Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 3494273 times)

six-car-habit

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5550 on: December 05, 2019, 11:46:22 PM »
This is about my friend. She and her husband are in a lot of debt. They have credit card debt, car loan debt, thousands in lawyer fees still unpaid...etc. They cannot afford the mortgage, and so the husband's family has been paying for their mortgage and monthly child support since the summer of 2018. They are apparently going to file the documents necessary to claim bankruptcy as soon as they can afford the trustee's $1,000 filing fee.

Despite their financial woes, they go out to eat (in nice, sit-in restaurants) every week. They went to Universal Orlando in December with their 3 kids, hired a professional photographer to take family Christmas photos, spent New Year's Eve in a fancy restaurant/bar located downtown in a high rise building overlooking the city fireworks show, and spent their 2 year anniversary in an even fancier restaurant. It seems their spending habits have not changed despite their high debt.

Update on my friend's life: The husband's car was repossessed this summer because they stopped making payments on it. Mommy and Daddy came to the rescue. The husband was relieved of $50,000 worth of credit card debt thanks to filing for bankruptcy. They are still in 5 figures worth of debt. My friend contributes $100 per month to her baby's college fund that makes 2-3% in returns and doesn't make the minimum payments on her credit card, so she racks up fees and interest. I felt bad for her financial situation, so today I generously paid for her ticket to attend a holiday event to help her save $. Just a few hours later, I noticed on Instagram that she bought a giant, real Christmas tree, just like she did last year when they were >$70,000 in debt. What the f$&k. I want my money back.

 In your previous post you have them attending 4 major "events"  in the span of 2 months [ universal orlando, professional photos, new yrs eve dinner, anniversary dinner ]   -  I'm not sure why you would pay for a ticket for another "holiday event" a year later ??
   They don't need to be going to 'events'... your friend needs to be at home cooking up a great big pot of goulash to last for 2-3 meals.  You can support her by showing up with an ingredient for her goulash and talking with her, while helping cut vegetables and stirring the stew for a few hours.

Tabitha

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5551 on: December 06, 2019, 06:42:56 AM »

BiL passed away 8 years ago, when nephew was 20. Much upheaval and SiL has been on economic support since.  None of this family had any money sense, living in the moment.
Nephew had already lost his DrLic in his teens due to unpaid fines. Makes it difficult to find work in a city underserved by public transit. Weíd offered a few ways he could help us in return for funds to pay off a substantial chunk of the debt, but reasons.
On top of general lack of ambition, Nephew was hit hard by dadís death. Many reasons/excuses why not continuing in school, even when his employer at the time explained that lack of paper is why he stayed hourly instead of the continued job he wanted.
In some ways he is smart. Recently current Big Employer recognized him with a year-end bonus, large in proportion to current wages and not normally available to his level.
Does he pay off fines? He does not
Does he apply for employerís continuing education programs? Nope
Use some of the bonus money to pursue some other credentials? Nah
Pay off the high interest car loan that was all his live-in GF could qualify for? Please.
But heís very proud of the top-end gaming laptop and big screen TV he bought this week. Sigh.

Miss Piggy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5552 on: December 06, 2019, 07:13:30 AM »

BiL passed away 8 years ago, when nephew was 20. Much upheaval and SiL has been on economic support since.  None of this family had any money sense, living in the moment.
Nephew had already lost his DrLic in his teens due to unpaid fines. Makes it difficult to find work in a city underserved by public transit. Weíd offered a few ways he could help us in return for funds to pay off a substantial chunk of the debt, but reasons.
On top of general lack of ambition, Nephew was hit hard by dadís death. Many reasons/excuses why not continuing in school, even when his employer at the time explained that lack of paper is why he stayed hourly instead of the continued job he wanted.
In some ways he is smart. Recently current Big Employer recognized him with a year-end bonus, large in proportion to current wages and not normally available to his level.
Does he pay off fines? He does not
Does he apply for employerís continuing education programs? Nope
Use some of the bonus money to pursue some other credentials? Nah
Pay off the high interest car loan that was all his live-in GF could qualify for? Please.
But heís very proud of the top-end gaming laptop and big screen TV he bought this week. Sigh.

Sigh is right. :(

So he's still without a driver's license? For 10+ years? Just for fines? (Not for DUI, ect.?) Wow. That's some serious lack of motivation.

Tabitha

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5553 on: December 06, 2019, 07:45:26 PM »
Sigh is right. :(

So he's still without a driver's license? For 10+ years? Just for fines? (Not for DUI, ect.?) Wow. That's some serious lack of motivation.

It was >$750 in fines, surcharges, and ďdonít ignore the state feesĒ payable to The State of NY.  All due to speeding/parking. Zero DUI. I have determinedly not asked if interest was accumulating. As you say, lack of motivation. Venting here helps me keep my mouth shut elsewhere. Not my circus.

Yanisimo

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5554 on: December 10, 2019, 02:47:13 PM »
This is about my friend. She and her husband are in a lot of debt. They have credit card debt, car loan debt, thousands in lawyer fees still unpaid...etc. They cannot afford the mortgage, and so the husband's family has been paying for their mortgage and monthly child support since the summer of 2018. They are apparently going to file the documents necessary to claim bankruptcy as soon as they can afford the trustee's $1,000 filing fee.

Despite their financial woes, they go out to eat (in nice, sit-in restaurants) every week. They went to Universal Orlando in December with their 3 kids, hired a professional photographer to take family Christmas photos, spent New Year's Eve in a fancy restaurant/bar located downtown in a high rise building overlooking the city fireworks show, and spent their 2 year anniversary in an even fancier restaurant. It seems their spending habits have not changed despite their high debt.

Update on my friend's life: The husband's car was repossessed this summer because they stopped making payments on it. Mommy and Daddy came to the rescue. The husband was relieved of $50,000 worth of credit card debt thanks to filing for bankruptcy. They are still in 5 figures worth of debt. My friend contributes $100 per month to her baby's college fund that makes 2-3% in returns and doesn't make the minimum payments on her credit card, so she racks up fees and interest. I felt bad for her financial situation, so today I generously paid for her ticket to attend a holiday event to help her save $. Just a few hours later, I noticed on Instagram that she bought a giant, real Christmas tree, just like she did last year when they were >$70,000 in debt. What the f$&k. I want my money back.

 In your previous post you have them attending 4 major "events"  in the span of 2 months [ universal orlando, professional photos, new yrs eve dinner, anniversary dinner ]   -  I'm not sure why you would pay for a ticket for another "holiday event" a year later ??
   They don't need to be going to 'events'... your friend needs to be at home cooking up a great big pot of goulash to last for 2-3 meals.  You can support her by showing up with an ingredient for her goulash and talking with her, while helping cut vegetables and stirring the stew for a few hours.

I purchased a ticket for my friend to attend a Holiday Alumni event in hopes that she will network and find a better paying job. Unfortunately, I think my friend is a lost cause. I bought her the books Your Money or Your Life and The Simple Path to Wealth during the summer and I can tell she hasn't read them since she has not made changes to her lifestyle. So that was a waste of money on my end.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5555 on: December 10, 2019, 03:42:56 PM »
I purchased a ticket for my friend to attend a Holiday Alumni event in hopes that she will network and find a better paying job. Unfortunately, I think my friend is a lost cause. I bought her the books Your Money or Your Life and The Simple Path to Wealth during the summer and I can tell she hasn't read them since she has not made changes to her lifestyle. So that was a waste of money on my end.

No, not a waste.   You were a good friend.    Sometimes it takes people time to work thru their internal emotional issues before they can bring themselves to make the changes.    You planted a seed, it may still bear fruit.

Tass

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5556 on: December 10, 2019, 03:44:31 PM »
A gift has to be about your generosity, not the end result - you can't control what they do with it. Take comfort that you offered the best help you know, and accept that it's not in your power to determine the outcome.

onehair

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5557 on: December 18, 2019, 11:15:05 AM »
I got a new one from the ongoing saga at my house.  As you know I give my SO no money and I have made it policy for my son to give him none as well.  If my son wants to contribute to any household expenses he is welcome to either give me the money towards the bill (rent included) or obtain the item or pay the bill in question himself if given the account numbers.  He is attempting to save for his own place so he contributes groceries, toilet paper paper towels and occasionally chips in on the cable as well as handling his own expenses.  So he comes home last week to a handwritten note from my SO asking for $60 for his medicine. Yes he takes meds but I do not help due to being him scamming me as well as son once before.  Then he demands $100 for rent then after February $200 monthly via this same note.  We found this laughable since I am the one paying the rent at present.

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5558 on: December 18, 2019, 11:55:29 AM »
One, why are you even living with this person?

honeybbq

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5559 on: December 18, 2019, 12:26:51 PM »
I got a new one from the ongoing saga at my house.  As you know I give my SO no money and I have made it policy for my son to give him none as well.  If my son wants to contribute to any household expenses he is welcome to either give me the money towards the bill (rent included) or obtain the item or pay the bill in question himself if given the account numbers.  He is attempting to save for his own place so he contributes groceries, toilet paper paper towels and occasionally chips in on the cable as well as handling his own expenses.  So he comes home last week to a handwritten note from my SO asking for $60 for his medicine. Yes he takes meds but I do not help due to being him scamming me as well as son once before.  Then he demands $100 for rent then after February $200 monthly via this same note.  We found this laughable since I am the one paying the rent at present.

I think I missed the backstory on this. Is there a post here?

frugalecon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5560 on: December 18, 2019, 04:04:39 PM »
This is about my friend. She and her husband are in a lot of debt. They have credit card debt, car loan debt, thousands in lawyer fees still unpaid...etc. They cannot afford the mortgage, and so the husband's family has been paying for their mortgage and monthly child support since the summer of 2018. They are apparently going to file the documents necessary to claim bankruptcy as soon as they can afford the trustee's $1,000 filing fee.

Despite their financial woes, they go out to eat (in nice, sit-in restaurants) every week. They went to Universal Orlando in December with their 3 kids, hired a professional photographer to take family Christmas photos, spent New Year's Eve in a fancy restaurant/bar located downtown in a high rise building overlooking the city fireworks show, and spent their 2 year anniversary in an even fancier restaurant. It seems their spending habits have not changed despite their high debt.

Update on my friend's life: The husband's car was repossessed this summer because they stopped making payments on it. Mommy and Daddy came to the rescue. The husband was relieved of $50,000 worth of credit card debt thanks to filing for bankruptcy. They are still in 5 figures worth of debt. My friend contributes $100 per month to her baby's college fund that makes 2-3% in returns and doesn't make the minimum payments on her credit card, so she racks up fees and interest. I felt bad for her financial situation, so today I generously paid for her ticket to attend a holiday event to help her save $. Just a few hours later, I noticed on Instagram that she bought a giant, real Christmas tree, just like she did last year when they were >$70,000 in debt. What the f$&k. I want my money back.

 In your previous post you have them attending 4 major "events"  in the span of 2 months [ universal orlando, professional photos, new yrs eve dinner, anniversary dinner ]   -  I'm not sure why you would pay for a ticket for another "holiday event" a year later ??
   They don't need to be going to 'events'... your friend needs to be at home cooking up a great big pot of goulash to last for 2-3 meals.  You can support her by showing up with an ingredient for her goulash and talking with her, while helping cut vegetables and stirring the stew for a few hours.

I purchased a ticket for my friend to attend a Holiday Alumni event in hopes that she will network and find a better paying job. Unfortunately, I think my friend is a lost cause. I bought her the books Your Money or Your Life and The Simple Path to Wealth during the summer and I can tell she hasn't read them since she has not made changes to her lifestyle. So that was a waste of money on my end.

It sounds like a lot of other people are more concerned about your friendís situation than she is. Frankly, I wouldnít offer any assistance on the ďhopeĒ that she will somehow do something differently than past experience would suggest is likely.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5561 on: December 18, 2019, 07:22:11 PM »
I got a new one from the ongoing saga at my house.  As you know I give my SO no money and I have made it policy for my son to give him none as well.  If my son wants to contribute to any household expenses he is welcome to either give me the money towards the bill (rent included) or obtain the item or pay the bill in question himself if given the account numbers.  He is attempting to save for his own place so he contributes groceries, toilet paper paper towels and occasionally chips in on the cable as well as handling his own expenses.  So he comes home last week to a handwritten note from my SO asking for $60 for his medicine. Yes he takes meds but I do not help due to being him scamming me as well as son once before.  Then he demands $100 for rent then after February $200 monthly via this same note.  We found this laughable since I am the one paying the rent at present.

I think I missed the backstory on this. Is there a post here?

SO == Significant Other, right?  Like life partner / husband / wife / fiance / boyfriend / girlfriend.  Right?

Edited to add:  In other words, I'm confused, too...

onehair

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5562 on: December 20, 2019, 11:16:37 AM »
My apologies for not clarifying earlier the whole situation: Yes my SO is my husband.  This is the TL;DR version since the longer one is somewhere in the general forum under the topic At what point do you give up on a marriage?
Anyway here goes: My husband the Significant Other has never been into the FIRE thing.  I discovered it late and decided to do it for myself.  Over the course of our 15 year marriage he has made 3 major financial errors each time costing me serious money.  The 1st time he helped a friend get an apartment and said friend didn't pay the rent and got evicted. He used money he was supposed to pay our rent with.  I got mad and covered it thinking it was a one time error and he'd learn.  2nd time was during the government shutdown of 2013.  He didn't go back to work like the rest of us when it was over lying he was "going to be called soon".  Turned out due to some mistakes and a few other things at his job in federal law enforcement he was made to retire.  There is a 6 month gap on average between retiring and receiving your checks.  3rd time recently he decided to cosign for some friend with a car loan.  I have not seen this car ever.  He also got behind on his state taxes so the feds are garnishing his pension check.  Why didn't I leave before? Because of my son and his Crohns which delayed us while he got diagnosed and treated.  We had been evicted before back in 2000 (yes that WAS my fault but I swore to never be evicted again).  The child is grown now and working.

Update: Yes I intend on moving out once my son has signed a lease.  Then I will take the items important to me take my name off the lease and go into a place already prepared I am on my way.  I also will end up quitting McDonalds mainly due to the hours I work on the overnight shift and at that point I will no longer need the extra income to cover rent.
Yes Grim Squeaker due to previous discussions I realized I had become an enabler again...but I am taking action.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 01:13:57 PM by onehair »

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5563 on: December 20, 2019, 03:54:20 PM »
T hope you can divorce him with the least financial impact. If he tries to claim some of your future pension you can claim part of his.

Freedomin5

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5564 on: December 25, 2019, 03:37:28 AM »
Christmas is one of those times of the year when family gathers and I get updates on their poor financial decisions. This year I collected two gems.

One 14 year old told me he was interested in investing. All the family members were so proud of him and his adulting. So I asked what he invested in and he spewed out some mumbo jumbo about algorithms that he developed (from the comfort of his own bedroom) and stock evaluations and assets and liabilities and financial statements. And then he said based on his algorithms, his first investment was in Apple in October, which then promptly fell, at which point he freaked out about losing money and sold Apple. Face, meet palm.

He then asked me about my investing philosophy probably hoping to get some sophisticated investing insights, so I talked about boring old index funds and how our investments have consistently gone up over the past several years.

He then said he wanted to study business, and given that I graduated from one of the best business schools in Canada, I thought I had some insight. So I spewed out the names of a few top schools and he said those were the ones he was thinking of. So then I mentioned that he needed to make sure that his grades stayed above 90%, at which point he became kind of goggle-eyed and was like, you mean your high school average or just your final year? I was like, your high school average! And then he was like, you mean, in all your courses? Yes, pretty much! Seriously? If you can't even get straight As in grade 9, how do you expect to get them in grade 12 when the coursework is supposed to be MORE challenging?!


After dinner, it was time to open the gifts. I had decided to splurge this year and bought several jewellery pieces that were more expensive than normal, because I wanted to support the charity selling them. So our gifts to others cost a total of around $200 for 6 people. So then everyone started opening everyone else's gifts. One family member is on disability and working part time. She's on full-on EOC living rent-free and driving her parents' car. Oh, and she's 40. DH and I are kind of the black sheep/outcasts in the family, so my gifts from her consisted of a cheap candle and a perfume sample. That's not the interesting part though. The interesting part was the other gifts she gave, including a $350 Coach purse ("It's the real thing! It's real leather!"), a $150 strainer ("I bought the best brand, so it should last a long time"), a giant bag full of Sephora make up, and $200 in gift cards. When you add up everything, she must have spent over $1000. This person literally spends every cent she has. It's like she has no concept of delayed gratification or longer term planning. The extremely poor executive functioning skills she exhibits is actually quite fascinating, provided that I do not have to act as her case manager or intertwine my finances with hers in any way.


Freedomin5

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5565 on: December 25, 2019, 03:56:13 AM »
I have another one that made me laugh.

MIL is into investing and real estate but is not very good at it.  She recently bought a co-op apartment to provide EOC to her grown daughter. Over the holidays she was trying to convince me to also purchase a "newly renovated three bedroom unit" in the same building that had come on the market for $400K. The building was built in the 1950s and was in a lower middle class part of town. She said that the unit could be used as an investment and rented "with board approval" and that the management fees were "only $400/month".

I immediately had hesitations because co-ops are notoriously difficult to rent out and buildings from the 1950s are bound to have problems that require fixing and thus lots of money. Three-bedrooms are also not our target market because we don't have experience renting to young families. Plus it's never good to have a unit in the building in which this family lives because they may drop by on the tenants unannounced to "check on their unit" at any time.

So then I visited her daughter in their recently purchased apartment and found out that because of poor structural design, the building shifted in high winds which then caused giant cracks running the length of the wall. To fix the problem, management has been telling people to plaster over the cracks. Yes, as a permanant solution. Windows and panes were original to the building, and whoever was renovating and flipping the units was doing a shoddy job renovating, including incorrectly installing electrical outlets and the electrical panel and only half finishing baseboards that were out of sight.

The next time MIL brought up the apartment, I noncomittally murmured that we were not in a position to buy another investment unit at this time.

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5566 on: December 25, 2019, 01:14:02 PM »
One 14 year old told me he was interested in investing. All the family members were so proud of him and his adulting. So I asked what he invested in and he spewed out some mumbo jumbo about algorithms that he developed (from the comfort of his own bedroom) and stock evaluations and assets and liabilities and financial statements. And then he said based on his algorithms, his first investment was in Apple in October, which then promptly fell, at which point he freaked out about losing money and sold Apple. Face, meet palm.
...

I see a lot of potential for positive good in that story.  A 14 year old taking an interest in data analysis and I assume some type of mathematical modeling is 100% a great thing.  Second if he learns he cant beet the market while under 18 he will be way ahead of most all adults. 

Freedomin5

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5567 on: December 25, 2019, 01:15:38 PM »
One 14 year old told me he was interested in investing. All the family members were so proud of him and his adulting. So I asked what he invested in and he spewed out some mumbo jumbo about algorithms that he developed (from the comfort of his own bedroom) and stock evaluations and assets and liabilities and financial statements. And then he said based on his algorithms, his first investment was in Apple in October, which then promptly fell, at which point he freaked out about losing money and sold Apple. Face, meet palm.
...

I see a lot of potential for positive good in that story.  A 14 year old taking an interest in data analysis and I assume some type of mathematical modeling is 100% a great thing.  Second if he learns he cant beet the market while under 18 he will be way ahead of most all adults.

I totally agree. I still wish there were knowledgeable adults around him to walk him through the process. And at least it was only a few thousand dollars. Itís good he learned the lesson early.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5568 on: December 26, 2019, 11:26:15 AM »

After dinner, it was time to open the gifts. .... DH and I are kind of the black sheep/outcasts in the family, so my gifts from her consisted of a cheap candle and a perfume sample. That's not the interesting part though. The interesting part was the other gifts she gave, including a $350 Coach purse ("It's the real thing! It's real leather!"), a $150 strainer ("I bought the best brand, so it should last a long time"), a giant bag full of Sephora make up, and $200 in gift cards. .....This person literally spends every cent she has. It's like she has no concept of delayed gratification or longer term planning. The extremely poor executive functioning skills she exhibits is actually quite fascinating, provided that I do not have to act as her case manager or intertwine my finances with hers in any way.

To my read, you got the best gift of the bunch!  Maybe she knows that you would hate to get a $350 coach purse from her (or anyone..?) and chose something that you would not hate, a dollar store candle.. which otherwise, would be about perfect.   

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5569 on: December 26, 2019, 11:58:39 AM »
Quote
I used to do personal paperwork at work.
When I FIRE'd I was horrified to find I had to compare and renew insurances etc. IN MY OWN TIME!!!!!!!! Mu son asked me to research a new mortgage deal for him and I replied 'I'm not working anymore you know, I don't have time for that stuff'.

Some work from home. Some home from work.

Now that I FIRED I may have to actually buy ink for my home printer.  It is just not fair. 

Sibley

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5570 on: December 26, 2019, 08:34:39 PM »
This is minor, but it's annoying. I need new cooking spoons and spatulas. Nothing fancy, I'm not a big cook or anything, I just need some basic wooden spoons and spatulas. I asked for them for Christmas.

My mom bought these Rubbermaid professional line spatulas. Like, um, you could have just gone to the grocery store and picked up a package of whatever they had. Which I will now have to do, because these things are ridiculous.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5571 on: December 26, 2019, 08:56:06 PM »
Quote
I used to do personal paperwork at work.
When I FIRE'd I was horrified to find I had to compare and renew insurances etc. IN MY OWN TIME!!!!!!!! Mu son asked me to research a new mortgage deal for him and I replied 'I'm not working anymore you know, I don't have time for that stuff'.

Some work from home. Some home from work.

Now that I FIRED I may have to actually buy ink for my home printer.  It is just not fair.
You had a home printer before retiring? What kind of monster are you? I bet you're one of those sickos who buys their own pens too.

better late

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5572 on: December 26, 2019, 10:19:13 PM »

....
After dinner, it was time to open the gifts. I had decided to splurge this year and bought several jewellery pieces that were more expensive than normal, because I wanted to support the charity selling them. So our gifts to others cost a total of around $200 for 6 people. So then everyone started opening everyone else's gifts. One family member is on disability and working part time. She's on full-on EOC living rent-free and driving her parents' car. Oh, and she's 40. DH and I are kind of the black sheep/outcasts in the family, so my gifts from her consisted of a cheap candle and a perfume sample. That's not the interesting part though. The interesting part was the other gifts she gave, including a $350 Coach purse ("It's the real thing! It's real leather!"), a $150 strainer ("I bought the best brand, so it should last a long time"), a giant bag full of Sephora make up, and $200 in gift cards. When you add up everything, she must have spent over $1000. This person literally spends every cent she has. It's like she has no concept of delayed gratification or longer term planning. The extremely poor executive functioning skills she exhibits is actually quite fascinating, provided that I do not have to act as her case manager or intertwine my finances with hers in any way.

How did the recipients of those expensive gifts react when they opened a gift they (likely?) knew the giver couldnít afford? That just sounds crazy stressful.

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5573 on: December 26, 2019, 10:41:01 PM »
This is minor, but it's annoying. I need new cooking spoons and spatulas. Nothing fancy, I'm not a big cook or anything, I just need some basic wooden spoons and spatulas. I asked for them for Christmas.

My mom bought these Rubbermaid professional line spatulas. Like, um, you could have just gone to the grocery store and picked up a package of whatever they had. Which I will now have to do, because these things are ridiculous.

Wait, Iím lost. Whatís wrong with the rubbermade ones? What makes them ridiculous?

Goldielocks

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5574 on: December 27, 2019, 12:30:01 AM »
This is minor, but it's annoying. I need new cooking spoons and spatulas. Nothing fancy, I'm not a big cook or anything, I just need some basic wooden spoons and spatulas. I asked for them for Christmas.

My mom bought these Rubbermaid professional line spatulas. Like, um, you could have just gone to the grocery store and picked up a package of whatever they had. Which I will now have to do, because these things are ridiculous.

Wait, Iím lost. Whatís wrong with the rubbermade ones? What makes them ridiculous?
$25 each

ysette9

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5575 on: December 27, 2019, 03:23:44 AM »
If they last forever I am fine with that. What I donít like is when I got some kitchen utensils as a gift that were HUGE. A certain family member, much beloved, seems to think that bigger is always better. The spatulas i got were too big to wield and too thick to slip under eggs.

Freedomin5

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5576 on: December 27, 2019, 03:24:41 AM »

....
After dinner, it was time to open the gifts. I had decided to splurge this year and bought several jewellery pieces that were more expensive than normal, because I wanted to support the charity selling them. So our gifts to others cost a total of around $200 for 6 people. So then everyone started opening everyone else's gifts. One family member is on disability and working part time. She's on full-on EOC living rent-free and driving her parents' car. Oh, and she's 40. DH and I are kind of the black sheep/outcasts in the family, so my gifts from her consisted of a cheap candle and a perfume sample. That's not the interesting part though. The interesting part was the other gifts she gave, including a $350 Coach purse ("It's the real thing! It's real leather!"), a $150 strainer ("I bought the best brand, so it should last a long time"), a giant bag full of Sephora make up, and $200 in gift cards. When you add up everything, she must have spent over $1000. This person literally spends every cent she has. It's like she has no concept of delayed gratification or longer term planning. The extremely poor executive functioning skills she exhibits is actually quite fascinating, provided that I do not have to act as her case manager or intertwine my finances with hers in any way.

How did the recipients of those expensive gifts react when they opened a gift they (likely?) knew the giver couldnít afford? That just sounds crazy stressful.

The receiver of the gift cards smiled wanly and said thank you and murmured niceties about how the gift was thoughtful. Sheís an environmentally conscious type who tries to be careful with money. The receivers of the other gifts? Oh my god! Thank you SOOOO much! Itís exactly what I wanted! Iíve been asking my mom to buy me one. This is AWESOME! Iím definitely going to use it! Theyíre as shortsighted and spendy as the giver.

Freedomin5

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5577 on: December 27, 2019, 03:32:36 AM »

After dinner, it was time to open the gifts. .... DH and I are kind of the black sheep/outcasts in the family, so my gifts from her consisted of a cheap candle and a perfume sample. That's not the interesting part though. The interesting part was the other gifts she gave, including a $350 Coach purse ("It's the real thing! It's real leather!"), a $150 strainer ("I bought the best brand, so it should last a long time"), a giant bag full of Sephora make up, and $200 in gift cards. .....This person literally spends every cent she has. It's like she has no concept of delayed gratification or longer term planning. The extremely poor executive functioning skills she exhibits is actually quite fascinating, provided that I do not have to act as her case manager or intertwine my finances with hers in any way.

To my read, you got the best gift of the bunch!  Maybe she knows that you would hate to get a $350 coach purse from her (or anyone..?) and chose something that you would not hate, a dollar store candle.. which otherwise, would be about perfect.

I like Coach purses. I have a castoff from a multi-millionaire friend who was cleaning out her closet. Youíre right though; I would hate to get one from this poor family member though. It would make me feel beholden to her. It would also make me angry that she is spending money on these kinds of gifts for me and then asking her parents for money to buy food and pay school-related expenses for her child.

I would like dollar store candles too except this one has a cheap scent and I recently learned how to make soy candles and sourced Jo Malone scents, so now I can make my own Jo Malone copycat candles in beautiful scents for less than a dollar. The candle was a good gift though because i didnít feel so bad immediately putting it in the donation pile when I got home.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5578 on: December 27, 2019, 06:00:20 AM »
My FIL is a hardcore hoarder.  Just like you see on the tv shows.

My BIL visited last week from out of town and told me that his dad (my FIL) asked him to help my FIL develop a plan for retirement. My FIL is 60 years old.

My BIL sits with his dad (my FIL) to go over finances.  My FIL has $450k sitting in a savings account.  He just inherited this money last year so he hasn't spent it yet.  He also had a $100k annuity he just opened.  My FIL had no information on the annuity, not even the name of the financial institution he opened the annuity with.

FIL owns 6 white work vans.  He doesnt have a business or a reason to own these.  He simply fills them with junk and parks them around town.  Be pays over $1200 a month in car insurance.  He also owns 4 storage units all filled with junk.  He gives over $500 a month to his girlfriend.  He also spends thousands a month buying expensive tools and construction equipment for his hoard.  FIL makes approximately $30k a year.  He also had 10 credit cards, most of them maxed out.

BIL told his dad (my FIL) that any retirement plan needed to begin with the clearing and liquidation of the hoard.  FIL refuses and also refuses professional help.  At the rate he's going through his money, we believe he will spend all of his inheritance within 5 years.

Not sure how he plans to to retire.  Also don't know if FIL expects us to take care of him once he's broke.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2019, 06:36:26 AM by GatorNation »

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5579 on: December 27, 2019, 06:59:12 AM »
Quote
I used to do personal paperwork at work.
When I FIRE'd I was horrified to find I had to compare and renew insurances etc. IN MY OWN TIME!!!!!!!! Mu son asked me to research a new mortgage deal for him and I replied 'I'm not working anymore you know, I don't have time for that stuff'.

Some work from home. Some home from work.

Now that I FIRED I may have to actually buy ink for my home printer.  It is just not fair.
You had a home printer before retiring? What kind of monster are you? I bet you're one of those sickos who buys their own pens too.

I am only on the 3rd step in my Post-it note recovery program but will ask my sponsor if it is OK to admit I have a printer problem too.

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5580 on: December 27, 2019, 07:15:35 AM »
If they last forever I am fine with that. What I donít like is when I got some kitchen utensils as a gift that were HUGE. A certain family member, much beloved, seems to think that bigger is always better. The spatulas i got were too big to wield and too thick to slip under eggs.



Go big or go home :-)

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5581 on: December 27, 2019, 07:39:02 AM »
This is minor, but it's annoying. I need new cooking spoons and spatulas. Nothing fancy, I'm not a big cook or anything, I just need some basic wooden spoons and spatulas. I asked for them for Christmas.

My mom bought these Rubbermaid professional line spatulas. Like, um, you could have just gone to the grocery store and picked up a package of whatever they had. Which I will now have to do, because these things are ridiculous.

Wait, Iím lost. Whatís wrong with the rubbermade ones? What makes them ridiculous?
$25 each

But that isn't ridiculous if they're good quality, and it isn't realistic based on a quick google search.

FWIW, good spatulas and turners - i.e. what you'd find in a restaurant or food-service kitchen - are some of the best and cheapest upgrades you can do for your kitchen. In my opinion, anyways.

DadJokes

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5582 on: December 27, 2019, 09:01:16 AM »
My SIL just got a sous-vide. Apparently, all her friends have and love them, so it was necessary for her to "keep up with the Jones." My wife is a Food Network junkie and at least knew what it was. She wasn't aware that people actually used them in their houses.

The "Jones" that my SIL has for friends include some rich and famous people who make a heck of a lot more money than she and her husband make. It's painful to see just how much money she spends with the justification that "everyone out here has it."

joleran

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5583 on: December 27, 2019, 09:13:46 AM »
My SIL just got a sous-vide. Apparently, all her friends have and love them, so it was necessary for her to "keep up with the Jones." My wife is a Food Network junkie and at least knew what it was. She wasn't aware that people actually used them in their houses.

The "Jones" that my SIL has for friends include some rich and famous people who make a heck of a lot more money than she and her husband make. It's painful to see just how much money she spends with the justification that "everyone out here has it."

Sous vide is pretty neat though. The most perfect chicken/turkey/lean meats, eggs, and super thick steaks with no effort and a huge margin of timing error allowed.  It's only like $100 for a perfectly good device, less on sale.

Hunny156

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5584 on: December 27, 2019, 10:47:06 AM »
FIL is a former accountant with personality issues.  In the nearly 25 years I've been part of the family, he spent more time unemployed than not, eventually retiring at 62 b/c his UI was about to run out and no one would hire him.  He had a small 401K, which he blew through quickly; by not working much his entire career, his SSA checks were $1,100.  MIL hung on till 66 and got a $1,300 SSA check.  Her 401K went to buy a new mobile home in cash, so they could relocate from HCOL to LCOL area near us.  She sold her share of her Mom's home to her brother and netted almost $200K.

They could live well on their combined SSA checks in this area; lot rent for the mobile was only $400/mo, and it was in an over 55 community, so activities were fiscally conservative.  I suggested a lazy portfolio and explained the 4% drawdown, stressing that letting the money grow for a decade would greatly increase their disposable income when they would need it more.  They invested about 70% of it, leaving the rest in a savings account with a 0.25% interest rate.  I suggested a CD ladder, but nothing came of it.

Just over 2 years into MIL's retirement, she passed after a quick bout w/cancer.  While helping FIL with shutting down things in her name and claiming her higher SSA check, hubby & I discovered that they had squandered nearly all of the cash, plus all of their SSA income!  We realized this would add financial stress to FIL's situation, and suggested part time work or a roommate to help w/costs.  He's early 70's and still physically capable, just lazy.  His Mom is still alive, pushing the century mark; his Dad passed at 103, so it's possible that he could be alive for 30 more years, managing that small nest egg judiciously should be a high priority.  After what we saw on Christmas, it's clear that it's not.

FIL is panicking, b/c his bills keep going up.  Over the last 18 months, he's asked us to liquidate $30K from his investment accounts, b/c he doesn't know how.  Eyebrows were raised, but it's his money and his life, all we can do is advise.  The main reason for the panic?  He's "only" got $17K left!  Hubby attempted to ascertain what his total monthly bills are, but he could not provide details.  We suggested logging in to his accounts to appease him, see the total picture, and once again, remind him on the 4% drawdown rule.  SSA is $1,400, as long as he draws down $600/mo, he should still be OK.  Based on the $13K spent over the past 18 months, he's trending closer to $725/mo, not horrible, but perhaps call around to see if certain bills can be lowered?  Ask the neighbors what company they use to insure their homes, stuff like that.  Lots of nodding, but I don't expect any changes, although hubby is more hopeful.

While trying to ascertain what FIL's monthly spend is, he logs into the checking and savings account, and I realize that he's got $16K in the checking.  We once again suggest a higher interest rate account, and he agrees to transfer $13K into savings, but I could see resistance; he doesn't want to do it.  His monthly bills in the past month or two are about $2,100, so $3K is an ample cushion.  I try to explain how this will help him earn some extra cash, and he could log in monthly to make sure he's got enough in checking to cover everything, even suggest setting up an auto transfer from savings to checking on the same day as SSA hits, so he can manage from a monthly cashflow perspective.  I show him our account, and how we manage our bills based upon our paychecks, and he says he doesn't get a paycheck.  We tell him yes, you do, your SSA is your "paycheck" for this example, but again, I can see him shaking his head no and it's pretty clear that he wants to just continue spending whatever he needs, and not actually ensure he's staying within his budget.

He keeps bringing up more issues he has, like he thinks all the accounts are in his wife's name, and we explain that he needs to change the ownership, but it's more likely that the bank will want to set up new accounts, and this stresses him too, b/c now he has to change the direct deposit on his SSA.  OK, let's login to your SSA and see how that would work; hubby offers to take a day from work to go w/him to the SSA office and the bank as I show him things that he can easily do online or over the phone.  I also take a look at the pdf of the bank statements, and it turns out that his name is on all the accounts, so that's great, but I then notice he's got a ton of other accounts with $40 here and $12 there, that aren't showing up online, so I suggest closing those and keeping things simple.  As I'm cross referencing the account numbers, he decides that he's tired, it's late, he hates driving in the dark, etc.  OK, no problem, perhaps next time you want help w/these things, you let us know in advance and we can set up a day to look things over?  He concedes that would be better, but again, I sense a level of anger in the frustration.  He's got bladder issues, so I suggest that while he uses the bathroom before taking the drive home, I'll print out the statements w/the account numbers, and I highlight which accounts to keep, which to close, and the toll free number of the bank.  He's certain they want him to come in, so now he's gotta do that too!  I suggest calling all these places first, b/c they probably can do a lot over the phone, and then he will know for sure what needs an in-person visit, and what documentation might be needed, so he won't need to make multiple trips.

We see him out the door, and he continues to make excuses; hubby shuts him down by suggesting he can sleep at our house for the night.  He doesn't want to sleep on the blow up bed.  OK, fine, hubby offers to get him a room at a local hotel; he turns that down too, all the while continuing to engage at the foot of the driveway.  It's not productive, and I point out we can discuss at a later date, when it's not dark out and he's not tired.  He leaves, and I note to hubby that we answered a myriad of questions that HE posed to us, in the course of 90 minutes, so it wasn't like we had spent half the day on it.  Hubby doesn't understand either; his Dad literally does nothing but watch TV all day, and he came to our house in early afternoon, we took him to a movie and then to a Chinese restaurant, so nothing involving endurance.

The next morning, I wake up and recall that when MIL died, there still was some cash in that savings account, which we didn't account for the night before.  Uh oh, that means his monthly burn rate is higher than we were seeing; there haven't been any major expenses, as Hubby and his brother split the funeral costs, so FIL didn't use any $$ for that.  I decide to quickly login to his account and check what the amount was in savings when she passed; looks like another $10K wasn't accounted for, that's a problem; he's burning over $1,200/mo in addition to his SSA.  As I'm about to logout, I notice that the savings account balance has dropped overnight as well!  Sure enough, FIL wasn't too tired to login to his account when he got home, and transfer half the money right back into checking.  To me, this looks like an act of defiance; lots of nodding in agreement and understanding the need to keep an eye on his monthly spend, but he's just not going to do it.  Fine, I'm done!  I know hubby has been concerned, b/c he plans to RE in 15 months, and our plans do NOT include financing his Dad when he screws up and runs out of money.  Hubby feels a sense of obligation and guilt, even though he has seen a lifetime of bad financial decisions by his parents.  So when hubby woke up, I told him about the transfer of funds, and suggested that he not go out of his way to help his Dad clean up his accounts or feel guilty about this anymore. I told him, I'm not wasting my time on this anymore; it's obvious that the advice is being ignored, so let him do what he wants, and if he does run out of money, he can figure it out on his own.  Still, I feel bad for hubby; that's easier said than done.  We just have to keep reminding ourselves:

Choices have consequences.
Some people figure that out the easy way.
Some people need to learn that the hard way.
Some people refuse to learn the lesson even when life rubs their nose in it.

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5585 on: December 27, 2019, 11:33:57 AM »
~snip~  sous vide talk  ~snip~

I heard a lot about these and checked out what the deal was some time back.  When I saw the wattage they take I realized that using one for the very long time required to produce food felt akin to turning on a hair dryer and letting it run for many, many hours.  These things are 1000W vs 250W for a crock pot.  Just doesn't seem worth it.  Am I thinking about this wrong? 

OK, going back to read Hunny's post. 

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5586 on: December 27, 2019, 11:43:29 AM »
Choices have consequences.
Some people figure that out the easy way.
Some people need to learn that the hard way.
Some people refuse to learn the lesson even when life rubs their nose in it.

I agree with you completely.  Your FIL appears to solidly be in the last category.

I feel for your spouse having to deal with it.   The feelings of guilt are real.  The fact that they aren't justified by anything your spouse has done doesn't really matter.

We were lucky that our parents didn't need financial help at all. 

But we both know what it's like to have to set strong, firm boundaries on our parent's misbehavior and harshly remind them not to cross those boundaries.
It's not pleasant.  It's not fun.   But it **is** necessary at times.

Best of luck to you both.   Give your spouse a bit more time to come to terms with it.   If need be, work a few more months and set that money aside for true FIL emergencies.   2 to 6 months isn't that much time and it gives a real internal boundary to the amount of help you're willing to give.

If the trailer isn't paid for in full, that would be a simple goal.  That way, he doesn't end up without a place to stay (assuming the trailer can be moved if the trailer park gets sold and shut down).

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5587 on: December 27, 2019, 11:44:07 AM »
... To me, this looks like an act of defiance; lots of nodding in agreement and understanding the need to keep an eye on his monthly spend, but he's just not going to do it.  Fine, I'm done!  I know hubby has been concerned, b/c he plans to RE in 15 months, and our plans do NOT include financing his Dad when he screws up and runs out of money.  Hubby feels a sense of obligation and guilt, even though he has seen a lifetime of bad financial decisions by his parents.  So when hubby woke up, I told him about the transfer of funds, and suggested that he not go out of his way to help his Dad clean up his accounts or feel guilty about this anymore. I told him, I'm not wasting my time on this anymore; it's obvious that the advice is being ignored, so let him do what he wants, and if he does run out of money, he can figure it out on his own.

I have a wise relative who sums it up thus: "You can't care about someone else's problems more than they do."

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5588 on: December 27, 2019, 12:01:35 PM »
Fortunately he expressed disdain for sleeping on the blow up mattress.  If he loses his home that should be all that remains available if he continues with this reckless attitude.  As you and others note, you just can't fix some things. 

Wrenchturner

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5589 on: December 27, 2019, 12:14:22 PM »
~snip~  sous vide talk  ~snip~

I heard a lot about these and checked out what the deal was some time back.  When I saw the wattage they take I realized that using one for the very long time required to produce food felt akin to turning on a hair dryer and letting it run for many, many hours.  These things are 1000W vs 250W for a crock pot.  Just doesn't seem worth it.  Am I thinking about this wrong? 

OK, going back to read Hunny's post.

"Waste heat" within the confines of a house in the winter when you're heating it isn't wasted.  The only loss is the difference in cost between heating your house with electricity and heating your house with natural gas.

The exception would be running a heater in a room that is pulling air out; eg using a hair dryer for a long time in a bathroom with the exhaust fan on.

shuffler

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5590 on: December 27, 2019, 12:15:14 PM »
~snip~  sous vide talk  ~snip~

These things are 1000W vs 250W for a crock pot.  Just doesn't seem worth it.  Am I thinking about this wrong? 
It may draw that wattage initially when bringing the water up to temp, but energy consumption will be much lower for the duration of the cook while simply maintaining the temp.  (So it's rather *unlike* a hair dryer, which would draw the same wattage the entire time it's turned on.)

It also gets better (more efficient) when you insulate the bath, which you'd want to do anyway to reduce water loss.

Here's an old-ish article:  https://www.amazingfoodmadeeasy.com/info/modernist-cooking-blog/more/how-much-energy-does-sous-vide-use

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5591 on: December 27, 2019, 12:28:40 PM »
~snip~  sous vide talk  ~snip~

I heard a lot about these and checked out what the deal was some time back.  When I saw the wattage they take I realized that using one for the very long time required to produce food felt akin to turning on a hair dryer and letting it run for many, many hours.  These things are 1000W vs 250W for a crock pot.  Just doesn't seem worth it.  Am I thinking about this wrong? 

OK, going back to read Hunny's post.

"Waste heat" within the confines of a house in the winter when you're heating it isn't wasted.  The only loss is the difference in cost between heating your house with electricity and heating your house with natural gas.

The exception would be running a heater in a room that is pulling air out; eg using a hair dryer for a long time in a bathroom with the exhaust fan on.

Fuel and thermal distribution matters though; running a space heater that uses a resistance element is far more costly than the whole-house gas furnace, and the fact the heat is ducted to the extents of the home with a furnace means it will run less than a device placed at a single point within the same walls.  Perhaps comfort vs. consumption is the way to put it-  the room with the space heater is going to be too hot while the far off bedroom is an icebox.  Eventually thermal mixing will even it out to equilibrium but not efficiently and as long as the space heater is on it is too hot in that room. 

Yes, it has to be correct that it won't be identical to simply running a blasting hair dryer for an extended period because 1000W of constant energy into food would cook it very quickly rather than the slow warm bath that makes the food yummy. 

Good conversation though. 

Hunny156

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5592 on: December 27, 2019, 12:28:57 PM »
Thanks everyone - sometimes I feel like I'm too sensitive, or I push too hard, so it's good to get some feedback that I wasn't wrong when I saw that transfer back into checking.

The trailer is fully paid for; MIL wanted to finance it, but we put our foot down on that one, for this very reason, and hubby is in sales, he negotiated a screaming good price for it b/c it was a cash sale.  We knew it was going to be hard enough for these two to live on a fixed income; adding a mortgage payment would have been disastrous.  When FIL was complaining about his lot rent going up $50/mo next month (to $575), I reminded him that the low cost elder apartment complexes in the area charge $1,100 for a small 1 Bed, 1 Bath unit, and they go up every year too, without fail.  He's got a 4 year old, high quality single wide 3 BR, 2 Ba unit, with a split floor plan, making it very easy to take on a roommate and only have to share the kitchen.  That too, he doesn't want to do.  Have it your way, then!

The mobile home park is thriving and actually doubling in size right now; it's not your typical place; this thing is gated and has a clubhouse, pool, gym, amenity center, community garden, etc.  Location is actually a hidden gem in proximity to our nearest big city; my concern there is that the lot rents will continue to go up b/c the land is becoming more valuable.  Moving it would be a $10K expense, that thing isn't going anywhere!

I completely understand Hubby's guilt, I've got a sibling somewhere who will come knocking when her options are live in her car or the homeless shelter, and she's adopted a scorched earth policy w/me, but she'll forget all about it once she's desperate enough.  In her case, she's done too much damage; I have to walk away, and I've made my peace w/it.  I did give hubby the option of working another year or so, just to cover his Dad, and his response was a quick, flat out no, which I completely understand, but it's still family, and I can't imagine we wouldn't at least provide groceries down the line, if it came to that.  But if I'm paying, I'm picking, and I don't shop at the most expensive grocer in the area like he does.

OtherJen

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5593 on: December 27, 2019, 12:44:36 PM »
I can't imagine we wouldn't at least provide groceries down the line, if it came to that.  But if I'm paying, I'm picking, and I don't shop at the most expensive grocer in the area like he does.

There's always the option to provide gift cards from the less expensive grocer. He may be more receptive to making his own choices within that constraint.

Otherwise, I think you've taken a realistic view of a very difficult situation.

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5594 on: December 27, 2019, 12:59:28 PM »
@Hunny156 it sounds like you are being wise and I hope your hubby shares your resolve when things get rough.  You both could immediately agree to never speak of it to your FIL again unless he is the one who initiates the conversation--that would be an obvious test of who cares about it the most.  If you agree with your hubby on that single point and why that hurdle is important then it will tell you a lot about what it will look like down the road.  You made ample offers to spend more time educating, instructing, and guiding, and you were rebuffed instantly with that movement of funds.  Don't take that lightly, it was on purpose.   

In the meantime when FIL starts with the whining and complaining about this-and-that you can practice the "cool, bummer, wow" communication method where you hear him but do not try to solve any problems for him.  Let him vent, say cool, bummer, or wow as appropriate, and practice releasing the misplaced guilt.  It is obvious FIL does not really want your help.

My sister is a nutter, too.  At age 19 she had decided to become the second wife of a 28YO abusive dude and I, at age 17, begged her to just come back home and I was certain mom and dad would welcome her back.  She said, "Listen LITTLE GIRL, I am making MY OWN DECISIONS now!!!"  So I have let her do exactly that and stopped trying to intervene in any way.  Her life is a mess with multiple marriages, idiot children, and no money.  But I will never forget that she chose it and made sure to tweak my nose while she did it.

I hope you and hubby remain on the same page, it sounds like things are at least headed in that direction.             

iris lily

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5595 on: December 27, 2019, 01:08:47 PM »
The Welfare Queen branch of my family experienced yet another premature death in this, thenHoliday Season.  And while sad, they didnít let this opportunity for grifting go by. The funeral notice suggested memorial donations  go to family of the deceased. Funeral was free, provided by a funeral home that does this for children, no need for $.

The dead childís obit listed many ďdaddiesĒ but no father was mentioned.

They are a tribe of strong, independent women! Yeah, that and their government checks keep their families afloat.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2019, 01:12:34 PM by iris lily »

Ann

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5596 on: December 27, 2019, 01:37:31 PM »

....
After dinner, it was time to open the gifts. I had decided to splurge this year and bought several jewellery pieces that were more expensive than normal, because I wanted to support the charity selling them. So our gifts to others cost a total of around $200 for 6 people. So then everyone started opening everyone else's gifts. One family member is on disability and working part time. She's on full-on EOC living rent-free and driving her parents' car. Oh, and she's 40. DH and I are kind of the black sheep/outcasts in the family, so my gifts from her consisted of a cheap candle and a perfume sample. That's not the interesting part though. The interesting part was the other gifts she gave, including a $350 Coach purse ("It's the real thing! It's real leather!"), a $150 strainer ("I bought the best brand, so it should last a long time"), a giant bag full of Sephora make up, and $200 in gift cards. When you add up everything, she must have spent over $1000. This person literally spends every cent she has. It's like she has no concept of delayed gratification or longer term planning. The extremely poor executive functioning skills she exhibits is actually quite fascinating, provided that I do not have to act as her case manager or intertwine my finances with hers in any way.

How did the recipients of those expensive gifts react when they opened a gift they (likely?) knew the giver couldnít afford? That just sounds crazy stressful.

The receiver of the gift cards smiled wanly and said thank you and murmured niceties about how the gift was thoughtful. Sheís an environmentally conscious type who tries to be careful with money. The receivers of the other gifts? Oh my god! Thank you SOOOO much! Itís exactly what I wanted! Iíve been asking my mom to buy me one. This is AWESOME! Iím definitely going to use it! Theyíre as shortsighted and spendy as the giver.

I genuinely wonder what the proper nuanced response would be.  One the one hand, you really donít want to encourage this person to put her own financial health at risk by buying presents in the future.  On the other hand, what about gracious and genuine ó even enthusiasticó appreciation?

If they paid attention (knew it was something you wanted) and sacrificed to get it for you, wouldnít it be condescending to judge them for making their own decision about how to handle their own finances?

I donít know.  I donít want to get extravagant gifts from people who would be strained to give them.  I mean, I kind of donít want extravagant gifts at all, but it may depend on the definition.  A gift over $25 vs  $100 vs $200 or >$500 .... I wouldnít want a coworker to go above $20 (even then) but a close financially stable relative it could be $100.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5597 on: December 27, 2019, 03:14:36 PM »
In the meantime when FIL starts with the whining and complaining about this-and-that you can practice the "cool, bummer, wow" communication method where you hear him but do not try to solve any problems for him.  Let him vent, say cool, bummer, or wow as appropriate, and practice releasing the misplaced guilt.  It is obvious FIL does not really want your help.
I had an enormous personal breakthrough when I realized that "Hmm." is a complete sentence. It's basically a mouth noise that can mean approval, agreement, sympathy, disapproval, or whatever. There are variations: "Mm," "Mmph", and others.

By uttering this syllable, I can satisfy my psychological and emotional need to say something. The urge to say something in response to another person's emotional core-dump is a comfort-giving, altruistic, social-relationship-affirming instinct that a lot of people have. The challenge, in my case, is to not go too far and assume even partial responsibility for the other adult's situation. Offering to help clean up the mess another adult created as a result of bad decision making-- "wiping butt" as I put it when I'm in a vulgar mood-- tends to result in me being treated like toilet paper. Since being used, discardedm and treated with contempt isn't an experience I like, I've learned to make sure I don't open my stupid mouth and give too much or accidentally accept responsibility for the other person's situation.

In the past, I've had a habit of making unwise offers or causing the other person to believe I support whatever dumbass decision got them into their self-inflicted trouble. My motives have been reasonably good-- I want to help the other person, relieve their pain, and put them on a more stable footing. Sadly, the other person frequently does not WANT to be on a stable footing, and generally when I put forth effort or make sacrifices to get them there, they jump right back into the quicksand. What I intend to be guidance and support comes across as controlling behavior. Furthermore, I've found that there are large numbers of people who are far better at creating disaster than I am at cleaning it up. So, asking if there's anything I can do is a particularly idiotic move and I found my life got a lot better when I stopped doing it.

SunnyDays

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5598 on: December 27, 2019, 04:10:11 PM »
Donít deprive others of the chance to learn life lessons!

Hunny156

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5599 on: December 27, 2019, 04:35:07 PM »
All really good points, not to consider, but to actually employ with FIL going forward.  I suspect this will be easier for me than hubby, partially b/c it's his Dad, and partially b/c the man is great at acting helpless, and hubby wants to help solve problems.

I think I'll focus on not getting involved in the financial piece going forward; that's where hubby and I can present a United front the most.  Car stuff, home stuff, etc, I'll probably just suggest checking Google for more info, and just change the subject.  Doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insanity!

I've sort of already implemented this policy in regards to family get togethers.  FIL has developed a habit of last minute cancellation of plans, citing not feeling well, but when hubby asks if he is going to a Dr, of course not.  These antics recently cost us some money, as I had to book non refundable hotel rooms for both of us, and ate the whole cost when he did exactly what I knew he would.  So, we stopped trying to set things up.  FIL reached out to us for this holiday; rather than setting up a traditional holiday at home, we just told him our plans and said he could tag along.  This time, it worked.  We'll see how it goes in the future.