Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 1785800 times)

Goldielocks

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5300 on: April 04, 2019, 05:05:34 PM »
What I forgot to mention in the original post......the SIL works (high up) in the mortgage industry.


But...  But...   She's had a mortgage interest tax deduction all these years.   You would think it would have made her rich!!! :)

<<hearts>>

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5301 on: April 04, 2019, 05:48:43 PM »
When I was in Poland the curtains were see through and no heavy curtains over them.

cloudsail

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5302 on: April 05, 2019, 03:33:27 PM »
New to the forums and enjoying this thread. 

Back in 2008 when the housing market bubble crashed, I mentioned to my SIL that I was refinancing our house to take advantage of the 4+% drop in rates.  She confessed she rather keep her almost 9% rate than show anyone at the bank her full financial picture.  Ten years later the DH and I are debt and mortgage free and planning to RE in a few years.  SIL who makes more than DH and I combined, and who is married to second wage earner, recently complained that she will never be able to retire because of all their bills.

Update on this relative:  My DH was speaking with the SIL last night and mentioned that he recently quit his job because it had become too physically demanding.  No he didn't have the next job lined up when he quit, but we've got a few months saved up in the emergency fund so he has time to get his medical issues straightened out and can be picky about what he applies for next. (He may have also mentioned that he's a little less than three years away from being able to RE anyways - I wasn't in the room for this call.) My DH reports that the SIL blew her top and said "some of us DON'T have our mortgage paid off".

What I forgot to mention in the original post......the SIL works (high up) in the mortgage industry.

She was in the mortgage industry and couldn't see the sense in financing from a terrible rate???

Goldielocks

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5303 on: April 05, 2019, 05:57:47 PM »
New to the forums and enjoying this thread. 

Back in 2008 when the housing market bubble crashed, I mentioned to my SIL that I was refinancing our house to take advantage of the 4+% drop in rates.  She confessed she rather keep her almost 9% rate than show anyone at the bank her full financial picture.  Ten years later the DH and I are debt and mortgage free and planning to RE in a few years.  SIL who makes more than DH and I combined, and who is married to second wage earner, recently complained that she will never be able to retire because of all their bills.

Update on this relative:  My DH was speaking with the SIL last night and mentioned that he recently quit his job because it had become too physically demanding.  No he didn't have the next job lined up when he quit, but we've got a few months saved up in the emergency fund so he has time to get his medical issues straightened out and can be picky about what he applies for next. (He may have also mentioned that he's a little less than three years away from being able to RE anyways - I wasn't in the room for this call.) My DH reports that the SIL blew her top and said "some of us DON'T have our mortgage paid off".

What I forgot to mention in the original post......the SIL works (high up) in the mortgage industry.

She was in the mortgage industry and couldn't see the sense in financing from a terrible rate???
I am guessing that their credit rating and finances were so bad by then that there was a real risk of losing her job if her employer saw it... given her role in finance where you have to be credit worthy to not considered to be an embezzlement risk..  (?)

And that most employees get a "sweatheart" deal with their employer for their own mortgage, so it never would occur to them to shop it elsewhere because you don't do that as an employee of X company.

Maenad

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5304 on: April 06, 2019, 06:15:52 AM »
New to the forums and enjoying this thread. 

Back in 2008 when the housing market bubble crashed, I mentioned to my SIL that I was refinancing our house to take advantage of the 4+% drop in rates.  She confessed she rather keep her almost 9% rate than show anyone at the bank her full financial picture.  Ten years later the DH and I are debt and mortgage free and planning to RE in a few years.  SIL who makes more than DH and I combined, and who is married to second wage earner, recently complained that she will never be able to retire because of all their bills.

Update on this relative:  My DH was speaking with the SIL last night and mentioned that he recently quit his job because it had become too physically demanding.  No he didn't have the next job lined up when he quit, but we've got a few months saved up in the emergency fund so he has time to get his medical issues straightened out and can be picky about what he applies for next. (He may have also mentioned that he's a little less than three years away from being able to RE anyways - I wasn't in the room for this call.) My DH reports that the SIL blew her top and said "some of us DON'T have our mortgage paid off".

What I forgot to mention in the original post......the SIL works (high up) in the mortgage industry.

She was in the mortgage industry and couldn't see the sense in financing from a terrible rate???
I am guessing that their credit rating and finances were so bad by then that there was a real risk of losing her job if her employer saw it... given her role in finance where you have to be credit worthy to not considered to be an embezzlement risk..  (?)

And that most employees get a "sweatheart" deal with their employer for their own mortgage, so it never would occur to them to shop it elsewhere because you don't do that as an employee of X company.

And her "sweetheart" deal was over 9%. Oof.

markbike528CBX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5305 on: April 06, 2019, 11:35:10 AM »
New to the forums and enjoying this thread. 

Back in 2008 when the housing market bubble crashed, I mentioned to my SIL that I was refinancing our house to take advantage of the 4+% drop in rates.  She confessed she rather keep her almost 9% rate than show anyone at the bank her full financial picture.  Ten years later the DH and I are debt and mortgage free and planning to RE in a few years.  SIL who makes more than DH and I combined, and who is married to second wage earner, recently complained that she will never be able to retire because of all their bills.

Update on this relative:  My DH was speaking with the SIL last night and mentioned that he recently quit his job because it had become too physically demanding.  No he didn't have the next job lined up when he quit, but we've got a few months saved up in the emergency fund so he has time to get his medical issues straightened out and can be picky about what he applies for next. (He may have also mentioned that he's a little less than three years away from being able to RE anyways - I wasn't in the room for this call.) My DH reports that the SIL blew her top and said "some of us DON'T have our mortgage paid off".

What I forgot to mention in the original post......the SIL works (high up) in the mortgage industry.
She was in the mortgage industry and couldn't see the sense in financing from a terrible rate???
I am guessing that their credit rating and finances were so bad by then that there was a real risk of losing her job if her employer saw it... given her role in finance where you have to be credit worthy to not considered to be an embezzlement risk..  (?)

And that most employees get a "sweatheart" deal with their employer for their own mortgage, so it never would occur to them to shop it elsewhere because you don't do that as an employee of X company.

And her "sweetheart" deal was over 9%. Oof.
Well, the company did know one side of the finance equation.  Also, what better way to tie an employee down than with an albatross of debt?   Shades of the company store.  I wonder if the mortgage was tied to employment?

Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5306 on: April 08, 2019, 07:41:48 AM »
Learned this weekend from a relative: apparently wedding loans are <a thing people do>. (???????)

As in: 'my in-laws expect a style of wedding that runs +/- 60K, and are putting up 40K of that, so I'm going to take out a 20K loan because, since proposing a year and a half ago, we haven't been able to put aside any money in anticipation of this blessed event'. No word on how you're planning on paying off the 20K loan (that's roughly 50% of your take-home pay as a couple, mind - here's hoping your wedding guests are real generous, I guess?), and no hint of changing how you're celebrating said event to match the available 40K.

... no wonder they want cash presents.

(To be clear: their money, their life, their problems, their choices, and they're not whining to me or making it my business, so not really my business and I'm not actively judging - sometimes we all make iffy financial decisions because the finances are secondary to the relationships you're preserving, so, fine. I just can't imaging voluntarily digging a hole that big without a clear plan to dig a way back out, and it's scary to look at from the outside.)

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5307 on: April 08, 2019, 08:05:09 AM »
Learned this weekend from a relative: apparently wedding loans are <a thing people do>. (???????)

As in: 'my in-laws expect a style of wedding that runs +/- 60K, and are putting up 40K of that, so I'm going to take out a 20K loan because, since proposing a year and a half ago, we haven't been able to put aside any money in anticipation of this blessed event'. No word on how you're planning on paying off the 20K loan (that's roughly 50% of your take-home pay as a couple, mind - here's hoping your wedding guests are real generous, I guess?), and no hint of changing how you're celebrating said event to match the available 40K.

... no wonder they want cash presents.

(To be clear: their money, their life, their problems, their choices, and they're not whining to me or making it my business, so not really my business and I'm not actively judging - sometimes we all make iffy financial decisions because the finances are secondary to the relationships you're preserving, so, fine. I just can't imaging voluntarily digging a hole that big without a clear plan to dig a way back out, and it's scary to look at from the outside.)

Wow.   That's some special stupid.

They make $40k and they'll take out a loan for $20k to get married with?  Lordy!  That's stupid.

And the parents will spend $40k on this?   $40k could buy a house outright in my area.  It would need another $5k to $10k of work but a lot of that could be delayed a couple of years.

Boggles my mind.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5308 on: April 08, 2019, 08:20:51 AM »
I can't even imagine what a 60k wedding looks like. The most expensive wedding in my social circle that I know of was €15k and involved an actual castle for a venue, lots of guests, a horse drawn carriage and a very expensive dress. I thought that was a lot.

Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5309 on: April 08, 2019, 08:43:41 AM »
Well, lots of guests (culturally expected) in a very high COL area (we're in Canada, but... Toronto would probably be comparable to Los Angeles, for costs?)

I'd personally lean towards learning to say 'no' to family expectatations and doing something that's in the realm of what we can afford (as in: what we HAVE money for, not an abstract idea of 'affordable' - concrete 'do we have the $' question), and let family relationships deal (or not), but that also means accepting the fall-out of family relationships that don't recover for whatever reason. But I'm also better at being a brick wall of no than the average person, so... *shrugs* Not actively judging, but I'm quite pleased I'm not in that situation, it looks anxiety-inducing in the extreme. Here's hoping their culturally-expected guests are culturally-mandated-to-be-generous, I suppose!
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 08:45:42 AM by Kitsune »

Hula Hoop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5310 on: April 08, 2019, 09:10:38 AM »
I'm guessing that maybe they are Indian immigrants and this is an Indian wedding we're talking about?  I have friends who are Indian immigrants and their families expected them to invite hundreds of people.  It was crazy expensive and all about keeping up with the Joneses.

The most fun Indian wedding I've been to was between a friend who is an Indian immigrant in the US and another friend who is not Indian and was born and bred in the US.  Even though she is white, the bride wore a beautiful sari for the wedding, which her future mother in law bought in India for surprisingly little considering how stunning it was.  The groom wore traditional Indian attire and a turban.  The wedding was performed by an Episcopalian minister (bride was Episcopalian, groom non-practicing Hindu - family not that religious) and they had a Hindu blessing later during a trip to India.  The food was catered from an Indian restaurant and the we danced the night away to Bollywood music.  The bride put her foot down about costs so they had fewer than 100 guests.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5311 on: April 08, 2019, 09:19:38 AM »
I have a friend from a culture where 600+ guests is the norm, but funny enough the weddings in her family are usually not that expensive. There are several very large, affordable venues in our area that specifically target these weddings, they are not that expensive and are already completely decorated. All the food for all of these guests is cooked by aunts and sisters and neighbours and the gifts are very generous. The big downside is that she's basically catering someone else's wedding for free once a month and isn't planning to get married herself (which is taboo in her culture).

We avoided our family's expectations by not getting married at all. We plan to elope some time in the future and expect some angry relatives when it happens, but at the same time no one is still expecting a wedding and I know they will be really happy that I'm finally wearing a ring. I'm just so glad I didn't grow up in my friend's family. It's so hard to find the balance between not offending your whole family (she loves them and wants a relationship with them) and living the life that you want to live.

Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5312 on: April 08, 2019, 09:34:34 AM »
Greek - I think she's a third or fourth generation immigrant? And a lot of it, culturally, seems to be about showing that the family CAN. Regardless of whether that's reflected in reality.

I mean, I come at this from the perspective of someone who made most of the food for our wedding (we hired someone to roast meat and did everything else ourselves - because there are no decent restaurants in a 20-mile radius), and had a fantastically fun country wedding for under 5K (and, y'know, feeding and boozing 130 people costs money, so 5K ain't the worst) - seriously, good time had by all. 60K just boggles. my. mind. Especially 60k that ain't there.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5313 on: April 10, 2019, 03:36:37 AM »
Greek - I think she's a third or fourth generation immigrant? And a lot of it, culturally, seems to be about showing that the family CAN. Regardless of whether that's reflected in reality.

Funnily enough, I've heard from a couple of Greek friends (ie born and grew up in Greece) that nowadays in Greece huge, traditional weddings are not the norm.  They were all shaking their heads at the movie "My big, fat Greek Wedding" as that is not really done nowadays in Greece.  In fact, a lot of people just live together and have kids and don't bother with a wedding at all.  But, as usual, immigrant communities preserve the social norms of a previous era.

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5314 on: April 10, 2019, 05:48:26 AM »
Greek - I think she's a third or fourth generation immigrant? And a lot of it, culturally, seems to be about showing that the family CAN. Regardless of whether that's reflected in reality.

Funnily enough, I've heard from a couple of Greek friends (ie born and grew up in Greece) that nowadays in Greece huge, traditional weddings are not the norm.  They were all shaking their heads at the movie "My big, fat Greek Wedding" as that is not really done nowadays in Greece.  In fact, a lot of people just live together and have kids and don't bother with a wedding at all.  But, as usual, immigrant communities preserve the social norms of a previous era.

Was that change brought on by the Greek government financial crisis, or was it already underway? 

Hula Hoop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5315 on: April 10, 2019, 07:43:57 AM »
Greek - I think she's a third or fourth generation immigrant? And a lot of it, culturally, seems to be about showing that the family CAN. Regardless of whether that's reflected in reality.

Funnily enough, I've heard from a couple of Greek friends (ie born and grew up in Greece) that nowadays in Greece huge, traditional weddings are not the norm.  They were all shaking their heads at the movie "My big, fat Greek Wedding" as that is not really done nowadays in Greece.  In fact, a lot of people just live together and have kids and don't bother with a wedding at all.  But, as usual, immigrant communities preserve the social norms of a previous era.

Was that change brought on by the Greek government financial crisis, or was it already underway?

I got the impression that it was already underway quite a long time ago in Athens and a bit more recently in the countryside.  My friend who grew up in Athens is in his late 40s, so his youth pre-dated the economic crisis.  He has two children with his Greek ex-partner but they never married.  Apparently this was/is pretty normal in Greece (just like here in Italy - about half my friends are not married to the fathers of their children).  My other Greek friend is a bit younger - about 35 - and he lives here in Italy with his Italian partner.  No plans to get married even though they own an apartment together.  He said that in the small town in Greece where he comes from this is pretty normal nowadays - he has never mentioned parental pressure to get married - and big weddings like in My Big Fat Greek Wedding would be quite retro.

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5316 on: April 10, 2019, 11:10:08 AM »
The norm in Poland is still 2-3 day weddings.  It was a lot more fun than weddings in the states.

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5317 on: April 10, 2019, 01:54:27 PM »
I'm guessing that maybe they are Indian immigrants and this is an Indian wedding we're talking about?  I have friends who are Indian immigrants and their families expected them to invite hundreds of people.  It was crazy expensive and all about keeping up with the Joneses.

The most fun Indian wedding I've been to was between a friend who is an Indian immigrant in the US and another friend who is not Indian and was born and bred in the US.  Even though she is white, the bride wore a beautiful sari for the wedding, which her future mother in law bought in India for surprisingly little considering how stunning it was.  The groom wore traditional Indian attire and a turban.  The wedding was performed by an Episcopalian minister (bride was Episcopalian, groom non-practicing Hindu - family not that religious) and they had a Hindu blessing later during a trip to India.  The food was catered from an Indian restaurant and the we danced the night away to Bollywood music.  The bride put her foot down about costs so they had fewer than 100 guests.
Prob one of my all time favorite weddings was Indian.  My coworker (from India) and his bride (second gen Indian American).  They had the whole shebang and it was GORGEOUS.  Once my boss told me that we weren't expected to pay attention for the whole 2+ hour ceremony.  The food was fantastic.  The saris...amazing.  Many of the guests needed to change out of the saris to their "party clothes" for the reception.  As we were staying at the hotel, I let them use our room and MAN the party dresses were just as good.  I love fabric and color.

Then a bunch of Pakistani-type techno dance music.  Good food, amazing fabrics, dance music, and friends??

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5318 on: April 11, 2019, 09:13:50 AM »
The norm in Poland is still 2-3 day weddings.  It was a lot more fun than weddings in the states.

A friend of mine married a Polish woman and they had the wedding in her hometown. I wasn't able to go but everyone told me it was one of the most fun weddings they'd ever been to.

My favorite wedding was a couple who invited all guests to the ceremony at the register office at 4.30 pm (usually in here only the close family and friends attend the civil ceremony itself). Then they hired off their favourite restaurant and we had a laid back party with really good food until 9 or 10 pm. No one was super tired or drunk and everyone got a chance to actually talk to the couple.

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5319 on: April 11, 2019, 11:01:57 AM »
My son married a Polish woman and they feed a different food course every hour. Lots of alcohol but no one is drunk. They played a lot of funny games and most join in.  Some of the games involved the married couple or the parents of both. Lots of traditional group dancing.   Polish people are super friendly and inclusive. A few people spoke English and would translate.

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5320 on: April 12, 2019, 02:09:51 PM »
I can't even imagine what a 60k wedding looks like. The most expensive wedding in my social circle that I know of was €15k and involved an actual castle for a venue, lots of guests, a horse drawn carriage and a very expensive dress. I thought that was a lot.

Don't forget fireworks. Must have fireworks.

gooki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5321 on: April 12, 2019, 07:03:08 PM »
And cryogenic frozen butterflies.

ender

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5322 on: April 14, 2019, 07:19:34 PM »
My son married a Polish woman and they feed a different food course every hour. Lots of alcohol but no one is drunk. They played a lot of funny games and most join in.  Some of the games involved the married couple or the parents of both. Lots of traditional group dancing.   Polish people are super friendly and inclusive. A few people spoke English and would translate.

We did a barn dance at our wedding (basically square dancing with other group dances too).

1000x better than the traditional DJ music thing that is so popular now. Seriously, does anyone actually like that type of dance?

A bunch of our relatives looked embarrassed they enjoyed themselves, it was hilarious. "I don't dance" followed by that smile and awkward "I'm actually having fun this is weird" after getting them dragged out. Plus, group dances are so much easier to convince people to join with :-)

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5323 on: April 15, 2019, 11:26:17 AM »
My son married a Polish woman and they feed a different food course every hour. Lots of alcohol but no one is drunk. They played a lot of funny games and most join in.  Some of the games involved the married couple or the parents of both. Lots of traditional group dancing.   Polish people are super friendly and inclusive. A few people spoke English and would translate.

We did a barn dance at our wedding (basically square dancing with other group dances too).

1000x better than the traditional DJ music thing that is so popular now. Seriously, does anyone actually like that type of dance?

A bunch of our relatives looked embarrassed they enjoyed themselves, it was hilarious. "I don't dance" followed by that smile and awkward "I'm actually having fun this is weird" after getting them dragged out. Plus, group dances are so much easier to convince people to join with :-)

Uh, me?

I liked that kind of dance in the mid-1990s when I got married too.  I love dancing! I embarrass the heck out of my kids if I'm ever dropping them at a school dance, or happen  to hear music and break out into dance.

Then again, I grew up having to do square dancing in gym class, and the hokey pokey or other line dances in high school, and pretty much grew to hate them.

Hated them so much I said "no hokey pokey, no chicken dance" to my DJ at my wedding. When my SIL asked for Macarena he said "sorry, bride says no line dances".  She begged, I was 3 glasses of wine in, and relented.

Then proceeded to hear the reggae version of Macarena 10x a day on our Caribbean honeymoon, sigh.

markbike528CBX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5324 on: April 15, 2019, 01:16:05 PM »
And cryogenic frozen butterflies.

Dammit, you made me look this up.   Not frozen, but the butterflies are a thing.  Now I can't unthink that thought.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/reasons-to-think-twice-about-releasing-butterflies-at-your-wedding_288800.html

I don't remember them on the list in the chapel in Vegas.

Inaya

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5325 on: April 15, 2019, 05:36:01 PM »
And cryogenic frozen butterflies.

Dammit, you made me look this up.   Not frozen, but the butterflies are a thing.  Now I can't unthink that thought.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/reasons-to-think-twice-about-releasing-butterflies-at-your-wedding_288800.html

I don't remember them on the list in the chapel in Vegas.


Nothing says a future of wedded bliss like a box of dead bugs.

PrairieBeardstache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5326 on: April 16, 2019, 10:23:02 AM »
I can't even imagine what a 60k wedding looks like. The most expensive wedding in my social circle that I know of was €15k and involved an actual castle for a venue, lots of guests, a horse drawn carriage and a very expensive dress. I thought that was a lot.

I know what it looks like: the same as one that costs $20k. Really, I couldn't tell a difference. And in my particular case, on top of the $60k wedding, my friends already had $300k in debt - they just bought two new cars (not cheap ones)!  I really struggle talking about anything remotely financial with them.

2Cent

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5327 on: April 18, 2019, 05:39:20 AM »

I can't even imagine what a 60k wedding looks like. The most expensive wedding in my social circle that I know of was €15k and involved an actual castle for a venue, lots of guests, a horse drawn carriage and a very expensive dress. I thought that was a lot.

I know what it looks like: the same as one that costs $20k. Really, I couldn't tell a difference. And in my particular case, on top of the $60k wedding, my friends already had $300k in debt - they just bought two new cars (not cheap ones)!  I really struggle talking about anything remotely financial with them.
Nothing says together forever like crippling debt. Can't get divorced if you can't afford a lawyer. ;-)

Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5328 on: April 18, 2019, 06:32:19 AM »

I can't even imagine what a 60k wedding looks like. The most expensive wedding in my social circle that I know of was €15k and involved an actual castle for a venue, lots of guests, a horse drawn carriage and a very expensive dress. I thought that was a lot.

I know what it looks like: the same as one that costs $20k. Really, I couldn't tell a difference. And in my particular case, on top of the $60k wedding, my friends already had $300k in debt - they just bought two new cars (not cheap ones)!  I really struggle talking about anything remotely financial with them.
Nothing says together forever like crippling debt. Can't get divorced if you can't afford a lawyer. ;-)

I know one guy who threw a party when he paid off his wedding the same week as he signed his divorce papers.

... 2 months before his second wedding.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5329 on: April 18, 2019, 07:32:34 AM »

I can't even imagine what a 60k wedding looks like. The most expensive wedding in my social circle that I know of was €15k and involved an actual castle for a venue, lots of guests, a horse drawn carriage and a very expensive dress. I thought that was a lot.

I know what it looks like: the same as one that costs $20k. Really, I couldn't tell a difference. And in my particular case, on top of the $60k wedding, my friends already had $300k in debt - they just bought two new cars (not cheap ones)!  I really struggle talking about anything remotely financial with them.
Nothing says together forever like crippling debt. Can't get divorced if you can't afford a lawyer. ;-)

In my mom's final years she had a lady come in and clean for her.   The lady got divorced from her husband.   But neither of them could afford to live alone so they continued to live together.

Damn, but if that isn't a motivation for getting your finances in order, I don't know what is.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5330 on: April 18, 2019, 07:38:25 AM »

I can't even imagine what a 60k wedding looks like. The most expensive wedding in my social circle that I know of was €15k and involved an actual castle for a venue, lots of guests, a horse drawn carriage and a very expensive dress. I thought that was a lot.

I know what it looks like: the same as one that costs $20k. Really, I couldn't tell a difference. And in my particular case, on top of the $60k wedding, my friends already had $300k in debt - they just bought two new cars (not cheap ones)!  I really struggle talking about anything remotely financial with them.
Nothing says together forever like crippling debt. Can't get divorced if you can't afford a lawyer. ;-)

I know one guy who threw a party when he paid off his wedding the same week as he signed his divorce papers.

... 2 months before his second wedding.

Wow: chin, meet floor. Any chance the second wedding was a more modest affair? Or did the new partner demand everything and more from the first one?

Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5331 on: April 18, 2019, 07:47:04 AM »

I can't even imagine what a 60k wedding looks like. The most expensive wedding in my social circle that I know of was €15k and involved an actual castle for a venue, lots of guests, a horse drawn carriage and a very expensive dress. I thought that was a lot.

I know what it looks like: the same as one that costs $20k. Really, I couldn't tell a difference. And in my particular case, on top of the $60k wedding, my friends already had $300k in debt - they just bought two new cars (not cheap ones)!  I really struggle talking about anything remotely financial with them.
Nothing says together forever like crippling debt. Can't get divorced if you can't afford a lawyer. ;-)

I know one guy who threw a party when he paid off his wedding the same week as he signed his divorce papers.

... 2 months before his second wedding.

Wow: chin, meet floor. Any chance the second wedding was a more modest affair? Or did the new partner demand everything and more from the first one?

The second wedding was... not what I would consider modest, but honestly was probably more reasonable. And they're still happily together 10 years later, so it wasn't a horrible idea overall.

cassafrass

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5332 on: April 18, 2019, 08:11:46 AM »
We avoided our family's expectations by not getting married at all. We plan to elope some time in the future and expect some angry relatives when it happens,

My husband and I did a semi-elopement. We told our parents and siblings we were planning on getting married on X day about a month in the future and they were invited if they were willing/able to come. We hired an officiant, walked out into some pretty nature and said our vows while our family stood around us. Then my FIL treated us all to a fancy dinner. It was a great day and I'm so glad we did it that way.

By telling our parents what was going on, we avoided hurt feelings. But we presented our plans in a take-it-or-leave-it way, as in: this is what we're doing and we'd love you to come, but we're not budging on how this day will go down. Maybe you could try something similar @Imma

PrairieBeardstache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5333 on: April 18, 2019, 08:28:09 AM »

I can't even imagine what a 60k wedding looks like. The most expensive wedding in my social circle that I know of was €15k and involved an actual castle for a venue, lots of guests, a horse drawn carriage and a very expensive dress. I thought that was a lot.

I know what it looks like: the same as one that costs $20k. Really, I couldn't tell a difference. And in my particular case, on top of the $60k wedding, my friends already had $300k in debt - they just bought two new cars (not cheap ones)!  I really struggle talking about anything remotely financial with them.
Nothing says together forever like crippling debt. Can't get divorced if you can't afford a lawyer. ;-)

I feel bad admitting this, but I don't know if it will last so I do expect to be offering him a place to stay to recover from his crippling debt should his marriage fail. I don't know that he'll ever be able to actually live a life that he wants but should he fall I can offer him a place to land.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5334 on: April 19, 2019, 04:59:16 AM »
We avoided our family's expectations by not getting married at all. We plan to elope some time in the future and expect some angry relatives when it happens,

My husband and I did a semi-elopement. We told our parents and siblings we were planning on getting married on X day about a month in the future and they were invited if they were willing/able to come. We hired an officiant, walked out into some pretty nature and said our vows while our family stood around us. Then my FIL treated us all to a fancy dinner. It was a great day and I'm so glad we did it that way.

By telling our parents what was going on, we avoided hurt feelings. But we presented our plans in a take-it-or-leave-it way, as in: this is what we're doing and we'd love you to come, but we're not budging on how this day will go down. Maybe you could try something similar @Imma

Yeah I wish. That sounds like my dream wedding: nothing fancy, but all our loved ones present.

Sadly in our case the family's expectations are more like "you can't invite this person, you must invite that person, or we're not attending". Both sets of parents are divorced and both sets of siblings also have had big fights. It's totally impossible to get all our close relatives together in one room. It hasn't happened in a very long time.

markbike528CBX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5335 on: April 19, 2019, 08:26:14 AM »
We avoided our family's expectations by not getting married at all. We plan to elope some time in the future and expect some angry relatives when it happens,

My husband and I did a semi-elopement. We told our parents and siblings we were planning on getting married on X day about a month in the future and they were invited if they were willing/able to come. We hired an officiant, walked out into some pretty nature and said our vows while our family stood around us. Then my FIL treated us all to a fancy dinner. It was a great day and I'm so glad we did it that way.

By telling our parents what was going on, we avoided hurt feelings. But we presented our plans in a take-it-or-leave-it way, as in: this is what we're doing and we'd love you to come, but we're not budging on how this day will go down. Maybe you could try something similar @Imma

Yeah I wish. That sounds like my dream wedding: nothing fancy, but all our loved ones present.

Sadly in our case the family's expectations are more like "you can't invite this person, you must invite that person, or we're not attending". Both sets of parents are divorced and both sets of siblings also have had big fights. It's totally impossible to get all our close relatives together in one room. It hasn't happened in a very long time.

A wedding is Your time ( unless someone else is paying).  The mentioned approach is precisely what you need to do to solve the attendance problem. Make the problem not yours, and it will sort itself out.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5336 on: April 19, 2019, 09:11:56 AM »
We avoided our family's expectations by not getting married at all. We plan to elope some time in the future and expect some angry relatives when it happens,

My husband and I did a semi-elopement. We told our parents and siblings we were planning on getting married on X day about a month in the future and they were invited if they were willing/able to come. We hired an officiant, walked out into some pretty nature and said our vows while our family stood around us. Then my FIL treated us all to a fancy dinner. It was a great day and I'm so glad we did it that way.

By telling our parents what was going on, we avoided hurt feelings. But we presented our plans in a take-it-or-leave-it way, as in: this is what we're doing and we'd love you to come, but we're not budging on how this day will go down. Maybe you could try something similar @Imma

Yeah I wish. That sounds like my dream wedding: nothing fancy, but all our loved ones present.

Sadly in our case the family's expectations are more like "you can't invite this person, you must invite that person, or we're not attending". Both sets of parents are divorced and both sets of siblings also have had big fights. It's totally impossible to get all our close relatives together in one room. It hasn't happened in a very long time.

I guess I'm just simple.  I don't put up with crap like that and I let them know it in no uncertain words.

Maenad

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5337 on: April 19, 2019, 09:23:00 AM »
There were... issues between my MIL and her sisters when DH and I got married. We "returned the awkwardness to sender" and told them that their interpersonal issues were their own to deal with, not ours. (Politely but firmly.)

I do highly recommend it. Trying to dance around who-hates-who is exhausting, and you'll never do it right. Their fights were not caused by you, and can't be fixed by you. Please take care of yourself and release yourself from this particular responsibility.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5338 on: April 19, 2019, 09:34:23 AM »
We are definitely not putting up with that kind of crap - that's why we aren't married yet and will elope in the future. Sadly, we know for a fact that none of out relatives will turn up if it hasn't been discussed beforehand who is attending and who isn't. We have tried the approach of inviting everyone and letting them deal with their own issues and on previous occasions that has just lead to more crap and no attendees. I'm not going to risk organising a wedding and not having anyone turn up. I'd much rather spend that money on eloping to a nice place and have our honeymoon there.

MishMash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5339 on: April 19, 2019, 11:19:58 AM »
Sounds like my husbands ex wife, she married husband number 3 (prior to age 30) 5 days after the divorce was finalized.  Husband three took out a six figure second mortgage (high of the market boom) paid for a huge wedding and a boat and truck.  Market turned 6 months later and they are so underwater on the mortgage they will never move.



I can't even imagine what a 60k wedding looks like. The most expensive wedding in my social circle that I know of was €15k and involved an actual castle for a venue, lots of guests, a horse drawn carriage and a very expensive dress. I thought that was a lot.

I know what it looks like: the same as one that costs $20k. Really, I couldn't tell a difference. And in my particular case, on top of the $60k wedding, my friends already had $300k in debt - they just bought two new cars (not cheap ones)!  I really struggle talking about anything remotely financial with them.
Nothing says together forever like crippling debt. Can't get divorced if you can't afford a lawyer. ;-)

I know one guy who threw a party when he paid off his wedding the same week as he signed his divorce papers.

... 2 months before his second wedding.

Wow: chin, meet floor. Any chance the second wedding was a more modest affair? Or did the new partner demand everything and more from the first one?

KathrinS

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5340 on: April 21, 2019, 07:55:08 AM »

His son (18) wants to be an ice hockey player, so obviously he needs all of the best, professional gear.  He needs new, expensive hockey sticks (over $100) every few weeks because when he loses, he smashes them on the ground in rage.

The daughter (20) has a boyfriend who regularly orders things from her phone and accounts, but then doesn't pay for them. Her online shopping accounts have repeatedly been blocked because of this, and my uncle's family is constantly paying off the boyfriend's debt. In addition, she has an online shopping addiction, with new things being delivered every week for the last 4-5 years.

So, I'm back with family over Easter and catching up with all the family gossip. This family runs a hotel and on the ground floor, there's a large hall that can hold 400 people for events. This hasn't been used in many years, but the father's cars are stored there and it serves as an entertainment room for the kids. There's  a TV and sofa, a full wall of mirrors and a stage. The son uses it to watch hockey matches, and the daughter for occasional parties. Recently it's come to light that the costs of running this hall (utilities, maintenance etc) is around $16 000 a year. I just ... don't even really know what to say.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5341 on: April 21, 2019, 11:55:50 AM »
We are definitely not putting up with that kind of crap - that's why we aren't married yet and will elope in the future. Sadly, we know for a fact that none of out relatives will turn up if it hasn't been discussed beforehand who is attending and who isn't. We have tried the approach of inviting everyone and letting them deal with their own issues and on previous occasions that has just lead to more crap and no attendees. I'm not going to risk organising a wedding and not having anyone turn up. I'd much rather spend that money on eloping to a nice place and have our honeymoon there.

In that situation, eloping sounds like a perfect solution.

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5342 on: April 21, 2019, 09:36:34 PM »
Had a conversation with a relative who expressed a strong desire to buy a pickup truck to go along with their SUV. They currently have two vehicles and one member of their marriage is no longer able to drive. They have zero projects, zero things to tow, nothing to carry in said pickup truck. They are late in life and really ought to just sell one of their vehicles b/c they never drive the second vehicle. Soaks up insurance and registration fees. Also complained about their limited parking. I just nodded along. I truly want to help them see their folly but I didn't know what to say.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 09:50:07 PM by Just Joe »

sapphail

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5343 on: April 21, 2019, 10:53:12 PM »

His son (18) wants to be an ice hockey player, so obviously he needs all of the best, professional gear.  He needs new, expensive hockey sticks (over $100) every few weeks because when he loses, he smashes them on the ground in rage.

The daughter (20) has a boyfriend who regularly orders things from her phone and accounts, but then doesn't pay for them. Her online shopping accounts have repeatedly been blocked because of this, and my uncle's family is constantly paying off the boyfriend's debt. In addition, she has an online shopping addiction, with new things being delivered every week for the last 4-5 years.

So, I'm back with family over Easter and catching up with all the family gossip. This family runs a hotel and on the ground floor, there's a large hall that can hold 400 people for events. This hasn't been used in many years, but the father's cars are stored there and it serves as an entertainment room for the kids. There's  a TV and sofa, a full wall of mirrors and a stage. The son uses it to watch hockey matches, and the daughter for occasional parties. Recently it's come to light that the costs of running this hall (utilities, maintenance etc) is around $16 000 a year. I just ... don't even really know what to say.

All of my what. So, so many questions here. First among them being 'Whyyyyyyyy?!'

six-car-habit

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5344 on: April 21, 2019, 11:03:00 PM »




So, I'm back with family over Easter and catching up with all the family gossip. This family runs a hotel and on the ground floor, there's a large hall that can hold 400 people for events. This hasn't been used in many years, but the father's cars are stored there and it serves as an entertainment room for the kids. There's  a TV and sofa, a full wall of mirrors and a stage. The son uses it to watch hockey matches, and the daughter for occasional parties. Recently it's come to light that the costs of running this hall (utilities, maintenance etc) is around $16 000 a year. I just ... don't even really know what to say.

 If its rated to hold 400 guests it must be pretty sizable.   In car terms, this sounds like a place that can hold 10 + vehicles, in safe, dry, warm inside storage. Plus+ a hang out space and probably plenty of room for air hockey and pinball machines, library corner , probably has large bathrooms, etc.     Must have a garage door [?]
   Bring down a microwave + electric griddle, plug in a fridge.  You've basically got a massive studio apartment + inside storage for 10 vehicles for $1300 a month. Build up some walls or partitions .  Sounds great actually.....
   Kind of strange with a hotel just above it though, and hopefuly hockey son doesn't make it a long time domain.  But i understand the dad storing his cars in it, haha.

KathrinS

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5345 on: April 22, 2019, 10:53:48 PM »




So, I'm back with family over Easter and catching up with all the family gossip. This family runs a hotel and on the ground floor, there's a large hall that can hold 400 people for events. This hasn't been used in many years, but the father's cars are stored there and it serves as an entertainment room for the kids. There's  a TV and sofa, a full wall of mirrors and a stage. The son uses it to watch hockey matches, and the daughter for occasional parties. Recently it's come to light that the costs of running this hall (utilities, maintenance etc) is around $16 000 a year. I just ... don't even really know what to say.

 If its rated to hold 400 guests it must be pretty sizable.   In car terms, this sounds like a place that can hold 10 + vehicles, in safe, dry, warm inside storage. Plus+ a hang out space and probably plenty of room for air hockey and pinball machines, library corner , probably has large bathrooms, etc.     Must have a garage door [?]
   Bring down a microwave + electric griddle, plug in a fridge.  You've basically got a massive studio apartment + inside storage for 10 vehicles for $1300 a month. Build up some walls or partitions .  Sounds great actually.....
   Kind of strange with a hotel just above it though, and hopefuly hockey son doesn't make it a long time domain.  But i understand the dad storing his cars in it, haha.

Well, when my grandparents managed it, the hotel used to also be a restaurant, so they used to hold the larger events in there. It also has a stage, so every year there would be theater shows and concerts. But ever since my uncle took over and changed it into just a hotel about 8 years ago, it hasn't been used. He just let his kids play in it and hold their parties. Just seems very decadent to me. Oh, and I forgot to mention that the son has a fully equipped fitness studio in there, as well. To himself, no hotel guests allowed.

It seems that it'll be under new management soon, so this all will stop. It'll probably start being used again for some of the things you suggested, or maybe rented out to a business. Would be a great space for exercise classes, for example.

ambimammular

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5346 on: April 28, 2019, 09:46:39 AM »
I love my brother but, damn, that guy can spend. And justify it too!

They've got two little kidlets and a nice house. And my bro needed a powerhouse of a truck. (Truely needs it for the business; hauls trailers through fields on a weekly basis.) But he bought one that was too big to fit in his garage. He has to park in the driveway.

So naturally, you've got to sell the house! And get one with a shop to hold the truck and camper. Sure, there is the new shop that he literally built last year on an acre of land that has been just fine for holding the camper until this point. And you could always park at the old shop which is just as large. Or even, park the work truck and camper outdoors. But what do I know.

BeautifulDay

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5347 on: April 29, 2019, 06:33:23 PM »
My niece is getting married.  There’s been some talk of getting married in Mexico.  But yesterday she decided to get married at a venue slightly closer to home. Not sure that this will help the wedding itself be cheaper.  But this will be cheaper for me and the time of year is better for me as well. So selfishly I was glad.

I told me brother I was glad of the change because the prior dates were a no go for my schedule. Brother proceeds to tell me how great the Mexico trip would have been with all these excursions he had planned for everyone, and anyway “Dad (our dad) will be paying for everything.” 

The fleecing of my elderly father absolutely pisses me off.

So asked my mom if dad was paying for the niece’s wedding. Mom says no, brother is remortgaging the house and business to pay for the wedding. Mom then says dad is just helping my brother with his business and not with the wedding.

So in other words, when brother defaults on the business loan dad will end up bailing him out. This is almost guaranteed to happen since brother is already relying on on dad to keep business going without the additional debt. One way or another dad pays for the wedding.

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5348 on: April 29, 2019, 07:08:48 PM »
BF, can you talk your parents out of this? I would hate to see your parents broke in their old age. We are in our 60’s and you cannot recover financially at this age.

BeautifulDay

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5349 on: April 29, 2019, 07:58:36 PM »
I’ve tried. I get nowhere with them.  They break my heart.