Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 3340696 times)

MrOnyx

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5200 on: February 13, 2019, 08:26:34 AM »
Guys, I've found it. The one short sentence that defines the pinnacle of Antimustachianism.

This statement, uttered by my sibling, was so profound that it shocked me deeply.

Grab yourself a nice hot drink (or something stronger), sit down, get comfy, and prepare yourselves for what you are about to read. I don't think you're ready for this, but here goes. What follows is the most philosophical thing I have ever heard, said in complete earnest with a twang of "well duh, it's pretty obvious" - the very same tone of voice you'd use to correct someone about the fact that 2+2 does indeed equal 4. Okay, ready?

"If you earn more money, you can spend more money."

No words. I just dropped my jaw and expressed how impressed I was with this gem in the most overboard mocking tone I could muster. I could add no more words to it; I just repeated the phrase back to them, sandwiched between two wow's.

I think we've done it, guys. This person has hit the nail on the head so concisely. We can improve no further.

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5201 on: February 13, 2019, 10:12:40 AM »
And more obvious logic to go with your statement - more stuff purchased means more cost to maintain, update and repair that stuff. Best to keep one's life simple if frugality is important.

MrOnyx

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5202 on: February 13, 2019, 10:59:02 AM »
And more obvious logic to go with your statement - more stuff purchased means more cost to maintain, update and repair that stuff. Best to keep one's life simple if frugality is important.

nonono we don't think that far ahead - it's all about earning the money so you can spend it! more spend is more happiness, right?

oh, /s in case that wasn't apparent

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5203 on: February 13, 2019, 12:44:34 PM »
Oh I read ya! ;)

Keep it coming...

frugalecon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5204 on: February 13, 2019, 01:46:09 PM »
Guys, I've found it. The one short sentence that defines the pinnacle of Antimustachianism.

This statement, uttered by my sibling, was so profound that it shocked me deeply.

Grab yourself a nice hot drink (or something stronger), sit down, get comfy, and prepare yourselves for what you are about to read. I don't think you're ready for this, but here goes. What follows is the most philosophical thing I have ever heard, said in complete earnest with a twang of "well duh, it's pretty obvious" - the very same tone of voice you'd use to correct someone about the fact that 2+2 does indeed equal 4. Okay, ready?

"If you earn more money, you can spend more money."

No words. I just dropped my jaw and expressed how impressed I was with this gem in the most overboard mocking tone I could muster. I could add no more words to it; I just repeated the phrase back to them, sandwiched between two wow's.

I think we've done it, guys. This person has hit the nail on the head so concisely. We can improve no further.

This reminds me of something that Morgan Housel wrote a while back: "When most people say they want to be a millionaire, what they really mean is 'I want to spend a million dollars,' which is literally the opposite of being a millionaire... A key use of wealth is using it to control your time and providing you with options. Financial assets on a balance sheet offer that. But they come at the direct expense of showing people how much wealth you have with material stuff."

Tass

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5205 on: February 13, 2019, 04:28:55 PM »
This reminds me of something that Morgan Housel wrote a while back: "When most people say they want to be a millionaire, what they really mean is 'I want to spend a million dollars,' which is literally the opposite of being a millionaire... A key use of wealth is using it to control your time and providing you with options. Financial assets on a balance sheet offer that. But they come at the direct expense of showing people how much wealth you have with material stuff."

This quote blew my mind when I first heard it, and I was already on the MMM train by then. Such a succinct description.

MrOnyx

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5206 on: February 14, 2019, 02:15:08 AM »
This reminds me of something that Morgan Housel wrote a while back: "When most people say they want to be a millionaire, what they really mean is 'I want to spend a million dollars,' which is literally the opposite of being a millionaire... A key use of wealth is using it to control your time and providing you with options. Financial assets on a balance sheet offer that. But they come at the direct expense of showing people how much wealth you have with material stuff."

Wow! I'm going to remember that one. Might even stick it in my signature to remind everyone who happens to look at the trash I write...

a286

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5207 on: February 18, 2019, 11:23:16 AM »
I can't handle it anymore; I have to talk about my cousin and his wife. We love them dearly, but it's hard not to compare as they are the same age as us (cousin is 5 months older than me, his wife is a month younger than me, and my DH is a year older than me). She is a preschool teacher and my cousin has some type of office job with some graphic design/marketing classes online (not totally sure, just know he went to community college for ~2 years with no degree at all, then a couple year later took these classes so I'm not sure if he transferred in cc classes and got a 4 year degree or not from this online university). They have mentioned they both have student loans though I don't know the amount. LCOL midwest area. "But ours is much nicer" is their typical line to justify things.

About this time last year, they found out they were expecting. During the previous ~6 months to finding out, in which they were semi-trying to start their family, we heard gems such as "We can afford rent so we could afford a mortgage, we just can't afford to save for a down payment; It's stupid to have to save for retirement now, I'd rather have that money and put it down on our student loans and just save a bunch for retirement when I'm 50; If I make an extra few hundred dollar payment to our student loans then I just don't have to pay them for a few months." Also throughout this time - they'd been living together in the same apartment for 5+ years, which was 30%-50% higher in rent than some comparable places (ex: their place 'was much nicer' ie it had 'nicer finishes' which meant dark cabinets/tan laminate counter tops in kitchen and bathrooms, vs all white like a place 3 blocks away that had 200sqft more and was over $300 less per month, but didn't have laundry in unit). Definitely their choice, but I know what DH and I would have done. Spontaneous trip to Europe through one of those Groupon deals - it was such a good deal! New car! Have tried every restaurant in town. Etc etc.

Since finding out they were expecting, they decided they needed to buy a house, trying to beat the end of their lease in June. In this area, you can easily buy a cute updated starter home that's 1000-1800sqft for $110k-$140k (you can also get these NOT updated for <$100k - that's what DH and I would have really done). They bought a $200k, 2400sqft home that was poorly flipped and has a strange layout. It's a tri level that had the kitchen and family room on one level, dining room and formal living room on the second, and bedrooms on the next level. At some point the garage was turned into a family room, and the old family room turned into an eat-in kitchen. My cousin's office is now in the old dining room area, but the formal living room is just empty minus stuff stacked in it since they moved. I think they overpaid since it isn't all usable - it was just slightly less than different layouts that size, and substantially more than the places that were 1500-2000sqft. And the flip was really bad - It sold at the beginning on March and was back on the market 3 weeks later for $70k more. And then it stayed on the market until their offer in June - in a market where most properties didn't even make it to their open house that weekend. I've picked up some things from my FIL on this stuff I didn't know before, but there were lots of things that even without that I was like wtf is going on here... Holes in the wall from pictures weren't filled before painting. Baseboard is all effed up. Kitchen cabinets don't line up with soffit. One cabinet couldn't have a door because there is an air duct in the way. Large awkward unnecessary platforms at the bottom of stairs, that are different heights. Super skinny bathroom door for no reason. Spots where flooring changes run at weird angles. Cousin's wife told me when they were debating an offer that she didn't think it was a good deal, her parents didn't think so, but my cousin and aunt thought it was. I visited about a month after they purchased it and was trying to be nice/positive, saying it was nice and would work well for them plus baby, etc. Cousin is all, eh it's okay, it's got all this weird stuff (though it was things that weren't really weird, not anything from my list). Cousin's wife is like it will be okay for 2-3 years before we upgrade.

Project list after purchase: Update half bath, add master closet because there wasn't one, fence in back yard, new furniture during Labor Day sales (bc you don't want to open a new credit card after buying a house for 0% financing on the furniture, you want to wait 3 months), new kitchen cabinets because they are gross and new kitchen floor at that time (waiting until Christmas/tax return money comes). Also DIYing most with her parents' help, but not knowing what they are doing or educating themselves on it beforehand.

Now, since moving in last July:
Projects I don't know the cost of: new washer/dryer, new flooring for laundry room, fence in back yard (DIY-looks bad...), opened up wall and put in homemade cabinet (now this was weird, there was a 3ftx7ft space closed in between new family and dining rooms, so they opened it and put the tv there), normal painting of rooms.
$500 to update half bath on main floor - paint/floor/new vanity
$900 for couch/tables/lamps for family room in July, financed - sorry my poor heart cannot take $65 a lamp for a plain lamp...
$3000 on new cabinets - exact same style/color, made some cabinets smaller so overall gain: one drawer (because one was false front), 1 upper cabinet, and 1 lower cabinet became more functional. But (do to DIYing/no knowledge) at additional costs of:
$??? Had to replace most drywall/insulation because mice had eaten it behind the cabinets
$??? Had to rewire the dishwasher unexpectedly
$??? Had to cut and replace water line to the fridge because it went through the cupboards
$??? Broke hot water pipe trying to remove lower cabinets
$1700 for a new countertop - the old one was installed incorrectly (bad flip - they cut into the drywall and studs to put it in) but they broke it trying to take it out because they just yanked and yanked (bad DIYers - I know that not everything that happened overall was avoidable, but some was if they had any clue, like the COUNTER)
$??? As planned they replaced kitchen floor - they tried to match the laminate in the dining are, not sure how that went

And then a week ago: We got a new fridge but can't hook it up yet because the outlet is on the side and new fridge is too big to use it, so we have to move the outlet and that's more $$ in drywall/electrical/grumble grumble.
Me: Oh no, that reminds me I didn't get to see the new counter installed (trying to be nice)
Them: Yeah, we still need to buy cabinet hardware. Anyways, here's our new fridge, now it matches!
Me: *looks up fridge on Lowe's as that's where most of their shopping has been* ACK THAT FRIDGE IS AT LEAST $2100 ON SALE!!!!

So over $7k later on the kitchen, we have a kitchen that has like 1 more cabinet of storage, no more functional than before, no more value added than before IMO, a new fridge even though there was nothing wrong with the old one and it matched already too. And they want to add an island (it's not big enough - they should have done a peninsula, that would work). And they're going to get all of this money back out in 2.5 years when they sell and upgrade. Oh yeah, and because the drywall was cut for the counter there is a big uneven gap all along between the counter and backsplash. And the soffit along the upper cabinets isn't straight but they didn't put the trim back up that hid that.

And they think we have no money because we live with my inlaws currently... no matter that we paid off student loans and vehicles, are putting away over $31k into retirement accounts, and are saving a downpayment. Their downpayment was gifted (and DH swears my cousin says they have no PMI, and we know they didn't save a dime of the downpayment). But we travel a decent bit (all on credit card points), so obviously we have no money...
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 11:25:59 AM by a286 »

Shivan

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5208 on: March 11, 2019, 11:27:13 AM »
Me to my Dad two years ago: "You're turning 66 and I found a great Social Security strategy for you. For every month you delay it, you won't get $1302 that month but you'd get an extra $13.40 for each future month. You can do this for 1 month or 48 months or anything in between. It's like buying an inflation-adjusted joint life annuity that pays 12%/year. That's much better than what an insurance company would give you. The break-even point is in 8 years and both you and Mom had parents that lived another 20 years at your age."

My Dad two years ago: "Huh? What? No, I want money while I'm young and I don't want to dip into my IRA with 1.5% interest."

My Dad today: "I scheduled a meeting with my insurance guy. I'm thinking about buying an annuity for the steady income stream. Would a 5% return be good?"

Andrew9141

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5209 on: March 17, 2019, 02:23:30 PM »
I've presented my parents with an automobile insurance plan that will cut their insurance costs nearly in half. They refuse to switch insurers because they have a well established relationship with their current provider.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5210 on: March 17, 2019, 03:09:26 PM »
I've presented my parents with an automobile insurance plan that will cut their insurance costs nearly in half. They refuse to switch insurers because they have a well established relationship with their current provider.

I hope you printed it out on paper to give to them. Unless it is some fly by night insurance company, they should think about it. Years ago our insurance kept going up and up and we never had a car accident or a claim on the house. I called to see 'what they could do' and our insurance agent of many, many years called me back and said NOPE couldn't reduce costs at all. OMG, I was furious! I said screw this and called AARP and after a lengthy process giving them all the information they needed, It turns out we saved something like $880 a year between car/house and umbrella policy plus the policy was enhanced from what we had. So, we immediately switched over. They lost a long time customer and I couldn't be happier! If nothing else, have them call current provider and see if they can match the cost of the insurance plan you found.

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5211 on: March 17, 2019, 05:17:30 PM »
Anyone ever tried one of those insurance agencies that represent several brands - and then can compare prices for you?

RWD

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5212 on: March 17, 2019, 06:34:47 PM »
Anyone ever tried one of those insurance agencies that represent several brands - and then can compare prices for you?
I tried one many years back. It was mostly worthless and then I got a ton of spam...

Freedomin5

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5213 on: March 17, 2019, 07:11:54 PM »
Anyone ever tried one of those insurance agencies that represent several brands - and then can compare prices for you?

Yes, it worked out for me, but then, I knew the owner.

merula

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5214 on: March 18, 2019, 08:43:35 AM »
Anyone ever tried one of those insurance agencies that represent several brands - and then can compare prices for you?

(Full disclosure, I work in insurance, for an insurance carrier that works primarily through independent agencies.)

These agencies are called "independent insurance agencies" because they are a completely separate business than the insurance carriers.

I have to imagine that the agent that Roadrunner53 called was one of the ones that represented only one company (Allstate, State Farm, Farmers, etc.), because an independent agent would've at least looked at the other carriers they represent to see if they can get you a better deal.

I'm a big believer in the independent agency system for a number of reasons:
  • You have someone else to do your comparison shopping for you.
  • You have someone else to help you if you have trouble with a claims process. (This happened to me in a theft claim a few years back where the adjuster was totally misunderstanding a clause about electronic equipment. He knew I worked in insurance but wouldn't listen to me that he was wrong, but my agent made some calls and straightened things out.
  • You have a recourse if your claim isn't covered at all, through agent's E&O. Basically, insurance agents carry insurance against their own screw-ups. For dependent agencies, this is pretty much limited to whether or not they got you the coverage selection you needed, but it gets to be much broader for independent agencies because part of their screw-ups can be choosing the wrong carrier for you. For example, let's say that you told your agent you needed coverage for your antique teapot collection. If you were with a dependent agent, they could be blamed if they didn't put that coverage on your policy, but not if the carrier didn't provide it at all. With an independent agency, if they suggest you go with Carrier A without disclosing that they only pay for replacement teapots rather than the full value of the collectibles the way Carrier B would, you could sue them for that omission.

My personal insurance is not through the company I work for, because my agent found me an insurance carrier that was willing to insure my car as a "pleasure vehicle" because I drive under 7,500 miles per year and don't use it for commuting. I've had this for 11 years now and even though I get competitive quotes almost every year (both through the agency and on my own), I cannot find anyone who is able to come within 20% of the premium I pay. Some carriers want me to install a tracking device in my car and say that I could get up to a 40% discount, but that's hard to justify because (1) I'd have to pay the increased premium for 6-12 months before being eligible for the discount and (2) there's no guarantee that I'm actually eligible for the 40% discount, because they don't disclose that.

TomTX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5215 on: March 18, 2019, 03:01:25 PM »
Anyone ever tried one of those insurance agencies that represent several brands - and then can compare prices for you?

Yep. I have used an independent agent for over 20 years now. I ask him to check prices with his roster brands every couple of years, which he does - we've switched several times for lower rates, always with a reputable company, though.

I've done independent checks several times, best I could do was match the rates he was getting me.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5216 on: March 19, 2019, 03:10:02 AM »
Merula, you are absolutely right: I have to imagine that the agent that Roadrunner53 called was one of the ones that represented only one company (Allstate, State Farm, Farmers, etc.), because an independent agent would've at least looked at the other carriers they represent to see if they can get you a better deal.  It was one of the three companies you mentioned.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5217 on: March 19, 2019, 06:32:41 AM »
I also use an insurance broker.  A few years ago I called up various companies on my own (I was getting all the ads from my alumni associations for great insurance deals), and no-one had a better insurance deal than the one my broker had already found for me.  When DD started driving our broker found the best car insurance for her situation, which was a different company than mine.  When my basement flooded I called the broker and they made all the initial arrangements with my insurance company.  A good independent broker is great.

dmac680chi

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5218 on: March 19, 2019, 07:00:55 PM »
So my great grandparents were fairly wealthy and managed their money fine. Then they passed the wealthy to my grandparents. Unfortunately they are not good with money. At one point they sold a beautiful piece of jewelry to afford hay for the horses they owned. They also had “advisors” convince them to invest a ton into penny stocks. That ranked and my dad thinks over the years they’ve lost millions of dollars.

Now they’re at the point they need more assistance for living. They also want somewhere really nice as well as that’s the lifestyle they are used to. The place they're looking at has 2 options:

1) Pay $500,000 and they get care for however long they love but don't get any back

2) Pay $800,000 and get 80% back

Problem is they don't have the $800k so option 1. Still pretty stupid in terms of risk. I can also foresee some corruption as the payout the retirement place would  make no matter how long they live for. There are probably cheaper options but of course they want “the best”.


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Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5219 on: March 19, 2019, 08:13:08 PM »
Do they have 500k?

dmac680chi

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5220 on: March 19, 2019, 08:38:01 PM »
Do they have 500k?

Sort of, it would be at least a third of not more of their wealth. Honestly I think it’ll be expected that their kids (my mom and her two siblings) to pitch in as well. I’m all about ensuring your parents are taken care of but not at the expense of creating further financial hardship.


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Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5221 on: March 19, 2019, 10:29:07 PM »
They should pay for it in full themselves.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5222 on: March 20, 2019, 01:23:34 PM »
Do they have 500k?

Sort of, it would be at least a third of not more of their wealth. Honestly I think itíll be expected that their kids (my mom and her two siblings) to pitch in as well. Iím all about ensuring your parents are taken care of but not at the expense of creating further financial hardship.


That would be a "Hell no!" from me.   You have $300k?  Get a cheap apartment.  Have a nice day.   Don't blow the rest of your money because we're not going to bail you out simply because you choose to be stupid.

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5223 on: March 20, 2019, 02:34:39 PM »
Do they have 500k?

Sort of, it would be at least a third of not more of their wealth. Honestly I think itíll be expected that their kids (my mom and her two siblings) to pitch in as well. Iím all about ensuring your parents are taken care of but not at the expense of creating further financial hardship.


That would be a "Hell no!" from me.   You have $300k?  Get a cheap apartment.  Have a nice day.   Don't blow the rest of your money because we're not going to bail you out simply because you choose to be stupid.
Well, if $500k is a third of their wealth, then they have $1.5M, and they can afford the $800k, no?  Unless I missed something.


dmac680chi

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5224 on: March 20, 2019, 02:35:25 PM »
Agreed though too I’m sure the medical expenses would be more then that I’m sure


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dmac680chi

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5225 on: March 20, 2019, 08:23:12 PM »
Do they have 500k?

Sort of, it would be at least a third of not more of their wealth. Honestly I think it’ll be expected that their kids (my mom and her two siblings) to pitch in as well. I’m all about ensuring your parents are taken care of but not at the expense of creating further financial hardship.


That would be a "Hell no!" from me.   You have $300k?  Get a cheap apartment.  Have a nice day.   Don't blow the rest of your money because we're not going to bail you out simply because you choose to be stupid.
Well, if $500k is a third of their wealth, then they have $1.5M, and they can afford the $800k, no?  Unless I missed something.

Also I haven’t heard the entire story so I’m sure there’s more to it


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KathrinS

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5226 on: March 22, 2019, 08:18:47 AM »
My uncle has a tractor. Is he a farmer? No, but about once a year, it snows a lot and he has to plow the snow. With his tractor.

His son (18) wants to be an ice hockey player, so obviously he needs all of the best, professional gear.  He needs new, expensive hockey sticks (over $100) every few weeks because when he loses, he smashes them on the ground in rage.

The daughter (20) has a boyfriend who regularly orders things from her phone and accounts, but then doesn't pay for them. Her online shopping accounts have repeatedly been blocked because of this, and my uncle's family is constantly paying off the boyfriend's debt. In addition, she has an online shopping addiction, with new things being delivered every week for the last 4-5 years.

The whole family is just such a disaster, it's actually quite sad.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5227 on: March 22, 2019, 09:22:44 AM »

His son (18) wants to be an ice hockey player, so obviously he needs all of the best, professional gear.  He needs new, expensive hockey sticks (over $100) every few weeks because when he loses, he smashes them on the ground in rage.


This is classic wife beater behavior.   He just doesn't have a wife to beat, yet.

That boy needs therapy before he harms someone and ends up in prison.  Won't be fun to do, and most certainly won't be appreciated, but someone needs to tell him and his parents that he needs help.

Sugaree

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5228 on: March 22, 2019, 10:05:31 AM »
In today's episode of The Saga of BIL/SIL: I was previously under the impression that the house they were living in was something that her family had let them use. As it turns out, MIL/FIL have been paying their $1200/month rent every month (it's cheaper than what they were paying when they lived in Europe, I guess). FIL found a job that would be a perfect fit for BIL. And it's at a university where FIL could pull some strings to get him hired. And it's like a 20 minute drive from the farmhouse, which FIL had generously offered to give them. So BIL hemmed and hawwed about it for awhile.  Yesterday FIL asked him if he'd applied either there or to the other school where FIL had gotten his PhD from. BIL told him that he has decided not to apply to any southern universities. That they are "settled" there and don't want to move the boys (the boys are 5 and 3 and the girls are 1). FIL is livid and ready to cut them off. Let them see how "settled" they are when they're on their own. I don't think MIL will let that happen, moreso for the kids sake than anything else, but BIL is the golden child.


Oh....and SIL has decided to "take a break" for awhile from sending out resumes...

RetiredAt63

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5229 on: March 22, 2019, 11:07:12 AM »

His son (18) wants to be an ice hockey player, so obviously he needs all of the best, professional gear.  He needs new, expensive hockey sticks (over $100) every few weeks because when he loses, he smashes them on the ground in rage.


This is classic wife beater behavior.   He just doesn't have a wife to beat, yet.

That boy needs therapy before he harms someone and ends up in prison.  Won't be fun to do, and most certainly won't be appreciated, but someone needs to tell him and his parents that he needs help.

The daughter's behaviour doesn't sound much healthier:
"The daughter (20) has a boyfriend who regularly orders things from her phone and accounts, but then doesn't pay for them. Her online shopping accounts have repeatedly been blocked because of this, and my uncle's family is constantly paying off the boyfriend's debt. In addition, she has an online shopping addiction, with new things being delivered every week for the last 4-5 years.

Her boyfriend is taking financial advantage of her and her family, and her own shopping is out of control.  At 20!

KathrinS

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5230 on: March 23, 2019, 03:30:09 PM »

His son (18) wants to be an ice hockey player, so obviously he needs all of the best, professional gear.  He needs new, expensive hockey sticks (over $100) every few weeks because when he loses, he smashes them on the ground in rage.


This is classic wife beater behavior.   He just doesn't have a wife to beat, yet.

That boy needs therapy before he harms someone and ends up in prison.  Won't be fun to do, and most certainly won't be appreciated, but someone needs to tell him and his parents that he needs help.

The daughter's behaviour doesn't sound much healthier:
"The daughter (20) has a boyfriend who regularly orders things from her phone and accounts, but then doesn't pay for them. Her online shopping accounts have repeatedly been blocked because of this, and my uncle's family is constantly paying off the boyfriend's debt. In addition, she has an online shopping addiction, with new things being delivered every week for the last 4-5 years.

Her boyfriend is taking financial advantage of her and her family, and her own shopping is out of control.  At 20!

I know, the whole family is a huge mess. Neither of the kids have ever had a full time job yet, or gone to university, and they just spend spend spend, without regard for others, for the environment, or for their own health. I think the son saw this stick-bashing behaviour on TV from some of the professional hockey stars, and is trying to emulate them. While he is just rude and ignorant, the girl seems to have serious mental health and self image issues. Hence this crazy spending and dependency on her boyfriend.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5231 on: March 24, 2019, 08:03:03 AM »
Relative wants us to improve our house and thinks we're poor. They know our mortgage is likely much lower than the value of the house, so what is their great advice to your young family members? Time to borrow some more money to extend the house! Why not build a large extension with a massive kitchen? We don't particularly need the space, the house is big enough. "But the value of your home will increase!!" .

We are not actually poor, but they don't know that. If we were, this would be the worst advice ever.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5232 on: March 24, 2019, 08:05:49 AM »
Relative wants us to improve our house and thinks we're poor. They know our mortgage is likely much lower than the value of the house, so what is their great advice to your young family members? Time to borrow some more money to extend the house! Why not build a large extension with a massive kitchen? We don't particularly need the space, the house is big enough. "But the value of your home will increase!!" .

We are not actually poor, but they don't know that. If we were, this would be the worst advice ever.

It's still the worst advice ever. Barring routine maintenance such as cleaning or replacing worn-out items, the only time you need to worry about improving the value of a house is if you're selling it. The new owner is most likely going to paint over the fugly white walls and rip out the real-estate-beige carpet.

Fi(re) on the Farm

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5233 on: March 24, 2019, 04:00:35 PM »
Relative wants us to improve our house and thinks we're poor. They know our mortgage is likely much lower than the value of the house, so what is their great advice to your young family members? Time to borrow some more money to extend the house! Why not build a large extension with a massive kitchen? We don't particularly need the space, the house is big enough. "But the value of your home will increase!!" .

We are not actually poor, but they don't know that. If we were, this would be the worst advice ever.

It's still the worst advice ever. Barring routine maintenance such as cleaning or replacing worn-out items, the only time you need to worry about improving the value of a house is if you're selling it. The new owner is most likely going to paint over the fugly white walls and rip out the real-estate-beige carpet.

My sister is always harping on us about resale - what colors we paint our walls, what bathroom fixtures we bought when we redid our bathroom. She's broke, lives in a cheap apartment and has huge debt but thinks that the tub surround we bought was cheap and we should have spent more money.  She used to work in a high end home improvement store and that was their mantra. Every time she does this I want to scream. We're not planning on selling until we retire in 4 years and by that point something else will be in fashion.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5234 on: March 24, 2019, 05:29:27 PM »

My sister is always harping on us about resale - what colors we paint our walls, what bathroom fixtures we bought when we redid our bathroom. She's broke, lives in a cheap apartment and has huge debt but thinks that the tub surround we bought was cheap and we should have spent more money.  She used to work in a high end home improvement store and that was their mantra. Every time she does this I want to scream. We're not planning on selling until we retire in 4 years and by that point something else will be in fashion.

If you ever get enough tired of it, and polite forms of getting her to stop have repeatedly failed, just calmly say, "I do not take financial advice from people who are not only broke, but are hugely in debt, unless that advice is, 'Do not make the mistakes I made.'   This is the last time I want to hear that particular type of advice from you."

I suspect that will do the trick.   For bonus points, you may not have to talk to her for quite some time.

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5235 on: March 24, 2019, 06:13:17 PM »
Or simply - "we bought what we could afford" and leave it at that. No problem letting people around you think you are poor.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5236 on: March 24, 2019, 10:18:28 PM »
Relative wants us to improve our house and thinks we're poor. They know our mortgage is likely much lower than the value of the house, so what is their great advice to your young family members? Time to borrow some more money to extend the house! Why not build a large extension with a massive kitchen? We don't particularly need the space, the house is big enough. "But the value of your home will increase!!" .

We are not actually poor, but they don't know that. If we were, this would be the worst advice ever.

It's still the worst advice ever. Barring routine maintenance such as cleaning or replacing worn-out items, the only time you need to worry about improving the value of a house is if you're selling it. The new owner is most likely going to paint over the fugly white walls and rip out the real-estate-beige carpet.

My sister is always harping on us about resale - what colors we paint our walls, what bathroom fixtures we bought when we redid our bathroom. She's broke, lives in a cheap apartment and has huge debt but thinks that the tub surround we bought was cheap and we should have spent more money.  She used to work in a high end home improvement store and that was their mantra. Every time she does this I want to scream. We're not planning on selling until we retire in 4 years and by that point something else will be in fashion.

My guess is that your sister needs some validation. She's not doing too well, and she's trying to offer what she sees as being her area of expertise. You could ask her opinion on some hypothetical things just to make her feel good - what do you think of this bathroom we saw online type of thing.

Jouer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5237 on: March 25, 2019, 08:30:36 AM »

His son (18) wants to be an ice hockey player, so obviously he needs all of the best, professional gear.  He needs new, expensive hockey sticks (over $100) every few weeks because when he loses, he smashes them on the ground in rage.


This is besides the point but if he's still buying his own sticks at 18 (as opposed to getting them from a team), he isn't going to be a hockey player.

Goldielocks

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5238 on: March 25, 2019, 09:54:29 AM »
Relative wants us to improve our house and thinks we're poor. They know our mortgage is likely much lower than the value of the house, so what is their great advice to your young family members? Time to borrow some more money to extend the house! Why not build a large extension with a massive kitchen? We don't particularly need the space, the house is big enough. "But the value of your home will increase!!" .

We are not actually poor, but they don't know that. If we were, this would be the worst advice ever.

It's still the worst advice ever. Barring routine maintenance such as cleaning or replacing worn-out items, the only time you need to worry about improving the value of a house is if you're selling it. The new owner is most likely going to paint over the fugly white walls and rip out the real-estate-beige carpet.

My sister is always harping on us about resale - what colors we paint our walls, what bathroom fixtures we bought when we redid our bathroom. She's broke, lives in a cheap apartment and has huge debt but thinks that the tub surround we bought was cheap and we should have spent more money.  She used to work in a high end home improvement store and that was their mantra. Every time she does this I want to scream. We're not planning on selling until we retire in 4 years and by that point something else will be in fashion.
FIL gave his opinion about the fact we were re-installing the older metal kitchen sink when we did a kitchen reno.... 'Why are you using that sink.. etc".
What stopped him from more comments was a simple "Because I like it".

Wow.  Simple answers work.

KathrinS

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5239 on: March 25, 2019, 03:34:36 PM »

His son (18) wants to be an ice hockey player, so obviously he needs all of the best, professional gear.  He needs new, expensive hockey sticks (over $100) every few weeks because when he loses, he smashes them on the ground in rage.


This is besides the point but if he's still buying his own sticks at 18 (as opposed to getting them from a team), he isn't going to be a hockey player.

He keeps moving to new teams because the coaches tell him he should just play recreationally, he's not good enough to go pro. The family consensus: 'Poor boy! Those horrible coaches, they just don't like him. Why can't we find a decent coach?' Then they move to a new team, paying yet another membership fee.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5240 on: March 25, 2019, 06:15:57 PM »

His son (18) wants to be an ice hockey player, so obviously he needs all of the best, professional gear.  He needs new, expensive hockey sticks (over $100) every few weeks because when he loses, he smashes them on the ground in rage.


This is besides the point but if he's still buying his own sticks at 18 (as opposed to getting them from a team), he isn't going to be a hockey player.

He keeps moving to new teams because the coaches tell him he should just play recreationally, he's not good enough to go pro. The family consensus: 'Poor boy! Those horrible coaches, they just don't like him. Why can't we find a decent coach?' Then they move to a new team, paying yet another membership fee.

Another case of not recognizing the common denominator.
Spoiler: show
In this case, his lack of pro level hockey skills.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5241 on: March 25, 2019, 08:49:20 PM »

His son (18) wants to be an ice hockey player, so obviously he needs all of the best, professional gear.  He needs new, expensive hockey sticks (over $100) every few weeks because when he loses, he smashes them on the ground in rage.


This is besides the point but if he's still buying his own sticks at 18 (as opposed to getting them from a team), he isn't going to be a hockey player.

He keeps moving to new teams because the coaches tell him he should just play recreationally, he's not good enough to go pro. The family consensus: 'Poor boy! Those horrible coaches, they just don't like him. Why can't we find a decent coach?' Then they move to a new team, paying yet another membership fee.

Another case of not recognizing the common denominator.
Spoiler: show
In this case, his lack of pro level hockey skills.

This reminds me of an old saying: "If you met a guy today who's a jerk, he's a jerk.  If everyone you met today was a jerk, you're the jerk." 

kelvin

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5242 on: March 27, 2019, 12:03:39 PM »
Dad was visiting this week.

"You work a union job now, that means you're doing just fine." Translation: Go ahead and live paycheck to paycheck, because you've got a pension.

True, I have a sweet job with a great pension, assuming I don't f@#$ it up. I think I'll keep my emergency fund and stay living below my means, thanks.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5243 on: March 27, 2019, 03:23:30 PM »
Relative wants us to improve our house and thinks we're poor. They know our mortgage is likely much lower than the value of the house, so what is their great advice to your young family members? Time to borrow some more money to extend the house! Why not build a large extension with a massive kitchen? We don't particularly need the space, the house is big enough. "But the value of your home will increase!!" .

We are not actually poor, but they don't know that. If we were, this would be the worst advice ever.

It's still the worst advice ever. Barring routine maintenance such as cleaning or replacing worn-out items, the only time you need to worry about improving the value of a house is if you're selling it. The new owner is most likely going to paint over the fugly white walls and rip out the real-estate-beige carpet.

Same relative today: i can help you out applying for the mortgage! I'm sure you'd get it. (that's true, they work in that industry and could get us a good deal). I think I was clear this time that were are not interested in extending, with or without a mortgage.

Instead I tried to change the topic by excitingly telling them all about the plans we have for the garden that we're working now and how we are going to have a very lovely garden soon and all the ways we're saving money while still having the same end result and how I can't wait to sit in my garden every day this summer. Relative: do you know you can get a mortgage for that, too?

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5244 on: March 27, 2019, 06:20:55 PM »
I find your relative rude. Itís like going into someoneís house and saying your kitchen is ugly and you need to remodel it. Who even does that?

ysette9

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5245 on: March 27, 2019, 09:26:50 PM »
I’d like to know more about getting a mortgage for a garden.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5246 on: March 28, 2019, 12:54:11 AM »
Relative wants us to improve our house and thinks we're poor. They know our mortgage is likely much lower than the value of the house, so what is their great advice to your young family members? Time to borrow some more money to extend the house! Why not build a large extension with a massive kitchen? We don't particularly need the space, the house is big enough. "But the value of your home will increase!!" .

We are not actually poor, but they don't know that. If we were, this would be the worst advice ever.

It's still the worst advice ever. Barring routine maintenance such as cleaning or replacing worn-out items, the only time you need to worry about improving the value of a house is if you're selling it. The new owner is most likely going to paint over the fugly white walls and rip out the real-estate-beige carpet.

Same relative today: i can help you out applying for the mortgage! I'm sure you'd get it. (that's true, they work in that industry and could get us a good deal). I think I was clear this time that were are not interested in extending, with or without a mortgage.

Instead I tried to change the topic by excitingly telling them all about the plans we have for the garden that we're working now and how we are going to have a very lovely garden soon and all the ways we're saving money while still having the same end result and how I can't wait to sit in my garden every day this summer. Relative: do you know you can get a mortgage for that, too?

Maybe your relative gets a bonus every time he "helps" someone to sign on a new mortgage.
Just ignore him or her and let it be the thing they feel the need for telling you each time (hun stokpaardje).

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5247 on: March 28, 2019, 05:15:44 AM »
Relative wants us to improve our house and thinks we're poor. They know our mortgage is likely much lower than the value of the house, so what is their great advice to your young family members? Time to borrow some more money to extend the house! Why not build a large extension with a massive kitchen? We don't particularly need the space, the house is big enough. "But the value of your home will increase!!" .

We are not actually poor, but they don't know that. If we were, this would be the worst advice ever.

It's still the worst advice ever. Barring routine maintenance such as cleaning or replacing worn-out items, the only time you need to worry about improving the value of a house is if you're selling it. The new owner is most likely going to paint over the fugly white walls and rip out the real-estate-beige carpet.

Same relative today: i can help you out applying for the mortgage! I'm sure you'd get it. (that's true, they work in that industry and could get us a good deal). I think I was clear this time that were are not interested in extending, with or without a mortgage.

Instead I tried to change the topic by excitingly telling them all about the plans we have for the garden that we're working now and how we are going to have a very lovely garden soon and all the ways we're saving money while still having the same end result and how I can't wait to sit in my garden every day this summer. Relative: do you know you can get a mortgage for that, too?

Maybe your relative gets a bonus every time he "helps" someone to sign on a new mortgage.
Just ignore him or her and let it be the thing they feel the need for telling you each time (hun stokpaardje).

The bonus thing is illegal now in here. They offered to help us apply for an execution only mortgage and look up in the tables how much we'd be able to borrow. It's not unusual to take out an extra mortgage for kitchen, bathroom or garden renovations. I know for sure they are honest, but the whole idea that someone doesn't want to take on all the mortgage the bank says they can afford is just not something they can wrap their head around. The bank says you can afford it! You'd have a fancy house instead of a basic, good enough house! Why wouldn't you?

@Cassie our family members do and not just that person. We hear it a lot especially from the older generation. In our country, it's considered very important that your home looks picture perfect. Most homes are small in this country, the cars are small, no one cares about designer clothes but a perfect house is a must have. Even if you are poor - then you just get your stuff from cheaper stores. Flashy/expensive interiors are frowned upon, but your home has tot be absolutely spotless and decorated in a certain way. Dutch people are forthright to a fault. When we moved in our neighbour told us that we have the wrong curtains, as we are the only home in the street that don't have curtains in a particular style.

eliza

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5248 on: March 28, 2019, 06:16:12 AM »

His son (18) wants to be an ice hockey player, so obviously he needs all of the best, professional gear.  He needs new, expensive hockey sticks (over $100) every few weeks because when he loses, he smashes them on the ground in rage.


This is besides the point but if he's still buying his own sticks at 18 (as opposed to getting them from a team), he isn't going to be a hockey player.

He keeps moving to new teams because the coaches tell him he should just play recreationally, he's not good enough to go pro. The family consensus: 'Poor boy! Those horrible coaches, they just don't like him. Why can't we find a decent coach?' Then they move to a new team, paying yet another membership fee.

Oh, man.  That's just sad.  There was a family in my neighborhood growing up who were the same way - their son was going to be an NHL superstar! The delusion lasted well past the point of there being any hope - like there is a major junior team in town - there's a very obvious skill differential between those kids and your kid.  When you get to the point that you are aging out of  junior and you've never managed to crack a Junior A roster, it's time to accept that your deep and abiding love for hockey can always remain but you need to find another way to earn your living.  The sheer amount of money wasted was one thing, but even worse was when they finally accepted that the hockey thing was never going to pan out (kid was in his mid 20's), he was just totally lost.  No back up plan.  No ambition to do anything else.  He kind of just lingered around in a state of disbelief not really doing anything for several years.  I've long since lost touch with the family - but I hope he figured his shit out and managed to get his life back together.

NorthernMonkey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5249 on: March 28, 2019, 08:23:24 AM »
My nephew (14) plays for a pro soccer team here in england, in the u15 team (college sport isnt a thing here, the pro teams are responsible for growing (or buying talent). He gets ALL of his gear for free (like a shit-ton of it, 5 shirts so you always play in a clean shirt if you're in a weekend long tournament)