Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 3566365 times)

2Cent

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5100 on: December 20, 2018, 02:40:27 AM »
....

That actually is a sweet story. The guy I'm seeing, there is a 0% chance he would buy me jewelry. But, he helped me renovate my kitchen including making a place for a dishwasher so I'm not chained to the sink doing dishes every day. Bought and helped install nice and more secure front and back doors on my house. Also helped with multiple house emergencies and a car emergency. I really appreciate if he says he's going to do something, even if there are complications or a delay, he does it. In fact I'm still not used to it.

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5101 on: December 21, 2018, 02:57:19 PM »
1) it’s the computer’s fault because it’s too slow to go online and write word documents (computer from 2016/2017)

I know his problem is BS but tell him to put free Mint Linux on his "elderly" computer. The speed will return. He can run it from a flashdrive. If you are lucky it'll spark a CS fascination that he can parlay into a career.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5102 on: December 23, 2018, 02:47:45 PM »
I have a relative with which I always exchange super practical gifts, specifically requested gifts. This year I asked for an expensive air dryer rack for clothes. These things are made of individually powder coated steel bars and held together with replaceable bolts. As opposed to the cheap white powder coated, poorly welded racks that always break.  And relative requested a particular tool for the xmas swap. That's all good, mustachian, even. The reason for this post is the amused comment that I got when I nominated the dryer rack - I should stop being to lazy and just put my clothes in the tumble dryer....... um...wha????

Dicey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5103 on: December 24, 2018, 09:07:08 AM »
I have a relative with which I always exchange super practical gifts, specifically requested gifts. This year I asked for an expensive air dryer rack for clothes. These things are made of individually powder coated steel bars and held together with replaceable bolts. As opposed to the cheap white powder coated, poorly welded racks that always break.  And relative requested a particular tool for the xmas swap. That's all good, mustachian, even. The reason for this post is the amused comment that I got when I nominated the dryer rack - I should stop being to lazy and just put my clothes in the tumble dryer....... um...wha????
@AnnaGrowsAMustache, I'm looking for a high quality drying rack. Care to share details?

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5104 on: December 24, 2018, 10:06:31 AM »
I have a relative with which I always exchange super practical gifts, specifically requested gifts. This year I asked for an expensive air dryer rack for clothes. These things are made of individually powder coated steel bars and held together with replaceable bolts. As opposed to the cheap white powder coated, poorly welded racks that always break.  And relative requested a particular tool for the xmas swap. That's all good, mustachian, even. The reason for this post is the amused comment that I got when I nominated the dryer rack - I should stop being to lazy and just put my clothes in the tumble dryer....... um...wha????
@AnnaGrowsAMustache, I'm looking for a high quality drying rack. Care to share details?

I'm in NZ, so I doubt details would help you..... Nice that someone else appreciates the quality drying rack, though!

Fi(re) on the Farm

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5105 on: December 24, 2018, 04:24:52 PM »
I have a relative with which I always exchange super practical gifts, specifically requested gifts. This year I asked for an expensive air dryer rack for clothes. These things are made of individually powder coated steel bars and held together with replaceable bolts. As opposed to the cheap white powder coated, poorly welded racks that always break.  And relative requested a particular tool for the xmas swap. That's all good, mustachian, even. The reason for this post is the amused comment that I got when I nominated the dryer rack - I should stop being to lazy and just put my clothes in the tumble dryer....... um...wha????
@AnnaGrowsAMustache, I'm looking for a high quality drying rack. Care to share details?

I'm in NZ, so I doubt details would help you..... Nice that someone else appreciates the quality drying rack, though!

Me too! I have two heavy duty wood ones and a couple of metal ones, I'd love to have a really good sturdy one.

Freedomin5

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5106 on: December 25, 2018, 05:54:27 PM »
Argh...just need to vent...

The Background:
We pay for tutoring for a young family member who is at risk of failing high school because he stays up all night gaming, can’t wake up for school the next morning, lives in a volatile household, and his mom says “growing boys need their sleep” and doesn’t make him go to school. This kid recently (last year) got a high end gaming computer. He also has an older laptop, a tablet, and a smart phone. Mom is on government assistance and they live with grandma practically rent-free. Kid is currently doing online courses after failing out of grade nine because he is a delicate snowflake who can’t handle the rough highschool environment. We spend about $100/week on intensive tutoring for the kid to help him keep on top of his assignments because there’s no way this kid can manage a self-study program.

Today, we received a message from the kid asking us to buy him a MacBook “so that he can study better and pass his courses”. Basically, the message said that he is currently behind because:

1) it’s the computer’s fault because it’s too slow to go online and write word documents (computer from 2016/2017)
2) it’s the house’s fault because he can study better at the library (already suggested to him in August when he had multiple excuses why it wouldn’t work)
3) it’s the desk’s fault because the “desk isn’t good for writing on” (what the heck does that even mean?!?! And why would you need to write on a desk if you’re doing ONLINE courses?)

We are going to say no and point out that we spent his MacBook money on his tutoring.

I have an update. I like posting here because you guys "get it", whereas I have to Explain The Obvious in real life because some people "don't get it".

Anyway, I was looking over bank statements because it's the end of the year and noticed that we haven't been paying the tutor for the past two weeks. We have been keeping in touch with the kid's mom on a weekly basis, and she never mentioned anything. So I reached out to the tutor to try to figure out what's going on. Turns out the mom stopped tutoring because the "kid is focusing on other subjects right now". I don't even know what that means because this tutor was responsible for helping him with ALL his subjects. Mom said that the 2+ hours of tutoring he was receiving was "too much for him to handle" because he has other stuff he needs to do. What other stuff?!?! The kid sleeps in until noon every day and then games for another good chunk of the day. ARGH!!! (Oh, and calling CPS is a no go because there isn't actually any abuse going on, and it was the public school that asked the kid to leave and do his lessons online, so technically he is still "in school", and even though his household has some stupid thinking patterns, it's actually quite stable. You can't call CPS because someone is stupid.).

No wonder the kid asked for a new laptop. It's to help him study better because he now doesn't have a tutor. He and his mom do not understand that having a new electronic will not help him with planning and organization, time management, etc. -- all those important executive functioning skills that help you hold a job and be an Independent and Successful human being.

Well, I'm sitting on the fence in terms of continuing to provide tutoring. You know how they say, you can teach a man to fish and give him a new fishing pole, but you can't actually make him pick up the pole and actually fish, or he may sell the pole because...I don't why you would sell the pole. I can't figure it out. But I have a feeling this kind of thinking is what keeps people poor and downtrodden.

/rant over

sapphail

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5107 on: December 25, 2018, 06:44:11 PM »
Turns out the mom stopped tutoring because the "kid is focusing on other subjects right now". I don't even know what that means because this tutor was responsible for helping him with ALL his subjects. Mom said that the 2+ hours of tutoring he was receiving was "too much for him to handle" because he has other stuff he needs to do.

Well, I'm sitting on the fence in terms of continuing to provide tutoring. You know how they say, you can teach a man to fish and give him a new fishing pole, but you can't actually make him pick up the pole and actually fish, or he may sell the pole because...I don't why you would sell the pole. I can't figure it out. But I have a feeling this kind of thinking is what keeps people poor and downtrodden.

Honestly, I think you've done all you can do at this point, and you've got the patience of a saint for trying to help him for as long as you have. One of two things needs to happen at this stage - either the kid needs to realize his life is going to go nowhere doing what he's doing and develop a work ethic (unlikely, given his mother's enabling), or his mum needs to realize that she's not doing him any favours and light a fire under his arse (equally unlikely). I don't think his mum is going to realize this is a bad idea until he's 25, still living with her and still playing video games all day.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5108 on: December 25, 2018, 06:45:01 PM »
Argh...


Don't toss more good money after bad.   They won't do it.   Unless something in that kid's mind or heart changes, he's just a lost soul.  Let him be lost on his own time and own dime.  Ditto with his parent(s).


Not your circus, not your monkeys.

tralfamadorian

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5109 on: December 25, 2018, 06:50:16 PM »
I finally have a good one for this thread. Relative came by with toddler wearing prada shoes. *dead*

Dicey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5110 on: December 25, 2018, 07:35:48 PM »
I finally have a good one for this thread. Relative came by with toddler wearing prada shoes. *dead*
My grandbaby lives in Aspen. She got brand-name skis for Christmas...from the Sporting Goods Resale Store. Same place I bought DH a lululemon jacket for $20, then found $15 inside a small zippered pocket. They also have a great (3 story!) thrift shop right downtown. Mommy used to be a nanny, so she also gets super high-end hand-me-downs from rich former clients for zero dollars.
Now, if those Prada shoes still had price tags on them, that might be another story. But don't forget - doting grandparents are known to do stoopid things.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5111 on: December 25, 2018, 09:45:13 PM »
Argh...just need to vent...

The Background:
We pay for tutoring for a young family member who is at risk of failing high school because he stays up all night gaming, can’t wake up for school the next morning, lives in a volatile household, and his mom says “growing boys need their sleep” and doesn’t make him go to school. This kid recently (last year) got a high end gaming computer. He also has an older laptop, a tablet, and a smart phone. Mom is on government assistance and they live with grandma practically rent-free. Kid is currently doing online courses after failing out of grade nine because he is a delicate snowflake who can’t handle the rough highschool environment. We spend about $100/week on intensive tutoring for the kid to help him keep on top of his assignments because there’s no way this kid can manage a self-study program.

Today, we received a message from the kid asking us to buy him a MacBook “so that he can study better and pass his courses”. Basically, the message said that he is currently behind because:

1) it’s the computer’s fault because it’s too slow to go online and write word documents (computer from 2016/2017)
2) it’s the house’s fault because he can study better at the library (already suggested to him in August when he had multiple excuses why it wouldn’t work)
3) it’s the desk’s fault because the “desk isn’t good for writing on” (what the heck does that even mean?!?! And why would you need to write on a desk if you’re doing ONLINE courses?)

We are going to say no and point out that we spent his MacBook money on his tutoring.

I have an update. I like posting here because you guys "get it", whereas I have to Explain The Obvious in real life because some people "don't get it".

Anyway, I was looking over bank statements because it's the end of the year and noticed that we haven't been paying the tutor for the past two weeks. We have been keeping in touch with the kid's mom on a weekly basis, and she never mentioned anything. So I reached out to the tutor to try to figure out what's going on. Turns out the mom stopped tutoring because the "kid is focusing on other subjects right now". I don't even know what that means because this tutor was responsible for helping him with ALL his subjects. Mom said that the 2+ hours of tutoring he was receiving was "too much for him to handle" because he has other stuff he needs to do. What other stuff?!?! The kid sleeps in until noon every day and then games for another good chunk of the day. ARGH!!! (Oh, and calling CPS is a no go because there isn't actually any abuse going on, and it was the public school that asked the kid to leave and do his lessons online, so technically he is still "in school", and even though his household has some stupid thinking patterns, it's actually quite stable. You can't call CPS because someone is stupid.).

No wonder the kid asked for a new laptop. It's to help him study better because he now doesn't have a tutor. He and his mom do not understand that having a new electronic will not help him with planning and organization, time management, etc. -- all those important executive functioning skills that help you hold a job and be an Independent and Successful human being.

Well, I'm sitting on the fence in terms of continuing to provide tutoring. You know how they say, you can teach a man to fish and give him a new fishing pole, but you can't actually make him pick up the pole and actually fish, or he may sell the pole because...I don't why you would sell the pole. I can't figure it out. But I have a feeling this kind of thinking is what keeps people poor and downtrodden.

/rant over

You can't help people; you can only help them help themselves. None of the people in this story are helping themselves.

Nederstash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5112 on: December 26, 2018, 05:45:12 AM »
I've posted about my oldest brother before. He has induced facepalms that would put Jean-Luc Picard to shame and he's currently prepping for the biggest mistake yet. He's 42, his girlfriend 44. He has a really bad work history, because, according to him, no one listens to his great ideas. He says he just can't work under a boss (this is probably true...). Anyway, after a string of jobs with some unemployment tossed in there, he's a self-employed manager. He has had a business in the past, that did well. By now he's been working as an independent manager, working for a big company, going on 3 years now. He's doing well, he's taking home 5k a month (after tax!) and his girlfriend around 4k a month.

He really wants to buy a house. He has no retirement saved - NONE at all. This house will be his retirement plan.
Being self-empoyed means he didn't qualify for a mortgage until the 3 year mark. That'll happen in the next few months, same for his girlfriend (also self-employed). I visited him recently, he's all giddy:

Him: The bank will let us pick something for a million!
Me: What, seriously?
Him: Yeah, that's the top mortgage we can afford.
Me: So, in what range are you going to search?
Him: *owlish blinking*
Me: I mean, you're not going for a full million, right? You wanted to pay it off for retirement?
Him: That's 25 years away, plenty of time to pay it down.
Me: ooo-kay. So what are you doing for a downpayment?
Him: We've been saving up for that.
Me: Good for you! For a house that price, I'm thinking you'll put down 20% or so? So... 200k?"
Him: *looks like I grew another head* N-no, not that much.
*awkward pause*
Him: You meant, how much we saved for closing costs? We'll have that covered.

You guys, I just couldn't... My brain gave a compiling error and just noped out. With their combined take home pay of 9k a month and the rent that's only 1200, I figured they'd be stashing. Even with 2k spending a month on top of their rent, they'd have been able to stash 200k in 3 years.

In hindsight, of course they didn't stash that much. There's 2 brand new cars, an Audi and a BMW. They go on weekend getaways every other weekend: Paris, London, Bruges, or some castle in the French or German countryside (the wine region of course!). That's every other weekend. (We live in the Netherlands btw, that's between the UK and Germany). For their actual holidays, 3 times a year, they do shit like cruises (most recently to Oman and Qatar I think?), or going to Dubai, Bali, Africa.

Of course they've got jack shit saved. And no way can they keep up that lifestyle with a 1 million euro chain around their neck. No way can they pay a mortgage off early or even save anything else for retirement. The only thing I can hope for is that he doesn't hit my parents up for a bailout again. There's still a 35k loan outstanding. Oh, and I can hope he keeps his job...

I feel shitty for posting this online but I can't actually discuss this with anyone who knows him. It's so frustrating but he won't take me seriously at all! I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall! AAARGH

Dicey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5113 on: December 26, 2018, 09:18:43 AM »
I see no reason for you to feel shitty, @Nederstash. It's not like you're naming names. This is a good place to vent.

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5114 on: December 26, 2018, 09:35:53 AM »
Maybe with no down payment the bank won’t loan them that much money.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5115 on: December 26, 2018, 10:02:27 AM »
Nederstash Your brother is able to bring home $5,000 after taxes but is this dumb with buying a million dollar house? At best he should start smaller and work up after he sees the costs of home ownership. He seems to like his freedom to travel so this will put a crimp in his lifestyle. He could have the best of both worlds if he would buy a modest home in good condition so he doesn't have to put much money into it. Buying a house is much more than plunking down the money to buy it. Things go wrong, things break down. Heating systems get old, ac gets old, appliances break. Yardwork requires equipment, or you need to hire someone to do the work...more money. Then has he even considered the taxes on the million dollar home? OMG!

Not sure how close you are to your brother but if you are, maybe you could write out several sensible scenario's to show him on paper how one scenario is going to drag him down to the gutter and another scenario will allow him the best of both worlds of a modest house that is affordable and allow for the travel he loves.

How can he be smart enough to make big bucks and is so clueless on buying a million dollar house. So many rich people have bought into buying lots of real estate only to find they end up bankrupt.

 

Nederstash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5116 on: December 26, 2018, 01:50:32 PM »
Thanks, guys! Felt good to vent, I needed that. I used to be close to my brother, at least until I started behaving like an adult (err.. 25 or so). My brother is 10 years older than me and we've always gotten along in the big brother-little sister dynamic. Ever since I really settled into adult life and began to have actual opinions on houses, finances, work etc, we became more like equals. I wasn't looking up to him anymore, I was challenging him on his ideas. I think that's when our relationship grew more distant. I suspect he might not be willing or able to grasp that he might be wrong and I might be right.

Family's weird, man. I'll give it another go, thanks for the suggestion @Roadrunner53. But that's my final try.

Shivan

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5117 on: December 26, 2018, 08:13:58 PM »
I got a lottery ticket for Christmas. Mother-in-law says if I win, I need to add a room to my house. For months, she's been telling my wife things like "I think you'd be happier with some more room". We're all staying together for the next week and I'll need to bite my tongue from saying "OH I'M SORRY, IS MY 3-BR, 2400-SQ FOOT HOUSE NOT BIG ENOUGH FOR MY FAMILY OF FOUR? AT LEAST I DIDN'T LOSE MY HOUSE TO FORECLOSURE SIX YEARS AGO LIKE YOU DID. AT LEAST I DIDN'T REMOVE VALUE FROM MY NEW HOUSE BY COMBINING TWO BEDROOMS INTO ONE LIKE YOU DID. AT LEAST I DON'T HAVE THREE STORAGE BUILDINGS FULL OF CRAP LIKE YOU DO. AT LEAST I DON'T PAY 25% CREDIT CARD INTEREST LIKE YOU DO. AT LEAST I'M NOT SIXTY YEARS OLD AND WORKS LONG HOURS AND HAS A NEGATIVE NET WORTH LIKE YOU. IF YOU THINK ANYONE NEEDS ANOTHER ROOM FULL OF CRAP TO BE HAPPY, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPINESS IS!"

Dicey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5118 on: December 26, 2018, 08:43:58 PM »
LMAO. That is a beautiful mustachian rant. You go, @Shivan!

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5119 on: December 26, 2018, 09:35:40 PM »
Shiva, your house is huge for 4 people. 5 of us in 1800 sq ft and we thought we had died and went to heaven:))

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5120 on: December 26, 2018, 09:38:26 PM »
I got a lottery ticket for Christmas. Mother-in-law says if I win, I need to add a room to my house. For months, she's been telling my wife things like "I think you'd be happier with some more room". We're all staying together for the next week and I'll need to bite my tongue from saying "OH I'M SORRY, IS MY 3-BR, 2400-SQ FOOT HOUSE NOT BIG ENOUGH FOR MY FAMILY OF FOUR? AT LEAST I DIDN'T LOSE MY HOUSE TO FORECLOSURE SIX YEARS AGO LIKE YOU DID. AT LEAST I DIDN'T REMOVE VALUE FROM MY NEW HOUSE BY COMBINING TWO BEDROOMS INTO ONE LIKE YOU DID. AT LEAST I DON'T HAVE THREE STORAGE BUILDINGS FULL OF CRAP LIKE YOU DO. AT LEAST I DON'T PAY 25% CREDIT CARD INTEREST LIKE YOU DO. AT LEAST I'M NOT SIXTY YEARS OLD AND WORKS LONG HOURS AND HAS A NEGATIVE NET WORTH LIKE YOU. IF YOU THINK ANYONE NEEDS ANOTHER ROOM FULL OF CRAP TO BE HAPPY, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPINESS IS!"

ahahhahhaha, love it! Funny how the financially dim always know what you need.

Fi(re) on the Farm

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5121 on: December 27, 2018, 05:21:56 AM »
I got a lottery ticket for Christmas. Mother-in-law says if I win, I need to add a room to my house. For months, she's been telling my wife things like "I think you'd be happier with some more room". We're all staying together for the next week and I'll need to bite my tongue from saying "OH I'M SORRY, IS MY 3-BR, 2400-SQ FOOT HOUSE NOT BIG ENOUGH FOR MY FAMILY OF FOUR? AT LEAST I DIDN'T LOSE MY HOUSE TO FORECLOSURE SIX YEARS AGO LIKE YOU DID. AT LEAST I DIDN'T REMOVE VALUE FROM MY NEW HOUSE BY COMBINING TWO BEDROOMS INTO ONE LIKE YOU DID. AT LEAST I DON'T HAVE THREE STORAGE BUILDINGS FULL OF CRAP LIKE YOU DO. AT LEAST I DON'T PAY 25% CREDIT CARD INTEREST LIKE YOU DO. AT LEAST I'M NOT SIXTY YEARS OLD AND WORKS LONG HOURS AND HAS A NEGATIVE NET WORTH LIKE YOU. IF YOU THINK ANYONE NEEDS ANOTHER ROOM FULL OF CRAP TO BE HAPPY, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPINESS IS!"

That's an epic rant - if it was my MIL she'd want us to build an extra room because she wants someplace to live when she's broke.

Dicey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5122 on: December 27, 2018, 06:12:24 AM »
I got a lottery ticket for Christmas. Mother-in-law says if I win, I need to add a room to my house. For months, she's been telling my wife things like "I think you'd be happier with some more room". We're all staying together for the next week and I'll need to bite my tongue from saying "OH I'M SORRY, IS MY 3-BR, 2400-SQ FOOT HOUSE NOT BIG ENOUGH FOR MY FAMILY OF FOUR? AT LEAST I DIDN'T LOSE MY HOUSE TO FORECLOSURE SIX YEARS AGO LIKE YOU DID. AT LEAST I DIDN'T REMOVE VALUE FROM MY NEW HOUSE BY COMBINING TWO BEDROOMS INTO ONE LIKE YOU DID. AT LEAST I DON'T HAVE THREE STORAGE BUILDINGS FULL OF CRAP LIKE YOU DO. AT LEAST I DON'T PAY 25% CREDIT CARD INTEREST LIKE YOU DO. AT LEAST I'M NOT SIXTY YEARS OLD AND WORKS LONG HOURS AND HAS A NEGATIVE NET WORTH LIKE YOU. IF YOU THINK ANYONE NEEDS ANOTHER ROOM FULL OF CRAP TO BE HAPPY, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPINESS IS!"

That's an epic rant - if it was my MIL she'd want us to build an extra room because she wants someplace to live when she's broke.
Funny, I was expecting that to be part of Shivan's epic rant. Maybe fear of that is the fuel. Personally, I'd be very worried. Hell, I'd be looking into the Witness Protection Program.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5123 on: December 27, 2018, 07:21:50 AM »
Family's weird, man. I'll give it another go, thanks for the suggestion @Roadrunner53. But that's my final try.
challenging their choices head on may produce more backlash than progress. A more effective approach may be to ask questions that will lead him to realize the folly of his path. "Wow, $1m is a lot of mortgage! What's the monthly payment like?" "Does that mean you'll have to pay for anything that breaks, like a furnace?" "Are there property taxes on it, too?"

OtherJen

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5124 on: December 27, 2018, 10:38:03 AM »
Family's weird, man. I'll give it another go, thanks for the suggestion @Roadrunner53. But that's my final try.
challenging their choices head on may produce more backlash than progress. A more effective approach may be to ask questions that will lead him to realize the folly of his path. "Wow, $1m is a lot of mortgage! What's the monthly payment like?" "Does that mean you'll have to pay for anything that breaks, like a furnace?" "Are there property taxes on it, too?"

Or you could simply waste your breath and have the joy (sarcasm) of hearing them complain about those things 2 years later.

I have a couple of friends who recently bought a big first house that they really couldn't afford or manage even on two salaries. Because their parents gave them the full downpayment and they had a lot of lines of credit with which to fill the house with furniture, they waived off all of my kind suggestions (from more than a decade of homeownership) to make sure that they set aside money for taxes, insurance, and upkeep. Two years later, they're living on debt—although they "had" to hire a housekeeper because they're always working and because their neighbors all have housekeepers—and complaining about how expensive their property taxes are. Between the complaining, the fawning over perceived wealthier neighbors, and the condescending comments about my small house, I've definitely reduced the amount of time that I spend with them.

Apples

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5125 on: December 28, 2018, 08:51:52 AM »
Family's weird, man. I'll give it another go, thanks for the suggestion @Roadrunner53. But that's my final try.
challenging their choices head on may produce more backlash than progress. A more effective approach may be to ask questions that will lead him to realize the folly of his path. "Wow, $1m is a lot of mortgage! What's the monthly payment like?" "Does that mean you'll have to pay for anything that breaks, like a furnace?" "Are there property taxes on it, too?"

+1,000,000.  This is the most effective strategy I've found for challenging ideas while in a public place and/or trying to socialize.  Make comments about "wow, you're so confident, you must have really sat down and looked hard at your budget", "is there anything you'll have to give up for the house?  I know that kind of thing can be worth it", "man, when the A/C breaks that's a lot of house to cool back down", "do you know who you're going to call for big repairs", "any idea, % wise, how much more utilities will be?"  All said in a polite, interested tone of voice.  Usually the other person changes the conversation when they start getting uncomfortable.  This doesn't work on jerks who would turn it around and call you weird for asking so many boring/money questions, just live life man.  Also works well to shut down the convo when MLM products come up.  Ask them what's in in and how it works.  Demand a specific answer.  All with enthusiasm, as if if you could only understand how it worked, you'd of course buy some.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5126 on: December 28, 2018, 10:06:51 AM »
Family's weird, man. I'll give it another go, thanks for the suggestion @Roadrunner53. But that's my final try.
challenging their choices head on may produce more backlash than progress. A more effective approach may be to ask questions that will lead him to realize the folly of his path. "Wow, $1m is a lot of mortgage! What's the monthly payment like?" "Does that mean you'll have to pay for anything that breaks, like a furnace?" "Are there property taxes on it, too?"

+1,000,000.  This is the most effective strategy I've found for challenging ideas while in a public place and/or trying to socialize.  Make comments about "wow, you're so confident, you must have really sat down and looked hard at your budget", "is there anything you'll have to give up for the house?  I know that kind of thing can be worth it", "man, when the A/C breaks that's a lot of house to cool back down", "do you know who you're going to call for big repairs", "any idea, % wise, how much more utilities will be?"  All said in a polite, interested tone of voice.  Usually the other person changes the conversation when they start getting uncomfortable.  This doesn't work on jerks who would turn it around and call you weird for asking so many boring/money questions, just live life man.  Also works well to shut down the convo when MLM products come up.  Ask them what's in in and how it works.  Demand a specific answer.  All with enthusiasm, as if if you could only understand how it worked, you'd of course buy some.

Ahahahahaha! Well, I think I've just learned that I'm socially awkward. I usually behave that way out of genuine enthusiasm and a desire to understand. And to even give it a chance, and consider it. I wonder how often I accidentally make people so uncomfortable that they back down, when really I'm just trying to make sense of it and hoping to get excited.

Nederstash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5127 on: December 28, 2018, 02:48:03 PM »
Family's weird, man. I'll give it another go, thanks for the suggestion @Roadrunner53. But that's my final try.
challenging their choices head on may produce more backlash than progress. A more effective approach may be to ask questions that will lead him to realize the folly of his path. "Wow, $1m is a lot of mortgage! What's the monthly payment like?" "Does that mean you'll have to pay for anything that breaks, like a furnace?" "Are there property taxes on it, too?"

+1,000,000.  This is the most effective strategy I've found for challenging ideas while in a public place and/or trying to socialize.  Make comments about "wow, you're so confident, you must have really sat down and looked hard at your budget", "is there anything you'll have to give up for the house?  I know that kind of thing can be worth it", "man, when the A/C breaks that's a lot of house to cool back down", "do you know who you're going to call for big repairs", "any idea, % wise, how much more utilities will be?"  All said in a polite, interested tone of voice.  Usually the other person changes the conversation when they start getting uncomfortable.  This doesn't work on jerks who would turn it around and call you weird for asking so many boring/money questions, just live life man.  Also works well to shut down the convo when MLM products come up.  Ask them what's in in and how it works.  Demand a specific answer.  All with enthusiasm, as if if you could only understand how it worked, you'd of course buy some.

these are great questions, definitely gonna use them!

Shivan

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5128 on: December 31, 2018, 07:27:58 PM »
I got a lottery ticket for Christmas. Mother-in-law says if I win, I need to add a room to my house. For months, she's been telling my wife things like "I think you'd be happier with some more room". We're all staying together for the next week and I'll need to bite my tongue from saying "OH I'M SORRY, IS MY 3-BR, 2400-SQ FOOT HOUSE NOT BIG ENOUGH FOR MY FAMILY OF FOUR? AT LEAST I DIDN'T LOSE MY HOUSE TO FORECLOSURE SIX YEARS AGO LIKE YOU DID. AT LEAST I DIDN'T REMOVE VALUE FROM MY NEW HOUSE BY COMBINING TWO BEDROOMS INTO ONE LIKE YOU DID. AT LEAST I DON'T HAVE THREE STORAGE BUILDINGS FULL OF CRAP LIKE YOU DO. AT LEAST I DON'T PAY 25% CREDIT CARD INTEREST LIKE YOU DO. AT LEAST I'M NOT SIXTY YEARS OLD AND WORKS LONG HOURS AND HAS A NEGATIVE NET WORTH LIKE YOU. IF YOU THINK ANYONE NEEDS ANOTHER ROOM FULL OF CRAP TO BE HAPPY, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPINESS IS!"

That's an epic rant - if it was my MIL she'd want us to build an extra room because she wants someplace to live when she's broke.

I asked my wife if the MIL was pushing for a future room. The wife said no, MIL just thinks we need more space because our house is cluttered. Uh... how about we get rid of clutter instead?

Also, I thought of more things I want to say to my MIL:

IT'S FUNNY HOW YOU THINK I NEED A FOURTH BEDROOM WITH TWO KIDS, WHEN YOU HAVE THREE KIDS, YOU HAD THREE BEDROOMS, AND YOU COMBINED TWO BEDROOMS INTO ONE BECAUSE YOU'RE SELFISH AND UNHAPPY. NOW YOUR KIDS HAVE TO SLEEP ON THE COUCH WHEN THEY COME HOME FOR CHRISTMAS. YOU BARELY SAW YOUR GRANDKIDS THIS CHRISTMAS BECAUSE YOU'RE ALWAYS WORKING OR SHOPPING WHEN YOU COULD'VE RETIRED TWENTY YEARS AGO IF YOU MADE BETTER DECISIONS. MY KIDS BARELY SAW THEIR GRANDFATHER EITHER BECAUSE YOU'RE MAKING HIM BUILD NEW SHELVES FOR SOME REASON. AND NOW YOU'RE PICKING OUT WHAT COLOR YOU WANT TO PAINT THE OUTSIDE OF YOUR BRICK HOUSE. YOU'RE PATHOLOGICAL AND INSANE!

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5129 on: December 31, 2018, 08:08:06 PM »
Painting brick? What is wrong with people these days!?!?

markbike528CBX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5130 on: December 31, 2018, 08:41:34 PM »
Painting brick? What is wrong with people these days!?!?

Agreed.

We had an rental apartment where the brick wall was painted flat white around the fireplace.   
DW repainted it to have brick-ish sort of colors, with "mortar lines" included.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5131 on: January 01, 2019, 02:22:59 AM »
Painting brick? What is wrong with people these days!?!?

Where we live, about every other house is painted. Most of them are painted... dark terracotta. You paint your bricks...brick coloured. An unpainted brick or stone exterior is on my dream house wish list. I have not got time to be painting things I don't have to.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5132 on: January 01, 2019, 04:06:14 AM »
Oh, no! Painting bricks and flagstone walkways are just wrong! The paint always peels off and it becomes an ugly mess. There will be areas where the paint will last forever and others that peel. We had a painted flagstone porch and it looked terrific when first painted a silver gray. Then with the heat of the summer and freezing temps of the winter it started to peel and pieces of paint would end up in the house. Finally, Hub got some kind of paint remover, let it sit and then power washed it off. Now it looks natural again. NO MORE PAINT on stones or brick! Removing it was a lot of work

Dixie_Amazon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5133 on: January 01, 2019, 08:08:34 AM »
Painted brick makes no sense to me either. and so many people have done it in our neighborhood. Nothing like ruining a low maintenance exterior.

Threshkin

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5134 on: January 01, 2019, 11:43:53 AM »
I had a house that had old indoor-outdoor carpet glued to the concrete front porch.  Removing the glue was a nightmare!

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5135 on: January 01, 2019, 01:38:19 PM »
Painting floors can last but $$$

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66867

We had to remove glued down green outdoor carpet from a house we owned. Took a big grinder with a wire brush. Maybe a pressure washer would have worked.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5136 on: January 01, 2019, 07:06:33 PM »
Painting floors can last but $$$

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66867

We had to remove glued down green outdoor carpet from a house we owned. Took a big grinder with a wire brush. Maybe a pressure washer would have worked.

We wound up using a chemical stripper.  Ugh....

Linea_Norway

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5137 on: January 02, 2019, 03:13:09 AM »
My BIL and his GF used to be frugal people and get all the stuff for their child second hand. But I get the impression now that they have started to change the last year. They now own 2 cars, although only one of them has a driver's license. One is electric for work and one is petrol for longer distances.
They now have a house cleaner. They just went on a 4 week vacation to South Africa with their kids, last possibility to travel long and far before the eldest child started at school.

I hope it won't continue in the wrong direction.

By the River

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5138 on: January 02, 2019, 08:40:52 AM »
Painted brick makes no sense to me either. and so many people have done it in our neighborhood. Nothing like ruining a low maintenance exterior.

My sister had a new subdivision built next to them.  The houses all have painted brick. A few of the houses were built with one section of red brick, another section of tan, etc. and then just painted.  So if (when) styles change and the new owners remove the paint, Surprise!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5139 on: January 02, 2019, 09:34:36 AM »
Painted brick makes no sense to me either. and so many people have done it in our neighborhood. Nothing like ruining a low maintenance exterior.

My sister had a new subdivision built next to them.  The houses all have painted brick. A few of the houses were built with one section of red brick, another section of tan, etc. and then just painted.  So if (when) styles change and the new owners remove the paint, Surprise!
Do you mean that these are brand new homes with painted brick?  That makes no sense.  Brick costs more, so why would you install it just to paint over it? 

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5140 on: January 02, 2019, 09:52:23 AM »
Painted brick makes no sense to me either. and so many people have done it in our neighborhood. Nothing like ruining a low maintenance exterior.

My sister had a new subdivision built next to them.  The houses all have painted brick. A few of the houses were built with one section of red brick, another section of tan, etc. and then just painted.  So if (when) styles change and the new owners remove the paint, Surprise!
Do you mean that these are brand new homes with painted brick?  That makes no sense.  Brick costs more, so why would you install it just to paint over it?
I blame HGTV. Fixer Upper was probably the worst offender, but there are plenty of others. i suspect HGTV's corporate motto is something along the lines of "Change is Good". That's because leaving well enough alone doesn't generate any revenue.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5141 on: January 02, 2019, 10:09:57 AM »
Painted brick makes no sense to me either. and so many people have done it in our neighborhood. Nothing like ruining a low maintenance exterior.

My sister had a new subdivision built next to them.  The houses all have painted brick. A few of the houses were built with one section of red brick, another section of tan, etc. and then just painted.  So if (when) styles change and the new owners remove the paint, Surprise!
Do you mean that these are brand new homes with painted brick?  That makes no sense.  Brick costs more, so why would you install it just to paint over it?
I blame HGTV. Fixer Upper was probably the worst offender, but there are plenty of others. i suspect HGTV's corporate motto is something along the lines of "Change is Good". That's because leaving well enough alone doesn't generate any revenue.

I wonder how many people don't use masonry paint and learn to regret it?

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5142 on: January 02, 2019, 03:44:05 PM »
I pretty much hate the look of brick and so when my mother painted their old brick fireplace mantel thingie white, I thought it was a big improvement. Then again, it was indoors and only used to store family photos, so it wasn’t exactly going to wear.

By the River

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5143 on: January 03, 2019, 09:00:00 AM »
Painted brick makes no sense to me either. and so many people have done it in our neighborhood. Nothing like ruining a low maintenance exterior.

My sister had a new subdivision built next to them.  The houses all have painted brick. A few of the houses were built with one section of red brick, another section of tan, etc. and then just painted.  So if (when) styles change and the new owners remove the paint, Surprise!
Do you mean that these are brand new homes with painted brick?  That makes no sense.  Brick costs more, so why would you install it just to paint over it?

Yes...new houses...new brick...painted!   I do not see the logic either. 

Abundant life

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5144 on: January 05, 2019, 08:13:18 PM »
My mom is a bit too frugal, at times.  (I can't believe I am saying this... me thinking someone is TOO frugal...).

I asked my father for a Christmas present, a life-safety emergency item that was more than I can afford (well, it is 2 months of my personal expenses, so a stretch when I am buying presents for my kids), and more than they usually spend on me for Christmas.    I was hoping he would say yes for three reasons:
1) He really wants me to be safe and healthy, and this relates to an activity we do together. 
2) I have just put in a lot of hours for free, for his side business. 
3) He spends about 4x that every month just giving away cash and things to other people who randomly ask him (through his church).. in addition to his generous church donations.   

He called me up, and said that he would buy it for me, mainly because of 1) life safety device that he can afford, and 2) it would not be a Christmas present, and 3) he was happy to know something that I wanted (I never ask for things).     Yay! right?!

My mom calls 2 days later and says that she saw my request and they will get it for me, but it will be for Christmas plus birthdays for the next one or two years.  ..um... yay?

I should be happy because I normally do not ask for anything, and that I normally get  practical clothing (shirt, pants) as my gift and I am really happy with that.  So this is a bonus, right?  Ack.  Feels too frugal to me to parse it out over several events...

.... I think I would have preferred a straight-out "no" to this trickle-out plan.   Maybe I should rescind it, but then I may stir up an argument between my parents... ah.   First world problems.

Could it be that they have to 'match' the amount with your siblings, and want to be fair?

kelvin

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5145 on: January 09, 2019, 08:17:41 AM »
When I was making min wage and taking handouts from my parents, I decided to be transparent with them about my expenses. So I was explaining to Dad about my bills.

Dad: Why are you so worried about an extra $100 here and there? You only need $3000/month to survive.
Me: Dad, I make min wage.
Dad: So?
Me: That's $1350/month.

His jaw hit the floor. The idiot honestly thought min wage was $3000/month.

My mother likes to make really emotional decisions - go back to school for a Masters in Arts, buy clothes and housewares on sale that she doesn't need, live paycheck to paycheck even though she's in her late 50s. Her favourite saying? "Money isn't everything".

True, money isn't everything, but if you found other ways to feel good that didn't cost so damn much you'd be in a much better place financially.

She's started using the phrase to guilt me for my choices. Things like moving across the province, having my own career, working two jobs to pay off student debt. According to her, I should work less, spend more, visit more often, and send her more gifts.

wenchsenior

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5146 on: January 09, 2019, 08:32:05 AM »
Painted brick makes no sense to me either. and so many people have done it in our neighborhood. Nothing like ruining a low maintenance exterior.

My sister had a new subdivision built next to them.  The houses all have painted brick. A few of the houses were built with one section of red brick, another section of tan, etc. and then just painted.  So if (when) styles change and the new owners remove the paint, Surprise!
Do you mean that these are brand new homes with painted brick?  That makes no sense.  Brick costs more, so why would you install it just to paint over it?

Yes...new houses...new brick...painted!   I do not see the logic either.

Does brick cost a lot? Almost every house built 1950s and later in our city is made of brick.  Housing is super cheap here in general, certainly including all the brick houses.  And by now, a good third of them have been painted.  A lot of the brick is really ugly, IMO, though I like the multicolored brick of our house (and we haven't painted it).

merula

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5147 on: January 09, 2019, 09:15:05 AM »
Does brick cost a lot? Almost every house built 1950s and later in our city is made of brick.  Housing is super cheap here in general, certainly including all the brick houses.  And by now, a good third of them have been painted.  A lot of the brick is really ugly, IMO, though I like the multicolored brick of our house (and we haven't painted it).

Brick is much more expensive now relative to other exterior options. Back in the first half of the twentieth century, brick was between cheap to middle-of-the-road; stone was the more expensive option and wood or stucco was cheaper. With the advent of aluminum and vinyl siding, average prices fell dramatically, partly because aluminum and vinyl are cheap and partly because they're lighter and so don't require as much support from the foundation and exterior walls.

If you wanted to build new, you'd be looking at around $5 per exterior sq ft for aluminum siding (installed), and about $15 per sq ft for brick veneer. If you wanted to do a full, real brick exterior, you'd be looking at more like $30 per sq ft, plus any additional structural costs, mostly because it takes about 100 hours of master bricklayer labor to do a 1,000 sq ft house.

Fun fact: in some states, your insurance can be required to repair or replace damage to your home with the same kinds of materials. My state, for example, is a "matching state"; the replacement material must be like kind and quality of the prior, AND must match any undamaged part. My house exterior is asbestos tiles, which they don't really make anymore. If I had, say, wind damage to the side of my house, my insurance would either need to find an exact match to what I have or replace all of the exterior to match what was damaged and replaced. (Luckily, asbestos tiles and brick are much less susceptible to many kinds of damage than aluminum and vinyl.)

Sugaree

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5148 on: January 09, 2019, 09:28:26 AM »

Fun fact: in some states, your insurance can be required to repair or replace damage to your home with the same kinds of materials. My state, for example, is a "matching state"; the replacement material must be like kind and quality of the prior, AND must match any undamaged part. My house exterior is asbestos tiles, which they don't really make anymore. If I had, say, wind damage to the side of my house, my insurance would either need to find an exact match to what I have or replace all of the exterior to match what was damaged and replaced. (Luckily, asbestos tiles and brick are much less susceptible to many kinds of damage than aluminum and vinyl.)

I live in one of those states.  The insurance company was able to match my brick, but at my neighbor's house they had to remove and replace the entire exterior.  I was kind of surprised that it only took about a week and a half, maybe.

accountingteacher

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5149 on: January 09, 2019, 11:16:57 AM »
When I was making min wage and taking handouts from my parents, I decided to be transparent with them about my expenses. So I was explaining to Dad about my bills.

Dad: Why are you so worried about an extra $100 here and there? You only need $3000/month to survive.
Me: Dad, I make min wage.
Dad: So?
Me: That's $1350/month.

His jaw hit the floor. The idiot honestly thought min wage was $3000/month.

My mother likes to make really emotional decisions - go back to school for a Masters in Arts, buy clothes and housewares on sale that she doesn't need, live paycheck to paycheck even though she's in her late 50s. Her favourite saying? "Money isn't everything".

True, money isn't everything, but if you found other ways to feel good that didn't cost so damn much you'd be in a much better place financially.

She's started using the phrase to guilt me for my choices. Things like moving across the province, having my own career, working two jobs to pay off student debt. According to her, I should work less, spend more, visit more often, and send her more gifts.

I have frequently found that people who say "Money isn't everything" use it as a defense mechanism to project their shame about being irresponsible with money onto those who are responsible with money.  It's almost a type of gaslighting. 
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 11:24:25 AM by accountingteacher »