Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 3478475 times)

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5050 on: November 29, 2018, 07:54:01 AM »
"We are being too happy here". THAT was funny...

Lincolnshire Girl

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5051 on: November 29, 2018, 08:30:14 AM »
New UK Poster here!

My parents have recently "retired" although both are still working part time jobs. A couple of weeks ago, I was a bit shocked to hear them admit that if one of them were to pass away, the other would not be able to afford their housing rent cost on a monthly basis. I was therefore rather confused when yesterday they told me they are (finally!) writing a will and will be leaving all of their money to me and my siblings. I'm not holding my breath on anything being surplus to their requirements. They clearly have no idea how long their money will last, how much they need to live on or what financial position they are actually in! They just bought a brand new car to see them through their old age.

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5052 on: November 29, 2018, 10:57:49 AM »
@mm1970 would you be willing to share the pattern / link for the pattern for the crocheted snowflakes?
So, I actually have a book of "99 crocheted snowflakes", that I bought in the 1990s and still have. That's what I use mostly!

But I've done some of these:
https://cleverlittlemouse.com/weekend-pinspiration-crochet-snowflake-pattern-roundup/


There are more here:
https://www.thesprucecrafts.com/crochet-snowflake-patterns-979130

http://beautifulcrochetstuff.com/5-free-crochet-snowflake-patterns/

Goldielocks

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5053 on: November 29, 2018, 10:58:34 AM »
My mom is a bit too frugal, at times.  (I can't believe I am saying this... me thinking someone is TOO frugal...).

I asked my father for a Christmas present, a life-safety emergency item that was more than I can afford (well, it is 2 months of my personal expenses, so a stretch when I am buying presents for my kids), and more than they usually spend on me for Christmas.    I was hoping he would say yes for three reasons:
1) He really wants me to be safe and healthy, and this relates to an activity we do together. 
2) I have just put in a lot of hours for free, for his side business. 
3) He spends about 4x that every month just giving away cash and things to other people who randomly ask him (through his church).. in addition to his generous church donations.   

He called me up, and said that he would buy it for me, mainly because of 1) life safety device that he can afford, and 2) it would not be a Christmas present, and 3) he was happy to know something that I wanted (I never ask for things).     Yay! right?!

My mom calls 2 days later and says that she saw my request and they will get it for me, but it will be for Christmas plus birthdays for the next one or two years.  ..um... yay?

I should be happy because I normally do not ask for anything, and that I normally get  practical clothing (shirt, pants) as my gift and I am really happy with that.  So this is a bonus, right?  Ack.  Feels too frugal to me to parse it out over several events...

.... I think I would have preferred a straight-out "no" to this trickle-out plan.   Maybe I should rescind it, but then I may stir up an argument between my parents... ah.   First world problems.

accountingteacher

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5054 on: November 29, 2018, 11:37:36 AM »
New UK Poster here!

My parents have recently "retired" although both are still working part time jobs. A couple of weeks ago, I was a bit shocked to hear them admit that if one of them were to pass away, the other would not be able to afford their housing rent cost on a monthly basis. I was therefore rather confused when yesterday they told me they are (finally!) writing a will and will be leaving all of their money to me and my siblings. I'm not holding my breath on anything being surplus to their requirements. They clearly have no idea how long their money will last, how much they need to live on or what financial position they are actually in! They just bought a brand new car to see them through their old age.

It is funny & frustrating that different people use such different definitions of "I can afford ...".

Years ago, DH expressed concern that SIL couldn't afford the McMansion they were buying.  Her response was "we can afford the house, we just don't have enough for the down payment."  Face-palm.

sherr

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5055 on: November 29, 2018, 11:38:27 AM »
.... I think I would have preferred a straight-out "no" to this trickle-out plan.   Maybe I should rescind it, but then I may stir up an argument between my parents... ah.   First world problems.

My take would be to accept the gift, be happy about it, and move on. They are getting you what you asked for. No one is under any obligation to give you things more often or on a particular schedule. There is no way that any response other than "Thank you!" would come across well.

Goldielocks

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5056 on: November 29, 2018, 02:06:10 PM »
.... I think I would have preferred a straight-out "no" to this trickle-out plan.   Maybe I should rescind it, but then I may stir up an argument between my parents... ah.   First world problems.

My take would be to accept the gift, be happy about it, and move on. They are getting you what you asked for. No one is under any obligation to give you things more often or on a particular schedule. There is no way that any response other than "Thank you!" would come across well.
I know!  but hearing a repeat over a couple of years of "you don't get a gift this year because I bought you a fancy gift last year" would turn my stomach a bit....   Much prefer a "happy birthday - here's your card"!

HappierAtHome

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5057 on: November 29, 2018, 11:11:13 PM »
@mm1970 would you be willing to share the pattern / link for the pattern for the crocheted snowflakes?
So, I actually have a book of "99 crocheted snowflakes", that I bought in the 1990s and still have. That's what I use mostly!

But I've done some of these:
https://cleverlittlemouse.com/weekend-pinspiration-crochet-snowflake-pattern-roundup/


There are more here:
https://www.thesprucecrafts.com/crochet-snowflake-patterns-979130

http://beautifulcrochetstuff.com/5-free-crochet-snowflake-patterns/

Thanks :-)

Maenad

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5058 on: November 30, 2018, 07:52:51 AM »
.... I think I would have preferred a straight-out "no" to this trickle-out plan.   Maybe I should rescind it, but then I may stir up an argument between my parents... ah.   First world problems.

My take would be to accept the gift, be happy about it, and move on. They are getting you what you asked for. No one is under any obligation to give you things more often or on a particular schedule. There is no way that any response other than "Thank you!" would come across well.

I'd be rather grumpy if my parents give way more than that monthly, unstintingly, to strangers, and then nickle and dime their own child.

Sugaree

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5059 on: November 30, 2018, 08:24:00 AM »
.... I think I would have preferred a straight-out "no" to this trickle-out plan.   Maybe I should rescind it, but then I may stir up an argument between my parents... ah.   First world problems.

My take would be to accept the gift, be happy about it, and move on. They are getting you what you asked for. No one is under any obligation to give you things more often or on a particular schedule. There is no way that any response other than "Thank you!" would come across well.
I know!  but hearing a repeat over a couple of years of "you don't get a gift this year because I bought you a fancy gift last year" would turn my stomach a bit....   Much prefer a "happy birthday - here's your card"!


MIL does that to DH.  It sucks for him.  A lot of times they'll buy him things that he doesn't really need and that will be his xmas present or birthday present.  A good example is last year, he ran his phone through the dishwasher (was watching a Youtube video on how to fix it and left the phone laying on the top rack and ran it through a cycle).  Instead of letting us handle it by getting a cheaper phone, they run out and buy him a brand new iPhone 8, when it had just come out, and told him that half of it was going to be his xmas/birthday present and he owed them $400 for the other half. 

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5060 on: November 30, 2018, 08:32:56 AM »
.... I think I would have preferred a straight-out "no" to this trickle-out plan.   Maybe I should rescind it, but then I may stir up an argument between my parents... ah.   First world problems.

My take would be to accept the gift, be happy about it, and move on. They are getting you what you asked for. No one is under any obligation to give you things more often or on a particular schedule. There is no way that any response other than "Thank you!" would come across well.
I know!  but hearing a repeat over a couple of years of "you don't get a gift this year because I bought you a fancy gift last year" would turn my stomach a bit....   Much prefer a "happy birthday - here's your card"!


MIL does that to DH.  It sucks for him.  A lot of times they'll buy him things that he doesn't really need and that will be his xmas present or birthday present.  A good example is last year, he ran his phone through the dishwasher (was watching a Youtube video on how to fix it and left the phone laying on the top rack and ran it through a cycle).  Instead of letting us handle it by getting a cheaper phone, they run out and buy him a brand new iPhone 8, when it had just come out, and told him that half of it was going to be his xmas/birthday present and he owed them $400 for the other half.
Wow, that is rather presumptuous.  At that point, I'd graciously reply "I really appreciate the thought, but we are not willing to spend $400 on a phone, and do not wish to place a similar burden on anyone else."

What it *deserves* is a "does it come with a gift receipt?" :P

marion10

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5061 on: November 30, 2018, 09:49:46 AM »
.... I think I would have preferred a straight-out "no" to this trickle-out plan.   Maybe I should rescind it, but then I may stir up an argument between my parents... ah.   First world problems.

My take would be to accept the gift, be happy about it, and move on. They are getting you what you asked for. No one is under any obligation to give you things more often or on a particular schedule. There is no way that any response other than "Thank you!" would come across well.

I'd be rather grumpy if my parents give way more than that monthly, unstintingly, to strangers, and then nickle and dime their own child.

Once I am an adult- my parents money is theirs to do as they see fit.  That's how I see it.

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5062 on: November 30, 2018, 10:29:24 AM »
Their money but beware of the con men with political, religious and financial promises. I see a gentle cognitive decline in my parents, my inlaws too and saw the same in my grandparents. There is a reason people target the elderly.

Expensive gifts where money is owed to cover part of the purchase price is crazy. A little planning before the purchase would go a long way. So would cash - you decide which (non)expensive item is wanted.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5063 on: November 30, 2018, 10:47:44 AM »

Expensive gifts where money is owed to cover part of the purchase price is crazy. A little planning before the purchase would go a long way. So would cash - you decide which (non)expensive item is wanted.

This, so much this.  My gifts to DD are totally based on what she wants/needs, and always discussed with her first - so I have given snow tires, coffee tables, etc. - or to be more precise, we discussed budgets and my limits, she bought the items and I forked over the money.  But she thinks of those gifts fondly, the snow tires included - what says caring more than being sure your beloved child is not at risk winter driving?

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5064 on: November 30, 2018, 10:51:56 AM »
How bizarre to give a gift and then ask for money. They should have given him 400 and left it up to your husband on how to spend it.

Sugaree

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5065 on: November 30, 2018, 11:40:26 AM »
.... I think I would have preferred a straight-out "no" to this trickle-out plan.   Maybe I should rescind it, but then I may stir up an argument between my parents... ah.   First world problems.

My take would be to accept the gift, be happy about it, and move on. They are getting you what you asked for. No one is under any obligation to give you things more often or on a particular schedule. There is no way that any response other than "Thank you!" would come across well.
I know!  but hearing a repeat over a couple of years of "you don't get a gift this year because I bought you a fancy gift last year" would turn my stomach a bit....   Much prefer a "happy birthday - here's your card"!


MIL does that to DH.  It sucks for him.  A lot of times they'll buy him things that he doesn't really need and that will be his xmas present or birthday present.  A good example is last year, he ran his phone through the dishwasher (was watching a Youtube video on how to fix it and left the phone laying on the top rack and ran it through a cycle).  Instead of letting us handle it by getting a cheaper phone, they run out and buy him a brand new iPhone 8, when it had just come out, and told him that half of it was going to be his xmas/birthday present and he owed them $400 for the other half.
Wow, that is rather presumptuous.  At that point, I'd graciously reply "I really appreciate the thought, but we are not willing to spend $400 on a phone, and do not wish to place a similar burden on anyone else."

What it *deserves* is a "does it come with a gift receipt?" :P

Funny.  That's exactly what I said.  But his family is his circus and his monkeys...

saguaro

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5066 on: November 30, 2018, 11:45:15 AM »
How bizarre to give a gift and then ask for money. They should have given him 400 and left it up to your husband on how to spend it.

Indeed.  Though once my in-laws gave us a gift and asked for it back a couple of years later.   They were on a roll with buying artwork and bought us this huge framed print.   We were in an apartment and were moving out soon so didn't want to hang it up, thereby putting holes in the walls that we would have to repair in a couple of months.   They visited and were mad that it wasn't up.  They asked for it back.  We told them we were moving and would hang it up on our new home which satisfied them though they would have not gotten it back in any case.

Many years later, the print is still not up.   The whole kerfuffle over it really pissed us off and seeing it only reminds us of that ridiculous situation. 

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5067 on: November 30, 2018, 12:44:46 PM »
Feel free to share more stories. ;)

DW and I have a few complicated relationships within the family. Stressful to deal with in the short term, a source of good eyerollers after a cooling off period.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5068 on: November 30, 2018, 01:50:20 PM »
Funny.  That's exactly what I said.  But his family is his circus and his monkeys...
Yeah, but that $400 comes out of your (plural) bank account.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5069 on: November 30, 2018, 02:17:08 PM »
How bizarre to give a gift and then ask for money. They should have given him 400 and left it up to your husband on how to spend it.

Indeed.  Though once my in-laws gave us a gift and asked for it back a couple of years later.   They were on a roll with buying artwork and bought us this huge framed print.   We were in an apartment and were moving out soon so didn't want to hang it up, thereby putting holes in the walls that we would have to repair in a couple of months.   They visited and were mad that it wasn't up.  They asked for it back.  We told them we were moving and would hang it up on our new home which satisfied them though they would have not gotten it back in any case.

Many years later, the print is still not up.   The whole kerfuffle over it really pissed us off and seeing it only reminds us of that ridiculous situation.

Why don't you just hang it up? I am sure they wanted to give you something nice and if you like it just hang it up.

Sugaree

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5070 on: December 01, 2018, 06:52:42 AM »
Funny.  That's exactly what I said.  But his family is his circus and his monkeys...
Yeah, but that $400 comes out of your (plural) bank account.

Nah, it comes out of his discretionary money.  Really, I suspect that a portion of it as "worked off" by doing stuff around their house.

saguaro

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5071 on: December 02, 2018, 09:17:14 AM »
How bizarre to give a gift and then ask for money. They should have given him 400 and left it up to your husband on how to spend it.

Indeed.  Though once my in-laws gave us a gift and asked for it back a couple of years later.   They were on a roll with buying artwork and bought us this huge framed print.   We were in an apartment and were moving out soon so didn't want to hang it up, thereby putting holes in the walls that we would have to repair in a couple of months.   They visited and were mad that it wasn't up.  They asked for it back.  We told them we were moving and would hang it up on our new home which satisfied them though they would have not gotten it back in any case.

Many years later, the print is still not up.   The whole kerfuffle over it really pissed us off and seeing it only reminds us of that ridiculous situation.

Why don't you just hang it up? I am sure they wanted to give you something nice and if you like it just hang it up.

Well there is still the chance of that I am thinking.  In spite of years of decluttering, it's still around, safe in a box, and it's DH's decision on whether it stays or goes, I won't do anything with it.  Thus far he hasn't wanted to part with it either. 

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5072 on: December 02, 2018, 10:39:27 AM »
...  A lot of times they'll buy him things that he doesn't really need and that will be his xmas present or birthday present.  A good example is last year, he ran his phone through the dishwasher (was watching a Youtube video on how to fix it and left the phone laying on the top rack and ran it through a cycle).  Instead of letting us handle it by getting a cheaper phone, they run out and buy him a brand new iPhone 8, when it had just come out, and told him that half of it was going to be his xmas/birthday present and he owed them $400 for the other half.
Wow!  That's a serious lack of class.


My parents were visiting over Christmas some years back. I had bought him a nice scroll saw for his shop.   I knew he didn't have one.


When I gave it to him, he pompously informed me that he had bought a better one for himself already.   He didn't want it.


Okey-dokey.   So I took him back to Lowes with me and returned it.   And didn't buy him anything else.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5073 on: December 02, 2018, 11:40:52 AM »
How bizarre to give a gift and then ask for money. They should have given him 400 and left it up to your husband on how to spend it.

Indeed.  Though once my in-laws gave us a gift and asked for it back a couple of years later.   They were on a roll with buying artwork and bought us this huge framed print.   We were in an apartment and were moving out soon so didn't want to hang it up, thereby putting holes in the walls that we would have to repair in a couple of months.   They visited and were mad that it wasn't up.  They asked for it back.  We told them we were moving and would hang it up on our new home which satisfied them though they would have not gotten it back in any case.

Many years later, the print is still not up.   The whole kerfuffle over it really pissed us off and seeing it only reminds us of that ridiculous situation.

Why don't you just hang it up? I am sure they wanted to give you something nice and if you like it just hang it up.

Well there is still the chance of that I am thinking.  In spite of years of decluttering, it's still around, safe in a box, and it's DH's decision on whether it stays or goes, I won't do anything with it.  Thus far he hasn't wanted to part with it either.

Why don't you talk to your SO and make plans to put it up. Get it up before the new year, invite your in laws over for some reason and let them see it up. Put closure to the whole thing and enjoy knowing that chapter is closed. Put a positive spin on it, have a few glasses of wine then watch some Netflix! Life is too short to dwell on dumb things.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5074 on: December 09, 2018, 03:02:27 AM »
Someone I know through family has always had a spending problem.

She is in her 60s, single, morbidly obese, worked low-paying jobs, and spent every dollar she had trying to spend her way out of her miserable life. Gambling debt, a new car with a loan, and buying jewellery, linen, electronics, and clothes on credit cards.

As her weight increased and her health deteriorated, she could no longer work, and was in danger of losing her house.

Her family bailed her out on the condition she stick to a budget.

She had a heart attack recently, so family travelled from interstate to be with her, and her sister let herself in to feed the cat.

She found not one but four pedigree cats. Cat urine and feces everywhere: the floor, the furniture, the overflowing litter trays.

The lounge room was piled high with shopping bags: thousands of dollars of new linen, still in their packets, but ruined by cat urine.

Mounds of clothes everywhere. Apparently she had given up washing and just bought new outfits instead.

Dozens and dozens of new rings, watches, necklaces, etc.

Her sister realised the spending was out of control, and started looking through paperwork.

Found a receipt for a $10,000 bedroom suite the woman had bought a few months earlier, and a letter from the furniture company asking her to arrange delivery because it was still sitting in their warehouse. (She couldn't let them deliver it because that would have meant letting someone inside the house).

And the sister found paperwork for another new car, $10,000 on top of the trade-in.

The family has already planned to have the house bulldozed when she dies, and just hope they can recoup enough from the sale of the land to pay for the demolition.

It's a sad story of ill health, weight complications, depression and other mental illness, and squalor, and it's all magnified because this woman thought she could buy happiness with a few shiny things.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 02:33:03 PM by mustachepungoeshere »

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5075 on: December 11, 2018, 03:10:02 AM »
This belongs in the subforum Antimustachian Wall of Tragedy.

debtfreejess

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5076 on: December 16, 2018, 09:13:58 AM »
Oh goodness - just discovered this thread and I've got about 24 years of frustration at my dad to unload, so buckle up.

My dad is one of those people where he really does seem to have a string of bad luck, but made 10x worse by his own poor decisions. He grew up pretty poor (dad was a minister, mom a SAHM), which is always resented and has since developed a pretty serious hoarding and spending addiction - more on that later.

He and my mom divorced when I was 6 and split custody 50/50, so he became a single parent, which he was not prepared for. He loved us and was trying his best, but didn't "get" the really basics of childrearing, even when my brother and I were pretty explicit about what we wanted and needed. To start, the house was absolutely packed with stuff. In a three bedroom condo, he had about a dozen guitars, a massive workout system he never used, approximately 5,000 books, over 1,000 DVDs and VHS, 200 fishing rods, etc. My brother and I shared a room with a bunk bed and we shared a bunk because he would buy us so much crap that we had to store some of it on the top bunk. Any time we tried to throw something out or donate it, he would intercept and lecture us about how he had spent a lot of money on it and it was going to be a collectible one day. Because of his resentment about his own poverty, he would constantly buy us stuff we never asked for, but didn't really get the basics.

My brother and I never wanted anything physical - we had some specific requests, but those were things like:

  • Our own rooms when we were teenagers and since we're opposite genders
  • A house that was clean enough to make us not feel ill or that we could have friends over
  • Room on the dining room table to have family meals together
  • To be dropped off at school on time, rather than 15 minutes late every single day
  • The ability to toss expired food out of the fridge
  • Re-home our incredibly hyper dog, who had no yard in that house and peed and pooped everywhere and was a nervous wreck with all the pent up energy
  • Clothes that fit us

Unfortunately, my dad never saw fit to give us any of the above, but he did decide that we needed the following:

  • Tickets to two different Rolling Stones concerts, both when we were under 13 years old (we like the band alot, but both fell asleep at both concerts since we were so young)
  • TV in every single room of the house
  • Every kitchen gadget under the sun
  • Tickets for other expensive shows (Ringley Brothers, Harlem Globetrotters)
  • A new suit every time he had a job interview (he was unemployed or underemployed for about 10 years, so there were a lot of suits)

A couple years after the divorce, he decided to go back to school for business, ultimately getting his MBA (yay!). However, it took him about 8 years to finish, worked only part time the whole time, and he took out the maximum amount of student loans he could and lived off whatever was left after paying tuition, without ever applying for grants or scholarships (boo!). Unfortunately, he discovered that the entry level jobs for someone in their early 50s with a new degree and no prior experience paid less than his base expenses, so to date, he has not used his business degree. He did find full time work about 10 years ago, thank god, but has saved pretty much no money and maxed out his credit cards.

Fast forward to today - both my brother and I have moved out and live on our own. Due to our age, we are both still on his dental insurance plan, but have otherwise received no aid or help from him (not that we need or want it). As soon as we were gone, he very quickly filled our room with more crap and stuff. Fortunately, he is too proud to ask his kids for money, but he complains about how broke he is frequently, while also doing the following:

  • He has a boat in the garage that has not been on the water in over a decade and likely does not run anymore. He will not sell it because "he could never afford a boat like that again"
  • He has two gas guzzling cars (Tahoe and a Pilot), one of which is constantly getting tickets/towed because he forgets to move it for street cleaning. Will not sell the older/crappier Tahoe because "the Pilot can't tow the boat"
  • Probably spends $200-$500/mo on various collections, including hats, knives, musical instruments and accessories, and books. Currently has more books than he could possibly read in his lifetime
  • Hoards mail and never reads it, so constantly paying fines for late payments, missed appointments, etc.
  • Pays for premium cable, even though there is no show he really enjoys watching, he just wants the noise, I guess

He is also the type that always has advice for everyone else's finances and is baffled that it never works out for him. For example, after the 2016 election, he sold all of his stocks/funds and subsequently missed out on the 20%+ boom in the market. When my fiance and I started looking for a house, he first told us that we would never be able to put 20% down on a place in LA, then he offered to buy one with us so he could get out of his horrible condo and HOA. I politely nodded at the first (we just bought a house under market value with 19% down after two years of saving) and politely declined the offer (there is no way I'm tying my finances to his or dealing with his hoard). Unfortunately, he has a lot of health problems already and practically no savings, so I imagine my brother and I will have to support him to some degree when he eventually retires. In the meantime, every time he acquires some new piece of crap, I imagine the months its going to take us to clear out his place when he passes away, and I get angry thinking that I have to plan to support him financially because he doesn't see how every money decision he makes is the wrong one.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5077 on: December 16, 2018, 09:41:28 AM »
Oh goodness - just discovered this thread and I've got about 24 years of frustration at my dad to unload, so buckle up.

My dad is one of those people where he really does seem to have a string of bad luck, but made 10x worse by his own poor decisions. He grew up pretty poor (dad was a minister, mom a SAHM), which is always resented and has since developed a pretty serious hoarding and spending addiction - more on that later.

He and my mom divorced when I was 6 and split custody 50/50, so he became a single parent, which he was not prepared for. He loved us and was trying his best, but didn't "get" the really basics of childrearing, even when my brother and I were pretty explicit about what we wanted and needed. To start, the house was absolutely packed with stuff. In a three bedroom condo, he had about a dozen guitars, a massive workout system he never used, approximately 5,000 books, over 1,000 DVDs and VHS, 200 fishing rods, etc. My brother and I shared a room with a bunk bed and we shared a bunk because he would buy us so much crap that we had to store some of it on the top bunk. Any time we tried to throw something out or donate it, he would intercept and lecture us about how he had spent a lot of money on it and it was going to be a collectible one day. Because of his resentment about his own poverty, he would constantly buy us stuff we never asked for, but didn't really get the basics.

My brother and I never wanted anything physical - we had some specific requests, but those were things like:

  • Our own rooms when we were teenagers and since we're opposite genders
  • A house that was clean enough to make us not feel ill or that we could have friends over
  • Room on the dining room table to have family meals together
  • To be dropped off at school on time, rather than 15 minutes late every single day
  • The ability to toss expired food out of the fridge
  • Re-home our incredibly hyper dog, who had no yard in that house and peed and pooped everywhere and was a nervous wreck with all the pent up energy
  • Clothes that fit us

Unfortunately, my dad never saw fit to give us any of the above, but he did decide that we needed the following:

  • Tickets to two different Rolling Stones concerts, both when we were under 13 years old (we like the band alot, but both fell asleep at both concerts since we were so young)
  • TV in every single room of the house
  • Every kitchen gadget under the sun
  • Tickets for other expensive shows (Ringley Brothers, Harlem Globetrotters)
  • A new suit every time he had a job interview (he was unemployed or underemployed for about 10 years, so there were a lot of suits)

A couple years after the divorce, he decided to go back to school for business, ultimately getting his MBA (yay!). However, it took him about 8 years to finish, worked only part time the whole time, and he took out the maximum amount of student loans he could and lived off whatever was left after paying tuition, without ever applying for grants or scholarships (boo!). Unfortunately, he discovered that the entry level jobs for someone in their early 50s with a new degree and no prior experience paid less than his base expenses, so to date, he has not used his business degree. He did find full time work about 10 years ago, thank god, but has saved pretty much no money and maxed out his credit cards.

Fast forward to today - both my brother and I have moved out and live on our own. Due to our age, we are both still on his dental insurance plan, but have otherwise received no aid or help from him (not that we need or want it). As soon as we were gone, he very quickly filled our room with more crap and stuff. Fortunately, he is too proud to ask his kids for money, but he complains about how broke he is frequently, while also doing the following:

  • He has a boat in the garage that has not been on the water in over a decade and likely does not run anymore. He will not sell it because "he could never afford a boat like that again"
  • He has two gas guzzling cars (Tahoe and a Pilot), one of which is constantly getting tickets/towed because he forgets to move it for street cleaning. Will not sell the older/crappier Tahoe because "the Pilot can't tow the boat"
  • Probably spends $200-$500/mo on various collections, including hats, knives, musical instruments and accessories, and books. Currently has more books than he could possibly read in his lifetime
  • Hoards mail and never reads it, so constantly paying fines for late payments, missed appointments, etc.
  • Pays for premium cable, even though there is no show he really enjoys watching, he just wants the noise, I guess

He is also the type that always has advice for everyone else's finances and is baffled that it never works out for him. For example, after the 2016 election, he sold all of his stocks/funds and subsequently missed out on the 20%+ boom in the market. When my fiance and I started looking for a house, he first told us that we would never be able to put 20% down on a place in LA, then he offered to buy one with us so he could get out of his horrible condo and HOA. I politely nodded at the first (we just bought a house under market value with 19% down after two years of saving) and politely declined the offer (there is no way I'm tying my finances to his or dealing with his hoard). Unfortunately, he has a lot of health problems already and practically no savings, so I imagine my brother and I will have to support him to some degree when he eventually retires. In the meantime, every time he acquires some new piece of crap, I imagine the months its going to take us to clear out his place when he passes away, and I get angry thinking that I have to plan to support him financially because he doesn't see how every money decision he makes is the wrong one.

This sounds bad. It must be hard for you to see your parent take such a speedy dive downhill.
Good for you that you did not let him join the house deal...

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5078 on: December 16, 2018, 09:47:32 AM »
I wouldn’t plan to ever support him.  When he gets so he can’t afford his bills he can sell his condo and move into a low income senior housing apartment. 

ysette9

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5079 on: December 16, 2018, 10:30:48 AM »
Wow, what a story. I am so sorry you dealt with this growing up.

I don’t have to walk in your shoes, but if i did I would advise you to draw very firm, clear boundaries in your mind and with him about what you will and will not do for your father in the future. I would be inclined to offer no financial support whatsoever unless it is in the form of pre-purchased groceries or something that he can’t get his hands on. He has a long, solid track record of financial disaster, so anything you give him would only feed his disease.

If you are getting married then you are forming your own family which now takes precedent over your parents. I would be very upset as a spouse if I married someone who gave our joint household money to a walking disaster like that unless we had had deep discussions in advance of what we were both willing to do.

Finally, what if every time he complains about having money you offer to sell off some piece of junk for him to raise funds? The Tahoe, the boat, the gym set, the 100 guitars, the fishing poles, etc.? I’m sure he won’t take you up on it but if you repeat if ad naseum then  maybe he will get the message that financial outpatient care will not be coming from you and that perhaps he needs to look at his own actions as they relate to the problem he finds himself in.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5080 on: December 16, 2018, 12:15:36 PM »
Wow, what a story. I am so sorry you dealt with this growing up.

I don’t have to walk in your shoes, but if i did I would advise you to draw very firm, clear boundaries in your mind and with him about what you will and will not do for your father in the future. I would be inclined to offer no financial support whatsoever unless it is in the form of pre-purchased groceries or something that he can’t get his hands on. He has a long, solid track record of financial disaster, so anything you give him would only feed his disease.

If you are getting married then you are forming your own family which now takes precedent over your parents. I would be very upset as a spouse if I married someone who gave our joint household money to a walking disaster like that unless we had had deep discussions in advance of what we were both willing to do.

Finally, what if every time he complains about having money you offer to sell off some piece of junk for him to raise funds? The Tahoe, the boat, the gym set, the 100 guitars, the fishing poles, etc.? I’m sure he won’t take you up on it but if you repeat if ad naseum then  maybe he will get the message that financial outpatient care will not be coming from you and that perhaps he needs to look at his own actions as they relate to the problem he finds himself in.

Got it in one!

Hula Hoop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5081 on: December 16, 2018, 02:36:15 PM »
Wow debtfreejess - I'm so sorry that  you had to deal with that growing up.  Ysette gives great advice.  Maybe one thing you could consider paying for, if he agrees, is counselling.  It may be too late but it sounds like he has an addiction.

Dave1442397

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5082 on: December 17, 2018, 11:06:26 AM »
Wow, what a story. I am so sorry you dealt with this growing up.

I don’t have to walk in your shoes, but if i did I would advise you to draw very firm, clear boundaries in your mind and with him about what you will and will not do for your father in the future. I would be inclined to offer no financial support whatsoever unless it is in the form of pre-purchased groceries or something that he can’t get his hands on. He has a long, solid track record of financial disaster, so anything you give him would only feed his disease.

If you are getting married then you are forming your own family which now takes precedent over your parents. I would be very upset as a spouse if I married someone who gave our joint household money to a walking disaster like that unless we had had deep discussions in advance of what we were both willing to do.

Finally, what if every time he complains about having money you offer to sell off some piece of junk for him to raise funds? The Tahoe, the boat, the gym set, the 100 guitars, the fishing poles, etc.? I’m sure he won’t take you up on it but if you repeat if ad naseum then  maybe he will get the message that financial outpatient care will not be coming from you and that perhaps he needs to look at his own actions as they relate to the problem he finds himself in.

+1. You want to stay as far away from that mess as possible, at least from a financial perspective.

debtfreejess

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5083 on: December 17, 2018, 11:41:10 AM »
@Cassie - I wish. Unfortunately, he's re-financed the condo almost a half dozen times in the last 30 years and pulled out equity every time to live off of. So even if he sells it (which will be a pretty low price in its current condition), there won't be much of a cash cushion to be gained.

@ysette9 - Thanks for the kind words. I agree entirely. My partner and I talk about my dad a lot - fortunately, they both get along, but I've made it clear that I'm not going to sink our family to keep my dad afloat. I've already had conversations with him about his junk and that if he ever needed to move in with me, his hoard is not coming with him. My dad's grace in all this is that he really has never asked me for any money or support - he's only ever gotten birthday and Christmas presents from me, as well as a little help in the form of labor here and there.

@Hula Hoop - Thanks for the thoughts. My dad has actually been in therapy for over 15 years for depression, etc. My suspicion is that the therapist doesn't know how bad his hoarding is, since all that information is coming from my dad and he waffles back and forth in seeing it as a problem. 

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5084 on: December 17, 2018, 12:02:37 PM »
It might be a good idea to get him on a waiting list for senior housing if he will agree. The wait can be a couple of years or more. I am sorry you are in this situation. When things blow up I would help him access services.

FireHiker

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5085 on: December 17, 2018, 12:15:14 PM »
@debtfreejess  Welcome to the MMM Board! I'm sorry to read about your situation with your dad. My mom is similar, and you'll find there are several of us around here with parents who will never really be financially stable who make baffling decisions. My mom has definitely had some bad luck over the years, but the way you put it about making things 10x worse with bad choices on top of it describes her exactly. Life may give you a cactus but that doesn't mean you have to choose to sit on it...and it's hard when you see your own parent make that choice over and over.

faithless

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5086 on: December 17, 2018, 12:25:16 PM »
Life may give you a cactus but that doesn't mean you have to choose to sit on it...and it's hard when you see your own parent make that choice over and over.

Very serious subject, but this quote did make me smile

FireHiker

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5087 on: December 17, 2018, 03:19:51 PM »
Life may give you a cactus but that doesn't mean you have to choose to sit on it...and it's hard when you see your own parent make that choice over and over.

Very serious subject, but this quote did make me smile

Ha ha, thanks. I didn't make it up myself, but when I heard it I couldn't help but think how accurately it reflected my mother!

Freedomin5

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5088 on: December 19, 2018, 02:18:16 AM »
Argh...just need to vent...

The Background:
We pay for tutoring for a young family member who is at risk of failing high school because he stays up all night gaming, can’t wake up for school the next morning, lives in a volatile household, and his mom says “growing boys need their sleep” and doesn’t make him go to school. This kid recently (last year) got a high end gaming computer. He also has an older laptop, a tablet, and a smart phone. Mom is on government assistance and they live with grandma practically rent-free. Kid is currently doing online courses after failing out of grade nine because he is a delicate snowflake who can’t handle the rough highschool environment. We spend about $100/week on intensive tutoring for the kid to help him keep on top of his assignments because there’s no way this kid can manage a self-study program.

Today, we received a message from the kid asking us to buy him a MacBook “so that he can study better and pass his courses”. Basically, the message said that he is currently behind because:

1) it’s the computer’s fault because it’s too slow to go online and write word documents (computer from 2016/2017)
2) it’s the house’s fault because he can study better at the library (already suggested to him in August when he had multiple excuses why it wouldn’t work)
3) it’s the desk’s fault because the “desk isn’t good for writing on” (what the heck does that even mean?!?! And why would you need to write on a desk if you’re doing ONLINE courses?)

We are going to say no and point out that we spent his MacBook money on his tutoring.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 02:20:17 AM by Freedomin5 »

Dave1442397

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5089 on: December 19, 2018, 05:25:52 AM »
Today, we received a message from the kid asking us to buy him a MacBook “so that he can study better and pass his courses”. Basically, the message said that he is currently behind because:

1) it’s the computer’s fault because it’s too slow to go online and write word documents (computer from 2016/2017)
2) it’s the house’s fault because he can study better at the library (already suggested to him in August when he had multiple excuses why it wouldn’t work)
3) it’s the desk’s fault because the “desk isn’t good for writing on” (what the heck does that even mean?!?! And why would you need to write on a desk if you’re doing ONLINE courses?)

We are going to say no and point out that we spent his MacBook money on his tutoring.

Hate to say it, but he doesn't sound like he's taking any of this seriously right now. He's using your tuition support as an excuse to play games and skip school, and now he's using the computer/house/desk as excuses for failing even with tuition support. I don't see this changing until the economic support stops and he finds out that in the real world, no one is handing you money for nothing.

Freedomin5

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5090 on: December 19, 2018, 05:40:22 AM »
Today, we received a message from the kid asking us to buy him a MacBook “so that he can study better and pass his courses”. Basically, the message said that he is currently behind because:

1) it’s the computer’s fault because it’s too slow to go online and write word documents (computer from 2016/2017)
2) it’s the house’s fault because he can study better at the library (already suggested to him in August when he had multiple excuses why it wouldn’t work)
3) it’s the desk’s fault because the “desk isn’t good for writing on” (what the heck does that even mean?!?! And why would you need to write on a desk if you’re doing ONLINE courses?)

We are going to say no and point out that we spent his MacBook money on his tutoring.

Hate to say it, but he doesn't sound like he's taking any of this seriously right now. He's using your tuition support as an excuse to play games and skip school, and now he's using the computer/house/desk as excuses for failing even with tuition support. I don't see this changing until the economic support stops and he finds out that in the real world, no one is handing you money for nothing.

Yup, as part of our response to him, we are going to advise him to get a part-time job and save up for the luxuries he wants. If he fails grade nine even with tutoring then that’s it. He’s used up his one chance and the tutoring stops.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5091 on: December 19, 2018, 06:03:05 AM »
It sounds like the only thing that will help him is getting him out of a household that lets him stay up all night and then sleep in the next day and miss school.  Which is not a situation you can solve, unfortunately.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5092 on: December 19, 2018, 07:11:39 AM »
It sounds like the only thing that will help him is getting him out of a household that lets him stay up all night and then sleep in the next day and miss school.  Which is not a situation you can solve, unfortunately.

Contact his local department of child services and report that he's missing school because of what his mom does.    Maybe the law will solve the problem, one way or the other.  Doesn't sound like the mom will.


Slow&Steady

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5093 on: December 19, 2018, 07:31:09 AM »
It sounds like the only thing that will help him is getting him out of a household that lets him stay up all night and then sleep in the next day and miss school.  Which is not a situation you can solve, unfortunately.

Contact his local department of child services and report that he's missing school because of what his mom does.    Maybe the law will solve the problem, one way or the other.  Doesn't sound like the mom will.

As a foster parent (to a kid that some how dropped out after failing freshman year, but will finally graduate at the age of 20), removing that kid from his family might eventually help him get a high school diploma/GED but it 100% will create an entirely different and potentially longer list of issues.  The "system" is completely screwed up and although that kid not graduating from high school will negatively impact the rest of his life it is not a reason to remove him from his parents and create the trauma that that involves.  There is scientific research out that proves that removing a kid from his parents/home is very traumatic event and will cause lasting damage to the developing brain, unless that kid is in real danger while living in that house it is absolutely better for him to stay in the home. 

If @Freedomin5 wants to help this young teen, finding a way to do that without money (and without trying to have the kid removed from his mom/grandma) would probably be best.  I get the impression that FN5 does not live near the kid, if they do the best help would be to provide support in physically being present for the kid. Go to the house after work and sit down to work on homework with him, call him daily and ask how schoolwork is going, pick him up on weekends and go visit colleges, go shoot a basketball with him for a hour or two, teach him how to drive (if he is old enough), go with him to pick up job applications, find out if there is an HR person at a local factory or other employer that you 2 can go interview together, etc.

AMandM

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5094 on: December 19, 2018, 08:58:58 AM »
My gifts to DD are totally based on what she wants/needs, and always discussed with her first - so I have given snow tires, coffee tables, etc. - or to be more precise, we discussed budgets and my limits, she bought the items and I forked over the money.  But she thinks of those gifts fondly, the snow tires included - what says caring more than being sure your beloved child is not at risk winter driving?

I have a friend whose boyfriend bought her pretty earrings for Christmas the first year they were dating. The second year, when they were much more serious, he said something about the Christmas present he had picked out for her that made her think it might be an engagement ring. She was all happy and excited and full of anticipation.  Come Christmas, he gives a box much bigger than a ring would need. Somewhat puzzled, she unwraps it and finds... a set of jumper cables.

In the moment, she was pretty taken aback, but she recognized that it meant he cared about her. He knew she was driving an old car on country roads every day, and he didn't want her to get stuck out in the boonies. They did get engaged later, and they've been married for over 30 years.

When she was telling me this story, her husband interrupted to say that you can give earrings to any girl, but the jumper cables were chosen for her particular situation. Also, as a percentage of his disposable cash, the cables were much bigger than the earrings, because he chose heavy-duty, reliable ones.  My friend agreed, and said they still have those cables today.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5095 on: December 19, 2018, 09:07:40 AM »
My gifts to DD are totally based on what she wants/needs, and always discussed with her first - so I have given snow tires, coffee tables, etc. - or to be more precise, we discussed budgets and my limits, she bought the items and I forked over the money.  But she thinks of those gifts fondly, the snow tires included - what says caring more than being sure your beloved child is not at risk winter driving?

When she was telling me this story, her husband interrupted to say that you can give earrings to any girl, but the jumper cables were chosen for her particular situation. Also, as a percentage of his disposable cash, the cables were much bigger than the earrings, because he chose heavy-duty, reliable ones.  My friend agreed, and said they still have those cables today.

He gets major brownie points for that gift - he thought of her situation, he wanted her to be safe driving, he got the expensive heavy-duty ones instead of the cheapies.  He showed he cared.

AMandM

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5096 on: December 19, 2018, 09:16:34 AM »
Finally, what if every time he complains about having money you offer to sell off some piece of junk for him to raise funds? The Tahoe, the boat, the gym set, the 100 guitars, the fishing poles, etc.? I’m sure he won’t take you up on it but if you repeat if ad naseum then  maybe he will get the message that financial outpatient care will not be coming from you and that perhaps he needs to look at his own actions as they relate to the problem he finds himself in.

He did say they'd be collectibles.  Time to sell them to a different collector!

In all seriousness, OP, I'm sorry you're in this situation but glad you and your fiance are facing it together.

partgypsy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5097 on: December 19, 2018, 12:13:31 PM »
My gifts to DD are totally based on what she wants/needs, and always discussed with her first - so I have given snow tires, coffee tables, etc. - or to be more precise, we discussed budgets and my limits, she bought the items and I forked over the money.  But she thinks of those gifts fondly, the snow tires included - what says caring more than being sure your beloved child is not at risk winter driving?

When she was telling me this story, her husband interrupted to say that you can give earrings to any girl, but the jumper cables were chosen for her particular situation. Also, as a percentage of his disposable cash, the cables were much bigger than the earrings, because he chose heavy-duty, reliable ones.  My friend agreed, and said they still have those cables today.

He gets major brownie points for that gift - he thought of her situation, he wanted her to be safe driving, he got the expensive heavy-duty ones instead of the cheapies.  He showed he cared.

That actually is a sweet story. The guy I'm seeing, there is a 0% chance he would buy me jewelry. But, he helped me renovate my kitchen including making a place for a dishwasher so I'm not chained to the sink doing dishes every day. Bought and helped install nice and more secure front and back doors on my house. Also helped with multiple house emergencies and a car emergency. I really appreciate if he says he's going to do something, even if there are complications or a delay, he does it. In fact I'm still not used to it.

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5098 on: December 19, 2018, 01:09:52 PM »
Today, we received a message from the kid asking us to buy him a MacBook “so that he can study better and pass his courses”. Basically, the message said that he is currently behind because:

1) it’s the computer’s fault because it’s too slow to go online and write word documents (computer from 2016/2017)
2) it’s the house’s fault because he can study better at the library (already suggested to him in August when he had multiple excuses why it wouldn’t work)
3) it’s the desk’s fault because the “desk isn’t good for writing on” (what the heck does that even mean?!?! And why would you need to write on a desk if you’re doing ONLINE courses?)

We are going to say no and point out that we spent his MacBook money on his tutoring.

Hate to say it, but he doesn't sound like he's taking any of this seriously right now. He's using your tuition support as an excuse to play games and skip school, and now he's using the computer/house/desk as excuses for failing even with tuition support. I don't see this changing until the economic support stops and he finds out that in the real world, no one is handing you money for nothing.

Yup, as part of our response to him, we are going to advise him to get a part-time job and save up for the luxuries he wants. If he fails grade nine even with tutoring then that’s it. He’s used up his one chance and the tutoring stops.

What's the quote...never work harder for someone else than they are willing to work for themselves?

Freedomin5

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5099 on: December 20, 2018, 12:14:47 AM »
It sounds like the only thing that will help him is getting him out of a household that lets him stay up all night and then sleep in the next day and miss school.  Which is not a situation you can solve, unfortunately.

Contact his local department of child services and report that he's missing school because of what his mom does.    Maybe the law will solve the problem, one way or the other.  Doesn't sound like the mom will.

As a foster parent (to a kid that some how dropped out after failing freshman year, but will finally graduate at the age of 20), removing that kid from his family might eventually help him get a high school diploma/GED but it 100% will create an entirely different and potentially longer list of issues.  The "system" is completely screwed up and although that kid not graduating from high school will negatively impact the rest of his life it is not a reason to remove him from his parents and create the trauma that that involves.  There is scientific research out that proves that removing a kid from his parents/home is very traumatic event and will cause lasting damage to the developing brain, unless that kid is in real danger while living in that house it is absolutely better for him to stay in the home. 

If @Freedomin5 wants to help this young teen, finding a way to do that without money (and without trying to have the kid removed from his mom/grandma) would probably be best.  I get the impression that FN5 does not live near the kid, if they do the best help would be to provide support in physically being present for the kid. Go to the house after work and sit down to work on homework with him, call him daily and ask how schoolwork is going, pick him up on weekends and go visit colleges, go shoot a basketball with him for a hour or two, teach him how to drive (if he is old enough), go with him to pick up job applications, find out if there is an HR person at a local factory or other employer that you 2 can go interview together, etc.

@Slow&Steady is spot on. We live on the other side of the world and only see the kid once a year. We do check in with him via Skype every other week. We are in contact with the tutor, and pay her directly (rather than giving mom or the kid the money). If we lived in the country, we would be at that kids house every day working on homework. Heck, I would even drive the kid to school myself. I’d be visiting teachers and school admin and being that squeaky wheel with his teachers. We considered offering to pay for boarding school, but this kid and his mom have other emotional issues, and mom would not let kid leave her side. So we do what we can.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!