Relatives who just don't get it

[Hula Hoop]

Fredbear - fom what I understand, the Chinese community here in my town works similarly.  I think other immigrant communities are similar.

[TomTX]

My other aunt can't seem to even stay in the same house for more than a few years. She will buy an expensive, large house (uncle is deceased - it's just her and one small dog) - perform expensive redecorating and kitchen renovation. Within  a couple of years she's not happy with the house anymore and will repeat the process.

Of course, one of her "best friends" is a Realtor(tm).

Doesn't seem like a problem as long as she's making a profit after the sale.

I highly doubt she's making a profit. It's not like she's flipping them. She'll take perfectly nice, excellent cabinets, granite countertops and tile floor and replace with different cabinets, granite countertops and tile floor. Replace perfectly nice, nearly pristine neutral carpet with different carpet. Nothing that I would see as raising the value.  I'd ballpark she's spending at least 15% of the house value doing so. Plus all the usual costs of selling/buying houses. Using professional movers. Etc. I don't see how it would result in a profit. If she's relying on rising house values - she would get that in the existing house without all the additional costs.

[ysette9]

Perhaps with her husband deceased this is the way she passed her time to entertain herself/stay connected to others/have a project to not wallow in depression.

[Just Joe]

I called a few family members to tell them I've got a new job. In this job I will report to a CFO, but it's a massive company with lot of seperate entities, so it's just "a" CFO of this location, not "the" CFO.

My relatives all said congrats. And then all of them suggested I go shopping for clothes right away, because I can't work for a CFO wearing the type of clothes I wear now. What's wrong with what I wear now? There are no brand names on it. It's not expensive.

Seriously, I wear perfectly appropriate clothes to work but I try to find them secondhand or from shops like H&M and Zara. A black knee-length skirt is a black knee-length skirt. No one cares about the brand name.

Apparantly I also need a new coat. Why? Because I've had this one for years. Does it look worn out or old-fashioned? No, but you've had it for years. You shouldn't wear your clothes for such a long time. And it's boring because it's black.

Congrats to you on the new job! I may have seen your relatives this morn in the school drop off line. Children exited the car in front of us. All of them wearing brand name clothes with a certain logo prominently plastered front and back and head to toe.

I'll buy quality (durability). Don't need any "tribal signs" (logos, signalling) on my clothes though. ;)

[Imma]

I called a few family members to tell them I've got a new job. In this job I will report to a CFO, but it's a massive company with lot of seperate entities, so it's just "a" CFO of this location, not "the" CFO.

My relatives all said congrats. And then all of them suggested I go shopping for clothes right away, because I can't work for a CFO wearing the type of clothes I wear now. What's wrong with what I wear now? There are no brand names on it. It's not expensive.

Seriously, I wear perfectly appropriate clothes to work but I try to find them secondhand or from shops like H&M and Zara. A black knee-length skirt is a black knee-length skirt. No one cares about the brand name.

Apparantly I also need a new coat. Why? Because I've had this one for years. Does it look worn out or old-fashioned? No, but you've had it for years. You shouldn't wear your clothes for such a long time. And it's boring because it's black.

Congrats to you on the new job! I may have seen your relatives this morn in the school drop off line. Children exited the car in front of us. All of them wearing brand name clothes with a certain logo prominently plastered front and back and head to toe.

I'll buy quality (durability). Don't need any "tribal signs" (logos, signalling) on my clothes though. ;)

Same relative when I showed them the dress I altered for an upcoming wedding: "Ooh but you need to buy a matching blazer for when you walk from the wedding venue to the party venue. You need to treat yourself every now and then!" Yeah, treating myself by buying the one type of clothing I hate wearing. I have a very basic thin cardigan in a matching colour that will do just fine. I guess buying clothes is just how normal people reward themselves. For me, having an appropriate outfit for a wedding at a low cost ( to me and to the environment) is the reward.

[zolotiyeruki]

Same relative when I showed them the dress I altered for an upcoming wedding: "Ooh but you need to buy a matching blazer for when you walk from the wedding venue to the party venue. You need to treat yourself every now and then!" Yeah, treating myself by buying the one type of clothing I hate wearing. I have a very basic thin cardigan in a matching colour that will do just fine. I guess buying clothes is just how normal people reward themselves. For me, having an appropriate outfit for a wedding at a low cost ( to me and to the environment) is the reward.

Hang on.  Did they just suggest that you purchase a piece of clothing specifically just for walking from one location to another?

[Paul der Krake]

Same relative when I showed them the dress I altered for an upcoming wedding: "Ooh but you need to buy a matching blazer for when you walk from the wedding venue to the party venue. You need to treat yourself every now and then!" Yeah, treating myself by buying the one type of clothing I hate wearing. I have a very basic thin cardigan in a matching colour that will do just fine. I guess buying clothes is just how normal people reward themselves. For me, having an appropriate outfit for a wedding at a low cost ( to me and to the environment) is the reward.

Hang on.  Did they just suggest that you purchase a piece of clothing specifically just for walking from one location to another?

Life is journey, man.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Same relative when I showed them the dress I altered for an upcoming wedding: "Ooh but you need to buy a matching blazer for when you walk from the wedding venue to the party venue. You need to treat yourself every now and then!" Yeah, treating myself by buying the one type of clothing I hate wearing. I have a very basic thin cardigan in a matching colour that will do just fine. I guess buying clothes is just how normal people reward themselves. For me, having an appropriate outfit for a wedding at a low cost ( to me and to the environment) is the reward.

Hang on.  Did they just suggest that you purchase a piece of clothing specifically just for walking from one location to another?

I have a couple of car-to-bar shoes. They're not much good for anything else!

[Imma]

Same relative when I showed them the dress I altered for an upcoming wedding: "Ooh but you need to buy a matching blazer for when you walk from the wedding venue to the party venue. You need to treat yourself every now and then!" Yeah, treating myself by buying the one type of clothing I hate wearing. I have a very basic thin cardigan in a matching colour that will do just fine. I guess buying clothes is just how normal people reward themselves. For me, having an appropriate outfit for a wedding at a low cost ( to me and to the environment) is the reward.

Hang on.  Did they just suggest that you purchase a piece of clothing specifically just for walking from one location to another?

But what if someone happens to take a picture? Or when the party venue turns out to be cold? At some point you just need to accept you're a grown woman. You can't go on wearing thin plain button down cardigans instead of blazers. 

[Just Joe]

You need to treat yourself every now and then and today and tomorrow and next week. YOLO! How am i so broke?

[Cookie78]

You need to treat yourself every now and then and today and tomorrow and next week. YOLO! How am i so broke?

I'd just like to treat myself to a WHOLELOTTA FREEDOM!! YOLO

[Zikoris]

"Treating yourself" is such an interesting thing. Every time I hear that term from someone, it's trying to get me to buy something I don't even want or like at all - it's like, "That's not a treat! That's the opposite of a treat!"

[FiguringItOut]

Which raises the question for me, how can you move your family to another country without the requisite cash on hand to support them for at least a year??

That's what virtually every immigrant since the dawn of time has done.

Parents moved to the States in '92 with about $4k in cash and six kids. Not every decision in life is made having the resources to fully complement it. Sometimes you just roll with the punches and hope/work/struggle for the best results

Yep.  My parents came to the States in '89 with $1,800, 5 suitcases, two kids, and grandmother. 
My parents retired 5 years ago with NW in $2M+ range.

[Imma]

"Treating yourself" is such an interesting thing. Every time I hear that term from someone, it's trying to get me to buy something I don't even want or like at all - it's like, "That's not a treat! That's the opposite of a treat!"

You're a grown woman! Behalve like one and start enjoying proper treats! There's something wrong with you if you don't like treating yourself with these things. You're not a child anymore. 

[Zikoris]

"Treating yourself" is such an interesting thing. Every time I hear that term from someone, it's trying to get me to buy something I don't even want or like at all - it's like, "That's not a treat! That's the opposite of a treat!"

You're a grown woman! Behalve like one and start enjoying proper treats! There's something wrong with you if you don't like treating yourself with these things. You're not a child anymore.

LOL, that just reminded me of the one time I use the word treat - when I want gummy bears. Probably not a great way to appear more adult-like though. When my boyfriend says treat, he means blueberry yogurt.

[Davnasty]

"Treating yourself" is such an interesting thing. Every time I hear that term from someone, it's trying to get me to buy something I don't even want or like at all - it's like, "That's not a treat! That's the opposite of a treat!"

You're a grown woman! Behalve like one and start enjoying proper treats! There's something wrong with you if you don't like treating yourself with these things. You're not a child anymore.

LOL, that just reminded me of the one time I use the word treat - when I want gummy bears. Probably not a great way to appear more adult-like though. When my boyfriend says treat, he means blueberry yogurt.

Treats are what you get when you show someone how good you are at shaking hands or rolling over. Two treats for jumping through a hoop.

[Zikoris]

"Treating yourself" is such an interesting thing. Every time I hear that term from someone, it's trying to get me to buy something I don't even want or like at all - it's like, "That's not a treat! That's the opposite of a treat!"

You're a grown woman! Behalve like one and start enjoying proper treats! There's something wrong with you if you don't like treating yourself with these things. You're not a child anymore.

LOL, that just reminded me of the one time I use the word treat - when I want gummy bears. Probably not a great way to appear more adult-like though. When my boyfriend says treat, he means blueberry yogurt.

Treats are what you get when you show someone how good you are at shaking hands or rolling over. Two treats for jumping through a hoop.

So what you're saying is that when I need to jump through hoops trying to explain that buying crap I don't want is not actually a treat, I deserve two gummy bears? Sweet!

[Dee]

Two gummy bears? Have 5! You deserve it!

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Two gummy bears? Have 5! You deserve it!

Just make sure they're not the special sugar-free Haribo ones.

[mm1970]

Two gummy bears? Have 5! You deserve it!

Just make sure they're not the special sugar-free Haribo ones.

good one

[AMandM]

"Treating yourself" is such an interesting thing. Every time I hear that term from someone, it's trying to get me to buy something I don't even want or like at all - it's like, "That's not a treat! That's the opposite of a treat!"

Someone gave my MIL a gift certificate for a spa day as a treat. She called all her DILs, asking if we could go with her and use some of the GC's value, so she wouldn't have to stay there so long. The only reason she was even going was that she didn't want to hurt the feelings of the giver.

[auntie_betty]

"Treating yourself" is such an interesting thing. Every time I hear that term from someone, it's trying to get me to buy something I don't even want or like at all - it's like, "That's not a treat! That's the opposite of a treat!"

You're a grown woman! Behalve like one and start enjoying proper treats! There's something wrong with you if you don't like treating yourself with these things. You're not a child anymore.

Recently I 'treated myself' by cracking open a new pack of washing up sponges (the kind with nylon scrubbers on one side). Five minutes later I saw a message from a friend saying she'd just treated herself to a new £100 bag........... Based on how many bags she's bought in the past I don't hold out much hope the new one will bring her any more pleasure than my washing up sponge.

[Linea_Norway]

Recently I 'treated myself' by cracking open a new pack of washing up sponges (the kind with nylon scrubbers on one side). Five minutes later I saw a message from a friend saying she'd just treated herself to a new £100 bag........... Based on how many bags she's bought in the past I don't hold out much hope the new one will bring her any more pleasure than my washing up sponge.

:-)

I treated myself on a ice-cream last weekend, as it was such nice weather.

[Imma]

Recently I 'treated myself' by cracking open a new pack of washing up sponges (the kind with nylon scrubbers on one side). Five minutes later I saw a message from a friend saying she'd just treated herself to a new £100 bag........... Based on how many bags she's bought in the past I don't hold out much hope the new one will bring her any more pleasure than my washing up sponge.

:-)

I treated myself on a ice-cream last weekend, as it was such nice weather.

I bought myself a magazine on canning last weekend. That's what I would call a real treat.

I never feel guilty about giving away any beauty-related gifts. Everyone knows I hate that. If they give me a terrible gift I'm not obligated to keep or use it.

[mm1970]

Recently I 'treated myself' by cracking open a new pack of washing up sponges (the kind with nylon scrubbers on one side). Five minutes later I saw a message from a friend saying she'd just treated herself to a new £100 bag........... Based on how many bags she's bought in the past I don't hold out much hope the new one will bring her any more pleasure than my washing up sponge.

:-)

I treated myself on a ice-cream last weekend, as it was such nice weather.

I bought myself a magazine on canning last weekend. That's what I would call a real treat.

I never feel guilty about giving away any beauty-related gifts. Everyone knows I hate that. If they give me a terrible gift I'm not obligated to keep or use it.

I had this lovely boss.

Years ago, when I was pregnant, I had a pretty rough pregnancy.  First, my mom died.  Then, the boss and two coworkers had a string of illnesses/surgeries/vacations scheduled, such that I basically was doing the job of two people for 3 or 4 straight months.  (and not always the same two people.  Me and boss.  Me and coworker A.  Me and coworker B.)  My stress level was through the ROOF.  So sweet boss took me to lunch when I was 8 months pregnant or so.

Gave me this lovely gift certificate for a spa so that I could get a message, or any treatment that I wanted.  Even had his wife check out a few spas to find a great one.

Can I say that I'd never had a massage?  And wasn't into spas?  And didn't know what was appropriate for a pregnancy message? 

Ah, in any event.  I waited until after I had the baby.  Was a week or two out from going back to work.  I still didn't want a massage.  I scheduled a facial.  I'd never had a facial either.  How the fuck do people breathe with hot moist air on their faces?  The technician asked "have you ever had a facial??"  Um, no, obviously.  It was definitely a waste of a couple hundred bucks.  But it wasn't my couple hundred bucks.

[Threshkin]

Recently I 'treated myself' by cracking open a new pack of washing up sponges (the kind with nylon scrubbers on one side). Five minutes later I saw a message from a friend saying she'd just treated herself to a new £100 bag........... Based on how many bags she's bought in the past I don't hold out much hope the new one will bring her any more pleasure than my washing up sponge.

:-)

I treated myself on a ice-cream last weekend, as it was such nice weather.

I bought myself a magazine on canning last weekend. That's what I would call a real treat.

I never feel guilty about giving away any beauty-related gifts. Everyone knows I hate that. If they give me a terrible gift I'm not obligated to keep or use it.

I had this lovely boss.

Years ago, when I was pregnant, I had a pretty rough pregnancy.  First, my mom died.  Then, the boss and two coworkers had a string of illnesses/surgeries/vacations scheduled, such that I basically was doing the job of two people for 3 or 4 straight months.  (and not always the same two people.  Me and boss.  Me and coworker A.  Me and coworker B.)  My stress level was through the ROOF.  So sweet boss took me to lunch when I was 8 months pregnant or so.

Gave me this lovely gift certificate for a spa so that I could get a message, or any treatment that I wanted.  Even had his wife check out a few spas to find a great one.

Can I say that I'd never had a massage?  And wasn't into spas?  And didn't know what was appropriate for a pregnancy message? 

Ah, in any event.  I waited until after I had the baby.  Was a week or two out from going back to work.  I still didn't want a massage.  I scheduled a facial.  I'd never had a facial either.  How the fuck do people breathe with hot moist air on their faces?  The technician asked "have you ever had a facial??"  Um, no, obviously.  It was definitely a waste of a couple hundred bucks.  But it wasn't my couple hundred bucks.

But the thought was good.  Many (most?) bosses wouldn't have gotten you anything at all.

[mm1970]

Recently I 'treated myself' by cracking open a new pack of washing up sponges (the kind with nylon scrubbers on one side). Five minutes later I saw a message from a friend saying she'd just treated herself to a new £100 bag........... Based on how many bags she's bought in the past I don't hold out much hope the new one will bring her any more pleasure than my washing up sponge.

:-)

I treated myself on a ice-cream last weekend, as it was such nice weather.

I bought myself a magazine on canning last weekend. That's what I would call a real treat.

I never feel guilty about giving away any beauty-related gifts. Everyone knows I hate that. If they give me a terrible gift I'm not obligated to keep or use it.

I had this lovely boss.

Years ago, when I was pregnant, I had a pretty rough pregnancy.  First, my mom died.  Then, the boss and two coworkers had a string of illnesses/surgeries/vacations scheduled, such that I basically was doing the job of two people for 3 or 4 straight months.  (and not always the same two people.  Me and boss.  Me and coworker A.  Me and coworker B.)  My stress level was through the ROOF.  So sweet boss took me to lunch when I was 8 months pregnant or so.

Gave me this lovely gift certificate for a spa so that I could get a message, or any treatment that I wanted.  Even had his wife check out a few spas to find a great one.

Can I say that I'd never had a massage?  And wasn't into spas?  And didn't know what was appropriate for a pregnancy message? 

Ah, in any event.  I waited until after I had the baby.  Was a week or two out from going back to work.  I still didn't want a massage.  I scheduled a facial.  I'd never had a facial either.  How the fuck do people breathe with hot moist air on their faces?  The technician asked "have you ever had a facial??"  Um, no, obviously.  It was definitely a waste of a couple hundred bucks.  But it wasn't my couple hundred bucks.

But the thought was good.  Many (most?) bosses wouldn't have gotten you anything at all.

Yes, it was a great thought and much appreciated.

[Jouer]

I love going to the spa with my wife - we have a nordic spa not too far from us. Most, if not all, of the baths are outside so it is beautiful there, especially in the winter. Anyways, if you book a massage, you get the cold/hot baths and other stuff for about 25% off the regular price. Works benefits pay for massages anyways so it's a nice way to get a $55 service for $40 (or since we got the massage, a $145 service for $40). We'd like to do this twice a year but we only usually make it there once a year.

[Catbert]

Okay, back to relative stories...my step son (lets call him Stehen) is in his early 40s and obese.  He's churned through a variety of jobs over the years (somehow always get hired by assholes according to him).  His most recent job was as an armoured car driver.  6+ months ago he blew out his knee at work and has been on worker's comp.  He'll never be back to that job becuase being 100 lbs overweight won't heal the knee.  I forget what kind of knee surgery was involved.

When DH was visiting in June he was clear that Stephen had gotten a settlement although he refused to tell his father that.  But Stephen was paying for dinners and treats which he has never done before.  They are getting a new furnace.  DH overhead a neighbor tell Stephen's wife that furnaces are expensive.  That he (neighbor) would be willing to install as a side job and save them a lot of money.  Wife turned him down because they "have the money at the moment."  At one point  Stephen started to say something about a "set...." and then quickly changed the sentence.  At the time I wondered why he admit that he got a settlement.  Now I know.

Now it's 3 months later.  Last night DH received a call from another son asking if Stephen had gotten a settlement.  Stephen has now asked his mother (DH's ex-wife) for money because he's broke.  DH confirmed that Stephen likely got a settlement.  Likely she give him money anyway.  Oh well, not my problem.

[87tweetybirds]

One of the big barriers to getting DH to save was a similar problem. As a young boy his Aunt took him to open a savings account, into which he deposited money from various little jobs. After his parents (primarily his mother) found out about it she had him withdraw everything he had saved to "loan" them money to pay bills, (never repaid of course) and thereafter would regularly request for teenage DH to pay some of the household bills. He also had to pay for his own high school education (he lived in a country where education was free until about grade 6). Took some convincing to help him see that his mother had no business knowing the details of our finances, and to only tell her what he was willing to share (disclosure of income without accompanying disclosure of matching expenses is met with requests for $ for "needs" such as vacations to the beach, nice dinner out, etc). They have no real idea how much we make or save. He has managed to maintain a somewhat healthy relationship by telling them he would send x amount of money a month, and that's it.

@87tweetybirds ,


I disagree.  You've managed to maintain an appeasement relationship by doing this.   It's not healthy, far from it.

Have to agree. He's effectively exchanged monthly payments for peace and harmony. OK, that might be worth it to you guys. Only you can judge that. I'd be well down the path to 'fuck off', myself.

If the only way to have a relationship with my mother is to give her money so she doesn't harass me, that's not a relationship I want to maintain.

I read "healthy" as in "healthy for him". He feels like he's supporting her but it's a fixed amount each month so he can budget for it and not stress about endless random requests for money. He doesn't want to have zero relationship with her, so this is a way he can have boundaries that are manageable and enforceable but not have to stress too much about it.

This is the definition of “somewhat healthy relationship “ I was referring to. Is it truly a healthy relationship? Absolutely not, but there are boundaries imposed. He wants  have them in our lives, (family being very important in his culture) thus boundaries are what is required.

[Kitsune]

One of the big barriers to getting DH to save was a similar problem. As a young boy his Aunt took him to open a savings account, into which he deposited money from various little jobs. After his parents (primarily his mother) found out about it she had him withdraw everything he had saved to "loan" them money to pay bills, (never repaid of course) and thereafter would regularly request for teenage DH to pay some of the household bills. He also had to pay for his own high school education (he lived in a country where education was free until about grade 6). Took some convincing to help him see that his mother had no business knowing the details of our finances, and to only tell her what he was willing to share (disclosure of income without accompanying disclosure of matching expenses is met with requests for $ for "needs" such as vacations to the beach, nice dinner out, etc). They have no real idea how much we make or save. He has managed to maintain a somewhat healthy relationship by telling them he would send x amount of money a month, and that's it.

@87tweetybirds ,


I disagree.  You've managed to maintain an appeasement relationship by doing this.   It's not healthy, far from it.

Have to agree. He's effectively exchanged monthly payments for peace and harmony. OK, that might be worth it to you guys. Only you can judge that. I'd be well down the path to 'fuck off', myself.

If the only way to have a relationship with my mother is to give her money so she doesn't harass me, that's not a relationship I want to maintain.

I read "healthy" as in "healthy for him". He feels like he's supporting her but it's a fixed amount each month so he can budget for it and not stress about endless random requests for money. He doesn't want to have zero relationship with her, so this is a way he can have boundaries that are manageable and enforceable but not have to stress too much about it.

This is the definition of “somewhat healthy relationship “ I was referring to. Is it truly a healthy relationship? Absolutely not, but there are boundaries imposed. He wants  have them in our lives, (family being very important in his culture) thus boundaries are what is required.

Frankly, that seems like a definition of 'somewhat healthy relationship' most families use. There are always moments where communication styles and priorities and boundaries and expectations clash, and if you can handle a status quo of not giving more (time/money/energy/whatever) than you can/want, in return for a reasonably pleasant relationship with people you (mostly) appreciate... then yay.

Or, in other words: you can pick your spouse, you can pick your friends, you're stuck with your family, and sometimes they're great and sometimes it's a damned balancing act and sometimes you cut off contact. A successful balancing act can still be (reasonably, somewhat) healthy.

[Lovelywings]

I don’t fault loveywings either. There are a lot of other red signs in the post. The cousin:

- Asked her to lend him money to trick the potential landlord into thinong he has more savings than he actually has in order to secure an apartment —> So he’s dishonest?
- Didn’t do proper research on work visas before moving here and selecting housing —> Impulsive? Lacks certain executive functioning skills? Lacks foresight?
- Asked lovelywings to co-sign the lease
- Likely intends to break the lease —> So he’s untrustworthy and doesn’t intend to keep promises?

The point is not that he immigrated to Canada with little money. The point is that he didn’t even seem to do any planning around how he and his family are going to survive, but instead seems to be holding out his hand and asking lovelywings, who is also a recent immigrant, to support him and his family. Seems kind of mooch-y to me.

Sorry, I was gone for a bit, and didn't realize there was some key background missing in my story. At the time he moved his family neither he nor his wife is able to work in Canada, at least for the next 6 months. His wife is a full time student and mother of a 2 year old. and he is a supporting spouse who is actually returning to our home country to work and will be paying her bills from there. So neither of them are able to hustle like your typical new immigrant. Hence why savings are required.

[Lovelywings]

The immigrants I know here are mostly from poor countries like Bangladesh, the Philippines or various African countries or war torn countries like Libya or Syria.  When they arrive the other immigrants from these countries, and especially families, support the recent immigrant.  This seems to be expected along with sending remittances to the less fortunate relatives back home.  But maybe the culture lovelywings comes from does not have this kind of support as part of its culture.

Its a bit more complicated than this, but I see where there may be confusion. We're from a middle class African country (not war-torn). My cousin and I are pretty much the first in our family (among those who keep in touch) to move to Canada. There aren't other relatives here that he or I can depend on. And I'm just not interested in being that for him. I cannot afford it. Plus to be honest, the millennial generation in my country don't believe in being economically responsible for siblings..much less cousins. We have seen how our parents supported other family members and religious institutions, only to end up with little life savings. And yet they are regularly peppered with periodic requests for money, sometimes even asking for DOLLARS. Then insulted behind their backs when they decline. My father's younger sister once asked him to give her $5000 so she could start an import business. This was at a time I was sending money home to my parents (of course he said no). The cousin in my OP once told me that until he lived with us (in his twenties), he thought my father was a millionaire. My parents aren't big spenders, but there is a kind of entitlement that my generation is starting to vocally push back against. Though, not all of us are of the same view..

 TLDR - supporting others is part of my culture. My generation is saying heck no. there isn't a big enough group of family here to be there for my cousin.

[Ever_Anon]

I just got off the phone with my father and need to vent. He sounded a bit distracted, and when I asked why he said he was balancing their checkbook. My mom has two doctor's appointments next week with a $40 copay for each, and he needed to make sure they had enough money. Turns out they have a grand total of $95 to their name. $95! (But hey, that's just enough money for the copays!)

For context, my parents are both on disability. They get "paid" once a month, on the 3rd. That was less than two weeks ago! How the hell did they spend all their money so fast? To make matters even worse, I bought them $150 of groceries this month, so they should have been a little ahead.

My parents are legitimately poor, for reasons that are not entirely their fault. But they do still have an expensive cable package. They both smoke. They turn on every damn light in the house and can't stand the thought of the inside temperature ever not being a stable 72°f/22°c, even if that means running the heater at night and the A/C during the day. Then they call me crying because the dog is out of food and they know damn well I won't let the dog suffer. (I'm also paying any and all vet/grooming bills for the same reason.)

My sister and I have tried to talk sense into them. They won't listen. Mystical things like "budgets" or "self-control" are completely beyond their comprehension. I suppose I should be thankful that my father actually thought far enough ahead to double-check that they had money for the copays.

I hate that they do this to themselves, and I hate that they do this to me, and most of all I hate that I can't stop feeling guilty and giving into the same bullshit manipulation tactics they've been using since I was a teenager.

[Hula Hoop]

The immigrants I know here are mostly from poor countries like Bangladesh, the Philippines or various African countries or war torn countries like Libya or Syria.  When they arrive the other immigrants from these countries, and especially families, support the recent immigrant.  This seems to be expected along with sending remittances to the less fortunate relatives back home.  But maybe the culture lovelywings comes from does not have this kind of support as part of its culture.

Its a bit more complicated than this, but I see where there may be confusion. We're from a middle class African country (not war-torn). My cousin and I are pretty much the first in our family (among those who keep in touch) to move to Canada. There aren't other relatives here that he or I can depend on. And I'm just not interested in being that for him. I cannot afford it. Plus to be honest, the millennial generation in my country don't believe in being economically responsible for siblings..much less cousins. We have seen how our parents supported other family members and religious institutions, only to end up with little life savings. And yet they are regularly peppered with periodic requests for money, sometimes even asking for DOLLARS. Then insulted behind their backs when they decline. My father's younger sister once asked him to give her $5000 so she could start an import business. This was at a time I was sending money home to my parents (of course he said no). The cousin in my OP once told me that until he lived with us (in his twenties), he thought my father was a millionaire. My parents aren't big spenders, but there is a kind of entitlement that my generation is starting to vocally push back against. Though, not all of us are of the same view..

 TLDR - supporting others is part of my culture. My generation is saying heck no. there isn't a big enough group of family here to be there for my cousin.

Thanks LW.  I know a Filippino guy who works as a cleaner here and is always complaining about his grasping relatives back home who think he's a millionaire because he lives in Italy.  They expect him to buy them big-screen TVs and things like that when he goes home.  I feel bad for the guy as he's just scraping by here.

Weirdly enough here in Italy there also  is this expectation of supporting siblings and other family members financially.  I have numerous foreign friends married to Italians who are driven nuts by feckless sisters and brothers in law who are supported by their spouse.  Things don't seem to be changing with younger people.  The entire culture is built on family and it goes completely against the world view of people from many other countries.

[Nederstash]

I just got off the phone with my father and need to vent. He sounded a bit distracted, and when I asked why he said he was balancing their checkbook. My mom has two doctor's appointments next week with a $40 copay for each, and he needed to make sure they had enough money. Turns out they have a grand total of $95 to their name. $95! (But hey, that's just enough money for the copays!)

For context, my parents are both on disability. They get "paid" once a month, on the 3rd. That was less than two weeks ago! How the hell did they spend all their money so fast? To make matters even worse, I bought them $150 of groceries this month, so they should have been a little ahead.

My parents are legitimately poor, for reasons that are not entirely their fault. But they do still have an expensive cable package. They both smoke. They turn on every damn light in the house and can't stand the thought of the inside temperature ever not being a stable 72°f/22°c, even if that means running the heater at night and the A/C during the day. Then they call me crying because the dog is out of food and they know damn well I won't let the dog suffer. (I'm also paying any and all vet/grooming bills for the same reason.)

My sister and I have tried to talk sense into them. They won't listen. Mystical things like "budgets" or "self-control" are completely beyond their comprehension. I suppose I should be thankful that my father actually thought far enough ahead to double-check that they had money for the copays.

I hate that they do this to themselves, and I hate that they do this to me, and most of all I hate that I can't stop feeling guilty and giving into the same bullshit manipulation tactics they've been using since I was a teenager.

Wow, that would piss me off royally. If you have children or pets, they come BEFORE all the bullshit spending like smoking and cable. It's an appalling level of arrogance. And they damn well know how to tug on your heartstrings to make you pay for the dog. Put them in the stocks and pelt them with rotten fruit!

Sorry, it's a bit of a pet peeve...

[shelivesthedream]

I often read this thread specifically to appreciate my financially competent family more.

[Roadrunner53]

I just got off the phone with my father and need to vent. He sounded a bit distracted, and when I asked why he said he was balancing their checkbook. My mom has two doctor's appointments next week with a $40 copay for each, and he needed to make sure they had enough money. Turns out they have a grand total of $95 to their name. $95! (But hey, that's just enough money for the copays!)

For context, my parents are both on disability. They get "paid" once a month, on the 3rd. That was less than two weeks ago! How the hell did they spend all their money so fast? To make matters even worse, I bought them $150 of groceries this month, so they should have been a little ahead.

My parents are legitimately poor, for reasons that are not entirely their fault. But they do still have an expensive cable package. They both smoke. They turn on every damn light in the house and can't stand the thought of the inside temperature ever not being a stable 72°f/22°c, even if that means running the heater at night and the A/C during the day. Then they call me crying because the dog is out of food and they know damn well I won't let the dog suffer. (I'm also paying any and all vet/grooming bills for the same reason.)

My sister and I have tried to talk sense into them. They won't listen. Mystical things like "budgets" or "self-control" are completely beyond their comprehension. I suppose I should be thankful that my father actually thought far enough ahead to double-check that they had money for the copays.

I hate that they do this to themselves, and I hate that they do this to me, and most of all I hate that I can't stop feeling guilty and giving into the same bullshit manipulation tactics they've been using since I was a teenager.

Ever_Anon, Your parents sound a lot like my In Laws. They are no longer alive but spent their money foolishly. FIL was a union truck driver and made good money all his life. MIL was a say at home Mom but did work a little over the years. Not enough to even get her own SS when the time came. She did have health problems too. FIL was a hobby nut. Always had to spend money on hobbies. One hobby he built a small greenhouse and that had to be heated. He would let the house run out of heating oil to supply the greenhouse that had exotic orchids that needed heat and humidity. He would go to flower shows and buy super expensive orchid bulbs all the while some utility was being shut off for non payment. They bought into a freezer plan where they got a upright freezer and their choice of meats to fill it up on a payment plan. The food was supposed to last maybe 3 months. They were like animals including my deadbeat BIL, and ate all the meat up in a months time. They would eat steak for breakfast or snacks. Then they still had freezer plan payments and no meat! MIL figured she needed to get onto the hobby train and bought these collector bride dolls from the Bradford exchange. One doll would arrive every so often. THEN she needed cabinets to put them in. In the meantime they both smoked like chimneys so you can imagine how the nicotine penetrated into those dolls dresses. If not for the union the FIL would not have had any pension money. Later on in life they ate at a local diner almost every night. They were always broke.

You and your sister need to sit down with them and find out where their money is going. Maybe the two of you can take over paying their bills. Is it possible for them to move to a senior apartment complex that has a sliding scale for apartment rent? Something has to change because they are in a rut of spending money foolishly. You and your sister need to give them some tough love and tell them they are going to be living under a bridge soon if they don't either change their ways or move to senior housing. It is very generous that you can help them with groceries and the dog. My In Laws had no concept of saving a nickel for rainy day. They were the types that ran to the bank as fast as they could, cash the paycheck, then run out to spend it.

The heating and cooling situation may seem dumb to you but old people seem to require warmer temps. If you have ever visited a nursing home you will find that it is warm, too warm for me but I believe some states require a minimum temperature that might be in the 70's. How about buying them a couple of electric blankets/throws and suggesting they turn the heat down? You might consider visiting your local senior center about senior housing. Get all your ducks in a row and maybe view some apartments before suggesting it to your parents. If they see you are knowledgeable about this new living situation, they might go for it. If you go in with no information, no costs, they might be put off. These senior apartments usually are geared to seniors needs to like transportation to doctor offices, grocery shopping and transportation to the senior center for daily activities. Good luck Anon!

[merula]

My in-laws told my kids they would pay for them to get music lessons.

Ordinarily, that'd be a great gift, far far better than the mountains of plastic crap the in-laws usually buy for them. And my kids like music. They enjoy playing around with the thrift store guitar I bought them. They sing to themselves. They seem to have good rhythm.

The problems are:
(1) I already offered my children any music lesson (or any other lesson they wanted to take), as long as they were willing to practice every day. They declined.
(2) My kids are 6 and 4. Even if they agreed to practice, it would become a major source of stress to make sure they actually do it.
(3) My in-laws are notoriously unreliable, and avoid confrontation at all costs. The payment for lessons would suddenly cease when they forgot about it, or decided they were done but didn't want to have a conversation about it. There would also be no support in getting the kids to/from the lessons (see unreliable, above).

So what did the in-laws do? They bought the kids HARMONICAS. If you ever want to torture someone with small children, buy those children musical instruments.

Luckily, the children spent less than an hour with the harmonicas before running off to bike, leaving the foul things in the grass to be confiscated.

[Kitsune]

So what did the in-laws do? They bought the kids HARMONICAS. If you ever want to torture someone with small children, buy those children musical instruments.

MUAHAHAHA.

Someone gave my kids and their cousins a large box of all-slightly-off-key recorders.

Pro tip: if you wanna hit Voldemort-status rage from a group of parents? Harmonicas, recorders, kazoos...

[AMandM]

Pro tip: if you wanna hit Voldemort-status rage from a group of parents? Harmonicas, recorders, kazoos...

Recorders are far and away the worst, because they're so high-pitched, and little kids's fingers can't cover the holes properly. Nothing but shrieks and squawks!

[ysette9]

Is still take a recorder over a battery-operated toy that makes noise.

[shelivesthedream]

Is still take a recorder over a battery-operated toy that makes noise.

We have banned batteries from our house. He's only four and a half months old so this has yet to be tested, but I intend to stand firm.

[chaskavitch]

Is still take a recorder over a battery-operated toy that makes noise.

We have banned batteries from our house. He's only four and a half months old so this has yet to be tested, but I intend to stand firm.

Some specific relatives keep giving us toys that sing songs in terrible voices :(  Instituting a battery ban at the beginning is a good idea. Best of luck to you.

[Just Joe]

I often read this thread specifically to appreciate my financially competent family more.

Exactly. This thread redefines alot of things.

[barbaz]

We have banned batteries from our house. He's only four and a half months old so this has yet to be tested, but I intend to stand firm.

I frequently clarify to family that battery operated toys will break very quickly at our house. Also, kids below a certain age can’t tell the difference between broken and batteries-removed

[I'm a red panda]

I appreciate the toy manufacturers who have volume options on their toys.
At 18 months, I think we only have 4 things with batteries. One doesn't have a sound option, so I have duct tape over the speaker. 
She mostly chooses books to play with, but she likes some of her sound toys too. I'm OK with them.

[AMandM]

SLtD, why doesn't your 4.5-month-old have any battery-operated toys yet despite your ban? Doesn't he have grandparents who care about his educational development?
/s

Pretty much all the battery-op toys our kids ever received were from grandparents. It amazed me, really--these are highly educated people who got that way, and who for the most part raised their own children, without the help of batteries. What marketing genius convinced them that children's intellectual development requires beeping sounds and flashing lights?

[Kitsune]

SLtD, why doesn't your 4.5-month-old have any battery-operated toys yet despite your ban? Doesn't he have grandparents who care about his educational development?
/s

Pretty much all the battery-op toys our kids ever received were from grandparents. It amazed me, really--these are highly educated people who got that way, and who for the most part raised their own children, without the help of batteries. What marketing genius convinced them that children's intellectual development requires beeping sounds and flashing lights?

I was once in a house with a kid who pressed all the buttons on like 17 battery-operated toys at once... how people can stay sane in that environment, I do not know.

My kids have 3 toys that make noise, and they're usually hidden... but sometimes, when they're in a horrible mood and I'm at my wit's end, they get taken out. It's a total band-aid solution to horrible days.

[sonjak]

Is still take a recorder over a battery-operated toy that makes noise.

We have banned batteries from our house. He's only four and a half months old so this has yet to be tested, but I intend to stand firm.

My brother's nephew ended up in the hospital as a toddler after nearly dying from eating a battery.  It did a lot of damage before they figured out what had happened.  PSA and another reason (besides major annoyance) not to have battery-operated toys for little kids.