Relatives who just don't get it

[ysette9]

From a family party today. One family member who has been retired for a number of years (spouse still works) apparently was scared off by the tech bubble and the Great Recession and has been in cash for the last ten years. He is now talking about investing in CDs. He also has deferred maintenance on a weekend property that he will pay for with a HELOC, but the good news is the vacation rental income will pay for that loan.

[Lovelywings]

This is partially about anti-mustachianism and partially about planning ahead for major life events.

A relative of mine moved to Canada from a developing country at the same time as me. We're the same age (mid 30s) only he is married with a baby. We didn't coordinate the move. Its a coincidence. I was initially excited but ever since he arrived it's been some crazy shit. First he requested I cosign a lease for him... I said no and ignored the guilt trip. Note he is not my sibling (we don't do things like this). Just a cousin that's close to the family. I said no because I myself am trying to get on my feet, I didn't trust that he won't have issues paying rent on time every month, and lastly I have a philosophical issue with subsidising someone elses family as a single woman.

That said, it's a big challenge moving to a western country so I wanted to be supportive emotionally. But after talking to my parents about it I find out they had warned and advised him several times about making such a huge decision without enough funds and expecting that things will just work out. They even told him not to expect help from me (my parents  are awesome sometimes) but he doesn't listen. The latest is him telling me he might need to borrow money from me to demonstrate to a potential landlord that he has enough funds to cover future rent. Which raises the question for me, how can you move your family to another country without the requisite cash on hand to support them for at least a year?? There's been other stuff like not doing proper research on the school his wife was supposed to attend...it's a long story. So now they have to change schools and find a different diploma course that leads to a work permit, even though school starts now. I googled and sent him a website managed by the government to check if other schools are eligible to apply for work permits after his wife graduates. When he mentioned they've gone and visited the other schools recently I asked him, did you confirm with admissions that your wife will be eligible for a permit after graduation? And his response was, I checked the website  link you gave me. 😯 I had to tell him to ask the bloody school as well! Mother of God.

There's other stuff, like him signing a lease then likely going to break it because of the school situation.  Obviously if they change schools they may have to change housing. In all its a crappy situation that reflects poor financial foresight and poor planning in general.

[Dee]

Ugh, that sounds stressful, Lovelywings. Good for you for setting appropriate boundaries and sticking to them. Keep at it!

[Paul der Krake]

Which raises the question for me, how can you move your family to another country without the requisite cash on hand to support them for at least a year??

That's what virtually every immigrant since the dawn of time has done.

[former player]

Which raises the question for me, how can you move your family to another country without the requisite cash on hand to support them for at least a year??

That's what virtually every immigrant since the dawn of time has done.

Yes.  The chance to legally move your family to a safe, rich country is one that many millions of people would leap at - even now several thousands of people die each year just for the chance of illegal immigration to such a country.  If a chance at legal immigration comes along you leap fast before it goes away.

[Hula Hoop]

Which raises the question for me, how can you move your family to another country without the requisite cash on hand to support them for at least a year??

That's what virtually every immigrant since the dawn of time has done.

Yes.  The chance to legally move your family to a safe, rich country is one that many millions of people would leap at - even now several thousands of people die each year just for the chance of illegal immigration to such a country.  If a chance at legal immigration comes along you leap fast before it goes away.

I agree - immigrant communities have always supported each other in various ways to obtain the [insert rich country name here] dream.  Usually, people emigrate to the new country because they are poor and want to improve their circumstances.  I doubt that many of them manage to save up much money while still living in the poor country.  If they were able to do that, why would they emigrate?

[Hula Hoop]

The immigrants I know here are mostly from poor countries like Bangladesh, the Philippines or various African countries or war torn countries like Libya or Syria.  When they arrive the other immigrants from these countries, and especially families, support the recent immigrant.  This seems to be expected along with sending remittances to the less fortunate relatives back home.  But maybe the culture lovelywings comes from does not have this kind of support as part of its culture.

[former player]

None of which is to say that I fault lovelywings for her attitude - she is talking to her cousin and offering advice, just not providing economic outpatient care to someone who hasn't yet figured out a financially sustainable life in their new country.

[Freedomin5]

I don’t fault loveywings either. There are a lot of other red signs in the post. The cousin:

- Asked her to lend him money to trick the potential landlord into thinong he has more savings than he actually has in order to secure an apartment —> So he’s dishonest?
- Didn’t do proper research on work visas before moving here and selecting housing —> Impulsive? Lacks certain executive functioning skills? Lacks foresight?
- Asked lovelywings to co-sign the lease
- Likely intends to break the lease —> So he’s untrustworthy and doesn’t intend to keep promises?

The point is not that he immigrated to Canada with little money. The point is that he didn’t even seem to do any planning around how he and his family are going to survive, but instead seems to be holding out his hand and asking lovelywings, who is also a recent immigrant, to support him and his family. Seems kind of mooch-y to me.

[Hula Hoop]

Yes - same here.  It sounds like this cousin did not do his homework and also plans to lie to his landlord amongst other things.  I can see why LW would be uncomfortable.

[Imma]

I called a few family members to tell them I've got a new job. In this job I will report to a CFO, but it's a massive company with lot of seperate entities, so it's just "a" CFO of this location, not "the" CFO.

My relatives all said congrats. And then all of them suggested I go shopping for clothes right away, because I can't work for a CFO wearing the type of clothes I wear now. What's wrong with what I wear now? There are no brand names on it. It's not expensive.

Seriously, I wear perfectly appropriate clothes to work but I try to find them secondhand or from shops like H&M and Zara. A black knee-length skirt is a black knee-length skirt. No one cares about the brand name.

Apparantly I also need a new coat. Why? Because I've had this one for years. Does it look worn out or old-fashioned? No, but you've had it for years. You shouldn't wear your clothes for such a long time. And it's boring because it's black.

[Linea_Norway]

I called a few family members to tell them I've got a new job. In this job I will report to a CFO, but it's a massive company with lot of seperate entities, so it's just "a" CFO of this location, not "the" CFO.

My relatives all said congrats. And then all of them suggested I go shopping for clothes right away, because I can't work for a CFO wearing the type of clothes I wear now. What's wrong with what I wear now? There are no brand names on it. It's not expensive.

Seriously, I wear perfectly appropriate clothes to work but I try to find them secondhand or from shops like H&M and Zara. A black knee-length skirt is a black knee-length skirt. No one cares about the brand name.

Apparantly I also need a new coat. Why? Because I've had this one for years. Does it look worn out or old-fashioned? No, but you've had it for years. You shouldn't wear your clothes for such a long time. And it's boring because it's black.

Ridiculous that you should exchange your perfectly appropriate clothes with others because of another function. I do understand that some functions would require a formal clothing style, but that should have more to do with the type of clothes than the brands. But many people are obviously poshy.

[cloudsail]

Zara is considered low end?? I think I've seen Kate Middleton wear stuff from Zara before she married Prince William.

[coldestcat]

I would avoid those shops because they promote a cycle of fashion that in not sustainable. way to go for second-hand clothes!

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/fashion/environment-costs-fast-fashion-pollution-waste-sustainability-a8139386.html

[ixtap]

Zara is considered low end?? I think I've seen Kate Middleton wear stuff from Zara before she married Prince William.

Wasn't that where Melania got that one jacket...

Zara is one of those middle ground places that people who buy clothes consider pretty pricey, but people who buy fashion consider low end.

[NoraLenderbee]

My relatives all said congrats. And then all of them suggested I go shopping for clothes right away, because I can't work for a CFO wearing the type of clothes I wear now. What's wrong with what I wear now? There are no brand names on it. It's not expensive.

In your situation, your relatives would be thinking, "Yay! New job means I get to buy new clothes!" so they assume you think the same way.

[AMandM]

Apparantly I also need a new coat. Why? Because I've had this one for years. Does it look worn out or old-fashioned? No, but you've had it for years. You shouldn't wear your clothes for such a long time. And it's boring because it's black.

Uh... "I'm sorry that my coat bores you"? Not an apology I'm ever planning to offer. 

[SwordGuy]

Here is the crazy part. My brother lived for about 2 school years in an apartment with a bunch of other guys about 10 mins on the other side of the university. Paying for everything - house, food etc. This means that pretty much his entire income from his job was spent on his bills. 

He has finally "run out of money" and moved back in with my parents. I can only imagine how rich he would be if he had just stayed home, did school and worked. Honestly he could have a down payment for a house by now.

Yeah, but his roommates would cheer him on, whereas his parents might interfere with having people sleep over...


I moved into an apartment when I went into grad school for precisely that reason.  Worth every penny. :)

Would have done so during my undergrad work if I could have afforded it then, too.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

I called a few family members to tell them I've got a new job. In this job I will report to a CFO, but it's a massive company with lot of seperate entities, so it's just "a" CFO of this location, not "the" CFO.

My relatives all said congrats. And then all of them suggested I go shopping for clothes right away, because I can't work for a CFO wearing the type of clothes I wear now. What's wrong with what I wear now? There are no brand names on it. It's not expensive.

Seriously, I wear perfectly appropriate clothes to work but I try to find them secondhand or from shops like H&M and Zara. A black knee-length skirt is a black knee-length skirt. No one cares about the brand name.

Apparantly I also need a new coat. Why? Because I've had this one for years. Does it look worn out or old-fashioned? No, but you've had it for years. You shouldn't wear your clothes for such a long time. And it's boring because it's black.

Tell them it's "vintage" and they'll shut up.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

DH and  I have a birthday lunch each year with his sister and her son b/c all 4 of our birthdays are the same month.  We only see the nephew a couple of times a year, some years only once.

A little background:  In the past nephew has been a jeans, tee shirt and tats kinda guy.  A couple of years ago he bought   leased a car so he could make money doing Uber.  That worked as well as you would expect.  Earlier this year he got a steady job.  Not high paying but 40 hours a week with health insurance at a company you've actually have heard of.  Things are looking up.  Now...

He comes in the restaurant dressed  like a rapper (or at least what my 65 y.o. eyes think a rapper looks like):  oversized football jersey, baggy, long shorts, lots of jewelry (cheap in his case), baseball hat with a flat brim, shaved head etc.  He's all about his music and how his music career is taking off.  Showed us how he can "play" guitar on his iphone X.  How he's playing in the barrio and is "the only white boy who dares go there".  How all the girls on his instagram post bikini pics.  He uses cool filters (available only on iphone X) to take pics of him getting out the shower with a towel wrapped around his waist.  How he's going to start a charity for poor single mothers which sounds like a great way to meet vunerable young women.

Typical not-got-their-act-together 20-something behavior you say?  Maybe he'll outgrow it and get his act together.? Yea, maybe.  Except he's 49.  How long until he gives up the steady job so he can devote more time to his music is anybody's guess.

Sounds like nephew has nailed the aspiring part of the 'aspiring rapper' phrase that seems to pop up so often.

We like big bucks and we cannot lie...

[zolotiyeruki]

Sounds like nephew has nailed the aspiring part of the 'aspiring rapper' phrase that seems to pop up so often.

We like big bucks and we cannot lie...

*snigger* that sounds like a great signature for a bogleheads user...

[Imma]

I would avoid those shops because they promote a cycle of fashion that in not sustainable. way to go for second-hand clothes!

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/fashion/environment-costs-fast-fashion-pollution-waste-sustainability-a8139386.html

I try to buy second hand as much as I can, but it's not always possible to find everything you need used.

It's a myth though that cheaper brands like H&M and Zara are more harmful to the environment than clothes from more expensive brands. There's very little difference in quality and environmental harm between cheap and expensive brands. Actually, some cheaper stores like H&M and C&A (in Europe) are adding more and more eco-conscious clothing to their collection. C&A has a growing range range of C2C gold level certified clothing, and the jeans cost less than €20.

There are some very eco-conscious brands on the market (although secondhand is always best) but most of those are hippie style clothes and not suitable for a corporate environment.

@ixtap  maybe Zara is considered more high-end where you live? It's not expensive at all in my country. It's more expensive than Primark / H&M, where you'd pay €15-€20 for a pair of jeans, but at €15-€30 for a pair of jeans I wouldn't consider them expensive, just one level above super-cheap.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Kate Middleton wore it, the clothes look pretty chic. Our Queen Maxima dresses her kids in Zara and H&M as well. They have to wear affordable clothes every now and then so the public believes they're one of us.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I would avoid those shops because they promote a cycle of fashion that in not sustainable. way to go for second-hand clothes!

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/fashion/environment-costs-fast-fashion-pollution-waste-sustainability-a8139386.html

I try to buy second hand as much as I can, but it's not always possible to find everything you need used.

It's a myth though that cheaper brands like H&M and Zara are more harmful to the environment than clothes from more expensive brands. There's very little difference in quality and environmental harm between cheap and expensive brands. Actually, some cheaper stores like H&M and C&A (in Europe) are adding more and more eco-conscious clothing to their collection. C&A has a growing range range of C2C gold level certified clothing, and the jeans cost less than €20.

There are some very eco-conscious brands on the market (although secondhand is always best) but most of those are hippie style clothes and not suitable for a corporate environment.

@ixtap  maybe Zara is considered more high-end where you live? It's not expensive at all in my country. It's more expensive than Primark / H&M, where you'd pay €15-€20 for a pair of jeans, but at €15-€30 for a pair of jeans I wouldn't consider them expensive, just one level above super-cheap.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Kate Middleton wore it, the clothes look pretty chic. Our Queen Maxima dresses her kids in Zara and H&M as well. They have to wear affordable clothes every now and then so the public believes they're one of us.

If those jeans cost less than 20 euros, how much is the person who made them getting? Environmental harm isn't all about fibers and dyes. It's also about keeping people poor. Poor communities have no other choice than to pollute with sewerage, chop down forests to heat with wood, pollute the air if coal is cheap, trade or consume endangered animals, etc. That's why organisations like Jane Goodall are so concerned with supporting communities near the areas they want to conserve.

[Hula Hoop]

If those jeans cost less than 20 euros, how much is the person who made them getting? Environmental harm isn't all about fibers and dyes. It's also about keeping people poor. Poor communities have no other choice than to pollute with sewerage, chop down forests to heat with wood, pollute the air if coal is cheap, trade or consume endangered animals, etc. That's why organisations like Jane Goodall are so concerned with supporting communities near the areas they want to conserve.

I agree - the conditions and wages of the workers who made the clothes, usually in poor countries, is a big concern.  Especially after the Rana Center disaster in Bangladesh a few years ago.  https://nordic.businessinsider.com/heres-how-much-hms-clothes-would-cost-if-factory-got-paid-sustainable-salaries-2017-6/

[Imma]

If those jeans cost less than 20 euros, how much is the person who made them getting? Environmental harm isn't all about fibers and dyes. It's also about keeping people poor. Poor communities have no other choice than to pollute with sewerage, chop down forests to heat with wood, pollute the air if coal is cheap, trade or consume endangered animals, etc. That's why organisations like Jane Goodall are so concerned with supporting communities near the areas they want to conserve.

I agree - the conditions and wages of the workers who made the clothes, usually in poor countries, is a big concern.  Especially after the Rana Center disaster in Bangladesh a few years ago.  https://nordic.businessinsider.com/heres-how-much-hms-clothes-would-cost-if-factory-got-paid-sustainable-salaries-2017-6/

That's true, but it's not like they get paid more when the clothes are more expensive. The difference goes into the pocket of the merchants, not into the pockets of the ladies who sew the clothes. 

The problem with ethical clothing is that there are several aspects to consider: social aspects (like child labour) environmental aspects (like the use of harmful dyes and treatments) and economic aspects (fair trade). I am not aware of any brand that does well on all of these aspects.

There are also many different accreditations for conscious fashion. A company like H&M is FLA accredited, which means their factories meet the FLA standards - that honestly means they're just slightly better than other factories in the same country, it's not what we would consider normal working circumstances in the western world. That doesn't mean there's fair trade, which is almost impossible to achieve for a large first-world company getting their supplies from third-world countries. There are several certified organic accreditations that a company can achieve, but just because they are using organic fabric, that doesn't mean they treat their workers well or there is fair trade.

It's not like I haven't done my research into this. I think the most important thing is to try and buy secondhand, but I know that's not always possible. The second important thing is to wear all your clothes until they are worn out. You shouldn't buy items that you're only going to wear 5 times. I wear the same times for years and years. The third important thing is to have the smallest amount of clothes possible. Not all clothing is easy to find on the used market. I think about 75% of my clothing is either secondhand or homemade, but about 25% is not. For that 25% I have no problems going to stores like H&M.

I only buy quality pieces that will last for years, I've done the research, I'm trying to limit my ecological footprint as much as I can, but I also need some things to wear. That means I will buy maybe 2 or 3 new pieces of clothing on a yearly base and I'm ok with that.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

If those jeans cost less than 20 euros, how much is the person who made them getting? Environmental harm isn't all about fibers and dyes. It's also about keeping people poor. Poor communities have no other choice than to pollute with sewerage, chop down forests to heat with wood, pollute the air if coal is cheap, trade or consume endangered animals, etc. That's why organisations like Jane Goodall are so concerned with supporting communities near the areas they want to conserve.

I agree - the conditions and wages of the workers who made the clothes, usually in poor countries, is a big concern.  Especially after the Rana Center disaster in Bangladesh a few years ago.  https://nordic.businessinsider.com/heres-how-much-hms-clothes-would-cost-if-factory-got-paid-sustainable-salaries-2017-6/

That's true, but it's not like they get paid more when the clothes are more expensive. The difference goes into the pocket of the merchants, not into the pockets of the ladies who sew the clothes. 

The problem with ethical clothing is that there are several aspects to consider: social aspects (like child labour) environmental aspects (like the use of harmful dyes and treatments) and economic aspects (fair trade). I am not aware of any brand that does well on all of these aspects.

There are also many different accreditations for conscious fashion. A company like H&M is FLA accredited, which means their factories meet the FLA standards - that honestly means they're just slightly better than other factories in the same country, it's not what we would consider normal working circumstances in the western world. That doesn't mean there's fair trade, which is almost impossible to achieve for a large first-world company getting their supplies from third-world countries. There are several certified organic accreditations that a company can achieve, but just because they are using organic fabric, that doesn't mean they treat their workers well or there is fair trade.

It's not like I haven't done my research into this. I think the most important thing is to try and buy secondhand, but I know that's not always possible. The second important thing is to wear all your clothes until they are worn out. You shouldn't buy items that you're only going to wear 5 times. I wear the same times for years and years. The third important thing is to have the smallest amount of clothes possible. Not all clothing is easy to find on the used market. I think about 75% of my clothing is either secondhand or homemade, but about 25% is not. For that 25% I have no problems going to stores like H&M.

I only buy quality pieces that will last for years, I've done the research, I'm trying to limit my ecological footprint as much as I can, but I also need some things to wear. That means I will buy maybe 2 or 3 new pieces of clothing on a yearly base and I'm ok with that.

Totally agree with you. I happen to really enjoy thrift store shopping. It's a hobby. But I know some people dislike it or don't have the time. There are other strategies to make the most of clothes, as you have pointed out.

[OtherJen]

Which raises the question for me, how can you move your family to another country without the requisite cash on hand to support them for at least a year??

That's what virtually every immigrant since the dawn of time has done.

Parents moved to the States in '92 with about $4k in cash and six kids. Not every decision in life is made having the resources to fully complement it. Sometimes you just roll with the punches and hope/work/struggle for the best results

Yeah, my best friend and her parents left Vietnam in a boat with the clothes on their backs. They ended up here via a refugee resettlement program and basically started from scratch. Two of my grandparents and their parents and siblings came here as migrant farmers and settled where they could get factory jobs. They raised my dad and his 6 siblings first in a 2-bedroom apartment and then in a 3-bedroom bungalow. My oldest uncles, all born in the USA, were in their late teens by that point.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Which raises the question for me, how can you move your family to another country without the requisite cash on hand to support them for at least a year??

That's what virtually every immigrant since the dawn of time has done.

Parents moved to the States in '92 with about $4k in cash and six kids. Not every decision in life is made having the resources to fully complement it. Sometimes you just roll with the punches and hope/work/struggle for the best results

Yeah, my best friend and her parents left Vietnam in a boat with the clothes on their backs. They ended up here via a refugee resettlement program and basically started from scratch. Two of my grandparents and their parents and siblings came here as migrant farmers and settled where they could get factory jobs. They raised my dad and his 6 siblings first in a 2-bedroom apartment and then in a 3-bedroom bungalow. My oldest uncles, all born in the USA, were in their late teens by that point.

Would I be right in thinking that none of these individuals lived so far beyond their means as to ask a younger, single relative to co-sign a loan?

[OtherJen]

Which raises the question for me, how can you move your family to another country without the requisite cash on hand to support them for at least a year??

That's what virtually every immigrant since the dawn of time has done.

Parents moved to the States in '92 with about $4k in cash and six kids. Not every decision in life is made having the resources to fully complement it. Sometimes you just roll with the punches and hope/work/struggle for the best results

Yeah, my best friend and her parents left Vietnam in a boat with the clothes on their backs. They ended up here via a refugee resettlement program and basically started from scratch. Two of my grandparents and their parents and siblings came here as migrant farmers and settled where they could get factory jobs. They raised my dad and his 6 siblings first in a 2-bedroom apartment and then in a 3-bedroom bungalow. My oldest uncles, all born in the USA, were in their late teens by that point.

Would I be right in thinking that none of these individuals lived so far beyond their means as to ask a younger, single relative to co-sign a loan?

How could I possibly answer that, as I don’t have access to that information? I’m directly answering the literal question posed in the quoted box at the top. Lots of immigrants move to their new countries. Many of them move with little more than they can carry, for lots of reasons.

[TomTX]

My husbands aunt became a hoarder late in life. Very weird. When she passed away, her apartment was floor to ceiling with stuff and lots of it was from QVC in original bags and boxes and never used. Her apartment was infested with bed bugs and every single thing had to be thrown out. A clean up company had to come in with special gear so they didn't get eaten by the bugs. This was in an old, old apartment building and most likely no way to get rid of these bugs unless the whole building was fumigated. As far as I know, only her apartment was fumigated. I am sure the bed bugs were not brought in by her but her apartment got infested by others in the building. Probably every single apartment was infested. UGH! I had visited the apartment many years ago when her parents lived there and it was a tidy apartment. Can't imagine how this hoarder thing happened.

When my aunt and uncle bought an apartment complex, they would have a free keg and watermelon party for all the residents.

The kickoff for opening the kegs was a bug bomb set off in each and every apartment.

Just to be on topic:

My other aunt can't seem to even stay in the same house for more than a few years. She will buy an expensive, large house (uncle is deceased - it's just her and one small dog) - perform expensive redecorating and kitchen renovation. Within  a couple of years she's not happy with the house anymore and will repeat the process.

Of course, one of her "best friends" is a Realtor(tm).

[fredbear]

...
Would I be right in thinking that none of these individuals lived so far beyond their means as to ask a younger, single relative to co-sign a loan?

My understanding of the way the Vietnamese functioned in the Denver area when they got out of their shattered country about the time Congress collapsed American support was that very quickly they banded together and formed something like a credit union.  Pooled the little they had, listened to pitches, relied on their knowledge of one another to make the loans.  Everyone knew enough of each other to know that, say, young Ms Grimsqueaker was smart as a whip, had a good idea for a business, worked fiercely, upheld the old ways as regards debt, and was in every way a good candidate for a loan.  But young Mr Fredbear though smooth as a mongoose was lazy as a two-toed sloth, so the little the community had would not be risked with him.  Now it is almost 50 years later they have a part of town largely if informally their own, and it is fabulous.

I never heard of any reverse loans, where elders came a-borrowing from the young ones, though I suppose as the community matured, the credit pool grew more sophisticated, and some of the young ones succeeded, that it would eventually have happened.

[Hula Hoop]

Fredbear - fom what I understand, the Chinese community here in my town works similarly.  I think other immigrant communities are similar.

[TomTX]

My other aunt can't seem to even stay in the same house for more than a few years. She will buy an expensive, large house (uncle is deceased - it's just her and one small dog) - perform expensive redecorating and kitchen renovation. Within  a couple of years she's not happy with the house anymore and will repeat the process.

Of course, one of her "best friends" is a Realtor(tm).

Doesn't seem like a problem as long as she's making a profit after the sale.

I highly doubt she's making a profit. It's not like she's flipping them. She'll take perfectly nice, excellent cabinets, granite countertops and tile floor and replace with different cabinets, granite countertops and tile floor. Replace perfectly nice, nearly pristine neutral carpet with different carpet. Nothing that I would see as raising the value.  I'd ballpark she's spending at least 15% of the house value doing so. Plus all the usual costs of selling/buying houses. Using professional movers. Etc. I don't see how it would result in a profit. If she's relying on rising house values - she would get that in the existing house without all the additional costs.

[ysette9]

Perhaps with her husband deceased this is the way she passed her time to entertain herself/stay connected to others/have a project to not wallow in depression.

[Just Joe]

I called a few family members to tell them I've got a new job. In this job I will report to a CFO, but it's a massive company with lot of seperate entities, so it's just "a" CFO of this location, not "the" CFO.

My relatives all said congrats. And then all of them suggested I go shopping for clothes right away, because I can't work for a CFO wearing the type of clothes I wear now. What's wrong with what I wear now? There are no brand names on it. It's not expensive.

Seriously, I wear perfectly appropriate clothes to work but I try to find them secondhand or from shops like H&M and Zara. A black knee-length skirt is a black knee-length skirt. No one cares about the brand name.

Apparantly I also need a new coat. Why? Because I've had this one for years. Does it look worn out or old-fashioned? No, but you've had it for years. You shouldn't wear your clothes for such a long time. And it's boring because it's black.

Congrats to you on the new job! I may have seen your relatives this morn in the school drop off line. Children exited the car in front of us. All of them wearing brand name clothes with a certain logo prominently plastered front and back and head to toe.

I'll buy quality (durability). Don't need any "tribal signs" (logos, signalling) on my clothes though. ;)

[Imma]

I called a few family members to tell them I've got a new job. In this job I will report to a CFO, but it's a massive company with lot of seperate entities, so it's just "a" CFO of this location, not "the" CFO.

My relatives all said congrats. And then all of them suggested I go shopping for clothes right away, because I can't work for a CFO wearing the type of clothes I wear now. What's wrong with what I wear now? There are no brand names on it. It's not expensive.

Seriously, I wear perfectly appropriate clothes to work but I try to find them secondhand or from shops like H&M and Zara. A black knee-length skirt is a black knee-length skirt. No one cares about the brand name.

Apparantly I also need a new coat. Why? Because I've had this one for years. Does it look worn out or old-fashioned? No, but you've had it for years. You shouldn't wear your clothes for such a long time. And it's boring because it's black.

Congrats to you on the new job! I may have seen your relatives this morn in the school drop off line. Children exited the car in front of us. All of them wearing brand name clothes with a certain logo prominently plastered front and back and head to toe.

I'll buy quality (durability). Don't need any "tribal signs" (logos, signalling) on my clothes though. ;)

Same relative when I showed them the dress I altered for an upcoming wedding: "Ooh but you need to buy a matching blazer for when you walk from the wedding venue to the party venue. You need to treat yourself every now and then!" Yeah, treating myself by buying the one type of clothing I hate wearing. I have a very basic thin cardigan in a matching colour that will do just fine. I guess buying clothes is just how normal people reward themselves. For me, having an appropriate outfit for a wedding at a low cost ( to me and to the environment) is the reward.

[zolotiyeruki]

Same relative when I showed them the dress I altered for an upcoming wedding: "Ooh but you need to buy a matching blazer for when you walk from the wedding venue to the party venue. You need to treat yourself every now and then!" Yeah, treating myself by buying the one type of clothing I hate wearing. I have a very basic thin cardigan in a matching colour that will do just fine. I guess buying clothes is just how normal people reward themselves. For me, having an appropriate outfit for a wedding at a low cost ( to me and to the environment) is the reward.

Hang on.  Did they just suggest that you purchase a piece of clothing specifically just for walking from one location to another?

[Paul der Krake]

Same relative when I showed them the dress I altered for an upcoming wedding: "Ooh but you need to buy a matching blazer for when you walk from the wedding venue to the party venue. You need to treat yourself every now and then!" Yeah, treating myself by buying the one type of clothing I hate wearing. I have a very basic thin cardigan in a matching colour that will do just fine. I guess buying clothes is just how normal people reward themselves. For me, having an appropriate outfit for a wedding at a low cost ( to me and to the environment) is the reward.

Hang on.  Did they just suggest that you purchase a piece of clothing specifically just for walking from one location to another?

Life is journey, man.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Same relative when I showed them the dress I altered for an upcoming wedding: "Ooh but you need to buy a matching blazer for when you walk from the wedding venue to the party venue. You need to treat yourself every now and then!" Yeah, treating myself by buying the one type of clothing I hate wearing. I have a very basic thin cardigan in a matching colour that will do just fine. I guess buying clothes is just how normal people reward themselves. For me, having an appropriate outfit for a wedding at a low cost ( to me and to the environment) is the reward.

Hang on.  Did they just suggest that you purchase a piece of clothing specifically just for walking from one location to another?

I have a couple of car-to-bar shoes. They're not much good for anything else!

[Imma]

Same relative when I showed them the dress I altered for an upcoming wedding: "Ooh but you need to buy a matching blazer for when you walk from the wedding venue to the party venue. You need to treat yourself every now and then!" Yeah, treating myself by buying the one type of clothing I hate wearing. I have a very basic thin cardigan in a matching colour that will do just fine. I guess buying clothes is just how normal people reward themselves. For me, having an appropriate outfit for a wedding at a low cost ( to me and to the environment) is the reward.

Hang on.  Did they just suggest that you purchase a piece of clothing specifically just for walking from one location to another?

But what if someone happens to take a picture? Or when the party venue turns out to be cold? At some point you just need to accept you're a grown woman. You can't go on wearing thin plain button down cardigans instead of blazers. 

[Just Joe]

You need to treat yourself every now and then and today and tomorrow and next week. YOLO! How am i so broke?

[Cookie78]

You need to treat yourself every now and then and today and tomorrow and next week. YOLO! How am i so broke?

I'd just like to treat myself to a WHOLELOTTA FREEDOM!! YOLO

[Zikoris]

"Treating yourself" is such an interesting thing. Every time I hear that term from someone, it's trying to get me to buy something I don't even want or like at all - it's like, "That's not a treat! That's the opposite of a treat!"

[FiguringItOut]

Which raises the question for me, how can you move your family to another country without the requisite cash on hand to support them for at least a year??

That's what virtually every immigrant since the dawn of time has done.

Parents moved to the States in '92 with about $4k in cash and six kids. Not every decision in life is made having the resources to fully complement it. Sometimes you just roll with the punches and hope/work/struggle for the best results

Yep.  My parents came to the States in '89 with $1,800, 5 suitcases, two kids, and grandmother. 
My parents retired 5 years ago with NW in $2M+ range.

[Imma]

"Treating yourself" is such an interesting thing. Every time I hear that term from someone, it's trying to get me to buy something I don't even want or like at all - it's like, "That's not a treat! That's the opposite of a treat!"

You're a grown woman! Behalve like one and start enjoying proper treats! There's something wrong with you if you don't like treating yourself with these things. You're not a child anymore. 

[Zikoris]

"Treating yourself" is such an interesting thing. Every time I hear that term from someone, it's trying to get me to buy something I don't even want or like at all - it's like, "That's not a treat! That's the opposite of a treat!"

You're a grown woman! Behalve like one and start enjoying proper treats! There's something wrong with you if you don't like treating yourself with these things. You're not a child anymore.

LOL, that just reminded me of the one time I use the word treat - when I want gummy bears. Probably not a great way to appear more adult-like though. When my boyfriend says treat, he means blueberry yogurt.

[Davnasty]

"Treating yourself" is such an interesting thing. Every time I hear that term from someone, it's trying to get me to buy something I don't even want or like at all - it's like, "That's not a treat! That's the opposite of a treat!"

You're a grown woman! Behalve like one and start enjoying proper treats! There's something wrong with you if you don't like treating yourself with these things. You're not a child anymore.

LOL, that just reminded me of the one time I use the word treat - when I want gummy bears. Probably not a great way to appear more adult-like though. When my boyfriend says treat, he means blueberry yogurt.

Treats are what you get when you show someone how good you are at shaking hands or rolling over. Two treats for jumping through a hoop.

[Zikoris]

"Treating yourself" is such an interesting thing. Every time I hear that term from someone, it's trying to get me to buy something I don't even want or like at all - it's like, "That's not a treat! That's the opposite of a treat!"

You're a grown woman! Behalve like one and start enjoying proper treats! There's something wrong with you if you don't like treating yourself with these things. You're not a child anymore.

LOL, that just reminded me of the one time I use the word treat - when I want gummy bears. Probably not a great way to appear more adult-like though. When my boyfriend says treat, he means blueberry yogurt.

Treats are what you get when you show someone how good you are at shaking hands or rolling over. Two treats for jumping through a hoop.

So what you're saying is that when I need to jump through hoops trying to explain that buying crap I don't want is not actually a treat, I deserve two gummy bears? Sweet!

[Dee]

Two gummy bears? Have 5! You deserve it!

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Two gummy bears? Have 5! You deserve it!

Just make sure they're not the special sugar-free Haribo ones.