Relatives who just don't get it

[ixtap]

My parents appreciate that I can take care of myself and pamper them occasionally. Imagine my surprise when they first expressed this appreciation in words while I was in grad school!

On the other hand, the ILs just don't know how to have a relationship with us if we don't need anything from them. We have had two visits from them in 8 years, which bring the running total to 3 since they helped DH move for his first job after college.

[Dave1442397]

You ought to check to see if the neighbors have the same problem. I know someone who kept blowing up electronics. Power surges that seemed to affect them but not the neighbors.

In the end it was a problem specific to their house. Bad grounding revealed after minor fire.

Way ahead of you :) House isn't perfect by any means, but the whole neighborhood has the problem too. It's the grid. They did do something to the grounding a long time ago which helped, I'm guessing the box wasn't properly grounded? So instead of spectacular deaths, they get slow electronic deaths.

They could install a voltage regulator to prevent the issues that damage electronics - https://www.schneider-electric.us/en/product-range-presentation/63377-surevolt-%E2%84%A2automatic-voltage-regulator/

[Just Joe]

My parents appreciate that I can take care of myself and pamper them occasionally. Imagine my surprise when they first expressed this appreciation in words while I was in grad school!

On the other hand, the ILs just don't know how to have a relationship with us if we don't need anything from them. We have had two visits from them in 8 years, which bring the running total to 3 since they helped DH move for his first job after college.

It happens. It works that way in my family too. If you read the whole thread here there are some sad stories.

[accountingteacher]

Lots of shame to pass around today...

Call my mom and she tells me that my father co-signed brother 1's home loan a while back.  In the last few months brother 1 got behind on his mortgage because wife wasn't able to work temporarily (emergency fund???).  Missed payment(s) hurt father's credit.  Yesterday father was trying to co-sign a loan for niece - daughter of brother 2.  Brother 2 can't cosign because his credit is crap. He can't pay his bills and is always borrowing from father while living a super spendy lifestyle. Father is turned down for the car loan because of brother 1's missed house payment.

This makes me crazy! Father is in his 80s. He will never retire because of this shit.

These two brothers aren't the only sibling mooches.  Big family and lots of mooching.

Sure hope my siblings have kids who will pay for their retirement.  I'm not going to help them.

To make things worse loan application required dad to drive to my town where brother 2 also lives.  Dad didn't even mentioned that he was coming to town. I've lived here 8 years and dad has come to see me twice.  But he comes up all the time to see brother 2.  I'm treated like a practical stranger.  My best guess - I'm not needy.  Often referred to as the black sheep of my family.  My big crime... doing my own thing i.e. Taking care of myself.

** modified to change consigned to co-signed

Thank you for sharing this.  It has taken me almost 8 years but I have finally convinced my husband to embrace his 'black sheepishness'.  Stories like yours help.

[Sibley]

You ought to check to see if the neighbors have the same problem. I know someone who kept blowing up electronics. Power surges that seemed to affect them but not the neighbors.

In the end it was a problem specific to their house. Bad grounding revealed after minor fire.

Way ahead of you :) House isn't perfect by any means, but the whole neighborhood has the problem too. It's the grid. They did do something to the grounding a long time ago which helped, I'm guessing the box wasn't properly grounded? So instead of spectacular deaths, they get slow electronic deaths.

They could install a voltage regulator to prevent the issues that damage electronics - https://www.schneider-electric.us/en/product-range-presentation/63377-surevolt-%E2%84%A2automatic-voltage-regulator/

I'll be perfectly honest, given some of the other problems that my family is dealing with, we don't have capacity to do anything about the power. It's not bad enough to rise to the top of "needs attention" pile. Getting old sucks.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Well, this makes me sad and happy at the same time.  Sad at what you went through, and sad that she is the way she is.  Because: why?  Sometimes what happens early in life can completely fuck up your life.  And you can't MAKE someone want a normal life.

But happy that you and VSB have peace.

I was 30 when I had my wisdom teeth pulled.  Those drugs are some good stuff - I was HAPPY.  EVERYONE was my friend and I wanted to thank everyone.

That would explain it.

I had mine done at around age 20. Three of them froze properly. The last one did not. It wasn't the worst pain I've ever experienced: I rated it as only a 7 or 8 on a scale of 1 to 10. There are probably still finger marks in the chair arms, but it wasn't from the discomfort, the blood and bits of bone everywhere, or the TMJ joint on one side of my jaw unhinging like a python's. It was because the dental surgeon started humming and singing show tunes while he worked. Now, he'd been setting off my gay-dar for quite a while and when he started belting out Eponine's big solo "On My Own" from "Les Miserables" he pretty much removed all doubt. I really didn't care about his personal life, and his singing voice was actually pretty good, but his choice of repertoire was giving me TMI problems to go along with the TMJ problems. I got through the experience by fantasizing about all the different ways I could take his scalpel away and use it violently. But to this day I have flashbacks every time I hear that song.

From a superstitious perspective I kind of set myself up for the experience by agreeing to have the dental surgery done on the 13th day of the month, but since it was a Wednesday in April instead of a Friday in October I figured I was probably all right. Realistically, there's probably no such thing as a good day to pay someone to gouge teeth out of your jawbone without sewing up the holes left behind.

Afterwards I drove myself to university to turn in an assignment and take a test; it was safe to drive because all they used was injectable local anesthetic which wore off a couple hours later. I drooled a bit until that happened and probably looked kind of ridiculous sitting in the class. There were some pain pills to start in the evening, but after trying one and realizing they don't work on me I ignored the rest because I decided they were placebos so I ignored them. Oil of cloves worked much better. Subsequent surgeries, including two ACL replacements which I rate as a 4 and a 3 on the pain scale, I handled with basic ice and Ibuprofen.

I find that opiates, for me, have zero effect on actual pain and in my opinion just make it more annoying. One of my mutations, I suppose, or maybe it's my lack of faith making the placebo effect not work. I get all the unpleasant side effects including nausea, constipation, cognitive impairment, and the desire to cause massive physical and verbal damage to others. But not one bit of the joy.

[Sibley]

I find that opiates, for me, have zero effect on actual pain and in my opinion just make it more annoying. One of my mutations, I suppose, or maybe it's my lack of faith making the placebo effect not work. I get all the unpleasant side effects including nausea, constipation, cognitive impairment, and the desire to cause massive physical and verbal damage to others. But not one bit of the joy.

You are not alone there. Though they do make me fall asleep, or maybe lose consciousness? Regardless, I'm out.

[ixtap]

Closer to Grim Squeakers story without the adoption, I keep an eye on a teen mother. She always forgets to take diapers out and about, but we are spending today sitting in the courthouse because Dad brought the kid back with a diaper rash. I hand the kid a sippy cup, only to notice large cubes in the cup. Mom is chipping up vegetables to out in the sippy cup. And recently told me the kid will never have cow's milk while feeding the kid Alfredo sauce.

The kid is doing as well as any kid in the situation, and has a slew of caseworkers, but I am learning just how judgemental I really am.

I have also mastered not carrying any cash or plastic so that it is easier to say no to requests. Just dropped a hint about buyer her lunch, but gee darn, I had to take my purse out to the car because I couldn't bring the form from my own lunch in.

I do buy meals occasionally, I just won't be manipulated into doing it.

[Cressida]

I had mine done at around age 20. Three of them froze properly. The last one did not. It wasn't the worst pain I've ever experienced: I rated it as only a 7 or 8 on a scale of 1 to 10. There are probably still finger marks in the chair arms, but it wasn't from the discomfort, the blood and bits of bone everywhere, or the TMJ joint on one side of my jaw unhinging like a python's. It was because the dental surgeon started humming and singing show tunes while he worked. Now, he'd been setting off my gay-dar for quite a while and when he started belting out Eponine's big solo "On My Own" from "Les Miserables" he pretty much removed all doubt. I really didn't care about his personal life, and his singing voice was actually pretty good, but his choice of repertoire was giving me TMI problems to go along with the TMJ problems. I got through the experience by fantasizing about all the different ways I could take his scalpel away and use it violently. But to this day I have flashbacks every time I hear that song.

oh my god, I would be in jail for homicide if this had happened to me. I admire your coping skills.

[Prairie Stash]

Lots of shame to pass around today...

Call my mom and she tells me that my father consigned brother 1's home loan a while back.  In the last few months brother 1 got behind on his mortgage because wife wasn't able to work temporarily (emergency fund???).  Missed payment(s) hurt father's credit.  Yesterday father was trying to consign a loan for niece - daughter of brother 2.  Brother 2 can't cosign because his credit is crap. He can't pay his bills and is always borrowing from father while living a super spendy lifestyle. Father is turned down for the car loan because of brother 1's missed house payment.

This makes me crazy! Father is in his 80s. He will never retire because of this shit.

These two brothers aren't the only sibling mooches.  Big family and lots of mooching.

Sure hope my siblings have kids who will pay for their retirement.  I'm not going to help them.

To make things worse loan application required dad to drive to my town where brother 2 also lives.  Dad didn't even mentioned that he was coming to town. I've lived here 8 years and dad has come to see me twice.  But he comes up all the time to see brother 2.  I'm treated like a practical stranger.  My best guess - I'm not needy.  Often referred to as the black sheep of my family.  My big crime... doing my own thing i.e. Taking care of myself.

White sheep of the family. The only one with their act together.

Black Sheep is the correct term. @BeautifulDay is probably the only one in the family with bank accounts in the black, credit rating super high.

It's high time that we Mustachians regard ourselves as the black sheep in consumer culture, the outliers, the mutations from $pendypant$ World, the recessives who got a double dose of frugality genes.

Black sheep means you're a non-conformist. Its not derogatory or bad, it means you stick out for being unique (some people consider being unique bad I guess). If you look at a flock of sheep, the black are noticeable, the white ones are boring and blend together. This is from historical times when everyone had white sheep because it was easier to dye their wool. Black Sheep have wool that changes colour with age, its harder to process so they were less likely to be kept as breeding stock.

Would you rather be like everyone else and a white sheep? Or stand out from the crowd and be the black sheep? Being the black sheep is a compliment, being called a white sheep in a family of spendypants is an insult.

[Abundant life]

Lots of shame to pass around today...

Call my mom and she tells me that my father consigned brother 1's home loan a while back.  In the last few months brother 1 got behind on his mortgage because wife wasn't able to work temporarily (emergency fund???).  Missed payment(s) hurt father's credit.  Yesterday father was trying to consign a loan for niece - daughter of brother 2.  Brother 2 can't cosign because his credit is crap. He can't pay his bills and is always borrowing from father while living a super spendy lifestyle. Father is turned down for the car loan because of brother 1's missed house payment.

This makes me crazy! Father is in his 80s. He will never retire because of this shit.

These two brothers aren't the only sibling mooches.  Big family and lots of mooching.

Sure hope my siblings have kids who will pay for their retirement.  I'm not going to help them.

To make things worse loan application required dad to drive to my town where brother 2 also lives.  Dad didn't even mentioned that he was coming to town. I've lived here 8 years and dad has come to see me twice.  But he comes up all the time to see brother 2.  I'm treated like a practical stranger.  My best guess - I'm not needy.  Often referred to as the black sheep of my family.  My big crime... doing my own thing i.e. Taking care of myself.

White sheep of the family. The only one with their act together.

Black Sheep is the correct term. @BeautifulDay is probably the only one in the family with bank accounts in the black, credit rating super high.

It's high time that we Mustachians regard ourselves as the black sheep in consumer culture, the outliers, the mutations from $pendypant$ World, the recessives who got a double dose of frugality genes.

Black sheep means you're a non-conformist. Its not derogatory or bad, it means you stick out for being unique (some people consider being unique bad I guess). If you look at a flock of sheep, the black are noticeable, the white ones are boring and blend together. This is from historical times when everyone had white sheep because it was easier to dye their wool. Black Sheep have wool that changes colour with age, its harder to process so they were less likely to be kept as breeding stock.

Would you rather be like everyone else and a white sheep? Or stand out from the crowd and be the black sheep? Being the black sheep is a compliment, being called a white sheep in a family of spendypants is an insult.

Or as they say in Mexico, the black rice!

[SwordGuy]

You ought to check to see if the neighbors have the same problem. I know someone who kept blowing up electronics. Power surges that seemed to affect them but not the neighbors.

In the end it was a problem specific to their house. Bad grounding revealed after minor fire.

Way ahead of you :) House isn't perfect by any means, but the whole neighborhood has the problem too. It's the grid. They did do something to the grounding a long time ago which helped, I'm guessing the box wasn't properly grounded? So instead of spectacular deaths, they get slow electronic deaths.

They could install a voltage regulator to prevent the issues that damage electronics - https://www.schneider-electric.us/en/product-range-presentation/63377-surevolt-%E2%84%A2automatic-voltage-regulator/

Voltage regulators are great.   Kept my electronics going when I was in Ethiopia for a year.   

[eliza]

Since I hijacked another thread to post about my spendypants sister and BIL, I thought I'd share my favorite recent story here.

My BIL like his toys.  A lot.  (My sister also likes to spend money, but this particular story isn't about her.)  He has a BMW, a top-end Harley, a half-dozen expensive guitars, every video gaming system known to man, a giant TV that he had to have that is way too big for the size rooms they have and is pretty much unwatchable, etc, etc, etc.

His newest thing: he's going to buy an airplane. Because, "It will be cheaper and easier than traveling by car for weekend getaways (that are ~four hours away)."   

WTF?  I find that hard to believe.

[kaypinkHH]

@eliza I'm just waiting until my BIL says something similar.

Mr HH's brother and his wife are living the big life! They have a financed LAMBOURGINI, 2 giant jeep things (also financed),  a McMansion, giant tvs (at one point they had 6 tvs in their house..for 2 people). All nice high end furniture, and appliances. Now they have 2 kids, and their house is FULL to the brim with toys, will probably need a new house soon.

They own a rental property but it is currently vacant (looking for new tenants).

Their monthly burn rate at the moment must be INSANE.

But yet they can't afford to move back to a LCOL area to be near family because the decrease in income will be too much to bear. #priorities.

[Roadrunner53]

We have a factory in our town where machine operators were making $80K and up depending on OT. A lot of these people were married (both working in the same department) and were living the life you describe: McMansions, BMW's, exotic vacations, motorcycles, boats, you name it, they bought it. Well, one day, without any notice they closed this department down. Not the whole factory but there were too many people to absorb so they all got laid off. BOOM! Where do you get a factory job where both husband and wife can make that kind of money per year? Rude awakening. A lot of them had to have a serious lifestyle adjustment. They probably didn't save in the 401K's either. If they did, they probably drained it dry to get by. Jobs come and go and the gravy train doesn't run forever.

[MgoSam]

We have a factory in our town where machine operators were making $80K and up depending on OT.

 Jobs come and go and the gravy train doesn't run forever.

Yup! It's really unfortunate how many manufacturing jobs have gone away over the past few decades but what really annoys me is how little many of the workers saved for such a downturn. I know a guy that went to ND and was bragging about how much money he was earning. Well he's back and just as broke because while he was earning a ton of money, he was spending it just as fast and is in roughly the same spot he was in.

[eliza]

We have a factory in our town where machine operators were making $80K and up depending on OT.

 Jobs come and go and the gravy train doesn't run forever.

Yup! It's really unfortunate how many manufacturing jobs have gone away over the past few decades but what really annoys me is how little many of the workers saved for such a downturn. I know a guy that went to ND and was bragging about how much money he was earning. Well he's back and just as broke because while he was earning a ton of money, he was spending it just as fast and is in roughly the same spot he was in.

This! So much this!  My hometown has what used to be a large factory for a big corporation.  For over a decade they've been scaling down operations and moving more and more production overseas and to lower cost states.  I have a cousin that worked there making ~$100,000 a year doing relatively unskilled factory work.  He was let go in the latest round of layoffs and was somehow shocked that this happened.  He apparently had done nothing financially to prepare for the eventuality.  So now, he'll be lucky if he can get a job at $40,000 - $50,000 a year and just doesn't understand how he and his wife (who works and makes ~$50,000) will keep up with the payment on the house, three cars, boat, ATV, etc., etc.  Ummm, you don't.  You could barely afford your lifestyle before, you definitely can't now.

[Just Joe]

All reasons to avoid the payments lifestyle. The thought of managing a half dozen loans is worrying to me. That's the best part of being mortgage free in a few more years. Unemployment would be far less stressful. Any old job, and a careful budget would keep the lights on and the taxes paid. 

[Roadrunner53]

Financial education should be taught in school. People just don't get it that one day they will get old and if they think Social Security is going to cut it, they are WRONG! Seems financial education should be right up there with reading, writing and math skills. Many athletes get millions of dollars in their contracts. They have a short career and blew all their money along the way! There are not too many careers for washed up athletes to make millions of dollars once their contracts expire. Where is the common sense?

[ringer707]

We have a factory in our town where machine operators were making $80K and up depending on OT. A lot of these people were married (both working in the same department) and were living the life you describe: McMansions, BMW's, exotic vacations, motorcycles, boats, you name it, they bought it. Well, one day, without any notice they closed this department down. Not the whole factory but there were too many people to absorb so they all got laid off. BOOM! Where do you get a factory job where both husband and wife can make that kind of money per year? Rude awakening. A lot of them had to have a serious lifestyle adjustment. They probably didn't save in the 401K's either. If they did, they probably drained it dry to get by. Jobs come and go and the gravy train doesn't run forever.

I remember watching a segment on CBS Sunday morning (maybe last year) about the downturn in oil production and how it was affecting oil rig workers. One man was making something like $1000-$1200 PER DAY and was saying how he could no longer make his truck payments. He then said that last time this happened he and his wife almost lost their house. First of all, why do you have truck payments? With money like that, you could easily save and buy a fully loaded jacked-up behemoth in cash. Also, clearly this has happened to you before, so why didn't you put away some of the money?!

[Cowardly Toaster]

We have a factory in our town where machine operators were making $80K and up depending on OT. A lot of these people were married (both working in the same department) and were living the life you describe: McMansions, BMW's, exotic vacations, motorcycles, boats, you name it, they bought it. Well, one day, without any notice they closed this department down. Not the whole factory but there were too many people to absorb so they all got laid off. BOOM! Where do you get a factory job where both husband and wife can make that kind of money per year? Rude awakening. A lot of them had to have a serious lifestyle adjustment. They probably didn't save in the 401K's either. If they did, they probably drained it dry to get by. Jobs come and go and the gravy train doesn't run forever.

I remember watching a segment on CBS Sunday morning (maybe last year) about the downturn in oil production and how it was affecting oil rig workers. One man was making something like $1000-$1200 PER DAY and was saying how he could no longer make his truck payments. He then said that last time this happened he and his wife almost lost their house. First of all, why do you have truck payments? With money like that, you could easily save and buy a fully loaded jacked-up behemoth in cash. Also, clearly this has happened to you before, so why didn't you put away some of the money?!

Oh boy, I see you're not familiar with oil field types. They spend and spend until they get laid off.

[saguaro]

All reasons to avoid the payments lifestyle. The thought of managing a half dozen loans is worrying to me. That's the best part of being mortgage free in a few more years. Unemployment would be far less stressful. Any old job, and a careful budget would keep the lights on and the taxes paid.

ITA on this.   DH lost his job during the Great Recession and was out of work for over 2 years.   We managed to keep all bills paid, including the mortgage, paid off the credit card, and build some savings during that time.   Had both cars paid off, mortgage payment was low for an HCOL area (bought townhome aka "starter home" in mid 90s and decided to stay there) and little credit card debt (one card, low balance, that's the one we paid off).   Smaller home meant lower energy costs and the fact that DH wasn't making his long commute anymore saved on gas.   And we still went ahead with replacing windows on our home for which we contracted for before DH lost his job.   Windows were leaking so the job had to be done, but we paid for it in cash.

Now DH's sister's husband makes very good money when he has a job.   Unfortunately the last 15 years, he's been in and out of work since losing the one steady corporate job he had for 25 years.   Not his fault, just a lot of corporate restructurings, in one case the well known company just went bankrupt overnight.  Several of the jobs have been contract work.  They have had some lean times where they cut back but once BIL has a job they go right back to spending on boats, a horse, a trailer for the horse, the Silverado to pull the trailer, stable expenses, plus two condos on top of their regular home and let's not forget the BMW.  In spite of the lean times and constant churn in jobs, they just spend.  We just learned they had to pull out of their retirement funds to pay bills during the last round of unemployment.   BIL just turned 67 and is still working, no change in all the spending.  I can see it getting pretty tough when he finally has to stop for good. 

[Just Joe]

The payment lifestyle was a really important lesson that we taught our kids. People with fancy things are not always rich.

I wasn't raised like that. My parents were mostly cash spenders rather than payment spenders.

It didn't dawn on me until I was much older how other people manage their money sometimes. Duh!

[Dollar Slice]

This is more of a "relatives who sort of get it" post... One of my parents told me a funny story about writing/depositing an extremely large check (six figures) in the process of deciding to pay off a home equity loan. Apparently they had put all their home renovations and at least one brand new luxury car (BMW) into an adjustable rate home equity loan, because something something deductible interest something something. (I have no idea if the math actually worked on that one, but they probably made out like bandits by investing instead of paying it off the last couple years.) Now that deduction is gone and (this is the "getting it" part) they cashed out some investments and wrote a check to pay it off. Apparently bank tellers are suspicious of women who walk into banks to pay off six-figure loans. And now everyone at the bank calls them by name and wants to sell them some high-end investment services because they think they must have just inherited a ton of money.

[mustachepungoeshere]

We have a factory in our town where machine operators were making $80K and up depending on OT. A lot of these people were married (both working in the same department) and were living the life you describe: McMansions, BMW's, exotic vacations, motorcycles, boats, you name it, they bought it. Well, one day, without any notice they closed this department down. Not the whole factory but there were too many people to absorb so they all got laid off. BOOM! Where do you get a factory job where both husband and wife can make that kind of money per year? Rude awakening. A lot of them had to have a serious lifestyle adjustment. They probably didn't save in the 401K's either. If they did, they probably drained it dry to get by. Jobs come and go and the gravy train doesn't run forever.

I remember watching a segment on CBS Sunday morning (maybe last year) about the downturn in oil production and how it was affecting oil rig workers. One man was making something like $1000-$1200 PER DAY and was saying how he could no longer make his truck payments. He then said that last time this happened he and his wife almost lost their house. First of all, why do you have truck payments? With money like that, you could easily save and buy a fully loaded jacked-up behemoth in cash. Also, clearly this has happened to you before, so why didn't you put away some of the money?!

Oh boy, I see you're not familiar with oil field types. They spend and spend until they get laid off.

And mining types.

As mines in the Hunter have shed staff, mates of mine opted for FIFO work to maintain the lifestyle.

That means working three weeks on, one week off, to pay for apartments, cars and gym memberships that are only used for a week every month.

[stashja]

Well, it’s happened again. My 32-year-old brother got fired from his good, well-paying job in L.A. ... for cause. He kept doing something on company hours that he had been told not to do. My parents explain it as a good thing because now he can go back to school, get an MBA, etc etc. So they gave him $10,000 and are paying the rent on his apartment while he “studies.” (He’s been trying that intermittently since 2007.)

I don’t envy him the money. I don’t need money. My partner and I live well frugally. But they are setting my brother up for absolute disaster. They just taught him that it’s not necessary to make an effort to remain employed. I don’t want him living on the street (and will never take him in. He despises me, treats my partner as if he doesn’t exist, and has explicitly stated he would never live in our “boring” midwestern area.)

Am I right to be mad at them for helping him to create his inability to survive in he real world? I can’t tell anyone except the forum how mad and worried I am.

[eliza]

Well, it’s happened again. My 32-year-old brother got fired from his good, well-paying job in L.A. ... for cause. He kept doing something on company hours that he had been told not to do. My parents explain it as a good thing because now he can go back to school, get an MBA, etc etc. So they gave him $10,000 and are paying the rent on his apartment while he “studies.” (He’s been trying that intermittently since 2007.)

I don’t envy him the money. I don’t need money. My partner and I live well frugally. But they are setting my brother up for absolute disaster. They just taught him that it’s not necessary to make an effort to remain employed. I don’t want him living on the street (and will never take him in. He despises me, treats my partner as if he doesn’t exist, and has explicitly stated he would never live in our “boring” midwestern area.)

Am I right to be mad at them for helping him to create his inability to survive in he real world? I can’t tell anyone except the forum how mad and worried I am.

I think that it is reasonable to be mad at them.  It's like family constantly enabling an addict.  Eventually it's all going to come crashing down. 

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Well, it’s happened again. My 32-year-old brother got fired from his good, well-paying job in L.A. ... for cause. He kept doing something on company hours that he had been told not to do. My parents explain it as a good thing because now he can go back to school, get an MBA, etc etc. So they gave him $10,000 and are paying the rent on his apartment while he “studies.” (He’s been trying that intermittently since 2007.)

I don’t envy him the money. I don’t need money. My partner and I live well frugally. But they are setting my brother up for absolute disaster. They just taught him that it’s not necessary to make an effort to remain employed. I don’t want him living on the street (and will never take him in. He despises me, treats my partner as if he doesn’t exist, and has explicitly stated he would never live in our “boring” midwestern area.)

Am I right to be mad at them for helping him to create his inability to survive in he real world? I can’t tell anyone except the forum how mad and worried I am.

Some people learn the hard way, regardless of what anyone else tries to tell them or model for them. Sounds like your parents and brother are in that space. Nothing you can do about it, and worrying certainly won't help.

[chaskavitch]

DH and I cancelled cable earlier this year, both for savings and because we were never watching it.  We just complained about the commercials and wasted $5 at a time renting movies we were too lazy to Redbox or too impatient to wait for on Netflix.  We've been surprisingly happy with it.  I mean, now we're behind on Game of Thrones, and I miss Jeopardy, but otherwise we have much less time wasted watching shows we don't care about just because they're on.

My mother-in-law just bought DH a HD TV antenna for his birthday.  She actually said "I know you don't want this, but if I'm going to be coming up once a month, I need to be able to watch my football." 

Why would you spend $80 (I just looked it up) on your son's 30th birthday on a present you KNOW he doesn't want, and also not get him anything else?  He even sent out a list of things he needs (tools, new work pants, etc.) so we wouldn't get more clutter that wouldn't be used, so I know she had other options.  She does like to buy presents, it's definitely her love language, so that makes it even stranger to me.

DH waited until she was out of earshot and said "I'm kind of sad about the antenna", which made me extra sad.  Plus now he has to make the time to install it either on our roof or in our attic, neither of which tasks are appealing in the slightest.  She might not get her football this year anyway because of our sheer laziness.

So, we have neither put up this antenna nor gotten rid of it.  MIL is in town this weekend, and has generously informed us that she's giving us her recently deceased mother's TV to put in our guest room.  I think she falls asleep with the TV on at home, and also watches late night talk shows when she can't sleep, and wants those options when she comes up for a few days every month or two.  I'm not sure what she thinks she's going to be watching on said TV, though.  Netflix, maybe? 

Just a note - my MIL is a great lady and so nice, I just don't relate to a lot of the things she values that she thinks WE should think are important too.  Also she keeps giving our kid singing stuffed animals for holidays...

[Dicey]

My favourite period of history is between the two world wars and you still read about women of independent means then.

@shelivesthedream, have you read the Maisie Dobbs books by Jacqueline Winspear? Right up this alley.

[shelivesthedream]

My favourite period of history is between the two world wars and you still read about women of independent means then.

@shelivesthedream, have you read the Maisie Dobbs books by Jacqueline Winspear? Right up this alley.

Thanks for the tip! I've added them to my book list.

[Goldielocks]

chaskavitch -- my SIL kept giving our son, aged 14, stuffed animals for birthday / christmas.  He received 3 of them in 2 years.  She lives 4 miles away, so sees him regularly.

Teenage boys aren't really into stuffed animals, but it was from her MLM, so I guess that's ok / worse / IDK....  confused. 

[Sibley]

chaskavitch -- my SIL kept giving our son, aged 14, stuffed animals for birthday / christmas.  He received 3 of them in 2 years.  She lives 4 miles away, so sees him regularly.

Teenage boys aren't really into stuffed animals, but it was from her MLM, so I guess that's ok / worse / IDK....  confused.

Thank goodness for donation.

[zolotiyeruki]

Also she keeps giving our kid singing stuffed animals for holidays...

Oh my goodness, how I've grown to hate stuffed animals.  Ok, I get that some kids have a special animal that's great for comforting them, etc.  That's absolutely fine.  What I *don't* like is how many people think that they make good gifts, and that the one *they* give will be the one that becomes the treasured toy.  As a result, we have loads of useless, space-hogging stuffed ...things of all sorts cluttering up our house.  We got rid of a whole bunch at/after a yard sale last year, but the kids *still* don't play with any of the ones that are left, except for a few small ones that they chose themselves.

[Roadrunner53]

Dogs like stuffed animals. One of my dogs chews off the ears, noses, legs and tails. Stuffing everywhere!

[Sibley]

Also she keeps giving our kid singing stuffed animals for holidays...

Oh my goodness, how I've grown to hate stuffed animals.  Ok, I get that some kids have a special animal that's great for comforting them, etc.  That's absolutely fine.  What I *don't* like is how many people think that they make good gifts, and that the one *they* give will be the one that becomes the treasured toy.  As a result, we have loads of useless, space-hogging stuffed ...things of all sorts cluttering up our house.  We got rid of a whole bunch at/after a yard sale last year, but the kids *still* don't play with any of the ones that are left, except for a few small ones that they chose themselves.

Just because someone gives it to you doesn't mean you have to have to keep it.

[RWD]

Also she keeps giving our kid singing stuffed animals for holidays...

Oh my goodness, how I've grown to hate stuffed animals.  Ok, I get that some kids have a special animal that's great for comforting them, etc.  That's absolutely fine.  What I *don't* like is how many people think that they make good gifts, and that the one *they* give will be the one that becomes the treasured toy.  As a result, we have loads of useless, space-hogging stuffed ...things of all sorts cluttering up our house.  We got rid of a whole bunch at/after a yard sale last year, but the kids *still* don't play with any of the ones that are left, except for a few small ones that they chose themselves.

Just because someone gives it to you doesn't mean you have to have to keep it.

Both sets of grandparents for my brother-in-law's kid give gifts embroidered with the [unusual] child's name on them... Yep, even the stuffed animals...

[Sibley]

Also she keeps giving our kid singing stuffed animals for holidays...

Oh my goodness, how I've grown to hate stuffed animals.  Ok, I get that some kids have a special animal that's great for comforting them, etc.  That's absolutely fine.  What I *don't* like is how many people think that they make good gifts, and that the one *they* give will be the one that becomes the treasured toy.  As a result, we have loads of useless, space-hogging stuffed ...things of all sorts cluttering up our house.  We got rid of a whole bunch at/after a yard sale last year, but the kids *still* don't play with any of the ones that are left, except for a few small ones that they chose themselves.

Just because someone gives it to you doesn't mean you have to have to keep it.

Both sets of grandparents for my brother-in-law's kid give gifts embroidered with the [unusual] child's name on them... Yep, even the stuffed animals...

Easy. Seam ripper and patience. Pull out the embroidery. Can be very soothing actually.

[alewpanda]

Also she keeps giving our kid singing stuffed animals for holidays...

Oh my goodness, how I've grown to hate stuffed animals.  Ok, I get that some kids have a special animal that's great for comforting them, etc.  That's absolutely fine.  What I *don't* like is how many people think that they make good gifts, and that the one *they* give will be the one that becomes the treasured toy.  As a result, we have loads of useless, space-hogging stuffed ...things of all sorts cluttering up our house.  We got rid of a whole bunch at/after a yard sale last year, but the kids *still* don't play with any of the ones that are left, except for a few small ones that they chose themselves.

Just because someone gives it to you doesn't mean you have to have to keep it.

Both sets of grandparents for my brother-in-law's kid give gifts embroidered with the [unusual] child's name on them... Yep, even the stuffed animals...

Easy. Seam ripper and patience. Pull out the embroidery. Can be very soothing actually.

I regularly purchase stuffed animals for my dogs from the thrift store for 50 cents a piece.  They destroy them anyway...and they are way cheaper than dog toys!   

Maybe you can find someone local in a similar situation ;)

[Prairie Stash]

DH and I cancelled cable earlier this year, both for savings and because we were never watching it.  We just complained about the commercials and wasted $5 at a time renting movies we were too lazy to Redbox or too impatient to wait for on Netflix.  We've been surprisingly happy with it.  I mean, now we're behind on Game of Thrones, and I miss Jeopardy, but otherwise we have much less time wasted watching shows we don't care about just because they're on.

My mother-in-law just bought DH a HD TV antenna for his birthday.  She actually said "I know you don't want this, but if I'm going to be coming up once a month, I need to be able to watch my football." 

Why would you spend $80 (I just looked it up) on your son's 30th birthday on a present you KNOW he doesn't want, and also not get him anything else?  He even sent out a list of things he needs (tools, new work pants, etc.) so we wouldn't get more clutter that wouldn't be used, so I know she had other options.  She does like to buy presents, it's definitely her love language, so that makes it even stranger to me.

DH waited until she was out of earshot and said "I'm kind of sad about the antenna", which made me extra sad.  Plus now he has to make the time to install it either on our roof or in our attic, neither of which tasks are appealing in the slightest.  She might not get her football this year anyway because of our sheer laziness.

So, we have neither put up this antenna nor gotten rid of it.  MIL is in town this weekend, and has generously informed us that she's giving us her recently deceased mother's TV to put in our guest room.  I think she falls asleep with the TV on at home, and also watches late night talk shows when she can't sleep, and wants those options when she comes up for a few days every month or two.  I'm not sure what she thinks she's going to be watching on said TV, though.  Netflix, maybe? 

Just a note - my MIL is a great lady and so nice, I just don't relate to a lot of the things she values that she thinks WE should think are important too.  Also she keeps giving our kid singing stuffed animals for holidays...

https://nocable.org/availability-report/zip/80524-fort-collins-co
I see you get FOX, CBS and ABC for free. I believe they show Jeopardy on ABC.

I find Over The Air (OTA) fun. To install you plug the antenna into the TV. Not exaggerating, it took me 5 minutes the first time, I just plugged it into the TV in the living room and then told the TV to scan for channels. Eventually I moved it to the attic, you can get more channels sometimes (the higher the antenna the longer range stations it can find). Remember, this tech was developed in the 50's, its about as simple as it gets.

Your MIL gave you a gift that replaces cable TV for free. She gave you a gift that enables you to still watch Jeopardy...why would you miss it when you still have it?

[iris lily]

Also she keeps giving our kid singing stuffed animals for holidays...

Oh my goodness, how I've grown to hate stuffed animals.  Ok, I get that some kids have a special animal that's great for comforting them, etc.  That's absolutely fine.  What I *don't* like is how many people think that they make good gifts, and that the one *they* give will be the one that becomes the treasured toy.  As a result, we have loads of useless, space-hogging stuffed ...things of all sorts cluttering up our house.  We got rid of a whole bunch at/after a yard sale last year, but the kids *still* don't play with any of the ones that are left, except for a few small ones that they chose themselves.

Just because someone gives it to you doesn't mean you have to have to keep it.

Both sets of grandparents for my brother-in-law's kid give gifts embroidered with the [unusual] child's name on them... Yep, even the stuffed animals...

Easy. Seam ripper and patience. Pull out the embroidery. Can be very soothing actually.

I regularly purchase stuffed animals for my dogs from the thrift store for 50 cents a piece.  They destroy them anyway...and they are way cheaper than dog toys!   

Maybe you can find someone local in a similar situation ;)

I get my big old fat bulldog his ‘wabbits from the thrift sotre. He doesnt tear them up, he sucks on them for hours, very cute it is.

[rebel_quietude]

I regularly purchase stuffed animals for my dogs from the thrift store for 50 cents a piece.  They destroy them anyway...and they are way cheaper than dog toys!   

Maybe you can find someone local in a similar situation ;)

Careful, careful please!!
Our beloved lab swallowed some yarn from a the hair of a toy and started puking up everything he ate or drank for 36 hours. $1,300 in surgery costs later, the yarn came out from his intestines. If we had left it another day before going to the vet he wouldn't have survived. Please be careful with toys and dogs!

[chaskavitch]

DH and I cancelled cable earlier this year, both for savings and because we were never watching it.  We just complained about the commercials and wasted $5 at a time renting movies we were too lazy to Redbox or too impatient to wait for on Netflix.  We've been surprisingly happy with it.  I mean, now we're behind on Game of Thrones, and I miss Jeopardy, but otherwise we have much less time wasted watching shows we don't care about just because they're on.

My mother-in-law just bought DH a HD TV antenna for his birthday.  She actually said "I know you don't want this, but if I'm going to be coming up once a month, I need to be able to watch my football." 

Why would you spend $80 (I just looked it up) on your son's 30th birthday on a present you KNOW he doesn't want, and also not get him anything else?  He even sent out a list of things he needs (tools, new work pants, etc.) so we wouldn't get more clutter that wouldn't be used, so I know she had other options.  She does like to buy presents, it's definitely her love language, so that makes it even stranger to me.

DH waited until she was out of earshot and said "I'm kind of sad about the antenna", which made me extra sad.  Plus now he has to make the time to install it either on our roof or in our attic, neither of which tasks are appealing in the slightest.  She might not get her football this year anyway because of our sheer laziness.

So, we have neither put up this antenna nor gotten rid of it.  MIL is in town this weekend, and has generously informed us that she's giving us her recently deceased mother's TV to put in our guest room.  I think she falls asleep with the TV on at home, and also watches late night talk shows when she can't sleep, and wants those options when she comes up for a few days every month or two.  I'm not sure what she thinks she's going to be watching on said TV, though.  Netflix, maybe? 

Just a note - my MIL is a great lady and so nice, I just don't relate to a lot of the things she values that she thinks WE should think are important too.  Also she keeps giving our kid singing stuffed animals for holidays...

https://nocable.org/availability-report/zip/80524-fort-collins-co
I see you get FOX, CBS and ABC for free. I believe they show Jeopardy on ABC.

I find Over The Air (OTA) fun. To install you plug the antenna into the TV. Not exaggerating, it took me 5 minutes the first time, I just plugged it into the TV in the living room and then told the TV to scan for channels. Eventually I moved it to the attic, you can get more channels sometimes (the higher the antenna the longer range stations it can find). Remember, this tech was developed in the 50's, its about as simple as it gets.

Your MIL gave you a gift that replaces cable TV for free. She gave you a gift that enables you to still watch Jeopardy...why would you miss it when you still have it?

You're right.  I was really irritated when she first gave it to us, because it felt like she only gave it to us for her own sake, and because she thought we were crazy.  And I can understand her wanting us to use the gift she gave, and therefore asking/prompting us about putting it up.  We should probably at least try it.

DH didn't want to climb up in the attic where he thought he'd have to install it, and I honestly (as much as I love Jeopardy) don't care to have TV back. 

There are plenty of mindless shows on Netflix, though, so we're not avoiding binging on shows by not having cable, we're only avoiding commercials.  And apparently the Olympics :(

[RetiredAt63]

There are plenty of mindless shows on Netflix, though, so we're not avoiding binging on shows by not having cable, we're only avoiding commercials.  And apparently the Olympics :(

I think NBC has lots of online Olympic coverage.  I am getting all mine from CBC online.

[nick663]

Olympics is also on NBC over the air broadcast that you could get with that antenna... :)

[LeRainDrop]

There are plenty of mindless shows on Netflix, though, so we're not avoiding binging on shows by not having cable, we're only avoiding commercials.  And apparently the Olympics :(

I think NBC has lots of online Olympic coverage.  I am getting all mine from CBC online.

Yup, NBC Sports is broadcasting it all.  If you have an Amazon Firestick, you can download the NBC Sports app and watch everything for free.

[penguintroopers]

My hubby and I haven't been paying for our own cell phone bills. We've had the same phones, and have just stayed on our respective parents plan. My phone is on my dad's company policy, which I don't even want to think about how much it costs. Honestly, if I tried to learn more about my dad's financial picture, he could probably fill up pages of this thread. No, today we are looking at my husband's phone, which is on his parents plan.

They pay four hundred dollars a month.

When we heard this, we had no idea how it cost so much. Granted we were looking at getting small data plans with google fi and the like, we were thinking it would be $50/mo for us both... so surely in a family of five, with some randomness and extra fun things, this would be like $200, tops, right?

Turns out some of the things they were paying for were financed phones, like when they left for vacation two years ago. Apparently my FIL went to the store before my MIL and FIL left for an international trip, because BIL (who was like 14 at the time) needed a phone in case of an emergency. When he went into the store asking for a cheap/free phone, apparently the worker interpreted it as "no money down" and gave them an iPhone 4. Somehow they still owe money on this phone, when my SIL has a paid off iPhone 7. (dunno how that math works). Anyway, they owe $300 on a basically worthless phone that's now sitting in a drawer.

Other fun things they were paying for? MIL and FIL have roadside assistance at $10/mo EACH. They have roadside assistance through their car insurance.

They get 10 GB a month for data and go over every month, and have the overage fees and extra data charges to go along with it. MIL uses up at least 50-70% of the data every month, despite the fact she only works 1 day a week and 95% of the data she uses is when she is at home and could just get on the wifi.

Their solution to this jumbo bill they finally decide to get under control? Cut my husband off.

Since we were down there in August (when all this talk about cutting him off was going on) my husband gets a look at the bill and sees the ridiculousness that they're paying for detailed above.  He details a plan to cut the bill in half, while he is still on the plan.

Taking my husband off would have saved them ~$50/mo. Hubby looking at the bill could saved them $200/mo for the last 6 months, but NOTHING has changed.

[mustachepungoeshere]

Their solution to this jumbo bill they finally decide to get under control? Cut my husband off.

You wanted them to lower their bill. They lowered their bill. They just didn't lower it in a way that best suited you.

If I was subsidising someone who volunteered such a helpful analysis of my spending, I'd cut them off in a heartbeat.

[Zamboni]

^^Old enough to be married = old enough to pay your own phone bills. I think they do get that part.

Shrug.

[Hula Hoop]

^^Old enough to be married = old enough to pay your own phone bills. I think they do get that part.

Shrug.

I agree.