Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 1585206 times)

former player

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4250 on: January 05, 2018, 02:16:42 AM »
In my circle, "Gentleman of Leisure" isn't without a self-aggrandising or derogatory tone. It has connotations of being a playboy (not used as a compliment) or being the one paid off to not partake in the family business. Again, mostly used for fun or gentle mocking.
Closely related to "remittance man": an unsatisfactory male relative paid an allowance to go live in the colonies and not come back.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4251 on: January 05, 2018, 02:25:40 AM »
In my circle, "Gentleman of Leisure" isn't without a self-aggrandising or derogatory tone. It has connotations of being a playboy (not used as a compliment) or being the one paid off to not partake in the family business. Again, mostly used for fun or gentle mocking.
Closely related to "remittance man": an unsatisfactory male relative paid an allowance to go live in the colonies and not come back.

I have not heard that one before, but think it's fascinating. Thanks!

BJacks

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4252 on: January 05, 2018, 05:59:47 AM »
I'm not English so I don't mean to speak to your country's culture. I'm not a fan of the term "lady who lunches," because I feel like it could severely diminish that lady's stature. Let's say the lady in question was an activist for underprivileged kids. If a newspaper were to interview her and address her as a "lady who lunches," her influence would likely decline. Then again perhaps I am overthinking this.

No no, I totally get that! But I just don't think anyone ever actually refers to anyone else as a lady who lunches any more. Like, ever. If they did, it would absolutely be belittling, but it's just not used, so people can use it of themselves as a joke.

Along with the gentleman of leisure was the woman of independent means.  She wasn't dependent on her husband/father/brother, she had her own money.

That's a designation I applaud! Any idea what time era that term was used? I remember reading about women legally not be allowing to inherit wealth (part of the plot of "Pride and Prejudice" revolves around this), and I'm not sure when the law was finally changed.

That is untrue. There are women of independent means even in Pride and Prejudice, even Mrs. Bennett has a not inconsiderable sum, that just  won't mean much split between five daughters. However, estates were often entailed to male heirs, leaving gentlemen who did not manage to build wealth beyond the estate no means to provide anyone except the designated heir. They were basically custodians, obligated to pass the estate through a predetermined line.

The reason the girls couldn't inherit in Pride and Prejudice was because of an entail on the property, not because they were female. Anne DeBurg was the heir to Rosings Park which was a much larger and more valuable property and no one ever questioned her right despite her being described as sickly. Usually women were given money at their marriage (Georgiana had a 30,000 pound dowrey) rather than inheriting upon death. Harder to find people back then when they moved with their husbands etc.

Pioneerw2b

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4253 on: January 05, 2018, 06:37:00 AM »
I'm not English so I don't mean to speak to your country's culture. I'm not a fan of the term "lady who lunches," because I feel like it could severely diminish that lady's stature. Let's say the lady in question was an activist for underprivileged kids. If a newspaper were to interview her and address her as a "lady who lunches," her influence would likely decline. Then again perhaps I am overthinking this.

No no, I totally get that! But I just don't think anyone ever actually refers to anyone else as a lady who lunches any more. Like, ever. If they did, it would absolutely be belittling, but it's just not used, so people can use it of themselves as a joke.

Along with the gentleman of leisure was the woman of independent means.  She wasn't dependent on her husband/father/brother, she had her own money.

That's a designation I applaud! Any idea what time era that term was used? I remember reading about women legally not be allowing to inherit wealth (part of the plot of "Pride and Prejudice" revolves around this), and I'm not sure when the law was finally changed.

That is untrue. There are women of independent means even in Pride and Prejudice, even Mrs. Bennett has a not inconsiderable sum, that just  won't mean much split between five daughters. However, estates were often entailed to male heirs, leaving gentlemen who did not manage to build wealth beyond the estate no means to provide anyone except the designated heir. They were basically custodians, obligated to pass the estate through a predetermined line.



Years ago, I watched a movie called The Buccaneers (British Drama). It shows the result of entailed estates when the heir basically has no more income. The male heir has a beautiful home and estate but cannot touch anything in it.... meaning he cannot sell furniture because it is not his.... SO in the movie, they look to American girls whose daddy's have made it big in railroads, oil, etc... and pursue them to marry so they can have their wife's money to live on..

pachnik

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4254 on: January 05, 2018, 06:46:14 AM »
In my circle, "Gentleman of Leisure" isn't without a self-aggrandising or derogatory tone. It has connotations of being a playboy (not used as a compliment) or being the one paid off to not partake in the family business. Again, mostly used for fun or gentle mocking.
Closely related to "remittance man": an unsatisfactory male relative paid an allowance to go live in the colonies and not come back.

I have not heard that one before, but think it's fascinating. Thanks!

I live in a part of the world that had its share of remittance men.  Apparently, there were a lot of them in Duncan, B.C.  This is on Vancouver Island.  There were some also in the BC Interior and in Calgary, Alberta.   

They were pensioned off by wealth family members and sent to the colonies.  From what I've read, when WW1 broke out, they returned to Britain to fight in the war.

Inaya

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4255 on: January 05, 2018, 06:57:38 AM »
I'm not English so I don't mean to speak to your country's culture. I'm not a fan of the term "lady who lunches," because I feel like it could severely diminish that lady's stature. Let's say the lady in question was an activist for underprivileged kids. If a newspaper were to interview her and address her as a "lady who lunches," her influence would likely decline. Then again perhaps I am overthinking this.

No no, I totally get that! But I just don't think anyone ever actually refers to anyone else as a lady who lunches any more. Like, ever. If they did, it would absolutely be belittling, but it's just not used, so people can use it of themselves as a joke.

Along with the gentleman of leisure was the woman of independent means.  She wasn't dependent on her husband/father/brother, she had her own money.


I may just have to put Woman of Independent Means on my business cards when I FIRE.

jinga nation

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4256 on: January 05, 2018, 07:39:05 AM »
I'm not English so I don't mean to speak to your country's culture. I'm not a fan of the term "lady who lunches," because I feel like it could severely diminish that lady's stature. Let's say the lady in question was an activist for underprivileged kids. If a newspaper were to interview her and address her as a "lady who lunches," her influence would likely decline. Then again perhaps I am overthinking this.

No no, I totally get that! But I just don't think anyone ever actually refers to anyone else as a lady who lunches any more. Like, ever. If they did, it would absolutely be belittling, but it's just not used, so people can use it of themselves as a joke.

Along with the gentleman of leisure was the woman of independent means.  She wasn't dependent on her husband/father/brother, she had her own money.

That's a designation I applaud! Any idea what time era that term was used? I remember reading about women legally not be allowing to inherit wealth (part of the plot of "Pride and Prejudice" revolves around this), and I'm not sure when the law was finally changed.

That is untrue. There are women of independent means even in Pride and Prejudice, even Mrs. Bennett has a not inconsiderable sum, that just  won't mean much split between five daughters. However, estates were often entailed to male heirs, leaving gentlemen who did not manage to build wealth beyond the estate no means to provide anyone except the designated heir. They were basically custodians, obligated to pass the estate through a predetermined line.



Years ago, I watched a movie called The Buccaneers (British Drama). It shows the result of entailed estates when the heir basically has no more income. The male heir has a beautiful home and estate but cannot touch anything in it.... meaning he cannot sell furniture because it is not his.... SO in the movie, they look to American girls whose daddy's have made it big in railroads, oil, etc... and pursue them to marry so they can have their wife's money to live on..
This is a fact. There are plenty of properties in the UK where the heirs are in investment banking, or working in the City, or in government, and see the estate as a PITA. It's a drain on the wallet to maintain, but it cannot be modified without consulting heritage architects and tons of permitting and red tape. Some get turned over to the National Trust (e.g G.B. Shaw's country home) and others are transformed into conference venue, restaurant, craft shops, open parkland, etc. open to the public at a cost (e.g Hatfield House).
Source: father's cousin used to work in a UK county government dealing with heritage buildings. Her stories were awesome. Think Midsomer Murders, without the murders, set in the London suburbs.

RWD

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4257 on: January 05, 2018, 08:23:43 AM »
Another relative complained about the cost of sending their kids to private university and how it was unfair that minorities and divorced couples were getting more financial assistance.

Neither part of this claim about "minorities" and "divorced couples" is true, and the first part of it is additionally just plain racist

Yeah that's my first impression of the comments. Also Ole Miss is a fine university, that's fine if anyone wants to send their kids to private schools as that is their right, I just find it funny when they complain as to their costs when there are fine institutions nearby that offer a similar education at a lower cost.

The relative in question doesn't live anywhere near Mississippi. But I agree, there are plenty of great public schools in their state that have the same degrees which would be much cheaper. But no, they sent all three of their kids to out-of-state universities. I'm pretty sure they pay for their kids' airfare to come back and visit too. At least one of the kids got nearly a full ride scholarship, but the other two are likely to have very poor ROIs.

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4258 on: January 05, 2018, 10:22:11 AM »
Another relative complained about the cost of sending their kids to private university and how it was unfair that minorities and divorced couples were getting more financial assistance.

Neither part of this claim about "minorities" and "divorced couples" is true, and the first part of it is additionally just plain racist (but you probably already know this.) Does your relative not understand that the income of both parents is used to calculate the estimated family contribution on financial aid forms? Even if the parents are divorced and one parent is completely estranged from the child, it is very hard to get institutions to not count both parents' incomes in financial aid calculations.

Except they are both true. FAFSA only requires income from custodial parents (ie who ever had custody or whoever you lived with for more than half the year).

Additionally some grant money is given preference to minorities. ie if two candidates apply/qualify, the minority gets it.
Has this always been true?

Back in the day, when I went to college, my parents were divorced.  I lived with mom.  Dad refused to fill out FAFSA.

They assigned an amount to him.  Which of course he didn't pay (I mean, the man was living on less than $1000 / mo of SS by then, his amount would have been ZERO, just like my mom's was ZERO.)

So I had to come up with the extra.

BDWW

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4259 on: January 05, 2018, 12:04:43 PM »
Except they are both true. FAFSA only requires income from custodial parents (ie who ever had custody or whoever you lived with for more than half the year).

Additionally some grant money is given preference to minorities. ie if two candidates apply/qualify, the minority gets it.
Has this always been true?

Back in the day, when I went to college, my parents were divorced.  I lived with mom.  Dad refused to fill out FAFSA.

They assigned an amount to him.  Which of course he didn't pay (I mean, the man was living on less than $1000 / mo of SS by then, his amount would have been ZERO, just like my mom's was ZERO.)

So I had to come up with the extra.

Well, as the other poster mentioned schools are often shady about it, to the point of even listing parental income on emancipated children. But yes, if they are divorced only the custodial parents income is supposed to apply. I suspect the schools are difficult about it to discourage people trying to game the system.

http://www.finaid.org/questions/divorce.phtml  see "Obligation to Help Pay for College"
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 12:06:59 PM by BDWW »

jinga nation

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4260 on: January 05, 2018, 12:58:29 PM »
Another relative complained about the cost of sending their kids to private university and how it was unfair that minorities and divorced couples were getting more financial assistance.

Neither part of this claim about "minorities" and "divorced couples" is true, and the first part of it is additionally just plain racist (but you probably already know this.) Does your relative not understand that the income of both parents is used to calculate the estimated family contribution on financial aid forms? Even if the parents are divorced and one parent is completely estranged from the child, it is very hard to get institutions to not count both parents' incomes in financial aid calculations.

Except they are both true. FAFSA only requires income from custodial parents (ie who ever had custody or whoever you lived with for more than half the year).

Additionally some grant money is given preference to minorities. ie if two candidates apply/qualify, the minority gets it.
Has this always been true?

Back in the day, when I went to college, my parents were divorced.  I lived with mom.  Dad refused to fill out FAFSA.

They assigned an amount to him.  Which of course he didn't pay (I mean, the man was living on less than $1000 / mo of SS by then, his amount would have been ZERO, just like my mom's was ZERO.)

So I had to come up with the extra.

How long ago was this? I filled out my own FAFSA from 1998-2001.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4261 on: January 06, 2018, 06:25:28 AM »
Are extremely consumeristic shopaholic baby boomer relatives a thing?   I have several aging baby boomer (or slightly older than baby boomer) relatives who are shopaholics and huge consumers of stuff.  They seem to have no awareness at all of the environmental and other costs of all this stuff.

 I was just visiting family for the holidays and the number of Christmas presents my kids and other kids and adults in the family got was obscene.  The shopaholic relatives are all "frugal" ie they love to buy cheap and discounted stuff and boast about the bargains they got but, even so, they must have spent hundreds on Christmas presents.  And the amount of plastic and other waste is obscene.

Each of my kids and the other kids in the family got around 4 presents from each relative - there are 4 relatives like this in the family so that was a lot of presents.  The worst thing was that each of the presents consisted of tons of tiny little losable parts which my kids are now scattering all over the house.  For example, my 3 year old nephew received, amongst other things, a huge bag of plastic dinosaurs that one relative had bought for cheap - but there must have been 30 dinosaurs in there and he doesn't even like dinosaurs that much.  And he lives with his parents in a tiny over-stuffed apartment.  His parents were aghast.

My mother, who is old and sick, stressed out about not having completed her Christmas shopping ie she had not bought presents for all the relatives and their pets.  I tried to ask everyone to limit the presents to kids only but was only partly successful.  Next time, I think I'll request only one present from each person for each kid as well.

Anyway, they all have big houses that are stuffed to the gills with stuff.  Yet they keep shopping as a hobby and constantly accumulating more.  The younger generation in my family (I'm gen X) lives in small apartments and seems a lot more conscious of consumerism and the environment.  We're all trying to limit the shopping and gift giving of the older relatives but it seems to fall on deaf ears and/is construed as "ungrateful". 

Anyone else in this situation?

Zamboni

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4262 on: January 06, 2018, 08:47:35 AM »
^Yep, it is an epidemic of affluenza.

After one particularly ridiculous incident, my solution to the little parts was to tell MIL that any toys she bought for the kids had to stay at her house. . . she didn't believe me, but my boundaries are firm. Then she complained about all of the little plastic pieces of tiny kittens and their various plastic housewares she had to pick up in her living room and that she would find all over her house. What did she think was going to happen when she rolled out the tiny plastic kitten figurine house with the associated hundreds of tiny plastic kitten purses and other items?

My solution for my own Mom was to just not mail the required paper thank you cards. I would thank her in person, of course, or call her to thank her when I received it, and so would the kids, but I would not stoop to the ridiculous follow up card. She made rude comments, dropped hints, and huffed and puffed for a few years about my refusal to mail her a follow up card, then she made snarky remarks to the kids themselves, but eventually she stopped sending gifts. She won't even send a birthday gift. Hip hip hooray! I still send her small gifts for her birthday and Christmas (mostly fancy food items I know she likes) . . . she always sends me a thank you card in the mail, which I find entertaining because it is the only personalized letter she ever sends us. Whatever, Mom, glad you feel all prim and proper.

barbaz

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4263 on: January 06, 2018, 08:53:13 AM »
presents for all the relatives and their pets.
Wait, what?

We have successfully established that my wife and I get nothing and that our children get only activities as gifts from all our relatives. But it was a long battle to get to this point.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4264 on: January 06, 2018, 09:34:32 AM »
presents for all the relatives and their pets.
Wait, what?

Yep - a couple of my childless relatives consider their dogs to be their children so they have to get "presents".  I suggested a can of dog food but was shot down. 

Quote

We have successfully established that my wife and I get nothing and that our children get only activities as gifts from all our relatives. But it was a long battle to get to this point.

I have to work on this some more with the other younger generation people in my family.  It's a huge generational divide between us Gen Xers and Millenials and the Baby Boomers.  I wonder if they didn't grow up with all this STUFF so they just don't get the down side of environmental apocalypse and little tiny kitten purses and beads all over the apartment.

kenner

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4265 on: January 06, 2018, 10:37:25 AM »
presents for all the relatives and their pets.
Wait, what?

Yep - a couple of my childless relatives consider their dogs to be their children so they have to get "presents".  I suggested a can of dog food but was shot down. 


The loudest, most obnoxious squeaky-toy I could find helped with this one for me (bonus: they're cheap because no one wants the things in their house).  For cats the equivalent seems to be plastic balls that crackle, although I don't think those are as bad unless the playing is happening in the middle of the night.

I've got pets, but I certainly don't expect anyone to send presents for them.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 10:39:10 AM by kenner »

With This Herring

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4266 on: January 06, 2018, 11:08:18 AM »
presents for all the relatives and their pets.
Wait, what?

Yep - a couple of my childless relatives consider their dogs to be their children so they have to get "presents".  I suggested a can of dog food but was shot down. 


The loudest, most obnoxious squeaky-toy I could find helped with this one for me (bonus: they're cheap because no one wants the things in their house).  For cats the equivalent seems to be plastic balls that crackle, although I don't think those are as bad unless the playing is happening in the middle of the night.

Loudest cat toy:  Ball in a round track

I love this thing.  My parents' cats usually don't touch it until there is a quiet scene on television/a movie ("And the murderer is...!"), and then it's BAT-BAT-BAT-BAT-BAT with the hugely loud ball rattling around the track.  Oh man, that has ruined so many tense movie moments.  It is great.

Pioneerw2b

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4267 on: January 06, 2018, 11:50:47 AM »
^Yep, it is an epidemic of affluenza.

After one particularly ridiculous incident, my solution to the little parts was to tell MIL that any toys she bought for the kids had to stay at her house. . . she didn't believe me, but my boundaries are firm. Then she complained about all of the little plastic pieces of tiny kittens and their various plastic housewares she had to pick up in her living room and that she would find all over her house. What did she think was going to happen when she rolled out the tiny plastic kitten figurine house with the associated hundreds of tiny plastic kitten purses and other items?

My solution for my own Mom was to just not mail the required paper thank you cards. I would thank her in person, of course, or call her to thank her when I received it, and so would the kids, but I would not stoop to the ridiculous follow up card. She made rude comments, dropped hints, and huffed and puffed for a few years about my refusal to mail her a follow up card, then she made snarky remarks to the kids themselves, but eventually she stopped sending gifts. She won't even send a birthday gift. Hip hip hooray! I still send her small gifts for her birthday and Christmas (mostly fancy food items I know she likes) . . . she always sends me a thank you card in the mail, which I find entertaining because it is the only personalized letter she ever sends us. Whatever, Mom, glad you feel all prim and proper.



Wow......I have never heard of sending thank-you cards for Christmas. The verbal thank-you is more meaningful.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4268 on: January 06, 2018, 12:46:10 PM »
I've also never heard of sending thank you cards at Christmas.  After weddings, yes, but Christmas no.  Seems a little formal for family - especially if they were there while you opened the present and said "thank you".

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4269 on: January 06, 2018, 01:22:42 PM »
I've also never heard of sending thank you cards at Christmas.  After weddings, yes, but Christmas no.  Seems a little formal for family - especially if they were there while you opened the present and said "thank you".

I've always followed the rule that if I opened a gift in front of the giver and thanked them verbally then that is sufficient.  But all other gifts get a thank you note.*

*I bend this rule a little with my closest relatives (sister, parents) when they send me silly, random gifts --- those get a phone call thank you.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4270 on: January 06, 2018, 04:21:47 PM »
My parents' cats get a present at Christmas. They get a replacement for last year's catnip banana - another identical banana that is not so slobbered on it's grey and also still smells of catnip. The old one gets thrown away. That is the maximum appropriate involvement of pets in Christmas presents.

kayvent

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4271 on: January 06, 2018, 05:46:18 PM »
Anyone else in this situation?

I have a close friend who is a shopoholic like that. "It's was at sale at cost!" I used to be a lot more frustrated in these situations. Sometimes still do. What calms my soul is to know that, at least for the people I know, they are buying the stuff with good (but ill-informed) intentions.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4272 on: January 06, 2018, 06:06:40 PM »
My MIL is visiting.  We bought her tickets.  It's a good way to ensure the guests don't overstay their welcome.  DH and I are re-landscaping the back yard and we are reusing most of the materials that are already there.  DH stepped up to the challenge and upgraded the irrigation for the cost of materials only.  We have a budget, and there is an incentive to spend less, because any amount unspent will supplement family vacation fund.  MIL, meanwhile, wants us to take her to the Grand Canyon - never mind that a layoff a year ago resulted in a sizable pay cut for me and our household now works with shrunken budget.  MIL also complains about second or third cousins who, supported by a small military pension, disability checks, and a couple of low-wage gigs, bought a Hummer and a Caddy, have a mortgage, and seem to be perpetually short on cash.

But she is determined to motivate me to spend more, and to give me more work, as will become apparent shortly.  Today, I took her to a local nursery to buy a future shade tree.  In a 5-gallon pot, because I was going to dig the hole myself and 5-gallon pot is all my shovel and I can handle.   5-gallon pot doesn't make a very big shade tree.  I looked at the 15-gallon size, and that pot size gave my shovel the shakes.  So no, 5-gallon pot it is.  MIL thought 15-gallon would actually give some shade right away.  She did have a point, but then again, she was going to supervise while I dug through the hard pan layer... 

To check out, we walked through a greenhouse full of winter color, cacti, herbs, and the like.  I stopped at the herbs to survey the collection for the future reference; backyard renovation includes installation of an an herb/vegetable garden.  And she started oohing and aahing about how cute the thyme was and how I had to buy it because we had extra pots.  I said no.

When we got home, she proudly announced to my husband that she tried to get me to buy more stuff and that I was a difficult person to shop with.  And I, once again, patiently explained how I am not good at impulse shopping and how impulse control improves the bottom line.  She really doesn't seem to connect how our habits keep us afloat through promotions and layoffs whereas her and cousins' lack of control keeps them in the poor house.  But then, she doesn't have to: she gets monthly checks and two all-expenses-paid trips to visit us every year.

RWD

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4273 on: January 06, 2018, 06:53:18 PM »
I was just visiting family for the holidays and the number of Christmas presents my kids and other kids and adults in the family got was obscene.  The shopaholic relatives are all "frugal" ie they love to buy cheap and discounted stuff and boast about the bargains they got but, even so, they must have spent hundreds on Christmas presents.

Only hundreds? At my brother-in-law's in-law's Christmas there were probably 50+ presents and lots of them expensive (multiple video cameras and such). They spent thousands on their Christmas. And that's with only one grandchild. I shudder to think how it will continue to escalate in the future.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4274 on: January 06, 2018, 07:52:21 PM »
presents for all the relatives and their pets.
Wait, what?

Yep - a couple of my childless relatives consider their dogs to be their children so they have to get "presents".  I suggested a can of dog food but was shot down. 
Raw venison shoulder bones are a canine Christmas tradition in our house.  And turkey necks on Thanksgiving.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4275 on: January 06, 2018, 08:20:41 PM »
Unsolicited gifts (non holiday) that come from people who require a thank you card drive me a little insane.

It's partially generational and partially because I believe a true gift giver gives freely with no expectation of anything in return (I believe in saying thank you for all gifts, just think it's petty and a waste of time to wait around expecting a thank you).

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4276 on: January 06, 2018, 11:20:54 PM »
I was just visiting family for the holidays and the number of Christmas presents my kids and other kids and adults in the family got was obscene.  The shopaholic relatives are all "frugal" ie they love to buy cheap and discounted stuff and boast about the bargains they got but, even so, they must have spent hundreds on Christmas presents.

Only hundreds? At my brother-in-law's in-law's Christmas there were probably 50+ presents and lots of them expensive (multiple video cameras and such). They spent thousands on their Christmas. And that's with only one grandchild. I shudder to think how it will continue to escalate in the future.

Yikes.  No my relatives are "frugal" (they are mostly retired teachers so limited money) so they just spend hundreds.  Everything was a bargain got on sale but it adds up to a lot of junk and a lot of money.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4277 on: January 07, 2018, 03:21:26 AM »
I don't have kids myself, but what I see happening to my friends (Milennials) is that their babyboomer parents are used to living in large houses with lots of space and lots of stuff and they just can't adapt to the situation their kids are living in.

Most of our parents were born in the 1950s, got married in the 1970s, started to work straight out of highschool and stayed home until marriage. While living at home they already accumulated a lot of stuff. They stuffed their childhood bedroom with large amounts of tupperware, tablecloths, bedsheets and massive amounts of crockery & moved into large, 4-bedroom homes right after marriage. My generation generally moved out aged 18, went to college, lived with roommates for a few years until eventually settling down. House prices are a lot higher than they were back then and stable jobs that allow you to get a mortgage are harder to find, plus people have student debts. It's very hard to grasp for some parents why we don't do it the "proper" way.

Most of my friends with kids live in apartments. One friend lives in a two bedroom apartment with her husband and two kids. Her parents are very upset that their grandkids have to live in a small apartment, they really don't get why my friend doesn't just buy a big home with a garden. They keep bringing over huge amounts of toys and even outdoor toys for their future home with a garden. They are also very angry when my friend sells toys they no longer want / need, 'your generation just throws out everything!'. 

Her parents are probably a bit more extreme than most, and she should have been firmer with them a long time ago, but even my own mother feels slightly uncomfortable with the way we live. And we even own an actual house, not an apartment, although only 800 square ft. She kind of consoles herself by telling everyone we're 'sort of hippies'. 

Hula Hoop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4278 on: January 07, 2018, 03:48:42 AM »
I think my own mother feels that way about how we live.  We live in another country and most people live in apartments here rather than houses.  Houses are considered undesirable here in Italy for various reasons. 

Our apartment is quite big by Italian standards but it's still an apartment with limited storage space and our kids share a room (as do all their friends with siblings).  Also, frankly, we have less money than the older generation.  Salaries are lower now, pensions non-existent and real estate costs much more.  The boomers in my family can't seem to wrap their brains around the fact that the younger generation has to live on a lot less than they did.

Sibley

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4279 on: January 07, 2018, 11:23:22 AM »
I've also seen Boomer parents who understand the differences in some aspects, but not all. IE, student loans = no house, but they can't do the connections for no house = limited space = less stuff. End result is frustration all around. And then they get offended because stuff isn't wanted.

MishMash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4280 on: January 08, 2018, 08:30:51 AM »
My leech of a FIL moved in with us in August.  He has near six figures in debt due to spending issues, and his trophy wife divorced him and took him for A LOT of money in 2016, racked up close to six figures in lawyers bills that he had to pay for her.  He is in a hair on fire debt emergency and was living in a hotel room so we moved him in to try and clean up the mess, get his health back together and teach him that he's not going to be making 300k a year anymore.

It's been a rough road but I thought we were turning a corner, he's been keeping the spending more in check than he was (still a ways to go but better), he is waiting on a check to come in to pay off one of his credit cards, we got the MRI done and are awaiting the results.  Sounds hopeful right?

Nope.

DH gets a text from the ex wife saying, you need to set up your fathers account to pay me child support, it was due on the 1st for 575.  Now how old is this child one may ask?  DH's brother is TWENTY.  The divorce decree stipulated that child support stopped at 18.  He's been paying child support for an adult child for 2 years.  His brother didn't even live at home in high school, he lived at a boarding school.  DH told trophy wife he doesn't have the cash for it and she FLIPPED out and called FIL to berate him.  He just listened and didn't have the balls to tell her he is not going to be paying 30% of his monthly income to her for an adult child so now I am going to have to do it (DH is having flashbacks to his own divorce so doesn't want to deal). 

This woman took him for 800k almost half of that was in a retirement account that was from before their marriage but FIL couldn't provide 15 years of records that showed no co mingling since the company only maintains 10 years of records so she got half.  She also forced him at age 64 to purchase a 1.5 MILLION dollar house, on an interest only mortgage because "it was better for the boys school" they only had 2 years left in their perspective schools (FIL may be the laziest most spineless person I've ever met).  He then lost his job, and blew through savings holding onto the house.  After two years when it became clear no one would employ him at his age, they sold the house.  They moved into the hotel and she served him with divorce paperwork a week later and he was blindsided. 

All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.


Sibley

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4281 on: January 08, 2018, 08:53:10 AM »
My leech of a FIL moved in with us in August.  He has near six figures in debt due to spending issues, and his trophy wife divorced him and took him for A LOT of money in 2016, racked up close to six figures in lawyers bills that he had to pay for her.  He is in a hair on fire debt emergency and was living in a hotel room so we moved him in to try and clean up the mess, get his health back together and teach him that he's not going to be making 300k a year anymore.

It's been a rough road but I thought we were turning a corner, he's been keeping the spending more in check than he was (still a ways to go but better), he is waiting on a check to come in to pay off one of his credit cards, we got the MRI done and are awaiting the results.  Sounds hopeful right?

Nope.

DH gets a text from the ex wife saying, you need to set up your fathers account to pay me child support, it was due on the 1st for 575.  Now how old is this child one may ask?  DH's brother is TWENTY.  The divorce decree stipulated that child support stopped at 18.  He's been paying child support for an adult child for 2 years.  His brother didn't even live at home in high school, he lived at a boarding school.  DH told trophy wife he doesn't have the cash for it and she FLIPPED out and called FIL to berate him.  He just listened and didn't have the balls to tell her he is not going to be paying 30% of his monthly income to her for an adult child so now I am going to have to do it (DH is having flashbacks to his own divorce so doesn't want to deal). 

This woman took him for 800k almost half of that was in a retirement account that was from before their marriage but FIL couldn't provide 15 years of records that showed no co mingling since the company only maintains 10 years of records so she got half.  She also forced him at age 64 to purchase a 1.5 MILLION dollar house, on an interest only mortgage because "it was better for the boys school" they only had 2 years left in their perspective schools (FIL may be the laziest most spineless person I've ever met).  He then lost his job, and blew through savings holding onto the house.  After two years when it became clear no one would employ him at his age, they sold the house.  They moved into the hotel and she served him with divorce paperwork a week later and he was blindsided. 

All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.

Sounds like your FIL should consider filing for bankruptcy. Really. Stop paying his debts with your money too.

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4282 on: January 08, 2018, 11:41:26 AM »
I don't have kids myself, but what I see happening to my friends (Milennials) is that their babyboomer parents are used to living in large houses with lots of space and lots of stuff and they just can't adapt to the situation their kids are living in.

Most of our parents were born in the 1950s, got married in the 1970s, started to work straight out of highschool and stayed home until marriage. While living at home they already accumulated a lot of stuff. They stuffed their childhood bedroom with large amounts of tupperware, tablecloths, bedsheets and massive amounts of crockery & moved into large, 4-bedroom homes right after marriage. My generation generally moved out aged 18, went to college, lived with roommates for a few years until eventually settling down. House prices are a lot higher than they were back then and stable jobs that allow you to get a mortgage are harder to find, plus people have student debts. It's very hard to grasp for some parents why we don't do it the "proper" way.

Most of my friends with kids live in apartments. One friend lives in a two bedroom apartment with her husband and two kids. Her parents are very upset that their grandkids have to live in a small apartment, they really don't get why my friend doesn't just buy a big home with a garden. They keep bringing over huge amounts of toys and even outdoor toys for their future home with a garden. They are also very angry when my friend sells toys they no longer want / need, 'your generation just throws out everything!'. 

Her parents are probably a bit more extreme than most, and she should have been firmer with them a long time ago, but even my own mother feels slightly uncomfortable with the way we live. And we even own an actual house, not an apartment, although only 800 square ft. She kind of consoles herself by telling everyone we're 'sort of hippies'.
This is all pretty fascinating.  Just goes to show you needed a middle ground (X-er) or more movement.

I wonder how much of this depends on if you are rural or urban or suburban.  Middle class or poor or??

I'm an X-er. My older siblings (7 of them) are boomers.  We were rural.  They all graduated from HS and got jobs, but they most certainly did not live at home until they got married.  They did have "hope chests" with a certain amount of towels, dishware, pots and pans.  I'd estimate that my siblings worked FT and lived at home anywhere from 0 to 3 years.  Only one one sib lived at home until she got married.  The others left reasonably soon and rented apartments.  A few got degrees (eventually) by going to school at night.  No buying a 4BR house right off the bat.  Many of them rented first, when they did buy it was a smaller 3 BR house or more often a mobile home on a piece of land.  Mortgage rates were super high back then.  Double digits.

In any event, I didn't buy a house until my mid-30s.  I wonder if the boomer/ millennial parent/child thing depends on location and income?

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4283 on: January 08, 2018, 12:16:13 PM »
I don't have kids myself, but what I see happening to my friends (Milennials) is that their babyboomer parents are used to living in large houses with lots of space and lots of stuff and they just can't adapt to the situation their kids are living in.

Most of our parents were born in the 1950s, got married in the 1970s, started to work straight out of highschool and stayed home until marriage. While living at home they already accumulated a lot of stuff. They stuffed their childhood bedroom with large amounts of tupperware, tablecloths, bedsheets and massive amounts of crockery & moved into large, 4-bedroom homes right after marriage. My generation generally moved out aged 18, went to college, lived with roommates for a few years until eventually settling down. House prices are a lot higher than they were back then and stable jobs that allow you to get a mortgage are harder to find, plus people have student debts. It's very hard to grasp for some parents why we don't do it the "proper" way.

Most of my friends with kids live in apartments. One friend lives in a two bedroom apartment with her husband and two kids. Her parents are very upset that their grandkids have to live in a small apartment, they really don't get why my friend doesn't just buy a big home with a garden. They keep bringing over huge amounts of toys and even outdoor toys for their future home with a garden. They are also very angry when my friend sells toys they no longer want / need, 'your generation just throws out everything!'. 

Her parents are probably a bit more extreme than most, and she should have been firmer with them a long time ago, but even my own mother feels slightly uncomfortable with the way we live. And we even own an actual house, not an apartment, although only 800 square ft. She kind of consoles herself by telling everyone we're 'sort of hippies'.
This is all pretty fascinating.  Just goes to show you needed a middle ground (X-er) or more movement.

I wonder how much of this depends on if you are rural or urban or suburban.  Middle class or poor or??

I'm an X-er. My older siblings (7 of them) are boomers.  We were rural.  They all graduated from HS and got jobs, but they most certainly did not live at home until they got married.  They did have "hope chests" with a certain amount of towels, dishware, pots and pans.  I'd estimate that my siblings worked FT and lived at home anywhere from 0 to 3 years.  Only one one sib lived at home until she got married.  The others left reasonably soon and rented apartments.  A few got degrees (eventually) by going to school at night.  No buying a 4BR house right off the bat.  Many of them rented first, when they did buy it was a smaller 3 BR house or more often a mobile home on a piece of land.  Mortgage rates were super high back then.  Double digits.

In any event, I didn't buy a house until my mid-30s.  I wonder if the boomer/ millennial parent/child thing depends on location and income?

I'm sure it's different in different environments. Lots of things were happening in the 60s and 70s but it took some time before those developments trickled down to where we lived. I'm pretty sure my parents and in-laws are from a fairly "backwards" area. They are probably the age of your oldest siblings (considering your username) and they grew up in rural, working class, strongly catholic environments. My parents married aged 20. I'm sure religion had something to do with everyone staying home until marriage. Moving out for a woman was improper and for a man it wasn't practical because he was supposed to save up to buy a house. For young women, everything revolved around getting married or finding someone to marry. By the time I grew up in the same town in the 90s, things were different, but it's still a relatively conservative place. Me and my friends all moved away as soon as we could and I find it increasingly hard to connect to the people who stayed there, when I meet them when I'm back in my hometown.

Linda_Norway

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4284 on: January 09, 2018, 04:50:48 AM »
<...>
All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.

Great that you are being his voice in this. Some people are just not strong enough to say no to those who request their money and they need help.
Also good to set limits for what he can do. You should not be sponsoring her by supporting him.

penguintroopers

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4285 on: January 09, 2018, 08:48:21 AM »
Got a text from my brother today. He's trying out a meal delivery service, and needed my email to send me a referral code. I look up the meal plan, and it is $10/person, for just dinner! In comparison, we spend about $10/day for the two of us.

His reasoning? $25 off for two weeks is good!

(For fun, I did the math on the cost if I did it with the promo: 2 people * 3 recipes * $10 = $60, and taking the $40 promo off its $20. For 6 people's worth of servings, it would make dinner at $3.33/plate, which would fall in line with our current spending. BUT considering I could only do this once, I think I'll just pass and just continue to not miss something I never had. Also, I would feel guilt about the packaging and waste that goes into those boxes, particularly those freezer bag things.)

economista

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4286 on: January 09, 2018, 09:04:02 AM »
I'm sure it's different in different environments. Lots of things were happening in the 60s and 70s but it took some time before those developments trickled down to where we lived. I'm pretty sure my parents and in-laws are from a fairly "backwards" area. They are probably the age of your oldest siblings (considering your username) and they grew up in rural, working class, strongly catholic environments. My parents married aged 20. I'm sure religion had something to do with everyone staying home until marriage. Moving out for a woman was improper and for a man it wasn't practical because he was supposed to save up to buy a house. For young women, everything revolved around getting married or finding someone to marry. By the time I grew up in the same town in the 90s, things were different, but it's still a relatively conservative place. Me and my friends all moved away as soon as we could and I find it increasingly hard to connect to the people who stayed there, when I meet them when I'm back in my hometown.

This still happens today in rural, backwards areas.  My family is from a rural area and we are catholic.  Women live at home until they get married (usually between 18-22).  I was the first person in my family to graduate from college.  When I was a freshman in college I opted to live in an apartment instead of at home or in the dorms.  This immediately started a huge family fight and my uncle tried to say I was no longer welcome in his house and I wasn't allowed to see my cousins, as I was obviously a bad influence.  Girls were supposed to live at home until they were married, and an unmarried girl can't possibly be doing good things if she is living outside of her parents house.  At 25 I bought a house all on my own and got engaged to my DH, who promptly moved in with me.  From that point forward I really wasn't allowed in his house anymore.  I didn't quit my job when we got married so that is another strike against me, and we've been married for 4 months now and I haven't made any announcements about a baby coming, so pretty soon I'll be able to add another line item about how terrible of an example I am setting for my younger cousins.   

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4287 on: January 09, 2018, 09:08:50 AM »
I read you history there and thought - ahh, yes - the 60s or the 70s. Nope - that's recent. Good luck, you sound like you're doing great.

I find that DW and I are intolerant of intolerant people like your uncle. We have them in our family too.

MishMash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4288 on: January 09, 2018, 09:19:28 AM »
My leech of a FIL moved in with us in August.  He has near six figures in debt due to spending issues, and his trophy wife divorced him and took him for A LOT of money in 2016, racked up close to six figures in lawyers bills that he had to pay for her.  He is in a hair on fire debt emergency and was living in a hotel room so we moved him in to try and clean up the mess, get his health back together and teach him that he's not going to be making 300k a year anymore.

It's been a rough road but I thought we were turning a corner, he's been keeping the spending more in check than he was (still a ways to go but better), he is waiting on a check to come in to pay off one of his credit cards, we got the MRI done and are awaiting the results.  Sounds hopeful right?

Nope.

DH gets a text from the ex wife saying, you need to set up your fathers account to pay me child support, it was due on the 1st for 575.  Now how old is this child one may ask?  DH's brother is TWENTY.  The divorce decree stipulated that child support stopped at 18.  He's been paying child support for an adult child for 2 years.  His brother didn't even live at home in high school, he lived at a boarding school.  DH told trophy wife he doesn't have the cash for it and she FLIPPED out and called FIL to berate him.  He just listened and didn't have the balls to tell her he is not going to be paying 30% of his monthly income to her for an adult child so now I am going to have to do it (DH is having flashbacks to his own divorce so doesn't want to deal). 

This woman took him for 800k almost half of that was in a retirement account that was from before their marriage but FIL couldn't provide 15 years of records that showed no co mingling since the company only maintains 10 years of records so she got half.  She also forced him at age 64 to purchase a 1.5 MILLION dollar house, on an interest only mortgage because "it was better for the boys school" they only had 2 years left in their perspective schools (FIL may be the laziest most spineless person I've ever met).  He then lost his job, and blew through savings holding onto the house.  After two years when it became clear no one would employ him at his age, they sold the house.  They moved into the hotel and she served him with divorce paperwork a week later and he was blindsided. 

All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.

Sounds like your FIL should consider filing for bankruptcy. Really. Stop paying his debts with your money too.

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

vivophoenix

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4289 on: January 09, 2018, 09:34:42 AM »
My leech of a FIL moved in with us in August.  He has near six figures in debt due to spending issues, and his trophy wife divorced him and took him for A LOT of money in 2016, racked up close to six figures in lawyers bills that he had to pay for her.  He is in a hair on fire debt emergency and was living in a hotel room so we moved him in to try and clean up the mess, get his health back together and teach him that he's not going to be making 300k a year anymore.

It's been a rough road but I thought we were turning a corner, he's been keeping the spending more in check than he was (still a ways to go but better), he is waiting on a check to come in to pay off one of his credit cards, we got the MRI done and are awaiting the results.  Sounds hopeful right?

Nope.

DH gets a text from the ex wife saying, you need to set up your fathers account to pay me child support, it was due on the 1st for 575.  Now how old is this child one may ask?  DH's brother is TWENTY.  The divorce decree stipulated that child support stopped at 18.  He's been paying child support for an adult child for 2 years.  His brother didn't even live at home in high school, he lived at a boarding school.  DH told trophy wife he doesn't have the cash for it and she FLIPPED out and called FIL to berate him.  He just listened and didn't have the balls to tell her he is not going to be paying 30% of his monthly income to her for an adult child so now I am going to have to do it (DH is having flashbacks to his own divorce so doesn't want to deal). 

This woman took him for 800k almost half of that was in a retirement account that was from before their marriage but FIL couldn't provide 15 years of records that showed no co mingling since the company only maintains 10 years of records so she got half.  She also forced him at age 64 to purchase a 1.5 MILLION dollar house, on an interest only mortgage because "it was better for the boys school" they only had 2 years left in their perspective schools (FIL may be the laziest most spineless person I've ever met).  He then lost his job, and blew through savings holding onto the house.  After two years when it became clear no one would employ him at his age, they sold the house.  They moved into the hotel and she served him with divorce paperwork a week later and he was blindsided. 

All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.

Sounds like your FIL should consider filing for bankruptcy. Really. Stop paying his debts with your money too.

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

i mean of course, he doesn't want things handed to him, such as your money, home or food.

tell him to stay strong in his convictions of independence!

MishMash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4290 on: January 09, 2018, 09:43:41 AM »
My leech of a FIL moved in with us in August.  He has near six figures in debt due to spending issues, and his trophy wife divorced him and took him for A LOT of money in 2016, racked up close to six figures in lawyers bills that he had to pay for her.  He is in a hair on fire debt emergency and was living in a hotel room so we moved him in to try and clean up the mess, get his health back together and teach him that he's not going to be making 300k a year anymore.

It's been a rough road but I thought we were turning a corner, he's been keeping the spending more in check than he was (still a ways to go but better), he is waiting on a check to come in to pay off one of his credit cards, we got the MRI done and are awaiting the results.  Sounds hopeful right?

Nope.

DH gets a text from the ex wife saying, you need to set up your fathers account to pay me child support, it was due on the 1st for 575.  Now how old is this child one may ask?  DH's brother is TWENTY.  The divorce decree stipulated that child support stopped at 18.  He's been paying child support for an adult child for 2 years.  His brother didn't even live at home in high school, he lived at a boarding school.  DH told trophy wife he doesn't have the cash for it and she FLIPPED out and called FIL to berate him.  He just listened and didn't have the balls to tell her he is not going to be paying 30% of his monthly income to her for an adult child so now I am going to have to do it (DH is having flashbacks to his own divorce so doesn't want to deal). 

This woman took him for 800k almost half of that was in a retirement account that was from before their marriage but FIL couldn't provide 15 years of records that showed no co mingling since the company only maintains 10 years of records so she got half.  She also forced him at age 64 to purchase a 1.5 MILLION dollar house, on an interest only mortgage because "it was better for the boys school" they only had 2 years left in their perspective schools (FIL may be the laziest most spineless person I've ever met).  He then lost his job, and blew through savings holding onto the house.  After two years when it became clear no one would employ him at his age, they sold the house.  They moved into the hotel and she served him with divorce paperwork a week later and he was blindsided. 

All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.

Sounds like your FIL should consider filing for bankruptcy. Really. Stop paying his debts with your money too.

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

i mean of course, he doesn't want things handed to him, such as your money, home or food.

tell him to stay strong in his convictions of independence!

Yup, that's pretty much how DH and I feel.  He's fine so long as I buy his beer, and feed him (PS he's too lazy to even microwave leftovers, and NO I don't do this for him) and harp on him about his bills. But heaven forbid his ex states she wants something...he'll bend over backwards for that one since he's a "man of his word".  Minus the rent he's supposed to pay us and doesn't. 

ysette9

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4291 on: January 09, 2018, 09:54:53 AM »

This still happens today in rural, backwards areas.  My family is from a rural area and we are catholic.  Women live at home until they get married (usually between 18-22).  I was the first person in my family to graduate from college.  When I was a freshman in college I opted to live in an apartment instead of at home or in the dorms.  This immediately started a huge family fight and my uncle tried to say I was no longer welcome in his house and I wasn't allowed to see my cousins, as I was obviously a bad influence.  Girls were supposed to live at home until they were married, and an unmarried girl can't possibly be doing good things if she is living outside of her parents house.  At 25 I bought a house all on my own and got engaged to my DH, who promptly moved in with me.  From that point forward I really wasn't allowed in his house anymore.  I didn't quit my job when we got married so that is another strike against me, and we've been married for 4 months now and I haven't made any announcements about a baby coming, so pretty soon I'll be able to add another line item about how terrible of an example I am setting for my younger cousins.   

In my view you are being an excellent example for your younger cousins! Good job.

economista

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4292 on: January 09, 2018, 10:08:49 AM »

This still happens today in rural, backwards areas.  My family is from a rural area and we are catholic.  Women live at home until they get married (usually between 18-22).  I was the first person in my family to graduate from college.  When I was a freshman in college I opted to live in an apartment instead of at home or in the dorms.  This immediately started a huge family fight and my uncle tried to say I was no longer welcome in his house and I wasn't allowed to see my cousins, as I was obviously a bad influence.  Girls were supposed to live at home until they were married, and an unmarried girl can't possibly be doing good things if she is living outside of her parents house.  At 25 I bought a house all on my own and got engaged to my DH, who promptly moved in with me.  From that point forward I really wasn't allowed in his house anymore.  I didn't quit my job when we got married so that is another strike against me, and we've been married for 4 months now and I haven't made any announcements about a baby coming, so pretty soon I'll be able to add another line item about how terrible of an example I am setting for my younger cousins.   

In my view you are being an excellent example for your younger cousins! Good job.

Thank You! :)

saguaro

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4293 on: January 09, 2018, 10:15:54 AM »
In any event, I didn't buy a house until my mid-30s.  I wonder if the boomer/ millennial parent/child thing depends on location and income?

Boomer here who did not buy a house until mid-30s, DH was 40, both of us with Silent Generation parents.

We lived in 3 apartments over 12 years before making the homeownership jump.  We are in a large Midwestern metro area.   Prices were a bit too steep for us to get into homeownership when we were first married, plus both of us were recent college graduates just starting out in our careers.  So it wasn't just the money, it was also the fact that we didn't know if we would necessary stay in the area.  Renting was not just the more affordable option (and allowing us to save more) but it also would allow us to more easily relocate to be closer to a job, which incidentally we ended up doing.

But we couldn't make our Silent Generation parents understand that.   Both my and DH's parents wrung their hands over "how we were throwing away our money", or "we need home equity" or "if we wait, we will be priced out of the market" among other worries.    My parents moved into a house immediately upon marriage, DH's parents got into their own home after FIL got out of the military, just five years after their marriage.  So I get both of them were homeowners earlier than us and couldn't understand what we were waiting for.

And then when we did buy a home, it was a newly built townhome that we choose as the best option for us.  Then came the statements that we "weren't in a real house", that it was  "only a condo" and when will we move into "a real house" so we can do right, proper homeowner things like mowing our own lawn and shoveling snow*.   Because we still weren't doing what they did. 

We could have moved into a larger home eventually, but in the end determined that our first home was just fine for us and we are still there.  In fact, I think it was a huge factor in us having the savings we have now. 

* ETA: we do actually shovel snow, the snow removal folks can't shovel our deck.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 10:21:54 AM by saguaro »

Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4294 on: January 09, 2018, 10:17:32 AM »
My leech of a FIL moved in with us in August.  He has near six figures in debt due to spending issues, and his trophy wife divorced him and took him for A LOT of money in 2016, racked up close to six figures in lawyers bills that he had to pay for her.  He is in a hair on fire debt emergency and was living in a hotel room so we moved him in to try and clean up the mess, get his health back together and teach him that he's not going to be making 300k a year anymore.

It's been a rough road but I thought we were turning a corner, he's been keeping the spending more in check than he was (still a ways to go but better), he is waiting on a check to come in to pay off one of his credit cards, we got the MRI done and are awaiting the results.  Sounds hopeful right?

Nope.

DH gets a text from the ex wife saying, you need to set up your fathers account to pay me child support, it was due on the 1st for 575.  Now how old is this child one may ask?  DH's brother is TWENTY.  The divorce decree stipulated that child support stopped at 18.  He's been paying child support for an adult child for 2 years.  His brother didn't even live at home in high school, he lived at a boarding school.  DH told trophy wife he doesn't have the cash for it and she FLIPPED out and called FIL to berate him.  He just listened and didn't have the balls to tell her he is not going to be paying 30% of his monthly income to her for an adult child so now I am going to have to do it (DH is having flashbacks to his own divorce so doesn't want to deal). 

This woman took him for 800k almost half of that was in a retirement account that was from before their marriage but FIL couldn't provide 15 years of records that showed no co mingling since the company only maintains 10 years of records so she got half.  She also forced him at age 64 to purchase a 1.5 MILLION dollar house, on an interest only mortgage because "it was better for the boys school" they only had 2 years left in their perspective schools (FIL may be the laziest most spineless person I've ever met).  He then lost his job, and blew through savings holding onto the house.  After two years when it became clear no one would employ him at his age, they sold the house.  They moved into the hotel and she served him with divorce paperwork a week later and he was blindsided. 

All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.

Sounds like your FIL should consider filing for bankruptcy. Really. Stop paying his debts with your money too.

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

i mean of course, he doesn't want things handed to him, such as your money, home or food.

tell him to stay strong in his convictions of independence!

Yup, that's pretty much how DH and I feel.  He's fine so long as I buy his beer, and feed him (PS he's too lazy to even microwave leftovers, and NO I don't do this for him) and harp on him about his bills. But heaven forbid his ex states she wants something...he'll bend over backwards for that one since he's a "man of his word".  Minus the rent he's supposed to pay us and doesn't.

You need to figure things out with your husband with what to do. This kind of thing will destroy a marriage if it goes long enough.

gaja

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4295 on: January 09, 2018, 11:09:27 AM »
Got a text from my brother today. He's trying out a meal delivery service, and needed my email to send me a referral code. I look up the meal plan, and it is $10/person, for just dinner! In comparison, we spend about $10/day for the two of us.

His reasoning? $25 off for two weeks is good!

(For fun, I did the math on the cost if I did it with the promo: 2 people * 3 recipes * $10 = $60, and taking the $40 promo off its $20. For 6 people's worth of servings, it would make dinner at $3.33/plate, which would fall in line with our current spending. BUT considering I could only do this once, I think I'll just pass and just continue to not miss something I never had. Also, I would feel guilt about the packaging and waste that goes into those boxes, particularly those freezer bag things.)

I've never tried any meal deliveries, but have heard from other people that the portions often are so large that you get two dinners (or dinner+lunch) out of one. If that is the case here, it might be a good deal for the promotion period.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4296 on: January 09, 2018, 02:46:29 PM »

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

So he thinks he's a man of his word and doesn't want things handed to them, and yet he expects you to take care of his problems? Yeah I wouldn't tolerate that shit in my house.

MrMoogle

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4297 on: January 09, 2018, 02:58:54 PM »
6 years ago, my grandfather passed away.  A month or so after, my grandmother got a phone call from her niece.  She had just invested ~$50k into an app and thought my grandmother should get in too.  It's the chance of a lifetime.  My grandfather had handled all their financials, so my dad and I were digging into everything to simplify her life (it was a mess, he still had paper stocks, some of which were companies that had been bought and sold multiple times since they were called what they were, they had a dozen savings accounts, a dozen brokerage accounts).  Luckily my dad talked her out of it, basically pointing out that only like 5% of new businesses last a year.  She also agreed she shouldn't make any big financial decisions right after my grandfather's death.

A few weeks later, I saw her and we talked about it.  It sounded like the app was supposed to be a medical app that allowed you to view X-rays and other scans.  One of her nieces is a doctor, so she would likely know if this is something that's in demand or not, so it seemed like it could have potential.  Then I asked about the financials.  "Well we'd make back our investments quickly, since the app is going for $1000, and all doctors are going to need this."  That's when I backed my dad's statement, that this probably wasn't an investment for her.  Can you imagine anyone paying $1000 for any app?  That's crazy.  She was disappointed, she still wanted to invest.

3 years ago, when I saw GM, she brought it back up, saying how well it was doing and how everyone was using it.  She was disappointed that she hadn't gotten in when she could have.  So I asked how much her nieces had made, to which she did not have an answer, but was confident it was lots of money.

I saw GM last weekend, and she brought it up again.  This time to express her brilliance of how she declined to invest in the company.  The company is dying, and her nieces never got a penny back.  And the doctor niece had spent a lot of effort marketing the product.  She saw through the company to what it really was and was really disappointed her nieces didn't listen to her when they invested.  She tried to save them so much money.

I had nothing I could say.

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4298 on: January 09, 2018, 03:07:54 PM »
I'm sure it's different in different environments. Lots of things were happening in the 60s and 70s but it took some time before those developments trickled down to where we lived. I'm pretty sure my parents and in-laws are from a fairly "backwards" area. They are probably the age of your oldest siblings (considering your username) and they grew up in rural, working class, strongly catholic environments. My parents married aged 20. I'm sure religion had something to do with everyone staying home until marriage. Moving out for a woman was improper and for a man it wasn't practical because he was supposed to save up to buy a house. For young women, everything revolved around getting married or finding someone to marry. By the time I grew up in the same town in the 90s, things were different, but it's still a relatively conservative place. Me and my friends all moved away as soon as we could and I find it increasingly hard to connect to the people who stayed there, when I meet them when I'm back in my hometown.

This still happens today in rural, backwards areas.  My family is from a rural area and we are catholic.  Women live at home until they get married (usually between 18-22).  I was the first person in my family to graduate from college.  When I was a freshman in college I opted to live in an apartment instead of at home or in the dorms.  This immediately started a huge family fight and my uncle tried to say I was no longer welcome in his house and I wasn't allowed to see my cousins, as I was obviously a bad influence.  Girls were supposed to live at home until they were married, and an unmarried girl can't possibly be doing good things if she is living outside of her parents house.  At 25 I bought a house all on my own and got engaged to my DH, who promptly moved in with me.  From that point forward I really wasn't allowed in his house anymore.  I didn't quit my job when we got married so that is another strike against me, and we've been married for 4 months now and I haven't made any announcements about a baby coming, so pretty soon I'll be able to add another line item about how terrible of an example I am setting for my younger cousins.   

Quote
I'm sure it's different in different environments. Lots of things were happening in the 60s and 70s but it took some time before those developments trickled down to where we lived. I'm pretty sure my parents and in-laws are from a fairly "backwards" area. They are probably the age of your oldest siblings (considering your username) and they grew up in rural, working class, strongly catholic environments. My parents married aged 20. I'm sure religion had something to do with everyone staying home until marriage. Moving out for a woman was improper and for a man it wasn't practical because he was supposed to save up to buy a house. For young women, everything revolved around getting married or finding someone to marry. By the time I grew up in the same town in the 90s, things were different, but it's still a relatively conservative place. Me and my friends all moved away as soon as we could and I find it increasingly hard to connect to the people who stayed there, when I meet them when I'm back in my hometown.

Yep, rural and Catholic.  My eldest siblings were born in the early 1950s.

Even when I was turning 16 in the 1980s, my dad told me I should get married and have "an easy life", which apparently he told all my older sisters too.  And nobody listened.

I was the first in my immediate family to go to college right after HS.  But the whole family was trending that way.  A couple of older cousins were nurses (RNs and LPNs).  The male versions went into the military.  My year we all went to college (4 cousins the same age).  By the time you roll down to the youngest cousins, 6-10 years younger than me, you've got two women with PhDs - in astro-physics and micro-biology.

Our rural Catholic area seems to be changing!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4299 on: January 09, 2018, 06:45:37 PM »

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

So he thinks he's a man of his word and doesn't want things handed to them, and yet he expects you to take care of his problems? Yeah I wouldn't tolerate that shit in my house.

If he's a "man of his word" then he ought to have paid his bills already. If he's "independent" and "doesn't want things handed to him" then he shouldn't be mooching off you like a hungry infant that won't let go of the nipple. Furthermore, if he's "responsible" he shouldn't have gotten up to his eyeballs in debt to begin with. The only thing he's "under attack" from is his grandiose self-image, which bears no resemblance to reality that I can see.

There are two kinds of people in the entitlement class: the ones who sponge off the public systems funded by the taxpayer, and the "proud, fiercely independent" ones who are too good to lower themselves to seek or accept any form of public aid, and who therefore sponge off their families and friends. The latter type are the ones who destroy entire families. Nobody ever put their brother, sister, parent, or child in debt by applying for a public program, declaring bankruptcy, or cashing a disability check.

People like your FIL are more than willing to drive your household into the ground by taking from you in order to give to others and to fill the gap between their consumption and their means. He would rather spend through your savings, ruin your cash flow, and drive you and his own son-- into bankruptcy than declare it himself, simply because protecting his precious ego is that much more important. That's why he's willing to let you liquidate assets to get his debts current. It's also why he's unwilling to say "no" to the gold digging. In his mind, he's committed to the notion that it's OK to take from you to give to somebody else.

The key difference between someone who declares bankruptcy, or someone who makes use of social programs, and your father is this: when someone makes use of a social program, a food bank, a charity, or bankruptcy proceedings the hit is spread among hundreds or even thousands of people and household. What your FIL is doing is seeing to it that the hit is absorbed by just one household: yours! Even if he made no further requests on your resources, it will take months or maybe even years to put your family finances back where they used to be.