Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 3492585 times)

With This Herring

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4250 on: January 06, 2018, 11:08:18 AM »
presents for all the relatives and their pets.
Wait, what?

Yep - a couple of my childless relatives consider their dogs to be their children so they have to get "presents".  I suggested a can of dog food but was shot down. 


The loudest, most obnoxious squeaky-toy I could find helped with this one for me (bonus: they're cheap because no one wants the things in their house).  For cats the equivalent seems to be plastic balls that crackle, although I don't think those are as bad unless the playing is happening in the middle of the night.

Loudest cat toy:  Ball in a round track

I love this thing.  My parents' cats usually don't touch it until there is a quiet scene on television/a movie ("And the murderer is...!"), and then it's BAT-BAT-BAT-BAT-BAT with the hugely loud ball rattling around the track.  Oh man, that has ruined so many tense movie moments.  It is great.

Pioneerw2b

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4251 on: January 06, 2018, 11:50:47 AM »
^Yep, it is an epidemic of affluenza.

After one particularly ridiculous incident, my solution to the little parts was to tell MIL that any toys she bought for the kids had to stay at her house. . . she didn't believe me, but my boundaries are firm. Then she complained about all of the little plastic pieces of tiny kittens and their various plastic housewares she had to pick up in her living room and that she would find all over her house. What did she think was going to happen when she rolled out the tiny plastic kitten figurine house with the associated hundreds of tiny plastic kitten purses and other items?

My solution for my own Mom was to just not mail the required paper thank you cards. I would thank her in person, of course, or call her to thank her when I received it, and so would the kids, but I would not stoop to the ridiculous follow up card. She made rude comments, dropped hints, and huffed and puffed for a few years about my refusal to mail her a follow up card, then she made snarky remarks to the kids themselves, but eventually she stopped sending gifts. She won't even send a birthday gift. Hip hip hooray! I still send her small gifts for her birthday and Christmas (mostly fancy food items I know she likes) . . . she always sends me a thank you card in the mail, which I find entertaining because it is the only personalized letter she ever sends us. Whatever, Mom, glad you feel all prim and proper.



Wow......I have never heard of sending thank-you cards for Christmas. The verbal thank-you is more meaningful.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4252 on: January 06, 2018, 12:46:10 PM »
I've also never heard of sending thank you cards at Christmas.  After weddings, yes, but Christmas no.  Seems a little formal for family - especially if they were there while you opened the present and said "thank you".

eliza

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4253 on: January 06, 2018, 01:22:42 PM »
I've also never heard of sending thank you cards at Christmas.  After weddings, yes, but Christmas no.  Seems a little formal for family - especially if they were there while you opened the present and said "thank you".

I've always followed the rule that if I opened a gift in front of the giver and thanked them verbally then that is sufficient.  But all other gifts get a thank you note.*

*I bend this rule a little with my closest relatives (sister, parents) when they send me silly, random gifts --- those get a phone call thank you.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4254 on: January 06, 2018, 04:21:47 PM »
My parents' cats get a present at Christmas. They get a replacement for last year's catnip banana - another identical banana that is not so slobbered on it's grey and also still smells of catnip. The old one gets thrown away. That is the maximum appropriate involvement of pets in Christmas presents.

kayvent

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4255 on: January 06, 2018, 05:46:18 PM »
Anyone else in this situation?

I have a close friend who is a shopoholic like that. "It's was at sale at cost!" I used to be a lot more frustrated in these situations. Sometimes still do. What calms my soul is to know that, at least for the people I know, they are buying the stuff with good (but ill-informed) intentions.

Gone_Hiking

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4256 on: January 06, 2018, 06:06:40 PM »
My MIL is visiting.  We bought her tickets.  It's a good way to ensure the guests don't overstay their welcome.  DH and I are re-landscaping the back yard and we are reusing most of the materials that are already there.  DH stepped up to the challenge and upgraded the irrigation for the cost of materials only.  We have a budget, and there is an incentive to spend less, because any amount unspent will supplement family vacation fund.  MIL, meanwhile, wants us to take her to the Grand Canyon - never mind that a layoff a year ago resulted in a sizable pay cut for me and our household now works with shrunken budget.  MIL also complains about second or third cousins who, supported by a small military pension, disability checks, and a couple of low-wage gigs, bought a Hummer and a Caddy, have a mortgage, and seem to be perpetually short on cash.

But she is determined to motivate me to spend more, and to give me more work, as will become apparent shortly.  Today, I took her to a local nursery to buy a future shade tree.  In a 5-gallon pot, because I was going to dig the hole myself and 5-gallon pot is all my shovel and I can handle.   5-gallon pot doesn't make a very big shade tree.  I looked at the 15-gallon size, and that pot size gave my shovel the shakes.  So no, 5-gallon pot it is.  MIL thought 15-gallon would actually give some shade right away.  She did have a point, but then again, she was going to supervise while I dug through the hard pan layer... 

To check out, we walked through a greenhouse full of winter color, cacti, herbs, and the like.  I stopped at the herbs to survey the collection for the future reference; backyard renovation includes installation of an an herb/vegetable garden.  And she started oohing and aahing about how cute the thyme was and how I had to buy it because we had extra pots.  I said no.

When we got home, she proudly announced to my husband that she tried to get me to buy more stuff and that I was a difficult person to shop with.  And I, once again, patiently explained how I am not good at impulse shopping and how impulse control improves the bottom line.  She really doesn't seem to connect how our habits keep us afloat through promotions and layoffs whereas her and cousins' lack of control keeps them in the poor house.  But then, she doesn't have to: she gets monthly checks and two all-expenses-paid trips to visit us every year.

RWD

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4257 on: January 06, 2018, 06:53:18 PM »
I was just visiting family for the holidays and the number of Christmas presents my kids and other kids and adults in the family got was obscene.  The shopaholic relatives are all "frugal" ie they love to buy cheap and discounted stuff and boast about the bargains they got but, even so, they must have spent hundreds on Christmas presents.

Only hundreds? At my brother-in-law's in-law's Christmas there were probably 50+ presents and lots of them expensive (multiple video cameras and such). They spent thousands on their Christmas. And that's with only one grandchild. I shudder to think how it will continue to escalate in the future.

ketchup

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4258 on: January 06, 2018, 07:52:21 PM »
presents for all the relatives and their pets.
Wait, what?

Yep - a couple of my childless relatives consider their dogs to be their children so they have to get "presents".  I suggested a can of dog food but was shot down. 
Raw venison shoulder bones are a canine Christmas tradition in our house.  And turkey necks on Thanksgiving.

TexasStash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4259 on: January 06, 2018, 08:20:41 PM »
Unsolicited gifts (non holiday) that come from people who require a thank you card drive me a little insane.

It's partially generational and partially because I believe a true gift giver gives freely with no expectation of anything in return (I believe in saying thank you for all gifts, just think it's petty and a waste of time to wait around expecting a thank you).

Hula Hoop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4260 on: January 06, 2018, 11:20:54 PM »
I was just visiting family for the holidays and the number of Christmas presents my kids and other kids and adults in the family got was obscene.  The shopaholic relatives are all "frugal" ie they love to buy cheap and discounted stuff and boast about the bargains they got but, even so, they must have spent hundreds on Christmas presents.

Only hundreds? At my brother-in-law's in-law's Christmas there were probably 50+ presents and lots of them expensive (multiple video cameras and such). They spent thousands on their Christmas. And that's with only one grandchild. I shudder to think how it will continue to escalate in the future.

Yikes.  No my relatives are "frugal" (they are mostly retired teachers so limited money) so they just spend hundreds.  Everything was a bargain got on sale but it adds up to a lot of junk and a lot of money.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4261 on: January 07, 2018, 03:21:26 AM »
I don't have kids myself, but what I see happening to my friends (Milennials) is that their babyboomer parents are used to living in large houses with lots of space and lots of stuff and they just can't adapt to the situation their kids are living in.

Most of our parents were born in the 1950s, got married in the 1970s, started to work straight out of highschool and stayed home until marriage. While living at home they already accumulated a lot of stuff. They stuffed their childhood bedroom with large amounts of tupperware, tablecloths, bedsheets and massive amounts of crockery & moved into large, 4-bedroom homes right after marriage. My generation generally moved out aged 18, went to college, lived with roommates for a few years until eventually settling down. House prices are a lot higher than they were back then and stable jobs that allow you to get a mortgage are harder to find, plus people have student debts. It's very hard to grasp for some parents why we don't do it the "proper" way.

Most of my friends with kids live in apartments. One friend lives in a two bedroom apartment with her husband and two kids. Her parents are very upset that their grandkids have to live in a small apartment, they really don't get why my friend doesn't just buy a big home with a garden. They keep bringing over huge amounts of toys and even outdoor toys for their future home with a garden. They are also very angry when my friend sells toys they no longer want / need, 'your generation just throws out everything!'. 

Her parents are probably a bit more extreme than most, and she should have been firmer with them a long time ago, but even my own mother feels slightly uncomfortable with the way we live. And we even own an actual house, not an apartment, although only 800 square ft. She kind of consoles herself by telling everyone we're 'sort of hippies'. 

Hula Hoop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4262 on: January 07, 2018, 03:48:42 AM »
I think my own mother feels that way about how we live.  We live in another country and most people live in apartments here rather than houses.  Houses are considered undesirable here in Italy for various reasons. 

Our apartment is quite big by Italian standards but it's still an apartment with limited storage space and our kids share a room (as do all their friends with siblings).  Also, frankly, we have less money than the older generation.  Salaries are lower now, pensions non-existent and real estate costs much more.  The boomers in my family can't seem to wrap their brains around the fact that the younger generation has to live on a lot less than they did.

Sibley

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4263 on: January 07, 2018, 11:23:22 AM »
I've also seen Boomer parents who understand the differences in some aspects, but not all. IE, student loans = no house, but they can't do the connections for no house = limited space = less stuff. End result is frustration all around. And then they get offended because stuff isn't wanted.

MishMash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4264 on: January 08, 2018, 08:30:51 AM »
My leech of a FIL moved in with us in August.  He has near six figures in debt due to spending issues, and his trophy wife divorced him and took him for A LOT of money in 2016, racked up close to six figures in lawyers bills that he had to pay for her.  He is in a hair on fire debt emergency and was living in a hotel room so we moved him in to try and clean up the mess, get his health back together and teach him that he's not going to be making 300k a year anymore.

It's been a rough road but I thought we were turning a corner, he's been keeping the spending more in check than he was (still a ways to go but better), he is waiting on a check to come in to pay off one of his credit cards, we got the MRI done and are awaiting the results.  Sounds hopeful right?

Nope.

DH gets a text from the ex wife saying, you need to set up your fathers account to pay me child support, it was due on the 1st for 575.  Now how old is this child one may ask?  DH's brother is TWENTY.  The divorce decree stipulated that child support stopped at 18.  He's been paying child support for an adult child for 2 years.  His brother didn't even live at home in high school, he lived at a boarding school.  DH told trophy wife he doesn't have the cash for it and she FLIPPED out and called FIL to berate him.  He just listened and didn't have the balls to tell her he is not going to be paying 30% of his monthly income to her for an adult child so now I am going to have to do it (DH is having flashbacks to his own divorce so doesn't want to deal). 

This woman took him for 800k almost half of that was in a retirement account that was from before their marriage but FIL couldn't provide 15 years of records that showed no co mingling since the company only maintains 10 years of records so she got half.  She also forced him at age 64 to purchase a 1.5 MILLION dollar house, on an interest only mortgage because "it was better for the boys school" they only had 2 years left in their perspective schools (FIL may be the laziest most spineless person I've ever met).  He then lost his job, and blew through savings holding onto the house.  After two years when it became clear no one would employ him at his age, they sold the house.  They moved into the hotel and she served him with divorce paperwork a week later and he was blindsided. 

All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.


Sibley

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4265 on: January 08, 2018, 08:53:10 AM »
My leech of a FIL moved in with us in August.  He has near six figures in debt due to spending issues, and his trophy wife divorced him and took him for A LOT of money in 2016, racked up close to six figures in lawyers bills that he had to pay for her.  He is in a hair on fire debt emergency and was living in a hotel room so we moved him in to try and clean up the mess, get his health back together and teach him that he's not going to be making 300k a year anymore.

It's been a rough road but I thought we were turning a corner, he's been keeping the spending more in check than he was (still a ways to go but better), he is waiting on a check to come in to pay off one of his credit cards, we got the MRI done and are awaiting the results.  Sounds hopeful right?

Nope.

DH gets a text from the ex wife saying, you need to set up your fathers account to pay me child support, it was due on the 1st for 575.  Now how old is this child one may ask?  DH's brother is TWENTY.  The divorce decree stipulated that child support stopped at 18.  He's been paying child support for an adult child for 2 years.  His brother didn't even live at home in high school, he lived at a boarding school.  DH told trophy wife he doesn't have the cash for it and she FLIPPED out and called FIL to berate him.  He just listened and didn't have the balls to tell her he is not going to be paying 30% of his monthly income to her for an adult child so now I am going to have to do it (DH is having flashbacks to his own divorce so doesn't want to deal). 

This woman took him for 800k almost half of that was in a retirement account that was from before their marriage but FIL couldn't provide 15 years of records that showed no co mingling since the company only maintains 10 years of records so she got half.  She also forced him at age 64 to purchase a 1.5 MILLION dollar house, on an interest only mortgage because "it was better for the boys school" they only had 2 years left in their perspective schools (FIL may be the laziest most spineless person I've ever met).  He then lost his job, and blew through savings holding onto the house.  After two years when it became clear no one would employ him at his age, they sold the house.  They moved into the hotel and she served him with divorce paperwork a week later and he was blindsided. 

All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.

Sounds like your FIL should consider filing for bankruptcy. Really. Stop paying his debts with your money too.

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4266 on: January 08, 2018, 11:41:26 AM »
I don't have kids myself, but what I see happening to my friends (Milennials) is that their babyboomer parents are used to living in large houses with lots of space and lots of stuff and they just can't adapt to the situation their kids are living in.

Most of our parents were born in the 1950s, got married in the 1970s, started to work straight out of highschool and stayed home until marriage. While living at home they already accumulated a lot of stuff. They stuffed their childhood bedroom with large amounts of tupperware, tablecloths, bedsheets and massive amounts of crockery & moved into large, 4-bedroom homes right after marriage. My generation generally moved out aged 18, went to college, lived with roommates for a few years until eventually settling down. House prices are a lot higher than they were back then and stable jobs that allow you to get a mortgage are harder to find, plus people have student debts. It's very hard to grasp for some parents why we don't do it the "proper" way.

Most of my friends with kids live in apartments. One friend lives in a two bedroom apartment with her husband and two kids. Her parents are very upset that their grandkids have to live in a small apartment, they really don't get why my friend doesn't just buy a big home with a garden. They keep bringing over huge amounts of toys and even outdoor toys for their future home with a garden. They are also very angry when my friend sells toys they no longer want / need, 'your generation just throws out everything!'. 

Her parents are probably a bit more extreme than most, and she should have been firmer with them a long time ago, but even my own mother feels slightly uncomfortable with the way we live. And we even own an actual house, not an apartment, although only 800 square ft. She kind of consoles herself by telling everyone we're 'sort of hippies'.
This is all pretty fascinating.  Just goes to show you needed a middle ground (X-er) or more movement.

I wonder how much of this depends on if you are rural or urban or suburban.  Middle class or poor or??

I'm an X-er. My older siblings (7 of them) are boomers.  We were rural.  They all graduated from HS and got jobs, but they most certainly did not live at home until they got married.  They did have "hope chests" with a certain amount of towels, dishware, pots and pans.  I'd estimate that my siblings worked FT and lived at home anywhere from 0 to 3 years.  Only one one sib lived at home until she got married.  The others left reasonably soon and rented apartments.  A few got degrees (eventually) by going to school at night.  No buying a 4BR house right off the bat.  Many of them rented first, when they did buy it was a smaller 3 BR house or more often a mobile home on a piece of land.  Mortgage rates were super high back then.  Double digits.

In any event, I didn't buy a house until my mid-30s.  I wonder if the boomer/ millennial parent/child thing depends on location and income?

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4267 on: January 08, 2018, 12:16:13 PM »
I don't have kids myself, but what I see happening to my friends (Milennials) is that their babyboomer parents are used to living in large houses with lots of space and lots of stuff and they just can't adapt to the situation their kids are living in.

Most of our parents were born in the 1950s, got married in the 1970s, started to work straight out of highschool and stayed home until marriage. While living at home they already accumulated a lot of stuff. They stuffed their childhood bedroom with large amounts of tupperware, tablecloths, bedsheets and massive amounts of crockery & moved into large, 4-bedroom homes right after marriage. My generation generally moved out aged 18, went to college, lived with roommates for a few years until eventually settling down. House prices are a lot higher than they were back then and stable jobs that allow you to get a mortgage are harder to find, plus people have student debts. It's very hard to grasp for some parents why we don't do it the "proper" way.

Most of my friends with kids live in apartments. One friend lives in a two bedroom apartment with her husband and two kids. Her parents are very upset that their grandkids have to live in a small apartment, they really don't get why my friend doesn't just buy a big home with a garden. They keep bringing over huge amounts of toys and even outdoor toys for their future home with a garden. They are also very angry when my friend sells toys they no longer want / need, 'your generation just throws out everything!'. 

Her parents are probably a bit more extreme than most, and she should have been firmer with them a long time ago, but even my own mother feels slightly uncomfortable with the way we live. And we even own an actual house, not an apartment, although only 800 square ft. She kind of consoles herself by telling everyone we're 'sort of hippies'.
This is all pretty fascinating.  Just goes to show you needed a middle ground (X-er) or more movement.

I wonder how much of this depends on if you are rural or urban or suburban.  Middle class or poor or??

I'm an X-er. My older siblings (7 of them) are boomers.  We were rural.  They all graduated from HS and got jobs, but they most certainly did not live at home until they got married.  They did have "hope chests" with a certain amount of towels, dishware, pots and pans.  I'd estimate that my siblings worked FT and lived at home anywhere from 0 to 3 years.  Only one one sib lived at home until she got married.  The others left reasonably soon and rented apartments.  A few got degrees (eventually) by going to school at night.  No buying a 4BR house right off the bat.  Many of them rented first, when they did buy it was a smaller 3 BR house or more often a mobile home on a piece of land.  Mortgage rates were super high back then.  Double digits.

In any event, I didn't buy a house until my mid-30s.  I wonder if the boomer/ millennial parent/child thing depends on location and income?

I'm sure it's different in different environments. Lots of things were happening in the 60s and 70s but it took some time before those developments trickled down to where we lived. I'm pretty sure my parents and in-laws are from a fairly "backwards" area. They are probably the age of your oldest siblings (considering your username) and they grew up in rural, working class, strongly catholic environments. My parents married aged 20. I'm sure religion had something to do with everyone staying home until marriage. Moving out for a woman was improper and for a man it wasn't practical because he was supposed to save up to buy a house. For young women, everything revolved around getting married or finding someone to marry. By the time I grew up in the same town in the 90s, things were different, but it's still a relatively conservative place. Me and my friends all moved away as soon as we could and I find it increasingly hard to connect to the people who stayed there, when I meet them when I'm back in my hometown.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4268 on: January 09, 2018, 04:50:48 AM »
<...>
All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.

Great that you are being his voice in this. Some people are just not strong enough to say no to those who request their money and they need help.
Also good to set limits for what he can do. You should not be sponsoring her by supporting him.

penguintroopers

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4269 on: January 09, 2018, 08:48:21 AM »
Got a text from my brother today. He's trying out a meal delivery service, and needed my email to send me a referral code. I look up the meal plan, and it is $10/person, for just dinner! In comparison, we spend about $10/day for the two of us.

His reasoning? $25 off for two weeks is good!

(For fun, I did the math on the cost if I did it with the promo: 2 people * 3 recipes * $10 = $60, and taking the $40 promo off its $20. For 6 people's worth of servings, it would make dinner at $3.33/plate, which would fall in line with our current spending. BUT considering I could only do this once, I think I'll just pass and just continue to not miss something I never had. Also, I would feel guilt about the packaging and waste that goes into those boxes, particularly those freezer bag things.)

economista

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4270 on: January 09, 2018, 09:04:02 AM »
I'm sure it's different in different environments. Lots of things were happening in the 60s and 70s but it took some time before those developments trickled down to where we lived. I'm pretty sure my parents and in-laws are from a fairly "backwards" area. They are probably the age of your oldest siblings (considering your username) and they grew up in rural, working class, strongly catholic environments. My parents married aged 20. I'm sure religion had something to do with everyone staying home until marriage. Moving out for a woman was improper and for a man it wasn't practical because he was supposed to save up to buy a house. For young women, everything revolved around getting married or finding someone to marry. By the time I grew up in the same town in the 90s, things were different, but it's still a relatively conservative place. Me and my friends all moved away as soon as we could and I find it increasingly hard to connect to the people who stayed there, when I meet them when I'm back in my hometown.

This still happens today in rural, backwards areas.  My family is from a rural area and we are catholic.  Women live at home until they get married (usually between 18-22).  I was the first person in my family to graduate from college.  When I was a freshman in college I opted to live in an apartment instead of at home or in the dorms.  This immediately started a huge family fight and my uncle tried to say I was no longer welcome in his house and I wasn't allowed to see my cousins, as I was obviously a bad influence.  Girls were supposed to live at home until they were married, and an unmarried girl can't possibly be doing good things if she is living outside of her parents house.  At 25 I bought a house all on my own and got engaged to my DH, who promptly moved in with me.  From that point forward I really wasn't allowed in his house anymore.  I didn't quit my job when we got married so that is another strike against me, and we've been married for 4 months now and I haven't made any announcements about a baby coming, so pretty soon I'll be able to add another line item about how terrible of an example I am setting for my younger cousins.   

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4271 on: January 09, 2018, 09:08:50 AM »
I read you history there and thought - ahh, yes - the 60s or the 70s. Nope - that's recent. Good luck, you sound like you're doing great.

I find that DW and I are intolerant of intolerant people like your uncle. We have them in our family too.

MishMash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4272 on: January 09, 2018, 09:19:28 AM »
My leech of a FIL moved in with us in August.  He has near six figures in debt due to spending issues, and his trophy wife divorced him and took him for A LOT of money in 2016, racked up close to six figures in lawyers bills that he had to pay for her.  He is in a hair on fire debt emergency and was living in a hotel room so we moved him in to try and clean up the mess, get his health back together and teach him that he's not going to be making 300k a year anymore.

It's been a rough road but I thought we were turning a corner, he's been keeping the spending more in check than he was (still a ways to go but better), he is waiting on a check to come in to pay off one of his credit cards, we got the MRI done and are awaiting the results.  Sounds hopeful right?

Nope.

DH gets a text from the ex wife saying, you need to set up your fathers account to pay me child support, it was due on the 1st for 575.  Now how old is this child one may ask?  DH's brother is TWENTY.  The divorce decree stipulated that child support stopped at 18.  He's been paying child support for an adult child for 2 years.  His brother didn't even live at home in high school, he lived at a boarding school.  DH told trophy wife he doesn't have the cash for it and she FLIPPED out and called FIL to berate him.  He just listened and didn't have the balls to tell her he is not going to be paying 30% of his monthly income to her for an adult child so now I am going to have to do it (DH is having flashbacks to his own divorce so doesn't want to deal). 

This woman took him for 800k almost half of that was in a retirement account that was from before their marriage but FIL couldn't provide 15 years of records that showed no co mingling since the company only maintains 10 years of records so she got half.  She also forced him at age 64 to purchase a 1.5 MILLION dollar house, on an interest only mortgage because "it was better for the boys school" they only had 2 years left in their perspective schools (FIL may be the laziest most spineless person I've ever met).  He then lost his job, and blew through savings holding onto the house.  After two years when it became clear no one would employ him at his age, they sold the house.  They moved into the hotel and she served him with divorce paperwork a week later and he was blindsided. 

All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.

Sounds like your FIL should consider filing for bankruptcy. Really. Stop paying his debts with your money too.

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

vivophoenix

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4273 on: January 09, 2018, 09:34:42 AM »
My leech of a FIL moved in with us in August.  He has near six figures in debt due to spending issues, and his trophy wife divorced him and took him for A LOT of money in 2016, racked up close to six figures in lawyers bills that he had to pay for her.  He is in a hair on fire debt emergency and was living in a hotel room so we moved him in to try and clean up the mess, get his health back together and teach him that he's not going to be making 300k a year anymore.

It's been a rough road but I thought we were turning a corner, he's been keeping the spending more in check than he was (still a ways to go but better), he is waiting on a check to come in to pay off one of his credit cards, we got the MRI done and are awaiting the results.  Sounds hopeful right?

Nope.

DH gets a text from the ex wife saying, you need to set up your fathers account to pay me child support, it was due on the 1st for 575.  Now how old is this child one may ask?  DH's brother is TWENTY.  The divorce decree stipulated that child support stopped at 18.  He's been paying child support for an adult child for 2 years.  His brother didn't even live at home in high school, he lived at a boarding school.  DH told trophy wife he doesn't have the cash for it and she FLIPPED out and called FIL to berate him.  He just listened and didn't have the balls to tell her he is not going to be paying 30% of his monthly income to her for an adult child so now I am going to have to do it (DH is having flashbacks to his own divorce so doesn't want to deal). 

This woman took him for 800k almost half of that was in a retirement account that was from before their marriage but FIL couldn't provide 15 years of records that showed no co mingling since the company only maintains 10 years of records so she got half.  She also forced him at age 64 to purchase a 1.5 MILLION dollar house, on an interest only mortgage because "it was better for the boys school" they only had 2 years left in their perspective schools (FIL may be the laziest most spineless person I've ever met).  He then lost his job, and blew through savings holding onto the house.  After two years when it became clear no one would employ him at his age, they sold the house.  They moved into the hotel and she served him with divorce paperwork a week later and he was blindsided. 

All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.

Sounds like your FIL should consider filing for bankruptcy. Really. Stop paying his debts with your money too.

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

i mean of course, he doesn't want things handed to him, such as your money, home or food.

tell him to stay strong in his convictions of independence!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4274 on: January 09, 2018, 09:43:41 AM »
My leech of a FIL moved in with us in August.  He has near six figures in debt due to spending issues, and his trophy wife divorced him and took him for A LOT of money in 2016, racked up close to six figures in lawyers bills that he had to pay for her.  He is in a hair on fire debt emergency and was living in a hotel room so we moved him in to try and clean up the mess, get his health back together and teach him that he's not going to be making 300k a year anymore.

It's been a rough road but I thought we were turning a corner, he's been keeping the spending more in check than he was (still a ways to go but better), he is waiting on a check to come in to pay off one of his credit cards, we got the MRI done and are awaiting the results.  Sounds hopeful right?

Nope.

DH gets a text from the ex wife saying, you need to set up your fathers account to pay me child support, it was due on the 1st for 575.  Now how old is this child one may ask?  DH's brother is TWENTY.  The divorce decree stipulated that child support stopped at 18.  He's been paying child support for an adult child for 2 years.  His brother didn't even live at home in high school, he lived at a boarding school.  DH told trophy wife he doesn't have the cash for it and she FLIPPED out and called FIL to berate him.  He just listened and didn't have the balls to tell her he is not going to be paying 30% of his monthly income to her for an adult child so now I am going to have to do it (DH is having flashbacks to his own divorce so doesn't want to deal). 

This woman took him for 800k almost half of that was in a retirement account that was from before their marriage but FIL couldn't provide 15 years of records that showed no co mingling since the company only maintains 10 years of records so she got half.  She also forced him at age 64 to purchase a 1.5 MILLION dollar house, on an interest only mortgage because "it was better for the boys school" they only had 2 years left in their perspective schools (FIL may be the laziest most spineless person I've ever met).  He then lost his job, and blew through savings holding onto the house.  After two years when it became clear no one would employ him at his age, they sold the house.  They moved into the hotel and she served him with divorce paperwork a week later and he was blindsided. 

All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.

Sounds like your FIL should consider filing for bankruptcy. Really. Stop paying his debts with your money too.

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

i mean of course, he doesn't want things handed to him, such as your money, home or food.

tell him to stay strong in his convictions of independence!

Yup, that's pretty much how DH and I feel.  He's fine so long as I buy his beer, and feed him (PS he's too lazy to even microwave leftovers, and NO I don't do this for him) and harp on him about his bills. But heaven forbid his ex states she wants something...he'll bend over backwards for that one since he's a "man of his word".  Minus the rent he's supposed to pay us and doesn't. 

ysette9

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4275 on: January 09, 2018, 09:54:53 AM »

This still happens today in rural, backwards areas.  My family is from a rural area and we are catholic.  Women live at home until they get married (usually between 18-22).  I was the first person in my family to graduate from college.  When I was a freshman in college I opted to live in an apartment instead of at home or in the dorms.  This immediately started a huge family fight and my uncle tried to say I was no longer welcome in his house and I wasn't allowed to see my cousins, as I was obviously a bad influence.  Girls were supposed to live at home until they were married, and an unmarried girl can't possibly be doing good things if she is living outside of her parents house.  At 25 I bought a house all on my own and got engaged to my DH, who promptly moved in with me.  From that point forward I really wasn't allowed in his house anymore.  I didn't quit my job when we got married so that is another strike against me, and we've been married for 4 months now and I haven't made any announcements about a baby coming, so pretty soon I'll be able to add another line item about how terrible of an example I am setting for my younger cousins.   

In my view you are being an excellent example for your younger cousins! Good job.

economista

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4276 on: January 09, 2018, 10:08:49 AM »

This still happens today in rural, backwards areas.  My family is from a rural area and we are catholic.  Women live at home until they get married (usually between 18-22).  I was the first person in my family to graduate from college.  When I was a freshman in college I opted to live in an apartment instead of at home or in the dorms.  This immediately started a huge family fight and my uncle tried to say I was no longer welcome in his house and I wasn't allowed to see my cousins, as I was obviously a bad influence.  Girls were supposed to live at home until they were married, and an unmarried girl can't possibly be doing good things if she is living outside of her parents house.  At 25 I bought a house all on my own and got engaged to my DH, who promptly moved in with me.  From that point forward I really wasn't allowed in his house anymore.  I didn't quit my job when we got married so that is another strike against me, and we've been married for 4 months now and I haven't made any announcements about a baby coming, so pretty soon I'll be able to add another line item about how terrible of an example I am setting for my younger cousins.   

In my view you are being an excellent example for your younger cousins! Good job.

Thank You! :)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4277 on: January 09, 2018, 10:15:54 AM »
In any event, I didn't buy a house until my mid-30s.  I wonder if the boomer/ millennial parent/child thing depends on location and income?

Boomer here who did not buy a house until mid-30s, DH was 40, both of us with Silent Generation parents.

We lived in 3 apartments over 12 years before making the homeownership jump.  We are in a large Midwestern metro area.   Prices were a bit too steep for us to get into homeownership when we were first married, plus both of us were recent college graduates just starting out in our careers.  So it wasn't just the money, it was also the fact that we didn't know if we would necessary stay in the area.  Renting was not just the more affordable option (and allowing us to save more) but it also would allow us to more easily relocate to be closer to a job, which incidentally we ended up doing.

But we couldn't make our Silent Generation parents understand that.   Both my and DH's parents wrung their hands over "how we were throwing away our money", or "we need home equity" or "if we wait, we will be priced out of the market" among other worries.    My parents moved into a house immediately upon marriage, DH's parents got into their own home after FIL got out of the military, just five years after their marriage.  So I get both of them were homeowners earlier than us and couldn't understand what we were waiting for.

And then when we did buy a home, it was a newly built townhome that we choose as the best option for us.  Then came the statements that we "weren't in a real house", that it was  "only a condo" and when will we move into "a real house" so we can do right, proper homeowner things like mowing our own lawn and shoveling snow*.   Because we still weren't doing what they did. 

We could have moved into a larger home eventually, but in the end determined that our first home was just fine for us and we are still there.  In fact, I think it was a huge factor in us having the savings we have now. 

* ETA: we do actually shovel snow, the snow removal folks can't shovel our deck.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 10:21:54 AM by saguaro »

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4278 on: January 09, 2018, 10:17:32 AM »
My leech of a FIL moved in with us in August.  He has near six figures in debt due to spending issues, and his trophy wife divorced him and took him for A LOT of money in 2016, racked up close to six figures in lawyers bills that he had to pay for her.  He is in a hair on fire debt emergency and was living in a hotel room so we moved him in to try and clean up the mess, get his health back together and teach him that he's not going to be making 300k a year anymore.

It's been a rough road but I thought we were turning a corner, he's been keeping the spending more in check than he was (still a ways to go but better), he is waiting on a check to come in to pay off one of his credit cards, we got the MRI done and are awaiting the results.  Sounds hopeful right?

Nope.

DH gets a text from the ex wife saying, you need to set up your fathers account to pay me child support, it was due on the 1st for 575.  Now how old is this child one may ask?  DH's brother is TWENTY.  The divorce decree stipulated that child support stopped at 18.  He's been paying child support for an adult child for 2 years.  His brother didn't even live at home in high school, he lived at a boarding school.  DH told trophy wife he doesn't have the cash for it and she FLIPPED out and called FIL to berate him.  He just listened and didn't have the balls to tell her he is not going to be paying 30% of his monthly income to her for an adult child so now I am going to have to do it (DH is having flashbacks to his own divorce so doesn't want to deal). 

This woman took him for 800k almost half of that was in a retirement account that was from before their marriage but FIL couldn't provide 15 years of records that showed no co mingling since the company only maintains 10 years of records so she got half.  She also forced him at age 64 to purchase a 1.5 MILLION dollar house, on an interest only mortgage because "it was better for the boys school" they only had 2 years left in their perspective schools (FIL may be the laziest most spineless person I've ever met).  He then lost his job, and blew through savings holding onto the house.  After two years when it became clear no one would employ him at his age, they sold the house.  They moved into the hotel and she served him with divorce paperwork a week later and he was blindsided. 

All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.

Sounds like your FIL should consider filing for bankruptcy. Really. Stop paying his debts with your money too.

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

i mean of course, he doesn't want things handed to him, such as your money, home or food.

tell him to stay strong in his convictions of independence!

Yup, that's pretty much how DH and I feel.  He's fine so long as I buy his beer, and feed him (PS he's too lazy to even microwave leftovers, and NO I don't do this for him) and harp on him about his bills. But heaven forbid his ex states she wants something...he'll bend over backwards for that one since he's a "man of his word".  Minus the rent he's supposed to pay us and doesn't.

You need to figure things out with your husband with what to do. This kind of thing will destroy a marriage if it goes long enough.

gaja

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4279 on: January 09, 2018, 11:09:27 AM »
Got a text from my brother today. He's trying out a meal delivery service, and needed my email to send me a referral code. I look up the meal plan, and it is $10/person, for just dinner! In comparison, we spend about $10/day for the two of us.

His reasoning? $25 off for two weeks is good!

(For fun, I did the math on the cost if I did it with the promo: 2 people * 3 recipes * $10 = $60, and taking the $40 promo off its $20. For 6 people's worth of servings, it would make dinner at $3.33/plate, which would fall in line with our current spending. BUT considering I could only do this once, I think I'll just pass and just continue to not miss something I never had. Also, I would feel guilt about the packaging and waste that goes into those boxes, particularly those freezer bag things.)

I've never tried any meal deliveries, but have heard from other people that the portions often are so large that you get two dinners (or dinner+lunch) out of one. If that is the case here, it might be a good deal for the promotion period.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4280 on: January 09, 2018, 02:46:29 PM »

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

So he thinks he's a man of his word and doesn't want things handed to them, and yet he expects you to take care of his problems? Yeah I wouldn't tolerate that shit in my house.

MrMoogle

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4281 on: January 09, 2018, 02:58:54 PM »
6 years ago, my grandfather passed away.  A month or so after, my grandmother got a phone call from her niece.  She had just invested ~$50k into an app and thought my grandmother should get in too.  It's the chance of a lifetime.  My grandfather had handled all their financials, so my dad and I were digging into everything to simplify her life (it was a mess, he still had paper stocks, some of which were companies that had been bought and sold multiple times since they were called what they were, they had a dozen savings accounts, a dozen brokerage accounts).  Luckily my dad talked her out of it, basically pointing out that only like 5% of new businesses last a year.  She also agreed she shouldn't make any big financial decisions right after my grandfather's death.

A few weeks later, I saw her and we talked about it.  It sounded like the app was supposed to be a medical app that allowed you to view X-rays and other scans.  One of her nieces is a doctor, so she would likely know if this is something that's in demand or not, so it seemed like it could have potential.  Then I asked about the financials.  "Well we'd make back our investments quickly, since the app is going for $1000, and all doctors are going to need this."  That's when I backed my dad's statement, that this probably wasn't an investment for her.  Can you imagine anyone paying $1000 for any app?  That's crazy.  She was disappointed, she still wanted to invest.

3 years ago, when I saw GM, she brought it back up, saying how well it was doing and how everyone was using it.  She was disappointed that she hadn't gotten in when she could have.  So I asked how much her nieces had made, to which she did not have an answer, but was confident it was lots of money.

I saw GM last weekend, and she brought it up again.  This time to express her brilliance of how she declined to invest in the company.  The company is dying, and her nieces never got a penny back.  And the doctor niece had spent a lot of effort marketing the product.  She saw through the company to what it really was and was really disappointed her nieces didn't listen to her when they invested.  She tried to save them so much money.

I had nothing I could say.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4282 on: January 09, 2018, 03:07:54 PM »
I'm sure it's different in different environments. Lots of things were happening in the 60s and 70s but it took some time before those developments trickled down to where we lived. I'm pretty sure my parents and in-laws are from a fairly "backwards" area. They are probably the age of your oldest siblings (considering your username) and they grew up in rural, working class, strongly catholic environments. My parents married aged 20. I'm sure religion had something to do with everyone staying home until marriage. Moving out for a woman was improper and for a man it wasn't practical because he was supposed to save up to buy a house. For young women, everything revolved around getting married or finding someone to marry. By the time I grew up in the same town in the 90s, things were different, but it's still a relatively conservative place. Me and my friends all moved away as soon as we could and I find it increasingly hard to connect to the people who stayed there, when I meet them when I'm back in my hometown.

This still happens today in rural, backwards areas.  My family is from a rural area and we are catholic.  Women live at home until they get married (usually between 18-22).  I was the first person in my family to graduate from college.  When I was a freshman in college I opted to live in an apartment instead of at home or in the dorms.  This immediately started a huge family fight and my uncle tried to say I was no longer welcome in his house and I wasn't allowed to see my cousins, as I was obviously a bad influence.  Girls were supposed to live at home until they were married, and an unmarried girl can't possibly be doing good things if she is living outside of her parents house.  At 25 I bought a house all on my own and got engaged to my DH, who promptly moved in with me.  From that point forward I really wasn't allowed in his house anymore.  I didn't quit my job when we got married so that is another strike against me, and we've been married for 4 months now and I haven't made any announcements about a baby coming, so pretty soon I'll be able to add another line item about how terrible of an example I am setting for my younger cousins.   

Quote
I'm sure it's different in different environments. Lots of things were happening in the 60s and 70s but it took some time before those developments trickled down to where we lived. I'm pretty sure my parents and in-laws are from a fairly "backwards" area. They are probably the age of your oldest siblings (considering your username) and they grew up in rural, working class, strongly catholic environments. My parents married aged 20. I'm sure religion had something to do with everyone staying home until marriage. Moving out for a woman was improper and for a man it wasn't practical because he was supposed to save up to buy a house. For young women, everything revolved around getting married or finding someone to marry. By the time I grew up in the same town in the 90s, things were different, but it's still a relatively conservative place. Me and my friends all moved away as soon as we could and I find it increasingly hard to connect to the people who stayed there, when I meet them when I'm back in my hometown.

Yep, rural and Catholic.  My eldest siblings were born in the early 1950s.

Even when I was turning 16 in the 1980s, my dad told me I should get married and have "an easy life", which apparently he told all my older sisters too.  And nobody listened.

I was the first in my immediate family to go to college right after HS.  But the whole family was trending that way.  A couple of older cousins were nurses (RNs and LPNs).  The male versions went into the military.  My year we all went to college (4 cousins the same age).  By the time you roll down to the youngest cousins, 6-10 years younger than me, you've got two women with PhDs - in astro-physics and micro-biology.

Our rural Catholic area seems to be changing!

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4283 on: January 09, 2018, 06:45:37 PM »

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

So he thinks he's a man of his word and doesn't want things handed to them, and yet he expects you to take care of his problems? Yeah I wouldn't tolerate that shit in my house.

If he's a "man of his word" then he ought to have paid his bills already. If he's "independent" and "doesn't want things handed to him" then he shouldn't be mooching off you like a hungry infant that won't let go of the nipple. Furthermore, if he's "responsible" he shouldn't have gotten up to his eyeballs in debt to begin with. The only thing he's "under attack" from is his grandiose self-image, which bears no resemblance to reality that I can see.

There are two kinds of people in the entitlement class: the ones who sponge off the public systems funded by the taxpayer, and the "proud, fiercely independent" ones who are too good to lower themselves to seek or accept any form of public aid, and who therefore sponge off their families and friends. The latter type are the ones who destroy entire families. Nobody ever put their brother, sister, parent, or child in debt by applying for a public program, declaring bankruptcy, or cashing a disability check.

People like your FIL are more than willing to drive your household into the ground by taking from you in order to give to others and to fill the gap between their consumption and their means. He would rather spend through your savings, ruin your cash flow, and drive you and his own son-- into bankruptcy than declare it himself, simply because protecting his precious ego is that much more important. That's why he's willing to let you liquidate assets to get his debts current. It's also why he's unwilling to say "no" to the gold digging. In his mind, he's committed to the notion that it's OK to take from you to give to somebody else.

The key difference between someone who declares bankruptcy, or someone who makes use of social programs, and your father is this: when someone makes use of a social program, a food bank, a charity, or bankruptcy proceedings the hit is spread among hundreds or even thousands of people and household. What your FIL is doing is seeing to it that the hit is absorbed by just one household: yours! Even if he made no further requests on your resources, it will take months or maybe even years to put your family finances back where they used to be.

iluvzbeach

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4284 on: January 09, 2018, 07:05:00 PM »
^+1

TGS, this resonates with me on so many levels about my own father. Fantastic post, quite possibly one of the best I’ve read.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4285 on: January 09, 2018, 08:36:46 PM »
There are two kinds of people in the entitlement class: the ones who sponge off the public systems funded by the taxpayer, and the "proud, fiercely independent" ones who are too good to lower themselves to seek or accept any form of public aid, and who therefore sponge off their families and friends. The latter type are the ones who destroy entire families. Nobody ever put their brother, sister, parent, or child in debt by applying for a public program, declaring bankruptcy, or cashing a disability check.

You've left out the third kind of person in the entitlement class:  the ones who BOTH sponge off the public systems funded by the taxpayer (sometimes fraudulently) AND sponge off their families and friends (often manipulatively and/or which heaps of abuse).  Exhibit 1 is my first brother.  Absolutely toxic.

Step37

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4286 on: January 09, 2018, 10:28:25 PM »
Got a text from my brother today. He's trying out a meal delivery service, and needed my email to send me a referral code. I look up the meal plan, and it is $10/person, for just dinner! In comparison, we spend about $10/day for the two of us.

His reasoning? $25 off for two weeks is good!

(For fun, I did the math on the cost if I did it with the promo: 2 people * 3 recipes * $10 = $60, and taking the $40 promo off its $20. For 6 people's worth of servings, it would make dinner at $3.33/plate, which would fall in line with our current spending. BUT considering I could only do this once, I think I'll just pass and just continue to not miss something I never had. Also, I would feel guilt about the packaging and waste that goes into those boxes, particularly those freezer bag things.)

I've never tried any meal deliveries, but have heard from other people that the portions often are so large that you get two dinners (or dinner+lunch) out of one. If that is the case here, it might be a good deal for the promotion period.

My sister gets this service and I’ve tried a few of the meals while visiting (they were tasty). Aside from the fact that it’s multiple times more expensive than buying groceries and cooking for yourself (and my sister is really not in a position to afford this luxury), the amount of packaging/waste makes me physically ill. I’ve also heard that the working conditions at the food prep places are absolutely abysmal. I would not do it no matter how good the deal was.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4287 on: January 10, 2018, 04:23:53 AM »
I'm sure it's different in different environments. Lots of things were happening in the 60s and 70s but it took some time before those developments trickled down to where we lived. I'm pretty sure my parents and in-laws are from a fairly "backwards" area. They are probably the age of your oldest siblings (considering your username) and they grew up in rural, working class, strongly catholic environments. My parents married aged 20. I'm sure religion had something to do with everyone staying home until marriage. Moving out for a woman was improper and for a man it wasn't practical because he was supposed to save up to buy a house. For young women, everything revolved around getting married or finding someone to marry. By the time I grew up in the same town in the 90s, things were different, but it's still a relatively conservative place. Me and my friends all moved away as soon as we could and I find it increasingly hard to connect to the people who stayed there, when I meet them when I'm back in my hometown.

This still happens today in rural, backwards areas.  My family is from a rural area and we are catholic.  Women live at home until they get married (usually between 18-22).  I was the first person in my family to graduate from college.  When I was a freshman in college I opted to live in an apartment instead of at home or in the dorms.  This immediately started a huge family fight and my uncle tried to say I was no longer welcome in his house and I wasn't allowed to see my cousins, as I was obviously a bad influence.  Girls were supposed to live at home until they were married, and an unmarried girl can't possibly be doing good things if she is living outside of her parents house.  At 25 I bought a house all on my own and got engaged to my DH, who promptly moved in with me.  From that point forward I really wasn't allowed in his house anymore.  I didn't quit my job when we got married so that is another strike against me, and we've been married for 4 months now and I haven't made any announcements about a baby coming, so pretty soon I'll be able to add another line item about how terrible of an example I am setting for my younger cousins.   

Quote
I'm sure it's different in different environments. Lots of things were happening in the 60s and 70s but it took some time before those developments trickled down to where we lived. I'm pretty sure my parents and in-laws are from a fairly "backwards" area. They are probably the age of your oldest siblings (considering your username) and they grew up in rural, working class, strongly catholic environments. My parents married aged 20. I'm sure religion had something to do with everyone staying home until marriage. Moving out for a woman was improper and for a man it wasn't practical because he was supposed to save up to buy a house. For young women, everything revolved around getting married or finding someone to marry. By the time I grew up in the same town in the 90s, things were different, but it's still a relatively conservative place. Me and my friends all moved away as soon as we could and I find it increasingly hard to connect to the people who stayed there, when I meet them when I'm back in my hometown.

Yep, rural and Catholic.  My eldest siblings were born in the early 1950s.

Even when I was turning 16 in the 1980s, my dad told me I should get married and have "an easy life", which apparently he told all my older sisters too.  And nobody listened.

I was the first in my immediate family to go to college right after HS.  But the whole family was trending that way.  A couple of older cousins were nurses (RNs and LPNs).  The male versions went into the military.  My year we all went to college (4 cousins the same age).  By the time you roll down to the youngest cousins, 6-10 years younger than me, you've got two women with PhDs - in astro-physics and micro-biology.

Our rural Catholic area seems to be changing!

I had one uncle (about your age, the youngest in the family) who didn't get married until he was in his late 30s (and promptly divorced) and is now married to a woman with several kids from several previous marriages. Other than that, everyone from that generation stuck to the script.

But in my generation things are changing. As the oldest, I was the first to go to college, but after me everyone went. None of us are married yet, I am living in sin with my fiance and no one really cares. None of us still go to church, but my grandma has grown milder now she's in her 80s and she says she's sure God knows we're good people. I fled from the village because I was tired of the social control there, but I'd love to go back to a more rural life some day.

MishMash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4288 on: January 10, 2018, 07:19:24 AM »
^+1

TGS, this resonates with me on so many levels about my own father. Fantastic post, quite possibly one of the best I’ve read.

Yup, he hit the nail on the head.  You will hear no arguments from me, FIL is spineless and delusional.  He swears when his back gets better that he will get another full time job.  He's 71 and hasn't worked in 4 years...

The ex wife is livid, screaming that he can take it out of his investment accounts (he's got some but not enough to cover his ass for the rest of his life), I point blank told her, Nope...not gonna happen, he's in this situation because of you and your overspending for the past 15 years, you will never see another dime out of him, he needs that money to prepare for his future, of which, you and your wants are no longer a concern.  She started screaming at me on the phone and I said "listen, you and DHS sisters, hoisted him onto us, told us he "was dying" and "needed rescuing" and yet none of you, who LIVED 10 minutes away did a damn thing, Frankly, I think you are an evil bitch, so I don't really care what you want, nor do I care if you despise me.  I have one goal for the next year and that is to get him physically and financially better and out of my damn house.  He will NOT be paying anything that he doesn't absolutely have to, and that list includes paying you".  She hung up on me.  Don't care, it actually felt good getting that off my chest.

FYI, he has a year and a half timeline to clean this all up, then he is out, there is no if ands or buts, we have a signed lease set to terminate. 

Sibley

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4289 on: January 10, 2018, 11:16:44 AM »
^+1

TGS, this resonates with me on so many levels about my own father. Fantastic post, quite possibly one of the best I’ve read.

Yup, he hit the nail on the head.  You will hear no arguments from me, FIL is spineless and delusional.  He swears when his back gets better that he will get another full time job.  He's 71 and hasn't worked in 4 years...

The ex wife is livid, screaming that he can take it out of his investment accounts (he's got some but not enough to cover his ass for the rest of his life), I point blank told her, Nope...not gonna happen, he's in this situation because of you and your overspending for the past 15 years, you will never see another dime out of him, he needs that money to prepare for his future, of which, you and your wants are no longer a concern.  She started screaming at me on the phone and I said "listen, you and DHS sisters, hoisted him onto us, told us he "was dying" and "needed rescuing" and yet none of you, who LIVED 10 minutes away did a damn thing, Frankly, I think you are an evil bitch, so I don't really care what you want, nor do I care if you despise me.  I have one goal for the next year and that is to get him physically and financially better and out of my damn house.  He will NOT be paying anything that he doesn't absolutely have to, and that list includes paying you".  She hung up on me.  Don't care, it actually felt good getting that off my chest.

FYI, he has a year and a half timeline to clean this all up, then he is out, there is no if ands or buts, we have a signed lease set to terminate.

Good for you!!!!!!

ringer707

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4290 on: January 10, 2018, 02:05:38 PM »
Nothing new yet, but I'm gearing up for a weekend of wedding planning with my mom and sister.  Sister has already bitched a bit about the way we're planning things, because we're not having a big fancy venue reception or a ceremony at all, and I wasn't planning on buying a dress.  She insisted that I can't possibly get married in a dress I already have, it somehow "wouldn't be a wedding" unless I buy a traditional wedding gown.  She shut up when I offered to let her pay for it.  Based on my chat with my mom last night, it sounded like she will join the chorus on the dress, but it's possible she is intending to pay for it (she bought my sister's wedding gown, which was never worn as they didn't end up having a public ceremony), in which case I'll let her win.  We're going to be firm about the small private ceremony and restaurant reception, though!  Gotta brace myself for the arguments.

This was my mom. We did have a larger wedding because it was what I wanted, but I still did it in a city park and and kept decorations and flowers very low key. Among the many things my mom suggested we do for our wedding so we wouldn't like cheap were:

1. Have me buy a dress almost double my budget that I didn't even like as much as another dress because "it's only one day." I looked at her and said "Right. It's literally only one day."
2. Rent a limo to take us to/from the reception that was 2 miles from the hotel we were staying at. No thanks, we can drive our Hyundai to and from.
3. She was FURIOUS that we chose to have our bridal party/immediate family only rehearsal dinner at a very popular local pizza place since I didn't want my in-laws to shell out a crazy amount for a rehearsal dinner. Especially given that they designed and paid for ALL paper products (save the dates, invitations, thank you notes) since FIL is a graphic designer. It's a fun restaurant and we had a great time and enjoyed some great pizza.

I'm sure there are others that I'm forgetting. Whenever she came up with something like that, I just told her to get a price quote on it to see how much it would cost HER and she usually dropped it after that.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4291 on: January 10, 2018, 02:09:48 PM »
Nothing new yet, but I'm gearing up for a weekend of wedding planning with my mom and sister.  Sister has already bitched a bit about the way we're planning things, because we're not having a big fancy venue reception or a ceremony at all, and I wasn't planning on buying a dress.  She insisted that I can't possibly get married in a dress I already have, it somehow "wouldn't be a wedding" unless I buy a traditional wedding gown.  She shut up when I offered to let her pay for it.  Based on my chat with my mom last night, it sounded like she will join the chorus on the dress, but it's possible she is intending to pay for it (she bought my sister's wedding gown, which was never worn as they didn't end up having a public ceremony), in which case I'll let her win.  We're going to be firm about the small private ceremony and restaurant reception, though!  Gotta brace myself for the arguments.

You know you don't have to plan it with them, right? Go ahead if it's important to you, but you can just say 'thanks, but no thanks, we can plan our wedding without your help'.

Panly

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4292 on: January 10, 2018, 02:31:14 PM »
My leech of a FIL moved in with us in August. 
All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because ...

al least one of your (ex-) relatives "got it" ...


zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4293 on: January 10, 2018, 03:05:48 PM »
Nothing new yet, but I'm gearing up for a weekend of wedding planning with my mom and sister.  Sister has already bitched a bit about the way we're planning things, because we're not having a big fancy venue reception or a ceremony at all, and I wasn't planning on buying a dress.  She insisted that I can't possibly get married in a dress I already have, it somehow "wouldn't be a wedding" unless I buy a traditional wedding gown.  She shut up when I offered to let her pay for it.  Based on my chat with my mom last night, it sounded like she will join the chorus on the dress, but it's possible she is intending to pay for it (she bought my sister's wedding gown, which was never worn as they didn't end up having a public ceremony), in which case I'll let her win.  We're going to be firm about the small private ceremony and restaurant reception, though!  Gotta brace myself for the arguments.

You know you don't have to plan it with them, right? Go ahead if it's important to you, but you can just say 'thanks, but no thanks, we can plan our wedding without your help'.
^^^ This.  The simple response is "you got to plan your own wedding the way you wanted.  Please let me plan mine."

Rowellen

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4294 on: January 10, 2018, 05:43:53 PM »
^+1

TGS, this resonates with me on so many levels about my own father. Fantastic post, quite possibly one of the best I’ve read.

Yup, he hit the nail on the head.  You will hear no arguments from me, FIL is spineless and delusional.  He swears when his back gets better that he will get another full time job.  He's 71 and hasn't worked in 4 years...

The ex wife is livid, screaming that he can take it out of his investment accounts (he's got some but not enough to cover his ass for the rest of his life), I point blank told her, Nope...not gonna happen, he's in this situation because of you and your overspending for the past 15 years, you will never see another dime out of him, he needs that money to prepare for his future, of which, you and your wants are no longer a concern.  She started screaming at me on the phone and I said "listen, you and DHS sisters, hoisted him onto us, told us he "was dying" and "needed rescuing" and yet none of you, who LIVED 10 minutes away did a damn thing, Frankly, I think you are an evil bitch, so I don't really care what you want, nor do I care if you despise me.  I have one goal for the next year and that is to get him physically and financially better and out of my damn house.  He will NOT be paying anything that he doesn't absolutely have to, and that list includes paying you".  She hung up on me.  Don't care, it actually felt good getting that off my chest.

FYI, he has a year and a half timeline to clean this all up, then he is out, there is no if ands or buts, we have a signed lease set to terminate.

Awesome. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall to see her face during that phone call.

merula

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4295 on: January 11, 2018, 07:06:24 AM »
^^^ This.  The simple response is "you got to plan your own wedding the way you wanted.  Please let me plan mine."

This can easily backfire, as many women who are now mothers of people who are getting married had their weddings planned by their mothers. If Raenia's grandmother planned her mother's wedding, the mother may have the expectation of more involvement on that basis.

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4296 on: January 11, 2018, 09:47:09 AM »
^+1

TGS, this resonates with me on so many levels about my own father. Fantastic post, quite possibly one of the best I’ve read.

Yup, he hit the nail on the head.  You will hear no arguments from me, FIL is spineless and delusional.  He swears when his back gets better that he will get another full time job.  He's 71 and hasn't worked in 4 years...

The ex wife is livid, screaming that he can take it out of his investment accounts (he's got some but not enough to cover his ass for the rest of his life), I point blank told her, Nope...not gonna happen, he's in this situation because of you and your overspending for the past 15 years, you will never see another dime out of him, he needs that money to prepare for his future, of which, you and your wants are no longer a concern.  She started screaming at me on the phone and I said "listen, you and DHS sisters, hoisted him onto us, told us he "was dying" and "needed rescuing" and yet none of you, who LIVED 10 minutes away did a damn thing, Frankly, I think you are an evil bitch, so I don't really care what you want, nor do I care if you despise me.  I have one goal for the next year and that is to get him physically and financially better and out of my damn house.  He will NOT be paying anything that he doesn't absolutely have to, and that list includes paying you".  She hung up on me.  Don't care, it actually felt good getting that off my chest.

FYI, he has a year and a half timeline to clean this all up, then he is out, there is no if ands or buts, we have a signed lease set to terminate.

Awesome. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall to see her face during that phone call.

I'll bet the air crackled with electricity around the phones during that call. GOOD FOR YOU.

CU Tiger

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4297 on: January 11, 2018, 09:57:15 AM »
All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.

Sounds like your FIL should consider filing for bankruptcy. Really. Stop paying his debts with your money too.

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

i mean of course, he doesn't want things handed to him, such as your money, home or food.

tell him to stay strong in his convictions of independence!

Yup, that's pretty much how DH and I feel.  He's fine so long as I buy his beer, and feed him (PS he's too lazy to even microwave leftovers, and NO I don't do this for him) and harp on him about his bills. But heaven forbid his ex states she wants something...he'll bend over backwards for that one since he's a "man of his word".  Minus the rent he's supposed to pay us and doesn't.

The next time he gives you that “I’m a man of my word” bullshit, there is a calm (and maybe effective?) way to handle that, rather than unloading on him the way I am sure you would like to.

Some backstory. My mother, a devout Christian, had a contractor who was doing some work on her house. This guy was also a very pious Christian, and he and my Mom would have some great discussions about faith, etc. The contractor was a friendly guy and Mom liked him, except for one thing…he was unreliable. He’d tell her he’d be over at X o’clock on Tuesday…and on Tuesday he’d be a no-show. Or he would come hours late, and then decide he didn’t have enough time to get anything done, so he’d leave, telling her he’d be back some other time. You know how annoying it is when they tell you they’ll be there between 11-1 and you rearrange plans to be there and they show up at 4:15…it was getting on Mom’s nerves.

One day, in the middle of a chat, he repeated something he’d said to her before, which was something like, “I think of my work as part of my witness (Evangelical Christian for “how I share with everyone that Jesus is my Savior”). He probably meant the QUALITY of his work, but this gave Mom an opportunity. She told him that when he did not keep his word by showing up WHEN HE SAID HE WOULD, and not calling and letting her know if he was running late…he was providing a piss-poor witness. He was treating his customers rudely and not being a stand-up guy. Okay, I’m sure Mom did not use exactly those words, but she got the point across. Knowing Mom, she also said that she liked him and liked the quality of the work he did (because my Mom is Southern nice) but that this one thing was damaging his idea of his work = his witness.

She said he was at first sort of shocked – because Mom is a soft-spoken, nice-Grandma type woman, and here she was schooling him on something he felt proud of, but then he said he had not considered it in that way before. And here is where the miracle occurred (cue the heavenly harps and the light shining from above) he actually improved on being there when he said he would, or at least being punctilious about calling her and letting her know when arrival times/dates had changed.

Would something like that work on your FIL? The next time he starts on being a man of his word and doing the RIGHT THING, could you reasonably observe that a man of his word would treat the members of his family (his children) with respect and would consider if bankruptcy would make their lives better. Using some of The Grim Squeaker’s arguments about how services/bankruptcy are set up to spread out the financial consequences of his bad situation, rather than dumping it all in your lap, might help.

Or maybe not. Some people are just idiots and you CANNOT TELL THEM ANYTHING. I know some of those people too!

MishMash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4298 on: January 12, 2018, 09:40:40 AM »

Or maybe not. Some people are just idiots and you CANNOT TELL THEM ANYTHING. I know some of those people too!

Yea, I'm going to go with the above.  He's not an idiot, he's a narcissist though that thinks what he knows/believes is correct and everyone else is wrong.  And the he believes the situation he is in is EVERYONE elses fault, not his own.  His big scapegoat for years was Obama and the government screwing with his job prospects.  He fails to see his 1. lack of punctuality 2. inability to listen to his bosses and 3. lack of ability to meet deadlines has cost him every job he's ever had.  Instead he threw money into get rich quick schemes that usually ended up with HUGE  losses (I mean I've seen his tax returns and some folks here could retire just off what he lost over the years).  Top that with a housewife of Orange County and poof he earned roughly 6-7.5 million (he generally averaged 300k/year some higher some lower) in 25 years and have almost nothing left to show for it.

He still doesn't see it as any fault of his own though and I'm not sure how to get it through his head.  I've been blunt but apparently that's not working.

Pioneerw2b

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4299 on: January 12, 2018, 10:31:05 AM »
Got a text from my brother today. He's trying out a meal delivery service, and needed my email to send me a referral code. I look up the meal plan, and it is $10/person, for just dinner! In comparison, we spend about $10/day for the two of us.

His reasoning? $25 off for two weeks is good!

(For fun, I did the math on the cost if I did it with the promo: 2 people * 3 recipes * $10 = $60, and taking the $40 promo off its $20. For 6 people's worth of servings, it would make dinner at $3.33/plate, which would fall in line with our current spending. BUT considering I could only do this once, I think I'll just pass and just continue to not miss something I never had. Also, I would feel guilt about the packaging and waste that goes into those boxes, particularly those freezer bag things.)


I heard a commercial the other day about this.... when I heard the "$10.00 a person" I yelled at the radio, "WHAT ??"  I had 4 children and I am pretty certain I managed to get dinner on the table for less than $10.00 total for 6 people. What am I missing ? Do people really lack meal planning skills ? They are plastered all over Pinterest. Do they lack time to shop for groceries ? What are these busy people's lives so full of that they cannot carve out time to go to the grocery store ? I am not being rhetorical...I really would like to know.