Relatives who just don't get it

[Bicycle_B]

So confusing.  How is getting engaged "abandoning the family"?  Did she assume you'd spend less time with your family of origin?  Or was it something else, like some racial thing against your intended?

[saguaro]

So confusing.  How is getting engaged "abandoning the family"?  Did she assume you'd spend less time with your family of origin?  Or was it something else, like some racial thing against your intended?

This "abandoning the family" bit, it was confusing, still makes no sense to me even now.   I figured that I would always be part of the family no matter what I did in life or wherever I ended up living so I was taken aback at hearing of this. 

I was moving closer to where my husband's family was and that clearly bothered her though it was only an hour away so yes I think she was worried that I would be spending less time with the family.  But I also think there were other fears / insecurities / hangups at play.    Still, I didn't see what the big deal was, how would she cope if I moved states away?  And incidentally another sister did move 1300 miles away years later and she still gets grief about that.

She didn't have anything in particular against my now husband, in fact, he embodied all the things they wanted: same race, religion, similar ethnic background, education (not that I was looking for this, it's just how it worked out) so it wasn't that.  It was that I was leaving home and no, I was not going to move next door so they could continue to keep an eye on me.

[ambimammular]

It was that I was leaving home and no, I was not going to move next door so they could continue to keep an eye on me.

My (high school) best friend's dad bought two lots, one to build his house, and another to put a duplex for his daughters next door. He did not consult either of the daughters. They were both well-established, married with children, adults, with purchased homes of their own. And neither had intentions of sharing walls with each other, or being next door to daddy. Half the time they weren't speaking to each other anyway.

He was willfully oblivious, and now has a Huge yard.

[Imma]

It was that I was leaving home and no, I was not going to move next door so they could continue to keep an eye on me.

My (high school) best friend's dad bought two lots, one to build his house, and another to put a duplex for his daughters next door. He did not consult either of the daughters. They were both well-established, married with children, adults, with purchased homes of their own. And neither had intentions of sharing walls with each other, or being next door to daddy. Half the time they weren't speaking to each other anyway.

He was willfully oblivious, and now has a Huge yard.

I really don't get parents like that. They are not just parents, they were someone's kid too and I'm sure they wouldn't  have wanted to be put in that position by their own parents. I can understand you might want to offer a home like that to your kids first, before offering it to a tenant, but buying an entire lot for the sole purpose of housing adult kids without even consulting them? That's just plain weird.

My own mother, who is single, bought a fairly large house with an annexe in the attic so my brother could live there. He was about 20 when she bought the home and still living at home, so he was pretty happy with it back then. My mum is extremely surprised he's now actively looking for his own flat 3 years later. Why leave if you could live rent-free indefinitely with your mother? They share the front door so I think he feels spied on.

I reminded her that she had been married for years at the age he is now, and certainly wouldn't have wanted to live with her own parents anymore, but to no avail. She's not giving him a hard time leaving, but she is very sad and disappointed an unhappy she now has a big empty house. She's now consoling herself with the idea that if I broke up with my partner, I would be able to move in with her again. This despite the fact that I work 2 hours away from where she lives and I would be able to buy his share of the house and continue to live here on my own, or have him buy my share and buy another place for myself. And we're not actually planning on breaking up, we're planning a wedding right now.

[shelivesthedream]

It was that I was leaving home and no, I was not going to move next door so they could continue to keep an eye on me.

My (high school) best friend's dad bought two lots, one to build his house, and another to put a duplex for his daughters next door. He did not consult either of the daughters. They were both well-established, married with children, adults, with purchased homes of their own. And neither had intentions of sharing walls with each other, or being next door to daddy. Half the time they weren't speaking to each other anyway.

He was willfully oblivious, and now has a Huge yard.

I really don't get parents like that. They are not just parents, they were someone's kid too and I'm sure they wouldn't  have wanted to be put in that position by their own parents. I can understand you might want to offer a home like that to your kids first, before offering it to a tenant, but buying an entire lot for the sole purpose of housing adult kids without even consulting them? That's just plain weird.

...

I know, it's weird, isn't it? My mother moved out of her childhood home ASAP but suddenly when I want to move out it's all "How could you leeeeeeaaaavvveee meeeeeeeeeeeeee???" Um, because that's what children do, Mum. They move out.

[paddedhat]

  It was that I was leaving home and no, I was not going to move next door so they could continue to keep an eye on me.

It can be pretty easy to downplay the behavior of a control freak, with the thought that they are upset since they can, "no longer keep an eye on you". Prior to my MIL deciding to boycott our wedding and cut ties, my now wife had accepted a teaching position an easy commute from her parent's home, and found her first apartment. Her mother was so enraged that she was losing control over her daughter, that she punched and scratched her daughter,  as she tried to prevent her from actually removing her personal property from the house she grew up in. When mom cuts ties, or treats the new spouse as the enemy, IMHO it's all about the fact that they have ceded control to the "enemy" and the societal requirements for the MIL to embrace the spouse as a new family member is just a bridge to far, in their minds. As in, "first this guy announces that he is stealing my daughter, now he thinks I should welcome him into the family! Absolutely not, he is obviously the enemy."

Pretty mentally ill stuff to deal with, but it's a hell of a lot more common than many of us would like to admit.

[RetiredAt63]

  It was that I was leaving home and no, I was not going to move next door so they could continue to keep an eye on me.

It can be pretty easy to downplay the behavior of a control freak, with the thought that they are upset since they can, "no longer keep an eye on you". Prior to my MIL deciding to boycott our wedding and cut ties, my now wife had accepted a teaching position an easy commute from her parent's home, and found her first apartment. Her mother was so enraged that she was losing control over her daughter, that she punched and scratched her daughter,  as she tried to prevent her from actually removing her personal property from the house she grew up in. When mom cuts ties, or treats the new spouse as the enemy, IMHO it's all about the fact that they have ceded control to the "enemy" and the societal requirements for the MIL to embrace the spouse as a new family member is just a bridge to far, in their minds. As in, "first this guy announces that he is stealing my daughter, now he thinks I should welcome him into the family! Absolutely not, he is obviously the enemy."

Pretty mentally ill stuff to deal with, but it's a hell of a lot more common than many of us would like to admit.

Some may be cultural.  I had graduating students turn down good jobs because they were too far from the family home for the graduate to commute, and the graduate would have had to move out and live on her own,  This was just not acceptable to the family and the larger culture.  This never happened to my male students, it was always daughters.  But at least they could leave home by marrying, although the expectation was that they would stay in the general area.

It was very interesting to watch.  I had two distinct groups of students. One group ended up getting jobs all over the place (all over North America, plus a few ended up in South America and Europe), while this group rarely left the Island of Montreal.

[merula]

I really don't get parents like that. They are not just parents, they were someone's kid too and I'm sure they wouldn't  have wanted to be put in that position by their own parents.

Yes, technically, every parent is also someone's child, but it doesn't always work out that way in terms of shared experiences. For example, my maternal grandmother died when my mom was 20, and my family spent most of my childhood living hundreds of miles from the rest of the family. The result is that my mother doesn't really understand her behavior is intrusive or overstepping. She'd love it if her mother could have dropped by unexpectedly, or bought random things for the grandkids, etc.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

It was that I was leaving home and no, I was not going to move next door so they could continue to keep an eye on me.

My (high school) best friend's dad bought two lots, one to build his house, and another to put a duplex for his daughters next door. He did not consult either of the daughters. They were both well-established, married with children, adults, with purchased homes of their own. And neither had intentions of sharing walls with each other, or being next door to daddy. Half the time they weren't speaking to each other anyway.

He was willfully oblivious, and now has a Huge yard.

Then again, if property prices in his area go up, he can always sell the second lot later. The fact it doesn't have a house on it can actually be a selling point for people who want to build in that neighborhood. Meanwhile it'll be easy to keep clean and well maintained, and the property taxes on it wouldn't be as high as if he, say, actually bought the whole duplex.

[Just Joe]

When I was stationed in southern Europe the joke was that if you married a local girl you'd end up living there the rest of your life b/c daughters would not stray far from Mama. And there seemed to be truth to that as I had middle aged civilian coworkers who had settled in that area so their wives could be local to Mama - in many cases the same street as their family. I had a really good friend that did this. There might be an education component to this though. Advanced ed = more willingness to move away from home. 

[paddedhat]

This is still a reality in some ethnic enclaves in the states. I had a coworker who was "relocated" to cover a region that spanned from 80 to 120 miles from his home in an old Italian neighborhood. After a year, or so, I asked if he has found a new place to relocate yet? He then told me that relocating was off the table. He was less important to the wife than the extended family in the neighborhood. He talked to his wife about moving and she said, "have a nice life, don't expect to see the kids again". He told me this was not something unusual about his family but the way it is in that lifestyle. I

[TheGrimSqueaker]

This is still a reality in some ethnic enclaves in the states. I had a coworker who was "relocated" to cover a region that spanned from 80 to 120 miles from his home in an old Italian neighborhood. After a year, or so, I asked if he has found a new place to relocate yet? He then told me that relocating was off the table. He was less important to the wife than the extended family in the neighborhood. He talked to his wife about moving and she said, "have a nice life, don't expect to see the kids again". He told me this was not something unusual about his family but the way it is in that lifestyle. I

The fact that people from such a background were willing to move across an entire ocean to settle in the USA is pretty impressive.

[paddedhat]

This is still a reality in some ethnic enclaves in the states. I had a coworker who was "relocated" to cover a region that spanned from 80 to 120 miles from his home in an old Italian neighborhood. After a year, or so, I asked if he has found a new place to relocate yet? He then told me that relocating was off the table. He was less important to the wife than the extended family in the neighborhood. He talked to his wife about moving and she said, "have a nice life, don't expect to see the kids again". He told me this was not something unusual about his family but the way it is in that lifestyle. I

The fact that people from such a background were willing to move across an entire ocean to settle in the USA is pretty impressive.

Sometimes "willing" does play a part. In 1914 my great great grandfather was sitting in his village in Italy when he got a letter. It was from a villager in his early twenties. He had gone to America, got a job in a coal mine, and bought a shiny new half-double home in town. He now needed a bride from the old country to make his life complete.  The family packed my great grandmother's steamer trunk, bought her a ticket, and sent her to New York. She was in her mid-teens, and she never saw her mom and dad again.

[Inaya]

This is still a reality in some ethnic enclaves in the states. I had a coworker who was "relocated" to cover a region that spanned from 80 to 120 miles from his home in an old Italian neighborhood. After a year, or so, I asked if he has found a new place to relocate yet? He then told me that relocating was off the table. He was less important to the wife than the extended family in the neighborhood. He talked to his wife about moving and she said, "have a nice life, don't expect to see the kids again". He told me this was not something unusual about his family but the way it is in that lifestyle. I

The fact that people from such a background were willing to move across an entire ocean to settle in the USA is pretty impressive.

Sometimes "willing" does play a part. In 1914 my great great grandfather was sitting in his village in Italy when he got a letter. It was from a villager in his early twenties. He had gone to America, got a job in a coal mine, and bought a shiny new half-double home in town. He now needed a bride from the old country to make his life complete.  The family packed my great grandmother's steamer trunk, bought her a ticket, and sent her to New York. She was in her mid-teens, and she never saw her mom and dad again.

Whoa. For a second I thought that said, "...packed my great grandmother in a steamer trunk."

Is it naive to hope she had a better life in America than she would have in the old country?

[pachnik]

This is still a reality in some ethnic enclaves in the states. I had a coworker who was "relocated" to cover a region that spanned from 80 to 120 miles from his home in an old Italian neighborhood. After a year, or so, I asked if he has found a new place to relocate yet? He then told me that relocating was off the table. He was less important to the wife than the extended family in the neighborhood. He talked to his wife about moving and she said, "have a nice life, don't expect to see the kids again". He told me this was not something unusual about his family but the way it is in that lifestyle. I

This reminds me of the story of my great grandfather who traveled from E. Europe to New York City before the first world war.  He was a furrier by trade and made several year-long trips to NYC until WWI started and he couldn't leave his home country.  My greatgrandma wouldn't leave her home village to go with him.  So g.grandpa went alone and worked for a year or so and came back with money to buy more land in their home town.   If great-grandma had been willing, I could have been a New Yorker.  Instead, after a few decades of communism, my dad's side of family decided to get out and so I ended up being born in Canada.   

[saguaro]

It can be pretty easy to downplay the behavior of a control freak, with the thought that they are upset since they can, "no longer keep an eye on you". Prior to my MIL deciding to boycott our wedding and cut ties, my now wife had accepted a teaching position an easy commute from her parent's home, and found her first apartment. Her mother was so enraged that she was losing control over her daughter, that she punched and scratched her daughter,  as she tried to prevent her from actually removing her personal property from the house she grew up in. When mom cuts ties, or treats the new spouse as the enemy, IMHO it's all about the fact that they have ceded control to the "enemy" and the societal requirements for the MIL to embrace the spouse as a new family member is just a bridge to far, in their minds. As in, "first this guy announces that he is stealing my daughter, now he thinks I should welcome him into the family! Absolutely not, he is obviously the enemy."

Pretty mentally ill stuff to deal with, but it's a hell of a lot more common than many of us would like to admit.

Whoa, I am sorry your wife had to deal with that.  Though omit the punching/scratching and cutting ties, what you describe is pretty spot on in my experience.   I totally agree that it's about losing control to this "outsider" who is taking your daughter away and the expectation that same person is supposed to be welcomed into the family.  DH was frankly offended to be considered this way and while he remained pleasant and civil, the attitude has always grated on him. 

This extreme behavior does get downplayed and rationalized rather than seeing it for what it is, though I do understand this can be cultural.  But there is no cultural basis for this in my family, my grandparents did not do this to my parents nor have extended members done same with their grown kids.  And now I have learned that one sister's (the one who moved 1300 miles away btw) marriage is in some trouble and a big part of the problem is issues BIL has with the family as my sister never could maintain strong boundaries (an absolute must IMHO) in spite of the distance.

I reminded her that she had been married for years at the age he is now, and certainly wouldn't have wanted to live with her own parents anymore, but to no avail. She's not giving him a hard time leaving, but she is very sad and disappointed an unhappy she now has a big empty house. She's now consoling herself with the idea that if I broke up with my partner, I would be able to move in with her again. This despite the fact that I work 2 hours away from where she lives and I would be able to buy his share of the house and continue to live here on my own, or have him buy my share and buy another place for myself. And we're not actually planning on breaking up, we're planning a wedding right now. 

First off, congratulations on your upcoming wedding, Imma!   My own mother left home at 20, was married with one child (me) at the same age I left home (23).   Sisters remained in the home until age 31 and 34 respectively, by which time my mom had been married for years and had teenagers!  I couldn't understand how she couldn't contrast her life with ours at all.  I really she think she harbored hope that if there was ever a divorce amongst the three of us, she would be thrilled to have one or more of her little girls back home. 

[paddedhat]

Is it naive to hope she had a better life in America than she would have in the old country?

Overall, I would say, definitely. She avoided two world wars, and lived to be a remarkably healthy 94 YO. He husband died at 40 from black lung, but she continued to raise a huge family and had dozens of grandchildren, and  even more GG and GGG grandchildren.  One really notable thing was that my grandparents (including my grandmother, her daughter) were part of an exodus of my family that largely left the coal fields, and headed for bustling cities in the northeast, starting in the late 1930s.  Sixty-seventy years later there is still a multi-generational family in the old coal town, and generations of those that left, and spread all over the country. Without fail, those that left, and did so three generations ago, have created a collection of children and grandchildren that are exponentially more successful than the ones that stayed behind. This really ties into the current political realities, and the hardest of white, under-educated Trump supporters who still insist in staying in failed industrial regions while waiting for miracles. Places that have been on the downhill slide, in some cases since the mid-twentieth century, but somehow will rise from the wreckage.......................... if only somebody would come to their rescue.

[Linea_Norway]

<...> Sixty-seventy years later there is still a multi-generational family in the old coal town, and generations of those that left, and spread all over the country. Without fail, those that left, and did so three generations ago, have created a collection of children and grandchildren that are exponentially more successful than the ones that stayed behind. This really ties into the current political realities, and the hardest of white, under-educated Trump supporters who still insist in staying in failed industrial regions while waiting for miracles. Places that have been on the downhill slide, in some cases since the mid-twentieth century, but somehow will rise from the wreckage.......................... if only somebody would come to their rescue.

It is indeed into your own hands to a certain degree. You can move around in your own country, and if you are European, in Europe. People in poorer parts of the world do not have that option to cross borders to the same degree, but we understand well that they try.

I also think we shouldn't expect miracles of old industries. Most old things will be replaced by modern alternatives, like wind and solar energy, robots, software. People working in coal, oil, letter posting and some sorts of manual labour, will need to look further than the area where they are born.

[Cassie]

What I found in rural areas is that people are usually not willing to move. When I was a vocational counselor instead of using tests to determine interest, aptitude, etc it was better to pick up the local newspaper ( back in the day) and ask them which jobs they could do.  There would be very little to choose from. We have always moved for work but many people will barely get by becaue they refuse to leave and I just don't get it.

[paddedhat]

What I found in rural areas is that people are usually not willing to move. When I was a vocational counselor instead of using tests to determine interest, aptitude, etc it was better to pick up the local newspaper ( back in the day) and ask them which jobs they could do.  There would be very little to choose from. We have always moved for work but many people will barely get by becaue they refuse to leave and I just don't get it.

I have volunteered on some of the reservations in South Dakota. From that experience, I really got a bit of an understanding of how strong the primal the urge to "stay with what you know" truly is. One area in particular, is home to the poorest county in the states, the poverty is grinding and lives are often hard and short. The fact that there is little chance for success unless you GTFO,  isn't the driver that most successful folks assume that it should be. 

[marielle]

What I found in rural areas is that people are usually not willing to move. When I was a vocational counselor instead of using tests to determine interest, aptitude, etc it was better to pick up the local newspaper ( back in the day) and ask them which jobs they could do.  There would be very little to choose from. We have always moved for work but many people will barely get by becaue they refuse to leave and I just don't get it.

I have volunteered on some of the reservations in South Dakota. From that experience, I really got a bit of an understanding of how strong the primal the urge to "stay with what you know" truly is. One area in particular, is home to the poorest county in the states, the poverty is grinding and lives are often hard and short. The fact that there is little chance for success unless you GTFO,  isn't the driver that most successful folks assume that it should be.

Yep, I see this mentality at work too. I work in a pretty rural and poor area, though it's not far from a largish city. I think some of it is assuming that you're not smart enough/not good enough to be one of "those" city-dwellers or someone to go to university. I never mention that I went to university because it's really awkward. People think I'm a genius and I have to explain to them that I'm not but they think it's ridiculous. Also, family ties people down. Some people literally live next door to family.

They think the exact same thing about us, how in the world could someone just move around and travel so much? That must be exhausting, why would you want to be so far from everyone you know?

It's pretty common to want to stay where you are (whether city or rural), though it's a bit more prevalent in rural areas I think. It's a bit frustrating because my boyfriend also works in the middle of nowhere and he's kind of gotten into this mindset now and thinks that other areas aren't any better or still have racists, etc. And the only way we could move in together is pretty much for both of us to get new jobs but that's not happening anytime soon (despite being together "only" 5 years). /end rant

[kayvent]

This is still a reality in some ethnic enclaves in the states. I had a coworker who was "relocated" to cover a region that spanned from 80 to 120 miles from his home in an old Italian neighborhood. After a year, or so, I asked if he has found a new place to relocate yet? He then told me that relocating was off the table. He was less important to the wife than the extended family in the neighborhood. He talked to his wife about moving and she said, "have a nice life, don't expect to see the kids again". He told me this was not something unusual about his family but the way it is in that lifestyle. I

The fact that people from such a background were willing to move across an entire ocean to settle in the USA is pretty impressive.

Sometimes "willing" does play a part. In 1914 my great great grandfather was sitting in his village in Italy when he got a letter. It was from a villager in his early twenties. He had gone to America, got a job in a coal mine, and bought a shiny new half-double home in town. He now needed a bride from the old country to make his life complete.  The family packed my great grandmother's steamer trunk, bought her a ticket, and sent her to New York. She was in her mid-teens, and she never saw her mom and dad again.

This is pretty similar to my grandfather. He was born in a country that no longer exists and immigrated to Canada. Successful military and business careers. He had a daughter then became a single father. He contacted family in the old country and they found someone in the village. A happy marriage and life followed. When you compare the quality of life in the USA and Canada with our Eurasia and African counterparts, we’re lucky for those bridal travels albeit we can appreciate that some of them were not extremely blessed.

[Rural]

What I found in rural areas is that people are usually not willing to move. When I was a vocational counselor instead of using tests to determine interest, aptitude, etc it was better to pick up the local newspaper ( back in the day) and ask them which jobs they could do.  There would be very little to choose from. We have always moved for work but many people will barely get by becaue they refuse to leave and I just don't get it.

I have volunteered on some of the reservations in South Dakota. From that experience, I really got a bit of an understanding of how strong the primal the urge to "stay with what you know" truly is. One area in particular, is home to the poorest county in the states, the poverty is grinding and lives are often hard and short. The fact that there is little chance for success unless you GTFO,  isn't the driver that most successful folks assume that it should be.

My college has issues meeting expected post-graduation employment percentages because so many of our students get bachelor's degrees but won't move even thirty miles away for work.

[Imma]

What I found in rural areas is that people are usually not willing to move. When I was a vocational counselor instead of using tests to determine interest, aptitude, etc it was better to pick up the local newspaper ( back in the day) and ask them which jobs they could do.  There would be very little to choose from. We have always moved for work but many people will barely get by becaue they refuse to leave and I just don't get it.

I have volunteered on some of the reservations in South Dakota. From that experience, I really got a bit of an understanding of how strong the primal the urge to "stay with what you know" truly is. One area in particular, is home to the poorest county in the states, the poverty is grinding and lives are often hard and short. The fact that there is little chance for success unless you GTFO,  isn't the driver that most successful folks assume that it should be.

My college has issues meeting expected post-graduation employment percentages because so many of our students get bachelor's degrees but won't move even thirty miles away for work.

I'm from a rural area (in western Europe) and I moved about 25 miles away from my home village to the nearest city when I was 20. When I told people, some they reacted as if I told them I was going to move to Canada or something. To this day, many people I know from my home town will expect me to travel to them for their birthdays, weddings and other social obligations but most have never even visited me at home in my new city. I have lived here for almost 7 years now and it's just a straight drive on a highway from there to here, as well as a bus 2 times an hour. 

[TheGrimSqueaker]

What I found in rural areas is that people are usually not willing to move. When I was a vocational counselor instead of using tests to determine interest, aptitude, etc it was better to pick up the local newspaper ( back in the day) and ask them which jobs they could do.  There would be very little to choose from. We have always moved for work but many people will barely get by becaue they refuse to leave and I just don't get it.

I have volunteered on some of the reservations in South Dakota. From that experience, I really got a bit of an understanding of how strong the primal the urge to "stay with what you know" truly is. One area in particular, is home to the poorest county in the states, the poverty is grinding and lives are often hard and short. The fact that there is little chance for success unless you GTFO,  isn't the driver that most successful folks assume that it should be.

My college has issues meeting expected post-graduation employment percentages because so many of our students get bachelor's degrees but won't move even thirty miles away for work.

I'm from a rural area (in western Europe) and I moved about 25 miles away from my home village to the nearest city when I was 20. When I told people, some they reacted as if I told them I was going to move to Canada or something. To this day, many people I know from my home town will expect me to travel to them for their birthdays, weddings and other social obligations but most have never even visited me at home in my new city. I have lived here for almost 7 years now and it's just a straight drive on a highway from there to here, as well as a bus 2 times an hour.

That was my mother's experience too, although she lived in Canada. She moved away from the rural area to the nearest large city, which was about a 1-hour drive away. To this day her brothers, sisters, and other relatives act like it's a gigantic imposition to come and visit for any reason. She will constantly "slip out" to the country (and acted for years as though it was no big deal) to drop off baking or to visit someone, and there are some relatives she visits that way every month or two. She tends to do those things in batches and just make a day of it. I suppose she goes out once or twice a week-- more often when there's something difficult to be done like helping to move a great-aunt into a nursing home. When I was a kid, we were out there every weekend. But the visits are almost never reciprocated because everyone's "too busy" having coffee or going to lunch two to three times a day, going back and forth visiting each other, or planning for a special event. It's possible for them to come into town several times a month to visit Costco, attend a fine arts performance or a children's sporting event, or go shopping in a mall only two miles away from where my parents live, but working a visit into the errand is Just Too Hard.

It's not the logistics. It's the value system.

[paddedhat]

Relocating is clearly a case study in odd human behavior. When the wife and I got married, we found a rural mountain area that was roughly equidistant to our jobs. I headed 30-40 miles south every day, she went 27 miles in the other direction. Over the next 25 years, our mountain area was over-run with ultra-commuters, who fled NYC to be 100 miles away from the city. Our county was heading for quadrupling it's population when the recession hit.  During that entire time, the southern metro area I worked in was seeing serious inflation in housing costs, and overall unaffordability, which was the very reason that the NYC crowd was migrating. The odd part is that the number of people migrating north for a better life, 45 minutes to an hour away, seemed negligible.

 At one point, a few years back, a lot of the local movers and shakers in my mountain community were all excited, since a long anticipated highway connection was going to be completed, cutting 20-25 minutes off the commune times to the south. Several told me that this was the break they were waiting for, since now the great migration from the south would finally begin. (This logic ignored that limited access, high speed, highways have connected the two areas for 50-60 years, and there has long been availability of desirable things like cheap land, good schools, recreation, and a low cost of living) I explained to a couple of these folks that "logically" their thought process was correct. Land was a small fraction of the cost, existing single family homes were dramatically more affordable, and schools were more than acceptable. What they didn't figure in was the intangible, which was something I missed for a long time. Most folks just don't want to move, unless they have no real option. The decades long boom of greater NYC folks relocating, looked huge to us, with ten thousand of them moving in, on a good year. In the big picture, given the population of the NYC region, it was statistically insignificant. When you take that same percentage and apply it to the exponentially smaller metro area south of the mountain, it  means that, at best, a couple of hundred folks might, maybe relocate to the region, in a good year. A very big region, where a few hundred new people blend right in. Which means that, in the end it will all be far from a trend, and actually pretty meaningless. At this point, I called it exactly as it's played out.

[ixtap]

The locals think my parents are crazy for going over the mountain. It takes 30 minutes to get from their town to the city on the other side of the mountain.

[Imma]

Again, not my relatives but relatives of a close friend of mine who have been mentioned earlier in this thread.

The bought a house a few years ago for their only child to live in. It's a big house for a young couple straight out of college without kids in a very good neighbourhood. They have gifted their kid a truckload of money recently, and now their child has decided they need a bigger house in a better neighbourhood, a custom newbuilt home where they can have a family in the future (still no kids as of yet). I asked them what her parents were going to do with the old home now, if they were going to sell or rent it out, because I might know someone looking for a rental in that area. Oh, no, they're not going to do much with it now. They're going to keep it on as a base for when they visit us one weekend a month.

This already sounds a bit silly, why keep a huge house to visit once a month, instead of selling it and renting a hotel room or buying a small apartment, but maybe they don't want the hassle of selling and moving. Then I remember the parents live an hour's drive away and are still healthy and working. So they keep a 4 bedroom, at least 350-400k house in a desirable neighbourhood, with two gardens to maintain, so they can visit their adult child for one weekend a month, so they don't have to drive for one hour. It's a very easy drive as well, just one highway connecting the two places. Even if you have all the money in the world, why would you want to pay a cleaner, gardener, utility bills and local taxes to avoid a short drive? I think you can rent a pretty fancy hotel room once a month for all that money.

[Shivan]

My dad drives to the dentist. His house is 1/7 of a mile (220 meters) away from the dentist's office.

[ixtap]

My dad drives to the dentist. His house is 1/7 of a mile (220 meters) away from the dentist's office.

My car is further away than that from my home.

[AlanStache]

My dad drives to the dentist. His house is 1/7 of a mile (220 meters) away from the dentist's office.

Is your dad Harris Telemacher?

[mustachepungoeshere]

My dad drives to the dentist. His house is 1/7 of a mile (220 meters) away from the dentist's office.

My car is further away than that from my home.

Love it!

[kayvent]

My dad drives to the dentist. His house is 1/7 of a mile (220 meters) away from the dentist's office.

Is traffic and the dentist’s parking that good that driving is faster?

[marielle]

I used to live in an apartment where it was a <10 minute walk door to door. I had a classmate that would drive from the same apartment. I'm 95% sure driving took longer. Also, parking passes were $450.

[Just Joe]

Got my big dose of holiday cable TV watching during our Thanksgiving visit to out of town relatives.

The volume of advertising seems to have gone way up.

Also it struck me how "Reality TV" seems to be all about spending money. Customize your house, wardrobe, car, RV, whatever. Vacation! Shopping! wired just like smartphone and social media triggers that dopamine release every so often.

Otherwise easiest holiday in years. No drama.

[emduck]

Got my big dose of holiday cable TV watching during our Thanksgiving visit to out of town relatives.

The volume of advertising seems to have gone way up.

Also it struck me how "Reality TV" seems to be all about spending money. Customize your house, wardrobe, car, RV, whatever. Vacation! Shopping! wired just like smartphone and social media triggers that dopamine release every so often.

Otherwise easiest holiday in years. No drama.

Maybe it was because the "regulars" were on vacation, but there were even infomercials on the news.  The news!  Including this one super long one about buying a mansion in Arizona or something.

I can't say mine was dramaless, but there was less political ranting from my father than expected. 

[Just Joe]

Hear! Hear!

Most of our extended family are Trump supporters. Maybe they are less enthusiastic about his team this year? Not a single mention of him.

The few non-Trump supporters universally and discretely had the "can you believe the news lately" attitude.

Did witness some Black Friday shopping planning. People buying things I remember them buying just a few years ago. Expensive things that made me wonder if the new thing would be any better than the old version. Same people complaining about money from time to time.

Why not buy something of good quality, take care of it and get a decade or more from it?

[mustachepungoeshere]

... People buying things I remember them buying just a few years ago. Expensive things that made me wonder if the new thing would be any better than the old version. Same people complaining about money from time to time.

Why not buy something of good quality, take care of it and get a decade or more from it?

I have an associate (former friend who I no longer have much to do with but still observe the drama from a distance) who is like this at tax time every year.

Brags on Facebook (and previously to me personally) about "needing" to buy a new TV, HDD, digital camera and laptop for him and/or his wife. Every year.

This is someone who grew up in a housing commission estate in a poor area, then suffered with unemployment due to illness as a young adult, so I think when he finally got full-time work and started making decent money he went a bit overboard with spending.

But he's over 60 now, doesn't have kids, lives in an affordable area, and still has a mortgage because he spends every dollar on toys.

[marielle]

Man, this week I really regretted not overnighting my shiny new Chase Sapphire Reserve card before the holidays. My (future) in-laws spent over $2k on black Friday. That would have been a sizable dent in my minimum spend if they gave me cash for all those purchases. To be fair though, $1500 of that was for some golf clubs that will probably never be replaced again. I'm not judging (too) much...
Edit: I also got the CSP on the same day, so I have to spend $8k in 3 months which makes this a little harder without some manufactured spending.

Retirement came up as a topic a couple times. SIL quoted one of her professors that said you need $4-8 million for retirement because of how many people go bankrupt from medical bills. I should have asked her how much she's saving to reach that number...

Also, according to the in-laws, being a millionaire means nothing and they reached that number a "long time ago". They're not planning on retiring any time soon because of healthcare costs, supposedly. It has nothing to do with the beach house they just built or the next house they've mentioned buying in an unknown location. Or the two SUVs they drive.

[RWD]

Got my big dose of holiday cable TV watching during our Thanksgiving visit to out of town relatives.

The volume of advertising seems to have gone way up.

Thanksgiving was at our place this year so we were spared having the TV on non-stop, never muted. However the in-laws have figured out how to watch sports on their iPads... I'll never understand why football is so important that you can't even go four days without it on a holiday break with family.

Even the online app version of TV has advertisements and the in-laws were complaining about certain ones that come up all the time. It didn't occur to them that they could at least mute the ads. Nor did they do so after I suggested it...

[kaypinkHH]

Living with my in-laws the past month or so, I have NO IDEA why people love to have the TV on from dawn until dusk. Currently we are watching all the crappy Christmas movies. Back when we cut cable in 2014, Mr.HH was more hesitant than me...but now after living with crappy tv again he has 0 regrets!

(We still watch a ton of netflix and youtube videos, but it isn't 24/7)

[Imma]

Living with my in-laws the past month or so, I have NO IDEA why people love to have the TV on from dawn until dusk. Currently we are watching all the crappy Christmas movies. Back when we cut cable in 2014, Mr.HH was more hesitant than me...but now after living with crappy tv again he has 0 regrets!

(We still watch a ton of netflix and youtube videos, but it isn't 24/7)

Some people hate the silence so much they'll take any kind of noise just to not have silence. I have a coworker who goes half crazy when the radio doesn't work. Good friends of ours have cartoons on 24/7. They were away for a weekend a while ago and I watched their toddler. First thing he does in the morning is to go up to the TV to turn it on. Kid can't even talk yet. I tried to turn it off and keep it off for a few hours, but it unsettled him so much I eventually turned it on. It's not like they're actually watching it, it's just background noise.

[kelvin]

Man, this week I really regretted not overnighting my shiny new Chase Sapphire Reserve card before the holidays.

Edit: I also got the CSP on the same day, so I have to spend $8k in 3 months which makes this a little harder without some manufactured spending.

Anyone with this problem is welcome to make a donation to my student loans! [/sarcasm]

Seriously tho, most charities take credit card, and it might be worth a tax write-off where you live.

[marielle]

Man, this week I really regretted not overnighting my shiny new Chase Sapphire Reserve card before the holidays.

Edit: I also got the CSP on the same day, so I have to spend $8k in 3 months which makes this a little harder without some manufactured spending.

Anyone with this problem is welcome to make a donation to my student loans! [/sarcasm]

Seriously tho, most charities take credit card, and it might be worth a tax write-off where you live.

Can you make a student loan payment with a credit card? I'm pretty sure I can't on mine.

I would have to donate a lot to be able to write off more than the standard deduction of $6k. I don't have a mortgage or anything else major to write off on my taxes. I will donate a decent amount of the minimum spend just through the monthly donations I already have set up.

[ysette9]

I don’t understand the television as background noise thing. I find it incredibly stressful to have that noise going. When I visited my SIL and they had the television going all the time I found myself hiding in the guest room to escape it.

[pachnik]

I don’t understand the television as background noise thing. I find it incredibly stressful to have that noise going. When I visited my SIL and they had the television going all the time I found myself hiding in the guest room to escape it.

+1  I find it an odd thing to do too.  If we aren't watching the tv, we just shut it off. 

[marielle]

I don’t understand the television as background noise thing. I find it incredibly stressful to have that noise going. When I visited my SIL and they had the television going all the time I found myself hiding in the guest room to escape it.

+1  I find it an odd thing to do too.  If we aren't watching the tv, we just shut it off.

+2 Yep, noticed this with my in-laws too. They had the huge TV on all day, but at least sometimes muted. I wasn't going to bring up how the 60+ inch TV is an energy hog but it's all I could think about. They also tried to turn on some random crap on cable after spending 10 minutes looking for something that was the least shitty. Boyfriend and I just went to bed shortly after because we got bored. Sorry, watching mostly ads on TV while everyone flips through their phones or iPads isn't my ideal way of spending time with someone. SIL also flipped out that she was missing part of a football game on Sunday and ran over to turn it on and watch it by herself.

They don't understand how we don't have cable, and tried to prove a point by asking what we do when our friends talk about what's on TV. They uh...don't talk about what's on TV? I also found out Jersey Shore apparently hasn't aired in 10 years because I mentioned it as an example of something I'm not interested in watching or talking about.

Edit: Forgot to mention that they refused to turn on subtitles for me and were rude about it, for a movie they had all seen countless times and insisted I have to watch because I haven't seen it. Sigh. I don't necessarily expect it, but English is my 3rd language and I miss a lot of dialogue.

[Shinplaster]

I don’t understand the television as background noise thing. I find it incredibly stressful to have that noise going. When I visited my SIL and they had the television going all the time I found myself hiding in the guest room to escape it.

Mr. SP fully retired 2 years ago.  I'm pretty much living in our den (with doors!)  to escape the damn TV being on all day.  The same things over, over, and over again.  He promises to turn it off, but like a moth to a flame, half an hour later it's on again. 

I'm slowly losing my mind. 

[DTaggart]

I've never been a fan of TV noise, preferring silence when possible. However lately our neighbors have had large swarms of shrieking children loose in their yards for hours on end, and I'd honestly rather hear non-stop infomercials than screeching spawn, so our tv is on as background noise a lot these days. Pretty sure I'm going to eventually end up a hermit living in a shack in the woods just to get some peace and quiet :)

[TheGrimSqueaker]

One of the things I never got around to acquiring was a TV or a stereo system. Since I have a smaller house and one of those dreadful "open" floor plans I have to use the same space for living that I do for entertaining. I grew up in a culture where, if there was a television in the house at all, it was generally in a different part of the house from where people got together to eat or socialize. I greatly fear that, because of this architectural trend, it's becoming harder to separate dining from electronic activities.

Not having conflicting music or TV sounds makes dinner parties much nicer, because people aren't having to shout over noise to have an intelligent conversation, and people with hearing impairments aren't excluded due to their inability to hear over the din or pick out which of the conflicting speech sounds are coming from the person who's talking. It makes it easy to figure out who's feeling left out or uncomfortable, and to fix that discomfort so that the person feels relaxed and comfortable instead of anxious.

I find that if I can get at least half a dozen guests, we can usually get two to three conversations going at a time around a decent sized table. Nobody's tempted to pull out a phone and people are very seldom in a hurry. Cocktails (not always alcoholic) followed by dinner and then after-dinner drinks (again, not always alcoholic) makes for a nice evening where people actually get to know each other and sometimes form friendships or other attachments that take on a life of their own afterwards.

My Thanksgiving was a blast even though seven of my guests didn't make it. I had a small group, only eight plus myself, but we had a great time and I did the send-a-dish-home-with-everyone thing. The topics of conversation were varied, and although my guests don't self-censor much they tend to find topics unrelated to what's being advertised or discussed on TV. It seems to me that, if people are in the presence of ads or political commentary from an electronic source, they are just as likely to pick up on them as if the ideas were coming from a conversation next to them.