Relatives who just don't get it

[SwordGuy]

...  They come to visit ...

... They have been very cruel to us in our life ...

I commented out the irrelevant bits to the questions I'm about to ask.

Are they still being cruel?   Because if they are, why the HELL are you still letting them come to visit?

I had a great mom until I met the woman I chose to marry.  They she turned into an unmitigated ass.   She was not allowed to visit until she decided she could be civil to my wife.  I didn't visit her until that point in time, either.

My father explained to her that if she didn't change her behavior, they wouldn't have a son anymore.  He was completely right.

I mention my history because I'm not just spouting off suggestions that I haven't painfully lived thru myself.
It's not fun, but it is essential.   

If the cruelty is in the past and all you're now dealing with is stupidity, that's different.

Either way, best of luck in a bad situation.

[paddedhat]

...  They come to visit ...

... They have been very cruel to us in our life ...

I commented out the irrelevant bits to the questions I'm about to ask.

Are they still being cruel?   Because if they are, why the HELL are you still letting them come to visit?

I had a great mom until I met the woman I chose to marry.  They she turned into an unmitigated ass.   She was not allowed to visit until she decided she could be civil to my wife.  I didn't visit her until that point in time, either.

My father explained to her that if she didn't change her behavior, they wouldn't have a son anymore.  He was completely right.

I mention my history because I'm not just spouting off suggestions that I haven't painfully lived thru myself.
It's not fun, but it is essential.   

If the cruelty is in the past and all you're now dealing with is stupidity, that's different.

Either way, best of luck in a bad situation.

Been down this road. In my twenties, the DW and I announce that we are getting married. MIL determines that I am unsuitable husband material, since apparently she was hoping for a surgeon, CEO, astronaut,  or something. Didn't matter that I was already financially stable, responsible and making more than she and her husband ever did. MIL decides to blow her daughter's wedding off, and we don't see her for a few years, until we have our first kid.  By the time our kids are preschoolers, I had so had it with the horrible way the MIL treated them, I put an end to the relationship, and the kids and I skipped dealing with her bullshit, permanently. She  lived another 15 years, and was a nasty bitch 'till the end.

[CindyBS]

On the gift giving to kids theme:

My sister and I have similarly aged kids.  For years we had a system where we bought each other's kids magazine subscriptions - Highlights, High Five, National Geographic Kids, etc.  There are educational magazines starting for around age 3.

It worked out really well b/c the kids were excited to get mail every months long after the excitement of Christmas or B-day's had faded.

 

[TexasStash]

Those of you dealing with in laws who treat you terribly, I'm sorry. That's awful.

[zolotiyeruki]

I had a great mom until I met the woman I chose to marry.  They she turned into an unmitigated ass.   She was not allowed to visit until she decided she could be civil to my wife.  I didn't visit her until that point in time, either.

My father explained to her that if she didn't change her behavior, they wouldn't have a son anymore.  He was completely right.

Did she ever decide to change her behavior?

My sister and I have similarly aged kids.  For years we had a system where we bought each other's kids magazine subscriptions - Highlights, High Five, National Geographic Kids, etc.  There are educational magazines starting for around age 3.

It worked out really well b/c the kids were excited to get mail every months long after the excitement of Christmas or B-day's had faded.

This is a fantastic idea, and one that my parents have done for our kids.  Our kids LOVE Highlights and National Geographic for Kids, and you're right--it's exciting for them to get a new one every month.

[SwordGuy]

I had a great mom until I met the woman I chose to marry.  They she turned into an unmitigated ass.   She was not allowed to visit until she decided she could be civil to my wife.  I didn't visit her until that point in time, either.

My father explained to her that if she didn't change her behavior, they wouldn't have a son anymore.  He was completely right.

Did she ever decide to change her behavior?

She became civil.   That was the best she managed.   To her dying day - and I mean that literally - she did not like my wife.   Absolutely no cause for that, she just got that idea into her head (before she ever met my wife) and wouldn't let go of it.

I have two children from my wife's first marriage.  They are now my kids and they view me as their father.  As far as my mom was concerned, I didn't have any children.   My wife had children, but I didn't, so she showed no interest in them.

Needless to say, family visits were few and brief.

It's a real shame for my mom.   She lost out on a great daughter in law and two great grand kids, plus a son who loved her.   But we can't make choices for other people, and choices do have consequences.

My wife went above and beyond to be nice to my mom, which was very kind and sweet of her to do. 

[accountingteacher]

Helping them is pointless.  They have been very cruel to us in our life and we don't see the point to work hard to just hand them cash for their constant mistakes. 

I finally feel understood!  I bet you have had to face accusations of being cheap, selfish, non-caring and greedy too.

[accountingteacher]

I have generally pretty smart relatives when it comes to finances, so my only complaint is when some of them keep six figure savings in a crappy old traditional savings account making 0.05% interest. Especially while still bringing in high six figure income. Seems like such a waste to keep so much in cash and miss out on this latest market run.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My parents are like that.  Literally millions of dollars in GICs.  They've been mustachian since before it was a thing.  My mom just bragged about getting 2.25% for 18 months.  But, it is their money and they have more than enough to live the way they want to for long beyond their realistic life time, so what business is it of mine?

[accountingteacher]

Those of you dealing with in laws who treat you terribly, I'm sorry. That's awful.

I am honestly so impressed with the # of people who had to draw such extreme boundaries with their families of origin in the best interests of their own spouses and children.  Choosing not to participate in someone else's crazy can be difficult to implement.

[ACyclist]

Helping them is pointless.  They have been very cruel to us in our life and we don't see the point to work hard to just hand them cash for their constant mistakes. 

I finally feel understood!  I bet you have had to face accusations of being cheap, selfish, non-caring and greedy too.

They say things like "It must be nice..."  Like, shaming us for having things, or for being financially secure.  I try to be a duck with water on my back.  They are crazy. 

...  They come to visit ...

... They have been very cruel to us in our life ...

I commented out the irrelevant bits to the questions I'm about to ask.

Are they still being cruel?   Because if they are, why the HELL are you still letting them come to visit?

I had a great mom until I met the woman I chose to marry.  They she turned into an unmitigated ass.   She was not allowed to visit until she decided she could be civil to my wife.  I didn't visit her until that point in time, either.

My father explained to her that if she didn't change her behavior, they wouldn't have a son anymore.  He was completely right.

I mention my history because I'm not just spouting off suggestions that I haven't painfully lived thru myself.
It's not fun, but it is essential.   

If the cruelty is in the past and all you're now dealing with is stupidity, that's different.

Either way, best of luck in a bad situation.

They don't visit.  We moved in to a tiny house that has no accommodations.  Coincidence?  I think not.  :)

We live far enough away to warrant a full blown vacation to visit us.  Plus, there is no place to park their trailer.  Another coincidence. 

When we feel enough guilt, we go down for a brief visit.  Usually, it is nothing more than an afternoon or at worst case scenario an overnight visit.  <shudder>

[Cassie]

I am so sorry for those of you with parent or inlaw problems. I would never ruin the relationship I have with any of my adult children by trying to dictate who they marry, etc.  Adults get to make their own choices.

[Goldielocks]

I am so sorry for those of you with parent or inlaw problems. I would never ruin the relationship I have with any of my adult children by trying to dictate who they marry, etc.  Adults get to make their own choices.

The challenge is figuring out when they are an adult to make their own mistakes / live their own life.   If they are still living in your home, don't have a DL so ask you to drive them places when the bus is inconvenient, and you make  / buy all of their food for them?   (e.g, live at home college student)  are they an adult?

[Cassie]

no they are not.

[Goldielocks]

Good.  Because I don't really think DD's boyfriend is good enough for her... he's nice enough, but needs to grow up more.     So I can be a pain about it as much as I like until she moves out.   

[Gronnie]

Good.  Because I don't really think DD's boyfriend is good enough for her... he's nice enough, but needs to grow up more.     So I can be a pain about it as much as I like until she moves out.

So basically you want to push her towards him more? Sounds like a fantastic plan.

[Goldielocks]

Good.  Because I don't really think DD's boyfriend is good enough for her... he's nice enough, but needs to grow up more.     So I can be a pain about it as much as I like until she moves out.

So basically you want to push her towards him more? Sounds like a fantastic plan.

:-)  Yep.   I would hope that her having to get a job to support him would wear on her nerves a bit, because she is hesitant to get a part time job right now, but I am keeping my boundaries in place for my space. 

[Just Joe]

I had a great mom until I met the woman I chose to marry.  They she turned into an unmitigated ass.   She was not allowed to visit until she decided she could be civil to my wife.  I didn't visit her until that point in time, either.

My father explained to her that if she didn't change her behavior, they wouldn't have a son anymore.  He was completely right.

Did she ever decide to change her behavior?

She became civil.   That was the best she managed.   To her dying day - and I mean that literally - she did not like my wife.   Absolutely no cause for that, she just got that idea into her head (before she ever met my wife) and wouldn't let go of it.

I have two children from my wife's first marriage.  They are now my kids and they view me as their father.  As far as my mom was concerned, I didn't have any children.   My wife had children, but I didn't, so she showed no interest in them.

Needless to say, family visits were few and brief.

It's a real shame for my mom.   She lost out on a great daughter in law and two great grand kids, plus a son who loved her.   But we can't make choices for other people, and choices do have consequences.

My wife went above and beyond to be nice to my mom, which was very kind and sweet of her to do.

At least you came to understand the situation for what it was. For years I had a situation that I thought was a little "off" that I could not put my finger on for a long time. It was simple projection of problems on to other members of the extended family.

Funny (sad) how relatives get stuck in a perception rut. So much happy living to miss.

[paddedhat]

Those of you dealing with in laws who treat you terribly, I'm sorry. That's awful.

I am honestly so impressed with the # of people who had to draw such extreme boundaries with their families of origin in the best interests of their own spouses and children.  Choosing not to participate in someone else's crazy can be difficult to implement.

If anybody is dealing with this issue and on the fence about cutting ties, I can't even begin to express how much better life can be when you remove yourself, and especially your family, from toxic relatives. The MIL I mentioned was a pretty horrible human overall, and due to the strict Catholic beliefs, did not believe in divorce. As a result, she made life hell for her husband, who ended up dying in his mid-fifties. I have no issue with reaching the conclusion that he ( a truly wonderful guy) could of led a long, healthy life if he has just gotten the hell away from her, decades earlier. When the MIL announced that she was boycotting our wedding and cutting ties, I was ready to do back flips of joy. When she wanted a relationship with her grandchildren, and made it clear that she was still the same nasty bitch she had always been, the DW and I knew that she had to be removed from scene. The wife still stayed in contact until her mom passed, many years later, but the kids and I were off limits. We never regretted the choice we made.

The other possibility is that you can try a tough love move to snap somebody out of their behavior. My mother was an extremely high functioning alcoholic. As she got older, and her disease progressed, she was essentially living on white wine
and vitamins. While visiting my family, she started making some really nasty comments that, after she left to return home, caused the wife and I to look at each other and say, "I can't fucking BELIEVE she said that!". After three really nasty shots at the wife and I, over a few months, we just gave her the cold shoulder for a while. About six months later, she jumped on the phone and wanted to confront me as to "what my problem is". I coldly relayed the last several off the charts nasty comments to her, and explained that we were no longer tolerating that kind of abuse in our home. She was stunned to hear that this kind of comment was being attributed to her, and apologized. At that point it was obvious that she was no longer "all there" when it came to being an alcoholic, and really had no idea that such cutting nastiness was freely flowing out of her mouth. She decided that having a relationship was worth it to her, and stopped the nastiness.

[saguaro]

I had a great mom until I met the woman I chose to marry.  They she turned into an unmitigated ass.   She was not allowed to visit until she decided she could be civil to my wife.  I didn't visit her until that point in time, either.

Not as bad as some folks' situation but still somewhat pertinent.  My normally sweet and level headed mom really surprised me when I became engaged.  All of a sudden I saw a bullying, angry, manipulative side of her that really threw me for a loop.   She was generally civil to my husband, but I as well as DH, knew how she felt deep down and behind closed doors, because I witnessed it all during my engagement.  Unfortunately her attitude toward "my abandoning the family" reached to include my dad and sisters and it never really stopped.  Even when I though she was over it, something would happen to remind me that her attitude never really changed.  We did not cut ties as everyone remained civil for the most part, there were no kids for us to worry about, but still things were never the same. 

It's sad because that attitude prevented my DH from really having a closer relationship with his in-laws and impacted my brothers in law as well.   It was not enough to cut ties but it did necessitate some distance, something I never thought I would have to do before I got married.

[Bicycle_B]

So confusing.  How is getting engaged "abandoning the family"?  Did she assume you'd spend less time with your family of origin?  Or was it something else, like some racial thing against your intended?

[saguaro]

So confusing.  How is getting engaged "abandoning the family"?  Did she assume you'd spend less time with your family of origin?  Or was it something else, like some racial thing against your intended?

This "abandoning the family" bit, it was confusing, still makes no sense to me even now.   I figured that I would always be part of the family no matter what I did in life or wherever I ended up living so I was taken aback at hearing of this. 

I was moving closer to where my husband's family was and that clearly bothered her though it was only an hour away so yes I think she was worried that I would be spending less time with the family.  But I also think there were other fears / insecurities / hangups at play.    Still, I didn't see what the big deal was, how would she cope if I moved states away?  And incidentally another sister did move 1300 miles away years later and she still gets grief about that.

She didn't have anything in particular against my now husband, in fact, he embodied all the things they wanted: same race, religion, similar ethnic background, education (not that I was looking for this, it's just how it worked out) so it wasn't that.  It was that I was leaving home and no, I was not going to move next door so they could continue to keep an eye on me.

[ambimammular]

It was that I was leaving home and no, I was not going to move next door so they could continue to keep an eye on me.

My (high school) best friend's dad bought two lots, one to build his house, and another to put a duplex for his daughters next door. He did not consult either of the daughters. They were both well-established, married with children, adults, with purchased homes of their own. And neither had intentions of sharing walls with each other, or being next door to daddy. Half the time they weren't speaking to each other anyway.

He was willfully oblivious, and now has a Huge yard.

[Imma]

It was that I was leaving home and no, I was not going to move next door so they could continue to keep an eye on me.

My (high school) best friend's dad bought two lots, one to build his house, and another to put a duplex for his daughters next door. He did not consult either of the daughters. They were both well-established, married with children, adults, with purchased homes of their own. And neither had intentions of sharing walls with each other, or being next door to daddy. Half the time they weren't speaking to each other anyway.

He was willfully oblivious, and now has a Huge yard.

I really don't get parents like that. They are not just parents, they were someone's kid too and I'm sure they wouldn't  have wanted to be put in that position by their own parents. I can understand you might want to offer a home like that to your kids first, before offering it to a tenant, but buying an entire lot for the sole purpose of housing adult kids without even consulting them? That's just plain weird.

My own mother, who is single, bought a fairly large house with an annexe in the attic so my brother could live there. He was about 20 when she bought the home and still living at home, so he was pretty happy with it back then. My mum is extremely surprised he's now actively looking for his own flat 3 years later. Why leave if you could live rent-free indefinitely with your mother? They share the front door so I think he feels spied on.

I reminded her that she had been married for years at the age he is now, and certainly wouldn't have wanted to live with her own parents anymore, but to no avail. She's not giving him a hard time leaving, but she is very sad and disappointed an unhappy she now has a big empty house. She's now consoling herself with the idea that if I broke up with my partner, I would be able to move in with her again. This despite the fact that I work 2 hours away from where she lives and I would be able to buy his share of the house and continue to live here on my own, or have him buy my share and buy another place for myself. And we're not actually planning on breaking up, we're planning a wedding right now.

[shelivesthedream]

It was that I was leaving home and no, I was not going to move next door so they could continue to keep an eye on me.

My (high school) best friend's dad bought two lots, one to build his house, and another to put a duplex for his daughters next door. He did not consult either of the daughters. They were both well-established, married with children, adults, with purchased homes of their own. And neither had intentions of sharing walls with each other, or being next door to daddy. Half the time they weren't speaking to each other anyway.

He was willfully oblivious, and now has a Huge yard.

I really don't get parents like that. They are not just parents, they were someone's kid too and I'm sure they wouldn't  have wanted to be put in that position by their own parents. I can understand you might want to offer a home like that to your kids first, before offering it to a tenant, but buying an entire lot for the sole purpose of housing adult kids without even consulting them? That's just plain weird.

...

I know, it's weird, isn't it? My mother moved out of her childhood home ASAP but suddenly when I want to move out it's all "How could you leeeeeeaaaavvveee meeeeeeeeeeeeee???" Um, because that's what children do, Mum. They move out.

[paddedhat]

  It was that I was leaving home and no, I was not going to move next door so they could continue to keep an eye on me.

It can be pretty easy to downplay the behavior of a control freak, with the thought that they are upset since they can, "no longer keep an eye on you". Prior to my MIL deciding to boycott our wedding and cut ties, my now wife had accepted a teaching position an easy commute from her parent's home, and found her first apartment. Her mother was so enraged that she was losing control over her daughter, that she punched and scratched her daughter,  as she tried to prevent her from actually removing her personal property from the house she grew up in. When mom cuts ties, or treats the new spouse as the enemy, IMHO it's all about the fact that they have ceded control to the "enemy" and the societal requirements for the MIL to embrace the spouse as a new family member is just a bridge to far, in their minds. As in, "first this guy announces that he is stealing my daughter, now he thinks I should welcome him into the family! Absolutely not, he is obviously the enemy."

Pretty mentally ill stuff to deal with, but it's a hell of a lot more common than many of us would like to admit.

[RetiredAt63]

  It was that I was leaving home and no, I was not going to move next door so they could continue to keep an eye on me.

It can be pretty easy to downplay the behavior of a control freak, with the thought that they are upset since they can, "no longer keep an eye on you". Prior to my MIL deciding to boycott our wedding and cut ties, my now wife had accepted a teaching position an easy commute from her parent's home, and found her first apartment. Her mother was so enraged that she was losing control over her daughter, that she punched and scratched her daughter,  as she tried to prevent her from actually removing her personal property from the house she grew up in. When mom cuts ties, or treats the new spouse as the enemy, IMHO it's all about the fact that they have ceded control to the "enemy" and the societal requirements for the MIL to embrace the spouse as a new family member is just a bridge to far, in their minds. As in, "first this guy announces that he is stealing my daughter, now he thinks I should welcome him into the family! Absolutely not, he is obviously the enemy."

Pretty mentally ill stuff to deal with, but it's a hell of a lot more common than many of us would like to admit.

Some may be cultural.  I had graduating students turn down good jobs because they were too far from the family home for the graduate to commute, and the graduate would have had to move out and live on her own,  This was just not acceptable to the family and the larger culture.  This never happened to my male students, it was always daughters.  But at least they could leave home by marrying, although the expectation was that they would stay in the general area.

It was very interesting to watch.  I had two distinct groups of students. One group ended up getting jobs all over the place (all over North America, plus a few ended up in South America and Europe), while this group rarely left the Island of Montreal.

[merula]

I really don't get parents like that. They are not just parents, they were someone's kid too and I'm sure they wouldn't  have wanted to be put in that position by their own parents.

Yes, technically, every parent is also someone's child, but it doesn't always work out that way in terms of shared experiences. For example, my maternal grandmother died when my mom was 20, and my family spent most of my childhood living hundreds of miles from the rest of the family. The result is that my mother doesn't really understand her behavior is intrusive or overstepping. She'd love it if her mother could have dropped by unexpectedly, or bought random things for the grandkids, etc.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

It was that I was leaving home and no, I was not going to move next door so they could continue to keep an eye on me.

My (high school) best friend's dad bought two lots, one to build his house, and another to put a duplex for his daughters next door. He did not consult either of the daughters. They were both well-established, married with children, adults, with purchased homes of their own. And neither had intentions of sharing walls with each other, or being next door to daddy. Half the time they weren't speaking to each other anyway.

He was willfully oblivious, and now has a Huge yard.

Then again, if property prices in his area go up, he can always sell the second lot later. The fact it doesn't have a house on it can actually be a selling point for people who want to build in that neighborhood. Meanwhile it'll be easy to keep clean and well maintained, and the property taxes on it wouldn't be as high as if he, say, actually bought the whole duplex.

[Just Joe]

When I was stationed in southern Europe the joke was that if you married a local girl you'd end up living there the rest of your life b/c daughters would not stray far from Mama. And there seemed to be truth to that as I had middle aged civilian coworkers who had settled in that area so their wives could be local to Mama - in many cases the same street as their family. I had a really good friend that did this. There might be an education component to this though. Advanced ed = more willingness to move away from home. 

[paddedhat]

This is still a reality in some ethnic enclaves in the states. I had a coworker who was "relocated" to cover a region that spanned from 80 to 120 miles from his home in an old Italian neighborhood. After a year, or so, I asked if he has found a new place to relocate yet? He then told me that relocating was off the table. He was less important to the wife than the extended family in the neighborhood. He talked to his wife about moving and she said, "have a nice life, don't expect to see the kids again". He told me this was not something unusual about his family but the way it is in that lifestyle. I

[TheGrimSqueaker]

This is still a reality in some ethnic enclaves in the states. I had a coworker who was "relocated" to cover a region that spanned from 80 to 120 miles from his home in an old Italian neighborhood. After a year, or so, I asked if he has found a new place to relocate yet? He then told me that relocating was off the table. He was less important to the wife than the extended family in the neighborhood. He talked to his wife about moving and she said, "have a nice life, don't expect to see the kids again". He told me this was not something unusual about his family but the way it is in that lifestyle. I

The fact that people from such a background were willing to move across an entire ocean to settle in the USA is pretty impressive.

[paddedhat]

This is still a reality in some ethnic enclaves in the states. I had a coworker who was "relocated" to cover a region that spanned from 80 to 120 miles from his home in an old Italian neighborhood. After a year, or so, I asked if he has found a new place to relocate yet? He then told me that relocating was off the table. He was less important to the wife than the extended family in the neighborhood. He talked to his wife about moving and she said, "have a nice life, don't expect to see the kids again". He told me this was not something unusual about his family but the way it is in that lifestyle. I

The fact that people from such a background were willing to move across an entire ocean to settle in the USA is pretty impressive.

Sometimes "willing" does play a part. In 1914 my great great grandfather was sitting in his village in Italy when he got a letter. It was from a villager in his early twenties. He had gone to America, got a job in a coal mine, and bought a shiny new half-double home in town. He now needed a bride from the old country to make his life complete.  The family packed my great grandmother's steamer trunk, bought her a ticket, and sent her to New York. She was in her mid-teens, and she never saw her mom and dad again.

[Inaya]

This is still a reality in some ethnic enclaves in the states. I had a coworker who was "relocated" to cover a region that spanned from 80 to 120 miles from his home in an old Italian neighborhood. After a year, or so, I asked if he has found a new place to relocate yet? He then told me that relocating was off the table. He was less important to the wife than the extended family in the neighborhood. He talked to his wife about moving and she said, "have a nice life, don't expect to see the kids again". He told me this was not something unusual about his family but the way it is in that lifestyle. I

The fact that people from such a background were willing to move across an entire ocean to settle in the USA is pretty impressive.

Sometimes "willing" does play a part. In 1914 my great great grandfather was sitting in his village in Italy when he got a letter. It was from a villager in his early twenties. He had gone to America, got a job in a coal mine, and bought a shiny new half-double home in town. He now needed a bride from the old country to make his life complete.  The family packed my great grandmother's steamer trunk, bought her a ticket, and sent her to New York. She was in her mid-teens, and she never saw her mom and dad again.

Whoa. For a second I thought that said, "...packed my great grandmother in a steamer trunk."

Is it naive to hope she had a better life in America than she would have in the old country?

[pachnik]

This is still a reality in some ethnic enclaves in the states. I had a coworker who was "relocated" to cover a region that spanned from 80 to 120 miles from his home in an old Italian neighborhood. After a year, or so, I asked if he has found a new place to relocate yet? He then told me that relocating was off the table. He was less important to the wife than the extended family in the neighborhood. He talked to his wife about moving and she said, "have a nice life, don't expect to see the kids again". He told me this was not something unusual about his family but the way it is in that lifestyle. I

This reminds me of the story of my great grandfather who traveled from E. Europe to New York City before the first world war.  He was a furrier by trade and made several year-long trips to NYC until WWI started and he couldn't leave his home country.  My greatgrandma wouldn't leave her home village to go with him.  So g.grandpa went alone and worked for a year or so and came back with money to buy more land in their home town.   If great-grandma had been willing, I could have been a New Yorker.  Instead, after a few decades of communism, my dad's side of family decided to get out and so I ended up being born in Canada.   

[saguaro]

It can be pretty easy to downplay the behavior of a control freak, with the thought that they are upset since they can, "no longer keep an eye on you". Prior to my MIL deciding to boycott our wedding and cut ties, my now wife had accepted a teaching position an easy commute from her parent's home, and found her first apartment. Her mother was so enraged that she was losing control over her daughter, that she punched and scratched her daughter,  as she tried to prevent her from actually removing her personal property from the house she grew up in. When mom cuts ties, or treats the new spouse as the enemy, IMHO it's all about the fact that they have ceded control to the "enemy" and the societal requirements for the MIL to embrace the spouse as a new family member is just a bridge to far, in their minds. As in, "first this guy announces that he is stealing my daughter, now he thinks I should welcome him into the family! Absolutely not, he is obviously the enemy."

Pretty mentally ill stuff to deal with, but it's a hell of a lot more common than many of us would like to admit.

Whoa, I am sorry your wife had to deal with that.  Though omit the punching/scratching and cutting ties, what you describe is pretty spot on in my experience.   I totally agree that it's about losing control to this "outsider" who is taking your daughter away and the expectation that same person is supposed to be welcomed into the family.  DH was frankly offended to be considered this way and while he remained pleasant and civil, the attitude has always grated on him. 

This extreme behavior does get downplayed and rationalized rather than seeing it for what it is, though I do understand this can be cultural.  But there is no cultural basis for this in my family, my grandparents did not do this to my parents nor have extended members done same with their grown kids.  And now I have learned that one sister's (the one who moved 1300 miles away btw) marriage is in some trouble and a big part of the problem is issues BIL has with the family as my sister never could maintain strong boundaries (an absolute must IMHO) in spite of the distance.

I reminded her that she had been married for years at the age he is now, and certainly wouldn't have wanted to live with her own parents anymore, but to no avail. She's not giving him a hard time leaving, but she is very sad and disappointed an unhappy she now has a big empty house. She's now consoling herself with the idea that if I broke up with my partner, I would be able to move in with her again. This despite the fact that I work 2 hours away from where she lives and I would be able to buy his share of the house and continue to live here on my own, or have him buy my share and buy another place for myself. And we're not actually planning on breaking up, we're planning a wedding right now. 

First off, congratulations on your upcoming wedding, Imma!   My own mother left home at 20, was married with one child (me) at the same age I left home (23).   Sisters remained in the home until age 31 and 34 respectively, by which time my mom had been married for years and had teenagers!  I couldn't understand how she couldn't contrast her life with ours at all.  I really she think she harbored hope that if there was ever a divorce amongst the three of us, she would be thrilled to have one or more of her little girls back home. 

[paddedhat]

Is it naive to hope she had a better life in America than she would have in the old country?

Overall, I would say, definitely. She avoided two world wars, and lived to be a remarkably healthy 94 YO. He husband died at 40 from black lung, but she continued to raise a huge family and had dozens of grandchildren, and  even more GG and GGG grandchildren.  One really notable thing was that my grandparents (including my grandmother, her daughter) were part of an exodus of my family that largely left the coal fields, and headed for bustling cities in the northeast, starting in the late 1930s.  Sixty-seventy years later there is still a multi-generational family in the old coal town, and generations of those that left, and spread all over the country. Without fail, those that left, and did so three generations ago, have created a collection of children and grandchildren that are exponentially more successful than the ones that stayed behind. This really ties into the current political realities, and the hardest of white, under-educated Trump supporters who still insist in staying in failed industrial regions while waiting for miracles. Places that have been on the downhill slide, in some cases since the mid-twentieth century, but somehow will rise from the wreckage.......................... if only somebody would come to their rescue.

[Linea_Norway]

<...> Sixty-seventy years later there is still a multi-generational family in the old coal town, and generations of those that left, and spread all over the country. Without fail, those that left, and did so three generations ago, have created a collection of children and grandchildren that are exponentially more successful than the ones that stayed behind. This really ties into the current political realities, and the hardest of white, under-educated Trump supporters who still insist in staying in failed industrial regions while waiting for miracles. Places that have been on the downhill slide, in some cases since the mid-twentieth century, but somehow will rise from the wreckage.......................... if only somebody would come to their rescue.

It is indeed into your own hands to a certain degree. You can move around in your own country, and if you are European, in Europe. People in poorer parts of the world do not have that option to cross borders to the same degree, but we understand well that they try.

I also think we shouldn't expect miracles of old industries. Most old things will be replaced by modern alternatives, like wind and solar energy, robots, software. People working in coal, oil, letter posting and some sorts of manual labour, will need to look further than the area where they are born.

[Cassie]

What I found in rural areas is that people are usually not willing to move. When I was a vocational counselor instead of using tests to determine interest, aptitude, etc it was better to pick up the local newspaper ( back in the day) and ask them which jobs they could do.  There would be very little to choose from. We have always moved for work but many people will barely get by becaue they refuse to leave and I just don't get it.

[paddedhat]

What I found in rural areas is that people are usually not willing to move. When I was a vocational counselor instead of using tests to determine interest, aptitude, etc it was better to pick up the local newspaper ( back in the day) and ask them which jobs they could do.  There would be very little to choose from. We have always moved for work but many people will barely get by becaue they refuse to leave and I just don't get it.

I have volunteered on some of the reservations in South Dakota. From that experience, I really got a bit of an understanding of how strong the primal the urge to "stay with what you know" truly is. One area in particular, is home to the poorest county in the states, the poverty is grinding and lives are often hard and short. The fact that there is little chance for success unless you GTFO,  isn't the driver that most successful folks assume that it should be. 

[marielle]

What I found in rural areas is that people are usually not willing to move. When I was a vocational counselor instead of using tests to determine interest, aptitude, etc it was better to pick up the local newspaper ( back in the day) and ask them which jobs they could do.  There would be very little to choose from. We have always moved for work but many people will barely get by becaue they refuse to leave and I just don't get it.

I have volunteered on some of the reservations in South Dakota. From that experience, I really got a bit of an understanding of how strong the primal the urge to "stay with what you know" truly is. One area in particular, is home to the poorest county in the states, the poverty is grinding and lives are often hard and short. The fact that there is little chance for success unless you GTFO,  isn't the driver that most successful folks assume that it should be.

Yep, I see this mentality at work too. I work in a pretty rural and poor area, though it's not far from a largish city. I think some of it is assuming that you're not smart enough/not good enough to be one of "those" city-dwellers or someone to go to university. I never mention that I went to university because it's really awkward. People think I'm a genius and I have to explain to them that I'm not but they think it's ridiculous. Also, family ties people down. Some people literally live next door to family.

They think the exact same thing about us, how in the world could someone just move around and travel so much? That must be exhausting, why would you want to be so far from everyone you know?

It's pretty common to want to stay where you are (whether city or rural), though it's a bit more prevalent in rural areas I think. It's a bit frustrating because my boyfriend also works in the middle of nowhere and he's kind of gotten into this mindset now and thinks that other areas aren't any better or still have racists, etc. And the only way we could move in together is pretty much for both of us to get new jobs but that's not happening anytime soon (despite being together "only" 5 years). /end rant

[kayvent]

This is still a reality in some ethnic enclaves in the states. I had a coworker who was "relocated" to cover a region that spanned from 80 to 120 miles from his home in an old Italian neighborhood. After a year, or so, I asked if he has found a new place to relocate yet? He then told me that relocating was off the table. He was less important to the wife than the extended family in the neighborhood. He talked to his wife about moving and she said, "have a nice life, don't expect to see the kids again". He told me this was not something unusual about his family but the way it is in that lifestyle. I

The fact that people from such a background were willing to move across an entire ocean to settle in the USA is pretty impressive.

Sometimes "willing" does play a part. In 1914 my great great grandfather was sitting in his village in Italy when he got a letter. It was from a villager in his early twenties. He had gone to America, got a job in a coal mine, and bought a shiny new half-double home in town. He now needed a bride from the old country to make his life complete.  The family packed my great grandmother's steamer trunk, bought her a ticket, and sent her to New York. She was in her mid-teens, and she never saw her mom and dad again.

This is pretty similar to my grandfather. He was born in a country that no longer exists and immigrated to Canada. Successful military and business careers. He had a daughter then became a single father. He contacted family in the old country and they found someone in the village. A happy marriage and life followed. When you compare the quality of life in the USA and Canada with our Eurasia and African counterparts, we’re lucky for those bridal travels albeit we can appreciate that some of them were not extremely blessed.

[Rural]

What I found in rural areas is that people are usually not willing to move. When I was a vocational counselor instead of using tests to determine interest, aptitude, etc it was better to pick up the local newspaper ( back in the day) and ask them which jobs they could do.  There would be very little to choose from. We have always moved for work but many people will barely get by becaue they refuse to leave and I just don't get it.

I have volunteered on some of the reservations in South Dakota. From that experience, I really got a bit of an understanding of how strong the primal the urge to "stay with what you know" truly is. One area in particular, is home to the poorest county in the states, the poverty is grinding and lives are often hard and short. The fact that there is little chance for success unless you GTFO,  isn't the driver that most successful folks assume that it should be.

My college has issues meeting expected post-graduation employment percentages because so many of our students get bachelor's degrees but won't move even thirty miles away for work.

[Imma]

What I found in rural areas is that people are usually not willing to move. When I was a vocational counselor instead of using tests to determine interest, aptitude, etc it was better to pick up the local newspaper ( back in the day) and ask them which jobs they could do.  There would be very little to choose from. We have always moved for work but many people will barely get by becaue they refuse to leave and I just don't get it.

I have volunteered on some of the reservations in South Dakota. From that experience, I really got a bit of an understanding of how strong the primal the urge to "stay with what you know" truly is. One area in particular, is home to the poorest county in the states, the poverty is grinding and lives are often hard and short. The fact that there is little chance for success unless you GTFO,  isn't the driver that most successful folks assume that it should be.

My college has issues meeting expected post-graduation employment percentages because so many of our students get bachelor's degrees but won't move even thirty miles away for work.

I'm from a rural area (in western Europe) and I moved about 25 miles away from my home village to the nearest city when I was 20. When I told people, some they reacted as if I told them I was going to move to Canada or something. To this day, many people I know from my home town will expect me to travel to them for their birthdays, weddings and other social obligations but most have never even visited me at home in my new city. I have lived here for almost 7 years now and it's just a straight drive on a highway from there to here, as well as a bus 2 times an hour. 

[TheGrimSqueaker]

What I found in rural areas is that people are usually not willing to move. When I was a vocational counselor instead of using tests to determine interest, aptitude, etc it was better to pick up the local newspaper ( back in the day) and ask them which jobs they could do.  There would be very little to choose from. We have always moved for work but many people will barely get by becaue they refuse to leave and I just don't get it.

I have volunteered on some of the reservations in South Dakota. From that experience, I really got a bit of an understanding of how strong the primal the urge to "stay with what you know" truly is. One area in particular, is home to the poorest county in the states, the poverty is grinding and lives are often hard and short. The fact that there is little chance for success unless you GTFO,  isn't the driver that most successful folks assume that it should be.

My college has issues meeting expected post-graduation employment percentages because so many of our students get bachelor's degrees but won't move even thirty miles away for work.

I'm from a rural area (in western Europe) and I moved about 25 miles away from my home village to the nearest city when I was 20. When I told people, some they reacted as if I told them I was going to move to Canada or something. To this day, many people I know from my home town will expect me to travel to them for their birthdays, weddings and other social obligations but most have never even visited me at home in my new city. I have lived here for almost 7 years now and it's just a straight drive on a highway from there to here, as well as a bus 2 times an hour.

That was my mother's experience too, although she lived in Canada. She moved away from the rural area to the nearest large city, which was about a 1-hour drive away. To this day her brothers, sisters, and other relatives act like it's a gigantic imposition to come and visit for any reason. She will constantly "slip out" to the country (and acted for years as though it was no big deal) to drop off baking or to visit someone, and there are some relatives she visits that way every month or two. She tends to do those things in batches and just make a day of it. I suppose she goes out once or twice a week-- more often when there's something difficult to be done like helping to move a great-aunt into a nursing home. When I was a kid, we were out there every weekend. But the visits are almost never reciprocated because everyone's "too busy" having coffee or going to lunch two to three times a day, going back and forth visiting each other, or planning for a special event. It's possible for them to come into town several times a month to visit Costco, attend a fine arts performance or a children's sporting event, or go shopping in a mall only two miles away from where my parents live, but working a visit into the errand is Just Too Hard.

It's not the logistics. It's the value system.

[paddedhat]

Relocating is clearly a case study in odd human behavior. When the wife and I got married, we found a rural mountain area that was roughly equidistant to our jobs. I headed 30-40 miles south every day, she went 27 miles in the other direction. Over the next 25 years, our mountain area was over-run with ultra-commuters, who fled NYC to be 100 miles away from the city. Our county was heading for quadrupling it's population when the recession hit.  During that entire time, the southern metro area I worked in was seeing serious inflation in housing costs, and overall unaffordability, which was the very reason that the NYC crowd was migrating. The odd part is that the number of people migrating north for a better life, 45 minutes to an hour away, seemed negligible.

 At one point, a few years back, a lot of the local movers and shakers in my mountain community were all excited, since a long anticipated highway connection was going to be completed, cutting 20-25 minutes off the commune times to the south. Several told me that this was the break they were waiting for, since now the great migration from the south would finally begin. (This logic ignored that limited access, high speed, highways have connected the two areas for 50-60 years, and there has long been availability of desirable things like cheap land, good schools, recreation, and a low cost of living) I explained to a couple of these folks that "logically" their thought process was correct. Land was a small fraction of the cost, existing single family homes were dramatically more affordable, and schools were more than acceptable. What they didn't figure in was the intangible, which was something I missed for a long time. Most folks just don't want to move, unless they have no real option. The decades long boom of greater NYC folks relocating, looked huge to us, with ten thousand of them moving in, on a good year. In the big picture, given the population of the NYC region, it was statistically insignificant. When you take that same percentage and apply it to the exponentially smaller metro area south of the mountain, it  means that, at best, a couple of hundred folks might, maybe relocate to the region, in a good year. A very big region, where a few hundred new people blend right in. Which means that, in the end it will all be far from a trend, and actually pretty meaningless. At this point, I called it exactly as it's played out.

[ixtap]

The locals think my parents are crazy for going over the mountain. It takes 30 minutes to get from their town to the city on the other side of the mountain.

[Imma]

Again, not my relatives but relatives of a close friend of mine who have been mentioned earlier in this thread.

The bought a house a few years ago for their only child to live in. It's a big house for a young couple straight out of college without kids in a very good neighbourhood. They have gifted their kid a truckload of money recently, and now their child has decided they need a bigger house in a better neighbourhood, a custom newbuilt home where they can have a family in the future (still no kids as of yet). I asked them what her parents were going to do with the old home now, if they were going to sell or rent it out, because I might know someone looking for a rental in that area. Oh, no, they're not going to do much with it now. They're going to keep it on as a base for when they visit us one weekend a month.

This already sounds a bit silly, why keep a huge house to visit once a month, instead of selling it and renting a hotel room or buying a small apartment, but maybe they don't want the hassle of selling and moving. Then I remember the parents live an hour's drive away and are still healthy and working. So they keep a 4 bedroom, at least 350-400k house in a desirable neighbourhood, with two gardens to maintain, so they can visit their adult child for one weekend a month, so they don't have to drive for one hour. It's a very easy drive as well, just one highway connecting the two places. Even if you have all the money in the world, why would you want to pay a cleaner, gardener, utility bills and local taxes to avoid a short drive? I think you can rent a pretty fancy hotel room once a month for all that money.

[Shivan]

My dad drives to the dentist. His house is 1/7 of a mile (220 meters) away from the dentist's office.

[ixtap]

My dad drives to the dentist. His house is 1/7 of a mile (220 meters) away from the dentist's office.

My car is further away than that from my home.

[AlanStache]

My dad drives to the dentist. His house is 1/7 of a mile (220 meters) away from the dentist's office.

Is your dad Harris Telemacher?