Relatives who just don't get it

[AlanStache]

This is only tenuously related to money, but I need to vent about something that should just not be an issue. My husband's family and keys.

I grew up on farm with several buildings (house, sheds), lots of vehicles (parents' cars, my car, paddock basher, quad bikes, tractors, mowers), plus other keys (gates, toolboxes, etc). We each carried our own keys, and all other keys had their own labelled plastic key ring and hung on a key rack in the pantry.

Keys were not a source of stress. They were used and put back where they belong.

My husband's parents and his brother are the black hole of keys.

- They bought a newer house with locks on all the windows. The previous owner left the keys in their respective windows for the sale of the house. In-laws moved in, dumped all keys in one ziplock bag without labelling them, then complained when they had to sort out keys to sell the house.
- FiL borrowed husband's motorbike and lost the key that lives with the bike. Husband had a key on his key ring but he was 4000km away at the time.
- FiL moved BiL's car and managed to lose the key between the front door of the house and the dining table. Five us were going through every inch of the place, turning up all sort of keys but none for the car.
- In-laws travelled overseas and forgot to take keys to get into their own house on their return. Blamed BiL for not being there to let them in.
- FiL lost the key to his own motorbike just before an overnight ride. He couldn't get a new key in time so he basically had to hot wire his own bike after every stop.
- MiL invited her sister to stay and said she could pick up keys from us, but we were away that weekend, so MiL came up with this grand plan for me to leave keys with my doctor or hairdresser.
- BiL lost the only spare set of keys we have to our apartment. He says he gave them to MiL (why he would do that, I have no idea). She says she doesn't have them.

Admittedly FiL is usually to blame because he is just so scatterbrained but the rest of them are in denial.

And on top of the frustration of this happening over and over, they have spent a small fortune getting keys cut and reprogrammed over the years.

So, I'm done. They have lost all key privileges.

You could suggest they get a universal key for all the locks, http://makedeals.online/item_B0758LHKGM.html

[shelivesthedream]

When our child is born I would like to instigate a "books only" present policy. If anyone ever wants to give our child a present, they can give either a book or money. That way my husband and I can choose which toys we would like to have in our house and think are appropriate for our child. However, I don't know how to do this without being either presumptuous or bitchy.

I read a blog once (possibly on www.theminimalistmom.com) where they had a birthday party for their young child and requested either no gifts, a second-hand book or a gold coin. Loved that idea.

Nice! I just don't know when to make The Announcement, though, as we're not having a baby shower and unlikely to have any kind of obviously present-giving event for a while but I want to get in there ASAP and make clear that this is a policy for the child's entire life before people start turning up with stuff. Their sixteenth birthday? Money or book.

A few of my friends have started having babies and I give them an illustrated children's book that my other friend recently had published. Doesn't take up much space, something they can get rid of without it being personalised or anything like that, fairly cheap and supports my illustrator friend.

[kelvin]

Every time my mother comes to visit, she stays with my brother and his girlfriend. "They're such cheapskates!" she whispers to me, as if this is a source of shame.

Brother and GF are living a MMM, almost ERE lifestyle. I've started telling mom "they aren't building a nice house. They're building an investment portfolio." Mom's a teacher, so she doesn't understand their need to build their own pension.

[merula]

When our child is born I would like to instigate a "books only" present policy. If anyone ever wants to give our child a present, they can give either a book or money. That way my husband and I can choose which toys we would like to have in our house and think are appropriate for our child. However, I don't know how to do this without being either presumptuous or bitchy.

I read a blog once (possibly on www.theminimalistmom.com) where they had a birthday party for their young child and requested either no gifts, a second-hand book or a gold coin. Loved that idea.

Nice! I just don't know when to make The Announcement, though, as we're not having a baby shower and unlikely to have any kind of obviously present-giving event for a while but I want to get in there ASAP and make clear that this is a policy for the child's entire life before people start turning up with stuff. Their sixteenth birthday? Money or book.

A few of my friends have started having babies and I give them an illustrated children's book that my other friend recently had published. Doesn't take up much space, something they can get rid of without it being personalised or anything like that, fairly cheap and supports my illustrator friend.

You can make the request at any point. Like, if the subject of baby showers comes up, you can say "we're not having one; if anyone wants to get us something a book would be great, but otherwise we don't need anything else". Or "baby's first Christmas, how exciting!" "Yes, I want to start building up a collection of Christmas and winter themed books, so that's what we're asking for".

But no guarantees it's going to work. My request was far less stringent; all I asked was only one "toy" per gift-giving holiday. Any amount of books, clothing, consumables, etc. was fine. Some people completely ignored me, some tried to justify that "this set of 5 related toys is really just one toy", and some people tried to go all-out to find the most ridiculous things that could still count as "one toy". Like, 100 ball-pit balls. Or a helium tank with 50 balloons.

[frooglepoodle]

When our child is born I would like to instigate a "books only" present policy. If anyone ever wants to give our child a present, they can give either a book or money. That way my husband and I can choose which toys we would like to have in our house and think are appropriate for our child. However, I don't know how to do this without being either presumptuous or bitchy.

I read a blog once (possibly on www.theminimalistmom.com) where they had a birthday party for their young child and requested either no gifts, a second-hand book or a gold coin. Loved that idea.

We asked family to only get our son books for Christmas last year. That sort of backfired, since each person got him 5 or 6 books and now we have more than we know what to do with, despite having left a number of them at Grandma and Grandpa's house. He has 10 or so favorites, and the rest go untouched. I need to remember to take some of them to the Little Free Library.

[shelivesthedream]

When our child is born I would like to instigate a "books only" present policy. If anyone ever wants to give our child a present, they can give either a book or money. That way my husband and I can choose which toys we would like to have in our house and think are appropriate for our child. However, I don't know how to do this without being either presumptuous or bitchy.

I read a blog once (possibly on www.theminimalistmom.com) where they had a birthday party for their young child and requested either no gifts, a second-hand book or a gold coin. Loved that idea.

We asked family to only get our son books for Christmas last year. That sort of backfired, since each person got him 5 or 6 books and now we have more than we know what to do with, despite having left a number of them at Grandma and Grandpa's house. He has 10 or so favorites, and the rest go untouched. I need to remember to take some of them to the Little Free Library.

But if you read a book and you've finished with it, there's no hard feelings about getting rid of it. But how do you decide when you've finished with a toy or a mug or a dress? People get worked up about whether you didn't like it or not. With a book you just say, "I read it, it was great!" And they don't expect you to keep it forever. (Though you can if it was really good!) It's borderline consumable, at least in social terms.

[YogiKitti]

When our child is born I would like to instigate a "books only" present policy. If anyone ever wants to give our child a present, they can give either a book or money. That way my husband and I can choose which toys we would like to have in our house and think are appropriate for our child. However, I don't know how to do this without being either presumptuous or bitchy.

I read a blog once (possibly on www.theminimalistmom.com) where they had a birthday party for their young child and requested either no gifts, a second-hand book or a gold coin. Loved that idea.

We asked family to only get our son books for Christmas last year. That sort of backfired, since each person got him 5 or 6 books and now we have more than we know what to do with, despite having left a number of them at Grandma and Grandpa's house. He has 10 or so favorites, and the rest go untouched. I need to remember to take some of them to the Little Free Library.

But if you read a book and you've finished with it, there's no hard feelings about getting rid of it. But how do you decide when you've finished with a toy or a mug or a dress? People get worked up about whether you didn't like it or not. With a book you just say, "I read it, it was great!" And they don't expect you to keep it forever. (Though you can if it was really good!) It's borderline consumable, at least in social terms.

That's a good idea! I'm many years away from being in that situation, but it's something I've already dreaded. Hopefully I'll be able to remember and instill the book only policy.

[infogoon]

My s/o and I don't normally give gifts to each other, but we're planning on doing it this year. We have a friend over and she's done so much for us, she deserves to be spoiled. I know she loves getting surprise gifts. But we're going to give mostly homemade and/or useful things, not random cheap crap. I've sewed 2 pairs of pyama pants already, only 1 left to do. I have bought some fabrics that she'll like (she's crafty) I've found a recipe for cookies she can eat with all her food allergies, those kind of things.

My wife and I give each other consumable presents -- a bottle of good beer, a jar of those gourmet stuffed olives, that sort of thing. Little luxuries that we won't buy for ourselves the rest of the year.

[Just Joe]

Back on the key losers topic - how many $200 car keyfobs have they lost? I'm talking about the newer cars without a key, just a radio transmitter.

[penguintroopers]

I've also heard that family museum/zoo/aquarium memberships make great fun gifts without being a toy that is cluttered in someones home.

Hubby and I are going to ask my aunt and uncle if that's something their family would be interested in for Christmas (kiddos are between 3 and 7).

[Imma]

When our child is born I would like to instigate a "books only" present policy. If anyone ever wants to give our child a present, they can give either a book or money. That way my husband and I can choose which toys we would like to have in our house and think are appropriate for our child. However, I don't know how to do this without being either presumptuous or bitchy.

I read a blog once (possibly on www.theminimalistmom.com) where they had a birthday party for their young child and requested either no gifts, a second-hand book or a gold coin. Loved that idea.

Nice! I just don't know when to make The Announcement, though, as we're not having a baby shower and unlikely to have any kind of obviously present-giving event for a while but I want to get in there ASAP and make clear that this is a policy for the child's entire life before people start turning up with stuff. Their sixteenth birthday? Money or book.

A few of my friends have started having babies and I give them an illustrated children's book that my other friend recently had published. Doesn't take up much space, something they can get rid of without it being personalised or anything like that, fairly cheap and supports my illustrator friend.

Make the announcement ASAP. And all other child-rearing related announcement. The sooner the better. I'm assuming from your post that you're already expecting (congrats!) and a lot of people start buying shit the minute they know a baby's on the way. You don't want to find someone turning up with a brand new Silver cross pram because their grandchild only deserves the best.

Expect people to protest, but be firm. Enlist your s/o too, tell him to be firm to his relatives. If people turn up with unwanted stuff after you've told them not to, make them take it home. I know that's harsh, but if you don't set firm boundaries things are only going to get worse. You can even put it in the birth announcement that you don't want gifts. Don't say, "no gifts"  or you're going to piss people off, add something sentimental like you don't need material gifts because you've already been blessed beyond belief or the little one is the biggest gift anyone could ever give you. 

[Primm]

When our child is born I would like to instigate a "books only" present policy. If anyone ever wants to give our child a present, they can give either a book or money. That way my husband and I can choose which toys we would like to have in our house and think are appropriate for our child. However, I don't know how to do this without being either presumptuous or bitchy.

I read a blog once (possibly on www.theminimalistmom.com) where they had a birthday party for their young child and requested either no gifts, a second-hand book or a gold coin. Loved that idea.

Nice! I just don't know when to make The Announcement, though, as we're not having a baby shower and unlikely to have any kind of obviously present-giving event for a while but I want to get in there ASAP and make clear that this is a policy for the child's entire life before people start turning up with stuff. Their sixteenth birthday? Money or book.

A few of my friends have started having babies and I give them an illustrated children's book that my other friend recently had published. Doesn't take up much space, something they can get rid of without it being personalised or anything like that, fairly cheap and supports my illustrator friend.

You can make the request at any point. Like, if the subject of baby showers comes up, you can say "we're not having one; if anyone wants to get us something a book would be great, but otherwise we don't need anything else". Or "baby's first Christmas, how exciting!" "Yes, I want to start building up a collection of Christmas and winter themed books, so that's what we're asking for".

But no guarantees it's going to work. My request was far less stringent; all I asked was only one "toy" per gift-giving holiday. Any amount of books, clothing, consumables, etc. was fine. Some people completely ignored me, some tried to justify that "this set of 5 related toys is really just one toy", and some people tried to go all-out to find the most ridiculous things that could still count as "one toy". Like, 100 ball-pit balls. Or a helium tank with 50 balloons.

This. We requested no gifts at our wedding. It was the second marriage for both of us, we had everything we needed, some people were coming from a long way away and we were leaving straight away for a road trip in a two-seater convertible.

Someone gave us a lime tree in a pot. A very large (probably about 5' high) lime tree. Luckily one of my friends noticed and offered to take it home and babysit it while we were away.

[ysette9]

That is just about the most random wedding gift I have ever heard of. I would actually love to take it off of your hands as I am looking to start my backyard orchard, and lime is certainly on the list. :). I love the mental image of a five-foot lime tree in the back of a convertible.

[MgoSam]

Eeesh, a lemon tree? Now you need to watch out for those handsome devils from Shelbyville! They want to marry their cousins and steal your lemon tree!

[merula]

Eeesh, a lemon tree? Now you need to watch out for those handsome devils from Shelbyville! They want to marry their cousins and steal your lemon tree!

[iris lily]

The lemon tree. Reminds me of more than one live plant that was given to me  on the death of my mother, then father. One was a rose bush, in the dead of winter. The giver said she had a hard time finding a rose bush  (no shit?!!!). The other was a long, convoluted series of telephone calls and communications about the gifting of a memorial tree in the local park in memory of my father.

Both transactions just exhausted me. I did not welcome them. People think they have to give something that will enable me to remember my parents because ya know, otherwise, I will forget. Doh. I realize they mean well but please, to some of us, these are not welcome gifts, they are more shit we have to do at a time where we are mentally and ohysically exhausted.

[Cassie]

That sounds horrible IL.

[Nederstash]

This is only tenuously related to money, but I need to vent about something that should just not be an issue. My husband's family and keys.

I grew up on farm with several buildings (house, sheds), lots of vehicles (parents' cars, my car, paddock basher, quad bikes, tractors, mowers), plus other keys (gates, toolboxes, etc). We each carried our own keys, and all other keys had their own labelled plastic key ring and hung on a key rack in the pantry.

Keys were not a source of stress. They were used and put back where they belong.

My husband's parents and his brother are the black hole of keys.

- They bought a newer house with locks on all the windows. The previous owner left the keys in their respective windows for the sale of the house. In-laws moved in, dumped all keys in one ziplock bag without labelling them, then complained when they had to sort out keys to sell the house.
- FiL borrowed husband's motorbike and lost the key that lives with the bike. Husband had a key on his key ring but he was 4000km away at the time.
- FiL moved BiL's car and managed to lose the key between the front door of the house and the dining table. Five us were going through every inch of the place, turning up all sort of keys but none for the car.
- In-laws travelled overseas and forgot to take keys to get into their own house on their return. Blamed BiL for not being there to let them in.
- FiL lost the key to his own motorbike just before an overnight ride. He couldn't get a new key in time so he basically had to hot wire his own bike after every stop.
- MiL invited her sister to stay and said she could pick up keys from us, but we were away that weekend, so MiL came up with this grand plan for me to leave keys with my doctor or hairdresser.
- BiL lost the only spare set of keys we have to our apartment. He says he gave them to MiL (why he would do that, I have no idea). She says she doesn't have them.

Admittedly FiL is usually to blame because he is just so scatterbrained but the rest of them are in denial.

And on top of the frustration of this happening over and over, they have spent a small fortune getting keys cut and reprogrammed over the years.

So, I'm done. They have lost all key privileges.

No shit they’ve lost key privileges! That’d make me lose my mind. I cannot wrap my head around people who are so scattered that they constantly lose keys. One of my good friends is like this. Apparently nearly every time she leaves the house, it’s a hunt for the car keys! I have a key cubby inside my door; the keys go there when I get home. If I go out, they attach to a clip in my purse. Okay, it’s not like I’ve NEVER had to hunt for them, but I can count the number of times on one hand!

The suggestion of coded door locks for them is a really good one. At least it would solve the house problems. They’re probably too old and set in their ways to get their shit together about the other keys, so lather, rinse, repeat I suppose. As long as it’s not your keys getting lost.

They're in their 50s. Not too old, but definitely set in their ways.

To them it's normal.

FiL went through nine phones in five years through various misadventures. He left his wallet on a bench in Hawaii, lost a pannier on a motorbike trip because he forgot to attach it properly, and most recently found a phone near a hotel, went to hand it in at reception, and tried to give them his own phone instead. He is on daily medication and regularly goes away without it. And he once took sleeping tablets instead of NoDoz before a long drive.

Swear to god, it's amazing he's lived this long.

if they ever make a movie about his life, he should be played by Jim Carrey. Leslie Nielsen would've been my first choice but alas.

[Misstachian]

Husband's family member is about to try medical fixes to fertility challenges, which I'm super empathetic about as we faced these as well. (As has been well noted in other threads, yes we know there are other ways to have kids, no adoption and fostering are not cheap, easy, or for everyone at every moment of life.) When I first heard about their plans a few months ago, I suggested she try to save some money then, since I know they live paycheck to paycheck. She said she couldn't, and eating out many nights a week is her great joy. They live their lives very publicly on social media so it's hard to miss just how often they're eating out, etc.

Now it's getting real, though. She freaked out to me about the money when she learned insurance will cover none of it, so I gently noted that even if she wanted to keep eating out, maybe she could try to do that only once or twice a week? Or, since in the last two weeks she has posted about five Target outings for fancy clothes, shoes, and handbags, I suggested trying not to shop for anything but essentials?

No. She said she needs to eat out to be happy and she needs to shop to feel better about her life. At that point I realized I was rather rudely offering advice no one had asked for and stopped, and I guess it's self-aware to an extent that she knows why she spends, but I feel sad for her. She's so stressed, and I know how miserable she feels, but it's hard to hear "having a baby is the most important thing" while also hearing "restaurants and shopping are the most important thing" without wanting to shake her a bit.

[Oatmeal Stout]

I got to hear my father tell my nephew it's disgusting I'm 47 and retired.
He retired at 56 so that's ok.

[Step37]

I got to hear my father tell my nephew it's disgusting I'm 47 and retired.
He retired at 56 so that's ok.

I’m sorry, WHAT? I guess you should just keep working for more, more, MORE than you need. Any chance he was kidding?

[Playing with Fire UK]

I got to hear my father tell my nephew it's disgusting I'm 47 and retired.
He retired at 56 so that's ok.

Sounds like you father is confused about the difference between "it's disgusting" and "I'm envious".

[Miss Piggy]

I got to hear my father tell my nephew it's disgusting I'm 47 and retired.
He retired at 56 so that's ok.

Sounds like you father is confused about the difference between "it's disgusting" and "I'm envious".

Clearly, you are not to be respected. You didn't work nearly as long as he did.

[paddedhat]

Yea, this is a weird hang-up with some people. I retired at 50, and thanks to a lot of help from MMM and related sources, it's a well funded life. I am discrete about all of it, and nobody but the DW or I know more than a little bit of our personal business.  I have occasionally run into everybody from relatives, to total strangers, that have real struggles with processing this concept. When it comes to strangers, it's often in the setting of being around normal retirees and starts with, "you look way too young to retire?". At that point it's a battle between me being evasive, and deflecting some really probing questions, and typically a male "opponent" who doesn't want to let it go until they are satisfied that they are totally up to speed as to how I managed to do something that took them a decade or two longer to accomplish.

I pretty much write it all off as envy.

[saguaro]

Yea, this is a weird hang-up with some people. I retired at 50, and thanks to a lot of help from MMM and related sources, it's a well funded life. I am discrete about all of it, and nobody but the DW or I know more than a little bit of our personal business.  I have occasionally run into everybody from relatives, to total strangers, that have real struggles with processing this concept. When it comes to strangers, it's often in the setting of being around normal retirees and starts with, "you look way too young to retire?". At that point it's a battle between me being evasive, and deflecting some really probing questions, and typically a male "opponent" who doesn't want to let it go until they are satisfied that they are totally up to speed as to how I managed to do something that took them a decade or two longer to accomplish.

I pretty much write it all off as envy.

And it can work in the reverse.   Dh is 62 and still working, which is fine with him.   However his Dad was forced into retirement at 61 (workplace downsizing), a situation he was not happy about.  He frequently quizzes DH on when he will finally retire and seems irked that somehow his son has managed to stay in the workplace longer.   FIL has a competitive streak that comes out in weird ways though to be fair, he's probably still touchy about losing his job even though it's been over 25 years.

[ixtap]

FIL has a competitive streak that comes out in weird ways though to be fair, he's probably still touchy about losing his job even though it's been over 25 years.

This is my FIL. It is crazy to leave a lucrative career AND you have lost the game if you work a day longer than he did.

[Freedomin5]

I think this story fits here.

One of my relatives recently got married. She's used to a...well-funded...lifestyle but married someone from a less well off family. Since she's married now, her parents expect her husband to take care of her material needs. So now her DH has taken on a second job on the weekends making minimum wage because they "don't have enough money". Just to be clear, her DH makes a decent salary at his regular job working for a major corporation, probably somewhat above the median salary.

Relative got pregnant and decided she needed to fly back to her home country to have the baby so that parents' servants could help take care of her and the baby. Her DH didn't have that many vacation days, and so had to miss the birth of his firstborn. He then proceeded to miss the first three months of his child's life because "Canada is too cold" for such a young baby. Though it wouldn't have been much better if mom and baby had moved back. Since he works seven days a week in an attempt to fund their lifestyle, it's not like he would have seen much of the baby.

I think they're now aiming to buy a house...in a very HCOL area of the country.

I try not to ask for updates too often from them because it makes my brain hurt.

[Step37]

I think this story fits here.

One of my relatives recently got married. She's used to a...well-funded...lifestyle but married someone from a less well off family. Since she's married now, her parents expect her husband to take care of her material needs. So now her DH has taken on a second job on the weekends making minimum wage because they "don't have enough money". Just to be clear, her DH makes a decent salary at his regular job working for a major corporation, probably somewhat above the median salary.

Relative got pregnant and decided she needed to fly back to her home country to have the baby so that parents' servants could help take care of her and the baby. Her DH didn't have that many vacation days, and so had to miss the birth of his firstborn. He then proceeded to miss the first three months of his child's life because "Canada is too cold" for such a young baby. Though it wouldn't have been much better if mom and baby had moved back. Since he works seven days a week in an attempt to fund their lifestyle, it's not like he would have seen much of the baby.

I think they're now aiming to buy a house...in a very HCOL area of the country.

I try not to ask for updates too often from them because it makes my brain hurt.

I can see how this would hurt your brain.

It’s amazing that we winter-born Canadians have survived.

[ixtap]

Actually a neighbor, but close enough.

We live on our boat. Even with maintenance, it is a reasonably economical choice in our HCOL. Some of our older neighbors, who live several hours inland, like to go around grumbling about how you have to be a millionaire to own a boat. Well, yes. Your boat is in the same slip and the same age as mine. You should literally be a millionaire to support just your boat in this area if you don't have outside income! When did unemployed not millionaires get to have luxury items like second homes?

[LeRainDrop]

I think this story fits here.

One of my relatives recently got married. She's used to a...well-funded...lifestyle but married someone from a less well off family. Since she's married now, her parents expect her husband to take care of her material needs. So now her DH has taken on a second job on the weekends making minimum wage because they "don't have enough money". Just to be clear, her DH makes a decent salary at his regular job working for a major corporation, probably somewhat above the median salary.

Relative got pregnant and decided she needed to fly back to her home country to have the baby so that parents' servants could help take care of her and the baby. Her DH didn't have that many vacation days, and so had to miss the birth of his firstborn. He then proceeded to miss the first three months of his child's life because "Canada is too cold" for such a young baby. Though it wouldn't have been much better if mom and baby had moved back. Since he works seven days a week in an attempt to fund their lifestyle, it's not like he would have seen much of the baby.

I think they're now aiming to buy a house...in a very HCOL area of the country.

I try not to ask for updates too often from them because it makes my brain hurt.

I can see how this would hurt your brain.

It makes my heart hurt.

[ACyclist]

My in laws drive me crazy.  Spend thrifts.  They come to visit and despite that my MIL has a job at Sam's club, they have to go to our Walmart, because Y'see they have "different stuff" at ours.  Meanwhile, they don't have two nickels to rub together.  Their house doesn't have potable water, cause their well is messed up,  But, they won't fix it, they get water in jugs from their daughter who loves near them.  They shower in disgusting water.  brush with water from a cup.

Helping them is pointless.  They have been very cruel to us in our life and we don't see the point to work hard to just hand them cash for their constant mistakes.  Dad has a hot rod, it's an early model Ford that he dumps so much money in.  It is staggering how much he has spent on garage stuff, and lets his home waste into oblivion.  He has multiple cars in the yard with weeds growing into the frame.  He won't sell them.  Rather let them rot I guess.  if we stepped in to help with the well, I would insist that they sell some of this pointless stuff to offset costs.  It won't happen.  Dad is very selfish and lacks intelligence.  Sad stuff really. 

Our brother is just like him.  Very poor mostly, but wife drives a jag.  You can't make this stuff up, it is so insane.

[SwordGuy]

...  They come to visit ...

... They have been very cruel to us in our life ...

I commented out the irrelevant bits to the questions I'm about to ask.

Are they still being cruel?   Because if they are, why the HELL are you still letting them come to visit?

I had a great mom until I met the woman I chose to marry.  They she turned into an unmitigated ass.   She was not allowed to visit until she decided she could be civil to my wife.  I didn't visit her until that point in time, either.

My father explained to her that if she didn't change her behavior, they wouldn't have a son anymore.  He was completely right.

I mention my history because I'm not just spouting off suggestions that I haven't painfully lived thru myself.
It's not fun, but it is essential.   

If the cruelty is in the past and all you're now dealing with is stupidity, that's different.

Either way, best of luck in a bad situation.

[paddedhat]

...  They come to visit ...

... They have been very cruel to us in our life ...

I commented out the irrelevant bits to the questions I'm about to ask.

Are they still being cruel?   Because if they are, why the HELL are you still letting them come to visit?

I had a great mom until I met the woman I chose to marry.  They she turned into an unmitigated ass.   She was not allowed to visit until she decided she could be civil to my wife.  I didn't visit her until that point in time, either.

My father explained to her that if she didn't change her behavior, they wouldn't have a son anymore.  He was completely right.

I mention my history because I'm not just spouting off suggestions that I haven't painfully lived thru myself.
It's not fun, but it is essential.   

If the cruelty is in the past and all you're now dealing with is stupidity, that's different.

Either way, best of luck in a bad situation.

Been down this road. In my twenties, the DW and I announce that we are getting married. MIL determines that I am unsuitable husband material, since apparently she was hoping for a surgeon, CEO, astronaut,  or something. Didn't matter that I was already financially stable, responsible and making more than she and her husband ever did. MIL decides to blow her daughter's wedding off, and we don't see her for a few years, until we have our first kid.  By the time our kids are preschoolers, I had so had it with the horrible way the MIL treated them, I put an end to the relationship, and the kids and I skipped dealing with her bullshit, permanently. She  lived another 15 years, and was a nasty bitch 'till the end.

[CindyBS]

On the gift giving to kids theme:

My sister and I have similarly aged kids.  For years we had a system where we bought each other's kids magazine subscriptions - Highlights, High Five, National Geographic Kids, etc.  There are educational magazines starting for around age 3.

It worked out really well b/c the kids were excited to get mail every months long after the excitement of Christmas or B-day's had faded.

 

[TexasStash]

Those of you dealing with in laws who treat you terribly, I'm sorry. That's awful.

[zolotiyeruki]

I had a great mom until I met the woman I chose to marry.  They she turned into an unmitigated ass.   She was not allowed to visit until she decided she could be civil to my wife.  I didn't visit her until that point in time, either.

My father explained to her that if she didn't change her behavior, they wouldn't have a son anymore.  He was completely right.

Did she ever decide to change her behavior?

My sister and I have similarly aged kids.  For years we had a system where we bought each other's kids magazine subscriptions - Highlights, High Five, National Geographic Kids, etc.  There are educational magazines starting for around age 3.

It worked out really well b/c the kids were excited to get mail every months long after the excitement of Christmas or B-day's had faded.

This is a fantastic idea, and one that my parents have done for our kids.  Our kids LOVE Highlights and National Geographic for Kids, and you're right--it's exciting for them to get a new one every month.

[SwordGuy]

I had a great mom until I met the woman I chose to marry.  They she turned into an unmitigated ass.   She was not allowed to visit until she decided she could be civil to my wife.  I didn't visit her until that point in time, either.

My father explained to her that if she didn't change her behavior, they wouldn't have a son anymore.  He was completely right.

Did she ever decide to change her behavior?

She became civil.   That was the best she managed.   To her dying day - and I mean that literally - she did not like my wife.   Absolutely no cause for that, she just got that idea into her head (before she ever met my wife) and wouldn't let go of it.

I have two children from my wife's first marriage.  They are now my kids and they view me as their father.  As far as my mom was concerned, I didn't have any children.   My wife had children, but I didn't, so she showed no interest in them.

Needless to say, family visits were few and brief.

It's a real shame for my mom.   She lost out on a great daughter in law and two great grand kids, plus a son who loved her.   But we can't make choices for other people, and choices do have consequences.

My wife went above and beyond to be nice to my mom, which was very kind and sweet of her to do. 

[accountingteacher]

Helping them is pointless.  They have been very cruel to us in our life and we don't see the point to work hard to just hand them cash for their constant mistakes. 

I finally feel understood!  I bet you have had to face accusations of being cheap, selfish, non-caring and greedy too.

[accountingteacher]

I have generally pretty smart relatives when it comes to finances, so my only complaint is when some of them keep six figure savings in a crappy old traditional savings account making 0.05% interest. Especially while still bringing in high six figure income. Seems like such a waste to keep so much in cash and miss out on this latest market run.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My parents are like that.  Literally millions of dollars in GICs.  They've been mustachian since before it was a thing.  My mom just bragged about getting 2.25% for 18 months.  But, it is their money and they have more than enough to live the way they want to for long beyond their realistic life time, so what business is it of mine?

[accountingteacher]

Those of you dealing with in laws who treat you terribly, I'm sorry. That's awful.

I am honestly so impressed with the # of people who had to draw such extreme boundaries with their families of origin in the best interests of their own spouses and children.  Choosing not to participate in someone else's crazy can be difficult to implement.

[ACyclist]

Helping them is pointless.  They have been very cruel to us in our life and we don't see the point to work hard to just hand them cash for their constant mistakes. 

I finally feel understood!  I bet you have had to face accusations of being cheap, selfish, non-caring and greedy too.

They say things like "It must be nice..."  Like, shaming us for having things, or for being financially secure.  I try to be a duck with water on my back.  They are crazy. 

...  They come to visit ...

... They have been very cruel to us in our life ...

I commented out the irrelevant bits to the questions I'm about to ask.

Are they still being cruel?   Because if they are, why the HELL are you still letting them come to visit?

I had a great mom until I met the woman I chose to marry.  They she turned into an unmitigated ass.   She was not allowed to visit until she decided she could be civil to my wife.  I didn't visit her until that point in time, either.

My father explained to her that if she didn't change her behavior, they wouldn't have a son anymore.  He was completely right.

I mention my history because I'm not just spouting off suggestions that I haven't painfully lived thru myself.
It's not fun, but it is essential.   

If the cruelty is in the past and all you're now dealing with is stupidity, that's different.

Either way, best of luck in a bad situation.

They don't visit.  We moved in to a tiny house that has no accommodations.  Coincidence?  I think not.  :)

We live far enough away to warrant a full blown vacation to visit us.  Plus, there is no place to park their trailer.  Another coincidence. 

When we feel enough guilt, we go down for a brief visit.  Usually, it is nothing more than an afternoon or at worst case scenario an overnight visit.  <shudder>

[Cassie]

I am so sorry for those of you with parent or inlaw problems. I would never ruin the relationship I have with any of my adult children by trying to dictate who they marry, etc.  Adults get to make their own choices.

[Goldielocks]

I am so sorry for those of you with parent or inlaw problems. I would never ruin the relationship I have with any of my adult children by trying to dictate who they marry, etc.  Adults get to make their own choices.

The challenge is figuring out when they are an adult to make their own mistakes / live their own life.   If they are still living in your home, don't have a DL so ask you to drive them places when the bus is inconvenient, and you make  / buy all of their food for them?   (e.g, live at home college student)  are they an adult?

[Cassie]

no they are not.

[Goldielocks]

Good.  Because I don't really think DD's boyfriend is good enough for her... he's nice enough, but needs to grow up more.     So I can be a pain about it as much as I like until she moves out.   

[Gronnie]

Good.  Because I don't really think DD's boyfriend is good enough for her... he's nice enough, but needs to grow up more.     So I can be a pain about it as much as I like until she moves out.

So basically you want to push her towards him more? Sounds like a fantastic plan.

[Goldielocks]

Good.  Because I don't really think DD's boyfriend is good enough for her... he's nice enough, but needs to grow up more.     So I can be a pain about it as much as I like until she moves out.

So basically you want to push her towards him more? Sounds like a fantastic plan.

:-)  Yep.   I would hope that her having to get a job to support him would wear on her nerves a bit, because she is hesitant to get a part time job right now, but I am keeping my boundaries in place for my space. 

[Just Joe]

I had a great mom until I met the woman I chose to marry.  They she turned into an unmitigated ass.   She was not allowed to visit until she decided she could be civil to my wife.  I didn't visit her until that point in time, either.

My father explained to her that if she didn't change her behavior, they wouldn't have a son anymore.  He was completely right.

Did she ever decide to change her behavior?

She became civil.   That was the best she managed.   To her dying day - and I mean that literally - she did not like my wife.   Absolutely no cause for that, she just got that idea into her head (before she ever met my wife) and wouldn't let go of it.

I have two children from my wife's first marriage.  They are now my kids and they view me as their father.  As far as my mom was concerned, I didn't have any children.   My wife had children, but I didn't, so she showed no interest in them.

Needless to say, family visits were few and brief.

It's a real shame for my mom.   She lost out on a great daughter in law and two great grand kids, plus a son who loved her.   But we can't make choices for other people, and choices do have consequences.

My wife went above and beyond to be nice to my mom, which was very kind and sweet of her to do.

At least you came to understand the situation for what it was. For years I had a situation that I thought was a little "off" that I could not put my finger on for a long time. It was simple projection of problems on to other members of the extended family.

Funny (sad) how relatives get stuck in a perception rut. So much happy living to miss.

[paddedhat]

Those of you dealing with in laws who treat you terribly, I'm sorry. That's awful.

I am honestly so impressed with the # of people who had to draw such extreme boundaries with their families of origin in the best interests of their own spouses and children.  Choosing not to participate in someone else's crazy can be difficult to implement.

If anybody is dealing with this issue and on the fence about cutting ties, I can't even begin to express how much better life can be when you remove yourself, and especially your family, from toxic relatives. The MIL I mentioned was a pretty horrible human overall, and due to the strict Catholic beliefs, did not believe in divorce. As a result, she made life hell for her husband, who ended up dying in his mid-fifties. I have no issue with reaching the conclusion that he ( a truly wonderful guy) could of led a long, healthy life if he has just gotten the hell away from her, decades earlier. When the MIL announced that she was boycotting our wedding and cutting ties, I was ready to do back flips of joy. When she wanted a relationship with her grandchildren, and made it clear that she was still the same nasty bitch she had always been, the DW and I knew that she had to be removed from scene. The wife still stayed in contact until her mom passed, many years later, but the kids and I were off limits. We never regretted the choice we made.

The other possibility is that you can try a tough love move to snap somebody out of their behavior. My mother was an extremely high functioning alcoholic. As she got older, and her disease progressed, she was essentially living on white wine
and vitamins. While visiting my family, she started making some really nasty comments that, after she left to return home, caused the wife and I to look at each other and say, "I can't fucking BELIEVE she said that!". After three really nasty shots at the wife and I, over a few months, we just gave her the cold shoulder for a while. About six months later, she jumped on the phone and wanted to confront me as to "what my problem is". I coldly relayed the last several off the charts nasty comments to her, and explained that we were no longer tolerating that kind of abuse in our home. She was stunned to hear that this kind of comment was being attributed to her, and apologized. At that point it was obvious that she was no longer "all there" when it came to being an alcoholic, and really had no idea that such cutting nastiness was freely flowing out of her mouth. She decided that having a relationship was worth it to her, and stopped the nastiness.

[saguaro]

I had a great mom until I met the woman I chose to marry.  They she turned into an unmitigated ass.   She was not allowed to visit until she decided she could be civil to my wife.  I didn't visit her until that point in time, either.

Not as bad as some folks' situation but still somewhat pertinent.  My normally sweet and level headed mom really surprised me when I became engaged.  All of a sudden I saw a bullying, angry, manipulative side of her that really threw me for a loop.   She was generally civil to my husband, but I as well as DH, knew how she felt deep down and behind closed doors, because I witnessed it all during my engagement.  Unfortunately her attitude toward "my abandoning the family" reached to include my dad and sisters and it never really stopped.  Even when I though she was over it, something would happen to remind me that her attitude never really changed.  We did not cut ties as everyone remained civil for the most part, there were no kids for us to worry about, but still things were never the same. 

It's sad because that attitude prevented my DH from really having a closer relationship with his in-laws and impacted my brothers in law as well.   It was not enough to cut ties but it did necessitate some distance, something I never thought I would have to do before I got married.