Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 1584522 times)

MrMoogle

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3400 on: July 29, 2017, 05:09:40 AM »
I am not sure complaining about health care costs is political, it is almost become like a greeting.  "How u doin", "Sup?, "g'day mate", "stupid insurance premiums", "howdy there slim", "damn ACA"....   And "THANKS OBAMA" has been an ironic meme for years.
I guess I just don't get why the relative just doesn't get it.  The only thing that made sense was that it was political.

Here's how I'm reading it:
"Relative is living the FIRE dream.  Relative complains about something many other people complain about." 

LeRainDrop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3401 on: July 29, 2017, 01:35:44 PM »
I am not sure complaining about health care costs is political, it is almost become like a greeting.  "How u doin", "Sup?, "g'day mate", "stupid insurance premiums", "howdy there slim", "damn ACA"....   And "THANKS OBAMA" has been an ironic meme for years.
I guess I just don't get why the relative just doesn't get it.  The only thing that made sense was that it was political.

Here's how I'm reading it:
"Relative is living the FIRE dream.  Relative complains about something many other people complain about."

Pretty straightforward: the relative was a highly-paid employee, bought a dream house, bought an RV, yet complains that "there's no way anyone can afford health care."  Well, if he had saved better, or not spent so much on the home and RV, then he would be better able to afford healthcare.

I have a relative who retired early from a relatively high-paying job, built a dream house, bought an RV, and spends most of the year driving around the country in it.

My main interaction is seeing complaints this person posts on the Fox News Facebook feed, complaining that there's no way anyone can afford health insurance. THANKS OBAMA.

fluffmuffin

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3402 on: July 31, 2017, 09:57:39 AM »
Back OT from the healthcare chatter: My future SIL, OMG. I love her, but sometimes I just want to shake her. She's a teacher in a LCOL state, so doesn't have a high income. She's chosen to live by herself for the last three years instead of having a roommate, so she's been putting 50% of her salary towards rent every single month. She uses shopping as entertainment, has like three closets full of clothing, and goes to Marshalls/TJ Maxx every. single. week. She has virtually no savings and could only go on the family vacay this summer because the future in-laws subsidized her flight, which they did not have to do for anyone else, including the brother who's generally accepted to be a wayward fuckup and who only started holding down a full-time job a year ago.

She's moving today and keeps sending me texts about "oh no, I can't believe how much stuff I have to move, this is the worstttt," and she can't afford movers or to rent a truck so she's having to drive her compact car back and forth between her old city and her new city with all of her crap. Hmm, maybe EVERYTHING would be better if you bought less stuff at TJ Maxx?

Props to her, she is moving in with a roommate in her new city. We talked about how cutting her rent by so much would let her start saving, which I was thrilled about. But then she told me the reason why she wants to save: so she can get a place by herself after the school year :( It's just so frustrating. She tells me she's stressed out about money and I wish I could help, but I feel like I've just started making progress with my SO after three years of dating and a full year of cohabitation. I love my future in-laws, but they did not raise their kids with a lot of financial literacy. I don't understand how that happened, since they're so on top of their own finances. My SO says they just never talked about money and that if there was something they wanted, they would just get it. Sigh.

infogoon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3403 on: July 31, 2017, 12:01:42 PM »
Pretty straightforward: the relative was a highly-paid employee, bought a dream house, bought an RV, yet complains that "there's no way anyone can afford health care."  Well, if he had saved better, or not spent so much on the home and RV, then he would be better able to afford healthcare.

Yes, exactly this. Sorry if it was unclear. It's a classic case of "I can't afford to buy necessities now that I've spent all of my money on whims instead!"

Zoot

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3404 on: July 31, 2017, 12:10:10 PM »
She tells me she's stressed out about money and I wish I could help, but I feel like I've just started making progress with my SO after three years of dating and a full year of cohabitation.

These "I'm stressed about money" moments could in the future be your "point of entry" into a conversation about money management. 

An example:  while my husband and I were still in the "friend zone" a number of years ago, he and I were talking about weight, and he said, "I've tried to lose weight, but I just can't seem to do it.  I just don't know how, and I wish I could."  I said, "I've had some success with losing weight in the past--if that's something you'd like to talk about, let me know, and I'll tell you what worked for me."  He responded in the affirmative and I told him about the Weight Watchers program (which had in fact worked very well for me in the past), and he decided to give it a try--and lost about 60 pounds over the next year.

I would never have approached him on that topic if he hadn't expressed the frustration and the desire--and even when I did, I just said that I'd be willing to talk about it if he wanted to.  Money is a similarly sensitive issue--the person you're talking to has to be ready for it, and express a desire for it, or anything you say will fall on deaf ears.

I'd also advise waiting until after the wedding--both because you want to focus on building a household with your fiancÚ(e) first, and because after the wedding you'll officially be "family," which changes the dynamic between you and SIL-to-be a bit.  ;-)

MrMoogle

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3405 on: July 31, 2017, 12:38:48 PM »
Pretty straightforward: the relative was a highly-paid employee, bought a dream house, bought an RV, yet complains that "there's no way anyone can afford health care."  Well, if he had saved better, or not spent so much on the home and RV, then he would be better able to afford healthcare.

Yes, exactly this. Sorry if it was unclear. It's a classic case of "I can't afford to buy necessities now that I've spent all of my money on whims instead!"
Oh ok, I guess I was putting my personal experiences in here.  It sounds a lot like my dad, but his dream house is 1500 sqft.  He retired in 2004, and Obamacare would have really increased his expenses, and it was 5 years away, so nearly impossible to plan for.  He complains about it a lot.  Luckily my mom chose to continue working.

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3406 on: July 31, 2017, 01:04:30 PM »
Pretty straightforward: the relative was a highly-paid employee, bought a dream house, bought an RV, yet complains that "there's no way anyone can afford health care."  Well, if he had saved better, or not spent so much on the home and RV, then he would be better able to afford healthcare.

Yes, exactly this. Sorry if it was unclear. It's a classic case of "I can't afford to buy necessities now that I've spent all of my money on whims instead!"
Oh ok, I guess I was putting my personal experiences in here.  It sounds a lot like my dad, but his dream house is 1500 sqft.  He retired in 2004, and Obamacare would have really increased his expenses, and it was 5 years away, so nearly impossible to plan for.  He complains about it a lot.  Luckily my mom chose to continue working.

Similar to my FIL as well--except in his case, the ACA ripped his business out from under him. He doesn't make much now (1/4 of before the Obama presidency) and thinks he is too old to reinvent himself. In his defense, he has tried a couple of times but has failed. He knew one thing and did it for his whole career, and now it is mostly gone. It is the American dream that pulled up 200 yards short of paradise dock.

That is the point I keep making to my wife--we have no clue what is going to happen, so we better save in case the worst happens. Her dad would have been fine if he saved even 10% more than he was, for his whole career. And by normal standards, he didn't need to--he should have been able to retire very comfortably around 67 years old. But life happened.

It also teaches you that on the political front, sometimes the clearly right and just thing isn't as easy a choice as it seems.

fluffmuffin

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3407 on: July 31, 2017, 02:34:43 PM »
She tells me she's stressed out about money and I wish I could help, but I feel like I've just started making progress with my SO after three years of dating and a full year of cohabitation.

These "I'm stressed about money" moments could in the future be your "point of entry" into a conversation about money management. 

An example:  while my husband and I were still in the "friend zone" a number of years ago, he and I were talking about weight, and he said, "I've tried to lose weight, but I just can't seem to do it.  I just don't know how, and I wish I could."  I said, "I've had some success with losing weight in the past--if that's something you'd like to talk about, let me know, and I'll tell you what worked for me."  He responded in the affirmative and I told him about the Weight Watchers program (which had in fact worked very well for me in the past), and he decided to give it a try--and lost about 60 pounds over the next year.

I would never have approached him on that topic if he hadn't expressed the frustration and the desire--and even when I did, I just said that I'd be willing to talk about it if he wanted to.  Money is a similarly sensitive issue--the person you're talking to has to be ready for it, and express a desire for it, or anything you say will fall on deaf ears.

I'd also advise waiting until after the wedding--both because you want to focus on building a household with your fiancÚ(e) first, and because after the wedding you'll officially be "family," which changes the dynamic between you and SIL-to-be a bit.  ;-)

True...I'm just nervous about rocking the in-law boat, since overall we do all get along really well. Which is why I'm posting about it on an anonymous Internet forum instead of bitching IRL :) My SO can get a little touchy about money (which I'm sure will be getting its own post at some point, although not on this thread), so I try to tread extra super-duper lightly with the future SIL and the rest of the family. It's just tough to watch the future SIL struggle when to me, the solution to so many of her problems seems so clear.

Bicycle_B

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3408 on: July 31, 2017, 03:26:03 PM »
My mom is visiting for a few days to do gardening (long story, but she's happy and I don't mind). She said that after she wins the lottery, she'll convince the guy next door to sell and live there. I don't mind her living next door, but:

1. She'll never win the lottery. They'll be lucky not to be living in poverty, and that'll only happen because of me and my sister.
2. She's well on her way to physical disability.
3. The guy next door is a nice guy, but he's got some mental illness and drinks too much. The house & yard are not maintained. I have no idea what the inside looks like, but based on the house side, it'll need a complete remodel to be livable.
4. Dad has dementia, and he's getting worse.

They will either be living with me, or more likely have a small apartment. And they won't be happy about the apartment, but that's what 30 years of poor financial decisions looks like.

@Sibley, I went through this with my own dad.  Ending up becoming his guardian for 3 years before he passed.  I hope this isn't too far off topic, but the process went incredibly much better because my wise sister baited me into reading a couple books about memory disease and its effects - typical stages, useful responses, etc.  The knowledge transformed a difficult and potentially overwhelming experience into an understandable and manageable one.  There's a lot of knowledge out there.  If you're going to be the responsible one, get ahead of the curve via research.  From my experience, you'll still have to initiate all the solutions, so you need concrete plans prior to the actual problems.  Fwiw, the process also brought us closer, but the knowledge was so important even to that.  Anyway, you're probably on track already, so - best of luck to you!

Sibley

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3409 on: July 31, 2017, 08:45:12 PM »
My mom is visiting for a few days to do gardening (long story, but she's happy and I don't mind). She said that after she wins the lottery, she'll convince the guy next door to sell and live there. I don't mind her living next door, but:

1. She'll never win the lottery. They'll be lucky not to be living in poverty, and that'll only happen because of me and my sister.
2. She's well on her way to physical disability.
3. The guy next door is a nice guy, but he's got some mental illness and drinks too much. The house & yard are not maintained. I have no idea what the inside looks like, but based on the house side, it'll need a complete remodel to be livable.
4. Dad has dementia, and he's getting worse.

They will either be living with me, or more likely have a small apartment. And they won't be happy about the apartment, but that's what 30 years of poor financial decisions looks like.

@Sibley, I went through this with my own dad.  Ending up becoming his guardian for 3 years before he passed.  I hope this isn't too far off topic, but the process went incredibly much better because my wise sister baited me into reading a couple books about memory disease and its effects - typical stages, useful responses, etc.  The knowledge transformed a difficult and potentially overwhelming experience into an understandable and manageable one.  There's a lot of knowledge out there.  If you're going to be the responsible one, get ahead of the curve via research.  From my experience, you'll still have to initiate all the solutions, so you need concrete plans prior to the actual problems.  Fwiw, the process also brought us closer, but the knowledge was so important even to that.  Anyway, you're probably on track already, so - best of luck to you!

Threads go off topic all the time, what's one more?

We are doing a lot of research, and have found a support group as well. We've learned a ton about what the future could be, and have a framework for current as well. Dad has had a problem for a long time, but it's been moving so very slowly that it's only been recently that there's real issues. It is mostly me driving things right now, though with changes in my sister's life she'll be more involved going forward. Mom is day-to-day.

I have financial POA, not invoked yet, but mom has turned to me for help with finances. In their relationship, dad did the planning and mom paid the bills. Mom hasn't been able to pick up the planning, so I've stepped in. My sister has medical POA, and she is much better suited to that role than I. Financially, I'm in better shape. Sister and I are building a structure to deal with what's coming, and it's very interesting how that is coming together.

Managing the dynamic between mom and dad is also very interesting. I say managing, because there are times when we'll step in and tell mom to back off on a topic, or tell dad how to do something (like buy Christmas presents). For example, mom wants dad to bring boxes downstairs from the attic to be gone through. Two issues. One, we're not thrilled with dad going up and down those stairs. Two, dad has lost the ability to determine which box to bring down. So I told mom to back off - he can't do it, and she needs to wait for us. Instead, work on the basement, which is something that she can direct dad on, and also clear space out so that we can bring stuff into the basement from the attic.

The amount of stuff in the attic/basement is another topic entirely.

Abundant life

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3410 on: July 31, 2017, 10:36:55 PM »
Pretty straightforward: the relative was a highly-paid employee, bought a dream house, bought an RV, yet complains that "there's no way anyone can afford health care."  Well, if he had saved better, or not spent so much on the home and RV, then he would be better able to afford healthcare.

Yes, exactly this. Sorry if it was unclear. It's a classic case of "I can't afford to buy necessities now that I've spent all of my money on whims instead!"
Oh ok, I guess I was putting my personal experiences in here.  It sounds a lot like my dad, but his dream house is 1500 sqft.  He retired in 2004, and Obamacare would have really increased his expenses, and it was 5 years away, so nearly impossible to plan for.  He complains about it a lot.  Luckily my mom chose to continue working.

Similar to my FIL as well--except in his case, the ACA ripped his business out from under him. He doesn't make much now (1/4 of before the Obama presidency) and thinks he is too old to reinvent himself. In his defense, he has tried a couple of times but has failed. He knew one thing and did it for his whole career, and now it is mostly gone. It is the American dream that pulled up 200 yards short of paradise dock.

That is the point I keep making to my wife--we have no clue what is going to happen, so we better save in case the worst happens. Her dad would have been fine if he saved even 10% more than he was, for his whole career. And by normal standards, he didn't need to--he should have been able to retire very comfortably around 67 years old. But life happened.

It also teaches you that on the political front, sometimes the clearly right and just thing isn't as easy a choice as it seems.


Well said mtn.

We've had this commercial lately on TV which says it all:

https://mumbrella.com.au/apia-celebrates-wisdom-50s-ad-life-mistakes-young-432842

I think a lot of retirees lose heart when all their careful preparations for retirement are eroded away through circumstances outside their control.

JordanOfGilead

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3411 on: August 01, 2017, 06:00:40 AM »
I am not sure complaining about health care costs is political, it is almost become like a greeting.  "How u doin", "Sup?, "g'day mate", "stupid insurance premiums", "howdy there slim", "damn ACA"....   And "THANKS OBAMA" has been an ironic meme for years.
this gave me a chuckle.

JordanOfGilead

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3412 on: August 01, 2017, 06:07:16 AM »
Back OT from the healthcare chatter: My future SIL, OMG. I love her, but sometimes I just want to shake her. She's a teacher in a LCOL state, so doesn't have a high income. She's chosen to live by herself for the last three years instead of having a roommate, so she's been putting 50% of her salary towards rent every single month. She uses shopping as entertainment, has like three closets full of clothing, and goes to Marshalls/TJ Maxx every. single. week. She has virtually no savings and could only go on the family vacay this summer because the future in-laws subsidized her flight, which they did not have to do for anyone else, including the brother who's generally accepted to be a wayward fuckup and who only started holding down a full-time job a year ago.

She's moving today and keeps sending me texts about "oh no, I can't believe how much stuff I have to move, this is the worstttt," and she can't afford movers or to rent a truck so she's having to drive her compact car back and forth between her old city and her new city with all of her crap. Hmm, maybe EVERYTHING would be better if you bought less stuff at TJ Maxx?

Props to her, she is moving in with a roommate in her new city. We talked about how cutting her rent by so much would let her start saving, which I was thrilled about. But then she told me the reason why she wants to save: so she can get a place by herself after the school year :( It's just so frustrating. She tells me she's stressed out about money and I wish I could help, but I feel like I've just started making progress with my SO after three years of dating and a full year of cohabitation. I love my future in-laws, but they did not raise their kids with a lot of financial literacy. I don't understand how that happened, since they're so on top of their own finances. My SO says they just never talked about money and that if there was something they wanted, they would just get it. Sigh.
I'm in almost the exact same situation. DF has a 16 year old sister whose parents pay for EVERYTHING despite the fact that she has a full-time job and has had one since before last school year let out. The other day I was over there and she walked in with a sugar-filled starbucks drink the size of her head and told her dad that she didn't have any money for gas to get to work. Um ... wut.
Not surprising when you look at the parents though. The father blows money like he has it. He's a smart guy and works in a lucrative field, so I assumed he did ... until I was told that the future MIL was going to need to get a part time job for them to be able to make their car payments since his car allowance (an unusual perk, but roll with it) from his company had been cut off due to budget cuts...

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3413 on: August 01, 2017, 11:21:52 AM »
I am not sure complaining about health care costs is political, it is almost become like a greeting.  "How u doin", "Sup?, "g'day mate", "stupid insurance premiums", "howdy there slim", "damn ACA"....   And "THANKS OBAMA" has been an ironic meme for years.
I guess I just don't get why the relative just doesn't get it.  The only thing that made sense was that it was political.

Here's how I'm reading it:
"Relative is living the FIRE dream.  Relative complains about something many other people complain about."

Pretty straightforward: the relative was a highly-paid employee, bought a dream house, bought an RV, yet complains that "there's no way anyone can afford health care."  Well, if he had saved better, or not spent so much on the home and RV, then he would be better able to afford healthcare.

I have a relative who retired early from a relatively high-paying job, built a dream house, bought an RV, and spends most of the year driving around the country in it.

My main interaction is seeing complaints this person posts on the Fox News Facebook feed, complaining that there's no way anyone can afford health insurance. THANKS OBAMA.
Right.  I think some of the issue here is that highly-paid employee was insulated from the actual cost of healthcare.

A lot of people who are professionals work for companies that subsidize their premiums.  For decades, co-pays were low.  If lucky, they were reasonably healthy until their 50s or 60s and didn't really *need* health care

So now they are retired.  They need more health care.  And it's a sticker shock, because they never really paid much in the first place.

It helps, somewhat, to have a baby, or have a surgery, and look at the total bill before insurance - to get a perspective.  Or do what my company does, which is send me an annual "compensation" summary, of how much I make PLUS the amount they paid towards my (+ my family's) insurance.

iris lily

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3414 on: August 01, 2017, 11:45:42 AM »
I am not sure complaining about health care costs is political, it is almost become like a greeting.  "How u doin", "Sup?, "g'day mate", "stupid insurance premiums", "howdy there slim", "damn ACA"....   And "THANKS OBAMA" has been an ironic meme for years.
I guess I just don't get why the relative just doesn't get it.  The only thing that made sense was that it was political.

Here's how I'm reading it:
"Relative is living the FIRE dream.  Relative complains about something many other people complain about."

Pretty straightforward: the relative was a highly-paid employee, bought a dream house, bought an RV, yet complains that "there's no way anyone can afford health care."  Well, if he had saved better, or not spent so much on the home and RV, then he would be better able to afford healthcare.

I have a relative who retired early from a relatively high-paying job, built a dream house, bought an RV, and spends most of the year driving around the country in it.

My main interaction is seeing complaints this person posts on the Fox News Facebook feed, complaining that there's no way anyone can afford health insurance. THANKS OBAMA.
Right.  I think some of the issue here is that highly-paid employee was insulated from the actual cost of healthcare.

A lot of people who are professionals work for companies that subsidize their premiums.  For decades, co-pays were low.  If lucky, they were reasonably healthy until their 50s or 60s and didn't really *need* health care

So now they are retired.  They need more health care.  And it's a sticker shock, because they never really paid much in the first place.

It helps, somewhat, to have a baby, or have a surgery, and look at the total bill before insurance - to get a perspective.  Or do what my company does, which is send me an annual "compensation" summary, of how much I make PLUS the amount they paid towards my (+ my family's) insurance.
That statement of complete compensation is great. One year, ONE MF year, my employer did that. i clapped, jumped up and down, cheered our HR department on to do it annually, but nope.

I realize it is some work for them to produce this statement, but it is important to know that many employees do not care or remember how much the organization paid for their health care each year. That, plus other costs of employment, was significant. But that said, each year at open enrollment, the cost-per-employee of the health insurance policy was conveyed to employees, so they had a chance to onow then.

Reynold

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3415 on: August 01, 2017, 12:08:32 PM »
I realize it is some work for them to produce this statement, but it is important to know that many employees do not care or remember how much the organization paid for their health care each year. That, plus other costs of employment, was significant. But that said, each year at open enrollment, the cost-per-employee of the health insurance policy was conveyed to employees, so they had a chance to know then.

I didn't learn about how much of the premiums companies picked up until a former employer was researching changing providers, and brought a lot of employees deep into the decision process.  I suspect if companies all had to show what their "cost per employee" was to the employees rather than just what they were being paid and withholdings to the government, it would prevent some surprises like that. 

Sadly for purposes of this thread, I don't have many spendy relatives, just a few friends. . .

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3416 on: August 01, 2017, 02:08:25 PM »
What?  Wait a sec.   All y'all's pay stubs dont include the company paid portion of your health insurance?  I have been taking this information for granted forever.  As of my last pay check my employer has paid 3457.30$ towards my insurance this year. 

Paul der Krake

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3417 on: August 01, 2017, 02:12:32 PM »
What?  Wait a sec.   All y'all's pay stubs dont include the company paid portion of your health insurance?  I have been taking this information for granted forever.  As of my last pay check my employer has paid 3457.30$ towards my insurance this year. 
I've never seen this on any of my of my wife's paychecks, across 6 companies.

I would love it if it were more public. It would incentivize companies to "compensate" employees who choose the HDHP options. They could put more money in the HSAs, to bring it up to par with the compensation of employees on fat cat plans.

fluffmuffin

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3418 on: August 01, 2017, 04:15:58 PM »
Huh...my pay stubs always have, but then I've always worked for state organizations and I feel like they usually have to provide a higher level of financial openness. My current university gave me a premium of $0 for choosing a lower-level plan with an employer-funded HSA (yup, read that right) and then filling out an online health self-assessment. I think they pay around $300/paycheck for me. But then I definitely have the most basic option they offer.

JLee

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3419 on: August 01, 2017, 05:09:25 PM »
Huh...my pay stubs always have, but then I've always worked for state organizations and I feel like they usually have to provide a higher level of financial openness. My current university gave me a premium of $0 for choosing a lower-level plan with an employer-funded HSA (yup, read that right) and then filling out an online health self-assessment. I think they pay around $300/paycheck for me. But then I definitely have the most basic option they offer.

I'm pretty sure mine always have as well (non-gov now).

Proud Foot

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3420 on: August 02, 2017, 11:25:48 AM »
What?  Wait a sec.   All y'all's pay stubs dont include the company paid portion of your health insurance?  I have been taking this information for granted forever.  As of my last pay check my employer has paid 3457.30$ towards my insurance this year. 
I've never seen this on any of my of my wife's paychecks, across 6 companies.

I would love it if it were more public. It would incentivize companies to "compensate" employees who choose the HDHP options. They could put more money in the HSAs, to bring it up to par with the compensation of employees on fat cat plans.

Check your W-2 from last year.  The ACA required employers to report the cost of coverage in Box 12 Code DD. I don't remember seeing it on my paychecks prior to the ACA but it has been on there since that time.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3421 on: August 02, 2017, 12:31:21 PM »
What?  Wait a sec.   All y'all's pay stubs dont include the company paid portion of your health insurance?  I have been taking this information for granted forever.  As of my last pay check my employer has paid 3457.30$ towards my insurance this year. 
I've never seen this on any of my of my wife's paychecks, across 6 companies.

I would love it if it were more public. It would incentivize companies to "compensate" employees who choose the HDHP options. They could put more money in the HSAs, to bring it up to par with the compensation of employees on fat cat plans.

Check your W-2 from last year.  The ACA required employers to report the cost of coverage in Box 12 Code DD. I don't remember seeing it on my paychecks prior to the ACA but it has been on there since that time.
Yup, it's on my W-2. But my point still stands: the public doesn't understand taxes, and hiding it on a small box in a form that people blindly enter into turbotax or their accountant doesn't help much.

Proud Foot

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3422 on: August 02, 2017, 03:50:56 PM »
What?  Wait a sec.   All y'all's pay stubs dont include the company paid portion of your health insurance?  I have been taking this information for granted forever.  As of my last pay check my employer has paid 3457.30$ towards my insurance this year. 
I've never seen this on any of my of my wife's paychecks, across 6 companies.

I would love it if it were more public. It would incentivize companies to "compensate" employees who choose the HDHP options. They could put more money in the HSAs, to bring it up to par with the compensation of employees on fat cat plans.

Check your W-2 from last year.  The ACA required employers to report the cost of coverage in Box 12 Code DD. I don't remember seeing it on my paychecks prior to the ACA but it has been on there since that time.
Yup, it's on my W-2. But my point still stands: the public doesn't understand taxes, and hiding it on a small box in a form that people blindly enter into turbotax or their accountant doesn't help much.

I completely agree with you. I think a lot of people would be a little more grateful for the 15% premium increase* from the prior year if they actually saw how much their employer paid for the insurance, particularly if their increase was smaller than the total increase.
* I am not wanting to open up whether this is actually a reasonable/necessary increase or not.

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3423 on: August 02, 2017, 04:43:09 PM »
Our company sent out an email detailing exactly how much it had been increasing for them over the past 3-4 years, and none of it was passed on to the employee. They finally raised our rates this year (less than the increase though).

The annoying thing is that they could easily cover the entire cost and it would barely touch the profits of the company, but our benefits are already very good compared to our competitors so they didn't have to.

MrMoogle

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3424 on: August 03, 2017, 10:04:10 AM »
What?  Wait a sec.   All y'all's pay stubs dont include the company paid portion of your health insurance?  I have been taking this information for granted forever.  As of my last pay check my employer has paid 3457.30$ towards my insurance this year. 
I've never seen this on any of my of my wife's paychecks, across 6 companies.

I would love it if it were more public. It would incentivize companies to "compensate" employees who choose the HDHP options. They could put more money in the HSAs, to bring it up to par with the compensation of employees on fat cat plans.

Check your W-2 from last year.  The ACA required employers to report the cost of coverage in Box 12 Code DD. I don't remember seeing it on my paychecks prior to the ACA but it has been on there since that time.
Yup, it's on my W-2. But my point still stands: the public doesn't understand taxes, and hiding it on a small box in a form that people blindly enter into turbotax or their accountant doesn't help much.

I completely agree with you. I think a lot of people would be a little more grateful for the 15% premium increase* from the prior year if they actually saw how much their employer paid for the insurance, particularly if their increase was smaller than the total increase.
* I am not wanting to open up whether this is actually a reasonable/necessary increase or not.
We have a yearly meeting regarding benefits, so everyone is well aware of what percentage our company pays vs what we pay.  Afterwards, I always hear griping about ObamaCare for a few weeks.  I'm sure in more liberal areas there would be complaints about greedy insurance companies.  If we have to pay more, there will always be someone/something to complain about because of it.

penguintroopers

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3425 on: August 05, 2017, 04:16:20 PM »
I did it! I've finally read all of the pages in this thread, from the very beginning. 69 pages of antimustachian hilariousness. I read the gems out loud or forwarded them in an email to my hubby.

I have to say, without a doubt the grandparents who borrowed money to save for the grandchild was the most ludicrous thing in this entire thread. As antimustachian as the new cars, giant houses, and bloated grocery bills are, I can sometimes get them from some people. You gotta eat, go places, and put a roof over you head. Right? Right. (Yes, but not by spending 2-10x more cash than what you actually have to!).

Anyway, I'll contribute my relatives who just don't get it. Last month I got my credit report just to make sure everything was going ok, and because I was curious why my score was a full 50 points lower than my husbands (we can see our "scores" on the bill once per quarter), despite us having nearly identical credit histories. Similar outstanding student loan, and I added him as an account holder to my small CC I got in college for cashback rewards, pretty much the only thing is he isn't on the $300 department store card I haven't used for like 2 years.

Turns out I had a 50% utilization. I nearly spat out my tea because we never keep more than about $200 on the card at any given time. I thought someone had gone on a spending spree and I just now found out about it. Scrolling through I find a card with ~12.6k outstanding on a ~20k limit. I nearly lose it because I don't recognize this card at all, until I see the primary account person is my stepdad. I had forgotten when I studied abroad that my parents added me and gave me the card for emergencies. With no emergencies, when I came back to the states I promptly forget about the card.

But now its sad to think that my parents have had a huge CC bill for at least 2 years now at at least 18% (pretty sure my parents have a high FICO score, but I have no idea how much it actually is. It could be more like 20, 25, or even 29.99% shudders).

All the while they live at an hour away from where they work, commuting back and forth in a (thankfully?) medium sized SUV and carpool. They eat practically every night out because they get home so late (leave work at 6, commute an hour, you get home at 7 hungry with nothing cooked). They don't want to move closer to work because the cost per square foot increases as you move closer to the city, and my mom loves the country and they love the neighborhood they are in. So much so that when they moved, they just moved to the opposite side of the neighborhood because they wanted a single-level home. Thankfully, they talk about it being their retirement home (standard retirement is still another ~15-20 years away).

I also feel bad, because my parents contributed quite a bit to our wedding. I thought their financial picture was a lot better (no CC debt, and at least a couple thousand earmarked as a thankful gift to us for the wedding). Had I known I probably would have asked for less, because our wedding was very nice but there were things we could have trimmed some if needed.

Gronnie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3426 on: August 05, 2017, 04:45:08 PM »
snip

Hopefully they are still saving money for retirement and just think carrying some credit card debit is "normal", and that you don't have to support yourself AND them when they retire.

For now, call the card company and ask to be removed as an authorized user on the account and for it to be removed from your report.

penguintroopers

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3427 on: August 05, 2017, 07:43:04 PM »
I think they are doing pretty good in that respect. The next posting my score shot up 100 points, so I'm definitely off of it. I'm thinking I'll see a weird decrease because my open credit was cut by like 2/3rds, but I'm ok with that.

The in-laws are the ones we're worried about supporting through their retirement (pretty sure they've saved either $0 or less than $10k), which makes me kind of upset because we know of ways they could cut costs, but choose not to out of sheer laziness and apathy.

I could post more, but am waiting for hubby to give me the ok, since it is his parents.

bob999

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3428 on: August 07, 2017, 02:04:13 AM »
I have a relative who just haven't learnt financial literacy and probably never will.

They bought a house and then two brand new cars. The two cars were bought on the same day!! Then bought a block of land that they couldn't afford and within weeks put it up for sale. Then filed for bankruptcy due to over committing and not being able to afford the repayments.

A few years go by and they buy another house and (you guessed it) brand new SUV. This time around the housing market was favourable and the price of their  house went up so they withdrew the equity and blew it on casinos.

Realising they can't afford the loans (again) declared bankruptcy (round 2).

They have been discharged of their bankruptcy recently and (you will not believe it) they have just bought another house and are talking about upgrading their cars and furniture because the house needs 'new' look.


Feivel2000

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3429 on: August 07, 2017, 02:31:50 AM »
I have a relative who just haven't learnt financial literacy and probably never will.

They bought a house and then two brand new cars. The two cars were bought on the same day!! Then bought a block of land that they couldn't afford and within weeks put it up for sale. Then filed for bankruptcy due to over committing and not being able to afford the repayments.

A few years go by and they buy another house and (you guessed it) brand new SUV. This time around the housing market was favourable and the price of their  house went up so they withdrew the equity and blew it on casinos.

Realising they can't afford the loans (again) declared bankruptcy (round 2).

They have been discharged of their bankruptcy recently and (you will not believe it) they have just bought another house and are talking about upgrading their cars and furniture because the house needs 'new' look.
Who is really the stupid in this story? The people living in nice houses, driving new cars and having fun in the casinos? Or the banks?

bob999

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3430 on: August 07, 2017, 04:55:53 AM »
I have a relative who just haven't learnt financial literacy and probably never will.

They bought a house and then two brand new cars. The two cars were bought on the same day!! Then bought a block of land that they couldn't afford and within weeks put it up for sale. Then filed for bankruptcy due to over committing and not being able to afford the repayments.

A few years go by and they buy another house and (you guessed it) brand new SUV. This time around the housing market was favourable and the price of their  house went up so they withdrew the equity and blew it on casinos.

Realising they can't afford the loans (again) declared bankruptcy (round 2).

They have been discharged of their bankruptcy recently and (you will not believe it) they have just bought another house and are talking about upgrading their cars and furniture because the house needs 'new' look.
Who is really the stupid in this story? The people living in nice houses, driving new cars and having fun in the casinos? Or the banks?

Sometimes I wonder the same thing. My relatives can't believe why anyone would impose not spending money when they can afford it. Their whole purpose to exist is to consume more.

MrMoogle

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3431 on: August 07, 2017, 09:26:12 AM »
I have a relative who just haven't learnt financial literacy and probably never will.

They bought a house and then two brand new cars. The two cars were bought on the same day!! Then bought a block of land that they couldn't afford and within weeks put it up for sale. Then filed for bankruptcy due to over committing and not being able to afford the repayments.

A few years go by and they buy another house and (you guessed it) brand new SUV. This time around the housing market was favourable and the price of their  house went up so they withdrew the equity and blew it on casinos.

Realising they can't afford the loans (again) declared bankruptcy (round 2).

They have been discharged of their bankruptcy recently and (you will not believe it) they have just bought another house and are talking about upgrading their cars and furniture because the house needs 'new' look.
Who is really the stupid in this story? The people living in nice houses, driving new cars and having fun in the casinos? Or the banks?
I bet the banks are charged a huge interest rate on the loans.  These people probably have extremely low credit scores.  They probably are making huge interest on the first 6 months and then taking the house/car back, and overall making money.  Also, sometimes they get to garnish wages after a bankruptcy. 

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3432 on: August 10, 2017, 03:27:45 AM »
I did it! I've finally read all of the pages in this thread, from the very beginning. 69 pages of antimustachian hilariousness. I read the gems out loud or forwarded them in an email to my hubby.

I have to say, without a doubt the grandparents who borrowed money to save for the grandchild was the most ludicrous thing in this entire thread.

You can read more about them here. There is seemingly no end to the horror.

2Cent

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3433 on: August 10, 2017, 04:07:15 AM »
My future inlaws...

They lost more than 100k to a ponzi scheme many years ago (before I knew them), the leader said he had 'good christian values' so they trusted him.  Now they are involved in a pyramid scheme(life leadership), which couldn't possibly be a scam because it has 'good christian values.  They refuse to see any similarity.  Their kids have all tried to talk them out of this but they refuse to listen.

Recently their business went bankrupt and for whatever reason it wasn't tax shielded, so now they are going bankrupt as well.  Because they have really bad credit history they couldn't get a car loan, so they LEASED a brand new Ford Fusion.  Never mind that they had working cars and could have bought a nicer one with a few months of their lease payments.  They changed their minds and decided they wanted the equity instead so they gave it back(presumably taking whatever penalities as well), and buying a used 2014 Lincoln for 20k! (I can only imagine the terms of this loan...). 

From my understanding this could either completely derail their bankruptcy at worst, get taken back if the court thinks it isn't a reasonable expense, or maybe worst of all, they could agree to keep paying the payments even after they get out of bankruptcy.

I'm scared shitless of having to fund them when they are older.
At least if they hit rock bottom now, they have some time to get used to live on a lower budget which is forced on them by circumstance rather than a limit that you set for their funding.

Feivel2000

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3434 on: August 10, 2017, 04:15:06 AM »
I did it! I've finally read all of the pages in this thread, from the very beginning. 69 pages of antimustachian hilariousness. I read the gems out loud or forwarded them in an email to my hubby.

I have to say, without a doubt the grandparents who borrowed money to save for the grandchild was the most ludicrous thing in this entire thread.

You can read more about them here. There is seemingly no end to the horror.
The link doesn't work for me. Can you name the thread and subforum?

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3435 on: August 10, 2017, 04:44:59 AM »
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/playing-with-fire-is-getting-burned

journals/playing-with-fire-is-getting-burned

Any better?

Snow

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3436 on: August 10, 2017, 06:50:34 AM »
I'm not sure if I should feel exasperated or just sad about my brother. The guy is sweet as anything, has a reasonable, but not high-paying job and really wants to settle down with a partner. This bleeds through into his dating game and he seems to attract leeches like nothing else.

10 years ago, he approached my dad in tears because his then-gf1 had convinced him to take out some $50k worth of CC debt and then ran off with the money. The interests were really bad, so dad liquidated all the funds he had saved so far (he had just started saving in funds at this point) and re-mortgaged the house to put it all into one big loan with a small interest. This refinancing alone saved my brother over $200 a month. It was agreed that he should pay my dad back x amount each month for y years.

Roll forward five years, and the poor idiot does it again. His then-gf2 didn't run off with the money at least, but insisted on luxurious holidays several times a year that they could not afford (and didn't work). He has also been getting lax with the repayments to my dad lately, because "They have to understand that he is poor." and "What's the big deal?".

It makes me sad that at this point, it very well looks like SO and I will be able to afford a mortgage much earlier that him, and he is several years my senior (and went straight to work, rather than through 5 years of poor student life). In confidence, my dad also told me that he would be very happy to help me (and SO) with a mortgage, should we wish. But my brother has burned his bridges in that regard.

So if I get anything from Playing with Fire UK's thread about inlaws... it is that I, sadly, cannot allow myself to get entangled with my brother's finances. It has caused enough strain on family relationships as it is. I will just continue playing the impoverished student who gets by, but not much more.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 06:52:19 AM by Snow »

prognastat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3437 on: August 10, 2017, 07:47:22 AM »
I'm not sure if I should feel exasperated or just sad about my brother. The guy is sweet as anything, has a reasonable, but not high-paying job and really wants to settle down with a partner. This bleeds through into his dating game and he seems to attract leeches like nothing else.

10 years ago, he approached my dad in tears because his then-gf1 had convinced him to take out some $50k worth of CC debt and then ran off with the money. The interests were really bad, so dad liquidated all the funds he had saved so far (he had just started saving in funds at this point) and re-mortgaged the house to put it all into one big loan with a small interest. This refinancing alone saved my brother over $200 a month. It was agreed that he should pay my dad back x amount each month for y years.

Roll forward five years, and the poor idiot does it again. His then-gf2 didn't run off with the money at least, but insisted on luxurious holidays several times a year that they could not afford (and didn't work). He has also been getting lax with the repayments to my dad lately, because "They have to understand that he is poor." and "What's the big deal?".

It makes me sad that at this point, it very well looks like SO and I will be able to afford a mortgage much earlier that him, and he is several years my senior (and went straight to work, rather than through 5 years of poor student life). In confidence, my dad also told me that he would be very happy to help me (and SO) with a mortgage, should we wish. But my brother has burned his bridges in that regard.

So if I get anything from Playing with Fire UK's thread about inlaws... it is that I, sadly, cannot allow myself to get entangled with my brother's finances. It has caused enough strain on family relationships as it is. I will just continue playing the impoverished student who gets by, but not much more.

It's a fine line between helping a friend or family member that is doing terribly financially and getting dragged down by them. It's like saving a drowning person, if you aren't careful in how you do it they can drag you down with them.

RWD

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3438 on: August 10, 2017, 07:49:18 AM »
I did it! I've finally read all of the pages in this thread, from the very beginning. 69 pages of antimustachian hilariousness. I read the gems out loud or forwarded them in an email to my hubby.

I have to say, without a doubt the grandparents who borrowed money to save for the grandchild was the most ludicrous thing in this entire thread.

You can read more about them here. There is seemingly no end to the horror.
The link doesn't work for me. Can you name the thread and subforum?
The link works fine for me. Were you not logged in? The Journals subforum can only be viewed when you are logged in.

Feivel2000

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3439 on: August 10, 2017, 09:00:12 AM »
I did it! I've finally read all of the pages in this thread, from the very beginning. 69 pages of antimustachian hilariousness. I read the gems out loud or forwarded them in an email to my hubby.

I have to say, without a doubt the grandparents who borrowed money to save for the grandchild was the most ludicrous thing in this entire thread.

You can read more about them here. There is seemingly no end to the horror.
The link doesn't work for me. Can you name the thread and subforum?
The link works fine for me. Were you not logged in? The Journals subforum can only be viewed when you are logged in.
Might be a Tapatalk problem...

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3440 on: August 10, 2017, 10:32:37 AM »
He has also been getting lax with the repayments to my dad lately, because "They have to understand that he is poor." and "What's the big deal?".

The problem with hanging out with vampires is that you eventually become one. This, I believe, is what may have happened to your brother. After spending so much time with leeches, he's accustomed to the notion that it's right, reasonable, and OK to *be* in a one-way-street relationship. It feels normal. So flipping the script and being the person to whom resources flow also feels appropriate.

"They have to understand that he is poor."

No, *HE* has to understand that he is poor, and that his poverty is a direct result of thinking with his little head because he's got a reasonable job that should be able to pay for his necessities. Although he has the Constitutional right to the pursuit of happiness, even to the point of bankrupting himself in the quest for nooky, he also has the adult responsibility of making sure the negative consequences of those decisions stop with him. He does not have the right to drag other people into his financial quagmire.

As part of the understanding that he is poor-- and by that, I mean that he has a middle-class income but tons of debt due to past decisions-- he has to grok the fact that multiple expensive vacations simply aren't things he can afford, for him OR for someone else.

He also has to understand that his father made major personal sacrifices in order to bail him out the first time. He liquidated all his own savings and mortgaged the family home to save his son, thereby delaying his own retirement and possibly ensuring that he'll never have one. And, how has he repaid his father's sacrifice? By deciding that he doesn't have to repay the debt, by trying to stick his father with the bill, and by trying to gouge even more out of the good old man.

Pleasant personality notwithstanding, these are not the acts of a nice or good person. They are the self-absorbed decisions of a complete jerk. He might be "sweet as anything" but I don't think that what he's done to your father is very sweet. It appears to me that the sweetness has some very selective targets. He clearly has the skills to butter people up to get what he wants out of them, and he's very agreeable when getting what he wants, but look how he behaves when his father asks him to hold up his end of the deal. Tantrum time!

"What's the big deal?"

The big deal is that his father has worked hard all his life, and simply cannot afford to subsidize somebody with a higher standard of living than himself. Most likely he didn't get to go on the various beaches, cruises, and whatever other vacations your brother's girlfriend gouged, wheedled, boinked, manipulated, or tantrumed out of your brother. He didn't get to benefit from the vacation, and he also didn't get to benefit from whatever else the girlfriend did to convince your brother she was worth taking on vacation. All those benefits were directed toward your brother.

Snow

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3441 on: August 10, 2017, 11:02:48 AM »
The problem with hanging out with vampires is that you eventually become one. This, I believe, is what may have happened to your brother. After spending so much time with leeches, he's accustomed to the notion that it's right, reasonable, and OK to *be* in a one-way-street relationship. It feels normal. So flipping the script and being the person to whom resources flow also feels appropriate.

That... may have hit the nail on the head pretty hard. I think you might have just altered how I view my immature older brother.

I had not thought it to such extremes. Pension funds are seperate, so dad is still able to retire, and he has a small house and good personal finance sense. He will be all right.

But to think that my brother blew over two down-payments for a mortgage (hell, it's over 50% of a full mortgage at the prices down there) on air and is a liability on top of it... is pretty darn... off-putting? Distressing? Something along those lines.

Ann

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3442 on: August 10, 2017, 11:17:06 AM »
Pleasant personality notwithstanding, these are not the acts of a nice or good person.

I agree with GrimSqueaker's assessment.  I know Snow said his brother was "sweet" and didn't use the term "good person" or "nice", but I would like to segue into my distaste of people saying "I'm a good person" or "He's a good person".  I think such labeling opens up to justification of all sorts of selfish and even evil acts.  The human brain loves short cuts and we need them to function efficiently, but I wish people would avoid that one.  People aren't "good".  They just are, and need to decide every day how they will form their life.  Is this action or past action "good" or "bad"?  And it will be a mixed bag, with a lot of neutral.   And it's not additive.

Step37

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3443 on: August 10, 2017, 02:47:11 PM »
The problem with hanging out with vampires is that you eventually become one. This, I believe, is what may have happened to your brother. After spending so much time with leeches, he's accustomed to the notion that it's right, reasonable, and OK to *be* in a one-way-street relationship. It feels normal. So flipping the script and being the person to whom resources flow also feels appropriate.

That... may have hit the nail on the head pretty hard. I think you might have just altered how I view my immature older brother.

I had not thought it to such extremes. Pension funds are seperate, so dad is still able to retire, and he has a small house and good personal finance sense. He will be all right.

But to think that my brother blew over two down-payments for a mortgage (hell, it's over 50% of a full mortgage at the prices down there) on air and is a liability on top of it... is pretty darn... off-putting? Distressing? Something along those lines.

Snow, thank you for posting this, and TGS, thank you for the awesome response. You have both inspired me to text my sister and request that she begin repayment of the "short-term" loan I gave her TWO YEARS AGO. She agreed. I know that she and her husband are in a better place income-wise than they were, but this has only been since spring so I was giving them some breathing room . . . Enough already. The fact that it's a spending problem and not an income problem does not register with them.

She is coming to visit next month and will be bringing me post-dated cheques. If she can afford an airline ticket, she can afford to start paying me.

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3444 on: August 10, 2017, 07:44:32 PM »
"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is in the Declaration of Independence not the Constitution.

fluffmuffin

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3445 on: August 11, 2017, 08:30:37 AM »
Back OT from the healthcare chatter: My future SIL, OMG. I love her, but sometimes I just want to shake her. She's a teacher in a LCOL state, so doesn't have a high income. She's chosen to live by herself for the last three years instead of having a roommate, so she's been putting 50% of her salary towards rent every single month. She uses shopping as entertainment, has like three closets full of clothing, and goes to Marshalls/TJ Maxx every. single. week. She has virtually no savings and could only go on the family vacay this summer because the future in-laws subsidized her flight, which they did not have to do for anyone else, including the brother who's generally accepted to be a wayward fuckup and who only started holding down a full-time job a year ago.

She's moving today and keeps sending me texts about "oh no, I can't believe how much stuff I have to move, this is the worstttt," and she can't afford movers or to rent a truck so she's having to drive her compact car back and forth between her old city and her new city with all of her crap. Hmm, maybe EVERYTHING would be better if you bought less stuff at TJ Maxx?

Props to her, she is moving in with a roommate in her new city. We talked about how cutting her rent by so much would let her start saving, which I was thrilled about. But then she told me the reason why she wants to save: so she can get a place by herself after the school year :( It's just so frustrating. She tells me she's stressed out about money and I wish I could help, but I feel like I've just started making progress with my SO after three years of dating and a full year of cohabitation. I love my future in-laws, but they did not raise their kids with a lot of financial literacy. I don't understand how that happened, since they're so on top of their own finances. My SO says they just never talked about money and that if there was something they wanted, they would just get it. Sigh.

The future SIL just texted me to ask about the brand of bag I brought with me on vacation so she could start shopping for one. It was a (hand-me-down) Longchamp Le Pliage, which retail around $145.

At least no one has had to take out an extra mortgage to service her debts, like Snow's brother. Yet...

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3446 on: August 11, 2017, 10:11:29 AM »
"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is in the Declaration of Independence not the Constitution.

I was actually going for a WWE reference: when a character is doing something extremely silly or self-destructive, the announcer describes it as exercising his (or in a very rare case, her) "Constitutional right to..." do something stupid that no sane person would do. The WWE use of the word "Constitutional" is deliberately ironic and also hilarious. I was kind of trying to tap into that.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3447 on: August 11, 2017, 11:13:44 AM »
"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is in the Declaration of Independence not the Constitution.

I was actually going for a WWE reference: when a character is doing something extremely silly or self-destructive, the announcer describes it as exercising his (or in a very rare case, her) "Constitutional right to..." do something stupid that no sane person would do. The WWE use of the word "Constitutional" is deliberately ironic and also hilarious. I was kind of trying to tap into that.
The bolded explains a lot about Trump: he must have missed the memo on that.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3448 on: August 11, 2017, 11:29:00 PM »
This thread, and some of the inheritance threads, is making me increasingly happy that my family doesn't have very much to fight over. Though, I am now starting to entertain the thought that my "poor" brother might try to screw me over, but 1) I'll build my own life, always have, and 2) that is so far into the horizon that I am not going to let it cloud my skies.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3449 on: August 15, 2017, 01:10:27 PM »
I am  very frustrated with a young relative.  They just started living on their own and made a good choice of renting a reasonably priced suite and found a job. But they keep posting or liking stupid  stuff like:
 
"After I get my hair and nails done I only have $2 in my bank account."

I worry that it is true and I know they have asked another relative for money recently.  Even if it is not true, they should not find those posts funny.

They have stuck with the job for a few months but I know they broke their lease. I'm not sure of the lease details, but I am very concerned with their responsibility level.

It is just frustrating to watch.  I am not sure I should PM them to offer budgeting help or anything. I am known as the "good with numbers geek" in the family.  But I don't want to come off as condescending.