Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 1548359 times)

Guava

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3150 on: July 03, 2017, 08:12:56 PM »
Found out BIL's electric bill is $600 per month.  I can't even wrap my head around this. They aren't using the air this year because they can't afford it.  I have no idea how their bill is so high.

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3151 on: July 03, 2017, 08:20:05 PM »
Found out BIL's electric bill is $600 per month.  I can't even wrap my head around this. They aren't using the air this year because they can't afford it.  I have no idea how their bill is so high.

While getting insulation quotes recently the sales guy said he has seen bills like that in houses with half the ducting not connected.  Or you know bitcoin mining...

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3152 on: July 03, 2017, 08:41:28 PM »
Found out BIL's electric bill is $600 per month.  I can't even wrap my head around this. They aren't using the air this year because they can't afford it.  I have no idea how their bill is so high.

While getting insulation quotes recently the sales guy said he has seen bills like that in houses with half the ducting not connected.  Or you know bitcoin mining...

Grow house...

Goldielocks

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3153 on: July 04, 2017, 12:28:59 AM »
Found out BIL's electric bill is $600 per month.  I can't even wrap my head around this. They aren't using the air this year because they can't afford it.  I have no idea how their bill is so high.

While getting insulation quotes recently the sales guy said he has seen bills like that in houses with half the ducting not connected.  Or you know bitcoin mining...

DH has moved his computer to our unheated basement shop.  He usually needs a small electric heater / fan unit, but with the computer in there (and after he had to add extra cooling to it for over heating), he quipped that all he needs to do is run a bit coin mining operation and he would have free heat for the winter...   

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3154 on: July 04, 2017, 08:24:43 AM »
Found out BIL's electric bill is $600 per month.  I can't even wrap my head around this. They aren't using the air this year because they can't afford it.  I have no idea how their bill is so high.

While getting insulation quotes recently the sales guy said he has seen bills like that in houses with half the ducting not connected.  Or you know bitcoin mining...

DH has moved his computer to our unheated basement shop.  He usually needs a small electric heater / fan unit, but with the computer in there (and after he had to add extra cooling to it for over heating), he quipped that all he needs to do is run a bit coin mining operation and he would have free heat for the winter...

I was about to research and do some math to work out the ROI of bitcoin mining vs a grow house but I figured doing the latter (even on Freedom Day) might not be smart.

Guava

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3155 on: July 04, 2017, 11:28:31 AM »
Found out BIL's electric bill is $600 per month.  I can't even wrap my head around this. They aren't using the air this year because they can't afford it.  I have no idea how their bill is so high.

While getting insulation quotes recently the sales guy said he has seen bills like that in houses with half the ducting not connected.  Or you know bitcoin mining...

Grow house...

They blame it solely on their 17 year old. Now that kid might be coin mining, but the parents definitely aren't. Also not a grow house, but that could solve their money problems.

Part of the problem is it's a log cabin with high ceilings and almost no insulation, but if they aren't running the air that doesn't matter. My guess is the 2 100 gallon saltwater fish tanks. And the son's gaming as a contributing factor.

infogoon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3156 on: July 05, 2017, 08:32:07 AM »
I heard a story long ago of a higher ed systems administrator who brought home a few decommissioned VAX minicomputers from work and started running a cluster in his garage to play around with; the hardware threw so much heat that the DEA showed up, thinking that the heat plumes from an outbuilding just had to be a grow op.

MrMoogle

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3157 on: July 05, 2017, 09:17:49 AM »
Found out BIL's electric bill is $600 per month.  I can't even wrap my head around this. They aren't using the air this year because they can't afford it.  I have no idea how their bill is so high.

While getting insulation quotes recently the sales guy said he has seen bills like that in houses with half the ducting not connected.  Or you know bitcoin mining...

Grow house...

They blame it solely on their 17 year old. Now that kid might be coin mining, but the parents definitely aren't. Also not a grow house, but that could solve their money problems.

Part of the problem is it's a log cabin with high ceilings and almost no insulation, but if they aren't running the air that doesn't matter. My guess is the 2 100 gallon saltwater fish tanks. And the son's gaming as a contributing factor.
That must be some gaming rig.  To put things in perspective, I'm a gamer, but only have my computer on when I'm home, and I use AC, and my electric bill was $40 last month.  Although last month, I had the thermostat lower than I normally do, because I was sick and more sensitive to temperature.  Last year I was $30-35 during the summer.

Rosbif

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3158 on: July 05, 2017, 02:39:29 PM »
snip

List of excuses to get the parents off my back:

snip

"You need to buy/rent a place with a guest room." "...I hate having houseguests?" I honestly don't have a good quip for this one yet.

"I murdered the last three guests and the clean-up just takes hours, I'd rather have my evenings free"

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3159 on: July 05, 2017, 03:18:11 PM »
My husband is travelling this week and his parents asked him to buy them a certain item duty free and they would pay him back.

He bought the item, took a photo of the receipt and emailed it to them.

MiL texted me yesterday to say thank you and that she had transferred money into our account.

The item was $176.35.

She transferred $170.

It's not enough to actually raise it with them, but fuck it bugs me.

I haven't spoken to my husband about it but I know he'll say, "Eh, it's only $6.35."

If it's only $6.35, then they should pay it.

I'd be more forgiving if this was a first offence.

MiL once had us pick up a small piece of furniture she bought on eBay. We had to drive to the other side of our city to get it.

It was $28. She paid us $28. Didn't even round it up to $30 for fuel and our time.

Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3160 on: July 05, 2017, 03:25:58 PM »
My husband is travelling this week and his parents asked him to buy them a certain item duty free and they would pay him back.

He bought the item, took a photo of the receipt and emailed it to them.

MiL texted me yesterday to say thank you and that she had transferred money into our account.

The item was $176.35.

She transferred $170.

It's not enough to actually raise it with them, but fuck it bugs me.

I haven't spoken to my husband about it but I know he'll say, "Eh, it's only $6.35."

If it's only $6.35, then they should pay it.

I'd be more forgiving if this was a first offence.

MiL once had us pick up a small piece of furniture she bought on eBay. We had to drive to the other side of our city to get it.

It was $28. She paid us $28. Didn't even round it up to $30 for fuel and our time.

Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

A picture of the receipt?  I cant imagine having to show proof of price to my parent to get paid back for something.  If I go get supplies for parents store I will hand them the receipts for there books and they will typically round up the cost when paying me back for my troubles.

Rowellen

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3161 on: July 05, 2017, 03:34:32 PM »
No. MIL is the stingy bastard here.

ixtap

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3162 on: July 05, 2017, 03:37:25 PM »
Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

It is kind of annoying, but do you really want to be the ones to nickel and dime them? You make it sound like the incidents are pretty far apart, rather than them trying to get a few bucks every time you see them.

It depends on the rest of the relationship, as well. We covered something big for my ILs that DH never requested back. However, when we visit them, we get free room and board, and now that we fly in, even a car for just the price of gas.

marty998

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3163 on: July 05, 2017, 03:42:13 PM »
Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

It is kind of annoying, but do you really want to be the ones to nickel and dime them? You make it sound like the incidents are pretty far apart, rather than them trying to get a few bucks every time you see them.

It depends on the rest of the relationship, as well. We covered something big for my ILs that DH never requested back. However, when we visit them, we get free room and board, and now that we fly in, even a car for just the price of gas.

Of the view that parents should not short change their kids in this manner... amongst other things, it sets a really poor. example.

Like...you wouldn't pay the duty free shop $170 after agreeing to $176...

BDWW

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3164 on: July 05, 2017, 03:49:02 PM »
My husband is travelling this week and his parents asked him to buy them a certain item duty free and they would pay him back.

He bought the item, took a photo of the receipt and emailed it to them.

MiL texted me yesterday to say thank you and that she had transferred money into our account.

The item was $176.35.

She transferred $170.

It's not enough to actually raise it with them, but fuck it bugs me.

I haven't spoken to my husband about it but I know he'll say, "Eh, it's only $6.35."

If it's only $6.35, then they should pay it.

I'd be more forgiving if this was a first offence.

MiL once had us pick up a small piece of furniture she bought on eBay. We had to drive to the other side of our city to get it.

It was $28. She paid us $28. Didn't even round it up to $30 for fuel and our time.

Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

A picture of the receipt?  I cant imagine having to show proof of price to my parent to get paid back for something.  If I go get supplies for parents store I will hand them the receipts for there books and they will typically round up the cost when paying me back for my troubles.

It's always interesting reading about different family cultures. It obviously all varies on the family dynamic, but unless it was a recurring thing, we'd have just bought the item and told parents "Don't worry about it." ... and then half the time my mom would try and sneak the money into say the glovebox without me noticing.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3165 on: July 05, 2017, 03:59:18 PM »
He bought the item, took a photo of the receipt and emailed it to them.

MiL texted me yesterday to say thank you and that she had transferred money into our account.

The item was $176.35.

She transferred $170.

A picture of the receipt?  I cant imagine having to show proof of price to my parent to get paid back for something.  If I go get supplies for parents store I will hand them the receipts for there books and they will typically round up the cost when paying me back for my troubles.

This is exactly what I just said to Marty in a text! If I do any shopping for my parents, my mum will always round up when she pays me back and say, "You do a lot for me and I'm sure I owe you money for something."

To clarify, they didn't ask for a copy of the receipt but he's had enough odd money dealings with his parents to reinforce the need for transparency.
Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

It is kind of annoying, but do you really want to be the ones to nickel and dime them?

No, which is why I'm not raising it with them.


Of the view that parents should not short change their kids in this manner... amongst other things, it sets a really poor example.


Thank you!
It's always interesting reading about different family cultures. It obviously all varies on the family dynamic, but unless it was a recurring thing, we'd have just bought the item and told parents "Don't worry about it." ... and then half the time my mom would try and sneak the money into say the glovebox without me noticing.

Husband travels 40+ times a year and they expect souvenirs or ask for expensive perfume or aftershave from duty-free. It would cost us thousands of dollars each year if we just paid for it ourselves.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3166 on: July 05, 2017, 04:11:33 PM »
My husband is travelling this week and his parents asked him to buy them a certain item duty free and they would pay him back.

He bought the item, took a photo of the receipt and emailed it to them.

MiL texted me yesterday to say thank you and that she had transferred money into our account.

The item was $176.35.

She transferred $170.

It's not enough to actually raise it with them, but fuck it bugs me.

I haven't spoken to my husband about it but I know he'll say, "Eh, it's only $6.35."

If it's only $6.35, then they should pay it.

I'd be more forgiving if this was a first offence.

MiL once had us pick up a small piece of furniture she bought on eBay. We had to drive to the other side of our city to get it.

It was $28. She paid us $28. Didn't even round it up to $30 for fuel and our time.

Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

What's to stop you from texting MIL back:

Hey, MIL! I saw the transfer for the item hit our account, and wanted to let you know it looks like the bank transfer made a mistake. I just noticed this, but the amount should be $176.35 and the transfer was only $176.00. Whenever you get a chance to get the balance of $6.35 to us is great and I'll let you know as soon as it goes through! Thanks! :)

I would debate the idea that it isn't enough to bring up with her if this is a repeating pattern. She then knows she can get away with this crap because she's trained y'all to just ignore it when she short changes you. What is needed is developing a polite spine: Call it out, infer it likely was a mistake made by some third party so she has some plausible deniability for being a stingy short-changing jerk, and keep it light and breezy. But the big thing: if you feel she is taking advantage of you, CALL HER OUT EVERY SINGLE TIME. Politely, nicely, but firmly. 

And the other thing is to seriously consider just not putting yourself in the position of buying things for her to be paid back. I would pose the idea that being up front about the reason - that she isn't good about paying you back the full amount or taking into account your extra expenses and you feel taken advantage of, so to keep from feeding any resentment on your part, better to just not do this sort of thing any more. Or if this is too forthright, tell her you won't have time, you forgot, whatever. This part really, REALLY should come from your husband (her child) because it's his mother that is taking advantage of you both.

I would also consider if you are getting other benefits or otherwise have a great relationship with her, maybe this is that one stupid annoying thing that you are completely, 100% justified in being cheesed off about, but chalk it up to her being a dummy and let it slide if you otherwise are close and loving. Like with the furniture situation... it technically is on you if you don't ask for gas money, then she may just not have thought of it. But you also could reframe the errand as a labor of love - because you care about her, you're doing her a kindness.

But from the latest explanations you just posted, your husband really needs to stop buying things for his parents at all with the expectations that they might pay you back 95% of the amount. The reasons behind the need for receipts and allowing them to place undue obligations... sounds like he's twisted up in the idea of family and duty and letting them take advantage just due to blood ties. That's screwy and he might want to do some thinking on how to set appropriate boundaries and developing the ability to call his parents when they do take undue advantage.

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3167 on: July 05, 2017, 04:40:33 PM »
If I picked up something for my parents or in-laws I would not expect them to pay for time and or gas. That is just being cheap. I do think it is weird not to pay you the whole amount however but definitely not worth mentioning.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3168 on: July 05, 2017, 05:17:25 PM »
If I picked up something for my parents or in-laws I would not expect them to pay for time and or gas. That is just being cheap. I do think it is weird not to pay you the whole amount however but definitely not worth mentioning.

Again, part of a pattern.

They buy things on eBay in our city and ask us to pick them up to save them freight or postage.

This has included car parts that involved a 140km round-trip.

If I asked someone to do that for me, I wouldn't dream of not offering them fuel money.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3169 on: July 05, 2017, 05:35:49 PM »
... sounds like he's twisted up in the idea of family and duty and letting them take advantage just due to blood ties...

Don't do that!  It's a (insert drum roll here...) duty-free shop!

Lanthiriel

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3170 on: July 05, 2017, 06:04:58 PM »
GUYS, my grandfather passed away on Monday, so I actually had to spend time with my uncle who has been antagonizing me for about three decades now. This is the man who used to bring logic problems home from college and tell my mom I was a brat when I was able to solve them. Anyway, here are some excellent financial moments that I attempted to share on Reddit's personal finance page, but apparently Redditors couldn't believe someone this stupid exists:

  • I was whining about Oregon state taxes, but in the context of how I love all of the things they provide and I need to figure out how to come to terms with paying for all the parks and other great amenities we have in the Portland metro area. My uncle's wife looks at me and says, but you get your taxes back. I tried to clarify what she meant and apparently she believes that she and I both get back all of the taxes we pay on both the state and federal level when we file our taxes at the end of the year. I explained that that is definitely not true for me, as we are DINKs making a decent income and she shut me down with a "yes, you do."
  • I commended on uncle's wife's new Mini Cooper. She had originally bought a 2003 in 2013 for $20,000. I remember this detail because I almost did a spit take when she told me this and I'm sure I said something shitty. Well, when it (surprise, surprise) broke down last year, she got a brand new one, and rolled her negative equity into a 7-year, 22% interest car loan. Direct quote: "It only doubled the payments and insurance is another $200/month."
  • We were out at breakfast and at the beginning of the meal when we were telling the waitress how to divide up the check, uncle offers to pay for my grandfather's wife (nice gesture). When the checks come, their card is declined and we all have to pitch in to pay for their meal. Grandfather's wife is so pissed that she insists on paying for her own.

My uncle has also been MIA the whole time my grandpa was sick despite living in the same town. Apparently my grandfather passed away just after my uncle told him that he loved him, and my grandfather's wife whispered to my mom and I, "I bet that's what killed him." She plans to disinherit him.

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3171 on: July 05, 2017, 06:56:54 PM »
mustachepungoeshere:  Ok I can understand a picture of a receipt if this is half way common just to keep things straight.  (receipt would have a description and location of purchase as well as price).

Quote
I commended on uncle's wife's new Mini Cooper. She had originally bought a 2003 in 2013 for $20,000. I remember this detail because I almost did a spit take when she told me this and I'm sure I said something shitty. Well, when it (surprise, surprise) broke down last year, she got a brand new one, and rolled her negative equity into a 7-year, 22% interest car loan. Direct quote: "It only doubled the payments and insurance is another $200/month."
22%! I am not opposed to taxing the mathematically challenged but there needs to be some balance.  Even in warfare there is the concept of proportionality. 

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3172 on: July 05, 2017, 09:08:18 PM »
... sounds like he's twisted up in the idea of family and duty and letting them take advantage just due to blood ties...

Don't do that!  It's a (insert drum roll here...) duty-free shop!

Love this! :D

JordanOfGilead

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3173 on: July 06, 2017, 06:49:17 AM »
Quote
  • I was whining about Oregon state taxes, but in the context of how I love all of the things they provide and I need to figure out how to come to terms with paying for all the parks and other great amenities we have in the Portland metro area. My uncle's wife looks at me and says, but you get your taxes back. I tried to clarify what she meant and apparently she believes that she and I both get back all of the taxes we pay on both the state and federal level when we file our taxes at the end of the year. I explained that that is definitely not true for me, as we are DINKs making a decent income and she shut me down with a "yes, you do."

This is actually a much more common viewpoint than you would think. I got into it with some stranger on facebook over this. They tried to tell me that I get every penny I pay in taxes back at the end of the year.
Me: "Ok, so what about when my W2 says I paid XX,XXX in taxes, but I only get X,XXX back. Where does the rest of that money go? Does it just disappear?
FB Idiot: No! It goes toward paying for the military and infrastructure -some comment about how stupid I am-
Me: Ok, so if I pay towards the military and infrastructure ... how do I get that money back in my tax return every year? I can't pay for things AND get all of my money back. That's not how it works.
FBI: -silence-

BabyShark

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3174 on: July 06, 2017, 06:59:18 AM »
If I picked up something for my parents or in-laws I would not expect them to pay for time and or gas. That is just being cheap. I do think it is weird not to pay you the whole amount however but definitely not worth mentioning.

Again, part of a pattern.

They buy things on eBay in our city and ask us to pick them up to save them freight or postage.

This has included car parts that involved a 140km round-trip.

If I asked someone to do that for me, I wouldn't dream of not offering them fuel money.

I think the issue I have with this is that it's not like they're giving you cash and don't have exact change.  They're transferring it from their account to yours.  It literally just requires them to type in a number properly.

Pigeon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3175 on: July 06, 2017, 08:21:13 AM »


Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

Unless this was a  significant amount of money, I'd let my husband know it annoys me and then I would leave it up to him to decide if he wants to get into it with his parents.  It might be a pattern, but on the one hand you are complaining about them not giving you the exact amount, and on the other hand you are complaining about them not giving you the exact amount.  If it bugs him, he can start telling him he was too busy on his trips to do shopping for them.

I would not be running all over town to pick stuff up for them, whether they reimburse you for it or not.  If they want to save a few bucks on shipping, they can do it in a way that doesn't involve me.

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3176 on: July 06, 2017, 09:35:34 AM »
It depends on the situation.  We just visited our parents out of state, and they had us pick up a bunch of liquor from Costco since it is so much cheaper there than a normal liquor store. So I bought them about $40 of vodka, they had told me they were going to pay me back.

They didn't. I also didn't ask. My parents paid for dinner for us twice, bought gas for his boat that we used the entire weekend (he didn't even go on it at all!), etc. When he heard about all of the stuff I was selling on eBay, he asked if everything was ok and to let him know if we need help. (We're fine--I'm just trying to get rid of shit that I don't need).

So, for $40 of liquor, and about 3-4 hours of work (2-3 of which I enjoyed) my wife and I got free lodging on a beachfront property, lots of love for our dogs, use of a boat, use of many toys, etc. Yeah, mom and dad said they'd pay us back for that liquor--but I'm sure as hell not going to ask them for it, and I'd be annoyed if my wife did too.

Now, if it isn't so much of a give and take relationship (i.e. all take), then yeah, I'd be annoyed.

paddedhat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3177 on: July 06, 2017, 09:44:08 AM »
Quote
  • I was whining about Oregon state taxes, but in the context of how I love all of the things they provide and I need to figure out how to come to terms with paying for all the parks and other great amenities we have in the Portland metro area. My uncle's wife looks at me and says, but you get your taxes back. I tried to clarify what she meant and apparently she believes that she and I both get back all of the taxes we pay on both the state and federal level when we file our taxes at the end of the year. I explained that that is definitely not true for me, as we are DINKs making a decent income and she shut me down with a "yes, you do."

This is actually a much more common viewpoint than you would think. I got into it with some stranger on facebook over this. They tried to tell me that I get every penny I pay in taxes back at the end of the year.
Me: "Ok, so what about when my W2 says I paid XX,XXX in taxes, but I only get X,XXX back. Where does the rest of that money go? Does it just disappear?
FB Idiot: No! It goes toward paying for the military and infrastructure -some comment about how stupid I am-
Me: Ok, so if I pay towards the military and infrastructure ... how do I get that money back in my tax return every year? I can't pay for things AND get all of my money back. That's not how it works.
FBI: -silence-

I live among the Amish, and have neighbors who have been here forever, who will look you in the eye, and say, "You know, they don't pay a dime in taxes, no real estate taxes, state taxes, federal taxes, nothing". The sad part is that it's a horseshit claim, and takes thirty seconds online to refute, but it's a gospel fact in these parts. Stupid, it's contagious, you get it from listening to your neighbors.

infogoon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3178 on: July 06, 2017, 11:24:43 AM »
In my experience, there's an inverse correlation between how loudly someone complains about taxes and how well they understand them. The loudest people have no idea what their effective tax rate is or how marginal rates work.

cheapass

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3179 on: July 06, 2017, 11:31:39 AM »
In my experience, there's an inverse correlation between how loudly someone complains about taxes and how well they understand them. The loudest people have no idea what their effective tax rate is or how marginal rates work.

I must be an outlier because I understand a lot about taxes and bitch about them all the time lol

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3180 on: July 06, 2017, 11:36:57 AM »
In my experience, there's an inverse correlation between how loudly someone complains about taxes and how well they understand them. The loudest people have no idea what their effective tax rate is or how marginal rates work.

I must be an outlier because I understand a lot about taxes and bitch about them all the time lol
Me too.  The Illinois senate just voted for a 33% income tax increase (up to 5%), on top of our 3% effective property tax rate and 8.25% total sales tax.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3181 on: July 06, 2017, 11:40:36 AM »
Me too.  The Illinois senate just voted for a 33% income tax increase (up to 5%), on top of our 3% effective property tax rate and 8.25% total sales tax.

Time to vote with your feet and take your tax dollars elsewhere. We moved to TX from IL 7 years ago and haven't looked back. Property tax here is somewhat high (2.3% effective for us) and the sales tax is the same but the lack of a state income tax puts us way ahead. I've got that money in the market instead of sitting in Springfield's coffers.

We will definitely be moving to a low property tax state when we retire. At that point I won't really care what the income tax is because we'll be "poor" (low income).

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3182 on: July 06, 2017, 11:54:49 AM »
Me too.  The Illinois senate just voted for a 33% income tax increase (up to 5%), on top of our 3% effective property tax rate and 8.25% total sales tax.

Time to vote with your feet and take your tax dollars elsewhere. We moved to TX from IL 7 years ago and haven't looked back. Property tax here is somewhat high (2.3% effective for us) and the sales tax is the same but the lack of a state income tax puts us way ahead. I've got that money in the market instead of sitting in Springfield's coffers.

We will definitely be moving to a low property tax state when we retire. At that point I won't really care what the income tax is because we'll be "poor" (low income).
The funny thing is that we moved from TX to IL 6 years ago.  I took a pay cut in the process as well, but I enjoy my work here a lot more.  I'm trying to convince my bosses (small company/partnership) to move the company elsewhere.  Just the saved property taxes alone would amount to a huge raise.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3183 on: July 06, 2017, 01:05:19 PM »
In my experience, there's an inverse correlation between how loudly someone complains about taxes and how well they understand them. The loudest people have no idea what their effective tax rate is or how marginal rates work.

I must be an outlier because I understand a lot about taxes and bitch about them all the time lol
It's what all the loud people who don't understand taxes say.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3184 on: July 06, 2017, 03:31:42 PM »
Me too.  The Illinois senate just voted for a 33% income tax increase (up to 5%), on top of our 3% effective property tax rate and 8.25% total sales tax.

Time to vote with your feet and take your tax dollars elsewhere. We moved to TX from IL 7 years ago and haven't looked back. Property tax here is somewhat high (2.3% effective for us) and the sales tax is the same but the lack of a state income tax puts us way ahead. I've got that money in the market instead of sitting in Springfield's coffers.

We will definitely be moving to a low property tax state when we retire. At that point I won't really care what the income tax is because we'll be "poor" (low income).
The funny thing is that we moved from TX to IL 6 years ago.  I took a pay cut in the process as well, but I enjoy my work here a lot more.  I'm trying to convince my bosses (small company/partnership) to move the company elsewhere.  Just the saved property taxes alone would amount to a huge raise.

It's sad. We have friends that live in a great area, in the northwest corner of the state. LCOL, and really pleasant overall. We joking said, "we could easily move here". They instantly and solemnly responded with, "nobody should intentionally moved to state that's run this poorly, unless you have no other choice".

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3185 on: July 06, 2017, 03:55:48 PM »
Me too.  The Illinois senate just voted for a 33% income tax increase (up to 5%), on top of our 3% effective property tax rate and 8.25% total sales tax.

Time to vote with your feet and take your tax dollars elsewhere. We moved to TX from IL 7 years ago and haven't looked back. Property tax here is somewhat high (2.3% effective for us) and the sales tax is the same but the lack of a state income tax puts us way ahead. I've got that money in the market instead of sitting in Springfield's coffers.

We will definitely be moving to a low property tax state when we retire. At that point I won't really care what the income tax is because we'll be "poor" (low income).
The funny thing is that we moved from TX to IL 6 years ago.  I took a pay cut in the process as well, but I enjoy my work here a lot more.  I'm trying to convince my bosses (small company/partnership) to move the company elsewhere.  Just the saved property taxes alone would amount to a huge raise.

It's sad. We have friends that live in a great area, in the northwest corner of the state. LCOL, and really pleasant overall. We joking said, "we could easily move here". They instantly and solemnly responded with, "nobody should intentionally moved to state that's run this poorly, unless you have no other choice".

With Chicago, there is no reason that we should be in the situation we are in. And unfortunately, the problems are so deep that I don't see an end in sight.

(Political warning--this is about to get foamy and inappropriate for a forum)
2 of our last 4 governors have served time in prison--one released in 2013, the other still in. 4 of the last 11 governors have served time, after being governor.
Chicago was run for the better part of the past 100 years by the Daley's. Love them or hate them, they've made a lot of lasting decisions that are... interesting at best. Rahm hasn't been any better.

Then, the big issue: Michael Madigan. He has been the worst thing to happen to this state, even worse than Blago. I am not happy with our current governor, but I'll keep voting Republican in every possible election for our state until Michael Madigan is out of office. He is a scourge on the state. He's been speaker of the house since 1983 (except for two years in the 90's), and the biggest political bully in this states history.

Ah, I won't go into it any more. Its just raising my blood pressure.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3186 on: July 06, 2017, 07:00:19 PM »
Then, the big issue: Michael Madigan. He has been the worst thing to happen to this state, even worse than Blago. I am not happy with our current governor, but I'll keep voting Republican in every possible election for our state until Michael Madigan is out of office. He is a scourge on the state. He's been speaker of the house since 1983 (except for two years in the 90's), and the biggest political bully in this states history.

Ah, I won't go into it any more. Its just raising my blood pressure.
Yup.  When the Speaker of the House is also the ruler of the state Democrat party (and therefore in charge of dispersing campaign funds) in a state that is solidly Democratic, he has lots of leverage to get his agenda implemented.  Republicans are powerless to stop him, and the Democrats are afraid to cross him for fear of losing campaign funding.  He can stand to lose a few seats in order to teach the rest a lesson.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3187 on: July 06, 2017, 07:21:58 PM »
Then, the big issue: Michael Madigan. He has been the worst thing to happen to this state, even worse than Blago. I am not happy with our current governor, but I'll keep voting Republican in every possible election for our state until Michael Madigan is out of office. He is a scourge on the state. He's been speaker of the house since 1983 (except for two years in the 90's), and the biggest political bully in this states history.

Ah, I won't go into it any more. Its just raising my blood pressure.
Yup.  When the Speaker of the House is also the ruler of the state Democrat party (and therefore in charge of dispersing campaign funds) in a state that is solidly Democratic, he has lots of leverage to get his agenda implemented.  Republicans are powerless to stop him, and the Democrats are afraid to cross him for fear of losing campaign funding.  He can stand to lose a few seats in order to teach the rest a lesson.

I just moved to Indiana, in part because of IL's mess.

Of course, I'm the one who just pissed off her mother because the mother is isolated, ignorant, and acting slightly irrationally. And mom will not stop trying to talk politics with me, despite this not being the first, or even 10th time. No, I am not going to respect an opinion that makes no sense and is based on nothing other than rumors you heard at the grocery store. And you don't get to yell at me for not giving Trump a chance, not after you spent 8 years convinced that Obama was a Muslim and the Devil incarnate and born in Kenya.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3188 on: July 06, 2017, 07:34:25 PM »
Then, the big issue: Michael Madigan. He has been the worst thing to happen to this state, even worse than Blago. I am not happy with our current governor, but I'll keep voting Republican in every possible election for our state until Michael Madigan is out of office. He is a scourge on the state. He's been speaker of the house since 1983 (except for two years in the 90's), and the biggest political bully in this states history.

Ah, I won't go into it any more. Its just raising my blood pressure.
Yup.  When the Speaker of the House is also the ruler of the state Democrat party (and therefore in charge of dispersing campaign funds) in a state that is solidly Democratic, he has lots of leverage to get his agenda implemented.  Republicans are powerless to stop him, and the Democrats are afraid to cross him for fear of losing campaign funding.  He can stand to lose a few seats in order to teach the rest a lesson.

I just moved to Indiana, in part because of IL's mess.

Of course, I'm the one who just pissed off her mother because the mother is isolated, ignorant, and acting slightly irrationally. And mom will not stop trying to talk politics with me, despite this not being the first, or even 10th time. No, I am not going to respect an opinion that makes no sense and is based on nothing other than rumors you heard at the grocery store. And you don't get to yell at me for not giving Trump a chance, not after you spent 8 years convinced that Obama was a Muslim and the Devil incarnate and born in Kenya.

Obama - smokes, drinks, supports gay and women's rights... WORST MUSLIM EVER!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3189 on: July 07, 2017, 07:00:55 AM »
Me too.  The Illinois senate just voted for a 33% income tax increase (up to 5%), on top of our 3% effective property tax rate and 8.25% total sales tax.

Time to vote with your feet and take your tax dollars elsewhere. We moved to TX from IL 7 years ago and haven't looked back. Property tax here is somewhat high (2.3% effective for us) and the sales tax is the same but the lack of a state income tax puts us way ahead. I've got that money in the market instead of sitting in Springfield's coffers.

We will definitely be moving to a low property tax state when we retire. At that point I won't really care what the income tax is because we'll be "poor" (low income).
The funny thing is that we moved from TX to IL 6 years ago.  I took a pay cut in the process as well, but I enjoy my work here a lot more.  I'm trying to convince my bosses (small company/partnership) to move the company elsewhere.  Just the saved property taxes alone would amount to a huge raise.

It's sad. We have friends that live in a great area, in the northwest corner of the state. LCOL, and really pleasant overall. We joking said, "we could easily move here". They instantly and solemnly responded with, "nobody should intentionally moved to state that's run this poorly, unless you have no other choice".

We're not that far behind Illinois here in Pennsylvania. The parties are reversed, but we're facing a downgrade, the legislature and the governor can't work anything out, and our pension debt is a disaster.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3190 on: July 07, 2017, 08:01:20 AM »
We're not that far behind Illinois here in Pennsylvania. The parties are reversed, but we're facing a downgrade, the legislature and the governor can't work anything out, and our pension debt is a disaster.

www.uhaul.com

I love the username by the way. "Oh, you don't know what a barrel shroud is? Because it's in your legislation..."

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3191 on: July 07, 2017, 08:14:22 AM »
Me too.  The Illinois senate just voted for a 33% income tax increase (up to 5%), on top of our 3% effective property tax rate and 8.25% total sales tax.

Time to vote with your feet and take your tax dollars elsewhere. We moved to TX from IL 7 years ago and haven't looked back. Property tax here is somewhat high (2.3% effective for us) and the sales tax is the same but the lack of a state income tax puts us way ahead. I've got that money in the market instead of sitting in Springfield's coffers.

We will definitely be moving to a low property tax state when we retire. At that point I won't really care what the income tax is because we'll be "poor" (low income).
The funny thing is that we moved from TX to IL 6 years ago.  I took a pay cut in the process as well, but I enjoy my work here a lot more.  I'm trying to convince my bosses (small company/partnership) to move the company elsewhere.  Just the saved property taxes alone would amount to a huge raise.

It's sad. We have friends that live in a great area, in the northwest corner of the state. LCOL, and really pleasant overall. We joking said, "we could easily move here". They instantly and solemnly responded with, "nobody should intentionally moved to state that's run this poorly, unless you have no other choice".

We're not that far behind Illinois here in Pennsylvania. The parties are reversed, but we're facing a downgrade, the legislature and the governor can't work anything out, and our pension debt is a disaster.
Corruption/incompetence isn't partisan.  Some days I'm surprised the US is doing as well as it is.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3192 on: July 07, 2017, 08:18:00 AM »
Me too.  The Illinois senate just voted for a 33% income tax increase (up to 5%), on top of our 3% effective property tax rate and 8.25% total sales tax.

Time to vote with your feet and take your tax dollars elsewhere. We moved to TX from IL 7 years ago and haven't looked back. Property tax here is somewhat high (2.3% effective for us) and the sales tax is the same but the lack of a state income tax puts us way ahead. I've got that money in the market instead of sitting in Springfield's coffers.

We will definitely be moving to a low property tax state when we retire. At that point I won't really care what the income tax is because we'll be "poor" (low income).
The funny thing is that we moved from TX to IL 6 years ago.  I took a pay cut in the process as well, but I enjoy my work here a lot more.  I'm trying to convince my bosses (small company/partnership) to move the company elsewhere.  Just the saved property taxes alone would amount to a huge raise.

It's sad. We have friends that live in a great area, in the northwest corner of the state. LCOL, and really pleasant overall. We joking said, "we could easily move here". They instantly and solemnly responded with, "nobody should intentionally moved to state that's run this poorly, unless you have no other choice".

We're not that far behind Illinois here in Pennsylvania. The parties are reversed, but we're facing a downgrade, the legislature and the governor can't work anything out, and our pension debt is a disaster.
Corruption/incompetence isn't partisan.  Some days I'm surprised the US is doing as well as it is.

What's saving us, I think, is the fact that there's such a low cost-to-exchange. Elections are frequent enough and generally reliable enough to guarantee we can generally get rid of a corrupt idiot and replace him or her with someone else (also likely to be a corrupt idiot, but once in office it takes them a while to gain enough traction to do serious damage, during which time things tend to actually get done).

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3193 on: July 07, 2017, 09:06:48 AM »
Corruption/incompetence isn't partisan.  Some days I'm surprised the US is doing as well as it is.

I've become convinced that it's just inertia at this point.

I work in IT, and I've spent a lot of time dealing with large telecom companies. They're shockingly incompetent, and completely indifferent to the needs and desires of customers, but they're the only game in town and people just keep giving them money out of habit. A similar phenomenon exists to keep the US moving along.

cheapass

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3194 on: July 07, 2017, 09:17:16 AM »
Corruption/incompetence isn't partisan.  Some days I'm surprised the US is doing as well as it is.

I've become convinced that it's just inertia at this point.

I work in IT, and I've spent a lot of time dealing with large telecom companies. They're shockingly incompetent, and completely indifferent to the needs and desires of customers, but they're the only game in town and people just keep giving them money out of habit. A similar phenomenon exists to keep the US moving along.

A coworker and I were pondering this one day. I think most companies make pretty smart decisions when they're small and growing but at some point, once they reach critical mass, too many middle managers exist and too many dumb ideas start flying around and from that point forward it's just a big retarded company.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3195 on: July 07, 2017, 09:30:39 AM »
Corruption/incompetence isn't partisan.  Some days I'm surprised the US is doing as well as it is.

I've become convinced that it's just inertia at this point.

I work in IT, and I've spent a lot of time dealing with large telecom companies. They're shockingly incompetent, and completely indifferent to the needs and desires of customers, but they're the only game in town and people just keep giving them money out of habit. A similar phenomenon exists to keep the US moving along.

A coworker and I were pondering this one day. I think most companies make pretty smart decisions when they're small and growing but at some point, once they reach critical mass, too many middle managers exist and too many dumb ideas start flying around and from that point forward it's just a big retarded company.

My company has the opposite problem. The middle managers and people with the actual experience from past companies know what works and what doesn't, but the CEO and a few others at corporate are idiotic. They frequently make decisions to purchase cheap equipment despite it having more problems and low output, versus getting the good stuff that will just WORK. Somehow "you get what you pay for" is followed with their personal belongings like cars and laptops but not on the business level.
Or keeping a company around as a customer that isn't making us any money (luckily we lost that customer from not meeting their needs! of course everyone at corporate was upset, yet we were all happy at my plant). All it takes is to look at the numbers. Like, gradeschool level math. Another great example is us selling a new product for really cheap, because apparently we price matched a similar product that was sold from China...NINE years ago. Now we barely make any profit. CEO likes to make decisions without consulting anyone else, then it's too late.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3196 on: July 07, 2017, 04:07:42 PM »
Me too.  The Illinois senate just voted for a 33% income tax increase (up to 5%), on top of our 3% effective property tax rate and 8.25% total sales tax.

Time to vote with your feet and take your tax dollars elsewhere. We moved to TX from IL 7 years ago and haven't looked back. Property tax here is somewhat high (2.3% effective for us) and the sales tax is the same but the lack of a state income tax puts us way ahead. I've got that money in the market instead of sitting in Springfield's coffers.

We will definitely be moving to a low property tax state when we retire. At that point I won't really care what the income tax is because we'll be "poor" (low income).
The funny thing is that we moved from TX to IL 6 years ago.  I took a pay cut in the process as well, but I enjoy my work here a lot more.  I'm trying to convince my bosses (small company/partnership) to move the company elsewhere.  Just the saved property taxes alone would amount to a huge raise.

It's sad. We have friends that live in a great area, in the northwest corner of the state. LCOL, and really pleasant overall. We joking said, "we could easily move here". They instantly and solemnly responded with, "nobody should intentionally moved to state that's run this poorly, unless you have no other choice".

We're not that far behind Illinois here in Pennsylvania. The parties are reversed, but we're facing a downgrade, the legislature and the governor can't work anything out, and our pension debt is a disaster.

Yea, here in PA. we have a repub. legislative body that refuses to engage in tax reform, even though it's common knowledge that our school funding situation is a mess that results in wildly unfair taxation. They are the kings of corporate welfare, dishing out 800 million a year. This does nothing but lubricate the system, since we are at the bottom in job creation, and  always ranked in the top five in overall corruption. The pension mess is a two part disaster, with the state failing to contribute for many years, in violation of their own laws, and the midnight dealings to increase pensions for certain groups, while  everybody was asleep. Even with all that mess, we have a long way to go before we catch up with IL.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3197 on: July 08, 2017, 01:58:01 AM »

My company has the opposite problem. The middle managers and people with the actual experience from past companies know what works and what doesn't, but the CEO and a few others at corporate are idiotic. They frequently make decisions to purchase cheap equipment despite it having more problems and low output, versus getting the good stuff that will just WORK. Somehow "you get what you pay for" is followed with their personal belongings like cars and laptops but not on the business level.
Or keeping a company around as a customer that isn't making us any money (luckily we lost that customer from not meeting their needs! of course everyone at corporate was upset, yet we were all happy at my plant). All it takes is to look at the numbers. Like, gradeschool level math. Another great example is us selling a new product for really cheap, because apparently we price matched a similar product that was sold from China...NINE years ago. Now we barely make any profit. CEO likes to make decisions without consulting anyone else, then it's too late.
Before I left work we had much the same problem.  Adverts for top management jobs were filled with "essential skills" like "leadership" and "team working" and at the bottom would add as "desirable" actually knowing something about the job that needed doing.  After a few years of this almost the entire top management consisted of skilled bullshitters, while corporate knowledge and the ability to get things done routinely or pull rabbits out of hats resided with skilled mid-level workers.  Then of course came austerity layoffs, at which point a large number of skilled mid-level workers (including me) took voluntary redundancy packages and freed ourselves from the bullshit for ever more.  The organisation trundles on, but I do occasionally hear of things going wrong and can tell exactly why and how without needing the details.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3198 on: July 10, 2017, 06:18:39 AM »
Then, the big issue: Michael Madigan. He has been the worst thing to happen to this state, even worse than Blago. I am not happy with our current governor, but I'll keep voting Republican in every possible election for our state until Michael Madigan is out of office. He is a scourge on the state. He's been speaker of the house since 1983 (except for two years in the 90's), and the biggest political bully in this states history.

Ah, I won't go into it any more. Its just raising my blood pressure.
Yup.  When the Speaker of the House is also the ruler of the state Democrat party (and therefore in charge of dispersing campaign funds) in a state that is solidly Democratic, he has lots of leverage to get his agenda implemented.  Republicans are powerless to stop him, and the Democrats are afraid to cross him for fear of losing campaign funding.  He can stand to lose a few seats in order to teach the rest a lesson.

I just moved to Indiana, in part because of IL's mess.

Of course, I'm the one who just pissed off her mother because the mother is isolated, ignorant, and acting slightly irrationally. And mom will not stop trying to talk politics with me, despite this not being the first, or even 10th time. No, I am not going to respect an opinion that makes no sense and is based on nothing other than rumors you heard at the grocery store. And you don't get to yell at me for not giving Trump a chance, not after you spent 8 years convinced that Obama was a Muslim and the Devil incarnate and born in Kenya.

Obama - smokes, drinks, supports gay and women's rights... WORST MUSLIM EVER!
Muslims don't support gay rights? All assumptions and potential bigotry aside, that's just a plain false statement. Every Muslim in the German parliament voted FOR gay marriage.
Every.
Single.
One.
It was the only group that voted unanimously.
"... Most Germans and all Muslim MPs believe in equality."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/angela-merkel-chancellor-germany-same-sex-marriage-vote-lgbt-muslim-mps-berlin-bundestag-cdu-sdp-a7819391.html

Please fact-check before you spout ignorance in the name of humor.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3199 on: July 10, 2017, 07:02:27 AM »
Obama - smokes, drinks, supports gay and women's rights... WORST MUSLIM EVER!
Muslims don't support gay rights? All assumptions and potential bigotry aside, that's just a plain false statement. Every Muslim in the German parliament voted FOR gay marriage.
Every.
Single.
One.
It was the only group that voted unanimously.
"... Most Germans and all Muslim MPs believe in equality."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/angela-merkel-chancellor-germany-same-sex-marriage-vote-lgbt-muslim-mps-berlin-bundestag-cdu-sdp-a7819391.html

Please fact-check before you spout ignorance in the name of humor.

FWIW, there are a lot of places in the US where "So-and-so smokes, drinks, supports gay and women's rights... WORST CHRISTIAN EVER!" could be said with a straight face.

Obviously, both religions have various sects that determine what makes a "good" member of the faith. What is acceptable in a Methodist church may not be in Roman Catholicism or Mormonism. That said, prohibitions on smoking and drinking are more common in Islam than in Christianity. Views on gay rights and women's rights seem to vary more by local culture than by prevailing sect.

And, there are only 6 Muslims in the 630-member Bundestag (despite Muslims being ~5% of the population). They are members of the leftist Green Party (4), center-right CDU/CSU (1), and center-left SPD (1), all of which supported the new law on a party level. European Muslims tend to support left-wing groups, as right-wing parties are often explicitly anti-Muslim.