Relatives who just don't get it

[Kitsune]

Basically: my side of the family is very used to large houses (my parents just "downsized" down from 7000sq feet, and their "retirement" house is still bigger than the house we're building and planning on raising a family in), buying whatever they want/need, and no budgeting. So... seeing chickens, sheep, rabbits, smaller house, country living... they just Do Not Get It At All.

I'm looking at houses right now and I don't think I could even buy a 7000 sq foot house without traveling for 45 minutes, or buying a 2 million dollar historic mansion(complete with servants quarters).  Mind blowing. 

I have looked at a few 2000 sq. ft. houses, and they are overwhelmingly big, but I guess it's a matter of perspective since I grew up in in a 1350 sq ft and a 1500 sq ft house.

Well, in my parents case, they bought a falling-apart 1800s "farmhouse" (the kind of "farmhouse" that includes servants quarters) and then spent 20 years renovating it room by room (via contractor. Because obviously you would never do construction yourself, it might save money..) So the historic mansion isn't far off... (And it sold for somewhat less than 1 million, should such a property ever interest you. Personally, I look at it and at the necessary maintenance and want to run screaming.)

[forummm]

Basically: my side of the family is very used to large houses (my parents just "downsized" down from 7000sq feet, and their "retirement" house is still bigger than the house we're building and planning on raising a family in), buying whatever they want/need, and no budgeting. So... seeing chickens, sheep, rabbits, smaller house, country living... they just Do Not Get It At All.

I'm looking at houses right now and I don't think I could even buy a 7000 sq foot house without traveling for 45 minutes, or buying a 2 million dollar historic mansion(complete with servants quarters).  Mind blowing. 

I have looked at a few 2000 sq. ft. houses, and they are overwhelmingly big, but I guess it's a matter of perspective since I grew up in in a 1350 sq ft and a 1500 sq ft house.

Well, in my parents case, they bought a falling-apart 1800s "farmhouse" (the kind of "farmhouse" that includes servants quarters) and then spent 20 years renovating it room by room (via contractor. Because obviously you would never do construction yourself, it might save money..) So the historic mansion isn't far off... (And it sold for somewhat less than 1 million, should such a property ever interest you. Personally, I look at it and at the necessary maintenance and want to run screaming.)

Seems like "servants" quarters needed quotes too...

[onehair]

I was forced to accompany my aunt grocery shopping Thursday as part of my promise to my mother.  While in the store I observed she seemed to have no concept of coupons, store specials or even shopping with a list.  I pointed out she could purchase store brand items such as ketchup mustard and mayonnaise since the quality is usually the same but it fell on deaf ears.  I pointed out some of the meats had those instant coupons on them she seemed to disdain those and go for prepared foods the most expensive ones. 

[Syonyk]

You... You wouldn't people at the store to think you were poor!

[lostamonkey]

I was forced to accompany my aunt grocery shopping Thursday as part of my promise to my mother.  While in the store I observed she seemed to have no concept of coupons, store specials or even shopping with a list.  I pointed out she could purchase store brand items such as ketchup mustard and mayonnaise since the quality is usually the same but it fell on deaf ears.  I pointed out some of the meats had those instant coupons on them she seemed to disdain those and go for prepared foods the most expensive ones.

Grocery shopping with non-frugal people can be pretty interesting. It's like they don't care at all about money, and have no idea what they need.

[forummm]

I was forced to accompany my aunt grocery shopping Thursday as part of my promise to my mother.  While in the store I observed she seemed to have no concept of coupons, store specials or even shopping with a list.  I pointed out she could purchase store brand items such as ketchup mustard and mayonnaise since the quality is usually the same but it fell on deaf ears.  I pointed out some of the meats had those instant coupons on them she seemed to disdain those and go for prepared foods the most expensive ones.

Grocery shopping with non-frugal people can be pretty interesting. It's like they don't care at all about money, and have no idea what they need.

Yeah, it kills me. They don't even look at the other options within a few feet of them. They could literally save a dollar or even several dollars by grabbing an equivalent item just right over there if they pause and think about it for a minute. Over a lifetime that's tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[lostamonkey]

I was forced to accompany my aunt grocery shopping Thursday as part of my promise to my mother.  While in the store I observed she seemed to have no concept of coupons, store specials or even shopping with a list.  I pointed out she could purchase store brand items such as ketchup mustard and mayonnaise since the quality is usually the same but it fell on deaf ears.  I pointed out some of the meats had those instant coupons on them she seemed to disdain those and go for prepared foods the most expensive ones.

Grocery shopping with non-frugal people can be pretty interesting. It's like they don't care at all about money, and have no idea what they need.

Yeah, it kills me. They don't even look at the other options within a few feet of them. They could literally save a dollar or even several dollars by grabbing an equivalent item just right over there if they pause and think about it for a minute. Over a lifetime that's tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I agree, it's somewhat understandable to pay extra for "quality" but paying extra for exactly the same product doesn't make sense to me. These people also tend to buy such small quantities of things that take a long time to expire so they pay a higher price per unit.

[onehair]

Did I mention my aunt also begged my mom for $50 to cover cabfare to and from the house to her doctor's appt?  Unless she would have been advised not to return home alone due to the  effects of the tests she could have gotten there and back for about one quarter of the cost via Metro.

On the upside, my mom has FINALLY cut my uncle off for good due to the fact he never came to see my aunt when she was in the hospital!  I wanted her to do it in May but better late than never.   She is mailing him a final check and has told him to not contact her.   She said even though my aunt is a pain she is still family and it would have cost him nothing to come see her while she was ill.  The reason why doesn't matter to me long as it was done...she even said she felt bad for not being able to help me get my hair done :-) but I told her not to feel guilty about that that's why I work and hustle to provide for myself.

[LeRainDrop]

Did I mention my aunt also begged my mom for $50 to cover cabfare to and from the house to her doctor's appt?  Unless she would have been advised not to return home alone due to the  effects of the tests she could have gotten there and back for about one quarter of the cost via Metro.

Uh, so why didn't your aunt take the metro to get to the doctor's office, and then the cab back home?  I would assume she didn't experience any effects from the tests until after they were actually performed.

[onehair]

I will find out once my mother returns from her out of town trip.  She travels to get breaks from my aunt and uncle.  She was already suspicious my aunt would use the money for other purposes than cab fare. 
I did manage to give my mom a Mustachian gift.  She loves old radio shows so I got my paws on The Shadow audio files, put them on a flash drive, put the drive in a mini organza bag I had and handed it to her.  I also loaded it with BBC's Modesty Blaise and a black history audio book.

[zephyr911]

Uh, so why didn't your aunt take the metro to get to the doctor's office, and then the cab back home?  I would assume she didn't experience any effects from the tests until after they were actually performed.

It's a rare condition known as "anticipatory disability".

[ahoy]

My soon to be ex stupid relative is trying to take my other relative to the cleaners.  This is will be a very messy divorce.   She's got her lawyer involved with stupid mundane stuff,  thinks she has access to a large sum of legal aid.  I presume she will have to pay it back once the assets are split. 

[cripzychiken]

My MIL doesn't know how to use her smart phone.  After setting up her email, downloading her favorite games and showing her how to use messaging, she was happy.  After that she started asking me EVERY single stupid question she could think of.  Everything from how do you change the volume (After having the phone for over a year) to more reasonable questions like how to change the background photo.  I honestly had to tell her - I don't have that type of phone, idk how to change that setting, maybe she should google it. (She lives 3+ hours away, so I was trying to do all this while talking to her on the phone - she wouldn't even call from another phone).

So after 2 months of this, she sells her phone and buys the exact same one I have.  Now on top of all the stupid questions, I also get to hear about how I forced her to sell the phone she loved and made her get this POS phone she can't stand.

So much for trying to be nice and help.

[forummm]

My MIL doesn't know how to use her smart phone.  After setting up her email, downloading her favorite games and showing her how to use messaging, she was happy.  After that she started asking me EVERY single stupid question she could think of.  Everything from how do you change the volume (After having the phone for over a year) to more reasonable questions like how to change the background photo.  I honestly had to tell her - I don't have that type of phone, idk how to change that setting, maybe she should google it. (She lives 3+ hours away, so I was trying to do all this while talking to her on the phone - she wouldn't even call from another phone).

So after 2 months of this, she sells her phone and buys the exact same one I have.  Now on top of all the stupid questions, I also get to hear about how I forced her to sell the phone she loved and made her get this POS phone she can't stand.

So much for trying to be nice and help.

HAHAHA! Oh, what a terrible, sneaky lady!

[Dollar Slice]

I honestly had to tell her - I don't have that type of phone, idk how to change that setting, maybe she should google it. (She lives 3+ hours away, so I was trying to do all this while talking to her on the phone - she wouldn't even call from another phone).

Oh man, this is my life right here. Everyone in my family, and everyone in my office, is on iDevices, and I'm the only one who uses Android. Who do they constantly ask for tech support? Me. I can't tell you how many times I've googled something and then read the answer to someone because they couldn't figure out how to do this themselves.

I don't mind so much when it's an elderly person who genuinely can't figure out Google, but when my boss's iPhone's e-mail app stops working for the 40th time in two years and she still has no idea what to do about it....aaagh.

[Squirrel away]

One of my in-laws (living on a tiny pension) washes her car with a jet wash before she takes it for a professional car wash.

[forummm]

One of my in-laws (living on a tiny pension) washes her car with a jet wash before she takes it for a professional car wash.

Some relatives clean their house before their house cleaners come. Also, they have house cleaners.

[Squirrel away]

One of my in-laws (living on a tiny pension) washes her car with a jet wash before she takes it for a professional car wash.

Some relatives clean their house before their house cleaners come. Also, they have house cleaners.

Actually I have to come clean (no pun intended ha) but I used to do that before my cleaner arrived.

That was back in the bad old days when we both earned a decent salary, had credit card debt and spent more than we made each and every month. Lol.

[forummm]

One of my in-laws (living on a tiny pension) washes her car with a jet wash before she takes it for a professional car wash.

Some relatives clean their house before their house cleaners come. Also, they have house cleaners.

Actually I have to come clean (no pun intended ha) but I used to do that before my cleaner arrived.

Is there a good reason to do this?

[Candace]

I used to have a house cleaning service. We did need to pick our stuff up off the floor, and off the counters or dressers so that they could clean. Merry Maids also wanted us to get the stuff off the bathroom counter, which I thought was a bit much. But actually clean, as in remove dirt, or vacuum, or dust? No siree.

The main point is that a cleaning service is there to clean, but to expect them to pick up your clutter so they can clean is expecting too much of them. First of all, they don't know where your stuff goes, so for them to neaten it up could just cause more confusion. Second, depending on how much stuff their clients have lying around, it could take up so much time that they couldn't clean in a reasonable amount of time. Cleaning is different from de-cluttering and I understand that they have to draw the line at moving too much stuff around before cleaning. Even signing up to washing someone's dirty dishes as part of a cleaning service could set the service up for being taken advantage of.

In my area, Merry Maids sells their time by the hour at an hourly rate. The client gives a list of priorities and the maids go down the list until the time is done. I think that's a good way of doing things. That way if people leave their junk around everywhere and the service has to move it to clean, each task takes longer and fewer of the priorities get done. It's fair.

[BlueHouse]

One of my in-laws (living on a tiny pension) washes her car with a jet wash before she takes it for a professional car wash.

Some relatives clean their house before their house cleaners come. Also, they have house cleaners.

Actually I have to come clean (no pun intended ha) but I used to do that before my cleaner arrived.

Is there a good reason to do this?

Yes, you want the housecleaners to spend their time doing the things that you don't want to do.  I have housecleaners come biweekly.  I like to keep my home nice and tidy, but sometimes I just don't get around to putting something away or I have an ongoing project.  Every other Monday, everything I own finds a home and many projects get done that would otherwise linger for months. 

I run the dishwasher and unload it before they come because I don't want them to spend the time doing that.  I usually empty the shredder into recycling before they come because I want it stapled in a paper bag and put into the recycling bin.  If I don't do that, sometimes I find it in a plastic bag in the trash bin. 

I have two bathrooms that I generally do not use and sometimes I put toothpaste in the sinks of those bathrooms just so they have the feeling of accomplishment. 

[Squirrel away]

One of my in-laws (living on a tiny pension) washes her car with a jet wash before she takes it for a professional car wash.

Some relatives clean their house before their house cleaners come. Also, they have house cleaners.

Actually I have to come clean (no pun intended ha) but I used to do that before my cleaner arrived.

Is there a good reason to do this?

My cleaner was a cleaner from my work so I didn't want her thinking I was a total slob.

[Hummer]

One of my in-laws (living on a tiny pension) washes her car with a jet wash before she takes it for a professional car wash.

Some relatives clean their house before their house cleaners come. Also, they have house cleaners.

Actually I have to come clean (no pun intended ha) but I used to do that before my cleaner arrived.

Is there a good reason to do this?

Yes, you want the housecleaners to spend their time doing the things that you don't want to do.  I have housecleaners come biweekly.  I like to keep my home nice and tidy, but sometimes I just don't get around to putting something away or I have an ongoing project.  Every other Monday, everything I own finds a home and many projects get done that would otherwise linger for months. 

I run the dishwasher and unload it before they come because I don't want them to spend the time doing that.  I usually empty the shredder into recycling before they come because I want it stapled in a paper bag and put into the recycling bin.  If I don't do that, sometimes I find it in a plastic bag in the trash bin. 

I have two bathrooms that I generally do not use and sometimes I put toothpaste in the sinks of those bathrooms just so they have the feeling of accomplishment.

I'm sorry but that is bizarre.

[zephyr911]

Yes, you want the housecleaners to spend their time doing the things that you don't want to do.  I have housecleaners come biweekly.  I like to keep my home nice and tidy, but sometimes I just don't get around to putting something away or I have an ongoing project.  Every other Monday, everything I own finds a home and many projects get done that would otherwise linger for months. 

I run the dishwasher and unload it before they come because I don't want them to spend the time doing that.  I usually empty the shredder into recycling before they come because I want it stapled in a paper bag and put into the recycling bin.  If I don't do that, sometimes I find it in a plastic bag in the trash bin. 

I have two bathrooms that I generally do not use and sometimes I put toothpaste in the sinks of those bathrooms just so they have the feeling of accomplishment.

Do you also call it CDO instead of OCD, because the letters need to be in alphabetical order? xD

[Catbert]

Boy od I have some financially irresponsible relatives.  Luckily they are all relateed to me by marriage rather than blood so it's easier to see the comedy.

A couple of years ago I sent 5K checks out of the blue to my step-children (and widow of step-son).  My step-son's widow called me literally in tears becasus I had gotten her out of a horrible debt.  She had borrowed money (car title loan??) at what she thought was 10% interest.  But she noticed that the balance barely budged.  Then she figured out it was 10% A MONTH.  Now this is a woman in her 50's who makes okay money (30 years as union grocery checker) but has no understanding of money.

I guess it's not surprising that this woman's ~20 yo daughter called her uncle from a car dealership to ask him about "a great deal" she was being offered.  She had an used car with a payment on it.  The new car dealer was offering to sell her a new car and finance it such that her payment was lower.  Her mom thought it was a good idea.  Her uncle told her to leave the dealership and then call him.  Luckily he convinced her it was a lousy deal.

[Zamboni]

Ugh, just want to chime with a rant about my family. Didn't want to start a whole new thread and this seems just as good a place as any.

I'll start with my Dad and his wife. They are both in their early 70s. They bought a modest house 15 years ago but now have a mortgage that is over $30K more than they originally paid for the house (bought for ~$190K, owe ~$220K now). Both took social security the instant they were eligible rather than waiting and so their combined social security income is only a few hundred a month more than their mortgage payment. Although they have each been reasonably high income earners, they have always been self employed and I believe they have under-reported income for years to avoid taxes which is now resulting in less social security. They have no other savings at all, so they both continue to work part time although they complain about it. They have inherited a couple of windfalls in the past decade but those got spent and are gone.

When I was in my 20's and 30's, Dad was earning a lot of money but still racking up huge credit card debt, although none of it was spent on me, thankfully. His wife seems to be just as bad with money, having declared bankruptcy a few years before they got married. Hopefully they have paid off some of the massive credit card debt they once told me they had; I don't even ask.

I love my Dad, but he has made many, many bad financial and personal choices in his life. A few years ago he seemed to realize that he will have to work until he dies, which is a sad thought and his health is steadily failing now. While I don't want to see him suffer, his choices are his choices and not within my circle of control, so therefore his problems are not my problems. But, his wife has started to share their sad financial situation, which is why I know about the huge mortgage, low social security earned, and complete lack of savings over the course of their lives. It became clear from some of what she said that neither of them even keeps the check book properly balanced, so they flounder around from month to month. She insinuated the last time we saw them that I need to be helping them out financially. Um, no, that's just not going to happen. It would just be throwing good money after bad. Frankly their lifetime of total irresponsibility pisses me off a little bit.

My brother and his wife also are not saving money. They give and give to others, which is noble, but when it comes to money they have nothing left over for themselves. Now they are in their 40's, both self employed, and still not saving for retirement. Brother is a great provider but works in a physically demanding trade, which is becoming another concern as he ages. He seems aware of this and is trying to figure out how one of his sons can take over the business. I really hope that works out for him. They have a large family and one child is disabled and might not ever be able to live independently (I hope I'm wrong about that, but that seems to be the case.) Thankfully they stay out of debt. Other than their lack of savings for themselves, they seem to be pretty wise about money. When they do ask for money, it is always for a very noble cause, so I sometimes make a small contribution, but I honestly wish they would start considering their own financial futures just a little more.

On the bright side, my Mom is extremely frugal and debt-averse. Unfortunately, although she has saved up some money, she doesn't trust banks and considers any investment as "gambling," so she loses money to inflation every year. Also, in a fit of paranoia over social security running out, she started drawing social security at 62 despite the fact that all of her female relatives lived well into their 90's. She is now in her mid 70's and perfectly healthy. Thankfully, her big purchase decisions are very few and far between and her burn rate is remarkably low, so I suspect she will be fine. She's pretty much a poster child for how voluntarily curbing all expenses makes retirement possible.

If I won a huge lottery jackpot, sure I would help all of my family out. But, newsflash, I don't play the lottery, so that's never going to happen either.

/rant

[forummm]

Yeah. It's hard to watch people consistently screw themselves over with decision after decision.

Your parents leave their savings in paper cash? Oy. Don't they trust the federal government with the FDIC guarantee? What about during the extreme banking crisis we just had? No one with <$250k in a single bank lost a penny of that money, or even had to wait more than a couple days to pull out cash. Usually the FDIC takes over a failed bank on the weekend so it's normal business operations are not impacted, and it opens 9am Monday like always.

[Zamboni]

^Yes I was able to convince my Mom of that.  At one point she got mad at a bank over some small fee and had ALL of her money in physical cash in her house stashed in places like fake plants, but when she showed me this I pointed out a house fire wiping out her money was more likely than losing it in a bank failure. So now she has it scattered all over town at several different banks in CD's and safe deposit boxes.

At least she has some actual money to her name . . . no one else in my family seems to be able to manage that for very long. If either my brother or Dad becomes physically unable to work, they will be in dire straits pretty quickly.

It just makes me sad :-(

[forummm]

She doesn't trust banks so she puts her money in safety deposit boxes...at banks. People are crazy.

The CDs are FDIC insured. Cash in a box in a vault is not.

[Cassie]

It sounds like your Dad & his wife should sell the house & live in a small apartment if the house is worth what they owe. Very sad indeed.

[Catbert]

After my MIL died her children were getting a small inheritance (~15K) from the sale of her trailer and lot.  One of my SIL's was really counting on the house closing on a particular date.   Closing slipped by several days (not an unusual occurrence IME).  She called her sister in a panic b/c they literally had no money and no food in the house.  I mean wouldn't you spend every penny of your pay check and your husband's military retirement check on crap if you were getting an inheritance in a week???  Me neither, but it seemed normal to her.  Her sister didn't have any money to send her, but referred her to her church pantry.   

Same SIL lives in a relatively rural area where a car is a necessity.  They always seem to over pay for vehicles and then finance at high interest rates.  They  have a Harley Davidson motorcycle bought used but is still upside down in value after owning for 3-4 years.  I can't imagine what the interest rate and term are.  SIL thinks of it as free b/c the payments are made via allotment over of her DHs retirement pay.  I thought they were starting to made slightly better vehicle decision b/c they kept one truck for long enough to pay off and then kept it.  But they must have gotten a title loan on it b/c it was repossessed about 6 months ago.  So then they had two jobs and one motorcycle.  Solution when you have no money?  She shifted to part-time so she could get rides and carpool!  After she inherited the 15K they got another vehicle.  Now in their situation I would have bought a 5K small car with cash and paid debts with the rest.  But no, they got the best (i.e., most expensive) vehicle with the least amount down they could find.  With their credit I don't want to imagine the interest rate or term.

[sleepyguy]

From my GF's side, her cousin... he's quite older at 55 or so.  Let this be a warning for those who don't budget and "blow" money on everything.  Currently he's hit ROCK BOTTOM, kicked out of the house living back in with his 75yr old mom.  Basic summary is...

- He's always worked in IT, making around $90-150k/yr, but he was usually on contract for 1-2yrs.  Always jumping around.
- Never saves, ANYTHING... and as a contractor no RRSP (401k) matching programs or pension or what not.
- Has 3 boys, they have EVERY toy known to man... I recall when I first met his 3 sons (all under 10yrs old)... they all had Ipads, yes the top of line $700 models.  Ridonkulous, and he was preaching how "educational" they are... whatever, I read old skool paper books to my kids.
- Huge vacations all the time with family of 5, $$$.
- house is NOT paid off still til this day... yes he's 55 right now.  house is worth about $450k, they still have like 250k mortgage on it.
- owes other family members over $100k for taxes (he was a contractor and didn't set aside, absurd i know)
- lost a ton of $$$ on very poorly thought out business ventures.

So fast forward to present time,
- he's been unemployed for about 7yrs now, won't get a "low" paying job, he has 'niche' IT skillset, and thinks jobs making under $80k is 'beneath' him
- broken married due to poor money management (mostly so, but there were other things)
- avg. over $100k/yr for over 30yrs, has just about $100k networth (house split), but he owes $100k to family, so networth is zero or negative
- moved back in with is 75yr old mom
- begging family members for mortgage payments, he's been calling everyone discreetly, telling them he needs some cash for renovations to sell the house, etc... then "don't tell others" etc etc.
- he's got serious health issues due to stress (taken to emergency room a few times)

Sad story all around...

[Goldielocks]

One of my in-laws (living on a tiny pension) washes her car with a jet wash before she takes it for a professional car wash.

Some relatives clean their house before their house cleaners come. Also, they have house cleaners.

Actually I have to come clean (no pun intended ha) but I used to do that before my cleaner arrived.

Is there a good reason to do this?

ARGH  I tried a cleaning lady for a couple of months when my DH was laid up and I was at my wit's end. 

Yes, I had to do this (and clean, too not just the normal pickup of stuff), because the darn cleaning lady kept changing the day when she would come.   For things like a kids' special school event or whatever.  As a fellow Mom, I was saying yes to these reasonable requests, but....   This meant anywhere up to 10 days between cleaning, and you bet that there would always be a guest invited over at around day 9 that I had to make the washroom and living area presentable for..

Combine that with my DH's belief that he no longer had to do ANY house chores as the cleaning person would do it, I ended up paying someone and still putting in just as many hours, covering DH's now left undone picking up / dishes / quick sweep of kitchen chores.

Last straw was when I realized that she could afford to drive a nicer car than I did (New model Ford sedan, but still....).   Farewell!  Never again for anything but a one-off need in future.

[Friar]

Last straw was when I realized that she could afford to drive a nicer car than I did (New model Ford sedan, but still....).   Farewell!  Never again for anything but a one-off need in future.

As we know well on this forum, there is a difference between having a new car and being able to afford it ;)

[Goldielocks]

Last straw was when I realized that she could afford to drive a nicer car than I did (New model Ford sedan, but still....).   Farewell!  Never again for anything but a one-off need in future.

As we know well on this forum, there is a difference between having a new car and being able to afford it ;)

Don't I know it!  But paying her $25 per hour certainly must have helped.

[forummm]

Last straw was when I realized that she could afford to drive a nicer car than I did (New model Ford sedan, but still....).   Farewell!  Never again for anything but a one-off need in future.

As we know well on this forum, there is a difference between having a new car and being able to afford it ;)

Don't I know it!  But paying her $25 per hour certainly must have helped.

Sounds like I should be a house cleaner as my retirement job. Why did I waste all that time getting all these degrees?

[Gray Matter]

Last straw was when I realized that she could afford to drive a nicer car than I did (New model Ford sedan, but still....).   Farewell!  Never again for anything but a one-off need in future.

As we know well on this forum, there is a difference between having a new car and being able to afford it ;)

Don't I know it!  But paying her $25 per hour certainly must have helped.

Sounds like I should be a house cleaner as my retirement job. Why did I waste all that time getting all these degrees?

I was paying $30-35/hour back in the good old (ignorant) days when I had a house cleaner.

[forummm]

Last straw was when I realized that she could afford to drive a nicer car than I did (New model Ford sedan, but still....).   Farewell!  Never again for anything but a one-off need in future.

As we know well on this forum, there is a difference between having a new car and being able to afford it ;)

Don't I know it!  But paying her $25 per hour certainly must have helped.

Sounds like I should be a house cleaner as my retirement job. Why did I waste all that time getting all these degrees?

I was paying $30-35/hour back in the good old (ignorant) days when I had a house cleaner.

Assuming they didn't pay taxes on this, they are making more than a lot of people with graduate degrees.

[Squirrel away]

Wow, I only paid my cleaner about £8 an hour, now I feel guilty.:P Haha, she actually picked her own wage anyway.

[I'm a red panda]

Assuming they didn't pay taxes on this, they are making more than a lot of people with graduate degrees.

Do you make this assumption about everyone who is self-employed?  Because self-employment taxes suck.  You HAVE to make an excellent hourly wage to come close to what you would make if you were working for a company.  And if you are self-employed you get no benefits.  So really, $30 an hour isn't that great.

[forummm]

Assuming they didn't pay taxes on this, they are making more than a lot of people with graduate degrees.

Do you make this assumption about everyone who is self-employed?  Because self-employment taxes suck.  You HAVE to make an excellent hourly wage to come close to what you would make if you were working for a company.  And if you are self-employed you get no benefits.  So really, $30 an hour isn't that great.

Not necessarily that different, but it depends on the specifics of course. The only difference between earning $30/hour through a W-2 job and $30/hour through self employment is an adding an extra 7.65% of taxes but subtracting that extra 7.65% from your AGI for income tax purposes, and then subtracting another 18% of your income for your solo 401k if you can max that out. So in the end the total financial picture is more of a wash if you can max it out, especially since a lot of corporate 401k plans have really high fees. The only difference I can think of is that with a corporate job your employer might pay something towards your health plan. But they also provide a highly restricted set of choices. And now with the ACA you have a lot more choice getting health plans on your own, and if you have a family and are making $60k minus SE tax minus maxed solo 401k, your AGI would make your health plan free or close to free. So being self employed could actually be financially better.

[onehair]

I am waiting for the final hammer to fall upon my uncle.  Far as I know he is still unemployed my mom said he feels betrayed by his former agency and claims some girls in the office were "out to get him."  Plus with my mom recently cutting him off I am curious will he call and visit her like it never happened.  He simply refuses to move into a cheaper apartment his current rent is $1500 I am not sure where he is getting money from unless he is running through his TSP at a high rate of speed.  It would be smarter for him to move into my late grandparents' house and split the bills with my aunt including the property taxes.   There is the factor he loathes my aunt (with good reason she did steal some Star Trek vintage toy from him plus her repellent personality) but financially it would be the smart thing to do.

[vivophoenix]

Assuming they didn't pay taxes on this, they are making more than a lot of people with graduate degrees.

Do you make this assumption about everyone who is self-employed?  Because self-employment taxes suck.  You HAVE to make an excellent hourly wage to come close to what you would make if you were working for a company.  And if you are self-employed you get no benefits.  So really, $30 an hour isn't that great.

Not necessarily that different, but it depends on the specifics of course. The only difference between earning $30/hour through a W-2 job and $30/hour through self employment is an adding an extra 7.65% of taxes but subtracting that extra 7.65% from your AGI for income tax purposes, and then subtracting another 18% of your income for your solo 401k if you can max that out. So in the end the total financial picture is more of a wash if you can max it out, especially since a lot of corporate 401k plans have really high fees. The only difference I can think of is that with a corporate job your employer might pay something towards your health plan. But they also provide a highly restricted set of choices. And now with the ACA you have a lot more choice getting health plans on your own, and if you have a family and are making $60k minus SE tax minus maxed solo 401k, your AGI would make your health plan free or close to free. So being self employed could actually be financially better.

you are assuming they work full 40 hours a week. they have to travel around and that doesn't include the cut the corporation would take. i dont know of any under the table, cleaning  independent contractors make $30 an hour.

[forummm]

Assuming they didn't pay taxes on this, they are making more than a lot of people with graduate degrees.

Do you make this assumption about everyone who is self-employed?  Because self-employment taxes suck.  You HAVE to make an excellent hourly wage to come close to what you would make if you were working for a company.  And if you are self-employed you get no benefits.  So really, $30 an hour isn't that great.

Not necessarily that different, but it depends on the specifics of course. The only difference between earning $30/hour through a W-2 job and $30/hour through self employment is an adding an extra 7.65% of taxes but subtracting that extra 7.65% from your AGI for income tax purposes, and then subtracting another 18% of your income for your solo 401k if you can max that out. So in the end the total financial picture is more of a wash if you can max it out, especially since a lot of corporate 401k plans have really high fees. The only difference I can think of is that with a corporate job your employer might pay something towards your health plan. But they also provide a highly restricted set of choices. And now with the ACA you have a lot more choice getting health plans on your own, and if you have a family and are making $60k minus SE tax minus maxed solo 401k, your AGI would make your health plan free or close to free. So being self employed could actually be financially better.

you are assuming they work full 40 hours a week. they have to travel around and that doesn't include the cut the corporation would take. i dont know of any under the table, cleaning  independent contractors make $30 an hour.

That makes more sense. $30/hr seemed very high, but I haven't priced this market because I clean my own house...you know every once in awhile :)

[sleepyguy]

Gave up giving investing advice for my MIL/FIL... they are paying MER through the roof for packaged MF though the bank for over 15yrs... something absurd like 2.5% or something.

I told them open a direct investing account, if you like Mutual Funds and no self rebalancing there are other options with only 1% mer or so (Mawer funds).  Falls on def ears... "we like what we have and the performance has been good for last few years" (ummm, to what benchmark?).  I check it out and Mawer was killing their comparitive funds with over less the MER over 10yrs.

They also said the "liked" the advisor as they've been with them over 10yrs... yeah of course, you are paying for his BMW.

I guess it could be worst... they are quite financially well off already.

[BlueHouse]

Yes, you want the housecleaners to spend their time doing the things that you don't want to do.  I have housecleaners come biweekly.  I like to keep my home nice and tidy, but sometimes I just don't get around to putting something away or I have an ongoing project.  Every other Monday, everything I own finds a home and many projects get done that would otherwise linger for months. 

I run the dishwasher and unload it before they come because I don't want them to spend the time doing that.  I usually empty the shredder into recycling before they come because I want it stapled in a paper bag and put into the recycling bin.  If I don't do that, sometimes I find it in a plastic bag in the trash bin. 

I have two bathrooms that I generally do not use and sometimes I put toothpaste in the sinks of those bathrooms just so they have the feeling of accomplishment.

OMG, do you know me?  Yes, I have been told I have CDO in the past and I think it's hysterical so I tell others. 
Do you also call it CDO instead of OCD, because the letters need to be in alphabetical order? xD

OMG, do you know me?  Yes, I have been told I have CDO in the past and I think it's hysterical so I tell others. 
I admit, the whole "messing things up so the cleaners feel accomplishments" is strange.  But 2 different cleaners have said it can be difficult to tell the difference between a before and an after.  The point though is that I don't want to wash floors or bathtubs or toilets or mirrors or baseboards or shutters.  So if I spend time doing the easy stuff, then they will (I hope) do all of the things that I don't want to do. 

[onehair]

What is MER and MF?  I just got an email from my mom saying my aunt claims to have found a bus that will take her to the hospital for her next appointment for $5.  I am not inclined to believe her since she couldn't name the number or letter of the route in question.  Also my uncle is now in trouble concerning his car I will wait to see if it is routine or at risk of repossession.

[forummm]

What is MER and MF?

Expense ratio (fees being charged as a percent of assets invested) and mutual fund

[Hall11235]

I finally have one!

My uncle is the sterotypical salesman. Type A, the works. He is brilliant at what he does, however. Consistently top salesman at a fortune 250 company. Easily makes 400K a year.
Wife works part-time as a secretary at the local high school (if she doesn't, she "gets bored")
Bought each of his daughters a brand new Chevy dart when they turned 16 (they are 2 years apart)
Where I grew up in Minnesota, the length of you penis is measured by how fandangled your bass fishing boat is. This blows my mind: every two years he will by a new Fiberglass bass fishing boat with a 500hp engine; the kind of boat that you need to wear a mask to go full speed.
But it gets worse- His vehicle NEEDS to match the color of his Bass boat. And folks, he's not towing that incredibly light fiberglass bass boat with a Honda Fit. He uses, of course, the F-350 Superduty V12 Triton! Custom job of course, with the jacked up tires. He buys a new boat and a new truck every two years, and they always match. he has been doing this for at least ten years.

He is also known for his incredibly awful and ridiculous statements such as:
"Rugby is for the Gays. Real men play hockey"
"The Indians just need to accept that we conquered them. Conquered people have it shitty. That's history."

Face-punches  for flippin' dayz...

[mtn]

Bought each of his daughters a brand new Chevy dart when they turned 16 (they are 2 years apart)

Where I grew up in Minnesota.... Fiberglass bass fishing boat with a 500hp engine; the kind of boat that you need to wear a mask to go full speed.

He uses, of course, the F-350 Superduty V12 Triton!

Lol at all of this. Those Chevy Dart's are a hot commodity, I was debating buying one but got some Fidelity Admiral funds instead.

And while not impossible, I'd assume that the engine is an outboard because you say Minnesota. So unless he has 2 engines on it, it is highly unlikely that it is 500hp.

And the triton never came in a V12.