Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 3478907 times)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2850 on: May 01, 2017, 10:35:17 AM »
I wonder whether all this "must see baby immediately" is a cultural hang-over from the days (which are within living memory) when the chances were high of mother or baby, or both, dying within a few days of the birth.

It's an explanation though, not an excuse.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2851 on: May 01, 2017, 10:47:45 AM »
What are the age group after millennials called? the 2000-now

Generation Z

More like Generation Why?

Why do I have to......etc etc
Actually, the Millennial generation was called Generation Y, and Generation Why, before settling on Mellinnial.  If I recall correctly, both of those terms were used in the 90's.  I'm guessing we won't have a final name for the generation being born now for another 10-15 years.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2852 on: May 01, 2017, 10:59:37 AM »
I wonder whether all this "must see baby immediately" is a cultural hang-over from the days (which are within living memory) when the chances were high of mother or baby, or both, dying within a few days of the birth.

It's an explanation though, not an excuse.

Yeah. I've genuinely been thinking throughout this discussion, "What do you even need to see them FOR?" You can find out that mother and baby are both well by phone. You can get pictures over email if you're that desperate to check your grandchild looks like every other baby ever. It's not like the baby will even acknowledge your existence for months. The ONLY reason to dash down there is to genuinely help with stuff like cooking and cleaning and changing nappies. There is no other reason to visit the baby immediately.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2853 on: May 01, 2017, 11:25:01 AM »
I wonder whether all this "must see baby immediately" is a cultural hang-over from the days (which are within living memory) when the chances were high of mother or baby, or both, dying within a few days of the birth.

It's an explanation though, not an excuse.

Yeah. I've genuinely been thinking throughout this discussion, "What do you even need to see them FOR?" You can find out that mother and baby are both well by phone. You can get pictures over email if you're that desperate to check your grandchild looks like every other baby ever. It's not like the baby will even acknowledge your existence for months. The ONLY reason to dash down there is to genuinely help with stuff like cooking and cleaning and changing nappies. There is no other reason to visit the baby immediately.
Well, there *is* the emotional experience of holding a newborn as well.  There's nothing else quite like it :)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2854 on: May 01, 2017, 01:19:31 PM »
What are the age group after millennials called? the 2000-now

Generation Z

More like Generation Why?

Why do I have to......etc etc
Actually, the Millennial generation was called Generation Y, and Generation Why, before settling on Mellinnial.  If I recall correctly, both of those terms were used in the 90's.  I'm guessing we won't have a final name for the generation being born now for another 10-15 years.

I went to a seminar that called them Generation Edge.

It took me a long time to realize I was a millennial (1982) because I fit so few of the characteristics and grew up as generation Y.  That same seminar called people like me "cuspers".



-----------------------
Nothing like holding a newborn, nope. There isn't. But it isn't about the grandparents.
There are about 50 photos of my newborn with her grandparents in the recovery room. There is ONE of me and the baby.

Grandparents posted photos of themselves with baby on facebook as soon as Dad announced the birth (to be fair, that was good waiting. Husband's parents posted the baby's birth and stats before he did!). Photo of me didn't make it until day 2. (Birth being day 0). The first comment was "I thought Jessi was there too!".

It was all about "look at us being grandparents of the year". Let the parents enjoy their new baby for a bit!

(My SIL didn't even get to hold 2 of her children before her mother who took them while she was in recovery. I had told my husband and the nurses that no one touches the baby except DH before I do. But they saw her before me.)
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 01:26:28 PM by iowajes »

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2855 on: May 01, 2017, 01:29:51 PM »
Oh, and just as an anti mustachian rant...
MIL bought like $200 worth of clothes for the baby. After seeing that her closet is so full she can never wear all this.

Including outfits for Halloween and Christmas! Who knows what size she'll even be then! Or whether I'm going to want to make her something special to wear.

This is someone who doesn't have money to spend!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2856 on: May 01, 2017, 01:48:00 PM »
Oh, and just as an anti mustachian rant...
MIL bought like $200 worth of clothes for the baby. After seeing that her closet is so full she can never wear all this.

Including outfits for Halloween and Christmas! Who knows what size she'll even be then! Or whether I'm going to want to make her something special to wear.

This is someone who doesn't have money to spend!

Can you return those clothes to the shop for a refund or store credit? They grow very fast, and most grandparents relax on the clothes buying mania when the babies approach 12 months. Those store credits might come to good use then. As for the Halloween and Christmas clothes, I would definitely return them, and if the question comes up explain that they were (unfortunately) the wrong size.

If you can't return them, donate to goodwill or someone else, or sell them.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2857 on: May 01, 2017, 02:19:43 PM »
No, they aren't from stores I have around here :(

I'll eventually donate them.

Oh, I forgot another fun shopaholic story- she used to buy things for my SIL. Give them to her kids, unwrap them, use them, and then give SIL a bill! My SIL finally threw a fit and refused to pay when it was a new bedroom set!  I would have refused at the first 99 cent toy!
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 02:21:58 PM by iowajes »

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2858 on: May 01, 2017, 02:24:51 PM »
Oh, I forgot another fun shopaholic story- she used to buy things for my SIL. Give them to her kids, unwrap them, use them, and then give SIL a bill! My SIL finally threw a fit and refused to pay when it was a new bedroom set!  I would have refused at the first 99 cent toy!

WHAT!!! Please elaborate!  How in what world is this a thing?

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2859 on: May 01, 2017, 02:30:23 PM »
That's INSANE!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2860 on: May 01, 2017, 02:51:49 PM »
Oh, I forgot another fun shopaholic story- she used to buy things for my SIL. Give them to her kids, unwrap them, use them, and then give SIL a bill! My SIL finally threw a fit and refused to pay when it was a new bedroom set!  I would have refused at the first 99 cent toy!

WHAT!!! Please elaborate!  How in what world is this a thing?

I guess my SIL is a bit of a pushover, but also needed MIL to be on good terms as she was their childcare. So she just out up with it. The kidsbwould day "granny got us stuffed animals", then on Monday SIL would be told she owed her $10, or whatever.

The furniture went back. Who the hell buys someone furniture without asking?
(MIL did rearrange my basement furniture. My husband noticed everything is about 2 ft to the left. And our chair is now diagonal rather than square to the wall. Once either of us can lift things we will have to put it all back.)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2861 on: May 01, 2017, 03:42:14 PM »

Except.my friends have been bringing diapers and holding the baby for an hour so I can nap, since my husband cooks.

But none of our family is local, so they are coming for extended stays. And seem to think "helping" means something different than what I do.

That is hopeless, having to take care of visitors in additional to having a baby. Could you not sit down with them and have a talk. Tell them that you really appreciate them coming, but that it is a burden to be a host. As if they want to lift your burden by taking over some of your household chores, like grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning etc. Tell them that you are stressed out of your mind and really need some help.

Usually the easiest is to just say no. If you tell them ahead of the birth that you won't have any visitors until 6-12 weeks after the baby is born, it is much easier to loosen the rules afterwards. If they expect to almost take part in the birth, they will be disappointed if you ask them to wait one week before visiting. If they know from the start you want peace and quiet, they will be positively surprised if they get to see the baby already after two weeks.

With a newborn, usually the best help is to stay away (or bring food and leave).

Wow! All this seems a little harsh, not seeing a new grandchild for a couple of weeks?

Ok, you don't want to visit too long or inappropriately, but it seems a little cruel and unusual (maybe not so unusual!) to exclude the grandparents (who probably love the child the most next to the parents) and treat them with such disdain.

Knowing how much you love your children, how do you think you'd feel treated like this when your time came to be grandparents?

You sound awfully entitled. New parents get to set the boundaries. Deal with it.
Not at all, I have no grandchildren. Neither am I Asian :) but I have seen the pain these sort of issues have caused others. Perhaps I'm just expecting people to share this exciting milestone with their families?

Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn. A photo is fine in extenuating circumstances, but it's not the same as holding a newborn. I'm with zolotiyeruki:
Quote
Well, there *is* the emotional experience of holding a newborn as well.  There's nothing else quite like it :)


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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2862 on: May 01, 2017, 05:41:40 PM »
In some traditional Asian cultures it is normal for the grandparents to raise the children.  This let the parents focus on earning an income that supports all three generations.

The economic situation may have changed but the cultural traditions of grandparents having the primary caregiver role linger on.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2863 on: May 01, 2017, 06:23:11 PM »
Quote
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

Families were closer together, so these hospital visits were short and not new parents having to deal with house guests.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2864 on: May 01, 2017, 08:03:05 PM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2865 on: May 01, 2017, 08:27:01 PM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

It's because the bill for an overnight stay is brutal even with help from insurance, and nobody wants to catch a hospital-borne infection such as MRSA or flesh-eating bacteria. That can be fatal.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2866 on: May 01, 2017, 10:12:35 PM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

It's because the bill for an overnight stay is brutal even with help from insurance, and nobody wants to catch a hospital-borne infection such as MRSA or flesh-eating bacteria. That can be fatal.

Australia.

Not pregnancy-related, but I was ill earlier this year. Two GP appointments, five days in hospital, two outpatient scans, and three more GP appointments and I paid ... $0.

Marty even profited from it. He came to visit me and ate my hospital-issue dinner. :)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2867 on: May 01, 2017, 10:59:03 PM »
I wonder whether all this "must see baby immediately" is a cultural hang-over from the days (which are within living memory) when the chances were high of mother or baby, or both, dying within a few days of the birth.

It's an explanation though, not an excuse.

Yeah. I've genuinely been thinking throughout this discussion, "What do you even need to see them FOR?" You can find out that mother and baby are both well by phone. You can get pictures over email if you're that desperate to check your grandchild looks like every other baby ever. It's not like the baby will even acknowledge your existence for months. The ONLY reason to dash down there is to genuinely help with stuff like cooking and cleaning and changing nappies. There is no other reason to visit the baby immediately.

Some families actually like each other.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2868 on: May 01, 2017, 11:20:58 PM »
No, they aren't from stores I have around here :(

I'll eventually donate them.

Oh, I forgot another fun shopaholic story- she used to buy things for my SIL. Give them to her kids, unwrap them, use them, and then give SIL a bill! My SIL finally threw a fit and refused to pay when it was a new bedroom set!  I would have refused at the first 99 cent toy!

See -- they are on their best behavior for you.!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2869 on: May 01, 2017, 11:36:21 PM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

It's because the bill for an overnight stay is brutal even with help from insurance, and nobody wants to catch a hospital-borne infection such as MRSA or flesh-eating bacteria. That can be fatal.

Australia.

Not pregnancy-related, but I was ill earlier this year. Two GP appointments, five days in hospital, two outpatient scans, and three more GP appointments and I paid ... $0.

Marty even profited from it. He came to visit me and ate my hospital-issue dinner. :)

Man, I love Australia.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2870 on: May 02, 2017, 01:10:15 AM »
I wonder whether all this "must see baby immediately" is a cultural hang-over from the days (which are within living memory) when the chances were high of mother or baby, or both, dying within a few days of the birth.

It's an explanation though, not an excuse.

Yeah. I've genuinely been thinking throughout this discussion, "What do you even need to see them FOR?" You can find out that mother and baby are both well by phone. You can get pictures over email if you're that desperate to check your grandchild looks like every other baby ever. It's not like the baby will even acknowledge your existence for months. The ONLY reason to dash down there is to genuinely help with stuff like cooking and cleaning and changing nappies. There is no other reason to visit the baby immediately.

Some families actually like each other.

Fair point. :) But I guess that might still fall under "the only reason is to genuinely help" - emotional support for the new mother counts.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2871 on: May 02, 2017, 01:16:42 AM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

I think it's unusual in the US to not have an overnight stay when giving birth.  Mostly because once you get sent home, you are on your own. Does Australia have home health visitors like the UK?

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2872 on: May 02, 2017, 02:58:11 AM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

I think it's unusual in the US to not have an overnight stay when giving birth.  Mostly because once you get sent home, you are on your own. Does Australia have home health visitors like the UK?
They used to, but that might have changed too! :)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2873 on: May 02, 2017, 03:00:49 AM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

I think it's unusual in the US to not have an overnight stay when giving birth.  Mostly because once you get sent home, you are on your own. Does Australia have home health visitors like the UK?

None of my friends had home health visits, but all were assigned to a baby clinic, put in touch with a mothers' group, and given excellent outpatient support. They were also encouraged to keep in touch with the hospital, and had the option of returning for a night or two if needed. It was a much more fluid process instead of just being discharged and told they were on their own.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2874 on: May 02, 2017, 06:01:19 AM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

It's because the bill for an overnight stay is brutal even with help from insurance, and nobody wants to catch a hospital-borne infection such as MRSA or flesh-eating bacteria. That can be fatal.

Australia.

Not pregnancy-related, but I was ill earlier this year. Two GP appointments, five days in hospital, two outpatient scans, and three more GP appointments and I paid ... $0.

Marty even profited from it. He came to visit me and ate my hospital-issue dinner. :)

Man, I love Australia.

The food wasn't very good. It could best be described as the minimum required to give you enough calories to survive.

The entertainment was interesting - druggo crack addict suffering acute withdrawal symptoms in the next bed, with her dip-shit drop-kick boyfriend popping pills in the communal toilet.

The poor nurses having to deal with that day in day out :(

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2875 on: May 02, 2017, 06:03:19 AM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

It's because the bill for an overnight stay is brutal even with help from insurance, and nobody wants to catch a hospital-borne infection such as MRSA or flesh-eating bacteria. That can be fatal.

Australia.

Not pregnancy-related, but I was ill earlier this year. Two GP appointments, five days in hospital, two outpatient scans, and three more GP appointments and I paid ... $0.

Marty even profited from it. He came to visit me and ate my hospital-issue dinner. :)

Man, I love Australia.

The food wasn't very good. It could best be described as the minimum required to give you enough calories to survive.

The entertainment was interesting - druggo crack addict suffering acute withdrawal symptoms in the next bed, with her dip-shit drop-kick boyfriend popping pills in the communal toilet.

The poor nurses having to deal with that day in day out :(

Which is why I needed you for entertainment. And moral support. And clean socks! :)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2876 on: May 02, 2017, 07:55:45 AM »
It appears relative's disability through her employer was cancelled. We don't know specifics about their situation but have been able to gather that they gross at least $15k between his job, her disability, and the child support payments they get. We are guessing her disability on the low end of $5k per month. They have no idea how to make ends meet. We live in a LCOL area. She only has 3 more years of child support. They never saw their impending financial disaster coming. They even recently refinanced their credit card debt into their mortgage...for the third time...

I am curious what will come next.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2877 on: May 02, 2017, 10:23:23 AM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

I think it's unusual in the US to not have an overnight stay when giving birth.  Mostly because once you get sent home, you are on your own. Does Australia have home health visitors like the UK?

None of my friends had home health visits, but all were assigned to a baby clinic, put in touch with a mothers' group, and given excellent outpatient support. They were also encouraged to keep in touch with the hospital, and had the option of returning for a night or two if needed. It was a much more fluid process instead of just being discharged and told they were on their own.
I had a 2 week mood check with a medical assistant- it was a 5 min. appt.  and I have a 6 week follow up scheduled with my OB/midwife. That's it for Mom.

Baby had a weight check at 4 days a well visit at 2 weeks and 4 weeks and I have one scheduled for 8 weeks.

I've had a few more non standard appts due to her feeding issues (speech pathologist, dentist)
I've also joined a lactation support group I found.

But thank goodness I got to stay 3 nights in the hospital (it's 1 or 2 for vaginal).

Of course now I'm facing a lot of calls to deal with the $27k bill that was denied by my insurance because they don't like how it was coded...

Sorry, getting off topic.
Anti-MMM comment: mother is mailing a box of (hand me down from her friends, thankfully) baby clothes. It will probably cost $20-30 to mail. She's driving up in two weeks. WHY are you paying to mail this?

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2878 on: May 02, 2017, 10:38:29 AM »
We really lucked out when our two kids were born. Small rural LCOL area hospital. Overnight stay. No stress. Not crowded. Advised us what to bring so we didn't have to pay hospital prices for aspirin for example.

Only two Moms visiting at the time.

DW received plenty of attention from the staff and they fed us a feast! Came in and invited me to take the second (empty) bed and get some rest.

Big city family thought/thinks we were crazy living in this smallish town but honestly there are real perks to living here.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2879 on: May 03, 2017, 08:19:14 AM »
Our hospital had queen size beds in the mother/baby unit, so my husband slept in the bed with me.

My room was way nicer than his room (shared, split by a curtain) after his appendectomy.

The room service was okay too, and they don't blink when a "hungry" patient orders enough for a banquet. Husband ate well.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2880 on: May 03, 2017, 09:44:28 AM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

I think it's unusual in the US to not have an overnight stay when giving birth.  Mostly because once you get sent home, you are on your own. Does Australia have home health visitors like the UK?

None of my friends had home health visits, but all were assigned to a baby clinic, put in touch with a mothers' group, and given excellent outpatient support. They were also encouraged to keep in touch with the hospital, and had the option of returning for a night or two if needed. It was a much more fluid process instead of just being discharged and told they were on their own.
I had a 2 week mood check with a medical assistant- it was a 5 min. appt.  and I have a 6 week follow up scheduled with my OB/midwife. That's it for Mom.

Baby had a weight check at 4 days a well visit at 2 weeks and 4 weeks and I have one scheduled for 8 weeks.

I've had a few more non standard appts due to her feeding issues (speech pathologist, dentist)
I've also joined a lactation support group I found.

But thank goodness I got to stay 3 nights in the hospital (it's 1 or 2 for vaginal).

Of course now I'm facing a lot of calls to deal with the $27k bill that was denied by my insurance because they don't like how it was coded...

Sorry, getting off topic.
Anti-MMM comment: mother is mailing a box of (hand me down from her friends, thankfully) baby clothes. It will probably cost $20-30 to mail. She's driving up in two weeks. WHY are you paying to mail this?
WTF????

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2881 on: May 03, 2017, 10:07:19 AM »
...

Of course now I'm facing a lot of calls to deal with the $27k bill that was denied by my insurance because they don't like how it was coded...

Sorry, getting off topic.
Anti-MMM comment: mother is mailing a box of (hand me down from her friends, thankfully) baby clothes. It will probably cost $20-30 to mail. She's driving up in two weeks. WHY are you paying to mail this?
WTF????

See here in the Land of the Free if we did not have 27k health care bills the Communists will win and our guns will be confiscated by the French and 9th circuit court will install Bruce Jenner as President who will force us all to convert to Islam while preforming abortions on our grandparents.  /sarcasm.




I'm a red panda

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2882 on: May 03, 2017, 11:35:03 AM »
AlanStache has it right...

It will be covered (I'll pay about $4k on that, my total for the pregnancy/birth will be $6k...I have a PPO not a high deductible)-it's just going to take a lot of phone calls. Insurance says hospital is wrong. Hospital says insurance is wrong.  Oh, great fun.  That's just a small portion of the total bill.

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2883 on: May 03, 2017, 04:21:33 PM »
Can you just ignore the bill until the insurance co and hospital sort things out? I remember when I had an injury years ago I got bill after bill with an ever changing owed amount. Eventually they sorted it out and I owed $150 or some small amount.

I could only imagine how complicated it might be to get your money back if you paid before the hospital and insurance co were done arguing.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2884 on: May 03, 2017, 07:30:25 PM »
Yeah. There is no early way I'm paying $27k.
The hospital said it is 120 days until it goes to collections. So I'll pay it in 119 if they haven't worked it out.
Clearing up a trashed credit score would be harder than a refund...

Sibley

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2885 on: May 04, 2017, 09:31:10 AM »
Yeah. There is no early way I'm paying $27k.
The hospital said it is 120 days until it goes to collections. So I'll pay it in 119 if they haven't worked it out.
Clearing up a trashed credit score would be harder than a refund...

So, if the insurance company doesn't like the coding, get the specifics of what they want, then take it to the provider (hospital). Spoon feed it to them and have them resubmit. No, things shouldn't work this way. Yes, sometimes they do.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2886 on: May 04, 2017, 03:46:50 PM »
Yeah. There is no early way I'm paying $27k.
The hospital said it is 120 days until it goes to collections. So I'll pay it in 119 if they haven't worked it out.
Clearing up a trashed credit score would be harder than a refund...

So, if the insurance company doesn't like the coding, get the specifics of what they want, then take it to the provider (hospital). Spoon feed it to them and have them resubmit. No, things shouldn't work this way. Yes, sometimes they do.
The insurance is in the wrong. I went down to the hospital and they showed it to me, and it's exactly what insurance is asking for. Hospital cannot resend it because it would be a duplicate.

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2887 on: May 04, 2017, 04:15:12 PM »
Yeah. There is no early way I'm paying $27k.
The hospital said it is 120 days until it goes to collections. So I'll pay it in 119 if they haven't worked it out.
Clearing up a trashed credit score would be harder than a refund...
Okay, so this was 11 years ago, but I got a $3000 bill for my first birth (vaginal with epidural, 2 nights in hospital), on a total bill of about $5000?  (I feel like hospital was $5k, and doctor was $4k, or thereabouts).

I got the EOB from my insurance company.  I called the hospital to get an itemized bill.  Then in my sleep-deprived state, I attempted to make sense of it.

But literally NONE of the lines matched.  Not the title.  Not the code.  Not the $ amounts.  I could not even combine several lines together to get any $ amount to match.

So I called the hospital and started in on my talk "well, I have your bill, and the EOB, and nothing lines up at all". 

Hospital: "Wait, let us handle that.  It can be confusing.  We will call the insurance company."

A bit later (a week?  2 weeks?) magically my new bill was $700.  ($350 deductible x 2)  It made me wonder:

#1: how many people "just pay it" to avoid dealing with the hospital and insurance.  It saves them both money.
#2: how many times insurance denies payment "just because"


I say this because years later, my kid #2 had surgery at 9 months.  It was necessary, and pre-qualified / approved.
First EOB from the insurance company said "we are denying payment for this surgery because it was not emergency surgery".  No shit dipwads, that's why we got the PRE-APPROVAL.

In the end, they paid it, but it took 1.5 YEARS.  Between the insurance company denials, the poor billing practices of the hospital, the fact that the hospital and doctors bill separately, the different insurance companies (kiddo double covered), change in insurance at the end of the year...what a mess.

And I'm pretty sure all along, hospital and insurance were hoping that we'd "just pay the bill".  The cost was approximately $25,000 (outpatient).  Our cost: $125 (the outpatient cost), which we paid for out of the HSA.

But many many hours on the phone, my husband was the one who did it.  I'd recommend using someone who is both stubborn and not sleep deprived.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2888 on: May 05, 2017, 08:50:10 AM »
To continue the thread derail into health care - So happy for OHIP - my doctor-referred physiotherapy is covered, to a point, my upcoming MRI is covered, my knee X-rays and hip bone density scan were covered. My tetanus vaccination was covered, I get my free flu shot every fall, and I was in the right age group for free shingles vaccine.  I do pay for this - my premiums are called taxes.  But any Ontario resident will get the same care.

When DD was born we were in Quebec, and she got jaundice, so we were in hospital for 4 or 5 days.  Otherwise it would have been 3, I was an elderly primigravida and I had a long labour.  We had a nurse visit a week or so after we were home, to see how we were doing and do the urine test for phenylketonuria.  I had follow-up visits with my ob/gyn and she went to our GP and the CLSC.


marielle

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2889 on: May 05, 2017, 09:26:33 AM »
Just found out that my boyfriend's parents have kept his and his sister's crib all these years so that their grandchildren could use it one day. 28 years now. They're upset because they actually had to throw it away due to water getting in the basement and rusting it. I could understand keeping some toys and things that you can't buy anymore...but a crib!? They claim it was not for sentimental reasons, and that it is because it was a perfectly good crib that someone else should get to enjoy. Right, that's why you kept it for your grandchildren and not for some other family. The amount of junk this family holds on to is insane.

What if they don't even have grandchildren?

Goldielocks

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2890 on: May 05, 2017, 10:03:39 AM »
My dad made a cradle that all 4 of his grandkids used, and it is now in storage waiting for great grandchildren.  (He is a carpenter).  I think he made a little engraved plaque with all the babies' names on it that is now on it.

So, although smaller than a crib, same idea, and I get it.

Ann

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2891 on: May 05, 2017, 11:14:56 AM »
Just found out that my boyfriend's parents have kept his and his sister's crib all these years so that their grandchildren could use it one day. 28 years now. They're upset because they actually had to throw it away due to water getting in the basement and rusting it. I could understand keeping some toys and things that you can't buy anymore...but a crib!? They claim it was not for sentimental reasons, and that it is because it was a perfectly good crib that someone else should get to enjoy. Right, that's why you kept it for your grandchildren and not for some other family. The amount of junk this family holds on to is insane.

What if they don't even have grandchildren?
Aww!  But the sad thing is that it WAS a perfectly good crib that someone else could've enjoyed . . . 28 years ago.  If they had started passing it along to friends and acquaintances, they would have maintained the spirit of their impulse and helped out the community.  Instead, they kept it for their grandchildren only and ended up with garbage.  :-(

Sibley

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2892 on: May 05, 2017, 02:30:38 PM »
Yeah. There is no early way I'm paying $27k.
The hospital said it is 120 days until it goes to collections. So I'll pay it in 119 if they haven't worked it out.
Clearing up a trashed credit score would be harder than a refund...

So, if the insurance company doesn't like the coding, get the specifics of what they want, then take it to the provider (hospital). Spoon feed it to them and have them resubmit. No, things shouldn't work this way. Yes, sometimes they do.
The insurance is in the wrong. I went down to the hospital and they showed it to me, and it's exactly what insurance is asking for. Hospital cannot resend it because it would be a duplicate.

Ok, that's different. Call insurance, ask them to re-process that claim, or file an appeal if that's what they need (depends on their process). If you get an appeal denied, then file a complaint with the State Department of Insurance (should do the appeal first). DOI complaints go to a different area and get a fresh set of eyes. Plus, there's real, negative consequences to those complaints - they don't get ignored.

Tell the hospital you're working on it, give them whatever docs they need so you don't go to collection. Edit: or just pay the bill before it goes to collections, but I'd avoid that if possible.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 02:33:58 PM by Sibley »

cloudsail

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2893 on: May 05, 2017, 02:49:07 PM »
I've given in to my insurance company before. They were clearly in the wrong but it was a little over $200 and I just didn't have the time or energy anymore.

It just makes me grit my teeth every time I think how much money they squeeze out in totally underhanded ways. As if they can't make enough money just operating in an honest way.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2894 on: May 05, 2017, 03:55:52 PM »
Iowajes, can you get both your insurance and the hospital on the same conference call and sort it out together? I've found that has helped me in the past instead of going back and forth between them. Also, record the conversation so you don't end up in he said, she said scenario. Unfortunately, it's your credit that is on the line and you need to get them to solve it one way or the other before it goes to collections.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2895 on: May 05, 2017, 04:31:54 PM »
I've given in to my insurance company before. They were clearly in the wrong but it was a little over $200 and I just didn't have the time or energy anymore.

It just makes me grit my teeth every time I think how much money they squeeze out in totally underhanded ways. As if they can't make enough money just operating in an honest way.

Can you imagine the emotional roller coaster ride the sick, the elderly and the low education persons deal with in the insurance co or billing department?

ysette9

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2896 on: May 05, 2017, 04:33:50 PM »
Quote
Just found out that my boyfriend's parents have kept his and his sister's crib all these years so that their grandchildren could use it one day. 28 years now.

If the cribs hadn't been destroyed I doubt they would have been used anyway. Safety standard and knowledge have changed a lot in that time and many things from back then are no longer considered acceptable. I certainly would not put my kid in a 30 year-old crib while I am happy to accept a gently used pack-n-play from friends.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2897 on: May 05, 2017, 10:55:21 PM »
I've given in to my insurance company before. They were clearly in the wrong but it was a little over $200 and I just didn't have the time or energy anymore.

It just makes me grit my teeth every time I think how much money they squeeze out in totally underhanded ways. As if they can't make enough money just operating in an honest way.

Can you imagine the emotional roller coaster ride the sick, the elderly and the low education persons deal with in the insurance co or billing department?

Part of the strategy. If the patient dies from a stress induced stroke or heart attack, the estate generally has to settle especially if the family is already exhausted and overtaxed due to the death of a loved one.

It's the same with routinely denying claims related to injuries severe enough to require surgery. If the patient is, say, a victim of domestic violence or has been in a sports related accident, he or she is generally under enough other kinds of stress to be pressured into accepting responsibility for the bill.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2898 on: May 06, 2017, 03:57:19 AM »
I've given in to my insurance company before. They were clearly in the wrong but it was a little over $200 and I just didn't have the time or energy anymore.

It just makes me grit my teeth every time I think how much money they squeeze out in totally underhanded ways. As if they can't make enough money just operating in an honest way.

Can you imagine the emotional roller coaster ride the sick, the elderly and the low education persons deal with in the insurance co or billing department?

Part of the strategy. If the patient dies from a stress induced stroke or heart attack, the estate generally has to settle especially if the family is already exhausted and overtaxed due to the death of a loved one.

It's the same with routinely denying claims related to injuries severe enough to require surgery. If the patient is, say, a victim of domestic violence or has been in a sports related accident, he or she is generally under enough other kinds of stress to be pressured into accepting responsibility for the bill.

I have no experience with this and so do not wish to comment on it. I will say that there are bottom feeders that will try to saddle individuals and companies with small inconvienences and hope that they just pay them off rather than cause problems. I'll give an example. My company uses Centurylink for their phone service. About 7 months ago a company called asking to speak to "whoever handles the Centurlink account," whenever someone calls in and doesn't know the name of the person my spidey-sense kicks in, and so I probed and the person said that they were from Telpex and that they could 'lower my phone bill.' I tell him that we aren't interested and to take off his list and then hang up. I $@$@ hate these calls. If someone were to call my business and say, "I am a competitor to ___ and want to get your business," I'll listen to them and maybe we can work something out. But when anyone calls without a contact name, my response is to go away*. I #%% hate these calls. We exhibit at a few shows and it pisses me off how many calls we get from people that will try to pretend like they are from that show when in reality they are either freight brokers or people trying to book hotels from us, not because they are trying to get business but because they represent themselves as being from the show. Well anyways, Telpex called again and spoke to my warehouse manager who hearing that they can save us money decided to get some figures. Wel, that company took that message as confirmation that we had their business and used that recording (he wasn't authorized to make any such decision, and swears he said that to the salesperson) to call Centurylink to cancel our phone service and switch it over to us. Next thing we know we get an invoice for triple what our regular phone bill is and harassing phone messages.

I didn't think much of Telpex after I told them to go away, but after my warehouse manager talked to them I did a little Googling and see that it is a fraud service. Multiple complain that they call saying that they are with a provider and then rip them off by saying that they agreed to use them.

So by that point it my warehouse manager comes to me. I got a copy of the invoice and ask him WTF? He tells me what happens and then I speak to Telpex and tell them we didn't sign any agreement and that we plan to litigate the invoice if they pursue it. They say that they will. Instead, they call us for the next few weeks and then our phone line is cut off.

We get Centurylink to re-institute service. Problem with centurylink is that they are an oligopoly and honestly don't give a fuck about customer service. You would think that they would call before switching an account to a 'rival.'
 
I'm guessing that Telpex think that most businesses will just pay them to go away. We aren't like that, the principal owner says, "Feel free to file a suit, I'm sure a judge would love to see any agreements we allegedly signed." That was the last we heard of them on the invoice matter. Fast forward to 3 weeks ago, I just got a call from Telpex.

*If someone calls and says that they are with company ___ and would like to speak to the person responsible for that area, I"m more likely to transfer them if I answer the phone (we don't have a receptionist any longer). 

paddedhat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2899 on: May 06, 2017, 06:00:53 AM »

Can you imagine the emotional roller coaster ride the sick, the elderly and the low education persons deal with in the insurance co or billing department?

Part of the strategy. If the patient dies from a stress induced stroke or heart attack, the estate generally has to settle especially if the family is already exhausted and overtaxed due to the death of a loved one.

It's the same with routinely denying claims related to injuries severe enough to require surgery. If the patient is, say, a victim of domestic violence or has been in a sports related accident, he or she is generally under enough other kinds of stress to be pressured into accepting responsibility for the bill.
[/quote]

I have no experience with this and so do not wish to comment on it. I will say that there are bottom feeders that will try to saddle individuals and companies with small inconvienences and hope that they just pay them off rather than cause problems. I'll give an example. My company uses Centurylink for their phone service. About 7 months ago a company called asking to speak to "whoever handles the Centurlink account," whenever someone calls in and doesn't know the name of the person my spidey-sense kicks in, and so I probed and the person said that they were from Telpex and that they could 'lower my phone bill.' I tell him that we aren't interested and to take off his list and then hang up. I $@$@ hate these calls. If someone were to call my business and say, "I am a competitor to ___ and want to get your business," I'll listen to them and maybe we can work something out. But when anyone calls without a contact name, my response is to go away*. I #%% hate these calls. We exhibit at a few shows and it pisses me off how many calls we get from people that will try to pretend like they are from that show when in reality they are either freight brokers or people trying to book hotels from us, not because they are trying to get business but because they represent themselves as being from the show. Well anyways, Telpex called again and spoke to my warehouse manager who hearing that they can save us money decided to get some figures. Wel, that company took that message as confirmation that we had their business and used that recording (he wasn't authorized to make any such decision, and swears he said that to the salesperson) to call Centurylink to cancel our phone service and switch it over to us. Next thing we know we get an invoice for triple what our regular phone bill is and harassing phone messages.

I didn't think much of Telpex after I told them to go away, but after my warehouse manager talked to them I did a little Googling and see that it is a fraud service. Multiple complain that they call saying that they are with a provider and then rip them off by saying that they agreed to use them.

So by that point it my warehouse manager comes to me. I got a copy of the invoice and ask him WTF? He tells me what happens and then I speak to Telpex and tell them we didn't sign any agreement and that we plan to litigate the invoice if they pursue it. They say that they will. Instead, they call us for the next few weeks and then our phone line is cut off.

We get Centurylink to re-institute service. Problem with centurylink is that they are an oligopoly and honestly don't give a fuck about customer service. You would think that they would call before switching an account to a 'rival.'
 
I'm guessing that Telpex think that most businesses will just pay them to go away. We aren't like that, the principal owner says, "Feel free to file a suit, I'm sure a judge would love to see any agreements we allegedly signed." That was the last we heard of them on the invoice matter. Fast forward to 3 weeks ago, I just got a call from Telpex.

*If someone calls and says that they are with company ___ and would like to speak to the person responsible for that area, I"m more likely to transfer them if I answer the phone (we don't have a receptionist any longer).
[/quote]

I had this happen years ago, but with a twist. I was working for a small business and got a call from one of the scam phone companies. They asked enough questions to verify the owner's full name and ended the call. Our service was switched, the bills exploded, and they tried to collect. At that point they actually presented a forged document with the owner's signature, requesting service. Back when everybody had land lines, and the industry deregulated, this type of crap was an epidemic.  Also had a case of an elderly FIL who spent years paying $8/month to another shitbag phone company to lease a $50 ring volume amplifier. He passed, and the MIL just kept on paying the bill. After the MIL passed the bastards demanded that it be returned to them before they would cancel the contract. They billed well over a grand for the "service" over at least a decade.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!