Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 3644833 times)

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2450 on: January 23, 2017, 02:46:41 PM »
Isn't that the Chevy Avalanche all dressed up for a formal ball? ;)

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2451 on: January 23, 2017, 02:49:31 PM »
Isn't that the Chevy Avalanche all dressed up for a formal ball? ;)

Basically. And the Avalanche is [functionally] a Honda Ridgeline for people who actually need a "real truck". I've found myself close enough to that category that I've seriously looked at all three, and readily admit that I would love to own an Escalade EXT. Never quite made sense for me though.

People who have them and Avalanches love them.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2452 on: January 23, 2017, 02:54:10 PM »
You could probably make an entire thread about this one truck.

It's an automotive hermaphrodite.

Could it be the result of a genetic mutation, perhaps? The result of a drunken one-night stand between a truck and a SUV? Or did the production line get badly misconfigured when the union decided to celebrate April Fool's Day? Maybe a golf cart started experimenting with steroids, and this is the result: a (golf) Caddy.

I feel sorry for the miniscule bed. If we water it, do you think it will grow? If not, the owner is destined to never get the bro-cred of being asked to help somebody move. You can't even fit a mattress in there.

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2453 on: January 23, 2017, 03:15:33 PM »
You could probably make an entire thread about this one truck.

It's an automotive hermaphrodite.

Could it be the result of a genetic mutation, perhaps? The result of a drunken one-night stand between a truck and a SUV? Or did the production line get badly misconfigured when the union decided to celebrate April Fool's Day? Maybe a golf cart started experimenting with steroids, and this is the result: a (golf) Caddy.

I feel sorry for the miniscule bed. If we water it, do you think it will grow? If not, the owner is destined to never get the bro-cred of being asked to help somebody move. You can't even fit a mattress in there.

Uh... It is a 5.25 foot bed with the midgate up, and over 8 feet with it down. You can fit a full 4x8 sheet of plywood in it when necessary. I think it is the perfect compromise of pickup and SUV--I almost never needed the full bed size when I had my 3/4 ton Silverado. Actually, not, not almost never, never.


Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2454 on: January 23, 2017, 03:27:31 PM »
You could probably make an entire thread about this one truck.

It's an automotive hermaphrodite.

Could it be the result of a genetic mutation, perhaps? The result of a drunken one-night stand between a truck and a SUV? Or did the production line get badly misconfigured when the union decided to celebrate April Fool's Day? Maybe a golf cart started experimenting with steroids, and this is the result: a (golf) Caddy.

I feel sorry for the miniscule bed. If we water it, do you think it will grow? If not, the owner is destined to never get the bro-cred of being asked to help somebody move. You can't even fit a mattress in there.

 I saw a couple of trucks they were watering with the CA floods this morn on the news. Word is out whether that will help anything much.

BDWW

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2455 on: January 23, 2017, 04:58:38 PM »
Isn't that the Chevy Avalanche all dressed up for a formal ball? ;)

Basically. And the Avalanche is [functionally] a Honda Ridgeline for people who actually need a "real truck". I've found myself close enough to that category that I've seriously looked at all three, and readily admit that I would love to own an Escalade EXT. Never quite made sense for me though.

People who have them and Avalanches love them.

That's my experience as well, people who have them love them. As others mentioned, the bed works as is, or you can lower the rear seat and make it a long bed. The back has a built in locking cover. I've friends that put a mattress in the back and use it camping, with their heads in the cab, and bodies in the bed.

Dave1442397

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2456 on: January 23, 2017, 06:46:17 PM »
Isn't that the Chevy Avalanche all dressed up for a formal ball? ;)

Basically. And the Avalanche is [functionally] a Honda Ridgeline for people who actually need a "real truck". I've found myself close enough to that category that I've seriously looked at all three, and readily admit that I would love to own an Escalade EXT. Never quite made sense for me though.

People who have them and Avalanches love them.

My neighbor has an Avalanche (his third) and loves them. He has a business making and installing diving boards, and apparently this is the vehicle that works best for him.

To make this antimustachian, he bought a new Avalanche (in white) a few years ago, and had it for a few weeks. I walk the dog by his house every morning, so I noticed that he had hit something - the front bumper and grille were damaged, but not that badly. A few days later, he had another brand new Avalanche, this time in black.

I know he's a perfectionist when it comes to cars. He also has a Corvette convertible that lives under a cover in his garage, and the lights in his garage stay on 24/7, whether he's home or not. The Corvette gets replaced every time a new generation comes out.

That's my experience as well, people who have them love them. As others mentioned, the bed works as is, or you can lower the rear seat and make it a long bed. The back has a built in locking cover. I've friends that put a mattress in the back and use it camping, with their heads in the cab, and bodies in the bed.

kayvent

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2457 on: January 23, 2017, 08:22:26 PM »
I thought SUVs were originally based on trucks' frames? That could simply be the missing evolutionary link ;)

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2458 on: January 23, 2017, 11:18:07 PM »
You could probably make an entire thread about this one truck.

It's an automotive hermaphrodite.

Could it be the result of a genetic mutation, perhaps? The result of a drunken one-night stand between a truck and a SUV? Or did the production line get badly misconfigured when the union decided to celebrate April Fool's Day? Maybe a golf cart started experimenting with steroids, and this is the result: a (golf) Caddy.

I feel sorry for the miniscule bed. If we water it, do you think it will grow? If not, the owner is destined to never get the bro-cred of being asked to help somebody move. You can't even fit a mattress in there.

Uh... It is a 5.25 foot bed with the midgate up, and over 8 feet with it down. You can fit a full 4x8 sheet of plywood in it when necessary. I think it is the perfect compromise of pickup and SUV--I almost never needed the full bed size when I had my 3/4 ton Silverado. Actually, not, not almost never, never.

I can strap a full size sheet of plywood to the roof rack of my wagon.  Gotta admit it's hard to haul firewood or gravel, though.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2459 on: January 23, 2017, 11:35:00 PM »

Uh... It is a 5.25 foot bed with the midgate up, and over 8 feet with it down. You can fit a full 4x8 sheet of plywood in it when necessary. I think it is the perfect compromise of pickup and SUV--I almost never needed the full bed size when I had my 3/4 ton Silverado. Actually, not, not almost never, never.


I did not know this. This makes it much more practical than I would have guessed, looking at it. Of course, they still make my eyes cross when I stare at them too hard, but good to know they're useful on the inside.

TomTX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2460 on: January 24, 2017, 04:39:58 AM »
His reply to that was that this new truck was the Cadillac of trucks.

Cadillac makes a truck. Based on the Escalade. Yep, take a luxury SUV, and cut off... a full bed? No, just one row to make a tiny tiny bed. The bro-est of brodozers.



You could probably make an entire thread about this one truck.

Yep, definitely a rebadged Avalanche. Probably $1k of shiny doo-dads and such for a $20k bump in the sticker price.

Sydneystache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2461 on: January 24, 2017, 07:07:16 AM »
My brother-in-law (who has plenty of issues aside with past relationships, custody, bankruptcy etc) rang my partner asking if he wanted to buy his carbon fibre bike and associated accessories for $900. Partner asked me for advice because we're running out of space and we're both cyclists.

His mum had spoken to my partner previously saying his bro's having mechanical problems with his V8 ute and is cash flow challenged.

So I told my partner, buy it off him as he's your brother and make it an even $1,000 and as long as there's no cracks in the bike, it's a good deal without making the BIL feel we're feeling sorry for him as you're also getting his accessories (which we don't need as we have enough).

Anyway...partner comes back and says, yeah bought it. Also, he tells me next time you're up at his place (which I now refuse to go to as he's pretty anti-social), have a look at his new spa (north of $5000) which he bought (leased?) for his missus to ease her muscle tensions etc etc as you also wanted one (not anymore as I don't want any spa upmanships!)

I was going to ask whatever happened to the mechanical repairs for his ute (which he uses for work) but held my tongue because we've had arguments over his bro before. Just told him, I'm likely to visit him as he and his family are likely to visit us in our Sydney flat (which he doesn't despite numerous invitations and we've visited and stayed at his place many times eventhough we're only 90 minutes away).

So yes, I'll pass on the spa. Something about champagne on a beer budget and their mother would be appalled when she finds out he's bought a spa over fixing his ute. She keeps telling me he's not well off what with supporting his partner's kids (total of 4 under 18) but I wonder if he's being contrarian to her advice to not be so spendy or he's in denial about being able to afford a two-storey with pool, spa, v8 ute and suv in the long-term.

His latest effort to keep his current missus is to cut off his balls so she doesn't fall pregnant (which hubs and MIL have asked him not to do). I just thought wt?

Ok....there are some people who just need to make peace with their previous relationships before entering new ones with unresolved stuff.

I'm sure I'll post more on him in this thread. Can't vent on dear hubs anymore who's protective of younger bro.  *sigh*

paddedhat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2462 on: January 24, 2017, 08:08:19 AM »

His latest effort to keep his current missus is to cut off his balls so she doesn't fall pregnant (which hubs and MIL have asked him not to do). I just thought wt?



Damn, I didn't realize that medical procedures were so, shall we say "rustic" down under.  There are better ways, and I hear that a vasectomy is quite a bit easier to reverse that  gelding, LOL.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2463 on: January 24, 2017, 08:51:10 AM »
Anyway...partner comes back and says, yeah bought it. Also, he tells me next time you're up at his place (which I now refuse to go to as he's pretty anti-social), have a look at his new spa (north of $5000) which he bought (leased?) for his missus to ease her muscle tensions etc etc as you also wanted one (not anymore as I don't want any spa upmanships!)

You know what eases my muscle tension? Not making payments on a $5,000 personal spa.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2464 on: January 24, 2017, 09:25:57 AM »
Anyway...partner comes back and says, yeah bought it. Also, he tells me next time you're up at his place (which I now refuse to go to as he's pretty anti-social), have a look at his new spa (north of $5000) which he bought (leased?) for his missus to ease her muscle tensions etc etc as you also wanted one (not anymore as I don't want any spa upmanships!)

You know what eases my muscle tension? Not making payments on a $5,000 personal spa.

For $5000 you could get weekly 30 minutes massages for a few years and still have money left over.

Dave1442397

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2465 on: January 24, 2017, 10:56:19 AM »
Anyway...partner comes back and says, yeah bought it. Also, he tells me next time you're up at his place (which I now refuse to go to as he's pretty anti-social), have a look at his new spa (north of $5000) which he bought (leased?) for his missus to ease her muscle tensions etc etc as you also wanted one (not anymore as I don't want any spa upmanships!)

You know what eases my muscle tension? Not making payments on a $5,000 personal spa.

For $5000 you could get weekly 30 minutes massages for a few years and still have money left over.

And probably many happy endings, too :)

Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2466 on: January 24, 2017, 02:19:43 PM »
Younger sister (paraphrased): "mom and dad aren't respecting *an agreement they have* and say that because they're paying for X, they can decide to change the agreement whenever they want, and I feel completely disrespected, and it's not fair, etc, etc, etc!"

Me: "Yep. It ISN'T fair, and you did have the agreement, and they aren't respecting it. And it's typical, and it's how they deal with boundaries when finances are involved. It's frustrating. I understand. So you have 2 choices: you can figure out how to be independant, set your boundaries where you want them, and enforce it. Or you can calculate the amount you need to get there and determine that you can take the emotional bullshit for X amount of time in order to achieve freedom. This is your opportunity to decide how you value the $ vs bullshit tradeoff."

To be clear: I understand the frustration. I get it. But learning how to put dollar amounts on what you are and aren't willing to put up with, and organize your life so you won't have to put up with it if you decide it's not worth it? That's a life skill more people could stand to learn that young.

And frankly: my parents habit of completely and utterly disregarding any boundaries or necessary respect for people who are financially dependant on them is why I, at 22, made the choice to live on 20$/week of groceries, and put THAT on a credit card and pay credit card interest rates for 6 months until I could afford it, rather than ask my parents (who were bringing in a half-million a year) for a few hundred dollars to get me through. Sometimes, 20% interest is cheaper than the bullshit you'll have to swallow if you don't pay it. I love my parents, but man, never again will I be in that position.

And yes, that attitude deals with a LOT of baggage and has changed my relationship with money. Sorry, sister. Best you learn the lesson early.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 07:43:57 PM by Kitsune »

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2467 on: January 24, 2017, 03:37:04 PM »
Ding! Ding! Ding!

You win this afternoon's discussion by my measure.

I can relate. The last thing I'd do is ask my parents for money. It would come with some much baggage that I'd hear about it for the next 50 some odd years. Nuclear grade criticism.

They are still dragging up 1970s and 1980s family history occasionally and I was a good kid that stayed out of trouble.


Sydneystache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2468 on: January 24, 2017, 06:18:12 PM »
Anyway...partner comes back and says, yeah bought it. Also, he tells me next time you're up at his place (which I now refuse to go to as he's pretty anti-social), have a look at his new spa (north of $5000) which he bought (leased?) for his missus to ease her muscle tensions etc etc as you also wanted one (not anymore as I don't want any spa upmanships!)

You know what eases my muscle tension? Not making payments on a $5,000 personal spa.

For $5000 you could get weekly 30 minutes massages for a few years and still have money left over.

And probably many happy endings, too :)

LOL - thanks guys for the laughs.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2469 on: January 24, 2017, 07:22:02 PM »
Ding! Ding! Ding!

You win this afternoon's discussion by my measure.

I can relate. The last thing I'd do is ask my parents for money. It would come with some much baggage that I'd hear about it for the next 50 some odd years. Nuclear grade criticism.

They are still dragging up 1970s and 1980s family history occasionally and I was a good kid that stayed out of trouble.

This is so foreign to me. The more I read of stories like this, the more I appreciate my awesome parents, who may have faults but I can literally not even comprehend them treating anybody like this, much less a family member. Like it blows my mind that there are people like this.

Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2470 on: January 24, 2017, 07:42:58 PM »
Ding! Ding! Ding!

You win this afternoon's discussion by my measure.

I can relate. The last thing I'd do is ask my parents for money. It would come with some much baggage that I'd hear about it for the next 50 some odd years. Nuclear grade criticism.

They are still dragging up 1970s and 1980s family history occasionally and I was a good kid that stayed out of trouble.

This is so foreign to me. The more I read of stories like this, the more I appreciate my awesome parents, who may have faults but I can literally not even comprehend them treating anybody like this, much less a family member. Like it blows my mind that there are people like this.

There are a lot of parents with no respect for boundaries of people who are financially dependant on them. How often have you heard parents say, about, say, college-age children, "as long as I'm paying for school, s/he can't date x person/get a tattoo/live alone/decide their own major/have x hobby/go to this church/stop going to church/etc"? I've seen parents advocating for these positions ON THIS FORUM.

Some guidelines for money can make sense - i wouldn't pay for a 6-year music degree unless my kid could make a convincing argument as to why it was worth the money, yknow? But some of it is straight-up controlling as hell, and I'd absolutely rather be broke and in debt and living in a crap apartment and decide who I date, what I eat, what I chose to do in my free time, etc, than be dependant on someone badly enough that I'd have to knuckle down under those demands. Not. Worth. It. (First major blow-up of boundary-respecting with my mom, incidentally, was about 6 months after I graduated, when I was working 80-hour weeks and FINALLY had 2 days off in a row and she told me to cancel my date and take a bus "home" and spend my first free weekend in 2 months helping her throw a party. The words "you're no longer paying and so now I get to decide" were used. She didn't talk to me for 2 weeks. We get along much better now, but damned if I'd ever borrow 5$...)

And incidentally... teaching your kid that theyre allowed a say in their own life only if they're making more money? Sets really interesting relationship patterns that requires therapy to deal with. Would not recommend, as an educational tactic.


HappierAtHome

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2471 on: January 24, 2017, 07:58:11 PM »
Ding! Ding! Ding!

You win this afternoon's discussion by my measure.

I can relate. The last thing I'd do is ask my parents for money. It would come with some much baggage that I'd hear about it for the next 50 some odd years. Nuclear grade criticism.

They are still dragging up 1970s and 1980s family history occasionally and I was a good kid that stayed out of trouble.

This is so foreign to me. The more I read of stories like this, the more I appreciate my awesome parents, who may have faults but I can literally not even comprehend them treating anybody like this, much less a family member. Like it blows my mind that there are people like this.

Please call them today and tell them they're awesome.

My Dad still brings up how much I cost him when I was at high school... I'm turning 30 this year so it's well over a decade ago now and oh, by the way, I was a KID. He was an ADULT who was financially responsible for my care. It's not like I went to a private school or had horses or anything! Just a normal kid.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2472 on: January 24, 2017, 09:17:57 PM »
My Dad still brings up how much I cost him when I was at high school... I'm turning 30 this year so it's well over a decade ago now and oh, by the way, I was a KID. He was an ADULT who was financially responsible for my care. It's not like I went to a private school or had horses or anything! Just a normal kid.

Is he kidding?

For my 18th birthday, Mum bought me a beautiful card and signed it from both of them. Dad gave me piece of paper on which he had written, "Money's short and times are hard, so here's your bloody birthday card." I thought it was hilarious.

A couple of months later I moved away for uni and had to leave my dog with my parents. For my 21st Dad presented me with an invoice for my dog's expenses*. My dad is fun. :D



*Still have the invoice. Have not paid it.

HappierAtHome

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2473 on: January 24, 2017, 09:53:13 PM »
My Dad still brings up how much I cost him when I was at high school... I'm turning 30 this year so it's well over a decade ago now and oh, by the way, I was a KID. He was an ADULT who was financially responsible for my care. It's not like I went to a private school or had horses or anything! Just a normal kid.

Is he kidding?

Nope. He honestly believes that his financial situation is the direct and unavoidable outcome of having children, and not his choices such as:
Quitting perfectly good jobs. Repeatedly.
Investing his time and intellectual capital in get rich quick schemes "businesses" which never went anywhere.
Refusing to change his behaviour to be able to participate in traditional workplaces.
Investing his financial capital in incredibly risky speculative schemes and stocks.
Spending every dollar he earned.

He blew through at least one sizeable inheritance, too.

He thinks his children are "lucky" for having incredibly stable, well paid employment and being more financially stable than average (to varying degrees, but even the spendiest of us is able to save and live below our means). He doesn't see that this is a direct response to his behaviour and our strong desire not to live like that.

It used to upset me, a lot. Now every. single. time. he says anything about how much I cost him to raise, or how you can have a million dollars or kids but you can't have both, or whatever specific bullshit he's peddling that day, I say in a cheerful and joking tone of voice "well if you didn't want me, you should've worn a condom!" and then I change the subject.

Carless

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2474 on: January 24, 2017, 10:12:23 PM »
My Dad still brings up how much I cost him when I was at high school...

My grandmother did this to my dad a few times over university tuition.  Then he said "you know what, I'll pay you back.  How much was it?"  He was serious too - felt it was worth the $$$ to cut the emotional strings.  Of course she said that wasn't what she meant...but it never got brought up again.


Silverwood

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2475 on: January 24, 2017, 10:48:40 PM »
So when I was younger my parents didn't have a lot of money. They still managed to pay for my brothers expensive sport. Travel, hotels, expensive equipment. But they had a lot of fun with the other parents so I guess could justify it?  I was always  the tag along.  He had a different set of rules as I was a girl and he was a boy.  Which pretty much meant  he could do what he wanted.

Now, my parents have more money and I think are realizing just how much more my brother got.  It's gotten so I don't want to shop with my mother as she won't let me pay for my own purchases. 

My brother on the other hand got fired from his high paying job and won't stop whining about it.  Complains to my parents and feels like they should be helping him out more. But right after that will get them to babysit while him and his fiance go out for dinner and a movie. And after that decide to stay the night at my parents and get shit  faced.

Did I mention they are going on a 5000 dollar vacation in a week?! While my parents babysit, of course.

« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 10:50:13 PM by Silverwood »

Metric Mouse

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2476 on: January 25, 2017, 12:02:29 AM »
My Dad still brings up how much I cost him when I was at high school... I'm turning 30 this year so it's well over a decade ago now and oh, by the way, I was a KID. He was an ADULT who was financially responsible for my care. It's not like I went to a private school or had horses or anything! Just a normal kid.

Is he kidding?

For my 18th birthday, Mum bought me a beautiful card and signed it from both of them. Dad gave me piece of paper on which he had written, "Money's short and times are hard, so here's your bloody birthday card." I thought it was hilarious.

A couple of months later I moved away for uni and had to leave my dog with my parents. For my 21st Dad presented me with an invoice for my dog's expenses*. My dad is fun. :D



*Still have the invoice. Have not paid it.

Ha! Make sure you calculate it properly in your networth numbers. :D

HappierAtHome

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2477 on: January 25, 2017, 12:41:59 AM »
My Dad still brings up how much I cost him when I was at high school...

My grandmother did this to my dad a few times over university tuition.  Then he said "you know what, I'll pay you back.  How much was it?"  He was serious too - felt it was worth the $$$ to cut the emotional strings.  Of course she said that wasn't what she meant...but it never got brought up again.

I might try that! "How much money would I need to give you for you to never bring this up again in my presence?" might work.

Better discuss with spouse first in case he actually takes me up on it...

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2478 on: January 25, 2017, 01:05:28 AM »
So when I was younger my parents didn't have a lot of money. They still managed to pay for my brothers expensive sport. Travel, hotels, expensive equipment. But they had a lot of fun with the other parents so I guess could justify it?  I was always  the tag along.  He had a different set of rules as I was a girl and he was a boy.  Which pretty much meant  he could do what he wanted.

Now, my parents have more money and I think are realizing just how much more my brother got.  It's gotten so I don't want to shop with my mother as she won't let me pay for my own purchases. 

My youngest sibling sort of had this as a combination of both being the youngest (parents were skint and grandparents weren't so bothered about putting money in the bank account) and not going to university. We had a proper family chat and spoke about how much was in our childhood accounts and what parents spent on each of us at university and then parents wrote a cheque.

It really cleared the air and our relationship has been much better since. If I'd have realised how much upset the difference caused I'd have suggested it much earlier.

merula

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2479 on: January 25, 2017, 07:09:50 AM »
So when I was younger my parents didn't have a lot of money. They still managed to pay for my brothers expensive sport. Travel, hotels, expensive equipment. But they had a lot of fun with the other parents so I guess could justify it?  I was always  the tag along.  He had a different set of rules as I was a girl and he was a boy.  Which pretty much meant  he could do what he wanted.

Dollars to donuts this sport is hockey. Even odds you're in Minnesota or Wisconsin.

Growing up, my parents' rule was "one activity per kid". Somehow my brother's 3x/week hockey team, plus frequent out-of-town tournaments, was equivalent to either my 1x/week gymnastics class OR my biweekly Girl Scout troop, but I couldn't do both. I spent far more time sitting in the stands of a hockey arena than I ever did on my own activities.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2480 on: January 25, 2017, 07:39:38 AM »
I witnessed both of my brothers ask our parents for money while they were in university, probably totaling about 15k - 20k each. Money has never caused drama in our family but it gives me a nice feeling to remember that I put myself through school using my own savings, and I'm sure my parents are also appreciative.

Unrelated but, over the holidays our dad recommended to all of us that we read The Wealthy Barber, and how if you save 10% you can reach "freedom 55". I played dumb but commented that it would then make sense that if you saved more than 10%, you should be able to retire even earlier than 55.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2481 on: January 25, 2017, 07:48:03 AM »
Ding! Ding! Ding!

You win this afternoon's discussion by my measure.

I can relate. The last thing I'd do is ask my parents for money. It would come with some much baggage that I'd hear about it for the next 50 some odd years. Nuclear grade criticism.

They are still dragging up 1970s and 1980s family history occasionally and I was a good kid that stayed out of trouble.

This is so foreign to me. The more I read of stories like this, the more I appreciate my awesome parents, who may have faults but I can literally not even comprehend them treating anybody like this, much less a family member. Like it blows my mind that there are people like this.

There are a lot of parents with no respect for boundaries of people who are financially dependant on them. How often have you heard parents say, about, say, college-age children, "as long as I'm paying for school, s/he can't date x person/get a tattoo/live alone/decide their own major/have x hobby/go to this church/stop going to church/etc"? I've seen parents advocating for these positions ON THIS FORUM.

Some guidelines for money can make sense - i wouldn't pay for a 6-year music degree unless my kid could make a convincing argument as to why it was worth the money, yknow? But some of it is straight-up controlling as hell, and I'd absolutely rather be broke and in debt and living in a crap apartment and decide who I date, what I eat, what I chose to do in my free time, etc, than be dependant on someone badly enough that I'd have to knuckle down under those demands. Not. Worth. It. (First major blow-up of boundary-respecting with my mom, incidentally, was about 6 months after I graduated, when I was working 80-hour weeks and FINALLY had 2 days off in a row and she told me to cancel my date and take a bus "home" and spend my first free weekend in 2 months helping her throw a party. The words "you're no longer paying and so now I get to decide" were used. She didn't talk to me for 2 weeks. We get along much better now, but damned if I'd ever borrow 5$...)

And incidentally... teaching your kid that theyre allowed a say in their own life only if they're making more money? Sets really interesting relationship patterns that requires therapy to deal with. Would not recommend, as an educational tactic.

My family also suffers from perpetual "I told you so". Even when they are wrong sometimes they can turn a situation around into a "I told you so". Sometimes the "I told you so" is silent and implied and includes all sorts of judgements. Sometimes our choices/motivations overlap with them - you'd think we'd have some common ground to build upon - but that doesn't consistently functional rationally either so I gave up.

No way I'd bring money into that relationship. It's all so irrational and I don't try very hard to understand it any more. Wear and tear on the mind to try to sort out the impossible.

I can tell when I'm being manipulated and a carrot dangled in front of me to elicit some response. I've had promises of a used car, a new car and money dangled in front of me at different times. I was pretty young during the car promise era (decades ago) and got pretty worked up over the possibility b/c the car I bought and paid for with my own money was crap. It never materialized despite the promises. I never let that topic have any power over me again.

An inheritance was promised to me as well but I'm immune to that carrot thanks to the car debacle so long ago. I was supposed to bank on it - plan my own retirement around that and take things easy in life. Spend freely. Not. On. Your. Life. I have a golden sibling who did receive financial assistance and a college education. I worked my way through college.

Certainly part of it is me - I can be an odd duck occasionally (eclectic but always consistent) - and part of it is them. DW and I have been very careful and consistent with our own kids to prevent a repeat of any of my elders' behavior.

Went to a dinner a year or so ago and they tried to dangle the car carrot in front of my teenager just like they did me so many years before. Never mind what plans DW and I might have for the topic. They trod all over us. All very entertaining to them. You could practically see the teenager begin to drool over the prospect of a car given to him. The drive back to our home was an enlightened conversation for our teen. The power of their carrot is broken thankfully.

Sorry to derail your narrative Kitsune.

Yeah, these people exist.

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2482 on: January 25, 2017, 08:02:59 AM »
Oh - I remember another type of conversation I've had with my parents a number of times. The YOLO conversation.

Seems to either indicate they have forgotten what a mere mortal family budget looks like or they are humblebragging about their own success.

Of course some of that success came from my grandparents' financial gifts when I was a kid - but that is never mentioned in the bootstrapping stories.

Yeah I'd like to pay off my mortgage even earlier but the financial gift giving tradition started and ended with my grandparents and only extended to my parents, never all the way to us kids. Well it might have to my golden child sibling but never to me. ;)

(sibling got dollar matching on cars, deluxe college education, etc). Regardless DW and I are doing great but we don't brag to the family.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 08:25:56 AM by Tasty Pinecones »

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2483 on: January 25, 2017, 08:16:33 AM »
Nope. He honestly believes that his financial situation is the direct and unavoidable outcome of having children, and not his choices such as:
Quitting perfectly good jobs. Repeatedly.
Investing his time and intellectual capital in get rich quick schemes "businesses" which never went anywhere.
Refusing to change his behaviour to be able to participate in traditional workplaces.
Investing his financial capital in incredibly risky speculative schemes and stocks.
Spending every dollar he earned.

He blew through at least one sizeable inheritance, too.

He thinks his children are "lucky" for having incredibly stable, well paid employment and being more financially stable than average (to varying degrees, but even the spendiest of us is able to save and live below our means). He doesn't see that this is a direct response to his behaviour and our strong desire not to live like that.

It used to upset me, a lot. Now every. single. time. he says anything about how much I cost him to raise, or how you can have a million dollars or kids but you can't have both, or whatever specific bullshit he's peddling that day, I say in a cheerful and joking tone of voice "well if you didn't want me, you should've worn a condom!" and then I change the subject.

Wow, sorry you have a dad like this.  I can understand how it would be very upsetting to hear something like this.  Very good that you and your siblings have learned from it though. 

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2484 on: January 25, 2017, 10:07:29 AM »
So when I was younger my parents didn't have a lot of money. They still managed to pay for my brothers expensive sport. Travel, hotels, expensive equipment. But they had a lot of fun with the other parents so I guess could justify it?  I was always  the tag along.  He had a different set of rules as I was a girl and he was a boy.  Which pretty much meant  he could do what he wanted.

Dollars to donuts this sport is hockey. Even odds you're in Minnesota or Wisconsin.

Growing up, my parents' rule was "one activity per kid". Somehow my brother's 3x/week hockey team, plus frequent out-of-town tournaments, was equivalent to either my 1x/week gymnastics class OR my biweekly Girl Scout troop, but I couldn't do both. I spent far more time sitting in the stands of a hockey arena than I ever did on my own activities.


Close but a little more north  :)  You're right about the hockey part. 

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2485 on: January 25, 2017, 10:10:18 AM »
So when I was younger my parents didn't have a lot of money. They still managed to pay for my brothers expensive sport. Travel, hotels, expensive equipment. But they had a lot of fun with the other parents so I guess could justify it?  I was always  the tag along.  He had a different set of rules as I was a girl and he was a boy.  Which pretty much meant  he could do what he wanted.

Dollars to donuts this sport is hockey. Even odds you're in Minnesota or Wisconsin.

Growing up, my parents' rule was "one activity per kid". Somehow my brother's 3x/week hockey team, plus frequent out-of-town tournaments, was equivalent to either my 1x/week gymnastics class OR my biweekly Girl Scout troop, but I couldn't do both. I spent far more time sitting in the stands of a hockey arena than I ever did on my own activities.


Close but a little more north  :)  You're right about the hockey part.

My wife and I worry what we'll do if our kids don't end up in either Hockey or Figure Skating. We fear that they'll want to play football, or worse, soccer. But yeah, the time commitment is enormous.

wonkette

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2486 on: January 25, 2017, 11:53:14 AM »
So when I was younger my parents didn't have a lot of money. They still managed to pay for my brothers expensive sport. Travel, hotels, expensive equipment. But they had a lot of fun with the other parents so I guess could justify it?  I was always  the tag along.  He had a different set of rules as I was a girl and he was a boy.  Which pretty much meant  he could do what he wanted.

Dollars to donuts this sport is hockey. Even odds you're in Minnesota or Wisconsin.

Growing up, my parents' rule was "one activity per kid". Somehow my brother's 3x/week hockey team, plus frequent out-of-town tournaments, was equivalent to either my 1x/week gymnastics class OR my biweekly Girl Scout troop, but I couldn't do both. I spent far more time sitting in the stands of a hockey arena than I ever did on my own activities.


Close but a little more north  :)  You're right about the hockey part.

Silverwood, this was me except I had two brothers in hockey and had to fight my parents for $20 to share a hotel room at my  high school debate tournaments. My parents have very little savings (though there is an inheritance that might save them) and I plan on reminding my brothers of the easily $10k each that was spent on their hockey "educations" when my parents finances reach a breaking point. Solidarity!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2487 on: January 25, 2017, 01:42:32 PM »
It is sad to read about how many of you had not so good parents. I had great parents and tried to model them in raising my kids.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2488 on: January 25, 2017, 06:42:32 PM »
Nope. He honestly believes that his financial situation is the direct and unavoidable outcome of having children, and not his choices such as:
Quitting perfectly good jobs. Repeatedly.
Investing his time and intellectual capital in get rich quick schemes "businesses" which never went anywhere.
Refusing to change his behaviour to be able to participate in traditional workplaces.
Investing his financial capital in incredibly risky speculative schemes and stocks.
Spending every dollar he earned.

He blew through at least one sizeable inheritance, too.

He thinks his children are "lucky" for having incredibly stable, well paid employment and being more financially stable than average (to varying degrees, but even the spendiest of us is able to save and live below our means). He doesn't see that this is a direct response to his behaviour and our strong desire not to live like that.

It used to upset me, a lot. Now every. single. time. he says anything about how much I cost him to raise, or how you can have a million dollars or kids but you can't have both, or whatever specific bullshit he's peddling that day, I say in a cheerful and joking tone of voice "well if you didn't want me, you should've worn a condom!" and then I change the subject.

Wow, sorry you have a dad like this.  I can understand how it would be very upsetting to hear something like this.  Very good that you and your siblings have learned from it though.

He's a great father in many ways. Just not this one :-)

My siblings are awesome. We've all built happy, stable, successful lives against the odds.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2489 on: January 26, 2017, 08:03:51 AM »
It is sad to read about how many of you had not so good parents. I had great parents and tried to model them in raising my kids.

That which does not kill you makes you stronger - right?

You take the good examples they give you and do something differently for the things that we not done well.

I am very different from my family and to me that is a plus.

DW and I have raised a couple of kids who have a relationship more like DW's and her parents which is good.

Our little family actually enjoys spending time together - unlike my parents who vacationed to "get away" from it all including leaving us kids at the grandparents' house. That wasn't bad b/c it gave me a break to be in an environment more like a 60s TV family and my kid stress level went to zero. Cookies, field trips, model cars and cookouts.

My parents were just (and continue to be) wound tight - too tight. And they are never, ever wrong - even when they really are... ;) In some ways it can be like listening to Trump with his alternative-truths. As an adult you shrug it off. As a kid you are stuck confused and suffering from self-doubt. We have heard our share of "revisionist history" in the dinner table recollections with my parents. Remember they are never wrong and the self-doubt that can lead to.

All in all at least they weren't helicopter parents and it being the 70s - I basically played outside all day with friends and was due in when it got dark. I had alot of freedom at times though during HS they assumed the worst and I was on a very short leash. Like I said before - I was basically a good kid though. Stayed out of trouble. Some folks talk about HS being their favorite period in their life. For me it was my time overseas and my college years.

For me my relationship with my parents led to a silent vow that I'd never ask for money, seek to live in their house again or rely on them. These days we try to have a good relationship with them and its worked out that we are at arm's length so to speak. We are giving and invite them to our house often but like my sibling they are "so busy" and that is probably for the best.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2490 on: January 26, 2017, 08:36:20 AM »
One of the major regrets in my life is taking so much (money (mostly for education) and living in their house way after 18) from my parents, because not it feels like I "owe" them. The thing I would love to do over in my life is ever living at home again after I started university. My mother's "love language" is gifts, but that's also her transactional "you owe me" language. I went to private school with lots of extras, I barely had to get any student loans, I did a postgrad course while living at home... And I would give it all back in a heartbeat if I could be free of the sense of obligation. I can forgive myself for all the stuff I asked for (and didn't ask for) and got as a child, because children don't know any better. But I wish I'd realised before age about 24 that the money wasn't worth the emotional toll, and that I'd been brave enough to do something about it. If you have parents who don't make love or gifts conditional, I hope you are grateful for them every single day of your life.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2491 on: January 26, 2017, 09:54:13 AM »
Like tasty pinecone said,  you take the good with the bad. I can feel really good at how far I've come on my own and it's made me who i am.  My parents and I have a great relationship now that I'm older and haven't lived with them for over 10 years. I've accepted them for them ( still a work in progress). They didn't have it easy either.   It's interesting because I can trace back why they act certain ways through my grandparents and great grandparents.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2492 on: January 26, 2017, 10:45:02 AM »
My wife and I worry what we'll do if our kids don't end up in either Hockey or Figure Skating. We fear that they'll want to play football, or worse, soccer. But yeah, the time commitment is enormous.
I don't understand the stigma of preventing your kids from playing a very mustachian sport. Wow!
'Murica, yeah!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2493 on: January 26, 2017, 01:14:16 PM »
My wife and I worry what we'll do if our kids don't end up in either Hockey or Figure Skating. We fear that they'll want to play football, or worse, soccer. But yeah, the time commitment is enormous.
I don't understand the stigma of preventing your kids from playing a very mustachian sport. Wow!
'Murica, yeah!

We both hate soccer. Hated playing it, and hate watching it. Maybe if I could see it live on primetime I'd care, but it bores me to death--it is worse to watch than baseball or golf, and I enjoy watching both of those.

As it is, we both enjoy golf, baseball, hockey, figure skating, lacrosse, fishing, tennis, volleyball, and basketball... And only hockey and figure skating are really unmustachian from those (although any can be made to be unmustachian).

We just can't stand soccer.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2494 on: January 26, 2017, 01:46:11 PM »
it is worse to watch than baseball or golf, and I enjoy watching both of those.

Not to defend soccer, but if you're comparing it to two things you enjoy watching, of course it will be "worse to watch."

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2495 on: January 26, 2017, 01:54:43 PM »
it is worse to watch than baseball or golf, and I enjoy watching both of those.

Not to defend soccer, but if you're comparing it to two things you enjoy watching, of course it will be "worse to watch."

That doesn't detract from my point. I can't stand watching soccer. I don't want to have to watch it, and if my kid plays it, I'll have to watch it.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2496 on: January 26, 2017, 02:46:23 PM »
My wife and I worry what we'll do if our kids don't end up in either Hockey or Figure Skating. We fear that they'll want to play football, or worse, soccer. But yeah, the time commitment is enormous.
I don't understand the stigma of preventing your kids from playing a very mustachian sport. Wow!
'Murica, yeah!

We both hate soccer. Hated playing it, and hate watching it. Maybe if I could see it live on primetime I'd care, but it bores me to death--it is worse to watch than baseball or golf, and I enjoy watching both of those.

As it is, we both enjoy golf, baseball, hockey, figure skating, lacrosse, fishing, tennis, volleyball, and basketball... And only hockey and figure skating are really unmustachian from those (although any can be made to be unmustachian).

We just can't stand soccer.

Just think of it as slow, boring hockey for countries that don't have ice.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2497 on: January 26, 2017, 02:52:30 PM »
Just think of it as slow, boring hockey for countries that don't have ice.
Apt Description.  Hockey, soccer, basketball, water polo, handball, field hockey, lacrosse - all variations of the same fundamental game of "put a special object into the other team's receptacle".

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2498 on: January 26, 2017, 03:14:03 PM »
At least it keeps moving. That is vastly more entertaining than American football where you mostly watch fat man-boys in tights wander around on the sidelines waiting for a play to start. The action is over in 5 seconds and then we are back to commercials or spandex butt shots.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2499 on: January 26, 2017, 03:15:45 PM »
At least it keeps moving. That is vastly more entertaining than American football where you mostly watch fat man-boys in tights wander around on the sidelines waiting for a play to start. The action is over in 5 seconds and then we are back to commercials or spandex butt shots.

Fixate much?