Relatives who just don't get it

[mtn]

My SIL is something else and it never stops.

Before I came into the picture, she started by earning her degree in French. Took out a bunch of loans for school of course. Then she went on a six month internship to France. The best part is she took some sort of unpaid internship and took out loans/ CC to pay for this 6 month binge of French culture.

I start dating my now wife and we get married (about 5 years ago). At this point, said SIL is in her late 20's living at home working odd part time jobs because what else can you do with a degree in French in a small midwestern town? Well, she finally got a job at the local University (yay for benefits and adulting, right?). So, you figure since she was living rent-free that she would stockpile savings and eventually move out? Nope.

A couple years later my FIL and MIL finally "kick" her out by all of us encouraging her to get out on her own. She finally gets an apartment, which by the way she pays $400 a month (small town midwest is cheap) all the while complaining about how she has no money. She is making around 40k by the way. However, she loves pampering herself and spending lots of money. Days at the salon, massages, spa, and other high end services that she can't afford. She literally gets a massage per week because "she works hard and wasn't pampered growing up".  Keep in mind this is a great small town family with midwest roots and frugal parents (for the most part) so she should be a bit more "grounded".

Anyway, flash forward to current times. She has pretty much moved back in with MIL. Once her lease is up in April, I think she will be officially back in there. She says 40k isn't enough to live on her own and her MIL is buying this crap again. Somehow, 10 years after college she still hasn't paid back her student loans, still has debt from CC, and hasn't learned anything from the things we have tried to teach her. The best part is that she has been staying at the MIL's pretty much every night. Yet, she still has cable hooked up at her apartment, runs the heat at 72 degrees, and has internet. And, she is never even there except to grab clothes.

I love my MIL but the enabling drives up the wall.

My daughter is majoring in French.  I've encouraged her to pair it with some business or tech classes.  Of course, I majored in English...

I don't think that a straight French or English or History degree is the worst thing in the world. The challenge they present is getting that first job. In that case, prior work experience and connections are of utmost importance. But after a year or two it doesn't hurt all that much.

[Adventine]

My SIL is something else and it never stops.

Before I came into the picture, she started by earning her degree in French. Took out a bunch of loans for school of course. Then she went on a six month internship to France. The best part is she took some sort of unpaid internship and took out loans/ CC to pay for this 6 month binge of French culture.

I start dating my now wife and we get married (about 5 years ago). At this point, said SIL is in her late 20's living at home working odd part time jobs because what else can you do with a degree in French in a small midwestern town? Well, she finally got a job at the local University (yay for benefits and adulting, right?). So, you figure since she was living rent-free that she would stockpile savings and eventually move out? Nope.

A couple years later my FIL and MIL finally "kick" her out by all of us encouraging her to get out on her own. She finally gets an apartment, which by the way she pays $400 a month (small town midwest is cheap) all the while complaining about how she has no money. She is making around 40k by the way. However, she loves pampering herself and spending lots of money. Days at the salon, massages, spa, and other high end services that she can't afford. She literally gets a massage per week because "she works hard and wasn't pampered growing up".  Keep in mind this is a great small town family with midwest roots and frugal parents (for the most part) so she should be a bit more "grounded".

Anyway, flash forward to current times. She has pretty much moved back in with MIL. Once her lease is up in April, I think she will be officially back in there. She says 40k isn't enough to live on her own and her MIL is buying this crap again. Somehow, 10 years after college she still hasn't paid back her student loans, still has debt from CC, and hasn't learned anything from the things we have tried to teach her. The best part is that she has been staying at the MIL's pretty much every night. Yet, she still has cable hooked up at her apartment, runs the heat at 72 degrees, and has internet. And, she is never even there except to grab clothes.

I love my MIL but the enabling drives up the wall.

My daughter is majoring in French.  I've encouraged her to pair it with some business or tech classes.  Of course, I majored in English...

I don't think that a straight French or English or History degree is the worst thing in the world. The challenge they present is getting that first job. In that case, prior work experience and connections are of utmost importance. But after a year or two it doesn't hurt all that much.

I actually majored in French and minored in English literature. I was employed a month before my actual college graduation ceremony. It's been eight years since then, and the longest time I've been unemployed is right now (a grand total of two weeks). I live in a Third World country. And I'm still well on my way to FIRE.

It isn't the French major that's the problem. It's the person holding the degree.

[mustachepungoeshere]

Staying with relatives this weekend, and it happens to be a hot couple of days.

Their AC is on the blink, so it cuts out after a few minutes. (I think it's a thermostat problem but they just looked at me blankly when I mentioned it.)

So they turn AC on, make a big fuss about standing in front of it to cool down, then it cuts out, and they complain about how hot it is and wait for it to come back on.

The heat isn't nearly as bad as listening to them complain about it.

Even worse is that there is a reasonable breeze out there - just give up on the AC and open the bloody windows!

We don't have AC at home so we have adapted to the heat to some extent, but my husband has been in snowy parts of the US for a week and even he is raising an eyebrow at the hysterics over a warm day.

[Playing with Fire UK]

My SIL is something else and it never stops.
...
I love my MIL but the enabling drives up the wall.

Sounds like being in debt is her normal, she may not understand (deep down internally) that it does not have to be that way.  She may see others out of debt but does not really apply it to herself.  Or she really likes massages and sushi and is willing to live with her parents to make that happen... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

IME, this behaviour comes from the answer to 'can I afford it?' and 'is there space on my credit card?' being the same.

[Playing with Fire UK]

I still feel terrible about the time I witnessed family members yelling at, scolding, and berating my wonderful, gentle dad when he was acting in kind of an irrational way - going off to do something completely at odds with the task the family was trying to accomplish at the time. He was, in their minds, not being a team player. The look on his face when being yelled at pains me still. So confused. I know now it was his Alzheimer's at work.

Interesting point, thanks. I see this in my dad all the time. But he's been doing it for 20 years and is a world class dickhead, so it's probably that.

[Friar]

I still feel terrible about the time I witnessed family members yelling at, scolding, and berating my wonderful, gentle dad when he was acting in kind of an irrational way - going off to do something completely at odds with the task the family was trying to accomplish at the time. He was, in their minds, not being a team player. The look on his face when being yelled at pains me still. So confused. I know now it was his Alzheimer's at work.

Interesting point, thanks. I see this in my dad all the time. But he's been doing it for 20 years and is a world class dickhead, so it's probably that.

This got a chuckle out of me. Imagining JoeO meeting your dad interacting with your family and seeing your father do this, pulling you to one side and considerately explaining that your father may have dementia. Only for you to turn around and go "Nope, just a dick."

[Playing with Fire UK]

Yep, JoeO sounds like a better person than me!

[Metric Mouse]

My SIL is something else and it never stops.

Before I came into the picture, she started by earning her degree in French. Took out a bunch of loans for school of course. Then she went on a six month internship to France. The best part is she took some sort of unpaid internship and took out loans/ CC to pay for this 6 month binge of French culture.

I start dating my now wife and we get married (about 5 years ago). At this point, said SIL is in her late 20's living at home working odd part time jobs because what else can you do with a degree in French in a small midwestern town? Well, she finally got a job at the local University (yay for benefits and adulting, right?). So, you figure since she was living rent-free that she would stockpile savings and eventually move out? Nope.

A couple years later my FIL and MIL finally "kick" her out by all of us encouraging her to get out on her own. She finally gets an apartment, which by the way she pays $400 a month (small town midwest is cheap) all the while complaining about how she has no money. She is making around 40k by the way. However, she loves pampering herself and spending lots of money. Days at the salon, massages, spa, and other high end services that she can't afford. She literally gets a massage per week because "she works hard and wasn't pampered growing up".  Keep in mind this is a great small town family with midwest roots and frugal parents (for the most part) so she should be a bit more "grounded".

Anyway, flash forward to current times. She has pretty much moved back in with MIL. Once her lease is up in April, I think she will be officially back in there. She says 40k isn't enough to live on her own and her MIL is buying this crap again. Somehow, 10 years after college she still hasn't paid back her student loans, still has debt from CC, and hasn't learned anything from the things we have tried to teach her. The best part is that she has been staying at the MIL's pretty much every night. Yet, she still has cable hooked up at her apartment, runs the heat at 72 degrees, and has internet. And, she is never even there except to grab clothes.

I love my MIL but the enabling drives up the wall.

My daughter is majoring in French.  I've encouraged her to pair it with some business or tech classes.  Of course, I majored in English...

I don't think that a straight French or English or History degree is the worst thing in the world. The challenge they present is getting that first job. In that case, prior work experience and connections are of utmost importance. But after a year or two it doesn't hurt all that much.

I actually majored in French and minored in English literature. I was employed a month before my actual college graduation ceremony. It's been eight years since then, and the longest time I've been unemployed is right now (a grand total of two weeks). I live in a Third World country. And I'm still well on my way to FIRE.

It isn't the French major that's the problem. It's the person holding the degree.

Here I thought it was my degree that was worthless. Turns out it's just me! :D

[Sibley]

My father in law is now living alone in his big house, full of old hobby stuff from his wife who has now moved to a home. He is cleaning his house out and giving away lots of things. I talked to him about our version of Craig's list and asked if he wanted me to demonstrate how it worked. Then at least he would be able to earn some money from all the stuff. I also gave some examples of what we tend to sell and buy.

He answered that he thought it was too much hassle to sell stuff online. And that he didn't know what price to ask. I answered that for the price, you just look up the item online and take a similar price. After a while he started to realize that maybe he should start selling, but concentrate the selling in a shorter period of time.

I agree with him that it is a bit of hassle, but giving away all that stuff for free is such a waste of money.

This brings up an interesting point. Both my parents suffered from Alzheimer's from the time they were in their late 70s. However, we can only see when it started by looking back on it now.

There were very - extremely - subtle clues that only made sense later on. There were tasks and decisions and ways of doing things that they should have been able, willing, even wanting to do, but that they were inexplicably resistant to. They fought the idea of doing these tasks, came up with excuses, etc. Looking back, I think we can see that they actually were no longer able to process our suggestions or requests, or simply no longer able to execute. Early dementia is SO SUBTLE.

Just something to keep in mind when dealing with older parents and grandparents and trying to help them or get them to help themselves. They literally may not be able to. And people with very early dementia tend to "cover" for a while.

I still feel terrible about the time I witnessed family members yelling at, scolding, and berating my wonderful, gentle dad when he was acting in kind of an irrational way - going off to do something completely at odds with the task the family was trying to accomplish at the time. He was, in their minds, not being a team player. The look on his face when being yelled at pains me still. So confused. I know now it was his Alzheimer's at work.

Yep, we're about 98% sure my dad has early dementia. Some of the effects on the family (ie, who does what) have been fascinating. Mom drives almost all the time. Used to be dad. I do their taxes and help with big picture money stuff. Used to be dad, with heavy resistance if I offered. Sister is handling legal stuff more, with mom's help. The biggest thing we see is I can't ask dad to do a list of things - he just can't do it. It's one at a time, and more complex things he can't handle even broken down. The executive processing skills are not there anymore. This is a man who had the electrical, plumbing, and carpentry skills to practically build his own house if he wanted. And now he can't hang curtains.

[Linea_Norway]

My father in law is now living alone in his big house, full of old hobby stuff from his wife who has now moved to a home. He is cleaning his house out and giving away lots of things. I talked to him about our version of Craig's list and asked if he wanted me to demonstrate how it worked. Then at least he would be able to earn some money from all the stuff. I also gave some examples of what we tend to sell and buy.

He answered that he thought it was too much hassle to sell stuff online. And that he didn't know what price to ask. I answered that for the price, you just look up the item online and take a similar price. After a while he started to realize that maybe he should start selling, but concentrate the selling in a shorter period of time.

I agree with him that it is a bit of hassle, but giving away all that stuff for free is such a waste of money.

This brings up an interesting point. Both my parents suffered from Alzheimer's from the time they were in their late 70s. However, we can only see when it started by looking back on it now.

There were very - extremely - subtle clues that only made sense later on. There were tasks and decisions and ways of doing things that they should have been able, willing, even wanting to do, but that they were inexplicably resistant to. They fought the idea of doing these tasks, came up with excuses, etc. Looking back, I think we can see that they actually were no longer able to process our suggestions or requests, or simply no longer able to execute. Early dementia is SO SUBTLE.

Just something to keep in mind when dealing with older parents and grandparents and trying to help them or get them to help themselves. They literally may not be able to. And people with very early dementia tend to "cover" for a while.

I still feel terrible about the time I witnessed family members yelling at, scolding, and berating my wonderful, gentle dad when he was acting in kind of an irrational way - going off to do something completely at odds with the task the family was trying to accomplish at the time. He was, in their minds, not being a team player. The look on his face when being yelled at pains me still. So confused. I know now it was his Alzheimer's at work.

Yep, we're about 98% sure my dad has early dementia. Some of the effects on the family (ie, who does what) have been fascinating. Mom drives almost all the time. Used to be dad. I do their taxes and help with big picture money stuff. Used to be dad, with heavy resistance if I offered. Sister is handling legal stuff more, with mom's help. The biggest thing we see is I can't ask dad to do a list of things - he just can't do it. It's one at a time, and more complex things he can't handle even broken down. The executive processing skills are not there anymore. This is a man who had the electrical, plumbing, and carpentry skills to practically build his own house if he wanted. And now he can't hang curtains.

In our case it is the opposite. My MIL has now real dementia and has had slightly noticeable early dementia for years. FIL is not there, he seems to me mentally fine. He has been looking after his wife for a long time, but couldn't cope with it any more after she went out of bed 12 times every night, requiring a lot of assistance on many fronts. FIL couldn't get any sleep because of her. For his reluctance of using his local version of Craig's list, I think he is just not used selling stuff online and has probably never done this before. He also managed to have a really full personal program and social life after he retired. Much more than his wife had. I think this might have contributed to her deteriorating sooner.

[marion10]

There are a lot of scammers out there. I'd be wary of my elderly parents putting things on Craig's list- they could get robbed later.

[BFGirl]

My SIL is something else and it never stops.

Before I came into the picture, she started by earning her degree in French. Took out a bunch of loans for school of course. Then she went on a six month internship to France. The best part is she took some sort of unpaid internship and took out loans/ CC to pay for this 6 month binge of French culture.

I start dating my now wife and we get married (about 5 years ago). At this point, said SIL is in her late 20's living at home working odd part time jobs because what else can you do with a degree in French in a small midwestern town? Well, she finally got a job at the local University (yay for benefits and adulting, right?). So, you figure since she was living rent-free that she would stockpile savings and eventually move out? Nope.

A couple years later my FIL and MIL finally "kick" her out by all of us encouraging her to get out on her own. She finally gets an apartment, which by the way she pays $400 a month (small town midwest is cheap) all the while complaining about how she has no money. She is making around 40k by the way. However, she loves pampering herself and spending lots of money. Days at the salon, massages, spa, and other high end services that she can't afford. She literally gets a massage per week because "she works hard and wasn't pampered growing up".  Keep in mind this is a great small town family with midwest roots and frugal parents (for the most part) so she should be a bit more "grounded".

Anyway, flash forward to current times. She has pretty much moved back in with MIL. Once her lease is up in April, I think she will be officially back in there. She says 40k isn't enough to live on her own and her MIL is buying this crap again. Somehow, 10 years after college she still hasn't paid back her student loans, still has debt from CC, and hasn't learned anything from the things we have tried to teach her. The best part is that she has been staying at the MIL's pretty much every night. Yet, she still has cable hooked up at her apartment, runs the heat at 72 degrees, and has internet. And, she is never even there except to grab clothes.

I love my MIL but the enabling drives up the wall.

My daughter is majoring in French.  I've encouraged her to pair it with some business or tech classes.  Of course, I majored in English...

I don't think that a straight French or English or History degree is the worst thing in the world. The challenge they present is getting that first job. In that case, prior work experience and connections are of utmost importance. But after a year or two it doesn't hurt all that much.

I actually majored in French and minored in English literature. I was employed a month before my actual college graduation ceremony. It's been eight years since then, and the longest time I've been unemployed is right now (a grand total of two weeks). I live in a Third World country. And I'm still well on my way to FIRE.

It isn't the French major that's the problem. It's the person holding the degree.

That's awesome!  What type of job did you get?  My daughter would like to travel and loves culture and languages (and is very good at them).  I'd love to give her more ideas of job possibilities.

[Adventine]

My SIL is something else and it never stops.

Before I came into the picture, she started by earning her degree in French. Took out a bunch of loans for school of course. Then she went on a six month internship to France. The best part is she took some sort of unpaid internship and took out loans/ CC to pay for this 6 month binge of French culture.

I start dating my now wife and we get married (about 5 years ago). At this point, said SIL is in her late 20's living at home working odd part time jobs because what else can you do with a degree in French in a small midwestern town? Well, she finally got a job at the local University (yay for benefits and adulting, right?). So, you figure since she was living rent-free that she would stockpile savings and eventually move out? Nope.

A couple years later my FIL and MIL finally "kick" her out by all of us encouraging her to get out on her own. She finally gets an apartment, which by the way she pays $400 a month (small town midwest is cheap) all the while complaining about how she has no money. She is making around 40k by the way. However, she loves pampering herself and spending lots of money. Days at the salon, massages, spa, and other high end services that she can't afford. She literally gets a massage per week because "she works hard and wasn't pampered growing up".  Keep in mind this is a great small town family with midwest roots and frugal parents (for the most part) so she should be a bit more "grounded".

Anyway, flash forward to current times. She has pretty much moved back in with MIL. Once her lease is up in April, I think she will be officially back in there. She says 40k isn't enough to live on her own and her MIL is buying this crap again. Somehow, 10 years after college she still hasn't paid back her student loans, still has debt from CC, and hasn't learned anything from the things we have tried to teach her. The best part is that she has been staying at the MIL's pretty much every night. Yet, she still has cable hooked up at her apartment, runs the heat at 72 degrees, and has internet. And, she is never even there except to grab clothes.

I love my MIL but the enabling drives up the wall.

My daughter is majoring in French.  I've encouraged her to pair it with some business or tech classes.  Of course, I majored in English...

I don't think that a straight French or English or History degree is the worst thing in the world. The challenge they present is getting that first job. In that case, prior work experience and connections are of utmost importance. But after a year or two it doesn't hurt all that much.

I actually majored in French and minored in English literature. I was employed a month before my actual college graduation ceremony. It's been eight years since then, and the longest time I've been unemployed is right now (a grand total of two weeks). I live in a Third World country. And I'm still well on my way to FIRE.

It isn't the French major that's the problem. It's the person holding the degree.

That's awesome!  What type of job did you get?  My daughter would like to travel and loves culture and languages (and is very good at them).  I'd love to give her more ideas of job possibilities.

I've worked for several companies in the financial services and government sectors, all using my French/English/Filipino translation skills. Basically, foreign language skills are a niche specialization where I live, so employers pay a premium for people with those skills.

It's also linked to the global outsourcing trend. All the industries I've worked in are moving core functions from expensive First World locations to much cheaper global service centers/shared service centers in the Philippines. I've worked with a lot of expats who have moved here as part of the migration. They do pretty well.

[BlueHouse]

60" teddy bear, seems kinda like a white elephant!

I swear that almost every single big box retailer in my area was selling these things for $20 on Black Friday.

oh gods, yes.  Why don't they just put a sign on them that says:  "You don't know your grandchild, but you want them to love you best.  Buy me!"  I felt sorry for every person I saw tying this thing to the roof of their car.  It just seemed like a pathetic attempt to buy love. 

Oh no, I've become mustache-cynical.

[Pooperman]

60" teddy bear, seems kinda like a white elephant!

I swear that almost every single big box retailer in my area was selling these things for $20 on Black Friday.

oh gods, yes.  Why don't they just put a sign on them that says:  "You don't know your grandchild, but you want them to love you best.  Buy me!"  I felt sorry for every person I saw tying this thing to the roof of their car.  It just seemed like a pathetic attempt to buy love. 

Oh no, I've become mustache-cynical.

I bought a huge teddy for my now wife because I thought it was super funny, and it kinda worked like a chair It was more of a gag gift than anything else.

[Daleth]

I actually majored in French and minored in English literature. I was employed a month before my actual college graduation ceremony. It's been eight years since then, and the longest time I've been unemployed is right now (a grand total of two weeks). I live in a Third World country. And I'm still well on my way to FIRE.

It isn't the French major that's the problem. It's the person holding the degree.

Exactly. And a foreign language is at least an actual skill. With many humanities subjects, a lot of people incorrectly think they're as good as someone with a college major in the subject; I met a lot of "I'm smart, I went to college, therefore I can write" people in my pre-lawyer career as a grantwriter and copywriter, and believe me, those people were wrong. And I'm sure it's the same with things like history ("I'm smart, I watch the History Channel..."). At least with a foreign language major, every reasonable person on earth realizes that you do have an actual skill that they don't have.

[Daleth]

That's awesome!  What type of job did you get?  My daughter would like to travel and loves culture and languages (and is very good at them).  I'd love to give her more ideas of job possibilities.

Depending how good her language skills are (or how much more time she's willing/able to invest in improving them), any of the following is a pretty obvious option--though again it also depends what her other interests and priorities are:

- Teaching (this will require a teaching certificate if she wants to work in public schools, but WARN HER AWAY from doing a French PhD in hopes of becoming a college professor--almost the only college French teaching jobs available these days are adjunct positions, which are absolutely awful, with no benefits or job security; in any given year you're lucky if there are more than 8-10 tenure track French professor jobs available in the ENTIRE United States, including jobs at tiny community colleges in horrible places hardly anyone wants to live, and I guarantee each of those jobs will have 500-1000 applicants--it's a terrible market)

- Hospitality (hotels, restaurants, etc., domestic or international; or major-city Chambers of Commerce)

- Tourism (e.g. being a tour guide--I know a guy who started a company that does bicycle tours in France; he goes there several times a year, that's his life now)

- Translation

- Interpretation

- Country-specific commerce (e.g. working for a wine importer or some other type of company that does a lot of business with France; fashion and cinema might be two other areas where there would be this type of work; as a similar though non-French example I heard of a high-fashion shoe store run by a woman who goes to Spain at least twice a year to find new shoe styles she wants to import)

[Adventine]

I actually majored in French and minored in English literature. I was employed a month before my actual college graduation ceremony. It's been eight years since then, and the longest time I've been unemployed is right now (a grand total of two weeks). I live in a Third World country. And I'm still well on my way to FIRE.

It isn't the French major that's the problem. It's the person holding the degree.

Exactly. And a foreign language is at least an actual skill. With many humanities subjects, a lot of people incorrectly think they're as good as someone with a college major in the subject; I met a lot of "I'm smart, I went to college, therefore I can write" people in my pre-lawyer career as a grantwriter and copywriter, and believe me, those people were wrong. And I'm sure it's the same with things like history ("I'm smart, I watch the History Channel..."). At least with a foreign language major, every reasonable person on earth realizes that you do have an actual skill that they don't have.

I see this a lot, too. People underestimate the humanities in general.

[SwordGuy]

And I'm sure it's the same with things like history ("I'm smart, I watch the History Channel...").

I live with a professional historian.  I'm an amateur historian.   

If you get your history from the History Channel, you're getting a lot of bad information.

[mm1970]

It's also linked to the global outsourcing trend. All the industries I've worked in are moving core functions from expensive First World locations to much cheaper global service centers/shared service centers in the Philippines. I've worked with a lot of expats who have moved here as part of the migration. They do pretty well.

Yup, I'm an engineer and my company outsources to the Philippines.

[MgoSam]

And I'm sure it's the same with things like history ("I'm smart, I watch the History Channel...").

I live with a professional historian.  I'm an amateur historian.   

If you get your history from the History Channel, you're getting a lot of bad information.

Does the History Channel even do history anymore? I remember in high school loving HC, they had analysis on battles and historical figures and it felt fascinating.

[thebattlewalrus]

And I'm sure it's the same with things like history ("I'm smart, I watch the History Channel...").

I live with a professional historian.  I'm an amateur historian.   

If you get your history from the History Channel, you're getting a lot of bad information.

Does the History Channel even do history anymore? I remember in high school loving HC, they had analysis on battles and historical figures and it felt fascinating.

Not much, more reality series garbage IMO than anything else. I think that they still occasionally do historical figures/famous battles but I am not sure.

[slugline]

And I'm sure it's the same with things like history ("I'm smart, I watch the History Channel...").

I live with a professional historian.  I'm an amateur historian.   

If you get your history from the History Channel, you're getting a lot of bad information.

Does the History Channel even do history anymore? I remember in high school loving HC, they had analysis on battles and historical figures and it felt fascinating.

The last time I checked, the answer was no. And the sister H2 channel, which seemed like the last refuge of History's history programming, was turned over to Vice some time ago.  A lot of war history programming can be found now on American Heroes Channel (formerly Military Channel).

[MgoSam]

And I'm sure it's the same with things like history ("I'm smart, I watch the History Channel...").

I live with a professional historian.  I'm an amateur historian.   

If you get your history from the History Channel, you're getting a lot of bad information.

Does the History Channel even do history anymore? I remember in high school loving HC, they had analysis on battles and historical figures and it felt fascinating.

The last time I checked, the answer was no. And the sister H2 channel, which seemed like the last refuge of History's history programming, was turned over to Vice some time ago.  A lot of war history programming can be found now on American Heroes Channel (formerly Military Channel).

Makes me more glad that I'm a cord-cutter. I remember reading in Bourdain's book "Raw" how he felt pushed out of Food Network (they wanted him to stop going to international locales and focus instead on American cities) and so he went to the Travel Network...which ended up getting bought by the same company that owns the Food Network, so he's now at CNN.

[Just Joe]

And I'm sure it's the same with things like history ("I'm smart, I watch the History Channel...").

I live with a professional historian.  I'm an amateur historian.   

If you get your history from the History Channel, you're getting a lot of bad information.

You mean the "Hitlery Channel"?

Its a shame all of our TV must come with reality TV and the American perspective ONLY. So many interesting things in the world and I'm so over the American TV perspective.

[BFGirl]

Thanks all for the tips on uses with language degrees, some we've looked at, others we haven't.  She actually takes multiple language classes but French is the one she has the most experience with.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Thanks all for the tips on uses with language degrees, some we've looked at, others we haven't.  She actually takes multiple language classes but French is the one she has the most experience with.

The interesting thing about language and humanities degrees is that there's not always demand for the work locally. A person has to be willing and able to relocate to areas where the degree is in demand. Sometimes it's as simple as moving to a big city, but I know folks who went overseas.

[Adventine]

Thanks all for the tips on uses with language degrees, some we've looked at, others we haven't.  She actually takes multiple language classes but French is the one she has the most experience with.

The interesting thing about language and humanities degrees is that there's not always demand for the work locally. A person has to be willing and able to relocate to areas where the degree is in demand. Sometimes it's as simple as moving to a big city, but I know folks who went overseas.

Yes, exactly right. It's all about being flexible enough to go where there is a market for your particular skillset. Some people get too comfortable or complacent with their idea of home.

[Fiscal_Hawk]

My daughter is majoring in French.  I've encouraged her to pair it with some business or tech classes.  Of course, I majored in English...

I don't think that a straight French or English or History degree is the worst thing in the world. The challenge they present is getting that first job. In that case, prior work experience and connections are of utmost importance. But after a year or two it doesn't hurt all that much.

I actually majored in French and minored in English literature. I was employed a month before my actual college graduation ceremony. It's been eight years since then, and the longest time I've been unemployed is right now (a grand total of two weeks). I live in a Third World country. And I'm still well on my way to FIRE.

It isn't the French major that's the problem. It's the person holding the degree.

This is a good point. I didn't intend to say French is a bad degree. However, when your life plans involve living in a small midwest town, that makes it a bit harder to find good employment. That being said, it did lead her to a job with the local university which has been good (40k + good benefits). Her issue isn't her degree at this point, it's her spending and complete inability to be fully independent because of that.

Her choice to major in French was because she liked French cuisine and culture. That lead to the 6 month stint (binge) in France where she racked up serious debt to experience France. However, she never wanted to leave her small town permanently and had no idea what that meant in terms of a career or future.

[BFGirl]

Thanks all for the tips on uses with language degrees, some we've looked at, others we haven't.  She actually takes multiple language classes but French is the one she has the most experience with.

The interesting thing about language and humanities degrees is that there's not always demand for the work locally. A person has to be willing and able to relocate to areas where the degree is in demand. Sometimes it's as simple as moving to a big city, but I know folks who went overseas.

I think she would be willing to relocate for a job, but we live in an area with 7 million people, so hopefully she can find local if she wants to stay here.

[AMandM]

Another possible job for a language major: working in the overseas office of a study-abroad program.

[mm1970]

Thanks all for the tips on uses with language degrees, some we've looked at, others we haven't.  She actually takes multiple language classes but French is the one she has the most experience with.

The interesting thing about language and humanities degrees is that there's not always demand for the work locally. A person has to be willing and able to relocate to areas where the degree is in demand. Sometimes it's as simple as moving to a big city, but I know folks who went overseas.

I've got a friend working for the government in Foreign Affairs. He and his family move around a lot.

[Adventine]

My daughter is majoring in French.  I've encouraged her to pair it with some business or tech classes.  Of course, I majored in English...

I don't think that a straight French or English or History degree is the worst thing in the world. The challenge they present is getting that first job. In that case, prior work experience and connections are of utmost importance. But after a year or two it doesn't hurt all that much.

I actually majored in French and minored in English literature. I was employed a month before my actual college graduation ceremony. It's been eight years since then, and the longest time I've been unemployed is right now (a grand total of two weeks). I live in a Third World country. And I'm still well on my way to FIRE.

It isn't the French major that's the problem. It's the person holding the degree.

This is a good point. I didn't intend to say French is a bad degree. However, when your life plans involve living in a small midwest town, that makes it a bit harder to find good employment. That being said, it did lead her to a job with the local university which has been good (40k + good benefits). Her issue isn't her degree at this point, it's her spending and complete inability to be fully independent because of that.

Her choice to major in French was because she liked French cuisine and culture. That lead to the 6 month stint (binge) in France where she racked up serious debt to experience France. However, she never wanted to leave her small town permanently and had no idea what that meant in terms of a career or future.

Thanks for clarifying. I agree, with a bit of an "exotic" (maybe a better world is unusual?) degree, she should be willing to expand her job search to well beyong her small town. Classic case of expectations clashing with reality.

[cheapass]

She's always saying, "Why not, you can afford it, you make more than us anyway."  Guess what, that means that you CAN'T afford it, not that I CAN.  Of course, I technically can, but the reason I can is cause I don't.

We should all spend every last dollar we have with the justification of "well, we can afford it!" And then when we're out of dollars we'll still have space on our credit cards to "afford" more things!

[Kitsune]

She's always saying, "Why not, you can afford it, you make more than us anyway."  Guess what, that means that you CAN'T afford it, not that I CAN.  Of course, I technically can, but the reason I can is cause I don't.

We should all spend every last dollar we have with the justification of "well, we can afford it!" And then when we're out of dollars we'll still have space on our credit cards to "afford" more things!

Also... what YOU can afford is up to YOU to decide, seeing as it's YOUR money. And not hers..

She doesn't get to spend other people's money because she thinks they can afford it, WTF.

[MrMoogle]

If you look at it from her view, it's pretty normal for a married couple to get their own room.  This might be her way of saying she wants time alone with her husband. 

[Kitsune]

If you look at it from her view, it's pretty normal for a married couple to get their own room.  This might be her way of saying she wants time alone with her husband.

Oh, sure. But there's a difference between agreeing to "trip to see mom, we'll go to X place, sleep in one hotel room, split the cost" and "trip to see mom, we'll go to X place with Y number of total people, need 2 hotel rooms so we'll each cover one".

There's nothing WRONG with wanting to spend a night with one's spouse. There IS something wrong with unilaterally deciding that you're gonna step out on what was supposed to be a shared bill (one single room, split) because you got a 'better' offer elsewhere, and leaving Person #2 stuck with the whole of the initially-agreed-to-be-split cost and expecting them to not be annoyed at all about it.

[MgoSam]

If you look at it from her view, it's pretty normal for a married couple to get their own room.  This might be her way of saying she wants time alone with her husband.

That may be, but to have your spouse coming without informing your sibling is a bit crass, especially when it necessitates an extra expense for that sibling.

Then again, I'm a planner and absolutely abhor having plans made only to change up, even if the new plans better suit my needs. Case in point, I'm going to the opera tomorrow night with a group of friends. Original plan was to meet at my house to carpool to dinner and then walk to the theater. Now everyone wants to just meet at the restaurant, which is better for me as I can visit my friend before going to the restaurant (he lives right there), but the irrational planner in me is unhappy at the last second change.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

She's always saying, "Why not, you can afford it, you make more than us anyway."  Guess what, that means that you CAN'T afford it, not that I CAN.  Of course, I technically can, but the reason I can is cause I don't.

We should all spend every last dollar we have with the justification of "well, we can afford it!" And then when we're out of dollars we'll still have space on our credit cards to "afford" more things!

Hmm, I think you've hit on something.

I do believe there are people who actually believe "afford" means "can find a way to beg, borrow, or steal enough to get"?

[Cressida]

Case in point, I'm going to the opera tomorrow night with a group of friends. Original plan was to meet at my house to carpool to dinner and then walk to the theater. Now everyone wants to just meet at the restaurant, which is better for me as I can visit my friend before going to the restaurant (he lives right there), but the irrational planner in me is unhappy at the last second change.

Totally off topic, but what's the opera? I'm a fan.  :)

[FIT_Goat]

I mentioned earlier in this thread about my father and his new $60k  truck.  It turns out it is the Ram ecodiesel 1500.  The model with all the bells and whistles and a toolbox in the bed.  I also think there was some negative equity from his previous truck rolled into it.  So he's getting about 25 mpg for his 200+ mile/day commute.  Still crazy.

Anyway, he helped me with my fence last weekend.  We were talking and he was talking about his new truck and why he loves his.  His GF pointed out that he used to complain about the length of the bed in his old truck, yet this new truck has an even shorter bed.  His reply to that was that this new truck was the Cadillac of trucks.  He's never going to haul anything in it!  If he has a big/messy job that needs to be done, he'll get a trailer and pull it behind the truck.  That way he will not get the new truck all beat up.

My father spent 60 grand on a truck that he intends to never use as a truck!  I don't even know where to begin.

Edit:  I know I am perseverating on this topic.  It's probably because it strikes close to home.  I really wanted a truck about two years ago.   Just a small one, a beater.  I had a $900 pickup when I was in high-school and I loved it.  Of course, I didn't really haul much in it.  I just felt "manly" driving my truck.  I spent some time looking at trucks and comparing them to my current $0/month payment.  Nothing looks good when you compare it to something that's paid off and still runs fine.  So, I avoided that purchase.  I guess, I can see myself in my father's shoes with just a minor shift in earlier decisions.  Maybe not as big of a truck, or nearly as expensive, but still a truck that would barely (if ever) get used as it actually deserves.

[Gerard]

Edit:  I know I am perseverating on this topic. 

As a random internet stranger, I hereby give you permission to perseverate on this issue. That truck has symbolic value well beyond its actual shortcomings or cost. It's the you that you've saved yourself from by having your shit together.

[Zoot]

Edit:  I know I am perseverating on this topic.

Today I learned the word perseverate.  Thanks for the vocab boost!  :)

[Just Joe]

Relative complains about tight money occasionally. Borrows from retired parents occasionally, pays them back I'm sure.

Has good 6 (?) year old car. Job hops a little leaving job with benefits and pension and lands at an auto dealership job several years later. Sells car. Buys newish expensive SUV. Now under a year later sells SUV and buys a more expensive something. A big gas saver. Of course gas is only $2 per gallon here. As often as they change up cars, it won't matter if gas goes up.

Brags to FB that the coworker salesman (their new friend) did them a favor...

All I can think of are the ways dealers can use creative financing to make the impossible happen. This person prob makes $35K/yr?

Also - can't move on from damaged marriage b/c the two spouses can't afford to live apart... Both have car payments and have had irregular employment...

I hope the best for them... Here is the foot, here is a gun. FIRE!

[Sofa King]

Also - can't move on from damaged marriage b/c the two spouses can't afford to live apart... Both have car payments and have had irregular employment...

I know several couples that live like this. They don't even like each other (and they have publicly said so).  Talk about growing old and full of resent.  They should choose happiness NOW. The money side of it will work out eventually even if it means a changed lifestyle.   

[paddedhat]

Also - can't move on from damaged marriage b/c the two spouses can't afford to live apart... Both have car payments and have had irregular employment...

I know several couples that live like this. They don't even like each other (and they have publicly said so).  Talk about growing old and full of resent.  They should choose happiness NOW. The money side of it will work out eventually even if it means a changed lifestyle.   

I can attest to that. My grandmother in law was impossible to live with, and had an unhappy marriage. After decades she had a blowout argument with her husband, and they split up. The never spoke in the following 30+ years until his death, and she refused to give him a divorce. Sounds like he went on to live a pretty good life. He and his girlfriend regularly traveled the world. When the girlfriend contacted us, to report of a small unclaimed inheritance, the intermediary reported that she was a fascinating, very elderly woman, who was living out her days in a home filled with art and furnishings they had collected around the globe. Guess granny really showed him, LOL.  Her daughter, my MIL, was a nasty bitch. She stayed married, very unhappily, to a great guy, who could never leave. Got to be a good Catholic, ya' know?  He died very early, mid-fifties, and in his final weeks, while wracked with cancer, he was begging his daughter to help him move to an apartment so he could have some peace.  Yea, the world is a F'ed up place. People waste lifetimes together for all kinds of reasons, but money is probable the worst one.

[cheapass]

Had a gem over the weekend. Not a "relative" but close enough.

Traveled 3 hours to see a friend of mine and I borrowed my parents' Prius for a couple of reasons - 1) wanted to leave our sedan with the wife in case she had to go out with our baby 2) our scion is high mileage and not a great highway driver and 3) Prius gets much better gas mileage.

Anyway, despite my best attempts I was unable to avoid his wife the entire time we were there. The topic came up of why I was driving my parents car so I mentioned I wanted to leave the larger vehicle for transporting the baby. "You know what you need to do? Stop being such a cheapass and upgrade your cars!" "Yeah, well, it's pretty awesome not having a car payment!" That was met with a scowl.

She is unemployed, bought financed a brand new Fiat recently for her 1 hour commute and quit the job after 2 weeks because she didn't like the commute. Kept the Fiat. Spends money like water, bitches about bills, etc. Doesn't stop her from giving financial advice though!

[paddedhat]

Had a gem over the weekend. Not a "relative" but close enough.

The irony of you arriving in a Prius, a car with legendary reliability and low operating costs,  and getting a lecture from somebody dumb enough to by a Fiat, is priceless. Unless you live under a rock, and chose to avoid the intake of any automotive related information, it's pretty hard to avoid the common knowledge that they are one of the worst quality products available in North America at the moment, LOL. Hopefully she has other valuable information, investing advice, homebuying knowledge, etc.... for you? Sounds like a case study in what NOT to do.

[Drifterrider]

"Why not, you can afford it, you make more than us anyway."  Guess what, that means that you CAN'T afford it, not that I CAN.  Of course, I technically can, but the reason I can is cause I don't.

I'm stealing your line and not giving you credit.  Are we related?

[gimp]

His reply to that was that this new truck was the Cadillac of trucks.

Cadillac makes a truck. Based on the Escalade. Yep, take a luxury SUV, and cut off... a full bed? No, just one row to make a tiny tiny bed. The bro-est of brodozers.



You could probably make an entire thread about this one truck.