Relatives who just don't get it

[Playing with Fire UK]

Since we're being all antimustachian, I'll just post this here. To stay on topic, I'm sure my BIL would love it.


http://www.mancrates.com

You know when a young child has more fun with the wrapping than the present and it's adorable?

I'm not sure the same thing applies when it's a fully grown adult attacking a crate with a crowbar and the present cost $100.

But I want one.

I shall of course make my crate out of a leftover pallet, for free, or you know, use a leftover crate.

[With This Herring]

Since we're being all antimustachian, I'll just post this here. To stay on topic, I'm sure my BIL would love it.


http://www.mancrates.com

I look at the header image on the main page, and suddenly I hear in my head  someone belting out
"TOMMY USED TO WORK ON THE DO-O-OCKS...            Union's been on strike, he's down on his luck         It's tough... oooooooooo..... so tou-ough.........."
And, yes, I realize those are trains on either side, but still...

[AlanStache]

Since we're being all antimustachian, I'll just post this here. To stay on topic, I'm sure my BIL would love it.


http://www.mancrates.com

100$ for four pint glasses, some beer nuts and pistachios? damn.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Comments like these break my heart a little.  I LOVE Christmas, and I love giving my loved ones gifts - it is the one time of year I put a serious amount of effort into displaying how much I think about them throughout the year.  Of course, I am right there with you on the cash/gift cards, I too would be very frustrated to give or receive money. 

So... suggest to your family a new theme for a gift exchange: a "consumables Christmas" where any gift given must be able to be consumed (perhaps a selection of craft beer for your brother?  That fancy tea your mom has been wanting to try?  Soaps and smelly things from the farmers market for your sister?).

Or maybe "homemade gifts only"? You will be surprised at how creative people can be!  For two Christmases now my family has drawn names early in the year (September?) and because my brother's family had no money we agreed no PRICE limit.. instead the gifts had to be homemade.  So you have ONE person to focus on creating something for.  My 6 year old nephew made a drawing and clay ornament last year for my brother in law, it was adorable.  My (not-even-remotely-crafty) husband made a bat-symbol Christmas wreath for my sister.  My dad made a set of wooden photo frames to hold my wedding photos for me.  And so on.  It was incredible, and surprising!  None of us had ever done anything like that before and it was likely the best gift exchange we have ever done.  Our usual Christmases were exchanging walmart gifts (some of which from nearly a decade ago still remain collecting dust at the top of my closet right now actually) that had very little thought or effort put in, so this was a huge shift for us too.

Christmas isn't about everyone exchanging equivalent amounts of money... but frustration with modern trends doesn't mean giving up on traditions all together.  Just because the rest of the population is consumerist suckas doesn't mean your only options are to join them or forgo it all together.

My mother in law feels much the same way you do, and that's perfectly fine. What she fails to recognize is that we live in a tiny house and we appreciate minimalism so every year she tries to get creative and find something special for us. It's the ultimate exercise in frustration because every year we have to tell her that "sry, no, doesn't fit in the house" and go trade it in at some store for a gift card.

Now the real problem begins, we now have a gift card for a store that sells stuff we don't need and don't want. So we wind up blowing it on something stupid just to get rid of it. One year we replaced our kitchen towels for no reason because the gift card had a due date.

Gifts like that put a tremendous burden on the receiver and cause huge amounts of stress.

Your idea of a consumerist christmas is much more to my personal liking. It's a nice excuse to buy a great wine for my parents and so on. But in the end that becomes a money trade as well.

Your homemade christmas sounds like the ultimate horror-movie to me. I build computer software and I don't like making creative crafty type stuff. My December would turn into panic, stress and depression if we went that way. But it's really cool that your family made it work.

In short I prefer christmas as a nice dinner with my family, preferably with some insanely great wines, and skip the gifts.

Yes to everything!

Soaps and smelly things are awful. An obligation to make  things can be awful, although we do actually make lots of canned items. We made jams and jellies this year. But I like gifting those informally, not as part of an obligatory event.

Easiest cheaporama gift that doesn't have to be smelly: homemade bath salts. You take Epsom salt and coarse sea salt (which you can get for less than $10 per pound depending on how you buy) and baking soda. Mix them in a ratio of 8:6:1 respectively, and stir it up.

If you want there to be a fragrance, add essential oil to the salt mix (I prefer synthetic versions for this) and stir thoroughly.

If you want there to be color, add a few drops of food coloring to a teaspoon of non-iodized table salt, let the salt absorb the food coloring, then add the colored salt to your salt mix and stir.

I like to repurpose empty bottles or jars that can't be used for canning. They look quite attractive filled with this stuff and then tied with a bit of ribbon and maybe a scrap of cloth or wrapping paper to cover the top.

[Joggernot]

Easiest cheaporama gift that doesn't have to be smelly: homemade bath salts. You take Epsom salt and coarse sea salt (which you can get for less than $10 per pound depending on how you buy) and baking soda. Mix them in a ratio of 8:6:1 respectively, and stir it up.

If you want there to be a fragrance, add essential oil to the salt mix (I prefer synthetic versions for this) and stir thoroughly.

If you want there to be color, add a few drops of food coloring to a teaspoon of non-iodized table salt, let the salt absorb the food coloring, then add the colored salt to your salt mix and stir.

I like to repurpose empty bottles or jars that can't be used for canning. They look quite attractive filled with this stuff and then tied with a bit of ribbon and maybe a scrap of cloth or wrapping paper to cover the top.

For the instructions, how much to use for each bath?

[Playing with Fire UK]

Since we're being all antimustachian, I'll just post this here. To stay on topic, I'm sure my BIL would love it.
http://www.mancrates.com

100$ for four pint glasses, some beer nuts and pistachios? damn.

But they come in a crate! That changes everything.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Easiest cheaporama gift that doesn't have to be smelly: homemade bath salts. You take Epsom salt and coarse sea salt (which you can get for less than $10 per pound depending on how you buy) and baking soda. Mix them in a ratio of 8:6:1 respectively, and stir it up.

If you want there to be a fragrance, add essential oil to the salt mix (I prefer synthetic versions for this) and stir thoroughly.

If you want there to be color, add a few drops of food coloring to a teaspoon of non-iodized table salt, let the salt absorb the food coloring, then add the colored salt to your salt mix and stir.

I like to repurpose empty bottles or jars that can't be used for canning. They look quite attractive filled with this stuff and then tied with a bit of ribbon and maybe a scrap of cloth or wrapping paper to cover the top.

For the instructions, how much to use for each bath?

Foot bath: a fistful or so, maybe a tablespoon. Tub bath: about 1/4 to 1/2 cup or a generous cupped handful.

Edited to add... even a kindergarten-aged kid can make and distribute these.

[Dollar Slice]

You know when a young child has more fun with the wrapping than the present and it's adorable?

I'm not sure the same thing applies when it's a fully grown adult attacking a crate with a crowbar and the present cost $100.

But I want one.

I shall of course make my crate out of a leftover pallet, for free, or you know, use a leftover crate.

I went to a wedding last year with a group of friends all traveling from out of town - we'd decided to go in on a group gift where we'd all pick out a fancy whiskey/bourbon/rye/scotch/etc. and bundle them all together. We ended up getting a spare wooden wine box/crate from the liquor store to carry them in, and one of my friends had the bright idea of picking up a hammer and nails and nailing it shut, and presenting it to the groom with the hammer to pry it open. We got a few strange looks but it was definitely the most memorable gift, everyone had to watch him opening it... they painted their wedding date on the hammer's handle and refer to it as their "wedding hammer." :-)

[TheGrimSqueaker]

You know when a young child has more fun with the wrapping than the present and it's adorable?

I'm not sure the same thing applies when it's a fully grown adult attacking a crate with a crowbar and the present cost $100.

But I want one.

I shall of course make my crate out of a leftover pallet, for free, or you know, use a leftover crate.

I went to a wedding last year with a group of friends all traveling from out of town - we'd decided to go in on a group gift where we'd all pick out a fancy whiskey/bourbon/rye/scotch/etc. and bundle them all together. We ended up getting a spare wooden wine box/crate from the liquor store to carry them in, and one of my friends had the bright idea of picking up a hammer and nails and nailing it shut, and presenting it to the groom with the hammer to pry it open. We got a few strange looks but it was definitely the most memorable gift, everyone had to watch him opening it... they painted their wedding date on the hammer's handle and refer to it as their "wedding hammer." :-)

A good hammer can last for years. There's also probably a joke in there about getting the couple hammered, given that your gift was a liquid offering.

[mtn]

You know when a young child has more fun with the wrapping than the present and it's adorable?

I'm not sure the same thing applies when it's a fully grown adult attacking a crate with a crowbar and the present cost $100.

But I want one.

I shall of course make my crate out of a leftover pallet, for free, or you know, use a leftover crate.

I went to a wedding last year with a group of friends all traveling from out of town - we'd decided to go in on a group gift where we'd all pick out a fancy whiskey/bourbon/rye/scotch/etc. and bundle them all together. We ended up getting a spare wooden wine box/crate from the liquor store to carry them in, and one of my friends had the bright idea of picking up a hammer and nails and nailing it shut, and presenting it to the groom with the hammer to pry it open. We got a few strange looks but it was definitely the most memorable gift, everyone had to watch him opening it... they painted their wedding date on the hammer's handle and refer to it as their "wedding hammer." :-)

A good hammer can last for years. There's also probably a joke in there about getting the couple hammered, given that your gift was a liquid offering.

When I see a good quality hammer at a garage or estate sale for $1 or less, I can't help but grab it. I must have about 8 hammers at home. I should probably start putting them on ebay.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

You know when a young child has more fun with the wrapping than the present and it's adorable?

I'm not sure the same thing applies when it's a fully grown adult attacking a crate with a crowbar and the present cost $100.

But I want one.

I shall of course make my crate out of a leftover pallet, for free, or you know, use a leftover crate.

I went to a wedding last year with a group of friends all traveling from out of town - we'd decided to go in on a group gift where we'd all pick out a fancy whiskey/bourbon/rye/scotch/etc. and bundle them all together. We ended up getting a spare wooden wine box/crate from the liquor store to carry them in, and one of my friends had the bright idea of picking up a hammer and nails and nailing it shut, and presenting it to the groom with the hammer to pry it open. We got a few strange looks but it was definitely the most memorable gift, everyone had to watch him opening it... they painted their wedding date on the hammer's handle and refer to it as their "wedding hammer." :-)

A good hammer can last for years. There's also probably a joke in there about getting the couple hammered, given that your gift was a liquid offering.

When I see a good quality hammer at a garage or estate sale for $1 or less, I can't help but grab it. I must have about 8 hammers at home. I should probably start putting them on ebay.

Nah. Holiday gifts, if they're new.

[Just Joe]

I think my best hammer is over 90 years old.

[Playing with Fire UK]

... they painted their wedding date on the hammer's handle and refer to it as their "wedding hammer." :-)

I have a "Valentine hammer". It is a chunky sledge hammer with a single pink heart sticker on it.

[Metric Mouse]

I think my best hammer is over 90 years old.

They don't build them like that any more.  I've got a hammer just like that. The handle has been replaced four or five times, but the head only once.

[Kitsune]

I think my best hammer is over 90 years old.

They don't build them like that any more.  I've got a hammer just like that. The handle has been replaced four or five times, but the head only once.

Hammers, rolling pins, etc: I got all of them from my grandparents, who had had them since the 50s, and bought them used at the time. Swear to god, they're made way more solid than anything in store.

[mustachepungoeshere]

I think my best hammer is over 90 years old.

They don't build them like that any more.  I've got a hammer just like that. The handle has been replaced four or five times, but the head only once.

Grandfather's axe/Ship of Theseus...

[Metric Mouse]

I think my best hammer is over 90 years old.

They don't build them like that any more.  I've got a hammer just like that. The handle has been replaced four or five times, but the head only once.

Grandfather's axe/Ship of Theseus...

:D

[auntie_betty]

I think my best hammer is over 90 years old.

They don't build them like that any more.  I've got a hammer just like that. The handle has been replaced four or five times, but the head only once.

Grandfather's axe/Ship of Theseus...

Or for the Brit's amongst you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUl6PooveJE

[Playing with Fire UK]

I think my best hammer is over 90 years old.

They don't build them like that any more.  I've got a hammer just like that. The handle has been replaced four or five times, but the head only once.

Grandfather's axe/Ship of Theseus...

Or for the Brit's amongst you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUl6PooveJE

Thanks for finding that auntie_betty, it is the exact example I think of when I hear this type of conversation.

[mustachepungoeshere]

A relative on my husband's side just gave us a $30 lottery ticket for Christmas.

Scrawled on the envelope are the words: "BY ORDER OF [GIVER'S NAME], If the total winnings exceeds $99,999.99, the prize is to be shared between A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, + I."

(The letters were first-name initials for my husband's relatives.)

She needn't have given us anything. She usually gives us cash, but I would prefer nothing than have her waste money on lottery tickets. And while the odds of winning are zero, I think the "by order of" condition is bizarre and would love to know how enforceable it is.

Anyone?

[kayvent]

A relative on my husband's side just gave us a $30 lottery ticket for Christmas.

Scrawled on the envelope are the words: "BY ORDER OF [GIVER'S NAME], If the total winnings exceeds $99,999.99, the prize is to be shared between A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, + I."

(The letters were first-name initials for my husband's relatives.)

She needn't have given us anything. She usually gives us cash, but I would prefer nothing than have her waste money on lottery tickets. And while the odds of winning are zero, I think the "by order of" condition is bizarre and would love to know how enforceable it is.

Anyone?

I assume the other nine people got a 30$ ticket with the words "BY ORDER OF [GIVER'S NAME], If the total winnings exceeds $99,999.99, the prize is to be shared between A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, + mustachepungoeshere."

If this was the USA, I think the condition is enforceable. It is not so much them giving you the ticket as it is them saying their intents if they win. You have inherited the task of holding the ticket for them.

[AlanStache]

A relative on my husband's side just gave us a $30 lottery ticket for Christmas.

Scrawled on the envelope are the words: "BY ORDER OF [GIVER'S NAME], If the total winnings exceeds $99,999.99, the prize is to be shared between A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, + I."

(The letters were first-name initials for my husband's relatives.)

She needn't have given us anything. She usually gives us cash, but I would prefer nothing than have her waste money on lottery tickets. And while the odds of winning are zero, I think the "by order of" condition is bizarre and would love to know how enforceable it is.

Anyone?

I assume the other nine people got a 30$ ticket with the words "BY ORDER OF [GIVER'S NAME], If the total winnings exceeds $99,999.99, the prize is to be shared between A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, + mustachepungoeshere."

If this was the USA, I think the condition is enforceable. It is not so much them giving you the ticket as it is them saying their intents if they win. You have inherited the task of holding the ticket for them.

I am well acquainted with the works of Lionel Hutz and he would most likely site the case of "Finders vs Keepers" to say that all the cash would be yours.

[SwordGuy]

A relative on my husband's side just gave us a $30 lottery ticket for Christmas.

Scrawled on the envelope are the words: "BY ORDER OF [GIVER'S NAME], If the total winnings exceeds $99,999.99, the prize is to be shared between A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, + I."

(The letters were first-name initials for my husband's relatives.)

She needn't have given us anything. She usually gives us cash, but I would prefer nothing than have her waste money on lottery tickets. And while the odds of winning are zero, I think the "by order of" condition is bizarre and would love to know how enforceable it is.

Anyone?

Didn't say "equally shared", it said "shared".  Hey guys, here's a $10 each.  I'll keep the rest.   It's even better if your relatives are rabid Trump supporters.  Then you can explain that's how the 1% take care of folks.  :)

Now, I wouldn't do that to my family, friends, or co-workers.   (Well, I do have a lot of Trump supporter co-workers, so maybe them. :) )

[Linea_Norway]

A relative on my husband's side just gave us a $30 lottery ticket for Christmas.

Scrawled on the envelope are the words: "BY ORDER OF [GIVER'S NAME], If the total winnings exceeds $99,999.99, the prize is to be shared between A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, + I."

(The letters were first-name initials for my husband's relatives.)

She needn't have given us anything. She usually gives us cash, but I would prefer nothing than have her waste money on lottery tickets. And while the odds of winning are zero, I think the "by order of" condition is bizarre and would love to know how enforceable it is.

Anyone?

I wouldn't invest into a lottery ticket myself, as it on average gives a bad return of investment, but getting a ticket as a present should be allright. Presents are only a bonus and don't need to be useful. That she wants to share the potential price only shows that she really dreams of winning the lottery herself. It is a bit strange to give a gift with a condition, but at least she is clear about it. I wouldn't be provoked by it.

[Playing with Fire UK]

A relative on my husband's side just gave us a $30 lottery ticket for Christmas.

Scrawled on the envelope are the words: "BY ORDER OF [GIVER'S NAME], If the total winnings exceeds $99,999.99, the prize is to be shared between A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, + I."

(The letters were first-name initials for my husband's relatives.)

She needn't have given us anything. She usually gives us cash, but I would prefer nothing than have her waste money on lottery tickets. And while the odds of winning are zero, I think the "by order of" condition is bizarre and would love to know how enforceable it is.

Anyone?

I wouldn't invest into a lottery ticket myself, as it on average gives a bad return of investment, but getting a ticket as a present should be allright. Presents are only a bonus and don't need to be useful. That she wants to share the potential price only shows that she really dreams of winning the lottery herself. It is a bit strange to give a gift with a condition, but at least she is clear about it. I wouldn't be provoked by it.

A THIRTY DOLLAR lottery ticket?!?! Thirty dollars? Is this a common thing? Is it thirty lines for a $1 draw? I find this abhorrent.

Linda, although I agree that presents are a bonus, I think this is a poor choice of gift for many people. I'm really opposed to lotteries that intentionally target poor or vulnerable people with dreams of riches. If someone gave me a shredded $20 bill it would bother me because I'd see the waste. The same if someone made a charitable donation in my name to a cause that was opposite to my beliefs. 

[marty998]

A relative on my husband's side just gave us a $30 lottery ticket for Christmas.

Scrawled on the envelope are the words: "BY ORDER OF [GIVER'S NAME], If the total winnings exceeds $99,999.99, the prize is to be shared between A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, + I."

(The letters were first-name initials for my husband's relatives.)

She needn't have given us anything. She usually gives us cash, but I would prefer nothing than have her waste money on lottery tickets. And while the odds of winning are zero, I think the "by order of" condition is bizarre and would love to know how enforceable it is.

Anyone?

Well. If all of you guys responding don't want it I'll have it.

Don't come crying to me when I start yelling CHA CHING!

[mustachepungoeshere]

A relative on my husband's side just gave us a $30 lottery ticket for Christmas.

Scrawled on the envelope are the words: "BY ORDER OF [GIVER'S NAME], If the total winnings exceeds $99,999.99, the prize is to be shared between A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, + I."

(The letters were first-name initials for my husband's relatives.)

She needn't have given us anything. She usually gives us cash, but I would prefer nothing than have her waste money on lottery tickets. And while the odds of winning are zero, I think the "by order of" condition is bizarre and would love to know how enforceable it is.

Anyone?

Well. If all of you guys responding don't want it I'll have it.

Don't come crying to me when I start yelling CHA CHING!

You know where I live!

[Playing with Fire UK]

A relative on my husband's side just gave us a $30 lottery ticket for Christmas.

Scrawled on the envelope are the words: "BY ORDER OF [GIVER'S NAME], If the total winnings exceeds $99,999.99, the prize is to be shared between A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, + I."

(The letters were first-name initials for my husband's relatives.)

She needn't have given us anything. She usually gives us cash, but I would prefer nothing than have her waste money on lottery tickets. And while the odds of winning are zero, I think the "by order of" condition is bizarre and would love to know how enforceable it is.

Anyone?

Well. If all of you guys responding don't want it I'll have it.

Don't come crying to me when I start yelling CHA CHING!

I can live with that given the odds.

[barbaz]

I think my best hammer is over 90 years old.

They don't build them like that any more.  I've got a hammer just like that. The handle has been replaced four or five times, but the head only once.

Grandfather's axe/Ship of Theseus...

Or for the Brit's amongst you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUl6PooveJE

Or for fans of horror-comedy, the prologue of John Dies At The End

[dandarc]

A THIRTY DOLLAR lottery ticket?!?! Thirty dollars? Is this a common thing? Is it thirty lines for a $1 draw? I find this abhorrent.

Probably one of the high-dollar scratch offs.  Better odds for a big prize, but then it costs a lot more to play.

Like these: http://www.flalottery.com/scratch-offs?amount=25

[jinga nation]

I think my best hammer is over 90 years old.

They don't build them like that any more.  I've got a hammer just like that. The handle has been replaced four or five times, but the head only once.

Grandfather's axe/Ship of Theseus...

Or for the Brit's amongst you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUl6PooveJE

Trigger. Oh boy. I love Only Fools and Horses. And Del Boy.

[slugline]

A THIRTY DOLLAR lottery ticket?!?! Thirty dollars? Is this a common thing? Is it thirty lines for a $1 draw? I find this abhorrent.

The Texas Lottery sells $50 scratch-off tickets. Yeah, I don't get it either.

[accountingteacher]

Mom sent out a family-wide mass text concerning what she wants for Christmas. I have four words for you: holiday themed cloth napkins. When I saw this text, it made me a bit depressed. The woman is in her late forties and has not yet put a single penny toward retirement. When I was on the phone with her later that day, I asked her why this was what she wanted for Christmas. She said in reply: "I'm not a minimalist," and "I thought they would be nice to have." That reasoning wouldn't haunt me at all if her choices only affected her. But that is not (and never has been) the case. I am going to be the one who has to decide whether or not to work for longer in order to save enough money to ensure she doesn't starve in her final years. I am going to have to live with the guilt or burden that follows that decision. She thinks that money is for playing, and that buying stuff is fun and exciting. But her bad money habits have already affected my life, and will continue to do so if she does not change. I apologize for the sad vibe. That's just how I'm feeling about this.

Being the responsible one sucks.  Years ago, my BIL and SIL called me selfish and hateful when I wouldn't agree to co-buy broke FIL's house with them.  (My reason is that I wouldn't make a large investment with people who were dumb enough to buy a $600,000 house with $80,000 down and 1 income.)  This year, FIL needed dentures ($2,800) for the first time and cheap, selfish me paid for them.  And no one seems to get that I saw this coming.

[kobo1d]

A THIRTY DOLLAR lottery ticket?!?! Thirty dollars? Is this a common thing? Is it thirty lines for a $1 draw? I find this abhorrent.

The Texas Lottery sells $50 scratch-off tickets. Yeah, I don't get it either.

Once I found a $50 worth of unscratched scratchers someone had dropped on the ground. They turned out to be worth...$0. Really, your chances of winning the lottery are not significantly changed by purchasing a ticket. Finding a winning ticket on the ground is just about as likely as winning with a purchased ticket. 

[mtn]

A THIRTY DOLLAR lottery ticket?!?! Thirty dollars? Is this a common thing? Is it thirty lines for a $1 draw? I find this abhorrent.

The Texas Lottery sells $50 scratch-off tickets. Yeah, I don't get it either.

Once I found a $50 worth of unscratched scratchers someone had dropped on the ground. They turned out to be worth...$0. Really, your chances of winning the lottery are not significantly changed by purchasing a ticket. Finding a winning ticket on the ground is just about as likely as winning with a purchased ticket.

Actually, your chances increased infinitely just by buying a ticket since you now have a non-zero chance of winning. There, I used math (calculus even) to justify a lotto purchase! Too bad that as soon as you go back to basic probability, it becomes unjustified once again.

[kobo1d]

Actually, your chances increased infinitely just by buying a ticket since you now have a non-zero chance of winning. There, I used math (calculus even) to justify a lotto purchase! Too bad that as soon as you go back to basic probability, it becomes unjustified once again.

But my point was you have a non-zero chance of finding a ticket on the ground, so you always have that non-zero chance of winning.

[I'm a red panda]

Actually, your chances increased infinitely just by buying a ticket since you now have a non-zero chance of winning. There, I used math (calculus even) to justify a lotto purchase! Too bad that as soon as you go back to basic probability, it becomes unjustified once again.

I think almost all rounding would say that you still have a zero chance.

I wonder what the expected value of a $50 scratch off ticket is compared to a $1 scratch off ticket...

[mtn]

Actually, your chances increased infinitely just by buying a ticket since you now have a non-zero chance of winning. There, I used math (calculus even) to justify a lotto purchase! Too bad that as soon as you go back to basic probability, it becomes unjustified once again.

I think almost all rounding would say that you still have a zero chance.

I wonder what the expected value of a $50 scratch off ticket is compared to a $1 scratch off ticket...

The rounding doesn't matter if you're not looking at probability. All I'm saying is that from a mathematical point of view, because not having a ticket is literally zero chance of winning, and having a ticket is more than zero chance of winning, you're infinitely more likely to win with a ticket than without. Infinity*.00000000000000000000000001 though still returns to about zero--but it is not zero.

Scratch off tickets do actually have a non-zero expected value, and the more expensive ones have a correspondingly higher value. But it is usually something like a 1/4 chance to break even, so you'll just lose it a lot faster with the expensive tickets.

[dandarc]

Actually, your chances increased infinitely just by buying a ticket since you now have a non-zero chance of winning. There, I used math (calculus even) to justify a lotto purchase! Too bad that as soon as you go back to basic probability, it becomes unjustified once again.

I think almost all rounding would say that you still have a zero chance.

I wonder what the expected value of a $50 scratch off ticket is compared to a $1 scratch off ticket...

Don't have time to do this for all games, but on one particular $1 game in Florida, the EV is $0.625.  $25 scratch ticket EV is $19.87.  Based on published odds.  So 63% payout for the $1 vs 79% payout on the $25.  Odds on these games are publicly available.  Of course on the $25 game, the top prize of $10M is payable as an annuity, so this over-states that.  Valuing that at $6M only takes a couple of percent off the payout percentage though.  Even valuing top prize at $0, you've got a nearly 75% payout on the more expensive game.

Still bad bets, but the more expensive tickets aren't quite as bad a bet, typically.

[MgoSam]

Still bad bets, but the more expensive tickets aren't quite as bad a bet, typically.

Yup, this is why it's been nearly a decade since I've wagered a cent in casinos.

[LeRainDrop]

Actually, your chances increased infinitely just by buying a ticket since you now have a non-zero chance of winning. There, I used math (calculus even) to justify a lotto purchase! Too bad that as soon as you go back to basic probability, it becomes unjustified once again.

I think almost all rounding would say that you still have a zero chance.

I wonder what the expected value of a $50 scratch off ticket is compared to a $1 scratch off ticket...

Don't have time to do this for all games, but on one particular $1 game in Florida, the EV is $0.625.  $25 scratch ticket EV is $19.87.  Based on published odds.  So 63% payout for the $1 vs 79% payout on the $25.  Odds on these games are publicly available.  Of course on the $25 game, the top prize of $10M is payable as an annuity, so this over-states that.  Valuing that at $6M only takes a couple of percent off the payout percentage though.  Even valuing top prize at $0, you've got a nearly 75% payout on the more expensive game.

Still bad bets, but the more expensive tickets aren't quite as bad a bet, typically.

My second cousin has been turning a small profit on Florida lottery scratch tickets because he will unabashedly fish discarded tickets out of trash bins and the grocery stores next to the customer service desks.  Apparently, you'd be surprised how many people throw away winning tickets, unscratched tickets, and tickets that still have a chance in the "second-chance drawing."  Obviously, this a a very small profit, but he's retired and finds this fun.

[dandarc]

Actually, your chances increased infinitely just by buying a ticket since you now have a non-zero chance of winning. There, I used math (calculus even) to justify a lotto purchase! Too bad that as soon as you go back to basic probability, it becomes unjustified once again.

I think almost all rounding would say that you still have a zero chance.

I wonder what the expected value of a $50 scratch off ticket is compared to a $1 scratch off ticket...

Don't have time to do this for all games, but on one particular $1 game in Florida, the EV is $0.625.  $25 scratch ticket EV is $19.87.  Based on published odds.  So 63% payout for the $1 vs 79% payout on the $25.  Odds on these games are publicly available.  Of course on the $25 game, the top prize of $10M is payable as an annuity, so this over-states that.  Valuing that at $6M only takes a couple of percent off the payout percentage though.  Even valuing top prize at $0, you've got a nearly 75% payout on the more expensive game.

Still bad bets, but the more expensive tickets aren't quite as bad a bet, typically.

My second cousin has been turning a small profit on Florida lottery scratch tickets because he will unabashedly fish discarded tickets out of trash bins and the grocery stores next to the customer service desks.  Apparently, you'd be surprised how many people throw away winning tickets, unscratched tickets, and tickets that still have a chance in the "second-chance drawing."  Obviously, this a a very small profit, but he's retired and finds this fun.

Yeah - if you get your tickets for free, then you can make money playing the lottery.

[mm1970]

Mom sent out a family-wide mass text concerning what she wants for Christmas. I have four words for you: holiday themed cloth napkins. When I saw this text, it made me a bit depressed. The woman is in her late forties and has not yet put a single penny toward retirement. When I was on the phone with her later that day, I asked her why this was what she wanted for Christmas. She said in reply: "I'm not a minimalist," and "I thought they would be nice to have." That reasoning wouldn't haunt me at all if her choices only affected her. But that is not (and never has been) the case. I am going to be the one who has to decide whether or not to work for longer in order to save enough money to ensure she doesn't starve in her final years. I am going to have to live with the guilt or burden that follows that decision. She thinks that money is for playing, and that buying stuff is fun and exciting. But her bad money habits have already affected my life, and will continue to do so if she does not change. I apologize for the sad vibe. That's just how I'm feeling about this.

Being the responsible one sucks.  Years ago, my BIL and SIL called me selfish and hateful when I wouldn't agree to co-buy broke FIL's house with them.  (My reason is that I wouldn't make a large investment with people who were dumb enough to buy a $600,000 house with $80,000 down and 1 income.)  This year, FIL needed dentures ($2,800) for the first time and cheap, selfish me paid for them.  And no one seems to get that I saw this coming.

Oh boy.  And here I am, mid to late-forties, thinking "I could use some new cloth napkins, because mine are falling apart", but Holiday ones??

[Playing with Fire UK]

A THIRTY DOLLAR lottery ticket?!?! Thirty dollars? Is this a common thing? Is it thirty lines for a $1 draw? I find this abhorrent.

The Texas Lottery sells $50 scratch-off tickets. Yeah, I don't get it either.

Fifty fucking dollars on a lottery ticket. And people buy these. I would now like a brain enema so that I can forget this.

[ender]

A THIRTY DOLLAR lottery ticket?!?! Thirty dollars? Is this a common thing? Is it thirty lines for a $1 draw? I find this abhorrent.

The Texas Lottery sells $50 scratch-off tickets. Yeah, I don't get it either.

Fifty fucking dollars on a lottery ticket. And people buy these. I would now like a brain enema so that I can forget this.

The government should convert the lottery into a pseudo 401k system, where every time people buy tickets it is deposited into an account where it gets invested and is only available at age 65.

This way, everyone wins when they play!

[Playing with Fire UK]

A THIRTY DOLLAR lottery ticket?!?! Thirty dollars? Is this a common thing? Is it thirty lines for a $1 draw? I find this abhorrent.

The Texas Lottery sells $50 scratch-off tickets. Yeah, I don't get it either.

Fifty fucking dollars on a lottery ticket. And people buy these. I would now like a brain enema so that I can forget this.

The government should convert the lottery into a pseudo 401k system, where every time people buy tickets it is deposited into an account where it gets invested and is only available at age 65.

This way, everyone wins when they play!

I would like that.

[AlanStache]

A THIRTY DOLLAR lottery ticket?!?! Thirty dollars? Is this a common thing? Is it thirty lines for a $1 draw? I find this abhorrent.

The Texas Lottery sells $50 scratch-off tickets. Yeah, I don't get it either.

Fifty fucking dollars on a lottery ticket. And people buy these. I would now like a brain enema so that I can forget this.

The government should convert the lottery into a pseudo 401k system, where every time people buy tickets it is deposited into an account where it gets invested and is only available at age 65.

This way, everyone wins when they play!

What is crazy is that people would not have faith in the govt or that they would get x% return per year BUT they will buy lottery tickets that TELL you they pay you 0.60$ for every 1.0$ you pay in.

Its like people think to them-self:
"Give me 0.60$ for every 1.00$ I give you, sure yes lets do that"
"Give me 1.07$ for ever 1.00$ I give you, no way that is a scam"

[Playing with Fire UK]

What is crazy is that people would not have faith in the govt or that they would get x% return per year BUT they will buy lottery tickets that TELL you they pay you 0.60$ for every 1.0$ you pay in.

Its like people think to them-self:
"Give me 0.60$ for every 1.00$ I give you, sure yes lets do that"
"Give me 1.07$ for ever 1.00$ I give you, no way that is a scam"

I think I need to revise my sales pitch. I'm doing this all wrong.

[Stachey]

The number of people who bitch endlessly about how much tax they have to pay and then turn around and spend ridiculous sums on lottery tickets. 
I wonder what percentage of their money they spend on lottery tickets.  I bet for many people it's a lot more than the tax they pay.

[Stachey]

But really came here to complain about relatives at Giftmas (and got distracted by all the lottery talk).
So relatives...AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
WTF?!  How is it possible for people to suck the fun out of making gingerbread houses?
Just when you think there is a safe activity that everyone can enjoy...No it doesn't happen. 
Unbelievable.