Relatives who just don't get it

[Metric Mouse]

The number of accountants who don't understand gross vs. net is frightening as well. And embarrassing since I am one.

Which one - an accountant, or one who doesn't understand gross vs. net? (Teasing!)

All undergraduate engineering students (from all engineering disciplines, to clarify) had to take Engineering Economics and Engineering Statistics classes. It was your basic econ and stats classes, except that all examples and assignments were engineering based. Time value of Money, Three and Six Sigma, etc. Fail and you can't continue in engineering unless you retake the class and pass.

This would have been so useful for my first corporate job! Is this a standard requirement? It wasn't available on my (British) course.

Right? This would be useful to almost everyone! I had friends at another university that had to take calculus for their business degrees; like, really?

[BlueHouse]

I wouldn't doubt that your friend is making at least doubt what he made when he was self employed, even if he strongly disagrees. Not only do you have the classic gross VS net misunderstanding,

Something about that bolded part strikes me cold -- that a small business operator is conflicted about net versus gross... okay.. but that it is CLASSIC (as in often seen?)  that is tragic.

Not so different from the number of w-2 employees who think they should be paid the same amount of money that they "bring in" to a company. Lack of understanding that a typical employee (in my profession) costs a company 1.3 to 3 times more than their salary. (Includes fringe, overhead, G&a).

[Playing with Fire UK]

I wouldn't doubt that your friend is making at least doubt what he made when he was self employed, even if he strongly disagrees. Not only do you have the classic gross VS net misunderstanding,

Something about that bolded part strikes me cold -- that a small business operator is conflicted about net versus gross... okay.. but that it is CLASSIC (as in often seen?)  that is tragic.

Not so different from the number of w-2 employees who think they should be paid the same amount of money that they "bring in" to a company. Lack of understanding that a typical employee (in my profession) costs a company 1.3 to 3 times more than their salary. (Includes fringe, overhead, G&a).

But all those people were there before I started, so I should be paid what I bring in because I'm a special snowflake. /s

[Goldielocks]

All undergraduate engineering students (from all engineering disciplines, to clarify) had to take Engineering Economics and Engineering Statistics classes. It was your basic econ and stats classes, except that all examples and assignments were engineering based. Time value of Money, Three and Six Sigma, etc. Fail and you can't continue in engineering unless you retake the class and pass.

This would have been so useful for my first corporate job! Is this a standard requirement? It wasn't available on my (British) course.

I think that most British engineering degrees are about 36 classes instead of 48, so maybe they had to cut somewhere?

[Playing with Fire UK]

All undergraduate engineering students (from all engineering disciplines, to clarify) had to take Engineering Economics and Engineering Statistics classes. It was your basic econ and stats classes, except that all examples and assignments were engineering based. Time value of Money, Three and Six Sigma, etc. Fail and you can't continue in engineering unless you retake the class and pass.

This would have been so useful for my first corporate job! Is this a standard requirement? It wasn't available on my (British) course.

I think that most British engineering degrees are about 36 classes instead of 48, so maybe they had to cut somewhere?

Each university picks their own format and class structure. A class isn't a standard unit of measure. I had four subjects in my first year, that was a full course load. A four year course is fairly standard. We don't base courses on another country's class structure.

[Goldielocks]

All undergraduate engineering students (from all engineering disciplines, to clarify) had to take Engineering Economics and Engineering Statistics classes. It was your basic econ and stats classes, except that all examples and assignments were engineering based. Time value of Money, Three and Six Sigma, etc. Fail and you can't continue in engineering unless you retake the class and pass.

This would have been so useful for my first corporate job! Is this a standard requirement? It wasn't available on my (British) course.

I think that most British engineering degrees are about 36 classes instead of 48, so maybe they had to cut somewhere?

Each university picks their own format and class structure. A class isn't a standard unit of measure. I had four subjects in my first year, that was a full course load. A four year course is fairly standard. We don't base courses on another country's class structure.

Ok, I was thinking more of the three years (UK) rather than four to five year programs (Canada)  so using a class count likely obscured what I was trying to say.

[Playing with Fire UK]

Ok, I was thinking more of the three years (UK) rather than four to five year programs (Canada)  so using a class count likely obscured what I was trying to say.

Gotcha, 3 year courses were the default a generation ago, but 4 years are more typical for engineering now (based on a survey of my colleagues and the courses I was looking at studying 15 years ago).

[Friar]

Ok, I was thinking more of the three years (UK) rather than four to five year programs (Canada)  so using a class count likely obscured what I was trying to say.

Gotcha, 3 year courses were the default a generation ago, but 4 years are more typical for engineering now (based on a survey of my colleagues and the courses I was looking at studying 15 years ago).

In my opinion this is caused by the fact more people are graduating from university each year. Having a bachelor's degree has become much more common so people are turning to master's degrees to help differentiate themselves from the rest of the populace.

It's quite common in Engineering for universities to offer undergraduate master's which are, like you mentioned, four year courses. In 2007 I was one of those who opted for this and about 25% of my year did the same.

[Cookie78]

I opened my first non-tax-advantaged investment account yesterday!

I was excited and told my dad about it. He asked what it was and I started to explain briefly about TFSA and RRSP accounts being maxed, so... but he said he didn't know anything about any of that stuff.

On the positive side, I'm not too worried about his future. He has a lot of land that he used to farm, and now rents out to other farmers which covers his expenses. Different strokes.

[mtn]

Not money related (they're all pretty frugal with decent, and often multiple incomes--if not frugal, then high income spending still within their means), but Thanksgiving and the quasi-political conversations.

No, Aunt, the woman in your story is not on Social Security, she's on disability. And in any case, someone who has Cerebral Palsy and no family is not the drain on the system I'm worried about.

No, same Aunt, that story you ready in the Boston Globe about someone getting a government pension wasn't true--because you didn't read it in the Boston Globe, you read it in the Boston Tribune, which is a fake news site.

Different Aunt: You keep pulling up things about smoking maryjane being bad while pregnant. No one is denying that, but that isn't the conversation. You also shouldn't have caffeine, or alcohol, or raw meat, or fish, or deli meat, or certain cheeses, or (should I go on?). At least make a sound argument; you have a Masters and you should be able to do that. What you're saying is like me saying that Hockey should be outlawed because if you get body checked while pregnant the child could die. No, you just shouldn't play hockey while pregnant. Not that hard.

[Kitsune]

Different Aunt: You keep pulling up things about smoking maryjane being bad while pregnant. No one is denying that, but that isn't the conversation. You also shouldn't have caffeine, or alcohol, or raw meat, or fish, or deli meat, or certain cheeses, or (should I go on?). At least make a sound argument; you have a Masters and you should be able to do that. What you're saying is like me saying that Hockey should be outlawed because if you get body checked while pregnant the child could die. No, you just shouldn't play hockey while pregnant. Not that hard.

Because I HAVE to nitpick... ;)

Large amounts of caffeine is not recommended while pregant (typically more than a cup or 2 a day) as there seems to be a corrolation between high caffeine usage and high miscarriage rates (NOT proven causation, corrolation - note the difference... and you know what else is corrolated to both higher miscarriage rates AND higher caffeine consumption? Maternal age. Just sayin'). Alcohol... is something you shouldn't have, but one knows what quantity is actually harmful and no ethics committee EVER would approve that study - typically speaking, a few sips does no harm and a half-bottle does, use sense, etc (or, in other words: 35 years ago, French women were told 'no more than a glass a day' and American women were told 'none at all, ever', and I don't think we can make the argument that the current generation of French people is worst off for it. Apply connon sense as needed.). Certain cheeses and deli meats are forbidden because of fear of listeria (because pregnant women are more vulnerable AND it increases miscarriage rates) but the last few wide-spread listeria outbreaks in America were in packaged salad greens and vegetable, and the absolute risks of getting listeria are still very low. Etc.

Which is to say: there's a difference between 'increased risk' and 'absolute risk', and there's a difference between 'generally recommended because it's easy to make general recommendations into public guidelines' and 'actually evaluated risks for this specific person and recommended in her situation'.

Which is also to say that I've had it up to HERE with people lecturing pregnant women as if they suddenly lose all autonomy by getting knocked up.

[mtn]

Different Aunt: You keep pulling up things about smoking maryjane being bad while pregnant. No one is denying that, but that isn't the conversation. You also shouldn't have caffeine, or alcohol, or raw meat, or fish, or deli meat, or certain cheeses, or (should I go on?). At least make a sound argument; you have a Masters and you should be able to do that. What you're saying is like me saying that Hockey should be outlawed because if you get body checked while pregnant the child could die. No, you just shouldn't play hockey while pregnant. Not that hard.

Because I HAVE to nitpick... ;)

Large amounts of caffeine is not recommended while pregant (typically more than a cup or 2 a day) as there seems to be a corrolation between high caffeine usage and high miscarriage rates (NOT proven causation, corrolation - note the difference... and you know what else is corrolated to both higher miscarriage rates AND higher caffeine consumption? Maternal age. Just sayin'). Alcohol... is something you shouldn't have, but one knows what quantity is actually harmful and no ethics committee EVER would approve that study - typically speaking, a few sips does no harm and a half-bottle does, use sense, etc (or, in other words: 35 years ago, French women were told 'no more than a glass a day' and American women were told 'none at all, ever', and I don't think we can make the argument that the current generation of French people is worst off for it. Apply connon sense as needed.). Certain cheeses and deli meats are forbidden because of fear of listeria (because pregnant women are more vulnerable AND it increases miscarriage rates) but the last few wide-spread listeria outbreaks in America were in packaged salad greens and vegetable, and the absolute risks of getting listeria are still very low. Etc.

Which is to say: there's a difference between 'increased risk' and 'absolute risk', and there's a difference between 'generally recommended because it's easy to make general recommendations into public guidelines' and 'actually evaluated risks for this specific person and recommended in her situation'.

Which is also to say that I've had it up to HERE with people lecturing pregnant women as if they suddenly lose all autonomy by getting knocked up.

Obviously, my post was not a pregnancy advice post--just some general guidelines.

[Kitsune]

Different Aunt: You keep pulling up things about smoking maryjane being bad while pregnant. No one is denying that, but that isn't the conversation. You also shouldn't have caffeine, or alcohol, or raw meat, or fish, or deli meat, or certain cheeses, or (should I go on?). At least make a sound argument; you have a Masters and you should be able to do that. What you're saying is like me saying that Hockey should be outlawed because if you get body checked while pregnant the child could die. No, you just shouldn't play hockey while pregnant. Not that hard.

Because I HAVE to nitpick... ;)

Large amounts of caffeine is not recommended while pregant (typically more than a cup or 2 a day) as there seems to be a corrolation between high caffeine usage and high miscarriage rates (NOT proven causation, corrolation - note the difference... and you know what else is corrolated to both higher miscarriage rates AND higher caffeine consumption? Maternal age. Just sayin'). Alcohol... is something you shouldn't have, but one knows what quantity is actually harmful and no ethics committee EVER would approve that study - typically speaking, a few sips does no harm and a half-bottle does, use sense, etc (or, in other words: 35 years ago, French women were told 'no more than a glass a day' and American women were told 'none at all, ever', and I don't think we can make the argument that the current generation of French people is worst off for it. Apply connon sense as needed.). Certain cheeses and deli meats are forbidden because of fear of listeria (because pregnant women are more vulnerable AND it increases miscarriage rates) but the last few wide-spread listeria outbreaks in America were in packaged salad greens and vegetable, and the absolute risks of getting listeria are still very low. Etc.

Which is to say: there's a difference between 'increased risk' and 'absolute risk', and there's a difference between 'generally recommended because it's easy to make general recommendations into public guidelines' and 'actually evaluated risks for this specific person and recommended in her situation'.

Which is also to say that I've had it up to HERE with people lecturing pregnant women as if they suddenly lose all autonomy by getting knocked up.

Obviously, my post was not a pregnancy advice post--just some general guidelines.

Yeah, I know, but I'm currently pregnant and my colleagues seem to take it as an invitation to give (shitty) advice on every single aspect of my life and I am a liiiiiiiiittle on edge about it right now.

If by "a little on edge" we mean "one missed breath from slapping someone".

And the next person who asks me about the state of my fucking CERVIX while at work is gonna get it. FYI.

[mtn]

Different Aunt: You keep pulling up things about smoking maryjane being bad while pregnant. No one is denying that, but that isn't the conversation. You also shouldn't have caffeine, or alcohol, or raw meat, or fish, or deli meat, or certain cheeses, or (should I go on?). At least make a sound argument; you have a Masters and you should be able to do that. What you're saying is like me saying that Hockey should be outlawed because if you get body checked while pregnant the child could die. No, you just shouldn't play hockey while pregnant. Not that hard.

Because I HAVE to nitpick... ;)

Large amounts of caffeine is not recommended while pregant (typically more than a cup or 2 a day) as there seems to be a corrolation between high caffeine usage and high miscarriage rates (NOT proven causation, corrolation - note the difference... and you know what else is corrolated to both higher miscarriage rates AND higher caffeine consumption? Maternal age. Just sayin'). Alcohol... is something you shouldn't have, but one knows what quantity is actually harmful and no ethics committee EVER would approve that study - typically speaking, a few sips does no harm and a half-bottle does, use sense, etc (or, in other words: 35 years ago, French women were told 'no more than a glass a day' and American women were told 'none at all, ever', and I don't think we can make the argument that the current generation of French people is worst off for it. Apply connon sense as needed.). Certain cheeses and deli meats are forbidden because of fear of listeria (because pregnant women are more vulnerable AND it increases miscarriage rates) but the last few wide-spread listeria outbreaks in America were in packaged salad greens and vegetable, and the absolute risks of getting listeria are still very low. Etc.

Which is to say: there's a difference between 'increased risk' and 'absolute risk', and there's a difference between 'generally recommended because it's easy to make general recommendations into public guidelines' and 'actually evaluated risks for this specific person and recommended in her situation'.

Which is also to say that I've had it up to HERE with people lecturing pregnant women as if they suddenly lose all autonomy by getting knocked up.

Obviously, my post was not a pregnancy advice post--just some general guidelines.

Yeah, I know, but I'm currently pregnant and my colleagues seem to take it as an invitation to give (shitty) advice on every single aspect of my life and I am a liiiiiiiiittle on edge about it right now.

If by "a little on edge" we mean "one missed breath from slapping someone".

And the next person who asks me about the state of my fucking CERVIX while at work is gonna get it. FYI.

So, what state is your fucking cervix in?

[Kitsune]

Different Aunt: You keep pulling up things about smoking maryjane being bad while pregnant. No one is denying that, but that isn't the conversation. You also shouldn't have caffeine, or alcohol, or raw meat, or fish, or deli meat, or certain cheeses, or (should I go on?). At least make a sound argument; you have a Masters and you should be able to do that. What you're saying is like me saying that Hockey should be outlawed because if you get body checked while pregnant the child could die. No, you just shouldn't play hockey while pregnant. Not that hard.

Because I HAVE to nitpick... ;)

Large amounts of caffeine is not recommended while pregant (typically more than a cup or 2 a day) as there seems to be a corrolation between high caffeine usage and high miscarriage rates (NOT proven causation, corrolation - note the difference... and you know what else is corrolated to both higher miscarriage rates AND higher caffeine consumption? Maternal age. Just sayin'). Alcohol... is something you shouldn't have, but one knows what quantity is actually harmful and no ethics committee EVER would approve that study - typically speaking, a few sips does no harm and a half-bottle does, use sense, etc (or, in other words: 35 years ago, French women were told 'no more than a glass a day' and American women were told 'none at all, ever', and I don't think we can make the argument that the current generation of French people is worst off for it. Apply connon sense as needed.). Certain cheeses and deli meats are forbidden because of fear of listeria (because pregnant women are more vulnerable AND it increases miscarriage rates) but the last few wide-spread listeria outbreaks in America were in packaged salad greens and vegetable, and the absolute risks of getting listeria are still very low. Etc.

Which is to say: there's a difference between 'increased risk' and 'absolute risk', and there's a difference between 'generally recommended because it's easy to make general recommendations into public guidelines' and 'actually evaluated risks for this specific person and recommended in her situation'.

Which is also to say that I've had it up to HERE with people lecturing pregnant women as if they suddenly lose all autonomy by getting knocked up.

Obviously, my post was not a pregnancy advice post--just some general guidelines.

Yeah, I know, but I'm currently pregnant and my colleagues seem to take it as an invitation to give (shitty) advice on every single aspect of my life and I am a liiiiiiiiittle on edge about it right now.

If by "a little on edge" we mean "one missed breath from slapping someone".

And the next person who asks me about the state of my fucking CERVIX while at work is gonna get it. FYI.

So, what state is your fucking cervix in?

Fortunately for you, probably a different country than you're located... ;)

[infogoon]

Different Aunt: You keep pulling up things about smoking maryjane being bad while pregnant. No one is denying that, but that isn't the conversation. You also shouldn't have caffeine, or alcohol, or raw meat, or fish, or deli meat, or certain cheeses, or (should I go on?). At least make a sound argument; you have a Masters and you should be able to do that. What you're saying is like me saying that Hockey should be outlawed because if you get body checked while pregnant the child could die. No, you just shouldn't play hockey while pregnant. Not that hard.

Because I HAVE to nitpick... ;)

Large amounts of caffeine is not recommended while pregant (typically more than a cup or 2 a day) as there seems to be a corrolation between high caffeine usage and high miscarriage rates (NOT proven causation, corrolation - note the difference... and you know what else is corrolated to both higher miscarriage rates AND higher caffeine consumption? Maternal age. Just sayin'). Alcohol... is something you shouldn't have, but one knows what quantity is actually harmful and no ethics committee EVER would approve that study - typically speaking, a few sips does no harm and a half-bottle does, use sense, etc (or, in other words: 35 years ago, French women were told 'no more than a glass a day' and American women were told 'none at all, ever', and I don't think we can make the argument that the current generation of French people is worst off for it. Apply connon sense as needed.). Certain cheeses and deli meats are forbidden because of fear of listeria (because pregnant women are more vulnerable AND it increases miscarriage rates) but the last few wide-spread listeria outbreaks in America were in packaged salad greens and vegetable, and the absolute risks of getting listeria are still very low. Etc.

Which is to say: there's a difference between 'increased risk' and 'absolute risk', and there's a difference between 'generally recommended because it's easy to make general recommendations into public guidelines' and 'actually evaluated risks for this specific person and recommended in her situation'.

Which is also to say that I've had it up to HERE with people lecturing pregnant women as if they suddenly lose all autonomy by getting knocked up.

Obviously, my post was not a pregnancy advice post--just some general guidelines.

Yeah, I know, but I'm currently pregnant and my colleagues seem to take it as an invitation to give (shitty) advice on every single aspect of my life and I am a liiiiiiiiittle on edge about it right now.

If by "a little on edge" we mean "one missed breath from slapping someone".

And the next person who asks me about the state of my fucking CERVIX while at work is gonna get it. FYI.

So, what state is your fucking cervix in?

It's a province, I believe.

[LeRainDrop]

No, Aunt, the woman in your story is not on Social Security, she's on disability. And in any case, someone who has Cerebral Palsy and no family is not the drain on the system I'm worried about.

Since we're already nitpicking, disability benefits actually do fall within Social Security (unless you're talking about payments from a disability insurance policy).  But yeah, I agree with your broader point.  :-)

[mustachepungoeshere]

No, Aunt, the woman in your story is not on Social Security, she's on disability. And in any case, someone who has Cerebral Palsy and no family is not the drain on the system I'm worried about.

Since we're already nitpicking, disability benefits actually do fall within Social Security (unless you're talking about payments from a disability insurance policy).  But yeah, I agree with your broader point.  :-)

I find the distinction interesting.

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2010/10/05/130353638/the-tuesday-podcast-the-art-of-living-at-the-poverty-line

This woman received subsidised housing, food stamps and other government support, but proudly proclaimed that she "never went on welfare" because she didn't receive cash payments.

[MgoSam]

No, Aunt, the woman in your story is not on Social Security, she's on disability. And in any case, someone who has Cerebral Palsy and no family is not the drain on the system I'm worried about.

Since we're already nitpicking, disability benefits actually do fall within Social Security (unless you're talking about payments from a disability insurance policy).  But yeah, I agree with your broader point.  :-)

I find the distinction interesting.

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2010/10/05/130353638/the-tuesday-podcast-the-art-of-living-at-the-poverty-line

This woman received subsidised housing, food stamps and other government support, but proudly proclaimed that she "never went on welfare" because she didn't receive cash payments.

"I've been on welfare and food stamps, did anyone help me out? No. No"
-Craig T Nelson

[AlanStache]

No, Aunt, the woman in your story is not on Social Security, she's on disability. And in any case, someone who has Cerebral Palsy and no family is not the drain on the system I'm worried about.

Since we're already nitpicking, disability benefits actually do fall within Social Security (unless you're talking about payments from a disability insurance policy).  But yeah, I agree with your broader point.  :-)

I find the distinction interesting.

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2010/10/05/130353638/the-tuesday-podcast-the-art-of-living-at-the-poverty-line

This woman received subsidised housing, food stamps and other government support, but proudly proclaimed that she "never went on welfare" because she didn't receive cash payments.

"I've been on welfare and food stamps, did anyone help me out? No. No"
-Craig T Nelson

With that quote in mind I just read his bio http://www.biography.com/people/craig-t-nelson-587096#synopsis  cant say it makes a good impression of the man.  That welfare/food stamps period was in the late 70's while he was in northern California so apparently he could not figure out how to grow pot. 

[mtn]

No, Aunt, the woman in your story is not on Social Security, she's on disability. And in any case, someone who has Cerebral Palsy and no family is not the drain on the system I'm worried about.

Since we're already nitpicking, disability benefits actually do fall within Social Security (unless you're talking about payments from a disability insurance policy).  But yeah, I agree with your broader point.  :-)

Not really. SSI doesn't come from the same taxes as standard social security. And we did tell her SSI.

[LeRainDrop]

No, Aunt, the woman in your story is not on Social Security, she's on disability. And in any case, someone who has Cerebral Palsy and no family is not the drain on the system I'm worried about.

Since we're already nitpicking, disability benefits actually do fall within Social Security (unless you're talking about payments from a disability insurance policy).  But yeah, I agree with your broader point.  :-)

Not really. SSI doesn't come from the same taxes as standard social security. And we did tell her SSI.

If you are talking United States, then yes really.  "Social Security" is actually the Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance (OASDI) program and includes retirement benefits, survivors benefits, and disability benefits.  All of these components are funded through the same payroll taxes, but then go into two separate trust funds -- the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund and the Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund.  Note that "excess funds" (measured as the amount paid in by current workers being more than the amount paid out to current beneficiaries) go into the U.S. Treasury and can be used for non-Social Security purposes, in exchange for special government securities that go into the trust accounts.

Perhaps you are thinking of Medicare as the similar concept but that is funded from a different tax than Social Security?  Because it is true that those are two separate line items.

[mtn]

No, Aunt, the woman in your story is not on Social Security, she's on disability. And in any case, someone who has Cerebral Palsy and no family is not the drain on the system I'm worried about.

Since we're already nitpicking, disability benefits actually do fall within Social Security (unless you're talking about payments from a disability insurance policy).  But yeah, I agree with your broader point.  :-)

Not really. SSI doesn't come from the same taxes as standard social security. And we did tell her SSI.

If you are talking United States, then yes really.  "Social Security" is actually the Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance (OASDI) program and includes retirement benefits, survivors benefits, and disability benefits.  All of these components are funded through the same payroll taxes, but then go into two separate trust funds -- the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund and the Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund.  Note that "excess funds" (measured as the amount paid in by current workers being more than the amount paid out to current beneficiaries) go into the U.S. Treasury and can be used for non-Social Security purposes, in exchange for special government securities that go into the trust accounts.

Perhaps you are thinking of Medicare as the similar concept but that is funded from a different tax than Social Security?  Because it is true that those are two separate line items.

SSI--Supplemental Security Income. It comes from the Treasury's general funds, not the Social Security trust fund, if my minor in economics is still fresh enough in my head (it might not be).

We don't actually know that was what she was on, but we know it wasn't "Social Security" as my Aunt was describing it ("she never paid a dime into it"... well, no, she's got cerebral palsy and couldn't work). Likely you're right and it was Medicare (or more likely, Medicaid). At the end of the day though, I really don't care what the woman is on as long as she is getting reasonable care.

[kayvent]

No, Aunt, the woman in your story is not on Social Security, she's on disability. And in any case, someone who has Cerebral Palsy and no family is not the drain on the system I'm worried about.

Since we're already nitpicking, disability benefits actually do fall within Social Security (unless you're talking about payments from a disability insurance policy).  But yeah, I agree with your broader point.  :-)

Not really. SSI doesn't come from the same taxes as standard social security. And we did tell her SSI.

If you are talking United States, then yes really.  "Social Security" is actually the Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance (OASDI) program and includes retirement benefits, survivors benefits, and disability benefits.  All of these components are funded through the same payroll taxes, but then go into two separate trust funds -- the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund and the Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund.  Note that "excess funds" (measured as the amount paid in by current workers being more than the amount paid out to current beneficiaries) go into the U.S. Treasury and can be used for non-Social Security purposes, in exchange for special government securities that go into the trust accounts.

Perhaps you are thinking of Medicare as the similar concept but that is funded from a different tax than Social Security?  Because it is true that those are two separate line items.

SSI--Supplemental Security Income. It comes from the Treasury's general funds, not the Social Security trust fund, if my minor in economics is still fresh enough in my head (it might not be).

Since Bill Clinton, the incoming money to the trust fund and general funds have been effectively merged (that is one of the ways he was able to claim a surplus). It is because of this merging that people occasionally say that the trust fund has been drained. The surplus from money for the fund was diverted for the past two decades to make up the difference between the budget minus general funds & debt accumulation. Social Security does have an IOU from general funds but people on the right like Paul Ryan think that IOU will not be honored. The view of the IOU is mixed on the left.

[Pooperman]

No, Aunt, the woman in your story is not on Social Security, she's on disability. And in any case, someone who has Cerebral Palsy and no family is not the drain on the system I'm worried about.

Since we're already nitpicking, disability benefits actually do fall within Social Security (unless you're talking about payments from a disability insurance policy).  But yeah, I agree with your broader point.  :-)

Not really. SSI doesn't come from the same taxes as standard social security. And we did tell her SSI.

If you are talking United States, then yes really.  "Social Security" is actually the Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance (OASDI) program and includes retirement benefits, survivors benefits, and disability benefits.  All of these components are funded through the same payroll taxes, but then go into two separate trust funds -- the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund and the Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund.  Note that "excess funds" (measured as the amount paid in by current workers being more than the amount paid out to current beneficiaries) go into the U.S. Treasury and can be used for non-Social Security purposes, in exchange for special government securities that go into the trust accounts.

Perhaps you are thinking of Medicare as the similar concept but that is funded from a different tax than Social Security?  Because it is true that those are two separate line items.

SSI--Supplemental Security Income. It comes from the Treasury's general funds, not the Social Security trust fund, if my minor in economics is still fresh enough in my head (it might not be).

We don't actually know that was what she was on, but we know it wasn't "Social Security" as my Aunt was describing it ("she never paid a dime into it"... well, no, she's got cerebral palsy and couldn't work). Likely you're right and it was Medicare (or more likely, Medicaid). At the end of the day though, I really don't care what the woman is on as long as she is getting reasonable care.

She could have gotten SSDI through her parents as a child (continuing as an adult) along with SSI if the SSDI wasn't too much. SSI gives Medicaid, SSDI gives Medicare (and SSDI converts to normal SS upon reaching 62).

[economista]

I find the distinction interesting.

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2010/10/05/130353638/the-tuesday-podcast-the-art-of-living-at-the-poverty-line

This woman received subsidised housing, food stamps and other government support, but proudly proclaimed that she "never went on welfare" because she didn't receive cash payments.

This!  Nothing irritates me more than people who ignore the welfare benefits they receive and play it off like they earned everything they have.  My brother and his wife and children live in subsidized housing (they pay around $30 per month for a 3 bedroom apartment) and they get food stamps, but my mom makes a big deal out of the fact that "they aren't on welfare."  Are you f*cking kidding me?!  Subsidized housing and food stamps are part of the welfare program, and the single largest component of the welfare program is the earned income tax credit, which they receive every year!  My mom also tries to say that she only got welfare once or twice while we were growing up.  In reality, we always lived in subsidized housing, we always received food stamps, we got food and clothes from the food bank, and after only working a bare minimum throughout the year, she always got more back at tax time than she came close to paying in, because of EITC.  Yet they are all ignorant voters* who exclusively vote Republican because they think they've worked hard for the things they have and they shouldn't have to support drains on the system who don't support themselves.  I've pointed out to them that they benefit from the welfare programs that exist and they are voting for the people who say they are going to get rid of those systems.  They argue with me that they don't receive welfare and "the lazy leeches" shouldn't be able to take their hard earned money.  Yet they are unemployed 75% of the year and don't realize the "lazy leeches" the politicians are talking about are them.

*I'm not intending to say all Republican voters are ignorant, I'm saying my family members are ignorant voters because they don't take the time to understand the issues and they vote for people who want to take away the benefits they live on, without realizing it. 

[MgoSam]

Yet they are all ignorant voters* who exclusively vote Republican because they think they've worked hard for the things they have and they shouldn't have to support drains on the system who don't support themselves.  I've pointed out to them that they benefit from the welfare programs that exist and they are voting for the people who say they are going to get rid of those systems.  They argue with me that they don't receive welfare and "the lazy leeches" shouldn't be able to take their hard earned money.  Yet they are unemployed 75% of the year and don't realize the "lazy leeches" the politicians are talking about are them.

I feel like such people think that when they (white people) use welfare benefits it's ok because they somehow all paid into the system but when others (non-white people) use it, "THEY"RE ABUSING THE SYSTEM, WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO PAID FOR THEIR LAZINESS!"

[economista]

Yet they are all ignorant voters* who exclusively vote Republican because they think they've worked hard for the things they have and they shouldn't have to support drains on the system who don't support themselves.  I've pointed out to them that they benefit from the welfare programs that exist and they are voting for the people who say they are going to get rid of those systems.  They argue with me that they don't receive welfare and "the lazy leeches" shouldn't be able to take their hard earned money.  Yet they are unemployed 75% of the year and don't realize the "lazy leeches" the politicians are talking about are them.

I feel like such people think that when they (white people) use welfare benefits it's ok because they somehow all paid into the system but when others (non-white people) use it, "THEY"RE ABUSING THE SYSTEM, WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO PAID FOR THEIR LAZINESS!"

Exactly!  And, being an economist who studies this exact system makes trips back home extremely stressful and annoying. 

[Nederstash]

... we got food and clothes from the food bank ...

just had a very vivid image of you shouting at your mom "I wanted a leather jacket!" and your mom just standing there dumbfounded with a lettuce in her hand "Oh, I thought you said a lettuce jacket"

Nevermind, I've had too much coffee.

[economista]

... we got food and clothes from the food bank ...

just had a very vivid image of you shouting at your mom "I wanted a leather jacket!" and your mom just standing there dumbfounded with a lettuce in her hand "Oh, I thought you said a lettuce jacket"

Nevermind, I've had too much coffee.

Haha!  That made me laugh :)

[Half-Borg]

My great aunt just lectured me for an hour, that I need to have enough saved up, to replace my washing machine and would not stop when I said I'm covered.
She's not per se wrong, but I don't worry to much about my washing machine with 75k saved up.
The way she said it implied, they just recently managed to save up enough of an emergency fund to cover a washing machine at the ripe age of 70.

[Playing with Fire UK]

My great aunt just lectured me for an hour, that I need to have enough saved up, to replace my washing machine and would not stop when I said I'm covered.
She's not per se wrong, but I don't worry to much about my washing machine with 75k saved up.
The way she said it implied, they just recently managed to save up enough of an emergency fund to cover a washing machine at the ripe age of 70.

THIS, this is why I do what I do.

Was the lecture at least well meaning? Are you going to tell her next time that you've followed her advice and now have a washing machine fund?

[Half-Borg]

My great aunt just lectured me for an hour, that I need to have enough saved up, to replace my washing machine and would not stop when I said I'm covered.
She's not per se wrong, but I don't worry to much about my washing machine with 75k saved up.
The way she said it implied, they just recently managed to save up enough of an emergency fund to cover a washing machine at the ripe age of 70.

THIS, this is why I do what I do.

Was the lecture at least well meaning? Are you going to tell her next time that you've followed her advice and now have a washing machine fund?

I'm really not sure what would happen if any of my relatives knew how much I earn and how much I save. I guess it would not go well.
As of now they all think I'm poor as fuck because I sold my car and didn't buy a new one.

[Playing with Fire UK]

As of now they all think I'm poor as fuck because I sold my car and didn't buy a new one.

It was because you needed to replace your washing machine wasn't it...

[MgoSam]

As of now they all think I'm poor as fuck because I sold my car and didn't buy a new one.

It was because you needed to replace your washing machine wasn't it...

Yeah sounds like someone really needs to work on getting their washing machine savings fun fully funded.....

[Nederstash]

As of now they all think I'm poor as fuck because I sold my car and didn't buy a new one.

It was because you needed to replace your washing machine wasn't it...

Yeah sounds like someone really needs to work on getting their washing machine savings fun fully funded.....

For shame! Won't you think of the children! No washing machine fund... you're a disgrace to whatever country you're currently inhabiting.

[ysette9]

My mother, who probably already thinks we are a little weird to not spend money on things she would spend money on, was kindly at our house taking care of our kid while I was away on travel for work. This happen to coincide with the truly old-and-crappy washing machine at our rental house making the leap from "sucks but mostly works" to "okay, really isn't washing the clothes now and not rinsing out the detergent to boot". We had a long-standing agreement with our landlord that we would purchase a new washer/dryer for the house if the landlord would do the install. It was finally my mother being at our house and being able to handle the delivery logistics that got me off my butt to spend the $375 (installed! old crap hauled away!) for a used set on Craigslist. At one point she was talking about finding a laundromat, which did give me an instant of embarrassment. We keep telling ourselves that ONE DAY we'll grow up and have a nice house with decent appliances and double pane windows and central heat and insulation and and and..... (I have a lot of desires in life).

[Papa Mustache]

My great aunt just lectured me for an hour, that I need to have enough saved up, to replace my washing machine and would not stop when I said I'm covered.
She's not per se wrong, but I don't worry to much about my washing machine with 75k saved up.
The way she said it implied, they just recently managed to save up enough of an emergency fund to cover a washing machine at the ripe age of 70.

And a roof fund, and a tire fund, and a transmission rebuild fund, and a dentist fund, and a plumbing fund (one for the house and one for a trip to the doctor should something cause you to say uh-oh!), a clothing fund, and.... and... and....

[Half-Borg]

As of now they all think I'm poor as fuck because I sold my car and didn't buy a new one.

It was because you needed to replace your washing machine wasn't it...

Actually one of the last things I did with the car,was hauling a new washing machine from my father to me. He bought one more than he needed (don't ask me, it's complicated) and I figured it's better to replace my old, perfectly fine one, than having a new one sitting around gathering dust.
I also paid my father the full retail price even tough the same one would've been 200€ less on amazon with shipping.

[Playing with Fire UK]

As of now they all think I'm poor as fuck because I sold my car and didn't buy a new one.

It was because you needed to replace your washing machine wasn't it...

Actually one of the last things I did with the car,was hauling a new washing machine from my father to me. He bought one more than he needed (don't ask me, it's complicated) and I figured it's better to replace my old, perfectly fine one, than having a new one sitting around gathering dust.
I also paid my father the full retail price even tough the same one would've been 200€ less on amazon with shipping.

I knew it! Cum hoc ergo propter hoc. QED

You did a good thing.

[Ralph2]

Which is also to say that I've had it up to HERE with people lecturing pregnant women as if they suddenly lose all autonomy by getting knocked up.

Obviously, my post was not a pregnancy advice post--just some general guidelines.

Yeah, I know, but I'm currently pregnant and my colleagues seem to take it as an invitation to give (shitty) advice on every single aspect of my life and I am a liiiiiiiiittle on edge about it right now.

If by "a little on edge" we mean "one missed breath from slapping someone".

And the next person who asks me about the state of my fucking CERVIX while at work is gonna get it. FYI.

Kase, it that you?

[wenchsenior]

I find the distinction interesting.

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2010/10/05/130353638/the-tuesday-podcast-the-art-of-living-at-the-poverty-line

This woman received subsidised housing, food stamps and other government support, but proudly proclaimed that she "never went on welfare" because she didn't receive cash payments.

This!  Nothing irritates me more than people who ignore the welfare benefits they receive and play it off like they earned everything they have.  My brother and his wife and children live in subsidized housing (they pay around $30 per month for a 3 bedroom apartment) and they get food stamps, but my mom makes a big deal out of the fact that "they aren't on welfare."  Are you f*cking kidding me?!  Subsidized housing and food stamps are part of the welfare program, and the single largest component of the welfare program is the earned income tax credit, which they receive every year!  My mom also tries to say that she only got welfare once or twice while we were growing up.  In reality, we always lived in subsidized housing, we always received food stamps, we got food and clothes from the food bank, and after only working a bare minimum throughout the year, she always got more back at tax time than she came close to paying in, because of EITC.  Yet they are all ignorant voters* who exclusively vote Republican because they think they've worked hard for the things they have and they shouldn't have to support drains on the system who don't support themselves.  I've pointed out to them that they benefit from the welfare programs that exist and they are voting for the people who say they are going to get rid of those systems.  They argue with me that they don't receive welfare and "the lazy leeches" shouldn't be able to take their hard earned money.  Yet they are unemployed 75% of the year and don't realize the "lazy leeches" the politicians are talking about are them.

*I'm not intending to say all Republican voters are ignorant, I'm saying my family members are ignorant voters because they don't take the time to understand the issues and they vote for people who want to take away the benefits they live on, without realizing it.

Oh, man. I try to retain glimmers of optimism that most conservative voters really do vote GOP because they truly want welfare dismantled on principle (I disagree, but at least that is a legitimate philosophy), and that my worst suspicions about their profound levels of ignorance and self-delusion are wrong. But then you guys tell stories like this...and I go back to wanting to face-punch them. I realize the plural of anecdote is not data, but it's hard to believe the best of people sometimes. Or ever.

[Linea_Norway]

In the Netherlands some smart insure companies have invented the funeral insurance. You pay insurance money, to get money in return after you die, to pay for your own funeral. A funeral, in my opinion, should have been your family's financial problem.

My mother has bought this insurance and told me to also buy it. It said I found such an insurance unnecessary, because I can afford my own funeral and I don't need a pricy funeral. That obviously pissed her off, because she threatened me to not pay for my funeral if I would die before her. I thought that was so unreasonable, because I would without any hesitation have paid for her funeral, as I think is a child's obligation.

My brother, who was at that time still living in my mother's house, had also taken such an insurance, just to make her shut up about it.

[Metric Mouse]

In the Netherlands some smart insure companies have invented the funeral insurance. You pay insurance money, to get money in return after you die, to pay for your own funeral. A funeral, in my opinion, should have been your family's financial problem.

My mother has bought this insurance and told me to also buy it. It said I found such an insurance unnecessary, because I can afford my own funeral and I don't need a pricy funeral. That obviously pissed her off, because she threatened me to not pay for my funeral if I would die before her. I thought that was so unreasonable, because I would without any hesitation have paid for her funeral, as I think is a child's obligation.

My brother, who was at that time still living in my mother's house, had also taken such an insurance, just to make her shut up about it.

Funeral insurance... genius. 

[kayvent]

In the Netherlands some smart insure companies have invented the funeral insurance. You pay insurance money, to get money in return after you die, to pay for your own funeral. A funeral, in my opinion, should have been your family's financial problem.

My mother has bought this insurance and told me to also buy it. It said I found such an insurance unnecessary, because I can afford my own funeral and I don't need a pricy funeral. That obviously pissed her off, because she threatened me to not pay for my funeral if I would die before her. I thought that was so unreasonable, because I would without any hesitation have paid for her funeral, as I think is a child's obligation.

My brother, who was at that time still living in my mother's house, had also taken such an insurance, just to make her shut up about it.

Isn't insurance for unexpected, unlikely expenses that are very costly? I know I'm planning not to die (working well so far) but I doubt many people have this plan that they'd need insurance for.

[marion10]

The advantage of a small life insurance policy for funeral expenses is that the money is available very quickly to the beneficiary without going through the courts.

[slugline]

Funeral insurance? I would imagine this to be like a hybrid of life insurance and prepaid funeral plans. Is my guess close?

[runningthroughFIRE]

I'm more laughing at her response to you refusing funeral insurance.  You said you could/would pay for your own funeral, and she threatened to not pay for it?  That's a pretty hollow threat.

[Ann]

How is threatening not to pay for the funeral an actual threat? Act insulted and say "What?!? Not pay for my funeral!!  Over my dead body!"

I don't want to plan to cause any more grief to my friends and family after I'm gone but at that point it won't be my problem and I'll never know about it.  Dead.

[Linea_Norway]

Funeral insurance? I would imagine this to be like a hybrid of life insurance and prepaid funeral plans. Is my guess close?

No, it is not a life insurance. But the funeral can quickly be payed for. Normally the deceased pays for her/himself from the leftover money. But it can take a while before the relatives can claim that money. They would probably have to pay the bill first and get it back a month or to later, is my guess.
In my opinion this is a ridiculous product.