Relatives who just don't get it

[TheOldestYoungMan]

The other day, my Mother was asking me about what to get me for my birthday (which is still half a year away). "Mom, I don't need or want anything for my birthday. Mom, "Oh, come on, you're not going to deny me the opportunity to get you something for your birthday!" Me, "Ok, Mom, give me cash." Mom, "You're just going to put it in the kids' college fund!" Me, "Yes, exactly."

Sigh. I'm afraid if I don't tell her something specific to get me, I'm going to wind up with more crap that is going to go directly to the donate pile. But there is literally nothing that I want or need for myself. And I don't think telling her to get me some toothbrush head replacements would go over very well.

Amazon/Visa gift cards.  Baked goods.  I always ask for my favorite dish she used to make when I was a kid.  Your mom is not an annoyance!  It is your responsibility to scour the brain for some type of consumable you do use that she won't think of as a ridiculous gift.

For emergency use only:  "How about a nice framed picture of you?"

I use that on my sisters all the time.  Bonus, they feel guilt for being behind on the picture obligation (I don't impose the obligation, society imposes the obligation.)

[Geostache]

Oooh, I like the Amazon/Visa gift cards idea! I thought about a gift card to a local spa for a pedicure, since that's something I do enjoy but am no longer willing to pay for myself. I'll have to ponder that some more...

Amazon/Visa gift cards.  Baked goods.  I always ask for my favorite dish she used to make when I was a kid.  Your mom is not an annoyance!  It is your responsibility to scour the brain for some type of consumable you do use that she won't think of as a ridiculous gift.

For emergency use only:  "How about a nice framed picture of you?"

I use that on my sisters all the time.  Bonus, they feel guilt for being behind on the picture obligation (I don't impose the obligation, society imposes the obligation.)

[Lynne]

I'm afraid if I don't tell her something specific to get me, I'm going to wind up with more crap that is going to go directly to the donate pile. But there is literally nothing that I want or need for myself. And I don't think telling her to get me some toothbrush head replacements would go over very well.

Birthday party food?  I don't know if she'd go for that, but at least it's consumable...

I hate getting stuff as presents as well.  Mostly I've trained people out of it, but it still crops up.  I do appreciate the thought, and occasionally I even like the present, but usually it's just...more stuff, ugh.  (And I have a hard time donating presents because someone I care about spent money on them, and that's harder to write off than if I'd spent the money myself.  I need to get over that.)

[mtn]

Oooh, I like the Amazon/Visa gift cards idea! I thought about a gift card to a local spa for a pedicure, since that's something I do enjoy but am no longer willing to pay for myself. I'll have to ponder that some more...

Amazon/Visa gift cards.  Baked goods.  I always ask for my favorite dish she used to make when I was a kid.  Your mom is not an annoyance!  It is your responsibility to scour the brain for some type of consumable you do use that she won't think of as a ridiculous gift.

For emergency use only:  "How about a nice framed picture of you?"

I use that on my sisters all the time.  Bonus, they feel guilt for being behind on the picture obligation (I don't impose the obligation, society imposes the obligation.)

How much does your mom spend on you? Is it a $50 gift, or a $400 gift? If the latter, do the pedicure thing. Treat yo' self. If it is a lot more, just do the amazon/visa thing. Or a gas card. Or a Costco gift card. Or a nice roast duck. Everybody loves roast duck.

[Geostache]

How much does your mom spend on you? Is it a $50 gift, or a $400 gift? If the latter, do the pedicure thing. Treat yo' self. If it is a lot more, just do the amazon/visa thing. Or a gas card. Or a Costco gift card. Or a nice roast duck. Everybody loves roast duck.

Lol - roast duck. I don't know the exact amount she spends, but it's more like the former than the latter. I went with the spa/pedicure thing. Hopefully that will work!

[Apples]

Yes!  Get something for an experience somewhere.  Even just movie or restaurant gift cards to places you haven't been.  Or membership to a theater/museum/park near you.  Etc.  Or a magazine.

[shelivesthedream]

The other day, my Mother was asking me about what to get me for my birthday (which is still half a year away). "Mom, I don't need or want anything for my birthday. Mom, "Oh, come on, you're not going to deny me the opportunity to get you something for your birthday!" Me, "Ok, Mom, give me cash." Mom, "You're just going to put it in the kids' college fund!" Me, "Yes, exactly."

Sigh. I'm afraid if I don't tell her something specific to get me, I'm going to wind up with more crap that is going to go directly to the donate pile. But there is literally nothing that I want or need for myself. And I don't think telling her to get me some toothbrush head replacements would go over very well.

If in doubt, I usually ask for fancy toiletries (because I'll always need soap and it seems 'gifty') or expensive socks (because I'll always get through socks eventually).

[RunHappy]

The other day, my Mother was asking me about what to get me for my birthday (which is still half a year away). "Mom, I don't need or want anything for my birthday. Mom, "Oh, come on, you're not going to deny me the opportunity to get you something for your birthday!" Me, "Ok, Mom, give me cash." Mom, "You're just going to put it in the kids' college fund!" Me, "Yes, exactly."

Sigh. I'm afraid if I don't tell her something specific to get me, I'm going to wind up with more crap that is going to go directly to the donate pile. But there is literally nothing that I want or need for myself. And I don't think telling her to get me some toothbrush head replacements would go over very well.

If in doubt, I usually ask for fancy toiletries (because I'll always need soap and it seems 'gifty') or expensive socks (because I'll always get through socks eventually).

Same here.  I will always be able to use more soaps and nicely scented lotions.  Sheets and towels are also good too. 

[force majeure]

Yeah, I met with an old friend today. Told him about my interest in early retirement and a frugal lifestyle. He laughed at me, good luck with that, he said, and finding any woman interested in living frugally. He told me it would take a huge amount of money to fund that, with interest rates at zero. I made no reply, and confirms my thoughts, you cant convert people to this way of thinking.
 

[phillyvalue]

Yeah, I met with an old friend today. Told him about my interest in early retirement and a frugal lifestyle. He laughed at me, good luck with that, he said, and finding any woman interested in living frugally. He told me it would take a huge amount of money to fund that, with interest rates at zero. I made no reply, and confirms my thoughts, you cant convert people to this way of thinking.

Well, without making any value judgment either way, I'd say he is essentially right on both points. First, if you live very frugally as some on this site do, you are no doubt restricting the number of people you will be able to associate with, whether as friends or partners. You can argue that you are restricting the number of people to those who are compatible with you, and that's probably true, but overall it makes the process harder than if you were a "normal" person. On the second point, no doubt IMO it's going to be a rough time going forward for those of us counting on investing in stocks for retirement. I'm sure stocks will do OK over a long term time horizon, but many people I think are anchored to the returns we've seen over the past 30 years or so, which likely wont be repeated.

Doesn't mean anyone should abandon this lifestyle, but those are two legitimate issues.

[purplish]

I always tell family my preference for store gift cards for birthdays and Chanukah/Christmas (after they ask me what to get me, I don't demand anything).  I know if I said "nothing" my dad would just get me something really unnecessary and would need to return it lol.  This works out because I tend to say places that sell a variety of things, that way I could spend it on clothes, shoes, home goods, etc.  He doesn't always listen, but I would say I get a gift card once a year, which essentially fully fund wardrobe updates for the year.  Well, or more, I tend to keep the cards sitting around forever sometimes, cause I just don't feel like getting anything.

[Syonyk]

There are places online you can sell gift cards...

[Rubic]

The other day, my Mother was asking me about what to get me for my birthday (which is still half a year away). "Mom, I don't need or want anything for my birthday. Mom, "Oh, come on, you're not going to deny me the opportunity to get you something for your birthday!" Me, "Ok, Mom, give me cash." Mom, "You're just going to put it in the kids' college fund!" Me, "Yes, exactly."

Ask her for the most anti-Mustachian item that you secretly desire in your heart of hearts ... out with it ... you know you want it ...

Last Christmas my parents gave me a Happy Hacker Pro (tm) keyboard:  http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Professional2-Black/dp/B000EXZ0VC/

[Rubic]

There are places online you can sell gift cards...

A couple years ago my cousin bought me an pricey gift card at Dick's Sporting's Goods.

I literally couldn't find a single item to purchase, so I went through selling it online and recuping 95% of its value!

[Geostache]

If in doubt, I usually ask for fancy toiletries (because I'll always need soap and it seems 'gifty') or expensive socks (because I'll always get through socks eventually).

I never thought of fancy toiletries. I do use soap on a daily basis. :-) OH, the socks. The horror of the socks. For about 10 years in a row, my mother gave me fuzzy socks for Christmas. Multiple pairs a year. Seriously, if I had kept them all, I would likely now have about 100 PAIRS of fuzzy socks in my drawers. That and Christmas mugs. After begging and pleading with her to please stop it with the socks and the mugs, she did. This year, she gave me one pair of socks as a joke. I told her it wasn't funny.

[oldmannickels]

My sister's boyfriend has a brother that is really bad with money. He does a lot of stupid things that I get to hear about.

The last one was that he bought a new truck for $30k and thought that he had worked it out so he had a $250 payment. He couldn't figure out why a bill collector was calling until he realized that it was $250 twice monthly. He bounced a check to his parents and missed a utility payment so the bill collectors have also been calling grandma at the nursing home since he lives in her house.

[DTaggart]

Several years ago my brother bought a used Suburban, to add to the two perfectly good vehicles he already owned. Now he did get a good price on it and did some work on his own to fix it up, so it wasn't like he went out and spent $30k on a brand new one, but still - gas isn't exactly free. I asked him what he needed another vehicle, and so large, for. His reason? He has two kids, and like many siblings, they bicker. Apparently long car rides can only be survived by providing each child with their own entire row of seats.

[SpicyMcHaggus]

Several years ago my brother bought a used Suburban, to add to the two perfectly good vehicles he already owned. Now he did get a good price on it and did some work on his own to fix it up, so it wasn't like he went out and spent $30k on a brand new one, but still - gas isn't exactly free. I asked him what he needed another vehicle, and so large, for. His reason? He has two kids, and like many siblings, they bicker. Apparently long car rides can only be survived by providing each child with their own entire row of seats.

2 burlap sacks will fix that much cheaper.

[DTaggart]

Several years ago my brother bought a used Suburban, to add to the two perfectly good vehicles he already owned. Now he did get a good price on it and did some work on his own to fix it up, so it wasn't like he went out and spent $30k on a brand new one, but still - gas isn't exactly free. I asked him what he needed another vehicle, and so large, for. His reason? He has two kids, and like many siblings, they bicker. Apparently long car rides can only be survived by providing each child with their own entire row of seats.

2 burlap sacks will fix that much cheaper.

I know, right? ;) All I know is my two dogs share the backseat of our Honda Fit just fine!

[Sibley]

Several years ago my brother bought a used Suburban, to add to the two perfectly good vehicles he already owned. Now he did get a good price on it and did some work on his own to fix it up, so it wasn't like he went out and spent $30k on a brand new one, but still - gas isn't exactly free. I asked him what he needed another vehicle, and so large, for. His reason? He has two kids, and like many siblings, they bicker. Apparently long car rides can only be survived by providing each child with their own entire row of seats.

2 burlap sacks will fix that much cheaper.

I know, right? ;) All I know is my two dogs share the backseat of our Honda Fit just fine!

Being an actual parent would be helpful too. You know, the kind that has behavior expectations and enforces them.

[Ashyukun]

Several years ago my brother bought a used Suburban, to add to the two perfectly good vehicles he already owned. Now he did get a good price on it and did some work on his own to fix it up, so it wasn't like he went out and spent $30k on a brand new one, but still - gas isn't exactly free. I asked him what he needed another vehicle, and so large, for. His reason? He has two kids, and like many siblings, they bicker. Apparently long car rides can only be survived by providing each child with their own entire row of seats.

2 burlap sacks will fix that much cheaper.

I know, right? ;) All I know is my two dogs share the backseat of our Honda Fit just fine!

Being an actual parent would be helpful too. You know, the kind that has behavior expectations and enforces them.

I'd you would only really need a sedan (or coupe with a decent back seat) and a trunk. Whichever child can behave the best gets to ride in the back seat- the other has to ride in the trunk. ;P

[mtn]

Several years ago my brother bought a used Suburban, to add to the two perfectly good vehicles he already owned. Now he did get a good price on it and did some work on his own to fix it up, so it wasn't like he went out and spent $30k on a brand new one, but still - gas isn't exactly free. I asked him what he needed another vehicle, and so large, for. His reason? He has two kids, and like many siblings, they bicker. Apparently long car rides can only be survived by providing each child with their own entire row of seats.

2 burlap sacks will fix that much cheaper.

I know, right? ;) All I know is my two dogs share the backseat of our Honda Fit just fine!

Being an actual parent would be helpful too. You know, the kind that has behavior expectations and enforces them.

I'd you would only really need a sedan (or coupe with a decent back seat) and a trunk. Whichever child can behave the best gets to ride in the back seat- the other has to ride in the trunk. ;P

"Whoever is better behaved gets to ride in the El Camino. The other guy goes back in time to before he was born!"

(Hi Ash--I assume this is the same dork from that other site?)

[LiveLean]

Wife's sister called yesterday to tell her they were replacing the granite counter tops in their five-year-old, former model home...with different granite. Boy, you talk about home improvements in terms of percentage you'll get back in resale. I'd put this one at zero.

[Ashyukun]

Several years ago my brother bought a used Suburban, to add to the two perfectly good vehicles he already owned. Now he did get a good price on it and did some work on his own to fix it up, so it wasn't like he went out and spent $30k on a brand new one, but still - gas isn't exactly free. I asked him what he needed another vehicle, and so large, for. His reason? He has two kids, and like many siblings, they bicker. Apparently long car rides can only be survived by providing each child with their own entire row of seats.

2 burlap sacks will fix that much cheaper.

I know, right? ;) All I know is my two dogs share the backseat of our Honda Fit just fine!

Being an actual parent would be helpful too. You know, the kind that has behavior expectations and enforces them.

I'd you would only really need a sedan (or coupe with a decent back seat) and a trunk. Whichever child can behave the best gets to ride in the back seat- the other has to ride in the trunk. ;P

"Whoever is better behaved gets to ride in the El Camino. The other guy goes back in time to before he was born!"

(Hi Ash--I assume this is the same dork from that other site?)

Hey now, at the moment we have SWMBO's Mariner & I still have the Prius, both of which have back seats- though a misbehaving child would likely lose to our dog when it comes to which gets the back seat and which gets to ride in the 'way back'. And frankly as a kid I'd have been jockeying FOR riding in the back of the Elky (and I have some spare seats that will be set up in the bed so we can back it in at a Drive-In Theater and watch the movie). :P

And yes, you're absolutely correct. ;P

[Zamboni]

Wife's sister called yesterday to tell her they were replacing the granite counter tops in their five-year-old, former model home...with different granite. Boy, you talk about home improvements in terms of percentage you'll get back in resale. I'd put this one at zero.

But they had to replace that dated granite with this summer's new granite colors!

After all, nothing says the 1990s like ubatuba, and what would people like the cat sitter and the maids think?

[SpicyMcHaggus]

Wife's sister called yesterday to tell her they were replacing the granite counter tops in their five-year-old, former model home...with different granite. Boy, you talk about home improvements in terms of percentage you'll get back in resale. I'd put this one at zero.

But they had to replace that dated granite with this summer's new granite colors!

After all, nothing says the 1990s like ubatuba, and what would people like the cat sitter and the maids think?

Woof. talk about waste.

[tofuchampion]

Just found out my sister is pregnant with her 3rd kid. The last one is only 10 months old. She's a stay-at-home mom, and idk what her husband makes, but it's very little. Medicaid paid for her prenatal care & delivery last time, and I'm pretty sure they're getting food stamps. I don't know wtf they were thinking.

[SpicyMcHaggus]

Just found out my sister is pregnant with her 3rd kid. The last one is only 10 months old. She's a stay-at-home mom, and idk what her husband makes, but it's very little. Medicaid paid for her prenatal care & delivery last time, and I'm pretty sure they're getting food stamps. I don't know wtf they were thinking.

You should say something.
I find it hard to believe they haven't realized they shouldn't. But then they did.

[tofuchampion]

Just found out my sister is pregnant with her 3rd kid. The last one is only 10 months old. She's a stay-at-home mom, and idk what her husband makes, but it's very little. Medicaid paid for her prenatal care & delivery last time, and I'm pretty sure they're getting food stamps. I don't know wtf they were thinking.

You should say something.
I find it hard to believe they haven't realized they shouldn't. But then they did.

What can I say? What's done is done. She is not the type to take advice well, anyway - gets very defensive and angry, very quickly. They are religious and firmly in the "god will provide" camp.

[SpicyMcHaggus]

I come from a family where Gpa and Gma were very religious. They had 12 children. My father, the 3rd of 12 made sure I was an only child so that he was sure he could provide. He didn't want me to lack in education, time, or love as he did when he was a child. You can tell them that.

Prayer doesn't deliver money, food, diapers, higher education, or time for parenting. Nor does it erase regret.  If she doesn't take advice well, I advise you to wash your hands of involvement for your sanity.

Feel free to let it be known that I am upset with them for sucking up my tax dollars for their own selfish family expansion. I believe in freedom of religion, but when it comes to handing out welfare to people with more than 1 child already, I lean toward sterilization. Their freedom of religion shouldn't impose on my freedom from excessive taxation.

It sounds like she is too stupid and invested in her own little selfish world view to see that she depends on other PEOPLE, not GOD to provide. The days of single income working class multiple children households living comfortably are over. My grandfather could do it in the 50s but now that the cost to raise a child is near 200k, people need to be more responsible.

[Emilyngh]

Feel free to let it be known that I am upset with them for sucking up my tax dollars for their own selfish family expansion. I believe in freedom of religion, but when it comes to handing out welfare to people with more than 1 child already, I lean toward sterilization. Their freedom of religion shouldn't impose on my freedom from excessive taxation.

It sounds like she is too stupid and invested in her own little selfish world view to see that she depends on other PEOPLE, not GOD to provide. The days of single income working class multiple children households living comfortably are over. My grandfather could do it in the 50s but now that the cost to raise a child is near 200k, people need to be more responsible.

Yeah, really bad idea.   Telling someone who is expecting a child anything other than congratulations is a super dick move, regardless of how judgy you are of their lifestyle.

Also, it absolutely does not take nearly $200k to raise a child.   Absolutely not.

[SpicyMcHaggus]

Sorry, Emily, I disagree.

Being pregnant doesn't excuse you from the harsh reality of life. Seems like they are on their way to another Medicaid funded child. If they are on Medicaid, chances are they are on a food assistance program as well. AND THEY CHOOSE TO HAVE ANOTHER. It's not a 'miracle of god', it's unprotected sex without birth control. It is a choice, whether based on religion, carelessness, or outright stupidity. Sometimes feelings need to be hurt. If it makes me a dick, so be it. HAVING KIDS ON PUBLIC ASSISTANCE IS NEVER OKAY. You're putting your own selfish wants "I want a[nother] child." ahead of the actual needs of the child[ren] [you already have].

Bottom line here is that the parents want a certain lifestyle. One free of birth control, and full of Jesus and a large family of children. That is a DESIRE. Not a RIGHT. I want 6 duplexes, but guess who has to save and work and pay for it? ME. Children should be no different. Regardless of your religious or political affiliation, I fail to see how anyone can be okay with bringing a child into the world knowing you will not be able to provide for it.

regarding the dollar figure, seems it has gone up recently:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=average%20cost%20to%20raise%20a%20child

$245k now. Granted, that is on a non-MMM style upbringing, but these people don't sound smart enough to get with the program any time soon, so I'm going to assume they'll just pray for everything they need... but doesn't god want you to help yourself before he helps you?

[RunHappy]

Sorry, Emily, I disagree.

Being pregnant doesn't excuse you from the harsh reality of life. Seems like they are on their way to another Medicaid funded child. If they are on Medicaid, chances are they are on a food assistance program as well. AND THEY CHOOSE TO HAVE ANOTHER. It's not a 'miracle of god', it's unprotected sex without birth control. It is a choice, whether based on religion, carelessness, or outright stupidity. Sometimes feelings need to be hurt. If it makes me a dick, so be it. HAVING KIDS ON PUBLIC ASSISTANCE IS NEVER OKAY. You're putting your own selfish wants "I want a[nother] child." ahead of the actual needs of the child[ren] [you already have].

Bottom line here is that the parents want a certain lifestyle. One free of birth control, and full of Jesus and a large family of children. That is a DESIRE. Not a RIGHT. I want 6 duplexes, but guess who has to save and work and pay for it? ME. Children should be no different. Regardless of your religious or political affiliation, I fail to see how anyone can be okay with bringing a child into the world knowing you will not be able to provide for it.

regarding the dollar figure, seems it has gone up recently:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=average%20cost%20to%20raise%20a%20child

$245k now. Granted, that is on a non-MMM style upbringing, but these people don't sound smart enough to get with the program any time soon, so I'm going to assume they'll just pray for everything they need... but doesn't god want you to help yourself before he helps you?

I agree with Emily. It is not the siblings place to tell them they are wrong.  The sister is already pregnant, they did not ask the advice or opinion of anyone else  before conceiving.  The deed is done.  Unless you are suggesting forced sterilization on certain groups of people, they are free to have as many children (or not) as they want.

Edit:  The sibling airing their anger to the one already pregnant is only going to create resentment and alienation among the family.  This is one of those times to keep your opinions to yourself (when dealing with family).

[SpicyMcHaggus]

They're free to. And i should be free to not pay for their freedom of choice.
They didn't ask any advice. They probably should have.
I absolutely think sterilization should be an option here. Tie your tubes or be cut off from medicaid. Public assistance is to get you back on your feet, not a lifelong handout to pay for your poor decisions.

You don't have kids intentionally if you can't afford it. Married, churchy, non-birth control using people ABSOLUTELY know what will happen if they continue to have sex. This child is a CHOICE. A CHOICE that they KNEW they couldn't afford. To me, this is just as disgusting as neglect.

It absolutely is her place to tell them they are wrong. They need to stop burying their heads in the sand and provide for what they have before they accept the responsibility for more.  Who better to bring that up than someone that loves them? It sounds like a tough conversation, but one that i have had with 2 friends and 1 cousin.

While there's nothing that can be done legally to stop them from continuing, I feel it is morally disgusting and irresponsible. Do you see it any other way ?

[cripzychiken]

My turn to add to these lovely stories.

Mom: We have a new baby (first grandkid in a large family).  So for baby's 1st MONTH birthday (don't get me started), she gets him 2 new outfits - price tags still on, $15/each. Knowing she likes buying gifts but sucks with money, I show her the local used baby clothes store - the only place I will shop for baby clothes (even for other people's kids).  She loves it gets him another $10 worth of outfits that day (face-palm).  For the 2nd month birthday (again, not me or wife doing/wanting this) we get a box full of outfits - probably 40-50 pieces, total spent was "only $40".  Well... still too much, but at least she is understanding things. 3 month birthday - at this point, we have probably 75 outfits from all sources, 1/2 of which he has never worn, she gets him 3 brand new outfits, $15/each again.  Told me it was too much time to shop at the used baby clothes store (which is closer to her house than big baby box store). 

Baby outgrows the outfits before he can wear them, Mom gets pissed when we return the outfits for store credit (our normal thing when we get tagged gifts - then buy diapers).

This is the same lady who has her ENTIRE RETIREMENT savings of $3,500 (at age 59) in a savings account that gets 0.1% interest (she has a loan of $10k at 9.9% at the same bank).  Can't show her where/how my $50k+ retirement is sitting (at age 26) because then she would ask for a loan since "I won't need the money for like 30 years".

Dad: he is just as great with money.  Cashed in on his pension at 55 - as soon as he could, at a full 25% of its value, a whopping $247/month - less than the electric bill on their 4/3 house (in case all 3 kids decide to come home at once - which has happened a grand total of 0 times in the 10 years they've rented this house - yes renting a 4/3).  He also quit his job 5 years ago to run his own business.  At the time he had 15-20 clients and it made sense.  In those 5 years, he's down to 3 customers and doesn't see the need to get a website to advertise his service based business, he still has an ad in the phonebook though, since that worked when he started his side job back in 1985.  He has no idea why he can't get more clients.

*ranting/typing this up, actually makes me feel better about it.  I mean, I'm laughing like an idiot right now at the stupidity I come from.  Not sure when these laughs will turn to tears.

[RunHappy]

While there's nothing that can be done legally to stop them from continuing, I feel it is morally disgusting and irresponsible. Do you see it any other way ?

What is telling someone you find them morally disgusting and irresponsible going to accomplish?

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

Do we know for sure that the family with the 3rd child got pregnant on purpose? They could have been using non-permanent birth control.

Even IUDs or vasectomies fail sometimes. Many people who get pregnant accidentally keep the baby--I would never throw stones at someone for not having an abortion.

[SpicyMcHaggus]

While there's nothing that can be done legally to stop them from continuing, I feel it is morally disgusting and irresponsible. Do you see it any other way ?

What is telling someone you find them morally disgusting and irresponsible going to accomplish?

Maybe it will shake them to the fact that there are other worldviews in existance than their own. They certainly aren't going to think of it on their own.

Do we know for sure that the family with the 3rd child got pregnant on purpose? They could have been using non-permanent birth control.

Even IUDs or vasectomies fail sometimes. Many people who get pregnant accidentally keep the baby--I would never throw stones at someone for not having an abortion.

We do not. I am making a presumption based on my own family. If I was wrong, and they were attempting to prevent having more kids they couldn't afford, I would backpedal all of it.  But... having seen this multiple times in my life, I feel safe labeling them as the "we don't try or try not to, we just let God decide".

I would never (despite being pro-choice) judge someone for not having an abortion; I was never suggesting that, but that since they are financially destitute, they should be taking proactive steps to ensure they don't bring another child they can't afford into the world.

[tofuchampion]

I don't think it was intentional. It might be worth saying that birth control pills are contraindicated for her because we have a family history of blood clots. I have an IUD, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were just using condoms or something.

I don't think of her as stupid and selfish, just naive. She also lets her husband make all the decisions (more religion there, yay!), and he is absolutely stupid and selfish.

[Shropskr]

We fired in January.  My parents once again.  You don't have enough money in today's dollars you maybe could do it on a million but with inflation it would take four.  Whatever .... that's what index funds do silly. Adjust for inflation.

Plus were moving.  first thing she said.  Make sure the new house has room for my RV so I can come see you.  She's come exactly zero times with the RV in ten years to the current house.  No I don't think an RV slot for you is the first thing on my house hunting requirements. 

Maybe this is why she thinks I need four million dollars to retire.

[zephyr911]

We fired in January.  My parents once again.  You don't have enough money in today's dollars you maybe could do it on a million but with inflation it would take four.  Whatever .... that's what index funds do silly. Adjust for inflation.

Plus were moving.  first thing she said.  Make sure the new house has room for my RV so I can come see you.  She's come exactly zero times with the RV in ten years to the current house.  No I don't think an RV slot for you is the first thing on my house hunting requirements. 

Maybe this is why she thinks I need four million dollars to retire.

Mustachians go out every day and disprove through their actions what people think is true about money, and happiness, and many other things.

How long do you think you'll have to stay FIREd before the living proof becomes obvious enough that they admit it?

[forummm]

A relative, who lives somewhere it doesn't rain, just bought a raincoat for $300. It was a great deal because it was on sale from $600.

[Syonyk]

Wow!!! She "saved" $300!!!

You know, with deals like that, the more you spend, the more you save!!!

**sigh**

I have to admit, whoever first figured that phrase out was a marketing genius.

[forummm]

Another relative bought a polo shirt in person for $110. He didn't bother trying it on. It didn't fit. It wasn't returned.

[forummm]

Not financial related, but worth a post:

A relative was standing in a subway station, underground, having taken a super long escalator down about 5 stories, and said "The Metro doesn't go underground".

[irishbear99]

After all these years, MLM has finally found its way into my family. :(

Sis-in-law started with a company (that shall remain nameless for anonimity's sake) a few months ago. Surprisingly, she hasnt been pushy at all. She's offered me samples exactly once, and apart from that, any time we talk about her new business it's simply talking about work, the same way I would talk about a day at my work. Sounds as good as one can expect from MLM, right?

Cue my mother, who has decided she's going to become a part of SIL's "team", and is now bugging me to become part of her "team." For a product I don't use. Despite the fact I have a full-time, successful career that takes up most of my free time. Despite the fact I've never expressed an interest in sales.

She wanted to make sure she asked me first. You know, so she can exploit money from me instead of SIL. I'm tempted to tell SIL just to stir a little drama. I've resisted so far.

So far...

[tofuchampion]

I don't think it was intentional. It might be worth saying that birth control pills are contraindicated for her because we have a family history of blood clots. I have an IUD, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were just using condoms or something.

I don't think of her as stupid and selfish, just naive. She also lets her husband make all the decisions (more religion there, yay!), and he is absolutely stupid and selfish.

Definitely not intentional! Turns out she's about 5 months along and just found out. So there's that.

[Squirrel away]

OMG, I've been laughing at some of these stories.:) I gnash my teeth at the behaviour of some other people I know.

My husband's sibling has been given two big "loans" (that she never paid back) from their father twice now and she is still in debt. The father is now paying for her to live in her house, paying off her normal monthly bills and credit card bills. She is in her mid fifties.

[gogo419]

After all these years, MLM has finally found its way into my family. :(

Sis-in-law started with a company (that shall remain nameless for anonimity's sake) a few months ago. Surprisingly, she hasnt been pushy at all. She's offered me samples exactly once, and apart from that, any time we talk about her new business it's simply talking about work, the same way I would talk about a day at my work. Sounds as good as one can expect from MLM, right?

Cue my mother, who has decided she's going to become a part of SIL's "team", and is now bugging me to become part of her "team." For a product I don't use. Despite the fact I have a full-time, successful career that takes up most of my free time. Despite the fact I've never expressed an interest in sales.

She wanted to make sure she asked me first. You know, so she can exploit money from me instead of SIL. I'm tempted to tell SIL just to stir a little drama. I've resisted so far.

So far...

the joys of herbalife?? That company should have been shutdown!

[kib]

They're free to. And i should be free to not pay for their freedom of choice.
They didn't ask any advice. They probably should have.
I absolutely think sterilization should be an option here. Tie your tubes or be cut off from medicaid. Public assistance is to get you back on your feet, not a lifelong handout to pay for your poor decisions.

You don't have kids intentionally if you can't afford it. Married, churchy, non-birth control using people ABSOLUTELY know what will happen if they continue to have sex. This child is a CHOICE. A CHOICE that they KNEW they couldn't afford. To me, this is just as disgusting as neglect.

It absolutely is her place to tell them they are wrong. They need to stop burying their heads in the sand and provide for what they have before they accept the responsibility for more.  Who better to bring that up than someone that loves them? It sounds like a tough conversation, but one that i have had with 2 friends and 1 cousin.

While there's nothing that can be done legally to stop them from continuing, I feel it is morally disgusting and irresponsible. Do you see it any other way ?

I'm not in favor of much more breeding, period. Beyond the financial burden to all of us when people have kids they can't afford, seriously, seven billion miracles is enough.  But what exactly are you suggesting she say?  Hi, just wanted to stop by and tell you I think you should get an abortion?  Probably not the most useful conversation.