Relatives who just don't get it

[Waylander]

Wasn't sure where to park this rant but I didn't think it warranted a new thread so:

Uncle and wife divorced when kids were ~8, 10. Uncle and ex-wife were extremely spendy and lost their house prior to the divorce moved in with my grandpa and grandma. Post-divorce, ex-wife did not want to take the children, so they stayed with my uncle in my grandpa's and grandma's (small) house.

Ex-wife and uncle then both neglect all parental duties for many, many years. They didn't bother with basics of imparting values or matters and didn't bother making sure kids did their homework or go to school. Schools would call my mother who would do her best but would often be met with "you're not my mom, you can't tell me what to do"-type defiance. In lieu of being actual parents, they give a lot of money to their children - these kids have always been getting the biggest and best gadgets and toys without having to work for anything. They also continue with their very spendy lifestyles. Kids grow up having zero concepts of the value of money / how hard you have to work to earn money.

Older kid who is now 18 grew up with a lot of issues and got expelled from several schools for lack of attendance. He now only holds a minimum primary-school qualification (the one you get when you're 12). Ex-wife gives him money to do ridiculous things like visit his overseas girlfriend and buy the girlfriend gifts. As far as I know, older kid has never worked a day in his life and often just plays computer games in his room and only emerges to eat, shower, and be a dick to my grandma. (Grandpa has passed away; uncle is almost never home and has taken the whole "it's their life; their problem if they mess up" attitude towards raising his children. Absolutely infuriating.) Older kid is now trying to defer his 2 year mandatory army stint - and has no plans whatsoever for the future. As usual, uncle is doing nothing. Ex-wife still constantly providing financial assistance.

Thankfully, younger kid who is now 16 is determined not to grow up like his brother and is actually making an effort both in school and also has a part-time job to get experience with computers and to have spending money. We're pretty proud of younger kid for having a brain to think for himself.

I have spoken to both my parents and have made it absolutely clear that I will in no circumstances be giving or "lending" any money to the older kid when his parents pass on and he has no life skills to survive on his own. My parents thankfully agree.

[TomTX]

On the ring foam...

Spend $50 on a CZ. 95% of people won't know the difference.

Or don't, and tell them to shove it because you don't value yourself based on what they think of you, but rather what you think of yourself.

MrsTX now has a lab grown sapphire set in a sterling ring. Beautiful, durable - and she doesn't worry about it, so she wears it. Roughly the same size as a 2 carat diamond, flawless. Total cost was about $20 on Amazon.

It's the marriage that lasts for life, not the engagement.

ABSOLUTELY!

There's an amazing couple that hosts the Bible study I go to, they are clearly affluent as they own a remodeling company, own a few rentals and have two more coming to market this year with tenants lined up (bought a dilapated townhouse and gutted it and are working to get it ready for inspection by the end of the month). A few weeks ago his wife showed me her ring and mentioned, "This is an updated from what he gave me when he proposed," and then proudly mentioned, "I got it for $100 a few years ago, when he proposed the ring was maybe $15, but we didn't have much then." I wanted to hug her I loved this story so much.

But that's even crazier! If it's an "updated" ring then it's not an engagement ring, it's just some ring.

For our 20th anniversary, MrsTX and I got new bands. Tungsten carbide, gorgeous. Also were.... $20 (each) on Amazon. I wear it a lot more than my fancy gold band. No worries about damaging it - this is a really tough material.

[Taran Wanderer]

We spent a lot on our wedding and honeymoon. Very non-mustachian, all cash, and very worth it.  With so much going out already, I got a sterling silver wedding band for twenty bucks.  It served the immediate need and was something we wouldn't have to worry about while backpacking through Europe on the honeymoon. We planned to upgrade later.  It's nine years later now. Still wearing my $20 sterling silver wedding band.  No plans to upgrade.

[rockstache]

On the ring foam...

Spend $50 on a CZ. 95% of people won't know the difference.

Or don't, and tell them to shove it because you don't value yourself based on what they think of you, but rather what you think of yourself.

MrsTX now has a lab grown sapphire set in a sterling ring. Beautiful, durable - and she doesn't worry about it, so she wears it. Roughly the same size as a 2 carat diamond, flawless. Total cost was about $20 on Amazon.

I really want something similar to this! Do you have a link? I've always just been afraid of my finger turning green.

[mm1970]

A guy I used to work with claimed he knew someone who upon getting divorced proceeded to sell off all his worldly possessions for next to nothing.  Then he took a job as a chef in a hotel and basically just worked for room and board.  What little he got paid was under the table.  So he was destitute just so that he wouldn't have to pay his ex-wife alimony.
I don't know if that is urban legend or what but talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Oh this definitely happens. I've spent a lot of time in divorce court. Multiple cases of men who will immediately quit their jobs when they split from their wives and try to take low-paying jobs so they don't have to pay spousal support. However, in my state, the amount of spousal support you pay can be based on your expected income, meaning that if you had a job making $100,000 for 10 years in a row and when you split up you intentionally take a job paying $50,000, the amount you pay in spousal support will be based on your $100,000 income because it's obvious that you can make that amount of money and are (often) choosing not to. Most people don't realize this and then are left wide-eyed and shitting themselves in court when they get slapped with a huge spousal support bill. Not going to lie, it can be quite humorous in a vindictive way when you know the person took the lower paying job to be a jerk.

It kind of backfires for MMM's, you know?

Let's imagine that you and your spouse are not together on the whole "FIRE" idea.  After several years of saving money, you have had it with the work grind, and move to FIRE.  She / he divorces you over your laziness (and communication styles, obviously).   You fully expected to split the retirement funds savings 50 / 50 in the divorce... but then are also on the hook for alimony because you have the ability to work $100k/yr but just choose not to....   

I am certain some judges will look at total income, and not the fact that you had a savings rate of 50% when calculating that spousal support, too.

A friend of mine got divorced.  Husband was supposed to pay for child support, but often didn't.   She had primary custody, he got every other weekend and some holidays...that sort of thing (kids are in their 20s now).  She'd worked part time while married and upped it to full time after the divorce.  Husband left town and started a business.

So ex-husband takes the kids on a 2 week vacation.  Asks her first because it's his week AND her week with the kids.  She says okay.  When he comes back, he presents her with a bill for the second week.  She laughs and refuses to pay.  This was YOUR vacation bud.  He takes her to small claims court.

So, small claims court, first thing the judge asks is "is he supposed to pay child support?"  "Yes".  "Is he in arrears?"  "Yes".  The judge opens up a family court case for her right there and then, and denies him payment on the vacation.

So, since he's a business owner, and makes quarterly tax payments to the IRS, the IRS turned his pre-paid tax payments for the year over to her for child support.  Then he still owed the IRS.

What a dummy.

[mustachepungoeshere]

A friend of mine got divorced.  Husband was supposed to pay for child support, but often didn't.   She had primary custody, he got every other weekend and some holidays...that sort of thing (kids are in their 20s now).  She'd worked part time while married and upped it to full time after the divorce.  Husband left town and started a business.

So ex-husband takes the kids on a 2 week vacation.  Asks her first because it's his week AND her week with the kids.  She says okay.  When he comes back, he presents her with a bill for the second week.  She laughs and refuses to pay.  This was YOUR vacation bud.  He takes her to small claims court.

So, small claims court, first thing the judge asks is "is he supposed to pay child support?"  "Yes".  "Is he in arrears?"  "Yes".  The judge opens up a family court case for her right there and then, and denies him payment on the vacation.

So, since he's a business owner, and makes quarterly tax payments to the IRS, the IRS turned his pre-paid tax payments for the year over to her for child support.  Then he still owed the IRS.

What a dummy.

ಠ_ಠ

[Sydneystache]

For our 20th anniversary, MrsTX and I got new bands. Tungsten carbide, gorgeous. Also were.... $20 (each) on Amazon. I wear it a lot more than my fancy gold band. No worries about damaging it - this is a really tough material.

We were going to get titanium rings because of their toughness...but, being really tough material, the emergency departments here really find it difficult to take them off or cut them off with bolt cutters. One surgeon had to order a laser to remove a ring.

So with that in mind, we have stuck to traditional sterling silver and white gold.

[Taran Wanderer]

I dislocated my left ring finger once - with my wedding band still on it and "upstream" of the dislocation.  Totally freaked me out.  I couldn't pop it back in, and we headed toward the hospital.  The shred of hope that I clung to was that my cheap, silver wedding band would be easy to cut off when I got to the ER.

Once I got there (and the admitting secretary and the ER nurse turned green at the sight of my finger), I relaxed while the ER doc pulled, and it popped right back into place.  The the doc easily slipped my ring off over the previously dislocated joint, so I didn't get to see how easily a silver band comes off.  After that, no tungsten-carbide wedding band for me.  I'm sticking with something soft.

[mustachepungoeshere]

When I first showed my MiL my engagement ring, about a week after her son proposed, she raved about it for a minute then said, "And when you get sick of it in 20 years, you can get it remade!"

MiL had her engagement ring remade (and added two large diamonds for three in total) for their 25th anniversary. Then, within a month, she decided she needed another ring for that hand to complement it.

The worst reaction to an engagement ring I've heard was a family friend who met her future MiL the week before the wedding. MiL examined the ring and said, "Well, I suppose anything looks good on young hands."

[Sylly]

For our 20th anniversary, MrsTX and I got new bands. Tungsten carbide, gorgeous. Also were.... $20 (each) on Amazon. I wear it a lot more than my fancy gold band. No worries about damaging it - this is a really tough material.

We were going to get titanium rings because of their toughness...but, being really tough material, the emergency departments here really find it difficult to take them off or cut them off with bolt cutters. One surgeon had to order a laser to remove a ring.

So with that in mind, we have stuck to traditional sterling silver and white gold.

Just in case you're not aware, keep in mind that Tungsten Carbide rings can and do break or shatter. So don't think of it as indestructible. That, and the fact we can't resize them is why DH and I opted for gold even though we both like the look of the Tungsten Carbide stuff.

[Kitsune]

Neighbor, not a relative, but head-banging nonetheless.

So, imagine you're in your mid 60s. You retire, at a traditional age, from a job as a schoolteacher. You sell your house in Toronto for a tidy profit. What do you do? Where do you chose to live?

Well, if you're this woman, you move to a small town in Quebec with a non-starter real estate scene (a lot of houses people bought in the 90s and now want to sell, but they stay on the market for 4-5 years). You build a freakin' ginormous house. The ginormous house (Ok, about 3K square feet over 3 full floors, not THAT ginormous by other standards, I suppose - but she lives alone and has no kids. That's 3K sq ft for one person) MUST have a long flight of stairs to get in the house, and, really, you should put your bedroom and bathroom on the top floor because "the view is better" (and lady, I hope your hips are doing GREAT when you're in your late 70s, 'cause that trek is gonna suck otherwise, and that house won't sell quckly if you need it to). Oh, and make sure you make the workers re-hang the window 4 times "to make sure they're the right hight for the view", as well as other stupid re-do-the-work requests that they'll charge you for, which cause you to run out of money (from a Toronto house sale. HOW.) before being able to put in kitchen cupboards. Those go in a year later.

Then, proceed to interact with the locals as if you're a benevolant big city Lady (capital L) come to bring culture to the yokels - god knows THAT condescending attitude works GREAT to make those friends you were hoping to make. Ahem. Also, lady, we're 45 km away from a city with a university. The 'yokels' include 2 editors for literary journals, some university professors, business people, musicians, retired folk... please, do come to bring us culture. *grinds teeth*

Oh, and then whine that country people are SO closed off and that we're not coming to visit because we're jealous of your oh-so-gorgeous house. Right. That's the way to make friends.

Just go AWAY.

[onlykelsey]

Neighbor, not a relative, but head-banging nonetheless.

So, imagine you're in your mid 60s. You retire, at a traditional age, from a job as a schoolteacher. You sell your house in Toronto for a tidy profit. What do you do? Where do you chose to live?

Well, if you're this woman, you move to a small town in Quebec with a non-starter real estate scene (a lot of houses people bought in the 90s and now want to sell, but they stay on the market for 4-5 years). You build a freakin' ginormous house. The ginormous house (Ok, about 3K square feet over 3 full floors, not THAT ginormous by other standards, I suppose - but she lives alone and has no kids. That's 3K sq ft for one person) MUST have a long flight of stairs to get in the house, and, really, you should put your bedroom and bathroom on the top floor because "the view is better" (and lady, I hope your hips are doing GREAT when you're in your late 70s, 'cause that trek is gonna suck otherwise, and that house won't sell quckly if you need it to). Oh, and make sure you make the workers re-hang the window 4 times "to make sure they're the right hight for the view", as well as other stupid re-do-the-work requests that they'll charge you for, which cause you to run out of money (from a Toronto house sale. HOW.) before being able to put in kitchen cupboards. Those go in a year later.

Then, proceed to interact with the locals as if you're a benevolant big city Lady (capital L) come to bring culture to the yokels - god knows THAT condescending attitude works GREAT to make those friends you were hoping to make. Ahem. Also, lady, we're 45 km away from a city with a university. The 'yokels' include 2 editors for literary journals, some university professors, business people, musicians, retired folk... please, do come to bring us culture. *grinds teeth*

Oh, and then whine that country people are SO closed off and that we're not coming to visit because we're jealous of your oh-so-gorgeous house. Right. That's the way to make friends.

Just go AWAY.

I have never understood the inability to imagine yourself aging.  I bought my walk-up apartment the summer I turned 27, and I immediately thought about whether the average 57 year old was going to be wild about two flights of narrow stairs.

[rockstache]

When I first showed my MiL my engagement ring, about a week after her son proposed, she raved about it for a minute then said, "And when you get sick of it in 20 years, you can get it remade!"

MiL had her engagement ring remade (and added two large diamonds for three in total) for their 25th anniversary. Then, within a month, she decided she needed another ring for that hand to complement it.

The worst reaction to an engagement ring I've heard was a family friend who met her future MiL the week before the wedding. MiL examined the ring and said, "Well, I suppose anything looks good on young hands."

Wait...she insulted her own son's choice of ring, or this was supposed to be some kind of backhanded insult to the future DIL? I don't think I would even be upset at that. It's just weird.

[mtn]

When I first showed my MiL my engagement ring, about a week after her son proposed, she raved about it for a minute then said, "And when you get sick of it in 20 years, you can get it remade!"

MiL had her engagement ring remade (and added two large diamonds for three in total) for their 25th anniversary. Then, within a month, she decided she needed another ring for that hand to complement it.

The worst reaction to an engagement ring I've heard was a family friend who met her future MiL the week before the wedding. MiL examined the ring and said, "Well, I suppose anything looks good on young hands."

Wait...she insulted her own son's choice of ring, or this was supposed to be some kind of backhanded insult to the future DIL? I don't think I would even be upset at that. It's just weird.

If you're just meeting the in-laws the week before the wedding, the SO probably kept you from them for a reason.

[mm1970]

When I first showed my MiL my engagement ring, about a week after her son proposed, she raved about it for a minute then said, "And when you get sick of it in 20 years, you can get it remade!"

MiL had her engagement ring remade (and added two large diamonds for three in total) for their 25th anniversary. Then, within a month, she decided she needed another ring for that hand to complement it.

The worst reaction to an engagement ring I've heard was a family friend who met her future MiL the week before the wedding. MiL examined the ring and said, "Well, I suppose anything looks good on young hands."

Our 20th anniversary is this week, and someone at work asked me if my spouse was going to get me a big fat diamond.  I laughed because I don't even wear my engagement ring, just my wedding band.  Buying more jewelry would be throwing money away.

[mustachepungoeshere]

Last year my aunt subdivided her large block and sold off a piece of land to her son and his wife.

My aunt sold them the land for less than market rate, and the family lived with her rent-free while they built a house for their family of four.

So to make the most of this leg up in the world, they of course built more house than they could afford, and my aunt has been paying their mortgage for months.

(Apparently they were only partway into the build when they realised they wouldn't be able to afford the repayments. They still finished everything according to standard they had in mind, rather than saving on fittings and furniture.)

They've decided to sell the house and move about 30km away "to save money". He would have to drive to their original town for work, and his wife has already said she would drive the kids to school every day.

He works. She has been a SAHM for six years but their youngest will start school next year. I assumed she would be making plans to go back to work next year, and they could easily cut their spending, but apparently she has no plans to do either.

[dz1087]

Sage house advice, like 'buy more than you think you can afford.' Thanks mom.

I actually tell this to the lower-ranking guys in my unit all the time, but its always for TSP.

"put in 1 or 2 percentage points more than you think you can afford, and then up that by 1% each quarter"


IDK if any of them have ever listened to me, but damn - if I had gotten that advice when I was their age I'd have 5x what I have in there now...

[ender]

My sibling just bought a condo since "renting is fiscally irresponsible" and is putting something less than 5% down, which results in his mortgage/insurance/condo fees/taxes being equal to our new mortgage for a house, except since we put 20% down the actual cost of our house vs the condo is something more than 1.5x as much. Apparently we can save for a downpayment since we're married (in spite of the fact that my wife has been a grad student since before we got married and is currently recently graduated and job searching). Not because both our cars combined are about 1/4 their truck and we don't blow money on all sorts of things..

At least they will be able to rent a room out or something? It has the makings of "likely trainwreck" all over it, though I don't think it will be as spectacular as most that people can post here. More likely just a slow burn on finances

[erae]

The best investment my SIL ever made was to pay my husband's fees for his professional exams. He comes from a humble family and feels a deep debt to her for contributing to his education, and I don't disagree with him. Once we began earning decent money, though, we became the family's emergency line. We had no interest in becoming the Family Foundation, so we set up a manageable monthly contribution schedule with my MIL, who manages the family finances fairly well. I felt this "paying it forward" solution would compensare my SIL for her help while empowering my MIL to feel more secure in the family financies by adding another predictable income stream. After all, my SIL and her husband are the only other DINK couple in the family - they don't need our help as much as the rest of the family. Problem was, my SIL continued to hit us up for $$ for car repairs, expenses she incurred as a result of her own over-spending during an international business trip, etc. and my husband had a tough time saying no to her. When I asked my husband when he would feel that we had repaid his debt to my SIL and he couldn't articulate an amount, I became concerned. I pointed out that we shared one vehicle and owned no property while she and my BIL were purchasing a 2nd house and rolling around town in two SUVs. Our weekends were filled with work and Netflix while their Facebook pages were filled with weekend trips to the beach. Finally, they hit us up for help on the down payment of their 2nd home. My husband and I agreed that 2k towards their house would leave us "even" though I had concerns that he might still have trouble setting boundaries with her. Thankfully, on his next visit home to attend to some legal matters (I didn't accompany him) he noticed my SIL's chest was a bit larger and perkier. Sure enough, she had gotten a boob job several months back. Thankfully, my husband came home feeling confident that this 2k would be the last money we give my SIL barring some find of terrible health emergency.  I never thought I'd find so much peace in paying for another woman's boob job, but it was just what my husband needed to draw boundaries with my SIL.

[taylord]

We grew up in northern Alberta, the heart of oil country in Canada. My brother drops out of high school and goes to work in the patch, because when Oil is booming, the money just rolls in, and an unskilled 16 y/o can easily make 40-60k or more with overtime. Despite that, living with our parents on and off, and increasing his income when he got his class 1 and started driving a picker, he spent everything he made. On a string of vehicles, vehicle modifications, speeding tickets, nights out, toys, whatever, who knows, he probably doesn't.

Now he's 22, oil is in a bust, he's laid off, working a lower wage job building houses (general labour, since no trade), and he doesn't really have anything to show for all that money. Yesterday he texted me about the new furniture him and GF got for their new place (renting from GF's fam) at 1/2 off, and on Kijiji. And I was like, that's great, keep doing that! But then, he says they need a new TV (Their's is 4 years old) and I asked why, but they "NEED" a TV for their bedroom, so they "HAVE" to find something on sale for around $1000, that's one of those smart TVs...

That being said, he's pretty hardworking, and actually quite good with cars. He fixes/adds/maintains everything himself, it's just frustrating watching him do nothing but consume.

[BDWW]

We grew up in northern Alberta, the heart of oil country in Canada. My brother drops out of high school and goes to work in the patch, because when Oil is booming, the money just rolls in, and an unskilled 16 y/o can easily make 40-60k or more with overtime. Despite that, living with our parents on and off, and increasing his income when he got his class 1 and started driving a picker, he spent everything he made. On a string of vehicles, vehicle modifications, speeding tickets, nights out, toys, whatever, who knows, he probably doesn't.

Now he's 22, oil is in a bust, he's laid off, working a lower wage job building houses (general labour, since no trade), and he doesn't really have anything to show for all that money. Yesterday he texted me about the new furniture him and GF got for their new place (renting from GF's fam) at 1/2 off, and on Kijiji. And I was like, that's great, keep doing that! But then, he says they need a new TV (Their's is 4 years old) and I asked why, but they "NEED" a TV for their bedroom, so they "HAVE" to find something on sale for around $1000, that's one of those smart TVs...

That being said, he's pretty hardworking, and actually quite good with cars. He fixes/adds/maintains everything himself, it's just frustrating watching him do nothing but consume.

My BIL is the same way. He's been working in ND for the past 5 years(still has a job, as he's hardworking and competent). For at least a couple years he's made more than my wife and I combined. It's alarming trying to figure out what he's used the money for. He does have a big jacked up Dodge, and a used crotch rocket, but hasn't even really acquired many toys. But I suppose the bartenders and strippers are making bank...

[taylord]

We grew up in northern Alberta, the heart of oil country in Canada. My brother drops out of high school and goes to work in the patch, because when Oil is booming, the money just rolls in, and an unskilled 16 y/o can easily make 40-60k or more with overtime. Despite that, living with our parents on and off, and increasing his income when he got his class 1 and started driving a picker, he spent everything he made. On a string of vehicles, vehicle modifications, speeding tickets, nights out, toys, whatever, who knows, he probably doesn't.

Now he's 22, oil is in a bust, he's laid off, working a lower wage job building houses (general labour, since no trade), and he doesn't really have anything to show for all that money. Yesterday he texted me about the new furniture him and GF got for their new place (renting from GF's fam) at 1/2 off, and on Kijiji. And I was like, that's great, keep doing that! But then, he says they need a new TV (Their's is 4 years old) and I asked why, but they "NEED" a TV for their bedroom, so they "HAVE" to find something on sale for around $1000, that's one of those smart TVs...

That being said, he's pretty hardworking, and actually quite good with cars. He fixes/adds/maintains everything himself, it's just frustrating watching him do nothing but consume.

My BIL is the same way. He's been working in ND for the past 5 years(still has a job, as he's hardworking and competent). For at least a couple years he's made more than my wife and I combined. It's alarming trying to figure out what he's used the money for. He does have a big jacked up Dodge, and a used crotch rocket, but hasn't even really acquired many toys. But I suppose the bartenders and strippers are making bank...

Haha I know, I was trying to calculate how much he's probably made, and he probably could have semi-retired if he had invested it

[Guava]

I have a cousin that had a baby last year while she was still a teenager. At least she managed to graduate high school even though she spent most of it pregnant. And her SO has stuck around, which we didn't expect. They had been living together during her senior year in an apartment and he had a decent security job. When the baby was born, they moved in with her mom (who was a single mom with a low income and notoriously bad with money). I find out a few months later they have paid her $0 for living there and he was fired from his job. He now refuses to work. She has been refusing to work since she was 6 months pregnant, and my low income aunt is on disability for a neck injury that occurred a few weeks after the baby was born. My cousin and her SO do nothing for the child, leaving it all to my aunt who supposedly could be paralyzed by picking up more than 5lbs.  Meanwhile they dress the baby in name brand only and new clothes only and Nike shoes. Their house is a disaster because no one cleans it and there isn't even room for the baby to try to start crawling or play. She has 5 diaper bags, one of which is Coach and one that is Victoria's Secret. Meanwhile, most of the family justifies her behavior because she never had a dad growing up and that somehow means she can do whatever she wants and still be the family favorite (if you sense jealousy...that is because there is. I got very sick near the time she gave birth and waited to notify people until a few days later and was accused of taking her happy moment away...because I wanted to be deathly ill, apparently.)

I just found out they are inviting 100 people to the baby's first birthday. That's more people than I am having at my wedding. They are asking family to help throw the party such as purchasing the cake and the food. They will do the decorations only. And this is why I screen their phone calls. That child is going to have a rough life ahead of him if things keep up this way.

[marion10]

Oh- where to start. My sister's finances have always been a mess. Her husband works in sales and makes a good income- but for many years he was on commission- and had no taxes withheld. They would get these large lump sums and never put aside anything for taxes and then miss their quarterly payments and have to pay huge penalties. At one time they had two drivers and four vehicles- and yes, one was a truck.
They bought a huge house and the second day they owned it took out a home equity loan- some went for taxes- but also for a horse trailer, horses, hunting dogs, etc.
Eventually they ended up filing for bankruptcy and a payment plan with the IRS (because taxes are not discharged ). The day after they filed, the family of 4 took a vacation to Cancun because it was so stressful!

[economista]

My younger sister is 20 and dropped out of community college after about a month of taking classes.  She actually has a decent job now making $15 per hour and working overtime most weeks, but she lives at home with my mom and is completely hopeless when it comes to finances - she doesn't pay any rent or living expenses yet still runs out of money before her next paycheck and has $0 in savings.  Last week she had car trouble on the way to work and that night she posted pictures on facebook of a brand new Kia Forte that she said she bought.  My reaction was to yell at the computer because who in their right mind would give her a loan for a brand new car when she had $0 to put down on it (ignoring how stupid buying a new car on credit is anyway)?!  Plus, the addition of a large car payment + higher insurance + taxes, etc., would be a burden for her since she can barely make ends meet now.  The next morning I was vindicated when she posted on facebook that "Life is totally unfair and nothing ever works out".  I sent her a text to ask what was going on and I tried to be a caring, supportive big sister when she said that they approved her for the car the night before but couldn't finish the paperwork because it was too late.  When she arrived the next morning they told her she wasn't approved and didn't let her take the car.  Later that afternoon I called my mom to give some advice about helping her find a car that she could use to get to and from work and my mom told me what was really going on with her finances.  They were so much worse than I could've imagined.  Apparently when she went to college she took out a $500 student loan and after dropping out they put her on a payment plan of $50 per month.  She paid the bill for 5 months and then stopped paying, and has been in default for $250 flipping dollars for almost 2 freaking years!!!  In addition to that, around the same time she got a cell phone plan with AT&T and financed an iphone through them (without putting a single dollar down) and then never made a single payment, so she owes them $1000 that has been sitting in collections for 2 years.  To top it all off, she still owes $3000 on her previous car (the one that broke down) but in its current condition it is only worth $1000 trade-in value and she doesn't have any money to fix it or to pay the difference.  All of this together has given her a credit score of only 520!!! I sent my sister a text that night saying that I know she is having trouble with budgeting and paying her debts and that I am here to help her.  I said that I am a budget genius and I would be more than willing to sit down with her and help her set up mint, a budget, and a plan for paying off all of her debt.  Her response was that she found another dealership to approve her for a loan so she got a car (2013 Mazda 2 Sport for $8000, plus the $2000 she was underwater added to it, at 17.4% interest) and she had a plan for paying all of her bills, so she didn't need any help from me.  On the bright side she did say "Thank you, though it really means a lot that you want to help me."  smdh

[mm1970]

I have a cousin that had a baby last year while she was still a teenager. At least she managed to graduate high school even though she spent most of it pregnant. And her SO has stuck around, which we didn't expect. They had been living together during her senior year in an apartment and he had a decent security job. When the baby was born, they moved in with her mom (who was a single mom with a low income and notoriously bad with money). I find out a few months later they have paid her $0 for living there and he was fired from his job. He now refuses to work. She has been refusing to work since she was 6 months pregnant, and my low income aunt is on disability for a neck injury that occurred a few weeks after the baby was born. My cousin and her SO do nothing for the child, leaving it all to my aunt who supposedly could be paralyzed by picking up more than 5lbs.  Meanwhile they dress the baby in name brand only and new clothes only and Nike shoes. Their house is a disaster because no one cleans it and there isn't even room for the baby to try to start crawling or play. She has 5 diaper bags, one of which is Coach and one that is Victoria's Secret. Meanwhile, most of the family justifies her behavior because she never had a dad growing up and that somehow means she can do whatever she wants and still be the family favorite (if you sense jealousy...that is because there is. I got very sick near the time she gave birth and waited to notify people until a few days later and was accused of taking her happy moment away...because I wanted to be deathly ill, apparently.)

I just found out they are inviting 100 people to the baby's first birthday. That's more people than I am having at my wedding. They are asking family to help throw the party such as purchasing the cake and the food. They will do the decorations only. And this is why I screen their phone calls. That child is going to have a rough life ahead of him if things keep up this way.

Oy, are we related?  Actually I had a similar convo with my big sister...her husband's sister's kid is doing exactly the same thing.  It's pretty horrible. But hubby's sister allows it to happen, they live with her.

On a positive note, I have a cousin who got pregnant in HS.  Stayed with the dad, lived at home with her widowed mom (who helped with child care), went to the local college.  Eventually got married...

Fast forward 20 years later. Her kid is on full scholarship for engineering at a state university.  She finished college, got a PhD in physics, applied to be an astronaut (hasn't made it...yet), and is still happily married.

[kayvent]

We grew up in northern Alberta, the heart of oil country in Canada. My brother drops out of high school and goes to work in the patch, because when Oil is booming, the money just rolls in, and an unskilled 16 y/o can easily make 40-60k or more with overtime. Despite that, living with our parents on and off, and increasing his income when he got his class 1 and started driving a picker, he spent everything he made. On a string of vehicles, vehicle modifications, speeding tickets, nights out, toys, whatever, who knows, he probably doesn't.

Now he's 22, oil is in a bust, he's laid off, working a lower wage job building houses (general labour, since no trade), and he doesn't really have anything to show for all that money. Yesterday he texted me about the new furniture him and GF got for their new place (renting from GF's fam) at 1/2 off, and on Kijiji. And I was like, that's great, keep doing that! But then, he says they need a new TV (Their's is 4 years old) and I asked why, but they "NEED" a TV for their bedroom, so they "HAVE" to find something on sale for around $1000, that's one of those smart TVs...

That being said, he's pretty hardworking, and actually quite good with cars. He fixes/adds/maintains everything himself, it's just frustrating watching him do nothing but consume.

On the off chance you can convince him otherwise....one can pick up a lower-end TV for 300$ or even a great one from Kjiji and depending on the needs get something like an Apple TV to emulate or surpass the "smart" functionalities of a Smart TV. 500$ savings......

If one can't convince another to be fiscally responsible, one might as well help them to spend their money better.

[BlueHouse]

I have never understood the inability to imagine yourself aging.  I bought my walk-up apartment the summer I turned 27, and I immediately thought about whether the average 57 year old was going to be wild about two flights of narrow stairs.

I bought my 4-story row house at age 44.  I WANT to make my joints keep working hard.  I'm hoping that forcing myself up and down those stairs multiple times per day will delay the onset of arthritis that seems to run in my family.  I also took all the chairs out of the room with a TV in it, so I am forced to sit on the floor (or a really low futon-type thing). 
I'll let you know in another few years if it's working or not.

[TomTX]

On the ring foam...

Spend $50 on a CZ. 95% of people won't know the difference.

Or don't, and tell them to shove it because you don't value yourself based on what they think of you, but rather what you think of yourself.

MrsTX now has a lab grown sapphire set in a sterling ring. Beautiful, durable - and she doesn't worry about it, so she wears it. Roughly the same size as a 2 carat diamond, flawless. Total cost was about $20 on Amazon.

I really want something similar to this! Do you have a link? I've always just been afraid of my finger turning green.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00R93XRK6

Price varies a few bucks depending on various things (size, color, phase of the moon, other randomness)

[ender]

Keep in mind if you get a big stone that is lab made, it will look so much better than the equivalent diamond that you have to worry about it being too gaudy looking.

We did moissanite and it's beautiful. But had we gone with a 1+ carat stone I think it might have gone into gaudy territory, because the quality is so much higher than equivalent carat diamonds.

[TomTX]

For our 20th anniversary, MrsTX and I got new bands. Tungsten carbide, gorgeous. Also were.... $20 (each) on Amazon. I wear it a lot more than my fancy gold band. No worries about damaging it - this is a really tough material.

We were going to get titanium rings because of their toughness...but, being really tough material, the emergency departments here really find it difficult to take them off or cut them off with bolt cutters. One surgeon had to order a laser to remove a ring.

So with that in mind, we have stuck to traditional sterling silver and white gold.

Just in case you're not aware, keep in mind that Tungsten Carbide rings can and do break or shatter. So don't think of it as indestructible. That, and the fact we can't resize them is why DH and I opted for gold even though we both like the look of the Tungsten Carbide stuff.

Ha, I could buy a lot of $20 rings for what you probably paid for the gold ones. Resizing up is often free with gold if it can be stretched. Resizing down is likely to cost more than a new $20 ring.

I'm also amused by the conflicting views of OMG you can never get if off in an emergency and OMG it can shatter easily enough to be concerned!

[Mesmoiselle]

Today I was discussing with my MIL, who lives with us, a future renovation of my kitchen (that I've put off 3 years so far). She suddenly asks if I'll be getting a new refrigerator. I sputter, confused, then finally just ask,

"Why would I do that?."

"Because it's old."

"But it works."

"Well... I guess I just would really like an ice maker."

"I'm not buying a new fridge just so you can have an ice maker. The ice trays are also fully functional."

@_@

[mustachepungoeshere]

Today I was discussing with my MIL, who lives with us, a future renovation of my kitchen (that I've put off 3 years so far). She suddenly asks if I'll be getting a new refrigerator. I sputter, confused, then finally just ask,

"Why would I do that?."

"Because it's old."

"But it works."

"Well... I guess I just would really like an ice maker."

"I'm not buying a new fridge just so you can have an ice maker. The ice trays are also fully functional."

@_@

"Feel free to pay for it."

- My response to my BiL when he comments - every time he visits - on how small our TV is and how we should buy a new one.

[cavewoman]

For our 20th anniversary, MrsTX and I got new bands. Tungsten carbide, gorgeous. Also were.... $20 (each) on Amazon. I wear it a lot more than my fancy gold band. No worries about damaging it - this is a really tough material.

We were going to get titanium rings because of their toughness...but, being really tough material, the emergency departments here really find it difficult to take them off or cut them off with bolt cutters. One surgeon had to order a laser to remove a ring.

So with that in mind, we have stuck to traditional sterling silver and white gold.

Just in case you're not aware, keep in mind that Tungsten Carbide rings can and do break or shatter. So don't think of it as indestructible. That, and the fact we can't resize them is why DH and I opted for gold even though we both like the look of the Tungsten Carbide stuff.

Ha, I could buy a lot of $20 rings for what you probably paid for the gold ones. Resizing up is often free with gold if it can be stretched. Resizing down is likely to cost more than a new $20 ring.

I'm also amused by the conflicting views of OMG you can never get if off in an emergency and OMG it can shatter easily enough to be concerned!

Well the titanium ring is the one that ER docs need a special tool to get off,
While a tungsten carbide ring will shatter.
2 different metals, not conflicting views :)

We went with a silicone ring for my husband. He's a welder and fabricator and it is the safest option for him.
. . . .
On topic:
My SIL has been unemployed for months, but still posts about taking her 2 kids to the movies like every friday night! I love the kids, of course, and wouldn't want them to miss out on fun in life, but cmon, try the matinee? There are plenty of other stories re: my two SILs, but I'm on my phone so I'll keep it brief.

[wenchsenior]

Oh- where to start. My sister's finances have always been a mess. Her husband works in sales and makes a good income- but for many years he was on commission- and had no taxes withheld. They would get these large lump sums and never put aside anything for taxes and then miss their quarterly payments and have to pay huge penalties. At one time they had two drivers and four vehicles- and yes, one was a truck.
They bought a huge house and the second day they owned it took out a home equity loan- some went for taxes- but also for a horse trailer, horses, hunting dogs, etc.
Eventually they ended up filing for bankruptcy and a payment plan with the IRS (because taxes are not discharged ). The day after they filed, the family of 4 took a vacation to Cancun because it was so stressful!

Occasionally one of these stories is so fantastically horrible that I feel compelled to read it aloud to DH. This was one of those LOL.

[mustachepungoeshere]

A relative accused her mother of stealing her coat hangers.

Long, messy story (as are all stories involving this psychopath), but her parents agreed to store five boxes of her things. She sent out (through another relative) more than a dozen boxes and bags and bits and pieces. Her mother repacked everything into plastic tubs and labelled them.

The list of things that this person has accused her mother of stealing exceeds the number of things she sent out in the first place. And now the coat hangers.

Relative: You stole my coat hangers. You have to give me money now.
Relative's mother: What? There were no coat hangers in what you sent out. And I only buy x coat hangers.
Relative: I buy the same ones. I had just bought 80 of them and you stole them!

This is someone who couldn't afford to register her car, yet was claiming to have spent more than $100 on coat hangers. She was lying to try to get cash out of her parents, they knew that, but she apparently didn't realise people would look at this through the lens of her overall financial fuckery.

[mountains_o_mustaches]

My aunt just filed (non-medical) bankruptcy (I could go into the tidal wave of awful decisions that led there, but I'm sure you can imagine).  What's one of the first things she does after the bankruptcy goes through?  Buys a brand new 2016 car off the lot.  Her justification?  New cars have the "best financing options" and she couldn't afford to buy (edit: finance) a used car @_@  I just can't even...

[patchyfacialhair]

My aunt just filed (non-medical) bankruptcy (I could go into the tidal wave of awful decisions that led there, but I'm sure you can imagine).  What's one of the first things she does after the bankruptcy goes through?  Buys a brand new 2016 car off the lot.  Her justification?  New cars have the "best financing options" and she couldn't afford to buy (edit: finance) a used car @_@  I just can't even...

This upsets me. Non-medical bankruptcy...then goes out to buy a new car? And I'm sure she wants us to feel sorry for her. I mean...bankruptcy is so stressful amirite?

[mountains_o_mustaches]

My aunt just filed (non-medical) bankruptcy (I could go into the tidal wave of awful decisions that led there, but I'm sure you can imagine).  What's one of the first things she does after the bankruptcy goes through?  Buys a brand new 2016 car off the lot.  Her justification?  New cars have the "best financing options" and she couldn't afford to buy (edit: finance) a used car @_@  I just can't even...

This upsets me. Non-medical bankruptcy...then goes out to buy a new car? And I'm sure she wants us to feel sorry for her. I mean...bankruptcy is so stressful amirite?

Exactly - it's been so stressful, so she deserves something nice...smh

[accountingteacher]

A classic Jakeism:

His mother bought a TV and gave her old one to Jake since it was nicer than his.  One of his many devices didn't work with the tv.  Jake furiously calls his mother, demanding a brand-new state-of-the-art tv since it's his mother's fault he already gave away his old one. According to Jake, he NEEDS to see his shows or he'll spiral and try to kill himself again, and refuses to entertain any of the many workarounds.

He is also tech illiterate yet fond of shiny gadgets, so any gift includes (in his mind) hours of infuriating tech support from the giver.  He gets nothing but gift cards now.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I think gift cards are a great idea for relatives who belong on this board.  We give my FIL grocery gift cards every holiday.

[vivophoenix]

My aunt just filed (non-medical) bankruptcy (I could go into the tidal wave of awful decisions that led there, but I'm sure you can imagine).  What's one of the first things she does after the bankruptcy goes through?  Buys a brand new 2016 car off the lot.  Her justification?  New cars have the "best financing options" and she couldn't afford to buy (edit: finance) a used car @_@  I just can't even...

i am curious about the terms of her financing, what APR?

[AlanStache]

Not relatives but married family friends in there mid forties:

I had assumed they were sort of living paycheck to paycheck or hoped they had some savings or inheritance they were pulling from but no, they have been living well beyond their means and are filling for bankruptcy next month.  One is retired Navy with some pension/medical disability pay who teaches at community college, the other does odd jobs and buys/sells stuff.  So OK but modest income by many standards.  They rent in the fashionable part of town, have a very well decorated apartment, one (or two?) dogs, vacation here and here, eat out most nights per week, pair of new apple watches, apple laptops and to top it off in 2014 they bought a new motor home to get away for long weekends.   Who buys a new motor home?  I remember one of them telling me about it and bragging a bit about it costing 100k and thinking, ok you must have some income/savings I cant see but I would much rather have that monthly payment compounding up in an investment account. 

I understand things happen and bankruptcy is a needed tool in society but these guys had no unexpected events or loss of job, no medical problems and what should be sufficient income; the just had no thought for year after year about how they had more going out than coming in.  I dont know all the details but it seems like they were not even really making an effort to be solvent for a long time, I am not implying fraud or a plain to live it up the go bankrupt but like dude come on!

[Shalamar]

If you don't receive an invitation, you weren't invited.

I've been reading through the thread and found that comment from November.   I have a story!

A couple of years ago, my husband's cousin posted on Facebook that he was getting married.    We didn't see it, because we're not FB friends with him, but BIL saw it and told his mother.  MIL immediately announced that we were all going to attend the wedding.   Husband and I said "But we weren't invited - the FB post just said something like 'Wow, I'm getting married in two weeks', not 'Come one, come all'."   MIL scoffed "Of course they want us there!    We're faaaaamily!"    When Husband and I still refused to go, she huffed "Fine, but you'd better RSVP to Cousin to tell him you're not coming."    We could NOT get it through her head that it's impossible to RSVP to an event that you were never actually invited to.

[dandarc]

A relative accused her mother of stealing her coat hangers.

Long, messy story (as are all stories involving this psychopath), but her parents agreed to store five boxes of her things. She sent out (through another relative) more than a dozen boxes and bags and bits and pieces. Her mother repacked everything into plastic tubs and labelled them.

The list of things that this person has accused her mother of stealing exceeds the number of things she sent out in the first place. And now the coat hangers.

Relative: You stole my coat hangers. You have to give me money now.
Relative's mother: What? There were no coat hangers in what you sent out. And I only buy x coat hangers.
Relative: I buy the same ones. I had just bought 80 of them and you stole them!

This is someone who couldn't afford to register her car, yet was claiming to have spent more than $100 on coat hangers. She was lying to try to get cash out of her parents, they knew that, but she apparently didn't realise people would look at this through the lens of her overall financial fuckery.

My sister's excuse for this kind of crap is "I'm a drug addict."  Maybe this relative needs to know this is what heroin addicts do to their family - if said person is not actually a drug addict, perhaps there's hope they can be shamed into shaping up a bit.

[Making Cookies]

My aunt just filed (non-medical) bankruptcy (I could go into the tidal wave of awful decisions that led there, but I'm sure you can imagine).  What's one of the first things she does after the bankruptcy goes through?  Buys a brand new 2016 car off the lot.  Her justification?  New cars have the "best financing options" and she couldn't afford to buy (edit: finance) a used car @_@  I just can't even...

i am curious about the terms of her financing, what APR?

Are we already back to an economy where they hand out loans to anyone with a pulse? So we collectively learned nothing from the Great Recession...

Heard a story about someone in the extended family getting a divorce. The flame went out in their relationship. Not a bad choice IMHO considering these two. No little children involved thankfully.

A quick tally in my head says these two can't afford to get divorced. Neither can afford to live separately. Neither earn alot, one is unemployed suddenly, a fair number of expensive choices over the years that prevented savings or investments.

Then it clicked - they will likely raid their home equity to pay for it. That's all the wealth they have. A modest house.

In other words - after it is all said and done it will amount to a total financial reset to something near zero. Ouch! Persons involved = late 40s. Who wants to start over financially at our age?

Edited: fix a very important wording problem. I didn't "unemploy" them, they are unemployed all by themselves. I have nothing to do with their employment situation. Dangerous typos abound with me.

[Kitsune]

A relative accused her mother of stealing her coat hangers.

Long, messy story (as are all stories involving this psychopath), but her parents agreed to store five boxes of her things. She sent out (through another relative) more than a dozen boxes and bags and bits and pieces. Her mother repacked everything into plastic tubs and labelled them.

The list of things that this person has accused her mother of stealing exceeds the number of things she sent out in the first place. And now the coat hangers.

Relative: You stole my coat hangers. You have to give me money now.
Relative's mother: What? There were no coat hangers in what you sent out. And I only buy x coat hangers.
Relative: I buy the same ones. I had just bought 80 of them and you stole them!

This is someone who couldn't afford to register her car, yet was claiming to have spent more than $100 on coat hangers. She was lying to try to get cash out of her parents, they knew that, but she apparently didn't realise people would look at this through the lens of her overall financial fuckery.

My sister's excuse for this kind of crap is "I'm a drug addict."  Maybe this relative needs to know this is what heroin addicts do to their family - if said person is not actually a drug addict, perhaps there's hope they can be shamed into shaping up a bit.

Explanation, not excuse.

Pet peeve: people who use addiction, or mental illness, or disability, or lack of privilege of one sort or another to excuse their jackassed behavior (NOT meant to equate any of the above with each other, but I've had people use each one to attempt to excuse inexcusable behavior.)

It is 100% possible to be a decent person and fit any/all of the above categories. It's also 100% possible to be a complete jackass, and none of the above excuses it.

(What brought that to the surface: a particular asshole who used to hang out in a group I once spent time with would actually angle his wheelchair to stop women from moving away from him when he wanted their attention. ONLY done to women, ONLY to women who were about 10-15 years younger than him and fairly attractive. And if you were like 'J is creepy and keeps blocking me in room corners with his wheelchair and making noises around my chest and I don't feel comfortable around him', a bunch of people would be like 'oh, but he's had such a hard life! He's managing so well, considering!' NO. Just no. He's disabled, but also creepy and inappropriate and kind of threatning and a dick. Disability doesn't excuse the behavior.)

Or, to quote Brooklyn 99: cool motive, still murder.

[jinga nation]

Are we already back to an economy where they hand out loans to anyone with a pulse? So we collectively learned nothing from the Great Recession...

Yes and No.
Some of us did. Most didn't. The housing industry knew this is a rinse and repeat.
My cash pile is growing as there'll be another housing bust coming, in spite of the Federal Reserve's efforts of trying to prevent it. You can kick the can down the road, until the road ends.
Where I live, housing booms and busts is cyclic and normal, just like hurricanes.

[onlykelsey]

I understand things happen and bankruptcy is a needed tool in society but these guys had no unexpected events or loss of job, no medical problems and what should be sufficient income; the just had no thought for year after year about how they had more going out than coming in.  I dont know all the details but it seems like they were not even really making an effort to be solvent for a long time, I am not implying fraud or a plain to live it up the go bankrupt but like dude come on!

People like this drive me up a wall.  There are people with serious disadvantages in society, and I am glad that we have systems like bankruptcy and food stamps etc to help them.  When idiots like your family friends rely on those systems, it makes them unnecessarily expensive and harder to justify.

[Making Cookies]

You can kick the can down the road, until the road ends.
Where I live, housing booms and busts is cyclic and normal, just like hurricanes.

Two very good points. from my naive POV I once thought things were pretty much the same all over the country (COL adjusted). We all rise and fall together - which is clearly not true I realize. (DUH!)

I think for me it was a function of watching the evening news which hasn't always done a good job of treating the nation as a regional one rather than a coast to coast beige situation. ;)

Probably cheaper for national news networks to make sweeping generalities than relying on regional experts for everything. Perhaps once upon a time 50 years ago that was good enough. Now our country is crowded enough that the news needs to take a more nuanced look more often than not.

Unemployment is this or that in this singular region. Never mind that it is going up or down nationally.

[mm1970]

Are we already back to an economy where they hand out loans to anyone with a pulse? So we collectively learned nothing from the Great Recession...

Yes and No.
Some of us did. Most didn't. The housing industry knew this is a rinse and repeat.
My cash pile is growing as there'll be another housing bust coming, in spite of the Federal Reserve's efforts of trying to prevent it. You can kick the can down the road, until the road ends.
Where I live, housing booms and busts is cyclic and normal, just like hurricanes.

Yes, I was just having a conversation with some people last week about it.  The market is cooling a little right now, but it's been pretty hot.  So hot that the house down the street sold for a bit more than we paid for ours in 2004. (Yes, for us, bad timing.  The "peak" in around 2006-07 was $370,000 *more* than the "trough" in 2010-11.  At least we weren't at the peak?)

Anyway, it *feels* like it's going to dip again.  Even though so many of the homes in this town are second homes, bought for cash, sometimes foreign investors.

All I know is that I'm saving my pennies, and if it dips by $200k again I'll consider purchasing a second home.