Author Topic: Ready to vent now  (Read 10245 times)

onehair

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Ready to vent now
« on: June 18, 2015, 12:50:58 PM »
Okay this is my long-held rant about my SO. The spacebar sticks so bear with me while I get this out of my system.  I hope I don't sound like the world's Bitterest Betty.

After a disaster of a first marriage I relocated with my children and drama from that to recover.  Then I swore off marriage.  Then I met my SO.  I have a Mother Hen complex I am aware and he seemed to need taking care of and I fell for it....We got hitched and I expected to live happier ever after.  We made a good amount of money together and seemed able to cover bills with no difficulty.
So once again we moved and things seemed to be okay.  I did insist he consolidate his credit cards using a reputable place and he agreed. I also decreed no car til the debts were paid off.  We live in a metro friendly area so this was not a hardship.   

After about 1 year he seemed to change to become more secretive and spend money irresponsibly. He didn't help me pay for the needed child care at the time.    I did pay on one of his credit cards initially but began to refuse when it interfered with other pressing bills like utilities.  Then he borrowed from his retirement account to help a friend who ended up getting in major trouble. After that he claimed to be ill and didn't pay the rent.    He also got into those dangerous and awful payday loans.  They raided his account so often the bank closed it.  Luckily in my Pre Mustachian days I was able to save a little which got us through the first hump.  Then he decided to retire from his federal post.  His retiring wasn't the issue but when you formally leave Uncle Sam you are supposed to use your accrued sick leave to live on until you begin getting your monthly pension.  He had NO leave.  Naturally this meant no income our agreement was he was responsible for his rent and credit cards  I am responsible for food, utilities,health insurance since I make less.  At this point I took out two of the aforementioned loans to cover the rent I am steadily paying off.  I cut back on everything as well.  Enter the Mustachian for moral support.

Then I began to notice that when he has money he eats out constantly.  Carryout, 7-11,etc...Daily coffee.  I told him he ought to learn to cook and get a coffeemaker.  I indulge on occasion but face punch myself and head back to bringing my lunch.

Why have I stayed?  At one point I did have my savings lined up ready to start over yet again.  Even my late grandmother offered to help me.  I didn't accept the help due to fear of being dependent on relatives again plus watching what my aunt and uncle had done with their dependence. Then my son developed Crohn's.  I took out the last loan to ensure he had his food and medicines. Now he is receiving a small benefit check had surgery which fixed a great many of his medical issues paying his own bills which has enabled me to slowly begin rebuilding my savings but I decided that wasn't enough. I decided to increase my income to the point I can live where ever I choose and cover all my bills and vices with no help.  I also realized even if we had moved with my child being so ill at the time we ran the risk of running through savings and being in financial trouble once again.

Bob W

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2015, 01:30:40 PM »
That sucks --- Learn to say "fuck no"   You seem like you were making very decent money and he had a federal job,  so he should have been rolling in dough.  So the whole being broke think reeks of him mentally saying "screwing it, I'm spending every penny I make on crap and eating out."     Eating out can literally eat up peoples entire paycheck.

As an aside,  my daughter is a waitress at a semi upscale restaurant.   It is not unusual for people to run up $200 bar and sushi tabs.   Thing is this isn't silicon valley and I know most of the people eating there probably skew just over the area average of 70K combined income.   My bet is these people are younger and hip without children.   Too bad they haven't figured out that their future self would really like to have that $200 in the future when the sushi is long forgotten.   (they don't even cook the shit ---- "hey, here's some raw tasteless fish wrapped in sticky rice and a bottle of beer.   Looks pretty doesn't it?  That'll be $80, Thanks."

But I digress.

jinga nation

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2015, 01:48:09 PM »
onehair, do you love your SO that much that you'd leave him in when he is in a self-induced financial nightmare? I wouldn't. He needs to either clean up or pack up.

hey, here's some raw tasteless fish wrapped in sticky rice and a bottle of beer.   Looks pretty doesn't it?  That'll be $80, Thanks."

I heard Gordon Ramsay say that once on an episode of Kitchen Nightmares. Told a restaurant owner that while their dish tasted good, the presentation sucked. He showed them how to plate less in a fancy way so that they could turn a $10 plate into a $20 one. Genius!

MgoSam

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2015, 02:47:00 PM »
That sucks --- Learn to say "fuck no"   You seem like you were making very decent money and he had a federal job,  so he should have been rolling in dough.  So the whole being broke think reeks of him mentally saying "screwing it, I'm spending every penny I make on crap and eating out."     Eating out can literally eat up peoples entire paycheck.

As an aside,  my daughter is a waitress at a semi upscale restaurant.   It is not unusual for people to run up $200 bar and sushi tabs.   Thing is this isn't silicon valley and I know most of the people eating there probably skew just over the area average of 70K combined income.   My bet is these people are younger and hip without children.   Too bad they haven't figured out that their future self would really like to have that $200 in the future when the sushi is long forgotten.   (they don't even cook the shit ---- "hey, here's some raw tasteless fish wrapped in sticky rice and a bottle of beer.   Looks pretty doesn't it?  That'll be $80, Thanks."

But I digress.

I know you're being funny, but it isn't quite that simple. That said, I agree, it is insane how much people rack up. I love sushi, but rarely go out for it because of the expense, and would rather buy fish with a few friends and make it at home. The last time I went out for sushi, it was with two friends before going to the opera and they each spent at least $50 in food and drinks, while I spent $20. This was more than I preferred to spend, but it was delicious and a treat for myself.

Kris

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2015, 03:33:42 PM »
That sucks --- Learn to say "fuck no"   You seem like you were making very decent money and he had a federal job,  so he should have been rolling in dough.  So the whole being broke think reeks of him mentally saying "screwing it, I'm spending every penny I make on crap and eating out."     Eating out can literally eat up peoples entire paycheck.

As an aside,  my daughter is a waitress at a semi upscale restaurant.   It is not unusual for people to run up $200 bar and sushi tabs.   Thing is this isn't silicon valley and I know most of the people eating there probably skew just over the area average of 70K combined income.   My bet is these people are younger and hip without children.   Too bad they haven't figured out that their future self would really like to have that $200 in the future when the sushi is long forgotten.   (they don't even cook the shit ---- "hey, here's some raw tasteless fish wrapped in sticky rice and a bottle of beer.   Looks pretty doesn't it?  That'll be $80, Thanks."

But I digress.

I know you're being funny, but it isn't quite that simple. That said, I agree, it is insane how much people rack up. I love sushi, but rarely go out for it because of the expense, and would rather buy fish with a few friends and make it at home. The last time I went out for sushi, it was with two friends before going to the opera and they each spent at least $50 in food and drinks, while I spent $20. This was more than I preferred to spend, but it was delicious and a treat for myself.

I don't get the hate for sushi.  My BIL used to like to guffaw, "I make enough money for them to cook my fish when I go out to eat!"  Is it just because it's different? I mean, hey, sure, if you've tried it and don't like it, whatevs.  But it's not objectively bad; if you don't like it, then that's just a matter of personal taste.

The plot twist is, my BIL had never tried sushi (sashimi, to be more accurate) when he used to say that.  One day, he actually did try it, it turns out he liked it.  So he doesn't say that anymore.

mtn

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2015, 03:43:29 PM »
How'd we get to Sushi here?

Kris

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2015, 03:59:08 PM »
Onehair, are you planning actively to get out? What's the time frame?

Redstone5

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2015, 10:46:43 AM »
I'm so sorry that you are in such a difficult situation. I hope things work out for you and your children. Is there any hope that you might work out your differences in counselling? Maybe your spouse's poor decisions are coming from depression?

onehair

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2015, 01:22:14 PM »
I did suggest he go into counseling once but he refused.  He does have a lot to be depressed about with his family and friends I am aware of.  As for a new plan to leave at this point I don't know when I will be able to go.  Emotionally I just feel done.      Due to my first marriage and the bad money decisions I made at that point which continued even after I left I was leery of having joint accounts with anyone other than my mother and son.    I know he wants me to help him out more but every time I have I ended up deeper in the hole.


Redstone5

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2015, 03:04:48 PM »
I did suggest he go into counseling once but he refused.  He does have a lot to be depressed about with his family and friends I am aware of.  As for a new plan to leave at this point I don't know when I will be able to go.  Emotionally I just feel done.      Due to my first marriage and the bad money decisions I made at that point which continued even after I left I was leery of having joint accounts with anyone other than my mother and son.    I know he wants me to help him out more but every time I have I ended up deeper in the hole.

I have found the book "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About it" to be really helpful for me in the past. It has some great suggestions on how to maintain your own self-esteem and calm during marriage troubles, even if your partner isn't on board with making any changes himself. I read it through the library and then bought a copy so that I could make notes.

It seems like keeping separate finances would be a great idea for you, even if you do decide to try to stay in the relationship a little longer. I think many people on this forum do so and it works well for them.

EricL

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2015, 06:07:30 PM »
I don't know.  It seems there's something else going on in the background. He seems like Mr. Right then he starts going off the reservation keeping secrets, over indulging, acting like an idiot?  Who decides to combine retirement with becoming a spendthrift?  It could be an addiction, an affair, a mid life crisis or mental illness.  I recommend a closer investigation before determining options.   

Josiecat

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2015, 06:38:25 PM »
Why in the world did he quit a federal job?  He clearly didn't think this out. 

Elderwood17

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2015, 06:45:05 PM »
One hair - sorry you are going through this. Sounds complicated, and I have little advice, except to look out for yourself and your son.   You can use this forum to vent anytime!

onehair

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2015, 07:44:44 AM »
Off topic: I tend to buy my sushi from the grocery store it is so much cheaper there.  I rather like it but my stomach treats it as an appetizer and awaits the rest of the meal...

On topic: He was forced to retire after a certain medical condition he has was told to his supervisors.  I had told him years ago to make plans to leave because the moment it became known his coworkers would get itchy and make him uncomfortable.  He didn't listen.  Money wise he had a PO box where most of his bills and packages were sent so in the beginning I didn't see them or rarely.  After he went through his money troubles the first round he continually asked me for money for his coffee and medicines.  At first I gave it to him I don't usually like to see people go without.   Once I offered to go to the pharmacy with him to pay for the pills I was told no he needed the cash!  He did that with the rent too once.  I went to get a money order for my portion of it and he told me no our rental office wanted cash instead!  I have paid rent for myself in the past I know they do not take cash in any form....   

Second round of money troubles I paid the bills and refused to give him too much of anything.   He asked my son and I told him to give him nothing else since he didn't repay him last time.   As for the affair question I do believe he has done so and is continuing some form of one.  Since his earlier betrayals I usually know when he is up to something.  Fidelity is not really high on my list of dealbreakers but lying and messing with household money is go figure.....  He tends to pick people who use him up then when they have no use for him they jettison him. 

At this point he is more of an annoying roommate.  Since he is now paying the rent again I am saving investing and using my bits of side jobs to build up a reserve. 


zephyr911

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2015, 08:56:00 AM »
Sounds like he has completely lost your trust. What's left at this point?

Redstone5

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2015, 09:27:56 AM »
Sounds like he has completely lost your trust. What's left at this point?

I have to agree. It's one thing to help a partner through a tough time, but it's totally another to put up with cheating and lying. It doesn't sound like there's much for you to salvage here. Maybe it's better just to put this all behind you and start fresh on your own.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2015, 08:06:31 PM »
I'm so sorry, onehair.  An outsider's perspective based only on what I've read from you:  you deserve so much better than this.

partgypsy

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2015, 08:27:04 AM »
I agree. From how he is treating you, there is no "marriage" anymore, just using. So sorry you had to go through this. Start creating an exit plan.

Kris

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2015, 08:38:14 AM »
I do not want this to sound judgmental of you...

But I cannot imagine why you are still with him.

mrshudson

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2015, 03:28:04 PM »
OP, I'm offering a contrarian view and you are not going to find it sympathetic or agreeing with the majority opinion here. Please read up on Pygmalion Effect. I would first recommend that you consider doing counseling just on your own first, rather than drag your SO along for everything. Short version of it is that to me it seems like your SO is purposefully, and perhaps somewhat passive aggressively trying to fend off what he perceives as your controlling tendencies. Harsh as it sounds, there are only two possibilities: a) you become aware of this pathology, and be mindful in conversations and actions so that the other individual does not feel controlled, and b) agree to disagree and go separate ways, but hope you figure out along the way what could potentially become a repetitive pattern.

One exercise that works really well for the mother hen personalities (your word, not mine) is to remind yourself that people have the right to depart from the "best" or "most-optimal" solution, and you are going to have to respect that. So in your situation I'd release the pedal on doing the "I'm figuring out what's best for us" thing and see for a while on how it plays out, if you do want to continue pursuing this relationship. And also, get some boundaries in place both ways, even if it means living in separate houses for a while. There's also a tendency amongst many people to develop a dangerous blind-spot to one's own annoying habits and personalities, and sadly, this forum tends to encourage that sort of lack of questioning the self sometimes. So develop a healthy level of skepticism about your own mind, and try and challenge yourself when you feel compelled that one solution or one thing to do is the best possible outcome regardless of what other people may think.

Apologies this touches a raw nerve, but this just fits the many types of relationships described by Prof. John Gottman who studies psychology (which I consider a "soft" science) with game theory (which I consider a "hard" science), and I, no expert on any of these, feel that once the problem is recognized early enough, the situation can be salvaged if you and your SO are motivated enough. Highly recommend John Gottman's books also.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 03:29:52 PM by mrshudson »

onehair

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2015, 10:27:09 AM »
No offense taken Mrs Hudson.  I have never heard of the Pygmalion Effect but am reading about it.  Who is Dr John Gottman?  I knew coming here I might get pushback that wasn't all sweetness and light this is not a problem.  I have limited counseling available at work we have a doctor on staff here.

mozar

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2015, 01:12:42 PM »
Gottman has some good books about learning to communicate in relationships. Especially the "seven principles of making marriage work." But I think that book is more for relationships that are functioning at a basic level, which yours is not. I recommend starting with "codependent no more" and also "feeling good, the new mood therapy."

Since you are not kicking him out yet consider doing a couple of therapy sessions by yourself and reading self help books. You are at the beginning of your journey to learning self esteem. It's a long journey, but one of the best ones.


mrshudson

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2015, 10:53:43 AM »
You are at the beginning of your journey to learning self esteem. It's a long journey, but one of the best ones.

+100

sixup

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2015, 12:02:14 PM »
I think mrshudson might be on to something.

In your OP you said "I decreed..." which kind of threw off red flags for me (even if meant somewhat jokingly).

Good luck with this situation.

onehair

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2015, 03:19:27 PM »
Maybe decreed was too strong a word.    At the time I couldn't see us paying our bills, plus for the children, plus his credit card debts plus a car note and upkeep and insurance for it.  We would have been in a hole deeper than the one that came down the pike later.  I wouldn't have minded a vehicle and its expenses had our finances been differently situated. 

We did have a financial discussion beforehand so I could see exactly where he was at that time.  He was making good money plus as much overtime as he wanted.  Didn't seem to be much of a saver but I somewhat was so I thought we could have a middle ground....

foobar

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2015, 03:58:54 PM »
Maybe decreed was too strong a word.    At the time I couldn't see us paying our bills, plus for the children, plus his credit card debts plus a car note and upkeep and insurance for it.  We would have been in a hole deeper than the one that came down the pike later.  I wouldn't have minded a vehicle and its expenses had our finances been differently situated. 

We did have a financial discussion beforehand so I could see exactly where he was at that time.  He was making good money plus as much overtime as he wanted.  Didn't seem to be much of a saver but I somewhat was so I thought we could have a middle ground....

I think it is pretty unfair to expect a nonsaver to turn into one. He sounds like the same guy that you married but after a year neither one of you is willing to humor the other one the way you did early on when the relationship was new.  If finances were the only issue, you could try splitting them up (an make sure the shared stuff gets paid first:)) and then ignore what he does the rest of "his" money but in reality that is super hard to do. I can tell you that I have never seen persistant nagging result in behaviol change. Heck I wouldn't be shocked to learn that it increases the unwanted behavior. As it is it sure sounds to me that you should just cut your losses and move on. Seriously there is so much sketchy behavior (renting a PO? Requests for money that you know are for other things,...) here I don't see how sticking around is going to end well.

And in my experience grocery store sushi just isn't worth it. Sometimes you get what you pay for it.

onehair

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2015, 09:38:58 AM »
I didn't expect him to become a saver when we got married.   I just expected him to be honest about his financial dealings since we were now combining our resources to become a blended family of sorts.  We have been together for longer than a year he seemed to sort of mutate after 2006 and further in 2007 after the death of my daughter.  All of us grieved hard and I know I did some very very anti Mustachian things then. 

Not being honest about his finances, his health and his employment situation did get to me.  I don't like to come home to an eviction notice out of the blue more than once then hear "Maybe you can borrow from your relatives I will pay them back...."

onehair

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2015, 11:21:31 AM »
He has HIV.  No I don't have it nor did I give it to him.   He is on several different medicines at present and it seems to be under control.  In the beginning he had the runs and was bone thin.   Since he was a cop I knew if his coworkers found out they would get uncomfortable about working with him since if a suspect or someone gets unruly and you get into a physical confrontation bodily fluids can be possibly exchanged much like the medical field.  He refused to tell anyone and kept on working but somehow they found out.  I had advised him to look into retiring as soon as possible so that if that happened he would have a plan of sorts to deal with it.  Sure enough not long after it was discovered he mysteriously stayed home for those 6 months with no leave before his checks kicked in which is why I believe they told him to retire or else.

When we were furloughed I assumed he would go back just like I did.

MissStache

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Re: Ready to vent now
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2015, 11:26:14 AM »
I'm sorry about this situation you are in.  Is there a reason why you are staying with him?