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Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: 11ducks on April 09, 2017, 04:39:18 AM

Title: Purebred puppies
Post by: 11ducks on April 09, 2017, 04:39:18 AM
In the past month, two of my siblings have bought purebred pedigree puppies. I tried to suggest pounds/rescue group options to both but neither was interested.  My brother and his family spent $4500 on a purebred bulldog despite really struggling to make ends meet (one working parent, two kids and a third on the way, struggling to make payments in an interest-only mortgage). Now my sis has dropped nearly $2500 on a Dalmatian puppy (again, new mortgage, recently redone kitchen, young kids and one income). My sisters family purchased another purebred pup 3 years ago, and it sadly had so many heart/breathing issues due to its breeding that it died suddenly at 2 yrs old (which was horrible for them, and cost multiple thousands in surgery etc).

Both new dogs are adorable. I can't say anything negative about them, as both couples are lovely and it'd sound like sour grapes (I'd love another dog after ours passed last year, but don't have the yard space/time available to care for it properly right now) but jeez, that's a lot of cash for a dog! Plus there are so many shelter dogs available. So I figured that I'd anonymously bitch to you guys. Crazy expensive!
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Maenad on April 09, 2017, 06:42:48 AM
We just adopted two cats from the local humane society, one of them was turned in by his former owners because they were traveling for work so much that he spent more time with the cat sitter than with them. He's WAY to pretty to be a generic long-haired mutt, so we figured someone spent hundreds on a purebred kitten, then had to get rid of him when he was only 1.5 years old. 

People don't seem to realize that shelters have purebreds too. SMH.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Miss Piggy on April 09, 2017, 11:01:38 AM
I try not to judge people's dog purchases, as I am a purebred lover myself, but holy effing crap...$4500???!!!!   I mean, even the $2500 dalmatian would be a huge stretch, but $4500 crosses a line I would never be comfortable with, despite being FI. (Out of curiosity, is it a French bulldog?)
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: skp on April 09, 2017, 03:21:48 PM
We've had purebred Golden Retrievers, but ours are "only" $500.  Ours is 13 years old and relatively healthy.  I've been telling my husband that we should get a golden mix.  We've had mutt dogs in the past and they have had health and behavioral issues but they were not goldens.

My peeve about pet owners though are those who have pets and are too cheap to take decent care of them.  I have coworkers who won't spend any money on vet care EVER!!!    They get their "cheap" shelter pets and don't want to take care of them.  Their pets are expendable because they can be replaced for a $50 adoption fee.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Sofa King on April 09, 2017, 05:20:59 PM
Only stupid people buy dogs when they are being givin away at shelters.  Go to https://www.petfinder.com/ and find any breed you are looking for.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: kayvent on April 09, 2017, 05:24:01 PM
I get creeped out by the (inbreed) pedigrees of purebred dogs.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: SpeedReader on April 09, 2017, 05:40:23 PM
My brother and his family spent $4500 on a purebred bulldog despite really struggling to make ends meet

What is it with people who can barely feed and house themselves that they feel compelled to get pets?  I've seen it for years.  And then to get insanely expensive pets... /facepalm
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: 11ducks on April 09, 2017, 05:51:38 PM
I try not to judge people's dog purchases, as I am a purebred lover myself, but holy effing crap...$4500???!!!!   I mean, even the $2500 dalmatian would be a huge stretch, but $4500 crosses a line I would never be comfortable with, despite being FI. (Out of curiosity, is it a French bulldog?)



Yes, a Frenchie. Super cute but crazy costly.

I agree skp, dogs need to be well-cared for  - vet bills/worming etc can be expensive but you shouldn't have a dog if you cant afford to take on that responsibility. 
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Miss Piggy on April 09, 2017, 06:49:09 PM
(Out of curiosity, is it a French bulldog?)

Yes, a Frenchie. Super cute but crazy costly.

I suspected. My sister wanted a Frenchie, but didn't research them at all...still hasn't. They are freaking adorable, but sooooooo expensive (and mostly because they need all kinds of human intervention to reproduce). I asked my veterinarian if there were any reputable Frenchie breeders in our area, and she said "No. None. Don't ever get one. They have all kinds of problems."  She (the vet) has two herself, and she said any "normal" person would NEVER be able to afford all of the care they need. Since she's a vet, she provides their care, but even then, it's crazy expensive for her.

I hope your brother's dog is a good one.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: FIFoFum on April 09, 2017, 07:03:19 PM
Only stupid people buy dogs when they are being givin away at shelters.  Go to https://www.petfinder.com/ and find any breed you are looking for.

Stupid people - or....people who actually use the dogs for working purposes and want an ethically bred, screened for health pup to start out with.

I've adopted, and I've put in my hours working at the shelter. But the balance against "buying purebred puppies" has really tipped past the point of common sense. So please dial back the moral superiority in favor of rescue/shelter a notch. Good breeders care to have dogs maintained who actually have healthy hips, eyes, etc. and the temperament to do the stuff dogs were originally bred to do and other modern jobs that they've excelled at.

That said - $4500 is insanely high. Neither situation sounds like working dog or other specific reason for a purebred, and most certainly not with those 2 breeds or the prior dogs (good breeders often give a warranty on the pup for certain diseases/genetic problems).

Plus, some people can't really afford a dog or pets, though this very quickly turns into more judgment about what people in debt 'should' be allowed to have. Which...ugh.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: MrsPete on April 09, 2017, 08:14:08 PM
Only stupid people buy dogs when they are being givin away at shelters.  Go to https://www.petfinder.com/ and find any breed you are looking for.
Well, they're not quite being "given" away.  We paid $75 to adopt our pup; however, that covered puppy shots, rabies shot, and a coupon to take him to the Spay-Neuter Clinic within 30 days.  But, yeah, compared to $4500, it's a drop in the bucket.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Inaya on April 09, 2017, 08:28:29 PM
Can't you get pet-quality dogs for less than show-quality? Still purebred, but less expensive? (And presumably still all the breed's health issues.) I feel like I've seen this for Bengal cats (want want want, but would never get), but no idea if it exists for dogs. Or maybe retired show dogs?

I mean still a terrible idea, but if you have your heart set on a purebred, maybe you could spend a little bit less.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on April 10, 2017, 08:47:47 AM
Only stupid people buy dogs when they are being givin away at shelters.  Go to https://www.petfinder.com/ and find any breed you are looking for.

Stupid people - or....people who actually use the dogs for working purposes and want an ethically bred, screened for health pup to start out with.


Yes, my ex-girlfriend wanted that in a German Shepherd pup so she paid top dollar from the same local breeder that supplies dogs to the local police department. She wound up with a pup that had serious health and behavioral problems due to massive inbreeding. The dog, who was almost completely untrainable, eventually died at age 7 from a rare form of bone cancer that runs in some German Shepherd lines, after a year-long fight for survival that involved a leg amputation at the hip.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Fearthebait on April 10, 2017, 09:55:55 AM
I paid a $150 adoption fee for a Purebred German Shepard that was born in Europe to some famous breeder. I got him through a rescue from a family who could not "Handle" him due to his size. The family tried to set me up with all his paperwork showing where he came from, purebred status, etc., but the rescue got very defensive and refused to let me adopt if I contacted the original family again. I believe they we're scared that I was going to sell him off or something.

The point is...breed specific Rescues are also a fantastic source of lovable pets. I highly recommend looking into fostering because it let's you get used to the animal and breed before committing to ownership.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Chris22 on April 10, 2017, 01:22:12 PM
The point is...breed specific Rescues are also a fantastic source of lovable pets.

Are they?  I've heard they are EXTREMELY overbearing in how they place pets with potential owners. 

We did the classic "think we want a dog/go to the pet store just to look/oops we're dog owners!"  Didn't mean to get my dog from a pet store, but...  Oh well.  OTOH, we did have a couple bad experiences with rescues growing up, including one dog that had to be put down after he bit every single person in my family multiple times, breaking the skin.  Just became too much of a liability. 
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Lanthiriel on April 10, 2017, 03:26:19 PM
Yeah... I'm a bit ashamed of my pack. I have a corgi that was $475 and a Bernese Mountain Dog/Lab mix that was $800. I love them to death, but the corgi has some insane allergies that I don't know if I should blame on bad breeding or not, and I'm worried about the hips on the Berner mix. They're my biggest splurge when you count renting a house with a yard (long story about owning a house then having to move 2500 miles for a job), allergy meds, and the occasional dog sitter. I have no excuses.

I came thiiiiiis close to buying a purebred Berner, but they're one of those breeds that has been ruined by interbreeding, and I'm hoping the lab will temper some of that. I just couldn't bring myself to pay $2500+ for a dog that was going to die of heart disease before age 8.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: lightmyfire on April 10, 2017, 03:51:49 PM
Only stupid people buy dogs when they are being givin away at shelters.  Go to https://www.petfinder.com/ and find any breed you are looking for.

Stupid people - or....people who actually use the dogs for working purposes and want an ethically bred, screened for health pup to start out with.

I've adopted, and I've put in my hours working at the shelter. But the balance against "buying purebred puppies" has really tipped past the point of common sense. So please dial back the moral superiority in favor of rescue/shelter a notch. Good breeders care to have dogs maintained who actually have healthy hips, eyes, etc. and the temperament to do the stuff dogs were originally bred to do and other modern jobs that they've excelled at.

That said - $4500 is insanely high. Neither situation sounds like working dog or other specific reason for a purebred, and most certainly not with those 2 breeds or the prior dogs (good breeders often give a warranty on the pup for certain diseases/genetic problems).

Plus, some people can't really afford a dog or pets, though this very quickly turns into more judgment about what people in debt 'should' be allowed to have. Which...ugh.

"Good breeders" seems to somewhat difficult to determine, unless you know them personally, I guess. I'm very much in the pro-mutt/shelter camp, but I did once adopt a beautiful Russian Blue kitten from a breeder. The cat died of FIP (a virus caught by kittens due to unhealthy conditions) when just a few years old. It seems to me they weren't particularly concerned with ethical breeding. I've never had an issue with my non-purebred animals, and in my experience with dogs, mutts live quite a bit longer than purebreds and have fewer health issues.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: ketchup on April 10, 2017, 04:00:24 PM
As someone that's been on the other side of the fence (GF is a hobbyist breeder, a litter every year or two): yes, purebred puppies are often a bad idea.

But the bigger concern would be if someone is actually making decent money off their litters.  That's basically puppy mill territory there.  You need to find someone doing out of "love of the sport", and not a profit motive.  And even then some breeders do stupid things and crosses that don't make any sense.  The good ones are like good doctors: they don't advertise because their demand far outstrips their supply.

Properly raising a litter is very expensive and outrageously time intensive.  There are also many complications that can arise.  My GF's last litter (of 8) netted her about $300 (plus one puppy she kept) after the dust had settled, and that's with it basically turning into a full time job with overtime for two and a half months.  And that was with selling each of them for $1500-2000.  It's a really bad way to make money if you're doing everything correctly ($1/hr if you're being generous).  She's lucky she didn't come out behind.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: FIFoFum on April 10, 2017, 04:16:22 PM
"Good breeders" seems to somewhat difficult to determine, unless you know them personally, I guess.

It definitely takes a lot of research AND tapping into specific networks. Getting a puppy should be a two-way interview where a good breeder is scoping you out as much as you are them (or more). Also, if you are "doing it right," you almost certainly have to wait for an upcoming/planned litter & even then there has to be a good fit born in that litter for you.

As someone that's been on the other side of the fence (GF is a hobbyist breeder, a litter every year or two): yes, purebred puppies are often a bad idea.

But the bigger concern would be if someone is actually making decent money off their litters.  That's basically puppy mill territory there.  You need to find someone doing out of "love of the sport", and not a profit motive.  And even then some breeders do stupid things and crosses that don't make any sense.  The good ones are like good doctors: they don't advertise because their demand far outstrips their supply.

Properly raising a litter is very expensive and outrageously time intensive.  There are also many complications that can arise.  My GF's last litter (of 8) netted her about $300 (plus one puppy she kept) after the dust had settled, and that's with it basically turning into a full time job with overtime for two and a half months.  And that was with selling each of them for $1500-2000.  It's a really bad way to make money if you're doing everything correctly ($1/hr if you're being generous).  She's lucky she didn't come out behind.

+1 on how expensive it is, and that it's almost never a money making proposition (and definitely not if you value your time at more than $0). And almost everyone doing it right isn't advertising for exactly this reason - they don't have to.

Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: RetiredAt63 on April 10, 2017, 06:18:31 PM
Only stupid people buy dogs when they are being givin away at shelters.  Go to https://www.petfinder.com/ and find any breed you are looking for.

Depends on the breed.  I just checked. No dogs in my preferred breed anywhere near me.

For dogs:
There are reasons to buy from a breeder (breeder who cares about the breed, not a genetics-illiterate back-yard breeder, or a puppy mill)- you want a specific breed of dog, you know the normal temperament and health issues, you know breeders who are careful about those issues.  Good breeders are very fussy about where their puppies go, you will be checked out.  Not just about what your home is like but if you are a good match - long-distance runners do not need a Newfoundland, they are couch potatoes.  TV watchers do not want a Dalmatian, they are a coach dog.  House proud?  Don't get a double-coated arctic breed - they shed all year and blow coat twice a year.  And so on.

Versus - rescue of unknown background - you don't know its health status, you don't know what its temperament will be, you don't know how big it will grow up to be.

For cats:  there is a lot less variability in cat breeds, it is mostly coat.  A rescue will be a fine cat, or not, it depends on the cat.

And this will come as no surprise - I am on my 3rd dog of the same breed, from breeders, whereas all 3 of my cats were rescues.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Miss Piggy on April 10, 2017, 08:41:00 PM
The point is...breed specific Rescues are also a fantastic source of lovable pets.

Are they?  I've heard they are EXTREMELY overbearing in how they place pets with potential owners. 


We did a purebred rescue adoption about a year and a half ago. While we adore the dog we ended up adopting, and I'm really glad we have him, I would not call it a pleasant experience overall. Not sure I would go through the process again, to be honest.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Undecided on April 10, 2017, 09:23:36 PM
Only stupid people buy dogs when they are being givin away at shelters.  Go to https://www.petfinder.com/ and find any breed you are looking for.

Depends on the breed.  I just checked. No dogs in my preferred breed anywhere near me.

For dogs:
There are reasons to buy from a breeder (breeder who cares about the breed, not a genetics-illiterate back-yard breeder, or a puppy mill)- you want a specific breed of dog, you know the normal temperament and health issues, you know breeders who are careful about those issues.  Good breeders are very fussy about where their puppies go, you will be checked out.  Not just about what your home is like but if you are a good match - long-distance runners do not need a Newfoundland, they are couch potatoes.  TV watchers do not want a Dalmatian, they are a coach dog.  House proud?  Don't get a double-coated arctic breed - they shed all year and blow coat twice a year.  And so on.

Versus - rescue of unknown background - you don't know its health status, you don't know what its temperament will be, you don't know how big it will grow up to be.

For cats:  there is a lot less variability in cat breeds, it is mostly coat.  A rescue will be a fine cat, or not, it depends on the cat.

And this will come as no surprise - I am on my 3rd dog of the same breed, from breeders, whereas all 3 of my cats were rescues.

That site doesn't list any from my dog's breed, in any location.

As a child, teen and young adult, I had more than ten mixed-breed dogs, all either shelter dogs or friends' accidental puppies. Some good ones, some bad ones. When my wife and I decided to get a dog, we decided it was at least worth considering purebred dogs, made a very carefully considered list of the traits and qualities we prioritized, identified a breed that seemed an ideal fit (not one I was familiar with before we started our research), then contacted several breeders. It's a very "clubby" breed, at least in our region, and many of the breeders knew each other, shared their thoughts, opinions, etc. That we didn't want to show a dog was a little bit of a strike against us, but the first three breeders we talked with ultimately rejected us because we had young kids (two of those breeders didn't have kids, for what it's worth). We met an inactive breeder somewhat randomly and told her we'd been interested in a dog from her breed but hadn't had any luck, she got to watch our kids with her dogs, thought we'd be a good fit and put in a recommendation to one of her breeder friends. A year after we got serious about it, we got our dog, who turned out to be totally to type, and we couldn't be happier with him. We're still in occasional contact with his breeder (a great source of info), and with some of his litter mates, each of which seems like a great pet.

Maybe not everybody spends a year on buying a dog, and maybe not everybody has such a specific set of wishes as we had, but having had many shelter dogs and done this process once, I don't think it was stupid.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: totoro on April 10, 2017, 09:52:57 PM
I'd agree with retiredat63.  It depends.

The dog my parents adopted from the shelter turned out to be really expensive - like 6k.  She is an odd mix of breeds that led to both tricky hips and bad legs requiring two surgeries - plus hates strangers and sheds crazy amounts. 

Our $1200 non-shed labradoodle from a breeder never had a sick day in ten years until she suddenly developed pancreatic cancer last year and had to be euthanized.  Her hips were certified and she came with a health guarantee. We did loads of research before choosing this breed, and we checked the shelters first which where we are had mostly pit bull and husky x dogs, because our son had some allergies.  It paid off.  Great character and no issues with dander/hair allergies.  If we ever get another dog we'll check the shelters first, but will be fine to pay up front for a dog bred for temperament and health.

Our cat is from the shelter though.   Our main criteria was short hair and there are plenty available.  She is lovely.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: iris lily on April 11, 2017, 12:12:35 AM
I try not to judge people's dog purchases, as I am a purebred lover myself, but holy effing crap...$4500???!!!!   I mean, even the $2500 dalmatian would be a huge stretch, but $4500 crosses a line I would never be comfortable with, despite being FI. (Out of curiosity, is it a French bulldog?)



Yes, a Frenchie. Super cute but crazy costly.

I agree skp, dogs need to be well-cared for  - vet bills/worming etc can be expensive but you shouldn't have a dog if you cant afford to take on that responsibility.
We got six French Bulldogs in one day. Didn't pay a dime. It was kinda/sorta a rescue situation.

I have paid a few hundred dollars for the first two bulldogs we got, but after that, people in the bulldog club knew us and gave us dogs. Retired breeder dogs are the best --they are trained, they are nice, and the owners tells you all about the dog.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: iris lily on April 11, 2017, 12:20:04 AM
The point is...breed specific Rescues are also a fantastic source of lovable pets.

Are they?  I've heard they are EXTREMELY overbearing in how they place pets with potential owners. 

...

That is pretty silly, characterizing any one breed rescue group as the same as every other. There are hundreds of purebred rescue groups across the country.

I am on the board of a local bulldog rescue and I am active in fostering rescue dogs. We want the best home for the dog, and sure that may mean that your home isn't right for the dog you have picked out. Doesn't mean you are bad people, it may just mean that your existing pet isn't one that our rescue dog likes, or you don't have a fenced yard and this particular dog needs that fence,or your house has too many stairs, etc.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Chris22 on April 11, 2017, 05:26:53 AM
The point is...breed specific Rescues are also a fantastic source of lovable pets.

Are they?  I've heard they are EXTREMELY overbearing in how they place pets with potential owners. 

...

That is pretty silly, characterizing any one breed rescue group as the same as every other. There are hundreds of purebred rescue groups across the country.

I am on the board of a local bulldog rescue and I am active in fostering rescue dogs. We want the best home for the dog, and sure that may mean that your home isn't right for the dog you have picked out. Doesn't mean you are bad people, it may just mean that your existing pet isn't one that our rescue dog likes, or you don't have a fenced yard and this particular dog needs that fence,or your house has too many stairs, etc.

Kinda makes my point...
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: paddedhat on April 11, 2017, 07:00:55 AM
Only stupid people buy dogs when they are being givin away at shelters.  Go to https://www.petfinder.com/ and find any breed you are looking for.

Nice judgmental and clueless comment. We wanted a new dog a few years back, since rescuing is now a totally hipster trend, with lots of social media pressure, we decided to take a look.  stopped at, and called, countless shelters. Bottom line, if you want a pit, rotty, or some aggressive mutt, they have you covered. If you want a cut little mutt, you're screwed. One flat out told me," if you want a cute little terrier, or other desirable puppy, don't bother, the're gone an hour after they are dropped off".  Now you can always get breed specific and call a rescue group. Two problems with that. first, many will put you on a list, since EVERYBODY wants to rescue Golden, and Terrier puppies, good luck with the wait. Second, rescue groups attract some really screwed up people, and many make it their live's work to engage in "extreme vetting" to insure that the animal is places in their own wacked out version of a perfect environment. We called a few and were told, "home visit, suitable parents, current family pets need to be reviewed, and a fully fenced back yard, or no deal"   F- that, I have had dogs for 30 years, spent exactly nothing on fences, and had zero issues.  Thirty years of having a much higher quality of life for me, my family and our dogs. But, I bought them from breeders, so I guess that makes me stupid.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: iris lily on April 11, 2017, 07:14:03 AM
The point is...breed specific Rescues are also a fantastic source of lovable pets.

Are they?  I've heard they are EXTREMELY overbearing in how they place pets with potential owners. 

...

That is pretty silly, characterizing any one breed rescue group as the same as every other. There are hundreds of purebred rescue groups across the country.

I am on the board of a local bulldog rescue and I am active in fostering rescue dogs. We want the best home for the dog, and sure that may mean that your home isn't right for the dog you have picked out. Doesn't mean you are bad people, it may just mean that your existing pet isn't one that our rescue dog likes, or you don't have a fenced yard and this particular dog needs that fence,or your house has too many stairs, etc.

Kinda makes my point...

But why would you want to take a dog that doesn't fit with your environment? Enough do, it just takes patience to get the right fit. Not all of our dogs really need a fenced yard, in fact, most can live without it. If you are buying from a breeder and he doesn't ask you pointed questions about your environment, that signals something (not good) is up with that breeder, although granted, puppies are more adaptable.

After years of taking retired show/breeder bulldogs from bulldog people, we moved down a size to Frenchies. A man we had known we for decades and who gave us several of his dogs eyeballed our fence and said we had to address holes between the wrought iron fence posts before we got any of his Frenches. So we put ugly plastic mesh against  the fence and got one of his dogs, and the dog's fat Frenchie head was way too big to get through the fence. And besides, that dog and subsequent Frenchies had 0 interest in trying to squeeze out of the fence.

The point of my story that anyone who gives up a dog should have some standards about where that dog goes.I wasn't at all offended when our friend exercised caution about the environ,ent we provided for his dogs.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Chris22 on April 11, 2017, 07:59:12 AM
But why would you want to take a dog that doesn't fit with your environment?

I guess that comes down to your definition of "fit".  If the dog and an existing dog didn't get along, that's one thing, but to say the dog needs a fence, or wouldn't be able to go up and down stairs, that's pretty gold-plated if you ask me.  It would be like saying I couldn't adopt a kid unless I could guarantee him his own bedroom and a backyard with a swingset.  Those are nice to have, but are they a must?  Would they be a downgrade from his current living conditions? 
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: jinga nation on April 11, 2017, 08:04:56 AM
Can one of you MMM geniuses run a non-scientific correlation study to examine the purchase of new cars with pet ownership?

I would like the study to see if people who buy purebreds also buy sports cars or exotics. Do people who take home rescues also buy used cars? Do people who buy standard dog breeds buy GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, Nissan? Do people who buy Euro breeds buy Euro cars?
Finally, how many Subaru owners name their dog Scooby or Shaggy? What car brands are puchased by mutt owners?
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: paddedhat on April 11, 2017, 08:05:40 AM

The point of my story that anyone who gives up a dog should have some standards about where that dog goes.I wasn't at all offended when our friend exercised caution about the environ,ent we provided for his dogs.

Absolutely, that said, there are a countless folks at rescues who are  pretty strange people, obsessed with the mission, and totally irrational when it comes to being reasonable about where a dog get placed. My daughter is a dog lover, and actually makes a living charging horrifically unmustachian rates to walk other folks dogs. She wanted a dog of her own, and spoke to a few local rescue wackos. No deal, once they heard that she was a city dweller in an APARTMENT (Oh, the humanity of it all) they were done talking. For these folks there is no way to live a happy life if you are a dog confined to an apartment. She found a place that rescues in some backwards southern state where county shelters use gas chambers to do mass killings. For a few bucks donation she ended up with a hilarious Bassett/Beagle mutt. Goofiest looking excuse for a dog ever created, and the happiest, most lovable mutt I have ever seen.  I'm pretty sure the dog  prefers his current gig over being gassed to death, and shoveled into a dumpster. 
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: RetiredAt63 on April 11, 2017, 08:34:47 AM
Sensible requirements make sense, and breeders and breed rescue people know the strengths and weaknesses of their breed.  Some dog breeds are roamers - they need fences, or they will always be tied up when outside (which is why I fenced part of my yard, I have a "geographical boundaries mean nothing to me" breed).  Some breeds have issues with stairs - so will they be OK in a multi-level house?  And you may be fine, but lots of owners end up getting rid of a dog if it makes too much trouble - like running away, or not being able to go up and down stairs easily.  Or shedding too much.  Or being too energetic. Or   ...   or    .....   or   .....  Breeders and rescuers would like the dog to live with you until it dies of old age, so they want a good fit.  Plus everyone loves puppies - will you still like the dog when it is an adult?  Older dogs are harder to place, because everyone wants a puppy.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: iris lily on April 11, 2017, 08:40:11 AM
Can one of you MMM geniuses run a non-scientific correlation study to examine the purchase of new cars with pet ownership?

I would like the study to see if people who buy purebreds also buy sports cars or exotics. Do people who take home rescues also buy used cars? Do people who buy standard dog breeds buy GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, Nissan? Do people who buy Euro breeds buy Euro cars?
Finally, how many Subaru owners name their dog Scooby or Shaggy? What car brands are puchased by mutt owners?

Using me as anecdotal data, I prefer "used" everything --cars, furniture, pets, clothes, houses. I don't much like the shine of new.

Usually people who "buy" purebred want puppies. My rescue group had a couple of freak incidents recently that resulted in us getting an 8 week old puppy and a less-than-year-old fashion bulldog. We didn't put either one on our website, we would have been inindated with requests.The puppy went to a young couple who had already adopted two dogs from us.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: RetiredAt63 on April 11, 2017, 08:46:21 AM
Um, I want quality that lasts?  Mazda3 sport hatchback (at least another 5 years before it dies) and my favourite breed.  Both quality but not super high priced, and suit me and would not necessarily suit others.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: ketchup on April 11, 2017, 09:23:53 AM
Data point: purebred Australian Shepherds at home, never paid more than $2000 for a car, current car has 261,7xx miles on it, and our last car was 24 years old when we got rid of it (sold for scrap) after the engine gave out.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: FIFoFum on April 11, 2017, 11:58:43 AM
Um, I want quality that lasts?  Mazda3 sport hatchback (at least another 5 years before it dies) and my favourite breed.  Both quality but not super high priced, and suit me and would not necessarily suit others.

And it's an excellent car choice for a dog person. :)
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Sibley on April 11, 2017, 12:19:26 PM
If you get an animal from a breeder of any sort, please, please, please make sure that you do your due diligence and don't support puppy mills or backyard breeders. Honestly, nothing else than an unexpected and unanticipated site visit would satisfy me. You should see exactly where the animals are housed, food is prepared, bathing locations, and the should be plenty of toys/room to run, etc. Otherwise, you may be supporting animal abuse.

Spending crazy amounts of money on an animal is insane, but that's entirely different.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Reynold on April 11, 2017, 12:24:09 PM
Absolutely, that said, there are a countless folks at rescues who are  pretty strange people, obsessed with the mission, and totally irrational when it comes to being reasonable about where a dog get placed. My daughter is a dog lover, and actually makes a living charging horrifically unmustachian rates to walk other folks dogs. She wanted a dog of her own, and spoke to a few local rescue wackos. No deal, once they heard that she was a city dweller in an APARTMENT (Oh, the humanity of it all) they were done talking.

My MIL wanted an older, smaller dog (she is in her early 80s) after her previous one passed away, and went to the local shelter a couple of times but they "never had anything suitable".  My DW finally went with her, and demanded to know what was going on.   After a somewhat unpleasant confrontation she got them to admit that they thought my MIL was too old for a dog.  After all, if she had a health care emergency my DW was almost 4 hours away, so wouldn't be able to get there in time to take care of the dog.  I'm thinking "Really, your big concern about an elderly woman's health care emergency is that the dog may be unattended for half a day?"  At least my MIL won't have to waste her time going there to inquire any more, but it would have been nice if they hadn't been wasting her time all along by lying to her. 
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: paddedhat on April 11, 2017, 03:04:27 PM
Absolutely, that said, there are a countless folks at rescues who are  pretty strange people, obsessed with the mission, and totally irrational when it comes to being reasonable about where a dog get placed. My daughter is a dog lover, and actually makes a living charging horrifically unmustachian rates to walk other folks dogs. She wanted a dog of her own, and spoke to a few local rescue wackos. No deal, once they heard that she was a city dweller in an APARTMENT (Oh, the humanity of it all) they were done talking.

My MIL wanted an older, smaller dog (she is in her early 80s) after her previous one passed away, and went to the local shelter a couple of times but they "never had anything suitable".  My DW finally went with her, and demanded to know what was going on.   After a somewhat unpleasant confrontation she got them to admit that they thought my MIL was too old for a dog.  After all, if she had a health care emergency my DW was almost 4 hours away, so wouldn't be able to get there in time to take care of the dog.  I'm thinking "Really, your big concern about an elderly woman's health care emergency is that the dog may be unattended for half a day?"  At least my MIL won't have to waste her time going there to inquire any more, but it would have been nice if they hadn't been wasting her time all along by lying to her.

I often thought that if I was approached by a foreign psychologist who asked, " Where in your society might I find an unusually high concentration of  people with mental health issues?", I would first direct them to gather a group of school guidance counselors, and if that proved to be not quite fruitful enough, I would recommend heading for the animal rescue folks.  Maybe it's just dumb luck, combined with being a dog lover, married to a teacher of thirty years, but damn, if it isn't accurate. If you are hunting for a whole lot of crazy but (barely) functional, that there is some fertile ground to till. The OP's Mom's case is typical. Better that an older, unadoptable little dog rot in a cage at a shelter, than enjoy life with an old lady whose life would be greatly enriched by having a companion. Disgusting.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: totoro on April 11, 2017, 04:04:09 PM
Um, I want quality that lasts?  Mazda3 sport hatchback (at least another 5 years before it dies) and my favourite breed.  Both quality but not super high priced, and suit me and would not necessarily suit others.

I have the same car.  Had a Mazda 5 before when the kids were young.  An old Toyota Corolla before that.  None of them bought new. 
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: KBecks on April 11, 2017, 04:54:09 PM
We got our dog from a rescue group and she was $375, but she came spayed and in good health and vaccinated.  The but is that she has some fear aggression issues.  Therefore we are spending quite a bit of money on training and treats.  But heck I think I have at least a couple thousand to go before paying breeder price.  Plus, she's an adult dog and she came to us potty-trained!  I don't have to get up in the middle of the night and clean up accidents. 

We waited until we are nearly FI before getting the dog.  Cats are much, much more affordable and easier to take care of.  We've had two male cats (one current, one former) and both have been sweet sweet pets.

What I don't quite understand is people with many many pets.  But it depends on you and your lifestyle but it can be expensive and a lot of work!!   

My mantra now is that I get all my pets second hand.  Our second cat was free (friend found him starving as a stray.)   I love used pets.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: startingsmall on April 11, 2017, 07:35:12 PM
Um, I want quality that lasts?  Mazda3 sport hatchback (at least another 5 years before it dies) and my favourite breed.  Both quality but not super high priced, and suit me and would not necessarily suit others.

I have the same car.  Had a Mazda 5 before when the kids were young.  An old Toyota Corolla before that.  None of them bought new.

Shoot-out to a fellow Mazda5 driver! I love mine.... but now that we've decided to stop at one kid instead of having a second, I'm wishing I had gone for the Mazda3 instead. That will be next, I guess.

As a veterinarian, it amazes me how many people shell out massive money for these purebred dogs and then can't afford to care for them. Great Danes are expensive to buy, but even more expensive to buy meds for (since medications are dosed by weight). Bulldogs and Frenchies are expensive to buy, but even more expensive when you have to manage their chronic allergies and other health issues. I see so many dogs who develop treatable problems as puppies that have to go untreated because the owner says "I just spent so much money to buy him/her that I don't have any money left for xyz right now." People never cease to amaze me.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: tralfamadorian on April 11, 2017, 08:25:15 PM
My mom bred cavalier king charles spaniels when I was growing up.  Sweet little dogs.  Terrible heart problems in many lines. 

In my opinion the best way to find a quality purebred puppy is to find the breed clubs in the area and go through their membership lists with these criteria- screen for breeders whose dogs live in their home, have all the tests done for their breed, have a health guarantee, a no-questions asked take back, has no more than two litters/yr, and compete in both conformation and a second venue that demonstrates health/temperament such as agility, obedience or comfort visits.  When you ask about the major health issues of that breed, they should be able to speak intelligently about these.

Also, doing some research when picking a breed.  How many people buying an adorable golden puppy know it has a 60% chance of dying of cancer?  Probably not most. 

Very non-MMM and zero guilt- I have a rhodesian ridgeback and she is amazing.  The breed has no major health problems, which is very important to me.  I paid $5k for her. 
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: iris lily on April 11, 2017, 08:31:19 PM
My mom bred cavalier king charles spaniels when I was growing up.  Sweet little dogs.  Terrible heart problems in many lines. 

In my opinion the best way to find a quality purebred puppy is to find the breed clubs in the area and go through their membership lists with these criteria- screen for breeders whose dogs live in their home, have all the tests done for their breed, have a health guarantee, a no-questions asked take back, has no more than two litters/yr, and compete in both conformation and a second venue that demonstrates health/temperament such as agility, obedience or comfort visits.  When you ask about the major health issues of that breed, they should be able to speak intelligently about these.

Also, doing some research when picking a breed.  How many people buying an adorable golden puppy know it has a 60% chance of dying of cancer?  Probably not most. 

Very non-MMM and zero guilt- I have a rhodesian ridgeback and she is amazing.  The breed has no major health problems, which is very important to me.  I paid $5k for her.

The bolded criteria is very good! For my breed .I would not expect to find the male,dog and n site.

I would also ask the breeder which puppy she will be keeping and why. If the breeder isn't keeping something from the litter, you know she is just breeding for money.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: RetiredAt63 on April 12, 2017, 05:10:46 AM
My mom bred cavalier king charles spaniels when I was growing up.  Sweet little dogs.  Terrible heart problems in many lines. 

In my opinion the best way to find a quality purebred puppy is to find the breed clubs in the area and go through their membership lists with these criteria- screen for breeders whose dogs live in their home, have all the tests done for their breed, have a health guarantee, a no-questions asked take back, has no more than two litters/yr, and compete in both conformation and a second venue that demonstrates health/temperament such as agility, obedience or comfort visits.  When you ask about the major health issues of that breed, they should be able to speak intelligently about these.

Also, doing some research when picking a breed.  How many people buying an adorable golden puppy know it has a 60% chance of dying of cancer?  Probably not most. 

Very non-MMM and zero guilt- I have a rhodesian ridgeback and she is amazing.  The breed has no major health problems, which is very important to me.  I paid $5k for her.

The bolded criteria is very good! For my breed .I would not expect to find the male,dog and n site.

I would also ask the breeder which puppy she will be keeping and why. If the breeder isn't keeping something from the litter, you know she is just breeding for money.

And if the breeder is close, you should be able to visit well ahead of bringing your puppy home.  When we got our first dog, we went when the pups were 5 weeks old.  Mama walked away from the pups to come and visit us.  Typical breed temperament for my breed, let's make friends with the new people.

When my sister got her dog, the national specialty was in her city.  We went for the whole day, talked to a lot of breeders, and she got a puppy that fit into their family perfectly.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: ooeei on April 12, 2017, 06:29:07 AM
I bought a "purebred" labradoodle for $2700 last year, don't regret it one bit.  I got copies of the knee, hip, and eye testing of the parents, and got to meet the mom and pups when they were 5 weeks old.  Labs are notorious for hip and eye problems, so I preferred stacking the deck in our favor.  As far as the cost, dogs are just expensive overall.  I'm betting we'll spend >$10,000 throughout the life of the dog, and a single hip or eye problem could cost nearly the purchase price.  My old roommate's lab had a false hip he got when he was 2 or so, I doubt that was cheap. 

We went with a labradoodle because we love labs, but really hate their shedding.  We also visit family pretty often, so it definitely makes us more welcome that our dog doesn't cover their house in hair. Granted, grooming is a bit more than we bargained for but so far we're able to DIY everything.  For our first dog I wanted to be able to raise him from a puppy so that we could prevent behavior problems rather than fixing them.  He's also around kids, other dogs, and cats fairly often, and being able to introduce him early was great.  Now I'm more confident about it, so if we get another dog some day I'd be comfortable going to a shelter for it.

I think the "adopt or else" attitude has definitely gone too far.  There are good breeders out there doing genetic testing and trying to eliminate common problems in popular dog populations.  I see no issue with supporting a high quality breeder for whom health is a high priority.  I think the stigma maybe assumes all breeders are breeding show dogs or just finds two dogs to mate and sells them at the flea market when they're 5 weeks old.  I did have a guy come out of the YMCA and ask if I wanted to breed my puppy, very weird.

With all of that being said, I do  have my finances in order.  I wouldn't have gotten a dog if I didn't, rescue or not. 
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Pigeon on April 12, 2017, 07:01:13 AM
I've had purebred puppies and adult rescue dogs and a bunch of rescue cats, although stray cats have come to us and demanded a home.  I'll only adopt adult rescues going forward.  The puppy stage is something I'll gladly skip.

I've also volunteered with a dog rescue, where we got two of ours.  I did not like the internal politics of the dog rescue and tended to just volunteer to work with the dogs at the adoption clinics and show them to people, and stay out of the administration of the rescue.

I can see the rescues from both sides.  Ours had some people on the board who were nuts.  They weren't looking for good homes for dogs, they were looking for perfect homes.  OTOH, I can also see where some of the rules that might seem arbitrary came to be. 

For example, ours wouldn't have adopted to an 80 year old person who didn't have a local back up plan either.  They wouldn't adopt to a group of college kids.  The reason for some of the rules is that they tended to get a lot of returns from people in certain situations.  Before the no-college kids rule, we got a bunch of returns of dogs who had been taken, not well trained, and either dumped or returned to us when the kids graduated or flunked out. 

Every failed placement and return makes a dog that is then significantly harder to place because of aging and lack of training.  We had several dogs placed with elderly people who were subsequently returned because grandma had health problems and hadn't been able to really care for the dog for some time.  The dog is then older, has developed behavior problems, and is generally impossible for the rescue to rehome.  The people involved in the rescue are then stuck with the dog for years because no one else will adopt it.

People who run rescues are volunteers who put in a lot of their own time and money into the operation.  They don't owe anyone a dog.  I do think many of them get way to wrapped up in it to the point of losing their objectivity.  Exposure to a lot of horrible behavior on the part of people makes many of them extremely jaded. 
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Mezzie on April 12, 2017, 07:07:13 AM
My husband insisted we get a purebred Corgi because it was going to be my first dog and, since he's a dog lover, he wanted to make sure I had an excellent dog experience with easy training so that we could continue to have dogs throughout our lives.

His plan worked, and we'll likely get a shelter pup next time around. For him, the cost upfront was an investment in something he cared about and wanted to share with me. We purchased our dog from an ethical breeder.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: iris lily on April 12, 2017, 08:09:09 AM
Absolutely, that said, there are a countless folks at rescues who are  pretty strange people, obsessed with the mission, and totally irrational when it comes to being reasonable about where a dog get placed. My daughter is a dog lover, and actually makes a living charging horrifically unmustachian rates to walk other folks dogs. She wanted a dog of her own, and spoke to a few local rescue wackos. No deal, once they heard that she was a city dweller in an APARTMENT (Oh, the humanity of it all) they were done talking.

My MIL wanted an older, smaller dog (she is in her early 80s) after her previous one passed away, and went to the local shelter a couple of times but they "never had anything suitable".  My DW finally went with her, and demanded to know what was going on.   After a somewhat unpleasant confrontation she got them to admit that they thought my MIL was too old for a dog.  After all, if she had a health care emergency my DW was almost 4 hours away, so wouldn't be able to get there in time to take care of the dog.  I'm thinking "Really, your big concern about an elderly woman's health care emergency is that the dog may be unattended for half a day?"  At least my MIL won't have to waste her time going there to inquire any more, but it would have been nice if they hadn't been wasting her time all along by lying to her.

I often thought that if I was approached by a foreign psychologist who asked, " Where in your society might I find an unusually high concentration of  people with mental health issues?", I would first direct them to gather a group of school guidance counselors, and if that proved to be not quite fruitful enough, I would recommend heading for the animal rescue folks.  Maybe it's just dumb luck, combined with being a dog lover, married to a teacher of thirty years, but damn, if it isn't accurate. If you are hunting for a whole lot of crazy but (barely) functional, that there is some fertile ground to till. The OP's Mom's case is typical. Better that an older, unadoptable little dog rot in a cage at a shelter, than enjoy life with an old lady whose life would be greatly enriched by having a companion. Disgusting.
Haha. Okay! Maybe.

I think the main thing to understand is that we, the rescue people, don't know you or what is in your heart or that you have had dogs for 30 years and had a yadda.

One of my friends has "rescued" many dogs off the street and that "rescuer" persona is a huge part of her identity. She never has fewer than 5 dogs living in her city house. One day I was over to her house visiting her and she was pissed off, crying, mad. She had applied to a local rescue , headed up by someone we both have known  for years, to adopt a dog. They turned her down. They turned her down because when they checked  her references, her vet said she did not give her dogs heart worm meds or do heart worm tests.

That is a legitimate standard.

But in her mind, she is the rescuer, she does the good work, she is the GOOD person.

And to the anonymous screener at the rescue organization, she is just another applicant who does not meet a standard and who may  signal an "animal hoarder."



Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on April 12, 2017, 08:36:44 AM
My Venomous Spaz Beast was free through my daughter's bio-family network. In the underclass people still like to keep pets, but they don't spay or neuter them or take them for vet care because it's Too Expensive. The VSB came to us from a couple of dogs who actually had a long-term relationship and had had a couple of litters together. But because of the living conditions around that neighborhood, the VSB's littermate and her older sister from a previous litter both died young. Originally the VSB was destined to be used by my daughter's cousin to get a girlfriend, however my daughter called dibs on the pup and proceeded to reject and ignore her, treating her exactly the way her bio-family treated dogs. The pup, frantic at being neglected, bonded to me out of a need to survive. Since then the relationship has blossomed into something beautiful and I'm finally experiencing the positive aspects of an emotional bond: my ex-girlfriend said that perhaps adoption, for me, was simply a very expensive and time consuming path to Chihuahua ownership. Meanwhile, in the neighborhood the VSB came from there's a lot of turnover in dogs. Her older sister was critically injured when she got involved in a fight between two larger dogs, and her littermate brother died because he was so skinny, tiny, and starving he couldn't put on weight (possibly due to never being dewormed). The pup was so hungry he'd eat anything, and eventually he got a mouthful of rat poison that had been left outside. So you really can see natural selection in action. In the dog population there's no nonsense about patella problems or anything else since the dogs are not AKC and contain out-crossings in the distant past from pugs, Min Pins, Doxies, and other small breeds while remaining characteristically Chihuahua. So the VSB has a slight under-bite but outstanding teeth, and she's mellow enough to let me examine and touch them. She is almost preternaturally healthy. The fact I let her cram in as much high protein puppy food as she wants while giving her lots of exercise and providing regular shots and spaying has been a factor. She's very buff, cut like a racehorse but you can't see her ribs, and she scampers around so much on concrete that I seldom have to trim her nails. She's put on nearly a pound since I had her spayed and that got her well out of teacup territory (much to my relief). I don't think she'll make it to five pounds because she burns off the calories doing her walks, playing fetch, and training for Doggie Ninja Warrior.

Although the potty training has had a few setbacks (characteristic of the Chihuahua breed) the VSB is a healthy little doggie. Not show quality due to the under-bite, and although she was small she's now over four pounds and out of teacup territory. She's a little leery of high-energy dogs but likes other small dogs and cats and is extremely fond of children. When I walk her in the neighborhood all the kids know her and want to play with her. Seldom have I seen a pup so eager to snuggle up with kids who sometimes play a little rough, and because she's so personable, easy-going, cute, and quiet all the kids want a VSB of their own.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Inaya on April 12, 2017, 09:40:11 AM
I often thought that if I was approached by a foreign psychologist who asked, " Where in your society might I find an unusually high concentration of  people with mental health issues?", I would first direct them to gather a group of school guidance counselors, and if that proved to be not quite fruitful enough, I would recommend heading for the animal rescue folks.
Without negating the enormous good rescue employees and volunteers do, I agree with this 100%. Hubs and I volunteer for a cat rescue and we've found some of the others to be... eccentric. (To be fair that might describe us as well...) Not all are like that, and they are for the most part amazing, wonderful, selfless people.

I've also volunteered with a dog rescue, where we got two of ours.  I did not like the internal politics of the dog rescue and tended to just volunteer to work with the dogs at the adoption clinics and show them to people, and stay out of the administration of the rescue.
We volunteer for community outreach (mostly manning booths at festivals with the world's chillest cat), so we rarely even go to the facilities or have anything to with the admin. The sheer amount of drama, crazy, and politics that goes on is ridiculous. Apparently our entire board just imploded last summer in the middle of building a multimillion dollar facility. The resulting fallout included facility completion a year behind schedule, at least $1MM over budget, and a several million dollar shortfall. The building was finished late last year, but it's just sitting there, empty and consuming resources because there just aren't funds for furniture, clinic equipment, etc.

Because we only go to events, we never saw any of this play out--we only saw it on the news like everyone else. Well that and the resignation announcements, but we only found out the reason for those resignations well after the fact.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Chris22 on April 12, 2017, 09:50:40 AM
People who run rescues are volunteers who put in a lot of their own time and money into the operation.  They don't owe anyone a dog.  I do think many of them get way to wrapped up in it to the point of losing their objectivity.  Exposure to a lot of horrible behavior on the part of people makes many of them extremely jaded.

I'm sure that's all true, but you have to remember, you* can't simultaneously shame people for not rescuing dogs and then put them through the ringer when they try to rescue one.  You want to put people through "extreme vetting" to adopt an animal, don't be surprised when they don't want to play the games and jump through the hoops and instead are happy to get the cute puppy from the store, no questions asked, for just 24 payments of $89. 


*not YOU, the dog rescue community you
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Dezrah on April 12, 2017, 09:56:57 AM
Bird shelters also seem to attract a certain level of crazy volunteers.  In their case though I totally get it.  95% of birds at a shelter are from people who surrendered them after they realized they didn't have what it takes to care for it.  Even the people who love birds can be unintentional bad owners if they don't properly feed and stimulate them.  The more a bird gets rehomed, the more likely it is to develop psychological and behavioral problems.

That said, the application process for these guys is crazy.  Literal written tests, reading assignments, home studies, pre-adoption visits to bond with the bird, hundreds of dollars for the small guys and thousands for the big ones, and that's if they even bother returning your calls after you fill out an application. 

It's a vicious cycle.  The more rigorous these shelters are, the more people are driven to uncaring breeders and pet stores, the more birds end up in shelters, the more cynical and rigorous shelters become.

I tried reaching out to a few shelters but was always turned down because I lived outside their home visit radius.  Eventually we got the guy in my profile pic from a private couple we learned about through word of mouth.  Their daughter had developed an allergy to the bird dander; they loved him, but couldn't keep him.  He's been a happy addition to our family for nearly seven years now.  I'd never get to do that if I actually had to deal with a shelter.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Pigeon on April 12, 2017, 10:08:18 AM
People who run rescues are volunteers who put in a lot of their own time and money into the operation.  They don't owe anyone a dog.  I do think many of them get way to wrapped up in it to the point of losing their objectivity.  Exposure to a lot of horrible behavior on the part of people makes many of them extremely jaded.

I'm sure that's all true, but you have to remember, you* can't simultaneously shame people for not rescuing dogs and then put them through the ringer when they try to rescue one.  You want to put people through "extreme vetting" to adopt an animal, don't be surprised when they don't want to play the games and jump through the hoops and instead are happy to get the cute puppy from the store, no questions asked, for just 24 payments of $89. 


*not YOU, the dog rescue community you

The powers that be at the rescue I volunteered with had zero problems with people walking away if they didn't want to jump through the hoops.  Good riddance, and all that.  Despite all the hoops, they placed a huge number of dogs, considering that it was a small rescue run on a shoestring.  Most of the people who pushed back were looking for puppies, and the puppies practically flew out of there.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: iris lily on April 12, 2017, 10:14:25 AM
My Venomous Spaz Beast was free through my daughter's bio-family network. In the underclass people still like to keep pets, but they don't spay or neuter them or take them for vet care because it's Too Expensive. The VSB came to us from a couple of dogs who actually had a long-term relationship and had had a couple of litters together. But because of the living conditions around that neighborhood, the VSB's littermate and her older sister from a previous litter both died young. Originally the VSB was destined to be used by my daughter's cousin to get a girlfriend, however my daughter called dibs on the pup and proceeded to reject and ignore her, treating her exactly the way her bio-family treated dogs. The pup, frantic at being neglected, bonded to me out of a need to survive. Since then the relationship has blossomed into something beautiful and I'm finally experiencing the positive aspects of an emotional bond: my ex-girlfriend said that perhaps adoption, for me, was simply a very expensive and time consuming path to Chihuahua ownership. Meanwhile, in the neighborhood the VSB came from there's a lot of turnover in dogs. Her older sister was critically injured when she got involved in a fight between two larger dogs, and her littermate brother died because he was so skinny, tiny, and starving he couldn't put on weight (possibly due to never being dewormed). The pup was so hungry he'd eat anything, and eventually he got a mouthful of rat poison that had been left outside. So you really can see natural selection in action. In the dog population there's no nonsense about patella problems or anything else since the dogs are not AKC and contain out-crossings in the distant past from pugs, Min Pins, Doxies, and other small breeds while remaining characteristically Chihuahua. So the VSB has a slight under-bite but outstanding teeth, and she's mellow enough to let me examine and touch them. She is almost preternaturally healthy. The fact I let her cram in as much high protein puppy food as she wants while giving her lots of exercise and providing regular shots and spaying has been a factor. She's very buff, cut like a racehorse but you can't see her ribs, and she scampers around so much on concrete that I seldom have to trim her nails. She's put on nearly a pound since I had her spayed and that got her well out of teacup territory (much to my relief). I don't think she'll make it to five pounds because she burns off the calories doing her walks, playing fetch, and training for Doggie Ninja Warrior.

Although the potty training has had a few setbacks (characteristic of the Chihuahua breed) the VSB is a healthy little doggie. Not show quality due to the under-bite, and although she was small she's now over four pounds and out of teacup territory. She's a little leery of high-energy dogs but likes other small dogs and cats and is extremely fond of children. When I walk her in the neighborhood all the kids know her and want to play with her. Seldom have I seen a pup so eager to snuggle up with kids who sometimes play a little rough, and because she's so personable, easy-going, cute, and quiet all the kids want a VSB of their own.

Hahahah all the way down the block to the bolded.

Otherwise, excellent entertaining post about the little beast.

I don't do rescue because I am a GOOD person,
I do rescue because the dogs entertain me, they are a laugh a minute. It really is all about me.:)
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Walsh1122 on April 12, 2017, 11:26:45 AM
Um, I want quality that lasts?  Mazda3 sport hatchback (at least another 5 years before it dies) and my favourite breed.  Both quality but not super high priced, and suit me and would not necessarily suit others.

I have the same car.  Had a Mazda 5 before when the kids were young.  An old Toyota Corolla before that.  None of them bought new.

Shoot-out to a fellow Mazda5 driver! I love mine.... but now that we've decided to stop at one kid instead of having a second, I'm wishing I had gone for the Mazda3 instead. That will be next, I guess.

As a veterinarian, it amazes me how many people shell out massive money for these purebred dogs and then can't afford to care for them. Great Danes are expensive to buy, but even more expensive to buy meds for (since medications are dosed by weight). Bulldogs and Frenchies are expensive to buy, but even more expensive when you have to manage their chronic allergies and other health issues. I see so many dogs who develop treatable problems as puppies that have to go untreated because the owner says "I just spent so much money to buy him/her that I don't have any money left for xyz right now." People never cease to amaze me.

As a fellow veterinarian, I agree.  Please do not adopt or purchase a pet if you do not have the financial ability to properly care for it.  Make sure you either have an "emergency fund" set up for sudden illness or at least have some form of pet insurance to help cover costs that can not be planned for (illness/injury). 

If you are thinking of adopting or purchasing a pet and have questions, call a local veterinarian and set up an appointment to talk it over.  I personally would be THRILLED if I had a client take this pro-active approach and probably wouldn't even charge them for my time, largely out of sheer amazement that they thought that far ahead.  Worst case scenario you are out a $30-50 office fee, but at the very least you would have some basic knowledge on what caring for that particular breed/animal would entail. If you are thinking about purchasing a pure bred, find a reputable breeder and go talk to them as well.   

In the end, I don't care what the purchase price was as long as you have a financial plan in place to take care of your new 10-15 year commitment.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: tralfamadorian on April 12, 2017, 12:11:42 PM
If you are thinking of adopting or purchasing a pet and have questions, call a local veterinarian and set up an appointment to talk it over.  I personally would be THRILLED if I had a client take this pro-active approach and probably wouldn't even charge them for my time, largely out of sheer amazement that they thought that far ahead.

I would like to say that I'm surprised that more people don't do this.  I did call my vet and set up a phone appointment to talk about a couple breeds we were considering (standard poodles and ridgebacks) to get his opinions/thoughts.  I presumed that it was a pretty normal, common thing to do. 
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: MsPeacock on April 12, 2017, 06:31:01 PM
Absolutely, that said, there are a countless folks at rescues who are  pretty strange people, obsessed with the mission, and totally irrational when it comes to being reasonable about where a dog get placed. My daughter is a dog lover, and actually makes a living charging horrifically unmustachian rates to walk other folks dogs. She wanted a dog of her own, and spoke to a few local rescue wackos. No deal, once they heard that she was a city dweller in an APARTMENT (Oh, the humanity of it all) they were done talking.

My MIL wanted an older, smaller dog (she is in her early 80s) after her previous one passed away, and went to the local shelter a couple of times but they "never had anything suitable".  My DW finally went with her, and demanded to know what was going on.   After a somewhat unpleasant confrontation she got them to admit that they thought my MIL was too old for a dog.  After all, if she had a health care emergency my DW was almost 4 hours away, so wouldn't be able to get there in time to take care of the dog.  I'm thinking "Really, your big concern about an elderly woman's health care emergency is that the dog may be unattended for half a day?"  At least my MIL won't have to waste her time going there to inquire any more, but it would have been nice if they hadn't been wasting her time all along by lying to her.

I often thought that if I was approached by a foreign psychologist who asked, " Where in your society might I find an unusually high concentration of  people with mental health issues?", I would first direct them to gather a group of school guidance counselors, and if that proved to be not quite fruitful enough, I would recommend heading for the animal rescue folks.  Maybe it's just dumb luck, combined with being a dog lover, married to a teacher of thirty years, but damn, if it isn't accurate. If you are hunting for a whole lot of crazy but (barely) functional, that there is some fertile ground to till. The OP's Mom's case is typical. Better that an older, unadoptable little dog rot in a cage at a shelter, than enjoy life with an old lady whose life would be greatly enriched by having a companion. Disgusting.
Haha. Okay! Maybe.

I think the main thing to understand is that we, the rescue people, don't know you or what is in your heart or that you have had dogs for 30 years and had a yadda.

One of my friends has "rescued" many dogs off the street and that "rescuer" persona is a huge part of her identity. She never has fewer than 5 dogs living in her city house. One day I was over to her house visiting her and she was pissed off, crying, mad. She had applied to a local rescue , headed up by someone we both have known  for years, to adopt a dog. They turned her down. They turned her down because when they checked  her references, her vet said she did not give her dogs heart worm meds or do heart worm tests.

That is a legitimate standard.

But in her mind, she is the rescuer, she does the good work, she is the GOOD person.

And to the anonymous screener at the rescue organization, she is just another applicant who does not meet a standard and who may  signal an "animal hoarder."

My experience with local rescues when I wanted to get a dog a few years ago was consistent with ridiculous standards and crazy people. It was literally impossible to get a dog as someone who works outside of the house and has two kids. The minimum age of kids would vary from day to day and which animal I asked about (my kids were 7 and 10 at the time). The fact that I was employed meant I couldn't adopt a dog because the rescues required that someone be home all day with the dog. Home visits were required, multiple times. I spoke with numerous rescue organizations and after months gave up. It was ridiculous.

In the past few weeks we have tried to find a kitten. I have a 2 year old cat who was adopted along with his brother, who died suddenly of some neurological problem. We wanted a kitten because it would be easier to introduce a kitten to the household. Shelter told me that they only adopt kittens in pairs (despite having an odd number of kittens available). This is the local public animal shelter, which appears to be rising to rescue standards.

Anyhow - my working theory is that "rescues" are mostlY animal hoarders who want a veneer of social acceptability for their 17 "foster" dog of whatever.

Got my dog from a good breeder after extensive research. Got an adult cat from another public shelter in the next county over, with a basic ask no questions policy.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: paddedhat on April 12, 2017, 08:13:23 PM
It's interesting to see all the other members here who also report bizarre and irrational behavior while attempting to add a rescued animal to their lives, AND the folks who can rationalize and explain away every strange and unreasonable behavior. Birds of a feather, perhaps.

 Thank God I never end up with a dog breed that can never be left alone while the family is at work and school, cannot be exposed to the horrors of children, other pets, stairs, lack of fencing, or denied the perfect suburban existence. You know, the kind you only find in sitcoms on the rerun channels. Hell, here in the real world, these mythical dogs are pretty rare, but oddly enough, rescue organizations are apparently awash in them. Hum, makes you wonder how many dogs never find a decent home since the bat shit crazy leadership can't seem to find the specific nirvana their animals apparently can't live without? I wonder how many of these places end up with taxpayer money to engage in this silliness?
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: skeeder on May 05, 2017, 06:51:45 AM
we have a purebred goldendoodle.  I was against spending the money we did, but honestly the "less shedding" aspect is the only reason why I can keep him in my house with the allergies I have. 

Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on May 05, 2017, 08:22:16 AM
It's interesting to see all the other members here who also report bizarre and irrational behavior while attempting to add a rescued animal to their lives, AND the folks who can rationalize and explain away every strange and unreasonable behavior. Birds of a feather, perhaps.

 Thank God I never end up with a dog breed that can never be left alone while the family is at work and school, cannot be exposed to the horrors of children, other pets, stairs, lack of fencing, or denied the perfect suburban existence. You know, the kind you only find in sitcoms on the rerun channels. Hell, here in the real world, these mythical dogs are pretty rare, but oddly enough, rescue organizations are apparently awash in them. Hum, makes you wonder how many dogs never find a decent home since the bat shit crazy leadership can't seem to find the specific nirvana their animals apparently can't live without? I wonder how many of these places end up with taxpayer money to engage in this silliness?

I can think of plausible reasons why an *individual animal* might have any of the above restrictions due to health or behavioral problems, and there's something to be said for matching an animal's needs and restrictions with what a prospective adopter can provide, but having a blanket policy that prevents a healthy, child-friendly animal from going to a home with stairs and children makes no sense to me.

A policy that prevents a non-special-needs home from adopting any of their animals simply ensures that all the animals have to wait longer before being placed. The normal animal who would do very well in a home with stairs, kids, or a bit of daytime solitude, and who does not require a special-needs-friendly home, is prevented from getting a perfectly good home in which he or she would thrive. Meanwhile the animal with hip dysplasia or knee problems due to inbreeding, who genuinely can't handle stairs, has to wait even longer because families with a stairless, special-needs-friendly home are going to snap up the normal, healthy animal instead. Having the animals around for longer no doubt suits the hoarder-fosterers just fine.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Chris22 on May 05, 2017, 08:43:08 AM
It's interesting to see all the other members here who also report bizarre and irrational behavior while attempting to add a rescued animal to their lives, AND the folks who can rationalize and explain away every strange and unreasonable behavior. Birds of a feather, perhaps.

 Thank God I never end up with a dog breed that can never be left alone while the family is at work and school, cannot be exposed to the horrors of children, other pets, stairs, lack of fencing, or denied the perfect suburban existence. You know, the kind you only find in sitcoms on the rerun channels. Hell, here in the real world, these mythical dogs are pretty rare, but oddly enough, rescue organizations are apparently awash in them. Hum, makes you wonder how many dogs never find a decent home since the bat shit crazy leadership can't seem to find the specific nirvana their animals apparently can't live without? I wonder how many of these places end up with taxpayer money to engage in this silliness?

I can think of plausible reasons why an *individual animal* might have any of the above restrictions due to health or behavioral problems, and there's something to be said for matching an animal's needs and restrictions with what a prospective adopter can provide, but having a blanket policy that prevents a healthy, child-friendly animal from going to a home with stairs and children makes no sense to me.

A policy that prevents a non-special-needs home from adopting any of their animals simply ensures that all the animals have to wait longer before being placed. The normal animal who would do very well in a home with stairs, kids, or a bit of daytime solitude, and who does not require a special-needs-friendly home, is prevented from getting a perfectly good home in which he or she would thrive. Meanwhile the animal with hip dysplasia or knee problems due to inbreeding, who genuinely can't handle stairs, has to wait even longer because families with a stairless, special-needs-friendly home are going to snap up the normal, healthy animal instead. Having the animals around for longer no doubt suits the hoarder-fosterers just fine.

Things like stairs are silly to me.  I have a dog who won't do stairs (okay, he will go up carpeted stairs, but that's it).  I live in a split level house, 5 hardwood stairs to go up (bedrooms), 5 carpeted stairs to go down (family room) from the main level (kitchen, living room).  He basically stays on the 'main' level all of the time, unless we carry him (he weighs 12 lbs) up or down, which we do regularly (he sleeps up, hangs out with us down, etc).  But there's no reason I have to allow my dog access to all parts of my house; if I had a 100lb dog and he could only be on the main level, that's far from an issue in my mind, especially versus say, living in a shelter or being destroyed. 
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: iris lily on May 05, 2017, 08:44:44 AM
It's interesting to see all the other members here who also report bizarre and irrational behavior while attempting to add a rescued animal to their lives, AND the folks who can rationalize and explain away every strange and unreasonable behavior. Birds of a feather, perhaps.

 Thank God I never end up with a dog breed that can never be left alone while the family is at work and school, cannot be exposed to the horrors of children, other pets, stairs, lack of fencing, or denied the perfect suburban existence. You know, the kind you only find in sitcoms on the rerun channels. Hell, here in the real world, these mythical dogs are pretty rare, but oddly enough, rescue organizations are apparently awash in them. Hum, makes you wonder how many dogs never find a decent home since the bat shit crazy leadership can't seem to find the specific nirvana their animals apparently can't live without? I wonder how many of these places end up with taxpayer money to engage in this silliness?

I can think of plausible reasons why an *individual animal* might have any of the above restrictions due to health or behavioral problems, and there's something to be said for matching an animal's needs and restrictions with what a prospective adopter can provide, but having a blanket policy that prevents a healthy, child-friendly animal from going to a home with stairs and children makes no sense to me.

A policy that prevents a non-special-needs home from adopting any of their animals simply ensures that all the animals have to wait longer before being placed. The normal animal who would do very well in a home with stairs, kids, or a bit of daytime solitude, and who does not require a special-needs-friendly home, is prevented from getting a perfectly good home in which he or she would thrive. Meanwhile the animal with hip dysplasia or knee problems due to inbreeding, who genuinely can't handle stairs, has to wait even longer because families with a stairless, special-needs-friendly home are going to snap up the normal, healthy animal instead. Having the animals around for longer no doubt suits the hoarder-fosterers just fine.

Uh, you have fallen for paddedhat's overgeneralization about rescue groups. He has an axe to grind (otherwise know as "an opinion") and that is fine, this is America, God Bless it! Sing it, sister.

 Having been involved in rescue for 25 years I inow that yes  there is plenty of crazy well as averice in this biz.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on May 05, 2017, 01:13:30 PM
It's interesting to see all the other members here who also report bizarre and irrational behavior while attempting to add a rescued animal to their lives, AND the folks who can rationalize and explain away every strange and unreasonable behavior. Birds of a feather, perhaps.

 Thank God I never end up with a dog breed that can never be left alone while the family is at work and school, cannot be exposed to the horrors of children, other pets, stairs, lack of fencing, or denied the perfect suburban existence. You know, the kind you only find in sitcoms on the rerun channels. Hell, here in the real world, these mythical dogs are pretty rare, but oddly enough, rescue organizations are apparently awash in them. Hum, makes you wonder how many dogs never find a decent home since the bat shit crazy leadership can't seem to find the specific nirvana their animals apparently can't live without? I wonder how many of these places end up with taxpayer money to engage in this silliness?

I can think of plausible reasons why an *individual animal* might have any of the above restrictions due to health or behavioral problems, and there's something to be said for matching an animal's needs and restrictions with what a prospective adopter can provide, but having a blanket policy that prevents a healthy, child-friendly animal from going to a home with stairs and children makes no sense to me.

A policy that prevents a non-special-needs home from adopting any of their animals simply ensures that all the animals have to wait longer before being placed. The normal animal who would do very well in a home with stairs, kids, or a bit of daytime solitude, and who does not require a special-needs-friendly home, is prevented from getting a perfectly good home in which he or she would thrive. Meanwhile the animal with hip dysplasia or knee problems due to inbreeding, who genuinely can't handle stairs, has to wait even longer because families with a stairless, special-needs-friendly home are going to snap up the normal, healthy animal instead. Having the animals around for longer no doubt suits the hoarder-fosterers just fine.

Uh, you have fallen for paddedhat's overgeneralization about rescue groups. He has an axe to grind (otherwise know as "an opinion") and that is fine, this is America, God Bless it! Sing it, sister.

 Having been involved in rescue for 25 years I inow that yes  there is plenty of crazy well as averice in this biz.

I don't see direct personal experience as having "fallen for" somebody else's overgeneralization.

Most of the four-legged animals I've kept have been surplus animals from unexpected litters or else rescues of some kind. I definitely agree with you on the "plenty of crazy" part because I've seen it in action. I'm looking to double up on my Chihuahua action. There's one group in town I'm hoping very much to work with once I get this next spate of travel over with, but before I found them I ran into some of the counterproductive behaviors I mentioned earlier.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: jinga nation on May 05, 2017, 02:09:49 PM
It's interesting to see all the other members here who also report bizarre and irrational behavior while attempting to add a rescued animal to their lives, AND the folks who can rationalize and explain away every strange and unreasonable behavior. Birds of a feather, perhaps.

 Thank God I never end up with a dog breed that can never be left alone while the family is at work and school, cannot be exposed to the horrors of children, other pets, stairs, lack of fencing, or denied the perfect suburban existence. You know, the kind you only find in sitcoms on the rerun channels. Hell, here in the real world, these mythical dogs are pretty rare, but oddly enough, rescue organizations are apparently awash in them. Hum, makes you wonder how many dogs never find a decent home since the bat shit crazy leadership can't seem to find the specific nirvana their animals apparently can't live without? I wonder how many of these places end up with taxpayer money to engage in this silliness?

I can think of plausible reasons why an *individual animal* might have any of the above restrictions due to health or behavioral problems, and there's something to be said for matching an animal's needs and restrictions with what a prospective adopter can provide, but having a blanket policy that prevents a healthy, child-friendly animal from going to a home with stairs and children makes no sense to me.

A policy that prevents a non-special-needs home from adopting any of their animals simply ensures that all the animals have to wait longer before being placed. The normal animal who would do very well in a home with stairs, kids, or a bit of daytime solitude, and who does not require a special-needs-friendly home, is prevented from getting a perfectly good home in which he or she would thrive. Meanwhile the animal with hip dysplasia or knee problems due to inbreeding, who genuinely can't handle stairs, has to wait even longer because families with a stairless, special-needs-friendly home are going to snap up the normal, healthy animal instead. Having the animals around for longer no doubt suits the hoarder-fosterers just fine.

Things like stairs are silly to me.  I have a dog who won't do stairs (okay, he will go up carpeted stairs, but that's it).  I live in a split level house, 5 hardwood stairs to go up (bedrooms), 5 carpeted stairs to go down (family room) from the main level (kitchen, living room).  He basically stays on the 'main' level all of the time, unless we carry him (he weighs 12 lbs) up or down, which we do regularly (he sleeps up, hangs out with us down, etc).  But there's no reason I have to allow my dog access to all parts of my house; if I had a 100lb dog and he could only be on the main level, that's far from an issue in my mind, especially versus say, living in a shelter or being destroyed.

Now you're just enabling that dog! (I kid, I kid)
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: iris lily on May 05, 2017, 03:19:43 PM
It's interesting to see all the other members here who also report bizarre and irrational behavior while attempting to add a rescued animal to their lives, AND the folks who can rationalize and explain away every strange and unreasonable behavior. Birds of a feather, perhaps.

 Thank God I never end up with a dog breed that can never be left alone while the family is at work and school, cannot be exposed to the horrors of children, other pets, stairs, lack of fencing, or denied the perfect suburban existence. You know, the kind you only find in sitcoms on the rerun channels. Hell, here in the real world, these mythical dogs are pretty rare, but oddly enough, rescue organizations are apparently awash in them. Hum, makes you wonder how many dogs never find a decent home since the bat shit crazy leadership can't seem to find the specific nirvana their animals apparently can't live without? I wonder how many of these places end up with taxpayer money to engage in this silliness?

I can think of plausible reasons why an *individual animal* might have any of the above restrictions due to health or behavioral problems, and there's something to be said for matching an animal's needs and restrictions with what a prospective adopter can provide, but having a blanket policy that prevents a healthy, child-friendly animal from going to a home with stairs and children makes no sense to me.

A policy that prevents a non-special-needs home from adopting any of their animals simply ensures that all the animals have to wait longer before being placed. The normal animal who would do very well in a home with stairs, kids, or a bit of daytime solitude, and who does not require a special-needs-friendly home, is prevented from getting a perfectly good home in which he or she would thrive. Meanwhile the animal with hip dysplasia or knee problems due to inbreeding, who genuinely can't handle stairs, has to wait even longer because families with a stairless, special-needs-friendly home are going to snap up the normal, healthy animal instead. Having the animals around for longer no doubt suits the hoarder-fosterers just fine.

Things like stairs are silly to me.  I have a dog who won't do stairs (okay, he will go up carpeted stairs, but that's it).  I live in a split level house, 5 hardwood stairs to go up (bedrooms), 5 carpeted stairs to go down (family room) from the main level (kitchen, living room).  He basically stays on the 'main' level all of the time, unless we carry him (he weighs 12 lbs) up or down, which we do regularly (he sleeps up, hangs out with us down, etc).  But there's no reason I have to allow my dog access to all parts of my house; if I had a 100lb dog and he could only be on the main level, that's far from an issue in my mind, especially versus say, living in a shelter or being destroyed.

No, the stairs issue isnt silly.. You are thinking only of the interior of a single family house, apparently.
There are other variations. Agreed that it doesnt hurt your tiny dog to stay on one floor.

I am fostering a rescue dog right now who is frail, elderly, and a hospice dog. She is 35-40 40 lbs. We sometimes carry her down the 3 steps of our back porch, and we always carry her up the 4 steps of our front door. Apartments without elevators, high decks that lead down to a yard are two places she couldnt go u less smeone was willing to carry her each and every time.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: lexde on May 05, 2017, 08:17:11 PM
Funny, I adopted a purebred Malinois that probably would have cost $1500-2000 to pick up from a breeder. I don't know why people think that for some reason they can't adopt purebred dogs. I wasn't shopping for a "sale" on a purebred, just happened to find her, but still.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: MgoSam on May 08, 2017, 02:06:55 PM
On Friday I went to a drive in movie theater, my friend organized a group. I found out there that one of their friends was planning on going but couldn't, "she had to drive to Texas."

I was intrigued so asked about it casually and found out that she's picking up a puppy. Being someone that loves dogs, I wanted to know what breed and my friend said, "A poodle and maltese mix."

My next question is, "Oh how cute, is she picking it up from a shelter?" And my friend shook his head, "She's picking it up from a breeder."

I couldn't control my shock, WTF! Why would you drive all the way down to Texas from Minnesota to pick up a mixed breed dog from a breeder? There may be something I missed like the breeder is her sister, or something that might put it into more context but I just can't imagine driving that far. I know there are tons of breeders here in Minnesota for mixed breed because I was dead-set in getting a puppy from a breeder a few years ago and thankfully I didn't.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: iris lily on May 09, 2017, 08:50:37 AM
On Friday I went to a drive in movie theater, my friend organized a group. I found out there that one of their friends was planning on going but couldn't, "she had to drive to Texas."

I was intrigued so asked about it casually and found out that she's picking up a puppy. Being someone that loves dogs, I wanted to know what breed and my friend said, "A poodle and maltese mix."

My next question is, "Oh how cute, is she picking it up from a shelter?" And my friend shook his head, "She's picking it up from a breeder."

I couldn't control my shock, WTF! Why would you drive all the way down to Texas from Minnesota to pick up a mixed breed dog from a breeder? There may be something I missed like the breeder is her sister, or something that might put it into more context but I just can't imagine driving that far. I know there are tons of breeders here in Minnesota for mixed breed because I was dead-set in getting a puppy from a breeder a few years ago and thankfully I didn't.

And thats not even a legitimate breeder. Breeders of quality dogs do not purposely create mixed breeds. But whatever, it is is what it is. The market for certain dogs is much bigger than the numner that can be produced by quality breeders.

In my breed, bulldogs, we have " color breeders" who are producing trendy black and white dogs. One of the Kardashians got one of these dogs and now they are very popular. I fostered one little guy who was barely recognizable as as bulldog (yes, he had AKC papers, perhaps forged)  ut boy he was cute and black and white. He looked like a Boston Terrier on steroids. He got a home bery quickly because he is young and healthy and !TRENDY! We did t even put him up on our Rescue site, we try to downplay that color chit.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: marcela on May 09, 2017, 02:50:06 PM
On Friday I went to a drive in movie theater, my friend organized a group. I found out there that one of their friends was planning on going but couldn't, "she had to drive to Texas."

I was intrigued so asked about it casually and found out that she's picking up a puppy. Being someone that loves dogs, I wanted to know what breed and my friend said, "A poodle and maltese mix."

My next question is, "Oh how cute, is she picking it up from a shelter?" And my friend shook his head, "She's picking it up from a breeder."

I couldn't control my shock, WTF! Why would you drive all the way down to Texas from Minnesota to pick up a mixed breed dog from a breeder? There may be something I missed like the breeder is her sister, or something that might put it into more context but I just can't imagine driving that far. I know there are tons of breeders here in Minnesota for mixed breed because I was dead-set in getting a puppy from a breeder a few years ago and thankfully I didn't.

It's a malti-poo! Gosh don't you know how special those are. You can't just get any dog, jeez. /sarcasm
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: ketchup on May 09, 2017, 03:17:11 PM
On Friday I went to a drive in movie theater, my friend organized a group. I found out there that one of their friends was planning on going but couldn't, "she had to drive to Texas."

I was intrigued so asked about it casually and found out that she's picking up a puppy. Being someone that loves dogs, I wanted to know what breed and my friend said, "A poodle and maltese mix."

My next question is, "Oh how cute, is she picking it up from a shelter?" And my friend shook his head, "She's picking it up from a breeder."

I couldn't control my shock, WTF! Why would you drive all the way down to Texas from Minnesota to pick up a mixed breed dog from a breeder? There may be something I missed like the breeder is her sister, or something that might put it into more context but I just can't imagine driving that far. I know there are tons of breeders here in Minnesota for mixed breed because I was dead-set in getting a puppy from a breeder a few years ago and thankfully I didn't.

It's a malti-poo! Gosh don't you know how special those are. You can't just get any dog, jeez. /sarcasm
I know any designer "breed" is special enough that the owners get butthurt when a vet tech writes "Mixed Breed" on their paperwork.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: RetiredAt63 on May 09, 2017, 06:18:32 PM
I know any designer "breed" is special enough that the owners get butthurt when a vet tech writes "Mixed Breed" on their paperwork.
[/quote]

Some breeds started out as planned crosses.  Dobermans, for example.  But in those cases it was planned, the goals were clear and the breeding was controlled until the new breed was consistent.  Unless someone is doing the same with these crosses, they are just crosses for the cuteness of it.

Stopping before this turns into a 5 paragraph rant.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: 10dollarsatatime on May 09, 2017, 10:02:24 PM
we have a purebred goldendoodle.  I was against spending the money we did, but honestly the "less shedding" aspect is the only reason why I can keep him in my house with the allergies I have.

No such thing as a 'purebred' goldendoodle.  It's a designer dog, at best.  That for some reason is more expensive than a purebred standard poodle.

My dogs are papered purebreds... adopted for $80 all in from a family who didn't have time for them anymore.  I love these guys, but couldn't imagine paying full akc prices for them.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: KBecks on May 10, 2017, 05:54:04 AM
We had DNA testing on our recent adult dog adoption and found she's 100%  American Staffordshire Terrier (street name, pitbull?) She has a few scars on her head and front legs, upper body.   Perhaps I'll get nerdy and get her an AKC purbred alternative listing if we ever do AKC agility. 
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: GuitarStv on May 10, 2017, 06:19:42 AM
I've had purebred dogs from reputable breeders and I've had mixed breed dogs from the pound.

A reputable breeder can tell you the health problems of the puppy you're thinking of purchasing for multiple generations back.  They can do this because breeding choices are complicated and determined to improve the health of the line of dogs.  A reputable breeder will refund your money no questions asked, at any time after you purchase the dog if you don't want it any more for any reason.  You might have to wait several years to get a dog from a reputable breeder, and will be able to get dozens of references from them.  The breeder will certainly want to get to know you, and may reject you after you meet.  Paying a lot for a dog doesn't mean you're getting the dog from a reputable breeder (the high price tag is why so many people with no idea what they're doing pretend to be reputable breeders and produce thousands of dogs with health problems every year).  Most the issues being described in this thread related to pure-bred dogs doesn't apply to reputable breeders.

Mixed breed dogs don't have a breeder carefully selecting parent pedigree.  You might end up with a healthy dog, or you might not.  The idea that mixed breeds are healthier than purebreds is a myth.  I've had lovely dogs that unfortunately ended up with many health problems that were mixed breed from the pound.

I'd always recommend that people check out the pound first because there are so many great dogs who are abandoned every year, (and it's also much less expensive than going with a breeder) . . . but some of the ideas in this thread seem a bit off base.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: paddedhat on May 10, 2017, 06:29:01 AM


Uh, you have fallen for paddedhat's overgeneralization about rescue groups. He has an axe to grind (otherwise know as "an opinion") and that is fine, this is America, God Bless it! Sing it, sister.

 Having been involved in rescue for 25 years I inow that yes  there is plenty of crazy well as averice in this biz.


Got a bit of a silent smirk from this.

 I discuss some of my pass experience with the wacky world of  irrational "Rescuer" behavior. You label it as overgeneralization, and claim I have an axe to grind. Then proceed to confirm my experience based on 25 years of  being a rescuer. 

As the song says, "Isn't it ironic?"

I almost forgot my best rescuer story. My brother's  Ex, mother of his child, would actually fit the profile of a "baby's momma" better than than most. With no job, no income, and  the motivation of a stump. She squeaks by in life with handouts from baby's daddy, her family, and the government.  Her house stinks from dog shit, and her dining room is so full of plastic dog carriers that they are stacked. She keeps at least half a dozen rescue dogs at a time. She "fosters" for a local rescue agency. They typically come for a nearby, extremely impoverished city, and all qualify as aggressive breeds. If she wasn't "In" with the rescue crowd, she would end up on the local news as the local humane society empties the home out, with the cameras rolling. She would be labeled a crazy dog hoarder, and fined,  but no, she is one of the good ones...........

Yea, I know, that's just me unfairly judging and overgeneralizing.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: MgoSam on May 13, 2017, 10:14:42 AM
Funny, I adopted a purebred Malinois that probably would have cost $1500-2000 to pick up from a breeder. I don't know why people think that for some reason they can't adopt purebred dogs. I wasn't shopping for a "sale" on a purebred, just happened to find her, but still.

Pics? Malinois are an absolutely gorgeous breed and incredibly smart.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: iris lily on May 13, 2017, 10:25:23 AM


Uh, you have fallen for paddedhat's overgeneralization about rescue groups. He has an axe to grind (otherwise know as "an opinion") and that is fine, this is America, God Bless it! Sing it, sister.

 Having been involved in rescue for 25 years I inow that yes  there is plenty of crazy well as averice in this biz.


Got a bit of a silent smirk from this.

 I discuss some of my pass experience with the wacky world of  irrational "Rescuer" behavior. You label it as overgeneralization, and claim I have an axe to grind. Then proceed to confirm my experience based on 25 years of  being a rescuer. 

As the song says, "Isn't it ironic?"

I almost forgot my best rescuer story. My brother's  Ex, mother of his child, would actually fit the profile of a "baby's momma" better than than most. With no job, no income, and  the motivation of a stump. She squeaks by in life with handouts from baby's daddy, her family, and the government.  Her house stinks from dog shit, and her dining room is so full of plastic dog carriers that they are stacked. She keeps at least half a dozen rescue dogs at a time. She "fosters" for a local rescue agency. They typically come for a nearby, extremely impoverished city, and all qualify as aggressive breeds. If she wasn't "In" with the rescue crowd, she would end up on the local news as the local humane society empties the home out, with the cameras rolling. She would be labeled a crazy dog hoarder, and fined,  but no, she is one of the good ones...........

Yea, I know, that's just me unfairly judging and overgeneralizing.

Well, its more like 5% are batshit to the point of non-functionality,  another 15%-25% are absurdly focused to a point of impracticality. But the majority of people in animal rescue are a version of normal.

I am shaking my head about an interaction I had with someone on Nextdoor about his "rescue" efforts.He, or his organization (I cant tell which) gets mill reject puppies "about to be euthanized" and sells them for the price of veterinary costs  to non profit organizations to use in their fundriasing auctions. Oy vey. There are a few red flags here although paddedhat probably camt see them.
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: paddedhat on May 13, 2017, 12:11:19 PM

Well, its more like 5% are batshit to the point of non-functionality,  another 15%-25% are absurdly focused to a point of impracticality. But the majority of people in animal rescue are a version of normal.

I am shaking my head about an interaction I had with someone on Nextdoor about his "rescue" efforts.He, or his organization (I cant tell which) gets mill reject puppies "about to be euthanized" and sells them for the price of veterinary costs  to non profit organizations to use in their fundriasing auctions. Oy vey. There are a few red flags here although paddedhat probably camt see them.

I'm not quite sure why, if you rank yourself among the "normal" crowd, you find the continual lame pot-shots directed at me to be necessary? This isn't Reddit, grown up interaction is encouraged.  BTW, I live in ground zero of the PA. Amish puppy mill disaster area, so there is nothing about a puppy mill, be it located in Arkansas, or here in Lancaster County, PA. that would shock me in the least. The misguided antics of a significant portion of the wacky world of rescuers are at least typically directed toward the right goals, primarily doing the right thing for defenseless animals. When it comes to puppy mills, it's quite the opposite. The sad part is that the local Amish are now using very net savvy intermediaries to market their mill puppies on slick websites, claiming that they are all "home raised with the family". They have also taken some of the worst operations to backwoods areas of the deep south since they have a lot more freedom to be as unethical as they want, with nobody to stop them. Cheaper to run a horrible operation in an quiet hollow in twittlefuck Missouri, and ship the pups up to the northeast, than take the chance of being caught, fined, and shut-down in this area.

The saddest part of a misguided scheme to rescue puppy mill cull dogs is that you unwittingly enable the horrible practices in the the first place. By willingly removing dogs that were going to be killed, you are complacent in lessening the horror of the whole operation. The operator wouldn't have a problem doing a mass euthanasia of a group of  cull dogs, but would prefer to avoid the publicity and legal issues of being caught doing so.  Think of how fortunate he is that some wacko rescuer shows up to take the problem off his hands?
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: lexde on August 12, 2017, 03:59:22 PM
Funny, I adopted a purebred Malinois that probably would have cost $1500-2000 to pick up from a breeder. I don't know why people think that for some reason they can't adopt purebred dogs. I wasn't shopping for a "sale" on a purebred, just happened to find her, but still.

Pics? Malinois are an absolutely gorgeous breed and incredibly smart.
She's the best.

(https://image.ibb.co/iUJzev/12719473_10209167853255960_1211621284126958222_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Purebred puppies
Post by: Pigeon on August 12, 2017, 04:29:18 PM
That face!