Author Topic: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not  (Read 32369 times)

trailrated

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People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« on: April 24, 2015, 09:28:53 AM »
Feel free to add your own.

First off the top of my head is someone that just bought a new hybrid to "save money on gas" when they had a completely paid off car that got 32mpg and could have easily gotten another 100,000 miles on it.

BlueHouse

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2015, 09:42:21 AM »
uh, me. 

I really and truly believed that I was for many years.  Now I'm just hoping that some of this shit rubs off on me. 

Basically, I pack my lunch for work, don't drink coffee, and keep a car at least 10 years.  That's what made me think I was frugal.  I'm learning. 

Bracken_Joy

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2015, 09:54:15 AM »
My mom is your classic, "but I bought it on SALE! I don't want to LOSE money!" as she buys some totally unnecessary stuff. Those marketers have a really good grasp of human psychology, I tell you what.

MgoSam

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2015, 11:35:07 AM »
Feel free to add your own.

First off the top of my head is someone that just bought a new hybrid to "save money on gas" when they had a completely paid off car that got 32mpg and could have easily gotten another 100,000 miles on it.

One of my closest friends' husband bough her a Prius. She was driving a 10 year old (I think) Honda Accord at the time. Yesterday she was telling me how proud she was that they had cash reserves cause they just needed to buy a new battery for the car ($4000).

MLKnits

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2015, 11:37:46 AM »
uh, me. 

I really and truly believed that I was for many years.  Now I'm just hoping that some of this shit rubs off on me. 

Basically, I pack my lunch for work, don't drink coffee, and keep a car at least 10 years.  That's what made me think I was frugal.  I'm learning.

High five to that. I thought buying a brand-new Civic instead of leasing a luxury car was frugal. Definitely still learning.

(I'm trying to think of people in my life, but most of them don't claim frugality, or I don't see enough of their lifestyle to judge them.)

Daley

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2015, 11:43:04 AM »
Feel free to add your own.

First off the top of my head is someone that just bought a new hybrid to "save money on gas" when they had a completely paid off car that got 32mpg and could have easily gotten another 100,000 miles on it.

Similar could be said about some of the mobile phone crowd here as well when they switch to "save money", especially when it involves that particular hybrid MVNO that our host recommends... or any provider that they deliberately switch to where they can't take their existing phone with for that matter.

FatCat

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2015, 11:56:42 AM »
Feel free to add your own.

First off the top of my head is someone that just bought a new hybrid to "save money on gas" when they had a completely paid off car that got 32mpg and could have easily gotten another 100,000 miles on it.

People think that it's a smart idea to buy a new car once you've paid off the old one because that way you don't get used to the extra money being available each month. So if you have a $300 car payment and you just paid it off, you need to look for a new car with a similar payment before you become accustomed to the extra $300 being available and lifestyle inflation "prevents" you from buying a new car when you do need one.

So if that person was following this logic, then they did the smart thing by not allowing themselves to become accustomed to extra money being available, and they've cut down the cost of gas.

A lot of people also tend to see their currently paid off car as worthless now and get horrible trade in value for it.

Hunny156

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2015, 12:21:37 PM »
Totally me!  I always thought I was pretty frugal, and I was a whiz at scoring bargains.  I used to proudly tell people, it's not what you spend, it's what you save!  I used to also consider going to the mall a weekly activity, just to browse.

These days a mall makes me antsy, so many people in a confined space.  I still score deals, but it's with a lot of thought and care, really making sure I need the item in question.

Candace

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2015, 12:36:53 PM »
I don't think most people who are targeted by this thread would claim to be frugal, even if they wanted to. The word has negative connotations to most of society.

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2015, 01:04:12 PM »
Feel free to add your own.

First off the top of my head is someone that just bought a new hybrid to "save money on gas" when they had a completely paid off car that got 32mpg and could have easily gotten another 100,000 miles on it.

One of my closest friends' husband bough her a Prius. She was driving a 10 year old (I think) Honda Accord at the time. Yesterday she was telling me how proud she was that they had cash reserves cause they just needed to buy a new battery for the car ($4000).

How old was the Prius? Gen IIs usually go 200,000+ on the original batteries. Ours is a 2007 that has 160,000 and counting.

Similar could be said about some of the mobile phone crowd here as well when they switch to "save money", especially when it involves that particular hybrid MVNO that our host recommends... or any provider that they deliberately switch to where they can't take their existing phone with for that matter.

We get it. You don't like Republic Wireless. I will continue paying $12/month for their service and not giving shit if you think it makes me a spendthrift.

MOD NOTE: Be nice please. Forum rule #1. Thanks. :)
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 02:09:47 PM by arebelspy »

gimp

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2015, 02:35:57 PM »
Feel free to add your own.

First off the top of my head is someone that just bought a new hybrid to "save money on gas" when they had a completely paid off car that got 32mpg and could have easily gotten another 100,000 miles on it.

Similar could be said about some of the mobile phone crowd here as well when they switch to "save money", especially when it involves that particular hybrid MVNO that our host recommends... or any provider that they deliberately switch to where they can't take their existing phone with for that matter.

Dead horse, meet daily's fist.

Daley

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2015, 02:49:44 PM »
Dead horse, meet daily's fist.

Well if the noobs didn't keep trying to string up and reanimate the blasted corpse...

MgoSam

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2015, 02:55:35 PM »
Feel free to add your own.

First off the top of my head is someone that just bought a new hybrid to "save money on gas" when they had a completely paid off car that got 32mpg and could have easily gotten another 100,000 miles on it.

One of my closest friends' husband bough her a Prius. She was driving a 10 year old (I think) Honda Accord at the time. Yesterday she was telling me how proud she was that they had cash reserves cause they just needed to buy a new battery for the car ($4000).

How old was the Prius? Gen IIs usually go 200,000+ on the original batteries. Ours is a 2007 that has 160,000 and counting.

I don't know. I suspect that it is maybe 5 years old, but I could be wrong? I don't know anything about hybrids, but maybe it was past warranty and stopped working? How long do warranties on Prius batteries last? Of course, it could have been a used car.

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2015, 03:06:14 PM »
Feel free to add your own.

First off the top of my head is someone that just bought a new hybrid to "save money on gas" when they had a completely paid off car that got 32mpg and could have easily gotten another 100,000 miles on it.

Similar could be said about some of the mobile phone crowd here as well when they switch to "save money", especially when it involves that particular hybrid MVNO that our host recommends... or any provider that they deliberately switch to where they can't take their existing phone with for that matter.

Dead horse, meet daily's fist.

I wish I were wittier, because then I could say humorous things like this instead of sounding like a dick.

Sorry I.P. (and arebelspy), I think I came across differently than I intended.

TexasStash

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2015, 03:14:43 PM »
Feel free to add your own.

First off the top of my head is someone that just bought a new hybrid to "save money on gas" when they had a completely paid off car that got 32mpg and could have easily gotten another 100,000 miles on it.

One of my closest friends' husband bough her a Prius. She was driving a 10 year old (I think) Honda Accord at the time. Yesterday she was telling me how proud she was that they had cash reserves cause they just needed to buy a new battery for the car ($4000).

How old was the Prius? Gen IIs usually go 200,000+ on the original batteries. Ours is a 2007 that has 160,000 and counting.

I don't know. I suspect that it is maybe 5 years old, but I could be wrong? I don't know anything about hybrids, but maybe it was past warranty and stopped working? How long do warranties on Prius batteries last? Of course, it could have been a used car.

Don't know whether this translates perfectly or not, but we bought a Certified Pre Owned 2013 Toyota Prius last year, and part of the package was an 8 year warranty (from manufacture date of course) on the battery. So, clearly Toyota expects their batteries to usually last longer than 8 years from when they're made. I think a 5 year old Prius would be same Prius generation (think that generation started in 2009), so should be somewhat similar. I'm at least feeling good that mine will be covered till 2021 and hopefully last well past that.

Jags4186

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2015, 03:21:01 PM »
I attended a happy hour last night for a coworker who was leaving. So many people were claiming to be trying to "save money" yet were pounding back expensive fancy drinks and ordering food. I had one $3 beer on special then went home and ate leftovers.

WerKater

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2015, 03:26:58 AM »
People think that it's a smart idea to buy a new car once you've paid off the old one because that way you don't get used to the extra money being available each month. So if you have a $300 car payment and you just paid it off, you need to look for a new car with a similar payment before you become accustomed to the extra $300 being available and lifestyle inflation "prevents" you from buying a new car when you do need one.
Is this your interpretation or have people actually told you that they believe this? Because that is seriously one of the most insane things I have ever heard...

MgoSam

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2015, 06:39:09 AM »
Feel free to add your own.

First off the top of my head is someone that just bought a new hybrid to "save money on gas" when they had a completely paid off car that got 32mpg and could have easily gotten another 100,000 miles on it.

One of my closest friends' husband bough her a Prius. She was driving a 10 year old (I think) Honda Accord at the time. Yesterday she was telling me how proud she was that they had cash reserves cause they just needed to buy a new battery for the car ($4000).

How old was the Prius? Gen IIs usually go 200,000+ on the original batteries. Ours is a 2007 that has 160,000 and counting.

I don't know. I suspect that it is maybe 5 years old, but I could be wrong? I don't know anything about hybrids, but maybe it was past warranty and stopped working? How long do warranties on Prius batteries last? Of course, it could have been a used car.

Don't know whether this translates perfectly or not, but we bought a Certified Pre Owned 2013 Toyota Prius last year, and part of the package was an 8 year warranty (from manufacture date of course) on the battery. So, clearly Toyota expects their batteries to usually last longer than 8 years from when they're made. I think a 5 year old Prius would be same Prius generation (think that generation started in 2009), so should be somewhat similar. I'm at least feeling good that mine will be covered till 2021 and hopefully last well past that.

Yeah, I probably should have asked about the warranty on the battery but we were talking about something else at the time. That said, this friend tends to get very combative and defense whenever I (or anyone) gives her a suggestion or asks questions that might lead to her having made a mistake.

On a separate note, for you two and other Prius owners, what are your thoughts overall? My Camry only has 140,000 miles, so I'm not looking at all to change, but are you happy with it? Do you recommend it? Is it a worthwhile car in terms of cost/effectiveness?

Zamboni

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2015, 07:31:26 AM »
Frugal is a continuum, from one side of extremely frugal (e.g. using washable rags instead of toilet paper) to the other side of not frugal at all (I would say the bulk of Americans live closer to this side.)

I used to be fairly frugal out of necessity.  Now I don't have to be frugal but some of those frugal habits followed me to my current life in the lap of luxury.  My mom and one of my friends are both still quite frugal and that puts what I do in perspective for me every time I see them. I used to have a co-worker who would claim frugality because she drove an older Kia but in every other aspect of her life she was a spendypants.  It was a bit nauseating to listen to her talk about how smart she is with money.

Quote
People think that it's a smart idea to buy a new car once you've paid off the old one because that way you don't get used to the extra money being available each month. So if you have a $300 car payment and you just paid it off, you need to look for a new car with a similar payment before you become accustomed to the extra $300 being available and lifestyle inflation "prevents" you from buying a new car when you do need one.

This is crazy talk, but I'm not surprised at all if some people believe this and even share this wisdom with those around them.

On the car front, I have a 2002 Prius (Gen1) that I bought a few years ago used.  It had 180K miles on it at the time, but the price was right and I had the cash.  It's up to 215K miles and going strong, just doing routine maintenance and no sign of major problems.  Before I bought it I found a Consumer Reports test of a 200K mileage Gen1 Prius that detected almost no change in performance from when it was new (they tested the same car at low mileage and high mileage.) 

MoneyCat

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2015, 08:24:48 AM »
Feel free to add your own.

First off the top of my head is someone that just bought a new hybrid to "save money on gas" when they had a completely paid off car that got 32mpg and could have easily gotten another 100,000 miles on it.

One of my closest friends' husband bough her a Prius. She was driving a 10 year old (I think) Honda Accord at the time. Yesterday she was telling me how proud she was that they had cash reserves cause they just needed to buy a new battery for the car ($4000).

Wow, they must have bought a really old Prius, because the battery packs are warranteed to 100,000 miles or eight years (150,000 miles in California) and are generally good for at least 200,000 miles.

mm1970

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2015, 09:10:44 AM »
My boss calls himself frugal but buys lunch out every day.

My neighbor was so excited to tell me he picked up my frugal ways and used a Groupon to get a weekend deal at a ski place. But he never used it because there wasn't any snow.

FatCat

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2015, 09:26:26 AM »

Quote
People think that it's a smart idea to buy a new car once you've paid off the old one because that way you don't get used to the extra money being available each month. So if you have a $300 car payment and you just paid it off, you need to look for a new car with a similar payment before you become accustomed to the extra $300 being available and lifestyle inflation "prevents" you from buying a new car when you do need one.

This is crazy talk, but I'm not surprised at all if some people believe this and even share this wisdom with those around them.


I have had more than one person explain this to me over the years. Someone I used to date said it like it's some really good insightful advice once he paid off his car. And a coworker said it again to me recently. I'm wondering if this is some piece of advice that certain families and friends pass on to each other.

Most of the people that graduated college when I did all bought brand new cars when they got their jobs. And this crazy talk came up recently because most of their car loans were ending at about the same time. So this became good advice being passed around. So they are all aware now of lifestyle inflation and how that can hamper you car budgets.

Usually when someone says they're looking for a new car, I ask, "What's wrong with the old one?" because I see their old car is newer than mine. The answer is usually, "Nothing, I just paid it off!"

robotclown

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2015, 11:43:42 PM »
I've met people who claim they're good with money because they got such a good interest rate on their brand new unnecessary $35000 car.  So they have good credit at least, but I'd hesitate to say they're "good with money."

MrsPete

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2015, 05:23:44 AM »
High five to that. I thought buying a brand-new Civic instead of leasing a luxury car was frugal. Definitely still learning.
I bought a brand-new Civic, and it was the right choice.  My old car died (died as in I ended up donating it just to have it towed away from my house without charge), and the price difference between a new Civic and a late-model used Civic was literally less than $1000.  I paid cash for it, and I've been driving it eight years now.  Aside from oil changes and new tires, it's never required any work, and we're coming up on eight years of good service.  I expect to get at least another eight years from it!  Given the same set of circumstances, I'd buy this car again in a heartbeat! 

MrsPete

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2015, 05:26:39 AM »
People think that it's a smart idea to buy a new car once you've paid off the old one because that way you don't get used to the extra money being available each month. So if you have a $300 car payment and you just paid it off, you need to look for a new car with a similar payment before you become accustomed to the extra $300 being available and lifestyle inflation "prevents" you from buying a new car when you do need one.
Is this your interpretation or have people actually told you that they believe this? Because that is seriously one of the most insane things I have ever heard...
I've heard it too.  I've more frequently heard its cousin, "I'm always going to have a car payment anyway, so I figured I'd get the nicer car." 

I've also heard this applied to houses.  For example, "We figure we'll never have an extra 5-10K to spend on upgrading the countertops to granite, so we rolled it into our mortgage." 

And when I was in college, I heard it used to justify larger student loans (though the majority of us were anti-loan /pro-work when I was in school in the late-80s):  "Since I'm borrowing anyway, I decided to take the maximum amount and move out of the dorms."
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 05:30:04 AM by MrsPete »

LalsConstant

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2015, 06:02:23 AM »
I have been called frugal and cheap by other people.  But I consider myself to be Somewhat Mindful but Learning.

Do I consume much which is not strictly necessary?  Yes.  Am I at least considering do I truly see value in doing so and cease consumption for the sake of consumption?  Also yes.

I often think of something my dad told me once.  He was a power distribution engineer.  His company did a study to learn what the main wastes of power were in residential homes.  It wasn't the clothes dryer or incandescent bulbs or phantom loads or any other such thing that MMM likes to rail on either.

It was leaving things on when they should be off.  Two thirds of the waste was just negligence.

I try to apply that principle.  I am not always frugal but I try to be more mindful.

SMCx3

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2015, 06:22:30 AM »
Who are we to judge others? 

If people have found MMM, find ways to live on less, live healthier, increase savings, eliminate debt, does it really matter how frugal he or she decides to live?  I applaud those who can live with so little, but I also believe judging the standards of others around us when it comes to being frugal is a very thin line.  Just because someone bought a new car, exceeded a grocery budget, or bought a Halloween costume for a child does not mean this individual is not frugal.  Sure it might be a bad decision which we all make at some point in our lives, but I do not feel I should be the judge.

I enjoy this community for the wealth of guidance and support it provides.  We have multimillionaires, those struggling to get out of debt, young, old, happy, many making life changes, and those just trying to find a more enjoyable lifestyle.  The fact any of these types of individuals can benefit from this community is what makes this forum so special, not judging how frugal our neighbor is or pretends to be.

Killerbrandt

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2015, 06:28:53 AM »
High five to that. I thought buying a brand-new Civic instead of leasing a luxury car was frugal. Definitely still learning.
I bought a brand-new Civic, and it was the right choice.  My old car died (died as in I ended up donating it just to have it towed away from my house without charge), and the price difference between a new Civic and a late-model used Civic was literally less than $1000.  I paid cash for it, and I've been driving it eight years now.  Aside from oil changes and new tires, it's never required any work, and we're coming up on eight years of good service.  I expect to get at least another eight years from it!  Given the same set of circumstances, I'd buy this car again in a heartbeat!

I bought a new civic also!! It has been 4 years now and nothing has even come close to breaking on it. I have done the oil changes on time and all other little maintenance and everything seems perfect. I also get about 35 to 40 mpg on each trip. Also like you said, a used version at the time was only a couple thousand difference! 

Candace

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2015, 07:51:57 AM »
Who are we to judge others? 

If people have found MMM, find ways to live on less, live healthier, increase savings, eliminate debt, does it really matter how frugal he or she decides to live?  I applaud those who can live with so little, but I also believe judging the standards of others around us when it comes to being frugal is a very thin line.  Just because someone bought a new car, exceeded a grocery budget, or bought a Halloween costume for a child does not mean this individual is not frugal.  Sure it might be a bad decision which we all make at some point in our lives, but I do not feel I should be the judge.

I enjoy this community for the wealth of guidance and support it provides.  We have multimillionaires, those struggling to get out of debt, young, old, happy, many making life changes, and those just trying to find a more enjoyable lifestyle.  The fact any of these types of individuals can benefit from this community is what makes this forum so special, not judging how frugal our neighbor is or pretends to be.

Hear, hear.

mm1970

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2015, 10:31:00 AM »
High five to that. I thought buying a brand-new Civic instead of leasing a luxury car was frugal. Definitely still learning.
I bought a brand-new Civic, and it was the right choice.  My old car died (died as in I ended up donating it just to have it towed away from my house without charge), and the price difference between a new Civic and a late-model used Civic was literally less than $1000.  I paid cash for it, and I've been driving it eight years now.  Aside from oil changes and new tires, it's never required any work, and we're coming up on eight years of good service.  I expect to get at least another eight years from it!  Given the same set of circumstances, I'd buy this car again in a heartbeat!
Yep ours is now 6 years old and never had any problems either.

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2015, 11:34:26 AM »
Me. Definitely me. Bought a slightly used (3K miles) Lotus Elise on credit when I was 23. It was "only" $42,000 at the time. I was making about 50K/yr. and not contributing a penny to the 401K


My excuse was - at least I didn't do something stupid and buy an old Ferrari that needs a $5000 belt service every 15 thousand miles.

I'm now older (32), and wiser (sold the Lotus, and now own a condo that I've already got $50K equity in). I drive a 13-year old BMW that's pushing 200,000 miles, and you'll have to pry it from my cold, dead hands. I do all of my own work on it, recently changed the entire suspension - shocks, control arms, tie rods, end links, front and rear bushings, and re-upholstered the cracked leather driver's seat by buying a better seat from a wrecked BMW for $150 and transplanting the identical leather.


*Sidenote - the Lotus is still the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned. Other than consumables - $1K in tires every year or so (r-compounds last 10,000 miles if you drive on the road, less on the trac) and $400 oil changes (you cant' change the oil without a lift), NOTHING goes wrong on these cars. It's a japanese motor in a glued aluminum / fiberglass body. It simply can't break.

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2015, 01:09:58 PM »
The real definer of who's truly frugal is what they DO with the money they save. A guy who makes $100k a year but lives on 20k sounds frugal.  But if the difference is spent on fast cars or lotto tickets he's not.  A gal with similar income who struggles with a Prada bag addiction but at least puts money in her 401k regularly has better claim to the label. 

trailrated

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2015, 01:32:29 PM »
Who are we to judge others? 

If people have found MMM, find ways to live on less, live healthier, increase savings, eliminate debt, does it really matter how frugal he or she decides to live?  I applaud those who can live with so little, but I also believe judging the standards of others around us when it comes to being frugal is a very thin line.  Just because someone bought a new car, exceeded a grocery budget, or bought a Halloween costume for a child does not mean this individual is not frugal.  Sure it might be a bad decision which we all make at some point in our lives, but I do not feel I should be the judge.

I enjoy this community for the wealth of guidance and support it provides.  We have multimillionaires, those struggling to get out of debt, young, old, happy, many making life changes, and those just trying to find a more enjoyable lifestyle.  The fact any of these types of individuals can benefit from this community is what makes this forum so special, not judging how frugal our neighbor is or pretends to be.

OP here, was meant more to laugh at the people that claim to be frugal cause they bought something they don't need because it was "on sale, or such a good deal". For anyone actively working to improve themselves...KUDOS, regardless of how mustachian you may me. I admit I could be better on many things.

Avidconsumer

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2015, 01:53:31 PM »
People think that it's a smart idea to buy a new car once you've paid off the old one because that way you don't get used to the extra money being available each month. So if you have a $300 car payment and you just paid it off, you need to look for a new car with a similar payment before you become accustomed to the extra $300 being available and lifestyle inflation "prevents" you from buying a new car when you do need one.
Is this your interpretation or have people actually told you that they believe this? Because that is seriously one of the most insane things I have ever heard...

As messed up as this sounds, it makes sense. The point of it is that if you say have $1000 disposable income every month and this suddenly becomes $1300, because you paid off your car. You will spend more and when you need a new car, you will have to cut back spending to afford it.

Now lets say you take that extra money and rent an apartment for 300$ more a month. Then your car breaks down and you need a new one. You now cant afford that apartment, because you will need to finance another car.

I'm not saying its a good idea, but for the average pay check to pay check guy, I bet it works.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 02:02:10 PM by Avidconsumer »

FatCat

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2015, 02:20:40 PM »
People think that it's a smart idea to buy a new car once you've paid off the old one because that way you don't get used to the extra money being available each month. So if you have a $300 car payment and you just paid it off, you need to look for a new car with a similar payment before you become accustomed to the extra $300 being available and lifestyle inflation "prevents" you from buying a new car when you do need one.
Is this your interpretation or have people actually told you that they believe this? Because that is seriously one of the most insane things I have ever heard...

As messed up as this sounds, it makes sense. The point of it is that if you say have $1000 disposable income every month and this suddenly becomes $1300, because you paid off your car. You will spend more and when you need a new car, you will have to cut back spending to afford it.

Now lets say you take that extra money and rent an apartment for 300$ more a month. Then your car breaks down and you need a new one. You now cant afford that apartment, because you will need to finance another car.

I'm not saying its a good idea, but for the average pay check to pay check guy, I bet it works.

The people passing this bit of wisdom around are very much paycheck to paycheck people. I've also heard restaurants used as an example. So lets say you have an extra $300 a month available so you start eating out 10 times a month at $30 a pop. Ten times a month is like about three days. That's quite a lot of eating out. Let say you do this for several month and it just feel like "normal routine" now. When it's time to buy a new car you have become accustomed to eating out all the time and will feel like you're depriving yourself if you cut back. So it's better to just buy a car quickly before you acclimate to the new disposable income being available.

One guy that thought this was great advice also told me he makes his big purchases on the two extra paycheck months of the year. I didn't know what that even meant. There are two months in the year when you get 3 paychecks in that monthly period. Since he plans all his expenses on monthly payment, he sees that as bonus spending money and buys expensive things with it that they wouldn't otherwise buy. That 3rd paycheck month is like a mini Christmas to him.

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2015, 02:31:05 PM »
While we're on the subject, It looks like I should finally have my townhouse rented for $1295, after several months of suckage (vacancy). I guess the only financially responsible thing to do now is finance a Tesla. You know, so I don't get used to wasting that new income on frivolous things....

FatCat

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2015, 02:38:20 PM »
While we're on the subject, It looks like I should finally have my townhouse rented for $1295, after several months of suckage (vacancy). I guess the only financially responsible thing to do now is finance a Tesla. You know, so I don't get used to wasting that new income on frivolous things....

Sound advice! I see nothing that could go wrong with this plan.

MrsPete

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2015, 09:17:46 PM »
I bought a new civic also!! It has been 4 years now and nothing has even come close to breaking on it. I have done the oil changes on time and all other little maintenance and everything seems perfect. I also get about 35 to 40 mpg on each trip. Also like you said, a used version at the time was only a couple thousand difference!
No, not a couple thousand -- the total price difference between new and use was less than $1000.  I do think I bought at kind of an odd time; it was just about the time people were accepting that $4 gas was "the new normal", and lots of people were buying small cars for their mileage -- so this car was in demand. 

WerKater

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2015, 11:57:38 PM »
People think that it's a smart idea to buy a new car once you've paid off the old one because that way you don't get used to the extra money being available each month. So if you have a $300 car payment and you just paid it off, you need to look for a new car with a similar payment before you become accustomed to the extra $300 being available and lifestyle inflation "prevents" you from buying a new car when you do need one.
Is this your interpretation or have people actually told you that they believe this? Because that is seriously one of the most insane things I have ever heard...

As messed up as this sounds, it makes sense. The point of it is that if you say have $1000 disposable income every month and this suddenly becomes $1300, because you paid off your car. You will spend more and when you need a new car, you will have to cut back spending to afford it.

Now lets say you take that extra money and rent an apartment for 300$ more a month. Then your car breaks down and you need a new one. You now cant afford that apartment, because you will need to finance another car.

I'm not saying its a good idea, but for the average pay check to pay check guy, I bet it works.

Yeah, I sort of get the general idea. But that just makes it particularly weird to me because it betrays that there was actually some rational thought that went into this. And then at some random point the rationality went completely out the window. Unless we assume that the genius that thought of this has absolutely no idea of the concept of saving. And I mean not in the sense that they think something like "saving is impossible for an average person since live is too expensive". But in the sense that they have no clue that the concept of saving exists at all. If you assume that all of the money that comes in each month also has to be spent in that very month, then the train of thought is suddenly perfectly logical.

cerebus

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2015, 04:22:33 AM »
- People who let their kids dress in hand-me-downs that are basically rags because they're trying to save, but they look like they stepped out of a Gucci catalogue.

- People who spend an extra R100000 ($8000) to get a car with better fuel consumption than their current, paid-up vehicle. Then say they don't feel it because since they paid off some other debt, the vehicle debit leaves their budget the same as before.


kite

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2015, 05:16:35 AM »
Bulk buyers at Costco or Sam's Club who load up "because it's cheaper to stockpile" according to them.  I put a lot of coupon users in this category, too. 
I've been there myself and would likely still be convinced of the superiority of buying in bulk until a layoff and hurricane convinced me otherwise.  When your income unexpectedly drop to zero, you realize the folly of spending your savings on toothpaste you won't need for four months, and paying a membership fee for the privelege!  When the power goes out for long enough to thaw everything in the freezer, that beef or chicken tenders is no longer a bargain.  It, plus the money to run that extra appliance is money down the drain.  The big-box shopping mentality has people convinced they need bigger cars, bigger homes with a second fridge in the garage for beverages, and a freezer in the basement....because they're saving money. 
Bag of lentils = frugal.
Family package of pork chop for a 2 person household?  Not so much.

cerebus

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2015, 06:03:13 AM »
Bulk buyers at Costco or Sam's Club who load up "because it's cheaper to stockpile" according to them.  I put a lot of coupon users in this category, too. 
I've been there myself and would likely still be convinced of the superiority of buying in bulk until a layoff and hurricane convinced me otherwise.  When your income unexpectedly drop to zero, you realize the folly of spending your savings on toothpaste you won't need for four months, and paying a membership fee for the privelege!  When the power goes out for long enough to thaw everything in the freezer, that beef or chicken tenders is no longer a bargain.  It, plus the money to run that extra appliance is money down the drain.  The big-box shopping mentality has people convinced they need bigger cars, bigger homes with a second fridge in the garage for beverages, and a freezer in the basement....because they're saving money. 
Bag of lentils = frugal.
Family package of pork chop for a 2 person household?  Not so much.


What about if there's a deep discount on a certain kind of meat, which happens from time to time? I reckon it's quite frugal to stock up then, especially if it can feed you for months. I know someone who will buy an entire lamb to freeze when the price bottoms out. Meat pricing is quite cyclical and you can do pretty well if you take advantage of it.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2015, 08:25:41 AM »
Bulk buyers at Costco or Sam's Club who load up "because it's cheaper to stockpile" according to them.  I put a lot of coupon users in this category, too. 
I've been there myself and would likely still be convinced of the superiority of buying in bulk until a layoff and hurricane convinced me otherwise.  When your income unexpectedly drop to zero, you realize the folly of spending your savings on toothpaste you won't need for four months, and paying a membership fee for the privelege!  When the power goes out for long enough to thaw everything in the freezer, that beef or chicken tenders is no longer a bargain.  It, plus the money to run that extra appliance is money down the drain.  The big-box shopping mentality has people convinced they need bigger cars, bigger homes with a second fridge in the garage for beverages, and a freezer in the basement....because they're saving money. 
Bag of lentils = frugal.
Family package of pork chop for a 2 person household?  Not so much.

What are your thoughts then on canning? Years that I couldn't put in my own garden I could still buy green beans and asparagus very cheap and in bulk at costco to can for the year. Also all the ingredients for spaghetti sauce and chili, which I can either freeze or can.

frugalnacho

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2015, 08:43:22 AM »
Bulk buyers at Costco or Sam's Club who load up "because it's cheaper to stockpile" according to them.  I put a lot of coupon users in this category, too. 
I've been there myself and would likely still be convinced of the superiority of buying in bulk until a layoff and hurricane convinced me otherwise.  When your income unexpectedly drop to zero, you realize the folly of spending your savings on toothpaste you won't need for four months, and paying a membership fee for the privelege!  When the power goes out for long enough to thaw everything in the freezer, that beef or chicken tenders is no longer a bargain.  It, plus the money to run that extra appliance is money down the drain.  The big-box shopping mentality has people convinced they need bigger cars, bigger homes with a second fridge in the garage for beverages, and a freezer in the basement....because they're saving money. 
Bag of lentils = frugal.
Family package of pork chop for a 2 person household?  Not so much.

Uh...what?  This is utter nonsense.  I've done the math and I purchase things at a lower unit price by buying in bulk. 

This is like saying exercise and healthy living is bullshit.  I mean I used to be convinced of it, then BAM I got run over by a bus and died.

Cookie78

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2015, 09:00:32 AM »
Bulk buyers at Costco or Sam's Club who load up "because it's cheaper to stockpile" according to them.  I put a lot of coupon users in this category, too. 
I've been there myself and would likely still be convinced of the superiority of buying in bulk until a layoff and hurricane convinced me otherwise.  When your income unexpectedly drop to zero, you realize the folly of spending your savings on toothpaste you won't need for four months, and paying a membership fee for the privelege!  When the power goes out for long enough to thaw everything in the freezer, that beef or chicken tenders is no longer a bargain.  It, plus the money to run that extra appliance is money down the drain.  The big-box shopping mentality has people convinced they need bigger cars, bigger homes with a second fridge in the garage for beverages, and a freezer in the basement....because they're saving money. 
Bag of lentils = frugal.
Family package of pork chop for a 2 person household?  Not so much.

Uh...what?  This is utter nonsense.  I've done the math and I purchase things at a lower unit price by buying in bulk. 

This is like saying exercise and healthy living is bullshit.  I mean I used to be convinced of it, then BAM I got run over by a bus and died.

LOL. :D

Giro

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2015, 09:19:01 AM »
People think that it's a smart idea to buy a new car once you've paid off the old one because that way you don't get used to the extra money being available each month. So if you have a $300 car payment and you just paid it off, you need to look for a new car with a similar payment before you become accustomed to the extra $300 being available and lifestyle inflation "prevents" you from buying a new car when you do need one.
Is this your interpretation or have people actually told you that they believe this? Because that is seriously one of the most insane things I have ever heard...

As messed up as this sounds, it makes sense. The point of it is that if you say have $1000 disposable income every month and this suddenly becomes $1300, because you paid off your car. You will spend more and when you need a new car, you will have to cut back spending to afford it.

Now lets say you take that extra money and rent an apartment for 300$ more a month. Then your car breaks down and you need a new one. You now cant afford that apartment, because you will need to finance another car.

I'm not saying its a good idea, but for the average pay check to pay check guy, I bet it works.

The people passing this bit of wisdom around are very much paycheck to paycheck people. I've also heard restaurants used as an example. So lets say you have an extra $300 a month available so you start eating out 10 times a month at $30 a pop. Ten times a month is like about three days. That's quite a lot of eating out. Let say you do this for several month and it just feel like "normal routine" now. When it's time to buy a new car you have become accustomed to eating out all the time and will feel like you're depriving yourself if you cut back. So it's better to just buy a car quickly before you acclimate to the new disposable income being available.

One guy that thought this was great advice also told me he makes his big purchases on the two extra paycheck months of the year. I didn't know what that even meant. There are two months in the year when you get 3 paychecks in that monthly period. Since he plans all his expenses on monthly payment, he sees that as bonus spending money and buys expensive things with it that they wouldn't otherwise buy. That 3rd paycheck month is like a mini Christmas to him.

On the other hand, when we free up a little cash from the budget (or gain a little extra cash), my husband usually goes to great lengths to ensure we don't need it for something else.  He does this because he knows I will reduce the monthly budget and take that extra cash and throw it in investments thus lowering our budget even more.  It's an opportunity for him to get a little extra luxury or convenience before I grab it away.  :)


Killerbrandt

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #46 on: April 28, 2015, 09:26:15 AM »
I bought a new civic also!! It has been 4 years now and nothing has even come close to breaking on it. I have done the oil changes on time and all other little maintenance and everything seems perfect. I also get about 35 to 40 mpg on each trip. Also like you said, a used version at the time was only a couple thousand difference!
No, not a couple thousand -- the total price difference between new and use was less than $1000.  I do think I bought at kind of an odd time; it was just about the time people were accepting that $4 gas was "the new normal", and lots of people were buying small cars for their mileage -- so this car was in demand.

I was adding after tax, but the price tag was not far off from the used price tags.

sheepstache

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2015, 10:17:57 AM »
I attended a happy hour last night for a coworker who was leaving. So many people were claiming to be trying to "save money" yet were pounding back expensive fancy drinks and ordering food. I had one $3 beer on special then went home and ate leftovers.

I think St. Augustine's cousin said something like, that. "Lord, make me frugal, but not yet."

kite

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2015, 10:48:36 AM »
Bulk buyers at Costco or Sam's Club who load up "because it's cheaper to stockpile" according to them.  I put a lot of coupon users in this category, too. 
I've been there myself and would likely still be convinced of the superiority of buying in bulk until a layoff and hurricane convinced me otherwise.  When your income unexpectedly drop to zero, you realize the folly of spending your savings on toothpaste you won't need for four months, and paying a membership fee for the privelege!  When the power goes out for long enough to thaw everything in the freezer, that beef or chicken tenders is no longer a bargain.  It, plus the money to run that extra appliance is money down the drain.  The big-box shopping mentality has people convinced they need bigger cars, bigger homes with a second fridge in the garage for beverages, and a freezer in the basement....because they're saving money. 
Bag of lentils = frugal.
Family package of pork chop for a 2 person household?  Not so much.

Uh...what?  This is utter nonsense.  I've done the math and I purchase things at a lower unit price by buying in bulk. 

This is like saying exercise and healthy living is bullshit.  I mean I used to be convinced of it, then BAM I got run over by a bus and died.

Clearly, I've hit a nerve.
As with all things, YMMV.
But two not uncommon events showed us that we weren't saving what we'd thought.  Hurricane Sandy wasn't our first extended power outage  (there was an ice storm in the 90's, Floyd in 99, Irene in 2011 plus a few downed trees over the years) but Sandy was the one that made me realize just how useless most of our material goods are, including the foolishness of stockpiling when you live in suburbia.  The capital costs of a freezer plus the kwh costs to run it in a perfect scenario are still $11 per month for us.  We aren't seeing that big a savings each month to buy in bulk on an amount of food we can reasonably expect to consume to shop at Costco; not with Aldi and a farmers market within a mile of our home.

Others asked --
We used to get the whole cow and pig.  Delicious, but not actually frugal.  Frugal was cutting way down on meat in our diet. 
We can fruits and pickle or freeze produce from our garden, but don't use more than the typical refrigerator freezer.  Because we mostly keep it seasonal. 

frugalnacho

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Re: People who claim to be "frugal" but are not
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2015, 11:10:33 AM »
Bulk buyers at Costco or Sam's Club who load up "because it's cheaper to stockpile" according to them.  I put a lot of coupon users in this category, too. 
I've been there myself and would likely still be convinced of the superiority of buying in bulk until a layoff and hurricane convinced me otherwise.  When your income unexpectedly drop to zero, you realize the folly of spending your savings on toothpaste you won't need for four months, and paying a membership fee for the privelege!  When the power goes out for long enough to thaw everything in the freezer, that beef or chicken tenders is no longer a bargain.  It, plus the money to run that extra appliance is money down the drain.  The big-box shopping mentality has people convinced they need bigger cars, bigger homes with a second fridge in the garage for beverages, and a freezer in the basement....because they're saving money. 
Bag of lentils = frugal.
Family package of pork chop for a 2 person household?  Not so much.

Uh...what?  This is utter nonsense.  I've done the math and I purchase things at a lower unit price by buying in bulk. 

This is like saying exercise and healthy living is bullshit.  I mean I used to be convinced of it, then BAM I got run over by a bus and died.

Clearly, I've hit a nerve.
As with all things, YMMV.
But two not uncommon events showed us that we weren't saving what we'd thought.  Hurricane Sandy wasn't our first extended power outage  (there was an ice storm in the 90's, Floyd in 99, Irene in 2011 plus a few downed trees over the years) but Sandy was the one that made me realize just how useless most of our material goods are, including the foolishness of stockpiling when you live in suburbia.  The capital costs of a freezer plus the kwh costs to run it in a perfect scenario are still $11 per month for us.  We aren't seeing that big a savings each month to buy in bulk on an amount of food we can reasonably expect to consume to shop at Costco; not with Aldi and a farmers market within a mile of our home.

Others asked --
We used to get the whole cow and pig.  Delicious, but not actually frugal.  Frugal was cutting way down on meat in our diet. 
We can fruits and pickle or freeze produce from our garden, but don't use more than the typical refrigerator freezer.  Because we mostly keep it seasonal.

It's not so much a nerve,  It's just utter nonsense.  Buying non perishable items for discounted unit prices is anything but a folly, it's just math.  I don't understand how it's even debatable unless you aren't buying at discounted prices (then why are you stocking up?) or are buying/using things you wouldn't normally buy (if you weren't buying in bulk).  As long as the discount you received is larger than the expected return from investment, you should stock up.  Of course don't stock up on toothpaste if you are living paycheck to paycheck and couldn't weather a lay off, but I can't believe that even needs mentioning.

As for the meat, i'm fairly certain I have saved enough money by preplanning meals and buying freezable items in bulk that I could stand to lose the contents of my entire freezer and I would still come out ahead.   You only named 4 disasters over the past 25 years that could have potentially destroyed perishable items in your freezer.  Surely you could have been saving significant amounts of money during that 25 year period and have either afforded the losses, or purchased yourself a generator. 

EDIT: I checked into purchasing a whole cow (or a half, or a quarter) and it was not frugal at all.  I assumed I would be getting a deal by purchasing so much meat at one time, but the unit price was pretty high.  It was a decent price for the steaks and more expensive cuts of meat, but it was way over priced for the cheaper cuts of meat.  Overall it was more expensive than buying all the different cuts piecemeal, and you were forced to take it in proportion that the cow grew it, where as I can just go to costco and buy only my favorite cuts and pass up the cuts I don't favor, and it ends up being cheaper.  Obviously I never ended up purchasing the cow.  The whole thing left me perplexed and I wondered why anyone did when it was more expensive than the grocery store option.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 11:15:58 AM by frugalnacho »