Middle class and broke article

[NYD3030]

When I was on SNAP I continued wearing the nice, clean clothing I had bought before, and I still had the computer I bought before, and I didn't vacate my apartment to live under a bridge.  I probably should have lost my benefits...

[mpbaker22]

I disagree with people who say that SNAP abusers are the exception.  I saw two more women this weekend using SNAP.  One had a coach coin purse (real).  The other had a Luis Vuitton handbag (likely fake, but still).  SNAP is a joke.

And what if they had purchased those items before ever receiving SNAP? Were they supposed to immediately sell/throw them away immediately upon receiving their SNAP card? That way, they'd look poor enough and therefore qualify for our pity and assistance?

The thrift store argument can be legitimate.  This argument is not as it is just saying "person A was incapable of spending their money wisely so we must support them now."  What a silly argument, for this forum too!

[renbutler]

The reason to work is that you want more than 20k, as the vast majority of people do.  There's already enough money generated by the economy to implement it tomorrow morning, especially considering that you would eliminate SS, medicare, snap, tanf, etc.

There is currently a serious jobs shortage and it's only going to get worse.   The workforce participation rate is going down, period.  We must come up with a system to still provide for people as the world further automates.   My solution is mandatory minimum income, yours may very well be soylent green...

Even though I disagree strongly with your proposal, you almost had my respect for posting a serious, intelligent response. Then, well, came the end...

[NYD3030]

The reason to work is that you want more than 20k, as the vast majority of people do.  There's already enough money generated by the economy to implement it tomorrow morning, especially considering that you would eliminate SS, medicare, snap, tanf, etc.

There is currently a serious jobs shortage and it's only going to get worse.   The workforce participation rate is going down, period.  We must come up with a system to still provide for people as the world further automates.   My solution is mandatory minimum income, yours may very well be soylent green...

Even though I disagree strongly with your proposal, you almost had my respect for posting a serious, intelligent response. Then, well, came the end...

Damn, I came so close! ;)

[Joet]

234m americans over 18 [2010 census], *20k ea =$4.7t

GDP $15t (assuming this doesnt dip with the bottom half of the workforce checking out or thereabouts calculating their distance from $20k and adjusting workload, or if implemented on a sliding scale determining their particular work/pay ideal balance)


So I guess it could work. Personally I'm suspecting the '47%'ers or whatever hit-above-their-weight a bit, and dropping them out of the economy and replacing them with a $20k handout would drop our GDP a bit from $15t, making it a approximation equation that eventually stabalizes at a new GDP(t) probably arround $12t or so. Now at this point the economy has a much harder time providing that transfer payment while other social services/needs are met.

Or perhaps it goes the other way, and these people are served by loansharks that offer great financing rates for their super-stable income levels. Perhaps they become an even BETTER consumer and this ticks the GDP up a bit more than expected and everybody wins.

[mpbaker22]

234m americans over 18 [2010 census], *20k ea =$4.7t

GDP $15t (assuming this doesnt dip with the bottom half of the workforce checking out or thereabouts calculating their distance from $20k and adjusting workload, or if implemented on a sliding scale determining their particular work/pay ideal balance)


So I guess it could work. Personally I'm suspecting the '47%'ers or whatever hit-above-their-weight a bit, and dropping them out of the economy and replacing them with a $20k handout would drop our GDP a bit from $15t, making it a approximation equation that eventually stabalizes at a new GDP(t) probably arround $12t or so. Now at this point the economy has a much harder time providing that transfer payment while other social services/needs are met.

Or perhaps it goes the other way, and these people are served by loansharks that offer great financing rates for their super-stable income levels. Perhaps they become an even BETTER consumer and this ticks the GDP up a bit more than expected and everybody wins.

All I know is if I'm getting 20K/year guaranteed, I'm dropping out of the work force immediately.

[NYD3030]

234m americans over 18 [2010 census], *20k ea =$4.7t

GDP $15t (assuming this doesnt dip with the bottom half of the workforce checking out or thereabouts calculating their distance from $20k and adjusting workload, or if implemented on a sliding scale determining their particular work/pay ideal balance)


So I guess it could work. Personally I'm suspecting the '47%'ers or whatever hit-above-their-weight a bit, and dropping them out of the economy and replacing them with a $20k handout would drop our GDP a bit from $15t, making it a approximation equation that eventually stabalizes at a new GDP(t) probably arround $12t or so. Now at this point the economy has a much harder time providing that transfer payment while other social services/needs are met.

Or perhaps it goes the other way, and these people are served by loansharks that offer great financing rates for their super-stable income levels. Perhaps they become an even BETTER consumer and this ticks the GDP up a bit more than expected and everybody wins.

All I know is if I'm getting 20K/year guaranteed, I'm dropping out of the work force immediately.

I would seriously consider joining you.  Or at least leaving my day job and only contracting on the side.

I just foresee a future where we have vastly too many people trying to join an ever-shrinking workforce and I don't know if we're culturally ready to deal with the consequences, given our long history of viewing labor as the purpose of life.  I'm open to other solutions but I'm not sure what other ones exist that don't involve class based methods of reducing the human population.

[Mrs.FamilyFinances]

I have a problem with just about everything Helaine Olen ever writes.  If you want a synopsis of any of her articles, here it is:

"People cant' save and they don't have any money and it's not their fault.  The personal finance industry is BS and financial literacy is hooey.  People are making all the right decisions and their spending is fine.  The real reasons people are in bad financial shape are high student loans, evil banks, the government and healthcare and there's nothing anybody can do about it.  So let's all just complain and complain and try to get legislation passed that will fix America."

+1. She is the pits. Card carrying member of the victims club....