Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 960183 times)

SunnyDays

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2350 on: February 16, 2021, 09:15:12 AM »
Thank you all for your kind words. It has taken me until this last year to just move past some of this and forgive my sister. I think the biggest part of my forgiveness though has revolved around the fact that I need to lower my expectations with her. Sadly, her character has left me with the type of relationship you have with a coworker, not the one we used to have.

When it comes to forgiving someone who will not change his or her behavior, there are two necessary things. First, you have lowered your expectations. Not expecting her to change will save you a huge amount of time and stress. Second, you have put enough distance into the relationship for her behavior to not have a direct effect on you. From that position, it's easy to "forgive" in the sense of not pursuing her for revenge (which doesn't sound like your style anyway) and not investing any more thought or emotional energy into stewing over the initial offense.

Forgiveness doesn't mean you have to give the other person another opportunity to hurt you.


Agree.  Forgiveness is for your sake, so you don't carry around resentment that will only hurt you in the end.  But it's wise not to forget and not to put yourself in any position with her where her character defect(s) can cause you further harm.  It's sad that your relationship with her has been damaged, but she obviously doesn't care enough about that to take responsibility.  Like Maya Angelou said, "When people show you who they are, believe them the first time."

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2351 on: February 16, 2021, 10:30:45 AM »
Thank you all for your kind words. It has taken me until this last year to just move past some of this and forgive my sister. I think the biggest part of my forgiveness though has revolved around the fact that I need to lower my expectations with her. Sadly, her character has left me with the type of relationship you have with a coworker, not the one we used to have.

When it comes to forgiving someone who will not change his or her behavior, there are two necessary things. First, you have lowered your expectations. Not expecting her to change will save you a huge amount of time and stress. Second, you have put enough distance into the relationship for her behavior to not have a direct effect on you. From that position, it's easy to "forgive" in the sense of not pursuing her for revenge (which doesn't sound like your style anyway) and not investing any more thought or emotional energy into stewing over the initial offense.

Forgiveness doesn't mean you have to give the other person another opportunity to hurt you.


Agree.  Forgiveness is for your sake, so you don't carry around resentment that will only hurt you in the end.  But it's wise not to forget and not to put yourself in any position with her where her character defect(s) can cause you further harm.  It's sad that your relationship with her has been damaged, but she obviously doesn't care enough about that to take responsibility.  Like Maya Angelou said, "When people show you who they are, believe them the first time."

It's been a few years so I don't remember where I read it, but one of the most helpful things I've ever read was something like this: "When someone mistreats someone else, with their act they create a negative emotional connection, an emotional debt. Trying to chase after this debt takes a lot of time and energy, and in most cases, this debt can never be fully repaid: the damage cannot be undone or compensated for. When you forgive this debt, you release yourself from the pressure of chasing after it. You no longer have to spend negative energy on someone (wishing someone harm, plotting grevenge) You need to get to a place where you can say: I leave him be. Whatever happens to him, be it good or bad, it's not my concern. When there is no debt, no negative emotional connection, people are free to go their own way, or to resume contact if they want to, without the pressure of the debt".

Someone in my family did awful things to me. At first I was angry of course. But I let it go. I hardly ever even think about that person anymore. If they won the lottery I don't think I'd have hard feelings, but if something awful happened to them I wouldn't be dancing on their grave either. It's just not a matter of concern for my anymore.

My family member is still angry with me though. Even though they have not even attempted to pay back the emotional debt - although it can never be repaid fully you could think of plenty of ways to start "repayments", first of all by acknowledging the existence of the debt - they are demanding "forgiveness" from me like I owe them something. I have forgiven them years and years ago. But "forgiveness" doesn't mean "everything is in the past, let's do what we always did'. It just means "I accept you cannot ever pay this back, so you don't have to and I'll be fine, and what happens to you is of no concern to me". When you forgive an actual loan you also don't have to go and lend money to that person again. You just have accepted that they aren't going to pay it back, and can either continue to see them or not. It's the same for an emotional debt.

AMandM

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2352 on: February 16, 2021, 03:34:46 PM »
That was a great quote, Imma. It also highlights that letting go of the debt in no way implies any consent to more debt in the future!
 
Even though they have not even attempted to pay back the emotional debt - although it can never be repaid fully you could think of plenty of ways to start "repayments", first of all by acknowledging the existence of the debt - they are demanding "forgiveness" from me like I owe them something.

So often, when a wrongdoer asks for forgiveness, what they really want is whitewashing. They want to be told that they don't owe anything because they never did, instead of recognizing that you have released them from the debt.

saguaro

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2353 on: February 17, 2021, 12:19:36 PM »
Quote from: Finances_With_Purpose link=topic=48800.msg2793262#msg2793262 ate=1613426431


All money does is magnify what's already there: for bad character, it's just a greater opportunity to do wrong.  As they did to you.  (And for good character, it's the opposite.) 
[...]money doesn't make people do anything that they wouldn't already do.  It just makes it easier.

I am curious: For those of you who've had to deal with crazy inheritance drama, was the crazy behaviour a bolt from the blue, brought into being as it were by the prospect of money? Or was is merely a larger-scale version of previous attitudes and patterns, magnified by the prospect of money?

Magnification, in my experience, over and over again. 

Now, there is once in a while an appearance that something is new when someone who had that kernel of a lout all along finally goes all in now that there's suddenly more to gain (e.g. the drunk who realizes that stealing will solve his financial problems caused by drinking), and folks who didn't know him/her well think it must have been the money, while folks who've known the person well aren't that surprised.

Also agree that in my experience it was magnification when it came to executor sister. 

Now in the beginning, I was hoping that she would do the right thing, especially since her role was now a legal responsibility and that same responsibility would ensure she would do things properly.  At the very least, I thought simple greed would get her to resolve things quickly because she was always stressing about "the money" when our parents were alive and pushed both me and youngest sister to pay some funeral costs in order to have "more money left for Dad" which she, of course, had control over.  But no, IMHO having control of our parents' estate was a playground for her controlling and bullying personality, a way to punish me and my younger sister over various "wrongs" either to her or our parents.   The money was a tool of that control, she was a beneficiary as well as executor which meant her decisions affected all of us.   She racked up costs while finding ways to reimburse herself or just flat out didn't account for things altogether. 

One of the very few relatives who knew the situation asked me how my late parents would have felt about getting an attorney to force the house sale.   My answer was "they would have not liked it but they shouldn't have been surprised". 
« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 12:39:12 PM by saguaro »

mm1970

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2354 on: February 17, 2021, 01:55:50 PM »
Quote
My family member is still angry with me though. Even though they have not even attempted to pay back the emotional debt - although it can never be repaid fully you could think of plenty of ways to start "repayments", first of all by acknowledging the existence of the debt - they are demanding "forgiveness" from me like I owe them something. I have forgiven them years and years ago. But "forgiveness" doesn't mean "everything is in the past, let's do what we always did'. It just means "I accept you cannot ever pay this back, so you don't have to and I'll be fine, and what happens to you is of no concern to me". When you forgive an actual loan you also don't have to go and lend money to that person again. You just have accepted that they aren't going to pay it back, and can either continue to see them or not. It's the same for an emotional debt.
This is well said.  I've been reading some comments here and there about Justin Timberlake and Britney Spears of late.  Full disclosure: I don't know enough about either of them to know the full history, nor do I care to.  But apparently, he's apologized.

A significant percentage of headlines have been of the "too little, too late".  Is it really?  Do we REALLY want to say that people can't change, can't have regret, can't be better people?  Sure, in some cases, friends think it's "fake" and he's just trying to save himself from a business standpoint.  (Again, I don't know enough about the situation to know if that is true or false.)  What bothered me is the idea that we don't allow people to become better people.  We don't acknowledge that.

NOW, that doesn't mean she owes him forgiveness.  She owes him nothing.  Donald Trump could become Mother Teresa and I'd never forgive him for being an asshat narcissist.  It doesn't mean he shouldn't become a better person.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2355 on: February 17, 2021, 02:41:27 PM »
With the Britney Spears thing, I also saw that Perez Hilton is now expressing regret for the way he covered her.  However, none of these people would have said a thing if the documentary hadn't come out.  They are only apologizing because they were "caught" not because they genuinely regret the way they behaved.

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2356 on: February 18, 2021, 05:47:05 AM »
I have not really followed the Britney documentary, but from what I believe she herself did not participate? So this is an outsider's view, and not necessarily her own view, right?

That said, I was a teenager when Britney and Justin were the most famous teen couple in the world, so I do remember a bit. In my country there's no viriginity cult like in the US so we were all very confused by why her virginity was such a big deal.  They had a long-term relationship and in our country, it would be the most normal thing if they eventually discovered sexuality together.

It must have been so confusing for her, to present as sexually provocative to an adult audience, which in itself is pretty sickening, regardless of whether she was a virgin or not, and to pretend she was a virgin and a good christian girl outside of the stage. But I also feel bad for teenage Justin. He was also a child star, growing up in the media. He didn't have to pretend he was a virgin because he was a boy, but I feel he was probably also under pressure to show he was a "red-blooded male"  and not a "sissy" who didn't sleep with his gorgeous girlfriend. In his position it was expected from him to brag about sexual conquests, because that's what we expect from handsome young men with lots of female admirers. They were just two teenagers and both of them were probably suffering from gendered expectations. Of course, being a woman, Britney got the worst of it.

I totally agree with you @Hula Hoop that public apologies in the media don't usually mean much. Maybe the documentary opened their eyes, maybe not, maybe they've felt bad about this for a long time, maybe they feel bad they got caught. I just hope that if any of them have anything to say they also reached out to Britney (and other people who got hurt) directly. It would be none of our business of course, but that's the only kind of apology that would mean something.

@AMandM Yes, whitewashing is the good word for my family member's behaviour. That's what they want. There's no genuine regret. But true regret can and does happen, like you said @mm1970 . It doesn't happen often in my experience, but it can happen. My partner also has a relative who has treated him badly in the past. They got in touch again after a few decades and the family member fully recognized what they did and apologized for it. It was clear it was hard for them to do, but they did it anyway. We're a few years later now and that family member is still putting in so much effort into healing this relationship. They're still making an effort, for example reading up on things that interest my partner so they can discuss them together. The past can't be changed but my partner is so happy that this person is trying so hard to be a better person now.

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2357 on: February 20, 2021, 04:05:52 AM »
So back to the box that of all the things his father owned, was the only thing he really made sure to give to his son while he was still alive. Bf opens the box, and what is in it?
Why, the wedding photos to the second wife. Not a long marriage, a few years, but he kept the photos for 25 years.

Did your bf have a close relationship with the second wife? If not, then that just seems weird to be the one thing he carefully gave his son.

livesimplecolorado

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2358 on: February 25, 2021, 08:59:12 AM »

I am curious: For those of you who've had to deal with crazy inheritance drama, was the crazy behaviour a bolt from the blue, brought into being as it were by the prospect of money? Or was is merely a larger-scale version of previous attitudes and patterns, magnified by the prospect of money?

To answer your question, it was completely uncharacteristic. We had what appeared to be a decent relationship prior. There were some cracks in the relationship prior but nothing that made me think that this is what would happen.

As a matter of fact, when they were both appointed POA I trusted them completely. Never questioned any decisions.

The problem I think stemmed from the fact that they always seemed to have financial drama. I think the financial drama put them over the edge. I know my sister had some resentment towards me because my husband and I had money, a home, investments because she would complain to my mother all the time. However, she never realized how much we busted our hump to have anything. When my husband and I met we had nothing.

They always aspired to live above their means and seemed concerned with what others thought of them too. Who knows, like I said, money makes people do crazy shit.

« Last Edit: February 25, 2021, 09:02:16 AM by livesimplecolorado »

Sibley

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2359 on: February 25, 2021, 09:08:22 AM »
It's actually not surprising that there's so much hinkyness wtih inheritances, especially executors. There's been a lot of research done into fraud and what leads to it. It takes 3 basic things - pressure, opportunity, and justification. Being an executor is opportunity. Financial problems or just plain old grief are pressures. Justification - well, mommy loved me more so I deserve it/mommy loved me less so I deserve it etc work just fine. It's probably more surprising that there are any instances where there isn't fraud.

livesimplecolorado

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2360 on: February 25, 2021, 09:15:26 AM »
Great @livesimplecolorado .  I got the sense that you had things together already, and I'm glad to hear that you do.  And I meant no criticism, either: it is genuinely hard dealing with folks who behave in those ways.  There's a reason that society often imprison people who act with that kind of disregard for others...

Thank you, and I did not take it as criticism at all. If anything, after all these years, it has been a learning experience for me. For a long time, I grieved the relationship with my sister. But now, it feels honest. I looked at everything through rose-colored glasses with her. The reality was that she always looked down on me and my husband and I never saw it. My friend said once that she underestimated me, thought they could get away with all of it. Perhaps she thought i was less intelligent or "sloppy." Who knows.

The last few months she has been putting a ton of effort into something, some kind of friendship, who knows. I also think she realizes I am indifferent to it, so maybe that is the reason? Guilt could be another, although she would never admit that. Indifference is a good place for me with her right now.

livesimplecolorado

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2361 on: February 25, 2021, 09:18:15 AM »
It's actually not surprising that there's so much hinkyness wtih inheritances, especially executors. There's been a lot of research done into fraud and what leads to it. It takes 3 basic things - pressure, opportunity, and justification. Being an executor is opportunity. Financial problems or just plain old grief are pressures. Justification - well, mommy loved me more so I deserve it/mommy loved me less so I deserve it etc work just fine. It's probably more surprising that there are any instances where there isn't fraud.

I agree with this. Entitlement really is the main issue. I was executor, I could have been so unethical, but I did what was right. So many people do the opposite though.

Scotts

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2362 on: February 25, 2021, 11:35:52 PM »


To answer your question, it was completely uncharacteristic. We had what appeared to be a decent relationship prior. There were some cracks in the relationship prior but nothing that made me think that this is what would happen.

As a matter of fact, when they were both appointed POA I trusted them completely. Never questioned any decisions.

The problem I think stemmed from the fact that they always seemed to have financial drama. I think the financial drama put them over the edge. I know my sister had some resentment towards me because my husband and I had money, a home, investments because she would complain to my mother all the time. However, she never realized how much we busted our hump to have anything. When my husband and I met we had nothing.

They always aspired to live above their means and seemed concerned with what others thought of them too. Who knows, like I said, money makes people do crazy shit.

Money is just a tool, not a cause. It has no bias one way or the other. Having it simply allows someone the freedom to make any decision they choose, good or bad.

saguaro

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2363 on: February 26, 2021, 09:47:02 AM »
Thank you, and I did not take it as criticism at all. If anything, after all these years, it has been a learning experience for me. For a long time, I grieved the relationship with my sister. But now, it feels honest. I looked at everything through rose-colored glasses with her. The reality was that she always looked down on me and my husband and I never saw it. My friend said once that she underestimated me, thought they could get away with all of it. Perhaps she thought i was less intelligent or "sloppy." Who knows.

Dealing with my sister over the last 6 years opened my eyes to how she really thinks and operates.    She has always been, to put it charitably, the source of much hand wringing by our parents but still when she had POA and then became executor, I didn't think she would stoop to fraud and outright theft.   I trusted she would do the right thing because it was our parents' estate.  To hear her tell it, she shouldered "all this responsibility", playing the martyr as opposed to me and my younger sister, but in discovering what I did while selling my parents' home it was pretty much a front for her to take what she wanted.  There are major questions over her handling of my dad's finances, after forcing an accounting from her (btw she was in violation of state law as well as blowing off the annual accounting provision in my parents' trust) but we were only entitled to see what she did as executor not when she had my dad's financial POA. 

All through this she exhibited outright hostility towards us and to this day, while she is making efforts to repair things, that hostility still is apparent, she can blow up at the littlest things.   I have gone through therapy to talk about what happened and while things have been patched up to some extent (for my nephews' sake tbh) I am not certain what the future holds.  I certainly can never trust her again. Covid has made it easy to keep my distance but once it's safe to have family gatherings I am not sure how much I want to see her except in group settings.   
« Last Edit: February 26, 2021, 09:49:07 AM by saguaro »

Psychstache

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2364 on: February 26, 2021, 02:27:32 PM »
She has always been, to put it charitably, the source of much hand wringing by our parents...

Pressure

she had POA and then became executor..

Opportunity


To hear her tell it, she shouldered "all this responsibility", playing the martyr as opposed to me and my younger sister...

Justification

saguaro

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2365 on: February 26, 2021, 03:36:34 PM »
She has always been, to put it charitably, the source of much hand wringing by our parents...
Pressure

she had POA and then became executor..
Opportunity

To hear her tell it, she shouldered "all this responsibility", playing the martyr as opposed to me and my younger sister...
Justification

Exactly all these things.   

Being tagged by my parents as the more difficult aka "Bad Daughter" earlier in life I believe this set her on the road to proving herself otherwise (in her view) while at the same time seeking compensation of sorts from them when she had the chance via financial POA and executor. 



TomTX

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2366 on: February 27, 2021, 08:33:38 PM »
Condolences that your sister is a thief who isn't above ripping off family and still emotionally abuses the family.

ZCP may be in order.