Author Topic: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)  (Read 287501 times)

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #800 on: April 10, 2020, 11:48:17 PM »
We live on a hill. Our neighbors have two driveways - one for the house, and below that, one for the shop. They’re about 75 feet apart, and maybe 15 feet difference in elevation. Over the weekend, I watched out neighbor drive her large SUV between the house and the shop and back to avoid walking down the path between the two buildings. They do this all the time. They’re overweight, he has heart problems (in his 40’s), and they bring it all upon themselves.

Are we sure she didn't have a truck load of stuff to transport from one place to another?

Of course not that would ruin all the fun of watching your neighbors closely and judging them

(Taran said they do it all the time though)

To me it would be more of a pain in the arse getting in the truck, turning it around, driving, parking etc etc blah blah.

marty998

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #801 on: April 11, 2020, 09:00:03 PM »
We live on a hill. Our neighbors have two driveways - one for the house, and below that, one for the shop. They’re about 75 feet apart, and maybe 15 feet difference in elevation. Over the weekend, I watched out neighbor drive her large SUV between the house and the shop and back to avoid walking down the path between the two buildings. They do this all the time. They’re overweight, he has heart problems (in his 40’s), and they bring it all upon themselves.

Are we sure she didn't have a truck load of stuff to transport from one place to another?

Of course not that would ruin all the fun of watching your neighbors closely and judging them

(Taran said they do it all the time though)

To me it would be more of a pain in the arse getting in the truck, turning it around, driving, parking etc etc blah blah.

A part of me wonders how long it takes to haul their asses into said truck. I feel like that is rude of me though :/

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #802 on: April 13, 2020, 12:34:43 PM »
We live on a hill. Our neighbors have two driveways - one for the house, and below that, one for the shop. They’re about 75 feet apart, and maybe 15 feet difference in elevation. Over the weekend, I watched out neighbor drive her large SUV between the house and the shop and back to avoid walking down the path between the two buildings. They do this all the time. They’re overweight, he has heart problems (in his 40’s), and they bring it all upon themselves.

Are we sure she didn't have a truck load of stuff to transport from one place to another?

Of course not that would ruin all the fun of watching your neighbors closely and judging them

(Taran said they do it all the time though)

To me it would be more of a pain in the arse getting in the truck, turning it around, driving, parking etc etc blah blah.

A part of me wonders how long it takes to haul their asses into said truck. I feel like that is rude of me though :/
Can we get a video feed of this? it'd be hilarious.

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #803 on: April 16, 2020, 08:47:53 AM »
We live on a hill. Our neighbors have two driveways - one for the house, and below that, one for the shop. They’re about 75 feet apart, and maybe 15 feet difference in elevation. Over the weekend, I watched out neighbor drive her large SUV between the house and the shop and back to avoid walking down the path between the two buildings. They do this all the time. They’re overweight, he has heart problems (in his 40’s), and they bring it all upon themselves.

This reminds me of my neighbor, an older lady who goes for a nice walk around the neighborhood each day. She drives from her apartment to higher level parking lot to then get out and go about her walk. The elevation change might be 30 feet and we're talking a less than 20 second drive.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #804 on: April 16, 2020, 08:53:36 AM »
We live on a hill. Our neighbors have two driveways - one for the house, and below that, one for the shop. They’re about 75 feet apart, and maybe 15 feet difference in elevation. Over the weekend, I watched out neighbor drive her large SUV between the house and the shop and back to avoid walking down the path between the two buildings. They do this all the time. They’re overweight, he has heart problems (in his 40’s), and they bring it all upon themselves.

This reminds me of my neighbor, an older lady who goes for a nice walk around the neighborhood each day. She drives from her apartment to higher level parking lot to then get out and go about her walk. The elevation change might be 30 feet and we're talking a less than 20 second drive.

Now that I  have lived with really crappy knees, I am much more sympathetic to these situations.  People can look fine and be in pain.

marty998

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #805 on: April 17, 2020, 06:58:25 PM »
We live on a hill. Our neighbors have two driveways - one for the house, and below that, one for the shop. They’re about 75 feet apart, and maybe 15 feet difference in elevation. Over the weekend, I watched out neighbor drive her large SUV between the house and the shop and back to avoid walking down the path between the two buildings. They do this all the time. They’re overweight, he has heart problems (in his 40’s), and they bring it all upon themselves.

This reminds me of my neighbor, an older lady who goes for a nice walk around the neighborhood each day. She drives from her apartment to higher level parking lot to then get out and go about her walk. The elevation change might be 30 feet and we're talking a less than 20 second drive.

Now that I  have lived with really crappy knees, I am much more sympathetic to these situations.  People can look fine and be in pain.

Am I being a jerk to suggest the knees might not be so bad with the odd walk up a hill to strengthen the ligaments every now and again?

RetiredAt63

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #806 on: April 17, 2020, 07:45:07 PM »
We live on a hill. Our neighbors have two driveways - one for the house, and below that, one for the shop. They’re about 75 feet apart, and maybe 15 feet difference in elevation. Over the weekend, I watched out neighbor drive her large SUV between the house and the shop and back to avoid walking down the path between the two buildings. They do this all the time. They’re overweight, he has heart problems (in his 40’s), and they bring it all upon themselves.

This reminds me of my neighbor, an older lady who goes for a nice walk around the neighborhood each day. She drives from her apartment to higher level parking lot to then get out and go about her walk. The elevation change might be 30 feet and we're talking a less than 20 second drive.

Now that I  have lived with really crappy knees, I am much more sympathetic to these situations.  People can look fine and be in pain.

Am I being a jerk to suggest the knees might not be so bad with the odd walk up a hill to strengthen the ligaments every now and again?

Probably.  You don't know their situation.  It's like people who look perfectly healthy and use the handicapped parking spot - if they have the permit they need it, no matter how healthy they look.  My Mom looked really healthy and she had a horrible heart, thanks to rheumatic fever as a kid when there were no antibiotics.

When my knees were at their worst I would have been your neighbours.  It took about 6 months of physiotherapy for me to walk without too much pain.  Damaged medial ligaments, torn menisci, plus osteoarthritis in both kneecaps.  Just wear and tear of daily life.  Before my knees got bad I walked the dog for kilometers.  I used to cross-country ski, I gardened, I was active.  If they need physiotherapy I would guess they are not getting it at the moment.  Or they may have COPD or bad hearts.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #807 on: April 18, 2020, 03:01:25 AM »
We live on a hill. Our neighbors have two driveways - one for the house, and below that, one for the shop. They’re about 75 feet apart, and maybe 15 feet difference in elevation. Over the weekend, I watched out neighbor drive her large SUV between the house and the shop and back to avoid walking down the path between the two buildings. They do this all the time. They’re overweight, he has heart problems (in his 40’s), and they bring it all upon themselves.

This reminds me of my neighbor, an older lady who goes for a nice walk around the neighborhood each day. She drives from her apartment to higher level parking lot to then get out and go about her walk. The elevation change might be 30 feet and we're talking a less than 20 second drive.

Now that I  have lived with really crappy knees, I am much more sympathetic to these situations.  People can look fine and be in pain.

Am I being a jerk to suggest the knees might not be so bad with the odd walk up a hill to strengthen the ligaments every now and again?

Going uphill is fine. Coming down hill, even a relatively low gradient, is tough on knees. You'd be surprised how uncertain older folk can be with changes of gradient also. Once your balance is a tiny bit off and your reactions are a little less certain, sometimes its just not worth the risk. If she's older, I wouldn't be questioning why she drives that bit.

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #808 on: April 18, 2020, 04:44:37 AM »
We live on a hill. Our neighbors have two driveways - one for the house, and below that, one for the shop. They’re about 75 feet apart, and maybe 15 feet difference in elevation. Over the weekend, I watched out neighbor drive her large SUV between the house and the shop and back to avoid walking down the path between the two buildings. They do this all the time. They’re overweight, he has heart problems (in his 40’s), and they bring it all upon themselves.

This reminds me of my neighbor, an older lady who goes for a nice walk around the neighborhood each day. She drives from her apartment to higher level parking lot to then get out and go about her walk. The elevation change might be 30 feet and we're talking a less than 20 second drive.

Now that I  have lived with really crappy knees, I am much more sympathetic to these situations.  People can look fine and be in pain.

Am I being a jerk to suggest the knees might not be so bad with the odd walk up a hill to strengthen the ligaments every now and again?

Probably.  You don't know their situation.  It's like people who look perfectly healthy and use the handicapped parking spot - if they have the permit they need it, no matter how healthy they look.  My Mom looked really healthy and she had a horrible heart, thanks to rheumatic fever as a kid when there were no antibiotics.

When my knees were at their worst I would have been your neighbours.  It took about 6 months of physiotherapy for me to walk without too much pain.  Damaged medial ligaments, torn menisci, plus osteoarthritis in both kneecaps.  Just wear and tear of daily life.  Before my knees got bad I walked the dog for kilometers.  I used to cross-country ski, I gardened, I was active.  If they need physiotherapy I would guess they are not getting it at the moment.  Or they may have COPD or bad hearts.
second that.
One knee has muscle damage, arthritis, no cartilage and minimal knee lining. plus the kneecap is out of place. You can't see anything wrong with it but its a bitch to try to walk on. I'm doing PT again but its a long slow process.
Judge away though. because obviously walking up a hill occasionally will fix that knee issue.


marty998

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #809 on: April 18, 2020, 07:16:44 PM »
We live on a hill. Our neighbors have two driveways - one for the house, and below that, one for the shop. They’re about 75 feet apart, and maybe 15 feet difference in elevation. Over the weekend, I watched out neighbor drive her large SUV between the house and the shop and back to avoid walking down the path between the two buildings. They do this all the time. They’re overweight, he has heart problems (in his 40’s), and they bring it all upon themselves.

This reminds me of my neighbor, an older lady who goes for a nice walk around the neighborhood each day. She drives from her apartment to higher level parking lot to then get out and go about her walk. The elevation change might be 30 feet and we're talking a less than 20 second drive.

Now that I  have lived with really crappy knees, I am much more sympathetic to these situations.  People can look fine and be in pain.

Am I being a jerk to suggest the knees might not be so bad with the odd walk up a hill to strengthen the ligaments every now and again?

Probably.  You don't know their situation.  It's like people who look perfectly healthy and use the handicapped parking spot - if they have the permit they need it, no matter how healthy they look.  My Mom looked really healthy and she had a horrible heart, thanks to rheumatic fever as a kid when there were no antibiotics.

When my knees were at their worst I would have been your neighbours.  It took about 6 months of physiotherapy for me to walk without too much pain.  Damaged medial ligaments, torn menisci, plus osteoarthritis in both kneecaps.  Just wear and tear of daily life.  Before my knees got bad I walked the dog for kilometers.  I used to cross-country ski, I gardened, I was active.  If they need physiotherapy I would guess they are not getting it at the moment.  Or they may have COPD or bad hearts.
second that.
One knee has muscle damage, arthritis, no cartilage and minimal knee lining. plus the kneecap is out of place. You can't see anything wrong with it but its a bitch to try to walk on. I'm doing PT again but its a long slow process.
Judge away though. because obviously walking up a hill occasionally will fix that knee issue.

Duly noted. Thankyou for the responses. Sorry for any offence caused.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #810 on: April 18, 2020, 08:40:58 PM »
I can see how someone with physical mobility issues might need to drive to a place where they can walk safely. And good on them for getting out and exercising. But that’s not my neighbors.

And... Oops, they just did it again. 🤦🏻‍♂️

RetiredAt63

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #811 on: April 19, 2020, 07:00:04 AM »
I can see how someone with physical mobility issues might need to drive to a place where they can walk safely. And good on them for getting out and exercising. But that’s not my neighbors.

And... Oops, they just did it again. 🤦🏻‍♂️

You said he has heart problems.  My mom, with her heart problems, could not have done that walk.  If she had tried it, she would have had to sit for 20 minutes to re-oxygenate.  Do you know these people so well that you know their health problems are compatible with walking this?  You know they do not have balance issues?  Because MMM himself and a lot of people on here are ableist*.  Including you, it would seem.

*It is a failing of the young, who can't imagine their bodies ever letting them down.  Those with chronic health issues, and those of us with bodies just having too much wear and tear from living longer, learn better.

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #812 on: April 19, 2020, 07:09:55 AM »
PTF :-)

Dicey

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #813 on: April 19, 2020, 07:27:02 AM »
I can see how someone with physical mobility issues might need to drive to a place where they can walk safely. And good on them for getting out and exercising. But that’s not my neighbors.

And... Oops, they just did it again. 🤦🏻‍♂️

You said he has heart problems.  My mom, with her heart problems, could not have done that walk.  If she had tried it, she would have had to sit for 20 minutes to re-oxygenate.  Do you know these people so well that you know their health problems are compatible with walking this?  You know they do not have balance issues?  Because MMM himself and a lot of people on here are ableist*.  Including you, it would seem.

*It is a failing of the young, who can't imagine their bodies ever letting them down.  Those with chronic health issues, and those of us with bodies just having too much wear and tear from living longer, learn better.
I totally see your point, but sometimes when people end up in these situations it's because of poor choices they've made. Obesity or lack of physical strength do not happen, for the most part, in a vacuum. The majority of cases are at the very least exacerbated by a long strings of sub-optimal choices. A classic example is people who have health problems due to smoking. Wait, you did something you knew was bad for you, simply  because it felt good and you enjoyed it, and now I'm supposed to feel sorry for you, despite the fact that you polluted the air and the lungs of innocents around you? Yeah, that's one I really struggle with.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #814 on: April 19, 2020, 08:19:33 AM »
I can see how someone with physical mobility issues might need to drive to a place where they can walk safely. And good on them for getting out and exercising. But that’s not my neighbors.

And... Oops, they just did it again. 🤦🏻‍♂️

You said he has heart problems.  My mom, with her heart problems, could not have done that walk.  If she had tried it, she would have had to sit for 20 minutes to re-oxygenate.  Do you know these people so well that you know their health problems are compatible with walking this?  You know they do not have balance issues?  Because MMM himself and a lot of people on here are ableist*.  Including you, it would seem.

*It is a failing of the young, who can't imagine their bodies ever letting them down.  Those with chronic health issues, and those of us with bodies just having too much wear and tear from living longer, learn better.
I totally see your point, but sometimes when people end up in these situations it's because of poor choices they've made. Obesity or lack of physical strength do not happen, for the most part, in a vacuum. The majority of cases are at the very least exacerbated by a long strings of sub-optimal choices. A classic example is people who have health problems due to smoking. Wait, you did something you knew was bad for you, simply  because it felt good and you enjoyed it, and now I'm supposed to feel sorry for you, despite the fact that you polluted the air and the lungs of innocents around you? Yeah, that's one I really struggle with.

Sure some is poor choices, and then they are stuck.  And one can hope they can do things to improve.  But sometimes the poor choices are not obvious at the time.  Why do so many of us have crap knees?  What were we doing in our 20s and 30s and 40s that damaged them?  Plus fashion - how many women screwed their joints because they wore high heels?

Plus I am beginning to think a lot of the weight gain we all see around us may be a side effect of modern farming practice.  How many endocrine disruptors are we eating?  All the IBS - what is in our food that is damaging the gut tight cell junctions?  We dont know the synergystic effects of low long-term exposure to all the herbicides, insecticides and fungicides that are used now.

Cassie

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #815 on: April 19, 2020, 07:08:31 PM »
I spent my career working with disabilities and you never know what people are going through. Some conditions are genetic no matter how well you take care of yourself.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #816 on: April 19, 2020, 08:20:37 PM »
We live on a hill. Our neighbors have two driveways - one for the house, and below that, one for the shop. They’re about 75 feet apart, and maybe 15 feet difference in elevation. Over the weekend, I watched out neighbor drive her large SUV between the house and the shop and back to avoid walking down the path between the two buildings. They do this all the time. They’re overweight, he has heart problems (in his 40’s), and they bring it all upon themselves.

This reminds me of my neighbor, an older lady who goes for a nice walk around the neighborhood each day. She drives from her apartment to higher level parking lot to then get out and go about her walk. The elevation change might be 30 feet and we're talking a less than 20 second drive.

Now that I  have lived with really crappy knees, I am much more sympathetic to these situations.  People can look fine and be in pain.

Am I being a jerk to suggest the knees might not be so bad with the odd walk up a hill to strengthen the ligaments every now and again?

Probably.  You don't know their situation.  It's like people who look perfectly healthy and use the handicapped parking spot - if they have the permit they need it, no matter how healthy they look.  My Mom looked really healthy and she had a horrible heart, thanks to rheumatic fever as a kid when there were no antibiotics.

When my knees were at their worst I would have been your neighbours.  It took about 6 months of physiotherapy for me to walk without too much pain.  Damaged medial ligaments, torn menisci, plus osteoarthritis in both kneecaps.  Just wear and tear of daily life.  Before my knees got bad I walked the dog for kilometers.  I used to cross-country ski, I gardened, I was active.  If they need physiotherapy I would guess they are not getting it at the moment.  Or they may have COPD or bad hearts.
second that.
One knee has muscle damage, arthritis, no cartilage and minimal knee lining. plus the kneecap is out of place. You can't see anything wrong with it but its a bitch to try to walk on. I'm doing PT again but its a long slow process.
Judge away though. because obviously walking up a hill occasionally will fix that knee issue.

Duly noted. Thankyou for the responses. Sorry for any offence caused.

No offence taken! By anyone on the thread, I think. After I dislocated my knee and spent quite a while hobbling about with one crutch, I gained quite a lot of patience for other people with mobility issues. It's not easy trying to steer a grocery cart or get in and out of a car with an injury. Call me oblivious, but I didn't think much about other people's issues until I had my own. That's often the way, unfortunately. Anyway, now I'm more patient with other people.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #817 on: April 19, 2020, 10:34:54 PM »
I spent my career working with disabilities and you never know what people are going through. Some conditions are genetic no matter how well you take care of yourself.
In the Western world, two-thirds of people (and rising) are overweight or obese. I don't think two-thirds of the population have genetic problems. If they did, where were these genes fifty years ago?

There's a lady in my neighbourhood who's obese and in a mobility scooter. She has spina bifida. We occasionally see her on a walking frame near her home, and every day (prior to the current drama) she gets onto her scooter and tools up the road to the community centre where she does a workout and socialises with people, she's friendly and pleasant and knows everyone's name. She has a congenital condition and is on a lifelong disability pension, but makes the best of her life.

She is, however, a tiny minority. Most obese people just ate too much and moved too little, and chose to be obese. That's not a moral judgement, that's a statement of responsibility. You live your life as you wish, it's your body. You have the right to repeatedly bang your head against a brick wall if you want, just don't complain you have a headache.

Imma

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #818 on: April 20, 2020, 02:09:40 AM »
I spent my career working with disabilities and you never know what people are going through. Some conditions are genetic no matter how well you take care of yourself.
In the Western world, two-thirds of people (and rising) are overweight or obese. I don't think two-thirds of the population have genetic problems. If they did, where were these genes fifty years ago?



Is that a real question or a rhetorical question? If it truly is a question, I'll answer it for you.

50 years ago the medical science was still pretty much in it's infancy and that means that a lot of people who live with chronic conditions now, would almost certainly have died 50 years ago.

I have a pretty common genetic disease. 50 years ago I would have died in my teens, now my life expectancy is normal. But to stay alive I need to take a lot of medication, including high doses of steroids. I'm not obese, but I am carrying around a bit more fat than I'd like due to that. I walk and bike a lot and generally keep active but I can't do any kind of excercise that gets my heart rate up because I get out of breath quickly because I suffer from chronic anemia (yes I already get treatment for that, no it doesn't work) . There are tons of people like me. Formerly fatal illnesses have become chronic conditions and people who used to be seriously ill are now well enough due to the medical science that they can be part of society instead of being stuck at home. But that does mean that illness is a lot more visible in society then it used to be when we were all still in institutions, hospitals or at best in the spare bedroom in our parents' house.

I'm not an idiot. I hear the judgment in people's voice when I say I can't do this or that. I see them looking at me when I go and buy an icecream twice a year. I also don't feel like I should have to tell people about my health condition to have them treat me like a human being.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2020, 07:41:44 AM by Imma »

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #819 on: April 20, 2020, 02:19:30 AM »
I spent my career working with disabilities and you never know what people are going through. Some conditions are genetic no matter how well you take care of yourself.
In the Western world, two-thirds of people (and rising) are overweight or obese. I don't think two-thirds of the population have genetic problems. If they did, where were these genes fifty years ago?

There's a lady in my neighbourhood who's obese and in a mobility scooter. She has spina bifida. We occasionally see her on a walking frame near her home, and every day (prior to the current drama) she gets onto her scooter and tools up the road to the community centre where she does a workout and socialises with people, she's friendly and pleasant and knows everyone's name. She has a congenital condition and is on a lifelong disability pension, but makes the best of her life.

She is, however, a tiny minority. Most obese people just ate too much and moved too little, and chose to be obese. That's not a moral judgement, that's a statement of responsibility. You live your life as you wish, it's your body. You have the right to repeatedly bang your head against a brick wall if you want, just don't complain you have a headache.

I don't have a genetic issue. I do have a knee that's dislocated multiple times. As a result, I'm one of those people that use a lift to go one flight of stairs. Judge me all you like.

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #820 on: June 24, 2020, 07:01:02 AM »
While walking my dog the other day, I ran into some neighbours who were carrying a small parcel. After my dog gave the box a sniff, they said that they had just picked up some hot dog buns from the (very posh) grocer nearby. They said that since covid they've been doing all of their shopping there and went on to say that they like the food there better even though it's more expensive. I said something to the effect of "ah, lovely" and "I've only been there a few times, but they do have lovely produce".

The thing is, that they're not at all high income, and while the food there is indeed very nice, it's at least 4 times the price of supermarkets. To buy ALL of one's groceries at such a place for months on end would cost an ASTRONOMICAL amount, and an unthinkably large portion of their income.

The following day, I ran into them again, and one of them indicated that she hoped that her waitressing shift would be cancelled on account of the forecasted rain.  I shudder to think of their savings rate.

Dicey

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #821 on: June 24, 2020, 09:48:40 AM »
While walking my dog the other day, I ran into some neighbours who were carrying a small parcel. After my dog gave the box a sniff, they said that they had just picked up some hot dog buns from the (very posh) grocer nearby. They said that since covid they've been doing all of their shopping there and went on to say that they like the food there better even though it's more expensive. I said something to the effect of "ah, lovely" and "I've only been there a few times, but they do have lovely produce".

The thing is, that they're not at all high income, and while the food there is indeed very nice, it's at least 4 times the price of supermarkets. To buy ALL of one's groceries at such a place for months on end would cost an ASTRONOMICAL amount, and an unthinkably large portion of their income.

The following day, I ran into them again, and one of them indicated that she hoped that her waitressing shift would be cancelled on account of the forecasted rain.  I shudder to think of their savings rate.
If they were eating out all the time prior to this, it might be a wash. Sheltering in Place has been harder for some than others. I think I'd give them a sliver of grace on this one. Frankly, why is their savings rate anything worthy of space in your head? I'd never heard of an MMM-style Savings Rate calculation before he came along. I never "looked" like a saver. And yet I've been FIRE for over seven years...

Sun Hat

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #822 on: June 25, 2020, 05:56:45 AM »
If they were eating out all the time prior to this, it might be a wash. Sheltering in Place has been harder for some than others. I think I'd give them a sliver of grace on this one. Frankly, why is their savings rate anything worthy of space in your head? I'd never heard of an MMM-style Savings Rate calculation before he came along. I never "looked" like a saver. And yet I've been FIRE for over seven years...

Wise as always, Dicey. I often feel so fortunate to have learned the merits of saving and frugality at an early age that I want to save others from the perils of a low savings rate. I suppose that this is akin to how evangelical people of faith feel. I need to practice the mantra of "it's none of my business".

ysette9

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #823 on: June 25, 2020, 10:52:46 AM »
If they were eating out all the time prior to this, it might be a wash. Sheltering in Place has been harder for some than others. I think I'd give them a sliver of grace on this one. Frankly, why is their savings rate anything worthy of space in your head? I'd never heard of an MMM-style Savings Rate calculation before he came along. I never "looked" like a saver. And yet I've been FIRE for over seven years...

Wise as always, Dicey. I often feel so fortunate to have learned the merits of saving and frugality at an early age that I want to save others from the perils of a low savings rate. I suppose that this is akin to how evangelical people of faith feel. I need to practice the mantra of "it's none of my business".
I understand the urge and also understand that preaching our gospel likely comes across as annoying as people trying to convert non-believers to their preferred religious flavor. (The différence being, of course, that our gospel is backed by facts and math, but that didn’t make it any less annoying if you aren’t receptive.)

Freedomin5

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #824 on: July 16, 2020, 09:54:48 PM »
Sitting at the local Starbucks using up a gift card. The conversation of the people sitting next to me within the first five minutes of sitting down...

One lady bought the other one a pair of Tory Burch sandals. They’re drinking two coffees — cost about $12. Then the conversation moved to jewelry. And salon nails.

ETA: Now they’re talking about club memberships and gym memberships.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 09:57:05 PM by Freedomin5 »

FiguringItOut

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #825 on: July 17, 2020, 12:09:02 PM »
Sitting at the local Starbucks using up a gift card. The conversation of the people sitting next to me within the first five minutes of sitting down...

One lady bought the other one a pair of Tory Burch sandals. They’re drinking two coffees — cost about $12. Then the conversation moved to jewelry. And salon nails.

ETA: Now they’re talking about club memberships and gym memberships.


I had to google Tory Burch lol
$200 for flip flops
Just wow

AlanStache

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #826 on: July 18, 2020, 03:01:31 PM »
Sitting at the local Starbucks using up a gift card. The conversation of the people sitting next to me within the first five minutes of sitting down...

One lady bought the other one a pair of Tory Burch sandals. They’re drinking two coffees — cost about $12. Then the conversation moved to jewelry. And salon nails.

ETA: Now they’re talking about club memberships and gym memberships.


I had to google Tory Burch lol
$200 for flip flops
Just wow

My google search showed 1000$ flip flops, the google algorithms probably think I dont belong in this forum. 


dragoncar

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #827 on: July 19, 2020, 01:39:32 PM »
Sitting at the local Starbucks using up a gift card. The conversation of the people sitting next to me within the first five minutes of sitting down...

One lady bought the other one a pair of Tory Burch sandals. They’re drinking two coffees — cost about $12. Then the conversation moved to jewelry. And salon nails.

ETA: Now they’re talking about club memberships and gym memberships.


I had to google Tory Burch lol
$200 for flip flops
Just wow

My google search showed 1000$ flip flops, the google algorithms probably think I dont belong in this forum.

A lot of people here are generally frugal but will still splurge on ONE hobby.  Maybe google knows you have a ton of cash and a foot fetish

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #828 on: July 20, 2020, 07:53:20 AM »
Sitting at the local Starbucks using up a gift card. The conversation of the people sitting next to me within the first five minutes of sitting down...

One lady bought the other one a pair of Tory Burch sandals. They’re drinking two coffees — cost about $12. Then the conversation moved to jewelry. And salon nails.

ETA: Now they’re talking about club memberships and gym memberships.


I had to google Tory Burch lol
$200 for flip flops
Just wow

WOW - my discount flip flops cost $6 or $7 several years ago on a beach trip. STILL hanging in there. FF usually last a season at best for me. Now they aren't nearly stylish enough for Beverly Hills but the fashion police haven't come after me yet.

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #829 on: July 20, 2020, 07:55:06 AM »
I guess people's conversations about their stuff amount to a verbal application to a particular tribe? If you have the right taste you'll be invited to the next night out at the favored nightspot?

mm1970

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #830 on: July 20, 2020, 02:59:52 PM »
Sitting at the local Starbucks using up a gift card. The conversation of the people sitting next to me within the first five minutes of sitting down...

One lady bought the other one a pair of Tory Burch sandals. They’re drinking two coffees — cost about $12. Then the conversation moved to jewelry. And salon nails.

ETA: Now they’re talking about club memberships and gym memberships.


I had to google Tory Burch lol
$200 for flip flops
Just wow
That reminds me, a few years ago at a back to school beach thing...there was a newer parent (at the school) who had taken her shoes off at the steps and come over to hang out.  Lots of people do that, leave their flip flops at the steps to walk on the beach. 

Anyway, packing up to leave 2 hours or more later, and they are gone.  Then she starts freaking out because they were $200+ and everyone has to start looking.  Never did find them.  Mine are $6 but I will admit to buying 2-3 pairs of $120 running shoes every year.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #831 on: July 20, 2020, 03:31:27 PM »
I guess people's conversations about their stuff amount to a verbal application to a particular tribe? If you have the right taste you'll be invited to the next night out at the favored nightspot?
That's an interesting thought.  Kinda like how my coworkers and I talk about owning old beaters and how much money it saves us...

ysette9

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #832 on: July 20, 2020, 03:34:12 PM »
Sitting at the local Starbucks using up a gift card. The conversation of the people sitting next to me within the first five minutes of sitting down...

One lady bought the other one a pair of Tory Burch sandals. They’re drinking two coffees — cost about $12. Then the conversation moved to jewelry. And salon nails.

ETA: Now they’re talking about club memberships and gym memberships.


I had to google Tory Burch lol
$200 for flip flops
Just wow
That reminds me, a few years ago at a back to school beach thing...there was a newer parent (at the school) who had taken her shoes off at the steps and come over to hang out.  Lots of people do that, leave their flip flops at the steps to walk on the beach. 

Anyway, packing up to leave 2 hours or more later, and they are gone.  Then she starts freaking out because they were $200+ and everyone has to start looking.  Never did find them.  Mine are $6 but I will admit to buying 2-3 pairs of $120 running shoes every year.
You would think that someone who couldn’t afford to lose a $200 pair of shoes wouldn’t casually doff them at the beach

Freedomin5

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #833 on: July 20, 2020, 03:39:39 PM »
I guess people's conversations about their stuff amount to a verbal application to a particular tribe? If you have the right taste you'll be invited to the next night out at the favored nightspot?

That’s interesting. I did notice that they had exactly the same white nail polish on their toes, but their fingers were unpolished. And they had the same kind of hairstyle. And Botox, but only on their forehead. It’s like there’s an unspoken code of dress, conduct, and personal care regime that puts you in the “in” groups.

Reminds me of the Sneetches with the stars on their bellies (Dr. Seuss).
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 03:45:13 PM by Freedomin5 »

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #834 on: July 20, 2020, 03:42:37 PM »
I guess people's conversations about their stuff amount to a verbal application to a particular tribe? If you have the right taste you'll be invited to the next night out at the favored nightspot?

That’s interesting. I did notice that they had exactly the same white nail polish on their toes, but their fingers were unpolished. And they had the same kind of hairstyle. And Botox, but only on their forehead. It’s like there’s an unspoken code of dress, conduct, and personal care regime that puts you in the “in” groups.

Reminds me of the meeches with the stars on their bellies (Dr. Seuss).
I believe it was the Sneetches.  But yeah, there's a definite parallel between Sneetches and the fashion (whether it be clothes, hair, makeup, home decor, cars, or countertops) industry.  The word "dated" is one I've grown to dislike.

Freedomin5

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #835 on: July 20, 2020, 03:46:16 PM »
I guess people's conversations about their stuff amount to a verbal application to a particular tribe? If you have the right taste you'll be invited to the next night out at the favored nightspot?

That’s interesting. I did notice that they had exactly the same white nail polish on their toes, but their fingers were unpolished. And they had the same kind of hairstyle. And Botox, but only on their forehead. It’s like there’s an unspoken code of dress, conduct, and personal care regime that puts you in the “in” groups.

Reminds me of the Sneetches with the stars on their bellies (Dr. Seuss).
I believe it was the Sneetches.  But yeah, there's a definite parallel between Sneetches and the fashion (whether it be clothes, hair, makeup, home decor, cars, or countertops) industry.  The word "dated" is one I've grown to dislike.

Ah yes. You are right. It’s been a while since I read the book. I made the correction in my post. Thanks!

Dicey

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #836 on: July 20, 2020, 03:49:06 PM »
Sitting at the local Starbucks using up a gift card. The conversation of the people sitting next to me within the first five minutes of sitting down...

One lady bought the other one a pair of Tory Burch sandals. They’re drinking two coffees — cost about $12. Then the conversation moved to jewelry. And salon nails.

ETA: Now they’re talking about club memberships and gym memberships.


I had to google Tory Burch lol
$200 for flip flops
Just wow
That reminds me, a few years ago at a back to school beach thing...there was a newer parent (at the school) who had taken her shoes off at the steps and come over to hang out.  Lots of people do that, leave their flip flops at the steps to walk on the beach. 

Anyway, packing up to leave 2 hours or more later, and they are gone.  Then she starts freaking out because they were $200+ and everyone has to start looking.  Never did find them.  Mine are $6 but I will admit to buying 2-3 pairs of $120 running shoes every year.
Haha, that's why in Hawaii, you never wear your best slippahs to a party!

Kierun

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #837 on: July 20, 2020, 04:20:20 PM »
Haha, that's why in Hawaii, you never wear your best slippahs to a party!
Haha, yeah! Many a times people go home with a different pair of rubbah slippahs than the ones they came with.

Dicey

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #838 on: July 20, 2020, 06:22:48 PM »
Haha, that's why in Hawaii, you never wear your best slippahs to a party!
Haha, yeah! Many a times people go home with a different pair of rubbah slippahs than the ones they came with.
Yeah, "Party Slippahs" means a whole other thing in Hawaii ;-)

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #839 on: July 24, 2020, 12:30:46 AM »


Age comment

A comment on the online section of the newspaper The Age,



Quote

LizW

The treasurer wants us to have more kids to help the economy?

If we have a second child we'll be paying $840 a week in childcare fees, with the subsidy.

That means one of us works for about $4 per hour, probably less if I do the maths properly."

My response, which I do not think will be published:




$840pw for 5 days pw is $168 a day, which is either truly Gucci childcare, or else you're talking about both children. In that case it's $89 a day you're paying.

The childcare subsidy amounts are listed in the link below.

- $0-69k household income govt pays 85% of it, so if you're paying $89pd your childcare centre would be charging $593pd, which seems unlikely.

- $69-$174k with the govt paying 50-85% scaled down by 1% for each $3k. We'll leave this aside.

- $174-$254k household income gets 50% paid. This would be a fee of $168 per child daily. That's on the pricey side but does happen.

- $254k-$344k is likewise scaled 20-50%, 1% for each $3k.

So we can conclude that you have a household income of at least $174k, probably more. this puts your household in the top 10% of household incomes annually. $250k would put you top 5%.

I understand the target demographic of The Age readers skews heavily upper middle-classed, still I don't think households on over $174k are what most people think of when we talk about the need for government assistance.

https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/individuals/services/centrelink/child-care-subsidy/how-much-you-can-get/your-income-can-affect-it

https://profile.id.com.au/australia/household-income

*****

There exist people in households in the top 5-10% of income, getting $200k or more, who think they should get more government assistance - because they're doing it tough.

SwordGuy

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #840 on: July 24, 2020, 05:17:26 AM »
There exist people in households in the top 5-10% of income, getting $200k or more, who think they should get more government assistance - because they're doing it tough.

Some years back a Toronto newspaper did a feature series on local one percenters (by income).

Lordy, what a bunch of sob stories.   For example, one guy could barely make ends meet!    I don't remember the exact numbers, but it was like $1500 in groceries per month plus $1500 eating out plus $1200 to the wine store, etc.    How could anyone get by

It was tear-jerking, it was.

Or at least jerking.

I was really impressed by the reporter.  They didn't display an attitude or editorialize.   They just let these self-absorbed rich twits put the noose of public opinion on themselves and jump off the stool all by themselves.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #841 on: July 24, 2020, 10:44:11 AM »
Quote
There exist people in households in the top 5-10% of income, getting $200k or more, who think they should get more government assistance - because they're doing it tough.

Plus, they really shouldn't apply the full cost of childcare to one parent. That's pretty  unfair.  I realize why they do it.  Shouldn't.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #842 on: July 25, 2020, 12:10:33 AM »
Plus, they really shouldn't apply the full cost of childcare to one parent. That's pretty  unfair.  I realize why they do it.  Shouldn't.
The government, or the journalists?

As for the government: in Australia, the childcare subsidy is paid according to joint income of the parents, whether that be a single parent, a man and a woman, two women, or two men, or grandparents or uncles or aunties or whatever. $200k is $200k, whether it's $200k +$0k, $100k + $100k, $50k + $150k, or whatever. And you're entitled to childcare hours in proportion to the hours of work, volunteering or study of the least active parent. So for example last year with my wife doing 40hr pw and me 20hr pw, we were entitled to 3 days of childcare being subsidised.

As for the journalists, the typical Age article about childcare is,
- stable married couple of different sex
- household on $350+k (thus getting no subsidy), entirely from husband's work
- woman currently doing 0hr paid work, who would like to do some
- but complains it'll cost her money to work

There's no consideration that
- there are parents who are same-sex couples, and sole parents, or grandparents, etc.
- past childbirth and breastfeeding, there is no parenting task a woman does which a man cannot
- so the man could reduce or stop paid work to be a parent and give his wife a chance to resume her career
- households on $350+k aren't really among the most needy in the country, and there are people more worthy of concern and support

catprog

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #843 on: July 25, 2020, 02:41:35 AM »
Quote
There exist people in households in the top 5-10% of income, getting $200k or more, who think they should get more government assistance - because they're doing it tough.

Plus, they really shouldn't apply the full cost of childcare to one parent. That's pretty  unfair.  I realize why they do it.  Shouldn't.

If the alternative is the single parent staying home then it is fair to see how much more they get for working then staying home looking after the kids.

The real problem with the story. Childcare is so expensive in the area that working only earns $4/hour . Lower income people get a subsidy to increase the rate but it is still only $4/hour.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #844 on: July 25, 2020, 03:28:32 AM »
The real problem with the story. Childcare is so expensive in the area that working only earns $4/hour . Lower income people get a subsidy to increase the rate but it is still only $4/hour.
Not in Australia.

A single parent on permanent full-time (38h) minimum wage in Australia would be paid $753.80pw, thus earning $150.76 a day. As I noted above, a household on under $69,390 will have 85% of their childcare costs paid for a number of days in proportion to their work, volunteer or study hours; one on 38hr pw could get up to 60hr childcare subsidised.

As with everything, there is no upper limit on the cost of things, however childcare in my area averages $120.50* a day, for 0700-1800, where they supply nappies and food as needed, saving you the cost of those. Paying 15% of this would be a cost of $18.07 a day, or $90.38pw.

Net pay exclusive of tax would then be $753.80 - $90.38 = $663.42, taking your effective hourly wage from $19.84 to $17.46ph.

Tax as always is complicated. However, there exists a low and middle income tax offset the person could claim, a family tax benefit, and someone on minimum wage would also likely have things like uniform deductions, etc. Almost certainly their tax bill would be under $100pw, and in some circumstances they may pay almost no income tax at all.

Now, if you are a very high income household, or if you have multiple children, then the situation is different.

The government childcare subsidy is of great financial benefit to low and middle income earning households, it is of little financial benefit to high income households, and no benefit to very high income households. Higher income households are not punished, but they receive no benefits - I'm comfortable with that. The government will be helping the single parent on minimum wage, the working class couple, the professional woman who is a recent graduate and returning to work; it won't be helping the household where one of them is a neurosurgeon on $450k.

That seems alright to me. The government also doesn't pay the $30k annually that household spends to send their child to a private school, or the $5k for lacrosse lessons.


*This is about as cheap as childcare can be. My state, for example, requires a staff:child ratio of not less than 1:4 up to 36 months, and 1:11 up to school-aged. The places are open 10-12 hours, and require staff there for 12hr a day at least. If you had just 4 children under 36 months, then you must pay the person at least minimum wage of $19.84ph for 12 hours, which is $238.08 in all, or $59.52 daily for each of 4 children. Less or more than 4 children and it's the same one staff person but more cost per child, so,


1 staff & 1 child = $238.08 per child daily
1 staff & 2 children = $119.04
1 staff and 3 children = $79.36
1 staff and 4 children = $59.20
2 staff and 5 children = $95.23
2 staff and 6 children = $79.36
2 staff and 7 children = $68.02
2 staff and 8 children = $59.20


Obviously you'll try to plan things to get the ratio right. But parents aren't tied to a particular pickup time, and you have to have the staff there just in case, so you'll generally have more staff than you need.


If you have more than a few staff, then you need a supervisor, who'll be paid more. You need to either buy the food in, or have a cook/chef to prepare it - and with so many children having allergies and infants having sensitive stomachs etc, you need them to be pretty switched-on and conscientious and professional. You also need a cleaner, parents may happily have their children shit and snot everywhere at home but expect a childcare centre to be spotless. If you have more than one centre then you'll need at least a part-time accountant to do payroll.


And of course you also have to pay for the building and utilities, and given that you're dealing with children, what do you think their liability insurance must be like?


$120 a day is thus probably about the lowest they can charge. Thus the government subsidies.

 
« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 03:48:23 AM by Kyle Schuant »

catprog

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #845 on: July 25, 2020, 03:21:27 PM »
The real problem with the story. Childcare is so expensive in the area that working only earns $4/hour . Lower income people get a subsidy to increase the rate but it is still only $4/hour.
Not in Australia.

A single parent on permanent full-time (38h) minimum wage in Australia would be paid $753.80pw, thus earning $150.76 a day.

As with everything, there is no upper limit on the cost of things, however childcare in my area averages $120.50* a day, for 0700-1800, where they supply nappies and food as needed, saving you the cost of those. Paying 15% of this would be a cost of $18.07 a day, or $90.38pw.


$120 a day is thus probably about the lowest they can charge. Thus the government subsidies.

My point was not who pays for it(I.e for a low income family the government pays most of it) or if it could be cheaper. My point was for a minimum wage person the amount they earn is about the cost of childcare.

I mean your own posts proves the point. They only earn $150.76 /day. Tax takes ~$17. $120 goes to the center.
That leaves only $13 left.

Yes their are subsides but as the discussion showed we are talking about a high income family who won't get a subsidy complaining that most of their wage goes straight into childcare.


Plus, they really shouldn't apply the full cost of childcare to one parent. That's pretty  unfair.  I realize why they do it.  Shouldn't.


There's no consideration that
- so the man could reduce or stop paid work to be a parent and give his wife a chance to resume her career

So instead of it costing $120/day it will actual cost $500/day and this is supposed to be a better deal?

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #846 on: July 25, 2020, 10:52:18 PM »
"Yes there are subsidies" - and for the low and middle income earner, these pay almost all of the cost. Despite your quoting the correct figures I gave you, you assert incorrect figures - that a sole parent on minimum wage would be paying $120 a day for childcare. That's a lie, and a complete misrepresentation of what's happening here in Australia.

For higher income earners it will cost money - in lost income, and other things - to have children. But I do not think we have a human right to have exactly the lifestyle we want at zero financial cost.

Government exists to supply services which would be inconvenient for us to organise ourselves, like roads and rail and so on. It also exists to assist the needy. Both should be done in accordance with the resources available to that country and its government. Our ideological viewpoint will influence how much assistance should be given, for example should schools be free and universities too, or just schools, etc. Our self-interest will likely be a factor, too - "people like me deserve help, but not those others."

But I think most are agreed that household on $35k may need assistance, but a household on $350k can probably sort itself out. Unless they live profligately wasteful lives, one of them can take a couple of years off to take care of children, or both can go part-time, or they can just pony up the cash for childcare or a nanny.

You do not have a human right to live your chosen lifestyle at zero financial cost.

LinneaH

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #847 on: August 04, 2020, 08:27:10 AM »
We have really good neighbours all around and talk to them quite a lot "over the fence". However, we don't share _really_ personal info. More of "how are your veggies going - do you want to swap seeds? ",  "your kid is a couple of years older, what is your opinion on local kids soccer team?" so sort of personal, but not sensitive.

I did not have anything to contribute to this thread for a long time, as people around here do their work in the garden or on the house, and we even help each other if we can, before calling in carpenters, plumbers etc. No McMansions.

However...
Closest neighbour, was single, have now met a guy (they are both 40-45 yrs), who seems very nice, friendly etc. No complaints from us.
But he does talk... So yesterday he let us know that:
* he won appr $30 000 gambling a couple of days ago
* which was good as he is heavily in debt and is forced to have money taken out of his wages to repay (garnishment) so now he can repay some of that

But a couple of weeks ago, he told us of this cruiser trip they are taking - as they deserve it!

I just feel
a) this seems so very unmustachian
b) not sure I want to know this at all, and I am sure more info will follow on topics I don't want to discuss w/neighbours. But then maybe I have more to contribute here :-)

bluebelle

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Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #848 on: August 04, 2020, 08:34:05 AM »
We have really good neighbours all around and talk to them quite a lot "over the fence". However, we don't share _really_ personal info. More of "how are your veggies going - do you want to swap seeds? ",  "your kid is a couple of years older, what is your opinion on local kids soccer team?" so sort of personal, but not sensitive.

I did not have anything to contribute to this thread for a long time, as people around here do their work in the garden or on the house, and we even help each other if we can, before calling in carpenters, plumbers etc. No McMansions.

However...
Closest neighbour, was single, have now met a guy (they are both 40-45 yrs), who seems very nice, friendly etc. No complaints from us.
But he does talk... So yesterday he let us know that:
* he won appr $30 000 gambling a couple of days ago
* which was good as he is heavily in debt and is forced to have money taken out of his wages to repay (garnishment) so now he can repay some of that

But a couple of weeks ago, he told us of this cruiser trip they are taking - as they deserve it!

I just feel
a) this seems so very unmustachian
b) not sure I want to know this at all, and I am sure more info will follow on topics I don't want to discuss w/neighbours. But then maybe I have more to contribute here :-)
for your neighbor's sake, I hope she's better at converting him to her more conservative lifestyle rather than he converts her.....or worse, gets her to pay off his debt, racks up more and moves on.

LinneaH

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  • Location: Sweden
Re: Overheard over the fence (Antimustachian neighbours)
« Reply #849 on: August 04, 2020, 08:39:51 AM »
for your neighbor's sake, I hope she's better at converting him to her more conservative lifestyle rather than he converts her.....or worse, gets her to pay off his debt, racks up more and moves on.

To be honest, I have been thinking about this. They both seem very much in love, and she is not really rich or anything,so he is not taking her for money. But still, I am slightly worried. Having a hard time to see what I can do though, especially as I am moving away in about two months.

Ooh how I will miss this lovely neighbourhood and neighbours...