Overheard on Facebook

[nobodyspecial]

I might be wandering into paranoid conspiracy nut territory here but ....

I wonder why it took a non-car maker to start taking electric cars seriously?
The Tesla is a lotus chassis with some standard Panasonic 18650 laptop cells and a couple of brushless DC motors - not exactly beyond the engineering competence of Volkswagon or Toyota.

Electric cars potentially last a long time, there are few servicing costs (brakes last forever, no oil changes, no timing belt ... ) so no profit for dealer service centers and no incentive to trade your 3year old car to a new model once the loan runs out.

[grantmeaname]

Check out the documentary about the GM EV-1, Who Killed the Electric Car?. The filmmaker comes to the same conclusions you do.

[dragoncar]

I might be wandering into paranoid conspiracy nut territory here but ....

I wonder why it took a non-car maker to start taking electric cars seriously?
The Tesla is a lotus chassis with some standard Panasonic 18650 laptop cells and a couple of brushless DC motors - not exactly beyond the engineering competence of Volkswagon or Toyota.

Electric cars potentially last a long time, there are few servicing costs (brakes last forever, no oil changes, no timing belt ... ) so no profit for dealer service centers and no incentive to trade your 3year old car to a new model once the loan runs out.

I don't think it's a conspiracy, just entrenchment.  I don't think the engineering was trivial, though.

[HairyUpperLip]

I might be wandering into paranoid conspiracy nut territory here but ....

I wonder why it took a non-car maker to start taking electric cars seriously?
The Tesla is a lotus chassis with some standard Panasonic 18650 laptop cells and a couple of brushless DC motors - not exactly beyond the engineering competence of Volkswagon or Toyota.

Electric cars potentially last a long time, there are few servicing costs (brakes last forever, no oil changes, no timing belt ... ) so no profit for dealer service centers and no incentive to trade your 3year old car to a new model once the loan runs out.

I think you are right.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that oil companies secretly join forces to lobby and ensure hipster electric stuff doesn't take off. Got to burn fossil fuels 24-7-365...

[mm1970]

Yesterday on FB, a hs friend picture of herself and a buddy with the caption "Cartier Pasha" buddies.

I had to google that.

It's a watch...that's several thousand dollars?

I have to admit - she travels to exotic places, dresses very high fashion, is 45 with the body of a 20 year old (she's single, no kids, in pharmaceuticals).  So, she can probably afford it.

But several thousand for a watch?

[dsmexpat]

I don't need a watch at all but I am seriously considering one of these as a luxury item.
http://www.amazon.com/AMPM24-Steampunk-Skeleton-Self-Winding-Mechanical/dp/B00HFQ9K6W/ref=pd_sim_241_5?ie=UTF8&refRID=1MZES2S5KZNJVTWAD66A

[Dollar Slice]

I don't need a watch at all but I am seriously considering one of these as a luxury item.
http://www.amazon.com/AMPM24-Steampunk-Skeleton-Self-Winding-Mechanical/dp/B00HFQ9K6W/ref=pd_sim_241_5?ie=UTF8&refRID=1MZES2S5KZNJVTWAD66A

I saw "Skeleton" and "Steampunk" and "Self-Winding" in the URL and just assumed it involved a little automated skeletal hand that would pop out and wind the watch for you.

Oh well.

[AlanStache]

Running off renewable power is green washing.

Unsupported assertion, and odd given that the answers to your questions could refute it. All else being equal, renewable power reduces pollution compared to the alternatives. If you think they're doing it for appearances, feel free to present evidence for that.

Is the plant built of renewable steel?

Ha ha ha. Yes, they grow the steel on steel trees with organic fertilizers.

Do the batteries use renewable nickel?

They don't use nickel at all. They use recyclable lithium. There are some fairly low-impact ways of getting it (like evaporated seawater). The more of it that goes into service, the less it will have to be produced. Even optimistic scenarios for EV penetration in the transport sector show lithium production declining within years as recycling replaces production. The packs the automakers building now will generally have lifecycles measured in decades, after which >90% of the material will go back for remanufacturing.

Do the trucks delivering the parts run off renewable diesel?

Probably not yet. But the trend is toward lower-impact designs throughout the sector, especially with OEMs that are leading that transition. BMW just announced yesterday that it had built a 40-ton electric truck to shuttle parts from one plant to another.

I bet the 50% number stands up well in an in depth analysis.

Back to my initial point, which I thought was clear enough: without actually doing the analysis, we'd both be unwise to support specific figures for the industry or this specific plant. The historical average has likely changed, and will to continue to change, for known reasons.

I think the question is whether he would have built a new factory anyway or whether he just built a new one to have it run on solar. If he would have built it anyway but has converted the plans to make it greener, then great! If he's demolished a perfectly good one to build this one, then it is greenwashing at it's most reprehensible.

For their first facility, they took a derelict plant from a former joint venture between two other automakers and rebuilt it (and with much more efficient, low-impact processes than most). The next phase in growth required a unique approach that wouldn't work in any existing facilities - the scale alone precludes it.

Just like buying a car: if you were going to buy a new one anyway, by all means choose an Eco model, but don't scrap your old car just to upgrade.

Couldn't agree more.

I'm not trying to talk everyone here into buying a Tesla, nor am I about to do so myself, but a lot of the snark toward them seems to be based on fundamental misconceptions of the company's charter. Feel free to disagree with their strategy or methods, but it's an established fact that profiting from high-end luxury EVs is a means to an end, with the end being mass production of low-impact, affordable cars to replace today's gas engines. I do strongly support EV adoption, and they've done a lot to make other car manufacturers take the idea seriously, which is good for all of us in the long run.

[Pooperman]

Running off renewable power is green washing.

Unsupported assertion, and odd given that the answers to your questions could refute it. All else being equal, renewable power reduces pollution compared to the alternatives. If you think they're doing it for appearances, feel free to present evidence for that.

Is the plant built of renewable steel?

Ha ha ha. Yes, they grow the steel on steel trees with organic fertilizers.

Do the batteries use renewable nickel?

They don't use nickel at all. They use recyclable lithium. There are some fairly low-impact ways of getting it (like evaporated seawater). The more of it that goes into service, the less it will have to be produced. Even optimistic scenarios for EV penetration in the transport sector show lithium production declining within years as recycling replaces production. The packs the automakers building now will generally have lifecycles measured in decades, after which >90% of the material will go back for remanufacturing.

Do the trucks delivering the parts run off renewable diesel?

Probably not yet. But the trend is toward lower-impact designs throughout the sector, especially with OEMs that are leading that transition. BMW just announced yesterday that it had built a 40-ton electric truck to shuttle parts from one plant to another.

I bet the 50% number stands up well in an in depth analysis.

Back to my initial point, which I thought was clear enough: without actually doing the analysis, we'd both be unwise to support specific figures for the industry or this specific plant. The historical average has likely changed, and will to continue to change, for known reasons.

I think the question is whether he would have built a new factory anyway or whether he just built a new one to have it run on solar. If he would have built it anyway but has converted the plans to make it greener, then great! If he's demolished a perfectly good one to build this one, then it is greenwashing at it's most reprehensible.

For their first facility, they took a derelict plant from a former joint venture between two other automakers and rebuilt it (and with much more efficient, low-impact processes than most). The next phase in growth required a unique approach that wouldn't work in any existing facilities - the scale alone precludes it.

Just like buying a car: if you were going to buy a new one anyway, by all means choose an Eco model, but don't scrap your old car just to upgrade.

Couldn't agree more.

I'm not trying to talk everyone here into buying a Tesla, nor am I about to do so myself, but a lot of the snark toward them seems to be based on fundamental misconceptions of the company's charter. Feel free to disagree with their strategy or methods, but it's an established fact that profiting from high-end luxury EVs is a means to an end, with the end being mass production of low-impact, affordable cars to replace today's gas engines. I do strongly support EV adoption, and they've done a lot to make other car manufacturers take the idea seriously, which is good for all of us in the long run.

[Taran Wanderer]

I have nothing against Tesla. I've ridden in one. It was awesome. And we are putting in a Tesla charging station at work. But the post I was responding to stated that 50% of a car's lifecycle energy consumption comes from building it. I was arguing in support of this. The steel, copper, nickel (Prius) / lithium (Tesla), aluminum, foam, control components, etc. have to be extracted, refined, fabricated, transported, and assembled. The plant's steel, concrete, copper, glass, etc. have to go through the same process.  All this takes energy.

And that is why it is reasonable to believe that 50% of a car's lifecycle energy consumption comes from building it.

[nobodyspecial]

And that is why it is reasonable to believe that 50% of a car's lifecycle energy consumption comes from building it. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

According to Argonne national labs study
A mid range steel car is about 65GJ to manufacture and 6GJ to recylce and uses 960GJ for a 120,000 mi life.
A car with a lot of aluminium uses 10% more energy to make, less to recycle and 12% less fuel during it's life (also Aluminium is only practical to make where the electricity is hydro)

65GJ is about the energy in 500gallons of gasoline - at 100% efficiency.


Figures from toyota for a gasoline vehicle:
Driving 72 percent
Fuel production 8 percent
Vehicle production 6 percent
Material production 12 percent

[Taran Wanderer]

Would you happen to have a link for that?  I looked on the anl.gov website and could not find it.

[forummm]

I think the question is whether he would have built a new factory anyway or whether he just built a new one to have it run on solar. If he would have built it anyway but has converted the plans to make it greener, then great! If he's demolished a perfectly good one to build this one, then it is greenwashing at it's most reprehensible.

Just like buying a car: if you were going to buy a new one anyway, by all means choose an Eco model, but don't scrap your old car just to upgrade.

It's new construction.

Yeah, the Gigafactory will produce more Li-ion batteries than the entire world combined does today. It's necessary to build the 500,000 cars and Tesla PowerWalls they want to sell, and will dramatically reduce the cost of batteries. It's a big deal.

[forummm]

(also Aluminium is only practical to make where the electricity is hydro)

Or geothermal. They make about a million tons per year of aluminum ingots in Iceland where the geothermal energy is very plentiful. It's a great idea. Otherwise the energy would just be wasted.

[nobodyspecial]

Would you happen to have a link for that?  I looked on the anl.gov website and could not find it.

Was from an old posting on physics forums, the anl sirte seems to have link rot for everything.
The only valid link I could find was http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/106.pdf

Their main site is http://www.transportation.anl.gov/ The vehivle lifecycle data is now behind a login page.
You cna validate the rough numbers though from just the energy cost of making steel and the number of man-hours it takes to build a car

[Papa Mustache]

DW is still mildly pissed at her brother & sister-in-law for their 'dream' destination wedding that she had to shell out a lot of money she didn't have to be a part of.

We were invited (extended family) to a wedding where after all the out of state resort reservations were made, money spent - and then the bride and groom called it all off at the last second. People were locked into their travel plans in most cases.

The next time the groom married (diff girl), the wedding was still hundreds of miles away. We went - again - but didn't stay very long. Nuptials, dinner, and things got rowdy and bawdy (alcohol) - and the center of the spectacle were people we didn't even really know. Time to pack up the kids and head back to the hotel. We were wallflowers at that point anyhow. Were not motivated to stay and watch them twerking with each other. SMH. Somebody's 50-something Mom was grinding with her step-son... No thanks... Bye!

[Dollar Slice]

We were invited (extended family) to a wedding where after all the out of state resort reservations were made, money spent - and then the bride and groom called it all off at the last second. People were locked into their travel plans in most cases.

The next time the groom married (diff girl), the wedding was still hundreds of miles away.

If you said "bride" instead of "groom" I would swear I was related to this person. First wedding: ~1400 miles away, called it off at the last minute. We went for a visit anyway (we have a lot of family in that area so it wasn't so bad). Sort of hilariously, some distant relative showed up for the wedding while we were there because they forgot to tell her it was canceled. Ouch.

However many years later, she got married for real, this time a destination resort wedding over 2000 miles away. I didn't go to the second one. Now that I am older I've decided that it's ridiculous to travel that far for a wedding (nevermind the expense) unless you really and truly deeply care that the person in question is getting married.

[Papa Mustache]

I saw a GoFundMe for a chick trying to raise money to get out of her DUI charges.  Super classy.

There was recently a road-rage-induced hit-and-run against a cyclist here in Atlanta. (Last I heard, the cyclist had emerged from his coma and is now re-learning motor skills.) Once they found the car involved, which was hidden under a tarp in a parking deck, it was determined that it belonged to the girlfriend of the perpetrator. She's been charged with "tampering with evidence" because she helped hide the car.

That asshole had the audacity to try to get her legal expenses crowdfunded!

"As you may or may not know, I've been accused of charges in a high profile case that has sucked up a vast amount of my funds (and my family) for finishing college and personal bills. Because of a crime someone else has done, I may be facing 5 years plus in jail for allegedly "tampering with evidence" With God on my side and a great lawyer, I have to come up with $3,000 after paying a $2,500 bail that I'm still paying on. I'm never the one to put my "business" in the street, but The Bible says, "When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom (Proverbs 11:2)." With that said, I need help! End of story, no sugar coating to it. I'm humble enough to know that when I need help, I need to ask for it so I just pray that out of the kindness of everyone's heart you can please give whatever you can to help me beat this case and win this victory that I KNOW God has already taken care of!"

(Luckily, once a few people complained, the page got taken down.)

I just LOVE the quotation of biblical scripture used in the crowd funding appeal. Never mind that they have apparently missed the main tenants of Christianity and the Ten Commandants with their behavior (nearly killing a person and then trying to avoid responsibility).

[MgoSam]

I saw a GoFundMe for a chick trying to raise money to get out of her DUI charges.  Super classy.

There was recently a road-rage-induced hit-and-run against a cyclist here in Atlanta. (Last I heard, the cyclist had emerged from his coma and is now re-learning motor skills.) Once they found the car involved, which was hidden under a tarp in a parking deck, it was determined that it belonged to the girlfriend of the perpetrator. She's been charged with "tampering with evidence" because she helped hide the car.

That asshole had the audacity to try to get her legal expenses crowdfunded!

"As you may or may not know, I've been accused of charges in a high profile case that has sucked up a vast amount of my funds (and my family) for finishing college and personal bills. Because of a crime someone else has done, I may be facing 5 years plus in jail for allegedly "tampering with evidence" With God on my side and a great lawyer, I have to come up with $3,000 after paying a $2,500 bail that I'm still paying on. I'm never the one to put my "business" in the street, but The Bible says, "When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom (Proverbs 11:2)." With that said, I need help! End of story, no sugar coating to it. I'm humble enough to know that when I need help, I need to ask for it so I just pray that out of the kindness of everyone's heart you can please give whatever you can to help me beat this case and win this victory that I KNOW God has already taken care of!"

(Luckily, once a few people complained, the page got taken down.)

I just LOVE the quotation of biblical scripture used in the crowd funding appeal. Never mind that they have apparently missed the main tenants of Christianity and the Ten Commandants with their behavior (nearly killing a person and then trying to avoid responsibility).

I'm confused, so the women owns the car that was used in a hit-and-run on a cyclist and then she helped him hide it in a parking ramp with a tarp (I'm guessing until the heat died down). Has the man been charged for assault with a deadly weapon, hit-and-run, and many more offenses?

That said, I am glad that gf is being charged. Do you know if she is claiming that she is innocent of all this? Is she saying that her bf lied to her, or that she has a perfectly innocent reason that she hide her car in a ramp with a tarp over it?

[zephyr911]

TENETS. Deeply held principles, that is.
Tenants are the people who will pay for my early retirement.

Still necroposting, I see. I'm not mad... I'm just *dramatic sigh* disappointed.

[Papa Mustache]

I'm totally against "push presents" (for the concept and the horribly tacky name), but I'm on board with the pre-baby vacation idea. Not somewhere too far  away, perhaps, but it's a nice idea. My husband and I went to a B&B about two hours from home before baby 1 was born. So nice and relaxing. And swimming in a cool mountain lake while pregnant? Absolutely amazing.

We took a weekend away right before baby #1. Took my DW hiking... That is we walked a couple of miles to and from a waterfall. Was fun for her to answer folks who asked when she was due. She'd say something like "next week". And they'd stare at her and say "and you are HIKING?".

We think movement in moderation does a body good. Your body will tell you what its limits are.

FWIW she did natural delivery both pregnancies, no drugs. Not any drama either. She just focused on the task and delivered our boys. I was wide eyed the first time. I knew the basic biology and anatomy but I certainly never attended a birth. ;)

We received practical gifts from family, friends and coworkers but nothing luxury related (thank you!). The ladies at work gave us a baby shower which was certainly welcome. Good people. The best gifts were hand-me-downs from DW's sisters. Kids clothes enough to clothe an army. We passed them along to a couple of friends who did the same. BIG money saver for all of us.

[QueenAlice]

TENETS. Deeply held principles, that is.
Tenants are the people who will pay for my early retirement.

Still necroposting, I see. I'm not mad... I'm just *dramatic sigh* disappointed.

He won't see your disappointment for at least 10+ more pages

[mustachepungoeshere]

A high school classmate of mine just posted a story the hometown newspaper wrote on his parents' purchase of a Tesla.  Granted, I understand the potential for the technology and admit their "green" potential, but the quote went something like:

"More people should consider the purchase of a Tesla.  They really ARE so good for the environment!"

Slow news day?

[Rural]

A high school classmate of mine just posted a story the hometown newspaper wrote on his parents' purchase of a Tesla.  Granted, I understand the potential for the technology and admit their "green" potential, but the quote went something like:

"More people should consider the purchase of a Tesla.  They really ARE so good for the environment!"

Slow news day?

Probably a small town. My hometown would totally do this. My mother started stocking a new product line in her store and it was front page news.

Oh, yeah. Various hobbies and collections, feature stores on great cooks (nominated by their families)... Full page spread for that sort of thing, once a week (in a weekly).

[sheepstache]

I saw a GoFundMe for a chick trying to raise money to get out of her DUI charges.  Super classy.

There was recently a road-rage-induced hit-and-run against a cyclist here in Atlanta. (Last I heard, the cyclist had emerged from his coma and is now re-learning motor skills.) Once they found the car involved, which was hidden under a tarp in a parking deck, it was determined that it belonged to the girlfriend of the perpetrator. She's been charged with "tampering with evidence" because she helped hide the car.

That asshole had the audacity to try to get her legal expenses crowdfunded!

"As you may or may not know, I've been accused of charges in a high profile case that has sucked up a vast amount of my funds (and my family) for finishing college and personal bills. Because of a crime someone else has done, I may be facing 5 years plus in jail for allegedly "tampering with evidence" With God on my side and a great lawyer, I have to come up with $3,000 after paying a $2,500 bail that I'm still paying on. I'm never the one to put my "business" in the street, but The Bible says, "When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom (Proverbs 11:2)." With that said, I need help! End of story, no sugar coating to it. I'm humble enough to know that when I need help, I need to ask for it so I just pray that out of the kindness of everyone's heart you can please give whatever you can to help me beat this case and win this victory that I KNOW God has already taken care of!"

(Luckily, once a few people complained, the page got taken down.)

I just LOVE the quotation of biblical scripture used in the crowd funding appeal. Never mind that they have apparently missed the main tenants of Christianity and the Ten Commandants with their behavior (nearly killing a person and then trying to avoid responsibility).

I'm confused, so the women owns the car that was used in a hit-and-run on a cyclist and then she helped him hide it in a parking ramp with a tarp (I'm guessing until the heat died down). Has the man been charged for assault with a deadly weapon, hit-and-run, and many more offenses?

That said, I am glad that gf is being charged. Do you know if she is claiming that she is innocent of all this? Is she saying that her bf lied to her, or that she has a perfectly innocent reason that she hide her car in a ramp with a tarp over it?

So...we're not doing that 'innocent until proven guilty' thing anymore? I thought it was kind of the basis of our justice system.

I guess this will help us a lot with the cost of legal aid. Why spend money defending criminals?

[cerebus]

Probably a small town. My hometown would totally do this. My mother started stocking a new product line in her store and it was front page news.

Oh, yeah. Various hobbies and collections, feature stores on great cooks (nominated by their families)... Full page spread for that sort of thing, once a week (in a weekly).

Oh I would love that. Our town's local newspaper front pages are normally stories like "Pensioners brutally attacked in their own homes" or "10 arrested in car hijacking gang". What I'd give for full page spreads about pie-cooking aunts.

[zephyr911]

So...we're not doing that 'innocent until proven guilty' thing anymore? I thought it was kind of the basis of our justice system.

I guess this will help us a lot with the cost of legal aid. Why spend money defending criminals?

I read up a bit (the story wasn't hard to find). According to the police, they had her on video doing it. Since nobody here is on the jury, and we're just making casual statements on an open forum, we have the luxury of being able to assume (and say) whatever we want about that. Of course, I would hope the actual jury withheld judgment until seeing said video, and considered it in light of the larger body of evidence.

[MgoSam]

So...we're not doing that 'innocent until proven guilty' thing anymore? I thought it was kind of the basis of our justice system.

I guess this will help us a lot with the cost of legal aid. Why spend money defending criminals?

I read up a bit (the story wasn't hard to find). According to the police, they had her on video doing it. Since nobody here is on the jury, and we're just making casual statements on an open forum, we have the luxury of being able to assume (and say) whatever we want about that. Of course, I would hope the actual jury withheld judgment until seeing said video, and considered it in light of the larger body of evidence.

Can you post a link to the story, or as a PM? My Googling failed.

[Rural]

Probably a small town. My hometown would totally do this. My mother started stocking a new product line in her store and it was front page news.

Oh, yeah. Various hobbies and collections, feature stores on great cooks (nominated by their families)... Full page spread for that sort of thing, once a week (in a weekly).

Oh I would love that. Our town's local newspaper front pages are normally stories like "Pensioners brutally attacked in their own homes" or "10 arrested in car hijacking gang". What I'd give for full page spreads about pie-cooking aunts.

It's actually pretty cool. I didn't know it was part of why I wanted to move out of the city at the time, but I do now.

[Hedge_87]

Probably a small town. My hometown would totally do this. My mother started stocking a new product line in her store and it was front page news.

Oh, yeah. Various hobbies and collections, feature stores on great cooks (nominated by their families)... Full page spread for that sort of thing, once a week (in a weekly).

Oh I would love that. Our town's local newspaper front pages are normally stories like "Pensioners brutally attacked in their own homes" or "10 arrested in car hijacking gang". What I'd give for full page spreads about pie-cooking aunts.

It's actually pretty cool. I didn't know it was part of why I wanted to move out of the city at the time, but I do now.

Lol my wife is on the front page of the town  paper all the time. I always tease her about being a town A-lister. It is a lot of fun. Our editor is a pretty cool (sometimes a little crazy) old man.

[seanc0x0]

Probably a small town. My hometown would totally do this. My mother started stocking a new product line in her store and it was front page news.

Oh, yeah. Various hobbies and collections, feature stores on great cooks (nominated by their families)... Full page spread for that sort of thing, once a week (in a weekly).

Oh I would love that. Our town's local newspaper front pages are normally stories like "Pensioners brutally attacked in their own homes" or "10 arrested in car hijacking gang". What I'd give for full page spreads about pie-cooking aunts.

Damn, sorry to hear that!  I live in Canada's most violent city (Saskatoon, SK) and we get a hell of a lot of the former in our newspaper.

[Papa Mustache]

Apparently men aren't allowed to like station wagons.

Learned this at work today :)

My mother has a Passat wagon.  They are not made any longer.  I told her I have dibs.  I'm a man.

You probably know this but the rest of the world outside the USA gets wagon (estate cars) versions of just about every sedan we can buy here in the USA.

Chevy Cruze, Honda Accord, Ford Fusion (Mondeo), Civic, etc... And the manual transmission can be had in all of these places too...

Our #1 car choice next time is a VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI (diesel) with a six speed manual transmission. The turbo deisel CR-V with a 6MT would also be high on my list but we aren't allowed to buy them here in the USA- Land of the Free.

Land of the free my.... ;) Can't have the CR-V imported but the good 'ole boys can "roll coal" in their domestic branded pickups. Check out You Tube if you don't know what that means. ;)

[cerebus]

Apparently men aren't allowed to like station wagons.

Learned this at work today :)

My mother has a Passat wagon.  They are not made any longer.  I told her I have dibs.  I'm a man.

You probably know this but the rest of the world outside the USA gets wagon (estate cars) versions of just about every sedan we can buy here in the USA.

Chevy Cruze, Honda Accord, Ford Fusion (Mondeo), Civic, etc... And the manual transmission can be had in all of these places too...

Our #1 car choice next time is a VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI (diesel) with a six speed manual transmission. The turbo deisel CR-V with a 6MT would also be high on my list but we aren't allowed to buy them here in the USA- Land of the Free.

Land of the free my.... ;) Can't have the CR-V imported but the good 'ole boys can "roll coal" in their domestic branded pickups. Check out You Tube if you don't know what that means. ;)

I'm partial to the Audi A4 Avant, and don't even get me started on the Volvo V70. SA isn't much of a country for wagons/estates either, they prefer their bakkies (pickups) or SUVs. We got the Camry because the boot width puts it into wagon territory but the lack of vertical storage is often a pain.

[QueenAlice]

...

Our #1 car choice next time is a VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI (diesel) with a six speed manual transmission. The turbo deisel CR-V with a 6MT would also be high on my list but we aren't allowed to buy them here in the USA- Land of the Free.

...

Great choice! We have a Jetta Sportwagon TDI and a regular Jetta TDI.  Both average between 45 and 50 miles per gallon (depending on who is driving ;) ) Going to have these babies for a loooooong time!

[ender]

Apparently men aren't allowed to like station wagons.

Learned this at work today :)

My mother has a Passat wagon.  They are not made any longer.  I told her I have dibs.  I'm a man.

You probably know this but the rest of the world outside the USA gets wagon (estate cars) versions of just about every sedan we can buy here in the USA.

Don't even get me started on this... it drives me nuts every time I think about it!

[Rural]

Apparently men aren't allowed to like station wagons.

Learned this at work today :)

My mother has a Passat wagon.  They are not made any longer.  I told her I have dibs.  I'm a man.

You probably know this but the rest of the world outside the USA gets wagon (estate cars) versions of just about every sedan we can buy here in the USA.

Don't even get me started on this... it drives me nuts every time I think about it!

I drive the wagon version of a Kia Rio (Cinco when mine was made, but I think it's Rio 5 now).

[forummm]

Apparently men aren't allowed to like station wagons.

Learned this at work today :)

My mother has a Passat wagon.  They are not made any longer.  I told her I have dibs.  I'm a man.

You probably know this but the rest of the world outside the USA gets wagon (estate cars) versions of just about every sedan we can buy here in the USA.

Don't even get me started on this... it drives me nuts every time I think about it!

I drive the wagon version of a Kia Rio (Cinco when mine was made, but I think it's Rio 5 now).

The "Rio Cinco" has a nice ring to it. But Donald Trump would probably want it deported.

[horsepoor]

Apparently men aren't allowed to like station wagons.

Learned this at work today :)

My mother has a Passat wagon.  They are not made any longer.  I told her I have dibs.  I'm a man.

You probably know this but the rest of the world outside the USA gets wagon (estate cars) versions of just about every sedan we can buy here in the USA.

Chevy Cruze, Honda Accord, Ford Fusion (Mondeo), Civic, etc... And the manual transmission can be had in all of these places too...

Our #1 car choice next time is a VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI (diesel) with a six speed manual transmission. The turbo deisel CR-V with a 6MT would also be high on my list but we aren't allowed to buy them here in the USA- Land of the Free.

Land of the free my.... ;) Can't have the CR-V imported but the good 'ole boys can "roll coal" in their domestic branded pickups. Check out You Tube if you don't know what that means. ;)

It's so dumb that there is no longer a Civic hatchback available in the US.  Had a '95 Civic Si all through school, and it was the best car evah.  Drove the shit out of it.  People were constantly begging to buy it from me.  The Fit is good, but I think the build quality of my Si was superior, and it was much cooler looking, too.

[RetiredAt63]

Um, seriously?  I think most models come in a hatchback in Canada.  I wish they were actual station wagons, the design of a hatchback is slightly less roomy.  I love love my Mazda3 hatchback, and am NEVER going back to a sedan.

Cross-border shopping?  Our emission standards should meet those of most US states.

[HairyUpperLip]

It's so dumb that there is no longer a Civic hatchback available in the US.  Had a '95 Civic Si all through school, and it was the best car evah.  Drove the shit out of it.  People were constantly begging to buy it from me.  The Fit is good, but I think the build quality of my Si was superior, and it was much cooler looking, too.

I've been trying to purchase a 1992-1995 Honda Civic Si for the last couple of years. I'm trying to find one actually worth buying.

The ones worth buying are popping up for $12-16k.

The ones that are all beat up are still asking for $4-6k.

[grantmeaname]

There are a couple nice 90's civic hatches parked on my street and the street next to it. The amount they go for on craigslist is absolutely horrifying though.

[Friar]

Apparently men aren't allowed to like station wagons.

Learned this at work today :)

Well screw those people. Personally, I think that the estate versions of cars generally look much better than the saloons and have essentially the same fuel economy for much more space inside!

But then I have an estate so maybe I'm just biased :P

[Rural]

It's so dumb that there is no longer a Civic hatchback available in the US.  Had a '95 Civic Si all through school, and it was the best car evah.  Drove the shit out of it.  People were constantly begging to buy it from me.  The Fit is good, but I think the build quality of my Si was superior, and it was much cooler looking, too.

I've been trying to purchase a 1992-1995 Honda Civic Si for the last couple of years. I'm trying to find one actually worth buying.

The ones worth buying are popping up for $12-16k.

The ones that are all beat up are still asking for $4-6k.

My Civic head gasket nightmare involved an Si, though I've also had trouble with a sedan version (one 1989, one I don't remember but late 80s or early 90s). So, it was an issue. That said, any that are still running now have probably not got that particular problem.

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

I saw a GoFundMe for a chick trying to raise money to get out of her DUI charges.  Super classy.

There was recently a road-rage-induced hit-and-run against a cyclist here in Atlanta. (Last I heard, the cyclist had emerged from his coma and is now re-learning motor skills.) Once they found the car involved, which was hidden under a tarp in a parking deck, it was determined that it belonged to the girlfriend of the perpetrator. She's been charged with "tampering with evidence" because she helped hide the car.

That asshole had the audacity to try to get her legal expenses crowdfunded!

"As you may or may not know, I've been accused of charges in a high profile case that has sucked up a vast amount of my funds (and my family) for finishing college and personal bills. Because of a crime someone else has done, I may be facing 5 years plus in jail for allegedly "tampering with evidence" With God on my side and a great lawyer, I have to come up with $3,000 after paying a $2,500 bail that I'm still paying on. I'm never the one to put my "business" in the street, but The Bible says, "When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom (Proverbs 11:2)." With that said, I need help! End of story, no sugar coating to it. I'm humble enough to know that when I need help, I need to ask for it so I just pray that out of the kindness of everyone's heart you can please give whatever you can to help me beat this case and win this victory that I KNOW God has already taken care of!"

(Luckily, once a few people complained, the page got taken down.)

I just LOVE the quotation of biblical scripture used in the crowd funding appeal. Never mind that they have apparently missed the main tenants of Christianity and the Ten Commandants with their behavior (nearly killing a person and then trying to avoid responsibility).

I'm confused, so the women owns the car that was used in a hit-and-run on a cyclist and then she helped him hide it in a parking ramp with a tarp (I'm guessing until the heat died down). Has the man been charged for assault with a deadly weapon, hit-and-run, and many more offenses?

That said, I am glad that gf is being charged. Do you know if she is claiming that she is innocent of all this? Is she saying that her bf lied to her, or that she has a perfectly innocent reason that she hide her car in a ramp with a tarp over it?

So...we're not doing that 'innocent until proven guilty' thing anymore? I thought it was kind of the basis of our justice system.

I guess this will help us a lot with the cost of legal aid. Why spend money defending criminals?

"Of course. Charging the innocent would be cruel!"

-Gul Dukat

[horsepoor]

It's so dumb that there is no longer a Civic hatchback available in the US.  Had a '95 Civic Si all through school, and it was the best car evah.  Drove the shit out of it.  People were constantly begging to buy it from me.  The Fit is good, but I think the build quality of my Si was superior, and it was much cooler looking, too.

I've been trying to purchase a 1992-1995 Honda Civic Si for the last couple of years. I'm trying to find one actually worth buying.

The ones worth buying are popping up for $12-16k.

The ones that are all beat up are still asking for $4-6k.

Wow, should have hung on to that thing and let it appreciate!

[Papa Mustache]

Not clueless at all. It's a classic humblebrag.

Actually just everything about that FB post makes my tooth fillings hurt. The way she had to slip in that it was a 'palladium and cranberry interior'.... although now I Google it that colour combination is HOT. Someone stop me...

All except the goofy tablet screen standing up on the dash... That would seriously keep me from buying that car... Oh - and the pricetag. ;)

[Zaga]

My husband's just tall enough that he can't get into sedans easily, so when I car shopped a few years ago we only looked at hatchbacks.  It was a tough search!  We ended up with a Soul, which so far has been a great choice. 

[Papa Mustache]

MMM has made me a grumpy old man.  Getting tired of saving and not spending sometimes...

MMM has strengthened my resolve to save. The Anti-Mushtachian-Wall-of-Shame-and-Comedy threads has reminded me that those people with shiny things often have lots of debt. Most of the one's I know best do.

I'm hoping I can educate my kids past those mistakes same mistakes I made as a bachelor. Time will tell... Reading the "Overhead @" threads ought to be required reading by high school students.

[zephyr911]

I was a dumbass for an entire decade *after* learning about investing. Who knew you had to avoid spending all your money if you wanted to invest it?

[Papa Mustache]

Fellow mom venting:

The kicker: it's ‎2886 km | 1789 miles from Calgary to Kingston so that locker is not getting cleared out any time soon.‎
‎

How does that even work???  You take a major vacation periodically to visit your comic collection?

Thank you MMM for reminding how silly it is to rent a storage unit most of the time. I've known so many people who rent them for years to store odds and ends with very little value beyond sentimental value.