Author Topic: Overheard on Facebook  (Read 4542932 times)

remizidae

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8100 on: May 08, 2019, 06:49:38 PM »
Not financially related, but I've got one FB 'friend' who is all bothered about the new HR bill requiring that students attending public school have their MMR vaccines. Majority of her argument is "I've never been vaccinated and I've been fine! and are you ADULTS keeping up with your boosters?! Because that makes you essentially unvaccinated too!"

1. Your survivorship bias is very strong.
2. I'm sure you do other risk-mitigating procedures in your daily life (i.e. wear a seatbelt), so why is this different? (everything in vaccines has been proven safe)
3. I'm sure that adults who need their boosters will get them

It takes everything within my willpower not to want to smack her into next week.

"But I'm a medical professional too, so I'm all educated!"

Fine, you may see the statistics and have a different opinion, but I don't care about your opinion when there is a sick child (when this was preventable!) involved.

OT but: Iím not at all confident that adults are all up to date on their shots. How would you even find out whether you need a booster? Most adults donít have primary care doctors.

CindyBS

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8101 on: May 08, 2019, 08:29:28 PM »
Not financially related, but I've got one FB 'friend' who is all bothered about the new HR bill requiring that students attending public school have their MMR vaccines. Majority of her argument is "I've never been vaccinated and I've been fine! and are you ADULTS keeping up with your boosters?! Because that makes you essentially unvaccinated too!"

1. Your survivorship bias is very strong.
2. I'm sure you do other risk-mitigating procedures in your daily life (i.e. wear a seatbelt), so why is this different? (everything in vaccines has been proven safe)
3. I'm sure that adults who need their boosters will get them

It takes everything within my willpower not to want to smack her into next week.

"But I'm a medical professional too, so I'm all educated!"

Fine, you may see the statistics and have a different opinion, but I don't care about your opinion when there is a sick child (when this was preventable!) involved.

OT but: Iím not at all confident that adults are all up to date on their shots. How would you even find out whether you need a booster? Most adults donít have primary care doctors.

Doctors can run a test often called "running titers" - basically they see if you have the antibodies.   I got a MMR booster a few years ago b/c at the time I was working with an unvaccinated child and some of these measles outbreaks were starting.  My doctor didn't even bother to run titers based on my age (early 40's at the time) - she said it was pretty likely the immunity was all gone and she just went ahead and vaccinated me.    I hadn't had any boosters other the ones in the normal course of getting vaccinated as a kid. 

merula

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8102 on: May 09, 2019, 06:58:25 AM »
OT but: Iím not at all confident that adults are all up to date on their shots. How would you even find out whether you need a booster? Most adults donít have primary care doctors.

Cindy's right about titers, but also, healthy, non-elderly adults who contract measles are less likely to suffer serious health impacts.

And I would be just fine if this law was expanded to adults. I had to convince my entire family that they weren't going to see my newborn unless they got their flu, MMR and Tdap boosters, which wasn't fun. I'm still pretty sure my brother flat-out lied to me.

SwordGuy

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8103 on: May 09, 2019, 07:42:37 AM »
OT but: Iím not at all confident that adults are all up to date on their shots. How would you even find out whether you need a booster? Most adults donít have primary care doctors.

Cindy's right about titers, but also, healthy, non-elderly adults who contract measles are less likely to suffer serious health impacts.

And I would be just fine if this law was expanded to adults. I had to convince my entire family that they weren't going to see my newborn unless they got their flu, MMR and Tdap boosters, which wasn't fun. I'm still pretty sure my brother flat-out lied to me.

Ask for proof.  It *is* that important.

Kitsune

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8104 on: May 09, 2019, 08:44:34 AM »
For the most part, in terms of boosters:
- healthy adults who have had the MMR vaccine should, probably, have retained some immunity, but no proof without titers... which cost more to run than administering the booster, so most doctors do that on request. CLSC if you're in Quebec; it'll be free.
- tdap every 10 years AND before becoming pregnant, because pertussis kills babies and also tetanus kills adults.
- Flu vaccine every year, seriously, y'all, no one needs this.
- If you're over 50, shingles vaccines can save you a LOT of pain. Also, if you're over 65, a pneumoccocal vaccine is recommended.
- And, if I'm covering bases: it's recommended for younger adults/teenagers/ideally children who are not yet sexually active and haven't caught HPV yet, but it is VERY prevalent. If you have any intent of having new sexual partners, get the HPV vaccine regardless of your age (but if you're over 26 you'll need to pay for it out of pocket). Lack of STDs and lower cancer risk is a great thing, guys.

Note: I'm not a doctor but I manage a medical clinic, these are fairly standard recommendations, supported by the Canadian government: (https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/vaccination-adults.html for reference)


Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8105 on: May 09, 2019, 11:04:09 AM »
OT but: Iím not at all confident that adults are all up to date on their shots. How would you even find out whether you need a booster? Most adults donít have primary care doctors.

Cindy's right about titers, but also, healthy, non-elderly adults who contract measles are less likely to suffer serious health impacts.

And I would be just fine if this law was expanded to adults. I had to convince my entire family that they weren't going to see my newborn unless they got their flu, MMR and Tdap boosters, which wasn't fun. I'm still pretty sure my brother flat-out lied to me.

Ask for proof.  It *is* that important.
What?  Adults need MMR boosters? 

GAH.  I have had so many MMR shots in my lifetime.. maybe 4?  (but I did not take the records from my parent's place, thinking I was done with that by age 18).. I have even had both red measles and german measles.

The extra booster shots were for 1) an outbreak in my area when I was a kid and everyone needed to get a booster to go back to school, as they discovered that the shots / series given out when I was young were not as effective as previously thought (e.g. see "had measles as a child" above.).. and 2)  they automatically gave a booster to all 12 year old girls in my health area because measles on pregnant moms is very dangerous.

Instead of demanding that all adults get a MMR booster, pause for a moment, and ask your regional public health for more information.  For my area, it is extremely unlikely for an adult over 50 year old to not be vaccinated and to have never contacted measles (as it is highly contagious and vaccinations when they were children were less common, so nearly everyone without the vaccine got measles).  How likely is it that adults in your area need vaccines?

Kitsune

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8106 on: May 09, 2019, 12:10:10 PM »
OT but: Iím not at all confident that adults are all up to date on their shots. How would you even find out whether you need a booster? Most adults donít have primary care doctors.

Cindy's right about titers, but also, healthy, non-elderly adults who contract measles are less likely to suffer serious health impacts.

And I would be just fine if this law was expanded to adults. I had to convince my entire family that they weren't going to see my newborn unless they got their flu, MMR and Tdap boosters, which wasn't fun. I'm still pretty sure my brother flat-out lied to me.

Ask for proof.  It *is* that important.
What?  Adults need MMR boosters? 

GAH.  I have had so many MMR shots in my lifetime.. maybe 4?  (but I did not take the records from my parent's place, thinking I was done with that by age 18).. I have even had both red measles and german measles.

The extra booster shots were for 1) an outbreak in my area when I was a kid and everyone needed to get a booster to go back to school, as they discovered that the shots / series given out when I was young were not as effective as previously thought (e.g. see "had measles as a child" above.).. and 2)  they automatically gave a booster to all 12 year old girls in my health area because measles on pregnant moms is very dangerous.

Instead of demanding that all adults get a MMR booster, pause for a moment, and ask your regional public health for more information.  For my area, it is extremely unlikely for an adult over 50 year old to not be vaccinated and to have never contacted measles (as it is highly contagious and vaccinations when they were children were less common, so nearly everyone without the vaccine got measles).  How likely is it that adults in your area need vaccines?

The point, for measles, is not that they haven't been vaccinated - it's that the population that has recieved the recommended 2 shots have a 3% chance of having no immune response (5% if you've just had one dose, statistically).

97% herd immunity is usually fine, until people stop vaccinating.

And you don't now if you're part of that 3% unless you get lab tests that show that your blood produces an immune response (in which case: yay 97% effectiveness!) or just get a booster, which is, in most cases, cheaper and easier.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8107 on: May 09, 2019, 02:36:17 PM »
I recently took all my vaccine records (except flu shots, apparently I don't save those) to the doctor and asked for boosters on whatever I needed. They appreciated the complete-ish record, sorted through all of it, asked questions about my lifestyle, and determined I needed 3 things. HPV was one as I missed the original age cutoff. Also got the pneumonia one cause if I got sick it'd be really bad. Don't remember the 3rd.

That's in addition to me getting TDAP a couple years ago cause I poked myself with a rusty nail, needed tetanus booster, and TDAP was available.

CindyBS

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8108 on: May 09, 2019, 03:16:23 PM »
OT but: Iím not at all confident that adults are all up to date on their shots. How would you even find out whether you need a booster? Most adults donít have primary care doctors.

healthy, non-elderly adults who contract measles are less likely to suffer serious health impacts.


Please, please do not only take into consideration if you are a healthy adult - but who you may infect who is not a healthy adult.  That means every immunocompromised person including anyone going through cancer or chemo, every baby under age 1, every transplant patient, etc.  Measles is so contagious that you can walk through a room where there is an infected person and have no "contact" with them and still get it.  Then you are usually infectious for a few days before you see any symptoms.  Basically any public place is potentially a place to get and spread measles without having any formal contact with anyone. 

My son is immunocompromised and while measles would be difficult for any healthy adult - it has a 20-70% death rate in kids like him.  It is so, so scary.  He is not able to get a MMR vaccine.

Imma

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8109 on: May 09, 2019, 03:32:06 PM »
I recently took all my vaccine records (except flu shots, apparently I don't save those) to the doctor and asked for boosters on whatever I needed. They appreciated the complete-ish record, sorted through all of it, asked questions about my lifestyle, and determined I needed 3 things. HPV was one as I missed the original age cutoff. Also got the pneumonia one cause if I got sick it'd be really bad. Don't remember the 3rd.

That's in addition to me getting TDAP a couple years ago cause I poked myself with a rusty nail, needed tetanus booster, and TDAP was available.

You got the HPV vaccine as a sexually active adult? I was also too old to get it when it was introduced and was refused the shot later because I was already sexually active. I guess I need to talk to my doctor again sometime! The HPV shot take up rate is something like 40% where I live. The argument I've heard most is that it's an STD and the parents are sure their daughter is a "decent girl" who won't sleep around. Well, for one, you have no idea what your young daughter's sexual behaviour will be like when they grow up, and you can also contract HPV through involuntary sexual contact and even from the only sexual partner you'll ever have. I really don't understand why we only vaccinate girls and not boys. 

I am also immunocompromised and can't get some shots. The ones I can get, I absolutely make sure I get, including boosters. My immune system needs all the help it can get.

Kitsune

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8110 on: May 09, 2019, 03:57:06 PM »
I recently took all my vaccine records (except flu shots, apparently I don't save those) to the doctor and asked for boosters on whatever I needed. They appreciated the complete-ish record, sorted through all of it, asked questions about my lifestyle, and determined I needed 3 things. HPV was one as I missed the original age cutoff. Also got the pneumonia one cause if I got sick it'd be really bad. Don't remember the 3rd.

That's in addition to me getting TDAP a couple years ago cause I poked myself with a rusty nail, needed tetanus booster, and TDAP was available.

You got the HPV vaccine as a sexually active adult? I was also too old to get it when it was introduced and was refused the shot later because I was already sexually active. I guess I need to talk to my doctor again sometime! The HPV shot take up rate is something like 40% where I live. The argument I've heard most is that it's an STD and the parents are sure their daughter is a "decent girl" who won't sleep around. Well, for one, you have no idea what your young daughter's sexual behaviour will be like when they grow up, and you can also contract HPV through involuntary sexual contact and even from the only sexual partner you'll ever have. I really don't understand why we only vaccinate girls and not boys. 

I am also immunocompromised and can't get some shots. The ones I can get, I absolutely make sure I get, including boosters. My immune system needs all the help it can get.

You vaccinate the girls because HPV specifically causes cervical cancer, which boys... don't have. (Also penile and throat cancers, equally devastating though less frequent).

That said, the Quebec government does recommend it for boys, and I seem to recall the CDC does too.

And you CAN get vaccinated once you're sexually active - the public plan here won't cover it over age (I believe) 25, but theres no indication to NOT, unless you just want to assume you've caught it already... seems irresponsible from a medical standpoint, and I would definitely push further

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8111 on: May 09, 2019, 04:23:46 PM »
Yes, the HPV vaccine is also for boys.

I had a very awkward conversation with a very Catholic aunt who was talking about getting her girls the HPV vaccine, which did not exist until I was (a) 26, so right at the top of the age range at that time and (b) had been married several years. She did not see what me being married had to do with my chances of getting cancer. I changed the subject.

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8112 on: May 09, 2019, 04:23:55 PM »
HPV - the reason to vaccinate boys is the public health "herd immunization" view.   The more people vaccinated, the less likely unvaccinated people will contract it.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 10:15:56 PM by Goldielocks »

ysette9

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8113 on: May 09, 2019, 08:15:42 PM »
I canít understand the resistance to this vaccine. It is literally a vaccine against CANCER, you know, that thing people fundraise for and do walkathons for and wear ribbons of various colors for. What could be less controversial than trying to eliminate cancer?

We Americans have such a weird prudish hangup over everything related to sex. It is disappointingly juvenile and Victorian all at the same time.

Alfred J Quack

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8114 on: May 10, 2019, 05:43:12 AM »
I recently took all my vaccine records (except flu shots, apparently I don't save those) to the doctor and asked for boosters on whatever I needed. They appreciated the complete-ish record, sorted through all of it, asked questions about my lifestyle, and determined I needed 3 things. HPV was one as I missed the original age cutoff. Also got the pneumonia one cause if I got sick it'd be really bad. Don't remember the 3rd.

That's in addition to me getting TDAP a couple years ago cause I poked myself with a rusty nail, needed tetanus booster, and TDAP was available.

You got the HPV vaccine as a sexually active adult? I was also too old to get it when it was introduced and was refused the shot later because I was already sexually active. I guess I need to talk to my doctor again sometime! The HPV shot take up rate is something like 40% where I live. The argument I've heard most is that it's an STD and the parents are sure their daughter is a "decent girl" who won't sleep around. Well, for one, you have no idea what your young daughter's sexual behaviour will be like when they grow up, and you can also contract HPV through involuntary sexual contact and even from the only sexual partner you'll ever have. I really don't understand why we only vaccinate girls and not boys. 

I am also immunocompromised and can't get some shots. The ones I can get, I absolutely make sure I get, including boosters. My immune system needs all the help it can get.

You vaccinate the girls because HPV specifically causes cervical cancer, which boys... don't have. (Also penile and throat cancers, equally devastating though less frequent).

That said, the Quebec government does recommend it for boys, and I seem to recall the CDC does too.

And you CAN get vaccinated once you're sexually active - the public plan here won't cover it over age (I believe) 25, but theres no indication to NOT, unless you just want to assume you've caught it already... seems irresponsible from a medical standpoint, and I would definitely push further

Depends on the country, in NL you can't get vaccinated after 18 unless you specifically request it but you also have to pay for it out of pocket. Considering how much pain such a vaccine can probably prevent, I'd consider it worth the money regardless.

It is a bit strange though, to put an age-limit on a vaccine that can prevent it's base cost times 10.000 in healthcare cost later in life...

Kitsune

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8115 on: May 10, 2019, 07:08:49 AM »
It is a bit strange though, to put an age-limit on a vaccine that can prevent it's base cost times 10.000 in healthcare cost later in life...

The thing is that the vaccine is not cheap, and that enough people over that age range already have HPV (over 40% in 2013-2014, based on CDC data) that it makes sense, on a population level, to focus the vaccination efforts on people who have a higher chance of not having caught it yet in order to eliminate prevalence (hence why we vaccinate in late elementary school - you want it before chance of consensual sexual activity occurs).

Makes sense on a population level, but not really on a personal level - if I have a 60% chance of not having the cause of cervical cancer right now, would I take a vaccine to cement those odds, even if there's a 40% chance that I already have it? HELLS YES I WOULD. Especially if, oh say, I'd been in a monogamous relationship since my teen years and was suddenly looking for new partners (so: low risk currently, high risk future, freakin vaccinate, not having cancer is awesome?). There's a difference between what's sensible on a population level and what's sensible on a personal level - statistics don't reflect individual reality.

(disclaimer: I was actually part of the test group for the vaccine many, many years ago.)

schmerna

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8116 on: May 10, 2019, 10:12:34 AM »
I canít understand the resistance to this vaccine. It is literally a vaccine against CANCER, you know, that thing people fundraise for and do walkathons for and wear ribbons of various colors for. What could be less controversial than trying to eliminate cancer?

We Americans have such a weird prudish hangup over everything related to sex. It is disappointingly juvenile and Victorian all at the same time.

While it is a very important vaccine, it is NOT a literal vaccination against cancer.  It is a vaccination against subtypes of a virus that can cause cancer.  Boys and girls should be vaccinated to greatly reduce the risk of women developing cervical cancer.

My apologies, I know for most of the world this is not important difference but very salient my previous life.  I can't help myself...

mm1970

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8117 on: May 10, 2019, 10:54:10 AM »
I canít understand the resistance to this vaccine. It is literally a vaccine against CANCER, you know, that thing people fundraise for and do walkathons for and wear ribbons of various colors for. What could be less controversial than trying to eliminate cancer?

We Americans have such a weird prudish hangup over everything related to sex. It is disappointingly juvenile and Victorian all at the same time.

While it is a very important vaccine, it is NOT a literal vaccination against cancer.  It is a vaccination against subtypes of a virus that can cause cancer.  Boys and girls should be vaccinated to greatly reduce the risk of women developing cervical cancer.

My apologies, I know for most of the world this is not important difference but very salient my previous life.  I can't help myself...
Yes, this is a very good discussion.  My teen just got the HPV vaccination.  I realized it was widespread (2 of my sisters had cervical cancer in the 1990s), but not how widespread.  My doc says that almost everyone has been exposed (I've always come up clean, but then I've been married for 23 years now...so anything else would surprise me at this point.)

ysette9

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8118 on: May 10, 2019, 06:47:49 PM »
I canít understand the resistance to this vaccine. It is literally a vaccine against CANCER, you know, that thing people fundraise for and do walkathons for and wear ribbons of various colors for. What could be less controversial than trying to eliminate cancer?

We Americans have such a weird prudish hangup over everything related to sex. It is disappointingly juvenile and Victorian all at the same time.

While it is a very important vaccine, it is NOT a literal vaccination against cancer.  It is a vaccination against subtypes of a virus that can cause cancer.  Boys and girls should be vaccinated to greatly reduce the risk of women developing cervical cancer.

My apologies, I know for most of the world this is not important difference but very salient my previous life.  I can't help myself...
Totally fair! Thanks for the clarification

marty998

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8119 on: May 10, 2019, 07:43:26 PM »
I just had an exchange (on a Choose FI Facebook group no less) that really got me riled up.

The Antimustachian in question is concerned about certain tax changes if the opposition party wins the upcoming election. She stands to lose a certain amount of tax credits, which indicates she has a share portfolio well over a million dollars, possibly $1.3million, earning dividend income in a zero tax retirement sheltered account.

Instead of selling a small amount (in the order of ~1% or $10,000) to make up for the loss of tax credits each year, she was proposing to blow the entire million, just so she could access the government age pension worth $33k a year, which is really meant for people of little means.

I am so sick of old people who not only don't understand basic maths, (a share portfolio that returns $70-$100k a year basically tax free indefinitely, vs a government pension on the poverty line), but also old people who simply want to milk the taxpayer because they feel like they are entitled to it.

Honestly feel like there should be an age cap on the right to vote sometimes.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 07:47:21 PM by marty998 »

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8120 on: May 10, 2019, 08:04:15 PM »
How would she blow a million dollars without gaining any hard assets?  Is there no asset test?

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8121 on: May 10, 2019, 08:34:29 PM »
In Australia, ludicrously, there is no assets test on one's primary residence, and even aside from that, you can have several hundred thousand dollars in green bills sitting there and still get a generous pension.

One reason why old Australians suck the rest of us dry. They are all entitled, just some (like the woman in question) more so.

SwordGuy

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8122 on: May 10, 2019, 08:35:02 PM »
How would she blow a million dollars without gaining any hard assets?  Is there no asset test?

Easy as all get out.

Buy 3 million dollars worth of items on credit and quit paying when you run out of money.   The stuff gets repossessed and you're left with nothing.


And yes, I know multiple people who not only did that, they also lost everything they owned, including stuff like a fully paid for house they owned before they got that multi-million dollar windfall.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8123 on: May 10, 2019, 09:00:06 PM »
How would she blow a million dollars without gaining any hard assets?  Is there no asset test?

Easy as all get out.

Buy 3 million dollars worth of items on credit and quit paying when you run out of money.   The stuff gets repossessed and you're left with nothing.


And yes, I know multiple people who not only did that, they also lost everything they owned, including stuff like a fully paid for house they owned before they got that multi-million dollar windfall.

Doesnít really sound like any fun though

SwordGuy

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8124 on: May 10, 2019, 09:04:11 PM »
How would she blow a million dollars without gaining any hard assets?  Is there no asset test?

Easy as all get out.

Buy 3 million dollars worth of items on credit and quit paying when you run out of money.   The stuff gets repossessed and you're left with nothing.


And yes, I know multiple people who not only did that, they also lost everything they owned, including stuff like a fully paid for house they owned before they got that multi-million dollar windfall.

Doesnít really sound like any fun though

No, it wasn't.  The family self-destructed.  Wife divorced husband, husband got drunk and passed out in his driveway and died from the cold, wife went completely broke, son took over family business and ran it into the ground and lost the house he had built and paid for before all this money hit the family and went broke.  Daughter kept her head.   75% failure rate on handling the money in this family.   They were such a nice couple, too.

Imma

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8125 on: May 11, 2019, 04:10:31 PM »
I recently took all my vaccine records (except flu shots, apparently I don't save those) to the doctor and asked for boosters on whatever I needed. They appreciated the complete-ish record, sorted through all of it, asked questions about my lifestyle, and determined I needed 3 things. HPV was one as I missed the original age cutoff. Also got the pneumonia one cause if I got sick it'd be really bad. Don't remember the 3rd.

That's in addition to me getting TDAP a couple years ago cause I poked myself with a rusty nail, needed tetanus booster, and TDAP was available.

You got the HPV vaccine as a sexually active adult? I was also too old to get it when it was introduced and was refused the shot later because I was already sexually active. I guess I need to talk to my doctor again sometime! The HPV shot take up rate is something like 40% where I live. The argument I've heard most is that it's an STD and the parents are sure their daughter is a "decent girl" who won't sleep around. Well, for one, you have no idea what your young daughter's sexual behaviour will be like when they grow up, and you can also contract HPV through involuntary sexual contact and even from the only sexual partner you'll ever have. I really don't understand why we only vaccinate girls and not boys. 

I am also immunocompromised and can't get some shots. The ones I can get, I absolutely make sure I get, including boosters. My immune system needs all the help it can get.

You vaccinate the girls because HPV specifically causes cervical cancer, which boys... don't have. (Also penile and throat cancers, equally devastating though less frequent).

That said, the Quebec government does recommend it for boys, and I seem to recall the CDC does too.

And you CAN get vaccinated once you're sexually active - the public plan here won't cover it over age (I believe) 25, but theres no indication to NOT, unless you just want to assume you've caught it already... seems irresponsible from a medical standpoint, and I would definitely push further

I will definitely ask again next time I see my doctor (a different one than the doctor who said I couldn't get it).

As an adult, I know I have to pay for it out of pocket but as it costs less than Ä200 that's a very easy choice for me to make. I recently had a meningitis booster that cost Ä70. That's a no-brainer to me.

JLee

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8126 on: May 13, 2019, 06:53:48 AM »
https://www.medpagetoday.com/obgyn/cervicalcancer/75551

For what it's worth, the FDA in the US approved the HPV vaccine for up to age 45.

FireHiker

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8127 on: June 06, 2019, 11:46:06 AM »
Reviving this one today. On the Facebook mom group today I saw a "what is a local place to get yummy avocado toast" post. There were 31 comments with people replying about crazy high end places. I was tempted to chime in with "I make it myself at home when avocados are on sale"...but I didn't. This is the same group that has people regularly ask about cosmetic surgery, house cleaners, etc. I would ditch the place entirely except it's helpful if I want to know what's going on (total group of busybodies) and it's an excellent source of free stuff to pick up and pass along to a local refugee group in a different neighborhood...

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8128 on: June 06, 2019, 12:44:09 PM »
Avocado is a staple in my diet and always has been, and I have yet to see avocado toast on a menu or order it. After hearing about it derided so much recently I am keen to give it a try.

A favorite breakfast for me is avocado cheese sandwich, bonus points for adding an egg. Pretty much every food is better with some avocado on top!

FireHiker

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8129 on: June 06, 2019, 02:12:17 PM »
Avocado is a staple in my diet and always has been, and I have yet to see avocado toast on a menu or order it. After hearing about it derided so much recently I am keen to give it a try.

A favorite breakfast for me is avocado cheese sandwich, bonus points for adding an egg. Pretty much every food is better with some avocado on top!

I've never ordered it anywhere either! We toast whole wheat bread, fry an egg, slice an avocado on top. Pretty much my favorite breakfast...but only when avocados are on sale or our co-worker (who has a farm) brings some in the office for free.

I was at an airport earlier this year on business when a young man ordered a very specific avocado toast with several modifications (gluten free bread, vegan cheese, etc). First time I'd ever even seen avocado toast on a menu. Fortunately it was a business trip and I had an incredible salad from the same place, still well under per diem.

economista

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8130 on: June 06, 2019, 03:28:43 PM »
I love eating avocado toast at home and I have a very specific way of making it. I toast the bread, put smashed avocado on top (sliced avocado likes to fall off), sprinkle with salt and sirarcha, and then a fried egg on top. It is heavenly

ysette9

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Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8131 on: June 06, 2019, 04:23:59 PM »
@bracken_joy introduced me to avocado on bread with the addition of Trader Joeís chili lime seasoning. YUM

Incidentally that seasoning is what my 5 year-old calls ďmy favorite spiceĒ. She will literally eat it directly off a plate with her finger

mm1970

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8132 on: June 06, 2019, 05:02:14 PM »
I love eating avocado toast at home and I have a very specific way of making it. I toast the bread, put smashed avocado on top (sliced avocado likes to fall off), sprinkle with salt and sirarcha, and then a fried egg on top. It is heavenly
Change the sriracha to "everything but the bagel seasoning" and ... same

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8133 on: June 06, 2019, 08:41:07 PM »

Avocado is a staple in my diet and always has been, and I have yet to see avocado toast on a menu or order it. After hearing about it derided so much recently I am keen to give it a try.

A favorite breakfast for me is avocado cheese sandwich, bonus points for adding an egg. Pretty much every food is better with some avocado on top!

I've never ordered it anywhere either! We toast whole wheat bread, fry an egg, slice an avocado on top. Pretty much my favorite breakfast...but only when avocados are on sale or our co-worker (who has a farm) brings some in the office for free.

I was at an airport earlier this year on business when a young man ordered a very specific avocado toast with several modifications (gluten free bread, vegan cheese, etc). First time I'd ever even seen avocado toast on a menu. Fortunately it was a business trip and I had an incredible salad from the same place, still well under per diem.

I think it's more popular in Australia.  I see tons of guacamole on menus, or sliced avocado, but never seen "smashed and spread on toast"

P.S. FU trump for driving up Avocado prices

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8134 on: June 07, 2019, 05:21:35 AM »
I love eating avocado toast at home and I have a very specific way of making it. I toast the bread, put smashed avocado on top (sliced avocado likes to fall off), sprinkle with salt and sirarcha, and then a fried egg on top. It is heavenly
Change the sriracha to "everything but the bagel seasoning" and ... same

Add lime juice to the sriracha and I'm right there with you. Yum.

But yum at-home food, for like 1$/portion...

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8135 on: June 11, 2019, 06:17:15 AM »
Not from Facebook, but I had to share what my husband told me yesterday. My husband and some of his friends went camping the week of Memorial Day. They started talking about money and when my husband mentioned how much personal spending money he gets every month ($400, this includes a few small bills that he pays and any spending on booze or restaurants) his friends freaked out because......... that wasn't enough money, how could he possibly have any fun or do anything on that amount?!!
These guys make really good money, like really good money (100k-200k) but between the cars, vacations, and "toys",  they'll be lucky to retire at 67.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8136 on: June 11, 2019, 06:26:31 AM »
Not from Facebook, but I had to share what my husband told me yesterday. My husband and some of his friends went camping the week of Memorial Day. They started talking about money and when my husband mentioned how much personal spending money he gets every month ($400, this includes a few small bills that he pays and any spending on booze or restaurants) his friends freaked out because......... that wasn't enough money, how could he possibly have any fun or do anything on that amount?!!
These guys make really good money, like really good money (100k-200k) but between the cars, vacations, and "toys",  they'll be lucky to retire at 67.

???????? 400$ OMFG!

(For comparison: my husband and I make over 100K, and generally spend 50-60$/month on personal stuff - books for me, music for him, the occasional coffee or lunch out with friends... And this is not feeling deprived. This is genuinely how much I want to spend on a few books and a few lunches with friends. Exactly how much free time am I supposed to have that needs filling???)

Caveat: work pays for half my cell phone and my husband's is completely paid for by his work, and neither of us watch much TV but we keep netflix around as a family expense because sometimes a half hour of Octonauts is what lets us get dinner ready and chores done.

Fae

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8137 on: June 11, 2019, 06:49:34 AM »
Not from Facebook, but I had to share what my husband told me yesterday. My husband and some of his friends went camping the week of Memorial Day. They started talking about money and when my husband mentioned how much personal spending money he gets every month ($400, this includes a few small bills that he pays and any spending on booze or restaurants) his friends freaked out because......... that wasn't enough money, how could he possibly have any fun or do anything on that amount?!!
These guys make really good money, like really good money (100k-200k) but between the cars, vacations, and "toys",  they'll be lucky to retire at 67.


???????? 400$ OMFG!

(For comparison: my husband and I make over 100K, and generally spend 50-60$/month on personal stuff - books for me, music for him, the occasional coffee or lunch out with friends... And this is not feeling deprived. This is genuinely how much I want to spend on a few books and a few lunches with friends. Exactly how much free time am I supposed to have that needs filling???)

Caveat: work pays for half my cell phone and my husband's is completely paid for by his work, and neither of us watch much TV but we keep netflix around as a family expense because sometimes a half hour of Octonauts is what lets us get dinner ready and chores done.

Yep, $400 is a ridiculous amount of money, which is why my eyes about popped out when I heard his friends thought that was peanuts. That money also goes for things you're probably not including in your personal spending money like the gas for his car, his haircuts, netflix, yearly member pass to local museum/village. What makes it worse, he didn't mention any of that to his friends, they thought that was the amount he can spend on whatever.

Kitsune

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8138 on: June 11, 2019, 07:08:35 AM »
Not from Facebook, but I had to share what my husband told me yesterday. My husband and some of his friends went camping the week of Memorial Day. They started talking about money and when my husband mentioned how much personal spending money he gets every month ($400, this includes a few small bills that he pays and any spending on booze or restaurants) his friends freaked out because......... that wasn't enough money, how could he possibly have any fun or do anything on that amount?!!
These guys make really good money, like really good money (100k-200k) but between the cars, vacations, and "toys",  they'll be lucky to retire at 67.


???????? 400$ OMFG!

(For comparison: my husband and I make over 100K, and generally spend 50-60$/month on personal stuff - books for me, music for him, the occasional coffee or lunch out with friends... And this is not feeling deprived. This is genuinely how much I want to spend on a few books and a few lunches with friends. Exactly how much free time am I supposed to have that needs filling???)

Caveat: work pays for half my cell phone and my husband's is completely paid for by his work, and neither of us watch much TV but we keep netflix around as a family expense because sometimes a half hour of Octonauts is what lets us get dinner ready and chores done.

Yep, $400 is a ridiculous amount of money, which is why my eyes about popped out when I heard his friends thought that was peanuts. That money also goes for things you're probably not including in your personal spending money like the gas for his car, his haircuts, netflix, yearly member pass to local museum/village. What makes it worse, he didn't mention any of that to his friends, they thought that was the amount he can spend on whatever.

Yeah, we live in the country and commute to work together (dropping the kids off at daycare and school on the way), so gas is a family expense. Haircuts are actually part of the personal budget, but my husband has hair down to his waist and asks me for a trim when he gets split ends, and I get 22$ haircuts twice a year, so ... minimal impact. And local passes to whatever do get covered by our personal budget, so... barring gas, that's not that different, and the gas is a function of location, for us, rather than choice (like, we can't CHOOSE public transit to work, we'd have to choose to move).

And to be fair: if one month one of us is like 'I wanna do Expensive Thing', then we up the budget for that month. Which has happened... twice, maybe? In 4 years of finance tracking. Let's say it's not usual enough to budget more tightly.

Arbitrage

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8139 on: June 11, 2019, 08:23:27 AM »
Not from Facebook, but I had to share what my husband told me yesterday. My husband and some of his friends went camping the week of Memorial Day. They started talking about money and when my husband mentioned how much personal spending money he gets every month ($400, this includes a few small bills that he pays and any spending on booze or restaurants) his friends freaked out because......... that wasn't enough money, how could he possibly have any fun or do anything on that amount?!!
These guys make really good money, like really good money (100k-200k) but between the cars, vacations, and "toys",  they'll be lucky to retire at 67.

???????? 400$ OMFG!

(For comparison: my husband and I make over 100K, and generally spend 50-60$/month on personal stuff - books for me, music for him, the occasional coffee or lunch out with friends... And this is not feeling deprived. This is genuinely how much I want to spend on a few books and a few lunches with friends. Exactly how much free time am I supposed to have that needs filling???)

Caveat: work pays for half my cell phone and my husband's is completely paid for by his work, and neither of us watch much TV but we keep netflix around as a family expense because sometimes a half hour of Octonauts is what lets us get dinner ready and chores done.

Yeah, we're budgeted $150/month each, but that includes things like almost all clothing and any meals out/activities without the rest of the family.  The only reason it's as high as $150 is because DW eats a lot of lunches out at work and I had to increase it to accommodate.  Aside from that, it's much closer to $50/month.  I'm building up quite a surplus currently.

$400 is a ton IMO, but I know there are plenty of people who spend that and much more. 

mm1970

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8140 on: June 21, 2019, 01:37:49 PM »
I recently got dragged into a convo about babysitting. There's a mom asking a group what a reasonable price would be for a sitter for 4 kids 5 and under (three age 4, one infant).

Well, mostly the responses were $25-30 an hour, maybe $20.

But she didn't really like that.  So I pointed out that it's FOUR kids UNDER the age of 5.  The # of kids and the age of the kids matter.   Then she and two others went on a HUGE rant about how can ANYONE afford to go out, and that's ridiculous.

It moved on to "well, preschool teachers get $15 / hour for 8 kids under 5!"

I mean, aside from the fact that preschool teachers get benefits AND experienced ones get more than that AND they work close to full time - what are you expecting?  Because my babysitter is/was a preschool teacher.  She's in her 30's.  She's WELL WORTH the extra $ because she plays with the kids and they are asleep in their beds when we get home. 

She needs to make a living too, yes?  And $15 / hour is really peanuts here.  Cleaning ladies make $20+.

(FWIW, I was paying $15-18/hr for 2 kids who were 6 and 12).

I didn't SAY it (but thought about it): Look, you don't like the numbers, don't go out.  You find the unicorn willing to watch your four kids under five, and get them to bed, for $12-15 an hour?  Great, enjoy it.  Otherwise?  Find someone to swap with, or do what we did for 10 years.  Don't go out!  The sitters will tell you what they charge, pay it or stay home.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8141 on: June 21, 2019, 01:54:03 PM »
Someone on nextdoor posted she is looking for a babysitter for a 1 and 4 year old, 7am-5pm, Monday-Friday, and she will pay $200/week.

That's 50 hours a week - for $4/hr - for two toddlers. There's no way she'll find any one like that.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8142 on: June 21, 2019, 03:44:14 PM »
Someone on nextdoor posted she is looking for a babysitter for a 1 and 4 year old, 7am-5pm, Monday-Friday, and she will pay $200/week.

That's 50 hours a week - for $4/hr - for two toddlers. There's no way she'll find any one like that.

She might actually be able to get an in-home daycare for that price, depending on the area. When my older son was about a year old, I paid $20/day.

Redstone5

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8143 on: June 21, 2019, 04:26:47 PM »
I didn't get past the $200/week for groceries for a family of 4.

Yeah, that seemed excessive too.

I'm dying to understand how $200/week for a family of 4 can be excessive. How can you possibly eat well (not just subsist on rice & dried beans) with $1.20/person/meal, for example? My family of 2 (although we eat 3 people's worth, tall and active) struggles to hit $200/week. Best I can figure, the only way you can do it is to eat more cheap grains & cheap fats. We eat a lot of produce; even in season & on sale, it's not very good in calories per dollar.

Edit: I guess worth noting we refuse to buy anything made with soy or corn syrup. Mostly we make everything at home, but this does occasionally drive us to more expensive products.
The thing is, it is going to depend a LOT on:
- where you live
- what you eat
- how you shop
- time

I spent years whittling my grocery bill down and down and down.  Down to a science!

It's definitely changed a lot.  Last year we came in at $150/week for 4.  And that was HARD, yo!  This year, I cannot even get it under $170/week.  And my kids get free lunch at school!  But mm1970, why is this?

1.  I live in California.  Food is more expensive here because of higher overhead and gas.
2.  I live in California.  I have access to year round fresh produce.  So yes, while I *could* shop for vegetables exclusively at Sprouts and the 99 cent store (and save BANK), I don't.  I prefer, honestly, to get my produce from the local farmers.  Which costs more.  And we eat a LOT of it.  Because we can.  My produce cost, per week, is about $65-70.  Just produce.
3.  I have two boys.  They are getting bigger.
4.  I like to eat fresh food.  And on top of that, I balance organic/ free range.   And packaging.  I pay a little extra to buy my rice and nuts from the bulk bins, because I can use my own containers and not generate more plastic.
5.  I can't tolerate wheat anymore.  Wheat products are cheap.
6.  I'm kind of over it.  When I was super duper saving money?  Yep, I bought cheaper veggies, I made my own bread.  I can't even eat bread, so I don't make it anymore.  I'm super tired of being the only person who figures out what the fuck to make for dinner too.  So, I buy some things that are just easier to prep because I don't do much of the weekday cooking any more.  I work late almost every day.

I was just reading looking back on this thread and I had to comment.

I totally agree with you!

For over a decade I was solely responsible for feeding a family of 5 on $400 a month in our HCOL area, and it almost drove me insane. It was like a second job; checking 10 or more different flyers all the time, driving to shops all over town to pick up super deals when available, special trips to buy our meat from a local farmer, cooking even staples like yogurt, bread, etc myself, constantly researching ways to do it better and cheaper, lugging massive bags of bulk items home by myself when hugely pregnant LOL.

And the irony is, when I look back on it, I could have just worked an extra evening a week at a part-time job and come out ahead on the budget savings. And the fact that I actually made career sacrifices so that I could spend more time sourcing cheaper groceries is insane! I didn't realize it at the time, perhaps temporary insanity?, but I actually spent less time on my school work and studying for the LSAT to get into law school so I could devote my time to saving pennies at the grocery store instead.

I wonder what I could have accomplished in that time for myself in my career, instead of working miracles at budgeting only to hide from myself the fact that my spouse was irresponsible with money and my marriage was doomed.

I don't mean to imply that the effort isn't worthwhile, but I'm just suggesting that we shouldn't undervalue our own time in doing so.

As much as I love to be independent and resourceful, there is a reason why professional bakers have been a thing since the Mesopotamian era, because it's often cheaper and more cost effective and more environmentally-friendly to leave some things to the experts sometimes.

Do the math yourself and see if it makes sense in your situation!  The Tightwad Gazette books are great for help in doing your calculations and I can't recommend them highly enough. See if your library has them!!

Sorry about this off-topic rant!!

mm1970

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8144 on: June 21, 2019, 06:19:10 PM »
Someone on nextdoor posted she is looking for a babysitter for a 1 and 4 year old, 7am-5pm, Monday-Friday, and she will pay $200/week.

That's 50 hours a week - for $4/hr - for two toddlers. There's no way she'll find any one like that.

She might actually be able to get an in-home daycare for that price, depending on the area. When my older son was about a year old, I paid $20/day.
Yes, but around here, when they are looking on FB for a babysitter, they want someone in their own home.  They aren't interested in "sharing" (aka, paying a licensed home daycare).

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8145 on: June 24, 2019, 05:29:31 AM »
Someone on nextdoor posted she is looking for a babysitter for a 1 and 4 year old, 7am-5pm, Monday-Friday, and she will pay $200/week.

That's 50 hours a week - for $4/hr - for two toddlers. There's no way she'll find any one like that.

She might actually be able to get an in-home daycare for that price, depending on the area. When my older son was about a year old, I paid $20/day.
Yes, but around here, when they are looking on FB for a babysitter, they want someone in their own home.  They aren't interested in "sharing" (aka, paying a licensed home daycare).

Around here, that means that they are looking for a SAHM who will watch their kids in addition to her own.  The entire thing will be under the table.  And there will probably be at least three different people offering to do it.  But then again, $100/kid/week in this area is not *that* much lower than what a center will cost.

DadJokes

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8146 on: June 24, 2019, 06:25:36 AM »
Someone on nextdoor posted she is looking for a babysitter for a 1 and 4 year old, 7am-5pm, Monday-Friday, and she will pay $200/week.

That's 50 hours a week - for $4/hr - for two toddlers. There's no way she'll find any one like that.

She might actually be able to get an in-home daycare for that price, depending on the area. When my older son was about a year old, I paid $20/day.
Yes, but around here, when they are looking on FB for a babysitter, they want someone in their own home.  They aren't interested in "sharing" (aka, paying a licensed home daycare).

Around here, that means that they are looking for a SAHM who will watch their kids in addition to her own.  The entire thing will be under the table.  And there will probably be at least three different people offering to do it.  But then again, $100/kid/week in this area is not *that* much lower than what a center will cost.

For the three months between when my wife went back to work and the start of summer, we paid a SAHM $25/day. Her kids were old enough to be in school, and she was bored. It worked out to be a great deal for us. It's certainly possible to get those kinds of prices.

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8147 on: June 24, 2019, 01:32:00 PM »
IDK... I still think this would be a hard sell for $10/day per kid, with one kid under 2 years old.   $30/day per kid was the going rate here 15 years ago, for kids over 30 months... with private homes taking them in at $20-$25/day.   per kid...

OTOH, $10/day per kid for before/ after school care can be had, fairly easily.  (older kids, part day)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 01:34:54 PM by Goldielocks »

Imma

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8148 on: July 06, 2019, 02:31:51 AM »
Someone I know has just started a Gofundme page for a city trip. She is recently engaged so this will be her last trip as a single person which is apparantly a big deal. Begging people to donate money towards your vacation is shameless enough but I know for a fact she already went on two trips this year. Begging people for money for your third holiday this year is so bad I can't even find the words.

SwordGuy

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8149 on: July 06, 2019, 08:19:37 AM »
I'm seeing more GoFundMe pleas for funds.

Several "So and so is broke, you should help them because they were so much fun in this club."

Yeah, I would have been more fun in that club, too, if I had spent all my money and time on it instead of providing for my (and my family's) future.   No thank you, you had good middle class jobs for way longer than we did.   We had to start a business to just to afford to participate in that club at all, why didn't you save?  If you had saved just the $1500 a year we made from that business for the 8 years we ran it and invested it 30 years ago, you would have solved your current funding problem and then some.

A tree fell and crushed both our cars.  GoFundMe!    You're grown-assed middle-aged adults, both of you have middle class jobs and you lived in government supplied housing as part of your job for years.   I'd loan a car for a few days till things settle down, but it's your own damn fault you never bothered to save enough to deal with this.  Where's your insurance?  That's what it's for.

No, if it was someone poor who asked for help, or someone just starting out, that would be different.   But some of these folks had decent jobs for 45 years and just plain chose not to save.

At least I don't have any FB friends who ask for funding to go on vacations.  Would be fun to comment on it, though.