Author Topic: Overheard on Facebook  (Read 4986074 times)

RetiredAt63

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8000 on: March 25, 2019, 06:18:22 PM »
Here the tax is only on prepared food, not whole ingredients. [https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Other-languages/In-detail/Information-in-other-languages/GST-and-food-for-small-business/] So cocoa and sugar are tax-free, but chocolate carries the tax. Likewise, a whole chicken is tax-free, unless it's a cooked chicken.

The sales tax is 10% so it's easy to calculate. At the supermarket, everything carrying sales tax has an asterisk by it. Everything at a restaurant carries the tax, even if it normally wouldn't, like a plain bread roll. Since it's all whole food, everything at the greengrocer, fishmonger or butcher is tax-free.

This has the interesting effect of making a tax-free diet tend to be a healthier one, too.

Quote
Kyle - that's really simple. I like it. Would never fly in the USA however. Too logical. ;)

Now I'm super confused, as my state and several others I know of and live in don't tax grocery products like vegetables, meats, grains, flour, milk, eggs, etc. Pretty much any staple/unprocessed ingredients. Taxed foods are the processed pizzas/sodas/chips etc.

Or, having taxed items marked in a store is too logical? I don't think they're marked at any grocery store I've been to, but they are generally consistent.

Here groceries are not taxed, snack foods bought at a grocery store are taxed.  It isn't marked at the aisle, but the sales slip shows which items were taxed and which were not.  Basically anything seen as an essential of life is not taxed.

sliverstorm

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8001 on: April 01, 2019, 11:49:38 PM »
I didn't get past the $200/week for groceries for a family of 4.

Yeah, that seemed excessive too.

I'm dying to understand how $200/week for a family of 4 can be excessive. How can you possibly eat well (not just subsist on rice & dried beans) with $1.20/person/meal, for example? My family of 2 (although we eat 3 people's worth, tall and active) struggles to hit $200/week. Best I can figure, the only way you can do it is to eat more cheap grains & cheap fats. We eat a lot of produce; even in season & on sale, it's not very good in calories per dollar.

Edit: I guess worth noting we refuse to buy anything made with soy or corn syrup. Mostly we make everything at home, but this does occasionally drive us to more expensive products.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 11:59:19 PM by sliverstorm »

Imma

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8002 on: April 02, 2019, 12:13:02 AM »
In my experience eating healthy food is cheaper than unhealthy food. I'm not in the US so we can't really compare prices but some of the cheapest meals I make are fried rice with loads of vegetables and a vegan curry. I try to buy veggies from the ethnic grocery store or street market but even in regular stores seasonal vegetables Will be cheap.

Breakfast and lunch are pretty cheap if you bring them from home, so that means that you have a bit more to spend on dinner. I'm sure my overnight oats are less than 0,20/portion and I put lots of fancy ingredients in it. Basic oats would cost half, or less.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8003 on: April 02, 2019, 01:50:21 AM »
My partner and I spend approx $380 ($260USD) per week on food. I don't consider that excessive at all.  We try to eat relatively nutritious things and we have no time to cook; by the time we get home from work, have a walk, go to the gym/swim, and have a wind-down, we don't have the time or energy remaining. Everyone's lifestyle is different.

Groceries e.g. fruit and fresh veg and breakfast items $50/week
lunch 20/day * 7 = $140
dinner 27.5/day *7 = $190
Total $380


Kyle Schuant

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8004 on: April 02, 2019, 05:31:10 AM »
Wall of Shame and Comedy.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8005 on: April 02, 2019, 05:45:39 AM »
If that is in response to me, our food bill for the week is equivalent to one hour of work for me, so given that getting fresh food made/delivered saves me a lot more than 1 hour a week, I don't see how it is at all problematic.

Imma

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8006 on: April 02, 2019, 06:58:49 AM »
In the exceptional circumstances that you apparantly make $250/hour and the only way you can earn this money is by absolutely not preparing any kind of meal at all, this makes sense from a financial point of view.

It's still not mustachian as it's still wasteful spending. And spending $50 purely on breakfast items and fruit and veg to be eaten outside of meals is still spendypants. Many people manage to buy a whole week's worth of food for that. What do you eat for breakfast? Even the most fancy breakfast I can imagine doesn't cost much more than 1-2.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8007 on: April 02, 2019, 07:15:51 AM »
In the exceptional circumstances that you apparantly make $250/hour and the only way you can earn this money is by absolutely not preparing any kind of meal at all, this makes sense from a financial point of view.

It's still not mustachian as it's still wasteful spending. And spending $50 purely on breakfast items and fruit and veg to be eaten outside of meals is still spendypants. Many people manage to buy a whole week's worth of food for that. What do you eat for breakfast? Even the most fancy breakfast I can imagine doesn't cost much more than 1-2.

I obviously could find the 30 minutes a day (give or take) that it would take to cook, on average, and save 2/3 on the food bill. But I don't want to spend that extra 30 minutes per day - it's a matter of time and mental labour as well. I prefer to have fewer things on my plate so that I have more energy for work, which is mentally draining. My partner also works full-time (she's just started a new job so is taking it very seriously) plus has a side hustle which earns her decent income. When we get down-time, we prefer to do something like gym, pool or walking as we find it more relaxing than cooking.

Breakfast - fresh fruit, granola and nuts, and soy milk / or salmon & avocado on toast plus a simple salad. Usually something like that.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8008 on: April 02, 2019, 11:20:56 AM »
In the exceptional circumstances that you apparantly make $250/hour and the only way you can earn this money is by absolutely not preparing any kind of meal at all, this makes sense from a financial point of view.

It's still not mustachian as it's still wasteful spending. And spending $50 purely on breakfast items and fruit and veg to be eaten outside of meals is still spendypants. Many people manage to buy a whole week's worth of food for that. What do you eat for breakfast? Even the most fancy breakfast I can imagine doesn't cost much more than 1-2.

I obviously could find the 30 minutes a day (give or take) that it would take to cook, on average, and save 2/3 on the food bill. But I don't want to spend that extra 30 minutes per day - it's a matter of time and mental labour as well. I prefer to have fewer things on my plate so that I have more energy for work, which is mentally draining. My partner also works full-time (she's just started a new job so is taking it very seriously) plus has a side hustle which earns her decent income. When we get down-time, we prefer to do something like gym, pool or walking as we find it more relaxing than cooking.

Breakfast - fresh fruit, granola and nuts, and soy milk / or salmon & avocado on toast plus a simple salad. Usually something like that.

Yeah, it all really depends a lot on where you are in life and your goals.

I remember when my best friend years ago told me how she never had time to do laundry.  At the time, I was working FT, husband working FT, and we had an infant.  I kind of laughed.  Because I remembered!  She didn't have time for laundry because of work and fun.  She was working 50 hours a week, exercising daily (at least an hour, if not 1.5). Every day after work she was doing something fun or hanging out with her family (parents, nieces, brother, etc).

These days we meet once/ week at the gym and a lot of our convo is about how she can't do laundry!  But this time, it's because her POS washing machine errors out and it takes HOURS to get the thing to finish.

I used to eat out a LOT and spend $$ doing it too.  Before kids.  Now, man, it is SO MUCH EASIER to just cook stuff at home. Dragging two kids out is too painful.  But the time/ money calculations get a lot easier when you are cooking in bulk too.

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8009 on: April 02, 2019, 12:24:47 PM »
Tell your friend to try smaller loads.

RE eating out: YEP! We hardly ever go out these days and our little kid days are behind us. It used to seem like a treat to blow $45 on a meal for a family of four and have someone wait on us.

Now it just isn't fun the same way.

Takes alot of time and restaurants seem to be like airplanes these days - how many people can we stuff into a room?

Occasionally we pick out a fancy recipe and stop by the grocery on the way home for nice ingredients.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8010 on: April 02, 2019, 01:12:05 PM »
Takes alot of time and restaurants seem to be like airplanes these days - how many people can we stuff into a room?
Yes!  DW and I enjoy eating out, but we *don't* like it when we have to shout at each other in order to be heard across the table, which is depressingly common in the types of restaurants we typically visit.  It's exhausting, especially when "getting away from the noise at home" is a major reason to go on a date!

I have this dream of someday establishing a restaurant with a really classy atmosphere, but "normal person" food and prices.  So... soft lights, quiet classical music, lots of dark-stained wood, velvet, brass, and sound absorbing materials.  Toss in a menu from a casual dining restaurant of your choice (Friday's, Chilis, Texas Roadhouse, Red Robin, Chuy's...) and you have a recipe for a relaxing, pleasant, classy dining experience that isn't too hard on your wallet.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8011 on: April 02, 2019, 02:46:10 PM »
I didn't get past the $200/week for groceries for a family of 4.

Yeah, that seemed excessive too.

I'm dying to understand how $200/week for a family of 4 can be excessive. How can you possibly eat well (not just subsist on rice & dried beans) with $1.20/person/meal, for example? My family of 2 (although we eat 3 people's worth, tall and active) struggles to hit $200/week. Best I can figure, the only way you can do it is to eat more cheap grains & cheap fats. We eat a lot of produce; even in season & on sale, it's not very good in calories per dollar.

Edit: I guess worth noting we refuse to buy anything made with soy or corn syrup. Mostly we make everything at home, but this does occasionally drive us to more expensive products.

$200/week is not $1.20/person/meal. It's $2.38. $200/(4*3*7).

My family of 2 buys $60.85 worth of groceries per week. That's the average over seven year of tracking expenses. Last year was $60.39/week. I do not think we are particularly cheap in our grocery shopping (we are not subsisting on rice/beans). We buy what we want to eat.

If you double our expenses as an an estimate for 4 people then you get $121.70/week. Considering that 2 of the people in question are kids, yes, I think $200/week is excessive.

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8012 on: April 02, 2019, 03:28:08 PM »
If that is in response to me, our food bill for the week is equivalent to one hour of work for me, so given that getting fresh food made/delivered saves me a lot more than 1 hour a week, I don't see how it is at all problematic.
Your post defending a huge grocery spend (! It is huge, no doubt!)  as if it is "normal" is certainly out of context for the forum.   It would have been much less misleading as to your actual point to have said:

We spend a lot on food, but as I make a lot, it works out to only 2.5% of my take home, and I am well on track for FIRE in 5 years... it is all relative to income.. (or whatever).

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8013 on: April 02, 2019, 03:53:29 PM »
I didn't get past the $200/week for groceries for a family of 4.

Yeah, that seemed excessive too.

I'm dying to understand how $200/week for a family of 4 can be excessive. How can you possibly eat well (not just subsist on rice & dried beans) with $1.20/person/meal, for example? My family of 2 (although we eat 3 people's worth, tall and active) struggles to hit $200/week. Best I can figure, the only way you can do it is to eat more cheap grains & cheap fats. We eat a lot of produce; even in season & on sale, it's not very good in calories per dollar.

Edit: I guess worth noting we refuse to buy anything made with soy or corn syrup. Mostly we make everything at home, but this does occasionally drive us to more expensive products.

I used to work to reduce our grocery bill, and it was always at the $800 level, too.  I thought that was the norm.
Then I FIRED and had more time to really shop the ads, going to an out of the way store for bulk shopping 2-3 times a month, etc.   My grocery bill dropped by 35% or more, even with entertaining and being on a low carb type diet.

The past month, I picked up a part time contract that turned into full time (ugh) and I am overspending on groceries again.

I was shocked at how low my grocey bill became week in and week out when I had time to think about it.  The following were changes/ insights:

- Buy meat on sale / super low ad prices only.  Know what $/lb is your target.  Mine is $2/lb = buy.  >$3/lb = wait to buy.
- Eat more leftover roast / foods instead of buying deli meat for sandwiches
- Buy lots of milk.  Enjoy.  Make cheese and yogurt with your milk.
- eat a lot of eggs, enjoy nuts, value price cheese, etc.
- reduce fresh produce, except local in season plus 1-2 more items per week (it is very expensive here, especially from end of Jan to end of April).  Set a list of low cost produce foods that are a "yes" for lower costs like root veg, cabbage, onion, apples, bananas, sometimes oranges.   Use frozen more often.  Fresh produce is DAMN expensive here.  Ditto any juice sold ready to drink.  Flavoured yogurt.
- Do not buy something with a label or in a box.  Ever.. unless almost free..   (My bill is up a bit because I don't do this always ).
- Do not buy baked goods in store, other than the lower cost sliced bread. Happy baking means no corn syrup, too.
- Figure out price per meal size serving of your most common meals, and prioritize the ones that you like that are not as expensive.   Re-visit the recipes for the more expensive menus to see how you can update them.
- Make your own sauces and salad dressings, etc.  Use basic spices instead of sauce in a jar more of the time.


Read APowers' Journal tracking an entire year for a family of 4 on <$200/mo.   This helped me a lot.

ducky19

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8014 on: April 03, 2019, 09:51:17 AM »
Seen on a local "For Sale" site on FB:

"I was selling my iPhone X, this guy messaged us and told us he wanted it. We met him in a public place (Lowes parking lot in front of cameras). Him and his girlfriend seemed decent and when my fiance let him hold the phone to look at the scratch he handed it to his girlfriend and ran off with it. We called the police and they are involved. He stole it after us telling him we needed the money for our daughter that is due to be here in seven days."

Followed by a comment later about how they are:

"...two parents who have no income..."

I mean, I feel for you - to an extent. It always sucks to be taken advantage of. What bothered me more than the fact they should have known well enough to meet at the police station is the fact that here we have two parents, no income, a child on the way... and a fucking iPhone X??? Of course all of the posts are either talking about what they did wrong or how bad it sucks - nobody's talking about the fact that there's no conceivable reason why they should even be in possession of a $1000 phone in the first place! I so badly wanted to comment, but if the forums have taught me nothing else, it's to stay out of those conversations unless you're looking to get crucified. Still, SMH...

mm1970

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8015 on: April 03, 2019, 07:06:38 PM »
I didn't get past the $200/week for groceries for a family of 4.

Yeah, that seemed excessive too.

I'm dying to understand how $200/week for a family of 4 can be excessive. How can you possibly eat well (not just subsist on rice & dried beans) with $1.20/person/meal, for example? My family of 2 (although we eat 3 people's worth, tall and active) struggles to hit $200/week. Best I can figure, the only way you can do it is to eat more cheap grains & cheap fats. We eat a lot of produce; even in season & on sale, it's not very good in calories per dollar.

Edit: I guess worth noting we refuse to buy anything made with soy or corn syrup. Mostly we make everything at home, but this does occasionally drive us to more expensive products.
The thing is, it is going to depend a LOT on:
- where you live
- what you eat
- how you shop
- time

I spent years whittling my grocery bill down and down and down.  Down to a science!

It's definitely changed a lot.  Last year we came in at $150/week for 4.  And that was HARD, yo!  This year, I cannot even get it under $170/week.  And my kids get free lunch at school!  But mm1970, why is this?

1.  I live in California.  Food is more expensive here because of higher overhead and gas.
2.  I live in California.  I have access to year round fresh produce.  So yes, while I *could* shop for vegetables exclusively at Sprouts and the 99 cent store (and save BANK), I don't.  I prefer, honestly, to get my produce from the local farmers.  Which costs more.  And we eat a LOT of it.  Because we can.  My produce cost, per week, is about $65-70.  Just produce.
3.  I have two boys.  They are getting bigger.
4.  I like to eat fresh food.  And on top of that, I balance organic/ free range.   And packaging.  I pay a little extra to buy my rice and nuts from the bulk bins, because I can use my own containers and not generate more plastic.
5.  I can't tolerate wheat anymore.  Wheat products are cheap.
6.  I'm kind of over it.  When I was super duper saving money?  Yep, I bought cheaper veggies, I made my own bread.  I can't even eat bread, so I don't make it anymore.  I'm super tired of being the only person who figures out what the fuck to make for dinner too.  So, I buy some things that are just easier to prep because I don't do much of the weekday cooking any more.  I work late almost every day.


Threshkin

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8016 on: April 03, 2019, 07:33:16 PM »

<Snip>

The thing is, it is going to depend a LOT on:
- where you live
- what you eat
- how you shop
- time

I spent years whittling my grocery bill down and down and down.  Down to a science!

It's definitely changed a lot.  Last year we came in at $150/week for 4.  And that was HARD, yo!  This year, I cannot even get it under $170/week.  And my kids get free lunch at school!  But mm1970, why is this?

1.  I live in California.  Food is more expensive here because of higher overhead and gas.
2.  I live in California.  I have access to year round fresh produce.  So yes, while I *could* shop for vegetables exclusively at Sprouts and the 99 cent store (and save BANK), I don't.  I prefer, honestly, to get my produce from the local farmers.  Which costs more.  And we eat a LOT of it.  Because we can.  My produce cost, per week, is about $65-70.  Just produce.
3.  I have two boys.  They are getting bigger.
4.  I like to eat fresh food.  And on top of that, I balance organic/ free range.   And packaging.  I pay a little extra to buy my rice and nuts from the bulk bins, because I can use my own containers and not generate more plastic.
5.  I can't tolerate wheat anymore.  Wheat products are cheap.
6.  I'm kind of over it.  When I was super duper saving money?  Yep, I bought cheaper veggies, I made my own bread.  I can't even eat bread, so I don't make it anymore.  I'm super tired of being the only person who figures out what the fuck to make for dinner too.  So, I buy some things that are just easier to prep because I don't do much of the weekday cooking any more.  I work late almost every day.

Farmer's markets used to be where you could go to get fresh locally produced food cheaply because the farmer could sell direct and cut out the middle man.

Now that they are trendy the prices are higher than retail and much of the food sold is not local or even grown by the "farmer" selling it.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8017 on: April 03, 2019, 09:39:13 PM »

<Snip>

The thing is, it is going to depend a LOT on:
- where you live
- what you eat
- how you shop
- time

I spent years whittling my grocery bill down and down and down.  Down to a science!

It's definitely changed a lot.  Last year we came in at $150/week for 4.  And that was HARD, yo!  This year, I cannot even get it under $170/week.  And my kids get free lunch at school!  But mm1970, why is this?

1.  I live in California.  Food is more expensive here because of higher overhead and gas.
2.  I live in California.  I have access to year round fresh produce.  So yes, while I *could* shop for vegetables exclusively at Sprouts and the 99 cent store (and save BANK), I don't.  I prefer, honestly, to get my produce from the local farmers.  Which costs more.  And we eat a LOT of it.  Because we can.  My produce cost, per week, is about $65-70.  Just produce.
3.  I have two boys.  They are getting bigger.
4.  I like to eat fresh food.  And on top of that, I balance organic/ free range.   And packaging.  I pay a little extra to buy my rice and nuts from the bulk bins, because I can use my own containers and not generate more plastic.
5.  I can't tolerate wheat anymore.  Wheat products are cheap.
6.  I'm kind of over it.  When I was super duper saving money?  Yep, I bought cheaper veggies, I made my own bread.  I can't even eat bread, so I don't make it anymore.  I'm super tired of being the only person who figures out what the fuck to make for dinner too.  So, I buy some things that are just easier to prep because I don't do much of the weekday cooking any more.  I work late almost every day.

Farmer's markets used to be where you could go to get fresh locally produced food cheaply because the farmer could sell direct and cut out the middle man.

Now that they are trendy the prices are higher than retail and much of the food sold is not local or even grown by the "farmer" selling it.

Bulk bins used to be where you could get food more cheaply because the vendor and supplier didn't have to pay for packaging or multiple layers of handling.

Fae

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8018 on: April 04, 2019, 05:32:08 AM »
Seen on a local "For Sale" site on FB:

"I was selling my iPhone X, this guy messaged us and told us he wanted it. We met him in a public place (Lowes parking lot in front of cameras). Him and his girlfriend seemed decent and when my fiance let him hold the phone to look at the scratch he handed it to his girlfriend and ran off with it. We called the police and they are involved. He stole it after us telling him we needed the money for our daughter that is due to be here in seven days."

Followed by a comment later about how they are:

"...two parents who have no income..."

I mean, I feel for you - to an extent. It always sucks to be taken advantage of. What bothered me more than the fact they should have known well enough to meet at the police station is the fact that here we have two parents, no income, a child on the way... and a fucking iPhone X??? Of course all of the posts are either talking about what they did wrong or how bad it sucks - nobody's talking about the fact that there's no conceivable reason why they should even be in possession of a $1000 phone in the first place! I so badly wanted to comment, but if the forums have taught me nothing else, it's to stay out of those conversations unless you're looking to get crucified. Still, SMH...

Did you ever consider that the phone was bought when they DID have income? I mean, yeah, nobody should have one of those stupid things but I find it way more likely that they went "oh hey we have money we can buy cool (stupid) thing that we want (like most consumer suckas) -> uh oh, now we've lost our job time to sell expensive (unnecessary) thing that we own. Then that they went oh hey we have no money let's go buy cool (stupid) thing that we want -> uh oh we finally realized we have no money time to sell expensive (unnecessary) thing that we own. In my experience, people who buy expensive things when they have no money will do just about anything to keep from selling whatever it is and very seldom realize that they should sell the thing.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8019 on: April 04, 2019, 07:20:29 AM »
The iPhone X only came out a few years ago so anyone who can go from "being able to afford an iPhone X" to "having nil money and also having a kid" within the space of a couple of years is either very bad with money, or very very unlucky. Like, house destroyed by a tornado unlucky (and no home insurance unlucky).

I don't agree with the "no one should have an iPhone" crowd. If someone is earning a high income and can write off the iPhone as a business expense, it may well make mustachian sense to get one.

Fae

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8020 on: April 04, 2019, 07:43:08 AM »
The iPhone X only came out a few years ago so anyone who can go from "being able to afford an iPhone X" to "having nil money and also having a kid" within the space of a couple of years is either very bad with money, or very very unlucky. Like, house destroyed by a tornado unlucky (and no home insurance unlucky).

I don't agree with the "no one should have an iPhone" crowd. If someone is earning a high income and can write off the iPhone as a business expense, it may well make mustachian sense to get one.

Having never seen the original facebook posts I don't know if the Iphone X owners were complaining about having no money, but the poster on this site said they had no money COMING in, not that they had NO money, which is two different situations.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8021 on: April 04, 2019, 07:58:58 AM »
I assume if you resort to pawning electronics then you have no money (ie no savings), since it would otherwise be much more sensible to rely on your savings.

ducky19

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8022 on: April 04, 2019, 08:21:33 AM »
The iPhone X only came out a few years ago so anyone who can go from "being able to afford an iPhone X" to "having nil money and also having a kid" within the space of a couple of years is either very bad with money, or very very unlucky. Like, house destroyed by a tornado unlucky (and no home insurance unlucky).

I don't agree with the "no one should have an iPhone" crowd. If someone is earning a high income and can write off the iPhone as a business expense, it may well make mustachian sense to get one.

Having never seen the original facebook posts I don't know if the Iphone X owners were complaining about having no money, but the poster on this site said they had no money COMING in, not that they had NO money, which is two different situations.

Based on the other comments being made by the couple selling the phone, they did not have money in addition to having no income. A quick look at their public profile confirms they have been in that situation for some time. I'm not saying that no one ever should own an iPhone X, only that if you're obviously struggling to make ends meet - and have been for some time - there's no excuse for owning one. Apologies for not sharing the full context of the post.

Fae

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8023 on: April 04, 2019, 08:44:04 AM »
Based on the other comments being made by the couple selling the phone, they did not have money in addition to having no income. A quick look at their public profile confirms they have been in that situation for some time. I'm not saying that no one ever should own an iPhone X, only that if you're obviously struggling to make ends meet - and have been for some time - there's no excuse for owning one. Apologies for not sharing the full context of the post.
Well, they were trying to sell it. :)

I assume if you resort to pawning electronics then you have no money (ie no savings), since it would otherwise be much more sensible to rely on your savings.

While ducky19's update shows that in this case the couple actually doesn't have any money. I'm going to push back on your comment because if someone needs to rely on their savings for an indeterminate amount of time (i.e. job loss, etc) it is very sensible to maximize that by any means, including selling off expensive electronics especially if you can get a much cheaper replacement.

sliverstorm

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8024 on: April 04, 2019, 01:24:23 PM »
mm1970, your experience more closely matches mine, I think. I don't worry about organic too much but I buy whole wheat, I look for pasture-raised eggs & grassfed dairy (dramatically changes their nutrition profile, for the better. Pasture-raised eggs have literally 2x many of the beneficial nutrients). None of those things are as cheap as the bottom shelf choice.

The other night I was thinking about this, and the people who explain they eat like kings with four people and $100/week. I had made pasta with a roasted tomato sauce. 2lbs of tomatoes, $2/lb. 1lb of whole wheat pasta, maybe $2/lb. 2 shallots, $0.50ea. Real parmesean, olive oil, spices, and some balsamic. Grow the basil myself. It's delicious, homemade, reasonably healthy. It also probably cost $8-10, and two people eat it in one sitting. It could be done cheaper but mostly only by compromising on quality or only making it in July when tomatoes are at their cheapest.

I'm going to pursue CSA's this year. Might be my saving grace.

Farmer's markets used to be where you could go to get fresh locally produced food cheaply because the farmer could sell direct and cut out the middle man.

Now that they are trendy the prices are higher than retail and much of the food sold is not local or even grown by the "farmer" selling it.

This has been my observation as well, most of the goods are not made by the sellers and the prices aren't awesome.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 01:32:04 PM by sliverstorm »

habanero

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8025 on: April 04, 2019, 01:43:29 PM »
The other night I was thinking about this, and the people who explain they eat like kings with four people and $100/week. I had made pasta with a roasted tomato sauce. 2lbs of tomatoes, $2/lb. 1lb of whole wheat pasta, maybe $2/lb. 2 shallots, $0.50ea. Real parmesean, olive oil, spices, and some balsamic. Grow the basil myself. It's delicious, homemade, reasonably healthy. It also probably cost $8-10, and two people eat it in one sitting. It could be done cheaper but mostly only by compromising on quality or only making it in July when tomatoes are at their cheapest.

If you are making a veggie pasta dish and spend 4-5 bucks pr. capita its rather expensive. You measurements are also off the charts - you dont use 2lb (about 1kg) of tomatoes for 2 persons, nor 1lb of pasta.  I eat extremely well in one of the most expensive countries in the world and I dont think I even could manage to spend 8-10 bucks on a veggie pasta dish for 2 adults even if I tried (truffles excluded, of course). 


habanero

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8026 on: April 04, 2019, 01:46:23 PM »
The other night I was thinking about this, and the people who explain they eat like kings with four people and $100/week. I had made pasta with a roasted tomato sauce. 2lbs of tomatoes, $2/lb. 1lb of whole wheat pasta, maybe $2/lb. 2 shallots, $0.50ea. Real parmesean, olive oil, spices, and some balsamic. Grow the basil myself. It's delicious, homemade, reasonably healthy. It also probably cost $8-10, and two people eat it in one sitting. It could be done cheaper but mostly only by compromising on quality or only making it in July when tomatoes are at their cheapest.

If you are making a veggie pasta dish and spend 4-5 bucks pr. capita its rather expensive. You measurements are also off the charts - you dont use 2lb (about 1kg) of tomatoes for 2 persons, nor 1lb of pasta.  I eat extremely well in one of the most expensive countries in the world and I dont think I even could manage to spend 8-10 bucks on a veggie pasta dish for 2 adults even if I tried (truffles excluded, of course).

If you want fancy pasta, get flour and eggs (or water if cutting costs) and a pasta machine. Fancy store-bought pasta doesn't make very much sense - its one of the simplest products there is. The ingredients cost next to nothing.

Same goes for bread. One can easily bake artisan sourdough bread at home at 1/10 of the cost in the store. Flour is cheap, sourdough is free (albeit a tiny maintance cost as you have to feed it every 3 weeks or so). Its nothing bout flour, salt and water and time. Nothing fancy. Key ingredient is time, which is free.
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« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 01:49:36 PM by habaneroNorway »

Kitsune

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8027 on: April 04, 2019, 01:58:46 PM »
SNIP ... only making it in July when tomatoes are at their cheapest.

I'm going to pursue CSA's this year. Might be my saving grace.

Yeah. That's the trick with tomato sauce. Out-of-season tomatoes are expensive, there's just no getting around it (mind: I love tomatoes in salad and sandwiches, and do buy them sparingly for that in winter!) But if you're gonna eat out of season... there is a cost. (also: we use 1lb of pasta for 2 adults and 2 kids. 1.5lb if we want 2 lunches for the adults the next day. You sure your measurements are on?)

With regards to cost - I think that might have a lot to do with location (obv, but...). We buy pasture-raised pork from the farm down the hill: 3.25CAD/lb (and oh gawd that bacon *swoon*). The farmer's market has maybe 10 stalls total and is actually staffed by the local farmers/beekeepers/this one group of early-20s hipsters selling sprouts (side-note: if you're willing to put in minor amounts of time and have a window, sprouts are DIRT CHEAP to grow and super healthy to eat), and the cost is reasonable. Beef from the farm is 5$/lb if in bulk - grass-fed, pasture-raised, etc. A colleague has chickens, I get free-range eggs for 4$CAD/dozen (grocery store is 1$ cheaper for conventional eggs). I'm assuming no one in LA is getting those kinds of prices or has a decent actually-farmer farmer's market! That said, when I lived in Montreal: A 30$ CSA basket provided ample veggies for a mostly-vegetarian household of 2, so that's definitely an option - but again, you're getting what's in season, period.

But, y'know. Even without that kind of access, healthy eating on a budget is possible. I make a mindblowing whole wheat sourdough bread (15 mins hands-on effort over a 24h period), and 50% whole wheat flour and it is still light and fluffy bread - works out to 75c/loaf, because whole wheat flour is more expensive, but still not breaking the budget). Tuck these beans on top, maybe some salad or sprouts on the side... and it's a maybe-5$ dinner for 4: https://smittenkitchen.com/2019/04/cannellini-aglio-e-olio/ Per yesterday's example, and even the toddler chowed down. But yeah, if it's not in season, you pay. That's the balance for out-of-season: it's time/energy/transport.
 
ETA: for reference, according to my YNAB, we spend an average of 160CAD/week (about 120USD) on all in-home food (including alcohol - husband loves making cocktails, wine, coffee, tea, bulk meat - we set aside 90$/month on that and spend it all in the fall). I'm very much into cooking and cook fairly healthy - pasture-raised meats or otherwise vegetarian, good parmesan and olive oil, fresh herbs, whole wheat and whole grains when possible, etc. But also in-season, with access to direct-from-the-farm food. From experience, when we're tight, I can cut that down by about 100$ a month but then quality and interest goes down somewhat, and the savings aren't worth the loss of enjoyment if not necessary.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 02:06:40 PM by Kitsune »

sliverstorm

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8028 on: April 04, 2019, 04:13:30 PM »
You measurements are also off the charts - you dont use 2lb (about 1kg) of tomatoes for 2 persons, nor 1lb of pasta.

(You sure your measurements are on?)

Yup. We usually buy dry pasta in 16oz packages. One package, one dinner. Usually no leftovers. I struggle to keep on weight sometimes.

I do bake my own bread, and it's completely ruined store bought for me. Usually around a buck a loaf, cheap flour is about 0.$50/lb and nice flour (including whole wheat) is about $1.00/lb. They usually last a day.

I envy your access, those prices you quote on meat, eggs, and so forth are pretty good. Not sure if there's anything similar near me.

It does seem pretty clear we eat a lot. A loaf of bread, a can of beans, and some artichoke would be a really light dinner for two of us, not a filling dinner for 4. We'd be back in the kitchen raiding the fruit bowl in about an hour.

If you want fancy pasta, get flour and eggs (or water if cutting costs) and a pasta machine. Fancy store-bought pasta doesn't make very much sense - its one of the simplest products there is. The ingredients cost next to nothing.

I wouldn't call the pasta we get fancy, but that's a good idea. I'll look at how the cost would work out. Thanks.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 04:43:17 PM by sliverstorm »

Kitsune

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8029 on: April 04, 2019, 04:45:24 PM »
(You sure your measurements are on?)

Yup. We usually buy dry pasta in 16oz packages. One package, one dinner. Usually no leftovers. I struggle to keep on weight sometimes.

I do bake my own bread, and it's completely ruined store bought for me. Usually around a buck a loaf, cheap flour is about 0.$50/lb and nice flour (including whole wheat) is about $1.00/lb. They usually last a day.

I envy your access, those prices you quote on meat, eggs, and so forth are pretty good. Not sure if there's anything similar near me.

It does seem pretty clear we eat a lot. A loaf of bread, a can of beans, and some artichoke would be a pretty light dinner for two of us, not a filling dinner for 4.

16oz of pasta leaves leftovers (looking at tonight's dinner) so... yeah, some of that might be quantity. For the beans: I had doubled that recipe. :)

Yeah... access definitely can determine overall spending. But to be clear: I live rural with VERY few grocery options within 50km, and the one grocery store is literally 40% more than the city store (and it's a chain, not a local small place where I could at least say I was supporting local commerce). I cobbled together a network of access to good food, but it wasn't easy. (Also, Quebec milk = 6.80/gallon, by law. And I have small children). So: we all have our limitations re: access. Sometimes the solution is spending more money (no shame! If it works and you have it...), but sometimes it's finding alternative options that are outside the box.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 04:47:20 PM by Kitsune »

habanero

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8030 on: April 05, 2019, 12:18:32 AM »
Eating (very) well on a (relatively) modest budget is, like most other things in life a skill that needs to be learnt. It involves cooking skills, shopping skills and planning skills. Knowing what is worth paying a premium for and what is not. Knowing what to make and what to buy. Knowing when to buy what (i.e. when sth is in season).

As everyone has to eat several times every day, this is one of the most profitable skills one can develop. Knowing how to do this can be repeated totally risk free every day, every month, every year for the rest of your life. In addition it probably has significant health benefits and general well-being.

When going to a fancy restaurant one is first and foremost paying for rent and salaries, not produce. If you go to a top notch restaurant (like Michelin-star quality) and total the cost of the ingredients used to make the 7-8-15-20 courses of the meal, it is likely to be far less than one would assume. The plates do however contain large ammounts of labour and skill.

I do by no means cook fancy restaurant food at home, but I do know how to cook reasonably well for an amateur and I do understand how to eat very well without paying a lot for it. In general, eating well does not require buying expensive products. The most humble ingredients can make up a great meal when done properly.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8031 on: April 05, 2019, 12:51:02 AM »
Eating (very) well on a (relatively) modest budget is, like most other things in life a skill that needs to be learnt. It involves cooking skills, shopping skills and planning skills. Knowing what is worth paying a premium for and what is not. Knowing what to make and what to buy. Knowing when to buy what (i.e. when sth is in season).

As everyone has to eat several times every day, this is one of the most profitable skills one can develop. Knowing how to do this can be repeated totally risk free every day, every month, every year for the rest of your life. In addition it probably has significant health benefits and general well-being.

When going to a fancy restaurant one is first and foremost paying for rent and salaries, not produce. If you go to a top notch restaurant (like Michelin-star quality) and total the cost of the ingredients used to make the 7-8-15-20 courses of the meal, it is likely to be far less than one would assume. The plates do however contain large ammounts of labour and skill.

I do by no means cook fancy restaurant food at home, but I do know how to cook reasonably well for an amateur and I do understand how to eat very well without paying a lot for it. In general, eating well does not require buying expensive products. The most humble ingredients can make up a great meal when done properly.

Generally I agree with you, but ratatouille is a peasant dish!

marty998

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8032 on: April 05, 2019, 04:52:22 AM »
In the exceptional circumstances that you apparantly make $250/hour and the only way you can earn this money is by absolutely not preparing any kind of meal at all, this makes sense from a financial point of view.

It's still not mustachian as it's still wasteful spending. And spending $50 purely on breakfast items and fruit and veg to be eaten outside of meals is still spendypants. Many people manage to buy a whole week's worth of food for that. What do you eat for breakfast? Even the most fancy breakfast I can imagine doesn't cost much more than 1-2.

I obviously could find the 30 minutes a day (give or take) that it would take to cook, on average, and save 2/3 on the food bill. But I don't want to spend that extra 30 minutes per day - it's a matter of time and mental labour as well. I prefer to have fewer things on my plate so that I have more energy for work, which is mentally draining. My partner also works full-time (she's just started a new job so is taking it very seriously) plus has a side hustle which earns her decent income. When we get down-time, we prefer to do something like gym, pool or walking as we find it more relaxing than cooking.

Breakfast - fresh fruit, granola and nuts, and soy milk / or salmon & avocado on toast plus a simple salad. Usually something like that.

Ahh see! It's not the millennial with a smashed avo problem after all. It's the old baby boomers who wag their fingers at us that secretly enjoy it haha.

I can get a decent dinner together in 30 minutes.

150g steak     ~$3.00, buy on special
Potatoes         ~50c /serve (can easily get lower but I don't buy in bulk)
Broccoli          ~$0.75 / serve (depends, can be variable, substitute with corn cob sometimes)

Seasoning and sauce is lower than a measurable cost. Chicken or beef stir fry with noodles and carrots is cheaper (I think I costed my stir fry dish here once before at $3.50 all up).

Leftovers can then be tomorrow's dinner or lunch, thus saving the cooking time.

partgypsy

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8033 on: April 05, 2019, 10:41:17 AM »
As my father explained, it is better to use canned (plum) tomatoes for a sauce, than use fresh tomatoes that are out of season. First of all they are out of season and are not properly ripened, 2nd they are expensive. And third in season you can grow your own tomatoes (as well as herbs to go with them).

I'm doing lent and it is crazy how cheap these kind of food choices are. I actually end up overbuying at the grocery.  I know I will go back to my regular eating habits once it is over, but if I ate like this year round and did not over-buy, I would save a lot of money. 

NorthernMonkey

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8034 on: April 05, 2019, 12:58:34 PM »
The iPhone X only came out a few years ago so anyone who can go from "being able to afford an iPhone X" to "having nil money and also having a kid" within the space of a couple of years is either very bad with money, or very very unlucky. Like, house destroyed by a tornado unlucky (and no home insurance unlucky).

I don't agree with the "no one should have an iPhone" crowd. If someone is earning a high income and can write off the iPhone as a business expense, it may well make mustachian sense to get one.

On anywhere other than MMM, someone having 6 months of living expenses in cash would be considered to be doing quite well financially.

If they lost their job 7 months ago, then they might be looking to sell their iPhone.

My iPhone XR is a business expense. I buy them new every 3-4 Years, then have a data only monthly plan.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8035 on: April 05, 2019, 01:23:32 PM »
mm1970, your experience more closely matches mine, I think. I don't worry about organic too much but I buy whole wheat, I look for pasture-raised eggs & grassfed dairy (dramatically changes their nutrition profile, for the better. Pasture-raised eggs have literally 2x many of the beneficial nutrients). None of those things are as cheap as the bottom shelf choice.

The other night I was thinking about this, and the people who explain they eat like kings with four people and $100/week. I had made pasta with a roasted tomato sauce. 2lbs of tomatoes, $2/lb. 1lb of whole wheat pasta, maybe $2/lb. 2 shallots, $0.50ea. Real parmesean, olive oil, spices, and some balsamic. Grow the basil myself. It's delicious, homemade, reasonably healthy. It also probably cost $8-10, and two people eat it in one sitting. It could be done cheaper but mostly only by compromising on quality or only making it in July when tomatoes are at their cheapest.

I'm going to pursue CSA's this year. Might be my saving grace.

Farmer's markets used to be where you could go to get fresh locally produced food cheaply because the farmer could sell direct and cut out the middle man.

Now that they are trendy the prices are higher than retail and much of the food sold is not local or even grown by the "farmer" selling it.

This has been my observation as well, most of the goods are not made by the sellers and the prices aren't awesome.

CSAs are great.  I found the quality to be much better, and prices to be better than the grocery store.

Our farmer's markets are decent - they come in at about the same as grocery store prices, but for much higher quality.  Not a lot of overpriced things.  But remember, you are trying to pay the farmer a living wage, and for me - that's in California that has been suffering from water woes for years.  It's just not going to be as cheap as buying produce from Mexico.

Bulk bins, for me, are cheaper than grocery store prices but not as good as buying a 10 lb bag of rice or beans at Costco.  So I've made that trade off.

Higher quality meats and dairy are worth a bit more to me.

I don't want to start the salmon debate again...but we do eat wild salmon occasionally, and it just isn't cheap.

For awhile, I had a source for bulk-bought beef and pork from local farmers.  Even then, buying a whole pig or half a cow, it came out to $8-12 per pound.   Prices vary a LOT.  While rural areas (I grew up in one) tend to have fewer grocery store options, they are more likely to have options for meat - my local area as a child had lots of people selling eggs, beef, pork, veggies, etc. - even BEFORE you add in the Amish.

I did spend years working on the grocery budget, but eventually my dietary needs changed, my schedule changed, and while I'm willing to shop at 5 different places to get what I need at decent prices, I'm really not willing to up that to 10.

Imma

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8036 on: April 05, 2019, 03:28:47 PM »
As my father explained, it is better to use canned (plum) tomatoes for a sauce, than use fresh tomatoes that are out of season. First of all they are out of season and are not properly ripened, 2nd they are expensive. And third in season you can grow your own tomatoes (as well as herbs to go with them).

I'm doing lent and it is crazy how cheap these kind of food choices are. I actually end up overbuying at the grocery.  I know I will go back to my regular eating habits once it is over, but if I ate like this year round and did not over-buy, I would save a lot of money.

I'm a big fan of canned pasta sauce as well. I try to can as much as possible during the season.

We had a great pasta / veggies dish the other night and it cost next to nothing. I use 75 gram of pasta per person (I can't even imagine eating half a pound of pasta each and we're big eaters) and we buy pasta from the wholesale store for like 8/5 kilo. Quality is pretty decent. A few onions (almost free) a bell pepper (I think around 3 for 5) a zucchini (0,80 / each) a can of tomato sauce and we had a lovely meal for a couple . The ethnic store or street market would have sold these veggies for even less but I didn't have the time to go there. I even found some Parmesan in the fridge to top it off.

sliverstorm

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8037 on: April 05, 2019, 04:49:35 PM »
I don't want to start the salmon debate again...but we do eat wild salmon occasionally, and it just isn't cheap.

I'm exploring sardines, anchovies, herring, etc as a substitute. Frozen sardines are like $2/lb, and they are just as good in terms of omega-3, low mercury, and so forth.

Their population levels are suffering, but the main reason is because we fish 10lbs of sardines, grind them up, feed them to salmon, and produce 3-5lb of salmon. (Or other livestock with even worse ratios).
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 04:52:47 PM by sliverstorm »

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8038 on: April 05, 2019, 05:54:16 PM »
I don't want to start the salmon debate again...but we do eat wild salmon occasionally, and it just isn't cheap.

I'm exploring sardines, anchovies, herring, etc as a substitute. Frozen sardines are like $2/lb, and they are just as good in terms of omega-3, low mercury, and so forth.

Their population levels are suffering, but the main reason is because we fish 10lbs of sardines, grind them up, feed them to salmon, and produce 3-5lb of salmon. (Or other livestock with even worse ratios).
Interesting!  This is a real debate out there.   I have visted the DFO (government) research areas that are used to control the industry and set policies.
 So  I have seen some weird things including genetically modified salmon that prove that this is likely a very bad idea in the ocean but landlocked pens might be ok...

Anyway...we have substantial strong, political debates about fish farms here, given the large wild caught industry, but this is the first I heard about salmon feed concerns.  So I looked it up.. for our local production area:
 
"Salmon farmers in B.C. are net producers of fish meaning that it takes less than 1kg of feeder fish to produce 1kg of edible salmon. "
  kg of feed to raise 1 kg of salmon (conversion ratio) is 1.2  versus 1.9 for chicken and 6+ for beef. 

Very interesting to look up, thanks for the idea.  This was my source (first hit, I did not try to do this scientifically)  http://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/growing-worlds-best-fish/


StockBeard

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8039 on: April 08, 2019, 10:34:33 PM »
I'm dying to understand how $200/week for a family of 4 can be excessive. How can you possibly eat well (not just subsist on rice & dried beans) with $1.20/person/meal, for example? My family of 2 (although we eat 3 people's worth, tall and active) struggles to hit $200/week.
When I lived in the US (Seattle), our weekly grocery bill was around $150 for 4 (about $35~$40/week/person). We then moved to Japan in 2017, are now a family of 5, and our weekly bill is now $200 for the 5 of us (so roughly $40/week/person, a bit more expensive than what we had in the US). Overall, that's a bit less than $2 per meal per person, but grownups are probably higher and the 3 kids probably lower than that average.

We have a very diverse diet and definitely not trying to eat only rice and dried beans (but rice is definitely a staple for my wife, ha). In the US, we were mindful of our grocery bill, but not to the point that it would drive us mad. There are a few things we did to cut our expenses but I'm probably going to state the obvious: the biggest one was probably to get the "member's card" at our usual grocery stores (QFC, Safeway,...). Those cards are free and pretty much give you a 5% to 10% discount on almost everything (or you can see it the other way around: if you don't have the card you accept to pay about 10% more than regular price). The second big decrease in our grocery spending was done by looking for loss leaders in the weekly prospectus you get in the mailbox. Unsurprisingly, fruits/vegetables are cheaper in season*, etc... and all of this usually reflects in the loss leaders.

It's worth mentioning that our kids are still young and don't eat like teenagers yet. There's also some economy of scale for a family of 5 (at least in the US, less true in Tokyo were everything is prepackaged for 1 or 2 people) that might be difficult to leverage for a household of 2 . Also, we avoid HFCS like you but have no particular issue with eating soy-based products. And I understand that WA does not have sales tax on most of the food we bought, which might be a factor as well on your end.

So, I'm not totally surprised you can't get below $200 for 2 depending on where you live and your eating habits, but my experience tells me that for $150 a week you can feed a family of 4 in one of the most expensive cities of the US, without even trying hard. That being said, I'm not shocked if a family of 4 says they spend $200 a week in groceries (before tax), in particular if they have 2 teenage kids and are not aggressively trying to save on their grocery bill (whether they should try to do that before complaining about taxes is another discussion?).

Just a data point :)


* Gah, I miss the "$1.99/lb strawberries" deals at Safeway. I swear, Strawberries in Tokyo are like $2 a piece.

Kitsune

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8040 on: April 09, 2019, 07:51:16 AM »
Yeah, we're off-topic, but I love food so I'm gonna keep running with it. :)

Gonna chime in and say, again, that quantity matters. @sliverstorm mentioned that a loaf of bread lasts a day for 2 people, which to me is mind-boggling - I make 2 loaves a week (whole wheat sourdough) and that seems to be PLENTY for a family of 4 (2 smaller children, though the toddler eats as much as I do, no teenagers - teenagers count as at least 2 adults, for meal-planning).

Cheaper meal examples (note: in CAD, so your 1.20 is 1.60 in my money!):
- Tonight, we are having a kalamata olive and herb sourdough foccacia (homemade, is rising and will get stuck in the oven when we get home: 1.50$ for ingredients, mostly because olives aren't cheap) and tomato and white bean soup (ingredients: 9$ for #10 can of san marzano tomatoes and dried white beans and a bit of cream, made with home-grown basil and chicken broth). Should be enough for dinner for 4 and lunches for 2 adults tomorrow, plus extra soup to stick in the freezer. Relatively healthy, and under 1.50/meal, once you account for the soup in the freezer for grab-and-go lunches.
- Last night, we had eggs (2 eggs for me, 1 for the preschooler, 2 for the toddler, and 3 for the husband - 2.30$), with sliced carrots, cucumbers, and tomatoes (3$), and about 1/3 of a loaf of whole-wheat bread (so, 2 slices per adult and 1-1.5 per kid - roughly 50 cents in ingredients cost). Again - under 1.50/person. (Caveat - this is my 'oh god I'm exhausted I can't deal with cooking and the kids are hangry' kind of meal)
- Last weekend, we made a merguez and bean tagine with dates and preserved lemons, on rice, with slivered fennel salad (the kids, side-note, downed that like no tomorrow). 11$ ingredients cost, fed us with an extra lunch for the adults - 1.80/portion.

... I would definitely not call this subsisting. I'm personally quite, QUITE happy with these menus.


remizidae

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8041 on: April 09, 2019, 09:02:57 PM »
- Last night, we had eggs (2 eggs for me, 1 for the preschooler, 2 for the toddler, and 3 for the husband - 2.30$), with sliced carrots, cucumbers, and tomatoes (3$), and about 1/3 of a loaf of whole-wheat bread (so, 2 slices per adult and 1-1.5 per kid - roughly 50 cents in ingredients cost).

See, most people would not consider 2 eggs, 2 slices of bread and some raw vegetables to be dinner. That's maybe 400 calories. Which just goes to illustrate why we keep having these arguments: there is no one correct amount to spend on food. We all live in different places and have different preferences and different caloric needs. A small, sedentary woman might subsist on 1200 calories a day; an active, medium-sized woman like me might need twice that; a large, active man 3 or 4 times that. Really, spending per 1000 calories would be a better metric than spending per person.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8042 on: April 09, 2019, 11:20:51 PM »
Not really, since then a person who lived on bags of raw sugar would be considered good and sensible. Most vegetables, for example, are stupidly low on calories - but we need their nutrients.

marty998

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8043 on: April 10, 2019, 01:59:37 AM »
Not really, since then a person who lived on bags of raw sugar would be considered good and sensible. Most vegetables, for example, are stupidly low on calories - but we need their nutrients.

As are lettuce leaves - 100 grams are just 15 calories apparently.


Kitsune

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8044 on: April 10, 2019, 06:00:30 AM »
- Last night, we had eggs (2 eggs for me, 1 for the preschooler, 2 for the toddler, and 3 for the husband - 2.30$), with sliced carrots, cucumbers, and tomatoes (3$), and about 1/3 of a loaf of whole-wheat bread (so, 2 slices per adult and 1-1.5 per kid - roughly 50 cents in ingredients cost).

See, most people would not consider 2 eggs, 2 slices of bread and some raw vegetables to be dinner. That's maybe 400 calories. Which just goes to illustrate why we keep having these arguments: there is no one correct amount to spend on food. We all live in different places and have different preferences and different caloric needs. A small, sedentary woman might subsist on 1200 calories a day; an active, medium-sized woman like me might need twice that; a large, active man 3 or 4 times that. Really, spending per 1000 calories would be a better metric than spending per person.

Exactly! And for me - eating more than that for dinner makes me nauseous, and 400cal is absolutely fine for dinner after a sedentary office day. So, yes. Quantity. It matters, a lot.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8045 on: April 10, 2019, 02:00:38 PM »
- Last night, we had eggs (2 eggs for me, 1 for the preschooler, 2 for the toddler, and 3 for the husband - 2.30$), with sliced carrots, cucumbers, and tomatoes (3$), and about 1/3 of a loaf of whole-wheat bread (so, 2 slices per adult and 1-1.5 per kid - roughly 50 cents in ingredients cost).

See, most people would not consider 2 eggs, 2 slices of bread and some raw vegetables to be dinner. That's maybe 400 calories. Which just goes to illustrate why we keep having these arguments: there is no one correct amount to spend on food. We all live in different places and have different preferences and different caloric needs. A small, sedentary woman might subsist on 1200 calories a day; an active, medium-sized woman like me might need twice that; a large, active man 3 or 4 times that. Really, spending per 1000 calories would be a better metric than spending per person.
I would consider that to be dinner.  And I'm pretty active.

But I eat breakfast, lunch, and 2 snacks also. I haven't calculated by calorie intake in awhile, but it's probably easily over 2000 calories.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8046 on: April 10, 2019, 04:41:43 PM »

See, most people would not consider 2 eggs, 2 slices of bread and some raw vegetables to be dinner. That's maybe 400 calories.

So add a few shots of olive oil.  That's a healthy oil, right?

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8047 on: April 10, 2019, 06:11:50 PM »
- Last night, we had eggs (2 eggs for me, 1 for the preschooler, 2 for the toddler, and 3 for the husband - 2.30$), with sliced carrots, cucumbers, and tomatoes (3$), and about 1/3 of a loaf of whole-wheat bread (so, 2 slices per adult and 1-1.5 per kid - roughly 50 cents in ingredients cost).

See, most people would not consider 2 eggs, 2 slices of bread and some raw vegetables to be dinner. That's maybe 400 calories. Which just goes to illustrate why we keep having these arguments: there is no one correct amount to spend on food. We all live in different places and have different preferences and different caloric needs. A small, sedentary woman might subsist on 1200 calories a day; an active, medium-sized woman like me might need twice that; a large, active man 3 or 4 times that. Really, spending per 1000 calories would be a better metric than spending per person.

I would consider that dinner. The other half absolutely would not!

OtherJen

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8048 on: April 10, 2019, 06:17:39 PM »
- Last night, we had eggs (2 eggs for me, 1 for the preschooler, 2 for the toddler, and 3 for the husband - 2.30$), with sliced carrots, cucumbers, and tomatoes (3$), and about 1/3 of a loaf of whole-wheat bread (so, 2 slices per adult and 1-1.5 per kid - roughly 50 cents in ingredients cost).

See, most people would not consider 2 eggs, 2 slices of bread and some raw vegetables to be dinner. That's maybe 400 calories. Which just goes to illustrate why we keep having these arguments: there is no one correct amount to spend on food. We all live in different places and have different preferences and different caloric needs. A small, sedentary woman might subsist on 1200 calories a day; an active, medium-sized woman like me might need twice that; a large, active man 3 or 4 times that. Really, spending per 1000 calories would be a better metric than spending per person.

I would consider that dinner. The other half absolutely would not!

I would absolutely consider that dinner. Husband would probably want to add a couple pieces of bacon or slices of ham.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #8049 on: April 11, 2019, 01:28:07 PM »
My teeange son made that dinner last night... as a snack 2 hours after eating a nice large family dinner of whole fish, rice, three types of vegetables, and ice cream.