Author Topic: Overheard on Facebook  (Read 4863998 times)

former player

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5600 on: December 13, 2016, 01:26:57 AM »
The point for me is that the anti-mustachian mocking is done with anonymised targets.  Those "memes" are bullying identifiable people.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5601 on: December 13, 2016, 01:37:16 AM »
The point for me is that the anti-mustachian mocking is done with anonymised targets.  Those "memes" are bullying identifiable people.

I think everyone here agrees that those "memes" are stupid.  Chris22 seemed to be making a joke based on the fact that his name happens to be mentioned in the image, and apparently broke the "no calling people fat" rule.  But calling an anonymous fat person fat, without them being a reader of the forum, is not bullying, and although the person is identifiable in the broadest sense, they are not actually identified (nor can they be easily identified).

Anyways, here's a real meme:


former player

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5602 on: December 13, 2016, 01:43:31 AM »
The point for me is that the anti-mustachian mocking is done with anonymised targets.  Those "memes" are bullying identifiable people.

I think everyone here agrees that those "memes" are stupid.  Chris22 seemed to be making a joke based on the fact that his name happens to be mentioned in the image, and apparently broke the "no calling people fat" rule.  But calling an anonymous fat person fat, without them being a reader of the forum, is not bullying, and although the person is identifiable in the broadest sense, they are not actually identified (nor can they be easily identified).

Anyways, here's a real meme:


In the context, having your picture shared around the internet without your permission for other people to laugh at or be cruel about (and those memes have no other purpose than to put down the person pictured, presumably for the purpose of making the sender and recipient feel superior) is bullying.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5603 on: December 13, 2016, 01:44:23 AM »
Here's a spicy new financial meme, hot off the presses:


LeRainDrop

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5604 on: December 13, 2016, 03:04:05 AM »
Dragoncar, is being able to call someone, who most likely did not consent to having her image used in this manner, a "fat chick" as important to you at it seems?  Can you not see how mean that is?  That joking about it sends a message of intolerance/ridicule to many other members of this forum?  And that it does not foster the community environment that the forum rules contemplate?

Primm

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5605 on: December 13, 2016, 04:31:55 AM »

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5606 on: December 13, 2016, 04:46:07 AM »
Dragoncar, is being able to call someone, who most likely did not consent to having her image used in this manner, a "fat chick" as important to you at it seems?  Can you not see how mean that is?  That joking about it sends a message of intolerance/ridicule to many other members of this forum?  And that it does not foster the community environment that the forum rules contemplate?

It's important to me to be able to use benign descriptions without worrying about being banned, so I want to get these things straight.  I've never thought "fat chick" would be any more intolerant than "black dude," "short kid," or any other purely descriptive language.  Although I wasn't the one who used the phrase originally, I'm genuinely confused how it could get multiple reports and I'll certainly reconsider using it in the future.

I think there's a big difference between ridiculing someone and simply describing them as fat.  I mean, it's hardly a clinical term like obese, but neither is it necessarily derogatory. 

I'm still waiting on an answer as to whether "overeating person" would have been OK?  Or is it just not OK to talk about weight at all?  Are we living in a post-weight world?

I am sympathetic that perhaps this person would wander into the forum and feel bad that Chris called her a fat chick, but if I saw my photo on the web and described as a fat dude, I wouldn't cry about it.  It might motivate me to lose some weight.  However, I find it highly unlikely that the photo subject would find this image here.  Not more likely than anyone else mentioned in this thread who were called "stupid," "idiot" and so on.  How do you feel about posts describing identifiable people with a linked GoFundMe as "pig humans"?

former player

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5607 on: December 13, 2016, 05:55:53 AM »
Dragoncar, it's the context which makes it derogatory.

To a certain extent I agree with you that "fat" as a descriptor is different from other terms which can be used to hurt and discriminate, such as those relating to colour, sex/gender, age, and so on.  But it is relatively recently in human society, and still not universal, that sexual preference is protected by being put in an "inherent" category rather than the "personal choice" category, and evidence is now available that fat is less of a choice and more inherent than might have been thought, although obviously behavioural choices do play into it as well as nature, nuture, culture and biology.   That means that I'm not sure I could make the judgement for any single individual where the point is that I would feel comfortable assigning personal blame for weight issues.  And participating in bullying another person, whether or not I know them in person or on line, and whether or not I know the extent to which it might have a personal effect on that person, is something with which I would be very uncomfortable.


BTDretire

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5608 on: December 13, 2016, 07:18:36 AM »
Political correctness has run amok.

former player

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5609 on: December 13, 2016, 07:30:10 AM »
Political correctness has run amok.
Unfortunately, good manners haven't.

onlykelsey

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5610 on: December 13, 2016, 07:32:28 AM »
Political correctness has run amok.
Unfortunately, good manners haven't.

Right? I don't see how refraining from calling someone a "fat chick" has anything to do with political correctness.  I think I learned that in preschool. 

swick

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5611 on: December 13, 2016, 08:04:22 AM »
Dragoncar, is being able to call someone, who most likely did not consent to having her image used in this manner, a "fat chick" as important to you at it seems?  Can you not see how mean that is?  That joking about it sends a message of intolerance/ridicule to many other members of this forum?  And that it does not foster the community environment that the forum rules contemplate?

It's important to me to be able to use benign descriptions without worrying about being banned, so I want to get these things straight.  I've never thought "fat chick" would be any more intolerant than "black dude," "short kid," or any other purely descriptive language.  Although I wasn't the one who used the phrase originally, I'm genuinely confused how it could get multiple reports and I'll certainly reconsider using it in the future.

DragonCar, Chris22 wasn't temporarily banned because he used "benign descriptors" He has been warned previously in several threads about his tone, or making personal attacks. He has been temporarily banned previously after multiple warnings.

Usually, all it takes is a quick strike through or a gentle reminder to people when they break the rules. Sometimes people get excited, sometimes are having a bad day or sometimes you fail convey the right tone on the internets. You are not going to be banned for that. If you repeatedly break the rules and are argumentative then you will.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5612 on: December 13, 2016, 08:16:43 AM »
I'm with dragoncar.  I definitely think there are some over-sensitive members on this forum.

Are y'all seriously explaining what memes are to someone with 5000+ posts whose avatar is a dragon having sex with a car?

Haha.


rachellynn99

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5613 on: December 13, 2016, 08:22:20 AM »
I'm always amazed on blackfriday and the posts I see. Yes, the spending for sure as some of my fb friends wil proudly show mounds and mounds of bags that they got "cheap" in the back of their suburban, but just the craziness of lines, rude people, parking issues etc. that I see posted are enough to keep me at home.

JAYSLOL

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5614 on: December 13, 2016, 08:35:36 AM »
I guess it's high time i go on Facebook and find something to rescue this thread from all this crap...

Ok, found a friend that posted a meme with a woman face palming and captioned "when you want to buy all your family and friends gifts, but you only have like $3"

Unfortunately (fortunately, actually) that's the best i can do, everyone on my Facebook is keeping their anti-mustachian ways at bay for the moment


dandarc

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5615 on: December 13, 2016, 09:40:37 AM »
How about that secret sister gift exchange thing going around on facebook. You post on your wall and you only have to send 1 item (I've seen books and bottles of wine) and in return you will get between 6 and 36 items in return.

A friend posted it and I asked how if every person only sends 1 gift out, you get more back than the number of people participating. She never responded, but the post was deleted.
Secret Santa Pyramid Scheme.  Key is to get in early.

ysette9

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5616 on: December 13, 2016, 09:41:33 AM »
I want to add a big thank you to the moderators for the tough job you do balancing the freedom of ideas around here with keeping this a respectful and safe space online. There is so much ugliness out there and it means a lot to me that I can come here for intelligent exchange of ideas. Keeping that expectation of mutual respect is hugely important to the value this community brings to me.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5617 on: December 13, 2016, 10:00:12 AM »
How about that secret sister gift exchange thing going around on facebook. You post on your wall and you only have to send 1 item (I've seen books and bottles of wine) and in return you will get between 6 and 36 items in return.

A friend posted it and I asked how if every person only sends 1 gift out, you get more back than the number of people participating. She never responded, but the post was deleted.
Secret Santa Pyramid Scheme.  Key is to get in early.

Yeah I participated in one, it was for books. I didn't really care to advertise it, but don't mind spending $8 to send a great book to someone I know every once in a while.

Lunasol

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5618 on: December 13, 2016, 10:28:26 AM »
Some people have claimed not to know what memes are, so in defense of nice and fun memes, some are simply light-hearted phrases, example:

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5619 on: December 13, 2016, 10:42:25 AM »
OMG I can't believe you would poke fun at Steve Harvey's dyslexia like that. 

JAYSLOL

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5620 on: December 13, 2016, 11:00:45 AM »
I want to add a big thank you to the moderators for the tough job you do balancing the freedom of ideas around here with keeping this a respectful and safe space online. There is so much ugliness out there and it means a lot to me that I can come here for intelligent exchange of ideas. Keeping that expectation of mutual respect is hugely important to the value this community brings to me.

+1

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5621 on: December 13, 2016, 11:04:22 AM »
OMG I can't believe you would poke fun at Steve Harvey's dyslexia like that.

shh bby is ok

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5622 on: December 13, 2016, 12:44:58 PM »
The point for me is that the anti-mustachian mocking is done with anonymised targets.  Those "memes" are bullying identifiable people.

I think everyone here agrees that those "memes" are stupid.  Chris22 seemed to be making a joke based on the fact that his name happens to be mentioned in the image, and apparently broke the "no calling people fat" rule.  But calling an anonymous fat person fat, without them being a reader of the forum, is not bullying, and although the person is identifiable in the broadest sense, they are not actually identified (nor can they be easily identified).

Anyways, here's a real meme:



Quote
You’ve probably seen what might be one of the lamest, most annoying crazes on Facebook already.

A confronting image of someone who’s disfigured or overweight is posted with text overlaid asking you to tag someone.

Hilarious right?

While getting tagged in one of these may be annoying – and probably a good indicator that you should cull your friends list – spare a thought for those actually featured in the memes.

One of those people, Lizzie Valasquez, had fired back after coming across a meme featuring her image.

“You might find it hilarious but the human in the photo is probably feeling the exact opposite,” she wrote in a post which has since gone viral.
http://www.sbs.com.au/topics/life/health/article/2016/12/13/when-meme-fires-back-i-wouldnt-wish-it-my-worst-enemy

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5623 on: December 13, 2016, 01:01:31 PM »
That link has been previously posted and the situation is quite different in character

JLee

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5624 on: December 13, 2016, 01:07:26 PM »
Not about money, but those degrading "tag someone" mêmes. I just gently called someone out for posting it on Facebook. I hate conflict, but I just couldn't ignore this one for some reason. So I am hiding out here and working my nerve up to check Facebook again... Or not for a while, because I don't actually have to. Shew.

I feel like I need a dozen cute kitten mêmes to clean my soul.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eyebleach/

:)

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5625 on: December 13, 2016, 01:58:49 PM »
How about that secret sister gift exchange thing going around on facebook. You post on your wall and you only have to send 1 item (I've seen books and bottles of wine) and in return you will get between 6 and 36 items in return.

A friend posted it and I asked how if every person only sends 1 gift out, you get more back than the number of people participating. She never responded, but the post was deleted.
Secret Santa Pyramid Scheme.  Key is to get in early.

Yeah I participated in one, it was for books. I didn't really care to advertise it, but don't mind spending $8 to send a great book to someone I know every once in a while.

I don't mind the idea of having gift exchanges or secret santas, its the breakdown in logic that claims that you will receive many times over what you gave that bugs me. Where are all these extra books coming from?

The government. They already print extra money when they need it; what's a few books?

nnls

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5626 on: December 13, 2016, 03:03:18 PM »
How about that secret sister gift exchange thing going around on facebook. You post on your wall and you only have to send 1 item (I've seen books and bottles of wine) and in return you will get between 6 and 36 items in return.

A friend posted it and I asked how if every person only sends 1 gift out, you get more back than the number of people participating. She never responded, but the post was deleted.
Secret Santa Pyramid Scheme.  Key is to get in early.

Yeah I participated in one, it was for books. I didn't really care to advertise it, but don't mind spending $8 to send a great book to someone I know every once in a while.

I don't mind the idea of having gift exchanges or secret santas, its the breakdown in logic that claims that you will receive many times over what you gave that bugs me. Where are all these extra books coming from?

from my understanding is the person you send your book to is above you, you then send your address to 6 people who then pass it on to another 6 each thus you get 36?

If that makes sense

renata ricotta

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5627 on: December 13, 2016, 03:20:11 PM »
Quote
from my understanding is the person you send your book to is above you, you then send your address to 6 people who then pass it on to another 6 each thus you get 36?

If that makes sense

Sure, the problem is that this, like all pyramid structures, it cannot go on forever with an infinite supply of people below you on the chain.  Not to mention if it's bounded by a date, like Christmas, people don't have time to send gifts up to the next people on the chain and also get their own gifts.  Realistically, I bet these things barely go a single generation of gifts, so most people send but do not receive.

http://www.snopes.com/secret-sisters-gift-exchange/ (note: the snopes article suggests they are all illegal, but I'm pretty sure it's only illegal when it goes through the federal mail).  When it's on facebook, it's just cringey/awkward that people fall for it.

nnls

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5628 on: December 13, 2016, 03:46:42 PM »
Quote
from my understanding is the person you send your book to is above you, you then send your address to 6 people who then pass it on to another 6 each thus you get 36?

If that makes sense

Sure, the problem is that this, like all pyramid structures, it cannot go on forever with an infinite supply of people below you on the chain.  Not to mention if it's bounded by a date, like Christmas, people don't have time to send gifts up to the next people on the chain and also get their own gifts.  Realistically, I bet these things barely go a single generation of gifts, so most people send but do not receive.

http://www.snopes.com/secret-sisters-gift-exchange/ (note: the snopes article suggests they are all illegal, but I'm pretty sure it's only illegal when it goes through the federal mail).  When it's on facebook, it's just cringey/awkward that people fall for it.

yes I assume most people don't follow through on the sending of books/wine ect. Most of the ones I have seen havent been bound by a date but either way I assume most people dont do it

BTDretire

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5629 on: December 14, 2016, 08:49:38 AM »
OMG I can't believe you would poke fun at Steve Harvey's dyslexia like that.
Yes, so sad how that has held him back.

JAYSLOL

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5630 on: December 14, 2016, 01:51:33 PM »
Finally saw something worth mentioning here.  On my local Facebook buy and sell group someone posted an ad that went like this..

47" LED TV - $250
TV is in pawn shop, cost $125 to get it out + I want $125 on top of that.


Sounds like somebody in my town is going to have their own "Pawn Shop Debacle", LOL

Toffeemama

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5631 on: December 14, 2016, 01:58:35 PM »
How about that secret sister gift exchange thing going around on facebook. You post on your wall and you only have to send 1 item (I've seen books and bottles of wine) and in return you will get between 6 and 36 items in return.

A friend posted it and I asked how if every person only sends 1 gift out, you get more back than the number of people participating. She never responded, but the post was deleted.

My mom participated in that, and tried to get me to sign up.  I didn't have the heart to explain it to her.

Edit:  I was also reminded of a friend who posts photos of this monthly clothing subscription box she receives.  Basically, this company sends you several items of clothing, every month, that they pick out for you, and you pay for them.  That's the deal.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 02:06:53 PM by Toffeemama »

Kitsune

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5632 on: December 14, 2016, 02:23:28 PM »
How about that secret sister gift exchange thing going around on facebook. You post on your wall and you only have to send 1 item (I've seen books and bottles of wine) and in return you will get between 6 and 36 items in return.

A friend posted it and I asked how if every person only sends 1 gift out, you get more back than the number of people participating. She never responded, but the post was deleted.

My mom participated in that, and tried to get me to sign up.  I didn't have the heart to explain it to her.

Edit:  I was also reminded of a friend who posts photos of this monthly clothing subscription box she receives.  Basically, this company sends you several items of clothing, every month, that they pick out for you, and you pay for them.  That's the deal.

To be fair: if I could find the mythical clothing service of my dreams, I'd pay for it. As it stands, it doesn't exist.

The mythical clothing service of my dreams would:
- Take into account exact size and body shape
- Take into account preferences (flannel button-down vs peplum top? Texture of fabric? etc)
- Take into account what's needed (aka: right now, I need button-down PJ tops and shirts, new black socks, high-waisted cotton panties for postpartum use, and 1-2 non-patterned cardigan in this specific range of colors, so ONLY send me that)
- Ship to Canada

Basically, if they could offer me a clothing service that was essentially an affordable personal shoppig service that delivered what I needed to my door without me needing to comb through 16 websites OR the mall, I'd totally pay an extra bit to avoid the aggravation. I don't need 6 cute tops that generally suit my tastes, nor am I willing to pay for them - eff subscription boxes. I'd absolutely pay for someone to find me the specific thing I want in under 6 hours of shopping, though. The mall near my old apartment had a FREE personal shopping service that did that. It wasnt well-known, but MAN was it useful.


cheapass

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5633 on: December 14, 2016, 11:00:36 PM »
I'm here, what's the fat chick want?

Man, you really got some jimmies rustled with this one LOL

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5634 on: December 15, 2016, 11:20:52 AM »
If you're going to use Facebook I highly recommend the Facebook Purity add in. It's free and totally cleans up all of the crap.
Seconded, except it's called "Fluff Busting Purity" for trademark reasons :)  No ads, no "sponsored" posts, and tons of ways you can customize (i.e. remove the junk) your feed.

I'm gonna have to look into this.

johnny847

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5635 on: December 16, 2016, 07:13:01 PM »
I unfollowed all my friends. Every single one. I had a totally blank newsfeed for months. It was fantastic. Now I'm deciding whether to re-follow just a few people that I actually miss having updates from, or whether to carry on manually going to their profile whenever I wonder what they're up to. I would highly recommend the mass unfollow.

I went a different direction and just quit Facebook entirely. I miss some of the pics from friends but nothing else about FB. I especially don't miss feeling addicted to the feed.

Another option is this browser extension http://socialfixer.com

Cpa Cat

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5636 on: December 18, 2016, 08:12:21 PM »
I fell for the Pyramid Scheme Book Club. I guess I didn't read closely enough, because I assumed it was going to be a situation where you send a book to someone else who expressed an interest and someone on the list sends a book to you. Like an actual Secret Santa - not some BS Facebook chain letter.

I was disappointed to get the "details" and I never shared it. But I did decide to buy the book to send to the person who wanted books. Because ultimately she just wanted someone to send her books.

Maybe the infinite supply of books comes from suckers like MgoSam and me who end up sending books without the expectation of receiving books in return... because we just want to send books to our friends. :)

Cathy

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5637 on: December 18, 2016, 10:38:12 PM »
But it is relatively recently in human society, and still not universal, that sexual preference is protected by being put in an "inherent" category rather than the "personal choice" category ...

I don't know what "inherent" or "personal choice" mean to you, but as far as I know there's no convincing evidence showing a particular etiology of sexual preferences (end even if those did exist, it wouldn't necessarily shed any light on "choice"). I'm not even aware of a convincing argument that sexual preference is a meaningful category. None of the models I've read even attempt to account for all of the diversity.

I think "choice" is irrelevant here. To be sure, the term "choice" can be useful as a descriptive shorthand (and I use it myself in that sense), but it has limited independent ontological content. The real reason that we shouldn't judge people for their sexual preferences is not because the preferences are "inherent", but because those preferences don't say anything negative about the person in question, and in particular do not reflect adversely on that person's character. A characteristic being "inherent" is a fragile basis on which to build protection for individual rights, not only because of the philosophical difficulties with choice, but also because acting on sexual preferences is itself a choice, and therefore a theory of rights based on "choice" protects only the preference and not the actions. The "choice" theory can't even deal with certain formalistic arguments against equal rights in the public sphere.

I briefly weighed in on the weight debate back on October 4, 2015, and my position has not changed since then. I think it's in poor taste to criticise people for their weight, but my analysis does not rely on "choice" or lack thereof. Instead, I just think that weight by itself doesn't tell you anything interesting about a person (not without a whole lot of other information), and therefore it is objectionable to criticise people for it without understanding the full story. Even if we assume that obesity is associated with poor willpower (a topic on which I express no comment), it's not necessarily present poor willpower but possibly only past poor willpower, and furthermore, it is really just one particular species of poor willpower that does not readily generalise to other life activities, or even to any important life activities outside of eating. The willpower involved in controlling how much food one eats involves a very specific set of biological effects which may not be the same effects that are relevant in other situations, such as in financial situations.

The weight issue is further complicated when the subject is a woman because, in general, our society heavily regulates appearance and beauty standards for women in a way it does not do for men. I found the phrase "fat chick" to be problematic because, in context, it seems like a pretty clear example of a patriarchal pejorative phrase designed to sanction a woman for straying from male-crafted standards of conventional physical attractiveness. The phrase was not just a neutral factual description. If that was the goal, a phrase like "the woman in the first photo" could have been used. No such unmarked phrase was used because the goal was to enforce beauty standards, not just to uniquely identify the person in the picture.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2016, 11:17:07 PM by Cathy »

[a]bort

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5638 on: December 19, 2016, 08:28:24 AM »
lol

Dave1442397

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5639 on: December 19, 2016, 08:33:40 AM »
If you're going to use Facebook I highly recommend the Facebook Purity add in. It's free and totally cleans up all of the crap.
Seconded, except it's called "Fluff Busting Purity" for trademark reasons :)  No ads, no "sponsored" posts, and tons of ways you can customize (i.e. remove the junk) your feed.

I'm gonna have to look into this.

I installed it yesterday - now FB works the way I want it to, for the most part. Thanks for the suggestion!

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5640 on: December 19, 2016, 09:31:23 AM »
Maybe the infinite supply of books comes from suckers like MgoSam and me who end up sending books without the expectation of receiving books in return... because we just want to send books to our friends. :)

LOL. If all that happens is that me and CPA Cat have sent a great book to someone we knew, I consider it a fair bargain. I LOVE reading and don't mind sharing books every once in a while.

For the record the book I sent was, "Shadow of the Wind," by Zafon.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5641 on: December 19, 2016, 10:47:24 AM »
But it is relatively recently in human society, and still not universal, that sexual preference is protected by being put in an "inherent" category rather than the "personal choice" category ...

I don't know what "inherent" or "personal choice" mean to you, but as far as I know there's no convincing evidence showing a particular etiology of sexual preferences (end even if those did exist, it wouldn't necessarily shed any light on "choice"). I'm not even aware of a convincing argument that sexual preference is a meaningful category. None of the models I've read even attempt to account for all of the diversity.

I think "choice" is irrelevant here. To be sure, the term "choice" can be useful as a descriptive shorthand (and I use it myself in that sense), but it has limited independent ontological content. The real reason that we shouldn't judge people for their sexual preferences is not because the preferences are "inherent", but because those preferences don't say anything negative about the person in question, and in particular do not reflect adversely on that person's character. A characteristic being "inherent" is a fragile basis on which to build protection for individual rights, not only because of the philosophical difficulties with choice, but also because acting on sexual preferences is itself a choice, and therefore a theory of rights based on "choice" protects only the preference and not the actions. The "choice" theory can't even deal with certain formalistic arguments against equal rights in the public sphere.

I briefly weighed in on the weight debate back on October 4, 2015, and my position has not changed since then. I think it's in poor taste to criticise people for their weight, but my analysis does not rely on "choice" or lack thereof. Instead, I just think that weight by itself doesn't tell you anything interesting about a person (not without a whole lot of other information), and therefore it is objectionable to criticise people for it without understanding the full story. Even if we assume that obesity is associated with poor willpower (a topic on which I express no comment), it's not necessarily present poor willpower but possibly only past poor willpower, and furthermore, it is really just one particular species of poor willpower that does not readily generalise to other life activities, or even to any important life activities outside of eating. The willpower involved in controlling how much food one eats involves a very specific set of biological effects which may not be the same effects that are relevant in other situations, such as in financial situations.

The weight issue is further complicated when the subject is a woman because, in general, our society heavily regulates appearance and beauty standards for women in a way it does not do for men. I found the phrase "fat chick" to be problematic because, in context, it seems like a pretty clear example of a patriarchal pejorative phrase designed to sanction a woman for straying from male-crafted standards of conventional physical attractiveness. The phrase was not just a neutral factual description. If that was the goal, a phrase like "the woman in the first photo" could have been used. No such unmarked phrase was used because the goal was to enforce beauty standards, not just to uniquely identify the person in the picture.

While I often have to read these sentences a few times to get the gist (and look up words in the dictionary too), I liked this response.  Well said.

viverl

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5642 on: December 21, 2016, 11:20:35 AM »
One of my favourite threads here is in dire need of some lightening up. So here: cat pictures from facebook - you could interprete it in some mustachian way if that is too off-topic. ;)




MgoSam

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5643 on: December 21, 2016, 12:47:12 PM »
I guess a new arcade opened up at the Mall of America. There's people on FB gushing about it.

It looks like a single go-kart ride costs $23, though there are probably packages or other ways to make the per ride cost lower. Virtual reality games cost $5 each. I can see this as being a money maker as there are plenty of people that will throw down money for such things.

The guy behind this is has opened up 5 in various malls in India, this is his first venture into the US. I give him credit for the investment.

JLee

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5644 on: December 21, 2016, 01:26:50 PM »
One of my favourite threads here is in dire need of some lightening up. So here: cat pictures from facebook - you could interprete it in some mustachian way if that is too off-topic. ;)



I see nothing wrong in this picture. :D

Sibley

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5645 on: December 21, 2016, 02:02:09 PM »
One of my favourite threads here is in dire need of some lightening up. So here: cat pictures from facebook - you could interprete it in some mustachian way if that is too off-topic. ;)



I see nothing wrong in this picture. :D

Provided all cats are adequately fed, loved, are spayed/neutered, and have shelter from bad weather (whatever that looks like) - this looks like heaven :)

I'm a red panda

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5646 on: December 21, 2016, 02:05:43 PM »
My first seeing that photo was that the cats were dead. It took me awhile to figure out why people were not okay with it...

marty998

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5647 on: December 21, 2016, 02:11:33 PM »
The weight issue is further complicated when the subject is a woman because, in general, our society heavily regulates appearance and beauty standards for women in a way it does not do for men. I found the phrase "fat chick" to be problematic because, in context, it seems like a pretty clear example of a patriarchal pejorative phrase designed to sanction a woman for straying from male-crafted standards of conventional physical attractiveness. The phrase was not just a neutral factual description. If that was the goal, a phrase like "the woman in the first photo" could have been used. No such unmarked phrase was used because the goal was to enforce beauty standards, not just to uniquely identify the person in the picture.

Not disagreeing with your post but have you read a women's magazine before? They are the ones holding women to impossible standards of beauty.

I would also add that body image is increasingly becoming a problem for boys/men too. The entire industry built around protein supplements, steroid use and fitness in general is testament to that.

cheapass

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5648 on: December 21, 2016, 02:18:19 PM »
I would also add that body image is increasingly becoming a problem for boys/men too. The entire industry built around protein supplements, steroid use and fitness in general is testament to that.

Good motivation to make good food choices and work out though, so one can be healthy and fit. We all can aspire for constant improvement and seeing examples of fit people is inspiring.

 Our maybe it's a "microaggression", who the hell knows in today's world.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 02:19:56 PM by cheapass »

Making Cookies

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #5649 on: December 21, 2016, 02:21:01 PM »
I guess a new arcade opened up at the Mall of America. There's people on FB gushing about it.

It looks like a single go-kart ride costs $23, though there are probably packages or other ways to make the per ride cost lower. Virtual reality games cost $5 each. I can see this as being a money maker as there are plenty of people that will throw down money for such things.

The guy behind this is has opened up 5 in various malls in India, this is his first venture into the US. I give him credit for the investment.

You can OWN a used go-cart for ~$150 from a garage sale...