Overheard on Facebook

[kayvent]

They were advertising 84 months financing for the new F-150 truck!  I personally think this is another form of predatory lending.  If someone has to finance a vehicle over 7 years, they DEFINITELY cannot afford the vehicle

Cashflow is important in business, if the rate is low enough and you are deducting the cost anyway it seems like a no-brainer.

... you would only buy such a vehicle because you had some sort of business that needed to haul loads off-road - right?

And you'd never get it if you only need a truck one or twice a year. Usually to help a friend move or pick up large furniture - right?

[nobodyspecial]

They were advertising 84 months financing for the new F-150 truck!  I personally think this is another form of predatory lending.  If someone has to finance a vehicle over 7 years, they DEFINITELY cannot afford the vehicle

Cashflow is important in business, if the rate is low enough and you are deducting the cost anyway it seems like a no-brainer.

... you would only buy such a vehicle because you had some sort of business that needed to haul loads off-road - right?

And you'd never get it if you only need a truck one or twice a year. Usually to help a friend move or pick up large furniture - right?

Obviously. I am surprised how many they sell though.
I guess that most Americans and Canadians must be cattle ranchers, wild-cat oil drillers or lumberjacks.

[Werthless]

What does it mean to have "incremental" inflation vs. compounded and why did it change?[/list]

I think he means it was almost negligible.

It changed because with industrialization people got money to buy things and there were things to buy.
For centuries the only thing you could buy was land and the people with money already had land and their money was in the form of land.
There wasn't a lot of cash around in the middle ages.

Nearly right. The CPI was pretty constant before centralized monetary policy that started with the Federal Reserve in 1913. It was determined that slight inflation was preferable to inflation brought on by war followed by deflation afterwards as inflation benefits borrowers (historically, this meant helping rural farmers, and it was a big part of the late 1800s Democrat platform). This slight inflationary policy meant that the gold standard was doomed, as happened in 1974.

So yes, it was only a few generations ago (about 100 years) where inflation was minimal overall.

<Image snipped>

I agree with your broader point, but any graph showing a concept (eg. stock prices, CPI) that is compounding will have that convex shape with an increasing slope. That doesnt tell you whether the underlying growth rate is increasing or decreasing over time, because it is very difficult for our eye to discern changes in convexity. A severe 20% jump in CPI would be hidden if it occurred in the left quarter of the graph. As an exercise, you can create a graph showing how $1 in Excel compounds a constant 3% over 150 years, and you might be surprised at the shape.

To avoid deception, most economists showing changes in growth rates will do one of 2 things. One, use a logarithmic scale. Two, show the yearly change without compounding. As an example, see image from Wikipedia below

[Pooperman]

What does it mean to have "incremental" inflation vs. compounded and why did it change?[/list]

I think he means it was almost negligible.

It changed because with industrialization people got money to buy things and there were things to buy.
For centuries the only thing you could buy was land and the people with money already had land and their money was in the form of land.
There wasn't a lot of cash around in the middle ages.

Nearly right. The CPI was pretty constant before centralized monetary policy that started with the Federal Reserve in 1913. It was determined that slight inflation was preferable to inflation brought on by war followed by deflation afterwards as inflation benefits borrowers (historically, this meant helping rural farmers, and it was a big part of the late 1800s Democrat platform). This slight inflationary policy meant that the gold standard was doomed, as happened in 1974.

So yes, it was only a few generations ago (about 100 years) where inflation was minimal overall.

<Image snipped>

I agree with your broader point, but any graph showing a concept (eg. stock prices, CPI) that is compounding will have that convex shape with an increasing slope. That doesn't tell you whether the underlying growth rate is increasing or decreasing over time, because it is very difficult for our eye to discern changes in convexity. A severe 20% jump in CPI would be hidden if it occurred in the left quarter of the graph. As an exercise, you can create a graph showing how $1 in Excel compounds a constant 3% over 150 years, and you might be surprised at the shape.

To avoid deception, most economists showing changes in growth rates will do one of 2 things. One, use a logarithmic scale. Two, show the yearly change without compounding. As an example, see image from Wikipedia below

I was trying to find a log scale version of it, but no luck going back as far as I wanted to. Still, it's obviously a long-term 0% year-to-year inflation between the beginning of the chart through WW1, at which point purposeful monetary policy takes over. The point was that it wasn't a direct result of industrialization (though it's probably an indirect one).

[Nederstash]

So, you buy 1500 bucks worth of iTunes cards because the 'IRS' called and said she could pay her debts that way... then she finds out it's a scam and Best Buy won't give a refund. Cue angry costumer service facebook post!

[Nederstash]

Btw this is from a glorious site called Failbook.

[MgoSam]

I've never tried to return a gift card, didn't realize they aren't returnable...which makes sense. Man is this person really stupid, it's unfortunate but it's people like her that keep scammers in business. Worst case is that she can sell the gift cards online, might need to take a slight haircut.

Reminds me of Entourage where Turtle is trying to buy expensive clothes and is using Vince's apple store credit to do so.

[Nederstash]

I guess she sent the cards to the scammer?

[Digital Dogma]

Thats one reason apple stopped selling itunes gift cards online and make you go in-store to purchase - scammers were using them and selling them at a discount online to launder the cash. I actually considered getting one as a gift for a family member till I realized I had to drive to the store and pick one up - screw that.

[MgoSam]

Thats one reason apple stopped selling itunes gift cards online and make you go in-store to purchase - scammers were using them and selling them at a discount online to launder the cash. I actually considered getting one as a gift for a family member till I realized I had to drive to the store and pick one up - screw that.

I thought you could buy them at Target, Best Buy, some grocery stores, and many more places? It's been ages since I've looked so maybe this has changed.

[merula]

Thats one reason apple stopped selling itunes gift cards online and make you go in-store to purchase - scammers were using them and selling them at a discount online to launder the cash. I actually considered getting one as a gift for a family member till I realized I had to drive to the store and pick one up - screw that.

I thought you could buy them at Target, Best Buy, some grocery stores, and many more places? It's been ages since I've looked so maybe this has changed.

Yeah, you can buy them everywhere. Including apple.com: http://www.apple.com/itunes/gifts/

Probably people are using this to launder money (and/or manufacture spend), but doesn't look like anyone's doing anything about it.

[BDWW]

Thats one reason apple stopped selling itunes gift cards online and make you go in-store to purchase - scammers were using them and selling them at a discount online to launder the cash. I actually considered getting one as a gift for a family member till I realized I had to drive to the store and pick one up - screw that.

I thought you could buy them at Target, Best Buy, some grocery stores, and many more places? It's been ages since I've looked so maybe this has changed.

Yeah, you can buy them everywhere. Including apple.com: http://www.apple.com/itunes/gifts/

Probably people are using this to launder money (and/or manufacture spend), but doesn't look like anyone's doing anything about it.

Timely, my uncle is a police chief, and we were just discussing this at picnic this weekend. They get calls constantly about scams like this, and he has to patiently explain to a surprising number of people: "No the IRS is not going to ask for Amazon gift cards/Itunes cards/whatever else".

[BTDretire]

Thats one reason apple stopped selling itunes gift cards online and make you go in-store to purchase - scammers were using them and selling them at a discount online to launder the cash. I actually considered getting one as a gift for a family member till I realized I had to drive to the store and pick one up - screw that.

I don't get it, how can you launder cash.
If your buying online, I guess your using stolen credit cards?
 But that wouldn't be laundering cash.
What don't I understand?

[Primm]

Thats one reason apple stopped selling itunes gift cards online and make you go in-store to purchase - scammers were using them and selling them at a discount online to launder the cash. I actually considered getting one as a gift for a family member till I realized I had to drive to the store and pick one up - screw that.

I don't get it, how can you launder cash.
If your buying online, I guess your using stolen credit cards?
 But that wouldn't be laundering cash.
What don't I understand?

Cash received as a result of crime is used to buy legitimate forms of "currency". Said currency is sold at a discount. Original criminal gets not-quite-as-much money as they originally stole, but it's at arms length from the crime (money into bank account from eBay sales for example).

So they get money, but a little bit less, but it's harder to connect them to the crime. And since they didn't earn it but stole it they count the "discount" is the cost of gaining the money.

[dragoncar]

So, you buy 1500 bucks worth of iTunes cards because the 'IRS' called and said she could pay her debts that way... then she finds out it's a scam and Best Buy won't give a refund. Cue angry costumer service facebook post!

Honestly, I agree Best Buy should train their employees to at least flag this to the customer.  If they can't give refunds, fine, but at least try to warn the customer that there have been recent scams involving large gift cards.  Western Union is almost entirely funded by scammers these days.

[Paul der Krake]

How has this person made it so far in life without falling off a cliff?

Itunes gift cards. The IRS. Seriously.

[GoConfidently]

It's back to school time and a mom asked the Facebook chorus how many new outfits to buy for her second grader. Another mom replied that she buys 30-40 tops and 20-30 bottoms for her elementary child because she hates laundry. 30-40 shirts for an 8 year old!?!?!?! Holy consumerism, batman.

[ender]

It's back to school time and a mom asked the Facebook chorus how many new outfits to buy for her second grader. Another mom replied that she buys 30-40 tops and 20-30 bottoms for her elementary child because she hates laundry. 30-40 shirts for an 8 year old!?!?!?! Holy consumerism, batman.

To be fair, that could be $50 total if it's on Craigslist or garage sales.

Thats one reason apple stopped selling itunes gift cards online and make you go in-store to purchase - scammers were using them and selling them at a discount online to launder the cash. I actually considered getting one as a gift for a family member till I realized I had to drive to the store and pick one up - screw that.

I'm pretty sure I've seen them at Sams Club, too, so you might not have to go to an Apple store.

[Kenbo]

It's back to school time and a mom asked the Facebook chorus how many new outfits to buy for her second grader. Another mom replied that she buys 30-40 tops and 20-30 bottoms for her elementary child because she hates laundry. 30-40 shirts for an 8 year old!?!?!?! Holy consumerism, batman.

Lol, because washing 50 things once is less work than washing 10 things 5 times.

[dragoncar]

It's back to school time and a mom asked the Facebook chorus how many new outfits to buy for her second grader. Another mom replied that she buys 30-40 tops and 20-30 bottoms for her elementary child because she hates laundry. 30-40 shirts for an 8 year old!?!?!?! Holy consumerism, batman.

Lol, because washing 50 things once is less work than washing 10 things 5 times.

There's an optimal number of outfits to own, which is basically the amount that will fit in one full load of laundry, plus one to wear while you are doing laundry (possibly plus some if you can't always get to laundry on time).  If you own less than a full load, you are doing too many partial loads.  If you own two full loads you just own clothes you don't really need.

[Pooperman]

It's back to school time and a mom asked the Facebook chorus how many new outfits to buy for her second grader. Another mom replied that she buys 30-40 tops and 20-30 bottoms for her elementary child because she hates laundry. 30-40 shirts for an 8 year old!?!?!?! Holy consumerism, batman.

Lol, because washing 50 things once is less work than washing 10 things 5 times.

If you own two full loads you just own clothes you don't really needneed a bigger washing machine.

Have you seen the monsters my apartment complex has? 2 or 3 loads in one go!

[Goldielocks]

It's back to school time and a mom asked the Facebook chorus how many new outfits to buy for her second grader. Another mom replied that she buys 30-40 tops and 20-30 bottoms for her elementary child because she hates laundry. 30-40 shirts for an 8 year old!?!?!?! Holy consumerism, batman.

To be fair, that could be $50 total if it's on Craigslist or garage sales.

I am trying to imagine what laundry day looks like -- for someone who hates laundry, I guess I can understand it when it looks like you need a forklift to get through it.

[MrRealEstate]

They were advertising 84 months financing for the new F-150 truck!  I personally think this is another form of predatory lending.  If someone has to finance a vehicle over 7 years, they DEFINITELY cannot afford the vehicle

Cashflow is important in business, if the rate is low enough and you are deducting the cost anyway it seems like a no-brainer.

... you would only buy such a vehicle because you had some sort of business that needed to haul loads off-road - right?

And you'd never get it if you only need a truck one or twice a year. Usually to help a friend move or pick up large furniture - right?

Obviously. I am surprised how many they sell though.
I guess that most Americans and Canadians must be cattle ranchers, wild-cat oil drillers or lumberjacks.

California by itself employs over 350k people for agricultural work. While not all of them need trucks, it does still represent a decent number of sales.

[MustachianAccountant]

They were advertising 84 months financing for the new F-150 truck!  I personally think this is another form of predatory lending.  If someone has to finance a vehicle over 7 years, they DEFINITELY cannot afford the vehicle

Cashflow is important in business, if the rate is low enough and you are deducting the cost anyway it seems like a no-brainer.

... you would only buy such a vehicle because you had some sort of business that needed to haul loads off-road - right?

And you'd never get it if you only need a truck one or twice a year. Usually to help a friend move or pick up large furniture - right?

Obviously. I am surprised how many they sell though.
I guess that most Americans and Canadians must be cattle ranchers, wild-cat oil drillers or lumberjacks.

California by itself employs over 350k people for agricultural work. While not all of them need trucks, it does still represent a decent number of sales.

I don't understand why an agricultural worker needs a truck. I can see why the business that employs them might need a truck, but not the workers. Is this a requirement for agricultural workers - that they provide their own truck for the business to use?

[Kitsune]

It's back to school time and a mom asked the Facebook chorus how many new outfits to buy for her second grader. Another mom replied that she buys 30-40 tops and 20-30 bottoms for her elementary child because she hates laundry. 30-40 shirts for an 8 year old!?!?!?! Holy consumerism, batman.

To be fair, that could be $50 total if it's on Craigslist or garage sales.

I am trying to imagine what laundry day looks like -- for someone who hates laundry, I guess I can understand it when it looks like you need a forklift to get through it.

No joke: what changed laundry for us is one of those 3-basket laundry hampers (whites, darks, delicates). We just run a load when a basket gets full which is usually around when one of us starts running low on clothes and doesn't require emptying everything out on the floor and sorting and making a Production of it. It's a mental thing, sure, but it helps keep things running smoothly.

Also, optimal # of weather appropriate clothing for my toddler is 7-8 leggings, 7-8 shirts, and 3-4 sweaters. 30??!

[nobodyspecial]

They were advertising 84 months financing for the new F-150 truck!  I personally think this is another form of predatory lending.  If someone has to finance a vehicle over 7 years, they DEFINITELY cannot afford the vehicle

Cashflow is important in business, if the rate is low enough and you are deducting the cost anyway it seems like a no-brainer.

... you would only buy such a vehicle because you had some sort of business that needed to haul loads off-road - right?

And you'd never get it if you only need a truck one or twice a year. Usually to help a friend move or pick up large furniture - right?

Obviously. I am surprised how many they sell though.
I guess that most Americans and Canadians must be cattle ranchers, wild-cat oil drillers or lumberjacks.

California by itself employs over 350k people for agricultural work. While not all of them need trucks, it does still represent a decent number of sales.

I don't understand why an agricultural worker needs a truck. I can see why the business that employs them might need a truck, but not the workers. Is this a requirement for agricultural workers - that they provide their own truck for the business to use?

I guess that fording rivers and climbing snow covered mountain gravel roads (I watched the ads) is the only way to get to work for fruit pickers in California - but if so a Subaru would probably be more cost effective.

[LeRainDrop]

Friend who was recently married just posted a couple photos (one is not enough!) of her new monogrammed All-Clad fry pan.  The bottom of the pan has their initials and the date of their wedding.  It seems someone bought this for them off their registry, and the couple is so grateful, wife says, "Just ask [husband] how excited he is to have another pan."

[Magilla]

Friend who was recently married just posted a couple photos (one is not enough!) of her new monogrammed All-Clad fry pan.  The bottom of the pan has their initials and the date of their wedding.  It seems someone bought this for them off their registry, and the couple is so grateful, wife says, "Just ask [husband] how excited he is to have another pan."

If it was a gift why is this antimustachian?  I know I would appreciate such a gift as I love All-Clad products (indestructible and high quality).  I have some kitchen knives I bought in Japan with my name on them and I love them.  Use them all the time.  Now, I would never post a facebook pic or post about it (I never post on FB anyway) but if you love to cook I can see being excited by good kitchenware.

[dragoncar]

Friend who was recently married just posted a couple photos (one is not enough!) of her new monogrammed All-Clad fry pan.  The bottom of the pan has their initials and the date of their wedding.  It seems someone bought this for them off their registry, and the couple is so grateful, wife says, "Just ask [husband] how excited he is to have another pan."

If it was a gift why is this antimustachian?  I know I would appreciate such a gift as I love All-Clad products (indestructible and high quality).  I have some kitchen knives I bought in Japan with my name on them and I love them.  Use them all the time.  Now, I would never post a facebook pic or post about it (I never post on FB anyway) but if you love to cook I can see being excited by good kitchenware.

Monogram costs $9 ... doesn't seem crazy for a pan you will (should) have for life.  I've got some All-Clad and consider it in the semi-mustachian BIFL category.

[LeRainDrop]

Friend who was recently married just posted a couple photos (one is not enough!) of her new monogrammed All-Clad fry pan.  The bottom of the pan has their initials and the date of their wedding.  It seems someone bought this for them off their registry, and the couple is so grateful, wife says, "Just ask [husband] how excited he is to have another pan."

If it was a gift why is this antimustachian?  I know I would appreciate such a gift as I love All-Clad products (indestructible and high quality).  I have some kitchen knives I bought in Japan with my name on them and I love them.  Use them all the time.  Now, I would never post a facebook pic or post about it (I never post on FB anyway) but if you love to cook I can see being excited by good kitchenware.

Monogram costs $9 ... doesn't seem crazy for a pan you will (should) have for life.  I've got some All-Clad and consider it in the semi-mustachian BIFL category.

Fair enough -- point taken.  It just struck me as a little over-indulgent.  I guess my bigger issue is the people who put all sorts of expensive stuff on their wedding registry because it's considered an "acceptable" time to be peddling for unnecessary gifts.  Like, "This looks neat.  I'll just plop it on there and some poor sap will buy it for me."

[Goldielocks]

Huh,  maybe they listed All Clad on their registry, thinking that they could return it for cash, but someone actually made a gift out of it.

[dragoncar]

Friend who was recently married just posted a couple photos (one is not enough!) of her new monogrammed All-Clad fry pan.  The bottom of the pan has their initials and the date of their wedding.  It seems someone bought this for them off their registry, and the couple is so grateful, wife says, "Just ask [husband] how excited he is to have another pan."

If it was a gift why is this antimustachian?  I know I would appreciate such a gift as I love All-Clad products (indestructible and high quality).  I have some kitchen knives I bought in Japan with my name on them and I love them.  Use them all the time.  Now, I would never post a facebook pic or post about it (I never post on FB anyway) but if you love to cook I can see being excited by good kitchenware.

Monogram costs $9 ... doesn't seem crazy for a pan you will (should) have for life.  I've got some All-Clad and consider it in the semi-mustachian BIFL category.

Fair enough -- point taken.  It just struck me as a little over-indulgent.  I guess my bigger issue is the people who put all sorts of expensive stuff on their wedding registry because it's considered an "acceptable" time to be peddling for unnecessary gifts.  Like, "This looks neat.  I'll just plop it on there and some poor sap will buy it for me."

Totally, it's all because of that stupid scanning gun they give you (or so I hear).  I'm sure the impulse-buy effect is intentional there.

[BTDretire]

Huh,  maybe they listed All Clad on their registry, thinking that they could return it for cash, but someone actually made a gift out of it.

LOL.

That's my goal in life, to get my own monogrammed pan.  (sarcasm)

[Logic_Lady]

Just found on my Facebook wall, posted by one of my former colleagues. Translated into english it means: "I don't spend, I reward myself" (in French, these two words rhyme). Ugh.

Her comment that she put along with it was that it's "good for the soul".

That would be a great philosophy if you rewarded yourself in ways that don't involve spending money. But somehow I doubt that's what she meant...

[ender]

Just found on my Facebook wall, posted by one of my former colleagues. Translated into english it means: "I don't spend, I reward myself" (in French, these two words rhyme). Ugh.

Her comment that she put along with it was that it's "good for the soul".

That would be a great philosophy if you rewarded yourself in ways that don't involve spending money. But somehow I doubt that's what she meant...

Or that not spending WAS rewarding herself :)

[Warlord1986]

A coworker just posted about how she had a higher power and water bill than usual and how she can't seem to save anything, and there was no time for fun this summer.

Somebody in the comments section pointed out that she bought a pool.

[MgoSam]

Just found on my Facebook wall, posted by one of my former colleagues. Translated into english it means: "I don't spend, I reward myself" (in French, these two words rhyme). Ugh.

Her comment that she put along with it was that it's "good for the soul".

That would be a great philosophy if you rewarded yourself in ways that don't involve spending money. But somehow I doubt that's what she meant...

Or that not spending WAS rewarding herself :)

"a penny saved is a penny earned."
-Ben Franklin

[Pooperman]

Just found on my Facebook wall, posted by one of my former colleagues. Translated into english it means: "I don't spend, I reward myself" (in French, these two words rhyme). Ugh.

Her comment that she put along with it was that it's "good for the soul".

That would be a great philosophy if you rewarded yourself in ways that don't involve spending money. But somehow I doubt that's what she meant...

Or that not spending WAS rewarding herself :)

"a penny saved is a penny earned."
-Ben Franklin

That's more like a quarter saved is a quarter earned because of inflation since 1800 ;).

[AMandM]

"a penny saved is a penny earned."
-Ben Franklin

That's more like a quarter saved is a quarter earned because of inflation since 1800 ;).

No, it's more than a quarter earned because you have to pay income taxes  ;).

[nobodyspecial]

"a penny saved is a penny earned."
-Ben Franklin

That's more like a quarter saved is a quarter earned because of inflation since 1800 ;).

No, it's more than a quarter earned because you have to pay income taxes  ;).

A quarter saved is a dollar earned if you are a hedge fund manager with carried interest tax deferment
 

[MgoSam]

"a penny saved is a penny earned."
-Ben Franklin

That's more like a quarter saved is a quarter earned because of inflation since 1800 ;).

No, it's more than a quarter earned because you have to pay income taxes  ;).

A quarter saved is a dollar earned if you are a hedge fund manager with carried interest tax deferment

Using the very precise method of "the first links I found when googling", $0.01 saved in 1776 the inflation-adjusted amount today would be ~$30. That would need to be ~$34 earned before taxes (my state does not have an income tax). So a 1776 penny saved is a 2016 $34 earned?

Not bad. Two curiosities cross my mind

a. That penny would be worth considerably more if someone had invested it since 1776
b. I wonder how much a penny that had been minted in this time and had been preserved would fetch in an auction?

[druth]

Not bad. Two curiosities cross my mind

a. That penny would be worth considerably more if someone had invested it since 1776
b. I wonder how much a penny that had been minted in this time and had been preserved would fetch in an auction?

about $100 it looks like
http://www.ebay.com/itm/COA-1776-Magic-Keydate-Date-of-Independence-Colonial-New-York-Penny-Zeeland-/391502980070?hash=item5b276563e6:g:n0UAAOSwJQdXCxho

[AlanStache]

...
Not bad. Two curiosities cross my mind

a. That penny would be worth considerably more if someone had invested it since 1776
b. I wonder how much a penny that had been minted in this time and had been preserved would fetch in an auction?

A: Math says 112k$.
http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator/compound_interest_calculator.htm
0.01$ at 7% for 240 years. 
Not that there were broad market etfs in 1776...

[MgoSam]

Thanks guys!

[bebegirl]

Ok, one more for you from FB conversation today:

One guy is posting pics of storage space and tells everyone in the group that he wants to rent it out.
Several people commented at once being interested and inquiring the price.

The price is...  $700 per month!

Someone commented that this is a nice price, quote unquote, ( I don't know, hope this is a joke).

Then now another guy is commenting that he is renting space for $246 per month for 10x20x8 storage space.

Now I see another comment that someone is interested but is willing to share the space with someone because he does not need as much space.

Goodness, just throw away your crap and save $700 per month, lol

P.S. OMG, the space which turned out to be 900sf is already taken by someone! That was quick! Oh, what a waste and I am happy for the smart guy who rented out his space and got money for someone's staff!

[MrRealEstate]

They were advertising 84 months financing for the new F-150 truck!  I personally think this is another form of predatory lending.  If someone has to finance a vehicle over 7 years, they DEFINITELY cannot afford the vehicle

Cashflow is important in business, if the rate is low enough and you are deducting the cost anyway it seems like a no-brainer.

... you would only buy such a vehicle because you had some sort of business that needed to haul loads off-road - right?

And you'd never get it if you only need a truck one or twice a year. Usually to help a friend move or pick up large furniture - right?

Obviously. I am surprised how many they sell though.
I guess that most Americans and Canadians must be cattle ranchers, wild-cat oil drillers or lumberjacks.

California by itself employs over 350k people for agricultural work. While not all of them need trucks, it does still represent a decent number of sales.

I don't understand why an agricultural worker needs a truck. I can see why the business that employs them might need a truck, but not the workers. Is this a requirement for agricultural workers - that they provide their own truck for the business to use?

I guess that fording rivers and climbing snow covered mountain gravel roads (I watched the ads) is the only way to get to work for fruit pickers in California - but if so a Subaru would probably be more cost effective.

A lot of the employees who are exclusively pickers use astro vans since they have a ridiculous people carrying capacity and are fairly cheap. Any employee above that would be asked to carry parts, tires, tools, and an air compressor on a daily basis due to the cost of downtime in a seasonal business.

[Papa Mustache]

A lot of the employees who are exclusively pickers use astro vans since they have a ridiculous people carrying capacity and are fairly cheap. Any employee above that would be asked to carry parts, tires, tools, and an air compressor on a daily basis due to the cost of downtime in a seasonal business.

And the Astro van can be had with AWD/4WD since they are technically an S-10 p/u or SUV underneath. Didn't know that until I saw one in the parking lot at work one day. Looked like it was garage kept b/c it was "new".

[Digital Dogma]

So then who does use pick up trucks? Actually use, not just drive around?

My in-laws live in a rural area so they have to haul their own trash to the dump instead of having a pick up service, aside from that I don't know what they use their pick up bed for regularly.

I used to use light pickups (Tacoma, Ranger) to haul loads of logs out of the woods down skidder trails when I was doing a lot of logging and tree work. We'd use a 4X4 tractor to load the thickest part of the trunk into an F550, then all the limbs would go into the light pickup, and everything small would get chipped with the PTO mounted woodchipper. It would save us hours of time hauling sticks with a 4X4 tractor or F550 dump truck when thats not necessary at all.

We'd take it all over the road for 20 miles to our house where we'd burn it for heat in our wood stove over the winter.

[horsepoor]

So then who does use pick up trucks? Actually use, not just drive around?

My in-laws live in a rural area so they have to haul their own trash to the dump instead of having a pick up service, aside from that I don't know what they use their pick up bed for regularly.

I have an F-250 and use it for towing a horse trailer and moving loads of landscaping rock and bringing home horse manure to compost.  Has also come in handy for hauling loads to the dump.

[Paul der Krake]

So then who does use pick up trucks? Actually use, not just drive around?

DW's family uses an "entry level truck" for some light farming. The 4 wheel drive necessary for the mud and crossing a river, and it barely ever sees paved roads. The truck bed is used to haul stuff farm stuff around, and feed animals. They recently bought a 5 year old Silverado for $15k to replace a beat up 1981 Ford that finally died. It's not used for heavy hauling- they bring industrial-grade machinery and people who do this for a living for that. For their use cases, nothing beats the versatility of a pickup truck.

You're right, they are literally the only people I have ever met in person with an actual need for a truck. 99% of truck owners don't need it. Everyone who rationalizes it by hauling a dishwasher twice a year is fooling themselves.