Overheard at Work

[HairyUpperLip]

I was waiting for the "wench" responses and y'all did not disappoint.  :D

Just now I was having two coworkers' conversation inflicted on me, and it struck me how many of them have part-time jobs in addition to this job.  This is not a HCOL area and many of them have been here a lot longer than I have so they should be making more money than I do, but one in the conversation said "you need two jobs just to LIVE!" and the other agreed, then proceeded to show the first one new boots she'd just bought.  I just shook my head and checked my Wealthfront account balances, all of which are showing a nice amount of FU money.

To be fair, a lot of people here have two jobs, but probably for different reasons. :)

I delivered pizza's for a little bit even with a $96k salary job. Mostly just to occupy my time since my day job was WFH.

I actually liked doing it. It was mindless compared to my normal job and the cash tips were nice.

[druth]

I was waiting for the "wench" responses and y'all did not disappoint.  :D

Just now I was having two coworkers' conversation inflicted on me, and it struck me how many of them have part-time jobs in addition to this job.  This is not a HCOL area and many of them have been here a lot longer than I have so they should be making more money than I do, but one in the conversation said "you need two jobs just to LIVE!" and the other agreed, then proceeded to show the first one new boots she'd just bought.  I just shook my head and checked my Wealthfront account balances, all of which are showing a nice amount of FU money.

To be fair, a lot of people here have two jobs, but probably for different reasons. :)

I delivered pizza's for a little bit even with a $96k salary job. Mostly just to occupy my time since my day job was WFH.

I actually liked doing it. It was mindless compared to my normal job and the cash tips were nice.

Yeah, I coach some high school teams.  I consider it paid volunteering.  It's 30% of the work of my full time job, and 10% of the pay, but I would probably do it for free so money is bonus.

[Fishingmn]

1. Called to refinance his new home loan. Said it was a VA jumbo loan with a balance of 550k, mentioned that he didn't put much if anything down, but had 100k to add to it as part of the refi because he sold his previous home.

2 days ago when he called the mortgage company I was wondering why a person approaching 50 didn't have enough money to put much of anything down on his 550k+ house. Then I heard him talk about his Porsche, want of a pimped out Jeep Wrangler and obsession with perfect credit and now I think I get it.

One big attraction of a VA loan is the fact that you don't have to make a down payment (in addition to lower credit requirements). One of the perks we give veterans in exchange for their service. The fact that he is now looking to pay it down by $100k sounds like a good thing to me.

[Goldielocks]

I found one today.... our Professional Engineering Society hosts technical seminars for continuing education credit, networking and skills upgrading for the P.Engs
Usually these are at a hotel, have topics like "Seismic Retrofit Guidelines- Liquefaction Guidelines Workshop"  or "CSA Z462, 3rd Edition Changes & Impacts" (Electrical code updates)...   They need to book a room, host with coffee, etc.  Usually $300 cost.  Not bad for a day of badass employment skills.

The Webinar versions are good, too, as you can dial in from a remote location, and / or have a team of 5 persons sitting in the room, all for the same price.

Today, I realized that they also have leadership skills webinars, "Dealing with aging parents", and one on Wealth Strategies for small business.   Well, I am very interested in learning all I can about getting wealthy through part time consulting, so went to register.

Here is the kicker.
It is a Webinar only, 2 hours long,  hosted by a major bank (i.e.., marketing for them) and the fee is still $50. 

What?  This is exactly the type of webinar that should be free or have all proceeds go to the Engineers Benevolent fund (Bursaries).     I feel like my association has sold us to the highest bidder.

[MrMoogle]

I found one today.... our Professional Engineering Society hosts technical seminars for continuing education credit, networking and skills upgrading for the P.Engs
Usually these are at a hotel, have topics like "Seismic Retrofit Guidelines- Liquefaction Guidelines Workshop"  or "CSA Z462, 3rd Edition Changes & Impacts" (Electrical code updates)...   They need to book a room, host with coffee, etc.  Usually $300 cost.  Not bad for a day of badass employment skills.

The Webinar versions are good, too, as you can dial in from a remote location, and / or have a team of 5 persons sitting in the room, all for the same price.

Today, I realized that they also have leadership skills webinars, "Dealing with aging parents", and one on Wealth Strategies for small business.   Well, I am very interested in learning all I can about getting wealthy through part time consulting, so went to register.

Here is the kicker.
It is a Webinar only, 2 hours long,  hosted by a major bank (i.e.., marketing for them) and the fee is still $50. 

What?  This is exactly the type of webinar that should be free or have all proceeds go to the Engineers Benevolent fund (Bursaries).     I feel like my association has sold us to the highest bidder.

Step 1:  Stop paying for financial information, there's something called the internet, and something called the library.

[MoonShadow]

1. Called to refinance his new home loan. Said it was a VA jumbo loan with a balance of 550k, mentioned that he didn't put much if anything down, but had 100k to add to it as part of the refi because he sold his previous home.

2 days ago when he called the mortgage company I was wondering why a person approaching 50 didn't have enough money to put much of anything down on his 550k+ house. Then I heard him talk about his Porsche, want of a pimped out Jeep Wrangler and obsession with perfect credit and now I think I get it.

One big attraction of a VA loan is the fact that you don't have to make a down payment (in addition to lower credit requirements). One of the perks we give veterans in exchange for their service. The fact that he is now looking to pay it down by $100k sounds like a good thing to me.

A bigger one is that a VA loan never requires the mortgage insurance that is typical for conventional loans with less than 20% down.  That was the big one for me.

[steviesterno]

we got a company wide, $1000 bonus a few weeks ago. I was probably the only one who wanted it to be a raise instead (increases my employee 403b contribution!) and hearing everyone talk about how they are going to spend it is crazy. So many co workers have plans for a vacation, upgraded car, christmas trip for the family. Almost all of them are spending more than the pre-tax amount, let alone the$600 it works out to be. I'm like sweet, 3.2shares of Voo!

[Goldielocks]

I found one today.... our Professional Engineering Society hosts technical seminars for continuing education credit, networking and skills upgrading for the P.Engs
Usually these are at a hotel, have topics like "Seismic Retrofit Guidelines- Liquefaction Guidelines Workshop"  or "CSA Z462, 3rd Edition Changes & Impacts" (Electrical code updates)...   They need to book a room, host with coffee, etc.  Usually $300 cost.  Not bad for a day of badass employment skills.

The Webinar versions are good, too, as you can dial in from a remote location, and / or have a team of 5 persons sitting in the room, all for the same price.

Today, I realized that they also have leadership skills webinars, "Dealing with aging parents", and one on Wealth Strategies for small business.   Well, I am very interested in learning all I can about getting wealthy through part time consulting, so went to register.

Here is the kicker.
It is a Webinar only, 2 hours long,  hosted by a major bank (i.e.., marketing for them) and the fee is still $50. 

What?  This is exactly the type of webinar that should be free or have all proceeds go to the Engineers Benevolent fund (Bursaries).     I feel like my association has sold us to the highest bidder.

Step 1:  Stop paying for financial information, there's something called the internet, and something called the library.

You would be surprised at how hard it is to find advanced detail I am looking for on the internet and library, about consulting, taxation and optimizing partnership returns.   90% of it is about the USA, and the 10% remaining is still quite general or at a pretty incomprehensible levell. I might as well read the tax treasury advisory notices directly.

[Proud Foot]

I found one today.... our Professional Engineering Society hosts technical seminars for continuing education credit, networking and skills upgrading for the P.Engs
Usually these are at a hotel, have topics like "Seismic Retrofit Guidelines- Liquefaction Guidelines Workshop"  or "CSA Z462, 3rd Edition Changes & Impacts" (Electrical code updates)...   They need to book a room, host with coffee, etc.  Usually $300 cost.  Not bad for a day of badass employment skills.

The Webinar versions are good, too, as you can dial in from a remote location, and / or have a team of 5 persons sitting in the room, all for the same price.

Today, I realized that they also have leadership skills webinars, "Dealing with aging parents", and one on Wealth Strategies for small business.   Well, I am very interested in learning all I can about getting wealthy through part time consulting, so went to register.

Here is the kicker.
It is a Webinar only, 2 hours long,  hosted by a major bank (i.e.., marketing for them) and the fee is still $50. 

What?  This is exactly the type of webinar that should be free or have all proceeds go to the Engineers Benevolent fund (Bursaries).     I feel like my association has sold us to the highest bidder.

Step 1:  Stop paying for financial information, there's something called the internet, and something called the library.

You would be surprised at how hard it is to find advanced detail I am looking for on the internet and library, about consulting, taxation and optimizing partnership returns.   90% of it is about the USA, and the 10% remaining is still quite general or at a pretty incomprehensible levell. I might as well read the tax treasury advisory notices directly.

Goldilocks mentioned continuing education credit in the original post, not sure if these financial webinars count though.  A lot of times the only way to get the credit is to pay for courses which have been approved by the governing body.

[Papa Mustache]

I've listened to an entire morning's worth of conversations about how awesome this CW's new truck is. He traded an F150 worth $25K for a new F250 to pull an RV (also just purchased). He and his wife both drive 20+ miles to work here in the same building.
Separately, because they need time apart.
She drives a van.

That astounds me! OMG.

My coworker=$35K/yr, occasionally runs home at lunch or to his end of town on an errand. 20 miles each way in a 15mpg vehicle, and b/c he burns all his lunch hour, must pickup fast food along the way b/c he couldn't grab a sandwich at home or his SAHW couldn't have lunch waiting for him... Usually errands like running to a store or the bank or visiting some office only open while we are at work.

[MgoSam]

we got a company wide, $1000 bonus a few weeks ago. I was probably the only one who wanted it to be a raise instead (increases my employee 403b contribution!)

Why wouldn't everyone want it to be a raise? Bonuses are a one-time thing, while raises are longer lasting. As an owner, I prefer bonuses during good times because I absolutely hate the thought of lowering wages or laying anyone off, so would rather have a consistent wage and give year-end bonuses.

[LeRainDrop]

My coworker=$35K/yr, occasionally runs home at lunch or to his end of town on an errand. 20 miles each way in a 15mpg vehicle, and b/c he burns all his lunch hour, must pickup fast food along the way b/c he couldn't grab a sandwich at home or his SAHW couldn't have lunch waiting for him... Usually errands like running to a store or the bank or visiting some office only open while we are at work.

Oh that's too bad.  When I started reading, I thought you meant he exercise-ran home so that he could eat lunch there rather that buy it near the office everyday.  That would have been a really awesome workday practice.

[zephyr911]

we got a company wide, $1000 bonus a few weeks ago. I was probably the only one who wanted it to be a raise instead (increases my employee 403b contribution!)

Why wouldn't everyone want it to be a raise? Bonuses are a one-time thing, while raises are longer lasting. As an owner, I prefer bonuses during good times because I absolutely hate the thought of lowering wages or laying anyone off, so would rather have a consistent wage and give year-end bonuses.

When you run your finances with no intentionality, getting paid more just means you spend more, and you never have extra money.

But a BONUS? Think how excited people get about their tax refunds, even though it's just their own money that, intentionally or not, they saved up in a 0% IRS savings account....

[Papa Mustache]

My coworker=$35K/yr, occasionally runs home at lunch or to his end of town on an errand. 20 miles each way in a 15mpg vehicle, and b/c he burns all his lunch hour, must pickup fast food along the way b/c he couldn't grab a sandwich at home or his SAHW couldn't have lunch waiting for him... Usually errands like running to a store or the bank or visiting some office only open while we are at work.

Oh that's too bad.  When I started reading, I thought you meant he exercise-ran home so that he could eat lunch there rather that buy it near the office everyday.  That would have been a really awesome workday practice.

Doesn't bicycle, doesn't run, doesn't walk (if he can ride...)

;)

[mustachepungoeshere]

Husband's colleague hasn't filed a tax return in five years.

He is separated from his wife and in the middle of a very messy custody dispute, so everything is under the microscope, and he can't provide basic financial records.

[Astatine]

Husband's colleague hasn't filed a tax return in five years.

He is separated from his wife and in the middle of a very messy custody dispute, so everything is under the microscope, and he can't provide basic financial records.

It amazes me how many people I come across who haven't done their tax returns for years. Many of them even seem like competent people who have their shit together.

[Asdfg]

My employer has a benefit that allows us to buy food at a really cheap price. Colleagues were discussing how much money they could save if they would buy big amounts of quality food when it's super cheap and freeze it for later use and use it as a meal component. Then they proceeded to talk how they can't do it, and continue eating at the company restaurant.

[shanghaiMMM]

I have one that's a little sad.

A couple at work, both have decent paying positions. He has a degree in finance and seems savvy towards investing and the like. He once mentioned he bought $30,000 of gold and it went up to 4x that amount (not an indicator of much at all, I know, but still, he's into investing which is more than many). I've broached the topic of retirement with him before, as he seemed the only one at work who might get it. This time we talked and it went something like this:

Me: You wear that same tie every day?

Him: Yep! I have a row of ties in my cupboard and use one each year. I then cut it up and it's my count down to retirement!

Me: Huh, interesting! How many ties do you have left?? (Note - The guy is about 38)

Him: About 20. That should do it. We want over $2m for retirement.

Me: But... but... that's ages away! That's going to give you about $80,000 a year, what can you even spend that on?!

Him: Oh we have our eye on this relaxing retirement place with a lake and nice garden.


I mean, he's doing better than most and seems fairly financially savvy but ffs. Retire at 58 to grow fat and old in a quasi-retirement home?! Damn.

[arebelspy]

I like the tie countdown concept though.

[boarder42]

I like the tie countdown concept though.

yeah i work at an engineering firm that still lives in the 20s and wears ties.  i may take this idea on.  we just got flex time a year ago and its not THAT flexible we just have 9-4 core hours now, waiting on the 9-80s to kick in, but by that time i'll probably be down to 32 hour weeks anyways.

[astvilla]

I have one that's a little sad.

A couple at work, both have decent paying positions. He has a degree in finance and seems savvy towards investing and the like. He once mentioned he bought $30,000 of gold and it went up to 4x that amount (not an indicator of much at all, I know, but still, he's into investing which is more than many). I've broached the topic of retirement with him before, as he seemed the only one at work who might get it. This time we talked and it went something like this:

Me: You wear that same tie every day?

Him: Yep! I have a row of ties in my cupboard and use one each year. I then cut it up and it's my count down to retirement!

Me: Huh, interesting! How many ties do you have left?? (Note - The guy is about 38)

Him: About 20. That should do it. We want over $2m for retirement.

Me: But... but... that's ages away! That's going to give you about $80,000 a year, what can you even spend that on?!

Him: Oh we have our eye on this relaxing retirement place with a lake and nice garden.


I mean, he's doing better than most and seems fairly financially savvy but ffs. Retire at 58 to grow fat and old in a quasi-retirement home?! Damn.

I'm not sure what's wrong with this.  He's doing better than a real big majority out there and has his head on right.  If he can live w/in his means, he can live w/in his means.  If MMM had a lot of money, I'm sure he'd up his lifestyle a bit to adjust.

Plus 58 is a good age to retire for nonMMM. I wouldn't classify the guy as anti-Mustachian.

[MgoSam]

I have one that's a little sad.

A couple at work, both have decent paying positions. He has a degree in finance and seems savvy towards investing and the like. He once mentioned he bought $30,000 of gold and it went up to 4x that amount (not an indicator of much at all, I know, but still, he's into investing which is more than many). I've broached the topic of retirement with him before, as he seemed the only one at work who might get it. This time we talked and it went something like this:

Me: You wear that same tie every day?

Him: Yep! I have a row of ties in my cupboard and use one each year. I then cut it up and it's my count down to retirement!

Me: Huh, interesting! How many ties do you have left?? (Note - The guy is about 38)

Him: About 20. That should do it. We want over $2m for retirement.

Me: But... but... that's ages away! That's going to give you about $80,000 a year, what can you even spend that on?!

Him: Oh we have our eye on this relaxing retirement place with a lake and nice garden.


I mean, he's doing better than most and seems fairly financially savvy but ffs. Retire at 58 to grow fat and old in a quasi-retirement home?! Damn.

I'm not sure what's wrong with this.  He's doing better than a real big majority out there and has his head on right.  If he can live w/in his means, he can live w/in his means.  If MMM had a lot of money, I'm sure he'd up his lifestyle a bit to adjust.

Plus 58 is a good age to retire for nonMMM. I wouldn't classify the guy as anti-Mustachian.

I concur, not everyone wants to retire as early as we do. Other people have other priorities.

[Threshkin]

...snip...
Him: About 20. That should do it. We want over $2m for retirement.

Me: But... but... that's ages away! That's going to give you about $80,000 a year, what can you even spend that on?!
...snip...

In 20 years $80K a year will not be much to live on.  Inflation hurts.....

[u-238]

Doesn't bicycle, doesn't run, doesn't walk walk (if he can ride...)

;)

Wealth beyond measure, outlander.

[horsepoor]

If MMM had a lot of money, I'm sure he'd up his lifestyle a bit to adjust.

MMM does have a lot of money.  He's addressed this in his blogs and his annual spending reports.  Even when they feel they're letting loose because they have no financial constraints, they spend ~$25K.  It appears that his stash continues to grow untouched while they live off profits from his side hustle/hobbies like this blog.

[Frugal Father]

So I am an external auditor working for one of the Big 4. As an incentive, if you get your CPA in the first year of working there you get a $5k bonus. So I was talking to one of our first year staff the other day, and she was telling me that several of her friends (also first years) were giving advice about the bonus. Specifically, they were saying how important it is to make sure you drop your 401k contribution to 0% for that paycheck and then immediately put it back to normal for the next paycheck so that you get as much of your bonus as possible. I just laughed and told her that if anything, she should increase her contribution percentage for that paycheck since you don't actually need any of it. Fortunately, she seemed to think her friends were being ridiculous, too...

[Tjat]

So I am an external auditor working for one of the Big 4. As an incentive, if you get your CPA in the first year of working there you get a $5k bonus. So I was talking to one of our first year staff the other day, and she was telling me that several of her friends (also first years) were giving advice about the bonus. Specifically, they were saying how important it is to make sure you drop your 401k contribution to 0% for that paycheck and then immediately put it back to normal for the next paycheck so that you get as much of your bonus as possible. I just laughed and told her that if anything, she should increase her contribution percentage for that paycheck since you don't actually need any of it. Fortunately, she seemed to think her friends were being ridiculous, too...

I admit that I do this come March (annual bonus). However, the reason is because my company doesn't true-up matching contributions so front-loading contributions is a major disadvantage.

[HairyUpperLip]

I'm not sure what's wrong with this.  He's doing better than a real big majority out there and has his head on right.  If he can live w/in his means, he can live w/in his means.  If MMM had a lot of money, I'm sure he'd up his lifestyle a bit to adjust.

Plus 58 is a good age to retire for nonMMM. I wouldn't classify the guy as anti-Mustachian.

lol.

[Stashaholic]

Whew, I waited until I read entire thread (skimmed several pages of foam) before I decided to post something on the topic, but that also means my info is now also months old lol.

CW1, ~55yo. who moved here from a city 3 hours away so he can be closer to his daughter, SIL, grand kids, basically family. Nice guy, but him and his family are like Murphy magnets. He's always missing work for all kinds of reasons. Car breaks down, everyone in the family gets a bug, house floods, house catches on fire, alarm didn't buzz, etc. Obviously that translates to less pay and more and more expenses. I feel bad for the guy but he misses so much work that we have to cover for him and it gets annoying. He does come in sometimes on weekends to try and catch up so that helps.

He's living with daughter, grand kids and SIL, and his commute to work is over 1.5hrs so he decided to rent an apartment much closer. Well that didn't last long because it's too much and couldn't afford it so he moved back in with them and is back to driving 1.5hrs each way.

He wants to sell his house from the other city and needed to make repairs and get rid of things, but can't afford it. Then a few months ago the roof got damaged from a storm, then a small fire broke out in the garage and in both instances he had to borrow money to cover the cost before insurance paid (about 2-3k each time minus deductible).

Recently heard; after being here 2yrs and have almost completely settled in, his daughter and family wants to move back to the city where he moved from! But the kicker is, they can't do it unless he helps pay for a bigger house that they want to build from scratch. He agreed, but he hasn't sold his old house yet so they are scrambling now to sell that sooner so whatever they get (very little I'm guessing after so many cash out refi) can be used for a down payment. Even worse, he says when that happens, he will continue to stay here (3 hrs away) so he will also be renting an apartment while also helping pay for the new house!

---------

CW2 doesn't like inconveniences and a little hassle. He bought a new $35k car online with no haggling because he doesn't want the hassle. He likes to buy supplies or equipment for work, sometimes hundreds of $ a year that is reimbursable, but refuses to fill out a simple 1 min. paperwork to do it. I've tried convincing him but he just gets upset. The last time this happened I asked if he could buy me some things without having to pay him back, he just wandered off.

He also had a couple of friends on his cell plan that he continued to pay for hundreds/mo. even after they have already gotten their own plan. He said he didn't want to spend time changing his plan. He buys tons of toys and gadgets that aren't useful or just get stored. Like a $400 3d printer that he printed a couple things and no longer uses.

He's single and renting a 3 bedroom town home from a friend for over 10 yrs. He can rent something cheaper, but at least the friend has not raised rent in all those years. I suggested why not offer to buy it since it's actually quite affordable and he is obviously not leaving, but he is not interested in talking about it to him (his friend lives out of the country btw and just hung on to the property because he obviously found a cash cow).

[mm1970]

I have one that's a little sad.

A couple at work, both have decent paying positions. He has a degree in finance and seems savvy towards investing and the like. He once mentioned he bought $30,000 of gold and it went up to 4x that amount (not an indicator of much at all, I know, but still, he's into investing which is more than many). I've broached the topic of retirement with him before, as he seemed the only one at work who might get it. This time we talked and it went something like this:

Me: You wear that same tie every day?

Him: Yep! I have a row of ties in my cupboard and use one each year. I then cut it up and it's my count down to retirement!

Me: Huh, interesting! How many ties do you have left?? (Note - The guy is about 38)

Him: About 20. That should do it. We want over $2m for retirement.

Me: But... but... that's ages away! That's going to give you about $80,000 a year, what can you even spend that on?!

Him: Oh we have our eye on this relaxing retirement place with a lake and nice garden.


I mean, he's doing better than most and seems fairly financially savvy but ffs. Retire at 58 to grow fat and old in a quasi-retirement home?! Damn.

I like the tie thing.

I don't see 58 as old.  I work with many guys who are 58-62 and still fit and trim and with it.  And good at their jobs (and financially stable enough to quit if they wanted.)

Shoot, I'll still have a kid in HS when I'm 58.

[jorjor]

I have one that's a little sad.

A couple at work, both have decent paying positions. He has a degree in finance and seems savvy towards investing and the like. He once mentioned he bought $30,000 of gold and it went up to 4x that amount (not an indicator of much at all, I know, but still, he's into investing which is more than many). I've broached the topic of retirement with him before, as he seemed the only one at work who might get it. This time we talked and it went something like this:

Me: You wear that same tie every day?

Him: Yep! I have a row of ties in my cupboard and use one each year. I then cut it up and it's my count down to retirement!

Me: Huh, interesting! How many ties do you have left?? (Note - The guy is about 38)

Him: About 20. That should do it. We want over $2m for retirement.

Me: But... but... that's ages away! That's going to give you about $80,000 a year, what can you even spend that on?!

Him: Oh we have our eye on this relaxing retirement place with a lake and nice garden.


I mean, he's doing better than most and seems fairly financially savvy but ffs. Retire at 58 to grow fat and old in a quasi-retirement home?! Damn.

Reminds me of a conversation I had a couple months ago with a co-worker. She is lower 30s. Their quite expensive house will be paid off in a year or two. They are quite frugal. She would agree with a lot of the things on this site. We've had discussions about frugality and early retirement before.

CW: I work hard so that I can retire as soon as possible.

Me: That is my goal as well. Life is too short to work.

CW: What do you think you need to retire?

Me: Idk, a couple million and many who want to retire early would think that's too much.

CW: WHAT? I'm aiming for like $12M!

Conversation then went towards why she thinks she NEEDS that much. It boiled down to a lot of risk aversion. I tried to advance the idea that spending that much would be tough, especially since they live very frugally now. Oh well. I'll still keep having good chats with her even if our feelings on what it takes to FIRE are different.

[MgoSam]

I have one that's a little sad.

A couple at work, both have decent paying positions. He has a degree in finance and seems savvy towards investing and the like. He once mentioned he bought $30,000 of gold and it went up to 4x that amount (not an indicator of much at all, I know, but still, he's into investing which is more than many). I've broached the topic of retirement with him before, as he seemed the only one at work who might get it. This time we talked and it went something like this:

Me: You wear that same tie every day?

Him: Yep! I have a row of ties in my cupboard and use one each year. I then cut it up and it's my count down to retirement!

Me: Huh, interesting! How many ties do you have left?? (Note - The guy is about 38)

Him: About 20. That should do it. We want over $2m for retirement.

Me: But... but... that's ages away! That's going to give you about $80,000 a year, what can you even spend that on?!

Him: Oh we have our eye on this relaxing retirement place with a lake and nice garden.


I mean, he's doing better than most and seems fairly financially savvy but ffs. Retire at 58 to grow fat and old in a quasi-retirement home?! Damn.

Reminds me of a conversation I had a couple months ago with a co-worker. She is lower 30s. Their quite expensive house will be paid off in a year or two. They are quite frugal. She would agree with a lot of the things on this site. We've had discussions about frugality and early retirement before.

CW: I work hard so that I can retire as soon as possible.

Me: That is my goal as well. Life is too short to work.

CW: What do you think you need to retire?

Me: Idk, a couple million and many who want to retire early would think that's too much.

CW: WHAT? I'm aiming for like $12M!

Conversation then went towards why she thinks she NEEDS that much. It boiled down to a lot of risk aversion. I tried to advance the idea that spending that much would be tough, especially since they live very frugally now. Oh well. I'll still keep having good chats with her even if our feelings on what it takes to FIRE are different.

Not to be critical, but I'm curious as to why you think you would need a couple million to retire early?

[Reynold]

I always go with our lowest coverage plan. About 3 months after joining my current company and starting on their insurance, my wife had an emergency room visit that lead to an overnight stay at the hospital. The total bill came out to over $25k, but after insurance covered it we only owed a little under $500. I don't understand somebody that is willing to spend 2-300 per pay period on insurance, when my policy is only $35 out of each check and the coverage is still that good.

A couple of years ago our highest price plan was something like $800/month out of pocket, vs. the "cheap" plan we picked which was more like $80/month.  The main difference was in coverage of out-of-network costs, but it was pretty easy to calculate that we'd need to spend something around $200k in out-of-network health care costs to make up for paying ~$8600 more in premiums.  Ironically, if you then spent much more, you hit expense caps on either plan, so there was a tiny window where you could save a few hundred dollars. 

My boss's boss, a VP, technical, and very smart, was complaining when they took away the high priced plan because he wanted to have "the best coverage", though he admitted he had never done the math.  He likes toys, though, he just bought an Amazon Alexa (voice activated Siri-like thing) for the office, in addition to one at home.  He has also commented that he can't imagine anyone wanting to retire early, what would they do? :)

[jorjor]

Not to be critical, but I'm curious as to why you think you would need a couple million to retire early?

Nah, that's fine. I assume you mean "Why do you think you need that much?" My calculations have come out anywhere between much less than that and somewhat less than that based on assumptions for extra discretionary income, kids, withdrawal rate, etc. I didn't want to come out and quite make that proclamation to a co-worker since I had an idea of her risk aversion before. Slowly ease her into the idea, and what not.

My wife and I are young (I'm 27). We are just starting out in a lot of ways. New house, no kids yet, just started following this blog/forum in the last 6 months or so. We're getting a feel for where we can cut expenses and such. Needing $2M is probably overstating it, especially if we were to pick up a side hustle(s) after working. I like what I'm doing now. As things progress, I plan to react and adjust projections accordingly. When we are FI, we can make that decision as to whether it's also time to RE.

It's also partially that I'm an actuary and we seem to shift towards the risk averse side since risk aversion has been mostly beaten into us through training, education, and daily work.

[Vertical Mode]

I have one that's a little sad.

A couple at work, both have decent paying positions. He has a degree in finance and seems savvy towards investing and the like. He once mentioned he bought $30,000 of gold and it went up to 4x that amount (not an indicator of much at all, I know, but still, he's into investing which is more than many). I've broached the topic of retirement with him before, as he seemed the only one at work who might get it. This time we talked and it went something like this:

Me: You wear that same tie every day?

Him: Yep! I have a row of ties in my cupboard and use one each year. I then cut it up and it's my count down to retirement!

Me: Huh, interesting! How many ties do you have left?? (Note - The guy is about 38)

Him: About 20. That should do it. We want over $2m for retirement.

Me: But... but... that's ages away! That's going to give you about $80,000 a year, what can you even spend that on?!

Him: Oh we have our eye on this relaxing retirement place with a lake and nice garden.


I mean, he's doing better than most and seems fairly financially savvy but ffs. Retire at 58 to grow fat and old in a quasi-retirement home?! Damn.

Whatever it takes to stay motivated, I guess. Personally, I'd find a consignment shop and sell the ties to future Mustachians instead ;-)

There's a thread going on how much people were planning to accumulate before pulling the plug, it seems to skew a little more conservative than I might have guessed initially:

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-is-your-target-amount/

[dragoncar]

I have one that's a little sad.

A couple at work, both have decent paying positions. He has a degree in finance and seems savvy towards investing and the like. He once mentioned he bought $30,000 of gold and it went up to 4x that amount (not an indicator of much at all, I know, but still, he's into investing which is more than many). I've broached the topic of retirement with him before, as he seemed the only one at work who might get it. This time we talked and it went something like this:

Me: You wear that same tie every day?

Him: Yep! I have a row of ties in my cupboard and use one each year. I then cut it up and it's my count down to retirement!

Me: Huh, interesting! How many ties do you have left?? (Note - The guy is about 38)

Him: About 20. That should do it. We want over $2m for retirement.

Me: But... but... that's ages away! That's going to give you about $80,000 a year, what can you even spend that on?!

Him: Oh we have our eye on this relaxing retirement place with a lake and nice garden.


I mean, he's doing better than most and seems fairly financially savvy but ffs. Retire at 58 to grow fat and old in a quasi-retirement home?! Damn.

Whatever it takes to stay motivated, I guess. Personally, I'd find a consignment shop and sell the ties to future Mustachians instead ;-)

There's a thread going on how much people were planning to accumulate before pulling the plug, it seems to skew a little more conservative than I might have guessed initially:

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-is-your-target-amount/

I actually have the same tie system.  Here's the collection I'm working through:

[MgoSam]

Not to be critical, but I'm curious as to why you think you would need a couple million to retire early?

Nah, that's fine. I assume you mean "Why do you think you need that much?" My calculations have come out anywhere between much less than that and somewhat less than that based on assumptions for extra discretionary income, kids, withdrawal rate, etc. I didn't want to come out and quite make that proclamation to a co-worker since I had an idea of her risk aversion before. Slowly ease her into the idea, and what not.

My wife and I are young (I'm 27). We are just starting out in a lot of ways. New house, no kids yet, just started following this blog/forum in the last 6 months or so. We're getting a feel for where we can cut expenses and such. Needing $2M is probably overstating it, especially if we were to pick up a side hustle(s) after working. I like what I'm doing now. As things progress, I plan to react and adjust projections accordingly. When we are FI, we can make that decision as to whether it's also time to RE.

It's also partially that I'm an actuary and we seem to shift towards the risk averse side since risk aversion has been mostly beaten into us through training, education, and daily work.

Fair enough. That's awesome that you're an actuary, how far have you progressed through them tests?

[jorjor]

Not to be critical, but I'm curious as to why you think you would need a couple million to retire early?

Nah, that's fine. I assume you mean "Why do you think you need that much?" My calculations have come out anywhere between much less than that and somewhat less than that based on assumptions for extra discretionary income, kids, withdrawal rate, etc. I didn't want to come out and quite make that proclamation to a co-worker since I had an idea of her risk aversion before. Slowly ease her into the idea, and what not.

My wife and I are young (I'm 27). We are just starting out in a lot of ways. New house, no kids yet, just started following this blog/forum in the last 6 months or so. We're getting a feel for where we can cut expenses and such. Needing $2M is probably overstating it, especially if we were to pick up a side hustle(s) after working. I like what I'm doing now. As things progress, I plan to react and adjust projections accordingly. When we are FI, we can make that decision as to whether it's also time to RE.

It's also partially that I'm an actuary and we seem to shift towards the risk averse side since risk aversion has been mostly beaten into us through training, education, and daily work.

Fair enough. That's awesome that you're an actuary, how far have you progressed through them tests?

I'm done. I finished a few years ago. I started in college because I knew I wanted to move to my current location and a professor convinced me if I could pass exams I could get a job. After I graduated, I was in "get this done as soon as possible so I can move on with my life" mode so I rushed to get the rest done over the next two years. Things are much better now post-studying.

[MgoSam]

Not to be critical, but I'm curious as to why you think you would need a couple million to retire early?

Nah, that's fine. I assume you mean "Why do you think you need that much?" My calculations have come out anywhere between much less than that and somewhat less than that based on assumptions for extra discretionary income, kids, withdrawal rate, etc. I didn't want to come out and quite make that proclamation to a co-worker since I had an idea of her risk aversion before. Slowly ease her into the idea, and what not.

My wife and I are young (I'm 27). We are just starting out in a lot of ways. New house, no kids yet, just started following this blog/forum in the last 6 months or so. We're getting a feel for where we can cut expenses and such. Needing $2M is probably overstating it, especially if we were to pick up a side hustle(s) after working. I like what I'm doing now. As things progress, I plan to react and adjust projections accordingly. When we are FI, we can make that decision as to whether it's also time to RE.

It's also partially that I'm an actuary and we seem to shift towards the risk averse side since risk aversion has been mostly beaten into us through training, education, and daily work.

Fair enough. That's awesome that you're an actuary, how far have you progressed through them tests?

I'm done. I finished a few years ago. I started in college because I knew I wanted to move to my current location and a professor convinced me if I could pass exams I could get a job. After I graduated, I was in "get this done as soon as possible so I can move on with my life" mode so I rushed to get the rest done over the next two years. Things are much better now post-studying.

Nice, congrats! Are the less than 40 hour work weeks true?

[JoeBlow]

Small thing, grating on me.

In work everyone has reusable cups, awesome idea as it saves the environment and you save 50c every time you buy a coffee (don't worry I squashed that habit upon stumbling onto MMM). Everyone has these cups: www.keepcup.com and I do too, however my sister in law's work got free cups that are in a blue and black and not the "fancy" multicoloured ones and she snagged one for me of THE SAME BRAND, but blue and black.

CW - You need a new cup
Me - Why? It's same brand but my one is dull colours
CW - It's dull, just buy a new cup, you need a new cup
Me - Um, no
CW - They are only $13 NZ (or something like that)
Me - Okay

A week later...

CW - Have you not bought a new cup yet?
Me - No
CW - Buy a new cup, you need a new cup
Me - I'm probably not going to do that

A week later... you get where this is going...

I DO NOT NEED A NEW CUP. My cup is perfectly fine and even if it wasn't, I have other thermal cups. I will NOT be buying a new cup!!!

I feel like the drink and drugs advert - Just say no. Do not give in to peer pressure!!

Just buy the cup man. All your friends have one. One won't hurt, it'll help you relax.
You too good to buy a cup like the rest of us? Cup chicken? Bwok bwok bwok.....

I'm now waiting to be told how all the cool kids are doing it...

Is it wrong that I'm now online "designing my own KeepCup"?  ;-)  (But not buying -- just designing.)

If these thing last more than a couple of years, I could see spending $9 on one.  The ones I buy for $6 seem to break in one way or another after about a year.

[jorjor]

Not to be critical, but I'm curious as to why you think you would need a couple million to retire early?

Nah, that's fine. I assume you mean "Why do you think you need that much?" My calculations have come out anywhere between much less than that and somewhat less than that based on assumptions for extra discretionary income, kids, withdrawal rate, etc. I didn't want to come out and quite make that proclamation to a co-worker since I had an idea of her risk aversion before. Slowly ease her into the idea, and what not.

My wife and I are young (I'm 27). We are just starting out in a lot of ways. New house, no kids yet, just started following this blog/forum in the last 6 months or so. We're getting a feel for where we can cut expenses and such. Needing $2M is probably overstating it, especially if we were to pick up a side hustle(s) after working. I like what I'm doing now. As things progress, I plan to react and adjust projections accordingly. When we are FI, we can make that decision as to whether it's also time to RE.

It's also partially that I'm an actuary and we seem to shift towards the risk averse side since risk aversion has been mostly beaten into us through training, education, and daily work.

Fair enough. That's awesome that you're an actuary, how far have you progressed through them tests?

I'm done. I finished a few years ago. I started in college because I knew I wanted to move to my current location and a professor convinced me if I could pass exams I could get a job. After I graduated, I was in "get this done as soon as possible so I can move on with my life" mode so I rushed to get the rest done over the next two years. Things are much better now post-studying.

Nice, congrats! Are the less than 40 hour work weeks true?

For many, yes. For me, not so much. I work in consulting, so I essentially work with lots of different insurers, hospitals, employers, etc. Very fun to see things from different angles, but it means you are sometimes at the mercy of what a client needs (and the client doesn't ask the other client if it's cool that they take some of my time). Even then, hours aren't nearly like management consulting or things like that. 40-50 hours average. I've talked to my boss about pulling back some, because this year was closer to 50 due to some weirdness and I wasn't much of a fan of that.

[Squirrel away]

CW: What do you think you need to retire?

Me: Idk, a couple million and many who want to retire early would think that's too much.

CW: WHAT? I'm aiming for like $12M!

$12M! OMG.

[GuitarStv]

CW: What do you think you need to retire?

Me: Idk, a couple million and many who want to retire early would think that's too much.

CW: WHAT? I'm aiming for like $12M!

$12M! OMG.

Hmm . . . safe withdrawal limit of just under 500,000 a year.  I might be able to live on that in retirement.

[LifeAtTheLodgeHouse]

Small thing, grating on me.

In work everyone has reusable cups, awesome idea as it saves the environment and you save 50c every time you buy a coffee (don't worry I squashed that habit upon stumbling onto MMM). Everyone has these cups: www.keepcup.com and I do too, however my sister in law's work got free cups that are in a blue and black and not the "fancy" multicoloured ones and she snagged one for me of THE SAME BRAND, but blue and black.

CW - You need a new cup
Me - Why? It's same brand but my one is dull colours
CW - It's dull, just buy a new cup, you need a new cup
Me - Um, no
CW - They are only $13 NZ (or something like that)
Me - Okay

A week later...

CW - Have you not bought a new cup yet?
Me - No
CW - Buy a new cup, you need a new cup
Me - I'm probably not going to do that

A week later... you get where this is going...

I DO NOT NEED A NEW CUP. My cup is perfectly fine and even if it wasn't, I have other thermal cups. I will NOT be buying a new cup!!!

I feel like the drink and drugs advert - Just say no. Do not give in to peer pressure!!

Just buy the cup man. All your friends have one. One won't hurt, it'll help you relax.
You too good to buy a cup like the rest of us? Cup chicken? Bwok bwok bwok.....

I'm now waiting to be told how all the cool kids are doing it...

Is it wrong that I'm now online "designing my own KeepCup"?  ;-)  (But not buying -- just designing.)

If these thing last more than a couple of years, I could see spending $9 on one.  The ones I buy for $6 seem to break in one way or another after about a year.

Agree. I bought a cool trendy one (back in the day) and it fell to bits. However I still have a Starbucks cup I was gifted 10 years ago that is going strong. So even if this cup dies, I won't be buying another one.

The new thing I am now getting pressured into (because there are 3 of them going) is a circuits group. I went along for the free class (because they booked me in and told me I was going and didn't want to let anyone down) and it is good, but we literally go to a free park and do circuits with no equipment, all body weight. It costs $250 NDZ or $165 USD for 10 classes. Now I enjoy exercising and I don't mind a class but $25 a class is never going to happen, especially when it is just my body weight I am using. If you bulk buy like 30 of them I can get it down to $18 or $16 a class.

I understand why other need to pay someone to make the commitment to go along, but I'm quite self motivated so I'm not paying $25 a class.

[Joggernot]

Small thing, grating on me.

In work everyone has reusable cups, awesome idea as it saves the environment and you save 50c every time you buy a coffee (don't worry I squashed that habit upon stumbling onto MMM). Everyone has these cups: www.keepcup.com and I do too, however my sister in law's work got free cups that are in a blue and black and not the "fancy" multicoloured ones and she snagged one for me of THE SAME BRAND, but blue and black.

CW - You need a new cup
Me - Why? It's same brand but my one is dull colours
CW - It's dull, just buy a new cup, you need a new cup
Me - Um, no
CW - They are only $13 NZ (or something like that)
Me - Okay

A week later...

CW - Have you not bought a new cup yet?
Me - No
CW - Buy a new cup, you need a new cup
Me - I'm probably not going to do that

A week later... you get where this is going...

I DO NOT NEED A NEW CUP. My cup is perfectly fine and even if it wasn't, I have other thermal cups. I will NOT be buying a new cup!!!

I feel like the drink and drugs advert - Just say no. Do not give in to peer pressure!!

Just buy the cup man. All your friends have one. One won't hurt, it'll help you relax.
You too good to buy a cup like the rest of us? Cup chicken? Bwok bwok bwok.....

I'm now waiting to be told how all the cool kids are doing it...

Is it wrong that I'm now online "designing my own KeepCup"?  ;-)  (But not buying -- just designing.)

If these thing last more than a couple of years, I could see spending $9 on one.  The ones I buy for $6 seem to break in one way or another after about a year.

Agree. I bought a cool trendy one (back in the day) and it fell to bits. However I still have a Starbucks cup I was gifted 10 years ago that is going strong. So even if this cup dies, I won't be buying another one.

I'm using a used Starbucks cup that I bought for $1 at a garage sale last year.  Best buy I've made in a long time.

[shanghaiMMM]

I have one that's a little sad.

A couple at work, both have decent paying positions. He has a degree in finance and seems savvy towards investing and the like. He once mentioned he bought $30,000 of gold and it went up to 4x that amount (not an indicator of much at all, I know, but still, he's into investing which is more than many). I've broached the topic of retirement with him before, as he seemed the only one at work who might get it. This time we talked and it went something like this:

Me: You wear that same tie every day?

Him: Yep! I have a row of ties in my cupboard and use one each year. I then cut it up and it's my count down to retirement!

Me: Huh, interesting! How many ties do you have left?? (Note - The guy is about 38)

Him: About 20. That should do it. We want over $2m for retirement.

Me: But... but... that's ages away! That's going to give you about $80,000 a year, what can you even spend that on?!

Him: Oh we have our eye on this relaxing retirement place with a lake and nice garden.


I mean, he's doing better than most and seems fairly financially savvy but ffs. Retire at 58 to grow fat and old in a quasi-retirement home?! Damn.

I'm not sure what's wrong with this.  He's doing better than a real big majority out there and has his head on right.  If he can live w/in his means, he can live w/in his means.  If MMM had a lot of money, I'm sure he'd up his lifestyle a bit to adjust.

Plus 58 is a good age to retire for nonMMM. I wouldn't classify the guy as anti-Mustachian.

I concur, not everyone wants to retire as early as we do. Other people have other priorities.

Yeah fair enough, I thought I had hinted I thought he was still doing quite well in comparison to many people, perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

And I definitely like the tie idea too!

[DutchGirl]

Colleague of mine, in July:

"Yes, I invested some money. I don't know where exactly, I don't know what I invested in, and I don't know the current value. But I will just ignore it and then in the future it will turn out to have grown wildly!"

Same colleague, last week:
"Oh, dear, I can't remember whether or not I've left the gas on at home. And I can't go back home now that I'm at work. I realized when I was driving here, and I thought about what I would miss if my house exploded. Well, replacing the furniture would cost a few bucks. No, I don't have renter's insurance. I cancelled it a while back when cutting costs."

(She ended up phoning her neighbor who could go and check on her gas; it was off, luckily, so she still has a house).

[MgoSam]

Colleague of mine, in July:

"Yes, I invested some money. I don't know where exactly, I don't know what I invested in, and I don't know the current value. But I will just ignore it and then in the future it will turn out to have grown wildly!"

Step 1. Invest
Step 2. Forget about what you invested
Step 3. ???????
Step 4 .PROFIT!

[edmundblackadder]

That's ....kind of my strategy?

1. Dump money into Vanguard index funds.
2. Ignore news about the stock market for ten-fifteen years so I don't panic.
3. Profit!

[arebelspy]

Yeah, but you know where it is and what it's invested in. :)

Your plan is much more solid.