Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 13269277 times)

notquitefrugal

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10800 on: October 15, 2015, 08:08:45 PM »
Man, I think a lot of people that save even 99% of their salary probably have increased in waist size too much to keep their high school belts.

My belts still fit (although on different notches) but the pants on my suits are now tight. Never had a problem until I took a new job in a larger city with lots of good restaurants. Also, there are often sugary snacks on the table in the break room. Willpower is truly a finite thing...

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10801 on: October 16, 2015, 05:16:40 AM »
Willpower is truly a finite thing...
Oh yes, it is! Your willpower can get depleted by small things so that you dont have any left for gib things, too. That is why poor people often have no willpower - all that thinking about how to get work, to buy this little thing or not, how to get the kids to school... they use up half the willpower a company CEO has just by shopping.

But willpower also behaves like a muscle, you can train it.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10802 on: October 16, 2015, 07:52:20 AM »
My everyday soft-shell Marmot jacket is probably close to 10 years old, and one of the pit zippers is falling apart. This means that the underside of the armpit will now be completely open unless I come up with some sort of fix.  Or I could just get a new coat for $200, but shoot, the rest of the coat is in pretty good shape. I was talking with a coworker/superior about it, and she said she didn't even own clothing that is ten years old.  I'm thinking really?  Not even old jeans?

I realized that the belt I'm wearing today is older than our newest employee, a recent college graduate.  I'm 41, and I bought this belt when I was in high school.

I'm currently wearing a 100+ year old belt that belonged to my great grandfather.  Of course my grandfather had to replace the buckle.  And my father replaced the leather.  Still looks pretty good for its age

FoodieCycles

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10803 on: October 16, 2015, 07:59:46 AM »
I work with mostly Women and hearing them talk about material items is quite amusing. Best comment so far: "I get 3 designer dresses each month for only $100. I just wear them and send them back... each month it charges me automatically and they send me 3 dresses..."

Ummm- Just me or is this absolutely insane? 1,200$ a year on dresses you don't even get to keep?!

slugline

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10804 on: October 16, 2015, 08:30:36 AM »
I work with mostly Women and hearing them talk about material items is quite amusing. Best comment so far: "I get 3 designer dresses each month for only $100. I just wear them and send them back... each month it charges me automatically and they send me 3 dresses..."

Ummm- Just me or is this absolutely insane? 1,200$ a year on dresses you don't even get to keep?!

Well, considering the cost of upgrading one's housing to get more closet space to accommodate 36 new dresses a year, it sounds sane in comparison!

Avidconsumer

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10805 on: October 16, 2015, 09:46:30 AM »
Buffalo David Bitton. They do imbetween sizes(odd numbers on waist for example) and they do not shrink like every other brand I've tried. I've gone through so many jeans from shrinkage. I don't re-wear dirty clothes. I've gotten too used to clean clothes all the time. After a while you can tell the difference.

nawhite

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10806 on: October 16, 2015, 10:25:39 AM »
I don't re-wear dirty clothes. I've gotten too used to clean clothes all the time. After a while you can tell the difference.

Wait, what? Underwear and t-shirts sure, but what about jeans? Good denim is actually meant to be washed as little as possible. The less you wash it the longer it lasts. Not to mention the cost! Washing clothes is ridiculously expensive even if you do it at home. At home, drying a load of clothes costs $1-$3 per load and washing costs another $1 per load in water and gas to heat the water and electricity to spin the tank. Maybe if you worked at a Zoo or a preschool I would understand the "wash ever day" mindset, but my jeans usually last a week minimum without a wash.

Avidconsumer

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10807 on: October 16, 2015, 10:35:49 AM »
Yea it's money well spent as far as I'm concerned. I'd forego a lot of luxuries to have clean clothes, towels, bed sheets.

bsmith

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10808 on: October 16, 2015, 10:38:57 AM »
Quote
I don't re-wear dirty clothes. I've gotten too used to clean clothes all the time. After a while you can tell the difference.

Facepunch for hedonic adaptation. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/22/what-is-hedonic-adaptation-and-how-can-it-turn-you-into-a-sukka/

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10809 on: October 16, 2015, 11:07:46 AM »

My father still regularly wears the blazer he got for a high school graduation present. He attended his fiftieth reunion this summer. He stopped growing at sixteen due to an illness or it probably wouldn't fit; most men I know grew more after finishing high school.
After my high school prom, the tuxedo rental shop gave me the option of buying the tuxedo for an extra $55.  I've had several occasions to wear that tux since, including our wedding.

Kitsunegari

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10810 on: October 16, 2015, 11:49:11 AM »
May I add a non-money related one?

Coworker sees me pouring in my coffee milk from a recycled juice bottle, inquires about it, and I explain him I ain't drinking that dairy-fluff stuff they give for free, because it's not actual milk and I prefer knowing what I drink. He looks conspiratorially at me and asks me "Is it your own milk?". The guy next to me almost spit his coffee. (And no, I'm not lactating)

bsmith

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10811 on: October 16, 2015, 11:53:59 AM »
Quote
May I add a non-money related one?

Coworker sees me pouring in my coffee milk from a recycled juice bottle, inquires about it, and I explain him I ain't drinking that dairy-fluff stuff they give for free, because it's not actual milk and I prefer knowing what I drink. He looks conspiratorially at me and asks me "Is it your own milk?". The guy next to me almost spit his coffee. (And no, I'm not lactating)


That's sexual harassment.

Avidconsumer

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10812 on: October 16, 2015, 11:54:50 AM »
Quote
I don't re-wear dirty clothes. I've gotten too used to clean clothes all the time. After a while you can tell the difference.

Facepunch for hedonic adaptation. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/22/what-is-hedonic-adaptation-and-how-can-it-turn-you-into-a-sukka/

It's just a matter of opinion. To me the cost is negligible compared to the benefit. Living in a house is hedonic in that case. Everyone's deserves facepunches. Showering is hedonic. We don't need to shower that often. Having clean clothes is the same as showering to me.

We sweat 0.8-1.4 liters a day and lose 40,000 skin cells, which is nice. I prefer my jeans a few pounds lighter I guess.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 11:58:14 AM by Avidconsumer »

Kitsunegari

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10813 on: October 16, 2015, 11:58:26 AM »
Quote
May I add a non-money related one?

Coworker sees me pouring in my coffee milk from a recycled juice bottle, inquires about it, and I explain him I ain't drinking that dairy-fluff stuff they give for free, because it's not actual milk and I prefer knowing what I drink. He looks conspiratorially at me and asks me "Is it your own milk?". The guy next to me almost spit his coffee. (And no, I'm not lactating)


That's sexual harassment.

Nah, the guy is gay, and from a culture that didn't explain him much about female anatomy. He just has no clue how the female body works.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10814 on: October 16, 2015, 12:27:54 PM »
If I heard that I would need to take a walk around the block muttering "what the fuck?" to myself over and over. You are a truly tolerant person to not have said "what is wrong with you?"

maco

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10815 on: October 16, 2015, 12:31:26 PM »
Quote
May I add a non-money related one?

Coworker sees me pouring in my coffee milk from a recycled juice bottle, inquires about it, and I explain him I ain't drinking that dairy-fluff stuff they give for free, because it's not actual milk and I prefer knowing what I drink. He looks conspiratorially at me and asks me "Is it your own milk?". The guy next to me almost spit his coffee. (And no, I'm not lactating)


That's sexual harassment.

Nah, the guy is gay, and from a culture that didn't explain him much about female anatomy. He just has no clue how the female body works.
That doesn't make it not sexual harassment. Gay men can absolutely sexually harass women, just like straight women can sexually harass women.

Kitsunegari

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10816 on: October 16, 2015, 12:34:38 PM »
If I heard that I would need to take a walk around the block muttering "what the fuck?" to myself over and over. You are a truly tolerant person to not have said "what is wrong with you?"

Well, a few months ago he ask me if during the period we see the egg that is dying, so I know he's a bit ignorant on some regards.
This is why we need sex ed in schools, people!

Kitsunegari

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10817 on: October 16, 2015, 12:37:56 PM »
Quote
May I add a non-money related one?

Coworker sees me pouring in my coffee milk from a recycled juice bottle, inquires about it, and I explain him I ain't drinking that dairy-fluff stuff they give for free, because it's not actual milk and I prefer knowing what I drink. He looks conspiratorially at me and asks me "Is it your own milk?". The guy next to me almost spit his coffee. (And no, I'm not lactating)


That's sexual harassment.

Nah, the guy is gay, and from a culture that didn't explain him much about female anatomy. He just has no clue how the female body works.
That doesn't make it not sexual harassment. Gay men can absolutely sexually harass women, just like straight women can sexually harass women.

He was not intimidating or offensive. I reconize gay people can harrass straight people of same or opposite gender, but this was not the case.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10818 on: October 16, 2015, 01:09:48 PM »
Willpower is truly a finite thing...
Oh yes, it is! Your willpower can get depleted by small things so that you dont have any left for gib things, too. That is why poor people often have no willpower - all that thinking about how to get work, to buy this little thing or not, how to get the kids to school... they use up half the willpower a company CEO has just by shopping.

But willpower also behaves like a muscle, you can train it.
I realized this on vacation staying with family.  Fridges full of soda, beer, sugary snacks, chips, candy.

I put as much stuff away as I could.

But seriously, I hadn't realized how much of my at home willpower is because I just don't have that stuff around.

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10819 on: October 16, 2015, 01:22:42 PM »
Willpower is truly a finite thing...
Oh yes, it is! Your willpower can get depleted by small things so that you dont have any left for gib things, too. That is why poor people often have no willpower - all that thinking about how to get work, to buy this little thing or not, how to get the kids to school... they use up half the willpower a company CEO has just by shopping.

But willpower also behaves like a muscle, you can train it.
It takes a little willpower to not buy it at the store, but a lot of willpower not to eat it once it's been bought.  Once it's home, I've already eaten it in my mind.
I realized this on vacation staying with family.  Fridges full of soda, beer, sugary snacks, chips, candy.

I put as much stuff away as I could.

But seriously, I hadn't realized how much of my at home willpower is because I just don't have that stuff around.

Sam E

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10820 on: October 17, 2015, 06:32:55 AM »
Quote
May I add a non-money related one?

Coworker sees me pouring in my coffee milk from a recycled juice bottle, inquires about it, and I explain him I ain't drinking that dairy-fluff stuff they give for free, because it's not actual milk and I prefer knowing what I drink. He looks conspiratorially at me and asks me "Is it your own milk?". The guy next to me almost spit his coffee. (And no, I'm not lactating)


That's sexual harassment.

Nah, the guy is gay, and from a culture that didn't explain him much about female anatomy. He just has no clue how the female body works.
That doesn't make it not sexual harassment. Gay men can absolutely sexually harass women, just like straight women can sexually harass women.

Harassment is always in the eye of the beholder. If she didn't feel harassed, it wasn't harassment. There's no point in trying to convince someone to get offended at something that didn't offend them.

maco

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10821 on: October 17, 2015, 08:04:31 AM »
Quote
May I add a non-money related one?

Coworker sees me pouring in my coffee milk from a recycled juice bottle, inquires about it, and I explain him I ain't drinking that dairy-fluff stuff they give for free, because it's not actual milk and I prefer knowing what I drink. He looks conspiratorially at me and asks me "Is it your own milk?". The guy next to me almost spit his coffee. (And no, I'm not lactating)


That's sexual harassment.

Nah, the guy is gay, and from a culture that didn't explain him much about female anatomy. He just has no clue how the female body works.
That doesn't make it not sexual harassment. Gay men can absolutely sexually harass women, just like straight women can sexually harass women.

Harassment is always in the eye of the beholder. If she didn't feel harassed, it wasn't harassment. There's no point in trying to convince someone to get offended at something that didn't offend them.
Just in case she was offended at the time and was then trying to rationalize it away after. Rationalizing rape away is common; why wouldn't it be for harassment?

maco

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10822 on: October 17, 2015, 08:05:48 AM »
Willpower is truly a finite thing...
Oh yes, it is! Your willpower can get depleted by small things so that you dont have any left for gib things, too. That is why poor people often have no willpower - all that thinking about how to get work, to buy this little thing or not, how to get the kids to school... they use up half the willpower a company CEO has just by shopping.

But willpower also behaves like a muscle, you can train it.
I realized this on vacation staying with family.  Fridges full of soda, beer, sugary snacks, chips, candy.

I put as much stuff away as I could.

But seriously, I hadn't realized how much of my at home willpower is because I just don't have that stuff around.
I keep trying to explain this to the other members of my household >_<

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10823 on: October 17, 2015, 01:42:58 PM »
Willpower is truly a finite thing...
Oh yes, it is! Your willpower can get depleted by small things so that you dont have any left for gib things, too. That is why poor people often have no willpower - all that thinking about how to get work, to buy this little thing or not, how to get the kids to school... they use up half the willpower a company CEO has just by shopping.

But willpower also behaves like a muscle, you can train it.
I realized this on vacation staying with family.  Fridges full of soda, beer, sugary snacks, chips, candy.

I put as much stuff away as I could.

But seriously, I hadn't realized how much of my at home willpower is because I just don't have that stuff around.
I keep trying to explain this to the other members of my household >_<

Never shop hungry

notquitefrugal

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10824 on: October 17, 2015, 07:47:03 PM »
But seriously, I hadn't realized how much of my at home willpower is because I just don't have that stuff around.
That's my strategy. I don't buy bread or sweets to keep in my house. I'll gladly buy them to leave at work or at other peoples' houses, though!

Seems to be a common strategy. A lady at work wanted a piece of caramel cake, so she made a caramel cake, ate one piece, and brought the rest to work the next day. It was gone in about an hour.

notquitefrugal

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10825 on: October 17, 2015, 07:53:03 PM »
In copier room...

CW: Damn, the machine is out of paper again, why doesn't anyone load this thing.

Opens a skein of paper, removes 3 sheets, puts them in the side feed, hits print, leaves open skein on top of printer and walks out.

Me: Cringe.

I'm not sure what the etiquette is on this. Our "big" copier holds 10+ reams of paper. Maybe 15. I reloaded it with about 4-5 reams the other day, not filling it full, because this is not a time of year when that machine sees a lot of volume. Also, I wasn't 100% sure which trays/stacks are supposed to have plain white paper. Should I have tried to fill everything with plain paper?

nobodyspecial

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10826 on: October 17, 2015, 08:41:29 PM »

I'm not sure what the etiquette is on this. Our "big" copier holds 10+ reams of paper. ...Should I have tried to fill everything with plain paper?
You should write "I will kill again !!!" in red lipstick on the back of a singe sheet in the middle of the stack - especially if you are a govt dept that sends out lots of PR stuff 

LeRainDrop

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10827 on: October 17, 2015, 11:06:58 PM »
I work with mostly Women and hearing them talk about material items is quite amusing. Best comment so far: "I get 3 designer dresses each month for only $100. I just wear them and send them back... each month it charges me automatically and they send me 3 dresses..."

Ummm- Just me or is this absolutely insane? 1,200$ a year on dresses you don't even get to keep?!

But . . . but . . . they are *designer*!!!

11ducks

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10828 on: October 18, 2015, 01:33:00 AM »

I'm not sure what the etiquette is on this. Our "big" copier holds 10+ reams of paper. ...Should I have tried to fill everything with plain paper?
You should write "I will kill again !!!" in red lipstick on the back of a singe sheet in the middle of the stack - especially if you are a govt dept that sends out lots of PR stuff

I am so doing this at work tomorrow...

pancakes

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10829 on: October 18, 2015, 04:36:58 AM »
I had the strangest conversation with someone at work. They run their own business and are working with us for a short time.

They flat our asked me what my salary is which is strange and I figured some kind of power game because they continued to drop into the conversation references to what other people earn and the fact that he earns more. When that figure got up to $250k I made a comment that if I earned that much I would only need to work for a few years.

This apparently wasn't something they had ever considered and I was delivered a lecture about how if you have money you just find new ways to spend it.

When I explained that I save half of what I earn (which is far less) he just stared at me in utter shock. He showed me pictures of his collection of classic cars thinking that I would be impressed and I responded that I didn't own a car because I didn't need one. Apparently this was also the first time he had encountered an adult who didn't own a car.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10830 on: October 18, 2015, 06:10:35 AM »
In copier room...

CW: Damn, the machine is out of paper again, why doesn't anyone load this thing.

Opens a skein of paper, removes 3 sheets, puts them in the side feed, hits print, leaves open skein on top of printer and walks out.

Me: Cringe.

I have a small office so it wouldn't be the same at a large corporation, but I believe that I or anyone else that saw this would ream the person for not putting in a full package of paper. I got on one of the guys from the warehouse for not refilling the napkin holder, just grabbed a single one. Just common courtesy.

markbike528CBX

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10831 on: October 18, 2015, 07:17:43 AM »

..... or anyone else that saw this would ream the person for not putting in a full package of paper......

Ream a person for not inserting a ream of paper?

I have no idea how anyone learns English (or American)  :-)

Tjat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10832 on: October 18, 2015, 07:20:10 AM »

It's just a matter of opinion. To me the cost is negligible compared to the benefit. Living in a house is hedonic in that case. Everyone's deserves facepunches. Showering is hedonic. We don't need to shower that often. Having clean clothes is the same as showering to me.

We sweat 0.8-1.4 liters a day and lose 40,000 skin cells, which is nice. I prefer my jeans a few pounds lighter I guess.

+1

Awhile back there was a thread where posters bragged about not showering or using soap, let alone laundry or deodorant. Over time the non-showerer gets used to it and claims they don't smell. But you know when you walk into someone's house and it smells a bit funky? yeah

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10833 on: October 18, 2015, 07:38:13 AM »

 Washing clothes is ridiculously expensive even if you do it at home. At home, drying a load of clothes costs $1-$3 per load and washing costs another $1 per load in water and gas to heat the water and electricity to spin the tank.

Not sure where you got these silly ideas, but it doesn't take much thought to reach the conclusion that your figures are wildly overblown.  Going by your highest figure, my electric bill would be roughly double, so it just doesn't add up. A quick Google search was coming up with figures of less than a dollar, all in, wash, dry, water soap, electric, hot water etc.. To further drill down, this calculator

http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/laundry.html

gave me an exact # of $0.83 a load. This is in an all electric home with a mostly hot and warm water being used. There are other locations and techniques where doing the job is a fraction of my cost.

notquitefrugal

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10834 on: October 18, 2015, 08:57:52 AM »
We got our pay slips the other day and I made the mistake of saying I had forgotten it was payday! The reaction was priceless.

Seppia

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10835 on: October 18, 2015, 09:07:27 AM »

Quote
May I add a non-money related one?

Coworker sees me pouring in my coffee milk from a recycled juice bottle, inquires about it, and I explain him I ain't drinking that dairy-fluff stuff they give for free, because it's not actual milk and I prefer knowing what I drink. He looks conspiratorially at me and asks me "Is it your own milk?". The guy next to me almost spit his coffee. (And no, I'm not lactating)


That's sexual harassment.

Nah, the guy is gay, and from a culture that didn't explain him much about female anatomy. He just has no clue how the female body works.
That doesn't make it not sexual harassment. Gay men can absolutely sexually harass women, just like straight women can sexually harass women.

Harassment is always in the eye of the beholder. If she didn't feel harassed, it wasn't harassment. There's no point in trying to convince someone to get offended at something that didn't offend them.
Just in case she was offended at the time and was then trying to rationalize it away after. Rationalizing rape away is common; why wouldn't it be for harassment?

Yeah the guy should be stoned to death, minimum.
Harden the f*ck up people, and give the poor gay guy a break, how dishonest is to put "rape" in the conversation here?

Rezdent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10836 on: October 18, 2015, 09:13:14 AM »

 Washing clothes is ridiculously expensive even if you do it at home. At home, drying a load of clothes costs $1-$3 per load and washing costs another $1 per load in water and gas to heat the water and electricity to spin the tank.

Not sure where you got these silly ideas, but it doesn't take much thought to reach the conclusion that your figures are wildly overblown.  Going by your highest figure, my electric bill would be roughly double, so it just doesn't add up. A quick Google search was coming up with figures of less than a dollar, all in, wash, dry, water soap, electric, hot water etc.. To further drill down, this calculator

http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/laundry.html

gave me an exact # of $0.83 a load. This is in an all electric home with a mostly hot and warm water being used. There are other locations and techniques where doing the job is a fraction of my cost.
Hmm.

Last time I ran a cost analysis was about 18 months ago, and our loads were costing almost 2 dollars then, still cheaper than a laundromat.  I'm guessing some of the difference is older, CL-procured machines, cheaper to buy but more costly to run.
Energy and water costs are also part of the difference.
I am on coop for electricity, no options to change.
Dryer is propane, so costs change with every tank.
Water is still cheap, but costs more than larger cities because we are on a small community water supplier.

All the more reason for us to optimize loads.

Tamster

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10837 on: October 18, 2015, 01:31:52 PM »
Thanks for the laundry link calculation site, I'm totally geeking out. :)

This was from my last job:

CW: so I owe a bunch of money in back real estate taxes. They keep sending me foreclosure notices.

Me: (after picking my jaw up) so when are you going to pay it?

CW: I don't know, I have a lot of other bills, plus our cell phones got shut off because I forgot to pay that bill.


maco

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10838 on: October 18, 2015, 03:03:12 PM »

Quote
May I add a non-money related one?

Coworker sees me pouring in my coffee milk from a recycled juice bottle, inquires about it, and I explain him I ain't drinking that dairy-fluff stuff they give for free, because it's not actual milk and I prefer knowing what I drink. He looks conspiratorially at me and asks me "Is it your own milk?". The guy next to me almost spit his coffee. (And no, I'm not lactating)


That's sexual harassment.

Nah, the guy is gay, and from a culture that didn't explain him much about female anatomy. He just has no clue how the female body works.
That doesn't make it not sexual harassment. Gay men can absolutely sexually harass women, just like straight women can sexually harass women.

Harassment is always in the eye of the beholder. If she didn't feel harassed, it wasn't harassment. There's no point in trying to convince someone to get offended at something that didn't offend them.
Just in case she was offended at the time and was then trying to rationalize it away after. Rationalizing rape away is common; why wouldn't it be for harassment?

Yeah the guy should be stoned to death, minimum.
Harden the f*ck up people, and give the poor gay guy a break, how dishonest is to put "rape" in the conversation here?
Wow, way to reducto ad absurdum. There are plenty of misunderstandings about definitions and lots of rationalizing in lots of situations. I gave an example, and you went to a weird place.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10839 on: October 18, 2015, 03:58:40 PM »

Quote
May I add a non-money related one?

Coworker sees me pouring in my coffee milk from a recycled juice bottle, inquires about it, and I explain him I ain't drinking that dairy-fluff stuff they give for free, because it's not actual milk and I prefer knowing what I drink. He looks conspiratorially at me and asks me "Is it your own milk?". The guy next to me almost spit his coffee. (And no, I'm not lactating)


That's sexual harassment.

Nah, the guy is gay, and from a culture that didn't explain him much about female anatomy. He just has no clue how the female body works.
That doesn't make it not sexual harassment. Gay men can absolutely sexually harass women, just like straight women can sexually harass women.

Harassment is always in the eye of the beholder. If she didn't feel harassed, it wasn't harassment. There's no point in trying to convince someone to get offended at something that didn't offend them.
Just in case she was offended at the time and was then trying to rationalize it away after. Rationalizing rape away is common; why wouldn't it be for harassment?

Yeah the guy should be stoned to death, minimum.
Harden the f*ck up people, and give the poor gay guy a break, how dishonest is to put "rape" in the conversation here?
Wow, way to reducto ad absurdum. There are plenty of misunderstandings about definitions and lots of rationalizing in lots of situations. I gave an example, and you went to a weird place.

Perhaps he/she went to a weird place, but I hate it when people use a drastic example as a way of shutting down a discussion. My aunt flipped out when she found out I was a Christian because she doesn't believe that someone should be able to sin and then just ask for forgiveness and be absolved, her example was, "What if someone rapes my daughter," and then pointed at her 3 year old, and then glared at me as if expecting me to defend any such action.

Cressida

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10840 on: October 18, 2015, 04:36:29 PM »

Quote
May I add a non-money related one?

Coworker sees me pouring in my coffee milk from a recycled juice bottle, inquires about it, and I explain him I ain't drinking that dairy-fluff stuff they give for free, because it's not actual milk and I prefer knowing what I drink. He looks conspiratorially at me and asks me "Is it your own milk?". The guy next to me almost spit his coffee. (And no, I'm not lactating)


That's sexual harassment.

Nah, the guy is gay, and from a culture that didn't explain him much about female anatomy. He just has no clue how the female body works.
That doesn't make it not sexual harassment. Gay men can absolutely sexually harass women, just like straight women can sexually harass women.

Harassment is always in the eye of the beholder. If she didn't feel harassed, it wasn't harassment. There's no point in trying to convince someone to get offended at something that didn't offend them.
Just in case she was offended at the time and was then trying to rationalize it away after. Rationalizing rape away is common; why wouldn't it be for harassment?

Yeah the guy should be stoned to death, minimum.
Harden the f*ck up people, and give the poor gay guy a break, how dishonest is to put "rape" in the conversation here?
Wow, way to reducto ad absurdum. There are plenty of misunderstandings about definitions and lots of rationalizing in lots of situations. I gave an example, and you went to a weird place.

Perhaps he/she went to a weird place, but I hate it when people use a drastic example as a way of shutting down a discussion. My aunt flipped out when she found out I was a Christian because she doesn't believe that someone should be able to sin and then just ask for forgiveness and be absolved, her example was, "What if someone rapes my daughter," and then pointed at her 3 year old, and then glared at me as if expecting me to defend any such action.

I think some people are misunderstanding maco's comment. The "drastic example" situation that MgoSam brought up usually goes something like this:

X is bad.
Rape is bad.
Therefore X is as bad as rape.

Which is a dumb argument. But this isn't what maco said. They said something more like this:

X is bad.
Rape is a lot worse.
Even though rape is really bad, people often rationalize rape after the fact as being not as bad as it actually was.
If people can rationalize away the badness of rape, they can easily rationalize away the badness of X since it's not as bad as rape.

See? Not the same thing.

Seppia

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10841 on: October 18, 2015, 04:37:19 PM »
Thanks MgoSam.
Sexual harassment is a terrible thing.
A gay guy that says "is that your milk" should at most make people laugh, not scream SEXUAL HARASSMENT! when the actual recipient of the comment has stated that there's no problem at all.
I absolutely adore the United States, but this ultra-attention to stupid stuff like this is detestable.


Argyle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10842 on: October 18, 2015, 04:48:02 PM »
I think it's offensive and unfunny.  It's not sexual harassment as I would define it, but it's unpleasant.  People targeting others with jokes about personal/sexual subjects is all too common, and after the thousandth time or so, it gets old, so old.  Also people saying "Lighten up" and "It's just a joke!"  Maybe one time, it's just a joke.  After dozens and dozens, it feels like bullying.  Now, maybe you don't think so, and maybe you think it's funny or harmless or good clean fun or whatever.  But recognize that some people don't.  My response to the "joker" would be, "What is wrong with you?"

HairyUpperLip

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10843 on: October 19, 2015, 06:24:46 AM »
Perhaps he/she went to a weird place, but I hate it when people use a drastic example as a way of shutting down a discussion. My aunt flipped out when she found out I was a Christian because she doesn't believe that someone should be able to sin and then just ask for forgiveness and be absolved, her example was, "What if someone rapes my daughter," and then pointed at her 3 year old, and then glared at me as if expecting me to defend any such action.

Is your family Hindu?

I have a Hindu cousin that switched from Hinduism to Rastafarian and another Hindu friend that switched to some form of Christianity. I have a lot of trouble understanding their choice on the switch.

Of course they both did it for their SO's.

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10844 on: October 19, 2015, 08:23:43 AM »
I think it's offensive and unfunny.  It's not sexual harassment as I would define it, but it's unpleasant.  People targeting others with jokes about personal/sexual subjects is all too common, and after the thousandth time or so, it gets old, so old.  Also people saying "Lighten up" and "It's just a joke!"  Maybe one time, it's just a joke.  After dozens and dozens, it feels like bullying.  Now, maybe you don't think so, and maybe you think it's funny or harmless or good clean fun or whatever.  But recognize that some people don't.  My response to the "joker" would be, "What is wrong with you?"

Sounds like he is a socially retarded guy who wasn't making a joke, or trying to be offensive at all, and aside from being horribly awkward and probably embarrassing himself (if he even realized it), didn't do anything wrong.

If a three year old asked that, would you say it was harassment? Offensive? I hope not. I'm guessing it is a similar situation here.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10845 on: October 19, 2015, 08:29:56 AM »
Perhaps he/she went to a weird place, but I hate it when people use a drastic example as a way of shutting down a discussion. My aunt flipped out when she found out I was a Christian because she doesn't believe that someone should be able to sin and then just ask for forgiveness and be absolved, her example was, "What if someone rapes my daughter," and then pointed at her 3 year old, and then glared at me as if expecting me to defend any such action.

Is your family Hindu?

I have a Hindu cousin that switched from Hinduism to Rastafarian and another Hindu friend that switched to some form of Christianity. I have a lot of trouble understanding their choice on the switch.

Of course they both did it for their SO's.

Yeah

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10846 on: October 19, 2015, 08:54:32 AM »
That's nothing. I drink water while standing on the same ground that sometimes has dog crap on it.

Anje

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10847 on: October 19, 2015, 08:56:59 AM »
From todays lunch. Discussion around interest on loan.

CW1: "Company A has interest on house loan on 2,1 %"
CW2 is suitably impressed
CW1: "you've got to have at least 50% self capital, though"
CW2 is totally bummed.
CW1: "Yea, me and the missus have payed down hard on loan since we got out of college, so now we have more freedom. We pay around $ 2.500 a month."
CW2: "Yea, so do we. We just have a LOT of loan"

Yea. Maybe because CW2 bought that house in the absolutely most expencive part of an area stretching aprox 2 hours drive in any direction? And it isn't even close to work...

Kitsunegari

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10848 on: October 19, 2015, 09:10:42 AM »

Quote
May I add a non-money related one?

Coworker sees me pouring in my coffee milk from a recycled juice bottle, inquires about it, and I explain him I ain't drinking that dairy-fluff stuff they give for free, because it's not actual milk and I prefer knowing what I drink. He looks conspiratorially at me and asks me "Is it your own milk?". The guy next to me almost spit his coffee. (And no, I'm not lactating)


That's sexual harassment.

Nah, the guy is gay, and from a culture that didn't explain him much about female anatomy. He just has no clue how the female body works.
That doesn't make it not sexual harassment. Gay men can absolutely sexually harass women, just like straight women can sexually harass women.

Harassment is always in the eye of the beholder. If she didn't feel harassed, it wasn't harassment. There's no point in trying to convince someone to get offended at something that didn't offend them.
Just in case she was offended at the time and was then trying to rationalize it away after. Rationalizing rape away is common; why wouldn't it be for harassment?

Yeah the guy should be stoned to death, minimum.
Harden the f*ck up people, and give the poor gay guy a break, how dishonest is to put "rape" in the conversation here?
Wow, way to reducto ad absurdum. There are plenty of misunderstandings about definitions and lots of rationalizing in lots of situations. I gave an example, and you went to a weird place.

Perhaps he/she went to a weird place, but I hate it when people use a drastic example as a way of shutting down a discussion. My aunt flipped out when she found out I was a Christian because she doesn't believe that someone should be able to sin and then just ask for forgiveness and be absolved, her example was, "What if someone rapes my daughter," and then pointed at her 3 year old, and then glared at me as if expecting me to defend any such action.

I think some people are misunderstanding maco's comment. The "drastic example" situation that MgoSam brought up usually goes something like this:

X is bad.
Rape is bad.
Therefore X is as bad as rape.

Which is a dumb argument. But this isn't what maco said. They said something more like this:

X is bad.
Rape is a lot worse.
Even though rape is really bad, people often rationalize rape after the fact as being not as bad as it actually was.
If people can rationalize away the badness of rape, they can easily rationalize away the badness of X since it's not as bad as rape.

See? Not the same thing.

I think it's offensive and unfunny.  It's not sexual harassment as I would define it, but it's unpleasant.  People targeting others with jokes about personal/sexual subjects is all too common, and after the thousandth time or so, it gets old, so old.  Also people saying "Lighten up" and "It's just a joke!"  Maybe one time, it's just a joke.  After dozens and dozens, it feels like bullying.  Now, maybe you don't think so, and maybe you think it's funny or harmless or good clean fun or whatever.  But recognize that some people don't.  My response to the "joker" would be, "What is wrong with you?"


UPDATE:
The guy was deadly serious when he ask me if it was my milk. I would have been pissed if he was joking about it, but he wasn't.
Anyway, I mentioned milk today in a different context and he told me he wanted to explain his comment for the other day: He was asking me it was milk from my farm animals, as some months earlier I mentioned that my DH wants to get a cow or a goat. But his English is not perfect (he's latino), and it came out wrong, and when everybody started laughing he was too embarassed to explain himself.

astvilla

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #10849 on: October 19, 2015, 10:04:01 AM »

Quote
May I add a non-money related one?

Coworker sees me pouring in my coffee milk from a recycled juice bottle, inquires about it, and I explain him I ain't drinking that dairy-fluff stuff they give for free, because it's not actual milk and I prefer knowing what I drink. He looks conspiratorially at me and asks me "Is it your own milk?". The guy next to me almost spit his coffee. (And no, I'm not lactating)


That's sexual harassment.

Nah, the guy is gay, and from a culture that didn't explain him much about female anatomy. He just has no clue how the female body works.
That doesn't make it not sexual harassment. Gay men can absolutely sexually harass women, just like straight women can sexually harass women.

Harassment is always in the eye of the beholder. If she didn't feel harassed, it wasn't harassment. There's no point in trying to convince someone to get offended at something that didn't offend them.
Just in case she was offended at the time and was then trying to rationalize it away after. Rationalizing rape away is common; why wouldn't it be for harassment?

Yeah the guy should be stoned to death, minimum.
Harden the f*ck up people, and give the poor gay guy a break, how dishonest is to put "rape" in the conversation here?
Wow, way to reducto ad absurdum. There are plenty of misunderstandings about definitions and lots of rationalizing in lots of situations. I gave an example, and you went to a weird place.

Perhaps he/she went to a weird place, but I hate it when people use a drastic example as a way of shutting down a discussion. My aunt flipped out when she found out I was a Christian because she doesn't believe that someone should be able to sin and then just ask for forgiveness and be absolved, her example was, "What if someone rapes my daughter," and then pointed at her 3 year old, and then glared at me as if expecting me to defend any such action.

I think some people are misunderstanding maco's comment. The "drastic example" situation that MgoSam brought up usually goes something like this:

X is bad.
Rape is bad.
Therefore X is as bad as rape.

Which is a dumb argument. But this isn't what maco said. They said something more like this:

X is bad.
Rape is a lot worse.
Even though rape is really bad, people often rationalize rape after the fact as being not as bad as it actually was.
If people can rationalize away the badness of rape, they can easily rationalize away the badness of X since it's not as bad as rape.

See? Not the same thing.

I think it's offensive and unfunny.  It's not sexual harassment as I would define it, but it's unpleasant.  People targeting others with jokes about personal/sexual subjects is all too common, and after the thousandth time or so, it gets old, so old.  Also people saying "Lighten up" and "It's just a joke!"  Maybe one time, it's just a joke.  After dozens and dozens, it feels like bullying.  Now, maybe you don't think so, and maybe you think it's funny or harmless or good clean fun or whatever.  But recognize that some people don't.  My response to the "joker" would be, "What is wrong with you?"


UPDATE:
The guy was deadly serious when he ask me if it was my milk. I would have been pissed if he was joking about it, but he wasn't.
Anyway, I mentioned milk today in a different context and he told me he wanted to explain his comment for the other day: He was asking me it was milk from my farm animals, as some months earlier I mentioned that my DH wants to get a cow or a goat. But his English is not perfect (he's latino), and it came out wrong, and when everybody started laughing he was too embarassed to explain himself.

Yeah I wasn't sure what all the hoopla and lynching from the other posters was about.  I was led to believe at first it sounded like what people thought of as sexual harassment.  But when I read and thought about it a bit more, I realized that maybe it was cow milk or something and maybe she had a cow or something.  We didn't know the whole background story that kitsune didn't provide so I thought, well you do put cow's milk into drinks so maybe that's what it was but we don't know.  Anyways I refrained from drawing conclusions until all explanations/evidence was presented...you know, innocent until guilty.

I wonder if that's something wrong with our culture.  It's impossible to convey all details, tone, imagery, of something happening at a particular moment in just text, few do that very well.  We're so quick to lynch people, hang'em on the cross by putting words into peoples' mouths to details we're missing.  I mean we weren't there so we can't cast judgement on the guy.  Kitsune knows it better than us that it was sexual harassment.  That's why she said it wasn't harassment.

It's an issue I'm seeing in comments from media and stories.  Guilty until innocent.  Fiction over fact.  Too many news stories I've watched where details are omitted or slanted to a direction to tell a specific narrative to generate shock, anger, and confirmation of their viewers' prejudices, biases.  You fill the details to fit your "idea" of what happened instead of what actually happened.  Like the Columbia student and the mattress looking to win the court of public opinion, and not the court of law.  We likely will never know what happens in these events so we fill in it ourselves based on our opinions.

It's why I can't stand strongly opinionated people, "extremists...I guess?"  Feminists, misogynists, conservatives, liberals, etc.  They already tell you the story w/out knowing what it is.  They jump to conclusions based on what they believe, not what it actually is and try to buy/manipulate thoughts/minds/influence that way which is really dangerous and the power of US media.  People let emotions and personal beliefs guide the facts on other peoples' stories they don't know about.  It's judging others w/out the background to judge to validate their world view w/out actually knowing the world.  Making people feel like they know everything and when in agreement, collect clicks and money.

This happened to me before on MMM forums.  I made a post some took offense to.  People lynched me.  I explained what I was better trying to say and actually said.  They all apologized and understood and some even agreed w/me later.  There was balance.  There's too much jumping to conclusions these days.  Unless you were there to experience it, we can only conjecture, not make firm statements.


Quite shameful and sad really. 
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 10:19:36 AM by astvilla »

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!