Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 8630295 times)

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3250 on: July 13, 2014, 11:51:44 AM »
Or you could just, you know, remember where the frack you parked. Your brain works for free.

I don't remember how the conversation started, but I was talking with a co-worker about how expensive cars were. He told me cars may now (or soon?) be required to have those cameras that let you know what's behind you so you can park...or was it something to warn you when you are changing lanes that another car was in that lane...or something riduculous like that.
The idea of the backup camera requirement that's coming up is to prevent people from backing over children & animals in their blind spots. And digital camera sensors and small screens have gotten really cheap these days— you can sell a smartphone for $130 retail and still make a profit, and it has a lot more components than just a camera and a screen!
http://www.amazon.com/Motorola-Moto-Global-Unlocked-Black/dp/B00K0NRYF6

Of course, far more lives could be saved by lowering & enforcing the speed limits on city streets, but backup cameras are a modest-cost, reasonable mitigation of a genuine danger.

Lane warning systems aren't required yet, but apparently might be in the future, and also apparently work just with a relatively cheap camera and software that's amortized over millions of cars.

Car manufacturers might charge an arm and a leg for such features as options, but that's because they can, not because safety features are inherently expensive— a camera sensor is certainly much cheaper than an airbag, and probably cheaper than a seatbelt even.

Tesla is trying to get regulations changed to allow cameras to replace mirrors on cars. The energy savings of not having to push a mirror through the air would more than make up for the cost (what is the cost difference between a big mirror and a small camera anyways?) of putting it in the vehicle.

Hedge_87

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3251 on: July 13, 2014, 02:33:22 PM »
Quote
(what is the cost difference between a big mirror and a small camera anyways?)

What is the maintenance cost on a video surveillance system Vs a simple mirror?  I'm a big fan of reliability and low maintenance cost. I'm sure the camera will work for the first couple of owners but by the time I typically buy them these are the things that start to break. When it comes to vehicles the simpler the better for me.

AlanStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3252 on: July 13, 2014, 02:45:54 PM »
Quote
Tesla is trying to get regulations changed to allow cameras to replace mirrors on cars. The energy savings of not having to push a mirror through the air would more than make up for the cost (what is the cost difference between a big mirror and a small camera anyways?) of putting it in the vehicle.

F-ing cool!!!  If I were in the market for a +60k car, Tesla would be the first dealer I stopped at.

Re back up cameras: is not all about the total lives.  When you kill someone driving to fast in a neighborhood you probably dont know them but when you back over a kid it was probably yours or your neighbors.  Maybe sort of the same from a high level but I bet most people would be a heck of a lot more messed up having killed there own kid vs some random guy.  :-( 

Yeah and when it is standard each company has more of an incentive to do it cheaply vs as an option, got into this argument with a friend years back, he insisted all cars would suddenly cost X$ more where X is the option price.  Also manufacturing efficiency's help cut costs.

Quote
What is the maintenance cost on a video surveillance system Vs a simple mirror?  I'm a big fan of reliability and low maintenance cost. I'm sure the camera will work for the first couple of owners but by the time I typically buy them these are the things that start to break. When it comes to vehicles the simpler the better for me.

Big commercial aircraft cockpits have replaced physical gauge backup instruments with digital screens as the digital version are MORE reliable, may or may not be the case with personal cars.  Also living on a very narrow street I have seen plenty of parked cars mirrors broken due to careless drivers.

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3253 on: July 13, 2014, 03:37:51 PM »
Quote
(what is the cost difference between a big mirror and a small camera anyways?)

What is the maintenance cost on a video surveillance system Vs a simple mirror?  I'm a big fan of reliability and low maintenance cost. I'm sure the camera will work for the first couple of owners but by the time I typically buy them these are the things that start to break. When it comes to vehicles the simpler the better for me.

What is simple about a mirror in a car? Nothing. At the very least they have mechanical linkages so they can be adjusted from inside. More likely they are using electric controls with small motors to move the mirror. My sister broke one off when she was learning to drive and it cost $165 just to buy the part to replace it.

grantmeaname

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3254 on: July 13, 2014, 03:39:17 PM »
Tesla would be the first dealer I stopped at.
Where would you find a Tesla dealership?

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3255 on: July 13, 2014, 03:40:19 PM »
Tesla would be the first dealer I stopped at.
Where would you find a Tesla dealership?

Ha! You beat me to it.

AlanStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3256 on: July 13, 2014, 05:20:22 PM »
Fairly close to most major US cities.

Rural

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3257 on: July 13, 2014, 06:32:33 PM »
Quote
(what is the cost difference between a big mirror and a small camera anyways?)

What is the maintenance cost on a video surveillance system Vs a simple mirror?  I'm a big fan of reliability and low maintenance cost. I'm sure the camera will work for the first couple of owners but by the time I typically buy them these are the things that start to break. When it comes to vehicles the simpler the better for me.

What is simple about a mirror in a car? Nothing. At the very least they have mechanical linkages so they can be adjusted from inside. More likely they are using electric controls with small motors to move the mirror. My sister broke one off when she was learning to drive and it cost $165 just to buy the part to replace it.


Mine's simple and doesn't have any of those linkages or motors. It's easily adjustable; just crank down the window and move it. Simple.

Hedge_87

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3258 on: July 13, 2014, 07:55:10 PM »
Mine too rural. Once the mirror is positioned correctly it is almost as fool proof device as you can get. Some times people just need to leave the wheel alone and stop trying to reinvent it. I'm sure $165 won't come close to touching the cameras of the future.must ask anybody who has had to replace the headlight on a prius.

grantmeaname

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3259 on: July 14, 2014, 01:23:08 AM »
Fairly close to most major US cities.
You missed that whole debacle between Tesla and the dealers?

Those are company-owned stores. In three or four states (including the great state of Ohio, as well as New Jersey where it's in the news the most), dealers' lobbying associations are suing Tesla or lobbying for the state legislatures to make/keep direct sales by the automaker illegal.

otherbarry

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3260 on: July 14, 2014, 04:42:52 AM »
Fairly close to most major US cities.
You missed that whole debacle between Tesla and the dealers?

Those are company-owned stores. In three or four states (including the great state of Ohio, as well as New Jersey where it's in the news the most), dealers' lobbying associations are suing Tesla or lobbying for the state legislatures to make/keep direct sales by the automaker illegal.

Wow, free market everyone. Make sure the product you develop and manufacture can't be sold by you. Car salesmen I swear.

AlanStache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3261 on: July 14, 2014, 04:43:27 AM »
Fairly close to most major US cities.
You missed that whole debacle between Tesla and the dealers?

Those are company-owned stores. In three or four states (including the great state of Ohio, as well as New Jersey where it's in the news the most), dealers' lobbying associations are suing Tesla or lobbying for the state legislatures to make/keep direct sales by the automaker illegal.

Sorry yes I had heard of the direct sales (and bans/law suits/etc ), slipped my mind while posting; was thinking of 'dealer' in generic terms like 'where they have lots of one make of car for sale and a big sign that says FORD'.

Rbuckyfuller

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3262 on: July 14, 2014, 06:42:30 AM »

I'm at a work function with a young BigLaw associate; we work in Midtown Manhattan on Park Ave.  He makes 160k or more.   Because partnership prospects are terrible, I make an off-hand comment that you just have to save as much as you can while you still have a job.  He mentions that he doesn't understand how people save money.  I'm confused (I save 60-70% of my salary) and it turns out that for Manhattan, his rent is dirt cheap.  So I get really confused.

Me: Okay. . . . .  So what do you spend it on?
Him: Man, we work on Park Avenue, everything is hella expensive.
Me: Right; I agree. So what do you spend it on?
Him: Man, I must spend $50-60 a day just on food, minimum.   Have you ever been to Dishes??[a local to-go lunch place that is hella expensive].  I mean, you get lunch and it is $26.
Me: Yeah.  Dishes is hella expensive.  But you know what isn't hella expensive?  The food cart right next to Dishes.
Him: Come on man, we make 6-figures.  I'm not eating at a freaking food cart.
Me (to myself): [If you live like you make 6-figures, and you make 6-figures, of course you are never going to save any money.  Simple, simple math.]

If this is the dishes I know, I can tell you the owner is comfortably making 7 figures, off of the 6 figure chumps who should be spending like they make 5, in their 4 figure shoes, 3 figure shirts, eating 2 figure lunches. Go figure.

Also, who says hella in manhattan?

For those of you with issues with "hella" -- no one says that in Manhattan.   Excuse my poetic license, he used other expressions of extremes, some were a bit more vulgar.

At chesebert, the other big law associate who commented --  I agree that you are in a far better position for partnership if you have money saved.  There are often "buyins" to partnership, etc.  I don't think I'm interested in being a partner.  The partners at my BigFirm do not have lives I envy.

Elyse

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3263 on: July 14, 2014, 06:51:08 AM »
My boss this morning:  "You shouldn't be saving for retirement yet.  Most of your savings will be in the last decade of your career when you are making the big money."

Me: "But what about getting match at least?  And you are missing the market gains if you don't save now."

Boss: "That is just a trick to get you to save when you shouldn't."


I try to keep my financial mouth closed around work.  The rest of the conversation was carefully dancing around the issue.

dandarc

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3264 on: July 14, 2014, 07:50:40 AM »
Mine too rural. Once the mirror is positioned correctly it is almost as fool proof device as you can get. Some times people just need to leave the wheel alone and stop trying to reinvent it. I'm sure $165 won't come close to touching the cameras of the future.must ask anybody who has had to replace the headlight on a prius.

Lucked out on this - turns out my wife's is a 2010 Prius.  Were it a 2009 (which I thought it was), would have had to remove the front bumper to replace the light bulb.

infogoon

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3265 on: July 14, 2014, 08:15:13 AM »
Quote
(what is the cost difference between a big mirror and a small camera anyways?)

What is the maintenance cost on a video surveillance system Vs a simple mirror?  I'm a big fan of reliability and low maintenance cost. I'm sure the camera will work for the first couple of owners but by the time I typically buy them these are the things that start to break. When it comes to vehicles the simpler the better for me.

What is simple about a mirror in a car? Nothing. At the very least they have mechanical linkages so they can be adjusted from inside. More likely they are using electric controls with small motors to move the mirror. My sister broke one off when she was learning to drive and it cost $165 just to buy the part to replace it.

It's even more expensive if you've got a mirror with a heating unit or a turn signal on it.

VillageIdiot

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3266 on: July 14, 2014, 08:36:40 AM »
Getting a lift from a manager to a training event closer to downtown in his Toyota TRD (Toyota Racing Development) truck. Asked him why he didn't get a wagon (even a new outback would beat the mileage of this thing easily), "When you have kids you need room for them".

MooseOutFront

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3267 on: July 14, 2014, 09:44:01 AM »
My boss this morning:  "You shouldn't be saving for retirement yet.  Most of your savings will be in the last decade of your career when you are making the big money."

Me: "But what about getting match at least?  And you are missing the market gains if you don't save now."

Boss: "That is just a trick to get you to save when you shouldn't."

Middlesbrough

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3268 on: July 14, 2014, 09:51:00 AM »
My boss this morning:  "You shouldn't be saving for retirement yet.  Most of your savings will be in the last decade of your career when you are making the big money."

Me: "But what about getting match at least?  And you are missing the market gains if you don't save now."

Boss: "That is just a trick to get you to save when you shouldn't."


I try to keep my financial mouth closed around work.  The rest of the conversation was carefully dancing around the issue.
Just like a teenage girl, I can't even...

Cheddar Stacker

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3269 on: July 14, 2014, 09:57:04 AM »
My boss this morning:  "You shouldn't be saving for retirement yet.  Most of your savings will be in the last decade of your career when you are making the big money."

Me: "But what about getting match at least?  And you are missing the market gains if you don't save now."

Boss: "That is just a trick to get you to save when you shouldn't."


I try to keep my financial mouth closed around work.  The rest of the conversation was carefully dancing around the issue.
Just like a teenage girl, I can't even...

It sounds like your boss is cultivating a herd of drones who will gladly work until 65. Little does (s)he know you might very well already be "in the last decade of your career". Boss' mind will explode when you FIRE.

Cinder

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3270 on: July 14, 2014, 11:44:20 AM »
Mine too rural. Once the mirror is positioned correctly it is almost as fool proof device as you can get. Some times people just need to leave the wheel alone and stop trying to reinvent it. I'm sure $165 won't come close to touching the cameras of the future.must ask anybody who has had to replace the headlight on a prius.

Lucked out on this - turns out my wife's is a 2010 Prius.  Were it a 2009 (which I thought it was), would have had to remove the front bumper to replace the light bulb.

I have a 2008 Prius.  I was able to fit my hand in enough to pull out the assembly to change my headlight without removing my bumper.  YMMV

Gin1984

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3271 on: July 14, 2014, 12:02:00 PM »
My boss this morning:  "You shouldn't be saving for retirement yet.  Most of your savings will be in the last decade of your career when you are making the big money."

Me: "But what about getting match at least?  And you are missing the market gains if you don't save now."

Boss: "That is just a trick to get you to save when you shouldn't."


I try to keep my financial mouth closed around work.  The rest of the conversation was carefully dancing around the issue.
Twitch, twitch, twitch.  I think this is worst thing I have ever heard.

gimp

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3272 on: July 14, 2014, 12:17:04 PM »
Backup cameras are awesome, for, you know, not killing small children. (I guess it's even more awesome to teach children to respect and fear 2-ton steel machines, but hey, we can't have everything.)

With that said, I'd never replace mirrors with cameras using today's tech. Look, Sony makes the best goddamn sensors in the world, and they're amazing in the day, and they can be good at night... but in low light and poor light, you either get a lot of noise or you need long exposures. My eye needs neither of those things; it just works. It's the same issue of electronic viewfinder versus optical, on a camera: Optical lets me look through it at night and see stars. Some day that will change, but today is not that day _yet_.

The best solution today, I think, are electrochromic mirrors. They're great at night, because if you shine a bright light on them (ie, headlights) they tint themselves. They're common to use inside the car for a rearview, but less so on the outside.

Backup cameras are awesome, and I wouldn't mind them being required as a safety feature, or at least a cheap option, along with proximity sensors. But to replace mirrors? Not today. Maybe in ten years.

grantmeaname

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3273 on: July 14, 2014, 12:20:23 PM »
How much nighttime fidelity do you really need to drive with, though? if it's enough for headlights and the reflections on signs that are behind you, aren't you 99% of the way there?

GuitarStv

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3274 on: July 14, 2014, 12:58:55 PM »
Backup cameras are awesome, for, you know, not killing small children. (I guess it's even more awesome to teach children to respect and fear 2-ton steel machines, but hey, we can't have everything.)

I have an alternate, more natural approach.

I backup slowly with the window down.  If I hear a child screaming I know that there's a child under the back of the car and stop.  Of course, this hasn't happened to me because none of the people I know are stupid enough to let little kids run around behind vehicles that are backing up.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3275 on: July 14, 2014, 01:39:12 PM »
Don't worry, this is America, where nothing gets made into law without 40+ exclusions to grandfather half the population into the old plan. It's 2014 and you can still drive in NC without a passenger side rear-view mirror. I think self-driving cars will be a reality way before everyone is forced to have cameras on their vehicle.

infogoon

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3276 on: July 14, 2014, 02:13:20 PM »
I always liked the old Datsuns with the sideview mirrors mounted out on the fenders. I wonder if that's still legal.

shotgunwilly

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3277 on: July 14, 2014, 02:21:34 PM »

I have an alternate, more natural approach.

I backup slowly with the window down.  If I hear a child screaming I know that there's a child under the back of the car and stop.  Of course, this hasn't happened to me because none of the people I know are stupid enough to let little kids run around behind vehicles that are backing up.

Hahaha. +1

Jane

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3278 on: July 14, 2014, 03:46:12 PM »
Backup cameras are awesome, for, you know, not killing small children. (I guess it's even more awesome to teach children to respect and fear 2-ton steel machines, but hey, we can't have everything.)

...

Backup cameras are awesome, and I wouldn't mind them being required as a safety feature, or at least a cheap option, along with proximity sensors. But to replace mirrors? Not today. Maybe in ten years.

I couldn't agree more with these two statements. There are tons of horrible stories of small children being killed by their own parents. Think of a little toddler, running out of the house excited to see daddy, runs behind the car, and daddy backs over her because she is shorter than the window. It can all happen so fast to any parent. Kids are swift little things.

Plus, there are so many idiots out there who don't check the direction their car is moving before actually stepping on the gas. I've been nearly hit multiple times by drivers backing up because they didn't check their rear view mirror, both in parking lots and just walking on the sidewalk past driveways. It's a lot harder to miss when there is a video playing right there on your dashboard of things moving behind your car.

grantmeaname

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3279 on: July 14, 2014, 03:51:28 PM »
But is the solution to driver ignorance really more gadgets? To me backup cameras and lane-exit sensors are just more examples of learned helplessness, causing people to pay even less attention until it appears yet another "safety" device is needed.

randymarsh

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3280 on: July 14, 2014, 04:52:45 PM »
But is the solution to driver ignorance really more gadgets? To me backup cameras and lane-exit sensors are just more examples of learned helplessness, causing people to pay even less attention until it appears yet another "safety" device is needed.

I'd love to live in a world where everyone was always 100% responsible and cautious when driving too, but that's not very realistic. People (even MMM readers) are tired, stressed, bored, etc. sometimes when driving. Honest mistakes do happen.

Systems like traction control and automatic braking react way faster and more precisely than even the best human driver could.

BTW, backup cameras are required for the 2018 model year. http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/31/autos/rear-facing-cameras/

Jags4186

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3281 on: July 14, 2014, 05:19:15 PM »
But is the solution to driver ignorance really more gadgets? To me backup cameras and lane-exit sensors are just more examples of learned helplessness, causing people to pay even less attention until it appears yet another "safety" device is needed.

If you've never lived in a city situation where you drive around sometimes 30+ minutes to find an ultra tiny spot to parallel park in then you wouldn't understand the benefits of a back up camera.

robotclown

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3282 on: July 14, 2014, 05:41:39 PM »
A coworker was talking about how he has to go get a money order to pay his rent (that was due on the 1st, so now they won't take a check,) but can't get it until payday.  Luckily, he won't have to worry about rent anymore, since he's buying a house. 

I didn't ask any follow-up questions.  Maybe I should have.

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3283 on: July 14, 2014, 06:01:24 PM »
A coworker was talking about how he has to go get a money order to pay his rent (that was due on the 1st, so now they won't take a check,) but can't get it until payday.  Luckily, he won't have to worry about rent anymore, since he's buying a house. 

I didn't ask any follow-up questions.  Maybe I should have.

Ha. You should ask where he's buying and say that's awesome, you've been hoping to pick up a foreclosure in that very area.

SweetRedWine

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3284 on: July 14, 2014, 06:17:21 PM »
Backup cameras are awesome, for, you know, not killing small children. (I guess it's even more awesome to teach children to respect and fear 2-ton steel machines, but hey, we can't have everything.)

I have an alternate, more natural approach.

I backup slowly with the window down.  If I hear a child screaming I know that there's a child under the back of the car and stop.  Of course, this hasn't happened to me because none of the people I know are stupid enough to let little kids run around behind vehicles that are backing up.

Sadly, I live near people this stupid.  It wasn't too long ago that I almost backed over my neighbor's kid who was riding her bicycle.  We were both saved by my backup camera.  The parents won't change their ways, so now I back in to my parking space. 

iris lily

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3285 on: July 14, 2014, 07:13:21 PM »
But is the solution to driver ignorance really more gadgets? To me backup cameras and lane-exit sensors are just more examples of learned helplessness, causing people to pay even less attention until it appears yet another "safety" device is needed.

and more laws?
Sadly, small creatures bigger than our adult selves are often at the mercy of bigger creatures.

The kids who are getting cooked in hot cars are a real tale of caution. Same for dogs. Today I heard about a national awareness campaign to "teach" parents that it is hot in cars by having them sit in a car with rolled up windows. One woman on the microphone said that she had her dog with her and "he is panting like crazy."

gosh, ya think?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 07:15:34 PM by iris lily »

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3286 on: July 14, 2014, 08:30:07 PM »
I started at a new job so I have been trying to familiarize myself with work benefits. I attended the HR benefit workshop and some of the things really shocked me.  By the way, this is one of the largest energy companies in U.S.

Me: I heard at the HR presentation that there is no discount for ESSP. Why would you buy if there is no discount? By the way, HR rep said you do not have pay brokerage fees when you buy so it is a great deal!!  I am serious. This is what she said:)
Coworker: Actually, I have been buying for several years.
Me: Are you serious? Why are you buying it? What is so special about this stock?
Coworker: It was going up so I bought it. For some reason, it started going down for the last couple of years. (By the way, she has a finance degree:) )

I also would be shocked because I feel like most non-tiny energy companies have really great benefits! I think I have the opposite "overheard at work"... we get a 15% discount with a lookback and there are people who DON'T buy in. we also get a 100% 401k match on the first 8%, vested immediately, and I swear to god I had a coworker who was contributing NOTHING. at our starting salary that's a free extra $7600 a year that she was just like, nope, no thanks! ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?!!!?!??

My boss this morning:  "You shouldn't be saving for retirement yet.  Most of your savings will be in the last decade of your career when you are making the big money."

Me: "But what about getting match at least?  And you are missing the market gains if you don't save now."

Boss: "That is just a trick to get you to save when you shouldn't."


I try to keep my financial mouth closed around work.  The rest of the conversation was carefully dancing around the issue.

hahahahhaha. WHAT

A coworker was talking about how he has to go get a money order to pay his rent (that was due on the 1st, so now they won't take a check,) but can't get it until payday.  Luckily, he won't have to worry about rent anymore, since he's buying a house. 

I didn't ask any follow-up questions.  Maybe I should have.

Ha. You should ask where he's buying and say that's awesome, you've been hoping to pick up a foreclosure in that very area.

hahahahahaha... you are terrible and a comedic genius!

Daisy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3287 on: July 14, 2014, 08:40:23 PM »
But is the solution to driver ignorance really more gadgets? To me backup cameras and lane-exit sensors are just more examples of learned helplessness, causing people to pay even less attention until it appears yet another "safety" device is needed.

If you've never lived in a city situation where you drive around sometimes 30+ minutes to find an ultra tiny spot to parallel park in then you wouldn't understand the benefits of a back up camera.

I think I was the one that started this whole backup camera discussion.

My main point is that it might be a useful tool, but REQUIRING it on cars is what I don't like.

And I'm more on the this fosters "learned helplessness" part of this discussion. My co-worker couldn't even conceive why I would object to being forced to have one in my car.

Kind of similar to GPS. Yes, it's a great tool. But now people are suspending common sense and their five physical senses when trying to find directions because the GPS tools are slowly killing the general population's ability to read maps and use logic (learning when to ignore GPS and go with what's right in front of them).

- I had a friend (Ivy League law school grad) call me and ask if she should follow her GPS's advice that she was at the entrance of a national park since she had just seen a sign that the entrance was in 5 miles. She was driving to meet me at the park.

- Another friend (masters degree in engineering and has worked at various startups) insist that we park in this desolate parking lot while looking for a restaurant because the red and blue dots on his GPS map said we were at the location. I objected because I looked around and couldn't find any signs of a restaurant around, but he parked anyways. Well, we parked and had to walk 5 minutes to get to the restaurant. At this point, he then walked back and moved his car closer to the restaurant.

Oops...I swore I wasn't going to go off on my GPS tirade but I did. Let me stop now before it gets worse (and it does)...
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 08:44:37 PM by Daisy »

wheatfree

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3288 on: July 14, 2014, 08:51:40 PM »
Backup cameras are awesome, for, you know, not killing small children. (I guess it's even more awesome to teach children to respect and fear 2-ton steel machines, but hey, we can't have everything.)

...

Backup cameras are awesome, and I wouldn't mind them being required as a safety feature, or at least a cheap option, along with proximity sensors. But to replace mirrors? Not today. Maybe in ten years.

I couldn't agree more with these two statements. There are tons of horrible stories of small children being killed by their own parents. Think of a little toddler, running out of the house excited to see daddy, runs behind the car, and daddy backs over her because she is shorter than the window. It can all happen so fast to any parent. Kids are swift little things.

Plus, there are so many idiots out there who don't check the direction their car is moving before actually stepping on the gas. I've been nearly hit multiple times by drivers backing up because they didn't check their rear view mirror, both in parking lots and just walking on the sidewalk past driveways. It's a lot harder to miss when there is a video playing right there on your dashboard of things moving behind your car.
My husband is a cop.  He just wrote a ticket to a doctor who backed into a parked armored car.  The doctor had a backup camera.  They're great little pieces of technology, but the first thing you need to engage when driving a car is your brain.

Daisy

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3289 on: July 14, 2014, 08:54:43 PM »
BTW, backup cameras are required for the 2018 model year. http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/31/autos/rear-facing-cameras/

From the article:
Quote
Rear facing cameras, including those that automakers already offer, would save between 59 and 69 deaths a year, NHTSA said.

Any death is bad, but statistically speaking this is a miniscule amount. Too miniscule to require all drivers in the US to have cameras in their cars.

And if you really wanted to prevent deaths, you need to somehow connect the rear-view camera with an image processing capability to detect anything behind it to the braking system. That way, the driver doesn't even have to think about braking at all...because there is no guarantee the driver will be looking at the camera. In all likelihood, they will be looking at their smartphone while backing up (unfortunately). ;-)
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 08:56:42 PM by Daisy »

msilenus

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3290 on: July 15, 2014, 12:56:45 AM »
Quote
Rear facing cameras, including those that automakers already offer, would save between 59 and 69 deaths a year, NHTSA said.

Any death is bad, but statistically speaking this is a miniscule amount. Too miniscule to require all drivers in the US to have cameras in their cars.


EPA says a human life is worth about $7m.  That's about $420m/yr.   There are something like 16m cars sold in the U.S. annually.  So if you can do it for $25/car or less, you'll be coming out ahead when the old ones have aged out of the fleet.  At scale that should be doable.  The cameras in low-end cell phones sure aren't adding $25 (~25%) to the market cost.

grantmeaname

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3291 on: July 15, 2014, 12:57:25 AM »
If you've never lived in a city situation where you drive around sometimes 30+ minutes to find an ultra tiny spot to parallel park in then you wouldn't understand the benefits of a back up camera.
I've parallel parked before. My car has this big transparent thing on the back so usually I try and look out that and see if I'm getting close to hitting something.
and more laws?
Sadly, small creatures bigger than our adult selves are often at the mercy of bigger creatures.
You can't legislate stoopid away any more than you can gadget-and-feature stoopid away. But at least laws generally require certain kinds of behavior from drivers, rather than prevent the consequences of not doing something so as to train drivers that not doing it doesn't matter (checking in your blind spot, looking behind the car before you back up, looking at what gear you selectd before you step on the gas).

Rural

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3292 on: July 15, 2014, 04:35:21 AM »
Quote
(what is the cost difference between a big mirror and a small camera anyways?)

What is the maintenance cost on a video surveillance system Vs a simple mirror?  I'm a big fan of reliability and low maintenance cost. I'm sure the camera will work for the first couple of owners but by the time I typically buy them these are the things that start to break. When it comes to vehicles the simpler the better for me.

What is simple about a mirror in a car? Nothing. At the very least they have mechanical linkages so they can be adjusted from inside. More likely they are using electric controls with small motors to move the mirror. My sister broke one off when she was learning to drive and it cost $165 just to buy the part to replace it.

It's even more expensive if you've got a mirror with a heating unit or a turn signal on it.


I'll just point out that the law says you have to have a mirror, not that you have to have one exactly like the stupid over engineered bedpannish one that broke.

HairyUpperLip

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3293 on: July 15, 2014, 07:43:37 AM »
Thread is going too off-topic on the backup cameras, but I also believe it's a stupid device that enables stupidity.

Wife and I went to look at Prius's and CT200h's the other day. Both dealers were surprised that I had zero interest in navigation and backup cameras. Why would I want more shit that's just going to break and cause more headaches?

Let 60-whatever people die per year. If people aren't capable of driving then maybe we should put our focus on who we let drive and what skills are needed to drive.

I say manual windows, locks, and standard transmissions for everyone. Let people learn how to really operate a fucking car and learn how annoying it is to rubberneck and needlessly shift gears. Maybe society will come together in harmony and respect when society has a flipping clue how to actually drive in a safe manner.

/end rant.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 08:34:44 AM by HairyUpperLip »

MooseOutFront

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3294 on: July 15, 2014, 08:25:33 AM »
We really should drop the back-up camera talk and get this thread back on it's normal path of grocery expenses and gelatin food dishes of a bygone era.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 10:13:02 AM by MooseOutFront »

boarder42

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3295 on: July 15, 2014, 10:10:39 AM »
at 25 a month for a cell plan 1k lasts 40 months 2k lasts 80 so i guess you just dont use a cell phone? i mean even 5 bucks is 200 months.  200 months is only 17 years.  and that doesnt include buying a phone.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3296 on: July 15, 2014, 10:16:52 AM »
I just spoke with the woman who manages the cell phone contracts for my company. A number of employees racked up >$1,000 cell phone bill for ONE month each for their own phone numbers. I think the highest ever was something on the order >$4,000 for ONE MONTH. No that's not a typo: $4K for 1 month. I am 29 years old and I don't think I've spend more than $1-2K over the course of my LIFE on cell phones & plans, nevermind spending that in one month.

When confronted, the users in question had the audacity to say that it was their right to run up a company cell phone bill that high and refused to change their usage.

This is ridiculous on multiple levels.  First, there should be no way to run up a cell phone bill that high in this age of pervasive internet connectivity.  Was the employee on a satellite phone in the middle of the desert?

seanc0x0

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3297 on: July 15, 2014, 10:23:40 AM »
I just spoke with the woman who manages the cell phone contracts for my company. A number of employees racked up >$1,000 cell phone bill for ONE month each for their own phone numbers. I think the highest ever was something on the order >$4,000 for ONE MONTH. No that's not a typo: $4K for 1 month. I am 29 years old and I don't think I've spend more than $1-2K over the course of my LIFE on cell phones & plans, nevermind spending that in one month.

When confronted, the users in question had the audacity to say that it was their right to run up a company cell phone bill that high and refused to change their usage.

This is ridiculous on multiple levels.  First, there should be no way to run up a cell phone bill that high in this age of pervasive internet connectivity.  Was the employee on a satellite phone in the middle of the desert?

International roaming, for one. There have been a few high-profile cases here where people took their phones out of the country and streamed Netflix and the like. Just checked, and if I took an iPhone to Europe without a travel plan, I'd be paying $15/MB!

Wolf_Stache

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3298 on: July 15, 2014, 10:25:13 AM »
I just spoke with the woman who manages the cell phone contracts for my company. A number of employees racked up >$1,000 cell phone bill for ONE month each for their own phone numbers. I think the highest ever was something on the order >$4,000 for ONE MONTH. No that's not a typo: $4K for 1 month. I am 29 years old and I don't think I've spend more than $1-2K over the course of my LIFE on cell phones & plans, nevermind spending that in one month.

When confronted, the users in question had the audacity to say that it was their right to run up a company cell phone bill that high and refused to change their usage.

This is ridiculous on multiple levels.  First, there should be no way to run up a cell phone bill that high in this age of pervasive internet connectivity.  Was the employee on a satellite phone in the middle of the desert?

Seriously, but even that is not an excuse. We have a bunch of satelitte phones we use to keep in contact with the fleet when they are in the middle of the ocean, and those bills are less than $4000 for the YEAR! How the hell do you run up that much on a personal line in one month????

nordlead

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #3299 on: July 15, 2014, 10:35:25 AM »
at 25 a month for a cell plan 1k lasts 40 months 2k lasts 80 so i guess you just dont use a cell phone? i mean even 5 bucks is 200 months.  200 months is only 17 years.  and that doesnt include buying a phone.

Phones can easily be had for free, and 7 years of service at 29 years old means he would have got his first phone at 22. I didn't get my first cell phone until I was at least 22, and I'm 30, so I've only had a cell phone for 8 years.

If I count half my bill (since my wife had one too), it's only cost me $3232 for those 8 years of service. My next 8 years of service (since I didn't start with MVNO's), will probably cost me ~$2100 and that is including 3 phones on par with the Nexus 5 (essentially, 1 new phone every 2 years which is faster than I typically buy them).