Overheard at Work

[Supertaster]

Apparently, there is a $35 tube of mascara with a battery.  It vibrates and separates your lashes for fuller coverage.   Who knew?!

This reminds me of the razors with batteries in them that are supposed to vibrate the hairs in a way that cuts them closer.

The fact that Gillette is owned by Proctor & Gamble (which manufactures Duracell batteries) and Schick is owned by Energizer Holdings makes it pretty obvious why those razors were introduced. I wouldn't be shocked if the same logic was at play here.

[randymarsh]

The fact that Gillette is owned by Proctor & Gamble (which manufactures Duracell batteries) and Schick is owned by Energizer Holdings makes it pretty obvious why those razors were introduced. I wouldn't be shocked if the same logic was at play here.

Mind blown. I knew that Proctor & Gamble owned one of the battery brands and Gillette but never made the connection. Talk about corporate synergy!

[Anatidae V]

PMI rules vary depending on the loan.  Ours requires 24 payments, which works out perfectly for our unique situation... that's about the time we'd be hitting 20% equity anyway.

From what I've had whinged to me, in Australia PMI is a lump sum added to the value of your loan, rather than an extra you pay until you have a certain amount of equity.

[Melody]

From what I've had whinged to me, in Australia PMI is a lump sum added to the value of your loan, rather than an extra you pay until you have a certain amount of equity.

True. It seems the American system is more favorable to MMMer's who may notice it's cheaper to rent than buy, go in with a low deposit but hit 20% as soon as humanely possible. US system is probably more expensive (than the Australian System) for those people where 30 yr mortgage = 30 years.

[AlanStache]

True. It seems the American system is more favorable to MMMer's who may notice it's cheaper to rent than buy, go in with a low deposit but hit 20% as soon as humanely possible. US system is probably more expensive (than the Australian System) for those people where 30 yr mortgage = 30 years.

You mean more expensive because a generic non-mmm reader would keep paying the pmi after 20% equity?  Generally even non-mmm readers would be able to get ride of the pmi well before the end of the 30 loan.  What is more expensive is just a math problem using numbers I dont have.

[grantmeaname]

Often you have to keep paying PMI after you reach 20% equity if you pay the loan down faster than scheduled. People don't do it just for fun.

[Posthumane]

The PMI equivalent in Canada (CMHC insurance) is also usually a lump sum that gets tacked on to the mortgage amount up front if you put down less than 20%. I think mine ended up being something on the order of 2.5% of the purchase price.

Back to overheard at work though, co-workers were talking about a recent lottery with a $200 million jackpot and how in reality after taxes it ends up being much less.
Me: I would be satisfied with just $1 mil.
CW1: 1 million? I don't think that would be enough. I would want an amount that I could actually quit my job.
CW2: Well, that's like $50k/year if you withdraw 5%.
CW1: Yeah, that's definitely not enough. I mean I suppose I could subsist on that if I had to, but if I wasn't working I would have all this extra time and I would need money to go on tropical vacations, etc.

CW1 is making north of 100k, his wife works and makes probably 2/3 of what he does, and we live in a low/moderate COL area. He carpools in an older diesel car and they have no kids so I don't think their expenses are too high.

[Ashyukun]

True. It seems the American system is more favorable to MMMer's who may notice it's cheaper to rent than buy, go in with a low deposit but hit 20% as soon as humanely possible. US system is probably more expensive (than the Australian System) for those people where 30 yr mortgage = 30 years.

You mean more expensive because a generic non-mmm reader would keep paying the pmi after 20% equity?  Generally even non-mmm readers would be able to get ride of the pmi well before the end of the 30 loan.  What is more expensive is just a math problem using numbers I dont have.

Actually I believe that the company that owns the mortgage has to drop the PMI automatically within a reasonable amount of time after you surpass 20% equity.

I went through this with the house that I just sold- I was coming up on 20% of the original purchase price of the house AND the amount it had appraised for when I refinanced it a few years back (when it CONVENIENTLY appraised for just a bit too low for me to already have 20% equity...) and looked into it and heard back from the bank that if I wanted the PMI removed before whenever their mystery numbers said it was clearly at over 20% equity I would have to pay for an appraisal of the house myself to prove it. Since the appraisal would have cost more than I would have saved by not having the PMI for the few months before they dropped it automatically I didn't bother with it.

[MooseOutFront]

I've got a good overheard at work ( maybe good and bad...):
A coworker was talking about buying a $40K truck and $60K boat last year --- they paid CASH.
She's an admin asst and he is a retired firefighter, and they saved up the cash!

Good for them!

lol.  This is like a Dave Ramsey student gone renegade. 

[FIPurpose]

Often you have to keep paying PMI after you reach 20% equity if you pay the loan down faster than scheduled. People don't do it just for fun.

I'm pretty PMI by law has to be removable. (Homeowners Protection Act 1999). It's FHA loans that don't have to follow this rule.

[grantmeaname]

Often you have to keep paying PMI after you reach 20% equity if you pay the loan down faster than scheduled. People don't do it just for fun.

I'm pretty PMI by law has to be removable. (Homeowners Protection Act 1999). It's FHA loans that don't have to follow this rule.

Yeah, I guess technically that's MIP. Same concept, though.

[zinnie]

One of the assistants where I work just quit her job to go back to school for a PhD. Which sounds reasonable, except that classes don't start until the fall. Her plan for the mean time? "My credit card limit is $12,000--I should be able to make it until I start getting student loans." She is taking a six month break in between work and school, and putting it all on the credit card.

I get taking time off when you can but my goodness, she has been working here for a while, and the pay is good even at the lowest levels. It would have been a great time to save up for going back to school.

I guess I should just be glad I won't be her in a few years when she graduates with student loans, credit card debt, a bad work ethic, and a PhD in English literature... :)

[MooseOutFront]

Oof. Mindblowingly bad choices there.

[galliver]

One should never pay for a PhD. Ever.

[Left Bank]

You pay for a PhD, trust me, you pay...

[galliver]

I meant financially :P

[Cassie]

That is true if you go to a traditional college setting. Good grades will get you free tuition, etc. However, if you want to keep working and get an online degree then there is no way not to pay for it.

[lifejoy]

You pay for a PhD, trust me, you pay...

LOL

[iris lily]

I've got a good overheard at work ( maybe good and bad...):
A coworker was talking about buying a $40K truck and $60K boat last year --- they paid CASH.
She's an admin asst and he is a retired firefighter, and they saved up the cash!

Good for them!

uhm.  inheritance?

Usually people at this income level who can "save up" this kind of money don't go spending it on toys.
Just sayin.'

[Rural]

That is true if you go to a traditional college setting. Good grades will get you free tuition, etc. However, if you want to keep working and get an online degree then there is no way not to pay for it.

Serious, non-facetious question. Are there internet PhDs that are worth the expense of getting them?

Well, most of the ones from state flagship universities are indistinguishable from face to face PhDs from state flagship universities, so there's that.

[Zaga]

I've got a good overheard at work ( maybe good and bad...):
A coworker was talking about buying a $40K truck and $60K boat last year --- they paid CASH.
She's an admin asst and he is a retired firefighter, and they saved up the cash!

Good for them!

lol.  This is like a Dave Ramsey student gone renegade.

I never heard of Dave Ramsey before finding this site. From what comments I've seen here, I am not interesting in reading his books or listening to his shows.  So - could you explain this to someone who is a Ramsey-illiterate?

Dave has rules for buying cars.  #1 is to buy with cash.  #2 is to only buy a new car if your net worth is over $1 million.  And #3 is for the value of all depreciating assets like cars and boats to total no more than half of your annual take home pay.

So while they did have the cash, they certainly broke the third rule, and probably the second rule too.  So, renegades (if they follow Dave Ramsey).

MOD EDIT: fixed quote format

[Mori]

That is true if you go to a traditional college setting. Good grades will get you free tuition, etc. However, if you want to keep working and get an online degree then there is no way not to pay for it.

Sometimes your company pays--mine has tuition reimbursement up to a certain amount.

[MooseOutFront]

I've got a good overheard at work ( maybe good and bad...):
A coworker was talking about buying a $40K truck and $60K boat last year --- they paid CASH.
She's an admin asst and he is a retired firefighter, and they saved up the cash!

Good for them!

lol.  This is like a Dave Ramsey student gone renegade.

I never heard of Dave Ramsey before finding this site. From what comments I've seen here, I am not interesting in reading his books or listening to his shows.  So - could you explain this to someone who is a Ramsey-illiterate?

Yes, just saying they excelled at the "avoid debt!" "pay with cash!" lessons but still completely blew it by going off the deep end with consumption. Debt free though!

[Albert]

Serious, non-facetious question. Are there internet PhDs that are worth the expense of getting them?

Internet PhDs???????? There is such a thing? Please tell me you are joking…

[mariarose]

I've got a good overheard at work ( maybe good and bad...):
A coworker was talking about buying a $40K truck and $60K boat last year --- they paid CASH.
She's an admin asst and he is a retired firefighter, and they saved up the cash!

Good for them!

lol.  This is like a Dave Ramsey student gone renegade.

I never heard of Dave Ramsey before finding this site. From what comments I've seen here, I am not interesting in reading his books or listening to his shows.  So - could you explain this to someone who is a Ramsey-illiterate?

Yes, just saying they excelled at the "avoid debt!" "pay with cash!" lessons but still completely blew it by going off the deep end with consumption. Debt free though!

Well said and succintly put. " Cash is King", and "...you can live like no one else"

[mariarose]

The PMI equivalent in Canada (CMHC insurance) is also usually a lump sum that gets tacked on to the mortgage amount up front if you put down less than 20%. I think mine ended up being something on the order of 2.5% of the purchase price.

Back to overheard at work though, co-workers were talking about a recent lottery with a $200 million jackpot and how in reality after taxes it ends up being much less.
Me: I would be satisfied with just $1 mil.
CW1: 1 million? I don't think that would be enough. I would want an amount that I could actually quit my job.
CW2: Well, that's like $50k/year if you withdraw 5%.
CW1: Yeah, that's definitely not enough. I mean I suppose I could subsist on that if I had to, but if I wasn't working I would have all this extra time and I would need money to go on tropical vacations, etc.

As long as the cost of playing the lottery was more than covered, wouldn't it all be good?  I mean, by this standard, why do anything if the payoff isn't retirement with tropical vacations galore?  Stop smoking?  Nah. Cook dinner in rather than eat out every night? Nah.  Drive a Nissan Leaf as opposed to a 1ton 4WD truck to work?  Nah.  Not enough return to retire with adequate tropical sun exposure, on any ONE thing.

I don't advocate playing the lottery, by the way.  Just saying...

[KatieSSS]

I was recently at a work-sponsored dinner where I was the only one in the room making less than 6-figures. A conversation with one of the high-earning guests went like this:

Guest: What do you hope to be doing in 20 years?
Me: 20 years? I hope to be retired! (I'm in my 20s, btw)
Guest: Retired!? I'm sorry dear, but it is going to take much longer than that for you to retire!
**Laughter ensues from the rest of the table, with nods of agreement toward the guest***
Me: We'll see….

[iris lily]

Dave has rules for buying cars.  #1 is to buy with cash.  #2 is to only buy a new car if your net worth is over $1 million.  And #3 is for the value of all depreciating assets like cars and boats to total no more than half of your annual take home pay.

That is cool to know Dave's rules for car buying. We follow them only I didn't know "the rules" but they make sense.

[iris lily]

I was recently at a work-sponsored dinner where I was the only one in the room making less than 6-figures. A conversation with one of the high-earning guests went like this:

Guest: What do you hope to be doing in 20 years?
Me: 20 years? I hope to be retired! (I'm in my 20s, btw)
Guest: Retired!? I'm sorry dear, but it is going to take much longer than that for you to retire!
**Laughter ensues from the rest of the table, with nods of agreement toward the guest***
Me: We'll see….

awww Katie, that is too bad that you were laughed at.  They obviously cannot conceive of the Mustaschian Life. Too bad for them.

[Cheddar Stacker]

I was recently at a work-sponsored dinner where I was the only one in the room making less than 6-figures. A conversation with one of the high-earning guests went like this:

Guest: What do you hope to be doing in 20 years?
Me: 20 years? I hope to be retired! (I'm in my 20s, btw)
Guest: Retired!? I'm sorry dear, but it is going to take much longer than that for you to retire!
**Laughter ensues from the rest of the table, with nods of agreement toward the guest***
Me: We'll see….

It's hard to understand why most people don't think this is possible. Even harder to understand when they are all making 6 figures. Good job for sticking to your guns.

I have a CW who's 20 years my senior, been making 6 figures for 10-20 years during a 32 year career, with a significant other making 6 figures on the same track. CW is "worried about retirement" and keeps running the numbers. Will likely retire in 5-8 years, and I will likely not be far behind while 20 years younger.

I once mentioned to CW I'd be fine living on $50K/yr and CW was insistent that is just not enough. I guess it's not enough when you "need" 2 luxury cars, fine wines, 5 star international travel, and all the other lifestyle choices people make. There are 2 sides to the equation, and most people just don't understand lower expenses = retirement.

[AlanStache]

awww Katie, that is too bad that you were laughed at.  They obviously cannot conceive of the Mustaschian Life. Too bad for them.

I wonder if any of them are readers here and just going along to get along.  Announcing you intent to retire in 2 years may not be the best career move.

EDIT: "I once mentioned to CW I'd be fine living on $50K/yr and CW was insistent that is just not enough."  Hell if I was guaranteed 50k/year I would retire now, buy a house somewhere cool and devote half my day to running and still have a great (by non mmm standards) savings rate. 

[Daleth]

I guess I should just be glad I won't be her in a few years when she graduates with student loans, credit card debt, a bad work ethic, and a PhD in English literature... :)

English literature?!?! Seriously?! Unless what she's getting is actually a PhD in composition and rhetoric from an English department--which is the only English PhD for which there is a viable job market at the moment; comp/rhet is actually doing pretty well--she is doomed. Had she asked your advice earlier and had you come here to transmit her request, I would've pointed her to the Chronicle.com forum (Chronicle for Higher Education), where hundreds upon hundreds of professors and PhD students are available 24/7 to set her straight.

[dragoncar]

I was recently at a work-sponsored dinner where I was the only one in the room making less than 6-figures. A conversation with one of the high-earning guests went like this:

Guest: What do you hope to be doing in 20 years?
Me: 20 years? I hope to be retired! (I'm in my 20s, btw)
Guest: Retired!? I'm sorry dear, but it is going to take much longer than that for you to retire!
**Laughter ensues from the rest of the table, with nods of agreement toward the guest***
Me: We'll see….

awww Katie, that is too bad that you were laughed at.  They obviously cannot conceive of the Mustaschian Life. Too bad for them.

Yeah, this may be the worst thing I've read in this thread.  Hopefully it was just nervous/awkward laughter and people weren't actually laughing at you.  It's just not that uncommon for people to retire in their 40s to say outright that you aren't capable of it.

[Cassie]

Yes there are internet online programs for both master's and Ph.D.'s  At first it was just for profit schools but now more state universities are joining the crowd. Also many now offer some of their regular courses to obtain a BA online. It is the wave of the future. I really think that degrees at the BA level should be a combo because you do lose something if you never have classroom debate. They discuss issues on a discussion board but it is not the same thing. 

[rocksinmyhead]

Serious, non-facetious question. Are there internet PhDs that are worth the expense of getting them?

Internet PhDs???????? There is such a thing? Please tell me you are joking…

yeah, when I think of a PhD I think of a research degree, so I am confused. is there another kind? I guess maybe in some of the humanities it would be possible to do a distance research degree, but... it would still be weird.

[Cassie]

It really depends on what type of major you want. I agree that it would be easier with the humanities.  I also am not sure if all the degrees can be done online or just certain majors.   

[Daleth]

Serious, non-facetious question. Are there internet PhDs that are worth the expense of getting them?

Internet PhDs???????? There is such a thing? Please tell me you are joking…

yeah, when I think of a PhD I think of a research degree, so I am confused. is there another kind? I guess maybe in some of the humanities it would be possible to do a distance research degree, but... it would still be weird.

Not only weird but AFAIK, professionally useless. You certainly can't become a college professor or instructor with an online PhD, and you also can't parlay an online science PhD into a research or similar position. And AFAIK there are no online PhDs that are accredited by the American Psychological Association, so in most states (possibly all) you wouldn't be able to use such a degree to get licensed as a psychologist.

There must be some avenues for such degrees but they're not the normal PhD avenues. If you're applying for a position and you're up against people with PhD's from bricks-and-mortar schools, your chances of success are extremely slim.

[annann]

Serious, non-facetious question. Are there internet PhDs that are worth the expense of getting them?

Internet PhDs???????? There is such a thing? Please tell me you are joking…

yeah, when I think of a PhD I think of a research degree, so I am confused. is there another kind? I guess maybe in some of the humanities it would be possible to do a distance research degree, but... it would still be weird.

Not only weird but AFAIK, professionally useless. You certainly can't become a college professor or instructor with an online PhD, and you also can't parlay an online science PhD into a research or similar position. And AFAIK there are no online PhDs that are accredited by the American Psychological Association, so in most states (possibly all) you wouldn't be able to use such a degree to get licensed as a psychologist.

There must be some avenues for such degrees but they're not the normal PhD avenues. If you're applying for a position and you're up against people with PhD's from bricks-and-mortar schools, your chances of success are extremely slim.

Anyone looking into a degree needs to do their homework.  When you get a degree, it does not state that it was "on-line."  If you get a degree from an accredited school (especially one with a campus) that is well known, no one will even know how you earned your degree so the impact on your resume and career is identical to one earned "on-campus."  I earned my BS from the University of the State of New York and never set foot in Abany, NY.  It was before the internet but I still did all my work off-campus.  When I applied to schools for my Masters, none of them questioned my undergraduate degree at all.  I earned my MS from Virginia Tech and again never set foot in Blacksburg, VA.  No one has ever questioned by educational credentials.

I have a friend who has been very successful.  He earned his BS at a non-accredited university that no longer exists.  He got a good job because it was a local school and people in the field knew it provided a good education.  When he learned it could become a problem for the future, he did a masters at George Washington University.  He had excellent grades and tested well on the GRE.  They did accept him provisionally--he had to achieve a 3.0 average the first term.  He did and after that, all was well.

Another friend got a BA degree in 18 months using CLEP tests, GRE tests, and some classes at the local junior college.  The entire degree (25 years ago) cost about $1000.  Then she got an MBA at an accredited school where all the classes were on Sat and Sun.  Worked full time whilr she did both degrees.  No down side for her career but then again, she was smart and an excellent worker.

People can waste a lot of time and money getting an education.  There are faster and cheaper ways but most folks don't look into them.

[Albert]

Depends what you want to do with your PhD. If it's in science and for jobs where that degree is required your potential employers will most certainly look into where you did your education, your publication record and probably will call up your academic advisor as well. If you just want to brag about having it then it doesn't matter so much from where it comes.

[Cassie]

I know someone that teaches at a state university with an online Ph.D. She did her dissertation also and flew to the college to defend it.

[Travis]

This school-related tangent reminds me of something I saw on Facebook the other day:

http://www.tickld.com/x/37-slogans-for-college-majors-if-they-were-actually-honest-

[nyxst]

I'm working on my BA through a brick and morter school that offers the same courses online. I take them online. I think earning the degree online is more difficult because you need to keep yourself incredibly organized and on task. Some teachers keep strict schedules, while others allow you to work at your own pace.  They still require live class work/lectures through streaming. They still expect group collaboration projects so you still meet classmates. I just don't have to drive 45 minutes each way to campus to sit there for an hour. And I don't have to get a sitter for my kids. I have a lot more respect for the online classes (through brick and morter schools, at least) than I ever would have imagined.

[grantmeaname]

A bachelor's is an entirely different thing than a PhD, though. Less than half of a PhD is actual coursework, and even for big parts of the coursework requirement (small seminars), it seems that the online format is a poor substitute.

[golden1]

I had a good one from the other day that made me shake my head.

There is a new person at work, a lady in her 50s who should know better.  We started chatting a bit about finances at lunch and she proudly announced that she wanted to die in debt because "you can't take it with you".  She then went on to say that if you died and had cc debt, only the cc companies would suffer.   Ummmm, no.  That is why interest rates and fees are so high, because people that are irresponsible don't pay their debts.  So actually, everyone pays your debt. 

That story also reminded me of the summer I worked at my step-father's law firm.  I ate lunch with the secretaries and one of them used to moan incessantly about her financial problems.  One days she was telling us about how her ccs were so high she would have to file for bankruptcy "again" (!!!!!). 

[MamaStache]

Here's another one for you about a co-worker that is approx. 50 yr old, and lives paycheck to paycheck.

She left work early on Thursday because her husband was just notified that he would be laid off in June (over 2 months advance notice).   She walked out an hour early teary-eyed, and the following day called in sick to work.

When I went to her desk this morning, I said "I'm sorry to hear about your husband getting laid off.  Has he heard any more details?"

She proceeded to tell me that they are expecting to lose everything (she was starting to get teary eyed again).   He will get 36 weeks severance and they are just going to try and keep the house.

I asked if he will try to find another job and she said that it was pointless because his position is in a dying field.  He is just going to  "take the summer off and spend it at the cabin with his mom." 

I feel like I shouldn't be this pissed off.  I do not feel bad for them.  It is their own fault for not building up any savings (hello emergency fund!?)   

     

[randymarsh]

Wait. 8 week's notice + 36 week's severance + 26 weeks of Unemployment, right? My god, that's like 16 months of time at partial or full salary to find a job. Heck if you get right on it, that's almost time enough to retrain in something completely new. This should not be a crisis.

I didn't think you could collect unemployment if you received severance?

[dragoncar]

Wait. 8 week's notice + 36 week's severance + 26 weeks of Unemployment, right? My god, that's like 16 months of time at partial or full salary to find a job. Heck if you get right on it, that's almost time enough to retrain in something completely new. This should not be a crisis.

I didn't think you could collect unemployment if you received severance?

Not during the severance period (if it's not a lump sum)

[MMMdude]

Certain people at work get car allowances + all of their auto related costs covered even though in alot of cases they never leave the office for business travel.  They have recently increased the monthly allowance people get, but have taken away reimbursement of repairs, tires, fuel, etc in exchange for a per KM rate on business usage only.  Well most people are up in arms about it.  The allowance is now $800 per month which is absolutely insane.  I spend on average maybe $200 per month all inclusive on my vehicle yet these people are outraged at the change saying they are worse off (ie the increased allowance does not cover their vehicle costs).  One guy was bitching that he spends $150 per month on gas PER WEEK.  He has a long drive and also a 6.7 liter massive pickup truck.....cry me a river!

[Fireman]

One guy was bitching that he spends $150 per month on gas PER WEEK.  He has a long drive and also a 6.7 liter massive pickup truck.....cry me a river!

$150 per month isn't too bad so i'm guessing it's $150 a week.  Holy crap, that's almost $8000 in gas a year!

[mgarl10024]

Someone at work told me his asset allocation for the last 10 years has been $200k in a checking account earning 1%.

I used to work with someone who had been very well paid (somewhere else!) and had a significant lump sat in a bank account being eroded by inflation.  "I really should do something about it" they'd say.