Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 8630426 times)

Dragonswan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20800 on: August 13, 2018, 11:06:28 AM »
Not totally sure if he went full hog and got that or just got the Lusso AWD.  He was commenting that he went on a long road trip down to Dusty (you know where that is, neighbor of mine) and the thing had some serious hunker down mode that meant he barely had to pay attention while it hugged the curves of the Palouse.  Sounded like a very fun ride except for the drag created by the payment book flapping the breeze behind him ;-)

Wtf is a hunker down mode?
It's what sports cars do to avoid detection by lusty dragons.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20801 on: August 13, 2018, 11:28:21 AM »
Not totally sure if he went full hog and got that or just got the Lusso AWD.  He was commenting that he went on a long road trip down to Dusty (you know where that is, neighbor of mine) and the thing had some serious hunker down mode that meant he barely had to pay attention while it hugged the curves of the Palouse.  Sounded like a very fun ride except for the drag created by the payment book flapping the breeze behind him ;-)

Wtf is a hunker down mode?
It's what sports cars do to avoid detection by lusty dragons.


Steeze

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20802 on: August 13, 2018, 12:23:28 PM »
Coworker age 65 recently spoke to me about not being able to retire for another 5 years or so as he need the max SS benefits due to very little savings  and only a small pension of a few hundred dollars a month. He has been an engineer for over 40 years.

Today he asked our HR person for (another) 401k loan to pay for his 13 year old dog's intestine surgery. This is the second such request this year, with vet bills now over $15k.

Dragonswan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20803 on: August 13, 2018, 01:01:08 PM »
Not totally sure if he went full hog and got that or just got the Lusso AWD.  He was commenting that he went on a long road trip down to Dusty (you know where that is, neighbor of mine) and the thing had some serious hunker down mode that meant he barely had to pay attention while it hugged the curves of the Palouse.  Sounded like a very fun ride except for the drag created by the payment book flapping the breeze behind him ;-)

Wtf is a hunker down mode?
It's what sports cars do to avoid detection by lusty dragons.


Mmhmm.  Some of them will even wrap themselves in chrome-like vinyl (to the tune of 6K) so when they slink around corners the sun will reflect off the coating and blind and/or disorient the dragon.  If you're really determined you can try their proving grounds where they are known to frolic by drag racing or catch one separated from the herd as it pulls out of the temperature controlled garage of a McMansion.

Rightflyer

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20804 on: August 14, 2018, 12:59:22 PM »
Coworker age 65 recently spoke to me about not being able to retire for another 5 years or so as he need the max SS benefits due to very little savings  and only a small pension of a few hundred dollars a month. He has been an engineer for over 40 years.

Today he asked our HR person for (another) 401k loan to pay for his 13 year old dog's intestine surgery. This is the second such request this year, with vet bills now over $15k.

Thank you for calming the foam...


talltexan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20805 on: August 15, 2018, 12:12:41 PM »
There is a starbucks near our workplace, so it's not strange to see their products around our office floor. But lately it seems like a bunch of the younger co-workers are walking around with Starbucks Water. It's in the same plastic cup with long green straw, but it's...water?!?

I'm a red panda

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20806 on: August 15, 2018, 12:19:32 PM »
There is a starbucks near our workplace, so it's not strange to see their products around our office floor. But lately it seems like a bunch of the younger co-workers are walking around with Starbucks Water. It's in the same plastic cup with long green straw, but it's...water?!?

Are they refilling their cups from a previous purchase to use at work?

Starbucks gives you tap water for free. Some charge 30 cents or so for the cup though.

marcela

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20807 on: August 15, 2018, 12:58:10 PM »
There is a starbucks near our workplace, so it's not strange to see their products around our office floor. But lately it seems like a bunch of the younger co-workers are walking around with Starbucks Water. It's in the same plastic cup with long green straw, but it's...water?!?

Are they refilling their cups from a previous purchase to use at work?

Starbucks gives you tap water for free. Some charge 30 cents or so for the cup though.
That would have been me at my old workplace. We had a lot of breaks where everyone would go down to the neighbouring Starbucks and I would go along to stretch my legs and generally got water. I never was charged. Probably because my coworkers were spending so much.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20808 on: August 15, 2018, 07:26:17 PM »
Not totally sure if he went full hog and got that or just got the Lusso AWD.  He was commenting that he went on a long road trip down to Dusty (you know where that is, neighbor of mine) and the thing had some serious hunker down mode that meant he barely had to pay attention while it hugged the curves of the Palouse.  Sounded like a very fun ride except for the drag created by the payment book flapping the breeze behind him ;-)

Wtf is a hunker down mode?
It's what sports cars do to avoid detection by lusty dragons.


Mmhmm.  Some of them will even wrap themselves in chrome-like vinyl (to the tune of 6K) so when they slink around corners the sun will reflect off the coating and blind and/or disorient the dragon.  If you're really determined you can try their proving grounds where they are known to frolic by drag racing or catch one separated from the herd as it pulls out of the temperature controlled garage of a McMansion.

 Finally, an explanation of the CitroŽn.

Linda_Norway

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20809 on: August 16, 2018, 07:00:43 AM »
There is a starbucks near our workplace, so it's not strange to see their products around our office floor. But lately it seems like a bunch of the younger co-workers are walking around with Starbucks Water. It's in the same plastic cup with long green straw, but it's...water?!?

Are they refilling their cups from a previous purchase to use at work?

Starbucks gives you tap water for free. Some charge 30 cents or so for the cup though.
That would have been me at my old workplace. We had a lot of breaks where everyone would go down to the neighbouring Starbucks and I would go along to stretch my legs and generally got water. I never was charged. Probably because my coworkers were spending so much.

In my old workplace there was a coffee selling place nearby as well. Some colleagues would buy the fancy coffee for the group of coffee drinkers and with that morally compel the group members to do the same thing back next time.

marcela

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20810 on: August 16, 2018, 07:22:09 AM »
There is a starbucks near our workplace, so it's not strange to see their products around our office floor. But lately it seems like a bunch of the younger co-workers are walking around with Starbucks Water. It's in the same plastic cup with long green straw, but it's...water?!?

Are they refilling their cups from a previous purchase to use at work?

Starbucks gives you tap water for free. Some charge 30 cents or so for the cup though.
That would have been me at my old workplace. We had a lot of breaks where everyone would go down to the neighbouring Starbucks and I would go along to stretch my legs and generally got water. I never was charged. Probably because my coworkers were spending so much.

In my old workplace there was a coffee selling place nearby as well. Some colleagues would buy the fancy coffee for the group of coffee drinkers and with that morally compel the group members to do the same thing back next time.
It was mostly a group of broke interns so there was no buying rounds happening. For some of them, that "coffee" was their dinner. Ah, to be 19 and working in the arts...

Michael in ABQ

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20811 on: August 18, 2018, 09:47:07 PM »
I work in the federal government and am helping my boss out with reviewing resumes for a new hire. I'm a GS-11 which has a base salary of about $62,000. The position being advertised is also a GS-11 but two people who applied made far more so my boss called them to find out why they applied for a job with much lower pay. One guy was in a HCOL area and wanted to be closer to family in our LCOL area. The second guy was local and worked for a different federal agency as a GS-12 making $94,000. When we called him to find out why he was willing to take such a dramatic pay cut he said he thought he could get the job bumped up to GS-12 and basically match his current salary. When my boss informed him that wasn't going to be possible he mentioned he had three kids in college and had just bought three new cars so he couldn't afford a pay cut.


I don't know if he meant three new (used) cars or three brand new cars but WTF. Maybe his kids got a lot of scholarships or his wife has a good income as well but I can't imagine buying one brand new car, let alone three at the same time.

SpareChange

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20812 on: August 19, 2018, 11:40:24 AM »
Coworker age 65 recently spoke to me about not being able to retire for another 5 years or so as he need the max SS benefits due to very little savings  and only a small pension of a few hundred dollars a month. He has been an engineer for over 40 years.

Today he asked our HR person for (another) 401k loan to pay for his 13 year old dog's intestine surgery. This is the second such request this year, with vet bills now over $15k.

Yikes.

KodeBlue

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20813 on: August 19, 2018, 12:46:06 PM »
Today he asked our HR person for (another) 401k loan to pay for his 13 year old dog's intestine surgery. This is the second such request this year, with vet bills now over $15k.

As an animal lover and owner of 3 dogs it always pisses me off when I hear about people subjecting a dog or cat to multiple procedures to prolong thier life. So many times times it just prolongs the animal's suffering. I don't care if you have $10M; at some point you need to do what's best for the pet. This might mean letting go and not letting them stay alive but miserable. <end rant>

frugledoc

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20814 on: August 19, 2018, 03:36:42 PM »
Today he asked our HR person for (another) 401k loan to pay for his 13 year old dog's intestine surgery. This is the second such request this year, with vet bills now over $15k.

As an animal lover and owner of 3 dogs it always pisses me off when I hear about people subjecting a dog or cat to multiple procedures to prolong thier life. So many times times it just prolongs the animal's suffering. I don't care if you have $10M; at some point you need to do what's best for the pet. This might mean letting go and not letting them stay alive but miserable. <end rant>

Same could be said for humans :)

Sun Hat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20815 on: August 19, 2018, 05:26:14 PM »
What sort of obligation, if any, do you feel to caution your friends or "work friends" about the consequences of their profligacy? A former colleague of mine is about to be medically released from the military where she earns about $80k/year. Insurance will provide her with 75% of her previous pay for 2 years, then she'll get a pension worth about $30k/year. She's amassed over $40K in consumer debt while earning $80k, so she needs to adjust her lifestyle - but doesn't see the need.

She has little home equity, a high school education, has moved back to a community with high unemployment, and has pegged her financial future on Veterans' Affairs reconsidering a claim that they've already denied, and plans to sell movie ideas to Netflix. She has few transferable skills and a condition that causes her to be in chronic pain, so her employment prospects are very limited.

She could fix her situation by using the insurance money to pay off her debts if she slashes her spending now, but how do I point her to the right path without telling her that her plans tantamount to magical thinking? Even though we don't have much in common, she's a sweet person, and I don't think that she has anyone else in her life to point her on a less destructive path. What to do?

Freedomin5

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20816 on: August 19, 2018, 05:42:24 PM »
What sort of obligation, if any, do you feel to caution your friends or "work friends" about the consequences of their profligacy? A former colleague of mine is about to be medically released from the military where she earns about $80k/year. Insurance will provide her with 75% of her previous pay for 2 years, then she'll get a pension worth about $30k/year. She's amassed over $40K in consumer debt while earning $80k, so she needs to adjust her lifestyle - but doesn't see the need.

She has little home equity, a high school education, has moved back to a community with high unemployment, and has pegged her financial future on Veterans' Affairs reconsidering a claim that they've already denied, and plans to sell movie ideas to Netflix. She has few transferable skills and a condition that causes her to be in chronic pain, so her employment prospects are very limited.

She could fix her situation by using the insurance money to pay off her debts if she slashes her spending now, but how do I point her to the right path without telling her that her plans tantamount to magical thinking? Even though we don't have much in common, she's a sweet person, and I don't think that she has anyone else in her life to point her on a less destructive path. What to do?

@Sun Hat  If she is a good friend, Iíd just invite her out for a meal to catch up, casually ask about her upcoming plans now that her discharge is imminent, and then show her the math. While her Plan A is to have the VA reconsider her claim, Iíd ask her what her Plan B was ďjust in caseĒ VA denied her claim.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 05:45:49 PM by Freedomin5 »

The Fake Cheap

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20817 on: August 19, 2018, 06:08:54 PM »
One thing I don't get at all are big weddings with honeymoons and big gifts and a wedding registry etc. Although I've personally never been to a wedding like that, in our social circle people tend to have really low-key weddings. I only hear other people's horror stories. Half of people get divorced anyway, and sometimes I think that there might be a correlation between big expensive weddings and divorce statistics.

There is. 

http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2015/01/25/expensive-wedding-higher-odds-divorce/

It is a theory of mine that the correlation exists because the people are married and get along only while the money is flowing.  Once the trips down south, the new cars, trailers, and new iPhone purchases stop because the credit cards are maxed and the line of credit is tapped, the people realize that they don't really enjoy their partner, and were only getting along/having fun with him/her while there was money to burn.

Alfred J Quack

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20818 on: August 20, 2018, 01:37:33 AM »
One thing I don't get at all are big weddings with honeymoons and big gifts and a wedding registry etc. Although I've personally never been to a wedding like that, in our social circle people tend to have really low-key weddings. I only hear other people's horror stories. Half of people get divorced anyway, and sometimes I think that there might be a correlation between big expensive weddings and divorce statistics.

There is. 

http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2015/01/25/expensive-wedding-higher-odds-divorce/

Does the inverse hold true as well? We had a Ä500,- wedding!

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20819 on: August 20, 2018, 02:43:11 AM »
how do I point her to the right path without telling her that her plans tantamount to magical thinking?
You set your own example, and talk it about enthusiastically. That probably won't work, but it has the best chance of working while not causing a rift between you and her as she gets offended that Netflix isn't going to pay her millions.

USD60k for 2 years followed by USD30k for life without having to work for it is actually pretty good if she lives in a low cost-of-living area. Let's say she lives on 25k,

Yr1: 60k income, 25k spending, debt 40k-->5k
Yr2: 60k income, 25k spending, debt 5k -->0k, savings 0k-->25k.
Yr3 and thereafter, 30k income, 5k spending, savings 25k+5k pa.

That's not huge savings but if she's receiving some sort of disability pension from her military service then she will have zero medical costs, so her savings can be for small investments, hobbies, or travel.

But she almost certainly won't do it. People don't engage in magical thinking for just a year or two out of nowhere and then stop, it's a lifelong practice. Digging further, you'll find similar thinking throughout her life, let me guess: is she also single and dreaming of a 6'4" handsome rich charming educated man who sweeps her off her feet one day? So when I say that you should discuss your own example in a conversational way, that's not in expectation of any positive change on her part as a result, but just so you can get it out of your system.

Sun Hat

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20820 on: August 20, 2018, 06:54:10 AM »
Thanks for the feedback @Kyle Schuant and @Freedomin5.

One of the few things that my friend and I have in common is that we're both women who were/will be medically released from the military. Our pensions will even be of a pretty similar amount. For me, the 70% reduction in income wasn't a big impact to my daily spending, as I had been saving over 60% of my pay anyways, so I just downsized from my almost-paid for home to a totally paid for home and called it a day. Kyle Schuant is right, hers is a lifetime of magical thinking and poor financial management. Fortunately, we're Canadian, so medical costs aren't a significant factor.

I think that Freedomin5's suggestion of asking about her Plan B is a good one, and far more tactful than anything that I could have come up with on my own. Unfortunately, I won't get to see her face to face, since I only saw her while she was passing through my city enroute her retirement destination and she was traveling with her 14 year old daughter, and I didn't want to shake her by the collar and call her crazy in front of her kid, so I just smiled and nodded when she told me her situation. I'll have to make my query by email.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20821 on: August 20, 2018, 06:59:04 AM »
... but how do I point her to the right path without telling her that her plans tantamount to magical thinking? Even though we don't have much in common, she's a sweet person, and I don't think that she has anyone else in her life to point her on a less destructive path. What to do?
I'm not very good at this, but I've seen others employ this method to great effect:  ask questions.  Don't (outwardly) judge them or say that they're in dreamland.  Ask the questions that will force them to actually think through their future.  Freedomin5 is on the right track--ask what plan B is.  Ask how much it'll cost to live in her new place.  Ask what kind of jobs are available there.  Ask how she sees her life in 5 years.  Ask the "what if" questions.  Ask her what makes her think the VA will reconsider the previously-denied claim.  Ask her what her actual spending is (does she even know?).

KodeBlue

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20822 on: August 20, 2018, 07:20:27 AM »
Today he asked our HR person for (another) 401k loan to pay for his 13 year old dog's intestine surgery. This is the second such request this year, with vet bills now over $15k.

As an animal lover and owner of 3 dogs it always pisses me off when I hear about people subjecting a dog or cat to multiple procedures to prolong thier life. So many times times it just prolongs the animal's suffering. I don't care if you have $10M; at some point you need to do what's best for the pet. This might mean letting go and not letting them stay alive but miserable. <end rant>

Same could be said for humans :)
true, but humans can generally make thier wishes known and can refuse treatment. animals can't.

Nicholas Carter

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20823 on: August 20, 2018, 09:43:07 AM »
It is a theory of mine that the correlation exists because the people are married and get along only while the money is flowing.  Once the trips down south, the new cars, trailers, and new iPhone purchases stop because the credit cards are maxed and the line of credit is tapped, the people realize that they don't really enjoy their partner, and were only getting along/having fun with him/her while there was money to burn.
Alternatively, weddings often serve as a way to leverage Sunk Cost Fallacy to keep the investment in a relationship high. The more uncertain you are in your relationship, the more magic you try to throw on it.

a286

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20824 on: August 20, 2018, 09:51:57 AM »
It is a theory of mine that the correlation exists because the people are married and get along only while the money is flowing.  Once the trips down south, the new cars, trailers, and new iPhone purchases stop because the credit cards are maxed and the line of credit is tapped, the people realize that they don't really enjoy their partner, and were only getting along/having fun with him/her while there was money to burn.
Alternatively, weddings often serve as a way to leverage Sunk Cost Fallacy to keep the investment in a relationship high. The more uncertain you are in your relationship, the more magic you try to throw on it.

This would explain so much about my BILs recent wedding. He was with his family at the hotel the day of the wedding, getting ready with his brothers, and saying how it only has a 50/50 shot anyways.

Sibley

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20825 on: August 20, 2018, 12:27:17 PM »
Today he asked our HR person for (another) 401k loan to pay for his 13 year old dog's intestine surgery. This is the second such request this year, with vet bills now over $15k.

As an animal lover and owner of 3 dogs it always pisses me off when I hear about people subjecting a dog or cat to multiple procedures to prolong thier life. So many times times it just prolongs the animal's suffering. I don't care if you have $10M; at some point you need to do what's best for the pet. This might mean letting go and not letting them stay alive but miserable. <end rant>

Same could be said for humans :)
true, but humans can generally make thier wishes known and can refuse treatment. animals can't.

Are you so sure that humans can refuse treatment? If that really were a thing, then the health insurance data would look drastically different than it does. The % of costs paid in the last year of a persons life is really high. Culturally, at least in the US, we're terrified of death and will do anything not to die. Thus ensuring that we have a horrible death in the end.

dcheesi

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20826 on: August 20, 2018, 01:50:40 PM »
It is a theory of mine that the correlation exists because the people are married and get along only while the money is flowing.  Once the trips down south, the new cars, trailers, and new iPhone purchases stop because the credit cards are maxed and the line of credit is tapped, the people realize that they don't really enjoy their partner, and were only getting along/having fun with him/her while there was money to burn.
Alternatively, weddings often serve as a way to leverage Sunk Cost Fallacy to keep the investment in a relationship high. The more uncertain you are in your relationship, the more magic you try to throw on it.
Or it could be a sign that at least one person in the relationship has unrealistic expectations about marriage. The bride or groom who just has to have their perfect dream day may also be expecting similar dream-like perfection in their married life. And/or they may see the wedding as their ultimate "finish line", and haven't thought much about the rest of their life after that.

penguintroopers

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20827 on: August 20, 2018, 03:48:16 PM »
Today he asked our HR person for (another) 401k loan to pay for his 13 year old dog's intestine surgery. This is the second such request this year, with vet bills now over $15k.

As an animal lover and owner of 3 dogs it always pisses me off when I hear about people subjecting a dog or cat to multiple procedures to prolong thier life. So many times times it just prolongs the animal's suffering. I don't care if you have $10M; at some point you need to do what's best for the pet. This might mean letting go and not letting them stay alive but miserable. <end rant>

Same could be said for humans :)
true, but humans can generally make thier wishes known and can refuse treatment. animals can't.

Are you so sure that humans can refuse treatment? If that really were a thing, then the health insurance data would look drastically different than it does. The % of costs paid in the last year of a persons life is really high. Culturally, at least in the US, we're terrified of death and will do anything not to die. Thus ensuring that we have a horrible death in the end.

We were on the periphery watching this, but my husband's family had a pastor who was with their congregation for years and became good friends. They had moved to other ministry pursuits at a different congregation, but kept in touch some. He was diagnosed with a very aggressive and advanced bladder cancer, and his prognosis for treatment and quality-of-life even if treatment was successful was pretty bleak. He turned down treatment (after lots of prayer and consulting with his wife of course). Not sure if he had to state some religious reason, but it sounded pretty much like "Nope, don't wanna" and the doctors said "well, we can't make you, so ok" and they just tried for quality of life while letting the cancer run its course.

It was a pretty sad story all around, until you considered how much he affected other's lives. The church was packed for his memorial service.

AMandM

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20828 on: August 20, 2018, 03:51:33 PM »
It is a theory of mine that the correlation exists because the people are married and get along only while the money is flowing.  Once the trips down south, the new cars, trailers, and new iPhone purchases stop because the credit cards are maxed and the line of credit is tapped, the people realize that they don't really enjoy their partner, and were only getting along/having fun with him/her while there was money to burn.
Alternatively, weddings often serve as a way to leverage Sunk Cost Fallacy to keep the investment in a relationship high. The more uncertain you are in your relationship, the more magic you try to throw on it.
Or it could be a sign that at least one person in the relationship has unrealistic expectations about marriage. The bride or groom who just has to have their perfect dream day may also be expecting similar dream-like perfection in their married life. And/or they may see the wedding as their ultimate "finish line", and haven't thought much about the rest of their life after that.

Or, a couple whose wedding was very elaborate and expensive goes into married life with deficits of both patience and money.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20829 on: August 20, 2018, 10:03:12 PM »

Are you so sure that humans can refuse treatment? If that really were a thing, then the health insurance data would look drastically different than it does. The % of costs paid in the last year of a persons life is really high. Culturally, at least in the US, we're terrified of death and will do anything not to die. Thus ensuring that we have a horrible death in the end.
The pressure to continue treatment when it's obviously futile is, from what I hear from medical friends, less often from the patient and more often from the family and medical professionals. Likewise pressure for voluntary euthanasia.

In some respects it's easier for us to bear our own suffering than watch a loved one or patient go through suffering. Live or die, we want to see their suffering end. 

lemanfan

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20830 on: August 20, 2018, 11:18:16 PM »
The pressure to continue treatment when it's obviously futile is, from what I hear from medical friends, less often from the patient and more often from the family and medical professionals. Likewise pressure for voluntary euthanasia.

This is slightly foamy, but I really do recommend listening to this podcast on a related subject:

https://tim.blog/2016/04/14/bj-miller/

The interviewee has drawn conclusions about "quality of life" vs "quantity of life" after a carrer in hospice care.

Raenia

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20831 on: August 21, 2018, 05:44:54 AM »
Are you so sure that humans can refuse treatment? If that really were a thing, then the health insurance data would look drastically different than it does. The % of costs paid in the last year of a persons life is really high. Culturally, at least in the US, we're terrified of death and will do anything not to die. Thus ensuring that we have a horrible death in the end.

As others have said, the short answer is yes, we can.  My grandmother refused treatment that could have extended her life when she was diagnosed with cancer.  She went with an in-home nursing service and enough morphine to ease her last few months, and no one tried to pressure her otherwise.  It actually wound up being a better choice, as it was a much more peaceful end than going through aggressive treatment, plus the end was predictable enough that all of her children were able to be there with her, which they almost certainly could not have done if it had stretched out months or years.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20832 on: August 21, 2018, 06:13:31 AM »
Are you so sure that humans can refuse treatment? If that really were a thing, then the health insurance data would look drastically different than it does. The % of costs paid in the last year of a persons life is really high. Culturally, at least in the US, we're terrified of death and will do anything not to die. Thus ensuring that we have a horrible death in the end.

As others have said, the short answer is yes, we can.  My grandmother refused treatment that could have extended her life when she was diagnosed with cancer.  She went with an in-home nursing service and enough morphine to ease her last few months, and no one tried to pressure her otherwise.  It actually wound up being a better choice, as it was a much more peaceful end than going through aggressive treatment, plus the end was predictable enough that all of her children were able to be there with her, which they almost certainly could not have done if it had stretched out months or years.

Yes, it is a pity that so many people still get "life enhancing" treatment when all they get are a few weeks of incredible pain or month of total mental oblivion.

Writer Terry Pratchett is famous for being a loud spoken defenders of Orang-Utans and assisted suicide for the terminally sick (he had one strange form of Alzheimers himself, but in the end died "unsupported" on it).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Pratchett%3A_Choosing_to_Die

In one of his books he writes about a lot of assorted stuff of his life and also about a few confessions of Nurses who (illegally) did such things for the suffering and how much better it would be for everyone if there were orgenized rules for those who want to die.
You can find a lot of that in his witches.

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/terry-pratchett-choosing-to-die/
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 06:18:55 AM by LennStar »

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20833 on: August 21, 2018, 09:56:28 AM »
Are you so sure that humans can refuse treatment? If that really were a thing, then the health insurance data would look drastically different than it does. The % of costs paid in the last year of a persons life is really high. Culturally, at least in the US, we're terrified of death and will do anything not to die. Thus ensuring that we have a horrible death in the end.

As others have said, the short answer is yes, we can.  My grandmother refused treatment that could have extended her life when she was diagnosed with cancer.  She went with an in-home nursing service and enough morphine to ease her last few months, and no one tried to pressure her otherwise.  It actually wound up being a better choice, as it was a much more peaceful end than going through aggressive treatment, plus the end was predictable enough that all of her children were able to be there with her, which they almost certainly could not have done if it had stretched out months or years.

Yes, you can refuse treatment, it's your body. Doctors need your consent to give you any kind of treatment. Sometimes they will push you in what they think is the "right direction" though.

I know, because I am currently choosing a certain treatment for a condition that my doctor describes as sub-optimal. I have chosen a less agressive treatment because it gives me a very high quality of life. I could get a more agressive treatment, but whether I'd end up better or worse than right now would be 50/50. As I'm very happy with my current quality of life, I see no point in going through more agressive treatment. My doctor is always talking about how much quality I could gain, but to me, what I could lose is much more important.

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20834 on: August 21, 2018, 11:20:42 AM »
Not totally sure if he went full hog and got that or just got the Lusso AWD.  He was commenting that he went on a long road trip down to Dusty (you know where that is, neighbor of mine) and the thing had some serious hunker down mode that meant he barely had to pay attention while it hugged the curves of the Palouse.  Sounded like a very fun ride except for the drag created by the payment book flapping the breeze behind him ;-)

Wtf is a hunker down mode?
I assume he was referring to some kind of sport mode.  Not familiar with the Alfa but most higher end vehicles have semi active or active dampers with tunes that can completely change the character of the vehicle.
Apparently the dynamic mode on the Alfa Romeo Stelvio makes a very noticeable difference and makes it the best handling SUV ever:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwaAfpo9cvs&t=16m15s

fuzzy math

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20835 on: August 21, 2018, 04:59:11 PM »
Coworker totaled their vehicle (directly related to stress due to spendy pants ridiculous life choices *not alcohol*) and went out new vehicle shopping the other day. "subarus are so basic"


Other coworker, upon getting off work.  "there's a $5 jewelry sale in the lobby!"  *runs off*

Neither of my coworkers are ever going to retire.

Apples

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20836 on: August 22, 2018, 01:57:06 PM »
... but how do I point her to the right path without telling her that her plans tantamount to magical thinking? Even though we don't have much in common, she's a sweet person, and I don't think that she has anyone else in her life to point her on a less destructive path. What to do?
I'm not very good at this, but I've seen others employ this method to great effect:  ask questions.  Don't (outwardly) judge them or say that they're in dreamland.  Ask the questions that will force them to actually think through their future.  Freedomin5 is on the right track--ask what plan B is.  Ask how much it'll cost to live in her new place.  Ask what kind of jobs are available there.  Ask how she sees her life in 5 years.  Ask the "what if" questions.  Ask her what makes her think the VA will reconsider the previously-denied claim.  Ask her what her actual spending is (does she even know?).

This is what I do.  It allows you to keep the relationship and also try to point out flaws in the plan without being a Debbie Downer or Too Serious or You Don't Have Faith In Me, Don't You Want Me To Succeed person.  I put on the mindset of genuinely curious, thinking they must have info they're not sharing that would make this harebrained idea actually work, and I'll just ask eager questions until we get there.  Usually the other person says "i don't know" a few times or talks themselves into a corner and changes the subject.  This works for MLM idea, house rehabbing ideas from a SIL and her bf that have very little experience (oh, that may have gotten specific...), people telling me about onions on their kid's feet will remove heavy metals from their bodies (that's actually happened), and Coworkers who just don't get it.  The main objective is to keep your tone light, conversational, enthused, interested, etc.  Don't get pointed, don't get judgey sounding, keep it very conversational and play 20 questions until the other person gives up. 

frugalfoothills

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20837 on: August 23, 2018, 08:42:15 AM »
Conversation with a coworker (age: 50) just now:

Him: "You're a lake person, you'll appreciate this. We got one of those mailer things this weekend advertising lots for sale on Lake X (about an hour away from us."

Me: "Oh yeah cool, I get those all the time:

Him: "Yeah so wife and I talked about it and we are going to go up and see it this weekend, and as long as we like it, we are going for it. We will be the proud owners of 7 acres of lakefront property!!"

Me: "Wow 7 acres, that's a lot. No house or dock on it?"

Him: "No just the lot, but we can build a house on it later. We talked about it and I think it makes the most sense to just cash out my 401k to pay for this instead of financing it."

Me: "............................................................ the whole thing?"

Him: "Yeah but I figure I can just max my contributions for the next few years and catch back up tax free!"

Me: "........................................................................................"

merula

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20838 on: August 23, 2018, 08:48:13 AM »
Conversation with a coworker (age: 50) just now:

Him: "You're a lake person, you'll appreciate this. We got one of those mailer things this weekend advertising lots for sale on Lake X (about an hour away from us."

Me: "Oh yeah cool, I get those all the time:

Him: "Yeah so wife and I talked about it and we are going to go up and see it this weekend, and as long as we like it, we are going for it. We will be the proud owners of 7 acres of lakefront property!!"

Me: "Wow 7 acres, that's a lot. No house or dock on it?"

Him: "No just the lot, but we can build a house on it later. We talked about it and I think it makes the most sense to just cash out my 401k to pay for this instead of financing it."

Me: "............................................................ the whole thing?"

Him: "Yeah but I figure I can just max my contributions for the next few years and catch back up tax free!"

Me: "........................................................................................"

It's the perfect plan! Cash out the 401k, use the next* several years to catch up, then cash out again to build the lake house!

/s

*Obviously they won't be able to max it out next year, because they'll be paying taxes on the 401k withdrawal, but after that, it's a great plan!

RWD

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20839 on: August 23, 2018, 08:51:42 AM »
Him: "We talked about it and I think it makes the most sense to just cash out my 401k to pay for this instead of financing it."

boarder42 would short circuit. That's a terrible plan!

cloudsail

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20840 on: August 23, 2018, 08:20:49 PM »
Uhhhh..... how much do the lots cost?

ysette9

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20841 on: August 23, 2018, 08:43:37 PM »
What does one do with an undeveloped lakefront lot? Camp?

Mesmoiselle

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20842 on: August 23, 2018, 09:21:51 PM »
Patient chatting with guests mentions tactics to hide receipts from the Pawn Shop from a family member who is handling her errands on her behalf while in the hospital. Patient is over 60 years old and Iím kinda thrown mentally by this- but hey, maybe they've hit hard times or something. Then patient shares one of the guests is their best friend and how much they LOVE-TO-SHOP and do so every week.

@_@

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20843 on: August 23, 2018, 10:28:23 PM »
What does one do with an undeveloped lakefront lot? Camp?

Camp, tiny house, or, ya know develop it

or just hope for land appreciation

I'd love an undeveloped lakefront lot, but I'm not gonna cash out my 401k for one

Linda_Norway

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20844 on: August 24, 2018, 12:24:29 PM »
Overheard at work by DH. The cook working in the caferaria at work is a Greek. In Norway salaries are a LOT higher than in Greece. The cook was planning to move back to Greece next year. Someone asked him if he would be able to afford a nice house there. Turns out the cook already purchased a 14! bedroom house in Greece and is in the process of renting out rooms to tourists. Next year he is planning to retire from his job as a cook and going to live in the 14 bedroom house, while renting out the rooms in the summer. :-)

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20845 on: August 24, 2018, 01:47:13 PM »
Overheard at work by DH. The cook working in the caferaria at work is a Greek. In Norway salaries are a LOT higher than in Greece. The cook was planning to move back to Greece next year. Someone asked him if he would be able to afford a nice house there. Turns out the cook already purchased a 14! bedroom house in Greece and is in the process of renting out rooms to tourists. Next year he is planning to retire from his job as a cook and going to live in the 14 bedroom house, while renting out the rooms in the summer. :-)
How dare you post such a story here! :P  I think the thread you're looking for is this one, where we share anti-anti-mustachian stories.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20846 on: August 24, 2018, 04:06:11 PM »
What does one do with an undeveloped lakefront lot? Camp?

Camp, tiny house, or, ya know develop it

or just hope for land appreciation

I'd love an undeveloped lakefront lot, but I'm not gonna cash out my 401k for one
We got a mailer for several acres of lakefront property on the lake where my husband's family owns a camp.  Only $1.6 million for 20 acres of undeveloped...swamp land.  Seriously, I looked at the map and it's that "spot" right across the lake that is basically just swamp.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20847 on: August 24, 2018, 06:15:58 PM »
What does one do with an undeveloped lakefront lot? Camp?

Camp, tiny house, or, ya know develop it

or just hope for land appreciation

I'd love an undeveloped lakefront lot, but I'm not gonna cash out my 401k for one
We got a mailer for several acres of lakefront property on the lake where my husband's family owns a camp.  Only $1.6 million for 20 acres of undeveloped...swamp land.  Seriously, I looked at the map and it's that "spot" right across the lake that is basically just swamp.

Grub farm?

ms

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20848 on: August 24, 2018, 08:20:01 PM »
Our boss today discussing with a coworker whether to move from Rogers to Bell:

"You just have to phone them and tell them you're leaving - I have 4 cell phones, the internet, home phone and cable with them - one time they reduced my monthly bill be $200!"

SunnyDays

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Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20849 on: August 25, 2018, 11:05:24 AM »









[/quote]
We got a mailer for several acres of lakefront property on the lake where my husband's family owns a camp.  Only $1.6 million for 20 acres of undeveloped...swamp land.  Seriously, I looked at the map and it's that "spot" right across the lake that is basically just swamp.
[/quote]

Well, the answer here is obvious - drain the swamp, haha