Overheard at Work

[markbike528CBX]

Extra set of wheels from Ebay, winter tires, free tireswap from the tire place I got the tires/mounting service.
They are probably getting tired of swapping tires every 1.5K to 3Kmiles.

[RetiredAt63]

We are colder here than in Toronto.  Winter tires are a given (you book the garage 2 weeks ahead minimum if you don't do your own tire change, they go on in November, off in March, good times to check the brakes and in spring do an alignment).  So much easier if they are on rims, and the winter rims are sturdier too.  It isn't that much more expensive, because your all-seasons last longer - you end up spending about the same over several years.  And getting out of your own driveway is kinda nice, my winter tires have already made the difference a few times this year and it is only January.

[gimp]

So dumb question; does everyone keep an extra set of rims with their winter tires as well, or do they get mounted and unmounted every year?

I know some places in Canada require winter tires during certain times of the year, no matter if there is snow on the ground or not. Motorcyclists complain because they can't ride even though the road is clear and it's nice out, or they face a ticket.

It depends. Usually anyone who has a garage springs for a set of cheap steelies (steel wheels - the cheapest kind), preferably used and from a junkyard. Even better if they're a half inch narrower.

However, I do know some people who just keep a set of tires in their garage without wheels to go along with them. Some shops actually offer to swap your tires twice a year if you bought your winter tires from them, for free, for the lifetime of those tires (in addition to ensuring they're balanced and rotated as appropriate.) So while it's a lot easier to own a spare set of steelies, if a shop offers you lifetime swaps, that reduces your impetus to make life easier for everyone with another set of wheels.

Besides which, fewer and fewer people do any work on their own car, so fewer people keep around fully mounted tires on wheels in order to be able to swap them at home - since they're not going to swap them at home anyways.

[BDWW]

We don't generally get a ton of snow here in Toronto, but I'd still recommend winter tires.  Our work is in the middle of a valley.  Every year we'll get at least one dumping of snow, cars will drive over the snow and pack it down to ice, and the ditches will subsequently be littered with cars that are get 3/4 of the way up the hill and then slide off to the side.

The court that I live in is one of the last streets plowed in Toronto.  If we get five inches of snow it's sometimes not possible for us to get our car to the street when we have the all-seasons on.  With winter tires?  No problem.

Then you run into the problem of other people.  You might be a great driver, but that guy who cuts you off isn't.  Winter tires mean that you have more leeway with your reaction time.  Or that black patch of ice that you hit and start spinning the car around on.


I'd never argue that you should drive recklessly in the winter, and slowing down is always a good idea when the weather's bad.  Considering the benefits that winter tires offer though (and how cheap they are), it's probably a good idea to just get some.

So dumb question; does everyone keep an extra set of rims with their winter tires as well, or do they get mounted and unmounted every year?

I have an extra set of wheels, yes. Makes it a lot easier. Over the life that I'll keep the car, it isn't a big expense at all.

Bit more expense for the future, as most tire pressure monitoring systems require in wheel sensors, so that adds quite a bit to the cost of each rim.

[Megma]

Am I the only person who thinks the LulaRoe stuff is ugly as am get out? Funky printed leggings on thick thighs is not a good look.

I had to look it up but... so ugly.  Ladies, please no.  Unless it's like ironic at an 80's party.

It's fine. Folks can wear fun patterns if they want.

Quit being so uptight.

I heard someone call these Yoga pants. Still not sure they are or aren't the same thing. Anyhow - had a shapely young woman walk through the shop area at work in yoga pants. So many of the guys took notice I was seriously worried one of them might loose a finger to a power tool.

She knew what she was doing. Everyone else knew what she was doing too.

Leggings and yoga pants are similar but not the same.  Leggings are thinner and tighter, I'd say even more form firing than yoga pants.  Though I'd be willing to bet most men can't tell the difference. I'd say neither are work appropriate as pants. This should be obvious as yoga pants are designed for yoga but anyway....

Back to the infatuation of my coworkers with the crazy over priced lularoe...a few days ago CW confesses she bought 8 pair of LLR last week (our office was closed for the holidays). That's 200 worth. This is a CW who i know very recently had to transfer her credit card debit to an interest free card.

Edited to fix typos.

[gimp]

Bit more expense for the future, as most tire pressure monitoring systems require in wheel sensors, so that adds quite a bit to the cost of each rim.

My corvette's OEM TPMS sensors are $32 each. Very affordable. Also pretty straightforward to initialize - you use a big magnet, and the dashboard's built-in DIC.
My buick uses wheel speed to determine if one tire is low. A much simpler, basic system, that doesn't work nearly as well, but is "free" (because wheel speed sensors are already in place for ABS and traction control.)

However, some cars have TPMS sensors that range from $80 through $150, and some even demand dealer initialization (which you can usually DIY, but it's a big pain.) I know a guy with a Porsche of some kind who spent $1000 for the dealer to put in and initialize four new sensors.

Then there are aftermarket TPMS sensors, some of which are perfectly good, and many of which are just terrible. I recommend buying OEM.

With all of that said, nothing prevents you from simply driving without TPMS half the year... just check your tire pressure as needed. My corvette has no TPMS sensors because the previous owner didn't get them when he put bigger wheels on. I'll be buying new ones shortly since I need new tires, thankfully it's only about $140 for the entire set, but in any event, I've put thousands of miles on it with no pressure sensors and lived to tell the tale. And believe me, I abused the tires (high speed and frequent high acceleration or deceleration) much more than most people abuse their tires.

[desk_jockey]

Leggings and yoga pants are similar but not the same.  Leggings are thinner and tighter, I'd day even more firm firing than yoga pants.  Though I'd be willing to bet most men can't tell the difference. ...

I'd say most men don't care the difference.  I'd say most of the time we are looking at the form, not the materials or the patterns.

You are correct that leggings and yoga pants are not appropriate dress for work.   Apparently, however, due to the "comfort" of these outfits, they are becoming common dress for air travel.  This has gone a long way towards alleviating the pain of waiting in TSA queues and gate areas. 

[crispy]

Am I the only person who thinks the LulaRoe stuff is ugly as am get out? Funky printed leggings on thick thighs is not a good look.

I had to look it up but... so ugly.  Ladies, please no.  Unless it's like ironic at an 80's party.

It's fine. Folks can wear fun patterns if they want.

Quit being so uptight.

I heard someone call these Yoga pants. Still not sure they are or aren't the same thing. Anyhow - had a shapely young woman walk through the shop area at work in yoga pants. So many of the guys took notice I was seriously worried one of them might loose a finger to a power tool.

She knew what she was doing. Everyone else knew what she was doing too.

Leggings and yoga pants are similar but not the same.  Leggings are thinner and tighter, I'd day even more firm firing than yoga pants.  Though I'd be willing to bet most men can't tell the difference. I'd say neither are work appropriate as pants. This should be obvious as yoga pants are designed for yoga but anyway....

Back to the infatuation of my coworkers with the crazy over priced lularoe...a few days ago CW confesses she bought 8 pair of LLR last week (our office was closed for the holidays). That's 200 worth. This is a CW who i know very recently had to transfer her credit card debit to an interest free card.

Leggings can be adorable, but I had to see my chunky coworker in a pair deocarated with whales today. WHALES! 

[gimp]

Too on the nose, crispy?

[Taran Wanderer]

You are correct that leggings and yoga pants are not appropriate dress for work.   Apparently, however, due to the "comfort" of these outfits, they are becoming common dress for air travel.  This has gone a long way towards alleviating the pain of waiting in TSA queues and gate areas.

Lol, too true.  :-)

[Taran Wanderer]

So dumb question; does everyone keep an extra set of rims with their winter tires as well, or do they get mounted and unmounted every year?

I started buying winter snow tires after putting my car in the ditch one snowy day.  No ditch problems since.

The first few years, I had the shop swap them onto the rims fall and spring.  Then I realized it was a better idea to get a set of winter wheels.  I went cheap and got steel wheels.  They looked like crap, and they never balanced correctly, so last year I went back to the wheel swap.

I recently got a new(er) car, and since it is younger, I decided to upgrade the winter wheel/tire situation.  Fortunately, the old tires still have a couple of seasons in them, and they fit the new(er) car.  But since I expect to be driving this car for the next ten years at least, I went ahead and bought a decent set of aftermarket wheels.  I bought them darker to hide the winter grime, and I couldn't be happier with the look, the ride, and the ability to quickly swap them at home rather than drive to the shop and wait for them to do it.  I'd actually prefer to swap my own wheels so that I can rotate them at the same time.  It's faster to do it at home than load them up, drive to the shop, wait around, drive home, unload them.  Now if I could just get someone to make me popcorn while I swap them...

With the new(er) car, I have the joy of TPMS, and being the semi-cheapskate that I am, I decided to not buy the sensors for the new wheels.  The shop would mount the tires to the wheels, but not mount the wheels to the car.  This was fine because it saved me $250 for sensors.  BUT, now I have a constant tire pressure reminder light on my dash, and it's also keeping me from resetting the service light from the recent oil change.

But shoot, I saved $250, so well worth it.

[nnls]

A guy at work is just telling us he has purchased a bike for $10000 and is now trying to work out how to tell his wife. He is considering telling her he has quit smoking and he will use his smoking money to pay off the bike, but he was telling us this just after he came back from having a cigarette so not too sure how that will work out for him

 He also doesnt have a licence so the shop wont let him take the bike (that he is paying for) until he gets his learners permit

$10,000 on a presumably-new bike which is about to get dropped by a learner rider? Winning.

LAMS bikes tend to have solid re-sale value because there is always a cohort of new riders who need to do their time on a 650, but he could have had reasonable learner bike for a third of that price.

yes new, on 2% interest. He didnt want a second hand one because he wouldnt have been able to get a loan for it

And doesn't he deserve a new bike as a treat for quitting smoking...? Oh, wait.

It gets worse really, since earlier this year they refinanced their mortgage to consolidate all their debts (I think they had about 50k in personal loans/ car loans/ cc debt) and by the sounds of it they will be back in the same position in another 12 months

And he has now lost his job, so I am not too sure how he will go

[arebelspy]

Oof.  Thanks for the follow up nnls!

Guy will probably lament his bad luck.

[nnls]

Oof.  Thanks for the follow up nnls!

Guy will probably lament his bad luck.

most likely. The world was always out to get him

[Playing with Fire UK]

Oof.  Thanks for the follow up nnls!

Guy will probably lament his bad luck.

most likely. The world was always out to get him

Yes, I often find that when I make no preparation at all for things I know could happen that the world conspires against me. I blame Thor.

[Linea_Norway]

So dumb question; does everyone keep an extra set of rims with their winter tires as well, or do they get mounted and unmounted every year?

I think every person in Norway has an extra set of complete wheels. That is easiest to change twice a year, or more often if the weather is unstable in spring.

[LeRainDrop]

Oof.  Thanks for the follow up nnls!

Guy will probably lament his bad luck.

most likely. The world was always out to get him

Yes, I often find that when I make no preparation at all for things I know could happen that the world conspires against me. I blame Thor.

So dumb question; does everyone keep an extra set of rims with their winter tires as well, or do they get mounted and unmounted every year?

I think every person in Norway has an extra set of complete wheels. That is easiest to change twice a year, or more often if the weather is unstable in spring.

I blame Thor for this, too.  (I couldn't help myself with those two posts being consecutive, though unrelated.)

[JkOk]

As a recent convert to Mustachianism, why not make my first post on the thread with 331 pages.

My colleague stated to me today that she was looking at leasing a new Lexus. She figured she needed to get rid of her (unknown type) 2012 model car that she bought new "before it loses too much money". As an accountant by trade you would think she'd have a vague idea about the pattern of depreciation for cars...

[arebelspy]

As a recent convert to Mustachianism, why not make my first post on the thread with 331 pages.

Welcome!  :)

My colleague stated to me today that she was looking at leasing a new Lexus. She figured she needed to get rid of her (unknown type) 2012 model car that she bought new "before it loses too much money". As an accountant by trade you would think she'd have a vague idea about the pattern of depreciation for cars...

How does anyone not understand cars lose their value most quickly up front?  Silly.  :)

[Metric Mouse]

So dumb question; does everyone keep an extra set of rims with their winter tires as well, or do they get mounted and unmounted every year?

I think every person in Norway has an extra set of complete wheels. That is easiest to change twice a year, or more often if the weather is unstable in spring.

Thanks. An additional expense I don't factor into my car purchases.

[Kitsune]

As a recent convert to Mustachianism, why not make my first post on the thread with 331 pages.

My colleague stated to me today that she was looking at leasing a new Lexus. She figured she needed to get rid of her (unknown type) 2012 model car that she bought new "before it loses too much money". As an accountant by trade you would think she'd have a vague idea about the pattern of depreciation for cars...

I just, JUST (like, yesterday afternoon) had that conversation with my dad about my mom's car. ARGH. PEOPLE. THINK.

"But there's 140K KM on it, it's time to trade it in before it loses more money."

NO. You just paid it off. What you have is a depreciating asset that runs well, is well-maintained, and has no payments due on it. And is depreciating more slowly. WHY would you want to sell it now and pay MORE money on a newer asset that will depreciate faster??

You could sell it now. Or you could sell it in 2-3 years, for 2-3K less. If you sell it now, you will have 400$/month car payments, miminum. So... 2-3K extra on selling your car vs 10-14K in payments over that SAME time. EVEN IF the car needs 1-2K in maintenance over that time, keeping the car you have is STILL A BARGAIN. And given the amount mom drives (for Reasons, it makes sense, no judging), she'd be looking at a newer car in 4 years EVEN WITH A NEW ONE NOW. So you're looking at 10K total savings, minimum? KEEP THE DAMNED CAR. 

Fortunately, in this case, I work with/for my dad, and he knows what my personal finances look like vs his, AND what his company finances before/after I took over contract negotiating and billing looked like, so he's VERY inclined to listen to me as 'someone who clearly knows more than me a is working miraces I don't understand and appreciate with money'. There's something to be said for parents willing to learn from their kids.

[Ann]

As a recent convert to Mustachianism, why not make my first post on the thread with 331 pages.

My colleague stated to me today that she was looking at leasing a new Lexus. She figured she needed to get rid of her (unknown type) 2012 model car that she bought new "before it loses too much money". As an accountant by trade you would think she'd have a vague idea about the pattern of depreciation for cars...

I can't stand this!!  Whyyyy is there such pervasive misinformation out there?  My friend was talking about the same thing - time to get a new car because her boyfriend says her current one will take a big hit on depreciation once it's paid off/warranty is out.  I think the warranty thing is partially true (as in, *if* you were going to trade in your car it is much better to do it a month before the warranty than a month after) but she truly had the impression that the depreciation ramps UP as the car ages.  What?

I think I convinced her that she was misinformed -- at least I emphasized to not just to take her boyfriend's word for it (or mine) and to try to do some independent research.  She was never planning to drive until the wheels came off because she likes the new features of newer cars.   Which, okay, that's not my thing but at least it's honest and true: Buy a new car because you like new cars and you like new technology -- but please please  don't buy a new car because your old one it going to start depreciating faster!!

It irritates me as well when intelligent women just glom on to whatever the closest male says as true in regard to cars/finance/politics.  (I know nothing about cars but this particular issue is really more financial than automotive anyway).

[Prairie Stash]

So dumb question; does everyone keep an extra set of rims with their winter tires as well, or do they get mounted and unmounted every year?

I think every person in Norway has an extra set of complete wheels. That is easiest to change twice a year, or more often if the weather is unstable in spring.

Thanks. An additional expense I don't factor into my car purchases.

Not necessarily, there's another solution. Winter tires shouldn't be swapped on low annual mileage vehicles according to the tire manufacturers recommendations. Since winter tires are meant to make cars safer, lets not endanger people. Tires should be replaced at 7-10 year intervals regardless of wear due to ozone destroying the side walls which can cause blowouts. In practice, my winter tires are rated for 60,000 km, I drive under 5,000 km/year meaning they will be due for replacement before they wear out. Its assumed most people drive 20,000km/year, that's the reason this is rarely discussed, most people wear out their tires long before sidewall damage becomes significant.

Chrysler, Ford and GM all recommend original tires should be replaced after 6 years, other place vary but in general old tires are bad. Most often its the spare tires that are the worst, in used cars they can be pretty old.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=138

[mtn]

So dumb question; does everyone keep an extra set of rims with their winter tires as well, or do they get mounted and unmounted every year?

I think every person in Norway has an extra set of complete wheels. That is easiest to change twice a year, or more often if the weather is unstable in spring.

Thanks. An additional expense I don't factor into my car purchases.

Not a big one though over the life of a car. I can keep my "summer" tires longer because I'm not using them in the winter; the winter tires last longer because I'm not using them in the summer. The wheels are cheap steel wheels found on craigslist. I paid $350 for my wheels AND snow tires on my last car.

[RetiredAt63]

Yes, in the long run the costs are about the same.  It is a lot easier on the tires to not be taken on and off rims twice a year.  And selling a car, there is more value if both sets of tires are included, you can ask for more money (or save the set not on the car and sell separately).  Wouldn't UV damage also depend on how much time the car is outside when there is UV light?  Here there is almost no UV in the sunlight in winter.  A car that is garaged most of the time (i.e. instead of parked in the sun, not talking driving time) should also have better tire life.

I don't understand Prairie Stash's quote: Winter tires shouldn't be swapped on low annual mileage vehicles according to the tire manufacturers recommendations.   Winter tires should be on a car when temperatures are cold, and all seasons should be on the car the rest of the time.  Maybe summer tires where summers are super hot, but then I would guess in those places the winter is when the all seasons are needed.  I don't see how mileage has anything to do with what tires are on the car, driving conditions (temperature) matter.

[mtn]

I don't understand Prairie Stash's quote: Winter tires shouldn't be swapped on low annual mileage vehicles according to the tire manufacturers recommendations.   Winter tires should be on a car when temperatures are cold, and all seasons should be on the car the rest of the time.  Maybe summer tires where summers are super hot, but then I would guess in those places the winter is when the all seasons are needed.  I don't see how mileage has anything to do with what tires are on the car, driving conditions (temperature) matter.

I think he's just saying that tires in general can wear out (age out) before they've hit their mileage "limit".

[gimp]

Tires should be replaced at 7-10 year intervals regardless of wear

...

Chrysler, Ford and GM all recommend original tires should be replaced after 6 years, other place vary but in general old tires are bad. Most often its the spare tires that are the worst, in used cars they can be pretty old.

I agree with everyone else and disagree with you. Six years for tires you need to get you around corners. That's the limit. Eight is if you're driving only in straight lines and never braking or accelerating hard.

[kms]

I have another story, this time it's my wife contributing :-)

She's just started a new job and while she does try to bring her own lunch every day occasionally she does go out for lunch with her colleagues solely for the aspect of socializing and getting to know them, which makes sense.

Anyway, she was approached by one of her colleagues yesterday morning and asked whether or not she felt like going out to lunch later that day and how she felt about Sushi. Her response was somewhere along the lines of "Sure why not, I can't afford going out every day but it's been a while so let's do it". To which her colleague apparently responded "Yeah, I can't really afford it either but I checked my bank account on monday and realized I had a little bit of money left in my savings account, so this week I'm eating out every day!"

[cheapass]

I have another story, this time it's my wife contributing :-)

She's just started a new job and while she does try to bring her own lunch every day occasionally she does go out for lunch with her colleagues solely for the aspect of socializing and getting to know them, which makes sense.

Anyway, she was approached by one of her colleagues yesterday morning and asked whether or not she felt like going out to lunch later that day and how she felt about Sushi. Her response was somewhere along the lines of "Sure why not, I can't afford going out every day but it's been a while so let's do it". To which her colleague apparently responded "Yeah, I can't really afford it either but I checked my bank account on monday and realized I had a little bit of money left in my savings account, so this week I'm eating out every day!"

That's why they call it "disposable" income after all. You gotta get rid of it, otherwise it sits around and rots just like produce!

[frugledoc]

Some good new posts but please people let that tire foam be short lived.

[crispy]

Too on the nose, crispy?

Yep. Even she made as joke about it.

[gimp]

Some good new posts but please people let that tire foam be short lived.

Bro, I will tire you out talking about rubber.

For example, did you guys know that tires have gotten massively better over time? A large reason why classic muscle cars were actually pretty shitty to drive (especially by modern standards) is that their tires sucked. If you put modern rubber on a late-60s muscle car, it will feel amazing compared to how it used to.

[Taran Wanderer]

Some good new posts but please people let that tire foam be short lived.

What, you're tired of treading through threads of tires?

[BuffaloStache]

If you put modern rubber on a late-60s muscle car, it will feel amazing compared to how it used to.

There is a seriously inappropriate joke just waiting there... :-P

[Taran Wanderer]

If you put modern rubber on a late-60s muscle car, it will feel amazing compared to how it used to.

There is a seriously inappropriate joke just waiting there... :-P

Like...   If you put modern rubber on a late-60s muscle, it will feel amazing compared to how it used to...

[crispy]

I started a new job in November because my old company was having major financial issues. I found out yesterday that old company decided to shut down my division and restructure. All employees are being asked to interview for the few new jobs so 2/3 will be unemployed and the other 1/3 will take a paycut.  I was sharing this news with my new coworkers who were all sympathetic and many expressed how difficult one it would be to be hit with a sudden job loss. One guy later approached me and let me know he sold Primerica on the side so if I had the contact info for any of my former coworkers he would be glad to help them rollover their 401k and share a business opportunity... Really dude?  At least I know to avoid him I the future. Fortunately most of my new coworkers are good people (even if they occasionally wear ugly leggings!).

[BuffaloStache]

I had to google Primerica because I wasn't sure what it was... Wow- trying to offer what I'm sure are high fees or commissioned investment products and 'financial advising' to people who just lost their jobs is pretty low.

[DutchGirl]

My mother bought me one... (...) And unfortunately she got a plan rather than a pay-as-you-go. (Considering how rarely I use the thing, $50/month is far too much.)

Let me get this straight: she bought you a phone for say $200 or so, and then she had you sign up for a plan that costs $50/month for probably two years? (Total amount: $600/year, $1200 if it's a two year plan). That's ... a terrible gift. You should have refused, and you should *not* have signed the contract for the plan.

I bought a $65 phone (a wiko) and pay $9 per month for my plan (the plan includes 1000 MB of data of which I use 700, and 200 minutes of which I use 50-150).

Again, I think it's a terrible gift. Make sure she never does it again.

My uncle once, in 1986 or so, gave me and my siblings a puppy, without any previous discussion with my parents. We, the kids, loved it. Looking back, it was a terrible gift. My parents took care of the dog for 16 years, it became a part of our family, but given that it was a mixed breed, it cost my uncle probably $30 or so at that time, and my parents had at least $400/year costs because of it (food, shelter, vet).

I think your mother's gift is getting close. At least she didn't buy you a living, breathing thing.

[MgoSam]

My uncle once, in 1986 or so, gave me and my siblings a puppy, without any previous discussion with my parents. We, the kids, loved it. Looking back, it was a terrible gift. My parents took care of the dog for 16 years, it became a part of our family, but given that it was a mixed breed, it cost my uncle probably $30 or so at that time, and my parents had at least $400/year costs because of it (food, shelter, vet).

I think your mother's gift is getting close. At least she didn't buy you a living, breathing thing.

Yikes! Yeah I had a good friend joke that she was going to buy me a puppy when I bought my house and I nearly freaked out. My friend was kidding, but she is capable of doing something like this without thinking about the consequences. I would love to get a dog someday but when I do it'll be when I am home more and it'll be an older dog from a shelter.

[kayvent]

I just thought of a guy I used to work with back in my old job in NJ!

He said he wasn't paying off his student loans because he was so good at picking stocks that he'd been beating the market since he graduated college. He also lived in a really pricey Manhattan neighborhood and owned a car. He used to tell everybody, especially the twentysomethings like me, about all of his super rich classmates who made like $300k+ right out of college on Wall Street or in startups, and would buy him really expensive champagne and scotch all the time because he was just such a great guy.

I'm pretty sure he was making $95,000 at the most. Which is a lot, even for NYC, but when you have a car, loans, and work out of state (NJ, which basically double-taxes out of state workers), everything about his lifestyle screamed that he was one or two mistakes from being in an awful place.

He may have said that but was he? I am curious. The last seven years have been killers and excluding the nosedive in 2008/2009, we've been stellar since 2002 too. When I hear people say they are great investors I often don't hear them actually comparing their results against an index.

[Step37]

My mother bought me one... (...) And unfortunately she got a plan rather than a pay-as-you-go. (Considering how rarely I use the thing, $50/month is far too much.)

Let me get this straight: she bought you a phone for say $200 or so, and then she had you sign up for a plan that costs $50/month for probably two years? (Total amount: $600/year, $1200 if it's a two year plan). That's ... a terrible gift. You should have refused, and you should *not* have signed the contract for the plan.

I bought a $65 phone (a wiko) and pay $9 per month for my plan (the plan includes 1000 MB of data of which I use 700, and 200 minutes of which I use 50-150).

Again, I think it's a terrible gift. Make sure she never does it again.

My uncle once, in 1986 or so, gave me and my siblings a puppy, without any previous discussion with my parents. We, the kids, loved it. Looking back, it was a terrible gift. My parents took care of the dog for 16 years, it became a part of our family, but given that it was a mixed breed, it cost my uncle probably $30 or so at that time, and my parents had at least $400/year costs because of it (food, shelter, vet).

I think your mother's gift is getting close. At least she didn't buy you a living, breathing thing.

This made me lol. My mom got me a puppy for my 21st birthday - I REALLY, REALLY wanted a dog and I maintain that it is still the best gift I've ever received... BUT, in 20+ years hindsight, obviously not a smart move financially. Ah well, we made it through:)

A couple years after the puppy gift, I was given another expense from my parents, a cell phone! I probably wanted this, too, but that REALLY is a terrible gift if not specifically asked for! It was many years before I had a job that took over the expense of the phone. It never occurred to me back then that it was a silly, unnecessary expense.

I'm definitely following an MMM lifestyle now (as much as I'm able with a 30-minute car commute!), and I just shake my head at my parents. They're well-off financially, so I will never have to look after them in that respect. The 12 acres of huge house, three garages and multiple outbuildings FULL OF STUFF concerns me greatly, however, and they have no plan whatsoever to deal with it. Anyway, this is a discussion for a different thread.

[EricNYC]

I just thought of a guy I used to work with back in my old job in NJ!

He said he wasn't paying off his student loans because he was so good at picking stocks that he'd been beating the market since he graduated college. He also lived in a really pricey Manhattan neighborhood and owned a car. He used to tell everybody, especially the twentysomethings like me, about all of his super rich classmates who made like $300k+ right out of college on Wall Street or in startups, and would buy him really expensive champagne and scotch all the time because he was just such a great guy.

I'm pretty sure he was making $95,000 at the most. Which is a lot, even for NYC, but when you have a car, loans, and work out of state (NJ, which basically double-taxes out of state workers), everything about his lifestyle screamed that he was one or two mistakes from being in an awful place.

He may have said that but was he? I am curious. The last seven years have been killers and excluding the nosedive in 2008/2009, we've been stellar since 2002 too. When I hear people say they are great investors I often don't hear them actually comparing their results against an index.

I really don't know for sure! We didn't get into a deep discussion about it. Somehow student loans came up, I mentioned I'd paid mine off, and he said that it wasn't worth it for him because he had such a good understanding of the stock market. Given he was a champion-level BSer otherwise, I'm not sure that any of that was true.

[cheapass]

I really don't know for sure! We didn't get into a deep discussion about it. Somehow student loans came up, I mentioned I'd paid mine off, and he said that it wasn't worth it for him because he had such a good understanding of the stock market. Given he was a champion-level BSer otherwise, I'm not sure that any of that was true.

He sounds like a real savant. I mean, professional investors that spend 12 hours a day studying fundamentals/technicals can't beat the market but this guy has a gift!

[TheGrimSqueaker]

I really don't know for sure! We didn't get into a deep discussion about it. Somehow student loans came up, I mentioned I'd paid mine off, and he said that it wasn't worth it for him because he had such a good understanding of the stock market. Given he was a champion-level BSer otherwise, I'm not sure that any of that was true.

He sounds like a real savant. I mean, professional investors that spend 12 hours a day studying fundamentals/technicals can't beat the market but this guy has a gift!

Yes: for BS. Who knows, he may have a future in politics.

[HydroJim]

"we're living in a depression and they don't want you to know"

This guy is a very anti big government and conspiracy theory kind of guy. The same guy says he doesn't contribute to his HSA and 401k because "you don't control your own money, they do"

Meanwhile, he sits on his butt all day and probably makes over $100k annually.

Sigh.

[Just Joe]

My mother bought me one... (...) And unfortunately she got a plan rather than a pay-as-you-go. (Considering how rarely I use the thing, $50/month is far too much.)

Let me get this straight: she bought you a phone for say $200 or so, and then she had you sign up for a plan that costs $50/month for probably two years? (Total amount: $600/year, $1200 if it's a two year plan). That's ... a terrible gift. You should have refused, and you should *not* have signed the contract for the plan.

I bought a $65 phone (a wiko) and pay $9 per month for my plan (the plan includes 1000 MB of data of which I use 700, and 200 minutes of which I use 50-150).

Again, I think it's a terrible gift. Make sure she never does it again.

My uncle once, in 1986 or so, gave me and my siblings a puppy, without any previous discussion with my parents. We, the kids, loved it. Looking back, it was a terrible gift. My parents took care of the dog for 16 years, it became a part of our family, but given that it was a mixed breed, it cost my uncle probably $30 or so at that time, and my parents had at least $400/year costs because of it (food, shelter, vet).

I think your mother's gift is getting close. At least she didn't buy you a living, breathing thing.

Had the "you don't need a cellphone yet" discussion with our tween not 5 mins ago. No need for one. We can afford it but why? I share my pay-as-go with the tween whenever necessary b/c I don't really need a mobile except for emergency calls from school/activities for Dad's Taxi service.

Its more about keeping up with the Janes and Johnnys than anything else... This won't be fun...

[RyanAtTanagra]

Its more about keeping up with the Janes and Johnnys than anything else... This won't be fun...

Unfortunately, that's not going to be the case for the current generation.  As all of your kid's friends get cell phones, they're going to start communicating constantly via text, and if yours isn't part of that communication circle, they are going to feel (and possibly be) very left out.  Might not need a data plan, but a cheap smartphone w/ texting may go a long way.  As a kid that felt left out a lot, it's not a good feeling and it has long-lasting effects, so please don't dismiss it out of hand.

[Just Joe]

I know. I was the out of the loop kid growing up too. I became a more independent person for it but I know our tween is motivated to be more social than DW or I at that age... Not sure it will grow his independence or just frustrate him. His best tween friend got a new iPhone this past Christmas. -eye roller-

I'm open to any suggestions from everyone...

[financialfreedomsloth]

I know. I was the out of the loop kid growing up too. I became a more independent person for it but I know our tween is motivated to be more social than DW or I at that age... Not sure it will grow his independence or just frustrate him. His best tween friend got a new iPhone this past Christmas. -eye roller-

I'm open to any suggestions from everyone...

Moto G's are pretty good phones. And while not an iphone should be acceptable enough to be in the hip category. The Samsung galaxy class has some models aimed to young people as well, huawei honor is also a cheaper sub brand of huawei aimed at younger people. Ask what kind of phones his friends are using (off course eliminating the expensive iphone).

Perhaps devise a 'point' system, offer him a choice between three phones at three different prices and 'points' and then let him earn it via chores in the house/garden.

Good moment to teach him about budgetting: go with a pre paid data plan in the beginning so he learnes to control his data use (explain that on wi fi is 'free' but the mobiel date costs money). Texts and data is what they use, so no need for lots of call minutes. Here in Belgium they have pre paid bundles targetted to teenagers, 10 euro for insane data and texts volume and it is good for a month. If they blow the volume in 10 days, well it will be wi fi only until the end of the month then ..

[Linea_Norway]

I have started bringing my own lunch to work and eat it in the canteen with my colleagues who buy food there. Some people are asking why I do this. I have explained that a lunch with a fixed price makes that I tend to overeat. I also don't tolerate onions, so eating the soup causes me to get a bloating belly. And I also mention that I want to save 80 dollars a month. Then a colleague commented that our canteen is not expensive. No, it is not for what you get for it, but 80 dollars a month is still 880 dollars per year. Easily saved by bringing my own lunch. And I treat myself on a canteen lunch every now and then.