Overheard at Work

[Travis]

Military retirement ceremonies...

One more mandatory formation...

During the 1990s drawdown it got so bad that my spouse spent several months attending an average of three retirement ceremonies per week.  At the end of that period the command shifted to a monthly group ceremony, and that had 5-15 honorees for a couple of years.

A couple weeks before I left on terminal leave, my department invited me to a BBQ at our Damage Control/Firefighting Complex.  First we ran our staff instructors (me included) through the flooding & firefighting trainers one more time for proficiency (complex casualty scenarios, no holds barred).  It was an exhausting team-building workout but it was (hopefully) the last time I'll have to handle those problems.  Then we fired up the gas grills and had ourselves a real pau hana party.  That was a much better way to say farewell than a formal ceremony.   

I must have written over two dozen letters of recommendation during my last few months there.  That was the real retirement benefit-- getting the best troops selected and promoted for the programs that they wanted.

The retirement of a senior officer (including the change of command ceremony) can tie up the efforts of most of a command for at least a week.  I've never understood that application of taxpayer dollars.

On Army installations this is a monthly event with units tasked to provide escorts, color guards and the like similar to a change of command.  I haven't met many retirees who really enjoy the pomp since it feels like the Army putting them through one more dog and pony show.  I still have about a decade to go, but when it's my turn unless the entire family can reasonably be there I'd rather just pass and have a big party at my house.

[odput]

If you're bored then you're boring
The agony in the irony is killing me.

This is the age of the internet

The internet contains everything in the whole wide world ever

Im glad I struck a chord here...From reading MMM, which, I really ascribe to and enjoy, I get the impression that a lot of people here think that retirement is all Hawaiian shirts and sunny skies. Now, you guys that are aspiring to this but are not there yet, great! Just be forewarned that it is not as great as you think it is. It was at first but it wears off. You will see. Enjoy!

Surely you can find something interesting to read/learn on the cold and shitty days

Interesting perspective and thanks for the civil discourse on what is obviously the core topic of the whole community...I've seen less important topics degrade pretty quickly when opposing views come to a head.  I guess all we can say is that each of us will discover what it is like when we get there, and it is important to know that not everyday is sunshine and rainbows.

In an attempt to get back on topic, I can only add that I have very little to add...in my current workplace everyone here is pretty frugal with the office kitchen tables being crowded at lunch time most days and nary a car fancier than a Honda CRV in the parking lot.

Anyone else feel left out of this thread because they work with reasonable people?

[CommonCents]

Anyone else feel left out of this thread because they work with reasonable people?

lol, yes, that's why I posted a positive story above, about an attempt to go thrift store shopping with a coworker for our first "non-work" activity.  Some of my coworkers are a little nutty - just learned one coworker has *three* houses (even if at least 1, maybe more are in cheap areas), and while he's in the twilight of his career, he's akin to a paralegal, working for the state, so not that rich and wealthy.  But most are reasonable, with a few more MMM than me, biking every day, bringing food every day, and thrift shopping all furniture purchases, living in smaller spaces, etc.

[Apples]

Not my coworker, but my fiance's coworker:

He got fired 2 days ago.  He was late to work consistently and always the first to leave.  They are in outdoor work that is done in teams, so everyone should leave around the same time based on any small machine shop/office tasks that might need to be completed at the end of the day.  He ALWAYS was the first out of the door.  He also doesn't seem to take any interest in learning the craft and hasn't gotten his CDL within the allotted time frame.  His supervisor mentioned it several times, and he said he didn't have enough money to pay for the test.  The supervisor said the company would front the charge then take it out of his paycheck at around $5/week.  He still didn't do it.  Anyway, he ended up fired.

During the actual "firing" conversation, my fiance overheard him saying (this is a tiny office of 4 people-not really anywhere behind closed doors) that he has money problems that have been distracting him and he can't lose the $5/week (he will get a $1/hour pay raise for getting the CDL...).  Meanwhile, my fiance says that every day he goes out for breakfast and usually grabs dinner, always has a Sheetz coffee cup with him, talks about going out drinking with the boys every week, smokes, etc.  He was saying it was too hard to make rent, and now he doesn't know what he'll do.  More in a defeated way than a feel-sorry-for-me way.  That guy doesn't have money problems, he has priority problems.

[horsepoor]

Anyone else feel left out of this thread because they work with reasonable people?

Haha, yes!  I work with a bunch of biologist types, so we're naturally wired to recycle and drive hybrid vehicles.  I do have a coworker who's rather unmustashian, but nowhere near the levels that many of these people take it to.  With a certain sector of my coworkers, big new trucks as daily drivers tends to be the biggest offense.  No one is into $4,000 handbags though, for sure.  I shop almost exclusively at TJ Maxx and I'm one of the best-dressed in the office (good to know I *could* wear Levi's almost every day and be fine).

[tmac]

I'm a SAHP, so an argument can be made the the grocery store is part of my workplace, right?

I was in line, putting my stuff up on the conveyor belt -- it was a lot of produce, with a few boxed items. The guy in front of me looks at my items, and mutters: "Must be nice to be able to afford that healthy stuff. I mean, the apples alone are, what, like $4?" Then the cashier started to ring up his stuff: a pre-made pie shell, a can of spray whipped cream, a couple of family-sized frozen dinners, and a 24-pack of cheap beer. And then he asks the cashier to get him down a pack of cigarettes.

It was like the punchline to a bad joke.

[zataks]

I'm a SAHP, so an argument can be made the the grocery store is part of my workplace, right?

I was in line, putting my stuff up on the conveyor belt -- it was a lot of produce, with a few boxed items. The guy in front of me looks at my items, and mutters: "Must be nice to be able to afford that healthy stuff. I mean, the apples alone are, what, like $4?" Then the cashier started to ring up his stuff: a pre-made pie shell, a can of spray whipped cream, a couple of family-sized frozen dinners, and a 24-pack of cheap beer. And then he asks the cashier to get him down a pack of cigarettes.

It was like the punchline to a bad joke.

I have heard very similar lines from CWs about the cost of fresh produce.  I think the people that say this are just trying to justify not eating healthily.  GF and I eat very little that is packaged (frozen berries and oats come in packages but that's a grey area to me.) and while we do spend quite a bit on groceries we both feel we are eating a ton of very high quality, delicious, healthy, fresh food.  I think the health benefit easily offsets the labor cost of slicing up my veggies! =)

[lisahi]

Just the idea of getting a 5-figure bonus makes me weak in the knees. I work for the Federal government as an attorney. At year-end, we do get "bonuses" but they're in the 3-figures, which is still better than a kick in the head. My aunt found out that we got a bonus and started complaining because that was her tax dollars, so why should a Federal employee get a bonus? God forbid we actually get rewarded individually for doing good work for the American people. I wanted to slap her. As an attorney, I'm not unionized, get zero overtime for doing work beyond 40 hours per week (which always happens), and am located in a city that was supposed to get locality pay last year because we make far less than the private sector, but didn't because the Office of Personnel Management failed to do the paperwork. So I'll take my $700, thank you.

not to mention that 3-year pay freeze!

Ah, don't get me started. I don't talk about the pay freeze or salary issues much in my real life because there are a lot of people I know who think Federal employees are all overpaid. Most aren't, if you look at what they could make in the private sector, especially any employee with a professional degree. Some are (secretarial work pays much better if you work for the Federal government), but for the most part we're not overpaid. Why I stay in my job is the environment (it's good here) and certain benefits and job security. My life quality is better even if my take-home pay is a lot less.  It does get frustrating when our salary becomes a political issue and whether it's an election year determines whether we'll get a cost-of-living increase or not (usually it's the "or not").

Going back to the point of this thread, I haven't had much to offer because there's not a ton of overspending by the people I work with. Most of the cars in the parking lot are several years old. I think the biggest vice for folks in my office is fast food... and driving. I live in a small city. It's not really bike-friendly, per se, but you can work it out. I bicycle to work, which most of the folks I work with think is really awesome, but which nobody else has decided to take on.

Actually, the biggest non-mustachian offender is my sister, but I don't really want to discuss her because if I ever point her here I'm afraid of her finding my posts. lol.

[lisahi]

I'm a SAHP, so an argument can be made the the grocery store is part of my workplace, right?

I was in line, putting my stuff up on the conveyor belt -- it was a lot of produce, with a few boxed items. The guy in front of me looks at my items, and mutters: "Must be nice to be able to afford that healthy stuff. I mean, the apples alone are, what, like $4?" Then the cashier started to ring up his stuff: a pre-made pie shell, a can of spray whipped cream, a couple of family-sized frozen dinners, and a 24-pack of cheap beer. And then he asks the cashier to get him down a pack of cigarettes.

It was like the punchline to a bad joke.

I have heard very similar lines from CWs about the cost of fresh produce.  I think the people that say this are just trying to justify not eating healthily.  GF and I eat very little that is packaged (frozen berries and oats come in packages but that's a grey area to me.) and while we do spend quite a bit on groceries we both feel we are eating a ton of very high quality, delicious, healthy, fresh food.  I think the health benefit easily offsets the labor cost of slicing up my veggies! =)

Yeah, it's sad. I started to eat a lot healthier and I did notice my grocery bill go up a bit. But the issue was never produce. The idea that produce is more expensive than boxed foods is false. For me, what costs more are the "specialty items" that I buy to make delicious healthy food that I like -- spices, unsweetened nut butters, higher-quality meats, raw honey, higher-quality dairy, etc. The produce is generally the cheapest part of my grocery bill, even if I buy organic (which I only do if it's one of the "dirty dozen"). I think people have gotten out of the habit of making produce a big part of their diet, so the produce to other foods ratio is skewed towards "other foods." If folks didn't buy the "specialty items" like I do, and stick to the basics in meat, cheese, whole grains, and then fill their basket with lots of vegetables and fruits, they would likely see their grocery bill remains about the same (or even go down).

[warfreak2]

The idea that produce is more expensive than boxed foods is false.

The people manufacturing boxed foods generally pay the same wholesale price for the ingredients as the supermarket. It just doesn't make sense that you could save money by paying somebody to prepare your food and put it in a box for you.

[tmac]

The thing that really got to me about it was he wasn't even buying actual food! If it had been just the frozen dinners, I wouldn't have been so annoyed, and I can understand the argument. But to complain about price when you're mostly buying dessert, beer, and smokes! Talk about complainypants!

[zataks]

Yeah, it's sad. I started to eat a lot healthier and I did notice my grocery bill go up a bit. But the issue was never produce. The idea that produce is more expensive than boxed foods is false. For me, what costs more are the "specialty items" that I buy to make delicious healthy food that I like -- spices, unsweetened nut butters, higher-quality meats, raw honey, higher-quality dairy, etc. The produce is generally the cheapest part of my grocery bill, even if I buy organic (which I only do if it's one of the "dirty dozen"). I think people have gotten out of the habit of making produce a big part of their diet, so the produce to other foods ratio is skewed towards "other foods." If folks didn't buy the "specialty items" like I do, and stick to the basics in meat, cheese, whole grains, and then fill their basket with lots of vegetables and fruits, they would likely see their grocery bill remains about the same (or even go down).

I wasn't familiar with the "dirty dozen" but a quick googling shows that at least half of them are daily staples!  But we normally go by "buy organic if available and reasonable if the product doesn't have peel or is in contact with soils."

To bring back to topic:
I posted a while back about CW with a huge (5 figure) tax bill he complained about.  We've been working lots of OT and I came in a couple weeks ago to:
CW: So I just picked up my new gun! A 1911.
Me: Old school, right on.
CW: NEW old school!  Only $800!
Me: Wow.

I'm guessing he thought I was wowing at how cheap it was but given the complaints of costs of this and that and taxes, that seemed like a preposterous amount for, what is in his case, another toy.

[cdub]

Way to flex those mustachian muscles, cdub... I hear u about unexpected expenses. My dog who I adopted ten yrs ago when I bought this house got hit by a car in Feb. She just had surgery number two yesterday.

Are u planning to stay here when u retire? I was born and raised here and I love the city and have extended family here but I think I want to try to relocate somewhere greener, with a little more rain/weather and, hopefully, an active mustachian community. Not to mention, houses are soooooo expensive here. My job is crazy stressful and I don't know that I want to work the extra yrs it would require to pay this house off when the equity could buy what I need outright elsewhere...

I was born back east (Maryland) and lived in Boston during my teenage to young adult years. That being said... I don't know.

I'm not looking to retire anytime soon because I really enjoy my job... (it's very creative) but I do want to become financially independent as soon as possible so I can pick and choose which gigs to take and not get stressed out about money. That is my real goal.

That being said... I do love it back east and by the time I become financially independent I'll be burnt out and want to stop working anyways. :)

I do have a crazy dream of living in the country eventually and having a small sheep farm for some reason. But that's just because I'm weird. (my grandmother raised sheep and sheep dogs)

I'm not sure if that'll ever happen. Or buying property in Europe and retiring there... We can all dream right?

But first step is saving a boatload and paying off this house.

[dragoncar]

If you're bored then you're boring
The agony in the irony is killing me.

This is the age of the internet

The internet contains everything in the whole wide world ever

Im glad I struck a chord here...From reading MMM, which, I really ascribe to and enjoy, I get the impression that a lot of people here think that retirement is all Hawaiian shirts and sunny skies. Now, you guys that are aspiring to this but are not there yet, great! Just be forewarned that it is not as great as you think it is. It was at first but it wears off. You will see. Enjoy!

Surely you can find something interesting to read/learn on the cold and shitty days

Interesting perspective and thanks for the civil discourse on what is obviously the core topic of the whole community...I've seen less important topics degrade pretty quickly when opposing views come to a head.  I guess all we can say is that each of us will discover what it is like when we get there, and it is important to know that not everyday is sunshine and rainbows.

In an attempt to get back on topic, I can only add that I have very little to add...in my current workplace everyone here is pretty frugal with the office kitchen tables being crowded at lunch time most days and nary a car fancier than a Honda CRV in the parking lot.

Anyone else feel left out of this thread because they work with reasonable people?

I agree -- in fact I was entertaining the thought that viper may be a troll until this post.  I don't like to throw that term around lightly, but there was also that Dave Ramsey thread where he seemed a bit too antagonistic.  But I'm glad it's just a real difference of opinion, and hopefully we keep the discussion as rational as it's been.

And yes, I suspect most of my coworkers closet Mustachians (but of course we are in a bad situation with housing costs here in SF)

[prudence]

We had a payroll glitch here at work this week, resulting in payroll hitting peoples bank accounts one day late. We are paid biweekly. The uproar it caused was eye opening. So much bitching and moaning of not being able to pay bills etc.  The company has been offering to pay everyone's overdraft fees and late fees incurred as a result, and today they had lunch brought in for the whole company. I'm grateful for the lunch, but disturbed by how much of an issue it is for so many people if their pay arrives one day later than usual.

[warfreak2]

how much of an issue it is for so many people if their pay arrives one day later than usual.

I have a paycheck still waiting from April. (Apparently I did too much overtime and they have to amend my contract. Also, they just asked me to do more overtime.) I'll get it sooner or later, so no big deal. Also, something like 80% of the country earns more than me.

[Cheddar Stacker]

Back story:
I am with a couple Marines. The Ellen Show is on, featuring a woman that has children and needs to get food from a food bank. Ellen presents her with a $10,000 check.

Marine: "What do you want to bet that she still goes to the food bank? I want to write to Ellen and say that I'm a deployed and making less than the average American and she should give me $10,000."

Same guy, a minute later:
"Getting married for the money is stupid! I have a $41,000 car and I'm only a few thousand from paying it off."
Me: "$41,000? What kind of car is it?"
Marine: "A Dodge Challenger, it's good because it has a HEMI."

He has been in about 2 years. If the above statement is true, that means he has spent the majority of the money he has earned in the military on his car and car related costs.

Aren't you currently deployed? If so, that means he spent most of his 2 years of wages on a vehicle that is 10,000 miles away from where he is currently working. WOW.

[Frugal Father]

We had a payroll glitch here at work this week, resulting in payroll hitting peoples bank accounts one day late. We are paid biweekly. The uproar it caused was eye opening. So much bitching and moaning of not being able to pay bills etc.  The company has been offering to pay everyone's overdraft fees and late fees incurred as a result, and today they had lunch brought in for the whole company. I'm grateful for the lunch, but disturbed by how much of an issue it is for so many people if their pay arrives one day later than usual.

My wife and I are constantly dumbfounded by the number of people that live paycheck to paycheck and "NEED" to get their paycheck on time. It's just absurd. They all need good MMM punches to the face.

[dragoncar]

We had a payroll glitch here at work this week, resulting in payroll hitting peoples bank accounts one day late. We are paid biweekly. The uproar it caused was eye opening. So much bitching and moaning of not being able to pay bills etc.  The company has been offering to pay everyone's overdraft fees and late fees incurred as a result, and today they had lunch brought in for the whole company. I'm grateful for the lunch, but disturbed by how much of an issue it is for so many people if their pay arrives one day later than usual.

My wife and I are constantly dumbfounded by the number of people that live paycheck to paycheck and "NEED" to get their paycheck on time. It's just absurd. They all need good MMM punches to the face.

Eh, you might hear me complaining if my deposit came late.  I usually structure my financial life expecting those payments (reasonably, given that my employer is obligated to make those payments at that time).  Sure, I could move some stuff around to juggle a missed payment, but I might incur an overdraft fee somewhere and it's kinda a pain in the ass.  So in a sense, I NEED that payment.

[lsaurus]

I'm the new girl at work (county government, engineering department). I've gone out to lunch with my co-workers twice. I'm still getting to know my fellow engineers so I don't know all the back stories but one co-worker (CW1) tells some concerning stories about her finances. She is 50ish, single, no kids, engineering manager (she is probably making 95k plus)

First time we went out to lunch we rode in her car.  It's a new, cute, shiny, convertible VW something and she mentioned that she borrowed from her retirement accounts to pay for it.  I don't get it, she lives blocks from me and I don't even have a car, I ride my bike or take the bus.

The second time we went to lunch another co-worker (CW2) told a story about how upset her mom was that she couldn't reconcile her budget so CW2 suggested to her mom that she just add a reconcile line item, her mom was horrified at the suggestion.  I understand the feeling :), it drives me batty when my budget doesn't reconcile.  Anyway, CW1 tells us that she sat down last night to work through all her finances because she was getting sick of living paycheck to paycheck. She is an engineer, simple budget math should be well within her skill set. It's great she is looking at her finances but it has to be discouraging to have worked in engineering for 25+ years and still be living paycheck to paycheck.

[Latwell]

We had a payroll glitch here at work this week, resulting in payroll hitting peoples bank accounts one day late. We are paid biweekly. The uproar it caused was eye opening. So much bitching and moaning of not being able to pay bills etc.  The company has been offering to pay everyone's overdraft fees and late fees incurred as a result, and today they had lunch brought in for the whole company. I'm grateful for the lunch, but disturbed by how much of an issue it is for so many people if their pay arrives one day later than usual.

My wife and I are constantly dumbfounded by the number of people that live paycheck to paycheck and "NEED" to get their paycheck on time. It's just absurd. They all need good MMM punches to the face.

Eh, you might hear me complaining if my deposit came late.  I usually structure my financial life expecting those payments (reasonably, given that my employer is obligated to make those payments at that time).  Sure, I could move some stuff around to juggle a missed payment, but I might incur an overdraft fee somewhere and it's kinda a pain in the ass.  So in a sense, I NEED that payment.

My company doesn't offer direct deposit. We have two teams. Each team is at a different client each week. Because we don't have direct deposit, our paychecks are often given to us later than the day we are suppose to be paid. When I first started working for the company, I wasn't aware of this and would get really frustrated. But now I just expect it and don't rely on it. When we hire new employees, I make sure to point out to them that their paychecks will often be given to them a day or two later than the date on the check so plan accordingly.

[randymarsh]

Eh, you might hear me complaining if my deposit came late.  I usually structure my financial life expecting those payments (reasonably, given that my employer is obligated to make those payments at that time).  Sure, I could move some stuff around to juggle a missed payment, but I might incur an overdraft fee somewhere and it's kinda a pain in the ass.  So in a sense, I NEED that payment.

Wouldn't it be safer to keep a few thousand or a month or 2 worth of expenses in checking? I don't see a large benefit to keeping your finances so "tight".

[dragoncar]

Eh, you might hear me complaining if my deposit came late.  I usually structure my financial life expecting those payments (reasonably, given that my employer is obligated to make those payments at that time).  Sure, I could move some stuff around to juggle a missed payment, but I might incur an overdraft fee somewhere and it's kinda a pain in the ass.  So in a sense, I NEED that payment.

Wouldn't it be safer to keep a few thousand or a month or 2 worth of expenses in checking? I don't see a large benefit to keeping your finances so "tight".

There's also no downside... never been a problem in many years.  Even if it happened once, the $15 overdraft would be far less than the opportunity cost of a few thousand over all the years it never happened.  Of course, the timing would have to coincide perfectly... the above is not to say I keep exactly $1 in checking at all times.

[trailrated]

I have a CW that just bought a pick up. Jacked up, leather seats, big rims, new tires, tv monitors.... His payments on it are $600/month and the kicker, he got it with 100,000 miles already on it.

Boggles the mind.

[sol]

a lot of people I know who think Federal employees are all overpaid. Most aren't, if you look at what they could make in the private sector, especially any employee with a professional degree. Some are (secretarial work pays much better if you work for the Federal government)

Interesting that you bring this up.  I also work in a federal facility, and the only blinged out SUV in the parking garage belongs to one of our newly hired clerical people.  All of the old 50-something PhDs making 90k/year bike or bus to work.

[SwordGuy]

My federal parking lot is chock full of big gas-guzzling trucks.

[mm1970]

I read this entire thread. It is sad and funny at the same time. I retired 4 years ago at the age of 51. I have a sweet pension, an almost paid off house, 2 college educations paid for in cash and zero debt. I have a great wife and two awesome kids. I have news for all of you with aspirations of early retirement. It is not nearly as easy and fun as you think. When the weather is cold or rainy I am bored shitless. I know, I know..."I wont be bored, I'm different" BULLSHIT! You will be bored.
    You will not do all this budget traveling. You wont fix everything in your house. Life still gets in the way....Do yourselves a huge favor. Find work that matters and focus on that. It will be all rosy fo a while until you realize just how important work is to your well being. And guess what? The only one happy that I am home every day is my dog!
    I wish you all luck.

Ah, yes.  Everyone's retirement will be exactly like mine.  At least you're in the right forum section!

ETA -- I'm sorry you're bored, but don't project your boredom on everyone else.  What instrument(s) do you play?  What languages do you speak?  What gourmet food do you cook?  What tricks can your dog do?  Where do you volunteer?

 To answer your question...Guitar. English.Accomplished cook.My dog is old and dying.  Volunteer Fire Dept. - And I wasn't trying to project negativity. Just reality. Retirement is not all fun. It is a learned behavior. I'm well traveled, rode a bicycle from Newfoundland to Palm Beach and was an adrenaline junkie fireman in NYC for over 20 years. I kayak fish in the ocean, at night and can probably, at my middle age, still kick some ass. And I'm telling you retirement is not all its cracked up to be and people should be prepared for that.

I think this speaks more to your personality than anything.  My stepfather retired at 55.  He's 67, blissfully happy.  (At least he was until my mother died.)

Personally, I plan to work for a very long time, because I worry about boredom.  I have plenty of hobbies, etc.  But I still like to work!  Or maybe I'll retire and just be a grandma (but only if my kids don't wait as long as I do!  Will be 60 when the youngest finishes HS).

[mm1970]

About coworkers and cars...three quick scenarios;

1. Our admin assistant (makes about $60k/yr and drives a three series bmw while paying $1500/month in rent) and I were on a plane for a biz trip. The stewardess tells her to put her uber-designer bag on the floor under the seat in front of her to prepare for landing. The admin says to me, "this PURSE cost $4,000... UGH!!!!" To which without missing a beat knowing that I make several times her salary, "OMG! Your handbag is worth more than my CAR!!! (2000 avalon, 153k miles, goin strong) She was horrified at my *impoverished* vehicle and I was just laughing and laughing.

2. My junior coworker used to drive a very posh Mustang that was only a few years old but was always breaking down. She told me she bought a new car and was proud cuz she bought it used (late model VW Taureg). She said she got a great deal and I was like, cool! How much was it? Over $25K + extended warranty for $4k BECAUSE IT ALREADY BROKE DOWN FOUR TIMES in the three months she's owned it. OMG, omg, omg!! And this lovely lady who I adore owes almost $150K in student loans for 2 masters degrees... Btw, I really, respect grad school stuff for those who enjoy school (and paying for higher learning), but I get a lot of mileage (bad pun intended) in my prof with a simple bachelors degree. This is someone who is saving to buy a house in Redondo Beach, CA = OMG expensive + >40 miles from work!...

3. Another junior coworker bought a new car: five series BMW fully loaded = >$80k. OMG!!! whaaaaat?!?! And, wait for it... financed the thing!!!  She saw me blanch and reach for the wall cuz I was basically gobsmacked to which she said, "yeh, I have a really long commute so I wanted to enjoy the drive.... "

They all think I'm insane. I just don't understand what they are thinking. Granted, I'm older than all three by a few years (I'm 40) but wth, people!!!?? I live 5 miles from the office, drive a 14 yr old car that feels uber posh to me, and dress modestly meaning, I buy nice work blouses, slacks and sweaters (thank God I rarely need to wear a suit) on clearance at the local outlet then proceed to wear them out before I replace them whilst they shop their hearts out on haute couture (which, btw, I really enjoy seeing. They all look fab! But, shopping for clothes makes me shudder. I successfully avoid the activity the high, high majority of the time.  Can't even tell you the last time I walked into a mall because they fill me with dread... They are like massive 'thing' mausoleums built in such a way that it feels like you just can't get out....)

Anyway, wooohooo to freedom from pricey cars, student loans and *price couture*!!!

Ouch, this makes me cringe!  I'd say it's an "age" thing (I'm almost 44), but most of my female coworkers who are 24-26 bring their lunches, drive old cars, dress casually, and are frugal!  Ok, I am an engineer, but the receptionist isn't and she's the same way.

[randymarsh]

My federal parking lot is chock full of big gas-guzzling trucks.

A reflection of location? Trucks are probably more of a "thing" in the midwest and south.

[AlanStache]

Eh, you might hear me complaining if my deposit came late.  I usually structure my financial life expecting those payments (reasonably, given that my employer is obligated to make those payments at that time).  Sure, I could move some stuff around to juggle a missed payment, but I might incur an overdraft fee somewhere and it's kinda a pain in the ass.  So in a sense, I NEED that payment.

Wouldn't it be safer to keep a few thousand or a month or 2 worth of expenses in checking? I don't see a large benefit to keeping your finances so "tight".

Yeah, I messed up recently and over paid a cc (to have a credit), no problem as I had 'slop' in the checking till next payday.  Stuff happens, but I guess is all individual and specific to your situation; to each hi(s/r) own.  Also I sleep better knowing something is always there.

[AlanStache]

a lot of people I know who think Federal employees are all overpaid. Most aren't, if you look at what they could make in the private sector, especially any employee with a professional degree. Some are (secretarial work pays much better if you work for the Federal government)

Interesting that you bring this up.  I also work in a federal facility, and the only blinged out SUV in the parking garage belongs to one of our newly hired clerical people.  All of the old 50-something PhDs making 90k/year bike or bus to work.

At the engineering company I work for the biggest truck in the parking lot belonged to the janitor for many years.

[agent_clone]

I read this entire thread. It is sad and funny at the same time. I retired 4 years ago at the age of 51. I have a sweet pension, an almost paid off house, 2 college educations paid for in cash and zero debt. I have a great wife and two awesome kids. I have news for all of you with aspirations of early retirement. It is not nearly as easy and fun as you think. When the weather is cold or rainy I am bored shitless. I know, I know..."I wont be bored, I'm different" BULLSHIT! You will be bored.
    You will not do all this budget traveling. You wont fix everything in your house. Life still gets in the way....Do yourselves a huge favor. Find work that matters and focus on that. It will be all rosy fo a while until you realize just how important work is to your well being. And guess what? The only one happy that I am home every day is my dog!
    I wish you all luck.

Ah, yes.  Everyone's retirement will be exactly like mine.  At least you're in the right forum section!

ETA -- I'm sorry you're bored, but don't project your boredom on everyone else.  What instrument(s) do you play?  What languages do you speak?  What gourmet food do you cook?  What tricks can your dog do?  Where do you volunteer?

 To answer your question...Guitar. English.Accomplished cook.My dog is old and dying.  Volunteer Fire Dept. - And I wasn't trying to project negativity. Just reality. Retirement is not all fun. It is a learned behavior. I'm well traveled, rode a bicycle from Newfoundland to Palm Beach and was an adrenaline junkie fireman in NYC for over 20 years. I kayak fish in the ocean, at night and can probably, at my middle age, still kick some ass. And I'm telling you retirement is not all its cracked up to be and people should be prepared for that.

I think this speaks more to your personality than anything.  My stepfather retired at 55.  He's 67, blissfully happy.  (At least he was until my mother died.)

Personally, I plan to work for a very long time, because I worry about boredom.  I have plenty of hobbies, etc.  But I still like to work!  Or maybe I'll retire and just be a grandma (but only if my kids don't wait as long as I do!  Will be 60 when the youngest finishes HS).

Yeah I quite like working too.  I figure after I reach FI I'll work part time somewhere.

[viper155]

My manager and coworker #1 are trying to convince coworker #2 to buy a new car. They are basically harassing this guy to buy a new car. It's always the same stupid conversation too.

Misery loves company.

I hadn't thought of it like that, but I had a friend who constantly leased cars (since he updates every couple of years anyway *eye roll*), and tried to convince me to do the same. I remember asking him about how awesome it would be to not have a car payment. His response was so fatalistic, it freaked me out a bit:

I'm always going to have a car payment, so might as well get a new car out of it every couple of years.

Personally, I remember how it felt the first time I paid off a car I bought. Holy crap! It was like winning the lottery!! Now I know even more, so my fun little build thread gives me joy.

I read this entire thread. It is sad and funny at the same time. I retired 4 years ago at the age of 51. I have a sweet pension, an almost paid off house, 2 college educations paid for in cash and zero debt. I have a great wife and two awesome kids. I have news for all of you with aspirations of early retirement. It is not nearly as easy and fun as you think. When the weather is cold or rainy I am bored shitless. I know, I know..."I wont be bored, I'm different" BULLSHIT! You will be bored.
    You will not do all this budget traveling. You wont fix everything in your house. Life still gets in the way....Do yourselves a huge favor. Find work that matters and focus on that. It will be all rosy fo a while until you realize just how important work is to your well being. And guess what? The only one happy that I am home every day is my dog!
    I wish you all luck.

Funny that. My dad has been retired for about a decade, and he's not bored. He's busy and he's enjoying life. And since he's retired longer than you have, I could say that his experience trumps yours. Or, just, maybe, you know... acknowledge that people are different? :)

I'm going to go ahead and just assume that it was a warning based on his own experience. Viper mentioned that they weren't trying to be negative, just giving a head's up. That would be an interesting journey to follow though.

Hey Viper: What would you say to starting a thread in either the journal's section or the Ask a Mustachian section, documenting your efforts to get rid of that annoying boredom you are experiencing. I'd definitely be interested in that!!

I guess that because being retired bores me instead of doing meaningful work that I loved...well I guess I'm just a loser. To each his own...what do I know?

[Cheddar Stacker]

...Retirement is not all fun. It is a learned behavior. I'm well traveled, rode a bicycle from Newfoundland to Palm Beach and was an adrenaline junkie fireman in NYC for over 20 years. I kayak fish in the ocean, at night and can probably, at my middle age, still kick some ass. And I'm telling you retirement is not all its cracked up to be and people should be prepared for that.

Emphasis mine.

Viper, I appreciate your persepctive on this. However, I would never describe myself as an adrenaline junkie. I have also never in my life kicked some ass.

My point is you sound like a very different person than me - I might even say polar opposite. I've yearned for a nice quiet life for a long time. The closer I get to that, the more at peace I become. I'm truly happier when I'm less busy, when I have time to make a nice breakfast, mow the lawn, take a walk, sip coffee. I don't like to be rushed. Boredom can also be very blissful at times, but I know I will have plenty to keep me busy.

And by the way, boredom is the absolute best adjective to describe my job, so I don't think keeping my job could be any better than ER.

[annann]

I read this entire thread. It is sad and funny at the same time. I retired 4 years ago at the age of 51. I have a sweet pension, an almost paid off house, 2 college educations paid for in cash and zero debt. I have a great wife and two awesome kids. I have news for all of you with aspirations of early retirement. It is not nearly as easy and fun as you think. When the weather is cold or rainy I am bored shitless. I know, I know..."I wont be bored, I'm different" BULLSHIT! You will be bored.
    You will not do all this budget traveling. You wont fix everything in your house. Life still gets in the way....Do yourselves a huge favor. Find work that matters and focus on that. It will be all rosy fo a while until you realize just how important work is to your well being. And guess what? The only one happy that I am home every day is my dog!
    I wish you all luck.

I retired 19 years ago at age 48.  I am not bored and never have been.  I did a bit of consulting the first few years but stopped when the money was not worth the stress.  DH and I live in an over 55 community where we stay so busy I wonder frequently how I ever found time to work.  If you are bored and you really need to work to be happy, go and get a job.  No one is forcing you to be bored.  I will agree with you that many folks retire without a plan of how to stay active and socially engaged and they get bored and boring but it is not a given and it is fixable.

[Daisy]

I have heard very similar lines from CWs about the cost of fresh produce.  I think the people that say this are just trying to justify not eating healthily.  GF and I eat very little that is packaged (frozen berries and oats come in packages but that's a grey area to me.) and while we do spend quite a bit on groceries we both feel we are eating a ton of very high quality, delicious, healthy, fresh food.  I think the health benefit easily offsets the labor cost of slicing up my veggies! =)

I have found that many of these people are the same ones that eat out all of the time. I always counter back with "well the good produce is expensive, but it's still cheaper than eating out." They usually nod in agreement.

[horsepoor]

I've often heard "It's too expensive to buy vegetables because they just go bad and it's a waste."  Umm, yes, if you don't EAT them, which is kind of the whole point.

[warfreak2]

It's too expensive to go to the movies, because you buy a ticket and then you don't watch the movie and it was a waste.

[Hedge_87]

I have heard very similar lines from CWs about the cost of fresh produce.  I think the people that say this are just trying to justify not eating healthily.  GF and I eat very little that is packaged (frozen berries and oats come in packages but that's a grey area to me.) and while we do spend quite a bit on groceries we both feel we are eating a ton of very high quality, delicious, healthy, fresh food.  I think the health benefit easily offsets the labor cost of slicing up my veggies! =)

I have found that many of these people are the same ones that eat out all of the time. I always counter back with "well the good produce is expensive, but it's still cheaper than eating out." They usually nod in agreement.

Where I work pretty much everybody packs there lunch. Not really to save money it's just that we are mobile and you might end up in bfe around lunch time where it is not feasible to go out to eat. But anyway I pack a lot of fresh veggies and fruits with my lunch especially in the summer. I'm always getting asked "how's that rabbit food?" Or "hey where's the beef" or something similar.  I normally have some form of meat in my lunch but it's always around 5 Oz (I do blocks). They also comment on how much our grocery bill must be buying all that produce while they are Sucking down 1000's of empty calories in processed foods (I'm guessing they don't eat for ~$300 a month) I just tell them to try it for a month and see how they like it. Have yet to get any takers

[jordanread]

I'm going to go ahead and just assume that it was a warning based on his own experience. Viper mentioned that they weren't trying to be negative, just giving a head's up. That would be an interesting journey to follow though.

Hey Viper: What would you say to starting a thread in either the journal's section or the Ask a Mustachian section, documenting your efforts to get rid of that annoying boredom you are experiencing. I'd definitely be interested in that!!

I guess that because being retired bores me instead of doing meaningful work that I loved...well I guess I'm just a loser. To each his own...what do I know?

That's kind of what I was trying to figure out. I don't hear often from those who get bored in retirement. I was merely suggesting that some may find value in how you can beat those feelings, and it would be a journal thing I would read.
The caveat being that there would need to be some desire to address (or look into) the boredom instead of complaining about it and projecting your experiences onto everyone else.

Let me know if you do that though, otherwise best of luck with the rest of your retirement.

[dragoncar]

I'm going to go ahead and just assume that it was a warning based on his own experience. Viper mentioned that they weren't trying to be negative, just giving a head's up. That would be an interesting journey to follow though.

Hey Viper: What would you say to starting a thread in either the journal's section or the Ask a Mustachian section, documenting your efforts to get rid of that annoying boredom you are experiencing. I'd definitely be interested in that!!

I guess that because being retired bores me instead of doing meaningful work that I loved...well I guess I'm just a loser. To each his own...what do I know?

That's kind of what I was trying to figure out. I don't hear often from those who get bored in retirement. I was merely suggesting that some may find value in how you can beat those feelings, and it would be a journal thing I would read.
The caveat being that there would need to be some desire to address (or look into) the boredom instead of complaining about it and projecting your experiences onto everyone else.

Let me know if you do that though, otherwise best of luck with the rest of your retirement.

You don't need to "beat those feelings."  If you are bored, go back to the fulfilling work that you loved.  Or complain on the internet all day, that's what works for me.

[jordanread]

You don't need to "beat those feelings."  If you are bored, go back to the fulfilling work that you loved.  Or complain on the internet all day, that's what works for me.

Ah. I couldn't figure out how I was coming across that was causing the type of responses I was getting. I should have been more clear. By beat the feelings, I meant a way to not be bored, which sounded in this case like going back to work that he found meaningful. It would be an interesting read. Someone who caught FIRE, and decided it wasn't for them, or took another route than the usual stuff we see around these parts. I'm not affiliated with the retirement police, nor do I donate when they call. :-).
Also, it looks like I missed a page of the conversation... Still hate navigating this site on a phone. :P

I missed the post where he clarified this wasn't just complaining and being negative. Now I'd really like to see a journal or something. Sorry for addressing something that had been answered already.

[Ayanka]

Last week I was sitting with all of my tupperware like pots at the table, having the biggest lunch of the whole table. I think that day it was chopped veggies, potato salad, grapes and bread. One of my colleagues actually complimented me with having a lunch consisting from a lot of different things. Well he was right from everyone on the table I was having the healthiest lunch. The sad part is that but one, all of the other people on the table are overweight and trying to lose weight.

I have heard very similar lines from CWs about the cost of fresh produce.  I think the people that say this are just trying to justify not eating healthily.  GF and I eat very little that is packaged (frozen berries and oats come in packages but that's a grey area to me.) and while we do spend quite a bit on groceries we both feel we are eating a ton of very high quality, delicious, healthy, fresh food.  I think the health benefit easily offsets the labor cost of slicing up my veggies! =)

I have found that many of these people are the same ones that eat out all of the time. I always counter back with "well the good produce is expensive, but it's still cheaper than eating out." They usually nod in agreement.

Where I work pretty much everybody packs there lunch. Not really to save money it's just that we are mobile and you might end up in bfe around lunch time where it is not feasible to go out to eat. But anyway I pack a lot of fresh veggies and fruits with my lunch especially in the summer. I'm always getting asked "how's that rabbit food?" Or "hey where's the beef" or something similar.  I normally have some form of meat in my lunch but it's always around 5 Oz (I do blocks). They also comment on how much our grocery bill must be buying all that produce while they are Sucking down 1000's of empty calories in processed foods (I'm guessing they don't eat for ~$300 a month) I just tell them to try it for a month and see how they like it. Have yet to get any takers

[iris lily]

Anyone else feel left out of this thread because they work with reasonable people?

lol, yes, that's why I posted a positive story above, about an attempt to go thrift store shopping with a coworker for our first "non-work" activity.  Some of my coworkers are a little nutty - just learned one coworker has *three* houses (even if at least 1, maybe more are in cheap areas), and while he's in the twilight of his career, he's akin to a paralegal, working for the state, so not that rich and wealthy.  But most are reasonable, with a few more MMM than me, biking every day, bringing food every day, and thrift shopping all furniture purchases, living in smaller spaces, etc.

Several people I work with do not have cable tv. A couple are purposely unplugged at home. Cars are just cars to them.

The high rollers are many around here.

[lisahi]

My federal parking lot is chock full of big gas-guzzling trucks.

A reflection of location? Trucks are probably more of a "thing" in the midwest and south.

The parking lot at my building (federal offices) is definitely a reflection of location--Texas, specifically. Lots of trucks. It's a way of life. That said, there are folks in my particular office driving older, economy cars with no car payments. And I do get a lot of compliments for biking to work. Nobody yet has decided to do the same, but at least folks don't think it's weird.

[ketchup]

1. Our admin assistant (makes about $60k/yr and drives a three series bmw while paying $1500/month in rent) and I were on a plane for a biz trip. The stewardess tells her to put her uber-designer bag on the floor under the seat in front of her to prepare for landing. The admin says to me, "this PURSE cost $4,000... UGH!!!!" To which without missing a beat knowing that I make several times her salary, "OMG! Your handbag is worth more than my CAR!!! (2000 avalon, 153k miles, goin strong) She was horrified at my *impoverished* vehicle and I was just laughing and laughing.

This reminds me of when I talk about my (photographer) girlfriend taking my car to a photoshoot and I say "putting her camera on the passenger seat triples the value of the car".  People don't always get it right away.  My car's worth about a grand, and she's usually got about two grand in camera equipment on her.  When you're a photographer, having a fantastic camera is important.  Having fancy car is not.  People don't get that, and sometimes don't even spend where they think their priorities are.

[Hunny156]

As I was leaving work last night, I overheard this conversation.  All three are engineers, with 1-2 kids each.  Having a stay at home wife is a status symbol around here, all three follow that logic too.  This conversation was about home buying.

CW1: I really need at least a 4 BR home, plus an office.
CW 2:  Or you can get a 5 BR and convert one into an office.  then you'd have an extra closet to store stuff.
CW 3: Don't forget, you need at least one extra room to store all the kids toys!

I think I began convulsing as I walked past this conversation...

A few weeks ago, one very young and loud co-worker talking to a peer:

Young CW 1:  If you see our dept manager, please let me know, he's been avoiding me and I really need to talk to him!

CW2: Why do you think he's avoiding you?

Young CW 1: Well, I asked (another peer) to let him know I needed to talk to him.  I didn't buy a home warranty program when I bought my former rental a few months ago, b/c my friends did and they had horrible experiences with the warranty program.  My central air unit just died, and I need to finance a new one now, b/c I don't have any money, so I need to talk to our dept manager to get a raise.

Since this Young co-worker advertises everything she does very loudly, I know that she bought the house from her former landlord, it's her first purchase, and it needs work.  She thinks she got a good deal, but she didn't shop anywhere else, b/c moving is too expensive.  She figures in a few years she can sell it and move to a bigger, better house anyway.  Then she proceeded to spend $2,300 on a scratch & dent SS fridge, b/c it was one of those french door ones and the original price was $3K, so it was a good deal!  Yes, this was a financed purchase as well, barely a week after closing.  She drives a late model Honda Accord, also financed.  Her role is hourly, not salary, and the benefits package is much leaner for hourly employees.  The hourly rates are not high at all, probably $15/hr.  She leaves early on Fridays all the time.

Her peers all support her decisions, and loudly comment back on the good deals and what else she should spend money on.  Money she clearly does not have!  Wish I could have heard the conversation w/her boss about that raise.  The company is notoriously stingy on raises, and hourly employees do not qualify for the bonus plan.  Not to mention that we don't live in a world where you get a raise b/c an unplanned expense popped up!

[okashira]

As I was leaving work last night, I overheard this conversation.  All three are engineers, with 1-2 kids each.  Having a stay at home wife is a status symbol around here, all three follow that logic too.  This conversation was about home buying.

CW1: I really need at least a 4 BR home, plus an office.
CW 2:  Or you can get a 5 BR and convert one into an office.  then you'd have an extra closet to store stuff.
CW 3: Don't forget, you need at least one extra room to store all the kids toys!

I think I began convulsing as I walked past this conversation...

A few weeks ago, one very young and loud co-worker talking to a peer:

Young CW 1:  If you see our dept manager, please let me know, he's been avoiding me and I really need to talk to him!

CW2: Why do you think he's avoiding you?

Young CW 1: Well, I asked (another peer) to let him know I needed to talk to him.  I didn't buy a home warranty program when I bought my former rental a few months ago, b/c my friends did and they had horrible experiences with the warranty program.  My central air unit just died, and I need to finance a new one now, b/c I don't have any money, so I need to talk to our dept manager to get a raise.

Since this Young co-worker advertises everything she does very loudly, I know that she bought the house from her former landlord, it's her first purchase, and it needs work.  She thinks she got a good deal, but she didn't shop anywhere else, b/c moving is too expensive.  She figures in a few years she can sell it and move to a bigger, better house anyway.  Then she proceeded to spend $2,300 on a scratch & dent SS fridge, b/c it was one of those french door ones and the original price was $3K, so it was a good deal!  Yes, this was a financed purchase as well, barely a week after closing.  She drives a late model Honda Accord, also financed.  Her role is hourly, not salary, and the benefits package is much leaner for hourly employees.  The hourly rates are not high at all, probably $15/hr.  She leaves early on Fridays all the time.

Her peers all support her decisions, and loudly comment back on the good deals and what else she should spend money on.  Money she clearly does not have!  Wish I could have heard the conversation w/her boss about that raise.  The company is notoriously stingy on raises, and hourly employees do not qualify for the bonus plan.  Not to mention that we don't live in a world where you get a raise b/c an unplanned expense popped up!

LMAO. Need 911? On 2nd thought, I'll drive you to the hospital. No need to cough up $1000 for a taxi ride.

[Waternstone]

Young CW 1: Well, I asked (another peer) to let him know I needed to talk to him.  I didn't buy a home warranty program when I bought my former rental a few months ago, b/c my friends did and they had horrible experiences with the warranty program.  My central air unit just died, and I need to finance a new one now, b/c I don't have any money, so I need to talk to our dept manager to get a raise.

Since this Young co-worker advertises everything she does very loudly, I know that she bought the house from her former landlord, it's her first purchase, and it needs work.  She thinks she got a good deal, but she didn't shop anywhere else, b/c moving is too expensive.  She figures in a few years she can sell it and move to a bigger, better house anyway.  Then she proceeded to spend $2,300 on a scratch & dent SS fridge, b/c it was one of those french door ones and the original price was $3K, so it was a good deal!  Yes, this was a financed purchase as well, barely a week after closing.  She drives a late model Honda Accord, also financed.  Her role is hourly, not salary, and the benefits package is much leaner for hourly employees.  The hourly rates are not high at all, probably $15/hr.  She leaves early on Fridays all the time.

Her peers all support her decisions, and loudly comment back on the good deals and what else she should spend money on.  Money she clearly does not have!  Wish I could have heard the conversation w/her boss about that raise.  The company is notoriously stingy on raises, and hourly employees do not qualify for the bonus plan.  Not to mention that we don't live in a world where you get a raise b/c an unplanned expense popped up!

That is completely insane! I'm amazed they approved her for a mortgage and car loan based on her wages and apparent debt!!!

[KingMe]

A CW is into gold. Really into gold. All his money was put into gold and gold-related stocks. He has never been married/divorced or had kids and has worked his entire life and isn't extravagant, so he should have a gigantic stash.  BUT he borrowed money to invest more in gold-related stocks. The stocks are in the crapper, and gold prices are down, so he's working to pay off his loans.