Overheard at Work

[mm1970]

He probably got the $80 figure from my post.

There are times where a housecleaner is not a "facepunch" type of thing. Mine was one of them. I had a newborn and a two year old in cloth diapers, plus two more in nighttime diapers that sometimes leaked. I was averaging three loads of laundry a day. I also ran the dishwasher twice a day. My six and eight year old were helping a lot with dishes, laundry, and picking up clutter. I had three kids younger than school age plus was homeshooling two.

 I could go on, but I can assure you I don't need a facepunch over having someone else vacuum for me twice a month during that season of my life.

Yeah, but he was calculating it at once/month.  As someone who pays $75 every two weeks, once a month and my place would be a complete sty.

[Trirod]

I do think the cleaning service should be lost, if adhering to the guidance here: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/09/13/domestic-outsourcing-practical-or-wussypants/

MG

But I think that the difference here is that by cleaning yourself, you are not learning new skills that could possibly translate into future earned income or large future reductions in expenses.  I fix my own car (saving about $100/hour labor), do my own home maintenance and improvement (that's at least $50/hour), but I am happy to pay somebody $25/hour or so to clean because I don't enjoy cleaning and I'm not learning new skills.

[the fixer]

Another thing in the old days, there was way less junk in houses. Less toys, clothes, no DVDs, etc. Also, houses were typically smaller. Kids played outside more. So less need back then for help cleaning. I lament the amount of time I spend picking up other people's stuff in my house (which sometimes goes go "jail" in my closet.

*punch* that sounds like a personal problem, not a fault with society. What you're saying is your house is too big, you have too much stuff, and your kids need to get outside more.

I should start my own cleaning service and provide free catheters/bedpans for all you people.

And don't forget that you can't compare "hourly wage before taxes and marginal job expenses" to "hourly cost of cleaning service after taxes."

[Le0]

He probably got the $80 figure from my post.

There are times where a housecleaner is not a "facepunch" type of thing. Mine was one of them. I had a newborn and a two year old in cloth diapers, plus two more in nighttime diapers that sometimes leaked. I was averaging three loads of laundry a day. I also ran the dishwasher twice a day. My six and eight year old were helping a lot with dishes, laundry, and picking up clutter. I had three kids younger than school age plus was homeshooling two.

 I could go on, but I can assure you I don't need a facepunch over having someone else vacuum for me twice a month during that season of my life.

Good job on having an awesome family!!!! We just had our first so I don't know much about having more than one, we hope to get there. My grandmother had 11 and no cleaning service. I understand that its difficult but if we could act more like our grandparents we would be a lot more badass. I'm no shining example there are a lot of place in my life with the facepunch train comes a rolling through.

I bet your grandmother would have given her eyeteeth to be able to have a cleaning service come in now and then to catch up. Just because she did it herself (or, more likely, ran her household with the help of relatives and neighbors) does not make her a better person, nor the home she created better for her children than that of someone who used a cleaning service.

Sorry if I came off like she was better. I am completely referring to the money side of it. She simply didn't pay for that kind of stuff because they were farmers and couldn't afford. I am then suggesting that we could all do the same thing. Is this not what the forums are about?

[Insanity]

Another thing in the old days, there was way less junk in houses. Less toys, clothes, no DVDs, etc. Also, houses were typically smaller. Kids played outside more. So less need back then for help cleaning. I lament the amount of time I spend picking up other people's stuff in my house (which sometimes goes go "jail" in my closet.

*punch* that sounds like a personal problem, not a fault with society. What you're saying is your house is too big, you have too much stuff, and your kids need to get outside more.

I should start my own cleaning service and provide free catheters/bedpans for all you people.

And don't forget that you can't compare "hourly wage before taxes and marginal job expenses" to "hourly cost of cleaning service after taxes."

Just wondering -- how many kids do you have?

And that "bedpan" meme is horribly overplayed.

[grantmeaname]

Just wondering -- how many kids do you have?

What an interesting and relevant point you make.

And that "bedpan" meme is horribly overplayed.

So is the "no you don't need a new car" meme and the "you can afford to put more of your paycheck away each month to save for retirement" meme. This is a frugality site, not a don't-change-anything-and-bitch-that-life-is-really-hard site.

[Le0]

Just wondering -- how many kids do you have?

What an interesting and relevant point you make.

And that "bedpan" meme is horribly overplayed.

So is the "no you don't need a new car" meme and the "you can afford to put more of your paycheck away each month to save for retirement" meme. This is a frugality site, not a don't-change-anything-and-bitch-that-life-is-really-hard site.

Thanks

[nawhite]

Lets try to keep this thread on topic to "Things Overheard at Work".

I've added another topic to move the discussion of house cleaning. Please discuss that there. Thanks!

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/house-cleaning/

[Frugal Friar]

You guys complaining that you *need* a cleaning service do realize this is MMM, right?

I am new here, but it seems horribly against the idea of self-sufficiency and frugality to pay someone else to clean my house.  It also seems a little strange to try to justify it on a site dedicated to monetary badassity.  Just saying...

I am no where near a 50% savings rate yet, but even I don't have the luxury of being able to cut a cleaning service.  this seems like an amazing opportunity for you guys.  Cut the service, and simultaneously increase your savings and cut your expenses.  Your future, retired self will probably thank you.

[pichirino]

Did not overhear,but talked about directly and this is really a new one.
I was talking with a co-worker where the topic of me selling my car came up.
Everybody just kept asking why I do not buy a new car,I did not need to explain but to humor them
I told them I take the bus as commute and they straight out called me cheap.
I said frugal-ness leads to richness.

Another associate countered with "frugality is just the sugarcoated word for cheap"

Well not another word from my choices will be shared to them after that.

[Rural]

Another thing in the old days, there was way less junk in houses. Less toys, clothes, no DVDs, etc. Also, houses were typically smaller. Kids played outside more. So less need back then for help cleaning. I lament the amount of time I spend picking up other people's stuff in my house (which sometimes goes go "jail" in my closet.

True, but you can do laundry without hanging a big kettle on a tripod in the backyard. :-)

[dragoncar]

Not money related but still funny:

[Women talking about losing weight]
W1: I tried all the diets, no fat, no carbohydrates, none of them work for me.
W2: I got this great diet, which allows me to keep my weight for several months now.
W1: Wow, what diet is that?
W2: I just eat less. (seriously)

[MOD EDIT: Spam removed]

But where will I buy my Acai berries?  This one weird tip can help you retire early.

[Junior667]

"I'm going to get cable with Showtime, HBO and Cinemax so I can watch free movies."

[Daleth]

I am new here, but it seems horribly against the idea of self-sufficiency and frugality to pay someone else to clean my house.  It also seems a little strange to try to justify it on a site dedicated to monetary badassity.  Just saying...

I don't define frugality as "never spending money unless I absolutely have to." I define it as being efficient with money. For instance, if I spend my time doing my actual job, I earn something like $75/hour. So do you think the MMM community would advise me to spend an hour cleaning, or to hire someone to clean for $20/hour and spend that hour working at my actual job?

That equation applies to pretty much everything. If I have a project that needs to be done, and paying someone to do it would cost me less money than I would lose if I took time off my job to do it, I pay someone to do it.

[grantmeaname]

That's irrelevant unless cleaning your house requires you to take unpaid leave from work. It doesn't.

[mm1970]

Ha! I guess I don't understand the bedpan meme, and maybe I'm glad for that.

I don't know anyone who has necessarily said they "need" a cleaning service.  I don't "need" a cleaning service.  I hired one when my baby was 6 months old (or so), and it was the best thing ever.  Do I need it?  Nope.  Do I like it?  Yes.  Can I afford it?  Yes.  With a job, husband, and 2 kids - if I had extra time every day, or every week (no, I don't watch TV), I would spend it
1. sleeping (I don't get enough)
2. playing with my kids
3. exercising outdoors, because I don't get enough outdoor time or cardio, while I do get plenty of "incidental" exercise picking up toys, doing laundry and dishes and cooking, and carrying around a 22 lb toddler.

Pre-kid days, my husband and I would simply clean for 2 hours every Saturday  morning.  Toddler is at the age where he will not leave us alone for that long, so that arrangement is not possible.  So when my kids are awake, I am engaged with them.  When they are asleep, I am asleep.

This is the one glaring spot in my life that is not MMM approved. But part of MMM is figuring out what is important to you, and spending accordingly if you can afford it.

[Albert]

But part of MMM is figuring out what is important to you, and spending accordingly if you can afford it.

That's how I've always understood it.

[Jamesqf]

That equation applies to pretty much everything. If I have a project that needs to be done, and paying someone to do it would cost me less money than I would lose if I took time off my job to do it, I pay someone to do it.

I also factor in the enjoyment I get from doing it myself, and the aggravation of trying to explain what I want done to someone else.  For instance, I do lots of yard work &c myself because I enjoy doing it, even though I could use the time to do paying work.

[Daleth]

That's irrelevant unless cleaning your house requires you to take unpaid leave from work. It doesn't.

Some of us have side gigs. Some of us work partly or exclusively at home. Even for those of us who don't, we may earn more by staying at work an hour later than we would if we left on time. Point being, every hour that you spend time on X is an hour that you don't spend time on Y. If you earn more in an hour of work than you would pay someone to do an hour of cleaning, and you're not short on work (i.e. you could work instead of cleaning), it makes no financial sense to do your own cleaning.

And that's just the financial argument. There's also what some other posters have noted--the fact that they would much rather spend their non-work time doing X (quality time with family or friends, catching up on sleep, etc.) than cleaning, and for them it's a great tradeoff. This forum isn't JUST about money, after all. It's about the POINT of money, which is to be independent and able to decide how to spend your time. If you enjoy cleaning (or yard work, etc.), no one's saying it's a bad idea to do it--that's how you want to spend your time, apparently, so more power to you.

[Albert]

Actually I think the financial argument is somewhat flawed. Theoretically I make several times more than I'd have to pay someone to do the cleaning for me however I have a salaried position and I wouldn't be making any more money by staying at work few extra hours every week. I'm sure many if not most of you would be in a similar position.

I do my own cleaning because I live in a small apartment and my weekends aren't that busy anyway. 

[Richard3]

Most of the people I worked with had cleaners (even the single guys) using exactly that logic of "I make lots of money and I'd rather use my free time to do something else". Well no ****, I'd rather use my free time to bang supermodels and climb mountains but that's not really an option.

The free time you use for cleaning is not the same free time you'd be using for other things. It's the dregs of the free time, the minutes that would be used for watching cat videos on YouTube or lying on the couch staring at the ceiling.

I clean as I go (wiping / tidying up after myself - it's really not that much effort) and devote an hour at weekends to vacuuming. My house is usually close to being date-clean. Sure, I don't make the same hourly rate cleaning my house as I do working but it's much easier and more flexible than working for money and it's different from working too which is nice.

[Jamesqf]

The free time you use for cleaning is not the same free time you'd be using for other things. It's the dregs of the free time, the minutes that would be used for watching cat videos on YouTube or lying on the couch staring at the ceiling.

Yes, it is time I'd use for other things.  Though I personally don't watch cat videos (or anything else), I imagine those who do get enjoyment from doing so.  I might spend the time reading, working in the yard, playing wthh the dogs...  As for lying on the couch - or more often out under the shade trees - I've had many a productive thought that way.  Remember Newton and the apple?

[eyePod]

Did not overhear,but talked about directly and this is really a new one.
I was talking with a co-worker where the topic of me selling my car came up.
Everybody just kept asking why I do not buy a new car,I did not need to explain but to humor them
I told them I take the bus as commute and they straight out called me cheap.
I said frugal-ness leads to richness.

Another associate countered with "frugality is just the sugarcoated word for cheap"

Well not another word from my choices will be shared to them after that.

This kind of shit PISSES ME OFF.  Co-workers go out to eat off site at least 2 times per week, and go to the cafeteria every other day.  I'll bring my lunch to the caf, but I'm not going to bring it out.  And they go to shitty places like Wendy's. 

Then when we hear we're laying off over 1000 people site-wide, they're freaking out.  Still not cancelling their trip to Disney (even though they have tons of credit card debt), and I literally had to explain how a severance package works and how much he would get.  They said they don't know how they would pay the bills if they got laid off even though he'd get about a year of severance pay.

And I'm cheap because I plan how to spend my money when I receive it and don't spend it prior to that.  Asshats.

[Albert]

This kind of shit PISSES ME OFF.  Co-workers go out to eat off site at least 2 times per week, and go to the cafeteria every other day.  I'll bring my lunch to the caf, but I'm not going to bring it out.  And they go to shitty places like Wendy's. 

Seriously? You'd have to pay me extra to eat in a place like that…

Admittedly I eat in our canteen regularly, but when we go out to eat off-site we do so in a proper restaurant. If I count it correctly this year I went 7 times (including 3 on company money). One of the traditions I have instituted is to take out my lab technicians to a nice place for a lunch a week before Christmas. This year we went to an Argentine steak place. I paid 80 euros for all of us, but it's worth it to be a good boss from time to time :)

[lbdance]

Admittedly I eat in our canteen regularly, but when we go out to eat off-site we do so in a proper restaurant. If I count it correctly this year I went 7 times (including 3 on company money). One of the traditions I have instituted is to take out my lab technicians to a nice place for a lunch a week before Christmas. This year we went to an Argentine steak place. I paid 80 euros for all of us, but it's worth it to be a good boss from time to time :)

I like your mentality about being a good boss. I try to be the same. Be it occasionally buying staff a present on their anniversary with the company (one off for my right hand person at 3 years because I was about to move on and I thought she had been fantastic) or just sometimes a Christmas present again when someone has done a great job and I want to recognise it more than the company will.

[mm1970]

Actually I think the financial argument is somewhat flawed. Theoretically I make several times more than I'd have to pay someone to do the cleaning for me however I have a salaried position and I wouldn't be making any more money by staying at work few extra hours every week. I'm sure many if not most of you would be in a similar position.

I do my own cleaning because I live in a small apartment and my weekends aren't that busy anyway.

Well in that situation, of course!  I am also salaried, but I have been so busy that I have ended up taking PTO every week for the last three months because I cannot even manage to get 40 hours of work in.  My husband is one of those rare birds who is an engineer but is paid by the hour.

[Insanity]

Removed - did not see the other thread.

[ichangedmyname]

Guy at work said: I'm 28 years old, it's time I bought something.*

*talking about "buying" a $22,000 brand new car (with $200/mo payments) after I asked why not get a second-hand car since his current one just died on him.

[rufflina]

My female friend at work (age 22, graduated from college half a year ago) just ordered a brand new BMW 328i (probably ~$40K). I wondered why, and she said her mom said it was the safest car. What? Granted, we do make ~$100K a year, but she just graduated and is living in an apartment in our lovely overpriced Bay Area. She said she'll probably put $20K down and borrow $20K.

[voidmain]

My female friend at work (age 22, graduated from college half a year ago) just ordered a brand new BMW 328i (probably ~$40K). I wondered why, and she said her mom said it was the safest car. What? Granted, we do make ~$100K a year, but she just graduated and is living in an apartment in our lovely overpriced Bay Area. She said she'll probably put $20K down and borrow $20K.

Ugggh this makes so little sense on so many levels. The new 3 series are definitely very safe cars, but they only get 4/5 stars on the NHTSA frontal impact test, there are cars that get 5 stars on all of them. And I'm sure the extra power in the 328i vs the 320i makes it "safer" somehow, despite tests saying otherwise ;). As an aside, F30s are likely a maintenance disaster a few years.

[MicroRN]

On FB, but it's one of DH's coworkers...

He and his wife have matching recent model Mercedes sedans.  They have a few month old baby, and just bought him a matching Mercedes power wheels car for Christmas.  Yeah, a $350 toy car that he can't even use for a couple more years. 

[Insanity]

On FB, but it's one of DH's coworkers...

He and his wife have matching recent model Mercedes sedans.  They have a few month old baby, and just bought him a matching Mercedes power wheels car for Christmas.  Yeah, a $350 toy car that he can't even use for a couple more years.

awww.. that is soooooo cute!!!!!!!

(sorry, couldn't resist)

[JessieImproved]

On FB, but it's one of DH's coworkers...

We should probably start an "Overheard on Facebook".

[Zamboni]

^Meh, since half of the posters are on facebook while at work, it probably is sort of like overheard at work (it's just the virtual people talking . . .)

[the fixer]

Try this for a laugh: http://whitewhine.com

[Empire Business]

On FB, but it's one of DH's coworkers...

He and his wife have matching recent model Mercedes sedans.  They have a few month old baby, and just bought him a matching Mercedes power wheels car for Christmas.  Yeah, a $350 toy car that he can't even use for a couple more years.

By then, he'll need a newer car to match his parents' newer cars.

[vern]

Try this for a laugh: http://whitewhine.com

Nice!

[chicagomeg]

On FB, but it's one of DH's coworkers...

We should probably start an "Overheard on Facebook".

I did! https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-on-facebook/msg105366/#msg105366

[medinaj2160]

Sometime ago a couple of my coworkers got fired; one of the coworkers that didn't get fired said "I can't afford to loose this job." Later that day she told us that she had the PS4 and Xbox one on preorder :/. Also a few days later she was showing us pictures of her 3 cats with some chrismast outfits... :/

Another coworker was on the phone the other day. It seems that he got a call from a collection agency. He was telling them that he had no money, that he was essentially broke, that he couldn't even afford to make a 10 dollar payment. later he went out to lunch with my other coworkers :0.

WTF? What's wrong with people? These people are engineers probably making 60-80k.

[infogoon]

One of my all time favorite quotes from an old coworker arguing with his credit card company:

"You heard of robbing Peter to pay Paul? You're Peter."

[Le0]

One of my all time favorite quotes from an old coworker arguing with his credit card company:

"You heard of robbing Peter to pay Paul? You're Peter."

How is that suppose to help win the argument? And that's SOOOOOOoooooooooooooo funny.

[Zamboni]

Also a few days later she was showing us pictures of her 3 cats with some chrismast outfits... :/

I bet the cats loved that.

[Rollin]

Not overheard, but observed.  Had a co-worker's partner quit a job because they had a new baby (I applaud that - staying at home), but they now have completed a third newish car purchase/trade-in in the last year.  This one is a 2013 that was lightly used, but they still have a lot of money (I almost wrote cash :) into two late model vehicles now.  The working spouse makes about $50K.

Not overheard, but directly discussed.  Another co-worker told me the family will be out of debt in 5-years.  I hooked them up with MMM and they dug into their finances something fierce!  They are so excited to tell me what they found that was being wasted and how they killed so many bills and fees.  I see great success in their family finances over the next few years - they are in their early 30's.

[senecando]

(I almost wrote cash :)

There should be a name for the snarky smiley-faced parenthetical. It's great.

[ender]

(I almost wrote cash :)

There should be a name for the snarky smiley-faced parenthetical. It's great.

http://xkcd.com/541/

[wtjbatman]

A co-worker told me that if he was chosen for one of the random DTs we conduct at work, and it came up a presumptive positive, that he wouldn't be able to pay the $35 fee to have his sample tested in a lab. "Who has that kind of money just sitting around?"

Really? It's not like you need to have the $35 in your pocket. You just need to pay it within a couple days.

[Jamesqf]

Really? It's not like you need to have the $35 in your pocket. You just need to pay it within a couple days.

What kind of person doesn't have that much in their pocket?  If I don't, I know it's time to stop by the ATM.

[wtjbatman]

Really? It's not like you need to have the $35 in your pocket. You just need to pay it within a couple days.

What kind of person doesn't have that much in their pocket?  If I don't, I know it's time to stop by the ATM.

Honestly I can't guarantee I always have cash in my pocket, I'm pretty bad about walking around with like $10 in my wallet. But like you pointed out, it's not hard to stop by an ATM if I need cash. But the thought of not having access to even $35... yikes.

[Insanity]

Really? It's not like you need to have the $35 in your pocket. You just need to pay it within a couple days.

What kind of person doesn't have that much in their pocket?  If I don't, I know it's time to stop by the ATM.

I hardly ever have more than $20-$30 in my wallet.  I simply don't need it.  I work from home and am hardly out.  And even when I go out, I use credit cards for most expenses (for the rewards and easier tracking for the budget).

[Melody]

I would certainly assume that if my employer requests me to take a further drug test due to a false positive, I wouldn't see the bill. The drug test is solely for the employer's benefit. I've never heard of people having to pay for their own - this could be a "stingy employer - get out!" warning sign. (Similar to the employers that make you share rooms with other employees on business trips, the stingy employer that will go outside socially acceptable boundaries to save a buck is certainly not going to pay you what you are worth, as they are looking to keep every expense as low as possible.)