The Money Mustache Community
Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: fragglebock on July 13, 2014, 10:38:06 AM
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The "Overheard at Work" tread is epic! 20 months, 520k+ views and counting.
Everyone once in a while someone mentions a coworker who is not insanely spending money on stupid crap. These stories don't tickle my schadenfreude bone as much, but it's nice to hear that stupid consumerism hasn't taken over the whole population yet.
I suggest we start a thread for sharing these stories. Sort of a "Mustachianism Around the Web" topic but closer to home. Somewhere to share all those glimmers of hope. I'll start...
A young coworker who is about to finish undergrad was talking about how his car is unreliable and he's looking forward to replacing it when he gets a full-time job (accounting degree, has a couple years of grad school and well-paid internships ahead of him). Some of the things he said:
- "One of my friends bought a new BMW after he graduated last semester." [Talks about how much fun it was to do a 'country roads' drive in that car last weekend.] "I think that's insane. He's starting to regret it now"
- "My dad and grandparents think I should buy a brand new car. They say, 'You'll have it forever so why not?' But I don't know... I'll probably want a new car after a few years, so I don't think my first one should be the best one ever. I can't imagine spending 20 or 25 thousand on a car."
OK, so that second statement wasn't as brilliant. But if is "best one ever" is 25k and he doesn't see a new car as a rite of passage for your first job, at least he's looking in the right direction.
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I've got one. The other day I was checking my email and chatting with the coworker whose desk is beside mine.
Me: I got an email for my credit card company. They say I qualify for a special rate on a new card. It's the same company and the same card, why wouldn't they just give me that rate on the card I have now? Oh well, delete.
Her: That's weird, what's your rate now?
Me: I don't actually know.
Her: Me either. I just pay mine in full every month so I figure it doesn't matter.
Me: Yeah, same here.
I think we shared a secret little high five look.
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My boss brings his lunch to work every day, brags about how he makes his own cat trees out of scrap wood and carpet, and has a ratty terrycloth shirt in his regular rotation. Of course he's not so frugal with the company's money, but that's another story. :)
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I have a coworker that my employer hired right out of college. He's a bright guy, and great at what he does. He bought a couple-years-old car when he hired on, and either very recently paid it off (18 months later) or has plans to pay it off before the end of the summer.
We also have several people in the office who live close enough to bike to work, and some of them actually do!
Most people in the office bring in their own lunch, and they're almost all very healthy lunches (mine are probably some of the worst! :P). The ones who go out for lunch? Sadly, it's the college interns who are paid the lowest.
The two owners drive cars that are about 15 years old (I've got 'em beat--when I drive to work, I've got a '95 Corolla).
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In 2006 I worked for a Brigadier General (makes about $10k a month) who drove to work in a mid-late 90s Nissan. I can't remember the exact model, but it was a small car that I would have driven in high school. At a meeting he was chewing out his staff and when giving them a deadline held his arm in the air and said "according to my $25 Casio..." He was making a point about how simple it should be for people to be on time, but I was in the back of the room smirking because it was the same watch I was wearing. I don't know about him, but I'm still wearing that watch.
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Overheard my intern discussing 401K and other benefits with her boss to learn what they were. Came over later and asked her if she knew what the max was. Told her about that and using an IRA and my best piece of advice is to "max that shit out", then you can do whatever you want in life when you are FI. Sent her the link to MMM and she thinks it's a good read. YAY!
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Overheard my intern discussing 401K and other benefits with her boss to learn what they were. Came over later and asked her if she knew what the max was. Told her about that and using an IRA and my best piece of advice is to "max that shit out", then you can do whatever you want in life when you are FI. Sent her the link to MMM and she thinks it's a good read. YAY!
Good job educating others!
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At my current gig, this was perhaps a month ago.
Boss: Let's all go out to lunch today to celebrate the completion of Project X!
Coworker A: YEAH! I know just the place. Sushi.
Coworker B: Uhh... boss, you're paying, right?
Boss: Well, not exactly.
Coworker A: Aw, who cares? We get to go out and have fun!
Coworker B: Pass. Let me know if you want to actually take us out as a real reward.
So cool - I rarely hear people other than me ask the tough questions in these situations. Then the bill comes and it's too late.
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At my current gig, this was perhaps a month ago.
Boss: Let's all go out to lunch today to celebrate the completion of Project X!
Coworker A: YEAH! I know just the place. Sushi.
Coworker B: Uhh... boss, you're paying, right?
Boss: Well, not exactly.
Coworker A: Aw, who cares? We get to go out and have fun!
Coworker B: Pass. Let me know if you want to actually take us out as a real reward.
So cool - I rarely hear people other than me ask the tough questions in these situations. Then the bill comes and it's too late.
LOL, one time my boss invited me to lunch, and then immediately added "you pay for yourself" (or something to that effect... maybe a bit more tactful but still super awkward). The joys of working with lawyers.
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I wouldn't call this uber-mustachian, but my boss' boss probably makes 500k a year with stock options and drives a 10 year old Dodge Dakota to work. For comparison, some of the younger folks that make the same or less as me drive 50-70k cars (one guy I know here has a Nissan Skyline GT-R). I don't think he is purposefully making a statement but I get a kick out of it.
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Can I also use this for the Anti-AntiMustachian Edition of Overheard on Facebook?
Old highschool friend announced she is about to start saving $200 a month on utilities now that her solar panels have finished being installed.
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Long time ago now, so forget who it was, but a test pilot (Canadian I think) was being interviewed - they were going out to his 'vette. Reporter is expecting a Corvette - it was a Chevette. Test pilot said he got paid to go fast and dangerous, on his own time he was driving safely.
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I have a co-worker whose father made her husband read "The Wealthy Barber" after he proposed to her. Father wanted to make sure the future husband had some sense when it came to money. They are within a few years of retirement now...
That being said, I had some trouble coming up with a good one for this thread. I have a few good stories about anti-mustachianisms...
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Can I also use this for the Anti-AntiMustachian Edition of Overheard on Facebook?
Old highschool friend announced she is about to start saving $200 a month on utilities now that her solar panels have finished being installed.
Good for her on installing the panels, but she's going to be saving $200 per month?! Jeez, either her electric bills are really high or she installed an entire solar panel farm and is essentially off-grid. I've only been paying around $150 per month to cool a 2200+ sqft. house, and this is summertime in Houston! I even pay extra for 100% Wind Power. Is this some place with really high rates (Hawaii)?
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Talked to my coworker who started biking into work. We were talking about how much we were saving on gas and how I only fill up now to go on trips. He was happy to have not filled his car for two weeks. So proud of him.
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Can I also use this for the Anti-AntiMustachian Edition of Overheard on Facebook?
Old highschool friend announced she is about to start saving $200 a month on utilities now that her solar panels have finished being installed.
Good for her on installing the panels, but she's going to be saving $200 per month?! Jeez, either her electric bills are really high or she installed an entire solar panel farm and is essentially off-grid. I've only been paying around $150 per month to cool a 2200+ sqft. house, and this is summertime in Houston! I even pay extra for 100% Wind Power. Is this some place with really high rates (Hawaii)?
Ha ha, I thought someone might notice that. Yes, as a matter of fact, it is Hawaii.
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Can I also use this for the Anti-AntiMustachian Edition of Overheard on Facebook?
Old highschool friend announced she is about to start saving $200 a month on utilities now that her solar panels have finished being installed.
Good for her on installing the panels, but she's going to be saving $200 per month?! Jeez, either her electric bills are really high or she installed an entire solar panel farm and is essentially off-grid. I've only been paying around $150 per month to cool a 2200+ sqft. house, and this is summertime in Houston! I even pay extra for 100% Wind Power. Is this some place with really high rates (Hawaii)?
The savings from electric panels can theoretically exceed your energy spending. Typically with panels you will sell back excess energy to the system, and buy energy when you aren't getting enough (like at night). Depending on where you live, how big the panels are and where they are mounted, and your households energy usage panels could range from a minor money saver to a small source of income.
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I like this thread, but I only have one story. I gradually became very close friends with a coworker. I noticed that she was frugal, her car was really inexpensive, she sometimes invited me to eat out, but her "splurge" was usually a special deal. I knew she made much more than I do and her husband is in a fairly high paying gig. When I discovered MMM we had become closer friends and I told her about it. She smiled like a cheshire cat and swore me to secrecy. Next year she and her husband will be FI and move to the countryside. They plan to do do some part-time work, but mostly be RE. They are both 35. I was so happy for them. It really motivated me as well.
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^ Cool story!
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A couple years ago, I had an intern at my work who was a rare breed.
Whenever someone asked where she lived, she would say she lived in suchandsuch town. Immediately, the other person would point out that there's a mall there. She would point out that she lived 2 minutes from it yet had NEVER been there.
People went nuts everytime.
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I have a small team of 10 employees. Two of the team plan to retire before 40. One is very close to that age and goal. So we had a chat and she took her first step with an unpaid month off to test her plan. Yep, it went well and I'm very excited for her.
3 guys cycle to work and everyone in the building brings a packed lunch. If you want to know the bets price for a certain product in the city? We're your guys
It makes us a very mustachian workplace. I'm 99% sure I'm the only one on here.
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I have a small team of 10 employees. Two of the team plan to retire before 40. One is very close to that age and goal. So we had a chat and she took her first step with an unpaid month off to test her plan. Yep, it went well and I'm very excited for her.
3 guys cycle to work and everyone in the building brings a packed lunch. If you want to know the bets price for a certain product in the city? We're your guys
It makes us a very mustachian workplace. I'm 99% sure I'm the only one on here.
What type of work are you doing? How did that mustachian team started beeing mustachian?
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I, too, never have any cool over-heards for the other thread, because my office overall is very frugal. Most people bring their lunch to work or eat the complimentary food out of the kitchen (including the two owners). Most of the parking lot is filled with older model cars (although sadly I'm the only one who bikes into the office, and as far as I know not a single person buses in).
In fact, a few months ago, the owner was telling me about how he and his wife were downsizing, and that they were selling their (small very modest) house and buying a small condo.
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Two stories from work telling how I'm way out-frugaled. Two of the security guards here bicycle to work. I compliment them on the baddassity (use other words). One I find out uses a combo of busses and light rail as well as ridding. I mention that I keep thinking when it cools down I have no reason not to get out and ride the canals which go everywhere here in Phoenix. He gets a funny look on his face as I mention the ones that would bring me to within less than a mile of work. He said it sounded like a great idea. A few days later I asked if he had checked out the canals, and he said he is now using them to bike to work. Sigh. I obviously have no excuse not to start this myself.
A few weeks ago one of the new security guys who is young was in the kitchen when I was. In making conversation he asked my opinion about new cars as he thought with his next paycheck he could afford to buy one. I was pleased to be asked, but I haven't bought a car in 6 years. As I was trying to think of what new models would be easy to get into with a low paying job, he mentioned he was looking at Craigs List and told me about a couple he had in mind. Obvously cheap enough to pay cash. I was humbled by how he obviously at 20 something was ahead of me in money management.
Then there is the co-worker who mentioned he and wife paid $1500/ticket to go to a fight in Vegas. But that is the other thread.
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I have a small team of 10 employees. Two of the team plan to retire before 40. One is very close to that age and goal. So we had a chat and she took her first step with an unpaid month off to test her plan. Yep, it went well and I'm very excited for her.
3 guys cycle to work and everyone in the building brings a packed lunch. If you want to know the bets price for a certain product in the city? We're your guys
It makes us a very mustachian workplace. I'm 99% sure I'm the only one on here.
What type of work are you doing? How did that mustachian team started beeing mustachian?
We're a small business. Not the most mustachian of industries. But we are (most of us)
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This guy at work retired at age 50 something - not young by MMM standards, but more people were shocked that he retired at his age: Here is his goodbye email - with company name removed.
As my last day at -------- is drawing to a close, I wanted thank all of you who have sought me out with kind words. As most of you have experienced my gruff nature and am a bit surprised at how that guy is being blessed with such kindness. --------- has been way more than a job for me. I have always cared deeply about what we do and how we do it, and I am proud of what has been accomplished from where we began to today. To the print and production folks, I will miss you all the most. It has been a pleasure working alongside such hard working, dedicated, yet quirky folks. Thanks for allowing me to know about your lives and sharing your humor with me. I wish ------- and all of you here great success as your futures unfold. Remember you need each other, be passionate, save your money and retire young.
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We share an office with a small software company. We share a kitchen area, but each company has its own stuff (coffee maker, microwave, etc.). Sounded like they had a new hire that was getting a tour of the office:
"...we have our own fridge in here and microwave, so if you want to bring food and store it, because, you know, eating out gets expensive..."
I only wish I wasn't so busy this morning so I could share with you guys a more precise recollection of the event. Either way, made me happy for the day
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Fortunately my co workers are either reasonably prudent or prudently quiet about their finances so I've no recent stories. However, here's one from years ago I posted in another part of the forum.
SPC R was a 20 something company clerk in my first officer assignment and a pretty smart guy. In conversation he broadly hinted he had tens of thousands invested in various stocks and diverted large chunks of his pay to buy them. One day at work I found him practically doing somersaults with joy. Some company had gone public and he was diverting a large chunk of his assets to buy into it. I was in no position to invest and thought he was a bit crazy. I told him as much since the company's business model was so unconventional. But SPC R assured me this "Google" company would do very well.
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This guy at work retired at age 50 something - not young by MMM standards, but more people were shocked that he retired at his age: Here is his goodbye email - with company name removed.
As my last day at -------- is drawing to a close, I wanted thank all of you who have sought me out with kind words. As most of you have experienced my gruff nature and am a bit surprised at how that guy is being blessed with such kindness. --------- has been way more than a job for me. I have always cared deeply about what we do and how we do it, and I am proud of what has been accomplished from where we began to today. To the print and production folks, I will miss you all the most. It has been a pleasure working alongside such hard working, dedicated, yet quirky folks. Thanks for allowing me to know about your lives and sharing your humor with me. I wish ------- and all of you here great success as your futures unfold. Remember you need each other, be passionate, save your money and retire young.
That's awesome!
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I think pretty much all of our C Suite Executives walk, bus, or bike to work. My favorite is the guy who runs ~4 miles to work. Due to back problems he doesn't wear a backpack. His workaround - a jogging stroller! His youngest is in middle school so I'm not sure if it was his from years ago or if he bought a cheap used one. Either way creative solution!
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I think pretty much all of our C Suite Executives walk, bus, or bike to work. My favorite is the guy who runs ~4 miles to work. Due to back problems he doesn't wear a backpack. His workaround - a jogging stroller! His youngest is in middle school so I'm not sure if it was his from years ago or if he bought a cheap used one. Either way creative solution!
Heh, I love that!
One company I used to work at in downtown Seattle, my boss, I forget his exact title now -maybe controller? anyway, he would run to work in downtown Seattle... from the Issaquah Highlands!
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There are several people that are pretty close to mustachianism where I work, but I know of three who could probably pull the plug any day now and are just building up their stache to be a bit bigger.
One couple works two part time jobs here so they can alternate and only have a small amount of childcare in the middle of the day, and they live off half of one of the two salaries (75% Savings Rate). Another person here was always a big saver, but only started planing his FIRE goals about 3 years ago. His numbers look good, but He's waiting out at least a year to build up his investments. All of them are less then 35.
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People at work were talking about how vanguard is the cheapest and best place for simple investments. Same conversation: "I had to call to confirm something about my new credit card and they gave me a 20k limit. I don't care about the limit, I just want the rewards points."
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This guy at work retired at age 50 something - not young by MMM standards, but more people were shocked that he retired at his age: Here is his goodbye email - with company name removed.
As my last day at -------- is drawing to a close, I wanted thank all of you who have sought me out with kind words. As most of you have experienced my gruff nature and am a bit surprised at how that guy is being blessed with such kindness. --------- has been way more than a job for me. I have always cared deeply about what we do and how we do it, and I am proud of what has been accomplished from where we began to today. To the print and production folks, I will miss you all the most. It has been a pleasure working alongside such hard working, dedicated, yet quirky folks. Thanks for allowing me to know about your lives and sharing your humor with me. I wish ------- and all of you here great success as your futures unfold. Remember you need each other, be passionate, save your money and retire young.
That's awesome!
Agreed.
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Sad that the other edition has 78 pages and this not even 78 posts... I guess that points to the state of most households...
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Also the other thread was started way before this one. The first line in the first post of this thread:
The "Overheard at Work" tread is epic! 20 months, 520k+ views and counting.
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Spent a four day trip flying with a hardcore Christian who believed in numerology and conspiracies like the New World Order and Illuminati and all that crap. I didn't think I could find anything in common to talk about until somehow the subject changed to finances and investing. When he said "I've never had a car loan, I've always paid cash" I knew the trip was going to get better.
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Also the other thread was started way before this one. The first line in the first post of this thread:
The "Overheard at Work" tread is epic! 20 months, 520k+ views and counting.
Also the other thread can go off topic for, like, 3 pages at a time.
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Yesterday at lunch, the guys from the small software company that we share an office with brought a chess board with them to play over their lunch break. I found myself watching because, hey, who doesn't love some chess? One of the lab techs joined me when he showed up with his lunch. We got to talking with the guys playing and before you know it, "I play winner" turned into full league planning. Day 1, and we already have aspirations of an inter-company chess league complete with seasons and playoffs.
I love this place
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I prefer Go. Easier rules, but more (different) work for the brain.
hm... Picard in the Quotes? Then I will addd one:
"If there is intelligent life somewhere in the universe, then they probably know chess, but definitely Go." - Emanuel Lasker, Chess World Champion
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When I started my first government job, the building custodian stopped by, introduced himself and asked if I'd started my TSP yet. I wasn't eligible initially (I've forgotten the rules, but there was some initial waiting period. The custodian asked me what date the waiting period ended, and he was back at my desk on that day, reminding me to get at least the match, and to increase every time I got a raise.
He used to buy beat-up crap at garage sales, clean it up and resell it for nice profits. He once turned a $75 wood stove into a $250 sale with some steel wool and some kind of polish. He used to come in and talk about stocks with my office mate, and one day my office mate said "he is one of the smartest and probably the wealthiest guy in the building.
Why was he a custodian? Poor education, and the government just can't see street smarts for what it is. But he walked out the door when he chose to retire as a wealthy man. I am still grateful to him for getting me on the right track.
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When I started my first government job, the building custodian stopped by, introduced himself and asked if I'd started my TSP yet. I wasn't eligible initially (I've forgotten the rules, but there was some initial waiting period. The custodian asked me what date the waiting period ended, and he was back at my desk on that day, reminding me to get at least the match, and to increase every time I got a raise.
He used to buy beat-up crap at garage sales, clean it up and resell it for nice profits. He once turned a $75 wood stove into a $250 sale with some steel wool and some kind of polish. He used to come in and talk about stocks with my office mate, and one day my office mate said "he is one of the smartest and probably the wealthiest guy in the building.
Why was he a custodian? Poor education, and the government just can't see street smarts for what it is. But he walked out the door when he chose to retire as a wealthy man. I am still grateful to him for getting me on the right track.
What a great story! Glad he kept up with you.
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One more for the anti-anti's.
Our office has a table in the lunchroom where anyone can put anything, up for grabs by anyone else. Usually it's produce from people's gardens, or thumbed-through magazines, but sometimes it's lotions or books or stuffed animals-- you get the drift. The items are usually gone within an hour of deposit.
This morning there was a bunch of expired goods on the table-- anything from canned masala sauce to a package of gluten-free ice cream cones (who even thinks this stuff up?) Everything was out of date-- up to 4 years past.
By noon, everything was gone except the ice cream cones. I admit I ate one-- it tasted like a stale gluten-free ginger snap. Not good, but it was free!
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I have a pretty big commute to work, so I consider this an overheard at work item.
As I was leaving my neighborhood, I got behind an old Toyota Sienna with a bright red bumper sticker:
"Debt is normal. Be weird."
I was pretty shocked to see it in my area, but it made me really happy. :)
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Surprised to find I'm enjoying this thread even more than the other one!
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At work, the senior people and partners at my small consulting firm are pretty frugal from what I can tell. In discussions, I know many of them bike to the train (5 miles) and all of that kind of stuff. One of the programmers is Indian, and I am pretty sure he has FU money and maybe even FI at this point. He wants to work though. It's the younger folks (and the more American culturally) that are super bad with money (buying breakfast and lunch at work every day kinda stuff).
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My boss and I were interviewing a candidate and asked where he saw his career going. His answer concluded with "and around age 55 I would like to move into more of a technical team management type of roll".
As soon as he left the interview we both looked at each other and started to laugh. Both of us are at least financially aware and planning to be retired pre-50. It was the first time I admitted to having some intent to RE at work too.
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Kinda sad, but we have several divorced people in the office. The ones that make good money are undoubtely paying alimony and saw their balance sheets get hacked in half. Understandibly, they are trying to cut costs...
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OP: Lots of things in the works. 2 certifications, finishing my degree, and someones gotta pay for it all. Given that fact, would my friends think it was just to weird if the walked into say . . . CHIPOTLE and saw making the salsa, or even rolling your burrito?
Person 1: Nope. Gotta do what you gotta do. Plus I know my burrito would then be made with more than just their ingredients...it would be made with love too.
Person 2: Absolutely not! Go out there and make your dreams happen!!!
Person 1: Yeah don't feel bad at all. I spent the weekend collecting horse urine for some extra cash. No shame my friend.
When I was standing midwatches or weekend/holiday duty, we always used to joke that the alternative was working shifts at McDonald's.
But nobody ever proposed molesting horses for their bladder contents!
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I just got back from a lunchtime financial workshop hosted by my company's retirement company. The workshop was designed specifically for young women, and was mostly too basic to be of any use. My table mates were awesome, though, and our conversations lead me to suspect there are a few closet mustachians here.
The first comment one woman made right after sitting down was that the best financial advice she could offer (to the two youngest ladies at our table) was to max out your pre-tax contributions. From their reactions, I suspect the ladies in question already DO max out their accounts, but didn't want to admit it to a table full of strangers.
One of our activities was to create a budget with 7ish assigned categories. One category was debt (and not mortgage or car debt; those were included elsewhere). No one at the table (including the recent graduates) thought debt was a reasonable budget line item and wondered why it was included. Their first guess at how much was reasonable to save was 25-30%. I'm guessing this also included a "I don't want to shock the other folks at the table, so I'll round down" factor.
The speaker had lots of "It's so hard to balance a budget these days" comments included to make it palatable to a mainstream audience, but my coworkers were having none of it: "If you can't afford the house, buy a smaller one!" "Why would you have credit card debt? Just live within your means!" "Don't eat out; cook in bulk and freeze meals for when you're feeling lazy!"
The best was an example of putting a $2,500 couch on a credit card and showing how much the couch costs after paying it off using the minimum. Everyone in the audience was dead set against buying it. ("Don't by the new couch, buy used!" "Buy with cash and get a discount" "Save up for it BEFORE you purchase it") The instructor kept having to repeat, "but let's pretend you NEED that new couch" to make her next point about paying it off quickly instead. I don't think the folks in the room would have bought the couch. :-)
Nice job, ladies!
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But nobody ever proposed molesting horses for their bladder contents!
And i've just been doing it for fun.
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"but let's pretend you NEED that new couch"
In this pretend world where I NEED that new couch, has my butt grown so large that it takes up the entire couch? Sounds like I actually need two (one for home, one for work) and some pretty large vehicle now.
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My last 1/1 conversation resulted in me sending my boss multiple MMM articles.
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"but let's pretend you NEED that new couch"
In this pretend world where I NEED that new couch, has my butt grown so large that it takes up the entire couch? Sounds like I actually need two (one for home, one for work) and some pretty large vehicle now.
I love you guys. :D
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But nobody ever proposed molesting horses for their bladder contents!
And i've just been doing it for fun.
I just spat water all over my keyboard, thanks, Nacho.
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Had a conversation with my coworker where he mentioned that his family bought a townhouse close to work. He was saying he'd rather have time with his family and live in less space than to spend 2 hours a day commuting to and from a big house in the suburbs.
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A coworker of mine is leaving soon for another job. His new commute involves a 5-minute walk from home to the train station and another 8-10 minutes at the other end. So he's selling his car.
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CW (age 50-ish): "I was talking to my friend and he's taking a loan from his 401(k). Guess how much he has? Only 7,000. What an idiot."
Me (~1 year out of college): "Holy shit, *I* have more than that."
CW: "Yeah, I think my cat has more than that."
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Told a colleague about Navy Federal's 5% CD, and he's setting off to open a Navy Federal account (doesn't have one, but he's a Navy vet from Vietnam, so should have no difficulties).
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A co worker doesn't have a car. She is a mother of two living in an exo burb so this is quite a feat! they walk and take public transport. This may come more from necessity than badassity (doesn't get child support from her ex and owns a home on a salary lower than mine) but she resisted the temptation to take a loan so it's still pretty good!
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Told a colleague about Navy Federal's 5% CD, and he's setting off to open a Navy Federal account (doesn't have one, but he's a Navy vet from Vietnam, so should have no difficulties).
CW of mine has a Navy Fed account, and found out about the 5% CD promotion. One day he asks me, hey should I do a 5% CD? Navy Fed has a promotion. I asked him the term, he said 1 year. And I was like hell yes!
I think I've convinced him to open a Roth IRA this year too. He hasn't done it yet but he says he'll do it. We'll see!
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My last 1/1 conversation resulted in me sending my boss multiple MMM articles.
would be cool if you elaborated a little more on this. I'm just curious how that went down.
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"but let's pretend you NEED that new couch"
WHY did the speaker not use a refrigerator as the example? Since, you know, you might actually NEED a new one at short notice.
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I have one! I even posted on the other thread about a coworker whose car was totaled in an accident, and an expensive car at that.
He said he's got $12k from insurance and will be buying a car for about $6k. Currently borrowing a friend's car until the right deal comes along.
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I have some more.
We had layoffs in April. One of my old bosses got laid off. He doesn't have a job yet, and neither does his wife. He has a ranch, and a local house, and had a far-away house and bought another house. So, they sold the far-away house and he's busy fixing up the new house. And just looking around here and there.
But he could really retire completely. They've been frugal, he always packed his lunch. They are in their mid-50s and their kids are grown, but all 3 of their houses/ ranches are in Southern California, and that's no small feat.
Another coworker worked as a tech, went to school at night, got her engineering degree. She got promoted to engineer and also works nights teaching at the tech school she graduated from. Good thing she's still in her 20's, pretty sure I wouldn't have the energy for that.
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Love this thread!
I don't have much mustachianism from my work (the days I wasn't the only person packing a lunch I would always from the other random guy how they were on a diet and couldn't eat out that week)... except for the single IT guy who also happened to collect rainwater, ride the train, bike to the train, own a Honda Fit, eat little to no meat, buy things used... I guess he might have accepted the meal ticket at work out of habit, but he was badass on other stuff.
My SO currently work on public service in the transportation dept. Most people there are the opposite of frugal, but they do tend to bike more to work than the average workplace if anything out of a feeling of responsibility or nagging from the dept director (she bikes).
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Convinced MMM reading co-worker to invest instead of losing money in the bank. Talked her through the IRAs and the rest of that. Very frugal, but was afraid of investing until I showed her my investing Google spreadsheet. She'll be just fine!
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Mentioned that I walked to work and found out that my boss's boss also walks to work. He and his wife downsized significantly but like the change so far.
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One of the surgeons I work with sold his 15 year old Lexus and started driving his daughter's car after she moved to NYC and doesn't need a car anymore. He plans on keeping the car until he can't drive anymore. Another one bikes to work 10 miles each way (on clinic days).
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My husband has been minding a friend's garden. He brought home five GIANT zucchinis, and was going to throw them in our compost pile because he knew we would not get around to cooking them. "Wait!" Said I. "I will take them to the special table in our break room where people leave things they don't want!"
They were gone in an hour.
Every large office needs such a special table in the break room.
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During this deployment to the Middle East I have to do occasional travel in civilian clothes on commercial flights and I can't carry military-looking luggage. So far I've been borrowing another officer's oversized backpack and I mentioned to another that I do this travel so infrequently I couldn't justify buying more luggage. Yesterday he dropped a beat up large shoulder bag on my desk. He said he recently acquired some new luggage and bought the previous bag for $4 at a thrift store before we deployed.
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One of my coworkers who is in his early 20's has slowly been turning mustachian. He has starting bringing a lunch most days and is enthusiastically paying down his student loan debt so that he can move on to maxing out his 401k and Roth IRA. I'd like to think I've been a good influence.
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Well, the friend I mentioned upthread who installed solar and was saving a ton of money from it is now going to lose the panels due to living in the path of the coming lava flow...
A young guy at work who is a really hard worker got a great opportunity with a full-time position here. And then bought a big truck. I'm worried because the friend who got him the job is really spendy. So it was nice to see him coming in this morning carrying grocery bags because there's a small kitchen in his work area and apparently he eats two meals a day there :)
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I have a close friend that works at a certain high end electric car company... after hounding him non stop since he started he just told me he is putting 10% into his 401k (trying to get him to boost that still) and 15% into the stock purchase plan that is also discounted 15%.
Now if only I could get him to pay off all his debts... Either way it's an improvement!
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Well, the friend I mentioned upthread who installed solar and was saving a ton of money from it is now going to lose the panels due to living in the path of the coming lava flow...
WOW!! pics or it didn't happen :)
Anti-anti-mustacian example: Most of the group in my office have moved to high-deductible HSA plans, maxed out 401k's and living below their means. Common topics are declutter, tax shelters, and early-retirement plans. The group is not 100% there (hell I'm not 100% there) and I can't take all the credit, but it's pretty good!!
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Well, the friend I mentioned upthread who installed solar and was saving a ton of money from it is now going to lose the panels due to living in the path of the coming lava flow...
A young guy at work who is a really hard worker got a great opportunity with a full-time position here. And then bought a big truck. I'm worried because the friend who got him the job is really spendy. So it was nice to see him coming in this morning carrying grocery bags because there's a small kitchen in his work area and apparently he eats two meals a day there :)
Lose meaning sell for a small loss?
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Well, the friend I mentioned upthread who installed solar and was saving a ton of money from it is now going to lose the panels due to living in the path of the coming lava flow...
WOW!! pics or it didn't happen :)
Ha, well she hasn't lost the house yet, it just seems like a certainty given the predictions.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/26579803/puna-lava-flow-exits-forest-reserve-slows-as-it-heads-toward-open-land
http://hilo.hawaii.edu/news/stories/2014/09/22/puna-lava-flow-in-graphics-maps/
Lose meaning sell for a small loss?
I haven't gotten a clear answer and I don't know her well enough IRL to press, but it sounds like there's no plan to save them. Possibly they don't have the know-how or the money. Or maybe they rent and it's just a dispute with the landlord over who owns them.
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When I heard lava flow i thought of HI instantly.
When we were on the Big Island a few years ago we spent some time on the Hilo side, including Puna. For those who haven't been, it is about as far away from most people's idea of a resort vacation as possible (except maybe Molokai). People are not only living in the path of possible lava flow, but actually living ON TOP of a few year old flows trying to reclaim it.
Having stayed with some people via homeaway, HI definitely has a big community of mustachians living right. If you're creative and willing to adjust away some "convenience", there are plenty of reasonably priced places to retire on HI.
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I am in academics, and I always try and convince young people starting out to get in the habit of saving money. With compounding interest if someone put only $50 every month into an IRA at 8% interest it would compound to over $200,000 if they worked until 65. They would be better off than the majority of Americans, and if they started the habit early then they would be more likely to increase the amount they save through the years. Well, I had convinced this one young guy to open an IRA and direct deposit $50 every month. Recently the market has been up and down and I exchanged a few texts with him saying that I was about to push more money into my investments while the market is dipping. Following is the exchange verbatim:
Me: Going all in today or tomorrow
Him: Lol I should just cash out and go on vacation
Me: No way man!! You only lose money when you sell at a loss
Him: Lol I'll just write it off as a bad year I guess
Me: Just leave it in. When you transfer new money, put it into ITOT, until u build up a few hundred, then re-alocate
Me: Also u need to read mrmoneymustach.com
No doubt he went out to some fancy restaurant and bought some new sneakers and has $0 left over.
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I've spent the last 18 months mentoring new bloggers online, and a couple weeks ago most of us met up at FinCon. This included a blogger camp before the main conference as well as a dedicated mentoring session during the conference.
I met hundreds of frugal people (I mean, people in addition to Mr. & Mrs. MMM) who are going to reach financial independence in their 30s... or feel bad about not making it until their 40s. Most of them networked on projects or agreed to gigs that will easily produce 4-5 figures during the next year. Some of them even scored a sponsor's free pass to the conference, flew on airline miles, took the $2 bus from the airport instead of the $33 cab, shared rooms with other FinCon attendees (through the FinCon-sponsored Google Doc), and then scored freelancing posts or affiliate income deals. Not that any of us are competitive about that sort of thing.
The entrepreneurial spirit in the hallways & lounges was thick enough to cut with a chainsaw.
I think the next generation is going to turn out just fine.
My spouse and I were about as un-frugal as we could be during this trip, but even I was offered a freelancing deal that paid for my conference ticket. If this keeps up then I'm going to be simultaneously donating the income to military charities and maxing out my Roth IRA contributions...
Told a colleague about Navy Federal's 5% CD, and he's setting off to open a Navy Federal account (doesn't have one, but he's a Navy vet from Vietnam, so should have no difficulties).
My spouse and I both signed up for that deal, and then I signed up my Dad for it, and then our daughter signed herself up too...
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Not my workplace, but ... I just took a couple pairs of shoes in to our town's only remaining shoe repair place for new heels and soles. I wound my way into the little strip mall with lots of tiny shops, found it, took my shoes in, where I engaged in a mostly sign-language conversation with a nice gentleman whose English was much better than my ability to speak his language, which is to say neither of us had much common language to work with.
Through signing and smiling, we agreed on the need for new heels. I showed him the soles and asked if he could replace them too, and he studied each pair of shoes, felt them carefully, and said "Not yet. They have more miles."
He has a new customer for life.
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Coworker 1: "Hey Coworker 2, you're into investing and stuff, right? Do you have any advice on offsetting short-term capital gains?"
Coworker 2: "Nah, I just put everything in index funds."
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Coworker saw my library book sitting on my desk. "Oooh! There's a public library near here?!? Where? Free books are always better."
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Coworker saw my library book sitting on my desk. "Oooh! There's a public library near here?!? Where? Free books are always better."
2 websites for the bibliophile:
http://bookshelfporn.com/
http://littlemissdorkette.tumblr.com/post/3118512524/date-a-girl-who-reads-by-rosemarie-urquico
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Aren't there public libraries everywhere, though? I've never lived anywhere that didn't have one.
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I have a close friend that works at a certain high end electric car company... after hounding him non stop since he started he just told me he is putting 10% into his 401k (trying to get him to boost that still) and 15% into the stock purchase plan that is also discounted 15%.
To be honest, that is putting over 50% of his retirement PLUS his current paycheck all in 1 boat (his current job). I would diversify more, and put no more than 1/3 or 1/4 of savings into stock purchase.
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To be honest, that is putting over 50% of his retirement PLUS his current paycheck all in 1 boat (his current job). I would diversify more, and put no more than 1/3 or 1/4 of savings into stock purchase.
But if you quickly turn around and sell the stock that you bought at a discount, isn't that nearly free money?
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Yes. I max out my ESPP too, because it's free money.
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My boss bought a 2014 Prius a week and a half ago. His old 2000-ish Accord is on its way out, so he and his wife saved up for a while and paid cash.
That Prius is worth more than their other 3 cars (Accord, 2000 Odyssey, 2002 Ford E350 12-passenger van--they have 7, soon to be 8 kids) put together.
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Aren't there public libraries everywhere, though? I've never lived anywhere that didn't have one.
He didn't realize there was one so close.
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Yay! I have one! The exterminator at my work just came in and he is a nice guy to chat with. He said he bought a new house. Is keeping the old one to rent out, adding to his rental properties (he's 32). After more conversation, he said he doesn't understand how a lot of his friends have no money and work jobs that pay well. He makes $30-35k/yr and has 75k banked :) Plus rental properties! Next time he comes in I am going to write down MMM's web address for him :) Love this guy! He's not mustachian, but he is certainly pointed in the right direction!
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My parents have done the Dave Ramsey cash envelopes thing for years. Then my wife's grandparents gifted me his book and borrowed the dvds. But the thing that pushed me over the edge was a coworker.
He's a young guy (early-mid 30s). Despite the 3 kids he's apparently on pace to pay off his house and likely retire much earlier than traditional age. I won't go into his financial shenanigans but it's quite impressive for a low-medium pay guy whose wife is SAHM. I was pretty incredulous - you can actually do that??? Turns out he's a MMM reader. Between that and the wife's grandparents who had FIRE'd in their 50s years ago investing in rental property, I was on board.
The whole office isn't too bad about this stuff - unless somebody's wife shows up about half the parking lot looks like it came out of a salvage yard. There was the coworker who bought a brand new car because the battery went out (it'll only have more problems, it's all downhill from here!) but really not bad for a bunch of engineers/techs.
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I'm in an area where frugality is looked on favorably. In fact I have always gotten impressed looks when I tell people that the sweater they complimented was found at a thrift store!
I was turned onto debt free living by a coworker in fact, which is really cool. Another coworker sort of berated me for putting so little in my 401-K (At the time I was maxing out 2 Roth's as well). I have passed on lots of ideas to another coworker and she is well on her way, in fact I think she'll beat me to FI!
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This was on FB but it's Anti-Antimustacian so I'm putting it here:
Friend: Ladies, How much do you typically spend on a haircut?
Commenter1: Twelve (16 tops with tip) dollars once to twice a year. Though DH cuts my hair sometimes. Free!! But I don't think I'm typical in this regard...
Commenter2: Usually the lady that does my hair at the salon in nearby town charges 10 and give her a 5 tip
Commenter3: $15 to a little old Asian lady in her garage
Commenter4 (me): $20 after tip. Once a year at best
Commenter5: $34. I get a trim every 8 weeks or so. When I had super short hair it was every three weeks. Don't ask me how much I spend on color to hide the grey.
Commenter6: Around $20 but I only get my hair cut once a year. Lol. DH gets his hair cut every 2 weeks.
Out of 6 replies only one of them was the "normal" response I expected. I thought I'd be the cheap one
Had a similar conversation with DW a couple days ago. Since I track every penny we spend I'm surprised that I never noticed this, but my wife doesn't pay for haircuts. She gets a cut once a year and if she donates the hair it's free. I cut my own.
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Colleague's status on facebook:
Our society is so obsessed with STUFF that there is an entire store built around only selling containers to put all of our STUFF in, and it makes enough money to survive in Manhattan.
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Conversation over lunch in the work kitchen.
CW1: It's really hard to save money unless you earn a heap.
CW2: Really? I haven't found that to be true. I saved a 20% house deposit earning less than you do!
:D
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This comment brought me out of lurker status.
Some context, I have had a few conversations about MMM with this particular CW, and they were very interested and have started to read the blog. This particular coworker happens to drive to work every day.
CW: I just cancelled my parking subscription
Me: How come?
CW: I'm going to take the train to work. I'm done with paying $200 a month for parking!
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Colleague's status on facebook:
Our society is so obsessed with STUFF that there is an entire store built around only selling containers to put all of our STUFF in, and it makes enough money to survive in Manhattan.
I felt that way when I used to watch Storage Wars. People paid $30-$50 a month to hang on to that?! Quite often the locker wasn't anywhere close to full.
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Colleague's status on facebook:
Our society is so obsessed with STUFF that there is an entire store built around only selling containers to put all of our STUFF in, and it makes enough money to survive in Manhattan.
I felt that way when I used to watch Storage Wars. People paid $30-$50 a month to hang on to that?! Quite often the locker wasn't anywhere close to full.
And that's with the producers "seeding" interesting items in some lockers to make the show more fun to watch!
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Colleague's status on facebook:
Our society is so obsessed with STUFF that there is an entire store built around only selling containers to put all of our STUFF in, and it makes enough money to survive in Manhattan.
I felt that way when I used to watch Storage Wars. People paid $30-$50 a month to hang on to that?! Quite often the locker wasn't anywhere close to full.
And that's with the producers "seeding" interesting items in some lockers to make the show more fun to watch!
Pretty sure most of those are more than $30-50 a month. I mean many are in that range, but quite a few of the larger ones are north of $100.
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Colleague's status on facebook:
Our society is so obsessed with STUFF that there is an entire store built around only selling containers to put all of our STUFF in, and it makes enough money to survive in Manhattan.
I felt that way when I used to watch Storage Wars. People paid $30-$50 a month to hang on to that?! Quite often the locker wasn't anywhere close to full.
Wait a minute, you used to pay for cable to watch that?!
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Colleague's status on facebook:
Our society is so obsessed with STUFF that there is an entire store built around only selling containers to put all of our STUFF in, and it makes enough money to survive in Manhattan.
I felt that way when I used to watch Storage Wars. People paid $30-$50 a month to hang on to that?! Quite often the locker wasn't anywhere close to full.
Wait a minute, you used to pay for cable to watch that?!
Hell no, but my father-in-law would have it on the TV at his place. That and pawn stars. And ice road truckers.
I hate reality tv. Seriously.
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I think pretty much all of our C Suite Executives walk, bus, or bike to work. My favorite is the guy who runs ~4 miles to work. Due to back problems he doesn't wear a backpack. His workaround - a jogging stroller! His youngest is in middle school so I'm not sure if it was his from years ago or if he bought a cheap used one. Either way creative solution!
Heh, I love that!
One company I used to work at in downtown Seattle, my boss, I forget his exact title now -maybe controller? anyway, he would run to work in downtown Seattle... from the Issaquah Highlands!
Holy cow. That's quite a run.
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I think pretty much all of our C Suite Executives walk, bus, or bike to work. My favorite is the guy who runs ~4 miles to work. Due to back problems he doesn't wear a backpack. His workaround - a jogging stroller! His youngest is in middle school so I'm not sure if it was his from years ago or if he bought a cheap used one. Either way creative solution!
Heh, I love that!
One company I used to work at in downtown Seattle, my boss, I forget his exact title now -maybe controller? anyway, he would run to work in downtown Seattle... from the Issaquah Highlands!
Holy cow. That's quite a run.
There's one guy here in town who bikes to work 3x a week, 40 miles one way. His office has a huge stash of PB&J.
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I quite often waited in line behind head of accouting (I.e. the 2ic for the cfo) of my large publicly listed company in order to use the microwave to heat leftovers :)
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One of the guys always brings his lunch + often bikes to work. Pretty impressive.
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I recently got a new job. It's in the financial industry and so far, I am very impressed with the caliber of my coworkers and bosses. During training, my fellow new hires and I listened to a presentation about how to build our own personal wealth. They showed us different charts with information on if we invested $100, $200, $500, etc per month into our 401k/ maxed out the IRA, etc, how much money we would have in 20 years. They said if we would max out our 401k (and also get the *50%* match) and max out our IRA each year, we would be millionaires in 14 years. All of my coworkers' eyes lit up. I think it's awesome that they encourage us to invest heavily and that they show how much they care through that generous match.
Also, I was overjoyed this past week discussing how many of my coworkers found their stylish clothes at various thrift stores and to see many of them bringing their lunch to work rather than eating out.
I think I'm going to like this place....
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One of my co workers has always gone out for fast food at lunch. She decided to start eating at work hoping to lose some weight. She started with frozen lean cuisine type meals and noticed several of us bring our own lunch, so she switched to salads she makes each morning herself. She said she has lost some weight but what really got her excited was she 'didn't realize how much cheaper it is to eat your own food'! Now she is telling everyone that you can save a lot of money bringing your own lunch to work.
Hey, she is learning and at least headed I the right direction.
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I recently got a new job. It's in the financial industry and so far, I am very impressed with the caliber of my coworkers and bosses. During training, my fellow new hires and I listened to a presentation about how to build our own personal wealth. They showed us different charts with information on if we invested $100, $200, $500, etc per month into our 401k/ maxed out the IRA, etc, how much money we would have in 20 years. They said if we would max out our 401k (and also get the *50%* match) and max out our IRA each year, we would be millionaires in 14 years. All of my coworkers' eyes lit up. I think it's awesome that they encourage us to invest heavily and that they show how much they care through that generous match.
Also, I was overjoyed this past week discussing how many of my coworkers found their stylish clothes at various thrift stores and to see many of them bringing their lunch to work rather than eating out.
I think I'm going to like this place....
That's amazing!
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I overheard my co worker cancelling her cable subscription :) I also saw a guy put his 10yr old Nokia on the table in a meeting today (impressive that he both had the phone and didn't try to hide it).
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Colleague's status on facebook:
Our society is so obsessed with STUFF that there is an entire store built around only selling containers to put all of our STUFF in, and it makes enough money to survive in Manhattan.
The only caveat I'd throw on to this is that the ability to pack even a modest life into a teeny-tiny New York apartment requires much creative storage... not that I disagree with the larger point, of course.
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On my way to work, I stopped to vote and there was no place to park my bike because the two racks were overflowing. Mind you, it's November in New England, so it was hardly balmy at the time either.
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Wait why is in the anti-antimustachian thread?
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Last week I went on a date with a 23 year old guy and we started talking about making it through school without using student loans (which he had managed to do). I made a joke/sarcastic comment about using credit cards to pay for everything "because that's what they were for." He looked at me like I was crazy, which I found very encouraging. I clarified that I've never carried a cc balance in my life and don't plan to start, and he stopped looking so judge-y. He also uses a flip phone. I might have found a mustachian.
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Last week I went on a date with a 23 year old guy and we started talking about making it through school without using student loans (which he had managed to do). I made a joke/sarcastic comment about using credit cards to pay for everything "because that's what they were for." He looked at me like I was crazy, which I found very encouraging. I clarified that I've never carried a cc balance in my life and don't plan to start, and he stopped looking so judge-y. He also uses a flip phone. I might have found a mustachian.
Yeah, you've found a mustachian in the wild. Careful with those things, when cornered they can become ferocious!
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When I was eating in the tearoom at work the other day (n=15 at the time) I noted that the people who brought their home-cooked lunches to work outnumbered the ones who purchased lunch by 4:1. And the boss just cap-exed a new fridge which is twice the size of the old one, to give people room to store their lunches.
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Last week I went on a date with a 23 year old guy and we started talking about making it through school without using student loans (which he had managed to do). I made a joke/sarcastic comment about using credit cards to pay for everything "because that's what they were for." He looked at me like I was crazy, which I found very encouraging. I clarified that I've never carried a cc balance in my life and don't plan to start, and he stopped looking so judge-y. He also uses a flip phone. I might have found a mustachian.
Yeah, you've found a mustachian in the wild. Careful with those things, when cornered they can become ferocious!
Steve Irwin: "He's a beauty! Just look at the size of his bank accounts!"
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Last week I went on a date with a 23 year old guy and we started talking about making it through school without using student loans (which he had managed to do). I made a joke/sarcastic comment about using credit cards to pay for everything "because that's what they were for." He looked at me like I was crazy, which I found very encouraging. I clarified that I've never carried a cc balance in my life and don't plan to start, and he stopped looking so judge-y. He also uses a flip phone. I might have found a mustachian.
Yeah, you've found a mustachian in the wild. Careful with those things, when cornered they can become ferocious!
Steve Irwin: "He's a beauty! Just look at the size of his bank accounts!"
Crikey! I just lol'd.
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Last week I went on a date with a 23 year old guy and we started talking about making it through school without using student loans (which he had managed to do). I made a joke/sarcastic comment about using credit cards to pay for everything "because that's what they were for." He looked at me like I was crazy, which I found very encouraging. I clarified that I've never carried a cc balance in my life and don't plan to start, and he stopped looking so judge-y. He also uses a flip phone. I might have found a mustachian.
Yeah, you've found a mustachian in the wild. Careful with those things, when cornered they can become ferocious!
Steve Irwin: "He's a beauty! Just look at the size of his bank accounts!"
Crikey! I just lol'd.
+1 Crikey indeed.
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Steve Irwin: "He's a beauty! Just look at the size of his bank accounts!"
Anyone else read that in their heads in Steve's voice?
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Steve Irwin: "He's a beauty! Just look at the size of his bank accounts!"
Anyone else read that in their heads in Steve's voice?
Yea everyone did.
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Steve Irwin: "He's a beauty! Just look at the size of his bank accounts!"
Anyone else read that in their heads in Steve's voice?
Yea everyone did.
Every time someone mentions the words "mustachian in the wild" I think of Steve Irwin.
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Last week I went on a date with a 23 year old guy and we started talking about making it through school without using student loans (which he had managed to do). I made a joke/sarcastic comment about using credit cards to pay for everything "because that's what they were for." He looked at me like I was crazy, which I found very encouraging. I clarified that I've never carried a cc balance in my life and don't plan to start, and he stopped looking so judge-y. He also uses a flip phone. I might have found a mustachian.
Yeah, you've found a mustachian in the wild. Careful with those things, when cornered they can become ferocious!
Steve Irwin: "He's a beauty! Just look at the size of his bank accounts!"
That made me laugh IRL!
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law firm. First person in the name of the firm, who makes a bit more than most people. His wife bought an Accord in late 80's. She wanted newer car. He decided "still running" about 10 years ago, and still drives it every day.
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My office is pretty badass. Most people brown bag it daily (largely, I suspect, because there is only a Subway's close to work) and we're all physically fit. Some of us have nice and new cars, but eh, what can you do? This is the kind of thing that happens in the military lifestyle.
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I frequent Cracked.com for humorous stories and such. An article from a few days ago delved into a few franchises that are poised to go the Marvel route and try to set up multiple movies set in their own universes with some of them being blatant and poorly thought out cash grabs. Some of the author's points are hilarious while others miss the boat (standard for a Cracked article). Regardless, the comments section had this gem:
Well I, for one, am grateful to Hollywood for this trend. Money is tight right now, and the knowledge that there will be no movies I want to see for the foreseeable future will be a great help with my budgeting.
http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/4-baffling-ways-random-movies-are-copying-the-avengers/ (http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/4-baffling-ways-random-movies-are-copying-the-avengers/)
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Got an email from a director here announcing her retirement in less than 2 weeks. Retiring to take care of new grandson. Glad she has that option.
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Overheard yesterday - two colleagues discussing the best way to ensure that they maxed out their annual superannuation contributions while avoiding penalties for over-contribution to tax advantaged accounts (annual limit / pay periods vs. a little bit less than this each fortnight and a catch-up payment at the end of the financial period).
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A head of our section (ca 500 people worldwide) doesn't own a car and takes the same train as myself to work every morning. Still rents the same apartment she had 15 years ago when she had a job similar to what I have now.
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Why isn't she retired yet, then?
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Why isn't she retired yet, then?
I would have to be a close friend of hers to know that (people here are more discreet about finances than in US) and if I were I would definitely not be disclosing it here. My guess would be because she is still only in her early 40-ties and seems to be on a fastback for senior management.
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"Sorry I can't go out to lunch with you guys -- I'm still eating my way through the last bunch of produce from my farm share."
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So, a bunch of us at work got sucked into a "are you ready for retirement" meeting with a guy who presented himself as a "financial educator." Somehow our workplace encouraged the meeting, and I had my suspicions, but I was hoping for a pat on the back or whatever.
He wasn't able to tell any of us much that we didn't already know, since the only ones to sign up were the ones who were somewhat on top of our finances anyway. He was able to run some retirement numbers, but it was more confirmation than new news to anyone.
Turns out the guy came to us in the guise of his "non-profit educational" business that really is a front to drum up business for his other "let me sell you annuities and get you set up with an active management person" business. In the initial "grooming" meeting, he told us that one of his active traders had raked in a "700% return" in the last 14 years. (One of my coworkers replied "You sound like Bernie Madoff talking. That's not a selling point." Kinda startled the guy.)
He has been calling all of us to "follow up" ever since the initial meeting. Nobody has set up a second meeting with him. And we have had a little chat with the manager who proposed the initial appointments, and I don't think the guy will be coming back.
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He has been calling all of us to "follow up" ever since the initial meeting. Nobody has set up a second meeting with him. And we have had a little chat with the manager who proposed the initial appointments, and I don't think the guy will be coming back.
Right so! Starve them out!
There are so many "advisors" of all types running around that just want to sell you your stuff, its amazing if you find a real advisor.
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This thread is wonderful! Even better that the Antimustachian Edition (which I just finished reading through!) :-D
My contribution: I was talking with a co-work about my love of thrifting & the ridiculousness of buying most things new. It turned out we have a shared love of yard-sales and flea market finds. Our talk eventually moved on to finances so I told her about MMM & the general principals of badassity. This past week she said she is now trying to read at least a few articles a week & is re-looking at upping her 401K contributions and investments! :-D Yay!
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A friend of a friend (old co-worker from another job) joined the company I work for as head of a newly created department. I'm to take over her old work, so we had a meeting together. She's in her late 30s and has her hair super on fire as far as I can tell (I didn't get into it too much). However, during the discussion, we got to talking about finance, and I passed on a few things I've learned here through example. She seemed very interested, so hopefully she will be back. I recommended she read "your money or your life" since it'll probably make a bigger impact on her than "the millionaire next door". I'll be sure to come back here in a month or two with some updates!
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Coworker saw my library book sitting on my desk. "Oooh! There's a public library near here?!? Where? Free books are always better."
2 websites for the bibliophile:
http://bookshelfporn.com/
http://littlemissdorkette.tumblr.com/post/3118512524/date-a-girl-who-reads-by-rosemarie-urquico
Couldn't resist this. A little off topic and a couple of choice words, but a great little skit on girls who read.
http://youtu.be/lmEbF2uhsZk
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Got a good one last week.
Coworker (our bookkeeper actually) is telling me about the oil changes on her Lexus.
"There are LEDs on either side of the entry that light up as you pull through to guide you. There's a screen that senses your car and welcomes you by name! There's a brand new Lexus at your disposal if you need to go run an errand, by why would you? There's a full bar, a movie theater, snacks, bottled water . . . and best of all, it's free!"
Free, eh? Not part of the purchase price of the vehicle? Not part of that payment you're making every month? Sign me up!
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Got a good one last week.
Coworker (our bookkeeper actually) is telling me about the oil changes on her Lexus.
"There are LEDs on either side of the entry that light up as you pull through to guide you. There's a screen that senses your car and welcomes you by name! There's a brand new Lexus at your disposal if you need to go run an errand, by why would you? There's a full bar, a movie theater, snacks, bottled water . . . and best of all, it's free!"
Free, eh? Not part of the purchase price of the vehicle? Not part of that payment you're making every month? Sign me up!
? Shouldn't this be in the Antimustachian thread?
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I was taking my daily lunch break walk and I overheard another walker mention that she was keeping the thermostat a 66, and just firing up the gas logs for a minute to warm up her backside after coming in from the cold.
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Got a good one last week.
Coworker (our bookkeeper actually) is telling me about the oil changes on her Lexus.
"There are LEDs on either side of the entry that light up as you pull through to guide you. There's a screen that senses your car and welcomes you by name! There's a brand new Lexus at your disposal if you need to go run an errand, by why would you? There's a full bar, a movie theater, snacks, bottled water . . . and best of all, it's free!"
Free, eh? Not part of the purchase price of the vehicle? Not part of that payment you're making every month? Sign me up!
? Shouldn't this be in the Antimustachian thread?
I'm confused! The anti-anti? I thought it was anti-anti-anti! Yes, it needs to be moved, but I don't see how I can do that, need a mod?
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Ooh, I like this thread! I wish it had existed a few months back, because I've forgotten some of the details. My co-worker was giving me a ride home and was feeling a little embarrassed about her car. She bought it used seven years ago for $4-5K. She seemed embarrassed because I think she thought I would judge her for going used/buying an inexpensive car, but it was functional, it was cute, and she owns it outright. I don't drive (no license) and I don't have a car, but if I ever get around to it, that's the way I want to go :).
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You can't move it, but you can remove the post here and make a new one in the right thread.
On my way to work, I stopped to vote and there was no place to park my bike because the two racks were overflowing. Mind you, it's November in New England, so it was hardly balmy at the time either.
I just realized why there was confusion about the location of this post. When I said "two racks were overflowing" I meant two of these:
(http://www.belson.com/Images/BikeRacksGuide-Traditional-M-001.jpg)
My point was that there were a crap load of people who rode their bikes on a cold morning to vote.
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My intern asked me about IRAs today - this lead to a discussion about early retirement, what types of investments I have, index funds, and getting started early.
He seemed amused and shocked, but also intrigued at my plan to retire in 8-10 years; I hope he goes home and opens that IRA he was asking about!
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While I was eating lunch today in the small cafeteria at work, another employee was extolling the virtues of biking to work. He mentioned never regretting riding his bike to work even when it was cold out, how efficient the exercise was, and he even spoke of the cost savings. I almost asked if he was familiar with the MMM website.
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While I was eating lunch today in the small cafeteria at work, another employee was extolling the virtues of biking to work. He mentioned never regretting riding his bike to work even when it was cold out, how efficient the exercise was, and he even spoke of the cost savings. I almost asked if he was familiar with the MMM website.
You should ask him! Seems like a prime candidate to become a Mustachian if he isn't already.
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Ran into a former coworker on my walk into work a month ago. She has been taking the free trolley and walking the rest of the way in. When she heard that I had no intention of driving even as the weather got cold, she made her rethink her plan to convert since she and her husband have only 1 car.
We happened to run into each other again on the morning it was below freezing and laughed about how the cold weather walk wasn't too bad of an experience.
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One of the NCOs in my unit is leaving the Army in about 6 months. I've heard whispers that he's insanely frugal, but over lunch the other day I found out he's saved almost every dime from this deployment. He's not maintaining an apartment back home, no car payment, and no other bills except maybe a storage shed. From what I can tell he doesn't spend any money on himself either out here (fast food, toys, hobbies). His frugality is occasionally joked at amongst his social circle, and I've been wanting to sit down and trade notes on the what and whys. He's either just a mustachian at heart or he's hedging against any problems with a job search after he departs. Either way I like where his head is.
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I've been a SAHM for over 20 years now, so I guess I retired really early ... haha!
One thing I do recall from my working days was how everyone in the staffroom brought either leftovers or homemade sandwiches for lunch. Someone buying their lunch would have been a real oddity in my workplace back in 1988!
Awesome thread -- just read it from start to finish!
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A bunch of us (mostly retired) were sitting around at coffee this morning, and we got to talking vacations. I am in a mustachian hotbed. They all pay their credit cards off in full every month, no-one pays interest. They all have either a reward miles or cash-back card or both. Some (not all) of them are visiting "home" in Europe (dual citizens), so their travel is not cheap, but with the card rewards they are not spending much. They book last minute cruises (cheap). It was wonderful.
(And to refute some of the guys on this forum who have posited that women are "spendypants", these were all women. Mind you, their spouses are on board with this sensible spending.)
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Ground beef was on sale today so we stocked up with 20 pounds. Divided it into ziploc half pound portions, flatten and freeze them .
Husband just talked to a friend online and she said "oh yeah, we saw that sale and stocked up too!" Apparently she freezes portions the same way!
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(And to refute some of the guys on this forum who have posited that women are "spendypants", these were all women. Mind you, their spouses are on board with this sensible spending.)
Are you sure? I think mustachian women might actually be somewhat more common than men. All anecdotally derived statements wrong or your money back, of course.
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I assume that everyone I come across online is a man, but in fairness, I know there are definitely a few mustachian ladies out there. It's just a different set of temptations for them than there are for men. They're told that they must spend money on clothing and makeup, we're told we must spend money on sportscars and I don't know/care what else.
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I assume that everyone I come across online is a man, but in fairness, I know there are definitely a few mustachian ladies out there. It's just a different set of temptations for them than there are for men. They're told that they must spend money on clothing and makeup, we're told we must spend money on sportscars and I don't know/care what else.
This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
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Sorry in advance, I am going to totally derail this mini-thread.
Lots of us probably have gender neutral names - I do.
So GrayGhost, why do you assume everyone you come across online is a man? There are lots of women (clearly identified as such) posting on the journal group.
When I am on Ravelry I assume the odds are high (but definitely not 100%) that a gender-neutral name is a female poster, but there are men there too. However it is a site about an activity that tends to be engaged in more by women. Finance is gender neutral. 0r to be more realistic, since on average women live longer than men, we should be more interested in our financial futures, not less, than men are. So should I assume that most people on here, not clearly identified as men, are women? Especially since my gut feeling is that women are more likely to be ambiguous about gender identificaiton on an open forum?
I assume that everyone I come across online is a man, but in fairness, I know there are definitely a few mustachian ladies out there. It's just a different set of temptations for them than there are for men. They're told that they must spend money on clothing and makeup, we're told we must spend money on sportscars and I don't know/care what else.
This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
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On Wednesday, I contacted our 401k plan administrator and found out that the mega Backdoor Roth is a valid option at my company. My coworker overheard, leading to an in depth discussion on how this changed the game since he and his wife also max out their 401ks. He got excited when he read the Mad FIentist article and was going to bring the article home to discuss strategy with his wife.
He also talked about how he was excited that his 8 year old son could get a job when he hit 16 just so he could help him start a Roth.
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This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
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On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
Data?
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This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
Actually for a survey that actually may hit statistical significance. But you'd have to account for self-selection and I don't have the stats on the difference between men and women in filling out online surveys.
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I spoke few days ago with one of the trainees (a student basically) we have at work about the expense of living here and was really impressed that he manages to live just fine on about 1,000$ a month. Just for a perspective the equivalent would be living in NYC or San Francisco on 20k. May apartment alone costs 1,600….
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A coworker from a different location told me today that he plans to retire between 30 and 35. He hasn't exactly figured out how to do it yet, but he is saving a good deal of his pay check to do so. I excitedly told him that I was doing this too. I then told him about index funds and that I was currently doing some tax reduction planning. He said that he would look at MMM and look into index funds.
I haven't ever gotten along with the guy, but maybe things will change now.
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This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
Running a quick Chi square test with an assumed 50/50 distribution, we get a two-tailed P=0.064, which is barely not enough to reject the null hypothesis that there are as many men as women on this forum (P>0.05). A bigger N actually may have pushed it over to prove that there are more women than men here.
It of course does not assume any selection bias, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the phrasing of a question of gender, since it's not an ambiguous question (as opposed to "are you for or against" type questions). I would not assume that most people on this forum are men.
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Running a quick Chi square test...
Someone just got nerd sniped (http://www.xkcd.com/356/)! That's never happened to me. ;)
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This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
Running a quick Chi square test with an assumed 50/50 distribution, we get a two-tailed P=0.064, which is barely not enough to reject the null hypothesis that there are as many men as women on this forum (P>0.05). A bigger N actually may have pushed it over to prove that there are more women than men here.
It of course does not assume any selection bias, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the phrasing of a question of gender, since it's not an ambiguous question (as opposed to "are you for or against" type questions). I would not assume that most people on this forum are men.
.064 hints very, very strongly, more strongly than other stuff that has been acted upon before.
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This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
Running a quick Chi square test with an assumed 50/50 distribution, we get a two-tailed P=0.064, which is barely not enough to reject the null hypothesis that there are as many men as women on this forum (P>0.05). A bigger N actually may have pushed it over to prove that there are more women than men here.
It of course does not assume any selection bias, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the phrasing of a question of gender, since it's not an ambiguous question (as opposed to "are you for or against" type questions). I would not assume that most people on this forum are men.
.064 hints very, very strongly, more strongly than other stuff that has been acted upon before.
.064 is not statistically significant. All it hints is that we may be able to get significance if we increase the N large enough. However, for a survey over 300 is normally enough unless their is bias, which I don't know.
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This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
Running a quick Chi square test with an assumed 50/50 distribution, we get a two-tailed P=0.064, which is barely not enough to reject the null hypothesis that there are as many men as women on this forum (P>0.05). A bigger N actually may have pushed it over to prove that there are more women than men here.
It of course does not assume any selection bias, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the phrasing of a question of gender, since it's not an ambiguous question (as opposed to "are you for or against" type questions). I would not assume that most people on this forum are men.
.064 hints very, very strongly, more strongly than other stuff that has been acted upon before.
.064 is not statistically significant. All it hints is that we may be able to get significance if we increase the N large enough. However, for a survey over 300 is normally enough unless their is bias, which I don't know.
.05 is a pretty arbitrary cutoff. I think in this instance we don't need to have any more confidence to call the race, assuming of course like you say there isn't any bias we are missing. It's not like we actually need to be right, anyway. If anything of significance was riding on this I would call for more testing, but meh.
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This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
Running a quick Chi square test with an assumed 50/50 distribution, we get a two-tailed P=0.064, which is barely not enough to reject the null hypothesis that there are as many men as women on this forum (P>0.05). A bigger N actually may have pushed it over to prove that there are more women than men here.
It of course does not assume any selection bias, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the phrasing of a question of gender, since it's not an ambiguous question (as opposed to "are you for or against" type questions). I would not assume that most people on this forum are men.
.064 hints very, very strongly, more strongly than other stuff that has been acted upon before.
.064 is not statistically significant. All it hints is that we may be able to get significance if we increase the N large enough. However, for a survey over 300 is normally enough unless their is bias, which I don't know.
.05 is a pretty arbitrary cutoff. I think in this instance we don't need to have any more confidence to call the race, assuming of course like you say there isn't any bias we are missing. It's not like we actually need to be right, anyway. If anything of significance was riding on this I would call for more testing, but meh.
Yes, it is but it is a cut off determined by researchers in human research for many years. Unless we get there I am going to stick with, we don't know.
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This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
Running a quick Chi square test with an assumed 50/50 distribution, we get a two-tailed P=0.064, which is barely not enough to reject the null hypothesis that there are as many men as women on this forum (P>0.05). A bigger N actually may have pushed it over to prove that there are more women than men here.
It of course does not assume any selection bias, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the phrasing of a question of gender, since it's not an ambiguous question (as opposed to "are you for or against" type questions). I would not assume that most people on this forum are men.
.064 hints very, very strongly, more strongly than other stuff that has been acted upon before.
.064 is not statistically significant. All it hints is that we may be able to get significance if we increase the N large enough. However, for a survey over 300 is normally enough unless their is bias, which I don't know.
.05 is a pretty arbitrary cutoff. I think in this instance we don't need to have any more confidence to call the race, assuming of course like you say there isn't any bias we are missing. It's not like we actually need to be right, anyway. If anything of significance was riding on this I would call for more testing, but meh.
Yes, it is but it is a cut off determined by researchers in human research for many years. Unless we get there I am going to stick with, we don't know.
93.6% chance we're right isn't good enough? The usual cutoff of. 05 is more when you can start to mention it in a paper, not that it didn't tell you which direction you should be looking.
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This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
Running a quick Chi square test with an assumed 50/50 distribution, we get a two-tailed P=0.064, which is barely not enough to reject the null hypothesis that there are as many men as women on this forum (P>0.05). A bigger N actually may have pushed it over to prove that there are more women than men here.
It of course does not assume any selection bias, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the phrasing of a question of gender, since it's not an ambiguous question (as opposed to "are you for or against" type questions). I would not assume that most people on this forum are men.
.064 hints very, very strongly, more strongly than other stuff that has been acted upon before.
.064 is not statistically significant. All it hints is that we may be able to get significance if we increase the N large enough. However, for a survey over 300 is normally enough unless their is bias, which I don't know.
.05 is a pretty arbitrary cutoff. I think in this instance we don't need to have any more confidence to call the race, assuming of course like you say there isn't any bias we are missing. It's not like we actually need to be right, anyway. If anything of significance was riding on this I would call for more testing, but meh.
Yes, it is but it is a cut off determined by researchers in human research for many years. Unless we get there I am going to stick with, we don't know.
93.6% chance we're right isn't good enough? The usual cutoff of. 05 is more when you can start to mention it in a paper, not that it didn't tell you which direction you should be looking.
This is not what the p value means. From Wikipedia (if you don't trust Wikipedia, I'm sure I could find a better source with better searching).
There are several common misunderstandings about p-values.[15][16]
The p-value is not the probability that the null hypothesis is true, nor is it the probability that the alternative hypothesis is false – it is not connected to either of these. In fact, frequentist statistics does not, and cannot, attach probabilities to hypotheses. Comparison of Bayesian and classical approaches shows that a p-value can be very close to zero while the posterior probability of the null is very close to unity (if there is no alternative hypothesis with a large enough a priori probability and which would explain the results more easily). This is Lindley's paradox. But there are also a priori probability distributions where the posterior probability and the p-value have similar or equal values.[17]
The p-value is not the probability that a finding is "merely a fluke." Calculating the p-value is based on the assumption that every finding is a fluke, that is, the product of chance alone. Thus, the probability that the result is due to chance is in fact unity. The phrase "the results are due to chance" is used to mean that the null hypothesis is probably correct. However, that is merely a restatement of the inverse probability fallacy, since the p-value cannot be used to figure out the probability of a hypothesis being true.
The p-value is not the probability of falsely rejecting the null hypothesis. This error is a version of the so-called prosecutor's fallacy.
The p-value is not the probability that replicating the experiment would yield the same conclusion. Quantifying the replicability of an experiment was attempted through the concept of p-rep.
The significance level, such as 0.05, is not determined by the p-value. Rather, the significance level is decided by the person conducting the experiment (with the value 0.05 widely used by the scientific community) before the data are viewed, and is compared against the calculated p-value after the test has been performed. (However, reporting a p-value is more useful than simply saying that the results were or were not significant at a given level, and allows readers to decide for themselves whether to consider the results significant.)
The p-value does not indicate the size or importance of the observed effect. The two do vary together however–the larger the effect, the smaller sample size will be required to get a significant p-value (see effect size).
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This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
Running a quick Chi square test with an assumed 50/50 distribution, we get a two-tailed P=0.064, which is barely not enough to reject the null hypothesis that there are as many men as women on this forum (P>0.05). A bigger N actually may have pushed it over to prove that there are more women than men here.
It of course does not assume any selection bias, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the phrasing of a question of gender, since it's not an ambiguous question (as opposed to "are you for or against" type questions). I would not assume that most people on this forum are men.
.064 hints very, very strongly, more strongly than other stuff that has been acted upon before.
.064 is not statistically significant. All it hints is that we may be able to get significance if we increase the N large enough. However, for a survey over 300 is normally enough unless their is bias, which I don't know.
.05 is a pretty arbitrary cutoff. I think in this instance we don't need to have any more confidence to call the race, assuming of course like you say there isn't any bias we are missing. It's not like we actually need to be right, anyway. If anything of significance was riding on this I would call for more testing, but meh.
Yes, it is but it is a cut off determined by researchers in human research for many years. Unless we get there I am going to stick with, we don't know.
93.6% chance we're right isn't good enough? The usual cutoff of. 05 is more when you can start to mention it in a paper, not that it didn't tell you which direction you should be looking.
This is not what the p value means. From Wikipedia (if you don't trust Wikipedia, I'm sure I could find a better source with better searching).
There are several common misunderstandings about p-values.[15][16]
The p-value is not the probability that the null hypothesis is true, nor is it the probability that the alternative hypothesis is false – it is not connected to either of these. In fact, frequentist statistics does not, and cannot, attach probabilities to hypotheses. Comparison of Bayesian and classical approaches shows that a p-value can be very close to zero while the posterior probability of the null is very close to unity (if there is no alternative hypothesis with a large enough a priori probability and which would explain the results more easily). This is Lindley's paradox. But there are also a priori probability distributions where the posterior probability and the p-value have similar or equal values.[17]
The p-value is not the probability that a finding is "merely a fluke." Calculating the p-value is based on the assumption that every finding is a fluke, that is, the product of chance alone. Thus, the probability that the result is due to chance is in fact unity. The phrase "the results are due to chance" is used to mean that the null hypothesis is probably correct. However, that is merely a restatement of the inverse probability fallacy, since the p-value cannot be used to figure out the probability of a hypothesis being true.
The p-value is not the probability of falsely rejecting the null hypothesis. This error is a version of the so-called prosecutor's fallacy.
The p-value is not the probability that replicating the experiment would yield the same conclusion. Quantifying the replicability of an experiment was attempted through the concept of p-rep.
The significance level, such as 0.05, is not determined by the p-value. Rather, the significance level is decided by the person conducting the experiment (with the value 0.05 widely used by the scientific community) before the data are viewed, and is compared against the calculated p-value after the test has been performed. (However, reporting a p-value is more useful than simply saying that the results were or were not significant at a given level, and allows readers to decide for themselves whether to consider the results significant.)
The p-value does not indicate the size or importance of the observed effect. The two do vary together however–the larger the effect, the smaller sample size will be required to get a significant p-value (see effect size).
What a beautiful example of alliteration.
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Running a quick Chi square test...
Someone just got nerd sniped (http://www.xkcd.com/356/)! That's never happened to me. ;)
hmm...
3pt for skunkfunk and Gin1984 each
1pt each for WP quoter and Alliteration?
=8PT
not bad for one post.
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This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
Running a quick Chi square test with an assumed 50/50 distribution, we get a two-tailed P=0.064, which is barely not enough to reject the null hypothesis that there are as many men as women on this forum (P>0.05). A bigger N actually may have pushed it over to prove that there are more women than men here.
It of course does not assume any selection bias, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the phrasing of a question of gender, since it's not an ambiguous question (as opposed to "are you for or against" type questions). I would not assume that most people on this forum are men.
.064 hints very, very strongly, more strongly than other stuff that has been acted upon before.
.064 is not statistically significant. All it hints is that we may be able to get significance if we increase the N large enough. However, for a survey over 300 is normally enough unless their is bias, which I don't know.
.05 is a pretty arbitrary cutoff. I think in this instance we don't need to have any more confidence to call the race, assuming of course like you say there isn't any bias we are missing. It's not like we actually need to be right, anyway. If anything of significance was riding on this I would call for more testing, but meh.
Yes, it is but it is a cut off determined by researchers in human research for many years. Unless we get there I am going to stick with, we don't know.
93.6% chance we're right isn't good enough? The usual cutoff of. 05 is more when you can start to mention it in a paper, not that it didn't tell you which direction you should be looking.
Given that the initial hypothesis was that there are significantly more men than women on the forum, which later was argued against using the survey data (and stating that there are more women than men), I'd say that the survey results do disprove that there are more men than women on the forum at the very least. Yay surveys!
Also, it made me glad to see that there are many other women on this forum - yes, there are women who are anti-mustachian with additional expenses like makeup, jewelry, and clothes, but there are many who aren't that way!
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This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
Running a quick Chi square test with an assumed 50/50 distribution, we get a two-tailed P=0.064, which is barely not enough to reject the null hypothesis that there are as many men as women on this forum (P>0.05). A bigger N actually may have pushed it over to prove that there are more women than men here.
It of course does not assume any selection bias, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the phrasing of a question of gender, since it's not an ambiguous question (as opposed to "are you for or against" type questions). I would not assume that most people on this forum are men.
.064 hints very, very strongly, more strongly than other stuff that has been acted upon before.
.064 is not statistically significant. All it hints is that we may be able to get significance if we increase the N large enough. However, for a survey over 300 is normally enough unless their is bias, which I don't know.
.05 is a pretty arbitrary cutoff. I think in this instance we don't need to have any more confidence to call the race, assuming of course like you say there isn't any bias we are missing. It's not like we actually need to be right, anyway. If anything of significance was riding on this I would call for more testing, but meh.
Yes, it is but it is a cut off determined by researchers in human research for many years. Unless we get there I am going to stick with, we don't know.
93.6% chance we're right isn't good enough? The usual cutoff of. 05 is more when you can start to mention it in a paper, not that it didn't tell you which direction you should be looking.
Given that the initial hypothesis was that there are significantly more men than women on the forum, which later was argued against using the survey data (and stating that there are more women than men), I'd say that the survey results do disprove that there are more men than women on the forum at the very least. Yay surveys!
Also, it made me glad to see that there are many other women on this forum - yes, there are women who are anti-mustachian with additional expenses like makeup, jewelry, and clothes, but there are many who aren't that way!
I like makeup (expensive kind), jewelry and clothes. However, I like time more than makeup so only use it when dressing up/presenting and because it is a good quality, it lasts. I get giving most of my jewelry and what I buy is normally used. And clothes, well that is used or gifted normally as well. Just because people like those items does not mean they cannot be mustachian.
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That's true, Gin1984, I'm sorry I made the assumption.
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This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
Running a quick Chi square test with an assumed 50/50 distribution, we get a two-tailed P=0.064, which is barely not enough to reject the null hypothesis that there are as many men as women on this forum (P>0.05). A bigger N actually may have pushed it over to prove that there are more women than men here.
It of course does not assume any selection bias, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the phrasing of a question of gender, since it's not an ambiguous question (as opposed to "are you for or against" type questions). I would not assume that most people on this forum are men.
Or we could take a Bayesian approach to the problem. Let's say there are two people: Blue believes that most internet forums are generally evenly distributed, and Red believes that forums are typically about 70% male, with <10% of forums having 50% or more women. These are just beliefs that two people have accumulated through experience, and without any other information, it makes sense for Red and Blue to make similar assumptions about this forum. Now we've got some data, through the survey, and Bayes' rule tells each person how to update their beliefs about this forum with the given data.
(http://i.imgur.com/hQXOQKJ.png)
For both Red and Blue, the additional data now lead them both to believe that there are likely more women than men in this forum. The outcomes are slightly different, since they had different starting beliefs, but 355 people is a lot of people, so the data are definitely dominating the outcome. Maybe someone can help me add in assumptions about women being more likely to answer the poll.
This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
There's a famous joke about this.. If you don't believe a small random sample can work, then when you need to get bloodwork done, tell your doctor to take it all. Statistics were designed precisely to help us draw inferences from small samples, and actually, 2% sampling is a huge amount compared to a lot of work being done all the time.
Something sort of on topic, because I realize I've veered way off course: today we had a going away party for a coworker during lunch, and we celebrated by everyone bringing their packed lunch and eating together in the break room. The departing coworker brought cake.
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I love when my work buddies all sit around and brag about their iPhones. I casually break out my 8 year old flip phone and let them make fun of it then gently tell them I own the greatest Apple product of them all......their stock. Then thank them for their "donations".
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I am sure this has done the rounds, but for those of you who missed it:
https://kyleconroy.com/apple-stock (https://kyleconroy.com/apple-stock)
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I love when my work buddies all sit around and brag about their iPhones. I casually break out my 8 year old flip phone and let them make fun of it then gently tell them I own the greatest Apple product of them all......their stock. Then thank them for their "donations".
I like it! May have to borrow that line.
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The co worker who trained me is the most mustachian person I know. He eats rice and beans most days for work and never eats out. He takes the train to work, doesn't even own a car. He paid off his mortgage on his condo years ago. He only drinks water, never any coffee or anything like that. He basically sends his salary home to his family in Venezuela and saves the rest. He always inspires me to be thankful for what I have.
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Colleague's status on facebook:
Our society is so obsessed with STUFF that there is an entire store built around only selling containers to put all of our STUFF in, and it makes enough money to survive in Manhattan.
Could be that in Manhattan it's not an abundance of stuff but a lack of square footage to keep it in.
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For the most part, the people here are pretty mustachian. I believe that my manager is actually on this site, or has been in the past. Another guy rents an apartment with a roommate, just bought a new Honda Accord that I expect he'll keep for 15 years. Another walks to work, another makes her own laundry detergent. Obviously everyone has non-mustachian aspects to their lives as well, but I have very few anti-mustachian stories from here. Most of the ones I do have would still be considered financially sound--they'd probably fit in at the Boglehead forums.
I suspect I'm the only one putting away over 40% of my paycheck, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that I'm not.
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It's not at work, but it's at home while on vacation from work, so it counts ;)
While at my family Christmas gathering, my aunts and uncles (7 including my father) were reliving their childhood. They were talking about how as members of a large family while times were tough, they each only got ONE present each Christmas. In lieu of actual toys, they would cut out the people from the Sears-Roebuck catalogue. They would cut out clothes for the people, they would cut out a picture of a washing-machine to 'wash their clothes'. They would cut out tires from cars, put them on cardboard and stick them on the side of shoe boxes. You could tell by the gleam in their eye that they probably had just as much fun with cutouts from the catalogue as they would have from real toys.
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Surprised to find I'm enjoying this thread even more than the other one!
Agreed! Unfortunately my stories will belong in the other thread.
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CW (age 50-ish): "I was talking to my friend and he's taking a loan from his 401(k). Guess how much he has? Only 7,000. What an idiot."
Me (~1 year out of college): "Holy !@#$%^&*, *I* have more than that."
CW: "Yeah, I think my cat has more than that."
That cat is part of the 1%.
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http://littlemissdorkette.tumblr.com/post/3118512524/date-a-girl-who-reads-by-rosemarie-urquico
Reading this moved me far more than I expected. Thank you SO much for sharing - you made my day (at 2am, no less.)
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Colleague's status on facebook:
Our society is so obsessed with STUFF that there is an entire store built around only selling containers to put all of our STUFF in, and it makes enough money to survive in Manhattan.
LOL
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http://littlemissdorkette.tumblr.com/post/3118512524/date-a-girl-who-reads-by-rosemarie-urquico
Reading this moved me far more than I expected. Thank you SO much for sharing - you made my day (at 2am, no less.)
Pleased to hear that ^^
It moved me a lot, too.
If you like it, perhaps you will also like the "Book Girl" (bungaku shoujo) series. I just got the book 2-8 for christmas after seeing the film and reading the first book. I just adore Tohko (the book girl, who... no, thats a secret :D).
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They said if we would max out our 401k (and also get the *50%* match)
HOLY COW.
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I assume that everyone I come across online is a man, but in fairness, I know there are definitely a few mustachian ladies out there. It's just a different set of temptations for them than there are for men. They're told that they must spend money on clothing and makeup, we're told we must spend money on sportscars and I don't know/care what else.
This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
Or... do women answer surveys more often then men?
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This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
Running a quick Chi square test with an assumed 50/50 distribution, we get a two-tailed P=0.064, which is barely not enough to reject the null hypothesis that there are as many men as women on this forum (P>0.05). A bigger N actually may have pushed it over to prove that there are more women than men here.
It of course does not assume any selection bias, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the phrasing of a question of gender, since it's not an ambiguous question (as opposed to "are you for or against" type questions). I would not assume that most people on this forum are men.
.064 hints very, very strongly, more strongly than other stuff that has been acted upon before.
.064 is not statistically significant. All it hints is that we may be able to get significance if we increase the N large enough. However, for a survey over 300 is normally enough unless their is bias, which I don't know.
In the interest of stopping this discussion... here is the alexa data on MMM users. (http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/mrmoneymustache.com+)
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This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
Running a quick Chi square test with an assumed 50/50 distribution, we get a two-tailed P=0.064, which is barely not enough to reject the null hypothesis that there are as many men as women on this forum (P>0.05). A bigger N actually may have pushed it over to prove that there are more women than men here.
It of course does not assume any selection bias, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the phrasing of a question of gender, since it's not an ambiguous question (as opposed to "are you for or against" type questions). I would not assume that most people on this forum are men.
.064 hints very, very strongly, more strongly than other stuff that has been acted upon before.
.064 is not statistically significant. All it hints is that we may be able to get significance if we increase the N large enough. However, for a survey over 300 is normally enough unless their is bias, which I don't know.
In the interest of stopping this discussion... here is the alexa data on MMM users. (http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/mrmoneymustache.com+)
That was interesting.
I'm no statistician (and my grad school stats class was almost 2 decades ago), but in my engineering job, if I get 0.1, we consider it a very strong suggestion of a correlation.
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This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
Running a quick Chi square test with an assumed 50/50 distribution, we get a two-tailed P=0.064, which is barely not enough to reject the null hypothesis that there are as many men as women on this forum (P>0.05). A bigger N actually may have pushed it over to prove that there are more women than men here.
It of course does not assume any selection bias, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the phrasing of a question of gender, since it's not an ambiguous question (as opposed to "are you for or against" type questions). I would not assume that most people on this forum are men.
.064 hints very, very strongly, more strongly than other stuff that has been acted upon before.
.064 is not statistically significant. All it hints is that we may be able to get significance if we increase the N large enough. However, for a survey over 300 is normally enough unless their is bias, which I don't know.
In the interest of stopping this discussion... here is the alexa data on MMM users. (http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/mrmoneymustache.com+)
That was interesting.
I'm no statistician (and my grad school stats class was almost 2 decades ago), but in my engineering job, if I get 0.1, we consider it a very strong suggestion of a correlation.
Agreed!
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This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
Running a quick Chi square test with an assumed 50/50 distribution, we get a two-tailed P=0.064, which is barely not enough to reject the null hypothesis that there are as many men as women on this forum (P>0.05). A bigger N actually may have pushed it over to prove that there are more women than men here.
It of course does not assume any selection bias, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the phrasing of a question of gender, since it's not an ambiguous question (as opposed to "are you for or against" type questions). I would not assume that most people on this forum are men.
.064 hints very, very strongly, more strongly than other stuff that has been acted upon before.
.064 is not statistically significant. All it hints is that we may be able to get significance if we increase the N large enough. However, for a survey over 300 is normally enough unless their is bias, which I don't know.
In the interest of stopping this discussion... here is the alexa data on MMM users. (http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/mrmoneymustache.com+)
That was interesting.
I'm no statistician (and my grad school stats class was almost 2 decades ago), but in my engineering job, if I get 0.1, we consider it a very strong suggestion of a correlation.
P=.1? Really? As someone whose undergrad had a concentration in stats, that scares me. We teach freshman year stats students that significance is .05 or less (for some fields even .01). I am in research and if someone even did a poster with .1, I'd be rolling my eyes. What kind of engineering do you do?
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This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
Running a quick Chi square test with an assumed 50/50 distribution, we get a two-tailed P=0.064, which is barely not enough to reject the null hypothesis that there are as many men as women on this forum (P>0.05). A bigger N actually may have pushed it over to prove that there are more women than men here.
It of course does not assume any selection bias, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the phrasing of a question of gender, since it's not an ambiguous question (as opposed to "are you for or against" type questions). I would not assume that most people on this forum are men.
.064 hints very, very strongly, more strongly than other stuff that has been acted upon before.
.064 is not statistically significant. All it hints is that we may be able to get significance if we increase the N large enough. However, for a survey over 300 is normally enough unless their is bias, which I don't know.
In the interest of stopping this discussion... here is the alexa data on MMM users. (http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/mrmoneymustache.com+)
That was interesting.
I'm no statistician (and my grad school stats class was almost 2 decades ago), but in my engineering job, if I get 0.1, we consider it a very strong suggestion of a correlation.
P=.1? Really? As someone whose undergrad had a concentration in stats, that scares me. We teach freshman year stats students that significance is .05 or less (for some fields even .01). I am in research and if someone even did a poster with .1, I'd be rolling my eyes. What kind of engineering do you do?
You wouldn't take this as a hint that you might be looking in the right direction? Really? "Guys, P was only .1, we have nothing here. Scrap it."
I wouldn't put it in a paper, but with a limited sample, it's a nice clue.
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P=.1? Really? As someone whose undergrad had a concentration in stats, that scares me. We teach freshman year stats students that significance is .05 or less (for some fields even .01). I am in research and if someone even did a poster with .1, I'd be rolling my eyes. What kind of engineering do you do?
from my experience either Deutsche Bahn Wettervorhersage or something with terrorism.
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This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
Running a quick Chi square test with an assumed 50/50 distribution, we get a two-tailed P=0.064, which is barely not enough to reject the null hypothesis that there are as many men as women on this forum (P>0.05). A bigger N actually may have pushed it over to prove that there are more women than men here.
It of course does not assume any selection bias, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the phrasing of a question of gender, since it's not an ambiguous question (as opposed to "are you for or against" type questions). I would not assume that most people on this forum are men.
.064 hints very, very strongly, more strongly than other stuff that has been acted upon before.
.064 is not statistically significant. All it hints is that we may be able to get significance if we increase the N large enough. However, for a survey over 300 is normally enough unless their is bias, which I don't know.
In the interest of stopping this discussion... here is the alexa data on MMM users. (http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/mrmoneymustache.com+)
That was interesting.
I'm no statistician (and my grad school stats class was almost 2 decades ago), but in my engineering job, if I get 0.1, we consider it a very strong suggestion of a correlation.
P=.1? Really? As someone whose undergrad had a concentration in stats, that scares me. We teach freshman year stats students that significance is .05 or less (for some fields even .01). I am in research and if someone even did a poster with .1, I'd be rolling my eyes. What kind of engineering do you do?
You wouldn't take this as a hint that you might be looking in the right direction? Really? "Guys, P was only .1, we have nothing here. Scrap it."
I wouldn't put it in a paper, but with a limited sample, it's a nice clue.
As I said ".064 is not statistically significant. All it hints is that we may be able to get significance if we increase the N large enough. However, for a survey over 300 is normally enough unless their is bias, which I don't know." Given that the sample size is large enough, unless there is data to suggest that one gender does online surveys more than the other, there is nothing more to be done. It is not like the sample size is ten or something.
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May be relevant -
http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED501717.pdf
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This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
Running a quick Chi square test with an assumed 50/50 distribution, we get a two-tailed P=0.064, which is barely not enough to reject the null hypothesis that there are as many men as women on this forum (P>0.05). A bigger N actually may have pushed it over to prove that there are more women than men here.
It of course does not assume any selection bias, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the phrasing of a question of gender, since it's not an ambiguous question (as opposed to "are you for or against" type questions). I would not assume that most people on this forum are men.
.064 hints very, very strongly, more strongly than other stuff that has been acted upon before.
.064 is not statistically significant. All it hints is that we may be able to get significance if we increase the N large enough. However, for a survey over 300 is normally enough unless their is bias, which I don't know.
In the interest of stopping this discussion... here is the alexa data on MMM users. (http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/mrmoneymustache.com+)
That was interesting.
I'm no statistician (and my grad school stats class was almost 2 decades ago), but in my engineering job, if I get 0.1, we consider it a very strong suggestion of a correlation.
P=.1? Really? As someone whose undergrad had a concentration in stats, that scares me. We teach freshman year stats students that significance is .05 or less (for some fields even .01). I am in research and if someone even did a poster with .1, I'd be rolling my eyes. What kind of engineering do you do?
You wouldn't take this as a hint that you might be looking in the right direction? Really? "Guys, P was only .1, we have nothing here. Scrap it."
I wouldn't put it in a paper, but with a limited sample, it's a nice clue.
As I said ".064 is not statistically significant. All it hints is that we may be able to get significance if we increase the N large enough. However, for a survey over 300 is normally enough unless their is bias, which I don't know." Given that the sample size is large enough, unless there is data to suggest that one gender does online surveys more than the other, there is nothing more to be done. It is not like the sample size is ten or something.
I have a headache now.
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P=.1? Really? As someone whose undergrad had a concentration in stats, that scares me. We teach freshman year stats students that significance is .05 or less (for some fields even .01). I am in research and if someone even did a poster with .1, I'd be rolling my eyes. What kind of engineering do you do?
from my experience either Deutsche Bahn Wettervorhersage or something with terrorism.
Too many quotes, cannot tell who I am responding to anymore.
Semiconductor process engineering. Generally, we have fairly limited sample sets on our planned experiments. A lot of our data comes from massive "in line" data sets with a lot of confounding and unknown variables. So our data analysis is one of the two. A small sample set of 6-10, or a very large set with a lot of unknowns.
That said, if we run an experiment with several variables (2-7, generally), and one of them comes out around 0.1 or lower, it's an indication of a correlation. In that case, we would continue with more experiments, where we would focus our attention on that variable (or those, if there are more than one that fell into that category), and attempt to hold the remaining uncorrelated variables constant.
There's a lot of noise and a lot of "unintentional" differences.
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Now this one's getting foamy...
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Just pilfer the important office supplies (pens, Post-Its, highlighters, laptops if u can), sell them on EBay, and make life simple.
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So my office-mate is getting married next year and just bought a house in our pricey area. He decided it's time to stop living paycheck to paycheck, so he started taking a certain amount of cash out of the bank weekly, and when it's gone, it's gone.
He also started packing lunch more.
First week? He only spent half (of course his girl friend called him cheap, but she'll get over it I think)
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I had a unique experience today.
I work as a traveling delivery contractor for Home Depot. I travel all over the country filling specific roles when necessary, and so I get to meet people from all over the US. It's pretty awesome.
Today, the delivery to be made, was a lumber package for a property for one of the home depot employees. Nothing odd about this so far, just some guy buying wood for his new house. Awesome.
But then I find that it's actually the lumber package for ONLY the ground floor of a two story, 8 unit, multi family resident.
Then I get to the delivery site and realize that 8-plex number on is already built/leased, this is 8-plex number 2, and the foundation for the 3rd scheduled is for the spring, and the 4th/5th soon after.
Then I find out that there's two 6-plexes on the plans as well.
This son-nom-beech is 43, won't commit to tell me how many CURRENT units he already owns, but is currently in the process of adding 52 unites ((5 units x 8)+(2 units x 6)) to his portfolio by this time next year.
He works at the Home Depot. Annual wage MIGHT be 50k a year.
He told me he bought his first house/property 15 year ago at age 28, it was a Duplex. The light switch flipped when he realized the second unit was paying the mortgage and he was living for free.
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I had a unique experience today.
I work as a traveling delivery contractor for Home Depot. I travel all over the country filling specific roles when necessary, and so I get to meet people from all over the US. It's pretty awesome.
Today, I'm currently in Onalaska, Wisconsin. The delivery to be made, was a lumber package for a property for one of the home depot employees. Nothing odd about this so far, just some guy buying wood for his new house. Awesome.
But then I find that it's actually the lumber package for ONLY the ground floor of a two story, 8 unit, multi family resident.
Then I get to the delivery site and realize that 8-plex number on is already built/leased, this is 8-plex number 2, and the foundation for the 3rd scheduled is for the spring, and the 4th/5th soon after.
Then I find out that there's two 6-plexes on the plans as well.
This son-nom-beech is 43, won't commit to tell me how many CURRENT units he already owns, but is currently in the process of adding 52 unites ((5 units x 8)+(2 units x 6)) to his portfolio by this time next year.
He works at the Home Depot. Annual wage MIGHT be 50k a year.
He told me he bought his first house/property 15 year ago at age 28, it was a Duplex. The light switch flipped when he realized the second unit was paying the mortgage and he was living for free.
Why does he still work at Home Deopt? Does he get everything he need for his houses cheaper?
That said, after my first 52 units I would definitely have stopped working anyway lol.
If he goes on with this speed he has build a whole town when he is dead.
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I had a unique experience today.
I work as a traveling delivery contractor for Home Depot. I travel all over the country filling specific roles when necessary, and so I get to meet people from all over the US. It's pretty awesome.
Today, I'm currently in Onalaska, Wisconsin. The delivery to be made, was a lumber package for a property for one of the home depot employees. Nothing odd about this so far, just some guy buying wood for his new house. Awesome.
But then I find that it's actually the lumber package for ONLY the ground floor of a two story, 8 unit, multi family resident.
Then I get to the delivery site and realize that 8-plex number on is already built/leased, this is 8-plex number 2, and the foundation for the 3rd scheduled is for the spring, and the 4th/5th soon after.
Then I find out that there's two 6-plexes on the plans as well.
This son-nom-beech is 43, won't commit to tell me how many CURRENT units he already owns, but is currently in the process of adding 52 unites ((5 units x 8)+(2 units x 6)) to his portfolio by this time next year.
He works at the Home Depot. Annual wage MIGHT be 50k a year.
He told me he bought his first house/property 15 year ago at age 28, it was a Duplex. The light switch flipped when he realized the second unit was paying the mortgage and he was living for free.
Why does he still work at Home Deopt? Does he get everything he need for his houses cheaper?
That said, after my first 52 units I would definitely have stopped working anyway lol.
If he goes on with this speed he has build a whole town when he is dead.
I'm headed back to work tomorrow and will have the opportunity to answer this better. He has owned at least a few duplexes for over 10 years, but I don't know how many other properties he owns besides the 52 units he is currently building. He would only say, "yea, you know, a few"
He's a 50/50 partner in this particular property investment with some other guy (young at age 38).
During the delivery I met the general contractor for the buildings and he told met that each 8-plex costs about $600k to build. The land was $40k per 8-plex. Each unit in the 8-plex rents for $917/Unit.
Assuming he bought the land for each unit with cash, a 30 yr / $600k mortgage at 4.5% would cost him $3706/mo.
Income will be $917x8 @ $7336/mo - $3706 = $3630/unit/mo
5units at $3630 = $18150/mo divided by two for 50% share is $9075/mo
Not sure how much the future 6plex's will cost/earn, but undoubtedly they will be profitable.
On my way out the door, I looked him straight in the face, and asked him "Why are you still here, working at Home Depot? When will you walk away? Anyone with half a brain can see that these new rental units will earn you a 2-3 multiple per month of what you could possibly earn here, NOT including the earned equity."
He didn't answer as a customer interrupted. I aim to find out when I get back to the store!
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He probably does it for fun and to maintain a social life, or something like that. Sounds like a cool guy.
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I hope it's for fun. I'll be sad if he's stuck spending most of his earnings to keep pace with consumerism. I hope he's psychologically free and happy and just likes what he's doing.
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He probably does it for fun and to maintain a social life, or something like that. Sounds like a cool guy.
I hope it's for fun. I'll be sad if he's stuck spending most of his earnings to keep pace with consumerism. I hope he's psychologically free and happy and just likes what he's doing.
I'm not yet certain if he's got the capacity, either mentally or fiscally to retire. I get the picture that he probably doesn't have a clear path outlined.
When I brought up the 5% 401k matching offered by Home Depot while sitting around the front desk. I asked a couple of the people there if they contribute. The response, "Pssssh. Uh, no."
However, I brought it up with the property guru and he looked at me aghast when I told him about the others. "BUT IT'S FREE MONEY!" he said. Yes, I know man, but you can't change people. To which we agreed.
The topic came up about retirement. He couldn't possibly be earning as much as his passive investments. He agreed that no, he couldn't. I asked him, when are you going to quit? He said, you know I have two young sons, they play hockey, it's an expensive sport. I'm still young, and it gives me something to do during the day.
I laughed, and told him he doesn't get paid enough to do what he does, and should become a full time stay at home dad :)
I made a quip about the fallacy of working past the point that your passive investment income is larger than your current living expenses. It's a case of the CREEP / What-if-itis that keeps people working. It took my dad 4 years to FINALLY accept/realize that he didn't need to go to work anymore. He could stop. And so he retired overnight.
This man has an acute case of the creep, and what-if-itis. He doesn't have the formal knowledge of what his total investments are really capable of. He hasn't done the math. I'm only 43, he said. (Like he didn't think that was old enough to retire yet... WRONG!)
I told him I had a 7-8 year plan and he looked up suddenly and blanched. Wait, you're 28 right, that puts you at 35/36? Really, you'll be able to /plan to retire that soon?
I said, I sure as hell plan on it. Whether or not it happens is circumstantial, but it's all about the F-U money. Earning the right to be free for yourself, such that you determine the next step, not someone else.
He agreed with that. This guy is inherently Mustachian, but doesn't know his true capacity.
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He probably does it for fun and to maintain a social life, or something like that. Sounds like a cool guy.
I hope it's for fun. I'll be sad if he's stuck spending most of his earnings to keep pace with consumerism. I hope he's psychologically free and happy and just likes what he's doing.
I'm not yet certain if he's got the capacity, either mentally or fiscally to retire. I get the picture that he probably doesn't have a clear path outlined.
When I brought up the 5% 401k matching offered by Home Depot while sitting around the front desk. I asked a couple of the people there if they contribute. The response, "Pssssh. Uh, no."
However, I brought it up with the property guru and he looked at me aghast when I told him about the others. "BUT IT'S FREE MONEY!" he said. Yes, I know man, but you can't change people. To which we agreed.
The topic came up about retirement. He couldn't possibly be earning as much as his passive investments. He agreed that no, he couldn't. I asked him, when are you going to quit? He said, you know I have two young sons, they play hockey, it's an expensive sport. I'm still young, and it gives me something to do during the day.
I laughed, and told him he doesn't get paid enough to do what he does, and should become a full time stay at home dad :)
I made a quip about the fallacy of working past the point that your passive investment income is larger than your current living expenses. It's a case of the CREEP / What-if-itis that keeps people working. It took my dad 4 years to FINALLY accept/realize that he didn't need to go to work anymore. He could stop. And so he retired overnight.
This man has an acute case of the creep, and what-if-itis. He doesn't have the formal knowledge of what his total investments are really capable of. He hasn't done the math. I'm only 43, he said. (Like he didn't think that was old enough to retire yet... WRONG!)
I told him I had a 7-8 year plan and he looked up suddenly and blanched. Wait, you're 28 right, that puts you at 35/36? Really, you'll be able to /plan to retire that soon?
I said, I sure as hell plan on it. Whether or not it happens is circumstantial, but it's all about the F-U money. Earning the right to be free for yourself, such that you determine the next step, not someone else.
He agreed with that. This guy is inherently Mustachian, but doesn't know his true capacity.
I mean, this guy is doing well but it sounds like he has a very concentrated bet in a particular rental market. Maybe he recognizes the danger in that.
On the other hand, maybe he's just working at HD for fun. HD always seemed like it could be a pretty fun laid back job (minus holidays). Leave the guy alone :)
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I mean, this guy is doing well but it sounds like he has a very concentrated bet in a particular rental market. Maybe he recognizes the danger in that.
On the other hand, maybe he's just working at HD for fun. HD always seemed like it could be a pretty fun laid back job (minus holidays). Leave the guy alone :)
The rental units were a 6-7 year long plan in the making. They are within 10 minutes of a major manufacturing plant that has been busy for the past 20 years. There is a severe lack of housing in the area. It's a calculated risk, which he recognizes. If the market for the manufacturing plants dry up, he'll be left with some vacant rentals...
He's definitely a laid back dude, working a laid back position at HD. It's fun to meet a guy like him!
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Found out several of my coworkers max out their 401k's, all of whom are mid-30s or younger..
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Found out several of my coworkers max out their 401k's, all of whom are mid-30s or younger..
Whoo!
Have you mentioned MMM to them at all? Sounds like they'd be receptive.
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This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/)
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)
On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.
Running a quick Chi square test with an assumed 50/50 distribution, we get a two-tailed P=0.064, which is barely not enough to reject the null hypothesis that there are as many men as women on this forum (P>0.05). A bigger N actually may have pushed it over to prove that there are more women than men here.
It of course does not assume any selection bias, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the phrasing of a question of gender, since it's not an ambiguous question (as opposed to "are you for or against" type questions). I would not assume that most people on this forum are men.
.064 hints very, very strongly, more strongly than other stuff that has been acted upon before.
.064 is not statistically significant. All it hints is that we may be able to get significance if we increase the N large enough. However, for a survey over 300 is normally enough unless their is bias, which I don't know.
In the interest of stopping this discussion... here is the alexa data on MMM users. (http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/mrmoneymustache.com+)
That was interesting.
I'm no statistician (and my grad school stats class was almost 2 decades ago), but in my engineering job, if I get 0.1, we consider it a very strong suggestion of a correlation.
P=.1? Really? As someone whose undergrad had a concentration in stats, that scares me. We teach freshman year stats students that significance is .05 or less (for some fields even .01). I am in research and if someone even did a poster with .1, I'd be rolling my eyes. What kind of engineering do you do?
You wouldn't take this as a hint that you might be looking in the right direction? Really? "Guys, P was only .1, we have nothing here. Scrap it."
I wouldn't put it in a paper, but with a limited sample, it's a nice clue.
As I said ".064 is not statistically significant. All it hints is that we may be able to get significance if we increase the N large enough. However, for a survey over 300 is normally enough unless their is bias, which I don't know." Given that the sample size is large enough, unless there is data to suggest that one gender does online surveys more than the other, there is nothing more to be done. It is not like the sample size is ten or something.
I have a headache now.
Relevant. http://xkcd.com/1478/
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On my commute home yesterday I got to chatting with one of the flight attendants and the subject of work schedules came up. He said he was working six days in a row, one off, then six more in a row. I commented that it sounded pretty tiring and he said "It's what I bid for. I'm trying to pay off my 30 year mortgage in nine years."
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I don't have much to contribute to the other thread. Maybe the people I work with are not representative of usual American employees? I work at a federal research center. As you know we went 3, 4 years without a cost of living increase. At least on my floor (thinking about our shared kitchen) most people bring their home cooked leftovers for lunch, do not dress flashy (or dress more casual than I do (IT), I can think of only a couple expensive cars in our department. An older gentlemen bikes to and from work even though he lives 15, 20 miles away, and often shares produce from his garden. Gardening/homesteading seems like a popular occupation.
I went to a mid year retirement with some of them, and one of them who I think is the same age or a little younger than me, was disappointed she could not retire and get her health benefits before her earliest retirement age (56 or 57). So I think she is already ready to retire, financially speaking, but is going to wait so she can have continuity with her health insurance.
So basically I'm the slacker compared to a number of these people.
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Two from today:
CW1: "I just cancelled my Amazon Prime account. Figured I wasn't using $99 worth of two-day shipping in a year."
And after the topic of credit card rewards came up, CW2 told us that his wife is super into credit card/travel hacking and their recent trip to Vegas was completely paid for by points.
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CW1: "I just cancelled my Amazon Prime account. Figured I wasn't using $99 worth of two-day shipping in a year."
My wife and I make good use of our Prime. Between that and Costco, it fills 85% of our household needs. Everything from cat food to diapers, faucets for bathroom remodel (a necessity, not a luxury), etc.
My "Prime" hack is that my university I graduated from 10 years ago grandfathered email addresses for life, forwarded to any address of your choice. So I have a @edu email address, making my Prime a Student account, at 1/2 the membership fee.
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isnt Amazon more expensive then buying where you are?
At least it is 30%-50% more then in the supermarket here in germany.
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It really depends. For some things, like HDMI cables, Amazon offers reasonable prices whereas convenience stores and the big boxes are often extortionate. For other things, like food, Amazon is more expenses.
Bottom line is to shop around.
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It really depends. For some things, like HDMI cables, Amazon offers reasonable prices whereas convenience stores and the big boxes are often extortionate. For other things, like food, Amazon is more expenses.
Bottom line is to shop around.
lol ok, never buy cables in stores, its cheaper even with the 3€ post cost.
But I dont buy (non-eat)-things that often that the price would be justified. At least not things I would send. Never considered toilet paper something to be send ;) Or most of other "household needs". That also includes things for pets and babies, even if here would be one
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I just had this conversation last night with a friend. We were chatting about our previous travels. We met in Peru while we were both on the road (she's currently traveling now in Argentina after returning to South America 4 years later). She asked me when/where I would probably head to next.
This is how the following conversation reads:
Coworker: So you are deciding between playing it safe with the current job, or traveling to work abroad again?
Me: Honestly I see very little chance that I will live and work anywhere in a foreign country in the next 7-10 years. I'm on a 7-10 year plan to retirement. Believe it or not, our cost of living is so low (we're super damn frugal) that if our incomes meet the standardized average for where we live, and we save/invest the rest we'll end up with enough wealth to generate a passive income by that time. And, I work from home, honestly enjoy my job, have a awesome time with my friends where I live, and though and wistful of traveling allllll the time, I realize that there is greater potential for me in the short term if I buckle down and invest my time in earning money to support my future retirement well before the age of 40. So, that being said, I will put my massive traveling urges on a rather long hiatus, and keep myself happy with short trips while planning my MASSIVE trip for the rest of my life starting in 8-10 years. Ergo, we're planning our expedited path to financial independence so that we can retire early.
Coworker: (Throws me for a huge loop):That makes total sense. The travel lifestyle isn't one that sets you up for life so you need to make your priorities and sounds like you have it all under control.
Me: Well, thanks! I'm glad you can relate!
Coworker: Of course. I just bought a house last month, massive commitment. But feeling that same sort of 'need to start setting myself up' pinch
Me: So what are you up to now, you stopped working about 7 months ago yea? But you just bought a house last month($370k AUD), what are the terms on your mortgage.
Coworker: Right, so I don't have one. I came into some money last year, it's complicated. I haven't saved for this myself but thats not something I generally share.
Me: I can appreciate that, finances are a closely guarded thing for most people. I hope everyone in your family is okay.
Coworker: So my father passed away at the end of 2014. After battling cancer for 8 years. And I dont have a mother, so I received what I did because I have no parents. Which isn't an ideal situation but its life!
Me:Damn! That is terrible. I can relate. I send you hugs
Coworker: Thanks
Me:I'm so glad you invested your money. Real Estate is pretty low risk if you buy right.
Coworker: I've got a safety blanket left over. I got some serious finanical planning advice and got the whole speal about high/low risk etc. I felt I just dont understand shares/bonds etc enough to invest in that. And I can live in my property, I cant live in my shares if it all falls to crap! My biggest fear is fucking it up and blowing it. I mean, I havent even spent any yet - I am living off the interest and rents I am receiving. Though house had a tenant in it when I bought it.
Me:Thank god you have the fear of reason ingrained.
Me: Wait, did you say that you can afford your current lifestyle on the interest you are earning?
Coworker: Yeah, at the moment. I just couldnt think of anything worse than going through everything I did, and the result being anything else than setting myself up for life.
Me: Are you aware that you can essentially retire?
Coworker:Yeah, thats kind of what I have done
Me:That is the whole definition of Financial Independence! Here I am, telling you my secret plan to retire early, that none of my friends understand, And YOU have already done it.
Coworker: My situation is rather unique. So I understood where you were coming from
Me:You brilliant, beautiful, breath taking success!
Suffice it to say that my friend endured an extreme familial hardship and is now left with no parents at the age of 28. However in light of this, and in lieu of a father that clearly came from a frugal background and understood long term investing, my friend is the heir of a rather sizable sum of money that was nearly immediately invested in a property (and high interest yielding bank accounts) that return 5.9% in rents on the purchase price. She understands the value of money in it's true sense and realizes that it can buy freedom if properly handled. She is a new hero of mine.
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I just had this conversation last night with a friend. We were chatting about our previous travels. We met in Peru while we were both on the road (she's currently traveling now in Argentina after returning to South America 4 years later). She asked me when/where I would probably head to next.
This is how the following conversation reads:
Coworker: So you are deciding between playing it safe with the current job, or traveling to work abroad again?
Me: Honestly I see very little chance that I will live and work anywhere in a foreign country in the next 7-10 years. I'm on a 7-10 year plan to retirement. Believe it or not, our cost of living is so low (we're super damn frugal) that if our incomes meet the standardized average for where we live, and we save/invest the rest we'll end up with enough wealth to generate a passive income by that time. And, I work from home, honestly enjoy my job, have a awesome time with my friends where I live, and though and wistful of traveling allllll the time, I realize that there is greater potential for me in the short term if I buckle down and invest my time in earning money to support my future retirement well before the age of 40. So, that being said, I will put my massive traveling urges on a rather long hiatus, and keep myself happy with short trips while planning my MASSIVE trip for the rest of my life starting in 8-10 years. Ergo, we're planning our expedited path to financial independence so that we can retire early.
Coworker: (Throws me for a huge loop):That makes total sense. The travel lifestyle isn't one that sets you up for life so you need to make your priorities and sounds like you have it all under control.
Me: Well, thanks! I'm glad you can relate!
Coworker: Of course. I just bought a house last month, massive commitment. But feeling that same sort of 'need to start setting myself up' pinch
Me: So what are you up to now, you stopped working about 7 months ago yea? But you just bought a house last month($370k AUD), what are the terms on your mortgage.
Coworker: Right, so I don't have one. I came into some money last year, it's complicated. I haven't saved for this myself but thats not something I generally share.
Me: I can appreciate that, finances are a closely guarded thing for most people. I hope everyone in your family is okay.
Coworker: So my father passed away at the end of 2014. After battling cancer for 8 years. And I dont have a mother, so I received what I did because I have no parents. Which isn't an ideal situation but its life!
Me:Damn! That is terrible. I can relate. I send you hugs
Coworker: Thanks
Me:I'm so glad you invested your money. Real Estate is pretty low risk if you buy right.
Coworker: I've got a safety blanket left over. I got some serious finanical planning advice and got the whole speal about high/low risk etc. I felt I just dont understand shares/bonds etc enough to invest in that. And I can live in my property, I cant live in my shares if it all falls to crap! My biggest fear is fucking it up and blowing it. I mean, I havent even spent any yet - I am living off the interest and rents I am receiving. Though house had a tenant in it when I bought it.
Me:Thank god you have the fear of reason ingrained.
Me: Wait, did you say that you can afford your current lifestyle on the interest you are earning?
Coworker: Yeah, at the moment. I just couldnt think of anything worse than going through everything I did, and the result being anything else than setting myself up for life.
Me: Are you aware that you can essentially retire?
Coworker:Yeah, thats kind of what I have done
Me:That is the whole definition of Financial Independence! Here I am, telling you my secret plan to retire early, that none of my friends understand, And YOU have already done it.
Coworker: My situation is rather unique. So I understood where you were coming from
Me:You brilliant, beautiful, breath taking success!
Suffice it to say that my friend endured an extreme familial hardship and is now left with no parents at the age of 28. However in light of this, and in lieu of a father that clearly came from a frugal background and understood long term investing, my friend is the heir of a rather sizable sum of money that was nearly immediately invested in a property (and high interest yielding bank accounts) that return 5.9% in rents on the purchase price. She understands the value of money in it's true sense and realizes that it can buy freedom if properly handled. She is a new hero of mine.
That is amazing. I'm glad you found somebody who not only understands the FIRE lifestyle, but is living it already!
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CW1: "I just cancelled my Amazon Prime account. Figured I wasn't using $99 worth of two-day shipping in a year."
My wife and I make good use of our Prime. Between that and Costco, it fills 85% of our household needs. Everything from cat food to diapers, faucets for bathroom remodel (a necessity, not a luxury), etc.
My "Prime" hack is that my university I graduated from 10 years ago grandfathered email addresses for life, forwarded to any address of your choice. So I have a @edu email address, making my Prime a Student account, at 1/2 the membership fee.
I'm pretty sure you're allowed to buy those things on amazon without prime.. I just use some foresight and get $35 worth of stuff and wait 5 days. Of course for most people this is an insane sacrifice they couldn't imagine. "waiting for something??! no way. Need it nauww!"
edit: I'm aware there are diaper savings with prime. I did the math and it would about pay for the subscription..
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Anyone who pays for netflix (in lieu of cable for example) should just get prime instead. Prime comes out to 8.25/month and Netflix is 8.99/month. In addition to the shipping you get:
- movies and TV (similar selection to netflix)
- music (admittedly I don't use this)
- free book borrow/month if you have a kindle
And probably other stuff I'm not using. Amex has been offering a free year of prime and 200 reward for new cards (after 3 months and spending 1k I believe, I did it before xmas which helped me hit the target between travel & gifts), just get it for free!
I'm also really enjoying the $1 credit Amazon has begun offering for no rush shipping, as I don't need everything order in 2 days (just sometimes! :-)) and have got several free books with my promo credits the last few months.
Now I actually came on her to post about my CW (not sales pitches for prime), we frequently have anti-anti-mustachian conversations. Today she tells me her cousin has offered to arrange a hair stylist/makeup for anyone attending her wedding that wants one for $100 each! This is not just for people in the wedding party, my CW isn't a bridesmaid or anything like that, just attending.
She tells me this saying it's a ridiculous amount of money to pay for someone to do her hair and instead she is going to come to my house before the wedding and have me do it for her for free (I offered).
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A former coworker (from my last job) is going on "sabbatical" (retiring). She's around 50, and that's a win in my book! She says she will probably work part time for a while after she's not burnt out anymore. Of all the coworkers I ever had, she was the most likely to pull this off. It's very different knowing retiring early is possible as compared with knowing someone who has actually done it!
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Anyone who pays for netflix (in lieu of cable for example) should just get prime instead. Prime comes out to 8.25/month and Netflix is 8.99/month. In addition to the shipping you get:
- movies and TV (similar selection to netflix)
- music (admittedly I don't use this)
- free book borrow/month if you have a kindle
And probably other stuff I'm not using. Amex has been offering a free year of prime and 200 reward for new cards (after 3 months and spending 1k I believe, I did it before xmas which helped me hit the target between travel & gifts), just get it for free!
I'm also really enjoying the $1 credit Amazon has begun offering for no rush shipping, as I don't need everything order in 2 days (just sometimes! :-)) and have got several free books with my promo credits the last few months.
Now I actually came on her to post about my CW (not sales pitches for prime), we frequently have anti-anti-mustachian conversations. Today she tells me her cousin has offered to arrange a hair stylist/makeup for anyone attending her wedding that wants one for $100 each! This is not just for people in the wedding party, my CW isn't a bridesmaid or anything like that, just attending.
She tells me this saying it's a ridiculous amount of money to pay for someone to do her hair and instead she is going to come to my house before the wedding and have me do it for her for free (I offered).
Is the selection really similar to netflix? If true, I'd seriously consider your advice. I'm guessing they don't have House of Cards though...
I'm having a hard time even determining... like I search for various TV shows and see maybe the DVD of season 1 -- does that mean it's just that season?
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Is the selection really similar to netflix? If true, I'd seriously consider your advice. I'm guessing they don't have House of Cards though...
Similar enough that both Amazon and Netflix are busy developing their own exclusives. They probably are well aware of people like me with both at the moment but thinking about dropping one.
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We have been binge watching documentaries from the library lately with our kids. We have so many out right now that I'm not sure we will have enough evenings to watch them all!
Recently, while away for a weekend, I watched a ton of PBS shows on cable at the free place we were staying at. When one came on that I liked, I jumped on my laptop and ordered it from the library. Almost all the shows were available.
So glad we cut our cable last year!
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There's a lot of overlap of prime and Netflix but the library isn't exactly the same, as dragoncar said the both have their own exclusives for example.
Currently I pay for prime and my bf pays for Netflix and we share. Netflix has more tv and movie content but prime is close (and seems to be improving) and you also get the other benefits I mentioned.
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Wow. Congrats to your coworker bigalsmith. It's so unfortunate in regards to how she got the money, but at least she is using it so wisely. I wish her and you all the best. Thanks for sharing!
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Wow. Congrats to your coworker bigalsmith. It's so unfortunate in regards to how she got the money, but at least she is using it so wisely. I wish her and you all the best. Thanks for sharing!
She's backpacking around Argentina for the moment. Traveling (when you're willing) can be super cheap (hostels, busses, etc). She spends less while on the road then she would at home. She's using this time to figure it all out. I'm jealous, but I wouldn't trade my dad for it, not a chance.
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At my current gig, this was perhaps a month ago.
Boss: Let's all go out to lunch today to celebrate the completion of Project X!
Coworker A: YEAH! I know just the place. Sushi.
Coworker B: Uhh... boss, you're paying, right?
Boss: Well, not exactly.
Coworker A: Aw, who cares? We get to go out and have fun!
Coworker B: Pass. Let me know if you want to actually take us out as a real reward.
So cool - I rarely hear people other than me ask the tough questions in these situations. Then the bill comes and it's too late.
Jeez. Speaking as a boss, if we go out to celebrate, the office pays. That boss is cheap, not frugal! A few sushi dinners a year is a very, very affordable way to keep my employees happy.
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Yesterday one of my coworkers asked me what to do with the $90k he has sitting in savings. Besides suggesting he invest it, I asked what the rest of his portfolio looked like. He said he and his wife both have IRAs, but he didn't know what was in them. He hasn't invested in the TSP, and has no other investment accounts (though he has a rental property). I discussed the basics with him, pointed him towards JlCollins' stock series, talked about expense ratios, and suggested he find out first and foremost where his money actually is. Anecdotally I told him about my eureka moment getting into Vanguard and the wonders of indexing and he said he'd think about it. He came to me this morning part shocked and part relieved that he got all the info from his financial institution and that he was not happy with them once he figured out what his IRAs were invested in. He didn't give me too many details, but he said when he brought up moving to Vanguard the financial specialist got defensive and said Vanguard didn't have good customer service and tried to get him to stay. I'm not saying he's a full convert, but I'm overjoyed that he's asking the right questions and getting a handle on things.
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The airman next to me came in the other day saying that he didn't like his brokerage, so he had switched to Vanguard. And something about how he wasn't sure about what to do with money and IRAs. I pointed out that if he even knows what an IRA is, and that fees exist, he is doing FAR better than most of the other guys in the office (who complain they can't pay rent because they spent their BAH on sports cars and trucks).... this was followed by discussions of how dumb most people our age are.
This guy will be just fine :)
I kinda wonder if he's on here...
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At my current gig, this was perhaps a month ago.
Boss: Let's all go out to lunch today to celebrate the completion of Project X!
Coworker A: YEAH! I know just the place. Sushi.
Coworker B: Uhh... boss, you're paying, right?
Boss: Well, not exactly.
Coworker A: Aw, who cares? We get to go out and have fun!
Coworker B: Pass. Let me know if you want to actually take us out as a real reward.
So cool - I rarely hear people other than me ask the tough questions in these situations. Then the bill comes and it's too late.
I don't think I'm brave enough (or FI enough) to say that. I default to, "no thanks, that place is over my lunch limit."
My office often pokes fun at me for my "lunch limit" of $4 per lunch. I get really excited when I find a lunch for $4 or less (e.g. coupons, gift cards, adding meals to co-workers' lunches as a side, Costco, splitting pizzas). I usually bring lunch, but my going-out budget is $4 unless it's a retirement luncheon.
This has the side effect of making people really pleased if I agree to normal-price lunch with them.
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He didn't give me too many details, but he said when he brought up moving to Vanguard the financial specialist got defensive and said Vanguard didn't have good customer service and tried to get him to stay.
I LOVE it when someone who earns his money doing things for me says his collegues have a bad service. That means he cant say other things about them like "they are worse then me" ;)
Unfortunately I dont have many people working for me. Mustachian problem, I think. :D
As someone with an high IQ, good common sense and necessary google-fu I always had the experience that a "good service" is easily replaceable by a few hours or days of your time once, with benefits for lifetime and a lot of better options afterward.
Never forget that all financial advisers always want your best: your money!
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He didn't give me too many details, but he said when he brought up moving to Vanguard the financial specialist got defensive and said Vanguard didn't have good customer service and tried to get him to stay.
I LOVE it when someone who earns his money doing things for me says his collegues have a bad service. That means he cant say other things about them like "they are worse then me" ;)
Unfortunately I dont have many people working for me. Mustachian problem, I think. :D
As someone with an high IQ, good common sense and necessary google-fu I always had the experience that a "good service" is easily replaceable by a few hours or days of your time once, with benefits for lifetime and a lot of better options afterward.
Never forget that all financial advisers always want your best: your money!
I recently "fired" my bank advisor to switch to an unmanaged fund at the same bank. The look on his face when he realized what the conversion meant ... I felt pretty bad, I can't lie. We pretty much did the classic, "uh, I'll call you," when it's clear a second date is not on the horizon. Sorry buddy. I'm not gonna call.
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He didn't give me too many details, but he said when he brought up moving to Vanguard the financial specialist got defensive and said Vanguard didn't have good customer service and tried to get him to stay.
I LOVE it when someone who earns his money doing things for me says his collegues have a bad service. That means he cant say other things about them like "they are worse then me" ;)
Unfortunately I dont have many people working for me. Mustachian problem, I think. :D
As someone with an high IQ, good common sense and necessary google-fu I always had the experience that a "good service" is easily replaceable by a few hours or days of your time once, with benefits for lifetime and a lot of better options afterward.
Never forget that all financial advisers always want your best: your money!
I recently "fired" my bank advisor to switch to an unmanaged fund at the same bank. The look on his face when he realized what the conversion meant ... I felt pretty bad, I can't lie. We pretty much did the classic, "uh, I'll call you," when it's clear a second date is not on the horizon. Sorry buddy. I'm not gonna call.
With my friend now stepping into uncharted territory, I was able to put some stress aside by informing him that he doesn't even need to fire the previous financial institution himself - the new folks can do that for him. No hard conversations about loyalty or explaining his actions, just sign a few forms.
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He didn't give me too many details, but he said when he brought up moving to Vanguard the financial specialist got defensive and said Vanguard didn't have good customer service and tried to get him to stay.
I LOVE it when someone who earns his money doing things for me says his collegues have a bad service. That means he cant say other things about them like "they are worse then me" ;)
Unfortunately I dont have many people working for me. Mustachian problem, I think. :D
As someone with an high IQ, good common sense and necessary google-fu I always had the experience that a "good service" is easily replaceable by a few hours or days of your time once, with benefits for lifetime and a lot of better options afterward.
Never forget that all financial advisers always want your best: your money!
I recently "fired" my bank advisor to switch to an unmanaged fund at the same bank. The look on his face when he realized what the conversion meant ... I felt pretty bad, I can't lie. We pretty much did the classic, "uh, I'll call you," when it's clear a second date is not on the horizon. Sorry buddy. I'm not gonna call.
With my friend now stepping into uncharted territory, I was able to put some stress aside by informing him that he doesn't even need to fire the previous financial institution himself - the new folks can do that for him. No hard conversations about loyalty or explaining his actions, just sign a few forms.
So rude
http://youtu.be/nb0s1AePP2g
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My co-worker let it slip that her house will be paid off next month. It is freaking awesome because she is a single mom and raised her two kids into happy and independent adults. She has worked really hard and been really frugal. We also ate lunch, made by a coworker, for $1.87 per person
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Not at work, but at home (where I'm living until pre-wife moves here when she gets a job)
Now, before I get into it, I'll explain that my dad has been pretty good with his investments and pretty good with his choices. I'd describe him as 70% boglehead, 20% mustachian, and 10% "I'm smarter than most people, I'm going to take some chances" (and he's done actually better than S&P). He likes nice things, luxury cars, too many cars, boats, hi-fi stereos, etc., but always bought used, always shopped at TJ Maxx and Nordstrom Rack. He will be buying a vacation house as soon as the right one is available.
My dads company was just bought out, and he believes he will be let go. After a few initial days of "freaking out" and talking to people at work and people who had coincidentally enough been let go by this same company after being acquired, he sat down and put pencil to paper for probably the first time in his life to figure out exactly how much he has. Long story short, within 2 months he could pay off the house, buy his vacation house, and retire at 61. He's going to keep working because he doesn't mind the work, and chances of a severance package are pretty high. Add into it that nobody really expects him to and everyone thinks he is only in low to mid 50's, and he's going to keep going for another up to 4 years, but we're all hoping they come in with a severance package in about a year.
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Man I love this thread. Great stories.
The closest I've come to a mustachian encounter at work was to do with weight-loss rather than money, but the sentiment applies:
Me: Wow Bob, you look great! How have you lost so much weight?
Bob: Doing the things no one likes to do: eating less and exercising more.
Me: Awesome!
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My coworker told me about he and his wife's Hawaii trip a few years ago at a resort. They used a combo of airline miles/cc points so they did it pretty frugally. He ordered 2 piña coladas at the bar, shocked to find out that they were $35-40 each. After that, he went to Wal-Mart to buy a cheap blender/rum/piña colada mix to use the rest of the week and all for less than the cost of the two original drinks.
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My coworker told me about he and his wife's Hawaii trip a few years ago at a resort. They used a combo of airline miles/cc points so they did it pretty frugally. He ordered 2 piña coladas at the bar, shocked to find out that they were $35-40 each. After that, he went to Wal-Mart to buy a cheap blender/rum/piña colada mix to use the rest of the week and all for less than the cost of the two original drinks.
$35-$40 each?! That is completely insane!
Great idea on the blender etc, though. After seeing the prices of the resort drinks I'd be doing that too.
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An old coworker relayed this quote about her boss commenting on performance reviews. Grading scale was meets/exceeds expectations:
Boss walks out of her office one day and says, "Meets, meet, meets. I look around and all I see are meets. No exceeds." Coworker replies, "Meets leave at 5."
I've had a couple conversations with this CW about overworking - she used to, decided consciously to stop, because what was it getting her? (Answer: a direct report with almost no experience making a higher salary than she did.) I've been thinking about this a lot lately, because for the first time in my life I received a "meets" after a very relaxing year where I deliberately did not go above and beyond. The perfectionist in me is disappointed, but all the other personality types hiding in there are satisfied.
Eh, somebody being a "direct report" doesn't correlate to a lesser salary as much as you think, nor should it. Being someones manager doesn't automatically entitle you to a higher salary. There's a growing number of extremely talented people with specialized skill sets that are incredibly valuable to a company, and their time is simply better spent in a non-management role.
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One of my co-workers was telling me that he was thinking about buying a new TV with the bonuses we got, but that he decided he would rather save the money. The same co-worker also paid off all of his student loans with a combination of working part-time all through college and the first year's salary. I think he's going to do well.
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This sucks when companies fail to align salaries to market...
In my job it happens in reverse. The old timers are on much higher wages than those of us hired in the last few years.
My co-worker and I do identical roles (same job description etc) and while she has more experience than me, it bugs me that she's on $160K and I am on $120k for fulfilling the same role description (she's on 35% more than me... that a big difference!) I have also been in this particular role longer (she was a transfer from another part of the company) and am generally considered to the "go to" person, or the face of our team to our (internal) customers, not her. In the current market I'm being paid realistically and she's excessively overpaid so it's not like I can do anything about it by leaving but it still feels uncomfortable/frustrating to know I earn 35% less for the same work.
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This sucks when companies fail to align salaries to market...
In my job it happens in reverse. The old timers are on much higher wages than those of us hired in the last few years.
My co-worker and I do identical roles (same job description etc) and while she has more experience than me, it bugs me that she's on $160K and I am on $120k for fulfilling the same role description (she's on 35% 33.3% more than me... that a big difference!) I have also been in this particular role longer (she was a transfer from another part of the company) and am generally considered to the "go to" person, or the face of our team to our (internal) customers, not her. In the current market I'm being paid realistically and she's excessively overpaid so it's not like I can do anything about it by leaving but it still feels uncomfortable/frustrating to know I earn 35% 25% less for the same work.
160/120 = 4/3 = 1.333333333333333...
(160-120)/160=0.25
Mathematical quibbles aside, that's odd. Paying such a premium suggests desperation in the company at the time of hiring. Is there a general labor shortage that could have been especially acute right when they needed someone (and found her)?
We don't normally have these issues in the fed, since pay grade stems directly from job description and the only variables are location and longevity, but I still understand the frustration. I do occasionally see people in higher grades who don't do anything requiring special skills or dedication, on top of a nice military retirement, totalling 150k or more, and of course it's irksome... I just do my best to focus on the fact that I'm doing more with ~80k than most of the six-figure types.
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I told a few of my coworkers about Ting and how I pay ~$30/mo for my phone service (compared to their $100+). After looking at the rate chart, one of them took my referral code. The other is looking at craigslist for a used bike. And I've been asked to share my frugal knowledge & resources. :D
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Yes she was hired pre gfc when wages in this industry were at an time high. And our company gives people cost of living raises (usually around 3 percent) every year as long as a certain score is achieved in one's annual review. So she started high and took raise on the already inflated amount each year. No one stopped to consider that someone earning 33% more than market may not need another cost of living raise. (My salary would be market rate for the role). She's a good worker but it does seem weird to me.
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Oh man I feel like crap now... thanks Melody. Not that I'm complaining too much but why do I seem to earn so much less than everyone else in my profession?
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These numbers include super and indicative bonus. The bonuses are written into our contract so there isn't a lot of discretion with paying them and they fit a range linked to salary. The numbers stated include a midpoint bonus. Of the three I have received two have been more and one slightly less.
I'd say the following contribute to my high salary at least compared to my age:
- high paying industry
- highly qualified (CPA)
- Luck (Getting in with a company that has a reputation as a good payer - although not the best in the industry)
- being in Perth (Perth salaries are higher... check the Hays salary guide, I was pretty surprised!)
- aggressively managing career but not by chasing the money but chasing opportunities to grow... As a uni student I worked for $12 an hour while my friends made half as much again in retail/hospitality in order to get experience. When I was ready for my next move I took this job with good opportunities and a decent salary rather than higher paid ones which would have pigeonholed me. I am currently looking for my next side-step into a better paying line of work - I went tax > management accounting and now hoping to go to analyst. (Pay in these fields goes up in this order, as does competition for entry level roles. I'd never have gotten the management accounting entry level stuff without the tax, just as I doubt anyone would have considered me for an entry level analyst role 3 years ago).
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I'm visiting my father in CA this weekend. I noticed a large portion of his front lawn looked uniformly dead. He said "round up." He's getting ready to dig up part of his yard and landscape it to reduce the amount of grass he needs to water. Aside from the water shortage, he said paying $100 to keep his grass green just wasn't worth it anymore.
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I told a few of my coworkers about Ting and how I pay ~$30/mo for my phone service (compared to their $100+). After looking at the rate chart, one of them took my referral code. The other is looking at craigslist for a used bike. And I've been asked to share my frugal knowledge & resources. :D
This is awesome, @tofuchampion! Makes for interesting lunch room conversation!
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I'm visiting my father in CA this weekend. I noticed a large portion of his front lawn looked uniformly dead. He said "round up." He's getting ready to dig up part of his yard and landscape it to reduce the amount of grass he needs to water. Aside from the water shortage, he said paying $100 to keep his grass green just wasn't worth it anymore.
I haven't watered my lawn since perhaps november and it's still green (and its not like we've have regular rain since then either). I think I'll be able to get away with once every week or every other week in the summer, but I guess we'll see.
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I told a few of my coworkers about Ting and how I pay ~$30/mo for my phone service (compared to their $100+). After looking at the rate chart, one of them took my referral code. The other is looking at craigslist for a used bike. And I've been asked to share my frugal knowledge & resources. :D
This is awesome, @tofuchampion! Makes for interesting lunch room conversation!
Thanks!
I found out the other night that another coworker is starting to do credit card churning to earn money to pay for her wedding.
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I have a co-worker with a net worth in the multi-millions that rides his bike to work in the summer and drives a beat-up 90s model civic in the winters. Everybody talks about him like he's crazy for spending a couple thousand dollars on a bicycle (which he rides probably close to 200 miles per week), but lives in a small house and drives an old car.
He is clearly FI and aware of it, but he comes in just so he can irritate our boss as much as possible. This guy is secretly my hero.
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I have a co-worker with a net worth in the multi-millions that rides his bike to work in the summer and drives a beat-up 90s model civic in the winters. Everybody talks about him like he's crazy for spending a couple thousand dollars on a bicycle (which he rides probably close to 200 miles per week), but lives in a small house and drives an old car.
He is clearly FI and aware of it, but he comes in just so he can irritate our boss as much as possible. This guy is secretly my hero.
Well, sounds perfectly logical to me: If you use something a lot, get high quality (and pay it), if you dont need it that much, keep your money tight. Why shoudl he pay a few thousands on a car he seldom uses and then buy a cheapo bike?
He comes in just to irritate the boss? And gets paid for it? Now THAT is what I would call badassity :P
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I have a co-worker with a net worth in the multi-millions that rides his bike to work in the summer and drives a beat-up 90s model civic in the winters. Everybody talks about him like he's crazy for spending a couple thousand dollars on a bicycle (which he rides probably close to 200 miles per week), but lives in a small house and drives an old car.
He is clearly FI and aware of it, but he comes in just so he can irritate our boss as much as possible. This guy is secretly my hero.
Well, sounds perfectly logical to me: If you use something a lot, get high quality (and pay it), if you dont need it that much, keep your money tight. Why shoudl he pay a few thousands on a car he seldom uses and then buy a cheapo bike?
He comes in just to irritate the boss? And gets paid for it? Now THAT is what I would call badassity :P
Please share my stories about this guy.
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While I was eating lunch today in the small cafeteria at work, another employee was extolling the virtues of biking to work. He mentioned never regretting riding his bike to work even when it was cold out, how efficient the exercise was, and he even spoke of the cost savings. I almost asked if he was familiar with the MMM website.
The first rule of MMM is we don't talk about MMM ;)
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Thanks!
I found out the other night that another coworker is starting to do credit card churning to earn money to pay for her wedding.
[/quote]
Lets hope she doesn't f**k it up like the vast majority of consumers do. Ending up with high interest debt just to get some cashback.
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Lets hope she doesn't f**k it up like the vast majority of consumers do. Ending up with high interest debt just to get some cashback.
She already uses a rewards card for most things, and never carries a balance, so I think she'll be okay. She's looking into sign-up bonuses now.
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... he comes in just so he can irritate our boss as much as possible. This guy is secretly my hero.
Nice...
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At my first company, the CEO had a little gathering out in the parking lot as he drove his car, some vanilla Japanese small sedan model I don't recall, around the lot to hit 200k on the odometer. Also, just about everyone in the R&D department brought their lunches in to work, when there was some remodeling of the building they deliberately made a nice lunch room to encourage that. We had a lot of our most productive discussions there.
My father-in-law, German, was puzzled by why our CEO would drive such an old car, he didn't think it was right for a CEO to drive that, but he had strong views on what was proper for various economic brackets. . . :)
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Today at happy hour after work:
CW1 and CW2 are talking about CW1's friend, who went to Coachella.
CW1: My friend snuck into a Coachella party. Well she didn't really sneak in, she paid half for a wristband and split it with a friend. It was like $250 and she didn't even get to go in until 9pm. She was just sitting outside the venue all day. She posted on her facebook like "oh I got to see [band]."
CW2: I saw [band] in LA for $30. Coachella is such a waste of money. With the livestream there's no reason to actually go, except to say you were there.
CW1: Yeah, with transportation and the campsite and whatever stuff you buy there it's like $1000. I could just take a picture of myself with a random background and be like "I'm at Coachella, this is awesome" and no one would know the difference.
CW2: You know how I saved a lot of money? By not going to Coachella.
CW1: No-chella! [They bump fists]
And then, when I'm talking to another coworker.
Me: Yeah, I have to fly to Vegas and back every week [for a temporary work assignment].
CW3: So do you party a lot?
Me: No, I don't know anyone there. It would be weird going out alone and besides I don't want to spend a lot of money.
CW3: I know what you mean, I hate spending money.
Me: Me too!
CW3: I'm going on vacation with my friends, we booked a rental car and it was supposed to be $150. But my friend did the booking and it turned out to be $225. I told her to call them back, I wasn't going to pay that, just thinking about it made me feel sick to my stomach. So she did and we got the car for $150.
Me: Yeah, I try to save as much money as possible.
CW3: Right, it's like how am i going to retire early if I spend all my money?
Me: That's my plan too! To save money and retire early.
CW3: We should have a support group.
Me: [tells her about MMM. Hopefully she'll check it out!]
My faith in humanity is officially restored, at least for the moment.
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CW1: No-chella! [They bump fists]
Pure awesomeness!
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This wasn't overheard at work. I'm actually super excited to share this overhead gem, hah!
Old friend is buying a home with her now fiancé. She had been assigned to a new location for her job and needed to move a few states away. Her closing apparently got pushed further than expected but her new job location had already started. She just lived out of a tent for almost two weeks while she was in-between her old place and her new home instead of staying at a hotel. (Note: she no longer lives near family/friends, otherwise people would gladly let her crash at their place.)
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CW1: (who buys lunch every day): We're putting in an order at local place. Do you want something?
CW2: Thanks for asking, but I try to only eat out once a week, and I'm going out tomorrow. Maybe next time.
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I went to a dinner last night to celebrate the end of a project. There were six of us there, all freelancers, and we went to the boss's house and she made is pizza from scratch.
After we ate, conversation turned to finances as one of us had just quit a good job to take some time off to travel and then start her own company, as her (now former) job was so bad it made her ill from stress.
CW1: ...so I guess I'm pretty excited to be starting all this new stuff! Though I'll miss earning so much at [company].
CW2: How are you going to manage? I mean, four months in Asia is a long time with no income.
CW1: I have savings. I reckon I'm good for a year.
CW2: A YEAR? I'd be on the street in a month!
CW3: A month? Seriously? But you're 35!
CW2: I just don't earn enough to save any of it. No one does these days.
CW3: I don't earn a lot, I guess, but I still manage to save some. After all, you never know when something might happen, and I love my work but I do want to retire someday!
CW4: Me too. I mean, I don't want to sit around doing nothing but your body does start to go downhill after 60. There's no way I could work like this forever.
CW1: I know. I'm kid of worried about spending all my savings right now and not having anything for my pension, but I'm so burnt out it's a serious sanity break, and I'm sure I'll save it back up again in time.
CW2: A pension?! Who has a pension at our age?!
(Four hands go up - CWs 3,4,5 and me.)
CW1: I did but I won't any more.
I was shocked! When this conversation started I assumed it would be all about how it's impossible to save in today's economic climate and in our low-paid industry, but only one person out of six admitted to having no savings whatsoever. And I think even he doesn't have any serious debt.
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I was traveling for work a few months ago and cell phones came up as they always do on travel since I don't have data on my phone with Republic Wireless. I don't even remember the conversation, but a coworker from that trip stopped me today and thanked me for saving him $150 a month since he switched to Republic Wireless. Woohoo!!
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My warehouse manager picked up McDonald's for lunch. He looked sheepishly at me and said, "This is the first time I've paid for lunch in a few years." Normally he grills burgers and warms them up in the microwave, or one of the reps for a freight company will take him out for lunch.
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I think this counts...
I work in a law office with three attorneys (me and two others) and two paralegals.
Come lunch time, one paralegal heads home to nurse the baby (yes, extra driving, but she is very close & loves the extra mommy time)
The other paralegal and I enjoy our packed lunches in the break room (along with the company-supplied soda, coffee, and other snacks)
We share office space with other attorneys. Surprisingly for the career, the attorneys all tend to "eat in" sometimes. But, never as often as my paralegal and I do.
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My whole team had a whinge session about multi level marketing together :-) a great bonding session and I was in a pretty good mood for the rest of the day.
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Not work, but anti-antimustachian nonetheless.
I just spent the weekend with my great aunt, who lost her husband back in December. One of the first things she asked me about when I got there was my job, more specifically my what and how I invest. She was pleased to hear that I'm contributing to my 401k, getting a good match, and opened up another retirement account (my Roth IRA). She said she never thought she could count on her pension so she and her husband always put in 'as much as they could' into whatever retirement accounts they were able to. She kept telling me to always always always contribute to retirement, especially while I'm so young! Yes, young people should have fun, but stop going to the movies, stop eating out and getting drinks before you stop contributing to retirement. Good advice all around :)
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Consultant employee purchased brand new F150 crewcab 4x4. Commutes to work with it 5x weekly and tows camper 2x / month in summer.
I camp at a $8 campsite with my $300 mountaineering tent. Best part is I don't have to empty the waste tank on an RV.
Helped to inspire another guy to fix his own truck. $550 quote from mechanic to change alternator. I watched a YouTube video on how to do it, and told him I would do it for $250 and a case of beer. He looked it up himself and then did it that weekend. Cost him $120 in parts.
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I’ve got some young coworkers who are just clueless about basic math and life skills. I just bite my tongue. Recently one of the young women has been making a real effort to take control of her life. Since she is asking questions I am overjoyed to help.
She figured out that rice really multiplies when you cook it. I was so proud of her for cooking at home and trying something new.
She is a smart phone addict. I showed her my budget app. She immediately downloaded it and had me walk her through setting up a couple “envelopes” Will it stick? I don’t know. But it might… It’s at least in a format she is more likely to use and understand.
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I just helped a co-worker who was utterly clueless about what was going on with his old 401k roll it over to a Vanguard IRA. He had no idea how much money was in it or anything. Turned out to be over 60k!
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I mentioned wanting to be done working within 15 years to a co-worker yesterday and he said "yeah, there are a lot of plans that tell you it's possible, but nobody really tells you HOW."
I quickly pointed him in the direction of MMM. Hopefully it sticks.
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One of my co-workers, nice guy, good project manager, told me he recently found out about MMM. Good for him. He's an MBA student. I think he'll find out that the MBA education will teach him how to extract dollas from suckas, and MMM will teach him how not be be that sucka!
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My salesmen was lamenting the fate of one of his customers, essentially that customer started a dollar shop that did well and expanded to have 15 shops at her height, but is now done to one store that is barely making enough and is trying to stay afloat. He commented that he wished she had invested her money back when she was making a fortunate at her stores, but suspects that she spent it. He shook his head and said, "Thankfully I invest most of my income," that made me smile.
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I have to say, I think I am seeing a mustachian-like shift in my co-workers that I hang out with at work. They recently went from buying lunch every day to 1-2 times a week. One of my coworkers changed his phone plan to Cricket and downsized his apartment. They all used to buy iced coffee every day at work and now only once a week or so. It makes it a lot easier for me to resist temptation myself.
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I camp at a $8 campsite with my $300 mountaineering tent. Best part is I don't have to empty the waste tank on an RV.
Helped to inspire another guy to fix his own truck. $550 quote from mechanic to change alternator. I watched a YouTube video on how to do it, and told him I would do it for $250 and a case of beer. He looked it up himself and then did it that weekend. Cost him $120 in parts.
I'm starting to get into camping, and want to do it more often. Love that your coworker did it himself, not only did he save himself over $400, but he probably feels way more satisfaction from it. I didn't like my car stereo (I listen almost exclusively to podcasts and audiobooks on my ipod), so bought a stereo and installed it myself (office manager helped a little) and had a huge smile on my face for over a week. My parents are the type that will hire out for everything, and my dad kept telling me to get someone to install it ( a friend offered to do it for a bottle of wine), but just the pride of doing it myself made it worthwhile and helps me enjoy it more. It took more time than it likely should, but it was absolutely worth doing.
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Some of my-coworkers have shifted to Cricket-type cell phone plans or to T-Mobile family plans to save money. Also many have cut the cable/satellite cord and moved to FiOS internet-only plan and streaming services.
Then others have gone the other way, living high on the hog.
Win some, lose some, law of averages.
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I camp at a $8 campsite with my $300 mountaineering tent. Best part is I don't have to empty the waste tank on an RV.
Helped to inspire another guy to fix his own truck. $550 quote from mechanic to change alternator. I watched a YouTube video on how to do it, and told him I would do it for $250 and a case of beer. He looked it up himself and then did it that weekend. Cost him $120 in parts.
I'm starting to get into camping, and want to do it more often. Love that your coworker did it himself, not only did he save himself over $400, but he probably feels way more satisfaction from it. I didn't like my car stereo (I listen almost exclusively to podcasts and audiobooks on my ipod), so bought a stereo and installed it myself (office manager helped a little) and had a huge smile on my face for over a week. My parents are the type that will hire out for everything, and my dad kept telling me to get someone to install it ( a friend offered to do it for a bottle of wine), but just the pride of doing it myself made it worthwhile and helps me enjoy it more. It took more time than it likely should, but it was absolutely worth doing.
Usually in a situation like that, its 2 bottles of wine. 1 for each of us and as long as the task is done before the wine runs out, all is good. Except with beer.
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Proud of myself on this one and since it happened at work a few weeks ago:
Travelling on our lovely Air Canada (which I truly enjoy over West Jet) with 2 work colleagues and our flight was unable to leave as one of the first aid oxygen was not working properly...so they announced they needed 24 people to get off the plane, of which 10 could fly out the same night and get $400 or leave the following day on any flight and get $800 plus hotel...my hand shot up pretty quick to volunteer...I bbmed my counterpart who is a senior company officer to tell him I'm getting off the plane...he had noise cancelling headphones on and heard nothing. He immediately said what?! I'm getting off the plane too, my meetings tomorrow can wait! How awesome that he chose to get off the plan and get the cash too! The other colleague said see ya, I want to get home now.
It was awesome to get that cheque in the mail yesterday to go straight towards my rrsps (which my girl friends think is incredibly boring, but they are all shopaholics).. :)
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would gladly get pd $800 to skip a flight.
sadly never been offered.
Most i was offered was a voucher for flight (like miles... with blackout dates and limited value).
Passed.
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so they announced they needed 24 people to get off the plane, of which 10 could fly out the same night and get $400 or leave the following day on any flight and get $800 plus hotel...my hand shot up pretty quick to volunteer...
You know, if I had the option to fly one day later and get a hotel room and 800$ for it, I would fly a day later every day!
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would gladly get pd $800 to skip a flight.
sadly never been offered.
Most i was offered was a voucher for flight (like miles... with blackout dates and limited value).
Passed.
Pretty cool, I don't think I've ever been offered that either. Most was maybe $400.
I *never* take what is offered because I'm *always* flying with my children.
My hubby travels for business. He never takes the offers on the way there because he's on a tight schedule. He never takes the offers on the way home because...I'm home alone with the kids! Though he does occasionally have to change flights due to weather, etc., and I tell him that if he has to spend an extra night it's fine.
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Our company is aligning different salary structures, as a result my annual bonus percentage will be reduced. I will be compensated by having the percentage added to my monthly salary, plus something extra. The person explaining it to me stated that, like compound interest, salary increases keep adding up in different ways so hopefully I was OK with that? Finally someone who gets it!
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A co-worker/friend and his wife recently sold their paid off house and bought one that was $80,000 less.
They then put a portion of the proceeds towards the down payment on a rental property.
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A co-worker/friend and his wife recently sold their paid off house and bought one that was $80,000 less.
They then put a portion of the proceeds towards the down payment on a rental property.
Sounds like a good idea. This is for the bad ideas.
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A co-worker/friend and his wife recently sold their paid off house and bought one that was $80,000 less.
They then put a portion of the proceeds towards the down payment on a rental property.
Sounds like a good idea. This is for the bad ideas.
Except this is the "Anti-Antimustachian" Thread.
No, I'm not really sure why it's hanging out in the "Wall of Shame and Comedy" section of the forum.
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A co-worker/friend and his wife recently sold their paid off house and bought one that was $80,000 less.
They then put a portion of the proceeds towards the down payment on a rental property.
Sounds like a good idea. This is for the bad ideas.
Wrong thread, this is the ANTI-antimustachian place, where we talk about the good things our coworkers are doing in their life.
For instance, I found out that my coworker that doesn't know how to cook and usually will go to fast food just bought a pound of meat in, along with bread and cheese and is planning to make some cold cut sandwiches for lunch.
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A co-worker/friend and his wife recently sold their paid off house and bought one that was $80,000 less.
They then put a portion of the proceeds towards the down payment on a rental property.
Sounds like a good idea. This is for the bad ideas.
Wrong thread, this is the ANTI-antimustachian place, where we talk about the good things our coworkers are doing in their life.
For instance, I found out that my coworker that doesn't know how to cook and usually will go to fast food just bought a pound of meat in, along with bread and cheese and is planning to make some cold cut sandwiches for lunch.
Nice! I'm sure your coworker will enjoy not having to go to a fast food restaurant as much as the larger bank balance.
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A co-worker/friend and his wife recently sold their paid off house and bought one that was $80,000 less.
They then put a portion of the proceeds towards the down payment on a rental property.
That's friggin' awesome. +1
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A co-worker/friend and his wife recently sold their paid off house and bought one that was $80,000 less.
They then put a portion of the proceeds towards the down payment on a rental property.
Sounds like a good idea. This is for the bad ideas.
Nope-- this is the anti- anti- thread. Negative of a negative is a positve, sorta. This is a great story for this thread. In that vein, our neighbors are looking to downsize, and have asked us to give them "first dibs" when we are ready to move!
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A co-worker/friend and his wife recently sold their paid off house and bought one that was $80,000 less.
They then put a portion of the proceeds towards the down payment on a rental property.
Sounds like a good idea. This is for the bad ideas.
Nope-- this is the anti- anti- thread. Negative of a negative is a positve, sorta. This is a great story for this thread. In that vein, our neighbors are looking to downsize, and have asked us to give them "first dibs" when we are ready to move!
too many thread subscriptions.
Maybe i have been posting my stuff in the wrong one all along.
This is what i get for "skimming" when i read.
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A co-worker/friend and his wife recently sold their paid off house and bought one that was $80,000 less.
They then put a portion of the proceeds towards the down payment on a rental property.
Sounds like a good idea. This is for the bad ideas.
Nope-- this is the anti- anti- thread. Negative of a negative is a positve, sorta. This is a great story for this thread. In that vein, our neighbors are looking to downsize, and have asked us to give them "first dibs" when we are ready to move!
too many thread subscriptions.
Maybe i have been posting my stuff in the wrong one all along.
This is what i get for "skimming" when i read.
Please remove me from this list, thanks.
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A co-worker/friend and his wife recently sold their paid off house and bought one that was $80,000 less.
They then put a portion of the proceeds towards the down payment on a rental property.
Sounds like a good idea. This is for the bad ideas.
Nope-- this is the anti- anti- thread. Negative of a negative is a positve, sorta. This is a great story for this thread. In that vein, our neighbors are looking to downsize, and have asked us to give them "first dibs" when we are ready to move!
too many thread subscriptions.
Maybe i have been posting my stuff in the wrong one all along.
This is what i get for "skimming" when i read.
Please remove me from this list, thanks.
Please don't reply all.
-
A co-worker/friend and his wife recently sold their paid off house and bought one that was $80,000 less.
They then put a portion of the proceeds towards the down payment on a rental property.
Sounds like a good idea. This is for the bad ideas.
Nope-- this is the anti- anti- thread. Negative of a negative is a positve, sorta. This is a great story for this thread. In that vein, our neighbors are looking to downsize, and have asked us to give them "first dibs" when we are ready to move!
too many thread subscriptions.
Maybe i have been posting my stuff in the wrong one all along.
This is what i get for "skimming" when i read.
Please remove me from this list, thanks.
Please don't reply all.
Um, I don't think this is for me??????
(I see I'm not the only one who's lost an afternoon of email availability due to this phenomenon.)
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A co-worker/friend and his wife recently sold their paid off house and bought one that was $80,000 less.
They then put a portion of the proceeds towards the down payment on a rental property.
That's friggin' awesome. +1
Yup...they do very well with their money. It's also good for me...as I'm handy, they will pay me to do a few renos/updates for things they can't do or don't have time to do themselves. I have never charged friends or family to help with projects, but this is a rental property, not their home, and they are treating it as a business and want me to as well.
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CW told me this morning that he tracks his electricity usage and costs tightly. He averages the usage of the past 3 years for that month and predicts his bill to immediately see when there's an issue.
He's excited to be updating the insulation in his attic so he can track just how much money it saves him and if it's close to what the company is promising.
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A co-worker/friend and his wife recently sold their paid off house and bought one that was $80,000 less.
They then put a portion of the proceeds towards the down payment on a rental property.
Sounds like a good idea. This is for the bad ideas.
Nope-- this is the anti- anti- thread. Negative of a negative is a positve, sorta. This is a great story for this thread. In that vein, our neighbors are looking to downsize, and have asked us to give them "first dibs" when we are ready to move!
too many thread subscriptions.
Maybe i have been posting my stuff in the wrong one all along.
This is what i get for "skimming" when i read.
Please remove me from this list, thanks.
Please don't reply all.
Everybody STOP REPLYING ALL!
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A co-worker/friend and his wife recently sold their paid off house and bought one that was $80,000 less.
They then put a portion of the proceeds towards the down payment on a rental property.
Sounds like a good idea. This is for the bad ideas.
Nope-- this is the anti- anti- thread. Negative of a negative is a positve, sorta. This is a great story for this thread. In that vein, our neighbors are looking to downsize, and have asked us to give them "first dibs" when we are ready to move!
too many thread subscriptions.
Maybe i have been posting my stuff in the wrong one all along.
This is what i get for "skimming" when i read.
Please remove me from this list, thanks.
Please don't reply all.
Everybody STOP REPLYING ALL!
I WILL REPLY ALL UNTIL MY NAME IS TAKEN OFF THIS LIST!!!!
-
A co-worker/friend and his wife recently sold their paid off house and bought one that was $80,000 less.
They then put a portion of the proceeds towards the down payment on a rental property.
Sounds like a good idea. This is for the bad ideas.
Nope-- this is the anti- anti- thread. Negative of a negative is a positve, sorta. This is a great story for this thread. In that vein, our neighbors are looking to downsize, and have asked us to give them "first dibs" when we are ready to move!
too many thread subscriptions.
Maybe i have been posting my stuff in the wrong one all along.
This is what i get for "skimming" when i read.
Please remove me from this list, thanks.
Please don't reply all.
Everybody STOP REPLYING ALL!
I WILL REPLY ALL UNTIL MY NAME IS TAKEN OFF THIS LIST!!!!
Just click on the "Unnotify" button at the top or bottom of this page and you won't receive any more notices. But maybe that isn't what you're asking for?
-
A co-worker/friend and his wife recently sold their paid off house and bought one that was $80,000 less.
They then put a portion of the proceeds towards the down payment on a rental property.
Sounds like a good idea. This is for the bad ideas.
Nope-- this is the anti- anti- thread. Negative of a negative is a positve, sorta. This is a great story for this thread. In that vein, our neighbors are looking to downsize, and have asked us to give them "first dibs" when we are ready to move!
too many thread subscriptions.
Maybe i have been posting my stuff in the wrong one all along.
This is what i get for "skimming" when i read.
Please remove me from this list, thanks.
Please don't reply all.
Everybody STOP REPLYING ALL!
I WILL REPLY ALL UNTIL MY NAME IS TAKEN OFF THIS LIST!!!!
Just click on the "Unnotify" button at the top or bottom of this page and you won't receive any more notices. But maybe that isn't what you're asking for?
If you keep sending me message, I will contact the cyber police.
-
A co-worker/friend and his wife recently sold their paid off house and bought one that was $80,000 less.
They then put a portion of the proceeds towards the down payment on a rental property.
Sounds like a good idea. This is for the bad ideas.
Nope-- this is the anti- anti- thread. Negative of a negative is a positve, sorta. This is a great story for this thread. In that vein, our neighbors are looking to downsize, and have asked us to give them "first dibs" when we are ready to move!
too many thread subscriptions.
Maybe i have been posting my stuff in the wrong one all along.
This is what i get for "skimming" when i read.
Please remove me from this list, thanks.
Please don't reply all.
Everybody STOP REPLYING ALL!
I WILL REPLY ALL UNTIL MY NAME IS TAKEN OFF THIS LIST!!!!
Just click on the "Unnotify" button at the top or bottom of this page and you won't receive any more notices. But maybe that isn't what you're asking for?
If you keep sending me message, I will contact the cyber police.
Everybody STOP REPLYING ALL!
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C-C-C-Combo breaker!
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A co-worker/friend and his wife recently sold their paid off house and bought one that was $80,000 less.
They then put a portion of the proceeds towards the down payment on a rental property.
Sounds like a good idea. This is for the bad ideas.
Actually, the two "anti" prefixes cancel each other, so that make this the "mustachian" edition. For the good ideas.
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A co-worker/friend and his wife recently sold their paid off house and bought one that was $80,000 less.
They then put a portion of the proceeds towards the down payment on a rental property.
Sounds like a good idea. This is for the bad ideas.
Actually, the two "anti" prefixes cancel each other, so that make this the "mustachian" edition. For the good ideas.
What's the opposite of a mustache? A beard maybe? "Dr. Spendy McBeardFace"
(http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/f1a/b82/a00/resized/dr-seymour-beardface-meme-generator-it-s-pronounced-beard-facay-738ae7.jpg)
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A co-worker/friend and his wife recently sold their paid off house and bought one that was $80,000 less.
They then put a portion of the proceeds towards the down payment on a rental property.
Sounds like a good idea. This is for the bad ideas.
Actually, the two "anti" prefixes cancel each other, so that make this the "mustachian" edition. For the good ideas.
What's the opposite of a mustache? A beard maybe? "Dr. Spendy McBeardFace"
(http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/f1a/b82/a00/resized/dr-seymour-beardface-meme-generator-it-s-pronounced-beard-facay-738ae7.jpg)
The opposite of a mustache is an amish beard. I view the Amish as quite a Mustachian people, so even that won't work.
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My warehouse manager just asked if we were taking the following Friday or Monday off, due to Independence Day (truck companies were calling him to ask). I overheard one of the guys in our warehouse ask, "If they are open between the days, I would prefer Friday." I asked my warehouse manager about it a little while later, and he said, "He drives for Uber to make some extra cash and will be doing so on Independence Day as well."
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our receptionist likes to stop by my office throughout the day to chat as I'm the only one in the office close to her age (she's early 20s I'm late 20s everyone else is 40+). One day we were talking about saving money. I asked her why she brought bottled water everyday when we had a water cooler. She said 'oh it's not that much, you can buy a big case at Walmart for cheap' I explained that she could buy a $2 reusable water bottle and drink for free here at work and it'd pay for itself in a month (or sooner). I thought she was going to ignore me but this last week she started bringing in a reusable water bottle! It's not huge but hopefully she'll be open to my other suggestions in the future (like opting in to our 401k)...
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I told some coworkers about the benefits of owning index funds in IRAs. So they opened IRAs.
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While we were operating yesterday, the neurosurgeon mentioned that he had to borrow his dad's car for the day because his own was in for servicing. When I asked him what car he drove, he said it was a 15 year old Subaru. All the other staff in the theatre were shocked and asked him why he just didn't buy a new car and his reply was "I don't think it's worth it". Then he conceded that his dad's Mercedes was a fun drive and he would consider getting a second hand one once his Subaru died. I was super impressed given the amount of money he must be rolling in.
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One of my coworkers was drinking a Kroger-brand can of sparkling water. She said she had been buying La Croix from the vending machine, but then she realized she could buy a twelve-pack of store brand for $2.50 on sale and bring her own.
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One of my coworkers was drinking a Kroger-brand can of sparkling water. She said she had been buying La Croix from the vending machine, but then she realized she could buy a twelve-pack of store brand for $2.50 on sale and bring her own.
My wife loves sparkling water, which I don't get, but she, too, buys the Kroger brand, which I do like.
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New job and I was hanging out with the accounting department while they showed me how to access some stuff I'll need. I mentioned the various different retirement plans on offer and we started spreadsheeting the potential outcomes of each with different contributions and years of service. Was the nerdiest shit I've been a part of, I had a sudden feeling of belonging, like I had found my people.
In a later separate discussion I was talking about that first discussion with one of our techs. He mentioned that he'd picked this up as a casual retirement job because we have a pretty good defined pension plan and although he built his 401k up during his time in the private sector the chance to let it compound for another decade while this job covers living expenses and then cuts him a check, every month, forever was too good to miss.
I'm part of an organization which is criminally bad at managing its money but seems to be largely composed of people who are good at managing their money.
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The main difference is that he was offered a competitive market rate, whereas the director had been at the company for years receiving paltry raises. Over the years I had multiple people tell me that the only way to get a fair salary was to leave the company and come back as an external candidate. When I hired two FT employees in the same week, one internal and one external, I saw firsthand how unfairly the salary offers were calculated.
I just got a job offer last week that's going to be a 26% increase in base salary. My annuals have been 3% with 7% the year I got a promotion/titlebump.
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Someone at work has brought in a rice cooker to cook dinners. I'm very tickled by the sight of a rice cooker in the pantry area happily puffing away around 7pm every other day.
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Someone at work has brought in a rice cooker to cook dinners. I'm very tickled by the sight of a rice cooker in the pantry area happily puffing away around 7pm every other day.
this is cool. When we had a night shift, they cooked all the time. Rice cooker, electric skillet, George Foreman, crock pot,.
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This isn't a coworker story, but a client story:
He is a self-made man, an entrepreneur who started his own business and it is a successful one (its been going for 40 years). He still does all his own repairs on the business equipment despite having enough money to pay someone. He also does a lot of the maintenance on the company trucks. I think he just enjoys the work/tinkering. And he drives a crappy old van from the 90s as his personal vehicle. All of this is pretty cool, but before you think he might not actually be that wealthy, he drops this A-Bomb: He owns 25 rental properties. One of these rental properties is an apartment building with probably about 10 units.
...Oh and he does his own repairs on his rental properties too.
I think he works about 80 hours a week and he's past retirement age. So I guess he never really figured out the retirement part, but he sure has the financial independence down pat.
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Sounds more like he just likes this work too much to stop and keeps the money only as a counter that he does it right.
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Sounds more like he just likes this work too much to stop and keeps the money only as a counter that he does it right.
Yeah, I definitely think there is some truth to this.
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(http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/f1a/b82/a00/resized/dr-seymour-beardface-meme-generator-it-s-pronounced-beard-facay-738ae7.jpg)
The opposite of a mustache is an amish beard. I view the Amish as quite a Mustachian people, so even that won't work.
Oh no. The opposite of a mustache is a mullet... Cousin Brokeass Mullethead.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71rwJ1kvF9L._UL1500_.jpg)
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A friend of mine called me up the other day, and asked if I'd like to work a couple days with him. At $20/hr, and currently looking for work, my answer was obvious. Hell yes.
I've know this friend for 12 years now (he's 28), and I never get tired of talking to him. We're sitting in his work truck, and we start talking about his goals for the next three months, and he grins a little and tells me this:
1) I'm going to sell my rental property for $235k next week. I bought it 5 years ago for $145k. Selling to my tenant. No agents :)
2) I'm taking the $75k I intend to net after taxes, adding $115k from my savings, and paying off my primary residence. (He owes $190k, assessed at $290k)
3) I'm getting a HELOC for $230k and I'm going house hunting so I can start flipping houses on the weekend.
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There's a guy at work who's replacing his own timing belt. In the meantime, he's riding his bike to work (3.5 miles). Does that count as a double win?
He jokes that maybe he'll leave the job half-done (the car's 20 years old anyways) so that he *has* to keep riding his bike...
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There's a guy at work who's replacing his own timing belt. In the meantime, he's riding his bike to work (3.5 miles). Does that count as a double win?
He jokes that maybe he'll leave the job half-done (the car's 20 years old anyways) so that he *has* to keep riding his bike...
Serious double win. I think a guy like that would appreciate the MMM lifestyle.
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There’s a guy I’ve worked with for about 2 years and have often considered describing some of his decisions in the Anti-Mustachian thread… car choices, excessive apple products, various gadgets, etc. I've made a few light comments about the 'necessity' of some of the costs he has complained about but withheld the true facepunches I was itching to throw.
But just last week we had a conversation turn to finances and he told me how his family had discovered YNAB and had totally turned things around – paid down their debts by $15,000 in the last 3 months and on track to have them wiped out ages earlier than they ever thought possible.
I am really happy for him and have gained some hope for society in general after seeing someone like that make such a big change.
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There's a guy at work who's replacing his own timing belt. In the meantime, he's riding his bike to work (3.5 miles). Does that count as a double win?
He jokes that maybe he'll leave the job half-done (the car's 20 years old anyways) so that he *has* to keep riding his bike...
Serious double win. I think a guy like that would appreciate the MMM lifestyle.
Allegedly short drives are bad for your car because it doesn't properly warm up (and maybe other reasons too, I forget). So he "shouldn't" be using his car for such a short drive anyway!
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Allegedly short drives are bad for your car because it doesn't properly warm up (and maybe other reasons too, I forget). So he "shouldn't" be using his car for such a short drive anyway!
He's also said that he's hoping this car will be the one his kids will use when they get old enough to drive. His oldest is 10. That means it'll technically be a classic when his oldest starts learning, right?
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There's a guy at work who's replacing his own timing belt. In the meantime, he's riding his bike to work (3.5 miles). Does that count as a double win?
He jokes that maybe he'll leave the job half-done (the car's 20 years old anyways) so that he *has* to keep riding his bike...
Serious double win. I think a guy like that would appreciate the MMM lifestyle.
Allegedly short drives are bad for your car because it doesn't properly warm up (and maybe other reasons too, I forget). So he "shouldn't" be using his car for such a short drive anyway!
I can attest to this alleged problem. During the winter, if I turn my car off after 2 minutes of driving to run into the grocery store, I have a difficult time turning it back on. i don't like to leave my car running while I run into a store, but I almost feel like I should bc of this issue. Instead, I've tried to let my car warm up longer before turning it off.
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I can attest to this alleged problem. During the winter, if I turn my car off after 2 minutes of driving to run into the grocery store, I have a difficult time turning it back on. i don't like to leave my car running while I run into a store, but I almost feel like I should bc of this issue. Instead, I've tried to let my car warm up longer before turning it off.
This is likely to be down to the fact that car batteries, which are typically lead acid based technology, don't like cold temperatures. They can't provide as much current to start the car and struggle to recharge even though the car's alternator is providing enough current to do so. Coupled with the short journey time and the fact that cold engines need a higher current pulse to overcome the friction than warm engines explains why you're having a hard time starting it the second time around!
Leaving your car to warm up helps because it allows the battery more time to recover from it's high energy output, the alternator to give it more energy to recharge and the engine to reduce the amount of friction it needs to get going!
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I can attest to this alleged problem. During the winter, if I turn my car off after 2 minutes of driving to run into the grocery store, I have a difficult time turning it back on. i don't like to leave my car running while I run into a store, but I almost feel like I should bc of this issue. Instead, I've tried to let my car warm up longer before turning it off.
This is likely to be down to the fact that car batteries, which are typically lead acid based technology, don't like cold temperatures. They can't provide as much current to start the car and struggle to recharge even though the car's alternator is providing enough current to do so. Coupled with the short journey time and the fact that cold engines need a higher current pulse to overcome the friction than warm engines explains why you're having a hard time starting it the second time around!
Leaving your car to warm up helps because it allows the battery more time to recover from it's high energy output, the alternator to give it more energy to recharge and the engine to reduce the amount of friction it needs to get going!
This might all be true, but I think a better solution would be to walk to the grocery store that is apparently only a 2 minute drive away...
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This might all be true, but I think a better solution would be to walk to the grocery store that is apparently only a 2 minute drive away...
ZING
I live more than a two-minute drive from the store, and if I really don't have time to walk... I bike.
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I had an entire conversation with a co-worker today about the head-scratching that ensues when trying to figure out people who live the typical consumer sucka lifestyle. We discussed philosophies on raising children (ie, not spoiled and learning how to earn and responsibly use money), credit card debt (none, of course), and the general WTF-ness of people who can't manage their way out of a financial paper bag. Granted, she tends to go out for lunch on a daily basis, but at least she has her financial house in order.
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Can I also use this for the Anti-AntiMustachian Edition of Overheard on Facebook?
Old highschool friend announced she is about to start saving $200 a month on utilities now that her solar panels have finished being installed.
Good for her on installing the panels, but she's going to be saving $200 per month?! Jeez, either her electric bills are really high or she installed an entire solar panel farm and is essentially off-grid. I've only been paying around $150 per month to cool a 2200+ sqft. house, and this is summertime in Houston! I even pay extra for 100% Wind Power. Is this some place with really high rates (Hawaii)?
Didn't you people hear?!?!?!
Green technologies don't work. We MUST keep burning stuff or else the world will go dark forever... ;)
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I can attest to this alleged problem. During the winter, if I turn my car off after 2 minutes of driving to run into the grocery store, I have a difficult time turning it back on. i don't like to leave my car running while I run into a store, but I almost feel like I should bc of this issue. Instead, I've tried to let my car warm up longer before turning it off.
This is likely to be down to the fact that car batteries, which are typically lead acid based technology, don't like cold temperatures. They can't provide as much current to start the car and struggle to recharge even though the car's alternator is providing enough current to do so. Coupled with the short journey time and the fact that cold engines need a higher current pulse to overcome the friction than warm engines explains why you're having a hard time starting it the second time around!
Leaving your car to warm up helps because it allows the battery more time to recover from it's high energy output, the alternator to give it more energy to recharge and the engine to reduce the amount of friction it needs to get going!
This might all be true, but I think a better solution would be to walk to the grocery store that is apparently only a 2 minute drive away...
If it is so cold the car may not start again if turned off after the 30-60 minutes it takes to grocery shop; it may be too cold for most people to feel they can safely walk that distance.
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I can attest to this alleged problem. During the winter, if I turn my car off after 2 minutes of driving to run into the grocery store, I have a difficult time turning it back on. i don't like to leave my car running while I run into a store, but I almost feel like I should bc of this issue. Instead, I've tried to let my car warm up longer before turning it off.
This is likely to be down to the fact that car batteries, which are typically lead acid based technology, don't like cold temperatures. They can't provide as much current to start the car and struggle to recharge even though the car's alternator is providing enough current to do so. Coupled with the short journey time and the fact that cold engines need a higher current pulse to overcome the friction than warm engines explains why you're having a hard time starting it the second time around!
Leaving your car to warm up helps because it allows the battery more time to recover from it's high energy output, the alternator to give it more energy to recharge and the engine to reduce the amount of friction it needs to get going!
This might all be true, but I think a better solution would be to walk to the grocery store that is apparently only a 2 minute drive away...
If it is so cold the car may not start again if turned off after the 30-60 minutes it takes to grocery shop; it may be too cold for most people to feel they can safely walk that distance.
For "most people" (ie leaving out those with rare auto-immune disorders and such), what's unsafe about walking outside in the cold?
If you live in a cold place, you should have appropriate clothing. If the weather is so abnormally severe to restrict walking, you probably shouldn't be driving either - eat some leftovers and walk to the store tomorrow.
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My husband has been minding a friend's garden. He brought home five GIANT zucchinis, and was going to throw them in our compost pile because he knew we would not get around to cooking them. "Wait!" Said I. "I will take them to the special table in our break room where people leave things they don't want!"
They were gone in an hour.
Every large office needs such a special table in the break room.
I put one outside my office door for all the "treasures" that anyone is discarding. Old tech gear such as DVD players or Rokus or in my case most of an old socket set I found in my tools stash at home. Time for someone else to use it. I have a nicer full set of sockets (socket wrenches...). Garden veggies have happened a few times. Have a friend who gardens heavily and grows more than his family cares to try to eat. We get to help him eat it. ;)
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For "most people" (ie leaving out those with rare auto-immune disorders and such), what's unsafe about walking outside in the cold?
If you live in a cold place, you should have appropriate clothing. If the weather is so abnormally severe to restrict walking, you probably shouldn't be driving either - eat some leftovers and walk to the store tomorrow.
We have days with -40F windchills. Unless you can cover every inch of skin (and even with a mask, this can be very difficult to do), you shouldn't walk much further than from parking space to building. Just a few minutes of exposure can cause severe frostbite. And even on those days, cars still start. If there is danger the car won't start this is well below normal levels of "cold".
Walk tomorrow? Oh- is winter over? Places where you have to worry about your car not starting are not typical climates for most people.
(And yes- I have walk-commuted in the winter, about 2 miles. Once it gets below -30, I had someone drive me. I could not figure out a way to keep my feet fully warm, no matter the wool socks, plastic bags, and snow boots. The fact that my glasses froze to my nose so painfully I had to walk without them, thus not being able to see, also really sucked.)
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For "most people" (ie leaving out those with rare auto-immune disorders and such), what's unsafe about walking outside in the cold?
If you live in a cold place, you should have appropriate clothing. If the weather is so abnormally severe to restrict walking, you probably shouldn't be driving either - eat some leftovers and walk to the store tomorrow.
It continues to amaze me that so many people fail to realize modern climate control didn't exist before (hint) modern times. In all reality, extreme heat and cold are piddly shit to a sufficiently motivated human. Today's fabrics make it even easier than it was for early humans. I'm from friggin' Hawaii and I've managed to adapt to subzero temperatures numerous times in my life, generally on short notice.
It's not rocket science: base layer, mid layer, shell, boots, gloves, scarf, hat... and if it's bad enough, a down layer between mid and shell. I can come in sweating on a polar vortex day if I actually exert myself.
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(And yes- I have walk-commuted in the winter, about 2 miles. Once it gets below -30, I had someone drive me. I could not figure out a way to keep my feet fully warm, no matter the wool socks, plastic bags, and snow boots. The fact that my glasses froze to my nose so painfully I had to walk without them, thus not being able to see, also really sucked.)
-30? We'll allow it, temporarily. ;)
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For "most people" (ie leaving out those with rare auto-immune disorders and such), what's unsafe about walking outside in the cold?
If you live in a cold place, you should have appropriate clothing. If the weather is so abnormally severe to restrict walking, you probably shouldn't be driving either - eat some leftovers and walk to the store tomorrow.
It continues to amaze me that so many people fail to realize modern climate control didn't exist before (hint) modern times. In all reality, extreme heat and cold are piddly shit to a sufficiently motivated human. Today's fabrics make it even easier than it was for early humans. I'm from friggin' Hawaii and I've managed to adapt to subzero temperatures numerous times in my life, generally on short notice.
It's not rocket science: base layer, mid layer, shell, boots, gloves, scarf, hat... and if it's bad enough, a down layer between mid and shell. I can come in sweating on a polar vortex day if I actually exert myself.
Eh, people used to die from exposure in the winter too.
They would also die from starvation if they were stuck home too long and their supplies ran out.
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Eh, people used to die from exposure in the winter too.
Poor people without the means or materials to protect themselves, generally.
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Eh, people used to die from exposure in the winter too.
Poor people without the means or materials to protect themselves, generally.
Like a car? So I don't have to walk when it is -40F?
:)
Historically, people did not go outside in these extreme temperatures where I live. School was often canceled during the extremes of winter. They would go to the barn, very near the house- specifically due to the weather, to take care of the animals, and back to the house. Once there was sufficient snow, they would often build tunnels so they weren't exposed while doing that walk. Walking into town did not happen in these extreme temperatures. If you had to travel, you might take a sled, covered in blankets with heated rocks (or potatoes if you were lucky!) in your pocket; but still you traveled faster than walking.
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Consultant employee purchased brand new F150 crewcab 4x4. Commutes to work with it 5x weekly and tows camper 2x / month in summer.
I camp at a $8 campsite with my $300 mountaineering tent. Best part is I don't have to empty the waste tank on an RV.
Helped to inspire another guy to fix his own truck. $550 quote from mechanic to change alternator. I watched a YouTube video on how to do it, and told him I would do it for $250 and a case of beer. He looked it up himself and then did it that weekend. Cost him $120 in parts.
I love this story. This can be SUCH a money saver.
Researched and bought a/c compressor tools this weekend for ~$35 to change my car's a/c compressor clutch. Clutch is $60. Once upon a time I paid $175 to get this same job done (noisy bearing behind the clutch). After this I'll have the tool kit to use again, loan out to friends (brownie points for when I need a helping hand in return) or to sell.
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Manager noted today that winning lotto usually doesn't help anyone because if you don't already know how to manage money, more money will just get wasted.
I agreed with her enthusiastically :D
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Our CEO (CEO!) who makes literal millions drives an early-model Ford Explorer to work. I think it is a 2001.
Also, every year when we have profit sharing, he implores all of our employees to use the money to pay of debt (especially credit card debt) or invest it if you are debt-free. He is a genuinely great role model.
He's also in his 70s, so not a proponent of Early Retirement, but I still like him!
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I can attest to this alleged problem. During the winter, if I turn my car off after 2 minutes of driving to run into the grocery store, I have a difficult time turning it back on. i don't like to leave my car running while I run into a store, but I almost feel like I should bc of this issue. Instead, I've tried to let my car warm up longer before turning it off.
This is likely to be down to the fact that car batteries, which are typically lead acid based technology, don't like cold temperatures. They can't provide as much current to start the car and struggle to recharge even though the car's alternator is providing enough current to do so. Coupled with the short journey time and the fact that cold engines need a higher current pulse to overcome the friction than warm engines explains why you're having a hard time starting it the second time around!
Leaving your car to warm up helps because it allows the battery more time to recover from it's high energy output, the alternator to give it more energy to recharge and the engine to reduce the amount of friction it needs to get going!
This might all be true, but I think a better solution would be to walk to the grocery store that is apparently only a 2 minute drive away...
Of course! I was just explaining the why :)
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There's a guy at work who's replacing his own timing belt. In the meantime, he's riding his bike to work (3.5 miles). Does that count as a double win?
He jokes that maybe he'll leave the job half-done (the car's 20 years old anyways) so that he *has* to keep riding his bike...
Serious double win. I think a guy like that would appreciate the MMM lifestyle.
Allegedly short drives are bad for your car because it doesn't properly warm up (and maybe other reasons too, I forget). So he "shouldn't" be using his car for such a short drive anyway!
There are several reasons - expansion and contraction of the engine metals wearing out gaskets and seals. The oil can collect condensation and without getting it HOT enough to cook off the moisture your oil gets dirty and turns to a sludge inside the engine (change the oil more frequently then). Another is moisture/combustion by-products wind up in the exhaust system and the exhaust never gets hot enough to really dry itself out. Rust in the exhaust (just need to replace it more often). Then there is the wear and tear of the starter motor being used so often or the door hinges getting loose from the door opening and closing more frequently.
You start it once and drive five hundred miles or you start it fifty times, open and close the doors fifty times, etc and drive ten miles at a time.
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Allegedly short drives are bad for your car because it doesn't properly warm up (and maybe other reasons too, I forget). So he "shouldn't" be using his car for such a short drive anyway!
He's also said that he's hoping this car will be the one his kids will use when they get old enough to drive. His oldest is 10. That means it'll technically be a classic when his oldest starts learning, right?
Why not? My eldest child will be occasionally driving the car that brought him home from the hospital. Its still our daily driver. ;)
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I had a small win at work today. We have a fairly new receptionist who I think has the potential for mustachianism but has been raised in an un-mustachian world and doesn't know better. She drives a 90's car that for the most part runs fine but has a weird glitch that occasionally keeps it from starting for 10 minutes. This morning though it wouldn't start at all she's not sure why. By the time she got a ride to work she was very ticked off and ready to go buy a "new" car tonight because she needs a reliable car. She was looking at early 2000's under $10k. I said why not rent a car for a few days while finding a good deal? A little while later I walked by and she thanked me for talking some sense into her. She's going to pick up a rental after work and do some research before buying a car so she doesn't rush into purchase and get ripped off
Depending on the car it could be a cracked coil or bad ignition module. Both are susceptible to moisture and temperatures. I'd tell her to get it looked at. No reason to ditch a car over a $50 part (or less).
Would be glad to play 20+ questions to lead her to an affordable answer.
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I'm working on-site in a million-plus home installing cabinets. Homeowner pops in and starts telling the builder he was up all night working on a 100 million purchase of another company. It sounds like he may be in legal for the company he works for, I'm not sure.
So at the end of the day, he pops in later to check the progress. As we both leave for the day, I see him getting into a 2005 Honda Accord. It's a little beat up, but not too bad for an 05. I tell him I like the car. He says "Yeah, I'm trying to get it to 200k, and I'm at 144k right now. It gets me from point A to point B. I don't need anything flashy."
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I'm working on-site in a million-plus home installing cabinets. Homeowner pops in and starts telling the builder he was up all night working on a 100 million purchase of another company. It sounds like he may be in legal for the company he works for, I'm not sure.
So at the end of the day, he pops in later to check the progress. As we both leave for the day, I see him getting into a 2005 Honda Accord. It's a little beat up, but not too bad for an 05. I tell him I like the car. He says "Yeah, I'm trying to get it to 200k, and I'm at 144k right now. It gets me from point A to point B. I don't need anything flashy."
We're the cabinets nice?
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(And yes- I have walk-commuted in the winter, about 2 miles. Once it gets below -30, I had someone drive me. I could not figure out a way to keep my feet fully warm, no matter the wool socks, plastic bags, and snow boots. The fact that my glasses froze to my nose so painfully I had to walk without them, thus not being able to see, also really sucked.)
-30? We'll allow it, temporarily. ;)
From the other side of the globe:
School buses can't handle temperatures below 38C, so then kids have to walk to school. If it drops below -50C, attendance is voluntary.
http://www.nrk.no/sapmi/blir-det-kaldere-enn---50_-kan-elevene-holde-seg-hjemme-1.12145152
This is, by the way, a great argument for electric vehicles. I have talked to several EV drivers from the north who tell stories about the benefits of using electricity when it gets so cold that diesel freezes ("and then I just slid silently down the street, while that cocky bmw-owner stayed in the parking lot, unable to start his car due to the cold").
No, honestly, all respect for walking most of the year. No need to get extreme. It is possible, but there is no point.
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I'm working on-site in a million-plus home installing cabinets. Homeowner pops in and starts telling the builder he was up all night working on a 100 million purchase of another company. It sounds like he may be in legal for the company he works for, I'm not sure.
So at the end of the day, he pops in later to check the progress. As we both leave for the day, I see him getting into a 2005 Honda Accord. It's a little beat up, but not too bad for an 05. I tell him I like the car. He says "Yeah, I'm trying to get it to 200k, and I'm at 144k right now. It gets me from point A to point B. I don't need anything flashy."
We're the cabinets nice?
Meh, not IMHO. Nicer than most, but poor build quality.
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Like a car? So I don't have to walk when it is -40F?
:)
Your dispensation was granted several posts up this thread. ;)
Historically, people did not go outside in these extreme temperatures where I live. School was often canceled during the extremes of winter. They would go to the barn, very near the house- specifically due to the weather, to take care of the animals, and back to the house. Once there was sufficient snow, they would often build tunnels so they weren't exposed while doing that walk. Walking into town did not happen in these extreme temperatures. If you had to travel, you might take a sled, covered in blankets with heated rocks (or potatoes if you were lucky!) in your pocket; but still you traveled faster than walking.
Coincidentally, my wife and I are working through the second book of the Little House series. Last night's final chapter was about Almanzo and his family having to get up before dawn to try to save their upstate NY corn field from an unexpected frost... on the morning of July 2nd.
I find some of the things they did to stay warm in the winter downright comical, and of course there were times when it was just so bad that nobody went out at all.
It's pretty great being us, here and now.
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I know how to dress appropriately for the weather (I really appreciate the implication that I don't) and when I was commuting on foot during the last two winters, my entire body would ache from the cold. It was intensely unpleasant.
My apologies if any of that came across as offensive, definitely wasn't my intention. I'm just a strong supporter of doing everything reasonably in your power to avoid short car trips, which it sounds like you do lots of the time.
Of course! I was just explaining the why :)
And I greatly appreciate learning the why! Just didn't want people in less extreme climates getting the idea that letting the car idle for a while was preferable to walking... I don't doubt that understanding how the cold affects our vehicles will likely be very useful to some of us in the future.
It's pretty great being us, here and now.
Hell ya!
Sorry for sending this thread so far off topic! Looking forward to more anti-antimustachian stories. Here's one:
A conversation about suburbs vs. in-town living was going on and I sent out MMM's article on the true cost of commuting (where he arrives at the logical conclusion that it's worth ~$15k to shorten your commute by 1 mile) just as food for thought for a few people. Mostly got no responses from anyone... but the one other guy in my office who bikes to work all the time said "Oh, MMM. Ya my wife loves this website".
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And I greatly appreciate learning the why! Just didn't want people in less extreme climates getting the idea that letting the car idle for a while was preferable to walking... I don't doubt that understanding how the cold affects our vehicles will likely be very useful to some of us in the future.
Drive electric, never worry about such things again. :D
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Coincidentally, my wife and I are working through the second book of the Little House series. Last night's final chapter was about Almanzo and his family having to get up before dawn to try to save their upstate NY corn field from an unexpected frost... on the morning of July 2nd.
I find some of the things they did to stay warm in the winter downright comical, and of course there were times when it was just so bad that nobody went out at all.
It's pretty great being us, here and now.
Yeah the Little House series is pretty great - even for adult reading. My wife and I are going back through this series as well. It makes you realize how much this country has changed in 150 years. Pretty eye-opening.
Also, its amazing how much more equal gender roles seemed to be in those times. Sure men and women both had their designated tasks. But when its about survival, everyone pitches in for whatever is needed. Almonzo's father makes $200 for 2, three-year-old colts. Almonzo's mother makes $200 every year on her butter production alone. And she has a variety of side hustles that pull in and save money. These are EXTREME MMM families. Far beyond what we currently would ever have to suffer to achieve retirement. And they did it just to survive.
The idea that the 1950's era gender roles represent "traditional American values" is total bullcrap. The true equal partnership is evident in the marriages in those books and is what it seems we're returning to (albeit, very slowly) after a long hiatus.
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The idea that the 1950's era gender roles represent "traditional American values" is total bullcrap.
I don't think anybody thinks 1950s era gender roles represent "traditional American values". I hear people talking smack about the 1950s all the time. But I've never heard anybody take the opposite view - that is, I've never heard anybody say the 1950s represented the pinnacle of marriage values. Mostly, I think people are beating at strawmen.
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Overheard at a faculty meeting today: "but of course I don't carry any balances on my credit cards..."
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The idea that the 1950's era gender roles represent "traditional American values" is total bullcrap.
I don't think anybody thinks 1950s era gender roles represent "traditional American values". I hear people talking smack about the 1950s all the time. But I've never heard anybody take the opposite view - that is, I've never heard anybody say the 1950s represented the pinnacle of marriage values. Mostly, I think people are beating at strawmen.
I don't think the collective society thinks the 1950s are the pinnacle. Rather, I think that the collective society sees the 1950s as typical - the way it has "always been." Not good, but standard.
I should have re-phrased my original sentence: "the idea that 1950s are representative of the traditional American marriage work/relationship structure is total bull crap." These books show a different way that marriages were structured in the 1800s as it related to work and income.
As an aside, I'm not trying to say the 1800s were the golden era for women's rights or anything like that. That would be preposterous. My reflections only relate to how married couples made income and related to each other through their work. I found the stories in the Little House books are surprising for their time and inspiring in their portrayal of the equally shared burden of both Almonzo's and Laura's parents.
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The three post war decades were probably the peak for mass prosperity and social cohesion in the United States, but I'm not sure the marriages were anything special. It was pretty prosperous in a lot of the world then. In France they're called "Les trentes glorieuses," the thirty glorious years.
Yes, and then neoliberalism took over and we started to hurray the elbow.
In Germany its called "Wirtschaftswunder". (shorter then 30 years, but the same: extensive growing because everything had to be rebuild, it was the time where people where happy about workers from italy or Greece coming to Germany)
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Back to the subject.
My 22 years old jedi apprentice comes from our Canadian office and will work with me in Paris for the next 24 months. We pay her a decent amout of around 2500€ a month after taxes and on top of that 1200€ a month for lodging (which would be enough in Paris for a 400 sqf apartment).
What is a young jedi to do: she pockets the 1200€ a month and rents a tiny 150 sqf apartment for 500€.
She gets 150€ a month lunch allowance: she brings lunch to work most days and spends the 150€ on groceries.
I frankly doubt that she spends more than 1000€ a month on living expenses.
She travels quite a bit, which makes sense since she might as well take advantage of being in Europe, but I suspect her saving rate is above 50%. Not bad for a 22 years old.
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Back to the subject.
My 22 years old jedi apprentice comes from our Canadian office and will work with me in Paris for the next 24 months. We pay her a decent amout of around 2500€ a month after taxes and on top of that 1200€ a month for lodging (which would be enough in Paris for a 400 sqf apartment).
What is a young jedi to do: she pockets the 1200€ a month and rents a tiny 150 sqf apartment for 500€.
She gets 150€ a month lunch allowance: she brings lunch to work most days and spends the 150€ on groceries.
I frankly doubt that she spends more than 1000€ a month on living expenses.
She travels quite a bit, which makes sense since she might as well take advantage of being in Europe, but I suspect her saving rate is above 50%. Not bad for a 22 years old.
This is awesome! Pretty savvy decisions...sounds like she's going to have an awesome abroad experience and walk away with as much as 35-40K in the bank.
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Also, I feel cheated as a German American. Nobody gave US an ox and sword for our wedding. Apparently my ancestors got a better deal.
6th anniversary theme is iron and 11th anniversary theme is steel, so depending on your weapon of choice...
14th anniversary theme was ivory -- could substitute "horn" or "bone" for ivory to get your oxen
Or you could choose the GoFundMe option.
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Stepped over to a CW's cube just now to partake in a conference call.
Happened to glance at browser tabs on screen.
"Mr. Money Mustache - Earl..."
Squeed a little inside.
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Stepped over to a CW's cube just now to partake in a conference call.
Happened to glance at browser tabs on screen.
"Mr. Money Mustache - Earl..."
Squeed a little inside.
Time to have lunch with that co-worker?
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Stepped over to a CW's cube just now to partake in a conference call.
Happened to glance at browser tabs on screen.
"Mr. Money Mustache - Earl..."
Squeed a little inside.
Time to have lunch with that co-worker?
Yeah, leftovers at our desks. ;)
We already have occasional dialogue on financials, and he's interested in streamlining things a bit. I'm pretty sure my occasional FB posts of MMM articles led to this ;)
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(And yes- I have walk-commuted in the winter, about 2 miles. Once it gets below -30, I had someone drive me. I could not figure out a way to keep my feet fully warm, no matter the wool socks, plastic bags, and snow boots. The fact that my glasses froze to my nose so painfully I had to walk without them, thus not being able to see, also really sucked.)
-30? We'll allow it, temporarily. ;)
From the other side of the globe:
School buses can't handle temperatures below 38C, so then kids have to walk to school. If it drops below -50C, attendance is voluntary.
http://www.nrk.no/sapmi/blir-det-kaldere-enn---50_-kan-elevene-holde-seg-hjemme-1.12145152
This is, by the way, a great argument for electric vehicles. I have talked to several EV drivers from the north who tell stories about the benefits of using electricity when it gets so cold that diesel freezes ("and then I just slid silently down the street, while that cocky bmw-owner stayed in the parking lot, unable to start his car due to the cold").
No, honestly, all respect for walking most of the year. No need to get extreme. It is possible, but there is no point.
I live in Saskatchewan, Canada. It routinely goes below -40 in the winter (and up to 35C in the summer). They do cancel busses when it gets really cold, but I can't remember ever having schools closed due to cold.
Until had to put out daughter in daycare (I get cheap parking at work, so I ended up doing the driving on that *sadface* ), I walked to work every single day, rain or shine, extreme heat or extreme cold. The distance was about 3km.
I collected a decent array of clothing from base-layers/wind masks to rain suits, to extremely light weight t-shirts for the hot days.
I actually really like walking in -40 with a stiff wind, it makes me feel like a real badass. ;)
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I actually really like walking in -40 with a stiff wind, it makes me feel like a real badass. ;)
The thing I used to like about walking on really cold days was that I was warm the whole time. I didn't have to wait for a cold car to warm up.
But a parka-type hood that keeps wind off your face makes all the difference.
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I actually really like walking in -40 with a stiff wind, it makes me feel like a real badass. ;)
The thing I used to like about walking on really cold days was that I was warm the whole time. I didn't have to wait for a cold car to warm up.
But a parka-type hood that keeps wind off your face makes all the difference.
Properly attired, it's lovely. If you are missing proper clothing in some area (face, pants, etc), it can be a really unpleasant experience. It's not even that hard to gear up properly. I think I paid less for all my bad weather gear than I would have had to pay in gas/insurance/maintenance on a car to ferry me the same distance for a month or two.
The best thing about walking in extreme weather (cold, snow storms, rain) is the way everything seems different. If you only get out walking when it's warm and sunny, you miss the ways the world changes when conditions are different. It's really hard to explain, but worth it to experience!
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Properly attired, it's lovely.
One of my favourite quotes from a friend of mine is:
"There's no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong gear."
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Properly attired, it's lovely.
One of my favourite quotes from a friend of mine is:
"There's no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong gear."
There's a Swedish expression that goes "det finns inga dåliga väder, bara dåliga kläder", which pretty much translates to the above. Was your friend Swedish by any chance?
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Properly attired, it's lovely.
One of my favourite quotes from a friend of mine is:
"There's no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong gear."
There's a Swedish expression that goes "det finns inga dåliga väder, bara dåliga kläder", which pretty much translates to the above. Was your friend Swedish by any chance?
There is a similar sentence in german "Es gibt kein schlechtes Wetter, nur unangepasste Kleidung", with unangepasst has the nice implication of not meaning bad but just the wrong type.
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Off topic, but this phrase is what drew me to my child's previous (we moved) school. Their slogan is, "There's no bad weather, just bad clothing." They spend most of the day outside, unless there is lightning. There's a school here, in Germany, that takes it a bit further and they have hammocks for the kids to nap in and they make a communal lunch over a fire pit. I wish it weren't so far away, but I can't drive her 20 minutes when we have bikes.
On topic, when I waited tables, myself and another worker used to lauder and press our coworkers' work shirts for 2$ each (most of these were summer employees living in dry - no running water - cabins). It was cheaper than the dry cleaners, they met dress code (our boss was super picky about a starched shirt), and we both made a bit of extra money.
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I actually really like walking in -40 with a stiff wind, it makes me feel like a real badass. ;)
The thing I used to like about walking on really cold days was that I was warm the whole time. I didn't have to wait for a cold car to warm up.
But a parka-type hood that keeps wind off your face makes all the difference.
Properly attired, it's lovely. If you are missing proper clothing in some area (face, pants, etc), it can be a really unpleasant experience. It's not even that hard to gear up properly. I think I paid less for all my bad weather gear than I would have had to pay in gas/insurance/maintenance on a car to ferry me the same distance for a month or two.
The best thing about walking in extreme weather (cold, snow storms, rain) is the way everything seems different. If you only get out walking when it's warm and sunny, you miss the ways the world changes when conditions are different. It's really hard to explain, but worth it to experience!
I've "experienced" enough cold to last several lifetimes and the thrill is gone. When the choice is walking an hour in -45 windchill or an 8-minute drive, I'll take the car and spend the $2 it costs.
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would gladly get pd $800 to skip a flight.
sadly never been offered.
Most i was offered was a voucher for flight (like miles... with blackout dates and limited value).
Passed.
I was on a trip with my Mother this summer. I sadly could not convince her to take the $500 each to take the 3 hour flight delay. Bird in the hand I guess. I've happily taken lesser bonuses ($200) when it was just me or me and my spouse.
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would gladly get pd $800 to skip a flight.
sadly never been offered.
Most i was offered was a voucher for flight (like miles... with blackout dates and limited value).
Passed.
I was on a trip with my Mother this summer. I sadly could not convince her to take the $500 each to take the 3 hour flight delay. Bird in the hand I guess. I've happily taken lesser bonuses ($200) when it was just me or me and my spouse.
I don't know how people can turn down $167 tax-free risk-free dollars per hour. That's insane. Even if I was a millionaire and FIREd I would not turn the money down.
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Was your friend Swedish by any chance?
No, he was an ex US Army Ranger who spent a lot of time living in Alaska.
I wish I had some Swedish friends to help me get the pronunciation of that version right... I might be able to get close with the German one thanks to some Dutch relatives though.
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would gladly get pd $800 to skip a flight.
sadly never been offered.
Most i was offered was a voucher for flight (like miles... with blackout dates and limited value).
Passed.
I was on a trip with my Mother this summer. I sadly could not convince her to take the $500 each to take the 3 hour flight delay. Bird in the hand I guess. I've happily taken lesser bonuses ($200) when it was just me or me and my spouse.
I don't know how people can turn down $167 tax-free risk-free dollars per hour. That's insane. Even if I was a millionaire and FIREd I would not turn the money down.
The most I was ever offered was $400 but since it was a small regional airport to a big one like Atlanta the flights weren't few hours. I usually took the mid day flight, which meant that to get bumped I'd have to fly out the next day. Not really worth it when I'd loose a day of PTO and have to drive back a hour home.
On the same note, I used to pray I'd get overbooked from my Atl to "home" flight. I would have gotten bumped for $1. :-P
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Overhead In Canada.
While visiting some relatives in the Toronto area - Brampton - I noticed that on trash day they could only put 2 bags.
I asked my cousin about it and he said they are only allowed to put 2 trash bags. At first, I was like wtf that sucks, but then I realized that all the neighbors had various bins for recycling.
So they are allowed only 2 bags of trash (not sure what size but the larger type of trash bags) but unlimited recycling. I thought that was actually pretty cool as it seems like a good way to encourage recycling over being wasteful.
Anyone familiar with the actual rules or laws, feel free to correct any of my "facts".
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Don't know about Brampton, but in nearby Milton it was the same at two bags but garbage pickup was every second week, while recycling and compost were weekly.
Whereas in rural Nova Scotia it was weekly and you could put out as much as you like but you had to use government issued clear bags and would be fined $x/item that could've been recycled/composted.
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My sister has lived in two different cities in Ontario. Both required people to recycle -- nothing could go in the "garbage" that could be re-cycled, and there are lots of categories of things that have to be packed up separately. So there is a lot of sorting, but great re-cycling.
I've lived in a couple of places in Alberta. One provided a great big bin for garbage and one for re-cycling and you could put extra clear blue bags out for extra re-cycling. They had set pretty high goals for recycling and found that the goals were easily being exceeded, by making it easy for people. Where I live permanently now supplies a big bin for garbage. You are allowed to put four bags in it each week, though I'd never get anywhere near that. Recycling gets picked up every two weeks and grass clippings are picked up separately every week. Recycling is billed on your village bill, which includes water, sewer and natural gas for heating, so you are paying for it whether or not you use it. Bottles, milk cartons and tetrapaks have a deposit and you take them back to a bottle depot.
In Saskatchewan you had to pay a recycling company to come pick up your recycle boxes.
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Whereas in rural Nova Scotia it was weekly and you could put out as much as you like but you had to use government issued clear bags and would be fined $x/item that could've been recycled/composted.
I remember this!! I lived in rural Nova Scotia for a year. It was my first experience with recycling and composting being part of the regular garbage pickup. Luckily my roommate, from Ontario, was very knowledgeable about what could be recycled and showed me the way. We had VERY little garbage each week.
Now, in Calgary, we have a black bin for garbage (as far as I know, no bag limit. I rarely have more than half a bag) and a blue bin for recycling. I hear they are doing trial runs in some areas for a green bin for composting now, but I compost everything for my own garden anyway.
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When I was 19 and in the Navy, one of my electronic instructors stopped the class and said, " I love the Navy and I want to stay as long as I can, but if you don't like it, don't let money keep you in. Save your money."
That man was wise. I was always cheap, but once I decided I wanted to leave after my enlistment, it wasn't a problem. So many friends and coworkers should have listened.
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When I was 19 and in the Navy, one of my electronic instructors stopped the class and said, " I love the Navy and I want to stay as long as I can, but if you don't like it, don't let money keep you in. Save your money."
That man was wise. I was always cheap, but once I decided I wanted to leave after my enlistment, it wasn't a problem. So many friends and coworkers should have listened.
It must run in the rate. My electronic instructor and I wound up talking about our sign-up bonuses. He said when he enlisted, while everyone else wound up buying cars or huge TVs or whatever, he put his in the bank.
In part of one of our indoc classes, there were instructors coming in waves who talked about everything from TSP to investments to not being an idiot and living paycheck to paycheck, never going into debt, all that good stuff. Pushing for financial responsibility was a big thing in the Navy then as now; losing a top secret clearance because of debt was a big issue. During one of the classes, a seaman said how he was spending more than half his paycheck on a new car and insurance to the tune of about $900 a month. I felt like I was in good company when just about everyone looked at him and asked if he was nucking futz.
In the same class, a guy was putting 100% of his pay into savings or investments. When room and board are paid for and there are a ton of free things to do on base and through MWR, why not?
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In the same class, a guy was putting 100% of his pay into savings or investments. When room and board are paid for and there are a ton of free things to do on base and through MWR, why not?
That's awesome! A buddy of mine from college that was in ROTC told me something similar. He's also taking advantage of programs that the military offers for Rosetta Stone and other things.
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In the same class, a guy was putting 100% of his pay into savings or investments. When room and board are paid for and there are a ton of free things to do on base and through MWR, why not?
Wow, that's impressive.
Thanks to all the Canadians above who elaborated on what I mentioned. I truly think that is an awesome system.
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I'm proud of my son. The girlfriend of his oldest son was looking for a car. He told her to not buy anything the first day. She goes to the ex-boyfriend of her mother and gets pricing for a car at $10k, at 6%, with extended warranty and GAP insurance. All for only $250/mo for 6 years. At least she didn't buy it!
So my son goes down with her to actually buy the car, but FIRST they went to the credit union and got some 2.9% financing for the car. Then, at the dealer, he crossed out the warranty and the GAP insurance and talked the cost down to $8k based on the car itself. This was about $200/mo for 6 years.
She was very pleased with having my son help her on her first car. Guess he has learned and is no longer a grasshopper... :)
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Coworker got a quote from Honda to fix her oil pan gasket (~400$). She came to me and asked what she needed to do it herself and if I would help her, since I do all my own car maintenance. New total cost = ~75$ in parts + 7$ Chick Fil A lunch for me + life skills. She couldn't have been happier to tell Honda to shove it.
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Coworker got a quote from Honda to fix her oil pan gasket (~400$). She came to me and asked what she needed to do it herself and if I would help her, since I do all my own car maintenance. New total cost = ~75$ in parts + 7$ Chick Fil A lunch for me + life skills. She couldn't have been happier to tell Honda to shove it.
I wish I had a coworker like you :-). My dad is a retired ASE master tech but alas, he lives 1700 miles away.
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Coworker got a quote from Honda to fix her oil pan gasket (~400$). She came to me and asked what she needed to do it herself and if I would help her, since I do all my own car maintenance. New total cost = ~75$ in parts + 7$ Chick Fil A lunch for me + life skills. She couldn't have been happier to tell Honda to shove it.
I wish I had a coworker like you :-). My dad is a retired ASE master tech but alas, he lives 1700 miles away.
Dealerships are going to charge way more than a mechanic would. That's great that you were able to help her, and she was able to learn, and that she was willing to learn. I'm starting to work on my car, and it is a great feeling having done something yourself. I had time on a Friday afternoon at work and so I installed a new stereo in my car after mine stopped working, and after installing it, I had a smile on my face the whole weekend, just knowing that I did it.
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Shower in the other bathroom (I know - but the house was great buy) stopped working.
Was being told by DW to take a day off work to meet the plumber.
Found a video on instructibles about how to take the cartridge out, couldn't find anything wrong when I stripped the cartridge down - so decided to go to home depot for a replacement. The guy in the plumbing aisle looks at it goes to a cupboard and hands me a new one with no-charge written on it. They have a lifetime warrantly if you return the old part.
So day off work and $300 plumbers bill turned into a free fix and now I know how to do the other when it breaks.
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Shower in the other bathroom (I know - but the house was great buy) stopped working.
Was being told by DW to take a day off work to meet the plumber.
Found a video on instructibles about how to take the cartridge out, couldn't find anything wrong when I stripped the cartridge down - so decided to go to home depot for a replacement. The guy in the plumbing aisle looks at it goes to a cupboard and hands me a new one with no-charge written on it. They have a lifetime warrantly if you return the old part.
So day off work and $300 plumbers bill turned into a free fix and now I know how to do the other when it breaks.
"Flawless victory!" Imagine me saying that like the voice-over in Mortal Kombat.
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Shower in the other bathroom (I know - but the house was great buy) stopped working.
Was being told by DW to take a day off work to meet the plumber.
Found a video on instructibles about how to take the cartridge out, couldn't find anything wrong when I stripped the cartridge down - so decided to go to home depot for a replacement. The guy in the plumbing aisle looks at it goes to a cupboard and hands me a new one with no-charge written on it. They have a lifetime warrantly if you return the old part.
So day off work and $300 plumbers bill turned into a free fix and now I know how to do the other when it breaks.
"Flawless victory!" Imagine me saying that like the voice-over in Mortal Kombat.
Tossed Saladality?
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So day off work and $300 plumbers bill turned into a free fix and now I know how to do the other when it breaks.
Wow, very nice!
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Shower in the other bathroom (I know - but the house was great buy) stopped working.
Was being told by DW to take a day off work to meet the plumber.
Found a video on instructibles about how to take the cartridge out, couldn't find anything wrong when I stripped the cartridge down - so decided to go to home depot for a replacement. The guy in the plumbing aisle looks at it goes to a cupboard and hands me a new one with no-charge written on it. They have a lifetime warrantly if you return the old part.
So day off work and $300 plumbers bill turned into a free fix and now I know how to do the other when it breaks.
I replaced a cartridge in my shower once, I don't remember the cartridge being particularly expensive ($10-15?) but I do remember having to buy a $25 (or something similar) special tool to remove the bad one and install the good one. Still have the tool, but that was annoying.
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I bought my current house out of foreclosure. It had been empty for 18+ months .
The mixer taps in both bathroom showers had seized shut. Instead of calling a plumber I took the fascia off and went to Lowes and talked to them how to do it (with a little research on youtube too). Bought new mixer values and a special removal tool and set to it. Took me about 3 hours (they were jammed in and seized good) but I got it done. Cost me about $30 total. I’m sure a plumber would have been far quicker and more efficient and probably wouldn’t have slashed his knuckles open on the sharp tile edges but where’s the fun in that???
I figured it wasn;t working anyway so what was the worse case scenario?? (I did get a bit wet with the tests as well….
Saved a small fortune, learnt about my house and got it done myself. It’s all good.
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and went to Lowes and talked to them how to do it
I'm shocked they knew how to! Last time we were at Lowes, just to get a lock rekeyed, we had to explain to the guy manning the keying center how to do it!
(Good for you though!)
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and went to Lowes and talked to them how to do it
I'm shocked they knew how to! Last time we were at Lowes, just to get a lock rekeyed, we had to explain to the guy manning the keying center how to do it!
(Good for you though!)
Went to Home depot first and they told me to get a plumber in!!! I think I just got lucky in Lowes..
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and went to Lowes and talked to them how to do it
I'm shocked they knew how to! Last time we were at Lowes, just to get a lock rekeyed, we had to explain to the guy manning the keying center how to do it!
(Good for you though!)
Went to Home depot first and they told me to get a plumber in!!! I think I just got lucky in Lowes..
I've got a leaky faucet and suspect the cartridge is leaking... Replacement runs over $50 online but I've also heard they will send you one free sometimes if you complain. Don't look forward to opening this one up since the potential for leaking down my wall
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and went to Lowes and talked to them how to do it
I'm shocked they knew how to! Last time we were at Lowes, just to get a lock rekeyed, we had to explain to the guy manning the keying center how to do it!
(Good for you though!)
Went to Home depot first and they told me to get a plumber in!!! I think I just got lucky in Lowes..
I've got a leaky faucet and suspect the cartridge is leaking... Replacement runs over $50 online but I've also heard they will send you one free sometimes if you complain. Don't look forward to opening this one up since the potential for leaking down my wall
If you are noticing the leak down then how much aren;t you noticing inside the wall? you can take the tap and backing plate off quite easily and have a look.
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but I do remember having to buy a $25 (or something similar) special tool to remove the bad one and install the good one.
Didn't know about the special tool until I read the instructions that came with the part I was putting back in......
So I used vise grips to grab the cartridge, a block of wood as a lever and hit it the other end with a wrench - but I am a rocket scientist !
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Was your friend Swedish by any chance?
No, he was an ex US Army Ranger who spent a lot of time living in Alaska.
I wish I had some Swedish friends to help me get the pronunciation of that version right... I might be able to get close with the German one thanks to some Dutch relatives though.
Doing my best with Swedish pronounciation:
"Debt fins in get door licked vader, debt fins bar adore leg ack ladder"
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^ Thanks!
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but I do remember having to buy a $25 (or something similar) special tool to remove the bad one and install the good one.
Didn't know about the special tool until I read the instructions that came with the part I was putting back in......
So I used vise grips to grab the cartridge, a block of wood as a lever and hit it the other end with a wrench - but I am a rocket scientist !
I remember not being able to get the cartridge OUT without the tool, but that was early on in my homeowner career, would likely be a better jury-rigger today ;)
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I've got a leaky faucet and suspect the cartridge is leaking... Replacement runs over $50 online but I've also heard they will send you one free sometimes if you complain. Don't look forward to opening this one up since the potential for leaking down my wall
If it is a major brand (Delta, Moen, etc.) they likely have a lifetime warranty. You will need the model number and when you purchased it (I'm not sure, but I don't know if it is transferable) and call the warranty number. I did it just recently for a Delta faucet that had the stem break off in my rental (not quite sure how one breaks off a brass stem...). It was relatively painless, but did take a week or so for the part to come in the mail (I ended up buying one and returning the one I received under warranty).
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Nominating myself here. I work in the public sector and our office is overflowing with iMacs, MacBooks and iPads. We have over two Mac products per employee with a dozen iMacs sitting idle in empty offices. Today I got asked to buy a new MacBook for a new employee. We are having a bit of a budget crisis, the state slashed our budget because they weren't getting as much money from fossil fuel taxes as they'd planned.
I offered up my own brand new work MacBook as a sacrifice for the new employee. I will have to make do with just an iPad, iMac and windows laptop.
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I replaced a cartridge in my shower once, I don't remember the cartridge being particularly expensive ($10-15?) but I do remember having to buy a $25 (or something similar) special tool to remove the bad one and install the good one. Still have the tool, but that was annoying.
Did the same thing, but I got to thinking, as the bag the tool came in was nearly worn out, and heavily rebuilt with clear packing tape. I said to myself, "wonder how many times this thing got returned to Lowe's after somebody just needed to use it once?" Then I used it, slipped it back in the bag and returned it. At that point my Lowe's bill was typically in the 3-5K a month range, so I didn't loose much sleep over it.
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At that point my Lowe's bill was typically in the 3-5K a month range
Wait, what?
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At that point my Lowe's bill was typically in the 3-5K a month range
Wait, what?
Either doing a major home reno - or didn't know that cordless tool batteries are rechargable
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Either doing a major home reno - or didn't know that cordless tool batteries are rechargable
[/quote]
ROFL
Still the old non-recharable batteries ^^
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At that point my Lowe's bill was typically in the 3-5K a month range
Wait, what?
Either doing a major home reno - or didn't know that cordless tool batteries are rechargable
lol
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Nominating myself here. I work in the public sector and our office is overflowing with iMacs, MacBooks and iPads. We have over two Mac products per employee with a dozen iMacs sitting idle in empty offices. Today I got asked to buy a new MacBook for a new employee. We are having a bit of a budget crisis, the state slashed our budget because they weren't getting as much money from fossil fuel taxes as they'd planned.
I offered up my own brand new work MacBook as a sacrifice for the new employee. I will have to make do with just an iPad, iMac and windows laptop.
My boss's boss has overruled this. Apparently we have money sitting in an account and we haven't spent any of it in a while and he doesn't want anyone to think that we don't want or need that money so he's going to spend some to show that we do want and need it. The new employee already has an identical MacBook we're buying her, only apparently her keyboard is dirty.
Your tax dollars at work.
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My boss's boss has overruled this. Apparently we have money sitting in an account and we haven't spent any of it in a while and he doesn't want anyone to think that we don't want or need that money so he's going to spend some to show that we do want and need it. The new employee already has an identical MacBook we're buying her, only apparently her keyboard is dirty.
Your tax dollars at work.
[/quote]
That bullshit is not restricted to public service. It is normal for any bureocracy.
Everything that works on budget has people spend money in the budget just to have it spend, because if it is not spend, it will be cut away, and it is way harder to get new money in the budget then to not lose old, and most budgets don't even allow for moving of funds.
That is one reaon why some big company "restructure" themselves every few years.
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My boss's boss has overruled this. Apparently we have money sitting in an account and we haven't spent any of it in a while and he doesn't want anyone to think that we don't want or need that money so he's going to spend some to show that we do want and need it. The new employee already has an identical MacBook we're buying her, only apparently her keyboard is dirty.
Your tax dollars at work.
That bullshit is not restricted to public service. It is normal for any bureocracy.
Everything that works on budget has people spend money in the budget just to have it spend, because if it is not spend, it will be cut away, and it is way harder to get new money in the budget then to not lose old, and most budgets don't even allow for moving of funds.
That is one reaon why some big company "restructure" themselves every few years.
[/quote].
That's one thing I do like about my small business. There is a complete incentive to lower expenses wherever possible. I was just a trade show and booked my stay at a hotel that is way cheaper than the one most others use, because it was all the same to me. I could have saved even more by staying at an AirBNB, but don't want to for a work trip.
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I had to drive into the city yesterday for a medical appointment and saw a guy riding a foldable bike with square pails for panniers...I felt like I was for sure seeing a real-life Mustachian! :-)
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Discussion going on about mortgages, home ownership vs. renting, etc.
Me: something about how renting is great
CW: "Renting is great... especially when you are used to living with roommates and pay for your mortgage renting to friends!"
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Well, I have a story about some roommates. But then again all of my roommates did a trade with me, paying no rent in exchange for helping me out. A deal that is probably attractive for mustacians and draws them out of the woodwork.
One of my previous roommates worked at Starbucks. She had no car, but would have to start work early in the morning at around 3:00AM so she bike rode slightly over 3.5 miles at that time. Also, her food expenses were pretty low, she cooked mostly pasta and canned soup and had some complimentary drink mixes courtesy of Starbucks. Sadly, she was only my roommate for 1 month.
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I work at a very small family owned business with just a handful of employees. The engineer is only a few years older than me and bought his first house/small farm at 25, and as of a few months ago he has it paid in full (just over a year later). He is incredibly frugal and aside from no debt, drives a 20 year old car, has an old truck for his farm vehicle (plus some old tractors), and I know he opened a Roth IRA this summer. Although he doesn't (or wasn't when we talked about it) maxing out his retirement, I have a feeling he is going to be pretty wealthy in the coming years.
We also go to a small number of tradeshows a year and I loved it when I talked my boss into renting a house instead of 3 hotel rooms and letting us get groceries instead of eating out always. He is already super cheap (not always in a good way) so he loves the savings and I enjoy being more comfortable.
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The opposite of a mustache is an amish beard. I view the Amish as quite a Mustachian people, so even that won't work.
At the risk of necro'ing the thread... the true opposite of a mustache would be some kind of Brazilian wax.
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At that point my Lowe's bill was typically in the 3-5K a month range
Wait, what?
Either doing a major home reno - or didn't know that cordless tool batteries are rechargable
Thanks, that made me LOL. Until recently I was a builder who did all my own mechanical work. I found Lowes to be my best source for the finishing end all my plumbing and electrical work, everything from switches and receptacles to sinks, toilets, and all the appliances. Given that, it's pretty easy to keep a stiff tab going at a place likes Lowes. Disclaimer: Always used the Lowes CC for the 5% discount, and paid in full as soon as the bill showed up in my E-mail.
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Had dinner with a younger collegue friend of mine last night. We started talking finance because its a topic I love and that she knows little about but has a certain interest. We make approximately the same salary, and she divulged that she puts aside 300$ per paycheck into her TFSA (Tax-Free Savings Account here in Canada). She's a bit scared of some day not having enough money, so she did it as an afterthought.
This amounts to approximately 25% of her take-home pay - and after calculating with her how much that is per year, and an average return, she got super excited to know that she was well on her way to have 1 million $ before traditional retirement age if she continues on this path. Granted, she has a financial advisor that she doesn't know how much she pays for (percentage of her returns), but the fact that this 24 year old puts away over 7,000$ a year on a approximately 30,000$ take home pay is something I'm very proud of. I may even have piqued her interest in self-managing her funds in the future :)
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she got super excited to know that she was well on her way to have 1 million $ before traditional retirement age if she continues on this path.
Great job! This is what started to open my eyes about saving and investing.
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This week in our employee news letter, there was a video interview with one of my favorite co-workers. The entire interview was hilarious, but this was the anti-antimustachian highlight:
I: What's your dream car?
CW: Paid for
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FI came up at a gig this weekend. Turns out, the guy saves even more money than I do. He might even be in this very thread...
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Had a field trip (for lack of a better phrase) at work yesterday and my coworker offered to drive. Her car has 170k miles on the odometer and still has the original tape deck in the dash. I was seriously impressed.
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Had a field trip (for lack of a better phrase) at work yesterday and my coworker offered to drive. Her car has 170k miles on the odometer and still has the original tape deck in the dash. I was seriously impressed.
Hey, I resemble that remark! My '95 Corolla has 200k and the original tape deck.
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Had a field trip (for lack of a better phrase) at work yesterday and my coworker offered to drive. Her car has 170k miles on the odometer and still has the original tape deck in the dash. I was seriously impressed.
Hey, I resemble that remark! My '95 Corolla has 200k and the original tape deck.
I wish my tape deck worked, I enjoyed using it to listen to my Ipod, but when it crapped out I bought an aftermarket stereo and got a lot of pleasure in installing it myself (very minimal mechanical skills). I felt happy that I was able to do this and realized just how many things I could take care of on my own.
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Had a field trip (for lack of a better phrase) at work yesterday and my coworker offered to drive. Her car has 170k miles on the odometer and still has the original tape deck in the dash. I was seriously impressed.
Hey, I resemble that remark! My '95 Corolla has 200k and the original tape deck.
My 2000 van only has 140K miles but it has the original tape deck. I'm getting there but at our current mileage per year it will take 12 years to get to 170K.
Now if i could only find some tapes!
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Had a field trip (for lack of a better phrase) at work yesterday and my coworker offered to drive. Her car has 170k miles on the odometer and still has the original tape deck in the dash. I was seriously impressed.
Hey, I resemble that remark! My '95 Corolla has 200k and the original tape deck.
My 2000 van only has 140K miles but it has the original tape deck. I'm getting there but at our current mileage per year it will take 12 years to get to 170K.
Now if i could only find some tapes!
I saw some awesome new wave tapes at Goodwill the other day.
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Had a field trip (for lack of a better phrase) at work yesterday and my coworker offered to drive. Her car has 170k miles on the odometer and still has the original tape deck in the dash. I was seriously impressed.
Hey, I resemble that remark! My '95 Corolla has 200k and the original tape deck.
My 2000 van only has 140K miles but it has the original tape deck. I'm getting there but at our current mileage per year it will take 12 years to get to 170K.
Now if i could only find some tapes!
I miss my 1998 Subaru Impreza with 250k and a beautiful tape deck...
It's okay, I switched to a 2004 Hyundai Sonata last year with the radio stuck on one station. Anyone like all-day, every-day jazz music?
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Anyone like all-day, every-day jazz music?
Yay! :)
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Very proud of one of the guys on my team at work. Today he told me, "My wife just got a promotion! I told her to get online and increase her 401k savings rate immediately."
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I've been carpooling with a co-worker. It shouldn't be too surprising that someone whose into carpooling is into reducing expenses. She's mentioned a number of mustachian things like choosing an affordable house, planning to have it paid for in the next 10 years and, most recently, successfully have a no-spend week. She's a good influence, for sure! I'm lucky to get to car pool with her.
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Yesterday...
Coworker (who has just purchased second residential property) ended up chatting about how once one of the houses is paid off she and partner shouldn't really need that much to live on, and how she will probably have the option of retiring in her early fifties, despite just embarking on yet another underpaid postgraduate qualification.
I commented that 1 million in shares and a paid-off residence will be quite enough for me and I'll reach it about the same time as her. Should throw off about 30k per annum after franking.
She commented that you could probably get away for much less, and that superannuation (Aussie equivalent- kind of - for 401k) could just be the icing on the cake (I agree, of course).
Today...
Other office mates (all less well-off than us, I believe) complaining about how poor quality economy plane flights are and how they'd never use them. Coworker and I give each other amused looks.
My colleagues are such a mixture of totally clued up and totally clueless, it's hilarious.
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Coworker told me he likes the kind of car I have (1st gen Honda Insight) but he would never buy one because they're too expensive. I said I paid $5k for mine. He said yes, he never pays over $2k for a car. (He fixes them up himself.)
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I commented that 1 million in shares and a paid-off residence will be quite enough for me and I'll reach it about the same time as her. Should throw off about 30k per annum after franking.
Free postage is a sure-fire way to FI.
Other office mates (all less well-off than us, I believe) complaining about how poor quality economy plane flights are and how they'd never use them. Coworker and I give each other amused looks.
Seriously, I hate it when the wings fall off my economy flights. That never happens in first class!
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Today...
Other office mates (all less well-off than us, I believe) complaining about how poor quality economy plane flights are and how they'd never use them. Coworker and I give each other amused looks.
My colleagues are such a mixture of totally clued up and totally clueless, it's hilarious.
This is slightly ambiguous. Are they talking about First Class seats vs. Economy seats? Or are they talking about Delta vs. Spirit Air? Because I have saved $150 on a flight before by flying Spirit. I will not be doing that again.
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This is slightly ambiguous. Are they talking about First Class seats vs. Economy seats? Or are they talking about Delta vs. Spirit Air? Because I have saved $150 on a flight before by flying Spirit. I will not be doing that again.
Sorry for the ambiguity. I meant a budget airline. I am not from N. America and I have no idea who Delta or Spirit Air is.
I commented that 1 million in shares and a paid-off residence will be quite enough for me and I'll reach it about the same time as her. Should throw off about 30k per annum after franking.
Free postage is a sure-fire way to FI.
Again sorry to the ambiguity, I forgot that's a common usage of 'franking' in other parts of the world. I meant fully-franked dividends (In common Australian parlance, franking credits being a means of shareholders avoiding paying tax on dividends when the company has already paid tax).
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This is slightly ambiguous. Are they talking about First Class seats vs. Economy seats? Or are they talking about Delta vs. Spirit Air? Because I have saved $150 on a flight before by flying Spirit. I will not be doing that again.
Sorry for the ambiguity. I meant a budget airline. I am not from N. America and I have no idea who Delta or Spirit Air is.
Delta is a major US airline, and IMHO it is the nicest--that being said, the prices really aren't any different than the other major airlines. For that matter, the flights are really about the same as well--the "other major airlines" in this scenario being United and American.
Spirit Airlines is a budget airline. Actually, that is not fair to airlines. Spirit Airlines is the Dollar Store of the skies. Or maybe the portable-toilet-of the skies. I will never fly Spirit Air again, and it has even scared me into staying away from the other budget airlines. Just not worth it.
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This is slightly ambiguous. Are they talking about First Class seats vs. Economy seats? Or are they talking about Delta vs. Spirit Air? Because I have saved $150 on a flight before by flying Spirit. I will not be doing that again.
Sorry for the ambiguity. I meant a budget airline. I am not from N. America and I have no idea who Delta or Spirit Air is.
Delta is a major US airline, and IMHO it is the nicest--that being said, the prices really aren't any different than the other major airlines. For that matter, the flights are really about the same as well--the "other major airlines" in this scenario being United and American.
Spirit Airlines is a budget airline. Actually, that is not fair to airlines. Spirit Airlines is the Dollar Store of the skies. Or maybe the portable-toilet-of the skies. I will never fly Spirit Air again, and it has even scared me into staying away from the other budget airlines. Just not worth it.
Stripey, if you're British, think Ryan Air.
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Delta is a major US airline, and IMHO it is the nicest--that being said, the prices really aren't any different than the other major airlines. For that matter, the flights are really about the same as well--the "other major airlines" in this scenario being United and American.
Spirit Airlines is a budget airline. Actually, that is not fair to airlines. Spirit Airlines is the Dollar Store of the skies. Or maybe the portable-toilet-of the skies. I will never fly Spirit Air again, and it has even scared me into staying away from the other budget airlines. Just not worth it.
Please don't insult the dollar (or pound) stores. The Family Dollar, Dollar General, and Dollar Tree stores in my area are cleaner and have better service than Wal-Mart.
Spirit, one and done with that atrocious airline. There is cheap, then there is Spirit cheap. They gave me coupons for my 6 hour delay; coupons were not accepted 2 weeks later when I wanted to book another flight.
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Spirit, one and done with that atrocious airline. There is cheap, then there is Spirit cheap. They gave me coupons for my 6 hour delay; coupons were not accepted 2 weeks later when I wanted to book another flight.
I still feel a little bad about it 2+ years later - I was trying to get a friend to come to a weekend trip somewhere, and the cheapest flights were Spirit and he refused to fly on that airline again because of prior bad experiences, so we were looking at other airlines. Long story short, I ended up surprising him with a gift plane ticket because he had a death in the family and had to spend his vacation fund on a trip home. I looked up the amount to fly on a non-Spirit flight and sent the money to his husband, who I was conspiring with - he booked the flight, packed his suitcase and took care of the whole "surprise! you're going to the airport!" bit. But the husband booked the cheaper Spirit Air flight... my friend was of course far too polite to complain about a free plane ticket, but I knew he must have hated flying with them!
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Coworker told me he likes the kind of car I have (1st gen Honda Insight) but he would never buy one because they're too expensive. I said I paid $5k for mine. He said yes, he never pays over $2k for a car. (He fixes them up himself.)
That's pretty impressive.
ps - 1st gen Insight is sick. I would buy a new one in a second if they still offered a manual transmission.
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I had one for this thread, but it took me two days to find it.
Several engineers in my office have to travel for work. Most of them save up frequent flyer miles, hotel points, and rental car points to go on a discounted vacation with their families every couple years.
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I had one for this thread, but it took me two days to find it.
We're in that time of year where the anti-mustachian experiences far outweigh the anti-anti-mustachian experiences.
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Yesterday I heard a coworker talk about how a relative of hers realized if they changed their phone plan to one with less data (maybe it was no data) they would save enough to retire three years earlier. I jumped into the conversation and got some good info from her because my phone plan is one thing I have left that could certainly be lowered to a more reasonable rate.
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One of my coworkers mentioned that she used to buy a can of La Croix from the vending machine every day, but then she realized she could get a twelve pack of the Kroger brand, bring it from home, and save boatloads.
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While my husband's colleagues were over for dinner on Sunday, we talked about their upcoming move. They mentioned that their first priority was that their apartment was within biking distance of work and their daughters daycare (which is no easy feat as the daycare/preschools are a bit overwhelmed and you don't always get your first choice). Considering that their new area also has good public transport, they won't need a car.
Also, they are upgrading to a one bedroom for their current studio apartment.
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you don't always get your first choice
I can understand if a place is full, but I think it's insane how competitive daycare has become. I read that in NYC, if applying for an "elite" place, it is advised that a couple should apply to at least 6 and write kiss-ass letters to their top choices.
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you don't always get your first choice
I can understand if a place is full, but I think it's insane how competitive daycare has become. I read that in NYC, if applying for an "elite" place, it is advised that a couple should apply to at least 6 and write kiss-ass letters to their top choices.
It makes sense, especially in high density areas with expensive real estate. Daycares/preschools have to be full, or nearly full, to stay solvent and pay the teachers/carers. Establishments with a good reputations and reasonable cost (the sweet spot, whatever that is for the region) are going to have incredible wait lists.
American public schools are pretty unique that you can just sign your kid up and they start right away. In Germany, at least the town I'm in, it can take a while for a slot to open up if you don't plan ahead (even for elementary age kids). I think it's easier for older kids because the teacher-student ratios are more flexible. Still, many professional parents opt for private school to avoid these hassles.
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One coworker just brought in a ham bone for another coworker to take home and make soup! And these are both ~28 year old guys.
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One coworker just brought in a ham bone for another coworker to take home and make soup! And these are both ~28 year old guys.
(http://m.quickmeme.com/img/01/01e48907d3c6b96ce86502794307abec0cea29f0205a492fad96d2db426354cc.jpg)
http://youtu.be/Sr2PlqXw03Y
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One of my co-workers decided as a holiday gift to the office he would buy a mini-fridge and microwave for everyone to share.
I'm not sure if it will work out as anti-anti-mustachian for the co-worker, but at the least he took one for the mustachian team, as it were. My office moved last year and threw away the old broken fridge and microwave. But we never got a new one in the new office (I hinted a few times, but the boss never decided to do it). No fridge/micro makes it much harder to bring leftovers from home to have for lunch, and people are more likely to buy individual cold drinks instead of bulk purchasing something from the grocery store, etc. In my case I even wasted some money on instant chemical cold packs when I had an injury that needed icing and there was no freezer to put a reusable cold pack in.
Now I just have to actually get myself back into the habit of packing lunches...
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One of my co-workers decided as a holiday gift to the office he would buy a mini-fridge and microwave for everyone to share.
A buddy of mine works at a small office that didn't have a fridge, the owner wouldn't get around to buying one, so he found one of the side of the street and brought it in. It works, though likely is horribly energy efficient. All of a sudden the busy owner that was just too swamped to think of getting a fridge managed to find an energy efficient one and told him to get rid of the fridge. The timing was just uncanny.
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you don't always get your first choice
I can understand if a place is full, but I think it's insane how competitive daycare has become.
Some friends in Boston told me that you essentially have to apply to every daycare you can find, and just take whatever one has an open spot. There's very little excess capacity.
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Please don't insult the dollar (or pound) stores. The Family Dollar, Dollar General, and Dollar Tree stores in my area are cleaner and have better service than Wal-Mart.
Wow, you must either have one incredibly nasty Walmart, or some real outliers in the dollar store category? We spend part of our winters in NW FL. in an area where the Dollar General store is only very slightly cleaner than a shit splattered cattle barn, and the clientele look like extras from the original Star Wars café scene. Our Dollar General store near our home in the Northeast is so F'ed up that I have had conversations with corporate about countless issues. Problems like their crack head management and employees blocking the sidewalks and entrance while smoking, garbage blowing all over the property, a retention pond on the property that's typically full of floating garbage and a few shopping carts, isles jammed with product not put away, empty shelves, and management standing around like retarded cows while 15-20 customers stand and wait for one lone cashier to check them out. I seriously believe that Dollar General is nothing but a blight inflicted upon poor and rural America. I don't think they could run a more F-ed up operation if they tried.
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One coworker just brought in a ham bone for another coworker to take home and make soup! And these are both ~28 year old guys.
(http://m.quickmeme.com/img/01/01e48907d3c6b96ce86502794307abec0cea29f0205a492fad96d2db426354cc.jpg)
http://youtu.be/Sr2PlqXw03Y
I prefer hot ham water, myself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdmySY9Qiqo
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Please don't insult the dollar (or pound) stores. The Family Dollar, Dollar General, and Dollar Tree stores in my area are cleaner and have better service than Wal-Mart.
Wow, you must either have one incredibly nasty Walmart, or some real outliers in the dollar store category? We spend part of our winters in NW FL. in an area where the Dollar General store is only very slightly cleaner than a shit splattered cattle barn, and the clientele look like extras from the original Star Wars café scene. Our Dollar General store near our home in the Northeast is so F'ed up that I have had conversations with corporate about countless issues. Problems like their crack head management and employees blocking the sidewalks and entrance while smoking, garbage blowing all over the property, a retention pond on the property that's typically full of floating garbage and a few shopping carts, isles jammed with product not put away, empty shelves, and management standing around like retarded cows while 15-20 customers stand and wait for one lone cashier to check them out. I seriously believe that Dollar General is nothing but a blight inflicted upon poor and rural America. I don't think they could run a more F-ed up operation if they tried.
You must have had a real dud. I've been in literally hundreds of Dollar General stores all over the southeast, as recently as earlier this week, and I've never seen anything like that. Generally,they're quite clean, though admittedly the clientele can be interesting.
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you don't always get your first choice
I can understand if a place is full, but I think it's insane how competitive daycare has become. I read that in NYC, if applying for an "elite" place, it is advised that a couple should apply to at least 6 and write kiss-ass letters to their top choices.
It makes sense, especially in high density areas with expensive real estate. Daycares/preschools have to be full, or nearly full, to stay solvent and pay the teachers/carers. Establishments with a good reputations and reasonable cost (the sweet spot, whatever that is for the region) are going to have incredible wait lists.
American public schools are pretty unique that you can just sign your kid up and they start right away. In Germany, at least the town I'm in, it can take a while for a slot to open up if you don't plan ahead (even for elementary age kids). I think it's easier for older kids because the teacher-student ratios are more flexible. Still, many professional parents opt for private school to avoid these hassles.
The Mennonite run daycare I looked at in NYC had a waiting list for infants of a year and a half. You had to get on the waitlist before conception. The other place I looked at had a 6 month minimum wait. Most people I know opted for sharing a nanny, which is similar in cost and much more flexible.
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I mentioned to my salesmen that I was thinking of getting a new phone as mine is a few years old and has some issues. Nothing major, but as 80% of its usage is for business, I don't mind spending the money for a new phone. My salesmen pointed out that his phone is 6 years old. I had to smile at that.
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Several people at work talk about being on "the Dave Ramsey Plan."
I guess it's a good thing that they are budget conscious, but I still feel like their lives are focused around consumerist spending instead of happiness.
One step at a time I suppose.
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I mentioned to my salesmen that I was thinking of getting a new phone as mine is a few years old and has some issues. Nothing major, but as 80% of its usage is for business, I don't mind spending the money for a new phone. My salesmen pointed out that his phone is 6 years old. I had to smile at that.
One of my coworkers had the same phone for 8-9 years up until about 3 years ago. He was hoping to make it to a decade on the same device, but after he missed an email that asked to reschedule a sales call (he was the salesperson) he changed his mind. Similar to your situation, I have a nice phone because it makes work travel a lot more productive.
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This is slightly ambiguous. Are they talking about First Class seats vs. Economy seats? Or are they talking about Delta vs. Spirit Air? Because I have saved $150 on a flight before by flying Spirit. I will not be doing that again.
Sorry for the ambiguity. I meant a budget airline. I am not from N. America and I have no idea who Delta or Spirit Air is.
Delta is a major US airline, and IMHO it is the nicest--that being said, the prices really aren't any different than the other major airlines. For that matter, the flights are really about the same as well--the "other major airlines" in this scenario being United and American.
Spirit Airlines is a budget airline. Actually, that is not fair to airlines. Spirit Airlines is the Dollar Store of the skies. Or maybe the portable-toilet-of the skies. I will never fly Spirit Air again, and it has even scared me into staying away from the other budget airlines. Just not worth it.
HAHAHAHAHA!!! A friend recently flew Spirit and had the same opinion. It was apparently a HORRIBLE experience! Sometimes in life, you do get what you pay for!
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. Most people I know opted for sharing a nanny, which is similar in cost and much more flexible.
I wish I knew where to look/go to find quality nannies. I think at this point the wife and I would rather pay a little extra for good care over the poorly run daycares in our area.
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Had some good chats with a colleague while we were travelling together. 30ish year old woman. Some highlights:
- Secretly planning on taking a sabbatical this summer to travel across Eastern Europe with her boyfriend. One last "hurrah" before they start trying for kids. Her brother is going to oversee the rental of their apartment as an Airbnb. They've been saving for years to pull this off.
- Planning on staying in said (downtown) apartment when they have kids for as long as possible. She has nightmare stories about friends with kids who commute horrible distances and wants no part of it.
- 99% of her Christmas gifts will be homemade, and they sound lovely (especially the chutneys!).
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I mentioned to my salesmen that I was thinking of getting a new phone as mine is a few years old and has some issues. Nothing major, but as 80% of its usage is for business, I don't mind spending the money for a new phone. My salesmen pointed out that his phone is 6 years old. I had to smile at that.
One of my coworkers had the same phone for 8-9 years up until about 3 years ago. He was hoping to make it to a decade on the same device, but after he missed an email that asked to reschedule a sales call (he was the salesperson) he changed his mind. Similar to your situation, I have a nice phone because it makes work travel a lot more productive.
Any recommendations? I'm an Android fan, though may consider an Iphone because Facetime is becoming a valuable tool for my salesmen. I am going to start researching phones, I currently have a Nexus 5 that's about 2 years old.
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Any recommendations? I'm an Android fan, though may consider an Iphone because Facetime is becoming a valuable tool for my salesmen. I am going to start researching phones, I currently have a Nexus 5 that's about 2 years old.
Google Hangouts does the same thing as facetime.
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Any recommendations? I'm an Android fan, though may consider an Iphone because Facetime is becoming a valuable tool for my salesmen. I am going to start researching phones, I currently have a Nexus 5 that's about 2 years old.
Google Hangouts does the same thing as facetime.
Yes, but most people refuse to use them.
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Any recommendations? I'm an Android fan, though may consider an Iphone because Facetime is becoming a valuable tool for my salesmen. I am going to start researching phones, I currently have a Nexus 5 that's about 2 years old.
Google Hangouts does the same thing as facetime.
Yes, but most people refuse to use them.
I have had issues with google hangouts not working or sending texts sometimes, so I made my husband restore the prior texting app on my google phone
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I have one!
I work in a school in China and everyone has two year contracts. Most people stay for two or for years then move on. When I found out that one guy was leaving, I asked what his plans were. The usual answers are go home or go to another foreign country to teach. His answer? Retire! Fuck yeah!
He's 39 and has two houses back home, will live in one and live off the rental of the other plus his investments. Maybe pick up some part time cushty work if he feels like it.
I was super excited, I've read all about early retirees but never actually met one, and most people at my work are clueless with money, great to know there's another secret saver around.
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I had 2 students who have been asking me about financial stuff come up and show me how they are saving to start a Vanguard account! one showed me an app that projected rates of return and compound over years. when I put in more realistic numbers (she was at 1% a year) you could see her light up.
they are so excited about it they may start a school Investment Club to get others involved. that's pretty exciting!
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I overheard a group of CWs discussing the recent holiday. Two of them have kids, two don't. The two that have kids were talking about how expensive the holiday was and how long it will take them to pay it off. The ones without kids chimed in with how their families did maybe one small gift per person and looking back as adults how they wished their parents hadn't spent so much money on them as kids.
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This is slightly ambiguous. Are they talking about First Class seats vs. Economy seats? Or are they talking about Delta vs. Spirit Air? Because I have saved $150 on a flight before by flying Spirit. I will not be doing that again.
Sorry for the ambiguity. I meant a budget airline. I am not from N. America and I have no idea who Delta or Spirit Air is.
Delta is a major US airline, and IMHO it is the nicest--that being said, the prices really aren't any different than the other major airlines. For that matter, the flights are really about the same as well--the "other major airlines" in this scenario being United and American.
Spirit Airlines is a budget airline. Actually, that is not fair to airlines. Spirit Airlines is the Dollar Store of the skies. Or maybe the portable-toilet-of the skies. I will never fly Spirit Air again, and it has even scared me into staying away from the other budget airlines. Just not worth it.
HAHAHAHAHA!!! A friend recently flew Spirit and had the same opinion. It was apparently a HORRIBLE experience! Sometimes in life, you do get what you pay for!
Spirit is horrible. I am a normal-large sized man (6'1", 230lbs), with what appears to be a normal length femur, and I could not fit in the seat. The distance between my seat and the seat in front of me was not long enough to accommodate my leg. I had to spent the 2.5 hour flight (twice) with my knee uncomfortably jammed against the seat and partially sticking into the aisle. Excess leg room is a luxury, but it should be large enough to actually accommodate my leg imo. I will never fly spirit again.
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Spirit is horrible. I am a normal-large sized man (6'1", 230lbs), with what appears to be a normal length femur, and I could not fit in the seat.
This sucks, but keep in mind that "comfort in economy seats on planes" is probably the only thing in life that short people have over you.
For everything else, it's better for you to be tall. Here, you can probably even afford 1st class seats with all that additional money you make compared to me ;) : http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/05/the-financial-perks-of-being-tall/393518/
(just kidding though, it sucks especially if this was a long flight)
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This sucks, but keep in mind that "comfort in economy seats on planes" is probably the only thing in life that short people have over you.
For everything else, it's better for you to be tall.
You've clearly never needed to purchase trousers with a 38" inseam.
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This sucks, but keep in mind that "comfort in economy seats on planes" is probably the only thing in life that short people have over you.
For everything else, it's better for you to be tall.
You've clearly never needed to purchase trousers with a 38" inseam.
ha ha ha!
My college boyfriend wore a 34W-38Inseam. They were hard to find.
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36W x 36L isn't too bad. 38L would be a pain. But the worst for me was 28W x 34L. I just wore shorts for a couple of years.
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But the worst for me was 28W x 34L. I just wore shorts for a couple of years.
Couldn't you just eat more chocolate ?
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5,000 calories a day was just enough to keep me steady. I could eat all the chocolate I wanted, and I still didn't gain weight!
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5,000 calories a day was just enough to keep me steady. I could eat all the chocolate I wanted, and I still didn't gain weight!
I assume you are now in a federal witness protection program, hiding from the nation's women?
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Co-worker (used to be the boss, but got bought out by two younger guys) says to me one day "It's not how much you make, it's how much you spend." Oh hell yah! I told him how very few people actually get that. He still carries an old flip phone and doesn't know how to text. My kind of guy.
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Went to a work sponsored 401K seminar today held by our 401K admin company (Fidelity). Really encouraging presentation - good advice on asset allocation and long term stock holding. They even had budget worksheets where the recommended savings rate was 20% of income!
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I just quit my job in order to do something else.
My previous manager (bosses boss) in our conversation basically said "good for you, it takes courage to do that" and had an incredibly insightful understanding into why it's important to not become bored/complacent with your life, even if you have great job security.
Then sent me this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUTL4Op56CM) about a guy who quit his job and bicycled 7000 miles, because he realized how short life is and how wasting it being bored and "checked out" is super interested in avoiding that.
The previous manager more or less paraphrased that in explaining why he thought it was the right thing for me to do (to leave his team). I thought this was mind blowingly insightful and understanding. Makes me (almost) wish I had stuck around ;)
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I just quit my job in order to do something else.
My previous manager (bosses boss) in our conversation basically said "good for you, it takes courage to do that" and had an incredibly insightful understanding into why it's important to not become bored/complacent with your life, even if you have great job security.
Then sent me this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUTL4Op56CM) about a guy who quit his job and bicycled 7000 miles, because he realized how short life is and how wasting it being bored and "checked out" is super interested in avoiding that.
The previous manager more or less paraphrased that in explaining why he thought it was the right thing for me to do (to leave his team). I thought this was mind blowingly insightful and understanding. Makes me (almost) wish I had stuck around ;)
Wow, awesome video.
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I overheard someone talking about a 6-month emergency fund during our open enrollment meeting today.
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Ran into a random lady on the elevator whose coworker was telling her about his $100K car he just bought and $2300 driving course. Her mind was blown that someone would spend that much money on a car that pricy.
"I just want a car that gets me from point A to B."
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I have a co-worker whose father made her husband read "The Wealthy Barber" after he proposed to her. Father wanted to make sure the future husband had some sense when it came to money. They are within a few years of retirement now...
That being said, I had some trouble coming up with a good one for this thread. I have a few good stories about anti-mustachianisms...
awesome!
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Coworker: I'm gonna go get my sandwiches from the fridge. I'm not paying for that expensive crap downstairs anymore. I'm tired of it.
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I just started a new job, and most people there pack lunches, which is really nice!
Also, I mentioned to a young kid (22) that I'm a bit obsessed with personal finance, getting out of debt, investing, etc., and that if you get me started on those subjects I can go on and on. Well he thought that was cool and plans to pick my brain! Good for him being so young!
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Not work-related, but the husband of a friend of mine who I thought was a little slow the first dozen times I met him posted last night that he finished reading "The Millionaire Next Door," and it has opened his eyes towards finances. I'm glad to hear this.
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The first officer I'm flying with is nearing his one year anniversary with our company, which is when employees begin to receive 401k matching, so I mentioned he should make sure he has it set up so he doesn't miss out on free money. He said he's already contributing 20%. Whoa! Never heard that from a first year first officer.
He has also mentioned that he doesn't really have a permanent home, but is instead couch surfing with various friends and relatives, and hopes to do it for another year to get his student loans paid off.
That's some serious badassity considering first year pay is typically low $30k range and flying lessons aren't cheap.
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Went to Home depot first and they told me to get a plumber in!!! I think I just got lucky in Lowes..
Its always hit or miss at HD and Lowes. Same at the auto parts stores too. A portion of the clerks know something. I always hope to get one of them.
We used to have an old Mom 'n Pop auto parts store. Those guys had been selling auto parts for 30 years+. You needed a fuel pump for your '62 Studebaker? He knew it on sight and might even have one in stock. ;) Unfortunately cheap won out over good and they went out of business and the discount stores took over. Those guys scattered to the winds.
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I was chatting with a coworker about the 401K. I asked if she was going to increase her contribution and she said no, she already maxes it. She is, however, very excited that she can increase her contribution when she turns 50 later this year and bummed that she has to wait until her birthday.
Based on this conversation and a few others, along with her husband's 15 year old car, I'm pretty sure her household has mine beat on the frugality side of things. She and her husband can retire in their early 50s, though I can't tell if they will or if they'll keep at it just because they enjoy working.
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Campus story here. My lab partner is a college senior, early 20s. I asked if he knew what he wanted to do. "Yes. Aspire to live as simply as possible."
Ah! No wonder we get along. Lead to great conversation about the real world outside academia. Breath of fresh air.
Later I said I was hoping to grocery shop on my day off and he talked about knowing he'd be really busy for a few weeks so he stocked up and is living off PBJ... But he splurged and got the healthy kinds.
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Coworker told me today that she's finally glad to have a job that she earns enough to pay all her bills.
She makes $60,000 per year.
Holy sweet jesus I live on a fourth of that.
This is on the wrong thread.
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Campus story here. My lab partner is a college senior, early 20s. I asked if he knew what he wanted to do. "Yes. Aspire to live as simply as possible."
Ah! No wonder we get along. Lead to great conversation about the real world outside academia. Breath of fresh air.
Later I said I was hoping to grocery shop on my day off and he talked about knowing he'd be really busy for a few weeks so he stocked up and is living off PBJ... But he splurged and got the healthy kinds.
Marry him now.
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Campus story here. My lab partner is a college senior, early 20s. I asked if he knew what he wanted to do. "Yes. Aspire to live as simply as possible."
Ah! No wonder we get along. Lead to great conversation about the real world outside academia. Breath of fresh air.
Later I said I was hoping to grocery shop on my day off and he talked about knowing he'd be really busy for a few weeks so he stocked up and is living off PBJ... But he splurged and got the healthy kinds.
Marry him now.
Invite him over so you can grind his nut butter
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Campus story here. My lab partner is a college senior, early 20s. I asked if he knew what he wanted to do. "Yes. Aspire to live as simply as possible."
Ah! No wonder we get along. Lead to great conversation about the real world outside academia. Breath of fresh air.
Later I said I was hoping to grocery shop on my day off and he talked about knowing he'd be really busy for a few weeks so he stocked up and is living off PBJ... But he splurged and got the healthy kinds.
Marry him now.
Invite him over so you can grind his nut butter
Invite yourself over to his place, fuck him, and when he's asleep, steal his fancy peanut butter and run away.
Didnt you sign an NDA for the second part of The Ex??
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One of our admins was saying "I know this is crazy, but I just paid cash for the car. It's so nice to not have a car payment." I told her I had paid cash for my car too, and she said she didn't know anyone else who had done that.
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One of our admins was saying "I know this is crazy, but I just paid cash for the car. It's so nice to not have a car payment." I told her I had paid cash for my car too, and she said she didn't know anyone else who had done that.
At my last job, my boss kept mocking my car (a 2011 honda fit that runs perfectly, is great on gas, and fulfills all our needs), and saying that everyone else had a nicer car than I did. I just said 'I have no car payments. Do you know anyone else in this company with a nicer car who can say that?' He shut up. (He was commuting through 1.5 hours of rush-hour traffic in an SUV, and I believe he recently declared bankruptcy, so... yeah.)
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Went to Home depot first and they told me to get a plumber in!!! I think I just got lucky in Lowes..
Its always hit or miss at HD and Lowes. Same at the auto parts stores too. A portion of the clerks know something. I always hope to get one of them.
We used to have an old Mom 'n Pop auto parts store. Those guys had been selling auto parts for 30 years+. You needed a fuel pump for your '62 Studebaker? He knew it on sight and might even have one in stock. ;) Unfortunately cheap won out over good and they went out of business and the discount stores took over. Those guys scattered to the winds.
I went to Home Depot and asked where the lye was. Actual response from clerk, "You want to tell lies?" Finally got someone to take me to the right part of the plumbing department...
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Went to Home depot first and they told me to get a plumber in!!! I think I just got lucky in Lowes..
Its always hit or miss at HD and Lowes. Same at the auto parts stores too. A portion of the clerks know something. I always hope to get one of them.
We used to have an old Mom 'n Pop auto parts store. Those guys had been selling auto parts for 30 years+. You needed a fuel pump for your '62 Studebaker? He knew it on sight and might even have one in stock. ;) Unfortunately cheap won out over good and they went out of business and the discount stores took over. Those guys scattered to the winds.
I went to Home Depot and asked where the lye was. Actual response from clerk, "You want to tell lies?" Finally got someone to take me to the right part of the plumbing department...
This reminds me of searching for barley in both the grocery stores in my old town. I had to explain that it was a dried grain, looked similar to rice. It might be in a box, kind of like pasta. Or a bag like rice. "What do you want it for? Are you making beer?" Uh. No. They didn't carry it.
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Went to Home depot first and they told me to get a plumber in!!! I think I just got lucky in Lowes..
Its always hit or miss at HD and Lowes. Same at the auto parts stores too. A portion of the clerks know something. I always hope to get one of them.
We used to have an old Mom 'n Pop auto parts store. Those guys had been selling auto parts for 30 years+. You needed a fuel pump for your '62 Studebaker? He knew it on sight and might even have one in stock. ;) Unfortunately cheap won out over good and they went out of business and the discount stores took over. Those guys scattered to the winds.
I went to Home Depot and asked where the lye was. Actual response from clerk, "You want to tell lies?" Finally got someone to take me to the right part of the plumbing department...
This reminds me of searching for barley in both the grocery stores in my old town. I had to explain that it was a dried grain, looked similar to rice. It might be in a box, kind of like pasta. Or a bag like rice. "What do you want it for? Are you making beer?" Uh. No. They didn't carry it.
I always thought beef barley soup was pretty common
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I have no idea what one does with barely. lol
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I have no idea what one does with barely. lol
Cook it (erm... like rice, but longer - it's got more texture) and use it in a grain salad (add dried cranberries, a bit of feta, parsley, whatever tasty-looking crunchy veg you've got lying around) and add a vinaigrette (I like lemon, mustard, oil, but really, any vinaigrette will work).
Toss a handful or two of dried barley into a pot of soup (at least 30 minutes before you think it should be done) to add bulk and texture.
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I have no idea what one does with barely. lol
I have only the very slimmest, meager idea, almost no idea at all in fact.
Unless it's what you use to brew American beer ?
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I have no idea what one does with barely. lol
I have only the very slimmest, meager idea, almost no idea at all in fact.
Unless it's what you use to brew American beer ?
You dump it in stew. It's not really a complex procedure :-).
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I have no idea what one does with barely. lol
I have only the very slimmest, meager idea, almost no idea at all in fact.
Unless it's what you use to brew American beer ?
It's OK nobodyspecial. I thought your joke was funny. ;) Very astute of you to pick up on the typo. I didn't notice it until you pointed it out.
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Started a recent job.
Of my small team of 3, two of us are very Mustachian and the third has referenced articles (presumably sent to him by the third). The third also bikes to work. I might have sent him MMM articles a few years ago... :-)
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I was chatting with a coworker about the 401K. I asked if she was going to increase her contribution and she said no, she already maxes it. She is, however, very excited that she can increase her contribution when she turns 50 later this year and bummed that she has to wait until her birthday.
I'm pretty sure you can increase it in the calendar year you turn 50 and not have to wait for your birthday; at least that's how it is in my company. You should have her check with the benefits department or HR.
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I was chatting with a coworker about the 401K. I asked if she was going to increase her contribution and she said no, she already maxes it. She is, however, very excited that she can increase her contribution when she turns 50 later this year and bummed that she has to wait until her birthday.
I'm pretty sure you can increase it in the calendar year you turn 50 and not have to wait for your birthday; at least that's how it is in my company. You should have her check with the benefits department or HR.
I believe that's true. But even if not, why wouldn't she increase contributions to hit her $18k (or so she thought) max by her bday, then finish out the extra contributions after her bday? Either way is doesn't make sense to me to keep on pace to hit $18k when you believe that your year end max is going to be $24k.
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I have no idea what one does with barely. lol
I have only the very slimmest, meager idea, almost no idea at all in fact.
Unless it's what you use to brew American beer ?
It's OK nobodyspecial. I thought your joke was funny. ;) Very astute of you to pick up on the typo. I didn't notice it until you pointed it out.
lololol - that's pretty funny. I did not catch the typo either.
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I was chatting with a coworker about the 401K. I asked if she was going to increase her contribution and she said no, she already maxes it. She is, however, very excited that she can increase her contribution when she turns 50 later this year and bummed that she has to wait until her birthday.
I'm pretty sure you can increase it in the calendar year you turn 50 and not have to wait for your birthday; at least that's how it is in my company. You should have her check with the benefits department or HR.
I believe that's true. But even if not, why wouldn't she increase contributions to hit her $18k (or so she thought) max by her bday, then finish out the extra contributions after her bday? Either way is doesn't make sense to me to keep on pace to hit $18k when you believe that your year end max is going to be $24k.
You're likely splitting hairs with someone like this.
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I was chatting with a coworker about the 401K. I asked if she was going to increase her contribution and she said no, she already maxes it. She is, however, very excited that she can increase her contribution when she turns 50 later this year and bummed that she has to wait until her birthday.
I'm pretty sure you can increase it in the calendar year you turn 50 and not have to wait for your birthday; at least that's how it is in my company. You should have her check with the benefits department or HR.
I believe that's true. But even if not, why wouldn't she increase contributions to hit her $18k (or so she thought) max by her bday, then finish out the extra contributions after her bday? Either way is doesn't make sense to me to keep on pace to hit $18k when you believe that your year end max is going to be $24k.
You're likely splitting hairs with someone like this.
You might also be letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. She's maxing her account, for Pete's sake! If you care enough to post here, why don't you call HR yourself? If the answer is yes, both of you will benefit from that knowledge.
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I was chatting with a coworker about the 401K. I asked if she was going to increase her contribution and she said no, she already maxes it. She is, however, very excited that she can increase her contribution when she turns 50 later this year and bummed that she has to wait until her birthday.
I'm pretty sure you can increase it in the calendar year you turn 50 and not have to wait for your birthday; at least that's how it is in my company. You should have her check with the benefits department or HR.
I believe that's true. But even if not, why wouldn't she increase contributions to hit her $18k (or so she thought) max by her bday, then finish out the extra contributions after her bday? Either way is doesn't make sense to me to keep on pace to hit $18k when you believe that your year end max is going to be $24k.
You're likely splitting hairs with someone like this.
You might also be letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. She's maxing her account, for Pete's sake! If you care enough to post here, why don't you call HR yourself? If the answer is yes, both of you will benefit from that knowledge.
But she's not actually maxing out her account. No need to call HR, you can check with the IRS website. Even if you don't believe that though, there's still no reason to actually wait for your bday to adjust your contributions higher.
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One of my younger co-workers mentioned wanting to find a financial planner. I referred her to the fee-only guy who first showed me the MMM website.
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We just hired a new CFO. I overheard my boss gossiping with the Treasury director about how she brings her own lunch. They were impressed, as am I.
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One of my co-workers is reading Extreme Early Retirement...
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One of my co-workers is reading Extreme Early Retirement...
Niceeeee
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Just started a new job, and while we go for afternoon walks when someone wants to grab a smoothie (like, 5 of us go and one person gets a smoothie, just to stretch our legs), my project manager mentioned the other day in Starbucks that she calculated how much she's saving not going there anymore and she's so glad she stopped. I pointed out that my lunch is me copying Starbuck's fruit & cheese box, and she said she noticed my block of cheese in the fridge. Turns out she's trying to minimize food spending and stocks up when she visits the relatives' farm.
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One of my co-workers is reading Extreme Early Retirement...
Niceeeee
(http://i.imgur.com/XJyemeI.jpg)
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I walked into a conversation today where 3 people aged 26-45 were talking a 22 year out of buying a house with some buddy's of his. Gotta love it when people are giving good advice to the younger ones!
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Today I heard my coworkers talking about the 401k. I just started and haven't found out the details yet, so my ears perked up.
CW1: but what if it goes down?
CW2: buy more VTI!
CW2 was saying it doesn't super matter if you have a risky allocation right now, since we're all young and will be rolling our 401ks over to something else in a few years, next time we change jobs.
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I overheard my co worker cancelling her cable subscription :) I also saw a guy put his 10yr old Nokia on the table in a meeting today (impressive that he both had the phone and didn't try to hide it).
Nothing wrong with a 3315, hard to get parts for today if you break it but. I just had to upgrade to a 301, damn thing has a camera in it.
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A couple days ago I told a coworker I was going to increase my 401k contribution and they said they were already maxing theirs out.
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A friend who is technically also a coworker came to a MMM Meetup today!! That counts, right?
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We have a relatively new hire at work, she is fresh out of college (and brilliant, in my opinion).
I had to hop on her computer while she was at lunch, and was happy to see her browser was open to a 401K enrollment page.
I had made a comment a week earlier that I'd wished I had a job that offered a 401K when I was her age.
Hopefully she went through with it and set it up.
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Posting to follow :)
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Posting to follow :)
You can just press the notify button on the lower right ( or the upper right if your are down under ;)
ps. Sorry, thought it did the same as the "new replies"
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Posting to follow :)
You can just press the notify button on the lower right ( or the upper right if your are down under ;)
Notify = email notifications only. Which I find frigging annoying and not very useful. Posting in a thread means it shows up in my Unread Replies list.
The bolded did make me snort though.
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Stopped by an after-work social and one of my co-workers was talking about a new car they had bought - around $38,000 worth of car.
I was sitting next to a new employee, a young lady, and I could tell she wasn't impressed. Got to talking to her and she's got a good head on her shoulders. She's already saving money and trying to ramp up her savings big time.
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Found out today that my 24-year-old coworker is saving 15% in her 401k!
I have coworkers in their 40s and 50s who don't save that much.
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My wife is a high school math and science teacher. Last year she was appalled to discover a lot of the kids had not idea how money and credit really work. She asked me to speak to a couple of classes that are mostly seniors about money management and financial independence and I did. The students were really receptive but even more exciting one of the other math teachers started talking to younger kids about managing money. Now there are several posters hanging in the halls listing good wealth building habits!
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This is awesome, congrats
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My wife is a high school math and science teacher. Last year she was appalled to discover a lot of the kids had not idea how money and credit really work. She asked me to speak to a couple of classes that are mostly seniors about money management and financial independence and I did. The students were really receptive but even more exciting one of the other math teachers started talking to younger kids about managing money. Now there are several posters hanging in the halls listing good wealth building habits!
This is great! One of the biggest failings of our school systems is that they do not teach practical, applied math like this. Make math something real and useful, not just abstract concepts.
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My wife is a high school math and science teacher. Last year she was appalled to discover a lot of the kids had not idea how money and credit really work. She asked me to speak to a couple of classes that are mostly seniors about money management and financial independence and I did. The students were really receptive but even more exciting one of the other math teachers started talking to younger kids about managing money. Now there are several posters hanging in the halls listing good wealth building habits!
This is great! One of the biggest failings of our school systems is that they do not teach practical, applied math like this. Make math something real and useful, not just abstract concepts.
Yeah, I've always liked math. I took 5 years of it in 4 years of high school including calculus and consumer math and it has definitely made my life better. None of those or any other class I took suggested the approach of "buying what makes you happier" rather than what "how much can you possibly spend" though. Seeing it on a kids school poster made my day.
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My wife is a high school math and science teacher. Last year she was appalled to discover a lot of the kids had not idea how money and credit really work. She asked me to speak to a couple of classes that are mostly seniors about money management and financial independence and I did. The students were really receptive but even more exciting one of the other math teachers started talking to younger kids about managing money. Now there are several posters hanging in the halls listing good wealth building habits!
This is great! One of the biggest failings of our school systems is that they do not teach practical, applied math like this. Make math something real and useful, not just abstract concepts.
Yeah, I've always liked math. I took 5 years of it in 4 years of high school including calculus and consumer math and it has definitely made my life better. None of those or any other class I took suggested the approach of "buying what makes you happier" rather than what "how much can you possibly spend" though. Seeing it on a kids school poster made my day.
You are a reminding me of a class in high school that talked about consumer saving. The take-away for me was this: it's not what you SAVE, it's what you SPEND. It doesn't MATTER if you save 50%. If you spend $50 on something, you just spent $50. It's better to spend LESS.
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My wife is a high school math and science teacher. Last year she was appalled to discover a lot of the kids had not idea how money and credit really work. She asked me to speak to a couple of classes that are mostly seniors about money management and financial independence and I did. The students were really receptive but even more exciting one of the other math teachers started talking to younger kids about managing money. Now there are several posters hanging in the halls listing good wealth building habits!
This is great! One of the biggest failings of our school systems is that they do not teach practical, applied math like this. Make math something real and useful, not just abstract concepts.
I often wanted to re-name math class to "money and power" class. I think it would boost attendance.
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I often wanted to re-name math class to "money and power" class. I think it would boost attendance.
That's a great idea.
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I often wanted to re-name math class to "money and power" class. I think it would boost attendance.
That's a great idea.
English would become "Manipulation, Mind Control, and Stand Up Comedy". History would become "Sex and Violence", Physics would become "Ballistics", Biology would become "Living things and forensics", Chemistry would become "Explosions", Science would become "Adventure", any foreign language would become "Espionage", Phys Ed would be "Weaponry and martial arts", Civics would become "Global Domination", and the Fine Arts classes would stay as they are.
Everyone would want to come to my school. It would be a training ground for future superheros. But aside from adding a small amount of practical stuff and focusing the classes more on the new topic to make them less boring, the content wouldn't really change.
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I often wanted to re-name math class to "money and power" class. I think it would boost attendance.
That's a great idea.
English would become "Manipulation, Mind Control, and Stand Up Comedy". History would become "Sex and Violence", Physics would become "Ballistics", Biology would become "Living things and forensics", Chemistry would become "Explosions", Science would become "Adventure", any foreign language would become "Espionage", Phys Ed would be "Weaponry and martial arts", Civics would become "Global Domination", and the Fine Arts classes would stay as they are.
Everyone would want to come to my school. It would be a training ground for future superheros. But aside from adding a small amount of practical stuff and focusing the classes more on the new topic to make them less boring, the content wouldn't really change.
That sounds amazing, but I think foreign languages is undersold here: it's really "Espionage and swearing".
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I often wanted to re-name math class to "money and power" class. I think it would boost attendance.
That's a great idea.
English would become "Manipulation, Mind Control, and Stand Up Comedy". History would become "Sex and Violence", Physics would become "Ballistics", Biology would become "Living things and forensics", Chemistry would become "Explosions", Science would become "Adventure", any foreign language would become "Espionage", Phys Ed would be "Weaponry and martial arts", Civics would become "Global Domination", and the Fine Arts classes would stay as they are.
Everyone would want to come to my school. It would be a training ground for future superheros. But aside from adding a small amount of practical stuff and focusing the classes more on the new topic to make them less boring, the content wouldn't really change.
I feel like you could get a chemistry / food thing in there too.
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I often wanted to re-name math class to "money and power" class. I think it would boost attendance.
That's a great idea.
English would become "Manipulation, Mind Control, and Stand Up Comedy". History would become "Sex and Violence", Physics would become "Ballistics", Biology would become "Living things and forensics", Chemistry would become "Explosions", Science would become "Adventure", any foreign language would become "Espionage", Phys Ed would be "Weaponry and martial arts", Civics would become "Global Domination", and the Fine Arts classes would stay as they are.
Everyone would want to come to my school. It would be a training ground for future superheros. But aside from adding a small amount of practical stuff and focusing the classes more on the new topic to make them less boring, the content wouldn't really change.
I feel like you could get a chemistry / food thing in there too.
fine arts (especially upper level) = Narcissism and Nudity
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I often wanted to re-name math class to "money and power" class. I think it would boost attendance.
That's a great idea.
English would become "Manipulation, Mind Control, and Stand Up Comedy". History would become "Sex and Violence", Physics would become "Ballistics", Biology would become "Living things and forensics", Chemistry would become "Explosions", Science would become "Adventure", any foreign language would become "Espionage", Phys Ed would be "Weaponry and martial arts", Civics would become "Global Domination", and the Fine Arts classes would stay as they are.
Everyone would want to come to my school. It would be a training ground for future superheros. But aside from adding a small amount of practical stuff and focusing the classes more on the new topic to make them less boring, the content wouldn't really change.
I feel like you could get a chemistry / food thing in there too.
fine arts (especially upper level) = Narcissism and Nudity
Bullshit and Legitimate Nudity?
(I speak as a career creative here...)
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I often wanted to re-name math class to "money and power" class. I think it would boost attendance.
That's a great idea.
English would become "Manipulation, Mind Control, and Stand Up Comedy". History would become "Sex and Violence", Physics would become "Ballistics", Biology would become "Living things and forensics", Chemistry would become "Explosions", Science would become "Adventure", any foreign language would become "Espionage", Phys Ed would be "Weaponry and martial arts", Civics would become "Global Domination", and the Fine Arts classes would stay as they are.
Everyone would want to come to my school. It would be a training ground for future superheros. But aside from adding a small amount of practical stuff and focusing the classes more on the new topic to make them less boring, the content wouldn't really change.
I feel like you could get a chemistry / food thing in there too.
fine arts (especially upper level) = Narcissism and Nudity
Bullshit and Legitimate Nudity?
(I speak as a career creative here...)
"Bullshit" is actually the title of a separate course formerly known as religious studies. It's because every religion out there thinks it's the right one, and the rest are bullshit. So if we're studying more than two religions, by definition it's going to be a majority-bullshit class.
The school would be called something awesome, like "TheGrimSqueaker's Academy of World Domination".
However, I refuse to separate geometry from algebra (in the Money and Power courses). It's an asinine way to try to teach math.
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I would prefer Religious Studies to be called something like "The Psychology of Hope".
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However, I refuse to separate geometry from algebra (in the Money and Power courses). It's an asinine way to try to teach math.
I feel that way about calculus and physics. Calculus made way more sense once I could see it applied in physics.
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And Stats made way more sense once I saw it applied to Biology.
However, I refuse to separate geometry from algebra (in the Money and Power courses). It's an asinine way to try to teach math.
I feel that way about calculus and physics. Calculus made way more sense once I could see it applied in physics.
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I finally have something for this thread!
One of my co-workers recently came back from a trip to Las Vegas with some friends, and while she had a great time, she said that by the end her friends were annoying her. When I asked why, she replied, "Because they can't budget and are horrible with their money!" Turns out her friends gambled all their money away and on the last day there my co-worker had to borrow them money so they could make it through the rest of the trip. Oh, and her friends took out a loan for this trip. They took out a loan, just to gamble it all away. Sad.
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fine arts (especially upper level) = Narcissism and Nudity
How about "Mostly Useless, Pretentious and Forgettable Shit"?
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Man, I'm never going to hit the other one.
We had a "home buying seminar" thing which was basically propaganda from realtors/bankers. My immediate team of three were listening but all of us just gave up and were laughing about how horrible the advice was. Since it was standard banker/realtor stuff.
Later last week another of my coworkers and I spent all of lunch talking about 529s vs normal investment accounts for kids. He's... 30? maybe 32? So presumably he knows what's up. Or at least cares.
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fine arts (especially upper level) = Narcissism and Nudity
How about "Mostly Useless, Pretentious and Forgettable Shit"?
Even Caravaggio's - three fat women and one small piece of gauze ?
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fine arts (especially upper level) = Narcissism and Nudity
How about "Mostly Useless, Pretentious and Forgettable Shit"?
Even Caravaggio's - three fat women and one small piece of gauze ?
Yeah, but that one has an urn in it. That's how you know it's art.
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fine arts (especially upper level) = Narcissism and Nudity
How about "Mostly Useless, Pretentious and Forgettable Shit"?
Even Caravaggio's - three fat women and one small piece of gauze ?
Yeah, but that one has an urn in it. That's how you know it's art.
I hoped somebody would get it ;-)
The people at work have caught on to all the Python and HitchHikers in-jokes in my projects, so I;m having to get more obscure.
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fine arts (especially upper level) = Narcissism and Nudity
How about "Mostly Useless, Pretentious and Forgettable Shit"?
Even Caravaggio's - three fat women and one small piece of gauze ?
Yeah, but that one has an urn in it. That's how you know it's art.
I hoped somebody would get it ;-)
The people at work have caught on to all the Python and HitchHikers in-jokes in my projects, so I;m having to get more obscure.
I only started Pratchett last year, even though I'm sure I would have loved them as a teen. I'm sure I get more of the jokes now than I would then, though. But I've had a pre-Easter lull and raided my husband's bookshelves and may have read three and a half Pratchetts in the last week...
If you're looking for obscure but rewarding private jokes to insert into conversation, may I suggest The Goodies? And now... A Walk in the Black Forest.
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fine arts (especially upper level) = Narcissism and Nudity
How about "Mostly Useless, Pretentious and Forgettable Shit"?
Even Caravaggio's - three fat women and one small piece of gauze ?
Yeah, but that one has an urn in it. That's how you know it's art.
I hoped somebody would get it ;-)
The people at work have caught on to all the Python and HitchHikers in-jokes in my projects, so I;m having to get more obscure.
I only started Pratchett last year, even though I'm sure I would have loved them as a teen. I'm sure I get more of the jokes now than I would then, though. But I've had a pre-Easter lull and raided my husband's bookshelves and may have read three and a half Pratchetts in the last week...
If you're looking for obscure but rewarding private jokes to insert into conversation, may I suggest The Goodies? And now... A Walk in the Black Forest.
*swoon* You are now officially my new Most Favourite Mustachian. Ecky THOOOMP!
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My coworkers and I spent today fixing our cars together. The three of us probably saved ~$800 in labor costs and had fun doing it. Does that count?
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I would prefer Religious Studies to be called something like "The Psychology of Hope".
Swap the "o" in Hope for a "y", and it will be an easier sell.
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Two months ago one of my subordinates announced he was buying a new truck and a house. After a couple weeks of all of us in the office opening his eyes to the hidden costs he wasn't considering he's still buying a house, but budgeting better for it and getting a used vehicle now. He's also sat down with me a couple times to talk about the finer points of the TSP and Vanguard. He's going to max his TSP this year and opening a Vanguard account to start buying VTSMX. I didn't tell him which fund to buy, he came to me with that name and asked if what he's doing makes sense. It's great to hear he's done the math and is taking his retirement planning more seriously.
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I had a twenty minute conversation with a sign vendor who wants to put up a sign in the county. We ended up discussing crummy jobs and I mentioned how essential it was to have a financial cushion. She agreed and said that while she and her husband had been through lean times, she never sacrificed her dignity for money.
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My wife is a high school math and science teacher. Last year she was appalled to discover a lot of the kids had not idea how money and credit really work. She asked me to speak to a couple of classes that are mostly seniors about money management and financial independence and I did. The students were really receptive but even more exciting one of the other math teachers started talking to younger kids about managing money. Now there are several posters hanging in the halls listing good wealth building habits!
This is great! One of the biggest failings of our school systems is that they do not teach practical, applied math like this. Make math something real and useful, not just abstract concepts.
Currently writing the curriculum for a financial modeling class, for next year. I would love some input. I teach HS math. Designing it for Seniors. Here is the Google.doc link if people would like to give any input.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1duEUYnocGgFdGUe_SA41oWBpDrSuXfa9sV6Lyi1dkPg/edit?usp=sharing
if I am not allowed to share the link let me know. I will remove it. I want to make this as extensive and useful as possible. Been pushing for this for the last 4 years. finally got the ok from district office. It's only a rough outline so far.
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Currently writing the curriculum for a financial modeling class, for next year. I would love some input. I teach HS math. Designing it for Seniors. Here is the Google.doc link if people would like to give any input.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1duEUYnocGgFdGUe_SA41oWBpDrSuXfa9sV6Lyi1dkPg/edit?usp=sharing
if I am not allowed to share the link let me know. I will remove it. I want to make this as extensive and useful as possible. Been pushing for this for the last 4 years. finally got the ok from district office. It's only a rough outline so far.
That's great to hear that your district is implementing it. I heard from my parents that my alma mater is thinking about adding a personal finance-type class to the HS requirements.
That's quite a list of topics you've got in that doc! There are a couple topics I didn't see on the list that might be worth adding:
1) Spending and lifestyle
2) Property taxes (that's a big one for us--our property taxes are nearly as much as our principal+interest!)
3) Retirement planning--"how much will I need?" the 4% rule, Social Security, pensions, etc
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Currently writing the curriculum for a financial modeling class, for next year. I would love some input. I teach HS math. Designing it for Seniors. Here is the Google.doc link if people would like to give any input.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1duEUYnocGgFdGUe_SA41oWBpDrSuXfa9sV6Lyi1dkPg/edit?usp=sharing
Lots of good material.
First - the order of the items is dead wrong. Cover topics they can immediately see themselves having to know. The paycheck lessons and the car buying, for example.
I would then add some stuff about people who have thought out of the box and accomplished things that others think are impossible (and therefore only whine about). ARebelSpy, MMM, NoMoreHarvardDebt, etc. Maybe some real people in your community if they present well.
Then, when you've got them with info that they know they can use and some real life examples to follow that show some exciting possibilities, then hit them with how to make it happen.
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A guy at work and I were talking about his family situation with me. The guy was telling me that he grew up poor in Egypt and one of his life dreams has been to own a BMW. He told me that he had saved up the cash to buy one, but decided to use the money elsewhere - then he pulled up his student loan account and showed me that he had recently made a $33,xxx payment and no longer owed them money.
He said he realized the $255 a month he was sending, they were only applying $4 to the principal.
Very proud of him for making the choice.
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Currently writing the curriculum for a financial modeling class, for next year. I would love some input. I teach HS math. Designing it for Seniors. Here is the Google.doc link if people would like to give any input.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1duEUYnocGgFdGUe_SA41oWBpDrSuXfa9sV6Lyi1dkPg/edit?usp=sharing
if I am not allowed to share the link let me know. I will remove it. I want to make this as extensive and useful as possible. Been pushing for this for the last 4 years. finally got the ok from district office. It's only a rough outline so far.
That's great to hear that your district is implementing it. I heard from my parents that my alma mater is thinking about adding a personal finance-type class to the HS requirements.
That's quite a list of topics you've got in that doc! There are a couple topics I didn't see on the list that might be worth adding:
1) Spending and lifestyle
Some of the class is being designed to fit the math curriculum. It's taken so long to get the class somewhat due to having to get the district to accept that I can add higher level math and not simply be a "consumer math" class that is balancing a checkbook as a senior. YES it is an extremely useful skill but the math would not be high level enough on that for a senior 4th year math class.
2) Property taxes (that's a big one for us--our property taxes are nearly as much as our principal+interest!)
Property taxes would fit in with the home buying/mortgage project. I was thinking of having them have a few options on houses and loan choices. They may have one in a low cost of living state and one very close by in a high. Houses in PA 20 minutes form my house have RE taxes about 3-4 times higher on similarly priced homes. Going so talk about all the costs involved in a home. HOA and Condo Fees are going to be discussed. My brothers condo fees in Austin were about $620 on a $300k condo, included trash, water, basic cable, but still a huge hit to the monthly cost.
3) Retirement planning--"how much will I need?" the 4% rule, Social Security, pensions, etc
I think the order will change and the stock information will be pushed later on and Credit will be first. With this I think the stock unit will include retirement planning and the true cost of everything. Going into management fee's and safe withdrawal rates. Also along with value of pensions, healthcare in retirement from a career.
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Currently writing the curriculum for a financial modeling class, for next year. I would love some input. I teach HS math. Designing it for Seniors. Here is the Google.doc link if people would like to give any input.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1duEUYnocGgFdGUe_SA41oWBpDrSuXfa9sV6Lyi1dkPg/edit?usp=sharing
Lots of good material.
First - the order of the items is dead wrong. Cover topics they can immediately see themselves having to know. The paycheck lessons and the car buying, for example.
I think you are right, I am thinking moving things around and the market will be later on with retirement savings. I want to grab them with Credit and the usefulness of good credit. I am trying to design an excel spreadsheet or find an app that would allow me to have a running "credit" score for them as students. They would design a "student score" and they would get negative marks for not performing the necessary work. Students with a high score would be eligible for EC or something on tests so that other students would see the benefits in their day to day. I want this to be an ongoing system the whole semester so I need to do it early. It also connects to car buying and everything else as a consumer.
I would then add some stuff about people who have thought out of the box and accomplished things that others think are impossible (and therefore only whine about). ARebelSpy, MMM, NoMoreHarvardDebt, etc. Maybe some real people in your community if they present well.
That's a good idea but again I need to find ways to keep this math related if I want to be able to keep it going and also help the students understand the math behind it. I spoke with a few friends who are entrepreneurs, bankers, car saleswomen, ect who would be interested in speaking with the class during those units. I personally have saved up and bought rental properties on a teachers salary that now makes more then teaching. So I have some experience myself and will be looking to bring in others.
Then, when you've got them with info that they know they can use and some real life examples to follow that show some exciting possibilities, then hit them with how to make it happen.
The class being a 4th year course in math needs to have a solid basis in mathematics. I have been fighting so long since the district doesn't want a "consumer math class" which would only have basic math functions and nothing higher level. I am looking to work in the system and deliver the information while still maintaining a high level of rigor in the math.
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Some of the class is being designed to fit the math curriculum. It's taken so long to get the class somewhat due to having to get the district to accept that I can add higher level math and not simply be a "consumer math" class that is balancing a checkbook as a senior. YES it is an extremely useful skill but the math would not be high level enough on that for a senior 4th year math class.
For those of us who took university-level calculus during junior year and no math at all senior year... could you explain what is regarded as "4th year senior-level math"? Because my brain was going "huh? But how could you even work calculus into a finance class? This doesn't make sense at all as senior math!" until I realized that there are some people who don't reach algebra until college (like my mom).
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Some of the class is being designed to fit the math curriculum. It's taken so long to get the class somewhat due to having to get the district to accept that I can add higher level math and not simply be a "consumer math" class that is balancing a checkbook as a senior. YES it is an extremely useful skill but the math would not be high level enough on that for a senior 4th year math class.
For those of us who took university-level calculus during junior year and no math at all senior year... could you explain what is regarded as "4th year senior-level math"? Because my brain was going "huh? But how could you even work calculus into a finance class? This doesn't make sense at all as senior math!" until I realized that there are some people who don't reach algebra until college (like my mom).
Oh don't worry. You can use calculus in a finance class. http://www.amazon.com/Stochastic-Calculus-Finance-Binomial-Springer/dp/0387249680 (http://www.amazon.com/Stochastic-Calculus-Finance-Binomial-Springer/dp/0387249680). But this isn't your run of the mill first year college calculus class. For a pdf including some of the actual math of stochastic calculus check out http://www.columbia.edu/~mh2078/stochastic_calculus.pdf (http://www.columbia.edu/~mh2078/stochastic_calculus.pdf)
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Some of the class is being designed to fit the math curriculum. It's taken so long to get the class somewhat due to having to get the district to accept that I can add higher level math and not simply be a "consumer math" class that is balancing a checkbook as a senior. YES it is an extremely useful skill but the math would not be high level enough on that for a senior 4th year math class.
For those of us who took university-level calculus during junior year and no math at all senior year... could you explain what is regarded as "4th year senior-level math"? Because my brain was going "huh? But how could you even work calculus into a finance class? This doesn't make sense at all as senior math!" until I realized that there are some people who don't reach algebra until college (like my mom).
This is more of a pathway for students not going into a STEM field. The district/state requires 4 credits in math. 1 of those must be taken during senior year. This class would be the equivalent of after Alg II or after Integrated III depending on when you went to school. basically there are GLE's (grade level expectations) we have to meet to cover the common core for each grade.
This class would not be moving into Calc. The class is more designed to give the students another option that they would be interested in. I am walking a tightrope of making it available and attainable for students of all abilities; while also pushing the students enough to be valuable as a math class beyond the Alg II level.
Hopefully that makes sense.
quick list of math involved would be:
Exponential functions (growth, depreciation)
Expected value and probability
Function operations, step functions, Compositions of functions, multi variable functions
linear programing
Modeling with linear, exponential, and other functions
much of the class will be logical thinking in finance using mathematics to back up your reasoning.
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Some of the class is being designed to fit the math curriculum. It's taken so long to get the class somewhat due to having to get the district to accept that I can add higher level math and not simply be a "consumer math" class that is balancing a checkbook as a senior. YES it is an extremely useful skill but the math would not be high level enough on that for a senior 4th year math class.
For those of us who took university-level calculus during junior year and no math at all senior year... could you explain what is regarded as "4th year senior-level math"? Because my brain was going "huh? But how could you even work calculus into a finance class? This doesn't make sense at all as senior math!" until I realized that there are some people who don't reach algebra until college (like my mom).
Oh don't worry. You can use calculus in a finance class. http://www.amazon.com/Stochastic-Calculus-Finance-Binomial-Springer/dp/0387249680 (http://www.amazon.com/Stochastic-Calculus-Finance-Binomial-Springer/dp/0387249680). But this isn't your run of the mill first year college calculus class. For a pdf including some of the actual math of stochastic calculus check out http://www.columbia.edu/~mh2078/stochastic_calculus.pdf (http://www.columbia.edu/~mh2078/stochastic_calculus.pdf)
The class is not directed so much for students who will be moving into calc in HS or college. Those students have a solid pathway into Honors Calc, AP Calc or AP stats. This is more fitting into a non-stem pathway for seniors. It may not be the best way to deliver financial literacy but it's the best way I have right now so I'm using this option to fit it into the curriculum and course catalog.
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fine arts (especially upper level) = Narcissism and Nudity
How about "Mostly Useless, Pretentious and Forgettable Shit"?
Even Caravaggio's - three fat women and one small piece of gauze ?
Yeah, but that one has an urn in it. That's how you know it's art.
I hoped somebody would get it ;-)
I was f******* ROFling :D
If you dont know, there is a twitter account with pratchett quotes. https://twitter.com/DailyPratchett
Regarding the school, I would rename history as "wars, intrigues and heroes, with blood" and home economics with "poisons and deadly microbes at home"
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This is more of a pathway for students not going into a STEM field. The district/state requires 4 credits in math. 1 of those must be taken during senior year. This class would be the equivalent of after Alg II or after Integrated III depending on when you went to school. basically there are GLE's (grade level expectations) we have to meet to cover the common core for each grade.
Hey, I was aiming for a Japanese major when I was in high school :P It's just that if you take Algebra I in 7th grade and keep going one level up each year, you run out of things to take that aren't calculus! (I didn't want to take calculus. I just ran into that "you must take a math class your junior year" thing. I avoided math senior year by dual-enrolling in community college to get history and sociology out of the way before going to university.)
quick list of math involved would be:
Exponential functions (growth, depreciation)
Expected value and probability
Function operations, step functions, Compositions of functions, multi variable functions
linear programing
Modeling with linear, exponential, and other functions
much of the class will be logical thinking in finance using mathematics to back up your reasoning.
Thanks. Algebra I in 7th grade also means I was going "wait, but exponential growth and other stuff for finance are like...middle school math..."
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This is more of a pathway for students not going into a STEM field. The district/state requires 4 credits in math. 1 of those must be taken during senior year. This class would be the equivalent of after Alg II or after Integrated III depending on when you went to school. basically there are GLE's (grade level expectations) we have to meet to cover the common core for each grade.
Hey, I was aiming for a Japanese major when I was in high school :P It's just that if you take Algebra I in 7th grade and keep going one level up each year, you run out of things to take that aren't calculus! (I didn't want to take calculus. I just ran into that "you must take a math class your junior year" thing. I avoided math senior year by dual-enrolling in community college to get history and sociology out of the way before going to university.)
Depends on the high school. My senior year I took multivariable calculus and about 1/3 of a differential equations class (it was supposed to be one semester each, but our teacher took it slow). And yes, I said teacher. This wasn't taught at some community college. It was taught by a high school teacher.
But yes, my high school was definitely the exception, not the rule.
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This is more of a pathway for students not going into a STEM field. The district/state requires 4 credits in math. 1 of those must be taken during senior year. This class would be the equivalent of after Alg II or after Integrated III depending on when you went to school. basically there are GLE's (grade level expectations) we have to meet to cover the common core for each grade.
Hey, I was aiming for a Japanese major when I was in high school :P It's just that if you take Algebra I in 7th grade and keep going one level up each year, you run out of things to take that aren't calculus! (I didn't want to take calculus. I just ran into that "you must take a math class your junior year" thing. I avoided math senior year by dual-enrolling in community college to get history and sociology out of the way before going to university.)
Depends on the high school. My senior year I took multivariable calculus and about 1/3 of a differential equations class (it was supposed to be one semester each, but our teacher took it slow). And yes, I said teacher. This wasn't taught at some community college. It was taught by a high school teacher.
But yes, my high school was definitely the exception, not the rule.
AP Calculus II was offered, but I don't have a friendly relationship with math, so as soon as I could get out of it, I did.
And then I changed majors from Japanese to Computer Science and thus went from "6 credits of math and/or science" (of which I had 4 from Calc I) to "9 credits of lab science plus Calc I & II." >_> So I took Calc II 3 years after Calc I and flailed mightily. And calc-based physics a year later, with more flailing. (Note: high school calc & physics taught me I'd way rather have calc-based physics than algebra-based, but it would've helped if I remembered calc)
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This is more of a pathway for students not going into a STEM field. The district/state requires 4 credits in math. 1 of those must be taken during senior year. This class would be the equivalent of after Alg II or after Integrated III depending on when you went to school. basically there are GLE's (grade level expectations) we have to meet to cover the common core for each grade.
Hey, I was aiming for a Japanese major when I was in high school :P It's just that if you take Algebra I in 7th grade and keep going one level up each year, you run out of things to take that aren't calculus! (I didn't want to take calculus. I just ran into that "you must take a math class your junior year" thing. I avoided math senior year by dual-enrolling in community college to get history and sociology out of the way before going to university.)
Depends on the high school. My senior year I took multivariable calculus and about 1/3 of a differential equations class (it was supposed to be one semester each, but our teacher took it slow). And yes, I said teacher. This wasn't taught at some community college. It was taught by a high school teacher.
But yes, my high school was definitely the exception, not the rule.
Yeah, my area (state?) does a lot of College in the High School classes instead of AP classes. High school teachers teach college subjects, somewhat following the curriculum of any nearby school. I took Calc and Stats with a great teacher. If there had been a big enough student population for advanced math (I had 12 students in calc and 16 in stats, soooo) I think my teach would have loved teaching higher level maths. But he spent most of his time teaching precalc and trig to juniors who were only there to fulfill their 3 years of math requirement.
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This is more of a pathway for students not going into a STEM field. The district/state requires 4 credits in math. 1 of those must be taken during senior year. This class would be the equivalent of after Alg II or after Integrated III depending on when you went to school. basically there are GLE's (grade level expectations) we have to meet to cover the common core for each grade.
Hey, I was aiming for a Japanese major when I was in high school :P It's just that if you take Algebra I in 7th grade and keep going one level up each year, you run out of things to take that aren't calculus! (I didn't want to take calculus. I just ran into that "you must take a math class your junior year" thing. I avoided math senior year by dual-enrolling in community college to get history and sociology out of the way before going to university.)
Depends on the high school. My senior year I took multivariable calculus and about 1/3 of a differential equations class (it was supposed to be one semester each, but our teacher took it slow). And yes, I said teacher. This wasn't taught at some community college. It was taught by a high school teacher.
But yes, my high school was definitely the exception, not the rule.
Yeah, my area (state?) does a lot of College in the High School classes instead of AP classes. High school teachers teach college subjects, somewhat following the curriculum of any nearby school. I took Calc and Stats with a great teacher. If there had been a big enough student population for advanced math (I had 12 students in calc and 16 in stats, soooo) I think my teach would have loved teaching higher level maths. But he spent most of his time teaching precalc and trig to juniors who were only there to fulfill their 3 years of math requirement.
Mine did both (and offered dual-enrollment at community college or vo-tech school). I couldn't make it into AP Calc I, but I could make it into Honors Calc I, which was college-in-hs. My college accepted transfer credits that were Cs but only AP 4&5 (B&A equivalents), so it was an easier class to get into, an easier class to take, and an easier system to get counted for credits. Sweet deal!
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This is more of a pathway for students not going into a STEM field. The district/state requires 4 credits in math. 1 of those must be taken during senior year. This class would be the equivalent of after Alg II or after Integrated III depending on when you went to school. basically there are GLE's (grade level expectations) we have to meet to cover the common core for each grade.
Hey, I was aiming for a Japanese major when I was in high school :P It's just that if you take Algebra I in 7th grade and keep going one level up each year, you run out of things to take that aren't calculus! (I didn't want to take calculus. I just ran into that "you must take a math class your junior year" thing. I avoided math senior year by dual-enrolling in community college to get history and sociology out of the way before going to university.)
Depends on the high school. My senior year I took multivariable calculus and about 1/3 of a differential equations class (it was supposed to be one semester each, but our teacher took it slow). And yes, I said teacher. This wasn't taught at some community college. It was taught by a high school teacher.
But yes, my high school was definitely the exception, not the rule.
AP Calculus II was offered, but I don't have a friendly relationship with math, so as soon as I could get out of it, I did.
And then I changed majors from Japanese to Computer Science and thus went from "6 credits of math and/or science" (of which I had 4 from Calc I) to "9 credits of lab science plus Calc I & II." >_> So I took Calc II 3 years after Calc I and flailed mightily. And calc-based physics a year later, with more flailing. (Note: high school calc & physics taught me I'd way rather have calc-based physics than algebra-based, but it would've helped if I remembered calc)
I believe you are mistaken on the AP part, as there's no AP math class beyond Calculus BC (which corresponds to a Calc I class in college). But that doesn't change the substance of your experience.
Haha do you enjoy CS now?
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This is more of a pathway for students not going into a STEM field. The district/state requires 4 credits in math. 1 of those must be taken during senior year. This class would be the equivalent of after Alg II or after Integrated III depending on when you went to school. basically there are GLE's (grade level expectations) we have to meet to cover the common core for each grade.
Hey, I was aiming for a Japanese major when I was in high school :P It's just that if you take Algebra I in 7th grade and keep going one level up each year, you run out of things to take that aren't calculus! (I didn't want to take calculus. I just ran into that "you must take a math class your junior year" thing. I avoided math senior year by dual-enrolling in community college to get history and sociology out of the way before going to university.)
Depends on the high school. My senior year I took multivariable calculus and about 1/3 of a differential equations class (it was supposed to be one semester each, but our teacher took it slow). And yes, I said teacher. This wasn't taught at some community college. It was taught by a high school teacher.
But yes, my high school was definitely the exception, not the rule.
AP Calculus II was offered, but I don't have a friendly relationship with math, so as soon as I could get out of it, I did.
And then I changed majors from Japanese to Computer Science and thus went from "6 credits of math and/or science" (of which I had 4 from Calc I) to "9 credits of lab science plus Calc I & II." >_> So I took Calc II 3 years after Calc I and flailed mightily. And calc-based physics a year later, with more flailing. (Note: high school calc & physics taught me I'd way rather have calc-based physics than algebra-based, but it would've helped if I remembered calc)
I believe you are mistaken on the AP part, as there's no AP math class beyond Calculus BC (which corresponds to a Calc I class in college). But that doesn't change the substance of your experience.
Haha do you enjoy CS now?
I graduated HS in 2008, so I may be mistaken...
Calc AB = Calc I
Calc BC = Calc II
I took AB in high school, and in college didn't cover anything in Calc II that was new to me until the last 3 weeks. And I was a Math major too.
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This is more of a pathway for students not going into a STEM field. The district/state requires 4 credits in math. 1 of those must be taken during senior year. This class would be the equivalent of after Alg II or after Integrated III depending on when you went to school. basically there are GLE's (grade level expectations) we have to meet to cover the common core for each grade.
Hey, I was aiming for a Japanese major when I was in high school :P It's just that if you take Algebra I in 7th grade and keep going one level up each year, you run out of things to take that aren't calculus! (I didn't want to take calculus. I just ran into that "you must take a math class your junior year" thing. I avoided math senior year by dual-enrolling in community college to get history and sociology out of the way before going to university.)
Depends on the high school. My senior year I took multivariable calculus and about 1/3 of a differential equations class (it was supposed to be one semester each, but our teacher took it slow). And yes, I said teacher. This wasn't taught at some community college. It was taught by a high school teacher.
But yes, my high school was definitely the exception, not the rule.
AP Calculus II was offered, but I don't have a friendly relationship with math, so as soon as I could get out of it, I did.
And then I changed majors from Japanese to Computer Science and thus went from "6 credits of math and/or science" (of which I had 4 from Calc I) to "9 credits of lab science plus Calc I & II." >_> So I took Calc II 3 years after Calc I and flailed mightily. And calc-based physics a year later, with more flailing. (Note: high school calc & physics taught me I'd way rather have calc-based physics than algebra-based, but it would've helped if I remembered calc)
I believe you are mistaken on the AP part, as there's no AP math class beyond Calculus BC (which corresponds to a Calc I class in college). But that doesn't change the substance of your experience.
Haha do you enjoy CS now?
I graduated HS in 2008, so I may be mistaken...
Calc AB = Calc I
Calc BC = Calc II
I took AB in high school, and in college didn't cover anything in Calc II that was new to me until the last 3 weeks. And I was a Math major too.
So I will confess that I never used these numbers - Calc I, Calc II, etc. All my math classes were engineering math classes and weren't called Calc I, Calc II, etc. They were just called Calculus (which would correspond to Calc II), Multvariable Calculus, Differential Equations, and Linear Algebra (not that linear algebra would ever be called a calculus class).
So my mistake.
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Haha do you enjoy CS now?
I got through one semester before my brain needed a break, so I took an algorithms class. (I took CS in high school for fun as well). I swapped majors sophomore year.
I dislike the industry enough to be on this board, but I like coding.
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Haha do you enjoy CS now?
I got through one semester before my brain needed a break, so I took an algorithms class. (I took CS in high school for fun as well). I swapped majors sophomore year.
I dislike the industry enough to be on this board, but I like coding.
Nice.
I really like coding, but not when the end goal is the actual program or software (I do research and I write programs all the time to compute my research results). Which would probably mean that I wouldn't like the industry either (but I haven't tried it so I can't say for certain).
ETA: Back on topic, my friend who recently started working full time here said so I can contribute 6% to my 401a (it's actually mandatory) and while that's good for now (he's been low on cash for the past six months or so), I feel like that's a pretty low contribution rate for retirement (he can't change his contribution rate for the 401a).
And I told him oh don't worry, you can contribute $18k each to a 403b and a 457b. Which is probably more than you can afford. So don't worry, there's plenty of contribution space!
And I've looked at the available funds in the plans. There are some low cost Fidelity Spartan funds in there.
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So I will confess that I never used these numbers - Calc I, Calc II, etc. All my math classes were engineering math classes and weren't called Calc I, Calc II, etc.
Well in engineering you probably used that calculus with real numbers and infinitely small divisions. Roman numeral calculus with only integers, and no zero, is triciker
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So I will confess that I never used these numbers - Calc I, Calc II, etc. All my math classes were engineering math classes and weren't called Calc I, Calc II, etc.
Well in engineering you probably used that calculus with real numbers and infinitely small divisions. Roman numeral calculus with only integers, and no zero, is triciker
Yeah but I also ended up integrating imaginary numbers in one of my engineering classes....
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So I will confess that I never used these numbers - Calc I, Calc II, etc. All my math classes were engineering math classes and weren't called Calc I, Calc II, etc.
Well in engineering you probably used that calculus with real numbers and infinitely small divisions. Roman numeral calculus with only integers, and no zero, is triciker
Yeah but I also ended up integrating imaginary numbers in one of my engineering classes....
Ahh, my nemesis. Complex variable calculus.
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A colleague who is probably in her late 30's or early 40's just announced that her family is moving to a foreign country for a few years. Neither spouse will be working during this time. I congratulated her and wished her well.
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Near-retirement aged guy in the cube behind mine: "I find it's easier to be a cheapskate than to worry about age." Good man.
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There's a coffee group at work. Rather than buy an individual coffee each, three of us split the costs of a container and we use a drip machine every morning. It's wonderful having coworkers who don't want to pay for Starbucks.
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There's a coffee group at work. Rather than buy an individual coffee each, three of us split the costs of a container and we use a drip machine every morning. It's wonderful having coworkers who don't want to pay for Starbucks.
I'm jealous of this. We have a coffee/water club at work. It's insanely expensive. I think it's $12 a month. I can use the water fountain for free and it's actually closer than the jugs of water. When did water fountains become so taboo? If my husband and I both joined the club, we would be spending $24 for water we can get for free and at least tripling the expense of coffee we can make at home. The coffee club doesn't allow outside coffee to be used in the machines and they vetoed my cheapo coffee maker and made me take it home. I just bring a cup of coffee from home in a really nice cup that keeps it hot for hours. I don't need that much coffee anyway.
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Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? We're not even really a group, we're just a bunch of people who need caffeine in the morning. It's not like you need to fill out an application or anything. And we get a container of the grocery store coffee that lasts for months. Our only problem is that some people like their coffee stronger than others.
Now, the water fountains are sketchy. Sometimes the water is brown and it always tastes bad. Work delivers water to us.
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There's a coffee group at work. Rather than buy an individual coffee each, three of us split the costs of a container and we use a drip machine every morning. It's wonderful having coworkers who don't want to pay for Starbucks.
I'm jealous of this. We have a coffee/water club at work. It's insanely expensive. I think it's $12 a month. I can use the water fountain for free and it's actually closer than the jugs of water. When did water fountains become so taboo? If my husband and I both joined the club, we would be spending $24 for water we can get for free and at least tripling the expense of coffee we can make at home. The coffee club doesn't allow outside coffee to be used in the machines and they vetoed my cheapo coffee maker and made me take it home. I just bring a cup of coffee from home in a really nice cup that keeps it hot for hours. I don't need that much coffee anyway.
What do you mean they made you take it home? I have my own fridge in my office, my coworker brings in her own blender. If I wanted to have a coffee pot in my cube, I could totally do it.
The new CEO was complaining about the coffee, so the other building has a Keurig now and those damn pods. At our bldg across the street, we voted to keep the plain old pot.
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There's a coffee group at work. Rather than buy an individual coffee each, three of us split the costs of a container and we use a drip machine every morning. It's wonderful having coworkers who don't want to pay for Starbucks.
I'm jealous of this. We have a coffee/water club at work. It's insanely expensive. I think it's $12 a month. I can use the water fountain for free and it's actually closer than the jugs of water. When did water fountains become so taboo? If my husband and I both joined the club, we would be spending $24 for water we can get for free and at least tripling the expense of coffee we can make at home. The coffee club doesn't allow outside coffee to be used in the machines and they vetoed my cheapo coffee maker and made me take it home. I just bring a cup of coffee from home in a really nice cup that keeps it hot for hours. I don't need that much coffee anyway.
That's not a coffee club, that's a coffee union. If they actually have the power to control or "veto" what you do or don't bring to work, so as to force you to business with them, there's something very sick about your workplace.
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There's a coffee group at work. Rather than buy an individual coffee each, three of us split the costs of a container and we use a drip machine every morning. It's wonderful having coworkers who don't want to pay for Starbucks.
I'm jealous of this. We have a coffee/water club at work. It's insanely expensive. I think it's $12 a month. I can use the water fountain for free and it's actually closer than the jugs of water. When did water fountains become so taboo? If my husband and I both joined the club, we would be spending $24 for water we can get for free and at least tripling the expense of coffee we can make at home. The coffee club doesn't allow outside coffee to be used in the machines and they vetoed my cheapo coffee maker and made me take it home. I just bring a cup of coffee from home in a really nice cup that keeps it hot for hours. I don't need that much coffee anyway.
What do you mean they made you take it home? I have my own fridge in my office, my coworker brings in her own blender. If I wanted to have a coffee pot in my cube, I could totally do it.
The new CEO was complaining about the coffee, so the other building has a Keurig now and those damn pods. At our bldg across the street, we voted to keep the plain old pot.
Astounding, to have a CEO's salary and not be able to afford overpriced coffee for your own office. Tsk! Tsk!
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Man, I believe that potable water is a right for work places, especially if you have a warehouse full of men that work their butts off ensuring that orders get out on time, or are willing to unload a container in under an hour to avoid being billed for the driver's time.
We have a water fountain but it is nasty as shit. It wasn't all that costly to get a good water cooler, found it on craig's list, and because I am a frugal person, I go to the grocery store whenever we are running low and fill up a bunch of 5 gallon jugs for 39 cents a gallon. The grocery store on the way to my office has two filters so it doesn't take all that long, and if I am truly lazy, I can have a guy from the warehouse haul it from my car, but to date, I haven't yet requested help.
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Mustachian:
I hate spending money on clothes, I never buy new clothes!
Anti:
Instead I don't mind spunking $100 on a meal, that's definitely worth it!
I thought I had an ally at work for a split second!
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My boss and I were discussing strategies for maxing out 401k contributions given annual bonuses, Q2 pay increases, and our company's policy of only contributing their 3% match on a per pay period basis. (We have to contribute 6% per pay period to get the match, meaning we have to make the contribution every pay period of the year to get the full match.). I offered up the calculator spreadsheet I made, and he said he'd love to have it. Then I offered it to one of my employees whom I know maximizes his contribution, and he wants it also. So, we have some savers around here!
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Mustachian:
I hate spending money on clothes, I never buy new clothes!
Anti:
Instead I don't mind spunking $100 on a meal, that's definitely worth it!
I thought I had an ally at work for a split second!
I would have no regrets spending $100 on a good meal in Shanghai. yummy!
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Mustachian:
I hate spending money on clothes, I never buy new clothes!
Anti:
Instead I don't mind spunking $100 on a meal, that's definitely worth it!
I thought I had an ally at work for a split second!
I would have no regrets spending $100 on a good meal in Shanghai. yummy!
Yeah I don't spend a ton of money when going out, so if I am spending $100 I imagine it's going to be an experience. I know $100 isn't enough for a meal at Alinea or French Laundry, but there are bound to be some amazing tasting course meals that can be swung for $100 (including tax and gratuity).
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Mustachian:
I hate spending money on clothes, I never buy new clothes!
Anti:
Instead I don't mind spunking $100 on a meal, that's definitely worth it!
I thought I had an ally at work for a split second!
I would have no regrets spending $100 on a good meal in Shanghai. yummy!
Yeah I don't spend a ton of money when going out, so if I am spending $100 I imagine it's going to be an experience. I know $100 isn't enough for a meal at Alinea or French Laundry, but there are bound to be some amazing tasting course meals that can be swung for $100 (including tax and gratuity).
Yeah $100 would get you most things in Shanghai. I just find it hard to justify it when I can eat out for $20-30 and it is still amazingly tasty! Even harder to justify when I can eat tasty Chinese food for about $2-3 :-p
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Mustachian:
I hate spending money on clothes, I never buy new clothes!
Anti:
Instead I don't mind spunking $100 on a meal, that's definitely worth it!
I thought I had an ally at work for a split second!
I would have no regrets spending $100 on a good meal in Shanghai. yummy!
Yeah I don't spend a ton of money when going out, so if I am spending $100 I imagine it's going to be an experience. I know $100 isn't enough for a meal at Alinea or French Laundry, but there are bound to be some amazing tasting course meals that can be swung for $100 (including tax and gratuity).
Yeah $100 would get you most things in Shanghai. I just find it hard to justify it when I can eat out for $20-30 and it is still amazingly tasty! Even harder to justify when I can eat tasty Chinese food for about $2-3 :-p
I agree, but for $100 I would be going out for an experience. Something that you think about for a long time. I remember a meal I had in Vegas that cost me $65 for food, tip, tax, and a martini. I was able to expense (I am very cheap generally so occasional splurge) and it is a meal I still think about. When I was bemoaning about the expense a few days later with a colleague he remarked, "You're still talking about how good it was, sounds like it was worth the expense."
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Mustachian:
I hate spending money on clothes, I never buy new clothes!
Anti:
Instead I don't mind spunking $100 on a meal, that's definitely worth it!
I thought I had an ally at work for a split second!
I would have no regrets spending $100 on a good meal in Shanghai. yummy!
Yeah I don't spend a ton of money when going out, so if I am spending $100 I imagine it's going to be an experience. I know $100 isn't enough for a meal at Alinea or French Laundry, but there are bound to be some amazing tasting course meals that can be swung for $100 (including tax and gratuity).
Yeah $100 would get you most things in Shanghai. I just find it hard to justify it when I can eat out for $20-30 and it is still amazingly tasty! Even harder to justify when I can eat tasty Chinese food for about $2-3 :-p
I agree, but for $100 I would be going out for an experience. Something that you think about for a long time. I remember a meal I had in Vegas that cost me $65 for food, tip, tax, and a martini. I was able to expense (I am very cheap generally so occasional splurge) and it is a meal I still think about. When I was bemoaning about the expense a few days later with a colleague he remarked, "You're still talking about how good it was, sounds like it was worth the expense."
Co-worker has a point.
I can think of a few times in the past 15 years where I've spent upwards of 60$/person on a meal (... like, maybe 5-6 times, total). I remember each of those meals, and OMG so excellent, and my husband and I will still be like 'remember that meal in Paris?' (150$/person, and 6 years later I still start salivating when I think about the cheese plate).
It's not an every day expense. Or an every month expense. Or, hell, an every year expense. But... rough numbers? In the end, we're talking less than 40$/year on stupidly expensive meals, with MASSIVE enjoyment, and great memories. Definitely wouldn't do it every week, but there are worse things to spend 40$/year on, y'know?
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My coworker was pondering summer activities for her 10 year old son. She said, "I know! We have an old table that needs to be refinished. He will like spending time sanding it down, and then I'll help him reseal it."
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My coworker was pondering summer activities for her 10 year old son. She said, "I know! We have an old table that needs to be refinished. He will like spending time sanding it down, and then I'll help him reseal it."
Hah. We've been occupying the toddler by having her 'help' get small rocks and pebbles off the lawn area before we seed grass. She's surprisingly into it (like, we had to convince her to stop for dinner last night, becuase she wanted to keep going), and it's actually a help. Yay for kids enjoying themselves AND being a help! :)
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My coworker was pondering summer activities for her 10 year old son. She said, "I know! We have an old table that needs to be refinished. He will like spending time sanding it down, and then I'll help him reseal it."
Hah. We've been occupying the toddler by having her 'help' get small rocks and pebbles off the lawn area before we seed grass. She's surprisingly into it (like, we had to convince her to stop for dinner last night, becuase she wanted to keep going), and it's actually a help. Yay for kids enjoying themselves AND being a help! :)
My parents kept me busy by having me "paint" the front gate. It was just a paint can full of water. I think they missed out on an excellent opportunity for free labor--at least on the bottom 3 ft. of the gate.
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My coworker was pondering summer activities for her 10 year old son. She said, "I know! We have an old table that needs to be refinished. He will like spending time sanding it down, and then I'll help him reseal it."
Hah. We've been occupying the toddler by having her 'help' get small rocks and pebbles off the lawn area before we seed grass. She's surprisingly into it (like, we had to convince her to stop for dinner last night, becuase she wanted to keep going), and it's actually a help. Yay for kids enjoying themselves AND being a help! :)
When my boys were about 8 and 11 my ex and I split up. We lived for a time in a townhouse with a common swimming pool. It was next to a university so most of the other tenants were students and the pool was surrounded by pebbles.
It didn't take long for the boys and the manager to come to an agreement about pool maintenance. The pebbles were too big to be picked up in the vacuum system and too smooth for a net. So they used to dive down and collect them, and he paid them $2 for every 10 pebbles. They got more money from him than they did for doing their chores!
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My coworker was pondering summer activities for her 10 year old son. She said, "I know! We have an old table that needs to be refinished. He will like spending time sanding it down, and then I'll help him reseal it."
Hah. We've been occupying the toddler by having her 'help' get small rocks and pebbles off the lawn area before we seed grass. She's surprisingly into it (like, we had to convince her to stop for dinner last night, becuase she wanted to keep going), and it's actually a help. Yay for kids enjoying themselves AND being a help! :)
When my boys were about 8 and 11 my ex and I split up. We lived for a time in a townhouse with a common swimming pool. It was next to a university so most of the other tenants were students and the pool was surrounded by pebbles.
It didn't take long for the boys and the manager to come to an agreement about pool maintenance. The pebbles were too big to be picked up in the vacuum system and too smooth for a net. So they used to dive down and collect them, and he paid them $2 for every 10 pebbles. They got more money from him than they did for doing their chores!
Did the manager ever find out about the boys nightly re-supplying of the pebbles stock?
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Coworker told me she has a 50% savings rate!!
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Overheard a couple strangers at work:
Girl: Hey we need to have lunch together some time!
Friend: Oh I'd love to, but I shouldn't; I want to save money because my car needed $600 of repair this week...
Girl: <sounds of sympathy>
Friend: Don't worry it's fine! I had enough in my savings to cover it, and besides that's why we have savings in the first place, right? Hey, how about instead of lunch out we make something at my place instead...
They both seemed to love the idea of a home-made dinner, and it all just made me smile that someone is dealing with their money in a not-ridiculous way.
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A younger coworker of mine has always seemed like he was pretty free with his spending. Drives a luxury vehicle and is always the sharpest dressed person in the office. I kind of assumed he blew most of his money on clothes, etc.
Well - found out the other day that he bought his car used (he's apparently never bought a new car). He told me he'd rather let other people pay for the depreciation.
Then, recently, someone complimented him on a new dress shirt. He responded with,
"thanks, I got for last week for $4."
When I asked him if I'd heard him right he told me he buys all his dress shirts at thrift shops. He said he saw no reason to pay double digits for clothes. I was impressed not only that he had that attitude, but that he was proud to let everyone know.
My respect for him skyrocketed...and I was reminded in that moment not to make any snap judgements on people.
You really can never tell if people are living off debt or living well within their means....even when you have a good idea of what their means are.
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A younger coworker of mine has always seemed like he was pretty free with his spending. Drives a luxury vehicle and is always the sharpest dressed person in the office. I kind of assumed he blew most of his money on clothes, etc.
Well - found out the other day that he bought his car used (he's apparently never bought a new car). He told me he'd rather let other people pay for the depreciation.
Then, recently, someone complimented him on a new dress shirt. He responded with,
"thanks, I got for last week for $4."
When I asked him if I'd heard him right he told me he buys all his dress shirts at thrift shops. He said he saw no reason to pay double digits for clothes. I was impressed not only that he had that attitude, but that he was proud to let everyone know.
My respect for him skyrocketed...and I was reminded in that moment not to make any snap judgements on people.
You really can never tell if people are living off debt or living well within their means....even when you have a good idea of what their means are.
nice story! and I no longer have an excuse for dressing like a turd =(
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I no longer have an excuse for dressing like a turd =(
That's exactly what I thought too.
:)
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I no longer have an excuse for dressing like a turd =(
That's exactly what I thought too.
:)
I made an arbitrary resolution to not buy new clothes this year. I had to break it this weekend and buy a few new shirts for work as I really was starting to look turdish :(
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Then, recently, someone complimented him on a new dress shirt. He responded with,
"thanks, I got for last week for $4."
Dang, maybe I need to check out thrift shops. I try to make it a point to never spend more then $20-25 on my dress shirts, although sometimes I do. You can find really nice fitting stuff in that price range if you shop at the right places, sometimes name brand. Never thought of a thrift shop though
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I'm a fairly new employee, and I had a meeting with my boss today to discuss my performance, which then led into making sure I knew about the different benefits available to the employees, and he brought up the topic of saving, encouraging me to make sure I was contributing to our 401k enough to get the match, something that I'd been doing. He then mentioned that being in mostly stocks was a good idea, and that passive investing is better than active. Sure, stuff that I already knew because of this forum and related sites, but it was good to see that he was trying to guide me in the right way.
And then he mentioned something about working there for 40 years would give me a good retirement when I'm 25 now. Well, most the conversation is deserving of this thread.
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A coworker used to do a coffee run every day for our team to fill up the coffee cards. He never paid for a coffee.
Funnily enough, he retired early!
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I recently put in a week at the state's National Guard emergency operations center, and met a bunch of my fellow servicemembers who I don't normally see. Asked one senior NCO what his day job was:
"I manage my own investments."
I was like... "yeah, I'm working toward that myself. Good on ya." And we got back to work. I should be in that exact situation in about a year.
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My boss and I were discussing strategies for maxing out 401k contributions given annual bonuses, Q2 pay increases, and our company's policy of only contributing their 3% match on a per pay period basis. (We have to contribute 6% per pay period to get the match, meaning we have to make the contribution every pay period of the year to get the full match.). I offered up the calculator spreadsheet I made, and he said he'd love to have it. Then I offered it to one of my employees whom I know maximizes his contribution, and he wants it also. So, we have some savers around here!
This is my work situation exactly. I would love a copy of it if you wouldn't mind!
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My 23 year old coworker told me yesterday that he's getting ready to start biking to work (figuring out routes etc.) and that his dream in life is not to own a car.
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My 23 year old coworker told me yesterday that he's getting ready to start biking to work (figuring out routes etc.) and that his dream in life is not to own a car.
I think we're up to 1/2 my team biking to work now (some less consistent).
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My husband got added to an engagement team at work. He was going through the suggestion box and found a note from last year, requesting that he and 1 other guy get some sort of award for biking to work every day of the summer. Whoever submitted it thought they should be acknowledged for "saving parking spaces".
Nothing came of it, but my husband was thrilled someone cared enough to submit that.
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LOL of all things parking spaces.
But at least that tells you a lot about the perspective of the writer.
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A coworker used to do a coffee run every day for our team to fill up the coffee cards. He never paid for a coffee.
Funnily enough, he retired early!
I have a friend who does something similar, she gets so many cards punched through her work that she can usually treat friends to coffee on the weekends!
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It wasn't at work, but anti-antimustachian... I was at a museum event last night with a lot of older wealthy fancypants type people. I went to the ladies room afterwards there were a few people waiting in line. Some very fashionably-dressed woman comes in behind me and promptly cuts me in line (NYC, land of entitled assholes). She tells another woman "Oh! I love your shoes!" and the woman thanks her and continues washing her hands. Then she asks the woman with the nice shoes "Who are they?" meaning, you know, which designer made them. Because of course we all wear designer fucking shoes. The woman with the shoes gives her a bright smile and says "No idea. Got them at a thrift store." The woman who cut me in line seemed a bit taken aback... hahaha.
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A coworker used to do a coffee run every day for our team to fill up the coffee cards. He never paid for a coffee.
Funnily enough, he retired early!
I have a friend who does something similar, she gets so many cards punched through her work that she can usually treat friends to coffee on the weekends!
I know that this has been hashed out untold times here at MMM, but I still cannot fathom how much people spend on coffee and other drinks. I'm so glad that at work people don't care and will drink whatever we have. I think we make Folgers and no one really minds, if someone did ask me to upgrade the coffee beans I would, but am glad that no one has. It's a small office, I do keep a lookout for people bringing in their own coffee just in case they are doing it because ours is crap, but I don't notice anyone doing so.
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It wasn't at work, but anti-antimustachian... I was at a museum event last night with a lot of older wealthy fancypants type people. I went to the ladies room afterwards there were a few people waiting in line. Some very fashionably-dressed woman comes in behind me and promptly cuts me in line (NYC, land of entitled assholes). She tells another woman "Oh! I love your shoes!" and the woman thanks her and continues washing her hands. Then she asks the woman with the nice shoes "Who are they?" meaning, you know, which designer made them. Because of course we all wear designer fucking shoes. The woman with the shoes gives her a bright smile and says "No idea. Got them at a thrift store." The woman who cut me in line seemed a bit taken aback... hahaha.
The classic 'chat and cut', as explained by Hizzoner Larry David https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77bW1aMAkhs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77bW1aMAkhs)
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It wasn't at work, but anti-antimustachian... I was at a museum event last night with a lot of older wealthy fancypants type people. I went to the ladies room afterwards there were a few people waiting in line. Some very fashionably-dressed woman comes in behind me and promptly cuts me in line (NYC, land of entitled assholes). She tells another woman "Oh! I love your shoes!" and the woman thanks her and continues washing her hands. Then she asks the woman with the nice shoes "Who are they?" meaning, you know, which designer made them. Because of course we all wear designer fucking shoes. The woman with the shoes gives her a bright smile and says "No idea. Got them at a thrift store." The woman who cut me in line seemed a bit taken aback... hahaha.
The classic 'chat and cut', as explained by Hizzoner Larry David https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77bW1aMAkhs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77bW1aMAkhs)
Stuff like this is filed under "don't sweat the small stuff." If she needed to pee badly enough to cut me in line, that's OK. If she is such an awful person that cutting me in line and making me wait 27 more seconds to pee somehow makes her happy, then I feel sorry for her that her life is such a dreadful wasteland devoid of real meaning. Plus, she was on the elderly side, and I have a rule about not arguing with old ladies. :-)
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one of my gym rat friends was wearing a really bad tshirt that apparently he had torn working in the yard. He walks up to me and tells me he needs to go to Goodwill and buy some more tshirts.
Then he tells me about his latest trip to Goodwill where he got 4 dress shirts nearly new but had to pay to get them altered. He said he negotiates at Goodwill and they usually give him 50% off.
hahaha LOVE THIS GUY.
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It wasn't at work, but anti-antimustachian... I was at a museum event last night with a lot of older wealthy fancypants type people. I went to the ladies room afterwards there were a few people waiting in line. Some very fashionably-dressed woman comes in behind me and promptly cuts me in line (NYC, land of entitled assholes). She tells another woman "Oh! I love your shoes!" and the woman thanks her and continues washing her hands. Then she asks the woman with the nice shoes "Who are they?" meaning, you know, which designer made them. Because of course we all wear designer fucking shoes. The woman with the shoes gives her a bright smile and says "No idea. Got them at a thrift store." The woman who cut me in line seemed a bit taken aback... hahaha.
The classic 'chat and cut', as explained by Hizzoner Larry David https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77bW1aMAkhs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77bW1aMAkhs)
Stuff like this is filed under "don't sweat the small stuff."
AGREED! I've gotten better about not getting all bothered by terrible drivers. I learned a good lesson from my sister's husband who whle driving was flicked off. I looked at him, as if expecting him to get angry, but he just shrugged and said, "Why should it affect my mood?"
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Heard this exchange just yesterday.
CW1: Those new Corvettes sure look nice
CW2: You should get one. I bet you can afford the payments
CW1: I could afford to pay cash
CW2: (eyes wide) Really?!? Why don't you get one?
CW1: Because I would rather not work into my 60's
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Heard this exchange just yesterday.
CW1: Those new Corvettes sure look nice
CW2: You should get one. I bet you can afford the payments
CW1: I could afford to pay cash
CW2: (eyes wide) Really?!? Why don't you get one?
CW1: Because I would rather not work into my 60's
That's awesome. I should have said that to the coworker who suggested I buy a new car on payments a year out of college... I was driving a junker so I did buy a new (to me) much nicer vehicle a year or so later. The same coworker asked what my payment was. His eyes got pretty wide when I told him I didn't have one...
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Heard this exchange just yesterday.
CW1: Those new Corvettes sure look nice
CW2: You should get one. I bet you can afford the payments
CW1: I could afford to pay cash
CW2: (eyes wide) Really?!? Why don't you get one?
CW1: Because I would rather not work into my 60's
That's awesome. I should have said that to the coworker who suggested I buy a new car on payments a year out of college... I was driving a junker so I did buy a new (to me) much nicer vehicle a year or so later. The same coworker asked what my payment was. His eyes got pretty wide when I told him I didn't have one...
I STILL get that. We bought our last cars in 2006 and 2009, paid cash. I mean, we were in our late 30s/ early 40s.
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Heard this exchange just yesterday.
CW1: Those new Corvettes sure look nice
CW2: You should get one. I bet you can afford the payments
CW1: I could afford to pay cash
CW2: (eyes wide) Really?!? Why don't you get one?
CW1: Because I would rather not work into my 60's
That's awesome. I should have said that to the coworker who suggested I buy a new car on payments a year out of college... I was driving a junker so I did buy a new (to me) much nicer vehicle a year or so later. The same coworker asked what my payment was. His eyes got pretty wide when I told him I didn't have one...
I STILL get that. We bought our last cars in 2006 and 2009, paid cash. I mean, we were in our late 30s/ early 40s.
We did that in 2011, and it's the car we're still driving. The fact that we have a 4-year-old car and commute to work together so that we only need one car seems to mystify my colleagues. And I'm like... It's cheap, it runs fine, it's great on gas, and we like each other enough to chat for 45 minutes 2 days a week. What's the problem?
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I heard my warehouse manager castigating a warehouse worker for not cooking more. He was giving him advice on things to make and I suggested he use his slow cooker to make things like chili.
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Heard this exchange just yesterday.
CW1: Those new Corvettes sure look nice
CW2: You should get one. I bet you can afford the payments
CW1: I could afford to pay cash
CW2: (eyes wide) Really?!? Why don't you get one?
CW1: Because I would rather not work into my 60's
That's awesome. I should have said that to the coworker who suggested I buy a new car on payments a year out of college... I was driving a junker so I did buy a new (to me) much nicer vehicle a year or so later. The same coworker asked what my payment was. His eyes got pretty wide when I told him I didn't have one...
I STILL get that. We bought our last cars in 2006 and 2009, paid cash. I mean, we were in our late 30s/ early 40s.
I think a large number of people assume that if you have a car that is less than 10 years old (or more) that you financed it to buy it.
I cannot recall a time when people talked about a paid off car at work that was not in this situation, particularly at my past employer (current immediate team is all super MMM like lol so I'd guess none of us have loans other than one guy with a mortgage).
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Really, I'm posting to follow, but I do remember a guy who bought a fancy new corvette and then resorted to saying "This is not a mid-life crisis car" every time someone admired it. Ha! Dude, that was totally a mid-life crisis car. There was no way he could afford that car. Had to sell it soon after.
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Really, I'm posting to follow, but I do remember a guy who bought a fancy new corvette and then resorted to saying "This is not a mid-life crisis car" every time someone admired it. Ha! Dude, that was totally a mid-life crisis car. There was no way he could afford that car. Had to sell it soon after.
I told my husband recently that if he was ever looking for a mid-life crisis hobby in the future (we're 25 and 26), he had to pick something with a high resale value. He suggested rare books. I told him that was OK.
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I think a large number of people assume that if you have a car that is less than 10 years old (or more) that you financed it to buy it.
I cannot recall a time when people talked about a paid off car at work that was not in this situation, particularly at my past employer (current immediate team is all super MMM like lol so I'd guess none of us have loans other than one guy with a mortgage).
Presumably a MMM (if they were to buy a new car rather than the proscribed official bike+trailer) would get a loan rather than pay cash?
Car loans are <1% (according to the annoying radio ad) I can do a lot better with that $20k-30k than 1%
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Really, I'm posting to follow, but I do remember a guy who bought a fancy new corvette and then resorted to saying "This is not a mid-life crisis car" every time someone admired it. Ha! Dude, that was totally a mid-life crisis car. There was no way he could afford that car. Had to sell it soon after.
I told my husband recently that if he was ever looking for a mid-life crisis hobby in the future (we're 25 and 26), he had to pick something with a high resale value. He suggested rare books. I told him that was OK.
I like this! What else would make mustachian (or even better, lucrative) mid-life crises? Marathon training, instrument learning, hmmm
My dad bought a single engine airplane, and that thing went up in value big time. But I know he spent many dollars on insurance and pilot licenses.
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Really, I'm posting to follow, but I do remember a guy who bought a fancy new corvette and then resorted to saying "This is not a mid-life crisis car" every time someone admired it. Ha! Dude, that was totally a mid-life crisis car. There was no way he could afford that car. Had to sell it soon after.
I told my husband recently that if he was ever looking for a mid-life crisis hobby in the future (we're 25 and 26), he had to pick something with a high resale value. He suggested rare books. I told him that was OK.
I like this! What else would make mustachian (or even better, lucrative) mid-life crises? Marathon training, instrument learning, hmmm
My dad bought a single engine airplane, and that thing went up in value big time. But I know he spent many dollars on insurance and pilot licenses.
I think several kinds of craft hobby that involve making little items that are easy to sell to cover your costs might go well, like crafting small leather goods or carving small wood items.
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Really, I'm posting to follow, but I do remember a guy who bought a fancy new corvette and then resorted to saying "This is not a mid-life crisis car" every time someone admired it. Ha! Dude, that was totally a mid-life crisis car. There was no way he could afford that car. Had to sell it soon after.
A couple of years ago I got sort of a mid life crisis when a cousin roughly the same age as me died of a stroke on a monday morning.
I bought a convertible.
But in order to buy it i sold my regular car, and the purhcase price for the convertible and sale price for the regular car was roughly the same, so I don't think it was that bad from a financial standpoint.
Now, a few years later I'm still in love with the convertible. To drive down a small country road on a nice summer afternoon with the top down is still magic and brings a smile to my face every time. :)
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Really, I'm posting to follow, but I do remember a guy who bought a fancy new corvette and then resorted to saying "This is not a mid-life crisis car" every time someone admired it. Ha! Dude, that was totally a mid-life crisis car. There was no way he could afford that car. Had to sell it soon after.
I told my husband recently that if he was ever looking for a mid-life crisis hobby in the future (we're 25 and 26), he had to pick something with a high resale value. He suggested rare books. I told him that was OK.
I like this! What else would make mustachian (or even better, lucrative) mid-life crises? Marathon training, instrument learning, hmmm
My dad bought a single engine airplane, and that thing went up in value big time. But I know he spent many dollars on insurance and pilot licenses.
I think several kinds of craft hobby that involve making little items that are easy to sell to cover your costs might go well, like crafting small leather goods or carving small wood items.
Gardening. Baking.
Hell, I know a guy who took a few pastry-making classes in his early 30s. Seriously effective as a dating tactic: "oh, I was experimenting with millefeuilles - would you like to come try some?"
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Really, I'm posting to follow, but I do remember a guy who bought a fancy new corvette and then resorted to saying "This is not a mid-life crisis car" every time someone admired it. Ha! Dude, that was totally a mid-life crisis car. There was no way he could afford that car. Had to sell it soon after.
I told my husband recently that if he was ever looking for a mid-life crisis hobby in the future (we're 25 and 26), he had to pick something with a high resale value. He suggested rare books. I told him that was OK.
I like this! What else would make mustachian (or even better, lucrative) mid-life crises? Marathon training, instrument learning, hmmm
My dad bought a single engine airplane, and that thing went up in value big time. But I know he spent many dollars on insurance and pilot licenses.
My dad built an airplane as a midlife crisis. Or something like that. Probably wasn't very much per hour in terms of cost :-) Lots of hours makes a high cost cheap per hour!
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I'm at a new job and there has been a student nurse around. It was her last day and she was asking about wages. Somehow her previous career came up (pharmacy technician) and she mentioned she had worked at that pharmacy for 20 years. Then she told me she had 500k in her 401k. 500k from 20 years as a pharmacy tech.
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I'm at a new job and there has been a student nurse around. It was her last day and she was asking about wages. Somehow her previous career came up (pharmacy technician) and she mentioned she had worked at that pharmacy for 20 years. Then she told me she had 500k in her 401k. 500k from 20 years as a pharmacy tech.
Are you saying that is high or low?
500k is way way way above the US national average. So while not MMM levels, it is a pretty good stash. In 10 more years they may be able to retire.
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I'm at a new job and there has been a student nurse around. It was her last day and she was asking about wages. Somehow her previous career came up (pharmacy technician) and she mentioned she had worked at that pharmacy for 20 years. Then she told me she had 500k in her 401k. 500k from 20 years as a pharmacy tech.
Are you saying that is high or low?
500k is way way way above the US national average. So while not MMM levels, it is a pretty good stash. In 10 more years they may be able to retire.
Say WHAT? 4% of $500k is $20,000 a year. That is totally MMM levels of FIRE money.
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I'm at a new job and there has been a student nurse around. It was her last day and she was asking about wages. Somehow her previous career came up (pharmacy technician) and she mentioned she had worked at that pharmacy for 20 years. Then she told me she had 500k in her 401k. 500k from 20 years as a pharmacy tech.
Are you saying that is high or low?
500k is way way way above the US national average. So while not MMM levels, it is a pretty good stash. In 10 more years they may be able to retire.
Say WHAT? 4% of $500k is $20,000 a year. That is totally MMM levels of FIRE money.
MMM levels would be much higher-after 20 years in a high paying field, a MMM person would have several million in retirement.
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MMM levels would be much higher-after 20 years in a high paying field, a MMM person would have several million in retirement.
I think you're wildly overestimating how much a pharmacy technician job pays. My wife did that part-time in a supermarket pharmacy when she was an undergrad, and I don't think she made more than nine or ten dollars an hour.
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I'm at a new job and there has been a student nurse around. It was her last day and she was asking about wages. Somehow her previous career came up (pharmacy technician) and she mentioned she had worked at that pharmacy for 20 years. Then she told me she had 500k in her 401k. 500k from 20 years as a pharmacy tech.
Are you saying that is high or low?
500k is way way way above the US national average. So while not MMM levels, it is a pretty good stash. In 10 more years they may be able to retire.
Say WHAT? 4% of $500k is $20,000 a year. That is totally MMM levels of FIRE money.
MMM levels would be much higher-after 20 years in a high paying field, a MMM person would have several million in retirement.
But not in a single 401k, due to contribution limits, unless you have an incredible employer match. In 1996 the 401k contribution limit was $9500. If you contributed the federal max to your 401k from 1996 to 2015 with no employer matching you would end up with around $468k (assuming 7% returns). I'd say $500k is quite an impressive number.
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I'm at a new job and there has been a student nurse around. It was her last day and she was asking about wages. Somehow her previous career came up (pharmacy technician) and she mentioned she had worked at that pharmacy for 20 years. Then she told me she had 500k in her 401k. 500k from 20 years as a pharmacy tech.
Are you saying that is high or low?
500k is way way way above the US national average. So while not MMM levels, it is a pretty good stash. In 10 more years they may be able to retire.
Say WHAT? 4% of $500k is $20,000 a year. That is totally MMM levels of FIRE money.
MMM levels would be much higher-after 20 years in a high paying field, a MMM person would have several million in retirement.
But not in a single 401k, due to contribution limits, unless you have an incredible employer match. In 1996 the 401k contribution limit was $9500. If you contributed the federal max to your 401k from 1996 to 2015 with no employer matching you would end up with around $468k (assuming 7% returns). I'd say $500k is quite an impressive number.
Especially for a pharmacy tech, as opposed to a pharmacist. Very different jobs, those: it's like comparing a nursing tech (minimum wage) to a nurse ($50k+).
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MMM levels would be much higher-after 20 years in a high paying field, a MMM person would have several million in retirement.
I think you're wildly overestimating how much a pharmacy technician job pays. My wife did that part-time in a supermarket pharmacy when she was an undergrad, and I don't think she made more than nine or ten dollars an hour.
I think they are thinking of a pharmacist. Very different job. My local hospital has job openings for pharmacists around $100k, and pharm techs around $30k.
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I'm at a new job and there has been a student nurse around. It was her last day and she was asking about wages. Somehow her previous career came up (pharmacy technician) and she mentioned she had worked at that pharmacy for 20 years. Then she told me she had 500k in her 401k. 500k from 20 years as a pharmacy tech.
That's fantastic
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I don't think pharmacy tech. I'm a pharmacist, been one for 22 years. I have 480K. Now, I didn't invest the maximum in the early years, only enough to get the match--sigh. My tech's start at $12 and max out at $17.
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I don't think pharmacy tech. I'm a pharmacist, been one for 22 years. I have 480K. Now, I didn't invest the maximum in the early years, only enough to get the match--sigh. My tech's start at $12 and max out at $17.
True. But who's more likely to move into a job as a student nurse after 20 years of working: you, or one of your techs?
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Background: My wife is a lawyer at a BigLaw firm. Last weekend, we were invited to one of the Partner's houses along with a bunch of co-workers as a way to get to know everyone. You couldn't ask for a more non-mustachian crowd. Here's a few of my favorite comments:
[20-something brand new lawyer] "My trip to Tokyo was amazing for the food. We waited in line for over 5 hours starting at 3:30am to get into an amazing Sushi place at the fish market". I refrained from asking whether they could have done a complete fishing charter and got their own fresh fish in that amount of time.
[50-something partner with her husband] "We went to an amazing restaurant last night. The food is served from a fixed menu, and you have to buy the $250 tickets (per person, excluding drinks) a month in advance. We don't trust UberX drivers, so we took an UberBlack (they live maybe 45 minutes away) for only $125 each way."
[same 20-something brand new lawyer] "I only really eat delivery. One time I nearly panicked because there was a Giants game going on (she lives across the street from the stadium), and no one could deliver in a reasonable amount of time. I wasn't sure how I was going to eat." Discussion ensued. The rest of the crowd was even a little shocked by this one. Particularly since there is literally a Safeway on the ground floor of her building.
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Background: My wife is a lawyer at a BigLaw firm. Last weekend, we were invited to one of the Partner's houses along with a bunch of co-workers as a way to get to know everyone. You couldn't ask for a more non-mustachian crowd. Here's a few of my favorite comments:
[20-something brand new lawyer] "My trip to Tokyo was amazing for the food. We waited in line for over 5 hours starting at 3:30am to get into an amazing Sushi place at the fish market". I refrained from asking whether they could have done a complete fishing charter and got their own fresh fish in that amount of time.
[50-something partner with her husband] "We went to an amazing restaurant last night. The food is served from a fixed menu, and you have to buy the $250 tickets (per person, excluding drinks) a month in advance. We don't trust UberX drivers, so we took an UberBlack (they live maybe 45 minutes away) for only $125 each way."
[same 20-something brand new lawyer] "I only really eat delivery. One time I nearly panicked because there was a Giants game going on (she lives across the street from the stadium), and no one could deliver in a reasonable amount of time. I wasn't sure how I was going to eat." Discussion ensued. The rest of the crowd was even a little shocked by this one. Particularly since there is literally a Safeway on the ground floor of her building.
Pretty sure you meant to post that in this thread:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/
(at least I hope so)
:)
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Background: My wife is a lawyer at a BigLaw firm. Last weekend, we were invited to one of the Partner's houses along with a bunch of co-workers as a way to get to know everyone. You couldn't ask for a more non-mustachian crowd. Here's a few of my favorite comments:
[20-something brand new lawyer] "My trip to Tokyo was amazing for the food. We waited in line for over 5 hours starting at 3:30am to get into an amazing Sushi place at the fish market". I refrained from asking whether they could have done a complete fishing charter and got their own fresh fish in that amount of time.
[50-something partner with her husband] "We went to an amazing restaurant last night. The food is served from a fixed menu, and you have to buy the $250 tickets (per person, excluding drinks) a month in advance. We don't trust UberX drivers, so we took an UberBlack (they live maybe 45 minutes away) for only $125 each way."
[same 20-something brand new lawyer] "I only really eat delivery. One time I nearly panicked because there was a Giants game going on (she lives across the street from the stadium), and no one could deliver in a reasonable amount of time. I wasn't sure how I was going to eat." Discussion ensued. The rest of the crowd was even a little shocked by this one. Particularly since there is literally a Safeway on the ground floor of her building.
Lol pm me the firm. It should be noted that most young big law lawyers eat mostly delivery because it's provided for free by the firm when they work late (which is usually). And a 50-somethin partner spending $250 on dinner is probably equivalent to me eating at Taco Bell on an income percent basis (median profits per partner in big law being around $1.3 million per year, and likely much higher for that guy)
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Background: My wife is a lawyer at a BigLaw firm. Last weekend, we were invited to one of the Partner's houses along with a bunch of co-workers as a way to get to know everyone. You couldn't ask for a more non-mustachian crowd. Here's a few of my favorite comments:
[20-something brand new lawyer] "My trip to Tokyo was amazing for the food. We waited in line for over 5 hours starting at 3:30am to get into an amazing Sushi place at the fish market". I refrained from asking whether they could have done a complete fishing charter and got their own fresh fish in that amount of time.
[50-something partner with her husband] "We went to an amazing restaurant last night. The food is served from a fixed menu, and you have to buy the $250 tickets (per person, excluding drinks) a month in advance. We don't trust UberX drivers, so we took an UberBlack (they live maybe 45 minutes away) for only $125 each way."
[same 20-something brand new lawyer] "I only really eat delivery. One time I nearly panicked because there was a Giants game going on (she lives across the street from the stadium), and no one could deliver in a reasonable amount of time. I wasn't sure how I was going to eat." Discussion ensued. The rest of the crowd was even a little shocked by this one. Particularly since there is literally a Safeway on the ground floor of her building.
Lol pm me the firm. It should be noted that most young big law lawyers eat mostly delivery because it's provided for free by the firm when they work late (which is usually). And a 50-somethin partner spending $250 on dinner is probably equivalent to me eating at Taco Bell on an income percent basis (median profits per partner in big law being around $1.3 million per year, and likely much higher for that guy)
LOL!
Yeah, while they make a lot of money, I don't think there is an amount of money that would be worth the sacrifice and toil it takes to get to that level....considering that BLaw partners work just as hard as they did while they were associates (don't know if this includes hustling new clients or becoming a 'rainmaker.')
I know a few people that are I-bankers and they have all their meals provided while they are working. It isn't because the company values them like Google and other places do, it's because they expect them to be there working insane hours. They are given a list of restaurants that they can order from and have it delivered. A few tell me that after a while the novelty wears off and foods taste the same.
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Background: My wife is a lawyer at a BigLaw firm. Last weekend, we were invited to one of the Partner's houses along with a bunch of co-workers as a way to get to know everyone. You couldn't ask for a more non-mustachian crowd. Here's a few of my favorite comments:
[20-something brand new lawyer] "My trip to Tokyo was amazing for the food. We waited in line for over 5 hours starting at 3:30am to get into an amazing Sushi place at the fish market". I refrained from asking whether they could have done a complete fishing charter and got their own fresh fish in that amount of time.
[50-something partner with her husband] "We went to an amazing restaurant last night. The food is served from a fixed menu, and you have to buy the $250 tickets (per person, excluding drinks) a month in advance. We don't trust UberX drivers, so we took an UberBlack (they live maybe 45 minutes away) for only $125 each way."
[same 20-something brand new lawyer] "I only really eat delivery. One time I nearly panicked because there was a Giants game going on (she lives across the street from the stadium), and no one could deliver in a reasonable amount of time. I wasn't sure how I was going to eat." Discussion ensued. The rest of the crowd was even a little shocked by this one. Particularly since there is literally a Safeway on the ground floor of her building.
LOL, I've heard of this sushi place from some friends of mine who also waited in line for a long time... https://www.yelp.com/biz/%E5%AF%BF%E5%8F%B8%E5%A4%A7-%E4%B8%AD%E5%A4%AE%E5%8C%BA
I don't think there's ever a "good time" to go - if you go any later than that, you'll be waiting even longer most likely. Part of the problem is that they can only seat so many people at once (14 seats). Though one Yelper mentions going an hour before closing, because it's not nearly as busy. Kinda ridiculous but it is one of the most renown sushi joints in Japan and is located at the famous Tsukiji fish market, which apparently may close because they are planning to host Olympic events there. Considering it's probably a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity (well, for me it would be) while in Japan (and even more so because it would likely close down along with the market), I'd probably bite the bullet if I couldn't swing going there around when they close.... but on the flip-side, I'd probably make my plans around going to this place at 1pm if they really aren't as busy by then. As far as waiting in line, have you heard of Franklin's BBQ in Austin? lol...
I'm actually surprised the lawyer girl didn't talk about probable experiences with wagyu and kobe beef, and how she paid hundreds of dollars to eat 4 ounces of beef fat.
After you mentioned fishing and catching the fish fresh, you got me reminiscing - I actually went on a trip to Baja like that where we caught tons of firecracker yellowtail and the guide filleted one on the boat and we ate it just like that (one of his buddy came by and tossed us a bag of limes and soy sauce). Of course, they say fish is at it's prime (in terms of flavor and texture) typically days after it's caught. I wouldn't have known because I was too busy chowing down - fortunately nobody suffered from seasickness in that tiny panga as there were no swells; otherwise, it would have been a mess.
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LOL, I've heard of this sushi place from some friends of mine who also waited in line for a long time... https://www.yelp.com/biz/%E5%AF%BF%E5%8F%B8%E5%A4%A7-%E4%B8%AD%E5%A4%AE%E5%8C%BA
Yeah that's what I was thinking it was. While I likely would find other things to do with my time in Tokyo, I've heard great things about this place and don't think it's facepunch worthy to wait in line.
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Background: My wife is a lawyer at a BigLaw firm. Last weekend, we were invited to one of the Partner's houses along with a bunch of co-workers as a way to get to know everyone. You couldn't ask for a more non-mustachian crowd. Here's a few of my favorite comments:
[20-something brand new lawyer] "My trip to Tokyo was amazing for the food. We waited in line for over 5 hours starting at 3:30am to get into an amazing Sushi place at the fish market". I refrained from asking whether they could have done a complete fishing charter and got their own fresh fish in that amount of time.
[50-something partner with her husband] "We went to an amazing restaurant last night. The food is served from a fixed menu, and you have to buy the $250 tickets (per person, excluding drinks) a month in advance. We don't trust UberX drivers, so we took an UberBlack (they live maybe 45 minutes away) for only $125 each way."
[same 20-something brand new lawyer] "I only really eat delivery. One time I nearly panicked because there was a Giants game going on (she lives across the street from the stadium), and no one could deliver in a reasonable amount of time. I wasn't sure how I was going to eat." Discussion ensued. The rest of the crowd was even a little shocked by this one. Particularly since there is literally a Safeway on the ground floor of her building.
Lol pm me the firm. It should be noted that most young big law lawyers eat mostly delivery because it's provided for free by the firm when they work late (which is usually). And a 50-somethin partner spending $250 on dinner is probably equivalent to me eating at Taco Bell on an income percent basis (median profits per partner in big law being around $1.3 million per year, and likely much higher for that guy)
LOL!
Yeah, while they make a lot of money, I don't think there is an amount of money that would be worth the sacrifice and toil it takes to get to that level....considering that BLaw partners work just as hard as they did while they were associates (don't know if this includes hustling new clients or becoming a 'rainmaker.')
I know a few people that are I-bankers and they have all their meals provided while they are working. It isn't because the company values them like Google and other places do, it's because they expect them to be there working insane hours. They are given a list of restaurants that they can order from and have it delivered. A few tell me that after a while the novelty wears off and foods taste the same.
It makes complete mathematical sense to provide the meals. Say the associate would otherwise be spending 15 minutes to pop downstairs and pick up the meal. Well that's $100 (more or less) in lost revenue. Delivery is much cheaper.
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LOL, I've heard of this sushi place from some friends of mine who also waited in line for a long time... https://www.yelp.com/biz/%E5%AF%BF%E5%8F%B8%E5%A4%A7-%E4%B8%AD%E5%A4%AE%E5%8C%BA
Yeah that's what I was thinking it was. While I likely would find other things to do with my time in Tokyo, I've heard great things about this place and don't think it's facepunch worthy to wait in line.
I think it's worth it if you know you won't be back to Japan for a while. But yea, I'd of course try to figure out how to hack my way to a faster meal... even if it means eating on my own. My friends who went were a big group but they were fine with splitting up into 2s and 3s to get in faster - it worked in their favor as I'm pretty sure they didn't wait for more than a couple hours. The nice thing about this is that you're not spending a lot of money for super fresh sushi that's likely as good as the premiere places in the Bay Area and LA (think Sushi Shibucho in Costa Mesa and Yume in Alameda... I've been to both and it's not cheap - my brother treated us to Yume and my friend treated us to Shibucho. I've only been to Shibucho a few other times and it comes out to be anywhere from $80-$120 depending on how much you eat). Seems with Sushi Dai you can get away with a sushi meal on $20-40 which is really good. Only problem is that wait, of course :) And then of course, getting over there (sunk-cost though for most... though I'm sure some stupid rich execs don't mind hopping on their private jets to hit up Japan for the day)
This just reminded me of Din Tai Fung - they recently opened one up in the Bay Area and several have posted videos of the line, which weaves through the mall probably several hundreds of yards. I've heard of 4-5 hour lines just for stupid dumplings. I've been to DTF before (the one in Arcadia) but certainly didn't wait that long. It was probably a 30min wait max. The dumplings aren't worth waiting for 5 hours in line over, though there are many people (hipsters) who wouldn't mind at all... you know, gotta insta/vine/hashtag the experience yo. Word. #yolo
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I saw the DTF line last week and didn't understand what the big deal was! Now I know #yolo
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I saw the DTF line last week and didn't understand what the big deal was! Now I know #yolo
#yolo, it's worth the 5 hour wait in line. You might as well drive down to SoCal in that timeframe and eat at the Arcadia location where there's less of a wait if you go at the right time. I feel like xiao long bao is one of those things that's really difficult to screw up at most decent Chinese/Taiwanese restaurants... the big selling point, *I guess*, with DTF is that they're made "fresh" - most of the time I can't tell but maybe everyone else, especially the hipsters, can tell the difference.
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just btw: Tokyo is the town with the most (Michelin) star-rated restaurants.
There is even one in an underground parking space with 7 seats and a soup-only "restaurant" not much bigger.
The Michelin guys had to redo their evaluation system because of the many "unusual" good restaurants in Japan. Service quality of the waiters? There are none!
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just btw: Tokyo is the town with the most (Michelin) star-rated restaurants.
There is even one in an underground parking space with 7 seats and a soup-only "restaurant" not much bigger.
The Michelin guys had to redo their evaluation system because of the many "unusual" good restaurants in Japan. Service quality of the waiters? There are none!
Yeah, though I haven't been to Tokyo, much less ate at any of these restaurants, I think the level of Michelin rated places in Japan is horshit. Just a way for the company to sell more tires.
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I saw the DTF line last week and didn't understand what the big deal was! Now I know #yolo
#yolo, it's worth the 5 hour wait in line. You might as well drive down to SoCal in that timeframe and eat at the Arcadia location where there's less of a wait if you go at the right time. I feel like xiao long bao is one of those things that's really difficult to screw up at most decent Chinese/Taiwanese restaurants... the big selling point, *I guess*, with DTF is that they're made "fresh" - most of the time I can't tell but maybe everyone else, especially the hipsters, can tell the difference.
In a pinch I satisfy my XLB cravings from the frozen section of Trader Joes, they are pretty good. But I'm always on the lookout for bay area locales with the fresher stuff.
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just btw: Tokyo is the town with the most (Michelin) star-rated restaurants.
There is even one in an underground parking space with 7 seats and a soup-only "restaurant" not much bigger.
The Michelin guys had to redo their evaluation system because of the many "unusual" good restaurants in Japan. Service quality of the waiters? There are none!
Yeah, though I haven't been to Tokyo, much less ate at any of these restaurants, I think the level of Michelin rated places in Japan is horshit. Just a way for the company to sell more tires.
Lol, thanks Kenm
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I saw the DTF line last week and didn't understand what the big deal was! Now I know #yolo
#yolo, it's worth the 5 hour wait in line. You might as well drive down to SoCal in that timeframe and eat at the Arcadia location where there's less of a wait if you go at the right time. I feel like xiao long bao is one of those things that's really difficult to screw up at most decent Chinese/Taiwanese restaurants... the big selling point, *I guess*, with DTF is that they're made "fresh" - most of the time I can't tell but maybe everyone else, especially the hipsters, can tell the difference.
In a pinch I satisfy my XLB cravings from the frozen section of Trader Joes, they are pretty good. But I'm always on the lookout for bay area locales with the fresher stuff.
This reminds me, I need to find a good bamboo steamer - my wife has been wanting one. Maybe I should post in the DIY section to see if anyone has a tutorial hahahahha :D
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I've suspected for a while that my boss is pretty frugal. He almost always brings his lunch to work. He talks about planting his own trees and constructing his kids' backyard playground. And he rented a metal detector to find his wedding band which he lost in his garden (and found it!).
Today he was talking about how his French doors were being replaced. He said all of the quotes he got were in the 5-digit range. He managed to find a nice set of French doors on Craigslist for $900. I was pretty impressed. Then he was talking about getting a fancy new doorbell to go with the fancy new door. He stopped mid-sentence and said, "Actually, you know what? I'll just paint the old doorbell." Guy knows what's up.
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Background: My wife is a lawyer at a BigLaw firm. Last weekend, we were invited to one of the Partner's houses along with a bunch of co-workers as a way to get to know everyone. You couldn't ask for a more non-mustachian crowd. Here's a few of my favorite comments:
[20-something brand new lawyer] "My trip to Tokyo was amazing for the food. We waited in line for over 5 hours starting at 3:30am to get into an amazing Sushi place at the fish market". I refrained from asking whether they could have done a complete fishing charter and got their own fresh fish in that amount of time.
[50-something partner with her husband] "We went to an amazing restaurant last night. The food is served from a fixed menu, and you have to buy the $250 tickets (per person, excluding drinks) a month in advance. We don't trust UberX drivers, so we took an UberBlack (they live maybe 45 minutes away) for only $125 each way."
[same 20-something brand new lawyer] "I only really eat delivery. One time I nearly panicked because there was a Giants game going on (she lives across the street from the stadium), and no one could deliver in a reasonable amount of time. I wasn't sure how I was going to eat." Discussion ensued. The rest of the crowd was even a little shocked by this one. Particularly since there is literally a Safeway on the ground floor of her building.
Lol pm me the firm. It should be noted that most young big law lawyers eat mostly delivery because it's provided for free by the firm when they work late (which is usually). And a 50-somethin partner spending $250 on dinner is probably equivalent to me eating at Taco Bell on an income percent basis (median profits per partner in big law being around $1.3 million per year, and likely much higher for that guy)
LOL!
Yeah, while they make a lot of money, I don't think there is an amount of money that would be worth the sacrifice and toil it takes to get to that level....considering that BLaw partners work just as hard as they did while they were associates (don't know if this includes hustling new clients or becoming a 'rainmaker.')
I know a few people that are I-bankers and they have all their meals provided while they are working. It isn't because the company values them like Google and other places do, it's because they expect them to be there working insane hours. They are given a list of restaurants that they can order from and have it delivered. A few tell me that after a while the novelty wears off and foods taste the same.
Umm you must be mistaken. Google, Facebook etc do the free food for the exact same reasons that the banks/law firms do it: to keep the employees working longer. Especially in the beginning when Google wasn't paying the highest salaries, the free food was a big money saver for them (~$3k food cost per employee vs perceived value raises of ~$10k)
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Background: My wife is a lawyer at a BigLaw firm. Last weekend, we were invited to one of the Partner's houses along with a bunch of co-workers as a way to get to know everyone. You couldn't ask for a more non-mustachian crowd. Here's a few of my favorite comments:
[20-something brand new lawyer] "My trip to Tokyo was amazing for the food. We waited in line for over 5 hours starting at 3:30am to get into an amazing Sushi place at the fish market". I refrained from asking whether they could have done a complete fishing charter and got their own fresh fish in that amount of time.
[50-something partner with her husband] "We went to an amazing restaurant last night. The food is served from a fixed menu, and you have to buy the $250 tickets (per person, excluding drinks) a month in advance. We don't trust UberX drivers, so we took an UberBlack (they live maybe 45 minutes away) for only $125 each way."
[same 20-something brand new lawyer] "I only really eat delivery. One time I nearly panicked because there was a Giants game going on (she lives across the street from the stadium), and no one could deliver in a reasonable amount of time. I wasn't sure how I was going to eat." Discussion ensued. The rest of the crowd was even a little shocked by this one. Particularly since there is literally a Safeway on the ground floor of her building.
Lol pm me the firm. It should be noted that most young big law lawyers eat mostly delivery because it's provided for free by the firm when they work late (which is usually). And a 50-somethin partner spending $250 on dinner is probably equivalent to me eating at Taco Bell on an income percent basis (median profits per partner in big law being around $1.3 million per year, and likely much higher for that guy)
LOL!
Yeah, while they make a lot of money, I don't think there is an amount of money that would be worth the sacrifice and toil it takes to get to that level....considering that BLaw partners work just as hard as they did while they were associates (don't know if this includes hustling new clients or becoming a 'rainmaker.')
I know a few people that are I-bankers and they have all their meals provided while they are working. It isn't because the company values them like Google and other places do, it's because they expect them to be there working insane hours. They are given a list of restaurants that they can order from and have it delivered. A few tell me that after a while the novelty wears off and foods taste the same.
Umm you must be mistaken. Google, Facebook etc do the free food for the exact same reasons that the banks/law firms do it: to keep the employees working longer. Especially in the beginning when Google wasn't paying the highest salaries, the free food was a big money saver for them (~$3k food cost per employee vs perceived value raises of ~$10k)
To be clear, this lawyer wasn't talking about food provided by the firm. This firm doesn't do that. She was talking about paying for delivery to her house for literally every single meal.
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I think employer paid lunches would be more expensive for me than my current lunches. Employer paid regular meals are taxable in Canada and cost of employer provided lunch x my tax rate is greater than the cost of a lunch I prepare myself.
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Background: My wife is a lawyer at a BigLaw firm. Last weekend, we were invited to one of the Partner's houses along with a bunch of co-workers as a way to get to know everyone. You couldn't ask for a more non-mustachian crowd. Here's a few of my favorite comments:
[20-something brand new lawyer] "My trip to Tokyo was amazing for the food. We waited in line for over 5 hours starting at 3:30am to get into an amazing Sushi place at the fish market". I refrained from asking whether they could have done a complete fishing charter and got their own fresh fish in that amount of time.
[50-something partner with her husband] "We went to an amazing restaurant last night. The food is served from a fixed menu, and you have to buy the $250 tickets (per person, excluding drinks) a month in advance. We don't trust UberX drivers, so we took an UberBlack (they live maybe 45 minutes away) for only $125 each way."
[same 20-something brand new lawyer] "I only really eat delivery. One time I nearly panicked because there was a Giants game going on (she lives across the street from the stadium), and no one could deliver in a reasonable amount of time. I wasn't sure how I was going to eat." Discussion ensued. The rest of the crowd was even a little shocked by this one. Particularly since there is literally a Safeway on the ground floor of her building.
Lol pm me the firm. It should be noted that most young big law lawyers eat mostly delivery because it's provided for free by the firm when they work late (which is usually). And a 50-somethin partner spending $250 on dinner is probably equivalent to me eating at Taco Bell on an income percent basis (median profits per partner in big law being around $1.3 million per year, and likely much higher for that guy)
LOL!
Yeah, while they make a lot of money, I don't think there is an amount of money that would be worth the sacrifice and toil it takes to get to that level....considering that BLaw partners work just as hard as they did while they were associates (don't know if this includes hustling new clients or becoming a 'rainmaker.')
I know a few people that are I-bankers and they have all their meals provided while they are working. It isn't because the company values them like Google and other places do, it's because they expect them to be there working insane hours. They are given a list of restaurants that they can order from and have it delivered. A few tell me that after a while the novelty wears off and foods taste the same.
Umm you must be mistaken. Google, Facebook etc do the free food for the exact same reasons that the banks/law firms do it: to keep the employees working longer. Especially in the beginning when Google wasn't paying the highest salaries, the free food was a big money saver for them (~$3k food cost per employee vs perceived value raises of ~$10k)
Do you have a source for the $3k food cost vs salary? I don't mistrust your numbers just curious to learn more.
Yeah for Google I saw it as a way or them to keep employees there longer. With young employees that are unmarried, I imagine it pays off well to feed them and have them access to most things they can need as this coupled with having many young people with similar interests around makes them more likely to stay and work, and it can help increase dialogue with people in different deparatments, creating new ideas.
My cousin (works at Google) told me that he heard that an ex-intern "lived" at Google for about a year after his internship before he was discovered and the people at Google weren't really mad at him, it sounded like they were impressed.
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I posted about this colleague's plans last year on this thread, and yesterday she announced that she's doing it!
Frugal colleague in her early 30s is taking a 10 month sabbatical from work to travel with her boyfriend before they settle down and have kids. They've been saving for a few years, have subletted their apartment, and are ready to hit the road in September. I'm so happy for her! I'm also selfishly excited for me because now that the precedent of taking a sabbatical has been set (she's the first), I may see if I can take one myself when DH and I pay off our mortgage in 2020 and I contemplate being a SAHM.
This colleague and I are travelling together for 2 weeks next month and are staying at a very expensive hotel (not our choice). We've already made plans to hit a grocery store on day 1 so we can stock our mini fridges with food and pocket our per diems instead of eating at the hotel restaurants.
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Background: My wife is a lawyer at a BigLaw firm. Last weekend, we were invited to one of the Partner's houses along with a bunch of co-workers as a way to get to know everyone. You couldn't ask for a more non-mustachian crowd. Here's a few of my favorite comments:
[20-something brand new lawyer] "My trip to Tokyo was amazing for the food. We waited in line for over 5 hours starting at 3:30am to get into an amazing Sushi place at the fish market". I refrained from asking whether they could have done a complete fishing charter and got their own fresh fish in that amount of time.
[50-something partner with her husband] "We went to an amazing restaurant last night. The food is served from a fixed menu, and you have to buy the $250 tickets (per person, excluding drinks) a month in advance. We don't trust UberX drivers, so we took an UberBlack (they live maybe 45 minutes away) for only $125 each way."
[same 20-something brand new lawyer] "I only really eat delivery. One time I nearly panicked because there was a Giants game going on (she lives across the street from the stadium), and no one could deliver in a reasonable amount of time. I wasn't sure how I was going to eat." Discussion ensued. The rest of the crowd was even a little shocked by this one. Particularly since there is literally a Safeway on the ground floor of her building.
Lol pm me the firm. It should be noted that most young big law lawyers eat mostly delivery because it's provided for free by the firm when they work late (which is usually). And a 50-somethin partner spending $250 on dinner is probably equivalent to me eating at Taco Bell on an income percent basis (median profits per partner in big law being around $1.3 million per year, and likely much higher for that guy)
LOL!
Yeah, while they make a lot of money, I don't think there is an amount of money that would be worth the sacrifice and toil it takes to get to that level....considering that BLaw partners work just as hard as they did while they were associates (don't know if this includes hustling new clients or becoming a 'rainmaker.')
I know a few people that are I-bankers and they have all their meals provided while they are working. It isn't because the company values them like Google and other places do, it's because they expect them to be there working insane hours. They are given a list of restaurants that they can order from and have it delivered. A few tell me that after a while the novelty wears off and foods taste the same.
Umm you must be mistaken. Google, Facebook etc do the free food for the exact same reasons that the banks/law firms do it: to keep the employees working longer. Especially in the beginning when Google wasn't paying the highest salaries, the free food was a big money saver for them (~$3k food cost per employee vs perceived value raises of ~$10k)
Do you have a source for the $3k food cost vs salary? I don't mistrust your numbers just curious to learn more.
Yeah for Google I saw it as a way or them to keep employees there longer. With young employees that are unmarried, I imagine it pays off well to feed them and have them access to most things they can need as this coupled with having many young people with similar interests around makes them more likely to stay and work, and it can help increase dialogue with people in different deparatments, creating new ideas.
My cousin (works at Google) told me that he heard that an ex-intern "lived" at Google for about a year after his internship before he was discovered and the people at Google weren't really mad at him, it sounded like they were impressed.
Hehe, made me go google it :) The number I remember (~$3750) came from a 2007 critique of Google culture by a former employee (he left MS to do a startup, was bought out by Google, worked at Google for a while then got sick of it and left). https://no2google.wordpress.com/2007/06/24/life-at-google-the-microsoftie-perspective/
This stuck with me because at the time I interviewed at Google and the culture seemed off to me (not wrong, just not right for me, too college after school special) and I couldn't put my finger on it until I read this and it all clicked.
More recent articles estimate food costs at Google now to be 5-8K per person.
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I've only been at my current job for just shy of 10 months, but I can tell that I'm having a small, but not negligible effect on my early 50's co-worker. She's a single lady, and has never been married, has a paid off 13 year old Hyundai Tiburon, and paid 40% down on her house (inheritance) 13 years ago. She once went crazy with a HELOC and owes $40k on it. Between that, and her $80k mortgage, she has no other debt. She's shy in asking for help, but not helpless herself. Very reliable worker also.
In the past 6 months, her car has been "nickel and diming" her to death and she has started to suggest that she is on the verge of buying a new car to hold her out until her retirement age. I instantly go in to daydream mode, imagining with dread the thought of seeing her roll into the parking lot in a new 2016 Dodge Dart that she envies. ($20k+tax for the model she likes)
I tell her, "You know, buying a new car will cost you a MINIMUM of $350/mo, plus your full coverage insurance on a much more expensive car. Your latest car expense is only about 3 months of car payments. At this rate, if you can afford the new car payment, you can afford to repair this car 3 more times this year and still come out ahead."
Then she has a fender bender in the parking lot, and her $1000 deductible is used up, and she's moaning again. And I reminder, it's better than buying a new car and watching that $450/mo go out the window. You're the original owner of your current car, and it's still the cheaper option.
Gratefully, she excepts my advice with an open mind, so I feel free offering it.
Then, over the course of normal conversation, I learn that she's paying 5.5% on her home loan. I eagerly suggest that she contact her bank (along with others) and ask about refinancing, and I suggest that she roll in her HELOC into this new mortgage as long as the interest rate is lower (it will be) . In our area, 3.75% for a 15 year mortgage would cut 2 years off her loan, saving her over $22k in payments, and would save her an additional $200-$250/mo over the life of her loan, saving another $36k minimum.
I flat out told her, "Refinancing to 3.75% will save you over $50k depending on the refinancing costs your bank charges. I'll go with you to the bank if you make an appointment!"
Two months later, she say's, "Alex, I called my bank, and I have asked about refinancing. Is there anything I should know about it before going in there?"
I gave her some info, and offered again to go with her. She's not shy about her finances with me, so she told me if she's nervous when the time comes, she'll ask, but not to worry about it.
I'm stoked!
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I gave her some info, and offered again to go with her. She's not shy about her finances with me, so she told me if she's nervous when the time comes, she'll ask, but not to worry about it.
I'm stoked!
You're the man!
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My boss is very thrifty with his money. Doesn't go out for lunch, his wife packs him a cooler full of food. Only goes for a leaving lunch for a valuable co-worker.
If he hears that people are paying ridiculous interest rates on mortgages, he jumps on them to get refinancing. And he won't let up until it is done.
We have several VG funds in our 401k, including VINIX, VEMPX, and VBMPX, ER 0.04-0.05%, with a 4% match for your first 6%. He gets mad if employees don't contribute, lectures them about leaving free money on the table.
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Then, recently, someone complimented him on a new dress shirt. He responded with,
"thanks, I got for last week for $4."
Dang, maybe I need to check out thrift shops. I try to make it a point to never spend more then $20-25 on my dress shirts, although sometimes I do. You can find really nice fitting stuff in that price range if you shop at the right places, sometimes name brand. Never thought of a thrift shop though
Thrift shop success might be regional though. We checked out our local Goodwill again the other day and what they carried were quite used and dated looking. There were a few things worth buying but we're in a small town. I wonder if the thrift shops are better stocked in bigger cities.
We rarely shop for clothes. I buy alot of duplicates - two or three of the same thing in different colors. I guess I can get away with that as a male. We just look for sales and then treat the clothes well enough to make them last several years. My job doesn't require a suit or a tie, just look neat and tidy.
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I wonder if the thrift shops are better stocked in bigger cities.
They are. I used to live in a big city - found great stuff in thrift stores. Now I'm near a small town - used walmart clothing is what's there. At that price, I'll buy new Old Navy for the kid - costs the same as the thrift store and gets delivered to my door.
Caveat: if you live near a place that's one of those rich-people villages (you know - big houses, cute restaurants, near a river or lake, usually populated by people who subsist on outside/inherited money...), the thrift stores THERE Are 100% worth going to. If you're in Quebec, check out North Hatley, for example. Non-chain thrift stores in rich communities, basically.
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Really, I'm posting to follow, but I do remember a guy who bought a fancy new corvette and then resorted to saying "This is not a mid-life crisis car" every time someone admired it. Ha! Dude, that was totally a mid-life crisis car. There was no way he could afford that car. Had to sell it soon after.
Maybe this isn't a situation in other states but mine has sales tax on vehicles. Sort of precludes car hopping in my mind.
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For thrift stores, look at different areas. We took a ride one weekend and ended up in "horse country". Few houses, but lots of horses. Found a thrift store run by a local church and hit a gold mine. Lots of expensive clothes, etc. for next to nothing. Bought two great sweaters that lasted us another 10 years. Look for thrift stores outside your normal area, and you might find gold.
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Met a true badass at work! He is retired, but he came back to do a part time project he really likes. And he bikes to work... 14 miles one way, so 28 miles a day.
Not bad for a 75 year old!
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That is a super bike commute. Is the earth flat where you live?
14 miles here would be quite the commute b/c of the hills. I've done it but I am far from presentable afterwards.
When I travel through flat states I actually have daydreams of riding distances like that casually for work and fun.
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A woman I work with started biking to work recently. I casually asked her about it and she said she figured that way she wouldn't have to find time to go to the gym, so she's saving money on both gym fees and gas. I told her I'd been thinking about biking to work myself since I live pretty close....
...that's when she told me she lives about 15 miles away.
And I suddenly felt like the least mustachian person on earth.
:)
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That is a super bike commute. Is the earth flat where you live?
14 miles here would be quite the commute b/c of the hills. I've done it but I am far from presentable afterwards.
When I travel through flat states I actually have daydreams of riding distances like that casually for work and fun.
The Netherlands: flat as a pancake and very bike friendly. I do have a friend that has a 16 mile commute she bikes. Every. Single. Day. Rain or shine. She is incredibly badass.
I was just starting to type all the reasons why I can't/won't do it but I realize I'm being a complainypants. I have done the bike commute (13 miles one way) a few times before and I did enjoy it. I stopped because it was just a bit too much for me.
So let's see if I can't talk myself into this...
- It would take a long time: yep. It's not a workout, it's a commute. It's okay not to race to get there fast and gushing sweat out of every pore. Enjoy the ride, take it easy.
- I don't like being sweaty and then meeting clients: if I leave early and bring a change of clothes, I can wash up a bit and be fresh as a daisy before my coworkers arrive, let alone clients.
- I would have to leave home at 6AM: that's not bad, lay out everything the night before and just get up at 5.55. Munch on a banana whilst biking. It's already light at that time (at least during summer), so it shouldn't feel like the dead of night. And biking will wake you up gradually, so my brain can remain in zombie mode easily.
- It's too tiring: that's because I am in terrible shape. Biking is really the solution.
- Morning commute might be okay, but I don't want to lose too much of my evening time: well, that's true... I enjoy having friends over for dinner, I have a little sidegig right after work one night a week and also need to have some downtime. When evenings are short, every hour counts. I suppose this'll take a bit of planning. I should realize I am swapping my time for something I really need to care about: my health.
- It might rain: it might well rain, it's the Netherlands after all. That's why we have rain coats and rain pants. I'm not made out of sugar.
- My butt will hurt: that's because it's soft and flabby.
Maybe it's all about balance. Biking every single day is not in the cards right now, as I have planned meetings/dinners/sidegigs for 2-3 nights a week for the coming 2 months. So maybe I'll start biking 1 day a week. That leaves me with some downtime as well.
So that 75 year old bad ass geezer made me feel like a total wuss. See if I can up my badassity.
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Ah ja, the Netherlands! Was there in march and april. Lighted bike roads! Hundreds of bikes parked at the train station but only a few cars. Also lots of bumpers which is not good if you are sitting at the end in a mini bus with a driver that is used to a jeep like car. ouch! ouch! ouch!
Also liked Jumbo.
It was really depressing though when I was constantly overtaken on my bike by 70+ year old woman. Granted, some had electric bikes but not all. Hell, I was driving 20kmh against a strong wind. Sweating. And they sit there erect on the bike and swiiisch overtake me :(
And once on my way to Jumbo all I could do was to keep up with that 1-gear riding 85 year old looking thin man.
What I really wanted to say to Nederstash was just: Have you tried electric bike? For this long commute I would consider it an investment ;)
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Ah ja, the Netherlands! Was there in march and april. Lighted bike roads! Hundreds of bikes parked at the train station but only a few cars. Also lots of bumpers which is not good if you are sitting at the end in a mini bus with a driver that is used to a jeep like car. ouch! ouch! ouch!
Also liked Jumbo.
It was really depressing though when I was constantly overtaken on my bike by 70+ year old woman. Granted, some had electric bikes but not all. Hell, I was driving 20kmh against a strong wind. Sweating. And they sit there erect on the bike and swiiisch overtake me :(
And once on my way to Jumbo all I could do was to keep up with that 1-gear riding 85 year old looking thin man.
What I really wanted to say to Nederstash was just: Have you tried electric bike? For this long commute I would consider it an investment ;)
Noooo way man. That's like side wheels or helmets. The true Dutch bike. On a ratty rambling carcass of a bike covered in rust, bought for 30 bucks off Marktplaats (our craigslist) that squeaks when you brake.
I would get ostracized like a Viking wearing a life vest.
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I don't think pharmacy tech. I'm a pharmacist, been one for 22 years. I have 480K. Now, I didn't invest the maximum in the early years, only enough to get the match--sigh. My tech's start at $12 and max out at $17.
She said she is a pharmacy tech. And to answer the other question I am suggesting this is very impressive given her circumstances.
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I don't get to contribute to this thread often, so when I overhear something like this at work I get excited!
CW1: Damn, I forgot my banana at home today. I hate not having a banana for breakfast.
CW2: Why don't you go buy one from the sandwich shop downstairs?
CW1: I ain't paying $0.75 for one damn banana!
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I don't get to contribute to this thread often, so when I overhear something like this at work I get excited!
CW1: Damn, I forgot my banana at home today. I hate not having a banana for breakfast.
CW2: Why don't you go buy one from the sandwich shop downstairs?
CW1: I ain't paying $0.75 for one damn banana!
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I don't get to contribute to this thread often, so when I overhear something like this at work I get excited!
CW1: Damn, I forgot my banana at home today. I hate not having a banana for breakfast.
CW2: Why don't you go buy one from the sandwich shop downstairs?
CW1: I ain't paying $0.75 for one damn banana!
Ah, I miss that show
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A friend/co-worker and I are racing each other to be able to FIRE quit.
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Not at work, but overheard on the shuttle to work, so I'm counting it.
I live between two train stations. I looked them up online, and they're in different zones. So I was able to get the tickets for the cheaper zone
Assuming he takes the train 5 days a week, twice a day, that'll save him ~$5 per week.
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I sent one of my co-workers the JL Collins Stock Series last week (we'd chatted a bit about finance before, she knows our FIRE plans), and this morning she told me she switched her 403b allocation to the index fund from the managed one!
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Two co-workers discussing why we were going through more coffee at the office:
D: I quit buying coffee on the way to work.
A: Me too, it adds up.
Me: (Silent high five.)
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Not at work, but overheard on the shuttle to work, so I'm counting it.
I live between two train stations. I looked them up online, and they're in different zones. So I was able to get the tickets for the cheaper zone
Assuming he takes the train 5 days a week, twice a day, that'll save him ~$5 per week.
I was dog watching for a week out in the burbs and taking the train in. Same deal. I took the more expensive one because it was between 10 and 20 minutes to get out of the parking lot at the cheaper option.
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Not my work, but my husband's:
Coworker is biking 20 miles each way to work while he waits for his new car to come in at the dealership. He figures this saves him $2000 because is old car is making a burning smell, and not driving it is preserving the $2000 trade in value. He plans to drive it exactly one more time, to the dealership as trade-in when the new car arrives.
I know, I know, new car isn't generally Mustachian but 20 miles really impressed me and I had to share.
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Not my work, but my husband's:
Coworker is biking 20 miles each way to work while he waits for his new car to come in at the dealership. He figures this saves him $2000 because is old car is making a burning smell, and not driving it is preserving the $2000 trade in value. He plans to drive it exactly one more time, to the dealership as trade-in when the new car arrives.
I know, I know, new car isn't generally Mustachian but 20 miles really impressed me and I had to share.
Sounds like the kind of guy who buys a new car every 20 years. I'd allow it as Mustachian.
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Then, recently, someone complimented him on a new dress shirt. He responded with,
"thanks, I got for last week for $4."
Dang, maybe I need to check out thrift shops. I try to make it a point to never spend more then $20-25 on my dress shirts, although sometimes I do. You can find really nice fitting stuff in that price range if you shop at the right places, sometimes name brand. Never thought of a thrift shop though
I wish the Goodwill locations around here were like that. They want like $18 for a used dress shirt. I get them for half that at the department store at the semi-annual deep clearance racks.
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Then, recently, someone complimented him on a new dress shirt. He responded with,
"thanks, I got for last week for $4."
Dang, maybe I need to check out thrift shops. I try to make it a point to never spend more then $20-25 on my dress shirts, although sometimes I do. You can find really nice fitting stuff in that price range if you shop at the right places, sometimes name brand. Never thought of a thrift shop though
I wish the Goodwill locations around here were like that. They want like $18 for a used dress shirt. I get them for half that at the department store at the semi-annual deep clearance racks.
Yeah, the local thrift stores sells used Old Navy and Walmart kid clothing for about the same price as the store sale price, new. Like, if I'm gonna pay 5$ for toddler shorts, at least old navy delivers them to my door...
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Exit interview for one of my employees turned into a 3 hour chat about whatever came up.
Emp: "Yeah, so (General Manager) came down yesterday and we chatted between shows. He randomly started giving me financial advice."
Me: "The only financial advice he's ever given me is 'don't invest in stocks'".
Emp: "Really? That's odd. I just dumped about $5000 into a Vanguard ETF."
Me: "Right? Vanguard has all my investments, too."
Employee/Friend was a $10/hour part timer. He's going into statistics. He'll be fine. :)
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Background: My wife is a lawyer at a BigLaw firm. Last weekend, we were invited to one of the Partner's houses along with a bunch of co-workers as a way to get to know everyone. You couldn't ask for a more non-mustachian crowd. Here's a few of my favorite comments:
[20-something brand new lawyer] "My trip to Tokyo was amazing for the food. We waited in line for over 5 hours starting at 3:30am to get into an amazing Sushi place at the fish market". I refrained from asking whether they could have done a complete fishing charter and got their own fresh fish in that amount of time.
[50-something partner with her husband] "We went to an amazing restaurant last night. The food is served from a fixed menu, and you have to buy the $250 tickets (per person, excluding drinks) a month in advance. We don't trust UberX drivers, so we took an UberBlack (they live maybe 45 minutes away) for only $125 each way."
[same 20-something brand new lawyer] "I only really eat delivery. One time I nearly panicked because there was a Giants game going on (she lives across the street from the stadium), and no one could deliver in a reasonable amount of time. I wasn't sure how I was going to eat." Discussion ensued. The rest of the crowd was even a little shocked by this one. Particularly since there is literally a Safeway on the ground floor of her building.
Lol pm me the firm. It should be noted that most young big law lawyers eat mostly delivery because it's provided for free by the firm when they work late (which is usually). And a 50-somethin partner spending $250 on dinner is probably equivalent to me eating at Taco Bell on an income percent basis (median profits per partner in big law being around $1.3 million per year, and likely much higher for that guy)
LOL!
Yeah, while they make a lot of money, I don't think there is an amount of money that would be worth the sacrifice and toil it takes to get to that level....considering that BLaw partners work just as hard as they did while they were associates (don't know if this includes hustling new clients or becoming a 'rainmaker.')
I know a few people that are I-bankers and they have all their meals provided while they are working. It isn't because the company values them like Google and other places do, it's because they expect them to be there working insane hours. They are given a list of restaurants that they can order from and have it delivered. A few tell me that after a while the novelty wears off and foods taste the same.
Umm you must be mistaken. Google, Facebook etc do the free food for the exact same reasons that the banks/law firms do it: to keep the employees working longer. Especially in the beginning when Google wasn't paying the highest salaries, the free food was a big money saver for them (~$3k food cost per employee vs perceived value raises of ~$10k)
Do you have a source for the $3k food cost vs salary? I don't mistrust your numbers just curious to learn more.
Yeah for Google I saw it as a way or them to keep employees there longer. With young employees that are unmarried, I imagine it pays off well to feed them and have them access to most things they can need as this coupled with having many young people with similar interests around makes them more likely to stay and work, and it can help increase dialogue with people in different deparatments, creating new ideas.
My cousin (works at Google) told me that he heard that an ex-intern "lived" at Google for about a year after his internship before he was discovered and the people at Google weren't really mad at him, it sounded like they were impressed.
We currently have an intern "living" in our building m-f. He goes to school during the day, does his office job with us at night, and then sleeps in his office. He's not supposed to, but we've turned a blind eye because he's a nice guy.
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Work at a large tech company (100k+) employees, with our site being ~2500 employees.
Our site manager who probably pulls in 500k a year drove a rusted 1998 Ford F150 to work every day. Really cool guy who loved to chat about beer and physics while in worn jeans and a t-shirt. He left our site to move even higher up the corporate ladder to report to the CEO.
Found out that he just told them to f-off and that he was done with the corporate BS. He’s retired now at 45, fishing every day.
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Our company was just bought out, and the stock price took quite the jump. All around the water cooler people were somewhat lamenting that they didn't have more company stock in their 401k's. The overall theme was "Damnit, I had to go and put it in the low cost index fund, hahahah!"--with the general tone of knowing that it wouldn't have been a good idea, it just would have been a nice bump.
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I certainly do not advocate putting all of your money in company stock (Enron?) but I do like to keep part of my money there.
I just did my mid-year NW review and I have about 9% in company stock. Most of that is in options that I cash out slowly due to the tax consequences.
How much of your portfolio should be in company stock? That is a personal decision driven by your financial situation and your opinion on the health of the company. In my case if it gets over 10% I reallocate.
Our company was just bought out, and the stock price took quite the jump. All around the water cooler people were somewhat lamenting that they didn't have more company stock in their 401k's. The overall theme was "Damnit, I had to go and put it in the low cost index fund, hahahah!"--with the general tone of knowing that it wouldn't have been a good idea, it just would have been a nice bump.
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I certainly do not advocate putting all of your money in company stock (Enron?) but I do like to keep part of my money there.
I just did my mid-year NW review and I have about 9% in company stock. Most of that is in options that I cash out slowly due to the tax consequences.
How much of your portfolio should be in company stock? That is a personal decision driven by your financial situation and your opinion on the health of the company. In my case if it gets over 10% I reallocate.
Our company was just bought out, and the stock price took quite the jump. All around the water cooler people were somewhat lamenting that they didn't have more company stock in their 401k's. The overall theme was "Damnit, I had to go and put it in the low cost index fund, hahahah!"--with the general tone of knowing that it wouldn't have been a good idea, it just would have been a nice bump.
I think everyone agrees. 10% seems high to me, but not overly high--I think most people were between 3 and 7%. I was at around 10% myself (all dividends and I think company matches go into company stock); after the announcement it was quite a bit higher. I just reallocated to 0% though, the price is basically where it is for the next year or so until the deal is executed or the deal falls through (in which case I don't want to be in company stock anyways).
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I certainly do not advocate putting all of your money in company stock (Enron?) but I do like to keep part of my money there.
I just did my mid-year NW review and I have about 9% in company stock. Most of that is in options that I cash out slowly due to the tax consequences.
How much of your portfolio should be in company stock? That is a personal decision driven by your financial situation and your opinion on the health of the company. In my case if it gets over 10% I reallocate.
Our company was just bought out, and the stock price took quite the jump. All around the water cooler people were somewhat lamenting that they didn't have more company stock in their 401k's. The overall theme was "Damnit, I had to go and put it in the low cost index fund, hahahah!"--with the general tone of knowing that it wouldn't have been a good idea, it just would have been a nice bump.
I have 0 in stock, but then I work for a startup company. My policy is "same day sale".
So, if we go public or get bought "some day", I'll make a little money.
If we go belly up, then, well, I'm not losing money.
My prior start-up got bought before I was vested. I had the same philosophy then. For the options, same day sale. For the ESPP, sell within a week of getting the shares.
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I certainly do not advocate putting all of your money in company stock (Enron?) but I do like to keep part of my money there.
I just did my mid-year NW review and I have about 9% in company stock. Most of that is in options that I cash out slowly due to the tax consequences.
How much of your portfolio should be in company stock? That is a personal decision driven by your financial situation and your opinion on the health of the company. In my case if it gets over 10% I reallocate.
Our company was just bought out, and the stock price took quite the jump. All around the water cooler people were somewhat lamenting that they didn't have more company stock in their 401k's. The overall theme was "Damnit, I had to go and put it in the low cost index fund, hahahah!"--with the general tone of knowing that it wouldn't have been a good idea, it just would have been a nice bump.
I have 0 in stock, but then I work for a startup company. My policy is "same day sale".
So, if we go public or get bought "some day", I'll make a little money.
If we go belly up, then, well, I'm not losing money.
My prior start-up got bought before I was vested. I had the same philosophy then. For the options, same day sale. For the ESPP, sell within a week of getting the shares.
How do you sell if it's not public? You use a secondary market?
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Was interviewing a potential new employee, she asked after our retirement provisions.
She's 22. And I hired her, of course.
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Was interviewing a potential new employee, she asked after our retirement provisions.
She's 22. And I hired her, of course.
My wife declined a job in part because there was no 401k. Don't think she would have done that without me, but still. (She was 26 at the time)
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CW1: "I'm retiring August 1st"
CW2: "What are doing after that"
CW1: "Will still be here - going to DROP"
CW2: "Nice!"
CW1: "Also saving the 3% retirement contribution that I won't have to make any more into deferred comp (457) as well."
Me (silently): "WOOOOO!"
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I certainly do not advocate putting all of your money in company stock (Enron?) but I do like to keep part of my money there.
I just did my mid-year NW review and I have about 9% in company stock. Most of that is in options that I cash out slowly due to the tax consequences.
How much of your portfolio should be in company stock? That is a personal decision driven by your financial situation and your opinion on the health of the company. In my case if it gets over 10% I reallocate.
Our company was just bought out, and the stock price took quite the jump. All around the water cooler people were somewhat lamenting that they didn't have more company stock in their 401k's. The overall theme was "Damnit, I had to go and put it in the low cost index fund, hahahah!"--with the general tone of knowing that it wouldn't have been a good idea, it just would have been a nice bump.
I have 0 in stock, but then I work for a startup company. My policy is "same day sale".
So, if we go public or get bought "some day", I'll make a little money.
If we go belly up, then, well, I'm not losing money.
My prior start-up got bought before I was vested. I had the same philosophy then. For the options, same day sale. For the ESPP, sell within a week of getting the shares.
How do you sell if it's not public? You use a secondary market?
Well I never sold except after we were public. So the prior company, we got bought and my options were transferred to the public entity. But with same vesting schedule (and a reduced # of shares). I sold the public shares when vested.
With the current company, they are just options. I won't exercise them unless we are public some day.
But yes, you can sell shares in a non-public company. One of my former coworkers was an early employee and left. He decided to buy some of his shares, but had to pay taxes on the "earnings" at that point. In order to afford the taxes, he would have to sell some shares. In this case, the company gets right of first refusal. So they could choose to buy his shares or say yay or nay to the sale. In the end, another coworker bought some of his shares from him.
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Was interviewing a potential new employee, she asked after our retirement provisions.
She's 22. And I hired her, of course.
You've interviewed people who DIDN'T ask about this?
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Was interviewing a potential new employee, she asked after our retirement provisions.
She's 22. And I hired her, of course.
You've interviewed people who DIDN'T ask about this?
She was the first one who actually asked. Not sure why no one asks... Maybe it's a Dutch thing?
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Was interviewing a potential new employee, she asked after our retirement provisions.
She's 22. And I hired her, of course.
You've interviewed people who DIDN'T ask about this?
I don't typically ask about it in the interview. If I get an offer, I'll always ask and investigate.
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Was interviewing a potential new employee, she asked after our retirement provisions.
She's 22. And I hired her, of course.
You've interviewed people who DIDN'T ask about this?
I don't typically ask about it in the interview. If I get an offer, I'll always ask and investigate.
Yeah,it's part of the benefits package so a bit premature to ask about in the interview. Kinda like asking about the salary. Plus, most job listings will already advertise if there is a 401k, etc
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Was interviewing a potential new employee, she asked after our retirement provisions.
She's 22. And I hired her, of course.
You've interviewed people who DIDN'T ask about this?
I don't typically ask about it in the interview. If I get an offer, I'll always ask and investigate.
Yeah,it's part of the benefits package so a bit premature to ask about in the interview. Kinda like asking about the salary. Plus, most job listings will already advertise if there is a 401k, etc
Yeah, but she's 22. Pretty new in the workforce. Bound to make missteps. I have interviewed 22-year-olds who were inappropriately dressed or gave me references that turned out to have issued formal reprimands against the interviewee. In contrast, asking about the 401(k) is a really good mistake to make.
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or gave me references that turned out to have issued formal reprimands against the interviewee. In contrast, asking about the 401(k) is a really good mistake to make.
One time, a list of references included a colleague.
Asked about the potential hire, the reference said "I wouldn't touch [the potential hire] with a ten foot pole"
I thought that was a bit harsh, but if you can't choose good references, it is a bad sign.
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or gave me references that turned out to have issued formal reprimands against the interviewee. In contrast, asking about the 401(k) is a really good mistake to make.
One time, a list of references included a colleague.
Asked about the potential hire, the reference said "I wouldn't touch [the potential hire] with a ten foot pole"
I thought that was a bit harsh, but if you can't choose good references, it is a bad sign.
Alternatively, that reference wanted to keep [the potential hire] on their team and the easiest way to do so is giving a bad reference?
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Ender ,
The potential hire had not been with the company for some years, no conflict of interest on the references part. The previous job was pretty demanding physical labor, low skill, while the hiring position was very fast paced technical lab work.
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Ah ja, the Netherlands! Was there in march and april. Lighted bike roads! Hundreds of bikes parked at the train station but only a few cars. Also lots of bumpers which is not good if you are sitting at the end in a mini bus with a driver that is used to a jeep like car. ouch! ouch! ouch!
Also liked Jumbo.
It was really depressing though when I was constantly overtaken on my bike by 70+ year old woman. Granted, some had electric bikes but not all. Hell, I was driving 20kmh against a strong wind. Sweating. And they sit there erect on the bike and swiiisch overtake me :(
And once on my way to Jumbo all I could do was to keep up with that 1-gear riding 85 year old looking thin man.
What I really wanted to say to Nederstash was just: Have you tried electric bike? For this long commute I would consider it an investment ;)
Noooo way man. That's like side wheels or helmets. The true Dutch bike. On a ratty rambling carcass of a bike covered in rust, bought for 30 bucks off Marktplaats (our craigslist) that squeaks when you brake.
I would get ostracized like a Viking wearing a life vest.
Nederstash, you should really look into the electric bicycles! I have a 18 km commute and it is a bit hilly here in Flanders where I live. Since discovering the money moustache site and deciding I needed to step up my badassity I am now using my girlfriends (yes a womens electric bike) to go to work about 4 times a week. It's faster, you are not sweaty when getting to work and you still get a decent exercise + in Belgium we have decent compensation for using a bicycle as a commute = 160 euro extra a month!! Isn't it mustachian to not give a flying F**** about what other people think of you?
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or gave me references that turned out to have issued formal reprimands against the interviewee. In contrast, asking about the 401(k) is a really good mistake to make.
One time, a list of references included a colleague.
Asked about the potential hire, the reference said "I wouldn't touch [the potential hire] with a ten foot pole"
I thought that was a bit harsh, but if you can't choose good references, it is a bad sign.
Alternatively, that reference wanted to keep [the potential hire] on their team and the easiest way to do so is giving a bad reference?
Yup, that can happen.
In business a lot of customers (these are businesses) want Net 30 terms, which is fine if they go through our credit check. Part of this consists of supplying references from other companies in which they have terms. A few times we've heard back from these references that they owe money or other problems, and sometimes it's very obvious that they simply just don't want us to sell to them and so are lying.
I remember one time this happened, the company that was lying wanted to place a good size order with us and we insist on cash payment (no terms) and the owner refused and said that he would pay. I showed him a copy of his reference response and he wired payment before we shipped.
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At the job we have two huge fridges to store people's lunches. Our own department has little fridge for the same exact reason. Lunchroom is busy around noon as well. Top managers are not shy to bring their own lunch and take public transportation every day.
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Wasn't work, but saw at a public park:
(http://i65.tinypic.com/sbnfgj.jpg)
"COMPOUND INTEREST - INVEST EARLY, RETIRE EARLY" and "DIVERSIFY YOUR BONDS".
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"COMPOUND INTEREST - INVEST EARLY, RETIRE EARLY" and "DIVERSIFY YOUR BONDS".
You need to diversify [yo bonds nigga]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8Z6qWRugCY
The full clip of wu tang financial here:
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/tw2ltp/chappelle-s-show-wu-tang-financial---uncensored
[MOD EDIT: No.]
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I've only been at my current job for just shy of 10 months, but I can tell that I'm having a small, but not negligible effect on my early 50's co-worker. She's a single lady, and has never been married, has a paid off 13 year old Hyundai Tiburon, and paid 40% down on her house (inheritance) 13 years ago. She once went crazy with a HELOC and owes $40k on it. Between that, and her $80k mortgage, she has no other debt. She's shy in asking for help, but not helpless herself. Very reliable worker also.
In the past 6 months, her car has been "nickel and diming" her to death and she has started to suggest that she is on the verge of buying a new car to hold her out until her retirement age. I instantly go in to daydream mode, imagining with dread the thought of seeing her roll into the parking lot in a new 2016 Dodge Dart that she envies. ($20k+tax for the model she likes)
I tell her, "You know, buying a new car will cost you a MINIMUM of $350/mo, plus your full coverage insurance on a much more expensive car. Your latest car expense is only about 3 months of car payments. At this rate, if you can afford the new car payment, you can afford to repair this car 3 more times this year and still come out ahead."
Then she has a fender bender in the parking lot, and her $1000 deductible is used up, and she's moaning again. And I reminder, it's better than buying a new car and watching that $450/mo go out the window. You're the original owner of your current car, and it's still the cheaper option.
Gratefully, she excepts my advice with an open mind, so I feel free offering it.
Then, over the course of normal conversation, I learn that she's paying 5.5% on her home loan. I eagerly suggest that she contact her bank (along with others) and ask about refinancing, and I suggest that she roll in her HELOC into this new mortgage as long as the interest rate is lower (it will be) . In our area, 3.75% for a 15 year mortgage would cut 2 years off her loan, saving her over $22k in payments, and would save her an additional $200-$250/mo over the life of her loan, saving another $36k minimum.
I flat out told her, "Refinancing to 3.75% will save you over $50k depending on the refinancing costs your bank charges. I'll go with you to the bank if you make an appointment!"
Two months later, she say's, "Alex, I called my bank, and I have asked about refinancing. Is there anything I should know about it before going in there?"
I gave her some info, and offered again to go with her. She's not shy about her finances with me, so she told me if she's nervous when the time comes, she'll ask, but not to worry about it.
I'm stoked!
EXCELLENT!!!! : )
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I've only been at my current job for just shy of 10 months, but I can tell that I'm having a small, but not negligible effect on my early 50's co-worker. She's a single lady, and has never been married, has a paid off 13 year old Hyundai Tiburon, and paid 40% down on her house (inheritance) 13 years ago. She once went crazy with a HELOC and owes $40k on it. Between that, and her $80k mortgage, she has no other debt. She's shy in asking for help, but not helpless herself. Very reliable worker also.
In the past 6 months, her car has been "nickel and diming" her to death and she has started to suggest that she is on the verge of buying a new car to hold her out until her retirement age. I instantly go in to daydream mode, imagining with dread the thought of seeing her roll into the parking lot in a new 2016 Dodge Dart that she envies. ($20k+tax for the model she likes)
I tell her, "You know, buying a new car will cost you a MINIMUM of $350/mo, plus your full coverage insurance on a much more expensive car. Your latest car expense is only about 3 months of car payments. At this rate, if you can afford the new car payment, you can afford to repair this car 3 more times this year and still come out ahead."
Then she has a fender bender in the parking lot, and her $1000 deductible is used up, and she's moaning again. And I reminder, it's better than buying a new car and watching that $450/mo go out the window. You're the original owner of your current car, and it's still the cheaper option.
Gratefully, she excepts my advice with an open mind, so I feel free offering it.
Then, over the course of normal conversation, I learn that she's paying 5.5% on her home loan. I eagerly suggest that she contact her bank (along with others) and ask about refinancing, and I suggest that she roll in her HELOC into this new mortgage as long as the interest rate is lower (it will be) . In our area, 3.75% for a 15 year mortgage would cut 2 years off her loan, saving her over $22k in payments, and would save her an additional $200-$250/mo over the life of her loan, saving another $36k minimum.
I flat out told her, "Refinancing to 3.75% will save you over $50k depending on the refinancing costs your bank charges. I'll go with you to the bank if you make an appointment!"
Two months later, she say's, "Alex, I called my bank, and I have asked about refinancing. Is there anything I should know about it before going in there?"
I gave her some info, and offered again to go with her. She's not shy about her finances with me, so she told me if she's nervous when the time comes, she'll ask, but not to worry about it.
I'm stoked!
EXCELLENT!!!! : )
Update...
She has had her house appraised, and the new financing rate will be roughly 3.5%. The down side? She's refinancing, but throwing $10k on top of her refinance to buy a new car. I'm trying to talk her into buying a certified pre-owned (the closest thing to new that I have any chance of convincing her on), but I'm nearly certain she's set to buy a small SUV for $25k'ish. She's negating about half of the total cost savings she'll net in terms of the refi, so she's still coming out ahead, but damnit, her car is STILL getting her to work everyday without a problem at all!
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I was talking with one of my coworkers about house projects, and he said "Now that I'm older and making more money I can afford to have this stuff done -- but I try to resist temptation and do as many projects myself as I can."
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I was talking to the new guy at work today during my lunch break, and out of the blue he mentioned that he was thinking about biking in to work since he only lives a mile away. Mainly for the purpose of Pokemon Go-ing, but did bring up exercise and saving gas money as side benefits.
ONE MORE PERSON OUT THERE WHO ISN'T A TOTAL IDIOT!
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I was talking to the new guy at work today during my lunch break, and out of the blue he mentioned that he was thinking about biking in to work since he only lives a mile away. Mainly for the purpose of Pokemon Go-ing, but did bring up exercise and saving gas money as side benefits.
ONE MORE PERSON OUT THERE WHO ISN'T A TOTAL IDIOT!
LOL -- one mile away . . . so of course my first thought is that he is switching from walking to biking . . . until I read the part about "gas." One mile doesn't even give a engine enough time to reach proper operating temperature, does it? :)
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There were only 3 of us sitting at lunch today (devops were all in a lunch-and-learn elsewhere). Had a lovely discussion with my two colleagues regarding retirement, investments, etc. One is already pretty mustachian, I'd already spoken to him about it and I've introduced him to MMM.
The other is currently getting out of debt (poor decisions in his twenties along with being a freelancer with no financial discipline). This one told us about his strict new budget with his new live-in partner, how he's using the snowball method to pay off his debts, and will then be rolling those equivalent payments into what he can save for retirement and for his little girl's education. He didn't really understand what our company's retirement package looked like, what certain things mean (like MER), and what not, but seemed really interested when we explained these things.
Just sent him MMM and Canadian Couch Potato, and he said "thanks so much, I'll read this this weekend for sure!". Baby steps, but I think it's awesome for him.
Becoming interested in these things is the first step.
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I was talking to the new guy at work today during my lunch break, and out of the blue he mentioned that he was thinking about biking in to work since he only lives a mile away. Mainly for the purpose of Pokemon Go-ing, but did bring up exercise and saving gas money as side benefits.
ONE MORE PERSON OUT THERE WHO ISN'T A TOTAL IDIOT!
LOL -- one mile away . . . so of course my first thought is that he is switching from walking to biking . . . until I read the part about "gas." One mile doesn't even give a engine enough time to reach proper operating temperature, does it? :)
Gas can be involved when walking or biking. Especially if you've been on a rice and beans diet.
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I was talking to the new guy at work today during my lunch break, and out of the blue he mentioned that he was thinking about biking in to work since he only lives a mile away. Mainly for the purpose of Pokemon Go-ing, but did bring up exercise and saving gas money as side benefits.
ONE MORE PERSON OUT THERE WHO ISN'T A TOTAL IDIOT!
Just a mile? I'd walk it instead of having to get the bike out of the house/apt/residence, make sure there's enough tire pressure, lock it at work, worry about it getting stolen, etc.
Or is there not a sidewalk or something?
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I was talking to the new guy at work today during my lunch break, and out of the blue he mentioned that he was thinking about biking in to work since he only lives a mile away. Mainly for the purpose of Pokemon Go-ing, but did bring up exercise and saving gas money as side benefits.
ONE MORE PERSON OUT THERE WHO ISN'T A TOTAL IDIOT!
Just a mile? I'd walk it instead of having to get the bike out of the house/apt/residence, make sure there's enough tire pressure, lock it at work, worry about it getting stolen, etc.
Or is there not a sidewalk or something?
Dont you have a mustachian got-it-used-for-20-bucks bike where you dont have to worry about the bike getting stolen?
I mean for such a short distance a 1-gear is all you need, nothing fancy like for the 8 mile run.
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I was talking to the new guy at work today during my lunch break, and out of the blue he mentioned that he was thinking about biking in to work since he only lives a mile away. Mainly for the purpose of Pokemon Go-ing, but did bring up exercise and saving gas money as side benefits.
ONE MORE PERSON OUT THERE WHO ISN'T A TOTAL IDIOT!
Just a mile? I'd walk it instead of having to get the bike out of the house/apt/residence, make sure there's enough tire pressure, lock it at work, worry about it getting stolen, etc.
Or is there not a sidewalk or something?
Dont you have a mustachian got-it-used-for-20-bucks bike where you dont have to worry about the bike getting stolen?
I mean for such a short distance a 1-gear is all you need, nothing fancy like for the 8 mile run.
No because I have limited space in my apartment and I'd have nowhere to put it considering I need space for my real bike.
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I was talking to the new guy at work today during my lunch break, and out of the blue he mentioned that he was thinking about biking in to work since he only lives a mile away. Mainly for the purpose of Pokemon Go-ing, but did bring up exercise and saving gas money as side benefits.
ONE MORE PERSON OUT THERE WHO ISN'T A TOTAL IDIOT!
LOL -- one mile away . . . so of course my first thought is that he is switching from walking to biking . . . until I read the part about "gas." One mile doesn't even give a engine enough time to reach proper operating temperature, does it? :)
Gas can be involved when walking or biking. Especially if you've been on a rice and beans diet.
I prefer to call it "Jet Propelled"
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The flames are sure hard on the wardrobe...
Bicycles and apartments: look into a folding bicycle. You might be able to get one that fits in your closet at home and beside your desk at work. Another reason I don't want to live in an apartment ever again. The only thing I do that doesn't involve "stuff" is reading a book. Got to have a place for "stuff" to dwell.
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The flames are sure hard on the wardrobe...
Bicycles and apartments: look into a folding bicycle. You might be able to get one that fits in your closet at home and beside your desk at work. Another reason I don't want to live in an apartment ever again. The only thing I do that doesn't involve "stuff" is reading a book. Got to have a place for "stuff" to dwell.
I brought up the size of my apartment because I cannot fit two bikes in my apartment. However I really have no interest in having two bikes.
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Oh come on. Why wouldn't you want two bikes? Mountain bike, road bike, commuter bike, junker bike, downhill bike, fatty bike... You could probably justify six bikes!
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Boss mentioned how he used to buy a donut and coffee daily, then realized how much it ended up costing over time. Now he brings coffee from home and I don't think I've ever seen him eat a donut.
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Boss mentioned how he used to buy a donut and coffee daily, then realized how much it ended up costing over time. Now he brings coffee from home and I don't think I've ever seen him eat a donut.
The nice thing there is not only is he saving money, he's probably improving his long-term health too!
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My closest coworker has never seemed too mustachian - lots of eating out, especially when our work lunch room was out of commission during construction. Lots of vacations, lots of purchases, you know the type. But... She finished paying off her car, and has not instantly run out to replace it as she always said she would. She started going home for lunch (I envy her living close enough to do so!). And just today, we were talking about mortgage payments, and she said she tucks away an extra couple hundred bucks a month from her paychecks, and every four months makes an extra mortgage payment.
I don't know what hit her to make her a little more financially savvy, and there are definitely still some anti-mmm habits to work on, but that's a great accomplishment to hear from her!
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Posting to follow!
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One of my co-workers just told me that he got a major raise and promotion in 1990, basically cranked his 401(k) percentage up to the maximum instead of making any lifestyle changes, so he's been getting 15% (+6% match) in there every year. He's retiring at the end of the year.
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One of my co-workers just told me that he got a major raise and promotion in 1990, basically cranked his 401(k) percentage up to the maximum instead of making any lifestyle changes, so he's been getting 15% (+6% match) in there every year. He's retiring at the end of the year.
That's awesome! I love hearing about people that get a considerable bump in compensation but don't change the way they're living.
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One of my co-workers is selling his 1997 civic that has 300k+ miles on it. And he is going to bike 10 miles to work every day. This is awesome because almost all the other cars in our parking lot start in 2010+.
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One of my co-workers is selling his 1997 civic that has 300k+ miles on it. And he is going to bike 10 miles to work every day. This is awesome because almost all the other cars in our parking lot start in 2010+.
That's pretty hardcore, considering the age/mileage on that car. Wouldn't most of his driving-related expense actually be liability insurance at this point?
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One of my co-workers is selling his 1997 civic that has 300k+ miles on it. And he is going to bike 10 miles to work every day. This is awesome because almost all the other cars in our parking lot start in 2010+.
That's pretty hardcore, considering the age/mileage on that car. Wouldn't most of his driving-related expense actually be liability insurance at this point?
Liability insurance, gasoline (figure about 2-5 gallons a week), wear items (brakes, tires, clutch, etc.), maintenance, oil changes...
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One of my co-workers is selling his 1997 civic that has 300k+ miles on it. And he is going to bike 10 miles to work every day. This is awesome because almost all the other cars in our parking lot start in 2010+.
That's pretty hardcore, considering the age/mileage on that car. Wouldn't most of his driving-related expense actually be liability insurance at this point?
Liability insurance, gasoline (figure about 2-5 gallons a week), wear items (brakes, tires, clutch, etc.), maintenance, oil changes...
He said he wasn't using the car much after his move closer to work, hence the plan to sell it and use the bike. If I remember, he took the prize for the lowest gasoline usage in our group a year or two back.
And, he found someone who bought the car at $1000 last week. Major kudos to him!!
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This one's both face punch as well as anti-antiMMM... Older co-worker friend of mine nearing retirement (62) who has already confided his home is STILL under water from the housing bubble and is quite fond of spending money on new car, cruises, trips to casinos, etc. Anyway, it comes up over lunch a month or so ago that he is NOT CONTRIBUTING TO HIS 401K where we also have a 3% company match. I mean, nothing at all, zilch, zero!!
After I digest this and mentally face-punched him a thousand times...
I tactfully suggest he's leaving thousands of dollars a year on the table and jacking up his current tax bracket to boot. Fast forward to last week finally, he mentioned "Hey, that was a good idea you had about the 401K, thanks!"
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This one's both face punch as well as anti-antiMMM... Older co-worker friend of mine nearing retirement (62) who has already confided his home is STILL under water from the housing bubble and is quite fond of spending money on new car, cruises, trips to casinos, etc. Anyway, it comes up over lunch a month or so ago that he is NOT CONTRIBUTING TO HIS 401K where we also have a 3% company match. I mean, nothing at all, zilch, zero!!
After I digest this and mentally face-punched him a thousand times...
I tactfully suggest he's leaving thousands of dollars a year on the table and jacking up his current tax bracket to boot. Fast forward to last week finally, he mentioned "Hey, that was a good idea you had about the 401K, thanks!"
You want to be in this other thread for Facepunch stuff:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/?topicseen
I come to THIS thread for good news that was overheard.
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This one's both face punch as well as anti-antiMMM... Older co-worker friend of mine nearing retirement (62) who has already confided his home is STILL under water from the housing bubble and is quite fond of spending money on new car, cruises, trips to casinos, etc. Anyway, it comes up over lunch a month or so ago that he is NOT CONTRIBUTING TO HIS 401K where we also have a 3% company match. I mean, nothing at all, zilch, zero!!
After I digest this and mentally face-punched him a thousand times...
I tactfully suggest he's leaving thousands of dollars a year on the table and jacking up his current tax bracket to boot. Fast forward to last week finally, he mentioned "Hey, that was a good idea you had about the 401K, thanks!"
You want to be in this other thread for Facepunch stuff:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/?topicseen
I come to THIS thread for good news that was overheard.
Did you miss the last sentence?
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This one's both face punch as well as anti-antiMMM... Older co-worker friend of mine nearing retirement (62) who has already confided his home is STILL under water from the housing bubble and is quite fond of spending money on new car, cruises, trips to casinos, etc. Anyway, it comes up over lunch a month or so ago that he is NOT CONTRIBUTING TO HIS 401K where we also have a 3% company match. I mean, nothing at all, zilch, zero!!
After I digest this and mentally face-punched him a thousand times...
I tactfully suggest he's leaving thousands of dollars a year on the table and jacking up his current tax bracket to boot. Fast forward to last week finally, he mentioned "Hey, that was a good idea you had about the 401K, thanks!"
You want to be in this other thread for Facepunch stuff:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/?topicseen
I come to THIS thread for good news that was overheard.
Did you miss the last sentence?
I come to this thread for three or four sentences, max.
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This one's both face punch as well as anti-antiMMM... Older co-worker friend of mine nearing retirement (62) who has already confided his home is STILL under water from the housing bubble and is quite fond of spending money on new car, cruises, trips to casinos, etc. Anyway, it comes up over lunch a month or so ago that he is NOT CONTRIBUTING TO HIS 401K where we also have a 3% company match. I mean, nothing at all, zilch, zero!!
After I digest this and mentally face-punched him a thousand times...
I tactfully suggest he's leaving thousands of dollars a year on the table and jacking up his current tax bracket to boot. Fast forward to last week finally, he mentioned "Hey, that was a good idea you had about the 401K, thanks!"
You want to be in this other thread for Facepunch stuff:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/?topicseen
I come to THIS thread for good news that was overheard.
Did you miss the last sentence?
I come to this thread for three or four sentences, max.
This is my first sentence. And my second. And my third. Finally, my fourth.
Congratulations, dragoncar! You've been selected to win $100 from the Johnny847 fund. Please PM Johnny847 for details on how to claim your prize =)
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This is my first sentence. And my second. And my third. Finally, my fourth.
Congratulations, dragoncar! You've been selected to win $100 from the Johnny847 fund. Please PM Johnny847 for details on how to claim your prize =)
Looks legit
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This is my first sentence. And my second. And my third. Finally, my fourth.
Congratulations, dragoncar! You've been selected to win $100 from the Johnny847 fund. Please PM Johnny847 for details on how to claim your prize =)
Looks legit
Well apparently dragoncar won't ever find out.....
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This is my first sentence. And my second. And my third. Finally, my fourth.
Congratulations, dragoncar! You've been selected to win $100 from the Johnny847 fund. Please PM Johnny847 for details on how to claim your prize =)
Looks legit
Well apparently dragoncar won't ever find out.....
A Good Samaritan forwarded your offer in a PM and I will be happy to collect. Just send it to:
Dragon car
1 Yemen road
Yemen
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This is my first sentence. And my second. And my third. Finally, my fourth.
Congratulations, dragoncar! You've been selected to win $100 from the Johnny847 fund. Please PM Johnny847 for details on how to claim your prize =)
Looks legit
Well apparently dragoncar won't ever find out.....
A Good Samaritan forwarded your offer in a PM and I will be happy to collect. Just send it to:
Dragon car
1 Yemen road
Yemen
Yemen that actually sounds like a real country!
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This is my first sentence. And my second. And my third. Finally, my fourth.
Congratulations, dragoncar! You've been selected to win $100 from the Johnny847 fund. Please PM Johnny847 for details on how to claim your prize =)
Looks legit
Well apparently dragoncar won't ever find out.....
You mean,,,, DRAGONCAR ???
https://www.google.ca/search?q=dragoncar&rlz=1CAASUD_enCA670CA670&tbm=isch&imgil=98W3sunUm44zLM%253A%253BUKcAMnSdonmHcM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fifunny.co%25252Ffun%25252FSi7ETWVS2&source=iu&pf=m&fir=98W3sunUm44zLM%253A%252CUKcAMnSdonmHcM%252C_&usg=__gZd7VI6rgLJDDU8bxWb9eL3Nb2c%3D&biw=1366&bih=608&ved=0ahUKEwjagMzh7OXOAhUL4GMKHT9TARAQyjcIMA&ei=V8LDV5r5O4vAjwO_poWAAQ#imgrc=98W3sunUm44zLM%3A (https://www.google.ca/search?q=dragoncar&rlz=1CAASUD_enCA670CA670&tbm=isch&imgil=98W3sunUm44zLM%253A%253BUKcAMnSdonmHcM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fifunny.co%25252Ffun%25252FSi7ETWVS2&source=iu&pf=m&fir=98W3sunUm44zLM%253A%252CUKcAMnSdonmHcM%252C_&usg=__gZd7VI6rgLJDDU8bxWb9eL3Nb2c%3D&biw=1366&bih=608&ved=0ahUKEwjagMzh7OXOAhUL4GMKHT9TARAQyjcIMA&ei=V8LDV5r5O4vAjwO_poWAAQ#imgrc=98W3sunUm44zLM%3A)
My kids could not stop laughing when I mentioned that we had a poster named "Dragoncar" on here, and then they showed me why....
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This is my first sentence. And my second. And my third. Finally, my fourth.
Congratulations, dragoncar! You've been selected to win $100 from the Johnny847 fund. Please PM Johnny847 for details on how to claim your prize =)
Looks legit
Well apparently dragoncar won't ever find out.....
You mean,,,, DRAGONCAR ???
https://www.google.ca/search?q=dragoncar&rlz=1CAASUD_enCA670CA670&tbm=isch&imgil=98W3sunUm44zLM%253A%253BUKcAMnSdonmHcM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fifunny.co%25252Ffun%25252FSi7ETWVS2&source=iu&pf=m&fir=98W3sunUm44zLM%253A%252CUKcAMnSdonmHcM%252C_&usg=__gZd7VI6rgLJDDU8bxWb9eL3Nb2c%3D&biw=1366&bih=608&ved=0ahUKEwjagMzh7OXOAhUL4GMKHT9TARAQyjcIMA&ei=V8LDV5r5O4vAjwO_poWAAQ#imgrc=98W3sunUm44zLM%3A (https://www.google.ca/search?q=dragoncar&rlz=1CAASUD_enCA670CA670&tbm=isch&imgil=98W3sunUm44zLM%253A%253BUKcAMnSdonmHcM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fifunny.co%25252Ffun%25252FSi7ETWVS2&source=iu&pf=m&fir=98W3sunUm44zLM%253A%252CUKcAMnSdonmHcM%252C_&usg=__gZd7VI6rgLJDDU8bxWb9eL3Nb2c%3D&biw=1366&bih=608&ved=0ahUKEwjagMzh7OXOAhUL4GMKHT9TARAQyjcIMA&ei=V8LDV5r5O4vAjwO_poWAAQ#imgrc=98W3sunUm44zLM%3A)
My kids could not stop laughing when I mentioned that we had a poster named "Dragoncar" on here, and then they showed me why....
That's dragoncar's avatar, just cartoonized and not animated...
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Animated is better, but the cartoon avatar is saner/safer for a forum post... .
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Animated is better, but the cartoon avatar is saner/safer for a forum post... .
Yeah I had to crop the original so as not to offend/ intimidate other posters with my giant dragon schlong.
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Huh? How can diabetes make you need a riding mower?
It makes more sense the other way round: More exercise, less fat, better insulin levels.
Or is he one of those rare sticks in the landscape and the diabetes is completely genetic+age?
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Huh? How can diabetes make you need a riding mower?
It makes more sense the other way round: More exercise, less fat, better insulin levels.
Or is he one of those rare sticks in the landscape and the diabetes is completely genetic+age?
Can't walk due to feet issues. (just a guess)
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Huh? How can diabetes make you need a riding mower?
It makes more sense the other way round: More exercise, less fat, better insulin levels.
Or is he one of those rare sticks in the landscape and the diabetes is completely genetic+age?
When they amputate your legs it's hard to walk.
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A coworker has been learning to deal with his diabetes diagnosis and one of the lifestyle changes he has had to make is getting a riding lawn mower instead of a push mower. He has been selling his mowing services to his neighbors and currently has three regular customers and a few more who call him up as needed. With the money he's making he's covering the cost of his mower entirely, so once it's paid off it'll be a great side hustle. Since they're his neighbors he doesn't need a trailer to haul it or a gas guzzling truck to haul the trailer.
When life gives you lemons... make and sell lemonade :-)
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Huh? How can diabetes make you need a riding mower?
It makes more sense the other way round: More exercise, less fat, better insulin levels.
Or is he one of those rare sticks in the landscape and the diabetes is completely genetic+age?
When they amputate your legs it's hard to walk.
When the diagnosis is diabetes because you can no longer walk, then something went wrong for YEARS. Or decades.
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Huh? How can diabetes make you need a riding mower?
It makes more sense the other way round: More exercise, less fat, better insulin levels.
Or is he one of those rare sticks in the landscape and the diabetes is completely genetic+age?
When they amputate your legs it's hard to walk.
When the diagnosis is diabetes because you can no longer walk, then something went wrong for YEARS. Or decades.
True, although since it's often untreated in my neck of the woods people tend to go downhill fast. An unnoticed cut on the foot, once infected, can get complicated quickly.
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Huh? How can diabetes make you need a riding mower?
It makes more sense the other way round: More exercise, less fat, better insulin levels.
Or is he one of those rare sticks in the landscape and the diabetes is completely genetic+age?
Diabetic neuropathy is my guess. As I understand it, it's quite common among diabetics and quite painful.
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Huh? How can diabetes make you need a riding mower?
It makes more sense the other way round: More exercise, less fat, better insulin levels.
Or is he one of those rare sticks in the landscape and the diabetes is completely genetic+age?
Diabetic neuropathy is my guess. As I understand it, it's quite common among diabetics and quite painful.
It is.
My father got it about 8 years after he started injecting insulin (which is already a late state) and never doing it right. You know - only stop eating sweets 2 days before going to the doctor and such things resulting in a steady slightly too high sugar. Which is main cause for the neuropathy. (But mocking the guy who eats 2 bits of chocolade a day by the clock.)
That why I said something went wrong for years. Neuropathy does not just pop out of nothing, its a long-time damage to the nerves.
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Huh? How can diabetes make you need a riding mower?
Reminds me of the eternal question "Why is a raven like a writing desk?"
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Huh? How can diabetes make you need a riding mower?
Reminds me of the eternal question "Why is a raven like a writing desk?"
They both have quills. Thought it was obvious.
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Huh? How can diabetes make you need a riding mower?
Reminds me of the eternal question "Why is a raven like a writing desk?"
They both have quills. Thought it was obvious.
True, but only obvious if you think hard enough to what writing was like back in those days. The thought of a quill and ink doesn't come to my mind when I think of that era.
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Huh? How can diabetes make you need a riding mower?
Reminds me of the eternal question "Why is a raven like a writing desk?"
They both have quills. Thought it was obvious.
True, but only obvious if you think hard enough to what writing was like back in those days. The thought of a quill and ink doesn't come to my mind when I think of that era.
Or it could just as easily be: they both have bills.
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A coworker has been learning to deal with his diabetes diagnosis and one of the lifestyle changes he has had to make is getting a riding lawn mower instead of a push mower. He has been selling his mowing services to his neighbors and currently has three regular customers and a few more who call him up as needed. With the money he's making he's covering the cost of his mower entirely, so once it's paid off it'll be a great side hustle. Since they're his neighbors he doesn't need a trailer to haul it or a gas guzzling truck to haul the trailer.
Back when I was doing that on the side I towed a 5x8ft trailer and riding mower with our grocery getter 150HP four cylinder vehicle. Not much reason for a big vehicle unless you want to drag race while towing. Still driving that same vehicle many, many years later so it didn't hurt it.
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Huh? How can diabetes make you need a riding mower?
Reminds me of the eternal question "Why is a raven like a writing desk?"
They both have quills. Thought it was obvious.
True, but only obvious if you think hard enough to what writing was like back in those days. The thought of a quill and ink doesn't come to my mind when I think of that era.
Or it could just as easily be: they both have bills.
They're both in debt up to their eyeballs.
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I'm going to get us back on topic! One of my twentysomething coworkers just got promoted from thirty-hour shelver to forty-hour clerk. Few more dollars an hour times more hours. Says he's going to keep his second job at the movie theater.
He has previously mentioned that he chooses not to pay for air conditioning and regrets leasing a car because he really prefers just having an old beater.
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Huh? How can diabetes make you need a riding mower?
Reminds me of the eternal question "Why is a raven like a writing desk?"
They both have quills. Thought it was obvious.
True, but only obvious if you think hard enough to what writing was like back in those days. The thought of a quill and ink doesn't come to my mind when I think of that era.
Or it could just as easily be: they both have bills.
I had thought that the answer was that Poe wrote on both.
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Huh? How can diabetes make you need a riding mower?
Reminds me of the eternal question "Why is a raven like a writing desk?"
They both have quills. Thought it was obvious.
True, but only obvious if you think hard enough to what writing was like back in those days. The thought of a quill and ink doesn't come to my mind when I think of that era.
Or it could just as easily be: they both have bills.
I had thought that the answer was that Poe wrote on both.
I've heard 'Because they both produce flat notes'
and also 'Because neither of them is an umbrella'
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Yesterday, in the lunch room: I don't understand how people live without a nice big pile of money available to cover things like car repairs and vet bills - it must be so stressful!
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Yesterday, in the lunch room: I don't understand how people live without a nice big pile of money available to cover things like car repairs and vet bills - it must be so stressful!
Amen to that! I am not brave enough to be in debt. Way to scary!
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Huh? How can diabetes make you need a riding mower?
Reminds me of the eternal question "Why is a raven like a writing desk?"
They both have quills. Thought it was obvious.
True, but only obvious if you think hard enough to what writing was like back in those days. The thought of a quill and ink doesn't come to my mind when I think of that era.
Or it could just as easily be: they both have bills.
I had thought that the answer was that Poe wrote on both.
I've heard 'Because they both produce flat notes'
and also 'Because neither of them is an umbrella'
Both can be incinerated...
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Reminds me of the eternal question "Why is a raven like a writing desk?"
I had thought that the answer was that Poe wrote on both.
Very nice, dream
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Reminds me of the eternal question "Why is a raven like a writing desk?"
I had thought that the answer was that Poe wrote on both.
Very nice, dream
I agree. The winning quip.
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Somehow stumbled onto the subject of retirement savings at a recent work event. One of my co-workers shared that he maxes out his 401k each year and that his family continues to live on the level of income he had several years and two promotions in the past. Winning!
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Somehow stumbled onto the subject of retirement savings at a recent work event. One of my co-workers shared that he maxes out his 401k each year and that his family continues to live on the level of income he had several years and two promotions in the past. Winning!
Nice!
How many coworkers scoffed at this idea?
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A third person was there. She didn't scoff. I kinda gathered she maxed out, too, but I can't be sure.
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Coworker mentioned MMM as a financial blogger they read over lunch.
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My manager, who I already knew makes careful spending decisions and saves, mentioned that she subscribes to a daily email service about the market so that she can see how her blue chip stocks are travelling.
I suspect she is FI and just doesn't know it.
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Another one from public transit. Bright-eyed Northwestern freshman proudly declares to her mentor that she has finally realized that getting coffee at Starbucks is too expensive when she could be paying much less at home with K-cups. Eh, baby steps, I'll take it. She's learning much earlier than many (and some never do).
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NU grad here...I left far too much money in the coffee shops around Evanston, not realizing at the time what those dollars could have become through compounding. At least I kept funding my Roth.
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Last time I was in Evanston I dropped 2 grand.
Wait, that might have been the 2nd to last time. Last time might have only been $8. Same store though.
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Another one from public transit. Bright-eyed Northwestern freshman proudly declares to her mentor that she has finally realized that getting coffee at Starbucks is too expensive when she could be paying much less at home with K-cups. Eh, baby steps, I'll take it. She's learning much earlier than many (and some never do).
Ok, that is funny because my 58 year old mother learned that. Then bought a machine for work as well as home. Then bought one for me when she came to visit when my daughter was born because she was too addicted to having them.....So might be baby steps in the wrong direction.
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Somehow stumbled onto the subject of retirement savings at a recent work event. One of my co-workers shared that he maxes out his 401k each year and that his family continues to live on the level of income he had several years and two promotions in the past. Winning!
One of my coworkers kept complaining how every stock he picked was a sure fire loser, to the point that his previous boss made money betting against his picks.
So I shamed him occasionally on lunch walks for a couple months whenever he complained about the market. About a month ago he asked for which total market funds I put my money into in Fidelity and Vanguard. Since then he has come around to the total market approach rather than following the awful advice he kept believing from CNBC talking heads. He is also digging into the details of how much SSA he and his wife will get, how her pension works, the 4% rules, and re-evaluating whether the ~2.5% return he is getting on his rental properties wouldn't be better off in VTSAX.
I am pretty sure that if he wasn't such a softy about helping his kids out with cars, phones, Apple anything, college, and free rent he would be FIRE now and does not quite realize it. At the least I am pretty sure they would be more than OK just on his wife's salary since she really likes her job and does not want to retire for 10 more years regardless if they were FI. I am settling for the fact that he wants to beat my 8 year goal.
Just this week he jumped all over our boss on a lunch walk for not knowing at all what his retirement picture looked like. It was a sight to behold. Our boss was so intrigued and hungry for a road map to approach the subject that he decided not to take the short cut back to the office and finished the long loop with us. My coworker had done so much research after I got him fired up that I even learned a couple things over the 2 miles while he did the financial drill sergeant routine. It was quite the sight to behold. There is hope!
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Since then he has come around to the total market approach rather than following the awful advice he kept believing from CNBC talking heads.
Uh.... you dont mean like on TV?
Like those "Here is an awfully overpriced stock, look at that SPIKE in the graph, I let you suckers buy it so it spikes even higher and then I sell with $$$ profit and can laugh about you as you see your "investment" drop through the cellar" TV shows??
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Finally I can post to this thread!
A co-worker (mid-30s) was asking our manager about taking the retirement course as she's heard it should be taken within 10 years of retiring. I had to pipe in ...
me: You, um, are retiring within 10 years?
cw: I'm thinking about taking a deferred annuity (DB pension, so this is a thing) and live off RRSPs until I start receiving it.
me: That's awesome! Hey did you know that if you retire before 50 you can take a lump sum payout of your pension an invest it yourself?
cw: That's interesting. Hmmm. Well I want to retire when I'm 43 or 44. My husband and I have been paying off our house, not buying expensive cars, and trying to save as much as possible so we can do this. Maybe I'll pick up a part time job later on or something. I don't want to work here for much longer.
me: Have you heard of MMM? Canadian Couch Potato?
cw: Nope.
me: link link link
< ... awesome saving / low spending / money is time conversation follows ... >
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powersuitrecall, that's awesome!
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So a while ago, I had shared the MMM post arguing against Lauren Martin's consumerist post about spending away your 20s (link: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/09/29/if-youre-not-getting-rich-in-your-20s-youre-doing-it-wrong/) with a young co-worker who'd just recently bought a condo. I just ran into her, and she said she's gone full-mustache. Read all the posts, and now she and her boyfriend bike to work. She was radiant!
I am ashamedly still driving my eight-year-old Toyota Camry 700 miles/month.
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So a while ago, I had shared the MMM post arguing against Lauren Martin's consumerist post about spending away your 20s (link: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/09/29/if-youre-not-getting-rich-in-your-20s-youre-doing-it-wrong/) with a young co-worker who'd just recently bought a condo. I just ran into her, and she said she's gone full-mustache. Read all the posts, and now she and her boyfriend bike to work. She was radiant!
I am ashamedly still driving my eight-year-old Toyota Camry 700 miles/month.
:-)
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Checked in with a young man who I had introduced to MMM and JL Collins a month back.
They have cut their expenses way back and are working towards being FI in about 10 years.
A good day at work!
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Hold strong, believers, for the pityful heathens are more and more converted to the one and only true God named FI!
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What are we supposed to do if we're yoked to unbelievers?
My wife made a lot of progress, went to a charity auction last night and used the cash I gave her, didn't buy anything that required writing a check, but still...
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I just realized that some of the hand-me-downs that I just received from my coworkers have been through seven babies--my director's 2 kids, a coworker's only child, and 2 of my boss' before coming to me for my two kids. Now that they've grown out of them, the clothes that survived are getting bagged and going to yet another one of my coworkers. Not 'overheard' so much, but still a pretty mustachian chain of hand-me-downs and a great way to keep the children from breaking the bank.
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I just realized that some of the hand-me-downs that I just received from my coworkers have been through seven babies--my director's 2 kids, a coworker's only child, and 2 of my boss' before coming to me for my two kids. Now that they've grown out of them, the clothes that survived are getting bagged and going to yet another one of my coworkers. Not 'overheard' so much, but still a pretty mustachian chain of hand-me-downs and a great way to keep the children from breaking the bank.
The great thing about hand-me-downs that have lasted a couple of kids is that you know they are good quality - you can feel good about handing them off to the next family.
Another Anti-Antimustachian occurrence at work - a co-worker renewed his mortgage at a lower rate and then set up to auto-pay his line of credit with the saved amount.
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I'm amazed at how many details my co-workers share regarding their mortgages. I think I know the rate each of them is paying.
But good Lord, I would never want to know their salaries!
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I'm amazed at how many details my co-workers share regarding their mortgages. I think I know the rate each of them is paying.
But good Lord, I would never want to know their salaries!
I work in the gov't so not only are our salaries known to each other, they are published online. The only wildcard is how much overtime someone manages to rack up over the year. When T4 time comes we all break them out and compare. It's pretty fun :) It's VERY different from my former private sector job, where it was against company policy to disclose your salary to co-workers.
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One of my employees was telling me yesterday how pleased he was with the promotion he got this year, and how he convinced his wife to shovel it all into his 401(k), getting it up to a 20% contribution. He shared with me because we have chatted finances before and he knows I am all about saving and inverseront. Yay!
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We moved into new office space today, so for the last couple of weeks everyone has been eating all of the soup and other lunch rations we had in our cubes. Free lunches and that much less stuff to move.
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My wife told me that she may go through another lay-off cycle at work. She's already survived two, but people all around her were consuming conspicuously before the previous round. Good luck, guys!
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Co-worker and I recently talked about how debt is bad, eating out is expensive and unhealthy, and that we should save our money and live within our means. Nothing groundbreaking (or even mustachian, he's got a few decades on me and isn't looking to retire anytime soon), but it's still nice to talk to someone who doesn't live to consume.
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Just overheard two young employees under 30 years old talking about 401K plan contributions.
- Do you max out your 401K plan?
- I try too. You?
- Well we safe a lot including to 401K, we wanna buy a house.
I did not catch how 401K plan contributions can help with buying a house other than taking a loan from it but still a nice talk of younger people at the beginning of their career.
Well done!
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I did not catch how 401K plan contributions can help with buying a house other than taking a loan from it but still a nice talk of younger people at the beginning of their career.
Seems to me that he's saying he saves a lot in different accounts, but he doesn't max out his 401K because he's also saving up to buy a house. Still, good for him!
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One of my younger co-workers mentioned wanting to find a financial planner. I referred her to the fee-only guy who first showed me the MMM website.
Old reply can you still refer this person?
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I can't remember how the conversation started (maybe post-election stocks?), but one of my captains remarked that he is way behind on investing and knowing what he's doing (and probably needs a budget overhaul). I mentioned how I learned to do it all myself and my FIRE plans and he asked if I could teach him. I love teaching regardless of the subject, and I get really excited when I can help someone with personal finance. I'm going to send him my copy of "Random Walk" and "Simple Path" and start off with looking at his budget and some investment basics. I don't think I'm going to convert him into a full Mustachian, but he definitely wants to be in a better place for retirement since at this point he definitely sees himself working into his 60s.
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I have a new job with a smallish staff (about 30, compared to something over 300 in my previous department). On election day (Wednesday for us here), we watched results coming in. I went to the computer to transfer some of my spare money into my trading account to try and capitalise on the sudden drop in price of EFTs. The trading bank's website wasn't working, and when we started talking I found out FOUR of my new colleagues were having the same problem!
In my previous job I doubt anyone I worked with even knew what a trading account was.
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US Federal Government employee. We were discussing the new administration and whether there would be job cuts t our department. "I'm not worried" said my coworker. "My TSP will be over a million in a year or two." I pointed out to him that he could retire right now and he said "yea, I've been thinking about it". He's just shy of 50 I think.
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I have a new job with a smallish staff (about 30, compared to something over 300 in my previous department). On election day (Wednesday for us here), we watched results coming in. I went to the computer to transfer some of my spare money into my trading account to try and capitalise on the sudden drop in price of EFTs. The trading bank's website wasn't working, and when we started talking I found out FOUR of my new colleagues were having the same problem!
In my previous job I doubt anyone I worked with even knew what a trading account was.
One of my coworkers had a nice windfall Tuesday night dabbling in Dow futures (I think?)
I'm glad he was doing something productive. I was watching election returns and drinking heavily.
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Spendy Co-worker asked me how much I put in the company sponsored Simple IRA plan. I didn't want to tell her how much exactly because I couldn't guess why she was asking, so I said "a lot, why do you ask?" She said she wanted to stop just putting in the 3% to get a match and wanted to do more, so we chatted about a few things. She had just turned 40 and I think the number hit her hard... That was about a month or two ago. Today, my boss yelled across the office (he isn't very tactful) to make sure he was putting the change in correctly when he called in our pay. Turns out she decided to turn off her $230 cable bill and add all of it to her 3%. Baby steps! If you knew her, you'd be proud!
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Spendy Co-worker asked me how much I put in the company sponsored Simple IRA plan. I didn't want to tell her how much exactly because I couldn't guess why she was asking, so I said "a lot, why do you ask?" She said she wanted to stop just putting in the 3% to get a match and wanted to do more, so we chatted about a few things. She had just turned 40 and I think the number hit her hard... That was about a month or two ago. Today, my boss yelled across the office (he isn't very tactful) to make sure he was putting the change in correctly when he called in our pay. Turns out she decided to turn off her $230 cable bill and add all of it to her 3%. Baby steps! If you knew her, you'd be proud!
That doesn't sound like baby step. Saves her $2,760/yr and reduces her total stach needed by $69,000. With the extra tax savings she'll gain she is probably saving over $3k/yr in reality. That's one giant leap for mustachianism!
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One of my younger co-workers was discussing his recent wedding. Both he and his wife are fans of ice cream cakes, and since they're both quite frugal they decided to order their wedding cake from Baskin-Robbins.
Unlike many retailers that jack up prices for all things wedding-related, it turns out that Baskin-Robbins doesn't. A wedding cake (made of ice cream) costs just the same as any of their other ice cream cakes.
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One of my younger co-workers was discussing his recent wedding. Both he and his wife are fans of ice cream cakes, and since they're both quite frugal they decided to order their wedding cake from Baskin-Robbins.
Unlike many retailers that jack up prices for all things wedding-related, it turns out that Baskin-Robbins doesn't. A wedding cake (made of ice cream) costs just the same as any of their other ice cream cakes.
That's very good to know! I LOVE DQ's cakes.
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I walked over to ask a question to a co-worker.
Him: What should I increase it to?
Me: Huh?
Him: I'm at 10%, what do you do?
Me: (I saw he was on his 401(K) Vanguard page.) I max it.
Him: OK. Me too. (proceeds to change his.)
I give him props for turning his finances around lately. He lived an hour plus away, and commuted with his wife to work. They put their house on rent recently and rented a significantly smaller apartment closer to work. Also they got rid of the nanny and put the kids back into the excellent workplace daycare center.
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Him: I'm at 10%, what do you do?
Me: (I saw he was on his 401(K) Vanguard page.) I max it.
Him: OK. Me too. (proceeds to change his.)
Unless he makes a ton of money, that's pretty amazing to go from 10% to a max without having to really think about it. We save more than enough to max, but I still had to think about the implications of what that does to our various accounts to actually put that much money away into a retirement account.
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Him: I'm at 10%, what do you do?
Me: (I saw he was on his 401(K) Vanguard page.) I max it.
Him: OK. Me too. (proceeds to change his.)
Unless he makes a ton of money, that's pretty amazing to go from 10% to a max without having to really think about it.
I did this shortly after finding this site. I was putting in 6%, because that was the max company max. I was then putting another 5% elsewhere, and thinking that I was killing it because I had achieved and 11% retirement saving rate. Once I found MMM, I immediately maxed.
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Him: I'm at 10%, what do you do?
Me: (I saw he was on his 401(K) Vanguard page.) I max it.
Him: OK. Me too. (proceeds to change his.)
Unless he makes a ton of money, that's pretty amazing to go from 10% to a max without having to really think about it.
I did this shortly after finding this site. I was putting in 6%, because that was the max company max. I was then putting another 5% elsewhere, and thinking that I was killing it because I had achieved and 11% retirement saving rate. Once I found MMM, I immediately maxed.
Good point!
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Him: I'm at 10%, what do you do?
Me: (I saw he was on his 401(K) Vanguard page.) I max it.
Him: OK. Me too. (proceeds to change his.)
Unless he makes a ton of money, that's pretty amazing to go from 10% to a max without having to really think about it.
I did this shortly after finding this site. I was putting in 6%, because that was the max company max. I was then putting another 5% elsewhere, and thinking that I was killing it because I had achieved and 11% retirement saving rate. Once I found MMM, I immediately maxed.
I switched to maxing after finding this site too; fairly quickly- but not immediately upon seeing the suggestion. I spent a little while thinking "huh, wonder why I haven't done that before" and the implications of it. Read if there were other strategies that might be better; benefit to tax deferred etc.
This sounds like the guy just changed the entry the second someone suggested it. No reading up on the implications, no thinking about how it affects the accounts, etc. Just "oh, 18k it is".
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Girl (15) that helps out a few afternoons a week, bought herself new boots and when asked by a school friend how much they cost, she replied in hours worked.
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Girl (15) that helps out a few afternoons a week, bought herself new boots and when asked by a school friend how much they cost, she replied in hours worked.
That's awesome! I remember in college I started to think of money in terms of pizza slices. "Hey, MgoSam it's only $4." "Hell no, that's 4 pizza slices!"
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Him: I'm at 10%, what do you do?
Me: (I saw he was on his 401(K) Vanguard page.) I max it.
Him: OK. Me too. (proceeds to change his.)
Unless he makes a ton of money, that's pretty amazing to go from 10% to a max without having to really think about it.
I did this shortly after finding this site. I was putting in 6%, because that was the max company max. I was then putting another 5% elsewhere, and thinking that I was killing it because I had achieved and 11% retirement saving rate. Once I found MMM, I immediately maxed.
I switched to maxing after finding this site too; fairly quickly- but not immediately upon seeing the suggestion. I spent a little while thinking "huh, wonder why I haven't done that before" and the implications of it. Read if there were other strategies that might be better; benefit to tax deferred etc.
This sounds like the guy just changed the entry the second someone suggested it. No reading up on the implications, no thinking about how it affects the accounts, etc. Just "oh, 18k it is".
We're paid quite well. Starting salary in my team is $85k. I know he makes at least 95. His wife also has a stable well-paid civilian job. He's loud at times, and I've heard him say he has too much disposable income and he wants to reduce it. He was getting crazy suggestions like H&B, buy a boat or some big toy for big boys, or a fast car.
[Maxing out is under 17% of my gross pay, wish I wasn't limited. The rest of my savings goes with my wife's income into our RE investment rainy-day fund. When we find a rental property, CA$H IS K1NG! We've doing this 6 years.]
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Girl (15) that helps out a few afternoons a week, bought herself new boots and when asked by a school friend how much they cost, she replied in hours worked.
That's awesome! I remember in college I started to think of money in terms of pizza slices. "Hey, MgoSam it's only $4." "Hell no, that's 4 pizza slices!"
I did the same as this girl when I was in my first job. My hourly rate after taxed worked out to £5, so I'd withdraw my cash in £5 notes and think really hard about handing them over. My money mistakes started when I started to earn more than £5/hour and lost that thinking. I also gave into a bit of peer pressure when people thought I was being stupid for equating a £5 note with an hour waiting tables when I was no longer working waiting tables. If I could go back in time, for five seconds to deliver one kick to the groin, it would be then.
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We've got a few new hires at work, young fresh-out-of-college types. The first guy was an intern-to-hire. I was impressed when I met him a few months ago and now I'm starting to realize how badass he is.
Firstly, he brings lunch every day. (Which is not typical here in this area, for a new grad).
Second, he eats homemade and cheap food. A lot of beans and rice, maybe veggie stews, curries, that sort of thing.
Third, today another new coworker asked my plans for the weekend. I answered "the usual. Grocery shopping, chores, and bulk cooking a ton of food that will be gone by Weds." The beans-and-rice guy laughed and said "yep, I ran out of food yesterday so I made a double batch of pancakes for breakfast". His lunch was pancakes, win!
Lastly. I know he has a car, but he bikes to work every day. Including last week during one of the biggest downpours ever. I got soaked simply walking my kid into preschool. He was wet even UNDER his waterproof outer pants.
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I had lunch with a coworker today. She really isn't that mustachian, but we did talk about saving, tracking spending, trying to cut down on eating out. Her husband has always been big on saving so they have always maxed out their 401ks. She was receptive to some of my ideas so I sent her some reading material, including the stock series and the link to cFIREsim. I suspect they probably have enough to retire now, but who knows? At least she is motivated to learn more about it and set up a plan so they know when they can retire.
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We've got a few new hires at work, young fresh-out-of-college types. The first guy was an intern-to-hire. I was impressed when I met him a few months ago and now I'm starting to realize how badass he is.
Firstly, he brings lunch every day. (Which is not typical here in this area, for a new grad).
Second, he eats homemade and cheap food. A lot of beans and rice, maybe veggie stews, curries, that sort of thing.
Third, today another new coworker asked my plans for the weekend. I answered "the usual. Grocery shopping, chores, and bulk cooking a ton of food that will be gone by Weds." The beans-and-rice guy laughed and said "yep, I ran out of food yesterday so I made a double batch of pancakes for breakfast". His lunch was pancakes, win!
Lastly. I know he has a car, but he bikes to work every day. Including last week during one of the biggest downpours ever. I got soaked simply walking my kid into preschool. He was wet even UNDER his waterproof outer pants.
Could you start leaving little mustaches on post-it notes on his desk to see if he gets the hint?
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I was talking with a coworker about retirement and he said that even when he was working part time he would max out his retirement contributions. He is back to full time and continuing to max out.
He's older and when retirement comes up, he just says, "I will retire when I don't feel like coming to work anymore." I am pretty sure that his family is doing really well financially!
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In another thread I talked about how my supervisor brings in breakfast several times a week and frequently goes out for lunch.
The other day she mentioned using YNAB and that she has an emergency fund.
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In another thread I talked about how my supervisor brings in breakfast several times a week and frequently goes out for lunch.
The other day she mentioned using YNAB and that she has an emergency fund.
I wonder what people think about my wife at work. They probably judge her like no other. Designer luxuries, nice car, buys lunch everyday, etc.
If I cared to look through this thread, she might be spoken about!
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There is no anti anti from Facebook, so I'll share it here. One of the local banks has made a series of advertisements where they interview people on the street about spending habits and savings. I sincerely hope this is a picture of the average citizen, because their replies are in the line of "I'm a student and my goal is to live on my scholarship income, and save 100% of my earned income", "I don't really save a fixed amount, I just avoid spending all my money, and put all the extra aside", "stop spending on stupid stuff, and you'll have money for everything you need" or when they say it is recommended to have an emergency fund of at least 2 months of income, the replies are "oh, I have more than that, that seems a bit low", and "yes, of course we have at least as much in the bank".
In Norwegian:
https://www.facebook.com/DanskeBankNorge/videos/1316025311773693/
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There is no anti anti from Facebook, so I'll share it here. One of the local banks has made a series of advertisements where they interview people on the street about spending habits and savings. I sincerely hope this is a picture of the average citizen, because their replies are in the line of "I'm a student and my goal is to live on my scholarship income, and save 100% of my earned income", "I don't really save a fixed amount, I just avoid spending all my money, and put all the extra aside", "stop spending on stupid stuff, and you'll have money for everything you need" or when they say it is recommended to have an emergency fund of at least 2 months of income, the replies are "oh, I have more than that, that seems a bit low", and "yes, of course we have at least as much in the bank".
In Norwegian:
https://www.facebook.com/DanskeBankNorge/videos/1316025311773693/
This is awesome, there is probably some bias in who will talk for attribution/on camera about money. So maybe not quite average.
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I sincerely hope this is a picture of the average citizen,
Not that I distrust Danske Bank more than anyone else, but testimonials like this are normally paid actors with a script or at least very selectively screened interviews with "common people".
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I sincerely hope this is a picture of the average citizen,
Not that I distrust Danske Bank more than anyone else, but testimonials like this are normally paid actors with a script or at least very selectively screened interviews with "common people".
Selectively screened, absolutely. But no lesss fun; most bank ads I've seen earlier have been about loans, credit cards, expensive mutual funds, etc. These films and several of their featured "articles" are on how to avoid spending money, and about savings in general. They are trying to build the image that the norm is to treat money responsibly, and that is something a lot of people need to hear.
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Interesting. David Cameron's Nudge Unit did a similar thing with income tax - they altered the reminder letters to let people know that most of their neighbours had already done their self-assessment and paid, and it worked. It's that "herd mentality" that we discuss so much on this forum, but being used for good. No one wants to be the one person not doing something, be it paying your tax on time or having an emergency fund.
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Re the Nudge Unit, how awesome would it be if they/we/I got the software they use for detecting fraud and then misused it to nicely email people about their financial misbehavings?
So when you signed up for the account you'd answer fraud/responsibility questions like "how much of your income do you plan to save this year?" and "how often do you treat yourself at Starbucks?". Then when you'd bought the third latte of the week you'd get a little email asking you if everything was okay and have you lost your card or your mind. You'd identify the self-defeating behaviour and highlight that B+ financial folk (like you self-identify as) don't normally spend like this.
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Re the Nudge Unit, how awesome would it be if they/we/I got the software they use for detecting fraud and then misused it to nicely email people about their financial misbehavings?
So when you signed up for the account you'd answer fraud/responsibility questions like "how much of your income do you plan to save this year?" and "how often do you treat yourself at Starbucks?". Then when you'd bought the third latte of the week you'd get a little email asking you if everything was okay and have you lost your card or your mind. You'd identify the self-defeating behaviour and highlight that B+ financial folk (like you self-identify as) don't normally spend like this.
That's actually the huge advantage of having a really detailed YNAB budget, for us.
I mean, I CAN buy a third Kindle book this week, but my budget line item immediately starts showing a bright red "you're out of your mind and out of your budget that you set, either give a good reason and fix this or don't do it!" Whereas without the details it's really easy to be like "enh, whatever, it's only 10$"... but 'only' 10$ adds up to a few hundred REALLY QUICK over the course of a month if you do that once or twice a day every day!
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All of my students brought their lunch yesterday. One was even talking about how he and his roommates meal prep. These are juniors in college.
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There's a lady at my new job who brings her lunch to work - usually a combination of red rice, veggies and some sort of lean protein. She usually walks to work and she doesn't wear makeup. She's a rather mature lady, but she's lean, fit, still mentally sharp and pretty nice, too. She'd be my Mustachian role model, except that I don't know her well enough yet to find out why she's still working. Maybe she likes the job? Who knows.
Also, most people at my new job bring lunch to work, and share freely! It's so refreshing.
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Some guy called to sign up for a freebie my company has been offering - and I started to tell him that we can't take the order over the phone, but he can order it online. He proudly rattled off a VERY long list of electronic devices he does not own, including anything that would have internet connectivity. I finally got a word in edge-wise and said I would mail him a form that he could mail back to us (at which point he went on a long tangent about people stealing mail/your identity, including the exact method used to fish mail out of mailboxes). And then he told me he doesn't have a credit card or any debt, which is why he retired 21 years ago and never had to work a day since! OK, except for this one time, he was an extra in a movie with Kevin Costner, and I came very close to having to promise to go rent the movie before we got off the phone, but that was the only paid work he has done in 21 years. Kind of an exhausting person to talk to, but FIRE and proud of it!
I could see a couple of forum members heading in this direction... LOL ;-)
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LOL, Dollar Slice I get a few calls like that a month. Some elderly guy will want me to mail a catalog to him because he has "free time," and wants to know what we sell. Running a catalog and mailing it costs about $15 and normally I wouldn't bat an eye to mail a catalog to a customer because we can make it back if they buy, but for an elderly person that has no clue what we sell, I'm not going to spend the time. Maybe 10 years ago when we selling a different line of products, but not anymore.
Now that I think of it, I can't think of a single sale we made in the past year in which the customer did not have internet....
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LOL, Dollar Slice I get a few calls like that a month. Some elderly guy will want me to mail a catalog to him because he has "free time," and wants to know what we sell. Running a catalog and mailing it costs about $15 and normally I wouldn't bat an eye to mail a catalog to a customer because we can make it back if they buy, but for an elderly person that has no clue what we sell, I'm not going to spend the time. Maybe 10 years ago when we selling a different line of products, but not anymore.
Now that I think of it, I can't think of a single sale we made in the past year in which the customer did not have internet....
What do you sell anyways? (And can I get a catalog?)
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LOL, Dollar Slice I get a few calls like that a month. Some elderly guy will want me to mail a catalog to him because he has "free time," and wants to know what we sell. Running a catalog and mailing it costs about $15 and normally I wouldn't bat an eye to mail a catalog to a customer because we can make it back if they buy, but for an elderly person that has no clue what we sell, I'm not going to spend the time. Maybe 10 years ago when we selling a different line of products, but not anymore.
Now that I think of it, I can't think of a single sale we made in the past year in which the customer did not have internet....
What do you sell anyways? (And can I get a catalog?)
Smoking paraphernalia, and no can't be seen to sell to non-businesses.
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LOL, Dollar Slice I get a few calls like that a month. Some elderly guy will want me to mail a catalog to him because he has "free time," and wants to know what we sell. Running a catalog and mailing it costs about $15 and normally I wouldn't bat an eye to mail a catalog to a customer because we can make it back if they buy, but for an elderly person that has no clue what we sell, I'm not going to spend the time. Maybe 10 years ago when we selling a different line of products, but not anymore.
Now that I think of it, I can't think of a single sale we made in the past year in which the customer did not have internet....
What do you sell anyways? (And can I get a catalog?)
Smoking paraphernalia, and no can't be seen to sell to non-businesses.
In that case, can I get some samples?
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I was in a meeting recently and a co-worker mentioned that he had just paid off his mortgage and will at least go part-time next year. He is 54 so it's not super early, but he genuinely enjoys what he does. We got to talking, and not only was he familiar with MMM, he has introduced both of his kids to MMM. They are now out of college, maxing out their 401Ks, etc. It was nice for a change to chat with someone who gets it and doesn't look at me like I have two heads or something.
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Some guy called to sign up for a freebie my company has been offering - and I started to tell him that we can't take the order over the phone, but he can order it online. He proudly rattled off a VERY long list of electronic devices he does not own, including anything that would have internet connectivity. I finally got a word in edge-wise and said I would mail him a form that he could mail back to us (at which point he went on a long tangent about people stealing mail/your identity, including the exact method used to fish mail out of mailboxes).
*snip*
This reminds me of a certain client of OldFirm. He would cut his personal information (SSN, name, address) out of all tax forms he received before he brought them to us for tax prep. What a character.
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Not really wall of shame, but heard at work:
My boss: I need to take up a mortgage, because I am going to renovate the bathroom.
It sounded like she didn't have a mortgage at present, which is good. But she can't afford the 35.000 dollar or so that it costs to have the bathroom renovated by a specialist. We renovated our bathroom some years ago and did everything ourselves. Cost: approx 12.000 dollars. Bathrooms in Norway have to follow lots of rules, so it isn't really easy.
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Linda_Norway and jslasher88, this thread is for commending coworkers for doing frugal things, hence the "Anti-Anti." It looks like you both wanted the much longer "Overheard at Work" thread that bemoans the un-frugal choices of coworkers who complain they can't afford to save money (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/). (Both are interesting posts, though.)
My office usually has 4-6 days a month where we can wear jeans if we donate $5 or more to charity.
*snip*
Am I in the wrong here? Am I a terrible person for not participating in these charity days? I only make $15/hour right now, so $20-25/month adds up.
I don't think you are in the wrong at all. If anyone criticizes you, say "That doesn't fit my budget," "I donate through my church," "I already have plans for my charity dollars," or whatever applies.
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LOL, Dollar Slice I get a few calls like that a month. Some elderly guy will want me to mail a catalog to him because he has "free time," and wants to know what we sell. Running a catalog and mailing it costs about $15 and normally I wouldn't bat an eye to mail a catalog to a customer because we can make it back if they buy, but for an elderly person that has no clue what we sell, I'm not going to spend the time. Maybe 10 years ago when we selling a different line of products, but not anymore.
Now that I think of it, I can't think of a single sale we made in the past year in which the customer did not have internet....
What do you sell anyways? (And can I get a catalog?)
Smoking paraphernalia, and no can't be seen to sell to non-businesses.
In that case, can I get some samples?
Sorry man, not worth the risks. If you were here in person that might be a different story...
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Linda_Norway and jslasher88, this thread is for commending coworkers for doing frugal things, hence the "Anti-Anti." It looks like you both wanted the much longer "Overheard at Work" thread that bemoans the un-frugal choices of coworkers who complain they can't afford to save money (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/). (Both are interesting posts, though.)
My office usually has 4-6 days a month where we can wear jeans if we donate $5 or more to charity.
*snip*
Am I in the wrong here? Am I a terrible person for not participating in these charity days? I only make $15/hour right now, so $20-25/month adds up.
I don't think you are in the wrong at all. If anyone criticizes you, say "That doesn't fit my budget," "I donate through my church," "I already have plans for my charity dollars," or whatever applies.
Or even: "I don't like to wear jeans to work."
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My office usually has 4-6 days a month where we can wear jeans if we donate $5 or more to charity. Everyone goes absolutely giddy over these days (usually on Fridays). I rarely participate. And because of this, I take a lot heat.
I'm sorry, but wearing jeans to work once a week isn't worth $20/month to me. Especially when I have a pair of khakis that are just as comfortable and perfectly up to dress code.
My old employer had this. I always thought it was odd that people get so excited about the chance to "dress down", but then, I don't find jeans to be very comfortable. I've only got a couple of pair strictly for yard work and home improvement projects.
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LOL, Dollar Slice I get a few calls like that a month. Some elderly guy will want me to mail a catalog to him because he has "free time," and wants to know what we sell. Running a catalog and mailing it costs about $15 and normally I wouldn't bat an eye to mail a catalog to a customer because we can make it back if they buy, but for an elderly person that has no clue what we sell, I'm not going to spend the time. Maybe 10 years ago when we selling a different line of products, but not anymore.
Now that I think of it, I can't think of a single sale we made in the past year in which the customer did not have internet....
What do you sell anyways? (And can I get a catalog?)
Smoking paraphernalia, and no can't be seen to sell to non-businesses.
In that case, can I get some samples?
Sorry man, not worth the risks. If you were here in person that might be a different story...
PM me your address please.
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LOL, Dollar Slice I get a few calls like that a month. Some elderly guy will want me to mail a catalog to him because he has "free time," and wants to know what we sell. Running a catalog and mailing it costs about $15 and normally I wouldn't bat an eye to mail a catalog to a customer because we can make it back if they buy, but for an elderly person that has no clue what we sell, I'm not going to spend the time. Maybe 10 years ago when we selling a different line of products, but not anymore.
Now that I think of it, I can't think of a single sale we made in the past year in which the customer did not have internet....
What do you sell anyways? (And can I get a catalog?)
Smoking paraphernalia, and no can't be seen to sell to non-businesses.
In that case, can I get some samples?
Sorry man, not worth the risks. If you were here in person that might be a different story...
In that case, can I have a job?
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LOL, Dollar Slice I get a few calls like that a month. Some elderly guy will want me to mail a catalog to him because he has "free time," and wants to know what we sell. Running a catalog and mailing it costs about $15 and normally I wouldn't bat an eye to mail a catalog to a customer because we can make it back if they buy, but for an elderly person that has no clue what we sell, I'm not going to spend the time. Maybe 10 years ago when we selling a different line of products, but not anymore.
Now that I think of it, I can't think of a single sale we made in the past year in which the customer did not have internet....
What do you sell anyways? (And can I get a catalog?)
Smoking paraphernalia, and no can't be seen to sell to non-businesses.
In that case, can I get some samples?
Sorry man, not worth the risks. If you were here in person that might be a different story...
In that case, can I have a job?
LOL, not hiring.
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Several years back, when talking to the Admin assistant here at work, she was complaining about her cable/phone/internet bill, so I told her about how my DW calls at yearly intervals to threaten to change services so she can get some kind of discount. She called, and what they convinced her to do was add a bunch of services (pay channels, etc.) at "no additional charge for the first year." She agreed, and spent the last couple of years paying $260/month after the rates went up to "normal".
The happy ending is that she finally called them a couple of weeks back, and got them (after two days worth of calls) to remove some services and switch her to a lower tier plan that will save her over $80/month. She had apparently before been on their MOST expensive plan. Yes, she is still paying a lot by MMM standards, but at least she is now thinking about the $1000/year she could have had over the last couple of years and considering further changes. I'll keep giving her advice. . .
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Several years back, when talking to the Admin assistant here at work, she was complaining about her cable/phone/internet bill, so I told her about how my DW calls at yearly intervals to threaten to change services so she can get some kind of discount. She called, and what they convinced her to do was add a bunch of services (pay channels, etc.) at "no additional charge for the first year." She agreed, and spent the last couple of years paying $260/month after the rates went up to "normal".
The happy ending is that she finally called them a couple of weeks back, and got them (after two days worth of calls) to remove some services and switch her to a lower tier plan that will save her over $80/month. She had apparently before been on their MOST expensive plan. Yes, she is still paying a lot by MMM standards, but at least she is now thinking about the $1000/year she could have had over the last couple of years and considering further changes. I'll keep giving her advice. . .
I have to call Comcast soon to ask for a discount again. I really hate that call, not looking forward to it. But it'll probably save me like $240 so it's worth it
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Several years back, when talking to the Admin assistant here at work, she was complaining about her cable/phone/internet bill, so I told her about how my DW calls at yearly intervals to threaten to change services so she can get some kind of discount. She called, and what they convinced her to do was add a bunch of services (pay channels, etc.) at "no additional charge for the first year." She agreed, and spent the last couple of years paying $260/month after the rates went up to "normal".
This is amazing. Exactly the reason I pick and choose whom to share advice with. I mostly keep credit card and bank account churning to myself, for example.
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I have to call Comcast soon to ask for a discount again. I really hate that call, not looking forward to it. But it'll probably save me like $240 so it's worth it
Don't call - just do it via chat while you're watching tv or doing something else. If they won't bother to give you the discount, just end the chat and do it again.
Much less time wasted since I can just do something else at the same time. The only problem is I frequently forget I have the chat window open while I'm waiting to connect with someone so they end up waiting a few minutes before disconnecting and I have to start again at the beginning of the queue
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I have to call Comcast soon to ask for a discount again. I really hate that call, not looking forward to it. But it'll probably save me like $240 so it's worth it
Don't call - just do it via chat while you're watching tv or doing something else. If they won't bother to give you the discount, just end the chat and do it again.
Much less time wasted since I can just do something else at the same time. The only problem is I frequently forget I have the chat window open while I'm waiting to connect with someone so they end up waiting a few minutes before disconnecting and I have to start again at the beginning of the queue
Thanks, I'll try that. I seem to remember very long chat wait times... not sure why I thought I needed to call.
Is there a resource out there that tracks what deals people are getting? I never know if they offer something like $50/mo... is that good? Anything is better than nothing!
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I have to call Comcast soon to ask for a discount again. I really hate that call, not looking forward to it. But it'll probably save me like $240 so it's worth it
Don't call - just do it via chat while you're watching tv or doing something else. If they won't bother to give you the discount, just end the chat and do it again.
Much less time wasted since I can just do something else at the same time. The only problem is I frequently forget I have the chat window open while I'm waiting to connect with someone so they end up waiting a few minutes before disconnecting and I have to start again at the beginning of the queue
Thanks, I'll try that. I seem to remember very long chat wait times... not sure why I thought I needed to call.
Is there a resource out there that tracks what deals people are getting? I never know if they offer something like $50/mo... is that good? Anything is better than nothing!
whenever I've done it, they offer me the same "new customer" deals that are displayed on their website. So go check out what's being offered for your area, and ask for it. Be advised that you have to first tell them you want to cancel, so they transfer you to the retention department, THEN tell them you'll stay if you get discount X.
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I have to call Comcast soon to ask for a discount again. I really hate that call, not looking forward to it. But it'll probably save me like $240 so it's worth it
Don't call - just do it via chat while you're watching tv or doing something else. If they won't bother to give you the discount, just end the chat and do it again.
Much less time wasted since I can just do something else at the same time. The only problem is I frequently forget I have the chat window open while I'm waiting to connect with someone so they end up waiting a few minutes before disconnecting and I have to start again at the beginning of the queue
Thanks, I'll try that. I seem to remember very long chat wait times... not sure why I thought I needed to call.
Is there a resource out there that tracks what deals people are getting? I never know if they offer something like $50/mo... is that good? Anything is better than nothing!
whenever I've done it, they offer me the same "new customer" deals that are displayed on their website. So go check out what's being offered for your area, and ask for it. Be advised that you have to first tell them you want to cancel, so they transfer you to the retention department, THEN tell them you'll stay if you get discount X.
My cable company constantly mails mespams everyone in my neighborhood the new customer promo offers. Seems like a dick move to raise my rate since I've been a long time loyal customer. Seems like a super dick move to do that while simultaneously mailing the new customer rate adverts to my house every fucking month. If you don't want to honor that price stop spamming it to my address every month.
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I have to call Comcast soon to ask for a discount again. I really hate that call, not looking forward to it. But it'll probably save me like $240 so it's worth it
Don't call - just do it via chat while you're watching tv or doing something else. If they won't bother to give you the discount, just end the chat and do it again.
Much less time wasted since I can just do something else at the same time. The only problem is I frequently forget I have the chat window open while I'm waiting to connect with someone so they end up waiting a few minutes before disconnecting and I have to start again at the beginning of the queue
Thanks, I'll try that. I seem to remember very long chat wait times... not sure why I thought I needed to call.
Is there a resource out there that tracks what deals people are getting? I never know if they offer something like $50/mo... is that good? Anything is better than nothing!
whenever I've done it, they offer me the same "new customer" deals that are displayed on their website. So go check out what's being offered for your area, and ask for it. Be advised that you have to first tell them you want to cancel, so they transfer you to the retention department, THEN tell them you'll stay if you get discount X.
My cable company constantly mails mespams everyone in my neighborhood the new customer promo offers. Seems like a dick move to raise my rate since I've been a long time loyal customer. Seems like a super dick move to do that while simultaneously mailing the new customer rate adverts to my house every fucking month. If you don't want to honor that price stop spamming it to my address every month.
Those inapplicable new customer offers drive me nuts. We got lucky with a new salesperson last time I called and she made me a deal she probably shouldn't have (better internet, $30 less/month), and I legit had a dream the other night that Comcast figured it out and told us they couldn't honor the change. #frugalitynightmares
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Recently in the kitchen at work during lunch time.
I enter kitchen to use microwave to warm up my lunch when I see actually a line of people waiting!
There are 3 microwaves and all of them are busy.
Then one more colleagues shows up and says that another kitchen on the floor has one microwave which was busy and she came here to see the line as well!
People bring their own lunch on a regular basis.
Nice.
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Where I work, everybody has a security clearance. Yesterday my boss laid down a poster that you have to report to the security organ when you are in financial trouble.
I sometimes wonder whether my collegues think I am in financial trouble, as I am now eating homemade lunch as the only one in the department. I think I am probably one of the very few with a house without mortgage.
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Wher I work, everybody has a security clearance. Yesterday my boss laid down a poster that you have to report to the security organ when you are in financial trouble.
I sometimes wonder whether my collegues think I am in financial trouble, as I am now eating homemade lunch as the only one in the department. I think I am probably one of the very few with a house without mortgage.
This is true. For any issues (financial, drug-related, immediate family trouble) we are asked to report to our Security Office. They prefer this; they'll place the reporter in counseling and provide help as they don't want to lose a gov. employee. It is harder to find a replacement with a high level clearance. Similar for federal/DoD contractors.
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There are 3 microwaves and all of them are busy.
It's like a behind-the-scenes documentary on Applebee's.
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I have to call Comcast soon to ask for a discount again. I really hate that call, not looking forward to it. But it'll probably save me like $240 so it's worth it
Don't call - just do it via chat while you're watching tv or doing something else. If they won't bother to give you the discount, just end the chat and do it again.
Much less time wasted since I can just do something else at the same time. The only problem is I frequently forget I have the chat window open while I'm waiting to connect with someone so they end up waiting a few minutes before disconnecting and I have to start again at the beginning of the queue
Thanks, I'll try that. I seem to remember very long chat wait times... not sure why I thought I needed to call.
Is there a resource out there that tracks what deals people are getting? I never know if they offer something like $50/mo... is that good? Anything is better than nothing!
whenever I've done it, they offer me the same "new customer" deals that are displayed on their website. So go check out what's being offered for your area, and ask for it. Be advised that you have to first tell them you want to cancel, so they transfer you to the retention department, THEN tell them you'll stay if you get discount X.
My cable company constantly mails mespams everyone in my neighborhood the new customer promo offers. Seems like a dick move to raise my rate since I've been a long time loyal customer. Seems like a super dick move to do that while simultaneously mailing the new customer rate adverts to my house every fucking month. If you don't want to honor that price stop spamming it to my address every month.
Call them and demand the new customer rates or you'll cut the cord. Sometimes it works. I did this with several services back when we had debt and were on thin ice. Eventually we did cut the cord, didn't need lower interest rates on debt that was paid off, etc. etc.
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I have to call Comcast soon to ask for a discount again. I really hate that call, not looking forward to it. But it'll probably save me like $240 so it's worth it
Don't call - just do it via chat while you're watching tv or doing something else. If they won't bother to give you the discount, just end the chat and do it again.
Much less time wasted since I can just do something else at the same time. The only problem is I frequently forget I have the chat window open while I'm waiting to connect with someone so they end up waiting a few minutes before disconnecting and I have to start again at the beginning of the queue
Thanks, I'll try that. I seem to remember very long chat wait times... not sure why I thought I needed to call.
Is there a resource out there that tracks what deals people are getting? I never know if they offer something like $50/mo... is that good? Anything is better than nothing!
whenever I've done it, they offer me the same "new customer" deals that are displayed on their website. So go check out what's being offered for your area, and ask for it. Be advised that you have to first tell them you want to cancel, so they transfer you to the retention department, THEN tell them you'll stay if you get discount X.
My cable company constantly mails mespams everyone in my neighborhood the new customer promo offers. Seems like a dick move to raise my rate since I've been a long time loyal customer. Seems like a super dick move to do that while simultaneously mailing the new customer rate adverts to my house every fucking month. If you don't want to honor that price stop spamming it to my address every month.
Call them and demand the new customer rates or you'll cut the cord. Sometimes it works. I did this with several services back when we had debt and were on thin ice. Eventually we did cut the cord, didn't need lower interest rates on debt that was paid off, etc. etc.
If you're married and don't want to deal with this shit, just call and cancel. Tell them you're leaving the country so they don't badger you.
Then have your spouse get the new customer rate.
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I have to call Comcast soon to ask for a discount again. I really hate that call, not looking forward to it. But it'll probably save me like $240 so it's worth it
Don't call - just do it via chat while you're watching tv or doing something else. If they won't bother to give you the discount, just end the chat and do it again.
Much less time wasted since I can just do something else at the same time. The only problem is I frequently forget I have the chat window open while I'm waiting to connect with someone so they end up waiting a few minutes before disconnecting and I have to start again at the beginning of the queue
Thanks, I'll try that. I seem to remember very long chat wait times... not sure why I thought I needed to call.
Is there a resource out there that tracks what deals people are getting? I never know if they offer something like $50/mo... is that good? Anything is better than nothing!
whenever I've done it, they offer me the same "new customer" deals that are displayed on their website. So go check out what's being offered for your area, and ask for it. Be advised that you have to first tell them you want to cancel, so they transfer you to the retention department, THEN tell them you'll stay if you get discount X.
My cable company constantly mails mespams everyone in my neighborhood the new customer promo offers. Seems like a dick move to raise my rate since I've been a long time loyal customer. Seems like a super dick move to do that while simultaneously mailing the new customer rate adverts to my house every fucking month. If you don't want to honor that price stop spamming it to my address every month.
Call them and demand the new customer rates or you'll cut the cord. Sometimes it works. I did this with several services back when we had debt and were on thin ice. Eventually we did cut the cord, didn't need lower interest rates on debt that was paid off, etc. etc.
If you're married and don't want to deal with this shit, just call and cancel. Tell them you're leaving the country so they don't badger you.
Then have your spouse get the new customer rate.
With comcast, they've told me that promotions are not available to any address within a certain timeframe. When you do this, do you end up having a few days without service?
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If you're married and don't want to deal with this shit, just call and cancel. Tell them you're leaving the country so they don't badger you.
Then have your spouse get the new customer rate.
With comcast, they've told me that promotions are not available to any address within a certain timeframe. When you do this, do you end up having a few days without service?
Never had first hand experience as I am not married, but I've heard other people tell me they're able to do this without any disconnect of service. The reason is that even though you tell Comcast please cut service on day X, they don't actually cut the actual service for at least a couple days past X.
Guess you don't actually need to be married. Roommates will work fine too.
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I have to call Comcast soon to ask for a discount again. I really hate that call, not looking forward to it. But it'll probably save me like $240 so it's worth it
Don't call - just do it via chat while you're watching tv or doing something else. If they won't bother to give you the discount, just end the chat and do it again.
Much less time wasted since I can just do something else at the same time. The only problem is I frequently forget I have the chat window open while I'm waiting to connect with someone so they end up waiting a few minutes before disconnecting and I have to start again at the beginning of the queue
Thanks, I'll try that. I seem to remember very long chat wait times... not sure why I thought I needed to call.
Is there a resource out there that tracks what deals people are getting? I never know if they offer something like $50/mo... is that good? Anything is better than nothing!
whenever I've done it, they offer me the same "new customer" deals that are displayed on their website. So go check out what's being offered for your area, and ask for it. Be advised that you have to first tell them you want to cancel, so they transfer you to the retention department, THEN tell them you'll stay if you get discount X.
My cable company constantly mails mespams everyone in my neighborhood the new customer promo offers. Seems like a dick move to raise my rate since I've been a long time loyal customer. Seems like a super dick move to do that while simultaneously mailing the new customer rate adverts to my house every fucking month. If you don't want to honor that price stop spamming it to my address every month.
Call them and demand the new customer rates or you'll cut the cord. Sometimes it works. I did this with several services back when we had debt and were on thin ice. Eventually we did cut the cord, didn't need lower interest rates on debt that was paid off, etc. etc.
If you're married and don't want to deal with this shit, just call and cancel. Tell them you're leaving the country so they don't badger you.
Then have your spouse get the new customer rate.
With comcast, they've told me that promotions are not available to any address within a certain timeframe. When you do this, do you end up having a few days without service?
My never-fail go-to trick is to straight up tell them to cancel service. Why asked reason, mention the name of their direct competitor and their deal. If they don't agree, I tell them that I'm going to sign up with the other one's offer, cancel in 30 days (no cancellation or sign-up fee), and then sign-up back with the current provider. I tell them it'll will save them a lot of hassle in paperwork and their personal retention numbers will look bad especially at bonus time. Checkmate!
I do this for family too in local area. It ain't hard to pick up phone when family is sitting around gossiping and drinking sweet chai.
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I love the idea of getting a group of people together in one house (drinking chai works for me, YMMV), and then one of you calling to negotiate a price down with some random service-provider on speaker phone for everyone's entertainment. If any of you live in Charlotte, hit me up and we'll do this this weekend.
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One of my coworkers bought a modest condo (about 5X his yearly salary for the whole thing) and is looking at renegotiating his mortgage.
Apparently the mortgage broker got him a collateral mortgage. It sounds like it's a mortgage with a line of credit already built in. He's not too happy with it, didn't want that, and interest rates are even lower now than they were were when he signed.
Another one of my coworkers runs his own business on the side doing taxes. He has all sorts of great stories about mustachian and anti-mustachian clients.
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On the way back from a trade show, I found out my workers is quite mustachian, even if he hasn't learned about MMM yet. He's a year out of college, making a decent wage as an engineer. He rents a room from a mutual friend for $500/mo, and spends *maybe* another $500/mo on food, utilities, phone, etc. He's just socking away everything else.
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Had a conversation with a co-worker today. He knows I pay attention to finances and retirement. I and a fellow co-worker convinced him to max out our 401k sometime in the last 4 years and to invest it in a target date retirement fund (he wouldn't be comfortable being more aggressive). He felt the family budget now left them more money and was wondering what to do next. I asked about a Roth and a Spousal Roth. He was going to look into opening those soon. This is on top of him having a son with special needs that easily could justify "we can't afford to save."
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Had a conversation with a co-worker today. He knows I pay attention to finances and retirement. I and a fellow co-worker convinced him to max out our 401k sometime in the last 4 years and to invest it in a target date retirement fund (he wouldn't be comfortable being more aggressive). He felt the family budget now left them more money and was wondering what to do next. I asked about a Roth and a Spousal Roth. He was going to look into opening those soon. This is on top of him having a son with special needs that easily could justify "we can't afford to save."
Good job with your coworker!
"We (or You) can't afford not to save." is what I preach whenever possible.
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Had a conversation with a co-worker today. He knows I pay attention to finances and retirement. I and a fellow co-worker convinced him to max out our 401k sometime in the last 4 years and to invest it in a target date retirement fund (he wouldn't be comfortable being more aggressive). He felt the family budget now left them more money and was wondering what to do next. I asked about a Roth and a Spousal Roth. He was going to look into opening those soon. This is on top of him having a son with special needs that easily could justify "we can't afford to save."
Good job with your coworker!
"We (or You) can't afford not to save." is what I preach whenever possible.
Love this.
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A friend of mine makes $150k+ annually, by himself. His savings rate is 50%+ of after tax income. He lives alone, smack in the middle of a HCOL area. He has a very high discretionary income.
Aforementioned friend has an '03 Ford Ranger Pickup with a manual transmission. It's got 167k miles, doesn't have door locks (was broken into more than once), has a rebuilt title, and otherwise is just a very basic rather ugly car. It's not worth much, and just recently the clutch went out, and he'll likely have it towed to a shop. Some of his friends tell him to buy a new car, he laughs at them. For reference, similar vehicles can be purchased for about $3-5k depending on mileage/heritage.
A group of 5 of us (friend included) communicate via a group text message, to help him with his mechanical issues, as he's self-admittedly very non-mechanically inclined.
We asked him, what's your threshold for repair cost versus just dumping the pickup? He says, "I want to hit 250k miles, so I figure, probably $2000. If it's more than that, I might consider a new-to-me car, but even then, I might just repair it. I don't need a new car."
He paid $6500 for the car, 10 years ago, and has driven it 120k miles so far. This guy could easily purchase any new car he wanted to, but won't. FUCK YEA!
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A friend of mine makes $150k+ annually, by himself. His savings rate is 50%+ of after tax income. He lives alone, smack in the middle of a HCOL area. He has a very high discretionary income.
Aforementioned friend has an '03 Ford Ranger Pickup with a manual transmission. It's got 167k miles, doesn't have door locks (was broken into more than once), has a rebuilt title, and otherwise is just a very basic rather ugly car. It's not worth much, and just recently the clutch went out, and he'll likely have it towed to a shop. Some of his friends tell him to buy a new car, he laughs at them. For reference, similar vehicles can be purchased for about $3-5k depending on mileage/heritage.
A group of 5 of us (friend included) communicate via a group text message, to help him with his mechanical issues, as he's self-admittedly very non-mechanically inclined.
We asked him, what's your threshold for repair cost versus just dumping the pickup? He says, "I want to hit 250k miles, so I figure, probably $2000. If it's more than that, I might consider a new-to-me car, but even then, I might just repair it. I don't need a new car."
He paid $6500 for the car, 10 years ago, and has driven it 120k miles so far. This guy could easily purchase any new car he wanted to, but won't. FUCK YEA!
Seems like someone ripe for FIRE discussion! Has he shown any interest in FIRE?
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A friend of mine makes $150k+ annually, by himself. His savings rate is 50%+ of after tax income. He lives alone, smack in the middle of a HCOL area. He has a very high discretionary income.
Aforementioned friend has an '03 Ford Ranger Pickup with a manual transmission. It's got 167k miles, doesn't have door locks (was broken into more than once), has a rebuilt title, and otherwise is just a very basic rather ugly car. It's not worth much, and just recently the clutch went out, and he'll likely have it towed to a shop. Some of his friends tell him to buy a new car, he laughs at them. For reference, similar vehicles can be purchased for about $3-5k depending on mileage/heritage.
A group of 5 of us (friend included) communicate via a group text message, to help him with his mechanical issues, as he's self-admittedly very non-mechanically inclined.
We asked him, what's your threshold for repair cost versus just dumping the pickup? He says, "I want to hit 250k miles, so I figure, probably $2000. If it's more than that, I might consider a new-to-me car, but even then, I might just repair it. I don't need a new car."
He paid $6500 for the car, 10 years ago, and has driven it 120k miles so far. This guy could easily purchase any new car he wanted to, but won't. FUCK YEA!
Seems like someone ripe for FIRE discussion! Has he shown any interest in FIRE?
Ha. Turns out he introduced me to the forum. He's not as frugal with his money as he could be. But he's very frugal with his time. And he earns a shit load, and save the majority. His expenses could be lower, but he values what he spends his money on.
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P2F, though I don't have anything to add yet. I much prefer reading these stories, as compared to the negative thread.
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Not at work, but with a friend who is retired & somewhere in his late 60s, early 70s:
Him: "We wouldn't be able to live on our own/like we do if my wife hadn't insisted on paying off our mortgage years ago."
Me: Polite, quizzical noise to encourage him.
Him: "Against all math logic - our savings were earning 15%, and our mortgage was locked in at 6% or so, so I told her to save the inheritance she'd gotten and put it to work earning 15%, but she insisted on the peace of mind of a paid off mortgage. Then interest rates fell to single-digits, but we've been able to save all the money that we would've paid into the mortgage, earn some interest on it, and we don't have to worry about still owing the bank in our retirement."
He also told me they haven't borrowed any money since then, not even to buy the fancy but used vehicles they drive; bought them outright.
I had no idea they were a bit mustachian. :)
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My neighbors--every time I see the guy outside, he starts talking about how I should be investing in VTSMX. He and his wife were extremely fortunate--she was a flight attendant, and he a public school teacher, but they made the absolute most of it.
She now has a pension and free flights for them to go to their vacation home, or Costa Rica, or a cruise. He had a pension from the school system--he retired ASAP, then went to work in private education. All the while, both of them maxed their 401k/403b/whatever it was that was available. Now he complains that they make him take out more than he needs.
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My neighbors--every time I see the guy outside, he starts talking about how I should be investing in VTSMX. He and his wife were extremely fortunate--she was a flight attendant, and he a public school teacher, but they made the absolute most of it.
She now has a pension and free flights for them to go to their vacation home, or Costa Rica, or a cruise. He had a pension from the school system--he retired ASAP, then went to work in private education. All the while, both of them maxed their 401k/403b/whatever it was that was available. Now he complains that they make him take out more than he needs.
Poor guy.
(http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/crying-money-woody-harrelson-zombieland.gif)
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My boss told me they just finished paying his wife's student loans from veterinary school. He said they were ~$50k when they got married, and I don't think they've been married that long (5-6 years maybe? they have a 4 year old and a 2 year old), so it seems like they knocked it out pretty quickly. Not surprised. He brings his lunch almost every day, and it's usually leftovers.
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This might belong here.
A new initiative by Youth Food Movement Australia encourages workplaces to pool their leftovers to avoid food wastage and promote team bonding by cooking in the work kitchen.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-09/cook-at-work-to-wage-a-war-on-waste/8506486
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I'm just recovering from surgery, first week back. Can't bike to work yet (doctor's orders). Decided to Uber - $15 each way, for a three day work week.
One of my coworkers gave me his Uber login because he had $20 free on Uber that he's not going to use. Thanks, friend!
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I'm just recovering from surgery, first week back. Can't bike to work yet (doctor's orders). Decided to Uber - $15 each way, for a three day work week.
One of my coworkers gave me his Uber login because he had $20 free on Uber that he's not going to use. Thanks, friend!
If there are other similar services in your area (Lyft, Via, Gett, etc.), you can get free money through referrals if you sign up and try them out. I use Via and my friends get a $10 credit if they sign up through me. Not sure how much other services give.
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The owner of the building where I work recently changed out their halogen (I think) parking lot lights for LED fixtures. As it turns out, the old bulbs are similarly efficient to LEDs, but since the LED fixtures are more directional, they can be half the wattage and still illuminate the parking lot just as well. With the state rebates, it turned out to be a pretty good deal. Plus, they won't have to replace them for a *very* long time.
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The owner of the building where I work recently changed out their halogen (I think) parking lot lights for LED fixtures. As it turns out, the old bulbs are similarly efficient to LEDs, but since the LED fixtures are more directional, they can be half the wattage and still illuminate the parking lot just as well. With the state rebates, it turned out to be a pretty good deal. Plus, they won't have to replace them for a *very* long time.
I don't think they're similarly efficient... For one thing, the heat from Halogen alone has to mean that you're wasting a lot of energy. But good move though. I'm down to 1 halogen bulb left in the house, and maybe 10 CFL's in rarely used spaces (attic, basement)
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The owner of the building where I work recently changed out their halogen (I think) parking lot lights for LED fixtures. As it turns out, the old bulbs are similarly efficient to LEDs, but since the LED fixtures are more directional, they can be half the wattage and still illuminate the parking lot just as well. With the state rebates, it turned out to be a pretty good deal. Plus, they won't have to replace them for a *very* long time.
I don't think they're similarly efficient... For one thing, the heat from Halogen alone has to mean that you're wasting a lot of energy. But good move though. I'm down to 1 halogen bulb left in the house, and maybe 10 CFL's in rarely used spaces (attic, basement)
Maybe high-pressure sodium, then? When I did the research, it turned out to be similar lumens/watt.
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The owner of the building where I work recently changed out their halogen (I think) parking lot lights for LED fixtures. As it turns out, the old bulbs are similarly efficient to LEDs, but since the LED fixtures are more directional, they can be half the wattage and still illuminate the parking lot just as well. With the state rebates, it turned out to be a pretty good deal. Plus, they won't have to replace them for a *very* long time.
I don't think they're similarly efficient... For one thing, the heat from Halogen alone has to mean that you're wasting a lot of energy. But good move though. I'm down to 1 halogen bulb left in the house, and maybe 10 CFL's in rarely used spaces (attic, basement)
Maybe high-pressure sodium, then? When I did the research, it turned out to be similar lumens/watt.
That sounds more like it. Halogan use about 3 times more electricity per lumen.
Also LEDs have "problems" at night since they are more effective for blue light, but night lights need red.
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We're finally executing our geo-arbitrage plan. Moving to a 40% lower cost of living area but keeping our existing income, and continuing to work on lowering our spending. We've saved ~40%+ of our income annually since finding MMM 3 years ago. I think this move will boost that by an additional 15-20%!
Something that's been interesting in this process is the difference in conversations with co-workers.
Some can't believe that we would even think about moving our "entire family" out of the area, <sarcasm>which apparently is the one and only place one could possibly be in my industry</sarcasm>.
Other's immediately comment on the cost of living and quality of life gains. This latter reaction has lead to some very interesting conversations, getting very close to outing myself as a mustachian. But I just can't bring myself to do it with colleagues. Though I'm sure I've caught a knowing wink and/or glance in some situations. :-)
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Had a co-worker come to me on Monday and start off the conversation as follows: "So I was kinda drunk this weekend, and I did something stupid". My mind started formulating several scenarios - of both mundane and lurid variety. I was completely shocked when he proceeded to say "...and I maxed out my 401k contributions." Totally unexpected, and was really pumped for him. I informed him that what he did was the opposite of stupid, and something I want to do myself, but won't be able to until my student loans are paid off. We wound up talking about finances for a solid 15 minutes.
He's never come off as mustachian and I didn't bring up the site, maybe I will the next time the conversation veers in that direction.
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The owner of the building where I work recently changed out their halogen (I think) parking lot lights for LED fixtures. As it turns out, the old bulbs are similarly efficient to LEDs, but since the LED fixtures are more directional, they can be half the wattage and still illuminate the parking lot just as well. With the state rebates, it turned out to be a pretty good deal. Plus, they won't have to replace them for a *very* long time.
I don't think they're similarly efficient... For one thing, the heat from Halogen alone has to mean that you're wasting a lot of energy. But good move though. I'm down to 1 halogen bulb left in the house, and maybe 10 CFL's in rarely used spaces (attic, basement)
Maybe high-pressure sodium, then? When I did the research, it turned out to be similar lumens/watt.
That sounds more like it. Halogan use about 3 times more electricity per lumen.
Also LEDs have "problems" at night since they are more effective for blue light, but night lights need red.
According to Wikipedia, red-orange has the highest efficacy
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The owner of the building where I work recently changed out their halogen (I think) parking lot lights for LED fixtures. As it turns out, the old bulbs are similarly efficient to LEDs, but since the LED fixtures are more directional, they can be half the wattage and still illuminate the parking lot just as well. With the state rebates, it turned out to be a pretty good deal. Plus, they won't have to replace them for a *very* long time.
I was plant manager of a very large manufacturing plant recently. We switched out all of our halogen bulbs, and many of our fluorescent fixtures, with LED. The halogen was a no brainer, cost wise, the fluorescent, not so much. However - your last point is spot on. My maintenance guys were forever replacing bulbs. Between bulbs burning out, disposal and handling of tube fluorescents, and the rest, the cost was easily justifiable.
Plus, for the same amount of fixtures, we're getting an incredible amount more light. Replacing a ~100W worth of tube lights with 100W of LED fixtures increased the brightness by a factor of 2 or so.
Then, at the end, our power company gave us a large slug of money - which I didn't even account for.
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Had a co-worker come to me on Monday and start off the conversation as follows: "So I was kinda drunk this weekend, and I did something stupid". My mind started formulating several scenarios - of both mundane and lurid variety. I was completely shocked when he proceeded to say "...and I maxed out my 401k contributions." Totally unexpected, and was really pumped for him. I informed him that what he did was the opposite of stupid, and something I want to do myself, but won't be able to until my student loans are paid off. We wound up talking about finances for a solid 15 minutes.
He's never come off as mustachian and I didn't bring up the site, maybe I will the next time the conversation veers in that direction.
That's the most unexpected plot of the drunk weekend buddy comedy genre ever. Awesome!
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Had a co-worker come to me on Monday and start off the conversation as follows: "So I was kinda drunk this weekend, and I did something stupid". My mind started formulating several scenarios - of both mundane and lurid variety. I was completely shocked when he proceeded to say "...and I maxed out my 401k contributions." Totally unexpected, and was really pumped for him. I informed him that what he did was the opposite of stupid, and something I want to do myself, but won't be able to until my student loans are paid off. We wound up talking about finances for a solid 15 minutes.
He's never come off as mustachian and I didn't bring up the site, maybe I will the next time the conversation veers in that direction.
That's the most unexpected plot of the drunk weekend buddy comedy genre ever. Awesome!
"Hold my beer. I'm maxing out my 401k. If I survive, the HSA is next."
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Had a co-worker come to me on Monday and start off the conversation as follows: "So I was kinda drunk this weekend, and I did something stupid". My mind started formulating several scenarios - of both mundane and lurid variety. I was completely shocked when he proceeded to say "...and I maxed out my 401k contributions." Totally unexpected, and was really pumped for him. I informed him that what he did was the opposite of stupid, and something I want to do myself, but won't be able to until my student loans are paid off. We wound up talking about finances for a solid 15 minutes.
He's never come off as mustachian and I didn't bring up the site, maybe I will the next time the conversation veers in that direction.
That's the most unexpected plot of the drunk weekend buddy comedy genre ever. Awesome!
"Hold my beer. I'm maxing out my 401k. If I survive, the HSA is next."
Definitely drunk talking. You only do 401k to the match before maxing the HSA. Maxing the 401k is afterward, and possibly after maxing your IRA!
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coworker can't catch a break:
- Inherited house free and clear. Owes 3 years back taxes and is in constant fear of being foreclosed.
- No savings, no emergency account, no IRA, no 401k contributions. Emptied 401k earlier when previously laid off.
- Bought fancy truck for ~ annual salary. Traded it for different fancy truck 3 months later. Beater truck still worked.
- Needs fancy truck to tow cabin cruiser to and from lake, once per year each way.
- Owns several undriveable cars as nostalgia. Pays to garage them.
- Within 5 years of retirement. Life is unfair.
You probably want this thread: forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/
The one you posted in is for more uplifting overheard at work stuff.
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Had a co-worker come to me on Monday and start off the conversation as follows: "So I was kinda drunk this weekend, and I did something stupid". My mind started formulating several scenarios - of both mundane and lurid variety. I was completely shocked when he proceeded to say "...and I maxed out my 401k contributions." Totally unexpected, and was really pumped for him. I informed him that what he did was the opposite of stupid, and something I want to do myself, but won't be able to until my student loans are paid off. We wound up talking about finances for a solid 15 minutes.
He's never come off as mustachian and I didn't bring up the site, maybe I will the next time the conversation veers in that direction.
That's the most unexpected plot of the drunk weekend buddy comedy genre ever. Awesome!
Indeed it was!
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Had a co-worker come to me on Monday and start off the conversation as follows: "So I was kinda drunk this weekend, and I did something stupid". My mind started formulating several scenarios - of both mundane and lurid variety. I was completely shocked when he proceeded to say "...and I maxed out my 401k contributions." Totally unexpected, and was really pumped for him. I informed him that what he did was the opposite of stupid, and something I want to do myself, but won't be able to until my student loans are paid off. We wound up talking about finances for a solid 15 minutes.
He's never come off as mustachian and I didn't bring up the site, maybe I will the next time the conversation veers in that direction.
That's the most unexpected plot of the drunk weekend buddy comedy genre ever. Awesome!
Indeed it was!
http://www.theonion.com/article/man-wakes-up-from-bender-with-financial-problems-s-19858
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http://www.theonion.com/article/man-wakes-up-from-bender-with-financial-problems-s-19858
Discovering a completely deductible Roth IRA would be worth the hangover.
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http://www.theonion.com/article/man-wakes-up-from-bender-with-financial-problems-s-19858
Discovering a completely deductible Roth IRA would be worth the hangover.
Maybe some anonymous well-meaning Mustachian did this to this man while he was blacked out. And traded in his Lexus in the mans name. I guess it isn't very difficult to steal someones wallet, code brick, phone or whatever you need to get into his accounts.
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http://www.theonion.com/article/man-wakes-up-from-bender-with-financial-problems-s-19858
Discovering a completely deductible Roth IRA would be worth the hangover.
Maybe some anonymous well-meaning Mustachian did this to this man while he was blacked out. And traded in his Lexus in the mans name. I guess it isn't very difficult to steal someones wallet, code brick, phone or whatever you need to get into his accounts.
Linda I know you're from outside the U.S., so I just want to clarify in case you didn't know...The Onion is a satire and comedy website. None of their stories are real. It's possible you're just playing along with the "news story" though, so if so just ignore this.
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Had a co-worker come to me on Monday and start off the conversation as follows: "So I was kinda drunk this weekend, and I did something stupid". My mind started formulating several scenarios - of both mundane and lurid variety. I was completely shocked when he proceeded to say "...and I maxed out my 401k contributions." Totally unexpected, and was really pumped for him. I informed him that what he did was the opposite of stupid, and something I want to do myself, but won't be able to until my student loans are paid off. We wound up talking about finances for a solid 15 minutes.
He's never come off as mustachian and I didn't bring up the site, maybe I will the next time the conversation veers in that direction.
That's the most unexpected plot of the drunk weekend buddy comedy genre ever. Awesome!
Indeed it was!
http://www.theonion.com/article/man-wakes-up-from-bender-with-financial-problems-s-19858
Incredible! I will have to pass that along to my co-worker, I'm sure he'll get a kick out of it.
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Had a conversation with one of my coworkers today about HSA's - I've been meaning to sort out exactly what my options are at our company and mentioned it (I've been moving and haven't had time yet.) She apparently not only didn't realize you can invest the money, but thought it worked like a bigger FSA where you lose the money if you leave the company/change plans. She was really excited to hear that's not the case, and sounds like she'll be looking at setting one up!
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Overheard my former boss talking. Apparently he replaced his own fuel pump in has car over the weekend rather than take it to a mechanic to have it done. It was a pleasant surprise, since he's the type to eat lunch at the work cafeteria every day (or go off-campus with some colleagues).
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A coworker brought in a cake today to celebrate paying off her car. She drives a 2012 Prius that she bought new and has around 30,000 miles on it because "everywhere I need to go is within a few miles of my house". I asked about her house and she said she had around 8 years left paying on it. I suggested that she take that car payment and apply it to her mortgage each month, but she said she is already making double payments - the only reason she didn't refinance into a 15 year note was to have flexibility in case of a job loss. We talked a bit more about personal finance and she declared her intentions to retire by 50 - not too impressive around here I know, but where we work that is well ahead of the curve. It was so refreshing to hear her story as opposed to the rest of my coworkers who plan to be here for 20-30 more years and are the poster children for consumerism!
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A co-worker recently announced that he is retiring. He is *maybe* 48. We got to talking, and he told me that when he turned 40 he told his financial advisor that he'd like to retire by 50. The planner told him that he probably could do it sooner than that. So he did.
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Posting to follow. Most of my co-workers seem fairly frugal. One is sessional so he saves during the year to be able to take the entire summer off.
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A co-worker recently announced that he is retiring. He is *maybe* 48. We got to talking, and he told me that when he turned 40 he told his financial advisor that he'd like to retire by 50. The planner told him that he probably could do it sooner than that. So he did.
That must have been some good financial advisor. As I sometimes hear people on this site who have talked to advisors who don't understand the concept of badass saving.
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A co-worker recently announced that he is retiring. He is *maybe* 48. We got to talking, and he told me that when he turned 40 he told his financial advisor that he'd like to retire by 50. The planner told him that he probably could do it sooner than that. So he did.
That must have been some good financial advisor. As I sometimes hear people on this site who have talked to advisors who don't understand the concept of badass saving.
From talking to him, it sounds like he already was well on his way there at 40.
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A co-worker recently announced that he is retiring. He is *maybe* 48. We got to talking, and he told me that when he turned 40 he told his financial advisor that he'd like to retire by 50. The planner told him that he probably could do it sooner than that. So he did.
That must have been some good financial advisor. As I sometimes hear people on this site who have talked to advisors who don't understand the concept of badass saving.
From talking to him, it sounds like he already was well on his way there at 40.
True, but I get the feeling that I could have $2M and be spending less than $25k annually and financial advisers would still tell me to keep working until I'm 65 or have $10M or some insane figure. I could be wrong, the one financial adviser I've spoke to was very complimentary towards my goals of Fire but he was seeing me as a friend and didn't charge for the session.
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A co-worker recently announced that he is retiring. He is *maybe* 48. We got to talking, and he told me that when he turned 40 he told his financial advisor that he'd like to retire by 50. The planner told him that he probably could do it sooner than that. So he did.
That must have been some good financial advisor. As I sometimes hear people on this site who have talked to advisors who don't understand the concept of badass saving.
From talking to him, it sounds like he already was well on his way there at 40.
True, but I get the feeling that I could have $2M and be spending less than $25k annually and financial advisers would still tell me to keep working until I'm 65 or have $10M or some insane figure. I could be wrong, the one financial adviser I've spoke to was very complimentary towards my goals of Fire but he was seeing me as a friend and didn't charge for the session.
That may be true. I have never had any dealings with a financial advisor, so wouldn't really know one way or the other.
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Long time lurker, first time poster.
My Chemical Engineering department hosts an annual symposium meant for connecting students to industry and academic contacts in a specific industry. The panel gets a question every year about the advice they would give to engineers just starting out. There is always the run-of-the-mill professional advice. This year, one of the panelists changed it up, and said, "Don't out-spend what you earn as a chemical engineering. You'll suddenly qualify for loans to buy a $300k home, and a $60k car. But that's outspending what you earn. Live on one income if you're partnered. For single folks, try living on half your income, though that is a little more difficult."
It sparked a great discussion at my table where the Dean of the College was sitting with us. The dean followed up that advice with part of the reason: "You might need to walk away from the job one day: ethical, professional, or familial reasons. Don't get stuck in financial handcuffs."
I was pleasantly surprised to receive some practical advice.
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Last year's summer intern is now this year's new team member. Yesterday she proudly showed me her lunchbox and asked me how to take advantage of the tax-free, company-subsidized public transit program. She's also carless and living with two roommates. This one has promise!
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One of my colleagues used to drive a really old car with 300K kms on the meter. His wife hates going on vacation with that car, because it has broken downa couple of time before, on a vacation. This year they discussed renting a car for the vacation. He ended up buying a new Volvo of the most expensive model. In Norway it costs more than a million Norwegian crowns, which is a lot of dollars (>110K).
Maybe if he keeps driving it forever, like his previous car, it might be a good deal eventually...?
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Today is the day after Amazon "prime day." Everyone is bragging about how much money they spent on "deals" they didn't need or plan on buying. Many of the same people I've heard complaining about tight finances are boasting about the biggest deals, coincidence?
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Today is the day after Amazon "prime day." Everyone is bragging about how much money they spent on "deals" they didn't need or plan on buying. Many of the same people I've heard complaining about tight finances are boasting about the biggest deals, coincidence?
I have to remind my girlfriend of this often. Just because you "saved" an arbitrary amount doesn't negate the fact that you spent a very real amount on something you may or may not actually need.
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The last few posters might want to head over to the "Overheard at Work" thread... this is the confusingly named anti-anti-mustachian thread, where the negatives cancel each other out. We're supposed to share mustachian work stories here! :-)
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Had a conversation with a co-worker today. He knows I pay attention to finances and retirement. I and a fellow co-worker convinced him to max out our 401k sometime in the last 4 years and to invest it in a target date retirement fund (he wouldn't be comfortable being more aggressive). He felt the family budget now left them more money and was wondering what to do next. I asked about a Roth and a Spousal Roth. He was going to look into opening those soon. This is on top of him having a son with special needs that easily could justify "we can't afford to save."
I married a woman with a child who has special needs. It became one of my missions in life to make damn sure we had something to save. A substantial something to save.
There were a lot of things in life I would have preferred doing to working so damn hard to make that happen.
I guess it's about priorities.
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Our new employee visited Wisconsin over the weekend. While she was there, she picked up a case of beer (~$30) that you can apparently only get in Wisconsin. She was on public transit, carrying the case home, when somebody offered her $100 for the case because he really liked the beer and didn't want to go to Wisconsin. Tidy $70 profit for her!
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Our new employee visited Wisconsin over the weekend. While she was there, she picked up a case of beer (~$30) that you can apparently only get in Wisconsin. She was on public transit, carrying the case home, when somebody offered her $100 for the case because he really liked the beer and didn't want to go to Wisconsin. Tidy $70 profit for her!
That'll be New Glarus, probably Spotted Cow. Good beer for sure--maybe even my favorite beer--but the prices are insane. I usually have one or two while out at a bar when I'm in Wisconsin.
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Our new employee visited Wisconsin over the weekend. While she was there, she picked up a case of beer (~$30) that you can apparently only get in Wisconsin. She was on public transit, carrying the case home, when somebody offered her $100 for the case because he really liked the beer and didn't want to go to Wisconsin. Tidy $70 profit for her!
That'll be New Glarus, probably Spotted Cow. Good beer for sure--maybe even my favorite beer--but the prices are insane. I usually have one or two while out at a bar when I'm in Wisconsin.
I'm a huge beer lover and really don't see the appeal of Spotted Cow. Maybe I just have too much Minnesotan in me. When driving throuh WI I do love stopping to pick up beer as there are a ton of beers that aren't sold in Minnesota*.
*I squeeled like a little kid when I walked into a beer store near my office and saw that Dogfish is now being carried in Minnesota. The employees there know remember me though instead of laughing at me, I get the "Fight Club nod."
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Our new employee visited Wisconsin over the weekend. While she was there, she picked up a case of beer (~$30) that you can apparently only get in Wisconsin. She was on public transit, carrying the case home, when somebody offered her $100 for the case because he really liked the beer and didn't want to go to Wisconsin. Tidy $70 profit for her!
That'll be New Glarus, probably Spotted Cow. Good beer for sure--maybe even my favorite beer--but the prices are insane. I usually have one or two while out at a bar when I'm in Wisconsin.
I'm a huge beer lover and really don't see the appeal of Spotted Cow. Maybe I just have too much Minnesotan in me. When driving throuh WI I do love stopping to pick up beer as there are a ton of beers that aren't sold in Minnesota*.
*I squeeled like a little kid when I walked into a beer store near my office and saw that Dogfish is now being carried in Minnesota. The employees there know remember me though instead of laughing at me, I get the "Fight Club nod."
Dogfish head is nasty to me. I've tried about 4 or 5 of them now. Just... No.
But then I'm typically only a fan of certain stouts, and then after that just Lagers/Kolsches/Pilsners.
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Our new employee visited Wisconsin over the weekend. While she was there, she picked up a case of beer (~$30) that you can apparently only get in Wisconsin. She was on public transit, carrying the case home, when somebody offered her $100 for the case because he really liked the beer and didn't want to go to Wisconsin. Tidy $70 profit for her!
That'll be New Glarus, probably Spotted Cow. Good beer for sure--maybe even my favorite beer--but the prices are insane. I usually have one or two while out at a bar when I'm in Wisconsin.
I'm a huge beer lover and really don't see the appeal of Spotted Cow. Maybe I just have too much Minnesotan in me. When driving throuh WI I do love stopping to pick up beer as there are a ton of beers that aren't sold in Minnesota*.
*I squeeled like a little kid when I walked into a beer store near my office and saw that Dogfish is now being carried in Minnesota. The employees there know remember me though instead of laughing at me, I get the "Fight Club nod."
Dogfish head is nasty to me. I've tried about 4 or 5 of them now. Just... No.
But then I'm typically only a fan of certain stouts, and then after that just Lagers/Kolsches/Pilsners.
Did you try the 240 minute IPA? It's got 200% ABV.
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I was taking care of my mom's (small) inheritance at Fidelity yesterday, while there the guy saw my other assets on his screen and complimented me on my simple 3 fund portfolio. He says he has trouble talking people into simple assets with low fees. Well that's a breath of fresh air! An investment adviser trying to advise people to buy index funds!
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Our new employee visited Wisconsin over the weekend. While she was there, she picked up a case of beer (~$30) that you can apparently only get in Wisconsin. She was on public transit, carrying the case home, when somebody offered her $100 for the case because he really liked the beer and didn't want to go to Wisconsin. Tidy $70 profit for her!
That'll be New Glarus, probably Spotted Cow. Good beer for sure--maybe even my favorite beer--but the prices are insane. I usually have one or two while out at a bar when I'm in Wisconsin.
I'm a huge beer lover and really don't see the appeal of Spotted Cow. Maybe I just have too much Minnesotan in me. When driving throuh WI I do love stopping to pick up beer as there are a ton of beers that aren't sold in Minnesota*.
*I squeeled like a little kid when I walked into a beer store near my office and saw that Dogfish is now being carried in Minnesota. The employees there know remember me though instead of laughing at me, I get the "Fight Club nod."
Dogfish head is nasty to me. I've tried about 4 or 5 of them now. Just... No.
But then I'm typically only a fan of certain stouts, and then after that just Lagers/Kolsches/Pilsners.
Did you try the 240 minute IPA? It's got 200% ABV.
Don't know. Don't care. Won't try it. I don't like boozey beers, and I don't like IPA's either.
(I'm assuming that said beer does exist and you meant 20% ABV)
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Did you try the 240 minute IPA? It's got 200% ABV.
Don't know. Don't care. Won't try it. I don't like boozey beers, and I don't like IPA's either.
(I'm assuming that said beer does exist and you meant 20% ABV)
Dragoncar was making a joke, as is usually the case. Dogfish head 120 minute IPA is a 15-20% beer. And is fantastic, at least to me. There's also 60 minute IPA and 90 minute, with ABV's at 6% and 9%.
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It is very sad to me that it took some back and forth on beer - literal foam - to push this thread to 20 pages. Are co workers really so dim? Or is it just selective perception?
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It is very sad to me that it took some back and forth on beer - literal foam - to push this thread to 20 pages. Are co workers really so dim? Or is it just selective perception?
I think it is more likely that we just don't see the anti-anti-mustachians because they're not flashy. And there are different levels of it—I think this thread is mostly just “mustachians spotted in the wild” rather than “financially responsible”—which while not mustachian, is also not anti-mustachian.
For instance, my director makes good money, is the type who never wants to retire because he really does enjoy what he does. He eats out lunch every day, and spends probably $50 a week on coffee. However, he has a car that is 20 years old, rides his bike to work quite often, bought his first house when he was 22, has Netflix instead of cable, etc.
Another colleague owns a condo, has roommates, brings her lunch to work. She, along with her brother, did about 25% of the work herself on her kitchen demo and renovation. But the kitchen didn’t need a reno, she just wanted it. She’s certainly not mustachian, but not anti-mustachian either.
But like I said in my first statement, the true anti-anti mustachians are hard to identify. People don’t brag out loud about increasing their 401k contributions or not buying a new car or not going out to dinner.
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Don't know. Don't care. Won't try it. I don't like boozey beers, and I don't like IPA's either.
(I'm assuming that said beer does exist and you meant 20% ABV)
Oh, now I see. Try the 0 minute IPW, it's right up your alley. It's got no hops, malts, yeast, or alcohol.
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Don't know. Don't care. Won't try it. I don't like boozey beers, and I don't like IPA's either.
(I'm assuming that said beer does exist and you meant 20% ABV)
Oh, now I see. Try the 0 minute IPW, it's right up your alley. It's got no hops, malts, yeast, or alcohol.
Unflavored for me!
(http://i.imgur.com/DQLG4zP.jpg)
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One of my newer coworkers (she's been here about a year, and I think she's 24 or so) was asking me about our retirement plans. We have an outrageously amazing match of 9% (100% match to 6% of your salary, then 50% match to a total of 9% of your salary), and she's already bumped up her contributions to make sure she's getting the whole 9% :)
She took the Fidelity "how much risk can you handle" quiz when she first signed up, and it has her in about 60% domestic stock, 30% foreign stock, and 10% bonds, with the domestic stock all in the lowest fee fund we have available. Fidelity has her split into 6 or 8 funds, most with higher expense ratios than I'd feel comfortable with, but overall her 401k is at 13.3% for the year, and I don't think any of the funds have expense ratios + management fee totals of more than 1%.
Personally I've done more research about my investments (TBH way too much, probably to the point of a minor obsession), but I'm so proud of her for taking full advantage of the match and worrying about it enough to have me make sure she's not stuck in a money market fund or something.
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Co-worker stated she is about finished paying off her school loans.
Co-worker: What am I going to do with all of this extra money each month?
Me (usually I don't talk about this stuff at work, but this just slipped out: Max out your 401k.
Co-worker: We already do that.
Me: That's great, how about your IRA?
Co-worker: We already do that too. What is there after that?
Me: Taxable accounts.
Co-worker: Hmm, we should save it, and probably will, but we might take a vacation with the first few months of an extra $1,200 in our bank accounts.
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Supervisor and I have spoken several times on the need to budget, plan and save for emergencies. She also thrift shops and brings her lunch every day.
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Had a conversation with a co-worker today. He knows I pay attention to finances and retirement. I and a fellow co-worker convinced him to max out our 401k sometime in the last 4 years and to invest it in a target date retirement fund (he wouldn't be comfortable being more aggressive). He felt the family budget now left them more money and was wondering what to do next. I asked about a Roth and a Spousal Roth. He was going to look into opening those soon. This is on top of him having a son with special needs that easily could justify "we can't afford to save."
I married a woman with a child who has special needs. It became one of my missions in life to make damn sure we had something to save. A substantial something to save.
There were a lot of things in life I would have preferred doing to working so damn hard to make that happen.
I guess it's about priorities.
Same here for our son with Down Syndrome, the need and drive to get something done for our child is a lot bigger than for ourself. Especially to cover his needs when we have passed on. Also, we are looking into a testament (will?) in the unlikely event of our passing simultaniously, which has restrictions on how his bequaethment can be spent and managed (to prevent .
[ontopic]
One of my colleagues is working to retire about 7 years ahead of time (he's in his early 50's now). He has his house payed off in the sense that he has a (fixed outcome) savings-insurance policy which covers the rest of the mortgage (and he still pays off some of it regularly). He has told me, multiple times, that his goal is to ease out of the job and train his successor over a number of years into the job while he takes more time to go out and have fun (he's a real nature/travel lover). Unfortunately the employer isn't too keen on shelling out for the talent needed to replace him and also requires years of experience in stead of the opportunity offered by said colleague...
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Those of you who are looking for a game plan for financially preparing to support special-needs adults when you're gone: check out this.
http://paulmerriman.com/turn-3000-50-million/
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I have another one for this thread!
A couple of coworkers who know I'm into investing recently asked for my advice on stocks and bonds. I was very happy to share what I knew, but at the same time, I did my best not to overload them with information. I can get really geeky about this topic. I decided to be judicious and just send them a couple of well-chosen links, tailored to their estimated risk tolerance and financial awareness levels, with the offer that I am always happy to discuss with them if they have any other follow up questions. I hope they take me up on it!
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At work today one of our senior anaesthetic consultants came up to me and said "I saw you on my train today". "My" train, as in, he only travels to work that way. I know how much he makes from publicly available information, and it's a 6 figure sum that starts with a 4.
I was seriously impressed. Obviously I don't know what else he spends his money on, but he gets a free carpark with his job so it's not like he'd have any difficulty parking. Yet he chooses to catch public transport.
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New guy in my department, fresh out of college, interned with us for two-ish years before graduating. Has roommate and talks frequently about how some people spend insane amounts of money on frivolous things. Packs lunch, doesn't go out to eat often. Only non-mustachian thing is that he lives in a somewhat expensive part of town with a view of the river, but like I said, he has a roommate so his rent is still less than it would be if he were living on his own closer to work.
Smart kid. I've been trying to slowly teach him not to make some of the same horrible financial mistakes I made at that age.
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Not a coworker, but wasn't worth starting a brand new thread over and I couldn't think of a better place for it:
I called an old college friend last night to wish her a happy birthday, and we spent about an hour catching up since we live in different parts of the country now. As we're talking, she suddenly says, "Pencilthinstash, you're the only person I know who's going to properly appreciate this, but... I've really started getting into minimalism lately." Starts going off on how she's majorly downsized over the past couple months, only spends money on things that add value to her life now, all the wonderful things that I've been lazily advocating for the last few years. She finally gets it. Kickass.
"Even better, now that I'm not buying unnecessary crap all the time, I've been saving SO much money, and it's helping me build my debt snowball even faster. I've paid off my credit cards, my car, now I just have student loans left. Need to start looking into investing soon..." Cool, so she's got the Dave Ramsey lingo/mentality. Not bad for someone who's freshly turned 27.
Now this girl is a badass to begin with (she's a full-time nurse about to finish putting herself through grad school, holy shit), so between her starting to get her financial house in order, and simultaneously discovering minimalism... I see my shot.
"You know, I started with Dave Ramsey too, but what made my finances REALLY come together... there's this blog you should check out. The dude who writes it retired at 30." She immediately starts asking questions about how that's even possible, so I give a 30 second overview, mention my favorite analogy of how Dave Ramsey is Weight Watchers, compared to MMM as a crazy triathlete. She pulled up the blog while we're still talking, and the first words out of her mouth: "Financial freedom through badassity? WHAT?!?!?" I told her to start at the beginning of the archives and just work her way forward...
Y'all, we may have a new convert on our hands soon.
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Y'all, we may have a new convert on our hands soon.
Invite her onto the forums with a proper handle so we can say hi!
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Found out that one my younger employees met with the 401k advisor today. She recently turned 21 and became eligible for our employer's plan, including its standard match and a frankly ridiculous company contribution. You go girl!
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Someone at work was talking about how they didn't shop too much, because they'd look at the thing they could buy, and the money they could continue to have, and think "Nah, I'd rather have the money."
I said that I was much the same in that, and one or two others agreed with this person when they said they didn't understand the concept of "retail therapy".
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Talk about millennials. We hired several young people to our department.
Me: Where do you live?
CW: In China town. I walk to the office!
Another young guy also was talking about not having a car and arranging commute around bus schedule.
Good job!
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I have found a young mustachian in the making at work, and I am thrilled! We recently hired a new young engineer. After some chatting recently, it turns out that she and her boyfriend are both quite frugal. We were talking about travel hacking one day, and she shyly made a reference to the face that her boyfriend had plans to retire early, 45 or so, and I jumped at the opening. Then last week she said he was talking about how he didn't think he really needed a car and could bike to work, cut down on carrying costs, etc. I'm pretty sure he reads here but doesn't post, from what she said. I'm super excited for her; she is young enough that there's a good chance they can FIRE much, much earlier than my husband and I will. I wish I'd had my head on so straight at that age!
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Sometime between 11:30 and 11:50 most days the whole office trickles into the conference room/lunch room. We break out our lunches and debate who is going to win the showcase showdown on the Prices Right.
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Open enrollment is coming up and the company is pushing the HDHP with HSA plan hard this year. A couple of coworkers have stopped by my desk to chat since they are considering switching from the regular plan to the HDHP this year and know that I am a bit of a personal finance geek. One coworker had a light go on over their head when I explained how HSAs work and how good the tax advantages are. The materials we have been given by the company don't mention that since the deductions are from payroll FICA taxes aren't paid on the contributions, nor do they mention that the account can be withdrawn from like an IRA at age 65, and there is only a tiny blurb about how there is a brokerage window but the marketing slick fails to mention that the fees subsidized by the company. It is such a slam dunk benefit that I am glad at least one other coworker is going to be making full use of it.
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Open enrollment is coming up and the company is pushing the HDHP with HSA plan hard this year. A couple of coworkers have stopped by my desk to chat since they are considering switching from the regular plan to the HDHP this year and know that I am a bit of a personal finance geek. One coworker had a light go on over their head when I explained how HSAs work and how good the tax advantages are. The materials we have been given by the company don't mention that since the deductions are from payroll FICA taxes aren't paid on the contributions, nor do they mention that the account can be withdrawn from like an IRA at age 65, and there is only a tiny blurb about how there is a brokerage window but the marketing slick fails to mention that the fees subsidized by the company. It is such a slam dunk benefit that I am glad at least one other coworker is going to be making full use of it.
My husband is on an HDHP with HSA. For the first time ever, we hit the deductible (a late night ER trip due to chest pains will do that). He says "how much do you think that ER trip cost?" I said "$2000". It was $2100. I'm good.
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Yesterday, going away lunch for a coworker going to some god-awful town in a flyover state. (kidding. A little. Seriously housing is super cheap though.)
One of my coworkers teases my boss about how he paid cash for his super expensive $70k car, can you believe that?? My boss (who is about my age, a bit younger says), "ha, MM pays cash for her cars too, that's where I got the idea!"
I said "well, yes, but my cars are under $20k. People used to tease me about carrying my lunch every dya. And one day, I just said 'You know, I did the math. By packing my lunch, husband's lunch, and kid's lunch every day, I save X amount a week. In 5 years it's $16,500, or a new car. And by the way, our car was just totaled in an accident, and I paid cash for a new compact."
Anyway, boss-man points out that because of me, he started going home for lunch every day. Saves money and allows him to decompress a bit.
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Had a conversation yesterday that started with conditions of our ESPP and how there is a holdback on the shares while selling to account for taxes.
Conversation took a turn to savings and I mentioned that co-worker should calculate a savings rate as it's a great number to track.
Turns out he already calculates it and his savings rate floats are 40%! I immediately showed him The Shockingly Simple Math Behind Early Retirement article so go along with his savings rate. We share an office and when I turned around an hour later he had another article on his screen. We may have a MMM convert here folks!
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Overheard my boss's peer telling his technicians how he started increasing his 401(k) contribution by $100 per week and seeing if it affects his lifestyle. He said he is already at $15k/year and the goal is to max out at $18k.
He's renovating a rental property by himself to keep costs low.
Also, he told some of the new techs that they should be living on only one spouse's income, we're federal IT contractors and things can go south any moment, so best to have emergency funds socked away.
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I had lunch with a friend/former colleague today.
She and her husband have been househunting for over a year. They live in a terrific apartment close to downtown, walkable to parks and stores, etc. I told her I'd starting looking at houses online, because H and I have started very initial conversations about downsizing and moving somewhere more walkable (although in our current suburb). She said, "I'm so glad to hear that!" She doesn't actually want a house, but she said there is so much peer pressure from other friends that they've been looking anyway (but haven't bought anything because the prices for a single family home in a similar location are gag-worthy). We had a nice long chat about the realities of home ownership and suburbia and how to handle judge-y spendypants friends.
She also mentioned that her husband is considering becoming a SAHD for a while, and casually mentioned that it would be fine financially, because they don't need his salary anyway (I think he makes $150k +).
Next time we go to lunch, I'll bring up the blog - I think she'll love it.
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Long time lurker, first post.
My employer has recently been recruiting heavily, mostly people in their early 20s at an entry point wage.
Employees are automatically registered in the company pension scheme at a 6% contribution for a 12% match.
Chatting to one girl yesterday. She's saving for a house and a wedding. Then she said she's just increased her contribution to the maximum 9% for the match. That's a total of 27% of her wage going into her pension at 21 years old!
So proud!
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Here's two...one is impressive, the other just makes me laugh:
#1: Coworker is and one of my best friends is a newer teacher. Told him about MMM about two years ago. He got hooked and now he has:
- Paid off all his student loans
- Helped pay for his wife's degree without taking a loan.
- Is currently selling his SUV for a prius.
- Moved from 45 minutes from our school to across the street.
- Saved up 25k to put a down payment on a 150k house (15 year fixed mortgage at 2.85%).
- Has set up a 403B through school and is doing 100% VTSAX
I am SO PROUD and impressed by his ability to hit the ground running quickly.
#2 This was family related, but yesterday was my mother-in-law's birthday. Her sister sent her a card in the mail. She laughed and said 10 BUCKS SAYS IT'S BLANK INSIDE:) Sure enough. I asked her why. She said that her sister thinks it's more thoughtful to leave cards blank so the recipient can save a couple bucks and regift it. I thought it was hilarious.
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#2 This was family related, but yesterday was my mother-in-law's birthday. Her sister sent her a card in the mail. She laughed and said 10 BUCKS SAYS IT'S BLANK INSIDE:) Sure enough. I asked her why. She said that her sister thinks it's more thoughtful to leave cards blank so the recipient can save a couple bucks and regift it. I thought it was hilarious.
This is a thing!
My mother and her friends actually exchange cards that they think are funny for birthdays. They leave them blank and don’t seal the envelope so they can be used again. If you knew my mother, this wouldn’t surprise you. I like the idea, but this is probably a technique that can only work in a group of longtime friends. Can you imagine just handing one of your coworkers a blank card and then after they open it and give you a quizzical look you announce, “I left it blank, so you can use it again.”?
http://thesimpleyear.com/hauling-the-mail/
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I do this! But I put sticky backed plastic over the inside, so you can write a heartfelt message and then wipe it off for reuse. Only to people who will appreciate the sentiment though!
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My daughter and I exchange cards, used ones are fine. The trick is that they have to be totally unrelated to the topic, They are then reworked with a cut and paste. She started with a mother's day card she sent for my (Dad) birthday. It's a laugh, since they end up looking like a ransom note made by a little kid.
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I do this! But I put sticky backed plastic over the inside, so you can write a heartfelt message and then wipe it off for reuse. Only to people who will appreciate the sentiment though!
I do this too! When they are done reading it, I ask for the card back. Saves me a decent amount of coin each year.
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I do this! But I put sticky backed plastic over the inside, so you can write a heartfelt message and then wipe it off for reuse. Only to people who will appreciate the sentiment though!
...really? I know you said only to people who will appreciate the sentiment, but I just can't imagine how you'd start doing something like that. I only give cards to my parents now.
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My family has a birthday card that gets passed around from member to member of the extended family. The difference is that we actually write in it. Half the fun is reading the notes to and from other family members. It shows up in my neck-of-the-woods every 5 years or so...
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My family has a birthday card that gets passed around from member to member of the extended family. The difference is that we actually write in it. Half the fun is reading the notes to and from other family members. It shows up in my neck-of-the-woods every 5 years or so...
Now that is fun!
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I do this! But I put sticky backed plastic over the inside, so you can write a heartfelt message and then wipe it off for reuse. Only to people who will appreciate the sentiment though!
...really? I know you said only to people who will appreciate the sentiment, but I just can't imagine how you'd start doing something like that. I only give cards to my parents now.
It started off with valentines cards with my SO (purchased the day after), as SO has been conditioned to believe that there are gifting obligations for 14th February and I think that being in an awesome relationship is the gift. I mentioned it to a friend who was ranting about the environmental cost of over-packaged pink chocolates and cards and we started doing the same thing for birthday cards. The friend thought it was funny and suggested it to a couple of mutual friends and it spread from there.
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My family re-uses gift bags. Post-it notes are allowed, pen on the gift tag attached to the bag is not.
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My family re-uses gift bags. Post-it notes are allowed, pen on the gift tag attached to the bag is not.
It's totally allowed! You just cut off the gift tag when it's been written on. After that, you make a hand-made tag or card
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My family re-uses gift bags. Post-it notes are allowed, pen on the gift tag attached to the bag is not.
It's totally allowed! You just cut off the gift tag when it's been written on. After that, you make a hand-made tag or card
Yup! Usually they start out folded and blank inside, so you write on one side, gift it, and the recipient cuts off the written side of the tag to use the remaining blank side. After that you devolve to handmade. :)
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One of my colleagues used to drive a really old car with 300K kms on the meter. His wife hates going on vacation with that car, because it has broken downa couple of time before, on a vacation. This year they discussed renting a car for the vacation. He ended up buying a new Volvo of the most expensive model. In Norway it costs more than a million Norwegian crowns, which is a lot of dollars (>110K).
Maybe if he keeps driving it forever, like his previous car, it might be a good deal eventually...?
Now they don't make Volvos like they used to, but if it does anywhere near as well as my dad's 1996 Volvo V70 it may not be the worst deal in the long run ;). His has well over 400K km on the clock (was at 400400 in December 2015).
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My family re-uses gift bags. Post-it notes are allowed, pen on the gift tag attached to the bag is not.
It's totally allowed! You just cut off the gift tag when it's been written on. After that, you make a hand-made tag or card
Here it's widely accepted that gift bags are re-used, but the Post-It idea is ... interesting. We use the tag, then cut if off and put a card in the bag.
I think I've posted previously that I've also mastered the art of cutting a bottle gift bag down into two smaller bags. I'm using up a stash of bottle bags from our 30th this way.
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One of my colleagues used to drive a really old car with 300K kms on the meter. His wife hates going on vacation with that car, because it has broken downa couple of time before, on a vacation. This year they discussed renting a car for the vacation. He ended up buying a new Volvo of the most expensive model. In Norway it costs more than a million Norwegian crowns, which is a lot of dollars (>110K).
Maybe if he keeps driving it forever, like his previous car, it might be a good deal eventually...?
Now they don't make Volvos like they used to, but if it does anywhere near as well as my dad's 1996 Volvo V70 it may not be the worst deal in the long run ;). His has well over 400K km on the clock (was at 400400 in December 2015).
My mother drove a 1983 volvo until 2008. When she traded it in, the dealership mounted it on a display with a little scope so potential customers could see the odometer (which was above 460,000).
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I've got one: Our employer is based in Illinois. One of my coworkers finagled himself a transfer to Utah. That got me thinking, and I did a little research and ran a few numbers. I figured out that if I got the same transfer, it would be equivalent to getting a $15,000/year raise, due primarily to the lower taxes (and despite the higher home prices!) in Utah.
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I've seen ballpark estimates of the cost of a move at $30,000 (I'm sure a Mustachian could do it for less).
With that cost, a move to Utah has a payback period of two years...not bad!
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I've seen ballpark estimates of the cost of a move at $30,000 (I'm sure a Mustachian could do it for less).
What? That's super high! We spent only $5k (reimbursed) on moving costs and we paid a moving company to move our stuff 1,500 miles. I suppose if you have to ship a car or two and have the moving company pack all your stuff for you it would be more expensive, but I still don't see how you could reach $30k levels.
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At that rate you would almost be bettter off getting rid of all your stuff in a garage sale and buying new on the other side.
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I've seen ballpark estimates of the cost of a move at $30,000 (I'm sure a Mustachian could do it for less).
What? That's super high! We spent only $5k (reimbursed) on moving costs and we paid a moving company to move our stuff 1,500 miles. I suppose if you have to ship a car or two and have the moving company pack all your stuff for you it would be more expensive, but I still don't see how you could reach $30k levels.
The cost of selling and buying a modest house would eat most of that. I just sold a house for $160k and lost nearly $12k to real estate agents, title fee's, etc.
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I've seen ballpark estimates of the cost of a move at $30,000 (I'm sure a Mustachian could do it for less).
What? That's super high! We spent only $5k (reimbursed) on moving costs and we paid a moving company to move our stuff 1,500 miles. I suppose if you have to ship a car or two and have the moving company pack all your stuff for you it would be more expensive, but I still don't see how you could reach $30k levels.
The cost of selling and buying a modest house would eat most of that. I just sold a house for $160k and lost nearly $12k to real estate agents, title fee's, etc.
That's a good point. 6% of a $300k house is $18k, plus title fees, closing costs, etc.
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I've seen ballpark estimates of the cost of a move at $30,000 (I'm sure a Mustachian could do it for less).
What? That's super high! We spent only $5k (reimbursed) on moving costs and we paid a moving company to move our stuff 1,500 miles. I suppose if you have to ship a car or two and have the moving company pack all your stuff for you it would be more expensive, but I still don't see how you could reach $30k levels.
The cost of selling and buying a modest house would eat most of that. I just sold a house for $160k and lost nearly $12k to real estate agents, title fee's, etc.
Ah, I had not considered that might be included in the $30k number. It is definitely much cheaper to move if you are currently renting.
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One of the great things about renting is that moving is easy. Many people buy when they should rent precisely because of how likely they are to move again. I worked with a friend five years ago. She's made four moves since 2012, and she sold real estate during at least two of those. It's hard to build up the stash when you're paying a realtor annually.
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A friend of mine quit her job because she was burned out and exhausted. She's taking a few months to replenish her energy. I told I was happy for her for putting herself in a position where she could take the time off. :)
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Co-worker my age (late 20's) was telling me what a great deal the local Yacht Club had for Millennials. Instead of paying ridiculous membership fees, you "only" had to pay $50 a month, as long as you spent at least $100 each month at the club restaurant - "which is so easy to do, not a problem at all! And this way it's affordable for young people to join!"
$50 membership fee + $100 in food = $150
$150 x 12 months = $1,800 per year
Yeah, super cheap.
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Co-worker my age (late 20's) was telling me what a great deal the local Yacht Club had for Millennials. Instead of paying ridiculous membership fees, you "only" had to pay $50 a month, as long as you spent at least $100 each month at the club restaurant - "which is so easy to do, not a problem at all! And this way it's affordable for young people to join!"
$50 membership fee + $100 in food = $150
$150 x 12 months = $1,800 per year
Yeah, super cheap.
I think you wanted the other thread for this one.
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Co-worker my age (late 20's) was telling me what a great deal the local Yacht Club had for Millennials. Instead of paying ridiculous membership fees, you "only" had to pay $50 a month, as long as you spent at least $100 each month at the club restaurant - "which is so easy to do, not a problem at all! And this way it's affordable for young people to join!"
$50 membership fee + $100 in food = $150
$150 x 12 months = $1,800 per year
Yeah, super cheap.
How much is it normally?
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I recently made the transition from blue-collar temp work to an office career. My coworkers have been very supportive.
"How far is it for you to bike to work?"
"If you can, you should probably increase your student loan payments. Interest rates are going up. Be glad you don't have a mortgage!"
"Hey, I'm going to X, do you want to carpool?"
"I got a really good deal on this cellphone service..."
"I heard you play games. There's a new HumbleBundle coming out, you should check it out!"
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Currently on maternity leave. Went into work for coffee with my manager to discuss my return to work. I have known for a long time that she's financially savvy, but it really struck me that it's amazing to tell someone that you're planning to drop your household income considerably (husband and I are both dropping to 0.6FTE) and have them compliment you on making a good decision for your family instead of wondering how you can afford it.
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Not where to put this otherwise, so I'll just put it in here.
I told a frugal colleague today that I saved 60% of my nett income last year. She was impressed. Then she started to think aloud that I was probably into the stock market and such and that that would explain the number. Then I told her it was 60% of not spending our income, nothing to do with stock market. I did mention it was from 2 very good incomes and not having children.
This was because we were discussing the pension reform that our job is not going to do. She told me she was saving privately for pension and asked me if I did the same.
She is one of the very frugal people in our department, who always thinks twice before spending money on things. She uses her savings for visiting family in the USA every year and maybe other things I don't know about.
I was probably bragging a bit... (shame on me)
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My best friend paid off her (used) truck today a year early. She doesn't need a truck, but I couldn't talk her out of it. I put this here because she immediately told the bank to start sticking the payment in her savings because she'd need to buy another car eventually. She's recently divorced and struggles to make ends meet. This was a big deal for her and I'm glad she's thinking ahead.
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One of my former soldiers is a successful real estate agent in Florida. The last two days he's posted the following on FB:
"People, there is a difference between good debt and bad debt. Focus on building an asset before you take that "baller" Liability
I'm tired of people not being able to afford that dream house because they just had to had that new tv or fancy car...
Cash flow does not solve your debt problems.
#beacheapass #bebroke #assetsbeforliabilities #saynotothatcar #saynotothattv"
He also posted the anti-MLM comment attached.
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One of my former soldiers is a successful real estate agent in Florida. The last two days he's posted the following on FB:
"People, there is a difference between good debt and bad debt. Focus on building an asset before you take that "baller" Liability
I'm tired of people not being able to afford that dream house because they just had to had that new tv or fancy car...
I'm curious about what sort of TV would affect a person's finances so dramatically as to prevent them from purchasing a house. I can see a car doing that (see the $104k F350 or whatever it was), but a TV?
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One of my former soldiers is a successful real estate agent in Florida. The last two days he's posted the following on FB:
"People, there is a difference between good debt and bad debt. Focus on building an asset before you take that "baller" Liability
I'm tired of people not being able to afford that dream house because they just had to had that new tv or fancy car...
I'm curious about what sort of TV would affect a person's finances so dramatically as to prevent them from purchasing a house. I can see a car doing that (see the $104k F350 or whatever it was), but a TV?
That $3k television could have set them back a few months depending on their savings rate. Buying it on credit means an even bigger bite out of the budget.
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My supervisor thrifts, and high-fived me when I said I got my pants from Goodwill.
I told another co-worker that I'm trying to save money by eating in more (I've had some slip-ups lately), and she said she was making an effort to eat only groceries.
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My supervisor thrifts, and high-fived me when I said I got my pants from Goodwill.
I told another co-worker that I'm trying to save money by eating in more (I've had some slip-ups lately), and she said she was making an effort to eat only groceries.
\
LOL ! As opposed to eating the cleaning supplies and paper towels? I think my mind forgot that take out / restaurants are the norm for some people... I could only picture my grocery shopping trip items.
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After the issues the NHS had around getting hacked last year, health organisations the world over have cracked down on access to networks, including ours. There are a limited number of computers you can use to access external websites.
Our department has 2. When the stock market had its little "correction" last month, there was a queue of 5 people waiting to use said computers. To buy more.
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After the issues the NHS had around getting hacked last year, health organisations the world over have cracked down on access to networks, including ours. There are a limited number of computers you can use to access external websites.
Our department has 2. When the stock market had its little "correction" last month, there was a queue of 5 people waiting to use said computers. To buy more.
Love this!
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My supervisor thrifts, and high-fived me when I said I got my pants from Goodwill.
I told another co-worker that I'm trying to save money by eating in more (I've had some slip-ups lately), and she said she was making an effort to eat only groceries.
\
LOL ! As opposed to eating the cleaning supplies and paper towels? I think my mind forgot that take out / restaurants are the norm for some people... I could only picture my grocery shopping trip items.
There was a trend involving a "cotton ball diet" a year or two ago. And the Venomous Spaz Beast has been known to chow down on unattended Kleenex.
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Coworkers were talking today about investing in blue chip stocks! I would join the conversation except I'm not that close to them and would feel like I was intruding on their conversation.
Still, I am so pleased they're talking about that instead of the latest dumb celebrity!
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Coworkers were talking today about investing in blue chip stocks! I would join the conversation except I'm not that close to them and would feel like I was intruding on their conversation.
Still, I am so pleased they're talking about that instead of the latest dumb celebrity!
Probably because mainstream media is reporting on Peter Navarro's spouting of "Buy the dips".
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/02/peter-navarro-if-we-hit-all-points-of-trumps-agenda-market-will-go-up.html
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Coworkers were talking today about investing in blue chip stocks! I would join the conversation except I'm not that close to them and would feel like I was intruding on their conversation.
Still, I am so pleased they're talking about that instead of the latest dumb celebrity!
Probably because mainstream media is reporting on Peter Navarro's spouting of "Buy the dips".
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/02/peter-navarro-if-we-hit-all-points-of-trumps-agenda-market-will-go-up.html
But I live on the other side of the world, in a country where less than 0.1% of the population invests in the stock market ;)
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Just had a refreshing conversation with a fellow manager here at MegaCorp. He was talking about how he'd like to work for a financial adviser when he retires and only help low/negative net worth people, working for free. He then started talking about a Backdoor Roth and how he took advantage of it, so I turned him on to the idea of the Mega Backdoor Roth. He was heading back to his desk to start doing some research... I think this is the first of many finance discussions we'll be having! He's definitely higher income and probably more of a Boglehead than Mustachian, but it's always refreshing to meet people who've got their shit together.
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I've been very vague about the details of my backdoor Roth at work: it's easier for me to express mustachian values than for me to just straight up admit having earned too much money for the front-door Roth.
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A coworker is quite young - 22/23, and overall quite uneducated about personal finance. She had a problem with her taxes earlier this year and I helped her out a bit. She was asking another coworker about investments this week and I quietly sent her the J Collin's site. She's smart, seems pretty level headed, and since she's asking questions so young I think she'll be just fine.
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A colleague told me about just paying off her husband’s $100k in student loans at 8.5%, and then we discussed what they would prioritize next - maxing our both their 401ks and their IRAs, and maybe holding off on their car loan which is at 0% interest.
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A younger team mate told me this morning that she wants to be good with her money so she has options when she has kids :D
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Went down to heat lunch up in the communal microwave. Since that takes forever and a day I got to talk to the guy restocking the vending machines. We had a conversation about how expensive and unhealthy it is to eat out and how we couldn't understand people who did it all the time.
He was cute too.
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The accountant at my company recently told me about the plan he and his wife have for the next few years. Once they're done paying for their kids college, they're going to buy an RV, quit their jobs, and live off of savings. Not die-hard mustachian, but he's till talking about getting out of the rat race in his early 50s based partly on low cost of living (Buying a RV is a pittance compared to the $700k minimum to buy a house in this town).
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Went down to heat lunch up in the communal microwave. Since that takes forever and a day I got to talk to the guy restocking the vending machines. We had a conversation about how expensive and unhealthy it is to eat out and how we couldn't understand people who did it all the time.
He was cute too.
Of corse he doesn’t eat out. His home is filled with delicious hostess cakes and chip bags.
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Went down to heat lunch up in the communal microwave. Since that takes forever and a day I got to talk to the guy restocking the vending machines. We had a conversation about how expensive and unhealthy it is to eat out and how we couldn't understand people who did it all the time.
He was cute too.
Of corse he doesn’t eat out. His home is filled with delicious hostess cakes and chip bags.
One of those enterprising young people who take their work home with them?
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Went down to heat lunch up in the communal microwave. Since that takes forever and a day I got to talk to the guy restocking the vending machines. We had a conversation about how expensive and unhealthy it is to eat out and how we couldn't understand people who did it all the time.
He was cute too.
Of corse he doesn’t eat out. His home is filled with delicious hostess cakes and chip bags.
One of those enterprising young people who take their work home with them?
I assume he is frugal and sleeps in the back of the vending machine
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Coworkers were talking today about investing in blue chip stocks! I would join the conversation except I'm not that close to them and would feel like I was intruding on their conversation.
Still, I am so pleased they're talking about that instead of the latest dumb celebrity!
Probably because mainstream media is reporting on Peter Navarro's spouting of "Buy the dips".
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/02/peter-navarro-if-we-hit-all-points-of-trumps-agenda-market-will-go-up.html
But I live on the other side of the world, in a country where less than 0.1% of the population invests in the stock market ;)
Wait, if you're on the other side of the world, wouldn't you want to buy the blips and not the dips?
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One of my coworkers has moved on to recommending new friends based on their level of frugality/interest in savings, lol. We always talk about our retirement savings plans, and he's currently working on a huge debt snowball of his and his wife's cars, student loans, and their house. Today, though, he was like "So, do you know so-and-so? You should talk to him, he likes to talk about stuff like this, he's good at saving."
I love that we're building a secret network of frugal friends :)
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so they announced they needed 24 people to get off the plane, of which 10 could fly out the same night and get $400 or leave the following day on any flight and get $800 plus hotel...my hand shot up pretty quick to volunteer...
You know, if I had the option to fly one day later and get a hotel room and 800$ for it, I would fly a day later every day!
Doesn't that mean you would never get to were you thought you were going?
:o)
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so they announced they needed 24 people to get off the plane, of which 10 could fly out the same night and get $400 or leave the following day on any flight and get $800 plus hotel...my hand shot up pretty quick to volunteer...
You know, if I had the option to fly one day later and get a hotel room and 800$ for it, I would fly a day later every day!
Doesn't that mean you would never get to were you thought you were going?
:o)
I'd take $292k for a year of being redirected... You can do whatever you want in the mean time.
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We try to gently give some guidance to some close friends who seem to live a frugal Mustachian lifestyle without being pushy or intrusive and they are usually receptive. They recently closed on their first home (a nice reasonable one within their budget) and decided to refinish the wood floor before moving in. While the floors were being redone they stayed with us for 3 nights. One morning the wife was trying to figure out what to do for lunch. We had a little leftover from the taco dinner from the night before (no more tacos left but plenty of fillings) that I had put in a tuperware when I cleaned up the night before. We already had our own lunches planned so I gave this to her and she was psyched to have something to take with her. That night she exclaimed how great it was but was even more excited that she had't broken her streak. Since starting her new career as a PT last summer she has managed to bring her lunch every day. I am so psyched they seem to be doing so many things right! I also recently created a spreadsheet for them to track their net worth as I personally find it motivating. I mentioned it to the husband when we went for a run together then shared it with the wife one of the nights when she was at the house. When we saw them a few nights later she said how excited she was about it. I think we have some Mustachian's in the making!
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I'll leave this here as I don't see a better place for it.
Yesterday, I had lunch with my college age son. He tells me that his girl friend's parents have just figured out that they have nothing for retirement saved. Now, they're around 50, both working in management for megacorp, currently have 3 kids in college, own 2 boats and have either 3 or 4 crap cars and the mother is talking about buying a range rover. Their lifestyle matches their sail boat. It's moored at the yacht club which has an annual fee of "if you have to ask, you can't afford it". No, really, when you go on their web page, that's what it says. They also have a power boat that appears to be a lawn ornament. They do use the sail boat a lot and from what my son tells me, it sort of eats watches and fancy pants iPhones and wallets from people falling overboard or saving other people who have fallen overboard. So I guess they had not counted on the costs of college for their 3 kids and now are going to see a financial guy to figure out what to do. Heck.....I know what to do. Sell the freaking boats, cancel the yacht club membership, put money into a freaking 401k (I looked up their company on glass door and the match is awesome) and stop throwing money into the water.
/rant
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so they announced they needed 24 people to get off the plane, of which 10 could fly out the same night and get $400 or leave the following day on any flight and get $800 plus hotel...my hand shot up pretty quick to volunteer...
You know, if I had the option to fly one day later and get a hotel room and 800$ for it, I would fly a day later every day!
Doesn't that mean you would never get to were you thought you were going?
:o)
All of life is but a journey...
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I'll leave this here as I don't see a better place for it.
Yesterday, I had lunch with my college age son. He tells me that his girl friend's parents have just figured out that they have nothing for retirement saved. Now, they're around 50, both working in management for megacorp, currently have 3 kids in college, own 2 boats and have either 3 or 4 crap cars and the mother is talking about buying a range rover. Their lifestyle matches their sail boat. It's moored at the yacht club which has an annual fee of "if you have to ask, you can't afford it". No, really, when you go on their web page, that's what it says. They also have a power boat that appears to be a lawn ornament. They do use the sail boat a lot and from what my son tells me, it sort of eats watches and fancy pants iPhones and wallets from people falling overboard or saving other people who have fallen overboard. So I guess they had not counted on the costs of college for their 3 kids and now are going to see a financial guy to figure out what to do. Heck.....I know what to do. Sell the freaking boats, cancel the yacht club membership, put money into a freaking 401k (I looked up their company on glass door and the match is awesome) and stop throwing money into the water.
/rant
Wrong thread - this one is for sharing stories about mustachians in the wild :-)
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Not overheard, but a coworker told me he's paying an extra grand off his mortgage every month :D so happy for him.
(I'm in Australia where the "pay down the mortgage" maths is different, so no need to start that old debate).
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Not overheard, but a coworker told me he's paying an extra grand off his mortgage every month :D so happy for him.
(I'm in Australia where the "pay down the mortgage" maths is different, so no need to start that old debate).
but, but...
oh ok.
wish we had offset accounts though....
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I'll leave this here as I don't see a better place for it.
Yesterday, I had lunch with my college age son. He tells me that his girl friend's parents have just figured out that they have nothing for retirement saved. Now, they're around 50, both working in management for megacorp, currently have 3 kids in college, own 2 boats and have either 3 or 4 crap cars and the mother is talking about buying a range rover. Their lifestyle matches their sail boat. It's moored at the yacht club which has an annual fee of "if you have to ask, you can't afford it". No, really, when you go on their web page, that's what it says. They also have a power boat that appears to be a lawn ornament. They do use the sail boat a lot and from what my son tells me, it sort of eats watches and fancy pants iPhones and wallets from people falling overboard or saving other people who have fallen overboard. So I guess they had not counted on the costs of college for their 3 kids and now are going to see a financial guy to figure out what to do. Heck.....I know what to do. Sell the freaking boats, cancel the yacht club membership, put money into a freaking 401k (I looked up their company on glass door and the match is awesome) and stop throwing money into the water.
/rant
Hoping your son's GF is low-maintenance and not like her parents.
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3 days back I watched on youtube jlcollinsnh at Google Talks.
Joined a new company recently. Team sitting next to me are contractors, different employer. Today I heard the guys talking about the same youtube video. They were going to check their 401k for the total stock, bond, sp500 funds. Later, coming back to my desk, one guy is reading jlcollinsnh stock series. Gave him a thumbs up.
Might have a bunch of savvy's sitting in my 'hood. Chuffed.
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Not overheard, but a coworker told me he's paying an extra grand off his mortgage every month :D so happy for him.
(I'm in Australia where the "pay down the mortgage" maths is different, so no need to start that old debate).
but, but...
oh ok.
wish we had offset accounts though....
Offset accounts are the perk we get for having to live upside down ;-)
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Not overheard, but a coworker told me he's paying an extra grand off his mortgage every month :D so happy for him.
(I'm in Australia where the "pay down the mortgage" maths is different, so no need to start that old debate).
but, but...
oh ok.
wish we had offset accounts though....
Offset accounts are the perk we get for having to live upside down ;-)
Well, since you put it that way, I guess it sounds fair. But you also have kangaroos and koalas, so there's that...
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and wombats!
Wombats are cool.
Oh yes, definitely.
My local Pirate Party (Germany) even did Wombat election posters - not for a special reason, just because they are cute :D
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Not overheard, but a coworker told me he's paying an extra grand off his mortgage every month :D so happy for him.
(I'm in Australia where the "pay down the mortgage" maths is different, so no need to start that old debate).
but, but...
oh ok.
wish we had offset accounts though....
Offset accounts are the perk we get for having to live upside down ;-)
Well, since you put it that way, I guess it sounds fair. But you also have kangaroos and koalas, so there's that...
And now the “John Oliver Koala Chlamydia Ward” XD
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We have an intern at work we took to lunch (on the office dime, of course... I always bring my own lunch otherwise!) and he was talking about his second job that's he's starting up again. He is in school and is interning for the summer, and he works at a restaurant chain in through the school year and is able to do a transfer for the summer here. Just like he did last year when we interned with us. Anyway, I always thought that was great and he's a hard worker, but when he was talking about this again to my coworkers, I missed the beginning of the conversation but he was saying he wouldn't give up that part time job because he wouldn't want to give up the 401k. Oh, and he bikes instead of drives to the office. It's closer this year, but last summer he biked for 1 hour each way! And the summers here are brutal.
Smart kid! The other intern we had after him last year spent his money as fast as he could earn it.
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Offset accounts are the perk we get for having to live upside down ;-)
On the other hand, I saw an ad the other night for personal loans, boasting about a fixed rate of "only" 11.99%.... about 13.5% comparison rate.
People do apparently take this up. Can you not just... save up? I mean, if you don't have spare cash or can't budget, okay, fair enough... but if you can afford payments of $X a week on a loan, then you can afford savings of $X a week.
Then of course there's "afterpay"...
Did no-one else as a kid have to save their pocket money to build a model aeroplane or scooter or something?
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Offset accounts are the perk we get for having to live upside down ;-)
On the other hand, I saw an ad the other night for personal loans, boasting about a fixed rate of "only" 11.99%.... about 13.5% comparison rate.
People do apparently take this up. Can you not just... save up? I mean, if you don't have spare cash or can't budget, okay, fair enough... but if you can afford payments of $X a week on a loan, then you can afford savings of $X a week.
Then of course there's "afterpay"...
Did no-one else as a kid have to save their pocket money to build a model aeroplane or scooter or something?
It's even worse than that. I just googled "payday loans" and opened the first result that wasn't an ad. Rapid cash, in Washington State, gives an "example finance charge" table - if you borrow $500, you have a finance charge of $75 (assuming all payments are made as scheduled), which they calculate as an APR of 391% if you get a 14 day loan, or 182.5% for a 30 day loan. Even with no extra fees, that's 15%.
If someone is bad enough off that they need $500 immediately, and then they have to pay it back on their next paycheck, it seems likely that their next pay cycle is going to be any better and they'll just end up $75 more in the hole every month :(
Ouch. I just looked it up for Colorado. Borrow $400 for 5 months, pay $269.49 in financing charges (!!!!), for a total repayment amount of $669.49. "Finance charged - you will pay 45% per annum of the principal balance with a one-time origination fee of $20 per $100 on loans up to $300 plus $7.50 per $100 for $301 to $400, plus $7.50 per $100 per month for maintenance after the first month."
How is this shit legal?
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How is this shit legal?
Those places are ALL OVER my area. Makes me sick. They are predators.
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How is this shit legal?
Those places are ALL OVER my area. Makes me sick. They are predators.
They also serve a part of the population that, for whatever reason, cannot have a bank account or obtain a conventional loan. Most of them are poor or low-income and nearly all are bad credit risks. Many have no fixed address but do have a steady income. Unlike a bank loan or a credit card, you get the money the same day and you don't need to have a mailing address or multiple pay stubs. If you're having trouble with the language or have a learning disability, the application process is tailored to make it easy to apply. You don't have to plow through stacks of papers and re-re-re-redo the applications. There's so much in the way of "process-ease" at a mainstream bank that people could be excused for not wanting to do business with them.
I'm not a fan of the exorbitant interest rates but I do notice that it's generally cheaper for a person to take out a 2-week loan for the rent money than to get evicted or to bounce multiple checks. Also, the companies that provide payday loans are *way* better at communicating the total cost of a loan, and there aren't any extra "gotcha" fees or hidden penalties such as banks enjoy dishing out.
Some of us have discussed the "poor tax" elsewhere on the forum. But short-term loans and pawn facilities do have a legitimate place in society. They won't ever be the financially optimal way to do business; they're a last resort for people who don't have other choices.
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I started my new job yesterday. Today I was told I'll "fit in well" because I made a comment about a free lunch being the best lunch. Then one coworker told me the story of how another coworker once ate week-old Kraft mac & cheese leftovers.
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How is this shit legal?
Those places are ALL OVER my area. Makes me sick. They are predators.
I have never understood the concept of predatory lender. I'm not defending anyone or trying to start an argument, but someone needs to explain it to me. If I open a storefront and sell a product that does exactly what it is supposed to, only I charge way more than others, how does that make me a predator?
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How is this shit legal?
Those places are ALL OVER my area. Makes me sick. They are predators.
They also serve a part of the population that, for whatever reason, cannot have a bank account or obtain a conventional loan. Most of them are poor or low-income and nearly all are bad credit risks. Many have no fixed address but do have a steady income. Unlike a bank loan or a credit card, you get the money the same day and you don't need to have a mailing address or multiple pay stubs. If you're having trouble with the language or have a learning disability, the application process is tailored to make it easy to apply. You don't have to plow through stacks of papers and re-re-re-redo the applications. There's so much in the way of "process-ease" at a mainstream bank that people could be excused for not wanting to do business with them.
I'm not a fan of the exorbitant interest rates but I do notice that it's generally cheaper for a person to take out a 2-week loan for the rent money than to get evicted or to bounce multiple checks. Also, the companies that provide payday loans are *way* better at communicating the total cost of a loan, and there aren't any extra "gotcha" fees or hidden penalties such as banks enjoy dishing out.
Some of us have discussed the "poor tax" elsewhere on the forum. But short-term loans and pawn facilities do have a legitimate place in society. They won't ever be the financially optimal way to do business; they're a last resort for people who don't have other choices.
I agree that exorbitant interest rates are cheaper than losing your house or your job for lack of transport, but >40% interest is, for lack of a different word, heartbreaking. I hate that there is nothing else in our system that can help people who need a (relatively) small amount of cash for an unexpected event. I unfortunately have no suggestions for a better way of doing things, because I have no idea how the banking industry works.
How is this shit legal?
Those places are ALL OVER my area. Makes me sick. They are predators.
I have never understood the concept of predatory lender. I'm not defending anyone or trying to start an argument, but someone needs to explain it to me. If I open a storefront and sell a product that does exactly what it is supposed to, only I charge way more than others, how does that make me a predator?
To me it isn't the fact that someone is charging way more than others, it's the fact that the whole payday loan industry does it as a standard. For some of these people there is no other recourse to get the money, and they don't have any option besides paying a LOT for it. I understand that making a profit is important, but I can't reconcile that with the part of me that feels like people are practically being robbed because they don't have choices. Like I said, I have no good solutions, it just makes me sad that this is how things are.
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I think it's also important to remember that the payday lenders also have little recourse if the borrower defaults, and the interest rates reflect that risk.
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I agree that exorbitant interest rates are cheaper than losing your house or your job for lack of transport, but >40% interest is, for lack of a different word, heartbreaking.
There is a word. Several in fact. My translation website says:
Substantive
extortion
racketeering
usuries
gombeen [FINAN.]
usury [FINAN.]
daylight robbery (Amer.)
I never read gombeen before. Looks Victorian-age for me :D
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How is this shit legal?
Those places are ALL OVER my area. Makes me sick. They are predators.
They also serve a part of the population that, for whatever reason, cannot have a bank account or obtain a conventional loan. Most of them are poor or low-income and nearly all are bad credit risks. Many have no fixed address but do have a steady income. Unlike a bank loan or a credit card, you get the money the same day and you don't need to have a mailing address or multiple pay stubs. If you're having trouble with the language or have a learning disability, the application process is tailored to make it easy to apply. You don't have to plow through stacks of papers and re-re-re-redo the applications. There's so much in the way of "process-ease" at a mainstream bank that people could be excused for not wanting to do business with them.
I'm not a fan of the exorbitant interest rates but I do notice that it's generally cheaper for a person to take out a 2-week loan for the rent money than to get evicted or to bounce multiple checks. Also, the companies that provide payday loans are *way* better at communicating the total cost of a loan, and there aren't any extra "gotcha" fees or hidden penalties such as banks enjoy dishing out.
Some of us have discussed the "poor tax" elsewhere on the forum. But short-term loans and pawn facilities do have a legitimate place in society. They won't ever be the financially optimal way to do business; they're a last resort for people who don't have other choices.
This is a good explanation, it's really a tough situation and I don't know of a better solution. If you put legal limits on what these businesses can charge, at what limit would they still be profitable? They provide a service and they need to be profitable. If on the other hand if they are extremely profitable as it is, then maybe there is room to place limits on fees.
But now that we can't hate on payday loan businesses, may I suggest hating rent-to-own appliance and furniture stores? Those guys are the worst.
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I agree that exorbitant interest rates are cheaper than losing your house or your job for lack of transport, but >40% interest is, for lack of a different word, heartbreaking.
There is a word. Several in fact. My translation website says:
Substantive
extortion
racketeering
usuries
gombeen [FINAN.]
usury [FINAN.]
daylight robbery (Amer.)
I never read gombeen before. Looks Victorian-age for me :D
Gombeen was in common usage when I lived in Ireland - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombeen_man
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I agree that exorbitant interest rates are cheaper than losing your house or your job for lack of transport, but >40% interest is, for lack of a different word, heartbreaking.
There is a word. Several in fact. My translation website says:
Substantive
extortion
racketeering
usuries
gombeen [FINAN.]
usury [FINAN.]
daylight robbery (Amer.)
I never read gombeen before. Looks Victorian-age for me :D
Gombeen was in common usage when I lived in Ireland - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombeen_man
...shopkeepers and merchants who exploited the starving during the Irish Famine (1845-49)
Well, perfect fit then, Victoria started a decade earlier ^^
Ah, slang words, always a favorite dig for us writers :D I want to invent one that wil be known in all the world ;)
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How is this shit legal?
Those places are ALL OVER my area. Makes me sick. They are predators.
I have never understood the concept of predatory lender. I'm not defending anyone or trying to start an argument, but someone needs to explain it to me. If I open a storefront and sell a product that does exactly what it is supposed to, only I charge way more than others, how does that make me a predator?
It's predatory because it targets and profits off people in a disadvantaged situation. It's not necessarily even immoral, and could even be argued a net positive to society, but I do think it's predatory.
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How is this shit legal?
Those places are ALL OVER my area. Makes me sick. They are predators.
I have never understood the concept of predatory lender. I'm not defending anyone or trying to start an argument, but someone needs to explain it to me. If I open a storefront and sell a product that does exactly what it is supposed to, only I charge way more than others, how does that make me a predator?
It's predatory because it targets and profits off people in a disadvantaged situation. It's not necessarily even immoral, and could even be argued a net positive to society, but I do think it's predatory.
I get that it is something that only people in bad financial situations use it, I get that there could a moral problem. But how is it predatory? Someone opened a business, their client walked in and agreed to the terms.
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By which reasoning, being a pimp to homeless people or drug dealer to the poor is not predatory, either.
There are some people here who I won't be asking for advice on ethical investments.
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My understanding is that the predatory element isn't necessarily the initial loan at high interest rates. Rather, it is a combination of obscuring the total cost of the loan from people who are likely to be financially and literally less literate, and encouraging an enduring relationship with the lender against the client's interests (e.g. upselling: "While you're here getting a loan for your rent and groceries, you could always tack on the cost of the latest iPhone! Payments would only be £10 more!"*)
*Terms and conditions apply, you will now end up increasing the payment period by 100 years - obscuring the true cost by giving selective details...
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The Unbanking of America was a really interesting look at the payday loan/check cashing industry and how the people who use these services value them and feel that banks do not want their business. Many feel that the clearly defined costs of these businesses save them money over banks with their overdraft fees and whatnot.
The author actually got jobs working at a couple of these establishments and got to know the customers.
I'm not exactly defending the business model, but it was a really eye-opening book for me--their customers just relate to money really differently from how I do.
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How is this shit legal?
Those places are ALL OVER my area. Makes me sick. They are predators.
I have never understood the concept of predatory lender. I'm not defending anyone or trying to start an argument, but someone needs to explain it to me. If I open a storefront and sell a product that does exactly what it is supposed to, only I charge way more than others, how does that make me a predator?
It's predatory because it targets and profits off people in a disadvantaged situation. It's not necessarily even immoral, and could even be argued a net positive to society, but I do think it's predatory.
I get that it is something that only people in bad financial situations use it, I get that there could a moral problem. But how is it predatory? Someone opened a business, their client walked in and agreed to the terms.
The venus flytrap simply opens it's doors and offers a sweet nectar. Totally the fly's fault if it wanders in.
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How is this shit legal?
Those places are ALL OVER my area. Makes me sick. They are predators.
I have never understood the concept of predatory lender. I'm not defending anyone or trying to start an argument, but someone needs to explain it to me. If I open a storefront and sell a product that does exactly what it is supposed to, only I charge way more than others, how does that make me a predator?
It's predatory because it targets and profits off people in a disadvantaged situation. It's not necessarily even immoral, and could even be argued a net positive to society, but I do think it's predatory.
I get that it is something that only people in bad financial situations use it, I get that there could a moral problem. But how is it predatory? Someone opened a business, their client walked in and agreed to the terms.
Are you taking predatory to mean that they must be seeking out their "prey"? Or that they are misleading their customers? Because I don't think either of these are implied by the definition of predatory.
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How is this shit legal?
Those places are ALL OVER my area. Makes me sick. They are predators.
I have never understood the concept of predatory lender. I'm not defending anyone or trying to start an argument, but someone needs to explain it to me. If I open a storefront and sell a product that does exactly what it is supposed to, only I charge way more than others, how does that make me a predator?
It's predatory because it targets and profits off people in a disadvantaged situation. It's not necessarily even immoral, and could even be argued a net positive to society, but I do think it's predatory.
I get that it is something that only people in bad financial situations use it, I get that there could a moral problem. But how is it predatory? Someone opened a business, their client walked in and agreed to the terms.
Are you taking predatory to mean that they must be seeking out their "prey"? Or that they are misleading their customers? Because I don't think either of these are implied by the definition of predatory.
There's a spectrum of practice associated with payday lending just as there is with banking. There are indeed lenders in the payday loan field who misrepresent their interest rates and hide their rules in the fine print so that they trap their customers into deals they don't understand... just as there are banks where it's common to open new accounts under a customer's name without their consent, or knowingly cash a stolen bank draft. All these activities are illegal, but there are some businesses out there that break the law.
The problem is that when one doesn't have direct experience or even a good, solid objective look at an industry, the only things that stand out will be the egregious extremes. Most banks would object to being characterized by the illegal behavior of W**** F**** for example. Yet because pretty much everyone here knows the ins and outs of banking and has done business with a variety of banks we've got the necessary perspective to draw distinctions between good and bad vendors. I doubt that more than a handful of people on this forum have ever been inside a title loan or payday loan company, much less enough different ones to have an accurate perspective of the good and bad points of the industry.
I will note that most banks are subject to federal regulation, whereas payday loan companies are generally smaller and subject to state regulation. State politicians are far more honest than federal ones, and by that I mean that they stay bought when it's time to vote for or against a bill. Payday lenders know how to lobby and who needs "campaign contributions". So although some states have been successful in capping interest rates, not all have.
As to the high interest rates, payday loans are made to high-risk individuals who often cannot get credit any other way. There's risk associated with this kind of loan. Has anyone actually studied whether the amount of interest charged might be proportionate to the risk the lender is taking?
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John Oliver did a piece on payday loans a couple years ago. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PDylgzybWAw
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How is this shit legal?
Those places are ALL OVER my area. Makes me sick. They are predators.
I have never understood the concept of predatory lender. I'm not defending anyone or trying to start an argument, but someone needs to explain it to me. If I open a storefront and sell a product that does exactly what it is supposed to, only I charge way more than others, how does that make me a predator?
It's predatory because it targets and profits off people in a disadvantaged situation. It's not necessarily even immoral, and could even be argued a net positive to society, but I do think it's predatory.
I get that it is something that only people in bad financial situations use it, I get that there could a moral problem. But how is it predatory? Someone opened a business, their client walked in and agreed to the terms.
Are you taking predatory to mean that they must be seeking out their "prey"? Or that they are misleading their customers? Because I don't think either of these are implied by the definition of predatory.
There's a spectrum of practice associated with payday lending just as there is with banking. There are indeed lenders in the payday loan field who misrepresent their interest rates and hide their rules in the fine print so that they trap their customers into deals they don't understand... just as there are banks where it's common to open new accounts under a customer's name without their consent, or knowingly cash a stolen bank draft. All these activities are illegal, but there are some businesses out there that break the law.
The problem is that when one doesn't have direct experience or even a good, solid objective look at an industry, the only things that stand out will be the egregious extremes. Most banks would object to being characterized by the illegal behavior of W**** F**** for example. Yet because pretty much everyone here knows the ins and outs of banking and has done business with a variety of banks we've got the necessary perspective to draw distinctions between good and bad vendors. I doubt that more than a handful of people on this forum have ever been inside a title loan or payday loan company, much less enough different ones to have an accurate perspective of the good and bad points of the industry.
I will note that most banks are subject to federal regulation, whereas payday loan companies are generally smaller and subject to state regulation. State politicians are far more honest than federal ones, and by that I mean that they stay bought when it's time to vote for or against a bill. Payday lenders know how to lobby and who needs "campaign contributions". So although some states have been successful in capping interest rates, not all have.
As to the high interest rates, payday loans are made to high-risk individuals who often cannot get credit any other way. There's risk associated with this kind of loan. Has anyone actually studied whether the amount of interest charged might be proportionate to the risk the lender is taking?
The risk is mainly for the lender, the amounts are generally not large enough to bring the payday loan company into problems unless a large amount of customers default but I can't imagine that being the case.
My biggest qualm with these loans is the inherent lack of a background check. When I take a bank loan or mortgage I have to specify my income to bills ratio including all other loans (including overdraft and creditcard). I checked with a payday loan company (out of interest, not necessity) and all they asked was income and rent/mortgage totals, no info on other loans or whatever.
What happens next is that people who are greedy (can't wait a week for their new iPhone) and people with problematic finances are interested. The iPhone people will likely pay back without issue (although I have read that youths got into problems because they didn't oversee the results of this harmless loan) but tje other group is in a downward negative spiral where the added cost of the payday loan adds to the spiral and only makes it harder to escape. Worse even is that these people will see the loans as a necessity in stead of the bane that they in reality are, they are trying to cover one gap with an even bigger one.
Also, someone said that these loans are sometimes a means to prevent losing your house. I find it hard to believe that this is the case (barring very specific circumstances). I expect that not even banks in the USA will foreclose on houses with one missed payment which means there is a larger source of problems before this payday loan becomes a solution which comes back to covering one hole with a bigger one.
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Re these payday loans, I sort of remember a 99pi eposode that claimed that just the layout and pricing transparancy made them more attractive to the typical customer. This should be the link to the podcast:
https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/episode-18-check-cashing-stores-download-embed/
But ... I'm not american, so I don't really know.
Here in Sweden, the most comparable thing are "SMS loans", extremely expensive small loans taken by a phone app (and previously by just texting your personal number (social security number equivalent) and bank account no) and then got the money in minutes. No interest rate, but a steep "fixed fee". Everyone has a phone and a bank account here, and checks disappeared back in the 90:ies.
And "everyone" does not include the paperless immigrants. :( We are starting to get unbanked people here too.
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What seems predatory about lending is that we have this reality in which people in society are sorted and offered credit on such wildly different terms. The privileged--who've built up their credit--are offered low cost/low risk credit, and this happens in the same market as these remarkably high APR loans.
We can have the debate about the factors that sort someone into one or the other group; I'd argue that at least some of those are beyond the control of the borrower. So the lenders price these loans for their higher risk, and to an outside observer, it appears that they're offering a product at a much higher price than what is available in other places, and selling that product to someone who is desperate for reasons he/she cannot control. It's rare to encounter such a dramatic multiple as the 391% interest rate for a check-cashing loan compared to the 3% interest rate I'm paying to transfer a credit card balance in another market.
I have a friend from graduate school (he and I both have Ph.D.'s in economics) who's made his career out of studying these types of businesses. His research has systematically pealed back layers of the onion and made these types of transactions seem more reasonable for buyers. You can read more about his work here: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Marc_Fusaro (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Marc_Fusaro)
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I reject the thought that one gets low credit rating because of priveledge.
DH moved to the USA in his 30's. White educated male. No job at first (married to me).
The only card he could get with his "0" credit score was a pre-paid deposit one, with an annual fee.
So, $200 down, plus an annual fee of $50 after 1 year (no fee at start) and he got a lower fee card.
After 2 years, he has a very good credit score, no problem.
It only took 2 years, and $50 (net) to make it happen, plus $200 up front money that was returned.
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The relationship between credit rating and privilege works like this. Privilege is a situation where your surroundings are set up to protect you and allow you to benefit from the results of your hard work, sometimes disproportionately. It involves you being given the benefit of the doubt when there's a misunderstanding, it involves receiving at least basic instruction in the system and some help when you need it, and it involves you being given chances to learn (and fail a bit) when the stakes are low.
For an example of a person who isn't privileged, consider a child from a poor family whose family decides to put the utility bill in her name "because she's got clean credit". They skip out on the bill, leaving it unpaid. In an underclass family, children are often exploited financially this way. They also face enormous pressure to "share" their student loans with their family, providing at least partial support for the sister who's having another baby, the brother who needs bail money, the father who wants to go to the casino, and Mom who "needs" more Oxy. If the young adult says "no", his or her belongings are generally taken, stolen, or otherwise sabotaged so that the enabling can continue.
Living in a poor neighborhood, until recently, would get you "redlined" or refused a loan. This limited your opportunity to build up credit. These days, you need some kind of regular address to get a loan or a credit card. If you're couch surfing, your driver's license, vehicle registration, and such may be at different addresses. That doesn't look good to a lender. Neither does a "lapse" on your car insurance from the time when you decided to just park it for a few months.
Being from a middle-class background or higher allows people to learn at least a little bit about banking, credit, and how the system works. That makes it easier to avoid NSF fees due to bank card transactions, and it makes it easier to avoid writing a bad check. Keeping a bank account balanced is a skill that not everyone gets to practice at an early age, graduating from savings to checking to whatever. Note also that a parent's ability to open and maintain a bank account will affect the child's ability to do so. If Mom or Dad isn't welcome at the bank, a minor does not have the legal right to open his or her own account.
Then of course there are the preferential offers that avalanche onto people their first year at university: a person who's working and not going to school just doesn't get them, so they don't receive the opportunity to get a store card or a credit card, charge a little, and pay it off every month. The products sold to poorer people tend to be the (more profitable to the bank) prepaid variety that does absolutely nothing to build credit.
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@Goldielocks and @TheGrimSqueaker are both correct.
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It only took 2 years, and $50 (net) to make it happen, plus $200 up front money that was returned.
It also took not getting hit with huge medical bills, not having your car brake down when you will lose your job without it, and not getting arrested because someone didn’t like your face. Unless there’s a specific skill in avoiding these things, I’d say it’s not that simple.
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It only took 2 years, and $50 (net) to make it happen, plus $200 up front money that was returned.
It also took not getting hit with huge medical bills, not having your car brake down when you will lose your job without it, and not getting arrested because someone didn’t like your face. Unless there’s a specific skill in avoiding these things, I’d say it’s not that simple.
I did not say it was simple... my point is that DH and another friend I know, have all the "privilege" that society grants educated (or high school graduated) middle class white males, and yet credit for both of them was not an automatic, they had a bit of trouble getting it started at first. (DH being new to the country and my friend because he did not go to university and trying to get credit with a low paid job is quite hard)
My point, even after reading Grim's post, is that credit does not hinge on privledge now-a-days. Yes there is a whirlwind of other dis-opportunity that society presents people, I don't recognize the direct link between credit and privledge. (indirect at best)
Only the "getting arrested because someone didn't like your face" is the item that did not apply to them (unless you count being detained for several hours by border patrol because they did not like the way they were dressed and the age of their car counts).
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It only took 2 years, and $50 (net) to make it happen, plus $200 up front money that was returned.
It also took not getting hit with huge medical bills, not having your car brake down when you will lose your job without it, and not getting arrested because someone didn’t like your face. Unless there’s a specific skill in avoiding these things, I’d say it’s not that simple.
I did not say it was simple... my point is that DH and another friend I know, have all the "privilege" that society grants educated (or high school graduated) middle class white males, and yet credit for both of them was not an automatic, they had a bit of trouble getting it started at first. (DH being new to the country and my friend because he did not go to university and trying to get credit with a low paid job is quite hard)
My point, even after reading Grim's post, is that credit does not hinge on privledge now-a-days. Yes there is a whirlwind of other dis-opportunity that society presents people, I don't recognize the direct link between credit and privledge. (indirect at best)
Only the "getting arrested because someone didn't like your face" is the item that did not apply to them (unless you count being detained for several hours by border patrol because they did not like the way they were dressed and the age of their car counts).
How exactly are you defining privilege? We may have a definition misalignment because I see four privilege factors already in your description of your DH:
- middle class background
- white (in a region where white is the norm; being the only white kid bused to a non-white school is *not* a privilege)
- male
- completed high school (as in, wasn't forced to drop out to support parents or siblings or to perform caregiving for a sick relative)
The first three things-- background, appearance, and gender-- aren't things people really pick for themselves. The last factor is one in which a student's choices and preferences do affect the outcome, however you may not be aware of the extent to which it's possible to be overcome by external events at an early age. Your DH's situation may seem like the norm, but let's look at the combined probability of having each attribute.
Here's a link to a Pew research study about upper, middle, lower-middle, upper-middle, lower, and upper class in America. http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/12/09/the-american-middle-class-is-losing-ground/ (http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/12/09/the-american-middle-class-is-losing-ground/) According to the Pew paper, only about 50% of America is middle-class, but the un-privileged classes (lower and lower-middle) make up about 29% based on income. That means about 71% are middle-class or higher and the probability of being in your DH's "class" set would be about 0.71. The US census information from census.gov describes about 49.2% of Americans as male and 76.9% of all Americans as meeting the government definition of "white" (and that definition is an entirely different can of worms, as any child of Irish, Italian, or Slavic immigrants can attest). I found a 2016 Washington Post article saying that 83.2 percent of US kids graduate from high school, although the same article notes that kids from poorer families are still doing very badly-- I'll get to probability distribution later).
0.71 x 0.492 x 0.769 x 0.832 = 0.223 which means that if privilege factors did not correlate and were distributed uniformly (they're not), only about 22.3% of Americans would have the same privilege factors as your DH, or better.
Now, those numbers assume privilege is binary, but wealth isn't. For example, a female trust fund baby doesn't have the privilege associated with being male, and a star NBA athlete of recent African descent doesn't have the privilege associated with being white, but both of them probably are more privileged than your DH due to being wealthy. We can think of the end result of all the various factors-- a person's total privilege level, as it were-- as something that has a spectrum. Not being on the very high end of the privilege spectrum isn't the same as being at the low end. Yet on a day-to-day basis, there's just as much difference between the lifestyle of a person at the low end and a person at the middle as you'd see between a person at the middle and someone at the high end. The dollar difference between middle and high end is far bigger, but a lot of the things people on this board take for granted aren't available at the seriously low end.
Probably nobody came up to your DH and said: "Here's a free car/scholarship/movie ticket because you're <insert privilege factor here>". That's not how privilege works. It's seldom that overt.
I define privilege as a situation where the system you're in is set up to basically accommodate you: if you follow the rules, work hard, and do the "right" thing by deferring gratification or avoiding any egregious destructive behavior, you will generally experience success and get to keep a portion of the results of your labor. You may still experience bad treatment by individuals and incidents in which you're a victim of violence, or not given credit for your work, or not taken seriously when you report a problem, but those incidents will be isolated and not the norm. Such mistakes as you make will be less likely to produce long-term, life changing negative consequences, and opportunities to improve your situation will be available to you without requiring significant changes in your default behaviors.
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According to the Pew paper, only about 50% of America is middle-class, but the un-privileged classes (lower and lower-middle) make up about 29% based on income. That means about 71% are middle-class or higher and the probability of being in your DH's "class" set would be about 0.71. The US census information from census.gov describes about 49.2% of Americans as male and 76.9% of all Americans as meeting the government definition of "white" (and that definition is an entirely different can of worms, as any child of Irish, Italian, or Slavic immigrants can attest). I found a 2016 Washington Post article saying that 83.2 percent of US kids graduate from high school
0.71 x 0.492 x 0.769 x 0.832 = 0.223
Uh, there is a lot of reason for your "math" to be wrong, the easiest one that the graduation rate is already influenced by the other 3 ;)
But it gets way more complicated. Living in a cheap house near a big street? Noise when doing homework, bad sleep? Or iving in a villa with private tutor?
Parents divorced? (about one class back in school)
Statistically the number of books in the household is very important for college graduation. Of course the existance is not the deciding factor, it is more a correlation, but you see how seemingly simple things can add up to a mountain of (anti-)privilege.
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It only took 2 years, and $50 (net) to make it happen, plus $200 up front money that was returned.
It also took not getting hit with huge medical bills, not having your car brake down when you will lose your job without it, and not getting arrested because someone didn’t like your face. Unless there’s a specific skill in avoiding these things, I’d say it’s not that simple.
I did not say it was simple... my point is that DH and another friend I know, have all the "privilege" that society grants educated (or high school graduated) middle class white males, and yet credit for both of them was not an automatic, they had a bit of trouble getting it started at first. (DH being new to the country and my friend because he did not go to university and trying to get credit with a low paid job is quite hard)
My point, even after reading Grim's post, is that credit does not hinge on privledge now-a-days. Yes there is a whirlwind of other dis-opportunity that society presents people, I don't recognize the direct link between credit and privledge. (indirect at best)
Only the "getting arrested because someone didn't like your face" is the item that did not apply to them (unless you count being detained for several hours by border patrol because they did not like the way they were dressed and the age of their car counts).
How exactly are you defining privilege? We may have a definition misalignment because I see four privilege factors already in your description of your DH:
- middle class background
- white (in a region where white is the norm; being the only white kid bused to a non-white school is *not* a privilege)
- male
- completed high school (as in, wasn't forced to drop out to support parents or siblings or to perform caregiving for a sick relative)
The first three things-- background, appearance, and gender-- aren't things people really pick for themselves. The last factor is one in which a student's choices and preferences do affect the outcome, however you may not be aware of the extent to which it's possible to be overcome by external events at an early age. Your DH's situation may seem like the norm, but let's look at the combined probability of having each attribute.
Here's a link to a Pew research study about upper, middle, lower-middle, upper-middle, lower, and upper class in America. http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/12/09/the-american-middle-class-is-losing-ground/ (http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/12/09/the-american-middle-class-is-losing-ground/) According to the Pew paper, only about 50% of America is middle-class, but the un-privileged classes (lower and lower-middle) make up about 29% based on income. That means about 71% are middle-class or higher and the probability of being in your DH's "class" set would be about 0.71. The US census information from census.gov describes about 49.2% of Americans as male and 76.9% of all Americans as meeting the government definition of "white" (and that definition is an entirely different can of worms, as any child of Irish, Italian, or Slavic immigrants can attest). I found a 2016 Washington Post article saying that 83.2 percent of US kids graduate from high school, although the same article notes that kids from poorer families are still doing very badly-- I'll get to probability distribution later).
0.71 x 0.492 x 0.769 x 0.832 = 0.223 which means that if privilege factors did not correlate and were distributed uniformly (they're not), only about 22.3% of Americans would have the same privilege factors as your DH, or better.
Now, those numbers assume privilege is binary, but wealth isn't. For example, a female trust fund baby doesn't have the privilege associated with being male, and a star NBA athlete of recent African descent doesn't have the privilege associated with being white, but both of them probably are more privileged than your DH due to being wealthy. We can think of the end result of all the various factors-- a person's total privilege level, as it were-- as something that has a spectrum. Not being on the very high end of the privilege spectrum isn't the same as being at the low end. Yet on a day-to-day basis, there's just as much difference between the lifestyle of a person at the low end and a person at the middle as you'd see between a person at the middle and someone at the high end. The dollar difference between middle and high end is far bigger, but a lot of the things people on this board take for granted aren't available at the seriously low end.
Probably nobody came up to your DH and said: "Here's a free car/scholarship/movie ticket because you're <insert privilege factor here>". That's not how privilege works. It's seldom that overt.
I define privilege as a situation where the system you're in is set up to basically accommodate you: if you follow the rules, work hard, and do the "right" thing by deferring gratification or avoiding any egregious destructive behavior, you will generally experience success and get to keep a portion of the results of your labor. You may still experience bad treatment by individuals and incidents in which you're a victim of violence, or not given credit for your work, or not taken seriously when you report a problem, but those incidents will be isolated and not the norm. Such mistakes as you make will be less likely to produce long-term, life changing negative consequences, and opportunities to improve your situation will be available to you without requiring significant changes in your default behaviors.
Hey grim. I think it is a mis-communication.
My point is that even priveldged persons (excessively so), have the same hurdles for credit that others do. If you don't get credit for your country in college, then it is a hurdle.
e.g., Priveldge =/= easy access to credit... (and what the banks can deny you for no longer excludes people because of pure race or quasi (zip code exclusion) reasons).
all the other points in your argument are valid, but I find them too indirect to say that privledge = easier access to credit.
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I define privilege as a situation where the system you're in is set up to basically accommodate you: if you follow the rules, work hard, and do the "right" thing by deferring gratification or avoiding any egregious destructive behavior, you will generally experience success and get to keep a portion of the results of your labor.
Someone expressed it well earlier, I think, as: privilege means you're given the benefit of the doubt. For example if you're hiring someone, do you assume they're useless and they have to prove they're competent, or do you assume they're competent and they have to prove they're useless?
And the same person can have privilege in one situation but not another. A woman is given the benefit of doubt in court while a man isn't, but the situation is reversed when they talk to the bank manager about extending credit.
That's why Caitlin Jenner was named "woman of the year" despite still having male genitals, the transgendered have not had the benefit of the doubt for so long that there's a reaction to be seen endorsing them even when other aspects of their behaviour are less than shiny - Jenner recklessly killing someone while driving, etc. But Jenner's getting away with killing someone will also have to do with her wealth, since an expensive lawyer will bring more resources of eloquence, precedent, various legal delays and so on than would a cheap lawyer.
And of course, transwoman Jenny who can't get a steady job because of being trans and thus prostituting herself on the streets of LA to fund her treatments wasn't named "woman of the year" by anyone.
So it can be complicated. But the people I feel for are those who are not privileged in any situation at all. And these are mostly outside our First World countries, though we have some, for example Aboriginals here in Australia.
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Hey grim. I think it is a mis-communication.
My point is that even priveldged persons (excessively so), have the same hurdles for credit that others do. If you don't get credit for your country in college, then it is a hurdle.
e.g., Priveldge =/= easy access to credit... (and what the banks can deny you for no longer excludes people because of pure race or quasi (zip code exclusion) reasons).
all the other points in your argument are valid, but I find them too indirect to say that privledge = easier access to credit.
OK, here's something a little more direct: physical logistics, or the ability to be at the right place at the right time to obtain an *opportunity* to get credit.
You have to get to the bank and interact with them long enough to get approved for credit, and you have to avoid the things that show up as negative information on a credit report.
When a credit card company sets up a booth on a college campus and hands out preapproved applications to every student with a pulse, then unless they also set up shop in the local barrio where the high school dropouts go, it *is* uneven access to credit. Them that's got, shall get (as the late Billie Holliday once sang).
When you have a family that owns a vehicle or are able to afford the rent to live near a regular public transit line, you stand a chance of getting to a bank during business hours. If you live out in the sticks and have to beg a ride every time you go somewhere, or you can't afford the gas, you can't apply in person. Online might be an option, if you have access to a working computer or Smart phone and an Internet connection. There are still a lot of places in this country where wireless or landline access simply doesn't exist because it wasn't profitable enough for a corporation to consider it worthwhile to link you up. You'd better be able to afford a satellite phone. If you're lucky enough to have been born in a place where there's a functional cellular signal or access to a landline, then to have Net access in your house requires a family member who pays the bills, and to have a functional Smart phone in the first place means you either have the kind of job where you can afford it, or you're on someone's family plan. If even one of these things line up for you, it's physically possible to apply for credit online. Everyone else is out of luck.
When you're born in this country and develop 10 years' worth of good credit history, you have the benefit of 10 years of good decision making. If you grow up somewhere else and develop 10 years' worth of good credit history, then return (or immigrate legally), you don't get the benefit of those 10 years of good decision making, because the banks go: "La-la-la-la-la... it didn't happen here so as far as we're concerned it didn't happen at all... but if you did something BAD, now we know all about that... la-la-la-la-la... get in line behind the felon con artist and the identity thief because you've got to start all over again at zero." (I know this because it happened to me.)
Then of course there's the literacy angle. If you're born into a family where there's a lot of learning disability, there's a good chance you, your parents, your siblings, and a lot of the people around you simply can't read well enough to understand and fill out a credit application. A privileged person, frankly, seldom has to deal with the consequences of a learning disability because he or she is streamed into Special Ed or has parents willing and able to help with homework or to pay for private tutors. Same goes for medical expenses, a motor vehicle accident (recall that privileged people can afford insurance premiums) or significant physical disability. Privileged people have a safety net that actually works. Other people do not.
If these points still don't meet your standards, what do I have to do to show you that not having a safety net has an effect on a person's credit rating? It seems pretty obvious to me that mistakes or unexpected glitches are a fact of life, and that only an extremely lucky person can skate through with no safety net and expect the same results as a person who's got one.
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It's like we are looking at the same facts and coming to different conclusions... :-0
Physical Logistics -- most banks prefer the online or telephone applications for credit, some require an in-person signature in order to pick up the card. I think we all agreed previously that one of the two items that people with limited means have is a cellphone (and cable).
Location - the large majority of people with a privilege disadvantage live in urban areas. Rural areas and you need a car to get around, so if you have no money for a car, most people end up living in the city/town out of necessity. For example, my cousin needs to drive for 10 minutes to get into cell service range, and he is quite poor (bad choices, lives in a home requiring repairs with a generator for electricity and no telephone, doesn't eat for lack of food sometimes) but he owns a car and a cell phone and drives himself to the local corner where there is cell service.
Agreed that if you don't get credit at college then it is hard.. I just say that it is hard for everyone. There are people who went through college with only debit cards that now have equal trouble getting credit.
People living in "middle class" have parents with problems, too. Parents that abuse credit in their kids' names, don't tell them anything about financial savviness.
The people I know with disabilities seem to have a LOT of credit cards.
My point of view--
It is hard for anyone who is not currently in college, including those with privilege, to get the first credit card. After the first card, credit is easy for everyone (who make minimum payments), not just those with privilege after that.
With 2 years, and access to $200, anyone can get credit.
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Last week at work, two of my coworkers reveiled that they usually cut their own hair! These aren't people I consider everyday mustachians, so I was very impressed/surprised!
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It's like we are looking at the same facts and coming to different conclusions... :-0
Physical Logistics -- most banks prefer the online or telephone applications for credit, some require an in-person signature in order to pick up the card. I think we all agreed previously that one of the two items that people with limited means have is a cellphone (and cable).
Location - the large majority of people with a privilege disadvantage live in urban areas. Rural areas and you need a car to get around, so if you have no money for a car, most people end up living in the city/town out of necessity. For example, my cousin needs to drive for 10 minutes to get into cell service range, and he is quite poor (bad choices, lives in a home requiring repairs with a generator for electricity and no telephone, doesn't eat for lack of food sometimes) but he owns a car and a cell phone and drives himself to the local corner where there is cell service.
Agreed that if you don't get credit at college then it is hard.. I just say that it is hard for everyone. There are people who went through college with only debit cards that now have equal trouble getting credit.
People living in "middle class" have parents with problems, too. Parents that abuse credit in their kids' names, don't tell them anything about financial savviness.
The people I know with disabilities seem to have a LOT of credit cards.
My point of view--
It is hard for anyone who is not currently in college, including those with privilege, to get the first credit card. After the first card, credit is easy for everyone (who make minimum payments), not just those with privilege after that.
With 2 years, and access to $200, anyone can get credit.
Getting credit is simple enough in that position. The key is maintaining a steady account balance of well more than $200, and then you apply to a no-fee credit card at the bank where you hold the cash. Typically, they'll approve you, ecause they can see you have enough money to cover the $200 limit. Then you're off, and you just pay your bill off constantly. At some point, ask for an increase. 500, 1000, 2000, 3000, 4500, 6000...and you're there. The key is remmbering to pay off the balance in full every month and choose a card with cash back rewards (unless you're a business or frequent traveler, then it might make sense to get a card with miles, etc.)
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This is a neighbor not a work person, but I complemented my neighbor's flagpole and he proudly told me how he made it himself out of hardware-store materials for $8 versus a $200 "flagpole kit." I was so happy for that extra $192 he could invest somewhere.
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A young, fresh out of college guy here in the office, looking for a new car because that is what folks do. I don't tell him specifically what a bad choice that is. I just mention a few things about how nice it is not having payments. I don't have the stress of wondering what I will do if the company closes or I get fired. I know that if life decides to throw me a curve ball, no one is going to come get my stuff. He doesn't argue, but has the contemplating look.
A few weeks later, I sit down with him and give him some unsolicited career advice. I tell him that no matter what career he chooses and specializes in, when he is in his mid 40's, chances are he will be done with that job. Been there, done that, sick of it. And wouldn't it be nice if he had no debt and probably even some money set aside that would allow him to go do another career or job that pays less, but is more satisfying. More confused looks as his brain tries to process this information that goes against all the propaganda that he has heard all of his life.
Today he stops by my office and tells me that he will not be getting a new car, and has started savings.
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A young, fresh out of college guy here in the office, looking for a new car because that is what folks do. I don't tell him specifically what a bad choice that is. I just mention a few things about how nice it is not having payments. I don't have the stress of wondering what I will do if the company closes or I get fired. I know that if life decides to throw me a curve ball, no one is going to come get my stuff. He doesn't argue, but has the contemplating look.
A few weeks later, I sit down with him and give him some unsolicited career advice. I tell him that no matter what career he chooses and specializes in, when he is in his mid 40's, chances are he will be done with that job. Been there, done that, sick of it. And wouldn't it be nice if he had no debt and probably even some money set aside that would allow him to go do another career or job that pays less, but is more satisfying. More confused looks as his brain tries to process this information that goes against all the propaganda that he has heard all of his life.
Today he stops by my office and tells me that he will not be getting a new car, and has started savings.
Very beautiful. Thank you for this.
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A young, fresh out of college guy here in the office, looking for a new car because that is what folks do. I don't tell him specifically what a bad choice that is. I just mention a few things about how nice it is not having payments. I don't have the stress of wondering what I will do if the company closes or I get fired. I know that if life decides to throw me a curve ball, no one is going to come get my stuff. He doesn't argue, but has the contemplating look.
A few weeks later, I sit down with him and give him some unsolicited career advice. I tell him that no matter what career he chooses and specializes in, when he is in his mid 40's, chances are he will be done with that job. Been there, done that, sick of it. And wouldn't it be nice if he had no debt and probably even some money set aside that would allow him to go do another career or job that pays less, but is more satisfying. More confused looks as his brain tries to process this information that goes against all the propaganda that he has heard all of his life.
Today he stops by my office and tells me that he will not be getting a new car, and has started savings.
Very beautiful. Thank you for this.
That's totally amazing! Well done on this one, that's how you convert people!
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A young, fresh out of college guy here in the office, looking for a new car because that is what folks do. I don't tell him specifically what a bad choice that is. I just mention a few things about how nice it is not having payments. I don't have the stress of wondering what I will do if the company closes or I get fired. I know that if life decides to throw me a curve ball, no one is going to come get my stuff. He doesn't argue, but has the contemplating look.
A few weeks later, I sit down with him and give him some unsolicited career advice. I tell him that no matter what career he chooses and specializes in, when he is in his mid 40's, chances are he will be done with that job. Been there, done that, sick of it. And wouldn't it be nice if he had no debt and probably even some money set aside that would allow him to go do another career or job that pays less, but is more satisfying. More confused looks as his brain tries to process this information that goes against all the propaganda that he has heard all of his life.
Today he stops by my office and tells me that he will not be getting a new car, and has started savings.
Very beautiful. Thank you for this.
That's totally amazing! Well done on this one, that's how you convert people!
Now just a few weeks and side remarks, and you can introduce him to the church of mustachianism :D
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Talking with a work subordinate about spouses, finances, life, everything. Turns out she and her husband buy, rehab, and flip homes as a side hustle, and are apparently doing a good job at it. Colleague is a hard worker and is always willing to take on more clients. We didn't talk about exact numbers, but she hinted that they are avid savers. For example, she commented that she doesn't understand how anyone could pay more than $30 for a pair of jeans. I didn't pry much, but based on the conversations we've had about money, she seems to be in a good spot.
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First posted in the other, overheard at work thread, but I was pointed here:
Overheard at work by DH. The cook working in the caferaria at work is a Greek. In Norway salaries are a LOT higher than in Greece. The cook was planning to move back to Greece next year. Someone asked him if he would be able to afford a nice house there. Turns out the cook already purchased a 14! bedroom house in Greece and is in the process of renting out rooms to tourists. Next year he is planning to retire from his job as a cook and going to live in the 14 bedroom house, while renting out the rooms in the summer. :-)
The cook is 40-50 years old.
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Not 100% Anti-Antimustacian but co-worker who is quite spendy in life but followed the max out our 401k today did see it hit 7 figures. I made sure the newest person in the office found out.
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I made sure the newest person in the office found out.
Very good. Proselytizing works much better when you can point to examples other than yourself.
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Talked to a young guy who just joined the company full-time. He's already saving a ton, and has very ambitious plans to build a real estate empire. Of course, he and his wife are about to have their first kid, so it'll be interesting to see how his perspective changes when he suddenly doesn't have as much time. :)
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Our company just implemented a new RRSP plan with a 50% match up to $2500 a year. The plan kicks in next month. It's based on calendar year. Several coworkers were calculating how much to contribute these 4 months to get that free 2500 before January.
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with that kind of math, it totally would make sense to borrow the $5,000 to get that 50% match.
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with that kind of math, it totally would make sense to borrow the $5,000 to get that 50% match.
The only catch is that to get the match, it has to come off the paycheque as an auto deduction. But sure, borrow 5000 to cover regular costs and then set up the contributions off the paycheque.
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RE: privilege/credit, my daughter was given a credit card in her name on our account when she went off to college. It's been 9 years now and she hasn't used it for years, but she did say one time, don't take me off that account, your long and good credit history makes my credit score look very good.
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Note: Daughter not using that particular credit card doesn't mean daughter isn't using other sources of credit.
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Note: Daughter not using that particular credit card doesn't mean daughter isn't using other sources of credit.
That's true enough, but she knows well enough that credit cards are paid in full every month.
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RE: privilege/credit, my daughter was given a credit card in her name on our account when she went off to college. It's been 9 years now and she hasn't used it for years, but she did say one time, don't take me off that account, your long and good credit history makes my credit score look very good.
I benefit from the same thing with AAA. My grandmother joined in 1962. I got all of the years on the family membership when I started driving in 1998. It's fun to show people a card that says I've been a member of something for more than half a century when I'm still in my thirties.
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RE: privilege/credit, my daughter was given a credit card in her name on our account when she went off to college. It's been 9 years now and she hasn't used it for years, but she did say one time, don't take me off that account, your long and good credit history makes my credit score look very good.
I benefit from the same thing with AAA. My grandmother joined in 1962. I got all of the years on the family membership when I started driving in 1998. It's fun to show people a card that says I've been a member of something for more than half a century when I'm still in my thirties.
Many apartments in Norway belong to housing cooperatives, and when they are sold the members have the right of first refusal. In popular areas of Oslo, all new building projects, and a lot of the secondhand sales are snatched up on ROFR. The oldest memberships are prioritized, and you can inherit from relatives. In some cases, you’ll need memberships from the 60s or 70s to compete. We don’t have very old memberships to these cooperatives in the family, but bought some for kids when they were born. The cooperatives are widespread; My kids got into a good kindergarten because my mother found some old memberships laying around from when my brother was little.
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Frugal co-worker when I told her I am working 80% from now: It is a really good idea to take time off now instead of waiting until you are 67. More people should do that. Is your husband also going to take Fridays off?
Me: Yes, soon. After his operation.
Co-worker: It sounds like you are easing your way into (early) retirement. (She knows about my FIRE plan). You have been really good at saving.
Me: I just don't buy so much shit like other people do. It is a matter of prioritizing. You go on a family visit in the US every year, that is what you prioritize, instead of spending mindlessly on other stuff.
Co-worker: At least I always save first, like when I want to go on a vacation of want to buy a car. I save first and buy cash. I'm not taking up loans for that.
Me: That is my way of living as well. One doesn't take up a loan for a car or a vacation. Lots of people think otherwise, strangely enough.
Refreshing to have other normal/frugal co-workers.
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Frugal co-worker when I told her I am working 80% from now: It is a really good idea to take time off now instead of waiting until you are 67. More people should do that. Is your husband also going to take Fridays off?
Me: Yes, soon. After his operation.
Co-worker: It sounds like you are easing your way into (early) retirement. (She knows about my FIRE plan). You have been really good at saving.
Me: I just don't buy so much shit like other people do. It is a matter of prioritizing. You go on a family visit in the US every year, that is what you prioritize, instead of spending mindlessly on other stuff.
Co-worker: At least I always save first, like when I want to go on a vacation of want to buy a car. I save first and buy cash. I'm not taking up loans for that.
Me: That is my way of living as well. One doesn't take up a loan for a car or a vacation. Lots of people think otherwise, strangely enough.
Refreshing to have other normal/frugal co-workers.
you two are going to miss each other.
I miss my ex-co-worker who is also new colleague. We left OldCo within months of each other to NewCo, but transitioned from working together at customer site to working from home. I'm back to customer site 60-80%, but he's not. We miss sitting and having lunch, discussing finance and economics and science and tech. It made the day bearable working for CluelessBoss and surrounded by CrazyCoWorkers.
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I'm pretty open with my goal to FIRE , eh, everywhere. And I'll chew numbers with other Contract workers if they seem like they're open.
Coworker went on an extended weekend. When he got back, I asked him what he'd been up to, if it'd been fun.
Apparently for almost a decade, he and some college friends have kept in touch. They started an LLC where they all put in money, and as a group, make Stock buying decisions (actively trying to time the market). Their current goal, as a group, is for each member to get to 100k and start flipping houses together as this LLC. The members live in three different states across the US.
I'd don't know if I'd do it, but it sounded pretty damn mustachian to me. :)
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Co-worker sold their Jeep Grand Cherokee and bought a '98 Honda Civic. They still commute 35 miles one way, but hey, at least it's in a small car with roughly twice the fuel efficiency.
Another is going to start driving an old Corolla that's been sitting in their driveway without tags for a couple years and give their F-150 a break. Their commute is about the same.
I don't know what drove their decisions, but I think they will be pleasantly surprised if they stick to it for a few years. Right now they're only factoring in the gas savings but of course there's more to it than that.
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One of my colleagues had to work night shift last weekend. When he was in the office, he noticed a whole bunch of leftover apples in our fruit bowl. He remembered my advice that someone should take them home and make an apple pie, so he did. :-)
I told another colleague that I had made jam of leftover kiwi's from the office. He was very interested in how I did it. So maybe he'll try it next time.
Nice that people start using up leftover food instead of throwing it away on Monday.
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I'm pretty open with my goal to FIRE , eh, everywhere. And I'll chew numbers with other Contract workers if they seem like they're open.
Coworker went on an extended weekend. When he got back, I asked him what he'd been up to, if it'd been fun.
Apparently for almost a decade, he and some college friends have kept in touch. They started an LLC where they all put in money, and as a group, make Stock buying decisions (actively trying to time the market). Their current goal, as a group, is for each member to get to 100k and start flipping houses together as this LLC. The members live in three different states across the US.
I'd don't know if I'd do it, but it sounded pretty damn mustachian to me. :)
I wonder how their LLC has performed over the last decade......
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Co-worker, who has been out of college 3 years, has saved up $30,000 and quit their job to travel the world until the money runs out. No one can believe he's saved up that much money. I on the other hand am on the longer term plan in hopes a little more work now will be a greater payoff later. Been working a little over 2 years now out of college and have $80,000 in my 401k and $10,000 in my HSA. Anyway, wasn't sure if this was the right place to put this but good for him for saving that much after tax.
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Yup, this is the right place. Kudos to both of you!
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...good for him for saving that much after tax.
That is good he did the savings, but the opportunity cost of not working for years after college and not investing the money for 30 years is quite costly.
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...good for him for saving that much after tax.
That is good he did the savings, but the opportunity cost of not working for years after college and not investing the money for 30 years is quite costly.
I agree. I could quit right now and travel for 5-10 years or I could work 5-10 years and then quit forever. Long game.
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Summary: "Co-worker began LLC with several friends from college over last decade to buy stocks and flip houses"
I'd don't know if I'd do it, but it sounded pretty damn mustachian to me. :)
I wonder how their LLC has performed over the last decade......
I would think well enough or they wouldn't keep doing it, nor be the sort of people who would save 100k each as an achievable goal. I didn't super inquire into their exact profits to prove my assumption though :)
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Co-worker, who has been out of college 3 years, has saved up $30,000 and quit their job to travel the world until the money runs out. No one can believe he's saved up that much money. I on the other hand am on the longer term plan in hopes a little more work now will be a greater payoff later. Been working a little over 2 years now out of college and have $80,000 in my 401k and $10,000 in my HSA. Anyway, wasn't sure if this was the right place to put this but good for him for saving that much after tax.
There is something to say about both strategies.
When you are young, without children, not bound by a house or mortgage, not used to living in expensive hotels, not having done everything before in young life, and still in good physical shape, you can travel more easily around the world than later when all these things are in place. I think @spartana is such a person who has had multiple sabbaticals before retiring early.
Having to work to 65/67 until you receive your official pension is not tempting for us Mustachians, so we'd rather save up now.
On the other hand, your colleague has shown to be decent at saving. If he starts over doing that again when back from the trip, he might still be able to retire some years earlier than the majority.
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I'm also with your co-worker on this one, but I think it does depend on your life goals and long-term outlook. Let's say I'm at a hard to get, super high paying job and had <5 years of career to go to FIRE I'd totally wait till full FIRE levels before quitting and traveling the world. However, at my current numbers it'll take closer to 15-20 years not taking into account any partnering up or children.
Also realize that not everyone who travels finishes all their money. Actually, most people I met worked on their way once they got bored of trekking around only (this point seems to be around the 6 month mark from my anecdata). When I left after uni I had $17k to start with and 11 months later I came back with $13.5k and countless experiences. Totally worth $3.5k and some missed gains in the market to me I can tell you :).
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I'm also with your co-worker on this one, but I think it does depend on your life goals and long-term outlook. Let's say I'm at a hard to get, super high paying job and had <5 years of career to go to FIRE I'd totally wait till full FIRE levels before quitting and traveling the world. However, at my current numbers it'll take closer to 15-20 years not taking into account any partnering up or children.
Also realize that not everyone who travels finishes all their money. Actually, most people I met worked on their way once they got bored of trekking around only (this point seems to be around the 6 month mark from my anecdata). When I left after uni I had $17k to start with and 11 months later I came back with $13.5k and countless experiences. Totally worth $3.5k and some missed gains in the market to me I can tell you :).
Add me to the list. Don't regret my long term travels when I was a young adult one single iota.
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I'm also with your co-worker on this one, but I think it does depend on your life goals and long-term outlook. Let's say I'm at a hard to get, super high paying job and had <5 years of career to go to FIRE I'd totally wait till full FIRE levels before quitting and traveling the world. However, at my current numbers it'll take closer to 15-20 years not taking into account any partnering up or children.
Also realize that not everyone who travels finishes all their money. Actually, most people I met worked on their way once they got bored of trekking around only (this point seems to be around the 6 month mark from my anecdata). When I left after uni I had $17k to start with and 11 months later I came back with $13.5k and countless experiences. Totally worth $3.5k and some missed gains in the market to me I can tell you :).
My nephew recently completed a 2+ year solo walkabout around the world. He was 18 and fresh out of school. During this trip he supported himself by working and cutting his expenses to the bone. He finished the trip with more money than he started with. But more importantly, he found his passion and made good contacts along the way. He is now at UNI in Germany studying green architecture but is also busy in Bali managing the construction of an Eco-lodge for one of his contacts. He was also invited to Dubai to participate in a green building construction competition.
He spent a week with us on his way home from his adventure. We were very impressed with his maturity, personality and drive. This boy will go far.
Travel broadens your mind but it can also focus it.
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I'm also with your co-worker on this one, but I think it does depend on your life goals and long-term outlook. Let's say I'm at a hard to get, super high paying job and had <5 years of career to go to FIRE I'd totally wait till full FIRE levels before quitting and traveling the world. However, at my current numbers it'll take closer to 15-20 years not taking into account any partnering up or children.
Also realize that not everyone who travels finishes all their money. Actually, most people I met worked on their way once they got bored of trekking around only (this point seems to be around the 6 month mark from my anecdata). When I left after uni I had $17k to start with and 11 months later I came back with $13.5k and countless experiences. Totally worth $3.5k and some missed gains in the market to me I can tell you :).
When I graduated from college, I had a goal to save up $10,000 and go travel for 6 to 12 months. Once I hit the $10k, I decided to wait until I paid off my student loans. Then I decided I’d do it at $50k. Then $100k. Etc.
Now I am married and we have three kids and have more than enough money to travel for a year or two or five. But traveling for an extended period with kids is a whole different ballgame. We are able to travel a lot, but vacation travel for weeks is different from a walkabout for months or a year.
Traveling when you’re young, tough, cheap, and single is a great idea, even with the opportunity cost.
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I'm also with your co-worker on this one, but I think it does depend on your life goals and long-term outlook. Let's say I'm at a hard to get, super high paying job and had <5 years of career to go to FIRE I'd totally wait till full FIRE levels before quitting and traveling the world. However, at my current numbers it'll take closer to 15-20 years not taking into account any partnering up or children.
Also realize that not everyone who travels finishes all their money. Actually, most people I met worked on their way once they got bored of trekking around only (this point seems to be around the 6 month mark from my anecdata). When I left after uni I had $17k to start with and 11 months later I came back with $13.5k and countless experiences. Totally worth $3.5k and some missed gains in the market to me I can tell you :).
When I graduated from college, I had a goal to save up $10,000 and go travel for 6 to 12 months. Once I hit the $10k, I decided to wait until I paid off my student loans. Then I decided I’d do it at $50k. Then $100k. Etc.
Now I am married and we have three kids and have more than enough money to travel for a year or two or five. But traveling for an extended period with kids is a whole different ballgame. We are able to travel a lot, but vacation travel for weeks is different from a walkabout for months or a year.
Traveling when you’re young, tough, cheap, and single is a great idea, even with the opportunity cost.
This family is traveling the world on a catamaran. Seems like fun! https://youtu.be/3ulzyVK-kyE
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One of my colleagues is approaching normal pension age. He is now changing job internally for his last 2 years, because he gets a higher salary, which will give him 600$ extra in pension monthly. In his current job he would have had to work another 5 years for the same amount. Good for him.
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I just met with a new colleague and his wife. They seem very Mustachian people. All their furniture is bought second hand.
She has a permanent disability income. They are now moving to a new country where he can get a job in his specialty.
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My DH's coworker had rented put his apartment for 3 days to a film crew making a commercial. He eraned 2000 dollars with that. It turned out they made quite a mess of the apartment. After complaining, he receive another 2000 dollars to ease the pain. That was an easy way of eraning 4000 dollars in 3 days, plus some tidying and cleaning.
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Recently we had 2 days of team building with work. At the end, my department got a DVD with a movie. I took it home to watch. It turned out to be a philosophical movie about some people who prioritize being alive above being a consumer and getting highly paid. It fitted nicely into the philosophy of this website.
The movie is called Loop. It is spoken in Norwegian, but there were English subtltles available.
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Recently we had 2 days of team building with work. At the end, my department got a DVD with a movie. I took it home to watch. It turned out to be a philosophical movie about some people who prioritize being alive above being a consumer and getting highly paid. It fitted nicely into the philosophy of this website.
The movie is called Loop. It is spoken in Norwegian, but there were English subtltles available.
I think this is both great, and very surprising! Do you know why they chose to give that particular movie as part of a team building exercise? I would have expected something much more focused on drinking the corporate kool-aid, considering where you got it from.
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Recently we had 2 days of team building with work. At the end, my department got a DVD with a movie. I took it home to watch. It turned out to be a philosophical movie about some people who prioritize being alive above being a consumer and getting highly paid. It fitted nicely into the philosophy of this website.
The movie is called Loop. It is spoken in Norwegian, but there were English subtltles available.
I think this is both great, and very surprising! Do you know why they chose to give that particular movie as part of a team building exercise? I would have expected something much more focused on drinking the corporate kool-aid, considering where you got it from.
One of the teambuilding instructors had contributed to this movie. Edit: he was one of the protagonists.
The movie had nothing to do with the team building exercises. That was all about being 4 personality types and solving challenges as a group.
I think the movie wasn't necessarily about early retirement. But it was about becoming happier when you stop chasing being a consumer and focus on being yourself.
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Have had several conversations recently with some co-workers regarding importance of savings and personal investment outside of 401k contributions. A few really encourage younger employees to start saving NOW to take advantage of compounding interest. There was a good discussion regarding HSAs the other day too, on making them a second retirement savings account. Name dropped MMM a few times and at least one person has read a few articles.
Granted, the 2 co-workers I've had the most in-depth and coherent conversations have been from the Finance department...Somehow refreshing considering previous Finance employees I've worked with that are total spendy-pants.
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I got 'outed' as a Mustachian a couple of years ago when I replied to a MMM tweet and a coworker saw my real-life name in MMM's feed. Since then, we've been plotting our respective FIRE paths under the radar, although I've since officially resigned and my retirement plans are now public knowledge. Last month, he updated his case study on a well known Canadian FIRE blog - in two years, he's gone from hopeless to kicking @SS! I'm so proud of him!
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"A manager, an HR person, and four engineers walk into a conference room." It sounds like a setup for a Dad joke. But that's what happened today. My workplace is going through some changes, and we need to re-enroll in a new 401k plan. The HR person was here to present the options to the five full time employees.
The awesome part: There are several Vanguard options now.
Another awesome part: Everyone there has already been participating in the 401k plan
Another awesome part: All the employees are fans of index funds, and probably understand 401k's just as well as the HR person.
Another awesome part: At least one person asked about the contribution limits.
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My employer matches $0.50 on the dollar for the first 6% of employee contributions to our 401k plan. Across the whole company, not everyone contributes, so the average company contribution is about 2.5%. Therefore, all department labor budgets are set up with a 2.5% match.
My department can all do math and therefore we all contribute at least 6% to get the full 3% match. Result? our department is always over budget on retirement.
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My colleagues were discussing at which of the two grocery stores we tend to shop. Most people shopped at the cheaper chain, which according to one of my co-workers was 10% cheaper than the more expensive chain.
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My colleagues were discussing at which of the two grocery stores we tend to shop. Most people shopped at the cheaper chain, which according to one of my co-workers was 10% cheaper than the more expensive chain.
3 of my colleagues and I have an email thread going - basically, when the sales flyers come out, we will share things like 'ham is on sale at 99c/lb here, and here's a recipe, and then leftovers can combine in this soup with the following on-sale vegetables...'
So, yeah. Commit. :)
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Maybe my colleagues have noticed that I am a cheap person. At least my group leader showed me her new sweater and voluntarily told me it only cost 30$ and was a good bargain. She bought 2 in the same colour. It was indeed a very nice sweater and worth that price.
I saw another co-worker's phone and asked him what type it was. He said it was a Moto phone, typically a cheap brand with good phones. He paid 300$ for it, which in Norway is cheap for a phone. I told him I had also just purchased a new phone for that price. We both agreed on that it was madness to spend 800$ on a phone like some other people do.
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A co-worker asked me for advice on a used EV. His budget allowed for a 2012 Nissan leaf, but was considering saving up for a couple more months to get the 30kWh version. If he went for the imported no-fuss version, it wouldn't be much more expensive than the 24 kWh one. Nice to hear someone only focusing on needs, and refusing to pay extra for comfort.
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I was chatting with a fairly new coworker who asked me if I got more money in my last check, I hadn’t. Seems she had maxed her 401K and hadn’t realized it and got a boost in her account as a result. She is the first coworker who has mentioned retirement to me in a context other than, “I know I should contribute but I have bills.”
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The professional guild at my work sent out an email telling people how much to deduct from each paycheck in 2019 if they want to hit the max on the TSP :)
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A co-worker asked me for advice on a used EV. His budget allowed for a 2012 Nissan leaf, but was considering saving up for a couple more months to get the 30kWh version. If he went for the imported no-fuss version, it wouldn't be much more expensive than the 24 kWh one. Nice to hear someone only focusing on needs, and refusing to pay extra for comfort.
Also nice to hear that someone wants to save up first, instead of buying now and pay later.
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Our work recently switched to a new retirement plan, and we were discussing the options over lunch. One of my coworkers, who I'm sure earns less than I do, mentioned that last year he over contributed to his 401k and wasn't in a hurry to enroll in the new retirement plan, because he'd already maxed out his contribution this year. He drives an old Civic, rents a very modest place, has a roommate, and keeps his expenses down.
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In mid-2018, my employer, 70-person company, less than 5 years in operation, sent out an employee survey. Fortunately, more than 50% of the responses were about getting cheaper 401k options, ditching American Funds, etc. HR asked for benefits committee volunteers, I joined to represent my location (we're spread over 3 regions). We don't have management positions in the company, only engineers and a few HR/admin staff.
I did a lot research and came up with options, wrote a report with substantial data (thanks to bogleheads and portfolio visualizer). Turned it in and gave our HR director a brief summary.
Last month, our new veep talked to the committee and received a briefing, then said the company leadership was going to look into 401k alternatives for 2019.
Today, veep sent out and email stating:
In January, we will evaluate 401(K) platforms in order to put a more attractive program in place. We will specifically include the programs recommended by the benefits committee in our assessment.
I'm stoked. They asked me if I wanted to be involved in the assessment and selection process. Naturally I said yes. I'm glad I have an awesome employer that asks for employee feedback and then uses the data to improve things for all.
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The professional guild at my work sent out an email telling people how much to deduct from each paycheck in 2019 if they want to hit the max on the TSP :)
Not a guild, Human Resources does this at my agency.
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The professional guild at my work sent out an email telling people how much to deduct from each paycheck in 2019 if they want to hit the max on the TSP :)
Is your profession mathematically challenged? This is simple division
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The professional guild at my work sent out an email telling people how much to deduct from each paycheck in 2019 if they want to hit the max on the TSP :)
Is your profession mathematically challenged? This is simple division
Only if you know the deduction amount. And who knows THAT???
btw. doesn't that change every year? So it makes sense to tell it everyone instead of everyone looking it up? Or is it some fixed thing that gets eaten by inflation?
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The professional guild at my work sent out an email telling people how much to deduct from each paycheck in 2019 if they want to hit the max on the TSP :)
Is your profession mathematically challenged? This is simple division
Only if you know the deduction amount. And who knows THAT???
btw. doesn't that change every year? So it makes sense to tell it everyone instead of everyone looking it up? Or is it some fixed thing that gets eaten by inflation?
It's supposed to be indexed to inflation, but I believe they do it in $500 increments so it doesn't go up every year. At least that's how I think 401k works and they usually have the same limits
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The professional guild at my work sent out an email telling people how much to deduct from each paycheck in 2019 if they want to hit the max on the TSP :)
Is your profession mathematically challenged? This is simple division
Only if you know the deduction amount. And who knows THAT???
btw. doesn't that change every year? So it makes sense to tell it everyone instead of everyone looking it up? Or is it some fixed thing that gets eaten by inflation?
It's supposed to be indexed to inflation, but I believe they do it in $500 increments so it doesn't go up every year. At least that's how I think 401k works and they usually have the same limits
Inflation has been quite low for a long while, so we've had a couple 2-3 year runs without increases lately. $500 is less than 3% of $19K, so you'd think it will be less and less likely to stay flat from year-to-year.
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The professional guild at my work sent out an email telling people how much to deduct from each paycheck in 2019 if they want to hit the max on the TSP :)
Is your profession mathematically challenged? This is simple division
Haha! It's not actually that simple, believe it or not. There are three different pay processors in the Fed government, and depending on who processes your paycheck, there could be 26 or 27 pay periods. And determining whether the final pay period is in the current tax year or the following requires determining the EFT date for your check (as opposed to the official pay date). For NFC processing, 2018 was a 27-pay period year, because the EFT date for P27 is Monday, December 31 (even though the official pay date is Thursday, Jan 3). This shit causes confusion every damn year!!!
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The professional guild at my work sent out an email telling people how much to deduct from each paycheck in 2019 if they want to hit the max on the TSP :)
Glad I decided to read this thread today. I completely forgot that I'd need to change my contribution amount this year. Usually they send an email out, but maybe it's just not late enough in the year yet.
I'm curious what day they said to do it by? I went in to change it just now, but it says the effective date would be 12/23. Which would be one pay period too early.
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Coworker who as previously been a big spender asked if I'd walk her through investing. We sat down for 2 hours last week. Talked about basics of taxes, fees, investments. She is currently setting up a 403B and filling it with low cost index funds next year. I'm very happy for her.
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The professional guild at my work sent out an email telling people how much to deduct from each paycheck in 2019 if they want to hit the max on the TSP :)
Glad I decided to read this thread today. I completely forgot that I'd need to change my contribution amount this year. Usually they send an email out, but maybe it's just not late enough in the year yet.
I'm curious what day they said to do it by? I went in to change it just now, but it says the effective date would be 12/23. Which would be one pay period too early.
If you’re in the same pay system as me (I think NFC?) 12/23 is the correct effective date. 12/23 to 1/5 is the first pay period for 2019.
I learned from HR this year that you can request a change to TSP up to 90 days before the effective date on employee express. End of November, they told us 12/23 was the effective date we should enter to up contributions for 2019 (and employee express listed that date too). Also 2019 is 26 pay periods instead of 27.
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The professional guild at my work sent out an email telling people how much to deduct from each paycheck in 2019 if they want to hit the max on the TSP :)
Is your profession mathematically challenged? This is simple division
Only if you know the deduction amount. And who knows THAT???
btw. doesn't that change every year? So it makes sense to tell it everyone instead of everyone looking it up? Or is it some fixed thing that gets eaten by inflation?
Mainly it tells me what pay period starts the new year. It is never pay period #1, also it will tell me if randomly this is the year we get 27 pay checks.
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We normally get paid on the last working day of the month.
In December for some reason we'll get paid this friday (21st). This leads to lots of 'Oh woe is me, nearly 6 weeks on one paycheck is so hard, wah wah wah *complainypants*.
However overheard
CW1: "I don't really see why it's a problem, I always put it away and don't touch it till after the new year."
CW2: "But you always say you're skint in January"
CW1: "See that's the beauty, you have a ready made excuse to not socialise. So you might as well take full advantage *wink*"
newfound respect for CW1 who I had down as quite a big spender.
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I love my new company! They are all so financially savvy. HR pushes HSAs as a great investment vehicle. They just implemented a new feature to auto-enroll people in after-tax 401k contributions if you are already maxing out the tax-advantaged space. Our 401k plan has auto Roth conversion for the after-tax money. The plan is with Vanguard with awesome fees.
Contrast to my old company where they just this year implemented after-tax Roth conversion as an option. You could only convert once a year, you had to pay a fee to do it, and you had to FAX a dead-tree form in to request the conversion, which took place a week+ later. What bullshit.
The default investment option there was a target date fund (fine) with fees around 0.7+% (not fine). I fought hard to advocate for lower fees but got bullshit responses in return until I gave up.
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I love my new company! They are all so financially savvy. HR pushes HSAs as a great investment vehicle. They just implemented a new feature to auto-enroll people in after-tax 401k contributions if you are already maxing out the tax-advantaged space. Our 401k plan has auto Roth conversion for the after-tax money. The plan is with Vanguard with awesome fees.
Contrast to my old company where they just this year implemented after-tax Roth conversion as an option. You could only convert once a year, you had to pay a fee to do it, and you had to FAX a dead-tree form in to request the conversion, which took place a week+ later. What bullshit.
The default investment option there was a target date fund (fine) with fees around 0.7+% (not fine). I fought hard to advocate for lower fees but got bullshit responses in return until I gave up.left for a better company.
FTFY. Doesn't sound like you gave up anything in the end. Hooray!
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I love my new company! They are all so financially savvy. HR pushes HSAs as a great investment vehicle. They just implemented a new feature to auto-enroll people in after-tax 401k contributions if you are already maxing out the tax-advantaged space. Our 401k plan has auto Roth conversion for the after-tax money. The plan is with Vanguard with awesome fees.
Contrast to my old company where they just this year implemented after-tax Roth conversion as an option. You could only convert once a year, you had to pay a fee to do it, and you had to FAX a dead-tree form in to request the conversion, which took place a week+ later. What bullshit.
The default investment option there was a target date fund (fine) with fees around 0.7+% (not fine). I fought hard to advocate for lower fees but got bullshit responses in return until I gave up.left for a better company.
FTFY. Doesn't sound like you gave up anything in the end. Hooray!
:)
You are right about it being a better company. It was a bit of a challenge mentally to decide that is what I was really going to do though. I had 14 years in the first company and had been selected for various special-people career development programs and all of that. I don’t think it unreasonable to say i could have become a VP there eventually had I stayed. So in my mind this move was deliberately choosing to turn my back on the career advancement path and choose to prioritize my personal life in the long run. I feel like being steeped in MMM for so many years put my head in the right space to make that move. Sure, I’m earning more at a better company now, but I am a nobody in a sea of super smart, talented people whereas before I was connected and influential (somewhat). I’m totally okay with that because my goal is no longer career achievement but FI, baby!
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The professional guild at my work sent out an email telling people how much to deduct from each paycheck in 2019 if they want to hit the max on the TSP :)
Is your profession mathematically challenged? This is simple division
Haha! It's not actually that simple, believe it or not. There are three different pay processors in the Fed government, and depending on who processes your paycheck, there could be 26 or 27 pay periods. And determining whether the final pay period is in the current tax year or the following requires determining the EFT date for your check (as opposed to the official pay date). For NFC processing, 2018 was a 27-pay period year, because the EFT date for P27 is Monday, December 31 (even though the official pay date is Thursday, Jan 3). This shit causes confusion every damn year!!!
Ummm can I have the answer to this? Because yea I wasn't sure how the whole pay period ends vs check is cut vs official pay date works out.
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at my employer's holiday party, our new VP of operations thanked me for my analysis/report that convinced the owners to make a low-ER 401k a priority for 2019. Also she said that a significant number of the employees max out their contributions, so they're super mad at the high fees of our current 'MuricanFunds 401k. Everyone is contributing, at the very least, the minimum 6% to get the match.
Heh, I work with a ton of savers. Awesome!
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I love my new company! They are all so financially savvy. HR pushes HSAs as a great investment vehicle. They just implemented a new feature to auto-enroll people in after-tax 401k contributions if you are already maxing out the tax-advantaged space. Our 401k plan has auto Roth conversion for the after-tax money. The plan is with Vanguard with awesome fees.
Contrast to my old company where they just this year implemented after-tax Roth conversion as an option. You could only convert once a year, you had to pay a fee to do it, and you had to FAX a dead-tree form in to request the conversion, which took place a week+ later. What bullshit.
The default investment option there was a target date fund (fine) with fees around 0.7+% (not fine). I fought hard to advocate for lower fees but got bullshit responses in return until I gave up.left for a better company.
FTFY. Doesn't sound like you gave up anything in the end. Hooray!
:)
You are right about it being a better company. It was a bit of a challenge mentally to decide that is what I was really going to do though. I had 14 years in the first company and had been selected for various special-people career development programs and all of that. I don’t think it unreasonable to say i could have become a VP there eventually had I stayed. So in my mind this move was deliberately choosing to turn my back on the career advancement path and choose to prioritize my personal life in the long run. I feel like being steeped in MMM for so many years put my head in the right space to make that move. Sure, I’m earning more at a better company now, but I am a nobody in a sea of super smart, talented people whereas before I was connected and influential (somewhat). I’m totally okay with that because my goal is no longer career achievement but FI, baby!
Dunno, I think of FI and RE as the ultimate career achievement. For most of us, hitting those targets makes our lives far more interesting/rewarding/meaningful. I should toss "happier" in there, too.
As to your "nobody" assesment: 1) I call BS and 2) Being surrounded by smart people actually helps me up my game and is somehow more satisfying, in my experience.
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I love my new company! They are all so financially savvy. HR pushes HSAs as a great investment vehicle. They just implemented a new feature to auto-enroll people in after-tax 401k contributions if you are already maxing out the tax-advantaged space. Our 401k plan has auto Roth conversion for the after-tax money. The plan is with Vanguard with awesome fees.
Contrast to my old company where they just this year implemented after-tax Roth conversion as an option. You could only convert once a year, you had to pay a fee to do it, and you had to FAX a dead-tree form in to request the conversion, which took place a week+ later. What bullshit.
The default investment option there was a target date fund (fine) with fees around 0.7+% (not fine). I fought hard to advocate for lower fees but got bullshit responses in return until I gave up.left for a better company.
FTFY. Doesn't sound like you gave up anything in the end. Hooray!
:)
SNIP
achievement but FI, baby![/b]
Dunno, I think of FI and RE as the ultimate career achievement. For most of us, hitting those targets makes our lives far more interesting/rewarding/meaningful. I should toss "happier" in there, too.
As to your "nobody" assesment: 1) I call BS and 2) Being surrounded by smart people actually helps me up my game and is somehow more satisfying, in my experience.
I can always count on Dicey to keep me honest :)
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I had a co-worker tell me that he's contributing the "maximum" to his 401K.
He also is almost entirely in bonds, trying to time his entry back into the stock market, so not exactly a paragon.
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Funny how “maxing” seems to have different meanings.
Max go get company match (whatever)
Max of tax-deferred space ($19k)
Max of total contributions ($55k)
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Yesterday one of my coworkers, who I have already talked about maxing their TSP (and also I got to read MMM, although doesn't seem too keen on early retirement), was asking how to change the withholding for 2019.
Another coworker, who I know contributes but I figured was only getting the match, wandered over and asked for the website link. To my surprise, she asked if the maximum had increased. Turns out they're both maxing theirs out. Way to go!
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I love my new company! They are all so financially savvy. HR pushes HSAs as a great investment vehicle. They just implemented a new feature to auto-enroll people in after-tax 401k contributions if you are already maxing out the tax-advantaged space. Our 401k plan has auto Roth conversion for the after-tax money. The plan is with Vanguard with awesome fees.
Contrast to my old company where they just this year implemented after-tax Roth conversion as an option. You could only convert once a year, you had to pay a fee to do it, and you had to FAX a dead-tree form in to request the conversion, which took place a week+ later. What bullshit.
The default investment option there was a target date fund (fine) with fees around 0.7+% (not fine). I fought hard to advocate for lower fees but got bullshit responses in return until I gave up.left for a better company.
FTFY. Doesn't sound like you gave up anything in the end. Hooray!
:)
You are right about it being a better company. It was a bit of a challenge mentally to decide that is what I was really going to do though. I had 14 years in the first company and had been selected for various special-people career development programs and all of that. I don’t think it unreasonable to say i could have become a VP there eventually had I stayed. So in my mind this move was deliberately choosing to turn my back on the career advancement path and choose to prioritize my personal life in the long run. I feel like being steeped in MMM for so many years put my head in the right space to make that move. Sure, I’m earning more at a better company now, but I am a nobody in a sea of super smart, talented people whereas before I was connected and influential (somewhat). I’m totally okay with that because my goal is no longer career achievement but FI, baby!
@ysette9 - my company just did the same thing! I'm thrilled. And now wondering if we work at the same place. :-)
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I love my new company! They are all so financially savvy. HR pushes HSAs as a great investment vehicle. They just implemented a new feature to auto-enroll people in after-tax 401k contributions if you are already maxing out the tax-advantaged space. Our 401k plan has auto Roth conversion for the after-tax money. The plan is with Vanguard with awesome fees.
Contrast to my old company where they just this year implemented after-tax Roth conversion as an option. You could only convert once a year, you had to pay a fee to do it, and you had to FAX a dead-tree form in to request the conversion, which took place a week+ later. What bullshit.
The default investment option there was a target date fund (fine) with fees around 0.7+% (not fine). I fought hard to advocate for lower fees but got bullshit responses in return until I gave up.left for a better company.
FTFY. Doesn't sound like you gave up anything in the end. Hooray!
:)
SNIP
achievement but FI, baby![/b]
Dunno, I think of FI and RE as the ultimate career achievement. For most of us, hitting those targets makes our lives far more interesting/rewarding/meaningful. I should toss "happier" in there, too.
As to your "nobody" assesment: 1) I call BS and 2) Being surrounded by smart people actually helps me up my game and is somehow more satisfying, in my experience.
I can always count on Dicey to keep me honest :)
For you, my dear, the pleasure is all mine. You are killing it!
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Funny how “maxing” seems to have different meanings.
Max go get company match (whatever)
Max of tax-deferred space ($19k)
Max of total contributions ($55k)
The last is for the lucky few. Those whose company's either give a super match or allow for after tax contributions. I'd love to put in another 30k or so but my 401k has said "no not allowed"
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Colleague dropped a bomb yesterday afternoon - emailed around saying it was her last day at work and she won't be back. She'd been here for a little over 5 years.
They're typical - husband works full time, she worked part time, they have a young kid, house/mortgage etc etc. Am somewhat amazed she has FU money to just walk out.
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Not a huge bombshell, but I noticed one of younger (Mid-20s) colleagues had Personal Capital open on his computer the other day. I don't know if he's interested in FIRE or not, but I've mentioned my plans at one point and we've talked to each other about being interested in self-employment in the future. Not sure what his goals are, but it sounds to me like he has his head on relatively straight.
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At my current gig, this was perhaps a month ago.
Boss: Let's all go out to lunch today to celebrate the completion of Project X!
Coworker A: YEAH! I know just the place. Sushi.
Coworker B: Uhh... boss, you're paying, right?
Boss: Well, not exactly.
Coworker A: Aw, who cares? We get to go out and have fun!
Coworker B: Pass. Let me know if you want to actually take us out as a real reward.
So cool - I rarely hear people other than me ask the tough questions in these situations. Then the bill comes and it's too late.
LOL, one time my boss invited me to lunch, and then immediately added "you pay for yourself" (or something to that effect... maybe a bit more tactful but still super awkward). The joys of working with lawyers.
I had a Boss ask me of I wanted to come out to lunch with him, I asked where, he said a Sandwich at Stop n Shop! errr NO, I said I brought my lunch already. EWWW! so cheap! (and a sleazebag)
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Spoke to a business contact in LA. She’s heartbroken because her 11yo Toyota Yaris requires such major repairs she’s going to have to replace it. She’s a high income earner in a keeping up with the Joneses-centric industry. She does not want to have to buy a new car and just wants something cheap/small/relaible.
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I had the "Ask a Mustachian" tab open on my computer when one of my co-workers was asking me an IT question. The next day, he told me that he had a vivid dream about discussing FIRE together - it turns out that he's been following MMM for years. I've been outed! :-P
Work is in a huge upheaval right now. We smiled over having "FU money" to get us through.
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I had the "Ask a Mustachian" tab open on my computer when one of my co-workers was asking me an IT question. The next day, he told me that he had a vivid dream about discussing FIRE together - it turns out that he's been following MMM for years. I've been outed! :-P
Work is in a huge upheaval right now. We smiled over having "FU money" to get us through.
One of my young coworker's really old car is having issues (he had it towed, the towing company did something bad to it...) Anyway, I was joking about how my husband wanted to buy me a minivan last fall and I said no. (Because my 12.5 year old Toyota is fine) and he pipes up "I'm probably in the market for a new car if you want to sell it!"
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I found at work someone's anti-mustachian ex-husband. While we were discussing our W-2's, I mentioned paying yourself first. He said, "Yeah, my ex was a big saver. She had lots of money and was one of the most joyless persons I've known. I want to live." O-K. I guess frugality and stoicism can look like depression when your happiness stems from buying stuff.
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I found at work someone's anti-mustachian ex-husband. While we were discussing our W-2's, I mentioned paying yourself first. He said, "Yeah, my ex was a big saver. She had lots of money and was one of the most joyless persons I've known. I want to live." O-K. I guess frugality and stoicism can look like depression when your happiness stems from buying stuff.
I'm not sure whether this one fits this thread because of the frugal ex-wife, or whether it belongs in the "overheard at work 2" thread, because of the spendthrift guy.
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I found at work someone's anti-mustachian ex-husband. While we were discussing our W-2's, I mentioned paying yourself first. He said, "Yeah, my ex was a big saver. She had lots of money and was one of the most joyless persons I've known. I want to live." O-K. I guess frugality and stoicism can look like depression when your happiness stems from buying stuff.
Just a little cautioner here. Your interpretation might me very off (of course you know that person better).
You can be joyless with or without spending money and you can be spending money in carloads and still a party buster. Not to mention that an ex is normally not the most objective source.
In my case an ex could say "He was such a joyless miser! He would say 40$ for a concert was way too much money and would instead buy a book for 10 bucks and sit all the day at home!!"
I don't like concerts, but I like books. For me that is way more joyful, so of course 40$ is way too much for less fun.
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I found at work someone's anti-mustachian ex-husband. While we were discussing our W-2's, I mentioned paying yourself first. He said, "Yeah, my ex was a big saver. She had lots of money and was one of the most joyless persons I've known. I want to live." O-K. I guess frugality and stoicism can look like depression when your happiness stems from buying stuff.
Just a little cautioner here. Your interpretation might me very off (of course you know that person better).
You can be joyless with or without spending money and you can be spending money in carloads and still a party buster. Not to mention that an ex is normally not the most objective source.
In my case an ex could say "He was such a joyless miser! He would say 40$ for a concert was way too much money and would instead buy a book for 10 bucks and sit all the day at home!!"
I don't like concerts, but I like books. For me that is way more joyful, so of course 40$ is way too much for less fun.
And $10 Is too much for a book, when libraries are free, lol!
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One of my coworkers started a conversation about investing lately. She's aware that I'm frugal/a saver so she asked if I invested my money vs having it on a savings account. As I was glad she's thinking about investing (we're both first year into full time working post-college) I told her I have quite a few resources and ideas on it to share. I was so happy that my not-too-frugal coworker DOES save some money and wants to invest it.
It also gave me an MPP as I was afraid recommending MMM to her would result in her coming to the forums and recognizing me as her coworker.
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It also gave me an MPP as I was afraid recommending MMM to her would result in her coming to the forums and recognizing me as her coworker.
I hate to say it here, but that would totally ruin my day if it happened to me.
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What is MPP? Thanks. (Google didn't deliver an answer)
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What is MPP? Thanks. (Google didn't deliver an answer)
From the Mustachian People Problems Post over on the general discussion page.
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/mustachian-people-problems-(just-for-fun)/
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It also gave me an MPP as I was afraid recommending MMM to her would result in her coming to the forums and recognizing me as her coworker.
I hate to say it here, but that would totally ruin my day if it happened to me.
I have mentioned the concept of self financed early retirement to two young colleagues some time ago. I'm not sure if they ever went to investigate the idea further, as they never asked follow up questions about it. But if they would come to this forum, I would be really easy to recognise, using my real first name and real country of living.
Our hope is that there is a lot of valuable information to read on the MMM blog site, without needing to visit the forums. I think the forums are more for the people who like to communicate with like-minded people.
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It also gave me an MPP as I was afraid recommending MMM to her would result in her coming to the forums and recognizing me as her coworker.
I hate to say it here, but that would totally ruin my day if it happened to me.
I have mentioned the concept of self financed early retirement to two young colleagues some time ago. I'm not sure if they ever went to investigate the idea further, as they never asked follow up questions about it. But if they would come to this forum, I would be really easy to recognise, using my real first name and real country of living.
Our hope is that there is a lot of valuable information to read on the MMM blog site, without needing to visit the forums. I think the forums are more for the people who like to communicate with like-minded people.
Same here Linda. I don't use my real name, but country + city + moving history + job information should make it VERY obvious once one finds my journal. But indeed a new MMM reader won't likely end up in the journal section of the forum all too quickly. I did recommend her several other resources though (Dutch "Financieelonafhankelijk" blog, JLCollins, some general investment/broker advice) so she should get plenty of exposure to the type of investments she could start out with + it's Dutch-focussed. She didn't seem all too interested in the frugality message so I thought some more NL-specific advice would be sufficient. Not sure if she'll get back to me about it, but generally we're pretty open about this sort of stuff so I'll see.
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And $10 Is too much for a book, when libraries are free, lol!
They are not. yearly fees are about one book though. But getting abook from another library normally costs money, and they very certainly don't have the english edition here in Germany.
And of course, there is the warm feeling of a library in your home...
As far as luxuries goes, books are certainly one of the cheapest and most positive hobbies there are ;)
"Financieelonafhankelijk"
LOL
I like that as a German, I can get the meaning of practically every dutch word if I just repeat it often enough, even with such mammoth words. Took me 4 times for this ^^
Interesting, German has no bang word, we put it in two. Finanzielle Unabhängigkeit.
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"Financieelonafhankelijk"
LOL
I like that as a German, I can get the meaning of practically every dutch word if I just repeat it often enough, even with such mammoth words. Took me 4 times for this ^^
Interesting, German has no bang word, we put it in two. Finanzielle Unabhängigkeit.
I am Dutch. I think it is not natural to write Financieelonafhankelijk as one word. Financieel onafhankelijk or Financiële onafhankelijkheid would be more proper Dutch. But a blog address probably works better as one word without space.
We Dutch people can also understand German quite well, even if we didn't pay too much attention during the lessons at school. It is very similar.
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And $10 Is too much for a book, when libraries are free, lol!
They are not. yearly fees are about one book though. But getting abook from another library normally costs money, and they very certainly don't have the english edition here in Germany.
And of course, there is the warm feeling of a library in your home...
As far as luxuries goes, books are certainly one of the cheapest and most positive hobbies there are ;)
"Financieelonafhankelijk"
LOL
I like that as a German, I can get the meaning of practically every dutch word if I just repeat it often enough, even with such mammoth words. Took me 4 times for this ^^
Interesting, German has no bang word, we put it in two. Finanzielle Unabhängigkeit.
Libraries in the US are free, or at least paid for by taxes regardless of whether or not you decide to use them. The only time I've paid extra is when I don't bring books back on time and I get late fees. You can request books from other libraries for free as well.
I've actually found German translations available of books a few times, but that might be because I live in a town with a university, and within 100 miles of three others - I bet all of the German books come from there. Not that I can read them anymore. My German reading comprehension is at like a 1st grade level, if I'm being very generous with myself.
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"Financieelonafhankelijk"
LOL
I like that as a German, I can get the meaning of practically every dutch word if I just repeat it often enough, even with such mammoth words. Took me 4 times for this ^^
Interesting, German has no bang word, we put it in two. Finanzielle Unabhängigkeit.
I am Dutch. I think it is not natural to write Financieelonafhankelijk as one word. Financieel onafhankelijk or Financiële onafhankelijkheid would be more proper Dutch. But a blog address probably works better as one word without space.
We Dutch people can also understand German quite well, even if we didn't pay too much attention during the lessons at school. It is very similar.
True, it was actually a good old typo from my side, the actual name is "Financieel Onafhankelijk blog". And same thing on the German phrases/words. I have a lot of German friends and as they tend to cluster together and easily end up speaking German to each other when abroad, my German listening abilities always skyrocket during my trips (and then suddenly when I reply I fall back into English cause German speaking is muuuuch harder).
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The only time I've paid extra is when I don't bring books back on time and I get late fees.
My county recently offered an amnesty on all fees. Had a bunch of late/lost books? Erased. Imagine the vitriol on the local conservative news site.
This is the same county that just gives thousands of books away each year (those taken out of circulation). That actually seems like a lot of waste to me, but perhaps a lot of it was donations to begin with.
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The only time I've paid extra is when I don't bring books back on time and I get late fees.
My county recently offered an amnesty on all fees. Had a bunch of late/lost books? Erased. Imagine the vitriol on the local conservative news site.
This is the same county that just gives thousands of books away each year (those taken out of circulation). That actually seems like a lot of waste to me, but perhaps a lot of it was donations to begin with.
I work for a library. Sooooo many books come out every year. It would be really unfortunate if we didn't have room for awesome new books because our shelf space was taken up with stuff people don't want. Sometimes popularity wanes before the copies physically wear out, sometimes maybe it was just a dud. But selling those books at the book sale or giving them away at outreach events is at least a chance to build excitement about the library.
As far as amnesty on fines, a lot of times fines don't actually go back to the library, they just go to the general local government budget, where they are a tiny drop in the bucket. So there may be no relationship between fines and the ability to purchase new items.
FWIW the library I work for doesn't charge fines anymore anyway, which is nice. You only have to pay for a book if you lose it. Or, say, your cat throws up on it. Which has definitely happened to me.
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And $10 Is too much for a book, when libraries are free, lol!
They are not. yearly fees are about one book though. But getting abook from another library normally costs money, and they very certainly don't have the english edition here in Germany.
And of course, there is the warm feeling of a library in your home...
As far as luxuries goes, books are certainly one of the cheapest and most positive hobbies there are ;)
"Financieelonafhankelijk"
LOL
I like that as a German, I can get the meaning of practically every dutch word if I just repeat it often enough, even with such mammoth words. Took me 4 times for this ^^
Interesting, German has no bang word, we put it in two. Finanzielle Unabhängigkeit.
I love that, in German and Dutch, you can kind of make up new words by stringing smaller existing words and particles together. If you do that in English or French it's a symptom of schizophrenia.
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People up north talk too fast, I thought they were stringing words together to make new words.
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The only time I've paid extra is when I don't bring books back on time and I get late fees.
My county recently offered an amnesty on all fees. Had a bunch of late/lost books? Erased. Imagine the vitriol on the local conservative news site.
This is the same county that just gives thousands of books away each year (those taken out of circulation). That actually seems like a lot of waste to me, but perhaps a lot of it was donations to begin with.
I work for a library. Sooooo many books come out every year. It would be really unfortunate if we didn't have room for awesome new books because our shelf space was taken up with stuff people don't want. Sometimes popularity wanes before the copies physically wear out, sometimes maybe it was just a dud. But selling those books at the book sale or giving them away at outreach events is at least a chance to build excitement about the library.
As far as amnesty on fines, a lot of times fines don't actually go back to the library, they just go to the general local government budget, where they are a tiny drop in the bucket. So there may be no relationship between fines and the ability to purchase new items.
FWIW the library I work for doesn't charge fines anymore anyway, which is nice. You only have to pay for a book if you lose it. Or, say, your cat throws up on it. Which has definitely happened to me.
Our library system has just enacted this same policy! The feeling was that accrued fines were preventing too many lower income kids from checking out books. Also, not having to manage cash frees up time for staff.
@LennStar, I did not know you are in Germany. I agree that a stockpile of good books to read is comforting. When I was squeezing my budget the hardest, I realized I just couldn't afford my new book habit. I decided to volunteer at the library's book sales. Now I'm on the Friends of the Library Board and help run the sales. I haven't paid more than $1.00 for a book in over a decade. It's amazing what people donate! Until this new policy was put in place, it was also a great way to avoid fines. It's funny, I get so many books this way that I rarely use my library card any more. And my frugal personal library is quite cozy indeed!
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And that is why I have my own small library. Can't rely on the library to have a book important to me in the future. I just buy used books to keep the costs down.
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It also gave me an MPP as I was afraid recommending MMM to her would result in her coming to the forums and recognizing me as her coworker.
I hate to say it here, but that would totally ruin my day if it happened to me.
I have mentioned the concept of self financed early retirement to two young colleagues some time ago. I'm not sure if they ever went to investigate the idea further, as they never asked follow up questions about it. But if they would come to this forum, I would be really easy to recognise, using my real first name and real country of living.
Our hope is that there is a lot of valuable information to read on the MMM blog site, without needing to visit the forums. I think the forums are more for the people who like to communicate with like-minded people.
Same here Linda. I don't use my real name, but country + city + moving history + job information should make it VERY obvious once one finds my journal. But indeed a new MMM reader won't likely end up in the journal section of the forum all too quickly. I did recommend her several other resources though (Dutch "Financieelonafhankelijk" blog, JLCollins, some general investment/broker advice) so she should get plenty of exposure to the type of investments she could start out with + it's Dutch-focussed. She didn't seem all too interested in the frugality message so I thought some more NL-specific advice would be sufficient. Not sure if she'll get back to me about it, but generally we're pretty open about this sort of stuff so I'll see.
I accidentally found my co-worker, who is no longer active on the forums, when reading a very old thread. I couldn’t help myself from reading a couple old posts to confirm my inkling, but I was able to quash my curiousity of reading more...it felt too much like an invasion of privacy. If she became active again, I’m sure she would quickly figure out my identity. She knows I’m on the forums and I sometimes update her on any discussions I think she would find interesting. And I’ve shared links, including mmm, with a new coworker who seems naturally mustachian. One of the first questions he asked me was if I knew how our state taxes 401k/IRA distributions in retirement (to help him decide Roth v traditional). I’m sure he could figure out my identity as well if he looks at the forum. So I try to keep that in mind when I’m posting things.
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People up north talk too fast, I thought they were stringing words together to make new words.
Years ago I had to make a tech support phone call to NYC. The person I reached talked really fast and wasn't really motivated to provide good customer service either.
So I said this, in a very exaggerated southern accent, making sure to draw out the length of key words throughout the sentence:
"Excuse me, ma'am, but I'm from the south and we don't talk that fast 'round here. Would you mind talking a mite slower?"
Worked like a charm. Literally. It tickled her so much she became very helpful.
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I love that, in German and Dutch, you can kind of make up new words by stringing smaller existing words and particles together. If you do that in English or French it's a symptom of schizophrenia.
In English, we just string a whole bunch of nouns together, and pretend that all but the last are adjectives. :)
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People up north talk too fast, I thought they were stringing words together to make new words.
Years ago I had to make a tech support phone call to NYC. The person I reached talked really fast and wasn't really motivated to provide good customer service either.
So I said this, in a very exaggerated southern accent, making sure to draw out the length of key words throughout the sentence:
"Excuse me, ma'am, but I'm from the south and we don't talk that fast 'round here. Would you mind talking a mite slower?"
Worked like a charm. Literally. It tickled her so much she became very helpful.
When my internet is down and I've checked everything on my end, I've noticed I get the best support when I explain the problem and what I've done so far in a drawl. This means the tech doesn't have to make me run through the verification checks again, and they immediately start investigating their side of the network. At brick-n-mortar customer service departments, using the line "Sir/Ma'am what would you do if you were in my shoes?" is a winner.
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I found at work someone's anti-mustachian ex-husband. While we were discussing our W-2's, I mentioned paying yourself first. He said, "Yeah, my ex was a big saver. She had lots of money and was one of the most joyless persons I've known. I want to live." O-K. I guess frugality and stoicism can look like depression when your happiness stems from buying stuff.
Oh, you work with my ex-husband?
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And that is why I have my own small library. Can't rely on the library to have a book important to me in the future. I just buy used books to keep the costs down.
I picked up one of the best books I've read in awhile at a thrift store for a dollar recently (In the Heart of the Sea, if you're interested). But I really don't have a lot of room for books. Or anything else for that matter; ah, the...um....joys of living with a hoarder. I have two Kindles though. My old one that is the e-ink version that I use to check out books from the library. I can download 5 to the Kindle and then turn it's wifi off. Then I can return those books to the library or let them return automatically in two weeks. The books won't actually go off the Kindle until it connects back to wifi. I get to read at my leisure and someone else gets to check them out. Win-win. I also have a newer Kindle that I use more as a tablet and use it to read things like the books that come as one of my Prime benefits.
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Loved that ^^ book and I paid the same price. It was worth every penny.
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And that is why I have my own small library. Can't rely on the library to have a book important to me in the future. I just buy used books to keep the costs down.
I picked up one of the best books I've read in awhile at a thrift store for a dollar recently (In the Heart of the Sea, if you're interested). But I really don't have a lot of room for books. Or anything else for that matter; ah, the...um....joys of living with a hoarder. I have two Kindles though. My old one that is the e-ink version that I use to check out books from the library. I can download 5 to the Kindle and then turn it's wifi off. Then I can return those books to the library or let them return automatically in two weeks. The books won't actually go off the Kindle until it connects back to wifi. I get to read at my leisure and someone else gets to check them out. Win-win. I also have a newer Kindle that I use more as a tablet and use it to read things like the books that come as one of my Prime benefits.
I don't know if it is true, but I have read on this forum that until you turn the wifi back on and return the book it IS locked and no one else can check out the book. I'd love to know for sure whether this is true or not.
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And that is why I have my own small library. Can't rely on the library to have a book important to me in the future. I just buy used books to keep the costs down.
I picked up one of the best books I've read in awhile at a thrift store for a dollar recently (In the Heart of the Sea, if you're interested). But I really don't have a lot of room for books. Or anything else for that matter; ah, the...um....joys of living with a hoarder. I have two Kindles though. My old one that is the e-ink version that I use to check out books from the library. I can download 5 to the Kindle and then turn it's wifi off. Then I can return those books to the library or let them return automatically in two weeks. The books won't actually go off the Kindle until it connects back to wifi. I get to read at my leisure and someone else gets to check them out. Win-win. I also have a newer Kindle that I use more as a tablet and use it to read things like the books that come as one of my Prime benefits.
I don't know if it is true, but I have read on this forum that until you turn the wifi back on and return the book it IS locked and no one else can check out the book. I'd love to know for sure whether this is true or not.
https://librarianbyday.net/2011/10/26/how-to-extend-the-due-date-of-your-library-ebook-on-the-kindle/ This says that it doesn't prevent others from checking it out. Also, https://bookriot.com/2018/08/20/how-to-keep-library-ebooks-longer/
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Our book collection isn't that large. We have a modest sized home with four 3 ft wide bookshelves scattered around for media and books.
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I have a neighbour at work who is retiring imminently, at age 55. She will be getting a pension from work and is basically views it as having won lottery for life. She is thrilled and I am thrilled for her. She wasn't making the big bucks in her position and even though 55 is not exactly what is considered ER on these boards, I get the impression she has a pretty mustachian lifestyle. In retirement, she is looking forward to spending more time with friends, biking, and hiking, for example.
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I have a neighbour at work who is retiring imminently, at age 55. She will be getting a pension from work and is basically views it as having won lottery for life. She is thrilled and I am thrilled for her. She wasn't making the big bucks in her position and even though 55 is not exactly what is considered ER on these boards, I get the impression she has a pretty mustachian lifestyle. In retirement, she is looking forward to spending more time with friends, biking, and hiking, for example.
Good on her! I still think being able to leave 12 years early is quite the achievement! I definitely count it as ER.
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Boss: "I hired someone to come organize everything so I can just stand there and point where I want it."
Co-worker: "Wow, nice." (Unsure if this was sarcasm or not)
Me in my head: U WOT M8 :)
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My co-worker just increased his retirement withholding. Granted, it's only because he did his taxes last night and got a nasty surprise and is looking for ways to decrease his tax burden for next year. But it's something.
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Interesting, German has no bang word, we put it in two. Finanzielle Unabhängigkeit.
Kohleförderungsausstieg? Knetenselbstvermehrung?
If either of those stick, I claim credit. :)
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I started carpooling with a coworker in a few months ago. This person is somebody that has a lot of debt but is trying to dig out of it, not really in a mustachian way but still trying to pay it off.
The other day we are driving home and CW tells me that for the 1st time ever they set aside half of next months rent out of this paycheck and put it into savings. I said how impressed I am. CW then tells me that they had to use it to fix the car but they didn't have to put anything extra on the credit card. CW was really excited about not putting more debt on the cc so I think they will continue to try to put money into savings from every check to cover future expenses. Everyone has to start somewhere.
I considered this conversation in 3 parts, win - ouch - win.
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I started carpooling with a coworker in a few months ago. This person is somebody that has a lot of debt but is trying to dig out of it, not really in a mustachian way but still trying to pay it off.
The other day we are driving home and CW tells me that for the 1st time ever they set aside half of next months rent out of this paycheck and put it into savings. I said how impressed I am. CW then tells me that they had to use it to fix the car but they didn't have to put anything extra on the credit card. CW was really excited about not putting more debt on the cc so I think they will continue to try to put money into savings from every check to cover future expenses. Everyone has to start somewhere.
I considered this conversation in 3 parts, win - ouch - win.
Pretty much everyone I've ever known to try this gets hammered by a big bill soon afterwards. It's as if the universe is testing us...
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I started carpooling with a coworker in a few months ago. This person is somebody that has a lot of debt but is trying to dig out of it, not really in a mustachian way but still trying to pay it off.
The other day we are driving home and CW tells me that for the 1st time ever they set aside half of next months rent out of this paycheck and put it into savings. I said how impressed I am. CW then tells me that they had to use it to fix the car but they didn't have to put anything extra on the credit card. CW was really excited about not putting more debt on the cc so I think they will continue to try to put money into savings from every check to cover future expenses. Everyone has to start somewhere.
I considered this conversation in 3 parts, win - ouch - win.
Pretty much everyone I've ever known to try this gets hammered by a big bill soon afterwards. It's as if the universe is testing us...
Of course it's a fallacy, but this is mentioned in that "psychology of a poor person" article... if you don't spend all extra money on something fun, it'll inevitably get eaten up by something boring like a car repair.
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Not really Mustachian, but a hot topic on this website.
My boss told me yesterday that she is now in decluttering mood. Marie Condo-lite. She can finally find her clothes in her wardrobe, after declutttering 3 garbage bags full of them.
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I started carpooling with a coworker in a few months ago. This person is somebody that has a lot of debt but is trying to dig out of it, not really in a mustachian way but still trying to pay it off.
The other day we are driving home and CW tells me that for the 1st time ever they set aside half of next months rent out of this paycheck and put it into savings. I said how impressed I am. CW then tells me that they had to use it to fix the car but they didn't have to put anything extra on the credit card. CW was really excited about not putting more debt on the cc so I think they will continue to try to put money into savings from every check to cover future expenses. Everyone has to start somewhere.
I considered this conversation in 3 parts, win - ouch - win.
Pretty much everyone I've ever known to try this gets hammered by a big bill soon afterwards. It's as if the universe is testing us...
Of course it's a fallacy, but this is mentioned in that "psychology of a poor person" article... if you don't spend all extra money on something fun, it'll inevitably get eaten up by something boring like a car repair.
I guess the person's attitude about it is what really matters. One can look at is as "if you don't spend all extra money on something fun, it'll inevitably get eaten up by something boring" or "I love the feeling of being able to pay for something without creating more debt, this is fun". It seemed like CW is leaning towards the 2nd mentality.
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Not really Mustachian, but a hot topic on this website.
My boss told me yesterday that she is now in decluttering mood. Marie Condo-lite. She can finally find her clothes in her wardrobe, after declutttering 3 garbage bags full of them.
Time to go shopping soon!
Oh right - not the right thread... :)
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New coworker, 21 and fresh out of college, was a little sheepish about her bagged lunch... said she felt like a kindergartener. But I was like, no way I bring my lunch too (we're the only two people in our small office who do)! Told her that there's only a handful of decent places to eat around here and they get old real fast anyway. She seemed encouraged and has kept bringing her lunch in.
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New coworker, 21 and fresh out of college, was a little sheepish about her bagged lunch... said she felt like a kindergartener. But I was like, no way I bring my lunch too (we're the only two people in our small office who do)! Told her that there's only a handful of decent places to eat around here and they get old real fast anyway. She seemed encouraged and has kept bringing her lunch in.
You can be that cool friend who inspires her to even more coolness.
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New coworker, 21 and fresh out of college, was a little sheepish about her bagged lunch... said she felt like a kindergartener. But I was like, no way I bring my lunch too (we're the only two people in our small office who do)! Told her that there's only a handful of decent places to eat around here and they get old real fast anyway. She seemed encouraged and has kept bringing her lunch in.
You can be that cool friend who inspires her to even more coolness.
Yeah.
Don't need to be a big thing, just try to start the right thoughts.
Calculate how much she saves a day... a year... during her career (forget investing here) and ask her if she prefers to not look a bit like a kindergartner or have 100K extra.
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Coworker loves new cars and is always talking about them. He needs a new (to him) car and buys a 5 year old car with some very minor scratches. He specifically searched for a certain model that apparantly doesn't need a lot of maintenance.
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Today we had a meeting at work about our new pension system. As it was close to the cafeteria, I told the cook about it. He said that he doesn't rely on pensions at all. So he saves a lot of pension privately. Good for him.
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Not my workplace but my brother's. He told me how at first, he'd be the only one bringing in his own lunch while his coworkers paid $5/day to eat at the buffet they offer at his workplace. However, apparently he's inspired his peers as every week, more bagged lunches have popped up in the group. They discussed how making their own lunch saved them a few $$ a day for similar quality food.
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Not my workplace but my brother's. He told me how at first, he'd be the only one bringing in his own lunch while his coworkers paid $5/day to eat at the buffet they offer at his workplace. However, apparently he's inspired his peers as every week, more bagged lunches have popped up in the group. They discussed how making their own lunch saved them a few $$ a day for similar quality food.
Or they could just eat only once a day - there. Then 5$ isn't that bad.
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The first officer I'm flying with is nearing his one year anniversary with our company, which is when employees begin to receive 401k matching, so I mentioned he should make sure he has it set up so he doesn't miss out on free money. He said he's already contributing 20%. Whoa! Never heard that from a first year first officer.
He has also mentioned that he doesn't really have a permanent home, but is instead couch surfing with various friends and relatives, and hopes to do it for another year to get his student loans paid off.
That's some serious badassity considering first year pay is typically low $30k range and flying lessons aren't cheap.
that's impressive indeed!....I really like it when the guy/girl in the right hand seat is responsible too!!!!
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I heard today that one of my youngest colleagues lives together with his GF and rents out a bedroom to another girl. I knew he was planning to get a roommate before he got his GF. But it is pretty badass that they rent out a room while living together. The girl pays for about 40% of the total housing costs.
For about a year ago I told this colleague about the concept of FIRE, in the hope that it would catch his intention before he inflated his lifestyle. Seems like he is responding in a smart way.
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We have a new hire who is in the middle of her 6 months training for my job; kind of like being between boot camp and waiting to go into her specialty training if she were in the military. She's in between courses at our office for about 4 weeks. I gave her a guide to retirement written by a "wise old retired hair-bag" in our career who is more of a boglehead than MMM but gives solid, basic easy to understand advise. Later in the afternoon she asked me to show her where in our payroll system where she could increase here 401k contributions.
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Not overheard at work but what I did:
Got on the benefits committee at my employer last year, proposed a 401k switch to a better provider from the current AmFunds.
Was given time to research and write a data-driven paper with my findings and recommendations.
Submitted to management after committee peer review.
New corporate Veep asked me to brief her late last year.
Meanwhile, heard about Guideline on MMM Forums, proposed it as an additional/late recommendation.
HR/Benefits team sat with current and prospective providers in Q1 2019, Guideline top in every category.
On 4/1 company announced the switch will happen at the end of the month.
I had to tell them this wasn't an April Fool's Day trick, this was the real thing.
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Nicely done, jinga nation! May I ask if there was a small-cap value option as part of the package you proposed?
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Nicely done, jinga nation! May I ask if there was a small-cap value option as part of the package you proposed?
VSIAX
full fund list: https://www.guideline.com/funds
There's no package. You get access to all funds in the above link.
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Today at lunch, a younger colleague was asking about the difference between 401k and Roth 401k. He was doing research over the weekend and had a few things he didn't quite understand.
We had a good discussion about traditional vs tax-deferred, early withdrawal strategies, Roth ladders, etc.
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A colleague and I were having a small moan about work.
Then he dropped in the conversation about how he was tweaking his 'spreadsheet' to see if he can retire early. He is aiming for 3 years from now.
Happy to find another spreadsheeter at work!
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colleague was moaning that it's still a few years until he can add to the catch-up 401k contributions... because maxing 401k and IRAs isn't enough. I concur.
I told him it wasn't fair that he's 6 years older than me, so he gets a head start. I claim age-discrimination. LOL.
Our chief engineer is also in this boat.
Insufficient ways to reduce taxable is a sore-spot in my company; many of us moan about it.
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colleague was moaning that it's still a few years until he can add to the catch-up 401k contributions... because maxing 401k and IRAs isn't enough. I concur.
I told him it wasn't fair that he's 6 years older than me, so he gets a head start. I claim age-discrimination. LOL.
Our chief engineer is also in this boat.
Insufficient ways to reduce taxable is a sore-spot in my company; many of us moan about it.
What other ways do you suggest the company increase tax-deferred space? I though 401k is usually the best you can hope for, unless you are a partnership or government/charity. A cash-value pension?
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Recently ay work, just before a software scrum meeting, some guy mentioned his bank. All the others mentioned in choir that he should change banks, because his bank is the most pricy rippoff bank.
I suggested my bank, and someone mentioned that there was even a cheaper bank than mine... I guess it depends on your use of banks. Maybe he was thinking about mortgage interest rates, while I don't have a mortgage.
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colleague was moaning that it's still a few years until he can add to the catch-up 401k contributions... because maxing 401k and IRAs isn't enough. I concur.
I told him it wasn't fair that he's 6 years older than me, so he gets a head start. I claim age-discrimination. LOL.
Our chief engineer is also in this boat.
Insufficient ways to reduce taxable is a sore-spot in my company; many of us moan about it.
What other ways do you suggest the company increase tax-deferred space? I though 401k is usually the best you can hope for, unless you are a partnership or government/charity. A cash-value pension?
HSA? I know its a couple grand at most if you max it out for an individual, but its something. Families can sock away almost $7k.
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colleague was moaning that it's still a few years until he can add to the catch-up 401k contributions... because maxing 401k and IRAs isn't enough. I concur.
I told him it wasn't fair that he's 6 years older than me, so he gets a head start. I claim age-discrimination. LOL.
Our chief engineer is also in this boat.
Insufficient ways to reduce taxable is a sore-spot in my company; many of us moan about it.
What other ways do you suggest the company increase tax-deferred space? I though 401k is usually the best you can hope for, unless you are a partnership or government/charity. A cash-value pension?
HSA? I know its a couple grand at most if you max it out for an individual, but its something. Families can sock away almost $7k.
You can open one on your own, although it's certainly easier through your employer. A little like complaining your company doesn't offer an IRA
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colleague was moaning that it's still a few years until he can add to the catch-up 401k contributions... because maxing 401k and IRAs isn't enough. I concur.
I told him it wasn't fair that he's 6 years older than me, so he gets a head start. I claim age-discrimination. LOL.
Our chief engineer is also in this boat.
Insufficient ways to reduce taxable is a sore-spot in my company; many of us moan about it.
What other ways do you suggest the company increase tax-deferred space? I though 401k is usually the best you can hope for, unless you are a partnership or government/charity. A cash-value pension?
HSA? I know its a couple grand at most if you max it out for an individual, but its something. Families can sock away almost $7k.
You can open one on your own, although it's certainly easier through your employer. A little like complaining your company doesn't offer an IRA
Employer has all that. Many of us are maxing out every available opportunity. Insufficient avenues to sock away pre-tax monies. (It never is, but we don't complain about paying our fair share of taxes.)
#FirstWorldAnti-AntimustachianProblems :-(
At least we'll be with Vanguard/low-cost funds at Guideline in 8 days. #FuckOffAmericanFunds
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When an HSA is through an employer, you can also avoid payroll taxes (which is the bulk of the taxes I pay). Is that the case if you have an HSA outside of your employer?
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When an HSA is through an employer, you can also avoid payroll taxes (which is the bulk of the taxes I pay). Is that the case if you have an HSA outside of your employer?
No, I don't think so
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colleague was moaning that it's still a few years until he can add to the catch-up 401k contributions... because maxing 401k and IRAs isn't enough. I concur.
I told him it wasn't fair that he's 6 years older than me, so he gets a head start. I claim age-discrimination. LOL.
Our chief engineer is also in this boat.
Insufficient ways to reduce taxable is a sore-spot in my company; many of us moan about it.
What other ways do you suggest the company increase tax-deferred space? I though 401k is usually the best you can hope for, unless you are a partnership or government/charity. A cash-value pension?
HSA? I know its a couple grand at most if you max it out for an individual, but its something. Families can sock away almost $7k.
You can open one on your own, although it's certainly easier through your employer. A little like complaining your company doesn't offer an IRA
Ah. We've never opened one up outside of my husband's employer, so didn't know it was possible to do on your own!
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You can open one on your own, although it's certainly easier through your employer. A little like complaining your company doesn't offer an IRA
Ah. We've never opened one up outside of my husband's employer, so didn't know it was possible to do on your own!
Hope I didn't screw up the quoting...
You have to have a HDHP that qualifies for an HSA and otherwise meet the criteria, so make sure it qualifies first.
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You can open one on your own, although it's certainly easier through your employer. A little like complaining your company doesn't offer an IRA
Ah. We've never opened one up outside of my husband's employer, so didn't know it was possible to do on your own!
Hope I didn't screw up the quoting...
You have to have a HDHP that qualifies for an HSA and otherwise meet the criteria, so make sure it qualifies first.
And if you already have one through your husband, as a family it makes more sense to max his out than to open with a third party, as he will save payroll taxes with his contributions.
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You can open one on your own, although it's certainly easier through your employer. A little like complaining your company doesn't offer an IRA
Ah. We've never opened one up outside of my husband's employer, so didn't know it was possible to do on your own!
Hope I didn't screw up the quoting...
You have to have a HDHP that qualifies for an HSA and otherwise meet the criteria, so make sure it qualifies first.
And if you already have one through your husband, as a family it makes more sense to max his out than to open with a third party, as he will save payroll taxes with his contributions.
We have separate health insurances right now as it makes more sense to be on different plans (so he's considered an individual). This coming year though it'll make more sense to be on his plan together, and it'll be a few more years after that until maxing the HSA will rise enough above other financial priories. Its on the list for one day though!
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You can open one on your own, although it's certainly easier through your employer. A little like complaining your company doesn't offer an IRA
Ah. We've never opened one up outside of my husband's employer, so didn't know it was possible to do on your own!
Hope I didn't screw up the quoting...
You have to have a HDHP that qualifies for an HSA and otherwise meet the criteria, so make sure it qualifies first.
And if you already have one through your husband, as a family it makes more sense to max his out than to open with a third party, as he will save payroll taxes with his contributions.
We have separate health insurances right now as it makes more sense to be on different plans (so he's considered an individual). This coming year though it'll make more sense to be on his plan together, and it'll be a few more years after that until maxing the HSA will rise enough above other financial priories. Its on the list for one day though!
I think there are limits to how much the two of you could put into separate HSAs. Check.
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You can open one on your own, although it's certainly easier through your employer. A little like complaining your company doesn't offer an IRA
Ah. We've never opened one up outside of my husband's employer, so didn't know it was possible to do on your own!
Hope I didn't screw up the quoting...
You have to have a HDHP that qualifies for an HSA and otherwise meet the criteria, so make sure it qualifies first.
And if you already have one through your husband, as a family it makes more sense to max his out than to open with a third party, as he will save payroll taxes with his contributions.
We have separate health insurances right now as it makes more sense to be on different plans (so he's considered an individual). This coming year though it'll make more sense to be on his plan together, and it'll be a few more years after that until maxing the HSA will rise enough above other financial priories. Its on the list for one day though!
I think there are limits to how much the two of you could put into separate HSAs. Check.
There probably are, but right now our contributions are well under his individual max and at $0 for me. We've got a lot of debt to pay off, house savings to do, and 401(k) savings beyond our employer matches before we start sweating over maxing the HSAs. Us putting ANY money in his HSA right now was due to "well, if we do hit his deductible, we're in deep trouble" so its mostly a catastrophic backup plan.
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My twenty-something co-worker was talking about her decision not to buy a game console. She said she wouldn't use it that much, and wanted to save the money to pay down her student loans. She also decided NOT to buy a dog.
God, I'm so proud.
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I'm pleasantly surprised by my new coworkers. I got a new job a couple months ago, and people are just so much more positive and smart with their money. I am frequently hearing about them discussing costs of things, such as food. A lot of people bring their own lunch because they can't fathom spending so much on eating out. The other day I overheard people talking about how it's much better to buy a used car than new, and someone else was asking someone, "Have you been keeping up with budgeting? I've been doing that and...." (They walked away.) Another coworker has talked a couple times about how much she had in her 401k and how she's been saving a LOT for retirement. So refreshing to hear all this, especially since the office is mostly comprised of people of my age range.
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I had a pleasant conversation about finances with a coworker today. While it's a little too late to retire early for her (currently 63), she did mention that between the small amount of investments they have, her pension, social security, and her paid-off house, she and her husband will be financially independent when she retires in two years. Her only reason for waiting that long is healthcare. She also added that her daughter & son-in-law (around my age) currently max out their retirement accounts and plan to retire early as well.
Hopefully, our conversation was loud enough to reach the ears of nearby coworkers who will hopefully realize that they don't have to be chained to a job until they are 65.
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I had a pleasant conversation about finances with a coworker today. While it's a little too late to retire early for her (currently 63), she did mention that between the small amount of investments they have, her pension, social security, and her paid-off house, she and her husband will be financially independent when she retires in two years. Her only reason for waiting that long is healthcare. She also added that her daughter & son-in-law (around my age) currently max out their retirement accounts and plan to retire early as well.
Healthcare remains the biggest and riskiest wildcard for early US retirees. Great strides have been made, but it's far from rock solid dependability on a 50 year retirement. It's one thing to trust the out of pocket maximums, but another in reality where claims are denied and lost on appeal, to say nothing of how using more cutting-edge methods are covered.
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I had a pleasant conversation about finances with a coworker today. While it's a little too late to retire early for her (currently 63), she did mention that between the small amount of investments they have, her pension, social security, and her paid-off house, she and her husband will be financially independent when she retires in two years. Her only reason for waiting that long is healthcare. She also added that her daughter & son-in-law (around my age) currently max out their retirement accounts and plan to retire early as well.
Healthcare remains the biggest and riskiest wildcard for early US retirees. Great strides have been made, but it's far from rock solid dependability on a 50 year retirement. It's one thing to trust the out of pocket maximums, but another in reality where claims are denied and lost on appeal, to say nothing of how using more cutting-edge methods are covered.
Even for normal age retirees, healthcare is a huge gamble. Sure Medicare covers a lot, but adding on any of the alphabet soup can get prohibitively expensive fast.
I have floated the idea a few times, so I know that the wife is not a fan of the idea, but I would very much like to geo-arbitrage in retirement simply because of healthcare. She has some belief that other countries are incredibly dangerous, and she likes being close to family.
But who knows what the landscape will look like in 15 years?
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I had a pleasant conversation about finances with a coworker today. While it's a little too late to retire early for her (currently 63), she did mention that between the small amount of investments they have, her pension, social security, and her paid-off house, she and her husband will be financially independent when she retires in two years. Her only reason for waiting that long is healthcare. She also added that her daughter & son-in-law (around my age) currently max out their retirement accounts and plan to retire early as well.
Healthcare remains the biggest and riskiest wildcard for early US retirees. Great strides have been made, but it's far from rock solid dependability on a 50 year retirement. It's one thing to trust the out of pocket maximums, but another in reality where claims are denied and lost on appeal, to say nothing of how using more cutting-edge methods are covered.
Even for normal age retirees, healthcare is a huge gamble. Sure Medicare covers a lot, but adding on any of the alphabet soup can get prohibitively expensive fast.
I have floated the idea a few times, so I know that the wife is not a fan of the idea, but I would very much like to geo-arbitrage in retirement simply because of healthcare. She has some belief that other countries are incredibly dangerous, and she likes being close to family.
But who knows what the landscape will look like in 15 years?
Are you my father?
My dad wants to be somewhere else. My mom thinks it's dangerous to leave the US.
Plus, my dad's jokes are real groaners.
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My mom thinks it's dangerous to leave the US.
Isn't it sad how so many people live lives dominated by fear?
One year I did the math on US troops in Iraq during the occupation. Turned out that 6 million North Carolinians with nothing but a car and possibly a cellphone or few beers killed more Americans than 17 million Iraqis, some of whom were really trying to kill Americans with guns, bombs and artillery.
Or that, recently, more people are killed by toddlers with guns in the US than are killed by Islamic terrorists.
Facts tend to put risks in perspective. Overly fearful people tend to ignore facts. :(
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I had a pleasant conversation about finances with a coworker today. While it's a little too late to retire early for her (currently 63), she did mention that between the small amount of investments they have, her pension, social security, and her paid-off house, she and her husband will be financially independent when she retires in two years. Her only reason for waiting that long is healthcare. She also added that her daughter & son-in-law (around my age) currently max out their retirement accounts and plan to retire early as well.
Healthcare remains the biggest and riskiest wildcard for early US retirees. Great strides have been made, but it's far from rock solid dependability on a 50 year retirement. It's one thing to trust the out of pocket maximums, but another in reality where claims are denied and lost on appeal, to say nothing of how using more cutting-edge methods are covered.
Even for normal age retirees, healthcare is a huge gamble. Sure Medicare covers a lot, but adding on any of the alphabet soup can get prohibitively expensive fast.
I have floated the idea a few times, so I know that the wife is not a fan of the idea, but I would very much like to geo-arbitrage in retirement simply because of healthcare. She has some belief that other countries are incredibly dangerous, and she likes being close to family.
But who knows what the landscape will look like in 15 years?
Are you my father?
My dad wants to be somewhere else. My mom thinks it's dangerous to leave the US.
Plus, my dad's jokes are real groaners.
Are you five months old? If so, I am impressed by your use of technology at such a young age, but your mother and I are trying not to introduce too much reliance on screens so young.
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I had a pleasant conversation about finances with a coworker today. While it's a little too late to retire early for her (currently 63), she did mention that between the small amount of investments they have, her pension, social security, and her paid-off house, she and her husband will be financially independent when she retires in two years. Her only reason for waiting that long is healthcare. She also added that her daughter & son-in-law (around my age) currently max out their retirement accounts and plan to retire early as well.
Healthcare remains the biggest and riskiest wildcard for early US retirees. Great strides have been made, but it's far from rock solid dependability on a 50 year retirement. It's one thing to trust the out of pocket maximums, but another in reality where claims are denied and lost on appeal, to say nothing of how using more cutting-edge methods are covered.
Even for normal age retirees, healthcare is a huge gamble. Sure Medicare covers a lot, but adding on any of the alphabet soup can get prohibitively expensive fast.
I have floated the idea a few times, so I know that the wife is not a fan of the idea, but I would very much like to geo-arbitrage in retirement simply because of healthcare. She has some belief that other countries are incredibly dangerous, and she likes being close to family.
But who knows what the landscape will look like in 15 years?
Are you my father?
My dad wants to be somewhere else. My mom thinks it's dangerous to leave the US.
Plus, my dad's jokes are real groaners.
Are you five months old? If so, I am impressed by your use of technology at such a young age, but your mother and I are trying not to introduce too much reliance on screens so young.
I'm younger than my avatar makes me look, but, uh... I guess you're not my father.
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So I'm in Starbucks (working; note: gift card) a couple months ago. This guy is staring at me for a while, then comes up and says, "I don't want this to sound awkward, but you look a lot like my father did at your age". I told him that I did have a son, and asked if he was visiting from the future. Perhaps we'd better start studying now so that we know what questions to ask the time travelers when they do show up.
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My mom thinks it's dangerous to leave the US.
Many of us who live outside the US think that the US is a very dangerous place to live. Way too many people carrying guns, frequent school shootings, etc.
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My mom thinks it's dangerous to leave the US.
Many of us who live outside the US think that the US is a very dangerous place to live. Way too many people carrying guns, frequent school shootings, etc.
Exactly my thoughts every time an American asks me "But how's the safety in [foreign place that's not destructed by war]?"
I also find it extremely interesting how many people report on their travels with "[insert any city/country] was a great city, felt very safe!", like that's part of your holiday pleasure evaluation?
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My mom thinks it's dangerous to leave the US.
Many of us who live outside the US think that the US is a very dangerous place to live. Way too many people carrying guns, frequent school shootings, etc.
Exactly my thoughts every time an American asks me "But how's the safety in [foreign place that's not destructed by war]?"
I also find it extremely interesting how many people report on their travels with "[insert any city/country] was a great city, felt very safe!", like that's part of your holiday pleasure evaluation?
I caught some serious shade last summer for taking my kid to Roatan on vacation (not on a cruise). Yes, it's Honduras, but no, it's not a war zone. No fewer than three people told me that they'd never go because they couldn't take their guns and a third told me that I should have my kid taken away for taking him there. He was going to freaking dolphin trainer camp, FFS. How many kids would love to do that?
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My mom thinks it's dangerous to leave the US.
Many of us who live outside the US think that the US is a very dangerous place to live. Way too many people carrying guns, frequent school shootings, etc.
Exactly my thoughts every time an American asks me "But how's the safety in [foreign place that's not destructed by war]?"
I also find it extremely interesting how many people report on their travels with "[insert any city/country] was a great city, felt very safe!", like that's part of your holiday pleasure evaluation?
We are looking into a Caribbean vacation next year, and I think it'd be a better experience and a better use of credit card rewards points to only use points for the flight, then to just pay out of pocket for an AirBnB. She would much rather go to a resort (or take a cruise) because she thinks it's somehow unsafe to have some semblance of living like a local.
We might be confined to domestic vacations for the rest of our lives.
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My mom thinks it's dangerous to leave the US.
Many of us who live outside the US think that the US is a very dangerous place to live. Way too many people carrying guns, frequent school shootings, etc.
Exactly my thoughts every time an American asks me "But how's the safety in [foreign place that's not destructed by war]?"
I also find it extremely interesting how many people report on their travels with "[insert any city/country] was a great city, felt very safe!", like that's part of your holiday pleasure evaluation?
I guess feeling unsafe would kind of ruin the holiday, but how many places are actually unsafe? I don't feel unsafe very often, not abroad and not at home. I have travelled a lot on my own and of course as a woman you watch your back but nothing bad has ever happened.
I haven't been to the US but several people I know went there and really felt unsafe. A friend of mine took the wrong exit off a road in Miami and ended up in a very rough area where a few white college students in a car were immediately noticed. Nothing happened but they were threatened with a gun and drove back to the main road as fast as they could. They were really really scared, don't think any of them had ever seen a gun irl or had ever been in any kind of fight/violent situation. I have heard several stories like that. There are probably a couple dozen countries in the world that are both safer and have cheaper healthcare than the US.
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I strongly suspect the kind of American who asks "is it safe in [country]" are the same kind of Americans who are scared to come to any large American city. I'm always running into tourists from Iowa or someplace that got on the wrong train and freaked out because they ended up in a "bad" neighborhood, which usually means "nothing actually happened to us but we're scared of black people and therefore felt threatened." Mind you, the same thing happens with tourists from Canada and Finland and etc. because they think the US is like a cross between The Wire, The Sopranos, and Breaking Bad and they're just waiting for a gun battle to break out at any moment.
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My mom thinks it's dangerous to leave the US.
Many of us who live outside the US think that the US is a very dangerous place to live. Way too many people carrying guns, frequent school shootings, etc.
Exactly my thoughts every time an American asks me "But how's the safety in [foreign place that's not destructed by war]?"
I also find it extremely interesting how many people report on their travels with "[insert any city/country] was a great city, felt very safe!", like that's part of your holiday pleasure evaluation?
I guess feeling unsafe would kind of ruin the holiday, but how many places are actually unsafe? I don't feel unsafe very often, not abroad and not at home. I have travelled a lot on my own and of course as a woman you watch your back but nothing bad has ever happened.
Sure feeling unsafe would ruin a trip, but that's exactly where my surprise comes from. I would only mention it if I felt actively unsafe during some part of the trip (e.g. your Miami-example).
I spent quite some time in the US (and many other countries) and generally felt very safe, even in some more 'rough' neighbourhoods that I frequented while living there. The only time I felt actively unsafe was when there was a bunch of homeless junks approaching me and my family in SF. They were shouting at me specifically so I was glad I was with family rather than alone.
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I strongly suspect the kind of American who asks "is it safe in [country]" are the same kind of Americans who are scared to come to any large American city. I'm always running into tourists from Iowa or someplace that got on the wrong train and freaked out because they ended up in a "bad" neighborhood, which usually means "nothing actually happened to us but we're scared of black people and therefore felt threatened." Mind you, the same thing happens with tourists from Canada and Finland and etc. because they think the US is like a cross between The Wire, The Sopranos, and Breaking Bad and they're just waiting for a gun battle to break out at any moment.
This is so true!
Although I don't think they feel threatened, but rather insecure about their position as they are suddenly the minority.
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My mom thinks it's dangerous to leave the US.
Many of us who live outside the US think that the US is a very dangerous place to live. Way too many people carrying guns, frequent school shootings, etc.
(Average) The police of New York (8 million people) kills more people per day than the police of whole Germany (80 million people) - in a year.
In Germany, car traffic kills 10 times more people as get murdered.
The US has 5 times the murder rate.
And in the car country of the world, USA, roughly the same number of people die from gun accidents as car accidents. (30K)
In Germany there are roughly 800 death by guns per year - 90% of them suicides.
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I'm always running into tourists from Iowa or someplace that got on the wrong train and freaked out because they ended up in a "bad" neighborhood, which usually means "nothing actually happened to us but we're scared of black people and therefore felt threatened."
I live on the border of Iowa and Minnesota, some people here can't believe I'm planning to spend the winter in Mexico next year because Mexico is supposedly so dangerous.
First, I will be in Yucatan, the safest state in Mexico with LESS violent crime per capita than Iowa or Minnesota.
Secondly, the National Guard had to be called up in Minnesota TWICE over this past winter to rescue stranded motorists during severe ice and snowstorms. Children were freezing to death in their own backyards. People were dying in their homes from carbon monoxide because furnace vents were being blocked by ice and snow. Blocked dryer vents were causing housefires.
But Mexico is too dangerous???!!!
I also plan to get as much of my medical care as possible while I am down there. Healthcare in Merida is world class quality with a significantly lower price tag.
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And in the car country of the world, USA, roughly the same number of people die from gun accidents as car accidents. (30K)
In Germany there are roughly 800 death by guns per year - 90% of them suicides.
While you have a strong overall overall point, your "gun accidents" number for the USA includes all gun fatalities, most of which are intentional. Unfortunately.
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I think with traveling to a place, people naturally feel more cautious because you make all of these arrangements--place to stay, transportation, etc.--remotely, so it's harder to change course if you arrive there and feel very unsafe.
Also, the rule of law in other countries isn't as strong as we are used to in the US (I know, I know, you can see my opinions about Trump in other threads). But seriously, the culture of bribery, etc., is far more common in other places. And not having the standing of citizenship as we do here.
Finally, when you travel abroad, you stick out as an American. You just do. Different clothes, hair style, behavior. Germany was mentioned in other posts, and I promise the Germans will figure out quickly that you...aren't.
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I think with traveling to a place, people naturally feel more cautious because you make all of these arrangements--place to stay, transportation, etc.--remotely, so it's harder to change course if you arrive there and feel very unsafe.
Also, the rule of law in other countries isn't as strong as we are used to in the US (I know, I know, you can see my opinions about Trump in other threads). But seriously, the culture of bribery, etc., is far more common in other places. And not having the standing of citizenship as we do here.
Finally, when you travel abroad, you stick out as an American. You just do. Different clothes, hair style, behavior. Germany was mentioned in other posts, and I promise the Germans will figure out quickly that you...aren't.
Yeeeeeesss... but... the world is a big place. I would feel pretty unsafe going to Syria. But I think Germans would be pretty surprised if they were told the rule of law isn't as strong there as in America. The Germans would absolutely figure out (probably before you opened your mouth) that you were American and then... what? Shoot you? Seriously, I think Germany is probably one of the safest countries in the world. Is it because they speak a foreign language? (Discounting the fact that many Germans do actually speak excellent English). The UK is pretty safe too - also safer, on average, than America.
Absolutely, some places in the world are not very safe - including extremely unsafe for certain classes of people. But one can't just lump it into "America" and "the entire world" and decide it's not safe to go to Germany just because somewhere else has a civil war on.
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It's fair to pick on Germany from my earlier comment. You are more correct than I.
Other countries mentioned in these posts included Honduras, Mexico, India,...
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I think with traveling to a place, people naturally feel more cautious because you make all of these arrangements--place to stay, transportation, etc.--remotely, so it's harder to change course if you arrive there and feel very unsafe.
Also, the rule of law in other countries isn't as strong as we are used to in the US (I know, I know, you can see my opinions about Trump in other threads). But seriously, the culture of bribery, etc., is far more common in other places. And not having the standing of citizenship as we do here.
Finally, when you travel abroad, you stick out as an American. You just do. Different clothes, hair style, behavior. Germany was mentioned in other posts, and I promise the Germans will figure out quickly that you...aren't.
I agree with this. The question isn't really if a country/destination is merely "safe" it's whether it's safe for tourists. I've travelled to supposedly unsafe South American countries with absolutely no problems because I traveled with locals. The most unsafe I've felt abroad was Paris when a large group of those "free rope bracelet" guys grabbed my wrist and I had to verbally hulk out on them. Another guy pretended to be a stranded Canadian and asked for money. But I bet my experiences would be the exact opposite if I had known someone in Paris and had been traveling to South America alone.
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I think with traveling to a place, people naturally feel more cautious because you make all of these arrangements--place to stay, transportation, etc.--remotely, so it's harder to change course if you arrive there and feel very unsafe.
Also, the rule of law in other countries isn't as strong as we are used to in the US (I know, I know, you can see my opinions about Trump in other threads). But seriously, the culture of bribery, etc., is far more common in other places. And not having the standing of citizenship as we do here.
Finally, when you travel abroad, you stick out as an American. You just do. Different clothes, hair style, behavior. Germany was mentioned in other posts, and I promise the Germans will figure out quickly that you...aren't.
I agree with this. The question isn't really if a country/destination is merely "safe" it's whether it's safe for tourists. I've travelled to supposedly unsafe South American countries with absolutely no problems because I traveled with locals. The most unsafe I've felt abroad was Paris when a large group of those "free rope bracelet" guys grabbed my wrist and I had to verbally hulk out on them. Another guy pretended to be a stranded Canadian and asked for money. But I bet my experiences would be the exact opposite if I had known someone in Paris and had been traveling to South America alone.
TL;DR .... American = sneakers, European = much nicer shoes.
I think the most shocked I've been is when a German grocery checkout clerk loudly castigated me for having 2L pop bottles vertical on the conveyor belt. I still have PTSD when I buy 2L pop bottles :-)
Especially in bigger cities I've often been welcomed or spoken to in English right as I walked in the door.
On the other hand, I apparently was mistaken for a local in Moscow, even though I had a very famous company logo on my work vest.
I guess no one thought that any tourist would be wearing a vest and short sleeve shirt in Moscow in March.
I've worked many places in the world and I've walked places/times that I would not have considered in most US cities. Maybe ignorance is/was bliss, but it worked.
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Not a typical anti-anti-Mustachian story, but I think it sorts of fits here anyway.
Today I received an email from a colleague who told all of us that he will quit his job per 1rst of August (we have a 3 month notice period). He is currently a Java programmer. He will start working as a personal trainer at a fitness studio. Physically his body doesn't look like the typical personal trainer. He also wrote that we soon could stop making jokes about that, because he would also start working in his own consultancy company.
He is currently a father of 2 children. In his younger years, he used to live as a ski bum for half the year and programming/earning money in the other half of the year. I heard him say earlier that that life is no longer an option. But obviously, working as a consultant for himself is now possible. I think he is taking the personal trainer job as a transition job until he gets enough consultancy work.
It sounds like an interesting career change. I'm looking forward to asking him some questions about his motivation and his plans.
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I'm always pleasantly surprised by the number of people I run into who cut their own hair. At least two of my coworkers - one guy with a ponytail who just trims the end off, the other used clippers from Costco a la Mr Money Mustache (https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/30/get-rich-with-the-universal-mens-grooming-device/). I think a couple of other guys shave their heads - a slightly different skill set but less intimidating for many. I wear mine shoulder length and use a half dozen or so tiny rubberbands to get the line straight, when I posted this on Facebook a cousin chimed in that she uses the ponytail method to get a nice layered effect.
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I'm pretty sure I'd do a hack job if I tried to cut my own hair. I have asked DW to cut it every now and then and she does a fine job. What I mostly do is just cut it twice per year at the barber's. Yes, it takes a relaxed employer to allow me to grow my hair out that fair.
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I'm pretty sure I'd do a hack job if I tried to cut my own hair. I have asked DW to cut it every now and then and she does a fine job. What I mostly do is just cut it twice per year at the barber's. Yes, it takes a relaxed employer to allow me to grow my hair out that fair.
It really depends on your style. I'm fine with doing #4 on the sides and working up to a #8 on top. It's a short, manageable haircut that isn't much different from what I'd pay around $15 for at a barber. If I needed it longer on top, I would probably also hack it up.
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I'm pretty sure I'd do a hack job if I tried to cut my own hair. I have asked DW to cut it every now and then and she does a fine job. What I mostly do is just cut it twice per year at the barber's. Yes, it takes a relaxed employer to allow me to grow my hair out that fair.
It really depends on your style. I'm fine with doing #4 on the sides and working up to a #8 on top. It's a short, manageable haircut that isn't much different from what I'd pay around $15 for at a barber. If I needed it longer on top, I would probably also hack it up.
I am down to #2 on the sides and 4 on the top. That way I can go 4 to 6 months before getting another cut.
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I'm pretty sure I'd do a hack job if I tried to cut my own hair. I have asked DW to cut it every now and then and she does a fine job. What I mostly do is just cut it twice per year at the barber's. Yes, it takes a relaxed employer to allow me to grow my hair out that fair.
It really depends on your style. I'm fine with doing #4 on the sides and working up to a #8 on top. It's a short, manageable haircut that isn't much different from what I'd pay around $15 for at a barber. If I needed it longer on top, I would probably also hack it up.
I am down to #2 on the sides and 4 on the top. That way I can go 4 to 6 months before getting another cut.
I'm going bald on top and 3mm on the side. I'm in the comb-over zone, if I let it grow too long, I get witty comments about being afraid of letting go of my hair.
I don't give a hoot though, I just trim it all to 3mm with my own electric cutters. At the shortest length I keep being surprised by the spot at the top, it's still hanging on by too few hairs ;)
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Since we're on the subject of cutting hair, I just cut my MILs hair for the second time ever. What's different this time around is that I splurged on a new pair of scissors. My neighbor at the flip house owns a sharpening business, so I told him what I wanted and bought what he recommended. They are amazing! I decided to really go to town on MIL's hair and it turned out great. It helps that she has lovely silver curls. Curls hide a lot, thankfully.
You have to have humor to survive caretaking a person with ALZ. We regularly ask MIL questions we know the answers to, just to see what she comes up for a response. At the dinner table a few nights later, I told her her haircut looks really nice (shockingly, it does). I asked her who cut her hair. She thought about it and said, "Oh, a professional." DH and I damn near fell off our chairs. Worth the price of the new shears right there.
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Since we're on the subject of cutting hair, I just cut my MILs hair for the second time ever. What's different this time around is that I splurged on a new pair of scissors. My neighbor at the flip house owns a sharpening business, so I told him what I wanted and bought what he recommended. They are amazing! I decided to really go to town on MIL's hair and it turned out great. It helps that she has lovely silver curls. Curls hide a lot, thankfully.
You have to have humor to survive caretaking a person with ALZ. We regularly ask MIL questions we know the answers to, just to see what she comes up for a response. At the dinner table a few nights later, I told her her haircut looks really nice (shockingly, it does). I asked her who cut her hair. She thought about it and said, "Oh, a professional." DH and I damn near fell off our chairs. Worth the price of the new shears right there.
Indeed, good scissors make a big difference. Last time we bought hair cutting scissors, we ordered from China, but the most expensive ones we found. They are nice and sharp.
From my former hairdresser, I learned that professional scissors cost a small fortune, not the kind of investment you would normally do as a private person.
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I'm pretty sure I'd do a hack job if I tried to cut my own hair. I have asked DW to cut it every now and then and she does a fine job. What I mostly do is just cut it twice per year at the barber's. Yes, it takes a relaxed employer to allow me to grow my hair out that fair.
It really depends on your style. I'm fine with doing #4 on the sides and working up to a #8 on top. It's a short, manageable haircut that isn't much different from what I'd pay around $15 for at a barber. If I needed it longer on top, I would probably also hack it up.
I am down to #2 on the sides and 4 on the top. That way I can go 4 to 6 months before getting another cut.
I'm going bald on top and 3mm on the side. I'm in the comb-over zone, if I let it grow too long, I get witty comments about being afraid of letting go of my hair.
I don't give a hoot though, I just trim it all to 3mm with my own electric cutters. At the shortest length I keep being surprised by the spot at the top, it's still hanging on by too few hairs ;)
I used to do that, wife would complain it's too long. So now am at 1/2 on sides, and #2 on top (literally, a shithead. LOL)
Used to cut my own hair, but hated cleaning up, and wasn't professionally clean at the back - my bad hand-eye coordination with the left hand. Easier to pay a few bucks and no cleaning up required. $6/7 haircut coupons FTW!
It works perfect for the hot weather down here in 'Merica's Dong-a-Lago.
My wife bought a pair of professional scissors and started cutting the kids' hair in the backyard after watching some YouTube tutorial videos.
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From my former hairdresser, I learned that professional scissors cost a small fortune, not the kind of investment you would normally do as a private person.
You must people who do a lot of sewing.
Not only will they buy great scissors but they will maim you if you use them for anything else.
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If my sister lived down here I would have her exclusively cut my hair and color it, she does a really good job. She is self taught from doing her own hair. The other thing I would have my sister do, is do my yard. She used to work for a plant nursery and also used to take care of my Mom's yard and just does a good job. We are twins and while my sister and my Dad have green thumbs, I'm this close to hopeless. I think it's while I enjoy seeing plants grow, I don't enjoy working in the yard, take short cuts, forget, etc, while she actually seems to enjoy it. ps cutting my own hair is not an option. It is stick straight and even some pros have a hard time with it.
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From my former hairdresser, I learned that professional scissors cost a small fortune, not the kind of investment you would normally do as a private person.
You must people who do a lot of sewing.
Not only will they buy great scissors but they will maim you if you use them for anything else.
Funny, the sharpening guy said that was a myth. Scissors get dull based on use. If you have designated sewing scissors, the get very little use typically, so they stay sharp.
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From my former hairdresser, I learned that professional scissors cost a small fortune, not the kind of investment you would normally do as a private person.
You must people who do a lot of sewing.
Not only will they buy great scissors but they will maim you if you use them for anything else.
Funny, the sharpening guy said that was a myth. Scissors get dull based on use. If you have designated sewing scissors, the get very little use typically, so they stay sharp.
Right, that's exactly why I'd be upset if someone was using my nice sharp sewing scissors to cut up their old credit cards - they are dulling my good scissors, when we have a perfectly functional cheap pair for that sort of thing. Then I'll have to pay to have them sharpened, vs with the crappy pair just living with it because they don't need to be sharp.
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From my former hairdresser, I learned that professional scissors cost a small fortune, not the kind of investment you would normally do as a private person.
You must people who do a lot of sewing.
Not only will they buy great scissors but they will maim you if you use them for anything else.
Funny, the sharpening guy said that was a myth. Scissors get dull based on use. If you have designated sewing scissors, the get very little use typically, so they stay sharp.
Right, that's exactly why I'd be upset if someone was using my nice sharp sewing scissors to cut up their old credit cards - they are dulling my good scissors, when we have a perfectly functional cheap pair for that sort of thing. Then I'll have to pay to have them sharpened, vs with the crappy pair just living with it because they don't need to be sharp.
Yup.
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From my former hairdresser, I learned that professional scissors cost a small fortune, not the kind of investment you would normally do as a private person.
You must people who do a lot of sewing.
Not only will they buy great scissors but they will maim you if you use them for anything else.
Funny, the sharpening guy said that was a myth. Scissors get dull based on use. If you have designated sewing scissors, the get very little use typically, so they stay sharp.
Right, that's exactly why I'd be upset if someone was using my nice sharp sewing scissors to cut up their old credit cards - they are dulling my good scissors, when we have a perfectly functional cheap pair for that sort of thing. Then I'll have to pay to have them sharpened, vs with the crappy pair just living with it because they don't need to be sharp.
Yup.
So what is the myth? That the sewer will maim the mis-user?
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So what is the myth? That the sewer will maim the mis-user?
Oh, I don't think it's a myth. My mother was pretty serious about sewing scissors only being used for fabric.
Heh, I originally misread your comment as a reference to wastewater, not to sewing :P
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So what is the myth? That the sewer will maim the mis-user?
Oh, I don't think it's a myth. My mother was pretty serious about sewing scissors only being used for fabric.
Heh, I originally misread your comment as a reference to wastewater, not to sewing :P
https://me.me/i/eeabric-cutting-tools-donot-use-on-anything-but-fabric-ori-4935009 (https://me.me/i/eeabric-cutting-tools-donot-use-on-anything-but-fabric-ori-4935009)
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From my former hairdresser, I learned that professional scissors cost a small fortune, not the kind of investment you would normally do as a private person.
You must people who do a lot of sewing.
Not only will they buy great scissors but they will maim you if you use them for anything else.
Funny, the sharpening guy said that was a myth. Scissors get dull based on use. If you have designated sewing scissors, the get very little use typically, so they stay sharp.
Right, that's exactly why I'd be upset if someone was using my nice sharp sewing scissors to cut up their old credit cards - they are dulling my good scissors, when we have a perfectly functional cheap pair for that sort of thing. Then I'll have to pay to have them sharpened, vs with the crappy pair just living with it because they don't need to be sharp.
Yup.
So what is the myth? That the sewer will maim the mis-user?
No myth. You use my needlepoint scissors for ANYTHING other than their intended use, and I will stab you.
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No myth. You use my needlepoint scissors for ANYTHING other than their intended use, and I will stab you.
But Only with the designated stabbing knife. Don’t you dare use my chef knife.
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No myth. You use my needlepoint scissors for ANYTHING other than their intended use, and I will stab you.
But Only with the designated stabbing knife. Don’t you dare use my chef knife.
I love you, dc! You made me really, really laugh. Thanks.
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No myth. You use my needlepoint scissors for ANYTHING other than their intended use, and I will stab you.
But Only with the designated stabbing knife. Don’t you dare use my chef knife.
Of course! Never any question about that. I'd hit bone which would probably mess up your chef knife.
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No myth. You use my needlepoint scissors for ANYTHING other than their intended use, and I will stab you.
But Only with the designated stabbing knife. Don’t you dare use my chef knife.
Of course! Never any question about that. I'd hit bone which would probably mess up your chef knife.
With proper technique, a boning knife would be acceotable
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No myth. You use my needlepoint scissors for ANYTHING other than their intended use, and I will stab you.
But Only with the designated stabbing knife. Don’t you dare use my chef knife.
Of course! Never any question about that. I'd hit bone which would probably mess up your chef knife.
With proper technique, a boning knife would be acceotable
Really, a true mustachian would learn how to sharpen their own scissors and knives. Then you can stab anyone you want with the nearest tool and sharpen it when you are done.
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No myth. You use my needlepoint scissors for ANYTHING other than their intended use, and I will stab you.
But Only with the designated stabbing knife. Don’t you dare use my chef knife.
Of course! Never any question about that. I'd hit bone which would probably mess up your chef knife.
With proper technique, a boning knife would be acceotable
Really, a true mustachian would learn how to sharpen their own scissors and knives. Then you can stab anyone you want with the nearest tool and sharpen it when you are done.
Cutting used tin foil can improve the edge on dull scissors.
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No myth. You use my needlepoint scissors for ANYTHING other than their intended use, and I will stab you.
But Only with the designated stabbing knife. Don’t you dare use my chef knife.
Of course! Never any question about that. I'd hit bone which would probably mess up your chef knife.
With proper technique, a boning knife would be acceotable
Really, a true mustachian would learn how to sharpen their own scissors and knives. Then you can stab anyone you want with the nearest tool and sharpen it when you are done.
Cutting used tin foil can improve the edge on dull scissors.
Does cutting the flesh of the damned have any positive effects on dull scissors?
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No myth. You use my needlepoint scissors for ANYTHING other than their intended use, and I will stab you.
But Only with the designated stabbing knife. Don’t you dare use my chef knife.
Of course! Never any question about that. I'd hit bone which would probably mess up your chef knife.
With proper technique, a boning knife would be acceotable
Really, a true mustachian would learn how to sharpen their own scissors and knives. Then you can stab anyone you want with the nearest tool and sharpen it when you are done.
Cutting used tin foil can improve the edge on dull scissors.
Does cutting the flesh of the damned have any positive effects on dull scissors?
No, because of the corrosive effect of oils and acids in the body. Best to sharpen it beforehand.
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Today, a coworker invited me to go with her to a hip new ice cream shop that just opened up.
They were selling tiny little popsicles with custom toppings for $5.50 each.
My coworker and I had an awkward little interaction where I told her I wasn't going to get anything. I didn't want to seem snooty by telling here there was no way I blowing $5.50 on a popsicle, that I thought it was a ridiculous waste of money. So I acted like none of the popsicles interested me, which only made her ask me many questions about what flavors I liked in order to try to find me a suitable popsicle.
Needless to say, after an awkward exchange, we left without me getting a popsicle. (She got one, though.)
Then we stopped by a boutique, where my coworker selected several handmade items for purchase, spending $50, while I walked around the store, killing time.
This is a coworker who couldn't afford to attend her own out-of-state graduation (she did her degree online) a month ago.
Wrong thread... you are looking for the normal Overheard at Work thread, not the Anti-Antimustachian thread.
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One of my younger co.workers told is during lunch that had he his car full of parts. He had booked the mechanic boot at work for the whole evening and he will try to change his brakes and do a lot of other stuff himself. It will be the first time he tries this and he has studied youtube. I hope he will succeed. New life skill.
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It's great that your employer allows you to use their facilities @Linea_Norway ! Wish we had something like that.
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It's great that your employer allows you to use their facilities @Linea_Norway ! Wish we had something like that.
There are some garages where you can rent workspace to tinker with your car. A quick Google reveals that there is one close to me for €12 an hour, or €15 if you also want to use their tools.
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Someone at work is thinking of getting a new car to replace their very old beater. One guy suggested a truck with a full cab. I interjected and said if you get a truck with a full cab then think about it first: what do you haul, why do you need it? The guy was receptive to that line of thinking. I then told him if he gets a truck all his non-truck owning friends will just pester him to borrow it, lol.
I'm one of those people who pester truck owning friends to borrow one. What's kind of ironic is that one friend who has a truck has helped me haul stuff more than he has used it for himself, lol.
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Co-worker thinking of borrowing from 401(k) to pay off house, then pay himself back.
Maybe it's a market timing thing. Maybe he just hates the payment that much.
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Co-worker thinking of borrowing from 401(k) to pay off house, then pay himself back.
Maybe it's a market timing thing. Maybe he just hates the payment that much.
Depending on his interest rate, this is either really smart or really moronic. Do you know if he bought before the housing bubble burst when interest rates were ridiculous?
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Co-worker thinking of borrowing from 401(k) to pay off house, then pay himself back.
Maybe it's a market timing thing. Maybe he just hates the payment that much.
Depending on his interest rate, this is either really smart or really moronic. Do you know if he bought before the housing bubble burst when interest rates were ridiculous?
Does he understand that he will most likely be unable to switch jobs unless and until he replays the 401k loan? I had one for nine months, for better reasons than his, and I hated every minute of it.
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Co-worker thinking of borrowing from 401(k) to pay off house, then pay himself back.
Maybe it's a market timing thing. Maybe he just hates the payment that much.
Depending on his interest rate, this is either really smart or really moronic. Do you know if he bought before the housing bubble burst when interest rates were ridiculous?
Does he understand that he will most likely be unable to switch jobs unless and until he replays the 401k loan? I had one for nine months, for better reasons than his, and I hated every minute of it.
Depends on the plan and employer. The Boy did not have to pay off his 401(K) loan before resigning.
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I think with traveling to a place, people naturally feel more cautious because you make all of these arrangements--place to stay, transportation, etc.--remotely, so it's harder to change course if you arrive there and feel very unsafe.
Also, the rule of law in other countries isn't as strong as we are used to in the US (I know, I know, you can see my opinions about Trump in other threads). But seriously, the culture of bribery, etc., is far more common in other places. And not having the standing of citizenship as we do here.
Finally, when you travel abroad, you stick out as an American. You just do. Different clothes, hair style, behavior. Germany was mentioned in other posts, and I promise the Germans will figure out quickly that you...aren't.
You stick out more as an American if you are overweight and wear big white running shoes. I traveled with a boyfriend who: a. was not overweight; b. wore black tennis shoes; and c. spoke French fluently. The French thought he was a native.
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Does he understand that he will most likely be unable to switch jobs unless and until he replays the 401k loan? I had one for nine months, for better reasons than his, and I hated every minute of it.
The rules on this changed slightly. Now, you have until the next tax return you file to repay it.
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Finally, when you travel abroad, you stick out as an American. You just do. Different clothes, hair style, behavior. Germany was mentioned in other posts, and I promise the Germans will figure out quickly that you...aren't.
It just depends on the person.
Me? Anyone within sight of me will say, "He's an American." Won't give it a moment's thought.
My wife? She blends into whatever culture she's in. The Germans thought she was German. The Turks thought she was Turkish. The Russians in Kazakhstan thought she was Russian. Ethiopians thought she was Ethiopian until she got within about 10 feet of them. Was fun to watch their eyes bug out with a "Where did that white woman come from?" expression on their face! She got off the plane after 6 weeks in China and *I* thought she was Chinese.
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I think with traveling to a place, people naturally feel more cautious because you make all of these arrangements--place to stay, transportation, etc.--remotely, so it's harder to change course if you arrive there and feel very unsafe.
@talltexan , exactly how is that different from me going on Travelocity and making travel arrangements for here in the USA?
Also, the rule of law in other countries isn't as strong as we are used to in the US (I know, I know, you can see my opinions about Trump in other threads). But seriously, the culture of bribery, etc., is far more common in other places.
I'm a Mustachian. **I've** got money. Bribes can be a really convenient way of making problems go away.
And not having the standing of citizenship as we do here.
That may actually be an advantage. Americans bring money into the economy and they stop coming if Americans get hurt or inconvenienced. Ever pay attention to how other countries treat their own citizens?
Now, I wouldn't recommend some countries for Americans to go to -- but for most of them I wouldn't recommend anyone be there.
I think the fears are overblown.
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I think with traveling to a place, people naturally feel more cautious because you make all of these arrangements--place to stay, transportation, etc.--remotely, so it's harder to change course if you arrive there and feel very unsafe.
@talltexan , exactly how is that different from me going on Travelocity and making travel arrangements for here in the USA?
Also, the rule of law in other countries isn't as strong as we are used to in the US (I know, I know, you can see my opinions about Trump in other threads). But seriously, the culture of bribery, etc., is far more common in other places.
I'm a Mustachian. **I've** got money. Bribes can be a really convenient way of making problems go away.
And not having the standing of citizenship as we do here.
That may actually be an advantage. Americans bring money into the economy and they stop coming if Americans get hurt or inconvenienced. Ever pay attention to how other countries treat their own citizens?
Now, I wouldn't recommend some countries for Americans to go to -- but for most of them I wouldn't recommend anyone be there.
I think the fears are overblown.
I agree, and it leads to lost opportunities. My mom had discussed taking me and my children on a river cruise from Paris to Normandy. It would have been perfect, as my father was beginning to have trouble with much walking, and my mother and the kids and I could have explored at the various stops along the way. My mom had a lot of fear (she watched a lot of cable TV news) about certain minorities/crime/terrorism in France. We did not go.
Fast forward nine years. My father died, and my mother died. I took my college-age children to Europe two summers in a row. We were smart about where we stayed (the Airbnb reviews generally cover neighborhood safety in the comments section), and we were careful not to get pick pocketed. What amazing experiences we had, traveling together! We were all perfectly safe, and travel is a very broadening, educational experience. But it is not for everyone, and if you are afraid of it, and it makes you nervous, it is not for you. I have also enjoyed the British countryside through my 65-inch TV watching BBC shows from my living room!
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Why would people worry about safety in Europe? Everywhere I have been, I have felt safer than most cities in the USA, and probably even safer than where I live in small-town-USA. Be intelligent and keep your wits about you, of course. We just took our grade school kids to Europe and had a blast.
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Why would people worry about safety in Europe? Everywhere I have been, I have felt safer than most cities in the USA, and probably even safer than where I live in small-town-USA. Be intelligent and keep your wits about you, of course. We just took our grade school kids to Europe and had a blast.
The statistics agree with you.
As someone who has lived in both, it's simply incomparable. That said, loud and oblivious tourists are easy pickings in the tourist hotspots (both in the US and Europe) just because they tend to be carrying more cash/documents/etc., and often aren't very aware of themselves or their surroundings. Be quiet, be aware, you generally won't have issues.
I know more people who have been mugged in the US than in Europe, and that's despite only spending 2 years in the US.
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Also, the rule of law in other countries isn't as strong as we are used to in the US (I know, I know, you can see my opinions about Trump in other threads). But seriously, the culture of bribery, etc., is far more common in other places.
I'm a Mustachian. **I've** got money. Bribes can be a really convenient way of making problems go away.
[/quote]
I used to work with folks in Mexico/Brazil. We had an onsite and something they brought up when talking about cultural differences was that they loved how much people here obey the law.
I thought they were nuts. But in talking to them, they talked about how systemic corruption was within both countries - I was kind of surprised but their comments suddenly made a lot more sense in that context.
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Also, the rule of law in other countries isn't as strong as we are used to in the US (I know, I know, you can see my opinions about Trump in other threads). But seriously, the culture of bribery, etc., is far more common in other places.
I used to work with folks in Mexico/Brazil. We had an onsite and something they brought up when talking about cultural differences was that they loved how much people here obey the law.
I thought they were nuts. But in talking to them, they talked about how systemic corruption was within both countries - I was kind of surprised but their comments suddenly made a lot more sense in that context.
Ugh, wife just studied for her citizenship quiz (she passed) and there was a question about “what is the rule of law?” Made me real embarrassed at our current situation... if anyone knows any scholarship on what makes counties more or less corrupt I’m very interested to read a good summary
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I used to work with folks in Mexico/Brazil. We had an onsite and something they brought up when talking about cultural differences was that they loved how much people here obey the law.
I thought they were nuts. But in talking to them, they talked about how systemic corruption was within both countries - I was kind of surprised but their comments suddenly made a lot more sense in that context.
My boss used to work in Italy. Lovely country with a great value for social interaction and food is a means, not just sustenance.
The downside is the mob control in almost every part of the business world. He worked for a multinational on-site but when he had to purchase something it had to go through a maze of local channels taking months before it was delivered.
Since he also had connections with other vendors from previous jobs who has no issues with delivery at his location, he almost lost his job.
Appearently this maze of channels helped keep several large families fed but when he purchased from an outside vendor the money left the community never to return. I get that reasoning but it also makes the local products twice as expensive as the international market at the time.
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Also, the rule of law in other countries isn't as strong as we are used to in the US (I know, I know, you can see my opinions about Trump in other threads). But seriously, the culture of bribery, etc., is far more common in other places.
I used to work with folks in Mexico/Brazil. We had an onsite and something they brought up when talking about cultural differences was that they loved how much people here obey the law.
I thought they were nuts. But in talking to them, they talked about how systemic corruption was within both countries - I was kind of surprised but their comments suddenly made a lot more sense in that context.
Ugh, wife just studied for her citizenship quiz (she passed) and there was a question about “what is the rule of law?” Made me real embarrassed at our current situation... if anyone knows any scholarship on what makes counties more or less corrupt I’m very interested to read a good summary
It is not about counties per se, and I am repeating myself, but "The Dictator's Handbook - why bad behavior is almost always good politics" is a must read. If your library does not have it, complain. That book should be in a dozen in every single library.
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Also, the rule of law in other countries isn't as strong as we are used to in the US (I know, I know, you can see my opinions about Trump in other threads). But seriously, the culture of bribery, etc., is far more common in other places. And not having the standing of citizenship as we do here.
Citation needed.
There are just as many countries with stronger rule of law as there are with weaker rule of law. Half of Europe is stronger than the US (some places much stronger), but then the other half is weaker. Asia is a very mixed bag, towards less rule of law to be fair. The US is middle of the road, there are many issues with the judicial system that we often laugh about where I live.
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Also, the rule of law in other countries isn't as strong as we are used to in the US (I know, I know, you can see my opinions about Trump in other threads). But seriously, the culture of bribery, etc., is far more common in other places. And not having the standing of citizenship as we do here.
Citation needed.
There are just as many countries with stronger rule of law as there are with weaker rule of law. Half of Europe is stronger than the US (some places much stronger), but then the other half is weaker. Asia is a very mixed bag, towards less rule of law to be fair. The US is middle of the road, there are many issues with the judicial system that we often laugh about where I live.
Very fair comments.
In the USA, the rule of law is for people without lots of money. Lots of money tends to smooth things, either making them go away completely or getting them minimized to a nuisance instead of a life-changing sentence in prison. And, of course, lots of money makes it harder for the prosecution to get a conviction when they actually decide to go after someone with lots of money.
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Also, the rule of law in other countries isn't as strong as we are used to in the US (I know, I know, you can see my opinions about Trump in other threads). But seriously, the culture of bribery, etc., is far more common in other places. And not having the standing of citizenship as we do here.
Citation needed.
There are just as many countries with stronger rule of law as there are with weaker rule of law. Half of Europe is stronger than the US (some places much stronger), but then the other half is weaker. Asia is a very mixed bag, towards less rule of law to be fair. The US is middle of the road, there are many issues with the judicial system that we often laugh about where I live.
Very fair comments.
In the USA, the rule of law is for people without lots of money. Lots of money tends to smooth things, either making them go away completely or getting them minimized to a nuisance instead of a life-changing sentence in prison. And, of course, lots of money makes it harder for the prosecution to get a conviction when they actually decide to go after someone with lots of money.
Some of us in other countries also don't have to worry about our police shooting us dead.
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Also, the rule of law in other countries isn't as strong as we are used to in the US (I know, I know, you can see my opinions about Trump in other threads). But seriously, the culture of bribery, etc., is far more common in other places. And not having the standing of citizenship as we do here.
Citation needed.
There are just as many countries with stronger rule of law as there are with weaker rule of law. Half of Europe is stronger than the US (some places much stronger), but then the other half is weaker. Asia is a very mixed bag, towards less rule of law to be fair. The US is middle of the road, there are many issues with the judicial system that we often laugh about where I live.
It's fair to ask for this. I went to the Rule of Law project, and found a report here: https://worldjusticeproject.org/our-work/research-and-data/wjp-rule-law-index-2019#&gid=1&pid=2 (https://worldjusticeproject.org/our-work/research-and-data/wjp-rule-law-index-2019#&gid=1&pid=2)
it appears to be updated annually.
And, indeed, they rank the US highly, but not at the top, and it's moving lower rapidly. I wonder why.
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During a TSP seminar that we made our new hires sit though (they were hired 4 days ago).
New Hire: I want to pay off my student loans ASAP.
Me: You know we have a program that pays some of that.
New Hire: What???
Me: E-mails some not crusty old hair bags and gives new hire the forms that she needs to look at.
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Me: E-mails some not crusty old hair bags and gives new hire the forms that she needs to look at.
Wow, these still exist in the bureaucratic wild?!
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During a TSP seminar that we made our new hires sit though (they were hired 4 days ago).
New Hire: I want to pay off my student loans ASAP.
Me: You know we have a program that pays some of that.
New Hire: What???
Me: E-mails some not crusty old hair bags and gives new hire the forms that she needs to look at.
I'm kind of jealous that you have a TSP seminar. I somehow never got assigned to a new employee orientation class (shh....if TPTB find out I'll have to take it even though I earned my 10 year pin last month). I hear that they don't really talk much about the TSP, but did mention the mass transportation benefits program that I wish I'd known about 10 years ago.
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During a TSP seminar that we made our new hires sit though (they were hired 4 days ago).
New Hire: I want to pay off my student loans ASAP.
Me: You know we have a program that pays some of that.
New Hire: What???
Me: E-mails some not crusty old hair bags and gives new hire the forms that she needs to look at.
I'm kind of jealous that you have a TSP seminar. I somehow never got assigned to a new employee orientation class (shh....if TPTB find out I'll have to take it even though I earned my 10 year pin last month). I hear that they don't really talk much about the TSP, but did mention the mass transportation benefits program that I wish I'd known about 10 years ago.
The Seminar was general for all workers not just new hires, we just told them to sit in the conference room and listen now. (It was a webinar in my office as it is held in DC but boradcast via skype to "the field")
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A broker in my country has a promotion that if you buy some stocks with them, they give you €100. You can even buy a cheap stock and sell it as soon as you get the bonus money. I got some (young, 20s) coworkers to sign up and now they're super excited about their little stock wins/losses. They've started asking questions about how to invest their free €100 so it can make them rich lol :p I'm working on nudging them to index funds. The €10 investment in 'cheap random stock' turned out to be a good way to nudge them to some free money and an account in the first place though.
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mostly PTF, but I do know an older co-worker who is looking longingly at retirement. We had a brief but delightful conversation in which I explained you don't need to work full time (or at all) until you reach the age at which you intend to collect social security as long you've met the 40 credit requirements and have something to live off of in the mean time. The next morning the co-worker let me know they'd done their homework overnight and will be cutting back on hours in the near future and retiring as soon as they can get their spouse onboard. We agreed to a pact of secrecy about his (and my) timelines to FIRE. I'm going to miss him when he's gone.
Hmmm, maybe he'll miss you when you're gone. You going first is a fine result as well.
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mostly PTF, but I do know an older co-worker who is looking longingly at retirement. We had a brief but delightful conversation in which I explained you don't need to work full time (or at all) until you reach the age at which you intend to collect social security as long you've met the 40 credit requirements and have something to live off of in the mean time. The next morning the co-worker let me know they'd done their homework overnight and will be cutting back on hours in the near future and retiring as soon as they can get their spouse onboard. We agreed to a pact of secrecy about his (and my) timelines to FIRE. I'm going to miss him when he's gone.
Fantastic, you have made them see the light!
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A broker in my country has a promotion that if you buy some stocks with them, they give you €100. You can even buy a cheap stock and sell it as soon as you get the bonus money.
Thanks! Had seen this but didn't look into it as I expected there to be a catch or something. Will have a look now.
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One of my mature coworkers (I am bad at guessing ages, but he could be around 50-ish), proudly told me yesterday that his car is 16 years old. When I asked about the mileage, I found out it had driven a lot shorter than our 10 year old car. But still...
I also heard a conversation at lunch where people talked about "to good to go" apps and taking home bags of peanuts that are over the date and still edible. They all sounded interested and positive to eating food when it is still edible, despite the date on it.
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I also heard a conversation at lunch where people talked about "to good to go" apps and taking home bags of peanuts that are over the date and still edible. They all sounded interested and positive to eating food when it is still edible, despite the date on it.
I've never heard of this. Does anyone know if the US has any of these programs?
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A broker in my country has a promotion that if you buy some stocks with them, they give you €100. You can even buy a cheap stock and sell it as soon as you get the bonus money.
Thanks! Had seen this but didn't look into it as I expected there to be a catch or something. Will have a look now.
Great! Maybe I should also cross-post it in the Dutch thread.
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A broker in my country has a promotion that if you buy some stocks with them, they give you €100. You can even buy a cheap stock and sell it as soon as you get the bonus money.
Thanks! Had seen this but didn't look into it as I expected there to be a catch or something. Will have a look now.
Great! Maybe I should also cross-post it in the Dutch thread.
I think you should!
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mostly PTF, but I do know an older co-worker who is looking longingly at retirement. We had a brief but delightful conversation in which I explained you don't need to work full time (or at all) until you reach the age at which you intend to collect social security as long you've met the 40 credit requirements and have something to live off of in the mean time. The next morning the co-worker let me know they'd done their homework overnight and will be cutting back on hours in the near future and retiring as soon as they can get their spouse onboard. We agreed to a pact of secrecy about his (and my) timelines to FIRE. I'm going to miss him when he's gone.
Hmmm, maybe he'll miss you when you're gone. You going first is a fine result as well.
That would be fun (I'm the second youngest in the office), but I think the info I provided knocked a few years off his time-line. He was pretty much only working because he thought he had to inorder to be able to claim SS at the older age.
Whether it's because of SS or just not knowing how much you need to retire, I've heard a number of stories like this where someone finds out that they could already be retired. That's got to be some of the best but also most unsettling news you can get.
"Wait, I can retire right now? Horray!"
"Wait, I didn't need to work for the last 3 years? Oh..."
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Coworker and I recently had a discussion comparing our real estate investments and discussing savings rate. They’re planning to buy two more rental properties by the end of the year. We want to buy one more. Because we’re expats, we also talked about the best countries in which to buy property. They favour south east Asia. I favour my home country. It was fun and added an interesting layer to the discussion.
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mostly PTF, but I do know an older co-worker who is looking longingly at retirement. We had a brief but delightful conversation in which I explained you don't need to work full time (or at all) until you reach the age at which you intend to collect social security as long you've met the 40 credit requirements and have something to live off of in the mean time. The next morning the co-worker let me know they'd done their homework overnight and will be cutting back on hours in the near future and retiring as soon as they can get their spouse onboard. We agreed to a pact of secrecy about his (and my) timelines to FIRE. I'm going to miss him when he's gone.
Hmmm, maybe he'll miss you when you're gone. You going first is a fine result as well.
That would be fun (I'm the second youngest in the office), but I think the info I provided knocked a few years off his time-line. He was pretty much only working because he thought he had to inorder to be able to claim SS at the older age.
Whether it's because of SS or just not knowing how much you need to retire, I've heard a number of stories like this where someone finds out that they could already be retired. That's got to be some of the best but also most unsettling news you can get.
"Wait, I can retire right now? Horray!"
"Wait, I didn't need to work for the last 3 years? Oh..."
Agreed - I found it mind blowing that he was that close and hadn't done any research / planning. It made me want to run around the office shouting "wake up people"
Beware of awakening the sheeple. https://xkcd.com/1013/
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mostly PTF, but I do know an older co-worker who is looking longingly at retirement. We had a brief but delightful conversation in which I explained you don't need to work full time (or at all) until you reach the age at which you intend to collect social security as long you've met the 40 credit requirements and have something to live off of in the mean time. The next morning the co-worker let me know they'd done their homework overnight and will be cutting back on hours in the near future and retiring as soon as they can get their spouse onboard. We agreed to a pact of secrecy about his (and my) timelines to FIRE. I'm going to miss him when he's gone.
Hmmm, maybe he'll miss you when you're gone. You going first is a fine result as well.
That would be fun (I'm the second youngest in the office), but I think the info I provided knocked a few years off his time-line. He was pretty much only working because he thought he had to inorder to be able to claim SS at the older age.
Whether it's because of SS or just not knowing how much you need to retire, I've heard a number of stories like this where someone finds out that they could already be retired. That's got to be some of the best but also most unsettling news you can get.
"Wait, I can retire right now? Horray!"
"Wait, I didn't need to work for the last 3 years? Oh..."
Agreed - I found it mind blowing that he was that close and hadn't done any research / planning. It made me want to run around the office shouting "wake up people"
Anytime the conversation with other young coworkers turns to finances, I say that I'm saving half of my income with the intent of being able to retire in 10-15 years. No one has been terribly interested so far :(
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For our company retreat, employees can volunteer to lead breakout sessions on whatever they like. Most people do shopping/sight seeing outings, craft beer, baking, yoga, sewing, etc. Just for kicks, because I’m extremely introverted and have two left thumbs and I do not like the social events or the crafty events, I put in a proposal to discuss the FIRE movement and talk about ways to calculate when you can retire. I said I would lead the group if there were a minimum of two people (one person being myself). Imagine my surprise when I checked the sign up sheet and realized my session was full! Apparently there are a lot of people at work who are interested in personal finance.
Now I actually have to prepare a presentation instead of just sitting around chatting with my friend about index investing and our rental properties.
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For our company retreat, employees can volunteer to lead breakout sessions on whatever they like. Most people do shopping/sight seeing outings, craft beer, baking, yoga, sewing, etc. Just for kicks, because I’m extremely introverted and have two left thumbs and I do not like the social events or the crafty events, I put in a proposal to discuss the FIRE movement and talk about ways to calculate when you can retire. I said I would lead the group if there were a minimum of two people (one person being myself). Imagine my surprise when I checked the sign up sheet and realized my session was full! Apparently there are a lot of people at work who are interested in personal finance.
Now I actually have to prepare a presentation instead of just sitting around chatting with my friend about index investing and our rental properties.
Sounds like it should be crossposted to Mustachian People Problems ;)
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For our company retreat, employees can volunteer to lead breakout sessions on whatever they like. Most people do shopping/sight seeing outings, craft beer, baking, yoga, sewing, etc. Just for kicks, because I’m extremely introverted and have two left thumbs and I do not like the social events or the crafty events, I put in a proposal to discuss the FIRE movement and talk about ways to calculate when you can retire. I said I would lead the group if there were a minimum of two people (one person being myself). Imagine my surprise when I checked the sign up sheet and realized my session was full! Apparently there are a lot of people at work who are interested in personal finance.
Now I actually have to prepare a presentation instead of just sitting around chatting with my friend about index investing and our rental properties.
Sounds like it should be crossposted to Mustachian People Problems ;)
Good idea. :)
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Two of my colleagues (or more... these are just the ones I know about) outsource their ironing. In my innocence, I didn't even know that was a thing.
Apparently it just takes too long.
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Ironing does take too long, which is why we don’t do it. We don’t do it by not buying or wearing clothes that require ironing.
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Ironing does take too long, which is why we don’t do it. We don’t do it by not buying or wearing clothes that require ironing.
We do this too. DH has a lot of non iron shirts. But also hanging his shirts up to dry on a clothes hanger, instead of putting it in the tumble dry, makes them almost as flat as ironed.
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Two of my colleagues (or more... these are just the ones I know about) outsource their ironing. In my innocence, I didn't even know that was a thing.
Apparently it just takes too long.
Don't you want the Antimustachian work thread, not to Anti-Antimustachian one? https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work-2/
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Two of my colleagues (or more... these are just the ones I know about) outsource their ironing. In my innocence, I didn't even know that was a thing.
Apparently it just takes too long.
Don't you want the Antimustachian work thread, not to Anti-Antimustachian one? https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work-2/
Sorry. Got confused.
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Ironing does take too long, which is why we don’t do it. We don’t do it by not buying or wearing clothes that require ironing.
The key is to get a remote job, then you don't have to wear clothes. Mostly joking, but I do not wear pants 95% of the time.
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Ironing does take too long, which is why we don’t do it. We don’t do it by not buying or wearing clothes that require ironing.
The key is to get a remote job, then you don't have to wear clothes. Mostly joking, but I do not wear pants 95% of the time.
I mean, any day I can spend in PJs in front of a fireplace is a good day. Work or no work.
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Ironing does take too long, which is why we don’t do it. We don’t do it by not buying or wearing clothes that require ironing.
The key is to get a remote job, then you don't have to wear clothes. Mostly joking, but I do not wear pants 95% of the time.
I mean, any day I can spend in PJs in front of a fireplace is a good day. Work or no work.
My brain got confused converting American meanings into British and subtracted instead. For a moment I was thinking joleran wasn’t wearing anything at all from the waist down.
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Ironing does take too long, which is why we don’t do it. We don’t do it by not buying or wearing clothes that require ironing.
The key is to get a remote job, then you don't have to wear clothes. Mostly joking, but I do not wear pants 95% of the time.
Friend of mine once said he had a skype meeting wearing a shirt but not wearing pants. They asked him to fetch some numbers which he reeled of out of memory, when they insisted that he fetch the paper document from his files he basically said that they should fire him if they didn't believe his memory and that he'd forward a scan of the document after the meeting. He did send the scan and was correct in his memory, they never asked again :D
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Ironing does take too long, which is why we don’t do it. We don’t do it by not buying or wearing clothes that require ironing.
The key is to get a remote job, then you don't have to wear clothes. Mostly joking, but I do not wear pants 95% of the time.
Friend of mine once said he had a skype meeting wearing a shirt but not wearing pants. They asked him to fetch some numbers which he reeled of out of memory, when they insisted that he fetch the paper document from his files he basically said that they should fire him if they didn't believe his memory and that he'd forward a scan of the document after the meeting. He did send the scan and was correct in his memory, they never asked again :D
I had project review meetings at 0500. I took my laptop home and set it up. Fortunately, our laptops specifically did NOT have cameras, since we had to take them into no-camera zones.
0500, and I'm not in PJ's listening in on the phone and ready to do my 5 minutes sometime during the next two hours. It's nice to be able to putter around in the kitchen naked and get paid for it.
Being FIREd is still much better.
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I have a new job with a small semi-governmental non-profit. I am the third person here, next week number 4 starts, and then we are complete :) I cannot describe what company I work for, as it's very identifiable. My colleagues here are very environmentally conscious, have their own veg patch behind their home, commute by train or electric bike, bring their own lunch, are very much involved in their community, even though two of them did not grow up where they are currently living. We don't discuss personal money, but judging by the way they dress and travel, I'd say we all have a good grasp of it.
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Talking with two of my closest work friends as I consider leaving a job - turns out both are massive savers.
Hah.
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I have a new job with a small semi-governmental non-profit. I am the third person here, next week number 4 starts, and then we are complete :) I cannot describe what company I work for, as it's very identifiable. My colleagues here are very environmentally conscious, have their own veg patch behind their home, commute by train or electric bike, bring their own lunch, are very much involved in their community, even though two of them did not grow up where they are currently living. We don't discuss personal money, but judging by the way they dress and travel, I'd say we all have a good grasp of it.
Nice to be in a work environment with people that are a bit like-minded.
I have a co-worker who doesn't like to throw away food, and another few who are good savers. But many are just the usual spendypants.
We all get a credit check when we get hired, and again every 5 years, so no one has a worst case debt situation. Still, I am the only one who spends summer vacations in a tent.
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I just bought 2 tickets for Hans Zimmer in concert (symphonic) at €65 each, which to me is a huge amount to spend on a night out. We will send dds (8 and 11) to sleepovers with friends, saving babysitting costs. We will have food and drink in the car before and after the event.
My colleagues tell me they also think this is a lovely rare outing; they usually attend local theatre and school performances, or street parties (where they are in the organising committee).
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We were all briefing the CFO last week about the auto market, and he stopped, and--as an aside--mentioned that he probably was going to need to replace his current car soon.
And then, he added, "You know, I have never bought a new car. I just couldn't make myself swallow that depreciation on the first year." My employer is a large enough company that his salary is probably public, and certain seven digits.
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One of my later contracts became intolerable and I gave notice. I was pretty blasé about leaving and mentioned a sabbatical of unknown length. My manager picked up on this code and sighed, "I only have 4 years left to go myself." He was in his 40s and I definitely picked up a mustachian vibe from him.
Here's hoping you've made it, S., and you're now enjoying Monday mornings without a much too long stand up.
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I just bought 2 tickets for Hans Zimmer in concert (symphonic) at €65 each, which to me is a huge amount to spend on a night out. We will send dds (8 and 11) to sleepovers with friends, saving babysitting costs. We will have food and drink in the car before and after the event.
My colleagues tell me they also think this is a lovely rare outing; they usually attend local theatre and school performances, or street parties (where they are in the organising committee).
Going to the symphony is never a waste of money. Imagine how amazing it would have been two hundred years ago!
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Hans Zimmer is the guy who composed the film music for Pirates of the Caribbean (and many other films), youtube shows me that there will be about 50 people in the orchestra, 30 people in the choir, and many people in support. For the price I'm paying, it's like giving them 50 cents each for a 2-hour show! It's cheap!
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co-worker1 never buys a new car. always a $5k car that he fixes up.
his son works in an auto parts store and also fixes cars as a side business.
other co-workers who live close to co-worker1's son are always demanding the son's auto services; he has a reputation for getting the parts at a discount, charging a fair price, and the service is reliable.
the son also buys cars from store customers when he senses a deal. he fixes them up and re-sells at a fair markup.
most of my immediate co-workers either buy used cars, or buy new and keep them for a very long time.
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We were all briefing the CFO last week about the auto market, and he stopped, and--as an aside--mentioned that he probably was going to need to replace his current car soon.
And then, he added, "You know, I have never bought a new car. I just couldn't make myself swallow that depreciation on the first year." My employer is a large enough company that his salary is probably public, and certain seven digits.
Nice. I am so used to hearing other attorneys talk about their expensive cars that it's boring to hear about the new Maserati or Porsche by now. But I had a rare conversation this week at a lawyer event with two attorneys who, like me, drive older cars. One was driving a nearly-10-year-old Kia, and the other was in a 1994 Chevy. I'm in a 2008 Honda Odyssey. It was refreshing and actually surprising not to be driving the oldest car at this type of gathering, to say the least.
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A few months ago I heard some office murmurings about a particular co-worker who works part-time. The water cooler gossip was that this man is really into FIRE-type principles, and that he's barely every in the office because he's usually off hiking or traveling to exotic locations. I was finally able to meet this guy, and after I mentioned that I'm into personal finance optimization, his response was "I need to send you my MATLAB routine that will perform a global optimization (possibly via genetic algorithms) to optimize your retirement savings strategy and tell you when you can FIRE". He had even factored in social security, with various assumptions about future administrations and political impacts. I think he used game theory as well to play out various scenarios. I just stood there in awe of his financial wizadry....and now I think I need to ask him to post his algorithms to github or something.
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Coworker emailed to ask for my health insurance options spreadsheet during open enrollment.
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One of my clients is the owner/CEO of a marketing company with sales right around $500k/month. He draws a conservative $120k a year for his salary. I just found out the other day that he had been driving the oldest car of any of his employees and has gone the past 2 summers without air conditioning in that car. Someone was finally able to convince him that he was being a little too frugal so he bought him self a low mileage civic.
I'm fine with being frugal, but I'm definitely going to have working air conditioning in my car.
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A few months ago I heard some office murmurings about a particular co-worker who works part-time. The water cooler gossip was that this man is really into FIRE-type principles, and that he's barely every in the office because he's usually off hiking or traveling to exotic locations. I was finally able to meet this guy, and after I mentioned that I'm into personal finance optimization, his response was "I need to send you my MATLAB routine that will perform a global optimization (possibly via genetic algorithms) to optimize your retirement savings strategy and tell you when you can FIRE". He had even factored in social security, with various assumptions about future administrations and political impacts. I think he used game theory as well to play out various scenarios. I just stood there in awe of his financial wizadry....and now I think I need to ask him to post his algorithms to github or something.
awesome! let us know of his github repo. would love to clone/fork and play with it.
doing it in matlab means he's way into this, writing routines and subroutines, etc.
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Coworker emailed to ask for my health insurance options spreadsheet during open enrollment.
I, on the other hand, walk around forcing print outs of my health insurance options spreadsheet on my co-workers during open enrollment. They looked at me oddly the first year, but several have benefited.
At a past employer, I had medical/dental/vision costs for each year and each option and single/married/family for 7 years bring tracked on a spreadsheet. along with deductibles, HSA, FSA, etc.
I used to share this with my team to track our premium and deductible increases. Someone from corporate on the other side of the country (California) called me and said this was illegal. I simply said "provide me where this is in Federal law as we work on Federal Property. Also, if your claim is right, you need to come to MyDODworkplace, identify the file, and delete it yourself. I hope you have the appropriate clearance to do this."
I told my boss, he told me never pick up the phone if corporate calls. Just ignore. Corp/HR can find me in the employee directory and call my supervisor (him) and he'll deflect it. He was an umbrella when it rained shit from above.
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A few months ago I heard some office murmurings about a particular co-worker who works part-time. The water cooler gossip was that this man is really into FIRE-type principles, and that he's barely every in the office because he's usually off hiking or traveling to exotic locations. I was finally able to meet this guy, and after I mentioned that I'm into personal finance optimization, his response was "I need to send you my MATLAB routine that will perform a global optimization (possibly via genetic algorithms) to optimize your retirement savings strategy and tell you when you can FIRE". He had even factored in social security, with various assumptions about future administrations and political impacts. I think he used game theory as well to play out various scenarios. I just stood there in awe of his financial wizadry....and now I think I need to ask him to post his algorithms to github or something.
awesome! let us know of his github repo. would love to clone/fork and play with it.
doing it in matlab means he's way into this, writing routines and subroutines, etc.
color me impressed!
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Coworker emailed to ask for my health insurance options spreadsheet during open enrollment.
I, on the other hand, walk around forcing print outs of my health insurance options spreadsheet on my co-workers during open enrollment. They looked at me oddly the first year, but several have benefited.
At a past employer, I had medical/dental/vision costs for each year and each option and single/married/family for 7 years bring tracked on a spreadsheet. along with deductibles, HSA, FSA, etc.
I used to share this with my team to track our premium and deductible increases. Someone from corporate on the other side of the country (California) called me and said this was illegal. I simply said "provide me where this is in Federal law as we work on Federal Property. Also, if your claim is right, you need to come to MyDODworkplace, identify the file, and delete it yourself. I hope you have the appropriate clearance to do this."
I told my boss, he told me never pick up the phone if corporate calls. Just ignore. Corp/HR can find me in the employee directory and call my supervisor (him) and he'll deflect it. He was an umbrella when it rained shit from above.
Illegal to speak about your very personal finances? Hard to believe.
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Coworker emailed to ask for my health insurance options spreadsheet during open enrollment.
I, on the other hand, walk around forcing print outs of my health insurance options spreadsheet on my co-workers during open enrollment. They looked at me oddly the first year, but several have benefited.
At a past employer, I had medical/dental/vision costs for each year and each option and single/married/family for 7 years bring tracked on a spreadsheet. along with deductibles, HSA, FSA, etc.
I used to share this with my team to track our premium and deductible increases. Someone from corporate on the other side of the country (California) called me and said this was illegal. I simply said "provide me where this is in Federal law as we work on Federal Property. Also, if your claim is right, you need to come to MyDODworkplace, identify the file, and delete it yourself. I hope you have the appropriate clearance to do this."
I told my boss, he told me never pick up the phone if corporate calls. Just ignore. Corp/HR can find me in the employee directory and call my supervisor (him) and he'll deflect it. He was an umbrella when it rained shit from above.
Illegal to speak about your very personal finances? Hard to believe.
if you haven't worked for a couple of Fortune 500's and dealt with their HR, you have lived a happier life.
Corp BS is endemic. Get these young college graduates, feed them some BS, and let them run amok.
A friend of mine had a sociology degree, joined HR for the Florida Division of one of America's largest landline/fiber/cellular providers; she couldn't believe the shit HR were telling her. She kept on asking how this or that rule was legal for enforcing, HR would simply tell her to comply or quit. Workplace harassment in the HR dept. Ironic.
A former contract manager overseeing 200+ people at a govt facility told us in an all-hands meeting that pay raises aren't supposed to be discussed. I asked if that statement was approved by the legal dept and passed under which statute or federal law, and does "supposed" mean if we do talk about pay at the bar over a few beers, would that be an issue? He said he'd get back to me (he never did), he knew who I was from our weekend group bike rides.
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Our internal accounting lady sent out instructions on how to check 401k contributions for the year, calculate how much to withhold in remaining paychecks to be able to max out for the year. Apparently some 15-20% of the 70 employees are contributing the annual max, and others putting in close to max.
When we changed our 401k provider to Guideline from AmFundz earlier this year, we made it a policy that every new employee is auto-enrolled in the 401k from Day1, and minimum 3% contribution, with auto 1% increase every calendar year.
Thanks to member posts on MMMForums, I was able to recommend Guideline as one of the alternatives (others were Employee Fiduciary and Betterment4Biz).
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I had a nice talk with a lady here today about our retirement plan. She might be the only person I work with who is as big of a numbers geek as I am when it comes to the retirement plan. I don't get the feeling that she's totally on board with the MMM thing, but she's definitely contributing more than anyone else around me seems to be.
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I decided to look up public info on company 401ks. I know my spouse's company has a good one, and I felt like ours wasn't.
I was right.
But, even worse, I looked at the plan total. We have over 70 employees. I alone have >10% of the total value in the company 401k. Geez.
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I decided to look up public info on company 401ks. I know my spouse's company has a good one, and I felt like ours wasn't.
I was right.
But, even worse, I looked at the plan total. We have over 70 employees. I alone have >10% of the total value in the company 401k. Geez.
What an interesting metric. I'm going to see if I can figure out my ratio.
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I decided to look up public info on company 401ks. I know my spouse's company has a good one, and I felt like ours wasn't.
I was right.
But, even worse, I looked at the plan total. We have over 70 employees. I alone have >10% of the total value in the company 401k. Geez.
How did you find the public info?
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I decided to look up public info on company 401ks. I know my spouse's company has a good one, and I felt like ours wasn't.
I was right.
But, even worse, I looked at the plan total. We have over 70 employees. I alone have >10% of the total value in the company 401k. Geez.
Haha, shocking to find out so few people follow the good example. Ever considered printing that statistic out and hanging it up beside the coffee machine?
I sponsor a local club on a yearly basis, because they prepare ski trails around our cabin. Once on a yearly meeting in that village, they told us publicly which amount they had received that year. I had paid 25% of that amount. And I hadn't paid extremely much, but most of the others had obviously not paid at all or very little.
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I decided to look up public info on company 401ks. I know my spouse's company has a good one, and I felt like ours wasn't.
I was right.
But, even worse, I looked at the plan total. We have over 70 employees. I alone have >10% of the total value in the company 401k. Geez.
How did you find the public info?
Same question - the best I can find is the public information for the mutual fund itself. The one I invest in through work has net assets over $100 billion, so I would love to have 10% of that.
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Often, the total plan value is (relatively) easily accessible, or even published and mailed to each participant. If you know the value of your own account, it's easy to see what % your own. :)
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You can also search the 5500 filing for any plan on the DOL/Efast website - https://www.efast.dol.gov
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You can also search the 5500 filing for any plan on the DOL/Efast website - https://www.efast.dol.gov (https://www.efast.dol.gov)
Poo, can't find any of mine - all governmental plans.
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If you want to nerd out on 401(k) filings, see Brightscope's site (https://www.brightscope.com/). They scrape all the Form 5500 data and then assigns ratings based on how they compare to the ones offered by other peer employers in the same industries. It may come in handy for someone comparing multiple job offers.
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At work they're really big on out 457. During orientation they were like "if you ignore everything else today and only learn one thing, open a 457 right now" and they handed out the paperwork.
During training, a lot of the people who have been with the government for decades, will generally start out with "just some advise, invest in your 457".
One guy today who has been with the government agency I work for said "I wish I'd put more into my 457" and suggested putting in a percentage so all pay raises and overtimes, etc. is a straight percentage.
I really like the insistence on savings.
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Found out that one coworker is saving around 50% of her take home pay. Three coworkers asked me for FIRE resources. Another one has multiple rental properties generating income. One is set to retire at 50 with over $5 million in investments. I’m going to have to start an employee club/meet up at work. I thought I was doing well, but I’m apparently just middle of the pack here.
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CW who works out of town who wears old clothes, drives old car, said he and his wife are retiring in a few years. I said I was happy for him and he said he should just do it now. He slipped his wife makes 7 figures. Not 6, 7. Hardest working dude here. Crazy.
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CW who works out of town who wears old clothes, drives old car, said he and his wife are retiring in a few years. I said I was happy for him and he said he should just do it now. He slipped his wife makes 7 figures. Not 6, 7. Hardest working dude here. Crazy.
Wow, and I thought I married well!
I did marry well. :)
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CW who works out of town who wears old clothes, drives old car, said he and his wife are retiring in a few years. I said I was happy for him and he said he should just do it now. He slipped his wife makes 7 figures. Not 6, 7. Hardest working dude here. Crazy.
The former head of our department who stepped down a couple years ago and now "just" works both as a MD and a principal investigator (very productive and successful), I heard through the grapevine has a wife with a profession (possibly a business) of her own who makes many times what he makes. Maybe that's why he seems so cheerful all the time?
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One of my coworkers and I got into a discussion about food prices today. He lives in downtown Bellevue, WA and works pretty nearby. He and his wife spend $40 a week on groceries. "Well, we're vegan." Good on them!
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Thanks for posting this site! I FIRE'd 3 years ago but still have a significant portion of my portfolio in my old company's 401k. I left it there because I thought the options and fees were pretty good. Old Company's plan rates around 83 and the biggest ding was participation rate. Plan options and fees were top ratings. Glad to have my gut feeling confirmed!
I figure I can always move money out of that 401k but I can never add it again.
If you want to nerd out on 401(k) filings, see Brightscope's site (https://www.brightscope.com/). They scrape all the Form 5500 data and then assigns ratings based on how they compare to the ones offered by other peer employers in the same industries. It may come in handy for someone comparing multiple job offers.
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I have a new youngish coworker who moved over long distance to work with us. He just bought himself his first apartment that he now had to fill up. I suggested our version of Graig's list. He still had some furniture in his old place though. I suggested that it might be expensive to transport cheap furniture here. But a friend was going over there and will take his stuff back. My coworker had already sold all his big stuff, like bed and TV, so that they don't need to be transported. It sounded promising that he is thinking smartly and was interested in being stuff second hand and a little Ikea.
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It's autumn and the nut-trees are dropping their nuts. My boss brought in a large bag of walnuts, for us to share and take home; a colleague brought in 2 bags of hazelnuts for same.
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One of my coworkers and I got into a discussion about food prices today. He lives in downtown Bellevue, WA and works pretty nearby. He and his wife spend $40 a week on groceries. "Well, we're vegan." Good on them!
Good heavens. I'd have thought a bag of rice and a bag of apples costs $40 in Bellevue. Quite impressive. I forgot my lunch yesterday and got some tofu and noodles at a take out place and it was $15.
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It's autumn and the nut-trees are dropping their nuts. My boss brought in a large bag of walnuts, for us to share and take home; a colleague brought in 2 bags of hazelnuts for same.
where do you live?
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In October, someone brought weekly a box full of starfruit. It'd be empty by end of day. Didn't know my fellow Floridians like to eat it. That person grows good starfruit. Great there's no waste.
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In October, someone brought weekly a box full of starfruit. It'd be empty by end of day. Didn't know my fellow Floridians like to eat it. That person grows good starfruit. Great there's no waste.
Fresh starfruit is fabulous. Unfortunately once I had some, I can no longer tolerate the grocery-store starfruit here in Texas.
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It's autumn and the nut-trees are dropping their nuts. My boss brought in a large bag of walnuts, for us to share and take home; a colleague brought in 2 bags of hazelnuts for same.
where do you live?
Autumn? Northern hemisphere.
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North-Western Europe. Lovely sunny autumn this year; I've been cycling to work every day.
I work 4days/wk, 9km commute 1-way, electric bicycle where I only use the motor on 1 steep climb. My boss lives in my village and also makes the commute by electric bicycle unless she has to travel somewhere during the day. One of my colleagues commutes by train; the other will also come by electric bicycle as soon as his wife has given birth and he no longer has to be able to get home quickly-quickly.
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It's autumn and the nut-trees are dropping their nuts. My boss brought in a large bag of walnuts, for us to share and take home; a colleague brought in 2 bags of hazelnuts for same.
where do you live?
Autumn? Northern hemisphere.
The house we rented when we first moved down to NC had a (thin shell) pecan tree in the side yard. Some years almost no nuts, some years enough to share the bounty. I now live where there are no nut trees : (It makes me want to try to grow nut trees, but if I did I'd have to have a dog in the yard to keep the squirrels away (the squirrels are crazy rapacious).
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It's autumn and the nut-trees are dropping their nuts. My boss brought in a large bag of walnuts, for us to share and take home; a colleague brought in 2 bags of hazelnuts for same.
where do you live?
Autumn? Northern hemisphere.
The house we rented when we first moved down to NC had a (thin shell) pecan tree in the side yard. Some years almost no nuts, some years enough to share the bounty. I now live where there are no nut trees : (It makes me want to try to grow nut trees, but if I did I'd have to have a dog in the yard to keep the squirrels away (the squirrels are crazy rapacious).
Haha, so are ours. When my Stepdaughter was visiting from Colorado, she was amazed at how big and fat they are. And my stupid dogs bark at them constantly, which is yet another reason to hate all of them. Bah humbug!
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It's autumn and the nut-trees are dropping their nuts. My boss brought in a large bag of walnuts, for us to share and take home; a colleague brought in 2 bags of hazelnuts for same.
where do you live?
Autumn? Northern hemisphere.
The house we rented when we first moved down to NC had a (thin shell) pecan tree in the side yard. Some years almost no nuts, some years enough to share the bounty. I now live where there are no nut trees : (It makes me want to try to grow nut trees, but if I did I'd have to have a dog in the yard to keep the squirrels away (the squirrels are crazy rapacious).
I grew up surrounded by pecan trees. They were so annoying. Last week, I bought some pecans to make a pecan pie, and I regret not collecting and selling those pecans all that time, because dang they're expensive.
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One of the security guards, a man in his late fifties, I guess:
When I repair my own car and it goes well, I feel as if I have won the lottery!
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One of my coworkers and I got into a discussion about food prices today. He lives in downtown Bellevue, WA and works pretty nearby. He and his wife spend $40 a week on groceries. "Well, we're vegan." Good on them!
You can eat vegan cheap or expensively, and it's easy to spend expensively, so good for them!
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We had our first "snowfall" today (less than an inch overnight/into the morning commute), and a worker and I were discussing snowstorms. Our workplace has a extremely barbaric attitude to calling out during inclement weather. (For perspective: Last winter we had over 8 inches within a few hours, the state almost declared it an emergency, and I still got a "penalty" for not coming to work.)
Me: Yeah, I've heard this winter is predicted to be really bad in terms of snowfall.
CW: Yeah, I don't really know how I'm going to manage being 30 minutes away now. My parents have been encouraging me to get a new car, one that's better in snow, but mine's almost paid off in August, and I don't want another four years of car payments.
Me: (internally) yessssssss!
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One of my coworkers and I got into a discussion about food prices today. He lives in downtown Bellevue, WA and works pretty nearby. He and his wife spend $40 a week on groceries. "Well, we're vegan." Good on them!
You can eat vegan cheap or expensively, and it's easy to spend expensively, so good for them!
New vegans are typically the ones that will fall into the expensive category, especially if they go cold-tofurkey. Experienced ones have figured out that it is pretty easy to keep it cheap.
Alas, we could not give up cheese and gave up on the vegan experiment despite every cardiologist recommendation. Then my wife came down with a 9 month bug and the vegetarianism went straight out the window too.
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During lunch (the boss paid for it), my co-worker said that he's going to work on his annual maintenance of his daily driver European sports car over the Christmas/NY holidays. 195k miles, ~14 years and still driving well. He said he'd have never have kept it past warranty if he didn't know how to work on cars.
The man is a champ at fixing anything, including old European coffee machines.
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Two different people announced their imminent departures from work this week. Both are taking jobs that will be significant pay cuts, but even more significant stress cuts. I know one has been at leasst semi-mustachian for awhile. But I had no idea about the other one.
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"All I want for Christmas is a Cyber Truck."
"Oh, did you know that our colleague __________ already pre-ordered one?"
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"All I want for Christmas is a Cyber Truck."
"Oh, did you know that our colleague __________ already pre-ordered one?"
But did he order the cyber nuts?
https://www.motor1.com/news/385679/tesla-cybertruck-nuts-happen/
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Discussion with co-worker today about former high level executive who retired from our government agency next year. He retired from a post where one could easily land a high level executive role in a private company while pulling his government pension.
Turns out instead former high level executive is currently crewing on a charter fishing boat in FL "learning the craft" so he can captain his own boat should he choose.
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Discussion with co-worker today about former high level executive who retired from our government agency next year. He retired from a post where one could easily land a high level executive role in a private company while pulling his government pension.
Turns out instead former high level executive is currently crewing on a charter fishing boat in FL "learning the craft" so he can captain his own boat should he choose.
Sweet!
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Not overheard at work but what I did:
Got on the benefits committee at my employer last year, proposed a 401k switch to a better provider from the current AmFunds.
Was given time to research and write a data-driven paper with my findings and recommendations.
Submitted to management after committee peer review.
New corporate Veep asked me to brief her late last year.
Meanwhile, heard about Guideline on MMM Forums, proposed it as an additional/late recommendation.
HR/Benefits team sat with current and prospective providers in Q1 2019, Guideline top in every category.
On 4/1 company announced the switch will happen at the end of the month.
I had to tell them this wasn't an April Fool's Day trick, this was the real thing.
Is there any way you would be willing to share your presentation? I am with Voya at work and it is absolute garbage. I’d love to bring something to my bosses to make a change that would benefit everyone.
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Not overheard at work but what I did:
Got on the benefits committee at my employer last year, proposed a 401k switch to a better provider from the current AmFunds.
Was given time to research and write a data-driven paper with my findings and recommendations.
Submitted to management after committee peer review.
New corporate Veep asked me to brief her late last year.
Meanwhile, heard about Guideline on MMM Forums, proposed it as an additional/late recommendation.
HR/Benefits team sat with current and prospective providers in Q1 2019, Guideline top in every category.
On 4/1 company announced the switch will happen at the end of the month.
I had to tell them this wasn't an April Fool's Day trick, this was the real thing.
Is there any way you would be willing to share your presentation? I am with Voya at work and it is absolute garbage. I’d love to bring something to my bosses to make a change that would benefit everyone.
I'd love to see it too! I am the HR manager at my company, and we have NO retirement plan of any kind. I've been talking to my boss (the owner) about it, but he's afraid of the cost. If you could share your ammo, that would be awesome.
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Not overheard at work but what I did:
Got on the benefits committee at my employer last year, proposed a 401k switch to a better provider from the current AmFunds.
Was given time to research and write a data-driven paper with my findings and recommendations.
Submitted to management after committee peer review.
New corporate Veep asked me to brief her late last year.
Meanwhile, heard about Guideline on MMM Forums, proposed it as an additional/late recommendation.
HR/Benefits team sat with current and prospective providers in Q1 2019, Guideline top in every category.
On 4/1 company announced the switch will happen at the end of the month.
I had to tell them this wasn't an April Fool's Day trick, this was the real thing.
Is there any way you would be willing to share your presentation? I am with Voya at work and it is absolute garbage. I’d love to bring something to my bosses to make a change that would benefit everyone.
I'd love to see it too! I am the HR manager at my company, and we have NO retirement plan of any kind. I've been talking to my boss (the owner) about it, but he's afraid of the cost. If you could share your ammo, that would be awesome.
for @solon and @lexde and others.
sanitized versions attached. Errors and Omissions Expected.
Appendix document created by me, after work, on lack of sleep.
Spreadsheet created by my Veep. She's not a financial analyst but did a good job tracking inputs.
If anyone has complaints or nitpicks, too bad.
If anyone needs clarification, please ask. There's no such thing as a stupid question. We're all here to learn and share.
Happy Holidays! May this lead you to better retirement options in 20/20.
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What a nice Holiday Gift to our community! May it ripple outward and lift some more boats.
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Not overheard at work but what I did:
Got on the benefits committee at my employer last year, proposed a 401k switch to a better provider from the current AmFunds.
Was given time to research and write a data-driven paper with my findings and recommendations.
Submitted to management after committee peer review.
New corporate Veep asked me to brief her late last year.
Meanwhile, heard about Guideline on MMM Forums, proposed it as an additional/late recommendation.
HR/Benefits team sat with current and prospective providers in Q1 2019, Guideline top in every category.
On 4/1 company announced the switch will happen at the end of the month.
I had to tell them this wasn't an April Fool's Day trick, this was the real thing.
Is there any way you would be willing to share your presentation? I am with Voya at work and it is absolute garbage. I’d love to bring something to my bosses to make a change that would benefit everyone.
I'd love to see it too! I am the HR manager at my company, and we have NO retirement plan of any kind. I've been talking to my boss (the owner) about it, but he's afraid of the cost. If you could share your ammo, that would be awesome.
for @solon and @lexde and others.
sanitized versions attached. Errors and Omissions Expected.
Appendix document created by me, after work, on lack of sleep.
Spreadsheet created by my Veep. She's not a financial analyst but did a good job tracking inputs.
If anyone has complaints or nitpicks, too bad.
If anyone needs clarification, please ask. There's no such thing as a stupid question. We're all here to learn and share.
Happy Holidays! May this lead you to better retirement options in 20/20.
Thank you so much! I hope that I can do something good with this information and I will certainly update you if that's the case!
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One guy at work I suspect is an MMM-er. He will occasionally book a boardroom and invite everyone on the team to show up for lunch of they are available. He'll bring a little something to share like timbits or homemade muffins. He did this last week and noticed that he seemed to be the only one who'd bought his lunch from the cafeteria. (I think he usually brings it from home.) Now, a few people fessed up that their "brown-bag" or "from home" lunches were leftovers from take-out the night before, or contained something from a lunch-bar at a grocery store. So not totally mustachian, but really not bad!
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Not at work, but from friends who'd moved to a new city a couple months ago:
F1: "So do you guys often go out for food to explore all the options here??"
F2: "To be honest, no, we often are all excited about trying places but then once it's evening we get lazy and cook our own food rather than go out"
Wohooo, eating out is called the LAZY option here people. Hail to these mustachians :)
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DH's new colleague bought a house and is looking for a second roommate after finding one within the first week.
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Not at work, but from friends who'd moved to a new city a couple months ago:
F1: "So do you guys often go out for food to explore all the options here??"
F2: "To be honest, no, we often are all excited about trying places but then once it's evening we get lazy and cook our own food rather than go out"
Wohooo, eating out is called the LAZY option here people. Hail to these mustachians :)
Oooh I totally get that! When I get home from work the last thing I want to do is get on my bike and go to a restaurant, or order food in and wait for it to arrive and hope it's as good as it looks in the picture. I just want to put my prepped meal in the microwave, change out of my work clothes and START EATING.
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One of my employees today asked for help getting set up to contribute to her 401k! She has been with the team for a little over a year now, but was going through a divorce with 3 young boys and didn't have the funds previously to start saving. I could tell she was completely new to investing, so I kept things simple to start and kept her in the target date fund she already had around $4k in from her previous employment at our company - actually not a terrible fund with decent fees. She was even willing to enroll in the auto increase feature to eventually get up to 20%! I was really proud of her, she has been through a LOT this past year, and it's obvious she cares about her future. She may not be on the path to early retirement, but I have no doubts that if she continues contributing the way she is she will at least have a comfortable retirement one day!
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One of my employees today asked for help getting set up to contribute to her 401k! She has been with the team for a little over a year now, but was going through a divorce with 3 young boys and didn't have the funds previously to start saving. I could tell she was completely new to investing, so I kept things simple to start and kept her in the target date fund she already had around $4k in from her previous employment at our company - actually not a terrible fund with decent fees. She was even willing to enroll in the auto increase feature to eventually get up to 20%! I was really proud of her, she has been through a LOT this past year, and it's obvious she cares about her future. She may not be on the path to early retirement, but I have no doubts that if she continues contributing the way she is she will at least have a comfortable retirement one day!
That's really all I hope for where other people are concerned. My brother recently started digging out of debt at the tender age of 50. He and his wife are starting to consider retirement a possibility. I still worry about their house falling down around their ears, but every step in the right direction makes their future a little brighter.
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One of my employees today asked for help getting set up to contribute to her 401k! She has been with the team for a little over a year now, but was going through a divorce with 3 young boys and didn't have the funds previously to start saving. I could tell she was completely new to investing, so I kept things simple to start and kept her in the target date fund she already had around $4k in from her previous employment at our company - actually not a terrible fund with decent fees. She was even willing to enroll in the auto increase feature to eventually get up to 20%! I was really proud of her, she has been through a LOT this past year, and it's obvious she cares about her future. She may not be on the path to early retirement, but I have no doubts that if she continues contributing the way she is she will at least have a comfortable retirement one day!
That's really all I hope for where other people are concerned. My brother recently started digging out of debt at the tender age of 50. He and his wife are starting to consider retirement a possibility. I still worry about their house falling down around their ears, but every step in the right direction makes their future a little brighter.
Better late than never certainly applies to savings/paying off debt!
I try to spread the gospel to some of my friends and some say 'well, what's the point, I can only save €50 a month anyways'. But in less than 2 years, that's more than €1000. And even a little bit of savings means you can buy a refurbished €150 quality washing machine when yours breaks down, instead of getting a 24 month payment plan @ 14% on the cheapest new machine in the shop. It allows you to take advantage of good deals on groceries. It means you can pay that speeding ticket rightaway instead of not paying and having your wages garnished & risk your job because of it. Especially when you have no savings, every single € you do manage to put away or pay off in debt is extremely important.
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We have basically a paid intern at my office. Because he is part time, only gets part time vacation leave (basically 7 days a year). He had no plans for spring break so he volunteered to work at HQ on a project for the week. Full time employees earn overtime during this week, he cannot but instead will earn comp time. So my 20 year old co worker will get 3 extra days off this year, a full week of pay (instead of his normal 16 hours) and DC per diem of $76 a day for food while there.
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Sounds like it might be close to a normal month's worth of compensation in 1 week - that's awesome!
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A client (who retired early in his 50s) was recently talking to me about how important retirement planning is. I opened the mail this week to find that he sent me a personal finance book about early retirement.
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A client (who retired early in his 50s) was recently talking to me about how important retirement planning is. I opened the mail this week to find that he sent me a personal finance book about early retirement.
Good for him! Let him know you're already working on it!
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A client (who retired early in his 50s) was recently talking to me about how important retirement planning is. I opened the mail this week to find that he sent me a personal finance book about early retirement.
Send a picture of you back with the mustachian salute.
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(For perspective: Last winter we had over 8 inches within a few hours, the state almost declared it an emergency, and I still got a "penalty" for not coming to work.)
Yes, it is barbaric to live in a state that would almost declare an emergency for a mere 8" of snow. Maybe if you got 24" in 24 hours it would be o.k. for them to declare an emergency. Your employer would still be right to penalize you, it was your choice not to live close enough that you could ski or snowshoe in anyway.
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A client (who retired early in his 50s) was recently talking to me about how important retirement planning is. I opened the mail this week to find that he sent me a personal finance book about early retirement.
Good for him! Let him know you're already working on it!
Send a picture of you back with the mustachian salute.
LOL. I wish all my clients were this good.
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(For perspective: Last winter we had over 8 inches within a few hours, the state almost declared it an emergency, and I still got a "penalty" for not coming to work.)
Yes, it is barbaric to live in a state that would almost declare an emergency for a mere 8" of snow. Maybe if you got 24" in 24 hours it would be o.k. for them to declare an emergency. Your employer would still be right to penalize you, it was your choice not to live close enough that you could ski or snowshoe in anyway.
I don't think they officially shut anything down for the 10" of snow on monday? I did hear the mail truck and the bus service to the interior were canceled for a day. Fred Meyer's (Kroger) ran out of garlic and some vegetables because their truck got stuck and I stopped to help one guy in the ditch that night... Otherwise it was business as usual.
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What are you guys talking about? Snow? What is that?
We officially had the warmest winter on record. Where I live we had I think 3 days where the temperature did not rise above freezing point, and most days it was several degrees above even in the night.
Ah, the good old days with February having 2 weeks of -10°C or colder all around the clock...
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What are you guys talking about? Snow? What is that?
We officially had the warmest winter on record. Where I live we had I think 3 days where the temperature did not rise above freezing point, and most days it was several degrees above even in the night.
Ah, the good old days with February having 2 weeks of -10°C or colder all around the clock...
It's scary how fast temperatures are rising. In my 30 years on this earth I have seen the changes. When I was a kid we got snow, we could skate on natural ice. I think the last 'cold' (normal) winter we've had was around 2010. That's a full decade ago. This year the zipper of my winter coat broke beyond repair and I've worn my summer coat ever since. I haven't been cold. A couple of days I've worn a scarf early in the morning but I literally haven't worn my gloves this winter or last winter.
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I've worn my summer coat ever since.
Summer... coat? Like sunscreen?
/Texas
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I've worn my summer coat ever since.
Summer... coat? Like sunscreen?
/Texas
The thing you wear when it's warm and raining instead of when it's cold and raining!
We need sunscreen about as often as you need a summer coat....
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For those of you missing snow in your life.
This winter has actually been much close to what I remember growing up. Everyone has gotten used to the warmer winters though so there has been lots of complaining about how cold it is.
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What are you guys talking about? Snow? What is that?
We officially had the warmest winter on record. Where I live we had I think 3 days where the temperature did not rise above freezing point, and most days it was several degrees above even in the night.
Ah, the good old days with February having 2 weeks of -10°C or colder all around the clock...
It's scary how fast temperatures are rising. In my 30 years on this earth I have seen the changes. When I was a kid we got snow, we could skate on natural ice. I think the last 'cold' (normal) winter we've had was around 2010. That's a full decade ago. This year the zipper of my winter coat broke beyond repair and I've worn my summer coat ever since. I haven't been cold. A couple of days I've worn a scarf early in the morning but I literally haven't worn my gloves this winter or last winter.
I was thinking just this morning how dramatically our winter weather has changed in the past 30 years since I was a kid. Winter used to mean these awesome crashing rainstorms and foggy, overcast mornings. I LOVE that weather. This winter has been a massive disappointment with maybe one month of rain and then just dry and mild. It is scary what is happening and how vulnerable we are and will become to insufficient water.
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co-workers unhappy that 401k contributions go in tomorrow 3/10 and not today 3/9 at COB.
had to remind them about DCA and why we switched to Guideline (and their mostly Vanguard portfolio).
Them: yeah, screw American Funds, for many reasons.
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I complimented my coworker on his haircut today. He thanked me and said his wife did it. I cheered him and shared that I cut my husband’s hair.
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Not at work, but kudos to the guy I saw today towing a kayak behind his bicycle. Who needs to drive to the beach when you have a bike trailer?
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That's borderline worthy of the intentional discomfort thread right there, total badass!
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Not at work, but kudos to the guy I saw today towing a kayak behind his bicycle. Who needs to drive to the beach when you have a bike trailer?
Somewhat akin to the people I see with surf board racks on the side of their bikes.
Badass
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It finally occurred to me what to add to this thread. This was 2005 or so, so details are approximate.
A car I haven't seen before turns up for sale on the curb along my way in the neighborhood.
Original owner, 1988 Camry wagon. Excellent condition, meaning it must have spent its life garaged. Something short of 50,000 miles on it. A month later, same thing, but a similarly old Volvo with similarly minuscule mileage for its advanced age.
I didn't need a car, but I contemplated it, and I wish I'd asked just to find out the story. Unless they were driving their other four cars (I doubt it), they were quiet Mustachians before the word existed.
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It finally occurred to me what to add to this thread. This was 2005 or so, so details are approximate.
A car I haven't seen before turns up for sale on the curb along my way in the neighborhood.
Original owner, 1988 Camry wagon. Excellent condition, meaning it must have spent its life garaged. Something short of 50,000 miles on it. A month later, same thing, but a similarly old Volvo with similarly minuscule mileage for its advanced age.
I didn't need a car, but I contemplated it, and I wish I'd asked just to find out the story. Unless they were driving their other four cars (I doubt it), they were quiet Mustachians before the word existed.
Or they were in the business of playing with the odometers...
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Not at work, but kudos to the guy I saw today towing a kayak behind his bicycle. Who needs to drive to the beach when you have a bike trailer?
Somewhat akin to the people I see with surf board racks on the side of their bikes.
Badass
Oh I see these all the time.
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The last couple days one of my subordinates has been educating his team on their pay stub, retirement savings options, and other budgetary matters. Today I walked into his office while he was talking about responsible credit card usage and the benefits of using them vs debit cards. I only got to hear the tail end of each of these discussions, but I'm excited that they're getting some good advice and they're taking lots of notes. The discussion also included how retiring early is an option if you do all this right. Apparently I missed some good conversations, because at the end I mentioned that the money I've invested plus the pension I should be receiving in a couple years will allow me to work where, when, how, and most importantly if I want. Their team leader pointed at me and said "And that's F-U money!" which makes me think that was an earlier talking point. Hopefully I catch the next discussion early and can participate.
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@Travis Wow, what an absolute hero! They are doing some serious good to the world right there. That really picked me up today!
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The last couple days one of my subordinates has been educating his team on their pay stub, retirement savings options, and other budgetary matters. Today I walked into his office while he was talking about responsible credit card usage and the benefits of using them vs debit cards. I only got to hear the tail end of each of these discussions, but I'm excited that they're getting some good advice and they're taking lots of notes. The discussion also included how retiring early is an option if you do all this right. Apparently I missed some good conversations, because at the end I mentioned that the money I've invested plus the pension I should be receiving in a couple years will allow me to work where, when, how, and most importantly if I want. Their team leader pointed at me and said "And that's F-U money!" which makes me think that was an earlier talking point. Hopefully I catch the next discussion early and can participate.
This is an awesome endeavour, but I'd think twice before participating. If I was talking about personal finance and my team leader's manager walked in I'd clam up pretty quickly. It would be difficult to have a conversation about asking for a raise, or to flex hours if the person you'd ask is right there. It can be awkward talking about budgets with someone that has higher income or wealth. That is in my workplace and it could be different in yours.
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The last couple days one of my subordinates has been educating his team on their pay stub, retirement savings options, and other budgetary matters. Today I walked into his office while he was talking about responsible credit card usage and the benefits of using them vs debit cards. I only got to hear the tail end of each of these discussions, but I'm excited that they're getting some good advice and they're taking lots of notes. The discussion also included how retiring early is an option if you do all this right. Apparently I missed some good conversations, because at the end I mentioned that the money I've invested plus the pension I should be receiving in a couple years will allow me to work where, when, how, and most importantly if I want. Their team leader pointed at me and said "And that's F-U money!" which makes me think that was an earlier talking point. Hopefully I catch the next discussion early and can participate.
This is an awesome endeavour, but I'd think twice before participating. If I was talking about personal finance and my team leader's manager walked in I'd clam up pretty quickly. It would be difficult to have a conversation about asking for a raise, or to flex hours if the person you'd ask is right there. It can be awkward talking about budgets with someone that has higher income or wealth. That is in my workplace and it could be different in yours.
It's the military so our pay scale and hours are not something we negotiate. Also, I'm encouraged and in some ways required to be knowledgeable about the financial education and financial health of my subordinates. You're right though that I rarely talk about my own financial matters since my pay is several times that my most junior soldiers.
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...
It's the military so our pay scale and hours are not something we negotiate. Also, I'm encouraged and in some ways required to be knowledgeable about the financial education and financial health of my subordinates. You're right though that I rarely talk about my own financial matters since my pay is several times that my most junior soldiers.
Gotcha, @Travis, yes when I was in the military this would have been discussed more openly than in civilian work; and was so desperately needed by some newer recruits!
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The last couple days one of my subordinates has been educating his team on their pay stub, retirement savings options, and other budgetary matters. Today I walked into his office while he was talking about responsible credit card usage and the benefits of using them vs debit cards. I only got to hear the tail end of each of these discussions, but I'm excited that they're getting some good advice and they're taking lots of notes. The discussion also included how retiring early is an option if you do all this right. Apparently I missed some good conversations, because at the end I mentioned that the money I've invested plus the pension I should be receiving in a couple years will allow me to work where, when, how, and most importantly if I want. Their team leader pointed at me and said "And that's F-U money!" which makes me think that was an earlier talking point. Hopefully I catch the next discussion early and can participate.
That's awesome, it would have been great to have had that back when I was in the Army. There's a course on JKO, Million Dollar Sailor, that's pretty decent and self-paced. Gives a good foundation I think, Navy-centric but the info is applicable across the branches.
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What are you guys talking about? Snow? What is that?
We officially had the warmest winter on record. Where I live we had I think 3 days where the temperature did not rise above freezing point, and most days it was several degrees above even in the night.
Ah, the good old days with February having 2 weeks of -10°C or colder all around the clock...
It's scary how fast temperatures are rising. In my 30 years on this earth I have seen the changes. When I was a kid we got snow, we could skate on natural ice. I think the last 'cold' (normal) winter we've had was around 2010. That's a full decade ago. This year the zipper of my winter coat broke beyond repair and I've worn my summer coat ever since. I haven't been cold. A couple of days I've worn a scarf early in the morning but I literally haven't worn my gloves this winter or last winter.
Wow...so scary that we have done that much climate damage to our planet.
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The last couple days one of my subordinates has been educating his team on their pay stub, retirement savings options, and other budgetary matters. Today I walked into his office while he was talking about responsible credit card usage and the benefits of using them vs debit cards. I only got to hear the tail end of each of these discussions, but I'm excited that they're getting some good advice and they're taking lots of notes. The discussion also included how retiring early is an option if you do all this right. Apparently I missed some good conversations, because at the end I mentioned that the money I've invested plus the pension I should be receiving in a couple years will allow me to work where, when, how, and most importantly if I want. Their team leader pointed at me and said "And that's F-U money!" which makes me think that was an earlier talking point. Hopefully I catch the next discussion early and can participate.
That's awesome, it would have been great to have had that back when I was in the Army. There's a course on JKO, Million Dollar Sailor, that's pretty decent and self-paced. Gives a good foundation I think, Navy-centric but the info is applicable across the branches.
Years ago when I was in the military there were a few folks that needed guidance REALLY bad. The Master Chief at my last duty assignment gave a talk but it barely scratched the surface. Only thing I remember hearing on the subject my entire enlistment.
In some ways the guys/gals I met along the way were like professional athletes without the huge income. Just young and no financial awareness. Credit was easy to get and some took all they could get financing everything imaginable.
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many years ago I got a new job close to home & started biking to work, taking my lunch & I hadn't had cable or any tv for a couple of years. so after a co-worker commented about some news I mentioned I didn't watch tv & they asked very seriously if I was Amish or something! lol It became a thing after that, I even started wearing all black eheh
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We had no TV when I was a kid. I remember being asked if we were Amish. I was confused, as I _really_ did NOT look Amish. There were lots of real Amish around and I didn’t fit the dress code .
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many years ago I got a new job close to home & started biking to work, taking my lunch & I hadn't had cable or any tv for a couple of years. so after a co-worker commented about some news I mentioned I didn't watch tv & they asked very seriously if I was Amish or something! lol It became a thing after that, I even started wearing all black eheh
I hear there are lots of Amish people in Oz... /s
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We had no TV when I was a kid. I remember being asked if we were Amish. I was confused, as I _really_ did NOT look Amish. There were lots of real Amish around and I didn’t fit the dress code .
News Flash!!!
Americans are the most ignorant well-educated people in the world. Bar none.
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We had no TV when I was a kid. I remember being asked if we were Amish. I was confused, as I _really_ did NOT look Amish. There were lots of real Amish around and I didn’t fit the dress code .
News Flash!!!
Americans are the most ignorant well-educated people in the world. Bar none.
No argument, geography and language will flummox most Americans.
My point is that you could SEE how real Amish/Old Order Mennonites dressed by looking out the window or down the street (think horse and buggy tied up to parking meter).
I've always found it fascinating, that about 1905 when my grandfather was born, EVERYBODY was indistinguishable from modern Amish. Farms, horse drawn plows, steel wheeled tractors etc.
The hats might be of a different style, but EVERYBODY wore hats.
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We had no TV when I was a kid. I remember being asked if we were Amish. I was confused, as I _really_ did NOT look Amish. There were lots of real Amish around and I didn’t fit the dress code .
News Flash!!!
Americans are the most ignorant well-educated people in the world. Bar none.
No argument, geography and language will flummox most Americans.
My point is that you could SEE how real Amish/Old Order Mennonites dressed by looking out the window or down the street (think horse and buggy tied up to parking meter).
I've always found it fascinating, that about 1905 when my grandfather was born, EVERYBODY was indistinguishable from modern Amish. Farms, horse drawn plows, steel wheeled tractors etc.
The hats might be of a different style, but EVERYBODY wore hats.
Speaking of folks being completely oblivious to obvious visual cues...
About 15 years or so ago the West Nile Virus started showing up in mosquitoes in our area. So, the local newspaper sent out their reporters to go around and ask folks about it.
It's a Sunday afternoon and we're having our armoured swordfighting practice. There are four or five of us under a pavilion at a local park. Two picnic tables are covered in medieval armor and weapons. All four of us are in various stages of putting our armour on.
The reporter walks up to us and asks, "What are you guys doing to protect yourself from the West Nile Virus?"
My squire answers, "We're putting on this armour!"
Talk about a classic double-take!!!
That reporter's jaw dropped and bounced off the ground several times because he had not noticed until then what we were wearing and what we were doing.
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I hope you didn’t elaborate and instead let him run with that for his story!
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I hope you didn’t elaborate and instead let him run with that for his story!
Why not elaborate?
Talk about how the mosquitos were dinging their piercing weapon in vain against this mighty, knightly armor!
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We had no TV when I was a kid. I remember being asked if we were Amish. I was confused, as I _really_ did NOT look Amish. There were lots of real Amish around and I didn’t fit the dress code .
News Flash!!!
Americans are the most ignorant well-educated people in the world. Bar none.
Truth. I had to explain to my team lead the other day that European Spaniards look similar to most other European peoples and are not dark skinned like Latin Americans.
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We had no TV when I was a kid. I remember being asked if we were Amish. I was confused, as I _really_ did NOT look Amish. There were lots of real Amish around and I didn’t fit the dress code .
News Flash!!!
Americans are the most ignorant well-educated people in the world. Bar none.
Truth. I had to explain to my team lead the other day that European Spaniards look similar to most other European peoples and are not dark skinned like Latin Americans.
Uh, there are dark skinned Spaniards and light skinned Latin Americans. Both have long histories of varied immigrations.
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We had no TV when I was a kid. I remember being asked if we were Amish. I was confused, as I _really_ did NOT look Amish. There were lots of real Amish around and I didn’t fit the dress code .
News Flash!!!
Americans are the most ignorant well-educated people in the world. Bar none.
Truth. I had to explain to my team lead the other day that European Spaniards look similar to most other European peoples and are not dark skinned like Latin Americans.
Uh, there are dark skinned Spaniards and light skinned Latin Americans. Both have long histories of varied immigrations.
Yes, I know. But he was assuming that all Spaniards were darker skinned, like Latin Americans.
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We had no TV when I was a kid. I remember being asked if we were Amish. I was confused, as I _really_ did NOT look Amish. There were lots of real Amish around and I didn’t fit the dress code .
News Flash!!!
Americans are the most ignorant well-educated people in the world. Bar none.
No argument, geography and language will flummox most Americans.
My point is that you could SEE how real Amish/Old Order Mennonites dressed by looking out the window or down the street (think horse and buggy tied up to parking meter).
I've always found it fascinating, that about 1905 when my grandfather was born, EVERYBODY was indistinguishable from modern Amish. Farms, horse drawn plows, steel wheeled tractors etc.
The hats might be of a different style, but EVERYBODY wore hats.
Speaking of folks being completely oblivious to obvious visual cues...
About 15 years or so ago the West Nile Virus started showing up in mosquitoes in our area. So, the local newspaper sent out their reporters to go around and ask folks about it.
It's a Sunday afternoon and we're having our armoured swordfighting practice. There are four or five of us under a pavilion at a local park. Two picnic tables are covered in medieval armor and weapons. All four of us are in various stages of putting our armour on.
The reporter walks up to us and asks, "What are you guys doing to protect yourself from the West Nile Virus?"
My squire answers, "We're putting on this armour!"
Talk about a classic double-take!!!
That reporter's jaw dropped and bounced off the ground several times because he had not noticed until then what we were wearing and what we were doing.
That's amazing!
A friend of mine was all dressed up on her way to crown tourney (where the group I play with picks the next king) and someone at the grocery store asked her if she was in a play or something, she absentmindedly said she was off to pick the next king and wandered off, no further explanation. My friend is hilarious!
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We had no TV when I was a kid. I remember being asked if we were Amish. I was confused, as I _really_ did NOT look Amish. There were lots of real Amish around and I didn’t fit the dress code .
News Flash!!!
Americans are the most ignorant well-educated people in the world. Bar none.
Truth. I had to explain to my team lead the other day that European Spaniards look similar to most other European peoples and are not dark skinned like Latin Americans.
On the other hand, I was talking to a Spanish Professor from Spain who was acting as a translator for a church food bank. The Mexican kids asked her where she learned her Spanish. (Her story as related to me)
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We had no TV when I was a kid. I remember being asked if we were Amish. I was confused, as I _really_ did NOT look Amish. There were lots of real Amish around and I didn’t fit the dress code .
News Flash!!!
Americans are the most ignorant well-educated people in the world. Bar none.
Truth. I had to explain to my team lead the other day that European Spaniards look similar to most other European peoples and are not dark skinned like Latin Americans.
Uh, there are dark skinned Spaniards and light skinned Latin Americans. Both have long histories of varied immigrations.
Yes, I know. But he was assuming that all Spaniards were darker skinned, like Latin Americans.
Tell him the Spanish cultural Golden Time was under Islamic Rule and it only went downwards after the Christians finshed their "Reconquista". (They were quite successful in pillaging and slaving though in the next few centuries.)
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We had no TV when I was a kid. I remember being asked if we were Amish. I was confused, as I _really_ did NOT look Amish. There were lots of real Amish around and I didn’t fit the dress code .
News Flash!!!
Americans are the most ignorant well-educated people in the world. Bar none.
Truth. I had to explain to my team lead the other day that European Spaniards look similar to most other European peoples and are not dark skinned like Latin Americans.
Uh, there are dark skinned Spaniards and light skinned Latin Americans. Both have long histories of varied immigrations.
Yes, I know. But he was assuming that all Spaniards were darker skinned, like Latin Americans.
Tell him the Spanish cultural Golden Time was under Islamic Rule and it only went downwards after the Christians finshed their "Reconquista". (They were quite successful in pillaging and slaving though in the next few centuries.)
I don't even want to go there. He's one of those "Christians are so persecuted these days" guys.
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There was a dear man who was a custodian at the high school I taught at that would talk with me a few minutes every day. On the day he retired early he told me he was going to buy a professional camera with all the loose change he had swept up every day that kids had dropped or thrown at each other.
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There was a dear man who was a custodian at the high school I taught at that would talk with me a few minutes every day. On the day he retired early he told me he was going to buy a professional camera with all the loose change he had swept up every day that kids had dropped or thrown at each other.
THAT perfectly fits the thread.
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There was a dear man who was a custodian at the high school I taught at that would talk with me a few minutes every day. On the day he retired early he told me he was going to buy a professional camera with all the loose change he had swept up every day that kids had dropped or thrown at each other.
THAT perfectly fits the thread.
That's such a great story. I hope he's enjoying his well deserved early retirement!
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There was a dear man who was a custodian at the high school I taught at that would talk with me a few minutes every day. On the day he retired early he told me he was going to buy a professional camera with all the loose change he had swept up every day that kids had dropped or thrown at each other.
THAT perfectly fits the thread.
I pity the cashier who has to count that :D
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Twice per week, I have a virtual meeting with our audit team. It's both there to discuss audit status and needs, as well as an excuse to socialize with people. Every meeting starts off with the in-charge talking about his crypto gains for the week. Today, it was "I've made $357 since last week!"
I just smile and nod along. I guess it's good that he's doing something. Another person (fairly new) did say that he plans to stick to index funds whenever he gets around to investing. I hope "whenever he gets around to it" is sooner, rather than later.
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Twice per week, I have a virtual meeting with our audit team. It's both there to discuss audit status and needs, as well as an excuse to socialize with people. Every meeting starts off with the in-charge talking about his crypto gains for the week. Today, it was "I've made $357 since last week!"
I just smile and nod along. I guess it's good that he's doing something. Another person (fairly new) did say that he plans to stick to index funds whenever he gets around to investing. I hope "whenever he gets around to it" is sooner, rather than later.
I could not sleep well with crypto stuff. There is simply no understandable reason for big changes.
Also I did made 400 too in the second January week with Tesla, and lost 400 in the third week with Xiaomi thanks to Trump.
It comes, it goes.
One of my coworkers also does cryptos. Currently he looks happier than half a year ago about that :D
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Twice per week, I have a virtual meeting with our audit team. It's both there to discuss audit status and needs, as well as an excuse to socialize with people. Every meeting starts off with the in-charge talking about his crypto gains for the week. Today, it was "I've made $357 since last week!"
I just smile and nod along. I guess it's good that he's doing something. Another person (fairly new) did say that he plans to stick to index funds whenever he gets around to investing. I hope "whenever he gets around to it" is sooner, rather than later.
I could not sleep well with crypto stuff. There is simply no understandable reason for big changes.
Also I did made 400 too in the second January week with Tesla, and lost 400 in the third week with Xiaomi thanks to Trump.
It comes, it goes.
One of my coworkers also does cryptos. Currently he looks happier than half a year ago about that :D
There is more and more talk of paying with things in crypto. How does that even work? Do you make the exchange the second you agree on a price or does every negotiation become a crypto gamble?
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Twice per week, I have a virtual meeting with our audit team. It's both there to discuss audit status and needs, as well as an excuse to socialize with people. Every meeting starts off with the in-charge talking about his crypto gains for the week. Today, it was "I've made $357 since last week!"
I just smile and nod along. I guess it's good that he's doing something. Another person (fairly new) did say that he plans to stick to index funds whenever he gets around to investing. I hope "whenever he gets around to it" is sooner, rather than later.
I could not sleep well with crypto stuff. There is simply no understandable reason for big changes.
Also I did made 400 too in the second January week with Tesla, and lost 400 in the third week with Xiaomi thanks to Trump.
It comes, it goes.
One of my coworkers also does cryptos. Currently he looks happier than half a year ago about that :D
There is more and more talk of paying with things in crypto. How does that even work? Do you make the exchange the second you agree on a price or does every negotiation become a crypto gamble?
https://www.investopedia.com/news/bitcoin-pizza-day-celebrating-20-million-pizza-order/
Works out better for some than it does for others.
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Twice per week, I have a virtual meeting with our audit team. It's both there to discuss audit status and needs, as well as an excuse to socialize with people. Every meeting starts off with the in-charge talking about his crypto gains for the week. Today, it was "I've made $357 since last week!"
I just smile and nod along. I guess it's good that he's doing something. Another person (fairly new) did say that he plans to stick to index funds whenever he gets around to investing. I hope "whenever he gets around to it" is sooner, rather than later.
I could not sleep well with crypto stuff. There is simply no understandable reason for big changes.
Also I did made 400 too in the second January week with Tesla, and lost 400 in the third week with Xiaomi thanks to Trump.
It comes, it goes.
One of my coworkers also does cryptos. Currently he looks happier than half a year ago about that :D
There is more and more talk of paying with things in crypto. How does that even work? Do you make the exchange the second you agree on a price or does every negotiation become a crypto gamble?
That heavily depends on what you use with whom ;)
But in general it's (or can be) not different from paying in any other currency. After all, the currency is just a description related to a certain number of your account.
Take e.g. Paypal who want to jump on the train right now: Does it matter to PP if you click on dollar, Euro or Bitcoin?
Of course that is high level usage, the lower you go the more hassle it becomes - and also a lot less efficient (energy wise) than conventional credit card companies for example, at least for Bitcoin, which btw. cannot handle even 1% of todays credit card transactions.
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Twice per week, I have a virtual meeting with our audit team. It's both there to discuss audit status and needs, as well as an excuse to socialize with people. Every meeting starts off with the in-charge talking about his crypto gains for the week. Today, it was "I've made $357 since last week!"
I just smile and nod along. I guess it's good that he's doing something. Another person (fairly new) did say that he plans to stick to index funds whenever he gets around to investing. I hope "whenever he gets around to it" is sooner, rather than later.
I could not sleep well with crypto stuff. There is simply no understandable reason for big changes.
Also I did made 400 too in the second January week with Tesla, and lost 400 in the third week with Xiaomi thanks to Trump.
It comes, it goes.
One of my coworkers also does cryptos. Currently he looks happier than half a year ago about that :D
There is more and more talk of paying with things in crypto. How does that even work? Do you make the exchange the second you agree on a price or does every negotiation become a crypto gamble?
That heavily depends on what you use with whom ;)
But in general it's (or can be) not different from paying in any other currency. After all, the currency is just a description related to a certain number of your account.
Take e.g. Paypal who want to jump on the train right now: Does it matter to PP if you click on dollar, Euro or Bitcoin?
Of course that is high level usage, the lower you go the more hassle it becomes - and also a lot less efficient (energy wise) than conventional credit card companies for example, at least for Bitcoin, which btw. cannot handle even 1% of todays credit card transactions.
I wasn't worried about PP, but about those on either end of the transaction. The dollar and the euro fluctuate, but not by as much as crypto. Massive fluctuations like crypto are why fiat currencies end up collapsing, going to the dollar or devaluing, but of course that is because the "fluctuations" in fiat currencies tend to go in one direction, not see sawing back and forth.
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I am planning a city-wide Food Drive for April. I was speaking to a grocery store manager I know slightly. He said he wanted to be sure to get the date on the calendar in case he wasn't there. W-w-what? Seems he's worried about his health and wants to take a year off to get things back in balance. You know I was grinning from ear-to-ear under my mask. Of course I mentioned the blog and this site and promised to send a link. Wouldn't it be cool if he discovered he was already there?
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[...] and also a lot less efficient (energy wise) than conventional credit card companies for example, at least for Bitcoin, which btw. cannot handle even 1% of todays credit card transactions.
Hey @LennStar , do you happen to have some background reading for this? I was discussing this with a friend and while we found some resources they were kind of vague. Thanks a lot in advance!
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[...] and also a lot less efficient (energy wise) than conventional credit card companies for example, at least for Bitcoin, which btw. cannot handle even 1% of todays credit card transactions.
Hey @LennStar , do you happen to have some background reading for this? I was discussing this with a friend and while we found some resources they were kind of vague. Thanks a lot in advance!
Sorry, I don't know any good place for a beginner. I have been mostly out of crypto for 3 years now. (Except Gridcoin, which is a unique one and not one for a beginner trying to understand :D)
But it should not that hard to find estimates about the energy usage of Bitcoin. The keywords here are "proof of work". (There is also "proof of stake" which uses a lot less energy as an alternative mode to "move the chain")
As for transactions maximum, that's easy: Maximum size of the block, time between blocks and size per transaction.
First one is fixed. Second one averages out in the long run and third can fluctuate a lot depending on how much prior transactions you have to put together for the funds. But that has an average too.
Take those three numbers and you know fairly exact how much transaction a blockchain can do.
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[...] and also a lot less efficient (energy wise) than conventional credit card companies for example, at least for Bitcoin, which btw. cannot handle even 1% of todays credit card transactions.
Hey @LennStar , do you happen to have some background reading for this? I was discussing this with a friend and while we found some resources they were kind of vague. Thanks a lot in advance!
Sorry, I don't know any good place for a beginner. I have been mostly out of crypto for 3 years now. (Except Gridcoin, which is a unique one and not one for a beginner trying to understand :D)
But it should not that hard to find estimates about the energy usage of Bitcoin. The keywords here are "proof of work". (There is also "proof of stake" which uses a lot less energy as an alternative mode to "move the chain")
As for transactions maximum, that's easy: Maximum size of the block, time between blocks and size per transaction.
First one is fixed. Second one averages out in the long run and third can fluctuate a lot depending on how much prior transactions you have to put together for the funds. But that has an average too.
Take those three numbers and you know fairly exact how much transaction a blockchain can do.
I can’t vouch for crypto numbers, but I can give you some context about credit card numbers. I worked at a major credit card company about a decade ago. At the time, we were processing about 2.5 million transactions a second during peak times ( I forget the annual totals). Given the growth of the industry, I’d guestimate this number has roughly doubled since I worked there. All of this was split between two redundant data centers.
A big part of the uphill climb crypto has to overcome are parts of the financial transaction that most people don’t think of until they need it. Things like authorization services, dispute resolution, fraud resolution, chargebacks, refunds, etc, don’t exist in the crypto world. While these services could possibly be created, it would require eliminating some of the things that make crypto unique.
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many years ago I got a new job close to home & started biking to work, taking my lunch & I hadn't had cable or any tv for a couple of years. so after a co-worker commented about some news I mentioned I didn't watch tv & they asked very seriously if I was Amish or something! lol It became a thing after that, I even started wearing all black eheh
I hear there are lots of Amish people in Oz... /s
??
It was at a US based job....
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Well that joke fell flat. Oops.
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Well that joke fell flat. Oops.
I appreciated the humor! (I think freedomfightergal missed the sarcasm tag... :) )
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Twice per week, I have a virtual meeting with our audit team. It's both there to discuss audit status and needs, as well as an excuse to socialize with people. Every meeting starts off with the in-charge talking about his crypto gains for the week. Today, it was "I've made $357 since last week!"
I just smile and nod along. I guess it's good that he's doing something. Another person (fairly new) did say that he plans to stick to index funds whenever he gets around to investing. I hope "whenever he gets around to it" is sooner, rather than later.
When the same thing happened Tuesday, I decided to privately email the two newer staff members and offered a different perspective, including links to a few good blog posts (including two from MMM). One replied that he loves MMM, but hasn't put it all together yet.
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Thank you @LennStar and @NorCal !
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Naturally frugal employee who I’ve managed for years as he’s progressed upwards throughout his career: “hey so I’ve been thinking more about savings now that I have a higher income and noticed that there’s a total 401k limit of like 58k, what’s that about?”
I explain how mega back door Roth’s work
Him: holy crap that’s a good idea!
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indeed my wife and I organized things to make a backdoor contribution on her behalf early in the year. It's also good because it gets you to make the lump sum, early, which on-average will get you a higher return.
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Here's an anti-antimustachian story, but it's not about work but about family. I don't think there's a seperate thread for that.
I met up with my sibling for the first time in nearly a year. Due to reasons we weren't able to meet up at either of our houses so we decided to go to a restaurant for lunch. I know what my sibling makes and it's not much (less than fulltime minimum wage) even though they work hard. Long story but it's not a choice and I'm very proud of them. I have a good job so I naturally picked up the bill even though they offered to split. I explained that I make tons of money and I know they don't so I would rather they use their limited resources for other things, to which my sibling replied: well, I still manage to save X amount every month! X being an impressive amount for someone on their income.
Then I came home and Mr Imma said 'well, you saved that amount when you were on an extremely low income, so you shouldn't be surprised'. And I guess he's right but I still was positively surprised that someone else is doing it, too. We were raised by the same frugal relatives so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
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Congratulations to you and your relative on your high savings rates!
I'd always suspected my cousin was frugal, but she eventually confirmed that she'd been amping up the saving and even showed me a celebrity selfie her husband had taken with MMM himself.
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At work at customer site yesterday, heard a military officer say she put in her papers to retire, having done 20 in uniform. She said she had contributed a ton to the TSP ever since she joined Uncle Sam's Army hence she could live easily 40 years on her savings and retirement income in her home West African country. Also, she's been investing in rentals and businesses there. Her kids are grown and flown. Her American husband works full-time but he's looking into continuing remote working (since COVID) from there, and then eventually taper down to part-time or seasonal contract work.
Others were astounded on her FIRE plans. Could sense some jealousy in the replies. I'm chuffed there's a secret Mustachian in my workplace.
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Others were astounded on her FIRE plans. Could sense some jealousy in the replies. I'm chuffed there's a secret Mustachian in my workplace.
I hope you send her an mustachian salute.
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At work at customer site yesterday, heard a military officer say she put in her papers to retire, having done 20 in uniform. She said she had contributed a ton to the TSP ever since she joined Uncle Sam's Army hence she could live easily 40 years on her savings and retirement income in her home West African country. Also, she's been investing in rentals and businesses there. Her kids are grown and flown. Her American husband works full-time but he's looking into continuing remote working (since COVID) from there, and then eventually taper down to part-time or seasonal contract work.
Others were astounded on her FIRE plans. Could sense some jealousy in the replies. I'm chuffed there's a secret Mustachian in my workplace.
I love these kinds of stories.
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At work at customer site yesterday, heard a military officer say she put in her papers to retire, having done 20 in uniform. She said she had contributed a ton to the TSP ever since she joined Uncle Sam's Army hence she could live easily 40 years on her savings and retirement income in her home West African country. Also, she's been investing in rentals and businesses there. Her kids are grown and flown. Her American husband works full-time but he's looking into continuing remote working (since COVID) from there, and then eventually taper down to part-time or seasonal contract work.
Others were astounded on her FIRE plans. Could sense some jealousy in the replies. I'm chuffed there's a secret Mustachian in my workplace.
I love these kinds of stories.
I love your story.
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At work at customer site yesterday, heard a military officer say she put in her papers to retire, having done 20 in uniform. She said she had contributed a ton to the TSP ever since she joined Uncle Sam's Army hence she could live easily 40 years on her savings and retirement income in her home West African country. Also, she's been investing in rentals and businesses there. Her kids are grown and flown. Her American husband works full-time but he's looking into continuing remote working (since COVID) from there, and then eventually taper down to part-time or seasonal contract work.
Others were astounded on her FIRE plans. Could sense some jealousy in the replies. I'm chuffed there's a secret Mustachian in my workplace.
I love these kinds of stories.
I love your story.
<3
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I walked by a group of coworkers today with whom I have a passing acquaintance, one with whom I have worked on projects in the past and had a brief discussion on early retirement. As I walked past, she suddenly said loudly, "Freedomin5 is probably ready to FIRE!" I was a bit surprised and feigned confusion. The other two (whom I knew in passing) quickly jumped in with "FIRE -- it stands for Financial Independence Retire Early." I know one of them has rental property in the states. I was on my way to a meeting, as were they (to a different meeting), so I wasn't able to get deeper into it.
It looks like there may be some FIRE devotees in our midst.
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It's good to have a reputation for frugality at work.
It may not be good to have a lot of people think you don't care about a long-term career.
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Glad to have one to share from this morning. Here at a Fortune 100 (barely…) company there is a lot of good, but like most places, there’s a whole lot of bad also. Coworker announced today he is gone this Friday. 20 years was enough, and he openly stated that they are well positioned for him to take a much different job due to their simple life and dedicated investing. He is going from a six figure (likely around $125k) engineering role to a position in a school district maintenance yard. The company has drifted over the last few years, but most of us keep gulping the kool-aid.
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Congratulations to your co-worker.
Since we are mustachians, the obvious question about the new role is whether the commute is substantially reduced?
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I'm in the National Guard and this weekend I was riding with a couple of other officers out to do a 12-mile ruck march. One guy offered to drive in his giant lifted diesel truck. I sat in the back seat and the other two guys were talking about their trucks, campers, and lots of other super expensive toys. The guy driving bragged about the $10,000 discount off MSRP offered to police officers (his full-time job). So maybe he only paid $40,000 instead of $50,000. But it's lifted so high that if he wants to two a camper (only a few tens of thousands more) he'll have to pay extra to get the trailer raised up high enough to reach the trailer hitch.
It boggles the mind spending $20-30,000 on a camper that will probably get used a few times per year, and tens of thousands more on a truck to haul it - that will otherwise serve the same function as a car.
On the other hand, I was surprised to learn that it got about 16-20 miles per gallon. One of our vehicles is a 20-year old full size van and it gets about 10 mpgn. Even our minivan only gets about 22 mpg.
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Noticed a coworker was checking our salary schedule the other day. We got to talking even living in the pricy Bay Area, coworker maxes out her TSP, Roth and is saving another $2,000 a month on average for a future home purchase. (Which is why she was running the numbers again using our salary schedule).
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Last year, my employer's founder bought a rusty-but-low-mileage Corolla for $500 as a beater for his teens to use. This year, one of the control arm bushings basically disintegrated, and his mechanic wasn't interested in touching a car with that much rust. So he's back in the market for a kid-friendly beater.
Today I went with him to look at the new beater, as he knows I do my own car repair. New beater is a '01 Civic with 175k miles, a manual transmission, nearly-new tires, and almost no rust at all. Clutch probably needs replacing at some point, but Founder talked the guy down by about the cost of replacing the clutch.
This is a guy who's easily worth 8 figures, and daily drives a '03 Accord with 260,000 miles on it.
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Last year, my employer's founder bought a rusty-but-low-mileage Corolla for $500 as a beater for his teens to use. This year, one of the control arm bushings basically disintegrated, and his mechanic wasn't interested in touching a car with that much rust. So he's back in the market for a kid-friendly beater.
Today I went with him to look at the new beater, as he knows I do my own car repair. New beater is a '01 Civic with 175k miles, a manual transmission, nearly-new tires, and almost no rust at all. Clutch probably needs replacing at some point, but Founder talked the guy down by about the cost of replacing the clutch.
This is a guy who's easily worth 8 figures, and daily drives a '03 Accord with 260,000 miles on it.
Founder is also giving his kids the invaluable skill of driving a stick; which will allow the kids to rent the really cheap Econ boxes in Europe should they ever choose too.
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Last year, my employer's founder bought a rusty-but-low-mileage Corolla for $500 as a beater for his teens to use. This year, one of the control arm bushings basically disintegrated, and his mechanic wasn't interested in touching a car with that much rust. So he's back in the market for a kid-friendly beater.
Today I went with him to look at the new beater, as he knows I do my own car repair. New beater is a '01 Civic with 175k miles, a manual transmission, nearly-new tires, and almost no rust at all. Clutch probably needs replacing at some point, but Founder talked the guy down by about the cost of replacing the clutch.
This is a guy who's easily worth 8 figures, and daily drives a '03 Accord with 260,000 miles on it.
Founder is also giving his kids the invaluable skill of driving a stick; which will allow the kids to rent the really cheap Econ boxes in Europe should they ever choose too.
Or possibly not, but we were talking the other day about how our kids are the only generation that will probably drive both manuals and EVs in their lifetimes.
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Last year, my employer's founder bought a rusty-but-low-mileage Corolla for $500 as a beater for his teens to use. This year, one of the control arm bushings basically disintegrated, and his mechanic wasn't interested in touching a car with that much rust. So he's back in the market for a kid-friendly beater.
Today I went with him to look at the new beater, as he knows I do my own car repair. New beater is a '01 Civic with 175k miles, a manual transmission, nearly-new tires, and almost no rust at all. Clutch probably needs replacing at some point, but Founder talked the guy down by about the cost of replacing the clutch.
This is a guy who's easily worth 8 figures, and daily drives a '03 Accord with 260,000 miles on it.
Founder is also giving his kids the invaluable skill of driving a stick; which will allow the kids to rent the really cheap Econ boxes in Europe should they ever choose too.
Or possibly not, but we were talking the other day about how our kids are the only generation that will probably drive both manuals and EVs in their lifetimes.
Carrying on the off-topic discussion, but DH and I own both a manual and an EV at the same time
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Last year, my employer's founder bought a rusty-but-low-mileage Corolla for $500 as a beater for his teens to use. This year, one of the control arm bushings basically disintegrated, and his mechanic wasn't interested in touching a car with that much rust. So he's back in the market for a kid-friendly beater.
Today I went with him to look at the new beater, as he knows I do my own car repair. New beater is a '01 Civic with 175k miles, a manual transmission, nearly-new tires, and almost no rust at all. Clutch probably needs replacing at some point, but Founder talked the guy down by about the cost of replacing the clutch.
This is a guy who's easily worth 8 figures, and daily drives a '03 Accord with 260,000 miles on it.
Founder is also giving his kids the invaluable skill of driving a stick; which will allow the kids to rent the really cheap Econ boxes in Europe should they ever choose too.
Or possibly not, but we were talking the other day about how our kids are the only generation that will probably drive both manuals and EVs in their lifetimes.
Carrying on the off-topic discussion, but DH and I own both a manual and an EV at the same time
I used to drive stick until I sprained my left ankle badly, now I drive automatic. DD and SiL both drive stick, their cars are harder to find but cheaper. Manual transmission gets you out of a snowbank more easily.
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Am I the only one who owns a manual transmission electric ?
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Am I the only one who owns a manual transmission electric ?
Probably, because I don't know of any company who produces them. To be fair, there are also only two models where I know it's automatic :D
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Am I the only one who owns a manual transmission electric ?
Probably, because I don't know of any company who produces them. To be fair, there are also only two models where I know it's automatic :D
You just gotta install the motor on your bottom bracket
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Last year, my employer's founder bought a rusty-but-low-mileage Corolla for $500 as a beater for his teens to use. This year, one of the control arm bushings basically disintegrated, and his mechanic wasn't interested in touching a car with that much rust. So he's back in the market for a kid-friendly beater.
Today I went with him to look at the new beater, as he knows I do my own car repair. New beater is a '01 Civic with 175k miles, a manual transmission, nearly-new tires, and almost no rust at all. Clutch probably needs replacing at some point, but Founder talked the guy down by about the cost of replacing the clutch.
This is a guy who's easily worth 8 figures, and daily drives a '03 Accord with 260,000 miles on it.
Founder is also giving his kids the invaluable skill of driving a stick; which will allow the kids to rent the really cheap Econ boxes in Europe should they ever choose too.
I'm a learner driver in Europe and I'm choosing to only learn to drive an automatic. I'm not going to own a car, I'm only going to use company cars (full fleet is electric) and maybe rent a car very occasionally, and all the cheap rentals are electric these days. I don't expect to rent a car more than once a year seeing as I've succesfully lived for 31 years without a driver's license. In almost all cases it's cheaper to get large stuff delivered rather than rent a car to pick it up and everyone I visit lives near major transit hubs. If it wasn't for my job I would never have gotten a license.
I could spend a ton of extra money to also learn how to drive and get a license for a manual car, but it's 2021, chances of me ever getting into a situation where I would need to drive a stick car are so low that it's simply not worth spending the extra €500 or so in lessons. 10 years from now petrol cars have probably disappeared.
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Is it a separate license for driving a manual vs an automatic?
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Is it a separate license for driving a manual vs an automatic?
In the Netherlands it is, yes. A manual license is considered a "full" license, an automatic is a partial license. If you pass the manual driving test you are also allowed to drive an automatic but not the other way round. If you want to get a full license rather than just an automatic license, you can expect to need 5-10 extra driving lessons on average to learn the skill of using a stick (at €65/lesson). Most kids who get their license at 18 do learn to drive a stick because they're going to use their parents' older vehicles while they're still living at home and most older vehicles are manual. My situation of learning to drive as an adult who is not going to borrow their parent's car is a bit different. At my age I'll statistically need a lot more lessons than a younger driver to pass in the first place, so I decided to not take all those extra lessons for a manual on top of that to save a little bit of money.
I'm surprised it's not a seperate license there, does that mean if you passed your driving test in an automatic, you could still legally drive a manual even though the driving examinator has no idea if you are actually able to do it?
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Yeah I’m the US my first car was a manual but I still took the test with an automatic to minimize the chances of screwing up (don’t worry I still screwed up).
It’s a good skill to have but I definitely wouldn’t pay extra money to do it. If you had a friend with a manual you could practice a bit off road to learn the basics in case you need it in an emergency
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Is it a separate license for driving a manual vs an automatic?
In the Netherlands it is, yes. A manual license is considered a "full" license, an automatic is a partial license. If you pass the manual driving test you are also allowed to drive an automatic but not the other way round. If you want to get a full license rather than just an automatic license, you can expect to need 5-10 extra driving lessons on average to learn the skill of using a stick (at €65/lesson). Most kids who get their license at 18 do learn to drive a stick because they're going to use their parents' older vehicles while they're still living at home and most older vehicles are manual. My situation of learning to drive as an adult who is not going to borrow their parent's car is a bit different. At my age I'll statistically need a lot more lessons than a younger driver to pass in the first place, so I decided to not take all those extra lessons for a manual on top of that to save a little bit of money.
I'm surprised it's not a seperate license there, does that mean if you passed your driving test in an automatic, you could still legally drive a manual even though the driving examinator has no idea if you are actually able to do it?
Yes, that's true. Lol, I learned to drive a stick the way all my friends did. Out behind a Sears Store that had a gigantic parking lot. It happened that my boyfriend owned the stick-shift car (BMW 2002tii) and we both worked at Sears. It cost me nothing.
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My Mom hated driving stick, so I learned to drive automatic, but when I bought my first car, all I could afford was a manual. I had to learn on that car!
My previous car was manual. It got tedious to stop and scan into the parking garage at work, on a hill. so I was happy to get automatic when I got my hybrid. Of course, it was equally important to go from manual windows to automatic windows. It's been 12 years and I still remember that sense of simplicity the first time I drove up that hill with my new automatic everything!
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I'm 32 years old and (re)learning to drive a manual in the States. I learned to drive in my home country with a manual, and I got my driver's license there in my early 20's, but I managed for so long without a car that I forgot a lot of the basics. And US driving is a LOT different from what I was used to.
My husband and I plan to use this manual car until it falls apart. When the time comes to replace it, we'll probably get an electric.
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I'm a learner driver in Europe and I'm choosing to only learn to drive an automatic. I'm not going to own a car, I'm only going to use company cars (full fleet is electric) and maybe rent a car very occasionally, and all the cheap rentals are electric these days. I don't expect to rent a car more than once a year seeing as I've succesfully lived for 31 years without a driver's license. In almost all cases it's cheaper to get large stuff delivered rather than rent a car to pick it up and everyone I visit lives near major transit hubs. If it wasn't for my job I would never have gotten a license.
I could spend a ton of extra money to also learn how to drive and get a license for a manual car, but it's 2021, chances of me ever getting into a situation where I would need to drive a stick car are so low that it's simply not worth spending the extra €500 or so in lessons. 10 years from now petrol cars have probably disappeared.
I was going to say that learning to drive stick is a valuable life skill, then realized I would sound like the people who thought that "slipstick" (sliderule*) skills would always be valuable.
"What about when the batteries die" -- a semi-valid concern for early electronic calculators
I lost, then refound my 1st college calculator many year later, and it still worked on 8+ year old batteries. My grad school calculator (30 years ago) still works on the 1st battery replacement.
*I now realize that I have to put in the definition of slderule https://www.thefreedictionary.com/slide+rule
However, hearing the stories of USA colleagues who didn't know stick driving before picking up a car in Paris are priceless-kostenlos for me, very pricey for Avis France :-) **
Downshifting from 5th to 2nd at over 110km/hr (70mph) on the Autoroute (Freeway, Autobahn)
Not knowing how to get into reverse (VW, pull up on gearswitch, then place in reverse) at the wrong Autoroute toll booth lane and having to manually push the car back far enough to get into the correct lane.
Parking on slope (me). Result, one stone marker forward knocked over, one tree behind bashed into.
I only had 5 or so CAR stick experiences before trying to follow a colleague out of Paris CDG Terminal 2 at an excessive speed. I had been riding motorcycles (almost all of which were manual) so I had a good grasp (no pun intended) of clutch operation.
**I'm sure Avis France shudders when a certain well known US logo on a shirt shows up at the counter. If not, they should. Many stories of destruction beyond just stick misuse.
But they got us one time, since we were Americans and they assumed automatic only, which pushed the price range way up. A colleague and I got a Citron C6 -- very nice car, good enough for the French President https://automobile.fandom.com/wiki/State_Limousines_of_France, good enough for us. The bean counters were enraged that we accepted a Euro6000/month car.
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Is it a separate license for driving a manual vs an automatic?
In the Netherlands it is, yes....
I'm surprised it's not a seperate license there, does that mean if you passed your driving test in an automatic, you could still legally drive a manual even though the driving examinator has no idea if you are actually able to do it?
Just to add a little sidebar.
For trucks (as in tractor-trailers/semi's/HGVs, not pickups), there is an automatic restriction on commercial driver licenses unless you were tested in a manual. I thought that was interesting.
Even more interesting to me, when I went thru truck driving school, one of my classmates had never driven a manual car. I found it very hard to stop burying the clutch so not sure if my car driving experience was a help or a hindrance. (When changing gears in the truck, you only push the clutch in partway. Burying it is not a good habit.)
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I'll stay on the off-topic subject but only because these happened to me and they're funny.
As a teen I was learning to drive on my mom's automatic. My dad asked if I wanted to drive him to the pipe store across town. Sure! Except he had a stick shift. We got about 6 blocks from home and I stopped at a stop sign. The ground was totally flat. Flat as an unleavened pancake flat.
I could not get my feet and hands to coordinate enough to get past that stop sign. We were at that intersection for an hour. It was so bad that several families who lived at that intersection came out of their houses and sat down on lawn chairs to watch the spectacle. You can find this as the definition of humiliating in some dictionaries...
I got better! Still drive a stick shift today.
I went to Britain and rented a car. It was also a stick shift. I got in, drove us out of the rental car lot across the street to the gas station down the road and filled up the tank. Then I couldn't get that car to shift gears. At all. I don't mean I couldn't get my hands and feet to properly coordinate -- LORD KNOWS I had enough experience to recognize THAT problem again. The gear just wouldn't budge. I got out and my wife got into the driver's seat. She couldn't make it work either.
I asked a local who was pumping gas if he had any idea what the problem was. (It was a busy highway and walking across it(twice!) back to the rental agency it wasn't my first choice.) He shrugged and sat down in the driver's seat and it worked fine.
The solution? There was a plastic ring on the underside of the gear shift knob. Some kind of safety device, you had to reach down around the knob, grab the ring and pull it upwards to change gears. Apparently, I had unknowingly done that when I first drove the car. Who knew?!
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Still on driver's licenses - when I moved from Quebec to Ontario, not only did I get a full driver's license, apparently I am licensed to drive a motorcycle. Huh? The Quebec license at that time covered all of those, so Ontario put me down for everything. I am also licensed to supervise a driver with a learner's permit, which is OK. I did that a lot with DD while she had her learner's permit.
Off topic, when I moved I found 2 of my very old solar powered scientific calculators and both work. I don't imagine they have much market value, but I couldn't bear to get rid of them, too sentimental and they don't take up much space. And although my Dad tried to teach me several times, I never got the hang of a slide rule. But I think I still have his kicking around somewhere. You know, for the zombie apocalypse after the computers and cell phones and solar calculators die.
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Is it a separate license for driving a manual vs an automatic?
In the Netherlands it is, yes. A manual license is considered a "full" license, an automatic is a partial license. If you pass the manual driving test you are also allowed to drive an automatic but not the other way round. If you want to get a full license rather than just an automatic license, you can expect to need 5-10 extra driving lessons on average to learn the skill of using a stick (at €65/lesson). Most kids who get their license at 18 do learn to drive a stick because they're going to use their parents' older vehicles while they're still living at home and most older vehicles are manual. My situation of learning to drive as an adult who is not going to borrow their parent's car is a bit different. At my age I'll statistically need a lot more lessons than a younger driver to pass in the first place, so I decided to not take all those extra lessons for a manual on top of that to save a little bit of money.
I'm surprised it's not a seperate license there, does that mean if you passed your driving test in an automatic, you could still legally drive a manual even though the driving examinator has no idea if you are actually able to do it?
Yes, that's true. Lol, I learned to drive a stick the way all my friends did. Out behind a Sears Store that had a gigantic parking lot. It happened that my boyfriend owned the stick-shift car (BMW 2002tii) and we both worked at Sears. It cost me nothing.
The high School parking lot for me.
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I'm a learner driver in Europe and I'm choosing to only learn to drive an automatic. I'm not going to own a car, I'm only going to use company cars (full fleet is electric) and maybe rent a car very occasionally, and all the cheap rentals are electric these days. I don't expect to rent a car more than once a year seeing as I've succesfully lived for 31 years without a driver's license. In almost all cases it's cheaper to get large stuff delivered rather than rent a car to pick it up and everyone I visit lives near major transit hubs. If it wasn't for my job I would never have gotten a license.
I could spend a ton of extra money to also learn how to drive and get a license for a manual car, but it's 2021, chances of me ever getting into a situation where I would need to drive a stick car are so low that it's simply not worth spending the extra €500 or so in lessons. 10 years from now petrol cars have probably disappeared.
I was going to say that learning to drive stick is a valuable life skill, then realized I would sound like the people who thought that "slipstick" (sliderule*) skills would always be valuable.
"What about when the batteries die" -- a semi-valid concern for early electronic calculators
I lost, then refound my 1st college calculator many year later, and it still worked on 8+ year old batteries. My grad school calculator (30 years ago) still works on the 1st battery replacement.
*I now realize that I have to put in the definition of slderule https://www.thefreedictionary.com/slide+rule
However, hearing the stories of USA colleagues who didn't know stick driving before picking up a car in Paris are priceless-kostenlos for me, very pricey for Avis France :-) **
Downshifting from 5th to 2nd at over 110km/hr (70mph) on the Autoroute (Freeway, Autobahn)
Not knowing how to get into reverse (VW, pull up on gearswitch, then place in reverse) at the wrong Autoroute toll booth lane and having to manually push the car back far enough to get into the correct lane.
Parking on slope (me). Result, one stone marker forward knocked over, one tree behind bashed into.
I only had 5 or so CAR stick experiences before trying to follow a colleague out of Paris CDG Terminal 2 at an excessive speed. I had been riding motorcycles (almost all of which were manual) so I had a good grasp (no pun intended) of clutch operation.
**I'm sure Avis France shudders when a certain well known US logo on a shirt shows up at the counter. If not, they should. Many stories of destruction beyond just stick misuse.
But they got us one time, since we were Americans and they assumed automatic only, which pushed the price range way up. A colleague and I got a Citron C6 -- very nice car, good enough for the French President https://automobile.fandom.com/wiki/State_Limousines_of_France, good enough for us. The bean counters were enraged that we accepted a Euro6000/month car.
I was teaching college level classes in 2009-2010, and none of the students in those classes had any idea what a slide rule was.
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I'm a learner driver in Europe and I'm choosing to only learn to drive an automatic. I'm not going to own a car, I'm only going to use company cars (full fleet is electric) and maybe rent a car very occasionally, and all the cheap rentals are electric these days. I don't expect to rent a car more than once a year seeing as I've succesfully lived for 31 years without a driver's license. In almost all cases it's cheaper to get large stuff delivered rather than rent a car to pick it up and everyone I visit lives near major transit hubs. If it wasn't for my job I would never have gotten a license.
I could spend a ton of extra money to also learn how to drive and get a license for a manual car, but it's 2021, chances of me ever getting into a situation where I would need to drive a stick car are so low that it's simply not worth spending the extra €500 or so in lessons. 10 years from now petrol cars have probably disappeared.
I was going to say that learning to drive stick is a valuable life skill, then realized I would sound like the people who thought that "slipstick" (sliderule*) skills would always be valuable.
"What about when the batteries die" -- a semi-valid concern for early electronic calculators
I lost, then refound my 1st college calculator many year later, and it still worked on 8+ year old batteries. My grad school calculator (30 years ago) still works on the 1st battery replacement.
*I now realize that I have to put in the definition of slderule https://www.thefreedictionary.com/slide+rule
However, hearing the stories of USA colleagues who didn't know stick driving before picking up a car in Paris are priceless-kostenlos for me, very pricey for Avis France :-) **
Downshifting from 5th to 2nd at over 110km/hr (70mph) on the Autoroute (Freeway, Autobahn)
Not knowing how to get into reverse (VW, pull up on gearswitch, then place in reverse) at the wrong Autoroute toll booth lane and having to manually push the car back far enough to get into the correct lane.
Parking on slope (me). Result, one stone marker forward knocked over, one tree behind bashed into.
I only had 5 or so CAR stick experiences before trying to follow a colleague out of Paris CDG Terminal 2 at an excessive speed. I had been riding motorcycles (almost all of which were manual) so I had a good grasp (no pun intended) of clutch operation.
**I'm sure Avis France shudders when a certain well known US logo on a shirt shows up at the counter. If not, they should. Many stories of destruction beyond just stick misuse.
But they got us one time, since we were Americans and they assumed automatic only, which pushed the price range way up. A colleague and I got a Citron C6 -- very nice car, good enough for the French President https://automobile.fandom.com/wiki/State_Limousines_of_France, good enough for us. The bean counters were enraged that we accepted a Euro6000/month car.
I was teaching college level classes in 2009-2010, and none of the students in those classes had any idea what a slide rule was.
I'm just a couple years older than your students were, and while I know what a slide rule is I do not know how to use it.
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Is it a separate license for driving a manual vs an automatic?
In the Netherlands it is, yes. A manual license is considered a "full" license, an automatic is a partial license. If you pass the manual driving test you are also allowed to drive an automatic but not the other way round. If you want to get a full license rather than just an automatic license, you can expect to need 5-10 extra driving lessons on average to learn the skill of using a stick (at €65/lesson). Most kids who get their license at 18 do learn to drive a stick because they're going to use their parents' older vehicles while they're still living at home and most older vehicles are manual. My situation of learning to drive as an adult who is not going to borrow their parent's car is a bit different. At my age I'll statistically need a lot more lessons than a younger driver to pass in the first place, so I decided to not take all those extra lessons for a manual on top of that to save a little bit of money.
I'm surprised it's not a seperate license there, does that mean if you passed your driving test in an automatic, you could still legally drive a manual even though the driving examinator has no idea if you are actually able to do it?
It is the same thing in Sweden. I think the big difference in rental car pricing between manual and automatic have mostly dissappeared as automatics are taking over more and more.
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Since we are all putting out funny license stories, my mother learned how to drive agricultural machines 50 years ago in East Germany. (Was part of higher education students had to learn "real work" in the farmer and worker state until a bit later). Think of small tractors.
Even today she is technically allowed to drive those monsters that block 2/3 of country streets. She probably knows less about how to drive them than I do, because I have seen it in a video a few years ago :D
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I have a license for a stick-shift, but didn't drive very often. My friend, who had an automatic company car, allowed me to drive every time we went somewhere together. She had to remind me frequently that just because the stick is automatic, and cruise control is activated, I do still have to engage my brain and apply the brakes!
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The automatic/manual learning curve causes problems both ways. I learned to drive on a manual. I owned nothing but manuals until maybe 10 years ago. I even had a commercial driver's license. Years ago, my (very small) town's manual ambulance needed work and we were given an automatic loaner ambulance in the interim. I had no trouble driving my first ever automatic vehicle (lights and siren) to an emergency call, but once there, I was completely unable to park it on a hill in a high stress situation. (Who knew you had to push a button to park?) Bless the poor firefighter who took over parking so I could treat patients, and d@^^^ the same firefighter who took great pleasure in retelling the story at Holiday parties for years afterwards.
You shouldn't feel bad about that. A pushbutton emergency brake is one of those "features" that some car companies seem to think is a good idea.
I learned to drive in a manual. The first time I drove an automatic, I reverted to habit, tried to press the clutch in to shift gears, and hit the brake pedal instead. Boy, that was an abrupt stop!
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I have a license for a stick-shift, but didn't drive very often. My friend, who had an automatic company car, allowed me to drive every time we went somewhere together. She had to remind me frequently that just because the stick is automatic, and cruise control is activated, I do still have to engage my brain and apply the brakes!
In some Volvo modeld I have driven it automatically breaks when it catches another car. I took a while before I realised that the first time I drove one.
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The first time I drove an automatic I was pulling into a parking spot and thought "Oh, I'm supposed to put the lever in 'P' when I park", so I threw it into Park while I was still doing maybe 10mph. Oops, screech! It wasn't my car, either. No damage, afaik.
I gave up driving stick when I had a work commute that involved a couple of thousand gear changes at 0-25mph...it was just too much. Now I work from home and barely drive at all :)
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On vacation several years back, we rented a car that was very similar to my car at home, only manual instead of automatic (can’t get the manual version here). After two weeks of driving the manual, we flew back and jumped in my car for the trip home. I jammed my left foot into the floorboards a few times only to discover there was no clutch. Then I had the automatic transmission in manual mode and intended to shift up from 3rd to 4th as I passed someone on a hill, but instead downshifted from 3rd to 2nd at about 60 mph (I pushed the lever in what would have been the right direction if I had still been in the rental). It was a big surprise, and I was probably lucky not to be rear-ended after such an abrupt slowdown with no brake lights. Later in the drive, the alternator failed. Maybe it was age, maybe it was the 11-year-old battery, or maybe it was because I shifted wrong.
tl;dr switching between manual and automatic versions of the same car can cause confusion and cost a lot of money.
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On vacation several years back, we rented a car that was very similar to my car at home, only manual instead of automatic (can’t get the manual version here). After two weeks of driving the manual, we flew back and jumped in my car for the trip home. I jammed my left food into the floorboards a few times only to discover there was no clutch. Then I had the automatic transmission in manual mode and intended to shift up from 3rd to 4th as I passed someone on a hill, but instead downshifted from 3rd to 2nd at about 60 mph (I pushed the lever in what would have been the right direction if I had still been in the rental). It was a big surprise, and I was probably lucky not to be rear-ended after such an abrupt slowdown with no brake lights. Later in the drive, the alternator failed. Maybe it was age, maybe it was the 11-year-old battery, or maybe it was because I shifted wrong.
tl;dr switching between manual and automatic versions of the same car can cause confusion and cost a lot of money.
I always had manual transmission cars from the time I bought my first one. Then I married a guy who suuuuucked at driving stick. After months of listening to him grind my gears every time he shifted, the next car I bought, I got an automatic.
Those first few months were HARD. I used to have to jam my left leg/foot all the way back and against the driver's seat door so I wouldn't forget and mistakenly push the brake thinking it was the clutch. I finally got used to it, but it took a lot longer than I thought it would.
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Glad I’m not the only one who slams the brake when i switch from manual to auto (haven’t driven manual in a long time though)
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An older one (as in, seen in my previous job, about 6 years ago): my boss, Head of an International Legal Department in a company of about 40,000 employees, had a pinstripe suit changed into a very elegant pinstripe dress. It was much cheaper to change the suit than to buy a new dress.
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An older one (as in, seen in my previous job, about 6 years ago): my boss, Head of an International Legal Department in a company of about 40,000 employees, had a pinstripe suit changed into a very elegant pinstripe dress. It was much cheaper to change the suit than to buy a new dress.
Interesting. Was the dress for themselves, or someone else?
Either way, sounds like a good use of resources.
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I had to think about that for a moment, and then, challenging my innate biases, I realized that perhaps the boss was a woman who decided she would like a dress rather than a pantsuit. Or I could be wrong?
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I had to think about that for a moment, and then, challenging my innate biases, I realized that perhaps the boss was a woman who decided she would like a dress rather than a pantsuit. Or I could be wrong?
Isn't it also biased to assume they are a woman? Couldn't a man also want a dress?
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I had to think about that for a moment, and then, challenging my innate biases, I realized that perhaps the boss was a woman who decided she would like a dress rather than a pantsuit. Or I could be wrong?
Isn't it also biased to assume they are a woman? Couldn't a man also want a dress?
It doesn’t really matter for the story, though, does it? I’m more confused about how a suit can be made into a (nice enough that it’s worth the expense of having it altered so radically) dress, but then again I’m kinda sartorially challenged.
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I had to think about that for a moment, and then, challenging my innate biases, I realized that perhaps the boss was a woman who decided she would like a dress rather than a pantsuit. Or I could be wrong?
Isn't it also biased to assume they are a woman? Couldn't a man also want a dress?
It doesn’t really matter for the story, though, does it? I’m more confused about how a suit can be made into a (nice enough that it’s worth the expense of having it altered so radically) dress, but then again I’m kinda sartorially challenged.
That was my issue. I can see taking the fabric from pants for a skirt, but the end result would be a skirted suit, not a dress.
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I had to think about that for a moment, and then, challenging my innate biases, I realized that perhaps the boss was a woman who decided she would like a dress rather than a pantsuit. Or I could be wrong?
Isn't it also biased to assume they are a woman? Couldn't a man also want a dress?
It doesn’t really matter for the story, though, does it? I’m more confused about how a suit can be made into a (nice enough that it’s worth the expense of having it altered so radically) dress, but then again I’m kinda sartorially challenged.
That was my issue. I can see taking the fabric from pants for a skirt, but the end result would be a skirted suit, not a dress.
Unless they lost a LOT of weight
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I had to think about that for a moment, and then, challenging my innate biases, I realized that perhaps the boss was a woman who decided she would like a dress rather than a pantsuit. Or I could be wrong?
Isn't it also biased to assume they are a woman? Couldn't a man also want a dress?
It doesn’t really matter for the story, though, does it? I’m more confused about how a suit can be made into a (nice enough that it’s worth the expense of having it altered so radically) dress, but then again I’m kinda sartorially challenged.
That was my issue. I can see taking the fabric from pants for a skirt, but the end result would be a skirted suit, not a dress.
I'm kind of picturing something that looks like a skirted suit, but is really a dress with a peplum. Maybe you'd be able to rework the front opening to look like something other than a suit coat.
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I had to think about that for a moment, and then, challenging my innate biases, I realized that perhaps the boss was a woman who decided she would like a dress rather than a pantsuit. Or I could be wrong?
Isn't it also biased to assume they are a woman? Couldn't a man also want a dress?
It doesn’t really matter for the story, though, does it? I’m more confused about how a suit can be made into a (nice enough that it’s worth the expense of having it altered so radically) dress, but then again I’m kinda sartorially challenged.
That was my issue. I can see taking the fabric from pants for a skirt, but the end result would be a skirted suit, not a dress.
I'm kind of picturing something that looks like a skirted suit, but is really a dress with a peplum. Maybe you'd be able to rework the front opening to look like something other than a suit coat.
You guys should look this up on Pinterest or YouTube. I've seen several great examples of this. It helps if it's a baggy suit or if you've lost weight, but if you take apart the jacket there's usually more than enough fabric for the top half of a dress. You just have to pay attention to how you piece it all together.
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Happily, my work clothes are nowadays either very sporty and comfortable (think merino wool thermal underwear with some kind of outdoor trousers for the commute) for when I’m alone in the office or nice and comfortable (nice stretchy dresses, which feel more or less like nightgowns but are legit work dresses) for when I’m meeting customers. I haven’t worn a pantsuit in about a decade. I hope I will never have to get or wear one again.
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I had to think about that for a moment, and then, challenging my innate biases, I realized that perhaps the boss was a woman who decided she would like a dress rather than a pantsuit. Or I could be wrong?
Isn't it also biased to assume they are a woman? Couldn't a man also want a dress?
It doesn’t really matter for the story, though, does it? I’m more confused about how a suit can be made into a (nice enough that it’s worth the expense of having it altered so radically) dress, but then again I’m kinda sartorially challenged.
That was my issue. I can see taking the fabric from pants for a skirt, but the end result would be a skirted suit, not a dress.
I'm kind of picturing something that looks like a skirted suit, but is really a dress with a peplum. Maybe you'd be able to rework the front opening to look like something other than a suit coat.
You guys should look this up on Pinterest or YouTube. I've seen several great examples of this. It helps if it's a baggy suit or if you've lost weight, but if you take apart the jacket there's usually more than enough fabric for the top half of a dress. You just have to pay attention to how you piece it all together.
It was/is a woman. The pants were flared, and the lady really slim. Plenty of fabric for the seamstress to work with for a kneelength dress. It became a wraparound with a bow on the left, if I remember correctly.
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I seem to have killed the thread :)
I have another example to revive it!
My current boss (of our 3-person NGO, makes about €8.000/month gross) on the phone with her husband, who seems to be in a supermarket: "well, you need 1kg of sugar for 1kg of fruit. Oh, not enough sugar on the shelf? You know what, I still have some sachets of pectin at home from that trial we did a few years ago; we'll use those."
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I seem to have killed the thread :)
I have another example to revive it!
My current boss (of our 3-person NGO, makes about €8.000/month gross) on the phone with her husband, who seems to be in a supermarket: "well, you need 1kg of sugar for 1kg of fruit. Oh, not enough sugar on the shelf? You know what, I still have some sachets of pectin at home from that trial we did a few years ago; we'll use those."
What? Where does she live, a fucking McMansion? She should have used that up years ago and make space!!!
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She lives in a well-built well-designed detached house (definitely not a McMansion) where her 3 sons grew up, who have now moved out. She has a basement, an attic and a pantry. And a veg & fruit plot :)
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I seem to have killed the thread :)
It’s an 8 year old thread most of the early commenters are no longer at work
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I seem to have killed the thread :)
It’s an 8 year old thread most of the early commenters are no longer at work
Also, of those still working, more might be working from home/remote, or on a hybrid cycle, hence less workplace stories to share.
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At work, the president and I fixed a toilet this morning. The flush handle had broken. Somebody went through the trouble of putting up "out of order" signs, putting tape across the toilet, and going to the hardware store to buy a replacement....but then left it at that, despite the illustrated instructions on the back of the packaging.
Our company has always been kind of...scrappy?, and the president wants to keep it that way. By "scrappy" I mean we try to be resourceful and figure out how to solve problems instead of just throwing money at them. The president is more than willing to spend money where it makes sense, but if a toilet get plugged or a light bulb burns out, it's fine for a senior engineer to go fix it. As the company grows, he's trying to avoid the bloat, inefficiency and corporate-style hogwash that commonly creeps in. It's tough. We have one admin who is continually pushing to "civilize" (my term) the company--she spent a few days painting her office (with permission) and circulates birthday cards every month for people to sign, and we now have monthly company cookouts, and when I arrived today there were two large flower pots flanking the entrance.
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How many senior engineers do you need in a bog corporation to fix a light bulb?
None, because it's forbidden. You have to do a bidding process and give it to the cheapest outside company, because that is more efficient!
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How many senior engineers do you need in a bog corporation to fix a light bulb?
None, because it's forbidden. You have to do a bidding process and give it to the cheapest outside company, because that is more efficient!
I once witnessed two senior engineers spend two days dismantling and repairing a coffee maker. Roughly $3800 at our bill rate to avoid $500 for a new machine. The repair lasted about 2 months.
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How many senior engineers do you need in a bog corporation to fix a light bulb?
None, because it's forbidden. You have to do a bidding process and give it to the cheapest outside company, because that is more efficient!
I once witnessed two senior engineers spend two days dismantling and repairing a coffee maker. Roughly $3800 at our bill rate to avoid $500 for a new machine. The repair lasted about 2 months.
Yes, but their enjoyment was priceless.
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How many senior engineers do you need in a bog corporation to fix a light bulb?
None, because it's forbidden. You have to do a bidding process and give it to the cheapest outside company, because that is more efficient!
I once witnessed two senior engineers spend two days dismantling and repairing a coffee maker. Roughly $3800 at our bill rate to avoid $500 for a new machine. The repair lasted about 2 months.
Reminds me of an anecdote someone sent to Scott Adams and he put in his first Dilbert book. Copy machine was broken, so a couple engineers took it all apart to make it “easier” for the technician to fix. Uh, not so much. I don’t remember the actual defect but it was something that is simple to diagnose and even simpler to fix…assuming the machine is together.
There’s a lot of counter examples as well of course. I’ve seen a dump truck (about a million bucks each all in) product line fixed by one real damn clever engineer who was not even involved in product engineering. Rear wheel assemblies where going to fall off, which is not the best thing to happen with a loaded truck.
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One day in lunchroom
Well, we have lots of credit card debt, but it really isn’t a big deal. We just pay it at 0%. And then when we haven’t paid it off, we just transfer it to another card at 0%. So it really isn’t a big deal, because it is all at 0%.
Seems like a great way to build wealth….
Same person said on another occasion they and their husband have no plan to retire and will just work until they die.
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One day in lunchroom
Well, we have lots of credit card debt, but it really isn’t a big deal. We just pay it at 0%. And then when we haven’t paid it off, we just transfer it to another card at 0%. So it really isn’t a big deal, because it is all at 0%.
Seems like a great way to build wealth….
Same person said on another occasion they and their husband have no plan to retire and will just work until they die.
Tried that - the X factor for me is the stress around only actually having ~1-2 years locked in at the 3-5% fee. Effectively getting a pretty good interest rate so long as you can roll-over at the end of the promotional interest rate. Those 0% offers went away for a while in 2020 (at least the standing ones on existing cards did). They have come back but the risk of not being able to do the rollover remains pretty front-of-mind for me. So I'm unwinding it for non-financial reasons. I probably should have done this move much earlier than I did - raising $30K via balance transfers when you've only got $30K has more impact compared to doing so when you've got another zero or two.
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I've never seen a 0% rollover offer that didn't come with an up-front fee that amounted to several % of the balance.
Do 0% fee, 0% interest offers really exist?
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I've never seen a 0% rollover offer that didn't come with an up-front fee that amounted to several % of the balance.
Do 0% fee, 0% interest offers really exist?
Supposedly Navy Federal has one. I joined with them so that a family member could join through me and attempt to get that offer.
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I've never seen a 0% rollover offer that didn't come with an up-front fee that amounted to several % of the balance.
Do 0% fee, 0% interest offers really exist?
I got a 0/0 offer from Chase Slate back in early 2017. I put the last $12k we owed on it and paid it off before the interest-free period ran out.
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The 0% offers have come back in full force here. I get several emails, mailers, etc. per day telling me about them. Most are at a 3-4% fee, but the local credit union does offer one without a transfer fee. In my experience, those are the places to look if you want to try to find one.
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I've never seen a 0% rollover offer that didn't come with an up-front fee that amounted to several % of the balance.
Do 0% fee, 0% interest offers really exist?
I imagine it is possible for a 0/0 offer, probably as an enticement for a new card, but I'm usually viewing "4% fee, 0% interest for 16 months" or whatever a particular card offers as pretty cheap money. Not as good a deal as a sub 4% 30 year mortgage because there's no guarantee you'll be able to make a transfer for those same "4% fee, 0% interest for 16 month" term down the road vs. the 30 year fixed interest rate with a mortgage, but if we're only looking at the monetary costs of borrowing, paying a 3-5% fee every 12-24 months while enjoying 0% interest is on-par, sometimes better with fixed mortgage interest rates.
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At least once a week I get a letter in the mail from Citi inviting me to take advantage of it. I often get the opportunity to do so with discovery as well.
If I were more entrepreneurial, I would take out say 10k in credit card loans and purchase iBonds with them. Even with the 3% charge, I would make money guaranteed in the amount of time the loans would be valid for. However, I am not that entrepreneurial, and prefer to just not have credit card debt.
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At least once a week I get a letter in the mail from Citi inviting me to take advantage of it. I often get the opportunity to do so with discovery as well.
If I were more entrepreneurial, I would take out say 10k in credit card loans and purchase iBonds with them. Even with the 3% charge, I would make money guaranteed in the amount of time the loans would be valid for. However, I am not that entrepreneurial, and prefer to just not have credit card debt.
The problem with that credit card debt is that it has to be repaid regardless of whether the investment keeps up with inflation. I find that when I carry consumer debt, even if I'm in a position to pay it all off instantly, I have a higher level of free-floating stress than I would have otherwise.
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At least once a week I get a letter in the mail from Citi inviting me to take advantage of it. I often get the opportunity to do so with discovery as well.
If I were more entrepreneurial, I would take out say 10k in credit card loans and purchase iBonds with them. Even with the 3% charge, I would make money guaranteed in the amount of time the loans would be valid for. However, I am not that entrepreneurial, and prefer to just not have credit card debt.
The problem with that credit card debt is that it has to be repaid regardless of whether the investment keeps up with inflation. I find that when I carry consumer debt, even if I'm in a position to pay it all off instantly, I have a higher level of free-floating stress than I would have otherwise.
We are floating part of our ibonds purchase on a 0% cc (so not even the loan fee) at the moment. I only stress about how much to pay for a few minutes each month.
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At least once a week I get a letter in the mail from Citi inviting me to take advantage of it. I often get the opportunity to do so with discovery as well.
If I were more entrepreneurial, I would take out say 10k in credit card loans and purchase iBonds with them. Even with the 3% charge, I would make money guaranteed in the amount of time the loans would be valid for. However, I am not that entrepreneurial, and prefer to just not have credit card debt.
The problem with that credit card debt is that it has to be repaid regardless of whether the investment keeps up with inflation. I find that when I carry consumer debt, even if I'm in a position to pay it all off instantly, I have a higher level of free-floating stress than I would have otherwise.
We are floating part of our ibonds purchase on a 0% cc (so not even the loan fee) at the moment. I only stress about how much to pay for a few minutes each month.
Can you use a credit card at the Treasury Direct site?
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I don’t believe you can buy the iBonds directly with a credit card, but maybe there is a way.
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At least once a week I get a letter in the mail from Citi inviting me to take advantage of it. I often get the opportunity to do so with discovery as well.
If I were more entrepreneurial, I would take out say 10k in credit card loans and purchase iBonds with them. Even with the 3% charge, I would make money guaranteed in the amount of time the loans would be valid for. However, I am not that entrepreneurial, and prefer to just not have credit card debt.
The problem with that credit card debt is that it has to be repaid regardless of whether the investment keeps up with inflation. I find that when I carry consumer debt, even if I'm in a position to pay it all off instantly, I have a higher level of free-floating stress than I would have otherwise.
We are floating part of our ibonds purchase on a 0% cc (so not even the loan fee) at the moment. I only stress about how much to pay for a few minutes each month.
Can you use a credit card at the Treasury Direct site?
No, we paid for our cruise and some other things with the credit card (as we would have even without the 0% APR) and used our cash to buy Ibonds instead of paying down the card immediately.
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The problem with that credit card debt is that it has to be repaid regardless of whether the investment keeps up with inflation. I find that when I carry consumer debt, even if I'm in a position to pay it all off instantly, I have a higher level of free-floating stress than I would have otherwise.
I hear that. This month, I have a rewards card with a store than is switching from one back to another. I can’t decide if I’ll keep the card, but until I decide, I don’t want a balance switching over to the new bank. Meanwhile, the old bank wasn’t creating a statement. I finally had to just check the balance and pay the monthly bill to the old bank without the statement. (The official account transition date is 8/5.)
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I don’t believe you can buy the iBonds directly with a credit card, but maybe there is a way.
If you overpay your taxes you can get some refund in i bonds . You can pay taxes with a CC but there is a fee.
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Today a coworker mentioned they and their spouse paid off all student loans in two years by keeping to a $120/month grocery budget for that time. This was in the past few years, not 'back in the day'. I'm hoping to be able to ask what else they did, if anything.
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Today a coworker mentioned they and their spouse paid off all student loans in two years by keeping to a $120/month grocery budget for that time. This was in the past few years, not 'back in the day'. I'm hoping to be able to ask what else they did, if anything.
Wow, that is remarkable dedication. Kudos!
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The problem with that credit card debt is that it has to be repaid regardless of whether the investment keeps up with inflation. I find that when I carry consumer debt, even if I'm in a position to pay it all off instantly, I have a higher level of free-floating stress than I would have otherwise.
I hear that. This month, I have a rewards card with a store than is switching from one back to another. I can’t decide if I’ll keep the card, but until I decide, I don’t want a balance switching over to the new bank. Meanwhile, the old bank wasn’t creating a statement. I finally had to just check the balance and pay the monthly bill to the old bank without the statement. (The official account transition date is 8/5.)
I think I have the same rewards card. New interface doesn't seem any worse than the last one. The extra 0.5% cash back elsewhere doesn't matter since I only use the card for the merchant and previously to pay my family phone plan since it provided free insurance. Sadly it seems like that is not carrying over to the new bank.
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I don’t believe you can buy the iBonds directly with a credit card, but maybe there is a way.
If you overpay your taxes you can get some refund in i bonds . You can pay taxes with a CC but there is a fee.
The fee is under 2%, so technically with a good rewards card you could make a slight profit on the transaction. Or use it to meet minimum spend for a signup bonus.
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Coworker just replied to a district wide email with the sentiment “I have no more fucks to give”
https://youtu.be/Vqbk9cDX0l0 (https://youtu.be/Vqbk9cDX0l0)
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Coworker just replied to a district wide email with the sentiment “I have no more fucks to give”
https://youtu.be/Vqbk9cDX0l0 (https://youtu.be/Vqbk9cDX0l0)
thank you for the link.
i like "Well, This is Shit" a wee bit more - so apt with my current long-term contract customer.
and then he sings this:
https://youtu.be/ROAWKuXCTK8
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Coworker just replied to a district wide email with the sentiment “I have no more fucks to give”
https://youtu.be/Vqbk9cDX0l0 (https://youtu.be/Vqbk9cDX0l0)
thank you for the link.
i like "Well, This is Shit" a wee bit more - so apt with my current long-term contract customer.
and then he sings this:
https://youtu.be/ROAWKuXCTK8
And actually even more accurate with our current work issue.
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My colleague (Technical Director, roughly €8,000/month) has announced that he will take a weeklong break the first week of January. He and his wife want to go to Switzerland on vacation, and they have decided that they will volunteer in a hotel for Belgian families-on-a-budget. They will have every afternoon off between 1 and 4, and 1 whole day. He will work in the kitchen, and his wife hopes to work as a nurse (meaning she has to be available 'just in case', but can pretty much do what she wants).
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My colleague (Technical Director, roughly €8,000/month) has announced that he will take a weeklong break the first week of January. He and his wife want to go to Switzerland on vacation, and they have decided that they will volunteer in a hotel for Belgian families-on-a-budget. They will have every afternoon off between 1 and 4, and 1 whole day. He will work in the kitchen, and his wife hopes to work as a nurse (meaning she has to be available 'just in case', but can pretty much do what she wants).
That's sad. Either they are so wasteful with their money they can't afford a vacation, or they're so stingy with their money that they can't let themselves relax and just enjoy themselves.
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My colleague (Technical Director, roughly €8,000/month) has announced that he will take a weeklong break the first week of January. He and his wife want to go to Switzerland on vacation, and they have decided that they will volunteer in a hotel for Belgian families-on-a-budget. They will have every afternoon off between 1 and 4, and 1 whole day. He will work in the kitchen, and his wife hopes to work as a nurse (meaning she has to be available 'just in case', but can pretty much do what she wants).
That's sad. Either they are so wasteful with their money they can't afford a vacation, or they're so stingy with their money that they can't let themselves relax and just enjoy themselves.
Or he really likes cooking?
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My colleague (Technical Director, roughly €8,000/month) has announced that he will take a weeklong break the first week of January. He and his wife want to go to Switzerland on vacation, and they have decided that they will volunteer in a hotel for Belgian families-on-a-budget. They will have every afternoon off between 1 and 4, and 1 whole day. He will work in the kitchen, and his wife hopes to work as a nurse (meaning she has to be available 'just in case', but can pretty much do what she wants).
That's sad. Either they are so wasteful with their money they can't afford a vacation, or they're so stingy with their money that they can't let themselves relax and just enjoy themselves.
I don't know. I think this sounds like it could be a really cool adventure in a foreign country for someone who would enjoy the work involved, plus a good way to meet people. Not everyone wants a vacation in the traditional sense and being behind the scenes offers a unique perspective.
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We have new people in the office today. So made sure to mention, if you aren’t maxing out TSP, with raises, work on getting there. New woman. I’m maxing it out, it hurts, but it’s going to work out.
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My colleague (Technical Director, roughly €8,000/month) has announced that he will take a weeklong break the first week of January. He and his wife want to go to Switzerland on vacation, and they have decided that they will volunteer in a hotel for Belgian families-on-a-budget. They will have every afternoon off between 1 and 4, and 1 whole day. He will work in the kitchen, and his wife hopes to work as a nurse (meaning she has to be available 'just in case', but can pretty much do what she wants).
That's sad. Either they are so wasteful with their money they can't afford a vacation, or they're so stingy with their money that they can't let themselves relax and just enjoy themselves.
I don't know. I think this sounds like it could be a really cool adventure in a foreign country for someone who would enjoy the work involved, plus a good way to meet people. Not everyone wants a vacation in the traditional sense and being behind the scenes offers a unique perspective.
This year (2022) he and his wife been hiking in the Spanish Pyrenees for 2 weeks, touring Finland for 2 weeks, had several weekends away with friends or family, have been hiking in Germany's Black Forest for a week. They just want to give others the opportunity to enjoy a vacation abroad. Nothing sad about it.
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My colleague (Technical Director, roughly €8,000/month) has announced that he will take a weeklong break the first week of January. He and his wife want to go to Switzerland on vacation, and they have decided that they will volunteer in a hotel for Belgian families-on-a-budget. They will have every afternoon off between 1 and 4, and 1 whole day. He will work in the kitchen, and his wife hopes to work as a nurse (meaning she has to be available 'just in case', but can pretty much do what she wants).
That's sad. Either they are so wasteful with their money they can't afford a vacation, or they're so stingy with their money that they can't let themselves relax and just enjoy themselves.
I understood this as being some sort of volunteering holiday? In that case I really appreciate it that a priviliged person is willing to donate their time, not just a bit of money.
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Correct, Imma!
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My colleague (Technical Director, roughly €8,000/month) has announced that he will take a weeklong break the first week of January. He and his wife want to go to Switzerland on vacation, and they have decided that they will volunteer in a hotel for Belgian families-on-a-budget. They will have every afternoon off between 1 and 4, and 1 whole day. He will work in the kitchen, and his wife hopes to work as a nurse (meaning she has to be available 'just in case', but can pretty much do what she wants).
That's sad. Either they are so wasteful with their money they can't afford a vacation, or they're so stingy with their money that they can't let themselves relax and just enjoy themselves.
I understood this as being some sort of volunteering holiday? In that case I really appreciate it that a priviliged person is willing to donate their time, not just a bit of money.
I think if it's done right then it's a great thing. Unfortunately, my views of this kind of thing are tainted by my Southern Baptist upbringing. These kinds of things were mostly framed as "mission trips" and were often more like poverty tourism than actual help.
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That reminds me of something I think in one of the (here) famous books.
A group went to Africa. There the tourists would "help" by painting a classroom. The economist pointed out that it would have been a lot better if the tourists had not spend a day painting a classroom with amateur skills but instead paid a local a day's worth of their income so he can spend a month painting the whole school. (last part is my dramatisation).
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For our non-Belgian viewers: Belgium has a long history of health insurance, youth movements, and something called 'Family Union' (which started out as 'Union of Families with Many Members' to help families where the father (and sons) had died during WW1). All these organisations offer subsidised vacations in nice locations. Often, they have their own holiday building at the seaside, in the woods, or they rent a whole hotel for a month for their members. They keep their costs low by working with volunteers. Belgium has a minimum of 20 vacation days per year, plus 10 christian and national holidays, which are always given; if they fall in the weekend, you can recuperate them on a later date. Most Belgian families have been on at least one of these vacations, and are happy to volunteer on one if life goes well for them. It's not disaster tourism, it's just 'let's do our bit'.
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That reminds me of something I think in one of the (here) famous books.
A group went to Africa. There the tourists would "help" by painting a classroom. The economist pointed out that it would have been a lot better if the tourists had not spend a day painting a classroom with amateur skills but instead paid a local a day's worth of their income so he can spend a month painting the whole school. (last part is my dramatisation).
This is not what the OP is describing. For one, the wife is a nurse who is donating her professional skilled time.
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That reminds me of something I think in one of the (here) famous books.
A group went to Africa. There the tourists would "help" by painting a classroom. The economist pointed out that it would have been a lot better if the tourists had not spend a day painting a classroom with amateur skills but instead paid a local a day's worth of their income so he can spend a month painting the whole school. (last part is my dramatisation).
This is not what the OP is describing. For one, the wife is a nurse who is donating her professional skilled time.
I think he was referring to my post about mission trips being poverty tourism. There's no reason for a bunch of high school kids to sell shitty wrapping paper to pay for a trip somewhere to "help" build schools or whatever for a couple of days then hit the beach.
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That reminds me of something I think in one of the (here) famous books.
A group went to Africa. There the tourists would "help" by painting a classroom. The economist pointed out that it would have been a lot better if the tourists had not spend a day painting a classroom with amateur skills but instead paid a local a day's worth of their income so he can spend a month painting the whole school. (last part is my dramatisation).
This is not what the OP is describing. For one, the wife is a nurse who is donating her professional skilled time.
I think he was referring to my post about mission trips being poverty tourism. There's no reason for a bunch of high school kids to sell shitty wrapping paper to pay for a trip somewhere to "help" build schools or whatever for a couple of days then hit the beach.
Right, but the OP is obviously not about poverty tourism, so I think these comparisons are taking away from the point of that post being added to the anti-antimustchian thread.
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That reminds me of something I think in one of the (here) famous books.
A group went to Africa. There the tourists would "help" by painting a classroom. The economist pointed out that it would have been a lot better if the tourists had not spend a day painting a classroom with amateur skills but instead paid a local a day's worth of their income so he can spend a month painting the whole school. (last part is my dramatisation).
This is not what the OP is describing. For one, the wife is a nurse who is donating her professional skilled time.
I think he was referring to my post about mission trips being poverty tourism. There's no reason for a bunch of high school kids to sell shitty wrapping paper to pay for a trip somewhere to "help" build schools or whatever for a couple of days then hit the beach.
Sure there is. It exposes those high school kids to less fortunate people.
Nothing puts American entitlement in perspective quite like seeing what actual poverty is. Hopefully, the end result is people who do give more throughout their lives.
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Sure there is. It exposes those high school kids to less fortunate people.
Nothing puts American entitlement in perspective quite like seeing what actual poverty is. Hopefully, the end result is people who do give more throughout their lives.
Back when I was married, my step daughter (15) was going on a cruise with her grandmother. The daughter was very upset that I would not buy her new cruise clothes. I tried explaining that she should be grateful just to be able to take a trip like that. But she just insisted that it was unfair because new clothes are expected for a nice vacation.
I sent her on one of those help the poor mission trips the week before the cruise. She spent a week in one of the poorest zip codes in TX, followed by a week of luxury. She came back from those two weeks with a whole new attitude. Even thanked me for the eye opening experience.
I don't recall what that mission trip cost me, but it was a bargain for the lesson she learned.
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Sugaree's the point is that unskilled mission trips typically don't actually help the folks in need. Isn't it quite like Americans to think the biggest takeway from a mission/volunteer trip is that it might change the attitude of their spoiled kids.
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We just live in a rural area, so our kids see the poverty every day. We do caution them about taking too much about how awesome our travels are. Ours kids’ list of top ten vacations is something that most retirees would be happy to have checked off.
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Sugaree's the point is that unskilled mission trips typically don't actually help the folks in need. Isn't it quite like Americans to think the biggest takeway from a mission/volunteer trip is that it might change the attitude of their spoiled kids.
You mean to take a long-term view instead of only looking at the immediate impact?
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Sugaree's the point is that unskilled mission trips typically don't actually help the folks in need. Isn't it quite like Americans to think the biggest takeway from a mission/volunteer trip is that it might change the attitude of their spoiled kids.
Yeah, but does it actually change the attitude of the spoiled kid? My experience is that it does not. They simply suffer through whatever unpleasantness for a few days until the fun part of the trip happens. Or maybe that is just my parents' church's youth group. A great example is feeding the homeless on Thanksgiving. They took an entire busload of kids from Alabama to NYC. For a week. There was maybe 2 days of actual work. But there was plenty of sightseeing and Broadway shows and other touristy crap on the way there (very short tours of Gettysburg, Harper's Ferry, WV, and Washington, DC as I recall). Nevermind the fact that there are homeless people who would appreciate a Thanksgiving meal here. Or that the money raised to drive a bus 1000 miles could have fed how many people? And the kids acted exactly the same the week after Thanksgiving than they did the week before.
And even if the point of the trip is to teach some spoiled kids gratitude, it seems exploitative of the people who you are "helping."
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Exploiting an already vulnerable population so teenagers can learn just doesn’t sit well with me.
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I can only assume that some form of miscommunication is happening. I'm sure that there is a wide range of what actually takes place on these trips, and maybe what some of y'all or your kids did was just a vacation in which the kids spent a day painting a room. Or maybe they just drove by poor people in a bus and waved on their way to the beach. That wasn't my experience.
For several years after hurricane Katrina, the church I attend sent the youth group to the New Orleans area for 1-2 weeks every summer to build houses. Professionals did the framing and electrical, but the kids did about everything else, under the supervision of experts who went with the kids. It wasn't 1-2 days of work and vacation for the rest of the trip. It was work every day until the last day of the trip. The kids got one day off from work on the trip.
I assume you wouldn't consider the process of building houses for hurricane victims as exploiting a vulnerable population, but I'm sure that there are groups that treat these trips more like a vacation than an effort to give their time. But I hope y'all aren't just making assumptions about what happens on these trips without any experience or evidence.
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I can only assume that some form of miscommunication is happening. I'm sure that there is a wide range of what actually takes place on these trips, and maybe what some of y'all or your kids did was just a vacation in which the kids spent a day painting a room. Or maybe they just drove by poor people in a bus and waved on their way to the beach. That wasn't my experience.
For several years after hurricane Katrina, the church I attend sent the youth group to the New Orleans area for 1-2 weeks every summer to build houses. Professionals did the framing and electrical, but the kids did about everything else, under the supervision of experts who went with the kids. It wasn't 1-2 days of work and vacation for the rest of the trip. It was work every day until the last day of the trip. The kids got one day off from work on the trip.
I assume you wouldn't consider the process of building houses for hurricane victims as exploiting a vulnerable population, but I'm sure that there are groups that treat these trips more like a vacation than an effort to give their time. But I hope y'all aren't just making assumptions about what happens on these trips without any experience or evidence.
I mean, I have actually been on these trips. As I said, my view of these kinds of things are tainted by how it was done at my parents' church. I'm glad your group did better. But don't assume that all groups are like that.
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For several years after hurricane Katrina, the church I attend sent the youth group to the New Orleans area for 1-2 weeks every summer to build houses. Professionals did the framing and electrical, but the kids did about everything else, under the supervision of experts who went with the kids. It wasn't 1-2 days of work and vacation for the rest of the trip. It was work every day until the last day of the trip. The kids got one day off from work on the trip.
Yeah, I have feelings about all this that I've never fully reconciled with the views on this forum. I attended a month long mission trip to Africa as a teen. I paid for my trip using some donations and mostly my own money from my high school job. We worked hard while we were there: building houses for part of the trip and working at a pop up medical facility in a remote location for the remainder. At the end of the month we did have 3 days of fun times. That trip changed my whole life. Despite growing up in poverty myself, I had never been anywhere or done anything like it and it was absolutely a building block to who I am today. I wasn't spoiled and it didn't fix me, and that wasn't why I went. Could other local people have done the work I did? Yup, they could have. Could I have just taken an African vacation instead? Sure. What's the difference then? Only the impact it had on me. If we don't discourage travel here on the forums (and we really don't -we even put it on a pedestal), then why would we discourage travel with the bonus of giving?
I do understand that some evangelical church missions are elitist endeavors for back patting and that's gross and problematic, but I think those cases are becoming fewer than they were years ago when they were trendy. There are always people somewhere taking something good and making it about themselves. Just like the news, those are the things that make headlines. I think the majority of people are just somewhere in the middle trying to do their best and make good choices for themselves and their kids.
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I can only assume that some form of miscommunication is happening. I'm sure that there is a wide range of what actually takes place on these trips, and maybe what some of y'all or your kids did was just a vacation in which the kids spent a day painting a room. Or maybe they just drove by poor people in a bus and waved on their way to the beach. That wasn't my experience.
For several years after hurricane Katrina, the church I attend sent the youth group to the New Orleans area for 1-2 weeks every summer to build houses. Professionals did the framing and electrical, but the kids did about everything else, under the supervision of experts who went with the kids. It wasn't 1-2 days of work and vacation for the rest of the trip. It was work every day until the last day of the trip. The kids got one day off from work on the trip.
I assume you wouldn't consider the process of building houses for hurricane victims as exploiting a vulnerable population, but I'm sure that there are groups that treat these trips more like a vacation than an effort to give their time. But I hope y'all aren't just making assumptions about what happens on these trips without any experience or evidence.
Arguing that this is for the community you're visiting still misses the point, though...imagine instead of paying to send all of these unskilled kids (and maybe a couple experts) to travel however many miles to do this work for 'free,' what would have been the impact if that money was used to pay locals to do the work (and if necessary just send those experts)? Unless the population is physically incapable for some reason, what value do these unskilled kids add?
I have no idea about domestic trips, but internationally it's pretty well documented that short-term missionaries with no skills bring little to no long term value, and in some cases they actually damage the local economies because what they're doing for 'free' is something a local could be paid to do, and now they're out of work because 'here come the <whoever> to save the day'. Skilled groups are a different story (ex. MSF/Doctors Without Borders which bring in services that aren't available locally), but before sending a bus of high schoolers anywhere it seems like 'Is this really the best way to help the people we want to serve?' is a pretty basic question to ask.
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I can only assume that some form of miscommunication is happening. I'm sure that there is a wide range of what actually takes place on these trips, and maybe what some of y'all or your kids did was just a vacation in which the kids spent a day painting a room. Or maybe they just drove by poor people in a bus and waved on their way to the beach. That wasn't my experience.
For several years after hurricane Katrina, the church I attend sent the youth group to the New Orleans area for 1-2 weeks every summer to build houses. Professionals did the framing and electrical, but the kids did about everything else, under the supervision of experts who went with the kids. It wasn't 1-2 days of work and vacation for the rest of the trip. It was work every day until the last day of the trip. The kids got one day off from work on the trip.
I assume you wouldn't consider the process of building houses for hurricane victims as exploiting a vulnerable population, but I'm sure that there are groups that treat these trips more like a vacation than an effort to give their time. But I hope y'all aren't just making assumptions about what happens on these trips without any experience or evidence.
Arguing that this is for the community you're visiting still misses the point, though...imagine instead of paying to send all of these unskilled kids (and maybe a couple experts) to travel however many miles to do this work for 'free,' what would have been the impact if that money was used to pay locals to do the work (and if necessary just send those experts)? Unless the population is physically incapable for some reason, what value do these unskilled kids add?
I have no idea about domestic trips, but internationally it's pretty well documented that short-term missionaries with no skills bring little to no long term value, and in some cases they actually damage the local economies because what they're doing for 'free' is something a local could be paid to do, and now they're out of work because 'here come the <whoever> to save the day'. Skilled groups are a different story (ex. MSF/Doctors Without Borders which bring in services that aren't available locally), but before sending a bus of high schoolers anywhere it seems like 'Is this really the best way to help the people we want to serve?' is a pretty basic question to ask.
"Your way of helping others isn't good enough."
That seems like a condensed version of your argument, which I would say only holds water if 100% of your money beyond what is necessary to meet your basic needs goes to charity. Otherwise, it comes across as a bit hypocritical to me.
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I think it’s worth evaluating whether an action is really producing the effects one hopes/assumes it will.
https://www.theperspective.com/debates/living/service-trips-abroad-harmful-helpful/
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I can only assume that some form of miscommunication is happening. I'm sure that there is a wide range of what actually takes place on these trips, and maybe what some of y'all or your kids did was just a vacation in which the kids spent a day painting a room. Or maybe they just drove by poor people in a bus and waved on their way to the beach. That wasn't my experience.
For several years after hurricane Katrina, the church I attend sent the youth group to the New Orleans area for 1-2 weeks every summer to build houses. Professionals did the framing and electrical, but the kids did about everything else, under the supervision of experts who went with the kids. It wasn't 1-2 days of work and vacation for the rest of the trip. It was work every day until the last day of the trip. The kids got one day off from work on the trip.
I assume you wouldn't consider the process of building houses for hurricane victims as exploiting a vulnerable population, but I'm sure that there are groups that treat these trips more like a vacation than an effort to give their time. But I hope y'all aren't just making assumptions about what happens on these trips without any experience or evidence.
Arguing that this is for the community you're visiting still misses the point, though...imagine instead of paying to send all of these unskilled kids (and maybe a couple experts) to travel however many miles to do this work for 'free,' what would have been the impact if that money was used to pay locals to do the work (and if necessary just send those experts)? Unless the population is physically incapable for some reason, what value do these unskilled kids add?
I have no idea about domestic trips, but internationally it's pretty well documented that short-term missionaries with no skills bring little to no long term value, and in some cases they actually damage the local economies because what they're doing for 'free' is something a local could be paid to do, and now they're out of work because 'here come the <whoever> to save the day'. Skilled groups are a different story (ex. MSF/Doctors Without Borders which bring in services that aren't available locally), but before sending a bus of high schoolers anywhere it seems like 'Is this really the best way to help the people we want to serve?' is a pretty basic question to ask.
"Your way of helping others isn't good enough."
That seems like a condensed version of your argument, which I would say only holds water if 100% of your money beyond what is necessary to meet your basic needs goes to charity. Otherwise, it comes across as a bit hypocritical to me.
The point of a church mission is service to others, correct? If I'm mistaken and it's for the good of the church's own congregation that's a different calculation, obviously, but while personally I'm not a church, if the volunteer work I do was shown to be actively hurtful rather than helpful (which is true of international short-term missions, again, haven't seen any information on domestic) I'm not sure how it wouldn't be my responsibility to stop and think if this is something I should really be doing. It's not a question of 'your way of helping others isn't good enough' it's a very basic 'is my way of helping others actually helping?' If even asking for that evaluation makes someone defensive...maybe that's also something to think about.
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Certainly it's not a black-and-white, is-or-isn't helpful question. It's a spectrum, with "actually harmful" on one extreme, "truly beneficial" on the other, and "helpful, but really inefficient" in the middle.
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Certainly it's not a black-and-white, is-or-isn't helpful question. It's a spectrum, with "actually harmful" on one extreme, "truly beneficial" on the other, and "helpful, but really inefficient" in the middle.
There's especially a lot of hate for religion-based charity missions here, but honestly doesn't a lot of charity work and volunteering dit the "helpful but inefficient" label? Should that be a reason not to do it? Personally I don't necessarily think so.
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Certainly it's not a black-and-white, is-or-isn't helpful question. It's a spectrum, with "actually harmful" on one extreme, "truly beneficial" on the other, and "helpful, but really inefficient" in the middle.
There's especially a lot of hate for religion-based charity missions here, but honestly doesn't a lot of charity work and volunteering dit the "helpful but inefficient" label? Should that be a reason not to do it? Personally I don't necessarily think so.
Feed My Starving Children falls into this category as well, IMO. It'd be far more efficient to have machines pack the meals. That said, getting people to donate money would be a lot harder without the engagement provided by actually packing those meals.
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Certainly it's not a black-and-white, is-or-isn't helpful question. It's a spectrum, with "actually harmful" on one extreme, "truly beneficial" on the other, and "helpful, but really inefficient" in the middle.
There is such a thing as "actually harmful" in the world of charitable tourism. When untrained people are sent into disaster areas where they don't have any useful skills (equipment operator, nurse, engineer, search and rescue, etc.), and they don't even speak the local language well enough to tell when someone is asking for a drink of water, they are worse than useless. The only things they can do are the things that any unskilled local person could do. Meanwhile, they consume food, water, and accommodations that could be given to some local person who has just lost his or her home. Without the ability to understand the local language, they also consume the attention of a minder or babysitter of some kind, lest they endanger themselves and everyone else around them.
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"Your way of helping others isn't good enough."
That seems like a condensed version of your argument, which I would say only holds water if 100% of your money beyond what is necessary to meet your basic needs goes to charity. Otherwise, it comes across as a bit hypocritical to me.
I definitely get your point, and it was my first thought too. HOWEVER, I also try really really hard to learn things that I don't know.
We've never done any kind of foreign volunteer work, and I only know 1 or 2 unskilled people who have done this. (But many skilled people like nurses.) So, I don't have a dog in this race.
It never would have occurred to me that these could be actually harmful, until I read the link posted here and did some more reading.
Just like, a lot of people fly for vacations all the time and never consider the climate implications - (I mean, some do, and they do other things to offset their climate effects, cut back on travel, etc. etc. - it's a spectrum), and some people don't think about the effects of sending money/ aid to Africa, etc. (Because, well, you don't know what you don't know...there are lots of things that I don't know, and unless I read books and stuff about it...I never will.)
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Certainly it's not a black-and-white, is-or-isn't helpful question. It's a spectrum, with "actually harmful" on one extreme, "truly beneficial" on the other, and "helpful, but really inefficient" in the middle.
There's especially a lot of hate for religion-based charity missions here, but honestly doesn't a lot of charity work and volunteering dit the "helpful but inefficient" label? Should that be a reason not to do it? Personally I don't necessarily think so.
Feed My Starving Children falls into this category as well, IMO. It'd be far more efficient to have machines pack the meals. That said, getting people to donate money would be a lot harder without the engagement provided by actually packing those meals.
I'd never heard of that particular charity, but yes, I think it would be difficult to get any donations at all without those events. The same goes for local foodbanks and church soup kitchens. When people volunteer with a soup kitchen or a foodbank, for many people that's the first time they're confronted with food insecure people in their own community, other than the local homeless population. It would be way more efficient if all people donated money and the foodbank would buy supplies in bulk (which of course they also d) but I think they would get far less monetary donations without their food drives in grocery stores and churches. When we see foodbank volunteers in the grocery store, who tell the story of our local foodbank, what the average person using the foodbank has to spend, what kind of food they might get, what kind of circumstances go people in the position of having to rely on the food bank, and then the actual act of purchasing some canned food especially for those people, that kind of engagement often leads to more involvement (and maybe cash donations) in the future.
Of course this doesn't apply to actually harmful stuff like unskilled people going into a disaster area. That's obviously an extremely stupid idea.
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Certainly it's not a black-and-white, is-or-isn't helpful question. It's a spectrum, with "actually harmful" on one extreme, "truly beneficial" on the other, and "helpful, but really inefficient" in the middle.
There's especially a lot of hate for religion-based charity missions here, but honestly doesn't a lot of charity work and volunteering dit the "helpful but inefficient" label? Should that be a reason not to do it? Personally I don't necessarily think so.
Feed My Starving Children falls into this category as well, IMO. It'd be far more efficient to have machines pack the meals. That said, getting people to donate money would be a lot harder without the engagement provided by actually packing those meals.
I'd never heard of that particular charity, but yes, I think it would be difficult to get any donations at all without those events. The same goes for local foodbanks and church soup kitchens. When people volunteer with a soup kitchen or a foodbank, for many people that's the first time they're confronted with food insecure people in their own community, other than the local homeless population. It would be way more efficient if all people donated money and the foodbank would buy supplies in bulk (which of course they also d) but I think they would get far less monetary donations without their food drives in grocery stores and churches. When we see foodbank volunteers in the grocery store, who tell the story of our local foodbank, what the average person using the foodbank has to spend, what kind of food they might get, what kind of circumstances go people in the position of having to rely on the food bank, and then the actual act of purchasing some canned food especially for those people, that kind of engagement often leads to more involvement (and maybe cash donations) in the future.
Of course this doesn't apply to actually harmful stuff like unskilled people going into a disaster area. That's obviously an extremely stupid idea.
But it's not just a "disaster zone." Sending teenagers who can't speak the language and will be disrupting the local economy in a high poverty area is also kind of a stupid idea.
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And… back to anti-antimustachian work stories. Anyone? Anyone?
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And… back to anti-antimustachian work stories. Anyone? Anyone?
Here's a short one: my company's CEO's wife shops for clothes at Salvation Army and Goodwill most of the time. CEO has a seven-figure income.
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My cousin’s ex-husband was head of a bank in the Bay Area in the 1980’s. He bought all his suits at Goodwill. I always admire that.
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My cousin’s ex-husband was head of a bank in the Bay Area in the 1980’s. He bought all his suits at Goodwill. I always admire that.
I bought a matching jacket and pants for $13 at GW as part of my Halloween costume, and it dawned on me that a single t-shirt now costs more than a suit. I could wear suits every day for less than the cost of keeping a fleet of unstained t-shirts.
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My cousin’s ex-husband was head of a bank in the Bay Area in the 1980’s. He bought all his suits at Goodwill. I always admire that.
I bought a matching jacket and pants for $13 at GW as part of my Halloween costume, and it dawned on me that a single t-shirt now costs more than a suit. I could wear suits every day for less than the cost of keeping a fleet of unstained t-shirts.
Sort of. A suit requires a few more accessories and isn't machine washable, but I like the way you're thinking.
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My cousin’s ex-husband was head of a bank in the Bay Area in the 1980’s. He bought all his suits at Goodwill. I always admire that.
I bought a matching jacket and pants for $13 at GW as part of my Halloween costume, and it dawned on me that a single t-shirt now costs more than a suit. I could wear suits every day for less than the cost of keeping a fleet of unstained t-shirts.
How much are Tshirts at Goodwill?
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My husband is African, and we always collect items to send to his (really poor) relatives. We send a sea container full of stuff about every other year, and every time someone we know sends a car or truck to his mother country, we fill it up. Debate about whether this is helping or hurting aside, we receive quite a lot of clothes from friends for further distribution. I always pick through the bags to check for quality of the items, and regularly find something that fits me, but is in a completely different style to what I usually wear. I will wear it a few times, even to work, then (usually) put it back in the donation bag (clean :D). It's a fun and free way to try out different styles and fabrics.
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My husband is African, and we always collect items to send to his (really poor) relatives. We send a sea container full of stuff about every other year, and every time someone we know sends a car or truck to his mother country, we fill it up. Debate about whether this is helping or hurting aside, we receive quite a lot of clothes from friends for further distribution. I always pick through the bags to check for quality of the items, and regularly find something that fits me, but is in a completely different style to what I usually wear. I will wear it a few times, even to work, then (usually) put it back in the donation bag (clean :D). It's a fun and free way to try out different styles and fabrics.
There are a lot of businesses in Africa who sell these clothes. It helps many people. Not local weavers, etc., but then again, factory produced consumer goods are rarely good for any artisans.
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Here's a short one: my company's CEO's wife shops for clothes at Salvation Army and Goodwill most of the time. CEO has a seven-figure income.
I had a friend whose husband was a Navy officer. Over the years he got promoted, until the day she told me she was pretty sure she was the only admiral's wife who shopped at Goodwill.
Although who knows....
In November, a couple of years ago, I ran into the wife of the university president at the local thrift store. She a has a bunch of grandchildren and she had a cart full of velvet dresses and Christmas pajamas.
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Here's a short one: my company's CEO's wife shops for clothes at Salvation Army and Goodwill most of the time. CEO has a seven-figure income.
I had a friend whose husband was a Navy officer. Over the years he got promoted, until the day she told me she was pretty sure she was the only admiral's wife who shopped at Goodwill.
Although who knows....
In November, a couple of years ago, I ran into the wife of the university president at the local thrift store. She a has a bunch of grandchildren and she had a cart full of velvet dresses and Christmas pajamas.
A professor I know does the same. She is "only" an assistant prof, and profs aren't exactly known for being smartly dressed, but she outdresses everyone else and it's entirely second-hand. She is constantly selling the clothes back to the second-hand stores after she wears them a few times, and replacing them, so she always has something new.
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Here's a short one: my company's CEO's wife shops for clothes at Salvation Army and Goodwill most of the time. CEO has a seven-figure income.
I had a friend whose husband was a Navy officer. Over the years he got promoted, until the day she told me she was pretty sure she was the only admiral's wife who shopped at Goodwill.
Although who knows....
In November, a couple of years ago, I ran into the wife of the university president at the local thrift store. She a has a bunch of grandchildren and she had a cart full of velvet dresses and Christmas pajamas.
A professor I know does the same. She is "only" an assistant prof, and profs aren't exactly known for being smartly dressed, but she outdresses everyone else and it's entirely second-hand. She is constantly selling the clothes back to the second-hand stores after she wears them a few times, and replacing them, so she always has something new.
I have a friend who is a law professor and earned himself the nickname "Professor McSweatervest" (a play on his name that also appeared in campus version of Cards Against Humanity that someone made).
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My MiL showed up yesterday and offered me some shirts that her husband no longer wants. I tried to politely refuse them, but apparently this is a thing she does when she doesn't want items to leave the family.
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My MiL showed up yesterday and offered me some shirts that her husband no longer wants. I tried to politely refuse them, but apparently this is a thing she does when she doesn't want items to leave the family.
What are the consequences of accepting them and then donating/recycling them?
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Indeed many people seem to establish some kind of cycle like what you describe. It can depend on the item. The shirts can probably disappear and she won't notice, but the grandfather clock is another story entirely.
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I overheard two ladies chatting at a small town coffee shop today whilst awaiting my beverage. They were gloating about their finances and how they had sorted them out so well, could mostly manage their monthly payments and didn't have much debt. Then one said "except of course our cars. I owe $24,000 and Paul owes about $28,000. But what are you going to do? We need vehicles." Holy cow. You are going to trade them down in this (still) fabulous used car market! No sales taxes in our state so no reason not to buy and sell vehicles at will.
We did a lot of work with tradesman on the house this past summer and I was aghast at the fancy pickup trucks these guys drive. Late model four-door pickups cost $80-100,000! And the guys driving them are carpenters, plumbers, roofers, HVAC boys, etc. I would kill for a good pickup to haul a utility trailer, etc., but can't stomach the high cost given how sporadically I would use it.
We needed new vehicles a couple years ago (at which stage we had over 8 figures invested) and I bought one 8 years old and 105kmiles for $10k (which I still have and adore; RWD!) and another 3 year old creampuff for $33k as an indulgence (embarrassing HP, color). Two years later the pandemic came along and we traded down the fancy pants car for one the same age with 110k miles, better ride, better MPG and more reliable, pocketing $5k. We may drive these things forever.
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I would kill for a good pickup to haul a utility trailer, etc., but can't stomach the high cost given how sporadically I would use it.
I use a trailer from Harbor Freight. The trailer, a trailer hitch and permanent tags, some plywood, 2x4s and nuts and bolts, and I've got the ability to haul a pickup load for less than $1000. And it even folds up so it takes up less space!
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I would kill for a good pickup to haul a utility trailer, etc., but can't stomach the high cost given how sporadically I would use it.
I use a trailer from Harbor Freight. The trailer, a trailer hitch and permanent tags, some plywood, 2x4s and nuts and bolts, and I've got the ability to haul a pickup load for less than $1000. And it even folds up so it takes up less space!
Nice one! I put a hitch on my SUV and rent a 5x9' U-haul trailer with a ramp for $25/day. I can haul two up to 1500 lbs on the trailer which meets most of my needs. But, I have to reserve it, drive five miles to get it, return it, etc.
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I would kill for a good pickup to haul a utility trailer, etc., but can't stomach the high cost given how sporadically I would use it.
I use a trailer from Harbor Freight. The trailer, a trailer hitch and permanent tags, some plywood, 2x4s and nuts and bolts, and I've got the ability to haul a pickup load for less than $1000. And it even folds up so it takes up less space!
Nice one! I put a hitch on my SUV and rent a 5x9' U-haul trailer with a ramp for $25/day. I can haul two up to 1500 lbs on the trailer which meets most of my needs. But, I have to reserve it, drive five miles to get it, return it, etc.
That's actually an awesome suggestion for most folks. We were renovating houses to rent out in our spare time after our day jobs, so the extra cost was well worth it. Without a need like that, your suggestion is more economical!
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I overheard two ladies chatting at a small town coffee shop today whilst awaiting my beverage. They were gloating about their finances and how they had sorted them out so well, could mostly manage their monthly payments and didn't have much debt. Then one said "except of course our cars. I owe $24,000 and Paul owes about $28,000. But what are you going to do? We need vehicles." Holy cow. You are going to trade them down in this (still) fabulous used car market! No sales taxes in our state so no reason not to buy and sell vehicles at will.
We did a lot of work with tradesman on the house this past summer and I was aghast at the fancy pickup trucks these guys drive. Late model four-door pickups cost $80-100,000! And the guys driving them are carpenters, plumbers, roofers, HVAC boys, etc. I would kill for a good pickup to haul a utility trailer, etc., but can't stomach the high cost given how sporadically I would use it.
We needed new vehicles a couple years ago (at which stage we had over 8 figures invested) and I bought one 8 years old and 105kmiles for $10k (which I still have and adore; RWD!) and another 3 year old creampuff for $33k as an indulgence (embarrassing HP, color). Two years later the pandemic came along and we traded down the fancy pants car for one the same age with 110k miles, better ride, better MPG and more reliable, pocketing $5k. We may drive these things forever.
Haha, you're not wrong about the "work" trucks. This is the world I inhabit. I build fancy houses as the GC but everyone else has fancier trucks than me. To be fair, there are significant tax deductions available to the business owner using section 179 depreciation, but yeah. Crazy.
I used to only buy slightly used work trucks but years ago the cost for used increased to the point that new makes more sense (to me). I just bought a base Nissan as my new work rig, after 200k trouble free miles on my last Nissan work rig.
The ones that really crack me up are the jacked up behemoths with a lumber rack 8 feet off the ground and the bed at shoulder height--have fun loading/unloading!
Then at lunch, they all drive away to get fast food! I sit in my fold up camp chair eating my made at home lunch. Lol, they think I'm the weirdo.
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Haha, you're not wrong about the "work" trucks. This is the world I inhabit. I build fancy houses as the GC but everyone else has fancier trucks than me. To be fair, there are significant tax deductions available to the business owner using section 179 depreciation, but yeah. Crazy.
I used to only buy slightly used work trucks but years ago the cost for used increased to the point that new makes more sense (to me). I just bought a base Nissan as my new work rig, after 200k trouble free miles on my last Nissan work rig.
The ones that really crack me up are the jacked up behemoths with a lumber rack 8 feet off the ground and the bed at shoulder height--have fun loading/unloading!
Then at lunch, they all drive away to get fast food! I sit in my fold up camp chair eating my made at home lunch. Lol, they think I'm the weirdo.
Exactly - huge white monstrosities all jacked up. They drive from my place 15 minutes down the mountain to get a $15 burger for lunch and then come roaring back up. One kid even had a massive US flag waving in the bed of the truck. When I chat to most of them, they are living in rental apartments 20 miles from here.
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My colleague (Technical Director, roughly €8,000/month) has announced that he will take a weeklong break the first week of January. He and his wife want to go to Switzerland on vacation, and they have decided that they will volunteer in a hotel for Belgian families-on-a-budget. They will have every afternoon off between 1 and 4, and 1 whole day. He will work in the kitchen, and his wife hopes to work as a nurse (meaning she has to be available 'just in case', but can pretty much do what she wants).
That's sad. Either they are so wasteful with their money they can't afford a vacation, or they're so stingy with their money that they can't let themselves relax and just enjoy themselves.
I understood this as being some sort of volunteering holiday? In that case I really appreciate it that a priviliged person is willing to donate their time, not just a bit of money.
I think if it's done right then it's a great thing. Unfortunately, my views of this kind of thing are tainted by my Southern Baptist upbringing. These kinds of things were mostly framed as "mission trips" and were often more like poverty tourism than actual help.
I have had similar attitudes regarding poverty tourism for the past 20 years. I didn't even know the term existed.
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I would kill for a good pickup to haul a utility trailer, etc., but can't stomach the high cost given how sporadically I would use it.
I use a trailer from Harbor Freight. The trailer, a trailer hitch and permanent tags, some plywood, 2x4s and nuts and bolts, and I've got the ability to haul a pickup load for less than $1000. And it even folds up so it takes up less space!
Nice one! I put a hitch on my SUV and rent a 5x9' U-haul trailer with a ramp for $25/day. I can haul two up to 1500 lbs on the trailer which meets most of my needs. But, I have to reserve it, drive five miles to get it, return it, etc.
That's actually an awesome suggestion for most folks. We were renovating houses to rent out in our spare time after our day jobs, so the extra cost was well worth it. Without a need like that, your suggestion is more economical!
I have a 2007 Pontiac Vibe that can (and has) hauled just about everything I've needed while finishing our basement. The exception was drywall, but for less than $100 I was able to have it delivered. The occasional 4x8 sheet of plywood or drywall fits neatly in our minivan, and for anything else we can rent a pickup from Menards for around $25. Sure beats a truck payment!
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My colleague (Technical Director, roughly €8,000/month) has announced that he will take a weeklong break the first week of January. He and his wife want to go to Switzerland on vacation, and they have decided that they will volunteer in a hotel for Belgian families-on-a-budget. They will have every afternoon off between 1 and 4, and 1 whole day. He will work in the kitchen, and his wife hopes to work as a nurse (meaning she has to be available 'just in case', but can pretty much do what she wants).
That's sad. Either they are so wasteful with their money they can't afford a vacation, or they're so stingy with their money that they can't let themselves relax and just enjoy themselves.
I understood this as being some sort of volunteering holiday? In that case I really appreciate it that a priviliged person is willing to donate their time, not just a bit of money.
I think if it's done right then it's a great thing. Unfortunately, my views of this kind of thing are tainted by my Southern Baptist upbringing. These kinds of things were mostly framed as "mission trips" and were often more like poverty tourism than actual help.
I have had similar attitudes regarding poverty tourism for the past 20 years. I didn't even know the term existed.
Just to be clear: in Belgium this is not poverty tourism. Many Belgians went on summer camps as children, became youth leaders in their local youth groups (scouts and similar, not religion or class connected anymore), volunteered at vacation clubs either local or abroad, and continue doing so when they become adults. Belgium has 30 vacation days per year for working people, school children up to 18 have a 9 week summer break, universtity students have 11 weeks in summer (and university is practically free, so they don't need to work). Plenty of time to enjoy your own vacation and then help out with someone else's.
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Just to be clear: in Belgium this is not poverty tourism. Many Belgians went on summer camps as children, became youth leaders in their local youth groups (scouts and similar, not religion or class connected anymore), volunteered at vacation clubs either local or abroad, and continue doing so when they become adults. Belgium has 30 vacation days per year for working people, school children up to 18 have a 9 week summer break, universtity students have 11 weeks in summer (and university is practically free, so they don't need to work). Plenty of time to enjoy your own vacation and then help out with someone else's.
Economic inequality is far, far lower in Belgium. A lot of the purpose of religious poverty-tourism mission trips in the Southern US where I also live was to solicit parental donations to the church, which could then take teens on a trip somewhere at low cost due to geoarbitrage in developing countries in South America or Asia, set up a narrative that they were God's favored Americans (as visibly contrasted to the locals) because He chose them to be born in a wonderful place (among other accidents of birth with political ramifications, let's just say haves vs. have-nots, but thus underscoring their indebtedness to continue worshiping Him fervently & with open wallets at their church), then justifying it all with the day or two of "service" as a lesson in "humility" - to serve, instead of their accustomed station of being served. I've noticed service is regarded as inherently humbling bordering on humiliating in southern US culture, where the lines between haves & have-nots used to be even more extremely stark &, ahem, visible.
I find it sort of surprising that even in this thread there is an echo of that same implication that serving others cannot be joyful or relaxing! I specifically noticed you characterize service as "helping," a framework I do not think would be applied in the US since it implies a certain equality to start with, but which I wish we would embrace.
Pleasantly one of my coworkers - still in their 30s - told me this week they have decided they are no longer trying to advance a career but just build toward a "retirement" in which they chose their own employment level - I had to take a moment to collect myself as most peers & superiors are shackling themselves to ever-more debt with home upsizes, remodels, or customized vehicles.
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My colleague (Technical Director, roughly €8,000/month) has announced that he will take a weeklong break the first week of January. He and his wife want to go to Switzerland on vacation, and they have decided that they will volunteer in a hotel for Belgian families-on-a-budget. They will have every afternoon off between 1 and 4, and 1 whole day. He will work in the kitchen, and his wife hopes to work as a nurse (meaning she has to be available 'just in case', but can pretty much do what she wants).
Just to be clear: in Belgium this is not poverty tourism. Many Belgians went on summer camps as children, became youth leaders in their local youth groups (scouts and similar, not religion or class connected anymore), volunteered at vacation clubs either local or abroad, and continue doing so when they become adults. Belgium has 30 vacation days per year for working people, school children up to 18 have a 9 week summer break, universtity students have 11 weeks in summer (and university is practically free, so they don't need to work). Plenty of time to enjoy your own vacation and then help out with someone else's.
Update: they didn't go :) There were too many volunteers, and they were put on a waiting list.
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Partly overheard at work, partly with friends.
1. Friends visiting from Bay Area. Husband got laid off a few weeks ago. (From a company he founded, ha!) But wife is working, so it's no biggie. Turns out she took a year off work during COVID when the kids were schooling from home, and eventually when they were back started work again.
2. Former coworker is helping us out a few hours a week at work. Was chatting, and honestly wondering how he was managing a FT job at a startup and part time work. Turns out, he quit the full time job awhile back. He has a young child, and discovered a heart condition (he's in his 40s). So, he said "I have enough passive income" (probably from work and from living in a van during college). So, he quit the FT job and this job is mellow.
3. A friend from long long ago was visiting. He's retiring at 60, which is in 6 years. His quote "I have my forever house, my forever job, and my forever wife". Like, work is work, I'm okay just keeping on keeping on.
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My MiL showed up yesterday and offered me some shirts that her husband no longer wants. I tried to politely refuse them, but apparently this is a thing she does when she doesn't want items to leave the family.
At least it wasn't his underwear... :-)
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Since I typed that thing about the shirts, she showed up with a dozen-and-a-half pack of eggs, so I'm accelerating the retirement date!
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I really like it when my parents want to give us things, whether used or not. Then again, they'll happily accept "not interested" as an answer too. Non-exhaustive list of things I/we have received from them in the past:
- eggs from their chickens
- fruit and vegetables from their garden
- clothes for me. Mother has a few informal sources. Great, because I hate shopping for clothes.
- kitchen utensils. They have an enormous stash of spares. Just lately, a mixer when ours broke.
- their used car. We used it for a year during covid-19 instead of public transport. After it failed the very stringent inspection in my native country, we moved it to our countryside getaway in my wife's home country.
- arm chairs and a coffee table. These were actually hand-me-downs from my grandparents through my mother.
- cookies.
Oh, the cookies! My parents live round the corner from where I work part of my time, and quite far from our place. That's why my wife sees them less often. My parents know she really likes anything cookies or cake, so they'll almost always stop me just before I leave to say: "Would you please take these cookies/this cake to your lovely wife and tell her we love her very much?". It's become a ritual, to the point of my wife when I return from work asking me with much anticipation what surprise they had for her this time. The next day, my wife and my mother will usually have a long phone conversation. It starts off with my wife saying thank you, and can sometimes last an hour. I love to see how close my wife and my mother have gotten!
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I really like it when my parents want to give us things, whether used or not. Then again, they'll happily accept "not interested" as an answer too. Non-exhaustive list of things I/we have received from them in the past:
- eggs from their chickens
- fruit and vegetables from their garden
- clothes for me. Mother has a few informal sources. Great, because I hate shopping for clothes.
- kitchen utensils. They have an enormous stash of spares. Just lately, a mixer when ours broke.
- their used car. We used it for a year during covid-19 instead of public transport. After it failed the very stringent inspection in my native country, we moved it to our countryside getaway in my wife's home country.
- arm chairs and a coffee table. These were actually hand-me-downs from my grandparents through my mother.
- cookies.
Oh, the cookies! My parents live round the corner from where I work part of my time, and quite far from our place. That's why my wife sees them less often. My parents know she really likes anything cookies or cake, so they'll almost always stop me just before I leave to say: "Would you please take these cookies/this cake to your lovely wife and tell her we love her very much?". It's become a ritual, to the point of my wife when I return from work asking me with much anticipation what surprise they had for her this time. The next day, my wife and my mother will usually have a long phone conversation. It starts off with my wife saying thank you, and can sometimes last an hour. I love to see how close my wife and my mother have gotten!
One of my coworkers gave me a dozen eggs from her "girls" as a present at my work baby shower! It was one of my favorite gifts. Another made me a quart of decaf cold brew.
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Been reading through this thread and the other epic-length threads on this board, and I finally have something to contribute.
One colleague of mine is quite open about living paycheck to paycheck, never having enough money for emergencies like car repair/vet bills, etc. She buys (and wears) lots of expensive makeup, and she and her partner order takeout/delivery quite often. In short, I expected to be posting this in the normal Antimustachian thread.
Well, we are having our open enrollment period for benefits right now so the talk one afternoon turned to retirement/401ks/HSAs. Apparently this colleague contributes 10% to her 401k (plus 3.5% company match) and has gotten at least the match (requires 6% employee contribution) since she started working here. She also increases her contributions when she gets a raise.
Maybe it's not fully Mustachian, but it's not antimustachian either. I was surprised, to say the least.
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Sounds like mind is willing, but the flesh is weak :D
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Been reading through this thread and the other epic-length threads on this board, and I finally have something to contribute.
One colleague of mine is quite open about living paycheck to paycheck, never having enough money for emergencies like car repair/vet bills, etc. She buys (and wears) lots of expensive makeup, and she and her partner order takeout/delivery quite often. In short, I expected to be posting this in the normal Antimustachian thread.
Well, we are having our open enrollment period for benefits right now so the talk one afternoon turned to retirement/401ks/HSAs. Apparently this colleague contributes 10% to her 401k (plus 3.5% company match) and has gotten at least the match (requires 6% employee contribution) since she started working here. She also increases her contributions when she gets a raise.
Maybe it's not fully Mustachian, but it's not antimustachian either. I was surprised, to say the least.
Most average non-mustachian folks that I know are like this. They are contributing 10% to get to a "normal" retirement but money is tight most of the time.
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Been reading through this thread and the other epic-length threads on this board, and I finally have something to contribute.
One colleague of mine is quite open about living paycheck to paycheck, never having enough money for emergencies like car repair/vet bills, etc. She buys (and wears) lots of expensive makeup, and she and her partner order takeout/delivery quite often. In short, I expected to be posting this in the normal Antimustachian thread.
Well, we are having our open enrollment period for benefits right now so the talk one afternoon turned to retirement/401ks/HSAs. Apparently this colleague contributes 10% to her 401k (plus 3.5% company match) and has gotten at least the match (requires 6% employee contribution) since she started working here. She also increases her contributions when she gets a raise.
Maybe it's not fully Mustachian, but it's not antimustachian either. I was surprised, to say the least.
Most average non-mustachian folks that I know are like this. They are contributing 10% to get to a "normal" retirement but money is tight most of the time.
Even we live like this since downshifting. Well, we contribute like 70%, but total savings is only going to be around 10% as we draw down taxable to make those contributions...
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Been reading through this thread and the other epic-length threads on this board, and I finally have something to contribute.
One colleague of mine is quite open about living paycheck to paycheck, never having enough money for emergencies like car repair/vet bills, etc. She buys (and wears) lots of expensive makeup, and she and her partner order takeout/delivery quite often. In short, I expected to be posting this in the normal Antimustachian thread.
Well, we are having our open enrollment period for benefits right now so the talk one afternoon turned to retirement/401ks/HSAs. Apparently this colleague contributes 10% to her 401k (plus 3.5% company match) and has gotten at least the match (requires 6% employee contribution) since she started working here. She also increases her contributions when she gets a raise.
Maybe it's not fully Mustachian, but it's not antimustachian either. I was surprised, to say the least.
Most average non-mustachian folks that I know are like this. They are contributing 10% to get to a "normal" retirement but money is tight most of the time.
It's kinda like "I will do what other people tell me to do regardless of my own financial goals" whether you are contributing the default to your 401k or if you are a rabid consumer digging oneself into a debt pit. It just suggests a lack of initiative or intellectual independence either way.
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It's kinda like "I will do what other people tell me to do regardless of my own financial goals" whether you are contributing the default to your 401k or if you are a rabid consumer digging oneself into a debt pit. It just suggests a lack of initiative or intellectual independence either way.
I hear you, but I'm a little more sympathetic. I think a lot of people are not acting regardless of their financial goals; they're doing what the experts tell them is the way to get to those goals.
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Been reading through this thread and the other epic-length threads on this board, and I finally have something to contribute.
One colleague of mine is quite open about living paycheck to paycheck, never having enough money for emergencies like car repair/vet bills, etc. She buys (and wears) lots of expensive makeup, and she and her partner order takeout/delivery quite often. In short, I expected to be posting this in the normal Antimustachian thread.
Well, we are having our open enrollment period for benefits right now so the talk one afternoon turned to retirement/401ks/HSAs. Apparently this colleague contributes 10% to her 401k (plus 3.5% company match) and has gotten at least the match (requires 6% employee contribution) since she started working here. She also increases her contributions when she gets a raise.
Maybe it's not fully Mustachian, but it's not antimustachian either. I was surprised, to say the least.
Most average non-mustachian folks that I know are like this. They are contributing 10% to get to a "normal" retirement but money is tight most of the time.
It's kinda like "I will do what other people tell me to do regardless of my own financial goals" whether you are contributing the default to your 401k or if you are a rabid consumer digging oneself into a debt pit. It just suggests a lack of initiative or intellectual independence either way.
It does. I vividly remember a conversation with my good friend since childhood who had recently met with their financial planner. We were 39-40 and discussing fees for our kids' school and sports, etc. She was like, the financial planner has us on track for retiring at 67 (10%). I was like, I want to retire way before that, like my parents did (55) without revealing that I wanted to be FI way earlier (45). Her response was, what would I do until 67? I was/am bewildered that someone in their late 30s is even assuming that they want to be yoked to a job at almost 70 years old.
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Been reading through this thread and the other epic-length threads on this board, and I finally have something to contribute.
One colleague of mine is quite open about living paycheck to paycheck, never having enough money for emergencies like car repair/vet bills, etc. She buys (and wears) lots of expensive makeup, and she and her partner order takeout/delivery quite often. In short, I expected to be posting this in the normal Antimustachian thread.
Well, we are having our open enrollment period for benefits right now so the talk one afternoon turned to retirement/401ks/HSAs. Apparently this colleague contributes 10% to her 401k (plus 3.5% company match) and has gotten at least the match (requires 6% employee contribution) since she started working here. She also increases her contributions when she gets a raise.
Maybe it's not fully Mustachian, but it's not antimustachian either. I was surprised, to say the least.
Most average non-mustachian folks that I know are like this. They are contributing 10% to get to a "normal" retirement but money is tight most of the time.
It's kinda like "I will do what other people tell me to do regardless of my own financial goals" whether you are contributing the default to your 401k or if you are a rabid consumer digging oneself into a debt pit. It just suggests a lack of initiative or intellectual independence either way.
It does. I vividly remember a conversation with my good friend since childhood who had recently met with their financial planner. We were 39-40 and discussing fees for our kids' school and sports, etc. She was like, the financial planner has us on track for retiring at 67 (10%). I was like, I want to retire way before that, like my parents did (55) without revealing that I wanted to be FI way earlier (45). Her response was, what would I do until 67? I was/am bewildered that someone in their late 30s is even assuming that they want to be yoked to a job at almost 70 years old.
I’m in my late 30’s and if I could FIRE tomorrow I would. I can absolutely find things to do with my time, I won’t for one second be bored. It’s not like I won’t ever work, I just don’t want to be tied down to a job for need of the salary.
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It does. I vividly remember a conversation with my good friend since childhood who had recently met with their financial planner. We were 39-40 and discussing fees for our kids' school and sports, etc. She was like, the financial planner has us on track for retiring at 67 (10%). I was like, I want to retire way before that, like my parents did (55) without revealing that I wanted to be FI way earlier (45). Her response was, what would I do until 67? I was/am bewildered that someone in their late 30s is even assuming that they want to be yoked to a job at almost 70 years old.
This is a very common sentiment, and Mustachians are the outliers. Many people I've talked to about retirement have little interest in retiring earlier than their mid-60s (at the earliest), expressing the sentiment, "what would I do with myself sitting at home?" There are also plenty of people who enjoy their jobs and/or feel like they are making a useful contribution with their work.
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There are also plenty of people who enjoy their jobs and/or feel like they are making a useful contribution with their work.
Perhaps, but wouldn't you think the total lack of foresight is weird? Choosing not to leave a job that you enjoy at 35 is far different than assuming you will still enjoy it, and no other life circumstances will prevent you from working it, at 60.
Most people simply want to spend more today than would allow them to save more than 10%. The 'what would I do until 67' is a way to rationalize what all the "experts" are telling them.
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I vividly remember a conversation with my good friend since childhood who had recently met with their financial planner. We were 39-40 and discussing fees for our kids' school and sports, etc. She was like, the financial planner has us on track for retiring at 67 (10%). I was like, I want to retire way before that, like my parents did (55) without revealing that I wanted to be FI way earlier (45). Her response was, what would I do until 67?
This attitude is really baffling to me. What do they plan to do after they retire at 67, and why can't they do it earlier? Or do they think that retirement equals sitting around at home, and that's okay in your 60s for some reason?
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Been reading through this thread and the other epic-length threads on this board, and I finally have something to contribute.
One colleague of mine is quite open about living paycheck to paycheck, never having enough money for emergencies like car repair/vet bills, etc. She buys (and wears) lots of expensive makeup, and she and her partner order takeout/delivery quite often. In short, I expected to be posting this in the normal Antimustachian thread.
Well, we are having our open enrollment period for benefits right now so the talk one afternoon turned to retirement/401ks/HSAs. Apparently this colleague contributes 10% to her 401k (plus 3.5% company match) and has gotten at least the match (requires 6% employee contribution) since she started working here. She also increases her contributions when she gets a raise.
Maybe it's not fully Mustachian, but it's not antimustachian either. I was surprised, to say the least.
Most average non-mustachian folks that I know are like this. They are contributing 10% to get to a "normal" retirement but money is tight most of the time.
It's kinda like "I will do what other people tell me to do regardless of my own financial goals" whether you are contributing the default to your 401k or if you are a rabid consumer digging oneself into a debt pit. It just suggests a lack of initiative or intellectual independence either way.
It does. I vividly remember a conversation with my good friend since childhood who had recently met with their financial planner. We were 39-40 and discussing fees for our kids' school and sports, etc. She was like, the financial planner has us on track for retiring at 67 (10%). I was like, I want to retire way before that, like my parents did (55) without revealing that I wanted to be FI way earlier (45). Her response was, what would I do until 67? I was/am bewildered that someone in their late 30s is even assuming that they want to be yoked to a job at almost 70 years old.
But were they talking about working til age 67? Or collecting SS at age 67?
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Been reading through this thread and the other epic-length threads on this board, and I finally have something to contribute.
One colleague of mine is quite open about living paycheck to paycheck, never having enough money for emergencies like car repair/vet bills, etc. She buys (and wears) lots of expensive makeup, and she and her partner order takeout/delivery quite often. In short, I expected to be posting this in the normal Antimustachian thread.
Well, we are having our open enrollment period for benefits right now so the talk one afternoon turned to retirement/401ks/HSAs. Apparently this colleague contributes 10% to her 401k (plus 3.5% company match) and has gotten at least the match (requires 6% employee contribution) since she started working here. She also increases her contributions when she gets a raise.
Maybe it's not fully Mustachian, but it's not antimustachian either. I was surprised, to say the least.
Most average non-mustachian folks that I know are like this. They are contributing 10% to get to a "normal" retirement but money is tight most of the time.
It's kinda like "I will do what other people tell me to do regardless of my own financial goals" whether you are contributing the default to your 401k or if you are a rabid consumer digging oneself into a debt pit. It just suggests a lack of initiative or intellectual independence either way.
It does. I vividly remember a conversation with my good friend since childhood who had recently met with their financial planner. We were 39-40 and discussing fees for our kids' school and sports, etc. She was like, the financial planner has us on track for retiring at 67 (10%). I was like, I want to retire way before that, like my parents did (55) without revealing that I wanted to be FI way earlier (45). Her response was, what would I do until 67? I was/am bewildered that someone in their late 30s is even assuming that they want to be yoked to a job at almost 70 years old.
This is probably a person who currently uses their free time to watch lots of TV. Retirement to them simply means watching more TV, not traveling the world, getting fit, meeting new friends, taking on new projects, reading all the books, etc.
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But were they talking about working til age 67? Or collecting SS at age 67?
Most people I know don't acknowledge that these are two separate things.
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There are also plenty of people who enjoy their jobs and/or feel like they are making a useful contribution with their work.
Perhaps, but wouldn't you think the total lack of foresight is weird? Choosing not to leave a job that you enjoy at 35 is far different than assuming you will still enjoy it, and no other life circumstances will prevent you from working it, at 60.
Most people simply want to spend more today than would allow them to save more than 10%. The 'what would I do until 67' is a way to rationalize what all the "experts" are telling them.
I think it's just a total lack of exposure to alternative ideas. Many of us were brought up with the expectation that we are to go to college, get a good job, continue working until we're old, and then retire and die. So it is not "the experts" that are influencing people; it's the expectations of society as a whole, which includes our parents, friends, and co-workers. At the age of 35, many/most people are simply not thinking about retirement or what happens afterwards. It takes an epiphany to realize that you can follow an alternative path, and another one to come up with a set of things that are different from work that you would like to occupy yourself with once retired (*). Even after it dawns on you that you COULD save a lot today and retire earlier, it's such an unusual path that I think many people are scared of it. Continuing to work is the expected, normal thing, and most people are uncomfortable with deviating from the expected, normal thing.
*Re the underlined part - I'm about 8 years from the date I intend to retire slightly early, and still struggle with this part. I have some ideas, but am not certain that what I have in mind will be truly as fulfilling as my profession, which I like a lot at the moment.
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This is probably a person who currently uses their free time to watch lots of TV. Retirement to them simply means watching more TV, not traveling the world, getting fit, meeting new friends, taking on new projects, reading all the books, etc.
They actually watch almost no TV, do people still do that? Daily activities are generally gym, work, running children to various activities, and going to bed early, maybe too much tiktok. I think it's really just about being consumed by work and family, and having an expensive life.
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There are also plenty of people who enjoy their jobs and/or feel like they are making a useful contribution with their work.
Perhaps, but wouldn't you think the total lack of foresight is weird? Choosing not to leave a job that you enjoy at 35 is far different than assuming you will still enjoy it, and no other life circumstances will prevent you from working it, at 60.
Most people simply want to spend more today than would allow them to save more than 10%. The 'what would I do until 67' is a way to rationalize what all the "experts" are telling them.
I think it's just a total lack of exposure to alternative ideas. Many of us were brought up with the expectation that we are to go to college, get a good job, continue working until we're old, and then retire and die. So it is not "the experts" that are influencing people; it's the expectations of society as a whole, which includes our parents, friends, and co-workers. At the age of 35, many/most people are simply not thinking about retirement or what happens afterwards. It takes an epiphany to realize that you can follow an alternative path, and another one to come up with a set of things that are different from work that you would like to occupy yourself with once retired (*). Even after it dawns on you that you COULD save a lot today and retire earlier, it's such an unusual path that I think many people are scared of it. Continuing to work is the expected, normal thing, and most people are uncomfortable with deviating from the expected, normal thing.
*Re the underlined part - I'm about 8 years from the date I intend to retire slightly early, and still struggle with this part. I have some ideas, but am not certain that what I have in mind will be truly as fulfilling as my profession, which I like a lot at the moment.
Yes to all of this! Most people I know really don't understand the difference between "stopping working because you can and want to" and "collecting old-age benefits which are scheduled to arrive in your account at a certain age". It's not that people don't *want* to do other things than work, they just can't imagine another future than working until they reach official retirement age. It's just the done thing. Then they're even happy they could work until their official retirement age and didn't have to leave because of ill health or restructuring!
When I carefully mention things like downshifting or retiring early, the response is often "but then you'll have a much lower pension (our version of social security)". Errr, yes, I'm not counting on that money to live on, also not when I start to collect it. People think you need to be a gazillionaire to retire early, they've never done the maths and wouldn't trust it if they did it.
If people don't spend all the money they earn, they don't think "this pot of money could let me retire earlier", because retiring early is just not an option in their mind. So instead they might just buy something somewhat extravagant like a holiday home, or help out their children or something, since they've got the money but they haven't got the imagination.
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There are also plenty of people who enjoy their jobs and/or feel like they are making a useful contribution with their work.
Perhaps, but wouldn't you think the total lack of foresight is weird? Choosing not to leave a job that you enjoy at 35 is far different than assuming you will still enjoy it, and no other life circumstances will prevent you from working it, at 60.
Most people simply want to spend more today than would allow them to save more than 10%. The 'what would I do until 67' is a way to rationalize what all the "experts" are telling them.
I think it's just a total lack of exposure to alternative ideas. Many of us were brought up with the expectation that we are to go to college, get a good job, continue working until we're old, and then retire and die. So it is not "the experts" that are influencing people; it's the expectations of society as a whole, which includes our parents, friends, and co-workers. At the age of 35, many/most people are simply not thinking about retirement or what happens afterwards. It takes an epiphany to realize that you can follow an alternative path, and another one to come up with a set of things that are different from work that you would like to occupy yourself with once retired (*). Even after it dawns on you that you COULD save a lot today and retire earlier, it's such an unusual path that I think many people are scared of it. Continuing to work is the expected, normal thing, and most people are uncomfortable with deviating from the expected, normal thing.
*Re the underlined part - I'm about 8 years from the date I intend to retire slightly early, and still struggle with this part. I have some ideas, but am not certain that what I have in mind will be truly as fulfilling as my profession, which I like a lot at the moment.
Yes to all of this! Most people I know really don't understand the difference between "stopping working because you can and want to" and "collecting old-age benefits which are scheduled to arrive in your account at a certain age". It's not that people don't *want* to do other things than work, they just can't imagine another future than working until they reach official retirement age. It's just the done thing. Then they're even happy they could work until their official retirement age and didn't have to leave because of ill health or restructuring!
When I carefully mention things like downshifting or retiring early, the response is often "but then you'll have a much lower pension (our version of social security)". Errr, yes, I'm not counting on that money to live on, also not when I start to collect it. People think you need to be a gazillionaire to retire early, they've never done the maths and wouldn't trust it if they did it.
If people don't spend all the money they earn, they don't think "this pot of money could let me retire earlier", because retiring early is just not an option in their mind. So instead they might just buy something somewhat extravagant like a holiday home, or help out their children or something, since they've got the money but they haven't got the imagination.
Yes, we get a lot of responses that seem like either we are crazy or we actually cheated because we do things differently. Our SILs, who either have many children or wished to have more than they do, seem to think it was cheating to not have any. Ummm, that was your choice, we made ours... I have been especially surprised by the number of younger Baby Boomer women who want to drill down to what I do for money. I alternate between claiming to be a kept woman and claiming to be DH's caregiver. He doesn't need physical care anymore, but he still doesn't have the spoons for some of the regular chores like fixing dinner. He would rather engineer than figure out chores, so I play housewife while he gets paid to engineer part-time. You know what he generally does with the rest of his time? More engineering.
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Not at work as I FI and done with that :) but I have celebrate some friends who want to join me. They had a fantastic year with a relatively new business and wanted to talk about what to do with the extra money. Since their only debt is a mortgage at 3% it quickly became an investing discussion. Their income quadrupled and they plan to have zero lifestyle inflation. They're going to keep the same budget they had the past year while starting the business and invest the other 75%.
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There are also plenty of people who enjoy their jobs and/or feel like they are making a useful contribution with their work.
Perhaps, but wouldn't you think the total lack of foresight is weird? Choosing not to leave a job that you enjoy at 35 is far different than assuming you will still enjoy it, and no other life circumstances will prevent you from working it, at 60.
Most people simply want to spend more today than would allow them to save more than 10%. The 'what would I do until 67' is a way to rationalize what all the "experts" are telling them.
I think it's just a total lack of exposure to alternative ideas. Many of us were brought up with the expectation that we are to go to college, get a good job, continue working until we're old, and then retire and die. So it is not "the experts" that are influencing people; it's the expectations of society as a whole, which includes our parents, friends, and co-workers. At the age of 35, many/most people are simply not thinking about retirement or what happens afterwards. It takes an epiphany to realize that you can follow an alternative path, and another one to come up with a set of things that are different from work that you would like to occupy yourself with once retired (*). Even after it dawns on you that you COULD save a lot today and retire earlier, it's such an unusual path that I think many people are scared of it. Continuing to work is the expected, normal thing, and most people are uncomfortable with deviating from the expected, normal thing.
*Re the underlined part - I'm about 8 years from the date I intend to retire slightly early, and still struggle with this part. I have some ideas, but am not certain that what I have in mind will be truly as fulfilling as my profession, which I like a lot at the moment.
Yes to all of this! Most people I know really don't understand the difference between "stopping working because you can and want to" and "collecting old-age benefits which are scheduled to arrive in your account at a certain age". It's not that people don't *want* to do other things than work, they just can't imagine another future than working until they reach official retirement age. It's just the done thing. Then they're even happy they could work until their official retirement age and didn't have to leave because of ill health or restructuring!
When I carefully mention things like downshifting or retiring early, the response is often "but then you'll have a much lower pension (our version of social security)". Errr, yes, I'm not counting on that money to live on, also not when I start to collect it. People think you need to be a gazillionaire to retire early, they've never done the maths and wouldn't trust it if they did it.
If people don't spend all the money they earn, they don't think "this pot of money could let me retire earlier", because retiring early is just not an option in their mind. So instead they might just buy something somewhat extravagant like a holiday home, or help out their children or something, since they've got the money but they haven't got the imagination.
Yes, we get a lot of responses that seem like either we are crazy or we actually cheated because we do things differently. Our SILs, who either have many children or wished to have more than they do, seem to think it was cheating to not have any. Ummm, that was your choice, we made ours... I have been especially surprised by the number of younger Baby Boomer women who want to drill down to what I do for money. I alternate between claiming to be a kept woman and claiming to be DH's caregiver. He doesn't need physical care anymore, but he still doesn't have the spoons for some of the regular chores like fixing dinner. He would rather engineer than figure out chores, so I play housewife while he gets paid to engineer part-time. You know what he generally does with the rest of his time? More engineering.
I think there are a lot of people like that. If you really love something like engineering, why would you want to stop doing it even when you have enough money to do so? Would we be so surprised if, say, a professional violinist decided to keep playing the violin during retirement? We intuitively understand that making music and art is something that even professional musicians and artists do mostly for themselves, not for money. There are people with professions ranging from accounting to engineering who feel the same way.
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I think there are a lot of people like that. If you really love something like engineering, why would you want to stop doing it even when you have enough money to do so? Would we be so surprised if, say, a professional violinist decided to keep playing the violin during retirement? We intuitively understand that making music and art is something that even professional musicians and artists do mostly for themselves, not for money. There are people with professions ranging from accounting to engineering who feel the same way.
Yeah the main change for me when I FIRE'd from mechanical engineering was switching to designing things that I want to have and then building them. The further up the career ladder and pay scale I went the less time management wanted me to spend on the actual building which is my favorite part of any design process. Of course that meant this summer I lived the oddity of retiring from a cushy engineering job to mix concrete by hand rather than pay for redi-mix...
Also I go outside to the mountains on the nice days now and work inside when the weather is bad.
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I think there are a lot of people like that. If you really love something like engineering, why would you want to stop doing it even when you have enough money to do so? Would we be so surprised if, say, a professional violinist decided to keep playing the violin during retirement? We intuitively understand that making music and art is something that even professional musicians and artists do mostly for themselves, not for money. There are people with professions ranging from accounting to engineering who feel the same way.
Yeah the main change for me when I FIRE'd from mechanical engineering was switching to designing things that I want to have and then building them. The further up the career ladder and pay scale I went the less time management wanted me to spend on the actual building which is my favorite part of any design process. Of course that meant this summer I lived the oddity of retiring from a cushy engineering job to mix concrete by hand rather than pay for redi-mix...
Also I go outside to the mountains on the nice days now and work inside when the weather is bad.
DH has spent this year studying photovoltaics, structural engineering and materiels engineering. My job is to point out more simple ways to do it or put the kaibosh on impractical solutions. The results are pretty impressive, but we now own a solar panel showroom (we have four different kinds installed, based on how they mount and how much shade is expected in that area, plus two smaller ones that can be set up anywhere) a smaller charge controller showroom, and bits and bobs of extruded aluminum that were replaced when he changed designs... And it still isn't enough to run the heater two nights in a row, so now he is working on air flow and hoses to improve heat pump efficiency...
I still teach on a volunteer basis, albeit on a different subject than my PhD, so I get it. I just thought he would be writing apps or helping the nephews code their games better or gathering data to analyze, not building stuff.
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I just thought he would be writing apps or helping the nephews code their games better or gathering data to analyze, not building stuff.
As a programmer of many decades, I can tell you how VERY SATISFYING it is to make something with my hands.
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I have reminded two friends over the years that they can be engineers while at home. One was acting clueless about how their HVAC system worked. The other was struggling with a car troubleshooting situation. These were both quite sharp mechanical engineers, but seemed like they turned it off at home. Shrug
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I have reminded two friends over the years that they can be engineers while at home. One was acting clueless about how their HVAC system worked. The other was struggling with a car troubleshooting situation. These were both quite sharp mechanical engineers, but seemed like they turned it off at home. Shrug
Some people are good X engineers. Some people are engineers to the very core. MIL has stories of DH doing engineering things at four, including drafting the designs for his Lego builds.
I have been called an honorary engineer and I can generally keep up with him on personal projects, but when it comes to what he does professionally, every one of his managers and most of his colleagues that I have met have used superlatives.
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My wife says real engineers are 24/7. We can't turn it off. I know several others in that category.
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My wife says real engineers are 24/7. We can't turn it off. I know several others in that category.
If you wake up in the morning and think about engineering, then you are an engineer.
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My wife says real engineers are 24/7. We can't turn it off. I know several others in that category.
If you wake up in the morning and think about engineering, then you are an engineer.
If you wake up in the middle of the night to think about engineering, then you are a REAL engineer. ;-) [Not me, my FIL.]
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My wife says real engineers are 24/7. We can't turn it off. I know several others in that category.
If you wake up in the morning and think about engineering, then you are an engineer.
If you wake up in the middle of the night to think about engineering, then you are a REAL engineer. ;-) [Not me, my FIL.]
The danger with thinking about details in the middle of the night is that they tend to wake my brain up rather than help it fall asleep. It's better to stick to high level conceptual things that can fade into dreams... Once I start really trying solve specifics sleep is way less likely.
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I would retire tomorrow if I could.
I think for many people it is a combination of the following:
1. Unable to retire
2. Unable to imagine a life where they might be able to retire early
3. Poor financial literacy training
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My wife says real engineers are 24/7. We can't turn it off. I know several others in that category.
If you wake up in the morning and think about engineering, then you are an engineer.
If you wake up in the middle of the night to think about engineering, then you are a REAL engineer. ;-) [Not me, my FIL.]
If you use the Collatz conjecture to put yourself to sleep at night, you win all the engineering on the Internet.
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My wife says real engineers are 24/7. We can't turn it off. I know several others in that category.
If you wake up in the morning and think about engineering, then you are an engineer.
If you wake up in the middle of the night to think about engineering, then you are a REAL engineer. ;-) [Not me, my FIL.]
If you use the Collatz conjecture to put yourself to sleep at night, you win all the engineering on the Internet.
Nah, that's math geniuses/genii/genies.
I have frequent dreams of breaking shit, and then fixing shit. It's some random shit that isn't related to my job, but sometimes related to something I'm fixing at home or in my rentals.
I saw a military member driving a '93 Accord Coupe around work. One day, I happened to park next to him and checked out his ride. It was all stock. He asked me if I was looking for anything or needed help.
I told him I used to have a '92 Accord sedan, so seeing a rare stock car, with original paint, was very pleasing and nostalgic. I asked him how much work he did to keep it looking good and running great. He said that he got it a few years back from an old couple's estate, it was their garage queen.
He parks it in a garage every night, and works on it on weekends, replacing door seals and any rubber going bad. Otherwise the car runs great, just needs the usual preventive maintenance. It was under 100,000 miles. The young man said he didn't want to buy new cars and have payments. Plus he has a few rentals in other states where he's been deployed. And he reads JLCollinsNH and the FI subreddit. His plan is to retire fully after his 20 in service and live on rental and investment income.
A man with a plan.
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My wife says real engineers are 24/7. We can't turn it off. I know several others in that category.
If you wake up in the morning and think about engineering, then you are an engineer.
If you wake up in the middle of the night to think about engineering, then you are a REAL engineer. ;-) [Not me, my FIL.]
If you use the Collatz conjecture to put yourself to sleep at night, you win all the engineering on the Internet.
Does it count if my computer runs the BOINC project while I sleep?
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My wife says real engineers are 24/7. We can't turn it off. I know several others in that category.
Checks out. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/sep/07/michigan-tech-student-drunk-designed-plane-twitter-viral-mark-keith
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My wife says real engineers are 24/7. We can't turn it off. I know several others in that category.
This is true of my husband as well. It can honestly be pretty irritating, lol.
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My wife says real engineers are 24/7. We can't turn it off. I know several others in that category.
This is true of my husband as well. It can honestly be pretty irritating, lol.
Not just engineering. And yes, I know I'm annoying to deal with at times, but there are very good reasons why I'm an auditor.
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My wife says real engineers are 24/7. We can't turn it off. I know several others in that category.
If you wake up in the morning and think about engineering, then you are an engineer.
If you wake up in the middle of the night to think about engineering, then you are a REAL engineer. ;-) [Not me, my FIL.]
If you use the Collatz conjecture to put yourself to sleep at night, you win all the engineering on the Internet.
Nah, that's math geniuses/genii/genies.
For an actual mathematician, I'm pretty sure it keeps them up at night rather than the opposite. To an engineer, it's an instant soporific because there's nothing to build, take apart, or blow up.
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My wife says real engineers are 24/7. We can't turn it off. I know several others in that category.
If you wake up in the morning and think about engineering, then you are an engineer.
If you wake up in the middle of the night to think about engineering, then you are a REAL engineer. ;-) [Not me, my FIL.]
If you use the Collatz conjecture to put yourself to sleep at night, you win all the engineering on the Internet.
Nah, that's math geniuses/genii/genies.
For an actual mathematician, I'm pretty sure it keeps them up at night rather than the opposite. To an engineer, it's an instant soporific because there's nothing to build, take apart, or blow up.
And this is why y'all are my people, you get me. I've always felt like I don't quiiite fit completely with my engineering crowd.
First degree Mathematics, second Mechanical Eng.
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Witnessed four uniformed Sergeants telling another one not to buy a new EV SUV, financed, when he has a reliable Japanese SUV that's paid off and less than 5 years old. The senior-most gave me a look, I just smiled and nodded in approval. He smiled back then rolled his eyes and shook his head.
I'm proud they're looking out for each other. They're a really good hardworking tech crew who're constantly talking about reducing lunch spend, money saving tips, maximizing TSP contributions, and debt payoff and and investing strategies.
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Witnessed four uniformed Sergeants telling another one not to buy a new EV SUV, financed, when he has a reliable Japanese SUV that's paid off and less than 5 years old. The senior-most gave me a look, I just smiled and nodded in approval. He smiled back then rolled his eyes and shook his head.
I'm proud they're looking out for each other. They're a really good hardworking tech crew who're constantly talking about reducing lunch spend, money saving tips, maximizing TSP contributions, and debt payoff and and investing strategies.
Spendy coworkers could get you killed in the military. Financial distress is one of the key factors the DOJ has identified as leading people to spy against their own country.
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Witnessed four uniformed Sergeants telling another one not to buy a new EV SUV, financed, when he has a reliable Japanese SUV that's paid off and less than 5 years old. The senior-most gave me a look, I just smiled and nodded in approval. He smiled back then rolled his eyes and shook his head.
I'm proud they're looking out for each other. They're a really good hardworking tech crew who're constantly talking about reducing lunch spend, money saving tips, maximizing TSP contributions, and debt payoff and and investing strategies.
Spendy coworkers could get you killed in the military. Financial distress is one of the key factors the DOJ has identified as leading people to spy against their own country.
Absolutely true!
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Witnessed four uniformed Sergeants telling another one not to buy a new EV SUV, financed, when he has a reliable Japanese SUV that's paid off and less than 5 years old. The senior-most gave me a look, I just smiled and nodded in approval. He smiled back then rolled his eyes and shook his head.
I'm proud they're looking out for each other. They're a really good hardworking tech crew who're constantly talking about reducing lunch spend, money saving tips, maximizing TSP contributions, and debt payoff and and investing strategies.
Spendy coworkers could get you killed in the military. Financial distress is one of the key factors the DOJ has identified as leading people to spy against their own country.
Absolutely true!
Yup! One of the key indicators. I think you meant DoD, not DoJ.
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Witnessed four uniformed Sergeants telling another one not to buy a new EV SUV, financed, when he has a reliable Japanese SUV that's paid off and less than 5 years old. The senior-most gave me a look, I just smiled and nodded in approval. He smiled back then rolled his eyes and shook his head.
I'm proud they're looking out for each other. They're a really good hardworking tech crew who're constantly talking about reducing lunch spend, money saving tips, maximizing TSP contributions, and debt payoff and and investing strategies.
Spendy coworkers could get you killed in the military. Financial distress is one of the key factors the DOJ has identified as leading people to spy against their own country.
Absolutely true!
Yup! One of the key indicators. I think you meant DoD, not DoJ.
DOJ, DoD is not the boy department which deals with spooky stuff.
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I have reminded two friends over the years that they can be engineers while at home. One was acting clueless about how their HVAC system worked. The other was struggling with a car troubleshooting situation. These were both quite sharp mechanical engineers, but seemed like they turned it off at home. Shrug
Some people are good X engineers. Some people are engineers to the very core. MIL has stories of DH doing engineering things at four, including drafting the designs for his Lego builds.
I have been called an honorary engineer and I can generally keep up with him on personal projects, but when it comes to what he does professionally, every one of his managers and most of his colleagues that I have met have used superlatives.
My son is designing things in Minecraft like an auto-sorter. I can see which direction he's going at :D
On topic, I have a co-worker that was a team lead at one of his previous jobs. The IT department which he was the lead of was likely going to be outsourced and my colleague had a talk with the CEO and asked them to give him a severance proposal because he wasn't going to do that job since he didn't believe in the validity of the decision.
Now he's 90k richer, working at my employer and we're very happy with his professional baggage and work ethics.
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Occasionally, I talk to a coworker in another department. She has been here part-time (3 ten hour days per week) for probably 5-6 years. Back during benefit enrollment in November, I asked if she was taking one of our new options and she replied that she used her husband's insurance because she wasn't eligible for anything as a part-timer. I mentioned that she needed to check on that as 30 hours/week is enough for our company.
She checked with HR and started a 401K deduction and now gets the company match plus took one of our other benefits that was lower priced. Yesterday, she came into my office asking about investments and savings. I sent her some information from the money guy show and the link to rich, broke or dead plus a couple of other sites.
I hate that she missed out on a few years of company match due to not understanding levels of part-time work.
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My glass must be half full today, because I love the fact that you helped her, and that she took your advice and seems to be grabbing it by both horns!
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My wife says real engineers are 24/7. We can't turn it off. I know several others in that category.
This is true of my husband as well. It can honestly be pretty irritating, lol.
I must not be a "real engineer" then...haha. I have absolutely no problem turning it off. Maybe because I'm pretty jaded after a long career in a megacorp!
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It is vastly entertaining at family gatherings (highly peppered with engineers) to mention that 'x' is not working properly (like a recliner not un-reclining) and watch all the engineers gather around 'x' to fix it.
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It is vastly entertaining at family gatherings (highly peppered with engineers) to mention that 'x' is not working properly (like a recliner not un-reclining) and watch all the engineers gather around 'x' to fix it.
Then the mechanic slips in to fix it while they start drawing.
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It is vastly entertaining at family gatherings (highly peppered with engineers) to mention that 'x' is not working properly (like a recliner not un-reclining) and watch all the engineers gather around 'x' to fix it.
Then the mechanic slips in to fix it while they start drawing.
Or the person with the analytical mind. I fixed something once by seeing how something worked, except it didn't. Tightened one screw and it worked. The person who used it all the time had no idea of what to do. ;-)
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It is vastly entertaining at family gatherings (highly peppered with engineers) to mention that 'x' is not working properly (like a recliner not un-reclining) and watch all the engineers gather around 'x' to fix it.
Then the mechanic slips in to fix it while they start drawing.
Or the person with the analytical mind. I fixed something once by seeing how something worked, except it didn't. Tightened one screw and it worked. The person who used it all the time had no idea of what to do. ;-)
Friends of one of my housemates were working on a car that wouldn’t start.
The had the steering wheel column covers off, as the key wouldn’t turn the ON switch.
I asked if they had tried WD-40. Got quizzical and dismissive looks, as these were engineering students who had been struggling with their car for over an hour.
WD-40 straw in the key slot, one good squirt and told them to try that.
Got quizzical and dismissive looks, as these were engineering students who had been struggling with their car for over an hour.
Key in, turn and instant startup.
“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”. — Clarke
edit after verifying Clarke quote
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It is vastly entertaining at family gatherings (highly peppered with engineers) to mention that 'x' is not working properly (like a recliner not un-reclining) and watch all the engineers gather around 'x' to fix it.
Then the mechanic slips in to fix it while they start drawing.
Sounds like a "how many engineers does it take to..." in there somewhere.
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It is vastly entertaining at family gatherings (highly peppered with engineers) to mention that 'x' is not working properly (like a recliner not un-reclining) and watch all the engineers gather around 'x' to fix it.
Then the mechanic slips in to fix it while they start drawing.
Lol, in my husband's business, the saying goes the engineers design it, then the trades figure out a way to make it function.
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It is vastly entertaining at family gatherings (highly peppered with engineers) to mention that 'x' is not working properly (like a recliner not un-reclining) and watch all the engineers gather around 'x' to fix it.
Then the mechanic slips in to fix it while they start drawing.
Lol, in my husband's business, the saying goes the engineers design it, then the trades figure out a way to make it function.
LOL that's so funny. I guess they should fire the engineers then as they are useless! Hey, I'm a business consultant now
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It is vastly entertaining at family gatherings (highly peppered with engineers) to mention that 'x' is not working properly (like a recliner not un-reclining) and watch all the engineers gather around 'x' to fix it.
Then the mechanic slips in to fix it while they start drawing.
Lol, in my husband's business, the saying goes the engineers design it, then the trades figure out a way to make it function.
LOL that's so funny. I guess they should fire the engineers then as they are useless! Hey, I'm a business consultant now
Hey, @dragoncar, how are you doing?
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It is vastly entertaining at family gatherings (highly peppered with engineers) to mention that 'x' is not working properly (like a recliner not un-reclining) and watch all the engineers gather around 'x' to fix it.
Then the mechanic slips in to fix it while they start drawing.
Lol, in my husband's business, the saying goes the engineers design it, then the trades figure out a way to make it function.
LOL that's so funny. I guess they should fire the engineers then as they are useless! Hey, I'm a business consultant now
Hey, @dragoncar, how are you doing?
Haha I’m doing well how are you? I’m never going to make it to 10k posts but maybe we can catch up a bit in various threads. I’ll see you over in DPOYM