Overheard at Work 2

[Reynold]

Have one to contribute, I was at a work event recently with my DW and she was talking to one of the senior people at my work location, very nice guy.  Our work place gets lunches brought in once a week to encourage people to all come in that day, we did that even before Covid since some of us work remotely.  He mentioned to her that I had been seen taking leftovers from the lunches home, and that I seemed to still "live like a grad student".  He is correct, I had noticed that it was very rare that anyone but me ever ate the leftovers (pizza, wings, sandwiches, etc.) so I brought most of them home rather than see them thrown out a few days later.  We have averaged 1-2 free meals a week from work leftovers for the last decade. 

He also brought up that I was retiring soon (which is well known around work), and said wistfully that he didn't know how we could manage that.  Apparently he did not get the connection between those two things. . .

[LennStar]

It's remarkable how often people are unable to see that!
Like complaining about high car payments and in the next sentence saying to be envious that you don't have those because you drive a beater. Not quite the same, but still...

[ixtap]

It's remarkable how often people are unable to see that!
Like complaining about high car payments and in the next sentence saying to be envious that you don't have those because you drive a beater. Not quite the same, but still...

I don't know how you can live in such a small space/ have so little stuff --> How can you not be working full time? Isn't California sooo expensive?

Maybe, but we still manage to spend less than you. I wonder how we do it...

[Psychstache]

We just had an almost $2k car bill for my 16 year old car, though honestly, about $900 of that was regular maintenance and the rest was a repair.  Spouse and I are talking about replacing the car...but you know with the supply chain issues and inertia...still probably won't be for a couple of  years, if not longer.

It's a Toyota, so it's really only just middle aged.

hahaha... mine is a now 13 year old toyota with 215k on it... so you know, I expect we still have some time yet.

My Toyota Matrix turns 20 this month and has 150K kilometres on it.  It's still a baby.

Yeah, my matrix has just under 160k miles.  I keep wondering when it's going to go over 160k...but I don't drive that often.  I go to the office 3 days a week, so 100 miles a week would be a BIG week.  (It's 20 miles round trip).

I just sold my 'basically new' corolla to a friend of mine (how we both kept referring to it). It was an '06 with 145k miles on it.

[mgardner88]

I was in training this week and a coworker was telling me about her sister in law and her "crazy lifestyle", has three kids and have rented the same tiny townhome for 20 years, drive a car from when they first were married (20+ years ago). Only works part time and her husband doesn't make a ton of money. They take a vacation once a year and this woman does not understand how they can do it, seeing as her and her husband make triple what they do and have no kids and cant afford to survive. And why dont they buy a bigger house?? and upgrade their car? if only they could get their life together and stop the madness. How unsafe that old car was. lol... it was an interesting perspective and i wonder if family thinks the same about us sometimes. Anyway if you're in California living in a tiny house, driving some ancient car and are on here, Your family is totally baffled by your very existence.

[Taran Wanderer]

The whole concept of paying yourself first is lost on some people.  Or most people.

[charis]

I was in training this week and a coworker was telling me about her sister in law and her "crazy lifestyle", has three kids and have rented the same tiny townhome for 20 years, drive a car from when they first were married (20+ years ago). Only works part time and her husband doesn't make a ton of money. They take a vacation once a year and this woman does not understand how they can do it, seeing as her and her husband make triple what they do and have no kids and cant afford to survive. And why dont they buy a bigger house?? and upgrade their car? if only they could get their life together and stop the madness. How unsafe that old car was. lol... it was an interesting perspective and i wonder if family thinks the same about us sometimes. Anyway if you're in California living in a tiny house, driving some ancient car and are on here, Your family is totally baffled by your very existence.

I've always wondered what my family and friends think of our lifestyle.  I would bet that they just don't think I make much money.  I have a job that most people, even those in the profession, have no idea what it pays.  I even had a friend assume that I was in an unpaid internship when I first started. 

I think they are too polite to come out and ask, but I've had a one or two friends try to commiserate about expenses, assuming that I could relate because we drive 10+ year old cars, live in a "starter" home in an no frills neighborhood, and our kids are in public school.  I will never address it unless someone asks directly, because it feels like bragging.  And it's good to fly under the radar.

[RunningintoFI]

Have to share a recent work story.

Have a coworker who is married with two kids.  Between coworker and their partner, they earn >$250K/year in a fairly LCOL area in the US.  Said coworker was complaining to me about being house poor and how expensive kids are and how they won't qualify for loan forgiveness because of their high income - these are $100K student loans that have existed for nearly 15 years now and sounds like they haven't even attempted to pay them down. 

Mind you this same family lives in a $500K house, 35 minutes from both partners jobs that are located in the same area but they drive separately for kid reasons - meaning they need to be able to pick up and drop the kids off at the private school right next to where they work.

I had to roll my eyes the other day when this coworker came into work and mentioned that for the holidays one partner purchased a new sports car w/ $600/month car payments.  Of course, acquiring this new vehicle did not necessitate selling the old commuting truck.  No, that continues to be driven because the new car doesn't have the right winter tires to be driving around with.  Not to be outdone, the other family member acquired two cats to add on to the family bills while also looking to buy more land to house a horse that can no longer be ridden.. 

The real icing on the cake - this sports car has some of the highest insurance rates around because it has been the most ticketed vehicle in the US for three years running.  Across the board, I don't even know what to say most days because the levels of time and money wasted simply astonish me for two otherwise very bright individuals. 

[LennStar]

I had to roll my eyes the other day when this coworker came into work and mentioned that for the holidays one partner purchased a new sports car w/ $600/month car payments.  Of course, acquiring this new vehicle did not necessitate selling the old commuting truck.  No, that continues to be driven because the new car doesn't have the right winter tires to be driving around with. 

I am so happy I didn't drink when I read that.
I guess it's meaningless to ask you what would be the right tires and why the car does not have them. Has it 30" wheels? Is it produced in Saudi Arabia who have never heard of winter tires?

[RWTL]

A few months ago I was talking with a colleague about the future and I mentioned that my goal was to retire in a in a few years (I didn't want to give away that it would be less than a year away).  She was shocked and didn't believe it was possible.  I've known her quite well over the last 15 years - we both started at the same time with the same company.  I know approx how much she makes - I would guess around 250K between her and her husband.  You would think this salary would enable someone to retire early - especially someone on this forum.  Her comment was that she was still paying student loans (she's been out of school for 15 years), a mortgage (her house is now on the market for 1.3M), and her expenses are way too much to retire.  All her kids are in private school. 

Her comment towards the end of our discussion was, "You must really be good with investments, can you share any tips with me the next time you find a good stock?"  I told her there aren't any secrets - just good decisions and investments are only half the equation....the expense side is also a key piece.  I recommended she read The Simple Path to Wealth.  She shook her head and said, I hope you know what you are doing and don't have to come back to work - I can't see how you could have enough money.

I thought to myself - yep, I bet you don't.   

[Gronnie]

Have to share a recent work story.

Have a coworker who is married with two kids.  Between coworker and their partner, they earn >$250K/year in a fairly LCOL area in the US.  Said coworker was complaining to me about being house poor and how expensive kids are and how they won't qualify for loan forgiveness because of their high income - these are $100K student loans that have existed for nearly 15 years now and sounds like they haven't even attempted to pay them down. 

Mind you this same family lives in a $500K house, 35 minutes from both partners jobs that are located in the same area but they drive separately for kid reasons - meaning they need to be able to pick up and drop the kids off at the private school right next to where they work.

I had to roll my eyes the other day when this coworker came into work and mentioned that for the holidays one partner purchased a new sports car w/ $600/month car payments.  Of course, acquiring this new vehicle did not necessitate selling the old commuting truck.  No, that continues to be driven because the new car doesn't have the right winter tires to be driving around with.  Not to be outdone, the other family member acquired two cats to add on to the family bills while also looking to buy more land to house a horse that can no longer be ridden.. 

The real icing on the cake - this sports car has some of the highest insurance rates around because it has been the most ticketed vehicle in the US for three years running.  Across the board, I don't even know what to say most days because the levels of time and money wasted simply astonish me for two otherwise very bright individuals.

I worked in collections many years ago and some of the stories about not having money while having tons of "toys" would boggle your mind. $200k+ income with mutliple car, boat, motorcycle, etc payments but "I can only pay $10/mo on this medical bill" and if you make any suggestion otherwise they would use it as a good excuse to hang up on you. Then they would be shocked when they got sued because clearly they could afford to pay the bill they just needed to make some different choices.

[blue_green_sparks]

A few months ago I was talking with a colleague about the future and I mentioned that my goal was to retire in a in a few years (I didn't want to give away that it would be less than a year away).  She was shocked and didn't believe it was possible.  I've known her quite well over the last 15 years - we both started at the same time with the same company.  I know approx how much she makes - I would guess around 250K between her and her husband.  You would think this salary would enable someone to retire early - especially someone on this forum.  Her comment was that she was still paying student loans (she's been out of school for 15 years), a mortgage (her house is now on the market for 1.3M), and her expenses are way too much to retire.  All her kids are in private school. 

Her comment towards the end of our discussion was, "You must really be good with investments, can you share any tips with me the next time you find a good stock?"  I told her there aren't any secrets - just good decisions and investments are only half the equation....the expense side is also a key piece.  I recommended she read The Simple Path to Wealth.  She shook her head and said, I hope you know what you are doing and don't have to come back to work - I can't see how you could have enough money.

I thought to myself - yep, I bet you don't.

I also never discussed the details of my plan to retire early with coworkers. There was considerable disbelief when I gave notice. Most of them were resigned to work until they dropped but some could have retired any day but just couldn't do it even though that's all they talked about.

[ixtap]

A few months ago I was talking with a colleague about the future and I mentioned that my goal was to retire in a in a few years (I didn't want to give away that it would be less than a year away).  She was shocked and didn't believe it was possible.  I've known her quite well over the last 15 years - we both started at the same time with the same company.  I know approx how much she makes - I would guess around 250K between her and her husband.  You would think this salary would enable someone to retire early - especially someone on this forum.  Her comment was that she was still paying student loans (she's been out of school for 15 years), a mortgage (her house is now on the market for 1.3M), and her expenses are way too much to retire.  All her kids are in private school. 

Her comment towards the end of our discussion was, "You must really be good with investments, can you share any tips with me the next time you find a good stock?"  I told her there aren't any secrets - just good decisions and investments are only half the equation....the expense side is also a key piece.  I recommended she read The Simple Path to Wealth.  She shook her head and said, I hope you know what you are doing and don't have to come back to work - I can't see how you could have enough money.

I thought to myself - yep, I bet you don't.

I also never discussed the details of my plan to retire early with coworkers. There was considerable disbelief when I gave notice. Most of them were resigned to work until they dropped but some could have retired any day but just couldn't do it even though that's all they talked about.

DH has talked about a sabbatical or leaving all together awhile, at least with a couple of colleagues. The same people who marvel at his daily salad (once he developed some food intolerances, he even brought it on the rare occasion everyone would get together lunch) or his biking to work attribute his non dependence on his job entirely to not having kids.

[RWTL]

Have to share a recent work story.

Have a coworker who is married with two kids.  Between coworker and their partner, they earn >$250K/year in a fairly LCOL area in the US.  Said coworker was complaining to me about being house poor and how expensive kids are and how they won't qualify for loan forgiveness because of their high income - these are $100K student loans that have existed for nearly 15 years now and sounds like they haven't even attempted to pay them down. 

Mind you this same family lives in a $500K house, 35 minutes from both partners jobs that are located in the same area but they drive separately for kid reasons - meaning they need to be able to pick up and drop the kids off at the private school right next to where they work.

I had to roll my eyes the other day when this coworker came into work and mentioned that for the holidays one partner purchased a new sports car w/ $600/month car payments.  Of course, acquiring this new vehicle did not necessitate selling the old commuting truck.  No, that continues to be driven because the new car doesn't have the right winter tires to be driving around with.  Not to be outdone, the other family member acquired two cats to add on to the family bills while also looking to buy more land to house a horse that can no longer be ridden.. 

The real icing on the cake - this sports car has some of the highest insurance rates around because it has been the most ticketed vehicle in the US for three years running.  Across the board, I don't even know what to say most days because the levels of time and money wasted simply astonish me for two otherwise very bright individuals.

I worked in collections many years ago and some of the stories about not having money while having tons of "toys" would boggle your mind. $200k+ income with mutliple car, boat, motorcycle, etc payments but "I can only pay $10/mo on this medical bill" and if you make any suggestion otherwise they would use it as a good excuse to hang up on you. Then they would be shocked when they got sued because clearly they could afford to pay the bill they just needed to make some different choices.

I had a very similar experience collecting for medical bills.  I remember talking to one lady who lived in a very wealthy part of town to pay $50/month....which she paid for about 2 months before stopping.  I sent it to legal for them to figure out.

There were plenty of times I just wrote them off if they really didn't seem to have any money.

[Taran Wanderer]

Having never been to collections, am I thinking correctly that you can see their credit report with all outstanding loans and payments? So when you have the conversation with them, you already kinda know what you’re dealing with? Is income included, too?  That would be a fascinating experience for a little while.  Then it would just be depressing.

[RWTL]

Having never been to collections, am I thinking correctly that you can see their credit report with all outstanding loans and payments? So when you have the conversation with them, you already kinda know what you’re dealing with? Is income included, too?  That would be a fascinating experience for a little while.  Then it would just be depressing.

Mine was pre-collection at the business level.  So, I really didn't have much to go on.  I would call them and ask them what they could afford to pay on a monthly basis to cover their outstanding bill.   We tried to collect everything we could in this manner before sending to collection since we only got a fraction of what was recovered once it went to collection.

[Agatha Thrifty]

Have to share a recent work story.

Have a coworker who is married with two kids.  Between coworker and their partner, they earn >$250K/year in a fairly LCOL area in the US.  Said coworker was complaining to me about being house poor and how expensive kids are and how they won't qualify for loan forgiveness because of their high income - these are $100K student loans that have existed for nearly 15 years now and sounds like they haven't even attempted to pay them down. 

Mind you this same family lives in a $500K house, 35 minutes from both partners jobs that are located in the same area but they drive separately for kid reasons - meaning they need to be able to pick up and drop the kids off at the private school right next to where they work.

I had to roll my eyes the other day when this coworker came into work and mentioned that for the holidays one partner purchased a new sports car w/ $600/month car payments.  Of course, acquiring this new vehicle did not necessitate selling the old commuting truck.  No, that continues to be driven because the new car doesn't have the right winter tires to be driving around with.  Not to be outdone, the other family member acquired two cats to add on to the family bills while also looking to buy more land to house a horse that can no longer be ridden.. 

The real icing on the cake - this sports car has some of the highest insurance rates around because it has been the most ticketed vehicle in the US for three years running.  Across the board, I don't even know what to say most days because the levels of time and money wasted simply astonish me for two otherwise very bright individuals.

I worked in collections many years ago and some of the stories about not having money while having tons of "toys" would boggle your mind. $200k+ income with mutliple car, boat, motorcycle, etc payments but "I can only pay $10/mo on this medical bill" and if you make any suggestion otherwise they would use it as a good excuse to hang up on you. Then they would be shocked when they got sued because clearly they could afford to pay the bill they just needed to make some different choices.

My first grown-up job was calling people about their delinquent credit card accounts.  I decided right then I never wanted to receive that kind of call.  That was probably the first step on the path that put me here today.

[halftimer]

I worked in collections many years ago and some of the stories about not having money while having tons of "toys" would boggle your mind. $200k+ income with mutliple car, boat, motorcycle, etc payments but "I can only pay $10/mo on this medical bill" and if you make any suggestion otherwise they would use it as a good excuse to hang up on you. Then they would be shocked when they got sued because clearly they could afford to pay the bill they just needed to make some different choices.

I had a very similar experience collecting for medical bills.  I remember talking to one lady who lived in a very wealthy part of town to pay $50/month....which she paid for about 2 months before stopping.  I sent it to legal for them to figure out.

There were plenty of times I just wrote them off if they really didn't seem to have any money.
[/quote]

I am part of the committee to determine who is approved for funding for a local health service. It is really interesting to see the income statements and financial situations of families, and I am able to get many of them matched to funding when they can't afford services - sometimes even more than the official maximum amount by using bridge funding and other solutions. BUT it is even more interesting to see the mustachian/frugal/etc families who have big medical costs plus big families and medium-low incomes who are so eager to pay it forward immediately by donating to others as soon as they can VS the families who are at the very highest income we would consider (or above) who just list their need for financial assistance as basically 'we are in multiple paid classes and sports and have to travel extensively for each child to compete in their multiple interests so we don't have money for [necessary medical therapy that will make a huge difference in child's life].'

A few people also submit blatantly fraudulent claims asking for support saying they are a single parent when the proof they give shows the other parent is very much living with them and has excellent health coverage and finances, they just don't want to pay. It is shocking and sad but I can only red flag them, I can't just yell at them that they are potentially taking needed funds away from the children and families who have a very real need and that there is limited money to go around. > end rant

[Gronnie]

Having never been to collections, am I thinking correctly that you can see their credit report with all outstanding loans and payments? So when you have the conversation with them, you already kinda know what you’re dealing with? Is income included, too?  That would be a fascinating experience for a little while.  Then it would just be depressing.

The bill is due upon receipt. Most of the providers would accept payment over 90 days, but for anything longer required us to go over income, expenses, etc in order to show need.

[SwordGuy]

I've been in collections a half dozen times over my lifetime.  Not as in collecting debts, but as in not having paid them.

I've only ever ended up there when I refused to pay because the other party did not do what they said they would do - in a major fail.   I wasn't nitpicking.

For example, had a medical lab conduct a test and submit the insurance.  Insurance was denied because they submitted the wrong insurance info even though I have given them the correct info.   Told them several times over the next 90 days but they kept submitting the wrong insurance info.  Finally, they sent me the bill instead.  I refused to pay.
Why?  Because they said they would submit the claim on my insurance first and I agreed to pay the difference after they did so.   They never submitted a claim on MY insurance.   I saw no reason I should be penalized for their incompetence.   They sent me to collections.   I told them to pound sand and why.   That was the end of it.

Had a security company keep billing us for a service we canceled when we sold that house.   Threatened to put it into collections if we didn't pay.   I told them they were sending invoices thru the US mail for a service they were not providing to us and that we had cancelled.   They could back off and clean up their mistake or I would report them to the US government for postal fraud and damages to my financial reputation re: collections.   

Ok, that one didn't get to collections.  But you get the idea.

By the way, if you get into one of these pissing matches where a company keeps billing you but won't listen, get their billing transferred back to US mail instead of electronic billing.   Nobody seems to want to discuss postal fraud with the US Postal Service.   

As for damage to my credit report, I just disputed it on the three services and that was the end of it.   My credit payment history is so obviously good that no one was going to believe I had trouble paying some pissant little invoice.

[LennStar]

I am part of the committee to determine who is approved for funding for a local health service.

Coming from a "socialist" country I am not sure I understand that.
Are you talking about some sort of city-paid help for people who have no health insurance or where it is too expensive?

[Sibley]

I am part of the committee to determine who is approved for funding for a local health service.

Coming from a "socialist" country I am not sure I understand that.
Are you talking about some sort of city-paid help for people who have no health insurance or where it is too expensive?

Halftimer appears to be in MN - which is the US. So yes, people don't have health insurance or its too expensive. There's a variety of organizations that exist to provide financial assistance. Sometimes these are part of the health care system (the hospital, etc), sometimes they're independent nonprofits, sometimes its local/state/federal government, etc.

[LennStar]

I am part of the committee to determine who is approved for funding for a local health service.

Coming from a "socialist" country I am not sure I understand that.
Are you talking about some sort of city-paid help for people who have no health insurance or where it is too expensive?

Halftimer appears to be in MN - which is the US. So yes, people don't have health insurance or its too expensive. There's a variety of organizations that exist to provide financial assistance. Sometimes these are part of the health care system (the hospital, etc), sometimes they're independent nonprofits, sometimes its local/state/federal government, etc.

O.o Hospitals giving away money for healthcare?? And you guys are wondering why we Europeans can't understand your healtcare system? :D
On the other hand we expect out hospitals to run a profit, so there is that.

[halftimer]

I am part of the committee to determine who is approved for funding for a local health service.

Coming from a "socialist" country I am not sure I understand that.
Are you talking about some sort of city-paid help for people who have no health insurance or where it is too expensive?

O.o Hospitals giving away money for healthcare?? And you guys are wondering why we Europeans can't understand your healtcare system? :D
On the other hand we expect out hospitals to run a profit, so there is that.

Halftimer appears to be in MN - which is the US. So yes, people don't have health insurance or its too expensive. There's a variety of organizations that exist to provide financial assistance. Sometimes these are part of the health care system (the hospital, etc), sometimes they're independent nonprofits, sometimes its local/state/federal government, etc.

Actually, I live where most healthcare is government funded, but not this particular service. Some families are able to access services with public funds but it is a long wait time and the practitioners are not as specialist as they need (in most cases). So those families who cannot wait or need quicker intervention pay for private services or apply for funding for private services. I wish it wasn't so complicated.
*fixed the formatting

[FIRE 20/20]

...
My first grown-up job was calling people about their delinquent credit card accounts.  I decided right then I never wanted to receive that kind of call.  That was probably the first step on the path that put me here today.

Welcome to the forums, and how the heck did that great user name last this long?  I can't believe no one else thought of it before this. 

[prudent_one]

She shook her head and said, I hope you know what you are doing and don't have to come back to work - I can't see how you could have enough money.

I thought to myself - yep, I bet you don't.

I had never told anyone about my plan to go out early. So when I said something, my boss asked if I would be willing to work part-time, 100% from home, no fixed hours. The money was fantastic. So for a couple years I worked about 20 hours a week. Then bowed out for good. When I told my lifelong best friend that I had wrapped it up, he was very concerned that I didn't know what I was doing. I had never once discussed money with him (or anyone else besides my wife). We live a very low-key lifestyle. Nothing flashy. So he asked me a ton of questions while avoiding specific numbers to gauge whether I was out of my mind or not, as my career never sounded like a lucrative thing. "Have you really looked at all your expenses? Including the ones that only come up yearly or quarterly? Have you looked into what you'll get from Social Security? Do you think you have a good cushion for when things get bad for a while? You know if you take Social Security early your check will be reduced. Are you sure you're not going too early? It might be hard to get a similar job if you change your mind later."

While inside I was so appreciative that he was that concerned, I could tell he was uncomfortable doing it (having this conversation we had never had before in 40 years).

[RWTL]

She shook her head and said, I hope you know what you are doing and don't have to come back to work - I can't see how you could have enough money.

I thought to myself - yep, I bet you don't.

I had never told anyone about my plan to go out early. So when I said something, my boss asked if I would be willing to work part-time, 100% from home, no fixed hours. The money was fantastic. So for a couple years I worked about 20 hours a week. Then bowed out for good. When I told my lifelong best friend that I had wrapped it up, he was very concerned that I didn't know what I was doing. I had never once discussed money with him (or anyone else besides my wife). We live a very low-key lifestyle. Nothing flashy. So he asked me a ton of questions while avoiding specific numbers to gauge whether I was out of my mind or not, as my career never sounded like a lucrative thing. "Have you really looked at all your expenses? Including the ones that only come up yearly or quarterly? Have you looked into what you'll get from Social Security? Do you think you have a good cushion for when things get bad for a while? You know if you take Social Security early your check will be reduced. Are you sure you're not going too early? It might be hard to get a similar job if you change your mind later."

While inside I was so appreciative that he was that concerned, I could tell he was uncomfortable doing it (having this conversation we had never had before in 40 years).

Most people are living in the thought that they can't retire until they are in their 60's (or later).  I'm 51 and I think it just blows peoples mind that I could possibly have saved enough.  In their own situation, the money flows out constantly so thinking about retirement is overwhelming.

My kids on the other hand are ready to retire and they haven't barely gotten started on their careers.

[ATtiny85]

She shook her head and said, I hope you know what you are doing and don't have to come back to work - I can't see how you could have enough money.

I thought to myself - yep, I bet you don't.

I had never told anyone about my plan to go out early. So when I said something, my boss asked if I would be willing to work part-time, 100% from home, no fixed hours. The money was fantastic. So for a couple years I worked about 20 hours a week. Then bowed out for good. When I told my lifelong best friend that I had wrapped it up, he was very concerned that I didn't know what I was doing. I had never once discussed money with him (or anyone else besides my wife). We live a very low-key lifestyle. Nothing flashy. So he asked me a ton of questions while avoiding specific numbers to gauge whether I was out of my mind or not, as my career never sounded like a lucrative thing. "Have you really looked at all your expenses? Including the ones that only come up yearly or quarterly? Have you looked into what you'll get from Social Security? Do you think you have a good cushion for when things get bad for a while? You know if you take Social Security early your check will be reduced. Are you sure you're not going too early? It might be hard to get a similar job if you change your mind later."

While inside I was so appreciative that he was that concerned, I could tell he was uncomfortable doing it (having this conversation we had never had before in 40 years).

You should have flashed the secret MMM sign, maybe he is here. Those were good questions and show an awareness.

[AlanStache]

I got a story that swings the other way today at work.

Talking with a guy that does very specialized work and basically lives out of a suitcase traveling around the world (he seems to like it mostly) on the pros and cons of keeping his "home base" apartment we got a little deeper and he mentioned having a 90% savings rate!!!  Not sure his exact math but by any measure he is doing well.  Not sure his long term plain but he seemed aware that that 90% should be invested and at some point he could live off the proceeds. 

[eyesonthehorizon]

You should have flashed the secret MMM sign, maybe he is here. Those were good questions and show an awareness.

I was thinking this too. Finger-stache?

[Dicey]

She shook her head and said, I hope you know what you are doing and don't have to come back to work - I can't see how you could have enough money.

I thought to myself - yep, I bet you don't.

I had never told anyone about my plan to go out early. So when I said something, my boss asked if I would be willing to work part-time, 100% from home, no fixed hours. The money was fantastic. So for a couple years I worked about 20 hours a week. Then bowed out for good. When I told my lifelong best friend that I had wrapped it up, he was very concerned that I didn't know what I was doing. I had never once discussed money with him (or anyone else besides my wife). We live a very low-key lifestyle. Nothing flashy. So he asked me a ton of questions while avoiding specific numbers to gauge whether I was out of my mind or not, as my career never sounded like a lucrative thing. "Have you really looked at all your expenses? Including the ones that only come up yearly or quarterly? Have you looked into what you'll get from Social Security? Do you think you have a good cushion for when things get bad for a while? You know if you take Social Security early your check will be reduced. Are you sure you're not going too early? It might be hard to get a similar job if you change your mind later."

While inside I was so appreciative that he was that concerned, I could tell he was uncomfortable doing it (having this conversation we had never had before in 40 years).

You should have flashed the secret MMM sign, maybe he is here. Those were good questions and show an awareness.

Slight tangent: this is part of what make Camps and Meetups so freaking awesome. A virtually taboo subject IRL is discussed freely and fluently with plenty of like-minded others. So energizing!

[Lyngi]

A new coworker has been complaining she has no money.  She got into a car accident a year ago and rather than fix the car (a Toyota, I think) she took the settlement and bought a new Nissan.  It's pretty and flashy.  Now, she is a month late on her car payment.  Her windshield is cracked and she can't afford to replace it.  She is also behind on the "rent" she pays to her boyfriend so she can live in his house.  Credit cards are maxed.  They can't refinance their house.  Debt to income ratio is too high.
    I mentioned that maybe she could sell her Nissan, buy a used Corolla.  Nope, she needs a new car so she doesn't break down on the highway.  Tow truck?  road side assistance?  Nope and nope.  To be fair, she lives in a kind of rural area, but she drives on a major interstate.  Help wouldn't be far away.  I drive a 2009 Ford.  I told her I paid $5k for it.  I also have a $5k Prius. 
    We have been really short handed at work, she could  work extra shifts to help.  She'd probably even get OT. Nope, too tired.  She has made a bunch of crafts and is trying to sell them to us.   We were talking about Christmas decorations. She has a lot of stuff already set up, plus she has a storage unit that has even MORE Christmas decorations.  I told her I have one tote of decorations.   
      I haven't worked with her very long, so she doesn't know about the cult I belong to.
     

[Agatha Thrifty]

A new coworker has been complaining she has no money.  She got into a car accident a year ago and rather than fix the car (a Toyota, I think) she took the settlement and bought a new Nissan.  It's pretty and flashy.  Now, she is a month late on her car payment.  Her windshield is cracked and she can't afford to replace it.  She is also behind on the "rent" she pays to her boyfriend so she can live in his house.  Credit cards are maxed.  They can't refinance their house.  Debt to income ratio is too high.
    I mentioned that maybe she could sell her Nissan, buy a used Corolla.  Nope, she needs a new car so she doesn't break down on the highway.  Tow truck?  road side assistance?  Nope and nope. 
   

So glad my first car (20 years old when I bought it) was a Pinto and in pre-cell phone days to boot.  Good anchoring point.  For the record, she only ditched me twice in ten years, and only once for engine problems - the other time was just a flat tire.  In both instances I was within half a mile of public telephones from which I could call dad/bf to come get me.

Granted, I was a lot younger then.  Today of course I have roadside assistance for my 2009 Honda Fit, which I did use once to get the battery jumped.  I can stand waiting for a tow truck once per decade, if it comes to that.

[eyesonthehorizon]

Slight tangent: this is part of what make Camps and Meetups so freaking awesome. A virtually taboo subject IRL is discussed freely and fluently with plenty of like-minded others. So energizing!

I used to really long for this. I considered going to a showing of the Playing with FIRE doc, although kinda glad I skipped it after reading the book. I still do wish for more real-life community, but increasingly worry about the implicit risk of non-anonymous exposure of even an outline of my financial position. I have found I can generally can only be detailed with people making twice or more my income, since it gives them a chance of saving something like as much.

The only person I've ever met in real life who knew who MMM was, a coworker, was kind of a terrible person - knowing their competitive nature I figured I'd better not sound more successful at it than they were. Turned out later I'd dodged a bullet by lowballing my progress & making myself sound boring.

[clarkfan1979]

Slight tangent: this is part of what make Camps and Meetups so freaking awesome. A virtually taboo subject IRL is discussed freely and fluently with plenty of like-minded others. So energizing!

I used to really long for this. I considered going to a showing of the Playing with FIRE doc, although kinda glad I skipped it after reading the book. I still do wish for more real-life community, but increasingly worry about the implicit risk of non-anonymous exposure of even an outline of my financial position. I have found I can generally can only be detailed with people making twice or more my income, since it gives them a chance of saving something like as much.

The only person I've ever met in real life who knew who MMM was, a coworker, was kind of a terrible person - knowing their competitive nature I figured I'd better not sound more successful at it than they were. Turned out later I'd dodged a bullet by lowballing my progress & making myself sound boring.

One of my co-workers had two rentals and we would swap stories of being a landlord. It was mostly venting to each other, but part of it was sharing information to help each person get better. He sold his rentals and verbally told me he doesn't want to hear any of my stories He said, "I'm out of the rental game and I don't need the stress." We spent the last two years talking about this and now it's immediately off limits? Kind of weird, but whatever.

He sold at the very beginning of COVID-19 when things were a little slow and down. Now two years later, he makes comments to other people at work that I have too much money. I think he has some small regret of selling at a perceived low point. He vents his anger by telling other people my financial position without my permission. Be careful who you share financials with at work.

[pachnik]

Slight tangent: this is part of what make Camps and Meetups so freaking awesome. A virtually taboo subject IRL is discussed freely and fluently with plenty of like-minded others. So energizing!

I used to really long for this. I considered going to a showing of the Playing with FIRE doc, although kinda glad I skipped it after reading the book. I still do wish for more real-life community, but increasingly worry about the implicit risk of non-anonymous exposure of even an outline of my financial position. I have found I can generally can only be detailed with people making twice or more my income, since it gives them a chance of saving something like as much.

The only person I've ever met in real life who knew who MMM was, a coworker, was kind of a terrible person - knowing their competitive nature I figured I'd better not sound more successful at it than they were. Turned out later I'd dodged a bullet by lowballing my progress & making myself sound boring.

One of my co-workers had two rentals and we would swap stories of being a landlord. It was mostly venting to each other, but part of it was sharing information to help each person get better. He sold his rentals and verbally told me he doesn't want to hear any of my stories He said, "I'm out of the rental game and I don't need the stress." We spent the last two years talking about this and now it's immediately off limits? Kind of weird, but whatever.

He sold at the very beginning of COVID-19 when things were a little slow and down. Now two years later, he makes comments to other people at work that I have too much money. I think he has some small regret of selling at a perceived low point. He vents his anger by telling other people my financial position without my permission. Be careful who you share financials with at work.

Yikes, Clarkfan1979!  That sounds really uncomfortable for you.  I am sorry your co-worker behaves like this.   

[solon]

Slight tangent: this is part of what make Camps and Meetups so freaking awesome. A virtually taboo subject IRL is discussed freely and fluently with plenty of like-minded others. So energizing!

I used to really long for this. I considered going to a showing of the Playing with FIRE doc, although kinda glad I skipped it after reading the book. I still do wish for more real-life community, but increasingly worry about the implicit risk of non-anonymous exposure of even an outline of my financial position. I have found I can generally can only be detailed with people making twice or more my income, since it gives them a chance of saving something like as much.

The only person I've ever met in real life who knew who MMM was, a coworker, was kind of a terrible person - knowing their competitive nature I figured I'd better not sound more successful at it than they were. Turned out later I'd dodged a bullet by lowballing my progress & making myself sound boring.

One of my co-workers had two rentals and we would swap stories of being a landlord. It was mostly venting to each other, but part of it was sharing information to help each person get better. He sold his rentals and verbally told me he doesn't want to hear any of my stories He said, "I'm out of the rental game and I don't need the stress." We spent the last two years talking about this and now it's immediately off limits? Kind of weird, but whatever.

He sold at the very beginning of COVID-19 when things were a little slow and down. Now two years later, he makes comments to other people at work that I have too much money. I think he has some small regret of selling at a perceived low point. He vents his anger by telling other people my financial position without my permission. Be careful who you share financials with at work.

You're going to have to burn this bridge.

"Carl, I understand you have been telling people about my financials. I would like you to stop."
...
Carl asks some questions, maybe a little discussion
...
"Can you promise me you will stop?" Keep pressing until you get a Yes.

[eyesonthehorizon]

Slight tangent: this is part of what make Camps and Meetups so freaking awesome. A virtually taboo subject IRL is discussed freely and fluently with plenty of like-minded others. So energizing!

I used to really long for this. I considered going to a showing of the Playing with FIRE doc, although kinda glad I skipped it after reading the book. I still do wish for more real-life community, but increasingly worry about the implicit risk of non-anonymous exposure of even an outline of my financial position. I have found I can generally can only be detailed with people making twice or more my income, since it gives them a chance of saving something like as much.

The only person I've ever met in real life who knew who MMM was, a coworker, was kind of a terrible person - knowing their competitive nature I figured I'd better not sound more successful at it than they were. Turned out later I'd dodged a bullet by lowballing my progress & making myself sound boring.

One of my co-workers had two rentals and we would swap stories of being a landlord. It was mostly venting to each other, but part of it was sharing information to help each person get better. He sold his rentals and verbally told me he doesn't want to hear any of my stories He said, "I'm out of the rental game and I don't need the stress." We spent the last two years talking about this and now it's immediately off limits? Kind of weird, but whatever.

He sold at the very beginning of COVID-19 when things were a little slow and down. Now two years later, he makes comments to other people at work that I have too much money. I think he has some small regret of selling at a perceived low point. He vents his anger by telling other people my financial position without my permission. Be careful who you share financials with at work.

Yikes! Huge yikes!! I guess it's the difference between a friendship vs. misery who loved company, but that's awful. That's someone who only sees you as a means to their end & repurposed you once they got out of the market.

I tend to lean hard into being a cheapskate DINK if my lack of financial stress comes up (I have a tendency to forget it's payday.) People I'm actually close to - people who'll go out of their way to help, or will pick up slack for those out sick, for example - I'll share a little more, that I'm partly bold in speaking truth to power because "I could afford to take some months off if I had to." (Infinite months is still measured in months.) It's given me the chance to be a voice for those who can't afford to speak up more than once.

[Wintergreen78]

Slight tangent: this is part of what make Camps and Meetups so freaking awesome. A virtually taboo subject IRL is discussed freely and fluently with plenty of like-minded others. So energizing!

I used to really long for this. I considered going to a showing of the Playing with FIRE doc, although kinda glad I skipped it after reading the book. I still do wish for more real-life community, but increasingly worry about the implicit risk of non-anonymous exposure of even an outline of my financial position. I have found I can generally can only be detailed with people making twice or more my income, since it gives them a chance of saving something like as much.

The only person I've ever met in real life who knew who MMM was, a coworker, was kind of a terrible person - knowing their competitive nature I figured I'd better not sound more successful at it than they were. Turned out later I'd dodged a bullet by lowballing my progress & making myself sound boring.

One of my co-workers had two rentals and we would swap stories of being a landlord. It was mostly venting to each other, but part of it was sharing information to help each person get better. He sold his rentals and verbally told me he doesn't want to hear any of my stories He said, "I'm out of the rental game and I don't need the stress." We spent the last two years talking about this and now it's immediately off limits? Kind of weird, but whatever.

He sold at the very beginning of COVID-19 when things were a little slow and down. Now two years later, he makes comments to other people at work that I have too much money. I think he has some small regret of selling at a perceived low point. He vents his anger by telling other people my financial position without my permission. Be careful who you share financials with at work.

You're going to have to burn this bridge.

"Carl, I understand you have been telling people about my financials. I would like you to stop."
...
Carl asks some questions, maybe a little discussion
...
"Can you promise me you will stop?" Keep pressing until you get a Yes.

This was great life lesson for me: how to deal with people who deflect or change the subject when they don’t want to answer something.

Realizing you could just repeat yourself and stick to the same thing until it was addressed was amazing!

[Sugaree]

From a co-worker this morning:  "It's not like any of us can contribute the max to our TSPs with what they pay us."  I'm just biting my tongue because I'm doing it, plus an IRA and HSA.  You'd think that they would have figured it out by now because I always know how much per paycheck it takes to get there. 

[Fomerly known as something]

From a co-worker this morning:  "It's not like any of us can contribute the max to our TSPs with what they pay us."  I'm just biting my tongue because I'm doing it, plus an IRA and HSA.  You'd think that they would have figured it out by now because I always know how much per paycheck it takes to get there.

Clearly it’s not my department where several of us lecture new people on the joys of maxing out.  Shout out to the GS 9 soon to be 11 who is doing so right now, per Erin groceries are expensive.

[ATtiny85]

From a co-worker this morning:  "It's not like any of us can contribute the max to our TSPs with what they pay us."  I'm just biting my tongue because I'm doing it, plus an IRA and HSA.  You'd think that they would have figured it out by now because I always know how much per paycheck it takes to get there.

Clearly it’s not my department where several of us lecture new people on the joys of maxing out.  Shout out to the GS 9 soon to be 11 who is doing so right now, per Erin groceries are expensive.

I have encouraged a few newer engineers "you don't have to max it this year, but start working on a plan to get there in the next three." Two of them really had never considered anything except whatever the auto-enroll percentage is, and did not even know there was a max. Hopefully they at least worked to get some education on the subject.

I get not being "able" to max it when you are new and making $50k or something and have never considered what retirement is (TDF of 2065 is now in our plan!!! Yikes for the newbies.)

[Miss Piggy]

I have convinced three people in my life to contribute or max out their 401(k)s when they were otherwise not contributing at all. One retired early. (YAY!) One became a meth addict and cashed it all out years ago. And the third just informed me she cashed hers out to pay off credit cards.

One out of three ain't bad, I guess???

[Fomerly known as something]

From a co-worker this morning:  "It's not like any of us can contribute the max to our TSPs with what they pay us."  I'm just biting my tongue because I'm doing it, plus an IRA and HSA.  You'd think that they would have figured it out by now because I always know how much per paycheck it takes to get there.

Clearly it’s not my department where several of us lecture new people on the joys of maxing out.  Shout out to the GS 9 soon to be 11 who is doing so right now, per Erin groceries are expensive.

I have encouraged a few newer engineers "you don't have to max it this year, but start working on a plan to get there in the next three." Two of them really had never considered anything except whatever the auto-enroll percentage is, and did not even know there was a max. Hopefully they at least worked to get some education on the subject.

I get not being "able" to max it when you are new and making $50k or something and have never considered what retirement is (TDF of 2065 is now in our plan!!! Yikes for the newbies.)

I tell them add a percent every pay raise.  After you get to 10% add $20 or $50.  Which in the early years of the GS scale end up being 2* a year.

[SwordGuy]

I tell them add a percent every pay raise.  After you get to 10% add $20 or $50.  Which in the early years of the GS scale end up being 2* a year.

I tell people to add 90% of their raise to investments for at least the first 5 years after that raise.  That way, they get more in their pocket to spend, they are maximizing time their investments work for them, and they may discover they didn't need the other 90% to live on and have a good life.

[valsecito]

What about some derivative of last month's amount invested? That is easy to track and motivates savings and earnings growth.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

I have convinced three people in my life to contribute or max out their 401(k)s when they were otherwise not contributing at all. One retired early. (YAY!) One became a meth addict and cashed it all out years ago. And the third just informed me she cashed hers out to pay off credit cards.

One out of three ain't bad, I guess???

It's infinitely better than zero.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't hold its head under for too long without having a conversation about glue.

[snic]

I have convinced three people in my life to contribute or max out their 401(k)s when they were otherwise not contributing at all. One retired early. (YAY!) One became a meth addict and cashed it all out years ago. And the third just informed me she cashed hers out to pay off credit cards.

One out of three ain't bad, I guess???

I convinced a friend's son who just started his first job after getting a PhD to max out his 401k. All I had to do is show him a compounding curve. I guess he deserved that PhD!

[Miss Piggy]

I have convinced three people in my life to contribute or max out their 401(k)s when they were otherwise not contributing at all. One retired early. (YAY!) One became a meth addict and cashed it all out years ago. And the third just informed me she cashed hers out to pay off credit cards.

One out of three ain't bad, I guess???

I convinced a friend's son who just started his first job after getting a PhD to max out his 401k. All I had to do is show him a compounding curve. I guess he deserved that PhD!

This man will love you in 20 years! Good job, @snic

[By the River]

I have convinced three people in my life to contribute or max out their 401(k)s when they were otherwise not contributing at all. One retired early. (YAY!) One became a meth addict and cashed it all out years ago. And the third just informed me she cashed hers out to pay off credit cards.

One out of three ain't bad, I guess???

I convinced a friend's son who just started his first job after getting a PhD to max out his 401k. All I had to do is show him a compounding curve. I guess he deserved that PhD!

My son started a new job at the beginning of the year but cannot join the 401K for a couple of months.  He asked me for input on the fund selections when he's in town next month.  Looks like I'll print out a compounding curve before he comes home.