Overheard at Work 2

[Monerexia]

My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

Like I've said for years, you can't cure stupid, but you sure as hell can profit off it.

My MPP: I am too moral to do that.

MPP? Much easier to give them what they want than try to save someone who doesn't want to be saved.

[OtherJen]

I was taking a car to the airport after a meeting and I got to talking with the driver. Turns out he drove a 2002 Buick for 10 years until it was stolen. He had bought it from his aunt for $1000.

Then he goes on to say: "I've been leasing ever since. I like having a new car every couple of years without having to pay for it."

Um

Maybe he expenses the lease so it's doesn't seem like his own money?

That car was stolen.

He lives in the Detroit area so maybe that's why it was stolen?

As for expensing it.. Don't know. Before he got this job driving business customers back in April, he said he was driving for Uber for 3 months. He currently has a Chevy Cruz and he says that every day he would fill $20 worth of gas and then worked Uber 8 to 10 hours, 7 days a week. He said he'd make $150/day but it was not steady and no health benefits. He says that that would allow him to pay rent and his bills but just barely.

No, we don't all drive stolen cars here.

He's probably like my parents and in-laws who have convinced themselves that it's better to have a car subscription (essentially) and not worry about upkeep costs, without ever stopping to consider whether they would come out ahead if they bought a car and held onto it for a decade.

[The_Big_H]

My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

Like I've said for years, you can't cure stupid, but you sure as hell can profit off it.

My MPP: I am too moral to do that.

Aren't we all profiting off stupidity though?  If you own an S&P500 fund you surely are.  Tobacco companies, car companies (and their financing divisions), banks (and their CC divisions), junk food manufacturers, overpriced electric gizmo makers...

[Monerexia]

My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

Like I've said for years, you can't cure stupid, but you sure as hell can profit off it.

My MPP: I am too moral to do that.

Aren't we all profiting off stupidity though?  If you own an S&P500 fund you surely are.  Tobacco companies, car companies (and their financing divisions), banks (and their CC divisions), junk food manufacturers, overpriced electric gizmo makers...

Yep. I celebrate every huge-truck, dollar-a-block-in-fuel-costs hillbilly I see.

[Imma]

My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

Like I've said for years, you can't cure stupid, but you sure as hell can profit off it.

My MPP: I am too moral to do that.

Aren't we all profiting off stupidity though?  If you own an S&P500 fund you surely are.  Tobacco companies, car companies (and their financing divisions), banks (and their CC divisions), junk food manufacturers, overpriced electric gizmo makers...

I only own sustainable funds now. I really don't want to make money off tobacco or other controversial goods. Many funds are sustainable these days.

[dragoncar]

My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

Like I've said for years, you can't cure stupid, but you sure as hell can profit off it.

My MPP: I am too moral to do that.

Aren't we all profiting off stupidity though?  If you own an S&P500 fund you surely are.  Tobacco companies, car companies (and their financing divisions), banks (and their CC divisions), junk food manufacturers, overpriced electric gizmo makers...

I only own sustainable funds now. I really don't want to make money off tobacco or other controversial goods. Many funds are sustainable these days.

Sustainability of a company doesn’t really address whether profits are made from the stupidity of others.  A quick scan of ESG funds shows holdings like Pepsi, Visa, Disney.  It’s pretty much impossible to invest in an index fund and not take advantage of stupid people.  IMO it’s gotta be good enough not to specifically target people

[LennStar]

Sustainability of a company doesn’t really address whether profits are made from the stupidity of others.  A quick scan of ESG funds shows holdings like Pepsi, Visa, Disney.  It’s pretty much impossible to invest in an index fund and not take advantage of stupid people.  IMO it’s gotta be good enough not to specifically target people

It is pretty much impossible to have any fond that is not using unethical companies (make money from powerless people or damaging them) or those that make money from stupid people.

That is lao in part because of how big and diverse today's megacorps are. Company X is very responsible. But they also hold 14% of a weapon factory?

Or do you have Nestlè in there? The company that steals the water from under villages in 3rd world countries (or sometimes in 1st world too) to sell them bottled water when their wells no longer work?

[ms]

No, we don't all drive stolen cars here.

I was not implying that at all.

[okcisok]

Sorry to add to the off-topic foam, but I just visited a Buc-ee's for the first time *yesterday*. I was absolutely floored. They had WEDDING merchandise, y'all. Plus the aformentioned deer corn, etc. You could decorate your living room, host a barbecue, plan a wedding, buy all your Christmas presents, plus fill up with gas. It was surreal.
One of us did spend $30 on branded merchandise, but it was the 12yo spending his allowance money :) I used the ultra-clean and spacious restrooms. There was hand sanitizer IN the stalls!

[Fomerly known as something]

Sustainability of a company doesn’t really address whether profits are made from the stupidity of others.  A quick scan of ESG funds shows holdings like Pepsi, Visa, Disney.  It’s pretty much impossible to invest in an index fund and not take advantage of stupid people.  IMO it’s gotta be good enough not to specifically target people

It is pretty much impossible to have any fond that is not using unethical companies (make money from powerless people or damaging them) or those that make money from stupid people.

That is lao in part because of how big and diverse today's megacorps are. Company X is very responsible. But they also hold 14% of a weapon factory?

Or do you have Nestlè in there? The company that steals the water from under villages in 3rd world countries (or sometimes in 1st world too) to sell them bottled water when their wells no longer work?

Totally do in the first world.  It's a big deal here in MI.

[talltexan]

My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

There is a certain TX gas station with a cult following.  I actually have a branded T-shirt from there (thrifted!) and a coozie.  Its so much more than just a gas station :)

My first thought when I read this was that it had to be Bucc-ee's

[DadJokes]

This isn't the typical anti-mustachian overheard at work conversation.

I was talking with a co-worker who started on the same day I did ~2 years ago as a fresh college graduate. Between his rent, student loan payments, car loan (6 year loan signed 1 year ago), and car insurance ($160/month), he has zero wiggle room in his spending. "Zero wiggle room" are his words, not mine. I remember a conversation a few months ago when he mentioned that he had been using food delivery daily.

We hopefully talked him into at least shopping his car insurance around, but he's 24 with a wreck on his record, so there may not be as much savings there as I'm hoping.

I offered to sit down with him and go over his whole budget to see if I can find some low-hanging fruit. I kind of hope that he doesn't take me up on the offer, as things I consider unnecessary luxuries might be deal breakers for him. But hopefully he'll take a few steps in the right direction after the conversation.

[charis]

PTF

[OtherJen]

This isn't the typical anti-mustachian overheard at work conversation.

I was talking with a co-worker who started on the same day I did ~2 years ago as a fresh college graduate. Between his rent, student loan payments, car loan (6 year loan signed 1 year ago), and car insurance ($160/month), he has zero wiggle room in his spending. "Zero wiggle room" are his words, not mine. I remember a conversation a few months ago when he mentioned that he had been using food delivery daily.

We hopefully talked him into at least shopping his car insurance around, but he's 24 with a wreck on his record, so there may not be as much savings there as I'm hoping.

I offered to sit down with him and go over his whole budget to see if I can find some low-hanging fruit. I kind of hope that he doesn't take me up on the offer, as things I consider unnecessary luxuries might be deal breakers for him. But hopefully he'll take a few steps in the right direction after the conversation.

I did that once for a friend. He couldn't figure out how he was so behind, and from his income and written budget, neither could I. Then he gave me a spreadsheet of his spending.

Me: "Um, you spent several thousand dollars on vacations over the summer, several hundred on kids' enrichment (for older teens who already earned their own spending money), another several thousand on furniture for your house, and none of it was in the written budget."
Him: "...oh."

We never discussed it again. Hopefully it made a difference.

[Imma]

Sustainability of a company doesn’t really address whether profits are made from the stupidity of others.  A quick scan of ESG funds shows holdings like Pepsi, Visa, Disney.  It’s pretty much impossible to invest in an index fund and not take advantage of stupid people.  IMO it’s gotta be good enough not to specifically target people

It is pretty much impossible to have any fond that is not using unethical companies (make money from powerless people or damaging them) or those that make money from stupid people.

That is lao in part because of how big and diverse today's megacorps are. Company X is very responsible. But they also hold 14% of a weapon factory?

Or do you have Nestlè in there? The company that steals the water from under villages in 3rd world countries (or sometimes in 1st world too) to sell them bottled water when their wells no longer work?

Totally do in the first world.  It's a big deal here in MI.

Obviously there's no such thing as 100% sustainable in a capitalist world. But the funds I've invested in have set their own clear criteria of what they will and will not invest in. That means they have excluded, for example, any companies that have to do with tobacco, and certain types of weapons like landmines and bioweapons. They also exclude some companies that are extremely polluting. My impression is that their research is thorough. All in all they exclude roughly 10%. That's not enough but it's a good start. For example, they exclude 15% of the companies in the MSCI World index which represents 10% of the value.

[Kris]

This isn't the typical anti-mustachian overheard at work conversation.

I was talking with a co-worker who started on the same day I did ~2 years ago as a fresh college graduate. Between his rent, student loan payments, car loan (6 year loan signed 1 year ago), and car insurance ($160/month), he has zero wiggle room in his spending. "Zero wiggle room" are his words, not mine. I remember a conversation a few months ago when he mentioned that he had been using food delivery daily.

We hopefully talked him into at least shopping his car insurance around, but he's 24 with a wreck on his record, so there may not be as much savings there as I'm hoping.

I offered to sit down with him and go over his whole budget to see if I can find some low-hanging fruit. I kind of hope that he doesn't take me up on the offer, as things I consider unnecessary luxuries might be deal breakers for him. But hopefully he'll take a few steps in the right direction after the conversation.

I did that once for a friend. He couldn't figure out how he was so behind, and from his income and written budget, neither could I. Then he gave me a spreadsheet of his spending.

Me: "Um, you spent several thousand dollars on vacations over the summer, several hundred on kids' enrichment (for older teens who already earned their own spending money), another several thousand on furniture for your house, and none of it was in the written budget."
Him: "...oh."

We never discussed it again. Hopefully it made a difference.

God. This is not complicated math. It makes me so sad that people struggle so much with something so clear and evident.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Sorry to add to the off-topic foam, but I just visited a Buc-ee's for the first time *yesterday*. I was absolutely floored. They had WEDDING merchandise, y'all. Plus the aformentioned deer corn, etc. You could decorate your living room, host a barbecue, plan a wedding, buy all your Christmas presents, plus fill up with gas. It was surreal.
One of us did spend $30 on branded merchandise, but it was the 12yo spending his allowance money :) I used the ultra-clean and spacious restrooms. There was hand sanitizer IN the stalls!

I spent Giftmas in a 4-star hotel in San Antonio (on points-- no facepunch). There was a magazine rack and a telephone in the bathroom, next to the toilet.

[dragoncar]

Sorry to add to the off-topic foam, but I just visited a Buc-ee's for the first time *yesterday*. I was absolutely floored. They had WEDDING merchandise, y'all. Plus the aformentioned deer corn, etc. You could decorate your living room, host a barbecue, plan a wedding, buy all your Christmas presents, plus fill up with gas. It was surreal.
One of us did spend $30 on branded merchandise, but it was the 12yo spending his allowance money :) I used the ultra-clean and spacious restrooms. There was hand sanitizer IN the stalls!

I spent Giftmas in a 4-star hotel in San Antonio (on points-- no facepunch). There was a magazine rack and a telephone in the bathroom, next to the toilet.

Now I’ve stayed in my fair share of facepunch-worthy hotels, but don’t forget that points are fungible.  If you use them all up on fancy rooms, you don’t have any left over to offset other real-life spending.  Thus, points aren’t a free pass to overspend (although sometimes you can get really good deals using points)

[ixtap]

Sorry to add to the off-topic foam, but I just visited a Buc-ee's for the first time *yesterday*. I was absolutely floored. They had WEDDING merchandise, y'all. Plus the aformentioned deer corn, etc. You could decorate your living room, host a barbecue, plan a wedding, buy all your Christmas presents, plus fill up with gas. It was surreal.
One of us did spend $30 on branded merchandise, but it was the 12yo spending his allowance money :) I used the ultra-clean and spacious restrooms. There was hand sanitizer IN the stalls!

I spent Giftmas in a 4-star hotel in San Antonio (on points-- no facepunch). There was a magazine rack and a telephone in the bathroom, next to the toilet.

Kind of the opposite of hand sanitizer in the stalls...

[Playing with Fire UK]

No, we don't all drive stolen cars here.

I was not implying that at all.

Neither was I, apologies.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Sorry to add to the off-topic foam, but I just visited a Buc-ee's for the first time *yesterday*. I was absolutely floored. They had WEDDING merchandise, y'all. Plus the aformentioned deer corn, etc. You could decorate your living room, host a barbecue, plan a wedding, buy all your Christmas presents, plus fill up with gas. It was surreal.
One of us did spend $30 on branded merchandise, but it was the 12yo spending his allowance money :) I used the ultra-clean and spacious restrooms. There was hand sanitizer IN the stalls!

I spent Giftmas in a 4-star hotel in San Antonio (on points-- no facepunch). There was a magazine rack and a telephone in the bathroom, next to the toilet.

Kind of the opposite of hand sanitizer in the stalls...

Yeah, you don't want to touch that. As much as I employ scatological humor I draw the line at handling someone else's E. coli.

[ysette9]

A colleague asked for some advice on his ergonomic situation at his desk. I shared a few things I learned, including how I saw that when he worked over his laptop he had hunched shoulders that wasn't the best for his back or arms. I pointed out how my setup has monitors at the right height for me to sit up straight and how the keyboard is at a good height for neutral arms, blah blah blah.

Anyway, he decided that he needed an external monitor also so he could have better posture at his desk. But instead of the massive monitors we can get for free from the company, he decided to order himself a $1200 Apple display to use at work. And today he let us know that while he was shopping he decided to go ahead and replace his daughter's computer, so she is getting a $2k surprise showing up today.

I told him that I would be happy to help him with the obvious problem he had of too much money, and we all had a good laugh.

[J.R. Ewing]

I have a coworker who patted himself on the back for cooking at home the other night.  Their default is to order from some hip restaurant through Grubhub.  Apparently they do this 4-5 times a week.  The other nights, they eat out.  This individual also eats at restaurants daily for lunch.

Now I no nothing about what his wife's lunch habits are, or what they do on the weekend for breakfast or lunch.  But my back of the envelope numbers show they're spending $19,000 a year eating out even without the other unknowns added in.  That's unbelievable.

Now he is a high earner with a salary well over 100,000, and his wife earns a decent salary too.  Still they're spending 10% of their gross on eating out.  He's a muscular 6'3" and plays sports regularly.  Otherwise, the calories would have caught up with him. 

[BigIslandGuy]

My dept director told me today he pulled his entire 401k into cash/bonds in October, and moved all of his other investments into cash yesterday...

Well, ackshuly... I agree with this move. Stock market is a freaking tinder box right now. Its about to burn down like Australia. Bad joke, but you get the visual.

[BigIslandGuy]

I work for a very large sub-prime auto lender, and some of the stories I hear and see about our customers are outrageous. Lots of people threaten to shoot the repo agent, dontchaknow. I'll save them for another day. But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of  the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.

In a "town hall" type meeting with our CTO (a meeting of almost all 6-figure tech type earners) a guy publicly asked how much he could borrow under the plan, in effect advertising to the entire I.T. department) that he is broke and couldn't afford even a single week of income loss. SMH. 

[BigIslandGuy]

My dept director told me today he pulled his entire 401k into cash/bonds in October, and moved all of his other investments into cash yesterday...

He got lucky in timing the top, let's see if he can call the bottom.

Yep, havent you heard?... the Top Is In!  ;) 

[bluebelle]

I work for a very large sub-prime auto lender, and some of the stories I hear and see about our customers are outrageous. Lots of people threaten to shoot the repo agent, dontchaknow. I'll save them for another day. But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of  the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.

In a "town hall" type meeting with our CTO (a meeting of almost all 6-figure tech type earners) a guy publicly asked how much he could borrow under the plan, in effect advertising to the entire I.T. department) that he is broke and couldn't afford even a single week of income loss. SMH.

is it an interest free loan for 4 months?   I want to believe that the guy just wanted to use someone else's money for 4 months if it's interest free....maybe a little payback for the company using employee money for an extra week, which is what they're doing.   Holding payroll for an extra week for the entire employee base....having the employees give the company an interest free loan for a week.  (but I'm cynical)

[Trevor Reznik]

My dept director told me today he pulled his entire 401k into cash/bonds in October, and moved all of his other investments into cash yesterday...

Well, ackshuly... I agree with this move. Stock market is a freaking tinder box right now. Its about to burn down like Australia. Bad joke, but you get the visual.

Plenty would have said the same 12 months ago and missed out on what ~25% gains since then?  Even the experts can't predict what will happen next.

[moof]

My dept director told me today he pulled his entire 401k into cash/bonds in October, and moved all of his other investments into cash yesterday...

Well, ackshuly... I agree with this move. Stock market is a freaking tinder box right now. Its about to burn down like Australia. Bad joke, but you get the visual.

Plenty would have said the same 12 months ago and missed out on what ~25% gains since then?  Even the experts can't predict what will happen next.

It is worth reminding one's self that the most successful groups of investors are the ones who lost their password, or who died.

[Goldielocks]

I have a coworker who patted himself on the back for cooking at home the other night.  Their default is to order from some hip restaurant through Grubhub.  Apparently they do this 4-5 times a week.  The other nights, they eat out.  This individual also eats at restaurants daily for lunch.

Now I no nothing about what his wife's lunch habits are, or what they do on the weekend for breakfast or lunch.  But my back of the envelope numbers show they're spending $19,000 a year eating out even without the other unknowns added in.  That's unbelievable.

Now he is a high earner with a salary well over 100,000, and his wife earns a decent salary too.  Still they're spending 10% of their gross on eating out.  He's a muscular 6'3" and plays sports regularly.  Otherwise, the calories would have caught up with him.

My friends (a couple) who do this have one great excuse - they earn a lot of money and don't have kids.

FWIW,  he travels a lot and is a bit fastidious and does cook a bit for himself (soup?) when alone.  She grew up with parents that owned a restaurant and no one cooked at home.. she helped serve there but never learned how to cook growing up or even saw someone doing it at home.  Neither are big eaters - one meal a day plus leftovers.

[merula]

I work for a very large sub-prime auto lender, and some of the stories I hear and see about our customers are outrageous. Lots of people threaten to shoot the repo agent, dontchaknow. I'll save them for another day. But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of  the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.

In a "town hall" type meeting with our CTO (a meeting of almost all 6-figure tech type earners) a guy publicly asked how much he could borrow under the plan, in effect advertising to the entire I.T. department) that he is broke and couldn't afford even a single week of income loss. SMH.

is it an interest free loan for 4 months?   I want to believe that the guy just wanted to use someone else's money for 4 months if it's interest free....maybe a little payback for the company using employee money for an extra week, which is what they're doing.   Holding payroll for an extra week for the entire employee base....having the employees give the company an interest free loan for a week.  (but I'm cynical)

I did this when my company went from semimonthly to biweekly pay periods. It was an interest-free loan you could get the first paycheck of January, and then they'd take payments out of your paycheck for the rest of the year.

I wasn't hurting for money at all, even though I hadn't yet found mustachianism, but an interest-free loan is an interest-free loan. I used it as an extra student loan payment.

[bluebelle]

I work for a very large sub-prime auto lender, and some of the stories I hear and see about our customers are outrageous. Lots of people threaten to shoot the repo agent, dontchaknow. I'll save them for another day. But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of  the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.

In a "town hall" type meeting with our CTO (a meeting of almost all 6-figure tech type earners) a guy publicly asked how much he could borrow under the plan, in effect advertising to the entire I.T. department) that he is broke and couldn't afford even a single week of income loss. SMH.

is it an interest free loan for 4 months?   I want to believe that the guy just wanted to use someone else's money for 4 months if it's interest free....maybe a little payback for the company using employee money for an extra week, which is what they're doing.   Holding payroll for an extra week for the entire employee base....having the employees give the company an interest free loan for a week.  (but I'm cynical)

I did this when my company went from semimonthly to biweekly pay periods. It was an interest-free loan you could get the first paycheck of January, and then they'd take payments out of your paycheck for the rest of the year.

I wasn't hurting for money at all, even though I hadn't yet found mustachianism, but an interest-free loan is an interest-free loan. I used it as an extra student loan payment.

Congrats - way to game the system....

[TomTX]

My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

There is a certain TX gas station with a cult following.  I actually have a branded T-shirt from there (thrifted!) and a coozie.  Its so much more than just a gas station :)

What, are we not allowed to say Buc-ee's out loud?

People really do love that place. I'm from Texas and had never heard of it until a few years ago. We were planning a road trip back to visit family, and one of my wife's coworkers insisted that we go to one. It was quite the experience. However, I'd still rather get some Allsup's fried burritos than anything Buc-ee's had to offer.

I don't think there's too much territory overlap between them - Allsup's tends to be more West and small town, Buc-ee's tends to be right on the interstate (a few mini-Buc-ee's conversions excepted)

That said, I guess I need to try the fried burritos next time at Allsup's. When traveling for work and getting food paid for by my employer, of course.

[Montecarlo]

Sustainability of a company doesn’t really address whether profits are made from the stupidity of others.  A quick scan of ESG funds shows holdings like Pepsi, Visa, Disney.  It’s pretty much impossible to invest in an index fund and not take advantage of stupid people.  IMO it’s gotta be good enough not to specifically target people

It is pretty much impossible to have any fond that is not using unethical companies (make money from powerless people or damaging them) or those that make money from stupid people.

That is lao in part because of how big and diverse today's megacorps are. Company X is very responsible. But they also hold 14% of a weapon factory?

Or do you have Nestlè in there? The company that steals the water from under villages in 3rd world countries (or sometimes in 1st world too) to sell them bottled water when their wells no longer work?

Totally do in the first world.  It's a big deal here in MI.

Obviously there's no such thing as 100% sustainable in a capitalist world. But the funds I've invested in have set their own clear criteria of what they will and will not invest in. That means they have excluded, for example, any companies that have to do with tobacco, and certain types of weapons like landmines and bioweapons. They also exclude some companies that are extremely polluting. My impression is that their research is thorough. All in all they exclude roughly 10%. That's not enough but it's a good start. For example, they exclude 15% of the companies in the MSCI World index which represents 10% of the value.

I enjoy a nice evening at a hookah bar smoking and sipping beer.  I don’t see what’s immoral about tobacco companies profiting off of that.  Or why alcohol seems to get a free pass when it causes crazy health problems as well.

[blue_green_sparks]

Not Overheard at Work because I am FIRED, but I do play in local rock bands. Local music pays so little that it would be difficult to live off of it, but some do manage. One band member was telling me the story of a guitarist who was playing music for a living but unfortunately had his double-wide burn down one night while he was playing in a club. He was homeless with just a guitar to his name. Several local musicians "banded" together and put on a concert to raise money to get the musician back on his feet. Apparently they raised about $1K, not bad. Unfortunately he didn't get the point and used the money to buy a second guitar.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Not Overheard at Work because I am FIRED, but I do play in local rock bands. Local music pays so little that it would be difficult to live off of it, but some do manage. One band member was telling me the story of a guitarist who was playing music for a living but unfortunately had his double-wide burn down one night while he was playing in a club. He was homeless with just a guitar to his name. Several local musicians "banded" together and put on a concert to raise money to get the musician back on his feet. Apparently they raised about $1K, not bad. Unfortunately he didn't get the point and used the money to buy a second guitar.

Second guitar will definitely be useful when he's living under the local bridge.

[Monerexia]

Not Overheard at Work because I am FIRED, but I do play in local rock bands. Local music pays so little that it would be difficult to live off of it, but some do manage. One band member was telling me the story of a guitarist who was playing music for a living but unfortunately had his double-wide burn down one night while he was playing in a club. He was homeless with just a guitar to his name. Several local musicians "banded" together and put on a concert to raise money to get the musician back on his feet. Apparently they raised about $1K, not bad. Unfortunately he didn't get the point and used the money to buy a second guitar.

Second guitar will definitely be useful when he's living under the local bridge.

One wrist injury away from oh f***.

[BigIslandGuy]

.. a coworker is going to Las Vegas to celebrate her daughter's 21st birthday... but also doesnt have enough money in checking account to buy "diet food"... meaning their desired healthy groceries. Have to resort to buying a few staples until next payday. But can afford Las Vegas trip so a 21 year old can get legally hammered?? 

[talltexan]

I work for a very large sub-prime auto lender, and some of the stories I hear and see about our customers are outrageous. Lots of people threaten to shoot the repo agent, dontchaknow. I'll save them for another day. But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of  the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.

In a "town hall" type meeting with our CTO (a meeting of almost all 6-figure tech type earners) a guy publicly asked how much he could borrow under the plan, in effect advertising to the entire I.T. department) that he is broke and couldn't afford even a single week of income loss. SMH.

is it an interest free loan for 4 months?   I want to believe that the guy just wanted to use someone else's money for 4 months if it's interest free....maybe a little payback for the company using employee money for an extra week, which is what they're doing.   Holding payroll for an extra week for the entire employee base....having the employees give the company an interest free loan for a week.  (but I'm cynical)

My wife works for General Electric, and they pulled this stunt in March 2017. You're welcome to look at their share price then and compare it to today's. This is the kind of thing a company does when it's starved for cash.

[Kazyan]

Coworker owns 2 houses (one of which is worth >$300k) and four vehicles. Mentioned that he owns five televisions, and got the fifth one for "free"--actually $150 when I asked him to clarify, compared to a normal price of $800.

Complains that he's broke. Oi. I get that cash flow problems are a thing, but oi.

[markbike528CBX]

I work for a very large sub-prime auto lender, and some of the stories I hear and see about our customers are outrageous. Lots of people threaten to shoot the repo agent, dontchaknow. I'll save them for another day. But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of  the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.

In a "town hall" type meeting with our CTO (a meeting of almost all 6-figure tech type earners) a guy publicly asked how much he could borrow under the plan, in effect advertising to the entire I.T. department) that he is broke and couldn't afford even a single week of income loss. SMH.

is it an interest free loan for 4 months?   I want to believe that the guy just wanted to use someone else's money for 4 months if it's interest free....maybe a little payback for the company using employee money for an extra week, which is what they're doing.   Holding payroll for an extra week for the entire employee base....having the employees give the company an interest free loan for a week.  (but I'm cynical)

My wife works for General Electric, and they pulled this stunt in March 2017. You're welcome to look at their share price then and compare it to today's. This is the kind of thing a company does when it's starved for cash.

As I recall 2017 is when Warren Buffett finished exiting his big GE position of 2009. Coincidence?

[RobertFromTX]

We just had a company-wide conference call for people signed up for HSA accounts because we're switching providers. The company has over 100 employees and only 5 people were invited to the conference call! That means only ~5% of my company is utilizing HSA accounts.

[prudent_one]

But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of  the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.

Heh, this brought back memories. Where I worked they did that payroll change in the mid-1970s.  We got a letter explaining the financial mumbo-jumbo and it said upon separation, you get that held-back week of pay. Somewhere around 2009 a co-worker retired. He had held onto that letter. The HR/payroll people had changed many times over, so he showed them the letter to make sure his held-back week was paid out in his last check. Apparently, by that time it had been so long since anyone left who had been there in 1976 the HR/payroll people were flummoxed. They didn't think the guy had forged the letter but nobody in authority had ever seen one or heard of it.

HR hinted that they weren't going to pay it without coming right out and saying so, suggesting that the obligation belonged to the former parent company, not the current owners. He said they could explain it to the news reporter who would be showing up to ask about it, the HR guy said to hold on as they were still researching, and they did pay it in his last check - a week's pay at his current rate.

[dragoncar]

But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of  the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.

Heh, this brought back memories. Where I worked they did that payroll change in the mid-1970s.  We got a letter explaining the financial mumbo-jumbo and it said upon separation, you get that held-back week of pay. Somewhere around 2009 a co-worker retired. He had held onto that letter. The HR/payroll people had changed many times over, so he showed them the letter to make sure his held-back week was paid out in his last check. Apparently, by that time it had been so long since anyone left who had been there in 1976 the HR/payroll people were flummoxed. They didn't think the guy had forged the letter but nobody in authority had ever seen one or heard of it.

HR hinted that they weren't going to pay it without coming right out and saying so, suggesting that the obligation belonged to the former parent company, not the current owners. He said they could explain it to the news reporter who would be showing up to ask about it, the HR guy said to hold on as they were still researching, and they did pay it in his last check - a week's pay at his current rate.

Strange because they are either Doing payroll in arrears or not.  Seems like they switched to arrears and then at some point switched BACK to current pay without making up the difference?

I’ve always gotten paid in arrears and each pay stub clearly states the work days that the paycheck is supposed to cover
 

[Imma]

Sustainability of a company doesn’t really address whether profits are made from the stupidity of others.  A quick scan of ESG funds shows holdings like Pepsi, Visa, Disney.  It’s pretty much impossible to invest in an index fund and not take advantage of stupid people.  IMO it’s gotta be good enough not to specifically target people

It is pretty much impossible to have any fond that is not using unethical companies (make money from powerless people or damaging them) or those that make money from stupid people.

That is lao in part because of how big and diverse today's megacorps are. Company X is very responsible. But they also hold 14% of a weapon factory?

Or do you have Nestlè in there? The company that steals the water from under villages in 3rd world countries (or sometimes in 1st world too) to sell them bottled water when their wells no longer work?

Totally do in the first world.  It's a big deal here in MI.

Obviously there's no such thing as 100% sustainable in a capitalist world. But the funds I've invested in have set their own clear criteria of what they will and will not invest in. That means they have excluded, for example, any companies that have to do with tobacco, and certain types of weapons like landmines and bioweapons. They also exclude some companies that are extremely polluting. My impression is that their research is thorough. All in all they exclude roughly 10%. That's not enough but it's a good start. For example, they exclude 15% of the companies in the MSCI World index which represents 10% of the value.

I enjoy a nice evening at a hookah bar smoking and sipping beer.  I don’t see what’s immoral about tobacco companies profiting off of that.  Or why alcohol seems to get a free pass when it causes crazy health problems as well.

I would prefer not to invest in alcohol either if I had the choice, but I haven't found a sober fund yet.

Alcohol (and fastfood companies, etc etc) are different than tobacco companies though. While consuming alcohol is not healthy, most users are not addicted to it. Only a minority of the users suffer from addiction. It's an unfortunate side effect. Tobacco on the other hand is addictive by design. Almost all users are hooked after using it for a few times (I don't know the exact numbers but I've seen figures suggesting teenagers often get addicted after trying a cigarette less than 5-10 times)  The tobacco industry is actually doing research to find out how to increase the addictiveness of their products. In my book that's pretty evil.

Also, from a danger-to-others perspective, while of course a person with an alcohol addiction is a huge burden to their environment, tobacco users literally pollute other people's air with toxic fumes. I believe that everyone has the theoretical right to inhale toxic fumes (although freedom of choice is difficult with addiction) but you also poison other people. This is a sensitive topic for me, because I suffer from an auto immune disease, have suffered from it since I was a teenager. When I asked my doctor how I could possibly suddenly get this disease, she replied 'are your parents smokers?' Exposure to second hand smoke is one of the biggest risk factors for my illness, after from first hand smoke (I'm a never smoker) .

[trashtalk]

But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of  the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.

Heh, this brought back memories. Where I worked they did that payroll change in the mid-1970s.  We got a letter explaining the financial mumbo-jumbo and it said upon separation, you get that held-back week of pay. Somewhere around 2009 a co-worker retired. He had held onto that letter. The HR/payroll people had changed many times over, so he showed them the letter to make sure his held-back week was paid out in his last check. Apparently, by that time it had been so long since anyone left who had been there in 1976 the HR/payroll people were flummoxed. They didn't think the guy had forged the letter but nobody in authority had ever seen one or heard of it.

HR hinted that they weren't going to pay it without coming right out and saying so, suggesting that the obligation belonged to the former parent company, not the current owners. He said they could explain it to the news reporter who would be showing up to ask about it, the HR guy said to hold on as they were still researching, and they did pay it in his last check - a week's pay at his current rate.

This guy is my hero.

[sherr]

We just had a company-wide conference call for people signed up for HSA accounts because we're switching providers. The company has over 100 employees and only 5 people were invited to the conference call! That means only ~5% of my company is utilizing HSA accounts.

To be fair you cannot contribute to an HSA unless you have a High Deductible plan, and depending on the plans your company offers that may legitimately not be the best choice for a lot of people. 5% does sound low though. :(

[merula]

To be fair you cannot contribute to an HSA unless you have a High Deductible plan, and depending on the plans your company offers that may legitimately not be the best choice for a lot of people. 5% does sound low though. :(

Yes, exactly. At my company, the premiums for a HDHP with a $1,400 deductible and 20% coinsurance on all costs after the deductible is only  15% less than a regular plan with a $700 deductible and 0-10% coinsurance (depending on the specific service). Actual premiums vary by family size and salary, but for employee-only coverage for someone earning a median salary for my company, the tipping point is around $1,000 of medical costs per year. Which is one chronic condition or injury per year.

[talltexan]

I work for a very large sub-prime auto lender, and some of the stories I hear and see about our customers are outrageous. Lots of people threaten to shoot the repo agent, dontchaknow. I'll save them for another day. But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of  the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.

In a "town hall" type meeting with our CTO (a meeting of almost all 6-figure tech type earners) a guy publicly asked how much he could borrow under the plan, in effect advertising to the entire I.T. department) that he is broke and couldn't afford even a single week of income loss. SMH.

is it an interest free loan for 4 months?   I want to believe that the guy just wanted to use someone else's money for 4 months if it's interest free....maybe a little payback for the company using employee money for an extra week, which is what they're doing.   Holding payroll for an extra week for the entire employee base....having the employees give the company an interest free loan for a week.  (but I'm cynical)

My wife works for General Electric, and they pulled this stunt in March 2017. You're welcome to look at their share price then and compare it to today's. This is the kind of thing a company does when it's starved for cash.

As I recall 2017 is when Warren Buffett finished exiting his big GE position of 2009. Coincidence?

My wife's 401K statement came in the mail yesterday, and the GE stock portion actually had a nice return for 2019q4 (about 5% for the quarter, which works out to something like 22% annualized). That portion represents about 5% of our net worth, which is still far too high, but there are frictions that keep us from decreasing it rapidly.

[DaMa]

To be fair you cannot contribute to an HSA unless you have a High Deductible plan, and depending on the plans your company offers that may legitimately not be the best choice for a lot of people. 5% does sound low though. :(

Yes, exactly. At my company, the premiums for a HDHP with a $1,400 deductible and 20% coinsurance on all costs after the deductible is only  15% less than a regular plan with a $700 deductible and 0-10% coinsurance (depending on the specific service). Actual premiums vary by family size and salary, but for employee-only coverage for someone earning a median salary for my company, the tipping point is around $1,000 of medical costs per year. Which is one chronic condition or injury per year.

It has been my experience that many people think an HSA is use it or lose it, like an FSA, and most people cannot do the math to see that the HDHP is a better option.