Overheard at Work 2

[SheWhoWalksAtLunch]

The US has plenty of places that are prohibited from full time occupation, as well. This is especially true in rural vacation areas (my family has such a cabin), but another common prohibition is living on your boat in protected waters.

I have never heard of such a thing in the US. The rural cabins I'm familiar with would be inhospitable during the winter, but I'm not sure who would prevent you from staying on your own property? How is such a thing enforced?

Maybe it's more of a "you're on your own, stay at your own risk" sort of policy. Like, if you have a remote cabin in unincorporated territory in the northern US, you can't reasonably expect timely emergency services during winter.

Former Northern US resident with emergency services experience.  Seasonal housing in our area received NO emergency services AT ALL during the winters.  The roads in weren't plowed.  I watched more than one building burn from a distance because we couldn't get the trucks to the scene.  Even when the resident plowed their road themselves or the snow had melted, we couldn't always access the properties because the roads couldn't handle the weight of the vehicles. 

Some of the more remote properties were "you're on your own, stay at your own risk" during the summers as well, but others, in more populated areas where residents might be tempted to stay out of season had road access blocked by the town (cement barriers) installed each fall to restrict off season access.  Important lesson when it comes to purchasing property in the North East US.  Before you commit, visit your local Fire Department/Ambulance/Town Clerk and ask about off season access.  Just because a building is insulated and has a heat source doesn't guarantee you can live in some places year round.

And yes, I made more than one medical call on a snowmobile, but that's not a ride out you want to make as a patient.

[Hula Hoop]

Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?

Norway here, but kind of the same system as the Netherlands and Italy (no police visit, though). The upside of the welfare system is that it takes a lot for people to be homeless. The municipality you are registered with are responsible for finding you housing and other types of help. The downside is that there are cracks to fall through, and when that happens we all get very confused. There have been a few cases in the media lately about people who have tried to survive outside the system, and have been registered as "emigrated or dead". After three years of no address, your rights to welfare help and medical assistance (outside emergency care) expire.

This may apply to countries like Norway, but not much welfare help here in Italy and there are tons of homeless people.  When I come home late at night from a social event the piazza near my house is a virtual dormitory.  The welfare state (apart from medical care) is more extensive in my home state in the US than in Italy IMO.  There is very little public housing here and unemployment benefits are extremely skimpy.  There are also no food stamps.  Basically, your family is meant to look after you if you can't work for whatever reason.  If you don't have a family then you're (more or less) on your own.

[gaja]

Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?

Norway here, but kind of the same system as the Netherlands and Italy (no police visit, though). The upside of the welfare system is that it takes a lot for people to be homeless. The municipality you are registered with are responsible for finding you housing and other types of help. The downside is that there are cracks to fall through, and when that happens we all get very confused. There have been a few cases in the media lately about people who have tried to survive outside the system, and have been registered as "emigrated or dead". After three years of no address, your rights to welfare help and medical assistance (outside emergency care) expire.

This may apply to countries like Norway, but not much welfare help here in Italy and there are tons of homeless people.  When I come home late at night from a social event the piazza near my house is a virtual dormitory.  The welfare state (apart from medical care) is more extensive in my home state in the US than in Italy IMO.  There is very little public housing here and unemployment benefits are extremely skimpy.  There are also no food stamps.  Basically, your family is meant to look after you if you can't work for whatever reason.  If you don't have a family then you're (more or less) on your own.

The boat refugees also have had a much larger impact on Italy than on Norway. I'm sorry we haven't stepped up more.

[Imma]

In my country the welfare state is much more generous than in Italy but the housing shortage is so extreme that no one can find you a place to live if you don't have €€€. I am actually surprised we don't have way more homeless people on the streets. I think one reason for that is that our country is so small and culturally people are less likely to move away from their hometown, so many people who end up without a permanent place to live can rely on their social network for a roof over their head and there's a relatively big chance that location is within commuting distance from work. I'm a mustachian with savings, a degree and an income and if my partner and I would split up, I wouldn't be able to afford to rent a one bedroom apartment on my own. The housing shortage I think is one of the main reasons for hostility towards refugees.

We have something similar to welfare in the US sense which pays 100% of minimum wage for a family, 70% to a single parent and 50% to a single person. The rules are extremely strict and don't dare to step out of the tight little box we've defined for you or you face steep penalties and fines.

Social insurances (unemployment, disability) come with less strict rules and income based payments but you don't get paid out unless you've paid in and with the gig economy less people qualify to pay in.

[Hirondelle]

If you are a fulltime traveller it's really difficult. I don't know the details as it isn't super common to actually live in a vehicle here, but there are books and websites about how to make that happen, so there are some ways around it. I know more than a few retirees who spend winters in warmer climates, but they generally keep their homes in NL so they are registed there. One of my neighbours is away all winter in their RV.

To add to the 'this is how it works in Europe!'-page of this thread; I know a little about this.

Full time RV'ing is rare/non-existent in my country, but full time travel is not. If you plan to stay out of the country for over 8 months consecutively (some sources even say it's per calendar year, so if you do the last 7 months of 2019, then the first 7 of 2020 you should still be good but don't pin me down on this) you need to de-register yourself as a resident. This means you do not need to pay for national health insurance, do not pay any taxes (unless you have local income) but also do not build up any Social Security (which in contrast to the US is based on numbers of years you've lived here instead of how much you worked).

Most full time travelers I know just register somewhere else. If you have parents or grandparents that have no social benefits it's easy to register at their place and just compensate them for the extra taxes. I've done this twice when living abroad >8 months. As most full time travelers don't have any (registered) income it doesn't come with too many tax/benefits implications for the people already living there.

Another way to pull it off if you're a home-owner is to rent out your house while staying registered yourself (so pretending you're just renting out a room)

Usually the government doesn't check much, unless they get suspicious (e.g. living with your parents at age 40, no income or significant assets, yet no government benefits)

[dragoncar]

To be fair, if you are a time traveler you probably don’t worry too much about government regulations.  Apprentice time travelers might, but not full time travelers.

[IsThisAGoodUsername]

To be fair, if you are a time traveler you probably don’t worry too much about government regulations.  Apprentice time travelers might, but not full time travelers.

Just remember to come back before you leave!

[PDXTabs]

In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).

Strictly speaking this is also true in every US state that I am aware of if you have a state drivers license or ID card (which is almost everyone). This comes in handy when the police need to find someone (like if your parent dies). However, in the real world in the states these laws are rarely enforced unless you are dodging taxes. If you are dodging taxes there are people on staff to find you.

[Panly]

The consequences are far more severe. In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).

OT but I didn't realize that this was a Europe-wide phenomenon or that it was Napoleon's idea.  I just thought it was a weird Italian thing.  Here in Italy, when you move house you have to inform the local government and they send a police officer to literally check that you live where you say you do.  In my case, I found it very invasive as he came by when I was eating breakfast in my pajamas and proceeded to barge in and check my kitchen cupboards and clothes closet.  He also spoke to one of my neighbors to ask if I really lived there.  Do they do this also in the Netherlands? 

It really bothers me having to tell the government my business (ie. where I live) but I guess it makes things more efficient for them if you don't have privacy concerns.

That sounds really strange. Too many police? lol

In Germany you have to register at your address but nobody comes to check.

But nowadays in order to be able to register,
you need to bring a form signed by the landlord who confirms that you live in his rental.

[scottish]

The US has plenty of places that are prohibited from full time occupation, as well. This is especially true in rural vacation areas (my family has such a cabin), but another common prohibition is living on your boat in protected waters.

I have never heard of such a thing in the US. The rural cabins I'm familiar with would be inhospitable during the winter, but I'm not sure who would prevent you from staying on your own property? How is such a thing enforced?

Maybe it's more of a "you're on your own, stay at your own risk" sort of policy. Like, if you have a remote cabin in unincorporated territory in the northern US, you can't reasonably expect timely emergency services during winter.

Former Northern US resident with emergency services experience.  Seasonal housing in our area received NO emergency services AT ALL during the winters.  The roads in weren't plowed.  I watched more than one building burn from a distance because we couldn't get the trucks to the scene.  Even when the resident plowed their road themselves or the snow had melted, we couldn't always access the properties because the roads couldn't handle the weight of the vehicles. 

Some of the more remote properties were "you're on your own, stay at your own risk" during the summers as well, but others, in more populated areas where residents might be tempted to stay out of season had road access blocked by the town (cement barriers) installed each fall to restrict off season access.  Important lesson when it comes to purchasing property in the North East US.  Before you commit, visit your local Fire Department/Ambulance/Town Clerk and ask about off season access.  Just because a building is insulated and has a heat source doesn't guarantee you can live in some places year round.

And yes, I made more than one medical call on a snowmobile, but that's not a ride out you want to make as a patient.

That doesn't sound like the land of the free.    The municipality will actively try to prevent you from accessing your own property?

[Polaria]

In Belgium the police come and check. They came very early in the morning, as I was breastfeeding my dd in bed, and dh was hoovering our studio in his bathrobe :) This somehow also convinced the officer that we were in a proper relationship, which was the second reason she came to check on us:)
There is a lot of fraud, especially in Brussels, with people claiming being properly married for residence and work permit reasons.

Yup, still waiting for the local policy officer to show up, two months after I moved. Guess I’ll give them a call in a good week after end of year madness.

The fraud is not only for residence and work permit reasons, but also because your social benefits such as unemployment depend on your familial situation (single, in couple, primary earner or not, with or without children etc).

[joleran]

That doesn't sound like the land of the free.    The municipality will actively try to prevent you from accessing your own property?

Technically, they are preventing you from accessing public roads that are in a "not supported" status, which is well within their rights.  If you can get there without the roads they're not going to hunt you down.

[dragoncar]

That doesn't sound like the land of the free.    The municipality will actively try to prevent you from accessing your own property?

Technically, they are preventing you from accessing public roads that are in a "not supported" status, which is well within their rights.  If you can get there without the roads they're not going to hunt you down.

Whether or not it’s in their rights, I agree it doesn’t sound like the land of the free.  In the past, you were free to do all kinds of stupid stuff that would get you killed.  You still are in many ways, but less so

[Missy B]

Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?

Norway here, but kind of the same system as the Netherlands and Italy (no police visit, though). The upside of the welfare system is that it takes a lot for people to be homeless. The municipality you are registered with are responsible for finding you housing and other types of help. The downside is that there are cracks to fall through, and when that happens we all get very confused. There have been a few cases in the media lately about people who have tried to survive outside the system, and have been registered as "emigrated or dead". After three years of no address, your rights to welfare help and medical assistance (outside emergency care) expire.

Amazed to read that access to welfare and medical can expire, esp in a socialist country. In Canada any suggestion that the state cut off welfare or medical access to citizens for any reason, but especially homelessness, would bring the wrath of Mordor down on the suggestor's head. Of course we suck badly at creating housing for anyone other than money-laundering foreign nationals, and I assume that Norway's rules are also a product of an extremely rigorous re-housing policy.

[Freedomin5]

Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?

Norway here, but kind of the same system as the Netherlands and Italy (no police visit, though). The upside of the welfare system is that it takes a lot for people to be homeless. The municipality you are registered with are responsible for finding you housing and other types of help. The downside is that there are cracks to fall through, and when that happens we all get very confused. There have been a few cases in the media lately about people who have tried to survive outside the system, and have been registered as "emigrated or dead". After three years of no address, your rights to welfare help and medical assistance (outside emergency care) expire.

Amazed to read that access to welfare and medical can expire, esp in a socialist country. In Canada any suggestion that the state cut off welfare or medical access to citizens for any reason, but especially homelessness, would bring the wrath of Mordor down on the suggestor's head. Of course we suck badly at creating housing for anyone other than money-laundering foreign nationals, and I assume that Norway's rules are also a product of an extremely rigorous re-housing policy.

In Canada, it’s the same. If you’ve emigrated, are declared dead, or are declared non-resident, the government won’t pay for your healthcare (after a year as an expat, I no longer had OHIP), I can’t contribute to an RRSP or TFSA, and I don’t  qualify for CPP even though I am a Canadian citizen. Since I didn’t contribute to the system, I don’t get to reap the benefits. I think that’s fair that access to medical access and social security plans have been cut off to me, at least until I move back and reestablish residency.

Now, I do pay property taxes since we own a home in Toronto, so that gives me access to neighborhood services like the local library.

[gaja]

Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?

Norway here, but kind of the same system as the Netherlands and Italy (no police visit, though). The upside of the welfare system is that it takes a lot for people to be homeless. The municipality you are registered with are responsible for finding you housing and other types of help. The downside is that there are cracks to fall through, and when that happens we all get very confused. There have been a few cases in the media lately about people who have tried to survive outside the system, and have been registered as "emigrated or dead". After three years of no address, your rights to welfare help and medical assistance (outside emergency care) expire.

Amazed to read that access to welfare and medical can expire, esp in a socialist country. In Canada any suggestion that the state cut off welfare or medical access to citizens for any reason, but especially homelessness, would bring the wrath of Mordor down on the suggestor's head. Of course we suck badly at creating housing for anyone other than money-laundering foreign nationals, and I assume that Norway's rules are also a product of an extremely rigorous re-housing policy.

It is a glitch, since the system can't comprehend homeless citizens. So the few cases have created some wrath. I think it is quite fair that people who willingly emigrate should lose access to the system after a while, but we have to find an option for those who don't fit into the forms. And we have to improve the situation for those 3909 who are homeless.

[Gerard]

In Canada any suggestion that the state cut off welfare or medical access to citizens for any reason, but especially homelessness, would bring the wrath of Mordor down on the suggestor's head.

I'm ready to be corrected by people with recent knowledge of the process, but I believe it's hard to get welfare in Canada if you're truly homeless because you need a bank account and to get a bank account you need an address. I think some service agencies let people use their address, but that sets off other flags in the system (too many applicants from a single address are assumed to include fraudulent claims).

I suspect in all these places it's the same underlying problem -- the political harm from "giving away taxpayer money" is so big that we end up with systems that filter out some people who really need help.

[LetItGrow]

The consequences are far more severe. In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).

OT but I didn't realize that this was a Europe-wide phenomenon or that it was Napoleon's idea.  I just thought it was a weird Italian thing.  Here in Italy, when you move house you have to inform the local government and they send a police officer to literally check that you live where you say you do.  In my case, I found it very invasive as he came by when I was eating breakfast in my pajamas and proceeded to barge in and check my kitchen cupboards and clothes closet.  He also spoke to one of my neighbors to ask if I really lived there.  Do they do this also in the Netherlands? 

It really bothers me having to tell the government my business (ie. where I live) but I guess it makes things more efficient for them if you don't have privacy concerns.

That sounds really strange. Too many police? lol

In Germany you have to register at your address but nobody comes to check.

I assume they let the GEZ crew fill in any potential gaps.

[Freedomin5]

The consequences are far more severe. In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).

OT but I didn't realize that this was a Europe-wide phenomenon or that it was Napoleon's idea.  I just thought it was a weird Italian thing.  Here in Italy, when you move house you have to inform the local government and they send a police officer to literally check that you live where you say you do.  In my case, I found it very invasive as he came by when I was eating breakfast in my pajamas and proceeded to barge in and check my kitchen cupboards and clothes closet.  He also spoke to one of my neighbors to ask if I really lived there.  Do they do this also in the Netherlands? 

It really bothers me having to tell the government my business (ie. where I live) but I guess it makes things more efficient for them if you don't have privacy concerns.

That sounds really strange. Too many police? lol

In Germany you have to register at your address but nobody comes to check.

I assume they let the GEZ crew fill in any potential gaps.

Everyone talks about how China limits an individual’s freedom/privacy, etc., but it sounds like it’s worse in Italy  (a free European country) than in China. We have to register (online), but no one comes to check.

[LennStar]

The consequences are far more severe. In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).

OT but I didn't realize that this was a Europe-wide phenomenon or that it was Napoleon's idea.  I just thought it was a weird Italian thing.  Here in Italy, when you move house you have to inform the local government and they send a police officer to literally check that you live where you say you do.  In my case, I found it very invasive as he came by when I was eating breakfast in my pajamas and proceeded to barge in and check my kitchen cupboards and clothes closet.  He also spoke to one of my neighbors to ask if I really lived there.  Do they do this also in the Netherlands? 

It really bothers me having to tell the government my business (ie. where I live) but I guess it makes things more efficient for them if you don't have privacy concerns.

That sounds really strange. Too many police? lol

In Germany you have to register at your address but nobody comes to check.

I assume they let the GEZ crew fill in any potential gaps.

Everyone talks about how China limits an individual’s freedom/privacy, etc., but it sounds like it’s worse in Italy  (a free European country) than in China. We have to register (online), but no one comes to check.

In some parts of China you have to register, but it's superfluous, since they have every single step you do outside the house or on your computer recorded anyway and you have to show your ID daily to police.
Don't want to be an Uighur, right?

[Sibley]

Back to work after a 2 week break over the holidays. Paydate was Friday. And something went wrong. They fixed it, and people got paid Saturday/Monday depending on their banks. Seems that my immediate coworkers in general were ok, but the comments on the intranet announcement were  interesting. It didn't help that corporate communications wasn't exactly on top of it. One person specifically mentioned their diabetes and antidepressant medications.

[mtn]

Back to work after a 2 week break over the holidays. Paydate was Friday. And something went wrong. They fixed it, and people got paid Saturday/Monday depending on their banks. Seems that my immediate coworkers in general were ok, but the comments on the intranet announcement were  interesting. It didn't help that corporate communications wasn't exactly on top of it. One person specifically mentioned their diabetes and antidepressant medications.

I don't think this is necessarily anti-mustachian. I manage my accounts to a pretty strict budget, there is rarely a lot of play room in my checking account. With my automatic withdrawals (student loans and mortgage) I would be pretty upset if work fucked up my paydate. It could easily cause an overdraft, literally through no fault of my own. I expect my employer to pay me on time, and that is about the most reasonable expectation there is - especially in today's world where it is all done by direct deposit.

[OtherJen]

Back to work after a 2 week break over the holidays. Paydate was Friday. And something went wrong. They fixed it, and people got paid Saturday/Monday depending on their banks. Seems that my immediate coworkers in general were ok, but the comments on the intranet announcement were  interesting. It didn't help that corporate communications wasn't exactly on top of it. One person specifically mentioned their diabetes and antidepressant medications.

I don't think this is necessarily anti-mustachian. I manage my accounts to a pretty strict budget, there is rarely a lot of play room in my checking account. With my automatic withdrawals (student loans and mortgage) I would be pretty upset if work fucked up my paydate. It could easily cause an overdraft, literally through no fault of my own. I expect my employer to pay me on time, and that is about the most reasonable expectation there is - especially in today's world where it is all done by direct deposit.

Seconded.

[Sibley]

Back to work after a 2 week break over the holidays. Paydate was Friday. And something went wrong. They fixed it, and people got paid Saturday/Monday depending on their banks. Seems that my immediate coworkers in general were ok, but the comments on the intranet announcement were  interesting. It didn't help that corporate communications wasn't exactly on top of it. One person specifically mentioned their diabetes and antidepressant medications.

I don't think this is necessarily anti-mustachian. I manage my accounts to a pretty strict budget, there is rarely a lot of play room in my checking account. With my automatic withdrawals (student loans and mortgage) I would be pretty upset if work fucked up my paydate. It could easily cause an overdraft, literally through no fault of my own. I expect my employer to pay me on time, and that is about the most reasonable expectation there is - especially in today's world where it is all done by direct deposit.

Seconded.

Oh agreed. Anyone could be messed up by a late paydate. But there were plenty of comments about living paycheck to paycheck, etc.

[Goldielocks]

The consequences are far more severe. In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).

OT but I didn't realize that this was a Europe-wide phenomenon or that it was Napoleon's idea.  I just thought it was a weird Italian thing.  Here in Italy, when you move house you have to inform the local government and they send a police officer to literally check that you live where you say you do.  In my case, I found it very invasive as he came by when I was eating breakfast in my pajamas and proceeded to barge in and check my kitchen cupboards and clothes closet.  He also spoke to one of my neighbors to ask if I really lived there.  Do they do this also in the Netherlands? 

It really bothers me having to tell the government my business (ie. where I live) but I guess it makes things more efficient for them if you don't have privacy concerns.

That sounds really strange. Too many police? lol

In Germany you have to register at your address but nobody comes to check.

I assume they let the GEZ crew fill in any potential gaps.

Everyone talks about how China limits an individual’s freedom/privacy, etc., but it sounds like it’s worse in Italy  (a free European country) than in China. We have to register (online), but no one comes to check.

In some parts of China you have to register, but it's superfluous, since they have every single step you do outside the house or on your computer recorded anyway and you have to show your ID daily to police.
Don't want to be an Uighur, right?

This is why I am unsettled at the idea of China moving to "digital" currency - one more way to track and control.

[Trekkiekins]

My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

[Monerexia]

My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

Like I've said for years, you can't cure stupid, but you sure as hell can profit off it.

[afuera]

My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

There is a certain TX gas station with a cult following.  I actually have a branded T-shirt from there (thrifted!) and a coozie.  Its so much more than just a gas station :)

[ms]

I was taking a car to the airport after a meeting and I got to talking with the driver. Turns out he drove a 2002 Buick for 10 years until it was stolen. He had bought it from his aunt for $1000.

Then he goes on to say: "I've been leasing ever since. I like having a new car every couple of years without having to pay for it."

[LennStar]

My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

Like I've said for years, you can't cure stupid, but you sure as hell can profit off it.

My MPP: I am too moral to do that.

[RobertFromTX]

My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

There is a certain TX gas station with a cult following.  I actually have a branded T-shirt from there (thrifted!) and a coozie.  Its so much more than just a gas station :)

I've seen people spend hundreds of dollars at Buc-ee's. You can get a charcoal grill, deer corn, a yeti cooler AND lunch. It's like the euphoria of finding a Buc-ee's causes people to spend extra amounts.

[DadJokes]

My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

There is a certain TX gas station with a cult following.  I actually have a branded T-shirt from there (thrifted!) and a coozie.  Its so much more than just a gas station :)

What, are we not allowed to say Buc-ee's out loud?

People really do love that place. I'm from Texas and had never heard of it until a few years ago. We were planning a road trip back to visit family, and one of my wife's coworkers insisted that we go to one. It was quite the experience. However, I'd still rather get some Allsup's fried burritos than anything Buc-ee's had to offer.

[TVRodriguez]

I was taking a car to the airport after a meeting and I got to talking with the driver. Turns out he drove a 2002 Buick for 10 years until it was stolen. He had bought it from his aunt for $1000.

Then he goes on to say: "I've been leasing ever since. I like having a new car every couple of years without having to pay for it."

Um

[honeybbq]

What, are we not allowed to say Buc-ee's out loud?

The place that must-not-be-named.

[techwiz]

I was taking a car to the airport after a meeting and I got to talking with the driver. Turns out he drove a 2002 Buick for 10 years until it was stolen. He had bought it from his aunt for $1000.

Then he goes on to say: "I've been leasing ever since. I like having a new car every couple of years without having to pay for it."

Um

Maybe he expenses the lease so it's doesn't seem like his own money?

[Playing with Fire UK]

I was taking a car to the airport after a meeting and I got to talking with the driver. Turns out he drove a 2002 Buick for 10 years until it was stolen. He had bought it from his aunt for $1000.

Then he goes on to say: "I've been leasing ever since. I like having a new car every couple of years without having to pay for it."

Um

Maybe he expenses the lease so it's doesn't seem like his own money?

That car was stolen.

[ms]

I was taking a car to the airport after a meeting and I got to talking with the driver. Turns out he drove a 2002 Buick for 10 years until it was stolen. He had bought it from his aunt for $1000.

Then he goes on to say: "I've been leasing ever since. I like having a new car every couple of years without having to pay for it."

Um

Maybe he expenses the lease so it's doesn't seem like his own money?

That car was stolen.

He lives in the Detroit area so maybe that's why it was stolen?

As for expensing it.. Don't know. Before he got this job driving business customers back in April, he said he was driving for Uber for 3 months. He currently has a Chevy Cruz and he says that every day he would fill $20 worth of gas and then worked Uber 8 to 10 hours, 7 days a week. He said he'd make $150/day but it was not steady and no health benefits. He says that that would allow him to pay rent and his bills but just barely.

[Monerexia]

My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

Like I've said for years, you can't cure stupid, but you sure as hell can profit off it.

My MPP: I am too moral to do that.

MPP? Much easier to give them what they want than try to save someone who doesn't want to be saved.

[OtherJen]

I was taking a car to the airport after a meeting and I got to talking with the driver. Turns out he drove a 2002 Buick for 10 years until it was stolen. He had bought it from his aunt for $1000.

Then he goes on to say: "I've been leasing ever since. I like having a new car every couple of years without having to pay for it."

Um

Maybe he expenses the lease so it's doesn't seem like his own money?

That car was stolen.

He lives in the Detroit area so maybe that's why it was stolen?

As for expensing it.. Don't know. Before he got this job driving business customers back in April, he said he was driving for Uber for 3 months. He currently has a Chevy Cruz and he says that every day he would fill $20 worth of gas and then worked Uber 8 to 10 hours, 7 days a week. He said he'd make $150/day but it was not steady and no health benefits. He says that that would allow him to pay rent and his bills but just barely.

No, we don't all drive stolen cars here.

He's probably like my parents and in-laws who have convinced themselves that it's better to have a car subscription (essentially) and not worry about upkeep costs, without ever stopping to consider whether they would come out ahead if they bought a car and held onto it for a decade.

[The_Big_H]

My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

Like I've said for years, you can't cure stupid, but you sure as hell can profit off it.

My MPP: I am too moral to do that.

Aren't we all profiting off stupidity though?  If you own an S&P500 fund you surely are.  Tobacco companies, car companies (and their financing divisions), banks (and their CC divisions), junk food manufacturers, overpriced electric gizmo makers...

[Monerexia]

My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

Like I've said for years, you can't cure stupid, but you sure as hell can profit off it.

My MPP: I am too moral to do that.

Aren't we all profiting off stupidity though?  If you own an S&P500 fund you surely are.  Tobacco companies, car companies (and their financing divisions), banks (and their CC divisions), junk food manufacturers, overpriced electric gizmo makers...

Yep. I celebrate every huge-truck, dollar-a-block-in-fuel-costs hillbilly I see.

[Imma]

My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

Like I've said for years, you can't cure stupid, but you sure as hell can profit off it.

My MPP: I am too moral to do that.

Aren't we all profiting off stupidity though?  If you own an S&P500 fund you surely are.  Tobacco companies, car companies (and their financing divisions), banks (and their CC divisions), junk food manufacturers, overpriced electric gizmo makers...

I only own sustainable funds now. I really don't want to make money off tobacco or other controversial goods. Many funds are sustainable these days.

[dragoncar]

My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

Like I've said for years, you can't cure stupid, but you sure as hell can profit off it.

My MPP: I am too moral to do that.

Aren't we all profiting off stupidity though?  If you own an S&P500 fund you surely are.  Tobacco companies, car companies (and their financing divisions), banks (and their CC divisions), junk food manufacturers, overpriced electric gizmo makers...

I only own sustainable funds now. I really don't want to make money off tobacco or other controversial goods. Many funds are sustainable these days.

Sustainability of a company doesn’t really address whether profits are made from the stupidity of others.  A quick scan of ESG funds shows holdings like Pepsi, Visa, Disney.  It’s pretty much impossible to invest in an index fund and not take advantage of stupid people.  IMO it’s gotta be good enough not to specifically target people

[LennStar]

Sustainability of a company doesn’t really address whether profits are made from the stupidity of others.  A quick scan of ESG funds shows holdings like Pepsi, Visa, Disney.  It’s pretty much impossible to invest in an index fund and not take advantage of stupid people.  IMO it’s gotta be good enough not to specifically target people

It is pretty much impossible to have any fond that is not using unethical companies (make money from powerless people or damaging them) or those that make money from stupid people.

That is lao in part because of how big and diverse today's megacorps are. Company X is very responsible. But they also hold 14% of a weapon factory?

Or do you have Nestlè in there? The company that steals the water from under villages in 3rd world countries (or sometimes in 1st world too) to sell them bottled water when their wells no longer work?

[ms]

No, we don't all drive stolen cars here.

I was not implying that at all.

[okisok]

Sorry to add to the off-topic foam, but I just visited a Buc-ee's for the first time *yesterday*. I was absolutely floored. They had WEDDING merchandise, y'all. Plus the aformentioned deer corn, etc. You could decorate your living room, host a barbecue, plan a wedding, buy all your Christmas presents, plus fill up with gas. It was surreal.
One of us did spend $30 on branded merchandise, but it was the 12yo spending his allowance money :) I used the ultra-clean and spacious restrooms. There was hand sanitizer IN the stalls!

[Fomerly known as something]

Sustainability of a company doesn’t really address whether profits are made from the stupidity of others.  A quick scan of ESG funds shows holdings like Pepsi, Visa, Disney.  It’s pretty much impossible to invest in an index fund and not take advantage of stupid people.  IMO it’s gotta be good enough not to specifically target people

It is pretty much impossible to have any fond that is not using unethical companies (make money from powerless people or damaging them) or those that make money from stupid people.

That is lao in part because of how big and diverse today's megacorps are. Company X is very responsible. But they also hold 14% of a weapon factory?

Or do you have Nestlè in there? The company that steals the water from under villages in 3rd world countries (or sometimes in 1st world too) to sell them bottled water when their wells no longer work?

Totally do in the first world.  It's a big deal here in MI.

[talltexan]

My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

There is a certain TX gas station with a cult following.  I actually have a branded T-shirt from there (thrifted!) and a coozie.  Its so much more than just a gas station :)

My first thought when I read this was that it had to be Bucc-ee's

[DadJokes]

This isn't the typical anti-mustachian overheard at work conversation.

I was talking with a co-worker who started on the same day I did ~2 years ago as a fresh college graduate. Between his rent, student loan payments, car loan (6 year loan signed 1 year ago), and car insurance ($160/month), he has zero wiggle room in his spending. "Zero wiggle room" are his words, not mine. I remember a conversation a few months ago when he mentioned that he had been using food delivery daily.

We hopefully talked him into at least shopping his car insurance around, but he's 24 with a wreck on his record, so there may not be as much savings there as I'm hoping.

I offered to sit down with him and go over his whole budget to see if I can find some low-hanging fruit. I kind of hope that he doesn't take me up on the offer, as things I consider unnecessary luxuries might be deal breakers for him. But hopefully he'll take a few steps in the right direction after the conversation.

[charis]

PTF