Author Topic: Sky-high inflation? Blame the millenials  (Read 4635 times)

ChpBstrd

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Re: Sky-high inflation? Blame the millenials
« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2022, 10:43:32 AM »
If everything's so expensive, maybe we should just sell the United States, each get our distribution, and move to somewhere else in the world with a similarly weak healthcare system, weak government, violent culture, weak human rights standards, and massive debt.

Would life in Argentina, South Africa, Egypt, India, Russia, or Mexico really be that much different for us? If all we do is stare at cell phones, does it matter where we do it from?

lifeisshort123

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Re: Sky-high inflation? Blame the millenials
« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2022, 12:28:15 PM »
I think that life in the United States can be expensive, but it can also be less expensive.  A lot of it is what you make of it.

Some aspects are becoming much more expensive - healthcare the biggest among them - which is an assault on middle income individuals on many fronts - less coverage, higher deductibles, more having to share costs with employers in terms of premiums, more employers limiting or reducing the amount of share for non-employee members of the family unit, a preference to employer-based-healthcare which does not benefit the rising ďgig economy workersĒ. 

A lot of the other decisions come down to choices and decisions that families are making - should I get married, should I not get married, how many kids do I want, etc.  Do I want to live in a place with high property taxes because of the benefits? Or do I prefer to live somewhere with less of a safety net in exchange for less services? Do we want both spouses to work and therefore earn more money but have to pay for childcare? Or should one spouse stay home so that we donít have to pay for childcare?

Overall I side with the idea that choice is a good thing, but it also must be said that it requires you as the individual to take care of yourself and your familyís decisions a bit more proactively.

PDXTabs

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Re: Sky-high inflation? Blame the millenials
« Reply #52 on: July 27, 2022, 12:56:27 PM »
If everything's so expensive, maybe we should just sell the United States, each get our distribution, and move to somewhere else in the world with a similarly weak healthcare system, weak government, violent culture, weak human rights standards, and massive debt.

Would life in Argentina, South Africa, Egypt, India, Russia, or Mexico really be that much different for us? If all we do is stare at cell phones, does it matter where we do it from?

Well, the difference between Argentina and the USA is that Argentina is trying to get into the OECD and as far as I can tell the USA is trying to get out of it.

We're just the first developed country that is going to go back to developing out of pure apathy and not some other shock like war. But sign me up, how do I sell my shares? Mexico looks nice to me.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2022, 12:58:20 PM by PDXTabs »

spartana

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Re: Sky-high inflation? Blame the millenials
« Reply #53 on: July 27, 2022, 01:11:33 PM »
Old Millennial here. I thought the "Millennials are ruining x" articles had finally ended. But I was wrong. Can we start picking on Gen Z soon please :)

I get so tired of hearing my boomer family members and in-laws parroting this crap.

Nope Gen Z will be forgotten soon like Gen X.  Your kids will be the next boggiemen.
Nah. Boomers made it too tough to get financially stable enough to have kids, especially multiple kids.

https://money.com/child-care-costs-declining-birth-rate/
Weren't old boomers too busy smoking pot, dropping acid, listening to rock, not cutting their hair, not taking showers, trying to avoid the draft, going barefoot and grungy (think how much money your average 20 y.o. hippy in the late 60s/early 70s saved compared to your average millennial just on grooming - or lack of grooming - and thift store clothes, coffee and cell phones) as they pan handled for spare change on the street corner, waiting in longggg gas lines every other day and having love-ins, sit-ins and anti war protest to bother making babies? Maybe that was caused by too many love-ins during a low birth control times ;-). I imagine the young boomers were trying to get a job during the high unemployment and high inflation times of the early 80s and trying to not get AIDS. Oh and rocking to big hair bands and heavy metal. Where did they all go wrong! Perhaps it's the middle boomers with their flashy clothes and their disco. Yeah that's it. And millenials ;-).

But seriously why the boomer hate? Not sure what a "generation" that spanned more than 20 years during some very volitale and changing times have to do with anything. Is it mainly because some older boomers and younger Greatest Generation people bought homes during good times? Or some had jobs with pensions? The last 10 plus years have been the best financial Times I can remember with the lowest interest rates and seems all generations - especially the younger working people - had the opportunity to take full advantage of that. But maybe I'm missing something. I perhaps need a nap!
« Last Edit: July 27, 2022, 01:26:41 PM by spartana »

TomTX

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Re: Sky-high inflation? Blame the millenials
« Reply #54 on: July 27, 2022, 03:28:24 PM »
But seriously why the boomer hate?
Boomers have largely been in control of the USA for decades (corporate, government, etc). (Among other advantages) They had the advantages of cheap college and even minimum wage jobs which could pay for said college - and presided over the destruction of that system which supported regular folks making good with a bit of effort.

While Boomers were in charge we went from a society where a single earner, HS-educated family could own a house and raise several kids to one where dual earner (often college educated) families struggle to pay rent and raise just one kid. Plus all the ecological/climate damage accrued from the approaches largely chosen by Boomers.

The Simpsons (or Married with Children) were supposed to be a parody of lower-income, struggling Americans. Today, even mid-income Americans have a really tough time matching that lifestyle: Single, HS-educated earner in a (very) low-status job, stay-at-home-spouse with 3(2) kids, 2 cars, owning a SFH house with 3-4 bedrooms and money left over for vacations.

PDXTabs

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Re: Sky-high inflation? Blame the millenials
« Reply #55 on: July 27, 2022, 03:42:45 PM »
But seriously why the boomer hate?
Boomers have largely been in control of the USA for decades (corporate, government, etc). (Among other advantages) They had the advantages of cheap college and even minimum wage jobs which could pay for said college - and presided over the destruction of that system which supported regular folks making good with a bit of effort.

While Boomers were in charge we went from a society where a single earner, HS-educated family could own a house and raise several kids to one where dual earner (often college educated) families struggle to pay rent and raise just one kid. Plus all the ecological/climate damage accrued from the approaches largely chosen by Boomers.

Yup, the Boomers arguably got cheap college paid for with tax money and tax rates that are higher than today and then cut taxes and college.

But the thing with people buying a house and putting their kids through college and then retiring with a fat pension with one HS educated earner might be an aberration of history from the post-WWII time when the USA was the only country left standing with any industrial capacity to speak of.

EDITed to add: don't forget to blame boomers for R1 zoning. That's definitely their fault. Well, not in the literal sense like they invented it, that was their parents. But once they were the dominant economic generation they kept it to preserve their home equity.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2022, 03:48:22 PM by PDXTabs »

GuitarStv

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Re: Sky-high inflation? Blame the millenials
« Reply #56 on: July 27, 2022, 04:03:22 PM »
Boomers were instrumental in building the systems of overconsumption that directly led to the likely terminal environmental situation that humanity will be struggling with into the foreseeable future.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Sky-high inflation? Blame the millenials
« Reply #57 on: July 27, 2022, 04:27:47 PM »
IIRC, the first boomer US president was Bill Clinton, who was in his 40s when elected in 1992. Members of Congress trend older, so let's pick a reasonable year and say that's when the Boomers took over government. How about 1994 or 1996? Is that reasonable?

I suggest that the following factors were entrenched or in progress long before the boomers took over:

1) A structural federal deficit and growing national debt
2) Globalization, automation, and the decline of US manufacturing jobs
3) Subsidized mortgages, encouraging houses to become bigger and bigger, and for there to be fewer "starter" homes
4) Universities becoming bloated resorts offering many useless degrees that were increasingly unaffordable
5) The shift from more affordable cars to luxury SUVs
6) Suburban sprawl, a lifestyle design which manages to increase both transportation and infrastructure costs simultaneously
7) Crime actually peaked just before the boomers took over
8) The American middle class was in decline since the early 1970s
9) Healthcare inflation was already becoming a major issue.
10) Consumerism as the dominant cultural value
11) Deteriorating quality of journalism
12) The shift toward processed foods and fast food

So it was really the self-described "Greatest Generation" and the "Silent Generation" who were in charge when whatever policy or cultural changes occurred that precipitated these issues. They retired from their leadership roles in the 1990s when the crises we now face were at an embryonic level. Sure these generations did some important things, such as not letting the cold war get hot, enacting public health improvements, promoting civil rights and women's rights, improving education, defeating inflation, removing lead from gasoline, discouraging smoking, and starting to think about environmental protection. But they also authored many of the policies and cultural norms which led to the problems on this list.

TL;DR: It's your dead grandpa's fault.

PDXTabs

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Re: Sky-high inflation? Blame the millenials
« Reply #58 on: July 27, 2022, 04:37:37 PM »
IIRC, the first boomer US president was Bill Clinton, who was in his 40s when elected in 1992. Members of Congress trend older, so let's pick a reasonable year and say that's when the Boomers took over government. How about 1994 or 1996? Is that reasonable?

I suggest that the following factors were entrenched or in progress long before the boomers took over:

1) A structural federal deficit and growing national debt
2) Globalization, automation, and the decline of US manufacturing jobs
3) Subsidized mortgages, encouraging houses to become bigger and bigger, and for there to be fewer "starter" homes
4) Universities becoming bloated resorts offering many useless degrees that were increasingly unaffordable
5) The shift from more affordable cars to luxury SUVs
6) Suburban sprawl, a lifestyle design which manages to increase both transportation and infrastructure costs simultaneously
7) Crime actually peaked just before the boomers took over
8) The American middle class was in decline since the early 1970s
9) Healthcare inflation was already becoming a major issue.
10) Consumerism as the dominant cultural value
11) Deteriorating quality of journalism
12) The shift toward processed foods and fast food

So it was really the self-described "Greatest Generation" and the "Silent Generation" who were in charge when whatever policy or cultural changes occurred that precipitated these issues. They retired from their leadership roles in the 1990s when the crises we now face were at an embryonic level. Sure these generations did some important things, such as not letting the cold war get hot, enacting public health improvements, promoting civil rights and women's rights, improving education, defeating inflation, removing lead from gasoline, discouraging smoking, and starting to think about environmental protection. But they also authored many of the policies and cultural norms which led to the problems on this list.

TL;DR: It's your dead grandpa's fault.

I really like your list. Of course the counter argument is that first boomer started voting in 1964 and the last boomer started in 1982 (or at least got the right to).

spartana

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Re: Sky-high inflation? Blame the millenials
« Reply #59 on: July 29, 2022, 08:13:58 AM »
But seriously why the boomer hate?
Boomers have largely been in control of the USA for decades (corporate, government, etc). (Among other advantages) They had the advantages of cheap college and even minimum wage jobs which could pay for said college - and presided over the destruction of that system which supported regular folks making good with a bit of effort.

While Boomers were in charge we went from a society where a single earner, HS-educated family could own a house and raise several kids to one where dual earner (often college educated) families struggle to pay rent and raise just one kid. Plus all the ecological/climate damage accrued from the approaches largely chosen by Boomers.

The Simpsons (or Married with Children) were supposed to be a parody of lower-income, struggling Americans. Today, even mid-income Americans have a really tough time matching that lifestyle: Single, HS-educated earner in a (very) low-status job, stay-at-home-spouse with 3(2) kids, 2 cars, owning a SFH house with 3-4 bedrooms and money left over for vacations.
Thanks for the explanation. I tended to think many of those things were more due to off-shoring or closing down many of the "good" blue collar jobs in the 80s and 90s  rather then Boomer intervention but it happened when many of the younger Boomers were in their 20s so they were probably equally effected. I do often look at the Boomer generation as 2 totally different generations that effect, and we're effected by, different things. It's hard for me to envision a 1946 boomer even being the same as a 1964 boomer. Early boomers (college age in the mid-60s) dealt with lots of huge social changes, a huge impactful war, etc. Late Boomers (college age in the mid-80s) dealt with high inflation, high interest rates,  (we're talking 18% interest rate for a mortgage), high unemployment, etc. So probably 2 different experiences.

As for college cost I think that may have been more regional. I went to a Cal State University in the 90s (after more then a decade in the military since that was the only way I could pay for it) and prices (tuition) have been the same there for several years now - and not that much higher then when I went. I'm not sure that's the norm elsewhere though but my old university seems to have kept tuition fairly low with relatively modest annual increases.

Now everyone can say "OK Boomer" to me ;-).

lifeisshort123

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Re: Sky-high inflation? Blame the millenials
« Reply #60 on: July 29, 2022, 05:52:49 PM »
The boomers were the last generation to benefit from a different quality of life.  The social contract has changed in America since then. 

Also, much of American life changed - most especially the cost of healthcare and to another notable effect higher education.  As those costs have increased, they have fallen upon families as employers have been unable to fully fit the cost themselves, and the government was unable to reign them in either.

On the other hand, we have tremendous ability to treat people and find cures that were not around all those years ago.

So who knows.

spartana

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Re: Sky-high inflation? Blame the millenials
« Reply #61 on: July 31, 2022, 09:47:02 AM »
The boomers were the last generation to benefit from a different quality of life.  The social contract has changed in America since then. 

Also, much of American life changed - most especially the cost of healthcare and to another notable effect higher education.  As those costs have increased, they have fallen upon families as employers have been unable to fully fit the cost themselves, and the government was unable to reign them in either.

On the other hand, we have tremendous ability to treat people and find cures that were not around all those years ago.

So who knows.
I don't know if in the 60s and 70s black boomers or boomers of color,  female boomers, LGBTQ boomers, and 18 to 40 year old male boomers drafted to fight in Vietnam would agree. Legal racism and sexism and discrimination were pretty rampant back then.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2022, 09:52:20 AM by spartana »

Sibley

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Re: Sky-high inflation? Blame the millenials
« Reply #62 on: July 31, 2022, 11:22:47 AM »
The boomers were the last generation to benefit from a different quality of life.  The social contract has changed in America since then. 

Also, much of American life changed - most especially the cost of healthcare and to another notable effect higher education.  As those costs have increased, they have fallen upon families as employers have been unable to fully fit the cost themselves, and the government was unable to reign them in either.

On the other hand, we have tremendous ability to treat people and find cures that were not around all those years ago.

So who knows.
I don't know if in the 60s and 70s black boomers or boomers of color,  female boomers, LGBTQ boomers, and 18 to 40 year old male boomers drafted to fight in Vietnam would agree. Legal racism and sexism and discrimination were pretty rampant back then.

But those people don't matter, and exist only to serve the important ones: white men.

/s in case its not obvious.

NorCal

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Re: Sky-high inflation? Blame the millenials
« Reply #63 on: July 31, 2022, 11:24:17 AM »
For reference, I was born in 1980, so I can be categorized as Gen X or a millennial depending on what arbitrary stereotype Iím in the mood for that day.

And I donít really care enough to follow the clickbait link.

But in fairness to the point the article seems to be making, many economists partially attribute the inflation of the late 1970ís and 1980ís to the baby boomers entering the workforce.  The largest generation was looking for jobs, housing, cars, energy etc. all at a similar time. Demographics matter.

In addition, the long term decline in interest rates is also largely attributed to baby boomers starting to accumulate savings and assets as they aged. There is a case to be made that interest rates will take a more upward trend as they start selling those financial assets to fund retirement.

spartana

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Re: Sky-high inflation? Blame the millenials
« Reply #64 on: July 31, 2022, 05:03:59 PM »
The boomers were the last generation to benefit from a different quality of life.  The social contract has changed in America since then. 

Also, much of American life changed - most especially the cost of healthcare and to another notable effect higher education.  As those costs have increased, they have fallen upon families as employers have been unable to fully fit the cost themselves, and the government was unable to reign them in either.

On the other hand, we have tremendous ability to treat people and find cures that were not around all those years ago.

So who knows.
I don't know if in the 60s and 70s black boomers or boomers of color,  female boomers, LGBTQ boomers, and 18 to 40 year old male boomers drafted to fight in Vietnam would agree. Legal racism and sexism and discrimination were pretty rampant back then.

But those people don't matter, and exist only to serve the important ones: white men.

/s in case its not obvious.
Lol. True. Of course the upside to high inflation (at least in the 80s) was high interest rates for savers - assuming you could find a job.   

"What were CD rates in the 1980s?


On average, three-month CDs in early May 1981 paid about 18.3 percent APY, according to data from the St. Louis Federal Reserve."


"What year was unemployment the highest?
The unemployment rate has varied from as low as 1% during World War I to as high as 25% during the Great Depression. More recently, it reached notable peaks of 10.8% in November 1982 and 14.7% in April 2020."   

Guess we can't blame the millenials for the last one (pandemic) but old boomers that's on you! Or not.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2022, 05:10:35 PM by spartana »

PDXTabs

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Re: Sky-high inflation? Blame the millenials
« Reply #65 on: August 01, 2022, 05:53:56 PM »
The boomers were the last generation to benefit from a different quality of life.  The social contract has changed in America since then. 

Also, much of American life changed - most especially the cost of healthcare and to another notable effect higher education.  As those costs have increased, they have fallen upon families as employers have been unable to fully fit the cost themselves, and the government was unable to reign them in either.

On the other hand, we have tremendous ability to treat people and find cures that were not around all those years ago.

So who knows.
I don't know if in the 60s and 70s black boomers or boomers of color,  female boomers, LGBTQ boomers, and 18 to 40 year old male boomers drafted to fight in Vietnam would agree. Legal racism and sexism and discrimination were pretty rampant back then.

Maybe, but the US military was integrated in 1948, Brown v Board of Education was 1954, Loving v Virginia was 1967, and the Civil Rights Act was 1968 (well, one of them). The Nixon administration supported affirmative action and the Supreme court had not yet stepped in to limit it. Boomers of color got to live through a time where the rate of change was in the correct direction at least in terms of legal frameworks. People of color that I know personally went from poor farmers to middle class in one generation during that time-frame.

Also, women hadn't yet been pushed our of software by tech bros back then. Although to be fair that was because of sexism because software was women's work.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2022, 06:04:12 PM by PDXTabs »

GuitarStv

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Re: Sky-high inflation? Blame the millenials
« Reply #66 on: August 02, 2022, 07:24:38 AM »
The boomers were the last generation to benefit from a different quality of life.  The social contract has changed in America since then. 

Also, much of American life changed - most especially the cost of healthcare and to another notable effect higher education.  As those costs have increased, they have fallen upon families as employers have been unable to fully fit the cost themselves, and the government was unable to reign them in either.

On the other hand, we have tremendous ability to treat people and find cures that were not around all those years ago.

So who knows.
I don't know if in the 60s and 70s black boomers or boomers of color,  female boomers, LGBTQ boomers, and 18 to 40 year old male boomers drafted to fight in Vietnam would agree. Legal racism and sexism and discrimination were pretty rampant back then.

Maybe, but the US military was integrated in 1948, Brown v Board of Education was 1954, Loving v Virginia was 1967, and the Civil Rights Act was 1968 (well, one of them). The Nixon administration supported affirmative action and the Supreme court had not yet stepped in to limit it. Boomers of color got to live through a time where the rate of change was in the correct direction at least in terms of legal frameworks. People of color that I know personally went from poor farmers to middle class in one generation during that time-frame.

Also, women hadn't yet been pushed our of software by tech bros back then. Although to be fair that was because of sexism because software was women's work.

Things were certainly better than the 1900s, but I'm not sure they were quite as rosy as you're making out.

Sexism in the workplace was pretty rampant in the 70's.  Women were still relegated to effectively four careers - nurse, teacher, secretary, homemaker.  And that doesn't even mention the casual sexual harassment that was common place in any work environment.  Racism while hiring was the rule.  Black people simply didn't get into positions of power during this period.

Sure, Nixon supported voting rights . . . but not for the reason that you're implying.  It was part of the Republican's overtly racist Southern Strategy (which is still responsible for much of the racism that is so happily accepted by Republicans today).  As Nixon's political strategist said:
Quote
From now on, the Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote and they don't need any more than that... but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That's where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats.

And if you didn't support the establishment as an American in the 60s/70s you were actively attacked by the government.  Nixon authorized the CIA to infiltrate and radicalize protest groups (like the Weathermen), under the assumption that if these groups started bombing others they would lose popular support.  I mean, when the military wasn't murdering protests directly with zero legal consequences (Kent state?).

Not exactly a golden era.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2022, 07:31:07 AM by GuitarStv »

PDXTabs

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Re: Sky-high inflation? Blame the millenials
« Reply #67 on: August 02, 2022, 09:38:09 AM »
Sure, Nixon supported voting rights . . . but not for the reason that you're implying.  It was part of the Republican's overtly racist Southern Strategy (which is still responsible for much of the racism that is so happily accepted by Republicans today).  As Nixon's political strategist said:

I never wrote nor do I believe that Nixon supported voting rights. I wrote that he supported affirmative action and to "require federal contractors to show 'affirmative action' to meet the goals of increasing minority employment":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_the_United_States#Nixon_administration_(1969%E2%80%931974)
https://web.archive.org/web/20130531055048/http://www.acri.org/historical.html

Which is a far cry from Reagan and Trump.

Not exactly a golden era.

I never claimed that it was a golden era. There has never been a golden era in the USA for people who aren't white men with money and/or land. I personally doubt that there ever will be.

spartana

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Re: Sky-high inflation? Blame the millenials
« Reply #68 on: August 03, 2022, 08:51:54 AM »
The boomers were the last generation to benefit from a different quality of life.  The social contract has changed in America since then. 

Also, much of American life changed - most especially the cost of healthcare and to another notable effect higher education.  As those costs have increased, they have fallen upon families as employers have been unable to fully fit the cost themselves, and the government was unable to reign them in either.

On the other hand, we have tremendous ability to treat people and find cures that were not around all those years ago.

So who knows.
I don't know if in the 60s and 70s black boomers or boomers of color,  female boomers, LGBTQ boomers, and 18 to 40 year old male boomers drafted to fight in Vietnam would agree. Legal racism and sexism and discrimination were pretty rampant back then.

Maybe, but the US military was integrated in 1948, Brown v Board of Education was 1954, Loving v Virginia was 1967, and the Civil Rights Act was 1968 (well, one of them). The Nixon administration supported affirmative action and the Supreme court had not yet stepped in to limit it. Boomers of color got to live through a time where the rate of change was in the correct direction at least in terms of legal frameworks. People of color that I know personally went from poor farmers to middle class in one generation during that time-frame.

Also, women hadn't yet been pushed our of software by tech bros back then. Although to be fair that was because of sexism because software was women's work.
Nah women were just being denied the same job opportunities that all men had simply because they were women. And if they were allowed to be that profession, they often had a totally different pay scale. Was there even software jobs and tech bros in the 70s and early 80s? If so I imagine it would have been much worse for women then then now. Even "women's professions" like Dr. and teacher were limited to certain specialities like grade school and OB/GYN. Not a lot of cardiologists and neuroscience and engineering opportunities for women then. And let's not talk about blue collar jobs or safety professions like police or fire fighter etc. Even the military had limited job specialties for women , and most they they did have fit in with traditional "women" jobs like nurse or clerical. Not a lot of female fighter pilots and ship commanders/captains or platoon leaders etc..

Personally I'd take having to deal with a tech bro anytime compared to being one of the first female ships mechanics on one of the first military ships (and the only female in that crew) when they began allowing women onboard in the late 70s and early 80s. I'm not saying things are all rosy now but there are very different levels of suckage each generation had to deal with.

Regardless, at least women have many opportunities now that we're totally legally non-existent to them if the 70s, including getting things like credit without a male spouse (my parents divorced in the mid-1970s and my mom, with 3 young kids, couldn't get a CC in her name alone as a single working woman and before 1974 married women couldn't get any credit in their name alone) and even if things were legal on paper, it often didn't pan out that way. I'm sure for POC and and others had to deal with the same issues.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2022, 10:44:24 AM by spartana »