The Money Mustache Community
Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: sherr on December 19, 2018, 12:49:51 PM
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This is a continuation of the "Overheard at Work" thread that was getting unwieldy because it was over 400 pages long. If you want to read the archive of the old thread you can find it here:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/
So, what crazy things have you heard at work?
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Nothing today. I just want to be the second to post in the new thread. :)
Happy hump day!
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Ptf
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My department has undergone a lot of reorganization recently, and today there was a meeting with some brand-new leaders and the ~200 people under them, so the new leaders could introduce themselves.
One of them was talking about how his kids were older, college age, and that made Christmas a lot less fun because they get the same number of gifts as when they were little, but every gift is so expensive so he's shelling out thousands on his kids at Christmas.
Now, this was slightly tone-deaf because we all obviously make less than these guys, but we're all well-paid professionals. So it could've been worse, but like, your kids are adults! Set limits!
At least the other guy, the first guy's peer, followed up with "my kids are young, $20 goes a long way".
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Coworker has complained on a couple of occasions recently about how much money he is dropping on Christmas. His family is coming to visit and he has to buy gifts for aunts, uncles, their kids, etc., and take them all out to dinner. While purchasing all these gifts he bought a 75" flat screen to treat himself and he found a "great deal" on a pool table. Also, he just got back from Disneyland a couple weeks ago. I have no clue how much money he makes but that is an alarming spending rate.
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Coworker has complained on a couple of occasions recently about how much money he is dropping on Christmas. His family is coming to visit and he has to buy gifts for aunts, uncles, their kids, etc., and take them all out to dinner. While purchasing all these gifts he bought a 75" flat screen to treat himself and he found a "great deal" on a pool table. Also, he just got back from Disneyland a couple weeks ago. I have no clue how much money he makes but that is an alarming spending rate.
Cant you just give adults nothing or something small like a bottle of wine
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Geez, I'm getting my nieces, who are actual young children, pens and pencils for christmas.
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Posting to Follow. No stories since I'm retired. I do enjoy reading here and being glad I am retired.
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I don't have any really good stories since the one guy filed for bankruptcy and the hoarder retired. They cleared his office with a shovel, though.
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We recently had a long service awards ceremony at work. They celebrate 15 years and, I think, every 5 year increment after that. I couple people had been working there for 30 years. But one guy took the cake with 40 years of employment!!!! Strangely enough, he looks like he's in his 40s. Now, based on basic logic, he has to be at least pushing 60 but he looks quite young. I suspect he started at age 16 or so. I don't know him so I have no insight as to whether he is planning to pack it in anytime soon. We have a defined benefit pension plan and once you hit 30 years of service (I think) you max you. He could be getting 70% of his salary in the form of a pension if he stopped working.
I'm posting this here to mark the new thread but I'm not sure it's actually anti-mustachian. Some of the long-service people genuinely seem to enjoy being at work and very well may be SWAMIs or something akin to that.
But, geez, I sure plan to get out well before I hit the 30 year mark, let alone the 40 year mark!
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Shut it down
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DH got in a bit trouble at work for his gift exchange because the limit was $30 per gift and he only spent around $5 getting someone a thoughtful gift that he knew they would like...but still...it wasn’t “expensive” enough.
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DH got in a bit trouble at work for his gift exchange because the limit was $30 per gift and he only spent around $5 getting someone a thoughtful gift that he knew they would like...but still...it wasn’t “expensive” enough.
I did slightly the opposite this year. We had a Secret Santa with a $15 limit; I spent $23. The gift was the book "Wealthing Like Rabbits (Robert R Brown) - he figured out quickly who his Santa was. Told him he needed to read it but more importantly, get his teenage kids to read it. :)
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PTF. I work from home most of the time, so I don't get to hear "funny" stories at work. I'll live vicariously through you guys instead!
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Switching 401k providers means I’m hearing lots about people’s contribution percentages.
What the heck are these people doing? Gah.
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I don't have any really good stories since the one guy filed for bankruptcy and the hoarder retired. They cleared his office with a shovel, though.
I really need to hear more about this hoarder ex-coworker
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I don't have any really good stories since the one guy filed for bankruptcy and the hoarder retired. They cleared his office with a shovel, though.
I really need to hear more about this hoarder ex-coworker
College professor. I actually feel very sorry for him, then and now. The hoarding was almost 100% paper, enough they got an engineer in to be sure the weight in his second floor office hadn't done structural damage. He did virtually the same with his car, papers and garbage piled to the windows everywhere but the driver's seat, to the point it was wearing the tires from scraping the wheel wells on bumps. There really wasn't any comedy to it, nor shame since it was clearly illness. But he really doesn't have relatives so no one could do much to help. I've seen him a few times since and I think maybe the change and travelling some have helped. He seems a little happier and personal hygiene has improved. At least he saved enough to retire, though it is likely mostly due to our pension.
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My dept director told me today he pulled his entire 401k into cash/bonds in October, and moved all of his other investments into cash yesterday...
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I don't have any really good stories since the one guy filed for bankruptcy and the hoarder retired. They cleared his office with a shovel, though.
The hoarder actually makes me think of my office (Exaggeration of course, we aren't talking full on hoarder-level amounts of crap. But I like things neat and tidy, so that's how it felt to me). The office that I currently work in probably hadn't been purged in ~30 years. Yeah, the carpets got vacuumed and the surfaces got cleaned. But nobody ever got rid of old files, or old hardware. I was told what office I'd be working in, and instantly starting looking around at IT hardware from the 90s, textbooks from the 80s teaching people to code in FORTRAN, etc. One of the cabinets even had old HR paperwork from somebody who left the company over a decade ago, yet none of the previous occupants of this office noticed/cared enough to throw it out.
The first thing I did upon moving into the office was send out a company-wide e-mail saying that people had until the end of the week to remove anything they wanted, or it would all end up in a dumpster. And I mean first; I didn't even connect my laptop to the docking station first. Not surprisingly, the vast majority of the stuff ended up in the dumpster (Or recycled, as appropriate).
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PTF
Also, we usually get paid on the 25th of the month. However, since we are closed for 2 weeks for the holidays, we're getting paid tomorrow, the 21st. My coworker is furious as he now needs to make this month's pay last 4 days longer than usual.
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PTF
Also, we usually get paid on the 25th of the month. However, since we are closed for 2 weeks for the holidays, we're getting paid tomorrow, the 21st. My coworker is furious as he now needs to make this month's pay last 4 days longer than usual.
I wouldn't be able to stop myself from asking them 'why? did we add 4 days to the month'?
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My dept director told me today he pulled his entire 401k into cash/bonds in October, and moved all of his other investments into cash yesterday...
He got lucky in timing the top, let's see if he can call the bottom.
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Switching 401k providers means I’m hearing lots about people’s contribution percentages.
What the heck are these people doing? Gah.
I hear you, I'm on a project team changing our payroll provider. In reviewing our parallel biweekly pay results, I'm amazed at the number of 401K deductions of 10. [That's 10 dollars($) not 10 percent (%)]
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My dept director told me today he pulled his entire 401k into cash/bonds in October, and moved all of his other investments into cash yesterday...
He got lucky in timing the top, let's see if he can call the bottom.
I'd advise a nice even reinvestment along the way down for him. Lightning doesn't strike twice, and USD denominated bonds and cash are about to be the worst things you could have.
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My dept director told me today he pulled his entire 401k into cash/bonds in October, and moved all of his other investments into cash yesterday...
He got lucky in timing the top, let's see if he can call the bottom.
Bonds are bad when interest rates are rising. Since stocks are falling, cash may be a good short term option. Of course, calling the bottom is the trick.
I'd advise a nice even reinvestment along the way down for him. Lightning doesn't strike twice, and USD denominated bonds and cash are about to be the worst things you could have.
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PTF
Starting a job in January, maybe I can add some stories then.
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textbooks from the 80s teaching people to code in FORTRAN
Hey, I resemble that remark! I've been coding in FORTRAN at my current job since 2010. Every time we get new management, they say "Oh, we're going to rewrite that system in <trendy language of the day>". Then, after some discussion, they realize that no, they're not rewriting 20-million odd lines of FORTRAN anytime soon.
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My new supervisor and his wife moved to the area in July, been renting on a 1 year lease since then. They recently decided they don't like their landlord and just can't stand not having their own place. Wife only works part time and household income is somewhere between $130-150k. So in true anti-mustachian style they are now under contract on a $500k house using a VA loan and only putting down the required 20% of the amount above $484k. Not only will his payments be somewhere around $3500/mo, they have to continue paying their rent of $2000/mo until the landlord finds a new renter!!
The icing on the cake? He's less than a year away from being eligible for his pension and roughly 3-5 years from his "planned" retirement........
And they want to move away after retirement. That's putting a lot of faith in this bull housing market.
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ptf
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M5, that’s totally crazy.
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Hey, I resemble that remark! I've been coding in FORTRAN at my current job since 2010. Every time we get new management, they say "Oh, we're going to rewrite that system in <trendy language of the day>". Then, after some discussion, they realize that no, they're not rewriting 20-million odd lines of FORTRAN anytime soon.
Perhaps I should learn FORTRAN now that I'm considering FIREing. Having enough knowlege to charge a high consultancy fee could be a good way to put a little gold in my pocket in the future?
FORTRAN-FIRE?
(also, PTF).
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Hey, I resemble that remark! I've been coding in FORTRAN at my current job since 2010. Every time we get new management, they say "Oh, we're going to rewrite that system in <trendy language of the day>". Then, after some discussion, they realize that no, they're not rewriting 20-million odd lines of FORTRAN anytime soon.
Perhaps I should learn FORTRAN now that I'm considering FIREing. Having enough knowlege to charge a high consultancy fee could be a good way to put a little gold in my pocket in the future?
FORTRAN-FIRE?
(also, PTF).
You never know. They're trying to outsource it to India, but those people are all young, just out of school, and have no interest in FORTRAN. They had a 40% quit rate until this year, when they managed to bring it down to 20%.
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Not only will his payments be somewhere around $3500/mo,
Just this morning my father mentioned that his first teaching job paid $3500 per year. I said, "Nowadays some people have monthly mortgage payments that size" and immediately thought, "Well, probably not many people do."
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Not only will his payments be somewhere around $3500/mo,
Just this morning my father mentioned that his first teaching job paid $3500 per year. I said, "Nowadays some people have monthly mortgage payments that size" and immediately thought, "Well, probably not many people do."
Thank the fed and the policy of monetary base inflation for that.
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Coworker has complained on a couple of occasions recently about how much money he is dropping on Christmas. His family is coming to visit and he has to buy gifts for aunts, uncles, their kids, etc., and take them all out to dinner. While purchasing all these gifts he bought a 75" flat screen to treat himself and he found a "great deal" on a pool table. Also, he just got back from Disneyland a couple weeks ago. I have no clue how much money he makes but that is an alarming spending rate.
Cant you just give adults nothing or something small like a bottle of wine
Other than my parents and one cousin, we've managed a "no gifts for adults" agreement.
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Co-worker is a single mom (1 kid) and no siblings who lives with her boyfriend. Her father remarried and now has several step kids. Her dad told her this year he would only be buying a gift for her family instead of one for her, daughter and her boyfriend. This is because he has to buy gifts for all the step-kids/step-families. She is mad because she, boyfriend and daughter always buy individual gifts for him. She said they shouldn’t be penalized because the step family is bigger.
I said well maybe he really can’t afford it and isn’t it good if he sticks to a budget? She replied that if he really can’t afford it she would be ok with it. But that he could afford it because he just cashed out his retirement accounts. (I’m guessing her dad is about 60). And to further demonstrate that he could ‘afford it’ she said her dad just bought the step mom $500 diamond earrings. She already has a pair just like them. But those were bought by the step mom’s ex. So dad wants her to have new ones.
I wanted to say “your dad can’t afford any of this!”
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Posting to Follow. No stories since I'm retired. I do enjoy reading here and being glad I am retired.
Me, too.
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A colleague is about to have some pretty major work done on her home... walls knocked through to make all the downstairs rooms open plan, with folding doors. This will cost several thousand, particularly as some of the walls are load-bearing so will need joists (although a family member can do some of the work).
The kicker- she lives in social housing... it's not her house and she'll never own it...
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A colleague is about to have some pretty major work done on her home... walls knocked through to make all the downstairs rooms open plan, with folding doors. This will cost several thousand, particularly as some of the walls are load-bearing so will need joists (although a family member can do some of the work).
The kicker- she lives in social housing... it's not her house and she'll never own it...
Damn. If she's unlucky she could be paying to put it back in the original condition, too.
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A colleague is about to have some pretty major work done on her home... walls knocked through to make all the downstairs rooms open plan, with folding doors. This will cost several thousand, particularly as some of the walls are load-bearing so will need joists (although a family member can do some of the work).
The kicker- she lives in social housing... it's not her house and she'll never own it...
Damn. If she's unlucky she could be paying to put it back in the original condition, too.
That, and the housing authority might decide that if she has money for expensive renovations, maybe she shouldn't be getting social housing at all.
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Ptf
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Ptf
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We were chatting at work about 401k, and I said I was maxing out every year. My coworker said, "like 10%?" I said, no the full amount, $18000. Coworker looked utterly confused, like he had no idea what I was talking about. Luckily, I got called away at that moment.
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We were chatting at work about 401k, and I said I was maxing out every year. My coworker said, "like 10%?" I said, no the full amount, $18000. Coworker looked utterly confused, like he had no idea what I was talking about. Luckily, I got called away at that moment.
FYI, it was $18,500 in 2018 and will be $19,000 in 2019.
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TomTX beat me to it, still wish it was more. I know some gov workers can do a lot more, never really looked into why as I never expect to be one.
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TomTX beat me to it, still wish it was more. I know some gov workers can do a lot more, never really looked into why as I never expect to be one.
So, while most employer plans (401k, 403b, SIMPLE IRA, etc) "count" against the same per-person $19k limit, the 457 plan has its own separate $19k limit. Only government entities and nonprofits can offer the 457. Some of them will offer both types of plan, effectively allowing $38k in contributions.
The flip side is that salaries tend to be notably lower than private sector, so it's more difficult to take advantage of the extra space.
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We were chatting at work about 401k, and I said I was maxing out every year. My coworker said, "like 10%?" I said, no the full amount, $18000. Coworker looked utterly confused, like he had no idea what I was talking about. Luckily, I got called away at that moment.
FYI, it was $18,500 in 2018 and will be $19,000 in 2019.
When I was working I contributed the max (which was $24,000 because I was over 50) and unwisely mentioned it at one point...to which the confused looks on a few colleagues faces (who made 6 figures, which I didn't) was comical. They had never considered that anyone could actually contribute $2000 a month...where on earth would you find that huge amount in a paycheck? And who even knew that was legal? Humanly possible?
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PTF. Nothing to add as FIRE'd ;)
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Not a coworker but talking to someone I know about work. Friend quit his job to start a business. A year later, business is not started, no profit made yet. I hoping he is a closet MMM adherent. Last time we talked I completely blanked on the secret hand shakes, theme songs or moustache signals. Need more studying...
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TomTX beat me to it, still wish it was more. I know some gov workers can do a lot more, never really looked into why as I never expect to be one.
So, while most employer plans (401k, 403b, SIMPLE IRA, etc) "count" against the same per-person $19k limit, the 457 plan has its own separate $19k limit. Only government entities and nonprofits can offer the 457. Some of them will offer both types of plan, effectively allowing $38k in contributions.
The flip side is that salaries tend to be notably lower than private sector, so it's more difficult to take advantage of the extra space.
In some cases you can do even more. I get a 403b and 457 that I can contribute to unmatched, and a 401a that my employer automatically deducts 5% of my pay and deposits a 2 for 1 match of 10% into, but I cannot increase or decrease the 401a contributions, nor roll any other funds into it. So 38k plus 5% of my pay.
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The Fortran and hoarding references remind me of the Fortran class I took in college in 1996. The professor was a hoarder whose office was filled to the ceiling with stacks of papers and binders. He carved a small path from the door to the desk. Anyone visiting during office hours had to stand next to the seven-foot stacks of papers. By the way, it turns out while I'm really good at following instructions, I'm awful at writing instructions for a computer.
At work, the walls, which have been gray or off-white for a long time, are now being painted random colors. Some are now yellow, some are green, some are various shades of blue and red. One conference room is red and black, and it looks like the Twin Peaks dream sequences. It's as if the bosses looked at a color wheel and said "We'll take one of each."
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TomTX beat me to it, still wish it was more. I know some gov workers can do a lot more, never really looked into why as I never expect to be one.
So, while most employer plans (401k, 403b, SIMPLE IRA, etc) "count" against the same per-person $19k limit, the 457 plan has its own separate $19k limit. Only government entities and nonprofits can offer the 457. Some of them will offer both types of plan, effectively allowing $38k in contributions.
The flip side is that salaries tend to be notably lower than private sector, so it's more difficult to take advantage of the extra space.
In some cases you can do even more. I get a 403b and 457 that I can contribute to unmatched, and a 401a that my employer automatically deducts 5% of my pay and deposits a 2 for 1 match of 10% into, but I cannot increase or decrease the 401a contributions, nor roll any other funds into it. So 38k plus 5% of my pay.
Yes, for me it's ~10% of nominal salary going into the mandatory pension (matched, but only if I qualify for the pension and draw it, not if liquidated) - plus $38k of capacity between 401k and 457, unmatched.
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A colleague is about to have some pretty major work done on her home... walls knocked through to make all the downstairs rooms open plan, with folding doors. This will cost several thousand, particularly as some of the walls are load-bearing so will need joists (although a family member can do some of the work).
The kicker- she lives in social housing... it's not her house and she'll never own it...
Damn. If she's unlucky she could be paying to put it back in the original condition, too.
That, and the housing authority might decide that if she has money for expensive renovations, maybe she shouldn't be getting social housing at all.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing... she did get permission to do the work but insists she 'needs' a large three bedroom house with a huge garden for just her and her husband...
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I work with a lady who picks up coffee from Starbucks everyday. She has more than 10k on her credit card as she recently inherited that amount and paid her credit card with it. I am not saying stoping the Starbucks habit would make the differennce but she might come in happier. I’m scratching my head.
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Was talking to one of my coworkers and found out his commute is more than an hour and a half (one way)! I said that sounds awful, and he replied that it wasn't so bad, because he spends most of it on the train and can "get some extra work done" (in addition to the 8-9 hours he spends in the office). Someone's institutionalized...
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Train commute is not as bad as a driving commute.
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I work with a lady who picks up coffee from Starbucks everyday. She has more than 10k on her credit card as she recently inherited that amount and paid her credit card with it. I am not saying stoping the Starbucks habit would make the differennce but she might come in happier. I’m scratching my head.
Get back with us on a year or so and tell us if she is right back in debt.
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textbooks from the 80s teaching people to code in FORTRAN
Hey, I resemble that remark! I've been coding in FORTRAN at my current job since 2010. Every time we get new management, they say "Oh, we're going to rewrite that system in <trendy language of the day>". Then, after some discussion, they realize that no, they're not rewriting 20-million odd lines of FORTRAN anytime soon.
Yeah, fair enough. FORTRAN is a useful skill in some contexts. All depends on the needs of the job. I actually learned FORTRAN in 2009, despite it being a rarely used skill at that point, because I needed to add code to a certain FORTRAN-based program to finish grad school. I make the remark because I'm the only person in this company who does any coding, and I sure haven't touched FORTRAN since 2009. It's a pretty useless skill around here, and my co-workers still wanted to hold onto that book. For God knows what weird reason.
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I'm trying to make myself get rid of some PERL and general programming books I acquired around 2007. I don't think donating them will work. I need to just toss them. I don't program anymore as I'm retired.
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textbooks from the 80s teaching people to code in FORTRAN
Hey, I resemble that remark! I've been coding in FORTRAN at my current job since 2010. Every time we get new management, they say "Oh, we're going to rewrite that system in <trendy language of the day>". Then, after some discussion, they realize that no, they're not rewriting 20-million odd lines of FORTRAN anytime soon.
Yeah, fair enough. FORTRAN is a useful skill in some contexts. All depends on the needs of the job. I actually learned FORTRAN in 2009, despite it being a rarely used skill at that point, because I needed to add code to a certain FORTRAN-based program to finish grad school. I make the remark because I'm the only person in this company who does any coding, and I sure haven't touched FORTRAN since 2009. It's a pretty useless skill around here, and my co-workers still wanted to hold onto that book. For God knows what weird reason.
Yeah, the books are totally unnecessary at this point. There are multiple websites with full manuals, coding samples, and Q&A about various algorithms.
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Train commute is not as bad as a driving commute.
I agree but not sure on the ratio. Would you rather have a 1 hour train commute or 30 minute drive?
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Train commute is not as bad as a driving commute.
I agree but not sure on the ratio. Would you rather have a 1 hour train commute or 30 minute drive?
I'd love a train commute!
I've currently got the option of:
- an early start and a 40 min stressful inner city drive, then a 20 min walk (from where there's free parking if you're early enough, otherwise similar drive but £12/day parking - lol, nope, that's an hour's wages after tax)
Pros: being in your own car is nice, with no other people! Cons: v early start required, and I found the inner city drive and hoping for parking really quite stressful, I noticed I was wound up when arriving at work.
- a 40 min bus ride then a 20 min walk across town, bus is more expensive than driving and is unpleasant, the town walk is not very nice. A slightly more expensive option would be to get a connecting bus for a 10 minutes ride e.g. if raining heavily, but I've not done this.
I started off doing this option, but the buses on this route are old and crappy, infrequent and sometimes just don't turn up on the way home for a hour or two.
I thought this would be a nice relaxing option, as it doesn't require anything from me, but it's actually a horrible clunky journey that makes me feel sick, with a crap walk at the other end. I gave up on this after it took me 2.5 hours to get home one day when there was nothing wrong, just the buses being crap. Can't tolerate the uncertainty of when I'm going to get home.
- Current choice is an easy 15 min drive (5 mins of which is on a motorway), to a Park and Ride, then a nice modern, frequent P&R bus to right outside my office that's half an hour. Less than half the price of the bus.
They're supposed to be reopening/building a train line which would be amazing - a 15 min stroll from my house, 15 min ride, then a 10 minute walk, but frustratingly they're not getting this done quickly/at all.
Fortunately I can now work from home 2 days per week on average, which makes the commute manageable!
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Guess this is as good a place as any to post this - office greed in the form of a not-so-secret Santa recipient:
https://ca.style.yahoo.com/naughty-nice-woman-goes-viral-asking-secret-santa-colleague-buy-kids-70-tablet-135432482.html
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ptf (there will be a couple pages of this new thread devoted to ptf!)
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Guess this is as good a place as any to post this - office greed in the form of a not-so-secret Santa recipient:
https://ca.style.yahoo.com/naughty-nice-woman-goes-viral-asking-secret-santa-colleague-buy-kids-70-tablet-135432482.html
Wow. Simply wow.
The first request would have been met with a "No!"
If there was a second request, it would have been "I'll be posting screen shots of this conversation at work as a gift to all our colleagues. I won't be removing the names from the screen shots. Have a Merry Christmas!"
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Was talking to one of my coworkers and found out his commute is more than an hour and a half (one way)! I said that sounds awful, and he replied that it wasn't so bad, because he spends most of it on the train and can "get some extra work done" (in addition to the 8-9 hours he spends in the office). Someone's institutionalized...
My train-commuter bus commute is 2h one-way . It's not so bad, since I'm not the one driving. Bus has WiFi, so I can get some work or homework done. Or just catch up on sleep. When I first started at this job, I had to do it every weekday, and it was awful. Now I work from home at least 2 days a week, and it's much more manageable.
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Guess this is as good a place as any to post this - office greed in the form of a not-so-secret Santa recipient:
https://ca.style.yahoo.com/naughty-nice-woman-goes-viral-asking-secret-santa-colleague-buy-kids-70-tablet-135432482.html
There are some goddamn crazy people around. I don't even know what connections would have to be loose in the upstairs in order to think that way.
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Hey, I resemble that remark! I've been coding in FORTRAN at my current job since 2010. Every time we get new management, they say "Oh, we're going to rewrite that system in <trendy language of the day>". Then, after some discussion, they realize that no, they're not rewriting 20-million odd lines of FORTRAN anytime soon.
Perhaps I should learn FORTRAN now that I'm considering FIREing. Having enough knowlege to charge a high consultancy fee could be a good way to put a little gold in my pocket in the future?
FORTRAN-FIRE?
(also, PTF).
Actually, I know a guy who did exactly that. He was the last guy on the team that knew the ancient computer system well enough to do maintenance and fix problems. He retired and they now hire him back as a consultant whenever they have issues (for $$$, I assume). They were going to replace the system 10 years ago, which is why they never bothered to train someone else, but the new system never happened.
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Guess this is as good a place as any to post this - office greed in the form of a not-so-secret Santa recipient:
https://ca.style.yahoo.com/naughty-nice-woman-goes-viral-asking-secret-santa-colleague-buy-kids-70-tablet-135432482.html
Wow. Simply wow.
The first request would have been met with a "No!"
If there was a second request, it would have been "I'll be posting screen shots of this conversation at work as a gift to all our colleagues. I won't be removing the names from the screen shots. Have a Merry Christmas!"
New phone who dis?
I prefer to read the actual reddit post rather than a yahoo “article” summarizing the images and top comments
https://www.reddit.com/r/ChoosingBeggars/comments/a6irjn/honestly_didnt_believe_people_like_this_actually/?st=JQC38YXS&sh=eeb0e2bb
Ps it turned out to be fake but was hilarious nonetheless
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Guess this is as good a place as any to post this - office greed in the form of a not-so-secret Santa recipient:
https://ca.style.yahoo.com/naughty-nice-woman-goes-viral-asking-secret-santa-colleague-buy-kids-70-tablet-135432482.html
Wow. Simply wow.
The first request would have been met with a "No!"
If there was a second request, it would have been "I'll be posting screen shots of this conversation at work as a gift to all our colleagues. I won't be removing the names from the screen shots. Have a Merry Christmas!"
New phone who dis?
I prefer to read the actual reddit post rather than a yahoo “article” summarizing the images and top comments
https://www.reddit.com/r/ChoosingBeggars/comments/a6irjn/honestly_didnt_believe_people_like_this_actually/?st=JQC38YXS&sh=eeb0e2bb
Ps it turned out to be fake but was hilarious nonetheless
Ahaha ... sucked into a yahoo post ... but I am happy to have amused you. Dragoncar - I am missing your old signature line with the porn on your blender quote. I should've bookmarked it.
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Guess this is as good a place as any to post this - office greed in the form of a not-so-secret Santa recipient:
https://ca.style.yahoo.com/naughty-nice-woman-goes-viral-asking-secret-santa-colleague-buy-kids-70-tablet-135432482.html
Wow. Simply wow.
The first request would have been met with a "No!"
If there was a second request, it would have been "I'll be posting screen shots of this conversation at work as a gift to all our colleagues. I won't be removing the names from the screen shots. Have a Merry Christmas!"
New phone who dis?
I prefer to read the actual reddit post rather than a yahoo “article” summarizing the images and top comments
https://www.reddit.com/r/ChoosingBeggars/comments/a6irjn/honestly_didnt_believe_people_like_this_actually/?st=JQC38YXS&sh=eeb0e2bb
Ps it turned out to be fake but was hilarious nonetheless
Wow, I'm extremely glad to see you say it was fake. When I read through that story and thought it was true...My desire to be a human temporarily plummeted.
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Wow, I'm extremely glad to see you say it was fake. When I read through that story and thought it was true...My desire to be a human temporarily plummeted.
Well some reddit “investigators” turned up another post from the OP indicating he was still in school and looking for a job then he deleted his account so... probably fake but unfortunately believable.
Ahaha ... sucked into a yahoo post ... but I am happy to have amused you. Dragoncar - I am missing your old signature line with the porn on your blender quote. I should've bookmarked it.
Im really trying to remember which sig you are referring to. Porn on a blender? Sounds like something I’d say.
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Something about your toaster getting hacked because you tried to watch porn on your blender. Right?
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After literally years of lurking, I have a post.
My husband and I both work full time. We have toddler twins. Coworker has 3 kids under the age of 7. Wife is SAHM. Coworker mentions that after work he's exhausted and wife is too after caring for kids. He mentions that by the time he comes home and they fix dinner and clean up, he doesn't have a lot of time to spend with them. I commiserate with him and mention we had the same issue. I was able to carve out an extra half hour or so a day by switching to paper plates (we are renting - dishwasher is anemic and kitchen has no garbage disposal - thus we have to go through Olympic effort dishwashing everyday - turns out so do they). When the kids get a little older (able to do some chores to help) we will switch back to regular dishes. We have spent maybe... $80 on paper plates in a year in order to get back 30 minutes of quality time A DAY with our kids.
He basically tells me that they can't afford papers plates (90 for about $2 - $3 - lasts for 2-3 weeks) because they are a single income household.
He drives a BMW 500 something. She drives a BMW X5. o_0
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Something about your toaster getting hacked because you tried to watch porn on your blender. Right?
I don’t think it was in my sig. maybe this post from another thread that we shall never speak of again: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/msg1314732/#msg1314732
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Posting to follow, as the original Overheard at Work thread was (is) one of my favorites.
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We have free coffee at work. Every break room has a coffee maker that the hospital provides and keeps stocked with different types of coffee, creamer sugar etc.
Recently an outside company put a little "market" where you create an account and pay by scanning your finger print. Coffee is is $1.50 a cup. So I see all my coworkers lining up to buy this coffee and like an idiot I ask them why they're paying for coffee when it's supplied free. Answer: "because it's only a $1.50!".
Why drink coffee for free when you can pay "only" a $1.50 for it, right?
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After literally years of lurking, I have a post.
My husband and I both work full time. We have toddler twins. Coworker has 3 kids under the age of 7. Wife is SAHM. Coworker mentions that after work he's exhausted and wife is too after caring for kids. He mentions that by the time he comes home and they fix dinner and clean up, he doesn't have a lot of time to spend with them. I commiserate with him and mention we had the same issue. I was able to carve out an extra half hour or so a day by switching to paper plates (we are renting - dishwasher is anemic and kitchen has no garbage disposal - thus we have to go through Olympic effort dishwashing everyday - turns out so do they). When the kids get a little older (able to do some chores to help) we will switch back to regular dishes. We have spent maybe... $80 on paper plates in a year in order to get back 30 minutes of quality time A DAY with our kids.
He basically tells me that they can't afford papers plates (90 for about $2 - $3 - lasts for 2-3 weeks) because they are a single income household.
He drives a BMW 500 something. She drives a BMW X5. o_0
So self imposed poverty... That's fun.
People's sense of expensive can be so odd. Sometimes the luxury items are a must at all costs. Sometimes $10 is too much without luxury items.
I remember a coworker who came to me (I'm a shadetree mechanic as well as an engineer) about his broken headlight. I said, no sweat. You have an older car that is common. Look here on eBay - there is a good used headlight for ~$10-$15. Nope. He was looking for the 10 cent solution like wrapping the headlight in Saran Wrap or gluing a piece of plexiglass over the headlight. Why? The headlight would not likely stay waterproof, the bulb would burn out frequently (rain water), the beam might not be focused, etc. He wasn't being frugal, he was being cheap.
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After literally years of lurking, I have a post.
My husband and I both work full time. We have toddler twins. Coworker has 3 kids under the age of 7. Wife is SAHM. Coworker mentions that after work he's exhausted and wife is too after caring for kids. He mentions that by the time he comes home and they fix dinner and clean up, he doesn't have a lot of time to spend with them. I commiserate with him and mention we had the same issue. I was able to carve out an extra half hour or so a day by switching to paper plates (we are renting - dishwasher is anemic and kitchen has no garbage disposal - thus we have to go through Olympic effort dishwashing everyday - turns out so do they). When the kids get a little older (able to do some chores to help) we will switch back to regular dishes. We have spent maybe... $80 on paper plates in a year in order to get back 30 minutes of quality time A DAY with our kids.
He basically tells me that they can't afford papers plates (90 for about $2 - $3 - lasts for 2-3 weeks) because they are a single income household.
He drives a BMW 500 something. She drives a BMW X5. o_0
So self imposed poverty... That's fun.
People's sense of expensive can be so odd. Sometimes the luxury items are a must at all costs. Sometimes $10 is too much without luxury items.
I remember a coworker who came to me (I'm a shadetree mechanic as well as an engineer) about his broken headlight. I said, no sweat. You have an older car that is common. Look here on eBay - there is a good used headlight for ~$10-$15. Nope. He was looking for the 10 cent solution like wrapping the headlight in Saran Wrap or gluing a piece of plexiglass over the headlight. Why? The headlight would not likely stay waterproof, the bulb would burn out frequently (rain water), the beam might not be focused, etc. He wasn't being frugal, he was being cheap.
"self imposed poverty" - that perfectly describes so many of my past and current coworkers.
Sadly, I know so many other coworkers who suffer from this. Ten years ago, I worked with a woman who had 2 daughters and a borderline abusive husband. DD1 was the child of a former spouse that she brought into the marriage with the borderline abusive husband. DD2 was his child. They lived in a beautiful house on the water in a "prestigious" East Coast town, but her commute to work was 80 miles round trip.
She drove a relatively new BMW 300 something, very nice suits, hair always done, full court press makeup, nails, Tiffany jewelry - even eyelash extensions... EVERYDAY...
Now, I am all for someone taking good care of themselves and wanting to look their best at all times... Right up until she came to my desk and asked me to help figure out how to pay for DD1 to go to college.
DD1 had decided that no matter what it took, she was getting as far away as possible from her step-dad and had her heart set on going to college in California, specifically in San Bernardino. DD1 had figured out if she went to San Bernardino Community College, after 2 years she could transfer to CSUSB, which I thought sounded great... right up until.....
Her mother presented me with several loan documents from different banks and asked me to help her figure out which one DD1 should apply for to get the best terms. After ascertaining that CW had not saved a single dime to send DD1 to college and had no interest in a PLUS loan (don't blame her), I reviewed the loan documents and was astounded to discover that out of state tuition for SBCC cost 4 to 5 times what in state (where CW lived) would cost (This was in 2007, I think..).
I asked her to seriously consider convincing DD1 to go in state, but due to the horrible behavior of the step-dad, DD1 would have none of it. So I then asked CW, is there something you can sell to pay for the first semester? The longer DD1 can put off taking out a loan, the better. CW had also expressed to me that she wasn't sure DD1 would make it through SBCC because DD1 had done poorly in high school, but wanted to give DD1 a chance "away from her step-dad". (CW also confessed she knew her husband had treated DD1 badly, and so wanted to support DD1's wish to go to SBCC).
Anyway, CW (wearing her Tiffany jewelry with salon eyelash extensions, and professionally manicured nails) replied she had nothing she could sell to offset the cost of the first semester. I gently mentioned the BMW, and explained she could sell the BMW and probably get enough $ for at least the first semester at SBCC and see if DD1 could hack it before DD1 had to take out any loans. I mentioned that CW could purchase a small Toyota or Honda for a minimal amount and would actually be a better car for such a long commute.
At this point, CW crossed her legs, locked her arms around her chest, leaned back in the chair away from me and outright refused to part with her BMW. So I advised her which loan her DD1 should take out (at just under 6% interest).
Fast forward a few months, DD1 graduates from highschool and CW buys DD1 a graduation gift: a Louis Vuitton purse ($1,000) and a pair of Uggs... "It's the least I can do and this way she'll fit in at SBCC".
0_o
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PTF, no good stories right now but don't want to miss out on the fun.
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After literally years of lurking, I have a post.
My husband and I both work full time. We have toddler twins. Coworker has 3 kids under the age of 7. Wife is SAHM. Coworker mentions that after work he's exhausted and wife is too after caring for kids. He mentions that by the time he comes home and they fix dinner and clean up, he doesn't have a lot of time to spend with them. I commiserate with him and mention we had the same issue. I was able to carve out an extra half hour or so a day by switching to paper plates (we are renting - dishwasher is anemic and kitchen has no garbage disposal - thus we have to go through Olympic effort dishwashing everyday - turns out so do they). When the kids get a little older (able to do some chores to help) we will switch back to regular dishes. We have spent maybe... $80 on paper plates in a year in order to get back 30 minutes of quality time A DAY with our kids.
He basically tells me that they can't afford papers plates (90 for about $2 - $3 - lasts for 2-3 weeks) because they are a single income household.
He drives a BMW 500 something. She drives a BMW X5. o_0
Normally I find it very unMustachian when people use paper dishes for daily use. But I do understand it in your case.
We have a cabin without running water and therefore no dishwater. It is indeed time consuming and not so motivating to wash dishes by hand. We do it when we are there, because then we have the time to do so. But I remember a period when we had to do some hard work (digging drainage) all day and I even bought half fabricated food for dinner that could be prepared really fast. If you have a busy day, spending a lot of time on cooking and on dishwashing leaves little time for other things.
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After literally years of lurking, I have a post.
My husband and I both work full time. We have toddler twins. Coworker has 3 kids under the age of 7. Wife is SAHM. Coworker mentions that after work he's exhausted and wife is too after caring for kids. He mentions that by the time he comes home and they fix dinner and clean up, he doesn't have a lot of time to spend with them. I commiserate with him and mention we had the same issue. I was able to carve out an extra half hour or so a day by switching to paper plates (we are renting - dishwasher is anemic and kitchen has no garbage disposal - thus we have to go through Olympic effort dishwashing everyday - turns out so do they). When the kids get a little older (able to do some chores to help) we will switch back to regular dishes. We have spent maybe... $80 on paper plates in a year in order to get back 30 minutes of quality time A DAY with our kids.
He basically tells me that they can't afford papers plates (90 for about $2 - $3 - lasts for 2-3 weeks) because they are a single income household.
He drives a BMW 500 something. She drives a BMW X5. o_0
Normally I find it very unMustachian when people use paper dishes for daily use. But I do understand it in your case.
We have a cabin without running water and therefore no dishwater. It is indeed time consuming and not so motivating to wash dishes by hand. We do it when we are there, because then we have the time to do so. But I remember a period when we had to do some hard work (digging drainage) all day and I even bought half fabricated food for dinner that could be prepared really fast. If you have a busy day, spending a lot of time on cooking and on dishwashing leaves little time for other things.
Agreed. However, we had reached a point with the dishwasher that unless we basically washed 99% of the food residue off, the dishwasher wasn't going to get it clean. We ended up several times just running the dishwasher twice to clean one set of dishes. So we were cleaning one set of dirty dishes sometimes 3x just to get them clean.... Complaints to the landlord fell on deaf ears. As far as LL was concerned, dishwasher runs, what's the problem? I guess cleanliness is a judgement call? Et voila, paper plates...
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After literally years of lurking, I have a post.
My husband and I both work full time. We have toddler twins. Coworker has 3 kids under the age of 7. Wife is SAHM. Coworker mentions that after work he's exhausted and wife is too after caring for kids. He mentions that by the time he comes home and they fix dinner and clean up, he doesn't have a lot of time to spend with them. I commiserate with him and mention we had the same issue. I was able to carve out an extra half hour or so a day by switching to paper plates (we are renting - dishwasher is anemic and kitchen has no garbage disposal - thus we have to go through Olympic effort dishwashing everyday - turns out so do they). When the kids get a little older (able to do some chores to help) we will switch back to regular dishes. We have spent maybe... $80 on paper plates in a year in order to get back 30 minutes of quality time A DAY with our kids.
He basically tells me that they can't afford papers plates (90 for about $2 - $3 - lasts for 2-3 weeks) because they are a single income household.
He drives a BMW 500 something. She drives a BMW X5. o_0
So self imposed poverty... That's fun.
People's sense of expensive can be so odd. Sometimes the luxury items are a must at all costs. Sometimes $10 is too much without luxury items.
I remember a coworker who came to me (I'm a shadetree mechanic as well as an engineer) about his broken headlight. I said, no sweat. You have an older car that is common. Look here on eBay - there is a good used headlight for ~$10-$15. Nope. He was looking for the 10 cent solution like wrapping the headlight in Saran Wrap or gluing a piece of plexiglass over the headlight. Why? The headlight would not likely stay waterproof, the bulb would burn out frequently (rain water), the beam might not be focused, etc. He wasn't being frugal, he was being cheap.
"self imposed poverty" - that perfectly describes so many of my past and current coworkers.
Sadly, I know so many other coworkers who suffer from this. Ten years ago, I worked with a woman who had 2 daughters and a borderline abusive husband. DD1 was the child of a former spouse that she brought into the marriage with the borderline abusive husband. DD2 was his child. They lived in a beautiful house on the water in a "prestigious" East Coast town, but her commute to work was 80 miles round trip.
She drove a relatively new BMW 300 something, very nice suits, hair always done, full court press makeup, nails, Tiffany jewelry - even eyelash extensions... EVERYDAY...
Now, I am all for someone taking good care of themselves and wanting to look their best at all times... Right up until she came to my desk and asked me to help figure out how to pay for DD1 to go to college.
DD1 had decided that no matter what it took, she was getting as far away as possible from her step-dad and had her heart set on going to college in California, specifically in San Bernardino. DD1 had figured out if she went to San Bernardino Community College, after 2 years she could transfer to CSUSB, which I thought sounded great... right up until.....
Her mother presented me with several loan documents from different banks and asked me to help her figure out which one DD1 should apply for to get the best terms. After ascertaining that CW had not saved a single dime to send DD1 to college and had no interest in a PLUS loan (don't blame her), I reviewed the loan documents and was astounded to discover that out of state tuition for SBCC cost 4 to 5 times what in state (where CW lived) would cost (This was in 2007, I think..).
I asked her to seriously consider convincing DD1 to go in state, but due to the horrible behavior of the step-dad, DD1 would have none of it. So I then asked CW, is there something you can sell to pay for the first semester? The longer DD1 can put off taking out a loan, the better. CW had also expressed to me that she wasn't sure DD1 would make it through SBCC because DD1 had done poorly in high school, but wanted to give DD1 a chance "away from her step-dad". (CW also confessed she knew her husband had treated DD1 badly, and so wanted to support DD1's wish to go to SBCC).
Anyway, CW (wearing her Tiffany jewelry with salon eyelash extensions, and professionally manicured nails) replied she had nothing she could sell to offset the cost of the first semester. I gently mentioned the BMW, and explained she could sell the BMW and probably get enough $ for at least the first semester at SBCC and see if DD1 could hack it before DD1 had to take out any loans. I mentioned that CW could purchase a small Toyota or Honda for a minimal amount and would actually be a better car for such a long commute.
At this point, CW crossed her legs, locked her arms around her chest, leaned back in the chair away from me and outright refused to part with her BMW. So I advised her which loan her DD1 should take out (at just under 6% interest).
Fast forward a few months, DD1 graduates from highschool and CW buys DD1 a graduation gift: a Louis Vuitton purse ($1,000) and a pair of Uggs... "It's the least I can do and this way she'll fit in at SBCC".
0_o
Too many disastrous things in this post to determine which is the most alarming - the abusive relationship, the $0 saved for college, the graduation gift, the inability to compromise or sacrifice, the high maintenance routine....
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Happy New Year and YAY for the new thread!
I work in financial services, and my company is a 401K provider to many other companies. We have great benefits, and lots of little perks that no one but me seems to be aware of.
One of those perks is that the first contribution to your 401K every year, you get your match PLUS a flat $250. I am tickled pink by this perk, and I do check in after the first paycheck of the year, to make sure the extra $250 posted. Last year, I mentioned it to a co-worker, who like so many others, had no idea. We both checked out accounts, confirmed the extra funds, and started to chat about the other nice perks that come with that first paycheck, like the $1K to the HSA, plus an extra $300 if you completed the bloodwork test a few months prior and achieved a "passing" grade. Co-worker doesn't even try for that extra $300, b/c he's overweight and doesn't think he'll get it. OK, your loss. I happened to mention that when I had received my last promotion, I didn't want a penny of that money going to the tax man, so I increased my 401K contribution just as the raise hit my paycheck, which brought my contribution up to 12% (I don't max this out, yet). Co-worker was SHOCKED that I contribute that much $$ to my 401K, as he could never afford to do so. He's older than I, makes considerably more, and last year, when buying a modest home, he had to borrow the down payment from his 401K. I didn't bother to tell him that between the HSA I max out, and the ESPP I also max out, more than half of my paycheck never makes it to my checking account, and I still save $$ from that amount! He's a great guy, but he's got a ton of family members taking advantage of him, and he lets them bleed him dry.
The other think to note is that we just moved to a brand new campus, and among the many amenities we have here, we have an actual Starbucks onsite. There are at least three break rooms on each floor, all of which offer adequate free coffee, multiple options, along with assorted teas, hot chocolate, and every single type of sweetener and creamer. The amount of employees who will buy Starbucks multiple times/day is insane and baffling to me! Most used excuse? Oh, the coffee in the break rooms suck. The employer recently switched to a more expensive option, but according to these folks, it still sucks. I usually drink coffee at home before work, but the few times I've tried the break room coffee, it's actually pretty good! It just pains me, as our company tagline is very clear about saving for a better tomorrow, and so many people here don't get all the ways they could take advantage of all the perks to get there faster.
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We got an email at work reminding us that the 401(k) limit had been raised to $19k. People were talking about it at lunch, and I mentioned casually that you can also put an extra $6k in your personal Roth. Oh, and your spouse can do the same.
There was a beat, during which everyone realized (and I realized too) that I was making a cynical joke. Because, you know, how could two people with professional careers possibly save $50k.
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After literally years of lurking, I have a post.
My husband and I both work full time. We have toddler twins. Coworker has 3 kids under the age of 7. Wife is SAHM. Coworker mentions that after work he's exhausted and wife is too after caring for kids. He mentions that by the time he comes home and they fix dinner and clean up, he doesn't have a lot of time to spend with them. I commiserate with him and mention we had the same issue. I was able to carve out an extra half hour or so a day by switching to paper plates (we are renting - dishwasher is anemic and kitchen has no garbage disposal - thus we have to go through Olympic effort dishwashing everyday - turns out so do they). When the kids get a little older (able to do some chores to help) we will switch back to regular dishes. We have spent maybe... $80 on paper plates in a year in order to get back 30 minutes of quality time A DAY with our kids.
He basically tells me that they can't afford papers plates (90 for about $2 - $3 - lasts for 2-3 weeks) because they are a single income household.
He drives a BMW 500 something. She drives a BMW X5. o_0
So self imposed poverty... That's fun.
People's sense of expensive can be so odd. Sometimes the luxury items are a must at all costs. Sometimes $10 is too much without luxury items.
I remember a coworker who came to me (I'm a shadetree mechanic as well as an engineer) about his broken headlight. I said, no sweat. You have an older car that is common. Look here on eBay - there is a good used headlight for ~$10-$15. Nope. He was looking for the 10 cent solution like wrapping the headlight in Saran Wrap or gluing a piece of plexiglass over the headlight. Why? The headlight would not likely stay waterproof, the bulb would burn out frequently (rain water), the beam might not be focused, etc. He wasn't being frugal, he was being cheap.
"self imposed poverty" - that perfectly describes so many of my past and current coworkers.
Sadly, I know so many other coworkers who suffer from this. Ten years ago, I worked with a woman who had 2 daughters and a borderline abusive husband. DD1 was the child of a former spouse that she brought into the marriage with the borderline abusive husband. DD2 was his child. They lived in a beautiful house on the water in a "prestigious" East Coast town, but her commute to work was 80 miles round trip.
She drove a relatively new BMW 300 something, very nice suits, hair always done, full court press makeup, nails, Tiffany jewelry - even eyelash extensions... EVERYDAY...
Now, I am all for someone taking good care of themselves and wanting to look their best at all times... Right up until she came to my desk and asked me to help figure out how to pay for DD1 to go to college.
DD1 had decided that no matter what it took, she was getting as far away as possible from her step-dad and had her heart set on going to college in California, specifically in San Bernardino. DD1 had figured out if she went to San Bernardino Community College, after 2 years she could transfer to CSUSB, which I thought sounded great... right up until.....
Her mother presented me with several loan documents from different banks and asked me to help her figure out which one DD1 should apply for to get the best terms. After ascertaining that CW had not saved a single dime to send DD1 to college and had no interest in a PLUS loan (don't blame her), I reviewed the loan documents and was astounded to discover that out of state tuition for SBCC cost 4 to 5 times what in state (where CW lived) would cost (This was in 2007, I think..).
I asked her to seriously consider convincing DD1 to go in state, but due to the horrible behavior of the step-dad, DD1 would have none of it. So I then asked CW, is there something you can sell to pay for the first semester? The longer DD1 can put off taking out a loan, the better. CW had also expressed to me that she wasn't sure DD1 would make it through SBCC because DD1 had done poorly in high school, but wanted to give DD1 a chance "away from her step-dad". (CW also confessed she knew her husband had treated DD1 badly, and so wanted to support DD1's wish to go to SBCC).
Anyway, CW (wearing her Tiffany jewelry with salon eyelash extensions, and professionally manicured nails) replied she had nothing she could sell to offset the cost of the first semester. I gently mentioned the BMW, and explained she could sell the BMW and probably get enough $ for at least the first semester at SBCC and see if DD1 could hack it before DD1 had to take out any loans. I mentioned that CW could purchase a small Toyota or Honda for a minimal amount and would actually be a better car for such a long commute.
At this point, CW crossed her legs, locked her arms around her chest, leaned back in the chair away from me and outright refused to part with her BMW. So I advised her which loan her DD1 should take out (at just under 6% interest).
Fast forward a few months, DD1 graduates from highschool and CW buys DD1 a graduation gift: a Louis Vuitton purse ($1,000) and a pair of Uggs... "It's the least I can do and this way she'll fit in at SBCC".
0_o
Too many disastrous things in this post to determine which is the most alarming - the abusive relationship, the $0 saved for college, the graduation gift, the inability to compromise or sacrifice, the high maintenance routine....
As a final follow up.... When I first met CW, she was trying to get a promotion at work that would move her to Colorado, at which point, she planned to divorce her husband and take the girls. (I am uncertain if she could have just done that with DD2, although she could have with DD1.) The promotion never came through, so she didn't leave him. Over the course of the first six months of getting to know her she described her life with him:
1) he kept a freezer in the basement full of HIS food, locked with a padlock, (but when guests would come over, the lock would mysteriously disappear)
2) he purchased a new state of the art washer dryer set and had them installed upstairs in a laundry closet next to the master bedroom... For HIS clothes only. CW and the girls had to use the old washer dryer in the basement
3) he would go on work trips and bring home a gift for CW and DD2, but not DD1 (who was 1 year old when CW married him and thus knew no other father figure - I understand bio-dad was and is a no show)
4) taught DD2 to drive in his car but would not do so for DD1
5) sometimes in the morning, the phone on her desk would start to ring and ring. When we answered it, the caller always hung up. Turns out, he would call her on her cell phone as she drove into work. When CW pulled into the underground garage and lost signal, he would count down 5 minutes and start calling her desk. If she didn't answer it by the time the 5 minutes were up, he'd scream at her asking where she had been since it didn't take 5 minutes to walk from the garage to her desk...
And the list goes on and on...
For the life of me, I can't understand why she stayed with him since he treated DD1 like a shifty renter as opposed to a baby girl who grew up with him as her dad. At the time, CW made a fairly good salary - upwards of $60k a year - easily enough to divorce him and take DD1 out of the toxic home and fight for custody of DD2. But instead she would tell us about how they were spending a fortune renovating and upgrading and improving their waterfront home (and aforementioned BMW, hair, makeup, nails, clothes, jewelry, eyelash extensions)...
I heard later that sadly DD1 dropped out of SBCC after 2 years, having borrowed a full two years of tuition at the out of state rate with no degree to show for it. There have been no updates since, I suspect because DD1 cut ties with her mom for choosing the step-dad and the lifestyle CW had to have over her first born child...
CW is still with the husband...
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After literally years of lurking, I have a post.
My husband and I both work full time. We have toddler twins. Coworker has 3 kids under the age of 7. Wife is SAHM. Coworker mentions that after work he's exhausted and wife is too after caring for kids. He mentions that by the time he comes home and they fix dinner and clean up, he doesn't have a lot of time to spend with them. I commiserate with him and mention we had the same issue. I was able to carve out an extra half hour or so a day by switching to paper plates (we are renting - dishwasher is anemic and kitchen has no garbage disposal - thus we have to go through Olympic effort dishwashing everyday - turns out so do they). When the kids get a little older (able to do some chores to help) we will switch back to regular dishes. We have spent maybe... $80 on paper plates in a year in order to get back 30 minutes of quality time A DAY with our kids.
He basically tells me that they can't afford papers plates (90 for about $2 - $3 - lasts for 2-3 weeks) because they are a single income household.
He drives a BMW 500 something. She drives a BMW X5. o_0
So self imposed poverty... That's fun.
People's sense of expensive can be so odd. Sometimes the luxury items are a must at all costs. Sometimes $10 is too much without luxury items.
I remember a coworker who came to me (I'm a shadetree mechanic as well as an engineer) about his broken headlight. I said, no sweat. You have an older car that is common. Look here on eBay - there is a good used headlight for ~$10-$15. Nope. He was looking for the 10 cent solution like wrapping the headlight in Saran Wrap or gluing a piece of plexiglass over the headlight. Why? The headlight would not likely stay waterproof, the bulb would burn out frequently (rain water), the beam might not be focused, etc. He wasn't being frugal, he was being cheap.
"self imposed poverty" - that perfectly describes so many of my past and current coworkers.
Sadly, I know so many other coworkers who suffer from this. Ten years ago, I worked with a woman who had 2 daughters and a borderline abusive husband. DD1 was the child of a former spouse that she brought into the marriage with the borderline abusive husband. DD2 was his child. They lived in a beautiful house on the water in a "prestigious" East Coast town, but her commute to work was 80 miles round trip.
She drove a relatively new BMW 300 something, very nice suits, hair always done, full court press makeup, nails, Tiffany jewelry - even eyelash extensions... EVERYDAY...
Now, I am all for someone taking good care of themselves and wanting to look their best at all times... Right up until she came to my desk and asked me to help figure out how to pay for DD1 to go to college.
DD1 had decided that no matter what it took, she was getting as far away as possible from her step-dad and had her heart set on going to college in California, specifically in San Bernardino. DD1 had figured out if she went to San Bernardino Community College, after 2 years she could transfer to CSUSB, which I thought sounded great... right up until.....
Her mother presented me with several loan documents from different banks and asked me to help her figure out which one DD1 should apply for to get the best terms. After ascertaining that CW had not saved a single dime to send DD1 to college and had no interest in a PLUS loan (don't blame her), I reviewed the loan documents and was astounded to discover that out of state tuition for SBCC cost 4 to 5 times what in state (where CW lived) would cost (This was in 2007, I think..).
I asked her to seriously consider convincing DD1 to go in state, but due to the horrible behavior of the step-dad, DD1 would have none of it. So I then asked CW, is there something you can sell to pay for the first semester? The longer DD1 can put off taking out a loan, the better. CW had also expressed to me that she wasn't sure DD1 would make it through SBCC because DD1 had done poorly in high school, but wanted to give DD1 a chance "away from her step-dad". (CW also confessed she knew her husband had treated DD1 badly, and so wanted to support DD1's wish to go to SBCC).
Anyway, CW (wearing her Tiffany jewelry with salon eyelash extensions, and professionally manicured nails) replied she had nothing she could sell to offset the cost of the first semester. I gently mentioned the BMW, and explained she could sell the BMW and probably get enough $ for at least the first semester at SBCC and see if DD1 could hack it before DD1 had to take out any loans. I mentioned that CW could purchase a small Toyota or Honda for a minimal amount and would actually be a better car for such a long commute.
At this point, CW crossed her legs, locked her arms around her chest, leaned back in the chair away from me and outright refused to part with her BMW. So I advised her which loan her DD1 should take out (at just under 6% interest).
Fast forward a few months, DD1 graduates from highschool and CW buys DD1 a graduation gift: a Louis Vuitton purse ($1,000) and a pair of Uggs... "It's the least I can do and this way she'll fit in at SBCC".
0_o
Too many disastrous things in this post to determine which is the most alarming - the abusive relationship, the $0 saved for college, the graduation gift, the inability to compromise or sacrifice, the high maintenance routine....
As a final follow up.... When I first met CW, she was trying to get a promotion at work that would move her to Colorado, at which point, she planned to divorce her husband and take the girls. (I am uncertain if she could have just done that with DD2, although she could have with DD1.) The promotion never came through, so she didn't leave him. Over the course of the first six months of getting to know her she described her life with him:
1) he kept a freezer in the basement full of HIS food, locked with a padlock, (but when guests would come over, the lock would mysteriously disappear)
2) he purchased a new state of the art washer dryer set and had them installed upstairs in a laundry closet next to the master bedroom... For HIS clothes only. CW and the girls had to use the old washer dryer in the basement
3) he would go on work trips and bring home a gift for CW and DD2, but not DD1 (who was 1 year old when CW married him and thus knew no other father figure - I understand bio-dad was and is a no show)
4) taught DD2 to drive in his car but would not do so for DD1
5) sometimes in the morning, the phone on her desk would start to ring and ring. When we answered it, the caller always hung up. Turns out, he would call her on her cell phone as she drove into work. When CW pulled into the underground garage and lost signal, he would count down 5 minutes and start calling her desk. If she didn't answer it by the time the 5 minutes were up, he'd scream at her asking where she had been since it didn't take 5 minutes to walk from the garage to her desk...
And the list goes on and on...
For the life of me, I can't understand why she stayed with him since he treated DD1 like a shifty renter as opposed to a baby girl who grew up with him as her dad. At the time, CW made a fairly good salary - upwards of $60k a year - easily enough to divorce him and take DD1 out of the toxic home and fight for custody of DD2. But instead she would tell us about how they were spending a fortune renovating and upgrading and improving their waterfront home (and aforementioned BMW, hair, makeup, nails, clothes, jewelry, eyelash extensions)...
I heard later that sadly DD1 dropped out of SBCC after 2 years, having borrowed a full two years of tuition at the out of state rate with no degree to show for it. There have been no updates since, I suspect because DD1 cut ties with her mom for choosing the step-dad and the lifestyle CW had to have over her first born child...
CW is still with the husband...
I would classify this as "abusive," not "borderline"... Wouldn't be surprised if there was serious emotional abuse and isolation of CW that she isn't willing to talk about...
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Abusive or not, I'm stealing the personal fridge idea. Somehow all my chicken tendies go missing.
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This is the first time I've had a story to share, which is far more exciting for me than it should be. . .
Coworker comes into work today, fist day back since he finished for Christmas, and when asked how his time off was he slumped in his chair and started complaining about how expensive the holidays were.
Apparently he and his wife had to host their two children and partners, their 6 grandchildren, the partners parents, as well as his and his wife's parents, siblings, siblings partners and children. Totaling 49 people for Christmas day. They couldn't all sleep in the house, so he and his wife paid for hotel rooms for all of them, and they spend Christmas through to New Year living in a hotel, paying for everyone to eat, have presents (iPads and gadgets from what I could gather) and do activities.
He ran up a bill into the five figures, just to host Christmas.
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This is the first time I've had a story to share, which is far more exciting for me than it should be. . .
Coworker comes into work today, fist day back since he finished for Christmas, and when asked how his time off was he slumped in his chair and started complaining about how expensive the holidays were.
Apparently he and his wife had to host their two children and partners, their 6 grandchildren, the partners parents, as well as his and his wife's parents, siblings, siblings partners and children. Totaling 49 people for Christmas day. They couldn't all sleep in the house, so he and his wife paid for hotel rooms for all of them, and they spend Christmas through to New Year living in a hotel, paying for everyone to eat, have presents (iPads and gadgets from what I could gather) and do activities.
He ran up a bill into the five figures, just to host Christmas.
Terrible... We spent 3 at FIL's house. But he assigned both us and BIL to make dinner one night, including buying the ingredients. Nice to share the expenses. BIL also brought beers and cheese along. FIL did not have high costs, apart from that he bought LOTS of extra vegetables, while we were supposed to cook. But that was his own mistake.
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Abusive or not, I'm stealing the personal fridge idea. Somehow all my chicken tendies go missing.
My DH always snacks away the blue cheese that I buy to use for dinner. Maybe just a small box with a lock on it would do the trick...
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This is the first time I've had a story to share, which is far more exciting for me than it should be. . .
Coworker comes into work today, fist day back since he finished for Christmas, and when asked how his time off was he slumped in his chair and started complaining about how expensive the holidays were.
Apparently he and his wife had to host their two children and partners, their 6 grandchildren, the partners parents, as well as his and his wife's parents, siblings, siblings partners and children. Totaling 49 people for Christmas day. They couldn't all sleep in the house, so he and his wife paid for hotel rooms for all of them, and they spend Christmas through to New Year living in a hotel, paying for everyone to eat, have presents (iPads and gadgets from what I could gather) and do activities.
He ran up a bill into the five figures, just to host Christmas.
Dear lord. Does the rest of the family ever reciprocate or is he enabling a bunch of freeloaders?
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This is the first time I've had a story to share, which is far more exciting for me than it should be. . .
Coworker comes into work today, fist day back since he finished for Christmas, and when asked how his time off was he slumped in his chair and started complaining about how expensive the holidays were.
Apparently he and his wife had to host their two children and partners, their 6 grandchildren, the partners parents, as well as his and his wife's parents, siblings, siblings partners and children. Totaling 49 people for Christmas day. They couldn't all sleep in the house, so he and his wife paid for hotel rooms for all of them, and they spend Christmas through to New Year living in a hotel, paying for everyone to eat, have presents (iPads and gadgets from what I could gather) and do activities.
He ran up a bill into the five figures, just to host Christmas.
Dear lord. Does the rest of the family ever reciprocate or is he enabling a bunch of freeloaders?
From the mutterings I gather that they are freeloaders, but it's alright because his Mother In Law brought a Christmas Cake. SMH.
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I work for the government, and I have a coworker who has been in this workplace for 20 years. Hard work but good payment, job security, all that. I already knew she liked to spend, had a lot of clothes, bought clothes and after a while donate them still with the price tag on them (!), 100+ pairs of shoes... crazy for me, but not the worst case I have seen.
Talking during work, she tells me that she lived with her parents until she was 40, then got a mortgage and is paying for it, now at 43 years old. She didn't save ANYTHING from her good salary as a government employee for 20 years living rent free and food free with her parents! She spent all in clothes, travel and "minor expenses"!
I felt so offended, I'm not against people living with their parents as long as they take care of some expenses, but if I was in her situation I probably would be homeowner and FIRE'd at age 45.
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I work for the government, and I have a coworker who has been in this workplace for 20 years. Hard work but good payment, job security, all that. I already knew she liked to spend, had a lot of clothes, bought clothes and after a while donate them still with the price tag on them (!), 100+ pairs of shoes... crazy for me, but not the worst case I have seen.
Talking during work, she tells me that she lived with her parents until she was 40, then got a mortgage and is paying for it, now at 43 years old. She didn't save ANYTHING from her good salary as a government employee for 20 years living rent free and food free with her parents! She spent all in clothes, travel and "minor expenses"!
I felt so offended, I'm not against people living with their parents as long as they take care of some expenses, but if I was in her situation I probably would be homeowner and FIRE'd at age 45.
Wow, what a particularly horrifying wasted opportunity. And to boot, she is going to feel poor now that she is making a mortgage payment. Call me cynical, but I am doubting she will be able to dial back the spending. She will fall deeply into debt. Oh, what could have been.
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Yesterday, a guy at work was wondering if the cafeteria took post-dated checks because we didn't get paid until today. First, who the hell writes checks for things that aren't mailed anymore. Secondly, this is the only single guy with no kids in the office. Third, today he's talking about buying a utility trailer to haul his toys around on.
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This is the first time I've had a story to share, which is far more exciting for me than it should be. . .
Coworker comes into work today, fist day back since he finished for Christmas, and when asked how his time off was he slumped in his chair and started complaining about how expensive the holidays were.
Apparently he and his wife had to host their two children and partners, their 6 grandchildren, the partners parents, as well as his and his wife's parents, siblings, siblings partners and children. Totaling 49 people for Christmas day. They couldn't all sleep in the house, so he and his wife paid for hotel rooms for all of them, and they spend Christmas through to New Year living in a hotel, paying for everyone to eat, have presents (iPads and gadgets from what I could gather) and do activities.
He ran up a bill into the five figures, just to host Christmas.
Wait... 49 people... in HOTELS, and MEALS, and GIFTS, FOR A WEEK? (Please note my tone of my voice rises until it hits a screech at the end of the sentence....)
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That’s totally ridiculous!
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This is the first time I've had a story to share, which is far more exciting for me than it should be. . .
Coworker comes into work today, fist day back since he finished for Christmas, and when asked how his time off was he slumped in his chair and started complaining about how expensive the holidays were.
Apparently he and his wife had to host their two children and partners, their 6 grandchildren, the partners parents, as well as his and his wife's parents, siblings, siblings partners and children. Totaling 49 people for Christmas day. They couldn't all sleep in the house, so he and his wife paid for hotel rooms for all of them, and they spend Christmas through to New Year living in a hotel, paying for everyone to eat, have presents (iPads and gadgets from what I could gather) and do activities.
He ran up a bill into the five figures, just to host Christmas.
Wait... 49 people... in HOTELS, and MEALS, and GIFTS, FOR A WEEK? (Please note my tone of my voice rises until it hits a screech at the end of the sentence....)
I think, if you can afford it, it would be a great once in a lifetime family reunion type thing. But if it’s gonna cause monetary stress, people should just pay their own way and maybe some people can’t show up. That’s also assuming the recipients aren’t acting like spoiled freeloaders to begin with.
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This is the first time I've had a story to share, which is far more exciting for me than it should be. . .
Coworker comes into work today, fist day back since he finished for Christmas, and when asked how his time off was he slumped in his chair and started complaining about how expensive the holidays were.
Apparently he and his wife had to host their two children and partners, their 6 grandchildren, the partners parents, as well as his and his wife's parents, siblings, siblings partners and children. Totaling 49 people for Christmas day. They couldn't all sleep in the house, so he and his wife paid for hotel rooms for all of them, and they spend Christmas through to New Year living in a hotel, paying for everyone to eat, have presents (iPads and gadgets from what I could gather) and do activities.
He ran up a bill into the five figures, just to host Christmas.
Wait... 49 people... in HOTELS, and MEALS, and GIFTS, FOR A WEEK? (Please note my tone of my voice rises until it hits a screech at the end of the sentence....)
I think, if you can afford it, it would be a great once in a lifetime family reunion type thing. But if it’s gonna cause monetary stress, people should just pay their own way and maybe some people can’t show up. That’s also assuming the recipients aren’t acting like spoiled freeloaders to begin with.
I agree, if you can afford it, it would be a lovely one off way to spend the festive season.
But I don't think he can afford it, and I don't think the attendees really deserve it.
His spend on celebrating Christmas is more than the deposit I'm saving to buy a house, it blew my mind a bit.
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Guess this is as good a place as any to post this - office greed in the form of a not-so-secret Santa recipient:
https://ca.style.yahoo.com/naughty-nice-woman-goes-viral-asking-secret-santa-colleague-buy-kids-70-tablet-135432482.html
Wow. Simply wow.
The first request would have been met with a "No!"
If there was a second request, it would have been "I'll be posting screen shots of this conversation at work as a gift to all our colleagues. I won't be removing the names from the screen shots. Have a Merry Christmas!"
More wow. What an asshat.
ETA I actually have a sister who would pull this kind of shit. Luckily, we're not currently speaking.
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After literally years of lurking, I have a post.
My husband and I both work full time. We have toddler twins. Coworker has 3 kids under the age of 7. Wife is SAHM. Coworker mentions that after work he's exhausted and wife is too after caring for kids. He mentions that by the time he comes home and they fix dinner and clean up, he doesn't have a lot of time to spend with them. I commiserate with him and mention we had the same issue. I was able to carve out an extra half hour or so a day by switching to paper plates (we are renting - dishwasher is anemic and kitchen has no garbage disposal - thus we have to go through Olympic effort dishwashing everyday - turns out so do they). When the kids get a little older (able to do some chores to help) we will switch back to regular dishes. We have spent maybe... $80 on paper plates in a year in order to get back 30 minutes of quality time A DAY with our kids.
He basically tells me that they can't afford papers plates (90 for about $2 - $3 - lasts for 2-3 weeks) because they are a single income household.
He drives a BMW 500 something. She drives a BMW X5. o_0
So self imposed poverty... That's fun.
People's sense of expensive can be so odd. Sometimes the luxury items are a must at all costs. Sometimes $10 is too much without luxury items.
I remember a coworker who came to me (I'm a shadetree mechanic as well as an engineer) about his broken headlight. I said, no sweat. You have an older car that is common. Look here on eBay - there is a good used headlight for ~$10-$15. Nope. He was looking for the 10 cent solution like wrapping the headlight in Saran Wrap or gluing a piece of plexiglass over the headlight. Why? The headlight would not likely stay waterproof, the bulb would burn out frequently (rain water), the beam might not be focused, etc. He wasn't being frugal, he was being cheap.
"self imposed poverty" - that perfectly describes so many of my past and current coworkers.
Sadly, I know so many other coworkers who suffer from this. Ten years ago, I worked with a woman who had 2 daughters and a borderline abusive husband. DD1 was the child of a former spouse that she brought into the marriage with the borderline abusive husband. DD2 was his child. They lived in a beautiful house on the water in a "prestigious" East Coast town, but her commute to work was 80 miles round trip.
She drove a relatively new BMW 300 something, very nice suits, hair always done, full court press makeup, nails, Tiffany jewelry - even eyelash extensions... EVERYDAY...
Now, I am all for someone taking good care of themselves and wanting to look their best at all times... Right up until she came to my desk and asked me to help figure out how to pay for DD1 to go to college.
DD1 had decided that no matter what it took, she was getting as far away as possible from her step-dad and had her heart set on going to college in California, specifically in San Bernardino. DD1 had figured out if she went to San Bernardino Community College, after 2 years she could transfer to CSUSB, which I thought sounded great... right up until.....
Her mother presented me with several loan documents from different banks and asked me to help her figure out which one DD1 should apply for to get the best terms. After ascertaining that CW had not saved a single dime to send DD1 to college and had no interest in a PLUS loan (don't blame her), I reviewed the loan documents and was astounded to discover that out of state tuition for SBCC cost 4 to 5 times what in state (where CW lived) would cost (This was in 2007, I think..).
I asked her to seriously consider convincing DD1 to go in state, but due to the horrible behavior of the step-dad, DD1 would have none of it. So I then asked CW, is there something you can sell to pay for the first semester? The longer DD1 can put off taking out a loan, the better. CW had also expressed to me that she wasn't sure DD1 would make it through SBCC because DD1 had done poorly in high school, but wanted to give DD1 a chance "away from her step-dad". (CW also confessed she knew her husband had treated DD1 badly, and so wanted to support DD1's wish to go to SBCC).
Anyway, CW (wearing her Tiffany jewelry with salon eyelash extensions, and professionally manicured nails) replied she had nothing she could sell to offset the cost of the first semester. I gently mentioned the BMW, and explained she could sell the BMW and probably get enough $ for at least the first semester at SBCC and see if DD1 could hack it before DD1 had to take out any loans. I mentioned that CW could purchase a small Toyota or Honda for a minimal amount and would actually be a better car for such a long commute.
At this point, CW crossed her legs, locked her arms around her chest, leaned back in the chair away from me and outright refused to part with her BMW. So I advised her which loan her DD1 should take out (at just under 6% interest).
Fast forward a few months, DD1 graduates from highschool and CW buys DD1 a graduation gift: a Louis Vuitton purse ($1,000) and a pair of Uggs... "It's the least I can do and this way she'll fit in at SBCC".
0_o
Too many disastrous things in this post to determine which is the most alarming - the abusive relationship, the $0 saved for college, the graduation gift, the inability to compromise or sacrifice, the high maintenance routine....
As a final follow up.... When I first met CW, she was trying to get a promotion at work that would move her to Colorado, at which point, she planned to divorce her husband and take the girls. (I am uncertain if she could have just done that with DD2, although she could have with DD1.) The promotion never came through, so she didn't leave him. Over the course of the first six months of getting to know her she described her life with him:
1) he kept a freezer in the basement full of HIS food, locked with a padlock, (but when guests would come over, the lock would mysteriously disappear)
2) he purchased a new state of the art washer dryer set and had them installed upstairs in a laundry closet next to the master bedroom... For HIS clothes only. CW and the girls had to use the old washer dryer in the basement
3) he would go on work trips and bring home a gift for CW and DD2, but not DD1 (who was 1 year old when CW married him and thus knew no other father figure - I understand bio-dad was and is a no show)
4) taught DD2 to drive in his car but would not do so for DD1
5) sometimes in the morning, the phone on her desk would start to ring and ring. When we answered it, the caller always hung up. Turns out, he would call her on her cell phone as she drove into work. When CW pulled into the underground garage and lost signal, he would count down 5 minutes and start calling her desk. If she didn't answer it by the time the 5 minutes were up, he'd scream at her asking where she had been since it didn't take 5 minutes to walk from the garage to her desk...
And the list goes on and on...
For the life of me, I can't understand why she stayed with him since he treated DD1 like a shifty renter as opposed to a baby girl who grew up with him as her dad. At the time, CW made a fairly good salary - upwards of $60k a year - easily enough to divorce him and take DD1 out of the toxic home and fight for custody of DD2. But instead she would tell us about how they were spending a fortune renovating and upgrading and improving their waterfront home (and aforementioned BMW, hair, makeup, nails, clothes, jewelry, eyelash extensions)...
I heard later that sadly DD1 dropped out of SBCC after 2 years, having borrowed a full two years of tuition at the out of state rate with no degree to show for it. There have been no updates since, I suspect because DD1 cut ties with her mom for choosing the step-dad and the lifestyle CW had to have over her first born child...
CW is still with the husband...
That is just so freaking sad. My parent stayed with an abusive husband until I was 21. They married when I was 3 and it took me years and lots of therapy to have even the shallow relationship we have now. My parent will sometimes try to rewrite history, but my sister and I will have none of that. I hope DD1 has supportive and loving extended family, that is truly what saved my mental health early on.
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We have a generous early retirement program, and a significant number of people who “retire” and return on contract often on reduced hours or project work. One coworker “retired” in the fall, but was at the Xmas party with her team. She’s working a full schedule doing the same work as before. She proud of her frugality because she drives (nurses) a 12 year old Toyota, but the reason that she and her husband can’t make it on the their two professional salaries (she’s pulling 120k and his is at a higher grade) is they’ve been paying tuition for three adult children out of cash flow (no savings)PLUS four mortgages (their own plus three). The reason they still have a mortgage is they pulled out their equity for three down payments. I hope the third income stream keeps their head above water longer than the next department reorganization which will end her contract.
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I've mentioned my one co-worker before who makes questionable financial decisions and is barely paycheck to paycheck because of them. We were talking yesterday about New Year's activities. I stayed home, watched the ball drop at 9pm (for free) with my kids. She went out to some concert with a "VIP" thing, stayed at a fancy hotel nearby, drank to abandon. Sigh. It makes me sad, but I know she's not going to change, so I just stay thankful that I have different priorities.
@Tabitha We are preparing to cash flow my oldest's college beginning this year; so painful. It will reduce our travel and really drive us down to true mustachianism for the most part, but I'm just thankful that we can swing it. Definitely not pulling any equity out of our house although we have over 50% equity. With a 3.25% fixed rate on our mortgage we will never pay a penny off early. At least your co-worker doesn't get a ridiculous car on top of it all; it's sad how many people come up in this thread that would have a new car on a lease anyway because they "work hard" and "deserve it". I wish we had saved up more in advance of college, but we have at least maxed out our retirement for a couple years now and that won't change during these leaner college years.
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CW1: ...blah blah blah...but you're getting close to retirement, aren't you?
CW2: 5 more years! (I've known her for 2 years, and it was 5 more years 2 years ago, too. She is now 63. Maybe 62.)
ME: Holy F&@K! Why? *
CW1 & CW2: ...continued conversation about a place they both used to work together...
* No, I did not actually say this out loud, but my thoughts may have been audible, as they were very loud in my head. I wasn't part of the conversation; I was just sitting nearby and overheard it. The part that makes me a bit sad is CW2 is actually my boss, and 2019 is my FIRE year. I wonder how THAT conversation is going to go!!??
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#1) During 2019 benefits overview, colleague #1 breaks down in tears in front of half the company because they eliminated the HMO option, and are only offering HSA/FSA. She couldn't fathom how to cover her children's basic healthcare in 2019 when she is forced to save up her new HSA. $5,000 deductible plan costs ~$70 paycheck + whatever she wants to contribute to HSA.
#2) Learned over the weekend that co-worker's sister is going to a Latin American country because she had zero dental insurance over the past 10 years, and needs 16 cavities 2 root canals and a cap that would cost 5 figures in the U.S. out of pocket. Said person lives paycheck to paycheck as a waitress, is 28, and lives at home with parents. Negative net wealth. SMH.
#3) 55 y/o executive co-worker making $200k+ / year (likely more) explains to 60 y/o co-worker that 4 days in august 2019 are the only chance he'll have to take any vacation time with his family for the whole year because he's so busy at work. SMH...
#4) 67 y/o co-worker won an annual "mvp" award for her scrupulous work in 2018. 67... SMH...
not all of these examples are anti-mustachian, but I couldn't help myself not to share :)
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I work in an office with 3 other people. Now that Christmas vacation is over, a couple of them are comparing notes on their new Apple watches and spouses' new ipads. Apparently, this was a low spend Christmas at their homes. Low spend Christmas at my house this year too so my husband and I didn't exchange gifts at all.
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#2) Learned over the weekend that co-worker's sister is going to a Latin American country because she had zero dental insurance over the past 10 years, and needs 16 cavities 2 root canals and a cap that would cost 5 figures in the U.S. out of pocket. Said person lives paycheck to paycheck as a waitress, is 28, and lives at home with parents. Negative net wealth. SMH.
The neighborhood I grew up in, dental insurance was for rich people and you didn't really go to the dentist unless there was a big problem. When I was in high school, I had to have my wisdom teeth extracted and the cost to do here was so high that it was worth my dad and I flying to brazil, staying with family for a week and getting it done there.
I'm now 30 with a good job and I still can't bring myself to pay for dental insurance. Now I get checked out once a year at the local dental college for free because graduating students need to perform on a person to pass their boards.
If you ask me, the 28 year old waitress is being pretty mustachian by finding a cheaper way to get her necessary medical work done, instead of putting five figures on a credit card...etc.
It's certainly a mustachian solution, but a debatable case study of: receiving preventative care 2x per year for 10 years (thus possibly reducing the cavities etc.), or pocketing the difference, and wind up in the situation she's in. Dental insurance is dirt cheap vs. broad health insurance for what it's worth. The dental college is a very good tip regardless!
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Overheard co-workers talking about how the stock market is down and why there is no point in investing or saving.
CW1 The market is crashing. Apple is lowering it's outlook for the year.
CW2 See that's why it is not smart to invest. Why save any money if you are just going to lose it in the stock market?
....conversation switched to all the shopping done over the holidays.
I just bit my tongue and didn't say anything.
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Overheard co-workers talking about how the stock market is down and why there is no point in investing or saving.
CW1 The market is crashing. Apple is lowering it's outlook for the year.
CW2 See that's why it is not smart to invest. Why save any money if you are just going to lose it in the stock market?
....conversation switched to all the shopping done over the holidays.
I just bit my tongue and didn't say anything.
I've had a recent conversation with someone that was exactly this. And this person is otherwise quite smart. What on earth are people thinking?
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Overheard co-workers talking about how the stock market is down and why there is no point in investing or saving.
CW1 The market is crashing. Apple is lowering it's outlook for the year.
CW2 See that's why it is not smart to invest. Why save any money if you are just going to lose it in the stock market?
....conversation switched to all the shopping done over the holidays.
I just bit my tongue and didn't say anything.
I've had a recent conversation with someone that was exactly this. And this person is otherwise quite smart. What on earth are people thinking?
I mean...why invest when you can just play the lottery instead for a much bigger reward? Right?
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I mean...why invest when you can just play the lottery instead for a much bigger reward? Right?
I wish I thought of saying that! Of course I would be saying it sarcastically, but I am sure they would both agree and think it was a better investment.
It's really difficult to explain the virtues of index investing and planning for the long term, everyone is living in the moment and looking for the quick fix.
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I mean...why invest when you can just play the lottery instead for a much bigger reward? Right?
I wish I thought of saying that! Of course I would be saying it sarcastically, but I am sure they would both agree and think it was a better investment.
It's really difficult to explain the virtues of index investing and planning for the long term, everyone is living in the moment and looking for the quick fix.
My 60 year old self employed contractor coworker sold off all her retirement investments in October and was acting pretty smug about her great sense of market timing.
Retirement savings are now in a 0,25% interest savings account (Europe). Sure great market timing.
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Overheard co-workers talking about how the stock market is down and why there is no point in investing or saving.
CW1 The market is crashing. Apple is lowering it's outlook for the year.
CW2 See that's why it is not smart to invest. Why save any money if you are just going to lose it in the stock market?
....conversation switched to all the shopping done over the holidays.
I just bit my tongue and didn't say anything.
I've had a recent conversation with someone that was exactly this. And this person is otherwise quite smart. What on earth are people thinking?
I think there is way more to these comments than most of us realize. The system is setup to screw people not smart enough to ride out the downturns. Truthfully, the VAST majority of the US population has the risk appetite for a portfolio heavily concentrated in bonds/cash. It just FEELS way too risky for them to change their minds. And then when they are talked into investing in equities (even great funds like VTSAX), they still sell when the market drops because they should have NEVER been that heavily invested in equity positions in the first place.
Also, they might somewhat understand inflation, and realize that saving cash will provide them a negative return, so dog gone it we might as well spend it now while we have it! and don't forget, YOLO.
Here's a personal example to support my thoughts...
My now deceased grandfather is a perfect example of someone who still saved, but way underestimated the impact of inflation. He retired in 1986 at 59 years old with a great pension (at the time). He had a paid for house as well as some savings (all cash/CDs). By the time he started drawing SS at 62, they were making around $3,500 month between one decent pension, one very small pension, and two SS checks. $3,500/month in 1989 (year he turned 62) with a paid off house and paid off vehicles was a hell of a living. Now a days it isn't a drop in the bucket.
Fast forward to today - my grandmother is now 89 and is showing some signs of dementia. She is still in good physical health. My grandfather died 18 months ago. There goes the pension and his social security. She now lives in a paid off house (worth about $160K) while drawing $1K a month in SS benefits. Still has about $100K of cds and cash in savings accounts, but the interest income last year totaled around $90. She is trying to "live independently" to preserve the small inheritance for her kids (2 kids will split everything 50-50), but her "living independently" includes relying on my mom *her daughter) for everything.
Moral of the story, it might have been better for them to "enjoy life" when younger and then just live on the pension and SS. Now that my grandfather has passed, it would be much better on everyone if grandma had zero assets and wasn't trying to live independently leaving my poor mother to be her caretaker all to inherit less money than she would have accumulated by simply continuing to work.
And yes, you could respond and say grandpa should have put all the money in a bond fund and equities fund in 1986 and then he would have had plenty of assets... blah blah blah. I agree with you, but grandpa (and many of his current contemporaries) would NEVER do that because it is just too damn risky...
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Something similar-ish happened with my grandmother before she died. The morale of the story again is that inflation eats away like crazy at a portfolio if you aren’t invested in equities for the long-term. I think too much emphasis is spent on protecting against the scary ride of the stock market in “safe” investments that are actually very unsafe if you have a long time horizon.
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* No, I did not actually say this out loud, but my thoughts may have been audible, as they were very loud in my head. I wasn't part of the conversation; I was just sitting nearby and overheard it. The part that makes me a bit sad is CW2 is actually my boss, and 2019 is my FIRE year. I wonder how THAT conversation is going to go!!??
You are SO LUCKY to be able to retire. There are all these different reasons that the boss can't retire. She can't change her circumstances. Every weekend she must spend money here and there. During the week there are a different set of reasons but she needs to continue to spend. And luxury things just b/c.
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Something similar-ish happened with my grandmother before she died. The morale of the story again is that inflation eats away like crazy at a portfolio if you aren’t invested in equities for the long-term. I think too much emphasis is spent on protecting against the scary ride of the stock market in “safe” investments that are actually very unsafe if you have a long time horizon.
Agreed, with a few small points to consider:
1. We are talking about human beings with emotions. They aren't robots who automatically do the financially prudent thing.
2. If you convince these risk averse people to invest in VTSAX, and the market declines, they will SELL no matter how much you plead with them not to!
3. This is why William Bernstein concluded that MOST of the population actually needs a fiduciary financial advisor. If for nothing more than to talk them off the cliff when December 2018s happen.
Source: my grandpa, your grandma, and hundreds of clients that I have worked with on the tax side in the last decade. Not to mention all the research done showing the buy low sell high problems in the US...
I think it would be interesting to see some sort of research on the droves of people who sell high and buy low due to risk aversion. What would their portfolio look like if they had a much heavier allocation to bonds and cash as opposed to stocks and then bail out when the market declines.
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I agree with what you are saying but I actually wonder if we should conclude that most people are not cut out to be investors. Probably most people would be better off with defined benefit plans like a beefed-up social security, pensions for all, or something similar. It is a tough job to go up against human psychology with masses of mostly uninterested people.
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I agree with what you are saying but I actually wonder if we should conclude that most people are not cut out to be investors. Probably most people would be better off with defined benefit plans like a beefed-up social security, pensions for all, or something similar. It is a tough job to go up against human psychology with masses of mostly uninterested people.
I agree with this. I don't think most people are cut out to be investors. The Cdn government is slowing starting to see it. In the last few years they've raised the CPP premiums. CPP is like American social security.
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#2) Learned over the weekend that co-worker's sister is going to a Latin American country because she had zero dental insurance over the past 10 years, and needs 16 cavities 2 root canals and a cap that would cost 5 figures in the U.S. out of pocket. Said person lives paycheck to paycheck as a waitress, is 28, and lives at home with parents. Negative net wealth. SMH.
The neighborhood I grew up in, dental insurance was for rich people and you didn't really go to the dentist unless there was a big problem. When I was in high school, I had to have my wisdom teeth extracted and the cost to do here was so high that it was worth my dad and I flying to brazil, staying with family for a week and getting it done there.
I'm now 30 with a good job and I still can't bring myself to pay for dental insurance. Now I get checked out once a year at the local dental college for free because graduating students need to perform on a person to pass their boards.
If you ask me, the 28 year old waitress is being pretty mustachian by finding a cheaper way to get her necessary medical work done, instead of putting five figures on a credit card...etc.
It's certainly a mustachian solution, but a debatable case study of: receiving preventative care 2x per year for 10 years (thus possibly reducing the cavities etc.), or pocketing the difference, and wind up in the situation she's in. Dental insurance is dirt cheap vs. broad health insurance for what it's worth. The dental college is a very good tip regardless!
A noticeable number of my friends, after not having dental insurance through college and early 20s, finally went to see a dentist in the past few years (mid- late 20s) Many of them needed a root canal. As well as a couple fillings each.
I don't have a pre-ACA frame of reference, but I remember hearing open-market (non employer) dental insurance wasn't worth it given what it covered, cheaper to pay for two cleanings out of pocket, esp if you can find new-patient discounts. I was lucky to have good insurance through my dad and subsequently grad school.
Now, we can talk about unwillingness/inability of people with decent incomes/lifestyles to plan for and cover an occasional 100-200 expense for their health (dental cleaning, urgent care, etc). While waitressing isn't of itself a "decent lifestyle" in general, I think it may be if living with parents, ahem.
But mostly I find it sad that we isolate this very important aspect of health care and people legitimately have complications and die because of it at times. Glad this lady is catching up on the care she needs.
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I agree with what you are saying but I actually wonder if we should conclude that most people are not cut out to be investors. Probably most people would be better off with defined benefit plans like a beefed-up social security, pensions for all, or something similar. It is a tough job to go up against human psychology with masses of mostly uninterested people.
I agree with this. I don't think most people are cut out to be investors. The Cdn government is slowing starting to see it. In the last few years they've raised the CPP premiums. CPP is like American social security.
I completely agree with both of you.
In my grandfather's generation (both my grandparents were born in the 20s), union membership was very high. Most union jobs came with a pension, social security, and the general understanding by the population to have a paid off mortgage as they approached retirement. Commonly known as the three legged stool.
That was mostly on the way out with my parents generation (both parents born early 50s), with lobbyists convincing Congress to pass the 401K laws so big business could funnel the cost of providing retirement benefits to the employee rather than employer. Even with pensions being eliminated, there were still many corporate jobs that provided stable employment with lots of upward mobility.
By the time my generation got to the workforce (me and my siblings born in the 80s), not only were pensions and unions a thing of the past, but now just relying on a good job with built in promotions and raises is not a realistic option for a good majority of the population.
It is really sad when a government employee is outpacing MOST private sector employees in pay AND benefits. I have nothing against those who work for the gov't, but I think it is sad snapshot at the state of our country and our economy when the best available jobs (admittedly with a few exceptions) are government work.
Add up all those major societal shifts over the past 60 years coupled with the lack of mandatory financial education, and we now have a population with zero basic financial knowledge who is supposed to be able to create their own retirement plan, choose the right investments, understand safe withdrawal rates, understand markets go up and down (while being disciplined enough not to panic) and plan for huge future unknowns (healthcare and end of life care especially). The truth is most of our citizens couldn't explain basic compounding interest, and yet are responsible to plan and execute their entire retirement picture.
Some easy solutions (but ones that would never be passed due to people like me and all the sleazy financial salesman being out of a job) would be:
1. Social security combined with a defined benefit plan. Say like 10% to social security (reduced from 15.3%) and then start a separate defined benefit plan of another 10% that was invested in the TSP just like all our corrupt politicians get. 20% invested wisely over a person's working career should be satisfactory for a modest retirement.
2. Medicare for all. I haven't run the numbers to see what the current 2.9% would need to be increased to, but let's say 7.5% of all income/wages.
3. A flat tax on all earnings, income, wages, capital gains, etc. No special tax treatment, period. I'm sure we could figure out what that number needed to be, then we could set a "poverty line limit" so those at the bottom get exempted from income taxes at the federal and state levels. But no more welfare through the income tax system.
4. Still allow for IRAs with no maximum contributions. This would allow those us interested in FIRE to achieve our goals but would take the pressure off of the average Joe having to DIY his own retirement plan. Also do away with retirement savings being connected to employment at all. That way big business doesn't have people by the balls with the benefits they offer. Would be a more level playing field which I think would then create better working conditions for all (hopefully easing the feeling of being chained to a good job for benefits).
I realize most of this is but a mere pipe dream. Both Dems and Repubs alike are in the back pocket of big business and special interests. I never see that changing in my lifetime.
But just wanted to point out some potential options as I agree the average Joe just isn't going to pick up a Bogle book on investing and break years of terrible habits and emotional conditioning. Maybe the growing retirement crisis will change things, but it might be too late to make adjustments by the time people in their 30's and 40's get to retirement age.
And I know my personal experience is very anecdotal, but I only have one acquaintance (my younger brother) who will be adequately prepared for retirement. And that is out of a pretty wide social circle plus all the clients I have worked for presently and over the last decade. Even though talking finances is a taboo subject, it is impossible to avoid with your accountant to some degree :)
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But mostly I find it sad that we isolate this very important aspect of health care and people legitimately have complications and die because of it at times. Glad this lady is catching up on the care she needs.
I agree with this. But don't tell that to the dentists in private practice. If in a fairly low dentist to population area, dentists can work a 4 day work week and bank $400K+ net without being all that great of a business person and without working too hard.
There seems to be a real lack of basic understanding among them about the state of most people's finances. They don't understand why people can't/wont pay hundreds or thousands of dollars a year for dental care out of pocket. After all, if you make half a mil a year working 4 days a week, you aren't going to understand why Johnny who works 55 hours/week at the local auto parts store cancelled his routine cleaning because he didn't feel like he could afford it.
It is accurate that many potential dental patients have misplaced priorities (would rather buy a new iPhone instead of going to the dentist twice a year for cleanings and checkups), but they are marketed to like crazy for those shiny, new objects. It is never going to be sexy to go see the hygienist no matter what marketing the dentist does. And those big corporate marketing machines are effective.
I have a couple of dentists as clients and they are really great people and great clients. But they are also out of touch with the everyday Joe in the US in the current economy.
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She now lives in a paid off house (worth about $160K) while drawing $1K a month in SS benefits. Still has about $100K of cds and cash in savings accounts, but the interest income last year totaled around $90.
How the hell do you only get $90 a year yield on $100k? Even utterly crap local bank CDs should earn more than $1K.
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She now lives in a paid off house (worth about $160K) while drawing $1K a month in SS benefits. Still has about $100K of cds and cash in savings accounts, but the interest income last year totaled around $90.
How the hell do you only get $90 a year yield on $100k? Even utterly crap local bank CDs should earn more than $1K.
Most of the $100k is in a savings account paying literally nothing. I have no idea what the CDs pay, but I believe they were all in the 1-2% range. I also believe it was less than $10k of the $100k as my grandpa quit reinvesting in new CDs as his health was declining (was afraid they would need the cash immidiately).
I don't know all the complete details as I try to stay out of it. But my grandma was asking me something about RMDs for IRAs and if she would have to file taxes. I asked how much interest she received from the CDs and savings account, and she said 'I think somewhere between $85 and $95 total for the year."
At that point I told her there was no reason to go searching for the tax doc they sent her as she had no chance of having to file a return.
So as unbelievable as it is, I'm pretty confident it is 100% accurate as my grandma would never lie about that plus she was really scared to handle most of that stuff on her own after my grandfather's passing.
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#2) Learned over the weekend that co-worker's sister is going to a Latin American country because she had zero dental insurance over the past 10 years, and needs 16 cavities 2 root canals and a cap that would cost 5 figures in the U.S. out of pocket. Said person lives paycheck to paycheck as a waitress, is 28, and lives at home with parents. Negative net wealth. SMH.
The neighborhood I grew up in, dental insurance was for rich people and you didn't really go to the dentist unless there was a big problem. ...
If you ask me, the 28 year old waitress is being pretty mustachian by finding a cheaper way to get her necessary medical work done, instead of putting five figures on a credit card...etc.
Mustachian would be brushing and flossing like it was a religion to avoid 16 cavities plus root canals. Professional Dental Hygenist cleaning helps overcome the results of poor brushing/flossing. My brother in his 50’s still has no cavities, though he also rarely has had dental insurance. I’m not quite as disciplined, so I’ve had a few.
The exceptions of course are impacted/wisdom teeth and chalky teeth caused by poor maternal health. My Mother has chalky teeth, and her fillings end up replaced every 10 years or so. She was determined we would have good dental habits, but good brushing for her only delays the inevitable.
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#2) Learned over the weekend that co-worker's sister is going to a Latin American country because she had zero dental insurance over the past 10 years, and needs 16 cavities 2 root canals and a cap that would cost 5 figures in the U.S. out of pocket. Said person lives paycheck to paycheck as a waitress, is 28, and lives at home with parents. Negative net wealth. SMH.
The neighborhood I grew up in, dental insurance was for rich people and you didn't really go to the dentist unless there was a big problem. ...
If you ask me, the 28 year old waitress is being pretty mustachian by finding a cheaper way to get her necessary medical work done, instead of putting five figures on a credit card...etc.
Mustachian would be brushing and flossing like it was a religion to avoid 16 cavities plus root canals. Professional Dental Hygenist cleaning helps overcome the results of poor brushing/flossing. My brother in his 50’s still has no cavities, though he also rarely has had dental insurance. I’m not quite as disciplined, so I’ve had a few.
The exceptions of course are impacted/wisdom teeth and chalky teeth caused by poor maternal health. My Mother has chalky teeth, and her fillings end up replaced every 10 years or so. She was determined we would have good dental habits, but good brushing for her only delays the inevitable.
This.
I avoid the dentist like the plague. I have a phobia. When I do HAVE to go, I just get knocked out completely, but the anxiety leading up to it is a killer in itself. Anyway, I'll do just about anything to avoid going - I brush, I floss, I rinse, I polish etc etc etc, I don't eat things like chewy candy or popcorn with hard bits, or drink soda or fruit juice.
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My mother lives in Mexico. I should schedule all my dental needs for when I go down to visit her. It's insanely cheap. I think, actually, that's a thing now, medical tourism.
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My mother lives in Mexico. I should schedule all my dental needs for when I go down to visit her. It's insanely cheap. I think, actually, that's a thing now, medical tourism.
Yes, it is. I have friends who've gone to Mexico and Costa Rica for dental work.
The person who went to Mexico said that the office was state-of-the-art, way ahead of their local dentist in the US.
The person who went to Costa Rica said everything went well, but had a crazy amount of work done at one time. As far as I know it all turned out ok.
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So, the government is shut down and my co-worker just realized that they can't file early and get their tax return because the IRS is furloughed. They are in a panic because they "need" their income tax refund to pay off their credit card. When they asked me what I was going to do I told them that I only get about $100 back each year. I make sure that I have my money to invest during the year instead of it being in a non-interest bearing account with the U.S.A. They really couldn't get the concept that the tax return wasn't a gift from the government but money that they paid in. They actually thought that I needed to find someone to do my taxes so I could get a bigger refund.
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So, the government is shut down and my co-worker just realized that they can't file early and get their tax return because the IRS is furloughed. They are in a panic because they "need" their income tax refund to pay off their credit card. When they asked me what I was going to do I told them that I only get about $100 back each year. I make sure that I have my money to invest during the year instead of it being in a non-interest bearing account with the U.S.A. They really couldn't get the concept that the tax return wasn't a gift from the government but money that they paid in. They actually thought that I needed to find someone to do my taxes so I could get a bigger refund.
Yeah, I think this is the first time I’ve been glad about my tax situation as a freelancer. My estimated tax payments usually fall a bit short, but husband’s refund makes up most or all of the difference. We never get a refund so we don’t even consider it. However, most people we know plan big things around their refunds. If the shutdown continues indefinitely, I expect to hear a LOT of outrage starting next month.
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We have a generous early retirement program, and a significant number of people who “retire” and return on contract often on reduced hours or project work. One coworker “retired” in the fall, but was at the Xmas party with her team. She’s working a full schedule doing the same work as before. She proud of her frugality because she drives (nurses) a 12 year old Toyota, but the reason that she and her husband can’t make it on the their two professional salaries (she’s pulling 120k and his is at a higher grade) is they’ve been paying tuition for three adult children out of cash flow (no savings)PLUS four mortgages (their own plus three). The reason they still have a mortgage is they pulled out their equity for three down payments. I hope the third income stream keeps their head above water longer than the next department reorganization which will end her contract.
Are the three other mortgages on rental properties?
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I was without dental insurance for about 8 years between being self-employed (as always) and my wife either being a SAHM or having an employer that didn't provide it. Unlike self-employed health insurance (at least pre-ObamaCare when we had it), which was outrageously expensive but at least easy to understand and get the coverage you wanted, self-employed dental insurance is a train wreck. You never knew what you were getting and what few choices you had in terms of dentists (usually the chain strip mall types.)
Not wanting to go without dental care - and thankfully this was mostly pre-kids -- we simply took advantage of all of those introductory $59 cleaning/X-Ray offers that dentists are always offering. Sure it was a pain to go to a new dentist every 6-12 months and fill out all of the new patient paperwork -- this was before your longtime medical providers made you fill it all out every appointment anyway --- but it kept our teeth in good shape for about $120 per person per year.
Here's the thing, too. If you floss daily and brush after every meal, preferably once a day with a SonicCare or similar, don't smoke and eat a reasonable diet, your dental needs should be few. I'm 49 and have never had a cavity. And after going through braces as a kid, I do everything possible to keep my teeth in mint condition. It's not that hard.
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Figured I'd post a good story to show that not all is lost with coworkers. I had the pleasure to be able to hire an excellent intern into a full-time position. This meant he could go from working 65 hours a week total split between two jobs down to 40 hours a week at one job and make more. After his first full week I was asking him how things were going and if he had any questions on the benefits. He said "No" but I reminded him about our excellent company match. He said he already set it up to completely max out his contribution because he was happy enough to work less and he didn't need to increase his spending to match his salary. He's 26
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Here's the thing, too. If you floss daily and brush after every meal, preferably once a day with a SonicCare or similar, don't smoke and eat a reasonable diet, your dental needs should be few. I'm 49 and have never had a cavity. And after going through braces as a kid, I do everything possible to keep my teeth in mint condition. It's not that hard.
This.
While my co-workers routinely miss work because of dental appointments and complain about the cost of some of their dental bills, I am left to wonder how necessary much of it is. I am 42, have never had a cavity, and have not been to a dentist in 15 years. I brush every morning, eat a pretty healthy diet, don't smoke, and exercise regularly. I stopped flossing years ago because it seemed stupid, and as it turns out, flossing was dropped from HHS guidelines because there is no real evidence that it helps. (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/health/flossing-teeth-cavities.html)
I don't see a podiatrist, dermatologist, or cardiologist two times every year, so why would I go see a dentist that often?
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Hey, y'all, guess what? People are different! Different body chemistry, different history (especially fluoride).
And I'm curious how you "know" you don't have any cavities when you haven't been to the dentist in 15 years.
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Here's the thing, too. If you floss daily and brush after every meal, preferably once a day with a SonicCare or similar, don't smoke and eat a reasonable diet, your dental needs should be few. I'm 49 and have never had a cavity. And after going through braces as a kid, I do everything possible to keep my teeth in mint condition. It's not that hard.
This.
While my co-workers routinely miss work because of dental appointments and complain about the cost of some of their dental bills, I am left to wonder how necessary much of it is. I am 42, have never had a cavity, and have not been to a dentist in 15 years. I brush every morning, eat a pretty healthy diet, don't smoke, and exercise regularly. I stopped flossing years ago because it seemed stupid, and as it turns out, flossing was dropped from HHS guidelines because there is no real evidence that it helps. (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/health/flossing-teeth-cavities.html)
I don't see a podiatrist, dermatologist, or cardiologist two times every year, so why would I go see a dentist that often?
It can depend on your body and your saliva. My wife could brush everother day and not get a cavity. I brush 2-3 times a day (including with a sonic care) and occasionally get cavities. Our diet is basically the same.
When I complained about the fairness of that to my dentist he told me how much saliva is produced and it's pH has a large effect on tooth health. So some of it is beyond their (my) control
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Hey, y'all, guess what? People are different! Different body chemistry, different history (especially fluoride).
And I'm curious how you "know" you don't have any cavities when you haven't been to the dentist in 15 years.
Fair enough, I may have 32 cavities right now, but I don't have any pain, temperature sensitivity, or discoloring, so I have no plans to visit a dentist until I do. It's a risk I'm willing to take.
The last time I was at the dentist, he was surprised that I still had my wisdom teeth. He recommended I get them removed, and said "If you don't, they are going to give you problems." I have had no problems with my wisdom teeth. Avoiding the cost and risk of an unnecessary surgery seems like a Mustachian decision to me.
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Hey, y'all, guess what? People are different! Different body chemistry, different history (especially fluoride).
And I'm curious how you "know" you don't have any cavities when you haven't been to the dentist in 15 years.
Fair enough, I may have 32 cavities right now, but I don't have any pain, temperature sensitivity, or discoloring, so I have no plans to visit a dentist until I do. It's a risk I'm willing to take.
The last time I was at the dentist, he was surprised that I still had my wisdom teeth. He recommended I get them removed, and said "If you don't, they are going to give you problems." I have had no problems with my wisdom teeth. Avoiding the cost and risk of an unnecessary surgery seems like a Mustachian decision to me.
Wisdom tooth removal often depends on the size of your jaw. Even if they grow in straight, they can sometimes slowly push other teeth out of alignment and cause malocclusion over time, which can cause other problems especially with age. For example, age-related dysphagia and a reduced ability to chew food properly due to malocclusion could increase your risks of choking and aspiration pneumonia (I'm a science editor, and you'd be surprised at how many papers I read about geriatric health issues related to chewing and swallowing ability). Dentists are actually experts in their field, and it sounds like this one is giving you the actually Mustachian suggestion of taking care of something before it becomes a more expensive problem.
If your wisdom teeth are straight (e.g., not impacted), it may only involve a couple shots of novocaine, pliers, and some painkillers (I speak from personal experience). At the very least, it would be worth visiting a dentist at least every couple of years to make sure that the wisdom teeth are not causing a need for orthodontic correction.
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It can depend on your body and your saliva. My wife could brush everother day and not get a cavity. I brush 2-3 times a day (including with a sonic care) and occasionally get cavities. Our diet is basically the same.
When I complained about the fairness of that to my dentist he told me how much saliva is produced and it's pH has a large effect on tooth health. So some of it is beyond their (my) control
Do you drink a lot of water? I had a dentist a long time ago who told me that if you drink lots of water after eating/drinking, it helps rebalance the acidity in your mouth.
I'm also one who doesn't go to the dentist often. I brush twice a day, floss at night, and only drink water. I had about 4 years between dental cleanings and the dentist was shocked how good my teeth looked (I also had a lot of fillings when I was younger and had a crap diet, so it's not an issue of just genetics). It's now been about 7 years since my last dentist visit.
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I'm a government employee but our agency had enough money to ride out a few weeks of a shutdown. We are officially out of money and we get to work for 4 hours today to close things up and then we are furloughed until the shutdown ends. Most of us have enough savings that even if we don't get backpay we aren't really worried about it but a few people are freaking out/their spouses are freaking out. Today is definitely a day when you can separate the mustacians from the others :)
For my part I'm going to tile the backsplash in my new house.
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It can depend on your body and your saliva. My wife could brush everother day and not get a cavity. I brush 2-3 times a day (including with a sonic care) and occasionally get cavities. Our diet is basically the same.
When I complained about the fairness of that to my dentist he told me how much saliva is produced and it's pH has a large effect on tooth health. So some of it is beyond their (my) control
Do you drink a lot of water? I had a dentist a long time ago who told me that if you drink lots of water after eating/drinking, it helps rebalance the acidity in your mouth.
I'm also one who doesn't go to the dentist often. I brush twice a day, floss at night, and only drink water. I had about 4 years between dental cleanings and the dentist was shocked how good my teeth looked (I also had a lot of fillings when I was younger and had a crap diet, so it's not an issue of just genetics). It's now been about 7 years since my last dentist visit.
Fillings don't last forever. If you have some really old ones, it might be prudent to have them checked.
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Hey, y'all, guess what? People are different! Different body chemistry, different history (especially fluoride).
And I'm curious how you "know" you don't have any cavities when you haven't been to the dentist in 15 years.
Fair enough, I may have 32 cavities right now, but I don't have any pain, temperature sensitivity, or discoloring, so I have no plans to visit a dentist until I do. It's a risk I'm willing to take.
The last time I was at the dentist, he was surprised that I still had my wisdom teeth. He recommended I get them removed, and said "If you don't, they are going to give you problems." I have had no problems with my wisdom teeth. Avoiding the cost and risk of an unnecessary surgery seems like a Mustachian decision to me.
Wisdom tooth removal often depends on the size of your jaw. Even if they grow in straight, they can sometimes slowly push other teeth out of alignment and cause malocclusion over time, which can cause other problems especially with age. For example, age-related dysphagia and a reduced ability to chew food properly due to malocclusion could increase your risks of choking and aspiration pneumonia (I'm a science editor, and you'd be surprised at how many papers I read about geriatric health issues related to chewing and swallowing ability). Dentists are actually experts in their field, and it sounds like this one is giving you the actually Mustachian suggestion of taking care of something before it becomes a more expensive problem.
If your wisdom teeth are straight (e.g., not impacted), it may only involve a couple shots of novocaine, pliers, and some painkillers (I speak from personal experience). At the very least, it would be worth visiting a dentist at least every couple of years to make sure that the wisdom teeth are not causing a need for orthodontic correction.
Or, I could take the Mustachian route and do some research myself, and discover studies such as this one from the American Journal of Public Health, which concludes that 2/3 of wisdom tooth extractions are unnecessary. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1963310/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1963310/) "The Prophylactic Extraction of Third Molars: A Public Health Hazard."
Back on topic, my mind was blown the other day by co-worker telling me that she can't afford to put more than the 3% (matched)into her 401k, despite her and her husband making a combined 200k while living in an insanely LCOL area. I did show her a couple MMM posts, and she seemed to like the FIRE idea rather than reject it out of hand, so perhaps a seed was planted...
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My dentist asked me to have one wisdom tooth removed, because if it went bad it could easily affect the tooth next to it. The other three he was not concerned with, and they are still in there.
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This is the first time I've had a story to share, which is far more exciting for me than it should be. . .
Coworker comes into work today, fist day back since he finished for Christmas, and when asked how his time off was he slumped in his chair and started complaining about how expensive the holidays were.
Apparently he and his wife had to host their two children and partners, their 6 grandchildren, the partners parents, as well as his and his wife's parents, siblings, siblings partners and children. Totaling 49 people for Christmas day. They couldn't all sleep in the house, so he and his wife paid for hotel rooms for all of them, and they spend Christmas through to New Year living in a hotel, paying for everyone to eat, have presents (iPads and gadgets from what I could gather) and do activities.
He ran up a bill into the five figures, just to host Christmas.
?? I'm so confused. To me "hosting" Xmas means opening your doors to people, not paying for hotel rooms. How did he get suckered into that??
@Piglet : what a depressing story about that mother not having enough courage or confidence to leave an @hole who was abusive to her daughter. There's more than one reason to have FU money I suppose, but it takes a spine to use it. :/
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Here's the thing, too. If you floss daily and brush after every meal, preferably once a day with a SonicCare or similar, don't smoke and eat a reasonable diet, your dental needs should be few. I'm 49 and have never had a cavity. And after going through braces as a kid, I do everything possible to keep my teeth in mint condition. It's not that hard.
This.
While my co-workers routinely miss work because of dental appointments and complain about the cost of some of their dental bills, I am left to wonder how necessary much of it is. I am 42, have never had a cavity, and have not been to a dentist in 15 years. I brush every morning, eat a pretty healthy diet, don't smoke, and exercise regularly. I stopped flossing years ago because it seemed stupid, and as it turns out, flossing was dropped from HHS guidelines because there is no real evidence that it helps. (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/health/flossing-teeth-cavities.html)
I don't see a podiatrist, dermatologist, or cardiologist two times every year, so why would I go see a dentist that often?
You all should consider yourself lucky. A lot of it is genetic. I have shit teeth. Always have. I do not drink soda, and rarely eat sweets. I've had molar sealed and needed root canals under them. I brush and floss like a mofo and always get cavities. My spouse is much more laid back about his dental care and I think he's had one cavity in 10 years? My gums are beautiful and super healthy... my teeth, just hate life. It sucks.
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It can depend on your body and your saliva. My wife could brush everother day and not get a cavity. I brush 2-3 times a day (including with a sonic care) and occasionally get cavities. Our diet is basically the same.
When I complained about the fairness of that to my dentist he told me how much saliva is produced and it's pH has a large effect on tooth health. So some of it is beyond their (my) control
Do you drink a lot of water? I had a dentist a long time ago who told me that if you drink lots of water after eating/drinking, it helps rebalance the acidity in your mouth.
I'm also one who doesn't go to the dentist often. I brush twice a day, floss at night, and only drink water. I had about 4 years between dental cleanings and the dentist was shocked how good my teeth looked (I also had a lot of fillings when I was younger and had a crap diet, so it's not an issue of just genetics). It's now been about 7 years since my last dentist visit.
I do drink a lot of water. I have it for most meals and refill my water bottle at work a few times during the day
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I was doing a periodic background investigation on a co-worker (Law Enforcement). Speaking to one of his neighbors. One of my standard questions is does, X live above his means. Neighbor says, no X is in fact very frugal. I was actually stunned, I was not expecting that he lived large but I don't associate frugal with X. X is better than ok with money (has been around long enough to be a 401k millionaire at least before the last downturn.) but the office in no way considers him to be the frugal one. He's more penny wise pound foolish. He's the one with the timeshare that he can't find the time use, doesn't 100% max out his 401k but will tell you about the great deal he got from Khol's.
But then he lives in one of the "richer" subdivisions a couple of miles from me, likely compared to the rest of the neighborhood he is the frugal one.
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I was thinking about the whole dental care thing while in the shower this morning. I wonder how many of the folks who used not having insurance to avoid going to the dentist somehow managed to find enough for manicures, massages, parties, etc. I guess it's always about priorities.
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Or frequent little habits like beer and smokes. It adds up when a person's budget is tissue paper thin.
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My cousin hasn't been to a dentist except to get teeth pulled when in extreme pain in 30 years. But she always has money for cigarettes.
When I was in San Diego, many coworkers went to Mexico for dental work. The company I worked for covered it (self-insured), because it was cheaper than US costs.
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Came back after a break to see my favourite thread had been ended. Hard to believe it's over, but the new one is off to a good start.
Anyway, back on topic. Today I learned my coworker spends almost $1500/mo on her kids activities. 2 kids, both in organized sports. There's practice, league fees, equipment fees, one-on-one coaching, tournaments, travel... She also gets up at 4am several times a week to take the kids to practice and spends most evenings/weekends at the pool or rink. Makes me glad my kids are into cheap activities like non-competitive community association classes and going to the library!
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We have a generous early retirement program, and a significant number of people who “retire” and return on contract often on reduced hours or project work. One coworker “retired” in the fall, but was at the Xmas party with her team. She’s working a full schedule doing the same work as before. She proud of her frugality because she drives (nurses) a 12 year old Toyota, but the reason that she and her husband can’t make it on the their two professional salaries (she’s pulling 120k and his is at a higher grade) is they’ve been paying tuition for three adult children out of cash flow (no savings)PLUS four mortgages (their own plus three). The reason they still have a mortgage is they pulled out their equity for three down payments. I hope the third income stream keeps their head above water longer than the next department reorganization which will end her contract.
Are the three other mortgages on rental properties?
Sadly no. They bought a house for each kid. Started with buying for the one who went away to school and has continued for the two who’re attending in this city, to be “fair”.
Rent from fellow student roommates are supposed to be covering mortgage and property taxes. Houses are jointly owned with the kids and supposed to be fully turned over once each kid graduates.
Mom was agonizing over what to do about the kid who dropped out, but thankfully kid went back the following year with only one year tuition wasted.
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We have a generous early retirement program, and a significant number of people who “retire” and return on contract often on reduced hours or project work. One coworker “retired” in the fall, but was at the Xmas party with her team. She’s working a full schedule doing the same work as before. She proud of her frugality because she drives (nurses) a 12 year old Toyota, but the reason that she and her husband can’t make it on the their two professional salaries (she’s pulling 120k and his is at a higher grade) is they’ve been paying tuition for three adult children out of cash flow (no savings)PLUS four mortgages (their own plus three). The reason they still have a mortgage is they pulled out their equity for three down payments. I hope the third income stream keeps their head above water longer than the next department reorganization which will end her contract.
Are the three other mortgages on rental properties?
Sadly no. They bought a house for each kid. Started with buying for the one who went away to school and has continued for the two who’re attending in this city, to be “fair”.
Rent from fellow student roommates are supposed to be covering mortgage and property taxes. Houses are jointly owned with the kids and supposed to be fully turned over once each kid graduates.
Mom was agonizing over what to do about the kid who dropped out, but thankfully kid went back the following year with only one year tuition wasted.
I knew someone who bought a condo in a college town when the oldest of his three went to college. The expectation was always that any child who chose to go to that school (and all three did) would live there. He figured out that the monthly mortgage ended up being a lot cheaper than a smaller dorm room would be and wouldn't require a meal plan. Plus mom and dad had a place to crash on football weekends. After the third kid graduated, he sold it for a small profit.
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I was thinking about the whole dental care thing while in the shower this morning. I wonder how many of the folks who used not having insurance to avoid going to the dentist somehow managed to find enough for manicures, massages, parties, etc. I guess it's always about priorities.
Well, when we didn't have dental or health insurance, it was because we were poor.
We didn't have the insurance because, you know, priorities. Like cheap food and cheap shelter.
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I knew someone who bought a condo in a college town when the oldest of his three went to college. The expectation was always that any child who chose to go to that school (and all three did) would live there. He figured out that the monthly mortgage ended up being a lot cheaper than a smaller dorm room would be and wouldn't require a meal plan. Plus mom and dad had a place to crash on football weekends. After the third kid graduated, he sold it for a small profit.
That investment makes sense and is relatively common around here. I contrast it with CW mortgaging (literally) her retirement.
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I was thinking about the whole dental care thing while in the shower this morning. I wonder how many of the folks who used not having insurance to avoid going to the dentist somehow managed to find enough for manicures, massages, parties, etc. I guess it's always about priorities.
Well, when we didn't have dental or health insurance, it was because we were poor.
We didn't have the insurance because, you know, priorities. Like cheap food and cheap shelter.
+1
When I got to the point I could afford both insurance and food/shelter, I bought health insurance, not dental.
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I knew someone who bought a condo in a college town when the oldest of his three went to college. The expectation was always that any child who chose to go to that school (and all three did) would live there. He figured out that the monthly mortgage ended up being a lot cheaper than a smaller dorm room would be and wouldn't require a meal plan. Plus mom and dad had a place to crash on football weekends. After the third kid graduated, he sold it for a small profit.
That investment makes sense and is relatively common around here. I contrast it with CW mortgaging (literally) her retirement.
When we started house hunting, the first place we looked at was a 2BR condo like this. One of our pick-up volleyball friends was finally finishing his PhD and his parents were selling the 2BR condo. He didn't even know if the dishwasher worked, because he owned 1 bowl, 1 pot, 1 fork, 1 knife, 1 spoon, 1 plate.
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I was thinking about the whole dental care thing while in the shower this morning. I wonder how many of the folks who used not having insurance to avoid going to the dentist somehow managed to find enough for manicures, massages, parties, etc. I guess it's always about priorities.
Well, when we didn't have dental or health insurance, it was because we were poor.
We didn't have the insurance because, you know, priorities. Like cheap food and cheap shelter.
Hey @SwordGuy, I thought about that in the shower, too. When I was writing my post I found myself heading down the beer, cannabis and cigarettes path. I decided to just shut up and stop writing. Sorry I didn't get to that thought.
FWIW - I put myself through college by working three jobs, so I really do get it. Fortunately, I was six months into my first career job when I was diagnosed with cancer. I had taken the job after getting an AA at a Junior College. I needed to earn more money to continue my schooling, so I got a "real" job, even though I only planned for it to be temporary. Not only did I have excellent medical coverage, but they paid me longer than they had to and let me keep my company car the whole time I was out. And they held my job for me. Amazing.
Holy shit! It's revelation time almost forty years later. I've always wished I'd somehow figured out a way to stay in school. At times I have really, really regrettted the path I chose, but I did not want to take on student debt. Writing this in response to your comment made me realize if I had done so, I wouldn't have had that insurance coverage and my ass would have been grass. Wow! How have I never put that together before now? Thanks for the nudge, SwordGuy. That was a total paradigm shift. Double Wow! I need to go sit and think about this for a while...
P.S. Sorry for the semi-hijack. I did not see that coming.
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FWIW - I put myself through college by working three jobs, so I really do get it. Fortunately, I was six months into my first career job when I was diagnosed with cancer. I had taken the job after getting an AA at a Junior College. I needed to earn more money to continue my schooling, so I got a "real" job, even though I only planned for it to be temporary. Not only did I have excellent medical coverage, but they paid me longer than they had to and let me keep my company car the whole time I was out. And they held my job for me. Amazing.
Holy shit! It's revelation time almost forty years later. I've always wished I'd somehow figured out a way to stay in school. At times I have really, really regrettted the path I chose, but I did not want to take on student debt. Writing this in response to your comment made me realize if I had done so, I wouldn't have had that insurance coverage and my ass would have been grass. Wow! How have I never put that together before now? Thanks for the nudge, SwordGuy. That was a total paradigm shift. Double Wow! I need to go sit and think about this for a while...
Scary, isn't it? Either choice would have been "the right thing to do", but one of them could have ended up with you bankrupt or dead.
It's why I'm for things like affordable health care for everyone.
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Wow, @Dicey. What a story. I’m so glad things worked out for you as they did.
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I knew someone who bought a condo in a college town when the oldest of his three went to college. The expectation was always that any child who chose to go to that school (and all three did) would live there. He figured out that the monthly mortgage ended up being a lot cheaper than a smaller dorm room would be and wouldn't require a meal plan. Plus mom and dad had a place to crash on football weekends. After the third kid graduated, he sold it for a small profit.
Similar at my work - but they only bought when their child actually started university. Apparently they'll end up making some profit from it too, but they're doing it mainly because it was the cheapest way to get decent-standard housing.
Meanwhile, I've heard of other people moving _country_ to follow their child to university. Some people don't seem to be able to let go...
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ptf
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I was thinking about the whole dental care thing while in the shower this morning. I wonder how many of the folks who used not having insurance to avoid going to the dentist somehow managed to find enough for manicures, massages, parties, etc. I guess it's always about priorities.
Well, when we didn't have dental or health insurance, it was because we were poor.
We didn't have the insurance because, you know, priorities. Like cheap food and cheap shelter.
In Norway dental insurance doesn't exist as far as I know. At least, DH and I don't have it. We go to the dentist once a year for a full check with pictures and cleaning. Costs approx 100$++ per checkup per person. Once I had a root canal treatment with crown and had to pay it myself, about 600$. That was at a cheap, but good dentist. I also had a tooth pulled out. And I had 4 wisdom teeth surgically removed at 140$ a piece. Although those were for a small part (30% or so) covered by a government grant.
If you want to go somewhere cheaper, you can go to the school where they teach dentists to be. And become a practice object for the students with professor supervision. I haven't dared to do that yet.
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I knew someone who bought a condo in a college town when the oldest of his three went to college. The expectation was always that any child who chose to go to that school (and all three did) would live there. He figured out that the monthly mortgage ended up being a lot cheaper than a smaller dorm room would be and wouldn't require a meal plan. Plus mom and dad had a place to crash on football weekends. After the third kid graduated, he sold it for a small profit.
Similar at my work - but they only bought when their child actually started university. Apparently they'll end up making some profit from it too, but they're doing it mainly because it was the cheapest way to get decent-standard housing.
Meanwhile, I've heard of other people moving _country_ to follow their child to university. Some people don't seem to be able to let go...
That’s very normal here in China. At my husband’s international school, several families have bought condos near the school for their Elementary School-Aged child. These condos go for around half a million USD for a three-bedroom unit.
I have also heard of parents who move country to follow their child to college, then buy two condos in the same building because the kid doesn’t want to live with mom.
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I was thinking about the whole dental care thing while in the shower this morning. I wonder how many of the folks who used not having insurance to avoid going to the dentist somehow managed to find enough for manicures, massages, parties, etc. I guess it's always about priorities.
Well, when we didn't have dental or health insurance, it was because we were poor.
We didn't have the insurance because, you know, priorities. Like cheap food and cheap shelter.
In Norway dental insurance doesn't exist as far as I know. At least, DH and I don't have it. We go to the dentist once a year for a full check with pictures and cleaning. Costs approx 100$++ per checkup per person. Once I had a root canal treatment with crown and had to pay it myself, about 600$. That was at a cheap, but good dentist. I also had a tooth pulled out. And I had 4 wisdom teeth surgically removed at 140$ a piece. Although those were for a small part (30% or so) covered by a government grant.
If you want to go somewhere cheaper, you can go to the school where they teach dentists to be. And become a practice object for the students with professor supervision. I haven't dared to do that yet.
Wow, @Linda_Norway , those prices are really low! In the US, just the copays can exceed your entire bill. I'm sure my last crown cost over $1200 and the little sucker chipped within a year. The dentist won't budge on replacement unless I pay for it all over again. She says it's likely to just happen again. She bought this practice when my original dentist retired. Grrr. Time to find a new dentist, but the prices are pretty standard for the Bay Area.
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I was thinking about the whole dental care thing while in the shower this morning. I wonder how many of the folks who used not having insurance to avoid going to the dentist somehow managed to find enough for manicures, massages, parties, etc. I guess it's always about priorities.
Well, when we didn't have dental or health insurance, it was because we were poor.
We didn't have the insurance because, you know, priorities. Like cheap food and cheap shelter.
In Norway dental insurance doesn't exist as far as I know. At least, DH and I don't have it. We go to the dentist once a year for a full check with pictures and cleaning. Costs approx 100$++ per checkup per person. Once I had a root canal treatment with crown and had to pay it myself, about 600$. That was at a cheap, but good dentist. I also had a tooth pulled out. And I had 4 wisdom teeth surgically removed at 140$ a piece. Although those were for a small part (30% or so) covered by a government grant.
If you want to go somewhere cheaper, you can go to the school where they teach dentists to be. And become a practice object for the students with professor supervision. I haven't dared to do that yet.
Wow, @Linda_Norway , those prices are really low! In the US, just the copays can exceed your entire bill. I'm sure my last crown cost over $1200 and the little sucker chipped within a year. The dentist won't budge on replacement unless I pay for it all over again. She says it's likely to just happen again. She bought this practice when my original dentist retired. Grrr. Time to find a new dentist, but the prices are pretty standard for the Bay Area.
In the Netherlands prices are similar. A check-up + Xray + cleaning is around €80. Just the check-up is about €25 and I usually go for the whole package once every 2 years with cheap checks in between. I don't need to be exposed to X rays all the time.
These are commercial prices and dentists are still rich, but the prices are capped by the government at reasonable levels At €2000/year our tuition is significantly lower so medical professionals don't have massive student loans to pay off.
Dental insurance does exist in here but it's basically a scam for poor people who can't afford to pay €150 out of pocket for a root canal or €450 for a crown. Self insuring is much cheaper, dental insurance is €15-20/month.
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The Fortran and hoarding references remind me of the Fortran class I took in college in 1996. The professor was a hoarder whose office was filled to the ceiling with stacks of papers and binders. He carved a small path from the door to the desk. Anyone visiting during office hours had to stand next to the seven-foot stacks of papers. By the way, it turns out while I'm really good at following instructions, I'm awful at writing instructions for a computer.
At work, the walls, which have been gray or off-white for a long time, are now being painted random colors. Some are now yellow, some are green, some are various shades of blue and red. One conference room is red and black, and it looks like the Twin Peaks dream sequences. It's as if the bosses looked at a color wheel and said "We'll take one of each."
I learned Fortran, the worst part was making the punchcards!
That was the late 70's. :-)
No, maybe the worst was watching some one drop a stack of 350 punchcards.
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The Fortran and hoarding references remind me of the Fortran class I took in college in 1996. The professor was a hoarder whose office was filled to the ceiling with stacks of papers and binders. He carved a small path from the door to the desk. Anyone visiting during office hours had to stand next to the seven-foot stacks of papers. By the way, it turns out while I'm really good at following instructions, I'm awful at writing instructions for a computer.
At work, the walls, which have been gray or off-white for a long time, are now being painted random colors. Some are now yellow, some are green, some are various shades of blue and red. One conference room is red and black, and it looks like the Twin Peaks dream sequences. It's as if the bosses looked at a color wheel and said "We'll take one of each."
I learned Fortran, the worst part was making the punchcards!
That was the late 70's. :-)
No, maybe the worst was watching some one drop a stack of 350 punchcards.
I'm so glad punchcards are before my time. I know if I was alive then, I would have a bumbersticker reading "punchcard life"
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I was thinking about the whole dental care thing while in the shower this morning. I wonder how many of the folks who used not having insurance to avoid going to the dentist somehow managed to find enough for manicures, massages, parties, etc. I guess it's always about priorities.
Well, when we didn't have dental or health insurance, it was because we were poor.
We didn't have the insurance because, you know, priorities. Like cheap food and cheap shelter.
In Norway dental insurance doesn't exist as far as I know. At least, DH and I don't have it. We go to the dentist once a year for a full check with pictures and cleaning. Costs approx 100$++ per checkup per person. Once I had a root canal treatment with crown and had to pay it myself, about 600$. That was at a cheap, but good dentist. I also had a tooth pulled out. And I had 4 wisdom teeth surgically removed at 140$ a piece. Although those were for a small part (30% or so) covered by a government grant.
If you want to go somewhere cheaper, you can go to the school where they teach dentists to be. And become a practice object for the students with professor supervision. I haven't dared to do that yet.
In my city in the USA, the prices you describe for just the annual cleaning are less than the insurance premiums for dental insurance. The price you quoted for a root canal and the wisdom teeth are lower than what I had to pay for my daughter's, and that's even *with* the dental and health insurance.
One of the things that cause costs to be grossly inflated here are all the extra tests and office visits that are forced on you as a condition of getting the treatment you need. Every dental service provider is a specialist, so you can't get a diagnosis AND the root canal AND the crown done at the same place. Every single provider insists on repeating the X-ray and billing you for the X-ray. They are not capable of using an X-ray taken by somebody else just a few days before. They also require three office visits apiece: one to determine whether you need the service they provide (the answer is always yes!), the second to perform the service, and the third to follow up. That's a total of eight separate office visits per dental surgery. They refuse to perform the work unless you do the office visits and the X-rays with them, and you'd better believe that there's a bill attached for every single visit. This is why doctors' and dentists' offices are packed and nobody is accepting new patients: everyone has to dip his or her beak not just once, but several times.
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I'm surprised that they forced your daughter to get repeated x-rays. Isn't that dangerous?
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I'm surprised that they forced your daughter to get repeated x-rays. Isn't that dangerous?
For the patient, yes. But the patient's well-being is hardly a blip on Big Medical's radar screen. Patients exist for one purpose: to generate cash flow for insurance companies AND medical providers.
When I was desperately searching for a way to address my hearing problems, I ended up paying five separate people, two of whom were ENT doctors, to look into my ears and tell me they couldn't see any problem, and that they'd have to look at the audiogram. I had to have the audiogram test done twice because they're declared artificially invalid after six months (do they expect the hearing problem to IMPROVE?) Then, despite massive evidence that my hearing loss was due to a disease (which is covered by the policy I have and have been paying for these last 20 years), the insurance company turned down the claim for hearing aids in blatant but routine violation of their own policy. Result: more than 18 months of effort, two sets of tests paid for, five hearing professionals paid for including the assistant to the ENT who did nothing but look in my ears, and NOTHING. No hearing aids, just a couple thousand dollars in extra payments to medical professionals and their various test services.
By contrast, I started training the Venomous Spaz Beast as a hearing ear dog, and spent roughly the same amount of time and money, and now I have a fantastic service dog. A Chihuahua with a brain the size of a walnut is outperforming Big Medical.
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I missed the punchcards era by a year or so at college. Thank goodness.
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Graduation, early 80's: punch cards raining down from the top of an 8 story dorm. Good times.
I've gone to the same dentist for over 20 years and have had 2 crowns. Same office, no need to go to a specialist, and the initial visit, temp crown, permanent crown, and follow up were all included in the one charge. They do root canals, too. Odd how different some areas of the US are.
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When we were young many jobs didn’t have dental insurance. Regardless the 5 of us never neglected our teeth. There were times we paid on the bill for months.
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My dentist's office actually has a computer screen in front of the patient, and when they schedule follow up visits, I can clearly see the Outlook calendar, with each patient's name and a DOLLAR amount next to the name. That's the OOP goal for each sucker.
My parents did not provide me with dental care from 6-16 years of age. Not b/c of finances, they are immigrants and when the Italian dentist they knew retired, they simply couldn't find another one for a decade. Luckily, other than a few cavities, my teeth were OK, so I got routine care for a few years, and then didn't make it a priority until my mid 30's. Again, fairly lucky, some cavities, a small inlay, and pulling my upper molars b/c my impacted wisdom teeth were pushing down and caused a pocket where tooth decay occurred. From this point forward, I go 2X/year, same office, everything's great. Until three years ago, when the dentist walks in w/a stern look, and informs me that the gum loss on an upper front tooth is severe and will need a periodontist to review and operate. I mean, I could see that the gumline was higher, but it's always been that way, and the tooth is SLIGHTLY crooked, but no one said anything for over seven years! I casually ask if perhaps an implant makes more sense, and I can actually see the dollar signs in the dentist's eyes. When I learn that it's a several month process, without a noticeable tooth, AND will cost me $5K OOP after insurance, I was like, nope, let's save this tooth instead. It took them over a year to update my chart to remove the icon for the implant, just b/c I asked a question.
They have a perio on staff, so I make an appointment. She's all doom and gloom, and informs me that the odds are good that I will need to have 5-8 upper front teeth removed! By that point, I was done, so I told the office manager I was getting a second opinion. My insurance covered ONE perio office in the area, who luckily had great reviews. His office is completely different, and we talk about options, he explains that I will need to do something, but it's not anywhere near as dire as they told me, and it's also not incredibly urgent. (Open enrollment at work was coming up, so I wanted to wait and see if it would make sense to get better dental coverage prior to the surgery.)
Long story short, he recommends a deep cleaning ($175 OOP), which helps a lot, but we ultimately do the surgery 6 months later ($1,350 OOP), followed by quarterly cleanings ($90 OOP) at his office. The cleanings cost more there, but they teach me how to properly brush my teeth, show me some tools I didn't know about, and those cleanings were 45 minutes of actual cleaning like I've never had done before - she offers topical numbing each time, and you actually do want that, she goes to town! My gums are amazing now, the damage has been mitigated with excellent success. :)
However, I am required to go see my dentist once/year, mostly so he can bill insurance for another round of X-rays. Then he comes in, pushes down on my teeth like he's trying to break them, shakes his head and tells me how it's a miracle that my teeth and gums are so healthy now, and then tries to suggest that implant or braces for that slightly crooked tooth. I give him a blank look, then ask "cosmetic?" He says yes, and I say I'm fine with how my teeth look. He shakes his head and leaves. We do this every damn year. The only reason I don't switch is b/c my insurance pretty much only pays for those chain places, and my experience w/those has been far worse.
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I’m surprised to hear of such bad experiences with dentists. Mine does not push xrays every year and initially monitored what later turned into a need to replace two fillings. I was actually the one sort of pushing to have them done sooner rather than later as I wanted to get everything possible done during the two weeks I had in between jobs.
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I’m surprised to hear of such bad experiences with dentists. Mine does not push xrays every year and initially monitored what later turned into a need to replace two fillings. I was actually the one sort of pushing to have them done sooner rather than later as I wanted to get everything possible done during the two weeks I had in between jobs.
I went to a rock-bottom hmo dentist this year to try it out. The insurance is better/cheaper For big stuff but you have to use a very small list of participating dentists. They can not afford nice offices/equipment.
The first time I went they took extensive xrays to the point I started to research how often I can skip xrays. So I went in the second time ready to fight them on the xrays but they just said “ok”. I’m very low risk for carries since I’ve never had one and I don’t even brush as often as I should. It could be genetics, but somehow the rest of my immediate family has multiple fillings. Somehow I got lucky with genetics or oral flora (inoculated with an extremely beneficial bacteria strain that outcompetes acid pooping bacteria and has no ill effects... is that possible? Cause if it is maybe we can develop a “vaccine”
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I was thinking about starting a new thread to complain about my recent dental experience, but now I can just piggyback on this dental foam.
To start with, my parent is a dental professional, and was always very harsh on my visits in childhood. I thought dental appoints would be relatively smooth sailing now, but I was wrong.
Six months ago, my two kids and I went to our appointment as usual, but instead of being seen by our dentist (who was there!) we were seen by his new partner, Dr. Awful. Who: - Told me I needed to get my kids to stop breathe through their mouths at all times, even when sleeping, so their mouths would grow bigger.
- Said that breathing through the nose cures allergies, ADD and ADHD.
- Alleged that my 6 y/o has a tongue tie. "This will cause speech impediments and eating issues." He's been a precocious speaker forever, is bilingual and breastfed for a year without issue.
- Also alleged that my 4 y/o has a tongue tie. He did have a speech delay, and was seen by a speech-language pathologist for over a year. He was specifically evaluated for tongue tie, and did not have one.
- Had her dog on her lap for most of our visit. Not a service dog. I'm allergic; I was never asked if I wanted the dog 2 feet from me.
Fast forward to this week. I specifically requested an appointment with my dentist, and confirmed the day before that we would be seeing him. As soon as I'm in my chair for my cleanings, Dr. Awful swoops into the bay next to me where my children are being seen and evaluates them, confirming all her prior theories she spouted at me last time. Her hygienist (RDH Awful) does not tell me anything about my children's actual teeth, but instead spends 5 minutes telling me all about how great Dr. Awful is.
Oh and now untreated tongue ties cause ADHD too. And sleep apnea.
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Wow, I think merula's post really puts us into foam territory.
I think my dentist has been a big churner. For a couple decades, no problem. I move here four years ago and have had to several old fillings redone and one new one. I asked for one to be orange and one to be black.
We have an issue with some tuition repayments being delayed and while some just roll with it, one has been really concerned. Then I hear him talk about new firearms, new carpet for no apparent reason, etc. He seems to do pretty good, but maybe hasn't fully connected all the dots.
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Speaking of children and dentists, I would give my children $100 per year if they didn't have cavities. It was a win-win! I didn't have to spend any more time carting them back and forth and their teeth stayed in better shape with careful brushing.
Is it bad that I hoped that they had impacted wisdom teeth as teenagers as my health insurance then covered the extraction?
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Is it bad that I hoped that they had impacted wisdom teeth as teenagers as my health insurance then covered the extraction?
Yes. I'm reporting you to the authorities. Expect someone to knock on your door any second to remove your (presumably) adult children from your home. ;)
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I don’t carry dental insurance. It has such low maximum benefits, and my family’s teeth are so healthy, I don’t see the point.
I got my dentist to agree to extend the time between x-rays after he had seen me for 18 months and he realized I was telling the truth about never having a cavity in my life. Every time I go in he tells me I have the best teeth he’ll see all day, just like all the other dentists I have had. I think I have dragoncar’s strain of mouth bacteria.
My orthodontist BIL recommended that I be the one to share food, etc with our kids to see if we could get them my mouth germs instead of my wife’s. We’ll see.
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Speaking of children and dentists, I would give my children $100 per year if they didn't have cavities. It was a win-win! I didn't have to spend any more time carting them back and forth and their teeth stayed in better shape with careful brushing.
Is it bad that I hoped that they had impacted wisdom teeth as teenagers as my health insurance then covered the extraction?
Can't you let their current dentist take an x-ray of the wisdom teeth area when they are 17, to see whether those teeth are laying horizontally? Then they will guaranteed give problems later and can maybe be removed preventively.
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Is it bad that I hoped that they had impacted wisdom teeth as teenagers as my health insurance then covered the extraction?
My wisdom teeth had been coming in in bits and spurts for a couple of years. Just before I lost coverage under my parents' dental insurance I found a doctor who would go ahead and take all four of them at once even though it was really just the one that was growing in sideways. I think I had the surgery (which I woke up in the middle of...fun times) in January and turned 21 in February.
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My dentist's office actually has a computer screen in front of the patient, and when they schedule follow up visits, I can clearly see the Outlook calendar, with each patient's name and a DOLLAR amount next to the name. That's the OOP goal for each sucker.
Wow...you can see other pt's names? Sounds like a HIPPA violation to me. Pt info is supposed to be confidential.
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I was thinking about starting a new thread to complain about my recent dental experience, but now I can just piggyback on this dental foam.
To start with, my parent is a dental professional, and was always very harsh on my visits in childhood. I thought dental appoints would be relatively smooth sailing now, but I was wrong.
Six months ago, my two kids and I went to our appointment as usual, but instead of being seen by our dentist (who was there!) we were seen by his new partner, Dr. Awful. Who: - Told me I needed to get my kids to stop breathe through their mouths at all times, even when sleeping, so their mouths would grow bigger.
- Said that breathing through the nose cures allergies, ADD and ADHD.
- Alleged that my 6 y/o has a tongue tie. "This will cause speech impediments and eating issues." He's been a precocious speaker forever, is bilingual and breastfed for a year without issue.
- Also alleged that my 4 y/o has a tongue tie. He did have a speech delay, and was seen by a speech-language pathologist for over a year. He was specifically evaluated for tongue tie, and did not have one.
- Had her dog on her lap for most of our visit. Not a service dog. I'm allergic; I was never asked if I wanted the dog 2 feet from me.
Fast forward to this week. I specifically requested an appointment with my dentist, and confirmed the day before that we would be seeing him. As soon as I'm in my chair for my cleanings, Dr. Awful swoops into the bay next to me where my children are being seen and evaluates them, confirming all her prior theories she spouted at me last time. Her hygienist (RDH Awful) does not tell me anything about my children's actual teeth, but instead spends 5 minutes telling me all about how great Dr. Awful is.
Oh and now untreated tongue ties cause ADHD too. And sleep apnea.
Realistically, 1, you should consider finding a new dentist. If not, you need to refuse care from that provider and 2, file a complaint with the licensing board.
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Meryl’s, that’s awful and I would find a new dentist.
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Realistically, 1, you should consider finding a new dentist. If not, you need to refuse care from that provider and 2, file a complaint with the licensing board.
Definitely considering finding a new dentist. I'd love to report her, but I'm not sure if her behavior is reportable. The dog thing is weird, but in honesty I didn't say anything in the moment (and it wasn't there when I went back). The rest seems to be her professional opinion, and while it seems crazy, it's also clear from internet searching that she's not alone in those opinions.
(What I can't figure out is why all these professionals and peer-reviewed journals don't see the causation <> correlation issues with "small mouth" and "mouth breathing". Seems to me that larger mouths would be correlated with larger airway anatomy, decreasing the likelihood of mouth breathing. So larger mouths are negatively correlated with mouth breathing, but claiming that no mouth breathing CAUSES larger mouths would require randomized studies that don't appear to be done. Plus you can't exactly double-blind breathing technique. Nothing I've ever read in anthropology or human anatomy would suggest that cranial anatomy is influenced by an individual's behavior, outside of deliberate modification.)
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My coworker has told me in the course of a few few weeks, that his $400 Apple watch was for work, his $1,200 Apple watch was for home, he's frustrated that he's out of money by the 5th day of the month, last month he couldn't pay his $150 cell phone bill (did you know watches have sims now) and had to pay a reactivation fee to turn his service back on. And cried when he saw a Disney commercial because he couldn't afford to take his kid.
I tried to give my coworker small bits of advice but did a whole lot of nothing. The whole thing is just wild to me. On a weekly basis my coworkers are always in shock and ahhh that I paid off my house fast (like it's mmm magic).
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MAybe Billy B's co-worker and kid can see a Disney movie on his watch screen ?
So yeah, I work with a guy who is ~68 yrs old, been in government service for 40+ years. Often talks about how he'll get 80% of his pay when retired, and happy he is under the old retirement system because he didn't have to put money into Social security, nor fund a 401K like the younger folks on the new retirement system [ CSRS vs FERS] . So his base pay is about 70K, plus add another 10K in shift differential, sunday, + holiday work. He could have left years ago.
Lives w/ girlfriend , her house, he has no legal interest / ownership in it. She gets minimal income from a pension. Still has a small mortgage, a few hundred a month, which he partially pays for.
* They bought an 80's Chevrolet El Camino car for about $3000 a couple years ago, for her supposedly. In the last 2 yrs he has spent At Least $17000 on a new performance engine, body and paintwork, exhaust , various interior parts, and paying all sorts of mechanics since he will not attempt to do any of this install and upgrade work himself.
* No money set aside for retirement
* They bought a brand new 20+ foot towable camper trailer about 4 yrs ago, retail was $20K plus, I am unsure of the actual amount , except they are still paying on it, and they owe more than it is worth... And they have Never used it.... Not even Once ! .... but he wants to put new tires on it in case they try to sell it. Literally the only miles on the thing are the 50 miles between the RV dealer and their home. It's never been slept in, not even once out in the yard.
* The 60" OLED 4K [?] TV he bought a bit over a year ago has an issue, out of warranty, "gonna need a new one"
* Chevy money pit needs tinted windows, quoted $400, "since the back window is concave curved, tricky installation"
Genuinely a nice guy, and I've tried to make some suggestions , but it falls on deaf ears.
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Ya I'm seeing a trend. I had coworkers that wouldn't retire after 26-30 years with there pension, so they can do lots of overtime or so the X does not get it.
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Co-worker moved to our country at age 30. Always complains about how his income is too low (it must be more than the median Dutch income though). But he has four kids, aged 4, 12, 20 and 25 and all of them live at home and go to school or study, so I can understand why he feels pinched.
But I talked to him on Friday and somehow the conversation came to pension plans. He apparently didn't know that in our country old pensions (from previous jobs) stay intact (they just don't grow anymore - when you worked there you built up a certain claim and that claim will stay, at most adapt to inflation but that's it). So I hope the conversation has stimulated him to look at his combined pension benefits. Hopefully that will make him feel a bit better about his future after age 67.
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Ya I'm seeing a trend. I had coworkers that wouldn't retire after 26-30 years with there pension, so they can do lots of overtime or so the X does not get it.
ex-coworker at supervisor level , finally retired a year ago at 72 - Had gotten divorced ~15 years ago. Divorce agreement stipulated he would give his ex-wife 1/2 of his retirement annuity. He got remarried, and stayed working. Didn't want to give anything to the ex-wife.
A few years ago he became erratic in turning in maintenance +operations paperwork , personnel paperwork-requests for time off, etc.. Would tell the same stories a lot, like twice or more in the same day to the same people, often. People thought maybe senility was creeping in. But he had lots of knowledge of archaic decades old electrical systems installed in the 1930's thru 1960's and forgotten or unknown by most others, and those systems were routing power to current national defense facilities. Management was getting frustrated as they couldn't meet the "metrics" without his workcenters paperwork, even though the workers were doing the work.
Management solution, as they could not or would not force retirement, was to put him in charge of a 12 hr Graveyard crew shift. Management probably Thinking the graveyard routine will sap his will to continue working. So a new crew of frustrated workers under him. Within the year he had called in 3 , possibly more times at 2-3am [ shift turnover @ midnight ] , not knowing where he was, in his truck 30 miles away in the wrong direction. I pointed out to his boss, this was reckless on their part - sooner or later he would drive the wrong way on the highway and cause a wreck. A few months later they finally moved him to a dayshift "special project" where he lingered for a few months until his current wife convinced him to retire.
He worked at that location over 40 yrs, nearly 50 in all . On his last day, They gave him a cake at the noon shift turnover [ several of the folks who would have shown up to wish him well were therfore otherwise engaged in higher prioriy work ] --- out in the dirty locker filled hallway, next to the freight elevator and candy machines.......
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Overheard co-workers talking about how the stock market is down and why there is no point in investing or saving.
CW1 The market is crashing. Apple is lowering it's outlook for the year.
CW2 See that's why it is not smart to invest. Why save any money if you are just going to lose it in the stock market?
....conversation switched to all the shopping done over the holidays.
I just bit my tongue and didn't say anything.
I would have this need to post some stock market charts around the office, marked with $1,000 in vested here is $2,300 to today. Save and Invest for Tomorrow!
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But mostly I find it sad that we isolate this very important aspect of health care and people legitimately have complications and die because of it at times. Glad this lady is catching up on the care she needs.
I agree with this. But don't tell that to the dentists in private practice. If in a fairly low dentist to population area, dentists can work a 4 day work week and bank $400K+ net without being all that great of a business person and without working too hard.
I hope that's true, we are paying for my daughter to go through dental school.
It will cost pretty close to $300k by the time she's done.
She's in the later part of her first year.
There seems to be a real lack of basic understanding among them about the state of most people's finances. They don't understand why people can't/wont pay hundreds or thousands of dollars a year for dental care out of pocket. After all, if you make half a mil a year working 4 days a week, you aren't going to understand why Johnny who works 55 hours/week at the local auto parts store cancelled his routine cleaning because he didn't feel like he could afford it.
I go to the dentist twice a year,have a mouth fill of fillings but I never thought it out of my ability to pay even
earning just above median income. I never understood dental insurance either, unless you could get it to pay for implants it seems most people will pay more than they get back. Of course, that's the way insurance works,
but dental problems don't usually bankrupt a family.
It is accurate that many potential dental patients have misplaced priorities (would rather buy a new iPhone instead of going to the dentist twice a year for cleanings and checkups), but they are marketed to like crazy for those shiny, new objects. It is never going to be sexy to go see the hygienist no matter what marketing the dentist does. And those big corporate marketing machines are effective.
I have a couple of dentists as clients and they are really great people and great clients. But they are also out of touch with the everyday Joe in the US in the current economy.
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Coworker is an accountant. No idea how much she makes but I'm sure she's paid well. Her husband is a medical professional, probably also well paid. Her husband needs to pay €800 in professional registration fees that his employer will reimburse. Apparantly this is a big problem...
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Not to drag out the dental part... but I have great dental insurance through my job. Cost to me is like $120/year. I see my dentist twice a year for regular cleanings and checkups, x-rays once per year, panoramic x-ray every 2-3? I'm supposed to have a copay for each visit; they never charge me for it. Maybe the combination of having never had a cavity in my adult teeth with how little work the dentist has to do with me he is just being generous. I see him less than 3 minutes. His operation is a bit impressive, like 6-8 hygienists and one him. He recently partnered a second Dentist in to his practice and they are adding chairs. Both of them are pretty good guys, I wish everyone could have the same experience I do.
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Re dental insurance. I usually choose to carry it every other year. I usually have no cavities, but my teeth do get yellowish easily so once a year or so I like to get a proper cleanup. So I prefer to take the insurance, get a cleaning early and late in that year + the regular check ups and then cancel the dental insurance the year after. This year I expect one of my wisdom teeth to be pulled out (it's 'out there', so no jaw surgeon required) so I took the insurance again. Sure I can pay cash, but I make the calculation every year and if you expect some procedures to be needed it can save you money.
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I was reminded today of a colleague I worked with about 10 years ago.
He was in his 60s, obese with severe health complications, and was woefully under-qualified for his job.
He ended up needing surgery as a result of complications of his weight, and was off for months on paid sick leave.
After about a month, he contacted his manager and offered to do some work from home.
The manager was mildly interested, until the guy made it clear that he expected to be paid. In addition to being on sick leave at full salary.
Swing and a miss.
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Not overheard at work but overseen.
I work in a dog-friendly workplace. Mostly I don’t think of it because people don’t bring their dogs, but someone one row over has his fat dog in a big dog bed under his desk. I came back to my desk and before I sat down I happened to stare off into the distance and caught sight of the dog. As he started humping his dog bed.
Keep it classy, fido.
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A story from my wife. Her coworker is planning to get married... ON A GLACIER. We have some of those in Iceland you see, so she doesn't have to pay for the flight over. BUT she is living in her dad's garage with her 1 year old son and dreams of buying an apartment with her soon to be husband. But first GLACIER WEDDING yoloooo
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I was reminded today of a colleague I worked with about 10 years ago.
He was in his 60s, obese with severe health complications, and was woefully under-qualified for his job.
He ended up needing surgery as a result of complications of his weight, and was off for months on paid sick leave.
After about a month, he contacted his manager and offered to do some work from home.
The manager was mildly interested, until the guy made it clear that he expected to be paid. In addition to being on sick leave at full salary.
Swing and a miss.
The sense of entitlement is strong in this one....
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A story from my wife. Her coworker is planning to get married... ON A GLACIER. We have some of those in Iceland you see, so she doesn't have to pay for the flight over. BUT she is living in her dad's garage with her 1 year old son and dreams of buying an apartment with her soon to be husband. But first GLACIER WEDDING yoloooo
I'd kick in on a bag of ice from a nearby grocery store... ;)
Sounds like her weekly budget needs all the extra cash it can spare. Let 'em vacation to a glacier later and repeat their vows.
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I've overheard some discussions in the past between coworkers about those Funko Pop figurines, they always seemed dumb to me and I never understood the point (they just sit on a shelf!), but whatever. Live and let live.
Until yesterday. A coworker mentioned that a friend of his was looking to sell their Funko Pop collection and he shared a spreadsheet of everything that was for sale. The total listed for the entire collection was $1,700 dollars.
Some selected quotes from the Slack conversation:
OP: "the prices are extremely reasonable"
CW1: "I think prices are extremely reasonable isn't a thing that matters to this group"
CW1: "thanks to you, im going to be broke now"
CW2: "Do you need my bank account? How much for all of it?"
CW1: "I think between [CW2] and I, he's going to end up buying a new car at this rate"
CW3: "Between us 3, we should just buy this whole collection and sort out who wants what haha... total ask is $1700, he might take $1500 cash for the whole shebang"
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I don’t even know what funko pop figurines are. I’m a little reluctant to even google it...
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I had the same kind of gut reaction to something I heard about Bitcoin back in the 2009-2010 timeframe. Turns out I could have gambled and won big on that one had I a crystal ball/gray luck, but my risk tolerance just doesn’t let me play with speculation like that.
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yeah, they're basically this generation's Beanie Babies except pop-culture related? But at least with Beanie Babies the entire thing (not that it ever came to pass) was that they were "rare" and they would be worth more at some point in the future. As far as I know that's never been a thing with Funko Pop figurines.
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I remember in 1996 a person I met in Chicago was talking about their massive Beanie Baby collection. Another person was saying how collectible they were going to be and how smart they were to be trading them and that $200 on eBay for such-and-such was a great deal, etc. I didn't get it, still don't. I was right in my instincts.
My wife and her family had some sort of hookup back in the 90s on Beanie Babies, I dunno how. They ended up with a bunch of rare ones that they paid sticker or close to it for.
They ended up selling their whole collection and netted enough to take all 5 of them on a trip to Maui for a week (minus airfare, that was covered with dad's miles from work).
Pretty amazing.
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yeah, they're basically this generation's Beanie Babies except pop-culture related? But at least with Beanie Babies the entire thing (not that it ever came to pass) was that they were "rare" and they would be worth more at some point in the future. As far as I know that's never been a thing with Funko Pop figurines.
The fun thing about beanie babies is they were cute and fun to play with. At least it was a tangible thing to collect.
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A colleague bought himself a nice car. I think it was a Mercedes of some sort, but I don't really remember. I saw it once when we drove up at the same time to work--it was pretty, and he seemed to like it, so fine. Then, because he didn't want to get it too dirty (?), he bought himself a VW Jetta for "regular driving." I don't get it.
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I remember in 1996 a person I met in Chicago was talking about their massive Beanie Baby collection. Another person was saying how collectible they were going to be and how smart they were to be trading them and that $200 on eBay for such-and-such was a great deal, etc. I didn't get it, still don't. I was right in my instincts.
My wife and her family had some sort of hookup back in the 90s on Beanie Babies, I dunno how. They ended up with a bunch of rare ones that they paid sticker or close to it for.
They ended up selling their whole collection and netted enough to take all 5 of them on a trip to Maui for a week (minus airfare, that was covered with dad's miles from work).
Pretty amazing.
This reminds me of in the baseball card craze in the early 90s (I believe it may have started late 80s). I was working with a guy who talked about his son who was collecting baseball cards as an "investment", how great that was and how this would fund his college education. I didn't have the heart to tell him that it was rarity that made them valuable (my husband is a collector but not of baseball cards) and if everyone was collecting cards as an investment, that didn't make them rare. I left the place shortly after and never knew what happened when the market went bust.
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yeah, they're basically this generation's Beanie Babies except pop-culture related? But at least with Beanie Babies the entire thing (not that it ever came to pass) was that they were "rare" and they would be worth more at some point in the future. As far as I know that's never been a thing with Funko Pop figurines.
The fun thing about beanie babies is they were cute and fun to play with. At least it was a tangible thing to collect.
Funko Pops are also tangible. I have 4 of them on my desk right now. I don't see them as an investment, but as something that I like that represents my interests. Do you know anyone who has movie posters or prints of artwork they like? It's the same deal.
Sorry, I wasn't following the conversation well. Just ignore me... i'm really tired.
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I remember in 1996 a person I met in Chicago was talking about their massive Beanie Baby collection. Another person was saying how collectible they were going to be and how smart they were to be trading them and that $200 on eBay for such-and-such was a great deal, etc. I didn't get it, still don't. I was right in my instincts.
My wife and her family had some sort of hookup back in the 90s on Beanie Babies, I dunno how. They ended up with a bunch of rare ones that they paid sticker or close to it for.
They ended up selling their whole collection and netted enough to take all 5 of them on a trip to Maui for a week (minus airfare, that was covered with dad's miles from work).
Pretty amazing.
This reminds me of in the baseball card craze in the early 90s (I believe it may have started late 80s). I was working with a guy who talked about his son who was collecting baseball cards as an "investment", how great that was and how this would fund his college education. I didn't have the heart to tell him that it was rarity that made them valuable (my husband is a collector but not of baseball cards) and if everyone was collecting cards as an investment, that didn't make them rare. I left the place shortly after and never knew what happened when the market went bust.
Reminds me of someone I knew I high school whose parents bought a special Christmas Barbie every year and stored it away in a closet as her college “investment”. Even as I kid I thought it was ridiculous.
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I have those damn barbies. They were never an investment, but they stayed unopened to "preserve them". (Which was OK because they were display dolls.)
They are my go-to white elephant gift now. I just grab one from the doll shelf.
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I don’t even know what funko pop figurines are. I’m a little reluctant to even google it...
Haha - Don't !
Picture a "bobblehead" figurine that your local major metropolitan sports franchise/ stadium hands out to every fan thru the gates on a certain home game night. But the heads don't bobble and graphics are probably better.
I have a friend who has a bunch of these funnko-pop dolls, many in triplicate. Dude, if you found 3 of the DarthVader figurines at the local toy store , how rare can they possibly be ? He does have one he is rather proud of, he paid a premium [ I think $18 ]- it is a lady actress from a short lived TV show - that he bought for his wife, as she is a fan of the show. They actually only did make a few of those particular actress figurines [ probably worth $26 ]
Same guy will look up a Star Wars figure that he owns , and has seen advertised for sale on E-bay and say "look it's worth $100 " . I have then had him drill down the parameters of the search to find the same items that have Actually Sold on E-bay, and it's usually well less than $100 that they actually traded hands for....
I wonder what the actual retail cost, + tax , etc , was for the $1700 collection ??
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Had an IT guy at my previous employer who kept a nice Nissan GT-R (latest model at the time) as his Friday/weekend ride and garage queen. Daily driver was Chevy Trailblazer SS. He sat in the office and traded oil and currencies, swore off index funds, except those in his employer's 401K. He kept his house at 84F, with the thermostat locked in a transparent security cover. Last I know, his long-term GF left him.
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Had an IT guy at my previous employer who kept a nice Nissan GT-R (latest model at the time) as his Friday/weekend ride and garage queen. Daily driver was Chevy Trailblazer SS. He sat in the office and traded oil and currencies, swore off index funds, except those in his employer's 401K. He kept his house at 84F, with the thermostat locked in a transparent security cover. Last I know, his long-term GF left him.
Holy crap!
We live in the Mojave desert and have a swamp cooler as our only cooling option, and 84 is about what our house gets to when it's 115F+ outside.
Why would someone purposefully do that to themselves?
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84F in the winter might be just right for some folks. I'll bet in the summer he runs the a/c to some very cold temp.
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I never collected beanie babies or funko pop figurines (didnt think I was that old, but never even heard of these), but I do have a small collection on top of my bookshelf at work: Hot Wheels.
It started as a joke from a friend, we used to buy and exchange one every christmas. I now have 1 for every year I've worked since college. Total cost: about $14. They make me smile on bad days. I occasionally drive them around my desk and make engine noises.
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Had an IT guy at my previous employer who kept a nice Nissan GT-R (latest model at the time) as his Friday/weekend ride and garage queen. Daily driver was Chevy Trailblazer SS. He sat in the office and traded oil and currencies, swore off index funds, except those in his employer's 401K. He kept his house at 84F, with the thermostat locked in a transparent security cover. Last I know, his long-term GF left him.
I had a dorm-mate in college who liked to keep his thermostat at 80F. I know because due to a quirk of the dorm's design, the thermostat inside his room also controlled the heat in my room (everyone else was on a different thermostat). I had to keep my window or door open all the time, or else I would roast!
Turns out he liked it that way so he could spend all his time naked (which was TMI at the time).
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Two stories, not that dramatic but I'll share.
First is a Coworker in their mid thirties who has been working for about a decade for our organisation, five years at current place of work, so is on higher pay than myself. Coworker rents a place and complains about not being able to save for a deposit on a place in Sydney, which to be fair is HCOL and a 20% deposit on a modest 500-600k apartment will run 100k-150k. Their share of the rent is about $400/week, after-tax pay is about $1300/week. Goes on overseas holidays every year with partner and child, usually preceded by angst about being able to pay for things. Has gym membership and overheard talking about sound bar purchased for new TV using Afterpay. To their credit they only have one car and it is a modest second-hand one. Has refused to pay union membership on the basis of Sydney being too expensive and needing the money.
Doing the sums myself I reckon coworker could save $20K a year pretty easily after tax with basically their current lifestyle, allowing for $20k in rent and a further generous $20k in living expenses. In the five years they have spent at current place of work they could have saved a $100k deposit.
Second is dear sister, who has a 'bad with money' identity and doesn't seem to realise that her financial outcomes are linked to her spending habits. Bought a brand new Jeep Compass (25k plus a 'service pack' with the dealership) in 2015 using a car loan, as she was convinced by her partner (who went through 4 new cars in 2 years) that used cars are bad because of the unexpected repair costs. When DS bought the new car she was on a temporary contract of employment, which was soon after terminated. So she had to use hardship provisions to pause car loan repayments while collecting unemployment benefits.
Three years on and a few temp jobs later, she has finally secured a permanent position and her new car loan is down to about 5k. So what does she do 3 months into her first permanent job? Book a 2 month trip to Latin America and Europe with her new partner! She hasn't told her supervisor yet and I have no idea what will happen to her job. She also mentioned at Christmas buying another new car, mentioning the same logic about old used cars being money pits because of repairs.
She is in her late 20s and has lived at home rent free her whole life. I worry that in a decades time she will be in roughly the same position, without a capital base/savings and that this will fuel resentment towards myself, or helplessness in terms of her ability to manage her own affairs. I have been thinking of buying her a popular finance book and talking over it with her over a lunch or similar.
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Second is dear sister, who has a 'bad with money' identity and doesn't seem to realise that her financial outcomes are linked to her spending habits. Bought a brand new Jeep Compass (25k plus a 'service pack' with the dealership) in 2015 using a car loan, as she was convinced by her partner (who went through 4 new cars in 2 years) that used cars are bad because of the unexpected repair costs. When DS bought the new car she was on a temporary contract of employment, which was soon after terminated. So she had to use hardship provisions to pause car loan repayments while collecting unemployment benefits.
Three years on and a few temp jobs later, she has finally secured a permanent position and her new car loan is down to about 5k. So what does she do 3 months into her first permanent job? Book a 2 month trip to Latin America and Europe with her new partner! She hasn't told her supervisor yet and I have no idea what will happen to her job. She also mentioned at Christmas buying another new car, mentioning the same logic about old used cars being moneys pits because of repairs.
She is in her late 20s and has lived at home rent free her whole life. I worry that in a decades time she will be in roughly the same position, without a capital base/savings and that this will fuel resentment towards myself, or helplessness in terms of her ability to manage her own affairs. I have been thinking of buying her a popular finance book and talking over it with her over a lunch or similar.
This is my brother ( he’s in Canada so no real chance of making them a wining pair). He has been working for Walmart for ten years and living with mum and dad. Now the the guys is in a panick because mum wants to move 2hours away to be closer to her grand daughter. At 37 he is I’ll equiped to leave the nest. What to do?
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I remember in 1996 a person I met in Chicago was talking about their massive Beanie Baby collection. Another person was saying how collectible they were going to be and how smart they were to be trading them and that $200 on eBay for such-and-such was a great deal, etc. I didn't get it, still don't. I was right in my instincts.
My wife and her family had some sort of hookup back in the 90s on Beanie Babies, I dunno how. They ended up with a bunch of rare ones that they paid sticker or close to it for.
They ended up selling their whole collection and netted enough to take all 5 of them on a trip to Maui for a week (minus airfare, that was covered with dad's miles from work).
Pretty amazing.
This reminds me of in the baseball card craze in the early 90s (I believe it may have started late 80s). I was working with a guy who talked about his son who was collecting baseball cards as an "investment", how great that was and how this would fund his college education. I didn't have the heart to tell him that it was rarity that made them valuable (my husband is a collector but not of baseball cards) and if everyone was collecting cards as an investment, that didn't make them rare. I left the place shortly after and never knew what happened when the market went bust.
You must have worked with my ex-husband. How it turned out is we got divorced. I'm financially independent and he is not. Our son still has the cards. He's 30 and keeps them on a shelf to remind him not to be stupid with his money. He just recently bought a bunch of Vanguard funds. Happy ending
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84F in the winter might be just right for some folks. I'll bet in the summer he runs the a/c to some very cold temp.
84F was the summer indoor temperature with the A/C running. He didn't use heating for the winter, claimed that his mini-datacenter provided plenty of heat for the 2000 sqft house.
I keep our house at 77-78F. I'd prefer 75, wife wants 80. We don't have carpet and don't have high ceilings, so 78F is fine. Summers, we don't sleep with heavy blankets, just a cotton sheet, optional.
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Second is dear sister:
So what does she do 3 months into her first permanent job? Book a 2 month trip to Latin America and Europe with her new partner! She hasn't told her supervisor yet and I have no idea what will happen to her job.
How is this even possible? What is her end game and how does she expect her boss to react when told that she will be leaving her NEW position for two months in the near future? That is insane.
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84F in the winter might be just right for some folks. I'll bet in the summer he runs the a/c to some very cold temp.
84F was the summer indoor temperature with the A/C running. He didn't use heating for the winter, claimed that his mini-datacenter provided plenty of heat for the 2000 sqft house.
I keep our house at 77-78F. I'd prefer 75, wife wants 80. We don't have carpet and don't have high ceilings, so 78F is fine. Summers, we don't sleep with heavy blankets, just a cotton sheet, optional.
Well heck, that's almost mustachian! Except for when his pipes freeze in the winter, and his food spoils in the summer... Sounds like the definition of cheap vs. frugal to me.
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Simple strategy for discussion with new car sis. Total up six months of her payment. Point out that this would pay for anything that would likely go wrong with a car for the first 150K+ miles.
Of course then she'd prob spend the savings...
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Yet another car related one. A coworker recently hit a deer in his car (which really sucks, feel bad for the guy). His three-year old car was totaled, so he took a day to go buy a new car. Because of the amount of negative equity he "had to" get something with a big rebate on it, so he got a new Ram Truck (possibly on lease? this part is unclear). However, he already had one Ram truck (also three years old), and his wife didn't want to drive a truck, so now they "had to" buy a new car for her. She wanted an SUV, so the bought a Porsche SUV (it was used, so I guess that's something). Then he says that three years is the longest they've ever kept a car, the usual was 12-18 months. Oh, and they also have cars for their two college age kids, a Camaro and a Mustang.
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I remember in 1996 a person I met in Chicago was talking about their massive Beanie Baby collection. Another person was saying how collectible they were going to be and how smart they were to be trading them and that $200 on eBay for such-and-such was a great deal, etc. I didn't get it, still don't. I was right in my instincts.
My wife and her family had some sort of hookup back in the 90s on Beanie Babies, I dunno how. They ended up with a bunch of rare ones that they paid sticker or close to it for.
They ended up selling their whole collection and netted enough to take all 5 of them on a trip to Maui for a week (minus airfare, that was covered with dad's miles from work).
Pretty amazing.
This reminds me of in the baseball card craze in the early 90s (I believe it may have started late 80s). I was working with a guy who talked about his son who was collecting baseball cards as an "investment", how great that was and how this would fund his college education. I didn't have the heart to tell him that it was rarity that made them valuable (my husband is a collector but not of baseball cards) and if everyone was collecting cards as an investment, that didn't make them rare. I left the place shortly after and never knew what happened when the market went bust.
You must have worked with my ex-husband. How it turned out is we got divorced. I'm financially independent and he is not. Our son still has the cards. He's 30 and keeps them on a shelf to remind him not to be stupid with his money. He just recently bought a bunch of Vanguard funds. Happy ending
My brother and I collected cards from all sports like crazy from 84-92. We thought they would be valuable some day. They are not. At all.
About 5 years ago, my parents cleaned out their basement and asked us to take out ten full Rubbermaid storage totes of cards out of their house. I spent a weekend going through them and seeing what they were worth today. I found about twenty cards that were "worth" more than $10, kept those, and me and my brother dumped the rest in the fire pit and watched them burn. My Mom was slightly upset, because the cards were such a big part of my and my brother's childhood, but she did see that it would be insane to hold on to such a huge amount of something that is essentially just garbage at this point.
The cards of that era are worthless not just because so many were made and purchased, but also because everyone bought protective sleeves and cases for individual cards. So, not only does everyone have the cards, but they are all in mint condition!
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Second is dear sister:
So what does she do 3 months into her first permanent job? Book a 2 month trip to Latin America and Europe with her new partner! She hasn't told her supervisor yet and I have no idea what will happen to her job.
How is this even possible? What is her end game and how does she expect her boss to react when told that she will be leaving her NEW position for two months in the near future? That is insane.
I have no idea. I think the most likely scenario is that she actually booked the trip before she was made permanent, and did not tell anyone. She has got it into her head that she 'needs' to go to Brasil as our cousin is getting married. We are not particularly close with this cousin since we live on the other side of the world, and no one else from our family, including my mother, who is this cousin's Aunty, is going to go. I guess she feels like she is representing the family or something, I dunno.
I tried to talk with her at the end of last year, before she booked her trip, about priorities, told her that she didn't 'need' to do anything, and that she would have to decide what was more important to her - an overseas trip or a shot at building some savings and maybe moving out of home. That's when she kind of fobbed it off and said "I'm not the sort of person who's focused on money". As above I think she had probably already booked the trip.
DS' first partner, the one who rotated through 4 new cars in about two years, was on a decent six figure salary and got her used to a high-spend lifestyle. They would rent a house down or up the coast for a weekend away, for example. They rented a clifftop coastal home just south of Sydney ($$$) for the weekend for one of DS' birthdays. They would spend a lot on eating out.
This year has been less extravagant, but she went to a wedding south of Perth for a few days on the other side of the country for a few days, which would have cost 2k or so all in with flights, hire car and accommodation.
One of the reasons is she hasn't felt much desire to save is her place at my parent's house is very nice, she has an almost self-contained granny flat (Aussie word for a detached studio in a backyard). If that was rented it would easily fetch $250 a week. In contrast I lived in a small 2.5x3m bedroom in the main house and I hated the noise (my Dad runs the TV loud pretty much all the time he is home) and lack of personal quiet space.
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That's when she kind of fobbed it off and said "I'm not the sort of person who's focused on money".
When the inevitable day comes when she is unhappy because she's in debt and can't afford X, would it be cruel to remind her that she said this?
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That's when she kind of fobbed it off and said "I'm not the sort of person who's focused on money".
When the inevitable day comes when she is unhappy because she's in debt and can't afford X, would it be cruel to remind her that she said this?
Or the day when her parents get sick of her and tell her to move out?
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That's when she kind of fobbed it off and said "I'm not the sort of person who's focused on money".
When the inevitable day comes when she is unhappy because she's in debt and can't afford X, would it be cruel to remind her that she said this?
Or the day when her parents get sick of her and tell her to move out?
My parents like the company I think. They were happy for me to stay at home, indefinitely, and I think they would get a little lonely if my sister moved out.
The saying that comes to mind is the one that goes "you might not take an interest in politics, but politics will eventually take an interest in you" - that applies so well to personal finance. I really care for her, so I don't want to be the 'I told you so' person. I'm thinking of some non-preachy ways I can introduce her to moustachian ideas. I was thinking of taking her to lunch and sketching out a budget for her so she at least has a picture of how much is coming in versus how much is going out, then I can offer some suggestions or we can agree on a goal regarding a savings rate.
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I don’t even know what funko pop figurines are. I’m a little reluctant to even google it...
I did. You'll save yourself a few minutes of your time if you take a pass on the google search and just assume it's as dumb as you think it is.
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I don’t even know what funko pop figurines are. I’m a little reluctant to even google it...
I did. You'll save yourself a few minutes of your time if you take a pass on the google search and just assume it's as dumb as you think it is.
Thanks for taking one for the team. :)
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I don’t even know what funko pop figurines are. I’m a little reluctant to even google it...
I did. You'll save yourself a few minutes of your time if you take a pass on the google search and just assume it's as dumb as you think it is.
Thanks for taking one for the team. :)
Dangit...I had to look. Couldn't just take your word for it. But I should have.
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I don’t even know what funko pop figurines are. I’m a little reluctant to even google it...
I did. You'll save yourself a few minutes of your time if you take a pass on the google search and just assume it's as dumb as you think it is.
Thanks for taking one for the team. :)
Dangit...I had to look. Couldn't just take your word for it. But I should have.
Ditto. Cannot be unseen.
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Not just overheard but said to my face:
"I don't get the point of saving money if I'll only earn like 5 cents in interest."
(Coworker in high amount of student loan and consumer debt who doesn't contribute to 401k or IRA, commenting on why he doesn't save money/doesn't want to save, during a discussion on savings account with higher interest rates than what he's currently using.)
:/
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It has been suggested that the thread
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/ was getting big and unwieldy at 400+ pages.
In response this new thread has been created.
For newer people, topics in the previous thread exhaustively covered and thoroughly beaten to death in the old thread include:
Foam:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/msg717494/#msg717494
TL;DR - Foam is way off topic stuff.
The color of boxes:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/msg717747/#msg717747
TL;DR - Airplane voice/data Black boxes are Orange.
I'm open to editing this post to enumerate and describe other dead horses beaten past leather to the point of foamy-ness, so we don't have to figure out the color of boxes again.
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About 15 years ago when I lived in Virginia, I interviewed a young woman who would eventually take the job I was leaving to go back to get my Master's degree. Since she was now working with my old coworkers, I would run into her and her husband at get togethers. 3 years later, I got a job in the same place of employment that I had left but in a completely different department from where I worked previously. As luck would have it, I ended up working with my replacement's husband. Let's call him "Reprehensible A-hole Extraordinaire" or "RAE" for short. I hope I'm not giving away too much of the story already:).
Needless to say, after working with RAE for About 6 months, I developed strong negative feelings for him as a person. Just as an example of his character, he announced one day that he was going to go to lunch with his "surprise to all of us" now 10 year old son. Turns out, 10 years ago, his girlfriend got pregnant with his child. They moved into a house together and he told her that they would be together as a family. Then one day, when she was about 2 weeks away from the due date, he went out to get groceries and just never came back. Now remember, HE is telling us this story, so this is first person vice the rumor mill. Anyway, he admits he just left her with nothing, no $, no support, nada. About 2 years after the child was born, the exGF asked him to sign over all parental rights so the boy could be adopted by her new husband. RAE was more than happy to do so. Now, 10 years later the boy wanted to meet RAE and get to know him. During those 10 years, he met and married the above mentioned young lady who replaced me in my old job. (Let's call her Naive Wife #1, or NW1 for short). (Again, hope I'm not giving too much away....) It was my understanding that NW1 knew about the circumstances of RAE's first child and married him anyway...
RAE and I worked together for about a year during which time, RAE and NW1 show a penchant for lunches out, luxury sedans, dinners out with drinks, designer clothes, Harley Davidson motorcycle, and high end cigars. Given RAE and NW1's DINK status, I never questioned their spending. They bought a home about 45 minutes drive from work. All seemed well on the financial front. However, after my first year at my new job, I overheard a loud and very contentious meeting between RAE and our boss and less than 2 months later, RAE left abruptly and got a new job at another company.
Years pass and I lose touch with RAE (honestly, I made no effort to keep in contact with him) and NW1, but hear occasionally about them from my old coworkers, mainly that they now have 3 daughters. I relocate to Florida with my company, and I hear that RAE and NW1 are in the same city (having also been relocated to Florida since NW1 and I still work for the same company). But by this time, I have had no contact with them in years, so I really had no idea what was going on in their lives. 2 years after moving to Florida, an old coworker friend and his wife come to visit me. They call me to let me know they are leaving NW1's house and will be at mine in 10 minutes. I laughed, and said, "NW1 doesn't live 10 minutes away, they live about an hour away, so I will see you in an hour..."
12 minutes later, my friends ring my doorbell! I am so surprised that when I open the door, I blurt out, "Did RAE and NW1 move?" To which my friends replied in sudden hushed voices, "Don't you know what happened?" I tell them no....
Turns out, RAE, being RAE, decided to not just step in, but full body bathe in his own crapulence and ended up having an affair with his 22 year old step-niece, who is the daughter of his brother's wife from a prior relationship. So step-niece was not blood related, but RAE and NW1 had known her since she was 10 years old and had been a family fixture at Christmas, birthdays and other family gatherings.
So NW1, having discovered the affair, immediately filed for divorce and moved to a small townhouse about 10 minutes from my place with her and RAE's 3 daughters. I was totally gobsmacked not only at the sordidness of the entire affair, but the follow on details which I discover from our mutual friends are as follows:
1) RAE had left his employer in Virginia and took a new job with another employer in Florida. About 9 months before the affair was discovered, he was let go due to"ethical issues". I have no idea what those ethical issues were, but am fairly certain, given RAE's past, they were grounded. So, at the time of the divorce, RAE had been unemployed for several months...
2) RAE and NW1 had sold their home in Virginia (for quite a bit of profit), but were renting in Florida. I have no idea what happened to the profit from the sale of the VA home.
3) After filing for divorce, NW1 moved to another rental closer to work with the 3 daughters, which necessitated them moving from the schools and friends they had been in previously, because they could no longer afford to rent the home they lived in before. So now they had to start over in a new school, no friends, and no dad (and the aftermath of whatever fallout on their dad's side of the family).
4) Worst of all, due to RAE's unemployment, and (it turns out very very very poor financial decisions on both RAE and NW1's part for their entire marriage during which time RAE made over $100k per year and NW1 made just under $100k per year for well over 10 years) they had no assets to split. So poor NW1 got nothing from RAE, not even child support for their 3 young daughters, and I would guess, she probably got slapped with half of the debt they probably incurred with their lifestyle.
I understand that NW1 remarried less than a year later, and RAE moved up north to try to start his own consulting company.
SMH...
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Wow. Just, wow.
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Indeed, wow. Some jaw-dropping stories on here. PTF
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In 20 years, I've worked in a few industries, but the things I've seen tend to transcend fields. I had a young coworker, just starting out in a financial analysis job who felt he had to "keep up" (whatever that means)... So on his starting salary on the first rung of the career ladder, rented a one bedroom apartment in the suburbs of DC and bought a new Acura. He spent the first year stealing people's lunches from the fridge. It got to the point, where his boss, who felt bad for him, started bringing extra food into the office to keep him from pilfering other coworkers food.
About 2 years into the job, (he apparently was very good at what he did), he felt a calling to preach the word of God in a university town in TN. He told everyone at work who was very supportive of his dream. (I believe no one really knew it was him responsible for the food that disappeared from the communal fridge). He also met a young woman who also was inspired to join him (my understanding was that she was a certified nursing assistant). Anyway, after he met her, his plans to leave and preach were greatly accelerated. So within a few months, with no $$ saved and no theological seminary or divinity school background, he quit his job and moved to TN with his now wife and they both got jobs waiting tables at Ruby Tuesday.
He launched a blog that captured his "sermons" while also doing a great job at documenting their financial implosion which included requesting $$$ from former colleagues to finance the opening of a coffee shop that would be a welcoming and warm place for young Christians from the local university to hang out (with no business plan or anything other than reassurances that they had found a GREAT location for said coffee shop). Some of my coworkers were very generous and sent him $$, all of which went into their living expenses, which (not surprisingly) exceeded their incomes. The coffee shop idea never got off the ground...
Months pass, and their financial situation gets more and more desperate, and finally, he decides that what's really missing is theological seminary, so he quits his job at Ruby Tuesday and takes out student loans for them to live on while taking seminary classes online. More months pass and the financial situation continues to spiral, but now they've decided to add 2 (or 3?) dogs to the situation, and then of course, the ultimate of bright ideas: "Let's have a baby!" Once pregnant, the wife decides she can no longer work, and their financial situation goes into free fall.
Eventually, they are evicted, (at some point, the Acura is either sold or repossessed) and move to another home, then another - each one an eviction situation, until finally, unable to rent any place to live in that TN town, they move in with the wife's parents. Who apparently, according to the wife's tandem eyebrow raising blog, are horrible beyond words, despite taking in their now indigent daughter and son-in-law, 2-3 dogs and soon to be grand baby. Husband is now supplementing the student loan $ by selling AFLAC insurance on the side. After months of tolerating the wife's parents' "abusive behavior" (which included a roof over their heads, food, and food and care of their dogs), they save up enough to move out and returned to the DC area where they somehow rent a 3 bedroom 2.5 bath townhouse... But justify the home because, you know... The baby is coming... And the now 3 dogs...
Shortly after moving in to their new home, the baby is born, and the wife continues to insist that there is no way she can possibly work. The husband finally realizes that he cannot sustain their lifestyle and breaks down, gives up his dream of preaching, and contacts all his old coworker friends in order to try to get a job in financial analysis again. A lot of the coworkers who had given him $ for the coffee shop, understandably did not respond. His old boss, however, replies, GIVES him several hundred $$s but insists that he get a real job, stop taking out student loans, and face the reality that he's basically an unemployed married father with no real income living a lifestyle that DINKs in the DC suburbs cannot afford.
The husband gets a job at Home Depot, buys a beater with the $$ his old boss gifted him, and after 9 months of sending out his resume, and with a good recommendation from his old boss, lands a job in Charlottesville in financial analysis making less than what he did when he started on this entire journey.
I heard from his old boss that they rented a large farmhouse (basically for the 3 dogs) and now 3 kids that's about 45 minutes from his work. Wife continues to refuse to go back to work.
My greatest hope, having watched this entire saga unfold over the course of years, is that the hard knocks, period of almost homelessness, and now 3 small kids, would have hit this couple over the head like a large sock full of marbles. But no.... His old boss informed me that last she heard from him, he was trying to take advantage of some program that would subsidize a car (I have never heard of such a program before, but apparently it's a thing where he lives?) for work.
What kind of car, you ask? Another Acura...
O_O
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Oh boy this thread throws up some horrifying epics from time to time
Thanks @Piglet for sharing.
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In 20 years, I've worked in a few industries, but the things I've seen tend to transcend fields. I had a young coworker, just starting out in a financial analysis job who felt he had to "keep up" (whatever that means)... So on his starting salary on the first rung of the career ladder, rented a one bedroom apartment in the suburbs of DC and bought a new Acura. He spent the first year stealing people's lunches from the fridge. It got to the point, where his boss, who felt bad for him, started bringing extra food into the office to keep him from pilfering other coworkers food.
About 2 years into the job, (he apparently was very good at what he did), he felt a calling to preach the word of God in a university town in TN. He told everyone at work who was very supportive of his dream. (I believe no one really knew it was him responsible for the food that disappeared from the communal fridge). He also met a young woman who also was inspired to join him (my understanding was that she was a certified nursing assistant). Anyway, after he met her, his plans to leave and preach were greatly accelerated. So within a few months, with no $$ saved and no theological seminary or divinity school background, he quit his job and moved to TN with his now wife and they both got jobs waiting tables at Ruby Tuesday.
He launched a blog that captured his "sermons" while also doing a great job at documenting their financial implosion which included requesting $$$ from former colleagues to finance the opening of a coffee shop that would be a welcoming and warm place for young Christians from the local university to hang out (with no business plan or anything other than reassurances that they had found a GREAT location for said coffee shop). Some of my coworkers were very generous and sent him $$, all of which went into their living expenses, which (not surprisingly) exceeded their incomes. The coffee shop idea never got off the ground...
Months pass, and their financial situation gets more and more desperate, and finally, he decides that what's really missing is theological seminary, so he quits his job at Ruby Tuesday and takes out student loans for them to live on while taking seminary classes online. More months pass and the financial situation continues to spiral, but now they've decided to add 2 (or 3?) dogs to the situation, and then of course, the ultimate of bright ideas: "Let's have a baby!" Once pregnant, the wife decides she can no longer work, and their financial situation goes into free fall.
Eventually, they are evicted, (at some point, the Acura is either sold or repossessed) and move to another home, then another - each one an eviction situation, until finally, unable to rent any place to live in that TN town, they move in with the wife's parents. Who apparently, according to the wife's tandem eyebrow raising blog, are horrible beyond words, despite taking in their now indigent daughter and son-in-law, 2-3 dogs and soon to be grand baby. Husband is now supplementing the student loan $ by selling AFLAC insurance on the side. After months of tolerating the wife's parents' "abusive behavior" (which included a roof over their heads, food, and food and care of their dogs), they save up enough to move out and returned to the DC area where they somehow rent a 3 bedroom 2.5 bath townhouse... But justify the home because, you know... The baby is coming... And the now 3 dogs...
Shortly after moving in to their new home, the baby is born, and the wife continues to insist that there is no way she can possibly work. The husband finally realizes that he cannot sustain their lifestyle and breaks down, gives up his dream of preaching, and contacts all his old coworker friends in order to try to get a job in financial analysis again. A lot of the coworkers who had given him $ for the coffee shop, understandably did not respond. His old boss, however, replies, GIVES him several hundred $$s but insists that he get a real job, stop taking out student loans, and face the reality that he's basically an unemployed married father with no real income living a lifestyle that DINKs in the DC suburbs cannot afford.
The husband gets a job at Home Depot, buys a beater with the $$ his old boss gifted him, and after 9 months of sending out his resume, and with a good recommendation from his old boss, lands a job in Charlottesville in financial analysis making less than what he did when he started on this entire journey.
I heard from his old boss that they rented a large farmhouse (basically for the 3 dogs) and now 3 kids that's about 45 minutes from his work. Wife continues to refuse to go back to work.
My greatest hope, having watched this entire saga unfold over the course of years, is that the hard knocks, period of almost homelessness, and now 3 small kids, would have hit this couple over the head like a large sock full of marbles. But no.... His old boss informed me that last she heard from him, he was trying to take advantage of some program that would subsidize a car (I have never heard of such a program before, but apparently it's a thing where he lives?) for work.
What kind of car, you ask? Another Acura...
O_O
You should forward his blog to whoever hired the guy to be a FINANCIAL ANALYST!!!
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Oh boy this thread throws up some horrifying epics from time to time
Thanks @Piglet for sharing.
Thanks for letting me vent... After 20 years of biting my tongue, it's cathartic to let it out....
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In 20 years, I've worked in a few industries, but the things I've seen tend to transcend fields. I had a young coworker, just starting out in a financial analysis job who felt he had to "keep up" (whatever that means)... So on his starting salary on the first rung of the career ladder, rented a one bedroom apartment in the suburbs of DC and bought a new Acura. He spent the first year stealing people's lunches from the fridge. It got to the point, where his boss, who felt bad for him, started bringing extra food into the office to keep him from pilfering other coworkers food.
About 2 years into the job, (he apparently was very good at what he did), he felt a calling to preach the word of God in a university town in TN. He told everyone at work who was very supportive of his dream. (I believe no one really knew it was him responsible for the food that disappeared from the communal fridge). He also met a young woman who also was inspired to join him (my understanding was that she was a certified nursing assistant). Anyway, after he met her, his plans to leave and preach were greatly accelerated. So within a few months, with no $$ saved and no theological seminary or divinity school background, he quit his job and moved to TN with his now wife and they both got jobs waiting tables at Ruby Tuesday.
He launched a blog that captured his "sermons" while also doing a great job at documenting their financial implosion which included requesting $$$ from former colleagues to finance the opening of a coffee shop that would be a welcoming and warm place for young Christians from the local university to hang out (with no business plan or anything other than reassurances that they had found a GREAT location for said coffee shop). Some of my coworkers were very generous and sent him $$, all of which went into their living expenses, which (not surprisingly) exceeded their incomes. The coffee shop idea never got off the ground...
Months pass, and their financial situation gets more and more desperate, and finally, he decides that what's really missing is theological seminary, so he quits his job at Ruby Tuesday and takes out student loans for them to live on while taking seminary classes online. More months pass and the financial situation continues to spiral, but now they've decided to add 2 (or 3?) dogs to the situation, and then of course, the ultimate of bright ideas: "Let's have a baby!" Once pregnant, the wife decides she can no longer work, and their financial situation goes into free fall.
Eventually, they are evicted, (at some point, the Acura is either sold or repossessed) and move to another home, then another - each one an eviction situation, until finally, unable to rent any place to live in that TN town, they move in with the wife's parents. Who apparently, according to the wife's tandem eyebrow raising blog, are horrible beyond words, despite taking in their now indigent daughter and son-in-law, 2-3 dogs and soon to be grand baby. Husband is now supplementing the student loan $ by selling AFLAC insurance on the side. After months of tolerating the wife's parents' "abusive behavior" (which included a roof over their heads, food, and food and care of their dogs), they save up enough to move out and returned to the DC area where they somehow rent a 3 bedroom 2.5 bath townhouse... But justify the home because, you know... The baby is coming... And the now 3 dogs...
Shortly after moving in to their new home, the baby is born, and the wife continues to insist that there is no way she can possibly work. The husband finally realizes that he cannot sustain their lifestyle and breaks down, gives up his dream of preaching, and contacts all his old coworker friends in order to try to get a job in financial analysis again. A lot of the coworkers who had given him $ for the coffee shop, understandably did not respond. His old boss, however, replies, GIVES him several hundred $$s but insists that he get a real job, stop taking out student loans, and face the reality that he's basically an unemployed married father with no real income living a lifestyle that DINKs in the DC suburbs cannot afford.
The husband gets a job at Home Depot, buys a beater with the $$ his old boss gifted him, and after 9 months of sending out his resume, and with a good recommendation from his old boss, lands a job in Charlottesville in financial analysis making less than what he did when he started on this entire journey.
I heard from his old boss that they rented a large farmhouse (basically for the 3 dogs) and now 3 kids that's about 45 minutes from his work. Wife continues to refuse to go back to work.
My greatest hope, having watched this entire saga unfold over the course of years, is that the hard knocks, period of almost homelessness, and now 3 small kids, would have hit this couple over the head like a large sock full of marbles. But no.... His old boss informed me that last she heard from him, he was trying to take advantage of some program that would subsidize a car (I have never heard of such a program before, but apparently it's a thing where he lives?) for work.
What kind of car, you ask? Another Acura...
O_O
You should forward his blog to whoever hired the guy to be a FINANCIAL ANALYST!!!
Right? But both he and the wife took down their blogs. Apparently in the first months back in DC he would honestly tell potential employers about his time in TN, which I think led to some of them finding his blog... Both blogs disappeared a few months afterwards...
Brace yourself... He specialized in risk mitigation.... O_o
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*** bat-shit-crazy story***
You should forward his blog to whoever hired the guy to be a FINANCIAL ANALYST!!!
I literally LOL'd at this comment because as all of the other details had me gripped in terror I overlooked the obvious. Good at his job, you say? Huh...
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*** bat-shit-crazy story***
You should forward his blog to whoever hired the guy to be a FINANCIAL ANALYST!!!
I literally LOL'd at this comment because as all of the other details had me gripped in terror I overlooked the obvious. Good at his job, you say? Huh...
Sometimes I wonder if folks like this aren't a little like some of the patient cases described in the book Descartes' Error (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descartes%27_Error): fully capable of reasoning (in the abstract) about what someone else should do in a given situation, yet utterly incapable of applying that reasoning to their own lives.
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*** bat-shit-crazy story***
You should forward his blog to whoever hired the guy to be a FINANCIAL ANALYST!!!
I literally LOL'd at this comment because as all of the other details had me gripped in terror I overlooked the obvious. Good at his job, you say? Huh...
Sometimes I wonder if folks like this aren't a little like some of the patient cases described in the book Descartes' Error (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descartes%27_Error): fully capable of reasoning (in the abstract) about what someone else should do in a given situation, yet utterly incapable of applying that reasoning to their own lives.
It is easier to change the world into a better place, than to change yourself into a better person.
Habits, habits, habits.
One of the bad habits I have is getting angry about my many other bad habits, like reading the MMM forums instead of doing something productive.
In this sense, I am off ;)
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Coworker has complained on a couple of occasions recently about how much money he is dropping on Christmas. His family is coming to visit and he has to buy gifts for aunts, uncles, their kids, etc., and take them all out to dinner. While purchasing all these gifts he bought a 75" flat screen to treat himself and he found a "great deal" on a pool table. Also, he just got back from Disneyland a couple weeks ago. I have no clue how much money he makes but that is an alarming spending rate.
I had to post an update on this same coworker. Just heard over the cubicle wall...
Coworker is complaining about his very high heating bill (mostly because he bought too much house - which also has a bad commute). My other coworker, with whom he is conversing, recommended that he turn the thermostat down when nobody is home. He said, no, "it's too much of a pain in the butt." Oh, and he keeps his house at 75 degrees!
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Coworker has complained on a couple of occasions recently about how much money he is dropping on Christmas. His family is coming to visit and he has to buy gifts for aunts, uncles, their kids, etc., and take them all out to dinner. While purchasing all these gifts he bought a 75" flat screen to treat himself and he found a "great deal" on a pool table. Also, he just got back from Disneyland a couple weeks ago. I have no clue how much money he makes but that is an alarming spending rate.
I had to post an update on this same coworker. Just heard over the cubicle wall...
Coworker is complaining about his very high heating bill (mostly because he bought too much house - which also has a bad commute). My other coworker, with whom he is conversing, recommended that he turn the thermostat down when nobody is home. He said, no, "it's too much of a pain in the butt." Oh, and he keeps his house at 75 degrees!
I enjoy these posts but at the same time it causes pain in an area of my brain that i would be curious as to what it specifically does. In the name of science i should get a scan.
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I enjoy these posts but at the same time it causes pain in an area of my brain that i would be curious as to what it specifically does. In the name of science i should get a scan.
They're like the digital equivalent of hot peppers. It burns . . . it burns . . . may I have another? :)
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Too much trouble? What other little life chores does this guy avoid? Does he brush his teeth or are they too much trouble too? Does he ties his shoes? Change the oil in his car?
Wonder if he knows that even basic digital thermostats will do this automatically?
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Speaking of collectibles, I had three; comic books, cards, and coins.
The coins were probably my first foray as I inherited my dad's coin collection when he died (I was 2 at the time). The comics and various cards (baseball, soccer, comics, etc) were late 80's and early 90's where I wasted an inordinate amount of my childhood savings. Worse is I almost never read them, I just collected.
Turns out they all ended up being worthless. By the 80's, I think everyone had caught onto the whole, "If I buy this and keep it in mint condition, it'll be worth a fortune!"
The coins were probably the biggest slap in the face, as I realized that the only ones actually worth anything are things like mis-prints. And by the time I was even born, everyone knew about them. Worse, my wife worked at a bank and they allowed her to "buy" (trade in) quarters that she wanted. She did this for a few months grabbing the pre-1962 quarters. I think a year or two ago I went through the entire coin collection and her quarters. The silver value of her quarters made them actually valuable; about $800. The rest of the coin collection? I might be able to get $50 if I could unload them all.
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I enjoy these posts but at the same time it causes pain in an area of my brain that i would be curious as to what it specifically does. In the name of science i should get a scan.
They're like the digital equivalent of hot peppers. It burns . . . it burns . . . may I have another? :)
Hmmmm..apt metaphor =).
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Anyone remember how you could get the MLB Topps sets at Costco? Something like "Limit 4" boxes or similar?
We had Ken Griffey Jr.'s rookie card in one of the those sets. Never opened the box, still had the shrink wrap sleeve over box too. Thought it would be worth a lot one day.
I see it on eBay today for $4.
At least the XH took all that crap with him when he poofed.
With all the discussion about Rivera being a unanimous HOF candidate, I have to say I would have been fine with Griffey getting that honor. I have childhood memories of the cool kids having his Upper Deck Rookie card (I never owned it). I have teenage memories of him becoming one of the elite homerun hitters in the game. And I got to see him play during his final years in Cincinnati; he was old, but still managed a triple in one of those games. $4 seems like a bargain for those memories.
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I overheard my office mate say recently "yeah we'll be paying off that truck for a while, but we'll be building equity in it so it's okay!"
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I overheard my office mate say recently "yeah we'll be paying off that truck for a while, but we'll be building equity in it so it's okay!"
Yikes! There's nothing like paying interest to build equity on something that loses value every year!
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I overheard my office mate say recently "yeah we'll be paying off that truck for a while, but we'll be building equity in it so it's okay!"
Yikes! There's nothing like paying interest to build equity on something that loses value every year!
Really, you build your % of equity faster that way!
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I overheard my office mate say recently "yeah we'll be paying off that truck for a while, but we'll be building equity in it so it's okay!"
Yikes! There's nothing like paying interest to build equity on something that loses value every year!
Really, you build your % of equity faster that way!
I like the positivity! ;)
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I enjoy these posts but at the same time it causes pain in an area of my brain that i would be curious as to what it specifically does. In the name of science i should get a scan.
They're like the digital equivalent of hot peppers. It burns . . . it burns . . . may I have another? :)
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I come across so many older people who make a lot more than me and have less savings than me at work. They have to have that 400K-500K home and a car that is less than 2 years old. Then I come across a very young guy making 40K+ a year who is already saving pretty well, and is very welcoming to the idea of saving his wealth for an early retirement. Wow, if only I had that mindset when I was in my early 20s.
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I'm taking several unopened boxes of baseball cards from the 90s to donate today. They've hung around here long enough and I'm sure after checking eBay they are worth maybe $10 each. Not really worth the effort to auction. Hopefully some little kid will have a ball with 'em.
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I enjoy these posts but at the same time it causes pain in an area of my brain that i would be curious as to what it specifically does. In the name of science i should get a scan.
They're like the digital equivalent of hot peppers. It burns . . . it burns . . . may I have another? :)
That’s it! My colleague struck again but fully admitted to the mistake. She had her car brought in to the dealership and had them put on windshield wipers. Said she tried. Said her dad tried. Paid 75$. Ok now today had the, replace the, and provide the part.... F! An sais I’m out of debt be cause I’m married. I’m a receptionist. She’s an accredited accountant. She doesn’t need a man! Ok nor do I really but the income helps and he’s kinda cute ( etc.)
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I had a coworker get a bit snarky with me after hearing that I went to Hamilton this weekend. "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money" We were talking about groceries last week and she admitted she spends $800 a month for her and her husband; that's $500 more than we spend! Really wanted to point out that she is spending $6K a year more than us on groceries and could go to any show she could possibly want for that much money. Our season tickets, which these were part of, cost us just $600 and include 7 shows.
I've had a similar reaction from a coworker because I'm on a few weeks unpaid leave right now. She made a snooty comment about it being nice for some to afford to take a few weeks off. No thought to the fact that I worked through xmas and this is effectively my break now, and even less thought to that fact that she proudly tells everyone she gives herself $200 a week 'fun money'. The woman is delusional.
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I had a coworker get a bit snarky with me after hearing that I went to Hamilton this weekend. "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money" We were talking about groceries last week and she admitted she spends $800 a month for her and her husband; that's $500 more than we spend! Really wanted to point out that she is spending $6K a year more than us on groceries and could go to any show she could possibly want for that much money. Our season tickets, which these were part of, cost us just $600 and include 7 shows.
I've had a similar reaction from a coworker because I'm on a few weeks unpaid leave right now. She made a snooty comment about it being nice for some to afford to take a few weeks off. No thought to the fact that I worked through xmas and this is effectively my break now, and even less thought to that fact that she proudly tells everyone she gives herself $200 a week 'fun money'. The woman is delusional.
I have the same thing when I go on holidays (admittedly not very mustachian holidays sometimes) and people at my work question how I can afford it, when I point out my car is 11 years old, I live in a small house, dont have a boat, dont gamble ect but they dont seem to see the correlation
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I had a coworker get a bit snarky with me after hearing that I went to Hamilton this weekend. "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money" We were talking about groceries last week and she admitted she spends $800 a month for her and her husband; that's $500 more than we spend! Really wanted to point out that she is spending $6K a year more than us on groceries and could go to any show she could possibly want for that much money. Our season tickets, which these were part of, cost us just $600 and include 7 shows.
I've had a similar reaction from a coworker because I'm on a few weeks unpaid leave right now. She made a snooty comment about it being nice for some to afford to take a few weeks off. No thought to the fact that I worked through xmas and this is effectively my break now, and even less thought to that fact that she proudly tells everyone she gives herself $200 a week 'fun money'. The woman is delusional.
I have the same thing when I go on holidays (admittedly not very mustachian holidays sometimes) and people at my work question how I can afford it, when I point out my car is 11 years old, I live in a small house, dont have a boat, dont gamble ect but they dont seem to see the correlation causation
Fixed that for you :-)
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I had a coworker get a bit snarky with me after hearing that I went to Hamilton this weekend. "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money" We were talking about groceries last week and she admitted she spends $800 a month for her and her husband; that's $500 more than we spend! Really wanted to point out that she is spending $6K a year more than us on groceries and could go to any show she could possibly want for that much money. Our season tickets, which these were part of, cost us just $600 and include 7 shows.
I've had a similar reaction from a coworker because I'm on a few weeks unpaid leave right now. She made a snooty comment about it being nice for some to afford to take a few weeks off. No thought to the fact that I worked through xmas and this is effectively my break now, and even less thought to that fact that she proudly tells everyone she gives herself $200 a week 'fun money'. The woman is delusional.
I have the same thing when I go on holidays (admittedly not very mustachian holidays sometimes) and people at my work question how I can afford it, when I point out my car is 11 years old, I live in a small house, dont have a boat, dont gamble ect but they dont seem to see the correlation causation
Fixed that for you :-)
I think it was early in my working career (maybe in year 2000) that I noticed that we saved a lot more than other people of our age. I once mentioned to a colleague that we saved about 20K a year. He was completely baffled and looked like he saw water burning. I thought a lot about what it was that we did different, as I thought his income should be pretty similar to mine. Was it just the fact that we brewed beer at home? But it was probably our whole lifestyle in total.
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Work colleague was talking to another this morning
"How was your trip?"
"It was great, we took the kids skiing in Japan [for 5 days]"
"That's cool, I've got a couple of mates who like to go there for weekends, really good time of year to go, lots of snow"
"No kidding, I've got a mate who owns a cabin up there"
.... and on it went.
Bear in mind this is Sydney... Japan isn't exactly down the road.
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I enjoy these posts but at the same time it causes pain in an area of my brain that i would be curious as to what it specifically does. In the name of science i should get a scan.
They're like the digital equivalent of hot peppers. It burns . . . it burns . . . may I have another? :)
Yes that's what it is. I used to always think of it as rubber necking road accidents. You really shouldn't look, and screw up the traffic for everyone else but you just can't help it.
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I had a coworker get a bit snarky with me after hearing that I went to Hamilton this weekend. "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money" We were talking about groceries last week and she admitted she spends $800 a month for her and her husband; that's $500 more than we spend! Really wanted to point out that she is spending $6K a year more than us on groceries and could go to any show she could possibly want for that much money. Our season tickets, which these were part of, cost us just $600 and include 7 shows.
I've had a similar reaction from a coworker because I'm on a few weeks unpaid leave right now. She made a snooty comment about it being nice for some to afford to take a few weeks off. No thought to the fact that I worked through xmas and this is effectively my break now, and even less thought to that fact that she proudly tells everyone she gives herself $200 a week 'fun money'. The woman is delusional.
I have the same thing when I go on holidays (admittedly not very mustachian holidays sometimes) and people at my work question how I can afford it, when I point out my car is 11 years old, I live in a small house, dont have a boat, dont gamble ect but they dont seem to see the correlation causation
Fixed that for you :-)
I think it was early in my working career (maybe in year 2000) that I noticed that we saved a lot more than other people of our age. I once mentioned to a colleague that we saved about 20K a year. He was completely baffled and looked like he saw water burning. I thought a lot about what it was that we did different, as I thought his income should be pretty similar to mine. Was it just the fact that we brewed beer at home? But it was probably our whole lifestyle in total.
Same here. I don't mention how much I save anymore. At least two of the guys I work with are only saving the 5% in our TSP to get the agency match. One is my age and has a wife in graduate school and the other is in his late 40s and trying to get the last kiddo out of undergraduate. I think that I spent so much time in college (without the "benefit" of loans) that I've never really outgrown that broke-college-kid mentality.
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I had a coworker get a bit snarky with me after hearing that I went to Hamilton this weekend. "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money" We were talking about groceries last week and she admitted she spends $800 a month for her and her husband; that's $500 more than we spend! Really wanted to point out that she is spending $6K a year more than us on groceries and could go to any show she could possibly want for that much money. Our season tickets, which these were part of, cost us just $600 and include 7 shows.
I've had a similar reaction from a coworker because I'm on a few weeks unpaid leave right now. She made a snooty comment about it being nice for some to afford to take a few weeks off. No thought to the fact that I worked through xmas and this is effectively my break now, and even less thought to that fact that she proudly tells everyone she gives herself $200 a week 'fun money'. The woman is delusional.
I have the same thing when I go on holidays (admittedly not very mustachian holidays sometimes) and people at my work question how I can afford it, when I point out my car is 11 years old, I live in a small house, dont have a boat, dont gamble ect but they dont seem to see the correlation causation
Fixed that for you :-)
I think it was early in my working career (maybe in year 2000) that I noticed that we saved a lot more than other people of our age. I once mentioned to a colleague that we saved about 20K a year. He was completely baffled and looked like he saw water burning. I thought a lot about what it was that we did different, as I thought his income should be pretty similar to mine. Was it just the fact that we brewed beer at home? But it was probably our whole lifestyle in total.
Same here. I don't mention how much I save anymore. At least two of the guys I work with are only saving the 5% in our TSP to get the agency match. One is my age and has a wife in graduate school and the other is in his late 40s and trying to get the last kiddo out of undergraduate. I think that I spent so much time in college (without the "benefit" of loans) that I've never really outgrown that broke-college-kid mentality.
At the beginning of 2017 I mentioned out loud to a frugal colleague that we had managed to save 60% of our income in 2016. Despite being a frugal person, she was still flabbergasted. But she visits her family in law in the US every year, with husband and children. That isn't cheap. So I know where some of her family's money is going.
At the beginning of 2018 I did not mention our new savings rate of 75% in 2017. It is so far from other people's reality, even from frugal people, that there is not really a point in talking about it.
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I had a coworker get a bit snarky with me after hearing that I went to Hamilton this weekend. "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money" We were talking about groceries last week and she admitted she spends $800 a month for her and her husband; that's $500 more than we spend! Really wanted to point out that she is spending $6K a year more than us on groceries and could go to any show she could possibly want for that much money. Our season tickets, which these were part of, cost us just $600 and include 7 shows.
I've had a similar reaction from a coworker because I'm on a few weeks unpaid leave right now. She made a snooty comment about it being nice for some to afford to take a few weeks off. No thought to the fact that I worked through xmas and this is effectively my break now, and even less thought to that fact that she proudly tells everyone she gives herself $200 a week 'fun money'. The woman is delusional.
I have the same thing when I go on holidays (admittedly not very mustachian holidays sometimes) and people at my work question how I can afford it, when I point out my car is 11 years old, I live in a small house, dont have a boat, dont gamble ect but they dont seem to see the correlation causation
Fixed that for you :-)
I think it was early in my working career (maybe in year 2000) that I noticed that we saved a lot more than other people of our age. I once mentioned to a colleague that we saved about 20K a year. He was completely baffled and looked like he saw water burning. I thought a lot about what it was that we did different, as I thought his income should be pretty similar to mine. Was it just the fact that we brewed beer at home? But it was probably our whole lifestyle in total.
Same here. I don't mention how much I save anymore. At least two of the guys I work with are only saving the 5% in our TSP to get the agency match. One is my age and has a wife in graduate school and the other is in his late 40s and trying to get the last kiddo out of undergraduate. I think that I spent so much time in college (without the "benefit" of loans) that I've never really outgrown that broke-college-kid mentality.
At the beginning of 2017 I mentioned out loud to a frugal colleague that we had managed to save 60% of our income in 2016. Despite being a frugal person, she was still flabbergasted. But she visits her family in law in the US every year, with husband and children. That isn't cheap. So I know where some of her family's money is going.
At the beginning of 2018 I did not mention our new savings rate of 75% in 2017. It is so far from other people's reality, even from frugal people, that there is not really a point in talking about it.
I'm damn impressed by 75%. I'm only at about 28% until we recover from the trainwreck that was 2018. But even that's up from about 19%.
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Listened to two coworkers discuss their cars.
CW#1 bought something newish (used - yay!) and loves it top to bottom. I drove it to a lunch with everyone piled in. Made a little compliment about how the four cylinder had alot of power. A frown came over their face. They were certain they had purchased a V6. Its definitely an I4. I didn't argue, I quit that hot potato topic. A previous vehicle they bought had AWD - except it didn't. A quick peek underneath proved that. I'm hoping - and I did not ask - that they did not pay extra for those features except I know they did b/c bigger engines and AWD come with a slight premium in most vehicles. In the future I'll just smile and say "I really like it" and leave it at that.
CW#2 Bought a used car (yay!) which the seller promised was all squared away. Except it wasn't. Off to mechanic #1 who did something. CW#2 wrote the check but doesn't know what. It didn't fix the problem. Then it went to mechanic #2 who did something else that CW#2 wrote a check for and doesn't understand - and it remains to be seen whether that fixed it or not.
Over the years I've been amazed at the "blank check" people give dealers and mechanics b/c the average person doesn't know and doesn't want to know anything about their car.
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I think that I spent so much time in college (without the "benefit" of loans) that I've never really outgrown that broke-college-kid mentality.
This.
A few months ago my husband said, "You know, I'm a tenured full professor. Maybe we should get a couch that doesn't look like a grad student's."
We got one from Craigslist for $150.
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I think that I spent so much time in college (without the "benefit" of loans) that I've never really outgrown that broke-college-kid mentality.
This.
A few months ago my husband said, "You know, I'm a tenured full professor. Maybe we should get a couch that doesn't look like a grad student's."
We got one from Craigslist for $150.
Up until a year ago, I was still using the sofa and loveseat that my grandparents bought in about 1993. They were ugly, but actually a lot more comfy than what I have now.
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My daughter still teases me about spending/living like a university student. I love being retired/eccentric.
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TomTX beat me to it, still wish it was more. I know some gov workers can do a lot more, never really looked into why as I never expect to be one.
So, while most employer plans (401k, 403b, SIMPLE IRA, etc) "count" against the same per-person $19k limit, the 457 plan has its own separate $19k limit. Only government entities and nonprofits can offer the 457. Some of them will offer both types of plan, effectively allowing $38k in contributions.
The flip side is that salaries tend to be notably lower than private sector, so it's more difficult to take advantage of the extra space.
Posting to follow, and also to hopethat I may be able to put away 38K this year if I change jobs! I'll max my 401K in my seventh paycheck (early April) then can hopefully get to another 19K before year end in my much lower-salary job...
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If you change jobs mid-year and if they are both normal 401k plans, the total yearly contribution is aggregated across both plans.
That means the aggregate contribution limit is still only $19k (not $38k) and you cannot contribute $19k to each plan.
If you max out $19k in the first job, it would be an overcontribution if you also contribute anything to the second job.
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This thread is a panacea for when I feel bad about myself and my life choices.
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the 457 401 thing : i wonder if anyone switches jobs like they do credit cards in order to do this technique
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I had a coworker get a bit snarky with me after hearing that I went to Hamilton this weekend. "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money" We were talking about groceries last week and she admitted she spends $800 a month for her and her husband; that's $500 more than we spend! Really wanted to point out that she is spending $6K a year more than us on groceries and could go to any show she could possibly want for that much money. Our season tickets, which these were part of, cost us just $600 and include 7 shows.
I feel like you could easily respond to that without being a jerk -- talk about the cost of the program and then talk about other things you've passed over. I think it sounds like a great deal and not something to save for if you make it a point to do so.
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I'm damn impressed by 75%. I'm only at about 28% until we recover from the trainwreck that was 2018. But even that's up from about 19%.
That is simple: I counted the amount of money I had transferred to our stock accounts, as part of our nett income. So I just calculated savings rate, not stash growth.
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If you change jobs mid-year and if they are both normal 401k plans, the total yearly contribution is aggregated across both plans.
That means the aggregate contribution limit is still only $19k (not $38k) and you cannot contribute $19k to each plan.
If you max out $19k in the first job, it would be an overcontribution if you also contribute anything to the second job.
I think that @onlykelsey is moving to a government/non profit job where they will have access to the 457 plan.
]
Yes, exactly. Going from private to public (maybe).
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I had a coworker get a bit snarky with me after hearing that I went to Hamilton this weekend. "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money" We were talking about groceries last week and she admitted she spends $800 a month for her and her husband; that's $500 more than we spend! Really wanted to point out that she is spending $6K a year more than us on groceries and could go to any show she could possibly want for that much money. Our season tickets, which these were part of, cost us just $600 and include 7 shows.
I don't accept snarky comments. I prefer to toss some trenchant observations about the snark back, pretty much like a handgrenade into their foxhole. It tends to discourage them from snarking at or near me again.
Then again, I had FU money. But the real defense is that people who do that kind of snark do it to any and all possible victims, so you've got lots of passive support out there waiting to cheer you on.
Her: "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money!"
Me: "Sure is! I had a great time! I've heard you say you spend $800 a month on groceries for you and your husband. We spend $300 a month for the 3 of us. That's, let see, $500 per month times 12 months, why, that's $6000 more than us on just groceries! That's how we could afford that show. But hey, enough about me, you're clearly the expert here on big spending! Tell us more!"
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I'm damn impressed by 75%. I'm only at about 28% until we recover from the trainwreck that was 2018. But even that's up from about 19%.
That is simple: I counted the amount of money I had transferred to our stock accounts, as part of our nett income. So I just calculated savings rate, not stash growth.
to clarify: if you took 100k home after taxes, you invested 75k in stocks? not including home equity.
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I had a coworker get a bit snarky with me after hearing that I went to Hamilton this weekend. "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money" We were talking about groceries last week and she admitted she spends $800 a month for her and her husband; that's $500 more than we spend! Really wanted to point out that she is spending $6K a year more than us on groceries and could go to any show she could possibly want for that much money. Our season tickets, which these were part of, cost us just $600 and include 7 shows.
I don't accept snarky comments. I prefer to toss some trenchant observations about the snark back, pretty much like a handgrenade into their foxhole. It tends to discourage them from snarking at or near me again.
Then again, I had FU money. But the real defense is that people who do that kind of snark do it to any and all possible victims, so you've got lots of passive support out there waiting to cheer you on.
Her: "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money!"
Me: "Sure is! I had a great time! I've heard you say you spend $800 a month on groceries for you and your husband. We spend $300 a month for the 3 of us. That's, let see, $500 per month times 12 months, why, that's $6000 more than us on just groceries! That's how we could afford that show. But hey, enough about me, you're clearly the expert here on big spending! Tell us more!"
I don’t get why “must be nice” is even snarky. I mean I get the intent and tone are key here, but objectively it is nice. If someone said that to me, even sneakily, my response would probably just be “yeah it is nice”
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trenchant
thank you using a word I've never heard of....made me go look it up....I'm definately working it into the dinner conversation to see if DH knows it (his vocabulary is better than mine and we like this kind of stuff)
Definition of trenchant
1 : KEEN, SHARP
2 : vigorously effective and articulate
a trenchant analysis
also : CAUSTIC
trenchant remarks
3a : sharply perceptive : PENETRATING
a trenchant view of current conditions
b : CLEAR-CUT, DISTINCT
the trenchant divisions between right and wrong
— Edith Wharton
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From the French word « tranche » meaning “slice”. :)
I love how so many fancy words in English are just a normal French word meaning the same thing.
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From the French word « tranche » meaning “slice”. :)
I love how so many fancy words in English are just a normal French word meaning the same thing.
Very astut
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From the French word « tranche » meaning “slice”. :)
I love how so many fancy words in English are just a normal French word meaning the same thing.
It's all because of the Normans.
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I had a coworker get a bit snarky with me after hearing that I went to Hamilton this weekend. "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money" We were talking about groceries last week and she admitted she spends $800 a month for her and her husband; that's $500 more than we spend! Really wanted to point out that she is spending $6K a year more than us on groceries and could go to any show she could possibly want for that much money. Our season tickets, which these were part of, cost us just $600 and include 7 shows.
I don't accept snarky comments. I prefer to toss some trenchant observations about the snark back, pretty much like a handgrenade into their foxhole. It tends to discourage them from snarking at or near me again.
Then again, I had FU money. But the real defense is that people who do that kind of snark do it to any and all possible victims, so you've got lots of passive support out there waiting to cheer you on.
Her: "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money!"
Me: "Sure is! I had a great time! I've heard you say you spend $800 a month on groceries for you and your husband. We spend $300 a month for the 3 of us. That's, let see, $500 per month times 12 months, why, that's $6000 more than us on just groceries! That's how we could afford that show. But hey, enough about me, you're clearly the expert here on big spending! Tell us more!"
I don’t get why “must be nice” is even snarky. I mean I get the intent and tone are key here, but objectively it is nice. If someone said that to me, even sneakily, my response would probably just be “yeah it is nice”
I made the assumptions that the original poster knows mean-spirited snark vs other kinds of comments. It's not an unreasonable assumption to make. I also made the assumption that there was enough pattern of that behavior that all doubt about the mean spiritedness had been removed. (Sometimes people are just socially awkward, not mean.)
I believe that if people are being mean on a repeated basis, they need to be taught to stop doing that. If I choose a moment when the snark has targetted me, it's a way to defend other people without putting them in the spotlight, like it would if I stepped in to defend them when they got snarked.
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I'm damn impressed by 75%. I'm only at about 28% until we recover from the trainwreck that was 2018. But even that's up from about 19%.
That is simple: I counted the amount of money I had transferred to our stock accounts, as part of our nett income. So I just calculated savings rate, not stash growth.
to clarify: if you took 100k home after taxes, you invested 75k in stocks? not including home equity.
Yes.
We haven't had a mortgage for the last 13 years or so and that of course accelerated our savings rate. Our stash didn't grow more than a tiny bit in 2018. So the savings just went into a black hole, called the stock market.
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I'm going to throw out a second-hand 'heard at work'.
So I bought a home. And apparently it's the equivalent of having a birthday. I am emotionally pleased with my decision but I don't see it as a a celebratory thing. The math works out to being somewhat equivalent to renting (The NYTimes Rent vs Buy tradeoff calculator truly applies to me because I will be diverting cash once destined for market investments to pay the mortgage). So financially it's close to a wash at face value, though I will rent out a room so I will come out ahead.
At any rate I keep having these conversations:
CW: I head you bought a place!
Me: Yup
CW: Congratulations, you're way better off and no longer throwing money away.
Me: Thanks.
CW: [Sensing my blank expression] Are you happy?
Me: Yeah
I think the several years of 10% appreciation in my locale are painting the picture that the only way to get ahead is to buy a primary home...Coworkers cite the recent stock market correction but conveniently forget the entirety of the bull run, long-term market perfomances, long-term primary home valuations, carrying costs of owning a home, etc. No coworker has been biased the other way ,e.g. 'Yeah, I prefer renting because of the flexibility', etc...
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I'm going to throw out a second-hand 'heard at work'.
So I bought a home. And apparently it's the equivalent of having a birthday. I am emotionally pleased with my decision but I don't see it as a a celebratory thing. The math works out to being somewhat equivalent to renting (The NYTimes Rent vs Buy tradeoff calculator truly applies to me because I will be diverting cash once destined for market investments to pay the mortgage). So financially it's close to a wash at face value, though I will rent out a room so I will come out ahead.
At any rate I keep having these conversations:
CW: I head you bought a place!
Me: Yup
CW: Congratulations, you're way better off and no longer throwing money away.
Me: Thanks.
CW: [Sensing my blank expression] Are you happy?
Me: Yeah
I think the several years of 10% appreciation in my locale are painting the picture that the only way to get ahead is to buy a primary home...Coworkers cite the recent stock market correction but conveniently forget the entirety of the bull run, long-term market perfomances, long-term primary home valuations, carrying costs of owning a home, etc. No coworker has been biased the other way ,e.g. 'Yeah, I prefer renting because of the flexibility', etc...
I'm not sure that this perception is limited to the recent "several years of 10% appreciation". At least in the US the middle class is convinced that buying a home is the single best investment you can ever make, and anything else guarantees that you'll be poor forever. It's so extreme that people try to convince me to buy a condo at ~$2500/month with only ~$400 going to principal at first rather than renting for ~$1500. Right, because throwing $2100/month into interest, taxes, HOA is worth it for $400/mo in principal, but throwing $1500/mo into rent and $1000/mo into the stock market is throwing money away? Such a very ingrained assumption that people rarely look into the numbers before making a decision.
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Yeah you're right.
Talking to coworkers I found that the average down payment is 3-5%. I put down 10% and many of them gave an audible 'wow'.
side: to avoid facepunches, please know my PMI is $420 annually, effectively increasing my rate by 0.5% for 8 years. I haven't yet decided if it's worth extra payments to get to 20% or investing.
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From the French word « tranche » meaning “slice”. :)
I love how so many fancy words in English are just a normal French word meaning the same thing.
I once described myself and an American colleague (a one-time, near-Olympic heavyweight weightlifter) as the minions of one of our French colleagues(a petite younger lady).
And hilarity ensued. When the laughter died down, our French colleagues noted that mignon implied little dancing gay boys at the French court. And hilarity ensued.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mignon open up the the English historical noun dropdown
or the French -
mignon (feminine singular mignonne, masculine plural mignons, feminine plural mignonnes)
cute (of a baby, an animal, etc.)
cute (sexually attractive). -- neither of which really applies to us.
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I call my little girls “mignonne” all the time. ;)
Your story brings a smile to my face.
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I don't usually discuss finances with my coworkers, but I just had a weird conversation with one of them. We're contractors, and about 1.5 years ago our contract was taken over by a different company. Today a coworker asked me if I'd had a 401k with the previous company, and if so what I'd done with the money when the contract switched.
This guy is about 20 years older then me. He's definitely held way more professional jobs. But he apparently left that balance sitting there for 1.5 years without thinking about what to do with it. Our 401k options at the first company were horrible. He's probably lost a fuckton of money in fees. Plus he admitted he has another 401k lurking somewhere he's done nothing with.
Okay, whatever, a lot of Americans don't roll over their 401ks. Except during our conversation he said "I hope I didn't miss the window to get that money." Which implies that he actually thought there was a possibility that whatever money he contributed would disappear if he didn't do something about it, and then left it there anyway.
He also apparently never set up a 401k with our current company, because he "needed the money."
I hope he's got a trust fund or something waiting in the wings, because otherwise I fear for his ability to ever retire.
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I had a coworker get a bit snarky with me after hearing that I went to Hamilton this weekend. "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money" We were talking about groceries last week and she admitted she spends $800 a month for her and her husband; that's $500 more than we spend! Really wanted to point out that she is spending $6K a year more than us on groceries and could go to any show she could possibly want for that much money. Our season tickets, which these were part of, cost us just $600 and include 7 shows.
I don't accept snarky comments. I prefer to toss some trenchant observations about the snark back, pretty much like a handgrenade into their foxhole. It tends to discourage them from snarking at or near me again.
Then again, I had FU money. But the real defense is that people who do that kind of snark do it to any and all possible victims, so you've got lots of passive support out there waiting to cheer you on.
Her: "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money!"
Me: "Sure is! I had a great time! I've heard you say you spend $800 a month on groceries for you and your husband. We spend $300 a month for the 3 of us. That's, let see, $500 per month times 12 months, why, that's $6000 more than us on just groceries! That's how we could afford that show. But hey, enough about me, you're clearly the expert here on big spending! Tell us more!"
I don’t get why “must be nice” is even snarky. I mean I get the intent and tone are key here, but objectively it is nice. If someone said that to me, even sneakily, my response would probably just be “yeah it is nice”
I made the assumptions that the original poster knows mean-spirited snark vs other kinds of comments. It's not an unreasonable assumption to make. I also made the assumption that there was enough pattern of that behavior that all doubt about the mean spiritedness had been removed. (Sometimes people are just socially awkward, not mean.)
I believe that if people are being mean on a repeated basis, they need to be taught to stop doing that. If I choose a moment when the snark has targetted me, it's a way to defend other people without putting them in the spotlight, like it would if I stepped in to defend them when they got snarked.
Sometimes, the most efficient way to teach that lesson, is to be extraordinary nice and positive. "Oh, yes! I'm so glad you are happy for us, we enjoyed it so so much! [big smile and small hug]. All the money we don't waste on other stuff really pays off when we can do this type of thing. I am soooo glad we didn't waste it on mindless shopping or big food bills. You know, I heard some people spend $800/month on food! That must be so limiting!"
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I don't usually discuss finances with my coworkers, but I just had a weird conversation with one of them. We're contractors, and about 1.5 years ago our contract was taken over by a different company. Today a coworker asked me if I'd had a 401k with the previous company, and if so what I'd done with the money when the contract switched.
This guy is about 20 years older then me. He's definitely held way more professional jobs. But he apparently left that balance sitting there for 1.5 years without thinking about what to do with it. Our 401k options at the first company were horrible. He's probably lost a fuckton of money in fees. Plus he admitted he has another 401k lurking somewhere he's done nothing with.
Okay, whatever, a lot of Americans don't roll over their 401ks. Except during our conversation he said "I hope I didn't miss the window to get that money." Which implies that he actually thought there was a possibility that whatever money he contributed would disappear if he didn't do something about it, and then left it there anyway.
He also apparently never set up a 401k with our current company, because he "needed the money."
I hope he's got a trust fund or something waiting in the wings, because otherwise I fear for his ability to ever retire.
I left a small retirement account when I left a job about 10 years ago. My departure, and subsequent financial life, was...not good. I managed to follow the account for awhile. I didn't have anything to roll it into, so I just left it alone. Eventually, I lost track of it. About a year ago, I tried talking to the last known management company and all they could tell me was that it had been transfered somewhere else. A few days ago I got a letter saying that a new company has it. I tried to set up that account online this moring to roll it into my TSP. I've been divorced and remarried since then, so it looks like proving my identity is going to be a nightmare.
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$500 a month for cell phones and cable TV!
By my MMM Inc. mental yardstick that sounds so expensive.
My brain was automatically running down the opportunity cost.
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I had a coworker get a bit snarky with me after hearing that I went to Hamilton this weekend. "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money" We were talking about groceries last week and she admitted she spends $800 a month for her and her husband; that's $500 more than we spend! Really wanted to point out that she is spending $6K a year more than us on groceries and could go to any show she could possibly want for that much money. Our season tickets, which these were part of, cost us just $600 and include 7 shows.
I don't accept snarky comments. I prefer to toss some trenchant observations about the snark back, pretty much like a handgrenade into their foxhole. It tends to discourage them from snarking at or near me again.
Then again, I had FU money. But the real defense is that people who do that kind of snark do it to any and all possible victims, so you've got lots of passive support out there waiting to cheer you on.
Her: "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money!"
Me: "Sure is! I had a great time! I've heard you say you spend $800 a month on groceries for you and your husband. We spend $300 a month for the 3 of us. That's, let see, $500 per month times 12 months, why, that's $6000 more than us on just groceries! That's how we could afford that show. But hey, enough about me, you're clearly the expert here on big spending! Tell us more!"
I don’t get why “must be nice” is even snarky. I mean I get the intent and tone are key here, but objectively it is nice. If someone said that to me, even sneakily, my response would probably just be “yeah it is nice”
I made the assumptions that the original poster knows mean-spirited snark vs other kinds of comments. It's not an unreasonable assumption to make. I also made the assumption that there was enough pattern of that behavior that all doubt about the mean spiritedness had been removed. (Sometimes people are just socially awkward, not mean.)
I believe that if people are being mean on a repeated basis, they need to be taught to stop doing that. If I choose a moment when the snark has targetted me, it's a way to defend other people without putting them in the spotlight, like it would if I stepped in to defend them when they got snarked.
Sometimes, the most efficient way to teach that lesson, is to be extraordinary nice and positive. "Oh, yes! I'm so glad you are happy for us, we enjoyed it so so much! [big smile and small hug]. All the money we don't waste on other stuff really pays off when we can do this type of thing. I am soooo glad we didn't waste it on mindless shopping or big food bills. You know, I heard some people spend $800/month on food! That must be so limiting!"
That's an excellent method to use.
If it works, all the better. If it doesn't stop the behavior, one can escalate. Some people can take a hint, others a blunt comment, and some need a clue-by-four upside the head. It's usually best to start small and work up as needed.
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$500 a month for cell phones and cable TV!
By my MMM Inc. mental yardstick that sounds so expensive.
My brain was automatically running down the opportunity cost.
My dad who is otherwise fairly frugal and a good saver, spends $190+ per month for cable. Just cable (internet is a local company and cheap, cell phones through his work). Just so he can have the five channels he likes to watch. It makes my eye twitch a little every time he mentions it. Usually while complaining about the quality of service.
To bring this back around to the topic of the thread... a co-worker mentioned today in passing that they had a water heater go out this weekend. They replaced it, but now are $300 short until next pay day in two weeks for their monthly budget and they have to decide which bills to pay and which to see if they can get an extension.
Oomph... I know we hear this stuff and we see the headlines that most "Americans are $400 away from disaster" (Or whatever the exact amount is), but it's hard to imagine the stress of living like that all the time.
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HUD, if your dad is older he may watch more tv. We never had it when raising the kids but have it now in our 60’s. We watch tv more than we used to when working. We pay 200 for cable, internet and house phone. If we let the house phone go it’s more expensive.
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HUD, if your dad is older he may watch more tv. We never had it when raising the kids but have it now in our 60’s. We watch tv more than we used to when working. We pay 200 for cable, internet and house phone. If we let the house phone go it’s more expensive.
He totally does. And I'd never tell him I thought it was crazy... but it still makes my eye twitch a bit to think about paying that much for cable alone! It really amuses me more than anything. Dude will walk around a store three times picking up and putting back something he actually needs, but damned if he'll ever get rid of the western channel! He is super easy to get a gift for though, all I have to do is ask my step-mom what he has been talking himself out of for the last six months. ha!
Please note this is all said with affection. My dad is the best.
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HUD, if your dad is older he may watch more tv. We never had it when raising the kids but have it now in our 60’s. We watch tv more than we used to when working. We pay 200 for cable, internet and house phone. If we let the house phone go it’s more expensive.
He totally does. And I'd never tell him I thought it was crazy... but it still makes my eye twitch a bit to think about paying that much for cable alone! It really amuses me more than anything. Dude will walk around a store three times picking up and putting back something he actually needs, but damned if he'll ever get rid of the western channel! He is super easy to get a gift for though, all I have to do is ask my step-mom what he has been talking himself out of for the last six months. ha!
Please note this is all said with affection. My dad is the best.
Some cable companies have ala-carte options. I've gotten some flyers from my local internet/cable co.
I think you might have to look really hard to find them though, and the ala-carte options are basically one level above standard cable (ie. not premium channels).
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He also apparently never set up a 401k with our current company, because he "needed the money."
I recently started my first professional job with a 401k (after grad school). Due to Reasons, my company didn't do 401k deductions until last month, so I got to compare my paycheck with and without deductions, without willingly forgoing them. Turns out due to the tax exemption alone, I get almost $1.60 in my 401k per dollar out of my paycheck. Close to $600/mo if maxing it out, before match, etc!
I can't afford *not* to contribute, I need the money! ;)
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I had a coworker get a bit snarky with me after hearing that I went to Hamilton this weekend. "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money" We were talking about groceries last week and she admitted she spends $800 a month for her and her husband; that's $500 more than we spend! Really wanted to point out that she is spending $6K a year more than us on groceries and could go to any show she could possibly want for that much money. Our season tickets, which these were part of, cost us just $600 and include 7 shows.
I don't accept snarky comments. I prefer to toss some trenchant observations about the snark back, pretty much like a handgrenade into their foxhole. It tends to discourage them from snarking at or near me again.
Then again, I had FU money. But the real defense is that people who do that kind of snark do it to any and all possible victims, so you've got lots of passive support out there waiting to cheer you on.
Her: "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money!"
Me: "Sure is! I had a great time! I've heard you say you spend $800 a month on groceries for you and your husband. We spend $300 a month for the 3 of us. That's, let see, $500 per month times 12 months, why, that's $6000 more than us on just groceries! That's how we could afford that show. But hey, enough about me, you're clearly the expert here on big spending! Tell us more!"
I don’t get why “must be nice” is even snarky. I mean I get the intent and tone are key here, but objectively it is nice. If someone said that to me, even sneakily, my response would probably just be “yeah it is nice”
I made the assumptions that the original poster knows mean-spirited snark vs other kinds of comments. It's not an unreasonable assumption to make. I also made the assumption that there was enough pattern of that behavior that all doubt about the mean spiritedness had been removed. (Sometimes people are just socially awkward, not mean.)
I believe that if people are being mean on a repeated basis, they need to be taught to stop doing that. If I choose a moment when the snark has targetted me, it's a way to defend other people without putting them in the spotlight, like it would if I stepped in to defend them when they got snarked.
Sometimes, the most efficient way to teach that lesson, is to be extraordinary nice and positive. "Oh, yes! I'm so glad you are happy for us, we enjoyed it so so much! [big smile and small hug]. All the money we don't waste on other stuff really pays off when we can do this type of thing. I am soooo glad we didn't waste it on mindless shopping or big food bills. You know, I heard some people spend $800/month on food! That must be so limiting!"
uh, we spend $800 on food a month, and without any take out and hardly any comfort food
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I had a coworker get a bit snarky with me after hearing that I went to Hamilton this weekend. "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money" We were talking about groceries last week and she admitted she spends $800 a month for her and her husband; that's $500 more than we spend! Really wanted to point out that she is spending $6K a year more than us on groceries and could go to any show she could possibly want for that much money. Our season tickets, which these were part of, cost us just $600 and include 7 shows.
I don't accept snarky comments. I prefer to toss some trenchant observations about the snark back, pretty much like a handgrenade into their foxhole. It tends to discourage them from snarking at or near me again.
Then again, I had FU money. But the real defense is that people who do that kind of snark do it to any and all possible victims, so you've got lots of passive support out there waiting to cheer you on.
Her: "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money!"
Me: "Sure is! I had a great time! I've heard you say you spend $800 a month on groceries for you and your husband. We spend $300 a month for the 3 of us. That's, let see, $500 per month times 12 months, why, that's $6000 more than us on just groceries! That's how we could afford that show. But hey, enough about me, you're clearly the expert here on big spending! Tell us more!"
I don’t get why “must be nice” is even snarky. I mean I get the intent and tone are key here, but objectively it is nice. If someone said that to me, even sneakily, my response would probably just be “yeah it is nice”
I made the assumptions that the original poster knows mean-spirited snark vs other kinds of comments. It's not an unreasonable assumption to make. I also made the assumption that there was enough pattern of that behavior that all doubt about the mean spiritedness had been removed. (Sometimes people are just socially awkward, not mean.)
I believe that if people are being mean on a repeated basis, they need to be taught to stop doing that. If I choose a moment when the snark has targetted me, it's a way to defend other people without putting them in the spotlight, like it would if I stepped in to defend them when they got snarked.
Sometimes, the most efficient way to teach that lesson, is to be extraordinary nice and positive. "Oh, yes! I'm so glad you are happy for us, we enjoyed it so so much! [big smile and small hug]. All the money we don't waste on other stuff really pays off when we can do this type of thing. I am soooo glad we didn't waste it on mindless shopping or big food bills. You know, I heard some people spend $800/month on food! That must be so limiting!"
uh, we spend $800 on food a month, and without any take out and hardly any comfort food
Probably depends on how many people are in your household.
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To bring this back around to the topic of the thread... a co-worker mentioned today in passing that they had a water heater go out this weekend. They replaced it, but now are $300 short until next pay day in two weeks for their monthly budget and they have to decide which bills to pay and which to see if they can get an extension.
Oomph... I know we hear this stuff and we see the headlines that most "Americans are $400 away from disaster" (Or whatever the exact amount is), but it's hard to imagine the stress of living like that all the time.
There's a mental hurdle that I can't get over... How is it that people pre-allocate every dollar to some expense before the money arrives? I mean I went through this when I was poor, but I find it hard to accomplish when there is alot of cash flowing. I guess someone is like 'I have X surplus so I can afford Y each month. Oh, our son likes soccer and that costs Z per month. We still have X-Y available so now we have X-Y-Z.. ad infinitum until the remainder is close to 0.'. But I mean.. I just don't understand that decision making process.
I really enjoy having flexibility to change my cash flow's allocation as life changes and that my bank account ebbs and flows as savings go in or one-time big expenses go out.
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To bring this back around to the topic of the thread... a co-worker mentioned today in passing that they had a water heater go out this weekend. They replaced it, but now are $300 short until next pay day in two weeks for their monthly budget and they have to decide which bills to pay and which to see if they can get an extension.
Oomph... I know we hear this stuff and we see the headlines that most "Americans are $400 away from disaster" (Or whatever the exact amount is), but it's hard to imagine the stress of living like that all the time.
There's a mental hurdle that I can't get over... How is it that people pre-allocate every dollar to some expense before the money arrives? I mean I went through this when I was poor, but I find it hard to accomplish when there is alot of cash flowing. I guess someone is like 'I have X surplus so I can afford Y each month. Oh, our son likes soccer and that costs Z per month. We still have X-Y available so now we have X-Y-Z.. ad infinitum until the remainder is close to 0.'. But I mean.. I just don't understand that decision making process.
I really enjoy having flexibility to change my cash flow's allocation as life changes and that my bank account ebbs and flows as savings go in or one-time big expenses go out.
Part of it comes down to "If I can afford the payments, I can afford the thing."
Being on the savings side of the mental hurdle is why I am most impressed with people who come here and make the lifestyle changes.
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To bring this back around to the topic of the thread... a co-worker mentioned today in passing that they had a water heater go out this weekend. They replaced it, but now are $300 short until next pay day in two weeks for their monthly budget and they have to decide which bills to pay and which to see if they can get an extension.
Oomph... I know we hear this stuff and we see the headlines that most "Americans are $400 away from disaster" (Or whatever the exact amount is), but it's hard to imagine the stress of living like that all the time.
There's a mental hurdle that I can't get over... How is it that people pre-allocate every dollar to some expense before the money arrives? I mean I went through this when I was poor, but I find it hard to accomplish when there is alot of cash flowing. I guess someone is like 'I have X surplus so I can afford Y each month. Oh, our son likes soccer and that costs Z per month. We still have X-Y available so now we have X-Y-Z.. ad infinitum until the remainder is close to 0.'. But I mean.. I just don't understand that decision making process.
I really enjoy having flexibility to change my cash flow's allocation as life changes and that my bank account ebbs and flows as savings go in or one-time big expenses go out.
I do that....with the caveat that everything that doesn't get allocated to something else is designated as savings (or, unfortunately, loan repayments at the moment). Day to day, it keeps me accountable. Freedom for me is knowing that I have $X to spend on Y so I don't stress about spending it because that's what it's there for. I also know that if I run out of money for Y that I shouldn't pull it from Z because it's a different color of money, so to speak. That's not to say that I can't change the color of some money, but it's a thought out process instead of on the fly.
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To bring this back around to the topic of the thread... a co-worker mentioned today in passing that they had a water heater go out this weekend. They replaced it, but now are $300 short until next pay day in two weeks for their monthly budget and they have to decide which bills to pay and which to see if they can get an extension.
Oomph... I know we hear this stuff and we see the headlines that most "Americans are $400 away from disaster" (Or whatever the exact amount is), but it's hard to imagine the stress of living like that all the time.
I've always wondered how they phrase the question on the survey.....depending on how they asked the question, I might answer yes.....there are times when there is less than $100 in my checking account (I don't count the $2,000 that keeps in above the minimum because I'm not paying fees for all the features the account has).....and since we're FI, just not RE (next year), it's not like I don't have the money 'somewhere', just not in my chequing account. I am a cynic, and I often read survey questions and know what answer they're trying to elicit. And I'm also damn good at manipulating statistics to produce the chart that 'proves' whatever point I want to make.
But I also know I don't live in the 'real' world, and DH and I joke about living 'pay cheque to pay cheque', but that's only because I moved the money out of the chequing account on pay day to a higher purpose. 99% of all our spending goes on a credit card, for an unexpected expense doesn't really show up for a month.....and given that time and our cash flow, it would no longer be an unexpected expense, it would be in my spreadsheet (I love spreadsheets)......I also know it's a gift of genetics and environment that allows me to do a job that pays me well, and a brain that thinks the way it does (the way this community does)
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I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues buys breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.
Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.
Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.
But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.
And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?
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I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.
Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.
Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.
But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.
And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?
I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?
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I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.
Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.
Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.
But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.
And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?
I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?
She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.
She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.
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I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.
Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.
Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.
But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.
And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?
I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?
She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.
She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.
Just....sourdough bread and butter? For $8?
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I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.
Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.
Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.
But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.
And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?
I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?
She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.
She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.
Just....sourdough bread and butter? For $8?
The $8 probably had the option of having jam or Vegemite as well as butter (well that is what its like at the cafe near my place for $6)
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I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.
Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.
Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.
But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.
And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?
I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?
She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.
She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.
Just....sourdough bread and butter? For $8?
The $8 probably had the option of having jam or Vegemite as well as butter (well that is what its like at the cafe near my place for $6)
Bingo, Vegemite.
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I do that....with the caveat that everything that doesn't get allocated to something else is designated as savings (or, unfortunately, loan repayments at the moment). Day to day, it keeps me accountable. Freedom for me is knowing that I have $X to spend on Y so I don't stress about spending it because that's what it's there for. I also know that if I run out of money for Y that I shouldn't pull it from Z because it's a different color of money, so to speak. That's not to say that I can't change the color of some money, but it's a thought out process instead of on the fly.
I see, I suppose I do the same. I have regular bills + savings that are equally pre-destined for a set amount of money to go towards. The remainder is 'homeless' and ends accumulating as cash until I usually buy investments with it.
I am very averse to accumulating frequent one-off purchases or fixed, monthly costs. I think it's just that I come from a scarcity mindset..
Your point reminds me of a way of framing savings. As in 'I'm still spending my money on all things I want. I just want to make more freedom purchases instead of lattes'. Sounds a bit more of a mustachian approach to money.
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I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.
Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.
Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.
But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.
And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?
I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?
She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.
She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.
But...you could easily buy a whole loaf of good bread and half-pound of coffee beans for $12 even at Whole Foods! Toast and coffee is the easiest thing!
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I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.
Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.
Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.
But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.
And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?
I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?
She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.
She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.
But...you could easily buy a whole loaf of good bread and half-pound of coffee beans for $12 even at Whole Foods! Toast and coffee is the easiest thing!
Yeah, but how much does vegemite cost in the US?
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I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.
Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.
Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.
But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.
And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?
I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?
She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.
She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.
Wow, and just a few years ago people were up in arms about a mere $4 toast (https://www.businessinsider.com/we-tried-the-fancy-4-toast-san-francisco-is-going-crazy-for-2015-6)
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I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.
Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.
Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.
But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.
And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?
I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?
She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.
She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.
But...you could easily buy a whole loaf of good bread and half-pound of coffee beans for $12 even at Whole Foods! Toast and coffee is the easiest thing!
Yeah, but how much does vegemite cost in the US?
Amazon says $9.42 for a 150-g jar. It seems like one could spend $20 and have enough bread, vegemite, and coffee for at least a week of breakfast.
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So.... she pays $12 for breakfast every day? Does she also pay for lunch???
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I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.
Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.
Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.
But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.
And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?
I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?
She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.
She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.
EIGHT BUCKS FOR TOAST??? No wonder it's not a thing in NZ. We're a cheap nation. Bloody eight dollars for toast.
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Hold up, maybe she’s a millennial and it’s avocado toast, which is why she can’t afford a house
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So.... she pays $12 for breakfast every day? Does she also pay for lunch???
Yep.
And a vending machine Coke and a second coffee.
And Uber Eats for dinner.
She tells me that I'm unusually careful with money. I ... don't think I'm the unusual one.
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So.... she pays $12 for breakfast every day? Does she also pay for lunch???
Yep.
And a vending machine Coke and a second coffee.
And Uber Eats for dinner.
She tells me that I'm unusually careful with money. I ... don't think I'm the unusual one.
I think we are indeed the unusual ones. Maybe is is not solely about making all our meals at home, but it's also about having cheap vacations (I am the only one at work who camps in a tent), not having cable TV, not using streaming services, not buying new clothes all the time, not having expensive cell phones and driving an old car.
But this co-worker above is on the other side of the scale. I guess most people are a bit more in between.
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I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.
Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.
Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.
But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.
And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?
I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?
She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.
She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.
But...you could easily buy a whole loaf of good bread and half-pound of coffee beans for $12 even at Whole Foods! Toast and coffee is the easiest thing!
Yeah, but how much does vegemite cost in the US?
Amazon says $9.42 for a 150-g jar. It seems like one could spend $20 and have enough bread, vegemite, and coffee for at least a week of breakfast.
Wow, we pay AU$6 for a 380g jar here in Australia. You guys should fly here and load up a suitcase (like the chinese do with our baby formula)
@mustachepungoeshere I too have a friend who loves his sourdough.... $10,000* a year habit.
Makes me die a little inside.
*Edit to clarify, meant to say it's all food during the day - includes sourdough brekkie, work lunches and coffees.
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So.... she pays $12 for breakfast every day? Does she also pay for lunch???
Yep.
And a vending machine Coke and a second coffee.
And Uber Eats for dinner.
She tells me that I'm unusually careful with money. I ... don't think I'm the unusual one.
That's crazy. I often think that these super spendy people have never been financially tested. They've never been without an income, or seen their parents without an income. They have no idea how quickly things can go wrong.
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I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.
Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.
Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.
But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.
And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?
I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?
She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.
She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.
But...you could easily buy a whole loaf of good bread and half-pound of coffee beans for $12 even at Whole Foods! Toast and coffee is the easiest thing!
Or $6 at Aldi, and that's for the good stuff, not the bargain brands.
Also, HOLY SHIT $8 for toast? AUD to USD exchange is .71 right now but that's still $5.68 USD. I'd rather starve. I mean fast, I'd rather fast.
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EIGHT BUCKS FOR TOAST??? No wonder it's not a thing in NZ. We're a cheap nation. Bloody eight dollars for toast.
Don't post her budget! it'll leave a burn mark on my screen.
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I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.
Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.
Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.
But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.
And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?
I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?
She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.
She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.
But...you could easily buy a whole loaf of good bread and half-pound of coffee beans for $12 even at Whole Foods! Toast and coffee is the easiest thing!
Or $6 at Aldi, and that's for the good stuff, not the bargain brands.
Also, HOLY SHIT $8 for toast? AUD to USD exchange is .71 right now but that's still $5.68 USD. I'd rather starve. I mean fast, I'd rather fast.
Of course, but I’m extrapolating from my own experiences. The people I know who would have no qualms about dropping $12 on toast and coffee every morning are the same people who refuse to shop at Aldi because it’s “weird.” They may be convinced to slum it at Trader Joe’s.
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So.... she pays $12 for breakfast every day? Does she also pay for lunch???
Yep.
And a vending machine Coke and a second coffee.
And Uber Eats for dinner.
She tells me that I'm unusually careful with money. I ... don't think I'm the unusual one.
That's crazy. I often think that these super spendy people have never been financially tested. They've never been without an income, or seen their parents without an income. They have no idea how quickly things can go wrong.
I had a conversation like that a while back. Person told me to be less careful with money and have more fun (spendypants fun obviously, frugal fun isn't real fun). Live is for living you know, you might fall ill tomorrow and then you've saved all this money for nothing.
Actually, I did get pretty seriously ill in my early 20s and I can't tell you how glad I was that I had money saved up. The costs add up quickly even in a country with cheap health care. I was able to outsource things like cleaning, paid for loads of extra physical therapy, had money to travel to the most specialized hospital in the country. I'm doing much better now because I had money then - and if something happens to me now, my partner won't struggle financially (at all). This is worth more than 1000 trips to Thailand for me. Plus, when I was ill I was way too busy being ill to even think about memories from the past.
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I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.
Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.
Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.
But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.
And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?
I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?
She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.
She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.
But...you could easily buy a whole loaf of good bread and half-pound of coffee beans for $12 even at Whole Foods! Toast and coffee is the easiest thing!
Or $6 at Aldi, and that's for the good stuff, not the bargain brands.
Also, HOLY SHIT $8 for toast? AUD to USD exchange is .71 right now but that's still $5.68 USD. I'd rather starve. I mean fast, I'd rather fast.
Of course, but I’m extrapolating from my own experiences. The people I know who would have no qualms about dropping $12 on toast and coffee every morning are the same people who refuse to shop at Aldi because it’s “weird.” They may be convinced to slum it at Trader Joe’s.
My husband had to explain to a coworker what Aldi actually was. The coworker thought it was a "about-to-expire" food discount store.
on the subject of the toast, I had a moment similar to when dogs will move their heads in confusion.
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i had a starbucks gift card someone gave me and with it i got a cup of tea.
and it was 2.75 USD for a regular tea bag in a cup.
and this was 8 years ago, maybe it's more now.
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but toast, that's messed up.
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My husband had to explain to a coworker what Aldi actually was. The coworker thought it was a "about-to-expire" food discount store.
I have to admit that the first time we went to Aldi, my husband picked up a gallon of milk and when we got home I noticed that it expired that day. So there may be something to your co-worker's theory. I just make extra sure now to check expiration dates!
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My husband had to explain to a coworker what Aldi actually was. The coworker thought it was a "about-to-expire" food discount store.
I have to admit that the first time we went to Aldi, my husband picked up a gallon of milk and when we got home I noticed that it expired that day. So there may be something to your co-worker's theory. I just make extra sure now to check expiration dates!
Meh. Drink it anyway. Even when it smells a little funky, it still tastes fine.
Rather than thinking of it as old milk, think of it as really, really young cheese.
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Recently a co-workers (aged around 25yr) asked for some suggestions about managing personal finances.
I welcomed the discussion and appreciated her enthusiasm.
Me: How much do you normally save in a month or in a year.
CW: I want to save RMB 10,000 (around USD 1500) this year. I am only RMB 20,000 away from the target.
Me: (Facepalm)
Showed her a monthly budget app. She was quite amazed to see such apps exist.
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i had a starbucks gift card someone gave me and with it i got a cup of tea.
and it was 2.75 USD for a regular tea bag in a cup.
and this was 8 years ago, maybe it's more now.
I have about $40 worth of Starbucks gift cards that I got from various work things. So, obviously, I went to Starbucks. I don't normally go out for coffee. Since this wasn't my money, I opted to splurge and get something fancy. I ordered a grande vanilla latte with soy milk and an extra shot of espresso. $6.80. Holllleeeee shiiiittttt.
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Rather than thinking of it as old milk, think of it as really, really young cheese.
Thanks, I needed that chuckle - 5 internet points to you!
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i had a starbucks gift card someone gave me and with it i got a cup of tea.
and it was 2.75 USD for a regular tea bag in a cup.
and this was 8 years ago, maybe it's more now.
I have about $40 worth of Starbucks gift cards that I got from various work things. So, obviously, I went to Starbucks. I don't normally go out for coffee. Since this wasn't my money, I opted to splurge and get something fancy. I ordered a grande vanilla latte with soy milk and an extra shot of espresso. $6.80. Holllleeeee shiiiittttt.
It's probably not worth it for gift cards in that amount, but you can sell unwanted gift cards to raise.com at a discount. I haven't sold to them, but I've bought from them and it's always worked perfectly.
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...
Meh. Drink it anyway. Even when it smells a little funky, it still tastes fine.
Rather than thinking of it as old milk, think of it as really, really young cheese.
This is legit! If your milk's about to expire, there are tons of ways to use it, but specifically I used to make a lot of cheese with Aldi milk: heat/acid curdled cheeses can be fried or just cubed up for pasta dishes or snacking. Older milk is great to seed with yogurt for more-yogurt, too, which also blends into great frozen yogurt with some brown sugar. And Aldi sells a good rustic Italian loaf that, once stale, makes a killer bread pudding with milk or cream on the edge; dates just give you an approximate sense of how old something is.
But on-topic - coworkers were discussing budgeting with the usual "I-can't"-isms, and one of them cited among reasons budgets didn't apply well to their situation was that they keep having changes in their circumstances that throw off their planning: a promotion, a raise... how does MORE income throw off a budget?
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But on-topic - coworkers were discussing budgeting with the usual "I-can't"-isms, and one of them cited among reasons budgets didn't apply well to their situation was that they keep having changes in their circumstances that throw off their planning: a promotion, a raise... how does MORE income throw off a budget?
I have heard people say this, my company does payrises in March, a few people who had new years resolutions around saving more or budgeting or paying off debt have basically said its no point trying to start yes as it all changes in March. I tried saying they could have started and then with what ever payrise they get they just put the total amount towards the debt since they know they can live off pre-payrise money but apparently thats crazy talk
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But on-topic - coworkers were discussing budgeting with the usual "I-can't"-isms, and one of them cited among reasons budgets didn't apply well to their situation was that they keep having changes in their circumstances that throw off their planning: a promotion, a raise... how does MORE income throw off a budget?
Well DUH! A person has to spend all of it. Can't leave any money in the bank account at the end of the month. It gets stale like bread.
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It gets stale like bread.
That made me laugh
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It gets stale like bread.
That made me laugh
I've also read (on the internet, of course) that it can mold. So yeah, it's gotta be spent before it goes bad.
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Wait... 49 people... in HOTELS, and MEALS, and GIFTS, FOR A WEEK? (Please note my tone of my voice rises until it hits a screech at the end of the sentence....)
I knew I shouldn't be grumpy at getting stuck with the bill for Christmas Dinner! I certainly wasn't planning on hosting my brother, parents, grandparents, and in-laws...
$200+ for that meal probably extended my time to FIRE by less than a day... small price for keeping the peace.
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Ya'll. I'm sure this thread is lousy with coworker car buying examples, but I'm so astounded that I just have to share. Also, because it's probably not appropriate for me to gossip about AT work...
Our new coworker, who is 23 or 24 was buying her first (well, second) car. Meaning, she's been driving the same old Toyota since high school that has over 200,000 miles, etc. We all gave her some advice and tried to point her in the right direction. One of my coworkers even sold used cars for a few months after she graduated from college over a decade ago, and she has great advice about how to deal with dealerships if you are going that route.
Cut to this morning. She's STOKED about her new used car. It's a 2018 RAV4. Which, of course, is a much newer and more expensive used car than I would ever buy, but she shares a house with roommates and has no kids and so I'm not going to judge too much.
But then she starts telling us about her extended warranty, gap coverage, and how her payments are only $455 a month. It took ALL MY WILLPOWER not to drop my jaw. THEN, my other coworker (whom I must mention is the NICEST and MOST WONDERFUL PERSON IN THE WORLD and would give you the shirt off her back, so I feel terrible saying this) goes "oh yeah, gap insurance, that's legit".
I am DYING over here. I refused to s*** on her happiness about her new car, but oh my god. It made me grateful that I've always bought cheaper cars and also always done a ton of research before ever going through the car buying process.
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Ya'll. I'm sure this thread is lousy with coworker car buying examples, but I'm so astounded that I just have to share. Also, because it's probably not appropriate for me to gossip about AT work...
Our new coworker, who is 23 or 24 was buying her first (well, second) car. Meaning, she's been driving the same old Toyota since high school that has over 200,000 miles, etc. We all gave her some advice and tried to point her in the right direction. One of my coworkers even sold used cars for a few months after she graduated from college over a decade ago, and she has great advice about how to deal with dealerships if you are going that route.
Cut to this morning. She's STOKED about her new used car. It's a 2018 RAV4. Which, of course, is a much newer and more expensive used car than I would ever buy, but she shares a house with roommates and has no kids and so I'm not going to judge too much.
But then she starts telling us about her extended warranty, gap coverage, and how her payments are only $455 a month. It took ALL MY WILLPOWER not to drop my jaw. THEN, my other coworker (whom I must mention is the NICEST and MOST WONDERFUL PERSON IN THE WORLD and would give you the shirt off her back, so I feel terrible saying this) goes "oh yeah, gap insurance, that's legit".
I am DYING over here. I refused to s*** on her happiness about her new car, but oh my god. It made me grateful that I've always bought cheaper cars and also always done a ton of research before ever going through the car buying process.
At least she's (probably) not stretching it out to a 7 year loan...
Trying to give her the benefit of the doubt here.
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Ya'll. I'm sure this thread is lousy with coworker car buying examples, but I'm so astounded that I just have to share. Also, because it's probably not appropriate for me to gossip about AT work...
Our new coworker, who is 23 or 24 was buying her first (well, second) car. Meaning, she's been driving the same old Toyota since high school that has over 200,000 miles, etc. We all gave her some advice and tried to point her in the right direction. One of my coworkers even sold used cars for a few months after she graduated from college over a decade ago, and she has great advice about how to deal with dealerships if you are going that route.
Cut to this morning. She's STOKED about her new used car. It's a 2018 RAV4. Which, of course, is a much newer and more expensive used car than I would ever buy, but she shares a house with roommates and has no kids and so I'm not going to judge too much.
But then she starts telling us about her extended warranty, gap coverage, and how her payments are only $455 a month. It took ALL MY WILLPOWER not to drop my jaw. THEN, my other coworker (whom I must mention is the NICEST and MOST WONDERFUL PERSON IN THE WORLD and would give you the shirt off her back, so I feel terrible saying this) goes "oh yeah, gap insurance, that's legit".
I am DYING over here. I refused to s*** on her happiness about her new car, but oh my god. It made me grateful that I've always bought cheaper cars and also always done a ton of research before ever going through the car buying process.
At least she's (probably) not stretching it out to a 7 year loan...
Trying to give her the benefit of the doubt here.
I know! I did a rough calculation and it's probably a 5 year loan...but damn. That's a long time to be locked into $455 payments!
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My husband had to explain to a coworker what Aldi actually was. The coworker thought it was a "about-to-expire" food discount store.
Nothing wrong with those either!
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Gap insurance in indeed legit if you don’t have a lot of money
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She's STOKED about her new used car. It's a 2018 RAV4.
She could have still had more or less a new car had she gone for a three year old off-lease. Those still only have 40K miles and the payment would be much lower. 40K miles ain't nothing when a modern car will last north of 250K miles if well kept.
I've even seen 15 year old cars with low miles. That can be a real money saver done right.
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I've even seen 15 year old cars with low miles. That can be a real money saver done right.
I once bought a 10 year old car with low mileage and well kept. We used it as car number two, for driving short distances to the train station, which is a bit too far to walk to. The car is now in it's 19th year. Last year it needed a new wheel bearer, but that is the only repair we have had in all those years.
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But then she starts telling us about her extended warranty, gap coverage, and how her payments are only $455 a month.
Not overheard at work, but this car payment reminds me of something I over-read in a moms' group:
A mom was complaining about the cost of childcare - which I agree is expensive, but (for me) a necessary and justified expense. But then she lost me when she said, "$2000/mo? That's ridiculous! It's even more than my car payment!"
Whaaaat?? The idea that someone has a monthly car payment anywhere near that amount is totally shocking to me. I thought bills like that were for movie stars and CEOs! I'm still begrudgingly paying off my husband's $155/mo payment and it hurts every time I see the money leave our account.
And the thought that anyone would be surprised and indignant about paying more for childcare than their car was a little saddening. Priorities people!
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But on-topic - coworkers were discussing budgeting with the usual "I-can't"-isms, and one of them cited among reasons budgets didn't apply well to their situation was that they keep having changes in their circumstances that throw off their planning: a promotion, a raise... how does MORE income throw off a budget?
Well DUH! A person has to spend all of it. Can't leave any money in the bank account at the end of the month. It gets stale like bread.
Nope. It goes bad like milk. Too bad they don't turn it into tasty cheese.
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I made many bad car decisions (and decisions in general) when I was younger, all of which started during the height of gas prices after Katrina. Sold the (paid-off) truck my dad gave to me because the cost of gas was killing me for my 90 minute (!) commute. Bought a 1981 Toyota Celica with 220,000 miles on it, into which I had to immediately invest thousands of dollars to repair. To be fair, I loved that car so much, even though the thing could barely go 70 without feeling like the engine was going to 'splode and didn't have working seatbelts when I got it (what was I thinking?!)...when you were on a winding back road low to the ground shifting with the 5 speed, you felt like you were a Formula 1 driver. One day in a rainstorm when I hadn't rolled the window up using the special technique you needed to get a good seal and subsequently sat down in a puddle, I donated it to Kars for Kids (the jingle is now stuck in my head again). This would be a great weekend project car now that I'm in a far different and better stage of life, but alas...
Anyway, this is not a Face Punch Me thread, so to the point at hand...
Received this text from my wife today: "I just heard one of the nurses say to another nurse, 'Do you have a credit card? Can I use your credit card to book a vacation and I'll pay you $50 a week?'"
So much wrong with the statement and the thought process (or lack of) that lead to the statement...I'm can't stop thinking about this.
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Valentine's Day is upon us...
My coworker just got this weird box of roses from a company called Venus et Fleur. She kept exclaiming that they last a year so I had to google the company to see if that was real. The roses cost FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS.
All of her coworkers keep fussing over how beautiful they are and 3 people have sent pictures to their significant others. Another woman counted how many roses there were--I'm sure so she could figure out if it was the $300 or $400 arrangement.
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But on-topic - coworkers were discussing budgeting with the usual "I-can't"-isms, and one of them cited among reasons budgets didn't apply well to their situation was that they keep having changes in their circumstances that throw off their planning: a promotion, a raise... how does MORE income throw off a budget?
Well DUH! A person has to spend all of it. Can't leave any money in the bank account at the end of the month. It gets stale like bread.
Nope. It goes bad like milk. Too bad they don't turn it into tasty cheese.
Fun fact: Cheddar isn't naturally yellow. They add a food coloring so it will be more visible in case of an airplane crash.
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Received this text from my wife today: "I just heard one of the nurses say to another nurse, 'Do you have a credit card? Can I use your credit card to book a vacation and I'll pay you $50 a week?'"
No words.
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Received this text from my wife today: "I just heard one of the nurses say to another nurse, 'Do you have a credit card? Can I use your credit card to book a vacation and I'll pay you $50 a week?'"
No words.
cannot compute.....cannot fathom.....the optimist in me wants to believe your wife over-heard a joke.
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The co-worker in the office next to me is leaving after 20+ years where I work. I thought good for him kids out of college, trying something new. Heard through the grapevine that he had to leave so he could access his 401k to pay of debtors.
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The co-worker in the office next to me is leaving after 20+ years where I work. I thought good for him kids out of college, trying something new. Heard through the grapevine that he had to leave so he could access his 401k to pay of debtors.
Wouldn't it be better to keep the job and pay the penalty on the 401k??
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The co-worker in the office next to me is leaving after 20+ years where I work. I thought good for him kids out of college, trying something new. Heard through the grapevine that he had to leave so he could access his 401k to pay of debtors.
Wouldn't it be better to keep the job and pay the penalty on the 401k??
Some plans don't allow "in service" distributions. He applied and got denied and that's how we all know.
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Hold up, maybe she’s a millennial and it’s avocado toast, which is why she can’t afford a house
OT, but a friend noticed I was making avocado toast once and said, "You own a house, you're allowed."
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Valentine's Day is upon us...
My coworker just got this weird box of roses from a company called Venus et Fleur. She kept exclaiming that they last a year so I had to google the company to see if that was real. The roses cost FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS.
All of her coworkers keep fussing over how beautiful they are and 3 people have sent pictures to their significant others. Another woman counted how many roses there were--I'm sure so she could figure out if it was the $300 or $400 arrangement.
I had to look this up.
Basically, they are embalmed flowers (https://www.businessinsider.com/celeb-favorite-venus-et-fleur-2016-8). I have an involuntary “ew” reaction to that. 🤢
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I had to look this up.
Basically, they are embalmed flowers (https://www.businessinsider.com/celeb-favorite-venus-et-fleur-2016-8). I have an involuntary “ew” reaction to that. 🤢
The website doesn't let me read the article as long as I don't switch off my ad-blocker, which I won't do. :-(
But what a concept. I understand that the concept sells, apart from the absurd price...
When I ever buy flowers (a few times a year), I usually buy roses, because they normally last longer than most other flowers.
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And the thought that anyone would be surprised and indignant about paying more for childcare than their car was a little saddening. Priorities people!
Well, at least a car is useful. /s
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Received this text from my wife today: "I just heard one of the nurses say to another nurse, 'Do you have a credit card? Can I use your credit card to book a vacation and I'll pay you $50 a week?'"
PLEASE tell me the other nurse said no right away!
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Valentine's Day is upon us...
My coworker just got this weird box of roses from a company called Venus et Fleur. She kept exclaiming that they last a year so I had to google the company to see if that was real. The roses cost FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS.
All of her coworkers keep fussing over how beautiful they are and 3 people have sent pictures to their significant others. Another woman counted how many roses there were--I'm sure so she could figure out if it was the $300 or $400 arrangement.
I had to look this up.
Basically, they are embalmed flowers (https://www.businessinsider.com/celeb-favorite-venus-et-fleur-2016-8). I have an involuntary “ew” reaction to that. 🤢
I have a negative reaction to cut flowere. Eww... severed sex organs for purely viewing pleasure..
Associations llke The Bobbits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_and_Lorena_Bobbitt come to mind.
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I think I just outed myself at work. The guys were having a discussion about how sometimes working too much overtime will push you into the next tax bracket (obviously they don't understand marginal tax brackets and I didn't have it in me to explain it). The discussion turned to how much it would take to max out our TSP and without thinking I blurted out how much it would take, to the penny. At least one of them was also under the impression that the agency match counted toward that limit. I think this stemmed from some badly explained info from a retirement seminar years ago.
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Valentine's Day is upon us...
My coworker just got this weird box of roses from a company called Venus et Fleur. She kept exclaiming that they last a year so I had to google the company to see if that was real. The roses cost FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS.
All of her coworkers keep fussing over how beautiful they are and 3 people have sent pictures to their significant others. Another woman counted how many roses there were--I'm sure so she could figure out if it was the $300 or $400 arrangement.
I had to look this up.
Basically, they are embalmed flowers (https://www.businessinsider.com/celeb-favorite-venus-et-fleur-2016-8). I have an involuntary “ew” reaction to that. 🤢
I have a negative reaction to cut flowere. Eww... severed sex organs for purely viewing pleasure..
Associations llke The Bobbits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_and_Lorena_Bobbitt come to mind.
I also have a negative reaction to flowers: watery eyes, sneezing, asthma in the worst cases ...
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Received this text from my wife today: "I just heard one of the nurses say to another nurse, 'Do you have a credit card? Can I use your credit card to book a vacation and I'll pay you $50 a week?'"
PLEASE tell me the other nurse said no right away!
I could not stop thinking about this and my wife later said she wasn't sure if the person was joking or not. With the nonsense I see people pull (a grandmother in her 30s [went to high school with her] creating a GoFundMe page to raise $5,000 because she's pregnant again and the dad is...surprise surprise...not in the picture), I'm inclined to think this was a real request. Because why not owe someone $50/week instead of save $50/week to pay for a vacation? You deserve the vacation now!
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My boyfriend's coworkers/friends were complaining about getting an advance on their paychecks before Christmas (paid 1.5-2 months pay all at once). They were upset because - as we all know - that means you have to make the money last longer...
Here's the cringey bit:
Later I asked my boyfriend if that was normal for his coworkers and he said, "Yeah, before I met you I would literally put everything on my debit card and spendspendspendspendspend until it was declined. Check the date. 'Oh shit it's only the 21st.'"
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My boyfriend's coworkers/friends were complaining about getting an advance on their paychecks before Christmas (paid 1.5-2 months pay all at once). They were upset because - as we all know - that means you have to make the money last longer...
Here's the cringey bit:
Later I asked my boyfriend if that was normal for his coworkers and he said, "Yeah, before I met you I would literally put everything on my debit card and spendspendspendspendspend until it was declined. Check the date. 'Oh shit it's only the 21st.'"
I once worked with a guy who would borrow $20 bucks pay me back the next pay check, borrow $20, pay me back...
I wonder how people who work as wait staff do overall? I literally had cash in my pocket every shift, but had to keep most of it to pay rent.
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i bought a ladie's and bag at a store once for Xmas.
i did not know that some women just buy like a handbag every day.
the woman in front of me had to try 3 credit/debit cards before one was accepted
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i bought a ladie's and bag at a store once for Xmas.
i did not know that some women just buy like a handbag every day.
the woman in front of me had to try 3 credit/debit cards before one was accepted
Sometimes the card or the terminal just doesn't work correctly. I recently had to try different cards in a grocery shop before one of them worked. Nothing wrong with the coverage on them.
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Because why not owe someone $50/week instead of save $50/week to pay for a vacation? You deserve the vacation now!
Especially if you owe the $50 a week to a coworker, who probably won't have the guts to come after you if you're having hard time finding that $50 this month....
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i bought a ladie's and bag at a store once for Xmas.
i did not know that some women just buy like a handbag every day.
the woman in front of me had to try 3 credit/debit cards before one was accepted
Sometimes the card or the terminal just doesn't work correctly. I recently had to try different cards in a grocery shop before one of them worked. Nothing wrong with the coverage on them.
Yeah, my main rewards card has gotten flaky, presumably from overuse. It can take two or three tries to get the chip to work, and sometimes it has to fall back to using the mag-stripe (still an option in the US). Sometimes I'll just switch cards instead, even though the rewards aren't as good on the other card I carry.
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I just went down to HR to ask if I could change my 401k contribution on just my bonus. I have now learned that not only can I NOT change my 401k contribution for my bonus, bonuses do not contribute to the 401k at all, not even at my current selected contribution rate!!
It was suggested to me to just up my contribution rate for the next couple of regularly scheduled paychecks, when I asked what the max contribution % I was allowed was, HR had to look it up.
The main reason that I wanted to divert most of my bonus to 401k was to stop the standard 50% from being deducted for taxes. We are expecting something to happen this year that will make our tax liability basically 0 and I don't want to give the IRS an interest free loan. Even if I up my current contribution rate and decrease what is currently be withheld for taxes (already set pretty low due to expectations) there is still the fact that I am giving the IRS a pretty hefty interest free loan in March that I probably won't get paid back for 12-14 months. I am annoyed!
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]Yeah, my main rewards card has gotten flaky, presumably from overuse. It can take two or three tries to get the chip to work, and sometimes it has to fall back to using the mag-stripe (still an option in the US). Sometimes I'll just switch cards instead, even though the rewards aren't as good on the other card I carry.
Have you tried asking for a replacement? I think most card companies give you a free replacement for damaged cards every so often (e.g. at least once a year).
The alternative is to attach it to Apple/Android Pay on your smartphone, and pay contactless. Although when I last visited the US I noticed hardly any shops actually offer contactless (whereas it's ubiquitous here where I live).
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My husband had to explain to a coworker what Aldi actually was. The coworker thought it was a "about-to-expire" food discount store.
Wish we had Aldi's in Canada! I once called Maple Leaf about an old can of ham I found in a relative's cupboard and was told that it was actually good for 2 YEARS past the expiry date. So I imagine other company's products are similar. I also heard that the taste and nutritional value may be altered, but that nothing canned will ever make you sick as long as there are no dents in the tin. Now, I'm way less concerned about dates.
Nothing wrong with those either!
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]Yeah, my main rewards card has gotten flaky, presumably from overuse. It can take two or three tries to get the chip to work, and sometimes it has to fall back to using the mag-stripe (still an option in the US). Sometimes I'll just switch cards instead, even though the rewards aren't as good on the other card I carry.
Have you tried asking for a replacement? I think most card companies give you a free replacement for damaged cards every so often (e.g. at least once a year).
The alternative is to attach it to Apple/Android Pay on your smartphone, and pay contactless. Although when I last visited the US I noticed hardly any shops actually offer contactless (whereas it's ubiquitous here where I live).
The Apple/Android/Google Pay thing has gotten better as of late. I can pretty much pay for everything except gas with my phone. Which is good, because I tend to keep my credit cards locked in a drawer in my office because there is a certain person who lives in my house who don't seem to grasp the concept that you don't buy something with a card that you can't pay off immediately.
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Hold up, maybe she’s a millennial and it’s avocado toast, which is why she can’t afford a house
OT, but a friend noticed I was making avocado toast once and said, "You own a house, you're allowed."
Excellent joke! I sometimes make avo toast for my wife, a millennial. I like to jokingly ask if I'm allowed to have some given I'm GenX.
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I just went down to HR to ask if I could change my 401k contribution on just my bonus. I have now learned that not only can I NOT change my 401k contribution for my bonus, bonuses do not contribute to the 401k at all, not even at my current selected contribution rate!!
It was suggested to me to just up my contribution rate for the next couple of regularly scheduled paychecks, when I asked what the max contribution % I was allowed was, HR had to look it up.
The main reason that I wanted to divert most of my bonus to 401k was to stop the standard 50% from being deducted for taxes. We are expecting something to happen this year that will make our tax liability basically 0 and I don't want to give the IRS an interest free loan. Even if I up my current contribution rate and decrease what is currently be withheld for taxes (already set pretty low due to expectations) there is still the fact that I am giving the IRS a pretty hefty interest free loan in March that I probably won't get paid back for 12-14 months. I am annoyed!
The counterpoint to this is when 401K is applied to the bonus, and it screws up people's carefully planned out contribution rate.
If your company match is X% of salary and paid per-paycheck, then if you hit your max early you may miss out on matching payment for the last few checks of the year. So many folks will tweak their contribution % to hit the max right at the end of the year.
Then, if the bonus is equivalent to multiple paychecks, and 401K is applied to that, then you may get the standard X% of salary in match there, only to lose 2 or 3*X% in matching at the end of the year (after hitting your max 2-3 paychecks early).
If it's mid-year, then you may be able to lower your contribution % for the rest of the year, but if it's near the end of the year that might not be feasible.
[In any case, this sounds more like a candidate for the MPP thread. We now return you to your regularly scheduled workplace shame and comedy, already in progress...]
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I just went down to HR to ask if I could change my 401k contribution on just my bonus. I have now learned that not only can I NOT change my 401k contribution for my bonus, bonuses do not contribute to the 401k at all, not even at my current selected contribution rate!!
It was suggested to me to just up my contribution rate for the next couple of regularly scheduled paychecks, when I asked what the max contribution % I was allowed was, HR had to look it up.
The main reason that I wanted to divert most of my bonus to 401k was to stop the standard 50% from being deducted for taxes. We are expecting something to happen this year that will make our tax liability basically 0 and I don't want to give the IRS an interest free loan. Even if I up my current contribution rate and decrease what is currently be withheld for taxes (already set pretty low due to expectations) there is still the fact that I am giving the IRS a pretty hefty interest free loan in March that I probably won't get paid back for 12-14 months. I am annoyed!
The counterpoint to this is when 401K is applied to the bonus, and it screws up people's carefully planned out contribution rate.
If your company match is X% of salary and paid per-paycheck, then if you hit your max early you may miss out on matching payment for the last few checks of the year. So many folks will tweak their contribution % to hit the max right at the end of the year.
Then, if the bonus is equivalent to multiple paychecks, and 401K is applied to that, then you may get the standard X% of salary in match there, only to lose 2 or 3*X% in matching at the end of the year (after hitting your max 2-3 paychecks early).
If it's mid-year, then you may be able to lower your contribution % for the rest of the year, but if it's near the end of the year that might not be feasible.
[In any case, this sounds more like a candidate for the MPP thread. We now return you to your regularly scheduled workplace shame and comedy, already in progress...]
Excellent points!
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Valentine's Day is upon us...
My coworker just got this weird box of roses from a company called Venus et Fleur. She kept exclaiming that they last a year so I had to google the company to see if that was real. The roses cost FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS.
All of her coworkers keep fussing over how beautiful they are and 3 people have sent pictures to their significant others. Another woman counted how many roses there were--I'm sure so she could figure out if it was the $300 or $400 arrangement.
I had to look this up.
Basically, they are embalmed flowers (https://www.businessinsider.com/celeb-favorite-venus-et-fleur-2016-8). I have an involuntary “ew” reaction to that. 🤢
I have a negative reaction to cut flowere. Eww... severed sex organs for purely viewing pleasure..
Associations llke The Bobbits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_and_Lorena_Bobbitt come to mind.
http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2594
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I just went down to HR to ask if I could change my 401k contribution on just my bonus. I have now learned that not only can I NOT change my 401k contribution for my bonus, bonuses do not contribute to the 401k at all, not even at my current selected contribution rate!!
It was suggested to me to just up my contribution rate for the next couple of regularly scheduled paychecks, when I asked what the max contribution % I was allowed was, HR had to look it up.
The main reason that I wanted to divert most of my bonus to 401k was to stop the standard 50% from being deducted for taxes. We are expecting something to happen this year that will make our tax liability basically 0 and I don't want to give the IRS an interest free loan. Even if I up my current contribution rate and decrease what is currently be withheld for taxes (already set pretty low due to expectations) there is still the fact that I am giving the IRS a pretty hefty interest free loan in March that I probably won't get paid back for 12-14 months. I am annoyed!
@Slow&Steady Just increase the number of deductions you claim on your W-4. Tax withholding is all an estimation game anyway. Just don't undershoot your withholding by more than 9% or you'll end up owing an underpayment penalty.
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I am so grateful to my company. They make it easy (and even encourage) people to stick their entire bonuses into 401k. People front-load all the time and you don’t need to space it out over the entire year to get the full match.
But back to our regularly scheduled programming.
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Valentine's Day is upon us...
My coworker just got this weird box of roses from a company called Venus et Fleur. She kept exclaiming that they last a year so I had to google the company to see if that was real. The roses cost FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS.
All of her coworkers keep fussing over how beautiful they are and 3 people have sent pictures to their significant others. Another woman counted how many roses there were--I'm sure so she could figure out if it was the $300 or $400 arrangement.
I had to look this up.
Basically, they are embalmed flowers (https://www.businessinsider.com/celeb-favorite-venus-et-fleur-2016-8). I have an involuntary “ew” reaction to that. 🤢
I'm requesting cremated flowers at my funeral.
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Valentine's Day is upon us...
My coworker just got this weird box of roses from a company called Venus et Fleur. She kept exclaiming that they last a year so I had to google the company to see if that was real. The roses cost FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS.
All of her coworkers keep fussing over how beautiful they are and 3 people have sent pictures to their significant others. Another woman counted how many roses there were--I'm sure so she could figure out if it was the $300 or $400 arrangement.
I had to look this up.
Basically, they are embalmed flowers (https://www.businessinsider.com/celeb-favorite-venus-et-fleur-2016-8). I have an involuntary “ew” reaction to that. 🤢
I have a negative reaction to cut flowere. Eww... severed sex organs for purely viewing pleasure..
Associations llke The Bobbits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_and_Lorena_Bobbitt come to mind.
http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2594
Thanks dragoncar. I'm here for the confirmation bias, and that was awesome!
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A lady, in her late 50s/early 60s in the next row over: So how do Zero interest loans work? I think I might get one.
She's a govt employee in the DoD and not affected by the recent shutdown.
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I have a coworker who got a DUI in a crash that nearly killed him. He drives farm equipment on my family's farm for a living, and my dad is looking into what exactly the insurance company says he can and can't do and still be an insured driver. In the meantime, the basic assumption, by us, him, and everyone, is that he will likely be fired. He has known this for 4 months, and will bring it up sometimes. The house he lives in rent-free is tied to him being employed by the farm. In the last 4 moths, he started selling his Jeeps (he buys cars for less than $1500 and does work on them and drives around in them for a while before selling them). My thought: wonderful, he's building up some emergency money in case he needs to get going quickly. Then he buys a 3 year old Jeep on a 7 year loan for several hundred a month in payments, plus the increase in insurance and such. WHAT. That's such a terrible decision. He has all sorts of little side things he does for money, but seriously buying this now is a terrible idea. Gah. It hurts to watch.
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One idiot at work bought a new AMG only to sell it due to relo a little more than a year later. $55k down the drain.
Yeah, it was me.
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I feel so much better about paying $9 for a 5# bag of fancy, organic sprouted wheat flour after reading about $8 Vegemite toast!
This week, as part of a larger story, my co-worker told me her SIL and his wife are having a fight currently because she wanted to spend $200 for a custom "smash cake" for their baby's first birthday. So like, a cake nobody is even going to eat.
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I feel so much better about paying $9 for a 5# bag of fancy, organic sprouted wheat flour after reading about $8 Vegemite toast!
This week, as part of a larger story, my co-worker told me her SIL and his wife are having a fight currently because she wanted to spend $200 for a custom "smash cake" for their baby's first birthday. So like, a cake nobody is even going to eat.
What is a "smash cake"? It sounds like food that will intentionally be destroyed. Is it? If so, the correct amount to spend is zero. Buying food to intentionally destroy it is an abomination given that so many go hungry.
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I feel so much better about paying $9 for a 5# bag of fancy, organic sprouted wheat flour after reading about $8 Vegemite toast!
This week, as part of a larger story, my co-worker told me her SIL and his wife are having a fight currently because she wanted to spend $200 for a custom "smash cake" for their baby's first birthday. So like, a cake nobody is even going to eat.
What is a "smash cake"? It sounds like food that will intentionally be destroyed. Is it? If so, the correct amount to spend is zero. Buying food to intentionally destroy it is an abomination given that so many go hungry.
Exactly- adorably dressed baby sits afront giant elaborate cake and is encouraged to smash, squish and face plant into cake by adoring idiots. Expensive photographer records event for posterity.
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I feel so much better about paying $9 for a 5# bag of fancy, organic sprouted wheat flour after reading about $8 Vegemite toast!
This week, as part of a larger story, my co-worker told me her SIL and his wife are having a fight currently because she wanted to spend $200 for a custom "smash cake" for their baby's first birthday. So like, a cake nobody is even going to eat.
What is a "smash cake"? It sounds like food that will intentionally be destroyed. Is it? If so, the correct amount to spend is zero. Buying food to intentionally destroy it is an abomination given that so many go hungry.
@TheGrimSqueaker I'm sorry that you now know about this idiotic trend. I'm sure the kid gets in trouble later when it sees another cake and naturally tries to smash it.
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Millennials now repeat the smash cake thing for their 30th birthday, too.
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I feel so much better about paying $9 for a 5# bag of fancy, organic sprouted wheat flour after reading about $8 Vegemite toast!
This week, as part of a larger story, my co-worker told me her SIL and his wife are having a fight currently because she wanted to spend $200 for a custom "smash cake" for their baby's first birthday. So like, a cake nobody is even going to eat.
What is a "smash cake"? It sounds like food that will intentionally be destroyed. Is it? If so, the correct amount to spend is zero. Buying food to intentionally destroy it is an abomination given that so many go hungry.
I've seen this done with a homemade cupcake. It's just an adorable photo-op of a 1 year old trying to navigate eating a delicious messy thing. No $200 cake required.
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I feel so much better about paying $9 for a 5# bag of fancy, organic sprouted wheat flour after reading about $8 Vegemite toast!
This week, as part of a larger story, my co-worker told me her SIL and his wife are having a fight currently because she wanted to spend $200 for a custom "smash cake" for their baby's first birthday. So like, a cake nobody is even going to eat.
What is a "smash cake"? It sounds like food that will intentionally be destroyed. Is it? If so, the correct amount to spend is zero. Buying food to intentionally destroy it is an abomination given that so many go hungry.
I've seen this done with a homemade cupcake. It's just an adorable photo-op of a 1 year old trying to navigate eating a delicious messy thing. No $200 cake required.
Cupcake and genuine attempt to eat: fine. Wasteful nonsemse characterized by no attempt to eat: horrifying.
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One idiot at work bought a new AMG only to sell it due to relo a little more than a year later. $55k down the drain.
Yeah, it was me.
Thanks, I bought it! Saved me $55k!
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I feel so much better about paying $9 for a 5# bag of fancy, organic sprouted wheat flour after reading about $8 Vegemite toast!
This week, as part of a larger story, my co-worker told me her SIL and his wife are having a fight currently because she wanted to spend $200 for a custom "smash cake" for their baby's first birthday. So like, a cake nobody is even going to eat.
What is a "smash cake"? It sounds like food that will intentionally be destroyed. Is it? If so, the correct amount to spend is zero. Buying food to intentionally destroy it is an abomination given that so many go hungry.
I've seen this done with a homemade cupcake. It's just an adorable photo-op of a 1 year old trying to navigate eating a delicious messy thing. No $200 cake required.
Cupcake and genuine attempt to eat: fine. Wasteful nonsemse characterized by no attempt to eat: horrifying.
(https://i.imgur.com/BKLCImO.gif?1)
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I feel so much better about paying $9 for a 5# bag of fancy, organic sprouted wheat flour after reading about $8 Vegemite toast!
This week, as part of a larger story, my co-worker told me her SIL and his wife are having a fight currently because she wanted to spend $200 for a custom "smash cake" for their baby's first birthday. So like, a cake nobody is even going to eat.
What is a "smash cake"? It sounds like food that will intentionally be destroyed. Is it? If so, the correct amount to spend is zero. Buying food to intentionally destroy it is an abomination given that so many go hungry.
I've seen this done with a homemade cupcake. It's just an adorable photo-op of a 1 year old trying to navigate eating a delicious messy thing. No $200 cake required.
Cupcake and genuine attempt to eat: fine. Wasteful nonsemse characterized by no attempt to eat: horrifying.
I've seen a number of cake smash birthdays for teeny weenies. It's actually pretty cool. You stick this entire cake in front of a wee one, whose little eyes bug out and little hands take whole fist fulls and stuff their mouths. The look on their faces when they realise it's for them is hilarious. To be fair, no one I know would spend $200 on a cake for this purpose. I've put together a few smash cakes - low sugar plain sponge, plain whipped cream filling and decorated with cream and organic colouring, fruit, perhaps some marshmallows. You don't really want a 1 year old eating the amount of sugar and crap in an adult cake. Pretty sure the last one I made cost about $10, max. The last one year old bday I went to descended into a bunch of happy babies on the lawn covering themselves and each other in cream and cake, while giggling grown ups took photos. Best birthday party ever!
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I feel so much better about paying $9 for a 5# bag of fancy, organic sprouted wheat flour after reading about $8 Vegemite toast!
This week, as part of a larger story, my co-worker told me her SIL and his wife are having a fight currently because she wanted to spend $200 for a custom "smash cake" for their baby's first birthday. So like, a cake nobody is even going to eat.
What is a "smash cake"? It sounds like food that will intentionally be destroyed. Is it? If so, the correct amount to spend is zero. Buying food to intentionally destroy it is an abomination given that so many go hungry.
I've seen this done with a homemade cupcake. It's just an adorable photo-op of a 1 year old trying to navigate eating a delicious messy thing. No $200 cake required.
Cupcake and genuine attempt to eat: fine. Wasteful nonsemse characterized by no attempt to eat: horrifying.
I've seen a number of cake smash birthdays for teeny weenies. It's actually pretty cool. You stick this entire cake in front of a wee one, whose little eyes bug out and little hands take whole fist fulls and stuff their mouths. The look on their faces when they realise it's for them is hilarious. To be fair, no one I know would spend $200 on a cake for this purpose. I've put together a few smash cakes - low sugar plain sponge, plain whipped cream filling and decorated with cream and organic colouring, fruit, perhaps some marshmallows. You don't really want a 1 year old eating the amount of sugar and crap in an adult cake. Pretty sure the last one I made cost about $10, max. The last one year old bday I went to descended into a bunch of happy babies on the lawn covering themselves and each other in cream and cake, while giggling grown ups took photos. Best birthday party ever!
Publix offers a free smash cake when you order a regular cake for a first birthday. It is a tiny cake made just for the baby. My girls had them for their first birthdays, and it was cute to watch them taste cake for the first time. They were a mess! I definitely wouldn't pay $200 for a smash cake though.
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Made my kids smash cakes for their first birthdays, but I'm absolutely willing to eat food my kids have touched and haven't finished, so the actual amount of food wasted was maybe slightly above an average meal for a 1 year old.
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Made my kids smash cakes for their first birthdays, but I'm absolutely willing to eat food my kids have touched and haven't finished, so the actual amount of food wasted was maybe slightly above an average meal for a 1 year old.
Yeah, wash their hands, sit them in their high chair, and eat some smooshed cake once they’re done exploring it. A $200 cake had better be for a wedding!!!
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My husband had to explain to a coworker what Aldi actually was. The coworker thought it was a "about-to-expire" food discount store.
Nothing wrong with those either!
+1 I eat BETTER when I shop at a discount store. All sorts of fancy stuff I might not usually buy, that cost less than the price of the regular stuff. The store I go to also has a policy that if there's something wrong with the food I can get a refund. So far nothing has been wrong with anything I bought which is great, but it's good to know that I'm covered if that ever happens.
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Then he buys a 3 year old Jeep on a 7 year loan for several hundred a month in payments, plus the increase in insurance and such. WHAT.
Maybe I'm cynical, but my first thought was that it could that be a ploy to keep from being fired? As in, they wouldn't be so heartless as to let me go, now that I have this huge monthly expense?
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Some colleagues were drinking coffee together when I arrived at work and switched shoes.
Co-worker 1 (who drives a similar 8 year old Subaru as I do): <mumbles something I cannot hear>
Co-worker 2 (very interested in cars) to co-worker 1: So now you afford new rims for the car. No excuse anymore!
I guess that co-worker 1 had gotten a financial benefit of some kind.
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Some colleagues were drinking coffee together when I arrived at work and switched shoes.
Co-worker 1 (who drives a similar 8 year old Subaru as I do): <mumbles something I cannot hear>
Co-worker 2 (very interested in cars) to co-worker 1: So now you afford new rims for the car. No excuse anymore!
I guess that co-worker 1 had gotten a financial benefit of some kind.
Hey check out this fat cat with more than one pair of shoes
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Young employee, metro area, commutes 1 hr+. Wore out their old car. Needs another car to make commute. Can't afford another car. Waiting to see what they choose to do. Hopefully something smart like some sort of cash car and save hard for something better in a year. I offered my suggestion gently.
There are benefits to short commutes, bicycle commutes, etc.
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I just went down to HR to ask if I could change my 401k contribution on just my bonus. I have now learned that not only can I NOT change my 401k contribution for my bonus, bonuses do not contribute to the 401k at all, not even at my current selected contribution rate!!
It was suggested to me to just up my contribution rate for the next couple of regularly scheduled paychecks, when I asked what the max contribution % I was allowed was, HR had to look it up.
The main reason that I wanted to divert most of my bonus to 401k was to stop the standard 50% from being deducted for taxes. We are expecting something to happen this year that will make our tax liability basically 0 and I don't want to give the IRS an interest free loan. Even if I up my current contribution rate and decrease what is currently be withheld for taxes (already set pretty low due to expectations) there is still the fact that I am giving the IRS a pretty hefty interest free loan in March that I probably won't get paid back for 12-14 months. I am annoyed!
Sorry if this has been answered. You have two options: change the number of exemptions, or fill out the necessary paperwork to declare yourself exempt from taxation for X amount of time. Just be sure to reset as needed. In my working days, I was on full commission, so even with 10 exemptions (Is this the correct term? Hope so), I got a shitload of money back. On my CPA's advice, i just let it run until I had had as much withheld as I owed the previous year. Then I shut off the tap. Worked great, though HR didn't like it (tough shit). I just used the same letter with a new date every year.
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Made my kids smash cakes for their first birthdays, but I'm absolutely willing to eat food my kids have touched and haven't finished, so the actual amount of food wasted was maybe slightly above an average meal for a 1 year old.
Yeah, wash their hands, sit them in their high chair, and eat some smooshed cake once they’re done exploring it. A $200 cake had better be for a wedding!!!
Having now done three birthday cakes, I can understand why those cakes you see on Pinterest cost $300+. The last one I did for my son took 3 days and probably cost $40 in ingredients by the time I made and tinted 6 different shades of marshmallow fondant. I've had people ask if I sell them, but once every other year is enough for me.
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I feel so much better about paying $9 for a 5# bag of fancy, organic sprouted wheat flour after reading about $8 Vegemite toast!
This week, as part of a larger story, my co-worker told me her SIL and his wife are having a fight currently because she wanted to spend $200 for a custom "smash cake" for their baby's first birthday. So like, a cake nobody is even going to eat.
What is a "smash cake"? It sounds like food that will intentionally be destroyed. Is it? If so, the correct amount to spend is zero. Buying food to intentionally destroy it is an abomination given that so many go hungry.
I've seen this done with a homemade cupcake. It's just an adorable photo-op of a 1 year old trying to navigate eating a delicious messy thing. No $200 cake required.
Cupcake and genuine attempt to eat: fine. Wasteful nonsemse characterized by no attempt to eat: horrifying.
I've seen a number of cake smash birthdays for teeny weenies. It's actually pretty cool. You stick this entire cake in front of a wee one, whose little eyes bug out and little hands take whole fist fulls and stuff their mouths. The look on their faces when they realise it's for them is hilarious. To be fair, no one I know would spend $200 on a cake for this purpose. I've put together a few smash cakes - low sugar plain sponge, plain whipped cream filling and decorated with cream and organic colouring, fruit, perhaps some marshmallows. You don't really want a 1 year old eating the amount of sugar and crap in an adult cake. Pretty sure the last one I made cost about $10, max. The last one year old bday I went to descended into a bunch of happy babies on the lawn covering themselves and each other in cream and cake, while giggling grown ups took photos. Best birthday party ever!
Publix offers a free smash cake when you order a regular cake for a first birthday. It is a tiny cake made just for the baby. My girls had them for their first birthdays, and it was cute to watch them taste cake for the first time. They were a mess! I definitely wouldn't pay $200 for a smash cake though.
Was just about to say this, you beat me to it.
813 represent!
ALso, if you order a bunch of cupcakes instead of a sheet cake for 1st birthday, they'll bunch together a couple of cupcakes in a separate box for baby smashing.
It's fun to watch, it's not expensive if family and friends get into paparazzi mode with their smartphones and DSLRs. Upload all photos and videos to Google Photos or some cloud shared drive.
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Some colleagues were drinking coffee together when I arrived at work and switched shoes.
Co-worker 1 (who drives a similar 8 year old Subaru as I do): <mumbles something I cannot hear>
Co-worker 2 (very interested in cars) to co-worker 1: So now you afford new rims for the car. No excuse anymore!
I guess that co-worker 1 had gotten a financial benefit of some kind.
Hey check out this fat cat with more than one pair of shoes
This made me giggle.
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But on-topic - coworkers were discussing budgeting with the usual "I-can't"-isms, and one of them cited among reasons budgets didn't apply well to their situation was that they keep having changes in their circumstances that throw off their planning: a promotion, a raise... how does MORE income throw off a budget?
Well DUH! A person has to spend all of it. Can't leave any money in the bank account at the end of the month. It gets stale like bread.
Nope. It goes bad like milk. Too bad they don't turn it into tasty cheese.
Fun fact: Cheddar isn't naturally yellow. They add a food coloring so it will be more visible in case of an airplane crash.
Made me literally LOL. Reference appreciated.
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Manager at work is pushing to get everyone AWS certified. The exam costs about $140, and if you pass, you get a full reimbursement. I've signed up for the exam and a couple of other coworkers are joining me.
Of course, neither of them can sign up for the exam just yet - need to wait for next pay, you see. One of these coworkers only started work six weeks ago, so...okay, fair enough. We're not expecting everyone to be Mustachians, here. But the other's been there for seven months. You make six figures, dude. We all do. How do you not have 140 bucks to spare a week before payday?
Next day, 7-month guy comes in with a $10 bagel for lunch, while I just sit there, eat my meal-prepped spag bol, and try not to have an aneurysm.
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But on-topic - coworkers were discussing budgeting with the usual "I-can't"-isms, and one of them cited among reasons budgets didn't apply well to their situation was that they keep having changes in their circumstances that throw off their planning: a promotion, a raise... how does MORE income throw off a budget?
Well DUH! A person has to spend all of it. Can't leave any money in the bank account at the end of the month. It gets stale like bread.
Nope. It goes bad like milk. Too bad they don't turn it into tasty cheese.
Fun fact: Cheddar isn't naturally yellow. They add a food coloring so it will be more visible in case of an airplane crash.
Made me literally LOL. Reference appreciated.
It's a special cheddar. Creates orange foam on contact with ocean water. Hi Viz Cheddar.
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But does it change to blue under certain conditions like high altitude dress shops?
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Millennials now repeat the smash cake thing for their 30th birthday, too.
*Gasp*
We do not! This is the first time this millennial has heard of it!
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Millennials now repeat the smash cake thing for their 30th birthday, too.
*Gasp*
We do not! This is the first time this millennial has heard of it!
Okay that's actually hilarious. -a millennial.
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I hadn’t heard of the expression “smash cake” before and I have two littles at home.
Signed: An Old Millenial
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Totally a thing where I live. My kids are now 14 and 16 and both went to many parties while little where the 1 year old had a smash cake. The tradition still continues...
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Totally a thing where I live. My kids are now 14 and 16 and both went to many parties while little where the 1 year old had a smash cake. The tradition still continues...
Is this a first child thing or for all the children?
I ask, because anyone who has been around children knows they can make a big enough mess with a cupcake.
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Millennials now repeat the smash cake thing for their 30th birthday, too.
*Gasp*
We do not! This is the first time this millennial has heard of it!
I'm going to totally do it for my 50th birthday. And still eat it all.
If I don't forget, of course. ;)
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Manager at work is pushing to get everyone AWS certified. The exam costs about $140, and if you pass, you get a full reimbursement. I've signed up for the exam and a couple of other coworkers are joining me.
Of course, neither of them can sign up for the exam just yet - need to wait for next pay, you see. One of these coworkers only started work six weeks ago, so...okay, fair enough. We're not expecting everyone to be Mustachians, here. But the other's been there for seven months. You make six figures, dude. We all do. How do you not have 140 bucks to spare a week before payday?
Next day, 7-month guy comes in with a $10 bagel for lunch, while I just sit there, eat my meal-prepped spag bol, and try not to have an aneurysm.
Good first post. It's kind of hard to NOT have $140 when you make 6 figures. WTF.
Smash cake person has her ailing FIL driving all the way across town on a daily basis in his giant truck to walk her dog, because it is apparently annoying her when she's feeding baby, and she won't hire a dog walker or take it to doggy daycare.
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One co-works explaining to another that leasing a car is better than buying one.
Co-worker1 -I am looking at buy this new car.
Co-worker2 -Why make payments for 96 months on a car when you can lease it and get a new one every four years?
Co-worker1 -Yeah you are right 96 months is like 8 years the car will be too old by then.
Co-worker2 -Your payments will be the same and cars last four years with almost everything covered by warrantee. Getting a new one every four years makes economical sense.
Me- Biting my tongue and not saying anything......(in my head) WTF! a 8 year car loan...just buy a used car for cash!
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I hadn’t heard of the expression “smash cake” before and I have two littles at home.
Signed: An Old Millenial
I didn't know what it was either, and was a bit cautious of the word "smash". And indeed, the baby is supposed to smash it's face in the cake...
https://www.angesdesucre.com/blogs/anges-de-sucre/is-cake-smashing-the-dumbest-cake-trend-ever
I guess the parents need to order an additional cake to serve the guests who come to celebrate the baby's first birthday.
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We had a smash cake. I made it. The icing melted off before he got to it. Which is just as well because he hated getting his hands dirty at that time.
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Manager at work is pushing to get everyone AWS certified. The exam costs about $140, and if you pass, you get a full reimbursement. I've signed up for the exam and a couple of other coworkers are joining me.
Of course, neither of them can sign up for the exam just yet - need to wait for next pay, you see. One of these coworkers only started work six weeks ago, so...okay, fair enough. We're not expecting everyone to be Mustachians, here. But the other's been there for seven months. You make six figures, dude. We all do. How do you not have 140 bucks to spare a week before payday?
Next day, 7-month guy comes in with a $10 bagel for lunch, while I just sit there, eat my meal-prepped spag bol, and try not to have an aneurysm.
Good first post. It's kind of hard to NOT have $140 when you make 6 figures. WTF.
Smash cake person has her ailing FIL driving all the way across town on a daily basis in his giant truck to walk her dog, because it is apparently annoying her when she's feeding baby, and she won't hire a dog walker or take it to doggy daycare.
Besides the MMW-WTF, can't he/she just pay on a card and would get reimbursed by the time the card is due?
But yea, it really has to be hard to make/spend that much to be living pay check to pay check. With that much spending, you think it would just collapse quicker.
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Manager at work is pushing to get everyone AWS certified. The exam costs about $140, and if you pass, you get a full reimbursement. I've signed up for the exam and a couple of other coworkers are joining me.
Of course, neither of them can sign up for the exam just yet - need to wait for next pay, you see. One of these coworkers only started work six weeks ago, so...okay, fair enough. We're not expecting everyone to be Mustachians, here. But the other's been there for seven months. You make six figures, dude. We all do. How do you not have 140 bucks to spare a week before payday?
Next day, 7-month guy comes in with a $10 bagel for lunch, while I just sit there, eat my meal-prepped spag bol, and try not to have an aneurysm.
Good first post. It's kind of hard to NOT have $140 when you make 6 figures. WTF.
Smash cake person has her ailing FIL driving all the way across town on a daily basis in his giant truck to walk her dog, because it is apparently annoying her when she's feeding baby, and she won't hire a dog walker or take it to doggy daycare.
Besides the MMW-WTF, can't he/she just pay on a card and would get reimbursed by the time the card is due?
But yea, it really has to be hard to make/spend that much to be living pay check to pay check. With that much spending, you think it would just collapse quicker.
I have a couple of AWS associate certs. It cost me $10-15 for each Udemy/ACloudGuru course, $20 in Whizlabs practice tests, and $150 for the exam. I charged the exam time to my company, and was reimbursed for training and test expenses. We get a $5k annual training allowance per employee, so everything comes from that pot. Even AWS conferences/summits/local events. Or if you're on an Azure-related assignment, then the same applies to attend Microsoft Ignite.
Right now I have a company-paid annual subscription to Linux Academy to help me prepare for an AWS pro exam.
I've turned down corporate recruiters (I don't deal with the 3rd party staffing firms) if there's no training budget. If they claim it is, I make sure it is written into the employment contract. If they balk at this, I gracefully exit the call.
Everything I learn directly impacts the customer's success and in turn my employer's. It's a win-win-win.
At some point, how much the employer is willing to pay is not the main factor. It's the work and the training and camaraderie that matters. I've turned down offers for 10k+ more just for these reasons.
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A colleague is moving house soon.
She asked me if I thought she should buy plastic tubs ($8 each) because "they're almost the same price as buying moving boxes" ($4 each).
1. $8 is not "almost the same price" as $4.
2. Paying for plastic tubs or paying for new cardboard boxes are not the only two options. I suggested she could buy second-hand boxes from a moving company, or look online for freebies. I even found a set of 50 moving boxes for free less than 20km from her place. She said it would cost too much in fuel.
I looked at a moving house calculator online. For her size house and level of stuff, it estimated 140 boxes. That would be $1120 worth of plastic tubs.
I just mentioned that we have a heap of spare bubble wrap, packing peanuts, newspaper, etc, in the office if she's interested. "Nah, I'll just buy bubble wrap and butcher paper."
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Seems like her mind is already made up and she really isn't worrying about the cost of fuel.
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Seems like her mind is already made up and she really isn't worrying about the cost of fuel.
Exactly. She wasn't asking for my opinion; she just wanted me to agree with her.
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A colleague is moving house soon.
She asked me if I thought she should buy plastic tubs ($8 each) because "they're almost the same price as buying moving boxes" ($4 each).
1. $8 is not "almost the same price" as $4.
2. Paying for plastic tubs or paying for new cardboard boxes are not the only two options. I suggested she could buy second-hand boxes from a moving company, or look online for freebies. I even found a set of 50 moving boxes for free less than 20km from her place. She said it would cost too much in fuel.
I looked at a moving house calculator online. For her size house and level of stuff, it estimated 140 boxes. That would be $1120 worth of plastic tubs.
I just mentioned that we have a heap of spare bubble wrap, packing peanuts, newspaper, etc, in the office if she's interested. "Nah, I'll just buy bubble wrap and butcher paper."
The last 2 times I moved, I got boxes for free, from work or from a neighbour. The first time I bought a pile of el cheapo boxes that were a good bargain.
One issue to consider nowadays with moving boxes, even official ones, are grey silverfish (Ctenolepisma longicaudata). In Norway many houses are now affected with these critters and they come in with carton boxes. They are difficult, if not impossible to remove from your house and your house might not be equally attractive for new buyers.
Some plastic crates can come in super handy, if you want to use them for storage later. We use those boxes for tools, camping gear and some other stuff. But not 140 of them.
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Last time we moved we slowly collected cardboard moving boxes from our work. I even asked the janitor who was happy to hand some off to me. Those boxes are nicer than the ones you can buy because they have a nice closing design on the top. The best thing is that my husband packaged them up ten at a time and made a little $ after the move selling then on Craigslist!
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A colleague is moving house soon.
She asked me if I thought she should buy plastic tubs ($8 each) because "they're almost the same price as buying moving boxes" ($4 each).
1. $8 is not "almost the same price" as $4.
2. Paying for plastic tubs or paying for new cardboard boxes are not the only two options. I suggested she could buy second-hand boxes from a moving company, or look online for freebies. I even found a set of 50 moving boxes for free less than 20km from her place. She said it would cost too much in fuel.
I looked at a moving house calculator online. For her size house and level of stuff, it estimated 140 boxes. That would be $1120 worth of plastic tubs.
I just mentioned that we have a heap of spare bubble wrap, packing peanuts, newspaper, etc, in the office if she's interested. "Nah, I'll just buy bubble wrap and butcher paper."
The last 2 times I moved, I got boxes for free, from work or from a neighbour. The first time I bought a pile of el cheapo boxes that were a good bargain.
One issue to consider nowadays with moving boxes, even official ones, are grey silverfish (Ctenolepisma longicaudata). In Norway many houses are now affected with these critters and they come in with carton boxes. They are difficult, if not impossible to remove from your house and your house might not be equally attractive for new buyers.
Some plastic crates can come in super handy, if you want to use them for storage later. We use those boxes for tools, camping gear and some other stuff. But not 140 of them.
I'll take silverfish over bedbugs any day.
I don't use anything second-hand that I can't sterilize.
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Seems like her mind is already made up and she really isn't worrying about the cost of fuel.
Exactly. She wasn't asking for my opinion; she just wanted me to agree with her.
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HUD, if your dad is older he may watch more tv. We never had it when raising the kids but have it now in our 60’s. We watch tv more than we used to when working. We pay 200 for cable, internet and house phone. If we let the house phone go it’s more expensive.
Get a firestick and learn how to load some Apps on it. (use youtube videos)
Apps aften called APKs on the android (Firestick like boxes.)
You will get way more stations than you get on cable.
I pay $45 for my internet (60Mbs) and have three Apps.
These three are plenty for us, Mobdro, Cyberflix and PlutoTV,
oh, also have Amazon Prime but only use it occasionally.
It's a different style of watching, you need to pick what you watch, not just flip channels.
You'd save $1,800 a year to spend on other things.
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HUD, if your dad is older he may watch more tv. We never had it when raising the kids but have it now in our 60’s. We watch tv more than we used to when working. We pay 200 for cable, internet and house phone. If we let the house phone go it’s more expensive.
Get a firestick and learn how to load some Apps on it. (use youtube videos)
Apps aften called APKs on the android (Firestick like boxes.)
You will get way more stations than you get on cable.
I pay $45 for my internet (60Mbs) and have three Apps.
These three are plenty for us, Mobdro, Cyberflix and PlutoTV,
oh, also have Amazon Prime but only use it occasionally.
It's a different style of watching, you need to pick what you watch, not just flip channels.
You'd save $1,800 a year to spend on other things.
I've been considering PlutoTV. How do you like it?
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One of my employees... No rent, although I think he recently started paying the electric bill. No transportation costs. He lives less than two blocks from work, so he walks. Still spends every penny he makes, usually on electronics and fast food. Makes me sad. At some point his benefactor will pass away and I'm not sure how he'll survive.
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... Mobdro, Cyberflix and PlutoTV ...
Would love to hear more about these. Are they free? Where does the content come from? What kind of content is available? Is it legal? Do I need a VPN? Is there a primer somewhere?
Maybe we could start a new thread.
+1
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But then she starts telling us about her extended warranty, gap coverage, and how her payments are only $455 a month.
Getting old must throw off a persons frame of reference.
My first mortgage was $336 a month with a mortgage interest rate of
13.75%, including taxes, insurance, and PMI.
Ya, sorry about the PMI, but not really, I got layed off exactly one month
after the closing, glad I didn't use all my savings on the down payment.
No, I didn't see the layoff coming.
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Two co-workers were discussing car woes. Both drive cars that are 9 years old. CW1 is thinking about a new car because her spouse bought a (new to them) car and she wants something newer now too. CW2 has a car that over the last few months has been costing a lot of work. I'm sitting at the same table with them at lunch and I have worked with them for years for context as to why I butted into their conversation.
CW1: Did you get your car back [from the mechanic]?
CW2: yes. It's running fine now. But I'm still looking for a new car. I've averaged out our spending over the last 6 months to about $200 per month. That's basically a car payment!
CW1: Yes. I have been looking too. It's not fair that [spouse] drives around in a such a nicer car than mine.
CW2: Cars are so expensive to maintain though. I'm thinking about leasing this time.
CW1: Yeah, I like the peace of mind from a lease.
Me: Leasing is almost never fiscally smart in the long run. Really run those numbers, especially since you have 90+ mile daily commute (roundtrip for CW2). I'd imagine those miles would add up fast.
CW2: Probably, but those miles would be a lot more fun in a brand new car!
CW1: I agree. Can you send me any information you find? I need to convince [spouse]!
While certainly not to this board's standards, I would generally have considered both of these co-workers reasonably fiscally responsible. They drove older cars and usually bring their lunches from home... I hope that research will also telling them leasing is a bad idea, but I got the sense they were looking for information to support a decision already made.
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'Cause if one spouse gets a newer car, the other one needs to as well for twice the debt.
At least stagger the payments. Pay off one before buying the second one. 90 miles - wow.
The mental gymnastics required to justify choices like this is always entertaining. We did that once too.
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Couples who debt together stay together!
Wait....
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It's a different style of watching, you need to pick what you watch, not just flip channels.
Makes me wonder how much time people waste flipping channels. I prefer to pick the TV series/film/documentary I want to watch.
Go to Prime Video's main screen, select category, select show. Select to play in 4k or HDR if possible, as long as it doesn't cost extra.
No more of the "hey let's see what's on TV today" or looking through TV Guides (on your cable box or online).
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CW1: Yes. I have been looking too. It's not fair that [spouse] drives around in a such a nicer car than mine...
And here I am working on my DW trying to get us down to one car between us.
If I sell my car she has threatened to retaliate by not allowing me to use the remaining car (which is hers) for any reason. This would obviously make the proposition impractical. So once my car dies, I just won't replace it. It seems easier, in my thinking, for her to admonish me for selling my car than for not buying a new one. The former is actively aggressive while the latter is passively aggressive.
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When your car dies replace it with a $1500 wonder. Financially it will like not having a car at all. We have one. Cheap to maintain, presentable, reliable, etc. Just not a popular brand or model. We rarely need a second car but it happens. We drive the cheap one and save the nice one.
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$1500 wonder
What is a wonder?
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$1500 wonder
What is a wonder?
Sliced bread
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(http://spencer1984.com/review/image/r067a.jpg)
I don't think this car is the "$1500 Wonder" Just Joe was talking about.
I don't think it can be bought for $1500, also not cheap to maintain I am sure the insurance would be really high too!
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$1500 wonder
What is a wonder?
Sliced bread
In all fairness, bad sliced bread
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When your car dies replace it with a $1500 wonder. Financially it will like not having a car at all. We have one. Cheap to maintain, presentable, reliable, etc. Just not a popular brand or model. We rarely need a second car but it happens. We drive the cheap one and save the nice one.
Well, I admit, that is another reason my wife is winning the argument. My car is a paid-off, older Matrix with paint peeling off the doors. I wanted to sell it to pay down debt. But if you have to keep a car, this is the one.
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Give it a paint job. Take it to a community college that teaches autobody. See if they can do a cheap paintjob. You'll prob need to buy the materials. Look for single stage urethane paint. Its the kind of paint that is put on commercial vehicles. Tough, simple and more affordable. I've used it with good results.
Maybe your other half will be more enthusiastic about it b/c it is shiny and tidy. Keep it forever. Or "accidentally" sell it. A paint job might raise the resale value to a point where it really makes sense to sell it in favor of a scooter or ebike and money into your investment accounts.
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We have a $1,500 wonder as our second car. A 2000 Dodge Caravan. It has a few dents, scratches and stains but it runs like a champ and we wouldn't hesitate driving it across the country on a moment's notice.
I like to say "It is worth more than it is worth."
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That's a great way to define vehicles like that! I like unpopular vehicles. Low resale value but good utility for a long time. Who cares if its resale value at the end of a decade is a little less than a deluxe pizza?
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My coworker is considering starting a side-hustle/entrepreneurship option. So what's she considering? Right, buying $1200 worth of top-of-the-notch equipment that she doesn't really need for something she's barely thought about yet.
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My coworker is considering starting a side-hustle/entrepreneurship option. So what's she considering? Right, buying $1200 worth of top-of-the-notch equipment that she doesn't really need for something she's barely thought about yet.
it's easier than doing the work or asking the hard questions
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While I was talking with one co-worker about something else (he wanting to buy a house), the others around the lunch table were talking about pensions. We just switched to another pension system, so pensions have gotten some attention lately. One very new co-worker is a lot older than me, I think halfway his 50-ies. I heard him say that he never before bothered to think about his pension. He thought that from now on, maybe he should look into it. I also heard with half an ear that some people talked about pension: I don't see the point of putting aside money for when I'm old. I'd rather use it now.
At least I have one sensible co-worker. She worked in the USA for a couple of years. She mentioned that the has both a 401 and a Roth and said she couldn't touch it without penalties until a certain age. Than she needs to transfer the money to Norway while the dollar course is high (preferably).
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At least I have one sensible co-worker. She worked in the USA for a couple of years. She mentioned that the has both a 401 and a Roth and said she couldn't touch it without penalties until a certain age.
Not completely accurate. Have her google SEPP and 401K to learn how to get the money out of the 401k earlier without penalties.
Not sure about the Roth details, but I know that some of the Roth money can be removed without penalty.
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At least I have one sensible co-worker. She worked in the USA for a couple of years. She mentioned that the has both a 401 and a Roth and said she couldn't touch it without penalties until a certain age.
Not completely accurate. Have her google SEPP and 401K to learn how to get the money out of the 401k earlier without penalties.
Not sure about the Roth details, but I know that some of the Roth money can be removed without penalty.
I mentioned her to google "Roth backdoor" that is often mentioned on this forum. But I'll tell her to google SEPP as well.
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While I was talking with one co-worker about something else (he wanting to buy a house), the others around the lunch table were talking about pensions. We just switched to another pension system, so pensions have gotten some attention lately. One very new co-worker is a lot older than me, I think halfway his 50-ies. I heard him say that he never before bothered to think about his pension. He thought that from now on, maybe he should look into it. I also heard with half an ear that some people talked about pension: I don't see the point of putting aside money for when I'm old. I'd rather use it now.
At least I have one sensible co-worker. She worked in the USA for a couple of years. She mentioned that the has both a 401 and a Roth and said she couldn't touch it without penalties until a certain age. Than she needs to transfer the money to Norway while the dollar course is high (preferably).
I know how old age in the USA with no savings goes (a person works a job until they can't). How does old age work in Norway without savings?
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While I was talking with one co-worker about something else (he wanting to buy a house), the others around the lunch table were talking about pensions. We just switched to another pension system, so pensions have gotten some attention lately. One very new co-worker is a lot older than me, I think halfway his 50-ies. I heard him say that he never before bothered to think about his pension. He thought that from now on, maybe he should look into it. I also heard with half an ear that some people talked about pension: I don't see the point of putting aside money for when I'm old. I'd rather use it now.
At least I have one sensible co-worker. She worked in the USA for a couple of years. She mentioned that the has both a 401 and a Roth and said she couldn't touch it without penalties until a certain age. Than she needs to transfer the money to Norway while the dollar course is high (preferably).
I know how old age in the USA with no savings goes (a person works a job until they can't). How does old age work in Norway without savings?
The minimum state pension (for those who have no, or very low work history) is about $16k/year from age 67. Medical is of course covered, and there is housing assistance and other help available. Life is not luxurious for those with minimum pensions, but they don’t starve. When it is time to move into a home, you pay based on what you can afford. There are very few private care facilities that I know of. Most people use the public ones, regardless of their financial state. No one saves up for that time, or pays for care insurance.
If you have worked 20-30 years, the state pension is enough to live a MMM lifestyle quite comfortably. In addition, both public and private employers are mandated to provide pension savings for their employees.
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At least I have one sensible co-worker. She worked in the USA for a couple of years. She mentioned that the has both a 401 and a Roth and said she couldn't touch it without penalties until a certain age. Than she needs to transfer the money to Norway while the dollar course is high (preferably).
Tell your coworker to read the Norway-USA double tax agreement. They may be surprised... (Specifically: the US can't tax it.)
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This one wasn't really overheard, but happened to me directly.
I had a minor issue with my pay cheque where some extra funds were deducted off on 3 pays, $46 per pay. We were notified in advance, by about 2 weeks this was going to happen, my issue wasn't with the amount (some minor budget issues), but the fact that HR KNEW this would happen for almost a year, and didn't tell anyone until 2 weeks before. Here is the conversation I had with them:
Me "Hi HR. I just received notice about these deductions that are going to come off my next 3 pays, it's not really a big deal, but I would have liked to receive more notice so I could have set some money aside to cover this."
HR: "Oh, that would not of been possible, the deductions had to come off of these particular pay cheques, there is no other way for us to do this."
Me: "Yes, but I could have set the $150 aside months ago, had I known, and then just transferred $46 that I saved into my account when I get paid, and it would be like I was getting my normal pay cheque."
HR: *8 seconds of silence while his mind was exploding processing that* "Yeah, I guess you could have done that."
Me: "If you could just pass that along for next time, that would be great. Thanks."
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This one wasn't really overheard, but happened to me directly.
I had a minor issue with my pay cheque where some extra funds were deducted off on 3 pays, $46 per pay. We were notified in advance, by about 2 weeks this was going to happen, my issue wasn't with the amount (some minor budget issues), but the fact that HR KNEW this would happen for almost a year, and didn't tell anyone until 2 weeks before. Here is the conversation I had with them:
Me "Hi HR. I just received notice about these deductions that are going to come off my next 3 pays, it's not really a big deal, but I would have liked to receive more notice so I could have set some money aside to cover this."
HR: "Oh, that would not of been possible, the deductions had to come off of these particular pay cheques, there is no other way for us to do this."
Me: "Yes, but I could have set the $150 aside months ago, had I known, and then just transferred $46 that I saved into my account when I get paid, and it would be like I was getting my normal pay cheque."
HR: *8 seconds of silence while his mind was exploding processing that* "Yeah, I guess you could have done that."
Me: "If you could just pass that along for next time, that would be great. Thanks."
If anyone with authority has had to do something similar before, there was probably a conscious decision to make the announcement at a time that allowed for minimal bitching and freaking out for HR to deal with.
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Couldn't get over a co-workers reaction recently when I said I rarely spend money:
CW: "So what, you save all your money????"
Didn't have the heart to tell her that my savings rate is in the 80% - 90% range.
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Couldn't get over a co-workers reaction recently when I said I rarely spend money:
CW: "So what, you save all your money????"
Didn't have the heart to tell her that my savings rate is in the 80% - 90% range.
People think the concept of delayed gratification is strange.
I once mention at work that we saved a lot, like 70% of our income last year. A co-worker who heard it said that in that case, I must have really low expenses. He himself has a mortgage and ows a small airplane (flying is his passion). I don't have any of these, so yes.
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To a normal person, saving 2/3 of your income must seem cartoonish.
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To a normal person, saving 2/3 of your income must seem cartoonish.
It totally does. I'm MMM-lite - save about 40% - and even that blows people's minds.
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No joke, I think of myself has half-ass, not bad-ass.
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No joke, I think of myself has half-ass, not bad-ass.
Same here. We save about 35%, which feels downright depressing. We should be able to jack that up to 50% when our kids are all in school and daycare expenses go away.
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No joke, I think of myself has half-ass, not bad-ass.
Given we're around 50% of income going to student loan repayment, ditto. Members on the forms in the 70+% to me are the amazing ones. However, according to normal people I'm sure they would think I was crazy if they saw our budget.
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No joke, I think of myself has half-ass, not bad-ass.
Same here. We save about 35%, which feels downright depressing. We should be able to jack that up to 50% when our kids are all in school and daycare expenses go away.
I hate to burst your bubble, but after school and summer care have been almost as expensive as daycare.
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To a normal person, saving 2/3 of your income must seem cartoonish.
It totally does. I'm MMM-lite - save about 40% - and even that blows people's minds.
I like that expression: MMM-lite. I'm frequently confused because I'm the most intense saver of anyone I know at about 40% of net income, but then I still do some (carefully considered and planned) spendypants things that I would be embarrassed to admit here. (Maybe I'm clown-lite too?)
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No joke, I think of myself has half-ass, not bad-ass.
Same here. We save about 35%, which feels downright depressing. We should be able to jack that up to 50% when our kids are all in school and daycare expenses go away.
Those daycare costs really bite, don't they. I haven't calculated our savings rate since it is surely depressingly miniscule - we're barely operating in the black. Really looking forward to the day when daycare costs go away and we can really start making progress.
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No joke, I think of myself has half-ass, not bad-ass.
Same here. We save about 35%, which feels downright depressing. We should be able to jack that up to 50% when our kids are all in school and daycare expenses go away.
I hate to burst your bubble, but after school and summer care have been almost as expensive as daycare.
YMMV. Full-time care for our preschool kid costs $850/mo. After-school care for our elementary kid costs $150/month, and next year she'll be independent enough to take the bus home and hang out/play while I work from home, so $0/month
Summer care for the elementary kid costs about $700-1000/month, depending on what kind of daycamps we sign up for.
All in all, even if you figure in the other activities the elem. kid does, care for the elementary school kid costs at least $5,000 less per year than the preschooler. I'm very much looking forward to the day when we can sock away those additional funds.
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My oldest starts K later this year and while the after school program is less than daycare (just barely), I have no f-ing clue what we will do during the summer. Maybe that is when I will throw up my hands in defeat and exit the workforce.
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No joke, I think of myself has half-ass, not bad-ass.
Same here. We save about 35%, which feels downright depressing. We should be able to jack that up to 50% when our kids are all in school and daycare expenses go away.
I hate to burst your bubble, but after school and summer care have been almost as expensive as daycare.
YMMV. Full-time care for our preschool kid costs $850/mo. After-school care for our elementary kid costs $150/month, and next year she'll be independent enough to take the bus home and hang out/play while I work from home, so $0/month
Summer care for the elementary kid costs about $700-1000/month, depending on what kind of daycamps we sign up for.
All in all, even if you figure in the other activities the elem. kid does, care for the elementary school kid costs at least $5,000 less per year than the preschooler. I'm very much looking forward to the day when we can sock away those additional funds.
Thankfully in our case, DW doesn't work during the summer (school employee) so no need to spend on camp, and when the kids are a bit older, she will probably work at a camp over the summer for extra money (and she really enjoys working at camp) as well as have the kids go there free/discounted, at least for part of the summer.
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You guys are really making me jealous with your daycare costs. The only daycare option for us costs $1800 per month for the newborn room.
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CW1: Texas is awesome. They have no income tax.
CW2: Yeah, but they get you in other ways, like with the sales tax.
Me: Yeah, but you can control your sales tax, just don't buy stuff.
CW1: Well, you can't stop spending.
Me: You can spend a lot less than you think you can.
CW1: I think the Astros are going to kick ass this year!
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This morning I was speaking with a big boss from an adjacent org. He talked about how he has to travel a lot for work and isn’t home much for his family, including his daughter who is a senior in HS. She is into journalism and met certain expectations they set for her, so they rewarded her good behavior/achievements by giving her a good camera. That cost $2k.
I found it sad that he was in a position of buying his daughter stuff instead of being able to spend more time with her. This especially hit close to home for me as I was a big daddy’s girl when I was a kid.
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No joke, I think of myself has half-ass, not bad-ass.
Same here. We save about 35%, which feels downright depressing. We should be able to jack that up to 50% when our kids are all in school and daycare expenses go away.
I hate to burst your bubble, but after school and summer care have been almost as expensive as daycare.
YMMV, but my after school/ summer care is about half of daycare, maybe a little less. (Kid 1: $10k to $4500/yr. Kid 2, 6 years later: $15k to $6500/yr.)
I don't, however, go for the really expensive summer camps. We aim for full day basic camps for most of the summer. If you fill your summer with labor intensive camps (swimming, surfing, sports, nature camps, etc. that require a high ratio of adults to students, plus bus expenses, etc... that's different. Or if you piece together 2 half day camps. We usually have 2-4 "fun" more expensive camps. The rest are basic and are $200/week or less.)
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My oldest starts K later this year and while the after school program is less than daycare (just barely), I have no f-ing clue what we will do during the summer. Maybe that is when I will throw up my hands in defeat and exit the workforce.
millions do it I'm sure. I think my friends in Mountain View always had a nanny. There's this:
https://www.bayareakidfun.com/summer-camps-in-the-bay-area/
We've pieced things together.
- Our kinder/1st/2nd grade after school program actually runs for most of the summer (all but a week or two). Full days. 7:30-5:30 includes food. About 2x the cost of the after school care.
- For our bigger kid, we had a similar drop in program at the schools that we did for 2-3 years. That was free. Budget cuts though - only 2 sites now and there are income limits.
- Nanny. Once in awhile a friend's daughter would be home from college, looking to pick up dough.
- Summer camps. These can be very competitive, as in - March 1 the city camps opened, and if you weren't online at 9 am trying to get your slot, you are screwed. But these generally aren't the ones that we have tried to get. There are a few very popular, very well priced camps that are almost full day. 9-4. Those just go really fast. The more expensive camps are slower to fill up.
So we tended to fill *most* of our summer with lower priced full day camps - the UC camp (run by students) - lots of outdoor time, send sunscreen! Swimming. Sports, etc. Not very educational, but the cheapest around. About half of the summer was this. Sometimes we'd throw in a slightly more expensive YMCA camp.
Then we'd fill in with "almost full time camps", 9 to 3 pm. Lego camps, programming camps, baseball camp.
Because we work FT, we aren't often competing with people who want the fun 9-12 noon camps. Now that big kid is older (almost 13), we can do this. Last summer, half the summer was just half day sailing or volleyball or programming camps, then he just chilled at home rest of the day. That's totally doable when those camps are $125-250 per week. If you have a 6 yo (like my younger kid), and have to fill in both morning and afternoon, then you are getting into $500-600/week territory. And...no.
Then we usually take 1-2 week vacation of the 10 total weeks.
And yes, every summer I have a "summer camp spreadsheet", with each kid in a separate column, a row for each week, the camp they are in, the hours, the cost, etc. I call it "Summer Camp Tetris". Welcome to the fun.
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That sounds exhausting. And “almost full time” 9-4 stop doesn’t work to allow two parents to have full-time careers. And that is just one kid. Naturally, the other will be on a different schedule with different care at a different location. God forbid one parent has to travel, then the carefully constructed house of cards comes falling down.
I need more sleep. I’m feeling particularly grumpy today. Damn this country.
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That sounds exhausting. And “almost full time” 9-4 stop doesn’t work to allow two parents to have full-time careers. And that is just one kid. Naturally, the other will be on a different schedule with different care at a different location. God forbid one parent has to travel, then the carefully constructed house of cards comes falling down.
I need more sleep. I’m feeling particularly grumpy today. Damn this country.
Then that is only if the children are not disabled in anyway. Add to all that the need for multiple doctor appointments, speech/OT/PT, IEP meetings, etc. etc., etc. and it becomes a nightmare. Especially if you do not have able-bodied grandparents who are retired, available year round, live near you, you are on good terms with, and are dependable enough to do appointments or school pick ups. My son's disabilities basically prevented me from having a full time career, which has cost us hundreds of thousands dollars over the years. Other than losing the majority of your assets and going on SSI, there are no programs like paid parental leave, unemployment, short or long term disability, etc. to replace the income lost by caring for a disabled child and many critically ill or severely disabled children cannot go to regular daycare. I am fortunate to be able to work part time. Making less money per hour than I did in 2002. 'Merica - the greatest country in the world, amirite?
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I am fortunate to be able to work part time. Making less money per hour than I did in 2002. 'Merica - the greatest country in the world, amirite?
Well...
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You guys are really making me jealous with your daycare costs. The only daycare option for us costs $1800 per month for the newborn room.
I think Au Pairs are cheaper than that!
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You guys are really making me jealous with your daycare costs. The only daycare option for us costs $1800 per month for the newborn room.
I think Au Pairs are cheaper than that!
Not in Denver! Everything I’ve seen says between $16-$18 per hour for a full-time nanny. When I nannied 10 years ago I got $14 per hour. There could be cheaper daycares in the area but not that will work for our family. We are currently considering having my husband quit his job and stay at home for at least the first year.
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Not in Denver! Everything I’ve seen says between $16-$18 per hour for a full-time nanny. When I nannied 10 years ago I got $14 per hour. There could be cheaper daycares in the area but not that will work for our family. We are currently considering having my husband quit his job and stay at home for at least the first year.
You can get an au pair for 18K/year. 8K for the agency and 200/week for the au pair.
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Not in Denver! Everything I’ve seen says between $16-$18 per hour for a full-time nanny. When I nannied 10 years ago I got $14 per hour. There could be cheaper daycares in the area but not that will work for our family. We are currently considering having my husband quit his job and stay at home for at least the first year.
You can get an au pair for 18K/year. 8K for the agency and 200/week for the au pair.
But they have to live with you and we don't have an extra room. Squeezing in a baby will be hard enough. Thank you for the idea though! I don't want to hijack this thread anymore :)
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One of my colleagues is around 60. During the lunch break he was talking about his retirement at the standard age of 67. Another co-worker asked him if he didn't vision retiring at 62, which is a legal option. The older colleague explained that he has a wife who still works and a living mother and MIL. He thinks that if he retires early, they will use him as an errand boy for everything. So he doesn't want to make himself available for that. His mother is 85 and he hopes that she won't live another 10 years. I can actually understand what he says. He lives too close to them.
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DH dropped these two stories at dinner last night (at home, of course).
Colleague the first is paying $1,000 per month for car insurance. In the last year, he's totalled two vehicles, his luve-in GF totalled her car and the GF's live-in daughter totalled hers. He totalled his truck by hitting a telephone while pulling out of his very long driveway. He was texting. Presumably the telephone pole was not newly installed.
Colleague the second's spouse is a pill popper. She used through her pregnancy and their six year old is so delayed that she's still in diapers. The wife has had five car accidents in the last 60 days. In the latest one, she sideswiped a guardrail, abandoned the vehicle, then reported it stolen. Colleague is filing for divorce this week. Their poor child.
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I was just overhearing a conversation about retirement planning and how most of the country is woefully unprepared. It made me happy to hear that discussed at work.
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DH dropped these two stories at dinner last night (at home, of course).
Colleague the first is paying $1,000 per month for car insurance. In the last year, he's totalled two vehicles, his luve-in GF totalled her car and the GF's live-in daughter totalled hers. He totalled his truck by hitting a telephone while pulling out of his very long driveway. He was texting. Presumably the telephone pole was not newly installed.
Colleague the second's spouse is a pill popper. She used through her pregnancy and their six year old is so delayed that she's still in diapers. The wife has had five car accidents in the last 60 days. In the latest one, she sideswiped a guardrail, abandoned the vehicle, then reported it stolen. Colleague is filing for divorce this week. Their poor child.
The first story is antimustachian, the second is just sad
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I was just overhearing a conversation about retirement planning and how most of the country is woefully unprepared. It made me happy to hear that discussed at work.
Was it an upbeat conversation then? I overhear similar conversations but it typically is a more cynical conversation where the people are agreeing that it is impossible to save and retire in:
- this economy
- this day and age
- city/state
- any other excuse
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In my country, pension premiums are paid for jointly by employers and employees. The pension contributions are tax-deferred so your taxable income is lower + you don't pay wealth tax over money that is tied up in a pension instead of in your bank account. Pensions also seem to be much safer than they are in the US.
In some situations the employer doesn't pay the premium (for example during unpaid leave, parental leave, sabbatical) but the employee is offered the option to pay the full premium so this period is covered by the pension. Seems like payroll has been routinely advising people not to pay their own premiums, because "they yearly pension doesn't rise as much as the amount of premium you pay now" which is
1. Not true in all cases
2. Very much depends on how long you or your spouse will receive the pension (i.e. if your spouse is 20 years younger in all likelihood you'll get your money's worth out of the pension contributions)
3. Assumes the employee has no savings
4. Doesn't factor in that contributions are tax deductible
5. Doesn't factor in the benefits of having a lower taxable income
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I was just overhearing a conversation about retirement planning and how most of the country is woefully unprepared. It made me happy to hear that discussed at work.
Was it an upbeat conversation then? I overhear similar conversations but it typically is a more cynical conversation where the people are agreeing that it is impossible to save and retire in:
- this economy
- this day and age
- city/state
- any other excuse
Mostly yeah - basically they were saying how they were meeting with the (work / Fidelity provided) financial advisor and they were largely on track, but most Americans can't handle a $400 emergency and that's rather scary overall.
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In my country, pension premiums are paid for jointly by employers and employees. The pension contributions are tax-deferred so your taxable income is lower + you don't pay wealth tax over money that is tied up in a pension instead of in your bank account. Pensions also seem to be much safer than they are in the US.
In some situations the employer doesn't pay the premium (for example during unpaid leave, parental leave, sabbatical) but the employee is offered the option to pay the full premium so this period is covered by the pension. Seems like payroll has been routinely advising people not to pay their own premiums, because "they yearly pension doesn't rise as much as the amount of premium you pay now" which is
1. Not true in all cases
2. Very much depends on how long you or your spouse will receive the pension (i.e. if your spouse is 20 years younger in all likelihood you'll get your money's worth out of the pension contributions)
3. Assumes the employee has no savings
4. Doesn't factor in that contributions are tax deductible
5. Doesn't factor in the benefits of having a lower taxable income
I am always amazed at how uninformed most HR folks are. It seems to be universal. And it doesn't seem to stop them from speaking with authority.
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In my country, pension premiums are paid for jointly by employers and employees. The pension contributions are tax-deferred so your taxable income is lower + you don't pay wealth tax over money that is tied up in a pension instead of in your bank account. Pensions also seem to be much safer than they are in the US.
In some situations the employer doesn't pay the premium (for example during unpaid leave, parental leave, sabbatical) but the employee is offered the option to pay the full premium so this period is covered by the pension. Seems like payroll has been routinely advising people not to pay their own premiums, because "they yearly pension doesn't rise as much as the amount of premium you pay now" which is
1. Not true in all cases
2. Very much depends on how long you or your spouse will receive the pension (i.e. if your spouse is 20 years younger in all likelihood you'll get your money's worth out of the pension contributions)
3. Assumes the employee has no savings
4. Doesn't factor in that contributions are tax deductible
5. Doesn't factor in the benefits of having a lower taxable income
I am always amazed at how uninformed most HR folks are. It seems to be universal. And it doesn't seem to stop them from speaking with authority.
It borders into illegal here to present an employee with financial advice without being a financial advisor, the company becomes responsible if it’s bad advice. My HR is very careful to present options, they never encourage a choice though. It’s a fine line, but it’s their duty to be a resource of information, not to tell or advise people what to do.
When my wife went on leave she had the option of keeping optional insurance. HR was careful to say what benefits she would get, they never once said she should keep it. We opted out, it wasn’t right for us. They did their jobs perfectly, lots of information but never telling a person what to do.
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DH dropped these two stories at dinner last night (at home, of course).
Colleague the first is paying $1,000 per month for car insurance. In the last year, he's totalled two vehicles, his luve-in GF totalled her car and the GF's live-in daughter totalled hers. He totalled his truck by hitting a telephone while pulling out of his very long driveway. He was texting. Presumably the telephone pole was not newly installed.
Colleague the second's spouse is a pill popper. She used through her pregnancy and their six year old is so delayed that she's still in diapers. The wife has had five car accidents in the last 60 days. In the latest one, she sideswiped a guardrail, abandoned the vehicle, then reported it stolen. Colleague is filing for divorce this week. Their poor child.
The first story is antimustachian, the second is just sad
I agree that it's sad, but there's plenty of anitmustachianism to go along with the sadness.
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his luve-in GF
This is either very clever or the Freudian slip of the day. Kudos either way.
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In my country, pension premiums are paid for jointly by employers and employees. The pension contributions are tax-deferred so your taxable income is lower + you don't pay wealth tax over money that is tied up in a pension instead of in your bank account. Pensions also seem to be much safer than they are in the US.
In some situations the employer doesn't pay the premium (for example during unpaid leave, parental leave, sabbatical) but the employee is offered the option to pay the full premium so this period is covered by the pension. Seems like payroll has been routinely advising people not to pay their own premiums, because "they yearly pension doesn't rise as much as the amount of premium you pay now" which is
1. Not true in all cases
2. Very much depends on how long you or your spouse will receive the pension (i.e. if your spouse is 20 years younger in all likelihood you'll get your money's worth out of the pension contributions)
3. Assumes the employee has no savings
4. Doesn't factor in that contributions are tax deductible
5. Doesn't factor in the benefits of having a lower taxable income
I am always amazed at how uninformed most HR folks are. It seems to be universal. And it doesn't seem to stop them from speaking with authority.
It borders into illegal here to present an employee with financial advice without being a financial advisor, the company becomes responsible if it’s bad advice. My HR is very careful to present options, they never encourage a choice though. It’s a fine line, but it’s their duty to be a resource of information, not to tell or advise people what to do.
When my wife went on leave she had the option of keeping optional insurance. HR was careful to say what benefits she would get, they never once said she should keep it. We opted out, it wasn’t right for us. They did their jobs perfectly, lots of information but never telling a person what to do.
It's basically the same in here. I work in payroll as well and always try to present the options in a neutral way, with a list of pros and cons for each option.
What this person has been doing is making staff sign a waiver that they were informed of the risk that they would pay more than they'd get paid out in retirement and that they can't hold the company liable in that case. They hadn't informed the employee about any of the other aspects and were pretty clear about what the "right" choice was from their tone of voice.
If you tell the average employee their choice is so bad they need to sign a waiver, without providing context, to me that's basically the same as giving very bad advice. The employee thinks you're the expert and most of them follow your advice blindly.
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DH dropped these two stories at dinner last night (at home, of course).
Colleague the first is paying $1,000 per month for car insurance. In the last year, he's totalled two vehicles, his luve-in GF totalled her car and the GF's live-in daughter totalled hers. He totalled his truck by hitting a telephone while pulling out of his very long driveway. He was texting. Presumably the telephone pole was not newly installed.
Colleague the second's spouse is a pill popper. She used through her pregnancy and their six year old is so delayed that she's still in diapers. The wife has had five car accidents in the last 60 days. In the latest one, she sideswiped a guardrail, abandoned the vehicle, then reported it stolen. Colleague is filing for divorce this week. Their poor child.
I wish vehicles were seen more in line with the risk that they pose, closer to lethal weapons.
"Jane's shot 5 people in the last 60 days" would get a lot more attention.
I love cars, but with great power comes great responsibility.
My heart goes out to that child.
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In my country, pension premiums are paid for jointly by employers and employees. The pension contributions are tax-deferred so your taxable income is lower + you don't pay wealth tax over money that is tied up in a pension instead of in your bank account. Pensions also seem to be much safer than they are in the US.
In some situations the employer doesn't pay the premium (for example during unpaid leave, parental leave, sabbatical) but the employee is offered the option to pay the full premium so this period is covered by the pension. Seems like payroll has been routinely advising people not to pay their own premiums, because "they yearly pension doesn't rise as much as the amount of premium you pay now" which is
1. Not true in all cases
2. Very much depends on how long you or your spouse will receive the pension (i.e. if your spouse is 20 years younger in all likelihood you'll get your money's worth out of the pension contributions)
3. Assumes the employee has no savings
4. Doesn't factor in that contributions are tax deductible
5. Doesn't factor in the benefits of having a lower taxable income
I am always amazed at how uninformed most HR folks are. It seems to be universal. And it doesn't seem to stop them from speaking with authority.
It borders into illegal here to present an employee with financial advice without being a financial advisor, the company becomes responsible if it’s bad advice. My HR is very careful to present options, they never encourage a choice though. It’s a fine line, but it’s their duty to be a resource of information, not to tell or advise people what to do.
When my wife went on leave she had the option of keeping optional insurance. HR was careful to say what benefits she would get, they never once said she should keep it. We opted out, it wasn’t right for us. They did their jobs perfectly, lots of information but never telling a person what to do.
It's basically the same in here. I work in payroll as well and always try to present the options in a neutral way, with a list of pros and cons for each option.
What this person has been doing is making staff sign a waiver that they were informed of the risk that they would pay more than they'd get paid out in retirement and that they can't hold the company liable in that case. They hadn't informed the employee about any of the other aspects and were pretty clear about what the "right" choice was from their tone of voice.
If you tell the average employee their choice is so bad they need to sign a waiver, without providing context, to me that's basically the same as giving very bad advice. The employee thinks you're the expert and most of them follow your advice blindly.
It's kind of ironic that the waiver the payroll person is asking the employees to sign actually provides evidence of the ineptitude of the advice.
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It's kind of ironic that the waiver the payroll person is asking the employees to sign actually provides evidence of the ineptitude of the advice.
Yeah. If anyone is giving me "advice" and wants me to sign a waver, I put my hands on by back and am very dubious of this advise.
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Two of my coworkers who are always complaining about money were talking excitedly in the hallway. One of them had gotten a package and was opening it. It was a pair of Rothys. One coworker was talking about how she's got 2 of them now and is wanting to buy a third pair in a print. That's over $500 in shoes!
Rothy's and Tieks are a big deal around my office - LOTS of women have them. My supervisor says she buys shoes instead of clothes and she has at least 10 pairs of each. Craziness! I dream about having one pair of either one, but I just keep buying the cheap flats from Target instead.
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Rothy's and Tieks are a big deal around my office - LOTS of women have them. My supervisor says she buys shoes instead of clothes and she has at least 10 pairs of each. Craziness! I dream about having one pair of either one, but I just keep buying the cheap flats from Target instead.
Maybe I live under a rock, but I have never heard of either of these brands.
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Rothy's and Tieks are a big deal around my office - LOTS of women have them. My supervisor says she buys shoes instead of clothes and she has at least 10 pairs of each. Craziness! I dream about having one pair of either one, but I just keep buying the cheap flats from Target instead.
Maybe I live under a rock, but I have never heard of either of these brands.
They are $200 pairs of flats. Rothy’s are made from recycled plastic and can be put in the washer which is why I’m enticed - I hate when flats get smelly.
Tieks are leather and have a blue stripe on the back
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Rothy's and Tieks are a big deal around my office - LOTS of women have them. My supervisor says she buys shoes instead of clothes and she has at least 10 pairs of each. Craziness! I dream about having one pair of either one, but I just keep buying the cheap flats from Target instead.
Maybe I live under a rock, but I have never heard of either of these brands.
They are $200 pairs of flats. Rothy’s are made from recycled plastic and can be put in the washer which is why I’m enticed - I hate when flats get smelly.
Tieks are leather and have a blue stripe on the back
Interesting. Those plastic ones sound a little sweaty, but overall good for the environment. I hope.
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Rothy's and Tieks are a big deal around my office - LOTS of women have them. My supervisor says she buys shoes instead of clothes and she has at least 10 pairs of each. Craziness! I dream about having one pair of either one, but I just keep buying the cheap flats from Target instead.
Maybe I live under a rock, but I have never heard of either of these brands.
They are $200 pairs of flats. Rothy’s are made from recycled plastic and can be put in the washer which is why I’m enticed - I hate when flats get smelly.
Tieks are leather and have a blue stripe on the back
Interesting. Those plastic ones sound a little sweaty, but overall good for the environment. I hope.
I actually have Rothy’s after I put a call out for recommendations to my greater crowd of social media friends. I have pretty strict requirements for my wide feet (flexible, flat, thin soles, comfort above all, want quality that lasts). Flats from Target just don’t cut it for my oddly-shaped feet. I got a pair (I think the flats are $120) and got a second when I got several $20 off coupons stacked up from referring friends.
I love that they are recycled. The shoes are a woven material so they aren’t sweaty the way you’d expect a plastic shoe to be. I love that I wear them everywhere and doing everything, including rainy rides to work on my bike. If they get dirty, I throw them in the wash and they come out looking brand-new. I’ve worn pretty much nothing but them for the last year except when on a run or at the gym and they still look basically new. If they really do continue to hold up then I’ll consider them a better buy than my other shoes that give up after a few years.
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One of my co-workers (about 50 years old) is about to buy a home. He just emigrated here and is correctly renting a home. The and his wife have money from selling their previous home. So far, so good.
He talked to a bank to get a preapproval for a mortgage, which is something you need here to make an offer on a home. The bank was presenting him the option of the flexi-mortgage. This is just an amount of credit that the bank gives you, based on the value of your home and you need to pay it back on a certain date, e.g. after 30 years. You need to pay a monthly interest, but you can decide not to pay that fee for several months as often as you like. As long as you pay it in the end with all the extra interest. You can also take out a big sum when the mortgage is partly paid down, to buy a car or a new kitchen, and just use the same mortgage. The mortgage has a higher interest rate than a traditional mortgage.
My co-worker thinks this sounds as a good alternative. He likes to be able to not pay the monthly interest for some months and then catch up later when he receives a lump sum out of a savings fund.
From me he just wanted to know whether this was something safe to bet on. I have heard a sincere financial expert speaking about this type of mortgage, who said it was a good alternative for people who are financially responsible, something my co-worker says he is.
I really had to keep my mouth shut for the rest of my thoughts. I would not get a mortgage with higher interest than necessary. I would also not choose to not pay the monthly fee for some months, because that means paying extra interest later. I really had to keep in mind that for my co-worker, it might be a good alternative, even though it means he won't be paying down his mortgage any time soon.
The good thing is that the bank has pre-qualified him for a mortgage that is twice as high as he asked for and he is not planning to get such a high mortgage. Good for him.
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Rothy's and Tieks are a big deal around my office - LOTS of women have them. My supervisor says she buys shoes instead of clothes and she has at least 10 pairs of each. Craziness! I dream about having one pair of either one, but I just keep buying the cheap flats from Target instead.
Maybe I live under a rock, but I have never heard of either of these brands.
They are $200 pairs of flats. Rothy’s are made from recycled plastic and can be put in the washer which is why I’m enticed - I hate when flats get smelly.
Tieks are leather and have a blue stripe on the back
Interesting. Those plastic ones sound a little sweaty, but overall good for the environment. I hope.
I actually have Rothy’s after I put a call out for recommendations to my greater crowd of social media friends. I have pretty strict requirements for my wide feet (flexible, flat, thin soles, comfort above all, want quality that lasts). Flats from Target just don’t cut it for my oddly-shaped feet. I got a pair (I think the flats are $120) and got a second when I got several $20 off coupons stacked up from referring friends.
I love that they are recycled. The shoes are a woven material so they aren’t sweaty the way you’d expect a plastic shoe to be. I love that I wear them everywhere and doing everything, including rainy rides to work on my bike. If they get dirty, I throw them in the wash and they come out looking brand-new. I’ve worn pretty much nothing but them for the last year except when on a run or at the gym and they still look basically new. If they really do continue to hold up then I’ll consider them a better buy than my other shoes that give up after a few years.
I have no problem paying $$ for a quality pair of shoes that lasts for a few years. My Danskos, Birkenstocks, Merrell sneakers, and Frye boots have all been worth the money. I’m intrigued by the Rothy’s flats!
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I can't help but recall Carrie (From "Sex and the City"): "I like my money where I can see it: hanging in my closet!"
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I can't help but recall Carrie (From "Sex and the City"): "I like my money where I can see it: hanging in my closet!"
*shrugs* I can pay a small price for cheap shoes that wear out quickly and need to be replaced often, or I can pay more for better quality and wear the same shoes (that have been broken in to fit my feet exactly) for several years. My Frye boots are on year 7. I need to have the heels resoled, but I expect to get at least another decade out of them. YMMV.
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*shrugs* I can pay a small price for cheap shoes that wear out quickly and need to be replaced often, or I can pay more for better quality and wear the same shoes (that have been broken in to fit my feet exactly) for several years. My Frye boots are on year 7. I need to have the heels resoled, but I expect to get at least another decade out of them. YMMV.
See also the Sam Vimes "Boots" Theory of Economic Injustice (https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Sam_Vimes_Theory_of_Economic_Injustice).
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Yesterday I walked into a conversation two coworkers were having about what they would do if they won the $750 million lottery jackpot. Both were spouting off the usual: cars, houses, boats, world travel, personal masseuse etc.
But the really interesting part of the conversation came up when CW1 started talking about how she'd start by paying off all of her debt and then seemed to have an epiphany: "You know, if we didn't have any debt, no credit cards debt, no car payments, no mortgage, we could live a really nice life on our salary."
I smiled and nodded while inwardly cringing at the thought of what her monthly debt bills must be (this is the coworker who once told me that she, her mom and her sister shop as a hobby and often go out to the outlets on the weekend for some mindless spending).
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Two of my coworkers who are always complaining about money were talking excitedly in the hallway. One of them had gotten a package and was opening it. It was a pair of Rothys. One coworker was talking about how she's got 2 of them now and is wanting to buy a third pair in a print. That's over $500 in shoes!
Rothy's and Tieks are a big deal around my office - LOTS of women have them. My supervisor says she buys shoes instead of clothes and she has at least 10 pairs of each. Craziness! I dream about having one pair of either one, but I just keep buying the cheap flats from Target instead.
I got a pair of Tieks for Christmas in 2017. They were comfy once broken in, but they didn't hold up well at all. The (large interior) stitching started coming undone within a month or two. I sent a picture to the company, but they insisted it was a cosmetic issue only. Then after about eight months of semi-regular use the front sole of one of the shoes came half undone and the shoes became unwearable. I thought about trying to insist the company fix them, but then realized I didn't actually like them enough to justify it. I'll stick to my $20 Walmart/Target black flats instead.
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I used to not care about wearing cheap shoes. When I took up running in my mid-20s my feet got about a size bigger and my tolerance for squished toes and poorly fitting shoes went dramatically down. It was like I developed this awareness and appreciation for my feet that I hadn’t had previously. So I am more picky about my shoes now and more willing to spend $ to find something that fits my needs.
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With the right brand shoes can really last. I bought "cheap" shoes for years and years before finding shoes that suddenly lasted 3-4 times longer than the cheap shoes and felt good enough to wear everyday.
Imagine that - feels good and lasts too.
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This is more of a "Spotted at Work," but I see it every Friday and it drives me crazy:
Every week my department has a morning seminar with free refreshments including coffee and bagels. Everyone on our floor is invited to attend. There is a group of coworkers who, pretty much every week, walk over to the Starbucks in our building to buy coffees to bring back and drink in the seminar.
Oh, and guess what type of coffee is brewed and served at the seminar? Starbucks! I JUST DON'T GET IT!
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This is more of a "Spotted at Work," but I see it every Friday and it drives me crazy:
Every week my department has a morning seminar with free refreshments including coffee and bagels. Everyone on our floor is invited to attend. There is a group of coworkers who, pretty much every week, walk over to the Starbucks in our building to buy coffees to bring back and drink in the seminar.
Oh, and guess what type of coffee is brewed and served at the seminar? Starbucks! I JUST DON'T GET IT!
Are they getting plain, brewed coffee or espresso with flavoring and dairy? Because frankly, Starbucks brewed coffee sucks.
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Are they getting plain, brewed coffee or espresso with flavoring and dairy? Because frankly, Starbucks brewed coffee sucks.
Maybe some fancy-schmancy espresso drinks? Today someone literally got up in the middle of the seminar and came back with an iced coffee from Starbucks. I'm not much of a coffee snob, so I guess I'll never understand...
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Someone brought fancy cupcakes to a meeting at work. I just found out they were $9 per cupcake. I’m glad I ate one and took two to go (they were leftovers and no one wanted them).
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Someone brought fancy cupcakes to a meeting at work. I just found out they were $9 per cupcake. I’m glad I ate one and took two to go (they were leftovers and no one wanted them).
OK, so I'm going to need to hear a little more about these $9 cupcakes. Did they have gold foil?
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Someone brought fancy cupcakes to a meeting at work. I just found out they were $9 per cupcake. I’m glad I ate one and took two to go (they were leftovers and no one wanted them).
OK, so I'm going to need to hear a little more about these $9 cupcakes. Did they have gold foil?
That would be more expensive.
It was probably just some hand made cupcakes from a monk who meditated 20 years in the Himalaya on the meaning of cupcakes for your sould if working for $Megacorp
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Someone brought fancy cupcakes to a meeting at work. I just found out they were $9 per cupcake. I’m glad I ate one and took two to go (they were leftovers and no one wanted them).
OK, so I'm going to need to hear a little more about these $9 cupcakes. Did they have gold foil?
They kind of looked like these cupcakes (picture courtesy of the Internet since I didn’t actually take a picture of the cupcake). They had a chocolate base. Some kind of fancy imported Belgian dark chocolate and imported chocolate chips. And each one’s frosting was individually hand crafted.
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And each one’s frosting was individually hand crafted.
Not to argue that $9 cupcakes are worth it, but after trying to decorate my son's birthday cake this year, I realized how much time and skill goes into pretty decorations like that. So I can't blame whoever is selling them for that price - I just probably wouldn't ever buy them. But I like admiring pictures!
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And each one’s frosting was individually hand crafted.
Not to argue that $9 cupcakes are worth it, but after trying to decorate my son's birthday cake this year, I realized how much time and skill goes into pretty decorations like that. So I can't blame whoever is selling them for that price - I just probably wouldn't ever buy them. But I like admiring pictures!
Yeah, cake decorating is a tricky skill. I might splurge on a few fancy cupcakes like that for a special occasion (e.g., my MIL's upcoming 70th birthday, if she didn't prefer cheesecake). I wouldn't ever waste the money on a work meeting where people would be just as happy with donuts from Tim Horton's.
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Too pretty to eat.
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Those do look pretty sweet. I can appreciate some food art, even if I wouldn't buy it.
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It borders into illegal here to present an employee with financial advice without being a financial advisor, the company becomes responsible if it’s bad advice.
Back in the old days, I worked at a silicon-valley startup. They became pretty desperate for money, and started marketing stock options heavily at employees. They pretty much straight-up told us that we could make no better investment than putting large amounts of cash into a single tech company. And I have to say, the company had a strong family feel, in which the CEO was a wise father whose advice we could trust to make us all rich.
One guy borrowed against his 401(k) to buy in. I ended up flipping mine the instant it went public, and only lost a few thousand.
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It borders into illegal here to present an employee with financial advice without being a financial advisor, the company becomes responsible if it’s bad advice.
Back in the old days, I worked at a silicon-valley startup. They became pretty desperate for money, and started marketing stock options heavily at employees. They pretty much straight-up told us that we could make no better investment than putting large amounts of cash into a single tech company. And I have to say, the company had a strong family feel, in which the CEO was a wise father whose advice we could trust to make us all rich.
One guy borrowed against his 401(k) to buy in. I ended up flipping mine the instant it went public, and only lost a few thousand.
I had a similar experience and loss with a silicon valley IPO. Painful.
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CW#1: Bought a 45k$ Civic(in Canada) but lamented he couldn't buy winter tires...
CW#2: Bought tickets to a cruise before his time off was approved. It wasn't approved. They sold his ticket to his wife's friend at a loss.
CW#3: Traded in their "old" car for a brand new one, driver side window promptly froze open in a drive thru!
CW#4: Has an adult daughter, son and his wife at home, he's the only breadwinner. He's receiving an inheritance and buying a motorcycle. (I think he should hire some muscle to "motivate" his son, jk...). Actually I told him he should buy a condo and rent it to his son, but I guess his son is a deadbeat at 20.
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CW#1: Bought a 45k$ Civic(in Canada) but lamented he couldn't buy winter tires...
I didn't think that was possible, but maybe it's the Civic TypeR? https://automobiles.honda.com/civic-type-r
It even gets terrible mileage for a small car!
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I tend to find an inverse correlation between how pretty a cake is and how delicious it is. I think most frosting tastes like crap and just don’t understand the point of putting time and energy into foodstuffs that are at best barely edible. But maybe I say that in part because my family has a history of baking excellent-tasting cakes and then doing a crappy job on the frosting. I personally can make a damn good chocolate cake but it always looks like it was frosted by a 6 year-old.
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I tend to find an inverse correlation between how pretty a cake is and how delicious it is. I think most frosting tastes like crap and just don’t understand the point of putting time and energy into foodstuffs that are at best barely edible. But maybe I say that in part because my family has a history of baking excellent-tasting cakes and then doing a crappy job on the frosting. I personally can make a damn good chocolate cake but it always looks like it was frosted by a 6 year-old.
One word: ganache. Get some in your life immediately.
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I tend to find an inverse correlation between how pretty a cake is and how delicious it is. I think most frosting tastes like crap and just don’t understand the point of putting time and energy into foodstuffs that are at best barely edible. But maybe I say that in part because my family has a history of baking excellent-tasting cakes and then doing a crappy job on the frosting. I personally can make a damn good chocolate cake but it always looks like it was frosted by a 6 year-old.
One word: ganache. Get some in your life immediately.
Looks intriguing. Do you know of any good non-dairy recipes?
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Okay, a little googling seems to indicate that I can use dairy alternative mills. I’m curious to try with my most-excellent cashew milk actually.
https://blog.planete-gateau.com/ganache-sans-lactose/
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I tend to find an inverse correlation between how pretty a cake is and how delicious it is. I think most frosting tastes like crap and just don’t understand the point of putting time and energy into foodstuffs that are at best barely edible. But maybe I say that in part because my family has a history of baking excellent-tasting cakes and then doing a crappy job on the frosting. I personally can make a damn good chocolate cake but it always looks like it was frosted by a 6 year-old.
When we get served cake at work, I am the one who usually eats some of the marzipan flower decorations. As long as it is fresh, I like the taste of it. But when it is old and dried out, then meh!
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Marzipan is one thing but often cake decoration here is just vegetable fat and sugar with food coloring. Gross!
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Marzipan is one thing but often cake decoration here is just vegetable fat and sugar with food coloring. Gross!
And it's usually gritty sugar in the frosting. Blech. Even as a kid, I scraped off that stuff. Cake is good. Crap frosting is not.
Good real buttercream frosting, OTOH...yes please. Marzipan would also be acceptable.
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I will do marshmallow fondant with a buttercream crumbcoat. I completely understand why big, intricate cakes are so expensive. The last cake I did for my kid took three days and probably $50 worth of ingredients. And that was using cake mix (I doctored it up a little with different flavorings and stuff though). Which is still cheaper than the chocolate/almond/raspberry concoction that I make about every other Thanksgiving.
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acquaintance has 7 TVS, hubbie bought a $400 LIGHT saber for halloween (for him to use), they bought new SUV,
she got temporary raise for 3 months, and took her infant son and in-laws to LAS Vegas to blow the $
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CW#1: Bought a 45k$ Civic(in Canada) but lamented he couldn't buy winter tires...
This just makes me cringe.
So many people equate 4wd/car type to safety: "I needed to get a 4-wheel-drive vehicle. Now I can go 15mph faster than the speed limit in a snow storm."
Actually, no. You needed to get new tires and learn how to drive. Every car has 4-wheel-brakes.
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One word: ganache. Get some in your life immediately.
Thank you for this. I've been needing to find another cake-topper option (I grew up with buttercream, DH likes cream cheese, neither of us like fondant).
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CW#1: Bought a 45k$ Civic(in Canada) but lamented he couldn't buy winter tires...
This just makes me cringe.
So many people equate 4wd/car type to safety: "I needed to get a 4-wheel-drive vehicle. Now I can go 15mph faster than the speed limit in a snow storm."
Actually, no. You needed to get new tires and learn how to drive. Every car has 4-wheel-brakes.
Everybody talks about GOING when stopping and steering are the real important parts.
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Two of my coworkers who are always complaining about money were talking excitedly in the hallway. One of them had gotten a package and was opening it. It was a pair of Rothys. One coworker was talking about how she's got 2 of them now and is wanting to buy a third pair in a print. That's over $500 in shoes!
Rothy's and Tieks are a big deal around my office - LOTS of women have them. My supervisor says she buys shoes instead of clothes and she has at least 10 pairs of each. Craziness! I dream about having one pair of either one, but I just keep buying the cheap flats from Target instead.
They are popular among my friends, either the spendy ones or those without children.
I wear my old running shoes to work. I could bust on people for their $125-$250 shoes, and multiple pairs...but I wear through 2 pairs of $120-160 running shoes a year too, so...
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That sounds exhausting. And “almost full time” 9-4 stop doesn’t work to allow two parents to have full-time careers. And that is just one kid. Naturally, the other will be on a different schedule with different care at a different location. God forbid one parent has to travel, then the carefully constructed house of cards comes falling down.
I need more sleep. I’m feeling particularly grumpy today. Damn this country.
Well, it does...it just depends on the career, the type of job, and the amount of flexibility.
Some of the camps have before and after care (for extra). This all means that if you ABSOLUTELY NEED care until 5:30, then you choose a camp with those hours.
But, both my husband and I can work from home from time to time.
So nobody REALLY cares if the schedule looks like this:
Parent A goes to work at 7 and leaves at 3:30 pm to pick up the kids by 4 (that's 8.5 hours...so full time hours)
Parent B drops kids off at camp at 9, and works 9:15 to 6 pm or thereabouts. (again, full time hours)
If my husband travels (I don't travel), then often I don't get to work until 9:15 and then I have to leave at 3:30 pm (this happens during the school year too). That's only 6 hours - SO, I either work from home for a couple of hours in the morning or at night OR I take PTO.
It's hard to figure out how to face it, until you've faced it. It's not so bad once you've done it, or you've met other parents with kids in school - there are literally dozens of ways that people juggle their work and camp/ school/ childcare schedules. I've found that trying to work a full 40 hours when my husband is traveling is just folly. I get burned out. So, I take PTO. That means that 8 or 9 out of 10 times when it's a school holiday, but not a work holiday - husband takes the holiday.
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Following
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We were having lunch with a group of coworkers and a few of them started complaining about a couple they all know (I don't). Apparantly they are succesful hard working professionals, but they only work short term well paid temp contracts. Then every time they've saved enough money they move out of their rental and sell all of their furniture and travel until their money is gone. Then they find a new place and get new stuff from the thrift store. They didn't have kids and have done this for decades. Everyone seemed shocked about what this would do to their pension, how they were scroungers, how they would never have any certainty in their life. I tried to bring up (closeted mustachian) that it sounded like they were living a good life and certainly didn't harm anyone with their life choices, but everyone else agreed their life can't be meaningful this way and was a very stupid choice that they would regret when they're old.
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Imma, that's a tough one to determine without more context. My FIL used to work until he got frustrated, then quit and live off of credit until it ran out, then find another job and slowly pay down his debt. Lather, rinse, repeat. He retired a few years ago without a good idea of his spending and moved to a new location without thoroughly researching COL. Now he needs to keep working at minimum wage jobs and rent out rooms in his house to supplement his meager savings, and he'll never be able to quit.
I could also see that possibly the couple in question saves a large amount of their pay and then travels frugally on what's left. It sounds like a fun life to me, but I'd definitely be doing something like that, because there is some truth in your coworkers' criticism. But they don't really know enough to be criticizing either, I'd guess!
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A colleague is moving house soon.
She asked me if I thought she should buy plastic tubs ($8 each) because "they're almost the same price as buying moving boxes" ($4 each).
1. $8 is not "almost the same price" as $4.
2. Paying for plastic tubs or paying for new cardboard boxes are not the only two options. I suggested she could buy second-hand boxes from a moving company, or look online for freebies. I even found a set of 50 moving boxes for free less than 20km from her place. She said it would cost too much in fuel.
I looked at a moving house calculator online. For her size house and level of stuff, it estimated 140 boxes. That would be $1120 worth of plastic tubs.
I just mentioned that we have a heap of spare bubble wrap, packing peanuts, newspaper, etc, in the office if she's interested. "Nah, I'll just buy bubble wrap and butcher paper."
The last 2 times I moved, I got boxes for free, from work or from a neighbour. The first time I bought a pile of el cheapo boxes that were a good bargain.
One issue to consider nowadays with moving boxes, even official ones, are grey silverfish (Ctenolepisma longicaudata). In Norway many houses are now affected with these critters and they come in with carton boxes. They are difficult, if not impossible to remove from your house and your house might not be equally attractive for new buyers.
Some plastic crates can come in super handy, if you want to use them for storage later. We use those boxes for tools, camping gear and some other stuff. But not 140 of them.
I have often went to the grocery store when I needed boxes, apple boxes are good, banana boxes are nice, but you need to fill the hole in the bottom, And there are few others that work well. Lately though, the stores are going to returnable plastic containers that are reusable and probably cheaper in the long run, this is making it harder to get the boxes I want.
On the plus side, we had a hurricane---, no that's not the plus, in the thousands of piles of trash people threw out, were dozens of Rubbermaid and other brands of plastic containers of all different sizes. I know we picked up at least 60 containers some smaller for my electronics stuff and many, many larger size.
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Imma, that's a tough one to determine without more context. My FIL used to work until he got frustrated, then quit and live off of credit until it ran out, then find another job and slowly pay down his debt. Lather, rinse, repeat. He retired a few years ago without a good idea of his spending and moved to a new location without thoroughly researching COL. Now he needs to keep working at minimum wage jobs and rent out rooms in his house to supplement his meager savings, and he'll never be able to quit.
I could also see that possibly the couple in question saves a large amount of their pay and then travels frugally on what's left. It sounds like a fun life to me, but I'd definitely be doing something like that, because there is some truth in your coworkers' criticism. But they don't really know enough to be criticizing either, I'd guess!
That's true as well. No one really knows without having access to their bank accounts. Since they're in our field they likely making quite a lot as consultants during the months they are working. It sounds like they live a frugal life, renting an apartment and getting furniture from the thrift store. But of course if they spend all that's left when travelling they're looking at a lean retirement. We have a state pension, so in the worst case they'll have to live off that (around minimum wage) in old age. I can imagine some people will think that's worth it to live an exciting life now.
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We were having lunch with a group of coworkers and a few of them started complaining about a couple they all know (I don't). Apparantly they are succesful hard working professionals, but they only work short term well paid temp contracts. Then every time they've saved enough money they move out of their rental and sell all of their furniture and travel until their money is gone. Then they find a new place and get new stuff from the thrift store. They didn't have kids and have done this for decades. Everyone seemed shocked about what this would do to their pension, how they were scroungers, how they would never have any certainty in their life. I tried to bring up (closeted mustachian) that it sounded like they were living a good life and certainly didn't harm anyone with their life choices, but everyone else agreed their life can't be meaningful this way and was a very stupid choice that they would regret when they're old.
How do they know they travel until their money is gone? Doesn't make sense that they're able to just pick up where they left off and rent when you have no money. For most places (in my experience, anyway), you'll need to have 1st and last month's rent as well as security deposit upfront if your rental application is approved. It would stand to reason they have some money in the bank, and probably for emergencies, too.
Also, there are ways to travel frugally. Maybe they are visiting places where COL is really low and their money goes further.
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Yesterday my manager mentioned how it's impossible to go out for dinner for under $200 for two people. I was legitimately shocked and told him that - AT MINIMUM - that was 4 nice dinners out for a couple. He proceeded very seriously to argue with me and "demonstrate" why it was impossible in an urban area.
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Yesterday my manager mentioned how it's impossible to go out for dinner for under $200 for two people. I was legitimately shocked and told him that - AT MINIMUM - that was 4 nice dinners out for a couple. He proceeded very seriously to argue with me and "demonstrate" why it was impossible in an urban area.
IT IS LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR US TO ORDER LESS THAN 4 $15 COCKTAILS.
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Yesterday my manager mentioned how it's impossible to go out for dinner for under $200 for two people. I was legitimately shocked and told him that - AT MINIMUM - that was 4 nice dinners out for a couple. He proceeded very seriously to argue with me and "demonstrate" why it was impossible in an urban area.
I was out yesterday. 3 people. <45 €.
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We were having lunch with a group of coworkers and a few of them started complaining about a couple they all know (I don't). Apparantly they are succesful hard working professionals, but they only work short term well paid temp contracts. Then every time they've saved enough money they move out of their rental and sell all of their furniture and travel until their money is gone. Then they find a new place and get new stuff from the thrift store. They didn't have kids and have done this for decades. Everyone seemed shocked about what this would do to their pension, how they were scroungers, how they would never have any certainty in their life. I tried to bring up (closeted mustachian) that it sounded like they were living a good life and certainly didn't harm anyone with their life choices, but everyone else agreed their life can't be meaningful this way and was a very stupid choice that they would regret when they're old.
That's pretty funny. I have friends who do this too. They love to travel (but they travel on the cheap - think hostels, etc.) They met while world traveling. They dated while world traveling (would meet up for a few months of traveling). They got married and kept traveling. They would both work long enough to get itchy, then travel.
They settled down, had a kid, bought a condo. Took an extended 3 month vacation. Had a second kid. Rented out the condo, quit the job, took BOTH kids on a year round world tour (mostly staying cheaply, again - Thailand, other areas of the So Pacific, some areas of China, etc.) Came back to the condo for kindergarten. Lasted 3 months - left again on ANOTHER tour.
Finally came back. Kid #1 just started kindergarten a year late (common in their school district anyway). Not sure if Dad's found a job yet, but mom starts up soon (she hasn't worked since kid #1 was born 7 years ago).
TWICE they said "no, we are done doing that kind of travel" and did it again. I won't be surprised if they do it again. Save up enough to afford slow travel, then travel.
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Yesterday my manager mentioned how it's impossible to go out for dinner for under $200 for two people. I was legitimately shocked and told him that - AT MINIMUM - that was 4 nice dinners out for a couple. He proceeded very seriously to argue with me and "demonstrate" why it was impossible in an urban area.
I was out yesterday. 3 people. <45 €.
In my area, sure, it would difficult to have a "full" dinner (appetizer + cocktails, salads, main course + wine, dessert + coffee) at an upscale restaurant for under $200. But I can think of many more casual places where $50 would buy excellent dinners and a couple of drinks for me and husband. We've managed this in Detroit, Grand Rapids, Traverse City, Cleveland, Boston, Chicago, and San Diego in recent years, so it isn't location-dependent. Or we could go more casual and stuff ourselves with very good tacos al pastor for <$20 (which we've also done in both Detroit and San Diego). Saying that it's impossible suggests a major lack of imagination, as well as a severe case of tunnel vision. This person might also be spoiled into food snobbery.
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3 months ago, one of our employees switched off the company health insurance plan because a different private plan was a bit cheaper - because it had no peripheral services or coverage for short-term disability.
Today, PANIC - she needs to be off-work for a few weeks due to health issues. 'I'll lose my car! I'll get evicted!'
... guess that was worth the 40$/month savings, huh.
(I'm trying to sympathize, but... this is the explicit result of a choice you made.)
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3 months ago, one of our employees switched off the company health insurance plan because a different private plan was a bit cheaper - because it had no peripheral services or coverage for short-term disability.
Today, PANIC - she needs to be off-work for a few weeks due to health issues. 'I'll lose my car! I'll get evicted!'
... guess that was worth the 40$/month savings, huh.
(I'm trying to sympathize, but... this is the explicit result of a choice you made.)
I can sympathize with the wanting to cut expenses, and the problem with not being able to understanding these complex plans. I don't think you really know how much coverage you have until you have to use it. The brochures and marketing make it sound like you have great coverage, the small print has all the limitations, and exceptions.
I heard a similar story this morning from a colleague who's son (University grad so not dumb) called his cell phone service provider to get a better/cheaper monthly plan. They offered a new plan which he got and now pays $15 less per month. The next month after he changed he received a $1000 plus invoice from the service provider. Apparently changing the package even though it was with the same service provider for the same contract term triggered the "buy out" at full retail cost of his phone. If he had known that he would not have switched. He is in the process of trying to get this reversed and go back to his original plan. So far he is getting the run around told they are investigating.
I think he made a bad decision when he picked out the "FREE" IPhone and signed up for a long term contract in person at the service provider store. However, I think it is pretty shady for the service provider to not provide the details or warning that changing the plan would trigger such a large expense. It's one thing to sign a contract in person with the paper in front of you, but just talking on the phone to the company there is no way you can see the small print or know the impacts of what they are offering you unless they tell you.
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I get what you're saying, but I processed the paperwork for her insurance change, and made sure she knew what wasn't covered with the private plan (and therefore the reason for the cost difference). Her response was "I'm young, I'm not gonna get sick." So... it wasn't ignorance in this case.
Also, I do sympathize with a desire to save money. And when I was 25 and had many months of living expenses in the bank, that was the call I made. But if you're so close to the edge that 2-3 weeks of missed income is an actual crisis, snipping off your own safety net is maybe not the most prudent option.
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Yesterday my manager mentioned how it's impossible to go out for dinner for under $200 for two people. I was legitimately shocked and told him that - AT MINIMUM - that was 4 nice dinners out for a couple. He proceeded very seriously to argue with me and "demonstrate" why it was impossible in an urban area.
@katethekitcat, don't leave us in suspense, what did he say to demonstrate the impossibility?!
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Yesterday my manager mentioned how it's impossible to go out for dinner for under $200 for two people. I was legitimately shocked and told him that - AT MINIMUM - that was 4 nice dinners out for a couple. He proceeded very seriously to argue with me and "demonstrate" why it was impossible in an urban area.
@katethekitcat, don't leave us in suspense, what did he say to demonstrate the impossibility?!
I had a similar conversation to this with my brother in law once. In some instances he has been open to mustacian ideas and when we visit he usually asks me budget questions. One time I mentioned that our eating out budget for the month was $200 but we usually kept it to around $150. He was floored and tried arguing that one meal eating out for 2 people was $200. My in laws are not fancy people and live in a really rural place, so eating out for them is Buffalo Wild Wings or Chili’s. But, when you have at least 2-3 cocktails or beers per person, plus an appetizer or two plus two main courses plus a desert or two, you are still at $200. Craziness. I pointed out that #1 - we never drink anything but water when we go out and #2 - we tend to eat healthier foods and smaller portions. We can each have a large bowl of pho (we do every Sunday after church) for $19 after tip.
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Yesterday my manager mentioned how it's impossible to go out for dinner for under $200 for two people. I was legitimately shocked and told him that - AT MINIMUM - that was 4 nice dinners out for a couple. He proceeded very seriously to argue with me and "demonstrate" why it was impossible in an urban area.
@katethekitcat, don't leave us in suspense, what did he say to demonstrate the impossibility?!
I had a similar conversation to this with my brother in law once. In some instances he has been open to mustacian ideas and when we visit he usually asks me budget questions. One time I mentioned that our eating out budget for the month was $200 but we usually kept it to around $150. He was floored and tried arguing that one meal eating out for 2 people was $200. My in laws are not fancy people and live in a really rural place, so eating out for them is Buffalo Wild Wings or Chili’s. But, when you have at least 2-3 cocktails or beers per person, plus an appetizer or two plus two main courses plus a desert or two, you are still at $200. Craziness. I pointed out that #1 - we never drink anything but water when we go out and #2 - we tend to eat healthier foods and smaller portions. We can each have a large bowl of pho (we do every Sunday after church) for $19 after tip.
I can't wrap my head around a $200 dinner for two at a place like Buffalo Wild Wings or Chili’s. We're going out to dinner tomorrow at a fancy pants steakhouse and will easily spend $200, but it's a mystery shop and the reimbursement is $200. It would be really difficult for me to justify spending that on my own at any restaurant.
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Yesterday my manager mentioned how it's impossible to go out for dinner for under $200 for two people. I was legitimately shocked and told him that - AT MINIMUM - that was 4 nice dinners out for a couple. He proceeded very seriously to argue with me and "demonstrate" why it was impossible in an urban area.
@katethekitcat, don't leave us in suspense, what did he say to demonstrate the impossibility?!
I had a similar conversation to this with my brother in law once. In some instances he has been open to mustacian ideas and when we visit he usually asks me budget questions. One time I mentioned that our eating out budget for the month was $200 but we usually kept it to around $150. He was floored and tried arguing that one meal eating out for 2 people was $200. My in laws are not fancy people and live in a really rural place, so eating out for them is Buffalo Wild Wings or Chili’s. But, when you have at least 2-3 cocktails or beers per person, plus an appetizer or two plus two main courses plus a desert or two, you are still at $200. Craziness. I pointed out that #1 - we never drink anything but water when we go out and #2 - we tend to eat healthier foods and smaller portions. We can each have a large bowl of pho (we do every Sunday after church) for $19 after tip.
I can't wrap my head around a $200 dinner for two at a place like Buffalo Wild Wings or Chili’s. We're going out to dinner tomorrow at a fancy pants steakhouse and will easily spend $200, but it's a mystery shop and the reimbursement is $200. It would be really difficult for me to justify spending that on my own at any restaurant.
My husband and I used to spend roughly 150$CAD on a meal for my birthday (which was also my birthday present - gorgeous restaurant, 6-course meal, amazing food, wine, in a Victorian house near the fireplace in winter (or, if we waited till summer, out in the herb garden)... Basically an excuse to sit and chat over amazing food and wine for the better part of 4 hours (and leave the kids with the in-laws, so a KID-FREE 4 hours of conversation). Let's just say that's not an every weekend kind of dinner, and even then we're nowhere near 200$US
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I recently took my team out to dinner after work. 5 adults at a pretty nice German spot.
Two appetizers, two rounds of drinks, 5 meals - $235
I acknowledge it's really easy to spend $200 on dinner for two.
It's also really easy not to.
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We were having lunch with a group of coworkers and a few of them started complaining about a couple they all know (I don't). Apparantly they are succesful hard working professionals, but they only work short term well paid temp contracts. Then every time they've saved enough money they move out of their rental and sell all of their furniture and travel until their money is gone. Then they find a new place and get new stuff from the thrift store. They didn't have kids and have done this for decades. Everyone seemed shocked about what this would do to their pension, how they were scroungers, how they would never have any certainty in their life. I tried to bring up (closeted mustachian) that it sounded like they were living a good life and certainly didn't harm anyone with their life choices, but everyone else agreed their life can't be meaningful this way and was a very stupid choice that they would regret when they're old.
That's pretty funny. I have friends who do this too. They love to travel (but they travel on the cheap - think hostels, etc.) They met while world traveling. They dated while world traveling (would meet up for a few months of traveling). They got married and kept traveling. They would both work long enough to get itchy, then travel.
They settled down, had a kid, bought a condo. Took an extended 3 month vacation. Had a second kid. Rented out the condo, quit the job, took BOTH kids on a year round world tour (mostly staying cheaply, again - Thailand, other areas of the So Pacific, some areas of China, etc.) Came back to the condo for kindergarten. Lasted 3 months - left again on ANOTHER tour.
Finally came back. Kid #1 just started kindergarten a year late (common in their school district anyway). Not sure if Dad's found a job yet, but mom starts up soon (she hasn't worked since kid #1 was born 7 years ago).
TWICE they said "no, we are done doing that kind of travel" and did it again. I won't be surprised if they do it again. Save up enough to afford slow travel, then travel.
I'd love to see their budget and how they do this...
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acquaintance has 7 TVS, hubbie bought a $400 LIGHT saber for halloween (for him to use), they bought new SUV,
she got temporary raise for 3 months, and took her infant son and in-laws to LAS Vegas to blow the $
Seven tvs? How big is their house? I live in a 3-bed, Kitchen + Living room. If I place a tv in each room, that's 5. I guess I could add a tv in the bathroom = 6. Maybe another in the basement?
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Don't forget the deck/porch and the garage. I didn't know that outside deck TVs were a thing for a long time. My brain kept repeating "theft risk" followed by "water damage". I don't know - I guess alot of people leave $350+ stainless steel BBQ grilles outside too.
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Don't forget the deck/porch and the garage. I didn't know that outside deck TVs were a thing for a long time. My brain kept repeating "theft risk" followed by "water damage". I don't know - I guess alot of people leave $350+ stainless steel BBQ grilles outside too.
Don't they bring in the TV when not using it?
I leave my bbq outside year round in Canada. Tough as nails, that thing. (was way less than $350, too)
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I just started a new job (yay!). The folks in the office have been awesome and nice, but not particularly mustachian.
1. Most people drive to work (except two people on my team and myself) despite the fact that it sits on top of an incredibly convenient subway system and is located in the most congested part of the city, traffic-wise.
2. Almost no one actually brings their lunch to work. In an office of about 50, I think I’ve only seen five of us in the break room eating food from home.
3. The first couple of times my boss saw me with my lunch, he started laughing uncontrollably. When I made the comment that I’ve got a mortgage to pay, he joked that he was getting foreclosed on because of his lunch habit. (I want to stop to say that my boss has been super great and has been nothing but kind and funny to me. I just never had my lunch laughed at before)
On the flip side, the company itself is pretty mustachian. It reimburses everyone who takes the metro for work, pays for part of our gym memberships, and provides a good amount of healthy snacks (fruit, granola bars, trail mix, oatmeal, etc.) And despite the lunch habits, it appears that most of my coworkers are happy to drink the free office coffee instead of visiting the coffee shop in the lobby like other folks on this board, so win some lose some.
Also bummed to learn that I don’t qualify for the match my first year. Still worth it for the $10k pay bump though, haha.
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Co worker has a 700 dollar truck payment and talks about how he’s trying to buy a house currently. He makes 2000 dollars a month. SMH
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We have a work "for sale" email distribution list. Sometimes has some great deals like the free leaf blower I got because the guy got tired of using an extension cord and bought a battery powered one.
Sometimes wedding rings and engagement rings show up on it too..
But the one that blew me away recently was the one for a used refrigerator for $2400. Seeing it was a standard size I read on, shocked and fascinated. Apparently it's was $4000 new. They say it has "all the bells and whistles" but didn't seem particularly flashy except a little excessively doored. (French door with two bottom drawers ).
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Oh I've finally got one! My wife's union has been out of contract for a couple years, so she hasn't gotten even a COL raise since negotiations started. I personally think that sucks, and is a bit ridiculous. But one of her coworkers sent an email to the CEO and everyone else complaining that she is looking for other jobs and moonlighting because she can't afford anything. She sent a detailed chart showing how her out-of-pocket healthcare expenses have gone from around 2% of income to 6% over the last decade. Without commenting on whether 6% is too much, a quick google tells me that the average in the US is around 15%. And this lady makes 2-3x the average household income in our county. And apparently she just moved to San Francisco from the suburbs. So while I do wish the employer was doing the right thing, the whole tone of the email came off incredibly spoiled and out of touch.
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We have a work "for sale" email distribution list. Sometimes has some great deals like the free leaf blower I got because the guy got tired of using an extension cord and bought a battery powered one.
Sometimes wedding rings and engagement rings show up on it too..
But the one that blew me away recently was the one for a used refrigerator for $2400. Seeing it was a standard size I read on, shocked and fascinated. Apparently it's was $4000 new. They say it has "all the bells and whistles" but didn't seem particularly flashy except a little excessively doored. (French door with two bottom drawers ).
I can only wonder what they replaced it with assuming this was part of an upgrade. .
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But the one that blew me away recently was the one for a used refrigerator for $2400. Seeing it was a standard size I read on, shocked and fascinated. Apparently it's was $4000 new. They say it has "all the bells and whistles" but didn't seem particularly flashy except a little excessively doored. (French door with two bottom drawers ).
Our most recent rental came with a fancy refrigerator. I opened it up and was completely startled because I thought I had broken the door!
The door handle has a special feature. If you grip it one way it door opens normally. If you grip it a different way, the door opens but the shelves "attached" to the door stay in place. Never seen that before!
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**Co worker has a 700 dollar truck payment and talks about how he’s trying to buy a house currently. He makes 2000 dollars a month. SMH **
Ha ha, when i had a car payment like that , i called it my "Second Mortgage" . But the bright spot was I had already purchased a house [payment] before buying the vehicle.
You may want to tell your co-worker, this is generally a better order in which to finance things. Roof over your head 1st, then luxuries....
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But the one that blew me away recently was the one for a used refrigerator for $2400. Seeing it was a standard size I read on, shocked and fascinated. Apparently it's was $4000 new. They say it has "all the bells and whistles" but didn't seem particularly flashy except a little excessively doored. (French door with two bottom drawers ).
Our most recent rental came with a fancy refrigerator. I opened it up and was completely startled because I thought I had broken the door!
The door handle has a special feature. If you grip it one way it door opens normally. If you grip it a different way, the door opens but the shelves "attached" to the door stay in place. Never seen that before!
I’m really into the ones where you knock and a light comes on so you can see what’s inside. Not to buy for myself, but pretty novel at friends house. I can only imagine the window is terrible for efficiency
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**Co worker has a 700 dollar truck payment and talks about how he’s trying to buy a house currently. He makes 2000 dollars a month. SMH **
Ha ha, when i had a car payment like that , i called it my "Second Mortgage" . But the bright spot was I had already purchased a house [payment] before buying the vehicle.
You may want to tell your co-worker, this is generally a better order in which to finance things. Roof over your head 1st, then luxuries....
You silly!!! A big, huge, shiny, MANLY truck ***IS*** a necessity. How else would his coworkers know he's manly?
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The tall Texan household is now into week seven with no car payments, but the tax bill that was due hasn't allowed us to properly enjoy it, yet. I cannot imagine having a $700 one.
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**Co worker has a 700 dollar truck payment and talks about how he’s trying to buy a house currently. He makes 2000 dollars a month. SMH **
Ha ha, when i had a car payment like that , i called it my "Second Mortgage" . But the bright spot was I had already purchased a house [payment] before buying the vehicle.
You may want to tell your co-worker, this is generally a better order in which to finance things. Roof over your head 1st, then luxuries....
You silly!!! A big, huge, shiny, MANLY truck ***IS*** a necessity. How else would his coworkers know he's manly?
Maybe a set of those horrid plastic-rubber "truck-Nutz" scrotum things hanging off the back of his used Prius ?
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acquaintance has 7 TVS, hubbie bought a $400 LIGHT saber for halloween (for him to use), they bought new SUV,
she got temporary raise for 3 months, and took her infant son and in-laws to LAS Vegas to blow the $
Seven tvs? How big is their house? I live in a 3-bed, Kitchen + Living room. If I place a tv in each room, that's 5. I guess I could add a tv in the bathroom = 6. Maybe another in the basement?
TV en banos is becoming a "feature" in homes being sold in my area.
Need an angry shit: switch to <crazy news channel>
Need a relaxing one: switch to channel showing beautiful landscapes and nature
Sorted!
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Don't forget the deck/porch and the garage. I didn't know that outside deck TVs were a thing for a long time. My brain kept repeating "theft risk" followed by "water damage". I don't know - I guess alot of people leave $350+ stainless steel BBQ grilles outside too.
Outdoor TVs are actually a thing - they're expensive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uiSq6KLhqU
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Last year many of my colleagues (and me) were on strike due to proposed changes to our pension. The amount of people who didn't strike for even one day because they couldn't afford to lose even a single day's pay was astonishing. Their choice if they don't want to strike but to be living so close to the bone that you can't afford it for even one day is scary.
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I can sympathize with the wanting to cut expenses, and the problem with not being able to understanding these complex plans. I don't think you really know how much coverage you have until you have to use it. The brochures and marketing make it sound like you have great coverage, the small print has all the limitations, and exceptions.
I heard a similar story this morning from a colleague who's son (University grad so not dumb) called his cell phone service provider to get a better/cheaper monthly plan. They offered a new plan which he got and now pays $15 less per month. The next month after he changed he received a $1000 plus invoice from the service provider. Apparently changing the package even though it was with the same service provider for the same contract term triggered the "buy out" at full retail cost of his phone. If he had known that he would not have switched. He is in the process of trying to get this reversed and go back to his original plan. So far he is getting the run around told they are investigating.
I think he made a bad decision when he picked out the "FREE" IPhone and signed up for a long term contract in person at the service provider store. However, I think it is pretty shady for the service provider to not provide the details or warning that changing the plan would trigger such a large expense. It's one thing to sign a contract in person with the paper in front of you, but just talking on the phone to the company there is no way you can see the small print or know the impacts of what they are offering you unless they tell you.
I got an update to this one from my co-worker. Turns out after hours and hours of calling and talking to a bunch of supervisors his son was able to roll-back to his original plan and they reversed the buyout of his phone. They even admitted their mistake ,but didn't offer to doing anything to make up for it other than reinstating the original plan. He even found out that the new contract they had wrongfully signed him up for was going to give him another new phone (again with a high buyout). The first solution they offered was he just sell one of the phones himself. They must be able to get away doing this with a number of clients who just give up and stop fighting. I assume this is what happens when a company uses incentives for selling products to their support/call centre staff rather than helping clients. My co-worker and son are going out of their way to tell everyone they know not to do business with this company. Being one of the large Canadian Telco companies I am sure they are not too worried about their customer service levels or profit focused business practices.
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Being one of the large Canadian Telco companies I am sure they are not too worried about their customer service levels or profit focused business practices.
I'm cynical about them all. When I lost my phone I got no help from my company. They only cared when I switched providers - too late, I'll check you out when this contract expires in 2 years.
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I bring my lunch to work every day in a plastic grocery sack.
Today my boss said, "Here's solon and his homeless lunch bag!" (Meaning, the kind of lunch bag a homeless person would carry.)
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I bring my lunch to work every day in a plastic grocery sack.
Today my boss said, "Here's solon and his homeless lunch bag!" (Meaning, the kind of lunch bag a homeless person would carry.)
I was reusing empty milk bags for my lunch for a while and got the same type of comment. I am now using a reusable fabric bag I had lying around so nobody comments, but if something in my lunch leaks it more of a pain and I can't just throw out my lunch bag like I did in the past. Peer pressure why did I let it affect me? Keep using your grocery sack Solon!
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I bring my lunch to work every day in a plastic grocery sack.
Today my boss said, "Here's solon and his homeless lunch bag!" (Meaning, the kind of lunch bag a homeless person would carry.)
Hmmmm, I dunno, a plastic bag is kind of sad. I carry my lunch to work in a leather shoulder bag that DW got me for Christmas. My buddy carries his lunch to work in a plastic bag and gives me grief constantly because I wear a "purse." The plastic bag is apparently the masculine option.
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I bring my lunch to work every day in a plastic grocery sack.
Today my boss said, "Here's solon and his homeless lunch bag!" (Meaning, the kind of lunch bag a homeless person would carry.)
I was reusing empty milk bags for my lunch for a while and got the same type of comment. I am now using a reusable fabric bag I had lying around so nobody comments, but if something in my lunch leaks it more of a pain and I can't just throw out my lunch bag like I did in the past. Peer pressure why did I let it affect me? Keep using your grocery sack Solon!
Can you line the fabric bag with a milk bag? That way if something leaks you can just throw away the liner bag.
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A co-worker was talking about how they might get rid of their one car, since they live in a walk-able area with good transit.
"We would save about $400/month without the car payment or insurance, so we could spend that on whatever we wanted!"
Oh, so close.
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I bring my lunch to work every day in a plastic grocery sack.
Today my boss said, "Here's solon and his homeless lunch bag!" (Meaning, the kind of lunch bag a homeless person would carry.)
I was reusing empty milk bags for my lunch for a while and got the same type of comment. I am now using a reusable fabric bag I had lying around so nobody comments, but if something in my lunch leaks it more of a pain and I can't just throw out my lunch bag like I did in the past. Peer pressure why did I let it affect me? Keep using your grocery sack Solon!
Can you line the fabric bag with a milk bag? That way if something leaks you can just throw away the liner bag.
@techwiz - I have to ask: What the heck is a "milk bag"? (I guess it seems obvious, but I've never heard of it.)
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Thank you for asking. The only milk bags I know of are the small freezer bags for nursing mothers who pump.
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In many parts of Canada, including Ontario, milk is packaged in bags; there's an exterior plastic bag (that's smaller than a plastic grocery bag) and within that bag are 3 plastic pouches of milk, for a total content of 4 litres of milk. You buy a reusuable jug into which you insert one pouch at a time. You can read more about it, and more importantly, get a visual, here: https://www.foodnetwork.ca/shows/great-canadian-cookbook/blog/why-do-canadians-drink-bagged-milk/ (https://www.foodnetwork.ca/shows/great-canadian-cookbook/blog/why-do-canadians-drink-bagged-milk/)
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In many parts of Canada, including Ontario, milk is packaged in bags; there's an exterior plastic bag (that's smaller than a plastic grocery bag) and within that bag are 3 plastic pouches of milk, for a total content of 4 litres of milk. You buy a reusuable jug into which you insert one pouch at a time. You can read more about it, and more importantly, get a visual, here: https://www.foodnetwork.ca/shows/great-canadian-cookbook/blog/why-do-canadians-drink-bagged-milk/ (https://www.foodnetwork.ca/shows/great-canadian-cookbook/blog/why-do-canadians-drink-bagged-milk/)
We had milk bladders on my submarine. They fit into a dispenser, but the nipple was always exposed to room temperature.
I lived in Ottawa for two years and never encountered milk bags or bladders there. Then again, I may have gone the entire two years without drinking milk.
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Interesting!
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Drink it straight from the cow like a real badass
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"milk bag"?
Google "Danny Green" and "milk bag" to see (a) how odd other folks find our milk bags and (b) how apparently invested we are in them as a symbol of Canadian-ness!
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I bring my lunch to work every day in a plastic grocery sack.
Today my boss said, "Here's solon and his homeless lunch bag!" (Meaning, the kind of lunch bag a homeless person would carry.)
Got plenty of people at my work site (govt buildings) who bring food and beverages in "homeless lunch bag". Many of them make over 100k in a MCOL area.
The plastic bag is efficient, tie up your waste in it end of day and chuck it in the huge trashcans or trash bins before you go home. You don't want to leave trash in an uncovered bin here.
We don't have cleaning crews due to the nature and sensitivity of data in the workplace. Each person is responsible for keeping his/her area clean, common areas we all take turns or work together and clean up in <10 mins every other week.
I use a lunch cooler bag, but fuck those uppity people who call a plastic grocery bag a homeless bag.
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@techwiz - I have to ask: What the heck is a "milk bag"? (I guess it seems obvious, but I've never heard of it.)
(https://junkdrawer67.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/milk-bag.jpg)
(https://resources.salewhale.ca/products_sales_images/retailer_3/2016-04-28/p1_1461830559.2269/4l-bag-sealtest.jpg) cheapest way to buy milk up here in Canada. Unless of course you have your own cow but then the feeding and vet bills really add up.
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Drink it straight from the cow like a real badass
I did that once, mostly. I went to an agricultural fair in Paris long ago and one of the displays was a cow that got milked in front of us. I whipped out my empty water bottle and got it filled with milk fresh and warm directly from the source.
It tasted delicious. My gastrointestinal tract was most displeased.
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Drink it straight from the cow like a real badass
I did that once, mostly. I went to an agricultural fair in Paris long ago and one of the displays was a cow that got milked in front of us. I whipped out my empty water bottle and got it filled with milk fresh and warm directly from the source.
It tasted delicious. My gastrointestinal tract was most displeased.
You gotta pasture-ize the cow first
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I bring my lunch to work every day in a plastic grocery sack.
Today my boss said, "Here's solon and his homeless lunch bag!" (Meaning, the kind of lunch bag a homeless person would carry.)
I not only carry my lunch in a plastic bag- I use the same plastic bag everyday. I haven’t received any negative comments and don’t think i will. My coworkers and bosses are generally fairly sensible and polite.
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I'm really confused about why putting your lunch in a plastic bag is weird. I usually bring leftovers in a tupperware container that I wrap in a plastic shopping bag in case something leaks. The alternative would be to use a new ziplock, I guess? Why would I do that when I already have a perfectly good bag to be reused and kept out of the landfill/ocean/belly of a whale?
Or do you mean that you're putting leftovers directly into an old plastic bag? I probably wouldn't do that, mostly because I have to imagine a reused shopping bag isn't super sanitary. Eating last night's spaghetti directly out of a plastic shopping bag from the bodega somehow seems like a bridge too far for me personally. A food grade milk bag might be different, though.
So tell us more about your bag usage. I'm leaning toward "not weird," but need to know more.
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I'm really confused about why putting your lunch in a plastic bag is weird. I usually bring leftovers in a tupperware container that I wrap in a plastic shopping bag in case something leaks. The alternative would be to use a new ziplock, I guess? Why would I do that when I already have a perfectly good bag to be reused and kept out of the landfill/ocean/belly of a whale?
Or do you mean that you're putting leftovers directly into an old plastic bag? I probably wouldn't do that, mostly because I have to imagine a reused shopping bag isn't super sanitary. Eating last night's spaghetti directly out of a plastic shopping bag from the bodega somehow seems like a bridge too far for me personally. A food grade milk bag might be different, though.
So tell us more about your bag usage. I'm leaning toward "not weird," but need to know more.
The alternative to a plastic grocery sack would be a lunch box. The ones I've seen are big - bigger than a 6-pack - and insulated, so they take up a lot of space in the fridge. They're reusable, which is an advantage over a grocery sack. But you'd have to use a lot of grocery sacks to equal the cost of a lunch box.
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A food grade milk bag might be different, though.
As someone else who uses milk bags,. . . that's exactly it. It's food grade plastic. It's not your usual plastic bags. My grandmother would cut open the tops of the milk bags, wash them out thoroughly, and then use them as freezer bags. They work quite well (honestly, the plastic is a bit heavier then usual commercial freezer bags which is nice), and if you're worried about freezer burn, a twist tie or elastic seals them up nicely.
So, I'm lucky enough to have never bought a freezer bag/sandwich bag in my life. It's always been re-used milk bags. (Thank you, Nani!)
You can wash/reuse the milk bags relatively indefinitely (the only time I don't re-use them is if they've had raw meat or such packed in them, because I'm not sure I'd get that clean enough).
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I'm really confused about why putting your lunch in a plastic bag is weird. I usually bring leftovers in a tupperware container that I wrap in a plastic shopping bag in case something leaks. The alternative would be to use a new ziplock, I guess? Why would I do that when I already have a perfectly good bag to be reused and kept out of the landfill/ocean/belly of a whale?
Or do you mean that you're putting leftovers directly into an old plastic bag? I probably wouldn't do that, mostly because I have to imagine a reused shopping bag isn't super sanitary. Eating last night's spaghetti directly out of a plastic shopping bag from the bodega somehow seems like a bridge too far for me personally. A food grade milk bag might be different, though.
So tell us more about your bag usage. I'm leaning toward "not weird," but need to know more.
The alternative to a plastic grocery sack would be a lunch box. The ones I've seen are big - bigger than a 6-pack - and insulated, so they take up a lot of space in the fridge. They're reusable, which is an advantage over a grocery sack. But you'd have to use a lot of grocery sacks to equal the cost of a lunch box.
Simple basic lunch boxes aren't a thing there? Everyone I know has one. Reusing bread bags is definitely something I do when I don't want to carry around an empty lunch box, but when there are multiple family members taking lunch to work/school you're bound to run out of bags.
I have owned the same lunch box for 10 years and I'm sure it cost less than €10. It's similar to this one https://www.wehkamp.nl/mepal-take-a-break-lunchbox-midi-16041548/?CC=C23&SC=BTS&KAC=BRT&artikelNummer=233154&MaatCode=0000&BC=GOA&BAC=ALG&cm_mmc_o=7BBTkwCjC-kTwFwwECVyBpAgfkblfbETzplCjCPyBBpfyBFFwkC1AEgtCCjCoxnNNvDS&scid=scplp862331540000&sc_intid=862331540000&gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItNno-erb4QIV6LvtCh1cQQRmEAQYASABEgJ5jvD_BwE&NavState=%7B"fi"%3A%7B"p_MRK"%3A%5B"mepal"%5D%7D%7D&PI=001 and roughly the size of a book. It's not insulated but I don't need that. When I eat a hot lunch I heat it in the microwave.
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I got a really cute plastic bento box style lunch box at IKEA about 5 years ago for 5 euro. I use it nearly every day and it's good as you can separate out the various things you bring. I usually put salad in one half, cheese or ham in another section and something like olives or leftover chicken etc in the other section. I have crackers, yoghurt, nuts etc at work and I also bring fruit. If you have IKEA where you live, Solon, I'd recommend this kind of lunch box.
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In many parts of Canada, including Ontario, milk is packaged in bags; there's an exterior plastic bag (that's smaller than a plastic grocery bag) and within that bag are 3 plastic pouches of milk, for a total content of 4 litres of milk. You buy a reusuable jug into which you insert one pouch at a time. You can read more about it, and more importantly, get a visual, here: https://www.foodnetwork.ca/shows/great-canadian-cookbook/blog/why-do-canadians-drink-bagged-milk/ (https://www.foodnetwork.ca/shows/great-canadian-cookbook/blog/why-do-canadians-drink-bagged-milk/)
They are available in IA, MN, and WI, too, at the convenience store/gas station/cum-supermarket chain Kwik Trip. Have been since at least the early 90s.
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They are available in IA, MN, and WI, too, at the convenience store/gas station/cum-supermarket chain Kwik Trip. Have been since at least the early 90s.
Live in Minnesota, can confirm. Actually, this is a sore spot in my parents' marriage. My mom loves bagged milk because it's cheap, my dad thinks the bags are weird and difficult to use. (They do have the special pitchers, Dad just doesn't like them.)
So Mom will occasionally buy cartons of milk, and then rinse those out to pour bagged milk into. This is also the woman who would put store-brand cereal in brand-name cereal boxes.
Yes, I have trust issues, why do you ask?
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So Mom will occasionally buy cartons of milk, and then rinse those out to pour bagged milk into. This is also the woman who would put store-brand cereal in brand-name cereal boxes.
It is a well known fact of psychology that wine tastes better when it comes out of an expensive bottle, even if it is the same bottle and you just tell the people it was expensive instead of telling them it was cheap.
Putting cheap stuff into an expensive box is the fast and way of getting expensive-tasting stuff on your table ;)
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Drink it straight from the cow like a real badass
I did that once, mostly. I went to an agricultural fair in Paris long ago and one of the displays was a cow that got milked in front of us. I whipped out my empty water bottle and got it filled with milk fresh and warm directly from the source.
It tasted delicious. My gastrointestinal tract was most displeased.
You gotta pasture-ize the cow first
Ha!
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I bring my lunch to work every day in a plastic grocery sack.
Today my boss said, "Here's solon and his homeless lunch bag!" (Meaning, the kind of lunch bag a homeless person would carry.)
Hmmmm, I dunno, a plastic bag is kind of sad. I carry my lunch to work in a leather shoulder bag that DW got me for Christmas. My buddy carries his lunch to work in a plastic bag and gives me grief constantly because I wear a "purse." The plastic bag is apparently the masculine option.
So get a flannel lunch bag - duh! /s
Also, you could sell the car and ride the cow to work...
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I bring my lunch to work every day in a plastic grocery sack.
Today my boss said, "Here's solon and his homeless lunch bag!" (Meaning, the kind of lunch bag a homeless person would carry.)
Hmmmm, I dunno, a plastic bag is kind of sad. I carry my lunch to work in a leather shoulder bag that DW got me for Christmas. My buddy carries his lunch to work in a plastic bag and gives me grief constantly because I wear a "purse." The plastic bag is apparently the masculine option.
So get a flannel lunch bag - duh! /s
Also, you could sell the car and ride the cow to work...
I was thinking canvas seems more manly, so on a whim I Googled Carhartt lunch box, and sure enough: https://www.carhartt.com/products/carhartt-black-friday-bags-sale/Deluxe-Lunch-Cooler-358100B?selectedAttribute=7000000000000000005_7000000000000000105
I like that at the top it clarifies that this is a unisex lunch box, just in case there are questions.
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They are available in IA, MN, and WI, too, at the convenience store/gas station/cum-supermarket chain Kwik Trip. Have been since at least the early 90s.
Live in Minnesota, can confirm. Actually, this is a sore spot in my parents' marriage. My mom loves bagged milk because it's cheap, my dad thinks the bags are weird and difficult to use. (They do have the special pitchers, Dad just doesn't like them.)
So Mom will occasionally buy cartons of milk, and then rinse those out to pour bagged milk into. This is also the woman who would put store-brand cereal in brand-name cereal boxes.
Yes, I have trust issues, why do you ask?
Are these bags refrigerated? I know in South America they use the bags, but it's usually ultra-pasteurized and shelf-stable. Not refrigerated.
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They are available in IA, MN, and WI, too, at the convenience store/gas station/cum-supermarket chain Kwik Trip. Have been since at least the early 90s.
Live in Minnesota, can confirm. Actually, this is a sore spot in my parents' marriage. My mom loves bagged milk because it's cheap, my dad thinks the bags are weird and difficult to use. (They do have the special pitchers, Dad just doesn't like them.)
So Mom will occasionally buy cartons of milk, and then rinse those out to pour bagged milk into. This is also the woman who would put store-brand cereal in brand-name cereal boxes.
Yes, I have trust issues, why do you ask?
Are these bags refrigerated? I know in South America they use the bags, but it's usually ultra-pasteurized and shelf-stable. Not refrigerated.
No, the ultra-pasteurized comes in cartons. Bagged milk has to be refrigerated.
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I bring my lunch to work every day in a plastic grocery sack.
Today my boss said, "Here's solon and his homeless lunch bag!" (Meaning, the kind of lunch bag a homeless person would carry.)
Hmmmm, I dunno, a plastic bag is kind of sad. I carry my lunch to work in a leather shoulder bag that DW got me for Christmas. My buddy carries his lunch to work in a plastic bag and gives me grief constantly because I wear a "purse." The plastic bag is apparently the masculine option.
So get a flannel lunch bag - duh! /s
Also, you could sell the car and ride the cow to work...
I was thinking canvas seems more manly, so on a whim I Googled Carhartt lunch box, and sure enough: https://www.carhartt.com/products/carhartt-black-friday-bags-sale/Deluxe-Lunch-Cooler-358100B?selectedAttribute=7000000000000000005_7000000000000000105
I like that at the top it clarifies that this is a unisex lunch box, just in case there are questions.
Good thing they clarified because lunch is such a gendered activity.....
~eye roll~
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I bring my lunch to work every day in a plastic grocery sack.
Today my boss said, "Here's solon and his homeless lunch bag!" (Meaning, the kind of lunch bag a homeless person would carry.)
I do the same thing. I use the sack until it develops a hole, then use the next sack.
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This milk bags thing could have gone a whole different way, but for the good taste of mustachians!
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I bring my lunch to work every day in a plastic grocery sack.
Today my boss said, "Here's solon and his homeless lunch bag!" (Meaning, the kind of lunch bag a homeless person would carry.)
I do the same thing. I use the sack until it develops a hole, then use the next sack.
Put a straw in the sack dear solon dear solon
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A couple of weeks ago (Apr 8th) there was a new employee hired at my IT/computer company. He sits two desks down from me. His first week was a roller coaster because he had planned baseball games as the coach for his son's team. The days he worked he made up for missing the times he couldnt work pulling 12 hour days when he could. Couldn't take the days off financially (I would assume)
This weekend:
New Coworker: What did you do this weekend?
Me: Hung out with my parents & sister-n-law's parents for Easter
New Coworker: I bought a brand new $70,000 RV.
Me: <Confused><Thinking>
New Coworker: <Showing pictures to me and the other coworkers>
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That one has lots of confidence in his future at your company... Perhaps he could have waited six months to see how it likes the company and how the company likes him.
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A couple of weeks ago (Apr 8th) there was a new employee hired at my IT/computer company. He sits two desks down from me. His first week was a roller coaster because he had planned baseball games as the coach for his son's team. The days he worked he made up for missing the times he couldnt work pulling 12 hour days when he could. Couldn't take the days off financially (I would assume)
This weekend:
New Coworker: What did you do this weekend?
Me: Hung out with my parents & sister-n-law's parents for Easter
New Coworker: I bought a brand new $70,000 RV.
Me: <Confused><Thinking>
New Coworker: <Showing pictures to me and the other coworkers>
Did "New Coworker" announce that it was $70k RV? Or that he bought a new RV and you happen to know that it was $70k? 'Cos the latter is cringeworthy, but the former is truly ugly.
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Did "New Coworker" announce that it was $70k RV? Or that he bought a new RV and you happen to know that it was $70k? 'Cos the latter is cringeworthy, but the former is truly ugly.
The new coworker announced that it was a $70k RV and stated it was the cheapest that the dealership offered.
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A couple of weeks ago (Apr 8th) there was a new employee hired at my IT/computer company. He sits two desks down from me. His first week was a roller coaster because he had planned baseball games as the coach for his son's team. The days he worked he made up for missing the times he couldnt work pulling 12 hour days when he could. Couldn't take the days off financially (I would assume)
See, I would assume that as a new employee he wanted not to slack off on his first week, while still keeping the promise he had made to his son and the rest of the team.
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Co-worker told me she met a financial advisor. He suggested she take a loan against her 401(K), and invest it in making hard money loans to real estate developers in a metro area about 100 miles west of us. I told her to run away.
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@techwiz - I have to ask: What the heck is a "milk bag"? (I guess it seems obvious, but I've never heard of it.)
(https://junkdrawer67.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/milk-bag.jpg)
(https://resources.salewhale.ca/products_sales_images/retailer_3/2016-04-28/p1_1461830559.2269/4l-bag-sealtest.jpg) cheapest way to buy milk up here in Canada. Unless of course you have your own cow but then the feeding and vet bills really add up.
Man, I miss living in Ontario. When I had a child in diapers (we used washable cloth diapers), I would never leave the house without an array of cut-open milk bags in which to store the wet diapers. Perfect size.
Although admittedly on my first day in Ontario I had a very confused look on my face when I asked the supermarket clerk what people put the milk in. After a very conspicuous eye-roll, he pointed to a plastic jug just like the one above.
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Co-worker told me she met a financial advisor. He suggested she take a loan against her 401(K), and invest it in making hard money loans to real estate developers in a metro area about 100 miles west of us. I told her to run away.
Wow! That is horrifyingly bad advice!
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One of my co-workers (about 50 years old) is about to buy a home. He just emigrated here and is correctly renting a home. The and his wife have money from selling their previous home. So far, so good.
He talked to a bank to get a preapproval for a mortgage, which is something you need here to make an offer on a home. The bank was presenting him the option of the flexi-mortgage. This is just an amount of credit that the bank gives you, based on the value of your home and you need to pay it back on a certain date, e.g. after 30 years. You need to pay a monthly interest, but you can decide not to pay that fee for several months as often as you like. As long as you pay it in the end with all the extra interest. You can also take out a big sum when the mortgage is partly paid down, to buy a car or a new kitchen, and just use the same mortgage. The mortgage has a higher interest rate than a traditional mortgage.
My co-worker thinks this sounds as a good alternative. He likes to be able to not pay the monthly interest for some months and then catch up later when he receives a lump sum out of a savings fund.
From me he just wanted to know whether this was something safe to bet on. I have heard a sincere financial expert speaking about this type of mortgage, who said it was a good alternative for people who are financially responsible, something my co-worker says he is.
I really had to keep my mouth shut for the rest of my thoughts. I would not get a mortgage with higher interest than necessary. I would also not choose to not pay the monthly fee for some months, because that means paying extra interest later. I really had to keep in mind that for my co-worker, it might be a good alternative, even though it means he won't be paying down his mortgage any time soon.
The good thing is that the bank has pre-qualified him for a mortgage that is twice as high as he asked for and he is not planning to get such a high mortgage. Good for him.
Reading this I felt like you were both bobbling an active hand grenade. So many dangerous decisions available. Hopefully it works out great.
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Co-worker told me she met a financial advisor. He suggested she take a loan against her 401(K), and invest it in making hard money loans to real estate developers in a metro area about 100 miles west of us. I told her to run away.
Wow! That is horrifyingly bad advice!
WTF? i always ask ppl if they act as a fiduciary
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Co-worker told me she met a financial advisor. He suggested she take a loan against her 401(K), and invest it in making hard money loans to real estate developers in a metro area about 100 miles west of us. I told her to run away.
Wow! That is horrifyingly bad advice!
WTF? i always ask ppl if they act as a fiduciary
I would suggest that you get it in writing that they are acting on your behalf as a fiduciary. If they won't do that, run. If they don't know what you're talking about, run.
And, honestly, probably best to just run anyway. Plenty of good advice available elsewhere.
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Co-worker told me she met a financial advisor. He suggested she take a loan against her 401(K), and invest it in making hard money loans to real estate developers in a metro area about 100 miles west of us. I told her to run away.
Wow! That is horrifyingly bad advice!
WTF? i always ask ppl if they act as a fiduciary
I would suggest that you get it in writing that they are acting on your behalf as a fiduciary. If they won't do that, run. If they don't know what you're talking about, run.
And, honestly, probably best to just run anyway. Plenty of good advice available elsewhere.
If you want some non fiduciary advice, start here: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/top-is-in/
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I would suggest that you get it in writing that they are acting on your behalf as a fiduciary. If they won't do that, run. If they don't know what you're talking about, run.
And, honestly, probably best to just run anyway. Plenty of good advice available elsewhere.
I talked with a financial adviser that charged 2% fees who said they were a fiduciary. Not saying they aren't, it wasn't like they steered people into high commission funds or anything. The products they had were reasonable. But just the fact of charging 2% seems unfiduciary like.
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“Unfiduciary like” is mild.
“Highway robbery” is more accurate.
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I would suggest that you get it in writing that they are acting on your behalf as a fiduciary. If they won't do that, run. If they don't know what you're talking about, run.
And, honestly, probably best to just run anyway. Plenty of good advice available elsewhere.
I talked with a financial adviser that charged 2% fees who said they were a fiduciary. Not saying they aren't, it wasn't like they steered people into high commission funds or anything. The products they had were reasonable. But just the fact of charging 2% seems unfiduciary like.
If these are upfront management fees and not hidden fund fees, there’s nothing unfiduciarylike about it. Advisors need to make money, so better full disclosure how you make it instead of simply steering people towards shady products. Anyone who doesn’t feel they are worth the fee can easily avoid signing up
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I would suggest that you get it in writing that they are acting on your behalf as a fiduciary. If they won't do that, run. If they don't know what you're talking about, run.
And, honestly, probably best to just run anyway. Plenty of good advice available elsewhere.
I talked with a financial adviser that charged 2% fees who said they were a fiduciary. Not saying they aren't, it wasn't like they steered people into high commission funds or anything. The products they had were reasonable. But just the fact of charging 2% seems unfiduciary like.
If these are upfront management fees and not hidden fund fees, there’s nothing unfiduciarylike about it. Advisors need to make money, so better full disclosure how you make it instead of simply steering people towards shady products. Anyone who doesn’t feel they are worth the fee can easily avoid signing up
I don't know about that -- a 2% drag on one's portfolio is very hard to overcome, and no advisor, fiduciary or not, is going to beat the market by 2% with any consistency, if at all. I get your point, but 2% is a red flag. Better to find a fee-only fiduciary that charges set rates for various services.
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Co-worker told me she met a financial advisor. He suggested she take a loan against her 401(K), and invest it in making hard money loans to real estate developers in a metro area about 100 miles west of us. I told her to run away.
Wow! That is horrifyingly bad advice!
+1mil
Holy shit! I think this is the worst financial advise I've ever heard from a professional.
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I would suggest that you get it in writing that they are acting on your behalf as a fiduciary. If they won't do that, run. If they don't know what you're talking about, run.
And, honestly, probably best to just run anyway. Plenty of good advice available elsewhere.
I talked with a financial adviser that charged 2% fees who said they were a fiduciary. Not saying they aren't, it wasn't like they steered people into high commission funds or anything. The products they had were reasonable. But just the fact of charging 2% seems unfiduciary like.
If these are upfront management fees and not hidden fund fees, there’s nothing unfiduciarylike about it. Advisors need to make money, so better full disclosure how you make it instead of simply steering people towards shady products. Anyone who doesn’t feel they are worth the fee can easily avoid signing up
I don't know about that -- a 2% drag on one's portfolio is very hard to overcome, and no advisor, fiduciary or not, is going to beat the market by 2% with any consistency, if at all. I get your point, but 2% is a red flag. Better to find a fee-only fiduciary that charges set rates for various services.
It’s not an offer I would take up, but being a fiduciary is about loyalty, not raw profits. There is a class of clients who would probably pay 2% for the right level of service (something beyond VTSAX, possibly with access to private equity). Consider that you might pay 10% of rents to someone to manage your real estate holdings. At the 2% rule that works out to be around 2% of your holdings.
For 2% I’d expect more “wealth management” than “financial advice”
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For 2% I’d expect more “wealth management” than “financial advice”
For 2% I'd expect the Philosopher's Stone and Fountain of Youth.
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Finally got one to share.
I gave my boss a ride home from a group lunch this afternoon. He recently purchased a new construction townhome close to work. Some snooping on Zillow indicates it likely is in the $1.4-1.8M range. Expensive, but fairly average for our area. On the car ride over he talked about his second house in China (he came over for work a couple of years ago). His first house in China is apparently rented and he didn't mention what it is worth, but the second house, which sits empty, is worth 15M RMB. At current exchange rates that is about $2.3M US, though the figure he used in our conversation was $3M. Regardless, the point is the same. He has a multi-million dollar asset that sits unoccupied most of the time except for when his mother-in-law wants to visit the city where it is located on occasion.
I half-jokingly suggested he could sell the second house and retire tomorrow. He said he would be bored.
The up side is that I shared this with a coworker who expressed the opinion that he isn't going to work a day more than he has to, and that our boss is a case of failure of imagination.
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Finally got one to share.
I gave my boss a ride home from a group lunch this afternoon. He recently purchased a new construction townhome close to work. Some snooping on Zillow indicates it likely is in the $1.4-1.8M range. Expensive, but fairly average for our area. On the car ride over he talked about his second house in China (he came over for work a couple of years ago). His first house in China is apparently rented and he didn't mention what it is worth, but the second house, which sits empty, is worth 15M RMB. At current exchange rates that is about $2.3M US, though the figure he used in our conversation was $3M. Regardless, the point is the same. He has a multi-million dollar asset that sits unoccupied most of the time except for when his mother-in-law wants to visit the city where it is located on occasion.
I half-jokingly suggested he could sell the second house and retire tomorrow. He said he would be bored.
The up side is that I shared this with a coworker who expressed the opinion that he isn't going to work a day more than he has to, and that our boss is a case of failure of imagination.
If he's comparing to his peers with a very high $$$ reference point, he's "poor". So he needs to exist in the rat race.
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re: the 2% fiduciary. it may be worth it for a billionaire who is trying to do aggressive real estate moves: buying islands or mines or what not.
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Finally got one to share.
I gave my boss a ride home from a group lunch this afternoon. He recently purchased a new construction townhome close to work. Some snooping on Zillow indicates it likely is in the $1.4-1.8M range. Expensive, but fairly average for our area. On the car ride over he talked about his second house in China (he came over for work a couple of years ago). His first house in China is apparently rented and he didn't mention what it is worth, but the second house, which sits empty, is worth 15M RMB. At current exchange rates that is about $2.3M US, though the figure he used in our conversation was $3M. Regardless, the point is the same. He has a multi-million dollar asset that sits unoccupied most of the time except for when his mother-in-law wants to visit the city where it is located on occasion.
I half-jokingly suggested he could sell the second house and retire tomorrow. He said he would be bored.
The up side is that I shared this with a coworker who expressed the opinion that he isn't going to work a day more than he has to, and that our boss is a case of failure of imagination.
If he's comparing to his peers with a very high $$$ reference point, he's "poor". So he needs to exist in the rat race.
My first thought was: How is he able to own two homes in China? I thought that was illegal, but I think it’s only illegal in some cities. I mean, the prez of China did say that homes were for living in, not for speculation. My second thought was: It’s actually wise for him not to rent out his house, not unless he wants it completely destroyed by renters. The amount of money floating around in China in some social circles is ridiculous.
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We recently went through a contract change which resulted in several people losing their jobs. I was lucky enough to find a new job that I started after just a two-week hiatus. This past weekend I got together with a former co-worker and were discussing a mutual friend who still hasn't found a job after almost three months now. Then my co-worker said, "but OMG, she has $250K in her retirement accounts, that's amazing!" Never mind our friend is 60 and we live in a HCOL area, so that's not THAT great at all... I tried to gently remind her that that money is for retirement though, she shouldn't spend it now, but she was too flabergasted that anyone had that much money put away to acknowledge that... I just stopped trying and nodded along... She's 68 and is planning to work until at least 70 so she can get her max social security. SMH...
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Finally got one to share.
I gave my boss a ride home from a group lunch this afternoon. He recently purchased a new construction townhome close to work. Some snooping on Zillow indicates it likely is in the $1.4-1.8M range. Expensive, but fairly average for our area. On the car ride over he talked about his second house in China (he came over for work a couple of years ago). His first house in China is apparently rented and he didn't mention what it is worth, but the second house, which sits empty, is worth 15M RMB. At current exchange rates that is about $2.3M US, though the figure he used in our conversation was $3M. Regardless, the point is the same. He has a multi-million dollar asset that sits unoccupied most of the time except for when his mother-in-law wants to visit the city where it is located on occasion.
I half-jokingly suggested he could sell the second house and retire tomorrow. He said he would be bored.
The up side is that I shared this with a coworker who expressed the opinion that he isn't going to work a day more than he has to, and that our boss is a case of failure of imagination.
If he's comparing to his peers with a very high $$$ reference point, he's "poor". So he needs to exist in the rat race.
My first thought was: How is he able to own two homes in China? I thought that was illegal, but I think it’s only illegal in some cities. I mean, the prez of China did say that homes were for living in, not for speculation. My second thought was: It’s actually wise for him not to rent out his house, not unless he wants it completely destroyed by renters. The amount of money floating around in China in some social circles is ridiculous.
I have no idea how that works. You could be right but then if it were illegal, would he be talking about it do openly?
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The limit on buying second homes in China is pretty recent, not in all cities, and there are ways to get around it. Considering the value of the house, it was probably purchased many years ago.
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The limit on buying second homes in China is pretty recent, not in all cities, and there are ways to get around it. Considering the value of the house, it was probably purchased many years ago.
That could be. Or people just don't think they will get caught. My landlord owns at least four apartments in a city where it is illegal to own more than one; most of the ownership details fall in the "gray zone". Landlord frequently posts pictures and talks about all of his available units on WeChat.
The unit I live in is registered to someone else, so when I go to register at the police station, landlord told me to show someone else's ID card as the owner (they have paperwork showing this other random guy is the owner), but I pay rent to the landlord. We rented this place from an authorized, large, housing rental company, so I know things are all in the open on our end. I'm not sure (and don't want to know and probably wouldn't even understand it if it was explained to me) how things work on their end.
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I would suggest that you get it in writing that they are acting on your behalf as a fiduciary. If they won't do that, run. If they don't know what you're talking about, run.
And, honestly, probably best to just run anyway. Plenty of good advice available elsewhere.
I talked with a financial adviser that charged 2% fees who said they were a fiduciary. Not saying they aren't, it wasn't like they steered people into high commission funds or anything. The products they had were reasonable. But just the fact of charging 2% seems unfiduciary like.
If these are upfront management fees and not hidden fund fees, there’s nothing unfiduciarylike about it. Advisors need to make money, so better full disclosure how you make it instead of simply steering people towards shady products. Anyone who doesn’t feel they are worth the fee can easily avoid signing up
I don't know about that -- a 2% drag on one's portfolio is very hard to overcome, and no advisor, fiduciary or not, is going to beat the market by 2% with any consistency, if at all. I get your point, but 2% is a red flag. Better to find a fee-only fiduciary that charges set rates for various services.
It’s not an offer I would take up, but being a fiduciary is about loyalty, not raw profits. There is a class of clients who would probably pay 2% for the right level of service (something beyond VTSAX, possibly with access to private equity). Consider that you might pay 10% of rents to someone to manage your real estate holdings. At the 2% rule that works out to be around 2% of your holdings.
For 2% I’d expect more “wealth management” than “financial advice”
My mother is in this boat. The adviser has a 1% fee, suggested sound AA and target fund distribution, appropriately recommends spending strategies etc. Still, the funds recommended all have expense ratios around 0.9% to 1.2%. I replicated her portfolio with Vanguard funds at 0.11% expense and no management fee. My mom is still reluctant to move the money because her adviser is a good guy. I asked her if he was worth $4,000 a year and she seemed shocked that that was the amount of money involved. I'm still trying to get her to fire him, but she's dragging her feet.
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Young coworker was talking about getting a new car.
CW: I don’t want anything too fancy. I don’t want to stand out.
Me: That makes sense.
CW: Yeah, definitely don’t want to show off, so probably will not get...
Me: Like, a BMW or a Benz?
CW: No, what are you talking about? Those are normal cars. I was thinking I definitely won’t get a Porsche or a Lamborghini.
Me: Oh.
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Not sure to what extent this one fits better in the MPP or this thread.
Background: My coworkers know I'm a frugal person and save a lot of money (they don't know how much). We are all young, in similar life stages (no kids yet) and have fairly low salaries.
CW: "Why do you save so much money?"
Me: "Well, after all my needs are met there's just money left and I see no point in spending it now. I rather save it up for later flexibility." (didn't want to go into depth at this point, wasn't a good moment for it)
CW: "But why don't you just spend some extra?"
Me: "Well, I already spend money on all the things I want!"
CW: "You could buy yourself some nice books!"
Me: "I occasionally do buy a book.."
CW: "Then how about shoes?!"
Me: "..."
Really, why do you need to come up with spending ideas if I explicitly state all my needs are met? I don't understand how she framed my lack of spending as a 'problem' to be solved in her head.
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Not sure to what extent this one fits better in the MPP or this thread.
Background: My coworkers know I'm a frugal person and save a lot of money (they don't know how much). We are all young, in similar life stages (no kids yet) and have fairly low salaries.
CW: "Why do you save so much money?"
Me: "Well, after all my needs are met there's just money left and I see no point in spending it now. I rather save it up for later flexibility." (didn't want to go into depth at this point, wasn't a good moment for it)
CW: "But why don't you just spend some extra?"
Me: "Well, I already spend money on all the things I want!"
CW: "You could buy yourself some nice books!"
Me: "I occasionally do buy a book.."
CW: "Then how about shoes?!"
Me: "..."
Really, why do you need to come up with spending ideas if I explicitly state all my needs are met? I don't understand how she framed my lack of spending as a 'problem' to be solved in her head.
That sounds like a person who really cannot have money left in her account. It is obviously burning there to be spent. Even if it is not her own money, but yours, she still feels the urge to start spending it. That is a person who will never be able to save much. Unless she would transfer an amount to her savings account the day after receiving salary.
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I don't understand how she framed my lack of spending as a 'problem' to be solved in her head.
Than you probably haven't watched any ad or economics report in the last half century.
Yeah, I get what you are meaning, I have that same confusion quite often. For example when people talk about cars. My reaction is often: Oh, you can do that? Interesting. Why should you do that? And who the hell would pay such much money for it?
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Not sure to what extent this one fits better in the MPP or this thread.
Background: My coworkers know I'm a frugal person and save a lot of money (they don't know how much). We are all young, in similar life stages (no kids yet) and have fairly low salaries.
CW: "Why do you save so much money?"
Me: "Well, after all my needs are met there's just money left and I see no point in spending it now. I rather save it up for later flexibility." (didn't want to go into depth at this point, wasn't a good moment for it)
CW: "But why don't you just spend some extra?"
Me: "Well, I already spend money on all the things I want!"
CW: "You could buy yourself some nice books!"
Me: "I occasionally do buy a book.."
CW: "Then how about shoes?!"
Me: "..."
Really, why do you need to come up with spending ideas if I explicitly state all my needs are met? I don't understand how she framed my lack of spending as a 'problem' to be solved in her head.
Why don’t you just buy some VTSAX?
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Not sure to what extent this one fits better in the MPP or this thread.
Background: My coworkers know I'm a frugal person and save a lot of money (they don't know how much). We are all young, in similar life stages (no kids yet) and have fairly low salaries.
CW: "Why do you save so much money?"
Me: "Well, after all my needs are met there's just money left and I see no point in spending it now. I rather save it up for later flexibility." (didn't want to go into depth at this point, wasn't a good moment for it)
CW: "But why don't you just spend some extra?"
Me: "Well, I already spend money on all the things I want!"
CW: "You could buy yourself some nice books!"
Me: "I occasionally do buy a book.."
CW: "Then how about shoes?!"
Me: "..."
Really, why do you need to come up with spending ideas if I explicitly state all my needs are met? I don't understand how she framed my lack of spending as a 'problem' to be solved in her head.
This would have been a perfect opportunity to practice the "Boring Baroque Response" verbal self-defense strategy as described by Suzette Elgin:
"You know, I think it's because of something that happened to me when I was just a little kid. We were living in Detroit at the time, and... No, wait a minute! It couldn't have been Detroit, it must have been when we were living in Indianapolis, because that was the summer my Aunt Grace came to visit us and brought her dog. You know those funny little dogs with the big ears that stick out? Well, this dog...." [And so on, for as long as it takes.]"
A response like this delivers the following message: "I notice that you're here to pick a fight. Do that if you like, but it's not going to be much fun for you, because I won't play that game." Listening to a BBR is excruciatingly boring. The most usual result is that by the time you've gotten to the part about your aunt's dog the attacker is already saying, "Oh, never MIND!" and leaving in a hurry -- while making a mental note that you're no fun as a victim and shouldn't be chosen for that role in future.
https://people.howstuffworks.com/vsd2.htm (https://people.howstuffworks.com/vsd2.htm)
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That only works if the "attacker" is A) really attacking and B) understands your Gebrabbel (as we Germans say) as a defence.
Both would not be true for e.g. me.
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Not sure to what extent this one fits better in the MPP or this thread.
Background: My coworkers know I'm a frugal person and save a lot of money (they don't know how much). We are all young, in similar life stages (no kids yet) and have fairly low salaries.
CW: "Why do you save so much money?"
Me: "Well, after all my needs are met there's just money left and I see no point in spending it now. I rather save it up for later flexibility." (didn't want to go into depth at this point, wasn't a good moment for it)
CW: "But why don't you just spend some extra?"
Me: "Well, I already spend money on all the things I want!"
CW: "You could buy yourself some nice books!"
Me: "I occasionally do buy a book.."
CW: "Then how about shoes?!"
Me: "..."
Really, why do you need to come up with spending ideas if I explicitly state all my needs are met? I don't understand how she framed my lack of spending as a 'problem' to be solved in her head.
This would have been a perfect opportunity to practice the "Boring Baroque Response" verbal self-defense strategy as described by Suzette Elgin:
"You know, I think it's because of something that happened to me when I was just a little kid. We were living in Detroit at the time, and... No, wait a minute! It couldn't have been Detroit, it must have been when we were living in Indianapolis, because that was the summer my Aunt Grace came to visit us and brought her dog. You know those funny little dogs with the big ears that stick out? Well, this dog...." [And so on, for as long as it takes.]"
A response like this delivers the following message: "I notice that you're here to pick a fight. Do that if you like, but it's not going to be much fun for you, because I won't play that game." Listening to a BBR is excruciatingly boring. The most usual result is that by the time you've gotten to the part about your aunt's dog the attacker is already saying, "Oh, never MIND!" and leaving in a hurry -- while making a mental note that you're no fun as a victim and shouldn't be chosen for that role in future.
https://people.howstuffworks.com/vsd2.htm (https://people.howstuffworks.com/vsd2.htm)
OMG!!!
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That only works if the "attacker" is A) really attacking and B) understands your Gebrabbel (as we Germans say) as a defence.
Both would not be true for e.g. me.
I don't know if "CW" understands that she is attacking, but she most certainly is. She has asked a question without really wanting an answer. She is not actually interested in why Hirondelle is frugal, so answering her questions just feeds into her goal and goads her on to ask more. Her questions are intended to shame him for not spending his money on the same foolish things she considers essential, the more she asks her shaming questions the more defensive she hopes her victim will become.
She also doesn't need to understand that Hirondelle's "gerbrabbel" (LOVE that word, thank you for sharing) is a defensive strategy. It's actually better is she doesn't. As long as she is not getting the intended self-affirming reaction she hopes for she will be less likely to try the same tactic again simply because there is no reward.
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OMG!!!
That's how I felt after reading her book The Gentle Art of Verbal Self Defense. So much liberating knowledge!
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OMG!!!
That's how I felt after reading her book The Gentle Art of Verbal Self Defense. So much liberating knowledge!
So much this.
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I work with a woman who makes $65000 a year. We don't get into a lot of personally but in January she talked about how she owed $900 to the IRS. Fast forward to April 15th and she had to borrow the $900 from the bank to pay her taxes off. Every day we hear about how broke she is because of the loan but her dogs go to doggie day care once a week to the tune of $80 bucks. The dogs don't go for any other reason but she thinks they like it. So, if she gave it up between February and April she would have had almost enough to pay her debt.
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Associate drives aging heavy duty pickup. Complains about the cost of a newer truck. Really close to wearing this one out. Eats out every day at lunch, sometimes breakfast and dinner. Every curve ball that Murphy throws at them requires credit.
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That only works if the "attacker" is A) really attacking and B) understands your Gebrabbel (as we Germans say) as a defence.
Both would not be true for e.g. me.
Is Gebrabbel also German?! We use it too in Dutch! Regarding the response; I guess it's a good strategy if it's a person you actively dislike. I do like this person otherwise and we hang out outside of work once in a while sooooo I guess I'll just say I save it up for travel next time. That's somewhat true as I do many trips, except that my 55%+ savings rate is after budgeted travel expenses.
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Not sure to what extent this one fits better in the MPP or this thread.
Background: My coworkers know I'm a frugal person and save a lot of money (they don't know how much). We are all young, in similar life stages (no kids yet) and have fairly low salaries.
CW: "Why do you save so much money?"
Me: "Well, after all my needs are met there's just money left and I see no point in spending it now. I rather save it up for later flexibility." (didn't want to go into depth at this point, wasn't a good moment for it)
CW: "But why don't you just spend some extra?"
Me: "Well, I already spend money on all the things I want!"
CW: "You could buy yourself some nice books!"
Me: "I occasionally do buy a book.."
CW: "Then how about shoes?!"
Me: "..."
Really, why do you need to come up with spending ideas if I explicitly state all my needs are met? I don't understand how she framed my lack of spending as a 'problem' to be solved in her head.
This would have been a perfect opportunity to practice the "Boring Baroque Response" verbal self-defense strategy as described by Suzette Elgin:
"You know, I think it's because of something that happened to me when I was just a little kid. We were living in Detroit at the time, and... No, wait a minute! It couldn't have been Detroit, it must have been when we were living in Indianapolis, because that was the summer my Aunt Grace came to visit us and brought her dog. You know those funny little dogs with the big ears that stick out? Well, this dog...." [And so on, for as long as it takes.]"
A response like this delivers the following message: "I notice that you're here to pick a fight. Do that if you like, but it's not going to be much fun for you, because I won't play that game." Listening to a BBR is excruciatingly boring. The most usual result is that by the time you've gotten to the part about your aunt's dog the attacker is already saying, "Oh, never MIND!" and leaving in a hurry -- while making a mental note that you're no fun as a victim and shouldn't be chosen for that role in future.
https://people.howstuffworks.com/vsd2.htm (https://people.howstuffworks.com/vsd2.htm)
This! I'm so glad you mentioned this! I've never heard that term before, but this is precisely how my boss talks. Not as a "I'm going to intentionally bore you so you leave my office" conversation trick, but as a personality trait. Every single comment is preceded by 5 minutes of rambling about tangentially, but completely unnecessary, topics. It drives me insane. And now I have a term for it. Thank you!
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I need that book! Used or from the library of course ;-)
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I've mentioned this co-worker before in the old thread (he once estimated he and his wife spend $25K a year at Whole Foods.) I compile many stories from him so I can dole them out slowly. While not his most egregious financial error, here's a series of conversations we've had.
November 2017:
Me: "You and your wife up to anything this weekend?"
CW: "We just got a new TV on sale for Black Friday! We're just going to watch that all weekend. Do you have a smart TV?"
Me: "No, but we bought a Chromecast for $35 to sync all of our apps to our TV. So we don't have it built in, but I generally have all the functionality."
CW: "Yeah, we had a Chromecast with our old TV, but the it was blinking out every once in a while so we needed a new one. Plus, it only had 2 HDMI ports, I always had to swap the Chromecast and the PS3 when I wanted to use them."
Me: "I guess that would be annoying."
CW: "Well we ended up getting a great deal. It was only $1,800, the last time we bought a TV on Black Friday it was $2,500."
Me: (silent)
CW: "We wanted to make sure it was a 4K TV, but we didn't even realize until we opened it up at home that it was a 3D TV too. We just found these glasses in in the box!"
Me: (silent)
CW: "I don't really know what we'll watch in 4K 3D, I think the only thing that really will hold up is 'Avatar.'"
So instead of returning the item they mistakenly purchased and getting a cheaper TV, they'll keep it to watch 1 below average James Cameron movie.
December 2017:
A second coworker and I are discussing tax issues, the typical "I want a big refund" conversation ensues, and I say how I would have rather had that money in each of my paychecks throughout the year rather than all at once in tax season. Original TV-related coworker overhears and chimes in.
CW: "Yeah, but you would have just spent the money if you'd had it this whole time. You would have just bought a bigger TV!"
No. No I would not.
February 2018:
CW: "I've got to go to Building X to pick up next month's parking pass. Might be my last one."
Me: "Oh, is your contract not getting renewed?"
CW: "They're not sure if there will be enough money for it. I'm not really sure what we'll do, my wife doesn't really bring in any income."
(He's been on a contract for maybe 8 months at this point. He always knew there was no guarantee of further employment, although short extensions did come.)
CW: "But I still have to go get that last parking pass. It's just so expensive to park around here. Even after the employee discount, the parking pass still costs $300 for the month."
Me: "That much? Wow, that's pretty expensive."
CW: "If I could walk to work like you do, I'd be rich! I'd have an extra $300 a month and I'd be able to buy a new TV set. I'd get an 8K TV when they come out!"
In the same conversation where we're saying he might not have any income to his household next month, he says how he wouldn't bank his hypothetical commuting savings, he would buy yet another TV.
November 2018:
Months have gone by and he actually now has a permanent position, which is great news for him. Black Friday is coming up yet again, which is bad news for his bank account.
I'll give you one guess what he's telling me he's going to buy.
CW: "We're going to go to Target right at midnight to get a new TV. The one in our workout room doesn't have the functionality we need."
Me: "What kind of functionality?"
CW: "Well there's only one HDMI port, which has our Chromecast in it. We need another port to connect the AppleTV because the Chromecast doesn't work right with Pandora."
Me: "Really? My Chromecast works with Pandora. Maybe it's something wrong with the account?"
CW: "No, my wife doesn't like to hear the ads while she's working out. We have an Ad-Blocker installed that stops the ads from playing, but the Chromecast doesn't recognize it, so we need the TV to be able to work with both the Chromecast and the AppleTV. So we're just going to get a TV that has more HDMI ports."
So they're back to buy yet another new TV, all because the wife doesn't want to listen to ads. Or pay for the ad-free version of Pandora. Or for a ~$15 HDMI splitter. Or to just stop using the Chromecast and only use the AppleTV in the one port that exists.
Or just use HEADPHONES or a SPEAKER like every other person alive, instead of insisting your music comes through a TV.
Needless to say, I'm pretty sure I'm retiring before this guy, even though I'm almost 30 years younger.
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It makes me sad that he can't think of something more interesting to spend money on than televisions, FFS.
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That’s bizarre. Our TVs cost 500 and are not smart. We keep them until they die. We have 2.
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Omg, all that TV buying was really painful to read. What does he do with the old ones? I cringe to think of the electronic waste and the impact on the environment.
We have two TVs and one of them was free.
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Yikes. We have one TV that we bought 12 years ago as an open-box Best Buy deal. It isn’t “smart” but it does everything we want it to do. I don’t understand why we would ever need to replace it before some component fails.
It makes me sad that he can't think of something more interesting to spend money on than televisions, FFS.
Right?! His life must be very narrow and sheltered, or he completely lacks imagination.
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That makes my head hurt. We've been considering getting a new TV, but I just can't bring myself to do it yet. We have a 10+ year old model that I paid way too much money for (it's a facepunch-worthy story that involves my then 40 year-old ex husband throwing a temper tantrum) and a $128 after-xmas special that I got maybe 6 years ago. The color has slowly started to go on the older TV and all three HDMI ports have gone out on the newer one. Right now we're making do with what we've got (HDMI-to-RCA adapters). I won't say that I haven't held off buying another firestick until we see whether or not the next TV is smart or not.
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I've realized how much people are addicted to TV.
When my YMCA remodeled, they got rid of all wall-mounted TVs.
In the new weight room/crossfit area they had none. The best thing ever. No dawdling around. Put on your earbuds/headphones, breathe, push, lift, jump, done. Also, they got the basic cable TV channels, about 35, instead of the fuckillion useless ones previously that you could view on the cardio machines' built in LCD screens.
They also got rid of the TV option on some of the cardio machines, just the dumb screen to display metrics and workout options. There's free wifi to stream on your smartphone/tablet.
They recently installed 2 small TVs in the corners for weather situational awareness. No news. Otherwise it's a local/FL sports channel.
Recently I saw 2 guys, new to the Y, complaining at the front desk why no ESPN or pro-sports channels were being shown. As a result, it's now Weather Channel all day on those two 32-inch TVs, mounted 10 feet high.
The Y branch manager was working out next to me, I've known her ~10 years. She said the membership drive was better this year, more exercise committed folks. However, the quitters' main complaint was that the Y didn't have good TV options, and <insert expensive national gym chain> was better. The complainypants preferred to watch traditional TV on low-quality LCD screens on cardio machines instead of better quality streaming on tablets.
When my 2007 Vizio 37 inch TV was dying, in late 2017 I bought a 55 inch TCL 4k TV for under $700 that's a highly rated budget buy. I barely watch TV. My family watches cumulative about 10 hours a week, most of it is PBS/Create. And wife and I feel that we watch too much. Old TV given to yard man who said his relative likes to fix things.
Have an ex-coworker who upgraded his TV every December at Best Buy; claimed he was getting a great deal on some upgrade program. Imagine another 19 people laughing and shaking heads when he would say this in a weekly meeting. This was for almost 6 years I heard this. Sometimes he'd upgrade in summer and December. He was so proud of it. If only he'd done this at Circuit City, he'd have kept them from going under. :-p
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CW: "We wanted to make sure it was a 4K TV, but we didn't even realize until we opened it up at home that it was a 3D TV too. We just found these glasses in in the box!"
Me: (silent)
CW: "I don't really know what we'll watch in 4K 3D, I think the only thing that really will hold up is 'Avatar.'"
Holy crap, how do you spend $1800 on anything without researching every aspect of it. I've spent hours reading up on product specs and reviews for purchases in the $20 range.
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It makes me sad that he can't think of something more interesting to spend money on than televisions, FFS.
If it makes you less sad, despite that story, I don't even get the impression he watches that much TV. He has lots of interesting hobbies that he talks about. I think this is the only way he knows how to keep up with the Jones', he practically trips over himself to compare TV's with everyone.
Because he spends his money on hobbies most people don't understand, he can never string enough together to get the bigger house (that he always talks about and doesn't need) or the Tesla (that he also always talks about and definitely doesn't need.)
But dammit, he'll make sure we all know he has the newest cutting edge 3D4KHDQVCLMNOP TV on the block!
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My husband’s company recently determined that one of his co-workers in the accounting department “borrowed” $60K from the company without permission. CW insisted the $60K was a loan that he would pay back and was legitimately shocked when the company fired him.
My husband was in charge of the fraud investigation and cleanup of CW’s outstanding work. He found e-mail correspondence with the IRS in which the CW was trying to negotiate a repayment plan for a $45K IRS tax delinquency. He also found a spreadsheet where the CW listed all of his outstanding personal credit card totaling $100K+. He also had a list of monthly repayments that included a mortgage, two cars, a boat, etc.
After the termination, the CW took a $250K withdrawal from his 401K (almost the entire balance). This CW is in his early 60’s and was making over $100K/year. My husband is not aware of any health or family issues that would have caused the debt to spiral.
The owners of the company forgave the $60K “loan” and did not press charges, but this CW destroyed his professional reputation and ability to earn a living which he desperately needs (based on his debt load).
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I never even had a TV until I moved in with my s/o. I would occasionally watch DVD's or documentaries on youtube. Thanks to him we now have a small TV in the living room, but no cable, so it's still only used for Netflix, youtube and football games every now and then (through a chromecast and an app that a friend generously offered us his login for ).
We take a lunch walk with a group of coworkers every day and at least half of the time, someone will ask me if I watched X or Y on TV. Then without even noticing me saying 'no, I don't have TV' they will start ranting about how there are so many bad shows at channel A or B or C. I know, that's why I don't watch it! I never liked TV even when I was a kid growing up so I never bothered to get TV when I moved out.
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My husband’s company recently determined that one of his co-workers in the accounting department “borrowed” $60K from the company without permission. CW insisted the $60K was a loan that he would pay back and was legitimately shocked when the company fired him.
My husband was in charge of the fraud investigation and cleanup of CW’s outstanding work. He found e-mail correspondence with the IRS in which the CW was trying to negotiate a repayment plan for a $45K IRS tax delinquency. He also found a spreadsheet where the CW listed all of his outstanding personal credit card totaling $100K+. He also had a list of monthly repayments that included a mortgage, two cars, a boat, etc.
After the termination, the CW took a $250K withdrawal from his 401K (almost the entire balance). This CW is in his early 60’s and was making over $100K/year. My husband is not aware of any health or family issues that would have caused the debt to spiral.
The owners of the company forgave the $60K “loan” and did not press charges, but this CW destroyed his professional reputation and ability to earn a living which he desperately needs (based on his debt load).
whoa
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The lack of imagination is STAGGERING.
I mean, if I was going to be throwing thousands out the door... well.
I'd set up a pottery studio. In a shed, ideally heated and outside of the house.
I'd take a long vacation somewhere fun.
Hell, some really expensive and interesting-looking *ahem* adult toys could be fun.
... TVs, tho? MULTIPLE TVs? It's not like GOT becomes better on a new TV, and it's not like TV shows become more well-written or compelling.
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My husband’s company recently determined that one of his co-workers in the accounting department “borrowed” $60K from the company without permission. CW insisted the $60K was a loan that he would pay back and was legitimately shocked when the company fired him.
My husband was in charge of the fraud investigation and cleanup of CW’s outstanding work. He found e-mail correspondence with the IRS in which the CW was trying to negotiate a repayment plan for a $45K IRS tax delinquency. He also found a spreadsheet where the CW listed all of his outstanding personal credit card totaling $100K+. He also had a list of monthly repayments that included a mortgage, two cars, a boat, etc.
After the termination, the CW took a $250K withdrawal from his 401K (almost the entire balance). This CW is in his early 60’s and was making over $100K/year. My husband is not aware of any health or family issues that would have caused the debt to spiral.
The owners of the company forgave the $60K “loan” and did not press charges, but this CW destroyed his professional reputation and ability to earn a living which he desperately needs (based on his debt load).
Multiple jaw-droppers in this post. Embezzled $60,000? $45,000 tax delinquency? $100k credit card debt?!!? Perhaps the most surprising is that he had that much in his 401k. Doing time for the embezzlement might have been the wakeup call this guy needs.
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My husband’s company recently determined that one of his co-workers in the accounting department “borrowed” $60K from the company without permission. CW insisted the $60K was a loan that he would pay back and was legitimately shocked when the company fired him.
My husband was in charge of the fraud investigation and cleanup of CW’s outstanding work. He found e-mail correspondence with the IRS in which the CW was trying to negotiate a repayment plan for a $45K IRS tax delinquency. He also found a spreadsheet where the CW listed all of his outstanding personal credit card totaling $100K+. He also had a list of monthly repayments that included a mortgage, two cars, a boat, etc.
After the termination, the CW took a $250K withdrawal from his 401K (almost the entire balance). This CW is in his early 60’s and was making over $100K/year. My husband is not aware of any health or family issues that would have caused the debt to spiral.
The owners of the company forgave the $60K “loan” and did not press charges, but this CW destroyed his professional reputation and ability to earn a living which he desperately needs (based on his debt load).
Multiple jaw-droppers in this post. Embezzled $60,000? $45,000 tax delinquency? $100k credit card debt?!!? Perhaps the most surprising is that he had that much in his 401k. Doing time for the embezzlement might have been the wakeup call this guy needs.
Well now redhead84 knows to embezzle $60k before FIREing because it will be forgiven and no charges will be made
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I mean, if they aren't going to go after him for $60k, how much could he have taken before they decided not to forgive it? I think we need redhead84 to double that and see what happens
For scientific reasons, of course
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We got a television ten years ago as part of a marital compromise. ;) We chose this something-something model that to my eyes looked stunning. The Planet Earth episodes on that screen were a delight.
We still have the same device and I still think it looks great (every month or two when we have a chance to sit down and watch something). No need to go look at new models to see what has advanced if I’m still happy. Comparison is the thief of joy and all that.
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Wow, if you’re going to upgrade your TV annually, at least wait until after the super bowl and get a once-used open box TV
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I mean, if they aren't going to go after him for $60k, how much could he have taken before they decided not to forgive it? I think we need redhead84 to double that and see what happens
For scientific reasons, of course
My husband's company had a previous fraud for a $200K+ that they did prosecute. Maybe we need to find the sweet spot between $60K and $200K to optimize the theft without prosecution.
ETA: His company also needs some better controls, obviously.
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I mean, if they aren't going to go after him for $60k, how much could he have taken before they decided not to forgive it? I think we need redhead84 to double that and see what happens
For scientific reasons, of course
My husband's company had a previous fraud for a $200K+ that they did prosecute. Maybe we need to find the sweet spot between $60K and $200K to optimize the theft without prosecution.
ETA: His company also needs some better controls, obviously.
The sweet spot may well be 'everything is spent and he's clearly in so much debt that we'll have to get behind the govt in order to get money and will never see a penny of it, not worth the lawyers'.
So 200K fully spent, with 100K debt on top of that, may well be acceptable... by some definition of acceptable.
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Wow, if you’re going to upgrade your TV annually, at least wait until after the super bowl and get a once-used open box TV
But then your TV would be "old" when the next super bowl aired! God forbid the bro-friends should have to watch the game on last year's model! What would the neighbors think?!
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We're watching a well worn 40in LCD 120Hz TV.
If we bought a huge 4K TV we'd need to upgrade our media sources and that's not gonna happen. We don't have cable or satellite as it is. Our internet connection isn't fast enough.
I recently looked at a 65in 4K TV displaying what looked like SD programming. Really mediocre.
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snip
TVs.
Oh boy.
TVs.
We have one TV. Yes we also have other electronics.
I remember decades ago when black Friday had a sale on TV/VCR combos and a coworker was SO EXCITED to go stand in line to buy 3, one for each kid. The baby was...literally a baby.
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For each of the past 4 (or so) years, my wife and I have discussed setting aside $$$ of our yearly budget to upgrade our 10 year old (bought-used 8 years ago) monstrosity of a TV.
This past Christmas we noticed some boxing week sales (week after Xmas for non-Canadians) so went to check them out. Ended up buying a 55 inch 4K Firefox app included TV and it is fucking glorious. Especially for watching hockey. Aaaand I could see what was going on during the pitch black GoT episode a couple weeks ago.
The best part: it was only 500 bucks!! (the smaller 50 inch was $600)
I feel like that was a pretty damned good mustachian purchase of a non-mustachian product. I'll call it a draw.
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For each of the past 4 (or so) years, my wife and I have discussed setting aside $$$ of our yearly budget to upgrade our 10 year old (bought-used 8 years ago) monstrosity of a TV.
This past Christmas we noticed some boxing week sales (week after Xmas for non-Canadians) so went to check them out. Ended up buying a 55 inch 4K Firefox app included TV and it is fucking glorious. Especially for watching hockey. Aaaand I could see what was going on during the pitch black GoT episode a couple weeks ago.
The best part: it was only 500 bucks!! (the smaller 50 inch was $600)
I feel like that was a pretty damned good mustachian purchase of a non-mustachian product. I'll call it a draw.
Tv has definitely advanced in the last decade (at a value price point) but I think the incremental advantages of upgrading every year are pretty much zero. If you keep this one for another decade you’ll probably be very happy with your next upgrade
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For each of the past 4 (or so) years, my wife and I have discussed setting aside $$$ of our yearly budget to upgrade our 10 year old (bought-used 8 years ago) monstrosity of a TV.
This past Christmas we noticed some boxing week sales (week after Xmas for non-Canadians) so went to check them out. Ended up buying a 55 inch 4K Firefox app included TV and it is fucking glorious. Especially for watching hockey. Aaaand I could see what was going on during the pitch black GoT episode a couple weeks ago.
The best part: it was only 500 bucks!! (the smaller 50 inch was $600)
I feel like that was a pretty damned good mustachian purchase of a non-mustachian product. I'll call it a draw.
Tv has definitely advanced in the last decade (at a value price point) but I think the incremental advantages of upgrading every year are pretty much zero. If you keep this one for another decade you’ll probably be very happy with your next upgrade
Totally! Upgrading a TV every year is insane. There's a 0.0% chance that happens here.
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For each of the past 4 (or so) years, my wife and I have discussed setting aside $$$ of our yearly budget to upgrade our 10 year old (bought-used 8 years ago) monstrosity of a TV.
This past Christmas we noticed some boxing week sales (week after Xmas for non-Canadians) so went to check them out. Ended up buying a 55 inch 4K Firefox app included TV and it is fucking glorious. Especially for watching hockey. Aaaand I could see what was going on during the pitch black GoT episode a couple weeks ago.
The best part: it was only 500 bucks!! (the smaller 50 inch was $600)
I feel like that was a pretty damned good mustachian purchase of a non-mustachian product. I'll call it a draw.
Tv has definitely advanced in the last decade (at a value price point) but I think the incremental advantages of upgrading every year are pretty much zero. If you keep this one for another decade you’ll probably be very happy with your next upgrade
Totally! Upgrading a TV every year is insane. There's a 0.0% chance that happens here.
I.just.can't.even........
our 'good' TV, which I was thinking was pretty new, is actually 6.5 years old (I just did the 'math') and it might be older than that.....I wasn't tracking that closely back then. And we have no immediate plans to replace it....when it dies, we'll start looking....and come to think of it the salesman said they last about 5 years (which doesn't seem like a great testimony to their quality)
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For each of the past 4 (or so) years, my wife and I have discussed setting aside $$$ of our yearly budget to upgrade our 10 year old (bought-used 8 years ago) monstrosity of a TV.
This past Christmas we noticed some boxing week sales (week after Xmas for non-Canadians) so went to check them out. Ended up buying a 55 inch 4K Firefox app included TV and it is fucking glorious. Especially for watching hockey. Aaaand I could see what was going on during the pitch black GoT episode a couple weeks ago.
The best part: it was only 500 bucks!! (the smaller 50 inch was $600)
I feel like that was a pretty damned good mustachian purchase of a non-mustachian product. I'll call it a draw.
Tv has definitely advanced in the last decade (at a value price point) but I think the incremental advantages of upgrading every year are pretty much zero. If you keep this one for another decade you’ll probably be very happy with your next upgrade
Totally! Upgrading a TV every year is insane. There's a 0.0% chance that happens here.
I.just.can't.even........
our 'good' TV, which I was thinking was pretty new, is actually 6.5 years old (I just did the 'math') and it might be older than that.....I wasn't tracking that closely back then. And we have no immediate plans to replace it....when it dies, we'll start looking....and come to think of it the salesman said they last about 5 years (which doesn't seem like a great testimony to their quality)
These things are designed to have exactly the life that people are willing to pay for. If everyone wanted and needed a television to last for 15 years and were willing to pay for that higher quality, you can be sure the market would respond. What is the point of making something that last for 15 years if most customers will replace it after 3? That would be a waste of resources.
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We got a television ten years ago as part of a marital compromise. ;) We chose this something-something model that to my eyes looked stunning. The Planet Earth episodes on that screen were a delight.
We still have the same device and I still think it looks great (every month or two when we have a chance to sit down and watch something). No need to go look at new models to see what has advanced if I’m still happy. Comparison is the thief of joy and all that.
For Christmas two years ago, I gifted my husband half of a new TV we got on a black Friday sale. Strangely enough, he gifted me half a TV for Christmas too!
And to continue the trend, the TV it replaced was somewhere in the 8 year old range. We jumped straight from 720p to 4k.
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\....and come to think of it the salesman said they last about 5 years (which doesn't seem like a great testimony to their quality)
That's probably based on watching like 40 hours a week of TV or something. If you run it less, it should last longer. My husband watches a lot of TV in my opinion (and turns it on for background noise, much to my chagrin) and the LG flat screen we have is going on 10 years with no issues.
Glad the original TV guy here has other hobbies. But what will he do when his current house can no longer accommodate the television upgrades? Need a bigger house for that 80" TV! However, I find it hard to believe that he isn't watching quite a bit to be bothered by the things you say that he's noted as reasons for needing new TVs. I actually don't even understand any of it. Beyond DVR, which is the only thing that makes watching any TV at all tolerable, I guess we don't need ours to do anything special.
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My TV collects dust most of the time, except for the occasional movie. I don't have cable but I hook up my laptop with a HDMI cable for a bigger screen.
One friend has been gushing about the newest 4k whatever model... insisting I should get one myself because 'it's so much sharper! The quality is so much better!'
Listen dude I haven't upgraded my contact lens prescription in years, I doubt I'll notice the difference.
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\....and come to think of it the salesman said they last about 5 years (which doesn't seem like a great testimony to their quality)
That's probably based on watching like 40 hours a week of TV or something. If you run it less, it should last longer. My husband watches a lot of TV in my opinion (and turns it on for background noise, much to my chagrin) and the LG flat screen we have is going on 10 years with no issues.
Mine is 12 years I think. The replacement for the CRT type TV.
Yes, there is a visible difference to modern TVs in color. But it is still sharp with HD stuff and I have a color deficiency anyway ;)
TVs are not breaking because of the screen. Don't forget is is basically the same technic that made pocket calculators 30 years ago that are still going.
Most TVs break down because of some tiny piece of electronics (like a capacitator) that cannot stand heat and is "inexplicable" placed near a heat source.
You can fairly confident say how many hours it takes for that piece to break based on qualitiy and placing.
That is where the 5 years come from.
For the average user.
If you watch only 1/10 of the average user it might not work 10 times longer, but certainly you get more years out of it.
"TVs" that break down because of the screen has reached the end of life time you can only find at airports, train stations and such like. The huge electronic time tables. They run 24/7 with basically the same picture always and a very high light capacity. If I remember right the German railway company changes them every 4 years, because they are burnt out - which does not mean that they are unusable, mind you. Just that the risk of them getting broken has increased so much that the cost for emergency repairs is bigger than simply replacing them on a regular, planned interval.
Now you can, if you want, calculate how long a TV screen can go if you run it 1 hour a day with far less demanding usage.
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The backlight will definitely fade over time (led or fluorescent). I’d guess 80% brightness after five years regular usage is not a bad ballpark. It’s still usable, but that’s the point it will become more noticeable
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The backlight will definitely fade over time (led or fluorescent). I’d guess 80% brightness after five years regular usage is not a bad ballpark. It’s still usable, but that’s the point it will become more noticeable
Haven't noticed. Our TV is almost literally gaslighting us.
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The backlight will definitely fade over time (led or fluorescent). I’d guess 80% brightness after five years regular usage is not a bad ballpark. It’s still usable, but that’s the point it will become more noticeable
Wow, our TV is just fine, and we bought it in 2006. For as much as we paid way back then, I hope it lasts a lot longer.
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Most goods I ball park by where I lived when I bought them. My TV was bought while I was in Georgia so at least 6 years old probably more like 8, I guess I'll be replacing it "soon."
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The backlight will definitely fade over time (led or fluorescent). I’d guess 80% brightness after five years regular usage is not a bad ballpark. It’s still usable, but that’s the point it will become more noticeable
Haven't noticed. Our TV is almost literally gaslighting us.
My plasma still looks lovely. Even new LCD screens at Costco don't look great by comparison.
OLED look like a suitable eventual replacement - in the far future, as prices are still ridiculous.
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The backlight will definitely fade over time (led or fluorescent). I’d guess 80% brightness after five years regular usage is not a bad ballpark. It’s still usable, but that’s the point it will become more noticeable
Haven't noticed. Our TV is almost literally gaslighting us.
Curious how much you use it. I have a 14 year old laptop that I keep around for reasons and it’s definitely noticeable at this point. But I put in many hours of use everyday on that thing.
Brightness fade is also something that’s hard to confirm unless you happen to have a brand new tv of the same model that you can compare side by side. I have some LED can lights that I didn’t notice the slight dimness until I had to replace one with a spare that hadn’t been used.
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The backlight will definitely fade over time (led or fluorescent). I’d guess 80% brightness after five years regular usage is not a bad ballpark. It’s still usable, but that’s the point it will become more noticeable
Haven't noticed. Our TV is almost literally gaslighting us.
My plasma still looks lovely. Even new LCD screens at Costco don't look great by comparison.
OLED look like a suitable eventual replacement - in the far future, as prices are still ridiculous.
Comparable to plasmas back in the day, though.
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Most goods I ball park by where I lived when I bought them. My TV was bought while I was in Georgia so at least 6 years old probably more like 8, I guess I'll be replacing it "soon."
Our TV was inherited from my grandmother, and she died in 2011. I don't know how long she had had it before then. We use it once or twice a month for a family movie night, so I doubt it will wear out for a very long time.
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The backlight will definitely fade over time (led or fluorescent). I’d guess 80% brightness after five years regular usage is not a bad ballpark. It’s still usable, but that’s the point it will become more noticeable
Haven't noticed. Our TV is almost literally gaslighting us.
Curious how much you use it. I have a 14 year old laptop that I keep around for reasons and it’s definitely noticeable at this point. But I put in many hours of use everyday on that thing.
Brightness fade is also something that’s hard to confirm unless you happen to have a brand new tv of the same model that you can compare side by side. I have some LED can lights that I didn’t notice the slight dimness until I had to replace one with a spare that hadn’t been used.
Umm, maybe it's on 2-3 hours a day on weekdays and 5 on weekends? Sometimes less, since H is the main TV watcher (I probably watched 2 hours when he was gone for three weeks - this is why any new TV purchase is on him).
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The backlight will definitely fade over time (led or fluorescent). I’d guess 80% brightness after five years regular usage is not a bad ballpark. It’s still usable, but that’s the point it will become more noticeable
Haven't noticed. Our TV is almost literally gaslighting us.
Curious how much you use it. I have a 14 year old laptop that I keep around for reasons and it’s definitely noticeable at this point. But I put in many hours of use everyday on that thing.
Brightness fade is also something that’s hard to confirm unless you happen to have a brand new tv of the same model that you can compare side by side. I have some LED can lights that I didn’t notice the slight dimness until I had to replace one with a spare that hadn’t been used.
A laptop of that age may have fluorescent tubes, which actually *can* be replaced! (I used to do just that about 10 years ago as a side hustle).
I've discovered a trick with LED light bulbs to extend their life--some bulbs can be effectively downrated by popping off the diffuser and removing one of two resistors from the PCB, effectively turning a 60W-equivalent bulb into a 30W-equivalent. You kind of have to know what you're doing, though, and a lot of bulbs aren't arranged in a way that makes it easy. Most recently, I did it for the bulbs for our bathroom vanity. I believe they were Sylvania brand. I did the same thing for the bulbs in our night stand lamps--I couldn't find 25W-equivalent bulbs at the hardware store, so I snipped a pair of 40W bulbs.
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The backlight will definitely fade over time (led or fluorescent). I’d guess 80% brightness after five years regular usage is not a bad ballpark. It’s still usable, but that’s the point it will become more noticeable
Haven't noticed. Our TV is almost literally gaslighting us.
Curious how much you use it. I have a 14 year old laptop that I keep around for reasons and it’s definitely noticeable at this point. But I put in many hours of use everyday on that thing.
Brightness fade is also something that’s hard to confirm unless you happen to have a brand new tv of the same model that you can compare side by side. I have some LED can lights that I didn’t notice the slight dimness until I had to replace one with a spare that hadn’t been used.
A laptop of that age may have fluorescent tubes, which actually *can* be replaced! (I used to do just that about 10 years ago as a side hustle).
I've discovered a trick with LED light bulbs to extend their life--some bulbs can be effectively downrated by popping off the diffuser and removing one of two resistors from the PCB, effectively turning a 60W-equivalent bulb into a 30W-equivalent. You kind of have to know what you're doing, though, and a lot of bulbs aren't arranged in a way that makes it easy. Most recently, I did it for the bulbs for our bathroom vanity. I believe they were Sylvania brand. I did the same thing for the bulbs in our night stand lamps--I couldn't find 25W-equivalent bulbs at the hardware store, so I snipped a pair of 40W bulbs.
The old laptop is definitely fluorescent, but at this point it’s not worth replacing as I mostly run it headless.
Interesting about the bulbs but what’s the downside of just dimming them? The expense of the dimmer or is dimming harder on the driver circuit?
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My boss asked during the lunch break which car insurance she would buy.
One insurance package would cost 300$ extra to give both of her teenage daughters access to drive both cars.
The other package would cost less, but had an own share of 2000$ in case of damage.
I asked whether she could not just give the daughters access to only one of the cars. But she said it should be nice for them to be able to drive both cars. She also said she didn't have 2000$ in case of a damage.
I really have the impression that my boss has a tight economy. She should be the best paid person in our department.
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My boss asked during the lunch break which car insurance she would buy.
One insurance package would cost 300$ extra to give both of her teenage daughters access to drive both cars.
The other package would cost less, but had an own share of 2000$ in case of damage.
I asked whether she could not just give the daughters access to only one of the cars. But she said it should be nice for them to be able to drive both cars. She also said she didn't have 2000$ in case of a damage.
I really have the impression that my boss has a tight economy. She should be the best paid person in our department.
So she can't afford $2000 for an accident but she can afford $4000/yr in additional insurance???? Am I missing something here?
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My boss asked during the lunch break which car insurance she would buy.
One insurance package would cost 300$ extra to give both of her teenage daughters access to drive both cars.
The other package would cost less, but had an own share of 2000$ in case of damage.
I asked whether she could not just give the daughters access to only one of the cars. But she said it should be nice for them to be able to drive both cars. She also said she didn't have 2000$ in case of a damage.
I really have the impression that my boss has a tight economy. She should be the best paid person in our department.
So she can't afford $2000 for an accident but she can afford $4000/yr in additional insurance???? Am I missing something here?
Yes, you are missing the stupid gene. :)
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My boss asked during the lunch break which car insurance she would buy.
One insurance package would cost 300$ extra to give both of her teenage daughters access to drive both cars.
The other package would cost less, but had an own share of 2000$ in case of damage.
I asked whether she could not just give the daughters access to only one of the cars. But she said it should be nice for them to be able to drive both cars. She also said she didn't have 2000$ in case of a damage.
I really have the impression that my boss has a tight economy. She should be the best paid person in our department.
So she can't afford $2000 for an accident but she can afford $4000/yr in additional insurance???? Am I missing something here?
No, can't afford 2000$ in case of an accident. Can afford 300$ per year, but complains that it is expensive.
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It might not be one $2,000 accident. One of my close friends had three accidents the day he turned 16.
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Overheard at work, epic stupidity oh my FUCKING god.
"Oh, raising children is SO EXPENSIVE, I don't know how anyone does it, etc etc etc.", from someone whose family income is AT LEAST 120K/year (CAD).
Further clarification:
- Can't pay the 8$/day school daycare fee for post-school care for 3 kids, instead pays 300$/week for the post-school nanny.
- The kids (8, 6, and 6) can't POSSIBLY do chores or vacuum or fold laundry or change sheets or help out. Cleaning lady, 150$/week (note: I also have a cleaning person: 80$ every 2 weeks, and we do the in-between work, because it's a balance between sanity and money. I also don't whine about it to my colleagues because it's my choice and I live with it).
- THE SKI. OH MY FUCKING GOD. They're part of a rich-snotty-kid ski club and have related equipemnt purchases and family ski passes and it's 12 THOUSAND DOLLARS PER YEAR. POST-TAX. I was just like... you're aware that cross-country is an option, right?
... For the record: I track my kid-related spending in YNAB (not the extra food, but the stuff specifically for them). Clothes, gifts, swim classes, gear, new car seats, etc - we're looking at an average under 250/month. Which, sure, not cheap (and we could cut it down if we needed), but definitely not utterly outrageous.
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My boss asked during the lunch break which car insurance she would buy.
One insurance package would cost 300$ extra to give both of her teenage daughters access to drive both cars.
The other package would cost less, but had an own share of 2000$ in case of damage.
I asked whether she could not just give the daughters access to only one of the cars. But she said it should be nice for them to be able to drive both cars. She also said she didn't have 2000$ in case of a damage.
I really have the impression that my boss has a tight economy. She should be the best paid person in our department.
Depending on the insurance company, this may not be possible. In the US anyway, a lot of insurance companies want to have every licensed driver listed for every covered car. They assume that everyone will have access to all the keys. I've even heard of some companies wanting to list platonic roommates.
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Overheard at work, epic stupidity oh my FUCKING god.
"Oh, raising children is SO EXPENSIVE, I don't know how anyone does it, etc etc etc.", from someone whose family income is AT LEAST 120K/year (CAD).
Further clarification:
- Can't pay the 8$/day school daycare fee for post-school care for 3 kids, instead pays 300$/week for the post-school nanny.
- The kids (8, 6, and 6) can't POSSIBLY do chores or vacuum or fold laundry or change sheets or help out. Cleaning lady, 150$/week (note: I also have a cleaning person: 80$ every 2 weeks, and we do the in-between work, because it's a balance between sanity and money. I also don't whine about it to my colleagues because it's my choice and I live with it).
- THE SKI. OH MY FUCKING GOD. They're part of a rich-snotty-kid ski club and have related equipemnt purchases and family ski passes and it's 12 THOUSAND DOLLARS PER YEAR. POST-TAX. I was just like... you're aware that cross-country is an option, right?
... For the record: I track my kid-related spending in YNAB (not the extra food, but the stuff specifically for them). Clothes, gifts, swim classes, gear, new car seats, etc - we're looking at an average under 250/month. Which, sure, not cheap (and we could cut it down if we needed), but definitely not utterly outrageous.
Wait, so 10% of their income goes to ski club?? O.O
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The old laptop is definitely fluorescent, but at this point it’s not worth replacing as I mostly run it headless.
Interesting about the bulbs but what’s the downside of just dimming them? The expense of the dimmer or is dimming harder on the driver circuit?
The downside is that our lamps don't have dimmers, or dimmers cost money (and take a little time to install), or dimmers get bumped and go too high or too low. Yeah, these are first world problems, but it doesn't take much time to modify the bulbs.
The other package would cost less, but had an own share of 2000$ in case of damage.
FYI, at least in the US, the "own share" is called a "deductible," i.e. the insurance company deducts this amount from the total cost of repairs.
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Overheard at work, epic stupidity oh my FUCKING god.
"Oh, raising children is SO EXPENSIVE, I don't know how anyone does it, etc etc etc.", from someone whose family income is AT LEAST 120K/year (CAD).
Further clarification:
- Can't pay the 8$/day school daycare fee for post-school care for 3 kids, instead pays 300$/week for the post-school nanny.
- The kids (8, 6, and 6) can't POSSIBLY do chores or vacuum or fold laundry or change sheets or help out. Cleaning lady, 150$/week (note: I also have a cleaning person: 80$ every 2 weeks, and we do the in-between work, because it's a balance between sanity and money. I also don't whine about it to my colleagues because it's my choice and I live with it).
- THE SKI. OH MY FUCKING GOD. They're part of a rich-snotty-kid ski club and have related equipemnt purchases and family ski passes and it's 12 THOUSAND DOLLARS PER YEAR. POST-TAX. I was just like... you're aware that cross-country is an option, right?
... For the record: I track my kid-related spending in YNAB (not the extra food, but the stuff specifically for them). Clothes, gifts, swim classes, gear, new car seats, etc - we're looking at an average under 250/month. Which, sure, not cheap (and we could cut it down if we needed), but definitely not utterly outrageous.
Wait, so 10% of their income goes to ski club?? O.O
That's exactly what I'd say to them, too!
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Overheard at work, epic stupidity oh my FUCKING god.
"Oh, raising children is SO EXPENSIVE, I don't know how anyone does it, etc etc etc.", from someone whose family income is AT LEAST 120K/year (CAD).
Further clarification:
- Can't pay the 8$/day school daycare fee for post-school care for 3 kids, instead pays 300$/week for the post-school nanny.
- The kids (8, 6, and 6) can't POSSIBLY do chores or vacuum or fold laundry or change sheets or help out. Cleaning lady, 150$/week (note: I also have a cleaning person: 80$ every 2 weeks, and we do the in-between work, because it's a balance between sanity and money. I also don't whine about it to my colleagues because it's my choice and I live with it).
- THE SKI. OH MY FUCKING GOD. They're part of a rich-snotty-kid ski club and have related equipemnt purchases and family ski passes and it's 12 THOUSAND DOLLARS PER YEAR. POST-TAX. I was just like... you're aware that cross-country is an option, right?
... For the record: I track my kid-related spending in YNAB (not the extra food, but the stuff specifically for them). Clothes, gifts, swim classes, gear, new car seats, etc - we're looking at an average under 250/month. Which, sure, not cheap (and we could cut it down if we needed), but definitely not utterly outrageous.
Wait, so 10% of their income goes to ski club?? O.O
That's exactly what I'd say to them, too!
According to a quick back-of-envelope calculation, a 120K income leaves around 85K after taxes and supplemental health insurance (Quebec, and she's on my family health insurance so I know how much she pays).
So technically 14% of the family income goes to 4 months of weekend activities for children under 10.
OMFG, y'all, that's more than my mortgage. And I have a 5-bedroom house on 2 acres of land, near a lake!!
Edit to add: that 300/week of after-school childcare works out to 15K a year, on top of that. Plus the cleaning/folding laundry/bed-sheet-changing services, add another 7-8K.
So that's 1/3 of your take-home pay out, and you haven't even touched cars (2, on payment plans, and they commute separately), house (large-ish, in an expensive town half an hour away from where they both work), food (pre-made, neither cooks), clothes (all new, Banana Republic on the low end, designer rubber boots for rain days, etc)...
.. yeah. No wonder she's complaining about being broke. OMFG. I'm just... boggled.
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We paid about $10,000 last year for one of my autistic son's therapies. And I'm stopping it next month because I feel like we've reached the point of diminishing returns, such that it is no longer worth the cost. And we make way more than Kitsune's coworker. I just.... can't even imagine.
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"Oh, raising children spoiled ski bunnies is SO EXPENSIVE
Well, that's true.
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We paid about $10,000 last year for one of my autistic son's therapies. And I'm stopping it next month because I feel like we've reached the point of diminishing returns, such that it is no longer worth the cost. And we make way more than Kitsune's coworker. I just.... can't even imagine.
For me, one of the points of saving money is that if (for example) one of my kids was autistic and needed therapy, I could pay for what's needed without a second thought. Because it's important, so kudos to you for doing it.
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I automatically want to facepunch anyone who says children are expensive.
Obvious exception if the children are not healthy
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Not sure WHY these people share so much about themselves when they make such terrible choices but from an educational standpoint - thank you to them...
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I automatically want to facepunch anyone who says children are expensive.
Obvious exception if the children are not healthy
Childcare for my kids is expensive, but less expensive than the opportunity cost of one of us not working.
But I agree with your point. After childcare our largest child-related expense was college savings, until we decided to just front load and stop the monthly contributions.
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Comparable to plasmas back in the day, though.
I really liked plasma's and I do not understand why they did not survive the market. My 50in 2006 plasma tv (my only tv) has developed a horizontal pixel line. My earlier self would have replaced the unit in no time flat. My present self... well it's amazing what you end up getting used to :-). I will replace it, sooner or later.
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On the west coast skiing is very popular and some people do it for life. However, there is a nonprofit ski club that families can join so it’s affordable for a average family. It looks too me like she is using the most expensive option for everything which is stupid.
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Depending on the insurance company, this may not be possible. In the US anyway, a lot of insurance companies want to have every licensed driver listed for every covered car. They assume that everyone will have access to all the keys. I've even heard of some companies wanting to list platonic roommates.
It's not just every licensed driver, it can be every adult. My husband is blind and doesn't even have a driver's license but I am still required to have him listed on my car insurance since my profile says I am married. It works out because the decrease in premium due to being married is larger than the increase in premium for having him covered, but it still boggles my mind. Every time I have to renew I end up needed to call into customer service because the online system won't let me submit anything without inputting his license number (which he doesn't have).
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Not sure WHY these people share so much about themselves when they make such terrible choices but from an educational standpoint - thank you to them...
They think it's humble-bragging. They have no idea what they are actually revealing.
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It's not just every licensed driver, it can be every adult. My husband is blind and doesn't even have a driver's license but I am still required to have him listed on my car insurance since my profile says I am married. It works out because the decrease in premium due to being married is larger than the increase in premium for having him covered, but it still boggles my mind. Every time I have to renew I end up needed to call into customer service because the online system won't let me submit anything without inputting his license number (which he doesn't have).
Check your policy. It's probably because the coverage form says that all household members are covered when driving any vehicle. Probably the insurance company thinks it's as dumb as you do, but is hamstrung by insurance regulation or adverse case law in your state and here's where we all ended up.
-An insurance professional who thinks lots of parts of my industry are dumb.
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Cube mate just recently bought a brand new house, and has been actively spending money to furnish it, mostly using a designer to assist with picking stuff out. ALL of it is very expensive.
Her son had picked out a storage bed on WayFair that has been OOS for the past 6 weeks, and Mom is tired of waiting for it to come back in stock. Son is not complaining.
So today she picked a queen headboard/frame for him from Living Spaces. It's on sale for $450. She asked me if I think this would fit in the back of the Cayenne. I said yes, b/c it is an SUV, and this is put together furniture, should be no problem. Our other cube mate pipes up and says no, laughingly, b/c he doesn't want her to damage the Cayenne. She agrees w/me that it's not worth the $100 delivery fee, so she's going to pick it up.
Next, she's getting frustrated b/c the coupon code she has won't work. I come over to take a look, and she's using the wrong code. I help her put in the correct code, and this time, it works. Great. Before she hits submit, I suggest she check and make sure that the code was actually applied to the order. She sheepishly scrolls up and says, well since I had the coupon code, I decided to pay for delivery. The code was for $25. Grand total of the order was roughly $650. I just smiled to myself and ran over here to post while she went to the cafe to buy her lunch, like she does every day.
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At work: every single person making 50k+ brings in lunch every day.
Every single person making under 50K eats out minimum 3 time spent per week, usually more.
... how does that work, exactly?
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At work: every single person making 50k+ brings in lunch every day.
Every single person making under 50K eats out minimum 3 time spent per week, usually more.
... how does that work, exactly?
Around my office, the dividing line of going out versus bringing lunch is typically Age >~32ish. Which is funny because thats about how I did it, ate lunch all the time with the "crew" in 20s, now 35 and havent eaten lunch out more than once a month.
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At work: every single person making 50k+ brings in lunch every day.
Every single person making under 50K eats out minimum 3 time spent per week, usually more.
... how does that work, exactly?
Around my office, the dividing line of going out versus bringing lunch is typically Age >~32ish. Which is funny because thats about how I did it, ate lunch all the time with the "crew" in 20s, now 35 and havent eaten lunch out more than once a month.
Either the 50K+ people are Mustachians and have seen the light. Or they are old enough to have started to worry about their cholesterol and have figured out that a lunch from home is healthier than eating out.
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With the right brand shoes can really last. I bought "cheap" shoes for years and years before finding shoes that suddenly lasted 3-4 times longer than the cheap shoes and felt good enough to wear everyday.
Imagine that - feels good and lasts too.
An even better hack is to buy at least two pair of this perfect shoe. Wear them on alternate days and always keep them on shoe trees when not in use. You will be amazed at how much longer they last.
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At work: every single person making 50k+ brings in lunch every day.
Every single person making under 50K eats out minimum 3 time spent per week, usually more.
... how does that work, exactly?
Around my office, the dividing line of going out versus bringing lunch is typically Age >~32ish. Which is funny because thats about how I did it, ate lunch all the time with the "crew" in 20s, now 35 and havent eaten lunch out more than once a month.
Either the 50K+ people are Mustachians and have seen the light. Or they are old enough to have started to worry about their cholesterol and have figured out that a lunch from home is healthier than eating out.
You're totally right. The age divide is not absolute (there are a few people in their 50s who eat out) but it's definitely a link.
... mind, people don't 'eat out', it's the wrong term. They order in, and then eat their take-out lunch at the lunch table with everyone who brought their lunches.
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Are the people eating out single? Young people are usually single and above age 30 more people are usually married. Married people/people with families tend to not eat out as much because they have more responsibilities and bills, and because they cooked dinner the night before, or their wife/husband packed them a lunch.
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Are the people eating out single? Young people are usually single and above age 30 more people are usually married. Married people/people with families tend to not eat out as much because they have more responsibilities and bills, and because they cooked dinner the night before, or their wife/husband packed them a lunch.
No, that's 50/50, not related to age.
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At work: every single person making 50k+ brings in lunch every day.
Every single person making under 50K eats out minimum 3 time spent per week, usually more.
... how does that work, exactly?
That's an awfully specific knowledge of your co-workers' salaries there?
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At work: every single person making 50k+ brings in lunch every day.
Every single person making under 50K eats out minimum 3 time spent per week, usually more.
... how does that work, exactly?
That's an awfully specific knowledge of your co-workers' salaries there?
I process payroll.
... and I'd never give out detailed information, but I still know it.
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I also have an update: I've been overhearing a series of conversations between my mid 30's female co-worker, and a mid 20's female she has been quasi-mentoring.
The "mentee" has announced that she's moving out of her parents' house...into a $340,000 condo she will be renting from her parents. Over the course of several discussions, she has laid bare many insecurities regarding the level to which she is still dependent on them.
But the "mentor"--while giving tough love to the mentee--waits until she leaves and then (to me) will express genuine envy that parents are making things so easy. AFAICS, both of them have good jobs, but the real kicker is: "mentor" has put herself deeply in debt through buying cars and houses wayyy out of line with her income and constant travel far away places. And there's the matter of student loans still dogging her, too.
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I feel sorry for both of them
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I feel sorry for both of them
Seriously.
And because most people don't TALK about money in real ways (using actual numbers!), it's super hard to be young and know what's normal/reasonable/sensible/expected, if you see someone in your profession spending like that...
The singular most helpful thing anyone ever did for me: I mentioned to a friend who was 7 years older than me that I'd like to be where she was in 7 years but had no idea how to get there. She basically took me to her desk and opened up the details of her bank account, family budget, average spending, and investment accounts. Not something anyone ever does (god knows my parents never even had a budget), but I have no idea where I'd be right now without that half-hour conversation. Set expectations that were actually based on reality (that I could then modify to my personal priorities, but... reality-based expectations you can work with.)
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At work: every single person making 50k+ brings in lunch every day.
Every single person making under 50K eats out minimum 3 time spent per week, usually more.
... how does that work, exactly?
I eat out waaaay less now that I can afford to live on my own. If my roommate was in the shower I could go to the gym, but if my roommate was in the kitchen I had to go eat out.
I didn't move out on my own until I was making $59k/year. Here's why: https://obj.ca/article/prices-spike-supply-tightens-across-segments-ottawas-rental-market
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I eat out waaaay less now that I can afford to live on my own. If my roommate was in the shower I could go to the gym, but if my roommate was in the kitchen I had to go eat out.
@kelvin ,
"Had to"?????
"Had to"????
Couldn't wait a bit? Couldn't work around them? Couldn't work out a schedule that worked for both of you?
Would have literally starved to death if you didn't rush to the restaurant right then and there?
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A couple days ago DW's coworker asked DW to accompany her to get a tattoo after work, to which she declined. When DW went to work the next day she found out the tattoo was of coworker's new BF's name, of which she's been dating about a month. This coworker has a history of remarkably bad life decisions, so while I'm not surprised, it still makes my head spin.
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A couple days ago DW's coworker asked DW to accompany her to get a tattoo after work, to which she declined. When DW went to work the next day she found out the tattoo was of coworker's new BF's name, of which she's been dating about a month. This coworker has a history of remarkably bad life decisions, so while I'm not surprised, it still makes my head spin.
Keep an eye on this one. It shows promise for more stories.
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A couple days ago DW's coworker asked DW to accompany her to get a tattoo after work, to which she declined. When DW went to work the next day she found out the tattoo was of coworker's new BF's name, of which she's been dating about a month. This coworker has a history of remarkably bad life decisions, so while I'm not surprised, it still makes my head spin.
Keep an eye on this one. It shows promise for more stories.
OMG.
Well, there's a reason someone will spend 50$ on a tattoo and 500$ on a cover-up of said tattoo, I suppose.
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Never bought a tat, but I think $50 is probably low.
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Never bought a tat, but I think $50 is probably low.
Around here, a simple name with no ornamentation would be about that (based on 2 colleagues). A larger piece (say, 3-ish inches wide) would be in the low/mid-hundreds range, and a cover-up would be more because the work involved to design it is more complex. When I asked an artist I like about a half-sleeve, that would have come out to the low-thousands kind of range, and I quickly nope-ed right out of that.
Of course, that depends strongly on location and artist, but... yeah.
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Never bought a tat, but I think $50 is probably low.
Yes, definitely low. Some backstory - she's s single mom who's baby-daddy left her shortly after the child was born. Despite this, she co-signed a loan and credit card for him to start an over the road trucking company and buy his own semi. I believe he's maxed out credit cards in her name to the tune of somewhere around $80k. Oh, and I think the semi title is in her name. Though instead of taking him to court and at LEAST getting the semi in her possession and selling it to recover some expenses, she just keeps trudging along hoping everything will work out.
So @Warlord1986 yes, this shows great promise of future stories.
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Never bought a tat, but I think $50 is probably low.
Yes, definitely low. Some backstory - she's s single mom who's baby-daddy left her shortly after the child was born. Despite this, she co-signed a loan and credit card for him to start an over the road trucking company and buy his own semi. I believe he's maxed out credit cards in her name to the tune of somewhere around $80k. Oh, and I think the semi title is in her name. Though instead of taking him to court and at LEAST getting the semi in her possession and selling it to recover some expenses, she just keeps trudging along hoping everything will work out.
So @Warlord1986 yes, this shows great promise of future stories.
Oh, man, that poor kid. Growing up in that kind of situation and being taught those kind of life skills sets you up for something ROUGH.
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At work: every single person making 50k+ brings in lunch every day.
Every single person making under 50K eats out minimum 3 time spent per week, usually more.
... how does that work, exactly?
I went through 3 phases of eating out/bringing in:
Early years: made little money, brought lunch to save.
Middle years: had more money, bought lunch out as a break from stressful job
Late years: looking forward to retirement, bringing lunch to save $
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With the right brand shoes can really last. I bought "cheap" shoes for years and years before finding shoes that suddenly lasted 3-4 times longer than the cheap shoes and felt good enough to wear everyday.
Imagine that - feels good and lasts too.
An even better hack is to buy at least two pair of this perfect shoe. Wear them on alternate days and always keep them on shoe trees when not in use. You will be amazed at how much longer they last.
Thank you!
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With the right brand shoes can really last. I bought "cheap" shoes for years and years before finding shoes that suddenly lasted 3-4 times longer than the cheap shoes and felt good enough to wear everyday.
Imagine that - feels good and lasts too.
An even better hack is to buy at least two pair of this perfect shoe. Wear them on alternate days and always keep them on shoe trees when not in use. You will be amazed at how much longer they last.
Thank you!
Do they last more than twice as long? I am on pair 2 of 4 of my last stock up, but I just go through one pair at a time, unless I really want one of the other colors for a specific occasion.
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The owners of the company forgave the $60K “loan” and did not press charges, but this CW destroyed his professional reputation and ability to earn a living which he desperately needs (based on his debt load).
...Did the "loan forgiveness" result in an increased tax liability for this CW...?
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With the right brand shoes can really last. I bought "cheap" shoes for years and years before finding shoes that suddenly lasted 3-4 times longer than the cheap shoes and felt good enough to wear everyday.
Imagine that - feels good and lasts too.
An even better hack is to buy at least two pair of this perfect shoe. Wear them on alternate days and always keep them on shoe trees when not in use. You will be amazed at how much longer they last.
Thank you!
Do they last more than twice as long? I am on pair 2 of 4 of my last stock up, but I just go through one pair at a time, unless I really want one of the other colors for a specific occasion.
It's better for your feet, which is priority #1. Generally, allowing your shoes to dry and air out completely between wearing adds to their longevity significantly. Keeping them on shoe trees keeps them from stretching out of shape. It all adds up.
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With the right brand shoes can really last. I bought "cheap" shoes for years and years before finding shoes that suddenly lasted 3-4 times longer than the cheap shoes and felt good enough to wear everyday.
Imagine that - feels good and lasts too.
An even better hack is to buy at least two pair of this perfect shoe. Wear them on alternate days and always keep them on shoe trees when not in use. You will be amazed at how much longer they last.
Thank you!
Do they last more than twice as long? I am on pair 2 of 4 of my last stock up, but I just go through one pair at a time, unless I really want one of the other colors for a specific occasion.
It's better for your feet, which is priority #1. Generally, allowing your shoes to dry and air out completely between wearing adds to their longevity significantly. Keeping them on shoe trees keeps them from stretching out of shape. It all adds up.
While I believe there must be some benefit to this practice, I’m dubious that’s its significant. My shoes definitely dry out overnight due to climate. But wouldn’t the constant change in humidity actually be bad for the materials? Wouldn’t a stable humidity be preferable? In which case, you should leave your shoes on all the time!
Honestly it’s advice like this that has led to me having way too many pairs of dress shoes in retirement. Totally unmustachian.
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Yes, definitely low. Some backstory - she's s single mom who's baby-daddy left her shortly after the child was born. Despite this, she co-signed a loan and credit card for him to start an over the road trucking company and buy his own semi. I believe he's maxed out credit cards in her name to the tune of somewhere around $80k. Oh, and I think the semi title is in her name. Though instead of taking him to court and at LEAST getting the semi in her possession and selling it to recover some expenses, she just keeps trudging along hoping everything will work out.
So @Warlord1986 yes, this shows great promise of future stories.
This just makes me sad.
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With the right brand shoes can really last. I bought "cheap" shoes for years and years before finding shoes that suddenly lasted 3-4 times longer than the cheap shoes and felt good enough to wear everyday.
Imagine that - feels good and lasts too.
An even better hack is to buy at least two pair of this perfect shoe. Wear them on alternate days and always keep them on shoe trees when not in use. You will be amazed at how much longer they last.
Thank you!
Do they last more than twice as long? I am on pair 2 of 4 of my last stock up, but I just go through one pair at a time, unless I really want one of the other colors for a specific occasion.
It's better for your feet, which is priority #1. Generally, allowing your shoes to dry and air out completely between wearing adds to their longevity significantly. Keeping them on shoe trees keeps them from stretching out of shape. It all adds up.
While I believe there must be some benefit to this practice, I’m dubious that’s its significant. My shoes definitely dry out overnight due to climate. But wouldn’t the constant change in humidity actually be bad for the materials? Wouldn’t a stable humidity be preferable? In which case, you should leave your shoes on all the time!
Honestly it’s advice like this that has led to me having way too many pairs of dress shoes in retirement. Totally unmustachian.
My experience comes from fourteen years of working retail. It's a lot easier on your body if you don't wear the same shoes every day. Also, our temperate NorCal climate is much more forgiving than other parts of the world, drying out shoes is not so easy elsewhere. A thorough drying out also reduces/eliminates the stink factor for zero cost, which adds to the win.
For you specifically, @dragoncar, you're a rich dude who's already achieved FI, so it's a moot point. You can afford all.the.shoes. Even better, you can choose to wear none. Those work shoes you own can be polished, reheeled and even resoled if necessary. They're never going to go out of style. Women's shoe fashions are much more mercurial. Taking good care of the ones you have means you may never have to buy another pair of dress shoes in your life. #Winning.
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I own 5 pairs of shoes. One dressy and the rest casual.
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At a recent employee meeting, the executive team was asked whether our 401(k) could be improved by offering matching funds. The answer was no, citing low plan participation. I feel like that's a little bit of a chicken-or-egg type of situation, because I have to imagine that enthusiasm would be higher with matching funds as incentive. What's sad is that our plan isn't terrible -- all administration fees are being paid at the company level and our investment choices are decent, including a handful of institutional index funds with deliciously-low expense ratios. Lack of matching is all that separates this plan from being brag-worthy.
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At a recent employee meeting, the executive team was asked whether our 401(k) could be improved by offering matching funds. The answer was no, citing low plan participation. I feel like that's a little bit of a chicken-or-egg type of situation, because I have to imagine that enthusiasm would be higher with matching funds as incentive. What's sad is that our plan isn't terrible -- all administration fees are being paid at the company level and our investment choices are decent, including a handful of institutional index funds with deliciously-low expense ratios. Lack of matching is all that separates this plan from being brag-worthy.
I feel like that wasn't even an answer to the original question. It was a deflection. You answer no to the original question deflecting with a fact. Ultimately the executive team had no goal to improve the 401k plan with a loss. Even with a low participation the 401k could be improved by offering matching funds. Thankfully I wasnt at the employee meeting. I probably would have flipped my lid going off on the exec team and lost my job.
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At a recent employee meeting, the executive team was asked whether our 401(k) could be improved by offering matching funds. The answer was no, citing low plan participation. I feel like that's a little bit of a chicken-or-egg type of situation, because I have to imagine that enthusiasm would be higher with matching funds as incentive. What's sad is that our plan isn't terrible -- all administration fees are being paid at the company level and our investment choices are decent, including a handful of institutional index funds with deliciously-low expense ratios. Lack of matching is all that separates this plan from being brag-worthy.
I feel like that wasn't even an answer to the original question. It was a deflection. You answer no to the original question deflecting with a fact. Ultimately the executive team had no goal to improve the 401k plan with a loss. Even with a low participation the 401k could be improved by offering matching funds. Thankfully I wasnt at the employee meeting. I probably would have flipped my lid going off on the exec team and lost my job.
Agreed, this is a lie and the reason makes no sense. If the participation is low, that means the cost of adding a match is low, assuming many won't take advantage. It's not even a good excuse. You could even argue that participation would barely budge if they introduced it, so the cost won't be so bad.
My job only has a 1% match on the 403(b), but does provide a meager pension with no contribution from the employees. This is confusing for many people, who don't understand what a 403(b) is and don't want to find out, so I've found that many just are happy to have the pension and avoid adding anything to the 403(b) saying, "Well it's only 1%."
A co-worker about 15 years my senior, and who has been here over 20 years, told me he'd only ever contributed the minimum 1% a year since they introduced the match 10 years ago, and prior to that contributed nothing. Knowing his rough salary, he's MAYBE contributed $7K total in 20 years.
Which means in one year, I've contributed more than double what he has in two decades.
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The state I worked for didn’t have a match and I always contribute. I was shocked at the number of people that were fine with the pension alone. Crazy!
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At a recent employee meeting, the executive team was asked whether our 401(k) could be improved by offering matching funds. The answer was no, citing low plan participation. I feel like that's a little bit of a chicken-or-egg type of situation, because I have to imagine that enthusiasm would be higher with matching funds as incentive. What's sad is that our plan isn't terrible -- all administration fees are being paid at the company level and our investment choices are decent, including a handful of institutional index funds with deliciously-low expense ratios. Lack of matching is all that separates this plan from being brag-worthy.
I feel like that wasn't even an answer to the original question. It was a deflection. You answer no to the original question deflecting with a fact. Ultimately the executive team had no goal to improve the 401k plan with a loss. Even with a low participation the 401k could be improved by offering matching funds. Thankfully I wasnt at the employee meeting. I probably would have flipped my lid going off on the exec team and lost my job.
Agreed, this is a lie and the reason makes no sense. If the participation is low, that means the cost of adding a match is low, assuming many won't take advantage. It's not even a good excuse. You could even argue that participation would barely budge if they introduced it, so the cost won't be so bad.
My job only has a 1% match on the 403(b), but does provide a meager pension with no contribution from the employees. This is confusing for many people, who don't understand what a 403(b) is and don't want to find out, so I've found that many just are happy to have the pension and avoid adding anything to the 403(b) saying, "Well it's only 1%."
A co-worker about 15 years my senior, and who has been here over 20 years, told me he'd only ever contributed the minimum 1% a year since they introduced the match 10 years ago, and prior to that contributed nothing. Knowing his rough salary, he's MAYBE contributed $7K total in 20 years.
Which means in one year, I've contributed more than double what he has in two decades.
I know that there are restrictions on highly paid mgmt. stuffing matching funds into a 401k that their workers aren't participating in. (Obviously that provision was put in by congressmen who actually gave a damn about regular workers.)
Can't say definitively that's why, but it wouldn't surprise me.
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Highly compensated employee rules are why I don’t believe participation was even low. If it was low, they’d want to offer a small match to increase participation
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Highly compensated employee rules are why I don’t believe participation was even low. If it was low, they’d want to offer a small match to increase participation
Conveniently, the Form 5500 filing is public. Unless someone is grossly misreporting the numbers, only about 1 in 10 active employees have any 401(k) account balance at all.
And yes, I didn't find that answer/excuse/deflection satisfactory because it was obvious to me as well that low participation obviously means that just a little match shouldn't be expensive.
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The owners of the company forgave the $60K “loan” and did not press charges, but this CW destroyed his professional reputation and ability to earn a living which he desperately needs (based on his debt load).
...Did the "loan forgiveness" result in an increased tax liability for this CW...?
I have no idea if they reported the loan forgiveness as income or not. They probably should have.
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Matches don't improve participation by that much. My previous job involved benefit design and strategy for a large company. We had ~10 separate 401(k) plans and ~30 matching formulas due to union rules in some plans. Some of the matches were multiples better than others - 100% up to 6% vs. 50% up to 4% as an example.
- Plan participation tends to move with match some but it's not enough to say that increasing the match will increase participation.
- Even going from no match to match doesn't increase participation by much (we acquired some small companies with no match and they then went into our plans all of which matched).
- Income of course has a bigger impact - higher salaried groups contributed more.
- We did education as well and held lots of employee meetings to explain the benefits of the plan, the match, and so on. That helped participation but again only a little.
If a plan is failing discrimination testing or is close, only solution that works almost every time is automatic enrollment. That's the only way to measurably increase plan participation. We had some plans with automatic enrollment specifically because they were failing the test. For other plans, the business units did not want to implement auto-enrollment and we had to try the other options (none of which solved the issue). It's an unfortunate reality that auto-enrollment works because people won't take the initiative to opt-out.
Highly compensated employee rules are why I don’t believe participation was even low. If it was low, they’d want to offer a small match to increase participation
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Matches don't improve participation by that much. My previous job involved benefit design and strategy for a large company. We had ~10 separate 401(k) plans and ~30 matching formulas due to union rules in some plans. Some of the matches were multiples better than others - 100% up to 6% vs. 50% up to 4% as an example.
- Plan participation tends to move with match some but it's not enough to say that increasing the match will increase participation.
- Even going from no match to match doesn't increase participation by much (we acquired some small companies with no match and they then went into our plans all of which matched).
- Income of course has a bigger impact - higher salaried groups contributed more.
- We did education as well and held lots of employee meetings to explain the benefits of the plan, the match, and so on. That helped participation but again only a little.
If a plan is failing discrimination testing or is close, only solution that works almost every time is automatic enrollment. That's the only way to measurably increase plan participation. We had some plans with automatic enrollment specifically because they were failing the test. For other plans, the business units did not want to implement auto-enrollment and we had to try the other options (none of which solved the issue).
That's actually really interesting. I had always assumed that better plans would increase participation, but then again I'm not exactly poor. I guess if you don't have the money you don't have it. But then again most of those people manage to find it when it's opt-out...
It's an unfortunate reality that auto-enrollment works because people won't take the initiative to opt-out.
I don't think that's unfortunate, that sounds like a prime opportunity to be aware of mass psychology and use it to make the world a better place. Let's make 10% salary 401k participation and organ donation opt-out everywhere!
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Yeah, on the surface, we all thought that better plans would increase participation and it will but not much. Our plans were very good by any measure - very low expenses, good funds (Vanguard and BlackRock indexes), good matching on most of them, Roth conversion allowed, after-tax allowed, true-up matching, basically every feature that people might find valuable was there. Company took fiduciary responsibilities pretty seriously so we were constantly benchmarking to make sure our plans were on par. But it didn't make much difference. Making a plan better basically just increased the contributions of people who were already contributing, it didn't do much for those who were not. We saw similar issues with the wellness plans - incentives only worked on people who were already participating.
A lot of it is based on income, our lowest participation plans were those on the manufacturing side where it was hourly and starting pay was ~$15 an hour. It was frustrating though to be on site sometimes trying to get people to understand that they were leaving money on the table and the reason they gave for not participating was they just bought a new car...
Matches don't improve participation by that much. My previous job involved benefit design and strategy for a large company. We had ~10 separate 401(k) plans and ~30 matching formulas due to union rules in some plans. Some of the matches were multiples better than others - 100% up to 6% vs. 50% up to 4% as an example.
- Plan participation tends to move with match some but it's not enough to say that increasing the match will increase participation.
- Even going from no match to match doesn't increase participation by much (we acquired some small companies with no match and they then went into our plans all of which matched).
- Income of course has a bigger impact - higher salaried groups contributed more.
- We did education as well and held lots of employee meetings to explain the benefits of the plan, the match, and so on. That helped participation but again only a little.
If a plan is failing discrimination testing or is close, only solution that works almost every time is automatic enrollment. That's the only way to measurably increase plan participation. We had some plans with automatic enrollment specifically because they were failing the test. For other plans, the business units did not want to implement auto-enrollment and we had to try the other options (none of which solved the issue).
That's actually really interesting. I had always assumed that better plans would increase participation, but then again I'm not exactly poor. I guess if you don't have the money you don't have it. But then again most of those people manage to find it when it's opt-out...
It's an unfortunate reality that auto-enrollment works because people won't take the initiative to opt-out.
I don't think that's unfortunate, that sounds like a prime opportunity to be aware of mass psychology and use it to make the world a better place. Let's make 10% salary 401k participation and organ donation opt-out everywhere!
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I don't think that's unfortunate, that sounds like a prime opportunity to be aware of mass psychology and use it to make the world a better place. Let's make 10% salary 401k participation and organ donation opt-out everywhere!
That is called "nudging", which is generally seen as very bad. Except of course you nudge people towards what you want.
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I don't think that's unfortunate, that sounds like a prime opportunity to be aware of mass psychology and use it to make the world a better place. Let's make 10% salary 401k participation and organ donation opt-out everywhere!
That is called "nudging", which is generally seen as very bad. Except of course you nudge people towards what you want.
We're not talking about some sleazy guy trying to pick up girls at a bar. Both of the things I mentioned are widely regarded as good for society at large and the individuals in it. Are 401ks being tax-deductible "nudging" as well?
Also citation needed on it "generally being seen as very bad". I'm sure some people will criticize it and I'm sure there could be some unsavoury applications. But it seems generally desirable to me to be able to influence society for the better while ultimately leaving choice to the individual.
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I don't think that's unfortunate, that sounds like a prime opportunity to be aware of mass psychology and use it to make the world a better place. Let's make 10% salary 401k participation and organ donation opt-out everywhere!
That is called "nudging", which is generally seen as very bad. Except of course you nudge people towards what you want.
Why is nudging seen as really bad? The British government actually set up a behavioral economics group that was colloquially called “the nudge unit.” Freakonomics talks about it a lot and I think it’s a great thing.
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I don't think that's unfortunate, that sounds like a prime opportunity to be aware of mass psychology and use it to make the world a better place. Let's make 10% salary 401k participation and organ donation opt-out everywhere!
That is called "nudging", which is generally seen as very bad. Except of course you nudge people towards what you want.
Why is nudging seen as really bad? The British government actually set up a behavioral economics group that was colloquially called “the nudge unit.” Freakonomics talks about it a lot and I think it’s a great thing.
I mean, government, advertising, marketing, and most healthcare practices basically rely on the principle, so... I'd really need a citation on 'seen as very bad'.
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Please lay out the case for why--in a world with advertising, disinformation, and people who suffer from frequent failures of information and will power--nudging could be "bad"?
I see how it could be used for bad or good.
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I'll pile on. In my experience, nudging is generally seen as very good, especially when used to do things like increase 401k participation.
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I'll just add in that I like to "tax" myself.
For all you libertarians out there who consider taxation to be the same as theft, I'm doing it to my own dang self!
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I don't think that's unfortunate, that sounds like a prime opportunity to be aware of mass psychology and use it to make the world a better place. Let's make 10% salary 401k participation and organ donation opt-out everywhere!
That is called "nudging", which is generally seen as very bad. Except of course you nudge people towards what you want.
Why is nudging seen as really bad? The British government actually set up a behavioral economics group that was colloquially called “the nudge unit.” Freakonomics talks about it a lot and I think it’s a great thing.
I mean, government, advertising, marketing, and most healthcare practices basically rely on the principle, so... I'd really need a citation on 'seen as very bad'.
Let’s take 401k as an example. You have to have a default position, so you can view it as nudging people either way you set it up. Either you set opt-in enroll, in which case you know participation will be lower and therefore you are effectively choosing to nudge people in a direction which is bad for their long-term prospects, or you choose to set it up with auto enroll, nudging people in the direction of helping their future selves.
I see this at work actually. Our cafes offer all sorts of drinks in little glass-fronted fridges. The top part of the glass is clear and shows all manner of flavored sparkling and still water. The bottom half is frosted glass which is where the sodas are hidden. :)
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I don't think that's unfortunate, that sounds like a prime opportunity to be aware of mass psychology and use it to make the world a better place. Let's make 10% salary 401k participation and organ donation opt-out everywhere!
That is called "nudging", which is generally seen as very bad. Except of course you nudge people towards what you want.
Why is nudging seen as really bad? The British government actually set up a behavioral economics group that was colloquially called “the nudge unit.” Freakonomics talks about it a lot and I think it’s a great thing.
I mean, government, advertising, marketing, and most healthcare practices basically rely on the principle, so... I'd really need a citation on 'seen as very bad'.
Let’s take 401k as an example. You have to have a default position, so you can view it as nudging people either way you set it up. Either you set opt-in enroll, in which case you know participation will be lower and therefore you are effectively choosing to nudge people in a direction which is bad for their long-term prospects, or you choose to set it up with auto enroll, nudging people in the direction of helping their future selves.
I see this at work actually. Our cafes offer all sorts of drinks in little glass-fronted fridges. The top part of the glass is clear and shows all manner of flavored sparkling and still water. The bottom half is frosted glass which is where the sodas are hidden. :)
You also see that in home design - you want your house set-up to prompt you to do what you think you should be doing. So some people will put their TV in a piece of closed furniture but leave the books out in the open. People who want to eat as a family will keep space for a cleared-off kitchen table, people who don't care install a counter. People who want to go to the gym in the morning will pre-pack work clothes and lay out workout clothes - it's harder to avoid it when it's already set up.
It's self-nudging, sure, but it's the same concept, and it works as habit-forming.
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Now that is an interesting reaction. Maybe it's down to US / Europe difference?
When you say nudging here - and people actually know what you are talking about - than it generally bad things that comes to mind. The flashing red "click here" (and give me all your data) button compared to the barely visible "You can also click here" (but we won't get to sell your data damn!) for example.
All that stuff in the supermarket that makes you buy things that you either don't need, not even wanted (placing, light, artificial smells).
And of course, if you have a country where people decide out of your free will, nudging them is the opposite of that - you basically declare that they are too dumb to make a good decision.
That may be right or not, but a use of nudging is often seen as incombatible with democracy. (And I don't even have to point to China and their Social Credit system for the next step of nudging, right?)
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@LennStar I disagree with your opinion about the word nudging in Europe. Although I see where you're coming from with all the uses it has in promoting negative behavior, there's also plenty of nudging research towards positive behavior. E.g. at uni I had classes about how it could help to put fruits/veggies in more visible spots compared to let's say the chocolate bars. Another example is that many local governments and universities in my country have started shifting their catered lunches to vegetarian/vegan by default and people have to opt-in for a meat option (the opposite of what it used to be, where everything was meat/cheese and you had to request vegan food).
Now this may have been particularly related to my academic food/health environment and I don't talk with people about the pros and cons of nudging all day, but I am pretty sure it is not considered a universally bad thing.
I don't consider the Social Credit System a form of nudging btw, as actual nudging doesn't exclude you from any choices - it just changes the default choice. The Social Credit System literally gives you points for good/bad actions, it doesn't make the default choice any different.
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Now that is an interesting reaction. Maybe it's down to US / Europe difference?
When you say nudging here - and people actually know what you are talking about - than it generally bad things that comes to mind. The flashing red "click here" (and give me all your data) button compared to the barely visible "You can also click here" (but we won't get to sell your data damn!) for example.
All that stuff in the supermarket that makes you buy things that you either don't need, not even wanted (placing, light, artificial smells).
And of course, if you have a country where people decide out of your free will, nudging them is the opposite of that - you basically declare that they are too dumb to make a good decision.
That may be right or not, but a use of nudging is often seen as incombatible with democracy. (And I don't even have to point to China and their Social Credit system for the next step of nudging, right?)
I mean, some of that may definitely be cultural differences - the stuff in the supermarket, for example, is well-known and generally people roll their eyes about it. Kind of like how most people buy milk and eggs, so the supermarkets put it at the very back to make people walk by everything else and encourage more buying... it's annoying, but just how it is.
However, I just wanna address this: "a use of nudging is often seen as incombatible with democracy" - how things are set up fundamentally affect how people interact with it. It's basic social functionning. For example: do you legislate paid time off for people to go vote? You just encouraged people to go vote! (Do you make voting mandatory? Encouragement! Do you open voting booths for 5 hours during prime work hours? Cheaper, but massive discouragement/suppression. Etc.) Explicitly: we try to set up the society we want to live in, and how it's set up impacts how people behave within it, and the decisions people make.
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Now this may have been particularly related to my academic food/health environment and I don't talk with people about the pros and cons of nudging all day, but I am pretty sure it is not considered a universally bad thing.
I don't consider the Social Credit System a form of nudging btw, as actual nudging doesn't exclude you from any choices - it just changes the default choice. The Social Credit System literally gives you points for good/bad actions, it doesn't make the default choice any different.
Yeah the Social Credit is a bad example, sorry. It is often clad in nudging language, that is why I got on it.
I also don't go around asking people what they think about nudging. But when that topic comes up it is nearly always the bad things. I am certainly biased here, coming from a political background ;)
Yea, I know about that food thing you described. Placing fruits right at the start, in a nice display, and people get fruits 40% more or so.
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I'll just add in that I like to "tax" myself.
For all you libertarians out there who consider taxation to be the same as theft, I'm doing it to my own dang self!
Isn't our key philosophy-- take a sizable chunk of our income and invest it, and voluntarily refrain from doing other things with it-- a form of self-taxation?
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I don't think that's unfortunate, that sounds like a prime opportunity to be aware of mass psychology and use it to make the world a better place. Let's make 10% salary 401k participation and organ donation opt-out everywhere!
That is called "nudging", which is generally seen as very bad. Except of course you nudge people towards what you want.
Why is nudging seen as really bad? The British government actually set up a behavioral economics group that was colloquially called “the nudge unit.” Freakonomics talks about it a lot and I think it’s a great thing.
I mean, government, advertising, marketing, and most healthcare practices basically rely on the principle, so... I'd really need a citation on 'seen as very bad'.
Let’s take 401k as an example. You have to have a default position, so you can view it as nudging people either way you set it up. Either you set opt-in enroll, in which case you know participation will be lower and therefore you are effectively choosing to nudge people in a direction which is bad for their long-term prospects, or you choose to set it up with auto enroll, nudging people in the direction of helping their future selves.
I see this at work actually. Our cafes offer all sorts of drinks in little glass-fronted fridges. The top part of the glass is clear and shows all manner of flavored sparkling and still water. The bottom half is frosted glass which is where the sodas are hidden. :)
Now I'm thirsty for sparkling water.
You nudged me. And I liked it. Maybe I'm just a bit of a freak that way.
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I adore sparkling water!! One of the best perks of work in my opinion is sparkling water on tap.
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I'll just add in that I like to "tax" myself.
For all you libertarians out there who consider taxation to be the same as theft, I'm doing it to my own dang self!
Isn't our key philosophy-- take a sizable chunk of our income and invest it, and voluntarily refrain from doing other things with it-- a form of self-taxation?
Yes, but it is you doing it!!!
If the government does the same investing, it is always bad because every government worker is a complete idiot that has no idea on what he is working!!!!!
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Now that is an interesting reaction. Maybe it's down to US / Europe difference?
In many other places in Europe nudging seems more acceptable: several countries have an opt-out organ donor system for example.
I can imagine that government social intervention programs might be more cintroversial in your country for historic reasons.
If a company is enrolled in a pension scheme, participation of the individual employees is mandatory and the contribution is automatically deducted from a person's wages. Technically there is a way to opt out, if people really truly want to, but that's not a widely known option and everyone in payroll tries to keep it that way. I would not lie if directly asked but I would never bring it up myself.
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If the government does the same investing, it is always bad because every government worker is a complete idiot that has no idea on what he is working!!!!!
Or maybe because the "ROI" of various mandatory "retirement" programs is dismal?
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@LennStar I disagree with your opinion about the word nudging in Europe. Although I see where you're coming from with all the uses it has in promoting negative behavior, there's also plenty of nudging research towards positive behavior. E.g. at uni I had classes about how it could help to put fruits/veggies in more visible spots compared to let's say the chocolate bars. Another example is that many local governments and universities in my country have started shifting their catered lunches to vegetarian/vegan by default and people have to opt-in for a meat option (the opposite of what it used to be, where everything was meat/cheese and you had to request vegan food).
Now this may have been particularly related to my academic food/health environment and I don't talk with people about the pros and cons of nudging all day, but I am pretty sure it is not considered a universally bad thing.
I don't consider the Social Credit System a form of nudging btw, as actual nudging doesn't exclude you from any choices - it just changes the default choice. The Social Credit System literally gives you points for good/bad actions, it doesn't make the default choice any different.
Another datapoint: I work with environmental issues in the Nordics, and we provide classes training people in nudging. It is definetly seen as a positive thing. I guess the difference in perception might be that both we and the health people try to nugde people towards behaviour that everyone agrees is preferrable? (Bike racks closer to the door than parking places for cars, to make it easier to choose the bike. Smaller plates at buffees, to reduce food waste. Double sided printouts as the default option to reduce use of paper. etc.)
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Now that is an interesting reaction. Maybe it's down to US / Europe difference?
When you say nudging here - and people actually know what you are talking about - than it generally bad things that comes to mind. The flashing red "click here" (and give me all your data) button compared to the barely visible "You can also click here" (but we won't get to sell your data damn!) for example.
All that stuff in the supermarket that makes you buy things that you either don't need, not even wanted (placing, light, artificial smells).
And of course, if you have a country where people decide out of your free will, nudging them is the opposite of that - you basically declare that they are too dumb to make a good decision.
That may be right or not, but a use of nudging is often seen as incombatible with democracy. (And I don't even have to point to China and their Social Credit system for the next step of nudging, right?)
Not at all: the US is full of nudging, most people just don't choose to see it. Some of it is run by private companies - opinions seem to differ on whether letting non-democratically-controlled institutions have such power makes a country better or worse.
Credit Scores?
The way roads and neighbourhoods are designed?
Tax deductions for mortgages?
All the oil-related wars?
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Not at all: the US is full of nudging, most people just don't choose to see it.
Tax deductions for mortgages?
I've always wondered about that. Is it an incentive to buy? Here (Canada) our mortgage interest is not tax-deductible, but houses are not eligible for capital gains or losses either. They are outside that part of the tax world. They are seen (tax-wise) as homes, not investments. A second home or cottage is not treated the same, it is subject to all the investment rules.
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Not at all: the US is full of nudging, most people just don't choose to see it.
Tax deductions for mortgages?
I've always wondered about that. Is it an incentive to buy? Here (Canada) our mortgage interest is not tax-deductible, but houses are not eligible for capital gains or losses either. They are outside that part of the tax world. They are seen (tax-wise) as homes, not investments. A second home or cottage is not treated the same, it is subject to all the investment rules.
The mortgage tax deduction, as written for many years, had the following two purposes:
1) To give people who could afford very expensive homes a very nice tax break and,
2) To convince middle class people who did not understand they wouldn't actually get to use the deduction that they could afford a more expensive house, so the bankers would make more money on interest.
Very few regular folks could take advantage of it.
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Not at all: the US is full of nudging, most people just don't choose to see it.
Tax deductions for mortgages?
I've always wondered about that. Is it an incentive to buy? Here (Canada) our mortgage interest is not tax-deductible, but houses are not eligible for capital gains or losses either. They are outside that part of the tax world. They are seen (tax-wise) as homes, not investments. A second home or cottage is not treated the same, it is subject to all the investment rules.
The mortgage tax deduction, as written for many years, had the following two purposes:
1) To give people who could afford very expensive homes a very nice tax break and,
2) To convince middle class people who did not understand they wouldn't actually get to use the deduction that they could afford a more expensive house, so the bankers would make more money on interest.
Very few regular folks could take advantage of it.
Given this, I think I prefer Canadian tax policy on houses and mortgages. We can't declare interest*, we can't declare a capital gain or a capital loss. A house as principal residence is n ot an investment.
People sure do want to own one anyway.
*Well, technically. You can borrow based on home equity to invest, and then declare that interest.
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I've always wondered about that. Is it an incentive to buy?
I'm not quite as cynical as SwordGuy and RetiredAt63, or at least not as outwardly cynical. :)
As I understand it, the "nominal" purpose of the mortgage interest deduction is to encourage homeownership in general, because homeownership rates are correlated with a better economy. IMO, policymakers have it backwards (a robust economy leads to higher homeownership, not vice versa), but like many entitlements/giveaways/deductions/credits/etc has metastasized to the point that getting rid of it would cause a huge uproar.
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I've always wondered about that. Is it an incentive to buy?
I'm not quite as cynical as SwordGuy and RetiredAt63, or at least not as outwardly cynical. :)
As I understand it, the "nominal" purpose of the mortgage interest deduction is to encourage homeownership in general, because homeownership rates are correlated with a better economy. IMO, policymakers have it backwards (a robust economy leads to higher homeownership, not vice versa), but like many entitlements/giveaways/deductions/credits/etc has metastasized to the point that getting rid of it would cause a huge uproar.
Yep, by middle class folks who can't do math and don't understand tax law, who have been brainwashed into thinking it's a good deal for all of them.
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I've always wondered about that. Is it an incentive to buy?
I'm not quite as cynical as SwordGuy and RetiredAt63, or at least not as outwardly cynical. :)
As I understand it, the "nominal" purpose of the mortgage interest deduction is to encourage homeownership in general, because homeownership rates are correlated with a better economy. IMO, policymakers have it backwards (a robust economy leads to higher homeownership, not vice versa), but like many entitlements/giveaways/deductions/credits/etc has metastasized to the point that getting rid of it would cause a huge uproar.
Yep, by middle class folks who can't do math and don't understand tax law, who have been brainwashed into thinking it's a good deal for all of them.
My husband has a coworker who keeps telling him we need to buy because it will save us money on taxes...
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I've always wondered about that. Is it an incentive to buy?
I'm not quite as cynical as SwordGuy and RetiredAt63, or at least not as outwardly cynical. :)
As I understand it, the "nominal" purpose of the mortgage interest deduction is to encourage homeownership in general, because homeownership rates are correlated with a better economy. IMO, policymakers have it backwards (a robust economy leads to higher homeownership, not vice versa), but like many entitlements/giveaways/deductions/credits/etc has metastasized to the point that getting rid of it would cause a huge uproar.
Yep, by middle class folks who can't do math and don't understand tax law, who have been brainwashed into thinking it's a good deal for all of them.
My husband has a coworker who keeps telling him we need to buy because it will save us money on taxes...
Well, if renting is the same cost as PITI, he's right. But I doubt it is.
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I've always wondered about that. Is it an incentive to buy?
I'm not quite as cynical as SwordGuy and RetiredAt63, or at least not as outwardly cynical. :)
As I understand it, the "nominal" purpose of the mortgage interest deduction is to encourage homeownership in general, because homeownership rates are correlated with a better economy. IMO, policymakers have it backwards (a robust economy leads to higher homeownership, not vice versa), but like many entitlements/giveaways/deductions/credits/etc has metastasized to the point that getting rid of it would cause a huge uproar.
Yep, by middle class folks who can't do math and don't understand tax law, who have been brainwashed into thinking it's a good deal for all of them.
My husband has a coworker who keeps telling him we need to buy because it will save us money on taxes...
Well, if renting is the same cost as PITI, he's right. But I doubt it is.
And that's one of the huge misunderstandings in the US. For most (no, I don't have the exact statistic at hand but it's on the IRS website) people in the US, the mortgage interest and property tax deductions do NOT help them at all in reducing their income taxes. The standard deduction is higher than their itemized deductions. That was true under the "old" tax law and is even more true under the "new" tax law with the higher standard deductions.
The HCOL/VHCOL areas have a slightly different issue but most people don't live in those areas. I really wish more people understood how deductions work.
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I've always wondered about that. Is it an incentive to buy?
I'm not quite as cynical as SwordGuy and RetiredAt63, or at least not as outwardly cynical. :)
As I understand it, the "nominal" purpose of the mortgage interest deduction is to encourage homeownership in general, because homeownership rates are correlated with a better economy. IMO, policymakers have it backwards (a robust economy leads to higher homeownership, not vice versa), but like many entitlements/giveaways/deductions/credits/etc has metastasized to the point that getting rid of it would cause a huge uproar.
Yep, by middle class folks who can't do math and don't understand tax law, who have been brainwashed into thinking it's a good deal for all of them.
My husband has a coworker who keeps telling him we need to buy because it will save us money on taxes...
Well, if renting is the same cost as PITI, he's right. But I doubt it is.
And that's one of the huge misunderstandings in the US. For most (no, I don't have the exact statistic at hand but it's on the IRS website) people in the US, the mortgage interest and property tax deductions do NOT help them at all in reducing their income taxes. The standard deduction is higher than their itemized deductions. That was true under the "old" tax law and is even more true under the "new" tax law with the higher standard deductions.
The HCOL/VHCOL areas have a slightly different issue but most people don't live in those areas. I really wish more people understood how deductions work.
I mean, at a baseline, I really wish more people understood how MONEY works.
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Co-worker was ticked off at the dealership this morning. He had made a deal to renew his lease on a new CR-V and they just texted him that the red one he wanted was not available. As I talked with him I got the background of this story. His currently leased car had a recall and the dealership convinced him to just renew his lease and get a new one since he could keep the same payments.
Me: Sorry man, dealerships are the worse I would say if they don't have the red one you should just cancel the whole deal. The recall is free anyways just get them to fix it and keep your current one, don't rush into a new lease just because of a recall.
Co-worker: No way, it's also due for maintenance of about $200. Well I guess I will just settle for the sliver one.
Me: Have you ever thought about not leasing and own your car and drive it until it stops running.
Co-worker: I will never own a car I like the fact that I get a new car every two years by leasing and besides my payments are only $240 bi-weekly and they aren't going up, why would anyone stay with a older car.
Me: (After giving up on changing his mind on leasing) I am sure you will like the sliver one, congrats on the new car.
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Co-worker was ticked off at the dealership this morning. He had made a deal to renew his lease on a new CR-V and they just texted him that the red one he wanted was not available. As I talked with him I got the background of this story. His currently leased car had a recall and the dealership convinced him to just renew his lease and get a new one since he could keep the same payments.
Me: Sorry man, dealerships are the worse I would say if they don't have the red one you should just cancel the whole deal. The recall is free anyways just get them to fix it and keep your current one, don't rush into a new lease just because of a recall.
Co-worker: No way, it's also due for maintenance of about $200. Well I guess I will just settle for the sliver one.
Me: Have you ever thought about not leasing and own your car and drive it until it stops running.
Co-worker: I will never own a car I like the fact that I get a new car every two years by leasing and besides my payments are only $240 bi-weekly and they aren't going up, why would anyone stay with a older car.
Me: (After giving up on changing his mind on leasing) I am sure you will like the sliver one, congrats on the new car.
$240 bi-weekly is $480 a month! That's like, our family's monthly grocery bill!
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Co-worker was ticked off at the dealership this morning. He had made a deal to renew his lease on a new CR-V and they just texted him that the red one he wanted was not available. As I talked with him I got the background of this story. His currently leased car had a recall and the dealership convinced him to just renew his lease and get a new one since he could keep the same payments.
Me: Sorry man, dealerships are the worse I would say if they don't have the red one you should just cancel the whole deal. The recall is free anyways just get them to fix it and keep your current one, don't rush into a new lease just because of a recall.
Co-worker: No way, it's also due for maintenance of about $200. Well I guess I will just settle for the sliver one.
Me: Have you ever thought about not leasing and own your car and drive it until it stops running.
Co-worker: I will never own a car I like the fact that I get a new car every two years by leasing and besides my payments are only $240 bi-weekly and they aren't going up, why would anyone stay with a older car.
Me: (After giving up on changing his mind on leasing) I am sure you will like the sliver one, congrats on the new car.
$240 bi-weekly is $480 a month! That's like, our family's monthly grocery bill!
The monthly payment on my first house was only just over $500.
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The monthly payment on my first house was only just over $500.
I didn't have the energy or time to try to explain to my co-worker that paying for the first two years of depreciation on a car every two years is a bad economical decision.
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The monthly payment on my first house was only just over $500.
I didn't have the energy or time to try to explain to my co-worker that paying for the first two years of depreciation on a car every two years is a bad economical decision.
Hey, you tried to help. And once it was clear the help wasn't wanted, you gracefully stopped. Sometimes that's the best you can do.
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The monthly payment on my first house was only just over $500.
I didn't have the energy or time to try to explain to my co-worker that paying for the first two years of depreciation on a car every two years is a bad economical decision.
Hey, you tried to help. And once it was clear the help wasn't wanted, you gracefully stopped. Sometimes that's the best you can do.
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$240 bi-weekly is $480 a month! That's like, our family's monthly grocery bill!
That's like 10 times of my payments (calculatory depreciation) if my car holds itself as good as I hope (and tests say it should)!
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Co-worker was ticked off at the dealership this morning. He had made a deal to renew his lease on a new CR-V and they just texted him that the red one he wanted was not available. As I talked with him I got the background of this story. His currently leased car had a recall and the dealership convinced him to just renew his lease and get a new one since he could keep the same payments.
Me: Sorry man, dealerships are the worse I would say if they don't have the red one you should just cancel the whole deal. The recall is free anyways just get them to fix it and keep your current one, don't rush into a new lease just because of a recall.
Co-worker: No way, it's also due for maintenance of about $200. Well I guess I will just settle for the sliver one.
Me: Have you ever thought about not leasing and own your car and drive it until it stops running.
Co-worker: I will never own a car I like the fact that I get a new car every two years by leasing and besides my payments are only $240 bi-weekly and they aren't going up, why would anyone stay with a older car.
Me: (After giving up on changing his mind on leasing) I am sure you will like the sliver one, congrats on the new car.
$240 bi-weekly is $480 a month! That's like, our family's monthly grocery bill!
What's really scary is comparing it directly to a car. I bought a 2010 Prius approximately 4 years ago. I paid about $11k for it in cash. 48 months x $480 = $23,040. So in 4 years of owning my Prius, I've saved over $12k compared to that guy. For every year I keep my Prius, I'm saving over $5700/year compared to him.
He may be (probably is) driving a nicer car than me, but still. That $$ adds up really fast. Also, a Prius may be boring, but the gas efficiency, the cheap maintenance (it's a reliable Toyota, hasn't had any issues, just pay for regular expected maintenance), and the surprising amount of carrying capacity thanks to the hatchback is amazing. I love my "boring" and "old" car. And I get to keep $480/month too! Wow. ;)
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I am so far gone I don't even understand wanting a new car every two years. I actually like being familiar with my car!
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The monthly payment on my first house was only just over $500.
I didn't have the energy or time to try to explain to my co-worker that paying for the first two years of depreciation on a car every two years is a bad economical decision.
I don't even bother trying to explain this to my parents and in-laws.
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Now this may have been particularly related to my academic food/health environment and I don't talk with people about the pros and cons of nudging all day, but I am pretty sure it is not considered a universally bad thing.
I don't consider the Social Credit System a form of nudging btw, as actual nudging doesn't exclude you from any choices - it just changes the default choice. The Social Credit System literally gives you points for good/bad actions, it doesn't make the default choice any different.
Yeah the Social Credit is a bad example, sorry. It is often clad in nudging language, that is why I got on it.
I also don't go around asking people what they think about nudging. But when that topic comes up it is nearly always the bad things. I am certainly biased here, coming from a political background ;)
Yea, I know about that food thing you described. Placing fruits right at the start, in a nice display, and people get fruits 40% more or so.
Good nudging is not coercive - it still allows the individual to maintain their freedom of choice, but tends to steer them in the direction of the decision with the better long-term outcome
Most of the "good" examples of nudging take one of two forms:
-Make the "best" choice(subjective) the default choice - e.g. opt-out vs. opt-in systems
-Make it minimally burdensome to make the "good" decision - eliminate as many barriers as possible that might otherwise deter someone from the desired behavior. (and conversely, potentially make it slightly more difficult to achieve the undesirable behavior)
A good "nudging" system isn't punitive - it preserves free will while generally improving outcomes for those who make the "lazy" choice (or non-choice), and makes good choices "easier" to make than bad ones.
For those in this thread unfamiliar with the subject, Richard Thaler's books ("Misbehaving" and "Nudge") are an excellent place to pick up the basics of behavioral economics and origin of the concept of nudging.
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The monthly payment on my first house was only just over $500.
That was the principal and interest on our first house, at 9 3/8ths percent interest! Yikes!
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Co-worker was ticked off at the dealership this morning. He had made a deal to renew his lease on a new CR-V and they just texted him that the red one he wanted was not available. As I talked with him I got the background of this story. His currently leased car had a recall and the dealership convinced him to just renew his lease and get a new one since he could keep the same payments.
Me: Sorry man, dealerships are the worse I would say if they don't have the red one you should just cancel the whole deal. The recall is free anyways just get them to fix it and keep your current one, don't rush into a new lease just because of a recall.
Co-worker: No way, it's also due for maintenance of about $200. Well I guess I will just settle for the sliver one.
Me: Have you ever thought about not leasing and own your car and drive it until it stops running.
Co-worker: I will never own a car I like the fact that I get a new car every two years by leasing and besides my payments are only $240 bi-weekly and they aren't going up, why would anyone stay with a older car.
Me: (After giving up on changing his mind on leasing) I am sure you will like the sliver one, congrats on the new car.
$240 bi-weekly is $480 a month! That's like, our family's monthly grocery bill!
Actually, $520/month. (26 payments per year)
My god, I can’t believe how commonly people make these astonishingly terrible decisions. And then complain about being broke.
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Co-worker was ticked off at the dealership this morning. He had made a deal to renew his lease on a new CR-V and they just texted him that the red one he wanted was not available. As I talked with him I got the background of this story. His currently leased car had a recall and the dealership convinced him to just renew his lease and get a new one since he could keep the same payments.
Me: Sorry man, dealerships are the worse I would say if they don't have the red one you should just cancel the whole deal. The recall is free anyways just get them to fix it and keep your current one, don't rush into a new lease just because of a recall.
Co-worker: No way, it's also due for maintenance of about $200. Well I guess I will just settle for the sliver one.
Me: Have you ever thought about not leasing and own your car and drive it until it stops running.
Co-worker: I will never own a car I like the fact that I get a new car every two years by leasing and besides my payments are only $240 bi-weekly and they aren't going up, why would anyone stay with a older car.
Me: (After giving up on changing his mind on leasing) I am sure you will like the sliver one, congrats on the new car.
$240 bi-weekly is $480 a month! That's like, our family's monthly grocery bill!
Actually, $520/month. (26 payments per year)
My god, I can’t believe how commonly people make these astonishingly terrible decisions. And then complain about being broke.
I do agree that leasing a car is not profitable in the long run.
But if I calculate how much our main car has depreciated through the years, we have have also paid a pretty large sum for the car per year. In our case, we paid cash for a brand new car, so the money was fully spent at the time we bought it. Now we only pay for maintenance. But maybe it is first now, 10 years old, that the car has stopped depreciating so much per year.
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But if I calculate how much our main car has depreciated through the years, we have have also paid a pretty large sum for the car per year. In our case, we paid cash for a brand new car, so the money was fully spent at the time we bought it. Now we only pay for maintenance. But maybe it is first now, 10 years old, that the car has stopped depreciating so much per year.
Basically, when I buy a car I assume the resale value is $200, regardless of whether I paid $3500 for it or $16,000 for it.
That's because I won't even consider selling it until it's worth that much or less. I will drive that vehicle into the ground.
So, for me, all depreciation comes on day 1. I buy when I have to and not before, so, since I have to buy a car, I don't get bothered because it will lose value. It has no monetary value to me. It's an expense that provides transportation.
The only reason I would consider it for net worth purposes would be if I had a loan on it. At that point it would be worth the lessor of 80% of what I paid for it or the balance of the loan. That's because I could, in principle, sell it to discharge the car debt. I now pay cash for the cars so I haven't had to do this calculation in 10 years.
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doesn't matter if it's $480 or $520 per month.
It's $ X/month ONLY. Keyword ONLY.
That softens the blow and makes the swallowing/shafting palatable.
ONLY = salesman talk for "Let me gently bend you over. I'll throw in mats and pinstriping for free."
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I am so far gone I don't even understand wanting a new car every two years. I actually like being familiar with my car!
I feel that way about phones. When most people are exchanging theirs, I've just finished setting mine up the way I like it!
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I am so far gone I don't even understand wanting a new car every two years. I actually like being familiar with my car!
Especially since I do 90% of my own car maintenance/repair, tenure is a huge benefit. Not only do I know where everything is and how to get it on/off, I'm also the last person to remove and replace those nuts and bolts, which means they haven't been over-torqued, and likely have anti-seize on them!
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I've always wondered about that. Is it an incentive to buy?
I'm not quite as cynical as SwordGuy and RetiredAt63, or at least not as outwardly cynical. :)
As I understand it, the "nominal" purpose of the mortgage interest deduction is to encourage homeownership in general, because homeownership rates are correlated with a better economy. IMO, policymakers have it backwards (a robust economy leads to higher homeownership, not vice versa), but like many entitlements/giveaways/deductions/credits/etc has metastasized to the point that getting rid of it would cause a huge uproar.
Yep, by middle class folks who can't do math and don't understand tax law, who have been brainwashed into thinking it's a good deal for all of them.
My husband has a coworker who keeps telling him we need to buy because it will save us money on taxes...
Well, if renting is the same cost as PITI, he's right. But I doubt it is.
And that's one of the huge misunderstandings in the US. For most (no, I don't have the exact statistic at hand but it's on the IRS website) people in the US, the mortgage interest and property tax deductions do NOT help them at all in reducing their income taxes. The standard deduction is higher than their itemized deductions. That was true under the "old" tax law and is even more true under the "new" tax law with the higher standard deductions.
The HCOL/VHCOL areas have a slightly different issue but most people don't live in those areas. I really wish more people understood how deductions work.
I mean, at a baseline, I really wish more people understood how MONEY works.
If only...
I left out the other half of what that coworker says, which is that the deductions also mean we can buy an even bigger house!
Were in the Denver metro, so rent is high but houses are higher. Though weve gone with option 3, which is staying with my in laws. Obviously that's not an option for everyone. We pay them rent each month plus contribute to other things like groceries andsuch, and help them with projects around the house. In the mean time we have paid off student loans, two unmustachian vehicles, paid cash for our wedding, and now have a nice downpayment fund we keep adding to as we begin house hunting (or debate moving out of state which is on the table).
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Co-worker was ticked off at the dealership this morning. He had made a deal to renew his lease on a new CR-V and they just texted him that the red one he wanted was not available. As I talked with him I got the background of this story. His currently leased car had a recall and the dealership convinced him to just renew his lease and get a new one since he could keep the same payments.
Me: Sorry man, dealerships are the worse I would say if they don't have the red one you should just cancel the whole deal. The recall is free anyways just get them to fix it and keep your current one, don't rush into a new lease just because of a recall.
Co-worker: No way, it's also due for maintenance of about $200. Well I guess I will just settle for the sliver one.
Me: Have you ever thought about not leasing and own your car and drive it until it stops running.
Co-worker: I will never own a car I like the fact that I get a new car every two years by leasing and besides my payments are only $240 bi-weekly and they aren't going up, why would anyone stay with a older car.
Me: (After giving up on changing his mind on leasing) I am sure you will like the sliver one, congrats on the new car.
I dunno, 10-15 years of no car payment?
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Overheard a guy telling his friends about his shoes. One friend asked him how much they cost. His response: “¥8000...I’m not really sure, I didn’t really pay attention when I was paying.”
That’s about $1300 USD. That’s more than a typical person’s monthly salary here.
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Overheard a guy telling his friends about his shoes. One friend asked him how much they cost. His response: “¥8000...I’m not really sure, I didn’t really pay attention when I was paying.”
That’s about $1300 USD. That’s more than a typical person’s monthly salary here.
I'm assuming that's Chinese Yuan? The same symbol is used for Japanese Yen, which at today's exchange rates comes out to less than $75
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Overheard a guy telling his friends about his shoes. One friend asked him how much they cost. His response: “¥8000...I’m not really sure, I didn’t really pay attention when I was paying.”
That’s about $1300 USD. That’s more than a typical person’s monthly salary here.
I'm assuming that's Chinese Yuan? The same symbol is used for Japanese Yen, which at today's exchange rates comes out to less than $75
I guess that's it, it means Yuan. I ran into the same trap ^^ and did a hah??? until I realized.
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Overheard a guy telling his friends about his shoes. One friend asked him how much they cost. His response: “¥8000...I’m not really sure, I didn’t really pay attention when I was paying.”
That’s about $1300 USD. That’s more than a typical person’s monthly salary here.
I'm assuming that's Chinese Yuan? The same symbol is used for Japanese Yen, which at today's exchange rates comes out to less than $75
I guess that's it, it means Yuan. I ran into the same trap ^^ and did a hah??? until I realized.
Yes, yuan/kuai/RMB. That’s why I included the conversion to USD as well. Though $75 for a pair of sneakers is still quite a lot.
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Overheard a guy telling his friends about his shoes. One friend asked him how much they cost. His response: “¥8000...I’m not really sure, I didn’t really pay attention when I was paying.”
That’s about $1300 USD. That’s more than a typical person’s monthly salary here.
I'm assuming that's Chinese Yuan? The same symbol is used for Japanese Yen, which at today's exchange rates comes out to less than $75
I guess that's it, it means Yuan. I ran into the same trap ^^ and did a hah??? until I realized.
Yes, yuan/kuai/RMB. That’s why I included the conversion to USD as well. Though $75 for a pair of sneakers is still quite a lot.
The way that the Chinese middle class and younger generation spend on consumer goods is just insane. Sadly, they've really bought into that aspect of American culture with a vengeance. Living above your means and taking consumer loans is now considered normal :(
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I am so far gone I don't even understand wanting a new car every two years. I actually like being familiar with my car!
+1
I dread getting something with a !#$% touch screen and I don't want to worry about dents and scratches. We buy our cars "pre-dented".
I kept my last two cars for 10+ years each (after purchasing used).
Also haven't had a car payment since 1997 and *that* was $115 / month.
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On topic:
I know someone who was let go from a job. He told me that they closed his 401k and gave him a check. I said, "Did you roll it into an IRA?" Nope. "I needed the money." Facepalm.
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On topic:
I know someone who was let go from a job. He told me that they closed his 401k and gave him a check. I said, "Did you roll it into an IRA?" Nope. "I needed the money." Facepalm.
April 15th 2020 - Big tax bill due - did you mention this to him ? .
Co-workers relative cashed in a $100K+ / 401K balance, when he got frustrated with his job and quit. Had a grand 'ol time for a few months, Big truck, party everyday. Got hired back at the same employer, he was a good worker. They recently fired him [ was on "new hire" probabtion ] - His $30K outstanding debt to the IRS was one of the reasons cited. [security clearance] . Big truck is long gone as well.
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On topic:
I know someone who was let go from a job. He told me that they closed his 401k and gave him a check. I said, "Did you roll it into an IRA?" Nope. "I needed the money." Facepalm.
April 15th 2020 - Big tax bill due - did you mention this to him ? .
Co-workers relative cashed in a $100K+ / 401K balance, when he got frustrated with his job and quit. Had a grand 'ol time for a few months, Big truck, party everyday. Got hired back at the same employer, he was a good worker. They recently fired him [ was on "new hire" probabtion ] - His $30K outstanding debt to the IRS was one of the reasons cited. [security clearance] . Big truck is long gone as well.
Some people are just dumb as a stump.
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On topic:
I know someone who was let go from a job. He told me that they closed his 401k and gave him a check. I said, "Did you roll it into an IRA?" Nope. "I needed the money." Facepalm.
April 15th 2020 - Big tax bill due - did you mention this to him ? .
Co-workers relative cashed in a $100K+ / 401K balance, when he got frustrated with his job and quit. Had a grand 'ol time for a few months, Big truck, party everyday. Got hired back at the same employer, he was a good worker. They recently fired him [ was on "new hire" probation ] - His $30K outstanding debt to the IRS was one of the reasons cited. [security clearance] . Big truck is long gone as well.
Yes, he knew about the tax bill. This was a couple of years ago. All the money has been spent. Your coworker - Yikes!
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One of my coworkers doesn't like to make the half-mile trek from our designated parking lot to our building, so most mornings she parks on the street right outside so that she doesn't have to be bothered "by the cold". So she spend $7-10/day for parking each day while still paying the $37/month for her parking pass that she uses maybe twice a month when she actually parks in the regular lot. She also goes out to lunch every single day, but then of course complains that she is broke.
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One of my coworkers doesn't like to make the half-mile trek from our designated parking lot to our building, so most mornings she parks on the street right outside so that she doesn't have to be bothered "by the cold". So she spend $7-10/day for parking each day while still paying the $37/month for her parking pass that she uses maybe twice a month when she actually parks in the regular lot. She also goes out to lunch every single day, but then of course complains that she is broke.
Great opportunity to offer to drop her off at for just $4/day
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One of my coworkers doesn't like to make the half-mile trek from our designated parking lot to our building, so most mornings she parks on the street right outside so that she doesn't have to be bothered "by the cold". So she spend $7-10/day for parking each day while still paying the $37/month for her parking pass that she uses maybe twice a month when she actually parks in the regular lot. She also goes out to lunch every single day, but then of course complains that she is broke.
Great opportunity to offer to drop her off at for just $4/day
Really expands on the whole notion of a side hustle!
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One of my coworkers doesn't like to make the half-mile trek from our designated parking lot to our building, so most mornings she parks on the street right outside so that she doesn't have to be bothered "by the cold". So she spend $7-10/day for parking each day while still paying the $37/month for her parking pass that she uses maybe twice a month when she actually parks in the regular lot. She also goes out to lunch every single day, but then of course complains that she is broke.
Great opportunity to offer to drop her off at for just $4/day
Genius
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Co-worker who is usually okay with these kinds of things was talking about his cell phone bill this morning. He has lines for three phones, three tablets, and two Apple watches. It's just him and his son on the bill. I believe that his son probably helps pay part of the bill, but still. They both just got new phones and had already used most of their data for the month on what they assume is firmware updates on said new phones. Ouch. I don't even want to think about what that bill runs every month.
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How do two people have three phones and three tablets?
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I assume the third belonged to his wife that passed away ~ 2 years ago, but I didn't ask.
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Co-worker who is usually okay with these kinds of things was talking about his cell phone bill this morning. He has lines for three phones, three tablets, and two Apple watches. It's just him and his son on the bill. I believe that his son probably helps pay part of the bill, but still. They both just got new phones and had already used most of their data for the month on what they assume is firmware updates on said new phones. Ouch. I don't even want to think about what that bill runs every month.
That was news to me a few months ago when I heard a coworker talking about a cell plan for a tablet. I figured you just used WiFi like a normal computer, but I guess that's too much trouble?
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Co-worker who is usually okay with these kinds of things was talking about his cell phone bill this morning. He has lines for three phones, three tablets, and two Apple watches. It's just him and his son on the bill. I believe that his son probably helps pay part of the bill, but still. They both just got new phones and had already used most of their data for the month on what they assume is firmware updates on said new phones. Ouch. I don't even want to think about what that bill runs every month.
That was news to me a few months ago when I heard a coworker talking about a cell plan for a tablet. I figured you just used WiFi like a normal computer, but I guess that's too much trouble?
I always thought it was the dumbest thing. When you're at home or work or school you can just use wifi. If you really need to use it somewhere with no wifi you can tether to your phone. Why do people think it makes sense to pay for a data plan for a tablet???
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Co-worker who is usually okay with these kinds of things was talking about his cell phone bill this morning. He has lines for three phones, three tablets, and two Apple watches. It's just him and his son on the bill. I believe that his son probably helps pay part of the bill, but still. They both just got new phones and had already used most of their data for the month on what they assume is firmware updates on said new phones. Ouch. I don't even want to think about what that bill runs every month.
That was news to me a few months ago when I heard a coworker talking about a cell plan for a tablet. I figured you just used WiFi like a normal computer, but I guess that's too much trouble?
I always thought it was the dumbest thing. When you're at home or work or school you can just use wifi. If you really need to use it somewhere with no wifi you can tether to your phone. Why do people think it makes sense to pay for a data plan for a tablet???
Most carriers do not allow tethering unless (surprise, surprise) you pay extra, even though you're only using data you've already paid for.
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Co-worker who is usually okay with these kinds of things was talking about his cell phone bill this morning. He has lines for three phones, three tablets, and two Apple watches. It's just him and his son on the bill. I believe that his son probably helps pay part of the bill, but still. They both just got new phones and had already used most of their data for the month on what they assume is firmware updates on said new phones. Ouch. I don't even want to think about what that bill runs every month.
That was news to me a few months ago when I heard a coworker talking about a cell plan for a tablet. I figured you just used WiFi like a normal computer, but I guess that's too much trouble?
Usually providers 'give away' tablets if you sign up for a cell plan for them. I suspect people who don't do math are the only customers, but this is probably why.
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Co-worker who is usually okay with these kinds of things was talking about his cell phone bill this morning. He has lines for three phones, three tablets, and two Apple watches. It's just him and his son on the bill. I believe that his son probably helps pay part of the bill, but still. They both just got new phones and had already used most of their data for the month on what they assume is firmware updates on said new phones. Ouch. I don't even want to think about what that bill runs every month.
That was news to me a few months ago when I heard a coworker talking about a cell plan for a tablet. I figured you just used WiFi like a normal computer, but I guess that's too much trouble?
I always thought it was the dumbest thing. When you're at home or work or school you can just use wifi. If you really need to use it somewhere with no wifi you can tether to your phone. Why do people think it makes sense to pay for a data plan for a tablet???
Most carriers do not allow tethering unless (surprise, surprise) you pay extra, even though you're only using data you've already paid for.
When I selected my plan I had the option of including tethering or not. The additional cost to allow tethering was surprisingly inexpensive.
That said, work pays for my bill so I don’t really give a damn either way. Tethering is immensely valuable when I travel. For some reason I can get around the Great Firewall by tethering through my phone when I get stuck behind it connecting the laptop directly to WiFi. It is so easy to do now and the speed is pretty much indistinguishable from WiFi, so I’m happy.
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My colleague has adult children, one of them living paycheck to paycheck and the other one is a very good saver. His daughter has appently quit her job in Amsterdam and moved back in with her parents in Norway. Her parents live in an apartment with 1 spare room, and 2 bathrooms. I asked if his daughter was now between 2 jobs. But appartenelty she had only quit her job, focussed on getting some other job that she didn't get. She wasn't in a hurry to find another job. She needed some rest after a hectic previous job, which is understandable. My co-workers wife is looking foreward to the daughter moving out again, so she will get the spare room back for her own hobbies and get the house back to themselves.
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Co-worker who is usually okay with these kinds of things was talking about his cell phone bill this morning. He has lines for three phones, three tablets, and two Apple watches. It's just him and his son on the bill. I believe that his son probably helps pay part of the bill, but still. They both just got new phones and had already used most of their data for the month on what they assume is firmware updates on said new phones. Ouch. I don't even want to think about what that bill runs every month.
That was news to me a few months ago when I heard a coworker talking about a cell plan for a tablet. I figured you just used WiFi like a normal computer, but I guess that's too much trouble?
I always thought it was the dumbest thing. When you're at home or work or school you can just use wifi. If you really need to use it somewhere with no wifi you can tether to your phone. Why do people think it makes sense to pay for a data plan for a tablet???
It doesn’t. I have Google Fi phone service so I ordered a data-only SIM card for my tablet, but it was free to get the card and all data goes through my phone data plan at the same rate. It’s come in handy a few times over the past two years, but I wouldn’t have bothered if I’d had to buy a separate plan. No need.
Note, tethering is also free with Google Fi, and I’ve done this through my phone to download/upload work during power/internet outages. It’s stupid that other carriers charge for that service!
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One of my co-workers:
"Yeah, with our oldest entering pre-K, we are excited to be coming to the end of a period when we're spending massive amounts of money on childcare...and we are starting to notice some really nice houses for sale..."
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One of my co-workers:
"Yeah, with our oldest entering pre-K, we are excited to be coming to the end of a period when we're spending massive amounts of money on childcare...and we are starting to notice some really nice houses for sale..."
All the parents in the room: "Aww....that's so cute that you think you're about to have a bunch of extra cash....."
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One of my co-workers:
"Yeah, with our oldest entering pre-K, we are excited to be coming to the end of a period when we're spending massive amounts of money on childcare...and we are starting to notice some really nice houses for sale..."
+1. Heard/seen this too often.
Meanwhile, with our youngest out of daycare/pre-K and starting public school this fall, BoM&D are planning on what to do with the excess cash. Vanguard SP500 ETF or VTSAX - what a dilemma.
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One of my co-workers:
"Yeah, with our oldest entering pre-K, we are excited to be coming to the end of a period when we're spending massive amounts of money on childcare...and we are starting to notice some really nice houses for sale..."
All the parents in the room: "Aww....that's so cute that you think you're about to have a bunch of extra cash....."
that's the ones who bought a man-cave or she-shed or big truck/SUV for that so-called pre-midlife crisis.
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One of my co-workers:
"Yeah, with our oldest entering pre-K, we are excited to be coming to the end of a period when we're spending massive amounts of money on childcare...and we are starting to notice some really nice houses for sale..."
All the parents in the room: "Aww....that's so cute that you think you're about to have a bunch of extra cash....."
that's the ones who bought a man-cave or she-shed or big truck/SUV for that so-called pre-midlife crisis.
Nah...we still have to have someone to watch him before and after school and during the summer. That costs just over half what day care did every month. Plus school supplies. And our daycare fees included breakfast and lunch for him, so now we have extra food costs for that. And class trips and shirts and yearbooks and pictures. Plus every other week there is some kind of fundraiser or another where they bring the kids into the gym and get them all hyped up about winning cool shit for selling enough popcorn/cookie dough/wrapping paper/etc. or soliciting enough donations from friends and family who are getting hit up by multiple kids for the same stuff. We generally choose to opt out of fundraisers, but it's still a near constant stream of fundraisers. I'd much rather pay higher property taxes than to have to deal with that.
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One of my co-workers:
"Yeah, with our oldest entering pre-K, we are excited to be coming to the end of a period when we're spending massive amounts of money on childcare...and we are starting to notice some really nice houses for sale..."
All the parents in the room: "Aww....that's so cute that you think you're about to have a bunch of extra cash....."
that's the ones who bought a man-cave or she-shed or big truck/SUV for that so-called pre-midlife crisis.
OMFG how do people find the time to have a pre-midlife crisis? Or a midlife crisis??
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One of my co-workers:
"Yeah, with our oldest entering pre-K, we are excited to be coming to the end of a period when we're spending massive amounts of money on childcare...and we are starting to notice some really nice houses for sale..."
All the parents in the room: "Aww....that's so cute that you think you're about to have a bunch of extra cash....."
that's the ones who bought a man-cave or she-shed or big truck/SUV for that so-called pre-midlife crisis.
OMFG how do people find the time to have a pre-midlife crisis? Or a midlife crisis??
A crisis is manufactured. As a justification to transform a want into a need.
It's all up there, in them noggins. The effect is on the wallet.
My midlife crisis that I'm making soon is to find adult swim classes to improve myself. Get the right stroke coaching (stop thinking dirty... LOL)
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Most carriers do not allow tethering unless (surprise, surprise) you pay extra, even though you're only using data you've already paid for.
Whot? That's the first I've ever heard of such a ridiculous policy? I'm yet to come across a network blocking me from tethering.
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One of my co-workers:
"Yeah, with our oldest entering pre-K, we are excited to be coming to the end of a period when we're spending massive amounts of money on childcare...and we are starting to notice some really nice houses for sale..."
All the parents in the room: "Aww....that's so cute that you think you're about to have a bunch of extra cash....."
that's the ones who bought a man-cave or she-shed or big truck/SUV for that so-called pre-midlife crisis.
OMFG how do people find the time to have a pre-midlife crisis? Or a midlife crisis??
Also my question.
But based on many conversations with people I know or have recently met over the last few months...it happens.
Lots of people 48-55 suddenly divorcing (with or without a girlfriend on the side).
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One of my co-workers:
"Yeah, with our oldest entering pre-K, we are excited to be coming to the end of a period when we're spending massive amounts of money on childcare...and we are starting to notice some really nice houses for sale..."
All the parents in the room: "Aww....that's so cute that you think you're about to have a bunch of extra cash....."
that's the ones who bought a man-cave or she-shed or big truck/SUV for that so-called pre-midlife crisis.
OMFG how do people find the time to have a pre-midlife crisis? Or a midlife crisis??
Also my question.
But based on many conversations with people I know or have recently met over the last few months...it happens.
Lots of people 48-55 suddenly divorcing (with or without a girlfriend on the side).
I know people in their late 30s/early 40s with manufactured crises. Most of the time it's an easy fix if they wrote down their priorities and made budgets. I should be charging for this, but now I just step away and let them smolder/burn, I've been burned/singed in the past, I'm not Deadpool loving punishment.
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Lots of people 48-55 suddenly divorcing (with or without a girlfriend on the side).
I'm not sure that is a manufactured crisis. If you spend 20 years with someone you might grow apart. Also, you might both be better having been together and then apart.
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So they're back to buy yet another new TV, all because the wife doesn't want to listen to ads. Or pay for the ad-free version of Pandora. Or for a ~$15 HDMI splitter. Or to just stop using the Chromecast and only use the AppleTV in the one port that exists.
Update on the TV enthusiast from last month:
Brief recap, the most recent TV he bought was just for the sole purpose of getting a TV with better HDMI inputs in their workout room. Well, now he tells me that they needed a new exercise machine for said workout room. (Old machine wasn't broken or anything, but, naturally, needed a new one.)
They got a Peloton.
You know. The exercise machines with a built-in TV.
Website it telling me this model costs $4K, but hey! They offer 0% financing. And you can't put a price on making the TV you just bought 6 months ago obsolete.
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So they're back to buy yet another new TV, all because the wife doesn't want to listen to ads. Or pay for the ad-free version of Pandora. Or for a ~$15 HDMI splitter. Or to just stop using the Chromecast and only use the AppleTV in the one port that exists.
Update on the TV enthusiast from last month:
Brief recap, the most recent TV he bought was just for the sole purpose of getting a TV with better HDMI inputs in their workout room. Well, now he tells me that they needed a new exercise machine for said workout room. (Old machine wasn't broken or anything, but, naturally, needed a new one.)
They got a Peloton.
You know. The exercise machines with a built-in TV.
Website it telling me this model costs $4K, but hey! They offer 0% financing. And you can't put a price on making the TV you just bought 6 months ago obsolete.
NOOoooooo. Wow, this hurts to read.
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Most carriers do not allow tethering unless (surprise, surprise) you pay extra, even though you're only using data you've already paid for.
Whot? That's the first I've ever heard of such a ridiculous policy? I'm yet to come across a network blocking me from tethering.
They can't really block tethering if your phone is capable of acting as a hotspot, but it's against the terms of the contract and they can cut your service.
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Co-worker who is usually okay with these kinds of things was talking about his cell phone bill this morning. He has lines for three phones, three tablets, and two Apple watches. It's just him and his son on the bill. I believe that his son probably helps pay part of the bill, but still. They both just got new phones and had already used most of their data for the month on what they assume is firmware updates on said new phones. Ouch. I don't even want to think about what that bill runs every month.
That was news to me a few months ago when I heard a coworker talking about a cell plan for a tablet. I figured you just used WiFi like a normal computer, but I guess that's too much trouble?
Usually providers 'give away' tablets if you sign up for a cell plan for them. I suspect people who don't do math are the only customers, but this is probably why.
Exactly why I have a tablet. My husband got sucked in because you paid for the tablet and got the equivalent amount on a Costco gift card. This was before we fully shared finances so I'm not sure what it cost him to ha e but he never used it.
When work took over his phone about 6mths later, he asked if I wanted to put it on my plan... it was only $5 a month so I've used it eversince. Use it most days for reading ebooks or forums. The data is nice for traveling and at work when I finish a book and want to download the next... if it was more than that, though, it would be on the chopping block! $5 can go to my monthly hobby budget.
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So they're back to buy yet another new TV, all because the wife doesn't want to listen to ads. Or pay for the ad-free version of Pandora. Or for a ~$15 HDMI splitter. Or to just stop using the Chromecast and only use the AppleTV in the one port that exists.
Update on the TV enthusiast from last month:
Brief recap, the most recent TV he bought was just for the sole purpose of getting a TV with better HDMI inputs in their workout room. Well, now he tells me that they needed a new exercise machine for said workout room. (Old machine wasn't broken or anything, but, naturally, needed a new one.)
They got a Peloton.
You know. The exercise machines with a built-in TV.
Website it telling me this model costs $4K, but hey! They offer 0% financing. And you can't put a price on making the TV you just bought 6 months ago obsolete.
NOOoooooo. Wow, this hurts to read.
Hol up. Can the peloton play pandora?
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Most carriers do not allow tethering unless (surprise, surprise) you pay extra, even though you're only using data you've already paid for.
Whot? That's the first I've ever heard of such a ridiculous policy? I'm yet to come across a network blocking me from tethering.
They can't really block tethering if your phone is capable of acting as a hotspot, but it's against the terms of the contract and they can cut your service.
Wow I had no idea about this. Does anyone know if it comes standard with T-Mobile plans? I've been with them forever and never even considered that tethering might not be allowed.
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Most carriers do not allow tethering unless (surprise, surprise) you pay extra, even though you're only using data you've already paid for.
Whot? That's the first I've ever heard of such a ridiculous policy? I'm yet to come across a network blocking me from tethering.
They can't really block tethering if your phone is capable of acting as a hotspot, but it's against the terms of the contract and they can cut your service.
Wow I had no idea about this. Does anyone know if it comes standard with T-Mobile plans? I've been with them forever and never even considered that tethering might not be allowed.
Yes T-Mobile generally allows tethering. I actually think they were one of the first carriers to allow it without extra fees, as I remember att and Verizon charging. For all I know they all allow it now due to competitive pressure. I used to jailbreak my phone to allow tethering (because the iPhone obeyed the carrier instructions to disable tethering but as mentioned above there’s no fundamental mechanism to stop it... although back then I was paranoid they would see a desktop browser Agent id and suspend my account so I was extra careful)
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Lots of people 48-55 suddenly divorcing (with or without a girlfriend on the side).
I'm not sure that is a manufactured crisis. If you spend 20 years with someone you might grow apart. Also, you might both be better having been together and then apart.
Or the kids are through college / out of the house. I know someone who was in a bad marriage for decades. Finally filed for divorce when the youngest kid was 26.
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Most carriers do not allow tethering unless (surprise, surprise) you pay extra, even though you're only using data you've already paid for.
Whot? That's the first I've ever heard of such a ridiculous policy? I'm yet to come across a network blocking me from tethering.
They can't really block tethering if your phone is capable of acting as a hotspot, but it's against the terms of the contract and they can cut your service.
I've checked my past contracts, still not found anything.
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So they're back to buy yet another new TV, all because the wife doesn't want to listen to ads. Or pay for the ad-free version of Pandora. Or for a ~$15 HDMI splitter. Or to just stop using the Chromecast and only use the AppleTV in the one port that exists.
Update on the TV enthusiast from last month:
Brief recap, the most recent TV he bought was just for the sole purpose of getting a TV with better HDMI inputs in their workout room. Well, now he tells me that they needed a new exercise machine for said workout room. (Old machine wasn't broken or anything, but, naturally, needed a new one.)
They got a Peloton.
You know. The exercise machines with a built-in TV.
Website it telling me this model costs $4K, but hey! They offer 0% financing. And you can't put a price on making the TV you just bought 6 months ago obsolete.
Who's going to buy Peloton shares?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/hayleykim/2019/06/05/peloton-confidentially-files-for-ipo/#495e7b902dfc
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Who's going to buy Peloton shares?
Grrrrrrrrrrr. I wish all these Peloton folks would buy a real bike (50 times sexier and MUCH cheaper) and ride outside like real cyclists. Then cyclists would be more and more visible and we would have strength in numbers. Riding with a guy on a screen, on fake bike, is nowhere near as exhilarating as riding with a group.
Sorry for the off topic rant.
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Who's going to buy Peloton shares?
Grrrrrrrrrrr. I wish all these Peloton folks would buy a real bike (50 times sexier and MUCH cheaper) and ride outside like real cyclists. Then cyclists would be more and more visible and we would have strength in numbers. Riding with a guy on a screen, on fake bike, is nowhere near as exhilarating as riding with a group.
Sorry for the off topic rant.
Continuing the OT:
But cagers.... they don't like us in our nicey tighty spandex. But why they like LuLaRoe?
If you have to ride indoors due to bad weather, a bike trainer suffices. I don't like the stationary bikes not swaying left and right when I'm dancin' on them pedals for hill climb or sprints.
Peloton is Fake Cycling! SAD !!!
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Who's going to buy Peloton shares?
Grrrrrrrrrrr. I wish all these Peloton folks would buy a real bike (50 times sexier and MUCH cheaper) and ride outside like real cyclists. Then cyclists would be more and more visible and we would have strength in numbers. Riding with a guy on a screen, on fake bike, is nowhere near as exhilarating as riding with a group.
Sorry for the off topic rant.
Continuing the OT:
But cagers.... they don't like us in our nicey tighty spandex. But why they like LuLaRoe?
If you have to ride indoors due to bad weather, a bike trainer suffices. I don't like the stationary bikes not swaying left and right when I'm dancin' on them pedals for hill climb or sprints.
Peloton is Fake Cycling! SAD !!!
I was with you until the Trump reference and now I am not sure if the entire post was tongue in cheek.
...but for real, the bike is fake. It's not a bike.
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Co-worker who is usually okay with these kinds of things was talking about his cell phone bill this morning. He has lines for three phones, three tablets, and two Apple watches. It's just him and his son on the bill. I believe that his son probably helps pay part of the bill, but still. They both just got new phones and had already used most of their data for the month on what they assume is firmware updates on said new phones. Ouch. I don't even want to think about what that bill runs every month.
A phone line for your watch?
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Co-worker who is usually okay with these kinds of things was talking about his cell phone bill this morning. He has lines for three phones, three tablets, and two Apple watches. It's just him and his son on the bill. I believe that his son probably helps pay part of the bill, but still. They both just got new phones and had already used most of their data for the month on what they assume is firmware updates on said new phones. Ouch. I don't even want to think about what that bill runs every month.
A phone line for your watch?
That must be a smartwatch, that makes a sounds every time you get an email. You can also read the email on your watch, so that you can answer work emails while you are on vacation, like one of our customers does.
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Grrrrrrrrrrr. I wish all these Peloton folks would buy a real bike (50 times sexier and MUCH cheaper) and ride outside like real cyclists. Then cyclists would be more and more visible and we would have strength in numbers. Riding with a guy on a screen, on fake bike, is nowhere near as exhilarating as riding with a group.
Sorry for the off topic rant.
The only person I know IRL who has a Peloton is a former co-worker who was/(is?) the state champ for his age group (old). He finally bought the Peloton after retiring because his wife was tired of him getting hit/crashing. It isn't so much that he was hit or crashed more than "average", but he spends SO much time on his bike, it's bound to happen. He was FI LONG before he retired and continued working until it wasn't fun anymore. He has millions in the bank and lives well below his means. he still rides a "real" bike at least once a week with his friends on the weekends, but his wife is MUCH happier with him on the Peloton. So, him owning a Peloton? Totally not facepunch worthy. He has several "real" bikes too, and rides them. The co-worker that the other poster mentioned who bought it following his TV saga? Totally absurd.
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That must be a smartwatch, that makes a sounds every time you get an email. You can also read the email on your watch, so that you can answer work emails while you are on vacation, like one of our customers does.
Sounds suspiciously similar to the functionality of a laptop or phone.
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That must be a smartwatch, that makes a sounds every time you get an email. You can also read the email on your watch, so that you can answer work emails while you are on vacation, like one of our customers does.
Sounds suspiciously similar to the functionality of a laptop or phone.
It is. Just another option to spend a good amount of money on yet another device.
Extra feature is often that it also can show your heart rate.
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I eat out waaaay less now that I can afford to live on my own. If my roommate was in the shower I could go to the gym, but if my roommate was in the kitchen I had to go eat out.
@kelvin ,
"Had to"?????
"Had to"????
Couldn't wait a bit? Couldn't work around them? Couldn't work out a schedule that worked for both of you?
Would have literally starved to death if you didn't rush to the restaurant right then and there?
Between school/work, I was pulling 18 hr days at the time. I did pass out in public a few times, due to lack of food. There were some pretty nasty health effects.
There was a lot of ramen noodles and oatmeal, so I could limit the eating out. Still spent waaaaay more on food than I do now.
The point was that food budgeting is much easier when you have regular access to a proper kitchen. Something most middle-class folk take for granted.
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And you can't put a price on making the TV you just bought 6 months ago obsolete.
Snort<3
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That must be a smartwatch, that makes a sounds every time you get an email. You can also read the email on your watch, so that you can answer work emails while you are on vacation, like one of our customers does.
Sounds suspiciously similar to the functionality of a laptop or phone.
But it's so inconvenient to wear a laptop on your wrist.
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Co-worker who is usually okay with these kinds of things was talking about his cell phone bill this morning. He has lines for three phones, three tablets, and two Apple watches. It's just him and his son on the bill. I believe that his son probably helps pay part of the bill, but still. They both just got new phones and had already used most of their data for the month on what they assume is firmware updates on said new phones. Ouch. I don't even want to think about what that bill runs every month.
A phone line for your watch?
That must be a smartwatch, that makes a sounds every time you get an email. You can also read the email on your watch, so that you can answer work emails while you are on vacation, like one of our customers does.
Phone line for the watch is a bit silly, since it can just go via your phone's internet connection.
From my employers perspective: the watch (which they paid for) is great for notifying you when you have a meeting. Which can save time and thus money across the company, since at least I am more punctual for meetings. But I don't use it for anything else. $300 to save hours of other people's time is probably a good expense (average 3 minutes wasted by people being late for meetings, x 3 meetings per week, x 45 weeks x people's income = a lot of money).
They're also quite good for letting you know what time it is. Like a watch.
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Lots of people 48-55 suddenly divorcing (with or without a girlfriend on the side).
I'm not sure that is a manufactured crisis. If you spend 20 years with someone you might grow apart. Also, you might both be better having been together and then apart.
Or the kids are through college / out of the house. I know someone who was in a bad marriage for decades. Finally filed for divorce when the youngest kid was 26.
Yeah, I wouldn't call divorcing a manufactured crisis either. At least, not in most cases.
I get that people change and they drift apart. I see that all the time. Often, it's a mutual drifting and an agreeable divorce. It doesn't have to be anyone's "fault" really.
The weird thing that I've seen more of recently, is just one person deciding they are "done", and the other spouse saying "what"?? "Midlife crisis" comes to mind in those cases, as one spouse still wants the marriage to work, still loves the other spouse, and didn't realize there was a problem. The other spouse (typically male in my non statistically significant experience, maybe 70% of the time) had been going along at "less than happy", stewing about it, and then just decided they were done (about half the time with a honey on the side). Often kids out of the house, but that seems to be age-related (people that age often have kids out of the house by then).
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From my employers perspective: the watch (which they paid for) is great for notifying you when you have a meeting. Which can save time and thus money across the company, since at least I am more punctual for meetings. But I don't use it for anything else. $300 to save hours of other people's time is probably a good expense (average 3 minutes wasted by people being late for meetings, x 3 meetings per week, x 45 weeks x people's income = a lot of money).
They're also quite good for letting you know what time it is. Like a watch.
Yeah my problem with smart watches is most use cases don’t really apply to me, being retired. It’s great to quickly check which of the 60 emails you receive hourly is important, upcoming meetings, etc. of course at this point in my life I’m trying to check email less often.
The ability to get silent notifications is much more effective on your wrist than in your pocket or purse. It might be more popular with women for this reason. My wife either has to have a loud phone alert or has to occasionally check he messages. She misses a lot of calls
I can understand the heart rate monitor if you are doing interval training.
The coolest feature IMO is using the watch as a remote shutter/viewer for the phone. Not worth a few hundred bucks though.
Most intriguing feature I noticed was that it will show you driving instructions, which doesn’t seem better to me personally but I guess some people prefer it.
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Not antimustachian, but it happened at work today and it was funny!
I work for a large financial services company that allows you to nickname your personal accounts online, and I have nicknames for each acct.
I had a large check I needed to deposit today, and I was pleased to discover there was an employee services branch right on campus. I made an appointment with the employee advisor and went to deposit my check earlier today. The advisor asked me which account to deposit it to, and I said, the account with $XXX amount in it. He looks at me with a smirk on his face, and asks, the one called “Hubby's name and your name FU fund?” I burst out laughing and told him - I didn’t know you could see my nicknames! He laughed and said, we’ll just assume that FU means follow up. :)
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Hunny156:
I was always confused about our business developer (salesperson)who would issue updates that included xxx plant FU (FollowUp).
I ALWAYS read it as FU, which is exactly NOT the intent of the sales person.
This is a upcoming FU money thread story! I can feel it...... :-)
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I eat out waaaay less now that I can afford to live on my own. If my roommate was in the shower I could go to the gym, but if my roommate was in the kitchen I had to go eat out.
@kelvin ,
"Had to"?????
"Had to"????
Couldn't wait a bit? Couldn't work around them? Couldn't work out a schedule that worked for both of you?
Would have literally starved to death if you didn't rush to the restaurant right then and there?
Between school/work, I was pulling 18 hr days at the time. I did pass out in public a few times, due to lack of food. There were some pretty nasty health effects.
There was a lot of ramen noodles and oatmeal, so I could limit the eating out. Still spent waaaaay more on food than I do now.
The point was that food budgeting is much easier when you have regular access to a proper kitchen. Something most middle-class folk take for granted.
You should preferably carry some bars or nuts with you (and have in your desk at work), to eat when you are hungry and can't make a proper meal yet.
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From my employers perspective: the watch (which they paid for) is great for notifying you when you have a meeting. Which can save time and thus money across the company, since at least I am more punctual for meetings. But I don't use it for anything else. $300 to save hours of other people's time is probably a good expense (average 3 minutes wasted by people being late for meetings, x 3 meetings per week, x 45 weeks x people's income = a lot of money).
They're also quite good for letting you know what time it is. Like a watch.
Yeah my problem with smart watches is most use cases don’t really apply to me, being retired. It’s great to quickly check which of the 60 emails you receive hourly is important, upcoming meetings, etc. of course at this point in my life I’m trying to check email less often.
The ability to get silent notifications is much more effective on your wrist than in your pocket or purse. It might be more popular with women for this reason. My wife either has to have a loud phone alert or has to occasionally check he messages. She misses a lot of calls
I can understand the heart rate monitor if you are doing interval training.
The coolest feature IMO is using the watch as a remote shutter/viewer for the phone. Not worth a few hundred bucks though.
Most intriguing feature I noticed was that it will show you driving instructions, which doesn’t seem better to me personally but I guess some people prefer it.
My new $30 smartwatch does call/text notification, counts steps, heartrate, sleep cycle - and some other stuff I don't recall.
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One of my co-workers:
"Yeah, with our oldest entering pre-K, we are excited to be coming to the end of a period when we're spending massive amounts of money on childcare...and we are starting to notice some really nice houses for sale..."
All the parents in the room: "Aww....that's so cute that you think you're about to have a bunch of extra cash....."
Yeah... aftercare, field trips, fundraisers all the time, club fees, etc. Now that it's summer, full-day camp.
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From my employers perspective: the watch (which they paid for) is great for notifying you when you have a meeting. Which can save time and thus money across the company, since at least I am more punctual for meetings. But I don't use it for anything else. $300 to save hours of other people's time is probably a good expense (average 3 minutes wasted by people being late for meetings, x 3 meetings per week, x 45 weeks x people's income = a lot of money).
They're also quite good for letting you know what time it is. Like a watch.
Yeah my problem with smart watches is most use cases don’t really apply to me, being retired. It’s great to quickly check which of the 60 emails you receive hourly is important, upcoming meetings, etc. of course at this point in my life I’m trying to check email less often.
The ability to get silent notifications is much more effective on your wrist than in your pocket or purse. It might be more popular with women for this reason. My wife either has to have a loud phone alert or has to occasionally check he messages. She misses a lot of calls
I can understand the heart rate monitor if you are doing interval training.
The coolest feature IMO is using the watch as a remote shutter/viewer for the phone. Not worth a few hundred bucks though.
Most intriguing feature I noticed was that it will show you driving instructions, which doesn’t seem better to me personally but I guess some people prefer it.
My new $30 smartwatch does call/text notification, counts steps, heartrate, sleep cycle - and some other stuff I don't recall.
My DH bought a second hand advanced watch with heart rate monitor. He has problems with his heart rate and it is nice to be able to keep and eye on it without using his normal heart rate monitor with breast belt. He uses it as an alarm clock as well, but he has turned off the synchronization with his phone. This way, the battery lasts longer. So, no email, sms and phone calls on his watch.
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FYI,
i know someone who thought they were having heart attack bc one of those monitors was showing crazy results.
went to hospital in ambulance, no probs w heart at all
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FYI,
i know someone who thought they were having heart attack bc one of those monitors was showing crazy results.
went to hospital in ambulance, no probs w heart at all
Reminds of that study where yearly medical checkups (prior to the usual age where checkups are actually beneficial, i.e. before 50) were found to be... great for the doctors, who got extra business doing extra unnecessary work and not so great for the patients who ended up having more unnecessary operations/medication/etc.
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“Doctors are men who prescribe medicines of which they know little, to cure diseases of which they know less, in human beings of whom they know nothing” voltaire
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“Doctors are men who prescribe medicines of which they know little, to cure diseases of which they know less, in human beings of whom they know nothing” voltaire
I think medicine has come a long ways since Voltaire.
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“Doctors are men who prescribe medicines of which they know little, to cure diseases of which they know less, in human beings of whom they know nothing” voltaire
I think medicine has come a long ways since Voltaire.
I'll have pancakes in the Age of Enlightenment
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“Doctors are men who prescribe medicines of which they know little, to cure diseases of which they know less, in human beings of whom they know nothing” voltaire
I think medicine has come a long ways since Voltaire.
I'll have pancakes in the Age of Enlightenment
Always double down on eleven
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“Doctors are men who prescribe medicines of which they know little, to cure diseases of which they know less, in human beings of whom they know nothing” voltaire
I think medicine has come a long ways since Voltaire.
I'll have pancakes in the Age of Enlightenment
Always double down on eleven
Money
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Hello, a longtime lurker here. I had to create an account just to post this. (It isn't exactly from work - but I think it fits the category)
DW and I were walking around the neighborhood last night. A house down the street has a shiny new Jeep SUV parked in front of it. Two ladies walk out of the house:
Lady #1 - "Is that your new Jeep?"
Lady #2 - "Yes, and I got it on a lease, so soon I won't have a car payment."
I was already chuckling internally at the thought of people buying a new Jeep SUV, but then they had to throw the comment about it being a 'leased new Jeep SUV'. Never mind the logic where a lease payment apparently doesn't count as a car payment? I was struggling so hard to hold in comment until we had walked past that I was surprised when my wife actually bursting out laughing.
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Hello, a longtime lurker here. I had to create an account just to post this. (It isn't exactly from work - but I think it fits the category)
DW and I were walking around the neighborhood last night. A house down the street has a shiny new Jeep SUV parked in front of it. Two ladies walk out of the house:
Lady #1 - "Is that your new Jeep?"
Lady #2 - "Yes, and I got it on a lease, so soon I won't have a car payment."
I was already chuckling internally at the thought of people buying a new Jeep SUV, but then they had to throw the comment about it being a 'leased new Jeep SUV'. Never mind the logic where a lease payment apparently doesn't count as a car payment? I was struggling so hard to hold in comment until we had walked past that I was surprised when my wife actually bursting out laughing.
Welcome to the forum. Nice story. People are idiots.
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Lady #2 - "Yes, and I got it on a lease, so soon I won't have a car payment."
I have no idea what this even means? Like, in the 3 years when her lease is up, she won't have a car payment? Or maybe she just views leasing a car as renting and so she will just have a "car rental payment" and not a "car payment" :)
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Lady #2 - "Yes, and I got it on a lease, so soon I won't have a car payment."
I have no idea what this even means? Like, in the 3 years when her lease is up, she won't have a car payment? Or maybe she just views leasing a car as renting and so she will just have a "car rental payment" and not a "car payment" :)
I think she probably meant she didn’t have a car loan
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Lady #2 - "Yes, and I got it on a lease, so soon I won't have a car payment."
I have no idea what this even means? Like, in the 3 years when her lease is up, she won't have a car payment? Or maybe she just views leasing a car as renting and so she will just have a "car rental payment" and not a "car payment" :)
She probably had a car loan for her previous car. But is now selling it and paying off the loan. And gets a lease contract instead.
I think she probably meant she didnt have a car loan
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Wow, the only worse thing they could do than taking out a loan for a car is private lease - they will pay almost the same monthly amount and won't even have an asset at the end of the road.
Company leased cars can be something that makes sense from a financial perspective, at least in my country those are usually heavily sponsored by the employer, while refusing a leased car when your position would allow you to get one usually doesn't lead to a higher salary to compensate.
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Hello, a longtime lurker here. I had to create an account just to post this. (It isn't exactly from work - but I think it fits the category)
DW and I were walking around the neighborhood last night. A house down the street has a shiny new Jeep SUV parked in front of it. Two ladies walk out of the house:
Lady #1 - "Is that your new Jeep?"
Lady #2 - "Yes, and I got it on a lease, so soon I won't have a car payment."
I was already chuckling internally at the thought of people buying a new Jeep SUV, but then they had to throw the comment about it being a 'leased new Jeep SUV'. Never mind the logic where a lease payment apparently doesn't count as a car payment? I was struggling so hard to hold in comment until we had walked past that I was surprised when my wife actually bursting out laughing.
Welcome to the forum. Nice story. People are idiots.
Well yes, in three years you won't have a car payment, because you won't have a car.
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Still money floating out of the monthly budget!
Oh silly me, a budget? People like that don't have budgets do they? /s
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Still money floating out of the monthly budget!
Oh silly me, a budget? People like that don't have budgets do they? /s
(https://i.imgur.com/voyr00I.jpg)
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Well, in fairness we don’t have a budget. We scoop off as much off the top as we want into our investment accounts first and then spend whatever ends up hitting the checking account after. If we have extra left over then that periodically gets moved over to investments also.
But we have the luxury of plenty of wiggle room between incoming and outgoing. If that weren’t the case then we would be tracking spending more closely.
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Well, in fairness we don’t have a budget. We scoop off as much off the top as we want into our investment accounts first and then spend whatever ends up hitting the checking account after. If we have extra left over then that periodically gets moved over to investments also.
But we have the luxury of plenty of wiggle room between incoming and outgoing. If that weren’t the case then we would be tracking spending more closely.
@ysette9, Well said! Much less bother to do it this way.
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Well, in fairness we don’t have a budget. We scoop off as much off the top as we want into our investment accounts first and then spend whatever ends up hitting the checking account after. If we have extra left over then that periodically gets moved over to investments also.
But we have the luxury of plenty of wiggle room between incoming and outgoing. If that weren’t the case then we would be tracking spending more closely.
We do something similar. Lots left over to save/invest each month b/c we don't do thinks like buy yachts and rides on rocketships. ;)
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Well, in fairness we don’t have a budget. We scoop off as much off the top as we want into our investment accounts first and then spend whatever ends up hitting the checking account after. If we have extra left over then that periodically gets moved over to investments also.
But we have the luxury of plenty of wiggle room between incoming and outgoing. If that weren’t the case then we would be tracking spending more closely.
I tried budgeting. It didn't work for me at all. A frugal mindset and mindful spending works much better in my case.
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We pay wages once a month and one coworker was really happy they'd get paid this Friday instead of next Monday, because 'this time of the month our account is always completely empty, it's all gone'. They didn't tell it as a joke. Coworker was wearing name brand clothes and just last week told all about their upcoming 3 week holiday. I'm always lost for words whenever well paid intelligent people say those kind of things.
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We pay wages once a month and one coworker was really happy they'd get paid this Friday instead of next Monday, because 'this time of the month our account is always completely empty, it's all gone'. They didn't tell it as a joke. Coworker was wearing name brand clothes and just last week told all about their upcoming 3 week holiday. I'm always lost for words whenever well paid intelligent people say those kind of things.
Maybe that's their "fun money" account, after their savings and investment accounts have already been fully funded?
...Yeah, I know, but a guy can dream, right? ;)
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Well, in fairness we don’t have a budget. We scoop off as much off the top as we want into our investment accounts first and then spend whatever ends up hitting the checking account after. If we have extra left over then that periodically gets moved over to investments also.
But we have the luxury of plenty of wiggle room between incoming and outgoing. If that weren’t the case then we would be tracking spending more closely.
I tried budgeting. It didn't work for me at all. A frugal mindset and mindful spending works much better in my case.
Yeah, I found when you focus on a monthly budget, it prevents you from being opportunistic.I will prepay for things for credit cards, stock up on good deals, or jump at great value items. Everything is based on the decision of: Am i getting the most value for my money.
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We pay wages once a month and one coworker was really happy they'd get paid this Friday instead of next Monday, because 'this time of the month our account is always completely empty, it's all gone'. They didn't tell it as a joke. Coworker was wearing name brand clothes and just last week told all about their upcoming 3 week holiday. I'm always lost for words whenever well paid intelligent people say those kind of things.
Maybe that's their "fun money" account, after their savings and investment accounts have already been fully funded?
...Yeah, I know, but a guy can dream, right? ;)
It could technically mean that yes ;-) I mean my account only has like €80 in it right now - I put everything in savings / investments except for €100 spending money. But somehow I have a gut feeling that 'totally empty' means exactly that...
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Well, in fairness we don’t have a budget. We scoop off as much off the top as we want into our investment accounts first and then spend whatever ends up hitting the checking account after. If we have extra left over then that periodically gets moved over to investments also.
But we have the luxury of plenty of wiggle room between incoming and outgoing. If that weren’t the case then we would be tracking spending more closely.
I tried budgeting. It didn't work for me at all. A frugal mindset and mindful spending works much better in my case.
Yeah, I found when you focus on a monthly budget, it prevents you from being opportunistic.I will prepay for things for credit cards, stock up on good deals, or jump at great value items. Everything is based on the decision of: Am i getting the most value for my money.
That's why we tracking monthly averages instead of adhering to a monthly budget. It gets us the info to keep spending in check, but also let's us take advantage of those opportunities.
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Well, in fairness we don’t have a budget. We scoop off as much off the top as we want into our investment accounts first and then spend whatever ends up hitting the checking account after. If we have extra left over then that periodically gets moved over to investments also.
But we have the luxury of plenty of wiggle room between incoming and outgoing. If that weren’t the case then we would be tracking spending more closely.
I tried budgeting. It didn't work for me at all. A frugal mindset and mindful spending works much better in my case.
Yeah, I found when you focus on a monthly budget, it prevents you from being opportunistic.I will prepay for things for credit cards, stock up on good deals, or jump at great value items. Everything is based on the decision of: Am i getting the most value for my money.
That's why we tracking monthly averages instead of adhering to a monthly budget. It gets us the info to keep spending in check, but also let's us take advantage of those opportunities.
Same. We 'budget' in the vague sense and adjust A LOT based on how things go, but we do find it really helpful to look at a monthly average and be like 'do I feel like I'm getting value for this amount?' because sometimes individual purchases seem justifiable or sensible but the total amount is just... no, we gotta approach this differently.
This especially applies if the people in the relationship are not quite on the same page re: spending and saving. My husband is more along the lines of 'we have the money, this is a good deal, let's', and 3 months of 'this is how much we've spent on house maintenance, is this worth it' can be a really good reality check.
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Co-worker and I were talking about BBQ season and his new grill he bought last year.
Co-worker: "I have the Green egg and just love it"
me: "I heard of them they are quite expensive like a thousand bucks ,but hear that they are great."
Co-worker: "Try over 3 thousand!"
Me: "WTF!"
Co-worker: "I bought it on a payment plan so it was like only $150 a month for two years"
The conversation went on for a while and after I got over the sticker shock of the Green egg, he did convince me it is a great piece of engineering. He went on to tell me about his other cooking tools like his gas grill, and (water cooking) Sous Vide system. He seems to really enjoy cooking so I can't blame him for spending his money on his passion...
I have had my same gas BBQ for 19 years, no way am I planning on buying a $3000 Green egg. The Sous Vide system did sound cool, I could see getting one of those and using it and finishing the on my old grill for prefect cooking.
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I was in a wedding party and felt bummed I had to skip out on the bachelor party, because we had a big deadline that very weekend. I mentioned to a supervisor that I was thinking of just flying out for a day and catching a redeye back, but decided not to.
"You must be richer than me," she said - 60-years-old and making 2x my pay.
Yeah, maybe, I thought, but didn't say anything.
In a separate conversation I mentioned that another couple I know had a costume party for their wedding. They were married in traditional attire, but emerged at the party like Belle and The Prince. My wife and I managed to get free YoGabbaGabba costumes that were so awesome people thought we were professionals hired with the entertainment.
This manager? She said she'd consider not being friends with people who'd have a costume party.
Geez, lady, (A) lighten up, and (B) keep your comments to yourself.
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"so you just use your student loan deposits to show you have a steady income. That's how I qualified to get my car in college"
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"so you just use your student loan deposits to show you have a steady income. That's how I qualified to get my car in college"
Wow! Stack up your debts using a lower interest rate loan to qualify you for the higher interest rate one. Great way to accelerate your debt load!
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"so you just use your student loan deposits to show you have a steady income. That's how I qualified to get my car in college"
Wow! Stack up your debts using a lower interest rate loan to qualify you for the higher interest rate one. Great way to accelerate your debt load!
It's a debt snowball! The Antiramsey.
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My boss and I were talking about retirement the other day. I know he has a financial advisor because he tried to get me to hire the same guy he uses when I started working. Our conversation:
Me: Do you know how much your financial advisor charges you?
Him: I honestly have no idea. He just deducts the charges from my brokerage account....I check the fees at the end of the year, but I don't know what the % is.
Me: You don't have a ballpark estimate on what he charges you? What do you think would be a fair management fee for him to charge you?
Him: I don't know...5%? That's fair right?
Me:...*goes back to work*
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My boss and I were talking about retirement the other day. I know he has a financial advisor because he tried to get me to hire the same guy he uses when I started working. Our conversation:
Me: Do you know how much your financial advisor charges you?
Him: I honestly have no idea. He just deducts the charges from my brokerage account....I check the fees at the end of the year, but I don't know what the % is.
Me: You don't have a ballpark estimate on what he charges you? What do you think would be a fair management fee for him to charge you?
Him: I don't know...5%? That's fair right?
Me:...*goes back to work*
That's when you jump in and offer to cut his fees IN HALF by managing them for only 2.5% :) You'd be a hero.
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"so you just use your student loan deposits to show you have a steady income. That's how I qualified to get my car in college"
Wow! Stack up your debts using a lower interest rate loan to qualify you for the higher interest rate one. Great way to accelerate your debt load!
It's a debt snowball! The Antiramsey.
Race to the bottom I guess. lol I love that the "Antiramsey" I will attempt to fit that into a conversation this week.
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A couple days ago DW's coworker asked DW to accompany her to get a tattoo after work, to which she declined. When DW went to work the next day she found out the tattoo was of coworker's new BF's name, of which she's been dating about a month. This coworker has a history of remarkably bad life decisions, so while I'm not surprised, it still makes my head spin.
Quick update - the boyfriend has now decided they need to take a break. Quite the predictable outcome..
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A couple days ago DW's coworker asked DW to accompany her to get a tattoo after work, to which she declined. When DW went to work the next day she found out the tattoo was of coworker's new BF's name, of which she's been dating about a month. This coworker has a history of remarkably bad life decisions, so while I'm not surprised, it still makes my head spin.
Quick update - the boyfriend has now decided they need to take a break. Quite the predictable outcome..
Reading this made my brain hurt.
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My boss and I were talking about retirement the other day. I know he has a financial advisor because he tried to get me to hire the same guy he uses when I started working. Our conversation:
Me: Do you know how much your financial advisor charges you?
Him: I honestly have no idea. He just deducts the charges from my brokerage account....I check the fees at the end of the year, but I don't know what the % is.
Me: You don't have a ballpark estimate on what he charges you? What do you think would be a fair management fee for him to charge you?
Him: I don't know...5%? That's fair right?
Me:...*goes back to work*
That's when you jump in and offer to cut his fees IN HALF by managing them for only 2.5% :) You'd be a hero.
No, it’s ...5% so that’s like a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent
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A couple days ago DW's coworker asked DW to accompany her to get a tattoo after work, to which she declined. When DW went to work the next day she found out the tattoo was of coworker's new BF's name, of which she's been dating about a month. This coworker has a history of remarkably bad life decisions, so while I'm not surprised, it still makes my head spin.
Quick update - the boyfriend has now decided they need to take a break. Quite the predictable outcome..
Reading this made my brain hurt.
Now her possible number of new boyfriends has been reduced to the men with the same name. Let's hope it was a common name.
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A couple days ago DW's coworker asked DW to accompany her to get a tattoo after work, to which she declined. When DW went to work the next day she found out the tattoo was of coworker's new BF's name, of which she's been dating about a month. This coworker has a history of remarkably bad life decisions, so while I'm not surprised, it still makes my head spin.
Quick update - the boyfriend has now decided they need to take a break. Quite the predictable outcome..
[/quote
I guess this is the new version of knitting the boyfriend a sweater?
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I was in a wedding party and felt bummed I had to skip out on the bachelor party, because we had a big deadline that very weekend. I mentioned to a supervisor that I was thinking of just flying out for a day and catching a redeye back, but decided not to.
"You must be richer than me," she said - 60-years-old and making 2x my pay.
Yeah, maybe, I thought, but didn't say anything.
Omg I have 3 60(something)-yr-old coworkers. They all make more than me. The one who makes the most complains the most about how under paid she is. We all do exactly the same job. It drives me up the wall... Not sure what it is about that age. Ppl seem to lose it if they're still working,
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A couple days ago DW's coworker asked DW to accompany her to get a tattoo after work, to which she declined. When DW went to work the next day she found out the tattoo was of coworker's new BF's name, of which she's been dating about a month. This coworker has a history of remarkably bad life decisions, so while I'm not surprised, it still makes my head spin.
Quick update - the boyfriend has now decided they need to take a break. Quite the predictable outcome..
I'm pretty sure that having your significant other's name tattooed on your body automatically dooms the relationship. It may be a universal law.
Can she at least pull a Johnny Depp and have it changed to something else, like when he changed his "Winona Forever" tattoo to "Wino Forever" after he and Ms. Ryder inevitably split?
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[/quote]
I'm pretty sure that having your significant other's name tattooed on your body automatically dooms the relationship. It may be a universal law.
[/quote]
Completely agree. Please raise your hand if anyone was surprised how this story turned out.
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A couple days ago DW's coworker asked DW to accompany her to get a tattoo after work, to which she declined. When DW went to work the next day she found out the tattoo was of coworker's new BF's name, of which she's been dating about a month. This coworker has a history of remarkably bad life decisions, so while I'm not surprised, it still makes my head spin.
Quick update - the boyfriend has now decided they need to take a break. Quite the predictable outcome..
I'm pretty sure that having your significant other's name tattooed on your body automatically dooms the relationship. It may be a universal law.
Can she at least pull a Johnny Depp and have it changed to something else, like when he changed his "Winona Forever" tattoo to "Wino Forever" after he and Ms. Ryder inevitably split?
If someone tattooed my name on them after dating them ONE MONTH, I'd be fucking off as well. That's just psycho stalker material.
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Today, a coworker invited me to go with her to a hip new ice cream shop that just opened up.
They were selling tiny little popsicles with custom toppings for $5.50 each.
My coworker and I had an awkward little interaction where I told her I wasn't going to get anything. I didn't want to seem snooty by telling here there was no way I blowing $5.50 on a popsicle, that I thought it was a ridiculous waste of money. So I acted like none of the popsicles interested me, which only made her ask me many questions about what flavors I liked in order to try to find me a suitable popsicle.
Needless to say, after an awkward exchange, we left without me getting a popsicle. (She got one, though.)
Then we stopped by a boutique, where my coworker selected several handmade items for purchase, spending $50, while I walked around the store, killing time.
This is a coworker who couldn't afford to attend her own out-of-state graduation (she did her degree online) a month ago.
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This may only make sense to feds, but a fellow fed told me over the weekend that his TSP is all in G fund because the stock market is too much like gambling. I don't know if he got bitten in 2008 or if he actually believes that the market is gambling and therefore doesn't do it (he's a preacher on the side). I bit my tongue, but yikes. I mean, G fund is a guaranteed return, but only at like 2.4% a year. I didn't ask, and he didn't volunteer, but I suspect that he's not contributing beyond the 5% to get the match.
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This may only make sense to feds, but a fellow fed told me over the weekend that his TSP is all in G fund because the stock market is too much like gambling. I don't know if he got bitten in 2008 or if he actually believes that the market is gambling and therefore doesn't do it (he's a preacher on the side). I bit my tongue, but yikes. I mean, G fund is a guaranteed return, but only at like 2.4% a year. I didn't ask, and he didn't volunteer, but I suspect that he's not contributing beyond the 5% to get the match.
That is painful to hear. Please use the opportunity to make the distinction between individual stocks and TSP index funds and bet. timing the market and just letting it be. I just can't stay quiet when I hear this.
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This may only make sense to feds, but a fellow fed told me over the weekend that his TSP is all in G fund because the stock market is too much like gambling. I don't know if he got bitten in 2008 or if he actually believes that the market is gambling and therefore doesn't do it (he's a preacher on the side). I bit my tongue, but yikes. I mean, G fund is a guaranteed return, but only at like 2.4% a year. I didn't ask, and he didn't volunteer, but I suspect that he's not contributing beyond the 5% to get the match.
That is painful to hear. Please use the opportunity to make the distinction between individual stocks and TSP index funds and bet. timing the market and just letting it be. I just can't stay quiet when I hear this.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Thrift_Savings_Plan
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This may only make sense to feds, but a fellow fed told me over the weekend that his TSP is all in G fund because the stock market is too much like gambling. I don't know if he got bitten in 2008 or if he actually believes that the market is gambling and therefore doesn't do it (he's a preacher on the side). I bit my tongue, but yikes. I mean, G fund is a guaranteed return, but only at like 2.4% a year. I didn't ask, and he didn't volunteer, but I suspect that he's not contributing beyond the 5% to get the match.
That is painful to hear. Please use the opportunity to make the distinction between individual stocks and TSP index funds and bet. timing the market and just letting it be. I just can't stay quiet when I hear this.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Thrift_Savings_Plan
This was even worse with my husband. We started dating when he had just left federal service. I asked him about his TSP and he said he knew nothing about it. He said he had never logged in, never contributed anything, etc. He had the automatic 1% contribution and the agency match on that 1% but he said when he started working they never gave him any information about it at all and he had no idea what it even was. I helped him contact them so we could log in and look and it was a pitiful amount just sitting there in the G-Fund. So much waste. I still don't know if they really didn't tell him anything about it, or if they gave them information and he just didn't pay attention to it. To be fair, he is visually impaired and got hired through a special vocational program for blind/VI workers and they did a lot of shady things like putting them all in terminal GS-05 positions even though he had a 4 year degree and qualified for GS-09; the mentality was "you're blind, you're a GS-05. Luckily he worked hard and applied out of that position and was a GS-09 by the time he quit 5 years later. Unfortunately he was the only one hired through that program that had left the GS-05.
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I was in a wedding party and felt bummed I had to skip out on the bachelor party, because we had a big deadline that very weekend. I mentioned to a supervisor that I was thinking of just flying out for a day and catching a redeye back, but decided not to.
This reminded me of a non-work antimustachian story, I don't want to make a new thread. Apologies for hijacking with this story.
I did exactly what you described - declined a bachelor party (mainly to avoid spending the money), and regretted it. My wife pointed out I was being too frugal since I had much more money than every person going to it (probably combined), and I have the self-control to not gamble. So I missed the first night of the bachelor party, but got a cheap flight to Las Vegas the next morning. Got their location by pretending I was sending a bottle of alcohol to them and showed up as a surprise. Fun experience, and got to stay in a free spare bed because one guy was there on points.
What did I come into after night one? A total financial trainwreck, and no gambling had occurred! To try to save money, they avoided the top-rated strip clubs that charge a cover, opting for one that had no cover and offered a free limo to pick you up, plus lap dances were advertised for $20 instead of $30. If you're going to a strip club no matter what, this seems like a decent cost-saving plan on paper.
Well on the ride, the driver convinces them "IT'S VEGAS BABY," and sells them on bottle service. A bottle costs about what all of them would have combined to in covers at the big time strip clubs. (Good sales pitch, even if the math didn't hold up.) They order two bottles of booze, somewhere around $500-$750 per bottle, before even walking in.
What do they walk into? A ghost town. They're the only customers, and there are 20+ strippers ready and waiting to pounce on the first people that walk in. One enterprising woman homes in on the guy she can tell is the mark, Bill. The two of them disappear for awhile. At the big clubs, the customer-to-worker ratio would be flipped, and they could have blended into a crowd, possibly even having to bribe someone to get a stripper to come over to them. Now they have multiple women all over each of them, one by one talking each guy into buying the bachelor a lap dance as soon as the last one ended, and each guy is essentially bullied into lap dances of their own, or else risk spending the entire night saying "No thank you" on repeat and being met with disdain.
Half an hour into being there, Bill returns. He's standing in front of the ATM with his stripper waiting patiently, intently watching as he inserts not one, not two, but THREE credit cards for cash advances. What happened? Exactly what Chris Rock told you doesn't happen. She didn't ask, just went for it all and he didn't decline, and it cost him maxing out 3 cards. And he didn't even seem very happy about the experience.
Two overpriced bottles of booze, at least 25 lap dances, and one ruined credit score later, they get their wits about them that they're being hosed and leave after only about 90 minutes, but it's cost them a small fortune. One of the boys put one of the bottles on his debit card and immediately gets a call from his wife across the country - he's just spent their rent money and he spends the rest of the weekend muttering, "I am so f---ed." So by the time I show up, no one wants to spend a dime and our time is spent drinking for free in the hotel room, and wandering the strip, watching other people gamble, at best. The final night is spent at a bar that served tap water so we could sit and watch football for free. My biggest expense was just buying my friends drinks because I felt so guilty I had spent almost nothing, even though I could afford it best out of all of them. They're great guys and they really tried in advance to slow the bleed, but Vegas won.
I ran into Bill a year later. He told me he was happy that he was almost done paying off the credit cards from the party. We also speculated it probably cost him more in doctors visits when we got home, but the man had suffered enough so we didn't harass him for details on that.
So if you HAVE to go to Vegas for a bachelor party and do it all - show up a day late, don't gamble (duh), and sell your friends that the pricier strip clubs will actually save them money. Let Bill's sacrifice at least be someone else's gain.
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OMG. I'm speechless.
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You just outdid some Hollywood movies... Short of a mike Tyson cameo.
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You just outdid some Hollywood movies... Short of a mike Tyson cameo.
That praise is kind, although my storytelling skills are clearly lacking because I forgot a key piece of the story.
The reason I didn't have an update from Bill until a year later is because the groom ended up calling off the wedding. All that money was blown on a bachelor party for a wedding that didn't happen.
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Omg, that was just...... Unbelievable.
Maybe I should say unbelievably sad.
And the last bit just made the cherry on top.
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I think Bill's fiancée got a lucky escape.
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I was in a wedding party and felt bummed I had to skip out on the bachelor party, because we had a big deadline that very weekend. I mentioned to a supervisor that I was thinking of just flying out for a day and catching a redeye back, but decided not to.
This reminded me of a non-work antimustachian story...............
Sir, you are a hero to have shared that story. I sent it to both my friend and my wife, and will likely be sharing with others.
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I think Bill's fiancée got a lucky escape.
Bill wasn't the groom from what I can tell. He was just saying he didn;t see Bill at the wedding because there wasn't one.
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This is really stupid. It is a joke now, but im not sure it started as one. Anyways it was not what i overheard. It is actually what i was told directly to my face. All my coworkers that are awesome people by the way. Told me that since im a young 25 yr old with a 6 figure job and no debt that i should buy a tesla.... They said this to me over and over and over. And i laughed telling them how it is so stupid. Now its just a joke they say to me cause they know i will laugh. I have told them however that they must really hate me, if they wish me to spend half of my income on a car when i just spent the last 2 years of my life as a slave to a car loan to my 2016 dodge dart. (which i maintain really well and plan on keeping for at least 6 more years.) Advice like this can ruin someones life, What if i bought the car and there was a Lay off? What if an emergency came up and i needed the money? What if i got an amazing job offer but was scared to take it due to the expenses it would require to move?
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I think Bill's fiancée got a lucky escape.
Bill wasn't the groom from what I can tell. He was just saying he didn't see Bill at the wedding because there wasn't one.
Correct, Bill was not the groom. Groom was really the only one that made good decisions since everyone was paying for him.
Bill was that one guy in the group that had been single a little too long and was too nice to say "No thank you" to anyone. As they all recapped the night to me, everyone pretty much agreed that this woman had some kind of 6th sense to go straight for him instead of any of the rest of the crew, because he was the only one she could have screwed over like that. The rest of the women were all happy to try to make their $20 at a time getting the friends to pay for the bachelor, but this woman clearly had her game theory down and made thousands that night.
How she could pick him out within just a few minutes is a truly remarkable skill.
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OK, so the groom was fine and the bride was fine and they got married? And Bill learned a really major lesson?
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OK, so the groom was fine and the bride was fine and they got married? And Bill learned a really major lesson?
Not quite:
You just outdid some Hollywood movies... Short of a mike Tyson cameo.
That praise is kind, although my storytelling skills are clearly lacking because I forgot a key piece of the story.
The reason I didn't have an update from Bill until a year later is because the groom ended up calling off the wedding. All that money was blown on a bachelor party for a wedding that didn't happen.
(emphasis mine)
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OK, so the groom was fine and the bride was fine and they got married? And Bill learned a really major lesson?
Not quite:
You just outdid some Hollywood movies... Short of a mike Tyson cameo.
That praise is kind, although my storytelling skills are clearly lacking because I forgot a key piece of the story.
The reason I didn't have an update from Bill until a year later is because the groom ended up calling off the wedding. All that money was blown on a bachelor party for a wedding that didn't happen.
(emphasis mine)
Obviously I need more tea (caffeine) before I read the forums.
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Just out of curiosity, what does one do when one goes off alone with a stripper for half an hour that costs thousands of dollars?
My only experience with strip clubs is what I saw in Grand Theft Auto.
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Just out of curiosity, what does one do when one goes off alone with a stripper for half an hour that costs thousands of dollars?
My only experience with strip clubs is what I saw in Grand Theft Auto.
Hot coffee
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There is one guy I work with that appears to be a font of bad financial decisions. He and his wife own a boat that they've decided they don't use enough. Their reasoning is that the boat is parked at the marina, which is clearly the problem. His solution to this is to sell the boat in order to buy a BIGGER boat, and to install a dock at their house (they live on the water).
...I think he's missing the point.
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There is one guy I work with that appears to be a font of bad financial decisions. He and his wife own a boat that they've decided they don't use enough. Their reasoning is that the boat is parked at the marina, which is clearly the problem. His solution to this is to sell the boat in order to buy a BIGGER boat, and to install a dock at their house (they live on the water).
...I think he's missing the point.
The home dock won't accommodate their current, smaller boat? (Or is that just inserting logic into a perfectly good excuse? ;)
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Just out of curiosity, what does one do when one goes off alone with a stripper for half an hour that costs thousands of dollars?
My only experience with strip clubs is what I saw in Grand Theft Auto.
Hot coffee
HAhahaha that should explain it if the Chris Rock lyrics didnt.
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Just out of curiosity, what does one do when one goes off alone with a stripper for half an hour that costs thousands of dollars?
My only experience with strip clubs is what I saw in Grand Theft Auto.
Discuss politics of course... I attended a strip club bachelor party once. The woman I talked to seemed just to know what to say to cozy up to a guy. You want a girl working her way through college working in a strip club? That was her story. I suspect if you wanted an ex-astronaut ex-Marine Corp materials scientist former OSHA inspector from Wales looking for a career change so she took up working in stripper clubs - I suspect she would be that woman too. She would just tell you whatever she thought you wanted to hear. Mirrored the client's small talk.
Definitely not my scene.
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The woman I talked to seemed just to know what to say to cozy up to a guy. You want a girl working her way through college working in a strip club? That was her story.
When I was in university the student newspaper regularly ran ads recruiting for escort services, claiming strong demand for intelligent, educated companions.
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This may only make sense to feds, but a fellow fed told me over the weekend that his TSP is all in G fund because the stock market is too much like gambling. I don't know if he got bitten in 2008 or if he actually believes that the market is gambling and therefore doesn't do it (he's a preacher on the side). I bit my tongue, but yikes. I mean, G fund is a guaranteed return, but only at like 2.4% a year. I didn't ask, and he didn't volunteer, but I suspect that he's not contributing beyond the 5% to get the match.
I keep trying to explain to my retiring co-worker that no he does not need to move all of his TSP money into the G-Fund, a 60/40% split is fine.
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When I was in university the student newspaper regularly ran ads recruiting for escort services, claiming strong demand for intelligent, educated companions.
I remember talking to a guy I knew in college and he came from a really small town that opened a strip club on the edge of town. He went with some guys he knew. He said the weirdest thing was seeing some of the girls he went to school with since kindergarten school working the stage. Sort of felt like watching cousins perform. Wasn't his scene either it turned out. Not so sexy after all.
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There is one guy I work with that appears to be a font of bad financial decisions. He and his wife own a boat that they've decided they don't use enough. Their reasoning is that the boat is parked at the marina, which is clearly the problem. His solution to this is to sell the boat in order to buy a BIGGER boat, and to install a dock at their house (they live on the water).
...I think he's missing the point.
The home dock won't accommodate their current, smaller boat? (Or is that just inserting logic into a perfectly good excuse? ;)
is it sunk cost fallacy or just a huge fallacy of its own?
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When I was in university the student newspaper regularly ran ads recruiting for escort services, claiming strong demand for intelligent, educated companions.
I remember talking to a guy I knew in college and he came from a really small town that opened a strip club on the edge of town. He went with some guys he knew. He said the weirdest thing was seeing some of the girls he went to school with since kindergarten school working the stage. Sort of felt like watching cousins perform. Wasn't his scene either it turned out. Not so sexy after all.
Small-town secrets:
Guy1: Hey Bud, saw your wife the other night.
Guy2: Yeah she mentioned, she was working late. Thanks for giving her your business.
Guy1: No problem. Anytime. Happy to help out. (Wink)
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Okay, this was a bit ago, but this one coworker. You guys.
I’m a little bitter because in addition to being clearly bad with money, she was a prickly and “mean girl” sort of personality, but....my gosh, the things she’d say and do. I knew what her salary had to be (barely or less than 30k) because we were in the exact same position and she was hired over a year after me....Most notable fail was when she unfortunately hit a deer driving at night and totaled her previous car, then turned around and bought a brand new Ford Taurus with all the bells and whistles, financing the whole dang thing. She was also a huge partyer and would talk about her wild nights out while complaining often that she couldn’t go to lunch at McDonald’s because “I need to wait until payday! Can’t go out any more!” Yeesh
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This may only make sense to feds, but a fellow fed told me over the weekend that his TSP is all in G fund because the stock market is too much like gambling. I don't know if he got bitten in 2008 or if he actually believes that the market is gambling and therefore doesn't do it (he's a preacher on the side). I bit my tongue, but yikes. I mean, G fund is a guaranteed return, but only at like 2.4% a year. I didn't ask, and he didn't volunteer, but I suspect that he's not contributing beyond the 5% to get the match.
I keep trying to explain to my retiring co-worker that no he does not need to move all of his TSP money into the G-Fund, a 60/40% split is fine.
A co-worker of mine is so afraid of the stock market he's 100% G-fund. This is an 11-step-7 with 20 years of service and about $110,000!
My wife is big on the G-fund, but, as she put it, between the 2 of us, we're balanced, because I have nearly no aversion to risk, so I'm all growth/growth&income in my TSP, Roth, and 403(b).
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I'm currently listening to a couple of coworkers complaining about how their relatively newly-built condos have thermostats that don't let them adjust the AC temp below 72.
This is in Minnesota. Our temps haven't even gotten hot yet this year. (Max so far is 85, I think?) My husband is a native here and doesn't deal well with heat, but we still haven't installed our A/C window unit for the summer because strategic opening/closing windows has kept our house at 78 or lower.
The concept of cooling your house to 72 is just bonkers to me.
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The concept of cooling your house to 72 is just bonkers to me.
Good on you. I need it cool in the summer or I'm extremely uncomfortable.
In the winter we keep it cool at 60, except at night I'll turn it up to 64 so everyone can sleep more comfortably. If someone is sick, I might do 66 all day.
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I'm currently listening to a couple of coworkers complaining about how their relatively newly-built condos have thermostats that don't let them adjust the AC temp below 72.
This is in Minnesota. Our temps haven't even gotten hot yet this year. (Max so far is 85, I think?) My husband is a native here and doesn't deal well with heat, but we still haven't installed our A/C window unit for the summer because strategic opening/closing windows has kept our house at 78 or lower.
The concept of cooling your house to 72 is just bonkers to me.
Yeah, that is nuts. We're starting our first so-called heat wave in MN, and so we installed our AC units in anticipation... but we haven't turn them on yet. It's supposed to get to 90 tomorrow and 92 Sunday, but overnight temps are gonna get back down to low 70s, so it's 50/50 whether we'll turn on the bedroom unit to have it cool while we sleep. (It's only 83 right now, so I'm sitting comfortably in my living room with the windows open, watching the US/France women's soccer match. Haven't even bothered to turn on the ceiling fan yet.)
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Are these the people who put the AC to arctic temps and wear 2 sweaters, then set the heat to 82 and wear tank tops?
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The concept of cooling your house to 72 is just bonkers to me.
Couldn’t agree more. We keep our house at a comfy 77 in summertime Atlanta (it’s 95+ here with 80% humidity)— told our coworkers this the other day and they gasped in horror!
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We set the a/c cool enough to make it run enough to keep the interior humidity in check. At this time of year, that's 77/78 degrees.
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That Vegas story deserved it's own thread
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Eh, I cool my house to 72. I have solar and I prefer to be cold. I make up for it by not turning on the heat until it gets down to 58.
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Eh, I cool my house to 72. I have solar and I prefer to be cold. I make up for it by not turning on the heat until it gets down to 58.
Sometimes, at night, I um, get really hot. So I turn down the AC to around 73-74. I'm not even having official hot flashes yet.
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I'm New Englandish and it's 85 degrees out and we have fans going. We do have two window ACs but we'd don't put them in unless it's going to be higher than 70 at night. I've got a disabled kid and the air is basically for her. In the winter the heat doesn't go above 68 and at night it drops down to 58. I've got a co-worker that keeps her house at 75 year round even at night!
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We set the a/c cool enough to make it run enough to keep the interior humidity in check. At this time of year, that's 77/78 degrees.
This. I'm fine with heat if the air is fairly dry, but when it's humid and hotter than 80ºF inside the house, it's really hard to concentrate on work (I work remotely from a home office). Our window AC units are set at 77ºF. Yesterday was the first day that we turned them on this year.
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I'm New Englandish and it's 85 degrees out and we have fans going. We do have two window ACs but we'd don't put them in unless it's going to be higher than 70 at night. I've got a disabled kid and the air is basically for her. In the winter the heat doesn't go above 68 and at night it drops down to 58. I've got a co-worker that keeps her house at 75 year round even at night!
We're in Quebec and those are exactly what we set the thermostat at. :)
I deal better with heat than cold, personally, and we live near a lake so that cools down the house at night - temps drop to about 60ish at night Ben when it's 85 during the day.
In winter, I get cold easily... but no one else does, so I got an electric throw blanket and now I can stay warm while reading without hearing the whole house, so tha works.
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I remember talking to a guy I knew in college and he came from a really small town that opened a strip club on the edge of town. He went with some guys he knew. He said the weirdest thing was seeing some of the girls he went to school with since kindergarten school working the stage. Sort of felt like watching cousins perform. Wasn't his scene either it turned out. Not so sexy after all.
LOL Reminded me of that anime where one guy says: "I was anticipating that eroge (erotic game) so much! But than my sister got the voice actor role and I just can't enjoy it anymore."
I'm currently listening to a couple of coworkers complaining about how their relatively newly-built condos have thermostats that don't let them adjust the AC temp below 72.
The concept of cooling your house to 72 is just bonkers to me.
I could understand if it is the sleeping room - I prefer ~66F there. (And I would be really happy when it tomorrow gets to 38C outside (100F) I could have an AC.)
But in any other room? Why should you go lower than what you can comfortably sit in?
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Ah, thermostats. We get so many complaints at work, because the air system isn't zoned properly, and the air handlers can't handle the load, so parts of the building are freezing while other people are sweating - sometimes just across the hall! My office is so cold I keep a sweater at work in the summer, as it's frequently in the 60's inside. At home, we finally turned on the air last week when it was 90+ for several days in a row with high humidity. Set the thermostat to 80 - just enough for the system to run periodically and keep the humidity down.
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Eh, I cool my house to 72. I have solar and I prefer to be cold. I make up for it by not turning on the heat until it gets down to 58.
Sometimes, at night, I um, get really hot. So I turn down the AC to around 73-74. I'm not even having official hot flashes yet.
Me, too!
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Bumped our thermostat up another degree today. Getting used to summer I guess. Now sitting at 78F. As long as if keeps the humidity in check.
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Just to keep going:
I completely forgot about this one as it was years ago. I had a friend & coworker who leased brand new cars every three years. We were paid monthly and coworker had to wait until payday to go grocery shopping.
Meanwhile, I was driving a reliable paid-off car I had bought used as a student (and I which I wound up keeping a total of 11 years). Coworker was not interested in talking about doing anything other than leasing new cars. Did not complain about money but clearly had no cushion at all.
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Just to keep going:
I completely forgot about this one as it was years ago. I had a friend & coworker who leased brand new cars every three years. We were paid monthly and coworker had to wait until payday to go grocery shopping.
Meanwhile, I was driving a reliable paid-off car I had bought used as a student (and I which I wound up keeping a total of 11 years). Coworker was not interested in talking about doing anything other than leasing new cars. Did not complain about money but clearly had no cushion at all.
One of my young coworkers currently doesn't own a car, but he enjoys looking at possible cars. Another young coworker said that we might be interested into leasing a car. Currently he is driving an old beater car that he repairs himself. We other three people tried to concince him that leasing is really the dumbest financial choice for a car. I hope he listens to us.
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About 7 years ago, I met a lady through work friends who was going through a horrific divorce. Backstory, she was married to her highschool sweetheart for 25+ years and had 5 kids. While I don't think they were crazy spenders, based on several conversations, it was clear they had no financial cushion despite decades of hard work. He was a building contractor specializing in gutting and redoing houses and she worked as a school administrator at the county level. Their kids were married with kids of their own at that point. Shortly after I met her, she filed for divorce after coming home one day and finding her husband at home with a prostitute! Devastated, she moved out of the house into a small 2 bedroom apartment (she needed the second bedroom "for her stuff" - which she piled up to the ceiling in the second bedroom).. She was so financially strapped she had to ask her church for first month's rent and deposit. Husband begged her to come back, but she had had enough. While married, they could scrape by, but once she moved out, their finances imploded. He fell behind on the mortgage and they lost the home to forclosure. Because they had never had any kind of cushion, she was left with nothing after the divorce.
As time passed, I would see her now and again and thought she was recovering well. She still worked for the county school system (had been with them for close to 15 years at that point, and I knew her apartment wasn't very expensive and she didn't have to come up with a chunk of $$$ to move in since her church had helped her out). Every time I ran into her, she always had a large Starbucks coffee in her hand and would pull up into whatever restaurant parking lot we were meeting at in her Lincoln Navigator.
Imagine my surprise when during one of these lunches she tearfully mentioned that she had just left the garage where she got her vehicle serviced and had insisted the mechanic rotate her rear tires to the front as the front tires had no tread left on them and she didn't have any money to get new tires. As it was winter and we lived in an area that got a fair amount of snow and ice, rotating the back tires to the front was "all she could do at the moment" given her finances.
I very very gently (given everything that she had been through at that point) asked her a few leading questions. 1) any chance your one of your adult kids could help you out? ("No, I don't want to be a burden". 2) can your church help out again? ("No, they said there are others in need, and they already helped with the apartment." 3) maybe a smaller apartment? ("No, I barely have room for all of my stuff as it is.") 4) a part-time job? ("Haven't I worked long and hard enough as it is? I shouldn't have to get a second job!" 5) any way you can sell the Lincoln Navigator and buy a smaller, more efficient car, like a 7 year old Honda Civic or Tercel (like I was driving at the time) where replacing 4 tires would cost the same as replacing 1 tire on the Lincoln Navigator? After all, if you can no longer afford to maintain the vehicle you have and it's no longer safe to drive, maybe you should downsize?
You would have thought I had suggested she harvest her grandkids for organs! She immediately turned and vehemently stated that she had always driven a large vehicle and was never going to be forced into a small car.
I immediately disengaged from the conversation and made a mental note not to park anywhere near her until she got new tires.
Fast forward, a few months after that conversation, she had to move into a smaller 1 bedroom apartment (not sure what she did with her stuff). And then within 2 years, quit her job with the county (I understand she quit before she had 20 years in, so received a significantly smaller pension and then moved in with one of her sons in another state). Apparently she could not make ends meet on just her county salary (while driving her giant SUV, meeting friends at restaurants for lunch, and buying Starbucks everyday) for another 2 years to get to her 20 years with the county. Any suggestions that she actually COULD make it if she cut back on her expenses was met with fierce resistance and even open hostility.
Don't get me wrong, I totally sympathize with the crap sandwich her ex husband dealt her, but couldn't help but feel sorry and frustrated for and with her that she just would not change any of her spending behavior even though it meant a smaller pension and loss of independence. She now relies on the good graces of her son and daughter-in-law with whom she lives rent free. Hopefully their goodwill never runs out...
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<...>
Don't get me wrong, I totally sympathize with the crap sandwich her ex husband dealt her, but couldn't help but feel sorry and frustrated for and with her that she just would not change any of her spending behavior even though it meant a smaller pension and loss of independence. She now relies on the good graces of her son and daughter-in-law with whom she lives rent free. Hopefully their goodwill never runs out...
Some people continuously live above their means and that is not sustainable. Smart people realise their financial shortcomings in time and cut back on their expenses. It is sad that not everyone has that skill. Now she has become the burden to her son that she didn't want to be.
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<...>
Don't get me wrong, I totally sympathize with the crap sandwich her ex husband dealt her, but couldn't help but feel sorry and frustrated for and with her that she just would not change any of her spending behavior even though it meant a smaller pension and loss of independence. She now relies on the good graces of her son and daughter-in-law with whom she lives rent free. Hopefully their goodwill never runs out...
Some people continuously live above their means and that is not sustainable. Smart people realise their financial shortcomings in time and cut back on their expenses. It is sad that not everyone has that skill. Now she has become the burden to her son that she didn't want to be.
I saw it happen with one of my own parents. It's really difficult to watch a slow motion car crash when you know it's still possible for them to avoid the crash, and then they don't. I know divorce is difficult and changing your lifestyle is difficult but sometimes you just have to adapt to the circumstances. Seems not everyone is able and willing to do that.
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Just out of curiosity, what does one do when one goes off alone with a stripper for half an hour that costs thousands of dollars?
My only experience with strip clubs is what I saw in Grand Theft Auto.
https://entertainment.theonion.com/bill-maher-spends-all-night-arguing-with-republican-hoo-1819567438 (https://entertainment.theonion.com/bill-maher-spends-all-night-arguing-with-republican-hoo-1819567438)
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Imagine my surprise when during one of these lunches she tearfully mentioned that she had just left the garage where she got her vehicle serviced and had insisted the mechanic rotate her rear tires to the front as the front tires had no tread left on them and she didn't have any money to get new tires. As it was winter and we lived in an area that got a fair amount of snow and ice, rotating the back tires to the front was "all she could do at the moment" given her finances.
I very very gently (given everything that she had been through at that point) asked her a few leading questions. 1) any chance your one of your adult kids could help you out? ("No, I don't want to be a burden". 2) can your church help out again? ("No, they said there are others in need, and they already helped with the apartment." 3) maybe a smaller apartment? ("No, I barely have room for all of my stuff as it is.") 4) a part-time job? ("Haven't I worked long and hard enough as it is? I shouldn't have to get a second job!" 5) any way you can sell the Lincoln Navigator and buy a smaller, more efficient car, like a 7 year old Honda Civic or Tercel (like I was driving at the time) where replacing 4 tires would cost the same as replacing 1 tire on the Lincoln Navigator? After all, if you can no longer afford to maintain the vehicle you have and it's no longer safe to drive, maybe you should downsize?
You would have thought I had suggested she harvest her grandkids for organs! She immediately turned and vehemently stated that she had always driven a large vehicle and was never going to be forced into a small car.
Bad enough she can't see the stupidity of this for her own sake, but driving a 6,000lb SUV with bald tires is endangering everyone on the road. People like this need some sense smacked into them. Note that I didn't say she "deserves" to be smacked, because what she deserves is completely irrelevant. If people could internalize this idea, I think it would completely change their outlook.
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I never understood why people can’t look at their income versus expenses and realize they need to cut back.
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As devastated as she was, she never should have gotten a divorce. Everyone is going to make mistakes.
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Imagine my surprise when during one of these lunches she tearfully mentioned that she had just left the garage where she got her vehicle serviced and had insisted the mechanic rotate her rear tires to the front as the front tires had no tread left on them and she didn't have any money to get new tires. As it was winter and we lived in an area that got a fair amount of snow and ice, rotating the back tires to the front was "all she could do at the moment" given her finances.
I very very gently (given everything that she had been through at that point) asked her a few leading questions. 1) any chance your one of your adult kids could help you out? ("No, I don't want to be a burden". 2) can your church help out again? ("No, they said there are others in need, and they already helped with the apartment." 3) maybe a smaller apartment? ("No, I barely have room for all of my stuff as it is.") 4) a part-time job? ("Haven't I worked long and hard enough as it is? I shouldn't have to get a second job!" 5) any way you can sell the Lincoln Navigator and buy a smaller, more efficient car, like a 7 year old Honda Civic or Tercel (like I was driving at the time) where replacing 4 tires would cost the same as replacing 1 tire on the Lincoln Navigator? After all, if you can no longer afford to maintain the vehicle you have and it's no longer safe to drive, maybe you should downsize?
You would have thought I had suggested she harvest her grandkids for organs! She immediately turned and vehemently stated that she had always driven a large vehicle and was never going to be forced into a small car.
Bad enough she can't see the stupidity of this for her own sake, but driving a 6,000lb SUV with bald tires is endangering everyone on the road. People like this need some sense smacked into them. Note that I didn't say she "deserves" to be smacked, because what she deserves is completely irrelevant. If people could internalize this idea, I think it would completely change their outlook.
The people like this I have known (sadly, too many) don't verbalize it but they don't change because they feel they have been punished enough - in this case, the financial problems caused by an unfaithful spouse. As they have done nothing (or at least believe so) to deserve this fate, they have mentally drawn a line in the sand to put an end to the suffering they have to endure. They are emotionally in pain and their coping mechanism is to put an end to the lifestyle impacts of their personal crisis. It's tough to watch because absent getting some therapy, cutting back even more on spending just makes their emotional suffering greater. Contemplating additional sacrifice is going to trigger thoughts of "when will this ever end, what he did to me just continues to make me suffer and suffer. It's been X years and it keeps getting worse. i can't take any more." That allows her to feel like she's at least treading water in a situation she had nothing to do with. Almost a no-win situation... act rationally financially, feel worse emotionally. It's different than someone who overspends out of desire to be ostentatious or to keep up with the Joneses.
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The people like this I have known (sadly, too many) don't verbalize it but they don't change because they feel they have been punished enough - in this case, the financial problems caused by an unfaithful spouse. As they have done nothing (or at least believe so) to deserve this fate, they have mentally drawn a line in the sand to put an end to the suffering they have to endure. They are emotionally in pain and their coping mechanism is to put an end to the lifestyle impacts of their personal crisis. It's tough to watch because absent getting some therapy, cutting back even more on spending just makes their emotional suffering greater. Contemplating additional sacrifice is going to trigger thoughts of "when will this ever end, what he did to me just continues to make me suffer and suffer. It's been X years and it keeps getting worse. i can't take any more." That allows her to feel like she's at least treading water in a situation she had nothing to do with. Almost a no-win situation... act rationally financially, feel worse emotionally. It's different than someone who overspends out of desire to be ostentatious or to keep up with the Joneses.
I wonder if it's also a way to avoid taking responsibility for one's own destiny. By contrast, I know someone who went through a very messy divorce after being a SAHM for over a decade. She found herself middle-aged with no job, no work history, and a lot of expenses. I know it was really, really, really hard for her for several years, but she found something she was good at, cut her expenses, and worked her tail off. It literally took years, but she's successful and independent (not FI, but more than self-sufficient) now. I don't know what kind of car she drives now, but a few years ago, she upgraded to a 12-year-old Accord, and excitedly told me about how awesome it was--power everything, sunroof, leather, comfy, quiet, large enough to carry the gear she uses for her job.
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Imagine my surprise when during one of these lunches she tearfully mentioned that she had just left the garage where she got her vehicle serviced and had insisted the mechanic rotate her rear tires to the front as the front tires had no tread left on them and she didn't have any money to get new tires. As it was winter and we lived in an area that got a fair amount of snow and ice, rotating the back tires to the front was "all she could do at the moment" given her finances.
I very very gently (given everything that she had been through at that point) asked her a few leading questions. 1) any chance your one of your adult kids could help you out? ("No, I don't want to be a burden". 2) can your church help out again? ("No, they said there are others in need, and they already helped with the apartment." 3) maybe a smaller apartment? ("No, I barely have room for all of my stuff as it is.") 4) a part-time job? ("Haven't I worked long and hard enough as it is? I shouldn't have to get a second job!" 5) any way you can sell the Lincoln Navigator and buy a smaller, more efficient car, like a 7 year old Honda Civic or Tercel (like I was driving at the time) where replacing 4 tires would cost the same as replacing 1 tire on the Lincoln Navigator? After all, if you can no longer afford to maintain the vehicle you have and it's no longer safe to drive, maybe you should downsize?
You would have thought I had suggested she harvest her grandkids for organs! She immediately turned and vehemently stated that she had always driven a large vehicle and was never going to be forced into a small car.
Bad enough she can't see the stupidity of this for her own sake, but driving a 6,000lb SUV with bald tires is endangering everyone on the road. People like this need some sense smacked into them. Note that I didn't say she "deserves" to be smacked, because what she deserves is completely irrelevant. If people could internalize this idea, I think it would completely change their outlook.
The people like this I have known (sadly, too many) don't verbalize it but they don't change because they feel they have been punished enough - in this case, the financial problems caused by an unfaithful spouse. As they have done nothing (or at least believe so) to deserve this fate, they have mentally drawn a line in the sand to put an end to the suffering they have to endure. They are emotionally in pain and their coping mechanism is to put an end to the lifestyle impacts of their personal crisis. It's tough to watch because absent getting some therapy, cutting back even more on spending just makes their emotional suffering greater. Contemplating additional sacrifice is going to trigger thoughts of "when will this ever end, what he did to me just continues to make me suffer and suffer. It's been X years and it keeps getting worse. i can't take any more." That allows her to feel like she's at least treading water in a situation she had nothing to do with. Almost a no-win situation... act rationally financially, feel worse emotionally. It's different than someone who overspends out of desire to be ostentatious or to keep up with the Joneses.
This... This captures it best. Any sacrifice she had to make from that moment onward was just another undeserved slap to the facel... She could not act rationally (kept driving an unsafe vehicle endangering herself and others around her) because the thought of giving it up made her feel even worse emotionally (not only did he cheat on me with a prostitute! but we lost the house, I live in a tiny apartment, and now I've got to trade in my luxury SUV???!!!) I felt terrible for her (although greatly offset by her seeming willingness to barrel 70 mph down the highway on threadbare tires potentially taking out some poor family driving on the road at the same time...)
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I don't know, I still have very little sympathy for people who feel that they are entitled to luxuries after unfortunate circumstances. I guess a lot depends on the definition of "luxury." For myself, I can always look back on a childhood where we had very little material things, but were no less happy. If awful things happened and we lost everything and I had to go back to that, I wouldn't consider it an unthinkable sacrifice. I think the difference is that some people have either never been without certain things, or were miserable during that part of their lives, so they equate the material luxuries that they have with happiness.
This is important for me to think about as we raise our children basically in the lap of luxury.
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Imagine my surprise when during one of these lunches she tearfully mentioned that she had just left the garage where she got her vehicle serviced and had insisted the mechanic rotate her rear tires to the front as the front tires had no tread left on them and she didn't have any money to get new tires. As it was winter and we lived in an area that got a fair amount of snow and ice, rotating the back tires to the front was "all she could do at the moment" given her finances.
I very very gently (given everything that she had been through at that point) asked her a few leading questions. 1) any chance your one of your adult kids could help you out? ("No, I don't want to be a burden". 2) can your church help out again? ("No, they said there are others in need, and they already helped with the apartment." 3) maybe a smaller apartment? ("No, I barely have room for all of my stuff as it is.") 4) a part-time job? ("Haven't I worked long and hard enough as it is? I shouldn't have to get a second job!" 5) any way you can sell the Lincoln Navigator and buy a smaller, more efficient car, like a 7 year old Honda Civic or Tercel (like I was driving at the time) where replacing 4 tires would cost the same as replacing 1 tire on the Lincoln Navigator? After all, if you can no longer afford to maintain the vehicle you have and it's no longer safe to drive, maybe you should downsize?
You would have thought I had suggested she harvest her grandkids for organs! She immediately turned and vehemently stated that she had always driven a large vehicle and was never going to be forced into a small car.
Bad enough she can't see the stupidity of this for her own sake, but driving a 6,000lb SUV with bald tires is endangering everyone on the road. People like this need some sense smacked into them. Note that I didn't say she "deserves" to be smacked, because what she deserves is completely irrelevant. If people could internalize this idea, I think it would completely change their outlook.
The people like this I have known (sadly, too many) don't verbalize it but they don't change because they feel they have been punished enough - in this case, the financial problems caused by an unfaithful spouse. As they have done nothing (or at least believe so) to deserve this fate, they have mentally drawn a line in the sand to put an end to the suffering they have to endure. They are emotionally in pain and their coping mechanism is to put an end to the lifestyle impacts of their personal crisis. It's tough to watch because absent getting some therapy, cutting back even more on spending just makes their emotional suffering greater. Contemplating additional sacrifice is going to trigger thoughts of "when will this ever end, what he did to me just continues to make me suffer and suffer. It's been X years and it keeps getting worse. i can't take any more." That allows her to feel like she's at least treading water in a situation she had nothing to do with. Almost a no-win situation... act rationally financially, feel worse emotionally. It's different than someone who overspends out of desire to be ostentatious or to keep up with the Joneses.
This... This captures it best. Any sacrifice she had to make from that moment onward was just another undeserved slap to the facel... She could not act rationally (kept driving an unsafe vehicle endangering herself and others around her) because the thought of giving it up made her feel even worse emotionally (not only did he cheat on me with a prostitute! but we lost the house, I live in a tiny apartment, and now I've got to trade in my luxury SUV???!!!) I felt terrible for her (although greatly offset by her seeming willingness to barrel 70 mph down the highway on threadbare tires potentially taking out some poor family driving on the road at the same time...)
Add to this her inability and/or lack of desire to operate a jack and a tire iron. There are secondhand tire places where she could pick up a couple serviceable tires for what she probably paid for that rotation and the restaurant lunch.
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I don't like state vehicle inspections (the hassle, the potential games they play) but when I hear stories like this I want people like her to get ticketed or warned into buying tires for the safety of the rest of us.
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Just out of curiosity, what does one do when one goes off alone with a stripper for half an hour that costs thousands of dollars?
My only experience with strip clubs is what I saw in Grand Theft Auto.
https://entertainment.theonion.com/bill-maher-spends-all-night-arguing-with-republican-hoo-1819567438 (https://entertainment.theonion.com/bill-maher-spends-all-night-arguing-with-republican-hoo-1819567438)
Oh god, I almost ate the onion (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ate%20the%20Onion)
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I don't like state vehicle inspections (the hassle, the potential games they play) but when I hear stories like this I want people like her to get ticketed or warned into buying tires for the safety of the rest of us.
What games do they play? I've only lived in one state with inspections, and it seemed pretty reasonable... price was fine, didn't have any issues. Had a newer car back then.
I wish my state had inspections. We have emissions, so I don't see why they couldn't just roll those together. Emissions plus a quick checklist would solve so many problems.
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I don't like state vehicle inspections (the hassle, the potential games they play) but when I hear stories like this I want people like her to get ticketed or warned into buying tires for the safety of the rest of us.
What games do they play? I've only lived in one state with inspections, and it seemed pretty reasonable... price was fine, didn't have any issues. Had a newer car back then.
I wish my state had inspections. We have emissions, so I don't see why they couldn't just roll those together. Emissions plus a quick checklist would solve so many problems.
Not in the USA, but I’ve had random shit like an inspector failing my Nissan Silvia for missing a chassis rail. Fucking numb nuts had me worried, until a google search gave the answer, my car has an a-symmetrical chassis.
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As devastated as she was, she never should have gotten a divorce. Everyone is going to make mistakes.
Bringing a prostitute into the marital bed was not a 'mistake'. It was a betrayal.
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I don't like state vehicle inspections (the hassle, the potential games they play) but when I hear stories like this I want people like her to get ticketed or warned into buying tires for the safety of the rest of us.
What games do they play? I've only lived in one state with inspections, and it seemed pretty reasonable... price was fine, didn't have any issues. Had a newer car back then.
I wish my state had inspections. We have emissions, so I don't see why they couldn't just roll those together. Emissions plus a quick checklist would solve so many problems.
I've had my car failed for worn brake pads despite pulling out calipers and showing the tech that they measure at twice the lower limit. They wanted $400 to replace them, so I took the fail sticker and paid for another inspection somewhere else where the brakes passed just fine because they were fine. Still in favor of safety inspection though, just not that shop which is a bummer because I had free inspections for the life of the vehicle (bought it new in my pre-mustache days). It's hardly free if they make bogus claims about repair needs and won't pass a safe car.
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As devastated as she was, she never should have gotten a divorce. Everyone is going to make mistakes.
Bringing a prostitute into the marital bed was not a 'mistake'. It was a betrayal.
This. I'd see a divorce as the only reasonable step. (And to be clear: if my husband came home and was like 'X person... I'd really like to', or even 'hun, I messseeeeeed uppppp last night...', it wouldn't necessarily be a relationship-ending betrayal - like, the problem is the trust and lying and betrayal of trust, not specifically where he puts his dick. But 'oh hey, I found out that you've been deliberately lying and cheating on me to the point of bringing prostitutes into MY BED' is just the extreme. How are you supposed to trust anything about them, ever?)
HOWEVER, once the divorce occurs and you're free of the betraying untrustworthy asshat (and have paid for a fairly in-depth STD panel...), the NEXT reasonable step is to evaluate your finances and make your life suit your resources, and figure out how to fit the things that make you happpy in your list of priorities. (I have a hard time believing that Starbucks every morning is they key to happiness, but if Starbucks coffee, drunk at the table with a friend, once a week, is facilitating your social life? That's a 5$ rent for table space and friend-time, and ok, most people can make that work.)
The problem isn't the divorce, it's the everything after.
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As devastated as she was, she never should have gotten a divorce. Everyone is going to make mistakes.
Bringing a prostitute into the marital bed was not a 'mistake'. It was a betrayal.
Yeah, that's not a mistake. He brought the prostitute home, to the marital bed. It almost sounds like he wanted to be caught. I'd never fault someone for choosing divorce in that situation. I would.
Her mistakes after the divorce, though, are on her. What a sad disaster.
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I don't like state vehicle inspections (the hassle, the potential games they play) but when I hear stories like this I want people like her to get ticketed or warned into buying tires for the safety of the rest of us.
What games do they play? I've only lived in one state with inspections, and it seemed pretty reasonable... price was fine, didn't have any issues. Had a newer car back then.
I wish my state had inspections. We have emissions, so I don't see why they couldn't just roll those together. Emissions plus a quick checklist would solve so many problems.
I've had my car failed for worn brake pads despite pulling out calipers and showing the tech that they measure at twice the lower limit. They wanted $400 to replace them, so I took the fail sticker and paid for another inspection somewhere else where the brakes passed just fine because they were fine. Still in favor of safety inspection though, just not that shop which is a bummer because I had free inspections for the life of the vehicle (bought it new in my pre-mustache days). It's hardly free if they make bogus claims about repair needs and won't pass a safe car.
This. The charge for the inspection is usually regulated at a rate that doesn't make them any money, so they have an incentive to find things to fail you over, in hopes that you'll have them fix it for you. They've got you somewhat over a barrel, since unlike voluntary maintenance, you can't just ignore the "recommendation" legally (though you can take it to a different mechanic, at the cost of a second inspection fee, as FindingFI wisely did).
And on the opposite extreme, there are places that are known to pass just about anything with wink and a smile. They attract the folks who know their cars are on their last legs, but can't/won't afford to fix or replace them properly. Presumably the incentive there is customer loyalty, since these same poorly maintained cars are likely to break down and need major work done sooner rather than later.
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I don't like state vehicle inspections (the hassle, the potential games they play) but when I hear stories like this I want people like her to get ticketed or warned into buying tires for the safety of the rest of us.
What games do they play? I've only lived in one state with inspections, and it seemed pretty reasonable... price was fine, didn't have any issues. Had a newer car back then.
I wish my state had inspections. We have emissions, so I don't see why they couldn't just roll those together. Emissions plus a quick checklist would solve so many problems.
I've had my car failed for worn brake pads despite pulling out calipers and showing the tech that they measure at twice the lower limit. They wanted $400 to replace them, so I took the fail sticker and paid for another inspection somewhere else where the brakes passed just fine because they were fine. Still in favor of safety inspection though, just not that shop which is a bummer because I had free inspections for the life of the vehicle (bought it new in my pre-mustache days). It's hardly free if they make bogus claims about repair needs and won't pass a safe car.
FWIW, Texas has a way around that--places that do inspections aren't allowed to do any car repair.
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I don't like state vehicle inspections (the hassle, the potential games they play) but when I hear stories like this I want people like her to get ticketed or warned into buying tires for the safety of the rest of us.
What games do they play? I've only lived in one state with inspections, and it seemed pretty reasonable... price was fine, didn't have any issues. Had a newer car back then.
I wish my state had inspections. We have emissions, so I don't see why they couldn't just roll those together. Emissions plus a quick checklist would solve so many problems.
I've had my car failed for worn brake pads despite pulling out calipers and showing the tech that they measure at twice the lower limit. They wanted $400 to replace them, so I took the fail sticker and paid for another inspection somewhere else where the brakes passed just fine because they were fine. Still in favor of safety inspection though, just not that shop which is a bummer because I had free inspections for the life of the vehicle (bought it new in my pre-mustache days). It's hardly free if they make bogus claims about repair needs and won't pass a safe car.
FWIW, Texas has a way around that--places that do inspections aren't allowed to do any car repair.
Yeah that makes total sense.
As for places passing people who shouldn’t...well it’s on the state to audit and enforce.
People who do emissions testing on newer cars here make plenty... it’s like $50 and they typically just do a visual inspection of the exhaust system and query the cars computer on emissions results. I was kinda pissed when I realized they didn’t hook up an actual tester like I’ve seen them do in the past
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I don't like state vehicle inspections (the hassle, the potential games they play) but when I hear stories like this I want people like her to get ticketed or warned into buying tires for the safety of the rest of us.
What games do they play? I've only lived in one state with inspections, and it seemed pretty reasonable... price was fine, didn't have any issues. Had a newer car back then.
I wish my state had inspections. We have emissions, so I don't see why they couldn't just roll those together. Emissions plus a quick checklist would solve so many problems.
I've had my car failed for worn brake pads despite pulling out calipers and showing the tech that they measure at twice the lower limit. They wanted $400 to replace them, so I took the fail sticker and paid for another inspection somewhere else where the brakes passed just fine because they were fine. Still in favor of safety inspection though, just not that shop which is a bummer because I had free inspections for the life of the vehicle (bought it new in my pre-mustache days). It's hardly free if they make bogus claims about repair needs and won't pass a safe car.
FWIW, Texas has a way around that--places that do inspections aren't allowed to do any car repair.
That sounds like the rules we have here in socialist Germany, where the ever meddling government made a law against the free market and we have the TÜV that inspects cars. Their people make rounds to the repairmans who basically only lift up your car for the TÜV guys to look at. (Of course you are free to ask the repairman to make repairs before that happens, but there is no presure on it.)
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As devastated as she was, she never should have gotten a divorce. Everyone is going to make mistakes.
Bringing a prostitute into the marital bed was not a 'mistake'. It was a betrayal.
Yeah, that's not a mistake. He brought the prostitute home, to the marital bed. It almost sounds like he wanted to be caught. I'd never fault someone for choosing divorce in that situation. I would.
Her mistakes after the divorce, though, are on her. What a sad disaster.
@Enigma, I don't understand your response. Were you being sarcastic? Making some kind of joke? I'm struggling to give your comment the benefit of the doubt.
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A couple days ago DW's coworker asked DW to accompany her to get a tattoo after work, to which she declined. When DW went to work the next day she found out the tattoo was of coworker's new BF's name, of which she's been dating about a month. This coworker has a history of remarkably bad life decisions, so while I'm not surprised, it still makes my head spin.
Quick update - the boyfriend has now decided they need to take a break. Quite the predictable outcome..
This train wreck has continued to deliver. Apparently they have now been back together off and on but now with a new twist - she's pregnant!!
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A couple days ago DW's coworker asked DW to accompany her to get a tattoo after work, to which she declined. When DW went to work the next day she found out the tattoo was of coworker's new BF's name, of which she's been dating about a month. This coworker has a history of remarkably bad life decisions, so while I'm not surprised, it still makes my head spin.
Quick update - the boyfriend has now decided they need to take a break. Quite the predictable outcome..
This train wreck has continued to deliver. Apparently they have now been back together off and on but now with a new twist - she's pregnant!!
So now she can get a new tattoo of the baby's name!
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A couple days ago DW's coworker asked DW to accompany her to get a tattoo after work, to which she declined. When DW went to work the next day she found out the tattoo was of coworker's new BF's name, of which she's been dating about a month. This coworker has a history of remarkably bad life decisions, so while I'm not surprised, it still makes my head spin.
Quick update - the boyfriend has now decided they need to take a break. Quite the predictable outcome..
This train wreck has continued to deliver. Apparently they have now been back together off and on but now with a new twist - she's pregnant!!
So now she can get a new tattoo of the baby's name!
Maybe she and the baby can get matching tattoos.
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Maybe she and the baby can get matching tattoos.
How about coordinating?
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/07/d3/53/07d35311e1b6672358056fb96d259059.jpg)
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Heard today that an employee was paying $1100/month for a brand new Dodge Ram. Interest is 15%. He is in his early 20s and works in production in manufacturing. Also pays $1200/month rent, and in this area that is a nice apartment. I can't imagine paying that much for a vehicle.
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Heard today that an employee was paying $1100/month for a brand new Dodge Ram. Interest is 15%. He is in his early 20s and works in production in manufacturing. Also pays $1200/month rent, and in this area that is a nice apartment. I can't imagine paying that much for a vehicle.
Damn. $1100 per month for a vehicle.
To put things in perspective, that's more than our monthly mortgage payment, including taxes and insurance, on our old personal home.
That's 4 monthly car payments the last time I had car payments, about 10 years ago.
That's 1 monthly car payment on my last car and enough money, in 4 years, to purchase and renovate our first rental property in full, in cash, plus $3000 spending money.
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Heard today that an employee was paying $1100/month for a brand new Dodge Ram. Interest is 15%. He is in his early 20s and works in production in manufacturing. Also pays $1200/month rent, and in this area that is a nice apartment. I can't imagine paying that much for a vehicle.
When I bought my first car I put like $3,000 or $5,000 down and paid $150/month. I hated paying that. Now that I have owned the car for two years I don't plan to buy another for a long time. Though I occasionally look... and try to see if there is anything out there for $200/month. $1,100 is insanity.
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Holy mother. All that money and he isn’t even getting anything remotely nice for it.
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Heard today that an employee was paying $1100/month for a brand new Dodge Ram. Interest is 15%. He is in his early 20s and works in production in manufacturing. Also pays $1200/month rent, and in this area that is a nice apartment. I can't imagine paying that much for a vehicle.
When I bought my first car I put like $3,000 or $5,000 down and paid $150/month. I hated paying that. Now that I have owned the car for two years I don't plan to buy another for a long time. Though I occasionally look... and try to see if there is anything out there for $200/month. $1,100 is insanity.
Why? Isn’t that lifestyle creep?
Though I must admit, I also sometimes look to see if I can get something nicer...for less than what I am currently paying.
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Heard today that an employee was paying $1100/month for a brand new Dodge Ram. Interest is 15%. He is in his early 20s and works in production in manufacturing. Also pays $1200/month rent, and in this area that is a nice apartment. I can't imagine paying that much for a vehicle.
What type of income does this person make as a production employee?!? I know from experience that it can be quite high for experienced and skilled workers but they are not the norm.
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Though I must admit, I also sometimes look to see if I can get something nicer...for less than what I am currently paying.
Why? Isn’t that lifestyle creep?
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Though I must admit, I also sometimes look to see if I can get something nicer...for less than what I am currently paying.
Why? Isn’t that lifestyle creep?
Mustachian lifestyle creep. :P (is that even a thing?)
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Though I must admit, I also sometimes look to see if I can get something nicer...for less than what I am currently paying.
Why? Isn’t that lifestyle creep?
Mustachian lifestyle creep. :P (is that even a thing?)
Ya, it's when you look at the thermostat and say, "78? huh, feels like 76. Maybe I'll turn it up to 79"
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Though I must admit, I also sometimes look to see if I can get something nicer...for less than what I am currently paying.
Why? Isn’t that lifestyle creep?
Mustachian lifestyle creep. :P (is that even a thing?)
Getting nicer stuff makes it harder to go back to shittier stuff. Even when I DIY a bunch of stuff and spend almost nothing, my lifestyle is increasing. So IMO yeah.
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Though I must admit, I also sometimes look to see if I can get something nicer...for less than what I am currently paying.
Why? Isn’t that lifestyle creep?
Mustachian lifestyle creep. :P (is that even a thing?)
Ya, it's when you look at the thermostat and say, "78? huh, feels like 76. Maybe I'll turn it up to 79"
This basically happened to me last night - I got home and went about my stuff as usual. DH gets home a few hours later:
DH: Why didn't you turn the thermostat back down?
Me: What do you mean?
DH: I decided to turn it up before I left this morning, so it wasn't running when we're not here.
Me: Oh, I hadn't noticed.
DH: *turns temp back down to 80 from 85*
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Was at a work do last night and the conversation turned to after purchase payment schemes - the ones where you get your low cost goods up front and pay a small amount weekly or whatever until it's paid off? I don't quite know how it works since I'd never heard of them! Anyway, not only were the others astonished that I'd never heard of the whole idea of buying a $20 dollar item and paying it off in four easy payments of $5, they were astonished that I'd never needed this sort of plan. I was asked what I did if I wanted something and didn't have the money - BY THE MANAGER AND OPS MANAGER! I was trying to avoid saying that I can afford anything I want for cash, so I said I'd just put it on credit card. But what if you have no balance on your credit card?? Um.... that's never happened and if it did I wouldn't be buying said item. They looked at me like I'd started speaking ancient arabic, and changed the subject.
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Was at a work do last night and the conversation turned to after purchase payment schemes - the ones where you get your low cost goods up front and pay a small amount weekly or whatever until it's paid off? I don't quite know how it works since I'd never heard of them! Anyway, not only were the others astonished that I'd never heard of the whole idea of buying a $20 dollar item and paying it off in four easy payments of $5, they were astonished that I'd never needed this sort of plan. I was asked what I did if I wanted something and didn't have the money - BY THE MANAGER AND OPS MANAGER! I was trying to avoid saying that I can afford anything I want for cash, so I said I'd just put it on credit card. But what if you have no balance on your credit card?? Um.... that's never happened and if it did I wouldn't be buying said item. They looked at me like I'd started speaking ancient arabic, and changed the subject.
This would be funny if it wasn't so sad. No one can fathom having enough money to buy what you want/need (or fathom NOT buying something you can't afford)!
Years ago, I needed to buy a new refrigerator and one of my coworkers mentioned that I could use store financing. I just thanked her but in my mind it was "I'm going to put it on my credit card and then write a check to pay it off when the bill comes". [For you young whipper-snappers, this was back when people paid credit cards with checks.]
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Was at a work do last night and the conversation turned to after purchase payment schemes - the ones where you get your low cost goods up front and pay a small amount weekly or whatever until it's paid off? I don't quite know how it works since I'd never heard of them! Anyway, not only were the others astonished that I'd never heard of the whole idea of buying a $20 dollar item and paying it off in four easy payments of $5, they were astonished that I'd never needed this sort of plan. I was asked what I did if I wanted something and didn't have the money - BY THE MANAGER AND OPS MANAGER! I was trying to avoid saying that I can afford anything I want for cash, so I said I'd just put it on credit card. But what if you have no balance on your credit card?? Um.... that's never happened and if it did I wouldn't be buying said item. They looked at me like I'd started speaking ancient arabic, and changed the subject.
This would be funny if it wasn't so sad. No one can fathom having enough money to buy what you want/need (or fathom NOT buying something you can't afford)!
Years ago, I needed to buy a new refrigerator and one of my coworkers mentioned that I could use store financing. I just thanked her but in my mind it was "I'm going to put it on my credit card and then write a check to pay it off when the bill comes". [For you young whipper-snappers, this was back when people paid credit cards with checks.]
It was so weird. I have about $14000 in credit card balance I could use if I wanted to. And I have cash, so I don't need to do that...... And, ffs, what can you possibly want that only costs a few bucks that you HAVE to have right then???
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A guy at work was invited to an 80s-themed party.
He and his girlfriend spent more than $400 on their outfits: acid-washed jeans and a denim jacket for him, an ugly leopard-print dress for her.
Pretty sure I could find similar outfits at my local op shop for $7.
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Was at a work do last night and the conversation turned to after purchase payment schemes - the ones where you get your low cost goods up front and pay a small amount weekly or whatever until it's paid off? I don't quite know how it works since I'd never heard of them! Anyway, not only were the others astonished that I'd never heard of the whole idea of buying a $20 dollar item and paying it off in four easy payments of $5, they were astonished that I'd never needed this sort of plan. I was asked what I did if I wanted something and didn't have the money - BY THE MANAGER AND OPS MANAGER! I was trying to avoid saying that I can afford anything I want for cash, so I said I'd just put it on credit card. But what if you have no balance on your credit card?? Um.... that's never happened and if it did I wouldn't be buying said item. They looked at me like I'd started speaking ancient arabic, and changed the subject.
This would be funny if it wasn't so sad. No one can fathom having enough money to buy what you want/need (or fathom NOT buying something you can't afford)!
Years ago, I needed to buy a new refrigerator and one of my coworkers mentioned that I could use store financing. I just thanked her but in my mind it was "I'm going to put it on my credit card and then write a check to pay it off when the bill comes". [For you young whipper-snappers, this was back when people paid credit cards with checks.]
I was telling someone about a rewards credit card, and he asked what the interest rate was. It took a several extra seconds for my brain to process his question. I don't know what the interest rate is. I haven't paid CC interest in 20 years.
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Was at a work do last night and the conversation turned to after purchase payment schemes - the ones where you get your low cost goods up front and pay a small amount weekly or whatever until it's paid off? I don't quite know how it works since I'd never heard of them! Anyway, not only were the others astonished that I'd never heard of the whole idea of buying a $20 dollar item and paying it off in four easy payments of $5, they were astonished that I'd never needed this sort of plan. I was asked what I did if I wanted something and didn't have the money - BY THE MANAGER AND OPS MANAGER! I was trying to avoid saying that I can afford anything I want for cash, so I said I'd just put it on credit card. But what if you have no balance on your credit card?? Um.... that's never happened and if it did I wouldn't be buying said item. They looked at me like I'd started speaking ancient arabic, and changed the subject.
This would be funny if it wasn't so sad. No one can fathom having enough money to buy what you want/need (or fathom NOT buying something you can't afford)!
Years ago, I needed to buy a new refrigerator and one of my coworkers mentioned that I could use store financing. I just thanked her but in my mind it was "I'm going to put it on my credit card and then write a check to pay it off when the bill comes". [For you young whipper-snappers, this was back when people paid credit cards with checks.]
I was telling someone about a rewards credit card, and he asked what the interest rate was. It took a several extra seconds for my brain to process his question. I don't know what the interest rate is. I haven't paid CC interest in 20 years.
Ha — I realized from reading your post that I’ve never chosen a card based on interest rate. Because I’ve never held a cc balance. It’s irrelevant to me.
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Was at a work do last night and the conversation turned to after purchase payment schemes - the ones where you get your low cost goods up front and pay a small amount weekly or whatever until it's paid off? I don't quite know how it works since I'd never heard of them! Anyway, not only were the others astonished that I'd never heard of the whole idea of buying a $20 dollar item and paying it off in four easy payments of $5, they were astonished that I'd never needed this sort of plan. I was asked what I did if I wanted something and didn't have the money - BY THE MANAGER AND OPS MANAGER! I was trying to avoid saying that I can afford anything I want for cash, so I said I'd just put it on credit card. But what if you have no balance on your credit card?? Um.... that's never happened and if it did I wouldn't be buying said item. They looked at me like I'd started speaking ancient arabic, and changed the subject.
This would be funny if it wasn't so sad. No one can fathom having enough money to buy what you want/need (or fathom NOT buying something you can't afford)!
Years ago, I needed to buy a new refrigerator and one of my coworkers mentioned that I could use store financing. I just thanked her but in my mind it was "I'm going to put it on my credit card and then write a check to pay it off when the bill comes". [For you young whipper-snappers, this was back when people paid credit cards with checks.]
I was telling someone about a rewards credit card, and he asked what the interest rate was. It took a several extra seconds for my brain to process his question. I don't know what the interest rate is. I haven't paid CC interest in 20 years.
Ha — I realized from reading your post that I’ve never chosen a card based on interest rate. Because I’ve never held a cc balance. It’s irrelevant to me.
This prompted me to look up the interest percentage of my credit card that I've had since 2008 (it's 14%). I have never held a balance either and with that interest % I certainly never will.
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My "Credit Card" (OMG I have only one!!!) does not even have a % because while you can use it like any MasterCard, the money still gets deducted from the bank account 3 days later.
One of the first things I did at my bank was applying for Dispo (overdraft). Got a nicely low (for those things) 6% for 950€. Never used it and very likely never will, but it is good to have the reserve in case of cases.
Not able to buy a $20 thing? I can't even imagine how you can live that way. (Or with high interest credit on the card for that matter.) It really is a "hair on fire" emergency, and those people should be in subdued panic!!
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I sell stuff on ebay. Just yesterday I got a request "will you sell this for $5 but I can't pay you until Saturday. Is that ok?"
I almost always, as I did in this case, say yes, because I have never had anyone who asks up front give me a problem.
But I think, really, if you can't pay me $5 for nearly a week, you shouldn't be buying this thing and ought to get your financial house in order.
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I’m a full-time writer (novelist), self-pubbed, and the vast majority of my income is from ebooks.
I write in series, and I will often have the first book in a series as a temporary or permanent 99-cent loss leader to lure people in.
I have had more than a few conversations on social media from people who ask me how long said book will be at 99 cents, because they don’t get paid until X date.
I used to think it was just scammers hoping I’d give them a freebie, but it has happened enough now with readers I actually have a relationship with that I’ve concluded many/most of these people literally don’t have 99 cents to spare.
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I teach at a major University, and always ask my attention to write up their spring break stories.
I taught a class of international language Learners last spring. The program changes double the international rate, they don't get admitted to the university (but can if they do well in learning English and their grades qualify). Basically the program exists for extremely rich kids who are from countries that have difficulties getting long term tourist visas.
The responses were unreal this spring from the class:
I went to Prague. I went to reykjavik. I went to ny to see a show then Beijing to visit my boyfriend.
But my favorite:
I went to Disney world. But it was hot. So I went to Disneyland. It was lame. So I went to euro Disney. The hotel wasn't good. so I came home early.
So this 20 year old flew to Florida, then last minute to LA, then last minute to Paris, then last minute back to Charlotte. I'll assume she bought weekly passes at each park, and probably had insane hotels. I imagine that a person who complains about LA being boring and Orlando in March being hot would only fly first class... I ended up guessing they spent North of 10k on the "failed vacation"
.
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Was at a work do last night and the conversation turned to after purchase payment schemes - the ones where you get your low cost goods up front and pay a small amount weekly or whatever until it's paid off? I don't quite know how it works since I'd never heard of them! Anyway, not only were the others astonished that I'd never heard of the whole idea of buying a $20 dollar item and paying it off in four easy payments of $5, they were astonished that I'd never needed this sort of plan. I was asked what I did if I wanted something and didn't have the money - BY THE MANAGER AND OPS MANAGER! I was trying to avoid saying that I can afford anything I want for cash, so I said I'd just put it on credit card. But what if you have no balance on your credit card?? Um.... that's never happened and if it did I wouldn't be buying said item. They looked at me like I'd started speaking ancient arabic, and changed the subject.
I’m sure this has been posted a lot, but it’s again relevant: https://vimeo.com/199334296
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Maybe she and the baby can get matching tattoos.
How about coordinating?
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/07/d3/53/07d35311e1b6672358056fb96d259059.jpg)
It's like they've got each others' backs!
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As devastated as she was, she never should have gotten a divorce. Everyone is going to make mistakes.
Bringing a prostitute into the marital bed was not a 'mistake'. It was a betrayal.
The husband is responsible for the infidelity (assuming they were monogamous of course) but the wife is the one who chose the disastrous divorce. Plenty of people cheat on each other and stay happily married. Just think how much better off this woman would have been if she had been able to get over those reptile-brain jealous urges.
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As devastated as she was, she never should have gotten a divorce. Everyone is going to make mistakes.
Bringing a prostitute into the marital bed was not a 'mistake'. It was a betrayal.
The husband is responsible for the infidelity (assuming they were monogamous of course) but the wife is the one who chose the disastrous divorce. Plenty of people cheat on each other and stay happily married. Just think how much better off this woman would have been if she had been able to get over those reptile-brain jealous urges.
I would looooove a more detailed definition of 'happily married'. May I never know happiness like THAT.
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As devastated as she was, she never should have gotten a divorce. Everyone is going to make mistakes.
Bringing a prostitute into the marital bed was not a 'mistake'. It was a betrayal.
The husband is responsible for the infidelity (assuming they were monogamous of course) but the wife is the one who chose the disastrous divorce. Plenty of people cheat on each other and stay happily married. Just think how much better off this woman would have been if she had been able to get over those reptile-brain jealous urges.
I would looooove a more detailed definition of 'happily married'. May I never know happiness like THAT.
Some people do get over infidelity and become (not "stay" obviously) happily married. But to claim that's what should always happen is nuts. And to blame the victim in the (immediate) situation is also nuts.
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I would looooove a more detailed definition of 'happily married'. May I never know happiness like THAT.
Some people do get over infidelity and become (not "stay" obviously) happily married. But to claim that's what should always happen is nuts. And to blame the victim in the (immediate) situation is also nuts.
I think Kitsune may be assuming that either the unfaithful spouse remains unfaithful, or is unrepentant. In either of those cases, yeah, it's hard to imagine a happy marriage. If the wayward spouse chooses to return to marital fidelity, then certainly they can become happily married again.
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As devastated as she was, she never should have gotten a divorce. Everyone is going to make mistakes.
Bringing a prostitute into the marital bed was not a 'mistake'. It was a betrayal.
The husband is responsible for the infidelity (assuming they were monogamous of course) but the wife is the one who chose the disastrous divorce. Plenty of people cheat on each other and stay happily married. Just think how much better off this woman would have been if she had been able to get over those reptile-brain jealous urges.
Good lord.
Yeah.
And also the possible STDs that her husband brought into her life.
Because, um... I think it is statistically unlikely that this was the very first time he had ever been with a prostitute.
Nice blaming the wife for being a "lizard brain."
I am thoroughly disgusted. That's enough internet for one day. I've seen the worst thing I'm likely to see today.
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As devastated as she was, she never should have gotten a divorce. Everyone is going to make mistakes.
Bringing a prostitute into the marital bed was not a 'mistake'. It was a betrayal.
The husband is responsible for the infidelity (assuming they were monogamous of course) but the wife is the one who chose the disastrous divorce. Plenty of people cheat on each other and stay happily married. Just think how much better off this woman would have been if she had been able to get over those reptile-brain jealous urges.
Funny how it's always a woman who is supposed to forgive a man for being unfaithful. How often do men forgive a woman who cheats on them? (and before anyone jumps to any conclusions about my gender I'm a guy married to another guy).
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As devastated as she was, she never should have gotten a divorce. Everyone is going to make mistakes.
Bringing a prostitute into the marital bed was not a 'mistake'. It was a betrayal.
The husband is responsible for the infidelity (assuming they were monogamous of course) but the wife is the one who chose the disastrous divorce. Plenty of people cheat on each other and stay happily married. Just think how much better off this woman would have been if she had been able to get over those reptile-brain jealous urges.
Funny how it's always a woman who is supposed to forgive a man for being unfaithful. How often do men forgive a woman who cheats on them? (and before anyone jumps to any conclusions about my gender I'm a guy married to another guy).
I don't think anyone is trying to make this a one-way street, and I think it's a mistake to infer any sexism here. In this particular instance, it was indeed the man who cheated, and the woman who would be in the position of granting forgiveness, so I'm guessing any comments that specify the sex of the offender and the offended are done so in that context.
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It was so weird. I have about $14000 in credit card balance I could use if I wanted to. And I have cash, so I don't need to do that...... And, ffs, what can you possibly want that only costs a few bucks that you HAVE to have right then???
Toothpaste and deodorant on a payment plan... ?!?!?!?!
So basically this is like layaway but the customer gets the thing up front.
I LOVE layaway. Only made use of it a few times in my life. Built-in cooling off period in case buyer's regret sets in or a better deal presents itself.
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As devastated as she was, she never should have gotten a divorce. Everyone is going to make mistakes.
Bringing a prostitute into the marital bed was not a 'mistake'. It was a betrayal.
The husband is responsible for the infidelity (assuming they were monogamous of course) but the wife is the one who chose the disastrous divorce. Plenty of people cheat on each other and stay happily married. Just think how much better off this woman would have been if she had been able to get over those reptile-brain jealous urges.
Good lord.
Yeah.
And also the possible STDs that her husband brought into her life.
Because, um... I think it is statistically unlikely that this was the very first time he had ever been with a prostitute.
Nice blaming the wife for being a "lizard brain."
I am thoroughly disgusted. That's enough internet for one day. I've seen the worst thing I'm likely to see today.
I mean, it's POSSIBLE to work through cheating and find a happy marriage again - but the basis of most happy marriages is a certain level of trust. And to be clear: if my husband came home and was like "um, I did something reeeeeal dumb last night, we gotta talk", honestly, I would't divorce him, because the trust is still there. If we're at the point where he's bringing prostitutes to my bed, what the hell kind of foundation are you supposed to be building on?? How are you supposed to love someone you don't trust? On a very basic level, how on earth are you supposed to touch them without feeling like you need to coat yourself in latex and get STD tests weekly? (Note: not a reflection on my opinion of prostitution, but rather on 'if I don't know where you've been boning and I can't trust you to tell me the truth, I can't trust any STD tests from you, and my health is therefore at risk'. And if I can't trust you to not fuck around, I can't trust you to wrap it up while you're fucking around).
And to be excessively clear: I'd much, much rather live in a small cheap apartment alone or with someone I love and trust than in a big house with someone I can't love or trust. Fuck the monetary costs of divorce. Money is a tool, not an end, and misery for money is the shittiest bargain.
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misery for money is the shittiest bargain.
Cross-stitch this in a sampler and frame it on the wall!
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misery for money is the shittiest bargain.
Cross-stitch this in a sampler and frame it on the wall!
It can go next to my 'if they don't have any books, don't fuck 'em' cross-stitch. #havestandards
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Though I must admit, I also sometimes look to see if I can get something nicer...for less than what I am currently paying.
Why? Isn’t that lifestyle creep?
Mustachian lifestyle creep. :P (is that even a thing?)
Ya, it's when you look at the thermostat and say, "78? huh, feels like 76. Maybe I'll turn it up to 79"
HAHAHAHAHAHA OMG I am dying here laughing!!
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And to be excessively clear: I'd much, much rather live in a small cheap apartment alone or with someone I love and trust than in a big house with someone I can't love or trust. Fuck the monetary costs of divorce. Money is a tool, not an end, and misery for money is the shittiest bargain.
So true. And yet I know a few people sitting in their vast expensive home wishing it was larger so they did not have to accidentally see their spouse at all.
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misery for money is the shittiest bargain.
Cross-stitch this in a sampler and frame it on the wall!
It can go next to my 'if they don't have any books, don't fuck 'em' cross-stitch. #havestandards
Then my wife and I would be irresistible to you! :) #LeaveNoBookBehind
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misery for money is the shittiest bargain.
Cross-stitch this in a sampler and frame it on the wall!
It can go next to my 'if they don't have any books, don't fuck 'em' cross-stitch. #havestandards
Then my wife and I would be irresistible to you! :) #LeaveNoBookBehind
I only read books from the library so nobody will fuck me. #MPP
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misery for money is the shittiest bargain.
Cross-stitch this in a sampler and frame it on the wall!
It can go next to my 'if they don't have any books, don't fuck 'em' cross-stitch. #havestandards
Then my wife and I would be irresistible to you! :) #LeaveNoBookBehind
So marrying a librarian would be a good thing - right?
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misery for money is the shittiest bargain.
Cross-stitch this in a sampler and frame it on the wall!
It can go next to my 'if they don't have any books, don't fuck 'em' cross-stitch. #havestandards
Eek! What about people like me who used to have literal hundreds of books but then gave them all up for a more minimalist lifestyle? Like, the last time I moved house, I hired professional movers, and when they came in, they looked around at my furniture, etc., and said, "Oh, this should be an easy move -- you don't have that much stuff."
Fast forward to many hours later, after they had moved like the twentieth paper ream box of books. By this point, they had long stopped talking to me, and their sullen, fixed expressions told me they were feeling a special kind of hatred for me.
I did tip them well, at least. But I don't think it was enough.
Today, though, if you came to my house, you'd probably be struck by the number of books I don't have.
My Kindle app on my iPad, though... well, that's another story...
ETA: I am not suggesting you should fuck me. Because that's just awkward and rude...
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misery for money is the shittiest bargain.
Cross-stitch this in a sampler and frame it on the wall!
It can go next to my 'if they don't have any books, don't fuck 'em' cross-stitch. #havestandards
Eek! What about people like me who used to have literal hundreds of books but then gave them all up for a more minimalist lifestyle? Like, the last time I moved house, I hired professional movers, and when they came in, they looked around at my furniture, etc., and said, "Oh, this should be an easy move -- you don't have that much stuff."
Fast forward to many hours later, after they had moved like the twentieth paper ream box of books. By this point, they had long stopped talking to me, and their sullen, fixed expressions told me they were feeling a special kind of hatred for me.
I did tip them well, at least. But I don't think it was enough.
Today, though, if you came to my house, you'd probably be struck by the number of books I don't have.
My Kindle app on my iPad, though... well, that's another story...
ETA: I am not suggesting you should fuck me. Because that's just awkward and rude...
I mean, I personally feel at home and cocooned when surrounded by books, and that makes me happy, so while I applaud your desires and commitment to have the lifestyle you prefer, it would probably not be compatible with my personal preferences. How's that for tactful? :)
Now to ruin the tact ENTIRELY:
... unless you started a really interesting conversation about mutually-loved fantasy novels, in which case I'm all ears (for the record: I have never picked up in a bar. I've picked up in the sci-fi section of the bookstore... more than once. I'm consistent in my opinions.)
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misery for money is the shittiest bargain.
Cross-stitch this in a sampler and frame it on the wall!
It can go next to my 'if they don't have any books, don't fuck 'em' cross-stitch. #havestandards
Eek! What about people like me who used to have literal hundreds of books but then gave them all up for a more minimalist lifestyle? Like, the last time I moved house, I hired professional movers, and when they came in, they looked around at my furniture, etc., and said, "Oh, this should be an easy move -- you don't have that much stuff."
Fast forward to many hours later, after they had moved like the twentieth paper ream box of books. By this point, they had long stopped talking to me, and their sullen, fixed expressions told me they were feeling a special kind of hatred for me.
I did tip them well, at least. But I don't think it was enough.
Today, though, if you came to my house, you'd probably be struck by the number of books I don't have.
My Kindle app on my iPad, though... well, that's another story...
ETA: I am not suggesting you should fuck me. Because that's just awkward and rude...
I mean, I personally feel at home and cocooned when surrounded by books, and that makes me happy, so while I applaud your desires and commitment to have the lifestyle you prefer, it would probably not be compatible with my personal preferences. How's that for tactful? :)
You saw he was hitting on you too, was it when he said a "hundreds of books" :-)
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If you want to pick me up, the library is also a good place. If you use the one in my home it's even easier!
btw. the pinnacle of romance:
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/437516-you-should-date-a-girl-who-reads-date-a-girl
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You saw he was hitting on you too, was it when he said a "hundreds of books" :-)
SPLOOSH
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Though I must admit, I also sometimes look to see if I can get something nicer...for less than what I am currently paying.
Why? Isn’t that lifestyle creep?
Mustachian lifestyle creep. :P (is that even a thing?)
Getting nicer stuff makes it harder to go back to shittier stuff. Even when I DIY a bunch of stuff and spend almost nothing, my lifestyle is increasing. So IMO yeah.
Obtaining one disproportionately nice thing causing you to feel compelled to upgrade other things around it has been called Diderot effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diderot_effect
I'm surprised that MMM never wrote a post about that, because it's a way that an otherwise sustainable lifestyle can be thrown into a spiral of consumption.
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I'm surprised that MMM never wrote a post about that, because it's a way that an otherwise sustainable lifestyle can be thrown into a spiral of consumption.
Oh, honey
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/22/what-is-hedonic-adaptation-and-how-can-it-turn-you-into-a-sukka/
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And to be excessively clear: I'd much, much rather live in a small cheap apartment alone or with someone I love and trust than in a big house with someone I can't love or trust. Fuck the monetary costs of divorce. Money is a tool, not an end, and misery for money is the shittiest bargain.
So true. And yet I know a few people sitting in their vast expensive home wishing it was larger so they did not have to accidentally see their spouse at all.
This whole discussion reminds me of this article that was posted in EPIC FU Money Stories:
https://www.thebillfold.com/2016/01/a-story-of-a-fuck-off-fund/
Not condoning cheating on spouses at all, but you gotta recognize that the woman was in a fragile situation to begin. Fragility comes with risks...
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I sell stuff on ebay. Just yesterday I got a request "will you sell this for $5 but I can't pay you until Saturday. Is that ok?"
I almost always, as I did in this case, say yes, because I have never had anyone who asks up front give me a problem.
But I think, really, if you can't pay me $5 for nearly a week, you shouldn't be buying this thing and ought to get your financial house in order.
This happened to me before with an ebay transaction. Only I kept waiting for the buyer to pay me so I could ship the item. Finally contacted them for payment and she gave me the same line about having to wait a couple days. It's bizarre to me to go shopping for random things online when one doesn't even have $5!
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Eek! What about people like me who used to have literal hundreds of books but then gave them all up for a more minimalist lifestyle? Like, the last time I moved house, I hired professional movers, and when they came in, they looked around at my furniture, etc., and said, "Oh, this should be an easy move -- you don't have that much stuff."
I'm on the same page as Kris. I used to have nine bookcases of books, then downsized. Funnily enough, even when I downsized to a single bookcase, guests would often comment, "Wow, you must read a lot."
For the past few years I've downsized even further -- my Kindle books now greatly outnumber the remaining (< 100) physical books.
My last move, done solo, took me literally less than 2 hours. ;-)
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Eek! What about people like me who used to have literal hundreds of books but then gave them all up for a more minimalist lifestyle? Like, the last time I moved house, I hired professional movers, and when they came in, they looked around at my furniture, etc., and said, "Oh, this should be an easy move -- you don't have that much stuff."
I'm on the same page as Kris. I used to have nine bookcases of books, then downsized. Funnily enough, even when I downsized to a single bookcase, guests would often comment, "Wow, you must read a lot."
For the past few years I've downsized even further -- my Kindle books now greatly outnumber the remaining (< 100) physical books.
My last move, done solo, took me literally less than 2 hours. ;-)
My book problem is that most of the books I still have are old, not on Kindle or massively expensive on Kindle,. and not at the library. So I keep them. I have probably downsized by 1/3, and books are still a major move issue.
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Eek! What about people like me who used to have literal hundreds of books but then gave them all up for a more minimalist lifestyle? Like, the last time I moved house, I hired professional movers, and when they came in, they looked around at my furniture, etc., and said, "Oh, this should be an easy move -- you don't have that much stuff."
I'm on the same page as Kris. I used to have nine bookcases of books, then downsized. Funnily enough, even when I downsized to a single bookcase, guests would often comment, "Wow, you must read a lot."
For the past few years I've downsized even further -- my Kindle books now greatly outnumber the remaining (< 100) physical books.
My last move, done solo, took me literally less than 2 hours. ;-)
I've got 4 bookshelves of books but mostly cookbooks, guidebooks and mementos from childhood. I read about 100 books a year so instead of buying them I take them out of the library and make a generous donation each year.
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We've culled out a lot of our books.
We're down to 35 bookshelves that are overfilled.
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I just went through a huge box of books that's been at my parents' house since I packed it in 1992. I kept three of the books and brought the rest to a local charity. I read one of the three books while I was there, and brought two home. I feel like I got rid of a lot of books, but I actually increased the number of books in our house by two :)
I really will start donating books soon, though. I have at least 5,000 paperbacks, most of which I can get rid of at this point.
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I average 200 books/year and I thank God & technology for library ebooks. If I had to buy them all, I'd be broke. If I had to have them all in paper, I'd need a second house just for storage. But there is something uniquely soul-satisfying about having well-filled bookshelves at hand.
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I sell stuff on ebay. Just yesterday I got a request "will you sell this for $5 but I can't pay you until Saturday. Is that ok?"
I almost always, as I did in this case, say yes, because I have never had anyone who asks up front give me a problem.
But I think, really, if you can't pay me $5 for nearly a week, you shouldn't be buying this thing and ought to get your financial house in order.
This happened to me before with an ebay transaction. Only I kept waiting for the buyer to pay me so I could ship the item. Finally contacted them for payment and she gave me the same line about having to wait a couple days. It's bizarre to me to go shopping for random things online when one doesn't even have $5!
Follow up: she paid me a day early. If she hadn't paid me on time (on Friday) I would have opened an unpaid item without further ado. (which still gives the buyer 4 more days to pay)
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I sell stuff on ebay. Just yesterday I got a request "will you sell this for $5 but I can't pay you until Saturday. Is that ok?"
I almost always, as I did in this case, say yes, because I have never had anyone who asks up front give me a problem.
But I think, really, if you can't pay me $5 for nearly a week, you shouldn't be buying this thing and ought to get your financial house in order.
This happened to me before with an ebay transaction. Only I kept waiting for the buyer to pay me so I could ship the item. Finally contacted them for payment and she gave me the same line about having to wait a couple days. It's bizarre to me to go shopping for random things online when one doesn't even have $5!
Follow up: she paid me a day early. If she hadn't paid me on time (on Friday) I would have opened an unpaid item without further ado. (which still gives the buyer 4 more days to pay)
I guess this system is a throwback to when people would send you a check in the mail (yes that happened). These days I’m surprised there isn’t an option to require immediate authorization/payment to submit your bid/order. Maybe there is... seems ridiculous to wait days before someone enters their credit card number or direct debit online
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We've culled out a lot of our books.
We're down to 35 bookshelves that are overfilled.
Here was my method for gradually culling my books.
First, move half the books into the pile of books to be donated. Then
take the remaining half and repeat until the final pile is of the appropriate
size for your goals. I did this over a period of years as my comfort level
of culling increased. Parting with old friends can be tough.
The advantage with this approach (for me, at least) is that I could move
books back and forth between piles; I didn't get overwhelmed with each
individual decision. Still, it was somewhat time-consuming.
Almost all my new books are electronic, unless I've pre-planned to give
away a hardcopy book after I've read it.
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My most recent book culling occurred when I met with a running group outside the public library (with a book donation table), I emptied out a good to book cases by bringing in a bag a week. As I kept looking at the books each week I did keep finding ones that I could let go.
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We've culled out a lot of our books.
We're down to 35 bookshelves that are overfilled.
That's about the size of our local library.
We have several hundred books too. I'd donate them to the library if I thought they would be there when I was ready to read them again. Our library has book sales of materials that aren't used frequently.
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We've culled out a lot of our books.
We're down to 35 bookshelves that are overfilled.
That's about the size of our local library.
We have several hundred books too. I'd donate them to the library if I thought they would be there when I was ready to read them again. Our library has book sales of materials that aren't used frequently.
It would be much easier to give away books if there was a way too read them again later. I tend to re -read books a lot and many of the ones I own are hard to find.
There's also the issue that many people seem to want to get rid of books, so many actually that very few thrift stores in my town still accept them - or accept them and then sell them as waste paper to be recycled.
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We've culled out a lot of our books.
We're down to 35 bookshelves that are overfilled.
That's about the size of our local library.
We have several hundred books too. I'd donate them to the library if I thought they would be there when I was ready to read them again. Our library has book sales of materials that aren't used frequently.
It would be much easier to give away books if there was a way too read them again later. I tend to re -read books a lot and many of the ones I own are hard to find.
There's also the issue that many people seem to want to get rid of books, so many actually that very few thrift stores in my town still accept them - or accept them and then sell them as waste paper to be recycled.
I'm a rereader. I don't get rid of books that I know I'll be reading again. If you have a problem with my book collection, that's your problem. Not mine.
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We've culled out a lot of our books.
We're down to 35 bookshelves that are overfilled.
That's about the size of our local library.
We have several hundred books too. I'd donate them to the library if I thought they would be there when I was ready to read them again. Our library has book sales of materials that aren't used frequently.
It would be much easier to give away books if there was a way too read them again later. I tend to re -read books a lot and many of the ones I own are hard to find.
There's also the issue that many people seem to want to get rid of books, so many actually that very few thrift stores in my town still accept them - or accept them and then sell them as waste paper to be recycled.
I'm a rereader. I don't get rid of books that I know I'll be reading again. If you have a problem with my book collection, that's your problem. Not mine.
Oh, my, I misspoke.
I said 35 bookshelves.
I meant to say 35 book cases, each composed of many shelves.
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Oh, my, I misspoke.
I said 35 bookshelves.
I meant to say 35 book cases, each composed of many shelves.
I both revere and pity you.
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Oh, my, I misspoke.
I said 35 bookshelves.
I meant to say 35 book cases, each composed of many shelves.
I both revere and pity you.
Some people are book lovers, some are bibliophiles. Me, I'm a book slut.
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Oh, my, I misspoke.
I said 35 bookshelves.
I meant to say 35 book cases, each composed of many shelves.
I both revere and pity you.
Some people are book lovers, some are bibliophiles. Me, I'm a book slut.
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Oh, my, I misspoke.
I said 35 bookshelves.
I meant to say 35 book cases, each composed of many shelves.
I both revere and pity you.
I'm pretty sure my house's foundation would begin to settle if I stored that many books.
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Oh, my, I misspoke.
I said 35 bookshelves.
I meant to say 35 book cases, each composed of many shelves.
I both revere and pity you.
I'm jealous.
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Oh, my, I misspoke.
I said 35 bookshelves.
I meant to say 35 book cases, each composed of many shelves.
I both revere and pity you.
I'm pretty sure my house's foundation would begin to settle if I stored that many books.
The last time my parents moved, the movers put all the boxes of books in one room, and the floor structure did need repair for the sagging.
Apparently it's hereditary...
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Oh, my, I misspoke.
I said 35 bookshelves.
I meant to say 35 book cases, each composed of many shelves.
I both revere and pity you.
I'm pretty sure my house's foundation would begin to settle if I stored that many books.
The last time my parents moved, the movers put all the boxes of books in one room, and the floor structure did need repair for the sagging.
Apparently it's hereditary...
We've hired folks to verify the foundation could handle it in the past. Now we know what to look for and DIY. :)
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I'd love to see your collection. What is your library collection like? History? Novels? Photography? DIY?
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I'd love to see your collection. What is your library collection like? History? Novels? Photography? DIY?
Pretty eclectic.
Novels: SciFi, Fantasy, Historical Fiction.
Reference works: Ancient and Medieval History, World History, Pottery - esp Islamic, Byzantine and Medieval British Isles, Metalworking and Jewelry, Info Tech, Art, Military Science, Wargames, DIY books on most of the above. Most of these simply can't be found at the local library because they are much too specialized. We probably have one of the best libraries on Byzantine and medieval Islamic pottery in the hemisphere. (We used to make a lot of reproduction pottery and I'm hoping that will happen again.) Even copies of the two books my wife wrote, the one book I wrote, the published report to the US Government's Base Realignment and Closure commission I wrote most of (and edited the rest of), and a bunch of journals I edited or was published in. Not a lot of programmers get assigned to write most of an official government report on behalf of one of the military branches so I'm pretty proud of that. (And I've just outed myself to maybe half a dozen people in the nation with that confession.)
And just other interesting stuff, like some books on how to learn to read Latin that are so well written that they work really well with no other teacher despite being written totally in Latin. Think about that for a moment. That's some good writing.
Time to cull another bookshelf or two. I think the ancient Roman sections are likely to get culled down. We're not doing much with that area anymore. Plus the information technology books.
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And just other interesting stuff, like some books on how to learn to read Latin that are so well written that they work really well with no other teacher despite being written totally in Latin. Think about that for a moment. That's some good writing.
What is this book? I'm interested!
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I desperately want to raid the fiction and pottery libraries, omg. *swoon*
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As devastated as she was, she never should have gotten a divorce. Everyone is going to make mistakes.
Bringing a prostitute into the marital bed was not a 'mistake'. It was a betrayal.
It was a betrayal but it was also incredibly stupid because why in the world would anyone lease an depreciating asset? Especially when any intelligent, decent person can have a much better version of the same experience for free? The prostitute was obviously the last straw in their ongoing argument about appropriate spending priorities.
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As devastated as she was, she never should have gotten a divorce. Everyone is going to make mistakes.
Bringing a prostitute into the marital bed was not a 'mistake'. It was a betrayal.
It was a betrayal but it was also incredibly stupid because why in the world would anyone lease an depreciating asset? Especially when any intelligent, decent person can have a much better version of the same experience for free? The prostitute was obviously the last straw in their ongoing argument about appropriate spending priorities.
Wow, I was way off. Makes more sense now.
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As devastated as she was, she never should have gotten a divorce. Everyone is going to make mistakes.
Bringing a prostitute into the marital bed was not a 'mistake'. It was a betrayal.
It was a betrayal but it was also incredibly stupid because why in the world would anyone lease an depreciating asset? Especially when any intelligent, decent person can have a much better version of the same experience for free? The prostitute was obviously the last straw in their ongoing argument about appropriate spending priorities.
Wow, I was way off. Makes more sense now.
It is for the new car smell, obviously
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I work for a company that offers an unpaid 3-month sabbatical option to employees with 5 years of service (benefits being, your job is secure & they continue to cover your health insurance etc. during these 3 months but you just don't get paid your normal salary). I haven't worked there for 5 years yet, but I was having lunch the other day with a (young ~30 year old, single, healthy) colleague who has, and he mentioned that he is eligible for a sabbatical and wants to take one due to burnout, but is hesitating because he "needs to make money/can't afford to take 3 months off". I know for a fact based on his job title/tenure that he makes at least $100K so this was baffling to me.
I mean, granted, we live in a high COL area (LA) but if you knew this was something you wanted to do and could plan in advance, it would be super easy to do cheaply.. so what the heck is this guy doing with his six figure salary the rest of the time??
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I have a friend like that who started his career at the same time I did, with the same job title and level. Our careers have diverged a bit but I have mostly had a good idea of what he makes due to similarities. He has pretty much always spent everything from what I can gather. Granted now he has a wife who stays at home with their kids while we remained a two income household, but he said before that they don’t have savings for a down payment if/when they grow out of their current place and aren’t doing anything about saving up one. Their plan is to inherit her parents’ house nearby as she is an only child. That is reasonable to expect, though the timeline is naturally uncertain. Meanwhile we should be reaching our number next year, market gods be willing.
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I desperately want to raid the fiction and pottery libraries, omg. *swoon*
I think we need to start a separate thread where we can all show off and discuss our private libraries.
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I desperately want to raid the fiction and pottery libraries, omg. *swoon*
I think we need to start a separate thread where we can all show off and discuss our private libraries.
post the link here, so all of us book braggarts can join in.
(Smallish library, offset by geek factor)
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As devastated as she was, she never should have gotten a divorce. Everyone is going to make mistakes.
Bringing a prostitute into the marital bed was not a 'mistake'. It was a betrayal.
It was a betrayal but it was also incredibly stupid because why in the world would anyone lease an depreciating asset? Especially when any intelligent, decent person can have a much better version of the same experience for free? The prostitute was obviously the last straw in their ongoing argument about appropriate spending priorities.
Wow, I was way off. Makes more sense now.
It is for the new car smell, obviously
That car was probably well used.
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New-to-him though
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As devastated as she was, she never should have gotten a divorce. Everyone is going to make mistakes.
Bringing a prostitute into the marital bed was not a 'mistake'. It was a betrayal.
It was a betrayal but it was also incredibly stupid because why in the world would anyone lease an depreciating asset? Especially when any intelligent, decent person can have a much better version of the same experience for free? The prostitute was obviously the last straw in their ongoing argument about appropriate spending priorities.
We need a hooker vs. dating finance calculator (like rent vs. own)
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And just other interesting stuff, like some books on how to learn to read Latin that are so well written that they work really well with no other teacher despite being written totally in Latin. Think about that for a moment. That's some good writing.
What is this book? I'm interested!
Don't know if this is the exact one that SwordGuy has, but I have a friend who has used this one and swears by it. https://www.amazon.com/Lingua-Latina-Illustrata-Pars-Familia/dp/1585104205/ref=pd_cp_14_1?pd_rd_w=2HbBQ&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=WSHADN71G4J9TN0Z698E&pd_rd_r=39b831b0-acd9-449b-853b-1ee3e76e3fb4&pd_rd_wg=t9AaS&pd_rd_i=1585104205&psc=1&refRID=WSHADN71G4J9TN0Z698E (https://www.amazon.com/Lingua-Latina-Illustrata-Pars-Familia/dp/1585104205/ref=pd_cp_14_1?pd_rd_w=2HbBQ&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=WSHADN71G4J9TN0Z698E&pd_rd_r=39b831b0-acd9-449b-853b-1ee3e76e3fb4&pd_rd_wg=t9AaS&pd_rd_i=1585104205&psc=1&refRID=WSHADN71G4J9TN0Z698E)
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I desperately want to raid the fiction and pottery libraries, omg. *swoon*
I think we need to start a separate thread where we can all show off and discuss our private libraries.
post the link here, so all of us book braggarts can join in.
(Smallish library, offset by geek factor)
Done--the "Show off your library" thread is now live! (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/personal-libraries-photos-bragging-coveting-etc-encouraged!/)
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Three of my coworkers were just chatting in the kitchenette near where I am sitting and I just heard one of them say his parents pay for most of his rent. They were talking about buying houses and he said he and his girlfriend absolutely love their apartment and can't imagine moving out of it to buy something. Ok, that isn't bad on it's own. Then he said he had been paying over half of his salary toward rent so now his parents pay $1700 per month and he pays $1000. Denver is becoming a higher cost of living place, but he obviously lives in an EXTREMELY high-end apartment, likely right in downtown. I just built a brand-new townhouse and my mortgage payment is less than $2700 per month.
This man is in his early thirties and he is a GS-12 and his parents are paying the majority of his rent each month, when there are plenty of apartments within his means. That is just insane.
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Three of my coworkers were just chatting in the kitchenette near where I am sitting and I just heard one of them say his parents pay for most of his rent. They were talking about buying houses and he said he and his girlfriend absolutely love their apartment and can't imagine moving out of it to buy something. Ok, that isn't bad on it's own. Then he said he had been paying over half of his salary toward rent so now his parents pay $1700 per month and he pays $1000. Denver is becoming a higher cost of living place, but he obviously lives in an EXTREMELY high-end apartment, likely right in downtown. I just built a brand-new townhouse and my mortgage payment is less than $2700 per month.
This man is in his early thirties and he is a GS-12 and his parents are paying the majority of his rent each month, when there are plenty of apartments within his means. That is just insane.
...I'm sorry...what????????
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Three of my coworkers were just chatting in the kitchenette near where I am sitting and I just heard one of them say his parents pay for most of his rent. They were talking about buying houses and he said he and his girlfriend absolutely love their apartment and can't imagine moving out of it to buy something. Ok, that isn't bad on it's own. Then he said he had been paying over half of his salary toward rent so now his parents pay $1700 per month and he pays $1000. Denver is becoming a higher cost of living place, but he obviously lives in an EXTREMELY high-end apartment, likely right in downtown. I just built a brand-new townhouse and my mortgage payment is less than $2700 per month.
This man is in his early thirties and he is a GS-12 and his parents are paying the majority of his rent each month, when there are plenty of apartments within his means. That is just insane.
Umm ... I know a lot of people like this. Parents pay summer camp, parents pay daycare, parents pay vacations, parents paid for college, parents paid for grad school, parents paid for wedding, honeymoon, downpayment, house, car. Parents paying daily living expenses is more unusual but definitely something I've seen. This is extremely common in my community, people want their kids to have the best of everything and usually the parents can afford it. Not my situation and it can make a normal person making a respectable salary feel crazy poor.
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Here's the most interesting thing I recently overheard at work, although I'm not sure it belongs on the wall of shame.
ME: How are things going? It's kind of stressful right now with this new product, right?
COWORKER: Yep. Things are hard and between this [our job] and my blog I basically work all the time.
ME: Maybe you should, like, sell the blog to someone. Is that possible?
COWORKER: Well, the blog brings in about 40K a year ...
ME: What?! Sh*t, I had NO idea the blog was so successful!
ME: That's amazing, good for you. What are you doing with the money? Are you guys saving for a house or something or maybe you plan to retire early?
COWORKER: Actually, most of it goes to my parents. My dad is crazy irresponsible with money and my mom just lost her job.
ME: What?! Sh*t, I had no idea. I'm sorry.
You literally have no idea what is happening with other people's financial lives unless they tell you.
I had assumed, based on background, appearance and other superficial or stereotypical things that this person came from an upper middle class family and had gotten an easy start in life and that they have been building on that this entire time. Why don't we talk honestly about money more often?!
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I had assumed, based on background, appearance and other superficial or stereotypical things that this person came from an upper middle class family and had gotten an easy start in life and that they have been building on that this entire time. Why don't we talk honestly about money more often?!
I had the opposite experience this week with an admittedly spendy colleague who always complains about how he will never be able to buy a house.
Migrant family, parents on the pension, and I figured money had always been tight.
Nope, his parents won more than $1 million in a lottery about 15 years ago, and spent and gambled the lot.
This explains the note of resentment he has when he talks about his parents and money. I would be seething.
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Three of my coworkers were just chatting in the kitchenette near where I am sitting and I just heard one of them say his parents pay for most of his rent. They were talking about buying houses and he said he and his girlfriend absolutely love their apartment and can't imagine moving out of it to buy something. Ok, that isn't bad on it's own. Then he said he had been paying over half of his salary toward rent so now his parents pay $1700 per month and he pays $1000. Denver is becoming a higher cost of living place, but he obviously lives in an EXTREMELY high-end apartment, likely right in downtown. I just built a brand-new townhouse and my mortgage payment is less than $2700 per month.
This man is in his early thirties and he is a GS-12 and his parents are paying the majority of his rent each month, when there are plenty of apartments within his means. That is just insane.
Umm ... I know a lot of people like this. Parents pay summer camp, parents pay daycare, parents pay vacations, parents paid for college, parents paid for grad school, parents paid for wedding, honeymoon, downpayment, house, car. Parents paying daily living expenses is more unusual but definitely something I've seen. This is extremely common in my community, people want their kids to have the best of everything and usually the parents can afford it. Not my situation and it can make a normal person making a respectable salary feel crazy poor.
I've seen this as well and cannot figure out the end-game for the parents. What do they expect to happen once they are no longer around?
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Three of my coworkers were just chatting in the kitchenette near where I am sitting and I just heard one of them say his parents pay for most of his rent. They were talking about buying houses and he said he and his girlfriend absolutely love their apartment and can't imagine moving out of it to buy something. Ok, that isn't bad on it's own. Then he said he had been paying over half of his salary toward rent so now his parents pay $1700 per month and he pays $1000. Denver is becoming a higher cost of living place, but he obviously lives in an EXTREMELY high-end apartment, likely right in downtown. I just built a brand-new townhouse and my mortgage payment is less than $2700 per month.
This man is in his early thirties and he is a GS-12 and his parents are paying the majority of his rent each month, when there are plenty of apartments within his means. That is just insane.
Umm ... I know a lot of people like this. Parents pay summer camp, parents pay daycare, parents pay vacations, parents paid for college, parents paid for grad school, parents paid for wedding, honeymoon, downpayment, house, car. Parents paying daily living expenses is more unusual but definitely something I've seen. This is extremely common in my community, people want their kids to have the best of everything and usually the parents can afford it. Not my situation and it can make a normal person making a respectable salary feel crazy poor.
I've seen this as well and cannot figure out the end-game for the parents. What do they expect to happen once they are no longer around?
That's a really good question. But you know, I know/see a lot of parents who parent by buying/giving their kids things/experiences, etc., with basically no end-game in mind at all. They seem to focus on providing for the kids' immediate wants, with no thought at all to whether their actions will help or hinder their children ever becoming adults who can stand on their own two feet and make good decisions. Part of it might just be exhaustion (like, sticking them in front of a screen all the time and feeding them with fast food because it takes more time to give them healthy activities and food). I don't know. But it's depressing as hell to watch people with their kids and feel pretty sure they're not teaching them any good life lessons.
A lot of those kids probably grow up to be the adults who are still taking handouts from their parents into their 30s, 40s, and beyond.
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Three of my coworkers were just chatting in the kitchenette near where I am sitting and I just heard one of them say his parents pay for most of his rent. They were talking about buying houses and he said he and his girlfriend absolutely love their apartment and can't imagine moving out of it to buy something. Ok, that isn't bad on it's own. Then he said he had been paying over half of his salary toward rent so now his parents pay $1700 per month and he pays $1000. Denver is becoming a higher cost of living place, but he obviously lives in an EXTREMELY high-end apartment, likely right in downtown. I just built a brand-new townhouse and my mortgage payment is less than $2700 per month.
This man is in his early thirties and he is a GS-12 and his parents are paying the majority of his rent each month, when there are plenty of apartments within his means. That is just insane.
Umm ... I know a lot of people like this. Parents pay summer camp, parents pay daycare, parents pay vacations, parents paid for college, parents paid for grad school, parents paid for wedding, honeymoon, downpayment, house, car. Parents paying daily living expenses is more unusual but definitely something I've seen. This is extremely common in my community, people want their kids to have the best of everything and usually the parents can afford it. Not my situation and it can make a normal person making a respectable salary feel crazy poor.
I've seen this as well and cannot figure out the end-game for the parents. What do they expect to happen once they are no longer around?
That's a really good question. But you know, I know/see a lot of parents who parent by buying/giving their kids things/experiences, etc., with basically no end-game in mind at all. They seem to focus on providing for the kids' immediate wants, with no thought at all to whether their actions will help or hinder their children ever becoming adults who can stand on their own two feet and make good decisions. Part of it might just be exhaustion (like, sticking them in front of a screen all the time and feeding them with fast food because it takes more time to give them healthy activities and food). I don't know. But it's depressing as hell to watch people with their kids and feel pretty sure they're not teaching them any good life lessons.
A lot of those kids probably grow up to be the adults who are still taking handouts from their parents into their 30s, 40s, and beyond.
I've listened to parents like this talk among themselves. It's all "happiness, happiness, happiness". They view their job as a parent to give their kids what they want so they will be happy.
I tell them I view my job as a parent is to raise someone so they are a worthwhile adult who is kind, thoughtful, knowledgeable, considerate, and able to take care of themselves and their spouse and children.
Those other parents do not do not DO NOT want to hear that.
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Three of my coworkers were just chatting in the kitchenette near where I am sitting and I just heard one of them say his parents pay for most of his rent. They were talking about buying houses and he said he and his girlfriend absolutely love their apartment and can't imagine moving out of it to buy something. Ok, that isn't bad on it's own. Then he said he had been paying over half of his salary toward rent so now his parents pay $1700 per month and he pays $1000. Denver is becoming a higher cost of living place, but he obviously lives in an EXTREMELY high-end apartment, likely right in downtown. I just built a brand-new townhouse and my mortgage payment is less than $2700 per month.
This man is in his early thirties and he is a GS-12 and his parents are paying the majority of his rent each month, when there are plenty of apartments within his means. That is just insane.
Umm ... I know a lot of people like this. Parents pay summer camp, parents pay daycare, parents pay vacations, parents paid for college, parents paid for grad school, parents paid for wedding, honeymoon, downpayment, house, car. Parents paying daily living expenses is more unusual but definitely something I've seen. This is extremely common in my community, people want their kids to have the best of everything and usually the parents can afford it. Not my situation and it can make a normal person making a respectable salary feel crazy poor.
I've seen this as well and cannot figure out the end-game for the parents. What do they expect to happen once they are no longer around?
That's a really good question. But you know, I know/see a lot of parents who parent by buying/giving their kids things/experiences, etc., with basically no end-game in mind at all. They seem to focus on providing for the kids' immediate wants, with no thought at all to whether their actions will help or hinder their children ever becoming adults who can stand on their own two feet and make good decisions. Part of it might just be exhaustion (like, sticking them in front of a screen all the time and feeding them with fast food because it takes more time to give them healthy activities and food). I don't know. But it's depressing as hell to watch people with their kids and feel pretty sure they're not teaching them any good life lessons.
A lot of those kids probably grow up to be the adults who are still taking handouts from their parents into their 30s, 40s, and beyond.
I've listened to parents like this talk among themselves. It's all "happiness, happiness, happiness". They view their job as a parent to give their kids what they want so they will be happy.
I tell them I view my job as a parent is to raise someone so they are a worthwhile adult who is kind, thoughtful, knowledgeable, considerate, and able to take care of themselves and their spouse and children.
Those other parents do not do not DO NOT want to hear that.
My husband can be like that if he's not kept in check. My son told him last night that "it turns out buying [Ninja Turtle Toy] didn't make him happy after all." I feel bad because my kiddo's having a not great summer (being picked on at daycare), but also proud as hell that he's realizing that stuff <> happiness.
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I've listened to parents like this talk among themselves. It's all "happiness, happiness, happiness". They view their job as a parent to give their kids what they want so they will be happy.
I tell them I view my job as a parent is to raise someone so they are a worthwhile adult who is kind, thoughtful, knowledgeable, considerate, and able to take care of themselves and their spouse and children.
Those other parents do not do not DO NOT want to hear that.
I flat-out tell my kids that my job is to make them into "good grown-ups". "Why do I have to do chores, help with dishes, hang laundry, apologize to my brother?" "Because learning how to do those things now will mean that you know how to do them when you're a grown-up, and they're all part of being a good grown-up."
I also like to tell them stories about college friends whose parents never made them do anything, so when they moved out they didn't know how to do anything. They seem to especially enjoy the story of the guy who didn't know how to do laundry so when he and his gf broke up, he slept on a bare mattress topped with a pile of clothes for MONTHS.
@Sugaree Same with my husband. "Oh, I bought them that with my allowance". WE ALL HAVE OUR OWN ALLOWANCES. THE POINT OF PAYING THE KIDS ALLOWANCE IS SO THAT THEY MANAGE THEIR WANTS RATHER THAN GETTING US TO PAY FOR STUFF.
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CW1 “me and my wife both have health savings account plans”
CW2 “oh so you have to put your own money in there?”
CW1 “yeah but we don’t put anything in there”
Note that CW1 is wearing ray bans and drinking a Starbucks Ice coffee at this time
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Not overheard at work but all of the comments about having a lot of books reminded me of a funny story.
About eight years ago, friends of ours opened their home as part of an annual neighborhood house tour and they asked me and DH to help in the house as guides, to answer questions, etc. I was stationed in the second floor hall. When one woman came up the steps, I pointed out the bedrooms and the bathroom with original clawfoot tub and subway tile. One of the bedrooms had been turned into an office/library and the walls were lined with full bookshelves. There was also a filled bookcase in the bathroom. She took one look in that bedroom and the bathroom, visibly shuddered, and announced loudly that “there are too many books in this house -- and they’re even in the bathroom!!” I politely said, “Ma’am, there is no such thing as too many books.” She then informed me that she only owned one book. I asked her what it was (expecting it to be a bible), and she told me that she reads a book, gets rid of it, and replaces it with one more book. I just shook my head because I couldn’t comprehend that.
And then she informed me that she also hated the subway tile in the bathroom. It was too funny.
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Not overheard at work but all of the comments about having a lot of books reminded me of a funny story.
About eight years ago, friends of ours opened their home as part of an annual neighborhood house tour and they asked me and DH to help in the house as guides, to answer questions, etc. I was stationed in the second floor hall. When one woman came up the steps, I pointed out the bedrooms and the bathroom with original clawfoot tub and subway tile. One of the bedrooms had been turned into an office/library and the walls were lined with full bookshelves. There was also a filled bookcase in the bathroom. She took one look in that bedroom and the bathroom, visibly shuddered, and announced loudly that “there are too many books in this house -- and they’re even in the bathroom!!” I politely said, “Ma’am, there is no such thing as too many books.” She then informed me that she only owned one book. I asked her what it was (expecting it to be a bible), and she told me that she reads a book, gets rid of it, and replaces it with one more book. I just shook my head because I couldn’t comprehend that.
And then she informed me that she also hated the subway tile in the bathroom. It was too funny.
“IF I WANTED TO BE SURROUNDED BY BOOKS ALL DAY I WOULD HAVE TAKEN THAT JOB AT THE AMAZON WAREHOUSE!”
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This man is in his early thirties and he is a GS-12 and his parents are paying the majority of his rent each month, when there are plenty of apartments within his means. That is just insane.
Whaaatttt? I'm GS-12 and we just put my husband through school with an infant in daycare and a mortgage for that salary.
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This man is in his early thirties and he is a GS-12 and his parents are paying the majority of his rent each month, when there are plenty of apartments within his means. That is just insane.
Whaaatttt? I'm GS-12 and we just put my husband through school with an infant in daycare and a mortgage for that salary.
Exactly. The cost of living adjustment doesn’t quite make up for the difference in the cost of living here but it is still insane. I’m a 13 now but for most of the time when I was a 12 my husband (who is blind) didn’t work and I paid our mortgage and all of our living expenses (albeit on a house that had a 3-4 hour commute to be affordable). Now that we live close to where I work even as a 13 we can’t afford daycare and for him to stay home so he is going to be a stay at home dad.
But to be a GS-12 and not be able to afford your own rent?! I paid 100% of my own rent when I made minimum wage, when I started as a GS-7, etc. I find it despicable.
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I've listened to parents like this talk among themselves. It's all "happiness, happiness, happiness". They view their job as a parent to give their kids what they want so they will be happy.
I tell them I view my job as a parent is to raise someone so they are a worthwhile adult who is kind, thoughtful, knowledgeable, considerate, and able to take care of themselves and their spouse and children.
Those other parents do not do not DO NOT want to hear that.
I flat-out tell my kids that my job is to make them into "good grown-ups". "Why do I have to do chores, help with dishes, hang laundry, apologize to my brother?" "Because learning how to do those things now will mean that you know how to do them when you're a grown-up, and they're all part of being a good grown-up."
I also like to tell them stories about college friends whose parents never made them do anything, so when they moved out they didn't know how to do anything. They seem to especially enjoy the story of the guy who didn't know how to do laundry so when he and his gf broke up, he slept on a bare mattress topped with a pile of clothes for MONTHS.
@Sugaree Same with my husband. "Oh, I bought them that with my allowance". WE ALL HAVE OUR OWN ALLOWANCES. THE POINT OF PAYING THE KIDS ALLOWANCE IS SO THAT THEY MANAGE THEIR WANTS RATHER THAN GETTING US TO PAY FOR STUFF.
Absolutely! We tell our kids it is our job to raise responsible adults. And they can't learn everything they need to know 2 weeks before moving out so they better start now. For some reason the 9 year old is convinced that having to help make HIS OWN SANDWICH is a terrible punishment and no kid anywhere else ever has to do this.
I overhear a lot of conversation regarding kids at work and try to add those useful ideas into our home.
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I've listened to parents like this talk among themselves. It's all "happiness, happiness, happiness". They view their job as a parent to give their kids what they want so they will be happy.
I tell them I view my job as a parent is to raise someone so they are a worthwhile adult who is kind, thoughtful, knowledgeable, considerate, and able to take care of themselves and their spouse and children.
Those other parents do not do not DO NOT want to hear that.
I flat-out tell my kids that my job is to make them into "good grown-ups". "Why do I have to do chores, help with dishes, hang laundry, apologize to my brother?" "Because learning how to do those things now will mean that you know how to do them when you're a grown-up, and they're all part of being a good grown-up."
I also like to tell them stories about college friends whose parents never made them do anything, so when they moved out they didn't know how to do anything. They seem to especially enjoy the story of the guy who didn't know how to do laundry so when he and his gf broke up, he slept on a bare mattress topped with a pile of clothes for MONTHS.
@Sugaree Same with my husband. "Oh, I bought them that with my allowance". WE ALL HAVE OUR OWN ALLOWANCES. THE POINT OF PAYING THE KIDS ALLOWANCE IS SO THAT THEY MANAGE THEIR WANTS RATHER THAN GETTING US TO PAY FOR STUFF.
Absolutely! We tell our kids it is our job to raise responsible adults. And they can't learn everything they need to know 2 weeks before moving out so they better start now. For some reason the 9 year old is convinced that having to help make HIS OWN SANDWICH is a terrible punishment and no kid anywhere else ever has to do this.
I overhear a lot of conversation regarding kids at work and try to add those useful ideas into our home.
Kids with skills are far superior and more mature than kids who don't have them, and they're much nicer to be around. Making a sandwich for yourself is the first step to making a plate of sandwiches to serve the family for lunch, or making breakfast in bed for Mom or Dad on a special day, and a kid who does that just plain lives better than other kids who don't know how to kiss up. Besides (and they will learn this later in life) people with lots of skills have the highest status. They get invited more places and frequently throw the best parties. Sometimes they are just spontaneously offered jobs.
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Was talking with a coworker yesterday about weight loss, and she mentioned that another mutual coworker had recently bought into the latest fad diet system (you know the kind, they have their own bars, shakes, plans, etc.) and plopped down $300 for a week's worth of snacks/food. His reasoning is the only way he can stick with a diet is if it hurts his wallet... which would be great except for the fact that it hasn't worked for him yet! He's tried accountability bets in the past (lose a certain amount or pay into the pot) which didn't work for him either. Not really surprised because he and his wife are the models of consumerism (gigantic house, F350, quads, golf carts, the list goes on).
The coworker I was talking to was also trying to lose weight, and she mentioned once she hit her target she was going to get her eyebrows microbladed. Have you guys heard of this? I had to Google it after she left, but prices range from $200 to $1000 for the initial treatment, and up to $100/mo for touch ups. Just looked at a local shop - $400 for the initial treatment, $50 touch up 6-8 weeks out. AND they offer 0% financing for six months! What a deal!
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Was talking with a coworker yesterday about weight loss, and she mentioned that another mutual coworker had recently bought into the latest fad diet system (you know the kind, they have their own bars, shakes, plans, etc.) and plopped down $300 for a week's worth of snacks/food. His reasoning is the only way he can stick with a diet is if it hurts his wallet... which would be great except for the fact that it hasn't worked for him yet! He's tried accountability bets in the past (lose a certain amount or pay into the pot) which didn't work for him either. Not really surprised because he and his wife are the models of consumerism (gigantic house, F350, quads, golf carts, the list goes on).
The coworker I was talking to was also trying to lose weight, and she mentioned once she hit her target she was going to get her eyebrows microbladed. Have you guys heard of this? I had to Google it after she left, but prices range from $200 to $1000 for the initial treatment, and up to $100/mo for touch ups. Just looked at a local shop - $400 for the initial treatment, $50 touch up 6-8 weeks out. AND they offer 0% financing for six months! What a deal!
Let me see if I got this right. Usually we make fun of consumer suckers because they buy depreciating assets that cost money instead of grow in value.
But this "investment in yourself" requires you to keep paying in order keep that investment from growing!
Damn, if I could just run a stock brokerage on those terms! I would be rolling in dough!
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The coworker I was talking to was also trying to lose weight, and she mentioned once she hit her target she was going to get her eyebrows microbladed. Have you guys heard of this? I had to Google it after she left, but prices range from $200 to $1000 for the initial treatment, and up to $100/mo for touch ups. Just looked at a local shop - $400 for the initial treatment, $50 touch up 6-8 weeks out. AND they offer 0% financing for six months! What a deal!
Yeah, all you have to do is google microblade fails and you will NEVER consider doing that. *shudder* I really don't get people who waste money on stupid vanity stuff.
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My sister and I paid for microblading for my mom when she went through cancer treatment and all her hair fell out. She wasn't bothered as much about going bald, but the loss of her eyebrows really hit her hard. I would happily spend that money again to provide her some comfort during a truly awful time.
That is sweet of you and your sister
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Absolutely! We tell our kids it is our job to raise responsible adults. And they can't learn everything they need to know 2 weeks before moving out so they better start now. For some reason the 9 year old is convinced that having to help make HIS OWN SANDWICH is a terrible punishment and no kid anywhere else ever has to do this.
I overhear a lot of conversation regarding kids at work and try to add those useful ideas into our home.
...Or unloading the dishwasher!!! Heavens!
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My sister and I paid for microblading for my mom when she went through cancer treatment and all her hair fell out. She wasn't bothered as much about going bald, but the loss of her eyebrows really hit her hard. I would happily spend that money again to provide her some comfort during a truly awful time.
That is sweet of you and your sister
Agreed! Definitely different from rewarding yourself for dropping a few pounds, though.
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The coworker I was talking to was also trying to lose weight, and she mentioned once she hit her target she was going to get her eyebrows microbladed. Have you guys heard of this? I had to Google it after she left, but prices range from $200 to $1000 for the initial treatment, and up to $100/mo for touch ups. Just looked at a local shop - $400 for the initial treatment, $50 touch up 6-8 weeks out. AND they offer 0% financing for six months! What a deal!
Yeah, all you have to do is google microblade fails and you will NEVER consider doing that. *shudder* I really don't get people who waste money on stupid vanity stuff.
Ha, I did that! Oh man, that's some pretty horrific shit right there...
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Man.... we have maturity related alopecia of the eyebrows in my family... my mom has had basically none since she was about 50. Always has to "put on her eyebrows" before we ever go anywhere.. haha. Used to tease her about that when I was young.
Growing old is a bitch.
I use a girly type rogaine on mine now that they are falling out too. I desperately would love microblading so I don't have to pay so much to keep my eyebrows on... but as mentioned... too many fails out there on the interwebz and I'm too scared to get it done. So now I pay $75 every month or two for a tiny tube of goo so I have eyebrows.
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I remember my mom has done regular eyebrow tattooing (not microblading) in Asia before, and it turned out pretty well. Didn't cost very much either. Anybody interested and maybe planning travel to an Asian country should look into it. I'd imagine the skill level in places like Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and China might even be better than many places in North America.
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Man.... we have maturity related alopecia of the eyebrows in my family... my mom has had basically none since she was about 50. Always has to "put on her eyebrows" before we ever go anywhere.. haha. Used to tease her about that when I was young.
Growing old is a bitch.
I use a girly type rogaine on mine now that they are falling out too. I desperately would love microblading so I don't have to pay so much to keep my eyebrows on... but as mentioned... too many fails out there on the interwebz and I'm too scared to get it done. So now I pay $75 every month or two for a tiny tube of goo so I have eyebrows.
Yes, it is. We have the same problem in my family. My mom just wears long bangs that hide her (lack of) eyebrows, but I have curlier hair and bangs are a disaster. At 41, I still have enough hair that I can fill in with pencil; it’s my only must-wear cosmetic. I really need to look into the eyebrow goo.
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My office wall is a partition (doesn't go to ceiling). I can hear my neighbor snapping her gum ALL. DAY. LONG.
Today, she's snorting back snot due to a cold, but I get a break.
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My office wall is a partition (doesn't go to ceiling). I can hear my neighbor snapping her gum ALL. DAY. LONG.
Today, she's snorting back snot due to a cold, but I get a break.
I don't know, man, you could just quit.... Sounds better than having to hear that every day.
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Man.... we have maturity related alopecia of the eyebrows in my family... my mom has had basically none since she was about 50. Always has to "put on her eyebrows" before we ever go anywhere.. haha. Used to tease her about that when I was young.
Growing old is a bitch.
I use a girly type rogaine on mine now that they are falling out too. I desperately would love microblading so I don't have to pay so much to keep my eyebrows on... but as mentioned... too many fails out there on the interwebz and I'm too scared to get it done. So now I pay $75 every month or two for a tiny tube of goo so I have eyebrows.
Yes, it is. We have the same problem in my family. My mom just wears long bangs that hide her (lack of) eyebrows, but I have curlier hair and bangs are a disaster. At 41, I still have enough hair that I can fill in with pencil; it’s my only must-wear cosmetic. I really need to look into the eyebrow goo.
Sympathies with ya my eyebrowless sister.
Neubrow. It's magical. It takes about 2 weeks for results to show up, but it's legit. Take befores and afters to convince yourself.
I've been thinking of getting literal Rogaine for men or for beards or something. I bet it's the exact same thing for a quarter of the price.
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Man.... we have maturity related alopecia of the eyebrows in my family... my mom has had basically none since she was about 50. Always has to "put on her eyebrows" before we ever go anywhere.. haha. Used to tease her about that when I was young.
Growing old is a bitch.
I use a girly type rogaine on mine now that they are falling out too. I desperately would love microblading so I don't have to pay so much to keep my eyebrows on... but as mentioned... too many fails out there on the interwebz and I'm too scared to get it done. So now I pay $75 every month or two for a tiny tube of goo so I have eyebrows.
Yes, it is. We have the same problem in my family. My mom just wears long bangs that hide her (lack of) eyebrows, but I have curlier hair and bangs are a disaster. At 41, I still have enough hair that I can fill in with pencil; it’s my only must-wear cosmetic. I really need to look into the eyebrow goo.
I have a friend who seriously over-plucked her brows for years so that now she barely has anything, and it's taking a really long time to grow them back because the follicles are so traumatized. She uses a product like this. Just sharing it in case you haven't seen it.
http://tatbrow.com/buy?fbclid=IwAR0KWMRs8DXu81y0Arztx1UAehthzGRbOqoywipGSqfPg-4z1ncAR5hyh3w
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My office wall is a partition (doesn't go to ceiling). I can hear my neighbor snapping her gum ALL. DAY. LONG.
Today, she's snorting back snot due to a cold, but I get a break.
I don't know, man, you could just quit.... Sounds better than having to hear that every day.
There is also sweet death. Let's not rule that out.
The other day she left her cell phone on her desk and the ringtone was full blast. It initially sounded like a gospel tune, but then went another way with the lyrics "fuck ya niggas and all ya bitches."
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Wait they make rogain for beards? And it works? Cause my knuckles aren’t as hairy as I’d like them to be and I’m tired of microblading them
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Absolutely! We tell our kids it is our job to raise responsible adults. And they can't learn everything they need to know 2 weeks before moving out so they better start now. For some reason the 9 year old is convinced that having to help make HIS OWN SANDWICH is a terrible punishment and no kid anywhere else ever has to do this.
I overhear a lot of conversation regarding kids at work and try to add those useful ideas into our home.
...Or unloading the dishwasher!!! Heavens!
I made my kid start taking his laundry to the laundromat when he was 12. I did the laundry at the laundromat and gave it to him to put away and it just ended up on the floor for me to wash the following week. Fast forward 25 years - he now does the laundry for himself, his wife, his daughter, his MIL and GrandMIL because he thinks he does it best.
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Context: I work in a medium-pay frontline service job in a HCOL city.
I have a colleague in his mid-30s who frequently complains of the cost of living in Sydney and how impossible it is to buy a house. Recently he was buoyed by the news of a government scheme to allow first home buyers to get a mortgage with a 5% deposit, instead of the usual 10-20% required in the wake of changes in lending standards a couple of years ago. The scheme comes into effect at the beginning of next year.
Anyway he had a minor car accident in his 10 year old car (they are a one car family) and had a new courtesy vehicle to drive around in. So now he's talking about how nice the new car is and how much time he'd save if they had two cars (wouldn't have to drop the partner at work or something like that) whether he should maybe upgrade to something similar, i.e., a 20K+ new car purchase. I gently tried to suggest that if they felt they needed a second car a 'cheapie' might be a good idea.
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My 5 year old already complains she hates chores. Yup even taking things out of her bag. Hoping to show her the value of work so she can be a lady of leisure with her own means but it’s a rocky start.
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Context: I work in a medium-pay frontline service job in a HCOL city.
I have a colleague in his mid-30s who frequently complains of the cost of living in Sydney and how impossible it is to buy a house. Recently he was buoyed by the news of a government scheme to allow first home buyers to get a mortgage with a 5% deposit, instead of the usual 10-20% required in the wake of changes in lending standards a couple of years ago. The scheme comes into effect at the beginning of next year.
Anyway he had a minor car accident in his 10 year old car (they are a one car family) and had a new courtesy vehicle to drive around in. So now he's talking about how nice the new car is and how much time he'd save if they had two cars (wouldn't have to drop the partner at work or something like that) whether he should maybe upgrade to something similar, i.e., a 20K+ new car purchase. I gently tried to suggest that if they felt they needed a second car a 'cheapie' might be a good idea.
That's the trap. Add in how much easier it is to get $100k in credit on an array of cards compared to a mortgage, and people wind up going the wrong way really fast.
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My 5 year old already complains she hates chores. Yup even taking things out of her bag. Hoping to show her the value of work so she can be a lady of leisure with her own means but it’s a rocky start.
*sigh* Our almost-5-year-old is similar. It's also harder with her because she's the youngest, and DW and I have recognized that because there isn't a more-needy younger sibling, we haven't placed the same expectations on her as we have on her older siblings. We're working to correct that.
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My 5 year old already complains she hates chores. Yup even taking things out of her bag. Hoping to show her the value of work so she can be a lady of leisure with her own means but it’s a rocky start.
*sigh* Our almost-5-year-old is similar. It's also harder with her because she's the youngest, and DW and I have recognized that because there isn't a more-needy younger sibling, we haven't placed the same expectations on her as we have on her older siblings. We're working to correct that.
My 8 year old gripes about having to do a math page each day. She's the youngest, too.
I find with my youngest I have to dig down deep to have some semblance of the energetic parent I once was.
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My oldest is 5 and she has taken to griping about how hard life is and how she always has to do everything. Le Sigh...
I reminder that no, actually she doesn’t do everything, just wait until she becomes a mother.
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Wife and I are having many conversations with the girl, also 5, now that she understands the whole “Israelites were slaves in Egypt and had to make bricks” part of Exodus. I think we are getting through the difference between household chores and slavery. 🙂
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Our six-year-old is still trying the old “all of my friends are allowed to” or “none of my friends has to” game. He doesn’t yet realize how much parents talk about their kids on private channels such as WhatsApp.
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Absolutely! We tell our kids it is our job to raise responsible adults. And they can't learn everything they need to know 2 weeks before moving out so they better start now. For some reason the 9 year old is convinced that having to help make HIS OWN SANDWICH is a terrible punishment and no kid anywhere else ever has to do this.
I overhear a lot of conversation regarding kids at work and try to add those useful ideas into our home.
...Or unloading the dishwasher!!! Heavens!
I made my kid start taking his laundry to the laundromat when he was 12. I did the laundry at the laundromat and gave it to him to put away and it just ended up on the floor for me to wash the following week. Fast forward 25 years - he now does the laundry for himself, his wife, his daughter, his MIL and GrandMIL because he thinks he does it best.
Then there is hope after all!!!! ;)
Hate to say it but sometimes these kid gripes last into their teen years... No relief.
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My 5 year old already complains she hates chores. Yup even taking things out of her bag. Hoping to show her the value of work so she can be a lady of leisure with her own means but it’s a rocky start.
*sigh* Our almost-5-year-old is similar. It's also harder with her because she's the youngest, and DW and I have recognized that because there isn't a more-needy younger sibling, we haven't placed the same expectations on her as we have on her older siblings. We're working to correct that.
My 8 year old gripes about having to do a math page each day. She's the youngest, too.
I find with my youngest I have to dig down deep to have some semblance of the energetic parent I once was.
Crud. Mine is an only child! She’s six in September so some things need to start. But not without a debate it seems. She has a point of view and an independent mind that I cherish (I promise).
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I've seen this as well and cannot figure out the end-game for the parents. What do they expect to happen once they are no longer around?
I think after all that lift early on in their lives (free education, free early childcare, significant help with housing), the kids are usually pretty well set and they just breeze along. If they went into low-paying fields, they just keep asking when they need something they can't afford and if they went into high-paying fields, they just build. Somewhere in their 30s or 40s, their highly-educated grandparents who had kids later in life (for that generation) pass away and leave all of the grandchildren (and their own children) money. The parents usually have enough -- even after all that -- to meet their own needs and eventually everything gets passed down.
Nice work if you can get it! I don't begrudge my middle class values but it's hard to be working twice as hard in order to have half as much compared to the people I personally know. Of course, I could get different friends but these are usually nice people who just happen to have been born with upper middle class + grandparents and parents.
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The coworker I was talking to was also trying to lose weight, and she mentioned once she hit her target she was going to get her eyebrows microbladed. Have you guys heard of this? I had to Google it after she left, but prices range from $200 to $1000 for the initial treatment, and up to $100/mo for touch ups. Just looked at a local shop - $400 for the initial treatment, $50 touch up 6-8 weeks out. AND they offer 0% financing for six months! What a deal!
Uh ... I think that belongs in the "get a side gig" thread! That's pretty good money!
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I had the opposite experience this week with an admittedly spendy colleague who always complains about how he will never be able to buy a house.
Migrant family, parents on the pension, and I figured money had always been tight.
Nope, his parents won more than $1 million in a lottery about 15 years ago, and spent and gambled the lot.
This explains the note of resentment he has when he talks about his parents and money. I would be seething.
Apparently, it's very common for lottery millionaires to lost almost all of that money fairly quickly. They get targeted by scammers, give in to wants vs. needs, everyone they know asks them for money. In some communities, you share something good when you get it. Everyone is going to need to rely on someone else at some point so there isn't the same sense of "This is mine and that is yours and if you run into trouble that is your problem" that middle class families have. If you happen to get a windfall, you celebrate and invite everyone to celebrate with you, because saving enough to make a difference does not seem possible and you might as well enjoy something when you can because hardship will come soon enough.
In my DW family, if she happened to come into any money at all (allowance, babysitting), her parents would ask to borrow it and never pay it back. You'd better believe she learned to spend that money on something she could consume / enjoy immediately real quick.
When you're talking about big money, like winning the lottery, it's pretty obvious that this is a bad strategy. But let's take something smaller, like a lottery ticket, which is statistically a really bad idea but which gives a lot of people a feeling of hope. If someone refuses to buy one lottery ticket a week, he will have saved $52 at the end of the year. It's good not to waste $50 but it's also not a transformative amount of money to save. I can understand why someone without great options might choose to buy hope with that $50 even if I would personally never spend it.
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Our six-year-old is still trying the old “all of my friends are allowed to” or “none of my friends has to” game. He doesn’t yet realize how much parents talk about their kids on private channels such as WhatsApp.
My teen did it too, until about age 17 when I perfected the fine art of saying: "Have their parents call me and explain how they do it and can afford it." I received zero explanatory calls, E-mails, or letters so I decided the "everyone" argument was bullshit.
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Our six-year-old is still trying the old “all of my friends are allowed to” or “none of my friends has to” game. He doesn’t yet realize how much parents talk about their kids on private channels such as WhatsApp.
My teen did it too, until about age 17 when I perfected the fine art of saying: "Have their parents call me and explain how they do it and can afford it." I received zero explanatory calls, E-mails, or letters so I decided the "everyone" argument was bullshit.
Ny kids gave up on that tactic a long time ago because they know it will trigger either
A) an hour long (or more) dialogue on cultural differences, rules and regulations, child development theories, ethics and moral (diverting into philosophy and theory of ethics), etc
Or if we don’t have time:
B) “that sounds unfair. Would you rather live with some of those folks?”
If it is a money issue, i’m very open to all good suggestions to alter the budget, as long as the argument is presented in a calm and coherent way, is good, and they can tell me where the money should come from.
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My supervisor was excited to tell me this morning that he's buying a brand new truck.. a 2018 Dodge Ram 3500 with an MSRP of ~$70k. He's trading in a paid off 2012 Tundra with only 60k miles on it. Pretty much the only thing he uses a truck for is a putting a bed-mounted camper in it for weekend camping trips less than 15 times a year (he also bought the camper new for like 20k last year). But hey, it's a smoking deal since he's only paying $60k for the truck and getting $22k for his trade-in!! SMH
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Oh, my, I misspoke.
I said 35 bookshelves.
I meant to say 35 book cases, each composed of many shelves.
I both revere and pity you.
Some people are book lovers, some are bibliophiles. Me, I'm a book slut.
you're making me envision the episodes of hoarders where homes become structurally unsafe because they have 300,000 lbs of books in them...
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The coworker I was talking to was also trying to lose weight, and she mentioned once she hit her target she was going to get her eyebrows microbladed. Have you guys heard of this? I had to Google it after she left, but prices range from $200 to $1000 for the initial treatment, and up to $100/mo for touch ups. Just looked at a local shop - $400 for the initial treatment, $50 touch up 6-8 weeks out. AND they offer 0% financing for six months! What a deal!
I read this as microbraided and was trying to imagine braided eyebrows!
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Our six-year-old is still trying the old “all of my friends are allowed to” or “none of my friends has to” game. He doesn’t yet realize how much parents talk about their kids on private channels such as WhatsApp.
My teen did it too, until about age 17 when I perfected the fine art of saying: "Have their parents call me and explain how they do it and can afford it." I received zero explanatory calls, E-mails, or letters so I decided the "everyone" argument was bullshit.
That's awesome! I hope you don't mind if I shamelessly plagiarise this...
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I work at a mid-size corporation. I was in a meeting yesterday with one of the Finance managers and an IT guy. The Finance person said "my wife showed me an article yesterday about something called FIRE." He explained a little about what that meant, and I helped him remember the words to the acronym.
Finance guy: "Can you BELIEVE that people think they can retire on only $1 million. I'd need at least $10 million."
Me: "You need $400k per year to live on?"
Finance guy: "Oh no, 4% is way too risky. You should really only be withdrawing 2%. That would only give us $200k per year."
IT guy: "Yeah, that sounds a lot more reasonable."
Me: "There are a lot of people who can live quite well on $40k per year."
Finance guy: "They probably don't have their own private planes."
IT guy: "And I bet they don't take vacations, either. Hey, fdm, didn't you just go on vacation?"
Me: "Yes, my husband and I went to a cabin in <town 90 miles away> to hike. No internet, no cell service, a little kitchen to cook in - it was great!"
Finance guy: "I love that town. I fly my plane there all the time."
I gave up and started the meeting.
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When you're talking about big money, like winning the lottery, it's pretty obvious that this is a bad strategy. But let's take something smaller, like a lottery ticket, which is statistically a really bad idea but which gives a lot of people a feeling of hope. If someone refuses to buy one lottery ticket a week, he will have saved $52 at the end of the year. It's good not to waste $50 but it's also not a transformative amount of money to save. I can understand why someone without great options might choose to buy hope with that $50 even if I would personally never spend it.
I buy a lottery ticket once in a while (about 4 times per year). I like the thrill of imagining what I'd do if I win. But only ever buy 1 ticket. I have always believed that the value of a 1 in 300 million chance may be worth $1, but a 2 in 300 million chance is certainly not worth an extra $1. Sadly, most lottery players that I know are spending $10-$20 per week or more.
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I work at a mid-size corporation. I was in a meeting yesterday with one of the Finance managers and an IT guy. The Finance person said "my wife showed me an article yesterday about something called FIRE." He explained a little about what that meant, and I helped him remember the words to the acronym.
Finance guy: "Can you BELIEVE that people think they can retire on only $1 million. I'd need at least $10 million."
Me: "You need $400k per year to live on?"
Finance guy: "Oh no, 4% is way too risky. You should really only be withdrawing 2%. That would only give us $200k per year."
IT guy: "Yeah, that sounds a lot more reasonable."
Me: "There are a lot of people who can live quite well on $40k per year."
Finance guy: "They probably don't have their own private planes."
IT guy: "And I bet they don't take vacations, either. Hey, fdm, didn't you just go on vacation?"
Me: "Yes, my husband and I went to a cabin in <town 90 miles away> to hike. No internet, no cell service, a little kitchen to cook in - it was great!"
Finance guy: "I love that town. I fly my plane there all the time."
I gave up and started the meeting.
LOLOL... I'm assuming they don't know you're a FIREee?
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I work at a mid-size corporation. I was in a meeting yesterday with one of the Finance managers and an IT guy. The Finance person said "my wife showed me an article yesterday about something called FIRE." He explained a little about what that meant, and I helped him remember the words to the acronym.
Finance guy: "Can you BELIEVE that people think they can retire on only $1 million. I'd need at least $10 million."
Me: "You need $400k per year to live on?"
Finance guy: "Oh no, 4% is way too risky. You should really only be withdrawing 2%. That would only give us $200k per year."
IT guy: "Yeah, that sounds a lot more reasonable."
Me: "There are a lot of people who can live quite well on $40k per year."
Finance guy: "They probably don't have their own private planes."
IT guy: "And I bet they don't take vacations, either. Hey, fdm, didn't you just go on vacation?"
Me: "Yes, my husband and I went to a cabin in <town 90 miles away> to hike. No internet, no cell service, a little kitchen to cook in - it was great!"
Finance guy: "I love that town. I fly my plane there all the time."
I gave up and started the meeting.
LOLOL... I'm assuming they don't know you're a FIREee?
Well fdm is probably a pleb without a private plane so she can retire on a paltry 1 million
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Do you think Finance Guy really plans on working until he has $10MM saved? Also, do you think he has any plan to actually achieve that?
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I work at a mid-size corporation. I was in a meeting yesterday with one of the Finance managers and an IT guy. The Finance person said "my wife showed me an article yesterday about something called FIRE." He explained a little about what that meant, and I helped him remember the words to the acronym.
Finance guy: "Can you BELIEVE that people think they can retire on only $1 million. I'd need at least $10 million."
Me: "You need $400k per year to live on?"
Finance guy: "Oh no, 4% is way too risky. You should really only be withdrawing 2%. That would only give us $200k per year."
IT guy: "Yeah, that sounds a lot more reasonable."
Me: "There are a lot of people who can live quite well on $40k per year."
Finance guy: "They probably don't have their own private planes."
IT guy: "And I bet they don't take vacations, either. Hey, fdm, didn't you just go on vacation?"
Me: "Yes, my husband and I went to a cabin in <town 90 miles away> to hike. No internet, no cell service, a little kitchen to cook in - it was great!"
Finance guy: "I love that town. I fly my plane there all the time."
I gave up and started the meeting.
The thing is, a plane doesn't have to cost you an additional $160k/year. A used Cessna 172 can be had for $60-90k, the annual inspection is under $1500, hangar rental is a few hundred per month, insurance is a couple thousand per year. The cost of fuel is highly dependent on the airplane and how you fly it, but let's say your fuel is $5/gal and you're burning 10 gallons per hour (on the generous side), so Finance Guy's cost is about $100 each time he flies to <that town>.
Yeah, you're going to have trouble retiring on $40k/year with an airplane, but if you want that airplane, those costs are pretty easy to calculate, and they're nowhere near $160k/year!
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And a person could buy into an airplane cooperative where there are multiple owners sharing the cost.
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Finance guy's plan, from what little I can gather, is to work until he can't. He'll likely have a 6-figure pension (which was closed to new employees before I started), but it won't reach $200k.
They hadn't figured out that I'm on the FIRE path yet, although the look on my face should have given it away. I am hoping that part of that was just teasing...
My dad built his own little plane when I was a kid. He had all kinds of expensive hobbies (but only one at a time), and he still retired very comfortably by 55. I hope my colleagues figure out that is possible for them, too.
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My friend has a little Cessna, but it doesn't seem to cost too much to run. He also still has his first car, a 1990 Honda Prelude, so he hasn't been wasting money on cars over the years.
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He also still has his first car, a 1990 Honda Prelude, so he hasn't been wasting money on cars over the years.
Those last forever. My husband's first car was a Prelude, and he bought another one (an '85, maybe?) last summer because he missed it.
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My supervisor was excited to tell me this morning that he's buying a brand new truck.. a 2018 Dodge Ram 3500 with an MSRP of ~$70k. He's trading in a paid off 2012 Tundra with only 60k miles on it. Pretty much the only thing he uses a truck for is a putting a bed-mounted camper in it for weekend camping trips less than 15 times a year (he also bought the camper new for like 20k last year). But hey, it's a smoking deal since he's only paying $60k for the truck and getting $22k for his trade-in!! SMH
Same guy, new story..
This morning I overheard a conversion he was having with another coworker about trucks/vehicles. His step-son is graduating from Air Force ROTC next year and he's advising him to go take out a loan on a brand new Tacoma once he gets his commission. Quite possibly the worst financial advice I've ever heard him give.
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I wish I went camping 15 times a year. I need to be more organized about that.
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My supervisor was excited to tell me this morning that he's buying a brand new truck.. a 2018 Dodge Ram 3500 with an MSRP of ~$70k. He's trading in a paid off 2012 Tundra with only 60k miles on it. Pretty much the only thing he uses a truck for is a putting a bed-mounted camper in it for weekend camping trips less than 15 times a year (he also bought the camper new for like 20k last year). But hey, it's a smoking deal since he's only paying $60k for the truck and getting $22k for his trade-in!! SMH
Same guy, new story..
This morning I overheard a conversion he was having with another coworker about trucks/vehicles. His step-son is graduating from Air Force ROTC next year and he's advising him to go take out a loan on a brand new Tacoma once he gets his commission. Quite possibly the worst financial advice I've ever heard him give.
Buddy of mine who was in ROTC said that every Ensign had a BMW Z3. If you needed a ride somewhere, they needed gas money.
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Former co-worker. Always complaining that he wasn't making enough $$. Told me that he stopped contributing to his RRSP because he couldn't keep up with his expenses.
3 years ago when I started he had just traded in his new (less than 1 yr old) Challenger and got a new Jeep. 6 months later it was traded for a new Charger. A year after than he traded for a new Civic Type R. All were financed, all under water - he kept rolling the old into the new loan. He has since left company so not sure what he's driving now.
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Hey! Some good news. Heard one of the youngins say that once their pickup truck was repaired they were selling it and buying a little used four cylinder gas sipper. Tired of buying lots of gasoline and the payments. Something makes me believe that they are serious and that the idea will be followed by action.
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Hey! Some good news. Heard one of the youngins say that once their pickup truck was repaired they were selling it and buying a little used four cylinder gas sipper. Tired of buying lots of gasoline and the payments. Something makes me believe that they are serious and that the idea will be followed by action.
won't happen, 99% chance. youngin will succumb to peer pressure about getting a 4-pot ricer, the reputation hit, etc.
i've seen it all during 2007-2008.
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We'll see. Person in question had a four poi gas sipper before the truck and they speak wistfully about the economy of that car. We'll see.
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Young guy in my office is set to get promoted (gov't job) and said "I don't know what I'd even do with $120,000 a year."
I said, "Are you maxing out your TSP?"
He said, "Ever since I started 15 year ago" when he only making $30,000.
The kid is a fucking rock star.
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My supervisor was excited to tell me this morning that he's buying a brand new truck.. a 2018 Dodge Ram 3500 with an MSRP of ~$70k. He's trading in a paid off 2012 Tundra with only 60k miles on it. Pretty much the only thing he uses a truck for is a putting a bed-mounted camper in it for weekend camping trips less than 15 times a year (he also bought the camper new for like 20k last year). But hey, it's a smoking deal since he's only paying $60k for the truck and getting $22k for his trade-in!! SMH
May be off base here, but when we looked for a "truck bed slide-in camper" we couldn't find one with an actual shower / decent toilet - that a Tundra could lug around [ not enough carrying capacity] - also in 10 years his Ram3500 Diesel will still probably be worth $45K .
Ok, I'm gonna duck out before i get hit with a rotten home grown tomato...
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My supervisor was excited to tell me this morning that he's buying a brand new truck.. a 2018 Dodge Ram 3500 with an MSRP of ~$70k. He's trading in a paid off 2012 Tundra with only 60k miles on it. Pretty much the only thing he uses a truck for is a putting a bed-mounted camper in it for weekend camping trips less than 15 times a year (he also bought the camper new for like 20k last year). But hey, it's a smoking deal since he's only paying $60k for the truck and getting $22k for his trade-in!! SMH
May be off base here, but when we looked for a "truck bed slide-in camper" we couldn't find one with an actual shower / decent toilet - that a Tundra could lug around [ not enough carrying capacity] - also in 10 years his Ram3500 Diesel will still probably be worth $45K .
Ok, I'm gonna duck out before i get hit with a rotten home grown tomato...
That truck will definitely not be worth $45k in ten years. A quick NADA search shows a 2009 Ram 3500 Laramie Quad Cab w/100k miles worth $27k clean retail..
My guess is the truck is a precursor to a fancy pants fifth wheel camper. I don't see any other reason you'd have a 1 ton truck for a 15 mile commute and a slide-in bed camper that already works fine in a 1/2 ton.
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Edmunds says a 2009 Ram3500 Laramie had a $45,700 MSRP.
$27,000 is 59% of the value retained with 100k miles driven
My example is a $70K truck retaining 64% of its value. Being that he likely used his Tundra for more than just camping trips and put approx 9K miles a year on it, then your co-worker should be putting less miles on a vehicle you say he'll use less than 15 times a year -- therefore way less than 100K miles in 10 years.
I suppose your calculator and anecdotes can be more accurate than mine - the point is a "low" mileage dodge diesel truck holds its value - way better than a typical car or SUV.....
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Young guy in my office is set to get promoted (gov't job) and said "I don't know what I'd even do with $120,000 a year."
I said, "Are you maxing out your TSP?"
He said, "Ever since I started 15 year ago" when he only making $30,000.
The kid is a fucking rock star.
That's awesome.
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Young guy in my office is set to get promoted (gov't job) and said "I don't know what I'd even do with $120,000 a year."
I said, "Are you maxing out your TSP?"
He said, "Ever since I started 15 year ago" when he only making $30,000.
The kid is a fucking rock star.
That's an awesome story, but in the wrong thread! :) The thread you want is the Overheard at Work: Anti-antimustachian edition (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work-the-anti-antimustachian-edition/).
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I'm and engineer and work with other engineers who tend to be rather sensible. Except for one guy. Guy just told us that he owns over "200 pairs of limited editions sneakers". Guy decided to be frugal and ONLY get the $95 dollar/week detailing package for his new Tesla. Guy also admitted he hasn't cooked dinner in months. Why cook when you can get food delivered from Door Dash from trendy restaurants?
Upon hearing that, other 2 engineers in the conversation just sat there stunned for a bit. No one knew what to say.
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I'm and engineer and work with other engineers who tend to be rather sensible. Except for one guy. Guy just told us that he owns over "200 pairs of limited editions sneakers". Guy decided to be frugal and ONLY get the $95 dollar/week detailing package for his new Tesla. Guy also admitted he hasn't cooked dinner in months. Why cook when you can get food delivered from Door Dash from trendy restaurants?
Upon hearing that, other 2 engineers in the conversation just sat there stunned for a bit. No one knew what to say.
Holy shit the detailing package is like half as much as the car payment!
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I'm and engineer and work with other engineers who tend to be rather sensible. Except for one guy. Guy just told us that he owns over "200 pairs of limited editions sneakers". Guy decided to be frugal and ONLY get the $95 dollar/week detailing package for his new Tesla. Guy also admitted he hasn't cooked dinner in months. Why cook when you can get food delivered from Door Dash from trendy restaurants?
Upon hearing that, other 2 engineers in the conversation just sat there stunned for a bit. No one knew what to say.
Holy shit the detailing package is like half as much as the car payment!
That's insane. I heard the other day "As soon as the Benz is paid off I am concentrating on student loans." Also eats out most lunches and dinners.....
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Another story about Guy and his wife. She bought a brand new Acura sedan. They weren't able to put their car seat in the back middle seat in the new sedan. She liked having the car seat in the middle, so she could reach back and occasionally hold her toddler's hand. So what do they do? They trade in their Acura (only about 2000 miles on it) for a brand new luxury SUV. Got be able to hold that hand for a few seconds before the light changes at intersections... I can't imagine how much they lost on it.
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I'm and engineer and work with other engineers who tend to be rather sensible. Except for one guy. Guy just told us that he owns over "200 pairs of limited editions sneakers". Guy decided to be frugal and ONLY get the $95 dollar/week detailing package for his new Tesla. Guy also admitted he hasn't cooked dinner in months. Why cook when you can get food delivered from Door Dash from trendy restaurants?
Upon hearing that, other 2 engineers in the conversation just sat there stunned for a bit. No one knew what to say.
Holy shit the detailing package is like half as much as the car payment!
Does this mean that the guy gets his car detailed every single week? What sort of mess could possibly accumulate regularly in his car such that it needs a whole detailing?
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I'm and engineer and work with other engineers who tend to be rather sensible. Except for one guy. Guy just told us that he owns over "200 pairs of limited editions sneakers". Guy decided to be frugal and ONLY get the $95 dollar/week detailing package for his new Tesla. Guy also admitted he hasn't cooked dinner in months. Why cook when you can get food delivered from Door Dash from trendy restaurants?
Upon hearing that, other 2 engineers in the conversation just sat there stunned for a bit. No one knew what to say.
Holy shit the detailing package is like half as much as the car payment!
Does this mean that the guy gets his car detailed every single week? What sort of mess could possibly accumulate regularly in his car such that it needs a whole detailing?
Fast food breakfast and lunch garbage and crumbs would be my guess.
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In November of last year, a coworker posted in our internal craigslist-esque marketplace that he was selling a brand new Galaxy Note 9 (for $950) that he ended up not wanting to keep (but missed the return window) because he was "very firmly rooted in the Apple ecosystem... I will soon have a new iPad... I've been using an iPhone for the past few years, and have bought a pile of apps... Also, iMessage is just too good of a messaging platform and most of his friends are on iOS." I don't believe he found a buyer, at least on our work board.
...he just posted today that he's planning on selling his latest model iPhone for $950 because he's planning on getting the new Galaxy Note 10 when it's released in a couple weeks.
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In November of last year, a coworker posted in our internal craigslist-esque marketplace that he was selling a brand new Galaxy Note 9 (for $950) that he ended up not wanting to keep (but missed the return window) because he was "very firmly rooted in the Apple ecosystem... I will soon have a new iPad... I've been using an iPhone for the past few years, and have bought a pile of apps... Also, iMessage is just too good of a messaging platform and most of his friends are on iOS." I don't believe he found a buyer, at least on our work board.
...he just posted today that he's planning on selling his latest model iPhone for $950 because he's planning on getting the new Galaxy Note 10 when it's released in a couple weeks.
You should reply with a screenshot of last time.
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I'm and engineer and work with other engineers who tend to be rather sensible. Except for one guy. Guy just told us that he owns over "200 pairs of limited editions sneakers". Guy decided to be frugal and ONLY get the $95 dollar/week detailing package for his new Tesla. Guy also admitted he hasn't cooked dinner in months. Why cook when you can get food delivered from Door Dash from trendy restaurants?
Upon hearing that, other 2 engineers in the conversation just sat there stunned for a bit. No one knew what to say.
Holy shit the detailing package is like half as much as the car payment!
Does this mean that the guy gets his car detailed every single week? What sort of mess could possibly accumulate regularly in his car such that it needs a whole detailing?
I guess if you live out of your car because you can't afford rent you won't have a covered parking space in it'll get pretty dirty, plus all the feces.
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Another story about Guy and his wife. She bought a brand new Acura sedan. They weren't able to put their car seat in the back middle seat in the new sedan. She liked having the car seat in the middle, so she could reach back and occasionally hold her toddler's hand. So what do they do? They trade in their Acura (only about 2000 miles on it) for a brand new luxury SUV. Got be able to hold that hand for a few seconds before the light changes at intersections... I can't imagine how much they lost on it.
Won't fit? We fit a pretty monster carseat in the back middle of a 10-year-old Elantra.
Other than "hand holding" - the middle seat is safer in the event of a side-impact crash, and so when you only have the 1 car seat, I heartily endorse the practice.
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Car seats are not all made equal, so the much better solution would probably have been to just get a different car seat, instead of a different car.
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Car seats are not all made equal, so the much better solution would probably have been to just get a different car seat, instead of a different car.
It's what we did, when we realized we'd need to fit 3 across in our Prius. New car: $$$$$$$$$. New high-end slender car seats: 900$. OUTRAGEOUS, until you consider the alternative expense, and then all of a sudden it looks profoundly reasonable in comparison.
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In November of last year, a coworker posted in our internal craigslist-esque marketplace that he was selling a brand new Galaxy Note 9 (for $950) that he ended up not wanting to keep (but missed the return window) because he was "very firmly rooted in the Apple ecosystem... I will soon have a new iPad... I've been using an iPhone for the past few years, and have bought a pile of apps... Also, iMessage is just too good of a messaging platform and most of his friends are on iOS." I don't believe he found a buyer, at least on our work board.
...he just posted today that he's planning on selling his latest model iPhone for $950 because he's planning on getting the new Galaxy Note 10 when it's released in a couple weeks.
This guy seems to be completely incoherent :-) I guess he's not quite so "rooted" in the Apple ecosystem!
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In November of last year, a coworker posted in our internal craigslist-esque marketplace that he was selling a brand new Galaxy Note 9 (for $950) that he ended up not wanting to keep (but missed the return window) because he was "very firmly rooted in the Apple ecosystem... I will soon have a new iPad... I've been using an iPhone for the past few years, and have bought a pile of apps... Also, iMessage is just too good of a messaging platform and most of his friends are on iOS." I don't believe he found a buyer, at least on our work board.
...he just posted today that he's planning on selling his latest model iPhone for $950 because he's planning on getting the new Galaxy Note 10 when it's released in a couple weeks.
Or in reality. Which may be the root cause of his problem.
This guy seems to be completely incoherent :-) I guess he's not quite so "rooted" in the Apple ecosystem!
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I just remembered one - not my work but my husband's.
He knew two brothers who were engineers making good money. One of them bought a house, the other bought an exotic car of some sort. Both purchases cost roughly the same amount. This was in L.A. 15 or 20 years ago. Guess how that worked out.
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Was chatting with a coworker. We were talking about student loans. She told me how she has a huge amount of student debt still at the age of 34 and has decided she doesn’t want to pay it back. I like her otherwise as a person but she’s in for a rude awakening...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Was chatting with a coworker. We were talking about student loans. She told me how she has a huge amount of student debt still at the age of 34 and has decided she doesn’t want to pay it back. I like her otherwise as a person but she’s in for a rude awakening...
Yeah - what exactly is her plan for not paying it back?
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Yeah - what exactly is her plan for not paying it back?
[/quote]
Not entirely sure. I’d think the student loan people would come after her to pay anyhow.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Wasn’t at work - just walking down the sidewalk. Two teenagers walking in front of me:
Teen1: I can just pay with my debit card
Teen2: never pay with a debit card!
Teen1: why not?
Teen2: because the money is gone instantly!
...
Teen2: always put it on a credit card so you can pay it over time. Then the money stays in the bank!
Teen1: oh! That makes sense!
Doomed.
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Wasn’t at work - just walking down the sidewalk. Two teenagers walking in front of me:
Teen1: I can just pay with my debit card
Teen2: never pay with a debit card!
Teen1: why not?
Teen2: because the money is gone instantly!
...
Teen2: always put it on a credit card so you can pay it over time. Then the money stays in the bank!
Teen1: oh! That makes sense!
Doomed.
Lol.. he had me in the first half, not gonna lie
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Co-worker 1: I have test driven a Tesla model S and I want to buy one. I put my Audi 3 up for sale quite som time ago, but so far it is not sold.
Me: If you can't sell you car, the price is too high.
Co-worker 2: How much did the car sales company want to give for your Audi 3?
Co-worker 1: 260.000 NOK, and I turned it down.
Co-worker 2: How old is it?
Co-worker 1: 3 years old and only driven x (I don't remember) kms.
Co-worker 2: Then the car should be worth approx 240.000 NOK. So you got a very good price offer.
Co-worker 1: I still think it is worth more. The car is in pristine condition and has low mileage.
Me thinking: Why on earth do you sell it???
Co-worker 1: What I really want to drive is a Jaguar I-Pace. But that costs a million NOK.
Co-worker 2: Life is too short, I think you should buy the car you really want to drive.
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Was chatting with a coworker. We were talking about student loans. She told me how she has a huge amount of student debt still at the age of 34 and has decided she doesn’t want to pay it back. I like her otherwise as a person but she’s in for a rude awakening...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reminds me of a 30-something lawyer I know. We met up for lunch one day when he invited me and my summer clerk to join him and his summer clerk at a local restaurant. As both clerks are law students, they started discussing their student loans (and the grants and scholarships they both have). The lawyer said, "I've got about $275,000 in loans. I'm never going to get rid of them, so I just pay the minimum and don't bother to think about it." Then he offered to pay for lunch for all of us. I got him to split the bill with me instead. Later saw him drive away in a late-model-looking Mercedes. I didn't mention that DH and I had over $300K in loans between us and managed, with luck and determination, to pay them off in a time period that was shorter than "never."
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At my wife's job today:
CW: Did you get a bonus? I got a $500 bonus in my paycheck!
Wife: For what? I didn't hear about any bonuses, and you know our payroll person just got fired, right?
CW: Oh crap, you mean it might be a mistake?
Wife: Yes, I wouldn't spend that until after the next audit. They may come looking for it.
CW: But it's too late...I went on a spending spree on Friday! I don't know how I'll pay it back now!
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Was chatting with a coworker. We were talking about student loans. She told me how she has a huge amount of student debt still at the age of 34 and has decided she doesn’t want to pay it back. I like her otherwise as a person but she’s in for a rude awakening...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reminds me of a 30-something lawyer I know. We met up for lunch one day when he invited me and my summer clerk to join him and his summer clerk at a local restaurant. As both clerks are law students, they started discussing their student loans (and the grants and scholarships they both have). The lawyer said, "I've got about $275,000 in loans. I'm never going to get rid of them, so I just pay the minimum and don't bother to think about it." Then he offered to pay for lunch for all of us. I got him to split the bill with me instead. Later saw him drive away in a late-model-looking Mercedes. I didn't mention that DH and I had over $300K in loans between us and managed, with luck and determination, to pay them off in a time period that was shorter than "never."
This is what bugs me about some proposals for the government to pay off student debt (see warren). I’m not opposed to socializing higher education, but on a practical level this rewards the spendypants or non-critical major choosers and punishes the prudent. If anyone has low-rate student debt right now it makes zero sense for them to pay it off just in case it does get canceled out
Slightly related https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi77cqhjf7jAhWM4J4KHdIiBUcQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2F2019%2Faug%2F09%2Fchase-bank-cancels-all-credit-card-debt-for-canadian-customers&psig=AOvVaw0rKzkTa-vRi6zSOn-fQzr-&ust=1565725798578536
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Was chatting with a coworker. We were talking about student loans. She told me how she has a huge amount of student debt still at the age of 34 and has decided she doesn’t want to pay it back. I like her otherwise as a person but she’s in for a rude awakening...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reminds me of a 30-something lawyer I know. We met up for lunch one day when he invited me and my summer clerk to join him and his summer clerk at a local restaurant. As both clerks are law students, they started discussing their student loans (and the grants and scholarships they both have). The lawyer said, "I've got about $275,000 in loans. I'm never going to get rid of them, so I just pay the minimum and don't bother to think about it." Then he offered to pay for lunch for all of us. I got him to split the bill with me instead. Later saw him drive away in a late-model-looking Mercedes. I didn't mention that DH and I had over $300K in loans between us and managed, with luck and determination, to pay them off in a time period that was shorter than "never."
This is what bugs me about some proposals for the government to pay off student debt (see warren). I’m not opposed to socializing higher education, but on a practical level this rewards the spendypants or non-critical major choosers and punishes the prudent. If anyone has low-rate student debt right now it makes zero sense for them to pay it off just in case it does get canceled out
Slightly related https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi77cqhjf7jAhWM4J4KHdIiBUcQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2F2019%2Faug%2F09%2Fchase-bank-cancels-all-credit-card-debt-for-canadian-customers&psig=AOvVaw0rKzkTa-vRi6zSOn-fQzr-&ust=1565725798578536
Just because a major doesn't pay well doesn't mean it's not important. Our bodies don't need a lot of certain trace elements but we sicken and die without them.
As for your other points, just because some people are smart or lucky enough to avoid the traps laid for them by the lenders and those who enable them is no reason not to redress the predatory lending practices they were suckered into.
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Was chatting with a coworker. We were talking about student loans. She told me how she has a huge amount of student debt still at the age of 34 and has decided she doesn’t want to pay it back. I like her otherwise as a person but she’s in for a rude awakening...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reminds me of a 30-something lawyer I know. We met up for lunch one day when he invited me and my summer clerk to join him and his summer clerk at a local restaurant. As both clerks are law students, they started discussing their student loans (and the grants and scholarships they both have). The lawyer said, "I've got about $275,000 in loans. I'm never going to get rid of them, so I just pay the minimum and don't bother to think about it." Then he offered to pay for lunch for all of us. I got him to split the bill with me instead. Later saw him drive away in a late-model-looking Mercedes. I didn't mention that DH and I had over $300K in loans between us and managed, with luck and determination, to pay them off in a time period that was shorter than "never."
This is what bugs me about some proposals for the government to pay off student debt (see warren). I’m not opposed to socializing higher education, but on a practical level this rewards the spendypants or non-critical major choosers and punishes the prudent. If anyone has low-rate student debt right now it makes zero sense for them to pay it off just in case it does get canceled out
Slightly related https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi77cqhjf7jAhWM4J4KHdIiBUcQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2F2019%2Faug%2F09%2Fchase-bank-cancels-all-credit-card-debt-for-canadian-customers&psig=AOvVaw0rKzkTa-vRi6zSOn-fQzr-&ust=1565725798578536
Just because a major doesn't pay well doesn't mean it's not important. Our bodies don't need a lot of certain trace elements but we sicken and die without them.
As for your other points, just because some people are smart or lucky enough to avoid the traps laid for them by the lenders and those who enable them is no reason not to redress the predatory lending practices they were suckered into.
Still on the fence. I racked up a cool 100k for my undergrad. graduated and didn’t have a decent job for 2 years. Then paid off the whole thing in 3 years making between 40k-70k while living in NYC. Should I have not done that? Should I feel penalized for not getting my debt forgiven? I wanted to go to art school because art is fun. I am an engineer because the recession was real.
Not sure I agree with going back and paying debt that was already taken out years prior. You want to change things going forward? I have no issue with that.
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This is what bugs me about some proposals for the government to pay off student debt (see warren). I’m not opposed to socializing higher education, but on a practical level this rewards the spendypants or non-critical major choosers and punishes the prudent. If anyone has low-rate student debt right now it makes zero sense for them to pay it off just in case it does get canceled out
There are a lot of good reasons to oppose student debt repayment, but I wish people could express this opinion without insulting those of us who have student loans. Borrowing for school can be a rational choice that pays off for the borrower--and you don't have to be particularly free-spending to have a hard time paying out of pocket for five figures a year in tuition plus living costs. So please stop it with the personal insults.
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This is what bugs me about some proposals for the government to pay off student debt (see warren). I’m not opposed to socializing higher education, but on a practical level this rewards the spendypants or non-critical major choosers and punishes the prudent. If anyone has low-rate student debt right now it makes zero sense for them to pay it off just in case it does get canceled out
There are a lot of good reasons to oppose student debt repayment, but I wish people could express this opinion without insulting those of us who have student loans. Borrowing for school can be a rational choice that pays off for the borrower--and you don't have to be particularly free-spending to have a hard time paying out of pocket for five figures a year in tuition plus living costs. So please stop it with the personal insults.
Spending five figures on education annually as a young adult IS spendypants. Spend your own pants, to stretch the metaphor.
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This is what bugs me about some proposals for the government to pay off student debt (see warren). I’m not opposed to socializing higher education, but on a practical level this rewards the spendypants or non-critical major choosers and punishes the prudent. If anyone has low-rate student debt right now it makes zero sense for them to pay it off just in case it does get canceled out
There are a lot of good reasons to oppose student debt repayment, but I wish people could express this opinion without insulting those of us who have student loans. Borrowing for school can be a rational choice that pays off for the borrower--and you don't have to be particularly free-spending to have a hard time paying out of pocket for five figures a year in tuition plus living costs. So please stop it with the personal insults.
It wasn't my intention to imply that EVERY person with student debt is spendypants or chose a major imprudently. Likewise, some people don't have student debt through no merit of their own (myself included). But both of those behaviors exist and will be rewarded/harmed by the proposal.
For example, not everyone who took out a liar loan was actually a liar, but the upshot of bailing out those loans is that liars were rewarded.
I also don't think my comment on its face contained any personal insults.
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This is what bugs me about some proposals for the government to pay off student debt (see warren). I’m not opposed to socializing higher education, but on a practical level this rewards the spendypants or non-critical major choosers and punishes the prudent. If anyone has low-rate student debt right now it makes zero sense for them to pay it off just in case it does get canceled out
On a practical level, in a past 19th century model, those "prudent" people who already have no debts will not only have no debts in the future, but also already a foundation for their nest egg.
Also practical that those who have crushing debts no longer have the hammer over them and can actually start to behave rationally.
And not to forget the practical side that the looming threat that now prevents many poor people from studying (which is likely a big reason for that system) will be away.
The student debt crisis in the US now is the result of a totally borked system. Change the system. And then you have to clean up the fallout, aka the debts, which is done by forgiveness.
Expensive? Yes. But that is the result of an insane system. It's not like you weren't warned a quarter century ago.
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This thread was supposed to be about funny things people heard at work, not about people getting educations they can't afford. Suggest starting another bickering thread and get back to the humor?
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All I can think of about these SL convos is that clearly, some people feel that poor people don't deserve educations.
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All I can think of about these SL convos is that clearly, some people feel that poor people don't deserve educations.
I firmly believe that no one "deserves" an education.
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This thread was supposed to be about funny things people heard at work, not about people getting educations they can't afford. Suggest starting another bickering thread and get back to the humor?
Ok I don’t think anyone else made one so here: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/student-loan-forgiveness-107236/
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This thread was supposed to be about funny things people heard at work, not about people getting educations they can't afford. Suggest starting another bickering thread and get back to the humor?
Ok, black boxes are orange and foam comes in many colors and flavors.
I haven't been to work in over a year, so my useful contribution is limited.
A younger colleague bought a new Subaru wrx sti (350HP?) and promptly took it to the shop to have it upped to about 800. Shop time to driving time ratio ~ 10:1, as it kept blowing up.
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This thread was supposed to be about funny things people heard at work, not about people getting educations they can't afford. Suggest starting another bickering thread and get back to the humor?
Ok, black boxes are orange and foam comes in many colors and flavors.
I haven't been to work in over a year, so my useful contribution is limited.
A younger colleague bought a new Subaru wrx sti (350HP?) and promptly took it to the shop to have it upped to about 800. Shop time to driving time ratio ~ 10:1, as it kept blowing up.
Better than folding the car around himself and a light pole, I suppose.
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Not at work, but with a friend.
A friend who is 30, rents a studio, works at a coffee shop (past 10 years, probably at $15/hour) showed me a mug he really wanted to buy off of etsy. It was a sweet mug that was handmade and had this really cool pirate design, I think with a pirate ship and some sort of skull and crossbones. The mug was $60. With shipping it was $80. Now, I am all for handmade goods and art. I love to support artists and understand that you are paying for all of the time they have invested in their skill.
We were sitting at a table when he was about to buy it and I said, "that is a sweet mug, but $80 is a whole lot of money just for something to drink coffee out of, especially when you already have many other mugs." He decided I was right, but gee dang it I was shocked that someone would so seriously consider like 6 hours of work after taxes to buy something that they already owned dozens of, just because this one was neat.
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Not at work, but with a friend.
A friend who is 30, rents a studio, works at a coffee shop (past 10 years, probably at $15/hour) showed me a mug he really wanted to buy off of etsy. It was a sweet mug that was handmade and had this really cool pirate design, I think with a pirate ship and some sort of skull and crossbones. The mug was $60. With shipping it was $80. Now, I am all for handmade goods and art. I love to support artists and understand that you are paying for all of the time they have invested in their skill.
We were sitting at a table when he was about to buy it and I said, "that is a sweet mug, but $80 is a whole lot of money just for something to drink coffee out of, especially when you already have many other mugs." He decided I was right, but gee dang it I was shocked that someone would so seriously consider like 6 hours of work after taxes to buy something that they already owned dozens of, just because this one was neat.
I think the point is that your friend didn't do this at all. They thought only about the shiny, fancy mug that they might have. They might have equated that to spending $80, but even if they did they almost certainly didn't equate it to 6 hours of work.
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Me: With central banks cutting interest rates I’m worried about inflation and thinking about investing in gold.
Colleague: I thought the same thing 2 years ago, so I invested in bitcoin. Then I lost $6k. If there’s going to be inflation, you should invest in a new car. In fact, you should buy the new Tesla Model 3 before the price goes up.
Me: *facepalm
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Me: With central banks cutting interest rates I’m worried about inflation and thinking about investing in gold.
Colleague: I thought the same thing 2 years ago, so I invested in bitcoin. Then I lost $6k. If there’s going to be inflation, you should invest in a new car. In fact, you should buy the new Tesla Model 3 before the price goes up.
Me: *facepalm
Economic stimulus 101
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All I can think of about these SL convos is that clearly, some people feel that poor people don't deserve educations.
I firmly believe that no one "deserves" an education.
Time to completely dismantle all public schools, from kindergarten to 12th grade. Teach your own damn kids.
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All I can think of about these SL convos is that clearly, some people feel that poor people don't deserve educations.
I firmly believe that no one "deserves" an education.
Time to completely dismantle all public schools, from kindergarten to 12th grade. Teach your own damn kids.
Oh, please no. I live in eternal hope that, at some point, I'll be surrounded by people with some level of critical thinking and literacy. Looking at someof the people having kids now... please, no.
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A couple of coworkers were discussing their kids today. One of them was asking the other if their kids started school yet. Shortly after that, one of them mentioned that their four kids had to go to different schools. That is, four different schools, four different routes. I thought that was nuts, and then the other coworker said, "Oh yeah, I know how that is. My two kids (similar age) went to different schools..." So this is normal for people these days?! Whatever happened to just letting your kids walk to and from school?
I can't imagine how much time, energy, and fuel gets expended on that logistical mess every school day, just because they either feel like they can't tear their kids away from their old friends or because they feel like their kids need to be at "the best" schools.
I know there's a lot of problems with the way cities are laid out, but gawd, they're really buying into it, and that's part of the problem. At least that younger generation is supposed to as a whole be less into driving.
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A couple of coworkers were discussing their kids today. One of them was asking the other if their kids started school yet. Shortly after that, one of them mentioned that their four kids had to go to different schools. That is, four different schools, four different routes. I thought that was nuts, and then the other coworker said, "Oh yeah, I know how that is. My two kids (similar age) went to different schools..." So this is normal for people these days?! Whatever happened to just letting your kids walk to and from school?
I can't imagine how much time, energy, and fuel gets expended on that logistical mess every school day, just because they either feel like they can't tear their kids away from their old friends or because they feel like their kids need to be at "the best" schools.
I know there's a lot of problems with the way cities are laid out, but gawd, they're really buying into it, and that's part of the problem. At least that younger generation is supposed to as a whole be less into driving.
I've seen exactly 2 children walking in a school crossing zone during the slow-speed period in the last 18 years. Two.
On a humorous note, I was visiting a military base in town. I heard a couple of guys discussing the gun carry rules on post for when they were in their cars. They didn't like it because, the way the rules were written, there was a point in time they weren't able to defend themselves if attacked. They thought that rule was silly.
A lady stated the words to this effect in a very quiet, soft-spoken manner, "When I drive by the elementary school in the morning, I have to slow down to 25mph because that keeps the small children safe." (Of course, that's because the small children will run in front of the cars and do other foolish things.) She paused, then continued, "But when I drive past the solder's barracks, I have to slow down to 15mph..."
That argument was over real quick. The guys had nothing.
I bust a gut laughing.
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A couple of coworkers were discussing their kids today. One of them was asking the other if their kids started school yet. Shortly after that, one of them mentioned that their four kids had to go to different schools. That is, four different schools, four different routes. I thought that was nuts, and then the other coworker said, "Oh yeah, I know how that is. My two kids (similar age) went to different schools..." So this is normal for people these days?! Whatever happened to just letting your kids walk to and from school?
I can't imagine how much time, energy, and fuel gets expended on that logistical mess every school day, just because they either feel like they can't tear their kids away from their old friends or because they feel like their kids need to be at "the best" schools.
I know there's a lot of problems with the way cities are laid out, but gawd, they're really buying into it, and that's part of the problem. At least that younger generation is supposed to as a whole be less into driving.
Just to provide another perspective - I live in a town of 10,000 people. And my two kids will never be in the same school building together. Our schools break preK-1, 2-5, 6-8, 9-12. As my kids are 4 years apart in school due to their birthdays, we always have to shuttle to multiple schools or pay for the bus passes. We have zero choice about which school our kids attend; this is just the way the public school decided to fill the buildings.
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In a town of 10,000, aren't the schools close enough that all but the very youngest can just walk or bike to school?
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In a town of 10,000, aren't the schools close enough that all but the very youngest can just walk or bike to school?
No.
I grew up in a town of 13,000. Most of the town is very spaced out due to farmland and oil fields. Depending on where you live, it could require going down the highway to get to any school.
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A couple of coworkers were discussing their kids today. One of them was asking the other if their kids started school yet. Shortly after that, one of them mentioned that their four kids had to go to different schools. That is, four different schools, four different routes. I thought that was nuts, and then the other coworker said, "Oh yeah, I know how that is. My two kids (similar age) went to different schools..." So this is normal for people these days?! Whatever happened to just letting your kids walk to and from school?
I can't imagine how much time, energy, and fuel gets expended on that logistical mess every school day, just because they either feel like they can't tear their kids away from their old friends or because they feel like their kids need to be at "the best" schools.
I know there's a lot of problems with the way cities are laid out, but gawd, they're really buying into it, and that's part of the problem. At least that younger generation is supposed to as a whole be less into driving.
My oldest is starting school this year, and yeah, we're transporting her to a "better" school.
Translation: we're NOT signing up for a 45-minute drive to pick her up after school (or a bus that drops her off 2 hours before we get home from work, at age 5... um, no - our jobs are in the opposite direction of the school the district would bus her to), and are transporting her to the school that is 1km from my work instead, which logistically works much better. By doing so, she (and subsequently all our children) can go to a diverse school with well-trained teachers and multiple activities, instead of the school where, litereally, there's a wing built onto the side of the building to house the Social Services department, and the HS graduation rate is under 30%.
... So, yeah. While I wouldn't shuffle my kids to multiple different schools, I can definitely understand why parents look at the school closest to their house and go <uuuuum... no.>
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A couple of coworkers were discussing their kids today. One of them was asking the other if their kids started school yet. Shortly after that, one of them mentioned that their four kids had to go to different schools. That is, four different schools, four different routes. I thought that was nuts, and then the other coworker said, "Oh yeah, I know how that is. My two kids (similar age) went to different schools..." So this is normal for people these days?! Whatever happened to just letting your kids walk to and from school?
I can't imagine how much time, energy, and fuel gets expended on that logistical mess every school day, just because they either feel like they can't tear their kids away from their old friends or because they feel like their kids need to be at "the best" schools.
I know there's a lot of problems with the way cities are laid out, but gawd, they're really buying into it, and that's part of the problem. At least that younger generation is supposed to as a whole be less into driving.
My oldest is starting school this year, and yeah, we're transporting her to a "better" school.
Translation: we're NOT signing up for a 45-minute drive to pick her up after school (or a bus that drops her off 2 hours before we get home from work, at age 5... um, no - our jobs are in the opposite direction of the school the district would bus her to), and are transporting her to the school that is 1km from my work instead, which logistically works much better. By doing so, she (and subsequently all our children) can go to a diverse school with well-trained teachers and multiple activities, instead of the school where, litereally, there's a wing built onto the side of the building to house the Social Services department, and the HS graduation rate is under 30%.
... So, yeah. While I wouldn't shuffle my kids to multiple different schools, I can definitely understand why parents look at the school closest to their house and go <uuuuum... no.>
I can relate to this. We live in a great district, but had briefly considered this really, really cool old Victorian place. But then we realized we'd have to mentally add $120k onto the price of the house to pay for private school because the school that was literally in sight of the house was just so bad. The house didn't seem like such a great deal then.
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A couple of coworkers were discussing their kids today. One of them was asking the other if their kids started school yet. Shortly after that, one of them mentioned that their four kids had to go to different schools. That is, four different schools, four different routes. I thought that was nuts, and then the other coworker said, "Oh yeah, I know how that is. My two kids (similar age) went to different schools..." So this is normal for people these days?! Whatever happened to just letting your kids walk to and from school?
I can't imagine how much time, energy, and fuel gets expended on that logistical mess every school day, just because they either feel like they can't tear their kids away from their old friends or because they feel like their kids need to be at "the best" schools.
I know there's a lot of problems with the way cities are laid out, but gawd, they're really buying into it, and that's part of the problem. At least that younger generation is supposed to as a whole be less into driving.
My oldest is starting school this year, and yeah, we're transporting her to a "better" school.
Translation: we're NOT signing up for a 45-minute drive to pick her up after school (or a bus that drops her off 2 hours before we get home from work, at age 5... um, no - our jobs are in the opposite direction of the school the district would bus her to), and are transporting her to the school that is 1km from my work instead, which logistically works much better. By doing so, she (and subsequently all our children) can go to a diverse school with well-trained teachers and multiple activities, instead of the school where, litereally, there's a wing built onto the side of the building to house the Social Services department, and the HS graduation rate is under 30%.
... So, yeah. While I wouldn't shuffle my kids to multiple different schools, I can definitely understand why parents look at the school closest to their house and go <uuuuum... no.>
I can relate to this. We live in a great district, but had briefly considered this really, really cool old Victorian place. But then we realized we'd have to mentally add $120k onto the price of the house to pay for private school because the school that was literally in sight of the house was just so bad. The house didn't seem like such a great deal then.
In theory, I support public schools and dislike private schools. Statistically, home education (like reading out loud) can make up for a (reasonably minor) gap in educational quality at school, no matter which school they go to.
But there's just a level of 'bad' that's... I can't put my kids in that environment. There's a difference between 'less affluent and less resources' (which, incidentally, is the school we're transporting out kids to, as compared to the school across town that is more affluent and has more resources but would be less multicultural and a huge detour - and statistically not much better) and actually, straight-up 'the teachers are dealing with trauma, drug and alcohol abuse, severe poverty, and more than 30% of the students are in and out of foster care and the trauma of instability and family separation that that entails, and that takes up so much educational time that they can't actually EDUCATE'. I can't make up for that, and I can't send my kids in that. Call me bourgeois, but.
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A couple of coworkers were discussing their kids today. One of them was asking the other if their kids started school yet. Shortly after that, one of them mentioned that their four kids had to go to different schools. That is, four different schools, four different routes. I thought that was nuts, and then the other coworker said, "Oh yeah, I know how that is. My two kids (similar age) went to different schools..." So this is normal for people these days?! Whatever happened to just letting your kids walk to and from school?
I can't imagine how much time, energy, and fuel gets expended on that logistical mess every school day, just because they either feel like they can't tear their kids away from their old friends or because they feel like their kids need to be at "the best" schools.
I know there's a lot of problems with the way cities are laid out, but gawd, they're really buying into it, and that's part of the problem. At least that younger generation is supposed to as a whole be less into driving.
My oldest is starting school this year, and yeah, we're transporting her to a "better" school.
Translation: we're NOT signing up for a 45-minute drive to pick her up after school (or a bus that drops her off 2 hours before we get home from work, at age 5... um, no - our jobs are in the opposite direction of the school the district would bus her to), and are transporting her to the school that is 1km from my work instead, which logistically works much better. By doing so, she (and subsequently all our children) can go to a diverse school with well-trained teachers and multiple activities, instead of the school where, litereally, there's a wing built onto the side of the building to house the Social Services department, and the HS graduation rate is under 30%.
... So, yeah. While I wouldn't shuffle my kids to multiple different schools, I can definitely understand why parents look at the school closest to their house and go <uuuuum... no.>
I can relate to this. We live in a great district, but had briefly considered this really, really cool old Victorian place. But then we realized we'd have to mentally add $120k onto the price of the house to pay for private school because the school that was literally in sight of the house was just so bad. The house didn't seem like such a great deal then.
In theory, I support public schools and dislike private schools. Statistically, home education (like reading out loud) can make up for a (reasonably minor) gap in educational quality at school, no matter which school they go to.
But there's just a level of 'bad' that's... I can't put my kids in that environment. There's a difference between 'less affluent and less resources' (which, incidentally, is the school we're transporting out kids to, as compared to the school across town that is more affluent and has more resources but would be less multicultural and a huge detour - and statistically not much better) and actually, straight-up 'the teachers are dealing with trauma, drug and alcohol abuse, severe poverty, and more than 30% of the students are in and out of foster care and the trauma of instability and family separation that that entails, and that takes up so much educational time that they can't actually EDUCATE'. I can't make up for that, and I can't send my kids in that. Call me bourgeois, but.
That's exactly the kind of situation that this would have been. My best friend teaches at the high school and nearly half of her 10th and 11th graders are functionally illiterate. How is she supposed to teach high school history if she's gotta teach basic reading skills too.
I will say that this particular school has recently gotten a fantastic career tech coordinator though. They've even set up a branch of the credit union I use at the school and hire some of the students to work as tellers during the day. The kids can open savings accounts and deposit paychecks. In quite a few cases, the kids might be the only one in their families to have a bank account and not use check cashing services.
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In a town of 10,000, aren't the schools close enough that all but the very youngest can just walk or bike to school?
No.
I grew up in a town of 13,000. Most of the town is very spaced out due to farmland and oil fields. Depending on where you live, it could require going down the highway to get to any school.
It blew my mind when a parent told me the school her middle school aged kids attended in WNC DOESN'T ALLOW STUDENTS TO WALK TO SCHOOL. Even the kid who lives across the street from the building gets picked up in a bus or has to be dropped of in a car. At the end of the day the students line up in the bus line or the car pick-up line. No one is allowed out of the building on foot. I know times change, but at that age I was working a part time job where people trusted me to take care of their kids outdoors, not being treated like I was unable to navigate a sidewalk on my own.
And that's a school policy that made sense to someone infantilizing and risk-averse, and isn't going to change without some fairly determined parental pushback.
And then people complain that kids/teenagers don't know how to handle things... when they're never allowed the opportunity to learn. And, yay: in 4-6 years, these are kids who are (assuming a standard progression of college-going or job-having) going to be driving cars, living on their own, etc... oh, THAT's a fun steep learning curve. No possibility for disaster THERE... (Sarcasm. So much sarcasm.)
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In a town of 10,000, aren't the schools close enough that all but the very youngest can just walk or bike to school?
No.
I grew up in a town of 13,000. Most of the town is very spaced out due to farmland and oil fields. Depending on where you live, it could require going down the highway to get to any school.
It blew my mind when a parent told me the school her middle school aged kids attended in WNC DOESN'T ALLOW STUDENTS TO WALK TO SCHOOL. Even the kid who lives across the street from the building gets picked up in a bus or has to be dropped of in a car. At the end of the day the students line up in the bus line or the car pick-up line. No one is allowed out of the building on foot. I know times change, but at that age I was working a part time job where people trusted me to take care of their kids outdoors, not being treated like I was unable to navigate a sidewalk on my own.
I think here that no one really says anything about a kid who shows up to school on foot, but it may be the same way in the afternoon. The problem is that they built the new elementary school right on the edge of one of the newer subdivisions which is full of younger families. Everyone who owned property there thought that this was a great idea until it was actually built and they realized how awful traffic was going to be. A lot of people have to walk their kids to school because they can't get out of their driveways.
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In a town of 10,000, aren't the schools close enough that all but the very youngest can just walk or bike to school?
Unfortunately no. The PreK-1 school doesn't allow kids to ride their bikes to school (unless a parent rides with them) as it has been a safety concern. The 2-5 school is 1.4 miles from our home, crosses the 3 busiest streets in town, and the most direct paths go through/around a college campus which makes for more distracted drivers overall and a ton of street parking which limits viability. Several of the kids that live on the south side of town do ride their bikes to the 2-5 school as they don't have to cross all the busy roads. Our town is also sprawling quite a bit with more new building on the far north, far west, and far east parts of town. We used to drop the kids off but each school has separate drop off times due to playground staffing. The hardest part was trying to pick them up on early dismissal days when all schools dismiss at the same time and one vehicle obviously could not be in different parts of town at the same time. Busing the kids has been a tremendous help for us with scheduling but it does come at a cost.
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I'm trying to imagine what the "3 busiest streets" in a town of 10,000 people look like...
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I'm trying to imagine what the "3 busiest streets" in a town of 10,000 people look like...
often small towns have the highway running through them and people 'forget' to slow down.
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In a town of 10,000, aren't the schools close enough that all but the very youngest can just walk or bike to school?
No.
I grew up in a town of 13,000. Most of the town is very spaced out due to farmland and oil fields. Depending on where you live, it could require going down the highway to get to any school.
It blew my mind when a parent told me the school her middle school aged kids attended in WNC DOESN'T ALLOW STUDENTS TO WALK TO SCHOOL. Even the kid who lives across the street from the building gets picked up in a bus or has to be dropped of in a car. At the end of the day the students line up in the bus line or the car pick-up line. No one is allowed out of the building on foot. I know times change, but at that age I was working a part time job where people trusted me to take care of their kids outdoors, not being treated like I was unable to navigate a sidewalk on my own.
Not personal experience, but I've heard of school systems that combined this rule with a minimum distance rule to be eligible for bussing. Parents of kids living within a mile or two of school were effectively required to drive their kids in and wait in the long drop-off/pick-up lines?!
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I'm trying to imagine what the "3 busiest streets" in a town of 10,000 people look like...
often small towns have the highway running through them and people 'forget' to slow down.
Do we wanna talk about the drunk drivers at 10am? Or is that just my small town?
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I'm trying to imagine what the "3 busiest streets" in a town of 10,000 people look like...
often small towns have the highway running through them and people 'forget' to slow down.
Do we wanna talk about the drunk drivers at 10am? Or is that just my small town?
Kids can be taught, certainly by 7th grade if not sooner, to watch out for traffic. I was walking to school in 2nd grade along with lots of other kids in my small town. It's not rocket science. Beware of Tiny Details Exaggeration Syndrome.
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I'm trying to imagine what the "3 busiest streets" in a town of 10,000 people look like...
often small towns have the highway running through them and people 'forget' to slow down.
Do we wanna talk about the drunk drivers at 10am? Or is that just my small town?
Kids can be taught, certainly by 7th grade if not sooner, to watch out for traffic. I was walking to school in 2nd grade along with lots of other kids in my small town. It's not rocket science. Beware of Tiny Details Exaggeration Syndrome.
I rode a bike everywhere in the small town I grew up in. On the busy street (we lived right on it), I was hit by a car on my bike when I was 12 from behind because the driver didn't see me. My sister was hit by one crossing the street at night by a car with no lights when she was 14.
You can teach kids all you want - most of them are still going to do stupid things. I'm certainly not advocating for not letting kids ride bikes or walk anywhere. But encouraging them to ride down busy streets generally isn't a good idea.
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I'm trying to imagine what the "3 busiest streets" in a town of 10,000 people look like...
often small towns have the highway running through them and people 'forget' to slow down.
Do we wanna talk about the drunk drivers at 10am? Or is that just my small town?
Kids can be taught, certainly by 7th grade if not sooner, to watch out for traffic. I was walking to school in 2nd grade along with lots of other kids in my small town. It's not rocket science. Beware of Tiny Details Exaggeration Syndrome.
I rode a bike everywhere in the small town I grew up in. On the busy street (we lived right on it), I was hit by a car on my bike when I was 12 from behind because the driver didn't see me. My sister was hit by one crossing the street at night by a car with no lights when she was 14.
You can teach kids all you want - most of them are still going to do stupid things. I'm certainly not advocating for not letting kids ride bikes or walk anywhere. But encouraging them to ride down busy streets generally isn't a good idea.
If there are no alternate routes, sure. If there are no sidewalks on the busy streets, sure.
But a whole lot of people panic about this for no good reason.
As a kid I would walk my bike where it wasn't safe to ride if there weren't better routes. Once the tough area was past I would remount and continue with my ride. It's not hard to teach that. If you actually spend time with your kids as they bike you'll get a good idea whether they are safe and responsible or not. Ditto if you later follow along behind them when they go off on their own the first time and don't let them see you doing it. That's what my mom and dad did when I wanted to bike farther away from home between 4th and 5th grade. If I had started acting in a reckless and inattentive manner my trip would have been promptly cut short.
Again, this isn't rocket science. If kids aren't taught to be responsible (part of which includes allowing them the ability not to be) at home they can't be expected to suddenly become responsible later. You have to grow them into it and monitor and correct their process. They aren't TVs that you just turn off when you're done interacting with them. They have to be taught.
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This thread digresses a lot! Make your kids walk to school in oncoming traffic, take them, make them ride this bus, do what you need to do.
Let's just get the damn kids to school and talk about stupid people we work with!
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This thread digresses a lot! Make your kids walk to school in oncoming traffic, take them, make them ride this bus, do what you need to do.
Let's just get the damn kids to school and talk about stupid people we work with!
Okay, here's another one:
So my boss mentioned that when he got married (for the second time), they spent over $20,000, but 'It's not *that bad* when you think about how much money other people spend on weddings.'
Uhh, okay, what? I think it is pretty bad. I don't really know if rationalizing a cost based off other people's budgets is a good thing either.
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Okay, here's another one:
So my boss mentioned that when he got married (for the second time), they spent over $20,000, but 'It's not *that bad* when you think about how much money other people spend on weddings.'
Uhh, okay, what? I think it is pretty bad. I don't really know if rationalizing a cost based off other people's budgets is a good thing either.
I remember my wife's friend spending $20k on just the wedding dress. A Vera Wang dress.
My wife spent around $250 for her dress. I think I married the right one :)
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I remember my wife's friend spending $20k on just the wedding dress. A Vera Wang dress.
WHAT?! Are you sure you didn't put an extra zero in there?
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Recent conversation with coworker...
Coworker: I’m ordering Starbucks. Would you like me to get you something?
Me: No thanks. I’m good.
Coworker: You don’t drink coffee?
Me: I do, but I prefer cold brew made from Cambodian beans.
Coworker: That’s delicious!
Me: Yup, and so easy to make! I make my coffee at home and drink it before I get to work.
Coworker: Oh, that’s so much work. I’m going to order on the Starbucks app and get them to deliver it to the office.
The local Starbucks knows coworker’s order by heart since they go in every morning for a coffee.
I, on the other hand, soak ground coffee in cold water in the fridge overnight, and the next morning, I have a lovely non-bitter, mellow, cold brew coffee. I bought a metal washable Thai coffee filter to strain the grounds. No coffee maker necessary.
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Recent conversation with coworker...
Coworker: I’m ordering Starbucks. Would you like me to get you something?
Me: No thanks. I’m good.
Coworker: You don’t drink coffee?
Me: I do, but I prefer cold brew made from Cambodian beans.
Coworker: That’s delicious!
Me: Yup, and so easy to make! I make my coffee at home and drink it before I get to work.
Coworker: Oh, that’s so much work. I’m going to order on the Starbucks app and get them to deliver it to the office.
The local Starbucks knows coworker’s order by heart since they go in every morning for a coffee.
I, on the other hand, soak ground coffee in cold water in the fridge overnight, and the next morning, I have a lovely non-bitter, mellow, cold brew coffee. I bought a metal washable Thai coffee filter to strain the grounds. No coffee maker necessary.
That sounds really good. Do you drink it cold? I imagine the people at starbucks get TONS of regulars. It cracks me up when someone walks in with an English muffin or something small. Like those at the grocery are cheaper for a whole pack than the one you bought!
We bought a box of Rural King K-cups. They aren't the best, but taste okay and nice to have a warm cup in the morning at work.
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Recent conversation with coworker...
Coworker: I’m ordering Starbucks. Would you like me to get you something?
Me: No thanks. I’m good.
Coworker: You don’t drink coffee?
Me: I do, but I prefer cold brew made from Cambodian beans.
Coworker: That’s delicious!
Me: Yup, and so easy to make! I make my coffee at home and drink it before I get to work.
Coworker: Oh, that’s so much work. I’m going to order on the Starbucks app and get them to deliver it to the office.
The local Starbucks knows coworker’s order by heart since they go in every morning for a coffee.
I, on the other hand, soak ground coffee in cold water in the fridge overnight, and the next morning, I have a lovely non-bitter, mellow, cold brew coffee. I bought a metal washable Thai coffee filter to strain the grounds. No coffee maker necessary.
That sounds really good. Do you drink it cold? I imagine the people at starbucks get TONS of regulars. It cracks me up when someone walks in with an English muffin or something small. Like those at the grocery are cheaper for a whole pack than the one you bought!
We bought a box of Rural King K-cups. They aren't the best, but taste okay and nice to have a warm cup in the morning at work.
It’s 35C (95F) here right now, so not only do I drink it cold, I drink it over ice. Come winter time, I’ll decrease the amount of water I use to increase the coffee concentration, then add hot water. My coworker will switch from Starbucks ice coffee with milk to Starbucks latte.
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Does cold brewed coffee have a different taste than cold coffee?
At the risk of sending insufFIcientfunds into another rage post by going off topic:
Had a former employee who continually complained about his pay. He rarely worked a full week; smoked about a pack a day (in NS, a pack of smokes is $12+). We have a maggot wagon (food truck) that shows up to our site every morning - truck owner let regulars run a tab. He would get breakfast and coffee and a few other odds and sods everyday. Each Friday he would settle his tab of between $40 and $50. His average take home pay was likely in the $400 range - at a minimum he was spending $130 per week on cigs and breakfast! Small consolation - he did contribute to the company matched RRSP each week.
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My eldest came home the other day and told us that their new team coworker was a big spender on food and smokes. Everyday. Despite their modest pay. And coworker's 35 mile commute in an older thirsty 4WD.
Ahhh, makes a Mom 'n Dad proud that the kiddo is paying attention to the world around them... ;)
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I remember my wife's friend spending $20k on just the wedding dress. A Vera Wang dress.
My wife spent around $250 for her dress. I think I married the right one :)
You sure did. 20k is a lot. Nosy me now wants to know if her friend really could 'afford' that!
Recent conversation with coworker...
Coworker: I’m ordering Starbucks. Would you like me to get you something?
Me: No thanks. I’m good.
Coworker: You don’t drink coffee?
Me: I do, but I prefer cold brew made from Cambodian beans.
Coworker: That’s delicious!
Me: Yup, and so easy to make! I make my coffee at home and drink it before I get to work.
Coworker: Oh, that’s so much work. I’m going to order on the Starbucks app and get them to deliver it to the office.
The local Starbucks knows coworker’s order by heart since they go in every morning for a coffee.
I, on the other hand, soak ground coffee in cold water in the fridge overnight, and the next morning, I have a lovely non-bitter, mellow, cold brew coffee. I bought a metal washable Thai coffee filter to strain the grounds. No coffee maker necessary.
People always want everything to be so convenient. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that line when I am getting out the fruity arils from a pomegranate at the office kitchen sink. Never fails to illicit a slew of unsolicited commentary. Yeah, it's a few minutes of 'work' but it's worth it. I wonder if your coworker ever even tried making coffee at home because it's really quite easy.
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It's something I've never understood - folks that don't "have time" to make coffee at home, so they stop on their way to work to pick it up. Two minutes tops to set up the coffee maker the night before (programmable ones can be had for $20), pour the coffee in the morning....even adding in washing the coffee pot and travel mug, it still has to be faster than going through the drive thru for coffee.....If if it cost the same (and we know if doesn't), making the coffee at home seems SO much easier and faster. Plus I know I washed my hands (bit of a germaphobe)
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This thread digresses a lot! Make your kids walk to school in oncoming traffic, take them, make them ride this bus, do what you need to do.
Let's just get the damn kids to school and talk about stupid people we work with!
Okay, here's another one:
So my boss mentioned that when he got married (for the second time), they spent over $20,000, but 'It's not *that bad* when you think about how much money other people spend on weddings.'
Uhh, okay, what? I think it is pretty bad. I don't really know if rationalizing a cost based off other people's budgets is a good thing either.
Depends on how many people there are. When my grandmother had her 75th birthday, there were more people than years - and only (extended) family. The party alone was nearly 6K I think, what with renting a big room, paying a buffet etc.
If you also pay for 100 people's hotel, for 2 or 3 nights, you might end up with 20K without trying.
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Unfortunately no. The PreK-1 school doesn't allow kids to ride their bikes to school (unless a parent rides with them) as it has been a safety concern. The 2-5 school is 1.4 miles from our home, crosses the 3 busiest streets in town, and the most direct paths go through/around a college campus which makes for more distracted drivers overall and a ton of street parking which limits viability. Several of the kids that live on the south side of town do ride their bikes to the 2-5 school as they don't have to cross all the busy roads. Our town is also sprawling quite a bit with more new building on the far north, far west, and far east parts of town. We used to drop the kids off but each school has separate drop off times due to playground staffing. The hardest part was trying to pick them up on early dismissal days when all schools dismiss at the same time and one vehicle obviously could not be in different parts of town at the same time. Busing the kids has been a tremendous help for us with scheduling but it does come at a cost.
This is just crazy to me. I used to walk home from elementary school. I had to cross a 6 lane road (it had a crosswalk).
It's no wonder everyone is so helpless nowadays. We put the kid gloves on until they're in their mid-20's and expect them to be well adapted.
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It's something I've never understood - folks that don't "have time" to make coffee at home, so they stop on their way to work to pick it up. Two minutes tops to set up the coffee maker the night before (programmable ones can be had for $20), pour the coffee in the morning....even adding in washing the coffee pot and travel mug, it still has to be faster than going through the drive thru for coffee.....If if it cost the same (and we know if doesn't), making the coffee at home seems SO much easier and faster. Plus I know I washed my hands (bit of a germaphobe)
Right? I'm wondering now how much my being an introvert has contributed to my frugality. For me, the process of driving to a place and waiting in line/in the drive-thru, having a superficial interaction with a total stranger, standing around with a bunch of other strangers, etc. is WAY less appealing to me than just making my own coffee.
I do on occasion go to a coffee shop, but on those rare occasions, I do it because I work from home and sometimes I just need to get out of the house and work somewhere else. In those instances, a $3 coffee drink is an acceptable amount to pay to "rent" a table for a while and have a slightly fancier hot beverage. (Not at Starbucks, though. Their coffee always tastes burnt, and the people who go there are loud and obnoxious in my experience.)
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Dude I work with is refinancing his home to roll outstanding debts he has into his mortgage. Don't know the specifics of how this works as I am an ignorant renter. We briefly talked about it and he was ho hum about his debt and knew that it was a problem he was doing this.
Cut to lunch time -
I don't have lunch this day and decide to use it on my 1x weekly lunch outing with this same guy. During lunch he says yeah, I could cut my lunch habit and save $350 a month but I don't want to... He does eat lunch out every single day and I know he eats out a lot outside of lunches.
I want to feel bad for the guy, but this is knowingly self-destructive behavior. I would shudder to see their monthly spend and how much is seeping out daily between him and his wife.
it is hard to feel sorry for someone that knows they're wasting $350/mth because he "doesn't want to".....I can see that brick wall coming up fast, but I don't want to take my foot off the gas.....
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I remember my wife's friend spending $20k on just the wedding dress. A Vera Wang dress.
My wife spent around $250 for her dress. I think I married the right one :)
You sure did. 20k is a lot. Nosy me now wants to know if her friend really could 'afford' that!
Recent conversation with coworker...
Coworker: I’m ordering Starbucks. Would you like me to get you something?
Me: No thanks. I’m good.
Coworker: You don’t drink coffee?
Me: I do, but I prefer cold brew made from Cambodian beans.
Coworker: That’s delicious!
Me: Yup, and so easy to make! I make my coffee at home and drink it before I get to work.
Coworker: Oh, that’s so much work. I’m going to order on the Starbucks app and get them to deliver it to the office.
The local Starbucks knows coworker’s order by heart since they go in every morning for a coffee.
I, on the other hand, soak ground coffee in cold water in the fridge overnight, and the next morning, I have a lovely non-bitter, mellow, cold brew coffee. I bought a metal washable Thai coffee filter to strain the grounds. No coffee maker necessary.
People always want everything to be so convenient. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that line when I am getting out the fruity arils from a pomegranate at the office kitchen sink. Never fails to illicit a slew of unsolicited commentary. Yeah, it's a few minutes of 'work' but it's worth it. I wonder if your coworker ever even tried making coffee at home because it's really quite easy.
Boss makes a dollar while I make a dime
That’s why I remove fruity arils from pomegranates on company time!
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People always want everything to be so convenient. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that line when I am getting out the fruity arils from a pomegranate at the office kitchen sink. Never fails to illicit a slew of unsolicited commentary. Yeah, it's a few minutes of 'work' but it's worth it. I wonder if your coworker ever even tried making coffee at home because it's really quite easy.
I want things to be convenient too.....and the older I get, the more 'convenient' I find it to cook at home than go out to a restaurant or pick up take out. The more 'convenient' I find it to pack a cooler with drinks and snacks when we go on a road trip compared to finding something somewhere on the road.
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Boss makes a dollar while I make a dime
That’s why I remove fruity arils from pomegranates on company time!
I love your haiku. <3
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People always want everything to be so convenient. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that line when I am getting out the fruity arils from a pomegranate at the office kitchen sink. Never fails to illicit a slew of unsolicited commentary. Yeah, it's a few minutes of 'work' but it's worth it. I wonder if your coworker ever even tried making coffee at home because it's really quite easy.
I want things to be convenient too.....and the older I get, the more 'convenient' I find it to cook at home than go out to a restaurant or pick up take out. The more 'convenient' I find it to pack a cooler with drinks and snacks when we go on a road trip compared to finding something somewhere on the road.
Right? I have friends who go out to eat with their kids almost every night. In Seattle, there are 30 minute waits every night of the week and 60+ on the weekends. I can't imagine sitting around in some loud lobby waiting to be seated for an hour, waiting for someone to take my order, cook it, etc. I can make something way faster and easier in 30 minutes, and multi-task, spend time with my kid, run a load of laundry, play with the dogs, etc. So much more convenient just to stay home.
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Boss makes a dollar while I make a dime
That’s why I remove fruity arils from pomegranates on company time!
I've found my new standard response for next time I'm having a pomegranate at work.
I want things to be convenient too.....and the older I get, the more 'convenient' I find it to cook at home than go out to a restaurant or pick up take out. The more 'convenient' I find it to pack a cooler with drinks and snacks when we go on a road trip compared to finding something somewhere on the road.
Yep, I'm with you. People always fail to understand the time component involved in eating out and being waited on. I think what they really want is not to have to manually go through the 'effort' of dishes, clean up, etc. But most people also have dishwashing machines, so they need to start practicing that thing where they say something isn't a priority instead of saying they don't have time for it.
I've also heard an argument from a coworker that they go out to eat because they "can't make it at home." I find that hard to believe that in this 'information age' where recipes are basically free with a simple internet search that they cannot figure out how to do something, lol.
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I've also heard an argument from a coworker that they go out to eat because they "can't make it at home." I find that hard to believe that in this 'information age' where recipes are basically free with a simple internet search that they cannot figure out how to do something, lol.
To be fair, there are a lot of things that are difficult to make at home. I've tried to make spring rolls, and egg drop soup, but they just don't come out like restaurant food. I make my own pizza every week, but you just can't replicate the effect of a real brick oven at 800F with a 400F home oven. I can't make sushi rice with that perfect sticky texture. My bagels never get that smooth shiny crust, and donuts just aren't the same if they aren't deep fat fried.
The difference being, of course, that I've tried to make those things, and learned that I don't have the tools or techniques to do it well. I've decided it's cheaper to buy the occasional donut, rather than buying and storing a deep fat fryer that would be used 2-3 times a year. I still make pizza and bagels, and just accept that they'll never be as good as commercial - and occasionally, we'll have a craving for really good pizza, and go out for it. But that makes it a special occasion when we do go, just a few times a year.
Now, if they're saying they can't make a burger or Olive Garden pasta, that's just laziness.
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Boss makes a dollar while I make a dime
That’s why I remove fruity arils from pomegranates on company time!
I've found my new standard response for next time I'm having a pomegranate at work.
I want things to be convenient too.....and the older I get, the more 'convenient' I find it to cook at home than go out to a restaurant or pick up take out. The more 'convenient' I find it to pack a cooler with drinks and snacks when we go on a road trip compared to finding something somewhere on the road.
Yep, I'm with you. People always fail to understand the time component involved in eating out and being waited on. I think what they really want is not to have to manually go through the 'effort' of dishes, clean up, etc. But most people also have dishwashing machines, so they need to start practicing that thing where they say something isn't a priority instead of saying they don't have time for it.
I've also heard an argument from a coworker that they go out to eat because they "can't make it at home." I find that hard to believe that in this 'information age' where recipes are basically free with a simple internet search that they cannot figure out how to do something, lol.
I will go out to eat if it's something that I genuinely cannot make as well or as cost-effectively at home. That's pretty much limited to sushi and authentic shawarma. I'm happy to support our good, locally owned restaurants a few times a year for those meals.
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I've also heard an argument from a coworker that they go out to eat because they "can't make it at home." I find that hard to believe that in this 'information age' where recipes are basically free with a simple internet search that they cannot figure out how to do something, lol.
To be fair, there are a lot of things that are difficult to make at home. I've tried to make spring rolls, and egg drop soup, but they just don't come out like restaurant food. I make my own pizza every week, but you just can't replicate the effect of a real brick oven at 800F with a 400F home oven. I can't make sushi rice with that perfect sticky texture. My bagels never get that smooth shiny crust, and donuts just aren't the same if they aren't deep fat fried.
The difference being, of course, that I've tried to make those things, and learned that I don't have the tools or techniques to do it well. I've decided it's cheaper to buy the occasional donut, rather than buying and storing a deep fat fryer that would be used 2-3 times a year. I still make pizza and bagels, and just accept that they'll never be as good as commercial - and occasionally, we'll have a craving for really good pizza, and go out for it. But that makes it a special occasion when we do go, just a few times a year.
Now, if they're saying they can't make a burger or Olive Garden pasta, that's just laziness.
While there are plenty of things that are a pain to make at home, egg drop soup is not one of them IMO. I think you just need a good recipe if its lacking the flavor you seek. I do one with chicken bouillon, soy sauce, chives (freeze dried or fresh), and sesame oil. Bring to boil, Pour in the beaten egg slowly while stirring. Maybe I’m missing something but it works for me.
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I love me a good Indian buffet. I can make most of those dishes, but at a buffet I can get a little bit of everything. Plus it’s really fast... no waiting. Price is usually ok at lunch, even if it’s 5 times the cost of making at home it’s still fun to go out occasionally
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I love me a good Indian buffet. I can make most of those dishes, but at a buffet I can get a little bit of everything. Plus it’s really fast... no waiting. Price is usually ok at lunch, even if it’s 5 times the cost of making at home it’s still fun to go out occasionally
I've heard that even folks of Indian decent go to Indian buffets, that alot of the foods on the menu are just too complicated or time consuming to make at home.
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I will go out to eat if it's something that I genuinely cannot make as well or as cost-effectively at home. That's pretty much limited to sushi and authentic shawarma. I'm happy to support our good, locally owned restaurants a few times a year for those meals.
I like to think I'm pretty good at cooking and it's a hobby, so I feel like it's that much of a trouble to me.
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Another bonus of eating in, or preparing at home, is limiting the paper, styrofoam etc packaging used in take out. I enjoy eating out, take out but the amount of waste bugs me (especially when they throw tons of those condiment packets into the bag without asking! my pet peeve).
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I will go out to eat if it's something that I genuinely cannot make as well or as cost-effectively at home. That's pretty much limited to sushi and authentic shawarma. I'm happy to support our good, locally owned restaurants a few times a year for those meals.
I like to think I'm pretty good at cooking and it's a hobby, so I feel like it's that much of a trouble to me.
Oh yeah, if we’re going there, I cook almost all meals from scratch. It’s a major hobby. Given the time (and lack of excessive heat as we don’t have central AC), I prefer to make fresh tortillas from masa, cook dried beans, braise my own pot roasts and carnitas, make marinara sauce in large batches from fresh Roma tomatoes, make my own curry blends, etc. Husband has a carbon steel wok and propane burner and makes all of our Asian stir-fries at home. It’s all good. I spent years learning how to bake gluten-free cakes and cookies that are largely indistinguishable from their wheat-filled counterparts. And thanks for reminding me that this is a good time to stock up on eggplant for homemade baba ganoush.
Still, I don’t have a good source of sushi-grade fish, nor am I willing to install the appropriate rotisserie/spit for proper shawarma since my house is only 950 sq. ft. My area also has a huge Middle Eastern population, so I’m happy to leave the shawarma to the experts with professional kitchens every 3 months or so.
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Not overheard but seen.
I make the same as another guy. I'm pretty certain he leases cars. He leased an expensive German luxury car and a few weeks ago came to work in a different luxury car. I don't know his home situation and how much his wife makes, but if it was just him I don't see how he affords the car. Since we both work for the government he has mandatory pension contributions, so at least that's good... but still, I just don't see how he can afford it. The lease payments have got to be like $500/month if not slightly more... it is a very nice car.
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I love me a good Indian buffet. I can make most of those dishes, but at a buffet I can get a little bit of everything. Plus it’s really fast... no waiting. Price is usually ok at lunch, even if it’s 5 times the cost of making at home it’s still fun to go out occasionally
I've heard that even folks of Indian decent go to Indian buffets, that alot of the foods on the menu are just too complicated or time consuming to make at home.
A lot of the food you get in Indian restaurants is nowhere near an ordinary Indian meal. It's festival and wedding food, or some bastardised version of that. Dhal makhani and roti, or some vegetable dishes are Indian staples. Moderately spiced, simple and quite often vegan.
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Unfortunately no. The PreK-1 school doesn't allow kids to ride their bikes to school (unless a parent rides with them) as it has been a safety concern. The 2-5 school is 1.4 miles from our home, crosses the 3 busiest streets in town, and the most direct paths go through/around a college campus which makes for more distracted drivers overall and a ton of street parking which limits viability. Several of the kids that live on the south side of town do ride their bikes to the 2-5 school as they don't have to cross all the busy roads. Our town is also sprawling quite a bit with more new building on the far north, far west, and far east parts of town. We used to drop the kids off but each school has separate drop off times due to playground staffing. The hardest part was trying to pick them up on early dismissal days when all schools dismiss at the same time and one vehicle obviously could not be in different parts of town at the same time. Busing the kids has been a tremendous help for us with scheduling but it does come at a cost.
This is just crazy to me. I used to walk home from elementary school. I had to cross a 6 lane road (it had a crosswalk).
It's no wonder everyone is so helpless nowadays. We put the kid gloves on until they're in their mid-20's and expect them to be well adapted.
I knew you Americans were crazy about cars but this kind of shocked me.
In my primary school, it was completely the other way round. Due to limited space in the vicinity of my primary school, parents were advised to only bring your kids to school by car if you lived more than 5km away from school and only let them bike if you lived more than 1km away. If you were closer you were supposed to walk. (I lived around 2km away so I could cycle to school)
And most kids walked and without parental supervision, not usually alone but with siblings or neighbourhood kids, the older ones looking after the younger ones. At dangerous crossings there were lollipop ladies. I live near a primary school now and while I see more kids dropped off by car, a lot of kids still walk to school.
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Does cold brewed coffee have a different taste than cold coffee?
Tastes exactly the same to me, but without the bitterness. But then I’m not a coffee connoisseur. The differences in taste comes from the beans used. The Cambodian ones I like kind of taste like chocolate.
And back on topic...
There is a furniture store two bus stops (20 min walk) away from where we live. Most expats here don’t have cars and don’t really know their way around town. So instead of mapping it and using GPS, the savvier ones will call a taxi for the five minute ride to the store. Or they will ask their company to provide a driver and van to drive them there, wait for them to shop, and then drive them home. The drivers charge on a per hour basis. I can’t remember the exact cost, but it was almost $200 for the day. Just to go window shopping at the mall.
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I will go out to eat if it's something that I genuinely cannot make as well or as cost-effectively at home. That's pretty much limited to sushi and authentic shawarma. I'm happy to support our good, locally owned restaurants a few times a year for those meals.
I like to think I'm pretty good at cooking and it's a hobby, so I feel like it's that much of a trouble to me.
Oh yeah, if we’re going there, I cook almost all meals from scratch. It’s a major hobby. Given the time (and lack of excessive heat as we don’t have central AC), I prefer to make fresh tortillas from masa, cook dried beans, braise my own pot roasts and carnitas, make marinara sauce in large batches from fresh Roma tomatoes, make my own curry blends, etc. Husband has a carbon steel wok and propane burner and makes all of our Asian stir-fries at home. It’s all good. I spent years learning how to bake gluten-free cakes and cookies that are largely indistinguishable from their wheat-filled counterparts. And thanks for reminding me that this is a good time to stock up on eggplant for homemade baba ganoush.
Still, I don’t have a good source of sushi-grade fish, nor am I willing to install the appropriate rotisserie/spit for proper shawarma since my house is only 950 sq. ft. My area also has a huge Middle Eastern population, so I’m happy to leave the shawarma to the experts with professional kitchens every 3 months or so.
Do you know for sure that your sushi provider has a good source of sushi grade fish? My DH sometimes catches fresh fish and I rather eat that as sushi than buying from a sushi store. But I'm generally sceptic. I guess you can rely on a sushi place's reputation.
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People always want everything to be so convenient. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that line when I am getting out the fruity arils from a pomegranate at the office kitchen sink. Never fails to illicit a slew of unsolicited commentary. Yeah, it's a few minutes of 'work' but it's worth it. I wonder if your coworker ever even tried making coffee at home because it's really quite easy.
I want things to be convenient too.....and the older I get, the more 'convenient' I find it to cook at home than go out to a restaurant or pick up take out. The more 'convenient' I find it to pack a cooler with drinks and snacks when we go on a road trip compared to finding something somewhere on the road.
Exactly. You know what's convenient? Going into the office and having the coffee already brewing. Or, on the weekends, rolling over and telling Alexa to make coffee. Yeah, I have to set it up and clean it out, but how hard is that, really?
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I will go out to eat if it's something that I genuinely cannot make as well or as cost-effectively at home. That's pretty much limited to sushi and authentic shawarma. I'm happy to support our good, locally owned restaurants a few times a year for those meals.
I like to think I'm pretty good at cooking and it's a hobby, so I feel like it's that much of a trouble to me.
Oh yeah, if we’re going there, I cook almost all meals from scratch. It’s a major hobby. Given the time (and lack of excessive heat as we don’t have central AC), I prefer to make fresh tortillas from masa, cook dried beans, braise my own pot roasts and carnitas, make marinara sauce in large batches from fresh Roma tomatoes, make my own curry blends, etc. Husband has a carbon steel wok and propane burner and makes all of our Asian stir-fries at home. It’s all good. I spent years learning how to bake gluten-free cakes and cookies that are largely indistinguishable from their wheat-filled counterparts. And thanks for reminding me that this is a good time to stock up on eggplant for homemade baba ganoush.
Still, I don’t have a good source of sushi-grade fish, nor am I willing to install the appropriate rotisserie/spit for proper shawarma since my house is only 950 sq. ft. My area also has a huge Middle Eastern population, so I’m happy to leave the shawarma to the experts with professional kitchens every 3 months or so.
I feel a Mustachian dinner party coming on.
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Graduate engineer at work (been working full-time about 6 months) has just bought a brand new Audi S4. Circa $72k here in Oz. Expensive move for someone that best case would be on $75-80k. I think he still lives at home with his parents so that's something.
There's more though. He's a graduate at a mining company. Meaning they get rotated through several roles to give them exposure to different departments, sites etc. Having been placed in head office for this rotation, he will be in a site role for at least one, probably both of his two remaining (8 month ish) rotations. Which means living in a sharehouse in the middle of nowhere with one sealed road in & out of town. Sharehouse is generally with other grads, and will almost certainly not have undercover parking for cars. Best case, might have one or two car spots to fight over. And the road to the mine (work) is always unsealed and rough as guts.
I'd say he hasn't really thought this through, but that was apparent the moment he bought the car...
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I will go out to eat if it's something that I genuinely cannot make as well or as cost-effectively at home. That's pretty much limited to sushi and authentic shawarma. I'm happy to support our good, locally owned restaurants a few times a year for those meals.
I like to think I'm pretty good at cooking and it's a hobby, so I feel like it's that much of a trouble to me.
Oh yeah, if we’re going there, I cook almost all meals from scratch. It’s a major hobby. Given the time (and lack of excessive heat as we don’t have central AC), I prefer to make fresh tortillas from masa, cook dried beans, braise my own pot roasts and carnitas, make marinara sauce in large batches from fresh Roma tomatoes, make my own curry blends, etc. Husband has a carbon steel wok and propane burner and makes all of our Asian stir-fries at home. It’s all good. I spent years learning how to bake gluten-free cakes and cookies that are largely indistinguishable from their wheat-filled counterparts. And thanks for reminding me that this is a good time to stock up on eggplant for homemade baba ganoush.
Still, I don’t have a good source of sushi-grade fish, nor am I willing to install the appropriate rotisserie/spit for proper shawarma since my house is only 950 sq. ft. My area also has a huge Middle Eastern population, so I’m happy to leave the shawarma to the experts with professional kitchens every 3 months or so.
I feel a Mustachian dinner party coming on.
That would be so much fun! I get tons of meal ideas from other posters here. I suspect we have many excellent home cooks on site.
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I will go out to eat if it's something that I genuinely cannot make as well or as cost-effectively at home. That's pretty much limited to sushi and authentic shawarma. I'm happy to support our good, locally owned restaurants a few times a year for those meals.
I like to think I'm pretty good at cooking and it's a hobby, so I feel like it's that much of a trouble to me.
Oh yeah, if we’re going there, I cook almost all meals from scratch. It’s a major hobby. Given the time (and lack of excessive heat as we don’t have central AC), I prefer to make fresh tortillas from masa, cook dried beans, braise my own pot roasts and carnitas, make marinara sauce in large batches from fresh Roma tomatoes, make my own curry blends, etc. Husband has a carbon steel wok and propane burner and makes all of our Asian stir-fries at home. It’s all good. I spent years learning how to bake gluten-free cakes and cookies that are largely indistinguishable from their wheat-filled counterparts. And thanks for reminding me that this is a good time to stock up on eggplant for homemade baba ganoush.
Still, I don’t have a good source of sushi-grade fish, nor am I willing to install the appropriate rotisserie/spit for proper shawarma since my house is only 950 sq. ft. My area also has a huge Middle Eastern population, so I’m happy to leave the shawarma to the experts with professional kitchens every 3 months or so.
Do you know for sure that your sushi provider has a good source of sushi grade fish? My DH sometimes catches fresh fish and I rather eat that as sushi than buying from a sushi store. But I'm generally sceptic. I guess you can rely on a sushi place's reputation.
We have a couple of good local places that we’ve been visiting for many years, and I trust them. I do tend to be skeptical about restaurants that I don’t know well.
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Graduate engineer at work (been working full-time about 6 months) has just bought a brand new Audi S4. Circa $72k here in Oz. Expensive move for someone that best case would be on $75-80k. I think he still lives at home with his parents so that's something.
There's more though. He's a graduate at a mining company. Meaning they get rotated through several roles to give them exposure to different departments, sites etc. Having been placed in head office for this rotation, he will be in a site role for at least one, probably both of his two remaining (8 month ish) rotations. Which means living in a sharehouse in the middle of nowhere with one sealed road in & out of town. Sharehouse is generally with other grads, and will almost certainly not have undercover parking for cars. Best case, might have one or two car spots to fight over. And the road to the mine (work) is always unsealed and rough as guts.
I'd say he hasn't really thought this through, but that was apparent the moment he bought the car...
That's a good one. Just thinking about driving a brand new S4 on corrugated dirt makes me cringe.
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Graduate engineer at work (been working full-time about 6 months) has just bought a brand new Audi S4. Circa $72k here in Oz. Expensive move for someone that best case would be on $75-80k. I think he still lives at home with his parents so that's something.
There's more though. He's a graduate at a mining company. Meaning they get rotated through several roles to give them exposure to different departments, sites etc. Having been placed in head office for this rotation, he will be in a site role for at least one, probably both of his two remaining (8 month ish) rotations. Which means living in a sharehouse in the middle of nowhere with one sealed road in & out of town. Sharehouse is generally with other grads, and will almost certainly not have undercover parking for cars. Best case, might have one or two car spots to fight over. And the road to the mine (work) is always unsealed and rough as guts.
I'd say he hasn't really thought this through, but that was apparent the moment he bought the car...
That's a good one. Just thinking about driving a brand new S4 on corrugated dirt makes me cringe.
Just watch, he'll have to buy a second "beater" care to take out there and keep the Audi in mom and dad's garage.
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A lot of the food you get in Indian restaurants is nowhere near an ordinary Indian meal. It's festival and wedding food, or some bastardised version of that. Dhal makhani and roti, or some vegetable dishes are Indian staples. Moderately spiced, simple and quite often vegan.
This sent me down a very pleasant rabbit hole reading about Dhal Makhani! Thank you. Now to convince my wife to eat a meal where most of the mass is beans and lentils.
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A lot of the food you get in Indian restaurants is nowhere near an ordinary Indian meal. It's festival and wedding food, or some bastardised version of that. Dhal makhani and roti, or some vegetable dishes are Indian staples. Moderately spiced, simple and quite often vegan.
This sent me down a very pleasant rabbit hole reading about Dhal Makhani! Thank you. Now to convince my wife to eat a meal where most of the mass is beans and lentils.
Western people eat far too much meat. In most of the world, a meat dish is padded out with vegetables, grains and pulses. Meat is expensive to raise and hard to catch. Now that we're entirely divorced from the effort of raising meat, we treat it like the meal and not an ingredient. If you want to do something for the planet, something actually tangible, something that will lower greenhouse gases, carbon footprints, reduce waste, contribute to animal welfare, open up land for growing and settlement and reforestation, eat less meat. If you are going to eat meat, eat the small species - small fish, not predators like tuna. Small animals like chickens that take less space and less time to grow. Go for goat instead of sheep or cow. And make sure they're free range. Have small amounts of very good quality meat, cooked with love.
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A lot of the food you get in Indian restaurants is nowhere near an ordinary Indian meal. It's festival and wedding food, or some bastardised version of that. Dhal makhani and roti, or some vegetable dishes are Indian staples. Moderately spiced, simple and quite often vegan.
This sent me down a very pleasant rabbit hole reading about Dhal Makhani! Thank you. Now to convince my wife to eat a meal where most of the mass is beans and lentils.
Western people eat far too much meat. In most of the world, a meat dish is padded out with vegetables, grains and pulses. Meat is expensive to raise and hard to catch. Now that we're entirely divorced from the effort of raising meat, we treat it like the meal and not an ingredient. If you want to do something for the planet, something actually tangible, something that will lower greenhouse gases, carbon footprints, reduce waste, contribute to animal welfare, open up land for growing and settlement and reforestation, eat less meat. If you are going to eat meat, eat the small species - small fish, not predators like tuna. Small animals like chickens that take less space and less time to grow. Go for goat instead of sheep or cow. And make sure they're free range. Have small amounts of very good quality meat, cooked with love.
Unfortunately modern farming practices for grains and legumes (I am familiar with soy) are just as damaging as CAFO is.
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A lot of the food you get in Indian restaurants is nowhere near an ordinary Indian meal. It's festival and wedding food, or some bastardised version of that. Dhal makhani and roti, or some vegetable dishes are Indian staples. Moderately spiced, simple and quite often vegan.
This sent me down a very pleasant rabbit hole reading about Dhal Makhani! Thank you. Now to convince my wife to eat a meal where most of the mass is beans and lentils.
Western people eat far too much meat. In most of the world, a meat dish is padded out with vegetables, grains and pulses. Meat is expensive to raise and hard to catch. Now that we're entirely divorced from the effort of raising meat, we treat it like the meal and not an ingredient. If you want to do something for the planet, something actually tangible, something that will lower greenhouse gases, carbon footprints, reduce waste, contribute to animal welfare, open up land for growing and settlement and reforestation, eat less meat. If you are going to eat meat, eat the small species - small fish, not predators like tuna. Small animals like chickens that take less space and less time to grow. Go for goat instead of sheep or cow. And make sure they're free range. Have small amounts of very good quality meat, cooked with love.
Unfortunately modern farming practices for grains and legumes (I am familiar with soy) are just as damaging as CAFO is.
I was thinking more of rice and lentils. Everyone already knows soy is costly to produce in terms of resources. It always has been. That's why there are so many asian recipes for preserving it and utilising it as a meat substitute.
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A lot of the food you get in Indian restaurants is nowhere near an ordinary Indian meal. It's festival and wedding food, or some bastardised version of that. Dhal makhani and roti, or some vegetable dishes are Indian staples. Moderately spiced, simple and quite often vegan.
This sent me down a very pleasant rabbit hole reading about Dhal Makhani! Thank you. Now to convince my wife to eat a meal where most of the mass is beans and lentils.
Western people eat far too much meat. In most of the world, a meat dish is padded out with vegetables, grains and pulses. Meat is expensive to raise and hard to catch. Now that we're entirely divorced from the effort of raising meat, we treat it like the meal and not an ingredient. If you want to do something for the planet, something actually tangible, something that will lower greenhouse gases, carbon footprints, reduce waste, contribute to animal welfare, open up land for growing and settlement and reforestation, eat less meat. If you are going to eat meat, eat the small species - small fish, not predators like tuna. Small animals like chickens that take less space and less time to grow. Go for goat instead of sheep or cow. And make sure they're free range. Have small amounts of very good quality meat, cooked with love.
Unfortunately modern farming practices for grains and legumes (I am familiar with soy) are just as damaging as CAFO is.
I was thinking more of rice and lentils. Everyone already knows soy is costly to produce in terms of resources. It always has been. That's why there are so many asian recipes for preserving it and utilising it as a meat substitute.
Rice and lentils are grains and legumes
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A lot of the food you get in Indian restaurants is nowhere near an ordinary Indian meal. It's festival and wedding food, or some bastardised version of that. Dhal makhani and roti, or some vegetable dishes are Indian staples. Moderately spiced, simple and quite often vegan.
This sent me down a very pleasant rabbit hole reading about Dhal Makhani! Thank you. Now to convince my wife to eat a meal where most of the mass is beans and lentils.
Western people eat far too much meat. In most of the world, a meat dish is padded out with vegetables, grains and pulses. Meat is expensive to raise and hard to catch. Now that we're entirely divorced from the effort of raising meat, we treat it like the meal and not an ingredient. If you want to do something for the planet, something actually tangible, something that will lower greenhouse gases, carbon footprints, reduce waste, contribute to animal welfare, open up land for growing and settlement and reforestation, eat less meat. If you are going to eat meat, eat the small species - small fish, not predators like tuna. Small animals like chickens that take less space and less time to grow. Go for goat instead of sheep or cow. And make sure they're free range. Have small amounts of very good quality meat, cooked with love.
Unfortunately modern farming practices for grains and legumes (I am familiar with soy) are just as damaging as CAFO is.
I was thinking more of rice and lentils. Everyone already knows soy is costly to produce in terms of resources. It always has been. That's why there are so many asian recipes for preserving it and utilising it as a meat substitute.
Rice and lentils are grains and legumes
Yes, I realise that, thanks for pointing that out. They're also grains and legumes that have traditionally been grown in large quantities to feed people in large quantities as a staple main food ingredient. I can't give you the numbers, but I believe they're easier and faster to grow than soy, which is predominantly used for oil and animal feed. It uses a huge amount of resources to grow and it doesn't even feed folk!
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Rice is not as good as you think, sadly, due to modern farming practices. Also incredibly water intensive.
https://www.earth.com/news/rice-farming-environmental-impact/
However, cultivation of rice requires a large amount of land and water and has the highest climate impact of any crop per unit calorie, according to an analysis released by the EDF.
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Rice is not as good as you think, sadly, due to modern farming practices. Also incredibly water intensive.
https://www.earth.com/news/rice-farming-environmental-impact/
However, cultivation of rice requires a large amount of land and water and has the highest climate impact of any crop per unit calorie, according to an analysis released by the EDF.
That's the thing. Rice doesn't need to grow in water. The water is used to prevent weeds growing. Now recalculate.....
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Rice is not as good as you think, sadly, due to modern farming practices. Also incredibly water intensive.
https://www.earth.com/news/rice-farming-environmental-impact/
However, cultivation of rice requires a large amount of land and water and has the highest climate impact of any crop per unit calorie, according to an analysis released by the EDF.
That's the thing. Rice doesn't need to grow in water. The water is used to prevent weeds growing. Now recalculate.....
But they do grow it in water. You'll note that Retiredat63 mentioned that modern farming practices can be as damaging as CAFO...
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At the risk of sending insufFIcientfunds into another rage post by going off topic:
I noticed this too. They registered in March and have 48 posts at this moment. Seems a tiny bit presumptuous to be disciplining people here. Maybe they don't realize we have awesome mods and they don't really need to be a self-appointed one. Who cares if a thread meanders a bit? If a response fails to hit the target, it's faster and easier just to skip it, IMO.
Also, huge props to @dragoncar for handling it so gracefully when he was called out. Messing with a dragon is always tricky.
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At the risk of sending insufFIcientfunds into another rage post by going off topic:
I noticed this too. They registered in March and have 48 posts at this moment. Seems a tiny bit presumptuous to be disciplining people here. Maybe they don't realize we have awesome mods and they don't really need to be a self-appointed one. Who cares if a thread meanders a bit? If a response fails to hit the target, it's faster and easier just to skip it, IMO.
Also, huge props to @dragoncar for handling it so gracefully when he was called out. Messing with a dragon is always tricky.
Because you end up crispy and nice tasting with ketchup?
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At my office, I heard this:
"Everyone should go to law school."
Pretty sure everyone already is. It's part of the problem.
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At the risk of sending insufFIcientfunds into another rage post by going off topic:
I noticed this too. They registered in March and have 48 posts at this moment. Seems a tiny bit presumptuous to be disciplining people here. Maybe they don't realize we have awesome mods and they don't really need to be a self-appointed one. Who cares if a thread meanders a bit? If a response fails to hit the target, it's faster and easier just to skip it, IMO.
Also, huge props to @dragoncar for handling it so gracefully when he was called out. Messing with a dragon is always tricky.
Because you end up crispy and nice tasting with ketchup?
Even without ketchup would be my guess.
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I have to say I have never regretted getting a degree in law, it's really useful in daily life as well as in my line of work and in my country it's not as expensive as it is in the US. But there are far too many mediocre lawyers already, we certainly don't need more.
One of my coworkers is currently pushing their kid to go and get a college degree while they already know this will be really difficult for the kid. There is absolutely no shame in learning a trade or getting a vocational degree if you're more talented for practical work rather than theoretical work. It's certainly much better than struggling through college and then having difficulty performing in the workplace while they could maybe be a very good electrician or plumber (and those people make €€€ nowadays!).
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At the risk of sending insufFIcientfunds into another rage post by going off topic:
I noticed this too. They registered in March and have 48 posts at this moment. Seems a tiny bit presumptuous to be disciplining people here. Maybe they don't realize we have awesome mods and they don't really need to be a self-appointed one. Who cares if a thread meanders a bit? If a response fails to hit the target, it's faster and easier just to skip it, IMO.
Also, huge props to @dragoncar for handling it so gracefully when he was called out. Messing with a dragon is always tricky.
was not meant to call anyone out. sorry if it came off that way, wont happen again.
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At the risk of sending insufFIcientfunds into another rage post by going off topic:
I noticed this too. They registered in March and have 48 posts at this moment. Seems a tiny bit presumptuous to be disciplining people here. Maybe they don't realize we have awesome mods and they don't really need to be a self-appointed one. Who cares if a thread meanders a bit? If a response fails to hit the target, it's faster and easier just to skip it, IMO.
Also, huge props to @dragoncar for handling it so gracefully when he was called out. Messing with a dragon is always tricky.
was not meant to call anyone out. sorry if it came off that way, wont happen again.
Apology appreciated. I just don't want you to be eaten by a dragon so early in your FIRE journey. That would be terrible. And probably quite painful, especially without ketchup.
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At the risk of sending insufFIcientfunds into another rage post by going off topic:
I noticed this too. They registered in March and have 48 posts at this moment. Seems a tiny bit presumptuous to be disciplining people here. Maybe they don't realize we have awesome mods and they don't really need to be a self-appointed one. Who cares if a thread meanders a bit? If a response fails to hit the target, it's faster and easier just to skip it, IMO.
Also, huge props to @dragoncar for handling it so gracefully when he was called out. Messing with a dragon is always tricky.
was not meant to call anyone out. sorry if it came off that way, wont happen again.
Apology appreciated. I just don't want you to be eaten by a dragon so early in your FIRE journey. That would be terrible. And probably quite painful, especially without ketchup.
Forget being eaten by the dragon. I can see what the dragon is doing to that car in the avatar.
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At my office, I heard this:
"Everyone should go to law school."
Pretty sure everyone already is. It's part of the problem.
Like @Imma , I've never regretted my law degree. In fact, I may have said something similar to your co-worker's comment in the past, Fella. Not saying that everyone should be a lawyer, but that first year (first semester, especially) is so incredibly informative (and quite honestly not that difficult to learn) that I remember wishing that they had covered lots of it in middle or high school Civics classes.
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I imagine a lot comes down to tuition and opportunity cost. An acquaintance who went to law school in the US had a lot to say on the subject of how law school was a big scam here, costing a ton and promising big salaries when most just graduated with a ton of debt and had a hard time finding a mediocre job.
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I imagine a lot comes down to tuition and opportunity cost. An acquaintance who went to law school in the US had a lot to say on the subject of how law school was a big scam here, costing a ton and promising big salaries when most just graduated with a ton of debt and had a hard time finding a mediocre job.
I imagine the point is that everyone should have a basic legal education. If everyone took a constitutional law class we’d be better off as a society
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I love me a good Indian buffet. I can make most of those dishes, but at a buffet I can get a little bit of everything. Plus it’s really fast... no waiting. Price is usually ok at lunch, even if it’s 5 times the cost of making at home it’s still fun to go out occasionally
I've heard that even folks of Indian decent go to Indian buffets, that alot of the foods on the menu are just too complicated or time consuming to make at home.
A lot of the food you get in Indian restaurants is nowhere near an ordinary Indian meal. It's festival and wedding food, or some bastardised version of that. Dhal makhani and roti, or some vegetable dishes are Indian staples. Moderately spiced, simple and quite often vegan.
Correcto!
Indian buffet is a misnomer. It's either Mughlai (North Indian) or South Indian. Very rarely you'll have a Gujarati buffet (more common in NYC/NJ or parts of London). Or you'll have Bengali cuisine (India/Bangladesh). In South Indian cuisine, it can vary from Goan to Madras.
Any Indian buffet/restaurant food is very rich. Even my Punjabi/North Indian friends don't eat that on a daily basis.
I'm of Gujarati descent; the thalis in restaurants consist of wedding/festival fare.
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I love me a good Indian buffet. I can make most of those dishes, but at a buffet I can get a little bit of everything. Plus it’s really fast... no waiting. Price is usually ok at lunch, even if it’s 5 times the cost of making at home it’s still fun to go out occasionally
I've heard that even folks of Indian decent go to Indian buffets, that alot of the foods on the menu are just too complicated or time consuming to make at home.
A lot of the food you get in Indian restaurants is nowhere near an ordinary Indian meal. It's festival and wedding food, or some bastardised version of that. Dhal makhani and roti, or some vegetable dishes are Indian staples. Moderately spiced, simple and quite often vegan.
Correcto!
Indian buffet is a misnomer. It's either Mughlai (North Indian) or South Indian. Very rarely you'll have a Gujarati buffet (more common in NYC/NJ or parts of London). Or you'll have Bengali cuisine (India/Bangladesh). In South Indian cuisine, it can vary from Goan to Madras.
Any Indian buffet/restaurant food is very rich. Even my Punjabi/North Indian friends don't eat that on a daily basis.
I'm of Gujarati descent; the thalis in restaurants consist of wedding/festival fare.
Actually I was talking about Ohlone cuisine (https://www.makamham.com/cafeohlone)... try the acorn bread!
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A work friend of mine - who is lovely - sends her children to private schools, even though she really can't afford it. She earns a slightly above average income, but her husband's been unemployed for a long time and has only just got a job. They've taken out a second mortgage to afford it, even though they're in the catchment area for a really well respected, high performing and sought after public school. Then she says that she struggles to afford the private school and is annoyed that people think that private school kids are privileged.
It's just weird to me. If you have to struggle to do it, and there's no REASON to do it, why are you doing it? I also think that some people struggle to just get food on the table and a roof over their heads, so I will reserve most of my sympathy for them, as opposed to (lovely but misguided) people who are basically living above their means.
Can't really say that, though. But when she says things like "Should I keep them in private school?", I say "You don't have to, the other school's a really good option."
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A work friend of mine - who is lovely - sends her children to private schools, even though she really can't afford it. She earns a slightly above average income, but her husband's been unemployed for a long time and has only just got a job. They've taken out a second mortgage to afford it, even though they're in the catchment area for a really well respected, high performing and sought after public school. Then she says that she struggles to afford the private school and is annoyed that people think that private school kids are privileged.
It's just weird to me. If you have to struggle to do it, and there's no REASON to do it, why are you doing it? I also think that some people struggle to just get food on the table and a roof over their heads, so I will reserve most of my sympathy for them, as opposed to (lovely but misguided) people who are basically living above their means.
Can't really say that, though. But when she says things like "Should I keep them in private school?", I say "You don't have to, the other school's a really good option."
People get very emotional about their kid's education. I've looked at private schools myself, and even though we can well afford it, I just don't want to go down that rabbit hole. What has helped me avoid that expense is a) my older one would not be accepted into most regular private schools because of his special needs and b) I've heard some not so nice things about extreme snobbiness from parents whose kids have attended private schools near us.
I can totally understand the draw though, especially since I work part time as an educational consultant. Especially when it's a place where your child is spending most of their waking hours five days a week. I haven't yet found a totally convincing argument against private education for friends who have this emotional want for it for their kids.
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I can understand private school when it fills a clear need that public does not. The public closest to us is 80% English language learners/subsidized or free lunch, so most parents who are more affluent and educated choose something else for their kids. Whether there really is a need there or not, I have no personal experience. I could be convinced that if the majority of the school population has one set of needs and your kid has a different set of needs, the kid may be netter served elsewhere. Who knows?
The second biggest need in my area that sends kids to private school is language immersion. We have a pretty diverse set of neighbors who send their kids to school in Spanish, German, French, and Mandarin. We are lucky to have found a public Mandarin program but no French or German in public yet. With one kid it probably doesn’t make a big difference but once you have two or three kids, it seems to me you would be better off selling and moving someplace that offers what you need in the public system, even if you have to pay a good bit more for housing there.
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I can understand private school when it fills a clear need that public does not. The public closest to us is 80% English language learners/subsidized or free lunch, so most parents who are more affluent and educated choose something else for their kids. Whether there really is a need there or not, I have no personal experience. I could be convinced that if the majority of the school population has one set of needs and your kid has a different set of needs, the kid may be netter served elsewhere. Who knows?
The second biggest need in my area that sends kids to private school is language immersion. We have a pretty diverse set of neighbors who send their kids to school in Spanish, German, French, and Mandarin. We are lucky to have found a public Mandarin program but no French or German in public yet. With one kid it probably doesn’t make a big difference but once you have two or three kids, it seems to me you would be better off selling and moving someplace that offers what you need in the public system, even if you have to pay a good bit more for housing there.
I don't understand why parents would, on the one hand, not want their children to go to school with bilingual kids ("English language learners") and then on the other hand send their kids to an immersion school where those same kids will be be bilingual and going to school in a language that they themselves are weak in ie they will be "Mandarin language learners" or whatever.
Although my kids were born here in Italy I guess you could say that they are Italian language learners as we speak 90% English at home and most media, reading etc is in English. My kids go to a heavily immigrant school and the majority of kids in both of their classes are "Italian language learners" just like my kids. I see no negative side to this. IMO bilingualism is a strength not a weakness. I'm glad my kids are bilingual and I'm glad that they go to school with kids who speak a zillion different languages at home. The kids who get the best grades in the class in Italian are both bilingual BTW.
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I can understand private school when it fills a clear need that public does not. The public closest to us is 80% English language learners/subsidized or free lunch, so most parents who are more affluent and educated choose something else for their kids. Whether there really is a need there or not, I have no personal experience. I could be convinced that if the majority of the school population has one set of needs and your kid has a different set of needs, the kid may be netter served elsewhere. Who knows?
The second biggest need in my area that sends kids to private school is language immersion. We have a pretty diverse set of neighbors who send their kids to school in Spanish, German, French, and Mandarin. We are lucky to have found a public Mandarin program but no French or German in public yet. With one kid it probably doesn’t make a big difference but once you have two or three kids, it seems to me you would be better off selling and moving someplace that offers what you need in the public system, even if you have to pay a good bit more for housing there.
I don't understand why parents would, on the one hand, not want their children to go to school with bilingual kids ("English language learners") and then on the other hand send their kids to an immersion school where those same kids will be be bilingual and going to school in a language that they themselves are weak in ie they will be "Mandarin language learners" or whatever.
Although my kids were born here in Italy I guess you could say that they are Italian language learners as we speak 90% English at home and most media, reading etc is in English. My kids go to a heavily immigrant school and the majority of kids in both of their classes are "Italian language learners" just like my kids. I see no negative side to this. IMO bilingualism is a strength not a weakness. I'm glad my kids are bilingual and I'm glad that they go to school with kids who speak a zillion different languages at home. The kids who get the best grades in the class in Italian are both bilingual BTW.
I don't agree with the argument, but I believe it goes something like: At a majority ESL school, the teachers will be spending more time and attention on the students who are having trouble with English, therefore the English speakers will get less focus and less help from the teachers. When the teacher has to help other students understand the words in a math word problem, they will have less time to help those who understand the words, but need help with the math. Whereas in an immersion program, all the students are at the same level and learning together, so your child will receive an equal portion of help.
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I can understand private school when it fills a clear need that public does not. The public closest to us is 80% English language learners/subsidized or free lunch, so most parents who are more affluent and educated choose something else for their kids. Whether there really is a need there or not, I have no personal experience. I could be convinced that if the majority of the school population has one set of needs and your kid has a different set of needs, the kid may be netter served elsewhere. Who knows?
The second biggest need in my area that sends kids to private school is language immersion. We have a pretty diverse set of neighbors who send their kids to school in Spanish, German, French, and Mandarin. We are lucky to have found a public Mandarin program but no French or German in public yet. With one kid it probably doesn’t make a big difference but once you have two or three kids, it seems to me you would be better off selling and moving someplace that offers what you need in the public system, even if you have to pay a good bit more for housing there.
I don't understand why parents would, on the one hand, not want their children to go to school with bilingual kids ("English language learners") and then on the other hand send their kids to an immersion school where those same kids will be be bilingual and going to school in a language that they themselves are weak in ie they will be "Mandarin language learners" or whatever.
Although my kids were born here in Italy I guess you could say that they are Italian language learners as we speak 90% English at home and most media, reading etc is in English. My kids go to a heavily immigrant school and the majority of kids in both of their classes are "Italian language learners" just like my kids. I see no negative side to this. IMO bilingualism is a strength not a weakness. I'm glad my kids are bilingual and I'm glad that they go to school with kids who speak a zillion different languages at home. The kids who get the best grades in the class in Italian are both bilingual BTW.
I don't agree with the argument, but I believe it goes something like: At a majority ESL school, the teachers will be spending more time and attention on the students who are having trouble with English, therefore the English speakers will get less focus and less help from the teachers. When the teacher has to help other students understand the words in a math word problem, they will have less time to help those who understand the words, but need help with the math. Whereas in an immersion program, all the students are at the same level and learning together, so your child will receive an equal portion of help.
I know you don't agree with it but as a parent to two bilingual kids, I think this shows a fundamental misunderstanding of bilingualism - and probably covers for a lot of racism/classism as well.
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I can understand private school when it fills a clear need that public does not. The public closest to us is 80% English language learners/subsidized or free lunch, so most parents who are more affluent and educated choose something else for their kids. Whether there really is a need there or not, I have no personal experience. I could be convinced that if the majority of the school population has one set of needs and your kid has a different set of needs, the kid may be netter served elsewhere. Who knows?
The second biggest need in my area that sends kids to private school is language immersion. We have a pretty diverse set of neighbors who send their kids to school in Spanish, German, French, and Mandarin. We are lucky to have found a public Mandarin program but no French or German in public yet. With one kid it probably doesn’t make a big difference but once you have two or three kids, it seems to me you would be better off selling and moving someplace that offers what you need in the public system, even if you have to pay a good bit more for housing there.
I don't understand why parents would, on the one hand, not want their children to go to school with bilingual kids ("English language learners") and then on the other hand send their kids to an immersion school where those same kids will be be bilingual and going to school in a language that they themselves are weak in ie they will be "Mandarin language learners" or whatever.
Although my kids were born here in Italy I guess you could say that they are Italian language learners as we speak 90% English at home and most media, reading etc is in English. My kids go to a heavily immigrant school and the majority of kids in both of their classes are "Italian language learners" just like my kids. I see no negative side to this. IMO bilingualism is a strength not a weakness. I'm glad my kids are bilingual and I'm glad that they go to school with kids who speak a zillion different languages at home. The kids who get the best grades in the class in Italian are both bilingual BTW.
I don't agree with the argument, but I believe it goes something like: At a majority ESL school, the teachers will be spending more time and attention on the students who are having trouble with English, therefore the English speakers will get less focus and less help from the teachers. When the teacher has to help other students understand the words in a math word problem, they will have less time to help those who understand the words, but need help with the math. Whereas in an immersion program, all the students are at the same level and learning together, so your child will receive an equal portion of help.
I know you don't agree with it but as a parent to two bilingual kids, I think this shows a fundamental misunderstanding of bilingualism - and probably covers for a lot of racism/classism as well.
I suppose the question is, are the other kids actually fully bilingual, or are they just learning English for the first time? I suspect the perception is the latter, while reality is the former.
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I can understand private school when it fills a clear need that public does not. The public closest to us is 80% English language learners/subsidized or free lunch, so most parents who are more affluent and educated choose something else for their kids. Whether there really is a need there or not, I have no personal experience. I could be convinced that if the majority of the school population has one set of needs and your kid has a different set of needs, the kid may be netter served elsewhere. Who knows?
The second biggest need in my area that sends kids to private school is language immersion. We have a pretty diverse set of neighbors who send their kids to school in Spanish, German, French, and Mandarin. We are lucky to have found a public Mandarin program but no French or German in public yet. With one kid it probably doesn’t make a big difference but once you have two or three kids, it seems to me you would be better off selling and moving someplace that offers what you need in the public system, even if you have to pay a good bit more for housing there.
I see these kinds of sentiments a lot and I'm only speaking up about it because this was the topic of my dissertation so it is one that I am very well educated about. The ESL issue may be one thing, but the % of low income students should not be a deterrent. The fact that middle and high income students flock to private schools are why the public school systems seem so bad. First, when all of the parents who really care strongly about education put their kids in private schools, there is no one to advocate for the students and hold the schools accountable at the public level, which ends up hurting all of the kids. Second, there have been extensive studies that have shown a child with dedicated, committed parents will do well in school regardless of whether they are in a private school, a top public school, or the worst public school in the county. So individually, if you are a committed parent you shouldn't be worried about school rankings and average test scores. If more higher income committed parents were spread among the school system instead of being clumped in the highest performing public and private schools, all students would benefit and the average scores for all of the schools would rise as a result.
Not saying this to you personally - I've just been seeing too many posts on here and on social media about this lately - but unfortunately in the US we have this idea of "I've got mine, screw you" instead of an idea of community where my child going to a low income school would help benefit all of the students in that community. Also - I don't have empirical evidence on this but I strongly believe that children grow up to be kinder, more well rounded citizens if they are exposed to others from all kinds of backgrounds, instead of having them only interact with other kids who are of their same income level and race/ethnicity. I understand that in a school with a high % of ESL learners the teachers will be spending a lot more attention on the ESL students, but going back to the idea that having committed parents will help the children succeed regardless, being exposed to ESL students is an overall win in my book.
I went to a public school that didn't have a lot of resources so there was only one foreign language option, no AP classes, etc. The higher income families in our area who cared about those kinds of things sent their kids to the private school so there was no one to advocate for those kinds of classes in the public school (the only option for a public school in our rural area) and there weren't any higher income families to help with fundraising to try and give more resources to the school.
Interestingly, countries that have outright banned private schools and made them illegal have much higher rates of literacy and educational attainment and enrichment across the board, regardless of family income levels.
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I see these kinds of sentiments a lot and I'm only speaking up about it because this was the topic of my dissertation so it is one that I am very well educated about. The ESL issue may be one thing, but the % of low income students should not be a deterrent. The fact that middle and high income students flock to private schools are why the public school systems seem so bad. First, when all of the parents who really care strongly about education put their kids in private schools, there is no one to advocate for the students and hold the schools accountable at the public level, which ends up hurting all of the kids. Second, there have been extensive studies that have shown a child with dedicated, committed parents will do well in school regardless of whether they are in a private school, a top public school, or the worst public school in the county. So individually, if you are a committed parent you shouldn't be worried about school rankings and average test scores. If more higher income committed parents were spread among the school system instead of being clumped in the highest performing public and private schools, all students would benefit and the average scores for all of the schools would rise as a result.
Not saying this to you personally - I've just been seeing too many posts on here and on social media about this lately - but unfortunately in the US we have this idea of "I've got mine, screw you" instead of an idea of community where my child going to a low income school would help benefit all of the students in that community. Also - I don't have empirical evidence on this but I strongly believe that children grow up to be kinder, more well rounded citizens if they are exposed to others from all kinds of backgrounds, instead of having them only interact with other kids who are of their same income level and race/ethnicity. I understand that in a school with a high % of ESL learners the teachers will be spending a lot more attention on the ESL students, but going back to the idea that having committed parents will help the children succeed regardless, being exposed to ESL students is an overall win in my book.
I went to a public school that didn't have a lot of resources so there was only one foreign language option, no AP classes, etc. The higher income families in our area who cared about those kinds of things sent their kids to the private school so there was no one to advocate for those kinds of classes in the public school (the only option for a public school in our rural area) and there weren't any higher income families to help with fundraising to try and give more resources to the school.
Interestingly, countries that have outright banned private schools and made them illegal have much higher rates of literacy and educational attainment and enrichment across the board, regardless of family income levels.
That's great and all, and in theory I would agree with you. If I had my way, we'd have no private schools or charter schools.
In my reality, however, when my son was faced with the choice between our local middle school and charter school (akin to private in the demographics), I gave it serious thought but in the end we opted for the charter school. There were two things I could not get past about the local public middle school: 1) the percentage of kids who passed the standardized tests was 30% and 2) the number of fights that were reported to the police during the last school year on record was 57. Fifty-seven fights bad enough to call the cops in 180 days. That's more than once per week. You know how google gives suggestions when you start to type a search term? The first suggestion for this school's name was "this particular public middle school fights." Sorry, not sorry.
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Not overheard but seen.
I make the same as another guy. I'm pretty certain he leases cars. He leased an expensive German luxury car and a few weeks ago came to work in a different luxury car. I don't know his home situation and how much his wife makes, but if it was just him I don't see how he affords the car. Since we both work for the government he has mandatory pension contributions, so at least that's good... but still, I just don't see how he can afford it. The lease payments have got to be like $500/month if not slightly more... it is a very nice car.
Russian spy payroll? (I'm being silly)
There are more than a few stories of people who think conspicuous spending above and beyond what is normal for their government income level will never be noticed. Some time later they are revealed to be working for the "other side".
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Hey! Some good news. Heard one of the youngins say that once their pickup truck was repaired they were selling it and buying a little used four cylinder gas sipper. Tired of buying lots of gasoline and the payments. Something makes me believe that they are serious and that the idea will be followed by action.
Visited with that youngin the other day. Did indeed sell the thirsty truck for the gas sipper car. All smiles!
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There was a conversation with coworkers involving cars today.
One of them has a stick shift car, and the intern was commenting on it, saying things like, "That's so cool! I want to learn to drive stick shift. I want a get a stick shift because then no one could steal it. I've been trying to find a car, it's sooo hard!" I really wanted to tell her not to get a car and save her money, but she seemed pretty set on the idea that she 'needed' a car. She has been carpooling to work with another intern.
Owner of said car continued enthusing over it, saying how it took forever for him to find this model and when he found the dealership that had it, drove several hours to retrieve it. I can tell it's a bit nicer than what he can probably afford, bigger-picture-wise, with leather seats and all. He always comes in with a sugary Starbucks beverage and pastry, every single morning, today included. Then complains he still has student loan debt and that he is putting on weight. I know he doesn't get paid very much. So the financial choices are... interesting.
The whole time, it was all I can do not to blurt out something along the lines of, "Who the hell cares if it's stick-shift or not as long as the car works? They're both money pits anyway!" (I'm not into cars even remotely.)
Thankfully, one other coworker commented that she never had to buy a car and enjoys not having to deal with car-related expenses. There are some smart cookies, after all.
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Not overheard but seen.
I make the same as another guy. I'm pretty certain he leases cars. He leased an expensive German luxury car and a few weeks ago came to work in a different luxury car. I don't know his home situation and how much his wife makes, but if it was just him I don't see how he affords the car. Since we both work for the government he has mandatory pension contributions, so at least that's good... but still, I just don't see how he can afford it. The lease payments have got to be like $500/month if not slightly more... it is a very nice car.
Or embezzling. But probably not the case if this person is in fact leasing the car.
Russian spy payroll? (I'm being silly)
There are more than a few stories of people who think conspicuous spending above and beyond what is normal for their government income level will never be noticed. Some time later they are revealed to be working for the "other side".
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I can understand private school when it fills a clear need that public does not. The public closest to us is 80% English language learners/subsidized or free lunch, so most parents who are more affluent and educated choose something else for their kids. Whether there really is a need there or not, I have no personal experience. I could be convinced that if the majority of the school population has one set of needs and your kid has a different set of needs, the kid may be netter served elsewhere. Who knows?
The second biggest need in my area that sends kids to private school is language immersion. We have a pretty diverse set of neighbors who send their kids to school in Spanish, German, French, and Mandarin. We are lucky to have found a public Mandarin program but no French or German in public yet. With one kid it probably doesn’t make a big difference but once you have two or three kids, it seems to me you would be better off selling and moving someplace that offers what you need in the public system, even if you have to pay a good bit more for housing there.
I don't understand why parents would, on the one hand, not want their children to go to school with bilingual kids ("English language learners") and then on the other hand send their kids to an immersion school where those same kids will be be bilingual and going to school in a language that they themselves are weak in ie they will be "Mandarin language learners" or whatever.
Although my kids were born here in Italy I guess you could say that they are Italian language learners as we speak 90% English at home and most media, reading etc is in English. My kids go to a heavily immigrant school and the majority of kids in both of their classes are "Italian language learners" just like my kids. I see no negative side to this. IMO bilingualism is a strength not a weakness. I'm glad my kids are bilingual and I'm glad that they go to school with kids who speak a zillion different languages at home. The kids who get the best grades in the class in Italian are both bilingual BTW.
It's the culture and poverty that comes with 80% sub lunches and english language learners. Bad personal habits of the parents, gangs, drug use, property crime, violence. Bilingualism for the win, but cultural issues make it a net loss all the way around.
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Not overheard but seen.
I make the same as another guy. I'm pretty certain he leases cars. He leased an expensive German luxury car and a few weeks ago came to work in a different luxury car. I don't know his home situation and how much his wife makes, but if it was just him I don't see how he affords the car. Since we both work for the government he has mandatory pension contributions, so at least that's good... but still, I just don't see how he can afford it. The lease payments have got to be like $500/month if not slightly more... it is a very nice car.
Russian spy payroll? (I'm being silly)
There are more than a few stories of people who think conspicuous spending above and beyond what is normal for their government income level will never be noticed. Some time later they are revealed to be working for the "other side".
I also work for the gment, and I always find it interesting when people drive cars to work that are very pricey. Salaries here are no secret. "I am a Grade X; Step Y." I see a lot of Tesla Model 3s. I wonder if they think it's a statement to have a Tesla, they really care about the environment, or just like to drive really really fast? I don't know, but I see way more nice cars around the area than nefarious countries would be willing to fund. A used Model 3 in my area is 60k. That is SO much money when the car accounts for 75% of one’s pre-tax salary. Agree with the pension fund, but the way some people spend, they seem in real trouble in retirement.
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Overheard in the lunch break at work today:
Me: For our next car, I am interested in a reasonably priced Mitsubishi Outlander plugin hybrid (used, but I didn't mention that). I wouldn't want to pay 800K$ for my next car (which is what some of the fancy high end plugin hybrids cost).
Co-worker: Everyone should buy expensive cars and take up loans for that. Think about the last financial crisis. It is important that we buy lots of stuff and keep the economy going. We can't go on saving up. Think about every one else.
Then he did as if he was telling a joke. Let's hope that it indeed was.
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Elderly co-worker to me when we were telling the plan to stop the development of the system he is very involved in: I feel like taking the next couple of years off!
Me in the lunch break: How many years to you have left before you can retire.
He: I could retire now, but it does have serious financial consequences.
He means implicitly that he would therefore work in a tiresome job until he reached 67. He is now 62-ish. I understand very well that it has financial consequences, but I don't understand why some people find it more important to make money than to go live their life.
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Had a new hire meeting earlier this week. We are all expats. We typically are paid at the end of the month. For the past month, the company advanced a part of our salary to cover our living expenses (part of our relocation allowance). Company wanted to hold a meeting so that we could ask any questions we had after living here for a month. One of the questions that came up was, “We are running out of money. Is there anyway to get another advance on our salary?” Given that benefits are clearly stated on the company website, I’m guessing this employee had a relocation allowance of at least USD$10K. Also, rent is covered and they don’t have a car. And the company-provided apartment is a 5 minute walk from work. So how do you blow through USD $10K in three weeks?
The sad thing was when they posed this question, a few other people also piped up about needing an advance. The good thing is that several people looked blankly at them and shook their head when asked if anyone else had the same problem.
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Three of my coworkers were just chatting in the kitchenette near where I am sitting and I just heard one of them say his parents pay for most of his rent. They were talking about buying houses and he said he and his girlfriend absolutely love their apartment and can't imagine moving out of it to buy something. Ok, that isn't bad on it's own. Then he said he had been paying over half of his salary toward rent so now his parents pay $1700 per month and he pays $1000. Denver is becoming a higher cost of living place, but he obviously lives in an EXTREMELY high-end apartment, likely right in downtown. I just built a brand-new townhouse and my mortgage payment is less than $2700 per month.
This man is in his early thirties and he is a GS-12 and his parents are paying the majority of his rent each month, when there are plenty of apartments within his means. That is just insane.
I've got an update on this one. First, he recently got promoted to a GS-13 position. Second, this morning he was in front of the building showing off his brand new Tesla. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that none of his increased salary is being used to pay a higher % of his own rent...
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Also - I don't have empirical evidence on this but I strongly believe that children grow up to be kinder, more well rounded citizens if they are exposed to others from all kinds of backgrounds, instead of having them only interact with other kids who are of their same income level and race/ethnicity.
You have, you just don't need where to find it ;)
Interestingly, countries that have outright banned private schools and made them illegal have much higher rates of literacy and educational attainment and enrichment across the board, regardless of family income levels.
BUT THAT IS SOCIALISM!!!
Sorry, I could again not resist it. It has become a really bad habit by now.
It's the culture and poverty that comes with 80% sub lunches and english language learners. Bad personal habits of the parents, gangs, drug use, property crime, violence. Bilingualism for the win, but cultural issues make it a net loss all the way around.
You are aware that this is a self-fulfilling prophecy? A recursive algorythm?
Co-worker: Everyone should buy expensive cars and take up loans for that. Think about the last financial crisis. It is important that we buy lots of stuff and keep the economy going. We can't go on saving up. Think about every one else.
Then he did as if he was telling a joke. Let's hope that it indeed was.
I am confused. Why? He is right. If the cunsumerism fever stops, "the economy" would crash tremendously. Especially with all the debts - someone has to shoulder them for us ( and all the really rich guys) to have the savings!
Every dollar someone has saved is a dollar debt to someone else. And every dollar debt is one dollar saved for a different person. A financial crash happens when that theoretical status can no longer be transfered to reality.
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I don't have empirical evidence on this but I strongly believe that children grow up to be kinder, more well rounded citizens if they are exposed to others from all kinds of backgrounds, instead of having them only interact with other kids who are of their same income level and race/ethnicity.
This is only a data point, but I grew up in a somewhat diversified area (~50/50 white/hispanic), and I'm pretty much an asshole. My memories from growing up include witnessing a lot of fights in school, lots of drug use, a lot of teen pregnancies, and getting a lot of stuff stolen (probably related to the second point). I certainly wouldn't let my children go to that school.
I blame the income disparity a whole lot more than the race disparity though.
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I see these kinds of sentiments a lot and I'm only speaking up about it because this was the topic of my dissertation so it is one that I am very well educated about. The ESL issue may be one thing, but the % of low income students should not be a deterrent. The fact that middle and high income students flock to private schools are why the public school systems seem so bad. First, when all of the parents who really care strongly about education put their kids in private schools, there is no one to advocate for the students and hold the schools accountable at the public level, which ends up hurting all of the kids. Second, there have been extensive studies that have shown a child with dedicated, committed parents will do well in school regardless of whether they are in a private school, a top public school, or the worst public school in the county. So individually, if you are a committed parent you shouldn't be worried about school rankings and average test scores. If more higher income committed parents were spread among the school system instead of being clumped in the highest performing public and private schools, all students would benefit and the average scores for all of the schools would rise as a result.
Not saying this to you personally - I've just been seeing too many posts on here and on social media about this lately - but unfortunately in the US we have this idea of "I've got mine, screw you" instead of an idea of community where my child going to a low income school would help benefit all of the students in that community. Also - I don't have empirical evidence on this but I strongly believe that children grow up to be kinder, more well rounded citizens if they are exposed to others from all kinds of backgrounds, instead of having them only interact with other kids who are of their same income level and race/ethnicity. I understand that in a school with a high % of ESL learners the teachers will be spending a lot more attention on the ESL students, but going back to the idea that having committed parents will help the children succeed regardless, being exposed to ESL students is an overall win in my book.
I went to a public school that didn't have a lot of resources so there was only one foreign language option, no AP classes, etc. The higher income families in our area who cared about those kinds of things sent their kids to the private school so there was no one to advocate for those kinds of classes in the public school (the only option for a public school in our rural area) and there weren't any higher income families to help with fundraising to try and give more resources to the school.
Interestingly, countries that have outright banned private schools and made them illegal have much higher rates of literacy and educational attainment and enrichment across the board, regardless of family income levels.
That's great and all, and in theory I would agree with you. If I had my way, we'd have no private schools or charter schools.
In my reality, however, when my son was faced with the choice between our local middle school and charter school (akin to private in the demographics), I gave it serious thought but in the end we opted for the charter school. There were two things I could not get past about the local public middle school: 1) the percentage of kids who passed the standardized tests was 30% and 2) the number of fights that were reported to the police during the last school year on record was 57. Fifty-seven fights bad enough to call the cops in 180 days. That's more than once per week. You know how google gives suggestions when you start to type a search term? The first suggestion for this school's name was "this particular public middle school fights." Sorry, not sorry.
This
My parents moved to a good school area, where drugs and fights didn't happen at all (literally zero)
Meanwhile, the school on the south side of town with the "high percentage ESL/subsidized lunch" had huge problems with... Gangs actively recruiting students and cars getting stolen
Correlation does not imply causation, but that doesn't mean there isn't any correlation.
When I have kids, if there is a low income/high ESL school that is safe, fantastic, they can go there. (All sorts of benefits about well roundedness and such)
But they will be going somewhere safe, and if that means I have a "I've got mine screw you" mentally that contributes to the problem, oh well
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I don't have empirical evidence on this but I strongly believe that children grow up to be kinder, more well rounded citizens if they are exposed to others from all kinds of backgrounds, instead of having them only interact with other kids who are of their same income level and race/ethnicity.
This is only a data point, but I grew up in a somewhat diversified area (~50/50 white/hispanic), and I'm pretty much an asshole. My memories from growing up include witnessing a lot of fights in school, lots of drug use, a lot of teen pregnancies, and getting a lot of stuff stolen (probably related to the second point). I certainly wouldn't let my children go to that school.
I blame the income disparity a whole lot more than the race disparity though.
Yeah but that’s actually a pretty one-sides experience.. If your school had equal amounts of races AND incomes, you would probably witness far fewer fights.
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The problem is that children learn from their peers. After a certain age, peer influence becomes much more important than parental influence. I have friends with kids through all ages from preschool to college, and this is very obvious. The kids in private school or very good schools are surrounded by friends who work hard and want to succeed. They're all trying to do well in school, and in their spare time actively seek out volunteer experiences or get together to do projects or even start their own companies. The kids in so-so public schools, it's all the parents can do to get them to do their homework on time. The kids tell them all their friends just play games after school, so why should they have to do work? Or even if they do their homework, won't put in any extra effort, because just getting the bare minimum done is already "extra effort" among their peers.
I don't know any parents willing to risk their child's future for the greater good.
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The problem is that children learn from their peers. After a certain age, peer influence becomes much more important than parental influence. I have friends with kids through all ages from preschool to college, and this is very obvious. The kids in private school or very good schools are surrounded by friends who work hard and want to succeed. They're all trying to do well in school, and in their spare time actively seek out volunteer experiences or get together to do projects or even start their own companies. The kids in so-so public schools, it's all the parents can do to get them to do their homework on time. The kids tell them all their friends just play games after school, so why should they have to do work? Or even if they do their homework, won't put in any extra effort, because just getting the bare minimum done is already "extra effort" among their peers.
I don't know any parents willing to risk their child's future for the greater good.
I don't think that's an accurate depiction of private schools, though. I went to a private school for 5-9 grade, and was surrounded by kids who wanted to get home and float in the pool, or go shopping, confident that if they did the bare minimum to pass their classes, Daddy could still get them into college. Grade 10-12, I went to the public school, where yes, the bottom tier of students knew that how well they did in school, or even if they graduated, probably wasn't going to make a big difference in their lives. However, the upper tier of students knew that how they did was the difference between getting a scholarship and getting to go to college, or being stuck in low-pay dead-end jobs their whole life. They were much more motivated than the private school kids.
All of that to say, it really depends on the school. Some private schools are great, filled with students who are motivated and smart. Some are not. Same for public schools. It's difficult to generalize such a complex question.
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I can understand private school when it fills a clear need that public does not. The public closest to us is 80% English language learners/subsidized or free lunch, so most parents who are more affluent and educated choose something else for their kids. Whether there really is a need there or not, I have no personal experience. I could be convinced that if the majority of the school population has one set of needs and your kid has a different set of needs, the kid may be netter served elsewhere. Who knows?
The second biggest need in my area that sends kids to private school is language immersion. We have a pretty diverse set of neighbors who send their kids to school in Spanish, German, French, and Mandarin. We are lucky to have found a public Mandarin program but no French or German in public yet. With one kid it probably doesn’t make a big difference but once you have two or three kids, it seems to me you would be better off selling and moving someplace that offers what you need in the public system, even if you have to pay a good bit more for housing there.
My kids attend schools like these. For elementary, we transferred from a school of 95% free lunch and 70% ELL to a school with 75% free lunch and 50% ELL.
Our junior high is 85-90% free lunch.
(Both schools provide free lunch to all students, as do many schools in our district. Including some of the wealthier schools.)
Our teachers at the elementary level are quite good. I would say that historically, the school we attend *used* to be maybe flipped. Only 25% free lunch and 25% ELL. So, many of the veteran teachers are very much able to challenge the higher performing children. Both my kids have done/ are doing fantastically well. Where we have historically failed is actually with the ELL students. ELL students at our school don't do as well as ELL students at richer schools. Not surprising - they have more (PTA) money to spend on teacher's aides.
This will vary quite a lot on the individual school, teachers, and even the grade level. Both my boys have "grade levels" with a large % of high achieving students who STAYED (vs transferred to the GATE program at a different school). The grades before and after my older son were not so lucky. Fewer babies that year, far more opportunity to transfer. So there may have been only 1-2 (grade above) or 3-5 (grade below) students who are high achievers. So fewer people to work with, study with, and egg on, so to speak. I cannot really blame parents for giving it a try for 2-4 years and then transferring. The key was to give the school a try.
My 2nd grader had a classmate in 1st who had attended the school we are zoned for. She was concerned that in Kindergarten, he was one of the top students. In 1st at our school, he was far behind. That is a possible risk if you are in a school with 95% ELL - you may stand out as being awesome, but be behind students in other schools.
I think many of my friends think similarly of my kids - my jr high kid attends the "worst" (public opinion only) jr high school (the poorest one and with most % of Latinx). But ya know, he still got a perfect score on the state tests, so he's good. Would it be better or worse for him to be 100% surrounded by kids like him or better? Who knows, really. I don't feel the need to have him surrounded by only the best, smartest, rich white kids. Some kids REALLY have different needs. My kid is a GATE kid, but he's got pretty normal educational needs. Some other kids have higher needs, different needs.
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I'm really enjoying the discussion about public vs private, and the effect of income and ESL in schools, but perhaps we should pull it to its own thread? We wouldn't want to busy the delightful stories people are overhearing at work :) (Mea culpa, I should have suggested this in my first response.)
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I can understand private school when it fills a clear need that public does not. The public closest to us is 80% English language learners/subsidized or free lunch, so most parents who are more affluent and educated choose something else for their kids. Whether there really is a need there or not, I have no personal experience. I could be convinced that if the majority of the school population has one set of needs and your kid has a different set of needs, the kid may be netter served elsewhere. Who knows?
The second biggest need in my area that sends kids to private school is language immersion. We have a pretty diverse set of neighbors who send their kids to school in Spanish, German, French, and Mandarin. We are lucky to have found a public Mandarin program but no French or German in public yet. With one kid it probably doesn’t make a big difference but once you have two or three kids, it seems to me you would be better off selling and moving someplace that offers what you need in the public system, even if you have to pay a good bit more for housing there.
I see these kinds of sentiments a lot and I'm only speaking up about it because this was the topic of my dissertation so it is one that I am very well educated about. The ESL issue may be one thing, but the % of low income students should not be a deterrent. The fact that middle and high income students flock to private schools are why the public school systems seem so bad. First, when all of the parents who really care strongly about education put their kids in private schools, there is no one to advocate for the students and hold the schools accountable at the public level, which ends up hurting all of the kids. Second, there have been extensive studies that have shown a child with dedicated, committed parents will do well in school regardless of whether they are in a private school, a top public school, or the worst public school in the county. So individually, if you are a committed parent you shouldn't be worried about school rankings and average test scores. If more higher income committed parents were spread among the school system instead of being clumped in the highest performing public and private schools, all students would benefit and the average scores for all of the schools would rise as a result.
Not saying this to you personally - I've just been seeing too many posts on here and on social media about this lately - but unfortunately in the US we have this idea of "I've got mine, screw you" instead of an idea of community where my child going to a low income school would help benefit all of the students in that community. Also - I don't have empirical evidence on this but I strongly believe that children grow up to be kinder, more well rounded citizens if they are exposed to others from all kinds of backgrounds, instead of having them only interact with other kids who are of their same income level and race/ethnicity. I understand that in a school with a high % of ESL learners the teachers will be spending a lot more attention on the ESL students, but going back to the idea that having committed parents will help the children succeed regardless, being exposed to ESL students is an overall win in my book.
I went to a public school that didn't have a lot of resources so there was only one foreign language option, no AP classes, etc. The higher income families in our area who cared about those kinds of things sent their kids to the private school so there was no one to advocate for those kinds of classes in the public school (the only option for a public school in our rural area) and there weren't any higher income families to help with fundraising to try and give more resources to the school.
Interestingly, countries that have outright banned private schools and made them illegal have much higher rates of literacy and educational attainment and enrichment across the board, regardless of family income levels.
I appreciate your perspective, especially as you have researched this area. I have wondered the same thing. I know the studies show that kids of our demographic are likely to do well wherever because they already won the birth lottery of having educated, successful, involved parents. I’ve said before that if everyone in our position in our neighborhood banded together and sent all of our kids to the local school it would likely be a completely different school with different funding, scores, and participation. But short of unionizing the parents, each family makes their own individual decision of what they think is best in a vacuum, and the result is what we see today.
In our personal case we speak A and B to the kids at home and do want them to be educated in immersion A or B. The closest public school is majority students from language C with instruction in English. A public school further away has A immersion, so we went with that for personal and cultural reasons. Immersion B is also an option but only in private, and we aren’t going to pay when it appears public is a good option. I’m still trying to figure out how to fill some gaps for B via what I can do at home, summer camps, play groups, and the like. I hope to have more time next year by dropping down to part-time work to be able to do a better job there.
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I don't have empirical evidence on this but I strongly believe that children grow up to be kinder, more well rounded citizens if they are exposed to others from all kinds of backgrounds, instead of having them only interact with other kids who are of their same income level and race/ethnicity.
This is only a data point, but I grew up in a somewhat diversified area (~50/50 white/hispanic), and I'm pretty much an asshole. My memories from growing up include witnessing a lot of fights in school, lots of drug use, a lot of teen pregnancies, and getting a lot of stuff stolen (probably related to the second point). I certainly wouldn't let my children go to that school.
I blame the income disparity a whole lot more than the race disparity though.
Yeah but that’s actually a pretty one-sides experience.. If your school had equal amounts of races AND incomes, you would probably witness far fewer fights.
This is the point exactly - although I agree that it isn't a realistic expectation in our current society for this to happen. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't work toward putting in place policies and incentives to try and make it happen in the future.
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I created a thread to continue this engaging conversation: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/public-v-private-schools/
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The problem is that children learn from their peers. After a certain age, peer influence becomes much more important than parental influence. I have friends with kids through all ages from preschool to college, and this is very obvious. The kids in private school or very good schools are surrounded by friends who work hard and want to succeed. They're all trying to do well in school, and in their spare time actively seek out volunteer experiences or get together to do projects or even start their own companies. The kids in so-so public schools, it's all the parents can do to get them to do their homework on time. The kids tell them all their friends just play games after school, so why should they have to do work? Or even if they do their homework, won't put in any extra effort, because just getting the bare minimum done is already "extra effort" among their peers.
I don't know any parents willing to risk their child's future for the greater good.
I don't think that's an accurate depiction of private schools, though. I went to a private school for 5-9 grade, and was surrounded by kids who wanted to get home and float in the pool, or go shopping, confident that if they did the bare minimum to pass their classes, Daddy could still get them into college. Grade 10-12, I went to the public school, where yes, the bottom tier of students knew that how well they did in school, or even if they graduated, probably wasn't going to make a big difference in their lives. However, the upper tier of students knew that how they did was the difference between getting a scholarship and getting to go to college, or being stuck in low-pay dead-end jobs their whole life. They were much more motivated than the private school kids.
All of that to say, it really depends on the school. Some private schools are great, filled with students who are motivated and smart. Some are not. Same for public schools. It's difficult to generalize such a complex question.
Oh yes, there's just as much variance in the quality of private schools as there are public. I was replying not in the context of private vs. public, but more in the context of parents selecting schools for their children, as opposed to just putting in them any school regardless of the socioeconomic distribution or academic performance of their peers.
As an educational consultant, one of our jobs is to steer parents away from the bad private schools. They're as bad as the worst public schools, though in slightly different ways.
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Not overheard but seen.
I make the same as another guy. I'm pretty certain he leases cars. He leased an expensive German luxury car and a few weeks ago came to work in a different luxury car. I don't know his home situation and how much his wife makes, but if it was just him I don't see how he affords the car. Since we both work for the government he has mandatory pension contributions, so at least that's good... but still, I just don't see how he can afford it. The lease payments have got to be like $500/month if not slightly more... it is a very nice car.
Russian spy payroll? (I'm being silly)
There are more than a few stories of people who think conspicuous spending above and beyond what is normal for their government income level will never be noticed. Some time later they are revealed to be working for the "other side".
The govt agency I work at (as a contractor) performs quarterly credit checks on it's civilians. Any red flags, the civvy is called in to explain. Because if the debt spirals out of control, the person is vulnerable to foreign adversaries. Better to nip the issue in the bud.
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To get back on topic:
"I'm investing big in McDonald's!"
-"why?"
"Because when the economy is down, everybody gets MacDonald's because it's cheap, and when the economy is up, everybody gets MacDonald's because they're too busy to cook!"
-
To get back on topic:
"I'm investing big in McDonald's!"
-"why?"
"Because when the economy is down, everybody gets MacDonald's because it's cheap, and when the economy is up, everybody gets MacDonald's because they're too busy to cook!"
yup. McD is a dividend aristocrat stock.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-all-the-dividend-aristocrat-stocks-have-performed-this-year-2019-07-25
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To get back on topic:
"I'm investing big in McDonald's!"
-"why?"
"Because when the economy is down, everybody gets MacDonald's because it's cheap, and when the economy is up, everybody gets MacDonald's because they're too busy to cook!"
yup. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-all-the-dividend-aristocrat-stocks-have-performed-this-year-2019-07-25
They're investing in something solid... Just not for the right reasons
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Not overheard but seen.
I make the same as another guy. I'm pretty certain he leases cars. He leased an expensive German luxury car and a few weeks ago came to work in a different luxury car. I don't know his home situation and how much his wife makes, but if it was just him I don't see how he affords the car. Since we both work for the government he has mandatory pension contributions, so at least that's good... but still, I just don't see how he can afford it. The lease payments have got to be like $500/month if not slightly more... it is a very nice car.
Russian spy payroll? (I'm being silly)
There are more than a few stories of people who think conspicuous spending above and beyond what is normal for their government income level will never be noticed. Some time later they are revealed to be working for the "other side".
The govt agency I work at (as a contractor) performs quarterly credit checks on it's civilians. Any red flags, the civvy is called in to explain. Because if the debt spirals out of control, the person is vulnerable to foreign adversaries. Better to nip the issue in the bud.
when I worked in IT for Canada's largest bank, I know I had to pass a credit check (among other checks) before being hired, but I don't think they ever checked again.....sounds like a good idea.....people with good credit are less likely to dip into the till.
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To get back on topic:
"I'm investing big in McDonald's!"
-"why?"
"Because when the economy is down, everybody gets MacDonald's because it's cheap, and when the economy is up, everybody gets MacDonald's because they're too busy to cook!"
yup. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-all-the-dividend-aristocrat-stocks-have-performed-this-year-2019-07-25
They're investing in something solid... Just not for the right reasons
I really don’t know if McDonald’s can compete going forward. They’ve tried so hard for so long to increase their perception of quality and to get people to move up from the languishing dollar menu. But why on earth would I want to spend day $4 on a Big Mac when I can get an in n out double double for $3.45? The only thing they have going for them is essentially a loss leader
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Not overheard but seen.
I make the same as another guy. I'm pretty certain he leases cars. He leased an expensive German luxury car and a few weeks ago came to work in a different luxury car. I don't know his home situation and how much his wife makes, but if it was just him I don't see how he affords the car. Since we both work for the government he has mandatory pension contributions, so at least that's good... but still, I just don't see how he can afford it. The lease payments have got to be like $500/month if not slightly more... it is a very nice car.
when I worked in IT for Canada's largest bank, I know I had to pass a credit check (among other checks) before being hired, but I don't think they ever checked again.....sounds like a good idea.....people with good credit are less likely to dip into the till.
Russian spy payroll? (I'm being silly)
There are more than a few stories of people who think conspicuous spending above and beyond what is normal for their government income level will never be noticed. Some time later they are revealed to be working for the "other side".
The govt agency I work at (as a contractor) performs quarterly credit checks on it's civilians. Any red flags, the civvy is called in to explain. Because if the debt spirals out of control, the person is vulnerable to foreign adversaries. Better to nip the issue in the bud.
lol.. wouldn’t want anyone in government to be vulnerable to foreign adversaries right?
-
To get back on topic:
"I'm investing big in McDonald's!"
-"why?"
"Because when the economy is down, everybody gets MacDonald's because it's cheap, and when the economy is up, everybody gets MacDonald's because they're too busy to cook!"
yup. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-all-the-dividend-aristocrat-stocks-have-performed-this-year-2019-07-25
They're investing in something solid... Just not for the right reasons
I really don’t know if McDonald’s can compete going forward. They’ve tried so hard for so long to increase their perception of quality and to get people to move up from the languishing dollar menu. But why on earth would I want to spend day $4 on a Big Mac when I can get an in n out double double for $3.45? The only thing they have going for them is essentially a loss leader
I don't eat at McDonald's if I can help it, but I own some stock, their stock price has more than doubled in the last 5 years.
-
To get back on topic:
"I'm investing big in McDonald's!"
-"why?"
"Because when the economy is down, everybody gets MacDonald's because it's cheap, and when the economy is up, everybody gets MacDonald's because they're too busy to cook!"
I don't eat at McDonald's if I can help it, but I own some stock, their stock price has more than doubled in the last 5 years.
yup. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-all-the-dividend-aristocrat-stocks-have-performed-this-year-2019-07-25
They're investing in something solid... Just not for the right reasons
I really don’t know if McDonald’s can compete going forward. They’ve tried so hard for so long to increase their perception of quality and to get people to move up from the languishing dollar menu. But why on earth would I want to spend day $4 on a Big Mac when I can get an in n out double double for $3.45? The only thing they have going for them is essentially a loss leader
bluebelle, it's very hard to find your comments when you post like this. It's best if you put your comments at the very bottom, outside the final /quote tag. Then, when you're done typing, click the Preview button, instead of the Post button. When you're sure it looks right, then Post it.
-
To get back on topic:
"I'm investing big in McDonald's!"
-"why?"
"Because when the economy is down, everybody gets MacDonald's because it's cheap, and when the economy is up, everybody gets MacDonald's because they're too busy to cook!"
yup. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-all-the-dividend-aristocrat-stocks-have-performed-this-year-2019-07-25
They're investing in something solid... Just not for the right reasons
I really don’t know if McDonald’s can compete going forward. They’ve tried so hard for so long to increase their perception of quality and to get people to move up from the languishing dollar menu. But why on earth would I want to spend day $4 on a Big Mac when I can get an in n out double double for $3.45? The only thing they have going for them is essentially a loss leader
I don't eat at McDonald's if I can help it, but I own some stock, their stock price has more than doubled in the last 5 years.
My money's on Chick-fil-A
Actually my money is in vtsax, and Chick-fil-A is private, but my metaphorical money would be on them
They've got it down to a science
-
To get back on topic:
"I'm investing big in McDonald's!"
-"why?"
"Because when the economy is down, everybody gets MacDonald's because it's cheap, and when the economy is up, everybody gets MacDonald's because they're too busy to cook!"
I don't eat at McDonald's if I can help it, but I own some stock, their stock price has more than doubled in the last 5 years.
yup. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-all-the-dividend-aristocrat-stocks-have-performed-this-year-2019-07-25
They're investing in something solid... Just not for the right reasons
I really don’t know if McDonald’s can compete going forward. They’ve tried so hard for so long to increase their perception of quality and to get people to move up from the languishing dollar menu. But why on earth would I want to spend day $4 on a Big Mac when I can get an in n out double double for $3.45? The only thing they have going for them is essentially a loss leader
bluebelle, it's very hard to find your comments when you post like this. It's best if you put your comments at the very bottom, outside the final /quote tag. Then, when you're done typing, click the Preview button, instead of the Post button. When you're sure it looks right, then Post it.
I know, I screwed up, and it was one of the times I didn't do a preview....I fixed.
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It's the culture and poverty that comes with 80% sub lunches and english language learners. Bad personal habits of the parents, gangs, drug use, property crime, violence. Bilingualism for the win, but cultural issues make it a net loss all the way around.
You are aware that this is a self-fulfilling prophecy? A recursive algorythm?
If everybody did it sure. But everybody won't. Cities and counties offer incentives to move into these areas, eg for police, etc., and some will--I will leave it to a coalition of the willing; which includes community leaders, parents and kids in these areas. If you are willing by all means move in; the social issues are already priced into the assets available there, so run cost/benefit and make a personal decision. :)
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There was a conversation with coworkers involving cars today.
One of them has a stick shift car, and the intern was commenting on it, saying things like, "That's so cool! I want to learn to drive stick shift. I want a get a stick shift because then no one could steal it. I've been trying to find a car, it's sooo hard!" I really wanted to tell her not to get a car and save her money, but she seemed pretty set on the idea that she 'needed' a car. She has been carpooling to work with another intern.
Owner of said car continued enthusing over it, saying how it took forever for him to find this model and when he found the dealership that had it, drove several hours to retrieve it. I can tell it's a bit nicer than what he can probably afford, bigger-picture-wise, with leather seats and all. He always comes in with a sugary Starbucks beverage and pastry, every single morning, today included. Then complains he still has student loan debt and that he is putting on weight. I know he doesn't get paid very much. So the financial choices are... interesting.
The whole time, it was all I can do not to blurt out something along the lines of, "Who the hell cares if it's stick-shift or not as long as the car works? They're both money pits anyway!" (I'm not into cars even remotely.)
Thankfully, one other coworker commented that she never had to buy a car and enjoys not having to deal with car-related expenses. There are some smart cookies, after all.
If they really want to buy a car to learn how to drive a stick and for the fun factor you should suggest a Miata! They are cheap to buy and maintain and, most importantly, you cannot beat the smiles per miles :)
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Miatas aren't that cheap really. The used ones around here stay over $5k. I'd just go with a base model compact or sub compact.
But this woman should probably actually try driving a manual car before she buys one. They can be a pain in the ass, especially in the city or in emergency situations.
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I really miss having a manual transmission.
I always had them prior to marrying my first husband. He was terrible at driving them, so I hated it when he drove my car as he would grind the gears and make me crazy. As a result, the next car I bought was an automatic. And since then I haven’t gone back to manual. The car I have now, I’ll drive into the ground, and I am hoping to have a good long time before that happens. It’s in good shape, and I don’t drive much anymore.
I may never have a manual again. Sigh...
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I bought a manual mostly because I’ve dated some partners who are horrible at driving but felt slighted if I never let them drive...
Problem solved...
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I bought a manual mostly because I’ve dated some partners who are horrible at driving but felt slighted if I never let them drive...
Problem solved...
That's a good solution!
Kind of weird that people would expect to have their date drive their car, though. I mean, if we were doing a long drive together it would make sense to trade off, but otherwise, the car owner is -- to my mind -- the expected driver.
I'm guessing it's guys who have the expectation of driving?
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The govt agency I work at (as a contractor) performs quarterly credit checks on it's civilians. Any red flags, the civvy is called in to explain. Because if the debt spirals out of control, the person is vulnerable to foreign adversaries. Better to nip the issue in the bud.
lol.. wouldn’t want anyone in government to be vulnerable to foreign adversaries right?
Yeah, it'd be really awful if some high-placed civilian wasn't as strong financially as they claimed to be and were at risk of undue interference from foreign governments. That'd be terrible. Glad we have procedures in place to make sure that can never happen.
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To get back on topic:
"I'm investing big in McDonald's!"
-"why?"
"Because when the economy is down, everybody gets MacDonald's because it's cheap, and when the economy is up, everybody gets MacDonald's because they're too busy to cook!"
yup. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-all-the-dividend-aristocrat-stocks-have-performed-this-year-2019-07-25
They're investing in something solid... Just not for the right reasons
I really don’t know if McDonald’s can compete going forward. They’ve tried so hard for so long to increase their perception of quality and to get people to move up from the languishing dollar menu. But why on earth would I want to spend day $4 on a Big Mac when I can get an in n out double double for $3.45? The only thing they have going for them is essentially a loss leader
In-n-out isn't everywhere though. As much as I like their burgers (lettuce wrapped of course), their fries kinda suck. I know they are fresh. But...meh.
I don't eat at McDonald's though.
Nor will I eat at Chick-fil-A
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This thread is making me hungry.
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I really miss having a manual transmission.
I always had them prior to marrying my first husband. He was terrible at driving them, so I hated it when he drove my car as he would grind the gears and make me crazy. As a result, the next car I bought was an automatic. And since then I haven’t gone back to manual. The car I have now, I’ll drive into the ground, and I am hoping to have a good long time before that happens. It’s in good shape, and I don’t drive much anymore.
I may never have a manual again. Sigh...
Get yourself a motorcycle! Win/win!
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To get back on topic:
"I'm investing big in McDonald's!"
-"why?"
"Because when the economy is down, everybody gets MacDonald's because it's cheap, and when the economy is up, everybody gets MacDonald's because they're too busy to cook!"
yup. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-all-the-dividend-aristocrat-stocks-have-performed-this-year-2019-07-25
They're investing in something solid... Just not for the right reasons
I really don’t know if McDonald’s can compete going forward. They’ve tried so hard for so long to increase their perception of quality and to get people to move up from the languishing dollar menu. But why on earth would I want to spend day $4 on a Big Mac when I can get an in n out double double for $3.45? The only thing they have going for them is essentially a loss leader
In-n-out isn't everywhere though. As much as I like their burgers (lettuce wrapped of course), their fries kinda suck. I know they are fresh. But...meh.
I don't eat at McDonald's though.
Nor will I eat at Chick-fil-A
The fries do sort of suck. If you get them extra crispy and animal style it helps a lot
-
To get back on topic:
"I'm investing big in McDonald's!"
-"why?"
"Because when the economy is down, everybody gets MacDonald's because it's cheap, and when the economy is up, everybody gets MacDonald's because they're too busy to cook!"
yup. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-all-the-dividend-aristocrat-stocks-have-performed-this-year-2019-07-25
They're investing in something solid... Just not for the right reasons
I really don’t know if McDonald’s can compete going forward. They’ve tried so hard for so long to increase their perception of quality and to get people to move up from the languishing dollar menu. But why on earth would I want to spend day $4 on a Big Mac when I can get an in n out double double for $3.45? The only thing they have going for them is essentially a loss leader
In-n-out isn't everywhere though. As much as I like their burgers (lettuce wrapped of course), their fries kinda suck. I know they are fresh. But...meh.
I don't eat at McDonald's though.
Nor will I eat at Chick-fil-A
Sure, but they aren't unique in their ability to beat McDonalds on both price and quality. McDonalds has location going for it once you leave populated areas. But didn't you know that cities are growing while rural areas are depopulating?
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A work friend of mine - who is lovely - sends her children to private schools, even though she really can't afford it. She earns a slightly above average income, but her husband's been unemployed for a long time and has only just got a job. They've taken out a second mortgage to afford it, even though they're in the catchment area for a really well respected, high performing and sought after public school. Then she says that she struggles to afford the private school and is annoyed that people think that private school kids are privileged.
It's just weird to me. If you have to struggle to do it, and there's no REASON to do it, why are you doing it? I also think that some people struggle to just get food on the table and a roof over their heads, so I will reserve most of my sympathy for them, as opposed to (lovely but misguided) people who are basically living above their means.
Can't really say that, though. But when she says things like "Should I keep them in private school?", I say "You don't have to, the other school's a really good option."
People get very emotional about their kid's education. I've looked at private schools myself, and even though we can well afford it, I just don't want to go down that rabbit hole. What has helped me avoid that expense is a) my older one would not be accepted into most regular private schools because of his special needs and b) I've heard some not so nice things about extreme snobbiness from parents whose kids have attended private schools near us.
I can totally understand the draw though, especially since I work part time as an educational consultant. Especially when it's a place where your child is spending most of their waking hours five days a week. I haven't yet found a totally convincing argument against private education for friends who have this emotional want for it for their kids.
Back in the olden days before the internet, I was a Money Magazine addict. I remember reading an article to the same effect. Buying the more expensive house in the best public school district was a better return on investment than paying for private school. It made total sense to me. OTOH, I kinda know where you live. If those schools aren't top-notch, where the hell are they?
-
To get back on topic:
"I'm investing big in McDonald's!"
-"why?"
"Because when the economy is down, everybody gets MacDonald's because it's cheap, and when the economy is up, everybody gets MacDonald's because they're too busy to cook!"
yup. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-all-the-dividend-aristocrat-stocks-have-performed-this-year-2019-07-25
They're investing in something solid... Just not for the right reasons
I really don’t know if McDonald’s can compete going forward. They’ve tried so hard for so long to increase their perception of quality and to get people to move up from the languishing dollar menu. But why on earth would I want to spend day $4 on a Big Mac when I can get an in n out double double for $3.45? The only thing they have going for them is essentially a loss leader
In-n-out isn't everywhere though. As much as I like their burgers (lettuce wrapped of course), their fries kinda suck. I know they are fresh. But...meh.
I don't eat at McDonald's though.
Nor will I eat at Chick-fil-A
The fries do sort of suck. If you get them extra crispy and animal style it helps a lot
Yeah, Five Guys has them beat on fries. But man, I wish we had In-N-Out here. Those are good burgers and much cheaper than my favorite local restaurant burger (which is absolutely worth it a couple times a year).
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A work friend of mine - who is lovely - sends her children to private schools, even though she really can't afford it. She earns a slightly above average income, but her husband's been unemployed for a long time and has only just got a job. They've taken out a second mortgage to afford it, even though they're in the catchment area for a really well respected, high performing and sought after public school. Then she says that she struggles to afford the private school and is annoyed that people think that private school kids are privileged.
It's just weird to me. If you have to struggle to do it, and there's no REASON to do it, why are you doing it? I also think that some people struggle to just get food on the table and a roof over their heads, so I will reserve most of my sympathy for them, as opposed to (lovely but misguided) people who are basically living above their means.
Can't really say that, though. But when she says things like "Should I keep them in private school?", I say "You don't have to, the other school's a really good option."
People get very emotional about their kid's education. I've looked at private schools myself, and even though we can well afford it, I just don't want to go down that rabbit hole. What has helped me avoid that expense is a) my older one would not be accepted into most regular private schools because of his special needs and b) I've heard some not so nice things about extreme snobbiness from parents whose kids have attended private schools near us.
I can totally understand the draw though, especially since I work part time as an educational consultant. Especially when it's a place where your child is spending most of their waking hours five days a week. I haven't yet found a totally convincing argument against private education for friends who have this emotional want for it for their kids.
Back in the olden days before the internet, I was a Money Magazine addict. I remember reading an article to the same effect. Buying the more expensive house in the best public school district was a better return on investment than paying for private school. It made total sense to me. OTOH, I kinda know where you live. If those schools aren't top-notch, where the hell are they?
We live in a great school district but our neighborhood school will not allow my son to attend because of his special needs :( The district assigned him to a special class in a different school, which I didn't feel was beneficial for him. We fought hard for it, but stopped short of suing the district because I found a better solution. That's also why I was looking at private schools.
I remember a while back in the Bay Area you could totally see the price disparity on real estate in different school districts. But as the market continued heating up, even houses in the not so good school districts started selling like hot cakes. Hell, even a burnt shack in a crappy district sold for over a million dollars. But you could see that over the years the public school test scores started going up too. My theory is that the parents spent so much money just to get a place to live that they no longer had any dough left for private school.
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I can understand private school when it fills a clear need that public does not. The public closest to us is 80% English language learners/subsidized or free lunch, so most parents who are more affluent and educated choose something else for their kids. Whether there really is a need there or not, I have no personal experience. I could be convinced that if the majority of the school population has one set of needs and your kid has a different set of needs, the kid may be netter served elsewhere. Who knows?
The second biggest need in my area that sends kids to private school is language immersion. We have a pretty diverse set of neighbors who send their kids to school in Spanish, German, French, and Mandarin. We are lucky to have found a public Mandarin program but no French or German in public yet. With one kid it probably doesn’t make a big difference but once you have two or three kids, it seems to me you would be better off selling and moving someplace that offers what you need in the public system, even if you have to pay a good bit more for housing there.
I don't understand why parents would, on the one hand, not want their children to go to school with bilingual kids ("English language learners") and then on the other hand send their kids to an immersion school where those same kids will be be bilingual and going to school in a language that they themselves are weak in ie they will be "Mandarin language learners" or whatever.
Although my kids were born here in Italy I guess you could say that they are Italian language learners as we speak 90% English at home and most media, reading etc is in English. My kids go to a heavily immigrant school and the majority of kids in both of their classes are "Italian language learners" just like my kids. I see no negative side to this. IMO bilingualism is a strength not a weakness. I'm glad my kids are bilingual and I'm glad that they go to school with kids who speak a zillion different languages at home. The kids who get the best grades in the class in Italian are both bilingual BTW.
It's the culture and poverty that comes with 80% sub lunches and english language learners. Bad personal habits of the parents, gangs, drug use, property crime, violence. Bilingualism for the win, but cultural issues make it a net loss all the way around.
Just a matter of values.
Buddy of mine is of Mexican descent and his kids speak Spanish. He makes very good money (like, living large in a HCOL area kind of money) sends his kids to public school. He sent them to public school when they lived in a small town in The Deep South, and he does it where he lives now.
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To get back on topic:
"I'm investing big in McDonald's!"
-"why?"
"Because when the economy is down, everybody gets MacDonald's because it's cheap, and when the economy is up, everybody gets MacDonald's because they're too busy to cook!"
yup. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-all-the-dividend-aristocrat-stocks-have-performed-this-year-2019-07-25
They're investing in something solid... Just not for the right reasons
I really don’t know if McDonald’s can compete going forward. They’ve tried so hard for so long to increase their perception of quality and to get people to move up from the languishing dollar menu. But why on earth would I want to spend day $4 on a Big Mac when I can get an in n out double double for $3.45? The only thing they have going for them is essentially a loss leader
In-n-out isn't everywhere though. As much as I like their burgers (lettuce wrapped of course), their fries kinda suck. I know they are fresh. But...meh.
I don't eat at McDonald's though.
Nor will I eat at Chick-fil-A
The fries do sort of suck. If you get them extra crispy and animal style it helps a lot
Yeah, Five Guys has them beat on fries. But man, I wish we had In-N-Out here. Those are good burgers and much cheaper than my favorite local restaurant burger (which is absolutely worth it a couple times a year).
Popeyes > ChickFilA, when it comes to this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/voraciously/wp/2019/08/22/yes-the-popeyes-chicken-sandwich-is-great-heres-how-it-stacks-up-against-the-competition/
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Yeah, Five Guys has them beat on fries. But man, I wish we had In-N-Out here. Those are good burgers and much cheaper than my favorite local restaurant burger (which is absolutely worth it a couple times a year).
Five Guys is so good but so expensive at the same time. Easily can spend $45 on fries, shakes, and burgers for our family. We reserve it for a treat.
We have mostly quit Chik-Fil-A. Last we heard their politics/religion are not a good fit for us. If they don't approve of us then we don't approve of them. ;)
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But this woman should probably actually try driving a manual car before she buys one. They can be a pain in the ass, especially in the city or in emergency situations.
Why?
In the extremely rare instances that you evade a nearly car-total crash and hospital, you can always start the engine new. I would be surprised if that situation happens to anyone so frequently that they get angry about this detail.
And in the city I like that I can say how much braking my engine should do (and also saving on fuel). I don't see your problem.
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Yeah, Five Guys has them beat on fries. But man, I wish we had In-N-Out here. Those are good burgers and much cheaper than my favorite local restaurant burger (which is absolutely worth it a couple times a year).
Five Guys is so good but so expensive at the same time. Easily can spend $45 on fries, shakes, and burgers for our family. We reserve it for a treat.
We have mostly quit Chik-Fil-A. Last we heard their politics/religion are not a good fit for us. If they don't approve of us then we don't approve of them. ;)
Their politics are indeed questionable. The fact that they have food service down to a perfected science, is pretty indisputable.
You'd think they'd be vulnerable to somebody else copying their customer service experience, but for some reason that escapes me I continue to get comparativley sub-par service everywhere else
(It's been 2 years since my last visit, but it's still the benchmark)
Chipotle, please take a hint
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But this woman should probably actually try driving a manual car before she buys one. They can be a pain in the ass, especially in the city or in emergency situations.
Why?
In the extremely rare instances that you evade a nearly car-total crash and hospital, you can always start the engine new. I would be surprised if that situation happens to anyone so frequently that they get angry about this detail.
And in the city I like that I can say how much braking my engine should do (and also saving on fuel). I don't see your problem.
I missed this
What? I've always driven a stick shift, I've driven stick in downtown sanfran, in Chicago, in the mountains.... I don't get it?
Eventually it's as second nature as using your blinker
Also, rear wheel drive stick shift is soooo easy and cheap to maintain, I could swap my transmission in a single Saturday
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Yeah, Five Guys has them beat on fries. But man, I wish we had In-N-Out here. Those are good burgers and much cheaper than my favorite local restaurant burger (which is absolutely worth it a couple times a year).
Five Guys is so good but so expensive at the same time. Easily can spend $45 on fries, shakes, and burgers for our family. We reserve it for a treat.
We have mostly quit Chik-Fil-A. Last we heard their politics/religion are not a good fit for us. If they don't approve of us then we don't approve of them. ;)
Their politics are indeed questionable. The fact that they have food service down to a perfected science, is pretty indisputable.
You'd think they'd be vulnerable to somebody else copying their customer service experience, but for some reason that escapes me I continue to get comparativley sub-par service everywhere else
(It's been 2 years since my last visit, but it's still the benchmark)
Chipotle, please take a hint
I've never eaten at chic-fil-a. I'm interested in what they do differently that has you raving abut their great food service. Mind filling me in?
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Yeah, Five Guys has them beat on fries. But man, I wish we had In-N-Out here. Those are good burgers and much cheaper than my favorite local restaurant burger (which is absolutely worth it a couple times a year).
Five Guys is so good but so expensive at the same time. Easily can spend $45 on fries, shakes, and burgers for our family. We reserve it for a treat.
We have mostly quit Chik-Fil-A. Last we heard their politics/religion are not a good fit for us. If they don't approve of us then we don't approve of them. ;)
Their politics are indeed questionable. The fact that they have food service down to a perfected science, is pretty indisputable.
I don't know about that. I hear the one that just opened here is taking 20-30 minutes. Mainly because 90% of town is trying to eat there.
My kid is mad at me because I won't take him to their indoor play center. Sorry kid. Get one of the grandmas to do it.
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I've never eaten at chic-fil-a. I'm interested in what they do differently that has you raving abut their great food service. Mind filling me in?
Food is good, service is fast and friendly, tables floors and bathrooms are clean. If you have kids then most of their restaurants still have the playground, whereas McD and others seems to have forgotten about the concept recently, and their kids meals / toys / activities are second to none. It's not like they do something that no one else does, it's just that they do everything well.
It really is a wonderful fast food place - especially if you have young kids - but I cringe every time I walk in knowing that I'm supporting "conversion-therapy" camps and similar.
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Yeah, Five Guys has them beat on fries. But man, I wish we had In-N-Out here. Those are good burgers and much cheaper than my favorite local restaurant burger (which is absolutely worth it a couple times a year).
Five Guys is so good but so expensive at the same time. Easily can spend $45 on fries, shakes, and burgers for our family. We reserve it for a treat.
We have mostly quit Chik-Fil-A. Last we heard their politics/religion are not a good fit for us. If they don't approve of us then we don't approve of them. ;)
Their politics are indeed questionable. The fact that they have food service down to a perfected science, is pretty indisputable.
You'd think they'd be vulnerable to somebody else copying their customer service experience, but for some reason that escapes me I continue to get comparativley sub-par service everywhere else
(It's been 2 years since my last visit, but it's still the benchmark)
Chipotle, please take a hint
I've never eaten at chic-fil-a. I'm interested in what they do differently that has you raving abut their great food service. Mind filling me in?
Last time I went was right after DWs masters degree graduation event, so the place was swamped, line almost out the door, almost bailed, but thought "eh, this'll still be faster than walking anywhere else" so we went for it. Maybe 300 seconds in line max.
Got to the counter, "I'll have a #2 spicy no tomato and a dr pepper" (or something similar)
Dw said something similar
Drinks were handed out immediately and we found a seat
Food came out delivered to our table maybe 120-300 seconds later, the order was perfect
Asked if we wanted any condiments, and produced them from their apron on the spot
The entire time, everybody we interacted with was incredibly polite, manners 100% on point, no mumbling and easy to understand what they were saying, they always communicated what the next step in the process was clearly, and to top it off while we were eating the manager was making rounds and stopped over to check that everything was to satisfaction and we see if we needed anything
A previous visit at a drive through on a road trip, right off the interstate at lunchtime, line around the building
Before we got the the speaker box thing, someone with a headset was walking the line taking orders, so they were taking orders two at a time, and someone else then ran the order out to our car and processed payment and provided condiments and we were on our way in what was faster than some "taco bell at non-crowded hours" experiences I've had
Again, everybody 100% perfectly polite, food perfect
Not service related, but another instance we were eating in the parking lot and an employee was in the parking lot and either in the middle of moving or living in her car, flustered she was running late and she couldn't find her matching black work shoe, she went in in non-matching shoes in tears, and the manager came back out with her and helped her find her shoe
And dozens of other experiences, most of them "average", 100% of them pleasant, not a single one of them "bad"
In general, their sheer process efficiency while maintaining completely flawless customer service is enough to move an engineer to tears
I've since learned that to "own" a franchise you must have years of experience working there, and the barrier to entry is only $5,000, so essentially any employee can be eligible to be a owner/manager if they want to. Chick-fil-A then buys you a building, which you lease for an affordable rate, and when remodel time comes around every few years it is $0 out of pocket and the corporation foots the whole bill
They aren't vegan friendly unfortunately, I suppose chicken is kind of their thing
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But this woman should probably actually try driving a manual car before she buys one. They can be a pain in the ass, especially in the city or in emergency situations.
Why?
In the extremely rare instances that you evade a nearly car-total crash and hospital, you can always start the engine new. I would be surprised if that situation happens to anyone so frequently that they get angry about this detail.
And in the city I like that I can say how much braking my engine should do (and also saving on fuel). I don't see your problem.
I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. I'll make my points more clear:
Manuals can be more dangerous if you suddenly need to accelerate, like an unexpected lane ending. My little yaris doesn't pull in fifth gear very well. It's better to simply be able to stand on the accelerator rather than downshift twice.
In traffic, stop and go is rough on the clutch and often first gear is fairly jerky switching from throttle on to vacuum, or vice versa.
-
But this woman should probably actually try driving a manual car before she buys one. They can be a pain in the ass, especially in the city or in emergency situations.
Why?
In the extremely rare instances that you evade a nearly car-total crash and hospital, you can always start the engine new. I would be surprised if that situation happens to anyone so frequently that they get angry about this detail.
And in the city I like that I can say how much braking my engine should do (and also saving on fuel). I don't see your problem.
I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. I'll make my points more clear:
Manuals can be more dangerous if you suddenly need to accelerate, like an unexpected lane ending. My little yaris doesn't pull in fifth gear very well. It's better to simply be able to stand on the accelerator rather than downshift twice.
In traffic, stop and go is rough on the clutch and often first gear is fairly jerky switching from throttle on to vacuum, or vice versa.
I find automatics more dangerous for the same reason
I was in a rental kia soul and tried to clear an intersection, and when I punched it instead of shifting it just revved up to the rev limiter in first gear and I went nowhere fast
I like having direct mechanical control over my drivetrain, but it's about knowing your vehicle either way, neither is really bad, both are fine
I'll grant that stop and go is harder on a clutch
But you can't bump start an automatic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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I'll make my points more clear:
Manuals can be more dangerous if you suddenly need to accelerate, like an unexpected lane ending. My little yaris doesn't pull in fifth gear very well. It's better to simply be able to stand on the accelerator rather than downshift twice.
In traffic, stop and go is rough on the clutch and often first gear is fairly jerky switching from throttle on to vacuum, or vice versa.
Sorry, I still don't get it. And I have driven a manual for nearly two decades now. (In mustachian amount though)
If you have a manual, you can go down the gear from 5th to 3rd, in an automatic you can't?? (I have never driven one; also I drive a car that has no "good" acceleration in any gear ;) ) So an automatic would actually be worse in that situation?
Regarding the Burger Places, the guys at BoingBoing must read this thread, not the first time they have a post nailing the current topic:
https://boingboing.net/2019/08/23/dataviz-of-burger-satisfaction.html
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But this woman should probably actually try driving a manual car before she buys one. They can be a pain in the ass, especially in the city or in emergency situations.
Why?
In the extremely rare instances that you evade a nearly car-total crash and hospital, you can always start the engine new. I would be surprised if that situation happens to anyone so frequently that they get angry about this detail.
And in the city I like that I can say how much braking my engine should do (and also saving on fuel). I don't see your problem.
I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. I'll make my points more clear:
Manuals can be more dangerous if you suddenly need to accelerate, like an unexpected lane ending. My little yaris doesn't pull in fifth gear very well. It's better to simply be able to stand on the accelerator rather than downshift twice.
In traffic, stop and go is rough on the clutch and often first gear is fairly jerky switching from throttle on to vacuum, or vice versa.
I find automatics more dangerous for the same reason
I was in a rental kia soul and tried to clear an intersection, and when I punched it instead of shifting it just revved up to the rev limiter in first gear and I went nowhere fast
I like having direct mechanical control over my drivetrain, but it's about knowing your vehicle either way, neither is really bad, both are fine
I'll grant that stop and go is harder on a clutch
But you can't bump start an automatic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I would be surprised if any cars made in the last 15 years could be bump started. The Honda b series was the last holdout for points ignition iirc. Most modern engines use coil on plug and they require ecu voltage.
Maybe a modern diesel but I think they have two stage fuel pumps and that is probably computer controlled too.
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I'll make my points more clear:
Manuals can be more dangerous if you suddenly need to accelerate, like an unexpected lane ending. My little yaris doesn't pull in fifth gear very well. It's better to simply be able to stand on the accelerator rather than downshift twice.
In traffic, stop and go is rough on the clutch and often first gear is fairly jerky switching from throttle on to vacuum, or vice versa.
Sorry, I still don't get it. And I have driven a manual for nearly two decades now. (In mustachian amount though)
If you have a manual, you can go down the gear from 5th to 3rd, in an automatic you can't?? (I have never driven one; also I drive a car that has no "good" acceleration in any gear ;) ) So an automatic would actually be worse in that situation?
Regarding the Burger Places, the guys at BoingBoing must read this thread, not the first time they have a post nailing the current topic:
https://boingboing.net/2019/08/23/dataviz-of-burger-satisfaction.html
His point was automatics automatically downshift for you
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I'll make my points more clear:
Manuals can be more dangerous if you suddenly need to accelerate, like an unexpected lane ending. My little yaris doesn't pull in fifth gear very well. It's better to simply be able to stand on the accelerator rather than downshift twice.
In traffic, stop and go is rough on the clutch and often first gear is fairly jerky switching from throttle on to vacuum, or vice versa.
Sorry, I still don't get it. And I have driven a manual for nearly two decades now. (In mustachian amount though)
If you have a manual, you can go down the gear from 5th to 3rd, in an automatic you can't?? (I have never driven one; also I drive a car that has no "good" acceleration in any gear ;) ) So an automatic would actually be worse in that situation?
Regarding the Burger Places, the guys at BoingBoing must read this thread, not the first time they have a post nailing the current topic:
https://boingboing.net/2019/08/23/dataviz-of-burger-satisfaction.html
Standing on the gas in an auto will downshift pretty fast. And the torque converters already loading up. Plus it requires less thinking.
Not a likely scenario, but it happened to me a couple months ago when I tired, on an unusual road and a merge sign was missing.
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But this woman should probably actually try driving a manual car before she buys one. They can be a pain in the ass, especially in the city or in emergency situations.
Why?
In the extremely rare instances that you evade a nearly car-total crash and hospital, you can always start the engine new. I would be surprised if that situation happens to anyone so frequently that they get angry about this detail.
And in the city I like that I can say how much braking my engine should do (and also saving on fuel). I don't see your problem.
I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. I'll make my points more clear:
Manuals can be more dangerous if you suddenly need to accelerate, like an unexpected lane ending. My little yaris doesn't pull in fifth gear very well. It's better to simply be able to stand on the accelerator rather than downshift twice.
In traffic, stop and go is rough on the clutch and often first gear is fairly jerky switching from throttle on to vacuum, or vice versa.
I find automatics more dangerous for the same reason
I was in a rental kia soul and tried to clear an intersection, and when I punched it instead of shifting it just revved up to the rev limiter in first gear and I went nowhere fast
I like having direct mechanical control over my drivetrain, but it's about knowing your vehicle either way, neither is really bad, both are fine
I'll grant that stop and go is harder on a clutch
But you can't bump start an automatic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I would be surprised if any cars made in the last 15 years could be bump started. The Honda b series was the last holdout for points ignition iirc. Most modern engines use coil on plug and they require ecu voltage.
Maybe a modern diesel but I think they have two stage fuel pumps and that is probably computer controlled too.
I have bumpstarted my 2018 honda fit
Key just has to be on
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But this woman should probably actually try driving a manual car before she buys one. They can be a pain in the ass, especially in the city or in emergency situations.
Why?
In the extremely rare instances that you evade a nearly car-total crash and hospital, you can always start the engine new. I would be surprised if that situation happens to anyone so frequently that they get angry about this detail.
And in the city I like that I can say how much braking my engine should do (and also saving on fuel). I don't see your problem.
I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. I'll make my points more clear:
Manuals can be more dangerous if you suddenly need to accelerate, like an unexpected lane ending. My little yaris doesn't pull in fifth gear very well. It's better to simply be able to stand on the accelerator rather than downshift twice.
In traffic, stop and go is rough on the clutch and often first gear is fairly jerky switching from throttle on to vacuum, or vice versa.
I find automatics more dangerous for the same reason
I was in a rental kia soul and tried to clear an intersection, and when I punched it instead of shifting it just revved up to the rev limiter in first gear and I went nowhere fast
I like having direct mechanical control over my drivetrain, but it's about knowing your vehicle either way, neither is really bad, both are fine
I'll grant that stop and go is harder on a clutch
But you can't bump start an automatic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I would be surprised if any cars made in the last 15 years could be bump started. The Honda b series was the last holdout for points ignition iirc. Most modern engines use coil on plug and they require ecu voltage.
Maybe a modern diesel but I think they have two stage fuel pumps and that is probably computer controlled too.
I have bumpstarted my 2018 honda fit
Key just has to be on
How dead was the battery?
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But this woman should probably actually try driving a manual car before she buys one. They can be a pain in the ass, especially in the city or in emergency situations.
Why?
In the extremely rare instances that you evade a nearly car-total crash and hospital, you can always start the engine new. I would be surprised if that situation happens to anyone so frequently that they get angry about this detail.
And in the city I like that I can say how much braking my engine should do (and also saving on fuel). I don't see your problem.
I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. I'll make my points more clear:
Manuals can be more dangerous if you suddenly need to accelerate, like an unexpected lane ending. My little yaris doesn't pull in fifth gear very well. It's better to simply be able to stand on the accelerator rather than downshift twice.
In traffic, stop and go is rough on the clutch and often first gear is fairly jerky switching from throttle on to vacuum, or vice versa.
I find automatics more dangerous for the same reason
I was in a rental kia soul and tried to clear an intersection, and when I punched it instead of shifting it just revved up to the rev limiter in first gear and I went nowhere fast
I like having direct mechanical control over my drivetrain, but it's about knowing your vehicle either way, neither is really bad, both are fine
I'll grant that stop and go is harder on a clutch
But you can't bump start an automatic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I would be surprised if any cars made in the last 15 years could be bump started. The Honda b series was the last holdout for points ignition iirc. Most modern engines use coil on plug and they require ecu voltage.
Maybe a modern diesel but I think they have two stage fuel pumps and that is probably computer controlled too.
I have bumpstarted my 2018 honda fit
Key just has to be on
How dead was the battery?
Hmm... Not dead at all, as I was just messing around and getting infinitely good gas mileage going downhill... Now I'm curious
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I was guessing the “danger” is someone needs to drive you to the hospital but you are the only one who can drive manual
-
But this woman should probably actually try driving a manual car before she buys one. They can be a pain in the ass, especially in the city or in emergency situations.
Why?
In the extremely rare instances that you evade a nearly car-total crash and hospital, you can always start the engine new. I would be surprised if that situation happens to anyone so frequently that they get angry about this detail.
And in the city I like that I can say how much braking my engine should do (and also saving on fuel). I don't see your problem.
I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. I'll make my points more clear:
Manuals can be more dangerous if you suddenly need to accelerate, like an unexpected lane ending. My little yaris doesn't pull in fifth gear very well. It's better to simply be able to stand on the accelerator rather than downshift twice.
In traffic, stop and go is rough on the clutch and often first gear is fairly jerky switching from throttle on to vacuum, or vice versa.
I find automatics more dangerous for the same reason
I was in a rental kia soul and tried to clear an intersection, and when I punched it instead of shifting it just revved up to the rev limiter in first gear and I went nowhere fast
I like having direct mechanical control over my drivetrain, but it's about knowing your vehicle either way, neither is really bad, both are fine
I'll grant that stop and go is harder on a clutch
But you can't bump start an automatic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I would be surprised if any cars made in the last 15 years could be bump started. The Honda b series was the last holdout for points ignition iirc. Most modern engines use coil on plug and they require ecu voltage.
Maybe a modern diesel but I think they have two stage fuel pumps and that is probably computer controlled too.
I have bumpstarted my 2018 honda fit
Key just has to be on
How dead was the battery?
Hmm... Not dead at all, as I was just messing around and getting infinitely good gas mileage going downhill... Now I'm curious
If your battery has a charge but the starter won't run, you should be able to get the car to fire assuming the ecu doesn't lock out since the start position at the key is not being used.
I'm not 100% certain you can't push start a new car with a dead battery.
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Personally I like the control of a manual for when I need to accelerate quickly or, more likely, slow down or otherwise have a lot of control around corners or up and down hills.
The engine braking is something I especially prefer because I feel it gives a lot more control to downshift going down a hill than just relying on coasting and the brakes. The manuals I tend to get as rental cars don’t seem to choose the gear I would want.
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I was guessing the “danger” is someone needs to drive you to the hospital but you are the only one who can drive manual
My husband worried about that sort of scenario when I was biking to work late in pregnancy. I pointed out that Lyft and ambulances were things. ;)
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I was guessing the “danger” is someone needs to drive you to the hospital but you are the only one who can drive manual
My husband worried about that sort of scenario when I was biking to work late in pregnancy. I pointed out that Lyft and ambulances were things. ;)
That would be one heck of a story for the lyft driver!
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I really miss having a manual transmission.
I always had them prior to marrying my first husband. He was terrible at driving them, so I hated it when he drove my car as he would grind the gears and make me crazy. As a result, the next car I bought was an automatic. And since then I haven’t gone back to manual. The car I have now, I’ll drive into the ground, and I am hoping to have a good long time before that happens. It’s in good shape, and I don’t drive much anymore.
I may never have a manual again. Sigh...
Get yourself a motorcycle! Win/win!
Ha! Yeah, I havd had them in the past, and I must admit to some pangs of desire to get another one as of late. Not very mustachian, though, as totally unnecessary.
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I was guessing the “danger” is someone needs to drive you to the hospital but you are the only one who can drive manual
My husband worried about that sort of scenario when I was biking to work late in pregnancy. I pointed out that Lyft and ambulances were things. ;)
That would be one heck of a story for the lyft driver!
I heard a story on NPR the other day that Uber and Lyft drivers in the US are increasingly being called by people needing to go to the hospital who can’t afford an ambulance. Sounds like it’s becoming frequent enough that the above scenario might not be all that amazing.
Horrible position for an Uber/Lyft driver to be in, answering a call and being confronted by a very sick or wounded person needing to go to the emergency room. Man, our system is messed up.
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Previous pregnancy my water broke just before midnight and I was going to drive myself to the hospital, but my husband called me a Lyft. I told the driver to go to Kaiser and she casually asked if I was going to work. I just as casually replied “no” and I could tell from her driving that she wanted to drop me the heck off. Once we arrived I just as casually mentioned that the only entrance open at midnight was the emergency room, so she might as well drop me there (truth). But I was fine and walked up to L&D with no incident.
It seemed to make more sense to pay $40 for Lyft than $x,000 for an ambulance when it wasn’t really an emergency.
But yes, our system is f-ed up.
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It seemed to make more sense to pay $40 for Lyft than $x,000 for an ambulance when it wasn’t really an emergency.
But yes, our system is f-ed up.
I don't think that's f-ed up. The more people who take ambulances for non-emergencies the more expensive ambulances will be for the people who need it. If you don't need a rolling hospital to transport you, take a cab why not?
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It seemed to make more sense to pay $40 for Lyft than $x,000 for an ambulance when it wasn’t really an emergency.
But yes, our system is f-ed up.
I don't think that's f-ed up. The more people who take ambulances for non-emergencies the more expensive ambulances will be for the people who need it. If you don't need a rolling hospital to transport you, take a cab why not?
That in and of itself isn't messed up
What's messed up is when you DO need a rolling hospital, then the insurance company says both the cab and the ER they took you to were out of network, please pay bleventeen thousand dollars for your emergency appendectomy (or for crashing your car and breaking multiple ribs)
What's ALSO messed up, is when ambulances are free but they take multiple hours to arrive and the woman ends up giving birth before getting to the hospital, which I saw happen to a couple that decided to give birth in Norway, so I'm not totally on the socialized healthcare bandwagon
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It seemed to make more sense to pay $40 for Lyft than $x,000 for an ambulance when it wasn’t really an emergency.
But yes, our system is f-ed up.
I don't think that's f-ed up. The more people who take ambulances for non-emergencies the more expensive ambulances will be for the people who need it. If you don't need a rolling hospital to transport you, take a cab why not?
That in and of itself isn't messed up
What's messed up is when you DO need a rolling hospital, then the insurance company says both the cab and the ER they took you to were out of network, please pay bleventeen thousand dollars for your emergency appendectomy (or for crashing your car and breaking multiple ribs)
What's ALSO messed up, is when ambulances are free but they take multiple hours to arrive and the woman ends up giving birth before getting to the hospital, which I saw happen to a couple that decided to give birth in Norway, so I'm not totally on the socialized healthcare bandwagon
For every $1.00 billed, they can count on not collecting $0.65. The result is that responsible people and insurance companies are expected to make up the difference.
Officials in Washington DC recently did some investigations that show around 70% of ambulance calls are for non-emergencies, and an ambulance trip costs $300-$400 (wages, vehicle expenses, supplies, insurances, etc...). That money has to come from somewhere if people continue to abuse the system. As an aside, insurance is required to cover your ER visit if you have a real emergency. By law.
The problem is people abuse the system and take an ambulance to the hospital for a sore throat or sprained ankle, and don't pay the bill. No pay = no service.
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The problem is people abuse the system and take an ambulance to the hospital for a sore throat or sprained ankle, and don't pay the bill. No pay = no service.
Ugh, this falls into the "eating out at restaurants is a waste of time" category. Like if I have a sore throat I want to be sitting in the ER waiting room for a couple hours so a doctor can tell me to go home and rest?
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I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. I'll make my points more clear:
Manuals can be more dangerous if you suddenly need to accelerate, like an unexpected lane ending. My little yaris doesn't pull in fifth gear very well. It's better to simply be able to stand on the accelerator rather than downshift twice.
In traffic, stop and go is rough on the clutch and often first gear is fairly jerky switching from throttle on to vacuum, or vice versa.
You know you can skip gears, right? And automatic transmissions on cheap cars are horrible too,
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I can understand private school when it fills a clear need that public does not. The public closest to us is 80% English language learners/subsidized or free lunch, so most parents who are more affluent and educated choose something else for their kids. Whether there really is a need there or not, I have no personal experience. I could be convinced that if the majority of the school population has one set of needs and your kid has a different set of needs, the kid may be netter served elsewhere. Who knows?
The second biggest need in my area that sends kids to private school is language immersion. We have a pretty diverse set of neighbors who send their kids to school in Spanish, German, French, and Mandarin. We are lucky to have found a public Mandarin program but no French or German in public yet. With one kid it probably doesn’t make a big difference but once you have two or three kids, it seems to me you would be better off selling and moving someplace that offers what you need in the public system, even if you have to pay a good bit more for housing there.
I don't understand why parents would, on the one hand, not want their children to go to school with bilingual kids ("English language learners") and then on the other hand send their kids to an immersion school where those same kids will be be bilingual and going to school in a language that they themselves are weak in ie they will be "Mandarin language learners" or whatever.
Although my kids were born here in Italy I guess you could say that they are Italian language learners as we speak 90% English at home and most media, reading etc is in English. My kids go to a heavily immigrant school and the majority of kids in both of their classes are "Italian language learners" just like my kids. I see no negative side to this. IMO bilingualism is a strength not a weakness. I'm glad my kids are bilingual and I'm glad that they go to school with kids who speak a zillion different languages at home. The kids who get the best grades in the class in Italian are both bilingual BTW.
It's the culture and poverty that comes with 80% sub lunches and english language learners. Bad personal habits of the parents, gangs, drug use, property crime, violence. Bilingualism for the win, but cultural issues make it a net loss all the way around.
Just a matter of values.
Buddy of mine is of Mexican descent and his kids speak Spanish. He makes very good money (like, living large in a HCOL area kind of money) sends his kids to public school. He sent them to public school when they lived in a small town in The Deep South, and he does it where he lives now.
Yes for sure! To each their own. I have friends who have purchased homes in some difficult neighborhoods. I visit and joke, "aren't you afraid to go outside?? Isn't everybody kidnapping everybody all the time??" They roll their eyes haha. Pretty funny.
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Yes for sure! To each their own. I have friends who have purchased homes in some difficult neighborhoods. I visit and joke, "aren't you afraid to go outside?? Isn't everybody kidnapping everybody all the time??" They roll their eyes haha. Pretty funny.
At mondays they roll the dice to decide on which day they get kidnapped.
Sunday is family day, so either you don't get kidnapped (kidnappers need a day off too) or you only get kidnapped with the whole family.
What's ALSO messed up, is when ambulances are free but they take multiple hours to arrive and the woman ends up giving birth before getting to the hospital, which I saw happen to a couple that decided to give birth in Norway, so I'm not totally on the socialized healthcare bandwagon
I have never heard of that (except in the case of the woman who had already called it a dozen times in the week before), but if it is so far outside that an ambulance needs hours or the heli isn't available (or no landing place) than it is also unlikely that a taxi is there.
If it is not far outside, than someone from management needs too be seriously slapped for not doing their duty. In "socialized medicine" you can at least do that. In "capitalized medicine" it was just the free market letting you sit there. Go on, nothing to be seen.
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What's ALSO messed up, is when ambulances are free but they take multiple hours to arrive and the woman ends up giving birth before getting to the hospital, which I saw happen to a couple that decided to give birth in Norway, so I'm not totally on the socialized healthcare bandwagon
Sounds like every emergency in Alaska.
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What's ALSO messed up, is when ambulances are free but they take multiple hours to arrive and the woman ends up giving birth before getting to the hospital, which I saw happen to a couple that decided to give birth in Norway, so I'm not totally on the socialized healthcare bandwagon
Sounds like every emergency in Alaska.
And Norway is just as remote in many places. If you choose to live in a remote location, you know what the consequences can be.
In my country (not Norway, to be clear) it's a law that a woman in labour has to be able to reach a hospital within 45 minutes of making the call. Which means that some islands have a heli permanently on standby to make sure that happens. Of course there's also some responsability on the woman to contact the emergency services in time - if you live in a big city next to a hospital like I do you can wait a little bit but if you live on an island you can't postpone calling until you are completely in labour. I'm sure sometimes happens that babies are born at home or in the heli, because labour can go fast. But that's the risk you take by choosing to live in a remote place. Of course heli and ambulance rides are not charged. We believe it's a civil duty to help someone in urgent need - if you don't you may be committing a crime.
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What's ALSO messed up, is when ambulances are free but they take multiple hours to arrive and the woman ends up giving birth before getting to the hospital, which I saw happen to a couple that decided to give birth in Norway, so I'm not totally on the socialized healthcare bandwagon
Sounds like every emergency in Alaska.
And Norway is just as remote in many places. If you choose to live in a remote location, you know what the consequences can be.
In my country (not Norway, to be clear) it's a law that a woman in labour has to be able to reach a hospital within 45 minutes of making the call. Which means that some islands have a heli permanently on standby to make sure that happens. Of course there's also some responsability on the woman to contact the emergency services in time - if you live in a big city next to a hospital like I do you can wait a little bit but if you live on an island you can't postpone calling until you are completely in labour. I'm sure sometimes happens that babies are born at home or in the heli, because labour can go fast. But that's the risk you take by choosing to live in a remote place. Of course heli and ambulance rides are not charged. We believe it's a civil duty to help someone in urgent need - if you don't you may be committing a crime.
In Norway they are closing down more and more small, local hospitals that let women give birth locally. The women there are of course protesting against the closing down, because they didn't sign up for living far away from a hospital.
On Spitsbergen, you may not stay on the Island during the last months of your pregnancy. There is no hospital there and they don't want you to give birth on the commercial flights. So you need to stay on the mainland for the last 6-8 weeks (don't remember exactly how long).
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Previous pregnancy my water broke just before midnight and I was going to drive myself to the hospital, but my husband called me a Lyft. I told the driver to go to Kaiser and she casually asked if I was going to work. I just as casually replied “no” and I could tell from her driving that she wanted to drop me the heck off. Once we arrived I just as casually mentioned that the only entrance open at midnight was the emergency room, so she might as well drop me there (truth). But I was fine and walked up to L&D with no incident.
It seemed to make more sense to pay $40 for Lyft than $x,000 for an ambulance when it wasn’t really an emergency.
But yes, our system is f-ed up.
When my wife said she thought it was time, ( I wasn't sure) I made her drive and I also drove, so I could go to work if she didn't have a baby, she did. It's been 27 years, she won't let me forget. :-)
Expectant husbands---it's not a good idea!
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What's ALSO messed up, is when ambulances are free but they take multiple hours to arrive and the woman ends up giving birth before getting to the hospital, which I saw happen to a couple that decided to give birth in Norway, so I'm not totally on the socialized healthcare bandwagon
Sounds like every emergency in Alaska.
And Norway is just as remote in many places. If you choose to live in a remote location, you know what the consequences can be.
In my country (not Norway, to be clear) it's a law that a woman in labour has to be able to reach a hospital within 45 minutes of making the call. Which means that some islands have a heli permanently on standby to make sure that happens. Of course there's also some responsability on the woman to contact the emergency services in time - if you live in a big city next to a hospital like I do you can wait a little bit but if you live on an island you can't postpone calling until you are completely in labour. I'm sure sometimes happens that babies are born at home or in the heli, because labour can go fast. But that's the risk you take by choosing to live in a remote place. Of course heli and ambulance rides are not charged. We believe it's a civil duty to help someone in urgent need - if you don't you may be committing a crime.
In Norway they are closing down more and more small, local hospitals that let women give birth locally. The women there are of course protesting against the closing down, because they didn't sign up for living far away from a hospital.
On Spitsbergen, you may not stay on the Island during the last months of your pregnancy. There is no hospital there and they don't want you to give birth on the commercial flights. So you need to stay on the mainland for the last 6-8 weeks (don't remember exactly how long).
The rules you mentioned for Spitsbergen also cover other remote area in the north. We have no 45 minutes rules, it is simply not possible with the distances and weather we have. So pregnant women have to move closer to the hospitals (or find a midwife willing to go to them) for the last few months.
Some of the hospitals that are being closed down had so few births the doctors were dangerously out of training. Don’t ask me how I know.
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Their politics are indeed questionable. The fact that they have food service down to a perfected science, is pretty indisputable.
You'd think they'd be vulnerable to somebody else copying their customer service experience, but for some reason that escapes me I continue to get comparativley sub-par service everywhere else
(It's been 2 years since my last visit, but it's still the benchmark)
Chipotle, please take a hint
They do have service down to a science. I've noticed over the past couple of years that otherlocal drive-thru businesses are copying CFA with the extra greetings and thanks. Competition can be good for the customer.
Tough business. I witnessed a lady at a Wendy's act like a three year old b/c they were out of something. Husband ushered her out of the store before it got any worse. Workers kept their poker faces despite the tantrum.
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If your battery has a charge but the starter won't run, you should be able to get the car to fire assuming the ecu doesn't lock out since the start position at the key is not being used.
I'm not 100% certain you can't push start a new car with a dead battery.
The fuel pump, ECU, and ignition needs much less power than the starter. As long as you can power those things minus the starter, you can roll start a manual even in 2019.
We own several manual transmissions (gearhead family). The modern automatic is a nice thing but I still prefer a manual except about once a year when I go to a certain crowded town for a car show.
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If your battery has a charge but the starter won't run, you should be able to get the car to fire assuming the ecu doesn't lock out since the start position at the key is not being used.
I'm not 100% certain you can't push start a new car with a dead battery.
The fuel pump, ECU, and ignition needs much less power than the starter. As long as you can power those things minus the starter, you can roll start a manual even in 2019.
We own several manual transmissions (gearhead family). The modern automatic is a nice thing but I still prefer a manual except about once a year when I go to a certain crowded town for a car show.
Good to know. My 03 Corolla had a manual headlight switch and coil-on-plug ignition. I once left the lights on and couldn't push start it. Most modern cars probably have timers to shut the headlights off to prevent this.
But it still means you need adequate voltage at the ecu, something you didn't need with a points ignition.
I keep jumper cables in my car at all times anyway.
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I miss my late eighties ('86??) CRX-si. That sucker was so much fun to drive. I think Car & Driver called it a wolf in sheep's clothing, and it was. I also loved that I could easily fit my bike and gear in the hatchback.
I learned to drive a stick on a late '70's BMW 2002tii. Good memories.
And now back to our regularly scheduled topic...
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But this woman should probably actually try driving a manual car before she buys one. They can be a pain in the ass, especially in the city or in emergency situations.
Why?
In the extremely rare instances that you evade a nearly car-total crash and hospital, you can always start the engine new. I would be surprised if that situation happens to anyone so frequently that they get angry about this detail.
And in the city I like that I can say how much braking my engine should do (and also saving on fuel). I don't see your problem.
I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. I'll make my points more clear:
Manuals can be more dangerous if you suddenly need to accelerate, like an unexpected lane ending. My little yaris doesn't pull in fifth gear very well. It's better to simply be able to stand on the accelerator rather than downshift twice.
In traffic, stop and go is rough on the clutch and often first gear is fairly jerky switching from throttle on to vacuum, or vice versa.
Are you aware you don't need to downshift twice? You can safely skip a gear when downshifting as long as you're within that gear's range. The same is true for upshifting (but you'll always be in the gear's range when going up.
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Good to know. My 03 Corolla had a manual headlight switch and coil-on-plug ignition. I once left the lights on and couldn't push start it. Most modern cars probably have timers to shut the headlights off to prevent this.
But it still means you need adequate voltage at the ecu, something you didn't need with a points ignition.
I keep jumper cables in my car at all times anyway.
Oh the old cars are great for someone that likes to do the maintenance like me. I'm so glad that the modern car needs so little attention. I remember as a kid some people driving around in cars that needed a tune-up (adjustments) badly but owners back then were alot like some owners now - they ignore the car until the car won't start. Excessive tail pipe pollution and oil slicks on wet roads from leaky gaskets and crankcase vents.
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I currently have an employee who is FREAKING OUT because she was overpaid by 3 hours on the last paycheque, and therefore will be underpaid by 3 hours this coming paycheque (so that, at the end of the month, the total equals the correct amount, in short).
"But this means my car insurance won't go through!!!"
Like. Kid. You've already gotten the money. The money for your car insurance is literally sitting in your bank account, unless you went on a spending spree (waaaaaaitaminute, I see the problem). The money is actually yours, and you have it, what the hell.
And this is someone who is fairly paid for their level of experience and education, making over 40K in a LCOL area. No mortgage, no kids, no student loans, and I know her parents, they're doing ok and she's not subsidizing family.
????? I do not understand.
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I currently have an employee who is FREAKING OUT because she was overpaid by 3 hours on the last paycheque, and therefore will be underpaid by 3 hours this coming paycheque (so that, at the end of the month, the total equals the correct amount, in short).
"But this means my car insurance won't go through!!!"
Like. Kid. You've already gotten the money. The money for your car insurance is literally sitting in your bank account, unless you went on a spending spree (waaaaaaitaminute, I see the problem). The money is actually yours, and you have it, what the hell.
And this is someone who is fairly paid for their level of experience and education, making over 40K in a LCOL area. No mortgage, no kids, no student loans, and I know her parents, they're doing ok and she's not subsidizing family.
????? I do not understand.
Wow. That's as dumb as the folks who get paid monthly, but their boss pays them a week early before Christmas just to be nice, and they can't figure out how the money will last an extra week...
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I currently have an employee who is FREAKING OUT because she was overpaid by 3 hours on the last paycheque, and therefore will be underpaid by 3 hours this coming paycheque (so that, at the end of the month, the total equals the correct amount, in short).
"But this means my car insurance won't go through!!!"
Like. Kid. You've already gotten the money. The money for your car insurance is literally sitting in your bank account, unless you went on a spending spree (waaaaaaitaminute, I see the problem). The money is actually yours, and you have it, what the hell.
And this is someone who is fairly paid for their level of experience and education, making over 40K in a LCOL area. No mortgage, no kids, no student loans, and I know her parents, they're doing ok and she's not subsidizing family.
????? I do not understand.
Wow. That's as dumb as the folks who get paid monthly, but their boss pays them a week early before Christmas just to be nice, and they can't figure out how the money will last an extra week...
I mean, I could understand (I wouldn't have that much sympathy, but I could understand and would try to mitigate it) if she was going to be underpaid for the month, and money was just that tight. Like, ok, that happens, you're owed money, we'll get you the money you're owed, no problem.
But OMG SHE HAS THE MONEY. What she does with it once it's in her account is not my problem - my (legal, and ethical) responsibility is to ensure that she is paid what she is owed, which she has been!! At that point, what she does with it is officially her problem.
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Previous pregnancy my water broke just before midnight and I was going to drive myself to the hospital, but my husband called me a Lyft. I told the driver to go to Kaiser and she casually asked if I was going to work. I just as casually replied “no” and I could tell from her driving that she wanted to drop me the heck off. Once we arrived I just as casually mentioned that the only entrance open at midnight was the emergency room, so she might as well drop me there (truth). But I was fine and walked up to L&D with no incident.
It seemed to make more sense to pay $40 for Lyft than $x,000 for an ambulance when it wasn’t really an emergency.
But yes, our system is f-ed up.
When my wife said she thought it was time, ( I wasn't sure) I made her drive and I also drove, so I could go to work if she didn't have a baby, she did. It's been 27 years, she won't let me forget. :-)
Expectant husbands---it's not a good idea!
dude not a good idea! When those contractions hit you can't do anything but roll with them. I'm glad she didn't get in an accident on the way there. Reminds me of guys having heart attacks driving themselves to the hospital. My sister's former teacher did that; they found his body in his car in the parking lot of the hospital a couple days later (well he almost made it).
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I currently have an employee who is FREAKING OUT because she was overpaid by 3 hours on the last paycheque, and therefore will be underpaid by 3 hours this coming paycheque (so that, at the end of the month, the total equals the correct amount, in short).
"But this means my car insurance won't go through!!!"
Like. Kid. You've already gotten the money. The money for your car insurance is literally sitting in your bank account, unless you went on a spending spree (waaaaaaitaminute, I see the problem). The money is actually yours, and you have it, what the hell.
And this is someone who is fairly paid for their level of experience and education, making over 40K in a LCOL area. No mortgage, no kids, no student loans, and I know her parents, they're doing ok and she's not subsidizing family.
????? I do not understand.
I've had employees lose their shit when 1/2 hour was missing from their pay and that they would need to wait until the next week to get it corrected ..... less than $8 before deductions.
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We had a similar story like that at work this month. Due to reasons that were known to him for months in advance, we had to deduction a 3-figure sum from a guy's paycheck. His HR contact was sloppy and didn't inform him it was going to be this month, for which HR was repriemanded and apologies were given. But this doesn't change anything about the deduction, which was correct and expected. Guy is really pissed off now and forwarding letters that his mortgage wasn't paid this month and he's in big financial trouble now. Mind you this is not exactly a minimum wage earner.
Of course this situation sucks and the HR contact really messed up here, but I'm shocked that an expected 3-figure deduction directly leads to missing a mortgage payment for someone who earns an above average wage. Seems this guy doesn't even have €1000 in savings or even a credit card or overdraft facility he can use to pay such an important bill from.
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But this woman should probably actually try driving a manual car before she buys one. They can be a pain in the ass, especially in the city or in emergency situations.
Why?
In the extremely rare instances that you evade a nearly car-total crash and hospital, you can always start the engine new. I would be surprised if that situation happens to anyone so frequently that they get angry about this detail.
And in the city I like that I can say how much braking my engine should do (and also saving on fuel). I don't see your problem.
I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. I'll make my points more clear:
Manuals can be more dangerous if you suddenly need to accelerate, like an unexpected lane ending. My little yaris doesn't pull in fifth gear very well. It's better to simply be able to stand on the accelerator rather than downshift twice.
In traffic, stop and go is rough on the clutch and often first gear is fairly jerky switching from throttle on to vacuum, or vice versa.
Are you aware you don't need to downshift twice? You can safely skip a gear when downshifting as long as you're within that gear's range. The same is true for upshifting (but you'll always be in the gear's range when going up.
I thought the synchros might not appreciate this but I guess I was wrong.
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You can downshift to any gear if you can get the RPMs high enough to match the new lower gear.
You could downshift to 1st gear at highway speeds if your engine could tolerate 21,000 rpm.
Exaggerating a little there. I'd hate to load the transmission at those kinds of RPMs. Not sure what would happen if the driver wasn't very, very smooth about it. Don't know if the transmission explode. Sort of light trying to run 500 HP through a transmission designed for 150 HP. Things flex, things break, things bend. Might work the first few times and then break.
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Usually if you shift too low you’ll feel some grinding in the synchros well before you can even get the shifter in place, let alone let out the clutch. Either way, it’s easily possible to shift from 6th or 5th directly into 3rd. The car can handle it just fine, but if you don’t rev the engine the guy tailgating you is going to be pissed.
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I currently have an employee who is FREAKING OUT because she was overpaid by 3 hours on the last paycheque, and therefore will be underpaid by 3 hours this coming paycheque (so that, at the end of the month, the total equals the correct amount, in short).
"But this means my car insurance won't go through!!!"
Like. Kid. You've already gotten the money. The money for your car insurance is literally sitting in your bank account, unless you went on a spending spree (waaaaaaitaminute, I see the problem). The money is actually yours, and you have it, what the hell.
And this is someone who is fairly paid for their level of experience and education, making over 40K in a LCOL area. No mortgage, no kids, no student loans, and I know her parents, they're doing ok and she's not subsidizing family.
????? I do not understand.
Wow. That's as dumb as the folks who get paid monthly, but their boss pays them a week early before Christmas just to be nice, and they can't figure out how the money will last an extra week...
Jesus, that’s incredibly crazy and sad.
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Usually if you shift too low you’ll feel some grinding in the synchros well before you can even get the shifter in place, let alone let out the clutch. Either way, it’s easily possible to shift from 6th or 5th directly into 3rd. The car can handle it just fine, but if you don’t rev the engine the guy tailgating you is going to be pissed.
Apparently shifting from 6th to 2nd at 70- 80mph on the Autoroute (France, kinda an Interstate highway) will break something.
It wasn't me but I don't think the rental company liked us after that. And other issues...... :-)
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But this woman should probably actually try driving a manual car before she buys one. They can be a pain in the ass, especially in the city or in emergency situations.
Why?
In the extremely rare instances that you evade a nearly car-total crash and hospital, you can always start the engine new. I would be surprised if that situation happens to anyone so frequently that they get angry about this detail.
And in the city I like that I can say how much braking my engine should do (and also saving on fuel). I don't see your problem.
I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. I'll make my points more clear:
Manuals can be more dangerous if you suddenly need to accelerate, like an unexpected lane ending. My little yaris doesn't pull in fifth gear very well. It's better to simply be able to stand on the accelerator rather than downshift twice.
In traffic, stop and go is rough on the clutch and often first gear is fairly jerky switching from throttle on to vacuum, or vice versa.
Are you aware you don't need to downshift twice? You can safely skip a gear when downshifting as long as you're within that gear's range. The same is true for upshifting (but you'll always be in the gear's range when going up.
I have been driving a manual gear all my adult life. Yesterday I borrowed a car and it turned out to be an automatic gear, which didn't have a gear pedal. First I panicked a bit, because I was in a hurry and this came as a surprise. But I figured out that R probably meant Reverse, N most likely Neutral and then I choose to put it into D instead of S. After driving for 5 minutes, I figured out that D probably meant Drive. I still don't know what the S was for, though.
It went well, as there isn't so much you can do wrong with an automatic gear.
I can only try to imagine how it must be for some of you to drive a manual gear for the first time.
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But this woman should probably actually try driving a manual car before she buys one. They can be a pain in the ass, especially in the city or in emergency situations.
Why?
In the extremely rare instances that you evade a nearly car-total crash and hospital, you can always start the engine new. I would be surprised if that situation happens to anyone so frequently that they get angry about this detail.
And in the city I like that I can say how much braking my engine should do (and also saving on fuel). I don't see your problem.
I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. I'll make my points more clear:
Manuals can be more dangerous if you suddenly need to accelerate, like an unexpected lane ending. My little yaris doesn't pull in fifth gear very well. It's better to simply be able to stand on the accelerator rather than downshift twice.
In traffic, stop and go is rough on the clutch and often first gear is fairly jerky switching from throttle on to vacuum, or vice versa.
Are you aware you don't need to downshift twice? You can safely skip a gear when downshifting as long as you're within that gear's range. The same is true for upshifting (but you'll always be in the gear's range when going up.
I have been driving a manual gear all my adult life. Yesterday I borrowed a car and it turned out to be an automatic gear, which didn't have a gear pedal. First I panicked a bit, because I was in a hurry and this came as a surprise. But I figured out that R probably meant Reverse, N most likely Neutral and then I choose to put it into D instead of S. After driving for 5 minutes, I figured out that D probably meant Drive. I still don't know what the S was for, though.
It went well, as there isn't so much you can do wrong with an automatic gear.
I can only try to imagine how it must be for some of you to drive a manual gear for the first time.
S is for Slow. Good thing you didn't select that since you were in a hurry
Depending on the car, I prefer to put it in H
(https://i.imgur.com/BU5Ooxe.gif)
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I have been driving a manual gear all my adult life. Yesterday I borrowed a car and it turned out to be an automatic gear, which didn't have a gear pedal. First I panicked a bit, because I was in a hurry and this came as a surprise. But I figured out that R probably meant Reverse, N most likely Neutral and then I choose to put it into D instead of S. After driving for 5 minutes, I figured out that D probably meant Drive. I still don't know what the S was for, though.
It went well, as there isn't so much you can do wrong with an automatic gear.
I can only try to imagine how it must be for some of you to drive a manual gear for the first time.
I borrowed a friend's jeep to (re)learn to drive standard after 20 plus years. (Funny enough the last time I drove standard was when i worked in Norway, I drove the truck for the sewer department. The boss swore it was automatic... automatic choke, that is, as I found out after I arrived for the job).
The first two times in the Jeep, I was panicking a bit because the dash clearly said "N" and sometimes "S", and I was sure I was in first or even second or third gears... I kept trying to ignore it but I was confused and certain I had broken their car.
It turns out that Manual cars do not have a gear indicator on the dash, (I did not know that) but this one did have compass directions!
Aside...
The "S" is likely for second gear. In automatics, you can shift between D for drive, or force it to stay in second and first gear. Mainly for snow, rough roads, or to have the engine slow you on long downhills instead of the brakes.
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I have been driving a manual gear all my adult life. Yesterday I borrowed a car and it turned out to be an automatic gear, which didn't have a gear pedal. First I panicked a bit, because I was in a hurry and this came as a surprise. But I figured out that R probably meant Reverse, N most likely Neutral and then I choose to put it into D instead of S. After driving for 5 minutes, I figured out that D probably meant Drive. I still don't know what the S was for, though.
It went well, as there isn't so much you can do wrong with an automatic gear.
I can only try to imagine how it must be for some of you to drive a manual gear for the first time.
I borrowed a friend's jeep to (re)learn to drive standard after 20 plus years. (Funny enough the last time I drove standard was when i worked in Norway, I drove the truck for the sewer department. The boss swore it was automatic... automatic choke, that is, as I found out after I arrived for the job).
The first two times in the Jeep, I was panicking a bit because the dash clearly said "N" and sometimes "S", and I was sure I was in first or even second or third gears... I kept trying to ignore it but I was confused and certain I had broken their car.
It turns out that Manual cars do not have a gear indicator on the dash, (I did not know that) but this one did have compass directions!
Aside...
The "S" is likely for second gear. In automatics, you can shift between D for drive, or force it to stay in second and first gear. Mainly for snow, rough roads, or to have the engine slow you on long downhills instead of the brakes.
:-))
Modern manual gear cars have a digital gear indicator in the dashboard again. Our 2010 Subaru Outback has that. But before that, they didn't. I usually don't look at it, but just listen to the motor noise.
I remember manual chokes, that was a bit of a bother. Glad that has been automated today.
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I like driving stick and I'm pretty good with my shifts, I can even heel-toe in my little Yaris if I cram my feet together. My more general point is that, in some extreme cases, an auto can be better because in an emergency situation, more thinking generally is worse than less thinking. But it's an unlikely case, I admit.
I also did the math and found out I get approx. 41 mpg in my little car, so I'm pretty happy with that. Almost all highway miles of course.
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You can downshift to any gear if you can get the RPMs high enough to match the new lower gear.
You could downshift to 1st gear at highway speeds if your engine could tolerate 21,000 rpm.
Exaggerating a little there. I'd hate to load the transmission at those kinds of RPMs. Not sure what would happen if the driver wasn't very, very smooth about it. Don't know if the transmission explode. Sort of light trying to run 500 HP through a transmission designed for 150 HP. Things flex, things break, things bend. Might work the first few times and then break.
That would be what's called a mechanical over-rev. The typical result isn't damage to the transmission, but damage to the valvetrain. Valves will begin to float and the pistons will contact them. This equals bent valves, scored cams, damaged pistons, all kinds of bad things. I mechanically over-reved my car once, luckily the tires spun and I disengaged the clutch at 10,500 RPM (the computer records over-revs). THey say damage on that car begins around 11,000 RPM. I got lucky!
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Aside...
The "S" is likely for second gear. In automatics, you can shift between D for drive, or force it to stay in second and first gear. Mainly for snow, rough roads, or to have the engine slow you on long downhills instead of the brakes.
Likely, could also be "sport" to give some higher RPMs and slightly different handling.
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So....anyone have any overheard at work stories?
You know, in 18 months at my current job, I haven't overheard a single anti-mustachian conversation at work. I apparently work with a bunch of responsible adults. One even introduced me to MMM before retiring.
The nerve of some people!
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So....anyone have any overheard at work stories?
You know, in 18 months at my current job, I haven't overheard a single anti-mustachian conversation at work. I apparently work with a bunch of responsible adults. One even introduced me to MMM before retiring.
The nerve of some people!
Interesting. I wonder if he shared any stories about you before bringing you in :)
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I currently have an employee who is FREAKING OUT because she was overpaid by 3 hours on the last paycheque, and therefore will be underpaid by 3 hours this coming paycheque (so that, at the end of the month, the total equals the correct amount, in short).
"But this means my car insurance won't go through!!!"
Like. Kid. You've already gotten the money. The money for your car insurance is literally sitting in your bank account, unless you went on a spending spree (waaaaaaitaminute, I see the problem). The money is actually yours, and you have it, what the hell.
And this is someone who is fairly paid for their level of experience and education, making over 40K in a LCOL area. No mortgage, no kids, no student loans, and I know her parents, they're doing ok and she's not subsidizing family.
????? I do not understand.
Good grief what a mess.
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So....anyone have any overheard at work stories?
My coworker financed a used SUV two years ago from one of those sketchy used car places with high interest for people with bad credit. It developed a knock. He traded it in for another high interest used SUV because he didn't have the money to fix it.
I think I've mentioned him before in this thread. Has two adult children that don't work and a disabled wife that doesn't work.
I work at an RV dealer. No one has a money mustache. Except the 22 year old buying mutual funds, he seems to have his head on straight.
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This was a while ago and could probably be cross posted to the thread about horrible situations where people won’t be able to retire.
This is really overheard and I don’t know the surrounding circumstances to any of these stories; I heard her name but couldn’t pick her out of a lineup. Here’s what I pieced together.
She is a widow and taking care of at least two middle- or high-school aged grandchildren, at least one of whom has a probation officer and generally doesn’t seem to listen to her directions which sounded perfectly reasonable to me (stuff like go home, not to your friend’s place).
There was the time where she got a new vehicle (don’t know if it was brand new or used but new to her) but couldn’t immediately pay the insurance when she updated the policy.
And then there was the time where she called the credit union to tell them she wouldn’t be able to pay her mortgage that month. Sounded like the person who took the call didn’t know what to do with it. A few minutes later somebody else from the credit union calls her back and tells her she was actually a payment ahead so skipping the payment would just put her back on schedule.
The saddest situation I overheard, though, was when she was arguing with one of the grandkids when they wanted her to buy or pay for something and she said the only money she had was the “five bucks or whatever” that was in her wallet.
Didn’t sound like a good situation at all.
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Here's one overheard at the gym. Trainer who frequently mentions his Hellcat (and other cars he has owned) starts saying how a person is wasting money to pay cash for a car, because you'd be better to invest the $40k. So I say, you can't guarantee a return high enough to offset the car loan interest. He starts talking about investing in "spider" funds.
Him: Invest the 40k in a spider fund, then you'll have the car and 40k and the 10% per year investment return.
Me: You will have paid the 40k on the car loan, and only the amount of the investment return that is more than the loan interest.
Him: No, I put the 40k in the investment.
Me: You still had to pay the 40k in payments on the car.
Him: No, I put the 40k in the investment.
...
He didn't seem to understand that he was paying $40k + interest in the monthly car payments.
I had to google spider fund. He thinks he's got a 10% guarantee of an S&P 500 index.
I had to google Hellcat, too. Glad I didn't try to tell him about buying older used cars for real money savings.
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My workplace is big on work life balance and physical/mental/emotional health. So we all have access to a free gym and free weight room and a free dance studio and free exercise classes. Anyway, last week an email went out regarding spin classes at the work place. Only USD$100/session! And you have to sign up for 15 sessions minimum. At least 10 people signed up immediately. Some of those people have talked in the past about not saving enough money and joking about having to work until they’re old. I’m like, if you stopped spending $100/day on sessions, you might be able to retire earlier. These people also pay $4 for prepackaged veggie sticks, like a little box of to-go carrot and cucumber sticks.
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My workplace is big on work life balance and physical/mental/emotional health. So we all have access to a free gym and free weight room and a free dance studio and free exercise classes. Anyway, last week an email went out regarding spin classes at the work place. Only USD$100/session! And you have to sign up for 15 sessions minimum. At least 10 people signed up immediately. Some of those people have talked in the past about not saving enough money and joking about having to work until they’re old. I’m like, if you stopped spending $100/day on sessions, you might be able to retire earlier. These people also pay $4 for prepackaged veggie sticks, like a little box of to-go carrot and cucumber sticks.
Is that not a typo with a 0 too many? That is an absurd amount for a spinning session.
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I just thought of another one.
My office walls are quite bare, and I’ve been wanting to put a picture or painting on the wall. My coworker has some beautiful framed paintings on her wall. She recommended her art guy. Only $200 to frame a painting, plus another couple hundred for the painting itself.
I ended up buying a paint by numbers oil painting kit. I just need something on the wall, and it’s a fun project.
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Here's one overheard at the gym. Trainer who frequently mentions his Hellcat (and other cars he has owned) starts saying how a person is wasting money to pay cash for a car, because you'd be better to invest the $40k. So I say, you can't guarantee a return high enough to offset the car loan interest. He starts talking about investing in "spider" funds.
Him: Invest the 40k in a spider fund, then you'll have the car and 40k and the 10% per year investment return.
Me: You will have paid the 40k on the car loan, and only the amount of the investment return that is more than the loan interest.
Him: No, I put the 40k in the investment.
Me: You still had to pay the 40k in payments on the car.
Him: No, I put the 40k in the investment.
...
He didn't seem to understand that he was paying $40k + interest in the monthly car payments.
I had to google spider fund. He thinks he's got a 10% guarantee of an S&P 500 index.
I had to google Hellcat, too. Glad I didn't try to tell him about buying older used cars for real money savings.
700hp on a public road is beyond foolish. I hope his endocrine system is stable.
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I'm going to be devil's advocate
This was a while ago and could probably be cross posted to the thread about horrible situations where people won’t be able to retire.
This is really overheard and I don’t know the surrounding circumstances to any of these stories; I heard her name but couldn’t pick her out of a lineup. Here’s what I pieced together.
She is a widow and taking care of at least two middle- or high-school aged grandchildren, at least one of whom has a probation officer and generally doesn’t seem to listen to her directions which sounded perfectly reasonable to me (stuff like go home, not to your friend’s place).
- that does sound bad. It's tough to be a single parent, let alone a grandmother-aged parent.
There was the time where she got a new vehicle (don’t know if it was brand new or used but new to her) but couldn’t immediately pay the insurance when she updated the policy.
-Could be poor planning. But If she wasn't previously driving and you get a car there are a lot of new expenses (car, registration) and insurance on top of that can be a bit of sticker shock.
And then there was the time where she called the credit union to tell them she wouldn’t be able to pay her mortgage that month. Sounded like the person who took the call didn’t know what to do with it. A few minutes later somebody else from the credit union calls her back and tells her she was actually a payment ahead so skipping the payment would just put her back on schedule.
-I budget tight and so yeah if I accidentaly paid a month ahead that means I wouldn't have the money for mortgage when it did roll around. Maybe she budgets tight.
The saddest situation I overheard, though, was when she was arguing with one of the grandkids when they wanted her to buy or pay for something and she said the only money she had was the “five bucks or whatever” that was in her wallet.
-maybe that was the truth but it also sounds like something I would tell my kids if I didn't want to buy them something.
Didn’t sound like a good situation at all.
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I have a coworker who is the only stable income in her household (and she makes maybe $35k). Her husband has a vending/catering business that really should be classified as a hobby. They spend every cent they bring in on this "business" to buy better equipment, lease a storefront for almost a year before opening up to business two days a week, etc. Her husband is terrible at planning ahead so they don't always have the supplies on hand for a catering job so they are running to pick up plates and napkins the day before. Or she will use her lunch break at her 8-5 job to pick up supplies in our town rather than getting a discount for a large commercial order.
And yet, this woman is always buying new clothes, needs to see medical professionals for an ongoing health issue, and their vehicles are older and always in the shop. At some point there will be no more loans/credit cards available and they will be completely maxed out. If she lost her job and the medical benefits, they'd be unable to make the payments on pretty much everything within 30 days. I just cringe every time I hear her say they got a new(er) vehicle or bought new equipment. I'm not sure they can dig themselves out of the hole they are already in.
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Not exactly a co-worker, but I was talking to someone the other day and said something about ordering my groceries for pickup. She told me that she'd love to be able to do that, but you have to place the order, and let WM put a hold on your card, the day before you pick them up. That doesn't work for her because they need groceries on Thursday, but don't get paid until Thursday so she can't place the order a day early.
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Coworkers and cars :( a guy at my work is always driving beaters - not of the mustachian type but the ones that cost 500 and require 2000 in maintenance within three months. His cars are always breaking down and failing inspections. He showed up in a new car this week and I was initially happy for him: it's a modest car, 8 years old, fuel efficient and looks well maintained. The type of car a mustachian would buy and run into the ground.
He told me it was valued at €4k and just when I started wondering where he got that kind of money he proudly told me he finally qualified for a car loan. He put down €1200 and will pay €100/month for the next 5 years. By that time he will have paid twice what the car is worth in car payment and as it's 8 years old I'm sure there'll be maintenance costs as well. He's super proud of his shiny car and I wish him the best but it's a bad deal. It's extra sad that he still lives with his parents in a fairly remote place because he can't afford his own place, but as his parents live so far away from everything he spends a significant part of his income on driving.
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My Coworker likes cars. He drives a "mustachian" car at the moment, but is on lookout for a sporty car. I would give you 2 or 3 names if I could even bother to remember them... anyway today on business trip we saw his favorite - as he said it is totally overdesigned, looks like a race car.
He also does not want to put away money for retirement because he thinks he will be dead anyway. He does not go to doctors, so there is at least some basis in this claim.
My workplace is big on work life balance and physical/mental/emotional health. So we all have access to a free gym and free weight room and a free dance studio and free exercise classes. Anyway, last week an email went out regarding spin classes at the work place. Only USD$100/session! And you have to sign up for 15 sessions minimum. At least 10 people signed up immediately. Some of those people have talked in the past about not saving enough money and joking about having to work until they’re old. I’m like, if you stopped spending $100/day on sessions, you might be able to retire earlier. These people also pay $4 for prepackaged veggie sticks, like a little box of to-go carrot and cucumber sticks.
Is that not a typo with a 0 too many? That is an absurd amount for a spinning session.
I had to google that. A spinning lesson is where you sit on what we in Germany call "home trainer" (historic word!)? A stationary bike?
I got one of these used for 10€ and got a free weight lifting (extra cheap!!) out of getting it upstairs.
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@LennStar it's kind of like that, but super high energy and usually done in groups. It's nothing like how my grandma used to work out on her hometrainer. I've never done a spinning class, but I've watched them at the gym and it looks too intense for me.
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@LennStar it's kind of like that, but super high energy and usually done in groups. It's nothing like how my grandma used to work out on her hometrainer. I've never done a spinning class, but I've watched them at the gym and it looks too intense for me.
Yeah, that kind of spin class is like going out for a bike ride with a bunch of really intense people, plus loud music and someone yelling at you. Only you don't actually go anywhere, and you pay for the privilege.
I have gotten some benefit out of spin classes that are already offered through my gym, because I don't bike in winter and have to regain some strength every spring. But those are much less intense than the ones you'd pay $100/class for.
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What kind of spin class costs $100?? Is it taught by Arnold Schwarzenegger??
I spent a week with a friend recently and we went to her gym every day. I bought a guest pass for $30/week. It was a pretty nice gym. We went to at least one and sometimes two classes (yoga, pilates, cardio) every day for five days so I consider it an okay deal. They had spin classes too but the times didn't work for us.
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@LennStar it's kind of like that, but super high energy and usually done in groups. It's nothing like how my grandma used to work out on her hometrainer. I've never done a spinning class, but I've watched them at the gym and it looks too intense for me.
They're actually fun, although I wanted to collapse after the first one I tried. My friend and I used to take spin classes in grad school to blow off steam, as we got a really good deal through the university gym. I wish I could find one locally that didn't require me to pay more than my electric+natural gas bill per month.
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I had to google that. A spinning lesson is where you sit on what we in Germany call "home trainer" (historic word!)? A stationary bike?
It‘s a US thing. We‘ll probably get spinning within the next year. Search for “I feel pretty” (that’s a movie) and SoulCycle (a company offering spinnig and paying a lot for product placement in said movie). In Hamburg there are already offerings in the more expensive and hip part of the city, auch as Hicycle.
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Yeah, that kind of spin class is like going out for a bike ride with a bunch of really intense people, plus loud music and someone yelling at you. Only you don't actually go anywhere, and you pay for the privilege.
I have never understood those persons paying money for an army-like boot camp O.o
But I guess it is a good opportunity for old drill sergeants to do what they are used to in their second career.
As a severe introvert the combination of intense people, loud music and someone yelling together is something I would pay $100 to get away from ;)
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I had to google that. A spinning lesson is where you sit on what we in Germany call "home trainer" (historic word!)? A stationary bike?
It‘s a US thing. We‘ll probably get spinning within the next year. Search for “I feel pretty” (that’s a movie) and SoulCycle (a company offering spinnig and paying a lot for product placement in said movie). In Hamburg there are already offerings in the more expensive and hip part of the city, auch as Hicycle.
Spinning class has been a normal concept in Norway for many years. I went to such a class one winter when I was a member of a cycle club. In the summer, we cycled outside. We rented the spinning room during the winter, for an hour a week and one of the club was the instructor. I think we paid 8 euros per training, including showering at the senter. But that was many years ago.
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@LennStar it's kind of like that, but super high energy and usually done in groups. It's nothing like how my grandma used to work out on her hometrainer. I've never done a spinning class, but I've watched them at the gym and it looks too intense for me.
They're actually fun, although I wanted to collapse after the first one I tried. My friend and I used to take spin classes in grad school to blow off steam, as we got a really good deal through the university gym. I wish I could find one locally that didn't require me to pay more than my electric+natural gas bill per month.
Former spin instructor here. Classes were included in my gym's
membership, but surprising few members took advantage of it.
It was great 5-year gig for me as a side hustle. There's nothing
like getting paid to work out.
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Borrow a bicycle and come ride the hills around here with me. If it get too easy, we'll borrow a 8-9 year old child to ride on the back for weight. ;)
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TLDR of a long convo I had with a coworker about mattresses...this is not the way I'd want to spend the fruits of my miserable office job. I can't believe people actually live like this.
That reminds me of a CW whose wife is a spendthrift. She grew up poor in a trailer park, but now makes over $500k/yr.
CW said she still manages to spend so much that her annual bonus just zeroes out the credit cards, and she starts over.
One day he asked us if we thought $1200 was a lot of money for a comforter. After the usual ribbing, he said, yes, his wife had ordered a comforter from some high-end store for $1200. Pretty much the same thing that the rest of us might spend $50 on at Kohl's or Target.
She makes money, but I don't think she'll ever have money.
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TLDR of a long convo I had with a coworker about mattresses...this is not the way I'd want to spend the fruits of my miserable office job. I can't believe people actually live like this.
That reminds me of a CW whose wife is a spendthrift. She grew up poor in a trailer park, but now makes over $500k/yr.
CW said she still manages to spend so much that her annual bonus just zeroes out the credit cards, and she starts over.
One day he asked us if we thought $1200 was a lot of money for a comforter. After the usual ribbing, he said, yes, his wife had ordered a comforter from some high-end store for $1200. Pretty much the same thing that the rest of us might spend $50 on at Kohl's or Target.
She makes money, but I don't think she'll ever have money.
I hope you are wrong about her not ever having money. I can't imagine making $500,000/year and possibly having very little net worth. Yikes!
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TLDR of a long convo I had with a coworker about mattresses...this is not the way I'd want to spend the fruits of my miserable office job. I can't believe people actually live like this.
That reminds me of a CW whose wife is a spendthrift. She grew up poor in a trailer park, but now makes over $500k/yr.
CW said she still manages to spend so much that her annual bonus just zeroes out the credit cards, and she starts over.
One day he asked us if we thought $1200 was a lot of money for a comforter. After the usual ribbing, he said, yes, his wife had ordered a comforter from some high-end store for $1200. Pretty much the same thing that the rest of us might spend $50 on at Kohl's or Target.
She makes money, but I don't think she'll ever have money.
I hope you are wrong about her not ever having money. I can't imagine making $500,000/year and possibly having very little net worth. Yikes!
Maybe taxes are very different in NY, but in Canada $500K/year salary would net less than $250K/year....often people spend their gross income, not they net.
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TLDR of a long convo I had with a coworker about mattresses...this is not the way I'd want to spend the fruits of my miserable office job. I can't believe people actually live like this.
That reminds me of a CW whose wife is a spendthrift. She grew up poor in a trailer park, but now makes over $500k/yr.
CW said she still manages to spend so much that her annual bonus just zeroes out the credit cards, and she starts over.
One day he asked us if we thought $1200 was a lot of money for a comforter. After the usual ribbing, he said, yes, his wife had ordered a comforter from some high-end store for $1200. Pretty much the same thing that the rest of us might spend $50 on at Kohl's or Target.
She makes money, but I don't think she'll ever have money.
I hope you are wrong about her not ever having money. I can't imagine making $500,000/year and possibly having very little net worth. Yikes!
Maybe taxes are very different in NY, but in Canada $500K/year salary would net less than $250K/year....often people spend their gross income, not they net.
Laughs in non-socialist
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TLDR of a long convo I had with a coworker about mattresses...this is not the way I'd want to spend the fruits of my miserable office job. I can't believe people actually live like this.
That reminds me of a CW whose wife is a spendthrift. She grew up poor in a trailer park, but now makes over $500k/yr.
CW said she still manages to spend so much that her annual bonus just zeroes out the credit cards, and she starts over.
One day he asked us if we thought $1200 was a lot of money for a comforter. After the usual ribbing, he said, yes, his wife had ordered a comforter from some high-end store for $1200. Pretty much the same thing that the rest of us might spend $50 on at Kohl's or Target.
She makes money, but I don't think she'll ever have money.
I hope you are wrong about her not ever having money. I can't imagine making $500,000/year and possibly having very little net worth. Yikes!
Myself and CW have discussed finances, and he said he spends the last few months before her bonus arrives juggling credit cards, trying to not let her open any new accounts. He makes around $100k. They bought a $600k house that had stucco issues, so they spent over $70k just fixing the place a few months after buying it.
He said it's ridiculous that he's so stressed out over money when they make that much, but he can't get her to change.
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TLDR of a long convo I had with a coworker about mattresses...this is not the way I'd want to spend the fruits of my miserable office job. I can't believe people actually live like this.
That reminds me of a CW whose wife is a spendthrift. She grew up poor in a trailer park, but now makes over $500k/yr.
CW said she still manages to spend so much that her annual bonus just zeroes out the credit cards, and she starts over.
One day he asked us if we thought $1200 was a lot of money for a comforter. After the usual ribbing, he said, yes, his wife had ordered a comforter from some high-end store for $1200. Pretty much the same thing that the rest of us might spend $50 on at Kohl's or Target.
She makes money, but I don't think she'll ever have money.
I hope you are wrong about her not ever having money. I can't imagine making $500,000/year and possibly having very little net worth. Yikes!
Myself and CW have discussed finances, and he said he spends the last few months before her bonus arrives juggling credit cards, trying to not let her open any new accounts. He makes around $100k. They bought a $600k house that had stucco issues, so they spent over $70k just fixing the place a few months after buying it.
He said it's ridiculous that he's so stressed out over money when they make that much, but he can't get her to change.
When someone else's habit directly affects you in a negative way, and you cannot break them of the habit, the only remaining option is to break the means by which that habit affects you.
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TLDR of a long convo I had with a coworker about mattresses...this is not the way I'd want to spend the fruits of my miserable office job. I can't believe people actually live like this.
That reminds me of a CW whose wife is a spendthrift. She grew up poor in a trailer park, but now makes over $500k/yr.
CW said she still manages to spend so much that her annual bonus just zeroes out the credit cards, and she starts over.
One day he asked us if we thought $1200 was a lot of money for a comforter. After the usual ribbing, he said, yes, his wife had ordered a comforter from some high-end store for $1200. Pretty much the same thing that the rest of us might spend $50 on at Kohl's or Target.
She makes money, but I don't think she'll ever have money.
I hope you are wrong about her not ever having money. I can't imagine making $500,000/year and possibly having very little net worth. Yikes!
Myself and CW have discussed finances, and he said he spends the last few months before her bonus arrives juggling credit cards, trying to not let her open any new accounts. He makes around $100k. They bought a $600k house that had stucco issues, so they spent over $70k just fixing the place a few months after buying it.
He said it's ridiculous that he's so stressed out over money when they make that much, but he can't get her to change.
I'm always skeptical about couples where one person constantly complains about the other's spending habits. It's usually the case that the person doing the complaining isn't exactly frugal either, their spending just isn't as conspicuous.
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Today, after many months (too many, I honestly should have done this months ago) of discussions about performance issues, work issues, general issues (and sincere but insufficient attempts at fixing it), i fired someone. She (somehow) claimed not to see it coming (despite discussions that involve language like "I don't currently see that you have the ability to do this job, and you should look for alternatives elsewhere"), and cried because her finances just couldn't take it and she has no savings and how is she gonna support her daughter (... I try not to judge other people's finances, but: don't eat lunch out daily, those new clothes and tattoos are not cheap, and 400$ kid birthday parties are not great for a single mom on a budget. And also you're getting severance and are eligible for unemployment, and there's a huge demand in your field in this area right now, you'll find something, OMG).
3 hours later, her dad showed up, wanting an explanation for why his daughter is "completely emotionally destroyed" and "it'll take them months to put her back together".
Guys. She's in her 40s.
Wtf.
I'm seeing a link between the parenting and the behaviour, and I am still boggled. HER PARENT SHOWED UP TO DEMAND AN EXPLANATION.
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@Kitsune
Mind.Blown.
You win today. That is all.
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Holy crap.
I didn’t realize helicopter parenting started that long ago.
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Wow.
Just
Wow.
What are you going to say if the next job she applies to calls for a reference?
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What are you going to say if the next job she applies to calls for a reference?
(1) To describe a candidate who is woefully inept:
“I most enthusiastically recommend this candidate with no qualifications whatsoever.”
(2) To describe a candidate who is not particularly industrious:
“In my opinion you would be very fortunate to get this person to work for you.”
(3) To describe a candidate with lackluster credentials:
“All in all, I cannot say enough good things about this candidate or recommend him too highly.”
(4) To describe an ex-employee who had difficulty getting along with his co-workers:
“I am pleased to say that this candidate is a former colleague of mine.”
(5) To describe a candidate who is so unproductive that the job would be better left unfilled:
“I can assure you that no person would be better for the job.”
(6) To describe a job applicant who is worth no further consideration:
“I would urge you to waste no time in making this person an offer of employment.”
From the Lexicon of Inconspicuously Ambiguous Referrals: http://users.ohiohills.com/gordon/liar.html (http://users.ohiohills.com/gordon/liar.html)
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ROFL
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*** 3 hours later, her dad showed up, wanting an explanation for why his daughter is "completely emotionally destroyed" and "it'll take them months to put her back together". ***
I'd have suggested that her Dad take her out for a tattoo inking , maybe something like " Resilance ! " , or instead of the classic heart with a "mom" inside - a heart with a birthday cake inside and sitting on top of 4 $100 dollar bills.
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*** 3 hours later, her dad showed up, wanting an explanation for why his daughter is "completely emotionally destroyed" and "it'll take them months to put her back together". ***
I'd have suggested that her Dad take her out for a tattoo inking , maybe something like " Resilance ! " , or instead of the classic heart with a "mom" inside - a heart with a birthday cake inside and sitting on top of 4 $100 dollar bills.
burn!
Seriously I would never say something like that bc of possibility of violence.
Concerning thing, this person seemed to have learned nothing from being fired other than being a "victim", reinforced by Dad. For most people it is something that causes a reevaluation and development in character.
The one thing I do have sympathy for, is after my separation I still wanted to do those nice things we did when married (birthday party, trips). I can imagine the $400 party was an overcompensation. You can only do that so long though before having to downshift. And in retrospect realize alot of the things I was doing was doing was more for me (not wanting to feel like things had changed, social standing) and my kids didn't care as much/were fine either way. Most kids don't care about the difference between a $75 party and a $400 party so long as their friends are there.
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*** 3 hours later, her dad showed up, wanting an explanation for why his daughter is "completely emotionally destroyed" and "it'll take them months to put her back together". ***
I'd have suggested that her Dad take her out for a tattoo inking , maybe something like " Resilance ! " , or instead of the classic heart with a "mom" inside - a heart with a birthday cake inside and sitting on top of 4 $100 dollar bills.
burn!
Seriously I would never say something like that bc of possibility of violence.
Concerning thing, this person seemed to have learned nothing from being fired other than being a "victim", reinforced by Dad. For most people it is something that causes a reevaluation and development in character.
The one thing I do have sympathy for, is after my separation I still wanted to do those nice things we did when married (birthday party, trips). I can imagine the $400 party was an overcompensation. You can only do that so long though before having to downshift. And in retrospect realize alot of the things I was doing was doing was more for me (not wanting to feel like things had changed, social standing) and my kids didn't care as much/were fine either way. Most kids don't care about the difference between a $75 party and a $400 party so long as their friends are there.
Well, the kid in question is 3, so frankly, some balloons, a nice cake (if you want to make a little kid REALLY happy, a cake decorated with their favorite characters), and people who love them letting them run around and be super excited and play and be loved is what you need for an A+ successful party, in their eyes.
And god, I'd never say ANY of the commentary about her personal life and finances (because my business, it is not, not, NOT) but... it's hard to watch someone dig themselves into a hole and then just look around, be miserable, and keep digging.
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Yeah a 3 year old is not going to care one way or another. More likely to play with the box the toy came in than the toy itself!
I shouldn't feel bad but I do feel bad for her. If her own parents won't give her a heads up talk, probably no one else will : (
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Ugh, I also feel bad for her.
My dad says that some people 'just don't have the wiring', which is direct but also illustrative. In this case: I honestly don't think she has the capacity to understand and extrapolate information. I haven't seen a hint of it demonstrated in 11 months of work, or discussions of her personal life.
Which makes looking on just... painful.
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... Aaaaand now she's texting ex-colleagues, in an absolute PANIC, because her ONLY copy of the file that details her issues getting child support for her kid was (wait for it) on her work computer, worked on during work hours, not backed up, and now locked away from access by our IT department.
It has to be Friday; I freakin give up on this one.
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I just thought of another one.
My office walls are quite bare, and I’ve been wanting to put a picture or painting on the wall. My coworker has some beautiful framed paintings on her wall. She recommended her art guy. Only $200 to frame a painting, plus another couple hundred for the painting itself.
I ended up buying a paint by numbers oil painting kit. I just need something on the wall, and it’s a fun project.
Framed art is a fun thing. The prices are over the top for so many aspects of art. Framing, matting, etc. I once bought a $5 sheet of cardboard mat (matte?) that I needed trimmed to a certain dimension b/c I was using it to cover the top of an antique side table where I wanted to park my 3-D printer. Lady at Hobby Lobby tells me it will cost $20+ to do two straight cuts. 2 mins of work! She said that if she was cutting the cardboard then she had to charge the same rates as if she was framing a picture for me. $20+ to cut a $5 piece of cardboard twice. I told her it was ridiculous and went home where I cut the cardboard for free with a pair of heavy scissors we own.
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... Aaaaand now she's texting ex-colleagues, in an absolute PANIC, because her ONLY copy of the file that details her issues getting child support for her kid was (wait for it) on her work computer, worked on during work hours, not backed up, and now locked away from access by our IT department.
It has to be Friday; I freakin give up on this one.
WHY do people use their employer's computer for personal email? Open a free email account like GMail! Most email services have webmail pages.
I have a coworker who has thousands of personal emails mingled with their work emails and sometimes can't find important workplace info b/c of the volume of total messages.
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TLDR of a long convo I had with a coworker about mattresses...this is not the way I'd want to spend the fruits of my miserable office job. I can't believe people actually live like this.
That reminds me of a CW whose wife is a spendthrift. She grew up poor in a trailer park, but now makes over $500k/yr.
CW said she still manages to spend so much that her annual bonus just zeroes out the credit cards, and she starts over.
One day he asked us if we thought $1200 was a lot of money for a comforter. After the usual ribbing, he said, yes, his wife had ordered a comforter from some high-end store for $1200. Pretty much the same thing that the rest of us might spend $50 on at Kohl's or Target.
She makes money, but I don't think she'll ever have money.
I hope you are wrong about her not ever having money. I can't imagine making $500,000/year and possibly having very little net worth. Yikes!
Maybe taxes are very different in NY, but in Canada $500K/year salary would net less than $250K/year....often people spend their gross income, not they net.
Sorry, I realize the conversation has moved on from this, but this was bugging me. In no province or territory would you net less than $250K/year. The least you'd get is in Nova Scotia or Quebec, where you'd net $262K, not including any deductions, RRSP, tax credits, etc. In Ontario, your home, you'd net $270K. A person would have to gross $800K before hitting an effective tax rate of 50% in Nova Scotia, and over $1M before hitting 50% in Ontario. Check out https://www.taxtips.ca/calculators/basic/basic-tax-calculator.htm if you're curious for more.
Pedant rant over. :)
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TLDR of a long convo I had with a coworker about mattresses...this is not the way I'd want to spend the fruits of my miserable office job. I can't believe people actually live like this.
That reminds me of a CW whose wife is a spendthrift. She grew up poor in a trailer park, but now makes over $500k/yr.
CW said she still manages to spend so much that her annual bonus just zeroes out the credit cards, and she starts over.
One day he asked us if we thought $1200 was a lot of money for a comforter. After the usual ribbing, he said, yes, his wife had ordered a comforter from some high-end store for $1200. Pretty much the same thing that the rest of us might spend $50 on at Kohl's or Target.
She makes money, but I don't think she'll ever have money.
I hope you are wrong about her not ever having money. I can't imagine making $500,000/year and possibly having very little net worth. Yikes!
Maybe taxes are very different in NY, but in Canada $500K/year salary would net less than $250K/year....often people spend their gross income, not they net.
Sorry, I realize the conversation has moved on from this, but this was bugging me. In no province or territory would you net less than $250K/year. The least you'd get is in Nova Scotia or Quebec, where you'd net $262K, not including any deductions, RRSP, tax credits, etc. In Ontario, your home, you'd net $270K. A person would have to gross $800K before hitting an effective tax rate of 50% in Nova Scotia, and over $1M before hitting 50% in Ontario. Check out https://www.taxtips.ca/calculators/basic/basic-tax-calculator.htm if you're curious for more.
Pedant rant over. :)
To be more pedantic, tax is (I guess) not the only thing you pay (if you aren't self employed).
Getting above 50% is not even that hard in Germany for example, but those mandatory payments include health and pension and unemployment (which you would otherwise had to pay after tax). That is capped though so there are areas where the effective all-% rate actually goes down.
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Today, after many months (too many, I honestly should have done this months ago) of discussions about performance issues, work issues, general issues (and sincere but insufficient attempts at fixing it), i fired someone. She (somehow) claimed not to see it coming (despite discussions that involve language like "I don't currently see that you have the ability to do this job, and you should look for alternatives elsewhere"), and cried because her finances just couldn't take it and she has no savings and how is she gonna support her daughter (... I try not to judge other people's finances, but: don't eat lunch out daily, those new clothes and tattoos are not cheap, and 400$ kid birthday parties are not great for a single mom on a budget. And also you're getting severance and are eligible for unemployment, and there's a huge demand in your field in this area right now, you'll find something, OMG).
3 hours later, her dad showed up, wanting an explanation for why his daughter is "completely emotionally destroyed" and "it'll take them months to put her back together".
Guys. She's in her 40s.
Wtf.
I'm seeing a link between the parenting and the behaviour, and I am still boggled. HER PARENT SHOWED UP TO DEMAND AN EXPLANATION.
oh Lordy
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... Aaaaand now she's texting ex-colleagues, in an absolute PANIC, because her ONLY copy of the file that details her issues getting child support for her kid was (wait for it) on her work computer, worked on during work hours, not backed up, and now locked away from access by our IT department.
It has to be Friday; I freakin give up on this one.
WHY do people use their employer's computer for personal email? Open a free email account like GMail! Most email services have webmail pages.
I have a coworker who has thousands of personal emails mingled with their work emails and sometimes can't find important workplace info b/c of the volume of total messages.
Work in IT at my job. Had a guy who went into an absolute panic after his computer blew up....his wedding pictures were on his work machine.
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... Aaaaand now she's texting ex-colleagues, in an absolute PANIC, because her ONLY copy of the file that details her issues getting child support for her kid was (wait for it) on her work computer, worked on during work hours, not backed up, and now locked away from access by our IT department.
It has to be Friday; I freakin give up on this one.
WHY do people use their employer's computer for personal email? Open a free email account like GMail! Most email services have webmail pages.
I have a coworker who has thousands of personal emails mingled with their work emails and sometimes can't find important workplace info b/c of the volume of total messages.
Work in IT at my job. Had a guy who went into an absolute panic after his computer blew up....his wedding pictures were on his work machine.
Yikes, that's a tough one. I mean, it's his bad since there are a plethora of storage options for important things, like google drive, or one drive, or what have you. Hopefully he was able to reach out to the photographer. I think they are pretty diligent about backing things up for that reason.
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Work in IT at my job. Had a guy who went into an absolute panic after his computer blew up....his wedding pictures were on his work machine.
Only logical recourse is divorce.
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Work in IT at my job. Had a guy who went into an absolute panic after his computer blew up....his wedding pictures were on his work machine.
Only logical recourse is divorce.
Why? If there are no pics, it never happened :)
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... Aaaaand now she's texting ex-colleagues, in an absolute PANIC, because her ONLY copy of the file that details her issues getting child support for her kid was (wait for it) on her work computer, worked on during work hours, not backed up, and now locked away from access by our IT department.
It has to be Friday; I freakin give up on this one.
WHY do people use their employer's computer for personal email? Open a free email account like GMail! Most email services have webmail pages.
I have a coworker who has thousands of personal emails mingled with their work emails and sometimes can't find important workplace info b/c of the volume of total messages.
Work in IT at my job. Had a guy who went into an absolute panic after his computer blew up....his wedding pictures were on his work machine.
Yikes, that's a tough one. I mean, it's his bad since there are a plethora of storage options for important things, like google drive, or one drive, or what have you. Hopefully he was able to reach out to the photographer. I think they are pretty diligent about backing things up for that reason.
I keep most important stuff on Google Drive, but my financial spreadsheets are all on a thumb drive, since Google Sheets doesn't do the charts the same way Excel does, and I don't want to update the charts in both places. I would be so very upset if that thumb drive broke.
Literally, as I was typing that, my son reached for the thumb drive that's currently sticking out of my laptop...
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at mondays they roll the dice to decide on which day they get kidnapped.
Sunday is family day, so either you don't get kidnapped (kidnappers need a day off too) or you only get kidnapped with the whole family.
Yes I do believe this is the case bc so random through the month.
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WHY do people use their employer's computer for personal email? Open a free email account like GMail! Most email services have webmail pages.
I have a coworker who has thousands of personal emails mingled with their work emails and sometimes can't find important workplace info b/c of the volume of total messages.
When I worked for a government contractor we were very cut off from the outside world on work machines. No POP email, no Google drive, etc. The only option was to either look up everything on your phone or copy yourself on work email for everything personal you wanted to do at work. There was some personal stuff I collected over the years but in the end it was mostly lower-priority and took me no more than 30min total to sort through and send home when the end came.
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To be more pedantic, tax is (I guess) not the only thing you pay (if you aren't self employed).
Getting above 50% is not even that hard in Germany for example, but those mandatory payments include health and pension and unemployment (which you would otherwise had to pay after tax). That is capped though so there are areas where the effective all-% rate actually goes down.
That tax rate includes health insurance, right? Not hard for just employee-side payments to hit 10% of gross income in the USA. Not at the $500k income level, of course ;)
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If you're taking home $250,000 a year in income, quit your bitching. You have it made. Your take home pay puts you in the top 0.04% of income earners on the entire planet -- and that rating is comparing your take-home with their gross pay.
Be glad that you're contributing to the success of the society that enabled you to become such a success.
PS -- it's when high income earners stop contributing to the success of the entire society that the rest of society brings out the guillotines and chops off their heads. So if altruism won't motivate you, perhaps survival will.
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I keep most important stuff on Google Drive, but my financial spreadsheets are all on a thumb drive, since Google Sheets doesn't do the charts the same way Excel does, and I don't want to update the charts in both places. I would be so very upset if that thumb drive broke.
Literally, as I was typing that, my son reached for the thumb drive that's currently sticking out of my laptop...
@DadJokes: You know you can copy your Excel files to Google Drive? Just create a MyExcelFiles folder and copy them there whenever the spreadsheets are edited.
Even better, get a free DropBox (https://www.dropbox.com) account and have everything significant stored there, so you don't have to remember to copy to Google Drive after edits.
Please tell us that you've done this (or something similar) in your next post!
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I keep most important stuff on Google Drive, but my financial spreadsheets are all on a thumb drive, since Google Sheets doesn't do the charts the same way Excel does, and I don't want to update the charts in both places. I would be so very upset if that thumb drive broke.
Literally, as I was typing that, my son reached for the thumb drive that's currently sticking out of my laptop...
@DadJokes: You know you can copy your Excel files to Google Drive? Just create a MyExcelFiles folder and copy them there whenever the spreadsheets are edited.
Even better, get a free DropBox (https://www.dropbox.com) account and have everything significant stored there, so you don't have to remember to copy to Google Drive after edits.
Please tell us that you've done this (or something similar) in your next post!
Or install the Backup and Sync (https://www.google.com/drive/download/backup-and-sync/) tool, which behaves like Dropbox in that it synchronizes your files with Google Drive automatically.
DO NOT use a thumb drive as the primary storage for files you care about. Some of these drives still have old-school non-journalled file systems, which means if your son touches the drive at the wrong moment, you could lose all your data. Not just the recent updates, but everything.
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Overheard at lunch:
"We used to live in [remote suburb], but we hated the awful hour-long commute. Then we moved to [closer suburb] where the commute was only thirty minutes, but that was still too long and we couldn't stand it. So we moved to a small apartment right in the middle of downtown, where the commute was a five minute walk to the office in the morning. Now we have a kid, so our commute is an hour and a half each way from [edge of the known universe]."
As a parent raising a child in a small but very central condo, I shudder to think how much hassle it would be to live out in the sticks. I mean we'd have to drive literally everywhere! As opposed to having every imaginable service within 15 minutes on foot/bike/bus.
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Overheard at lunch:
"We used to live in [remote suburb], but we hated the awful hour-long commute. Then we moved to [closer suburb] where the commute was only thirty minutes, but that was still too long and we couldn't stand it. So we moved to a small apartment right in the middle of downtown, where the commute was a five minute walk to the office in the morning. Now we have a kid, so our commute is an hour and a half each way from [edge of the known universe]."
As a parent raising a child in a small but very central condo, I shudder to think how much hassle it would be to live out in the sticks. I mean we'd have to drive literally everywhere! As opposed to having every imaginable service within 15 minutes on foot/bike/bus.
CONFIRMED. As a parent who lives in the sticks (super-rural, but near family, lakes, orchards, farms, etc - there are advantages, but let's just say it was a Major Decision that was very important to my spouse), I can confirm that commuting with kids is the freakin pits, and the coordination necessary for rural living is the pits as well (no, i don't wanna drive a half hour to the nearest grocery store OR ago with 2 kids, so time Friday pickups carefully enough to do a week's groceries in 20 Minutes, and don't be late...). To do this for suburb living without family proximity... no. Ugh, WHY.
In our case, the country living and family situation makes it bearable for me, and how important it was to my spouse was the swinging vote. But omfg, people, never ever do this if it's not absolutely important for one of you. It is a LOT of work and money, there's gotta be a trade-off.
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I keep most important stuff on Google Drive, but my financial spreadsheets are all on a thumb drive, since Google Sheets doesn't do the charts the same way Excel does, and I don't want to update the charts in both places. I would be so very upset if that thumb drive broke.
Literally, as I was typing that, my son reached for the thumb drive that's currently sticking out of my laptop...
@DadJokes: You know you can copy your Excel files to Google Drive? Just create a MyExcelFiles folder and copy them there whenever the spreadsheets are edited.
Even better, get a free DropBox (https://www.dropbox.com) account and have everything significant stored there, so you don't have to remember to copy to Google Drive after edits.
Please tell us that you've done this (or something similar) in your next post!
I decided just to bite the bullet and use the spreadsheet on Google Sheets instead of Excel. It requires more work to keep my charts updated, but I guess that's the price you pay.
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Choose a smaller town. Ten minutes out of town and you're in the boonies.
A 90 minute commute would take some folks into the next state... I can't imagine doing that daily - especially morning and night!
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Choose a smaller town. Ten minutes out of town and you're in the boonies.
A 90 minute commute would take some folks into the next state... I can't imagine doing that daily - especially morning and night!
I worked with a guy for awhile that had a 90 or so minute commute. Not only did he cross state lines, he crossed the time line. He said it was okay in the morning because we're an hour behind his house (and he was on a vanpool that let him sleep on the way to work most days), but that the afternoons were a killer because he wasn't getting home until nearly 7:00 his time.
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Choose a smaller town. Ten minutes out of town and you're in the boonies.
A 90 minute commute would take some folks into the next state... I can't imagine doing that daily - especially morning and night!
I worked with a guy for awhile that had a 90 or so minute commute. Not only did he cross state lines, he crossed the time line. He said it was okay in the morning because we're an hour behind his house (and he was on a vanpool that let him sleep on the way to work most days), but that the afternoons were a killer because he wasn't getting home until nearly 7:00 his time.
90 minutes is 3 hours a day, omg. I wonder if people who do that have compared their hourly wages for 8hr days close to home vs 11hr days 90 minutes from home...
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Choose a smaller town. Ten minutes out of town and you're in the boonies.
A 90 minute commute would take some folks into the next state... I can't imagine doing that daily - especially morning and night!
I worked with a guy for awhile that had a 90 or so minute commute. Not only did he cross state lines, he crossed the time line. He said it was okay in the morning because we're an hour behind his house (and he was on a vanpool that let him sleep on the way to work most days), but that the afternoons were a killer because he wasn't getting home until nearly 7:00 his time.
90 minutes is 3 hours a day, omg. I wonder if people who do that have compared their hourly wages for 8hr days close to home vs 11hr days 90 minutes from home...
In this case, he was looking to get closer to "home" and was on the priority placement list. He's since taken a job that's even closer to where he lives and lets him telework 3 days a week. But there are still quite a few people that commute that far every day. The vanpool helps, especially since work pays for it, but ouch.
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Choose a smaller town. Ten minutes out of town and you're in the boonies.
A 90 minute commute would take some folks into the next state... I can't imagine doing that daily - especially morning and night!
I worked with a guy for awhile that had a 90 or so minute commute. Not only did he cross state lines, he crossed the time line. He said it was okay in the morning because we're an hour behind his house (and he was on a vanpool that let him sleep on the way to work most days), but that the afternoons were a killer because he wasn't getting home until nearly 7:00 his time.
90 minutes is 3 hours a day, omg. I wonder if people who do that have compared their hourly wages for 8hr days close to home vs 11hr days 90 minutes from home...
In this case, he was looking to get closer to "home" and was on the priority placement list. He's since taken a job that's even closer to where he lives and lets him telework 3 days a week. But there are still quite a few people that commute that far every day. The vanpool helps, especially since work pays for it, but ouch.
I have friends that commute 90 minutes each way. I have no idea how they bear it. My commute is an hour each way, but that's on a train, where I can do all the same things I would do at home (sleep, read, mindlessly play on my phone).
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Choose a smaller town. Ten minutes out of town and you're in the boonies.
A 90 minute commute would take some folks into the next state... I can't imagine doing that daily - especially morning and night!
I worked with a guy for awhile that had a 90 or so minute commute. Not only did he cross state lines, he crossed the time line. He said it was okay in the morning because we're an hour behind his house (and he was on a vanpool that let him sleep on the way to work most days), but that the afternoons were a killer because he wasn't getting home until nearly 7:00 his time.
90 minutes is 3 hours a day, omg. I wonder if people who do that have compared their hourly wages for 8hr days close to home vs 11hr days 90 minutes from home...
In this case, he was looking to get closer to "home" and was on the priority placement list. He's since taken a job that's even closer to where he lives and lets him telework 3 days a week. But there are still quite a few people that commute that far every day. The vanpool helps, especially since work pays for it, but ouch.
I have friends that commute 90 minutes each way. I have no idea how they bear it. My commute is an hour each way, but that's on a train, where I can do all the same things I would do at home (sleep, read, mindlessly play on my phone).
Yeah, I have a similar commute, and it is ONLY bearable because we all get in one car and then my husband and I get the kids to daycare/school and then get to talk together (while not absolutely exhausted) before picking up the kids again. It's a nice non-exhausted adults-only discussion time.
... that said, even then, it's only bearable because the location we're in is where we want to be long-term, with family around (essentially: we leave for work/school and no other reason), and it REALLY matters to my partner. Relationship compromise, let's say. I'm still not pleased about needing to commute at all, but it's the price to pay for other advantages.
Commuting sucks enough that I really think it needs to be evaluated. Sometimes it's the right choice, but maaaaaan, you gotta be convinced.
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Choose a smaller town. Ten minutes out of town and you're in the boonies.
A 90 minute commute would take some folks into the next state... I can't imagine doing that daily - especially morning and night!
I worked with a guy for awhile that had a 90 or so minute commute. Not only did he cross state lines, he crossed the time line. He said it was okay in the morning because we're an hour behind his house (and he was on a vanpool that let him sleep on the way to work most days), but that the afternoons were a killer because he wasn't getting home until nearly 7:00 his time.
90 minutes is 3 hours a day, omg. I wonder if people who do that have compared their hourly wages for 8hr days close to home vs 11hr days 90 minutes from home...
Yes, yes I have. Worth it. I'm in firehouse territory. Plus I take the train and it's only 3 days a week in the office so, could be worse.
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Choose a smaller town. Ten minutes out of town and you're in the boonies.
A 90 minute commute would take some folks into the next state... I can't imagine doing that daily - especially morning and night!
I worked with a guy for awhile that had a 90 or so minute commute. Not only did he cross state lines, he crossed the time line. He said it was okay in the morning because we're an hour behind his house (and he was on a vanpool that let him sleep on the way to work most days), but that the afternoons were a killer because he wasn't getting home until nearly 7:00 his time.
90 minutes is 3 hours a day, omg. I wonder if people who do that have compared their hourly wages for 8hr days close to home vs 11hr days 90 minutes from home...
In this case, he was looking to get closer to "home" and was on the priority placement list. He's since taken a job that's even closer to where he lives and lets him telework 3 days a week. But there are still quite a few people that commute that far every day. The vanpool helps, especially since work pays for it, but ouch.
I have friends that commute 90 minutes each way. I have no idea how they bear it. My commute is an hour each way, but that's on a train, where I can do all the same things I would do at home (sleep, read, mindlessly play on my phone).
Yeah, I have a similar commute, and it is ONLY bearable because we all get in one car and then my husband and I get the kids to daycare/school and then get to talk together (while not absolutely exhausted) before picking up the kids again. It's a nice non-exhausted adults-only discussion time.
... that said, even then, it's only bearable because the location we're in is where we want to be long-term, with family around (essentially: we leave for work/school and no other reason), and it REALLY matters to my partner. Relationship compromise, let's say. I'm still not pleased about needing to commute at all, but it's the price to pay for other advantages.
Commuting sucks enough that I really think it needs to be evaluated. Sometimes it's the right choice, but maaaaaan, you gotta be convinced.
Commuting with your spouse is certainly a step-function improvement over solo. I had the pleasure for a short while early on in our careers and it was great. That uninterrupted time where no one could be on a phone and we had to actually talk to each other was golden. :)
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Commuting with your spouse is certainly a step-function improvement over solo. I had the pleasure for a short while early on in our careers and it was great. That uninterrupted time where no one could be on a phone and we had to actually talk to each other was golden. :)
I guess I'm lucky and I actually enjoy my wife's company and conversation. Or maybe I'm just sensible and didn't marry the ones I didn't enjoy talking to... :)
Had one couple where I last worked that worked the same hours at the same location for the same employer. Each drove separately in their own gas-guzzling truck.
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Commuting with your spouse is certainly a step-function improvement over solo. I had the pleasure for a short while early on in our careers and it was great. That uninterrupted time where no one could be on a phone and we had to actually talk to each other was golden. :)
I guess I'm lucky and I actually enjoy my wife's company and conversation. Or maybe I'm just sensible and didn't marry the ones I didn't enjoy talking too... :)
Had one couple where I last worked that worked the same hours at the same location for the same employer. Each drove separately in their own gas-guzzling truck.
Some of my colleagues do that and I just... do not understand.
I married this dude because I like being around him. In bed, outside of bed, he's my person, y'know? So I WANT to chat with him, and listen to audiobooks with him, and hash things out to make sure that they get fixed (and honestly, we're WAY better at hashing things out while well-rested at 8am than we ware when exhausted at 10pm - pro tip, only bring up relationship issues when you've got the energy to find a solution!), and talk about what we're in the mood to eat for dinner, and generally... be together.
If I didn't want that, then why be married? What am I missing?
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Commuting with your spouse is certainly a step-function improvement over solo. I had the pleasure for a short while early on in our careers and it was great. That uninterrupted time where no one could be on a phone and we had to actually talk to each other was golden. :)
I guess I'm lucky and I actually enjoy my wife's company and conversation. Or maybe I'm just sensible and didn't marry the ones I didn't enjoy talking to... :)
Had one couple where I last worked that worked the same hours at the same location for the same employer. Each drove separately in their own gas-guzzling truck.
How sad. I agree that it doesn’t make sense to bother marrying someone you don’t even like talking to.
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At a recent company-sponsored lunch with coworkers, the topic of our pay frequency popped up. We are salaried and get paid once per month, on the 1st of the month. We are essentially paid in advance for the entire upcoming month. Many of my coworkers do not like this setup and wish we were paid more frequently, which is absolutely mind boggling to me. Their reasoning? It would be easier to stretch the money out if they received it in chunks throughout the month. We are literally receiving an entire month's salary up front before doing a minute of work - just learn to budget better!
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At a recent company-sponsored lunch with coworkers, the topic of our pay frequency popped up. We are salaried and get paid once per month, on the 1st of the month. We are essentially paid in advance for the entire upcoming month. Many of my coworkers do not like this setup and wish we were paid more frequently, which is absolutely mind boggling to me. Their reasoning? It would be easier to stretch the money out if they received it in chunks throughout the month. We are literally receiving an entire month's salary up front before doing a minute of work - just learn to budget better!
Are you positive about that?
Because the usual way to do it is to pay for the prior month's work, not the next month's work.
If you quit on the 5th of the month and they owe you money, you're being paid for last month. If you owe them money, you're being paid for next month.
Frankly, only a moron of an employer would volunteer to pay people before they did the work.
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That is correct. Try to remember way back when, starting the job, having to wait for that first paycheck.
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That is correct. Try to remember way back when, starting the job, having to wait for that first paycheck.
If unsure the paycheck will tell you which dates it is covering. I agree it’s far more common to be paid 1-2 weeks AFTER the pay period ends (eg you get paid for weeks 1-2 on Friday of week 3) but I’m sure there are rare employees out there that will front the cash
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At a recent company-sponsored lunch with coworkers, the topic of our pay frequency popped up. We are salaried and get paid once per month, on the 1st of the month. We are essentially paid in advance for the entire upcoming month. Many of my coworkers do not like this setup and wish we were paid more frequently, which is absolutely mind boggling to me. Their reasoning? It would be easier to stretch the money out if they received it in chunks throughout the month. We are literally receiving an entire month's salary up front before doing a minute of work - just learn to budget better!
Are you positive about that?
Because the usual way to do it is to pay for the prior month's work, not the next month's work.
If you quit on the 5th of the month and they owe you money, you're being paid for last month. If you owe them money, you're being paid for next month.
Frankly, only a moron of an employer would volunteer to pay people before they did the work.
100% positive. I hadn't heard of anything like it before. Making things even odder is that throughout the recruitment process the payroll period mentioned was once a month on the 15th, it was even the stated date in the terms of my offer letter. But when I started my boss let me know that was inaccurate and my pay date was actually the 1st.
I've only been with the company for a year - I started last August on the last Monday of the month. When I was paid the first week of September, I unexpectedly received two checks. One for a week's pay in August and the other for the entire month of September. I fully assumed to get August's pay in September and September's pay in October, so I was pleasantly surprised to receive the second check. So surprised that I actually I asked about it to make sure it was correct and was told that it was the norm. It is just how the company's pay periods are structured.
Those coworkers opposed did acknowledge the fact they were getting paid up front, but in spite of this still wanted more frequent paychecks for the aforementioned rationale.
That is correct. Try to remember way back when, starting the job, having to wait for that first paycheck.
That was fully my assumption when I first started, but as mentioned in my reply to SwordGuy turned out to not be the case.
That is correct. Try to remember way back when, starting the job, having to wait for that first paycheck.
If unsure the paycheck will tell you which dates it is covering. I agree it’s far more common to be paid 1-2 weeks AFTER the pay period ends (eg you get paid for weeks 1-2 on Friday of week 3) but I’m sure there are rare employees out there that will front the cash
Yup. Logged on to our payroll provider check my most recent paystub:
Period Beginning: 9/01/2019
Period Ending: 09/30/2019
Pay Date: 09/03/2019*
*Was actually posted to my accounts on 8/31.
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At a recent company-sponsored lunch with coworkers, the topic of our pay frequency popped up. We are salaried and get paid once per month, on the 1st of the month. We are essentially paid in advance for the entire upcoming month. Many of my coworkers do not like this setup and wish we were paid more frequently, which is absolutely mind boggling to me. Their reasoning? It would be easier to stretch the money out if they received it in chunks throughout the month. We are literally receiving an entire month's salary up front before doing a minute of work - just learn to budget better!
Are you positive about that?
Because the usual way to do it is to pay for the prior month's work, not the next month's work.
If you quit on the 5th of the month and they owe you money, you're being paid for last month. If you owe them money, you're being paid for next month.
Frankly, only a moron of an employer would volunteer to pay people before they did the work.
100% positive. I hadn't heard of anything like it before. Making things even odder is that throughout the recruitment process the payroll period mentioned was once a month on the 15th, it was even the stated date in the terms of my offer letter. But when I started my boss let me know that was inaccurate and my pay date was actually the 1st.
I've only been with the company for a year - I started last August on the last Monday of the month. When I was paid the first week of September, I unexpectedly received two checks. One for a week's pay in August and the other for the entire month of September. I fully assumed to get August's pay in September and September's pay in October, so I was pleasantly surprised to receive the second check. So surprised that I actually I asked about it to make sure it was correct and was told that it was the norm. It is just how the company's pay periods are structured.
Those coworkers opposed did acknowledge the fact they were getting paid up front, but in spite of this still wanted more frequent paychecks for the aforementioned rationale.
That is correct. Try to remember way back when, starting the job, having to wait for that first paycheck.
That was fully my assumption when I first started, but as mentioned in my reply to SwordGuy turned out to not be the case.
That is correct. Try to remember way back when, starting the job, having to wait for that first paycheck.
If unsure the paycheck will tell you which dates it is covering. I agree it’s far more common to be paid 1-2 weeks AFTER the pay period ends (eg you get paid for weeks 1-2 on Friday of week 3) but I’m sure there are rare employees out there that will front the cash
Yup. Logged on to our payroll provider check my most recent paystub:
Period Beginning: 9/01/2019
Period Ending: 09/30/2019
Pay Date: 09/03/2019*
*Was actually posted to my accounts on 8/31.
Wow! Of course, if they are that bad at their finances, they probably can't afford to leave because they would have to pay the boss man back and wait an extra month until the next job paid them.
Maybe boss man is brilliant after all. :)
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Not a worst case, but heard today from a male coworker.
"my wife makes a list of requirement for the new car. I find a car that fits the requirements. My wife has the final word to say yes or no. I found a Subaru, but my wife doesn't want it, because os looks or so. I would rather have continued to drive our old car. "
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Choose a smaller town. Ten minutes out of town and you're in the boonies.
A 90 minute commute would take some folks into the next state... I can't imagine doing that daily - especially morning and night!
I worked with a guy for awhile that had a 90 or so minute commute. Not only did he cross state lines, he crossed the time line. He said it was okay in the morning because we're an hour behind his house (and he was on a vanpool that let him sleep on the way to work most days), but that the afternoons were a killer because he wasn't getting home until nearly 7:00 his time.
90 minutes is 3 hours a day, omg. I wonder if people who do that have compared their hourly wages for 8hr days close to home vs 11hr days 90 minutes from home...
90 minute commutes really, really suck. I know. My (former) work was only a 35 min drive on sundays, but 90 min because of traffic. It used to be nly 50 minutes (a tie for transit or car travel in time) when I started. We chose it because family was within 10 minutes and it was exceptionally hard to find condos with 4 bedrooms (for reasons) closer.
It is one of the reasons that I no longer work (there). I would rather take a 85% pay cut and work PT/ FIRE from home.
Our place was not way out in the sticks. Google says that the time to cycle the 20 miles is 1hr 50min. It is very possible to make good home choices for your family and then get suckered with a bad commute within 10 years.
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Choose a smaller town. Ten minutes out of town and you're in the boonies.
A 90 minute commute would take some folks into the next state... I can't imagine doing that daily - especially morning and night!
I worked with a guy for awhile that had a 90 or so minute commute. Not only did he cross state lines, he crossed the time line. He said it was okay in the morning because we're an hour behind his house (and he was on a vanpool that let him sleep on the way to work most days), but that the afternoons were a killer because he wasn't getting home until nearly 7:00 his time.
90 minutes is 3 hours a day, omg. I wonder if people who do that have compared their hourly wages for 8hr days close to home vs 11hr days 90 minutes from home...
In this case, he was looking to get closer to "home" and was on the priority placement list. He's since taken a job that's even closer to where he lives and lets him telework 3 days a week. But there are still quite a few people that commute that far every day. The vanpool helps, especially since work pays for it, but ouch.
I talked to a fellow that drove 1000 miles per week to work and back for the past several months... He is young and enthusiastic but even he said there was a limit to how long he'd do that kind of commute.
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Commuting with your spouse is certainly a step-function improvement over solo. I had the pleasure for a short while early on in our careers and it was great. That uninterrupted time where no one could be on a phone and we had to actually talk to each other was golden. :)
I guess I'm lucky and I actually enjoy my wife's company and conversation. Or maybe I'm just sensible and didn't marry the ones I didn't enjoy talking too... :)
Had one couple where I last worked that worked the same hours at the same location for the same employer. Each drove separately in their own gas-guzzling truck.
Some of my colleagues do that and I just... do not understand.
I married this dude because I like being around him. In bed, outside of bed, he's my person, y'know? So I WANT to chat with him, and listen to audiobooks with him, and hash things out to make sure that they get fixed (and honestly, we're WAY better at hashing things out while well-rested at 8am than we ware when exhausted at 10pm - pro tip, only bring up relationship issues when you've got the energy to find a solution!), and talk about what we're in the mood to eat for dinner, and generally... be together.
If I didn't want that, then why be married? What am I missing?
Ah yes, it is so hard. We never talk anymore. Two kids, two jobs. We had kids late so they are a metric ton of work. And then I'm a lark and he's a night owl. When we get a chance, we sneak out to have a lunch date on the weekends or SIT NEXT TO EACH OTHER at the neighborhood potluck. Glorious.
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That sounds very familiar. We added a third to the mess so we are very much two relay runners handing a baton off to the other at the moment. One of the big reasons I look forward to FI so much.
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Commuting with your spouse is certainly a step-function improvement over solo. I had the pleasure for a short while early on in our careers and it was great. That uninterrupted time where no one could be on a phone and we had to actually talk to each other was golden. :)
I guess I'm lucky and I actually enjoy my wife's company and conversation. Or maybe I'm just sensible and didn't marry the ones I didn't enjoy talking too... :)
Had one couple where I last worked that worked the same hours at the same location for the same employer. Each drove separately in their own gas-guzzling truck.
Some of my colleagues do that and I just... do not understand.
I married this dude because I like being around him. In bed, outside of bed, he's my person, y'know? So I WANT to chat with him, and listen to audiobooks with him, and hash things out to make sure that they get fixed (and honestly, we're WAY better at hashing things out while well-rested at 8am than we ware when exhausted at 10pm - pro tip, only bring up relationship issues when you've got the energy to find a solution!), and talk about what we're in the mood to eat for dinner, and generally... be together.
If I didn't want that, then why be married? What am I missing?
Ah yes, it is so hard. We never talk anymore. Two kids, two jobs. We had kids late so they are a metric ton of work. And then I'm a lark and he's a night owl. When we get a chance, we sneak out to have a lunch date on the weekends or SIT NEXT TO EACH OTHER at the neighborhood potluck. Glorious.
Yeah, we're also at the 2 (soon 3) kids, 2 jobs juggling act. If we didn't commute together, we might talk to each other (without the kids) for 10 minutes a day. I'll take my time where I find it, and if it's while commuting, then ok!
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That sounds very familiar. We added a third to the mess so we are very much two relay runners handing a baton off to the other at the moment. One of the big reasons I look forward to FI so much.
I thought you meant a third partner! (Not that there's anything wrong with that. . .)
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That sounds very familiar. We added a third to the mess so we are very much two relay runners handing a baton off to the other at the moment. One of the big reasons I look forward to FI so much.
I thought you meant a third partner! (Not that there's anything wrong with that. . .)
Now which would complicate life further: a third kid or a third partner? Hmmm
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That sounds very familiar. We added a third to the mess so we are very much two relay runners handing a baton off to the other at the moment. One of the big reasons I look forward to FI so much.
I thought you meant a third partner! (Not that there's anything wrong with that. . .)
Now which would complicate life further: a third kid or a third partner? Hmmm
I have friends who are 3 people raising a kid together, and frankly, that looks like a GREAT adult/kid ratio.
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Choose a smaller town. Ten minutes out of town and you're in the boonies.
A 90 minute commute would take some folks into the next state... I can't imagine doing that daily - especially morning and night!
This! When I bought my last house it was a 45 minute drive to work, or an hour or so on a really bad day with an accident or snow. A year and a half later (after a ridiculous amount of people moved to this state) it was taking an hour and a half each way minimum, and up to 2+ hours if there was an accident or snow. I sold my house after living there less than 2 years because that drive was insane. Last weekend we went on a road trip and had to drive through the old city. It took me over 2 hours to get to the northern edge of that city and 2.5 to get to the exit I used to get off at to go home. It’s about 4 years since I originally bought that house. Thank the Lord I was financially able to move when things started getting ridiculous
*I also only had to commute into the office 1 or 2 days per week, so the original 45 minute drive wasn’t so bad.
I worked with a guy for awhile that had a 90 or so minute commute. Not only did he cross state lines, he crossed the time line. He said it was okay in the morning because we're an hour behind his house (and he was on a vanpool that let him sleep on the way to work most days), but that the afternoons were a killer because he wasn't getting home until nearly 7:00 his time.
90 minutes is 3 hours a day, omg. I wonder if people who do that have compared their hourly wages for 8hr days close to home vs 11hr days 90 minutes from home...
90 minute commutes really, really suck. I know. My (former) work was only a 35 min drive on sundays, but 90 min because of traffic. It used to be nly 50 minutes (a tie for transit or car travel in time) when I started. We chose it because family was within 10 minutes and it was exceptionally hard to find condos with 4 bedrooms (for reasons) closer.
It is one of the reasons that I no longer work (there). I would rather take a 85% pay cut and work PT/ FIRE from home.
Our place was not way out in the sticks. Google says that the time to cycle the 20 miles is 1hr 50min. It is very possible to make good home choices for your family and then get suckered with a bad commute within 10 years.
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I married this dude because I like being around him. In bed, outside of bed, he's my person, y'know? So I WANT to chat with him, and listen to audiobooks with him, and hash things out to make sure that they get fixed (and honestly, we're WAY better at hashing things out while well-rested at 8am than we ware when exhausted at 10pm - pro tip, only bring up relationship issues when you've got the energy to find a solution!), and talk about what we're in the mood to eat for dinner, and generally... be together.
If I didn't want that, then why be married? What am I missing?
I totally understand you!! My husband and I work together, walk the kids to and from school together, go to lunch (usually home or errands) almost every day together unless a meeting or exercise class interferes, commute together (all of 1 mile now but we drive so we can run home at lunch to spend more time with the dog most days), because we enjoy one another's company. Also, our primary love language for both of us is quality time.
Oh work. Nothing new specifically overheard recently, just some observed sadness with two co-workers who really need to take some time off for family reasons and can't afford to. It makes me sad and very resolved to not ever be in that position. We are just a couple years away from FI now...feeling more motivated than ever to get there.
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I married this dude because I like being around him. In bed, outside of bed, he's my person, y'know? So I WANT to chat with him, and listen to audiobooks with him, and hash things out to make sure that they get fixed (and honestly, we're WAY better at hashing things out while well-rested at 8am than we ware when exhausted at 10pm - pro tip, only bring up relationship issues when you've got the energy to find a solution!), and talk about what we're in the mood to eat for dinner, and generally... be together.
If I didn't want that, then why be married? What am I missing?
I totally understand you!! My husband and I work together, walk the kids to and from school together, go to lunch (usually home or errands) almost every day together unless a meeting or exercise class interferes, commute together (all of 1 mile now but we drive so we can run home at lunch to spend more time with the dog most days), because we enjoy one another's company. Also, our primary love language for both of us is quality time.
Oh work. Nothing new specifically overheard recently, just some observed sadness with two co-workers who really need to take some time off for family reasons and can't afford to. It makes me sad and very resolved to not ever be in that position. We are just a couple years away from FI now...feeling more motivated than ever to get there.
My wife got a job on the base I work at and will be a 5 minute walk from my desk to her (two blocks.) She starts soon. I can't wait until she gets settled. Lots of lunches/walks/IM on the computer, etc. I'm not a helicopter husband and neither is she, but she's great and I could hang out with her all day.
I overhear at work people bitch about their spouse ALL the time. I had a CW say one time "I have never heard you say one bad thing about your wife."
Like why would I?
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At one point my boss gave me a high five when I described my husband as a better person than me. Like I’m going to say bad things about him at work...
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At one point my boss gave me a high five when I described my husband as a better person than me. Like I’m going to say bad things about him at work...
Quite a few people do...
Once had a co-worker who commented to me that he had never heard me say even one thing that was not positive about my wife. Sad that's considered unusual.
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At a previous job I had a co-worker who's husband would always talk about his wife's appearance in a negative way (fat, ugly etc...).
In fact she was rather a very good looking woman.... and she was in on the joke since he does this all the time with new people he meets.
During his office's Christmas party he brings his wife and all his co-workers think he is cheating on his wife and had brought another woman. When he introduces her as his real wife they all give comments on how beautiful she is.
I guess he got a kick out of seeing all the expressions on everyone faces....
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At one point my boss gave me a high five when I described my husband as a better person than me. Like I’m going to say bad things about him at work...
Quite a few people do...
Once had a co-worker who commented to me that he had never heard me say even one thing that was not positive about my wife. Sad that's considered unusual.
If you expect people's conversations about their spouses to reflect the reality of their relationships, listening to lunchroom conversations around here is a reason to stay single.
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That sounds very familiar. We added a third to the mess so we are very much two relay runners handing a baton off to the other at the moment. One of the big reasons I look forward to FI so much.
Man, school just started a few weeks ago. Lots of work, lots of homework, and I'm halfway through week 2 of my husband traveling out of town for 3 straight weeks. I'm usually pretty functional, but on top of all that, my favorite small class gym closed down and I'm feeling a bit isolated.
First night he called this week I just said "I cannot talk to you right now" and hung up.
This morning, on the way to work, an old and sappy song came on my iPod and I literally teared up and had an overwhelming desire to just dig my nose into his chest hair. But he's gone for 2 more days and is leaving again on Monday. Sigh.
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I finally called out a male co-worker the other day (in a semi-jokey way) on how he impersonates his wife at work. He makes her sound like she's pissed off about everything all the time. I've met her and can't imagine that she's like that at home. It will be interesting to see if he keeps it up. The trope about women being bitchy because they have any type of opinion is just so tiring.
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I finally called out a male co-worker the other day (in a semi-jokey way) on how he impersonates his wife at work. He makes her sound like she's pissed off about everything all the time. I've met her and can't imagine that she's like that at home. It will be interesting to see if he keeps it up. The trope about women being bitchy because they have any type of opinion is just so tiring.
You don’t have to be a bitch about it
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You don’t have to be a bitch about it
Oh I can't help it with my raging lady hormones and all.
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I finally called out a male co-worker the other day (in a semi-jokey way) on how he impersonates his wife at work. He makes her sound like she's pissed off about everything all the time. I've met her and can't imagine that she's like that at home. It will be interesting to see if he keeps it up. The trope about women being bitchy because they have any type of opinion is just so tiring.
Then there is the other extreme.
DW tells me about a couple where online one spouse gushes about the other. In real life same spouse complains rather than gushes. We know they struggle with their relationship.
Feuding seems like so much work compared to just getting along.
Commuting: DW and I carpool. Love the few minutes we get alone together (short drive). Occasionally also do lunch when one of us isn't pre-occupied with work duties. Our lunch dates can be better than dinner dates.
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I finally called out a male co-worker the other day (in a semi-jokey way) on how he impersonates his wife at work. He makes her sound like she's pissed off about everything all the time. I've met her and can't imagine that she's like that at home. It will be interesting to see if he keeps it up. The trope about women being bitchy because they have any type of opinion is just so tiring.
Then there is the other extreme.
DW tells me about a couple where online one spouse gushes about the other. In real life same spouse complains rather than gushes. We know they struggle with their relationship.
Feuding seems like so much work compared to just getting along.
Commuting: DW and I carpool. Love the few minutes we get alone together (short drive). Occasionally also do lunch when one of us isn't pre-occupied with work duties. Our lunch dates can be better than dinner dates.
Very sad... I have noticed that online posts that gush about "the love of my life" ... especially where there wasn't a lot of that for the 2 years previous... tend to prelude a breakup.
It's like one last hurrah to try to convince yourself that the marriage is good, the spouse is a great person for you, etc.
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Last week, one of my coworkers excitedly told me over lunch that she had discovered 401k loans. She asked if I realized that was possible, acting like it was the best news ever. I mean yeah, I did know about 401k loans before then. She went on to tell me what a better deal it was to just pay herself back than pay high interest on her many maxed out credit cards, and how she planned to take another 401k loan in the future to use as a house downpayment since she surely could never save up that much money. I felt bad for her but remembered the many times she has spent ~$20 for lunch multiple times per week and all of the local restaurants and food trucks know her on sight.
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Last week, one of my coworkers excitedly told me over lunch that she had discovered 401k loans. She asked if I realized that was possible, acting like it was the best news ever. I mean yeah, I did know about 401k loans before then. She went on to tell me what a better deal it was to just pay herself back than pay high interest on her many maxed out credit cards, and how she planned to take another 401k loan in the future to use as a house downpayment since she surely could never save up that much money. I felt bad for her but remembered the many times she has spent ~$20 for lunch multiple times per week and all of the local restaurants and food trucks know her on sight.
And after she quits her job for another one, or gets laid off from this one, you'll hear a tale of woe and misery. "What? I have to pay it back right away? Or pay a huge tax penalty? How was I to know?!"
Is that what you expect, too?
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I finally called out a male co-worker the other day (in a semi-jokey way) on how he impersonates his wife at work. He makes her sound like she's pissed off about everything all the time. I've met her and can't imagine that she's like that at home. It will be interesting to see if he keeps it up. The trope about women being bitchy because they have any type of opinion is just so tiring.
Then there is the other extreme.
DW tells me about a couple where online one spouse gushes about the other. In real life same spouse complains rather than gushes. We know they struggle with their relationship.
Feuding seems like so much work compared to just getting along.
Commuting: DW and I carpool. Love the few minutes we get alone together (short drive). Occasionally also do lunch when one of us isn't pre-occupied with work duties. Our lunch dates can be better than dinner dates.
Very sad... I have noticed that online posts that gush about "the love of my life" ... especially where there wasn't a lot of that for the 2 years previous... tend to prelude a breakup.
It's like one last hurrah to try to convince yourself that the marriage is good, the spouse is a great person for you, etc.
I remember being on a short and awkward trip with a couple and they kept fighting all the time, really awkward 'I'm not getting out of the bathroom because I'm mad at you'-type of fights. They hadn't talked to each other irl for at least an hour and then she posted something like 'happy anniversary babe <3 <3 <3 love you forever' and an old, very sloppy romantic picture of them together. I think they broke up within 2 weeks of that trip.
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I agree with that theory about online gushy couples breaking up. I know at least 3 now divorced couples who used to gush all the time on FB about how great the other spouse was and post photos of their spouse and saying how gorgeous they were. Couple of months later - divorce.
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I agree with that theory about online gushy couples breaking up. I know at least 3 now divorced couples who used to gush all the time on FB about how great the other spouse was and post photos of their spouse and saying how gorgeous they were. Couple of months later - divorce.
Sometimes I am a cynic.
In such a mode I suspect that behavior is a try to "sell" their partner to someone else so that they have a "he was cheating" reason.
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Guy walks into my office with a delivery, chats up front desk people.
"Just spent too much on a bunch of barbie stuff for my girl - nothing too good for her"
My comment from across the room "I agree - just bought another share of Mattel stock for my girl."
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Wow that was a wonderful dropkick there!
I hope you like your tea saltet.
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Posting to follow
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Just remembered a story from the go-go days of 2007. A new hire engineer, we'll call her "Wendy", had been with our team since January. It was August and she was going to take her first week vacation since starting work as a paid adult. The conversation went a little something like this:
Wendy: "I'm leaving for vacation on Saturday. Eight days in Paris and Brussels."
Me: "That's fantastic. I'm a lover of travel too, and ..."
Wendy: "And now that I have a job, I don't have to slum it in economy any more."
Me: "Well just because you're working doesn't..."
Wendy: "We're booked in XYZ hotel too. Look at the pictures online."
Me: "Wow, that's like a block from the Louvre. Are those antiques in the room? Is this a honeymoon or graduation present?" (Don't remember the exact hotel, but it was like $450 / night.)
Wendy: "No just vacation. I want to go to London and Oxford in the fall too."
My back of the envelope calculation told me this gal and her friend were taking $4500/person vacations (not including dining, activities, or shopping) right out of college multiple times a year. With those things it was probably closer to $7000. I was floored.
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Last week, one of my coworkers excitedly told me over lunch that she had discovered 401k loans. She asked if I realized that was possible, acting like it was the best news ever. I mean yeah, I did know about 401k loans before then. She went on to tell me what a better deal it was to just pay herself back than pay high interest on her many maxed out credit cards, and how she planned to take another 401k loan in the future to use as a house downpayment since she surely could never save up that much money. I felt bad for her but remembered the many times she has spent ~$20 for lunch multiple times per week and all of the local restaurants and food trucks know her on sight.
And after she quits her job for another one, or gets laid off from this one, you'll hear a tale of woe and misery. "What? I have to pay it back right away? Or pay a huge tax penalty? How was I to know?!"
Is that what you expect, too?
Yep, had a coworker who took out a loan to buy a car after the last one was totaled and ended up getting laid off with the loans still unpaid. Took a major hit the following year with the tax penalties and during a major bout of unemployment. Heard the tale of woe on that one.
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I agree with that theory about online gushy couples breaking up. I know at least 3 now divorced couples who used to gush all the time on FB about how great the other spouse was and post photos of their spouse and saying how gorgeous they were. Couple of months later - divorce.
Sometimes I am a cynic.
In such a mode I suspect that behavior is a try to "sell" their partner to someone else so that they have a "he was cheating" reason.
In my experience it more has to do with those couples being more volatile and often more immature in general. Oooh I love him he is the one for me! to "I can't believe he left the toliet seat/forgot our anniversary!" to "I love him so much" etc. I find those people exhausting.
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Just remembered a story from the go-go days of 2007. A new hire engineer, we'll call her "Wendy", had been with our team since January. It was August and she was going to take her first week vacation since starting work as a paid adult. The conversation went a little something like this:
Wendy: "I'm leaving for vacation on Saturday. Eight days in Paris and Brussels."
Me: "That's fantastic. I'm a lover of travel too, and ..."
Wendy: "And now that I have a job, I don't have to slum it in economy any more."
Me: "Well just because you're working doesn't..."
Wendy: "We're booked in XYZ hotel too. Look at the pictures online."
Me: "Wow, that's like a block from the Louvre. Are those antiques in the room? Is this a honeymoon or graduation present?" (Don't remember the exact hotel, but it was like $450 / night.)
Wendy: "No just vacation. I want to go to London and Oxford in the fall too."
My back of the envelope calculation told me this gal and her friend were taking $4500/person vacations (not including dining, activities, or shopping) right out of college multiple times a year. With those things it was probably closer to $7000. I was floored.
This reminds me of a story that is currently happening, but not with a work colleague. One of my husband’s friends is in his 50s and no where near ready to retire. I have gotten blurbs about his financial situation before and the way he uses credit cards. Anyway - he is currently on a trip to London. He was bragging that since this is his trip of a lifetime across the sea, he bought a roundtrip 1st class ticket for $5000. Not business class, not extra legroom class, full-on first class with the lay down seats. DH and I were commenting that we think we could do the whole trip for the 2 of us (definitely for one of us) for the $5000 he spent on the plane ticket alone. While he is there is doing everything top of the line and posting daily pictures on facebook and it’s just insane. He said he took out another credit card for this trip and he chose the Apple Card! And I personally know another one of his cards with associated with Bank of America and no real rewards. I wish he would’ve mentioned a new card sooner so we could point him in the direction of a travel rewards card that gives him actual bonuses and good cash back instead of this flashy new “apple” credit card. Oh well. At this point (I’m 30) I think I will be retired before he is. We are already in the partially retired situation since we can afford for DH to be a stay at home dad.
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I agree with that theory about online gushy couples breaking up. I know at least 3 now divorced couples who used to gush all the time on FB about how great the other spouse was and post photos of their spouse and saying how gorgeous they were. Couple of months later - divorce.
Sometimes I am a cynic.
In such a mode I suspect that behavior is a try to "sell" their partner to someone else so that they have a "he was cheating" reason.
In my experience it more has to do with those couples being more volatile and often more immature in general. Oooh I love him he is the one for me! to "I can't believe he left the toliet seat/forgot our anniversary!" to "I love him so much" etc. I find those people exhausting.
My husband TOTALLY forgot our anniversary this year. To be fair, I remembered the morning of, so I just made a relatively nice dinner and figured we'd call it even, but then he walked in and was like 'wow, this is nice, what's the occasion', and like... the door was open, I just COULDN'T, so I said 'well, DEAR, it IS our anniversary' and I have never seen a face that was the picture-perfect definition of 'oh shit' before. Hilarious. (There was a lot of laughing at that face, because maaaan...)
Neither of us are big on date-related romantic gestures, though - I mean, I expect (and recieve, and give) love and affection on a daily basis, and also general recognition and appreciation, and joint work and problem-solving and all the stuff that makes this work. My expectations are way higher than 'remembers the anniversary' or 'bought flowers', and they're also less sharable-on-social-media, status-symbol-oriented.
(Swear to god, the most romantic thing he's ever said to me was at 2am, the night all the kids got stomach flu and spewed in arcs over the room, so we'd showered them and tucked them into our bed so we could deal with the biohazard that was their room, and he looked at me, exhausted and grossed out and almost keeling over, and was like 'well, there's no one else I'd want here with me. Thanks for being here'. And that, for me, is a good relationship - if you can find a way to demonstrate affection and appreciation through THAT, we can build something really solid, whereas 'remembering an anniversary' is a google calendar reminder that means eff all to me in the long run.)
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I agree with that theory about online gushy couples breaking up. I know at least 3 now divorced couples who used to gush all the time on FB about how great the other spouse was and post photos of their spouse and saying how gorgeous they were. Couple of months later - divorce.
(Swear to god, the most romantic thing he's ever said to me was at 2am, the night all the kids got stomach flu and spewed in arcs over the room, so we'd showered them and tucked them into our bed so we could deal with the biohazard that was their room, and he looked at me, exhausted and grossed out and almost keeling over, and was like 'well, there's no one else I'd want here with me. Thanks for being here'. And that, for me, is a good relationship - if you can find a way to demonstrate affection and appreciation through THAT, we can build something really solid, whereas 'remembering an anniversary' is a google calendar reminder that means eff all to me in the long run.)
That is beautiful.
More so maybe because we are ankle-deep in similar trenches right now. Thank goodness for wonderful partners.
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(Swear to god, the most romantic thing he's ever said to me was at 2am, the night all the kids got stomach flu and spewed in arcs over the room, so we'd showered them and tucked them into our bed so we could deal with the biohazard that was their room, and he looked at me, exhausted and grossed out and almost keeling over, and was like 'well, there's no one else I'd want here with me. Thanks for being here'. And that, for me, is a good relationship - if you can find a way to demonstrate affection and appreciation through THAT, we can build something really solid, whereas 'remembering an anniversary' is a google calendar reminder that means eff all to me in the long run.)
You might like what I think is the most romatic thing I ever read (well, I am a bibliophile):
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/437516-you-should-date-a-girl-who-reads-date-a-girl
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(Swear to god, the most romantic thing he's ever said to me was at 2am, the night all the kids got stomach flu and spewed in arcs over the room, so we'd showered them and tucked them into our bed so we could deal with the biohazard that was their room, and he looked at me, exhausted and grossed out and almost keeling over, and was like 'well, there's no one else I'd want here with me. Thanks for being here'. And that, for me, is a good relationship - if you can find a way to demonstrate affection and appreciation through THAT, we can build something really solid,
I think I would find romance in just the word "WE" in the above statement.
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Yeah, but at least in my marriage the not celebrating anniversaries, v day, etc was in addition to not having the regular acts of affection and regard, spending time together either (the last 7 years or so). So those other signifiers became that much more important to me. In retrospect it was silly, as I was focusing on the wrong thing. And getting roses, a nice gift doesn't really mean anything if it has no meaning or heart behind it for the person giving it. Hard lesson to learn.
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Just remembered a story from the go-go days of 2007. A new hire engineer, we'll call her "Wendy", had been with our team since January. It was August and she was going to take her first week vacation since starting work as a paid adult. The conversation went a little something like this:
Wendy: "I'm leaving for vacation on Saturday. Eight days in Paris and Brussels."
Me: "That's fantastic. I'm a lover of travel too, and ..."
Wendy: "And now that I have a job, I don't have to slum it in economy any more."
Me: "Well just because you're working doesn't..."
Wendy: "We're booked in XYZ hotel too. Look at the pictures online."
Me: "Wow, that's like a block from the Louvre. Are those antiques in the room? Is this a honeymoon or graduation present?" (Don't remember the exact hotel, but it was like $450 / night.)
Wendy: "No just vacation. I want to go to London and Oxford in the fall too."
My back of the envelope calculation told me this gal and her friend were taking $4500/person vacations (not including dining, activities, or shopping) right out of college multiple times a year. With those things it was probably closer to $7000. I was floored.
This reminds me of a story that is currently happening, but not with a work colleague. One of my husband’s friends is in his 50s and no where near ready to retire. I have gotten blurbs about his financial situation before and the way he uses credit cards. Anyway - he is currently on a trip to London. He was bragging that since this is his trip of a lifetime across the sea, he bought a roundtrip 1st class ticket for $5000. Not business class, not extra legroom class, full-on first class with the lay down seats. DH and I were commenting that we think we could do the whole trip for the 2 of us (definitely for one of us) for the $5000 he spent on the plane ticket alone. While he is there is doing everything top of the line and posting daily pictures on facebook and it’s just insane. He said he took out another credit card for this trip and he chose the Apple Card! And I personally know another one of his cards with associated with Bank of America and no real rewards. I wish he would’ve mentioned a new card sooner so we could point him in the direction of a travel rewards card that gives him actual bonuses and good cash back instead of this flashy new “apple” credit card. Oh well. At this point (I’m 30) I think I will be retired before he is. We are already in the partially retired situation since we can afford for DH to be a stay at home dad.
I previously had a boss who once came out with the following gem...
"It's simply not possible to take the family on holiday to South Africa for less than $100,000."
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Ouch. For just one person, I could pretty easily come up the points for a round trip first class ticket to London with probably just a couple credit card sign ups.
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Ouch. For just one person, I could pretty easily come up the points for a round trip first class ticket to London with probably just a couple credit card sign ups.
Good luck finding availability. (Even then, how many options are there for real first class between London and the USA? BA is probably the only direct one with a first class cabin and their first class is barely worth of being called such.)
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Ouch. For just one person, I could pretty easily come up the points for a round trip first class ticket to London with probably just a couple credit card sign ups.
Good luck finding availability. (Even then, how many options are there for real first class between London and the USA? BA is probably the only direct one with a first class cabin and their first class is barely worth of being called such.)
I dunno, a friend of mine's 16 yo daughter did a summer camp/ program at Oxford a few years ago. She flew there first class. I saw the pictures. Man. Like a little cubby with a bed in it. Couldn't quite believe it.
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True, many airlines have gotten rid of first class by now. The business class options now are like what first class was back in the day. So I don't really see the need for "real" first class. In long haul business class you still get the lie flat seats, and many planes now have very private pods in business.
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Kitsune, what a great story! You guys know what's important.
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Ouch. For just one person, I could pretty easily come up the points for a round trip first class ticket to London with probably just a couple credit card sign ups.
Good luck finding availability. (Even then, how many options are there for real first class between London and the USA? BA is probably the only direct one with a first class cabin and their first class is barely worth of being called such.)
I dunno, a friend of mine's 16 yo daughter did a summer camp/ program at Oxford a few years ago. She flew there first class. I saw the pictures. Man. Like a little cubby with a bed in it. Couldn't quite believe it.
thats kinda what business class is like now on a few airlines. My mate flew a business class and she got a little private room and a private hot shower. It was super fancy
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(Swear to god, the most romantic thing he's ever said to me was at 2am, the night all the kids got stomach flu and spewed in arcs over the room, so we'd showered them and tucked them into our bed so we could deal with the biohazard that was their room, and he looked at me, exhausted and grossed out and almost keeling over, and was like 'well, there's no one else I'd want here with me. Thanks for being here'. And that, for me, is a good relationship - if you can find a way to demonstrate affection and appreciation through THAT, we can build something really solid, whereas 'remembering an anniversary' is a google calendar reminder that means eff all to me in the long run.)
My SIL's first baby was a very difficult delivery, compounded by insurance refusing to cover the hospital for a 2nd day of recovery ordered by the doctor. When she and her husband arrived home with their newborn, exhausted and frustrated, they discovered that in the 24 hours they'd been gone, the dog had developed a GI infection, leaving vomit and diarrhoea everywhere, and the sewer had backed up into their only bathroom.
I don't know exactly what romantic words were said, but twenty-five years later they are still happily married.
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(Swear to god, the most romantic thing he's ever said to me was at 2am, the night all the kids got stomach flu and spewed in arcs over the room, so we'd showered them and tucked them into our bed so we could deal with the biohazard that was their room, and he looked at me, exhausted and grossed out and almost keeling over, and was like 'well, there's no one else I'd want here with me. Thanks for being here'. And that, for me, is a good relationship - if you can find a way to demonstrate affection and appreciation through THAT, we can build something really solid, whereas 'remembering an anniversary' is a google calendar reminder that means eff all to me in the long run.)
My SIL's first baby was a very difficult delivery, compounded by insurance refusing to cover the hospital for a 2nd day of recovery ordered by the doctor. When she and her husband arrived home with their newborn, exhausted and frustrated, they discovered that in the 24 hours they'd been gone, the dog had developed a GI infection, leaving vomit and diarrhoea everywhere, and the sewer had backed up into their only bathroom.
I don't know exactly what romantic words were said, but twenty-five years later they are still happily married.
This clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7S89GM5N7w) from Yours, Mine, and Ours (the original) holds a special place in my heart.
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Ouch. For just one person, I could pretty easily come up the points for a round trip first class ticket to London with probably just a couple credit card sign ups.
Good luck finding availability. (Even then, how many options are there for real first class between London and the USA? BA is probably the only direct one with a first class cabin and their first class is barely worth of being called such.)
I dunno, a friend of mine's 16 yo daughter did a summer camp/ program at Oxford a few years ago. She flew there first class. I saw the pictures. Man. Like a little cubby with a bed in it. Couldn't quite believe it.
thats kinda what business class is like now on a few airlines. My mate flew a business class and she got a little private room and a private hot shower. It was super fancy
That is because business class is where the airlines make money. After all it's generally paid for by businesses, the people using it aren't price sensitive.
You need three tourists to make up for one business guy, so they are stored like canned sardines.
On the other end you cannot demand that much more for first class then the (relativly) overpriced business class, but you need even more space.
Old wisdom is that if airlines could fill the planes with just business class, they would do it.
I guess they started now by doing away the first class and charging business first class rates ;)
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d three tourists to make up for one business guy, so they are stored like canned sardines.
On the other end you cannot demand that much more for first class then the (relativly) overpriced business class, but you need even more space.
Old wisdom is that if airlines could fill the planes with just business class, they would do it.
I guess they started now by doing away the first class and charging business first class rates ;)
It started with beds in first, wide seats in business, and small seats in economy.
Now you have (admittedly narrow/constricted) beds in business, wide seats in Premium Economy, and small seats in economy.
But first does still distinguish itself by having real beds (as opposed to having your fee/legs stuck in a narrow hole), more space to move around, and of course better food and service (at least on the premium airlines - United first meanwhile was often quite dire).
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(Swear to god, the most romantic thing he's ever said to me was at 2am, the night all the kids got stomach flu and spewed in arcs over the room, so we'd showered them and tucked them into our bed so we could deal with the biohazard that was their room, and he looked at me, exhausted and grossed out and almost keeling over, and was like 'well, there's no one else I'd want here with me. Thanks for being here'. And that, for me, is a good relationship - if you can find a way to demonstrate affection and appreciation through THAT, we can build something really solid, whereas 'remembering an anniversary' is a google calendar reminder that means eff all to me in the long run.)
My SIL's first baby was a very difficult delivery, compounded by insurance refusing to cover the hospital for a 2nd day of recovery ordered by the doctor. When she and her husband arrived home with their newborn, exhausted and frustrated, they discovered that in the 24 hours they'd been gone, the dog had developed a GI infection, leaving vomit and diarrhoea everywhere, and the sewer had backed up into their only bathroom.
I don't know exactly what romantic words were said, but twenty-five years later they are still happily married.
This clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7S89GM5N7w) from Yours, Mine, and Ours (the original) holds a special place in my heart.
Love that movie.
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To get back on topic:
"I'm investing big in McDonald's!"
-"why?"
"Because when the economy is down, everybody gets MacDonald's because it's cheap, and when the economy is up, everybody gets MacDonald's because they're too busy to cook!"
yup. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-all-the-dividend-aristocrat-stocks-have-performed-this-year-2019-07-25
They're investing in something solid... Just not for the right reasons
I really don’t know if McDonald’s can compete going forward. They’ve tried so hard for so long to increase their perception of quality and to get people to move up from the languishing dollar menu. But why on earth would I want to spend day $4 on a Big Mac when I can get an in n out double double for $3.45? The only thing they have going for them is essentially a loss leader
I don't eat at McDonald's if I can help it, but I own some stock, their stock price has more than doubled in the last 5 years.
My money's on Chick-fil-A
Actually my money is in vtsax, and Chick-fil-A is private, but my metaphorical money would be on them
They've got it down to a science
Not really. They just brine their chicken in pickle juice. Try it some time.
Unbeknownst to me until somewhat recently.... My wifes grandma gifted her shares of McDonalds for a graduation present in the early 00s. She casually mentioned this to me one of the times I was trying to get her to pay attention to our finances. We found the online account. It was not a huge gift, but it has certainly grown over the past twenty years.
In n Out is only in 2 western states vs. a global restaurant. Around the world, in most places, McDs is still seen as a unique treat vs here in North America, where it's just another fast food joint in a large pool of FF joints.
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I work in a hospital and on some "pay day" Friday nights, an absurd amount of staff call off work. Nurses, nurses assistants, respiratory therapists, etc.
Even when I was a teenager and got paid on Fridays, I never had to call off work so I could spend that money the day I got it. I don't get it.
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I previously had a boss who once came out with the following gem...
"It's simply not possible to take the family on holiday to South Africa for less than $100,000."
Er, maybe he meant SA Rand. 100,000 ZAR is worth about 6,654 USD. Now that would be more like it, lol.
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@ice_beard In N Out is in 6 states: http://www.in-n-out.com/locations and http://www.in-n-out.com/docs/default-source/downloads/locations_printable.pdf
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In n Out is only in 2 western states vs. a global restaurant. Around the world, in most places, McDs is still seen as a unique treat vs here in North America, where it's just another fast food joint in a large pool of FF joints.
U wot? Citation needed...
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In n Out is only in 2 western states vs. a global restaurant. Around the world, in most places, McDs is still seen as a unique treat vs here in North America, where it's just another fast food joint in a large pool of FF joints.
U wot? Citation needed...
I've had McD's in a few other countries, and I can unequivocally state that the food is better in foreign McD's. When I was in Russia, it was indeed a nicer place to eat--clean, well-lit, modern, and it tasted quite good.
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I went to McDonalds more during the 2 weeks I was in Guatemala last summer than I have in the US over the past 10 years. The food was better than here, and more importantly, it was the most reliable place to find a clean bathroom and/or wifi, especially when traveling outside of Guatemala City.
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In n Out is only in 2 western states vs. a global restaurant. Around the world, in most places, McDs is still seen as a unique treat vs here in North America, where it's just another fast food joint in a large pool of FF joints.
U wot? Citation needed...
I've had McD's in a few other countries, and I can unequivocally state that the food is better in foreign McD's. When I was in Russia, it was indeed a nicer place to eat--clean, well-lit, modern, and it tasted quite good.
McDonald's in Italy were nicer too. And it was a treat when I lived there.
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Maybe that has something to do with the fact that if something is called '100%beef' it actually has to contain 100% beef? In the US I seem to remember it only has to contain 70% (?) beef to be labelled 100%.
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Maybe that has something to do with the fact that if something is called '100%beef' it actually has to contain 100% beef? In the US I seem to remember it only has to contain 70% (?) beef to be labelled 100%.
It’s all beef, just not all lean. It can contain up to 30% fat. You really don’t want a burger made with 100% lean as it would be incredibly dry.
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McDonald's in Italy were nicer too. And it was a treat when I lived there.
Well sure, but I'm scepticals that the locals in Italy would consider it a treat, there's much better food to be had there after all.
Same with literally any other country I know of. Except China, american fast food in China has a kind of special position.
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McD's not considered a treat in the UK or any of Europe I've been to. They were maybe 30 years ago. I mean kids think of McD's as a treat if they don't go there all the time, but not because it's amazing cuisine, but because there are plastic toys and play areas.
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McD's not considered a treat in the UK or any of Europe I've been to. They were maybe 30 years ago. I mean kids think of McD's as a treat if they don't go there all the time, but not because it's amazing cuisine, but because there are plastic toys and play areas.
I think it's probably the novelty of it. I was in Moscow just after their first McDeathwish opened. Keep in mind this was before the Yeltsin administration so the Soviet planned economy was still in the process of failing to scale well. The line was around the city block. We didn't try to go in, but we debated why it would be such an attraction. We settled on a few key points: novelty, predictability (something many Muscovite restaurants had a problem with because supply issues meant they frequently ran out of food, whereas McDeathwish had its independent supply line because it was a franchise), a minor sense of rebellion in the form of embracing an obvious capitalist icon, and some quality control in the food safety which is something that can only be appreciated if you've seen raw meat for sale in an open-air market (no packaging whatsoever... planned economy strikes again).
Obviously Italy doesn't have the planned economy problems that the former Soviet Union did, so it must be a combination of the novelty and the tourists from the other side of the Atlantic.
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McDonald's in Italy were nicer too. And it was a treat when I lived there.
Well sure, but I'm scepticals that the locals in Italy would consider it a treat, there's much better food to be had there after all.
Same with literally any other country I know of. Except China, american fast food in China has a kind of special position.
I made a mistake - we (my American friends) thought it was a treat b/c we were living in Italy and homesick to varying degrees. The McDonald's nearest us was usually busy just like here in the states. This was the early 1990s.
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My Italian friends appreciated a good burger and introduced me to a great Mom 'n Pop place with a view of the bay. It was more of a sit down and wait kind of restaurant.
McDonald's in Italy was more upscale than the states at the time. Was more like a Starbucks than the kid themed, plastic furniture, clown mascot, 2 cent toy in your Happy Meal kind of place.
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Not overheard at my work, but from two gas station employees talking:
E1: T-shirts are like $23. No one makes $23 an hour
E2: Maybe software engineers
E1: I can't even afford thrift store shirt prices
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Not overheard at my work, but from two gas station employees talking:
E1: T-shirts are like $23. No one makes $23 an hour
E2: Maybe software engineers
E1: I can't even afford thrift store shirt prices
I shook my head on every line of this dialog. By the end I was LOLing.
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Not overheard at my work, but from two gas station employees talking:
E1: T-shirts are like $23. No one makes $23 an hour
E2: Maybe software engineers
E1: I can't even afford thrift store shirt prices
I shook my head on every line of this dialog. By the end I was LOLing.
I think there's a tenancy to think everyone is 'just like me'.....but it's sad that they think software engineers make less than $50K a year.
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Not overheard at my work, but from two gas station employees talking:
E1: T-shirts are like $23. No one makes $23 an hour
E2: Maybe software engineers
E1: I can't even afford thrift store shirt prices
It's been a while since I've heard a conversation where every single line was totally and completely wrong.
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My Italian friends appreciated a good burger and introduced me to a great Mom 'n Pop place with a view of the bay. It was more of a sit down and wait kind of restaurant.
McDonald's in Italy was more upscale than the states at the time. Was more like a Starbucks than the kid themed, plastic furniture, clown mascot, 2 cent toy in your Happy Meal kind of place.
It's still like that here in Italy. I've only been to McDonalds maybe 3 times with the kids since I've lived here in Italy but each time the place has been packed with well dressed Italians for a family meal out. I think it's a combination of the fact that the McDonaldses here are nicer than in the US (cleaner and often in historic buildings) and the fact that people have a lot less disposable income here as a rule due to low salaries so eating out is always a treat. My Italian friends were kind of surprised that I had a negative view of McDonalds. Fast food isn't a big thing here so McD's is pretty much your only option of that's what you want.
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Re: McD's in Europe:
They were everywhere in eastern europe when I visited last month. I grabbed a late-night drunken Big Mac in Salzburg one night b/c there was nothing else open.
Keeping with stereotypes, the only others in there at that hour besides us (drunk Canadians) were drunk Aussies.
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In France I went once with a friend because it was the only place you could get a cup of coffee. Any cafe where you ordered a coffee would serve an espresso.
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Re: McD's in Europe:
They were everywhere in eastern europe when I visited last month. I grabbed a late-night drunken Big Mac in Salzburg one night b/c there was nothing else open.
Keeping with stereotypes, the only others in there at that hour besides us (drunk Canadians) were drunk Aussies.
drunk Canadians and dunk Aussies - now THAT sounds like a party!
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In France I went once with a friend because it was the only place you could get a cup of coffee. Any cafe where you ordered a coffee would serve an espresso.
You don’t like americano?
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In France I went once with a friend because it was the only place you could get a cup of coffee. Any cafe where you ordered a coffee would serve an espresso.
You don’t like americano?
Yeah, when I was living in France and my parents came to visit me is when I discovered the Americano. It was the only coffee at a cafe they could handle. It worked just fine for them, though.
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I previously had a boss who once came out with the following gem...
"It's simply not possible to take the family on holiday to South Africa for less than $100,000."
Er, maybe he meant SA Rand. 100,000 ZAR is worth about 6,654 USD. Now that would be more like it, lol.
Whilst that does sound more reasonable, I can definitely confirm that wasn't the case...
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Re: McD's in Europe:
They were everywhere in eastern europe when I visited last month. I grabbed a late-night drunken Big Mac in Salzburg one night b/c there was nothing else open.
Keeping with stereotypes, the only others in there at that hour besides us (drunk Canadians) were drunk Aussies.
drunk Canadians and dunk Aussies - now THAT sounds like a party!
Add in a few drunk South Africans and you have yourself a base metal mine! They all drink way too much, I couldn't keep up.
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I work in a hospital and on some "pay day" Friday nights, an absurd amount of staff call off work. Nurses, nurses assistants, respiratory therapists, etc.
Even when I was a teenager and got paid on Fridays, I never had to call off work so I could spend that money the day I got it. I don't get it.
We work a 5-4-9 schedule where we're off every other Friday. TPTB discovered years ago that making payday the Thursday before the off-Friday was a great way to prevent this.
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Not overheard at my work, but from two gas station employees talking:
E1: T-shirts are like $23. No one makes $23 an hour
E2: Maybe software engineers
E1: I can't even afford thrift store shirt prices
There is an easy solution to this: Kick out one of them and let the gas station be run by only the remaining one, like it is done here everywhere.
Than the other could earn double the salary... well, actually not, because of capitalism. He would likely earn less since there is now one more worker waiting to take his job.
But going away from the propaganda: What would happen if you told those two guys that in the not so distant past poor people did not worry one inch over T-Shirt prices, because all they could ever hope to have was 2 sets of work clothes covered with patches and one good set for sundays?
Clothing has become so rediculously cheap (and admittely often of the equivalent quality) they should never be on your list of worries. Not because of the price. Shoes that fit my feet - now that is a different topic :(
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I work in a hospital and on some "pay day" Friday nights, an absurd amount of staff call off work. Nurses, nurses assistants, respiratory therapists, etc.
Even when I was a teenager and got paid on Fridays, I never had to call off work so I could spend that money the day I got it. I don't get it.
We work a 5-4-9 schedule where we're off every other Friday. TPTB discovered years ago that making payday the Thursday before the off-Friday was a great way to prevent this.
Some jobs ago I had co-workers who often called us in for a payday visit to the pub, each month again. Of course, I never saw the point of spending your payday the first day in the pub. In the further past this happened regularly, working men spending their paycheck in the pub, leaving their wife and children without income.
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I work in a hospital and on some "pay day" Friday nights, an absurd amount of staff call off work. Nurses, nurses assistants, respiratory therapists, etc.
Even when I was a teenager and got paid on Fridays, I never had to call off work so I could spend that money the day I got it. I don't get it.
We work a 5-4-9 schedule where we're off every other Friday. TPTB discovered years ago that making payday the Thursday before the off-Friday was a great way to prevent this.
Some jobs ago 8 had co-workers who often called us in for a payday visit to the pub, each month again. Of course, I never saw the point of spending your payday the first day in the pub. In the further past this happened regularly, working men spending their paycheck in the pub, leaving their wife and children without income.
Here too, back in the 1860s - it was the start of the temperance movement in Canada. In 1945 when Family Allowance was introduced, the money went to the mothers in hope that the money would get spent on the children instead of at the pub. It mostly worked.
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In France I went once with a friend because it was the only place you could get a cup of coffee. Any cafe where you ordered a coffee would serve an espresso.
If I recall correctly you have to ask for a "Caffè Americano". Its a watered down espresso but gets the job done.
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I work in a hospital and on some "pay day" Friday nights, an absurd amount of staff call off work. Nurses, nurses assistants, respiratory therapists, etc.
Even when I was a teenager and got paid on Fridays, I never had to call off work so I could spend that money the day I got it. I don't get it.
We work a 5-4-9 schedule where we're off every other Friday. TPTB discovered years ago that making payday the Thursday before the off-Friday was a great way to prevent this.
Some jobs ago 8 had co-workers who often called us in for a payday visit to the pub, each month again. Of course, I never saw the point of spending your payday the first day in the pub. In the further past this happened regularly, working men spending their paycheck in the pub, leaving their wife and children without income.
Here too, back in the 1860s - it was the start of the temperance movement in Canada. In 1945 when Family Allowance was introduced, the money went to the mothers in hope that the money would get spent on the children instead of at the pub. It mostly worked.
That's the kind of history people need to be taught. The temperance movement was more than a bunch of wet blankets. Well, I'm sure there were some wet blankets among the supporters. ;)
Wonder if the legalized pot will ever go sideways and become a problem?
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I work in a hospital and on some "pay day" Friday nights, an absurd amount of staff call off work. Nurses, nurses assistants, respiratory therapists, etc.
Even when I was a teenager and got paid on Fridays, I never had to call off work so I could spend that money the day I got it. I don't get it.
We work a 5-4-9 schedule where we're off every other Friday. TPTB discovered years ago that making payday the Thursday before the off-Friday was a great way to prevent this.
Some jobs ago 8 had co-workers who often called us in for a payday visit to the pub, each month again. Of course, I never saw the point of spending your payday the first day in the pub. In the further past this happened regularly, working men spending their paycheck in the pub, leaving their wife and children without income.
Here too, back in the 1860s - it was the start of the temperance movement in Canada. In 1945 when Family Allowance was introduced, the money went to the mothers in hope that the money would get spent on the children instead of at the pub. It mostly worked.
That's the kind of history people need to be taught. The temperance movement was more than a bunch of wet blankets. Well, I'm sure there were some wet blankets among the supporters. ;)
Wonder if the legalized pot will ever go sideways and become a problem?
The temperance movement was an attempt to get beyond paycheck-to-paycheck living and live-for-the-moment culture, which large numbers of people recognized as not being conducive to health or happiness especially in old age. However they misidentified alcohol as a vital link in the chain, if not the root cause of both those cultural problems. In reality, cultural problems such as the widespread acceptance of irresponsible living and the boring, meaningless lives (the kind that people drink or drug themselves up to avoid) stretched way beyond booze, and addiction turned out to be a phenomenon that didn't require alcohol.
I doubt live-for-the-moment culture will ever go away; it's become mainstream.
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In France I went once with a friend because it was the only place you could get a cup of coffee. Any cafe where you ordered a coffee would serve an espresso.
I thought the whole point of travelling was to experience how life is lived in other places.
Then again if one really wants filter coffees, most specialty coffee shops around the world seem to offer both espresso-based drinks and pourover.
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In France I went once with a friend because it was the only place you could get a cup of coffee. Any cafe where you ordered a coffee would serve an espresso.
I thought the whole point of travelling was to experience how life is lived in other places.
Then again if one really wants filter coffees, most specialty coffee shops around the world seem to offer both espresso-based drinks and pourover.
Sure. But when you live there for a year sometimes you just want a damn coffee like at home.
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I don't eat fastfood when I'm at home, but when I'm on holidays you can find me in a McD a lot more often, for several reasons: they have reliable wifi, clean toilets and safe food. I have immune issues so when I doubt in foreign countries, I look for the big yellow M. These days they offer pretty good quality food (for a fastfood place) lots of salads and veggie options on the menu. Their food is probably the best quality of all the cheap fastfood places. My doctor always recommends food from big American corporations in countries where the food quality is lower, because they risk getting sued for $$$$$ so they go to extreme lengths to make sure their food is safe and their internal regulations are super strict. I guess compensation culture is good for something :)
They are opening McCafe's in many cities in Europe now, that basically look like Starbucks except they cost half as much. They look pretty nice on the outside and McDonalds is known to have good coffee (at least in my country, don't know if they use the same machines everywhere). We grab a coffee from them with a group of coworkers a couple of times a year because it's the only restaurant in walking distance from our office and our work coffee is awful. It's maybe 5 times a year so the bonding aspect is worth the money. I have never visited Starbucks ever because it just seems so expensive - who in the right minds would pay over €5 for a cup of coffee when it costs half elsewhere?
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They are opening McCafe's in many cities in Europe now, that basically look like Starbucks except they cost half as much.
McCafes have been in Australia for a long time, are they new in Europe and the USA?
Edit: I looked it up apparently they started in Australia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCaf%C3%A9)
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In France I went once with a friend because it was the only place you could get a cup of coffee. Any cafe where you ordered a coffee would serve an espresso.
I thought the whole point of travelling was to experience how life is lived in other places.
Then again if one really wants filter coffees, most specialty coffee shops around the world seem to offer both espresso-based drinks and pourover.
Sure. But when you live there for a year sometimes you just want a damn coffee like at home.
My uncle legit treats Starbucks like the Hard Rock Cafe. He travels all over the world but HAS to hit a Starbucks in every city and hopefully get a mug if it has a local print. There are fewer Starbucks abroad (especially nations that have high coffee pride like France and Italy) but they do exist in tourist areas
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My mom (who has traveled to over 100 countries) has a goal every trip of getting pics of a McDonald’s, a bride, and a cat. Oddly, the latter is often the hardest!
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My mom (who has traveled to over 100 countries) has a goal every trip of getting pics of a McDonald’s, a bride, and a cat. Oddly, the latter is often the hardest!
Such a fun idea!
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They are opening McCafe's in many cities in Europe now, that basically look like Starbucks except they cost half as much.
McCafes have been in Australia for a long time, are they new in Europe and the USA?
Edit: I looked it up apparently they started in Australia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCaf%C3%A9)
I didn't know that either. Our national caffeine addiction strikes again! :)
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They are opening McCafe's in many cities in Europe now, that basically look like Starbucks except they cost half as much.
McCafes have been in Australia for a long time, are they new in Europe and the USA?
Edit: I looked it up apparently they started in Australia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCaf%C3%A9)
I didn't know that either. Our national caffeine addiction strikes again! :)
It's been a 'thing' in the US for a few years now.
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Office mate at work traded her car in for the exact same model, just another year. No reason other than the dealership offered it to her and she thought it was a good deal. It didn't cost her anything out of pocket and her payment stayed exactly the same.
I pointed out that she in essence just rented her last car for the past year. She didn't see why that was a bad thing. She felt it was totally normal and okay to always have a car payment. With that in mind, I didn't see any way to talk her out of doing this again next year.
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Office mate at work traded her car in for the exact same model, just another year. No reason other than the dealership offered it to her and she thought it was a good deal. It didn't cost her anything out of pocket and her payment stayed exactly the same.
I pointed out that she in essence just rented her last car for the past year. She didn't see why that was a bad thing. She felt it was totally normal and okay to always have a car payment. With that in mind, I didn't see any way to talk her out of doing this again next year.
There's no point. I've tried it with people whose 5-year lease contract ends and they "get" to pick out a new car. They talk about it like it's a gift from Father Christmas instead of a big purchase with their own money.
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Office mate at work traded her car in for the exact same model, just another year. No reason other than the dealership offered it to her and she thought it was a good deal. It didn't cost her anything out of pocket and her payment stayed exactly the same.
I pointed out that she in essence just rented her last car for the past year. She didn't see why that was a bad thing. She felt it was totally normal and okay to always have a car payment. With that in mind, I didn't see any way to talk her out of doing this again next year.
There's no point. I've tried it with people whose 5-year lease contract ends and they "get" to pick out a new car. They talk about it like it's a gift from Father Christmas instead of a big purchase with their own money.
Whereas I'm over here having a minor meltdown because I have to get a new car after mine was flooded and declared totaled. I don't exactly make a habit of throwing around thousands of dollar in a single purchase.
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There is a contingent in our population that literally thinks of car payments as so normal they can’t wrap their heads around the concept of paying one off... and then not having a car payment. Just owning a car.
I never had a car payment until I was 37 years old. Before then, I just bought beaters and only paid what I could afford. I bought one new car, realized what BS that was, and then went back to used cars I could pay for.
I’m super thankful for my early experiences. I can’t even imagine how much I’ve saved on this over the years.
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My mom (who has traveled to over 100 countries) has a goal every trip of getting pics of a McDonald’s, a bride, and a cat. Oddly, the latter is often the hardest!
Maybe in some countries, McDonald's got to the cats first? ;)
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Office mate at work traded her car in for the exact same model, just another year. No reason other than the dealership offered it to her and she thought it was a good deal. It didn't cost her anything out of pocket and her payment stayed exactly the same.
I pointed out that she in essence just rented her last car for the past year. She didn't see why that was a bad thing. She felt it was totally normal and okay to always have a car payment. With that in mind, I didn't see any way to talk her out of doing this again next year.
There's no point. I've tried it with people whose 5-year lease contract ends and they "get" to pick out a new car. They talk about it like it's a gift from Father Christmas instead of a big purchase with their own money.
This is why Apple introduces the iPhone purchase plan. I know people who pay monthly and “get” the new iPhone when it comes out every year. Act as if it’s a miracle from saint jobs
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Office mate at work traded her car in for the exact same model, just another year. No reason other than the dealership offered it to her and she thought it was a good deal. It didn't cost her anything out of pocket and her payment stayed exactly the same.
I pointed out that she in essence just rented her last car for the past year. She didn't see why that was a bad thing. She felt it was totally normal and okay to always have a car payment. With that in mind, I didn't see any way to talk her out of doing this again next year.
There's no point. I've tried it with people whose 5-year lease contract ends and they "get" to pick out a new car. They talk about it like it's a gift from Father Christmas instead of a big purchase with their own money.
My uncle's second wife wanted a new car every three years. It finally got to the point where they decided it was better (or the dealership could no longer roll enough negative equity into the deal) that they should just lease her cars.
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Tales from the federal contracting workplace:
1. A few weeks ago, I was talking with GovtGuy1 about cars and exercise. In a response to one of his questions, I mentioned I purchased my wife a 2019 Honda Insight (bought new, cash, as we keep our cars until they die).
Last Friday, in the breakroom, GovtGuy2, who must have overheard the chat with Guy1, asked if my wife liked her car, and how much was the monthly payment.
Me: the wife loves it, and there's no payments.
Guy2: what? how?
Me: Bought in cash
Guy2: Oh, you contractors make a lot of money
Me: We didn't have car payments for 13 years. (And in my head: yes, we get paid well because we do the actual technical work, that you guys can't learn and apply.)
Guy2: walks away... from the water/ice dispenser
2. Went for lunch with a high-ranking govt guy (GovtGuy3),another contractor (C1), and my co-worker (CW, fellow saver, investor, etc). GovtGuy3 talks about how he bought his wife a uber luxury SUV, she didn't drive it much as it was too big, so he bought her a smaller, imported luxury SUV. I was wondering how much he paid, when he mentioned the actual price and the payments. CW and I gave each other that look of "Oh... duh!" Guy3 frequently takes short-term overseas assignments to get the extra money to blow on "luxuries".
Then C1 talks about buying a top-of-the line, fully-loaded Toyota Highlander for his wife. He says he has 4 kids, he wanted a boy, so they got "lucky" on the 4th. CW and I look at each other, later on talk about the college-funding C1 will be doing, unless his kids join Uncle Sam's Military.
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Office mate at work traded her car in for the exact same model, just another year. No reason other than the dealership offered it to her and she thought it was a good deal. It didn't cost her anything out of pocket and her payment stayed exactly the same.
I pointed out that she in essence just rented her last car for the past year. She didn't see why that was a bad thing. She felt it was totally normal and okay to always have a car payment. With that in mind, I didn't see any way to talk her out of doing this again next year.
I've heard similar talk from a few coworkers before. One thing that seems to come out is that while their payments stayed the same the duration of the loan is much longer. Super frustrating as they act like they received a free upgrade not recognizing that the longer loan equals more money spent...
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Office mate at work traded her car in for the exact same model, just another year. No reason other than the dealership offered it to her and she thought it was a good deal. It didn't cost her anything out of pocket and her payment stayed exactly the same.
I pointed out that she in essence just rented her last car for the past year. She didn't see why that was a bad thing. She felt it was totally normal and okay to always have a car payment. With that in mind, I didn't see any way to talk her out of doing this again next year.
I've heard similar talk from a few coworkers before. One thing that seems to come out is that while their payments stayed the same the duration of the loan is much longer. Super frustrating as they act like they received a free upgrade not recognizing that the longer loan equals more money spent...
The dealerships know this. I bought a car in 2014. Starting right at the 2 year mark, I'd get letters in the mail from the "sales manager" at the dealership I bought it from telling me that he has someone who desperately wants to buy my car. No shit. My car is awesome. That's why I had your dealership have it shipped in for me. But it's a form letter hoping to get people in to upgrade their cars. Apparently, people actually fall for it.
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The dealerships know this. I bought a car in 2014. Starting right at the 2 year mark, I'd get letters in the mail from the "sales manager" at the dealership I bought it from telling me that he has someone who desperately wants to buy my car. No shit. My car is awesome. That's why I had your dealership have it shipped in for me. But it's a form letter hoping to get people in to upgrade their cars. Apparently, people actually fall for it.
We received the same starting at year 2. Then they ramped it up by year 3 - we've been invited to several "special" buying events in the past few months
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The dealerships know this. I bought a car in 2014. Starting right at the 2 year mark, I'd get letters in the mail from the "sales manager" at the dealership I bought it from telling me that he has someone who desperately wants to buy my car. No shit. My car is awesome. That's why I had your dealership have it shipped in for me. But it's a form letter hoping to get people in to upgrade their cars. Apparently, people actually fall for it.
We received the same starting at year 2. Then they ramped it up by year 3 - we've been invited to several "special" buying events in the past few months
Same experience. It stops by year 7 though... apparently the perfectly reliable and well-maintained and efficient car isnt quite as valued/resaleable by that point.
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The dealerships know this. I bought a car in 2014. Starting right at the 2 year mark, I'd get letters in the mail from the "sales manager" at the dealership I bought it from telling me that he has someone who desperately wants to buy my car. No shit. My car is awesome. That's why I had your dealership have it shipped in for me. But it's a form letter hoping to get people in to upgrade their cars. Apparently, people actually fall for it.
We received the same starting at year 2. Then they ramped it up by year 3 - we've been invited to several "special" buying events in the past few months
Same experience. It stops by year 7 though... apparently the perfectly reliable and well-maintained and efficient car isnt quite as valued/resaleable by that point.
Having it totaled in a wreck is somewhat effective too.
They weren't really pleased when I told them I wasn't interested in a new one and asked if they knew of any available that were just like mine. I was more or less told that I was on my own finding that unicorn and to come back and talk to them if I changed my mind about a new one. I now drive a vehicle so similar to the old one that most people don't realize it's not the same one. Thanks Carmax.
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This is why Apple introduces the iPhone purchase plan. I know people who pay monthly and “get” the new iPhone when it comes out every year. Act as if it’s a miracle from saint jobs
UHH.... the ecological and human footprint of that. It may be less than a car, but it feels even more hard. A phone every year. A phone. Every year.
The dealerships know this. I bought a car in 2014. Starting right at the 2 year mark, I'd get letters in the mail from the "sales manager" at the dealership I bought it from telling me that he has someone who desperately wants to buy my car. No shit. My car is awesome. That's why I had your dealership have it shipped in for me. But it's a form letter hoping to get people in to upgrade their cars. Apparently, people actually fall for it.
We received the same starting at year 2. Then they ramped it up by year 3 - we've been invited to several "special" buying events in the past few months
[/quote]
I so wish there were the equivalent of the old "I get paid of you call me" phone contract for mail boxes.
Every time an ad flies in, you get 10 cents from them.
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Office mate at work traded her car in for the exact same model, just another year. No reason other than the dealership offered it to her and she thought it was a good deal. It didn't cost her anything out of pocket and her payment stayed exactly the same.
I pointed out that she in essence just rented her last car for the past year. She didn't see why that was a bad thing. She felt it was totally normal and okay to always have a car payment. With that in mind, I didn't see any way to talk her out of doing this again next year.
I've heard similar talk from a few coworkers before. One thing that seems to come out is that while their payments stayed the same the duration of the loan is much longer. Super frustrating as they act like they received a free upgrade not recognizing that the longer loan equals more money spent...
She definitely recognized that the payments would be extended another year, but it didn't seem to equate to more money. [psst, she's a financial analyst!]. She seems okay with the idea of paying a set amount every single month for as long as she drives.
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The dealerships know this. I bought a car in 2014. Starting right at the 2 year mark, I'd get letters in the mail from the "sales manager" at the dealership I bought it from telling me that he has someone who desperately wants to buy my car. No shit. My car is awesome. That's why I had your dealership have it shipped in for me. But it's a form letter hoping to get people in to upgrade their cars. Apparently, people actually fall for it.
We received the same starting at year 2. Then they ramped it up by year 3 - we've been invited to several "special" buying events in the past few months
Same experience. It stops by year 7 though... apparently the perfectly reliable and well-maintained and efficient car isnt quite as valued/resaleable by that point.
Exactly. In the beginning, we used to get a lot of commercials and letters about new cars. But now the car is 10 years old and I haven't seen them for some years.
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UHH.... the ecological and human footprint of that. It may be less than a car, but it feels even more hard. A phone every year. A phone. Every year.
Heh. I bought my current car 16.5 years ago for $4500. They're paying $1,000 per year for a new phone. The ecological footprint of their phones may be smaller than my car, but the economic footprint is certainly larger!
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In France I went once with a friend because it was the only place you could get a cup of coffee. Any cafe where you ordered a coffee would serve an espresso.
I thought the whole point of travelling was to experience how life is lived in other places.
Then again if one really wants filter coffees, most specialty coffee shops around the world seem to offer both espresso-based drinks and pourover.
Sure. But when you live there for a year sometimes you just want a damn coffee like at home.
I use a French Press everyday - home & office.
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Read on Intranet at work today:
"It is documented that going to our job is one of the most health increasing activities we do."
Many of us Mustachians experience that our jobs are in some aspects negative for our health and we want to stop working to lower stress levels.
But work probably provides a purpose and gives you something to do. It is our task to find more or less meaningful activities to fill our days with after FIRE.
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Hahahhaha
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The dealerships know this. I bought a car in 2014. Starting right at the 2 year mark, I'd get letters in the mail from the "sales manager" at the dealership I bought it from telling me that he has someone who desperately wants to buy my car. No shit. My car is awesome. That's why I had your dealership have it shipped in for me. But it's a form letter hoping to get people in to upgrade their cars. Apparently, people actually fall for it.
We received the same starting at year 2. Then they ramped it up by year 3 - we've been invited to several "special" buying events in the past few months
Same experience. It stops by year 7 though... apparently the perfectly reliable and well-maintained and efficient car isnt quite as valued/resaleable by that point.
Exactly. In the beginning, we used to get a lot of commercials and letters about new cars. But now the car is 10 years old and I haven't seen them for some years.
Don’t worry, that’s about when they start calling you to warn you that your extended warranty is about to expire and offer you a great deal on an extension!
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Read on Intranet at work today:
"It is documented that going to our job is one of the most health increasing activities we do."
Many of us Mustachians experience that our jobs are in some aspects negative for our health and we want to stop working to lower stress levels.
But work probably provides a purpose and gives you something to do. It is our task to find more or less meaningful activities to fill our days with after FIRE.
Can't find the article again now, but there was a story some time ago that most people who quit working by their own free will return to the workforce within 6 months. Mainly due to it not being as great as imagined plut the realization that it's less fun to have time off while all friends/family/whatever is at work most of the day.
Along the same lines there was a story in NY Times I read where they found that unemployed people look forward to the weekend almost as much as people working - this was also due to a lot of fun happens on weekends when more people have time to do it.
So retiring early probably at least requires a fairly solid plan on how to do stuff that feels meaningful. Not just having time off. A friend of mine had 3 months "holiday" when he was between jobs and he degenerated into something close to a zombie just staying at home in his morning robe most of the time.
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Read on Intranet at work today:
"It is documented that going to our job is one of the most health increasing activities we do."
Many of us Mustachians experience that our jobs are in some aspects negative for our health and we want to stop working to lower stress levels.
But work probably provides a purpose and gives you something to do. It is our task to find more or less meaningful activities to fill our days with after FIRE.
Can't find the article again now, but there was a story some time ago that most people who quit working by their own free will return to the workforce within 6 months. Mainly due to it not being as great as imagined plut the realization that it's less fun to have time off while all friends/family/whatever is at work most of the day.
Along the same lines there was a story in NY Times I read where they found that unemployed people look forward to the weekend almost as much as people working - this was also due to a lot of fun happens on weekends when more people have time to do it.
So retiring early probably at least requires a fairly solid plan on how to do stuff that feels meaningful. Not just having time off. A friend of mine had 3 months "holiday" when he was between jobs and he degenerated into something close to a zombie just staying at home in his morning robe most of the time.
For me, it might depend on the weather. I love skiing, hiking and being outside. But in some times of the year, it is a bit more depressing to be outside. Then you need to have something to do: social life, events, indoor hobbies, or binge-watching TV shows.
We once took 3 months off during the summer. In that time we renovated the bathroom from scratch, including floor, walls and ceiling. That took 5 weeks in total. And we took lots of trips the rest of the time. My only concern there, was that we spent maybe a bit too much money on a trip to Italy. The rest was pretty cheap.
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The dealerships know this. I bought a car in 2014. Starting right at the 2 year mark, I'd get letters in the mail from the "sales manager" at the dealership I bought it from telling me that he has someone who desperately wants to buy my car. No shit. My car is awesome. That's why I had your dealership have it shipped in for me. But it's a form letter hoping to get people in to upgrade their cars. Apparently, people actually fall for it.
We received the same starting at year 2. Then they ramped it up by year 3 - we've been invited to several "special" buying events in the past few months
I've been getting these now - for our 2009 Civic. Apparently they really want us to upgrade...except all the ads we get are for 2019-20 Civics. When in reality, the only thing that would really tempt me is a minivan.
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Not at work but friends in a group text chat...A few months back, several texted about their generally "poor" financial status including one guy who I know makes much more than me. He went through a divorce recently and I thought that could be leading to some of his concerns. Today, someone else suggested getting out of the market for a month or two while impeachment concerns swirl. My divorced friend replied back that he pulled out of the stock market totally in November 2011 (Dow was 13K). Afraid if he gets in now, it will crash again.
I'm not sure how to reply. Think I'm going with a safe platitude such as time in the market is better than timing the market. I will probably see my friend in person in a month so may revisit then.
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The dealerships know this. I bought a car in 2014. Starting right at the 2 year mark, I'd get letters in the mail from the "sales manager" at the dealership I bought it from telling me that he has someone who desperately wants to buy my car. No shit. My car is awesome. That's why I had your dealership have it shipped in for me. But it's a form letter hoping to get people in to upgrade their cars. Apparently, people actually fall for it.
We received the same starting at year 2. Then they ramped it up by year 3 - we've been invited to several "special" buying events in the past few months
I've been getting these now - for our 2009 Civic. Apparently they really want us to upgrade...except all the ads we get are for 2019-20 Civics. When in reality, the only thing that would really tempt me is a minivan.
About 3 months after I bought my Nissan Juke I started getting mailings about how I should probably consider upgrading to a brand new PATHFINDER!! Because apparently my decision to get the smallest possible SUV 3 months ago is now totally irrelevant and I suddenly want to drive a giant albatross.
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The dealerships know this. I bought a car in 2014. Starting right at the 2 year mark, I'd get letters in the mail from the "sales manager" at the dealership I bought it from telling me that he has someone who desperately wants to buy my car. No shit. My car is awesome. That's why I had your dealership have it shipped in for me. But it's a form letter hoping to get people in to upgrade their cars. Apparently, people actually fall for it.
We received the same starting at year 2. Then they ramped it up by year 3 - we've been invited to several "special" buying events in the past few months
I've been getting these now - for our 2009 Civic. Apparently they really want us to upgrade...except all the ads we get are for 2019-20 Civics. When in reality, the only thing that would really tempt me is a minivan.
About 3 months after I bought my Nissan Juke I started getting mailings about how I should probably consider upgrading to a brand new PATHFINDER!! Because apparently my decision to get the smallest possible SUV 3 months ago is now totally irrelevant and I suddenly want to drive a giant albatross.
Of course, that makes a lot of sense. 3 months is long enough to get buyer's regret, because your brand new car is still the smallest on the parking lot. Time to trade it in for a real car.
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Because naturally women will be judging you based on the size of the parking space you fill up.
Hah
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Because naturally women will be judging you based on the size of the parking space you fill up.
Hah
Well... if there's any truth to the saying that consumer-sukka women dress to impress other women, maybe consumer-sukka men buy cars to impress other men.
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Because naturally women will be judging you based on the size of the parking space you fill up.
Hah
Well... if there's any truth to the saying that consumer-sukka women dress to impress other women, maybe consumer-sukka men buy cars to impress other men.
I know my male coworkers definitely try to impress each other by having big cars. And women who drive big 'masculine' cars are respected way more than women who drive small 'feminine' cars. Size definitely matters more than price tag.
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Because naturally women will be judging you based on the size of the parking space you fill up.
Hah
I mean, I do...
But in reverse.
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Because naturally women will be judging you based on the size of the parking space you fill up.
Hah
I mean, I do...
But in reverse.
Yes! “Little penis trucks” as my friend dubbed the huge hick trucks of some of our high school classmates
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Saw the new Ford Ranger for the first time yesterday. Mentioned I liked it better than the big trucks. Friend looked at me like I broke some rule of manliness. I won't mention to him then that I also like the Honda Ridgeline. And that is barely a truck by some people's measure. Am not in the market for a truck at any size though. I get by fine with a little utility trailer.
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Because naturally women will be judging you based on the size of the parking space you fill up.
Hah
I mean, I do...
But in reverse.
me too. Especially the big shiny pick up trucks that are used for commuting. Compensating for - something.
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Because naturally women will be judging you based on the size of the parking space you fill up.
Hah
I mean, I do...
But in reverse.
Me too, and not solely because I cannot fucking see to back out of a parking lot if a big truck/SUV parks next to me.
BTW, I drive the "big" car. The 06 Matrix.
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Coworker 1 this week the day after corporate announcement that our pension plan was frozen (not for me as it has been closed to new hires for 7 years). "I upped my 401k 1% to make up for it", with it being the frozen pension. This was also immediately after Coworker1 had a discussion with Coworker2 who said both he and his wife were, and had been, maxing their 401k's for years. CW1 said "I don't know how you can do that". Granted, CW2 almost certainly makes about 20% more than CW1, but we're all paid low (very low) six figures. And there is a 50% 401k match. I just kept drinking my free coffee.
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Because naturally women will be judging you based on the size of the parking space you fill up.
Hah
I worked with a guy once who was a total kiss-ass and was too insecure to have opinions of his own (basically every sentence started with "Well boss says" or "Well senior engineer says") Once I mentioned to him that I thought he could be more assertive in asking for resources for his unit. He replied "Yeah I can tell the guys don't respect me because I drive a Jeep".
I blinked slowly a few times and mumbled something about how I think that wasn't the issue. He showed up about a month later with a new Ford pickup, leather seats and all. I said nothing, especially when he said "Pretty sweet huh!"
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Poor guy. Compensation vehicles look that much worse on someone with low self esteem
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Coworker 1 this week the day after corporate announcement that our pension plan was frozen (not for me as it has been closed to new hires for 7 years). "I upped my 401k 1% to make up for it", with it being the frozen pension. This was also immediately after Coworker1 had a discussion with Coworker2 who said both he and his wife were, and had been, maxing their 401k's for years. CW1 said "I don't know how you can do that". Granted, CW2 almost certainly makes about 20% more than CW1, but we're all paid low (very low) six figures. And there is a 50% 401k match. I just kept drinking my free coffee.
50% all the way to the max?
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Saw the new Ford Ranger for the first time yesterday. Mentioned I liked it better than the big trucks. Friend looked at me like I broke some rule of manliness. I won't mention to him then that I also like the Honda Ridgeline. And that is barely a truck by some people's measure. Am not in the market for a truck at any size though. I get by fine with a little utility trailer.
I recently purchased a used Gen 1 Ridgeline and love it! Can pull a trailer with my lawn equipment and I can fill up the bed with mulch or limbs if needed. Has really helped me take on a few more lawns for extra money. Also just took the my boy out for a camp out last weekend and the trunk in the bed of the truck sure came in handy when it was pouring down rain. Tent and all supplies were still dry. They may look goofy to some people, but so far I have gotten a decent amount of use out of it.
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Coworker 1 this week the day after corporate announcement that our pension plan was frozen (not for me as it has been closed to new hires for 7 years). "I upped my 401k 1% to make up for it", with it being the frozen pension. This was also immediately after Coworker1 had a discussion with Coworker2 who said both he and his wife were, and had been, maxing their 401k's for years. CW1 said "I don't know how you can do that". Granted, CW2 almost certainly makes about 20% more than CW1, but we're all paid low (very low) six figures. And there is a 50% 401k match. I just kept drinking my free coffee.
50% all the way to the max?
Inquiring minds want to know...
If it is so, I think I speak for most of us when I say "Da-amn, nice gig you got there".
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Coworker 1 this week the day after corporate announcement that our pension plan was frozen (not for me as it has been closed to new hires for 7 years). "I upped my 401k 1% to make up for it", with it being the frozen pension. This was also immediately after Coworker1 had a discussion with Coworker2 who said both he and his wife were, and had been, maxing their 401k's for years. CW1 said "I don't know how you can do that". Granted, CW2 almost certainly makes about 20% more than CW1, but we're all paid low (very low) six figures. And there is a 50% 401k match. I just kept drinking my free coffee.
50% all the way to the max?
Inquiring minds want to know...
If it is so, I think I speak for most of us when I say "Da-amn, nice gig you got there".
I wish it was up to the max. It's 50% up to 8%, with a 3% company contribution whether you save anything or not. I'm also stuck in highly compensated employee limbo as I don't make enough to max it out with the cap on my % of contributions, and too much to contribute whatever % will max it out. It was a good news, bad news, kind of raise.
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The HCE thing is a disappointment. I was stuck there at my old company. No more at my current one! And our match is 50% up to the full $19k. And the plan is at vanguard and offers auto Roth conversions for mega backdoor Roth.
I am totally in love with my current 401k plan.
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"Why would we wash dishes when we can just use paper plates from Costco, amiright?"
No. No that is not right.
ETA: This was in reference to regular home use
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"Why would we wash dishes when we can just use paper plates from Costco, amiright?"
No. No that is not right.
ETA: This was in reference to regular home use
FWIW, I have some relatives that have actually done the math of paper vs reusable plates, and it's not as clear-cut as you might immediately think. When you consider the acquisition cost, the cost of water, electricity, detergent, and the time spent washing and putting away dishes, the gap narrows considerably.
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"Why would we wash dishes when we can just use paper plates from Costco, amiright?"
No. No that is not right.
ETA: This was in reference to regular home use
FWIW, I have some relatives that have actually done the math of paper vs reusable plates, and it's not as clear-cut as you might immediately think. When you consider the acquisition cost, the cost of water, electricity, detergent, and the time spent washing and putting away dishes, the gap narrows considerably.
They already have real plates, just use them less.
Personally I don't think adding up tasks that take <1 minute* and applying an hourly cost to them is proper accounting. I know some people disagree but my opinion is that avoiding those small tasks doesn't really free up time in your day, it's just less work.
And most importantly my concern is more environmental than financial.
*this is just plates for 2 people. They still wash pots/pans, cups, utensils...
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"Why would we wash dishes when we can just use paper plates from Costco, amiright?"
No. No that is not right.
ETA: This was in reference to regular home use
FWIW, I have some relatives that have actually done the math of paper vs reusable plates, and it's not as clear-cut as you might immediately think. When you consider the acquisition cost, the cost of water, electricity, detergent, and the time spent washing and putting away dishes, the gap narrows considerably.
They already have real plates, just use them less.
Personally I don't think adding up tasks that take <1 minute* and applying an hourly cost to them is proper accounting. I know some people disagree but my opinion is that avoiding those small tasks doesn't really free up time in your day, it's just less work.
And most importantly my concern is more environmental than financial.
*this is just plates for 2 people. They still wash pots/pans, cups, utensils...
The practical cost of washing plates and utensils goes way down when you have to wash the preparation tools too. No extra soap is required unless you've got enough guests to justify an extra sink full of soapy water. But there is an economy of scale when you have large numbers of guests and several courses of food. One thing about paper plates is that they do scale well for large numbers of guests. I've been known to use them for open houses and informal events like barbecues simply because I refuse to own, house, and maintain that number of dishes or utensils.
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Your profile link www.theliveinlandlord.com goes to the Baidu search engine?
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The HCE thing is a disappointment. I was stuck there at my old company. No more at my current one! And our match is 50% up to the full $19k. And the plan is at vanguard and offers auto Roth conversions for mega backdoor Roth.
I am totally in love with my current 401k plan.
Sigh. I worried about HCE, knowing that it takes effect for the year after you earn that amount. So I expected to be limited in my contributions this year, as my income was exactly at the HCE limit for last year (20 cents over).
But they've said nothing? And this year's limit is higher, and eff it I need to get a new job because I should be FAR above the HCE limit.
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"Why would we wash dishes when we can just use paper plates from Costco, amiright?"
No. No that is not right.
ETA: This was in reference to regular home use
FWIW, I have some relatives that have actually done the math of paper vs reusable plates, and it's not as clear-cut as you might immediately think. When you consider the acquisition cost, the cost of water, electricity, detergent, and the time spent washing and putting away dishes, the gap narrows considerably.
They already have real plates, just use them less.
Personally I don't think adding up tasks that take <1 minute* and applying an hourly cost to them is proper accounting. I know some people disagree but my opinion is that avoiding those small tasks doesn't really free up time in your day, it's just less work.
And most importantly my concern is more environmental than financial.
*this is just plates for 2 people. They still wash pots/pans, cups, utensils...
The practical cost of washing plates and utensils goes way down when you have to wash the preparation tools too. No extra soap is required unless you've got enough guests to justify an extra sink full of soapy water. But there is an economy of scale when you have large numbers of guests and several courses of food. One thing about paper plates is that they do scale well for large numbers of guests. I've been known to use them for open houses and informal events like barbecues simply because I refuse to own, house, and maintain that number of dishes or utensils.
I only use disposable aluminum cooking vessels and paper cooking utensils. My favorite are the paper tongs!
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"Why would we wash dishes when we can just use paper plates from Costco, amiright?"
No. No that is not right.
ETA: This was in reference to regular home use
FWIW, I have some relatives that have actually done the math of paper vs reusable plates, and it's not as clear-cut as you might immediately think. When you consider the acquisition cost, the cost of water, electricity, detergent, and the time spent washing and putting away dishes, the gap narrows considerably.
They already have real plates, just use them less.
Personally I don't think adding up tasks that take <1 minute* and applying an hourly cost to them is proper accounting. I know some people disagree but my opinion is that avoiding those small tasks doesn't really free up time in your day, it's just less work.
And most importantly my concern is more environmental than financial.
*this is just plates for 2 people. They still wash pots/pans, cups, utensils...
The practical cost of washing plates and utensils goes way down when you have to wash the preparation tools too. No extra soap is required unless you've got enough guests to justify an extra sink full of soapy water. But there is an economy of scale when you have large numbers of guests and several courses of food. One thing about paper plates is that they do scale well for large numbers of guests. I've been known to use them for open houses and informal events like barbecues simply because I refuse to own, house, and maintain that number of dishes or utensils.
I only use disposable aluminum cooking vessels and paper cooking utensils. My favorite are the paper tongs!
But what do you do when you spill something on the counter? Maybe use a drop cloth in the kitchen to be safe. Wouldn't want to have to clean anything.
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Counter? You mean the cardboard boxes I have arranged around the kitchen?
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Counter? You mean the cardboard boxes I have arranged around the kitchen?
Or you just cover the countertops with aluminum foil, so you can ball it up and throw it away after instead of wiping down, right?
Note: I’ve actually heard of a family that used to do this
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Counter? You mean the cardboard boxes I have arranged around the kitchen?
Or you just cover the countertops with aluminum foil, so you can ball it up and throw it away after instead of wiping down, right?
Note: I’ve actually heard of a family that used to do this
Sounds like the environmentally friendly approach. You can recycle aluminum but you can't recycle used sponges.
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Don’t you have to clean the aluminum foil before it can be recycled?
Haha, back to square one!
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Counter? You mean the cardboard boxes I have arranged around the kitchen?
Or you just cover the countertops with aluminum foil, so you can ball it up and throw it away after instead of wiping down, right?
Note: I’ve actually heard of a family that used to do this
Sounds like the environmentally friendly approach. You can recycle aluminum but you can't recycle used sponges.
Yeah. You can recycle it. But when you do it and where you do it and whence you do it - you will use up so much coal-produced electricity...
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Counter? You mean the cardboard boxes I have arranged around the kitchen?
Or you just cover the countertops with aluminum foil, so you can ball it up and throw it away after instead of wiping down, right?
Note: I’ve actually heard of a family that used to do this
Sounds like the environmentally friendly approach. You can recycle aluminum but you can't recycle used sponges.
Yeah. You can recycle it. But when you do it and where you do it and whence you do it - you will use up so much coal-produced electricity...
Ah yes, beautiful clean coal. Feels so good in my lungs.
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Along the same lines there was a story in NY Times I read where they found that unemployed people look forward to the weekend almost as much as people working - this was also due to a lot of fun happens on weekends when more people have time to do it.
My retired friends typically have an active dislike for the weekend. Stores, parks, library, etc are all too crowded.
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Your profile link www.theliveinlandlord.com goes to the Baidu search engine?
Oops, I forgot to update my profile. I let the blog site go because it wasn't profitable enough to justify my time.
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Coworker 1 this week the day after corporate announcement that our pension plan was frozen (not for me as it has been closed to new hires for 7 years). "I upped my 401k 1% to make up for it", with it being the frozen pension. This was also immediately after Coworker1 had a discussion with Coworker2 who said both he and his wife were, and had been, maxing their 401k's for years. CW1 said "I don't know how you can do that". Granted, CW2 almost certainly makes about 20% more than CW1, but we're all paid low (very low) six figures. And there is a 50% 401k match. I just kept drinking my free coffee.
I don't understand any part of this story.
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The HCE thing is a disappointment. I was stuck there at my old company. No more at my current one! And our match is 50% up to the full $19k. And the plan is at vanguard and offers auto Roth conversions for mega backdoor Roth.
I am totally in love with my current 401k plan.
Man I would be too. I don't often experience jealousy, feeling it here
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Along the same lines there was a story in NY Times I read where they found that unemployed people look forward to the weekend almost as much as people working - this was also due to a lot of fun happens on weekends when more people have time to do it.
My retired friends typically have an active dislike for the weekend. Stores, parks, library, etc are all too crowded.
I already notice a dislike for visiting crowded areas in the weekend, now that I don't work on Fridays.
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Because naturally women will be judging you based on the size of the parking space you fill up.
Hah
Well... if there's any truth to the saying that consumer-sukka women dress to impress other women, maybe consumer-sukka men buy cars to impress other men.
D**k measuring contest. The supreme irony is the pickup truck is supposed to show you are "a hard workin' man" with a rough and tumble go-anywhere life. Yet mostly the truck fills up corporate office parking lots. I think a lot of men feel emasculated working white-collar so they buy the vehicle of the blue-collar/rancher/farmer/contractor.
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Along the same lines there was a story in NY Times I read where they found that unemployed people look forward to the weekend almost as much as people working - this was also due to a lot of fun happens on weekends when more people have time to do it.
My retired friends typically have an active dislike for the weekend. Stores, parks, library, etc are all too crowded.
I already notice a dislike for visiting crowded areas in the weekend, now that I don't work on Fridays.
I'd happily go to Costco for a hamburger today... as long as it's Tuesday morning.
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Because naturally women will be judging you based on the size of the parking space you fill up.
Hah
Well... if there's any truth to the saying that consumer-sukka women dress to impress other women, maybe consumer-sukka men buy cars to impress other men.
D**k measuring contest. The supreme irony is the pickup truck is supposed to show you are "a hard workin' man" with a rough and tumble go-anywhere life. Yet mostly the truck fills up corporate office parking lots. I think a lot of men feel emasculated working white-collar so they buy the vehicle of the blue-collar/rancher/farmer/contractor.
A minimalist-clean-freak-yet-consumerist friend of mine has told me that he wants his next car (he leases) to be a $70,000 pickup truck. He works in an office all day, no calluses on his hands. He wants the pickup because he can "throw the kids' dirty sports things in the back in the covered bed and not stink up the SUV after a game." He has one child, age 3, no sports teams.
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Because naturally women will be judging you based on the size of the parking space you fill up.
Hah
Well... if there's any truth to the saying that consumer-sukka women dress to impress other women, maybe consumer-sukka men buy cars to impress other men.
D**k measuring contest. The supreme irony is the pickup truck is supposed to show you are "a hard workin' man" with a rough and tumble go-anywhere life. Yet mostly the truck fills up corporate office parking lots. I think a lot of men feel emasculated working white-collar so they buy the vehicle of the blue-collar/rancher/farmer/contractor.
A minimalist-clean-freak-yet-consumerist friend of mine has told me that he wants his next car (he leases) to be a $70,000 pickup truck. He works in an office all day, no calluses on his hands. He wants the pickup because he can "throw the kids' dirty sports things in the back in the covered bed and not stink up the SUV after a game." He has one child, age 3, no sports teams.
Wow. I've seen people reach for justifications of their vehicle choice but that's on a different level.
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This is just a friend not a coworker but a lady I've known for 10 years keeps saying "we should all go to [expensive resort hotel next county over] again together!" Or "we should all rent a house with a pool in [fancy resort town] for a couple weeks and go hang out." Aside from the fact that everyone is working and raising children and we don't really have the bandwidth for this I think this woman is in grave financial trouble and just can't admit that to herself.
This woman has been downwardly mobile since I've known her. She was laid off from a big corporate job a couple years after I met her and has probably not been continuously employed for more than a year since. There have been *a lot* of "layoffs" and "downsizings" and "position eliminated" and "crazy boss" situations but I think it adds up to *she* is unstable and unreliable and perpetually late and is generally always flying around like a chicken with her head cut off and people just terminate the relationship sooner rather than later.
She is now earning (when she is employed) at the poverty level at best. She lives in a modest home in a very expensive section of town. She was living off a settlement for a while, and then credit cards. She has complained about property taxes being a huge financial burden. She is a single mom and has a medically fragile child. I'm pretty sure she lives in a hoarder house based on her stated struggles with "decluttering" but I'm not sure since we've never been invited over. She is very overweight--once broke a chair at a gathering, can't sit in middle chairs, chairs with arms, etc. She honestly seems ill and overwhelmed and even though her family and friends try to help out things are getting worse not better.
But she cannot seem to just take it down a notch and stop traveling, stop consuming, stop biting off more than she can chew and just pause and settle down and get her shit together.
So long story short this woman absolutely does not have the disposable income for a vacation but she's always the social recruiter and she's still trying to do this even though she needs to just help herself first.
I wish I knew how to help her but she's seemingly determined to prove she's fine and invulnerable and definitely not a rapidly collapsing mess.
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A minimalist-clean-freak-yet-consumerist friend of mine has told me that he wants his next car (he leases) to be a $70,000 pickup truck. He works in an office all day, no calluses on his hands. He wants the pickup because he can "throw the kids' dirty sports things in the back in the covered bed and not stink up the SUV after a game." He has one child, age 3, no sports teams.
A carrier rack cargo top is out of the question?
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Wow, Trashtalk, that's sad. Queen of denial, huh? As Dr. Phil says, you can't change what you don't acknowledge.
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This is just a friend not a coworker but a lady I've known for 10 years keeps saying "we should all go to [expensive resort hotel next county over] again together!" Or "we should all rent a house with a pool in [fancy resort town] for a couple weeks and go hang out." Aside from the fact that everyone is working and raising children and we don't really have the bandwidth for this I think this woman is in grave financial trouble and just can't admit that to herself.
This woman has been downwardly mobile since I've known her. She was laid off from a big corporate job a couple years after I met her and has probably not been continuously employed for more than a year since. There have been *a lot* of "layoffs" and "downsizings" and "position eliminated" and "crazy boss" situations but I think it adds up to *she* is unstable and unreliable and perpetually late and is generally always flying around like a chicken with her head cut off and people just terminate the relationship sooner rather than later.
She is now earning (when she is employed) at the poverty level at best. She lives in a modest home in a very expensive section of town. She was living off a settlement for a while, and then credit cards. She has complained about property taxes being a huge financial burden. She is a single mom and has a medically fragile child. I'm pretty sure she lives in a hoarder house based on her stated struggles with "decluttering" but I'm not sure since we've never been invited over. She is very overweight--once broke a chair at a gathering, can't sit in middle chairs, chairs with arms, etc. She honestly seems ill and overwhelmed and even though her family and friends try to help out things are getting worse not better.
But she cannot seem to just take it down a notch and stop traveling, stop consuming, stop biting off more than she can chew and just pause and settle down and get her shit together.
So long story short this woman absolutely does not have the disposable income for a vacation but she's always the social recruiter and she's still trying to do this even though she needs to just help herself first.
I wish I knew how to help her but she's seemingly determined to prove she's fine and invulnerable and definitely not a rapidly collapsing mess.
In the USA if the drug of choice is food or overspending/consumerism, you will likely receive a pat on the back for your addiction problems. But if the drug of choice happened to be cocaine (or similar), all family and friends would be trying to get her help/treatment (and rightfully so obviously).
It is sad that we've accepted that level of depravity as normal/ok in our society.
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A minimalist-clean-freak-yet-consumerist friend of mine has told me that he wants his next car (he leases) to be a $70,000 pickup truck. He works in an office all day, no calluses on his hands. He wants the pickup because he can "throw the kids' dirty sports things in the back in the covered bed and not stink up the SUV after a game." He has one child, age 3, no sports teams.
A carrier rack cargo top is out of the question?
It didn't come up, but I'm sure that would be deemed inconvenient.
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A minimalist-clean-freak-yet-consumerist friend of mine has told me that he wants his next car (he leases) to be a $70,000 pickup truck. He works in an office all day, no calluses on his hands. He wants the pickup because he can "throw the kids' dirty sports things in the back in the covered bed and not stink up the SUV after a game." He has one child, age 3, no sports teams.
If I'm spending near 6 figures on a vehicle, it's going to have 2 seats and a manual gearbox. Or helps produce revenue.
I can't even imagine... actually, if I had more than $15 million, I'd probably have a ridiculous range rover, so I can imagine...
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A work friend of mine - who is lovely - sends her children to private schools, even though she really can't afford it. She earns a slightly above average income, but her husband's been unemployed for a long time and has only just got a job. They've taken out a second mortgage to afford it, even though they're in the catchment area for a really well respected, high performing and sought after public school. Then she says that she struggles to afford the private school and is annoyed that people think that private school kids are privileged.
It's just weird to me. If you have to struggle to do it, and there's no REASON to do it, why are you doing it? I also think that some people struggle to just get food on the table and a roof over their heads, so I will reserve most of my sympathy for them, as opposed to (lovely but misguided) people who are basically living above their means.
Can't really say that, though. But when she says things like "Should I keep them in private school?", I say "You don't have to, the other school's a really good option."
People get very emotional about their kid's education. I've looked at private schools myself, and even though we can well afford it, I just don't want to go down that rabbit hole. What has helped me avoid that expense is a) my older one would not be accepted into most regular private schools because of his special needs and b) I've heard some not so nice things about extreme snobbiness from parents whose kids have attended private schools near us.
I can totally understand the draw though, especially since I work part time as an educational consultant. Especially when it's a place where your child is spending most of their waking hours five days a week. I haven't yet found a totally convincing argument against private education for friends who have this emotional want for it for their kids.
Back in the olden days before the internet, I was a Money Magazine addict. I remember reading an article to the same effect. Buying the more expensive house in the best public school district was a better return on investment than paying for private school. It made total sense to me. OTOH, I kinda know where you live. If those schools aren't top-notch, where the hell are they?
We live in a great school district but our neighborhood school will not allow my son to attend because of his special needs :( The district assigned him to a special class in a different school, which I didn't feel was beneficial for him. We fought hard for it, but stopped short of suing the district because I found a better solution. That's also why I was looking at private schools.
**I remember a while back in the Bay Area you could totally see the price disparity on real estate in different school districts. But as the market continued heating up, even houses in the not so good school districts started selling like hot cakes. Hell, even a burnt shack in a crappy district sold for over a million dollars. But you could see that over the years the public school test scores started going up too. My theory is that the parents spent so much money just to get a place to live that they no longer had any dough left for private school.**
Seeing similar changes in my SoCal neighborhood. I think this absolutely explains why the local school has dramatically improved in the "rankings" over the last five years. It corresponds very closely with the era when the houses in the area were suddenly $800k then $900k then over a million. Meanwhile the condos went from $250k to $400k and so on.
Young families that move here for the district and either don't seek or don't get into the fancy lottery-only immersion "magnet" default to the local school. There are few if any affordable K-12 parochial schools in the area and the local private schools are all *at least* $35k a year (not including extras expenses and fundraising). Even if locals could afford those schools outright, the available slots are often taken by kids from much wealthier neighborhoods in the area.
So the local "middle class" (LOL) returns to the public schools they might have bypassed 30 or 40 years ago, scores increase as kids from enriched environments enroll, and the virtuous or vicious cycle (depending on how you see things) increases in speed.
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A minimalist-clean-freak-yet-consumerist friend of mine has told me that he wants his next car (he leases) to be a $70,000 pickup truck. He works in an office all day, no calluses on his hands. He wants the pickup because he can "throw the kids' dirty sports things in the back in the covered bed and not stink up the SUV after a game." He has one child, age 3, no sports teams.
More cars than not are sold aspirationally. Sports cars make no sense when confined to traffic laden roads with speeds limits. 4-wheel drive SUV's make no sense in urban jungles (well, depending on pothole density in your area). Giant pickups for non-existent kids sports teams make no sense to the father of 3 year old.
Humans have dreams and fears, cars appeal to both. Buried in the back of folks heads is that they could be a street racer, so of course they need to add a wing on the back and cotter pin closures for their hoods. They might encounter a zombie apocalypse and need a lift kit and a winch on their pickup. In my youth I feel for buying a tow package for a new truck, which NEVER towed a damn thing for the life of the truck. So on and so forth.
Much of consumer sucka culture is about stoking those dreams and fears, then selling the merch to satiate the need.
Only in places like this forum are such spells lifted so that the shear insanity can be seen plain as day.
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This is not work but a family friend.
They recently came into a large windfall due to the sale of some rental property. They owe quite a bit of capital gains tax on it so are looking to doing a 1031, which is a decent idea. However, they apparently have a rich uncle who is a Harvard professor telling them that they should look into venture capital or private equity. These friends know next to nothing about investing, and are generally not great with money, so the wife asked me what I thought.
I honestly don't know what to say. I hate to give other people money advice, but I know that this represents the vast majority of their net worth. I just... well I don't know if I should say what I think or keep my mouth shut.
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This is not work but a family friend.
They recently came into a large windfall due to the sale of some rental property. They owe quite a bit of capital gains tax on it so are looking to doing a 1031, which is a decent idea. However, they apparently have a rich uncle who is a Harvard professor telling them that they should look into venture capital or private equity. These friends know next to nothing about investing, and are generally not great with money, so the wife asked me what I thought.
I honestly don't know what to say. I hate to give other people money advice, but I know that this represents the vast majority of their net worth. I just... well I don't know if I should say what I think or keep my mouth shut.
You should not advice people to put all their assets in the stock market. I think the general rule would be to only invest money in the stock market that you are comfortable loosing, or plummeting with 80% for a period.
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This is not work but a family friend.
They recently came into a large windfall due to the sale of some rental property. They owe quite a bit of capital gains tax on it so are looking to doing a 1031, which is a decent idea. However, they apparently have a rich uncle who is a Harvard professor telling them that they should look into venture capital or private equity. These friends know next to nothing about investing, and are generally not great with money, so the wife asked me what I thought.
I honestly don't know what to say. I hate to give other people money advice, but I know that this represents the vast majority of their net worth. I just... well I don't know if I should say what I think or keep my mouth shut.
You should not advice people to put all their assets in the stock market. I think the general rule would be to only invest money in the stock market that you are comfortable loosing, or plummeting with 80% for a period.
Oh, of course not. I thought their original idea of doing a 1031 was fine, since real estate is an area that they are familiar with and somewhat knowledgeable about. However, they seem to be giving serious thought to the "venture capital and private equity" advice of this uncle because he's "rich and very conservative." I want to tell my friend this is a very scary area especially if you don't know anything about investing, but I don't generally give advice to people about their money.
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A minimalist-clean-freak-yet-consumerist friend of mine has told me that he wants his next car (he leases) to be a $70,000 pickup truck. He works in an office all day, no calluses on his hands. He wants the pickup because he can "throw the kids' dirty sports things in the back in the covered bed and not stink up the SUV after a game." He has one child, age 3, no sports teams.
A carrier rack cargo top is out of the question?
1. toss is in the hatchback like the rest of us.
2. little kids' equipment doesn't stink too bad until they hit puberty so this guy will have used up his truck (and likely one more, given his non-MMM), before needing to keep any stink out.
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This is not work but a family friend.
They recently came into a large windfall due to the sale of some rental property. They owe quite a bit of capital gains tax on it so are looking to doing a 1031, which is a decent idea. However, they apparently have a rich uncle who is a Harvard professor telling them that they should look into venture capital or private equity. These friends know next to nothing about investing, and are generally not great with money, so the wife asked me what I thought.
I honestly don't know what to say. I hate to give other people money advice, but I know that this represents the vast majority of their net worth. I just... well I don't know if I should say what I think or keep my mouth shut.
You should not advice people to put all their assets in the stock market. I think the general rule would be to only invest money in the stock market that you are comfortable loosing, or plummeting with 80% for a period.
Oh, of course not. I thought their original idea of doing a 1031 was fine, since real estate is an area that they are familiar with and somewhat knowledgeable about. However, they seem to be giving serious thought to the "venture capital and private equity" advice of this uncle because he's "rich and very conservative." I want to tell my friend this is a very scary area especially if you don't know anything about investing, but I don't generally give advice to people about their money.
If this is a friend, then I think it's appropriate to tell them that this seems like a bad idea to you and they should do a LOT more research, independently of the "rich and conservative uncle", before they decide to go down that path.
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This is not work but a family friend.
They recently came into a large windfall due to the sale of some rental property. They owe quite a bit of capital gains tax on it so are looking to doing a 1031, which is a decent idea. However, they apparently have a rich uncle who is a Harvard professor telling them that they should look into venture capital or private equity. These friends know next to nothing about investing, and are generally not great with money, so the wife asked me what I thought.
I honestly don't know what to say. I hate to give other people money advice, but I know that this represents the vast majority of their net worth. I just... well I don't know if I should say what I think or keep my mouth shut.
You should not advice people to put all their assets in the stock market. I think the general rule would be to only invest money in the stock market that you are comfortable loosing, or plummeting with 80% for a period.
Oh, of course not. I thought their original idea of doing a 1031 was fine, since real estate is an area that they are familiar with and somewhat knowledgeable about. However, they seem to be giving serious thought to the "venture capital and private equity" advice of this uncle because he's "rich and very conservative." I want to tell my friend this is a very scary area especially if you don't know anything about investing, but I don't generally give advice to people about their money.
If this is a friend, then I think it's appropriate to tell them that this seems like a bad idea to you and they should do a LOT more research, independently of the "rich and conservative uncle", before they decide to go down that path.
I sometimes get asked to but don't want to give specific financial advice (because of the business I run) but I'm happy to give out a few rules of thumb - do your research, don't take risks that you don't feel comfortable with, don't invest money you can't afford to lose, don't do anything you don't fully understand. Those rules are extremely obvious to us but not to everyone, and they won't do any harm.
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I sometimes get asked to but don't want to give specific financial advice (because of the business I run) but I'm happy to give out a few rules of thumb - do your research, don't take risks that you don't feel comfortable with, don't invest money you can't afford to lose, don't do anything you don't fully understand. Those rules are extremely obvious to us but not to everyone, and they won't do any harm.
Thanks, this is awesome, I'm going to borrow it.
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I sometimes get asked to but don't want to give specific financial advice (because of the business I run) but I'm happy to give out a few rules of thumb - do your research, don't take risks that you don't feel comfortable with, don't invest money you can't afford to lose, don't do anything you don't fully understand. Those rules are extremely obvious to us but not to everyone, and they won't do any harm.
The part I've bolded above is definitely a double-edged sword. I know plenty of people who have invested in short-term cash accounts only because of this and run out of money in retirement as a result.
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Along the same lines there was a story in NY Times I read where they found that unemployed people look forward to the weekend almost as much as people working - this was also due to a lot of fun happens on weekends when more people have time to do it.
My retired friends typically have an active dislike for the weekend. Stores, parks, library, etc are all too crowded.
I already notice a dislike for visiting crowded areas in the weekend, now that I don't work on Fridays.
I acquired that feeling just from living in a smallish town.
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A minimalist-clean-freak-yet-consumerist friend of mine has told me that he wants his next car (he leases) to be a $70,000 pickup truck. He works in an office all day, no calluses on his hands. He wants the pickup because he can "throw the kids' dirty sports things in the back in the covered bed and not stink up the SUV after a game." He has one child, age 3, no sports teams.
What do you bet that he flips out the first time that $70K truck gets scratched? A $5K minivan sounds like the better option. Put a hitch cargo platform on the back for the really stinky gear.
License plate seen on a Range Rover recently: "4thedog". Was worth a good chuckle. That happened to be what I was doing at that moment. Returning home after a vet trip.
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I sometimes get asked to but don't want to give specific financial advice (because of the business I run) but I'm happy to give out a few rules of thumb - do your research, don't take risks that you don't feel comfortable with, don't invest money you can't afford to lose, don't do anything you don't fully understand. Those rules are extremely obvious to us but not to everyone, and they won't do any harm.
The part I've bolded above is definitely a double-edged sword. I know plenty of people who have invested in short-term cash accounts only because of this and run out of money in retirement as a result.
Might be better to say don't speculate with money you can't afford to lose? Of course, then you get into what's considered "speculation."
Frankly considering how conservative my DH is, if we only invested money we didn't want to lose, we'd be almost entirely in cash and never be able to FIRE.
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I sometimes get asked to but don't want to give specific financial advice (because of the business I run) but I'm happy to give out a few rules of thumb - do your research, don't take risks that you don't feel comfortable with, don't invest money you can't afford to lose, don't do anything you don't fully understand. Those rules are extremely obvious to us but not to everyone, and they won't do any harm.
The part I've bolded above is definitely a double-edged sword. I know plenty of people who have invested in short-term cash accounts only because of this and run out of money in retirement as a result.
Might be better to say don't speculate with money you can't afford to lose? Of course, then you get into what's considered "speculation."
Frankly considering how conservative my DH is, if we only invested money we didn't want to lose, we'd be almost entirely in cash and never be able to FIRE.
I guess this isn't a perfect rule of thumb for mustachians as we tend to overthink these things: what's the difference between investing and speculating? What exactly is money you can't afford to lose?
The customer who most recently asked for financial advice was planning to put literally every single penny they had (a sum in the low 4 figures) in the stock market, through a so-called advisor. Some people literally need to be told they shouldn't buy stocks with the money they need to pay rent with in 3 weeks. The same goes for not taking risks you don't feel comfortable with - that doesn't mean putting all your money in a savings account is the best idea, but no amount of money is worth losing sleep over, and on the other side of the spectrum, if your gut tells you something is too good to be true, don't get sucked into something. Someone I know borrowed 30k to invest in some sort of pyramid scheme. So basically the level of financial stupidity I deal with can get quite high.
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Was discussing kids with a coworker. He said he and his wife give their 15 year old son $50 a week for lunch. This is a good lesson for him because he has to keep it at $10 a day or less. This is $200 a month on lunches....which doesn't include weekend lunches...for one child. They will do the same for their daughter when she enters high school next year. This same gentleman has not put any money in his 401(k) for years (3% match) because he can't bear to see the size of his take home pay reduced. This man and his wife make close to $200k a year.
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Was discussing kids with a coworker. He said he and his wife give their 15 year old son $50 a week for lunch. This is a good lesson for him because he has to keep it at $10 a day or less. This is $200 a month on lunches....which doesn't include weekend lunches...for one child. They will do the same for their daughter when she enters high school next year. This same gentleman has not put any money in his 401(k) for years (3% match) because he can't bear to see the size of his take home pay reduced. This man and his wife make close to $200k a year.
Good grief, what is this kid buying for lunch? At my kid’s elementary school breakfast at the cafeteria is $2 and lunch is $3.
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Was discussing kids with a coworker. He said he and his wife give their 15 year old son $50 a week for lunch. This is a good lesson for him because he has to keep it at $10 a day or less. This is $200 a month on lunches....which doesn't include weekend lunches...for one child. They will do the same for their daughter when she enters high school next year. This same gentleman has not put any money in his 401(k) for years (3% match) because he can't bear to see the size of his take home pay reduced. This man and his wife make close to $200k a year.
Good grief, what is this kid buying for lunch? At my kid’s elementary school breakfast at the cafeteria is $2 and lunch is $3.
Yes, imagine these kids learning that this spending amount for lunch is normal. They will probably continue to spend that much when they start working themselves.
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PTF
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Was discussing kids with a coworker. He said he and his wife give their 15 year old son $50 a week for lunch. This is a good lesson for him because he has to keep it at $10 a day or less. This is $200 a month on lunches....which doesn't include weekend lunches...for one child. They will do the same for their daughter when she enters high school next year. This same gentleman has not put any money in his 401(k) for years (3% match) because he can't bear to see the size of his take home pay reduced. This man and his wife make close to $200k a year.
Good grief, what is this kid buying for lunch? At my kid’s elementary school breakfast at the cafeteria is $2 and lunch is $3.
The school lunch is between usually between 3-5 dollars but that's not cool. Going out to Chipotle, Subway, or Taco Bell is usually the order of the day.
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Was discussing kids with a coworker. He said he and his wife give their 15 year old son $50 a week for lunch. This is a good lesson for him because he has to keep it at $10 a day or less. This is $200 a month on lunches....which doesn't include weekend lunches...for one child. They will do the same for their daughter when she enters high school next year. This same gentleman has not put any money in his 401(k) for years (3% match) because he can't bear to see the size of his take home pay reduced. This man and his wife make close to $200k a year.
Good grief, what is this kid buying for lunch? At my kid’s elementary school breakfast at the cafeteria is $2 and lunch is $3.
The school lunch is between usually between 3-5 dollars but that's not cool. Going out to Chipotle, Subway, or Taco Bell is usually the order of the day.
Another good reason my kids take home packed lunches every day. We are just teaching them to brown bag it when they are adults too. :)
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A minimalist-clean-freak-yet-consumerist friend of mine has told me that he wants his next car (he leases) to be a $70,000 pickup truck. He works in an office all day, no calluses on his hands. He wants the pickup because he can "throw the kids' dirty sports things in the back in the covered bed and not stink up the SUV after a game." He has one child, age 3, no sports teams.
A carrier rack cargo top is out of the question?
1. toss is in the hatchback like the rest of us.
2. little kids' equipment doesn't stink too bad until they hit puberty so this guy will have used up his truck (and likely one more, given his non-MMM), before needing to keep any stink out.
Black plastic trash bag $0.30 vs $70,000. If you reuse the bag $0.15, $0.10 if you use it 3 times.
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I'm new to Mustachianism, but today I remembered something that used to happen all the time at an old workplace of mine, which was on the 9th floor of a building.
Quite frequently, the elevators were out of order. So on those mornings, someone would send an email around the entire office saying "Forget Leg Day! Elevators not working!" I had to ask what this meant - they explained that they were telling people who usually go to the gym to work out before work that they could skip the gym for today and walk up the stairs instead.
Because you can't just do that every damn day????
(I thought it was funny at the time, but now I'm a Mustachian, I see just how crazy that is!)
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I'm new to Mustachianism, but today I remembered something that used to happen all the time at an old workplace of mine, which was on the 9th floor of a building.
Quite frequently, the elevators were out of order. So on those mornings, someone would send an email around the entire office saying "Forget Leg Day! Elevators not working!" I had to ask what this meant - they explained that they were telling people who usually go to the gym to work out before work that they could skip the gym for today and walk up the stairs instead.
Because you can't just do that every damn day????
(I thought it was funny at the time, but now I'm a Mustachian, I see just how crazy that is!)
With gymbros, my understanding is "leg day" means you are basically a cripple for the rest of the day because you went so hard that you are sore as hell. In that case, taking the stairs up might be quite painful and you might want to skip leg day.
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Does everyone check their work emails in the morning before they even get to the building ?
I suppose if you don't check emails bright and early, you get to the building , the elevators don't work, you have to walk up stairs, just like everyone else...
Maybe it was actually a humblebrag about the "notifier" working out that week ?
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"Why would we wash dishes when we can just use paper plates from Costco, amiright?"
No. No that is not right.
ETA: This was in reference to regular home use
FWIW, I have some relatives that have actually done the math of paper vs reusable plates, and it's not as clear-cut as you might immediately think. When you consider the acquisition cost, the cost of water, electricity, detergent, and the time spent washing and putting away dishes, the gap narrows considerably.
That is some pretty funny math
1 Acquisition Cost-- can you imagine not owning a single dinner plate that is not disposable? Most people have a set (as a gift usually) and then buy the paper plates too. In reality, most people would buy a set of dishes for $30, and have it last 10 -15 years. $0.01/dinner
2. Time spent washing dishes is free because I don't pay anyone to do that for me. When I am too busy (making money) they pile up or I ask someone else to wash them (for free).
3. Water / Electricity $0.17/load. Soap $0.17/load = $0.34/load. Also - do you buy plastic cutlery and how do you get the pots and pans clean, serving items without running a dishwasher..? What about cups?
Plates, cups, cutlery (disposable) for 6 persons:$0.70. (2 cents per plate, 5 cent cup, 3 cent cutlery, plus one trash bag at $0.10 per meal)
Cost to run dishwasher, plates $0.35
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Was discussing kids with a coworker. He said he and his wife give their 15 year old son $50 a week for lunch. This is a good lesson for him because he has to keep it at $10 a day or less. This is $200 a month on lunches....which doesn't include weekend lunches...for one child. They will do the same for their daughter when she enters high school next year. This same gentleman has not put any money in his 401(k) for years (3% match) because he can't bear to see the size of his take home pay reduced. This man and his wife make close to $200k a year.
Good grief, what is this kid buying for lunch? At my kid’s elementary school breakfast at the cafeteria is $2 and lunch is $3.
The school lunch is between usually between 3-5 dollars but that's not cool. Going out to Chipotle, Subway, or Taco Bell is usually the order of the day.
I'd love to see those prices at the school cafeteria... lunch for my kindergartener is 5$, and that includes a lunch like 'soup and grilled cheese' (I have a moral objection to paying 5$ for soup and grilled cheese).
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My dad is always astounded that he can pay $48 for a salad at a restaurant a couple of miles away where from families are paying $0.40 a day for reduced-price school lunch.
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Was discussing kids with a coworker. He said he and his wife give their 15 year old son $50 a week for lunch. This is a good lesson for him because he has to keep it at $10 a day or less. This is $200 a month on lunches....which doesn't include weekend lunches...for one child. They will do the same for their daughter when she enters high school next year. This same gentleman has not put any money in his 401(k) for years (3% match) because he can't bear to see the size of his take home pay reduced. This man and his wife make close to $200k a year.
Good grief, what is this kid buying for lunch? At my kid’s elementary school breakfast at the cafeteria is $2 and lunch is $3.
Yes, imagine these kids learning that this spending amount for lunch is normal. They will probably continue to spend that much when they start working themselves.
Worse yet, imagine these kids learn that $10 per lunch is being deprived, then start making their own money, spending $15-$20 per lunch, and wondering why they have no money left at the end of the month...
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The school my kid goes to is high poverty. I don’t know if that has anything to do with it or not.
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I was saying to my husband last night how odd it is that her school is a Title I in a neighborhood where every house is easily over $1M. Funny world we live in.
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I'm new to Mustachianism, but today I remembered something that used to happen all the time at an old workplace of mine, which was on the 9th floor of a building.
Quite frequently, the elevators were out of order. So on those mornings, someone would send an email around the entire office saying "Forget Leg Day! Elevators not working!" I had to ask what this meant - they explained that they were telling people who usually go to the gym to work out before work that they could skip the gym for today and walk up the stairs instead.
Because you can't just do that every damn day????
(I thought it was funny at the time, but now I'm a Mustachian, I see just how crazy that is!)
With gymbros, my understanding is "leg day" means you are basically a cripple for the rest of the day because you went so hard that you are sore as hell. In that case, taking the stairs up might be quite painful and you might want to skip leg day.
I work in a 20 story building and as soon as the weather gets cold I do the stairs from the lobby to 20 twice a day for the exercise. It kills me to see my coworkers take the elevator to go up 1 story but then talk about their gym workout.
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I'm new to Mustachianism, but today I remembered something that used to happen all the time at an old workplace of mine, which was on the 9th floor of a building.
Quite frequently, the elevators were out of order. So on those mornings, someone would send an email around the entire office saying "Forget Leg Day! Elevators not working!" I had to ask what this meant - they explained that they were telling people who usually go to the gym to work out before work that they could skip the gym for today and walk up the stairs instead.
Because you can't just do that every damn day????
(I thought it was funny at the time, but now I'm a Mustachian, I see just how crazy that is!)
With gymbros, my understanding is "leg day" means you are basically a cripple for the rest of the day because you went so hard that you are sore as hell. In that case, taking the stairs up might be quite painful and you might want to skip leg day.
I work in a 20 story building and as soon as the weather gets cold I do the stairs from the lobby to 20 twice a day for the exercise. It kills me to see my coworkers take the elevator to go up 1 story but then talk about their gym workout.
I fully agree with getting exercise in throughout the day (I'd never idle for 5 minutes just to get a parking spot 20 feet closer to the entrance) but I do sweat profusely so I can understand why some people would want to separate their job from their workout.
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I'm new to Mustachianism, but today I remembered something that used to happen all the time at an old workplace of mine, which was on the 9th floor of a building.
Quite frequently, the elevators were out of order. So on those mornings, someone would send an email around the entire office saying "Forget Leg Day! Elevators not working!" I had to ask what this meant - they explained that they were telling people who usually go to the gym to work out before work that they could skip the gym for today and walk up the stairs instead.
Because you can't just do that every damn day????
(I thought it was funny at the time, but now I'm a Mustachian, I see just how crazy that is!)
With gymbros, my understanding is "leg day" means you are basically a cripple for the rest of the day because you went so hard that you are sore as hell. In that case, taking the stairs up might be quite painful and you might want to skip leg day.
I work in a 20 story building and as soon as the weather gets cold I do the stairs from the lobby to 20 twice a day for the exercise. It kills me to see my coworkers take the elevator to go up 1 story but then talk about their gym workout.
Um... I find stairs really difficult with bad knees - multiple dislocations. I use the elevator. I still go to the gym.....
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I'm new to Mustachianism, but today I remembered something that used to happen all the time at an old workplace of mine, which was on the 9th floor of a building.
Quite frequently, the elevators were out of order. So on those mornings, someone would send an email around the entire office saying "Forget Leg Day! Elevators not working!" I had to ask what this meant - they explained that they were telling people who usually go to the gym to work out before work that they could skip the gym for today and walk up the stairs instead.
Because you can't just do that every damn day????
(I thought it was funny at the time, but now I'm a Mustachian, I see just how crazy that is!)
With gymbros, my understanding is "leg day" means you are basically a cripple for the rest of the day because you went so hard that you are sore as hell. In that case, taking the stairs up might be quite painful and you might want to skip leg day.
I work in a 20 story building and as soon as the weather gets cold I do the stairs from the lobby to 20 twice a day for the exercise. It kills me to see my coworkers take the elevator to go up 1 story but then talk about their gym workout.
Um... I find stairs really difficult with bad knees - multiple dislocations. I use the elevator. I still go to the gym.....
Bad knees and stairs, oh my. When I moved to an apartment one requirement was to be no more than 6 floors up. I can evacuate on my own in case of an emergency. Higher than that and I would be waiting for emergency personnel.
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I fully agree with getting exercise in throughout the day (I'd never idle for 5 minutes just to get a parking spot 20 feet closer to the entrance) but I do sweat profusely so I can understand why some people would want to separate their job from their workout.
Ha - I often go on a brisk walk at lunch, and then if it's warm, take the elevator back up to my 3rd floor office. The stairs push me right over the edge into profuse sweating after being outside. Not a problem in the winter though, so I have to catch myself on the urge to be lazy once the weather cools.
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I'm new to Mustachianism, but today I remembered something that used to happen all the time at an old workplace of mine, which was on the 9th floor of a building.
Quite frequently, the elevators were out of order. So on those mornings, someone would send an email around the entire office saying "Forget Leg Day! Elevators not working!" I had to ask what this meant - they explained that they were telling people who usually go to the gym to work out before work that they could skip the gym for today and walk up the stairs instead.
Because you can't just do that every damn day????
(I thought it was funny at the time, but now I'm a Mustachian, I see just how crazy that is!)
This reminds me of my workplace, where my problem is that I cannot reach the 3rd floor (where my office is) from the lobby via the stairs. They refuse to allow entrance, only exit, via the 3rd floor stairway door. I have asked that they install a key card reader (we all have them!) to allow entrance only via key card, and they refuse. I would LOVE to be able to walk up my 3 flights of stairs each day, but alas, I may not. So I must take the elevator. So silly.
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I'm new to Mustachianism, but today I remembered something that used to happen all the time at an old workplace of mine, which was on the 9th floor of a building.
Quite frequently, the elevators were out of order. So on those mornings, someone would send an email around the entire office saying "Forget Leg Day! Elevators not working!" I had to ask what this meant - they explained that they were telling people who usually go to the gym to work out before work that they could skip the gym for today and walk up the stairs instead.
Because you can't just do that every damn day????
(I thought it was funny at the time, but now I'm a Mustachian, I see just how crazy that is!)
With gymbros, my understanding is "leg day" means you are basically a cripple for the rest of the day because you went so hard that you are sore as hell. In that case, taking the stairs up might be quite painful and you might want to skip leg day.
I work in a 20 story building and as soon as the weather gets cold I do the stairs from the lobby to 20 twice a day for the exercise. It kills me to see my coworkers take the elevator to go up 1 story but then talk about their gym workout.
Um... I find stairs really difficult with bad knees - multiple dislocations. I use the elevator. I still go to the gym.....
Bad knees and stairs, oh my. When I moved to an apartment one requirement was to be no more than 6 floors up. I can evacuate on my own in case of an emergency. Higher than that and I would be waiting for emergency personnel.
My real issue is that the woman who constantly does this spend a small fortune at the rock climbing gym to get her exercise.
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A minimalist-clean-freak-yet-consumerist friend of mine has told me that he wants his next car (he leases) to be a $70,000 pickup truck. He works in an office all day, no calluses on his hands. He wants the pickup because he can "throw the kids' dirty sports things in the back in the covered bed and not stink up the SUV after a game." He has one child, age 3, no sports teams.
A carrier rack cargo top is out of the question?
1. toss is in the hatchback like the rest of us.
2. little kids' equipment doesn't stink too bad until they hit puberty so this guy will have used up his truck (and likely one more, given his non-MMM), before needing to keep any stink out.
Black plastic trash bag $0.30 vs $70,000. If you reuse the bag $0.15, $0.10 if you use it 3 times.
A trailer hitch cargo platform is a great way to haul dirty things for $150. Cheaper than a different vehicle or a trailer. Easier to park too. Waterproof bags are available too. We've vacationed that way when the car wasn't big enough. Rooftop box had more appeal but was more $$$.
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A minimalist-clean-freak-yet-consumerist friend of mine has told me that he wants his next car (he leases) to be a $70,000 pickup truck. He works in an office all day, no calluses on his hands. He wants the pickup because he can "throw the kids' dirty sports things in the back in the covered bed and not stink up the SUV after a game." He has one child, age 3, no sports teams.
A carrier rack cargo top is out of the question?
1. toss is in the hatchback like the rest of us.
2. little kids' equipment doesn't stink too bad until they hit puberty so this guy will have used up his truck (and likely one more, given his non-MMM), before needing to keep any stink out.
Black plastic trash bag $0.30 vs $70,000. If you reuse the bag $0.15, $0.10 if you use it 3 times.
A trailer hitch cargo platform is a great way to haul dirty things for $150. Cheaper than a different vehicle or a trailer. Easier to park too. Waterproof bags are available too. We've vacationed that way when the car wasn't big enough. Rooftop box had more appeal but was more $$$.
Yes, but this doesn't actually address the issue. He wants the $70,000 pickup. Everything else is a false justification to post-rationalise the fact that he wants the $70,000 pickup.
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Was discussing kids with a coworker. He said he and his wife give their 15 year old son $50 a week for lunch. This is a good lesson for him because he has to keep it at $10 a day or less. This is $200 a month on lunches....which doesn't include weekend lunches...for one child. They will do the same for their daughter when she enters high school next year. This same gentleman has not put any money in his 401(k) for years (3% match) because he can't bear to see the size of his take home pay reduced. This man and his wife make close to $200k a year.
Good grief, what is this kid buying for lunch? At my kid’s elementary school breakfast at the cafeteria is $2 and lunch is $3.
15 yr old boy probably eats more than a little kid... but yeah. I'm going to pretend this kid also has a snack before and after practice, etc. He also goes out with his friends for lunch on occasion I'm guessing. It COULD teach him a good budgetary lesson. My mom gave me a fixed amount "for lunch" (I think it was $20/week) and if I made a PB&J and ate that instead, I could pocket the money. Or I could buy school lunch, or I could go out with friends. The 3% match throw away is way more horrific than the amount spent on lunch (maybe).
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Was discussing kids with a coworker. He said he and his wife give their 15 year old son $50 a week for lunch. This is a good lesson for him because he has to keep it at $10 a day or less. This is $200 a month on lunches....which doesn't include weekend lunches...for one child. They will do the same for their daughter when she enters high school next year. This same gentleman has not put any money in his 401(k) for years (3% match) because he can't bear to see the size of his take home pay reduced. This man and his wife make close to $200k a year.
Good grief, what is this kid buying for lunch? At my kid’s elementary school breakfast at the cafeteria is $2 and lunch is $3.
15 yr old boy probably eats more than a little kid... but yeah. I'm going to pretend this kid also has a snack before and after practice, etc. He also goes out with his friends for lunch on occasion I'm guessing. It COULD teach him a good budgetary lesson. My mom gave me a fixed amount "for lunch" (I think it was $20/week) and if I made a PB&J and ate that instead, I could pocket the money. Or I could buy school lunch, or I could go out with friends. The 3% match throw away is way more horrific than the amount spent on lunch (maybe).
My kids got $20 a week when they were in high school. Lunch was $2.25, and I got tired of keeping enough singles and quarters around. I had hoped they'd make a PB&J and keep the money, but they used the extra to buy cookies and soda.
They also got their age in allowance - 1/2 in cash, 1/2 in the bank. I made that an even $10 at some point due to the same singles issue. So they got $30 a week. This was 2003-2009.
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Was discussing kids with a coworker. He said he and his wife give their 15 year old son $50 a week for lunch. This is a good lesson for him because he has to keep it at $10 a day or less. This is $200 a month on lunches....which doesn't include weekend lunches...for one child. They will do the same for their daughter when she enters high school next year. This same gentleman has not put any money in his 401(k) for years (3% match) because he can't bear to see the size of his take home pay reduced. This man and his wife make close to $200k a year.
Good grief, what is this kid buying for lunch? At my kid’s elementary school breakfast at the cafeteria is $2 and lunch is $3.
15 yr old boy probably eats more than a little kid... but yeah. I'm going to pretend this kid also has a snack before and after practice, etc. He also goes out with his friends for lunch on occasion I'm guessing. It COULD teach him a good budgetary lesson. My mom gave me a fixed amount "for lunch" (I think it was $20/week) and if I made a PB&J and ate that instead, I could pocket the money. Or I could buy school lunch, or I could go out with friends. The 3% match throw away is way more horrific than the amount spent on lunch (maybe).
My kids got $20 a week when they were in high school. Lunch was $2.25, and I got tired of keeping enough singles and quarters around. I had hoped they'd make a PB&J and keep the money, but they used the extra to buy cookies and soda.
They also got their age in allowance - 1/2 in cash, 1/2 in the bank. I made that an even $10 at some point due to the same singles issue. So they got $30 a week. This was 2003-2009.
Starting in 7th grade (the point where we transitioned from elementary to HS), mom started giving me $2/day instead of my having a lunch account. I, of course, just stopped eating lunch for the most part and just tucked the money in my bag. I walked around with a stack of $1s like a stripper for a whole semester before mom figured it out and started giving me either $5s or $10s each week instead.
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A minimalist-clean-freak-yet-consumerist friend of mine has told me that he wants his next car (he leases) to be a $70,000 pickup truck. He works in an office all day, no calluses on his hands. He wants the pickup because he can "throw the kids' dirty sports things in the back in the covered bed and not stink up the SUV after a game." He has one child, age 3, no sports teams.
A carrier rack cargo top is out of the question?
1. toss is in the hatchback like the rest of us.
2. little kids' equipment doesn't stink too bad until they hit puberty so this guy will have used up his truck (and likely one more, given his non-MMM), before needing to keep any stink out.
Black plastic trash bag $0.30 vs $70,000. If you reuse the bag $0.15, $0.10 if you use it 3 times.
A trailer hitch cargo platform is a great way to haul dirty things for $150. Cheaper than a different vehicle or a trailer. Easier to park too. Waterproof bags are available too. We've vacationed that way when the car wasn't big enough. Rooftop box had more appeal but was more $$$.
We discussed the option at home, but think it is more vulnerable for theft, especially the option with the bag instead of a solid crate.
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We discussed the option at home, but think it is more vulnerable for theft, especially the option with the bag instead of a solid crate.
You just need to keep moving... ;)
We used it to drive into NYC. The contents of the bag were used clothes and a pillow. The platform was locked to the car.
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Talking to CW about finances, taxes and such...
CW who is 40 years old offhandedly mentions his household makes $130k annually and they spend well over their post-tax earnings.
CW then goes into how bad our 401k plan is, says he only contributes $70 a month with a $30 employer match.
Really wanted to ask him how he thinks he'll be able to retire and what kind of lifestyle he expects on those small contributions...Goes to show people really just don't even think about retirement at all, even the conventional "retire at 62 or 67" sense.
Also wanted to mention that as a 25 year old my total 401k contributions are over $800 a month and see the look of confusion on his face.
God, that is so depressing.
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Goes to show people really just don't even think about retirement at all, even the conventional "retire at 62 or 67" sense.
Not true! Many of them think about retirement at 62 or 67 all the time.
They just don't think about funding it until they apply for social security and discover that's not going to support their expenses.
My wife told me a story about a work colleague who was nearing retirement age and came back crying after meeting with their TIAA representative. They had no idea they hadn't saved enough.
That's one reason why I tell people about this stuff.
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Goes to show people really just don't even think about retirement at all, even the conventional "retire at 62 or 67" sense.
Not true! Many of them think about retirement at 62 or 67 all the time.
They just don't think about funding it until they apply for social security and discover that's not going to support their expenses.
My wife told me a story about a work colleague who was nearing retirement age and came back crying after meeting with their TIAA representative. They had no idea they hadn't saved enough.
That's one reason why I tell people about this stuff.
Yeah, tell me about it. Dad wants to retire. Fair, he's 67. But he's also probably going to sit in a chair and do nothing and die within 6 months. Mom's also not eligible for Medicare yet. But once they do retire, they are going to have a very rude shock. I've tried to get them to reduce expenses, but right now they're not willing to. They are not going to be happy when they realize that they will be able to afford restaurants OR cigarettes OR medical. Pick one.
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Overheard on a work forum recently...
A: Hey, is anyone selling a ghost costume? My three year old insists on being a ghost, and I’ve already bought him a skeleton one! Will pay up to $20 for a ghost costume! Please help!
B: Get an old bedsheet and cut two holes in it (eyes). You may need to also shorten it a bit.
A: That’s my back up plan, but I’d really like to get him a real costume.
I have half a mind to cut two holes in my old white bedsheet and offer to sell it to them for $20. Just last month, I tried to give it away for free on the work forum and there were no takers.
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Overheard on a work forum recently...
A: Hey, is anyone selling a ghost costume? My three year old insists on being a ghost, and I’ve already bought him a skeleton one! Will pay up to $20 for a ghost costume! Please help!
B: Get an old bedsheet and cut two holes in it (eyes). You may need to also shorten it a bit.
A: That’s my back up plan, but I’d really like to get him a real costume.
I have half a mind to cut two holes in my old white bedsheet and offer to sell it to them for $20. Just last month, I tried to give it away for free on the work forum and there were no takers.
DO IT!! And please update us.
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Goes to show people really just don't even think about retirement at all, even the conventional "retire at 62 or 67" sense.
Not true! Many of them think about retirement at 62 or 67 all the time.
They just don't think about funding it until they apply for social security and discover that's not going to support their expenses.
My wife told me a story about a work colleague who was nearing retirement age and came back crying after meeting with their TIAA representative. They had no idea they hadn't saved enough.
That's one reason why I tell people about this stuff.
Yeah, tell me about it. Dad wants to retire. Fair, he's 67. But he's also probably going to sit in a chair and do nothing and die within 6 months. Mom's also not eligible for Medicare yet. But once they do retire, they are going to have a very rude shock. I've tried to get them to reduce expenses, but right now they're not willing to. They are not going to be happy when they realize that they will be able to afford restaurants OR cigarettes OR medical. Pick one.
Aunt and uncle are facing this. They were told that if they cut expenses and lived on 2/3 of what they had been spending their nest egg+social security might last them 13 years. Uncle and dad are partners on the farm, so I anticipate (because they haven’t cut expenses and auntie seems to be spending more if possible because she has more time on her hands) the sale of said farmland within the next 12 years. That’ll be fine since mom wants dad to retire when he’s 65(3 more years) so they can retire together. Mom and dad have a nice nest egg, though mom is hard to convince of this. (350k in retirement funds, and a house they’ll want to downsize from estimateed to be worth 400-500k). They’d buy in a lower cost of living area probably something in the 200k range after the farmland and house sold. I tell her all the time she lives on way less than 4% of that now, but she doesn’t believe me. She also plans to continue maxing out her 401k for the next 3 years.
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Overheard on a work forum recently...
A: Hey, is anyone selling a ghost costume? My three year old insists on being a ghost, and I’ve already bought him a skeleton one! Will pay up to $20 for a ghost costume! Please help!
B: Get an old bedsheet and cut two holes in it (eyes). You may need to also shorten it a bit.
A: That’s my back up plan, but I’d really like to get him a real costume.
I have half a mind to cut two holes in my old white bedsheet and offer to sell it to them for $20. Just last month, I tried to give it away for free on the work forum and there were no takers.
That reminds me of the year before my son turned three. I knew it was going to be the last year before he had an opinion on the matter and I had spent MONTHS scouring the thrift stores to find all the pieces to make his costume. Three days before Halloween he tells me that he wants to be a pumpkin. So, I made a deal with him that he could be a pumpkin during the day for the daycare party, but he was going to wear the one I made for trick or treating. You'd think that finding a pumpkin costume for a toddler wouldn't be that difficult, right? I couldn't find one anywhere. Finally, on the afternoon of the 30th I stopped by this weird little shop that always has an assortment of stuff that "fell off the truck" and found a $5 pumpkin costume. For dogs. It turns out that a costume made for a large dog will fit a toddler almost perfectly.
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Overheard on a work forum recently...
A: Hey, is anyone selling a ghost costume? My three year old insists on being a ghost, and I’ve already bought him a skeleton one! Will pay up to $20 for a ghost costume! Please help!
B: Get an old bedsheet and cut two holes in it (eyes). You may need to also shorten it a bit.
A: That’s my back up plan, but I’d really like to get him a real costume.
I have half a mind to cut two holes in my old white bedsheet and offer to sell it to them for $20. Just last month, I tried to give it away for free on the work forum and there were no takers.
That reminds me of the year before my son turned three. I knew it was going to be the last year before he had an opinion on the matter and I had spent MONTHS scouring the thrift stores to find all the pieces to make his costume. Three days before Halloween he tells me that he wants to be a pumpkin. So, I made a deal with him that he could be a pumpkin during the day for the daycare party, but he was going to wear the one I made for trick or treating. You'd think that finding a pumpkin costume for a toddler wouldn't be that difficult, right? I couldn't find one anywhere. Finally, on the afternoon of the 30th I stopped by this weird little shop that always has an assortment of stuff that "fell off the truck" and found a $5 pumpkin costume. For dogs. It turns out that a costume made for a large dog will fit a toddler almost perfectly.
Hahaha that's awesome!
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At work today:
CW - Hey, what area did you grow up in?
ME - Oh, XYZ area. Why?
CW - Well, we are looking to buy a home and are open to considering areas that aren't as local.
ME - Oh, neat.
CW - Yeah, it sounds crazy - but I am buying a house with 4 different relatives. Nobody ever believes me when I say that. But we will save so much money if we are all splitting the mortgage/utilities!
ME - (actually thinking I was about to have a worthwhile conversation) Oh, hey, that's awesome. Especially if you have that strong of a relationship with your family.
CW - Yeah, it's just hard. I mean, we are going to have to have a HUGE house to fit us all. At least 6 bedrooms, ya know? Probably more though.
I still really like the sentiment behind it all, but looking for a minimum of 6 bedroom house for a household of 5 just made me laugh on the inside. If the objective was truly saving money...there is a lot of money left on the table there.
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At work today:
CW - Hey, what area did you grow up in?
ME - Oh, XYZ area. Why?
CW - Well, we are looking to buy a home and are open to considering areas that aren't as local.
ME - Oh, neat.
CW - Yeah, it sounds crazy - but I am buying a house with 4 different relatives. Nobody ever believes me when I say that. But we will save so much money if we are all splitting the mortgage/utilities!
ME - (actually thinking I was about to have a worthwhile conversation) Oh, hey, that's awesome. Especially if you have that strong of a relationship with your family.
CW - Yeah, it's just hard. I mean, we are going to have to have a HUGE house to fit us all. At least 6 bedrooms, ya know? Probably more though.
I still really like the sentiment behind it all, but looking for a minimum of 6 bedroom house for a household of 5 just made me laugh on the inside. If the objective was truly saving money...there is a lot of money left on the table there.
I think it's good. Each one has a room and one more for guests. It is not to the liking of everyone to sleep with someone else in the same room, especially if there are noise problems ;) And everyone should have a space just for himself. That may not be such big a thing for extroverts, but for people like me...
But you save (theoretically) a lot on the rest. Of course a house with so many rooms may only be available as a McMansion, which would not save you money.
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Goes to show people really just don't even think about retirement at all, even the conventional "retire at 62 or 67" sense.
Not true! Many of them think about retirement at 62 or 67 all the time.
They just don't think about funding it until they apply for social security and discover that's not going to support their expenses.
My wife told me a story about a work colleague who was nearing retirement age and came back crying after meeting with their TIAA representative. They had no idea they hadn't saved enough.
That's one reason why I tell people about this stuff.
I work in a 5 man IT team - 3 of us are working on FIRE. I'm older (54) and realized I had left it too late to RE - I was raised on the 'work until you are 65 and retire with a pension' plan. Took me until my early 50s to figure FIRE out. Since figuring it out and seeing start to work, I've been preaching it to my early 30s co-workers though. They were both amazed when I showed them the math and that both of them could FIRE at about 45.
Showing them this and seeing them get it makes me very happy.
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At work today:
CW - Hey, what area did you grow up in?
ME - Oh, XYZ area. Why?
CW - Well, we are looking to buy a home and are open to considering areas that aren't as local.
ME - Oh, neat.
CW - Yeah, it sounds crazy - but I am buying a house with 4 different relatives. Nobody ever believes me when I say that. But we will save so much money if we are all splitting the mortgage/utilities!
ME - (actually thinking I was about to have a worthwhile conversation) Oh, hey, that's awesome. Especially if you have that strong of a relationship with your family.
CW - Yeah, it's just hard. I mean, we are going to have to have a HUGE house to fit us all. At least 6 bedrooms, ya know? Probably more though.
I still really like the sentiment behind it all, but looking for a minimum of 6 bedroom house for a household of 5 just made me laugh on the inside. If the objective was truly saving money...there is a lot of money left on the table there.
I think it's good. Each one has a room and one more for guests. It is not to the liking of everyone to sleep with someone else in the same room, especially if there are noise problems ;) And everyone should have a space just for himself. That may not be such big a thing for extroverts, but for people like me...
But you save (theoretically) a lot on the rest. Of course a house with so many rooms may only be available as a McMansion, which would not save you money.
I think it's a recipe for disaster. It might appear to make sense now, but circumstances change.
Are these five people single? Expecting to stay single forever? What happens when one of them enters into a long-term relationship? How does that factor into the plan?
What happens if one party doesn't meet their ongoing financial obligations re mortgage or utilities?
Who gets the "best" bedroom and who gets the "dud" room?
What happens if someone "needs" their equity and wants to sell and the rest don't?
What if someone decides to move out? Do they organise a roommate to cover their mortgage expense? Do YOU organise one? What if you disagree?
I suspect this kind of thing CAN work, but I reckon the likelihood of it not working must be pretty high...
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At work today:
CW - Hey, what area did you grow up in?
ME - Oh, XYZ area. Why?
CW - Well, we are looking to buy a home and are open to considering areas that aren't as local.
ME - Oh, neat.
CW - Yeah, it sounds crazy - but I am buying a house with 4 different relatives. Nobody ever believes me when I say that. But we will save so much money if we are all splitting the mortgage/utilities!
ME - (actually thinking I was about to have a worthwhile conversation) Oh, hey, that's awesome. Especially if you have that strong of a relationship with your family.
CW - Yeah, it's just hard. I mean, we are going to have to have a HUGE house to fit us all. At least 6 bedrooms, ya know? Probably more though.
I still really like the sentiment behind it all, but looking for a minimum of 6 bedroom house for a household of 5 just made me laugh on the inside. If the objective was truly saving money...there is a lot of money left on the table there.
I think it's good. Each one has a room and one more for guests. It is not to the liking of everyone to sleep with someone else in the same room, especially if there are noise problems ;) And everyone should have a space just for himself. That may not be such big a thing for extroverts, but for people like me...
But you save (theoretically) a lot on the rest. Of course a house with so many rooms may only be available as a McMansion, which would not save you money.
I think it's a recipe for disaster. It might appear to make sense now, but circumstances change.
Are these five people single? Expecting to stay single forever? What happens when one of them enters into a long-term relationship? How does that factor into the plan?
What happens if one party doesn't meet their ongoing financial obligations re mortgage or utilities?
Who gets the "best" bedroom and who gets the "dud" room?
What happens if someone "needs" their equity and wants to sell and the rest don't?
What if someone decides to move out? Do they organise a roommate to cover their mortgage expense? Do YOU organise one? What if you disagree?
I suspect this kind of thing CAN work, but I reckon the likelihood of it not working must be pretty high...
There was an Australian TV show about a group of friends doing this (https://10play.com.au/five-bedrooms)
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At work today:
CW - Hey, what area did you grow up in?
ME - Oh, XYZ area. Why?
CW - Well, we are looking to buy a home and are open to considering areas that aren't as local.
ME - Oh, neat.
CW - Yeah, it sounds crazy - but I am buying a house with 4 different relatives. Nobody ever believes me when I say that. But we will save so much money if we are all splitting the mortgage/utilities!
ME - (actually thinking I was about to have a worthwhile conversation) Oh, hey, that's awesome. Especially if you have that strong of a relationship with your family.
CW - Yeah, it's just hard. I mean, we are going to have to have a HUGE house to fit us all. At least 6 bedrooms, ya know? Probably more though.
I still really like the sentiment behind it all, but looking for a minimum of 6 bedroom house for a household of 5 just made me laugh on the inside. If the objective was truly saving money...there is a lot of money left on the table there.
I think it's good. Each one has a room and one more for guests. It is not to the liking of everyone to sleep with someone else in the same room, especially if there are noise problems ;) And everyone should have a space just for himself. That may not be such big a thing for extroverts, but for people like me...
But you save (theoretically) a lot on the rest. Of course a house with so many rooms may only be available as a McMansion, which would not save you money.
I think it's a recipe for disaster. It might appear to make sense now, but circumstances change.
Are these five people single? Expecting to stay single forever? What happens when one of them enters into a long-term relationship? How does that factor into the plan?
What happens if one party doesn't meet their ongoing financial obligations re mortgage or utilities?
Who gets the "best" bedroom and who gets the "dud" room?
What happens if someone "needs" their equity and wants to sell and the rest don't?
What if someone decides to move out? Do they organise a roommate to cover their mortgage expense? Do YOU organise one? What if you disagree?
I suspect this kind of thing CAN work, but I reckon the likelihood of it not working must be pretty high...
There was an Australian TV show about a group of friends doing this (https://10play.com.au/five-bedrooms)
But what happens when people stop being polite and start getting real?
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At work today:
CW - Hey, what area did you grow up in?
ME - Oh, XYZ area. Why?
CW - Well, we are looking to buy a home and are open to considering areas that aren't as local.
ME - Oh, neat.
CW - Yeah, it sounds crazy - but I am buying a house with 4 different relatives. Nobody ever believes me when I say that. But we will save so much money if we are all splitting the mortgage/utilities!
ME - (actually thinking I was about to have a worthwhile conversation) Oh, hey, that's awesome. Especially if you have that strong of a relationship with your family.
CW - Yeah, it's just hard. I mean, we are going to have to have a HUGE house to fit us all. At least 6 bedrooms, ya know? Probably more though.
I still really like the sentiment behind it all, but looking for a minimum of 6 bedroom house for a household of 5 just made me laugh on the inside. If the objective was truly saving money...there is a lot of money left on the table there.
I think it's good. Each one has a room and one more for guests. It is not to the liking of everyone to sleep with someone else in the same room, especially if there are noise problems ;) And everyone should have a space just for himself. That may not be such big a thing for extroverts, but for people like me...
But you save (theoretically) a lot on the rest. Of course a house with so many rooms may only be available as a McMansion, which would not save you money.
I think it's a recipe for disaster. It might appear to make sense now, but circumstances change.
Are these five people single? Expecting to stay single forever? What happens when one of them enters into a long-term relationship? How does that factor into the plan?
What happens if one party doesn't meet their ongoing financial obligations re mortgage or utilities?
Who gets the "best" bedroom and who gets the "dud" room?
What happens if someone "needs" their equity and wants to sell and the rest don't?
What if someone decides to move out? Do they organise a roommate to cover their mortgage expense? Do YOU organise one? What if you disagree?
I suspect this kind of thing CAN work, but I reckon the likelihood of it not working must be pretty high...
Same as any small business venture. Write it up in the charter with the help of a lawyer.
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There was an Australian TV show about a group of friends doing this (https://10play.com.au/five-bedrooms)
But what happens when people stop being polite and start getting real?
I see what you did there.
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I'm new to Mustachianism, but today I remembered something that used to happen all the time at an old workplace of mine, which was on the 9th floor of a building.
Quite frequently, the elevators were out of order. So on those mornings, someone would send an email around the entire office saying "Forget Leg Day! Elevators not working!" I had to ask what this meant - they explained that they were telling people who usually go to the gym to work out before work that they could skip the gym for today and walk up the stairs instead.
Because you can't just do that every damn day????
(I thought it was funny at the time, but now I'm a Mustachian, I see just how crazy that is!)
This reminds me of my workplace, where my problem is that I cannot reach the 3rd floor (where my office is) from the lobby via the stairs. They refuse to allow entrance, only exit, via the 3rd floor stairway door. I have asked that they install a key card reader (we all have them!) to allow entrance only via key card, and they refuse. I would LOVE to be able to walk up my 3 flights of stairs each day, but alas, I may not. So I must take the elevator. So silly.
This! I am currently starting to bike my commute. The parking garage is underground, so I go through a no pedestrians door, park, and am forced to take an elevator to the street level (NEXT TO the emergency ALARMED stairs) I then walk across the street to my building, where I can take the stairs multiple stories up. I don't understand, and that elevator is slow, dingy, and scary (in terms of wondering when it will get stuck). Strange decisions.
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I'm new to Mustachianism, but today I remembered something that used to happen all the time at an old workplace of mine, which was on the 9th floor of a building.
Quite frequently, the elevators were out of order. So on those mornings, someone would send an email around the entire office saying "Forget Leg Day! Elevators not working!" I had to ask what this meant - they explained that they were telling people who usually go to the gym to work out before work that they could skip the gym for today and walk up the stairs instead.
Because you can't just do that every damn day????
(I thought it was funny at the time, but now I'm a Mustachian, I see just how crazy that is!)
This reminds me of my workplace, where my problem is that I cannot reach the 3rd floor (where my office is) from the lobby via the stairs. They refuse to allow entrance, only exit, via the 3rd floor stairway door. I have asked that they install a key card reader (we all have them!) to allow entrance only via key card, and they refuse. I would LOVE to be able to walk up my 3 flights of stairs each day, but alas, I may not. So I must take the elevator. So silly.
This! I am currently starting to bike my commute. The parking garage is underground, so I go through a no pedestrians door, park, and am forced to take an elevator to the street level (NEXT TO the emergency ALARMED stairs) I then walk across the street to my building, where I can take the stairs multiple stories up. I don't understand, and that elevator is slow, dingy, and scary (in terms of wondering when it will get stuck). Strange decisions.
Do some jumping jacks or burpees on the elevator
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Haha... no :) (It doesn't take very long, and as old as that elevator appears to be... I don't want to give any additional active loading to it!)
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Haha... no :) (It doesn't take very long, and as old as that elevator appears to be... I don't want to give any additional active loading to it!)
I have heard from a few people who have been stuck in elevators at work. Usually they get i touch with a person when they use the alarm function. But it can still take some hours to fix the elevator and get them out. Better bring along some food, drink and an empty bottle on the ride, just in case. Luckily I only have 2 staircases at work and I can walk them.
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Haha... no :) (It doesn't take very long, and as old as that elevator appears to be... I don't want to give any additional active loading to it!)
I have heard from a few people who have been stuck in elevators at work. Usually they get i touch with a person when they use the alarm function. But it can still take some hours to fix the elevator and get them out. Better bring along some food, drink and an empty bottle on the ride, just in case. Luckily I only have 2 staircases at work and I can walk them.
Years ago, I started a new job at a new client in a new city I had to commute to and from every weekend. I got dropped off at the client location and was introduced, then my customer contact left for the day. I popped into the elevator to go down to the cafeteria on the first floor. The elevator went straight to the basement and stopped working. The doors wouldn't open. No one heard me yell. I found a small door panel on the elevator wall down at ankle level. It had a old style phone headset in a fixed cradle with a very short cable. So I bent over very awkwardly, picked it up and said "Hello? I'm stuck in the elevator."
"Ok. Where are you?"
"I'm in the elevator stuck in the basement."
"No, where are you?"
"Huh?"
"What address are you at?"
"You mean you're not in the building?"
"No, we're a national service bureau."
At this point I start to panic because I don't know where I am and they don't either. I know the name of my client's company, but it's not their building. I'm just in a building in the DC metro area.
"Oh, let me give you the phone number of someone who does knows where I am."
I was in that elevator for just under an hour.
Now I always make sure I don't have the slightest urge to pee before I get in an elevator because that last 15 minutes was uncomfy.
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Haha... no :) (It doesn't take very long, and as old as that elevator appears to be... I don't want to give any additional active loading to it!)
I have heard from a few people who have been stuck in elevators at work. Usually they get i touch with a person when they use the alarm function. But it can still take some hours to fix the elevator and get them out. Better bring along some food, drink and an empty bottle on the ride, just in case. Luckily I only have 2 staircases at work and I can walk them.
Years ago, I started a new job at a new client in a new city I had to commute to and from every weekend. I got dropped off at the client location and was introduced, then my customer contact left for the day. I popped into the elevator to go down to the cafeteria on the first floor. The elevator went straight to the basement and stopped working. The doors wouldn't open. No one heard me yell. I found a small door panel on the elevator wall down at ankle level. It had a old style phone headset in a fixed cradle with a very short cable. So I bent over very awkwardly, picked it up and said "Hello? I'm stuck in the elevator."
"Ok. Where are you?"
"I'm in the elevator stuck in the basement."
"No, where are you?"
"Huh?"
"What address are you at?"
"You mean you're not in the building?"
"No, we're a national service bureau."
At this point I start to panic because I don't know where I am and they don't either. I know the name of my client's company, but it's not their building. I'm just in a building in the DC metro area.
"Oh, let me give you the phone number of someone who does knows where I am."
I was in that elevator for just under an hour.
Now I always make sure I don't have the slightest urge to pee before I get in an elevator because that last 15 minutes was uncomfy.
You have to establish the pee corner early.
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Haha... no :) (It doesn't take very long, and as old as that elevator appears to be... I don't want to give any additional active loading to it!)
I have heard from a few people who have been stuck in elevators at work. Usually they get i touch with a person when they use the alarm function. But it can still take some hours to fix the elevator and get them out. Better bring along some food, drink and an empty bottle on the ride, just in case. Luckily I only have 2 staircases at work and I can walk them.
Years ago, I started a new job at a new client in a new city I had to commute to and from every weekend. I got dropped off at the client location and was introduced, then my customer contact left for the day. I popped into the elevator to go down to the cafeteria on the first floor. The elevator went straight to the basement and stopped working. The doors wouldn't open. No one heard me yell. I found a small door panel on the elevator wall down at ankle level. It had a old style phone headset in a fixed cradle with a very short cable. So I bent over very awkwardly, picked it up and said "Hello? I'm stuck in the elevator."
"Ok. Where are you?"
"I'm in the elevator stuck in the basement."
"No, where are you?"
"Huh?"
"What address are you at?"
"You mean you're not in the building?"
"No, we're a national service bureau."
At this point I start to panic because I don't know where I am and they don't either. I know the name of my client's company, but it's not their building. I'm just in a building in the DC metro area.
"Oh, let me give you the phone number of someone who does knows where I am."
I was in that elevator for just under an hour.
Now I always make sure I don't have the slightest urge to pee before I get in an elevator because that last 15 minutes was uncomfy.
You have to establish the pee corner early.
Yep!
Forgot to mention that the address of the building was not in the elevator. The certificate frame had a paper in it that said "Certificate on file in office." I went back and wrote the address on the inside of the door to the phone.
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That's a genuine fear of mine. I could get the urge to visit the loo, hop on the elevator b/c it is more comfortable than the stairs and then get stuck in the elevator for an hour.
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Haha... no :) (It doesn't take very long, and as old as that elevator appears to be... I don't want to give any additional active loading to it!)
I have heard from a few people who have been stuck in elevators at work. Usually they get i touch with a person when they use the alarm function. But it can still take some hours to fix the elevator and get them out. Better bring along some food, drink and an empty bottle on the ride, just in case. Luckily I only have 2 staircases at work and I can walk them.
Years ago, I started a new job at a new client in a new city I had to commute to and from every weekend. I got dropped off at the client location and was introduced, then my customer contact left for the day. I popped into the elevator to go down to the cafeteria on the first floor. The elevator went straight to the basement and stopped working. The doors wouldn't open. No one heard me yell. I found a small door panel on the elevator wall down at ankle level. It had a old style phone headset in a fixed cradle with a very short cable. So I bent over very awkwardly, picked it up and said "Hello? I'm stuck in the elevator."
"Ok. Where are you?"
"I'm in the elevator stuck in the basement."
"No, where are you?"
"Huh?"
"What address are you at?"
"You mean you're not in the building?"
"No, we're a national service bureau."
At this point I start to panic because I don't know where I am and they don't either. I know the name of my client's company, but it's not their building. I'm just in a building in the DC metro area.
"Oh, let me give you the phone number of someone who does knows where I am."
I was in that elevator for just under an hour.
Now I always make sure I don't have the slightest urge to pee before I get in an elevator because that last 15 minutes was uncomfy.
You have to establish the pee corner early.
That was what the empty bottle was meant for...
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https://vimeo.com/320038367
from the Office
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Just had such an insane conversations with my coworkers that my head may explode. During this conversation I was basically told I'm lucky for choosing not to have kids yet, because there's absolutely NO WAY you can max out retirement accounts on $120k household income AND pay for 2 kids. One even said to plan on spending half your income on your kids.... this is also the same person who makes $105k/yr, is eligible to retire today and pull in a pension of $43k/yr, but that he'd need to get another job to get back to $100k because they can't possibly lower they're standard of living to $43k. We make less than them, save more, and still live much too lavishly!
I just don't get it.
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Just had such an insane conversations with my coworkers that my head may explode. During this conversation I was basically told I'm lucky for choosing not to have kids yet, because there's absolutely NO WAY you can max out retirement accounts on $120k household income AND pay for 2 kids. One even said to plan on spending half your income on your kids.... this is also the same person who makes $105k/yr, is eligible to retire today and pull in a pension of $43k/yr, but that he'd need to get another job to get back to $100k because they can't possibly lower they're standard of living to $43k. We make less than them, save more, and still live much too lavishly!
I just don't get it.
I think the correct response to that would be, while smiling sweetly, "Well, maybe when everyone in your household grows up it will be easier to save money."
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I think the correct response to that would be, while smiling sweetly, "Well, maybe when everyone in your household grows up it will be easier to save money."
That reply is so British! lol
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M5, I'm living that exact scenario, as that's basically my household income and I have two kids. What a blow to find out my whole life is made up!
Although, if you're in a hetero relationship, probably some amount of luck is in play for not getting pregnant, so on some level it's a fair statement. Not the way this dude actually means, though.
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M5, I'm living that exact scenario, as that's basically my household income and I have two kids. What a blow to find out my whole life is made up!
Although, if you're in a hetero relationship, probably some amount of luck is in play for not getting pregnant, so on some level it's a fair statement. Not the way this dude actually means, though.
Haha, quite true. He later said he tracks all their spending except groceries. And he wants to continue turning a blind eye to it. Ding ding, I think we found a major source of the hemorrhaging!
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Haha, quite true. He later said he tracks all their spending except groceries. And he wants to continue turning a blind eye to it. Ding ding, I think we found a major source of the hemorrhaging!
Maybe this is an unfair generalization, but when I hear stuff along the lines of "I want my spouse to do [gender-normative chore] differently!" (in this case grocery shopping), I always imagine the conversation goes "Honey, you should change the way you do ['gender-normative chore]." "No, I like it my way, but if you want it different you could do it." "No, I can't do that! [Gender-normative chore] is for [other gender]!"
And then they still complain about it.
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Haha, quite true. He later said he tracks all their spending except groceries. And he wants to continue turning a blind eye to it. Ding ding, I think we found a major source of the hemorrhaging!
Maybe this is an unfair generalization, but when I hear stuff along the lines of "I want my spouse to do [gender-normative chore] differently!" (in this case grocery shopping), I always imagine the conversation goes "Honey, you should change the way you do ['gender-normative chore]." "No, I like it my way, but if you want it different you could do it." "No, I can't do that! [Gender-normative chore] is for [other gender]!"
And then they still complain about it.
Yeah. My husband both did the groceries and also did the vast majority of the meals. I had no complaints about his cooking (me and the kids enjoyed his meals) and his general shopping, but I didn't understand why we were spending so much (around 1K a month, not including going out to eat). I ended up having him save the receipts for a couple months. While there was some food waste (buying too much food, leftovers, produce being thrown out before being eaten) I think about 20-25% of our food costs were going to booze alone. No idea how much spent at the bar because he used his cash for that.
I've been stuck in an elevator twice. the first time it was in a hospital, but when I used the phone to call someone it was the same situation, where while I was in Durham the person who was going to respond to the call was in Raleigh (someone from another city had to come to respond). It wasn't too bad, around 45-50 minutes other than the other person in the elevator having a panic attack and saying things like we are going to die.
The 2nd time, another hospital (Va). We got stuck between floors. There was more of an immediate response, but they couldn't figure out how to raise/lower the elevator safely. There was at least 5 people in the elevator and we basically had to climb out with people on the other side puling us out. It was scary because I kept imagining what if the elevator dropped when I was climbing out and I got cut in half.
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I've been stuck in an elevator twice. the first time it was in a hospital, but when I used the phone to call someone it was the same situation, where while I was in Durham the person who was going to respond to the call was in Raleigh (someone from another city had to come to respond). It wasn't too bad, around 45-50 minutes other than the other person in the elevator having a panic attack and saying things like we are going to die.
You should have told them "as long as you die first, I'll have a fresh food supply" just for the entertainment value.
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I've been stuck in an elevator twice. the first time it was in a hospital, but when I used the phone to call someone it was the same situation, where while I was in Durham the person who was going to respond to the call was in Raleigh (someone from another city had to come to respond). It wasn't too bad, around 45-50 minutes other than the other person in the elevator having a panic attack and saying things like we are going to die.
You should have told them "as long as you die first, I'll have a fresh food supply" just for the entertainment value.
I have an stuck in elevator story.
I was working late and left after most of the building was empty. The elevator broke between floors, after a few minutes of pushing buttons I heard a voice on the call box.
Support Operator "Hello how can I help you?"
Me "The elevator broke can you help me get out of here"
Support Operator "Sure no problem, where are you?
Me "Elevator # 2 between 4th and 5th floor"
Support Operator "No I mean which city are you in and building address?"
Me "Oh ok I guess this is going to take a while."
I give the building address and she says she has to hang up and phone some other service number and will call me back. After about 30 minutes she calls me back and says the building operators have left for the day and I will have to wait until they are able to drive back to the office. She was able to call the building security who did end up talking through the door to me. No big deal for me, as I am not claustrophobic and other than being hungry from working late without eating dinner I was fine. A hour or two later, finally the elevator begins to move. It travels all the way up to the top floor and the doors open. I jump out and take the stairs all the way down to the ground floor. As I am heading out the building there are two security guards looking into an empty elevator looking confused talking on their radios saying. "The elevator is here on the main floor but nobody is in it!" I was almost out the door and then turned back to tell them it was me they were looking for. They were shocked how did I get out, and wondered why I was not stressed out. I take the stairs a lot more often now!
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The best part of that story is that I'm picturing it happening to Dilbert.
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I've been stuck in an elevator twice. the first time it was in a hospital, but when I used the phone to call someone it was the same situation, where while I was in Durham the person who was going to respond to the call was in Raleigh (someone from another city had to come to respond). It wasn't too bad, around 45-50 minutes other than the other person in the elevator having a panic attack and saying things like we are going to die.
Yes, stairs are great. I only take the elevator when I have a trolley or when injured, or like most stories above, when in an unknown building where I'm not familiar with the staircases.
You should have told them "as long as you die first, I'll have a fresh food supply" just for the entertainment value.
I have an stuck in elevator story.
I was working late and left after most of the building was empty. The elevator broke between floors, after a few minutes of pushing buttons I heard a voice on the call box.
Support Operator "Hello how can I help you?"
Me "The elevator broke can you help me get out of here"
Support Operator "Sure no problem, where are you?
Me "Elevator # 2 between 4th and 5th floor"
Support Operator "No I mean which city are you in and building address?"
Me "Oh ok I guess this is going to take a while."
I give the building address and she says she has to hang up and phone some other service number and will call me back. After about 30 minutes she calls me back and says the building operators have left for the day and I will have to wait until they are able to drive back to the office. She was able to call the building security who did end up talking through the door to me. No big deal for me, as I am not claustrophobic and other than being hungry from working late without eating dinner I was fine. A hour or two later, finally the elevator begins to move. It travels all the way up to the top floor and the doors open. I jump out and take the stairs all the way down to the ground floor. As I am heading out the building there are two security guards looking into an empty elevator looking confused talking on their radios saying. "The elevator is here on the main floor but nobody is in it!" I was almost out the door and then turned back to tell them it was me they were looking for. They were shocked how did I get out, and wondered why I was not stressed out. I take the stairs a lot more often now!
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I think it's a recipe for disaster. It might appear to make sense now, but circumstances change.
Are these five people single? Expecting to stay single forever? What happens when one of them enters into a long-term relationship? How does that factor into the plan?
What happens if one party doesn't meet their ongoing financial obligations re mortgage or utilities?
Who gets the "best" bedroom and who gets the "dud" room?
What happens if someone "needs" their equity and wants to sell and the rest don't?
What if someone decides to move out? Do they organise a roommate to cover their mortgage expense? Do YOU organise one? What if you disagree?
I suspect this kind of thing CAN work, but I reckon the likelihood of it not working must be pretty high...
Set it up as a corporation with shares doled out based on initial investment toward down payment and an operating fund. Corporation owns the house. Figure out a system for valuing bedrooms based on desirability (ie, take monthly expenses as rent paid to the corporation and assign 25% of costs to the "best" bedroom, 20% to the 3 equivalent bedrooms and 15% for the "dud". If there's still competition for the "best" bedroom, keep upping the percentage until only one person wants it. Same with the "dud" - but downward.
Selecting a room-mate to replace a departed family member would be majority vote based on shares.
Someone not meeting obligations would be evicted.
Someone "needing" their equity would have the option to sell shares in the corporation.
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Yeah! Why the need to talk with each other of you can just share-vote O.o
Sorry TomTX, you either have not read the part where they are close to each other, or you have no idea about psychology. If you do it your way - if those 5 are not of the rare sort you might be of - this is doomed to fail.
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Just had such an insane conversations with my coworkers that my head may explode. During this conversation I was basically told I'm lucky for choosing not to have kids yet, because there's absolutely NO WAY you can max out retirement accounts on $120k household income AND pay for 2 kids. One even said to plan on spending half your income on your kids.... this is also the same person who makes $105k/yr, is eligible to retire today and pull in a pension of $43k/yr, but that he'd need to get another job to get back to $100k because they can't possibly lower they're standard of living to $43k. We make less than them, save more, and still live much too lavishly!
I just don't get it.
At DH's work party, I'm chatting with the wives of two of DH's colleagues. Wife A is a hotshot lawyer, making a hefty 6 figures; wife B and I are both SAHMs. Our husbands are all roughly the same level/pay grade. Wife A says off handedly, in connection with something else, "...because it's impossible to live in this area on one income." Wife B and I just looked at each other.
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I was stuck in a elevator at work with a crazy person. We were having a meeting with a accreditation board and whether we passed or not was totally my responsibility after only working there for a year. I was late of course but they were understanding.
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I'm in the break room waiting in line to heat up my lunch.
Gov civilian likes to wear his pants couple of inches above his ankles, without socks, comes in.
I look down at his feet, then make eye contact. I know the guy somewhat, so I ask how that sockless ankle-show feels since we had a cold front that day, temps dropping 15-20F.
He says it feels good, he likes to wear his pants "European style". Then proceeds to state his footwear costs more than my "outfit". (I'm wearing a dress shirt, khakhis, shoes - normal office wear.)
I reply saying maybe he should upgrade his clothing to match his shoes. Meanwhile others in breakroom who overheard are giving him the eyeroll and weird faces behind his back.
One of the folks, who knows I'm gunning for FIRE (wife and I are close to FI but we love our jobs and employers and chill work/life balance) mentions when Mr-exposed-ankles and others are gone "you should have told him that you own a bunch of rentals." I said it wasn't worth it, we know we're dealing with a bonafide idiot, we don't need to re-prove a fact given that we have sufficient evidence.
Gov civilian has kid with ex, lives with GF and her kids, has issues saving, always well-dressed in the latest fashion. I'm only angry that my taxpayer funds support this numbnut who doesn't do anything technical but aspires to manage teams of technical contractors.
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I'm in the break room waiting in line to heat up my lunch.
Gov civilian likes to wear his pants couple of inches above his ankles, without socks, comes in.
I look down at his feet, then make eye contact. I know the guy somewhat, so I ask how that sockless ankle-show feels since we had a cold front that day, temps dropping 15-20F.
He says it feels good, he likes to wear his pants "European style". Then proceeds to state his footwear costs more than my "outfit". (I'm wearing a dress shirt, khakhis, shoes - normal office wear.)
I reply saying maybe he should upgrade his clothing to match his shoes. Meanwhile others in breakroom who overheard are giving him the eyeroll and weird faces behind his back.
One of the folks, who knows I'm gunning for FIRE (wife and I are close to FI but we love our jobs and employers and chill work/life balance) mentions when Mr-exposed-ankles and others are gone "you should have told him that you own a bunch of rentals." I said it wasn't worth it, we know we're dealing with a bonafide idiot, we don't need to re-prove a fact given that we have sufficient evidence.
Gov civilian has kid with ex, lives with GF and her kids, has issues saving, always well-dressed in the latest fashion. I'm only angry that my taxpayer funds support this numbnut who doesn't do anything technical but aspires to manage teams of technical contractors.
I had a similar experience (I’m a civilian employee) where I bumped into a friend of mine and his buddy (who is a total d-bag.) My friend made a comment of “nice outfit” at my clearance American Eagle khaki’s, gym shoes, and quarter-zip. Meanwhile, both are wearing “European style” pants with tight blazers, ties, super fitted shirts. My friends buddy had a cardigan sweater instead of a blazer. I said “Thanks, and why the F are you two dressed like that? We ain’t on Wall Street.” My buddy laughed. His friend did not. I left and kept living my life.
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As a European I have no clue what European style pants are…
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As a European I have no clue what European style pants are…
Here in Europe, I can guarantee that if the temps dropped that low (which they never do here) no ankles would be exposed. In fact, everyone would be rugged up in marshmallow style puffer coats and moon boots.
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As a European I have no clue what European style pants are…
Same here.. And when I googled it I don't feel like we even wear them at all?
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What do you think Europeans, is this Wiki true?
https://www.wikihow.com/Dress-European
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What do you think Europeans, is this Wiki true?
https://www.wikihow.com/Dress-European
Europe consists of 51 countries, some rich, some poor, some hot, some cold, some wet, some dry and a lot in between. There are 750 million people in Europe and about half of those are men. I think that's your answer… :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_population
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i bet the govt guy is following this guide:
https://www.fashionbeans.com/article/sockless-mankle-guide-men/
Another fucking useless word added to the lexicon: mankle
As someone who's been to various European countries, I have no clue what "European-style" pants/trousers is.
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i bet the govt guy is following this guide:
https://www.fashionbeans.com/article/sockless-mankle-guide-men/
Another fucking useless word added to the lexicon: mankle
As someone who's been to various European countries, I have no clue what "European-style" pants/trousers is.
There's a video on something called "pinroll." wtf.
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i bet the govt guy is following this guide:
https://www.fashionbeans.com/article/sockless-mankle-guide-men/
Another fucking useless word added to the lexicon: mankle
As someone who's been to various European countries, I have no clue what "European-style" pants/trousers is.
There's a video on something called "pinroll." wtf.
pinroll, or pinchroll was a thing in the late 80s in Canada, or at least in my town in Newfoundland. A couple years ago I saw someone in Europe (Italy) rocking that look so got all excited and did it, too. Brought back all kinds of memories of my youth.
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i bet the govt guy is following this guide:
https://www.fashionbeans.com/article/sockless-mankle-guide-men/
Another fucking useless word added to the lexicon: mankle
As someone who's been to various European countries, I have no clue what "European-style" pants/trousers is.
There's a video on something called "pinroll." wtf.
pinroll, or pinchroll was a thing in the late 80s in Canada, or at least in my town in Newfoundland. A couple years ago I saw someone in Europe (Italy) rocking that look so got all excited and did it, too. Brought back all kinds of memories of my youth.
Oh lord, we called that "pegging," and in the late 80s we would "peg" our acid-wash jeans and wear them with bright "push-down" socks (big legwarmer-like ankles) and high-top sneakers. SO trendy.
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What do you think Europeans, is this Wiki true?
https://www.wikihow.com/Dress-European
I just love how they consider Europe as one country. Very American-style topography :p
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i bet the govt guy is following this guide:
https://www.fashionbeans.com/article/sockless-mankle-guide-men/
Another fucking useless word added to the lexicon: mankle
As someone who's been to various European countries, I have no clue what "European-style" pants/trousers is.
There's a video on something called "pinroll." wtf.
pinroll, or pinchroll was a thing in the late 80s in Canada, or at least in my town in Newfoundland. A couple years ago I saw someone in Europe (Italy) rocking that look so got all excited and did it, too. Brought back all kinds of memories of my youth.
Oh lord, we called that "pegging," and in the late 80s we would "peg" our acid-wash jeans and wear them with bright "push-down" socks (big legwarmer-like ankles) and high-top sneakers. SO trendy.
to me pegging is something else entirely
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i bet the govt guy is following this guide:
https://www.fashionbeans.com/article/sockless-mankle-guide-men/
Another fucking useless word added to the lexicon: mankle
As someone who's been to various European countries, I have no clue what "European-style" pants/trousers is.
There's a video on something called "pinroll." wtf.
pinroll, or pinchroll was a thing in the late 80s in Canada, or at least in my town in Newfoundland. A couple years ago I saw someone in Europe (Italy) rocking that look so got all excited and did it, too. Brought back all kinds of memories of my youth.
Oh lord, we called that "pegging," and in the late 80s we would "peg" our acid-wash jeans and wear them with bright "push-down" socks (big legwarmer-like ankles) and high-top sneakers. SO trendy.
to me pegging is something else entirely
Yes. Keep in mind that we were 8–12 years old and very sheltered in a conservative Catholic school at the time.
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What do you think Europeans, is this Wiki true?
https://www.wikihow.com/Dress-European
Well, some of the "european" style drawings look like my work clothes, but I never considered that a classic "european" look?
Seriously, there's a big difference between the various regions of Europe. I'm in NW Europe which is very casual 'skinny and flats' territory, while Germany, the next country to the east, the general style is a lot less casual, and my impression is that the further south you go, the less casual people tend to dress - but of course, that doesn't mean every single person dresses like that. And I haven't visited every single country in Europe. The weather is also very different across the different countries in Europe, so that certainly plays a role. Where I live it doesn't get cold, but the climate is wet and windy and we walk and bike a lot. So there's no point in dressing up too much.
I wouldn't consider ankle length trousers a very European thing? As far as I know they are supposed to reach but not cover the shoe, not show a bare ankle.
The stereotypical American tourist can be described as wearing oversized and very casual clothing at an age where such 'casual' clothing is maybe not as common in my country. Oversized clothing isn't so common and people over a certain age don't usually wear t-shirts. Certainly not the people that are wealthy enough to be able to afford a trip across the Atlantic. It seems like American women
over a certain age are also more used to wearing trousers rather than skirts. But this is the type of tourists you'd recognize from a distance, of course there are many more people you'd never notice.
For American exchange students, it used to be the white shoes but these days everyone wears the same type of sneakers. Big hoodies with university logos seem to be something Americans particularly like, as well as manicured nails.
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I live in Spain and dress is very informal, jeans are acceptable wear even for bank and solicitor's staff. Vey young children are dressed formally and always have shoes on, allegedly a throwback to when being able to afford shoes for your children was a sign of relative affluence.
Come Easter though all the glad rags are out. Synthetic is the order of the day, strike a match nearby at your peril.
As a European I have no clue what European style pants are…
Here in Europe, I can guarantee that if the temps dropped that low (which they never do here) no ankles would be exposed. In fact, everyone would be rugged up in marshmallow style puffer coats and moon boots.
Only if it was between November and April though. Coats go on in November and stay on, even if we have a heatwave. Then they come off and stay off regardless of the weather.
In spring and autumn there are big disparities between the locals and more northern immigrants such as us. We dress along the lines of what level of warmth do I need if I'm sitting in direct sunshine in the hottest part of the day. The locals ask themselves what would be appropriate if they ended up sitting outside in the wind at 2am. So we'll be in t-shirts and they'll be in jumpers and scarves, all looking at each other as if the other is crazy.
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What do you think Europeans, is this Wiki true?
https://www.wikihow.com/Dress-European
I just love how they consider Europe as one country. Very American-style topography :p
This. :)
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I live in Spain and dress is very informal, jeans are acceptable wear even for bank and solicitor's staff. Vey young children are dressed formally and always have shoes on, allegedly a throwback to when being able to afford shoes for your children was a sign of relative affluence.
Come Easter though all the glad rags are out. Synthetic is the order of the day, strike a match nearby at your peril.
As a European I have no clue what European style pants are…
Here in Europe, I can guarantee that if the temps dropped that low (which they never do here) no ankles would be exposed. In fact, everyone would be rugged up in marshmallow style puffer coats and moon boots.
Only if it was between November and April though. Coats go on in November and stay on, even if we have a heatwave. Then they come off and stay off regardless of the weather.
Hahaha yes this is something I definitely recognize from my childhood! We got new summer clothes, shoes and coat at Easter and you're going to wear them no matter the weather. When Easter is early in the year it's not unusual that it's snowing or freezing in my country. We'd just wear thights with our summer outfit. I was raised Catholic so we went to Mass and visited a lot of family and you were supposed to dress in your Easter best.
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What do you think Europeans, is this Wiki true?
https://www.wikihow.com/Dress-European
Nope. (Having lived in Germany, and the UK, and having visited Spain, Italy and France for extended periods.)
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In spring and autumn there are big disparities between the locals and more northern immigrants such as us. We dress along the lines of what level of warmth do I need if I'm sitting in direct sunshine in the hottest part of the day. The locals ask themselves what would be appropriate if they ended up sitting outside in the wind at 2am. So we'll be in t-shirts and they'll be in jumpers and scarves, all looking at each other as if the other is crazy.
Haha, reminds me of my holiday in Tunisia in early spring. We winter-steeled Germans walked bare feeted through the mediteranean, at 17°C air temp, with only a thin pullover and jacket bound around the waist.
The locals in their scarfs and wollen hats and thick winter clothes would look at us as if calculating if they should run away from those clearly mad people :D
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In spring and autumn there are big disparities between the locals and more northern immigrants such as us. We dress along the lines of what level of warmth do I need if I'm sitting in direct sunshine in the hottest part of the day. The locals ask themselves what would be appropriate if they ended up sitting outside in the wind at 2am. So we'll be in t-shirts and they'll be in jumpers and scarves, all looking at each other as if the other is crazy.
Haha, reminds me of my holiday in Tunisia in early spring. We winter-steeled Germans walked bare feeted through the mediteranean, at 17°C air temp, with only a thin pullover and jacket bound around the waist.
The locals in their scarfs and wollen hats and thick winter clothes would look at us as if calculating if they should run away from those clearly mad people :D
I'm giggling at this because this is the same scenario as Canadians (snowbirds) in Florida in February. It's not cold, it's 18 with a high forecast of 25. ;-)
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In spring and autumn there are big disparities between the locals and more northern immigrants such as us. We dress along the lines of what level of warmth do I need if I'm sitting in direct sunshine in the hottest part of the day. The locals ask themselves what would be appropriate if they ended up sitting outside in the wind at 2am. So we'll be in t-shirts and they'll be in jumpers and scarves, all looking at each other as if the other is crazy.
Haha, reminds me of my holiday in Tunisia in early spring. We winter-steeled Germans walked bare feeted through the mediteranean, at 17°C air temp, with only a thin pullover and jacket bound around the waist.
The locals in their scarfs and wollen hats and thick winter clothes would look at us as if calculating if they should run away from those clearly mad people :D
I'm giggling at this because this is the same scenario as Canadians (snowbirds) in Florida in February. It's not cold, it's 18 with a high forecast of 25. ;-)
I feel the same when I look at asian visitors from very warm countries who are wearing coats and scarves on the hottest summer day in South Island NZ!
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I feel sorry for my coworker. Not so long ago he bought a new, fancy pellets oven for a lot of money. Now it turns out the oven doesn't work as well as he expected and he wants to sell it on the second hand market, where you usually can't get more than 60% or the new price.
Last year he bought a (second hand) car, not knowing what Norwegian winters are like, and bought one that didn't have 4x4 or spike tires. Now he has bought a replacement second hand car. Every time you buy a car, you pay a fee (600$ or so) to get a car registered in your name.
It seems to me that he made some unfortunate choices that cost him money now.
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It's bonus week and the leave/earnings statements went out Friday. It seems that many people don't realize that supplemental wages are withheld at a higher rate. There has been much wailing and gnashing of teeth about taxes on this bonus being withheld at ~34%. This has been the case for each of the last 10 years, so why it would be different this year, I don't know. And I imagine that by February many will have forgotten about it and won't realize they're getting it back in the form of a tax refund.
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In spring and autumn there are big disparities between the locals and more northern immigrants such as us. We dress along the lines of what level of warmth do I need if I'm sitting in direct sunshine in the hottest part of the day. The locals ask themselves what would be appropriate if they ended up sitting outside in the wind at 2am. So we'll be in t-shirts and they'll be in jumpers and scarves, all looking at each other as if the other is crazy.
Haha, reminds me of my holiday in Tunisia in early spring. We winter-steeled Germans walked bare feeted through the mediteranean, at 17°C air temp, with only a thin pullover and jacket bound around the waist.
The locals in their scarfs and wollen hats and thick winter clothes would look at us as if calculating if they should run away from those clearly mad people :D
We get those kinds of "crazy Northern" tourists here in Italy too. In the wintertime, the locals are wearing puffer jackets, scarves, even hats, boots etc. The tourists are wearing shorts, t-shirts and sandals with no jacket.
The inverse is also true though. A LOT of Northern Europeans (being an American expat here I have no horse in this race) seem completely clueless about how to dress in summer. They seem to think that showing as much of their (neon white) skin as possible is the way to go even during the middle of the day in July and August. I see so many lobster colored shoulders, faces, necks and chests on northern European tourists in summer. It looks miserable and I wonder about skin cancer rates up there in Northern climes. In 'mother goose' mode I've told some Northern European visitors about the wonders of covering your shoulders, neck and arms and wearing a sun hat during the day when it's hot out but they tend not to listen.
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Haha... no :) (It doesn't take very long, and as old as that elevator appears to be... I don't want to give any additional active loading to it!)
I have heard from a few people who have been stuck in elevators at work. Usually they get i touch with a person when they use the alarm function. But it can still take some hours to fix the elevator and get them out. Better bring along some food, drink and an empty bottle on the ride, just in case. Luckily I only have 2 staircases at work and I can walk them.
Years ago, I started a new job at a new client in a new city I had to commute to and from every weekend. I got dropped off at the client location and was introduced, then my customer contact left for the day. I popped into the elevator to go down to the cafeteria on the first floor. The elevator went straight to the basement and stopped working. The doors wouldn't open. No one heard me yell. I found a small door panel on the elevator wall down at ankle level. It had a old style phone headset in a fixed cradle with a very short cable. So I bent over very awkwardly, picked it up and said "Hello? I'm stuck in the elevator."
"Ok. Where are you?"
"I'm in the elevator stuck in the basement."
"No, where are you?"
"Huh?"
"What address are you at?"
"You mean you're not in the building?"
"No, we're a national service bureau."
At this point I start to panic because I don't know where I am and they don't either. I know the name of my client's company, but it's not their building. I'm just in a building in the DC metro area.
"Oh, let me give you the phone number of someone who does knows where I am."
I was in that elevator for just under an hour.
Now I always make sure I don't have the slightest urge to pee before I get in an elevator because that last 15 minutes was uncomfy.
You have to establish the pee corner early.
Yep!
Forgot to mention that the address of the building was not in the elevator. The certificate frame had a paper in it that said "Certificate on file in office." I went back and wrote the address on the inside of the door to the phone.
I always see those elevator signs that assure me that the certificate is on file somewhere else, and I think, "Yeah, sure it is..."
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It's bonus week and the leave/earnings statements went out Friday. It seems that many people don't realize that supplemental wages are withheld at a higher rate. There has been much wailing and gnashing of teeth about taxes on this bonus being withheld at ~34%. This has been the case for each of the last 10 years, so why it would be different this year, I don't know. And I imagine that by February many will have forgotten about it and won't realize they're getting it back in the form of a tax refund.
The sad thing is that all that drama is totally unnecessary!
If the bonus was coded as a one-time payment rather than a recurring one and the payroll software was coded correctly, it would correctly estimate the annual income and only withhold the correct amount.
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It's bonus week and the leave/earnings statements went out Friday. It seems that many people don't realize that supplemental wages are withheld at a higher rate. There has been much wailing and gnashing of teeth about taxes on this bonus being withheld at ~34%. This has been the case for each of the last 10 years, so why it would be different this year, I don't know. And I imagine that by February many will have forgotten about it and won't realize they're getting it back in the form of a tax refund.
The sad thing is that all that drama is totally unnecessary!
If the bonus was coded as a one-time payment rather than a recurring one and the payroll software was coded correctly, it would correctly estimate the annual income and only withhold the correct amount.
I thought that was an IRS thing? The two options from Pub 15 are to tax it at a flat 22% or to roll it into the taxable amount of the paycheck that it's paid with, which for most of us would push at least part of it into the 24% bucket.
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It's bonus week and the leave/earnings statements went out Friday. It seems that many people don't realize that supplemental wages are withheld at a higher rate. There has been much wailing and gnashing of teeth about taxes on this bonus being withheld at ~34%. This has been the case for each of the last 10 years, so why it would be different this year, I don't know. And I imagine that by February many will have forgotten about it and won't realize they're getting it back in the form of a tax refund.
The sad thing is that all that drama is totally unnecessary!
If the bonus was coded as a one-time payment rather than a recurring one and the payroll software was coded correctly, it would correctly estimate the annual income and only withhold the correct amount.
I thought that was an IRS thing? The two options from Pub 15 are to tax it at a flat 22% or to roll it into the taxable amount of the paycheck that it's paid with, which for most of us would push at least part of it into the 24% bucket.
Let's say I get paid $1000 weekly. So, on week 1, I earn $1000. The payroll software needs to calculate $1000 * 52 weeks / year, for an annual income of $52,000. It then looks up the income tax on $52,000 and divides that by 52 weeks to calculate how much income tax to withhold. This is very straightforward.
Now, let's add a $5000 bonus in week 50 and not tell the software it's a one-time payment. In addition, let's be lazy programmers. So, we take ($1000 wages + $5000 bonus) * 52 = $312,000 annual income. So, we look up the tax owed for that much income (which is in a much higher tax bracket) and divide by 52, and take out the calculated amount.
That's why the bonus money is withheld at such a high rate.
Now, let's tell the software it's a one time bonus and assume the programmers did a better job. We'll take $1000 wages * 52 weeks/per year = $52,000 + $5000 bonus for a $57,000 annual income. Look up the tax on that and then divide by 52 to get the withholding amount. The bonus won't be withheld at the $312,000 income rate so more of it will go home right away (and the tax refund will be smaller).
The above is still lazy programming, though. The reality is our payroll system should know how much we've paid the person for the year so far, so it should only be estimating based on the rest of the year. So, to calculate our annual income, we would look up how much the person has already been paid, add in what we're paying them this time, and then estimate the recurring payments for the rest of the year. That way, our estimate gets progressively better each pay period as the year goes on.
Plus, if someone has an uneven income, although the initial high income paycheck will be withheld at a high rate, the lower paychecks after it would be withheld at a lower rate to compensate. So the person would get more of their income earlier instead of having to wait for a refund.
Downside is if you changed jobs half-way thru the year, the 2nd job would be under-withholding for the remainder of the year, because it wouldn't know about the prior job's income.
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It's bonus week and the leave/earnings statements went out Friday. It seems that many people don't realize that supplemental wages are withheld at a higher rate. There has been much wailing and gnashing of teeth about taxes on this bonus being withheld at ~34%. This has been the case for each of the last 10 years, so why it would be different this year, I don't know. And I imagine that by February many will have forgotten about it and won't realize they're getting it back in the form of a tax refund.
The sad thing is that all that drama is totally unnecessary!
If the bonus was coded as a one-time payment rather than a recurring one and the payroll software was coded correctly, it would correctly estimate the annual income and only withhold the correct amount.
I thought that was an IRS thing? The two options from Pub 15 are to tax it at a flat 22% or to roll it into the taxable amount of the paycheck that it's paid with, which for most of us would push at least part of it into the 24% bucket.
Let's say I get paid $1000 weekly. So, on week 1, I earn $1000. The payroll software needs to calculate $1000 * 52 weeks / year, for an annual income of $52,000. It then looks up the income tax on $52,000 and divides that by 52 weeks to calculate how much income tax to withhold. This is very straightforward.
Now, let's add a $5000 bonus in week 50 and not tell the software it's a one-time payment. In addition, let's be lazy programmers. So, we take ($1000 wages + $5000 bonus) * 52 = $312,000 annual income. So, we look up the tax owed for that much income (which is in a much higher tax bracket) and divide by 52, and take out the calculated amount.
That's why the bonus money is withheld at such a high rate.
Now, let's tell the software it's a one time bonus and assume the programmers did a better job. We'll take $1000 wages * 52 weeks/per year = $52,000 + $5000 bonus for a $57,000 annual income. Look up the tax on that and then divide by 52 to get the withholding amount. The bonus won't be withheld at the $312,000 income rate so more of it will go home right away (and the tax refund will be smaller).
The above is still lazy programming, though. The reality is our payroll system should know how much we've paid the person for the year so far, so it should only be estimating based on the rest of the year. So, to calculate our annual income, we would look up how much the person has already been paid, add in what we're paying them this time, and then estimate the recurring payments for the rest of the year. That way, our estimate gets progressively better each pay period as the year goes on.
Plus, if someone has an uneven income, although the initial high income paycheck will be withheld at a high rate, the lower paychecks after it would be withheld at a lower rate to compensate. So the person would get more of their income earlier instead of having to wait for a refund.
Downside is if you changed jobs half-way thru the year, the 2nd job would be under-withholding for the remainder of the year, because it wouldn't know about the prior job's income.
I get all that. But what I'm saying is that the IRS specifies exactly how bonuses are taxed and the way my payroll office does it is correct as per the IRS instructions. So, the programming is correct, but the instructions are dumb.
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p15.pdf
Section 7 about Supplemental Wages
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Exactly what Sugaree says. The IRS doesn't ever want to risk under-withholding, and lots of people change jobs, which is why (1) filling out the W-4 perfectly will always result in over-withholding, and (2) why they specify bonus withholding the way they do.
If you set up a payroll software system the way Swordguy laid you, any companies who use it are at risk of IRS fines for underwithholding, and officers of the company can be found personally liable. https://www.irs.gov/compliance/criminal-investigation/employer-and-employee-responsibilities-employment-tax-enforcement
The way to get the result Swordguy proposes (and what I think most Mustachians would want) is to figure out your taxes ahead of time, back into the withholding needed to get there, and submit a W-4 accordingly.
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Exactly what Sugaree says. The IRS doesn't ever want to risk under-withholding, and lots of people change jobs, which is why (1) filling out the W-4 perfectly will always result in over-withholding, and (2) why they specify bonus withholding the way they do.
If you set up a payroll software system the way Swordguy laid you, any companies who use it are at risk of IRS fines for underwithholding, and officers of the company can be found personally liable. https://www.irs.gov/compliance/criminal-investigation/employer-and-employee-responsibilities-employment-tax-enforcement
The way to get the result Swordguy proposes (and what I think most Mustachians would want) is to figure out your taxes ahead of time, back into the withholding needed to get there, and submit a W-4 accordingly.
From what I've seen of the new W-4, it looks like that's what the IRS is trying to do.
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I feel sorry for my coworker. Not so long ago he bought a new, fancy pellets oven for a lot of money. Now it turns out the oven doesn't work as well as he expected and he wants to sell it on the second hand market, where you usually can't get more than 60% or the new price.
Last year he bought a (second hand) car, not knowing what Norwegian winters are like, and bought one that didn't have 4x4 or spike tires. Now he has bought a replacement second hand car. Every time you buy a car, you pay a fee (600$ or so) to get a car registered in your name.
It seems to me that he made some unfortunate choices that cost him money now.
That stinks for him, and he clearly is someone who could benefit from research rather than learning by experience. Many people suffer from the same affliction.
But what stuck out to me was the "pellets oven," because that is something I never heard of before. Now, thanks to you and google, I know.
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What do you think Europeans, is this Wiki true?
https://www.wikihow.com/Dress-European
Well, some of the "european" style drawings look like my work clothes, but I never considered that a classic "european" look?
Seriously, there's a big difference between the various regions of Europe. I'm in NW Europe which is very casual 'skinny and flats' territory, while Germany, the next country to the east, the general style is a lot less casual, and my impression is that the further south you go, the less casual people tend to dress - but of course, that doesn't mean every single person dresses like that. And I haven't visited every single country in Europe. The weather is also very different across the different countries in Europe, so that certainly plays a role. Where I live it doesn't get cold, but the climate is wet and windy and we walk and bike a lot. So there's no point in dressing up too much.
I wouldn't consider ankle length trousers a very European thing? As far as I know they are supposed to reach but not cover the shoe, not show a bare ankle.
The stereotypical American tourist can be described as wearing oversized and very casual clothing at an age where such 'casual' clothing is maybe not as common in my country. Oversized clothing isn't so common and people over a certain age don't usually wear t-shirts. Certainly not the people that are wealthy enough to be able to afford a trip across the Atlantic. It seems like American women
over a certain age are also more used to wearing trousers rather than skirts. But this is the type of tourists you'd recognize from a distance, of course there are many more people you'd never notice.
For American exchange students, it used to be the white shoes but these days everyone wears the same type of sneakers. Big hoodies with university logos seem to be something Americans particularly like, as well as manicured nails.
I can see this. I dress very casually (at work and elsewhere), and I'm 49. So, I can see where some countries might have middle-aged women be more put together. I don't really care to be put together.
I have never really liked skirts, even when in the military and required to wear them occasionally. In fact, I do not own a single skirt right now - and only one dress. I did notice more skirts in Copenhagen this summer (and they biked in them!) To be honest, I don't find dresses and skirts to really flatter me.
I don't have manicured nails, but when it is cold, my warm weather jacket is a hoodie, with an elementary school logo.
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Exactly what Sugaree says. The IRS doesn't ever want to risk under-withholding, and lots of people change jobs, which is why (1) filling out the W-4 perfectly will always result in over-withholding, and (2) why they specify bonus withholding the way they do.
If you set up a payroll software system the way Swordguy laid you, any companies who use it are at risk of IRS fines for underwithholding, and officers of the company can be found personally liable. https://www.irs.gov/compliance/criminal-investigation/employer-and-employee-responsibilities-employment-tax-enforcement
The way to get the result Swordguy proposes (and what I think most Mustachians would want) is to figure out your taxes ahead of time, back into the withholding needed to get there, and submit a W-4 accordingly.
From what I've seen of the new W-4, it looks like that's what the IRS is trying to do.
Thanks for the info! I had no idea there was a new W-4 in the works. Now I'm wondering if my state is going to respond, as they currently have a ban on claiming more than 10 exemptions.
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In spring and autumn there are big disparities between the locals and more northern immigrants such as us. We dress along the lines of what level of warmth do I need if I'm sitting in direct sunshine in the hottest part of the day. The locals ask themselves what would be appropriate if they ended up sitting outside in the wind at 2am. So we'll be in t-shirts and they'll be in jumpers and scarves, all looking at each other as if the other is crazy.
Haha, reminds me of my holiday in Tunisia in early spring. We winter-steeled Germans walked bare feeted through the mediteranean, at 17°C air temp, with only a thin pullover and jacket bound around the waist.
The locals in their scarfs and wollen hats and thick winter clothes would look at us as if calculating if they should run away from those clearly mad people :D
I'm giggling at this because this is the same scenario as Canadians (snowbirds) in Florida in February. It's not cold, it's 18 with a high forecast of 25. ;-)
A friend of mine just moved from Miami to Indianapolis. She commented the locals were wearing less in 10*F than the people in Miami wear at 65*F
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In spring and autumn there are big disparities between the locals and more northern immigrants such as us. We dress along the lines of what level of warmth do I need if I'm sitting in direct sunshine in the hottest part of the day. The locals ask themselves what would be appropriate if they ended up sitting outside in the wind at 2am. So we'll be in t-shirts and they'll be in jumpers and scarves, all looking at each other as if the other is crazy.
Haha, reminds me of my holiday in Tunisia in early spring. We winter-steeled Germans walked bare feeted through the mediteranean, at 17°C air temp, with only a thin pullover and jacket bound around the waist.
The locals in their scarfs and wollen hats and thick winter clothes would look at us as if calculating if they should run away from those clearly mad people :D
I'm giggling at this because this is the same scenario as Canadians (snowbirds) in Florida in February. It's not cold, it's 18 with a high forecast of 25. ;-)
A friend of mine just moved from Miami to Indianapolis. She commented the locals were wearing less in 10*F than the people in Miami wear at 65*F
That is -12C. Cold enough for a warm jacket, gloves, and a hat if it is windy. Certainly overkill for 18C. My apartment is at 19 and I have on shorts, a t-shirt and flipflops. No wind, of course. What do people in Miami wear at 65F?
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In spring and autumn there are big disparities between the locals and more northern immigrants such as us. We dress along the lines of what level of warmth do I need if I'm sitting in direct sunshine in the hottest part of the day. The locals ask themselves what would be appropriate if they ended up sitting outside in the wind at 2am. So we'll be in t-shirts and they'll be in jumpers and scarves, all looking at each other as if the other is crazy.
Haha, reminds me of my holiday in Tunisia in early spring. We winter-steeled Germans walked bare feeted through the mediteranean, at 17°C air temp, with only a thin pullover and jacket bound around the waist.
The locals in their scarfs and wollen hats and thick winter clothes would look at us as if calculating if they should run away from those clearly mad people :D
I'm giggling at this because this is the same scenario as Canadians (snowbirds) in Florida in February. It's not cold, it's 18 with a high forecast of 25. ;-)
A friend of mine just moved from Miami to Indianapolis. She commented the locals were wearing less in 10*F than the people in Miami wear at 65*F
That is -12C. Cold enough for a warm jacket, gloves, and a hat if it is windy. Certainly overkill for 18C. My apartment is at 19 and I have on shorts, a t-shirt and flipflops. No wind, of course. What do people in Miami wear at 65F?
It's all about relativity. A few years ago I went to Bonnaroo in Tennessee in June. It was 40C in the day and 20C at night. I grew up in Newfoundland where 20C at night is the nicest evening of the year. But in Tennessee, after it being 40C a few hours earlier, 20C felt pretty damned cold. Not hat and mitts weather...but certainly a hoodie and pants.
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In spring and autumn there are big disparities between the locals and more northern immigrants such as us. We dress along the lines of what level of warmth do I need if I'm sitting in direct sunshine in the hottest part of the day. The locals ask themselves what would be appropriate if they ended up sitting outside in the wind at 2am. So we'll be in t-shirts and they'll be in jumpers and scarves, all looking at each other as if the other is crazy.
Haha, reminds me of my holiday in Tunisia in early spring. We winter-steeled Germans walked bare feeted through the mediteranean, at 17°C air temp, with only a thin pullover and jacket bound around the waist.
The locals in their scarfs and wollen hats and thick winter clothes would look at us as if calculating if they should run away from those clearly mad people :D
I'm giggling at this because this is the same scenario as Canadians (snowbirds) in Florida in February. It's not cold, it's 18 with a high forecast of 25. ;-)
A friend of mine just moved from Miami to Indianapolis. She commented the locals were wearing less in 10*F than the people in Miami wear at 65*F
That is -12C. Cold enough for a warm jacket, gloves, and a hat if it is windy. Certainly overkill for 18C. My apartment is at 19 and I have on shorts, a t-shirt and flipflops. No wind, of course. What do people in Miami wear at 65F?
It's all about relativity. A few years ago I went to Bonnaroo in Tennessee in June. It was 40C in the day and 20C at night. I grew up in Newfoundland where 20C at night is the nicest evening of the year. But in Tennessee, after it being 40C a few hours earlier, 20C felt pretty damned cold. Not hat and mitts weather...but certainly a hoodie and pants.
Gotcha. Today was +2 and it felt warm.
In summer 20 is too hot at night, you can't get the house cooled off. ;-)
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I grew up in Newfoundland where 20C at night is the nicest evening of the year.
When I lived in Newfoundland, I used to think the local kids wearing shorts when it was 8 celsius were weird. Then I saw the Labrador kids wearing t-shirts in February!
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I live in Michigan. When it's 50 F in January, we wear shorts and t-shirts. When it's 50 F in July, we wear jeans and jackets.
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I once visited Cuba in February, from Ottawa (Canada). It was, I am told, an unusually cool winter. One morning, I was swimming in the outdoor pool while the local groundskeepers were doing their landscaping work. Wearing tuques. AFAIK, everyone was comfortable enough. Sure, the unheated pool was a little cool getting in (as pools generally are) but felt just fine once I had acclimated. It was probably in the neighbourhood of 22 C or thereabouts. And beautifully sunny.
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In spring and autumn there are big disparities between the locals and more northern immigrants such as us. We dress along the lines of what level of warmth do I need if I'm sitting in direct sunshine in the hottest part of the day. The locals ask themselves what would be appropriate if they ended up sitting outside in the wind at 2am. So we'll be in t-shirts and they'll be in jumpers and scarves, all looking at each other as if the other is crazy.
Haha, reminds me of my holiday in Tunisia in early spring. We winter-steeled Germans walked bare feeted through the mediteranean, at 17°C air temp, with only a thin pullover and jacket bound around the waist.
The locals in their scarfs and wollen hats and thick winter clothes would look at us as if calculating if they should run away from those clearly mad people :D
I'm giggling at this because this is the same scenario as Canadians (snowbirds) in Florida in February. It's not cold, it's 18 with a high forecast of 25. ;-)
A friend of mine just moved from Miami to Indianapolis. She commented the locals were wearing less in 10*F than the people in Miami wear at 65*F
That is -12C. Cold enough for a warm jacket, gloves, and a hat if it is windy. Certainly overkill for 18C. My apartment is at 19 and I have on shorts, a t-shirt and flipflops. No wind, of course. What do people in Miami wear at 65F?
A Canadian Goose Jacket, gloves, hat and scarf I think.
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What do people in Miami wear at 65F?
At 65, I'm in jeans and t-shirts if it's sunny. The first day it hits 55 however, DH has been known to break out scarves and gloves (though he still drives his Jeep without doors), and I've been known to break out my leather jacket that gets hidden in the back of the closet the rest of the year. Sunday morning it was 56, and our kids were thrilled to get out the "winter wear" and put on scarves to swing in the backyard. They still left their shoes off, though.
Today it was 64 and sunny when I took the kids to school, and it was glorious. I'm in jeans and a t-shirt, and kids were still in shorts/skirts and polo t-shirts (school uniform), btw.
In fact, I only realized this week (due to this cold spell) that my 10 year old daughter has no pants that actually fit her. She wears shorts and skirts all the time, and the last time she put on any pants was last winter. She's grown since then. Time for a trip to Goodwill.
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What do people in Miami wear at 65F?
West-Central Florida here. We wear lots of schadenfreude, like how people wear cheap perfume.
Love to see northerners suffer in our "mild" temps of low 80s (Freedom F units). If you can't take the heat, why da faq do y'all keep coming down here annually?
But your snowbird money is very welcome. Spend, birdy, spend.
But seriously, acclimatization takes 2-4 weeks generally to get used to completely different climes, so first impressions are hilarious.
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I once visited Cuba in February, from Ottawa (Canada). It was, I am told, an unusually cool winter. One morning, I was swimming in the outdoor pool while the local groundskeepers were doing their landscaping work. Wearing tuques. AFAIK, everyone was comfortable enough. Sure, the unheated pool was a little cool getting in (as pools generally are) but felt just fine once I had acclimated. It was probably in the neighbourhood of 22 C or thereabouts. And beautifully sunny.
We had a similar experience with an outdoor pool in Ft. Lauderdale. My wife was the only one swimming in the pool, on a sunny day. A cleaning lady was walking by with her cart, looked at her, and said "You must be a Northerner."
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Heard about a new fad last night. Took a while for this middle aged guy to "get it".
https://www.google.com/search?q=vsco girl (https://www.google.com/search?q=vsco girl)
Still not sure how old the girls can be - is this a high school thing, a college girl thing, or an adult thing? I heard about it at work.
https://youtu.be/HcaHMT9EABU?t=49 (https://youtu.be/HcaHMT9EABU?t=49)
Not sure if she is stuttering or the camera has problems or ???
Never mind, just realized its not really important. ;)
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Heard about a new fad last night. Took a while for this middle aged guy to "get it".
https://www.google.com/search?q=vsco girl (https://www.google.com/search?q=vsco girl)
Still not sure how old the girls can be - is this a high school thing, a college girl thing, or an adult thing? I heard about it at work.
https://youtu.be/HcaHMT9EABU?t=49 (https://youtu.be/HcaHMT9EABU?t=49)
Not sure if she is stuttering or the camera has problems or ???
Never mind, just realized its not really important. ;)
Sksksksk
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Heard about a new fad last night. Took a while for this middle aged guy to "get it".
https://www.google.com/search?q=vsco girl (https://www.google.com/search?q=vsco girl)
Still not sure how old the girls can be - is this a high school thing, a college girl thing, or an adult thing? I heard about it at work.
https://youtu.be/HcaHMT9EABU?t=49 (https://youtu.be/HcaHMT9EABU?t=49)
Not sure if she is stuttering or the camera has problems or ???
Never mind, just realized its not really important. ;)
My son is in 4th grade and I know of a group of 3 girls (2 in his class) who are into this thing, so it isn't just high school/college.
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Heard about a new fad last night. Took a while for this middle aged guy to "get it".
https://www.google.com/search?q=vsco girl (https://www.google.com/search?q=vsco girl)
Still not sure how old the girls can be - is this a high school thing, a college girl thing, or an adult thing? I heard about it at work.
https://youtu.be/HcaHMT9EABU?t=49 (https://youtu.be/HcaHMT9EABU?t=49)
Not sure if she is stuttering or the camera has problems or ???
Never mind, just realized its not really important. ;)
My son is in 4th grade and I know of a group of 3 girls (2 in his class) who are into this thing, so it isn't just high school/college.
My coworker’s 11 year old daughter dressed up as this for Halloween.
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Heard about a new fad last night. Took a while for this middle aged guy to "get it".
https://www.google.com/search?q=vsco girl (https://www.google.com/search?q=vsco girl)
Still not sure how old the girls can be - is this a high school thing, a college girl thing, or an adult thing? I heard about it at work.
https://youtu.be/HcaHMT9EABU?t=49 (https://youtu.be/HcaHMT9EABU?t=49)
Not sure if she is stuttering or the camera has problems or ???
Never mind, just realized its not really important. ;)
My son is in 4th grade and I know of a group of 3 girls (2 in his class) who are into this thing, so it isn't just high school/college.
The funny thing about it is...so, they dress like we did in the late 80s/early 90s, with some eco stuff thrown in? Right on.
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Heard about a new fad last night. Took a while for this middle aged guy to "get it".
https://www.google.com/search?q=vsco girl (https://www.google.com/search?q=vsco girl)
Still not sure how old the girls can be - is this a high school thing, a college girl thing, or an adult thing? I heard about it at work.
https://youtu.be/HcaHMT9EABU?t=49 (https://youtu.be/HcaHMT9EABU?t=49)
Not sure if she is stuttering or the camera has problems or ???
Never mind, just realized its not really important. ;)
My son is in 4th grade and I know of a group of 3 girls (2 in his class) who are into this thing, so it isn't just high school/college.
The funny thing about it is...so, they dress like we did in the late 80s/early 90s, with some eco stuff thrown in? Right on.
That was my impression, too. I bet they'd go nuts over Hypercolor shirts.
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I recently posted something for sale on our work buy/sell group for $5. One of my coworkers snapped it up. When I dropped it off at her office, she was like, “I don’t know if I have enough to pay you. I seriously hope we get paid soon. I have, like, no money. I don’t know where all my money goes.” I didn’t say anything, but she’s frequently buying useless things such as what I was selling on the buy/sell groups, she’s often signing up for the employee shopping trips, she goes to all the girls night outs and the band nights and holiday parties/dinners. Today, she asked whether her electricity would get turned off if she misses a payment.
I’m not sure how much she makes, but it’s probably in the $60k-80k range after tax. And housing and health insurance are provided by the company. We expats literally have no major expenses. Even our international flights home are covered. Our biggest expense is probably food, which can be as cheap or as expensive as you make it.
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I recently posted something for sale on our work buy/sell group for $5. One of my coworkers snapped it up. When I dropped it off at her office, she was like, “I don’t know if I have enough to pay you. I seriously hope we get paid soon. I have, like, no money. I don’t know where all my money goes.” I didn’t say anything, but she’s frequently buying useless things such as what I was selling on the buy/sell groups, she’s often signing up for the employee shopping trips, she goes to all the girls night outs and the band nights and holiday parties/dinners. Today, she asked whether her electricity would get turned off if she misses a payment.
I’m not sure how much she makes, but it’s probably in the $60k-80k range after tax. And housing and health insurance are provided by the company. We expats literally have no major expenses. Even our international flights home are covered. Our biggest expense is probably food, which can be as cheap or as expensive as you make it.
Um... just to be sure:
She makes 5K a month, has practically no hardcoded living costs beside food AND STILL RUNS OUT OF MONEY???
How do you even do that?? I would find myself hard pressed to dish out 5K in a year for other stuff than living. I mean even if you only eat ordered food that is still only 10%. A year's clothing is 10% of that monthly income. A long holiday 50%. A new gaming rig is 20%-30% of that. Even if you are a stupid Apple slave you can't realistically get to one month worth of money there with buying a macbook and a new top phone.
How?
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I recently posted something for sale on our work buy/sell group for $5. One of my coworkers snapped it up. When I dropped it off at her office, she was like, “I don’t know if I have enough to pay you. I seriously hope we get paid soon. I have, like, no money. I don’t know where all my money goes.” I didn’t say anything, but she’s frequently buying useless things such as what I was selling on the buy/sell groups, she’s often signing up for the employee shopping trips, she goes to all the girls night outs and the band nights and holiday parties/dinners. Today, she asked whether her electricity would get turned off if she misses a payment.
I’m not sure how much she makes, but it’s probably in the $60k-80k range after tax. And housing and health insurance are provided by the company. We expats literally have no major expenses. Even our international flights home are covered. Our biggest expense is probably food, which can be as cheap or as expensive as you make it.
Um... just to be sure:
She makes 5K a month, has practically no hardcoded living costs beside food AND STILL RUNS OUT OF MONEY???
How do you even do that?? I would find myself hard pressed to dish out 5K in a year for other stuff than living. I mean even if you only eat ordered food that is still only 10%. A year's clothing is 10% of that monthly income. A long holiday 50%. A new gaming rig is 20%-30% of that. Even if you are a stupid Apple slave you can't realistically get to one month worth of money there with buying a macbook and a new top phone.
How?
Yeah, I have no idea. Oh, and work gives us a MacBook so we don’t need to buy that either. I guess if you eat out everyday for lunch and dinner only at Western restaurants you can spend around $20/meal/person, so maybe around $100 per day for her and her family? So that could be up to $3000 per month, theoretically. Imported wine is also expensive and some of these folks drink a $50 bottle a day.
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I heard one. Different department, same organization as I work for.
That department is hiring a new employee. They are flying in three candidates on different dates for the final round of interviews.
The candidate pays for their own flight and then they are reimbursed. Yes, it could be done differently but I suspect there is a reason and this might be it.
Candidate B asks if the org can front the flight money. They can't afford to.
Org: Nope b/c rules.
Candidate B suggests that they will use their current employer's credit card and then Org can reimburse the current employer for the flight! Org isn't keen on this either.
I wonder if candidate B's current employer is event aware that candidate B is job searching. Wouldn't that be a way to learn!
Apparently the flight isn't a long one and thus less expensive that others, candidate can't borrow any money from friends or family, can't put it on a credit card, nor can they drive to the interview. The drive would be several hours but perfectly doable if they had a vehicle in reasonable condition.
Because they can't overcome this hurdle, they will probably eliminate themselves from the interview schedule.
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I heard one. Different department, same organization as I work for.
That department is hiring a new employee. They are flying in three candidates on different dates for the final round of interviews.
The candidate pays for their own flight and then they are reimbursed. Yes, it could be done differently but I suspect there is a reason and this might be it.
Candidate B asks if the org can front the flight money. They can't afford to.
Org: Nope b/c rules.
Candidate B suggests that they will use their current employer's credit card and then Org can reimburse the current employer for the flight! Org isn't keen on this either.
I wonder if candidate B's current employer is event aware that candidate B is job searching. Wouldn't that be a way to learn!
Apparently the flight isn't a long one and thus less expensive that others, candidate can't borrow any money from friends or family, can't put it on a credit card, nor can they drive to the interview. The drive would be several hours but perfectly doable if they had a vehicle in reasonable condition.
Because they can't overcome this hurdle, they will probably eliminate themselves from the interview schedule.
Wow that is amazing. I work with some people who are reluctant to pay for work things up front to be reimbursed later but I assumed that this was just an emotional thing not the fact that they had maxed out their credit cards, had no savings and couldn't borrow money from anyone.
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Open enrollment at work. Many employees are complaining that our employer is not offering high premium low deductible plans. The office does offer an HSA plan at no cost to employee.
I overhear my assistant complain about current plan options and their costs. I told her to sign up for the free HSA plan. As expected, she complained of the high out of pocket expenses associated with plan. I told her to calculate the expected high deductible to what she could be depositing in her HSA account. Had no idea what I was talking about. Also mentioned that she can't afford the high deductible.
She leaves this week to her yearly trip to Spain and north Africa. Eats out every meal and is always going to extravagant weekend trips. Although she's 40, she still lives with her parents because she says housing is too expensive to move out.
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Open enrollment at work. Many employees are complaining that our employer is not offering high premium low deductible plans. The office does offer an HSA plan at no cost to employee.
I overhear my assistant complain about current plan options and their costs. I told her to sign up for the free HSA plan. As expected, she complained of the high out of pocket expenses associated with plan. I told her to calculate the expected high deductible to what she could be depositing in her HSA account. Had no idea what I was talking about. Also mentioned that she can't afford the high deductible.
She leaves this week to her yearly trip to Spain and north Africa. Eats out every meal and is always going to extravagant weekend trips. Although she's 40, she still lives with her parents because she says housing is too expensive to move out.
Some plans make absolutely no sense. The high premium low deductible plan offered to us is so expensive that you will never come out ahead. Annual premiums are more than the out of pocket max on cheaper plans with the same system. Of course this is affected by how much the employer share is, but perhaps someone would choose it if they know they are only going to pay 1-2 months premiums for a very expensive procedure and then quit?
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...but perhaps someone would choose it if they know they are only going to pay 1-2 months premiums for a very expensive procedure and then quit?
Did this once. Insurance company went out of business so I had open enrollment for 3 months then another open enrollment. Went HDHP to platinum plan then back to HDHP. Racked up $40k+ in medical bills including every blood test, allergy test imaginable, and had surgery to correct a deviated septum. Cost me about $3000 in premiums.
Turns out my testosterone levels are fine and I’m not allergic to anything. Also can Sleep with my mouth closed now.
Somewhere out there is a line in an accounting spreadsheet with a red number next to my name indicating the loss the insurance company took by insuring me.
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I heard one. Different department, same organization as I work for.
That department is hiring a new employee. They are flying in three candidates on different dates for the final round of interviews.
The candidate pays for their own flight and then they are reimbursed. Yes, it could be done differently but I suspect there is a reason and this might be it.
Candidate B asks if the org can front the flight money. They can't afford to.
Org: Nope b/c rules.
Candidate B suggests that they will use their current employer's credit card and then Org can reimburse the current employer for the flight! Org isn't keen on this either.
I wonder if candidate B's current employer is event aware that candidate B is job searching. Wouldn't that be a way to learn!
Apparently the flight isn't a long one and thus less expensive that others, candidate can't borrow any money from friends or family, can't put it on a credit card, nor can they drive to the interview. The drive would be several hours but perfectly doable if they had a vehicle in reasonable condition.
Because they can't overcome this hurdle, they will probably eliminate themselves from the interview schedule.
Wow that is amazing. I work with some people who are reluctant to pay for work things up front to be reimbursed later but I assumed that this was just an emotional thing not the fact that they had maxed out their credit cards, had no savings and couldn't borrow money from anyone.
I work with a bunch of people who can't imagine that I would want to/be able to pay for my own, very infrequent, business travel and then be reimbursed.
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I heard one. Different department, same organization as I work for.
That department is hiring a new employee. They are flying in three candidates on different dates for the final round of interviews.
The candidate pays for their own flight and then they are reimbursed. Yes, it could be done differently but I suspect there is a reason and this might be it.
Candidate B asks if the org can front the flight money. They can't afford to.
Org: Nope b/c rules.
Candidate B suggests that they will use their current employer's credit card and then Org can reimburse the current employer for the flight! Org isn't keen on this either.
I wonder if candidate B's current employer is event aware that candidate B is job searching. Wouldn't that be a way to learn!
Apparently the flight isn't a long one and thus less expensive that others, candidate can't borrow any money from friends or family, can't put it on a credit card, nor can they drive to the interview. The drive would be several hours but perfectly doable if they had a vehicle in reasonable condition.
Because they can't overcome this hurdle, they will probably eliminate themselves from the interview schedule.
Wow that is amazing. I work with some people who are reluctant to pay for work things up front to be reimbursed later but I assumed that this was just an emotional thing not the fact that they had maxed out their credit cards, had no savings and couldn't borrow money from anyone.
Last time I traveled overnight for work I traveled with three other coworkers. I put the whole thing on my credit card for the points and convenience. Rather than wait for them to get it together and make the arrangements I could choose a comfortable place to stay close to our destination which I did.
Employer reimbursed each person individually and each person passed the money to me - except one. Two months later the highest paid member of that trip as yet to reimburse me though they have publicly promised they would. A couple of hundred bucks more or less. That person is over me on the pecking order.
I won't take the initiative to be efficient again.
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I can just imagine the next trip. Sorry, my supervisor can't join us for this meeting with you the project partner b/c they can't front their their portion of the hotel bill. So, let's get this meeting started...
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I have never worked for a company that allowed business travel or purchase to be put on a personal credit cArd. I find that whole concept to be weird.
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I have never worked for a company that allowed business travel or purchase to be put on a personal credit cArd. I find that whole concept to be weird.
Academia, maybe? I was always responsible for covering my own travel expenses, which were then reimbursed by the department. They didn't care how I originally paid, as long as I presented valid receipts.
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I have never worked for a company that allowed business travel or purchase to be put on a personal credit cArd. I find that whole concept to be weird.
Academia, maybe? I was always responsible for covering my own travel expenses, which were then reimbursed by the department. They didn't care how I originally paid, as long as I presented valid receipts.
This is definitely changing, in my experience. At least in public institutions. It’s moving toward having to pay with a university corporate card, in your name. (And at least in some cases, a centralized travel office through which you book the travel, I guess so you don’t go off and spend mad money on luxury digs, first-class tickets, etc.)
That travel is then reimbursed, through a ridiculously bureaucratic process that easily erases any intended savings.
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I have never worked for a company that allowed business travel or purchase to be put on a personal credit cArd. I find that whole concept to be weird.
It's pretty normal I think. It's also a great way to get free travel reward points, as long as you think the company is solvent enough to reimburse you. I probably wouldn't want to count on reimbursement from a company to fly down for an interview. That's placing a lot of trust in a company you don't even work for.
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I have never worked for a company that allowed business travel or purchase to be put on a personal credit cArd. I find that whole concept to be weird.
Academia, maybe? I was always responsible for covering my own travel expenses, which were then reimbursed by the department. They didn't care how I originally paid, as long as I presented valid receipts.
This is definitely changing, in my experience. At least in public institutions. It’s moving toward having to pay with a university corporate card, in your name. (And at least in some cases, a centralized travel office through which you book the travel, I guess so you don’t go off and spend mad money on luxury digs, first-class tickets, etc.)
That travel is then reimbursed, through a ridiculously bureaucratic process that easily erases any intended savings.
A corporate card in your name may well be a fancy way to say "A card in my name, whose debts I am personally responsible for."
If your company doesn't pay, you get to. I had a friend who had that happen. You might want to check the fine print on that card agreement.
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My corporate cards have never shown up on my credit reports.
I was told it was a way of reducing fraud
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I have never worked for a company that allowed business travel or purchase to be put on a personal credit cArd. I find that whole concept to be weird.
Academia, maybe? I was always responsible for covering my own travel expenses, which were then reimbursed by the department. They didn't care how I originally paid, as long as I presented valid receipts.
This is definitely changing, in my experience. At least in public institutions. It’s moving toward having to pay with a university corporate card, in your name. (And at least in some cases, a centralized travel office through which you book the travel, I guess so you don’t go off and spend mad money on luxury digs, first-class tickets, etc.)
That travel is then reimbursed, through a ridiculously bureaucratic process that easily erases any intended savings.
A corporate card in your name may well be a fancy way to say "A card in my name, whose debts I am personally responsible for."
If your company doesn't pay, you get to. I had a friend who had that happen. You might want to check the fine print on that card agreement.
I worked for a company that switched from having us use our own cards and be reimbursed. Which, we were all fine with because we spent a lot (I was averaging around $100k/year in expenses) and it resulted in us collecting the rewards (I received about $2k/year). To exactly the situation you describe. We retained all of the risk and lost any of the rewards...
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A co-worker talking in lunch room to a group of us about gambling at the local casino.
co-worker: I don't go to the casino on Fridays or the weekend the machines never pay out on those days. I only go now on Thursdays.... (lots of details on which machines pay out and how to pick the right ones)… if I win the 10,000 jackpot I would be able to payoff three of my credit cards.
I couldn't help myself and said: Paying off the credit cards would be like winning 19% every month.
Co-worker sat with a blank stare for a few seconds then changed the topic to talk about something else....sometimes I should just keep my mouth shut!
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I have never worked for a company that allowed business travel or purchase to be put on a personal credit cArd. I find that whole concept to be weird.
Academia, maybe? I was always responsible for covering my own travel expenses, which were then reimbursed by the department. They didn't care how I originally paid, as long as I presented valid receipts.
This is definitely changing, in my experience. At least in public institutions. It’s moving toward having to pay with a university corporate card, in your name. (And at least in some cases, a centralized travel office through which you book the travel, I guess so you don’t go off and spend mad money on luxury digs, first-class tickets, etc.)
That travel is then reimbursed, through a ridiculously bureaucratic process that easily erases any intended savings.
A corporate card in your name may well be a fancy way to say "A card in my name, whose debts I am personally responsible for."
If your company doesn't pay, you get to. I had a friend who had that happen. You might want to check the fine print on that card agreement.
Oh, yeah, that's definitely the case.
But it's a card that you can only use to pay the things they allow you to buy.
And you don't get any of the associated miles, etc. for anything you purchase.
And if you happen to use your own card instead, you get yelled at by pompous accounting types and you have to go around and around with them as they threaten not to reimburse you.
It's a great system, really.
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Anyone remember Diner's Club credit cards? I was given a corporate version in my first professional position to use for travel (back then we had to do all of this ourselves). We had to pay the bill each month and the company paid us for our expenses. Another fellow in my entrance "class" I ended up working with on the same team. When he got his card, he went out and furnished his whole apartment, furniture, tv, all of it, under the assumption that it was like every other credit card and he could carry a balance. Not so, like Amex, needs to be paid in full each month. Bill came do, he tried to make a $50 payment or whatever, CC company contacts our employer, etc.......I'm not sure what the final outcome was, I assume they paid it and withheld earnings until paid. I would've fired the idiot, but they didn't. What a first impression, this happened the first billing cycle after being hired.
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My current employer has a "corporate card" that must be used for travel for at least the airline and hotel, and generally for conferences and similar expenses. It's in the employee's name and appears on his or her own credit report. But of course there aren't any goodies like air miles or rebates. After an expense is charged, there's a process to apply for reimbursement (which is usually pretty prompt) and the reimbursement generally arrives before the bill is due. The normal thing for people to do is to use the reimbursement to pay the bill. The per diem is generous enough for a reasonably frugal person to come out ahead. But apparently enough people tried to carry a balance on *top* of their reimbursement *and* the per diem, and it was common enough for Corporate to throw a snit fit over it and start forwarding late payment or balance carrying information to the employees' managers.
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I have never worked for a company that allowed business travel or purchase to be put on a personal credit cArd. I find that whole concept to be weird.
Academia, maybe? I was always responsible for covering my own travel expenses, which were then reimbursed by the department. They didn't care how I originally paid, as long as I presented valid receipts.
This is definitely changing, in my experience. At least in public institutions. It’s moving toward having to pay with a university corporate card, in your name. (And at least in some cases, a centralized travel office through which you book the travel, I guess so you don’t go off and spend mad money on luxury digs, first-class tickets, etc.)
That travel is then reimbursed, through a ridiculously bureaucratic process that easily erases any intended savings.
This varies depending on the place, I think. Well, all except the ridiculous bureaucratic process – that's universal. But I just filed for reimbursement for travel from my public institution today. There's no way to get a university card. The options are use a personal credit card or petition the bursars office to physically cut a check ahead of time.
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As always, Godwin's Law applies even to expense reports.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4Murq5x_pw
You nearly feel for the guy, until...... you realize who you're feeling sorry for.
German speakers would understand the actual wording, and not get the impact of the subtitles.
BTW. The movie from which it is taken, Downfall, is a really good movie.
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My current employer has a "corporate card" that must be used for travel for at least the airline and hotel, and generally for conferences and similar expenses. It's in the employee's name and appears on his or her own credit report. But of course there aren't any goodies like air miles or rebates. After an expense is charged, there's a process to apply for reimbursement (which is usually pretty prompt) and the reimbursement generally arrives before the bill is due. The normal thing for people to do is to use the reimbursement to pay the bill. The per diem is generous enough for a reasonably frugal person to come out ahead. But apparently enough people tried to carry a balance on *top* of their reimbursement *and* the per diem, and it was common enough for Corporate to throw a snit fit over it and start forwarding late payment or balance carrying information to the employees' managers.
My jobs lets you pay flights, hotels and conferences yourself and will only reimburse after the event. A year ago I had an event which was quite pricey, in the range of 1000$. Of course I had no problem paying it, but I found it a bit unreasonable to pay this large amount 2-3 months ahead and get reimbursed to much later. When I asked the payment department, they said I could ask for an advance in my travel bill, which I did.
There is also a special credit card that we can order, with which as can pay flights and pay them after reimbursement, whenever that may be. I haven't bothered to get that card, as I don't travel so often.
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My current employer has a "corporate card" that must be used for travel for at least the airline and hotel, and generally for conferences and similar expenses. It's in the employee's name and appears on his or her own credit report. But of course there aren't any goodies like air miles or rebates. After an expense is charged, there's a process to apply for reimbursement (which is usually pretty prompt) and the reimbursement generally arrives before the bill is due. The normal thing for people to do is to use the reimbursement to pay the bill. The per diem is generous enough for a reasonably frugal person to come out ahead. But apparently enough people tried to carry a balance on *top* of their reimbursement *and* the per diem, and it was common enough for Corporate to throw a snit fit over it and start forwarding late payment or balance carrying information to the employees' managers.
My jobs lets you pay flights, hotels and conferences yourself and will only reimburse after the event. A year ago I had an event which was quite pricey, in the range of 1000$. Of course I had no problem paying it, but I found it a bit unreasonable to pay this large amount 2-3 months ahead and get reimbursed to much later. When I asked the payment department, they said I could ask for an advance in my travel bill, which I did.
There is also a special credit card that we can order, with which as can pay flights and pay them after reimbursement, whenever that may be. I haven't bothered to get that card, as I don't travel so often.
You might ask the conference if you can register well in advance, but pay upon arrival. I just did this for a conference - and while it was a bit of a hassle, it meant I wasn't carrying the expense for months in advance.
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I work for the federal government and we have travel cards that show up on our credit reports and they must be used for all flights and hotels. The limit on the card is set by your credit score and I know of at least one coworker who got approved for a travel card, but the limit was something like $100 so he couldn’t actually use it. Our reimbursement goes directly onto the card and I had an issue last year where I promptly submitted my voucher for reimbursement, but my supervisor never went into the system and approved it, so the bill on the card didn’t get paid. I had never even received a bill before because I was so used to it being paid before a bill came out. The bill went to an old address, was forwarded to my new address, and showed up after the due date! I was nervous that it would impact my credit score but luckily it never showed up as late on my credit report.
Another coworker got in trouble because we are only allowed to use the cards for work sponsored travel, but he wanted to buy new golf clubs without his wife knowing so he used the travel card and then planned to pay the bill himself once it came. The finance department caught him and he got into trouble and almost lost his travel card over it.
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I heard one. Different department, same organization as I work for.
That department is hiring a new employee. They are flying in three candidates on different dates for the final round of interviews.
The candidate pays for their own flight and then they are reimbursed. Yes, it could be done differently but I suspect there is a reason and this might be it.
Candidate B asks if the org can front the flight money. They can't afford to.
Org: Nope b/c rules.
Candidate B suggests that they will use their current employer's credit card and then Org can reimburse the current employer for the flight! Org isn't keen on this either.
I wonder if candidate B's current employer is event aware that candidate B is job searching. Wouldn't that be a way to learn!
Apparently the flight isn't a long one and thus less expensive that others, candidate can't borrow any money from friends or family, can't put it on a credit card, nor can they drive to the interview. The drive would be several hours but perfectly doable if they had a vehicle in reasonable condition.
Because they can't overcome this hurdle, they will probably eliminate themselves from the interview schedule.
This happens often in the medical field when trying to interview new residents and such that have maxed out credit cards and massive student loans.
However, I'm guessing this isn't the case....
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I work for the federal government and we have travel cards that show up on our credit reports and they must be used for all flights and hotels. The limit on the card is set by your credit score and I know of at least one coworker who got approved for a travel card, but the limit was something like $100 so he couldn’t actually use it. Our reimbursement goes directly onto the card and I had an issue last year where I promptly submitted my voucher for reimbursement, but my supervisor never went into the system and approved it, so the bill on the card didn’t get paid. I had never even received a bill before because I was so used to it being paid before a bill came out. The bill went to an old address, was forwarded to my new address, and showed up after the due date! I was nervous that it would impact my credit score but luckily it never showed up as late on my credit report.
[/b]Another coworker got in trouble because we are only allowed to use the cards for work sponsored travel, but he wanted to buy new golf clubs without his wife knowing so he used the travel card and then planned to pay the bill himself once it came. The finance department caught him and he got into trouble and almost lost his travel card over it.
We've had two different people get busted for that. One lost his job and the other just barely saved hers, but got 30 days off without pay. In each case, they claimed that they grabbed the wrong card out of their wallet. I keep mine locked up away from all my other cards because my husband's bad about grabbing a card out of my wallet and using it without checking to see which one we're supposed to be using for points this month.
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Annual enrollment for benefits is here, so we had to listen to the conference call with the benefits person.
"The HSA account is money you keep! It rolls over every year, and you can earn interest in the account. Now you'll never get rich off the little bit of interest, but every bit helps!"
I'm rolling my eyes because anything over $1,000 you can invest in mutual funds (including VTSAX). The person completely missed one of the best selling points of the HSA account.
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Another coworker got in trouble because we are only allowed to use the cards for work sponsored travel, but he wanted to buy new golf clubs without his wife knowing so he used the travel card and then planned to pay the bill himself once it came. The finance department caught him and he got into trouble and almost lost his travel card over it.
So if you get the travel card revoked, are you "forced" to use a personal card when you travel for work?
;)
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Another coworker got in trouble because we are only allowed to use the cards for work sponsored travel, but he wanted to buy new golf clubs without his wife knowing so he used the travel card and then planned to pay the bill himself once it came. The finance department caught him and he got into trouble and almost lost his travel card over it.
So if you get the travel card revoked, are you "forced" to use a personal card when you travel for work?
;)
Good thought but no, you just aren't able to travel. If travel is pertinent to your job I guess you would be seen as not fulfilling your duties and you would have a whole different set of problems.
For example, my card expired and I didn't know it until I tried to book my travel. We were worried the new card wouldn't come in time and I wanted to use my personal card but I wasn't allowed. If the card didn't come in time I just wouldn't have gone/it would've been postponed until my new card got there.
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Annual enrollment for benefits is here, so we had to listen to the conference call with the benefits person.
"The HSA account is money you keep! It rolls over every year, and you can earn interest in the account. Now you'll never get rich off the little bit of interest, but every bit helps!"
I'm rolling my eyes because anything over $1,000 you can invest in mutual funds (including VTSAX). The person completely missed one of the best selling points of the HSA account.
Nitpick: depends on the terms of the account. We have to hold $2000 in cash in our HSA (although maybe that's because it covers two people).
But yes, it is ridiculous that the benefits person wouldn't talk that up as much as possible. Husband's didn't either, and we'd had a bad experience with a FSA so at first we only had the minimum deducted for his HSA. As soon as I did some digging and we understood the difference, we maxed out the HSA and started investing.
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Our HSA charges a monthly fee if you don't hold $3000 cash. It grates my teeth to look at it just sitting there, and ticks me off to pay a fee on my dollars. For the $2.50 boon they syphon off my account, they get one irritated customer.
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Our HSA charges a monthly fee if you don't hold $3000 cash. It grates my teeth to look at it just sitting there, and ticks me off to pay a fee on my dollars. For the $2.50 boon they syphon off my account, they get one irritated customer.
If the fee is $2.50 regardless of how far below $3,000 the cash balance is, you might still be better off to invest all of the money. On average, you should be able to earn ~$20/month on that $3k.
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Yesterday (the last Friday of the month) CW asks if I can follow up on their reimbursement - won't be able to pay bills due on the 1st without it. I followed up as asked, but couldn't help looking at them wide eyed. If you haven't received the money by noon on Friday, it's not going to be deposited until Monday at least. I was almost tempted to offer a personal loan. There have been many clues lately that they are struggling.
Such as when we all decided to give a few dollars towards a gift, and they couldn't do it for weeks until a tiny receipt was reimbursed.
They also told me how much their car insurance plus payment is monthly (due to tickets, high end SUV, and someone borrowing it and getting another ticket that can't be traced back to the correct person) - it's more than I pay in a year!
The temptation to loan money was brief - they are not responsible enough to pay it back. Near daily lattes and an income that is double mine are both no help.
On the other hand, I had 5 reimbursements that I let pile up for 2 months so I could submit them all at once using only 1 stamp. I was out of pocket $1000s, but have the flexibility to almost forget about it.
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A coworker told him how interested he is in FIRE.
Like, he wouldn't stop talking about it.
After listening for a while, I asked him what he was doing about it. "Ahhh, that's the problem. I can't get the wife on board."
I nodded. That's pretty challenging, particularly when you're already married and have kids.
Not getting much of a comment from me, he went back to his screen-shopping on Amazon, periodically asking me what I thought of an item that I had no idea why he would need.
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Biggest topic of discussion at work today — the nearest Starbucks has closed down and now people will have to walk an extra three minutes to the next nearest Starbucks that’s one block down the street. Apparently that news ruined a lot of people’s day.
The consolation is that at least Starbucks delivers so you can just order it online and pay the extra delivery fee.
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Biggest topic of discussion at work today — the nearest Starbucks has closed down and now people will have to walk an extra three minutes to the next nearest Starbucks that’s one block down the street. Apparently that news ruined a lot of people’s day.
The consolation is that at least Starbucks delivers so you can just order it online and pay the extra delivery fee.
It's practically a third-world country if you have to walk an extra block for Starbucks!
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Biggest topic of discussion at work today — the nearest Starbucks has closed down and now people will have to walk an extra three minutes to the next nearest Starbucks that’s one block down the street. Apparently that news ruined a lot of people’s day.
The consolation is that at least Starbucks delivers so you can just order it online and pay the extra delivery fee.
I think Lewis Black had a comedy routine about Starbucks being across the street from another Starbucks.
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I think Lewis Black had a comedy routine about Starbucks being across the street from another Starbucks.
Yes. West Gray Street @ Shepherd Drive in Houston (https://www.google.com/maps/@29.752967,-95.4104264,3a,83.5y,62.52h,86.41t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sb563-h3rEGBo7SZp_CQ7FA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Db563-h3rEGBo7SZp_CQ7FA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D272.5931%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656).
If that's not enough Starbucks for you, there's an in-store cafe at the Barnes and Noble that also sells Starbucks stuff.
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I think Lewis Black had a comedy routine about Starbucks being across the street from another Starbucks.
Yes. West Gray Street @ Shepherd Drive in Houston (https://www.google.com/maps/@29.752967,-95.4104264,3a,83.5y,62.52h,86.41t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sb563-h3rEGBo7SZp_CQ7FA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Db563-h3rEGBo7SZp_CQ7FA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D272.5931%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656).
If that's not enough Starbucks for you, there's an in-store cafe at the Barnes and Noble that also sells Starbucks stuff.
I saw the Lewis Black quote and started typing the exact same thing before I saw your post. I used to live a mile north of there.
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Around the corner from my place is a free standing Tim Hortons which is next door (and in the same parking lot) to a satellite Tim Hortons in the gas station. They each have a drive thru.
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I stopped by Starbucks in the middle of my run yesterday morning because I was out of coffee beans. I normally buy Peet’s but I figured I’d i went in I couid get them do the correct grind for my French press.
Anyway, I go to the counter and tell the lady I want to buy a pound of beans and she looks at me blankly. I had to specify coffee beans, and then she had to turn to a colleague to ask how/do they do that. Sheesh.
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I stopped by Starbucks in the middle of my run yesterday morning because I was out of coffee beans. I normally buy Peet’s but I figured I’d i went in I couid get them do the correct grind for my French press.
Anyway, I go to the counter and tell the lady I want to buy a pound of beans and she looks at me blankly. I had to specify coffee beans, and then she had to turn to a colleague to ask how/do they do that. Sheesh.
Are you sure you don't just want a Trenta tall blonde caramel cloud macchiato instead, with a chonga bagel on the side?
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Biggest topic of discussion at work today — the nearest Starbucks has closed down and now people will have to walk an extra three minutes to the next nearest Starbucks that’s one block down the street. Apparently that news ruined a lot of people’s day.
The consolation is that at least Starbucks delivers so you can just order it online and pay the extra delivery fee.
It's practically a third-world country if you have to walk an extra block for Starbucks!
Haven't these people heard of rollerskates and kick scooters?
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Biggest topic of discussion at work today — the nearest Starbucks has closed down and now people will have to walk an extra three minutes to the next nearest Starbucks that’s one block down the street. Apparently that news ruined a lot of people’s day.
The consolation is that at least Starbucks delivers so you can just order it online and pay the extra delivery fee.
It's practically a third-world country if you have to walk an extra block for Starbucks!
These people would hate Australia then :)
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I think Lewis Black had a comedy routine about Starbucks being across the street from another Starbucks.
Yes. West Gray Street @ Shepherd Drive in Houston (https://www.google.com/maps/@29.752967,-95.4104264,3a,83.5y,62.52h,86.41t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sb563-h3rEGBo7SZp_CQ7FA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Db563-h3rEGBo7SZp_CQ7FA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D272.5931%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656).
If that's not enough Starbucks for you, there's an in-store cafe at the Barnes and Noble that also sells Starbucks stuff.
They do this because sometimes a location needs to expand due to overwhelming demand, but it’s easier, more flexible, and more aesthetic to simply open a second small location nearby. Easy because the adjacent property is often not available for expansions, they don’t need to close the first shop for renovations, they don’t have to break the lease to move to a larger location. More flexible since they can close the second location if demand sags again without interrupting business at the first location. Aesthetic because they want to maintain a cozy small shop aesthetic despite being a giant corporation. It all kinda makes sense once you think about it
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One of my coworkers to another: "The problem with going to Costco this time of year is that I came home with a new 50 inch TV... Well, we'd been talking about getting a new one for our bedroom."
The same coworker recently returned from a cross-country trip to visit his daughter where she attends a public university. He's probably 10 years older than me and at the same pay grade. I guess he'll be working at least a few more years.
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I stopped by Starbucks in the middle of my run yesterday morning because I was out of coffee beans. I normally buy Peet’s but I figured I’d i went in I couid get them do the correct grind for my French press.
Anyway, I go to the counter and tell the lady I want to buy a pound of beans and she looks at me blankly. I had to specify coffee beans, and then she had to turn to a colleague to ask how/do they do that. Sheesh.
That's because nobody really likes Starbucks' nasty burnt-tasting coffee beans! Which is why they drown it in sweetened flavorings and whipped cream...
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I stopped by Starbucks in the middle of my run yesterday morning because I was out of coffee beans. I normally buy Peet’s but I figured I’d i went in I couid get them do the correct grind for my French press.
Anyway, I go to the counter and tell the lady I want to buy a pound of beans and she looks at me blankly. I had to specify coffee beans, and then she had to turn to a colleague to ask how/do they do that. Sheesh.
I'm surprised they actually do. I thought it was a cafe, not a grocery store. (That may sound strange, but in countries with a reduced sales tax for e.g. eating stuff the beans may have a different tax rate than the (service!) coffee you drink there. Without special rules that also means that a food truck pays different taxes depending if you eat the food at their tables or take it with you. Tax code is fun, isn't it?)
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Turns out the beans aren’t nearly as good as I was hoping. Yes, kind of a burnt flavor. I got a bag of Peet’s yesterday.
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Turns out the beans aren’t nearly as good as I was hoping. Yes, kind of a burnt flavor. I got a bag of Peet’s yesterday.
Yes it's well known they overcook their beans.
Check out Intelligenstia black cat coffee
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Biggest topic of discussion at work today — the nearest Starbucks has closed down and now people will have to walk an extra three minutes to the next nearest Starbucks that’s one block down the street. Apparently that news ruined a lot of people’s day.
The consolation is that at least Starbucks delivers so you can just order it online and pay the extra delivery fee.
It's practically a third-world country if you have to walk an extra block for Starbucks!
These people would hate Australia then :)
Imagine them visiting Italy!
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A friend of a co-worker spent $1100 on a fancy kitten. It died at two years of age due to genetic defects.
(Somewhere between 30 and 70% of cats that enter shelters are euthanized. )
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One of my coworkers to another: "The problem with going to Costco this time of year is that I came home with a new 50 inch TV... Well, we'd been talking about getting a new one for our bedroom."
The same coworker recently returned from a cross-country trip to visit his daughter where she attends a public university. He's probably 10 years older than me and at the same pay grade. I guess he'll be working at least a few more years.
Funny, I shop at Costco roughly once a month and have never had that problem.
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A friend of a co-worker spent $1100 on a fancy kitten. It died at two years of age due to genetic defects.
(Somewhere between 30 and 70% of cats that enter shelters are euthanized. )
How sad. We lost a rescue kitty at 2.5 years of age from a genetic heart defect. That was about 5 months after we spent $1000 with no regrets on cancer treatment for a pet rabbit (who is still very much alive and recovered). Sometimes pet spending isn’t rational. Hopefully the friend didn’t go into debt.
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A friend of a co-worker spent $1100 on a fancy kitten. It died at two years of age due to genetic defects.
(Somewhere between 30 and 70% of cats that enter shelters are euthanized. )
How sad. We lost a rescue kitty at 2.5 years of age from a genetic heart defect. That was about 5 months after we spent $1000 with no regrets on cancer treatment for a pet rabbit (who is still very much alive and recovered). Sometimes pet spending isn’t rational. Hopefully the friend didn’t go into debt.
Sorry about your cat and I'm happy for you and your rabbit! I wouldn't be surprised if they were in debt. I'm surrounded by people that are pretty careless with their money(I work at a dealership). They also have families though, so I don't entirely blame them for being in debt. Some have had illnesses and job transitions. The shiny cars and fancy kittens make me less sympathetic though.
I've received a small amount of envy for my financial position, but I don't brag about it, they just see occasional trips to Asia and get jealous. But they don't focus on my shitty old car or my homemade lunches or my cheap ass clothes.
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Imagine them visiting Italy!
They wouldn't have a problem: https://qz.com/quartzy/1473903/starbucks-opens-more-outlets-in-italy-following-debut-in-milan/ (https://qz.com/quartzy/1473903/starbucks-opens-more-outlets-in-italy-following-debut-in-milan/)
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A friend of a co-worker spent $1100 on a fancy kitten. It died at two years of age due to genetic defects.
(Somewhere between 30 and 70% of cats that enter shelters are euthanized. )
And here I was thinking $1100 isn't that much for a fancy kitchen. Reading comprehension fail
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A friend of a co-worker spent $1100 on a fancy kitten. It died at two years of age due to genetic defects.
(Somewhere between 30 and 70% of cats that enter shelters are euthanized. )
And here I was thinking $1100 isn't that much for a fancy kitchen. Reading comprehension fail
I didn't even know it was a thing. It was some type of purebred something or other.
It's just a cat people. How much variation can they have?
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A friend of a co-worker spent $1100 on a fancy kitten. It died at two years of age due to genetic defects.
(Somewhere between 30 and 70% of cats that enter shelters are euthanized. )
And here I was thinking $1100 isn't that much for a fancy kitchen. Reading comprehension fail
I didn't even know it was a thing. It was some type of purebred something or other.
It's just a cat people. How much variation can they have?
Major cat person here. I don't understand the designer animal thing either. The point of having a cat is having a little furry buddy. They need me and I need them. The ones that need me most are the shelter cats.
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My co-worker's daughter is 21 years old, and appears to have a good work ethic in supporting herself through school by working in bakeries in the south part of the city. I estimate she's in the $14-$18/hour neighborhood.
And, she bought a $4,000 dog.
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I guess I need to go hide my $600 dog before everyone shows up with torches and pitchforks.
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I guess I need to go hide my $600 dog before everyone shows up with torches and pitchforks.
No one is going to literally murder you for paying for a dog.
But that doesn't mean people can't have opinions about it.
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I guess I need to go hide my $600 dog before everyone shows up with torches and pitchforks.
No one is going to literally murder you for paying for a dog.
But that doesn't mean people can't have opinions about it.
Do I need to follow up my posts with a bazinga or something to indicate that I'm not serious?
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I guess I need to go hide my $600 dog before everyone shows up with torches and pitchforks.
No one is going to literally murder you for paying for a dog.
But that doesn't mean people can't have opinions about it.
Do I need to follow up my posts with a bazinga or something to indicate that I'm not serious?
If you're regularly being misunderstood by multiple readers, then possibly yes.
As far as I know, it's just been one reader. But I'll start doing that to avoid the vengeful ire.
Edit: added a disclaimer to signature
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I guess I need to go hide my $600 dog before everyone shows up with torches and pitchforks.
No one is going to literally murder you for paying for a dog.
But that doesn't mean people can't have opinions about it.
Perhaps I will steal the dog and sell it for $400, gently used.
Edit: I think rescues have nicer souls anyway.
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My co-worker's daughter is 21 years old, and appears to have a good work ethic in supporting herself through school by working in bakeries in the south part of the city. I estimate she's in the $14-$18/hour neighborhood.
And, she bought a $4,000 dog.
That averages to 250 hours-per-dog before tax.
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There are some people who are into a particular breed, and even do dog shows, trials, hunt with them, etc. So for them it's their hobby and passion and they are using or keeping the dog for what it was bred for. There are also some people who are allergic to dogs or need a non-shedding dog, hence the poodles, labradoodles and goldendoodles. I understand that.
I don't understand the whole, I think labs are cool so I'm going to buy a $400 Labrador even though I don't do bird hunting! There are so many lab mixes, etc in the shelters.Even more so for breeds like bulldogs and king cavalier spaniels, teacup styes that are so inbred you are also purchasing a lot of medical costs and heartache along with the dog. So many dogs that are rescues or look pretty close to that breed, but without all the health issues, you can find at a shelter.
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What specific breed of dog costs $4k? I'm just curious.
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I guess I need to go hide my $600 dog before everyone shows up with torches and pitchforks.
No one is going to literally murder you for paying for a dog.
But that doesn't mean people can't have opinions about it.
Do I need to follow up my posts with a bazinga or something to indicate that I'm not serious?
If you're regularly being misunderstood by multiple readers, then possibly yes.
As far as I know, it's just been one reader. But I'll start doing that to avoid the vengeful ire.
Edit: added a disclaimer to signature
LOL @ "vengeful ire"
And double-LOL at the passive-aggressive signature line.
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I guess I need to go hide my $600 dog before everyone shows up with torches and pitchforks.
No one is going to literally murder you for paying for a dog.
But that doesn't mean people can't have opinions about it.
Do I need to follow up my posts with a bazinga or something to indicate that I'm not serious?
If you're regularly being misunderstood by multiple readers, then possibly yes.
True, that's a good general rule.
But in this particular case I think "shows up with torches and pitchforks" is a common figure of speech. If someone needs to explain that a figure of speech isn't literal, it kind of defeats the purpose of their colorful language.
Personally I'd say figures of speech don't need preemptive explanation, but if someone is confused by it then a polite response to clarify is fine. No reason for either party to take offense due to a misunderstanding.
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What specific breed of dog costs $4k? I'm just curious.
Any breed, if you get it purebred from the "right" breeders can cost that much.
I don't know how much my brother spent on his purebred pointer, but it was definitely an unmustachian amount for "a dog". But he was specifically looking for a male and specifically looking at the lines, to the point that he had hunted with 5/6 of his dogs parents and grandparents before he made his decision. It is his hobby, so it definitely makes sense to me.
There are also certain situations where I can see that it would make sense to get a well-bred puppy from a breeder rather than rescuing. I/my parents when I was a kid have now rescued 4 dogs, and we got 1 from a breeder as well. 3 of the 4 rescues would be EXCELLENT with small children. 1 of them would not be, but you wouldn't have known it based on when you met him and based on the rescue organizations knowledge of him.
You are getting a mystery with a rescue dog. Certain breeds will do better than others, but you can eliminate a lot (but not all) of the risk if you do your research and get a bred puppy. Of course, from what I've seen most do not do the research and most litters are not actually well bred, but I am certainly not eliminating getting a puppy from a breeder for my kids if the situation is right for it. Rescuing will be the preferred method, but it isn't the right way for every situation.
Similarly, my brother (the same who spent a lot on his dog) also fosters Pointers. I think they've had about 17 of them at this point. He'd tell you some stories, but the gist of it is that quite simply, rescuing and fostering isn't always as easy as the internet makes it out to be and sometimes getting a well bred puppy is the better option. This is especially true for certain breeds, like pointers, where they're neurotic and high strung as a baseline. This is of course made worse by bad breeding and inbreeding, but he's written certain breeds off entirely due to that.
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What specific breed of dog costs $4k? I'm just curious.
Any breed, if you get it purebred from the "right" breeders can cost that much.
I don't know how much my brother spent on his purebred pointer, but it was definitely an unmustachian amount for "a dog". But he was specifically looking for a male and specifically looking at the lines, to the point that he had hunted with 5/6 of his dogs parents and grandparents before he made his decision. It is his hobby, so it definitely makes sense to me.
There are also certain situations where I can see that it would make sense to get a well-bred puppy from a breeder rather than rescuing. I/my parents when I was a kid have now rescued 4 dogs, and we got 1 from a breeder as well. 3 of the 4 rescues would be EXCELLENT with small children. 1 of them would not be, but you wouldn't have known it based on when you met him and based on the rescue organizations knowledge of him.
You are getting a mystery with a rescue dog. Certain breeds will do better than others, but you can eliminate a lot (but not all) of the risk if you do your research and get a bred puppy. Of course, from what I've seen most do not do the research and most litters are not actually well bred, but I am certainly not eliminating getting a puppy from a breeder for my kids if the situation is right for it. Rescuing will be the preferred method, but it isn't the right way for every situation.
Similarly, my brother (the same who spent a lot on his dog) also fosters Pointers. I think they've had about 17 of them at this point. He'd tell you some stories, but the gist of it is that quite simply, rescuing and fostering isn't always as easy as the internet makes it out to be and sometimes getting a well bred puppy is the better option. This is especially true for certain breeds, like pointers, where they're neurotic and high strung as a baseline. This is of course made worse by bad breeding and inbreeding, but he's written certain breeds off entirely due to that.
A few of my friends have recently paid for bred puppies. I didn't really ask all of them WHY they wanted a purebed "whatever". In one case, it was looking for a hypoallergenic dog. The others? Dunno. A few friends have driven thousands of miles or flown to pick up a puppy. A few more have been breeding dogs like pugs or dalmations.
We adopted a shelter dog just last week. Not free! She was $75, plus we bought a few things there. We will also need to get her vaccinated and checked out by a vet soon.
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What specific breed of dog costs $4k? I'm just curious.
Any breed, if you get it purebred from the "right" breeders can cost that much.
I don't know how much my brother spent on his purebred pointer, but it was definitely an unmustachian amount for "a dog". But he was specifically looking for a male and specifically looking at the lines, to the point that he had hunted with 5/6 of his dogs parents and grandparents before he made his decision. It is his hobby, so it definitely makes sense to me.
There are also certain situations where I can see that it would make sense to get a well-bred puppy from a breeder rather than rescuing. I/my parents when I was a kid have now rescued 4 dogs, and we got 1 from a breeder as well. 3 of the 4 rescues would be EXCELLENT with small children. 1 of them would not be, but you wouldn't have known it based on when you met him and based on the rescue organizations knowledge of him.
You are getting a mystery with a rescue dog. Certain breeds will do better than others, but you can eliminate a lot (but not all) of the risk if you do your research and get a bred puppy. Of course, from what I've seen most do not do the research and most litters are not actually well bred, but I am certainly not eliminating getting a puppy from a breeder for my kids if the situation is right for it. Rescuing will be the preferred method, but it isn't the right way for every situation.
Similarly, my brother (the same who spent a lot on his dog) also fosters Pointers. I think they've had about 17 of them at this point. He'd tell you some stories, but the gist of it is that quite simply, rescuing and fostering isn't always as easy as the internet makes it out to be and sometimes getting a well bred puppy is the better option. This is especially true for certain breeds, like pointers, where they're neurotic and high strung as a baseline. This is of course made worse by bad breeding and inbreeding, but he's written certain breeds off entirely due to that.
A few of my friends have recently paid for bred puppies. I didn't really ask all of them WHY they wanted a purebed "whatever". In one case, it was looking for a hypoallergenic dog. The others? Dunno. A few friends have driven thousands of miles or flown to pick up a puppy. A few more have been breeding dogs like pugs or dalmations.
We adopted a shelter dog just last week. Not free! She was $75, plus we bought a few things there. We will also need to get her vaccinated and checked out by a vet soon.
Hypoallergenic, fine (if it really is, and isn't just a doodle that they think is because it had a poodle sperm donor), but I get annoyed with breeding pugs, English bullodgs, etc.; these are dogs that probably shouldn't exist anymore. And Dalmations are really not great dogs for a family. Annoying as all get out when people get dogs for image reasons.
When we rescued 2 elderly dogs, I think the fee was waived for one of them and it was still $300. But I looked at it as a donation to keep the rescue running. After all, they have to care for the dogs and everything. Owning a dog is a large financial commitment one way or another. Dog food, vet visits, boarding when necessary... it adds up, and it can seriously impact your life. On the other hand, I know our dog has probably saved my wife from serious depression. The value and true unconditional love that a dog brings to our lives - or at least for my wife and I - is priceless.
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Paying a shelter is money well spent. And I agree there are reasons to buy a purebred.
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I guess I need to go hide my $600 dog before everyone shows up with torches and pitchforks.
No one is going to literally murder you for paying for a dog.
But that doesn't mean people can't have opinions about it.
Do I need to follow up my posts with a bazinga or something to indicate that I'm not serious?
If you're regularly being misunderstood by multiple readers, then possibly yes.
As far as I know, it's just been one reader. But I'll start doing that to avoid the vengeful ire.
Edit: added a disclaimer to signature
I don’t think kris is literally seeking to harm you in return for a perceived injury.
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Adopting from an animal shelter can cost as much as $600 in some places.
Ask me how I know..
I suspect that my "free" puppy is going to run me at least that much in the first year.
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Adopting from an animal shelter can cost as much as $600 in some places.
Ask me how I know..
I suspect that my "free" puppy is going to run me at least that much in the first year.
In this case the $600 was straight adoption fee only. The money goes to support a rescue league I believe in and the dog came spayed and with all her shots so no big deal, but the fee was before any follow up vet visits or "canine comfort" purchases.
Canine comfort can definitely run into big bucks if you're susceptible to the diderot effect. IE: I know she already has a water bowl, but this one is soooo cute. Repeat for leash, bed, toy, winter coat, whatever.
Well, we already have a lot of the canine comfort items. She's gotten some new toys and a kennel. It's the vetting that I'm counting on being expensive. From what little I know of her history, she's probably going to have to have all her shots and be spayed. And that's assuming she's heartworm negative (she likely has not been on preventative up until now).
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Our first dog came free from a friend/coworker. They had purchased her from a breeder for something like $1200 but couldn't keep her any longer. We had never heard of the breed before we got her and ended completely falling in love with her and the breed. When we decided to get a 2nd dog, we found a breed specific rescue so we could both rescue a dog but get the same breed as our first dog. When people see us in public, they probably think we spent $$$$ on our fancypants dogs.
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I'm sure people assume I paid out the nose for mine too. I've got a full-blooded, registered golden retriever. He was a Craigslist find after the breed-specific rescue turned us down for having an intact male (he almost died from the anesthesia so it was determined that it was probably best that he not go under again). The new puppy is mostly chocolate lab. She wandered up to my brother's house a few weeks ago. When we finally tracked down her owners, they told us they didn't want her back (this is why puppies make bad gifts).
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I'm sure people assume I paid out the nose for mine too. I've got a full-blooded, registered golden retriever. He was a Craigslist find after the breed-specific rescue turned us down for having an intact male (he almost died from the anesthesia so it was determined that it was probably best that he not go under again). The new puppy is mostly chocolate lab. She wandered up to my brother's house a few weeks ago. When we finally tracked down her owners, they told us they didn't want her back (this is why puppies make bad gifts).
They just let her go?! How awful and heartbreaking. People suck.
We've been talking about adopting another cat. I think now we'll wait until January so that we can adopt someone's abandoned/surrendered Christmas present.
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I'm sure people assume I paid out the nose for mine too. I've got a full-blooded, registered golden retriever. He was a Craigslist find after the breed-specific rescue turned us down for having an intact male (he almost died from the anesthesia so it was determined that it was probably best that he not go under again). The new puppy is mostly chocolate lab. She wandered up to my brother's house a few weeks ago. When we finally tracked down her owners, they told us they didn't want her back (this is why puppies make bad gifts).
They just let her go?! How awful and heartbreaking. People suck.
We've been talking about adopting another cat. I think now we'll wait until January so that we can adopt someone's abandoned/surrendered Christmas present.
She was a gift from an adult child to the youngest child. I don't think the child's mom was consulted about this decision. She was being kept in a poorly secured fence. She got out and they found her and put her back in the fence. I guess they didn't fix the fence well enough because she got out again. This is when she ended up at my brother's house, eating the cat food off their porch. No collar, no chip. They have six dogs already so I agreed to take her until her owners could be found.
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Our first dog came free from a friend/coworker. They had purchased her from a breeder for something like $1200 but couldn't keep her any longer. We had never heard of the breed before we got her and ended completely falling in love with her and the breed. When we decided to get a 2nd dog, we found a breed specific rescue so we could both rescue a dog but get the same breed as our first dog. When people see us in public, they probably think we spent $$$$ on our fancypants dogs.
Curious what breed?
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Our first dog came free from a friend/coworker. They had purchased her from a breeder for something like $1200 but couldn't keep her any longer. We had never heard of the breed before we got her and ended completely falling in love with her and the breed. When we decided to get a 2nd dog, we found a breed specific rescue so we could both rescue a dog but get the same breed as our first dog. When people see us in public, they probably think we spent $$$$ on our fancypants dogs.
Curious what breed?
Me too.
I understand falling in love with a breed. I loved the breed characteristics of our first dog that our second and third dogs were also that breed.
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I guess I need to go hide my $600 dog before everyone shows up with torches and pitchforks.
No one is going to literally murder you for paying for a dog.
But that doesn't mean people can't have opinions about it.
Do I need to follow up my posts with a bazinga or something to indicate that I'm not serious?
If you're regularly being misunderstood by multiple readers, then possibly yes.
...going to look up what a bazinga is... Oh - a TV show reference. Never watched Big Bang (yet).
Our dog was cheap but the price to fix her up after an accident is well into the nice used car territory.
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I got an SPCA dog. The shelters here have pitbull mixes, husky mixes, cane corso, and other agressive breeds. The few that arent' were actually flown in from another country (I am not supporting killing local animals and flying in out of country ones), and a few with special "quirks" which is why they are given up.
The spay and neuter program has been very successful around here, that is evident.
What the cost with my dog is -- ok, maybe $1000 all in for adoption fee, vaccinations, crate, toys and food (and a private trainer sessions because of those "quirks").
What the higher cost is?
It is very difficult to have a dog without a car.
I can leave her at home to run errands, or take her with me in a car. We can't bike to all the best walking spots. I need a car to take her to the vet.
I also can't rent a place around here if I have a dog, so locked into higher cost place away from apartment buildings and more into suburbia where a bike or car is needed.
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Last time I traveled overnight for work I traveled with three other coworkers. I put the whole thing on my credit card for the points and convenience. Rather than wait for them to get it together and make the arrangements I could choose a comfortable place to stay close to our destination which I did.
Employer reimbursed each person individually and each person passed the money to me - except one. Two months later the highest paid member of that trip as yet to reimburse me though they have publicly promised they would. A couple of hundred bucks more or less. That person is over me on the pecking order.
I won't take the initiative to be efficient again.
This seems a crazy way of doing things - surely the person incurring the debt should get paid?
About 15 years ago, before we had company credit cards (which were automatically paid by the company) I worked away with a colleague for around four weeks. His own credit card was maxed so I picked up the bills and loyalty card points. Accumulated enough for a free hotel night. Used the night. Went to a property exhibition in the hotel. Booked a v cheap inspection trip (from UK to Spain). Bought an apartment off plan (we'd vaguely talked about buying somewhere and one we saw ticked all the boxes). When we took ownership I sat on the terrace the first night, watched the sun set over the mountains and announced I didn't want it as a holiday home, I wanted to live there. That was 2007, when I was 46. Set myself a target of retiring before 60. Had always wanted to retire early but this was tangible so motivation was high. Worked my guts off and spreadsheet obligingly showed retirement age coming down to 58. Then 56, 55, 54. Went at 53, moved to Spain and never looked back. All because Rupert liked a champagne lifestyle on a lemonade budget.
Cheers Rupert :)
Back on topic - as I'm FIRE'd I've no work to overhear but I heard this a few days ago while back in the UK. Two people discussing lottery wins and whether to take the lump sum or 30k a year.
Person 1. I'd have to have the lump sum as 30k would just get lost in normal day to day expenditure.
Person 2. You're right, it's not enough to make a difference.
Neither looked well-heeled. I had to resist the urge to shake them. Choose a lump sum if you think it works out best but to use the rationale that 30k would just be extra pocket money?
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I got an SPCA dog. The shelters here have pitbull mixes, husky mixes, cane corso, and other agressive breeds. The few that arent' were actually flown in from another country (I am not supporting killing local animals and flying in out of country ones), and a few with special "quirks" which is why they are given up.
The spay and neuter program has been very successful around here, that is evident.
What the cost with my dog is -- ok, maybe $1000 all in for adoption fee, vaccinations, crate, toys and food (and a private trainer sessions because of those "quirks").
I live in an area that's known to be a cesspool of people not fixing their animals and we have the same issues with shelter variety. We've got a lot of pit mixes around here too. My brother has one and she's the biggest snugglebug ever, but my city makes owning one so damn difficult that I won't do it. For example, my city allows my dog to be unleashed as long as he's in my yard, under my control, and I'm with him. If he were a pit, he'd have to be leashed at all times and I *think* they also require a taller fence, but don't quote me on that. For the record, I can see where this would cause a problem because my idea of "under my control" is probably different than other people's. The golden is free to run around the yard when we're out there (but won't because he's a velcro dog), but the puppy still stays on leash until I trust her not to take off down the street.
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Not from work, just read, but still, a finance tip:
Trouble with spending too much? Make three categories.
1. Needed 2. Wanted 4. Superfluous
and make a budget for each.
Wait! WTF? Budget?
If you need, buy. You cannot not buy if you need, after all. Why a budget? But even more - a budget for things you _don't_ want? Why would you lose money for things you don't want???
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Not from work, just read, but still, a finance tip:
Trouble with spending too much? Make three categories.
1. Needed 2. Wanted 4. Superfluous
and make a budget for each.
Wait! WTF? Budget?
If you need, buy. You cannot not buy if you need, after all. Why a budget? But even more - a budget for things you _don't_ want? Why would you lose money for things you don't want???
I very often get the vibe from people in our culture that they buy things just because... I dunno, because they haven't bought anything yet today? I think there's a not-insubstantial percentage of people for whom the idea of not spending money for an entire day would make them feel panicky/anxious.
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Not from work, just read, but still, a finance tip:
Trouble with spending too much? Make three categories.
1. Needed 2. Wanted 4. Superfluous
and make a budget for each.
Wait! WTF? Budget?
If you need, buy. You cannot not buy if you need, after all. Why a budget? But even more - a budget for things you _don't_ want? Why would you lose money for things you don't want???
My criticism with advice like that which are similar to those pie charts you see on Pinterest on how to budget your money is that they always include a "spending" budget. They usually like to suggest a percentage of what your monthly/biweekly income should go towards. Basic living expenses make sense, and savings, but they always include discretionary spending and this kind of leads to normalizing the amount of spending. More often than not, if a total money "beginner" tries to search on google questions to learn about money management, there are a slew of articles and images depicting the suggested ranges to be spent on certain things. There's a lot of information that tries to be helpful but somehow ends up doing more harm...
These "budgets" typically include things like transportation, entertainment, and "miscellaneous." I honestly believe that some people take this to mean, that if they look at their finances or otherwise tweak their monthly spending to fit those suggested percentages per category that they're doing well or "OK" with their money. Like for instance, "Oh, my rent is 25% of my budget! That fits in! Great. No need to change anything here." That train of thought coupled with the fact that a lot of people just haven't been exposed to very many ideas and the opportunities that saving vastly more money can afford, it's hard for them to think there's something better. A lot of people do what they think is best based off what they know at the time, often without question or consideration that there could be a better or different way.
Also, consumerism is normalized, so it's not really so surprising that people are buying things they don't need or are having issues distinguishing that. A lot of times people won't realize this until they're in debt.
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To add on to this, the entire concept of retirement savings in mainstream financial media is purely as a percentage of current income. You save 5-10% of your income for retirement, you retire when you've saved 20, 25, 30 times income. No one mentions spending. Why? Because the default is that you're spending every single penny you have outside of that 5-10% of retirement savings, and you couldn't possibly stop spending that much after you retire, so retirement income needs to be your prior income less retirement savings and any obviously work-related expenses like dry cleaning.
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Not from work, just read, but still, a finance tip:
Trouble with spending too much? Make three categories.
1. Needed 2. Wanted 4. Superfluous
and make a budget for each.
Wait! WTF? Budget?
If you need, buy. You cannot not buy if you need, after all. Why a budget? But even more - a budget for things you _don't_ want? Why would you lose money for things you don't want???
I very often get the vibe from people in our culture that they buy things just because... I dunno, because they haven't bought anything yet today? I think there's a not-insubstantial percentage of people for whom the idea of not spending money for an entire day would make them feel panicky/anxious.
I'm fascinated by this too. I agree with your point about a consumerist mindset. It also seems that people buy ideas or emotions or something, rather than items.
Consider a car loan: I work with dozens of people who buy new cars every couple years, presumably rolling over their loans. This seemed silly to me because I didn't understand why someone would pay five figures for heated seats or new rims, when their existing car does 95% of the new one. But if you only look at payments, you might think it's worth it. (Of course, it isn't)
So really it comes down to the fact that people don't save the capital to buy an asset like a car, so they're always playing this psychological financing game with themselves.
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I'm fascinated by this too. I agree with your point about a consumerist mindset. It also seems that people buy ideas or emotions or something, rather than items.
That is certainly true for ads today. The industry has learned that people don't buy stuff, they buy emotions. That is why in car ads you will never see (except maybe the PS) and actual data about the car until the very end for 2 seconds. The rest is all landscape and maybe smiling faces.
Just yesterday I saw an ad by the McD. A mother had lost her child, searched for it etc. She also asked at a McD but you could see the company logo for only 1 second. It only reappeared in the last moment after the happy reunification.
See the trick here?
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Not from work, just read, but still, a finance tip:
Trouble with spending too much? Make three categories.
1. Needed 2. Wanted 4. Superfluous
and make a budget for each.
Wait! WTF? Budget?
If you need, buy. You cannot not buy if you need, after all. Why a budget? But even more - a budget for things you _don't_ want? Why would you lose money for things you don't want???
I very often get the vibe from people in our culture that they buy things just because... I dunno, because they haven't bought anything yet today? I think there's a not-insubstantial percentage of people for whom the idea of not spending money for an entire day would make them feel panicky/anxious.
I'm fascinated by this too. I agree with your point about a consumerist mindset. It also seems that people buy ideas or emotions or something, rather than items.
Consider a car loan: I work with dozens of people who buy new cars every couple years, presumably rolling over their loans. This seemed silly to me because I didn't understand why someone would pay five figures for heated seats or new rims, when their existing car does 95% of the new one. But if you only look at payments, you might think it's worth it. (Of course, it isn't)
So really it comes down to the fact that people don't save the capital to buy an asset like a car, so they're always playing this psychological financing game with themselves.
I think this holds true for mortgages as well. There's a feeling it's normal to spend an x% of your income on your mortgage. When your income increases you buy a bigger house. That's just the done thing. You need to reward yourself for all your hard work and what's a better reward than a home so big you can't keep it clean and well maintained on your own?
We've owned the same house for 5 years and our income has increased quite a bit over those years. People often ask if we're planning on moving to a bigger house. We are a childless couple in a 3-bedroom home (we each have a home office for our businesses). Our needs haven't changed, why would we want a bigger home? Thankfully I have quite a vague job description so people outside of my field aren't really aware of my income. When I tell coworkers we're happy where we are and don't want to move I can see from their face they don't believe me. Well, it's fine with me if they think I'm in debt or something :) eventually I'd like to move to a more rural location with maybe a bit of land but I really don't need a 5 bedroom house ever.
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Not from work, just read, but still, a finance tip:
Trouble with spending too much? Make three categories.
1. Needed 2. Wanted 4. Superfluous
and make a budget for each.
Wait! WTF? Budget?
If you need, buy. You cannot not buy if you need, after all. Why a budget? But even more - a budget for things you _don't_ want? Why would you lose money for things you don't want???
I very often get the vibe from people in our culture that they buy things just because... I dunno, because they haven't bought anything yet today? I think there's a not-insubstantial percentage of people for whom the idea of not spending money for an entire day would make them feel panicky/anxious.
I'm fascinated by this too. I agree with your point about a consumerist mindset. It also seems that people buy ideas or emotions or something, rather than items.
Consider a car loan: I work with dozens of people who buy new cars every couple years, presumably rolling over their loans. This seemed silly to me because I didn't understand why someone would pay five figures for heated seats or new rims, when their existing car does 95% of the new one. But if you only look at payments, you might think it's worth it. (Of course, it isn't)
So really it comes down to the fact that people don't save the capital to buy an asset like a car, so they're always playing this psychological financing game with themselves.
I think this holds true for mortgages as well. There's a feeling it's normal to spend an x% of your income on your mortgage. When your income increases you buy a bigger house. That's just the done thing. You need to reward yourself for all your hard work and what's a better reward than a home so big you can't keep it clean and well maintained on your own?
We've owned the same house for 5 years and our income has increased quite a bit over those years. People often ask if we're planning on moving to a bigger house. We are a childless couple in a 3-bedroom home (we each have a home office for our businesses). Our needs haven't changed, why would we want a bigger home? Thankfully I have quite a vague job description so people outside of my field aren't really aware of my income. When I tell coworkers we're happy where we are and don't want to move I can see from their face they don't believe me. Well, it's fine with me if they think I'm in debt or something :) eventually I'd like to move to a more rural location with maybe a bit of land but I really don't need a 5 bedroom house ever.
This is very true. When we were first looking at houses as newlyweds in entry-level jobs, people kept telling us to buy as much house as we could possibly afford (even if it was a stretch to make the payments) because it would be easier later when our wages went up. We ignored that advice and bought a 3-bed “starter” house well within our price range. I think people are surprised that we’re still in this house 16 years later, which is crazy because we have no kids and don’t need more space. The mortgage is even more affordable now. Why would I want to give up cash in savings and cash flow every month for something we don’t need?
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This is very true. When we were first looking at houses as newlyweds in entry-level jobs, people kept telling us to buy as much house as we could possibly afford (even if it was a stretch to make the payments) because it would be easier later when our wages went up. We ignored that advice and bought a 3-bed “starter” house well within our price range. I think people are surprised that we’re still in this house 16 years later, which is crazy because we have no kids and don’t need more space. The mortgage is even more affordable now. Why would I want to give up cash in savings and cash flow every month for something we don’t need?
It’s not terrible advice for someone who views a small house as a “starter” house and is likely to move again quickly. The transaction costs add up, and over time homes get more expensive. If they actually invested the difference, it would be way better to start small but as discussed here most people are going to spend whatever is left over after their mortgage. In that case it just reinforces the aspect of forced savings that we have with mortgages
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I'm fascinated by this too. I agree with your point about a consumerist mindset. It also seems that people buy ideas or emotions or something, rather than items.
That is certainly true for ads today. The industry has learned that people don't buy stuff, they buy emotions. That is why in car ads you will never see (except maybe the PS) and actual data about the car until the very end for 2 seconds. The rest is all landscape and maybe smiling faces.
Just yesterday I saw an ad by the McD. A mother had lost her child, searched for it etc. She also asked at a McD but you could see the company logo for only 1 second. It only reappeared in the last moment after the happy reunification.
See the trick here?
McD as in McDonald's? That's a weird ad regardless, but I see the trick.
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Not from work, just read, but still, a finance tip:
Trouble with spending too much? Make three categories.
1. Needed 2. Wanted 4. Superfluous
and make a budget for each.
Wait! WTF? Budget?
If you need, buy. You cannot not buy if you need, after all. Why a budget? But even more - a budget for things you _don't_ want? Why would you lose money for things you don't want???
I very often get the vibe from people in our culture that they buy things just because... I dunno, because they haven't bought anything yet today? I think there's a not-insubstantial percentage of people for whom the idea of not spending money for an entire day would make them feel panicky/anxious.
I'm fascinated by this too. I agree with your point about a consumerist mindset. It also seems that people buy ideas or emotions or something, rather than items.
Consider a car loan: I work with dozens of people who buy new cars every couple years, presumably rolling over their loans. This seemed silly to me because I didn't understand why someone would pay five figures for heated seats or new rims, when their existing car does 95% of the new one. But if you only look at payments, you might think it's worth it. (Of course, it isn't)
So really it comes down to the fact that people don't save the capital to buy an asset like a car, so they're always playing this psychological financing game with themselves.
I think this holds true for mortgages as well. There's a feeling it's normal to spend an x% of your income on your mortgage. When your income increases you buy a bigger house. That's just the done thing. You need to reward yourself for all your hard work and what's a better reward than a home so big you can't keep it clean and well maintained on your own?
We've owned the same house for 5 years and our income has increased quite a bit over those years. People often ask if we're planning on moving to a bigger house. We are a childless couple in a 3-bedroom home (we each have a home office for our businesses). Our needs haven't changed, why would we want a bigger home? Thankfully I have quite a vague job description so people outside of my field aren't really aware of my income. When I tell coworkers we're happy where we are and don't want to move I can see from their face they don't believe me. Well, it's fine with me if they think I'm in debt or something :) eventually I'd like to move to a more rural location with maybe a bit of land but I really don't need a 5 bedroom house ever.
Having kids seems like the big influence for a larger house. Those things soak up space like crazy! At least, if they're allowed to fill the house with toys(more materialism)... I'm not a huge fan of a large house, just more space to heat and clean. And humans are too soft and sedentary anyways, we spend too much time indoors doing little.
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This is very true. When we were first looking at houses as newlyweds in entry-level jobs, people kept telling us to buy as much house as we could possibly afford (even if it was a stretch to make the payments) because it would be easier later when our wages went up. We ignored that advice and bought a 3-bed “starter” house well within our price range. I think people are surprised that we’re still in this house 16 years later, which is crazy because we have no kids and don’t need more space. The mortgage is even more affordable now. Why would I want to give up cash in savings and cash flow every month for something we don’t need?
It’s not terrible advice for someone who views a small house as a “starter” house and is likely to move again quickly. The transaction costs add up, and over time homes get more expensive. If they actually invested the difference, it would be way better to start small but as discussed here most people are going to spend whatever is left over after their mortgage. In that case it just reinforces the aspect of forced savings that we have with mortgages
We were getting recommendations to get a mortgage beyond what we could comfortably afford without regular parental help. I don’t think that’s good advice.
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This is very true. When we were first looking at houses as newlyweds in entry-level jobs, people kept telling us to buy as much house as we could possibly afford (even if it was a stretch to make the payments) because it would be easier later when our wages went up. We ignored that advice and bought a 3-bed “starter” house well within our price range. I think people are surprised that we’re still in this house 16 years later, which is crazy because we have no kids and don’t need more space. The mortgage is even more affordable now. Why would I want to give up cash in savings and cash flow every month for something we don’t need?
It’s not terrible advice for someone who views a small house as a “starter” house and is likely to move again quickly. The transaction costs add up, and over time homes get more expensive. If they actually invested the difference, it would be way better to start small but as discussed here most people are going to spend whatever is left over after their mortgage. In that case it just reinforces the aspect of forced savings that we have with mortgages
We were getting recommendations to get a mortgage beyond what we could comfortably afford without regular parental help. I don’t think that’s good advice.
You are absolutely right. It's horrible advice.
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I remember back when we had just graduated college. We were pre-approved for a mortgage around 3.5x my starting salary. Thank heavens that as naive as we were back then, we were smart enough to buy a starter home for just under half that amount.
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This is very true. When we were first looking at houses as newlyweds in entry-level jobs, people kept telling us to buy as much house as we could possibly afford (even if it was a stretch to make the payments) because it would be easier later when our wages went up. We ignored that advice and bought a 3-bed “starter” house well within our price range. I think people are surprised that we’re still in this house 16 years later, which is crazy because we have no kids and don’t need more space. The mortgage is even more affordable now. Why would I want to give up cash in savings and cash flow every month for something we don’t need?
It’s not terrible advice for someone who views a small house as a “starter” house and is likely to move again quickly. The transaction costs add up, and over time homes get more expensive. If they actually invested the difference, it would be way better to start small but as discussed here most people are going to spend whatever is left over after their mortgage. In that case it just reinforces the aspect of forced savings that we have with mortgages
We were getting recommendations to get a mortgage beyond what we could comfortably afford without regular parental help. I don’t think that’s good advice.
You are absolutely right. It's horrible advice.
I just had a flashback to my first home purchase, when the Realtor and my parents were pushing me to buy as much house as I could "afford", as in the maximum amount I could get from any lender. Having seen my parents struggle from time to time after over-purchasing on real estate until they obtained a sizable inheritance and a more lucrative line of work, I decided to not slip on the golden handcuffs. In fact, I said something to my Realtor about a fox guarding the henhouse and insisted that she show me dwellings only within my specific price range. It wasn't that I was educated any better than the average person. My position came mostly from hardheadedness and overall tightwaddery, plus a generous helping of Stanley and Danko.
How many people don't have the dumb luck to read Stanley and Danko or to be natural tightwads? Probably most of them.
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I remember back when we had just graduated college. We were pre-approved for a mortgage around 3.5x my starting salary. Thank heavens that as naive as we were back then, we were smart enough to buy a starter home for just under half that amount.
Well the house we did buy was 3 times our income then, but lending 3-4 times your income is normal in my country. The average house cost 6,5 times the average income when we bought and close to 8 now. Our place was a great deal even then. Rent and mortgages are both very high compared to income because there's such a massive housing shortage. We did buy a modest townhouse (800 sq ft/ 75 sq m), but with several bedrooms on purpose, as it was only 25% more expensive than a studio flat and a house this size would give us more options for the future / lower chance of selling after a few years. We rented out a bedroom for a while, we have home offices now, if we ever have a child they could have a bedroom.
Our rent payment before was 650/month excl. bills which was the cheapest apartment we could find, we went on to pay €300 in mortgage a month - and we don't have PMI or sky high property taxes in here (taxes + insurance = <€50/month). The energy bills for this place are a lot lower too. It's mandatory to pay off the mortgage completely but that's no big deal as only a small amount of money is tied up in this house. I still think this is the single most important financial decision we've ever made. We were always able to save a little bit every month but from the moment we moved we were able to increase our savings rate. Our mortgage payment is now less than 10% of our income and we barely notice the money going out of our account.
Many of our friends have now moved to giant homes in the suburbs and none of them have enough kids (or businesses, or roommates) to fill them. It's one thing to buy a 5 bedroom if you have 6 kids but few have more than 1 and only vague plans for more children. The majority had significant parental help to buy something they don't even need. I think my mother would kick me out if I asked for money to buy a fancy house I can't afford and really don't even need.... But I think some parents also get a kick from bragging about their child who lives in a newbuild in the Fancy Rich Neighbourhood. That's somehow more acceptable than saying 'my kid is self sufficient and lives well within her means'.
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This is very true. When we were first looking at houses as newlyweds in entry-level jobs, people kept telling us to buy as much house as we could possibly afford (even if it was a stretch to make the payments) because it would be easier later when our wages went up. We ignored that advice and bought a 3-bed “starter” house well within our price range. I think people are surprised that we’re still in this house 16 years later, which is crazy because we have no kids and don’t need more space. The mortgage is even more affordable now. Why would I want to give up cash in savings and cash flow every month for something we don’t need?
It’s not terrible advice for someone who views a small house as a “starter” house and is likely to move again quickly. The transaction costs add up, and over time homes get more expensive. If they actually invested the difference, it would be way better to start small but as discussed here most people are going to spend whatever is left over after their mortgage. In that case it just reinforces the aspect of forced savings that we have with mortgages
We were getting recommendations to get a mortgage beyond what we could comfortably afford without regular parental help. I don’t think that’s good advice.
Ok, but I'm talking about advice to buy as much as you can afford, not advice to buy more than you can afford.
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Consider a car loan: I work with dozens of people who buy new cars every couple years, presumably rolling over their loans. This seemed silly to me because I didn't understand why someone would pay five figures for heated seats or new rims, when their existing car does 95% of the new one. But if you only look at payments, you might think it's worth it. (Of course, it isn't)
So really it comes down to the fact that people don't save the capital to buy an asset like a car, so they're always playing this psychological financing game with themselves.
I can't tell you how many people I know think that paying off a car loan means that it's time to start shopping for a new car. I guess that's better than rolling negative equity into a new loan, but come on man.
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This is very true. When we were first looking at houses as newlyweds in entry-level jobs, people kept telling us to buy as much house as we could possibly afford (even if it was a stretch to make the payments) because it would be easier later when our wages went up. We ignored that advice and bought a 3-bed “starter” house well within our price range. I think people are surprised that we’re still in this house 16 years later, which is crazy because we have no kids and don’t need more space. The mortgage is even more affordable now. Why would I want to give up cash in savings and cash flow every month for something we don’t need?
It’s not terrible advice for someone who views a small house as a “starter” house and is likely to move again quickly. The transaction costs add up, and over time homes get more expensive. If they actually invested the difference, it would be way better to start small but as discussed here most people are going to spend whatever is left over after their mortgage. In that case it just reinforces the aspect of forced savings that we have with mortgages
We were getting recommendations to get a mortgage beyond what we could comfortably afford without regular parental help. I don’t think that’s good advice.
Ok, but I'm talking about advice to buy as much as you can afford, not advice to buy more than you can afford.
I still think it’s shitty advice. On paper, sure, we could have (barely, just) afforded a larger home and larger mortgage payments, especially if we’d taken the strongly suggested adjustable rate loan. In reality, any unexpected expense would have sent us running for parental help or credit (more likely), and we would have lost our house a few years later when the bottom fell out of the economy and the house lost 80% of its purchase value, the mortgage rate spiked, and husband lost his job.
I can’t see any scenario in which advice to go beyond what you can comfortably afford, with the assumption that your finances/the economy will always grow, is not a recipe for disaster. I do accept that like people who went through the Depression, my view of real estate and economic impermanence may be biased.
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I guess I need to go hide my $600 dog before everyone shows up with torches and pitchforks.
No one is going to literally murder you for paying for a dog.
But that doesn't mean people can't have opinions about it.
Do I need to follow up my posts with a bazinga or something to indicate that I'm not serious?
If you're regularly being misunderstood by multiple readers, then possibly yes.
As far as I know, it's just been one reader. But I'll start doing that to avoid the vengeful ire.
Edit: added a disclaimer to signature
If your screen name doesn't give them a clue, I'm not sure the disclaimer will either, but kudos to you for being so responsive, @DadJokes.
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Our first home purchase was at 200% of annual salary. We only had one car payment and it was affordable, but we needed to pay close attention to finances.
Our 2nd home was about 150% of annual salary. Much more affordable!
Our 3rd home was about 80% of annual salary. We had two car payments and a business loan at the time. Fast forward 5 years and the car loans and business loans were gone, which made it so affordable we were making 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 mortgage payments a month to pay it off early! (Wish I had known to invest instead!)
Our 4th house was about 112% of annual income. (Note use of word income, not salary. We now had passive income plus salary.) It's still quite affordable.
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Our current house was 3x our annual household salary when we bought it and that felt like a bit of a stretch stepping up from the under market rental we had been in. But then I set up the automatic payments and other than a text message each month, I didn’t even notice the mortgage payment going out.
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^^That's great, Sword Guy^^, but if you live where housing is more expensive, you just don't have those kind of options. [Dicey waves to ysette9.]
*Sidebar Rant Alert*
Not harshing on you specifically, SG, but comments like this frustrate the shit out of me. When I was starting out, despite having a year's salary in the bank, I could afford nothing in the city where my job was, so I bought a rental in the cheaper place where I grew up. It still cost 3.5x my salary. Eight years later, my income had increased, and I found a deal on a tiny condo that was a short sale during a market dip, so I bought it, moved in, and sold the rental for a very small profit. The tiny condo cost roughly half my take home pay, but I made it work. Four years later, I needed more space, so I sold it for more than double what I paid and bought something that cost about 5-6x my salary. It was bigger, so I had space for a roommate and I made it work once again.
When DH and I got married, we each had our own homes and were happily planning on living in one and renting the other. Until his dad died, and we realized his mom had ALZ. Our houses were two story with no downstairs bedrooms. I retired, we sold both houses and bought a suitable house on a short sale. Here's the kicker: the new house cost 10x DH's salary. Fortunately, our houses had appreciated so much that we were able to buy the new house with no mortgage.
The point is that if you're frugal (i.e. mustachian), and you want to own property, you can still figure out a way, even in a HCOLA. You may have to "overspend", but you can do it. It's just a lot harder than it is in cheaper places with a plethora of affordable options.
/End sidebar rant
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^^That's great, Sword Guy^^, but if you live where housing is more expensive, you just don't have those kind of options. [Dicey waves to ysette9.]
*Sidebar Rant Alert*
Not harshing on you specifically, SG, but comments like this frustrate the shit out of me. When I was starting out, despite having a year's salary in the bank, I could afford nothing in the city where my job was, so I bought a rental in the cheaper place where I grew up. It still cost 3.5x my salary. Eight years later, my income had increased, and I found a deal on a tiny condo that was a short sale during a market dip, so I bought it, moved in, and sold the rental for a very small profit. The tiny condo cost roughly half my take home pay, but I made it work. Four years later, I needed more space, so I sold it for more than double what I paid and bought something that cost about 5-6x my salary. It was bigger, so I had space for a roommate and I made it work once again.
When DH and I got married, we each had our own homes and were happily planning on living in one and renting the other. Until his dad died, and we realized his mom had ALZ. Our houses were two story with no downstairs bedrooms. I retired, we sold both houses and bought a suitable house on a short sale. Here's the kicker: the new house cost 10x DH's salary. Fortunately, our houses had appreciated so much that we were able to buy the new house with no mortgage.
The point is that if you're frugal (i.e. mustachian), and you want to own property, you can still figure out a way, even in a HCOLA. You may have to "overspend", but you can do it. It's just a lot harder than it is in cheaper places with a plethora of affordable options.
/End sidebar rant
All very good points, @Dicey.
House #2, for example, was in Atlanta less than a mile outside the perimeter interstate. I haven't always been in smaller, LCOL towns. :)
A huge percentage of the population lives in areas that do not have horribly expensive housing. And for them, getting a much more affordable house is clearly an option.
But I have to say, I hear how horrible home prices are in various parts of the country. Then I go on Zillow and do a search of homes sold in the last 2 years and hey! presto! I find things like this:
https://www.zillow.com/homes/recently_sold/house,condo,apartment_duplex,townhouse_type/1-_beds/1.0-_baths/?searchQueryState={%22pagination%22:{},%22mapBounds%22:{%22west%22:-122.7087176191406,%22east%22:-121.98087338085935,%22south%22:47.37671523873406,%22north%22:47.84855793774056},%22isMapVisible%22:true,%22filterState%22:{%22isRecentlySold%22:{%22value%22:true},%22isForSaleByAgent%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isForSaleByOwner%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isNewConstruction%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isComingSoon%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isAuction%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isForSaleForeclosure%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isPreMarketForeclosure%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isPreMarketPreForeclosure%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isMakeMeMove%22:{%22value%22:false},%22price%22:{%22max%22:200000,%22min%22:50000},%22monthlyPayment%22:{%22max%22:745,%22min%22:186},%22isLotLand%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isManufactured%22:{%22value%22:false},%22beds%22:{%22min%22:1},%22baths%22:{%22min%22:1},%22doz%22:{%22value%22:%2224m%22}},%22isListVisible%22:true}
(https://www.zillow.com/homes/recently_sold/house,condo,apartment_duplex,townhouse_type/1-_beds/1.0-_baths/?searchQueryState={%22pagination%22:{},%22mapBounds%22:{%22west%22:-122.7087176191406,%22east%22:-121.98087338085935,%22south%22:47.37671523873406,%22north%22:47.84855793774056},%22isMapVisible%22:true,%22filterState%22:{%22isRecentlySold%22:{%22value%22:true},%22isForSaleByAgent%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isForSaleByOwner%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isNewConstruction%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isComingSoon%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isAuction%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isForSaleForeclosure%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isPreMarketForeclosure%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isPreMarketPreForeclosure%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isMakeMeMove%22:{%22value%22:false},%22price%22:{%22max%22:200000,%22min%22:50000},%22monthlyPayment%22:{%22max%22:745,%22min%22:186},%22isLotLand%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isManufactured%22:{%22value%22:false},%22beds%22:{%22min%22:1},%22baths%22:{%22min%22:1},%22doz%22:{%22value%22:%2224m%22}},%22isListVisible%22:true})
1813 homes/apartments/townhomes sold in the last two years in the Seattle, WA area shown on the map for a price between $50k and $200k. I picked $50k as the lower boundary because quite a few goobers trying to rent a place list it for sale for the monthly rental price so that filters them out.
I look at photos of some of the places and quite a few of them look nice. Toss in another $25k to $50k for renovations if needed and it's still a heck of a lot lower than the real estate prices I see quoted by the woe is me crowd.
Clearly, quite a few folks found a way to purchase affordable housing in the Seattle area. Maybe everyone can't do it, but that's no reason not to be one of those who do!
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^^That's great, Sword Guy^^, but if you live where housing is more expensive, you just don't have those kind of options. [Dicey waves to ysette9.]
*Sidebar Rant Alert*
Not harshing on you specifically, SG, but comments like this frustrate the shit out of me. When I was starting out, despite having a year's salary in the bank, I could afford nothing in the city where my job was, so I bought a rental in the cheaper place where I grew up. It still cost 3.5x my salary. Eight years later, my income had increased, and I found a deal on a tiny condo that was a short sale during a market dip, so I bought it, moved in, and sold the rental for a very small profit. The tiny condo cost roughly half my take home pay, but I made it work. Four years later, I needed more space, so I sold it for more than double what I paid and bought something that cost about 5-6x my salary. It was bigger, so I had space for a roommate and I made it work once again.
When DH and I got married, we each had our own homes and were happily planning on living in one and renting the other. Until his dad died, and we realized his mom had ALZ. Our houses were two story with no downstairs bedrooms. I retired, we sold both houses and bought a suitable house on a short sale. Here's the kicker: the new house cost 10x DH's salary. Fortunately, our houses had appreciated so much that we were able to buy the new house with no mortgage.
The point is that if you're frugal (i.e. mustachian), and you want to own property, you can still figure out a way, even in a HCOLA. You may have to "overspend", but you can do it. It's just a lot harder than it is in cheaper places with a plethora of affordable options.
/End sidebar rant
All very good points, @Dicey.
House #2, for example, was in Atlanta less than a mile outside the perimeter interstate. I haven't always been in smaller, LCOL towns. :)
A huge percentage of the population lives in areas that do not have horribly expensive housing. And for them, getting a much more affordable house is clearly an option.
But I have to say, I hear how horrible home prices are in various parts of the country. Then I go on Zillow and do a search of homes sold in the last 2 years and hey! presto! I find things like this:
https://www.zillow.com/homes/recently_sold/house,condo,apartment_duplex,townhouse_type/1-_beds/1.0-_baths/?searchQueryState={%22pagination%22:{},%22mapBounds%22:{%22west%22:-122.7087176191406,%22east%22:-121.98087338085935,%22south%22:47.37671523873406,%22north%22:47.84855793774056},%22isMapVisible%22:true,%22filterState%22:{%22isRecentlySold%22:{%22value%22:true},%22isForSaleByAgent%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isForSaleByOwner%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isNewConstruction%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isComingSoon%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isAuction%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isForSaleForeclosure%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isPreMarketForeclosure%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isPreMarketPreForeclosure%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isMakeMeMove%22:{%22value%22:false},%22price%22:{%22max%22:200000,%22min%22:50000},%22monthlyPayment%22:{%22max%22:745,%22min%22:186},%22isLotLand%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isManufactured%22:{%22value%22:false},%22beds%22:{%22min%22:1},%22baths%22:{%22min%22:1},%22doz%22:{%22value%22:%2224m%22}},%22isListVisible%22:true}
(https://www.zillow.com/homes/recently_sold/house,condo,apartment_duplex,townhouse_type/1-_beds/1.0-_baths/?searchQueryState={%22pagination%22:{},%22mapBounds%22:{%22west%22:-122.7087176191406,%22east%22:-121.98087338085935,%22south%22:47.37671523873406,%22north%22:47.84855793774056},%22isMapVisible%22:true,%22filterState%22:{%22isRecentlySold%22:{%22value%22:true},%22isForSaleByAgent%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isForSaleByOwner%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isNewConstruction%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isComingSoon%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isAuction%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isForSaleForeclosure%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isPreMarketForeclosure%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isPreMarketPreForeclosure%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isMakeMeMove%22:{%22value%22:false},%22price%22:{%22max%22:200000,%22min%22:50000},%22monthlyPayment%22:{%22max%22:745,%22min%22:186},%22isLotLand%22:{%22value%22:false},%22isManufactured%22:{%22value%22:false},%22beds%22:{%22min%22:1},%22baths%22:{%22min%22:1},%22doz%22:{%22value%22:%2224m%22}},%22isListVisible%22:true})
1813 homes/apartments/townhomes sold in the last two years in the Seattle, WA area shown on the map for a price between $50k and $200k. I picked $50k as the lower boundary because quite a few goobers trying to rent a place list it for sale for the monthly rental price so that filters them out.
I look at photos of some of the places and quite a few of them look nice. Toss in another $25k to $50k for renovations if needed and it's still a heck of a lot lower than the real estate prices I see quoted by the woe is me crowd.
Clearly, quite a few folks found a way to purchase affordable housing in the Seattle area. Maybe everyone can't do it, but that's no reason not to be one of those who do!
In our experience, often things that show up on Zillow are not sales at all. They're other transactions, such as people setting up trusts, getting reverse mortgages, inheriting property, inside deals or anything else requiring a title change. Don't move to Seattle expecting to find deals like this to fall into your lap. And typically, renovations, including materials, are more expensive in HCOLAs, so "tossing" $25k--$50k is hilarious, as is the assumption that people have that much left after getting into the property.
We looked at a "cheap" house last weekend for "only" $430k. The previous owners had previously done work to shore up the house and then gotten old and done nothing else to maintain it, except for getting suckered into putting solar on the old roof, sigh. Interestingly, at some point they covered most of the concrete slab with plywood and installed carpet over it. They most likely did this to deal with foundation cracking. The carpet had been removed, but the cat pee smell in the plywood persisted. Walls were cracked in every direction. There were asbestos tiles visible in some bedrooms. The bathroom was original. There was probably asbestos in the walls and surely there was lead in the paint. The roof and gutters were shot. There were no appliances. The laundry sink in the garage had leaked for years and the studs in the walls around it were rotted. It was a probate sale, cash only. They got seven offers in two and a half days, at least one for over asking. Sure, if you had cash, you could buy for "under market", but you couldn't live in it, nor could you fix it for $25k-$50k, nor could you change the fact that it's in a marginal neighborhood that backs up to a busy road that's across from the back of a busy shopping center. Oh, and the schools are crap, too. But hey, it looked okay from the picture of the front of the house, which is all you'll see when you do a future Zillow search. Well, that and a "below market" selling price.
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https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1208-Broadway-Ave-Bremerton-WA-98337/23425558_zpid/ (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1208-Broadway-Ave-Bremerton-WA-98337/23425558_zpid/)
This one appears to have been put up for actual sale and sold last month. (Hint: they don't bother to put up photos of the home interior for an inheritance or family gift.) The photos show a habitable condition though, of course, they are selective. It definitely needs work. FYI, I put $7k to $25k into my properties, plus sweat equity. So $25k to $50k is not an unreasonable price for someone willing to do similar work.
Someone who is renting in the area and looking for a deal could purchase the house and fix it up on weekends and evenings whilst remaining in their apartment. The extra costs, possibly even including breaking a lease early, would still pale in comparison to buying a $500k house.
Obviously, other houses in bad shape would cost ever so much more but I walk away from them.
Here's one that appears to be in much better condition and also appears to have been an actual sale last month:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1917-2nd-Ave-W-Bremerton-WA-98312/23444824_zpid/
(https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1917-2nd-Ave-W-Bremerton-WA-98312/23444824_zpid/)
Unless a physical inspection showed much bigger problems that the photo selection is hiding, $25k to $50k should be God's plenty to fix that up if you do much of the work yourself.
Many people in my area don't think you can buy nice houses for what I buy them for, either. They think prices are much higher. The reason is their selection criteria and their house hunting methods.
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I just did a quick search on my country's alternative to zillow and it looks like there's a catch to basically all extremely cheap homes. Aside from all being in really remote areas, mahy are vacation homes that you can't legally live in for more than 6 months a year and quite a few apartments are in senior living facilities with extremely high monthly HOA dues and age limits. Other homes are just in a terrible state and require way more than 25k and a bit of sweat.
(If you're curious: all houses for sale in my country €50k-€125k: https://www.funda.nl/koop/heel-nederland/0-125000/woonhuis/ #1 in Klazienaveen is a vacation home and not legal to live in fulltime #3 in Oosterhout is actually a really sweet deal and fairly good location, close to the city, but the park itself is notorious, and comes with park fees, ground rent and you can't get a mortgage on a trailer, #4 Veendam is in an area with frequent earthquakes, etc etc etc. There's a reason why no one wants them when they're practically given away.
I'm sure if you look really well you'll find a good deal sometimes and being a cash buyer and experienced at DIY really helps, but my mother always taught me that if something looks too good to be true.... It usually is.
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Why are you harping in Washington SG? Where we are from people move to WA for its relative affordability
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In 99% there is no such thing as "under-market", as there is no such thing as a free meal.
With hundreds of people looking for "a deal" you need to be really lucky to finf one yourself.
At least that is what people who do their (scientific) job on that topic say.
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Why are you harping in Washington SG? Where we are from people move to WA for its relative affordability
Yeah, I’m confused what is being argued here and why WA. Dicey and I are in the Bay Area, and yes, people from here move to Seattle for more affordable housing. I’m actually surprised at something that was listed for $400s and was a house. On my side of the bay it is hard to find a tear down for under $1M.
But that is neither here nor there. Real estate is very local, as we all know. Each area has pros and cons and we all choose based on our particular mix of values. So I just don’t think comparisons are that helpful between different areas of the country when it comes to housing costs. The thing that is comparable is the idea of buying less than you can absolutely afford to buy. Whether that is 0.8x or 4x your salary is a different matter.
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I just picked Seattle because I've seen many comments in the press and from people in the area about how high the property costs are.
I didn't pick NYC or San Francisco because those are way more expensive than most areas in the country.
As for "most people" can't do it, most people don't try. It takes work, knowledge and time. Luck just makes that happen faster.
As I pointed out, over 1800 people in the last year bought living quarters for less than $200k in the Seattle area. Some had to spend money to fix them up right away, others could have waited awhile.
You only need one house. :) Seems to me that the potential to save $200k to $500k on one's living quarters would be worth a fair bit of effort.
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#1 in Klazienaveen is a vacation home and not legal to live in fulltime
Could you buy two "vacation homes" and alternate using each of them for 6 months? What about renting them out when you're not living there? Or finding another family who wants to alternate between two "vacation homes" and you just swap with them twice a year.
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40 years ago our first home was a fixer upper but livable. It was double our income and we had 2 kids with a third on the way. If houses had been more money we would have kept renting. Sometimes people can’t afford to buy.
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#1 in Klazienaveen is a vacation home and not legal to live in fulltime
Could you buy two "vacation homes" and alternate using each of them for 6 months? What about renting them out when you're not living there? Or finding another family who wants to alternate between two "vacation homes" and you just swap with them twice a year.
Very clever!
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#1 in Klazienaveen is a vacation home and not legal to live in fulltime
Could you buy two "vacation homes" and alternate using each of them for 6 months? What about renting them out when you're not living there? Or finding another family who wants to alternate between two "vacation homes" and you just swap with them twice a year.
Very clever!
Would they be inhabitable year round? Here there are 3 season cottages and 4 season cottages. 3 season cottages are not equipped for winter habitation.
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I just picked Seattle because I've seen many comments in the press and from people in the area about how high the property costs are.
I didn't pick NYC or San Francisco because those are way more expensive than most areas in the country.
As for "most people" can't do it, most people don't try. It takes work, knowledge and time. Luck just makes that happen faster.
As I pointed out, over 1800 people in the last year bought living quarters for less than $200k in the Seattle area. Some had to spend money to fix them up right away, others could have waited awhile.
You only need one house. :) Seems to me that the potential to save $200k to $500k on one's living quarters would be worth a fair bit of effort.
Citation, please?
BTW, I looked at both of the Bremerton houses you cited. I checked the school ratings and the street views, too. Not a chance. Hard pass, with a huge portion of gratitude.
I also checked the price history. The potential for appreciation appears to be quite limited, and it's not certain that money spent on making either these two abodes reasonably up to date and/or code would even return what they cost. And I'm not talking about quartz countertops and SS appliances.
I appreciate and admire that you have capitalized on the opportunities that exist in your area. I do not understand your conviction that these opportunities exist everywhere and that anyone can do as you have.
Owning real estate in HCOLAS, even though it required a much higher percent of my income than the guidelines suggest, made me quite wealthy through sheer appreciation. Of course, it didn't hurt that I've updated everything I ever owned on a shoestring budget, but I'm no savant. Appreciation did the heavy lifting.
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#1 in Klazienaveen is a vacation home and not legal to live in fulltime
Could you buy two "vacation homes" and alternate using each of them for 6 months? What about renting them out when you're not living there? Or finding another family who wants to alternate between two "vacation homes" and you just swap with them twice a year.
Very clever!
Would they be inhabitable year round? Here there are 3 season cottages and 4 season cottages. 3 season cottages are not equipped for winter habitation.
I wondered that, too. My grandparents’ fairly rustic cabin in northern Michigan was not insulated for winter use.
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I'm from the same area as Imma, and vacation homes in general cannot be registered as official address.
Our bank offered us 6.5x my income as mortgage; I refused and didn't want to take out more than 4.5x my income. I knew my income was going to go up and husband would be starting to work soon. He did, and then our mortgage was just 2.5x our income. We bought a home in a small village, that needed a lot of renovation we couldn't do ourselves, so we paid out around €50,000 for renovations, and received around €10,000 in subsidies for those renovations :)
Our kitchen extension (there when we bought the house) has now started to leak, so we will have more renovations coming up, this time with a proper architect to maximize any changes we (need to) make, and make this house liveable for the next 40 years. I don't want to leave the village, having settled in, and properties that are coming on to the market right now are all fixer-uppers for at least €300,000. My commute (by electric bike) is only 30 minutes, and as commutes are a waste of time, I don't want to move further out.
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I just picked Seattle because I've seen many comments in the press and from people in the area about how high the property costs are.
I didn't pick NYC or San Francisco because those are way more expensive than most areas in the country.
As for "most people" can't do it, most people don't try. It takes work, knowledge and time. Luck just makes that happen faster.
As I pointed out, over 1800 people in the last year bought living quarters for less than $200k in the Seattle area. Some had to spend money to fix them up right away, others could have waited awhile.
You only need one house. :) Seems to me that the potential to save $200k to $500k on one's living quarters would be worth a fair bit of effort.
Citation, please?
The Zillow link I posted above shows the count of houses sold in the $50k to $200k price range.
BTW, I looked at both of the Bremerton houses you cited. I checked the school ratings and the street views, too. Not a chance. Hard pass, with a huge portion of gratitude.
A family that intends to home school because they will be FIREing before they have kids (as in MMM) would not need to care about the school rating.
A family or individual who won't be having children would not need to care.
I also checked the price history. The potential for appreciation appears to be quite limited, and it's not certain that money spent on making either these two abodes reasonably up to date and/or code would even return what they cost. And I'm not talking about quartz countertops and SS appliances.
I appreciate and admire that you have capitalized on the opportunities that exist in your area. I do not understand your conviction that these opportunities exist everywhere and that anyone can do as you have.
Owning real estate in HCOLAS, even though it required a much higher percent of my income than the guidelines suggest, made me quite wealthy through sheer appreciation. Of course, it didn't hurt that I've updated everything I ever owned on a shoestring budget, but I'm no savant. Appreciation did the heavy lifting.
If my strategy is to make money via index fund investing and live in the house for many years, the lack of property appreciation is immaterial. (If my plan were to live in a house until I died, the appreciation wouldn't matter either because I wouldn't be selling it. Actually, it would be bad because my property taxes would go up.)
As for the street view, lots of areas start that way and then gentrify over time as more and more folks with resources move into the area and fix up their homes. The early adopters often make a killing on appreciation.
My point is that the opportunity to get more affordable housing **is** there and that you, as well as gobs of others, have just chosen not to take advantage of it.
And that's fine. Everyone needs to pick a path that works for them.
What I object to is folks telling others that a path doesn't exist when what's really true is that they themselves don't want to take that path.
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This is very true. When we were first looking at houses as newlyweds in entry-level jobs, people kept telling us to buy as much house as we could possibly afford (even if it was a stretch to make the payments) because it would be easier later when our wages went up. We ignored that advice and bought a 3-bed “starter” house well within our price range. I think people are surprised that we’re still in this house 16 years later, which is crazy because we have no kids and don’t need more space. The mortgage is even more affordable now. Why would I want to give up cash in savings and cash flow every month for something we don’t need?
It’s not terrible advice for someone who views a small house as a “starter” house and is likely to move again quickly. The transaction costs add up, and over time homes get more expensive. If they actually invested the difference, it would be way better to start small but as discussed here most people are going to spend whatever is left over after their mortgage. In that case it just reinforces the aspect of forced savings that we have with mortgages
We were getting recommendations to get a mortgage beyond what we could comfortably afford without regular parental help. I don’t think that’s good advice.
Ok, but I'm talking about advice to buy as much as you can afford, not advice to buy more than you can afford.
The root cause of the problem is that lenders and selling brokers tend t be unclear about how much their buying customers "can afford", and too many customers don't understand that taking a lender's advice about how much they can afford to borrow is like letting the fox advise them about henhouse construction. A lender has a financial incentive to get the customer on the debt hook for life and to extract maximum interest over as long a period of time as possible. The lender is not a fiduciary, and many people don't even realize what a fiduciary is.
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In regards to both of the Bremerton properties listed by SwordGuy. I'm familiar with both neighborhoods. The house on Broadway is at least close to the local college, and might make for a good rental. I would not say it is "downtown" like the ad claims, but you could get downtown in 15 minutes if you walk fast. It might be reasonable for a Seattle commuter by Ferry.
***"As for the street view, lots of areas start that way and then gentrify over time as more and more folks with resources move into the area and fix up their homes. The early adopters often make a killing on appreciation. "***
The house on 2nd Street is in a crap neighborhood, nowhere near 'downtown' or even a grocery store. If you fancy a neighborhood where houses are 10 feet apart, where the homes are mostly older mobiles, manufactured homes, and cheaply built - and/or old + neglected "stick built" homes, where there are many brokedown cars in driveways, junk filled yards, and Lots of Grown men riding BMX bicycles wearing backpacks [ meth user or dealer ] - you might like it.
That 2nd Street neighborhood will never Gentrify, its been sketchy for decades and will remain that way.
All that said, there are some very nice neighborhoods in that town, houses with architectural appeal, etc - just not the ones/areas that were picked as examples.
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Our first dog came free from a friend/coworker. They had purchased her from a breeder for something like $1200 but couldn't keep her any longer. We had never heard of the breed before we got her and ended completely falling in love with her and the breed. When we decided to get a 2nd dog, we found a breed specific rescue so we could both rescue a dog but get the same breed as our first dog. When people see us in public, they probably think we spent $$$$ on our fancypants dogs.
Curious what breed?
Me too.
I understand falling in love with a breed. I loved the breed characteristics of our first dog that our second and third dogs were also that breed.
Missed your question, they are Airedale Terriers :)
(https://imgur.com/xliYhi0)(https://imgur.com/H8ZDbBF)(https://imgur.com/dTSilRn)
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In regards to both of the Bremerton properties listed by SwordGuy. I'm familiar with both neighborhoods. The house on Broadway is at least close to the local college, and might make for a good rental. I would not say it is "downtown" like the ad claims, but you could get downtown in 15 minutes if you walk fast. It might be reasonable for a Seattle commuter by Ferry.
***"As for the street view, lots of areas start that way and then gentrify over time as more and more folks with resources move into the area and fix up their homes. The early adopters often make a killing on appreciation. "***
The house on 2nd Street is in a crap neighborhood, nowhere near 'downtown' or even a grocery store. If you fancy a neighborhood where houses are 10 feet apart, where the homes are mostly older mobiles, manufactured homes, and cheaply built - and/or old + neglected "stick built" homes, where there are many brokedown cars in driveways, junk filled yards, and Lots of Grown men riding BMX bicycles wearing backpacks [ meth user or dealer ] - you might like it.
That 2nd Street neighborhood will never Gentrify, its been sketchy for decades and will remain that way.
All that said, there are some very nice neighborhoods in that town, houses with architectural appeal, etc - just not the ones/areas that were picked as examples.
Let's assume that the substantial savings ($10-12k) on property taxes and insurance between a $200k house and a $800k house are poured into the $200k house over a ten year period of time, as is the difference between the required down payments. So, we're looking at $130-150k worth of improvements to the smaller house. Let's assume that the smaller house doesn't appreciate in value, it just keeps pace with inflation.
At the end of 10 years, the person buying the $200k house will have half a million dollars in their stash of index funds, given historical average rates of return (less inflation) just from investing the P&I savings from the smaller house. Even more if they didn't fix the place up so much. Plus, if the economy tanked and they lost their job, they would be more likely not to lose their house. They would be much more able to just up and leave for a different area if they wanted to without the weight of a big mortgage payment on their budget.
If they were maxing out their 401K in addition to the P&I savings on the mortgage, they could be FIRED in 10 years.
If they couldn't afford to invest at all with the bigger mortgage, the now could do so very successfully in the cheaper house.
For the right person in the right circumstances, this could be a really good financial move.
PS: To hear tell from middle class white folks in my area, the black part of town is nothing but a crime-ridden cesspool of drugs and violence. And yet I drive thru those neighborhoods and many of them are very well kept up, well maintained, and appear to be fine places to live. Working class neighborhoods tend to have better neighbors, they are more likely to go out of their way to help a neighbor out. I check the crime reports for different neighborhoods, affluent, working class and poor, and there's really not that big a difference between them.
PPS: There are plenty of drug dealers in more affluent areas too. They can just afford to be more discrete, so they don't stand out as much in the crowd.
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(https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/58fa77f67522cacd008b56e8-750-563.png)
Biggest topic of discussion at work today — the nearest Starbucks has closed down and now people will have to walk an extra three minutes to the next nearest Starbucks that’s one block down the street. Apparently that news ruined a lot of people’s day.
The consolation is that at least Starbucks delivers so you can just order it online and pay the extra delivery fee.
I think Lewis Black had a comedy routine about Starbucks being across the street from another Starbucks.
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I just picked Seattle because I've seen many comments in the press and from people in the area about how high the property costs are.
I didn't pick NYC or San Francisco because those are way more expensive than most areas in the country.
As for "most people" can't do it, most people don't try. It takes work, knowledge and time. Luck just makes that happen faster.
As I pointed out, over 1800 people in the last year bought living quarters for less than $200k in the Seattle area. Some had to spend money to fix them up right away, others could have waited awhile.
You only need one house. :) Seems to me that the potential to save $200k to $500k on one's living quarters would be worth a fair bit of effort.
Citation, please?
The Zillow link I posted above shows the count of houses sold in the $50k to $200k price range.
Respectfully, that data is absolute garbage. I don't know Bremerton, but I've lived in the greater Seattle area my whole life and have been actively monitoring the sub $450k market for several years hoping to find something that feels like a decent deal. I've toured dozens of homes and condos in that time and can definitely say that nearly all those listings are not actual open market sales (sold for $130k a month ago but "zestimate" is $900k, riiight). All you have to do is flip the "sold" filter to "for sale" and see what's left within 90 minutes of Seattle below $200k: tiny parcels of marginal land that will be challenging to build on, mobile homes (often in senior only communities) or houseboats on leased land/water, and a few teardowns on the very edges of that area.
There are plenty of smart, industrious, well off people with high risk tolerances in the Seattle market desperate for any whiff of a good deal. This is not an inefficient market. Anything truly under priced still goes quickly.
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Not from work, just read, but still, a finance tip:
Trouble with spending too much? Make three categories.
1. Needed 2. Wanted 4. Superfluous
and make a budget for each.
Wait! WTF? Budget?
If you need, buy. You cannot not buy if you need, after all. Why a budget? But even more - a budget for things you _don't_ want? Why would you lose money for things you don't want???
I very often get the vibe from people in our culture that they buy things just because... I dunno, because they haven't bought anything yet today? I think there's a not-insubstantial percentage of people for whom the idea of not spending money for an entire day would make them feel panicky/anxious.
I am holding a piece of paper, and I really don't give a shit about pieces of paper.
I can trade that piece of paper to someone in exchange for a thing that will make my grandkids happy, or a thing I can wear, or a thing that will make my car look cooler. And it's a lot less hastle than locating those things without spending money, and--by the way--I am already holding the money, anyway.
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I just picked Seattle because I've seen many comments in the press and from people in the area about how high the property costs are.
I didn't pick NYC or San Francisco because those are way more expensive than most areas in the country.
As for "most people" can't do it, most people don't try. It takes work, knowledge and time. Luck just makes that happen faster.
As I pointed out, over 1800 people in the last year bought living quarters for less than $200k in the Seattle area. Some had to spend money to fix them up right away, others could have waited awhile.
You only need one house. :) Seems to me that the potential to save $200k to $500k on one's living quarters would be worth a fair bit of effort.
Citation, please?
The Zillow link I posted above shows the count of houses sold in the $50k to $200k price range.
Respectfully, that data is absolute garbage. I don't know Bremerton, but I've lived in the greater Seattle area my whole life and have been actively monitoring the sub $450k market for several years hoping to find something that feels like a decent deal. I've toured dozens of homes and condos in that time and can definitely say that nearly all those listings are not actual open market sales (sold for $130k a month ago but "zestimate" is $900k, riiight). All you have to do is flip the "sold" filter to "for sale" and see what's left within 90 minutes of Seattle below $200k: tiny parcels of marginal land that will be challenging to build on, mobile homes (often in senior only communities) or houseboats on leased land/water, and a few teardowns on the very edges of that area.
There are plenty of smart, industrious, well off people with high risk tolerances in the Seattle market desperate for any whiff of a good deal. This is not an inefficient market. Anything truly under priced still goes quickly.
Ok, I flipped it from "sold" to "for sale". 76 properties for sale. Some may be too small for you but might be just right for others. Some might be expandable over time, like my parent's and prior generations used to do. Some are condos.
Some are in horrible condition, others appear to be in excellent condition.
You only need one.
FYI -- if you look at the pricing info tab on a property it will often list how often it has been offered for sale and at what price. It will show how many days the property has been on the market. There are ones on the market as I write this that have been available for months. One of the ones I mentioned previously had been on the market gobs of times over the last decade and didn't sell.
So, again, the properties are there, for sale, and some of them might be more than suitable for a mustachian family.
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I haven’t looked at the specific properties, but stuff that’s been on the market many times and for long times without selling is not likely a good deal. It probably has major issues that are preventing serious buyers at that price point.
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I haven’t looked at the specific properties, but stuff that’s been on the market many times and for long times without selling is not likely a good deal. It probably has major issues that are preventing serious buyers at that price point.
That will be true for some of the properties. Again, you only need one place to live in.
Someone who is renting can take time to learn real estate investment techniques and learn how to find and identify properties.
Honestly, the pushback on this is pretty much the same kind of pushback I see when we expose people to MMM techniques for getting ahead.
I'm not going to convince anyone new at this point, so I'm done.
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Some of those zillow links are serious garbage.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4208-E-Lynn-St-Seattle-WA-98112/97781953_zpid/
For instance, this house, that was listed at 2.2 million, sold for $200,000.
Something is wayyyy fishy there. And it's not the only one.
Zestimate
$201,366
ZESTIMATE RANGE
$191,000 - $211,000
LAST 30 DAY CHANGE
-$1,333,510 (-86.9 %)
ONE YEAR FORECAST
$202,171 (+0.4 %)
Zestimate history & details
Price / Tax History
Price HistoryTax History
DATE EVENT PRICE $/SQFT SOURCE
10/25/2019 Sold $200,000 -91.3% $70 --
6/8/2019 Listing removed $2,288,000 $806 Realogics Sotheby's International Realty
And this one, worth $800,000 sold for $131k? These must be gifts to the family where you must sell at least the land value or something. I'm not up to date on real estate law but these are not "real" real estate transactions that anyone can get in on.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/154-NE-53rd-St-Seattle-WA-98105/49143795_zpid/
Home Value
Zestimate
$800,381
ZESTIMATE RANGE
$752,000 - $848,000
LAST 30 DAY CHANGE
+$11,020 (+1.4 %)
ONE YEAR FORECAST
$800,461 (+0.0 %)
Zestimate history & details
Price / Tax History
Price HistoryTax History
DATE EVENT PRICE $/SQFT SOURCE
1/25/2019 Sold $27,000 +718.2% $18 Public Record
3/7/2001 Sold $3,300 $2 Public Record
There are a FEW really small, really tragic houses within a 5 mile radius of Seattle that are under <500k. But areas like Bremerton, Woodinville, Tacoma, etc. are all semi-affordable considering the price point in Seattle. If you are willing to commute, there's great places to live with good access to the outdoors and all that the PacNW offers. But Seattle proper is another story.
As often pointed out in FIRE movements, it's what you value and want to spend your money on.
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Some of those zillow links are serious garbage.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4208-E-Lynn-St-Seattle-WA-98112/97781953_zpid/
For instance, this house, that was listed at 2.2 million, sold for $200,000.
Something is wayyyy fishy there. And it's not the only one.
Zestimate
$201,366
ZESTIMATE RANGE
$191,000 - $211,000
LAST 30 DAY CHANGE
-$1,333,510 (-86.9 %)
ONE YEAR FORECAST
$202,171 (+0.4 %)
Zestimate history & details
Price / Tax History
Price HistoryTax History
DATE EVENT PRICE $/SQFT SOURCE
10/25/2019 Sold $200,000 -91.3% $70 --
6/8/2019 Listing removed $2,288,000 $806 Realogics Sotheby's International Realty
And this one, worth $800,000 sold for $131k? These must be gifts to the family where you must sell at least the land value or something. I'm not up to date on real estate law but these are not "real" real estate transactions that anyone can get in on.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/154-NE-53rd-St-Seattle-WA-98105/49143795_zpid/
Home Value
Zestimate
$800,381
ZESTIMATE RANGE
$752,000 - $848,000
LAST 30 DAY CHANGE
+$11,020 (+1.4 %)
ONE YEAR FORECAST
$800,461 (+0.0 %)
Zestimate history & details
Price / Tax History
Price HistoryTax History
DATE EVENT PRICE $/SQFT SOURCE
1/25/2019 Sold $27,000 +718.2% $18 Public Record
3/7/2001 Sold $3,300 $2 Public Record
There are a FEW really small, really tragic houses within a 5 mile radius of Seattle that are under <500k. But areas like Bremerton, Woodinville, Tacoma, etc. are all semi-affordable considering the price point in Seattle. If you are willing to commute, there's great places to live with good access to the outdoors and all that the PacNW offers. But Seattle proper is another story.
As often pointed out in FIRE movements, it's what you value and want to spend your money on.
So, this is all just some sort of conspiracy of thousands of real estate transactions for houses owned in less desireable areas by people who have so much money they know how to do this mysterious real estate technique?
Seriously?
Or, perhaps, it was just a typo by a careless realtor's assistant or homeowner who posted it for sale? Who typed 2288000 instead of 288000 and didn't proofread their work carefully?
One of the reason I put in a $50k bottom filter on my search was to avoid the veritable host of rental property managers who code the houses for sale when they mean for rent. I don't know whether they don't do it correctly because they are bad at their job or some marketing company has discovered they get better quality of renters from people looking for houses to buy. As in, "Honey, why buy at $800,000 when we can rent for a fraction of that a month?"
You have any idea how many houses for sale I've looked at online where the photos are posted upside down or sideways? I mean, really, how hard is that to get right?
There's no shortage of clueless, lazy, or inept folks entering in this data.
It's not like we don't see badly written signs in stores all the time... This country is chock full of people with piss-poor literary and/or numeric skills.
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In regards to both of the Bremerton properties listed by SwordGuy. I'm familiar with both neighborhoods. The house on Broadway is at least close to the local college, and might make for a good rental. I would not say it is "downtown" like the ad claims, but you could get downtown in 15 minutes if you walk fast. It might be reasonable for a Seattle commuter by Ferry.
***"As for the street view, lots of areas start that way and then gentrify over time as more and more folks with resources move into the area and fix up their homes. The early adopters often make a killing on appreciation. "***
The house on 2nd Street is in a crap neighborhood, nowhere near 'downtown' or even a grocery store. If you fancy a neighborhood where houses are 10 feet apart, where the homes are mostly older mobiles, manufactured homes, and cheaply built - and/or old + neglected "stick built" homes, where there are many brokedown cars in driveways, junk filled yards, and Lots of Grown men riding BMX bicycles wearing backpacks [ meth user or dealer ] - you might like it.
That 2nd Street neighborhood will never Gentrify, its been sketchy for decades and will remain that way.
All that said, there are some very nice neighborhoods in that town, houses with architectural appeal, etc - just not the ones/areas that were picked as examples.
Let's assume that the substantial savings ($10-12k) on property taxes and insurance between a $200k house and a $800k house are poured into the $200k house over a ten year period of time, as is the difference between the required down payments. So, we're looking at $130-150k worth of improvements to the smaller house. Let's assume that the smaller house doesn't appreciate in value, it just keeps pace with inflation.
At the end of 10 years, the person buying the $200k house will have half a million dollars in their stash of index funds, given historical average rates of return (less inflation) just from investing the P&I savings from the smaller house. Even more if they didn't fix the place up so much. Plus, if the economy tanked and they lost their job, they would be more likely not to lose their house. They would be much more able to just up and leave for a different area if they wanted to without the weight of a big mortgage payment on their budget.
If they were maxing out their 401K in addition to the P&I savings on the mortgage, they could be FIRED in 10 years.
If they couldn't afford to invest at all with the bigger mortgage, the now could do so very successfully in the cheaper house.
For the right person in the right circumstances, this could be a really good financial move.
PS: To hear tell from middle class white folks in my area, the black part of town is nothing but a crime-ridden cesspool of drugs and violence. And yet I drive thru those neighborhoods and many of them are very well kept up, well maintained, and appear to be fine places to live. Working class neighborhoods tend to have better neighbors, they are more likely to go out of their way to help a neighbor out. I check the crime reports for different neighborhoods, affluent, working class and poor, and there's really not that big a difference between them.
PPS: There are plenty of drug dealers in more affluent areas too. They can just afford to be more discrete, so they don't stand out as much in the crowd.
I get SwordGuy's point of the savings and stash building possible. But i'm saying that if a person buys that 2nd Ave house, they are going to be grimacing each time they drive through their neighborhood. Looking to see which pile of junk in their neighbors yard has grown, hoping the rats stay on the other side of the dilapidated fence. They'll often be worried about having their house broken into. They'll get tired of the yelling late at night by the drunks down the block. --It's just not a nice place versus the well kept, well maintained, friendly neighbor, but verbally downtrodden, area SG is giving as an example.
What is the sense in living in relative squalor [ for america ] with the idea of 'someday' moving out >10 years in the future , or FIREing in a neighborhood they have grown to resent ?
Yes there are drug dealers/users supplying affluent areas also, but they are generally not crusing around at 30 yrs old on a BMX bike, casing out the properties, they ride past for future theft. I imagine there is also a prevalence of people living in "the hood" to underreport thefts, and fistfights, and drug deals.
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What I object to is folks telling others that a path doesn't exist when what's really true is that they themselves don't want to take that path.
[Snip]
What I object to is someone who thinks a path exists when what's really true is that they themselves live in a situation that doesn't exist everywhere else. Not everyone has DIY skills, the cash reserves available to live in two places while they rehab a piece of shit house, the ready cash to do so, or the ability to homeschool. Nor should they.
You do you, because you're great at it, but please don't be so unequivocal that everyone who doesn't have your opportunities and skill set is doing something wrong.
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What I object to is folks telling others that a path doesn't exist when what's really true is that they themselves don't want to take that path.
[Snip]
What I object to is someone who thinks a path exists when what's really true is that they themselves live in a situation that doesn't exist everywhere else. Not everyone has DIY skills, the cash reserves available to live in two places while they rehab a piece of shit house, the ready cash to do so, or the ability to homeschool. Nor should they.
You do you, because you're great at it, but please don't be so unequivocal that everyone who doesn't have your opportunities and skill set is doing something wrong.
All of this comes down to one simple truth - no one is an expert on life. They may be an expert on their OWN life, but that differs from every other life on the planet because of ability, circumstance, opportunity and plain old luck. All you can do is offer what worked for you, and all you can do is take advice that worked for someone else and try to shape it to your life.
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In regards to both of the Bremerton properties listed by SwordGuy. I'm familiar with both neighborhoods. The house on Broadway is at least close to the local college, and might make for a good rental. I would not say it is "downtown" like the ad claims, but you could get downtown in 15 minutes if you walk fast. It might be reasonable for a Seattle commuter by Ferry.
***"As for the street view, lots of areas start that way and then gentrify over time as more and more folks with resources move into the area and fix up their homes. The early adopters often make a killing on appreciation. "***
The house on 2nd Street is in a crap neighborhood, nowhere near 'downtown' or even a grocery store. If you fancy a neighborhood where houses are 10 feet apart, where the homes are mostly older mobiles, manufactured homes, and cheaply built - and/or old + neglected "stick built" homes, where there are many brokedown cars in driveways, junk filled yards, and Lots of Grown men riding BMX bicycles wearing backpacks [ meth user or dealer ] - you might like it.
That 2nd Street neighborhood will never Gentrify, its been sketchy for decades and will remain that way.
All that said, there are some very nice neighborhoods in that town, houses with architectural appeal, etc - just not the ones/areas that were picked as examples.
Let's assume that the substantial savings ($10-12k) on property taxes and insurance between a $200k house and a $800k house are poured into the $200k house over a ten year period of time, as is the difference between the required down payments. So, we're looking at $130-150k worth of improvements to the smaller house. Let's assume that the smaller house doesn't appreciate in value, it just keeps pace with inflation.
At the end of 10 years, the person buying the $200k house will have half a million dollars in their stash of index funds, given historical average rates of return (less inflation) just from investing the P&I savings from the smaller house. Even more if they didn't fix the place up so much. Plus, if the economy tanked and they lost their job, they would be more likely not to lose their house. They would be much more able to just up and leave for a different area if they wanted to without the weight of a big mortgage payment on their budget.
If they were maxing out their 401K in addition to the P&I savings on the mortgage, they could be FIRED in 10 years.
If they couldn't afford to invest at all with the bigger mortgage, the now could do so very successfully in the cheaper house.
For the right person in the right circumstances, this could be a really good financial move.
PS: To hear tell from middle class white folks in my area, the black part of town is nothing but a crime-ridden cesspool of drugs and violence. And yet I drive thru those neighborhoods and many of them are very well kept up, well maintained, and appear to be fine places to live. Working class neighborhoods tend to have better neighbors, they are more likely to go out of their way to help a neighbor out. I check the crime reports for different neighborhoods, affluent, working class and poor, and there's really not that big a difference between them.
PPS: There are plenty of drug dealers in more affluent areas too. They can just afford to be more discrete, so they don't stand out as much in the crowd.
I get SwordGuy's point of the savings and stash building possible. But i'm saying that if a person buys that 2nd Ave house, they are going to be grimacing each time they drive through their neighborhood. Looking to see which pile of junk in their neighbors yard has grown, hoping the rats stay on the other side of the dilapidated fence. They'll often be worried about having their house broken into. They'll get tired of the yelling late at night by the drunks down the block. --It's just not a nice place versus the well kept, well maintained, friendly neighbor, but verbally downtrodden, area SG is giving as an example.
What is the sense in living in relative squalor [ for america ] with the idea of 'someday' moving out >10 years in the future , or FIREing in a neighborhood they have grown to resent ?
Yes there are drug dealers/users supplying affluent areas also, but they are generally not crusing around at 30 yrs old on a BMX bike, casing out the properties, they ride past for future theft. I imagine there is also a prevalence of people living in "the hood" to underreport thefts, and fistfights, and drug deals.
Ah well I'm in a neighbourhood that was never going to gentrify and would always remain a dump. Until it did. I think all neighbourhoods in my city have more or less gentrified now.
Doesn't mean there's no crime at all anymore (on the contrary, organised drug crime is a real issue) but the crime isn't on the streets anymore. As an ordinary person I can walk around in this city without ever being confronted with violence or drug dealing. Some of my neighbours still have dilapidated homes and they think loud latenight parties are normal, but now the area is safe those aren't big issues. And it turns out that most people, including the ones who have been here for decades, are decent people.
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Consider a car loan: I work with dozens of people who buy new cars every couple years, presumably rolling over their loans. This seemed silly to me because I didn't understand why someone would pay five figures for heated seats or new rims, when their existing car does 95% of the new one. But if you only look at payments, you might think it's worth it. (Of course, it isn't)
So really it comes down to the fact that people don't save the capital to buy an asset like a car, so they're always playing this psychological financing game with themselves.
I can't tell you how many people I know think that paying off a car loan means that it's time to start shopping for a new car. I guess that's better than rolling negative equity into a new loan, but come on man.
Apparently, the universe has decided that whenever I pay off a car loan, it's time to total the car. Never mind that I had every intention of keeping the car!
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What I object to is folks telling others that a path doesn't exist when what's really true is that they themselves don't want to take that path.
[Snip]
What I object to is someone who thinks a path exists when what's really true is that they themselves live in a situation that doesn't exist everywhere else. Not everyone has DIY skills, the cash reserves available to live in two places while they rehab a piece of shit house, the ready cash to do so, or the ability to homeschool. Nor should they.
You do you, because you're great at it, but please don't be so unequivocal that everyone who doesn't have your opportunities and skill set is doing something wrong.
I skimmed over the back-and-forth on this point, and I didn't read @SwordGuy 's posts that way. I read them saying that there is another option, be it unpalatable to you or not. I didn't read them as if they said that other options are wrong, just that they exist, and to deny that they exist is the thing he believes to be wrong.
/unsolicited opinion
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What I object to is folks telling others that a path doesn't exist when what's really true is that they themselves don't want to take that path.
[Snip]
What I object to is someone who thinks a path exists when what's really true is that they themselves live in a situation that doesn't exist everywhere else. Not everyone has DIY skills, the cash reserves available to live in two places while they rehab a piece of shit house, the ready cash to do so, or the ability to homeschool. Nor should they.
You do you, because you're great at it, but please don't be so unequivocal that everyone who doesn't have your opportunities and skill set is doing something wrong.
I skimmed over the back-and-forth on this point, and I didn't read @SwordGuy 's posts that way. I read them saying that there is another option, be it unpalatable to you or not. I didn't read them as if they said that other options are wrong, just that they exist, and to deny that they exist is the thing he believes to be wrong.
/unsolicited opinion
Thank you, @TVRodriguez , that is EXACTLY the point I was trying to make. My apologies to others for not being clear enough.
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Or, perhaps, it was just a typo by a careless realtor's assistant or homeowner who posted it for sale? Who typed 2288000 instead of 288000 and didn't proofread their work carefully?
You think a mansion on the water in Madison park is $200K? Really? It's clear you don't know this area and are just being argumentative.
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soooooooo, did anyone over hear anything at work today?
It's really quite in my office today.
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soooooooo, did anyone over hear anything at work today?
It's really quite in my office today.
CW: Come eat lunch with us! It's good for team-building...
Me: No thanks, I try to keep my lunch to 15 minutes so that I can catch the early train and get more family time. I only get about 1.5 hours with my kid on workdays.
CW: Wanting to spend time with your family will fade.
Wanting to eat out and more interested in spending time at work than with family? I'll pass.
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because @insufFIcientfunds asked:
Govt employee in next row stated she is using funds from her TSP (retirement plan) to pay off her truck. Also she's looking at the website for the upcoming Tesla Model Y because she needs an SUV. (Lady is older, single, with no kids.)
She asked how to spell Tesla. She thought it was "Tesslar/Tessler", despite her stating she's been seeing them on the roads daily for a few years.
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WOW! Thanks guys. I got a good chuckle out of those!
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because @insufFIcientfunds asked:
Govt employee in next row stated she is using funds from her TSP (retirement plan) to pay off her truck. Also she's looking at the website for the upcoming Tesla Model Y because she needs an SUV. (Lady is older, single, with no kids.)
She asked how to spell Tesla. She thought it was "Tesslar/Tessler", despite her stating she's been seeing them on the roads daily for a few years.
this is so sad.....she's interested in buying a car that she can't spell.....and it's not like Tesla isn't in the news often enough, and there are enough of them on the road......while I get some amusement out of this and get to be judgy, it's sad that someone 'older' doesn't have the sense/intelligence/wherewithal to avoid this trap.
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Consider a car loan: I work with dozens of people who buy new cars every couple years, presumably rolling over their loans. This seemed silly to me because I didn't understand why someone would pay five figures for heated seats or new rims, when their existing car does 95% of the new one. But if you only look at payments, you might think it's worth it. (Of course, it isn't)
So really it comes down to the fact that people don't save the capital to buy an asset like a car, so they're always playing this psychological financing game with themselves.
I can't tell you how many people I know think that paying off a car loan means that it's time to start shopping for a new car. I guess that's better than rolling negative equity into a new loan, but come on man.
Apparently, the universe has decided that whenever I pay off a car loan, it's time to total the car. Never mind that I had every intention of keeping the car!
That sucks--lots of bad drivers around you or maybe it's your subconscious pushing you to get a new car and pushing you into accidents. Just kidding. Glad you have been able to walk away from the totaled cars!
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Consider a car loan: I work with dozens of people who buy new cars every couple years, presumably rolling over their loans. This seemed silly to me because I didn't understand why someone would pay five figures for heated seats or new rims, when their existing car does 95% of the new one. But if you only look at payments, you might think it's worth it. (Of course, it isn't)
So really it comes down to the fact that people don't save the capital to buy an asset like a car, so they're always playing this psychological financing game with themselves.
I can't tell you how many people I know think that paying off a car loan means that it's time to start shopping for a new car. I guess that's better than rolling negative equity into a new loan, but come on man.
Apparently, the universe has decided that whenever I pay off a car loan, it's time to total the car. Never mind that I had every intention of keeping the car!
That sucks--lots of bad drivers around you or maybe it's your subconscious pushing you to get a new car and pushing you into accidents. Just kidding. Glad you have been able to walk away from the totaled cars!
The first one was barely an accident - I got stuck in a snowbank due to black ice, then another car hit the same ice and then hit me. Damaged the frame. I'm sure they stripped the car and made a bunch selling the parts, it was just the back end that was damaged. Engine and most non-frame parts were fine.
2nd time was just a few months ago. Car was parked in the street, got 7+ inches of rain in less than 6 hours, and the street turned into a river. The water rose so quickly that it was too late to do anything - trying to move it would have flooded it worse than it already was. I checked the car the next day and just called the insurance company then pulled everything out. You can't really fix that amount of water on the electronics. At least the house didn't flood - I helped a neighbor do some clean up in his garage, he lost a ton of stuff.
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She asked how to spell Tesla. She thought it was "Tesslar/Tessler"
Maybe she plans to do a lot of Tessling.
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Consider a car loan: I work with dozens of people who buy new cars every couple years, presumably rolling over their loans. This seemed silly to me because I didn't understand why someone would pay five figures for heated seats or new rims, when their existing car does 95% of the new one. But if you only look at payments, you might think it's worth it. (Of course, it isn't)
So really it comes down to the fact that people don't save the capital to buy an asset like a car, so they're always playing this psychological financing game with themselves.
I can't tell you how many people I know think that paying off a car loan means that it's time to start shopping for a new car. I guess that's better than rolling negative equity into a new loan, but come on man.
Apparently, the universe has decided that whenever I pay off a car loan, it's time to total the car. Never mind that I had every intention of keeping the car!
That sucks--lots of bad drivers around you or maybe it's your subconscious pushing you to get a new car and pushing you into accidents. Just kidding. Glad you have been able to walk away from the totaled cars!
The first one was barely an accident - I got stuck in a snowbank due to black ice, then another car hit the same ice and then hit me. Damaged the frame. I'm sure they stripped the car and made a bunch selling the parts, it was just the back end that was damaged. Engine and most non-frame parts were fine.
2nd time was just a few months ago. Car was parked in the street, got 7+ inches of rain in less than 6 hours, and the street turned into a river. The water rose so quickly that it was too late to do anything - trying to move it would have flooded it worse than it already was. I checked the car the next day and just called the insurance company then pulled everything out. You can't really fix that amount of water on the electronics. At least the house didn't flood - I helped a neighbor do some clean up in his garage, he lost a ton of stuff.
That sucks. I paid off a car last February. Two weeks after it was paid off, literally the day that I got the title in the mail from the state, a tornado hit my neighborhood. The car wasn't totaled then thankfully, but my husband hit a slick spot on the road a few months later and ran it into a concrete culvert. That bent the frame and set off the airbags. At least with all the tornado recovery, I hadn't gotten around to dropping full coverage insurance on it yet....
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I got an SPCA dog. The shelters here have pitbull mixes, husky mixes, cane corso, and other agressive breeds. The few that arent' were actually flown in from another country (I am not supporting killing local animals and flying in out of country ones), and a few with special "quirks" which is why they are given up.
The spay and neuter program has been very successful around here, that is evident.
What the cost with my dog is -- ok, maybe $1000 all in for adoption fee, vaccinations, crate, toys and food (and a private trainer sessions because of those "quirks").
What the higher cost is?
It is very difficult to have a dog without a car.
I can leave her at home to run errands, or take her with me in a car. We can't bike to all the best walking spots. I need a car to take her to the vet.
I also can't rent a place around here if I have a dog, so locked into higher cost place away from apartment buildings and more into suburbia where a bike or car is needed.
Look for a bicycle kid trailer. Put your dog inside and zip/velcro closed. They get a breeze and can look out the window just like in a car.
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I just picked Seattle because I've seen many comments in the press and from people in the area about how high the property costs are.
I didn't pick NYC or San Francisco because those are way more expensive than most areas in the country.
As for "most people" can't do it, most people don't try. It takes work, knowledge and time. Luck just makes that happen faster.
As I pointed out, over 1800 people in the last year bought living quarters for less than $200k in the Seattle area. Some had to spend money to fix them up right away, others could have waited awhile.
You only need one house. :) Seems to me that the potential to save $200k to $500k on one's living quarters would be worth a fair bit of effort.
Citation, please?
The Zillow link I posted above shows the count of houses sold in the $50k to $200k price range.
Respectfully, that data is absolute garbage. I don't know Bremerton, but I've lived in the greater Seattle area my whole life and have been actively monitoring the sub $450k market for several years hoping to find something that feels like a decent deal. I've toured dozens of homes and condos in that time and can definitely say that nearly all those listings are not actual open market sales (sold for $130k a month ago but "zestimate" is $900k, riiight). All you have to do is flip the "sold" filter to "for sale" and see what's left within 90 minutes of Seattle below $200k: tiny parcels of marginal land that will be challenging to build on, mobile homes (often in senior only communities) or houseboats on leased land/water, and a few teardowns on the very edges of that area.
There are plenty of smart, industrious, well off people with high risk tolerances in the Seattle market desperate for any whiff of a good deal. This is not an inefficient market. Anything truly under priced still goes quickly.
Ok, I flipped it from "sold" to "for sale". 76 properties for sale. Some may be too small for you but might be just right for others. Some might be expandable over time, like my parent's and prior generations used to do. Some are condos.
Some are in horrible condition, others appear to be in excellent condition.
You only need one.
FYI -- if you look at the pricing info tab on a property it will often list how often it has been offered for sale and at what price. It will show how many days the property has been on the market. There are ones on the market as I write this that have been available for months. One of the ones I mentioned previously had been on the market gobs of times over the last decade and didn't sell.
So, again, the properties are there, for sale, and some of them might be more than suitable for a mustachian family.
Of that 76, quite a few listings are "We will build this home on the land you provide and develop". That home price is $170k+... plus land, plus city connections / development, plus landscaping, plus appliances, etc.
I would have thought Zillow would filter out the "homes" that are just ads by contractors.
SwordGuy, you make an excellent argument to people to look around to buy less home, and save a lot of money by doing so. Example, you second Bremerton "house" is actually a 25 year old mobile home. What's wrong with saving money by living in an older mobile home that is fixed up nicely?
I think pulling from Zillow and insisting that these homes are available is a bit delusional, and your valid points are getting knocked down because of that.
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I haven’t looked at the specific properties, but stuff that’s been on the market many times and for long times without selling is not likely a good deal. It probably has major issues that are preventing serious buyers at that price point.
I've seen this in my neighborhood too, not Seattle.
If homes have gone on sale over and over for years or decades, they have already been priced about $200k high. They are rentals where the owner is trying to cash in. And they paid next to nothing but instead of selling a $1M house for that, they want 1.25 million.
The other things that I see, mentioned above, is sales to family. Some in cases of divorce. Look this house was only $324k? No that's Peters house, he and his wife split, he bought her out.
The final thing I've seen, once, literal teardown.
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Of that 76, quite a few listings are "We will build this home on the land you provide and develop". That home price is $170k+... plus land, plus city connections / development, plus landscaping, plus appliances, etc.
I would have thought Zillow would filter out the "homes" that are just ads by contractors.
SwordGuy, you make an excellent argument to people to look around to buy less home, and save a lot of money by doing so. Example, you second Bremerton "house" is actually a 25 year old mobile home. What's wrong with saving money by living in an older mobile home that is fixed up nicely?
I think pulling from Zillow and insisting that these homes are available is a bit delusional, and your valid points are getting knocked down because of that.
There absolutely are incorrectly coded items on Zillow. No contest. Gobs of them.
I'm not insisting that **ALL** the listings on Zillow are worthwhile. No one should walk away from this discussion believing that Zillow is 100% accurate.
It is **more** accurate for sold data than it is on "for sale" data. So, let's make some assumptions on the data quality and what that means.
Please note that I'm discussing actual transfers of property, not offers for sale in the next section. It's an important distinction.
I posted a link for a search for 1+ bedroom, 1+ bathroom living quarters that were sold in the last year, from $50k to $200k in price.
Over 1800 showed up as having been sold.
Let's suppose that Zillow's data quality on those sales and that property is inaccurate on the order of 50%.
That's right, we're assuming that 50% of the items in that search criteria don't really qualify.
So, instead of over 1800 qualified properties sold in the last year, that would get us down to 900.
You only need one home to live in. Those looking for a home in the Seattle area could have been one of those 900 buyers.
Let's assume the data is 75% inaccurate. Now we're down to only 450 qualifying properties that were sold in the last year.
Again, you only need one home to live in. You'll have to work harder or be a mite luckier than for 900, but 450 buyers did it. Why not one of us?
Now let's talk about the "for sale" portion. There are inaccuracies there, too.
I've slogged thru hundreds of properties online in my area and realized that a goodly number of them are miscoded and aren't of interest. Some of them look good (or at least plausible) online so I go look at them in person. I've walked away from scores of properties that either didn't measure up to the online description or the online description was too useless to be sure one way or the other.
And yet I've still bought 9 distressed homes for below market value. It was work to find them. Two of them I was particularly interested in took several years each. I found more than 9 that would be suitable, but sometimes I got outbid, sometimes I didn't have the money to buy all I found.
There are documented real estate searching techniques that real estate investors use to find properties to at below market. Will they work for every single person in every single market at every single point in time? HELL NO!
The one thing I can absolutely guarantee is that if you don't try using them they won't work for you.
The Real Estate and Landlording sub-forum has a sticky-thread with books and websites to read. Your local library will probably have some of them.
With time and persistence, and possibly a touch of luck, folks might find much more affordable living quarters. There will be trade-offs that will be fine for some and not for others. Okey-dokey.
I'll close with an observation on the nature of this discussion. The objections to even trying this bear a whole lot of resemblance to those folks who refuse to try FIRE principles. Think about it.
Maybe someone is right about their specific real estate market. Maybe it won't work in (fill in the blank real estate market name here) at (fill in the time period here). Could be. Then again, it might.
For someone motivated enough by the chance to save tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands, I say it's worth a try. You might look at hundreds of properties online and scores in person before you find a property that's right for you -- and you still might be outbid. Then again, you might not be outbid and save a bundle.
If nothing else, it might save you a bit on one of those expensive properties. After you look at a four dozen houses that need work you start to learn what to look for and what it would cost to fix it. That's useful knowledge!
That knowledge might also help a friend or family member in a more suitable market save a bundle. That's good too.
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I haven’t looked at the specific properties, but stuff that’s been on the market many times and for long times without selling is not likely a good deal. It probably has major issues that are preventing serious buyers at that price point.
I've seen this in my neighborhood too, not Seattle.
If homes have gone on sale over and over for years or decades, they have already been priced about $200k high. They are rentals where the owner is trying to cash in. And they paid next to nothing but instead of selling a $1M house for that, they want 1.25 million.
After being chastised so strongly for suggesting that it might be possible to find living quarters at much lower prices, the irony of someone observing that the prices I've found might be too high makes me chuckle. :)
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soooooooo, did anyone over hear anything at work today?
It's really quite in my office today.
CW: Come eat lunch with us! It's good for team-building...
Me: No thanks, I try to keep my lunch to 15 minutes so that I can catch the early train and get more family time. I only get about 1.5 hours with my kid on workdays.
CW: Wanting to spend time with your family will fade.
Wanting to eat out and more interested in spending time at work than with family? I'll pass.
I wish people didn’t buy mindlessly into the “buy a big house/get married/have a bunch of kids/spend way too much time at work” trope. I encounter many adults who seem to want nothing more than to escape the life they’ve created for themselves and act like their lives just happened to them. Seriously, people, wake up and make up your own minds about major life decisions.
DadJokes, I think it’s lovely that you prioritize time with your kid. I wish my dad had done that.
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I haven’t looked at the specific properties, but stuff that’s been on the market many times and for long times without selling is not likely a good deal. It probably has major issues that are preventing serious buyers at that price point.
I've seen this in my neighborhood too, not Seattle.
If homes have gone on sale over and over for years or decades, they have already been priced about $200k high. They are rentals where the owner is trying to cash in. And they paid next to nothing but instead of selling a $1M house for that, they want 1.25 million.
After being chastised so strongly for suggesting that it might be possible to find living quarters at much lower prices, the irony of someone observing that the prices I've found might be too high makes me chuckle. :)
Just because something is cheap doesn’t make it a good deal. I thought your point was that there were good deals on cheap and habitable homes. But forgive me, it’s been a drawn out multilateral discussion. What was your main point? I have a feeling we all fundamentally agree more than out nitpicking of specifics would suggest
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I encounter many adults who seem to want nothing more than to escape the life they’ve created for themselves and act like their lives just happened to them. Seriously, people, wake up and make up your own minds about major life decisions.
Well said.
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I'm from the same area as Imma, and vacation homes in general cannot be registered as official address.
Our bank offered us 6.5x my income as mortgage; I refused and didn't want to take out more than 4.5x my income. I knew my income was going to go up and husband would be starting to work soon. He did, and then our mortgage was just 2.5x our income. We bought a home in a small village, that needed a lot of renovation we couldn't do ourselves, so we paid out around €50,000 for renovations, and received around €10,000 in subsidies for those renovations :)
Our kitchen extension (there when we bought the house) has now started to leak, so we will have more renovations coming up, this time with a proper architect to maximize any changes we (need to) make, and make this house liveable for the next 40 years. I don't want to leave the village, having settled in, and properties that are coming on to the market right now are all fixer-uppers for at least €300,000. My commute (by electric bike) is only 30 minutes, and as commutes are a waste of time, I don't want to move further out.
Yeah the market is insane these days :( Just the other day I saw a tiny one bedroom apartment in my neighbourhood for sale for €200k. Most people haven't paid that for a house in this area, we certainly didn't! The building is awful, the kind of place where all the balconies look like a dump and you'd pay about €800 in mortgage and service costs for the privilege of living there + bills, taxes etc. The average net income is 2100/month in our country and this isn't a HCOL city. Renting from a private landlord would be even more expensive.
I wish more cities would be a little more laid back about vacation homes. A friend of mine lived in one for a couple of years and it was lovely. I think they registered at their parents house (which can affect people negatively financially sometimes, it can be risky) and they lived in a really nice 2 bedroom place in a corner of a park, surrounded by trees. It was almost like living in the middle of the woods.
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@Imma, I don't understand about "vacation homes" and not allowing people to live in them year round. Why not allow it? Is there something different about them?
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I don't understand about "vacation homes" and not allowing people to live in them year round. Why not allow it? Is there something different about them?
These houses don't have a residential destination, just a recreational destination. Nothing really different about them and most of them are perfectly suited to live in. It is just not allowed. The idea is that people who recreate spend more money than people who live, because they are on a holiday. Also often these houses are in more vulnerable environments like woods and the building demands for recreational houses are less strict. There may be more reasons, most of them tax related I would guess. I think this is a thing in the Netherland only, not in other countries in Europe. And municipalities can decide to allow it after all, but most don’t.
It is also not very easy to get permission to live in a tiny house or a trailer in the Netherlands, probably for more or less the same reasons.
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I know someone who lives on a houseboat in Yellowknife. Think a regular house on a floating platform. He doesn't have to pay property taxes, but he has to shit in a bag. Other than that it sounds like an awesome deal, he's pretty self sufficient out there with solar and propane.
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Today we ate cake at work for my second last day (because tomorrow is a chaos day at work with achristmas food all day). I have told my coworkers I am taking a whole year off (but it is FIRE). My boss told me again that taking a year off is pure luxury. She said she couldn't do it, because she is too much in debt, which I think means mortgage debt. And she presumed everybody else was in the same debt situation. Most of my coworkers are 40+ and my boss must be approaching 50.
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Today we ate cake at work for my second last day (because tomorrow is a chaos day at work with achristmas food all day). I have told my coworkers I am taking a whole year off (but it is FIRE). My boss told me again that taking a year off is pure luxury. She said she couldn't do it, because she is too much in debt, which I think means mortgage debt. And she presumed everybody else was in the same debt situation. Most of my coworkers are 40+ and my boss must be approaching 50.
Congratulations! Maybe your boss will learn something from this.
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Today we ate cake at work for my second last day (because tomorrow is a chaos day at work with achristmas food all day). I have told my coworkers I am taking a whole year off (but it is FIRE). My boss told me again that taking a year off is pure luxury. She said she couldn't do it, because she is too much in debt, which I think means mortgage debt. And she presumed everybody else was in the same debt situation. Most of my coworkers are 40+ and my boss must be approaching 50.
Does cake taste better when you know tomorrow is your last day at work? Congratulations!
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Today we ate cake at work for my second last day (because tomorrow is a chaos day at work with achristmas food all day). I have told my coworkers I am taking a whole year off (but it is FIRE). My boss told me again that taking a year off is pure luxury. She said she couldn't do it, because she is too much in debt, which I think means mortgage debt. And she presumed everybody else was in the same debt situation. Most of my coworkers are 40+ and my boss must be approaching 50.
Does cake taste better when you know tomorrow is your last day at work? Congratulations!
It tasted very good. The text on the cake was "have a nice trip", as I told them I will have lots of outdoor trips.
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Today we ate cake at work for my second last day (because tomorrow is a chaos day at work with achristmas food all day). I have told my coworkers I am taking a whole year off (but it is FIRE). My boss told me again that taking a year off is pure luxury. She said she couldn't do it, because she is too much in debt, which I think means mortgage debt. And she presumed everybody else was in the same debt situation. Most of my coworkers are 40+ and my boss must be approaching 50.
Does cake taste better when you know tomorrow is your last day at work? Congratulations!
It tasted very good. The text on the cake was "have a nice trip", as I told them I will have lots of outdoor trips.
If my cake doesn't look like the one below at my eventual retirement, I'll be extremely disappointed.
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I don't understand about "vacation homes" and not allowing people to live in them year round. Why not allow it? Is there something different about them?
These houses don't have a residential destination, just a recreational destination. Nothing really different about them and most of them are perfectly suited to live in. It is just not allowed. The idea is that people who recreate spend more money than people who live, because they are on a holiday. Also often these houses are in more vulnerable environments like woods and the building demands for recreational houses are less strict. There may be more reasons, most of them tax related I would guess. I think this is a thing in the Netherland only, not in other countries in Europe. And municipalities can decide to allow it after all, but most don’t.
It is also not very easy to get permission to live in a tiny house or a trailer in the Netherlands, probably for more or less the same reasons.
These laws originate from the days that slum housing was an issue (early 20th century) so the intent was good. Basically anything that Americans would call a trailer is not considered fit for permanent living. During the second half of the 29th century urban planning also really took off and there's a string desire to plan neat and tidy neighbourhoods instead of people building what they like, where they like.
There are good sides to this as well: there's a pretty clear distinction between rural and urban areas and we try to protect vulnerable landscapes. But in our tiny country the housing shortage is very extreme and it does cause an 'underclass' of people who live in illegal housing situations, who are therefore more vulnerable because they live in fear of being kicked out. These people are either formally homeless or they are registed at an address they don't formally live at, which can create it's own set of problems for all parties involved.
For this reason home ownership is extremely important to me. It's the only way to guarantee a good place to live and because it's a bit bigger than we need we have been able to offer friends short term, legal roofs over their head. It took us a while to get to where we are now and we love to help out others in the same situation as we were.
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I don't understand about "vacation homes" and not allowing people to live in them year round. Why not allow it? Is there something different about them?
These houses don't have a residential destination, just a recreational destination. Nothing really different about them and most of them are perfectly suited to live in. It is just not allowed. The idea is that people who recreate spend more money than people who live, because they are on a holiday. Also often these houses are in more vulnerable environments like woods and the building demands for recreational houses are less strict. There may be more reasons, most of them tax related I would guess. I think this is a thing in the Netherland only, not in other countries in Europe. And municipalities can decide to allow it after all, but most don’t.
It is also not very easy to get permission to live in a tiny house or a trailer in the Netherlands, probably for more or less the same reasons.
These laws originate from the days that slum housing was an issue (early 20th century) so the intent was good. Basically anything that Americans would call a trailer is not considered fit for permanent living. During the second half of the 29th century urban planning also really took off and there's a string desire to plan neat and tidy neighbourhoods instead of people building what they like, where they like.
There are good sides to this as well: there's a pretty clear distinction between rural and urban areas and we try to protect vulnerable landscapes. But in our tiny country the housing shortage is very extreme and it does cause an 'underclass' of people who live in illegal housing situations, who are therefore more vulnerable because they live in fear of being kicked out. These people are either formally homeless or they are registed at an address they don't formally live at, which can create it's own set of problems for all parties involved.
For this reason home ownership is extremely important to me. It's the only way to guarantee a good place to live and because it's a bit bigger than we need we have been able to offer friends short term, legal roofs over their head. It took us a while to get to where we are now and we love to help out others in the same situation as we were.
That's what's a little surprising to me about this. In many places in the US, the municipalities specifically try to restrict short-term vacation rentals, which otherwise tend to take over and replace the affordable long-term rentals. So this Netherlands regulation seems exactly backwards from my perspective.
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I don't understand about "vacation homes" and not allowing people to live in them year round. Why not allow it? Is there something different about them?
These houses don't have a residential destination, just a recreational destination. Nothing really different about them and most of them are perfectly suited to live in. It is just not allowed. The idea is that people who recreate spend more money than people who live, because they are on a holiday. Also often these houses are in more vulnerable environments like woods and the building demands for recreational houses are less strict. There may be more reasons, most of them tax related I would guess. I think this is a thing in the Netherland only, not in other countries in Europe. And municipalities can decide to allow it after all, but most don’t.
It is also not very easy to get permission to live in a tiny house or a trailer in the Netherlands, probably for more or less the same reasons.
These laws originate from the days that slum housing was an issue (early 20th century) so the intent was good. Basically anything that Americans would call a trailer is not considered fit for permanent living. During the second half of the 29th century urban planning also really took off and there's a string desire to plan neat and tidy neighbourhoods instead of people building what they like, where they like.
There are good sides to this as well: there's a pretty clear distinction between rural and urban areas and we try to protect vulnerable landscapes. But in our tiny country the housing shortage is very extreme and it does cause an 'underclass' of people who live in illegal housing situations, who are therefore more vulnerable because they live in fear of being kicked out. These people are either formally homeless or they are registed at an address they don't formally live at, which can create it's own set of problems for all parties involved.
For this reason home ownership is extremely important to me. It's the only way to guarantee a good place to live and because it's a bit bigger than we need we have been able to offer friends short term, legal roofs over their head. It took us a while to get to where we are now and we love to help out others in the same situation as we were.
That's what's a little surprising to me about this. In many places in the US, the municipalities specifically try to restrict short-term vacation rentals, which otherwise tend to take over and replace the affordable long-term rentals. So this Netherlands regulation seems exactly backwards from my perspective.
The US has plenty of places that are prohibited from full time occupation, as well. This is especially true in rural vacation areas (my family has such a cabin), but another common prohibition is living on your boat in protected waters.
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That's what's a little surprising to me about this. In many places in the US, the municipalities specifically try to restrict short-term vacation rentals, which otherwise tend to take over and replace the affordable long-term rentals. So this Netherlands regulation seems exactly backwards from my perspective.
Here too. Many tourist-y cities have restrictions. Like Berlin, which also has quite strict rent constrol laws.
It is no surprise landlords prefer a vacation home that they can rent for 1000€ three weeks a month to a normal renter who pays just one time 1000€ for the whole month. Especially if you are obstructed to increase normal rents.
They may have an eye opening moment when their cleaning lady quits because she cannot live inside 20km anymore, but by then it is too late.
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The US has plenty of places that are prohibited from full time occupation, as well. This is especially true in rural vacation areas (my family has such a cabin), but another common prohibition is living on your boat in protected waters.
I have never heard of such a thing in the US. The rural cabins I'm familiar with would be inhospitable during the winter, but I'm not sure who would prevent you from staying on your own property? How is such a thing enforced?
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The US has plenty of places that are prohibited from full time occupation, as well. This is especially true in rural vacation areas (my family has such a cabin), but another common prohibition is living on your boat in protected waters.
I have never heard of such a thing in the US. The rural cabins I'm familiar with would be inhospitable during the winter, but I'm not sure who would prevent you from staying on your own property? How is such a thing enforced?
Maybe it's more of a "you're on your own, stay at your own risk" sort of policy. Like, if you have a remote cabin in unincorporated territory in the northern US, you can't reasonably expect timely emergency services during winter.
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The US has plenty of places that are prohibited from full time occupation, as well. This is especially true in rural vacation areas (my family has such a cabin), but another common prohibition is living on your boat in protected waters.
I have never heard of such a thing in the US. The rural cabins I'm familiar with would be inhospitable during the winter, but I'm not sure who would prevent you from staying on your own property? How is such a thing enforced?
Maybe it's more of a "you're on your own, stay at your own risk" sort of policy. Like, if you have a remote cabin in unincorporated territory in the northern US, you can't reasonably expect timely emergency services during winter.
The consequences are far more severe. In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).
If a property doesn't have planning permission for permanent residency then you can't register yourself on that address. If you are not registered, the government doesn't consider you a resident of the country, so you cannot access any government service (no benefits, no social security, no renewing a drivers license or ID etc). The other option is to register at an address you don't actually live at. But that means you're formally a member of that household. Which means they pay local taxes (based on household size) for you and it also may mean your income is considered part of their household income which is important for income based government benefits. Which is everything from health care subsidies to income-based daycare prices to rent subsidies to social security.
I'm in the rare position that it wouldn't matter to us if someone moved in, except for local taxes. We don't have kids, don't receive subsidies or benefits or social security or pension.
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The consequences are far more severe. In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).
OT but I didn't realize that this was a Europe-wide phenomenon or that it was Napoleon's idea. I just thought it was a weird Italian thing. Here in Italy, when you move house you have to inform the local government and they send a police officer to literally check that you live where you say you do. In my case, I found it very invasive as he came by when I was eating breakfast in my pajamas and proceeded to barge in and check my kitchen cupboards and clothes closet. He also spoke to one of my neighbors to ask if I really lived there. Do they do this also in the Netherlands?
It really bothers me having to tell the government my business (ie. where I live) but I guess it makes things more efficient for them if you don't have privacy concerns.
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Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?
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Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?
I have absolutely no idea!
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Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?
Norway here, but kind of the same system as the Netherlands and Italy (no police visit, though). The upside of the welfare system is that it takes a lot for people to be homeless. The municipality you are registered with are responsible for finding you housing and other types of help. The downside is that there are cracks to fall through, and when that happens we all get very confused. There have been a few cases in the media lately about people who have tried to survive outside the system, and have been registered as "emigrated or dead". After three years of no address, your rights to welfare help and medical assistance (outside emergency care) expire.
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The consequences are far more severe. In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).
OT but I didn't realize that this was a Europe-wide phenomenon or that it was Napoleon's idea. I just thought it was a weird Italian thing. Here in Italy, when you move house you have to inform the local government and they send a police officer to literally check that you live where you say you do. In my case, I found it very invasive as he came by when I was eating breakfast in my pajamas and proceeded to barge in and check my kitchen cupboards and clothes closet. He also spoke to one of my neighbors to ask if I really lived there. Do they do this also in the Netherlands?
It really bothers me having to tell the government my business (ie. where I live) but I guess it makes things more efficient for them if you don't have privacy concerns.
That sounds really strange. Too many police? lol
In Germany you have to register at your address but nobody comes to check.
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Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?
Or a full-time RV'er? I guess perhaps that's not too common in Europe, or they register with a family member's address? Here in the states there's a movement of selling one's home and traveling the US full-time. There are even mail-forwarding services catering specifically to this crowd because they have no permanent address.
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Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?
Or a full-time RV'er? I guess perhaps that's not too common in Europe, or they register with a family member's address? Here in the states there's a movement of selling one's home and traveling the US full-time. There are even mail-forwarding services catering specifically to this crowd because they have no permanent address.
In Norway: You get registered as UFB ("no permanent adress"), either in the municipality where you are living, or just generally. That makes everything difficult; from getting help from the welfare state, to getting a phone subscription. And if you keep that status for too long, the system might have a hickup and declare you dead.
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These days you can just notify your local government online in NL, checks are rare and only happen in case of suspected fraud - and even then it's a civil servant not a cop who comes to visit. We barely have the police capacity to even keep up with organized crime.
If you're homeless, that's a really tough situation. If you're lucky you can register with someone else but many people who are homeless only know other people who are poor/struggling and likely on income support so they can't register there. Shelters sometimes allow you to register there. In my country there's a separate register for homeless people and those people do get checks - they have to report where they are sleeping and civil servants visit them there. They can get some cash to buy food or pay for a place in the shelter (usually around €5/night) with that money.
If you are a fulltime traveller it's really difficult. I don't know the details as it isn't super common to actually live in a vehicle here, but there are books and websites about how to make that happen, so there are some ways around it. I know more than a few retirees who spend winters in warmer climates, but they generally keep their homes in NL so they are registed there. One of my neighbours is away all winter in their RV.
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In Belgium the police come and check. They came very early in the morning, as I was breastfeeding my dd in bed, and dh was hoovering our studio in his bathrobe :) This somehow also convinced the officer that we were in a proper relationship, which was the second reason she came to check on us:)
There is a lot of fraud, especially in Brussels, with people claiming being properly married for residence and work permit reasons.
In The Netherlands the police won't come, but the Social Benefits people may come round to count toothbrushes and underwear to see if everyone claiming to (not) live in a house is actually (not) living there. Benefits for two single people not living together are higher than that of two people living together (based on the idea that some costs like rent and heating only need to be paid once), so they might come and check if the single person is really living alone.
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Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?
Norway here, but kind of the same system as the Netherlands and Italy (no police visit, though). The upside of the welfare system is that it takes a lot for people to be homeless. The municipality you are registered with are responsible for finding you housing and other types of help. The downside is that there are cracks to fall through, and when that happens we all get very confused. There have been a few cases in the media lately about people who have tried to survive outside the system, and have been registered as "emigrated or dead". After three years of no address, your rights to welfare help and medical assistance (outside emergency care) expire.
This may apply to countries like Norway, but not much welfare help here in Italy and there are tons of homeless people. When I come home late at night from a social event the piazza near my house is a virtual dormitory. The welfare state (apart from medical care) is more extensive in my home state in the US than in Italy IMO. There is very little public housing here and unemployment benefits are extremely skimpy. There are also no food stamps. Basically, your family is meant to look after you if you can't work for whatever reason. If you don't have a family then you're (more or less) on your own.
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Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?
Norway here, but kind of the same system as the Netherlands and Italy (no police visit, though). The upside of the welfare system is that it takes a lot for people to be homeless. The municipality you are registered with are responsible for finding you housing and other types of help. The downside is that there are cracks to fall through, and when that happens we all get very confused. There have been a few cases in the media lately about people who have tried to survive outside the system, and have been registered as "emigrated or dead". After three years of no address, your rights to welfare help and medical assistance (outside emergency care) expire.
This may apply to countries like Norway, but not much welfare help here in Italy and there are tons of homeless people. When I come home late at night from a social event the piazza near my house is a virtual dormitory. The welfare state (apart from medical care) is more extensive in my home state in the US than in Italy IMO. There is very little public housing here and unemployment benefits are extremely skimpy. There are also no food stamps. Basically, your family is meant to look after you if you can't work for whatever reason. If you don't have a family then you're (more or less) on your own.
The boat refugees also have had a much larger impact on Italy than on Norway. I'm sorry we haven't stepped up more.
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In my country the welfare state is much more generous than in Italy but the housing shortage is so extreme that no one can find you a place to live if you don't have €€€. I am actually surprised we don't have way more homeless people on the streets. I think one reason for that is that our country is so small and culturally people are less likely to move away from their hometown, so many people who end up without a permanent place to live can rely on their social network for a roof over their head and there's a relatively big chance that location is within commuting distance from work. I'm a mustachian with savings, a degree and an income and if my partner and I would split up, I wouldn't be able to afford to rent a one bedroom apartment on my own. The housing shortage I think is one of the main reasons for hostility towards refugees.
We have something similar to welfare in the US sense which pays 100% of minimum wage for a family, 70% to a single parent and 50% to a single person. The rules are extremely strict and don't dare to step out of the tight little box we've defined for you or you face steep penalties and fines.
Social insurances (unemployment, disability) come with less strict rules and income based payments but you don't get paid out unless you've paid in and with the gig economy less people qualify to pay in.
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If you are a fulltime traveller it's really difficult. I don't know the details as it isn't super common to actually live in a vehicle here, but there are books and websites about how to make that happen, so there are some ways around it. I know more than a few retirees who spend winters in warmer climates, but they generally keep their homes in NL so they are registed there. One of my neighbours is away all winter in their RV.
To add to the 'this is how it works in Europe!'-page of this thread; I know a little about this.
Full time RV'ing is rare/non-existent in my country, but full time travel is not. If you plan to stay out of the country for over 8 months consecutively (some sources even say it's per calendar year, so if you do the last 7 months of 2019, then the first 7 of 2020 you should still be good but don't pin me down on this) you need to de-register yourself as a resident. This means you do not need to pay for national health insurance, do not pay any taxes (unless you have local income) but also do not build up any Social Security (which in contrast to the US is based on numbers of years you've lived here instead of how much you worked).
Most full time travelers I know just register somewhere else. If you have parents or grandparents that have no social benefits it's easy to register at their place and just compensate them for the extra taxes. I've done this twice when living abroad >8 months. As most full time travelers don't have any (registered) income it doesn't come with too many tax/benefits implications for the people already living there.
Another way to pull it off if you're a home-owner is to rent out your house while staying registered yourself (so pretending you're just renting out a room)
Usually the government doesn't check much, unless they get suspicious (e.g. living with your parents at age 40, no income or significant assets, yet no government benefits)
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To be fair, if you are a time traveler you probably don’t worry too much about government regulations. Apprentice time travelers might, but not full time travelers.
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To be fair, if you are a time traveler you probably don’t worry too much about government regulations. Apprentice time travelers might, but not full time travelers.
Just remember to come back before you leave!
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In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).
Strictly speaking this is also true in every US state that I am aware of if you have a state drivers license or ID card (which is almost everyone). This comes in handy when the police need to find someone (like if your parent dies). However, in the real world in the states these laws are rarely enforced unless you are dodging taxes. If you are dodging taxes there are people on staff to find you.
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The consequences are far more severe. In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).
OT but I didn't realize that this was a Europe-wide phenomenon or that it was Napoleon's idea. I just thought it was a weird Italian thing. Here in Italy, when you move house you have to inform the local government and they send a police officer to literally check that you live where you say you do. In my case, I found it very invasive as he came by when I was eating breakfast in my pajamas and proceeded to barge in and check my kitchen cupboards and clothes closet. He also spoke to one of my neighbors to ask if I really lived there. Do they do this also in the Netherlands?
It really bothers me having to tell the government my business (ie. where I live) but I guess it makes things more efficient for them if you don't have privacy concerns.
That sounds really strange. Too many police? lol
In Germany you have to register at your address but nobody comes to check.
But nowadays in order to be able to register,
you need to bring a form signed by the landlord who confirms that you live in his rental.
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The US has plenty of places that are prohibited from full time occupation, as well. This is especially true in rural vacation areas (my family has such a cabin), but another common prohibition is living on your boat in protected waters.
I have never heard of such a thing in the US. The rural cabins I'm familiar with would be inhospitable during the winter, but I'm not sure who would prevent you from staying on your own property? How is such a thing enforced?
Maybe it's more of a "you're on your own, stay at your own risk" sort of policy. Like, if you have a remote cabin in unincorporated territory in the northern US, you can't reasonably expect timely emergency services during winter.
Former Northern US resident with emergency services experience. Seasonal housing in our area received NO emergency services AT ALL during the winters. The roads in weren't plowed. I watched more than one building burn from a distance because we couldn't get the trucks to the scene. Even when the resident plowed their road themselves or the snow had melted, we couldn't always access the properties because the roads couldn't handle the weight of the vehicles.
Some of the more remote properties were "you're on your own, stay at your own risk" during the summers as well, but others, in more populated areas where residents might be tempted to stay out of season had road access blocked by the town (cement barriers) installed each fall to restrict off season access. Important lesson when it comes to purchasing property in the North East US. Before you commit, visit your local Fire Department/Ambulance/Town Clerk and ask about off season access. Just because a building is insulated and has a heat source doesn't guarantee you can live in some places year round.
And yes, I made more than one medical call on a snowmobile, but that's not a ride out you want to make as a patient.
That doesn't sound like the land of the free. The municipality will actively try to prevent you from accessing your own property?
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In Belgium the police come and check. They came very early in the morning, as I was breastfeeding my dd in bed, and dh was hoovering our studio in his bathrobe :) This somehow also convinced the officer that we were in a proper relationship, which was the second reason she came to check on us:)
There is a lot of fraud, especially in Brussels, with people claiming being properly married for residence and work permit reasons.
Yup, still waiting for the local policy officer to show up, two months after I moved. Guess I’ll give them a call in a good week after end of year madness.
The fraud is not only for residence and work permit reasons, but also because your social benefits such as unemployment depend on your familial situation (single, in couple, primary earner or not, with or without children etc).
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That doesn't sound like the land of the free. The municipality will actively try to prevent you from accessing your own property?
Technically, they are preventing you from accessing public roads that are in a "not supported" status, which is well within their rights. If you can get there without the roads they're not going to hunt you down.
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That doesn't sound like the land of the free. The municipality will actively try to prevent you from accessing your own property?
Technically, they are preventing you from accessing public roads that are in a "not supported" status, which is well within their rights. If you can get there without the roads they're not going to hunt you down.
Whether or not it’s in their rights, I agree it doesn’t sound like the land of the free. In the past, you were free to do all kinds of stupid stuff that would get you killed. You still are in many ways, but less so
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Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?
Norway here, but kind of the same system as the Netherlands and Italy (no police visit, though). The upside of the welfare system is that it takes a lot for people to be homeless. The municipality you are registered with are responsible for finding you housing and other types of help. The downside is that there are cracks to fall through, and when that happens we all get very confused. There have been a few cases in the media lately about people who have tried to survive outside the system, and have been registered as "emigrated or dead". After three years of no address, your rights to welfare help and medical assistance (outside emergency care) expire.
Amazed to read that access to welfare and medical can expire, esp in a socialist country. In Canada any suggestion that the state cut off welfare or medical access to citizens for any reason, but especially homelessness, would bring the wrath of Mordor down on the suggestor's head. Of course we suck badly at creating housing for anyone other than money-laundering foreign nationals, and I assume that Norway's rules are also a product of an extremely rigorous re-housing policy.
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Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?
Norway here, but kind of the same system as the Netherlands and Italy (no police visit, though). The upside of the welfare system is that it takes a lot for people to be homeless. The municipality you are registered with are responsible for finding you housing and other types of help. The downside is that there are cracks to fall through, and when that happens we all get very confused. There have been a few cases in the media lately about people who have tried to survive outside the system, and have been registered as "emigrated or dead". After three years of no address, your rights to welfare help and medical assistance (outside emergency care) expire.
Amazed to read that access to welfare and medical can expire, esp in a socialist country. In Canada any suggestion that the state cut off welfare or medical access to citizens for any reason, but especially homelessness, would bring the wrath of Mordor down on the suggestor's head. Of course we suck badly at creating housing for anyone other than money-laundering foreign nationals, and I assume that Norway's rules are also a product of an extremely rigorous re-housing policy.
In Canada, it’s the same. If you’ve emigrated, are declared dead, or are declared non-resident, the government won’t pay for your healthcare (after a year as an expat, I no longer had OHIP), I can’t contribute to an RRSP or TFSA, and I don’t qualify for CPP even though I am a Canadian citizen. Since I didn’t contribute to the system, I don’t get to reap the benefits. I think that’s fair that access to medical access and social security plans have been cut off to me, at least until I move back and reestablish residency.
Now, I do pay property taxes since we own a home in Toronto, so that gives me access to neighborhood services like the local library.
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Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?
Norway here, but kind of the same system as the Netherlands and Italy (no police visit, though). The upside of the welfare system is that it takes a lot for people to be homeless. The municipality you are registered with are responsible for finding you housing and other types of help. The downside is that there are cracks to fall through, and when that happens we all get very confused. There have been a few cases in the media lately about people who have tried to survive outside the system, and have been registered as "emigrated or dead". After three years of no address, your rights to welfare help and medical assistance (outside emergency care) expire.
Amazed to read that access to welfare and medical can expire, esp in a socialist country. In Canada any suggestion that the state cut off welfare or medical access to citizens for any reason, but especially homelessness, would bring the wrath of Mordor down on the suggestor's head. Of course we suck badly at creating housing for anyone other than money-laundering foreign nationals, and I assume that Norway's rules are also a product of an extremely rigorous re-housing policy.
It is a glitch, since the system can't comprehend homeless citizens. So the few cases have created some wrath. I think it is quite fair that people who willingly emigrate should lose access to the system after a while, but we have to find an option for those who don't fit into the forms. And we have to improve the situation for those 3909 who are homeless.
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In Canada any suggestion that the state cut off welfare or medical access to citizens for any reason, but especially homelessness, would bring the wrath of Mordor down on the suggestor's head.
I'm ready to be corrected by people with recent knowledge of the process, but I believe it's hard to get welfare in Canada if you're truly homeless because you need a bank account and to get a bank account you need an address. I think some service agencies let people use their address, but that sets off other flags in the system (too many applicants from a single address are assumed to include fraudulent claims).
I suspect in all these places it's the same underlying problem -- the political harm from "giving away taxpayer money" is so big that we end up with systems that filter out some people who really need help.
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The consequences are far more severe. In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).
OT but I didn't realize that this was a Europe-wide phenomenon or that it was Napoleon's idea. I just thought it was a weird Italian thing. Here in Italy, when you move house you have to inform the local government and they send a police officer to literally check that you live where you say you do. In my case, I found it very invasive as he came by when I was eating breakfast in my pajamas and proceeded to barge in and check my kitchen cupboards and clothes closet. He also spoke to one of my neighbors to ask if I really lived there. Do they do this also in the Netherlands?
It really bothers me having to tell the government my business (ie. where I live) but I guess it makes things more efficient for them if you don't have privacy concerns.
That sounds really strange. Too many police? lol
In Germany you have to register at your address but nobody comes to check.
I assume they let the GEZ crew fill in any potential gaps.
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The consequences are far more severe. In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).
OT but I didn't realize that this was a Europe-wide phenomenon or that it was Napoleon's idea. I just thought it was a weird Italian thing. Here in Italy, when you move house you have to inform the local government and they send a police officer to literally check that you live where you say you do. In my case, I found it very invasive as he came by when I was eating breakfast in my pajamas and proceeded to barge in and check my kitchen cupboards and clothes closet. He also spoke to one of my neighbors to ask if I really lived there. Do they do this also in the Netherlands?
It really bothers me having to tell the government my business (ie. where I live) but I guess it makes things more efficient for them if you don't have privacy concerns.
That sounds really strange. Too many police? lol
In Germany you have to register at your address but nobody comes to check.
I assume they let the GEZ crew fill in any potential gaps.
Everyone talks about how China limits an individual’s freedom/privacy, etc., but it sounds like it’s worse in Italy (a free European country) than in China. We have to register (online), but no one comes to check.
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The consequences are far more severe. In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).
OT but I didn't realize that this was a Europe-wide phenomenon or that it was Napoleon's idea. I just thought it was a weird Italian thing. Here in Italy, when you move house you have to inform the local government and they send a police officer to literally check that you live where you say you do. In my case, I found it very invasive as he came by when I was eating breakfast in my pajamas and proceeded to barge in and check my kitchen cupboards and clothes closet. He also spoke to one of my neighbors to ask if I really lived there. Do they do this also in the Netherlands?
It really bothers me having to tell the government my business (ie. where I live) but I guess it makes things more efficient for them if you don't have privacy concerns.
That sounds really strange. Too many police? lol
In Germany you have to register at your address but nobody comes to check.
I assume they let the GEZ crew fill in any potential gaps.
Everyone talks about how China limits an individual’s freedom/privacy, etc., but it sounds like it’s worse in Italy (a free European country) than in China. We have to register (online), but no one comes to check.
In some parts of China you have to register, but it's superfluous, since they have every single step you do outside the house or on your computer recorded anyway and you have to show your ID daily to police.
Don't want to be an Uighur, right?
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Back to work after a 2 week break over the holidays. Paydate was Friday. And something went wrong. They fixed it, and people got paid Saturday/Monday depending on their banks. Seems that my immediate coworkers in general were ok, but the comments on the intranet announcement were interesting. It didn't help that corporate communications wasn't exactly on top of it. One person specifically mentioned their diabetes and antidepressant medications.
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Back to work after a 2 week break over the holidays. Paydate was Friday. And something went wrong. They fixed it, and people got paid Saturday/Monday depending on their banks. Seems that my immediate coworkers in general were ok, but the comments on the intranet announcement were interesting. It didn't help that corporate communications wasn't exactly on top of it. One person specifically mentioned their diabetes and antidepressant medications.
I don't think this is necessarily anti-mustachian. I manage my accounts to a pretty strict budget, there is rarely a lot of play room in my checking account. With my automatic withdrawals (student loans and mortgage) I would be pretty upset if work fucked up my paydate. It could easily cause an overdraft, literally through no fault of my own. I expect my employer to pay me on time, and that is about the most reasonable expectation there is - especially in today's world where it is all done by direct deposit.
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Back to work after a 2 week break over the holidays. Paydate was Friday. And something went wrong. They fixed it, and people got paid Saturday/Monday depending on their banks. Seems that my immediate coworkers in general were ok, but the comments on the intranet announcement were interesting. It didn't help that corporate communications wasn't exactly on top of it. One person specifically mentioned their diabetes and antidepressant medications.
I don't think this is necessarily anti-mustachian. I manage my accounts to a pretty strict budget, there is rarely a lot of play room in my checking account. With my automatic withdrawals (student loans and mortgage) I would be pretty upset if work fucked up my paydate. It could easily cause an overdraft, literally through no fault of my own. I expect my employer to pay me on time, and that is about the most reasonable expectation there is - especially in today's world where it is all done by direct deposit.
Seconded.
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Back to work after a 2 week break over the holidays. Paydate was Friday. And something went wrong. They fixed it, and people got paid Saturday/Monday depending on their banks. Seems that my immediate coworkers in general were ok, but the comments on the intranet announcement were interesting. It didn't help that corporate communications wasn't exactly on top of it. One person specifically mentioned their diabetes and antidepressant medications.
I don't think this is necessarily anti-mustachian. I manage my accounts to a pretty strict budget, there is rarely a lot of play room in my checking account. With my automatic withdrawals (student loans and mortgage) I would be pretty upset if work fucked up my paydate. It could easily cause an overdraft, literally through no fault of my own. I expect my employer to pay me on time, and that is about the most reasonable expectation there is - especially in today's world where it is all done by direct deposit.
Seconded.
Oh agreed. Anyone could be messed up by a late paydate. But there were plenty of comments about living paycheck to paycheck, etc.
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The consequences are far more severe. In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).
OT but I didn't realize that this was a Europe-wide phenomenon or that it was Napoleon's idea. I just thought it was a weird Italian thing. Here in Italy, when you move house you have to inform the local government and they send a police officer to literally check that you live where you say you do. In my case, I found it very invasive as he came by when I was eating breakfast in my pajamas and proceeded to barge in and check my kitchen cupboards and clothes closet. He also spoke to one of my neighbors to ask if I really lived there. Do they do this also in the Netherlands?
It really bothers me having to tell the government my business (ie. where I live) but I guess it makes things more efficient for them if you don't have privacy concerns.
That sounds really strange. Too many police? lol
In Germany you have to register at your address but nobody comes to check.
I assume they let the GEZ crew fill in any potential gaps.
Everyone talks about how China limits an individual’s freedom/privacy, etc., but it sounds like it’s worse in Italy (a free European country) than in China. We have to register (online), but no one comes to check.
In some parts of China you have to register, but it's superfluous, since they have every single step you do outside the house or on your computer recorded anyway and you have to show your ID daily to police.
Don't want to be an Uighur, right?
This is why I am unsettled at the idea of China moving to "digital" currency - one more way to track and control.
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My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.
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My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.
Like I've said for years, you can't cure stupid, but you sure as hell can profit off it.
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My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.
There is a certain TX gas station with a cult following. I actually have a branded T-shirt from there (thrifted!) and a coozie. Its so much more than just a gas station :)
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I was taking a car to the airport after a meeting and I got to talking with the driver. Turns out he drove a 2002 Buick for 10 years until it was stolen. He had bought it from his aunt for $1000.
Then he goes on to say: "I've been leasing ever since. I like having a new car every couple of years without having to pay for it."
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My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.
Like I've said for years, you can't cure stupid, but you sure as hell can profit off it.
My MPP: I am too moral to do that.
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My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.
There is a certain TX gas station with a cult following. I actually have a branded T-shirt from there (thrifted!) and a coozie. Its so much more than just a gas station :)
I've seen people spend hundreds of dollars at Buc-ee's. You can get a charcoal grill, deer corn, a yeti cooler AND lunch. It's like the euphoria of finding a Buc-ee's causes people to spend extra amounts.
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My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.
There is a certain TX gas station with a cult following. I actually have a branded T-shirt from there (thrifted!) and a coozie. Its so much more than just a gas station :)
What, are we not allowed to say Buc-ee's out loud?
People really do love that place. I'm from Texas and had never heard of it until a few years ago. We were planning a road trip back to visit family, and one of my wife's coworkers insisted that we go to one. It was quite the experience. However, I'd still rather get some Allsup's fried burritos than anything Buc-ee's had to offer.
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I was taking a car to the airport after a meeting and I got to talking with the driver. Turns out he drove a 2002 Buick for 10 years until it was stolen. He had bought it from his aunt for $1000.
Then he goes on to say: "I've been leasing ever since. I like having a new car every couple of years without having to pay for it."
Um
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What, are we not allowed to say Buc-ee's out loud?
The place that must-not-be-named.
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I was taking a car to the airport after a meeting and I got to talking with the driver. Turns out he drove a 2002 Buick for 10 years until it was stolen. He had bought it from his aunt for $1000.
Then he goes on to say: "I've been leasing ever since. I like having a new car every couple of years without having to pay for it."
Um
Maybe he expenses the lease so it's doesn't seem like his own money?
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I was taking a car to the airport after a meeting and I got to talking with the driver. Turns out he drove a 2002 Buick for 10 years until it was stolen. He had bought it from his aunt for $1000.
Then he goes on to say: "I've been leasing ever since. I like having a new car every couple of years without having to pay for it."
Um
Maybe he expenses the lease so it's doesn't seem like his own money?
That car was stolen.
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I was taking a car to the airport after a meeting and I got to talking with the driver. Turns out he drove a 2002 Buick for 10 years until it was stolen. He had bought it from his aunt for $1000.
Then he goes on to say: "I've been leasing ever since. I like having a new car every couple of years without having to pay for it."
Um
Maybe he expenses the lease so it's doesn't seem like his own money?
That car was stolen.
He lives in the Detroit area so maybe that's why it was stolen?
As for expensing it.. Don't know. Before he got this job driving business customers back in April, he said he was driving for Uber for 3 months. He currently has a Chevy Cruz and he says that every day he would fill $20 worth of gas and then worked Uber 8 to 10 hours, 7 days a week. He said he'd make $150/day but it was not steady and no health benefits. He says that that would allow him to pay rent and his bills but just barely.
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My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.
Like I've said for years, you can't cure stupid, but you sure as hell can profit off it.
My MPP: I am too moral to do that.
MPP? Much easier to give them what they want than try to save someone who doesn't want to be saved.
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I was taking a car to the airport after a meeting and I got to talking with the driver. Turns out he drove a 2002 Buick for 10 years until it was stolen. He had bought it from his aunt for $1000.
Then he goes on to say: "I've been leasing ever since. I like having a new car every couple of years without having to pay for it."
Um
Maybe he expenses the lease so it's doesn't seem like his own money?
That car was stolen.
He lives in the Detroit area so maybe that's why it was stolen?
As for expensing it.. Don't know. Before he got this job driving business customers back in April, he said he was driving for Uber for 3 months. He currently has a Chevy Cruz and he says that every day he would fill $20 worth of gas and then worked Uber 8 to 10 hours, 7 days a week. He said he'd make $150/day but it was not steady and no health benefits. He says that that would allow him to pay rent and his bills but just barely.
No, we don't all drive stolen cars here.
He's probably like my parents and in-laws who have convinced themselves that it's better to have a car subscription (essentially) and not worry about upkeep costs, without ever stopping to consider whether they would come out ahead if they bought a car and held onto it for a decade.
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My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.
Like I've said for years, you can't cure stupid, but you sure as hell can profit off it.
My MPP: I am too moral to do that.
Aren't we all profiting off stupidity though? If you own an S&P500 fund you surely are. Tobacco companies, car companies (and their financing divisions), banks (and their CC divisions), junk food manufacturers, overpriced electric gizmo makers...
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My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.
Like I've said for years, you can't cure stupid, but you sure as hell can profit off it.
My MPP: I am too moral to do that.
Aren't we all profiting off stupidity though? If you own an S&P500 fund you surely are. Tobacco companies, car companies (and their financing divisions), banks (and their CC divisions), junk food manufacturers, overpriced electric gizmo makers...
Yep. I celebrate every huge-truck, dollar-a-block-in-fuel-costs hillbilly I see.
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My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.
Like I've said for years, you can't cure stupid, but you sure as hell can profit off it.
My MPP: I am too moral to do that.
Aren't we all profiting off stupidity though? If you own an S&P500 fund you surely are. Tobacco companies, car companies (and their financing divisions), banks (and their CC divisions), junk food manufacturers, overpriced electric gizmo makers...
I only own sustainable funds now. I really don't want to make money off tobacco or other controversial goods. Many funds are sustainable these days.
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My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.
Like I've said for years, you can't cure stupid, but you sure as hell can profit off it.
My MPP: I am too moral to do that.
Aren't we all profiting off stupidity though? If you own an S&P500 fund you surely are. Tobacco companies, car companies (and their financing divisions), banks (and their CC divisions), junk food manufacturers, overpriced electric gizmo makers...
I only own sustainable funds now. I really don't want to make money off tobacco or other controversial goods. Many funds are sustainable these days.
Sustainability of a company doesn’t really address whether profits are made from the stupidity of others. A quick scan of ESG funds shows holdings like Pepsi, Visa, Disney. It’s pretty much impossible to invest in an index fund and not take advantage of stupid people. IMO it’s gotta be good enough not to specifically target people
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Sustainability of a company doesn’t really address whether profits are made from the stupidity of others. A quick scan of ESG funds shows holdings like Pepsi, Visa, Disney. It’s pretty much impossible to invest in an index fund and not take advantage of stupid people. IMO it’s gotta be good enough not to specifically target people
It is pretty much impossible to have any fond that is not using unethical companies (make money from powerless people or damaging them) or those that make money from stupid people.
That is lao in part because of how big and diverse today's megacorps are. Company X is very responsible. But they also hold 14% of a weapon factory?
Or do you have Nestlè in there? The company that steals the water from under villages in 3rd world countries (or sometimes in 1st world too) to sell them bottled water when their wells no longer work?
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No, we don't all drive stolen cars here.
I was not implying that at all.
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Sorry to add to the off-topic foam, but I just visited a Buc-ee's for the first time *yesterday*. I was absolutely floored. They had WEDDING merchandise, y'all. Plus the aformentioned deer corn, etc. You could decorate your living room, host a barbecue, plan a wedding, buy all your Christmas presents, plus fill up with gas. It was surreal.
One of us did spend $30 on branded merchandise, but it was the 12yo spending his allowance money :) I used the ultra-clean and spacious restrooms. There was hand sanitizer IN the stalls!
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Sustainability of a company doesn’t really address whether profits are made from the stupidity of others. A quick scan of ESG funds shows holdings like Pepsi, Visa, Disney. It’s pretty much impossible to invest in an index fund and not take advantage of stupid people. IMO it’s gotta be good enough not to specifically target people
It is pretty much impossible to have any fond that is not using unethical companies (make money from powerless people or damaging them) or those that make money from stupid people.
That is lao in part because of how big and diverse today's megacorps are. Company X is very responsible. But they also hold 14% of a weapon factory?
Or do you have Nestlè in there? The company that steals the water from under villages in 3rd world countries (or sometimes in 1st world too) to sell them bottled water when their wells no longer work?
Totally do in the first world. It's a big deal here in MI.
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My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.
There is a certain TX gas station with a cult following. I actually have a branded T-shirt from there (thrifted!) and a coozie. Its so much more than just a gas station :)
My first thought when I read this was that it had to be Bucc-ee's
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This isn't the typical anti-mustachian overheard at work conversation.
I was talking with a co-worker who started on the same day I did ~2 years ago as a fresh college graduate. Between his rent, student loan payments, car loan (6 year loan signed 1 year ago), and car insurance ($160/month), he has zero wiggle room in his spending. "Zero wiggle room" are his words, not mine. I remember a conversation a few months ago when he mentioned that he had been using food delivery daily.
We hopefully talked him into at least shopping his car insurance around, but he's 24 with a wreck on his record, so there may not be as much savings there as I'm hoping.
I offered to sit down with him and go over his whole budget to see if I can find some low-hanging fruit. I kind of hope that he doesn't take me up on the offer, as things I consider unnecessary luxuries might be deal breakers for him. But hopefully he'll take a few steps in the right direction after the conversation.
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PTF
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This isn't the typical anti-mustachian overheard at work conversation.
I was talking with a co-worker who started on the same day I did ~2 years ago as a fresh college graduate. Between his rent, student loan payments, car loan (6 year loan signed 1 year ago), and car insurance ($160/month), he has zero wiggle room in his spending. "Zero wiggle room" are his words, not mine. I remember a conversation a few months ago when he mentioned that he had been using food delivery daily.
We hopefully talked him into at least shopping his car insurance around, but he's 24 with a wreck on his record, so there may not be as much savings there as I'm hoping.
I offered to sit down with him and go over his whole budget to see if I can find some low-hanging fruit. I kind of hope that he doesn't take me up on the offer, as things I consider unnecessary luxuries might be deal breakers for him. But hopefully he'll take a few steps in the right direction after the conversation.
I did that once for a friend. He couldn't figure out how he was so behind, and from his income and written budget, neither could I. Then he gave me a spreadsheet of his spending.
Me: "Um, you spent several thousand dollars on vacations over the summer, several hundred on kids' enrichment (for older teens who already earned their own spending money), another several thousand on furniture for your house, and none of it was in the written budget."
Him: "...oh."
We never discussed it again. Hopefully it made a difference.
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Sustainability of a company doesn’t really address whether profits are made from the stupidity of others. A quick scan of ESG funds shows holdings like Pepsi, Visa, Disney. It’s pretty much impossible to invest in an index fund and not take advantage of stupid people. IMO it’s gotta be good enough not to specifically target people
It is pretty much impossible to have any fond that is not using unethical companies (make money from powerless people or damaging them) or those that make money from stupid people.
That is lao in part because of how big and diverse today's megacorps are. Company X is very responsible. But they also hold 14% of a weapon factory?
Or do you have Nestlè in there? The company that steals the water from under villages in 3rd world countries (or sometimes in 1st world too) to sell them bottled water when their wells no longer work?
Totally do in the first world. It's a big deal here in MI.
Obviously there's no such thing as 100% sustainable in a capitalist world. But the funds I've invested in have set their own clear criteria of what they will and will not invest in. That means they have excluded, for example, any companies that have to do with tobacco, and certain types of weapons like landmines and bioweapons. They also exclude some companies that are extremely polluting. My impression is that their research is thorough. All in all they exclude roughly 10%. That's not enough but it's a good start. For example, they exclude 15% of the companies in the MSCI World index which represents 10% of the value.
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This isn't the typical anti-mustachian overheard at work conversation.
I was talking with a co-worker who started on the same day I did ~2 years ago as a fresh college graduate. Between his rent, student loan payments, car loan (6 year loan signed 1 year ago), and car insurance ($160/month), he has zero wiggle room in his spending. "Zero wiggle room" are his words, not mine. I remember a conversation a few months ago when he mentioned that he had been using food delivery daily.
We hopefully talked him into at least shopping his car insurance around, but he's 24 with a wreck on his record, so there may not be as much savings there as I'm hoping.
I offered to sit down with him and go over his whole budget to see if I can find some low-hanging fruit. I kind of hope that he doesn't take me up on the offer, as things I consider unnecessary luxuries might be deal breakers for him. But hopefully he'll take a few steps in the right direction after the conversation.
I did that once for a friend. He couldn't figure out how he was so behind, and from his income and written budget, neither could I. Then he gave me a spreadsheet of his spending.
Me: "Um, you spent several thousand dollars on vacations over the summer, several hundred on kids' enrichment (for older teens who already earned their own spending money), another several thousand on furniture for your house, and none of it was in the written budget."
Him: "...oh."
We never discussed it again. Hopefully it made a difference.
God. This is not complicated math. It makes me so sad that people struggle so much with something so clear and evident.
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Sorry to add to the off-topic foam, but I just visited a Buc-ee's for the first time *yesterday*. I was absolutely floored. They had WEDDING merchandise, y'all. Plus the aformentioned deer corn, etc. You could decorate your living room, host a barbecue, plan a wedding, buy all your Christmas presents, plus fill up with gas. It was surreal.
One of us did spend $30 on branded merchandise, but it was the 12yo spending his allowance money :) I used the ultra-clean and spacious restrooms. There was hand sanitizer IN the stalls!
I spent Giftmas in a 4-star hotel in San Antonio (on points-- no facepunch). There was a magazine rack and a telephone in the bathroom, next to the toilet.
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Sorry to add to the off-topic foam, but I just visited a Buc-ee's for the first time *yesterday*. I was absolutely floored. They had WEDDING merchandise, y'all. Plus the aformentioned deer corn, etc. You could decorate your living room, host a barbecue, plan a wedding, buy all your Christmas presents, plus fill up with gas. It was surreal.
One of us did spend $30 on branded merchandise, but it was the 12yo spending his allowance money :) I used the ultra-clean and spacious restrooms. There was hand sanitizer IN the stalls!
I spent Giftmas in a 4-star hotel in San Antonio (on points-- no facepunch). There was a magazine rack and a telephone in the bathroom, next to the toilet.
Now I’ve stayed in my fair share of facepunch-worthy hotels, but don’t forget that points are fungible. If you use them all up on fancy rooms, you don’t have any left over to offset other real-life spending. Thus, points aren’t a free pass to overspend (although sometimes you can get really good deals using points)
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Sorry to add to the off-topic foam, but I just visited a Buc-ee's for the first time *yesterday*. I was absolutely floored. They had WEDDING merchandise, y'all. Plus the aformentioned deer corn, etc. You could decorate your living room, host a barbecue, plan a wedding, buy all your Christmas presents, plus fill up with gas. It was surreal.
One of us did spend $30 on branded merchandise, but it was the 12yo spending his allowance money :) I used the ultra-clean and spacious restrooms. There was hand sanitizer IN the stalls!
I spent Giftmas in a 4-star hotel in San Antonio (on points-- no facepunch). There was a magazine rack and a telephone in the bathroom, next to the toilet.
Kind of the opposite of hand sanitizer in the stalls...
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No, we don't all drive stolen cars here.
I was not implying that at all.
Neither was I, apologies.
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Sorry to add to the off-topic foam, but I just visited a Buc-ee's for the first time *yesterday*. I was absolutely floored. They had WEDDING merchandise, y'all. Plus the aformentioned deer corn, etc. You could decorate your living room, host a barbecue, plan a wedding, buy all your Christmas presents, plus fill up with gas. It was surreal.
One of us did spend $30 on branded merchandise, but it was the 12yo spending his allowance money :) I used the ultra-clean and spacious restrooms. There was hand sanitizer IN the stalls!
I spent Giftmas in a 4-star hotel in San Antonio (on points-- no facepunch). There was a magazine rack and a telephone in the bathroom, next to the toilet.
Kind of the opposite of hand sanitizer in the stalls...
Yeah, you don't want to touch that. As much as I employ scatological humor I draw the line at handling someone else's E. coli.
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A colleague asked for some advice on his ergonomic situation at his desk. I shared a few things I learned, including how I saw that when he worked over his laptop he had hunched shoulders that wasn't the best for his back or arms. I pointed out how my setup has monitors at the right height for me to sit up straight and how the keyboard is at a good height for neutral arms, blah blah blah.
Anyway, he decided that he needed an external monitor also so he could have better posture at his desk. But instead of the massive monitors we can get for free from the company, he decided to order himself a $1200 Apple display to use at work. And today he let us know that while he was shopping he decided to go ahead and replace his daughter's computer, so she is getting a $2k surprise showing up today.
I told him that I would be happy to help him with the obvious problem he had of too much money, and we all had a good laugh.
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I have a coworker who patted himself on the back for cooking at home the other night. Their default is to order from some hip restaurant through Grubhub. Apparently they do this 4-5 times a week. The other nights, they eat out. This individual also eats at restaurants daily for lunch.
Now I no nothing about what his wife's lunch habits are, or what they do on the weekend for breakfast or lunch. But my back of the envelope numbers show they're spending $19,000 a year eating out even without the other unknowns added in. That's unbelievable.
Now he is a high earner with a salary well over 100,000, and his wife earns a decent salary too. Still they're spending 10% of their gross on eating out. He's a muscular 6'3" and plays sports regularly. Otherwise, the calories would have caught up with him.
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My dept director told me today he pulled his entire 401k into cash/bonds in October, and moved all of his other investments into cash yesterday...
Well, ackshuly... I agree with this move. Stock market is a freaking tinder box right now. Its about to burn down like Australia. Bad joke, but you get the visual.
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I work for a very large sub-prime auto lender, and some of the stories I hear and see about our customers are outrageous. Lots of people threaten to shoot the repo agent, dontchaknow. I'll save them for another day. But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.
In a "town hall" type meeting with our CTO (a meeting of almost all 6-figure tech type earners) a guy publicly asked how much he could borrow under the plan, in effect advertising to the entire I.T. department) that he is broke and couldn't afford even a single week of income loss. SMH.
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My dept director told me today he pulled his entire 401k into cash/bonds in October, and moved all of his other investments into cash yesterday...
He got lucky in timing the top, let's see if he can call the bottom.
Yep, havent you heard?... the Top Is In! ;)
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I work for a very large sub-prime auto lender, and some of the stories I hear and see about our customers are outrageous. Lots of people threaten to shoot the repo agent, dontchaknow. I'll save them for another day. But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.
In a "town hall" type meeting with our CTO (a meeting of almost all 6-figure tech type earners) a guy publicly asked how much he could borrow under the plan, in effect advertising to the entire I.T. department) that he is broke and couldn't afford even a single week of income loss. SMH.
is it an interest free loan for 4 months? I want to believe that the guy just wanted to use someone else's money for 4 months if it's interest free....maybe a little payback for the company using employee money for an extra week, which is what they're doing. Holding payroll for an extra week for the entire employee base....having the employees give the company an interest free loan for a week. (but I'm cynical)
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My dept director told me today he pulled his entire 401k into cash/bonds in October, and moved all of his other investments into cash yesterday...
Well, ackshuly... I agree with this move. Stock market is a freaking tinder box right now. Its about to burn down like Australia. Bad joke, but you get the visual.
Plenty would have said the same 12 months ago and missed out on what ~25% gains since then? Even the experts can't predict what will happen next.
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My dept director told me today he pulled his entire 401k into cash/bonds in October, and moved all of his other investments into cash yesterday...
Well, ackshuly... I agree with this move. Stock market is a freaking tinder box right now. Its about to burn down like Australia. Bad joke, but you get the visual.
Plenty would have said the same 12 months ago and missed out on what ~25% gains since then? Even the experts can't predict what will happen next.
It is worth reminding one's self that the most successful groups of investors are the ones who lost their password, or who died.
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I have a coworker who patted himself on the back for cooking at home the other night. Their default is to order from some hip restaurant through Grubhub. Apparently they do this 4-5 times a week. The other nights, they eat out. This individual also eats at restaurants daily for lunch.
Now I no nothing about what his wife's lunch habits are, or what they do on the weekend for breakfast or lunch. But my back of the envelope numbers show they're spending $19,000 a year eating out even without the other unknowns added in. That's unbelievable.
Now he is a high earner with a salary well over 100,000, and his wife earns a decent salary too. Still they're spending 10% of their gross on eating out. He's a muscular 6'3" and plays sports regularly. Otherwise, the calories would have caught up with him.
My friends (a couple) who do this have one great excuse - they earn a lot of money and don't have kids.
FWIW, he travels a lot and is a bit fastidious and does cook a bit for himself (soup?) when alone. She grew up with parents that owned a restaurant and no one cooked at home.. she helped serve there but never learned how to cook growing up or even saw someone doing it at home. Neither are big eaters - one meal a day plus leftovers.
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I work for a very large sub-prime auto lender, and some of the stories I hear and see about our customers are outrageous. Lots of people threaten to shoot the repo agent, dontchaknow. I'll save them for another day. But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.
In a "town hall" type meeting with our CTO (a meeting of almost all 6-figure tech type earners) a guy publicly asked how much he could borrow under the plan, in effect advertising to the entire I.T. department) that he is broke and couldn't afford even a single week of income loss. SMH.
is it an interest free loan for 4 months? I want to believe that the guy just wanted to use someone else's money for 4 months if it's interest free....maybe a little payback for the company using employee money for an extra week, which is what they're doing. Holding payroll for an extra week for the entire employee base....having the employees give the company an interest free loan for a week. (but I'm cynical)
I did this when my company went from semimonthly to biweekly pay periods. It was an interest-free loan you could get the first paycheck of January, and then they'd take payments out of your paycheck for the rest of the year.
I wasn't hurting for money at all, even though I hadn't yet found mustachianism, but an interest-free loan is an interest-free loan. I used it as an extra student loan payment.
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I work for a very large sub-prime auto lender, and some of the stories I hear and see about our customers are outrageous. Lots of people threaten to shoot the repo agent, dontchaknow. I'll save them for another day. But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.
In a "town hall" type meeting with our CTO (a meeting of almost all 6-figure tech type earners) a guy publicly asked how much he could borrow under the plan, in effect advertising to the entire I.T. department) that he is broke and couldn't afford even a single week of income loss. SMH.
is it an interest free loan for 4 months? I want to believe that the guy just wanted to use someone else's money for 4 months if it's interest free....maybe a little payback for the company using employee money for an extra week, which is what they're doing. Holding payroll for an extra week for the entire employee base....having the employees give the company an interest free loan for a week. (but I'm cynical)
I did this when my company went from semimonthly to biweekly pay periods. It was an interest-free loan you could get the first paycheck of January, and then they'd take payments out of your paycheck for the rest of the year.
I wasn't hurting for money at all, even though I hadn't yet found mustachianism, but an interest-free loan is an interest-free loan. I used it as an extra student loan payment.
Congrats - way to game the system....
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My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.
There is a certain TX gas station with a cult following. I actually have a branded T-shirt from there (thrifted!) and a coozie. Its so much more than just a gas station :)
What, are we not allowed to say Buc-ee's out loud?
People really do love that place. I'm from Texas and had never heard of it until a few years ago. We were planning a road trip back to visit family, and one of my wife's coworkers insisted that we go to one. It was quite the experience. However, I'd still rather get some Allsup's fried burritos than anything Buc-ee's had to offer.
I don't think there's too much territory overlap between them - Allsup's tends to be more West and small town, Buc-ee's tends to be right on the interstate (a few mini-Buc-ee's conversions excepted)
That said, I guess I need to try the fried burritos next time at Allsup's. When traveling for work and getting food paid for by my employer, of course.
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Sustainability of a company doesn’t really address whether profits are made from the stupidity of others. A quick scan of ESG funds shows holdings like Pepsi, Visa, Disney. It’s pretty much impossible to invest in an index fund and not take advantage of stupid people. IMO it’s gotta be good enough not to specifically target people
It is pretty much impossible to have any fond that is not using unethical companies (make money from powerless people or damaging them) or those that make money from stupid people.
That is lao in part because of how big and diverse today's megacorps are. Company X is very responsible. But they also hold 14% of a weapon factory?
Or do you have Nestlè in there? The company that steals the water from under villages in 3rd world countries (or sometimes in 1st world too) to sell them bottled water when their wells no longer work?
Totally do in the first world. It's a big deal here in MI.
Obviously there's no such thing as 100% sustainable in a capitalist world. But the funds I've invested in have set their own clear criteria of what they will and will not invest in. That means they have excluded, for example, any companies that have to do with tobacco, and certain types of weapons like landmines and bioweapons. They also exclude some companies that are extremely polluting. My impression is that their research is thorough. All in all they exclude roughly 10%. That's not enough but it's a good start. For example, they exclude 15% of the companies in the MSCI World index which represents 10% of the value.
I enjoy a nice evening at a hookah bar smoking and sipping beer. I don’t see what’s immoral about tobacco companies profiting off of that. Or why alcohol seems to get a free pass when it causes crazy health problems as well.
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Not Overheard at Work because I am FIRED, but I do play in local rock bands. Local music pays so little that it would be difficult to live off of it, but some do manage. One band member was telling me the story of a guitarist who was playing music for a living but unfortunately had his double-wide burn down one night while he was playing in a club. He was homeless with just a guitar to his name. Several local musicians "banded" together and put on a concert to raise money to get the musician back on his feet. Apparently they raised about $1K, not bad. Unfortunately he didn't get the point and used the money to buy a second guitar.
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Not Overheard at Work because I am FIRED, but I do play in local rock bands. Local music pays so little that it would be difficult to live off of it, but some do manage. One band member was telling me the story of a guitarist who was playing music for a living but unfortunately had his double-wide burn down one night while he was playing in a club. He was homeless with just a guitar to his name. Several local musicians "banded" together and put on a concert to raise money to get the musician back on his feet. Apparently they raised about $1K, not bad. Unfortunately he didn't get the point and used the money to buy a second guitar.
Second guitar will definitely be useful when he's living under the local bridge.
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Not Overheard at Work because I am FIRED, but I do play in local rock bands. Local music pays so little that it would be difficult to live off of it, but some do manage. One band member was telling me the story of a guitarist who was playing music for a living but unfortunately had his double-wide burn down one night while he was playing in a club. He was homeless with just a guitar to his name. Several local musicians "banded" together and put on a concert to raise money to get the musician back on his feet. Apparently they raised about $1K, not bad. Unfortunately he didn't get the point and used the money to buy a second guitar.
Second guitar will definitely be useful when he's living under the local bridge.
One wrist injury away from oh f***.
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.. a coworker is going to Las Vegas to celebrate her daughter's 21st birthday... but also doesnt have enough money in checking account to buy "diet food"... meaning their desired healthy groceries. Have to resort to buying a few staples until next payday. But can afford Las Vegas trip so a 21 year old can get legally hammered??
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I work for a very large sub-prime auto lender, and some of the stories I hear and see about our customers are outrageous. Lots of people threaten to shoot the repo agent, dontchaknow. I'll save them for another day. But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.
In a "town hall" type meeting with our CTO (a meeting of almost all 6-figure tech type earners) a guy publicly asked how much he could borrow under the plan, in effect advertising to the entire I.T. department) that he is broke and couldn't afford even a single week of income loss. SMH.
is it an interest free loan for 4 months? I want to believe that the guy just wanted to use someone else's money for 4 months if it's interest free....maybe a little payback for the company using employee money for an extra week, which is what they're doing. Holding payroll for an extra week for the entire employee base....having the employees give the company an interest free loan for a week. (but I'm cynical)
My wife works for General Electric, and they pulled this stunt in March 2017. You're welcome to look at their share price then and compare it to today's. This is the kind of thing a company does when it's starved for cash.
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Coworker owns 2 houses (one of which is worth >$300k) and four vehicles. Mentioned that he owns five televisions, and got the fifth one for "free"--actually $150 when I asked him to clarify, compared to a normal price of $800.
Complains that he's broke. Oi. I get that cash flow problems are a thing, but oi.
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I work for a very large sub-prime auto lender, and some of the stories I hear and see about our customers are outrageous. Lots of people threaten to shoot the repo agent, dontchaknow. I'll save them for another day. But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.
In a "town hall" type meeting with our CTO (a meeting of almost all 6-figure tech type earners) a guy publicly asked how much he could borrow under the plan, in effect advertising to the entire I.T. department) that he is broke and couldn't afford even a single week of income loss. SMH.
is it an interest free loan for 4 months? I want to believe that the guy just wanted to use someone else's money for 4 months if it's interest free....maybe a little payback for the company using employee money for an extra week, which is what they're doing. Holding payroll for an extra week for the entire employee base....having the employees give the company an interest free loan for a week. (but I'm cynical)
My wife works for General Electric, and they pulled this stunt in March 2017. You're welcome to look at their share price then and compare it to today's. This is the kind of thing a company does when it's starved for cash.
As I recall 2017 is when Warren Buffett finished exiting his big GE position of 2009. Coincidence?
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We just had a company-wide conference call for people signed up for HSA accounts because we're switching providers. The company has over 100 employees and only 5 people were invited to the conference call! That means only ~5% of my company is utilizing HSA accounts.
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But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.
Heh, this brought back memories. Where I worked they did that payroll change in the mid-1970s. We got a letter explaining the financial mumbo-jumbo and it said upon separation, you get that held-back week of pay. Somewhere around 2009 a co-worker retired. He had held onto that letter. The HR/payroll people had changed many times over, so he showed them the letter to make sure his held-back week was paid out in his last check. Apparently, by that time it had been so long since anyone left who had been there in 1976 the HR/payroll people were flummoxed. They didn't think the guy had forged the letter but nobody in authority had ever seen one or heard of it.
HR hinted that they weren't going to pay it without coming right out and saying so, suggesting that the obligation belonged to the former parent company, not the current owners. He said they could explain it to the news reporter who would be showing up to ask about it, the HR guy said to hold on as they were still researching, and they did pay it in his last check - a week's pay at his current rate.
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But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.
Heh, this brought back memories. Where I worked they did that payroll change in the mid-1970s. We got a letter explaining the financial mumbo-jumbo and it said upon separation, you get that held-back week of pay. Somewhere around 2009 a co-worker retired. He had held onto that letter. The HR/payroll people had changed many times over, so he showed them the letter to make sure his held-back week was paid out in his last check. Apparently, by that time it had been so long since anyone left who had been there in 1976 the HR/payroll people were flummoxed. They didn't think the guy had forged the letter but nobody in authority had ever seen one or heard of it.
HR hinted that they weren't going to pay it without coming right out and saying so, suggesting that the obligation belonged to the former parent company, not the current owners. He said they could explain it to the news reporter who would be showing up to ask about it, the HR guy said to hold on as they were still researching, and they did pay it in his last check - a week's pay at his current rate.
Strange because they are either Doing payroll in arrears or not. Seems like they switched to arrears and then at some point switched BACK to current pay without making up the difference?
I’ve always gotten paid in arrears and each pay stub clearly states the work days that the paycheck is supposed to cover
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Sustainability of a company doesn’t really address whether profits are made from the stupidity of others. A quick scan of ESG funds shows holdings like Pepsi, Visa, Disney. It’s pretty much impossible to invest in an index fund and not take advantage of stupid people. IMO it’s gotta be good enough not to specifically target people
It is pretty much impossible to have any fond that is not using unethical companies (make money from powerless people or damaging them) or those that make money from stupid people.
That is lao in part because of how big and diverse today's megacorps are. Company X is very responsible. But they also hold 14% of a weapon factory?
Or do you have Nestlè in there? The company that steals the water from under villages in 3rd world countries (or sometimes in 1st world too) to sell them bottled water when their wells no longer work?
Totally do in the first world. It's a big deal here in MI.
Obviously there's no such thing as 100% sustainable in a capitalist world. But the funds I've invested in have set their own clear criteria of what they will and will not invest in. That means they have excluded, for example, any companies that have to do with tobacco, and certain types of weapons like landmines and bioweapons. They also exclude some companies that are extremely polluting. My impression is that their research is thorough. All in all they exclude roughly 10%. That's not enough but it's a good start. For example, they exclude 15% of the companies in the MSCI World index which represents 10% of the value.
I enjoy a nice evening at a hookah bar smoking and sipping beer. I don’t see what’s immoral about tobacco companies profiting off of that. Or why alcohol seems to get a free pass when it causes crazy health problems as well.
I would prefer not to invest in alcohol either if I had the choice, but I haven't found a sober fund yet.
Alcohol (and fastfood companies, etc etc) are different than tobacco companies though. While consuming alcohol is not healthy, most users are not addicted to it. Only a minority of the users suffer from addiction. It's an unfortunate side effect. Tobacco on the other hand is addictive by design. Almost all users are hooked after using it for a few times (I don't know the exact numbers but I've seen figures suggesting teenagers often get addicted after trying a cigarette less than 5-10 times) The tobacco industry is actually doing research to find out how to increase the addictiveness of their products. In my book that's pretty evil.
Also, from a danger-to-others perspective, while of course a person with an alcohol addiction is a huge burden to their environment, tobacco users literally pollute other people's air with toxic fumes. I believe that everyone has the theoretical right to inhale toxic fumes (although freedom of choice is difficult with addiction) but you also poison other people. This is a sensitive topic for me, because I suffer from an auto immune disease, have suffered from it since I was a teenager. When I asked my doctor how I could possibly suddenly get this disease, she replied 'are your parents smokers?' Exposure to second hand smoke is one of the biggest risk factors for my illness, after from first hand smoke (I'm a never smoker) .
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But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.
Heh, this brought back memories. Where I worked they did that payroll change in the mid-1970s. We got a letter explaining the financial mumbo-jumbo and it said upon separation, you get that held-back week of pay. Somewhere around 2009 a co-worker retired. He had held onto that letter. The HR/payroll people had changed many times over, so he showed them the letter to make sure his held-back week was paid out in his last check. Apparently, by that time it had been so long since anyone left who had been there in 1976 the HR/payroll people were flummoxed. They didn't think the guy had forged the letter but nobody in authority had ever seen one or heard of it.
HR hinted that they weren't going to pay it without coming right out and saying so, suggesting that the obligation belonged to the former parent company, not the current owners. He said they could explain it to the news reporter who would be showing up to ask about it, the HR guy said to hold on as they were still researching, and they did pay it in his last check - a week's pay at his current rate.
This guy is my hero.
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We just had a company-wide conference call for people signed up for HSA accounts because we're switching providers. The company has over 100 employees and only 5 people were invited to the conference call! That means only ~5% of my company is utilizing HSA accounts.
To be fair you cannot contribute to an HSA unless you have a High Deductible plan, and depending on the plans your company offers that may legitimately not be the best choice for a lot of people. 5% does sound low though. :(
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To be fair you cannot contribute to an HSA unless you have a High Deductible plan, and depending on the plans your company offers that may legitimately not be the best choice for a lot of people. 5% does sound low though. :(
Yes, exactly. At my company, the premiums for a HDHP with a $1,400 deductible and 20% coinsurance on all costs after the deductible is only 15% less than a regular plan with a $700 deductible and 0-10% coinsurance (depending on the specific service). Actual premiums vary by family size and salary, but for employee-only coverage for someone earning a median salary for my company, the tipping point is around $1,000 of medical costs per year. Which is one chronic condition or injury per year.
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I work for a very large sub-prime auto lender, and some of the stories I hear and see about our customers are outrageous. Lots of people threaten to shoot the repo agent, dontchaknow. I'll save them for another day. But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.
In a "town hall" type meeting with our CTO (a meeting of almost all 6-figure tech type earners) a guy publicly asked how much he could borrow under the plan, in effect advertising to the entire I.T. department) that he is broke and couldn't afford even a single week of income loss. SMH.
is it an interest free loan for 4 months? I want to believe that the guy just wanted to use someone else's money for 4 months if it's interest free....maybe a little payback for the company using employee money for an extra week, which is what they're doing. Holding payroll for an extra week for the entire employee base....having the employees give the company an interest free loan for a week. (but I'm cynical)
My wife works for General Electric, and they pulled this stunt in March 2017. You're welcome to look at their share price then and compare it to today's. This is the kind of thing a company does when it's starved for cash.
As I recall 2017 is when Warren Buffett finished exiting his big GE position of 2009. Coincidence?
My wife's 401K statement came in the mail yesterday, and the GE stock portion actually had a nice return for 2019q4 (about 5% for the quarter, which works out to something like 22% annualized). That portion represents about 5% of our net worth, which is still far too high, but there are frictions that keep us from decreasing it rapidly.
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To be fair you cannot contribute to an HSA unless you have a High Deductible plan, and depending on the plans your company offers that may legitimately not be the best choice for a lot of people. 5% does sound low though. :(
Yes, exactly. At my company, the premiums for a HDHP with a $1,400 deductible and 20% coinsurance on all costs after the deductible is only 15% less than a regular plan with a $700 deductible and 0-10% coinsurance (depending on the specific service). Actual premiums vary by family size and salary, but for employee-only coverage for someone earning a median salary for my company, the tipping point is around $1,000 of medical costs per year. Which is one chronic condition or injury per year.
It has been my experience that many people think an HSA is use it or lose it, like an FSA, and most people cannot do the math to see that the HDHP is a better option.
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To be fair you cannot contribute to an HSA unless you have a High Deductible plan, and depending on the plans your company offers that may legitimately not be the best choice for a lot of people. 5% does sound low though. :(
Yes, exactly. At my company, the premiums for a HDHP with a $1,400 deductible and 20% coinsurance on all costs after the deductible is only 15% less than a regular plan with a $700 deductible and 0-10% coinsurance (depending on the specific service). Actual premiums vary by family size and salary, but for employee-only coverage for someone earning a median salary for my company, the tipping point is around $1,000 of medical costs per year. Which is one chronic condition or injury per year.
It has been my experience that many people think an HSA is use it or lose it, like an FSA, and most people cannot do the math to see that the HDHP is a better option.
Depends on how high that deductible is. For someone early in the process, the personal HSA max contribution is $3500, and some HDHP plans have a personal deductible of $6000. That person would likely do the math and choose a non-HDHP plan if they anticipate anything beyond routine care in the next year.
But yes, many people are unaware of the fairly recent change in HSA policy. It used to be "use it or lose it."
Edit: apparently what we had before husband started working for current employer was a medical FSA. A lot of workplaces used to offer these, and that's the source of the confusion.
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To be fair you cannot contribute to an HSA unless you have a High Deductible plan, and depending on the plans your company offers that may legitimately not be the best choice for a lot of people. 5% does sound low though. :(
Yes, exactly. At my company, the premiums for a HDHP with a $1,400 deductible and 20% coinsurance on all costs after the deductible is only 15% less than a regular plan with a $700 deductible and 0-10% coinsurance (depending on the specific service). Actual premiums vary by family size and salary, but for employee-only coverage for someone earning a median salary for my company, the tipping point is around $1,000 of medical costs per year. Which is one chronic condition or injury per year.
It has been my experience that many people think an HSA is use it or lose it, like an FSA, and most people cannot do the math to see that the HDHP is a better option.
Aside from that, often times for a young person even if you have done the math, you don't quite realize the implications of it. If I could go back in time I'd have told my 26 year old self (first time I was off mom and dads insurance) that an HSA is the same thing as your IRA, you need to contribute as much as you can to it. But I was gung-ho on my IRA and 401k. That was only 4 years ago, but despite reading everything here and other places, I couldn't quite grasp why it made sense for a single, extremely healthy young person. Now having seen a $1M hospital bill (patient liability far less), I get it.
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Depends on how high that deductible is. For someone early in the process, the personal HSA max contribution is $3500, and some HDHP plans have a personal deductible of $6000. That person would likely do the math and choose a non-HDHP plan if they anticipate anything beyond routine care in the next year.
But yes, many people are unaware of the fairly recent change in HSA policy. It used to be "use it or lose it."
Edit: apparently what we had before husband started working for current employer was a medical FSA. A lot of workplaces used to offer these, and that's the source of the confusion.
Even with the $6000 deductible, it depends on the premiums and benefits of your alternatives. That's my point.
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But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.
Heh, this brought back memories. Where I worked they did that payroll change in the mid-1970s. We got a letter explaining the financial mumbo-jumbo and it said upon separation, you get that held-back week of pay. Somewhere around 2009 a co-worker retired. He had held onto that letter. The HR/payroll people had changed many times over, so he showed them the letter to make sure his held-back week was paid out in his last check. Apparently, by that time it had been so long since anyone left who had been there in 1976 the HR/payroll people were flummoxed. They didn't think the guy had forged the letter but nobody in authority had ever seen one or heard of it.
HR hinted that they weren't going to pay it without coming right out and saying so, suggesting that the obligation belonged to the former parent company, not the current owners. He said they could explain it to the news reporter who would be showing up to ask about it, the HR guy said to hold on as they were still researching, and they did pay it in his last check - a week's pay at his current rate.
This guy is my hero.
Nah. Only if he had gotten the 6% above Federal Lending Rate (or whatever the rule is in the US) interest on that overdue payment.
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Received an email earlier this week that made me want to reach through the internet and facepunch corporate IT. Content of the email is paraphrased below:
"It has been identified that you have a program on the 'restricted list' on your computer. This program is on the restricted risk because it presents either a legal or cybersecurity risk to the company, and will be removed from your computer on (insert date here.
The restricted program you are using is (free software that came with measurement equipment I purchased). We have identified an alternative program for the same purpose (alternative program name, made by the same company). If you would like this software installed instead, please file a case with the IT Department
If you have any questions, please email us at (email address)"
Now keep in mind the following:
-This program was originally installed on my computer by corporate IT, a couple years ago
-The two programs in question were created by the same company. It's a reputable company
-The version I'm using is the version they offer free of charge to anyone that purchases their hardware. It's essentially a stripped-down version of the pricey version. You can download it for free from their website.
-The version IT wants to force me to switch to costs $495 and has a bunch of features I don't care about.
Currently resisting the urge to respond to the "please direct any questions to address" with a message letting them know how useless and wasteful they are. Fortunately, I've managed to restrain that urge(so far).
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Currently resisting the urge to respond to the "please direct any questions to address" with a message letting them know how useless and wasteful they are. Fortunately, I've managed to restrain that urge(so far).
Yeah, that's probably good urge to restrain. just kidding, do it and tell us what happens.
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Received an email earlier this week that made me want to reach through the internet and facepunch corporate IT. Content of the email is paraphrased below:
"It has been identified that you have a program on the 'restricted list' on your computer. This program is on the restricted risk because it presents either a legal or cybersecurity risk to the company, and will be removed from your computer on (insert date here.
The restricted program you are using is (free software that came with measurement equipment I purchased). We have identified an alternative program for the same purpose (alternative program name, made by the same company). If you would like this software installed instead, please file a case with the IT Department
If you have any questions, please email us at (email address)"
Now keep in mind the following:
-This program was originally installed on my computer by corporate IT, a couple years ago
-The two programs in question were created by the same company. It's a reputable company
-The version I'm using is the version they offer free of charge to anyone that purchases their hardware. It's essentially a stripped-down version of the pricey version. You can download it for free from their website.
-The version IT wants to force me to switch to costs $495 and has a bunch of features I don't care about.
Currently resisting the urge to respond to the "please direct any questions to address" with a message letting them know how useless and wasteful they are. Fortunately, I've managed to restrain that urge(so far).
It's possible that the free version of the software actually DOES have security flaws that the pay-for version does not. You should check that out before jumping on their case.
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I enjoy a nice evening at a hookah bar smoking and sipping beer. I don’t see what’s immoral about tobacco companies profiting off of that. Or why alcohol seems to get a free pass when it causes crazy health problems as well.
I would prefer not to invest in alcohol either if I had the choice, but I haven't found a sober fund yet.
Alcohol (and fastfood companies, etc etc) are different than tobacco companies though. While consuming alcohol is not healthy, most users are not addicted to it. Only a minority of the users suffer from addiction. It's an unfortunate side effect. Tobacco on the other hand is addictive by design. Almost all users are hooked after using it for a few times (I don't know the exact numbers but I've seen figures suggesting teenagers often get addicted after trying a cigarette less than 5-10 times) The tobacco industry is actually doing research to find out how to increase the addictiveness of their products. In my book that's pretty evil.
Also, from a danger-to-others perspective, while of course a person with an alcohol addiction is a huge burden to their environment, tobacco users literally pollute other people's air with toxic fumes. I believe that everyone has the theoretical right to inhale toxic fumes (although freedom of choice is difficult with addiction) but you also poison other people. This is a sensitive topic for me, because I suffer from an auto immune disease, have suffered from it since I was a teenager. When I asked my doctor how I could possibly suddenly get this disease, she replied 'are your parents smokers?' Exposure to second hand smoke is one of the biggest risk factors for my illness, after from first hand smoke (I'm a never smoker) .
If we’re using danger to others because of users’ irresponsible use as a criteria, I would rate alcohol (driving while drunk), phones (driving while texting), and cars (driving while driving) as more dangerous than smoking.
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Or why alcohol seems to get a free pass when it causes crazy health problems as well.
Every society has one or two drugs that are condoned. We just picked a really dumb one.
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If I could go back in time I'd have told my 26 year old self (first time I was off mom and dads insurance) that an HSA is the same thing as your IRA, you need to contribute as much as you can to it. But I was gung-ho on my IRA and 401k.
But it isn't. You can use the rule of 55 to take money out of a 401K at 55, you can use a 72T to take money out of your IRA anytime, you can transfer money between IRAs and 401Ks, but a HSA requires that you actually be 65 to use that money for anything other than medical expenses.
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If I could go back in time I'd have told my 26 year old self (first time I was off mom and dads insurance) that an HSA is the same thing as your IRA, you need to contribute as much as you can to it. But I was gung-ho on my IRA and 401k.
But it isn't. You can use the rule of 55 to take money out of a 401K at 55, you can use a 72T to take money out of your IRA anytime, but a HSA requires that you actually be 65 to use that money for anything other than medical expenses.
No, I realize that. But that is the language I would have understood, and it would have been a better use of my savings for me and my family than straight IRA and 401k. Obviously this is equivalent to me telling younger self to choose a Toyota instead of a Honda. Or maybe a Corvette instead of a Ferrari? Or Ferrari instead of Corvette? W/e, my point is that for me I didn't make a bad choice but could have made a better choice - although that is with the benefit of hindsight.
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If I could go back in time I'd have told my 26 year old self (first time I was off mom and dads insurance) that an HSA is the same thing as your IRA, you need to contribute as much as you can to it. But I was gung-ho on my IRA and 401k.
But it isn't. You can use the rule of 55 to take money out of a 401K at 55, you can use a 72T to take money out of your IRA anytime, you can transfer money between IRAs and 401Ks, but a HSA requires that you actually be 65 to use that money for anything other than medical expenses.
While you have to be 65 to withdraw for anything other than medical expenses my understanding is that you pay your medical expenses now using non-HSA dollars and then later when you are FIRED you use those receipts to withdraw dollars from the HSA. Here is the article where I first heard about the concept: https://www.madfientist.com/ultimate-retirement-account/ (https://www.madfientist.com/ultimate-retirement-account/)
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Currently resisting the urge to respond to the "please direct any questions to address" with a message letting them know how useless and wasteful they are. Fortunately, I've managed to restrain that urge(so far).
Yeah, that's probably good urge to restrain. just kidding, do it and tell us what happens.
http://bofharchive.com/BOFH.html
Not really overheard and certainly not overseen:
My collegue got a "little" packet today. 2 buckets (3 gallons) and diverse stuff, including nano seal shampoo, to clean his car.
My car gets washed every time it rains. Guess I miss out on some real fun here.
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A 70 year old man and his 64 year old SO take their aging van to a dealer to get repairs. While waiting, their eyes catch on a new Dodge Journey SUV for about 20k sticker.
They both get Social Security - that's their only source of income. He gets 1000, she gets 750.
They are upside down on the vehicle being repaired. They get $1,500 trade allowance but loan payoff of $5,800, so they roll the $3,,300 into new loan. And get sold a $3,600 service contract. Payments are $700 per month. So of their $1750 income, 700 will go to the new vehicle. And of course rent of 520 so that leaves them about $530 for everything else.
Did I mention his financial statements shown to the dealer show 2 bank accounts. First has $24 positive balance and the other is overdrawn by about $150. So they have less than zero money.
Their loan is for 26.5k at over 20% APR. This works for 1 month.
Then she dies. Now he is stuck with the loan and now only $1,000 income and $1,200 between vehicle and the rent.
Can there be a worse story?
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Antimustachian wall of shame and tragedy...
How do you know such specific details?
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That sounds downright criminal
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Antimustachian wall of shame and tragedy...
How do you know such specific details?
I may be posting many such stories, but its better for all involved that I not divulge how I know the details. :) But they are very true and some may or may not result in litigation.
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I enjoy a nice evening at a hookah bar smoking and sipping beer. I don’t see what’s immoral about tobacco companies profiting off of that. Or why alcohol seems to get a free pass when it causes crazy health problems as well.
I would prefer not to invest in alcohol either if I had the choice, but I haven't found a sober fund yet.
Alcohol (and fastfood companies, etc etc) are different than tobacco companies though. While consuming alcohol is not healthy, most users are not addicted to it. Only a minority of the users suffer from addiction. It's an unfortunate side effect. Tobacco on the other hand is addictive by design. Almost all users are hooked after using it for a few times (I don't know the exact numbers but I've seen figures suggesting teenagers often get addicted after trying a cigarette less than 5-10 times) The tobacco industry is actually doing research to find out how to increase the addictiveness of their products. In my book that's pretty evil.
Also, from a danger-to-others perspective, while of course a person with an alcohol addiction is a huge burden to their environment, tobacco users literally pollute other people's air with toxic fumes. I believe that everyone has the theoretical right to inhale toxic fumes (although freedom of choice is difficult with addiction) but you also poison other people. This is a sensitive topic for me, because I suffer from an auto immune disease, have suffered from it since I was a teenager. When I asked my doctor how I could possibly suddenly get this disease, she replied 'are your parents smokers?' Exposure to second hand smoke is one of the biggest risk factors for my illness, after from first hand smoke (I'm a never smoker) .
If we’re using danger to others because of users’ irresponsible use as a criteria, I would rate alcohol (driving while drunk), phones (driving while texting), and cars (driving while driving) as more dangerous than smoking.
Of course I don't think those examples are not dangerous, but the existance of other dangerous things doesn't mean that exposure to second hand smoke is not dangerous. Getting hit by a drunk driver may result in death or a serious injury, but as I said, because of exposure to smoke in childhood I will suffer from a serious illness for the rest of my life. The cause and effect relationship is the same, the result is the same, except the relationship between exposure to smoke and illness is less immediately visible. I'm not sure if drunk driving accidents are more common either - about a quarter of the population still smokes and doing it in front of children or during pregnancy isn't exactly unheard of.
All my siblings had lung issues as a child. A smoking acquintance had a baby who was born early, likely because she moked heavily throughout pregnancy. The kid is healthy enough now but many premature children develop problems later on in life. It is common, unfortunately just like drunk driving and texting and driving. I have ended a friendship over drunk driving, I really hate that too.
I still do think that there's a moral difference between a product that is only designed to do harm, and products that have a use (like cars) but are misused and cause harm because of misuse.
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A 70 year old man and his 64 year old SO take their aging van to a dealer to get repairs. While waiting, their eyes catch on a new Dodge Journey SUV for about 20k sticker.
They both get Social Security - that's their only source of income. He gets 1000, she gets 750.
They are upside down on the vehicle being repaired. They get $1,500 trade allowance but loan payoff of $5,800, so they roll the $3,,300 into new loan. And get sold a $3,600 service contract. Payments are $700 per month. So of their $1750 income, 700 will go to the new vehicle. And of course rent of 520 so that leaves them about $530 for everything else.
Did I mention his financial statements shown to the dealer show 2 bank accounts. First has $24 positive balance and the other is overdrawn by about $150. So they have less than zero money.
Their loan is for 26.5k at over 20% APR. This works for 1 month.
Then she dies. Now he is stuck with the loan and now only $1,000 income and $1,200 between vehicle and the rent.
Can there be a worse story?
It would be a Dodge Journey. Those are rather infamous for being what you end up with when you need to roll negative equity into something.
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a product that is only designed to do harm
That’s extreme. It’s not like we’re talking about politicians here.
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a product that is only designed to do harm
That’s extreme. It’s not like we’re talking about politicians here.
That's right. The correct description is "a product that is made to make money and is deliverately optimised to cause harm because that makes more money".
In contrast politicians - even the dictatorial sort - seldom do harm because they like it. Generally it is just what comes with becoming and keeping to be a leader. Like Republicans deliberately cause harm to poor and especially poor black people, because those tend to vote democratic.
Or, if you want to put it the other way round, Democrats who intentionally harm super rich people's money sacks so that they can keep the poor voting them by delivering presents like health care.
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A 70 year old man and his 64 year old SO take their aging van to a dealer to get repairs. While waiting, their eyes catch on a new Dodge Journey SUV for about 20k sticker.
They both get Social Security - that's their only source of income. He gets 1000, she gets 750.
They are upside down on the vehicle being repaired. They get $1,500 trade allowance but loan payoff of $5,800, so they roll the $3,,300 into new loan. And get sold a $3,600 service contract. Payments are $700 per month. So of their $1750 income, 700 will go to the new vehicle. And of course rent of 520 so that leaves them about $530 for everything else.
Did I mention his financial statements shown to the dealer show 2 bank accounts. First has $24 positive balance and the other is overdrawn by about $150. So they have less than zero money.
Their loan is for 26.5k at over 20% APR. This works for 1 month.
Then she dies. Now he is stuck with the loan and now only $1,000 income and $1,200 between vehicle and the rent.
Can there be a worse story?
It ought to be illegal for a business to gouge an individual like that. Seriously! Not everyone has the same level of intellect and impulse control to understand how bad their choices are. SO many stories of people buying cars and houses and toys they can't even come close to affording.
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My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.
There is a certain TX gas station with a cult following. I actually have a branded T-shirt from there (thrifted!) and a coozie. Its so much more than just a gas station :)
My first thought when I read this was that it had to be Bucc-ee's
I thought it was The Busy Bee, I had never heard of Buc-ee's.
I found a video about the Busy Bee, it seems so far it's a Florida/Georgia thing.
The bathrooms really are great and always clean.
The bill boards are fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_7v4U3RxUE&feature=youtu.be
All those goodies are there, but when we stop at a Busy Bee, we may buy gas, but not usually, my wife already has the cheap gas places figured out, and as far as goodies, she already packed those for the trip,
so no paying high prices on highway food.
Did I mention they have nice bathrooms, that's why we stop. :-)
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To be fair you cannot contribute to an HSA unless you have a High Deductible plan, and depending on the plans your company offers that may legitimately not be the best choice for a lot of people. 5% does sound low though. :(
Yes, exactly. At my company, the premiums for a HDHP with a $1,400 deductible and 20% coinsurance on all costs after the deductible is only 15% less than a regular plan with a $700 deductible and 0-10% coinsurance (depending on the specific service). Actual premiums vary by family size and salary, but for employee-only coverage for someone earning a median salary for my company, the tipping point is around $1,000 of medical costs per year. Which is one chronic condition or injury per year.
Not sure I understand the details. Are you paying $4,666 or more for the $700 deductible plan?
If so, a 15% reduction in the premium would cover the $700 difference in the deductible. I don't understand how the co-insurance plays in, it may be the stopper.
How about the tax reduction if you are allowed to use the HSA. Does that make it worth while?
I only ask because going to a high deductible for me reduced my premium a huge amount, and now after
about 8 years, I have $52k of tax advantaged money in my HSA. I've been very happy with my HDHP/HSA policy.
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A 70 year old man and his 64 year old SO take their aging van to a dealer to get repairs. While waiting, their eyes catch on a new Dodge Journey SUV for about 20k sticker.
They both get Social Security - that's their only source of income. He gets 1000, she gets 750.
They are upside down on the vehicle being repaired. They get $1,500 trade allowance but loan payoff of $5,800, so they roll the $3,,300 into new loan. And get sold a $3,600 service contract. Payments are $700 per month. So of their $1750 income, 700 will go to the new vehicle. And of course rent of 520 so that leaves them about $530 for everything else.
Did I mention his financial statements shown to the dealer show 2 bank accounts. First has $24 positive balance and the other is overdrawn by about $150. So they have less than zero money.
Their loan is for 26.5k at over 20% APR. This works for 1 month.
Then she dies. Now he is stuck with the loan and now only $1,000 income and $1,200 between vehicle and the rent.
Can there be a worse story?
It ought to be illegal for a business to gouge an individual like that. Seriously! Not everyone has the same level of intellect and impulse control to understand how bad their choices are. SO many stories of people buying cars and houses and toys they can't even come close to affording.
We have rules around misleading and deceptive conduct here, as well as consumer credit laws (a credit provider has to undertake due diligence that a customer can service a loan).
However, numerous innovations are seeking to get around these laws, such as buy now, pay later apps and schemes - where you make a series of instalments, and are technically not charged interest.
The problem with trying to put in place unfair contract laws is the expectation that someone signing a contract has already sought proper legal advice. Perhaps there should be a requirement for the lender to ask "have you received legal or financial advice?" If the borrower waives that clause, then don't punish the lender.
Interesting though, the only reason I can think a lender would lend someone money in this situation is that the sales staff gets an upfront commission from it, and head office doesn't clue onto it until much later down the line, or just has bad internal management reporting.
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I don't hear these often, but the other day, I overheard a coworker telling someone that he took a 401K loan to buy a new washing machine "because those things aren't cheap these days." I know he makes a little over $100K. A washing machine is what, like $600? I hope I misheard, but I don't think I did.
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I don't hear these often, but the other day, I overheard a coworker telling someone that he took a 401K loan to buy a new washing machine "because those things aren't cheap these days." I know he makes a little over $100K. A washing machine is what, like $600? I hope I misheard, but I don't think I did.
When I looked around last summer, I could find a new one for ~$450 for the basest of base models. Even the super duper high-end, stackable front loaders were only like $1300. I ended up just fixing my 30 year-old Kenmore.
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I don't hear these often, but the other day, I overheard a coworker telling someone that he took a 401K loan to buy a new washing machine "because those things aren't cheap these days." I know he makes a little over $100K. A washing machine is what, like $600? I hope I misheard, but I don't think I did.
When I looked around last summer, I could find a new one for ~$450 for the basest of base models. Even the super duper high-end, stackable front loaders were only like $1300. I ended up just fixing my 30 year-old Kenmore.
I purchased a pair in mid 2009, Frigidaires. They were the "base model" high-efficiency front loaders, $1000+tax for the pair, "free" delivery. The base drawer+riser was $150 each. We didn't need it. Around 2016, I saw them on clearance at Lowes for $25 each.
Washer/Dryer have been fine. Washer had a draining issue once, opened it (super easy), took out the offending baby socks, some coins, pins, collar tabs, etc. Been good ever since. Washes and dries well, I don't know what other features I'd need that the newer "Smart" models have.
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I purchased a pair in mid 2009, Frigidaires. They were the "base model" high-efficiency front loaders, $1000+tax for the pair, "free" delivery. The base drawer+riser was $150 each. We didn't need it. Around 2016, I saw them on clearance at Lowes for $25 each.
Washer/Dryer have been fine. Washer had a draining issue once, opened it (super easy), took out the offending baby socks, some coins, pins, collar tabs, etc. Been good ever since. Washes and dries well, I don't know what other features I'd need that the newer "Smart" models have.
But, but, but, the newer models play a song when they're done!
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I purchased a pair in mid 2009, Frigidaires. They were the "base model" high-efficiency front loaders, $1000+tax for the pair, "free" delivery. The base drawer+riser was $150 each. We didn't need it. Around 2016, I saw them on clearance at Lowes for $25 each.
Washer/Dryer have been fine. Washer had a draining issue once, opened it (super easy), took out the offending baby socks, some coins, pins, collar tabs, etc. Been good ever since. Washes and dries well, I don't know what other features I'd need that the newer "Smart" models have.
But, but, but, the newer models play a song when they're done!
That's nice and all, but there are just some things that don't necessarily need to be "smart" (like the smart kitchen faucet...just why?). My laundry room is semi-detached, so sending an alert to my phone when it's done would be kind of nifty, but I've gone 10 years now just remembering to check on it after 30 or 40 minutes and I've lived.
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I purchased a pair in mid 2009, Frigidaires. They were the "base model" high-efficiency front loaders, $1000+tax for the pair, "free" delivery. The base drawer+riser was $150 each. We didn't need it. Around 2016, I saw them on clearance at Lowes for $25 each.
Washer/Dryer have been fine. Washer had a draining issue once, opened it (super easy), took out the offending baby socks, some coins, pins, collar tabs, etc. Been good ever since. Washes and dries well, I don't know what other features I'd need that the newer "Smart" models have.
But, but, but, the newer models play a song when they're done!
We just bought a new house. The dryer it came with runs on natural gas instead of electricity, which is nice. But the thing that surprised me was a plastic rack that fits into the dryer and provides a non-spinning platform in the dryer. You use it to put your things on it like shoes that you need to dry but don't want them thumping around inside. I was gob-smacked.
I feel so upper class.
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I purchased a pair in mid 2009, Frigidaires. They were the "base model" high-efficiency front loaders, $1000+tax for the pair, "free" delivery. The base drawer+riser was $150 each. We didn't need it. Around 2016, I saw them on clearance at Lowes for $25 each.
Washer/Dryer have been fine. Washer had a draining issue once, opened it (super easy), took out the offending baby socks, some coins, pins, collar tabs, etc. Been good ever since. Washes and dries well, I don't know what other features I'd need that the newer "Smart" models have.
But, but, but, the newer models play a song when they're done!
We just bought a new house. The dryer it came with runs on natural gas instead of electricity, which is nice. But the thing that surprised me was a plastic rack that fits into the dryer and provides a non-spinning platform in the dryer. You use it to put your things on it like shoes that you need to dry but don't want them thumping around inside. I was gob-smacked.
I feel so upper class.
Man, just wear them wet until they dry out. Shouldn't take more than a couple of days...
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I purchased a pair in mid 2009, Frigidaires. They were the "base model" high-efficiency front loaders, $1000+tax for the pair, "free" delivery. The base drawer+riser was $150 each. We didn't need it. Around 2016, I saw them on clearance at Lowes for $25 each.
Washer/Dryer have been fine. Washer had a draining issue once, opened it (super easy), took out the offending baby socks, some coins, pins, collar tabs, etc. Been good ever since. Washes and dries well, I don't know what other features I'd need that the newer "Smart" models have.
But, but, but, the newer models play a song when they're done!
We just bought a new house. The dryer it came with runs on natural gas instead of electricity, which is nice. But the thing that surprised me was a plastic rack that fits into the dryer and provides a non-spinning platform in the dryer. You use it to put your things on it like shoes that you need to dry but don't want them thumping around inside. I was gob-smacked.
I feel so upper class.
Man, just wear them wet until they dry out. Shouldn't take more than a couple of days...
Yep, plus they'll have that nice mildewy smell.
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I purchased a pair in mid 2009, Frigidaires. They were the "base model" high-efficiency front loaders, $1000+tax for the pair, "free" delivery. The base drawer+riser was $150 each. We didn't need it. Around 2016, I saw them on clearance at Lowes for $25 each.
Washer/Dryer have been fine. Washer had a draining issue once, opened it (super easy), took out the offending baby socks, some coins, pins, collar tabs, etc. Been good ever since. Washes and dries well, I don't know what other features I'd need that the newer "Smart" models have.
But, but, but, the newer models play a song when they're done!
We just bought a new house. The dryer it came with runs on natural gas instead of electricity, which is nice. But the thing that surprised me was a plastic rack that fits into the dryer and provides a non-spinning platform in the dryer. You use it to put your things on it like shoes that you need to dry but don't want them thumping around inside. I was gob-smacked.
I feel so upper class.
Man, just wear them wet until they dry out. Shouldn't take more than a couple of days...
I didn't buy the house because of the features on the dryer! Hell, I didn't even know about them until some days after we closed on it.
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We just bought a new house. The dryer it came with runs on natural gas instead of electricity, which is nice. But the thing that surprised me was a plastic rack that fits into the dryer and provides a non-spinning platform in the dryer. You use it to put your things on it like shoes that you need to dry but don't want them thumping around inside. I was gob-smacked.
I feel so upper class.
That does sound fancy. Makes setting them out in front of the warm draft from my refrigerator coils sound downright primitive.
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I purchased a pair in mid 2009, Frigidaires. They were the "base model" high-efficiency front loaders, $1000+tax for the pair, "free" delivery. The base drawer+riser was $150 each. We didn't need it. Around 2016, I saw them on clearance at Lowes for $25 each.
Washer/Dryer have been fine. Washer had a draining issue once, opened it (super easy), took out the offending baby socks, some coins, pins, collar tabs, etc. Been good ever since. Washes and dries well, I don't know what other features I'd need that the newer "Smart" models have.
But, but, but, the newer models play a song when they're done!
We just bought a new house. The dryer it came with runs on natural gas instead of electricity, which is nice. But the thing that surprised me was a plastic rack that fits into the dryer and provides a non-spinning platform in the dryer. You use it to put your things on it like shoes that you need to dry but don't want them thumping around inside. I was gob-smacked.
I feel so upper class.
Man, just wear them wet until they dry out. Shouldn't take more than a couple of days...
I didn't buy the house because of the features on the dryer! Hell, I didn't even know about them until some days after we closed on it.
Getting away from the topic of the thread, but... One of my favorite estate sale purchases was a boot dryer. Paid about $5 for it. Stick boots on it, hockey skates, shoes, gloves... It is great.
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I don't hear these often, but the other day, I overheard a coworker telling someone that he took a 401K loan to buy a new washing machine "because those things aren't cheap these days." I know he makes a little over $100K. A washing machine is what, like $600? I hope I misheard, but I don't think I did.
When I looked around last summer, I could find a new one for ~$450 for the basest of base models. Even the super duper high-end, stackable front loaders were only like $1300. I ended up just fixing my 30 year-old Kenmore.
Yep, and if I couldn't cash flow that, I think I'd just buy of Craigslist or use the laundromat for a month or two.
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I don't hear these often, but the other day, I overheard a coworker telling someone that he took a 401K loan to buy a new washing machine "because those things aren't cheap these days." I know he makes a little over $100K. A washing machine is what, like $600? I hope I misheard, but I don't think I did.
When I looked around last summer, I could find a new one for ~$450 for the basest of base models. Even the super duper high-end, stackable front loaders were only like $1300. I ended up just fixing my 30 year-old Kenmore.
Yep, and if I couldn't cash flow that, I think I'd just buy of Craigslist or use the laundromat for a month or two.
I bought my whiteware from a guy who reconditions whiteware FIFTEEN YEARS AGO. He's not the absolute cheapest but he does offer a warranty and all that stuff, and he only does whiteware and obviously quite well. I think my washing machine was $400 or so. The fridge was $500 and he sourced the particular fridge I wanted - single, white, half and half with the freezer on the bottom. Second hand goods are a great deal if you buy them with a bit of thought.
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I purchased a pair in mid 2009, Frigidaires. They were the "base model" high-efficiency front loaders, $1000+tax for the pair, "free" delivery. The base drawer+riser was $150 each. We didn't need it. Around 2016, I saw them on clearance at Lowes for $25 each.
Washer/Dryer have been fine. Washer had a draining issue once, opened it (super easy), took out the offending baby socks, some coins, pins, collar tabs, etc. Been good ever since. Washes and dries well, I don't know what other features I'd need that the newer "Smart" models have.
But, but, but, the newer models play a song when they're done!
We just bought a new house. The dryer it came with runs on natural gas instead of electricity, which is nice. But the thing that surprised me was a plastic rack that fits into the dryer and provides a non-spinning platform in the dryer. You use it to put your things on it like shoes that you need to dry but don't want them thumping around inside. I was gob-smacked.
I feel so upper class.
Man, just wear them wet until they dry out. Shouldn't take more than a couple of days...
Yep, plus they'll have that nice mildewy smell.
For the record - I was joking... ;)
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I don't hear these often, but the other day, I overheard a coworker telling someone that he took a 401K loan to buy a new washing machine "because those things aren't cheap these days." I know he makes a little over $100K. A washing machine is what, like $600? I hope I misheard, but I don't think I did.
When I looked around last summer, I could find a new one for ~$450 for the basest of base models. Even the super duper high-end, stackable front loaders were only like $1300. I ended up just fixing my 30 year-old Kenmore.
Yep, and if I couldn't cash flow that, I think I'd just buy of Craigslist or use the laundromat for a month or two.
I bought my whiteware from a guy who reconditions whiteware FIFTEEN YEARS AGO. He's not the absolute cheapest but he does offer a warranty and all that stuff, and he only does whiteware and obviously quite well. I think my washing machine was $400 or so. The fridge was $500 and he sourced the particular fridge I wanted - single, white, half and half with the freezer on the bottom. Second hand goods are a great deal if you buy them with a bit of thought.
Or even new things too. I'm pretty shocked at how "high end" everything is this days - or what people think is normal.
We bought a fridge in 2001 (new, Kenmore) because the apartment we moved into didn't have one. So, it was $650 or so.
Fast forward to late 2019, and it finally dies (after we replaced a few things along the way). I go down the rabbit hole of looking things up on line (with very few places in town to LOOK), and even went on Craigslist and FB marketplace - but the fridge was dead and we couldn't really go without one for long. Luckily it died BEFORE I did the Sat grocery shopping, so we made do for 3-4 days with a cooler and my work mini-fridge and our mini-freezer.
We were helped by the fact that in our house, my husband built cabinets around the fridge. So, it's a 30" fridge. That really means you aren't buying a $3k fridge. After stressing about water filters, ice makers, stainless steel, french doors...we ended up with... a (new) 2017 Kenmore. They were getting rid of unsold stock. It's black, it was $350, though we did have to pay for delivery. It is nearly identical to the one we replaced except it's black, the freezer is a tiny bit smaller, and the door shelving is not adjustable, like it was on the old fridge. Even on sale, the cheapest other fridge was $1100.
So now, our 16 yo gas stove is dead/ dying. We paid $399 when we bought it new. The repair guy told us it would be $373 to fix. The igniter is bad in the oven part - that's an electrical part, I think my husband could fix it. The largest of the 4 burners is broken, and as it hooks up to gas inside the oven, that's the expensive part. We paid his fee and declined the fix. We'll probably just live with it for awhile. It's undecided whether we'll replace the whole thing or just the igniter and live without a burner.
But here's the thing: "You've earned a new stove!" You know how much a new stove costs? Well, if you look up highly rates ones, apparently I'm supposed to fork out $2k-$3k. However, the very base model of stove (gas or electric), which honestly would be a lower model than we have, is about $375-450. Lower models are generally FAR more reliable, because fewer things break. If I felt like "upgrading" to a fifth burner, then well, it might be $550-600. I prefer gas but I keep reading that electric is better for the environment. I'd worry about breaking the glass top. Not sure but for now, we do nothing.
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But here's the thing: "You've earned a new stove!" You know how much a new stove costs? Well, if you look up highly rates ones, apparently I'm supposed to fork out $2k-$3k. However, the very base model of stove (gas or electric), which honestly would be a lower model than we have, is about $375-450. Lower models are generally FAR more reliable, because fewer things break. If I felt like "upgrading" to a fifth burner, then well, it might be $550-600. I prefer gas but I keep reading that electric is better for the environment. I'd worry about breaking the glass top. Not sure but for now, we do nothing.
Unless your electricity is generated using renewables or nuclear, a gas stove can actually be better for the environment. Gas burned at your stove puts its heat directly into the pan. Energy generated at the power plant has to heat steam, drive a turbine, get geared down, drive a generator, go through a transformer, travel dozens-to-hundreds of miles through power lines, go through at least a couple more transformers, and then finally be turned back into heat at your stove. There's some efficiency loss there :) Besides, natural gas is the cleanest fossil fuel.
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I don't hear these often, but the other day, I overheard a coworker telling someone that he took a 401K loan to buy a new washing machine "because those things aren't cheap these days." I know he makes a little over $100K. A washing machine is what, like $600? I hope I misheard, but I don't think I did.
When I looked around last summer, I could find a new one for ~$450 for the basest of base models. Even the super duper high-end, stackable front loaders were only like $1300. I ended up just fixing my 30 year-old Kenmore.
Yep, and if I couldn't cash flow that, I think I'd just buy of Craigslist or use the laundromat for a month or two.
I bought my whiteware from a guy who reconditions whiteware FIFTEEN YEARS AGO. He's not the absolute cheapest but he does offer a warranty and all that stuff, and he only does whiteware and obviously quite well. I think my washing machine was $400 or so. The fridge was $500 and he sourced the particular fridge I wanted - single, white, half and half with the freezer on the bottom. Second hand goods are a great deal if you buy them with a bit of thought.
Or even new things too. I'm pretty shocked at how "high end" everything is this days - or what people think is normal.
We bought a fridge in 2001 (new, Kenmore) because the apartment we moved into didn't have one. So, it was $650 or so.
Fast forward to late 2019, and it finally dies (after we replaced a few things along the way). I go down the rabbit hole of looking things up on line (with very few places in town to LOOK), and even went on Craigslist and FB marketplace - but the fridge was dead and we couldn't really go without one for long. Luckily it died BEFORE I did the Sat grocery shopping, so we made do for 3-4 days with a cooler and my work mini-fridge and our mini-freezer.
We were helped by the fact that in our house, my husband built cabinets around the fridge. So, it's a 30" fridge. That really means you aren't buying a $3k fridge. After stressing about water filters, ice makers, stainless steel, french doors...we ended up with... a (new) 2017 Kenmore. They were getting rid of unsold stock. It's black, it was $350, though we did have to pay for delivery. It is nearly identical to the one we replaced except it's black, the freezer is a tiny bit smaller, and the door shelving is not adjustable, like it was on the old fridge. Even on sale, the cheapest other fridge was $1100.
So now, our 16 yo gas stove is dead/ dying. We paid $399 when we bought it new. The repair guy told us it would be $373 to fix. The igniter is bad in the oven part - that's an electrical part, I think my husband could fix it. The largest of the 4 burners is broken, and as it hooks up to gas inside the oven, that's the expensive part. We paid his fee and declined the fix. We'll probably just live with it for awhile. It's undecided whether we'll replace the whole thing or just the igniter and live without a burner.
But here's the thing: "You've earned a new stove!" You know how much a new stove costs? Well, if you look up highly rates ones, apparently I'm supposed to fork out $2k-$3k. However, the very base model of stove (gas or electric), which honestly would be a lower model than we have, is about $375-450. Lower models are generally FAR more reliable, because fewer things break. If I felt like "upgrading" to a fifth burner, then well, it might be $550-600. I prefer gas but I keep reading that electric is better for the environment. I'd worry about breaking the glass top. Not sure but for now, we do nothing.
We did some stuff to fix up the kitchen two years ago since we already had contractors at the house to fix the big gaping hole in the roof. We had them run a gas line and a plug for the electric stove we already had. So, what I really want is a dual fuel system with a gas cooktop and electric oven. But it's going to be awhile before I will pull the trigger on that one.
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We just bought a new house. The dryer it came with runs on natural gas instead of electricity, which is nice. But the thing that surprised me was a plastic rack that fits into the dryer and provides a non-spinning platform in the dryer. You use it to put your things on it like shoes that you need to dry but don't want them thumping around inside. I was gob-smacked.
I feel so upper class.
That does sound fancy. Makes setting them out in front of the warm draft from my refrigerator coils sound downright primitive.
My Kenmore dryer is about 30 years old and came with a boot rack. I’ve never used it - I figure that’s what the furnace vents are for.
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We just bought a new house. The dryer it came with runs on natural gas instead of electricity, which is nice. But the thing that surprised me was a plastic rack that fits into the dryer and provides a non-spinning platform in the dryer. You use it to put your things on it like shoes that you need to dry but don't want them thumping around inside. I was gob-smacked.
if you've never had a gas dryer - you'll find it easier on your clothes than an electric dryer.
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We just bought a new house. The dryer it came with runs on natural gas instead of electricity, which is nice. But the thing that surprised me was a plastic rack that fits into the dryer and provides a non-spinning platform in the dryer. You use it to put your things on it like shoes that you need to dry but don't want them thumping around inside. I was gob-smacked.
if you've never had a gas dryer - you'll find it easier on your clothes than an electric dryer.
Agree. Used a gas dryer for a year when I lived in the Boston suburbs. Loved it. (And a gas range too, wife wants it real bad.)
Unfortunately it costs crazy numbers to get a gas tank and lines run into our current house. And need a permit.
But if we do move in next couple of years, we'll be looking for a house that has gas lines for water heater (tank or tankless), range, and dryer. Many newer builds have gas lines, our late '70s ranch house doesn't.
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LOL, the only gas dryer I have ever used (an old one at a relative's "cabin") burned holes in my sheets.
:-)
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A 70 year old man and his 64 year old SO take their aging van to a dealer to get repairs. While waiting, their eyes catch on a new Dodge Journey SUV for about 20k sticker.
They both get Social Security - that's their only source of income. He gets 1000, she gets 750.
They are upside down on the vehicle being repaired. They get $1,500 trade allowance but loan payoff of $5,800, so they roll the $3,,300 into new loan. And get sold a $3,600 service contract. Payments are $700 per month. So of their $1750 income, 700 will go to the new vehicle. And of course rent of 520 so that leaves them about $530 for everything else.
Did I mention his financial statements shown to the dealer show 2 bank accounts. First has $24 positive balance and the other is overdrawn by about $150. So they have less than zero money.
Their loan is for 26.5k at over 20% APR. This works for 1 month.
Then she dies. Now he is stuck with the loan and now only $1,000 income and $1,200 between vehicle and the rent.
Can there be a worse story?
It ought to be illegal for a business to gouge an individual like that. Seriously! Not everyone has the same level of intellect and impulse control to understand how bad their choices are. SO many stories of people buying cars and houses and toys they can't even come close to affording.
We have rules around misleading and deceptive conduct here, as well as consumer credit laws (a credit provider has to undertake due diligence that a customer can service a loan).
However, numerous innovations are seeking to get around these laws, such as buy now, pay later apps and schemes - where you make a series of instalments, and are technically not charged interest.
The problem with trying to put in place unfair contract laws is the expectation that someone signing a contract has already sought proper legal advice. Perhaps there should be a requirement for the lender to ask "have you received legal or financial advice?" If the borrower waives that clause, then don't punish the lender.
Interesting though, the only reason I can think a lender would lend someone money in this situation is that the sales staff gets an upfront commission from it, and head office doesn't clue onto it until much later down the line, or just has bad internal management reporting.
The dealer salesperson may have misrepresented the income sources on the loan app to get it approved, but all parties are probably guilty of greed (buyer, dealer, and lender).
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A guy where I work is planning on buying a nice but used $4200 BMW motorcycle, a $500 helmet, a $300 riding jacket and all the safety gear. This week. He doesnt even have his 6 month emergency fund built up fully yet. Nor does he have a motorcycle license. Nor does he have a true need for the bike. It's a total midlife crisis move to stave off burnout and feeling like he is stuck in a rut. He already has both a pickup and an electric car. Lets not forget the increase in his Geico bill to cover the motorcycle. Facepalm.
I am that guy.
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LOL, the only gas dryer I have ever used (an old one at a relative's "cabin") burned holes in my sheets.
:-)
Funny you mention that my electric dryer just did the same thing. I think things got tuck somehow and one part stayed right in front of the vent. I always use the lowest heat setting so it kinda pissed me off... like I expected the temp to be below burning point
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A guy where I work is planning on buying a nice but used $4200 BMW motorcycle, a $500 helmet, a $300 riding jacket and all the safety gear. This week. He doesnt even have his 6 month emergency fund built up fully yet. Nor does he have a motorcycle license. Nor does he have a true need for the bike. It's a total midlife crisis move to stave off burnout and feeling like he is stuck in a rut. He already has both a pickup and an electric car. Lets not forget the increase in his Geico bill to cover the motorcycle. Facepalm.
I am that guy.
I'll punch you until you swear to get that licence first before paying any more money.
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Coworker: "I talked my husband into letting me keep my car another year"
Me: "How old is it?"
Coworker: "It's a 2015"
Me: "So what's wrong with it?"
Coworker: "Nothing"
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A guy where I work is planning on buying a nice but used $4200 BMW motorcycle, a $500 helmet, a $300 riding jacket and all the safety gear. This week. He doesnt even have his 6 month emergency fund built up fully yet. Nor does he have a motorcycle license. Nor does he have a true need for the bike. It's a total midlife crisis move to stave off burnout and feeling like he is stuck in a rut. He already has both a pickup and an electric car. Lets not forget the increase in his Geico bill to cover the motorcycle. Facepalm.
I am that guy.
No, you are not. You are not buying a motorcycle, nor the helmet, jacket or all the other stuff. You instead are going to go outside for a nice long walk. Or run, either is acceptable. And then you are going to put all that money into your emergency fund.
Then you are going to sit down and look at your life, recognize that you're not happy, figure out what will make you happy (really happy, not just a bandaid), and then start working on a plan to get you to that point.
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LOL, the only gas dryer I have ever used (an old one at a relative's "cabin") burned holes in my sheets.
:-)
Funny you mention that my electric dryer just did the same thing. I think things got tuck somehow and one part stayed right in front of the vent. I always use the lowest heat setting so it kinda pissed me off... like I expected the temp to be below burning point
Ha. Yep. I got little brown polka dot spots all over, some burnt through. I think the flame was inconsistent on that old thing.
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The problem with trying to put in place unfair contract laws is the expectation that someone signing a contract has already sought proper legal advice. Perhaps there should be a requirement for the lender to ask "have you received legal or financial advice?" If the borrower waives that clause, then don't punish the lender.
Interesting though, the only reason I can think a lender would lend someone money in this situation is that the sales staff gets an upfront commission from it, and head office doesn't clue onto it until much later down the line, or just has bad internal management reporting.
The dealer salesperson may have misrepresented the income sources on the loan app to get it approved, but all parties are probably guilty of greed (buyer, dealer, and lender).
Greed is not a crime that can be legislated. Fraud is. Lying on the loan application about the buyer's income would be fraud.
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A guy where I work is planning on buying a nice but used $4200 BMW motorcycle, a $500 helmet, a $300 riding jacket and all the safety gear. This week. He doesnt even have his 6 month emergency fund built up fully yet. Nor does he have a motorcycle license. Nor does he have a true need for the bike. It's a total midlife crisis move to stave off burnout and feeling like he is stuck in a rut. He already has both a pickup and an electric car. Lets not forget the increase in his Geico bill to cover the motorcycle. Facepalm.
I am that guy.
FUNNY! Now go sign up for a motorcycle safety course. Its worth it. I miss having a motorcycle.
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A guy where I work is planning on buying a nice but used $4200 BMW motorcycle, a $500 helmet, a $300 riding jacket and all the safety gear. This week. He doesnt even have his 6 month emergency fund built up fully yet. Nor does he have a motorcycle license. Nor does he have a true need for the bike. It's a total midlife crisis move to stave off burnout and feeling like he is stuck in a rut. He already has both a pickup and an electric car. Lets not forget the increase in his Geico bill to cover the motorcycle. Facepalm.
I am that guy.
FUNNY! Now go sign up for a motorcycle safety course. Its worth it. I miss having a motorcycle.
I hum happy birthday every time I see a motorcycle on the road, hoping my wife will get the hint. She just rolls her eyes.
I sold mine when we got married and have missed it ever since. I will definitely be getting another bike when my kid is older.
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I'm sitting in my office listening to a conversation about "who gets a 15 year mortgage" and how "yeah, it'd be paid off in 15 years of living in hell."
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A guy where I work is planning on buying a nice but used $4200 BMW motorcycle, a $500 helmet, a $300 riding jacket and all the safety gear. This week. He doesnt even have his 6 month emergency fund built up fully yet. Nor does he have a motorcycle license. Nor does he have a true need for the bike. It's a total midlife crisis move to stave off burnout and feeling like he is stuck in a rut. He already has both a pickup and an electric car. Lets not forget the increase in his Geico bill to cover the motorcycle. Facepalm.
I am that guy.
FUNNY! Now go sign up for a motorcycle safety course. Its worth it. I miss having a motorcycle.
I hum happy birthday every time I see a motorcycle on the road, hoping my wife will get the hint. She just rolls her eyes.
I sold mine when we got married and have missed it ever since. I will definitely be getting another bike when my kid is older.
Yep, sold mine when the babies started coming. Baby #1 is grown. Baby #2 is almost driving. Want a Honda ST-series or a Ural sidecar.
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I'm sitting in my office listening to a conversation about "who gets a 15 year mortgage" and how "yeah, it'd be paid off in 15 years of living in hell."
That doesn't sound like an @boarder42 kind of discussion...
I'm guessing then, for their context, the answer to the first question is "Um... people who don't buy more house than they can afford?"
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I'm sitting in my office listening to a conversation about "who gets a 15 year mortgage" and how "yeah, it'd be paid off in 15 years of living in hell."
That doesn't sound like an @boarder42 kind of discussion...
I'm guessing then, for their context, the answer to the first question is "Um... people who don't buy more house than they can afford?"
Exactly. And we live in a part of the world where a perfectly acceptable "starter" home, like the one I live in, can be had for under $100k. This guy is talking about how the replacement value from his insurance company is at $300k. He doesn't make *that* much more than me.
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I'm sitting in my office listening to a conversation about "who gets a 15 year mortgage" and how "yeah, it'd be paid off in 15 years of living in hell."
That doesn't sound like an @boarder42 kind of discussion...
I'm guessing then, for their context, the answer to the first question is "Um... people who don't buy more house than they can afford?"
The same idiots who put more than 3% down payment
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A guy where I work is planning on buying a nice but used $4200 BMW motorcycle, a $500 helmet, a $300 riding jacket and all the safety gear. This week. He doesnt even have his 6 month emergency fund built up fully yet. Nor does he have a motorcycle license. Nor does he have a true need for the bike. It's a total midlife crisis move to stave off burnout and feeling like he is stuck in a rut. He already has both a pickup and an electric car. Lets not forget the increase in his Geico bill to cover the motorcycle. Facepalm.
I am that guy.
FUNNY! Now go sign up for a motorcycle safety course. Its worth it. I miss having a motorcycle.
You can have the motorcycle AFTER you sell the truck AND after you get a motorcycle safety course AND you get your license.
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Please excuse the quick off topic link for the motorcyclists, especially the former motorcyclists:
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/a-returned-riders-story
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A guy where I work is planning on buying a nice but used $4200 BMW motorcycle, a $500 helmet, a $300 riding jacket and all the safety gear. This week. He doesnt even have his 6 month emergency fund built up fully yet. Nor does he have a motorcycle license. Nor does he have a true need for the bike. It's a total midlife crisis move to stave off burnout and feeling like he is stuck in a rut. He already has both a pickup and an electric car. Lets not forget the increase in his Geico bill to cover the motorcycle. Facepalm.
I am that guy.
Take it from somebody who was that guy- motorcycles are just a different kind of rut. I've purchased several over the years.
Only vehicle I've ever purchased that got me out of a rut was a really nice bicycle. And it turns out it probably wasn't actually the bicycle itself that did it.
But please get that license. If you have access to it, the MSF course is both useful and fun.
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I purchased a pair in mid 2009, Frigidaires. They were the "base model" high-efficiency front loaders, $1000+tax for the pair, "free" delivery. The base drawer+riser was $150 each. We didn't need it. Around 2016, I saw them on clearance at Lowes for $25 each.
Washer/Dryer have been fine. Washer had a draining issue once, opened it (super easy), took out the offending baby socks, some coins, pins, collar tabs, etc. Been good ever since. Washes and dries well, I don't know what other features I'd need that the newer "Smart" models have.
But, but, but, the newer models play a song when they're done!
That's nice and all, but there are just some things that don't necessarily need to be "smart" (like the smart kitchen faucet...just why?). My laundry room is semi-detached, so sending an alert to my phone when it's done would be kind of nifty, but I've gone 10 years now just remembering to check on it after 30 or 40 minutes and I've lived.
I set the timer on the stove to remind about the dryer.
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Nor does he have a true need for the bike.
I am that guy.
there's always a true need for a bike :-)
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I purchased a pair in mid 2009, Frigidaires. They were the "base model" high-efficiency front loaders, $1000+tax for the pair, "free" delivery. The base drawer+riser was $150 each. We didn't need it. Around 2016, I saw them on clearance at Lowes for $25 each.
Washer/Dryer have been fine. Washer had a draining issue once, opened it (super easy), took out the offending baby socks, some coins, pins, collar tabs, etc. Been good ever since. Washes and dries well, I don't know what other features I'd need that the newer "Smart" models have.
But, but, but, the newer models play a song when they're done!
That's nice and all, but there are just some things that don't necessarily need to be "smart" (like the smart kitchen faucet...just why?). My laundry room is semi-detached, so sending an alert to my phone when it's done would be kind of nifty, but I've gone 10 years now just remembering to check on it after 30 or 40 minutes and I've lived.
I set the timer on the stove to remind about the dryer.
I love that kind of simple solution. Well done.
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My problem was that my old washer would say it had 10 min left on the cycle and then 20min later it would still be finishing up the spin cycle.
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A guy where I work is planning on buying a nice but used $4200 BMW motorcycle, a $500 helmet, a $300 riding jacket and all the safety gear. This week. He doesnt even have his 6 month emergency fund built up fully yet. Nor does he have a motorcycle license. Nor does he have a true need for the bike. It's a total midlife crisis move to stave off burnout and feeling like he is stuck in a rut. He already has both a pickup and an electric car. Lets not forget the increase in his Geico bill to cover the motorcycle. Facepalm.
I am that guy.
At least it is only $4200 bucks. You could be as stupid as I am and buy a brand new gixxer! Now THAT is face punch worthy. But I absolutely love that thing. It is my one true indulgence.
Curious what kind of of beamer you're considering.
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A guy where I work is planning on buying a nice but used $4200 BMW motorcycle, a $500 helmet, a $300 riding jacket and all the safety gear. This week. He doesnt even have his 6 month emergency fund built up fully yet. Nor does he have a motorcycle license. Nor does he have a true need for the bike. It's a total midlife crisis move to stave off burnout and feeling like he is stuck in a rut. He already has both a pickup and an electric car. Lets not forget the increase in his Geico bill to cover the motorcycle. Facepalm.
I am that guy.
Me too. I want a simple bike like a Yamaha VStar 250, or a Honda Rebel 300.
But need to take the MSF course. May take it this summer in the FL heat.
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Sitting with a group of co-workers before a meeting. The rest of the group (there were 4 of us) were discussing having their taxes done and what their plans were for their refund.
CW1: Hudsoncat what are you going to do with your refund?
Me: Oh I don't usually get much of a refund. I keep with holdings pretty close. In fact most years I have to pay a bit.
[chorus of I could never do that! I rely on the refund! Etc]
CW2: In fact I have them take an additional $50 out of my check each pay check to make sure I get a nice refund! I call it my vacation fund.
Me: Have you considered just putting that money directly into your savings account for vacation? Even the most basic savings account would gain a little interest in your favor.
CW2: oh no I don't have the will power to transfer it each month. This way I never see it and am not tempted.
Me: You can set up an automatic transfer. It would come out the same day as direct deposit, you'd still never 'see it' in your account.
CW2: But my checking account and savings are linked, I'd see it!
Me: Why not consider setting up a high yield savings account not with your bank? Shoot, you could even split your direct deposits from work and really never see the money until you logged in!
CW3: That just seems like a lot of work to set up.
CW2: yeah, I think I'll just stick to making sure I get a refund every year.
I bowed out of the conversation at that point knowing CW2 was set on her process. And in the grand scheme of things, she probably isn't missing out on much money by not having it go directly into savings, but the entire conversation did still take me back a bit.
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Sitting with a group of co-workers before a meeting. The rest of the group (there were 4 of us) were discussing having their taxes done and what their plans were for their refund.
CW1: Hudsoncat what are you going to do with your refund?
Me: Oh I don't usually get much of a refund. I keep with holdings pretty close. In fact most years I have to pay a bit.
[chorus of I could never do that! I rely on the refund! Etc]
CW2: In fact I have them take an additional $50 out of my check each pay check to make sure I get a nice refund! I call it my vacation fund.
Me: Have you considered just putting that money directly into your savings account for vacation? Even the most basic savings account would gain a little interest in your favor.
CW2: oh no I don't have the will power to transfer it each month. This way I never see it and am not tempted.
Me: You can set up an automatic transfer. It would come out the same day as direct deposit, you'd still never 'see it' in your account.
CW2: But my checking account and savings are linked, I'd see it!
Me: Why not consider setting up a high yield savings account not with your bank? Shoot, you could even split your direct deposits from work and really never see the money until you logged in!
CW3: That just seems like a lot of work to set up.
CW2: yeah, I think I'll just stick to making sure I get a refund every year.
I bowed out of the conversation at that point knowing CW2 was set on her process. And in the grand scheme of things, she probably isn't missing out on much money by not having it go directly into savings, but the entire conversation did still take me back a bit.
We often poopoo people for not setting withholding to zero and missing out on that interest, but the interest gained is generally pretty insignificant. The average tax refund is $3k; assuming 2% interest and the fact that 1/12 of that is saved every month, the interest lost is only $28 or so. That's not worth arguing over.
That number came out a lot lower than I was expecting, so my math may be wrong, but I'm running out the door and can't check. Sorry if it's wrong.
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We often poopoo people for not setting withholding to zero and missing out on that interest, but the interest gained is generally pretty insignificant. The average tax refund is $3k; assuming 2% interest and the fact that 1/12 of that is saved every month, the interest lost is only $28 or so. That's not worth arguing over.
That number came out a lot lower than I was expecting, so my math may be wrong, but I'm running out the door and can't check. Sorry if it's wrong.
I agree in that sense. It isn't much money to miss out on.But the lack of self discipline was what took me aback. I guess good on her to at least have self awareness and to find a way to force herself to save?
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We often poopoo people for not setting withholding to zero and missing out on that interest, but the interest gained is generally pretty insignificant. The average tax refund is $3k; assuming 2% interest and the fact that 1/12 of that is saved every month, the interest lost is only $28 or so. That's not worth arguing over.
That number came out a lot lower than I was expecting, so my math may be wrong, but I'm running out the door and can't check. Sorry if it's wrong.
I agree in that sense. It isn't much money to miss out on.But the lack of self discipline was what took me aback. I guess good on her to at least have self awareness and to find a way to force herself to save?
And for actually understanding how tax refunds work. I've spoken to several people who seem to think it's just a magical number that they have no control over.
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We often poopoo people for not setting withholding to zero and missing out on that interest, but the interest gained is generally pretty insignificant. The average tax refund is $3k; assuming 2% interest and the fact that 1/12 of that is saved every month, the interest lost is only $28 or so. That's not worth arguing over.
That number came out a lot lower than I was expecting, so my math may be wrong, but I'm running out the door and can't check. Sorry if it's wrong.
I agree in that sense. It isn't much money to miss out on.But the lack of self discipline was what took me aback. I guess good on her to at least have self awareness and to find a way to force herself to save?
And for actually understanding how tax refunds work. I've spoken to several people who seem to think it's just a magical number that they have no control over.
It seems to be along the lines of "I hate taxes, the government is corrupt, but look at this bonus I get for following the rules!"
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(http://www.signs4retail.com/images/CM-TAX.gif)
People do think it is free money and that becomes their reason to spend it on something they would not normally buy. I hear this all the time during tax season "Getting a new TV... taking a vacation.. new video game console... with my refund cheque". It is ok since the refund cheque is not restricted to any spending budgets or pay off debt schedule. The tax refund cheque is a great logical loophole to financial responsibility!
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I'm a tax professional and whenever people ask me what I do at a party or something, the first question is 'what are your tips and tricks to give me a bigger tax return?!'. My standard answer of paying more taxes during the year isn't what they are looking for. Even many well educated people have no idea how taxes work. They could if they tried to but they would rather bury their heads in the sand so they can say it's not their fault when they get into trouble.
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People do think it is free money and that becomes their reason to spend it on something they would not normally buy. I hear this all the time during tax season "Getting a new TV... taking a vacation.. new video game console... with my refund cheque". It is ok since the refund cheque is not restricted to any spending budgets or pay off debt schedule. The tax refund cheque is a great logical loophole to financial responsibility!
I must be doing it wrong. While I am getting a substantial refund, it's going towards things like bumping up the sinking fund for the new HVAC unit that I'm going to need sooner rather than later.
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I think we should admit that setting money aside by complying with Federal law isn't the most efficient way of saving money, but at least it's saving (and not consumption).
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We often poopoo people for not setting withholding to zero and missing out on that interest, but the interest gained is generally pretty insignificant. The average tax refund is $3k; assuming 2% interest and the fact that 1/12 of that is saved every month, the interest lost is only $28 or so. That's not worth arguing over.
That number came out a lot lower than I was expecting, so my math may be wrong, but I'm running out the door and can't check. Sorry if it's wrong.
I agree in that sense. It isn't much money to miss out on.But the lack of self discipline was what took me aback. I guess good on her to at least have self awareness and to find a way to force herself to save?
And for actually understanding how tax refunds work. I've spoken to several people who seem to think it's just a magical number that they have no control over.
Eh... For some of us, it is. I have a degree in mathematics, and I've failed to correctly estimate my tax liability for the past 3 years despite ostensibly understanding how it works. Between all the pre/post tax advantaged accounts, student loan interest deduction, different side-gigs producing between 1-4 1099MISCs, not to mention the 3 W2's between my wife and I, we gave up and shoot for a hefty return refund each year. We figured it ended up being a lot less work and a lot less stress to withhold more from each paycheck, then we use the refund to pump it all into savings/debt (IRA, 401k, HSA, Student Loans... whatever the right flavor is each year).
Blah blah, interest free loan. Over the grand scheme of things, it isn't going to impact us much.
Edited because I said "return" when I meant "refund"
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My wife's Roth is a one-time investment (we back-door), but all the rest, 401K, health savings acct., etc., are per pay-check for us.
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I'm a tax professional and whenever people ask me what I do at a party or something, the first question is 'what are your tips and tricks to give me a bigger tax return?!'.
The dad answer is to blow it up with a photocopy machine. The greater the percentage, the larger the return. Works for paychecks too.
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While waiting for a committee meeting to begin on campus, a colleague from another department said, “now that the university is freezing the pension, I’ll finally get around to signing up for a 403 account. I kept meaning to do it.” Me, “how long have you worked here?” Him, “15 years.”
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A colleague walked into my office today and said, "Do you like to make bad decisions?" Not knowing where he was going, I said "absolutely I do," and he showed me photos of a 15 year old Class-A RV that he was about to buy for $21K. Double kicker: it needs $6K of engine work as soon as he buys it.
We chatted about it for a while, and he told me that they needed something to spend their time on after they sold their house boat late last year: "we lost SO much money on that boat." I asked him what kinds of places he was looking to go RV'ing in, and he didn't have an answer. He said things like "well, if we ever drive over to [major metropolitan area 4 hours away], we can just take the RV!" and, "it'll be great to have if we need it!"
Just smile and wave, boys. Smile and wave.
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That's nice and all, but there are just some things that don't necessarily need to be "smart" (like the smart kitchen faucet...just why?). My laundry room is semi-detached, so sending an alert to my phone when it's done would be kind of nifty, but I've gone 10 years now just remembering to check on it after 30 or 40 minutes and I've lived.
I set the timer on the stove to remind about the dryer.
I stuck a NFC tag I had laying around to my washer so now I just scan it with my phone and it automatically starts a timer for 40 minutes
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While waiting for a committee meeting to begin on campus, a colleague from another department said, “now that the university is freezing the pension, I’ll finally get around to signing up for a 403 account. I kept meaning to do it.” Me, “how long have you worked here?” Him, “15 years.”
This one was truly painful to read.
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A colleague walked into my office today and said, "Do you like to make bad decisions?" Not knowing where he was going, I said "absolutely I do," and he showed me photos of a 15 year old Class-A RV that he was about to buy for $21K. Double kicker: it needs $6K of engine work as soon as he buys it.
We chatted about it for a while, and he told me that they needed something to spend their time on after they sold their house boat late last year: "we lost SO much money on that boat." I asked him what kinds of places he was looking to go RV'ing in, and he didn't have an answer. He said things like "well, if we ever drive over to [major metropolitan area 4 hours away], we can just take the RV!" and, "it'll be great to have if we need it!"
Just smile and wave, boys. Smile and wave.
Oh parking an RV in a metro area sounds like lots of fun. So does sleeping in parking lots... I'm a fan of incognito van campers though. Much easier to use. Possibly safer if a person did want to sleep in a parking lot.
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My coworkers and I were discussing the possibility of moving to a LCOL area with our company. I was like, it would be nice to have a lower tax burden and cheaper rent. My coworker was like "you'd just find new ways to spend that money, it doesn't really make a difference." I was like, I would actively try to NOT spend the difference, I do have control over that after all. His was response was just "really?"
I don't think he knows spending is something you can actively control and not just something that happens to you.
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My coworkers and I were discussing the possibility of moving to a LCOL area with our company. I was like, it would be nice to have a lower tax burden and cheaper rent. My coworker was like "you'd just find new ways to spend that money, it doesn't really make a difference." I was like, I would actively try to NOT spend the difference, I do have control over that after all. His was response was just "really?"
I don't think he knows spending is something you can actively control and not just something that happens to you.
My parents are really rather frugal, but even my Mom always told me that expenses would find a way to meet your paycheck. Maybe she meant it as warning, but she stated it as a fact. Luckily, I had reached a decent level of satisfaction just before I met DH. Everything he contributed when he moved in with me went straight to savings.
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My coworkers and I were discussing the possibility of moving to a LCOL area with our company. I was like, it would be nice to have a lower tax burden and cheaper rent. My coworker was like "you'd just find new ways to spend that money, it doesn't really make a difference." I was like, I would actively try to NOT spend the difference, I do have control over that after all. His was response was just "really?"
I don't think he knows spending is something you can actively control and not just something that happens to you.
Sounds like the type of person who would accidentally find themselves pregnant and not know how it happened.
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My coworkers and I were discussing the possibility of moving to a LCOL area with our company. I was like, it would be nice to have a lower tax burden and cheaper rent. My coworker was like "you'd just find new ways to spend that money, it doesn't really make a difference." I was like, I would actively try to NOT spend the difference, I do have control over that after all. His was response was just "really?"
I don't think he knows spending is something you can actively control and not just something that happens to you.
My parents are really rather frugal, but even my Mom always told me that expenses would find a way to meet your paycheck. Maybe she meant it as warning, but she stated it as a fact. Luckily, I had reached a decent level of satisfaction just before I met DH. Everything he contributed when he moved in with me went straight to savings.
This would happen to me if I weren't mustachian, for sure. DW and I talk about how possessions are liquid, in that however big your house is, that's how much stuff you will usually grow to accumulate. I could see the same thing happening with expenses if you weren't privy to fighting the instinct to be a consuma sucka!
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A guy where I work is planning on buying a nice but used $4200 BMW motorcycle, a $500 helmet, a $300 riding jacket and all the safety gear. This week. He doesnt even have his 6 month emergency fund built up fully yet. Nor does he have a motorcycle license. Nor does he have a true need for the bike. It's a total midlife crisis move to stave off burnout and feeling like he is stuck in a rut. He already has both a pickup and an electric car. Lets not forget the increase in his Geico bill to cover the motorcycle. Facepalm.
I am that guy.
No, you are not. You are not buying a motorcycle, nor the helmet, jacket or all the other stuff. You instead are going to go outside for a nice long walk. Or run, either is acceptable. And then you are going to put all that money into your emergency fund.
Then you are going to sit down and look at your life, recognize that you're not happy, figure out what will make you happy (really happy, not just a bandaid), and then start working on a plan to get you to that point.
Funny, this dude made one other post the same day and nothing since. I'd like to think they listened to your wisdom, @Sibley. That's a much happier possibility than they actually did it, crashed the bike, and can no longer post...
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I'm a tax professional and whenever people ask me what I do at a party or something, the first question is 'what are your tips and tricks to give me a bigger tax return?!'.
The dad answer is to blow it up with a photocopy machine. The greater the percentage, the larger the return. Works for paychecks too.
I want you to know that I appreciate your humor, pedantry and knowledge of the most misused tax term.
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My coworkers and I were discussing the possibility of moving to a LCOL area with our company. I was like, it would be nice to have a lower tax burden and cheaper rent. My coworker was like "you'd just find new ways to spend that money, it doesn't really make a difference." I was like, I would actively try to NOT spend the difference, I do have control over that after all. His was response was just "really?"
I don't think he knows spending is something you can actively control and not just something that happens to you.
Sounds like the type of person who would accidentally find themselves pregnant and not know how it happened.
Yep. It amazes me that some people don't seem to realize that they can control various aspects of their lives.
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A guy where I work is planning on buying a nice but used $4200 BMW motorcycle, a $500 helmet, a $300 riding jacket and all the safety gear. This week. He doesnt even have his 6 month emergency fund built up fully yet. Nor does he have a motorcycle license. Nor does he have a true need for the bike. It's a total midlife crisis move to stave off burnout and feeling like he is stuck in a rut. He already has both a pickup and an electric car. Lets not forget the increase in his Geico bill to cover the motorcycle. Facepalm.
I am that guy.
No, you are not. You are not buying a motorcycle, nor the helmet, jacket or all the other stuff. You instead are going to go outside for a nice long walk. Or run, either is acceptable. And then you are going to put all that money into your emergency fund.
Then you are going to sit down and look at your life, recognize that you're not happy, figure out what will make you happy (really happy, not just a bandaid), and then start working on a plan to get you to that point.
Funny, this dude made one other post the same day and nothing since. I'd like to think they listened to your wisdom, @Sibley. That's a much happier possibility than they actually did it, crashed the bike, and can no longer post...
Well, doctors do call them “donorcycles” ........
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Yep. It amazes me that some people don't seem to realize that they can control various aspects of their lives.
I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard someone say with a shrug, "Well, what can you do" about something they can, in fact, do something about.
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I'm a tax professional and whenever people ask me what I do at a party or something, the first question is 'what are your tips and tricks to give me a bigger tax return?!'. My standard answer of paying more taxes during the year isn't what they are looking for. Even many well educated people have no idea how taxes work. They could if they tried to but they would rather bury their heads in the sand so they can say it's not their fault when they get into trouble.
Make less money.
Have kids.
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Yep. It amazes me that some people don't seem to realize that they can control various aspects of their lives.
I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard someone say with a shrug, "Well, what can you do" about something they can, in fact, do something about.
Yes, they always forget to add "without doing anything".
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Buy a "project bike". That way you get all the benefits of having a motorcycle - except the riding it part... You can stand around and admire it, polish it, brag about it, and spend money on it. It won't move under it's own power so it is absolutely safe and no insurance or license is required.
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Overheard via Text:
Friend: I was doing a balance transfer from one card to two others to get 0% and I hit the button too many times so the balance transferred was actually twice what it should have been. I called all the card companies and they said they can't reverse it at this time so I will have to wait until it is complete to request an overage check. It may turn out to be a good thing though as I will use the check to pay off another card that's leaving the 0% period soon.
Us: *Facepalm*
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Overheard via Text:
Friend: I was doing a balance transfer from one card to two others to get 0% and I hit the button too many times so the balance transferred was actually twice what it should have been. I called all the card companies and they said they can't reverse it at this time so I will have to wait until it is complete to request an overage check. It may turn out to be a good thing though as I will use the check to pay off another card that's leaving the 0% period soon.
Us: *Facepalm*
This actually doesn't sound too bad to me. Intentionally credit-card-hacking to give yourself a 0% loan can actually be pretty Mustachian, depending on what you do with the money. More work than I'm willing to put in, but some people here do.
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it would be one thing if it was on purpose, but this was completely accidental. Then there is the issue that they had to split one card onto two others because of balances, and the implication that they have a fourth card that they will be using to pay off/pay down. This was the same person who told me that they couldn't save $7500 for a down payment for a home when they make over $70K a year(probably closer to $80K). Knowing this person they are not likely making much more than minimum payments so the transfer fees are eating an interest rate savings.
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Overheard via Text:
Friend: I was doing a balance transfer from one card to two others to get 0% and I hit the button too many times so the balance transferred was actually twice what it should have been. I called all the card companies and they said they can't reverse it at this time so I will have to wait until it is complete to request an overage check. It may turn out to be a good thing though as I will use the check to pay off another card that's leaving the 0% period soon.
Us: *Facepalm*
This actually doesn't sound too bad to me. Intentionally credit-card-hacking to give yourself a 0% loan can actually be pretty Mustachian, depending on what you do with the money. More work than I'm willing to put in, but some people here do.
Usually those 0% loans come with a 3-5% balance transfer fee.
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Buy a "project bike". That way you get all the benefits of having a motorcycle - except the riding it part... You can stand around and admire it, polish it, brag about it, and spend money on it. It won't move under it's own power so it is absolutely safe and no insurance or license is required.
That could be a good plan, but only if you already have a motorcycle for riding.
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Buy a "project bike". That way you get all the benefits of having a motorcycle - except the riding it part... You can stand around and admire it, polish it, brag about it, and spend money on it. It won't move under it's own power so it is absolutely safe and no insurance or license is required.
This sounds vaguely like my ex-BF ;-).
You had a project BF? :D
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Buy a "project bike". That way you get all the benefits of having a motorcycle - except the riding it part... You can stand around and admire it, polish it, brag about it, and spend money on it. It won't move under it's own power so it is absolutely safe and no insurance or license is required.
This sounds vaguely like my ex-BF ;-).
You had a project BF? :D
Ha — many of us have had those... we just didn’t know it for a while! :D
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Buy a "project bike". That way you get all the benefits of having a motorcycle - except the riding it part... You can stand around and admire it, polish it, brag about it, and spend money on it. It won't move under it's own power so it is absolutely safe and no insurance or license is required.
That could be a good plan, but only if you already have a motorcycle for riding.
But but but....that means it'll get dirty and we can't have that now can we. I mean if we are talking clown motorcycles then they must be shiny and bug free ALL the time or how will people know you are so rich ;-).
I use to commute to my job on an old beater motorcycle which was apparently not fancy enough for the fancy Harley guys I worked with. Oh well. I FIREd and could ride whenever I wanted, for as long as I wanted, and they are still taking their 2 week vacation at Sturgis and doing the 9 to 5 the rest of the year with their bikes sitting unused in their garages. But they are shiny!
And Sturgis is fun. But definitely filled with lots of shiny bikes. I have no bike but happened to be visiting the Black Hills on a road trip during the Sturgis bike event. I was there in an old Toyota Camry.
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A couple weeks ago my employer had an investment guy come in and talk to us about basic saving/investing, as well as the company RRSP matching program. I work at an RV dealership.
It wasn't very informative since it was very general, but I learned some tax stuff. Anyway, the first slide and first ten minutes were spent talking about how debt is terrible, and the guy called it "cancer" probably six or seven times. The air got pretty thick in the room for that bit. He was talking about how car loans, credit card debts and financing too much stuff are terrible for your finances and I found it refreshing to hear this attitude inside the walls of my dealership.
Not really deriding anyone in this post, as is the tradition for this thread, but it was an interesting moment and I'm glad someone else was finally around to tell me the financial equivalent of "gravity is real", after years of hearing how it isn't.
I hope some of the people in the room learned something and left feeling more empowered in their financial situation.
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It wasn't very informative since it was very general, but I learned some tax stuff. Anyway, the first slide and first ten minutes were spent talking about how debt is terrible, and the guy called it "cancer" probably six or seven times.
hm... I somehow had "sound of silence" spring up in my mind. Maybe someone could make a song "Sound of Debt"?
"Debt like a cancer grows
Hear my words so that I might teach you..."
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The irony of that is funny- I would bet the majority of the RVs are sold there with debt attached so it is kind of like a company health consultant coming into Budweiser declaring to the employees how alcohol is pure poison. Their consultant rails against the thing the company has to deliver daily, that had to be awkward.
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The irony of that is funny- I would bet the majority of the RVs are sold there with debt attached so it is kind of like a company health consultant coming into Budweiser declaring to the employees how alcohol is pure poison. Their consultant rails against the thing the company has to deliver daily, that had to be awkward.
As the advisor said, debt is okay if it's readily serviceable. I wouldn't pay interest on toys, but that's just me. You're right though, tons of debt in rvs. 20+ year terms have kept the industry going, to my benefit.
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Overheard at work during lunch
Colleague 1: "I always take out a loan for a new car"
Colleague 2: "Me too. I've always taken out loans when I needed a new car"
Colleague 1: "I don't know anyone who has never taken out a loan for a new car"
Colleague 2: "I don't know anyone who has actually paid the full amount for a new car"
Colleague 1: "It was 35 grand for the Model 3 Tesla, waiting for it to be shipped from San Francisco"
And so on and so on, with slight variations on the main topic theme of taking out loans for new cars.
What makes it doubly perplexing is that people I am talking and with whom I work every day are not fools, being in senior technical positions and used to tackling difficult engineering problems.
I didn't chime in by saying I never take out loans for cars (or indeed anything) and never will. They would have looked at me like I'm from Venus or something. I'm simply glad I was able to happily sit and listen with respectful indifference to their anecdotes of finance deals, interest rates, payback "deals" and so forth.
I often feel sometimes like I was put on the wrong planet. Do others feel the same?
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Yes, absolutely @happyuk .
I work with people who are in senior finance positions and have degrees in finance / accounting / economics etc. For some reason, even though these people work with large sums of company money every single day and perfectly understand concepts like interest calculation, many seem to be totally incapable of applying them to their own private life.
We were discussing health insurance a while back. In my country the standard deductible is about €400, but you can choose a higher deductible of up to €800 and then you get a discount on your premium. The break-even point is two years. My partner is in very good health and has had a high deductible for 10 years. That means he saves €400 on health insurance premiums. As several coworkers are also in very good health (I'm not) I asked them if they had a high deductible. They looked at me as if I had 3 heads when I told them about my partner's choice. "But what if he gets a health issue?" Well, then we pay €800. "But where would you get the money so quickly?" Well, we've saved €400 every year over the past couple of years so it's not an issue. "But what if he gets a long term illness?" Then he will choose not have a high deductible next year. In the end, they couldn't understand me, I couldn't understand them, they just walked off shaking their heads at my financial irresponsibility - I am known for that, since we also both work parttime and we don't have a car. [FYI: we just did a back of the envelope calculation and if we include the value of our home and resell value of our business equipment, our joint NW is now officially in 6-figure territory. I'm 29]. It's like they somehow think money evaporates when it's not being spent.
Also, interest is a big thing. Some coworkers have talked about aggressively paying off their student loans, because everyone knows student loans are baaaad. While paying off loans is at least better than spending money on consumer crap, I really don't get why 0% interest student loans have such a bad reputation while they happily get new car loans and higher mortgages. This financially irresponsible Milennial has applied for the maximum loan I could get to pay for grad school tuition because the government's offer is so good: 0% interest, income based repayment over 30 years, even though I had the money in my bank account. I have just signed a quote for further insulation of our old house which I will pay from my savings instead.
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I didn't chime in by saying I never take out loans for cars (or indeed anything) and never will.
I once took out a 53€ "loan" for 3 weeks (unluckyly 2 bigger things got broken at nearly same time and the money just wasn't enough) since I was too lazy to go to the bank and put my cash reserves on the account. Cost me 34 cent in interest until next money came in. (I shudder every time I think about people who always live in that dispo credit area.)
Since I still remember that from 10 years ago you may be able to guess how many other loans I had ;)
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Overheard at work during lunch
Colleague 1: "I always take out a loan for a new car"
Colleague 2: "Me too. I've always taken out loans when I needed a new car"
Colleague 1: "I don't know anyone who has never taken out a loan for a new car"
Colleague 2: "I don't know anyone who has actually paid the full amount for a new car"
Colleague 1: "It was 35 grand for the Model 3 Tesla, waiting for it to be shipped from San Francisco"
And so on and so on, with slight variations on the main topic theme of taking out loans for new cars.
What makes it doubly perplexing is that people I am talking and with whom I work every day are not fools, being in senior technical positions and used to tackling difficult engineering problems.
I didn't chime in by saying I never take out loans for cars (or indeed anything) and never will. They would have looked at me like I'm from Venus or something. I'm simply glad I was able to happily sit and listen with respectful indifference to their anecdotes of finance deals, interest rates, payback "deals" and so forth.
I often feel sometimes like I was put on the wrong planet. Do others feel the same?
A wise woman on here once said "My Mustachian Person Problem is that sometimes I wish I could go back in the Matrix." It's definitely isolating to be financially (or otherwise) countercultural.
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Overheard at work during lunch
Colleague 1: "I always take out a loan for a new car"
Colleague 2: "Me too. I've always taken out loans when I needed a new car"
Colleague 1: "I don't know anyone who has never taken out a loan for a new car"
Colleague 2: "I don't know anyone who has actually paid the full amount for a new car"
Colleague 1: "It was 35 grand for the Model 3 Tesla, waiting for it to be shipped from San Francisco"
And so on and so on, with slight variations on the main topic theme of taking out loans for new cars.
What makes it doubly perplexing is that people I am talking and with whom I work every day are not fools, being in senior technical positions and used to tackling difficult engineering problems.
I didn't chime in by saying I never take out loans for cars (or indeed anything) and never will. They would have looked at me like I'm from Venus or something. I'm simply glad I was able to happily sit and listen with respectful indifference to their anecdotes of finance deals, interest rates, payback "deals" and so forth.
I often feel sometimes like I was put on the wrong planet. Do others feel the same?
A wise woman on here once said "My Mustachian Person Problem is that sometimes I wish I could go back in the Matrix." It's definitely isolating to be financially (or otherwise) countercultural.
Ah yes. Of course! Mustachians are the ones that have decided to swallow the red pill and see the world as it is in all it awfulness. We don't want to be comfortably numb.
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I recently left my job with nothing lined up. The not-quite-truth I told the company is that I was returning to school full time to pursue a change of career. The actual truth is more complicated, but the gist of it is that I was tired of working and wanted to take a break, had the savings to do so, wanted to focus on my art & growing my tiny business, and did want to go back to school and change careers... eventually, when I felt like it.
My coworkers were lovely, supportive people, but some of them were clearly very worried about me. One of them even asked, "but how will you survive??" I'm pretty sure she thought of the both of us as being in similar financial boats (student debt, car loan, paycheck to paycheck, tons of expenses, barely able to make minimum contributions to retirement), and I've never given her any reason to think otherwise. I smiled and told her that I had saved up some money and would take out student loans as needed to cover the rest (I won't be taking out any student loans) and her look of shock was.... I don't know. Not to get up on some snooty MMM high horse, but it just made me feel bad for her.
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I worked at a place where some people were unhappy but didn't feel they could survive the more or less month between the old and new employer's paychecks. It was really sad. Its a good education for a new employee to see. Its an important topic I share with young folks when I get the opportunity. Savings = freedom.
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I recently left my job with nothing lined up. The not-quite-truth I told the company is that I was returning to school full time to pursue a change of career. The actual truth is more complicated, but the gist of it is that I was tired of working and wanted to take a break, had the savings to do so, wanted to focus on my art & growing my tiny business, and did want to go back to school and change careers... eventually, when I felt like it.
My coworkers were lovely, supportive people, but some of them were clearly very worried about me. One of them even asked, "but how will you survive??" I'm pretty sure she thought of the both of us as being in similar financial boats (student debt, car loan, paycheck to paycheck, tons of expenses, barely able to make minimum contributions to retirement), and I've never given her any reason to think otherwise. I smiled and told her that I had saved up some money and would take out student loans as needed to cover the rest (I won't be taking out any student loans) and her look of shock was.... I don't know. Not to get up on some snooty MMM high horse, but it just made me feel bad for her.
Overheard at work during lunch
*snip*
I didn't chime in by saying I never take out loans for cars (or indeed anything) and never will. They would have looked at me like I'm from Venus or something. I'm simply glad I was able to happily sit and listen with respectful indifference to their anecdotes of finance deals, interest rates, payback "deals" and so forth.
I often feel sometimes like I was put on the wrong planet. Do others feel the same?
I understand the reason to behave this way around others, but I generally try to avoid doing this. If people are making bad decisions, they might benefit from the suggestion that they have other options. Especially when many people in my experience tend to finance stuff because "everyone else is doing it". Those people need to hear your story!
Obviously you have to be cautious about how you do it. I don't judge people but I also try to avoid materialistic thinking. Many people I work with can tell I'm frugal, so they're not surprised when I say I'm willing to spend a lump sum on occasion, like buying a new car or taking a trip somewhere. But I don't show up with fancy clothes or a fancy car or anything like that. If it's obvious you're not spending a lot of money, you might inspire others to do similarly.
You might invite resentment, but that's coming from someone's insecurity, not your personal inadequacy, so you can treat it like a symptom, not a disease.
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Wrench, I agree that people need to be honest and maybe it will help others.
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Just overheard a couple of workmates bitching behind my back about what a cruel parent I am/was. I unwisely opened my mouth during a conversation about pocket money. I used to give my son $100 in cash, in small notes, every week. Every week he would hand back money to be banked for savings, as well as for rent, power, phone, food, medical, clothing, transportation etc etc. He'd be left with $10 or so at ten years old. Sometimes there were tearful arguments about paying things next week, because he wanted to buy something, but he learned he would have to save up. Imagine the cruelty of preparing your progeny for life in the actual world, and not some lovely bubble of "everyone is special" childhood!
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Just overheard a couple of workmates bitching behind my back about what a cruel parent I am/was. I unwisely opened my mouth during a conversation about pocket money. I used to give my son $100 in cash, in small notes, every week. Every week he would hand back money to be banked for savings, as well as for rent, power, phone, food, medical, clothing, transportation etc etc. He'd be left with $10 or so at ten years old. Sometimes there were tearful arguments about paying things next week, because he wanted to buy something, but he learned he would have to save up. Imagine the cruelty of preparing your progeny for life in the actual world, and not some lovely bubble of "everyone is special" childhood!
I think this is brilliant.
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Just overheard a couple of workmates bitching behind my back about what a cruel parent I am/was. I unwisely opened my mouth during a conversation about pocket money. I used to give my son $100 in cash, in small notes, every week. Every week he would hand back money to be banked for savings, as well as for rent, power, phone, food, medical, clothing, transportation etc etc. He'd be left with $10 or so at ten years old. Sometimes there were tearful arguments about paying things next week, because he wanted to buy something, but he learned he would have to save up. Imagine the cruelty of preparing your progeny for life in the actual world, and not some lovely bubble of "everyone is special" childhood!
I think this is brilliant.
+1
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Just overheard a couple of workmates bitching behind my back about what a cruel parent I am/was. I unwisely opened my mouth during a conversation about pocket money. I used to give my son $100 in cash, in small notes, every week. Every week he would hand back money to be banked for savings, as well as for rent, power, phone, food, medical, clothing, transportation etc etc. He'd be left with $10 or so at ten years old. Sometimes there were tearful arguments about paying things next week, because he wanted to buy something, but he learned he would have to save up. Imagine the cruelty of preparing your progeny for life in the actual world, and not some lovely bubble of "everyone is special" childhood!
I think this is brilliant.
Thanks, but apparently we are both mistaken. Actually it's burdening small children with adult concerns and not really any different to discussing things like bankruptcy and divorce in front of them. Not sure where the bankruptcy and divorce came into it, but if workplace dipshits think these things are related, who am I to question it???
I'm already jobhunting, so no real drama going forward.
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Well your job as a parent is to prepare them to be adults one day.
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Just overheard a couple of workmates bitching behind my back about what a cruel parent I am/was. I unwisely opened my mouth during a conversation about pocket money. I used to give my son $100 in cash, in small notes, every week. Every week he would hand back money to be banked for savings, as well as for rent, power, phone, food, medical, clothing, transportation etc etc. He'd be left with $10 or so at ten years old. Sometimes there were tearful arguments about paying things next week, because he wanted to buy something, but he learned he would have to save up. Imagine the cruelty of preparing your progeny for life in the actual world, and not some lovely bubble of "everyone is special" childhood!
I think this is brilliant.
Thanks, but apparently we are both mistaken. Actually it's burdening small children with adult concerns and not really any different to discussing things like bankruptcy and divorce in front of them. Not sure where the bankruptcy and divorce came into it, but if workplace dipshits think these things are related, who am I to question it???
I'm already jobhunting, so no real drama going forward.
All the kids I know who had parents get divorced figured out that their parents didn't live together anymore and didn't necessarily want to, either. Might as well talk to them about it, it might even be helpful if that's the intent (as opposed to attacking the ex). I wonder why that's so hard for them to understand.
I'm pretty sure that when parents go bankrupt their kids figure out something is wrong, it's not particularly hard to, after all. Jeesh.
You keep up the good work.
Job #1 is to raise children to be (a) good people worth knowing and (b) be able to take care of themselves. Everything else is a distant second place at best.
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Colleague spent all of last week complaining that her dad suggested she start paying her own phone bill.
Colleague is 27.
Colleague went shopping on her lunch break and came back with two new pairs of heels. "They were on sale!"
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Colleague spent all of last week complaining that her dad suggested she start paying her own phone bill.
Colleague is 27.
Colleague went shopping on her lunch break and came back with two new pairs of heels. "They were on sale!"
But wait, there's more!
Another colleague complimented her on the new shoes.
"Thanks! I got a bag and some earrings as well. Put it all on Afterpay!"
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Just finished a Town Hall on base and the question was raised "We have X housing units, and X assigned parking spaces. What do we do if we have two cars?" The garrison commander responded (in the most polite tone possible) "We don't have a parking problem, we have a walking problem." He then listed off over 100 additional parking spaces within a block of the apartment towers.
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All the kids I know who had parents get divorced figured out that their parents didn't live together anymore and didn't necessarily want to, either. Might as well talk to them about it, it might even be helpful if that's the intent (as opposed to attacking the ex). I wonder why that's so hard for them to understand.
I'm pretty sure that when parents go bankrupt their kids figure out something is wrong, it's not particularly hard to, after all. Jeesh.
You keep up the good work.
Job #1 is to raise children to be (a) good people worth knowing and (b) be able to take care of themselves. Everything else is a distant second place at best.
I tell my kids that my job is to make them "good grown-ups". I think the above method is brilliant as a way of teaching money management along with the scope of the money. My kids get allowance, but they don't have any real perspective on how much anything costs besides what they want to buy.
Case in point, my grandparents sent my kids $2 each in a Valentine's card. The 7 y/o then had the audacity to ask my parents why the Valentine from them didn't have any cash in it. This comes 2 weeks after my parents took my kids to Disneyland. (I wasn't doing so good on the "good grownups" front that day.)
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Colleague spent all of last week complaining that her dad suggested she start paying her own phone bill.
Colleague is 27.
Colleague went shopping on her lunch break and came back with two new pairs of heels. "They were on sale!"
I hate that phrase, "it was on sale!"
Usually it should say, "I got bamboozled!"
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If your kids find a deal to save $15/month on your home internet, how much of the savings do you pass on to them for this exercise?
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I recently left my job with nothing lined up. The not-quite-truth I told the company is that I was returning to school full time to pursue a change of career. The actual truth is more complicated, but the gist of it is that I was tired of working and wanted to take a break, had the savings to do so, wanted to focus on my art & growing my tiny business, and did want to go back to school and change careers... eventually, when I felt like it.
My coworkers were lovely, supportive people, but some of them were clearly very worried about me. One of them even asked, "but how will you survive??" I'm pretty sure she thought of the both of us as being in similar financial boats (student debt, car loan, paycheck to paycheck, tons of expenses, barely able to make minimum contributions to retirement), and I've never given her any reason to think otherwise. I smiled and told her that I had saved up some money and would take out student loans as needed to cover the rest (I won't be taking out any student loans) and her look of shock was.... I don't know. Not to get up on some snooty MMM high horse, but it just made me feel bad for her.
I understand the reason to behave this way around others, but I generally try to avoid doing this. If people are making bad decisions, they might benefit from the suggestion that they have other options. Especially when many people in my experience tend to finance stuff because "everyone else is doing it". Those people need to hear your story!
Obviously you have to be cautious about how you do it. I don't judge people but I also try to avoid materialistic thinking. Many people I work with can tell I'm frugal, so they're not surprised when I say I'm willing to spend a lump sum on occasion, like buying a new car or taking a trip somewhere. But I don't show up with fancy clothes or a fancy car or anything like that. If it's obvious you're not spending a lot of money, you might inspire others to do similarly.
You might invite resentment, but that's coming from someone's insecurity, not your personal inadequacy, so you can treat it like a symptom, not a disease.
If I were truly leaving for FIRE, I think I might have been more truthful, but since I do plan on returning to the workforce (and relying on references from my manager/coworkers) down the line, I didn't want to risk any weirdness or resentment cropping up if I could help it. Doesn't help that I'm pretty young to be jobless (late twenties) and that the coworker in question is several decades older and definitely better paid than me.
It's not just the 'finance everything, we're all in debt!' cultural mindset that's pervasive, but also the 'YOUR JOB IS YOUR LIFE' attitude that's everywhere. I think if I had told them that I just wanted to take a break from work (and could afford to), I would have also gotten a lot of "what are you, lazy?" "why don't you want to work for a living?" attitude. It's weird... we're all in the same boat getting excited for weekends and long holidays and vacations, talking about how tired we are and how we wish we could just be at the beach on a sunny day, but in a WORK WORK WORK culture, actually vocalizing that you just don't want to work is the same as announcing, "I'm an irresponsible lazy fuckup!"
And I am. :) But I'm not telling my coworkers that.
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I recently left my job with nothing lined up. The not-quite-truth I told the company is that I was returning to school full time to pursue a change of career. The actual truth is more complicated, but the gist of it is that I was tired of working and wanted to take a break, had the savings to do so, wanted to focus on my art & growing my tiny business, and did want to go back to school and change careers... eventually, when I felt like it.
My coworkers were lovely, supportive people, but some of them were clearly very worried about me. One of them even asked, "but how will you survive??" I'm pretty sure she thought of the both of us as being in similar financial boats (student debt, car loan, paycheck to paycheck, tons of expenses, barely able to make minimum contributions to retirement), and I've never given her any reason to think otherwise. I smiled and told her that I had saved up some money and would take out student loans as needed to cover the rest (I won't be taking out any student loans) and her look of shock was.... I don't know. Not to get up on some snooty MMM high horse, but it just made me feel bad for her.
I understand the reason to behave this way around others, but I generally try to avoid doing this. If people are making bad decisions, they might benefit from the suggestion that they have other options. Especially when many people in my experience tend to finance stuff because "everyone else is doing it". Those people need to hear your story!
Obviously you have to be cautious about how you do it. I don't judge people but I also try to avoid materialistic thinking. Many people I work with can tell I'm frugal, so they're not surprised when I say I'm willing to spend a lump sum on occasion, like buying a new car or taking a trip somewhere. But I don't show up with fancy clothes or a fancy car or anything like that. If it's obvious you're not spending a lot of money, you might inspire others to do similarly.
You might invite resentment, but that's coming from someone's insecurity, not your personal inadequacy, so you can treat it like a symptom, not a disease.
If I were truly leaving for FIRE, I think I might have been more truthful, but since I do plan on returning to the workforce (and relying on references from my manager/coworkers) down the line, I didn't want to risk any weirdness or resentment cropping up if I could help it. Doesn't help that I'm pretty young to be jobless (late twenties) and that the coworker in question is several decades older and definitely better paid than me.
It's not just the 'finance everything, we're all in debt!' cultural mindset that's pervasive, but also the 'YOUR JOB IS YOUR LIFE' attitude that's everywhere. I think if I had told them that I just wanted to take a break from work (and could afford to), I would have also gotten a lot of "what are you, lazy?" "why don't you want to work for a living?" attitude. It's weird... we're all in the same boat getting excited for weekends and long holidays and vacations, talking about how tired we are and how we wish we could just be at the beach on a sunny day, but in a WORK WORK WORK culture, actually vocalizing that you just don't want to work is the same as announcing, "I'm an irresponsible lazy fuckup!"
And I am. :) But I'm not telling my coworkers that.
It's a strong argument. Ideally your future hirer would appreciate that you value a work/life balance. And ideally your former employer won't hold your priorities against you, assuming you're competent. I can understand your choice here.
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If your kids find a deal to save $15/month on your home internet, how much of the savings do you pass on to them for this exercise?
We have delegated authority for selected categories to the kids (13 and 12 y.o.):
The oldest is a spender, and we are trying to motivate her to save. She gets a relatively large food budget each month, and it is her responsibility to plan menus and make shopping lists. If the rest of us spend outside the food budget, she gets to yell at us. Whatever is left over at the end of the month, she gets to keep. We urge her to save some of it, but don't force her.
The youngest is a lazy saver. She is motivated by having more free time, and sends all of her money to the savings account. Her job is to wash and put away all the clothes. We plan to increase her duties gradually to include handling the clothes budget, teaching her to mend clothes, etc. She gets paid a flat rate now, but if she starts caring about money I plan to give her bonuses for hanging clothes to dry instead of using the dryer. So far, having her responsible for washing clothes has resulted in fewer loads of laundry being washed, because the kids now use their clothes more before they declare them dirty.
TL/DR: if my kids found a way to save $15/month, they would get 100 % of it.
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Just finished a Town Hall on base and the question was raised "We have X housing units, and X assigned parking spaces. What do we do if we have two cars?" The garrison commander responded (in the most polite tone possible) "We don't have a parking problem, we have a walking problem." He then listed off over 100 additional parking spaces within a block of the apartment towers.
That is awesome, and deserves posting in the anti-antimustachian overheard at work (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work-the-anti-antimustachian-edition/?topicseen) thread.
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Just finished a Town Hall on base and the question was raised "We have X housing units, and X assigned parking spaces. What do we do if we have two cars?" The garrison commander responded (in the most polite tone possible) "We don't have a parking problem, we have a walking problem." He then listed off over 100 additional parking spaces within a block of the apartment towers.
Ha this is amazing.
Long ago and far away, we lived in family student housing, with one big parking lot, and it wasn't close to most of the apartments. Now, you couldn't really get another spot without paying for a campus parking permit. And that permit would be a very long way away. So we only had one car.
We learned quickly to get a cart to get groceries to the apartment from the car, and luckily for us no kids yet at that time. (Our apartment was on the 2nd and 3rd floors, and a walk-up).
Within a block though? That's really sad.
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Our company recently offered a stipend to compensate for additional costs due to the coronavirus. Basically, many employees have had to spend extra to purchase face masks or self-funded flights out of China. It was a very generous ~$2000-$6000 usd depending on the size of your family.
The very next day, one employee (who is always broke and could barely afford a $5 replacement face mask) messaged the employee group chat talking about getting a flight to Japan for a week-long vacation. They were quickly reminded that Japan would likely put them under two-week quarantine since they were flying from China, and that many countries are closing their borders to non-residents. While Japan is still semi-open, these border changes are implemented with little to no prior warning. But now I know why they always seem to be strapped for cash.
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It was a very generous ~$2000-$6000 usd depending on the size of your family.
That is certainly a very generous offer.
My employer offered to upgrade medical insurance policy for foreign workers at employer's expense. (costing ~ US$ 500).
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Case in point, my grandparents sent my kids $2 each in a Valentine's card. The 7 y/o then had the audacity to ask my parents why the Valentine from them didn't have any cash in it. This comes 2 weeks after my parents took my kids to Disneyland. (I wasn't doing so good on the "good grownups" front that day.)
Disclaimer: I have 7 years to go before I have a 7 year old, and it has been about 23 years since I was 7 myself, so my frame of reference here for how "with it" 7 year olds are is off...
But is this really "not doing so good on the 'good grownups' front"? From what I imagine a 7-year old's mindset is, great-grandparents and grandparents are sort of the same thing. If they get a card with cash in it, maybe the expect all cards from grandparents to have cash in it. Additionally, I don't think that a 7 year old will necessarily be able to recognize the huge cost of a family vacation.
I suppose it depends on the tone, and if there was a sense of entitlement with it, but on the surface it seems like a teaching opportunity rather than impertinence. After all, a 7 year old has 10-15 years before they're a grown up.
As an aside, now I'm smiling thinking about my Grandparents. Every time I came to visit, Grandpa wait til we were alone - could have been just passing in the hall - and slip me a bill or 4. Could have been $5, could have been $100, depended on what he had with him and how old I was and all that, but you could tell he always felt like a big shot doing it. And all of us grandkids thought he was too, because for us, he was. He told us all that the "walking around money" was over once we were 18, but I don't think that was true for any of us as he bent the rules every time, and if he didn't, Grandma did in cards... Halloween Cards, Easter Cards, Thanksgiving Cards, St. Patricks Day cards (we're not Irish, or even "Irish on St. Patricks Day")... I think I once got a Flag Day card from her with a tenner in it. Had no clue there was such thing as a Flag Day card.
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Oh my. The custodian guy was complaining to my office-mate about how tired he was. He hadn't slept at all because he couldn't get on some gaming platform until midnight and then he played until 4am. Then he catches the bus to get here by 6am.
Custodian: "I want to be a gamer but this job is interfering with that"
I know nothing about gaming (other than board game night with my pals), so I don't know whether he has a future in it or not, but I do know the same custodian believed the broom challenge but didn't want to try it himself because he missed the date. He also thinks that women can control and even hold off the flow of their periods, especially in the first day or two.
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Oh my. The custodian guy was complaining to my office-mate about how tired he was. He hadn't slept at all because he couldn't get on some gaming platform until midnight and then he played until 4am. Then he catches the bus to get here by 6am.
Custodian: "I want to be a gamer but this job is interfering with that"
I know nothing about gaming (other than board game night with my pals), so I don't know whether he has a future in it or not, but I do know the same custodian believed the broom challenge but didn't want to try it himself because he missed the date. He also thinks that women can control and even hold off the flow of their periods, especially in the first day or two.
I know a tiny bit about gaming, as a job. Let's just say the odds are very much against him.
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Is it like pro-athletics where companies sponsor players?
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Oh my. The custodian guy was complaining to my office-mate about how tired he was. He hadn't slept at all because he couldn't get on some gaming platform until midnight and then he played until 4am. Then he catches the bus to get here by 6am.
Custodian: "I want to be a gamer but this job is interfering with that"
I know nothing about gaming (other than board game night with my pals), so I don't know whether he has a future in it or not, but I do know the same custodian believed the broom challenge but didn't want to try it himself because he missed the date. He also thinks that women can control and even hold off the flow of their periods, especially in the first day or two.
A woman who is on the old-fashioned pill form of birth control (a pill a day keeps the pregnant away) can elect to bust out a new package of pills and continue with the hormone replacement instead of continuing with the usual cycle of placeholder pills.
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Is it like pro-athletics where companies sponsor players?
Yes
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Wrench, I agree that people need to be honest and maybe it will help others.
I absolutely hear what you say Wrench, and don't strongly disagree. But I have sometimes found to my cost that even when these things are pointed out in a friendly and diplomatic way (ie don't borrow money when you shouldn't) they can still cause enormous offence to worldly persons, almost like you insulted their wife or something. I find that now I tend to not offer a counter-opinion for this very specific topic, unless I am specifically asked, even though I am happy to wade in with contrarian opinions on other subjects.
As one one bearded hippy guy from the Middle East (who allegedly knew a thing or two) once said
"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast
ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them
under their feet, and turn again and rend you."
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A woman who is on the old-fashioned pill form of birth control (a pill a day keeps the pregnant away) can elect to bust out a new package of pills and continue with the hormone replacement instead of continuing with the usual cycle of placeholder pills.
The problem comes when your yearly Rx runs out after 9 months and your insurance company are assholes.
But I think the problem described is the men who believe that needing menstrual supplies is because of something akin to incontinence, and if we just tried harder we wouldn't need such things. See also, the guy who invented labia glue.
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A woman who is on the old-fashioned pill form of birth control (a pill a day keeps the pregnant away) can elect to bust out a new package of pills and continue with the hormone replacement instead of continuing with the usual cycle of placeholder pills.
The problem comes when your yearly Rx runs out after 9 months and your insurance company are assholes.
But I think the problem described is the men who believe that needing menstrual supplies is because of something akin to incontinence, and if we just tried harder we wouldn't need such things. See also, the guy who invented labia glue.
Exactly.
Plus, frankly, it doesn't always work that well. I tried to do that, but was never able to get my period to stop completely. Instead of having a full-blown normal period once a month, I would have unpredictable spotting at odd times instead. Eventually, after the frustration of never knowing when that would happen and having to wear panty liners as a result, it just wasn't worth it, and I went back to having regular periods.
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A woman who is on the old-fashioned pill form of birth control (a pill a day keeps the pregnant away) can elect to bust out a new package of pills and continue with the hormone replacement instead of continuing with the usual cycle of placeholder pills.
The problem comes when your yearly Rx runs out after 9 months and your insurance company are assholes.
But I think the problem described is the men who believe that needing menstrual supplies is because of something akin to incontinence, and if we just tried harder we wouldn't need such things. See also, the guy who invented labia glue.
Exactly.
Plus, frankly, it doesn't always work that well. I tried to do that, but was never able to get my period to stop completely. Instead of having a full-blown normal period once a month, I would have unpredictable spotting at odd times instead. Eventually, after the frustration of never knowing when that would happen and having to wear panty liners as a result, it just wasn't worth it, and I went back to having regular periods.
I was lucky that it always worked well for me and when my insurance company gave me crap about it my doctor told me to just let them pay more for Seasonique instead. Now I have the implant and unless I'm getting close to the three year mark, I rarely get any kind of breakthrough bleeding.
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A woman who is on the old-fashioned pill form of birth control (a pill a day keeps the pregnant away) can elect to bust out a new package of pills and continue with the hormone replacement instead of continuing with the usual cycle of placeholder pills.
The problem comes when your yearly Rx runs out after 9 months and your insurance company are assholes.
But I think the problem described is the men who believe that needing menstrual supplies is because of something akin to incontinence, and if we just tried harder we wouldn't need such things. See also, the guy who invented labia glue.
Exactly.
Plus, frankly, it doesn't always work that well. I tried to do that, but was never able to get my period to stop completely. Instead of having a full-blown normal period once a month, I would have unpredictable spotting at odd times instead. Eventually, after the frustration of never knowing when that would happen and having to wear panty liners as a result, it just wasn't worth it, and I went back to having regular periods.
I was lucky that it always worked well for me and when my insurance company gave me crap about it my doctor told me to just let them pay more for Seasonique instead. Now I have the implant and unless I'm getting close to the three year mark, I rarely get any kind of breakthrough bleeding.
So jealous. The last time I was on the pill, I bled and spotted for 6 weeks straight until I just gave up. There is no way I am trying an implant!
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I’ve got an implant now which seems to be great, except for the part where my face looks like a teenager again, and not in the youthful glow kind of way. Sigh.
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I had my vas deferens cut and cauterized.
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I chopped off my balls and died
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OMG this convo is going south.
@ysette9 I feel you. I've got gray hair, progressive glasses, wrinkles AND pimples, wtF?
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I chopped off my balls and died
You seem to have recovered nicely!
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See also, the guy who invented labia glue.
Wait, what?
After a quick Google it is what is says on the tin. Glue for the labia. To trap the blood internally until you go to the toilet, at which point your urine dissolves the "amino acid and oil based" preparation and everything fall into the toilet together. Seamless. Nothing could go wrong.
The first article I read was titled "A Chiropractor Says Labia Glue is Better Than Tampons".
Chiropractors: well known for their studies of menstruation.
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See also, the guy who invented labia glue.
Wait, what?
After a quick Google it is what is says on the tin. Glue for the labia. To trap the blood internally until you go to the toilet, at which point your urine dissolves the "amino acid and oil based" preparation and everything fall into the toilet together. Seamless. Nothing could go wrong.
The first article I read was titled "A Chiropractor Says Labia Glue is Better Than Tampons".
Chiropractors: well known for their studies of menstruation.
I was kinda wondering when someone would respond on that.
Did your article show the direct quote “Yes, I am a man and you as a woman should have come up with a better solution then diapers and plugs, but you didn’t. Reason being women are focused on and distracted by your period 25% of the time, making them far less productive [than] they could be.”
https://www.self.com/story/mensez-labia-lipstick-glue-periods
The Snopes article is particularly enlightening: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mensez/
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For anybody considering contraception, before you make any decisions on what's right for you, be sure to look at Annuale: https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=LuQIEy_x9w4
:D
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See also, the guy who invented labia glue.
Wait, what?
After a quick Google it is what is says on the tin. Glue for the labia. To trap the blood internally until you go to the toilet, at which point your urine dissolves the "amino acid and oil based" preparation and everything fall into the toilet together. Seamless. Nothing could go wrong.
The first article I read was titled "A Chiropractor Says Labia Glue is Better Than Tampons".
Chiropractors: well known for their studies of menstruation.
I was kinda wondering when someone would respond on that.
Did your article show the direct quote “Yes, I am a man and you as a woman should have come up with a better solution then diapers and plugs, but you didn’t. Reason being women are focused on and distracted by your period 25% of the time, making them far less productive [than] they could be.”
https://www.self.com/story/mensez-labia-lipstick-glue-periods
The Snopes article is particularly enlightening: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mensez/
It didn’t have that quote from what I recall but I didn’t read too closely. It was just too bizarre.
Reading the snopes article leaves me thinking that it’s satire. I refuse to believe that someone would say those things in seriousness.
I don’t myself have the equipment for menstruation but I wouldn’t expect it to be any more distracting on average than, say, feeling hungry. Yes it’s there but it’s not at the forefront of your mind. Clearly there will be exceptions to this do I’m happy to be corrected.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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If a woman tells me menstruation isn’t distracting I’d believe it. But speaking simply about expectation, well I’ve had bad nosebleeds and used tampons to stop them. I’m not saying my productivity was eliminated, but it was certainly uncomfortable and distracting. Now it’s ridiculous to say that women are made unproductive by periods but I’m also curious if it’s really distraction free as well. Maybe you just get used to it over time and for me it was always a rare event? (Yes I realize a nose is different from a vagina my question may seem silly but I haven’t got any first hand experience)
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Think of it like urinating. You aren't distracted at your desk because you know you'll have to pee at some point, it's just a task you'll take care of. However some people are very distracted and in pain because they are busting to go or because they have kidney stones or a bladder infection.
A period can be 100% not a distraction. It can also be associated with really painful symptoms for some people.
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If a woman tells me menstruation isn’t distracting I’d believe it. But speaking simply about expectation, well I’ve had bad nosebleeds and used tampons to stop them. I’m not saying my productivity was eliminated, but it was certainly uncomfortable and distracting. Now it’s ridiculous to say that women are made unproductive by periods but I’m also curious if it’s really distraction free as well. Maybe you just get used to it over time and for me it was always a rare event? (Yes I realize a nose is different from a vagina my question may seem silly but I haven’t got any first hand experience)
I don't find periods themselves remotely distracting. You can't feel a tampon once it's inserted, so nothing to distract. I know men aren't quite aware of the intricacies of vaginas, and that's ok, but actually there aren't touch receptors up inside the vagina. At least not when you're not turned on and I have yet to be turned on by a tampon...... Noses are very sensitive by comparison! Sometimes I have a little period pain, which for me translates to back pain - depends which way your uterus points as to where the pain feels like it's coming from. I take a pill, just like you would. Sometimes I get tired after a period - I don't eat a lot of meat so I just eat a steak. And I sometimes get frickin annoyed by stupid shit, but that's about midcycle, not actually when the red is running. It's not the same for all women. I think I may be quite lucky. I really think that other things in the workplace are far more distracting on a daily basis, like temperature.
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A woman who is on the old-fashioned pill form of birth control (a pill a day keeps the pregnant away) can elect to bust out a new package of pills and continue with the hormone replacement instead of continuing with the usual cycle of placeholder pills.
The problem comes when your yearly Rx runs out after 9 months and your insurance company are assholes.
But I think the problem described is the men who believe that needing menstrual supplies is because of something akin to incontinence, and if we just tried harder we wouldn't need such things. See also, the guy who invented labia glue.
Exactly.
Plus, frankly, it doesn't always work that well. I tried to do that, but was never able to get my period to stop completely. Instead of having a full-blown normal period once a month, I would have unpredictable spotting at odd times instead. Eventually, after the frustration of never knowing when that would happen and having to wear panty liners as a result, it just wasn't worth it, and I went back to having regular periods.
Insurance companies decide how many strips of the pill you get?? That's crazy. I just go to the pharmacy when I run out and as contraceptives are not covered by my health insurance if you're over 21, I pay €18 for 3 boxes of 3 strips.
Where I live most doctors actually recommend skipping periods when you're on the pill. There's no function, it's not a 'real' menstruation but a fake one. It's just feeling shitty for no medical reason at all. Most women don't get spotting from taking the pill continously, actually my doctor said I should call her if it happens more than once because it's a sign you may not be on the right pill. I'm sure some women will always have some spotting but it's not the norm.
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See also, the guy who invented labia glue.
Wait, what?
After a quick Google it is what is says on the tin. Glue for the labia. To trap the blood internally until you go to the toilet, at which point your urine dissolves the "amino acid and oil based" preparation and everything fall into the toilet together. Seamless. Nothing could go wrong.
The first article I read was titled "A Chiropractor Says Labia Glue is Better Than Tampons".
Chiropractors: well known for their studies of menstruation.
I was kinda wondering when someone would respond on that.
Did your article show the direct quote “Yes, I am a man and you as a woman should have come up with a better solution then diapers and plugs, but you didn’t. Reason being women are focused on and distracted by your period 25% of the time, making them far less productive [than] they could be.”
https://www.self.com/story/mensez-labia-lipstick-glue-periods
The Snopes article is particularly enlightening: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mensez/
It didn’t have that quote from what I recall but I didn’t read too closely. It was just too bizarre.
Reading the snopes article leaves me thinking that it’s satire. I refuse to believe that someone would say those things in seriousness.
I don’t myself have the equipment for menstruation but I wouldn’t expect it to be any more distracting on average than, say, feeling hungry. Yes it’s there but it’s not at the forefront of your mind. Clearly there will be exceptions to this do I’m happy to be corrected.
Oh, you live in England. I live in the USA and we have elected legislators say things that stupid or worse on a frequent basis. 98% of them are from one political party. (To be fair, the other main party also says stupid things but on different topics.)
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Ah yes, the classic "women can shut it down" line being one of them.
Our politicians are far perfect I'm sure but I'd like to think they would be lambasted for the sorts of stuff I've read from US politicians.
That said, I don't really follow politics so I'm sure people could find examples of British politicians saying incredulous things and not being held to account.
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See also, the guy who invented labia glue.
I was not sure if I should look that up.
And I think no, I should not have.
It is technically interesting though that this seems to work. There is real craszy stuff modern glue can do and that is Top 2 I think.
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I had my vas deferens cut and cauterized.
I am starting to talk up that idea. I know it will take time for that seed to sprout and blossom
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Well, that deteriorated quickly.
Sorry for setting off a foam explosion-- I seem to have triggered something. My goal was to point out that an admittedly eccentric co-worker's point of view did have a basis in fact.
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It wasn’t a deterioration, merely a meandering walk down a weedy path. :-)
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But I think the problem described is the men who believe that needing menstrual supplies is because of something akin to incontinence, and if we just tried harder we wouldn't need such things. See also, the guy who invented labia glue.
Hmm This would work for men, too. (The glue).
Men that lose productivity because they need to take at least 20 minutes a day to use the rest room. They could glue their anus shut and only "release" every three days, from the comfort of their homes and not while on the clock at work.
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But I think the problem described is the men who believe that needing menstrual supplies is because of something akin to incontinence, and if we just tried harder we wouldn't need such things. See also, the guy who invented labia glue.
Hmm This would work for men, too. (The glue).
Men that lose productivity because they need to take at least 20 minutes a day to use the rest room. They could glue their anus shut and only "release" every three days, from the comfort of their homes and not while on the clock at work.
The glue is deactivated by urine, through, so it might get a bit awkward
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But I think the problem described is the men who believe that needing menstrual supplies is because of something akin to incontinence, and if we just tried harder we wouldn't need such things. See also, the guy who invented labia glue.
Hmm This would work for men, too. (The glue).
Men that lose productivity because they need to take at least 20 minutes a day to use the rest room. They could glue their anus shut and only "release" every three days, from the comfort of their homes and not while on the clock at work.
The glue is deactivated by urine, through, so it might get a bit awkward
Would just require some creativity.
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But I think the problem described is the men who believe that needing menstrual supplies is because of something akin to incontinence, and if we just tried harder we wouldn't need such things. See also, the guy who invented labia glue.
Hmm This would work for men, too. (The glue).
Men that lose productivity because they need to take at least 20 minutes a day to use the rest room. They could glue their anus shut and only "release" every three days, from the comfort of their homes and not while on the clock at work.
Getting paid to poop is the #2 reason I don't quit. Right after, needing money.
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See also, the guy who invented labia glue.
I was not sure if I should look that up.
And I think no, I should not have.
It is technically interesting though that this seems to work. There is real craszy stuff modern glue can do and that is Top 2 I think.
Read the snopes article. It doesn't work b/c it is not really a thing yet. Just a patent and an idea. Not even a prototype and it has a male inventor who possibly has some gender issues...
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A woman who is on the old-fashioned pill form of birth control (a pill a day keeps the pregnant away) can elect to bust out a new package of pills and continue with the hormone replacement instead of continuing with the usual cycle of placeholder pills.
This isn't what the custodian was referring to. He specifically said he knows girls can "hold it in" when they feel it "coming on". Yikes!
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A woman who is on the old-fashioned pill form of birth control (a pill a day keeps the pregnant away) can elect to bust out a new package of pills and continue with the hormone replacement instead of continuing with the usual cycle of placeholder pills.
This isn't what the custodian was referring to. He specifically said he knows girls can "hold it in" when they feel it "coming on". Yikes!
God, I wish I could "hold it in" even for a short time. It would make things so much easier, especially when one is stuck somewhere and has the highly unpleasant sense that their current menstrual product may not be up to the task. Alas, that's not how any of this works. Too bad this chump (the menstrual glue guy) doesn't appear willing to understand basic biology.
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This conversation is great.
Do want to take this moment to remind every menstruating person here ...
menstrual cups are the most frugal, eco-friendly, comfortable, and least distracting form of period product.
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But I think the problem described is the men who believe that needing menstrual supplies is because of something akin to incontinence, and if we just tried harder we wouldn't need such things. See also, the guy who invented labia glue.
Hmm This would work for men, too. (The glue).
Men that lose productivity because they need to take at least 20 minutes a day to use the rest room. They could glue their anus shut and only "release" every three days, from the comfort of their homes and not while on the clock at work.
YES! Thank you so much for putting this in terms that men may understand!
Also, re the conversation about whether it's distracting or not, please be aware that every woman is different and their periods are different too. I was raised to believe that if you don't make a big deal out of it, then it isn't a big deal. So it never was. But then I went to college and met other women and some of them were physically ill and vomiting from the pain they had.
Yeah, if you have a light flow with no cramps, it's super easy to think others are hypochondriacs. But one time I had cramps and it was super-distracting.
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This conversation is great.
Do want to take this moment to remind every menstruating person here ...
menstrual cups are the most frugal, eco-friendly, comfortable, and least distracting form of period product.
Are we sure about eco friendly? I use soooo much more water with a cup that I am not thoroughly convinced on that front.
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compared to the production and trashing of the disposable products - I still think you come out ahead. I don't use much water with mine though. Quick rinse. Maybe a small wipe out if I'm in a less than ideal bathroom for the cup. I have bought two cups since 2011. The amount of tampons / pads I've avoided using is great!
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This conversation is great.
Do want to take this moment to remind every menstruating person here ...
menstrual cups are the most frugal, eco-friendly, comfortable, and least distracting form of period product.
They're a great idea. Unfortunately my tipped uterus/wonky cervix has caused three different brands of cups of different sizes and materials to fail. I wish I could use them because they'd be a nice complement to washable pads.
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This conversation is great.
Do want to take this moment to remind every menstruating person here ...
menstrual cups are the most frugal, eco-friendly, comfortable, and least distracting form of period product.
Except for the accidental blood bath in the public rest room stall. I found that very distracting.
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This conversation is great.
Do want to take this moment to remind every menstruating person here ...
menstrual cups are the most frugal, eco-friendly, comfortable, and least distracting form of period product.
Except for the accidental blood bath in the public rest room stall. I found that very distracting.
The actual changing is a lot more distracting, but happens a little less often and I don't have to carry around as much stuff.
I assume you fumbled? I have done that, but luckily not in public.
Some say it is great for camping. I cannot begin to imagine how that works.
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This conversation is great.
Do want to take this moment to remind every menstruating person here ...
menstrual cups are the most frugal, eco-friendly, comfortable, and least distracting form of period product.
Except for the accidental blood bath in the public rest room stall. I found that very distracting.
The actual changing is a lot more distracting, but happens a little less often and I don't have to carry around as much stuff.
I assume you fumbled? I have done that, but luckily not in public.
Some say it is great for camping. I cannot begin to imagine how that works.
I got a hysterectomy a couple of years before I heard about the menstrual cup. I low key wish I could have tried it (though I would not trade no more periods for anything! Woo hoo!)...
But I will say, the idea of just trusting that cup for the first few times strikes terror into my heart. Talk about distracting!
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I was able to get one for free (promotion) got supposedly the right size. But it would leak. I don't know what I wasn't doing right, but it was more difficult than I thought. To get it right. Maybe it worked right 70% of the time, but having accidents sucks. Since I had to wear a pad anyways, stopped using it. Since I'm on the pill my periods are relatively minimal at this point.
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This conversation is great.
Do want to take this moment to remind every menstruating person here ...
menstrual cups are the most frugal, eco-friendly, comfortable, and least distracting form of period product.
Except for the accidental blood bath in the public rest room stall. I found that very distracting.
The actual changing is a lot more distracting, but happens a little less often and I don't have to carry around as much stuff.
I assume you fumbled? I have done that, but luckily not in public.
Some say it is great for camping. I cannot begin to imagine how that works.
It's not that bad. I took mine on a two week trip to Tanzania so plunged deep into the camping/poor sanitation/limited water life with it after a few months of use. I took my water bottle into the stall, plus wet paper towels if they were available, or wet wipes if they weren't. Sanitize hands, remove, dump, rinse with water bottle, dry with TP, reinsert, wipe hands with paper towel/wet wipe. I can wear my cup all day except for on the very heaviest day of my cycle versus changing tampons every 4-6 hours, so I think it's worth the minor hassle.
As for water usage making it less sustainable...I guess it depends where you live. Here in the Midwest where composting & recycling sucks and water is abundant, I think it's clearly the better choice. Maybe if there are compostable tampons (I've never researched this) that makes more sense in a water constrained area. But it's definitely the most frugal option, I haven't spend a dime after my $24 purchase a year ago now--would have gone through 3-4 boxes each of tampons & liners by now.
ETA: I guess backpacking would be different but I imagine you'd just dig a hole to empty into. Still seems better than packing out used disposable supplies to me.
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This conversation is great.
Do want to take this moment to remind every menstruating person here ...
menstrual cups are the most frugal, eco-friendly, comfortable, and least distracting form of period product.
'Frugal'... not for me. I've actually done the math (very MMM, right?).
[Number of periods until expected menopause (based on mother's age of menopause)] x [number of tampons at €x + number of pads at €x per period] = €x.
[Number of menstrual cups needed until expected menopause (because they have a 10-year lifespan, apparently)] = €x.
The traditional method of pads and tampons was way more frugal for me.
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This conversation is great.
Do want to take this moment to remind every menstruating person here ...
menstrual cups are the most frugal, eco-friendly, comfortable, and least distracting form of period product.
'Frugal'... not for me. I've actually done the math (very MMM, right?).
[Number of periods until expected menopause (based on mother's age of menopause)] x [number of tampons at €x + number of pads at €x per period] = €x.
[Number of menstrual cups needed until expected menopause (because they have a 10-year lifespan, apparently)] = €x.
The traditional method of pads and tampons was way more frugal for me.
The number of pads and tampons increase dramatically in the last few years, however!
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This conversation is great.
Do want to take this moment to remind every menstruating person here ...
menstrual cups are the most frugal, eco-friendly, comfortable, and least distracting form of period product.
'Frugal'... not for me. I've actually done the math (very MMM, right?).
[Number of periods until expected menopause (based on mother's age of menopause)] x [number of tampons at €x + number of pads at €x per period] = €x.
[Number of menstrual cups needed until expected menopause (because they have a 10-year lifespan, apparently)] = €x.
The traditional method of pads and tampons was way more frugal for me.
Mine paid for itself in months....I know mine is heavy, but this is mind blowing.
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The number of pads and tampons increase dramatically in the last few years, however!
Out of curiosity, could you potentially do the perma-birth control method there where periods are skipped entirely, or would that cause issues at that point?
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The number of pads and tampons increase dramatically in the last few years, however!
Out of curiosity, could you potentially do the perma-birth control method there where periods are skipped entirely, or would that cause issues at that point?
I know that my doctor offered me an tubal/ablation last time that, in theory, would stop my periods permanently. I currently respond well to the implant, but if that ever changes I'll consider the surgical option.
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Tubal ligation won't stop you from getting a period, it would just stop eggs from getting through your tubes to your uterus. You'd need to remove either the ovaries and/or the uterus to permanently end periods prior to menopause.
Many people see periods disappear with IUD and other long term birth control methods, but the effect varies wildly and is unpredictable.
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Tubal ligation won't stop you from getting a period, it would just stop eggs from getting through your tubes to your uterus. You'd need to remove either the ovaries and/or the uterus to permanently end periods prior to menopause.
Many people see periods disappear with IUD and other long term birth control methods, but the effect varies wildly and is unpredictable.
Ablation does stop menstruation in most. It is paired with tubal ligation in order to prevent a dangerous pregnancy.
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Gotcha. I read that as either a tubal ligation OR an ablation.
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Lady parts... gross.
My co-worker has been complaining about his financial state lately. I told him he spends too much on his car. He said he spends $800 a month to keep this fancy Civic on the road. I think he pays a similar amount in rent.
I drive the shittiest car out of everybody so people can see where my savings come from. There are several people who earn a lot less than me that drive fancier cars so I hope they aren't too surprised if they feel more broke than me.
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Lady parts... gross.
My co-worker has been complaining about his financial state lately. I told him he spends too much on his car. He said he spends $800 a month to keep this fancy Civic on the road. I think he pays a similar amount in rent.
I drive the shittiest car out of everybody so people can see where my savings come from. There are several people who earn a lot less than me that drive fancier cars so I hope they aren't too surprised if they feel more broke than me.
OMG thank you SOOOO much for changing the subject!
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Lady parts... gross.
My co-worker has been complaining about his financial state lately. I told him he spends too much on his car. He said he spends $800 a month to keep this fancy Civic on the road. I think he pays a similar amount in rent.
I drive the shittiest car out of everybody so people can see where my savings come from. There are several people who earn a lot less than me that drive fancier cars so I hope they aren't too surprised if they feel more broke than me.
OMG thank you SOOOO much for changing the subject!
You're well within your rights to change the subject back to Overheard at Work anti-mustachianism, but can we do it without insults? Thanks.
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Lady parts... gross.
My co-worker has been complaining about his financial state lately. I told him he spends too much on his car. He said he spends $800 a month to keep this fancy Civic on the road. I think he pays a similar amount in rent.
I drive the shittiest car out of everybody so people can see where my savings come from. There are several people who earn a lot less than me that drive fancier cars so I hope they aren't too surprised if they feel more broke than me.
OMG thank you SOOOO much for changing the subject!
You're well within your rights to change the subject back to Overheard at Work anti-mustachianism, but can we do it without insults? Thanks.
You're right, I apologize--men can have uteruses too.
https://mobile.twitter.com/PPIndKentucky/status/969384341636861952
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Lady parts... gross.
My co-worker has been complaining about his financial state lately. I told him he spends too much on his car. He said he spends $800 a month to keep this fancy Civic on the road. I think he pays a similar amount in rent.
I drive the shittiest car out of everybody so people can see where my savings come from. There are several people who earn a lot less than me that drive fancier cars so I hope they aren't too surprised if they feel more broke than me.
OMG thank you SOOOO much for changing the subject!
You're well within your rights to change the subject back to Overheard at Work anti-mustachianism, but can we do it without insults? Thanks.
You're right, I apologize--men can have uteruses too.
https://mobile.twitter.com/PPIndKentucky/status/969384341636861952
I really hope that post wasn’t sarcasm. But it’s hard to see how it wasn’t.
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It was a joke, people. I like lady parts.
Another coworker of mine just paid off his car. I was trying to suggest he should invest his cash flow now. I think it sunk in but he's eager to spend a bit. He has a house so I can't blame him for wanting to renovate.
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It was a joke, people. I like lady parts.
Another coworker of mine just paid off his car. I was trying to suggest he should invest his cash flow now. I think it sunk in but he's eager to spend a bit. He has a house so I can't blame him for wanting to renovate.
Dude.
Can you... just not?
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It was a joke, people. I like lady parts.
Another coworker of mine just paid off his car. I was trying to suggest he should invest his cash flow now. I think it sunk in but he's eager to spend a bit. He has a house so I can't blame him for wanting to renovate.
Dude.
Can you... just not?
What exactly is the outrage here? I don't understand.
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It was a joke, people. I like lady parts.
Another coworker of mine just paid off his car. I was trying to suggest he should invest his cash flow now. I think it sunk in but he's eager to spend a bit. He has a house so I can't blame him for wanting to renovate.
Dude.
Can you... just not?
What exactly is the outrage here? I don't understand.
Well.
I think I will let a bunch of the other women comment, as well as me.
But in the meantime, please contemplate that it’s possible you don’t recognize that what you said is objectively gross, even if you don’t see it quite yet.
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It was a joke, people. I like lady parts.
Another coworker of mine just paid off his car. I was trying to suggest he should invest his cash flow now. I think it sunk in but he's eager to spend a bit. He has a house so I can't blame him for wanting to renovate.
Dude.
Can you... just not?
What exactly is the outrage here? I don't understand.
Well.
I think I will let a bunch of the other women comment, as well as me.
But in the meantime, please contemplate that it’s possible you don’t recognize that what you said is objectively gross, even if you don’t see it quite yet.
Do we know Wrenchturner's gender? A lot of people on the forums thought I was a man, for quite a long time.
And at least the men on here are sparing us from their prostate problems. I guess because those don't get major until after the normal age of retirement? Seriously, in New Zealand I am seeing so many ads re prostate problems, it is getting tiresome.
Sorry, no work stories here, the joys of retirement and all that.
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It was a joke, people. I like lady parts.
Another coworker of mine just paid off his car. I was trying to suggest he should invest his cash flow now. I think it sunk in but he's eager to spend a bit. He has a house so I can't blame him for wanting to renovate.
Dude.
Can you... just not?
What exactly is the outrage here? I don't understand.
Well.
I think I will let a bunch of the other women comment, as well as me.
But in the meantime, please contemplate that it’s possible you don’t recognize that what you said is objectively gross, even if you don’t see it quite yet.
Do we know Wrenchturner's gender? A lot of people on the forums thought I was a man, for quite a long time.
And at least the men on here are sparing us from their prostate problems. I guess because those don't get major until after the normal age of retirement? Seriously, in New Zealand I am seeing so many ads re prostate problems, it is getting tiresome.
Sorry, no work stories here, the joys of retirement and all that.
Yeah.
The idea that one gender or the other would need to not comment on their issues because it would offend the delicate sensibilities of the other gender...
Just seems a bit gross.
And sorry, but “I like lady bits” ... ?
Like, sexualizing “bits” somehow negates the BS?
Just... ugh. Women were talking about a work issue. That is within the subject of this thread.
Maybe when we are talking about legitimate issues involving women, the only two reactions do not have to be “gross” and “I like lady bits”?
-
It was a joke, people. I like lady parts.
Another coworker of mine just paid off his car. I was trying to suggest he should invest his cash flow now. I think it sunk in but he's eager to spend a bit. He has a house so I can't blame him for wanting to renovate.
Dude.
Can you... just not?
What exactly is the outrage here? I don't understand.
Well.
I think I will let a bunch of the other women comment, as well as me.
But in the meantime, please contemplate that it’s possible you don’t recognize that what you said is objectively gross, even if you don’t see it quite yet.
I'm not offended by the use of the term lady parts. In fact, I find it quite inoffensive. Much better than vajayjay
-
It was a joke, people. I like lady parts.
Another coworker of mine just paid off his car. I was trying to suggest he should invest his cash flow now. I think it sunk in but he's eager to spend a bit. He has a house so I can't blame him for wanting to renovate.
Dude.
Can you... just not?
What exactly is the outrage here? I don't understand.
Well.
I think I will let a bunch of the other women comment, as well as me.
But in the meantime, please contemplate that it’s possible you don’t recognize that what you said is objectively gross, even if you don’t see it quite yet.
I'm not offended by the use of the term lady parts. In fact, I find it quite inoffensive. Much better than vajayjay
Awesome.
So, do you think there is something wrong with talking about periods as they pertain to work?
And doing it in a way that does not depend on whether men like lady parts?
-
It was a joke, people. I like lady parts.
Another coworker of mine just paid off his car. I was trying to suggest he should invest his cash flow now. I think it sunk in but he's eager to spend a bit. He has a house so I can't blame him for wanting to renovate.
Dude.
Can you... just not?
What exactly is the outrage here? I don't understand.
Well.
I think I will let a bunch of the other women comment, as well as me.
But in the meantime, please contemplate that it’s possible you don’t recognize that what you said is objectively gross, even if you don’t see it quite yet.
I'm not offended by the use of the term lady parts. In fact, I find it quite inoffensive. Much better than vajayjay
Awesome.
So, do you think there is something wrong with talking about periods as they pertain to work?
And doing it in a way that does not depend on whether men like lady parts?
Have I missed something here? I've read the thread. I'm not offended by lady parts, by talking about lady parts, or by any function of said lady parts. I'm not offended by men parts either.
-
It was a joke, people. I like lady parts.
Another coworker of mine just paid off his car. I was trying to suggest he should invest his cash flow now. I think it sunk in but he's eager to spend a bit. He has a house so I can't blame him for wanting to renovate.
Dude.
Can you... just not?
What exactly is the outrage here? I don't understand.
Well.
I think I will let a bunch of the other women comment, as well as me.
But in the meantime, please contemplate that it’s possible you don’t recognize that what you said is objectively gross, even if you don’t see it quite yet.
I'm not offended by the use of the term lady parts. In fact, I find it quite inoffensive. Much better than vajayjay
Awesome.
So, do you think there is something wrong with talking about periods as they pertain to work?
And doing it in a way that does not depend on whether men like lady parts?
Have I missed something here? I've read the thread. I'm not offended by lady parts, by talking about lady parts, or by any function of said lady parts. I'm not offended by men parts either.
Okay.
And I am a woman who is irritated as hell by having men say that talking about periods in this thread is icky and that we need to change the subject. And that “liking lady parts” somehow matters. So we are 1 to 1.
Let’s see how this shakes out.
-
It was a joke, people. I like lady parts.
Another coworker of mine just paid off his car. I was trying to suggest he should invest his cash flow now. I think it sunk in but he's eager to spend a bit. He has a house so I can't blame him for wanting to renovate.
Dude.
Can you... just not?
What exactly is the outrage here? I don't understand.
Well.
I think I will let a bunch of the other women comment, as well as me.
But in the meantime, please contemplate that it’s possible you don’t recognize that what you said is objectively gross, even if you don’t see it quite yet.
I'm not offended by the use of the term lady parts. In fact, I find it quite inoffensive. Much better than vajayjay
Awesome.
So, do you think there is something wrong with talking about periods as they pertain to work?
And doing it in a way that does not depend on whether men like lady parts?
Have I missed something here? I've read the thread. I'm not offended by lady parts, by talking about lady parts, or by any function of said lady parts. I'm not offended by men parts either.
Okay.
And I am a woman who is irritated as hell by having men say that talking about periods in this thread is icky and that we need to change the subject. So we are 1 to 1.
Let’s see how this shakes out.
I read the lady parts comment as a light hearted silly way of diving into another subject. The subject change doesn't bother me at all since it was actually going back to the original intention of the thread..... I don't think it was intended as genuine disgust or a subject change for any reason other than that.
-
It was a joke, people. I like lady parts.
Another coworker of mine just paid off his car. I was trying to suggest he should invest his cash flow now. I think it sunk in but he's eager to spend a bit. He has a house so I can't blame him for wanting to renovate.
Dude.
Can you... just not?
What exactly is the outrage here? I don't understand.
Well.
I think I will let a bunch of the other women comment, as well as me.
But in the meantime, please contemplate that it’s possible you don’t recognize that what you said is objectively gross, even if you don’t see it quite yet.
I'm not offended by the use of the term lady parts. In fact, I find it quite inoffensive. Much better than vajayjay
Awesome.
So, do you think there is something wrong with talking about periods as they pertain to work?
And doing it in a way that does not depend on whether men like lady parts?
Have I missed something here? I've read the thread. I'm not offended by lady parts, by talking about lady parts, or by any function of said lady parts. I'm not offended by men parts either.
Okay.
And I am a woman who is irritated as hell by having men say that talking about periods in this thread is icky and that we need to change the subject. So we are 1 to 1.
Let’s see how this shakes out.
I read the lady parts comment as a light hearted silly way of diving into another subject. The subject change doesn't bother me at all since it was actually going back to the original intention of the thread..... I don't think it was intended as genuine disgust or a subject change for any reason other than that.
well, at least one other person didn’t enjoy it.
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work-2/msg2568934/#msg2568934
-
It was a joke, people. I like lady parts.
Another coworker of mine just paid off his car. I was trying to suggest he should invest his cash flow now. I think it sunk in but he's eager to spend a bit. He has a house so I can't blame him for wanting to renovate.
Dude.
Can you... just not?
What exactly is the outrage here? I don't understand.
Well.
I think I will let a bunch of the other women comment, as well as me.
But in the meantime, please contemplate that it’s possible you don’t recognize that what you said is objectively gross, even if you don’t see it quite yet.
I'm not offended by the use of the term lady parts. In fact, I find it quite inoffensive. Much better than vajayjay
Awesome.
So, do you think there is something wrong with talking about periods as they pertain to work?
And doing it in a way that does not depend on whether men like lady parts?
Have I missed something here? I've read the thread. I'm not offended by lady parts, by talking about lady parts, or by any function of said lady parts. I'm not offended by men parts either.
Okay.
And I am a woman who is irritated as hell by having men say that talking about periods in this thread is icky and that we need to change the subject. So we are 1 to 1.
Let’s see how this shakes out.
I read the lady parts comment as a light hearted silly way of diving into another subject. The subject change doesn't bother me at all since it was actually going back to the original intention of the thread..... I don't think it was intended as genuine disgust or a subject change for any reason other than that.
well, at least one other person didn’t enjoy it.
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work-2/msg2568934/#msg2568934
Yeah ok. They're not sacrosanct, you know. If someone said 'ew lady feet, gross', would you be offended? I dunno about yours, but my lady parts aren't gold plated. And I don't give a crap whether someone else is or isn't offended by what I have in my knickers, frankly.
-
It was a joke, people. I like lady parts.
Another coworker of mine just paid off his car. I was trying to suggest he should invest his cash flow now. I think it sunk in but he's eager to spend a bit. He has a house so I can't blame him for wanting to renovate.
Dude.
Can you... just not?
What exactly is the outrage here? I don't understand.
Well.
I think I will let a bunch of the other women comment, as well as me.
But in the meantime, please contemplate that it’s possible you don’t recognize that what you said is objectively gross, even if you don’t see it quite yet.
I'm not offended by the use of the term lady parts. In fact, I find it quite inoffensive. Much better than vajayjay
Awesome.
So, do you think there is something wrong with talking about periods as they pertain to work?
And doing it in a way that does not depend on whether men like lady parts?
Have I missed something here? I've read the thread. I'm not offended by lady parts, by talking about lady parts, or by any function of said lady parts. I'm not offended by men parts either.
Okay.
And I am a woman who is irritated as hell by having men say that talking about periods in this thread is icky and that we need to change the subject. So we are 1 to 1.
Let’s see how this shakes out.
I read the lady parts comment as a light hearted silly way of diving into another subject. The subject change doesn't bother me at all since it was actually going back to the original intention of the thread..... I don't think it was intended as genuine disgust or a subject change for any reason other than that.
well, at least one other person didn’t enjoy it.
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work-2/msg2568934/#msg2568934
Yeah ok. They're not sacrosanct, you know. If someone said 'ew lady feet, gross', would you be offended? I dunno about yours, but my lady parts aren't gold plated. And I don't give a crap whether someone else is or isn't offended by what I have in my knickers, frankly.
Cool. You and I differ.
I think periods are an issue for working women. And as such, I think talking about it here is fine.
Even if men are squicked out by it.
-
It was a joke, people. I like lady parts.
Another coworker of mine just paid off his car. I was trying to suggest he should invest his cash flow now. I think it sunk in but he's eager to spend a bit. He has a house so I can't blame him for wanting to renovate.
Dude.
Can you... just not?
What exactly is the outrage here? I don't understand.
Well.
I think I will let a bunch of the other women comment, as well as me.
But in the meantime, please contemplate that it’s possible you don’t recognize that what you said is objectively gross, even if you don’t see it quite yet.
I'm not offended by the use of the term lady parts. In fact, I find it quite inoffensive. Much better than vajayjay
Awesome.
So, do you think there is something wrong with talking about periods as they pertain to work?
And doing it in a way that does not depend on whether men like lady parts?
Have I missed something here? I've read the thread. I'm not offended by lady parts, by talking about lady parts, or by any function of said lady parts. I'm not offended by men parts either.
Okay.
And I am a woman who is irritated as hell by having men say that talking about periods in this thread is icky and that we need to change the subject. So we are 1 to 1.
Let’s see how this shakes out.
I read the lady parts comment as a light hearted silly way of diving into another subject. The subject change doesn't bother me at all since it was actually going back to the original intention of the thread..... I don't think it was intended as genuine disgust or a subject change for any reason other than that.
well, at least one other person didn’t enjoy it.
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work-2/msg2568934/#msg2568934
Yeah ok. They're not sacrosanct, you know. If someone said 'ew lady feet, gross', would you be offended? I dunno about yours, but my lady parts aren't gold plated. And I don't give a crap whether someone else is or isn't offended by what I have in my knickers, frankly.
Cool. You and I differ.
I think periods are an issue for working women. And as such, I think talking about it here is fine.
Even if men are squicked out by it.
We're not so different. I think it's an issue for working women also, and I also don't give a crap if men find that uncomfortable. Not sure that one did, though.....
-
I read the lady parts comment as a light hearted silly way of diving into another subject.
This was pretty much my intention. I just thought it was weird to come into this thread and see a conversation about hysterectomies and cauterized vas deferenses.
Sorry if I offended anyone.
-
It’s clearly an attempt at juvenile humor. If I said “ew kissing gross” I don’t think you nasty kissers would complain that much. Seriously people keep those lips to yourselves
-
It’s clearly an attempt at juvenile humor. If I said “ew kissing gross” I don’t think you nasty kissers would complain that much. Seriously people keep those lips to yourselves
Ew you said lips!
-
It’s clearly an attempt at juvenile humor. If I said “ew kissing gross” I don’t think you nasty kissers would complain that much. Seriously people keep those lips to yourselves
Ew you said lips!
I am surprised nobody posted a dick pic so far (and no, that was no invitation).
I had a wonderful laugh at work hearing from someone from another working place. It's quite deep into programming, which I spare you, just saying the main topic was that making something digital instead of paper is often a lot more work than laypeople think. Especially when the people that have to use the program are still thinking in paper.
And there was one report spicing that up even more: A helpdesk call: My program is broken. It does not work.
Reason? They moved an icon 2cm to the right!
But even after showing that the person still said it was broken.
What should you do with those types of people? Just switch their computer off? sigh
-
It’s clearly an attempt at juvenile humor. If I said “ew kissing gross” I don’t think you nasty kissers would complain that much. Seriously people keep those lips to yourselves
Given that women have only recently been able to discuss menstruation openly in public, and that we are still often chastised for doing so... not so obviously a joke.
So there ya go.
-
It was a joke, people. I like lady parts.
Another coworker of mine just paid off his car. I was trying to suggest he should invest his cash flow now. I think it sunk in but he's eager to spend a bit. He has a house so I can't blame him for wanting to renovate.
Dude.
Can you... just not?
What exactly is the outrage here? I don't understand.
Some people go through life looking to be offended.
-
It was a joke, people. I like lady parts.
Another coworker of mine just paid off his car. I was trying to suggest he should invest his cash flow now. I think it sunk in but he's eager to spend a bit. He has a house so I can't blame him for wanting to renovate.
Dude.
Can you... just not?
What exactly is the outrage here? I don't understand.
Some people go through life looking to be offended.
Hey, DadJokes. Fancy seeing you here.
-
Another coworker of mine just paid off his car. I was trying to suggest he should invest his cash flow now. I think it sunk in but he's eager to spend a bit.
After reading this thread this week, "cash flow" has a whole new meaning to me now.
-
After reading this thread this week, "cash flow" has a whole new meaning to me now.
People buy used underwear and feet pictures, so it's possible...
-
Hey - I like lady fingers...
And how does a person spend $800 a month of a Civic?
-
Hey - I like lady fingers...
And how does a person spend $800 a month of a Civic?
mmm, lady fingers
But I think that the $800 a month Civic nearly got lost as the most important question around here.
I mean, even when I had less savings, my definition of when to get a new car is when the mechanic starts getting more a month than the bank would with a loan.
-
Hey - I like lady fingers...
And how does a person spend $800 a month of a Civic?
Civic Type R starts at $42K in Canada - can easily turn this into a $60K car by adding the floor mats and a few other accessories + sales tax.
Way back in this thread (or maybe was in the original pt 1 thread) I mentioned a former coworker who traded a 2 years old Jeep in for a Charger. Then a year or two later traded in for a Civic Type R. All financed - underwater on each loan when he traded. I suspect his Type R was costing him well over $1000 (CDN) per month. He would also regularly complain about his finances and that he might need a second job because he wasn't earning enough money.
-
Hey - I like lady fingers...
And how does a person spend $800 a month of a Civic?
Civic Type R starts at $42K in Canada - can easily turn this into a $60K car by adding the floor mats and a few other accessories + sales tax.
Way back in this thread (or maybe was in the original pt 1 thread) I mentioned a former coworker who traded a 2 years old Jeep in for a Charger. Then a year or two later traded in for a Civic Type R. All financed - underwater on each loan when he traded. I suspect his Type R was costing him well over $1000 (CDN) per month. He would also regularly complain about his finances and that he might need a second job because he wasn't earning enough money.
It's a turbo civic. $600 for the car, $200 for insurance.
I think he spends at least $200 a month on cannabis too.
-
Hey - I like lady fingers...
And how does a person spend $800 a month of a Civic?
Civic Type R starts at $42K in Canada - can easily turn this into a $60K car by adding the floor mats and a few other accessories + sales tax.
Way back in this thread (or maybe was in the original pt 1 thread) I mentioned a former coworker who traded a 2 years old Jeep in for a Charger. Then a year or two later traded in for a Civic Type R. All financed - underwater on each loan when he traded. I suspect his Type R was costing him well over $1000 (CDN) per month. He would also regularly complain about his finances and that he might need a second job because he wasn't earning enough money.
It's a turbo civic. $600 for the car, $200 for insurance.
I think he spends at least $200 a month on cannabis too.
I loved my basic civic (2010) - but like if you are willing to spend $800 on a car, why not get a better car? IDK this seems crazy.
Meanwhile, my coworker wants to get a car in NYC. The parking is $500 a month. So add the car, gas, and insurance. I'm not even saving that much money with my menstrual cup over 10 years ;)
-
Hey - I like lady fingers...
And how does a person spend $800 a month of a Civic?
Civic Type R starts at $42K in Canada - can easily turn this into a $60K car by adding the floor mats and a few other accessories + sales tax.
Way back in this thread (or maybe was in the original pt 1 thread) I mentioned a former coworker who traded a 2 years old Jeep in for a Charger. Then a year or two later traded in for a Civic Type R. All financed - underwater on each loan when he traded. I suspect his Type R was costing him well over $1000 (CDN) per month. He would also regularly complain about his finances and that he might need a second job because he wasn't earning enough money.
It's a turbo civic. $600 for the car, $200 for insurance.
I think he spends at least $200 a month on cannabis too.
I loved my basic civic (2010) - but like if you are willing to spend $800 on a car, why not get a better car? IDK this seems crazy.
Meanwhile, my coworker wants to get a car in NYC. The parking is $500 a month. So add the car, gas, and insurance. I'm not even saving that much money with my menstrual cup over 10 years ;)
No idea why he bought a fancy Civic. I don't think there's a lot of thought going into this decision.
Owning a car in NYC seems crazy too. But living in NYC would be very expensive regardless I'm sure.
-
Last civic I bought cost six weeks of his payments ($1200 for the thing). A week later, Katrina hit and the seller called asking if I'd sell it back for twice that, but I drove it another 200k miles instead.
-
Hey - I like lady fingers...
And how does a person spend $800 a month of a Civic?
Civic Type R starts at $42K in Canada - can easily turn this into a $60K car by adding the floor mats and a few other accessories + sales tax.
Way back in this thread (or maybe was in the original pt 1 thread) I mentioned a former coworker who traded a 2 years old Jeep in for a Charger. Then a year or two later traded in for a Civic Type R. All financed - underwater on each loan when he traded. I suspect his Type R was costing him well over $1000 (CDN) per month. He would also regularly complain about his finances and that he might need a second job because he wasn't earning enough money.
It's a turbo civic. $600 for the car, $200 for insurance.
I think he spends at least $200 a month on cannabis too.
I loved my basic civic (2010) - but like if you are willing to spend $800 on a car, why not get a better car? IDK this seems crazy.
Meanwhile, my coworker wants to get a car in NYC. The parking is $500 a month. So add the car, gas, and insurance. I'm not even saving that much money with my menstrual cup over 10 years ;)
No idea why he bought a fancy Civic. I don't think there's a lot of thought going into this decision.
Owning a car in NYC seems crazy too. But living in NYC would be very expensive regardless I'm sure.
Was at the local Honda dealership on Monday getting 1st 6 month service on wife's Honda Insight (we buy new Honda/Toyota and drive till they die, her 2006 Civic's engine block cracked in mid 2019).
Asked the sales guys where's the Type R... response was "bought by rich daddies for their kids". I thought it was a joke. A little later, I asked another sales rep, he said that every single Type R they've sold has been bought by Bank of Mum/Dad for Prince/Princess. I asked how many had been leased to working Joes, he said none. Their $5000 markup does not deter the sales, but turns away the potential lessors.
-
It’s clearly an attempt at juvenile humor. If I said “ew kissing gross” I don’t think you nasty kissers would complain that much. Seriously people keep those lips to yourselves
Given that women have only recently been able to discuss menstruation openly in public, and that we are still often chastised for doing so... not so obviously a joke.
So there ya go.
Waiiit. You thought it wasn’t a joke and that wrenchturner is legitimately grossed out by women’s anatomy?
-
It’s clearly an attempt at juvenile humor. If I said “ew kissing gross” I don’t think you nasty kissers would complain that much. Seriously people keep those lips to yourselves
Given that women have only recently been able to discuss menstruation openly in public, and that we are still often chastised for doing so... not so obviously a joke.
So there ya go.
Waiiit. You thought it wasn’t a joke and that wrenchturner is legitimately grossed out by women’s anatomy?
Let's not rehash this. People can disagree. Kris was offended, Wrenchturner apologised, that's all we need to know.
-
It’s clearly an attempt at juvenile humor. If I said “ew kissing gross” I don’t think you nasty kissers would complain that much. Seriously people keep those lips to yourselves
Given that women have only recently been able to discuss menstruation openly in public, and that we are still often chastised for doing so... not so obviously a joke.
So there ya go.
Waiiit. You thought it wasn’t a joke and that wrenchturner is legitimately grossed out by women’s anatomy?
Let's not rehash this. People can disagree. Kris was offended, Wrenchturner apologised, that's all we need to know.
I thought kris was offended by a poor joke, not by a supposedly earnest disapproval of “lady parts”
We don’t strictly “need to know” any of this. I want to know more. I am offended by your cold dismissal of my curiosity
-
It’s clearly an attempt at juvenile humor. If I said “ew kissing gross” I don’t think you nasty kissers would complain that much. Seriously people keep those lips to yourselves
Given that women have only recently been able to discuss menstruation openly in public, and that we are still often chastised for doing so... not so obviously a joke.
So there ya go.
Waiiit. You thought it wasn’t a joke and that wrenchturner is legitimately grossed out by women’s anatomy?
Let's not rehash this. People can disagree. Kris was offended, Wrenchturner apologised, that's all we need to know.
I thought kris was offended by a poor joke, not by a supposedly earnest disapproval of “lady parts”
We don’t strictly “need to know” any of this. I want to know more. I am offended by your cold dismissal of my curiosity
I just want to point out that it wasn’t just wrenchturner’s remark, but more specifically, solon’s fairly earnest thanking him for changing the subject from periods.
And also, that merula was also bothered by this. Not just me.
-
It’s clearly an attempt at juvenile humor. If I said “ew kissing gross” I don’t think you nasty kissers would complain that much. Seriously people keep those lips to yourselves
Given that women have only recently been able to discuss menstruation openly in public, and that we are still often chastised for doing so... not so obviously a joke.
So there ya go.
Waiiit. You thought it wasn’t a joke and that wrenchturner is legitimately grossed out by women’s anatomy?
Let's not rehash this. People can disagree. Kris was offended, Wrenchturner apologised, that's all we need to know.
I thought kris was offended by a poor joke, not by a supposedly earnest disapproval of “lady parts”
We don’t strictly “need to know” any of this. I want to know more. I am offended by your cold dismissal of my curiosity
I just want to point out that it wasn’t just wrenchturner’s remark, but more specifically, solon’s fairly earnest thanking him for changing the subject from periods.
And also, that merula was also bothered by this. Not just me.
You're allowed to be offended. You don't have to explain yourself. We all have different perspectives, and yours is as valid as mine. But I think Dragoncar is now kind of pointlessly stirring things. I understand your perspective. I hope you understand mine. Wrenchturner understands he unwittingly offended someone. Kind of end of conversation?
-
It’s clearly an attempt at juvenile humor. If I said “ew kissing gross” I don’t think you nasty kissers would complain that much. Seriously people keep those lips to yourselves
Given that women have only recently been able to discuss menstruation openly in public, and that we are still often chastised for doing so... not so obviously a joke.
So there ya go.
Waiiit. You thought it wasn’t a joke and that wrenchturner is legitimately grossed out by women’s anatomy?
Let's not rehash this. People can disagree. Kris was offended, Wrenchturner apologised, that's all we need to know.
I thought kris was offended by a poor joke, not by a supposedly earnest disapproval of “lady parts”
We don’t strictly “need to know” any of this. I want to know more. I am offended by your cold dismissal of my curiosity
I just want to point out that it wasn’t just wrenchturner’s remark, but more specifically, solon’s fairly earnest thanking him for changing the subject from periods.
And also, that merula was also bothered by this. Not just me.
You're allowed to be offended. You don't have to explain yourself. We all have different perspectives, and yours is as valid as mine. But I think Dragoncar is now kind of pointlessly stirring things. I understand your perspective. I hope you understand mine. Wrenchturner understands he unwittingly offended someone. Kind of end of conversation?
Good talk. I guess some perspectives are more equal than others.
-
It’s clearly an attempt at juvenile humor. If I said “ew kissing gross” I don’t think you nasty kissers would complain that much. Seriously people keep those lips to yourselves
Given that women have only recently been able to discuss menstruation openly in public, and that we are still often chastised for doing so... not so obviously a joke.
So there ya go.
Waiiit. You thought it wasn’t a joke and that wrenchturner is legitimately grossed out by women’s anatomy?
Let's not rehash this. People can disagree. Kris was offended, Wrenchturner apologised, that's all we need to know.
I thought kris was offended by a poor joke, not by a supposedly earnest disapproval of “lady parts”
We don’t strictly “need to know” any of this. I want to know more. I am offended by your cold dismissal of my curiosity
Oh, come on. Now we are getting into real stupidity waters here!
Open a new thread "mentrual cups, lady parts and can you like them?" if you wish, but please stop it now.
-
I loved my basic civic (2010) - but like if you are willing to spend $800 on a car, why not get a better car? IDK this seems crazy.
In my part of the country that's a comfortable house payment.
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I loved my basic civic (2010) - but like if you are willing to spend $800 on a car, why not get a better car? IDK this seems crazy.
In my part of the country that's a comfortable house payment.
You can sleep in a car but you can't drive a house!
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You're right, I apologize--men can have uteruses too.
https://mobile.twitter.com/PPIndKentucky/status/969384341636861952
Including some of the men on this forum.
I don't have many stories from my current job. My coworkers bring their own lunches and snacks to work, and I haven't heard anyone airing their financial dirty laundry. I do have one of the "worst" cars in the parking lot, though. And my coworkers seemed really confused by my asking if the farmers market they were talking about was the cheap kind or the fancy organic kind - but maybe cheap farmer's markets just don't exist around here.
Neighbors, though - the guy I rented a room from for a few weeks when I first moved here had two nearly identical BMWs in his garage, in addition to the civic that he drove on week days. In my new neighborhood there's a guy with Supreme stickers on his BMW's windshield - I'm not sure how much those cost, but the brand is famous for overpriced branded products.
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Car addiction is insidious.
We (team of three) have an informal meeting to start each week, half social and half sharing what we're working on. We were talking about how great the weather had been last Saturday and I said I had gotten a real treat. After the geese dive-bombed my car while out running errands with DH, we went through an automatic car wash. I said it had been years since I did that and it was so nice.
Co-worker said she goes through the car wash multiple times EACH WEEK. She is absolutely not in a financial position for this based on oodles of other things she's shared.
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[
Neighbors, though - the guy I rented a room from for a few weeks when I first moved here had two nearly identical BMWs in his garage, in addition to the civic that he drove on week days. In my new neighborhood there's a guy with Supreme stickers on his BMW's windshield - I'm not sure how much those cost, but the brand is famous for overpriced branded products.
I had to go google what Supreme stickers would be.....is that the skateboard company that sells expensive clothing?
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The number of pads and tampons increase dramatically in the last few years, however!
Out of curiosity, could you potentially do the perma-birth control method there where periods are skipped entirely, or would that cause issues at that point?
I am not sure where the latest research is at, but generally, the older you are, after 35, the less recommended hormonal birth control is. This is lessened if you don't smoke.
Looking back, helath and issues dealing with periods perimenopause combined with a high stress job is 80% of the reason that I FIRED. Truly. I did not realize it until about a year after FIRE. If a bit of discussion in random locations helps someone to make more money now to FIRE more easily, I say go for it.
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That's the one.
They're a skateboard shop that grew into a big "streetwear" fashion brand, best known for producing expensive and weird "collab" products. Like they'd partner with Willson and make a Supreme volleyball that says Supreme on it and costs $80. I'm pretty sure that's not a real product, but it's the sort of thing they do.[
Neighbors, though - the guy I rented a room from for a few weeks when I first moved here had two nearly identical BMWs in his garage, in addition to the civic that he drove on week days. In my new neighborhood there's a guy with Supreme stickers on his BMW's windshield - I'm not sure how much those cost, but the brand is famous for overpriced branded products.
I had to go google what Supreme stickers would be.....is that the skateboard company that sells expensive clothing?
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The number of pads and tampons increase dramatically in the last few years, however!
Out of curiosity, could you potentially do the perma-birth control method there where periods are skipped entirely, or would that cause issues at that point?
I know that my doctor offered me an tubal/ablation last time that, in theory, would stop my periods permanently. I currently respond well to the implant, but if that ever changes I'll consider the surgical option.
Sound fancy-pants. I had tubal years ago, no ablation, and still have all the periods.
Getting medical stuff permanently addressed can also be a hedge against the temporary treatment no longer being covered by insurance, or being banned in the future.
(Or the peace of mind of knowing it's done with, or for this specific case, never having to deal with IUD replacement again - it's definitely not comfortable and some people have chronic pain in that area.)
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Are they orange or black?
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I loved my basic civic (2010) - but like if you are willing to spend $800 on a car, why not get a better car? IDK this seems crazy.
In my part of the country that's a comfortable house payment.
You can sleep in a car but you can't drive a house!
Oh yeah??!?!?! ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3iC9CDlaV8
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The number of pads and tampons increase dramatically in the last few years, however!
Out of curiosity, could you potentially do the perma-birth control method there where periods are skipped entirely, or would that cause issues at that point?
I know that my doctor offered me an tubal/ablation last time that, in theory, would stop my periods permanently. I currently respond well to the implant, but if that ever changes I'll consider the surgical option.
Sound fancy-pants. I had tubal years ago, no ablation, and still have all the periods.
Getting medical stuff permanently addressed can also be a hedge against the temporary treatment no longer being covered by insurance, or being banned in the future.
(Or the peace of mind of knowing it's done with, or for this specific case, never having to deal with IUD replacement again - it's definitely not comfortable and some people have chronic pain in that area.)
In theory it is but most doctors refuse to perform it on women with children under 40 and childless women regardless of age so it's not really a practical option for most.
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The number of pads and tampons increase dramatically in the last few years, however!
Out of curiosity, could you potentially do the perma-birth control method there where periods are skipped entirely, or would that cause issues at that point?
I know that my doctor offered me an tubal/ablation last time that, in theory, would stop my periods permanently. I currently respond well to the implant, but if that ever changes I'll consider the surgical option.
Sound fancy-pants. I had tubal years ago, no ablation, and still have all the periods.
Getting medical stuff permanently addressed can also be a hedge against the temporary treatment no longer being covered by insurance, or being banned in the future.
(Or the peace of mind of knowing it's done with, or for this specific case, never having to deal with IUD replacement again - it's definitely not comfortable and some people have chronic pain in that area.)
In theory it is but most doctors refuse to perform it on women with children under 40 and childless women regardless of age so it's not really a practical option for most.
Depends on your region? I got it done when I was 31. A friend was refused (childless) at age 26.
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The number of pads and tampons increase dramatically in the last few years, however!
Out of curiosity, could you potentially do the perma-birth control method there where periods are skipped entirely, or would that cause issues at that point?
I know that my doctor offered me an tubal/ablation last time that, in theory, would stop my periods permanently. I currently respond well to the implant, but if that ever changes I'll consider the surgical option.
Sound fancy-pants. I had tubal years ago, no ablation, and still have all the periods.
Getting medical stuff permanently addressed can also be a hedge against the temporary treatment no longer being covered by insurance, or being banned in the future.
(Or the peace of mind of knowing it's done with, or for this specific case, never having to deal with IUD replacement again - it's definitely not comfortable and some people have chronic pain in that area.)
In theory it is but most doctors refuse to perform it on women with children under 40 and childless women regardless of age so it's not really a practical option for most.
Depends on your region? I got it done when I was 31. A friend was refused (childless) at age 26.
It depends on your doctor.
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The number of pads and tampons increase dramatically in the last few years, however!
Out of curiosity, could you potentially do the perma-birth control method there where periods are skipped entirely, or would that cause issues at that point?
I know that my doctor offered me an tubal/ablation last time that, in theory, would stop my periods permanently. I currently respond well to the implant, but if that ever changes I'll consider the surgical option.
Sound fancy-pants. I had tubal years ago, no ablation, and still have all the periods.
Getting medical stuff permanently addressed can also be a hedge against the temporary treatment no longer being covered by insurance, or being banned in the future.
(Or the peace of mind of knowing it's done with, or for this specific case, never having to deal with IUD replacement again - it's definitely not comfortable and some people have chronic pain in that area.)
In theory it is but most doctors refuse to perform it on women with children under 40 and childless women regardless of age so it's not really a practical option for most.
Depends on your region? I got it done when I was 31. A friend was refused (childless) at age 26.
It depends on your doctor.
It probably depends on location and the individual doctors, but there are official best practice guidelines and in my country I know they state that best practice generally means no sterilisation under 30 at all, for childless women and/or single women and a lot of doctors are even more careful than those guidelines.
Of course those are only guidelines and doctors can make their own choices but when you don't follow guidelines you could be liable for medical malpractice in the future. I have several female friends who have tried to get sterilized but none have succeeded yet. So they instead sent their husbands to the doctor and they got a vasectomy really easily.
One of my friends in particular has 3 kids and has a medical condition where a future pregnancy will likely be life threatening. She wasn't able to get a sterilisation based on the argument that maybe years from now new treatment would be invented that would allow her to get pregnant again. They don't want more kids even if a medical breakthrough would happen....
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The number of pads and tampons increase dramatically in the last few years, however!
Out of curiosity, could you potentially do the perma-birth control method there where periods are skipped entirely, or would that cause issues at that point?
I know that my doctor offered me an tubal/ablation last time that, in theory, would stop my periods permanently. I currently respond well to the implant, but if that ever changes I'll consider the surgical option.
Sound fancy-pants. I had tubal years ago, no ablation, and still have all the periods.
Getting medical stuff permanently addressed can also be a hedge against the temporary treatment no longer being covered by insurance, or being banned in the future.
(Or the peace of mind of knowing it's done with, or for this specific case, never having to deal with IUD replacement again - it's definitely not comfortable and some people have chronic pain in that area.)
In theory it is but most doctors refuse to perform it on women with children under 40 and childless women regardless of age so it's not really a practical option for most.
Depends on your region? I got it done when I was 31. A friend was refused (childless) at age 26.
It depends on your doctor.
It probably depends on location and the individual doctors, but there are official best practice guidelines and in my country I know they state that best practice generally means no sterilisation under 30 at all, for childless women and/or single women and a lot of doctors are even more careful than those guidelines.
Of course those are only guidelines and doctors can make their own choices but when you don't follow guidelines you could be liable for medical malpractice in the future. I have several female friends who have tried to get sterilized but none have succeeded yet. So they instead sent their husbands to the doctor and they got a vasectomy really easily.
One of my friends in particular has 3 kids and has a medical condition where a future pregnancy will likely be life threatening. She wasn't able to get a sterilisation based on the argument that maybe years from now new treatment would be invented that would allow her to get pregnant again. They don't want more kids even if a medical breakthrough would happen....
I wouldn’t be so enraged about stuff like this if they said “best practices” means no sterilization for anyone under 30 no matter the gender.
But of course, that would be crazy...
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The number of pads and tampons increase dramatically in the last few years, however!
Out of curiosity, could you potentially do the perma-birth control method there where periods are skipped entirely, or would that cause issues at that point?
I know that my doctor offered me an tubal/ablation last time that, in theory, would stop my periods permanently. I currently respond well to the implant, but if that ever changes I'll consider the surgical option.
Sound fancy-pants. I had tubal years ago, no ablation, and still have all the periods.
Getting medical stuff permanently addressed can also be a hedge against the temporary treatment no longer being covered by insurance, or being banned in the future.
(Or the peace of mind of knowing it's done with, or for this specific case, never having to deal with IUD replacement again - it's definitely not comfortable and some people have chronic pain in that area.)
In theory it is but most doctors refuse to perform it on women with children under 40 and childless women regardless of age so it's not really a practical option for most.
Depends on your region? I got it done when I was 31. A friend was refused (childless) at age 26.
It depends on your doctor.
It probably depends on location and the individual doctors, but there are official best practice guidelines and in my country I know they state that best practice generally means no sterilisation under 30 at all, for childless women and/or single women and a lot of doctors are even more careful than those guidelines.
Of course those are only guidelines and doctors can make their own choices but when you don't follow guidelines you could be liable for medical malpractice in the future. I have several female friends who have tried to get sterilized but none have succeeded yet. So they instead sent their husbands to the doctor and they got a vasectomy really easily.
One of my friends in particular has 3 kids and has a medical condition where a future pregnancy will likely be life threatening. She wasn't able to get a sterilisation based on the argument that maybe years from now new treatment would be invented that would allow her to get pregnant again. They don't want more kids even if a medical breakthrough would happen....
I wouldn’t be so enraged about stuff like this said “best practices” means no sterilization for anyone under 30 no matter the gender.
But of course, that would be crazy...
You can imagine how my friend's story ends.
Because she wasn't able to get a sterilisation, she sent her husband to the doctor. The doctor asked how many kids he had, was he sure about the procedure, was he confident he didn't just want more kids from this relationship but no more kids at all? Yes? Ok, what about next week? He was out of the door with an appointment in 10 minutes.
Now, those are useful questions, sterilisation is serious business, but I also get so pissed off that women are treated like they don't have brains. I'm sure some people regret sterilisation (male and female) just like some people regret having kids (make and female) and it makes sense for a doctor to ask questions, especially when someone is young, but that goes for both genders. I have never heard a man say he was refused a sterilisation.
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The number of pads and tampons increase dramatically in the last few years, however!
Out of curiosity, could you potentially do the perma-birth control method there where periods are skipped entirely, or would that cause issues at that point?
I know that my doctor offered me an tubal/ablation last time that, in theory, would stop my periods permanently. I currently respond well to the implant, but if that ever changes I'll consider the surgical option.
Sound fancy-pants. I had tubal years ago, no ablation, and still have all the periods.
Getting medical stuff permanently addressed can also be a hedge against the temporary treatment no longer being covered by insurance, or being banned in the future.
(Or the peace of mind of knowing it's done with, or for this specific case, never having to deal with IUD replacement again - it's definitely not comfortable and some people have chronic pain in that area.)
In theory it is but most doctors refuse to perform it on women with children under 40 and childless women regardless of age so it's not really a practical option for most.
Depends on your region? I got it done when I was 31. A friend was refused (childless) at age 26.
It depends on your doctor.
It probably depends on location and the individual doctors, but there are official best practice guidelines and in my country I know they state that best practice generally means no sterilisation under 30 at all, for childless women and/or single women and a lot of doctors are even more careful than those guidelines.
Of course those are only guidelines and doctors can make their own choices but when you don't follow guidelines you could be liable for medical malpractice in the future. I have several female friends who have tried to get sterilized but none have succeeded yet. So they instead sent their husbands to the doctor and they got a vasectomy really easily.
One of my friends in particular has 3 kids and has a medical condition where a future pregnancy will likely be life threatening. She wasn't able to get a sterilisation based on the argument that maybe years from now new treatment would be invented that would allow her to get pregnant again. They don't want more kids even if a medical breakthrough would happen....
I wouldn’t be so enraged about stuff like this said “best practices” means no sterilization for anyone under 30 no matter the gender.
But of course, that would be crazy...
You can imagine how my friend's story ends.
Because she wasn't able to get a sterilisation, she sent her husband to the doctor. The doctor asked how many kids he had, was he sure about the procedure, was he confident he didn't just want more kids from this relationship but no more kids at all? Yes? Ok, what about next week? He was out of the door with an appointment in 10 minutes.
Now, those are useful questions, sterilisation is serious business, but I also get so pissed off that women are treated like they don't have brains. I'm sure some people regret sterilisation (male and female) just like some people regret having kids (make and female) and it makes sense for a doctor to ask questions, especially when someone is young, but that goes for both genders. I have never heard a man say he was refused a sterilisation.
You're neglecting the fact that female steralisation is major abdominal surgery. Male steralisation is day surgery, you don't even have to have a general anesthetic. Doctors are rightly opposed to people signing up for major surgery with all of the risks associated unless there is a very good reason - and not wanting children is not a good reason until other avenues of accomplishing this have been exhausted. Bear in mind that the abdomen is the most risky place for surgery - there are multiple structures, sources of infection inside as well as out, and stuff in there MOVES on the operating table. Think all the risks of any surgery plus extreme infection risk, adhesions, long recovery etc.
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^^^^ Only if it's done as a hysterectomy. Snipping the Fallopian tubes is done via laparoscopy.
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^^^^ Only if it's done as a hysterectomy. Snipping the Fallopian tubes is done via laparoscopy.
Still a general, still an overnight stay, and still an invasive surgical procedure in the abdomen. You get a small infection from this you are in a VERY different place from a man who gets a small infection from a vasectomy. People treat this stuff like it's no drama because we generally don't kill people in surgery anymore. However, that doesn't reflect the recovery and issues in recovery at all. Abdominal surgery is a big deal.
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No overnight stay. In at 7am, out at 2pm. I came in by myself, but I think I had to have someone pick me up.
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^^^^ Only if it's done as a hysterectomy. Snipping the Fallopian tubes is done via laparoscopy.
Still a general, still an overnight stay, and still an invasive surgical procedure in the abdomen. You get a small infection from this you are in a VERY different place from a man who gets a small infection from a vasectomy. People treat this stuff like it's no drama because we generally don't kill people in surgery anymore. However, that doesn't reflect the recovery and issues in recovery at all. Abdominal surgery is a big deal.
I've been told it's possible to combine this with a C-section, so that would require no extra abdominal surgery in many cases.
Of course surgery is always something to be careful about, but I don't think sterilization of the male partner is something that can ever replace sterilization of the female herself - if the woman is the one who doesn't want or medically shouldn't go through pregnancy she should have the option for permanent anticonception, not the male she is currently with.
I just checked the official guidelines in my country and they state that there is no randomized study available that compares the safety of female sterilization to other methods of birth control, that sterilization is generally safe and the general anesthetic is the biggest risk factor.
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^^^^ Only if it's done as a hysterectomy. Snipping the Fallopian tubes is done via laparoscopy.
Still a general, still an overnight stay, and still an invasive surgical procedure in the abdomen. You get a small infection from this you are in a VERY different place from a man who gets a small infection from a vasectomy. People treat this stuff like it's no drama because we generally don't kill people in surgery anymore. However, that doesn't reflect the recovery and issues in recovery at all. Abdominal surgery is a big deal.
I've been told it's possible to combine this with a C-section, so that would require no extra abdominal surgery in many cases.
Of course surgery is always something to be careful about, but I don't think sterilization of the male partner is something that can ever replace sterilization of the female herself - if the woman is the one who doesn't want or medically shouldn't go through pregnancy she should have the option for permanent anticonception, not the male she is currently with.
I just checked the official guidelines in my country and they state that there is no randomized study available that compares the safety of female sterilization to other methods of birth control, that sterilization is generally safe and the general anesthetic is the biggest risk factor.
A C section is MASSIVE surgery. You could combine anything with it. Hell, lop a leg off and it's not that much more serious! It wasn't that long ago that C sections killed 100% of patients. Even today, although obviously the survival rate is nearly 100%, the post op is not a lot of fun for many people. Infections are common, scarring and strictures are common, internal adhesions that cause ongoing pain are very common, hormonal issues can be common depending on the surgery. None of this stuff is walk in/walk out, regardless of anecdotal cases.
Surgical sterilisation IS generally safe. The surgical issues are rare. The post op recovery issues are not. Which do you think hospitals use to let you know the safety of their procedures?
Chemical sterilisation of women is an option that men don't have. That's the point you seem to be willingly missing. You can have an subdermal implant, you can take a pill, half a dozen other options. I'm not even including shitty options like IUDs. Any of those is ALWAYS preferable to surgery. Of course the option to get pregnant or not should be in the hands of women. No one is disagreeing with that. But there better be a damn good reason why you would subject a patient to that risk when there are other very good options available. And if surgery comes down to being the only realistic option, let's see if the male partner will take one for the team first. Women don't have to have surgery to manage birth control. So why the hell would you? (Not including particular medical issues that really do make surgery the best option)
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I loved my basic civic (2010) - but like if you are willing to spend $800 on a car, why not get a better car? IDK this seems crazy.
In my part of the country that's a comfortable house payment.
You can sleep in a car but you can't drive a house!
Oh yeah??!?!?! ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3iC9CDlaV8
Lol that's awesome. I appreciate that he's also building a lightweight racing shed as well.
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^^^^ Only if it's done as a hysterectomy. Snipping the Fallopian tubes is done via laparoscopy.
Still a general, still an overnight stay, and still an invasive surgical procedure in the abdomen. You get a small infection from this you are in a VERY different place from a man who gets a small infection from a vasectomy. People treat this stuff like it's no drama because we generally don't kill people in surgery anymore. However, that doesn't reflect the recovery and issues in recovery at all. Abdominal surgery is a big deal.
And yet 'abdominal surgery is a big deal' is NOT what you hear from doctors (at least it's not what I heard, and it sounds like my experience hasn't been unique). Instead it's 'But maybe you'll want a baby later' or 'But what if you marry someone who wants kids?'. Because obviously as a woman I can't be trusted to know my own mind.
If the issue is the extent of the surgery, fine. Make the discussion about that. Stop the bullshit reasoning that means that doctors don't even take the request from women seriously.
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^^^^ Only if it's done as a hysterectomy. Snipping the Fallopian tubes is done via laparoscopy.
Still a general, still an overnight stay, and still an invasive surgical procedure in the abdomen. You get a small infection from this you are in a VERY different place from a man who gets a small infection from a vasectomy. People treat this stuff like it's no drama because we generally don't kill people in surgery anymore. However, that doesn't reflect the recovery and issues in recovery at all. Abdominal surgery is a big deal.
And yet 'abdominal surgery is a big deal' is NOT what you hear from doctors (at least it's not what I heard, and it sounds like my experience hasn't been unique). Instead it's 'But maybe you'll want a baby later' or 'But what if you marry someone who wants kids?'. Because obviously as a woman I can't be trusted to know my own mind.
If the issue is the extent of the surgery, fine. Make the discussion about that. Stop the bullshit reasoning that means that doctors don't even take the request from women seriously.
These days, they tend to do tubal implants, which do not require general anesthesia and is an out patient procedure. This is what I was asking about in my late 30s when I got a lot of hemming and hawing.
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^^^^ Only if it's done as a hysterectomy. Snipping the Fallopian tubes is done via laparoscopy.
Still a general, still an overnight stay, and still an invasive surgical procedure in the abdomen. You get a small infection from this you are in a VERY different place from a man who gets a small infection from a vasectomy. People treat this stuff like it's no drama because we generally don't kill people in surgery anymore. However, that doesn't reflect the recovery and issues in recovery at all. Abdominal surgery is a big deal.
And yet 'abdominal surgery is a big deal' is NOT what you hear from doctors (at least it's not what I heard, and it sounds like my experience hasn't been unique). Instead it's 'But maybe you'll want a baby later' or 'But what if you marry someone who wants kids?'. Because obviously as a woman I can't be trusted to know my own mind.
If the issue is the extent of the surgery, fine. Make the discussion about that. Stop the bullshit reasoning that means that doctors don't even take the request from women seriously.
These days, they tend to do tubal implants, which do not require general anesthesia and is an out patient procedure. This is what I was asking about in my late 30s when I got a lot of hemming and hawing.
I had a laparoscopic hysterectomy in my early forties. The conversation with the doctor only moved forward toward him being open to scheduling the procedure after I told him my husband had already had a vasectomy.
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^^^^ Only if it's done as a hysterectomy. Snipping the Fallopian tubes is done via laparoscopy.
Still a general, still an overnight stay, and still an invasive surgical procedure in the abdomen. You get a small infection from this you are in a VERY different place from a man who gets a small infection from a vasectomy. People treat this stuff like it's no drama because we generally don't kill people in surgery anymore. However, that doesn't reflect the recovery and issues in recovery at all. Abdominal surgery is a big deal.
And yet 'abdominal surgery is a big deal' is NOT what you hear from doctors (at least it's not what I heard, and it sounds like my experience hasn't been unique). Instead it's 'But maybe you'll want a baby later' or 'But what if you marry someone who wants kids?'. Because obviously as a woman I can't be trusted to know my own mind.
If the issue is the extent of the surgery, fine. Make the discussion about that. Stop the bullshit reasoning that means that doctors don't even take the request from women seriously.
These days, they tend to do tubal implants, which do not require general anesthesia and is an out patient procedure. This is what I was asking about in my late 30s when I got a lot of hemming and hawing.
Even when there's a solid medical reason to do the hysterectemy, doctors still often refuse because babies. My coworker is 35 with severe PCOS, and has asked multiple times to have her ovaries removed, as it currently causes her a lot of pain. The cysts are large enough that it's unlikely she'd even be able to get pregnant if she wanted to, and still the doctors insist "what if you change your mind?" She's an adult, she's not in a relationship, she doesn't want a relationship, she doesn't ever want children, and probably couldn't have them if she wanted them, and still they won't do it.
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We are in California. When I went to a doctor for a consult on a tubal ligation, I asked if my husband needed to sign something before I got it done. The doctor laughed and was like "Hell no. What's your husband got to do with it?" I thought that was pleasantly liberated.
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^^^^ Only if it's done as a hysterectomy. Snipping the Fallopian tubes is done via laparoscopy.
Still a general, still an overnight stay, and still an invasive surgical procedure in the abdomen. You get a small infection from this you are in a VERY different place from a man who gets a small infection from a vasectomy. People treat this stuff like it's no drama because we generally don't kill people in surgery anymore. However, that doesn't reflect the recovery and issues in recovery at all. Abdominal surgery is a big deal.
And yet 'abdominal surgery is a big deal' is NOT what you hear from doctors (at least it's not what I heard, and it sounds like my experience hasn't been unique). Instead it's 'But maybe you'll want a baby later' or 'But what if you marry someone who wants kids?'. Because obviously as a woman I can't be trusted to know my own mind.
If the issue is the extent of the surgery, fine. Make the discussion about that. Stop the bullshit reasoning that means that doctors don't even take the request from women seriously.
These days, they tend to do tubal implants, which do not require general anesthesia and is an out patient procedure. This is what I was asking about in my late 30s when I got a lot of hemming and hawing.
Even when there's a solid medical reason to do the hysterectemy, doctors still often refuse because babies. My coworker is 35 with severe PCOS, and has asked multiple times to have her ovaries removed, as it currently causes her a lot of pain. The cysts are large enough that it's unlikely she'd even be able to get pregnant if she wanted to, and still the doctors insist "what if you change your mind?" She's an adult, she's not in a relationship, she doesn't want a relationship, she doesn't ever want children, and probably couldn't have them if she wanted them, and still they won't do it.
Sigh. That doctor sounds like an idiot, because of what they said. The decision itself was right. Removing ovaries brings up all sorts of hormonal issues and various issues related to that like heart disease, stroke, bone density, some cancers etc etc. As well as that, PCOS is a manageable condition that can change really significantly over time. There are absolutely women with PCOS who had ovaries removed at 30 and regretted that at 35. And not always because of babies. There are absolutely women who have enormous issues with PCOS in their 20s but it's far more settled in their 30s. Or vice versa. Your friend probably needs to be referred to a specialist so she can be better managed without surgery. No one should have to live in pain.
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I keep clicking the updates hoping to find something here that someone overheard at work.
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I keep clicking the updates hoping to find something here that someone overheard at work.
We're all retired though
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I keep clicking the updates hoping to find something here that someone overheard at work.
We're all retired though
And this puts you in the running for Non-Sequitur of the Month--don't worry though it's early days someone is sure to best you.
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I keep clicking the updates hoping to find something here that someone overheard at work.
We're all retired though
And this puts you in the running for Non-Sequitur of the Month--don't worry though it's early days someone is sure to best you.
If we are retired, sequitur that we do not overhear thing at work. Don’t worry, it’s late here so maybe I’m reading too much into your comment
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I keep clicking the updates hoping to find something here that someone overheard at work.
We're all retired though
I'm not retired, but all my coworkers are pretty good with their money, so I sadly have little to contribute.
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It depends on your doctor.
If it's important to you and you have the means, the solution is to fire your doctor. (Or more realistically, go to a different doctor for that one thing.)
I know there's a lot of people for whom this is too difficult or not worth the effort - I'm coming from a place of anger at medical gatekeeping, no one *should* have to switch doctors to get the care they need. But sometimes it's seriously worth it. (I've never done it for sterilization, but for stuff like getting surgery for something my first doctor wanted to keep treating with medications that weren't working.)
Reading everyone's stories, I'm so mad about this.
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It depends on your doctor.
If it's important to you and you have the means, the solution is to fire your doctor. (Or more realistically, go to a different doctor for that one thing.)
I know there's a lot of people for whom this is too difficult or not worth the effort - I'm coming from a place of anger at medical gatekeeping, no one *should* have to switch doctors to get the care they need. But sometimes it's seriously worth it. (I've never done it for sterilization, but for stuff like getting surgery for something my first doctor wanted to keep treating with medications that weren't working.) I'm not sure how one finds a doctor willing to do a certain procedure without having to go to a ridiculous number of appointments, but I wonder if that's something the internet would help with? That's where I found a provider for the one other thing I needed that people tend to have feelings about.
This is assuming that you live somewhere that finding a new doctor isn't a burden. In my town, we had three OBGYNs. One of them had been in business so long that she delivered me and hasn't taken new patients in years. The other two are more or less the same in terms of what services they offer to whom (for example, both are notorious for refusing to schedule anatomy scans until after the 20 week mark which makes terminating a pregnancy more difficult to obtain if something shows up on that scan). The next closest doctor was 30 minutes away. Of course, now that the hospital is closed they've all moved their offices to the next town over so there are a handful of other choices, but none truly local anymore.
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I keep clicking the updates hoping to find something here that someone overheard at work.
We're all retired though
Not me. I just come here for a preview of retired life... Wishful thinking. Getting there though.
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I keep clicking the updates hoping to find something here that someone overheard at work.
We're all retired though
And this puts you in the running for Non-Sequitur of the Month--don't worry though it's early days someone is sure to best you.
If we are retired, sequitur that we do not overhear thing at work. Don’t worry, it’s late here so maybe I’m reading too much into your comment
Well this is Overheard at Work thread, and whenever I click recently I get Obstetrics and Urology haha
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^^^^ Only if it's done as a hysterectomy. Snipping the Fallopian tubes is done via laparoscopy.
Still a general, still an overnight stay, and still an invasive surgical procedure in the abdomen. You get a small infection from this you are in a VERY different place from a man who gets a small infection from a vasectomy. People treat this stuff like it's no drama because we generally don't kill people in surgery anymore. However, that doesn't reflect the recovery and issues in recovery at all. Abdominal surgery is a big deal.
I've been told it's possible to combine this with a C-section, so that would require no extra abdominal surgery in many cases.
Of course surgery is always something to be careful about, but I don't think sterilization of the male partner is something that can ever replace sterilization of the female herself - if the woman is the one who doesn't want or medically shouldn't go through pregnancy she should have the option for permanent anticonception, not the male she is currently with.
I just checked the official guidelines in my country and they state that there is no randomized study available that compares the safety of female sterilization to other methods of birth control, that sterilization is generally safe and the general anesthetic is the biggest risk factor.
A C section is MASSIVE surgery. You could combine anything with it. Hell, lop a leg off and it's not that much more serious! It wasn't that long ago that C sections killed 100% of patients. Even today, although obviously the survival rate is nearly 100%, the post op is not a lot of fun for many people.
[...]
Chemical sterilisation of women is an option that men don't have. That's the point you seem to be willingly missing. You can have an subdermal implant, you can take a pill, half a dozen other options. I'm not even including shitty options like IUDs. Any of those is ALWAYS preferable to surgery. Of course the option to get pregnant or not should be in the hands of women. No one is disagreeing with that. But there better be a damn good reason why you would subject a patient to that risk when there are other very good options available. And if surgery comes down to being the only realistic option, let's see if the male partner will take one for the team first. Women don't have to have surgery to manage birth control. So why the hell would you? (Not including particular medical issues that really do make surgery the best option)
I don't really think this is a fair representation of what I said. I certainly never said that sterilisation is preferable to other forms of contraception. It's certainly not - sterilisation means you're going back to natural periods and many women don't want that. I haven't heard of sterilisation being the nr 1 preferable option for anyone. Actually according to my own doctor, the pill, if used correctly, is safer to prevent pregnancy than sterilisation.
But taking hormones isn't an option for loads of women - I don't know any statistics but just in my group of friends 4 ladies that I know of have been told by their doctor they can't have hormonal birth control anymore. And outside of sterilisation there are few other reliable non-hormonal options. I have a friend who used an app to predict her fertile days (spoiler: yes she got pregnant) and another friend used a women's condom, but apparantly that's a much bigger hassle than a condom for men. I think all women understand the fear of pregnancy and not having access to a reliable form of contraception that you can control must be terrifying. Especially if there's a medical risk in case you get pregnant again. One advantage of living in a small country in Europe is that it's easy to get around. I know one person who travelled abroad to get a sterilisation in s less strict country, but you need to have some money to be able to afford that.
I know C-sections are dangerous - my mother and I nearly died from it. But that's not my point. If sterilisation is a procedure that can easily be combined with a C-section, why aren't women offered that option ( at least not generally where I live, hopefully in other countries it's easier)? The particular friend I keep referring to, because I'm still pissed off at how terribly she was treated by her doctors - she was told never to get pregnant again and that she couldn't have a sterilisation during her C-section because she might regret it during the same conversation that she was having after an unplanned pregnancy because she isn't allowed to take hormones and condoms failed. They already had more kids than they planned for, medically advised not to get pregnant and not a lot of reliable options to prevent pregnancy. I don't know a better case for sterilisation than this friend, and she didn't get it because she was too young (early 30s) so she may regret it.
Of course a doctor should warn about regrets for any elective procedure, but regret shouldn't be a legal ground to sue a doctor. You don't sue your tattoo artist when you regret that.
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I keep clicking the updates hoping to find something here that someone overheard at work.
We're all retired though
And this puts you in the running for Non-Sequitur of the Month--don't worry though it's early days someone is sure to best you.
If we are retired, sequitur that we do not overhear thing at work. Don’t worry, it’s late here so maybe I’m reading too much into your comment
Well this is Overheard at Work thread, and whenever I click recently I get Obstetrics and Urology haha
We had a young woman in our office who was denied implant birth control by her doctor because “If you can swallow a pill, then you’ll take a pill.” She was career and education focused, trying to get established on her own financially and wanted the security of the implant during a time in her life when it wasn’t easy for her to take daily pills.
We had another applicant who told us in an interview that the reason she wanted to leave her old job was because her boss was pushing her to stop taking birth control due to her boss’s religious beliefs. That is certainly not her boss’s business and she eventually ended up unemployed then on a different career path largely due to that.
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I keep clicking the updates hoping to find something here that someone overheard at work.
We're all retired though
And this puts you in the running for Non-Sequitur of the Month--don't worry though it's early days someone is sure to best you.
If we are retired, sequitur that we do not overhear thing at work. Don’t worry, it’s late here so maybe I’m reading too much into your comment
Well this is Overheard at Work thread, and whenever I click recently I get Obstetrics and Urology haha
Careful, you're not allowed to think Obstetrics and Urology are gross.
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I keep clicking the updates hoping to find something here that someone overheard at work.
We're all retired though
And this puts you in the running for Non-Sequitur of the Month--don't worry though it's early days someone is sure to best you.
If we are retired, sequitur that we do not overhear thing at work. Don’t worry, it’s late here so maybe I’m reading too much into your comment
Well this is Overheard at Work thread, and whenever I click recently I get Obstetrics and Urology haha
We had a young woman in our office who was denied implant birth control by her doctor because “If you can swallow a pill, then you’ll take a pill.” She was career and education focused, trying to get established on her own financially and wanted the security of the implant during a time in her life when it wasn’t easy for her to take daily pills.
We had another applicant who told us in an interview that the reason she wanted to leave her old job was because her boss was pushing her to stop taking birth control due to her boss’s religious beliefs. That is certainly not her boss’s business and she eventually ended up unemployed then on a different career path largely due to that.
A boss who is happy for a female employee to get pregnant? Now that's a first.
I use birth control and am medically not able to have kids. One time when someone started the bullshit speech about how women should have kids because God created us to be mothers, I said, well, He didn't choose to bless us that way. That was a very succesful conversation ender.
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I keep clicking the updates hoping to find something here that someone overheard at work.
We're all retired though
And this puts you in the running for Non-Sequitur of the Month--don't worry though it's early days someone is sure to best you.
If we are retired, sequitur that we do not overhear thing at work. Don’t worry, it’s late here so maybe I’m reading too much into your comment
Well this is Overheard at Work thread, and whenever I click recently I get Obstetrics and Urology haha
Careful, you're not allowed to think Obstetrics and Urology are gross.
"Not allowed"
Goodness, how fragile.
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I keep clicking the updates hoping to find something here that someone overheard at work.
We're all retired though
And this puts you in the running for Non-Sequitur of the Month--don't worry though it's early days someone is sure to best you.
If we are retired, sequitur that we do not overhear thing at work. Don’t worry, it’s late here so maybe I’m reading too much into your comment
Well this is Overheard at Work thread, and whenever I click recently I get Obstetrics and Urology haha
Careful, you're not allowed to think Obstetrics and Urology are gross.
"Not allowed"
Goodness, how fragile.
Why would anyone thing Obstetrics and Urology are gross? Important basic biological functions. And a boss thinking someone should not be on birth control seems to be perfect for this thread. Yikes!
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Broke colleague who swings between "look at my new shoes" and "ugh, can't afford to buy food till payday" is now talking about buying a dog.
A $3500 dog.
She lives in a unit, pets aren't permitted and she already has a cat.
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Broke colleague who swings between "look at my new shoes" and "ugh, can't afford to buy food till payday" is now talking about buying a dog.
A $3500 dog.
She lives in a unit, pets aren't permitted and she already has a cat.
If only there was a gold medal for being stupid, she could sell hers and solve her money problems. For a few months, anyway.
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I keep clicking the updates hoping to find something here that someone overheard at work.
We're all retired though
And this puts you in the running for Non-Sequitur of the Month--don't worry though it's early days someone is sure to best you.
If we are retired, sequitur that we do not overhear thing at work. Don’t worry, it’s late here so maybe I’m reading too much into your comment
Well this is Overheard at Work thread, and whenever I click recently I get Obstetrics and Urology haha
Careful, you're not allowed to think Obstetrics and Urology are gross.
"Not allowed"
Goodness, how fragile.
Why would anyone thing Obstetrics and Urology are gross? Important basic biological functions. And a boss thinking someone should not be on birth control seems to be perfect for this thread. Yikes!
Eh I think proctology is gross and that’s also related to important basic biological functions
Are we not allowed to be fragile now? Sounds a bit a like social darwinism
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I keep clicking the updates hoping to find something here that someone overheard at work.
We're all retired though
And this puts you in the running for Non-Sequitur of the Month--don't worry though it's early days someone is sure to best you.
If we are retired, sequitur that we do not overhear thing at work. Don’t worry, it’s late here so maybe I’m reading too much into your comment
Well this is Overheard at Work thread, and whenever I click recently I get Obstetrics and Urology haha
Careful, you're not allowed to think Obstetrics and Urology are gross.
"Not allowed"
Goodness, how fragile.
Why would anyone thing Obstetrics and Urology are gross? Important basic biological functions. And a boss thinking someone should not be on birth control seems to be perfect for this thread. Yikes!
Eh I think proctology is gross and that’s also related to important basic biological functions
Are we not allowed to be fragile now? Sounds a bit a like social darwinism
I don't about "being allowed" to be fragile, and granted this could have gone elsewhere, but knowing the basics is important to our health. Ignorance is not bliss.
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I thought tubal ligation was common after having your last kid right after birth. It was for my generation if you had at least two kids. Women should be in charge with no male interference even if you never had kids.
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Here is how this thread topic got started, in case people have forgotten...
Anyone else hear the craziest things while at work?
Today it was, "Well the commutes gonna be a lot longer, but it was only $100 more per month for a 3 bedroom"
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CW: I like getting paid every two weeks. It's so much easier to plan that way
me: ...
CW: Once I worked somewhere that they paid twice a month - the 15th and the 30th. I hated it!
me: ...
CW: It's so hard to plan around that.
me: ...
CW: If the 15th fell on a Sunday, you didn't get the check until Monday!
CW: I used to go out a lot more, and you can imagine if I didn't get paid until Monday, then that made going out all that much more difficult
me: {don't ask, don't ask, don't engage and maybe he'll just stop talking}
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CW: I like getting paid every two weeks. It's so much easier to plan that way
me: ...
CW: Once I worked somewhere that they paid twice a month - the 15th and the 30th. I hated it!
me: ...
CW: It's so hard to plan around that.
me: ...
CW: If the 15th fell on a Sunday, you didn't get the check until Monday!
CW: I used to go out a lot more, and you can imagine if I didn't get paid until Monday, then that made going out all that much more difficult
me: {don't ask, don't ask, don't engage and maybe he'll just stop talking}
Some people can't seem to get past basic arithmetic. If you told this person that credit cards offer 30 days interest free, you'd probably see them maxed out in days.
I would rather be paid twice a month. The three paycheck months are kind of annoying.
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One of my coworkers was complaining today about all the money they spend. $10 Uber each way to the train station, $8 commuter rail each way, $15 lunch... “I’m spending almost $50 a day just to be in this office!”
I suggested biking to the train station might be an option, and he said “nah, it’s way too far- almost 2 miles! And I’d rather pay $10 for the Uber than spend a thousand dollars on a bike.” And then started complaining about how terrible the train service is and that we should call our legislators to demand improvements.
I thought about mentioning that my bike cost what he spends on Ubers in 2 weeks, or that even an unfit person could manage 2 miles in 15 minutes, but some conversations are not worth having.
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One of my coworkers was complaining today about all the money they spend. $10 Uber each way to the train station, $8 commuter rail each way, $15 lunch... “I’m spending almost $50 a day just to be in this office!”
I suggested biking to the train station might be an option, and he said “nah, it’s way too far- almost 2 miles! And I’d rather pay $10 for the Uber than spend a thousand dollars on a bike.” And then started complaining about how terrible the train service is and that we should call our legislators to demand improvements.
I thought about mentioning that my bike cost what he spends on Ubers in 2 weeks, or that even an unfit person could manage 2 miles in 15 minutes, but some conversations are not worth having.
It depends on the 2 miles. I could make it to the train station on my bike, but I would just be walking it up hill to get home. Even the super fit ones who bike it on a regular basis don't make it look easy!
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CW: I like getting paid every two weeks. It's so much easier to plan that way
me: ...
CW: Once I worked somewhere that they paid twice a month - the 15th and the 30th. I hated it!
me: ...
CW: It's so hard to plan around that.
me: ...
CW: If the 15th fell on a Sunday, you didn't get the check until Monday!
CW: I used to go out a lot more, and you can imagine if I didn't get paid until Monday, then that made going out all that much more difficult
me: {don't ask, don't ask, don't engage and maybe he'll just stop talking}
Some people can't seem to get past basic arithmetic. If you told this person that credit cards offer 30 days interest free, you'd probably see them maxed out in days.
I would rather be paid twice a month. The three paycheck months are kind of annoying.
Ugh, I can't imagine how stressed I'd be by living like this. I've never been paycheck to paycheck, so it's never mattered much to me how frequently I was paid. I'm curious though, @Wrenchturner why is it annoying to be paid three times a month? Does your employer not have direct deposit?
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One of my coworkers was complaining today about all the money they spend. $10 Uber each way to the train station, $8 commuter rail each way, $15 lunch... “I’m spending almost $50 a day just to be in this office!”
I suggested biking to the train station might be an option, and he said “nah, it’s way too far- almost 2 miles! And I’d rather pay $10 for the Uber than spend a thousand dollars on a bike.” And then started complaining about how terrible the train service is and that we should call our legislators to demand improvements.
I thought about mentioning that my bike cost what he spends on Ubers in 2 weeks, or that even an unfit person could manage 2 miles in 15 minutes, but some conversations are not worth having.
Yikes. That person wants to be broke. I spent $40 on my bike via Craigslist. A 2-mile ride is easy.
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CW: I like getting paid every two weeks. It's so much easier to plan that way
me: ...
CW: Once I worked somewhere that they paid twice a month - the 15th and the 30th. I hated it!
me: ...
CW: It's so hard to plan around that.
me: ...
CW: If the 15th fell on a Sunday, you didn't get the check until Monday!
CW: I used to go out a lot more, and you can imagine if I didn't get paid until Monday, then that made going out all that much more difficult
me: {don't ask, don't ask, don't engage and maybe he'll just stop talking}
Some people can't seem to get past basic arithmetic. If you told this person that credit cards offer 30 days interest free, you'd probably see them maxed out in days.
I would rather be paid twice a month. The three paycheck months are kind of annoying.
Ugh, I can't imagine how stressed I'd be by living like this. I've never been paycheck to paycheck, so it's never mattered much to me how frequently I was paid. I'm curious though, @Wrenchturner why is it annoying to be paid three times a month? Does your employer not have direct deposit?
I have direct deposit, but having my income jump by 50% for ~three months out of the year is annoying because it means I have to go out of my way to invest it.
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CW: I like getting paid every two weeks. It's so much easier to plan that way
me: ...
CW: Once I worked somewhere that they paid twice a month - the 15th and the 30th. I hated it!
me: ...
CW: It's so hard to plan around that.
me: ...
CW: If the 15th fell on a Sunday, you didn't get the check until Monday!
CW: I used to go out a lot more, and you can imagine if I didn't get paid until Monday, then that made going out all that much more difficult
me: {don't ask, don't ask, don't engage and maybe he'll just stop talking}
Some people can't seem to get past basic arithmetic. If you told this person that credit cards offer 30 days interest free, you'd probably see them maxed out in days.
I would rather be paid twice a month. The three paycheck months are kind of annoying.
Ugh, I can't imagine how stressed I'd be by living like this. I've never been paycheck to paycheck, so it's never mattered much to me how frequently I was paid.
I've only ever worried about the timing of a pay check once when I didn't have enough to pay rent. Luckily the landlord let me pay late with no fee.
It was so stressful.
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An overheard at my old work:
My former employer offered a very generous company car budget once you reached a certain level in the company. My new Legal Director colleague wanted to look for a car within that budget, but her Legal Vice President colleagues persuaded her to take the company car budget, add her own budget (the amount she would normally privately spend on a car) and get as large a car as she could afford. She did....
She also sold her own car (that makes sense, of course) at a loss (of course), and then left our company within 6 months, as she didn't get along with our micromanaging supervisor.
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One of my coworkers was complaining today about all the money they spend. $10 Uber each way to the train station, $8 commuter rail each way, $15 lunch... “I’m spending almost $50 a day just to be in this office!”
I suggested biking to the train station might be an option, and he said “nah, it’s way too far- almost 2 miles! And I’d rather pay $10 for the Uber than spend a thousand dollars on a bike.” And then started complaining about how terrible the train service is and that we should call our legislators to demand improvements.
I thought about mentioning that my bike cost what he spends on Ubers in 2 weeks, or that even an unfit person could manage 2 miles in 15 minutes, but some conversations are not worth having.
It depends on the 2 miles. I could make it to the train station on my bike, but I would just be walking it up hill to get home. Even the super fit ones who bike it on a regular basis don't make it look easy!
In that case you can buy a cheap electrified bike for $500 shiny new! It pays for itself after just a quarter, probably does not take more time than waiting for the Uber driver and is a lot healthier!
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CW: I like getting paid every two weeks. It's so much easier to plan that way
me: ...
CW: Once I worked somewhere that they paid twice a month - the 15th and the 30th. I hated it!
me: ...
CW: It's so hard to plan around that.
me: ...
CW: If the 15th fell on a Sunday, you didn't get the check until Monday!
CW: I used to go out a lot more, and you can imagine if I didn't get paid until Monday, then that made going out all that much more difficult
me: {don't ask, don't ask, don't engage and maybe he'll just stop talking}
Some people can't seem to get past basic arithmetic. If you told this person that credit cards offer 30 days interest free, you'd probably see them maxed out in days.
I would rather be paid twice a month. The three paycheck months are kind of annoying.
Ugh, I can't imagine how stressed I'd be by living like this. I've never been paycheck to paycheck, so it's never mattered much to me how frequently I was paid. I'm curious though, @Wrenchturner why is it annoying to be paid three times a month? Does your employer not have direct deposit?
I have direct deposit, but having my income jump by 50% for ~three months out of the year is annoying because it means I have to go out of my way to invest it.
We get paid twice a week and I think it's funny to watch co-workers go on about their "free paycheck" during those months. But then they also tend to forget that there will be months where the "first" paycheck of the month won't be until 7th or 8th. My budget system is set up a a little different so I don't really notice how many paychecks I get in a given month.
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The key to an every-other-week paycheck is to set a monthly budget for 2 paychecks (instead of 1/12th annual pay) and get a paycheck ahead on expenses. That way, you're never waiting on the "next paycheck" to pay the bills, they come out of the last paycheck. Once that happens, it's a whole lot less stressful.
The nice thing is that if someone sets their monthly budget based on 2 paychecks, within 6 months there will be a 3 paycheck month and they'll now be a paycheck ahead.
And about every 6 months they can get one more paycheck ahead. Over the course of 5 years that's 10 paychecks ahead, or a 5 month emergency fund. Don't even have to know about how to invest...
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Suggest going to a monthly paycheck schedule and wait for the hand wringing...
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Suggest going to a monthly paycheck schedule and wait for the hand wringing...
Yep.
I actually liked having a monthly paycheck schedule when I was in grad school. Now, my contract companies all pay monthly but on different days. I wish I could set things up to have all of the deposits arrive on the same day.
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This probably belongs in the MPP thread, but I'll jump on board that the 2-week checks are mildly annoying. Every bill I have is defined monthly (or 3/6 monthly) and usually due the same business day (+/- a weekend) so having the actual pay date moving around means I have to keep a greater slush amount in my checking account to make sure things are covered. Add to it that the 3rd paycheck in a month is a different amount (no insurance deductions) and things get wonky and upset my sense of order. lol
My previous employer paid monthly on the last Friday of the month. It was glorious. Every check was the same, on the same (business) day. Never heard anyone there complain about budgeting for it, though. Most of my coworkers were frugal by normal society's standards - not by this community, though. :)
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CW: I like getting paid every two weeks. It's so much easier to plan that way
me: ...
CW: Once I worked somewhere that they paid twice a month - the 15th and the 30th. I hated it!
me: ...
CW: It's so hard to plan around that.
me: ...
CW: If the 15th fell on a Sunday, you didn't get the check until Monday!
CW: I used to go out a lot more, and you can imagine if I didn't get paid until Monday, then that made going out all that much more difficult
me: {don't ask, don't ask, don't engage and maybe he'll just stop talking}
Some people can't seem to get past basic arithmetic. If you told this person that credit cards offer 30 days interest free, you'd probably see them maxed out in days.
I would rather be paid twice a month. The three paycheck months are kind of annoying.
Ugh, I can't imagine how stressed I'd be by living like this. I've never been paycheck to paycheck, so it's never mattered much to me how frequently I was paid. I'm curious though, @Wrenchturner why is it annoying to be paid three times a month? Does your employer not have direct deposit?
When my work transitioned from twice-monthly to bi-weekly paychecks a bunch of people flipped out. The only legitimate (IMO) complaint was that a bunch of bills are defined monthly (utilities, credit card, car payment, mortgage, alimony, child support, etc.) and so if you are living paycheck-to-paycheck on those monthly bills then bi-weekly paychecks make life harder because the amount you get monthly goes down until you hit the three-paycheck month.
That's at least logical, if not the most mustachian thing in the world. There was also a bunch of conspiracy-theorizing about how $employer was just keeping money longer so they could gain more interest on it, which if course makes absolutely no mathematical sense since they're actually truing-up with you more often, meaning that $company would get less money in interest. The number of completely math-illiterate people in senior positions was eye-opening, and they would just double-down and argue harder when you proved them mathematically wrong.
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I've been paycheck to paycheck on bi-monthly and bi-weekly and it didn't make too much difference. It's hard no matter what. Dragging yourself out of that is incredibly difficult.
Now, both DH and I get paid bi-weekly and we're on opposite weeks. So we get a paycheck every Friday. That is pretty awesome. We're not paycheck to paycheck anymore, but it's nice to not have to keep a huge buffer in checking for cashflow.
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When I was paycheck to paycheck, I liked bi-weekly. I managed for 10 months out of the year and the other two months gave me a bit of a breather/ chance to catch up.
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When I was paycheck to paycheck, I liked bi-weekly. I managed for 10 months out of the year and the other two months gave me a bit of a breather/ chance to catch up.
My property tax is due semiannually in a way that kind of lines up with the third paycheck of the occasional two-paycheck month, so I enjoy the luxury of simply earmarking a portion of that extra paycheck for the property tax.
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For most of my career I was paid weekly, so I always budgeted on a weekly basis. I still have our vanguard contributions come out weekly though we both are now paid every two weeks, and on the same day at that.
I’m sure it is less than optimized, but we just keep a bunch of cash sloshing around in checking so I never have to think about lumpy payments. My brain space is finite and I’d rather actively manage something else.
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Sad thing is that these days, the amount of interest you get on savings accounts makes it hardly worth the effort to move money back and forth for cash flow reasons. I usually just leave a bunch of money in the checking account and then when it gets too big transfer a bunch up to an investment account.
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Sad thing is that these days, the amount of interest you get on savings accounts makes it hardly worth the effort to move money back and forth for cash flow reasons. I usually just leave a bunch of money in the checking account and then when it gets too big transfer a bunch up to an investment account.
MMM World Problems
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This paycheck schedule conversation comes up periodically on this site and the responses seem to be, don't notice payday because I don't live paycheck to paycheck, or everything is earmarked so I absolutely notice. I am in the latter camp. Nothing is really slush. We send a narrow amount in the checking account to cover regular expenses and bills and everything else is direct deposited to savings, investment, or education accounts.
So I definitely know when payday is and we are purposely budgeted in a paycheck to paycheck manner, in that we pretend that the other accounts don't exist. I assume other folks in the accumulation phase do the same.
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This paycheck schedule conversation comes up periodically on this site and the responses seem to be, don't notice payday because I don't live paycheck to paycheck, or everything is earmarked so I absolutely notice. I am in the latter camp. Nothing is really slush. We send a narrow amount in the checking account to cover regular expenses and bills and everything else is direct deposited to savings, investment, or education accounts.
So I definitely know when payday is and we are purposely budgeted in a paycheck to paycheck manner, in that we pretend that the other accounts don't exist. I assume other folks in the accumulation phase do the same.
I notice payday because I LOVE PAYDAY. I have no problem dancing around the office every two weeks singing about payday. It's the entire reason that I'm there ffs.
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This paycheck schedule conversation comes up periodically on this site and the responses seem to be, don't notice payday because I don't live paycheck to paycheck, or everything is earmarked so I absolutely notice. I am in the latter camp. Nothing is really slush. We send a narrow amount in the checking account to cover regular expenses and bills and everything else is direct deposited to savings, investment, or education accounts.
So I definitely know when payday is and we are purposely budgeted in a paycheck to paycheck manner, in that we pretend that the other accounts don't exist. I assume other folks in the accumulation phase do the same.
Same. Husband gets paid W-2 income weekly and works somewhat variable hours. I get paid on three days per month (contracts with three different companies) in varying amounts, which means it's difficult to automate finances to allocate 30% of my gross to the account for quarterly taxes and 30% of all net into various savings accounts (beyond 401k and some HSA out of husband's check). So yeah, it's much easier to know when payments come in so that everything gets allocated right away.
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This paycheck schedule conversation comes up periodically on this site and the responses seem to be, don't notice payday because I don't live paycheck to paycheck, or everything is earmarked so I absolutely notice. I am in the latter camp. Nothing is really slush. We send a narrow amount in the checking account to cover regular expenses and bills and everything else is direct deposited to savings, investment, or education accounts.
So I definitely know when payday is and we are purposely budgeted in a paycheck to paycheck manner, in that we pretend that the other accounts don't exist. I assume other folks in the accumulation phase do the same.
I notice payday because I LOVE PAYDAY. I have no problem dancing around the office every two weeks singing about payday. It's the entire reason that I'm there ffs.
I can’t believe you like money too... (https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/00b19fc5-cc98-4af3-8298-93092ffc4ff6)
We should hang out! (https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/c34ddb39-bc55-46fe-9c90-dfbf7f8c892e)
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I took a Lyft to a job site (company expensed) which I normally wouldn't, but I couldn't get a rental car in time. When we were on the highway, we must have passed by some large signage about car insurance premiums, because the driver immediately asked me, "Shocking, right? Well I pay much more for my car insurance than that!" He went on to say how his car insurance premiums doubled this year, so he has to pay $8,000 a year vs $4,000 from last year. "I have two luxury cars, but still!" (Said Lyft was a Mercedes Benz.) He said he'd have to call his insurance agent right after this ride. Throughout this ride, he mentioned he was retired, but drives Lyft part-time to make money, but then complained about the mortgage and other costs on his condo. He said apartments are icky, which is funny to me because condos basically are apartments.
So glad I don't have a car. But I've personally never owned a car so IDK. It just seems like a lot of trouble.
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This paycheck schedule conversation comes up periodically on this site and the responses seem to be, don't notice payday because I don't live paycheck to paycheck, or everything is earmarked so I absolutely notice. I am in the latter camp. Nothing is really slush. We send a narrow amount in the checking account to cover regular expenses and bills and everything else is direct deposited to savings, investment, or education accounts.
So I definitely know when payday is and we are purposely budgeted in a paycheck to paycheck manner, in that we pretend that the other accounts don't exist. I assume other folks in the accumulation phase do the same.
I notice payday because I LOVE PAYDAY. I have no problem dancing around the office every two weeks singing about payday. It's the entire reason that I'm there ffs.
I can’t believe you like money too... (https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/00b19fc5-cc98-4af3-8298-93092ffc4ff6)
We should hang out! (https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/c34ddb39-bc55-46fe-9c90-dfbf7f8c892e)
You'd be surprised at some reactions I've had. I had a manager years ago get all sniffy and tell me that it can't just all be about the money. I asked him how long he'd come to work if they didn't pay him.....
I had another co worker tell me that it was rude to dance around and act like I was only here because I was getting paid. My manager heard and said she was also only there because she was getting paid. Co worker thought we were both rude.
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This paycheck schedule conversation comes up periodically on this site and the responses seem to be, don't notice payday because I don't live paycheck to paycheck, or everything is earmarked so I absolutely notice. I am in the latter camp. Nothing is really slush. We send a narrow amount in the checking account to cover regular expenses and bills and everything else is direct deposited to savings, investment, or education accounts.
So I definitely know when payday is and we are purposely budgeted in a paycheck to paycheck manner, in that we pretend that the other accounts don't exist. I assume other folks in the accumulation phase do the same.
I notice payday because I LOVE PAYDAY. I have no problem dancing around the office every two weeks singing about payday. It's the entire reason that I'm there ffs.
I can’t believe you like money too... (https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/00b19fc5-cc98-4af3-8298-93092ffc4ff6)
We should hang out! (https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/c34ddb39-bc55-46fe-9c90-dfbf7f8c892e)
You'd be surprised at some reactions I've had. I had a manager years ago get all sniffy and tell me that it can't just all be about the money. I asked him how long he'd come to work if they didn't pay him.....
I had another co worker tell me that it was rude to dance around and act like I was only here because I was getting paid. My manager heard and said she was also only there because she was getting paid. Co worker thought we were both rude.
Well..... it's unmoral to not work, right?
or so we have been told for ages by people who did not need to "work".
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I loved payday too. It was the reason I worked. The art is to pretend you don't care and be a good sheep like the others so you can enjoy bigger and uninterrupted paydays. Never underestimate that sniffy manager who would put your name on a short list to be booted with a downturn- many people are jealous egocentric jack wangs who secretly harbor darkness in their hearts. They are not happy for you, they don't want dancing over paychecks, they don't want drama in the workplace if dancing offends others. They want sheep who stay in their place.
I had the conversation once at age 25 with a boss who gave me the "I work for noble reasons" bullshit and when I asked if they would keep working the day after they won the lottery the answer was a hard NOPE. But until that jackpot arrived that boss was going to keep the noble stick up their ass and pretend to be above it all. And my name was put on the short list of uppity workers who were trouble and things were not very pleasant for me afterward. Fortunately I left on my own accord but I learned the lesson. I learned to fake it as long as required while keeping mental clarity that I was there for the little green rectangles. Keeping it clear in my mind that I was trading bits of my life for those little green rectangles is what made FIRE an option at all.
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I also loved payday. Loved to see the savings racking up. One co-worker said "It makes no difference because it's already spent."
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I loved payday too. It was the reason I worked. The art is to pretend you don't care and be a good sheep like the others so you can enjoy bigger and uninterrupted paydays. Never underestimate that sniffy manager who would put your name on a short list to be booted with a downturn- many people are jealous egocentric jack wangs who secretly harbor darkness in their hearts. They are not happy for you, they don't want dancing over paychecks, they don't want drama in the workplace if dancing offends others. They want sheep who stay in their place.
I had the conversation once at age 25 with a boss who gave me the "I work for noble reasons" bullshit and when I asked if they would keep working the day after they won the lottery the answer was a hard NOPE. But until that jackpot arrived that boss was going to keep the noble stick up their ass and pretend to be above it all. And my name was put on the short list of uppity workers who were trouble and things were not very pleasant for me afterward. Fortunately I left on my own accord but I learned the lesson. I learned to fake it as long as required while keeping mental clarity that I was there for the little green rectangles. Keeping it clear in my mind that I was trading bits of my life for those little green rectangles is what made FIRE an option at all.
That's all absolutely true. Unfortunately, I'm shit at playing the game and pretending. Dancing around on payday is the least of my workplace issues. If there's a shortlist, I'm always on the frickin thing.
Love the term 'jackwang'. I'm going to use that.
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I also live “paycheck to paycheck” because everything is allocated. I have a golden parachute of a pension. I am actively thinking about how I have to transition in 2025 from biweekly pay to monthly. I’m use to first paycheck is mortgage and investments to vanguard second paycheck pays everything else (aka paid in full credit card which also is all utilities etc)
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Recently started a cushy office job in gov't contracting. There's a coworker I really don't understand, let's call her Gwen.
- She's 32 with 2 kids - single, with shared custody of them with dad
- No degree
- High-level clearance
- Makes at least 85k, likely more.
Our contract was recently won by a different company, which means we have to re-interview for our jobs and there's a chance some of us won't get hired. This is our last month on the current contract, but we've also known this transition has been coming since I got here 6 months ago, probably longer.
In those 6 months, her work schedule for our 9-5 job is:
- Get in at 10
- On good days, "work" from 10-3, with an hour lunch
- On bad days, "work" from 10-11, then she's out of the office from 11-2:30
- 2:30 - 3 Eat lunch (always a local restaurant or Uber Eats) & chat with us
- Leave at 3.
Good:Bad Day ratio is probably 3:2. When she does work, it's at least 50% Instagram scrolling or chatting with her friends/boyfriend on the phone.
Unsurprisingly, she's not getting a recommendation from our boss to be brought onto the new contract. Her response to the lack of contact from the new company while the rest of us get emails & offers is a lot of worrying. Talking about her anxiety*, how she has never used LinkedIn and it's such a pain to re-type her resume, how she's got two kids to support*, and has nothing saved and will need to dip into her 401k after her Tax Return runs out, and she hopes God comes through for her. Nevermind that in the last 2 months she's been on a cruise and gone gambling a few times.
I hope I'm not being too uncharitable here. I feel like 85k is a lot of money given lack of a degree for a pretty easy office job with flexible hours that many of my friends would take and work hard at in a heartbeat.
*No disrespect to those suffering from anxiety or who have kids to support. I don't have either, but think they're both extremely legitimate factors. I can see why being extra tired from kids or irrational due to anxiety would make things harder, especially for a single mom. My issue is that I don't see any signs that these fears encourage her to do anything different or take personal responsibility where she can.
Bonus: She freely admits she owes over 100k in legal fees from custody battles over her kids.
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Gwen shouldn't be planning on staying at that location.... if somehow she manages to, then God really does work in strange ways.
Also this ** "Unsurprisingly, she's not getting a recommendation from our boss to be brought onto the new contract " **
Seems to me the boss shouldn't be picked up under the new contract either, they have been aware of Gwen's attendance history , right ?
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I also loved payday. Loved to see the savings racking up. One co-worker said "It makes no difference because it's already spent."
I love payday for the same reason. DW and I tell each other - look at what we didn't spend last month and this month we're adding another lump of salaries to that amount!
Its like slow motion Monopoly.
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"Slow motion Monopoly" - that's great!
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Gwen shouldn't be planning on staying at that location.... if somehow she manages to, then God really does work in strange ways.
Also this ** "Unsurprisingly, she's not getting a recommendation from our boss to be brought onto the new contract " **
Seems to me the boss shouldn't be picked up under the new contract either, they have been aware of Gwen's attendance history , right ?
I work in Gov contracting too.
Contract leads will not let someone go for poor performance in some cases, as the firing has to be explained to the Gov customer. Some gov customers view this negatively as poor hiring process by the prime/sub contractor. This is why contract primes/subs keep records and keep this under wraps until the contract is up for bid or expires. Also, they don't give the poor performer raises, hoping the person will find a better job and leave. Her raises and bonuses go to other team members who make up for her slack.
It isn't her supervisor's fault if he wasn't involved in hiring her. Also boss's upline makes staffing decisions.
It's a game of Poker in real life.
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I also loved payday. Loved to see the savings racking up. One co-worker said "It makes no difference because it's already spent."
I love payday for the same reason. DW and I tell each other - look at what we didn't spend last month and this month we're adding another lump of salaries to that amount!
Its like slow motion Monopoly.
Even better if you're paid in cash like Monopoly.
I was at my first job and it was glorious.
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Gwen shouldn't be planning on staying at that location.... if somehow she manages to, then God really does work in strange ways.
Also this ** "Unsurprisingly, she's not getting a recommendation from our boss to be brought onto the new contract " **
Seems to me the boss shouldn't be picked up under the new contract either, they have been aware of Gwen's attendance history , right ?
I work in Gov contracting too.
Contract leads will not let someone go for poor performance in some cases, as the firing has to be explained to the Gov customer. Some gov customers view this negatively as poor hiring process by the prime/sub contractor. This is why contract primes/subs keep records and keep this under wraps until the contract is up for bid or expires. Also, they don't give the poor performer raises, hoping the person will find a better job and leave. Her raises and bonuses go to other team members who make up for her slack.
It isn't her supervisor's fault if he wasn't involved in hiring her. Also boss's upline makes staffing decisions.
It's a game of Poker in real life.
Strongly agree. Saw a lot of stuff like this at my last gig too while I helped staffing between PMs.
There are a lot of political/contract detail factors that didn't warrant mention in the post, but suffice it to say our boss is smart, and she has good reasons for letting the contract run its course rather than firing Gwen. Thankfully just about everyone else on the team are rockstars that I'll get to learn a lot from.
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Gwen shouldn't be planning on staying at that location.... if somehow she manages to, then God really does work in strange ways.
Also this ** "Unsurprisingly, she's not getting a recommendation from our boss to be brought onto the new contract " **
Seems to me the boss shouldn't be picked up under the new contract either, they have been aware of Gwen's attendance history , right ?
I work in Gov contracting too.
Contract leads will not let someone go for poor performance in some cases, as the firing has to be explained to the Gov customer. Some gov customers view this negatively as poor hiring process by the prime/sub contractor. This is why contract primes/subs keep records and keep this under wraps until the contract is up for bid or expires. Also, they don't give the poor performer raises, hoping the person will find a better job and leave. Her raises and bonuses go to other team members who make up for her slack.
It isn't her supervisor's fault if he wasn't involved in hiring her. Also boss's upline makes staffing decisions.
It's a game of Poker in real life.
Yes. I worked FOR the government in my prior life (military but in a co military/ civilian job), and firing people was impossible - unless someone threatened to kill you. That happened to someone I know once!
Usually you tried to promote someone to where they were someone else's problem.
Hubby's company, I think, uses this method of not giving raises or telling people "there is no contract for you to work on", hoping they will leave. They've had a few bad hires. I'm not sure why some folks are really slow to fire, though I get you want to give people a chance.
We also had a number of bad hires - mostly middle-aged men - at that age, I've noticed that some people interview REALLY well but were not able to perform. We had an equal number of GOOD hires in that same category. The difference? People who were recommended by current employees were almost always (with one or two exceptions), top notch. People who we got from "outside" it was hit or miss.
One of my bosses was the first guy to actually fire someone. He went through the process of trying to get him to improve, and then basically said "do you want to be here? You aren't performing." Essentially convinced the guy to leave after his 1 year mark. As soon as that happened, the floodgates opened. The other VPs and directors said "wait, we can fire people?" And 1-2 others were let go. We had 3-4 others be let go later also (they hadn't even been hired yet, in fact some of them were hired to replace the first guy we let go.) BUT we aren't a government contractor.
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Recently started a cushy office job in gov't contracting. There's a coworker I really don't understand, let's call her Gwen.
- She's 32 with 2 kids - single, with shared custody of them with dad
- No degree
- High-level clearance
- Makes at least 85k, likely more.
Bonus: She freely admits she owes over 100k in legal fees from custody battles over her kids.
I think part of the answer is the high-level clearance - people with those can be hard to come by
(although if she has that much legal debt, she may be at risk of losing it).
Another question would be is the group fully staffed. It’s a bit contradictory to be asking for more people and at the same time firing people for non performance. When I first started working, the program I was on was transitioning from preliminary design phase to detail design phase, which means significantly growing the headcount. We had a lot of contractors, one of whom wasn’t productive and had a tendency to fall asleep at his desk. He had been that way for a few months... iirc the day we were considered fully staffed was the day our manager terminated his employment.
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Recently started a cushy office job in gov't contracting. There's a coworker I really don't understand, let's call her Gwen.
- She's 32 with 2 kids - single, with shared custody of them with dad
- No degree
- High-level clearance
- Makes at least 85k, likely more.
Bonus: She freely admits she owes over 100k in legal fees from custody battles over her kids.
I think part of the answer is the high-level clearance - people with those can be hard to come by
(although if she has that much legal debt, she may be at risk of losing it).
Technically, if you know of a reason that someone with a clearance is a security risk -- lots of debt they can't handle is one of them! -- it's your duty to report that to a security officer.
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I think part of the answer is the high-level clearance - people with those can be hard to come by
(although if she has that much legal debt, she may be at risk of losing it).
Another question would be is the group fully staffed. It’s a bit contradictory to be asking for more people and at the same time firing people for non performance. When I first started working, the program I was on was transitioning from preliminary design phase to detail design phase, which means significantly growing the headcount. We had a lot of contractors, one of whom wasn’t productive and had a tendency to fall asleep at his desk. He had been that way for a few months... iirc the day we were considered fully staffed was the day our manager terminated his employment.
Ding ding ding on both counts. Very insightful - you've clearly played this game before.
She had an even higher level clearance before, but let it lapse at this job "by accident" (her words). I don't know about her, but the difference in salary & recruiter interest before and after my own clearance was night and day. A job would have to offer me a LOT for me to let that lapse.
As for staffing, you're on the nose. Prior to myself and another PM joining, they'd gone through 3 PMs in about 8 months. Lest you think this job or the Senior PM is hellish and unfair:
- One just...stopped showing up after their first week.
- Another left a 1.5 months in for a different dream job.
- The third regularly watched Netflix at his cube right next to the boss, and seemed to have serious short term memory issues that made him unable to do his job.
For the insane 120k they pay, it's a cakewalk, and I'm kind of offended at how low the bar is for employee productivity for that kind of salary.
Keeping things remotely thread-related, by contrast the Senior PM is great, and we bonded early about Mint and proper budgeting. During slower periods I can often catch her tweaking personal finance things in Google Sheets.
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Technically, if you know of a reason that someone with a clearance is a security risk -- lots of debt they can't handle is one of them! -- it's your duty to report that to a security officer.
uhm, be careful how you phrase that. Lots of debt is just one "red flag" and that red flag will come out through regular scheduled background checks. That and other factors may lead to a deeper investigation.
If you KNOW of a reason that someone with a clearance is a security risk, then you report a breach. You don't report based on "oh, they have a lot of debt". Although, if you truly suspect and there are multiple red flags, then by all means, report.
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Technically, if you know of a reason that someone with a clearance is a security risk -- lots of debt they can't handle is one of them! -- it's your duty to report that to a security officer.
uhm, be careful how you phrase that. Lots of debt is just one "red flag" and that red flag will come out through regular scheduled background checks. That and other factors may lead to a deeper investigation.
If you KNOW of a reason that someone with a clearance is a security risk, then you report a breach. You don't report based on "oh, they have a lot of debt". Although, if you truly suspect and there are multiple red flags, then by all means, report.
Please note I did not say, "Lots of debt." I said, "Lots of debt they can't handle."
If you know they are drowning in debt they are a security risk. If they can handle that debt despite what they said or did that clued you into their problem, that will come out in the security review. If they can't, well, they can't and they *are* a security risk.
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Technically, if you know of a reason that someone with a clearance is a security risk -- lots of debt they can't handle is one of them! -- it's your duty to report that to a security officer.
uhm, be careful how you phrase that. Lots of debt is just one "red flag" and that red flag will come out through regular scheduled background checks. That and other factors may lead to a deeper investigation.
If you KNOW of a reason that someone with a clearance is a security risk, then you report a breach. You don't report based on "oh, they have a lot of debt". Although, if you truly suspect and there are multiple red flags, then by all means, report.
Please note I did not say, "Lots of debt." I said, "Lots of debt they can't handle."
If you know they are drowning in debt they are a security risk. If they can handle that debt despite what they said or did that clued you into their problem, that will come out in the security review. If they can't, well, they can't and they *are* a security risk.
This might count as a Mustacian Money Problem for me, but I prefer that people think I'm broke. That includes the people I work with. They all think that I'll "be working until noon on the day of my funeral." I suspect that at least some of them have caught on (because why would a broke person know exactly what the TSP max is and how much that is per paycheck?), but those who don't might do the math and wonder why someone making as much money as I do always seem broke.
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This might count as a Mustacian Money Problem for me, but I prefer that people think I'm broke. That includes the people I work with. They all think that I'll "be working until noon on the day of my funeral." I suspect that at least some of them have caught on (because why would a broke person know exactly what the TSP max is and how much that is per paycheck?), but those who don't might do the math and wonder why someone making as much money as I do always seem broke.
[/quote]
I think there's a difference between letting people assume you're broke and actively lamenting about how much you owe or talking about how much you spend (compared to what you make). I'm sure I appear broke to some people, and I don't discourage that. And according to Payroll, I'm the only one that reports it on the rare occasion that pay doesn't hit the bank by 9am on payday. If they want to think I'm checking because I don't have enough money for lunch, I let them.....but really it's because I want to move the money out of my chequing account and put it to work.
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I think part of the answer is the high-level clearance - people with those can be hard to come by
I carpooled for a couple of years with someone in the Washington, DC area with a high level security clearance. It was a bit over a year for her to get her security clearance, which was considered pretty standard for an employee of a government contractor. The contractor in question had to pay her full time salary for that whole year, while all she could work on was "make-work", since she didn't have the clearance yet. She also told me as soon as the clearance came through, she would start getting head hunted by other, similar companies, since they wouldn't have to pay her for that waiting year.
Sadly, no great stories to share from where I work, generally fairly responsible people with money I think. I did have a former boss I wondered about after he got laid off some years ago, he always bought "the most expensive" of anything because he didn't want to have to research it and he figured it was probably good quality. He had a darned good income, so maybe he could afford it, but I wonder about his savings. . .
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Recently started a cushy office job in gov't contracting. There's a coworker I really don't understand, let's call her Gwen.
- She's 32 with 2 kids - single, with shared custody of them with dad
- No degree
- High-level clearance
- Makes at least 85k, likely more.
Bonus: She freely admits she owes over 100k in legal fees from custody battles over her kids.
I think part of the answer is the high-level clearance - people with those can be hard to come by
(although if she has that much legal debt, she may be at risk of losing it).
Another question would be is the group fully staffed. It’s a bit contradictory to be asking for more people and at the same time firing people for non performance. When I first started working, the program I was on was transitioning from preliminary design phase to detail design phase, which means significantly growing the headcount. We had a lot of contractors, one of whom wasn’t productive and had a tendency to fall asleep at his desk. He had been that way for a few months... iirc the day we were considered fully staffed was the day our manager terminated his employment.
What level of clearance do you consider to be "high" and "hard to find"?
What are the levels, anyway?
Confidential - Secret - Top Secret? Is that it?
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What are the levels, anyway?
Confidential - Secret - Top Secret? Is that it?
Different agencies have somewhat different schemes.
The one I'm familiar with, used by DoD, is Secret, Top Secret, Top Secret - SCI (Secure, Compartmentalized Information).
A Top Secret - SCI, abbreviated TS-SCI, allows access to a specific set of information. So, the information about the existence of The Avengers' secret base might be TS-SCI. But someone who had that specific TS-SCI access would not also be automatically given access to information about a TS-SCI setup about a super-secret submarine base hidden in the Aral Sea. Each would have its own unique list of people authorized access to those particular groups of secrets.
There are three big red flags to watch for.
1) Evidence of anti-US political ideas or actions. Considering Trump to be kleptocrat and an ignoramus is not an example of an anti-US political idea. Neither is saying one disagrees with something the US has done. Sorry, no good example for this one, it's late and my mind went blank on it.
2) Serious money problems. People with serious money problems are prime targets to be bribed for classified information.
3) Something they do not want known. A married person having an affair is a prime target to be blackmailed. Being openly gay isn't a security risk, but being a closet gay is, because someone who doesn't want that info to be revealed can be blackmailed over it.
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In those 6 months, her work schedule for our 9-5 job is:
- Get in at 10
- On good days, "work" from 10-3, with an hour lunch
- On bad days, "work" from 10-11, then she's out of the office from 11-2:30
- 2:30 - 3 Eat lunch (always a local restaurant or Uber Eats) & chat with us
- Leave at 3.
Oh this hits close to home.
My company, like many, is in capital-preservation mode since we expect revenue to be down at least $2 million this year as a result of the coronavirus pandemic.
Budgets are being cut, a hiring freeze has been put in place, and the mood is just starting to turn for the worst.
This evening my boss' boss told me that my team's jobs are secure, apart from one - questions are being asked about her productivity.
I immediately named some things that this co-worker could take over for me, to justify her own salary and lighten my workload a little.
It was an instinctive, automatic urge to protect this co-worker, because we're the last two full-time members of a close-knit team that underwent drastic changes after the business was sold a year ago.
Unfortunately she believes in late starts, long lunches, and speaking her mind more than toeing the line (speaking your mind is fine if you have a strong track record and social capital to expend, which she does not).
She's also over 60 with a mortgage.
I want to save her job but it would be an enormous help if she could see the writing on the wall and was committed to saving it too!
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What are the levels, anyway?
Confidential - Secret - Top Secret? Is that it?
Different agencies have somewhat different schemes.
The one I'm familiar with, used by DoD, is Secret, Top Secret, Top Secret - SCI (Secure, Compartmentalized Information).
A Top Secret - SCI, abbreviated TS-SCI, allows access to a specific set of information. So, the information about the existence of The Avengers' secret base might be TS-SCI. But someone who had that specific TS-SCI access would not also be automatically given access to information about a TS-SCI setup about a super-secret submarine base hidden in the Aral Sea. Each would have its own unique list of people authorized access to those particular groups of secrets.
There are three big red flags to watch for.
1) Evidence of anti-US political ideas or actions. Considering Trump to be kleptocrat and an ignoramus is not an example of an anti-US political idea. Neither is saying one disagrees with something the US has done. Sorry, no good example for this one, it's late and my mind went blank on it.
2) Serious money problems. People with serious money problems are prime targets to be bribed for classified information.
3) Something they do not want known. A married person having an affair is a prime target to be blackmailed. Being openly gay isn't a security risk, but being a closet gay is, because someone who doesn't want that info to be revealed can be blackmailed over it.
Membership in hate groups or those presenting extremist political views (such as the violent overthrow of the government). Regularly posting related material on social media or talking about it in public.
#4 Expressing a little too much interest in classified material not important to your work. In addition to having a valid security clearance you also have to have a "need to know." I hold a TS-SCI, but there are programs in my office that are still none of my business. If I'm asking about those things too often, even if it appears to be out of idle curiosity, I should be watched because the next step might be trying to acquire that information on my own.
#5 Personal or social life issues. Private Manning had gender identity issues and caught all kinds of crap from his chain of command for being a bit odd socially and for not being a very good soldier. If you have concerns about someone's behavioral health and work ethic, it's not a good idea in those circumstances to let them have unsupervised and unfettered access to the entire Top Secret database.
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Membership in hate groups or those presenting extremist political views (such as the violent overthrow of the government). Regularly posting related material on social media or talking about it in public.
According to German police, you are a leftist extremist if you criticize police or billionaires for their actions.
Anyway, "extremist" is such a nice rubber band word. Everyone can be an extremist, but those who shed light on wrongdoings of the government generally are.
For example, if you are openly critisicizing that the US has a law that allows it's troops to "free" US soldiers from e.g. the International Criminal Court by means of an military attack on The Hague, you are likely to be a dangerous extremist with a file in some agency.
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Sad thing is that these days, the amount of interest you get on savings accounts makes it hardly worth the effort to move money back and forth for cash flow reasons. I usually just leave a bunch of money in the checking account and then when it gets too big transfer a bunch up to an investment account.
MMM World Problems MPP
FTFY - We already have a perfectly good term for that. They're called Mustachian People Problems, MPP's for short.
A long, long, time ago, in my pre-FIRE days, I was paid on straight commission. We were paid the previous month's commission on a monthly basis. Since the amount could vary wildly, I got used to living on the last month's paycheck, which was actually the month before that's earnings. Still with me? My game was to wait until i had accrued couple of checks worth of budgeted expeditures in my checking account, then sweep the excess into taxable investments. It prevented running out of month and nasty surprises if commissions dipped. I liked having everything set up on a monthly basis, except that we were required to submit separate expense reports weekly. I chose to just ignore those checks and let them accrue in the virtually zero-interest-paying checking account, the way @bostonjim does. Because, of course the company wouldn't let me direct the randomized* reimbursement checks into an investment account. "Who could afford to do that?" was always their response. MPP for sure.
*Because they processed our expenses seemingly at whim. Sometimes we got the reimbursement checks weekly, but usually they were quite lumpy. Gah, this is dredging up scum I thought I'd successfully repressed...time to move on before I break out in hives, lol.
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What are the levels, anyway?
Confidential - Secret - Top Secret? Is that it?
The one I'm familiar with, used by DoD, is Secret, Top Secret, Top Secret - SCI (Secure, Compartmentalized Information).
Sensitive Compartmented Information. Technically, SCI is a caveat rather than an actual level, so those levels would be Confidential, Secret, and Top Secret. Reference
Executive Order 13526.
--eta--
Section 1.2
--eta2--
They start with public trust, confidential, secret, TS, TS-SCI, Special Access, Yankee White.
SCI, SA, YW, etc are caveats and not levels of classification.
--eta3--
To answer Sword Guy if you hold those clearance (or other DoD or DoJ ones) you are given periodical reinvestigations every 5 years if nothing comes up before that that needs to be investigated. Usually someone's financials will be known long before that.
@spartana Just an FYI. They're moving away from PRs and towards a continuous evaluation system so red flags are identified earlier than the 5/10 year mark.
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[/quote]
Technically, if you know of a reason that someone with a clearance is a security risk -- lots of debt they can't handle is one of them! -- it's your duty to report that to a security officer.
uhm, be careful how you phrase that. Lots of debt is just one "red flag" and that red flag will come out through regular scheduled background checks. That and other factors may lead to a deeper investigation.
If you KNOW of a reason that someone with a clearance is a security risk, then you report a breach. You don't report based on "oh, they have a lot of debt". Although, if you truly suspect and there are multiple red flags, then by all means, report.
Please note I did not say, "Lots of debt." I said, "Lots of debt they can't handle."
If you know they are drowning in debt they are a security risk. If they can handle that debt despite what they said or did that clued you into their problem, that will come out in the security review. If they can't, well, they can't and they *are* a security risk.
Okay, @SwordGuy the "they can't handle" part makes your case for you. I am just concerned that some judgey person is going to look at co-workers and assume they know more about their financial situation than they do.
Here's the obligation to report financial problems (very broad and vague:
Any financial considerations that indicate an inability or an unwillingness to satisfy debts. Examples include:
Not meeting financial obligations, such as a mortgage foreclosure, bankruptcy, debt collections, charge-offs, or failure to pay State and Federal taxes;
Financial problems linked to gambling, drug abuse, alcoholism; or
Other financial issues.
What are the levels, anyway?
Confidential - Secret - Top Secret? Is that it?
They start with public trust, confidential, secret, TS, TS-SCI, Special Access, Yankee White.
Special Access programs come with a codeword designation. I've only been on one of those and I was brought in so quickly that I never had more than a "handshake" as a read-in. These ones can be so secret, that you can't even acknowledge their existence. So rather than saying "I'm not at liberty to discuss that", you have to actively lie about what you're doing or where you're going. That sucks even more than saying "sorry honey, I can't talk about my work". I honestly don't think people realize how draining it is to not be able to tell your loved ones what you do.
Yankee White - I think that's all White House stuff. Not my wheelhouse.
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I got read in to one where there was one place, and one place only, a very special place, where you could talk about it. Say one word about it anywhere else and you were violating security.
I also have a few stories that I can never tell. Fun stuff.
Well, it can be.
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Technically, if you know of a reason that someone with a clearance is a security risk -- lots of debt they can't handle is one of them! -- it's your duty to report that to a security officer.
uhm, be careful how you phrase that. Lots of debt is just one "red flag" and that red flag will come out through regular scheduled background checks. That and other factors may lead to a deeper investigation.
If you KNOW of a reason that someone with a clearance is a security risk, then you report a breach. You don't report based on "oh, they have a lot of debt". Although, if you truly suspect and there are multiple red flags, then by all means, report.
Please note I did not say, "Lots of debt." I said, "Lots of debt they can't handle."
If you know they are drowning in debt they are a security risk. If they can handle that debt despite what they said or did that clued you into their problem, that will come out in the security review. If they can't, well, they can't and they *are* a security risk.
Okay, @SwordGuy the "they can't handle" part makes your case for you. I am just concerned that some judgey person is going to look at co-workers and assume they know more about their financial situation than they do.
Here's the obligation to report financial problems (very broad and vague:
Any financial considerations that indicate an inability or an unwillingness to satisfy debts. Examples include:
Not meeting financial obligations, such as a mortgage foreclosure, bankruptcy, debt collections, charge-offs, or failure to pay State and Federal taxes;
Financial problems linked to gambling, drug abuse, alcoholism; or
Other financial issues.
What are the levels, anyway?
Confidential - Secret - Top Secret? Is that it?
They start with public trust, confidential, secret, TS, TS-SCI, Special Access, Yankee White.
Special Access programs come with a codeword designation. I've only been on one of those and I was brought in so quickly that I never had more than a "handshake" as a read-in. These ones can be so secret, that you can't even acknowledge their existence. So rather than saying "I'm not at liberty to discuss that", you have to actively lie about what you're doing or where you're going. That sucks even more than saying "sorry honey, I can't talk about my work". I honestly don't think people realize how draining it is to not be able to tell your loved ones what you do.
Yankee White - I think that's all White House stuff. Not my wheelhouse.
The Department of Energy has (had?) 5 clearance levels. Q, Top Secret, L, Secret, Work Approval ie "0".
The letter clearances correspond to the DOD clearances but add "Restricted Data" ie nuclear weapons info or access to special nuclear materials.
https://fas.org/sgp/classdoe.htm
I only had a "0"- read "zero"
When I was assigned to PUREX lab, I entered through the guardshack (razor wire, fully automatic weapons etc, my badge was physically touched).
I sat down at my desk, within 15 minutes, someone who hadn't seen me escorted in asked "are you allowed to be here"? My response was, "well the guards didn't shoot at me when I entered".
Everyone else had a Q, but most were in the process of being given L clearances, as "production" of special nuclear materials had ended.
The reporting requirements list included:
Unofficial contact with a (DOE) Sensitive Country
Arrests, detentions, convictions
Bankruptcy
Traffic Fines over 100 dollars - onsite tickets got close, but rarely over, as security did not want to deal with the fight for a reportable fine.
Foreign Travel, Official and separately, All Other
Name change
Theft or Misuse of Govt. property
Violations and Infractions
Vulnerabilities
All had separate phone #
I kept the 1992 paper that had this info, as it was the only place I've ever seen an emergency action of RUN on a safety brief. This was for the criticality alarm.
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Technically, if you know of a reason that someone with a clearance is a security risk -- lots of debt they can't handle is one of them! -- it's your duty to report that to a security officer.
uhm, be careful how you phrase that. Lots of debt is just one "red flag" and that red flag will come out through regular scheduled background checks. That and other factors may lead to a deeper investigation.
If you KNOW of a reason that someone with a clearance is a security risk, then you report a breach. You don't report based on "oh, they have a lot of debt". Although, if you truly suspect and there are multiple red flags, then by all means, report.
Please note I did not say, "Lots of debt." I said, "Lots of debt they can't handle."
If you know they are drowning in debt they are a security risk. If they can handle that debt despite what they said or did that clued you into their problem, that will come out in the security review. If they can't, well, they can't and they *are* a security risk.
Okay, @SwordGuy the "they can't handle" part makes your case for you. I am just concerned that some judgey person is going to look at co-workers and assume they know more about their financial situation than they do.
Here's the obligation to report financial problems (very broad and vague:
Any financial considerations that indicate an inability or an unwillingness to satisfy debts. Examples include:
Not meeting financial obligations, such as a mortgage foreclosure, bankruptcy, debt collections, charge-offs, or failure to pay State and Federal taxes;
Financial problems linked to gambling, drug abuse, alcoholism; or
Other financial issues.
What are the levels, anyway?
Confidential - Secret - Top Secret? Is that it?
They start with public trust, confidential, secret, TS, TS-SCI, Special Access, Yankee White.
Special Access programs come with a codeword designation. I've only been on one of those and I was brought in so quickly that I never had more than a "handshake" as a read-in. These ones can be so secret, that you can't even acknowledge their existence. So rather than saying "I'm not at liberty to discuss that", you have to actively lie about what you're doing or where you're going. That sucks even more than saying "sorry honey, I can't talk about my work". I honestly don't think people realize how draining it is to not be able to tell your loved ones what you do.
Yankee White - I think that's all White House stuff. Not my wheelhouse.
All the damn time. It's very rare I can tell my wife how my day actually went. My uncle did imagery analysis for the Air Force. All his wife would say is that he did "all that secret shit." I don't think she ever really knew the full story until after he retired.
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I got read in to one where there was one place, and one place only, a very special place, where you could talk about it. Say one word about it anywhere else and you were violating security.
I also have a few stories that I can never tell. Fun stuff.
Well, it can be.
In Germany if Representatives want to look at the top secret stuff, there is a special room. Nothign is allowed, no phone, no pencil. Eyes only in the literal sense. And of course they are not allowed to talk about what they read. And still have to judge and make laws based on this...
Anyway, there is of course also a watch person. And nothing else. And this person can kick you out of the room if he says you are not following the rules.
If you ever thought you, the voter, through your representatives, are the souvereign, then remember that there is a person who can stop everyone accessing material about life threatening dangers.
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I got read in to one where there was one place, and one place only, a very special place, where you could talk about it. Say one word about it anywhere else and you were violating security.
I also have a few stories that I can never tell. Fun stuff.
Well, it can be.
In Germany if Representatives want to look at the top secret stuff, there is a special room. Nothign is allowed, no phone, no pencil. Eyes only in the literal sense. And of course they are not allowed to talk about what they read. And still have to judge and make laws based on this...
Anyway, there is of course also a watch person. And nothing else. And this person can kick you out of the room if he says you are not following the rules.
If you ever thought you, the voter, through your representatives, are the souvereign, then remember that there is a person who can stop everyone accessing material about life threatening dangers.
And if they are seen to abuse that delegated authority the legislators will take it away from them or replace them. It's a fine line between the two needs.
Wise legislatures recognize that there are some things they will be collectively bad at and set up systems to remove themselves from temptation. In this case, the temptation to release info to the public for personal gain that would harm the nation.
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Sorry to interrupt the fascinating classified discussion but I finally have something to contribute to the thread.
Yesterday our CEO and VP sent out mass emails about our company’s stance on handling the corona virus. They played it off as no big deal, not as bad as the flu, everyone wash your hands and wipe down surfaces regularly and if we just heed our parents advice of being sensible and staying clean then we will all be fine. Oh, and go get a flu shot if you haven’t already because that will help tremendously! Then they ended the emails with quotes from Fox News.
I work in a hotel with a bar and restaurant that caters to wealthy retirees of a certain age. I think I might put in for my PTO today.
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I work in financial services. Pretty much everything we do is tied to that stock market thingy. All the office kitchens have a TV broadcasting financial news, and no they won't give us the remote so you can watch something else. You'd be surprised how often that comes up, but I digress.
I was setting up for a meeting, and had just walked through the kitchen to grab some supplies, when I saw the ticker at the bottom of the screen that the DJIA had just dipped into correction territory. When I walked into the conference room, I announced to the people in the room, also prepping for the meeting, that it's official, the Dow was in correction territory. One person asked, what does that mean? And everyone else stopped to listen. By the time I was done, I had explained WHAT the Dow was, and that the S&P hadn't slipped into correction territory just yet, but it was likely inevitable at that point. I was shocked at how little everyone knew, when it's kinda of our business to know!
Earlier this week, an e-mail went out. HR is changing our time card system, and at the same time, they'll be shifting us over, in August, from a 24 pay period cycle to a 26 pay period cycle. We'll also be paid 2 weeks in arrears, whereas now, our payday actually includes the day we haven't worked yet (get paid on the 15th AM, for the pay period ending the 15th). So, our paychecks will be smaller, and we'll probably have to go a long period without a check. Stay tuned for mass pandemonium and confusion!
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Sorry to interrupt the fascinating classified discussion but I finally have something to contribute to the thread.
Yesterday our CEO and VP sent out mass emails about our company’s stance on handling the corona virus. They played it off as no big deal, not as bad as the flu, everyone wash your hands and wipe down surfaces regularly and if we just heed our parents advice of being sensible and staying clean then we will all be fine. Oh, and go get a flu shot if you haven’t already because that will help tremendously! Then they ended the emails with quotes from Fox News.
I work in a hotel with a bar and restaurant that caters to wealthy retirees of a certain age. I think I might put in for my PTO today.
Jaw dropping
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Sorry to interrupt the fascinating classified discussion but I finally have something to contribute to the thread.
Yesterday our CEO and VP sent out mass emails about our company’s stance on handling the corona virus. They played it off as no big deal, not as bad as the flu, everyone wash your hands and wipe down surfaces regularly and if we just heed our parents advice of being sensible and staying clean then we will all be fine. Oh, and go get a flu shot if you haven’t already because that will help tremendously! Then they ended the emails with quotes from Fox News.
I work in a hotel with a bar and restaurant that caters to wealthy retirees of a certain age. I think I might put in for my PTO today.
Wow. Even the guy who keeps posting "its a hoax" memes on FB (love the one that rearranges the dates for previous pandemics, don't you?) cancelled a meeting when push came to shove.
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I work in financial services. Pretty much everything we do is tied to that stock market thingy. All the office kitchens have a TV broadcasting financial news, and no they won't give us the remote so you can watch something else. You'd be surprised how often that comes up, but I digress.
I was setting up for a meeting, and had just walked through the kitchen to grab some supplies, when I saw the ticker at the bottom of the screen that the DJIA had just dipped into correction territory. When I walked into the conference room, I announced to the people in the room, also prepping for the meeting, that it's official, the Dow was in correction territory. One person asked, what does that mean? And everyone else stopped to listen. By the time I was done, I had explained WHAT the Dow was, and that the S&P hadn't slipped into correction territory just yet, but it was likely inevitable at that point. I was shocked at how little everyone knew, when it's kinda of our business to know!
Earlier this week, an e-mail went out. HR is changing our time card system, and at the same time, they'll be shifting us over, in August, from a 24 pay period cycle to a 26 pay period cycle. We'll also be paid 2 weeks in arrears, whereas now, our payday actually includes the day we haven't worked yet (get paid on the 15th AM, for the pay period ending the 15th). So, our paychecks will be smaller, and we'll probably have to go a long period without a check. Stay tuned for mass pandemonium and confusion!
The transition from 24 pay periods to 26 can go pretty smoothly if done right. For example, time it to start the smaller 2-week paycheck (instead of half-month) during a month with three paychecks. But it's strange that your current pay period ends on day of payment and they'll be moving you to two weeks in arrears. We were one week in arrears at 24/year, and stayed at one week when we went to 26/year. No major complaints, just kind annoying that it messes up my monthly income graph.
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I work in financial services. Pretty much everything we do is tied to that stock market thingy. All the office kitchens have a TV broadcasting financial news, and no they won't give us the remote so you can watch something else. You'd be surprised how often that comes up, but I digress.
I was setting up for a meeting, and had just walked through the kitchen to grab some supplies, when I saw the ticker at the bottom of the screen that the DJIA had just dipped into correction territory. When I walked into the conference room, I announced to the people in the room, also prepping for the meeting, that it's official, the Dow was in correction territory. One person asked, what does that mean? And everyone else stopped to listen. By the time I was done, I had explained WHAT the Dow was, and that the S&P hadn't slipped into correction territory just yet, but it was likely inevitable at that point. I was shocked at how little everyone knew, when it's kinda of our business to know!
Earlier this week, an e-mail went out. HR is changing our time card system, and at the same time, they'll be shifting us over, in August, from a 24 pay period cycle to a 26 pay period cycle. We'll also be paid 2 weeks in arrears, whereas now, our payday actually includes the day we haven't worked yet (get paid on the 15th AM, for the pay period ending the 15th). So, our paychecks will be smaller, and we'll probably have to go a long period without a check. Stay tuned for mass pandemonium and confusion!
The transition from 24 pay periods to 26 can go pretty smoothly if done right. For example, time it to start the smaller 2-week paycheck (instead of half-month) during a month with three paychecks. But it's strange that your current pay period ends on day of payment and they'll be moving you to two weeks in arrears. We were one week in arrears at 24/year, and stayed at one week when we went to 26/year. No major complaints, just kind annoying that it messes up my monthly income graph.
No biggie. Just change your spreadsheet to accrual accounting. Your liabilities probably already are if you pull your credit Card balances Into mint/etc
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Sorry to interrupt the fascinating classified discussion but I finally have something to contribute to the thread.
Yesterday our CEO and VP sent out mass emails about our company’s stance on handling the corona virus. They played it off as no big deal, not as bad as the flu, everyone wash your hands and wipe down surfaces regularly and if we just heed our parents advice of being sensible and staying clean then we will all be fine. Oh, and go get a flu shot if you haven’t already because that will help tremendously! Then they ended the emails with quotes from Fox News.
I work in a hotel with a bar and restaurant that caters to wealthy retirees of a certain age. I think I might put in for my PTO today.
Quotes? They didn't even have the brain to reformulate it?
Wait, if they had a working brain they would not watch Fox News.
So everyone is shutting down half of public life, but this risk-group company will be totally okay with a bit more hand washing?
I wonder if after employees are sick and a retiree dies, the company will be sued? Manslaughter by negligence, something on that line.
Maybe time to not only get paid leave, but a new job too?
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Re. the discussions of security clearances.
When I was in, we were told not to discuss what clearance we had so as to not make ourselves a juicy target. So people writing about what level they or their relatives had or have is raising some hairs. Is it really okay now to publish that info on a public forum?
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Re. the discussions of security clearances.
When I was in, we were told not to discuss what clearance we had so as to not make ourselves a juicy target. So people writing about what level they or their relatives had or have is raising some hairs. Is it really okay now to publish that info on a public forum?
Since all I ever had was a 0, I think I would be exempt from that "rule".
Depending on the subject, a few years time could make the classified knowledge irrelevant , but still not revealable. Some jobs have well known clearance level, so hiding it isn't that useful.
That being said, I remember that people were told to BIP (Badge In Pocket) in public. This could be difficult for those at the most secure facility, as they had extra, bulky and distinctive radiation detectors.
At least one personnel database at the Pentagon has been breached, as DW and I were told our info was at risk. We were part of a relative's background check.
The clearence level per se is probably less important than subject matter. - no reference available, just opinion.
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A couple of funny security related stories.
We got a contract to install video conferencing systems at Redstone. The systems were not secure but the transmission lines and some of the facilities were.
1) The most secure building I set up a system in required me to get cleared in through a locked entryway where the armed guards very carefully checked my ID to ensure I was pre-authorized to enter. Since I did not have a security clearance there were red lights flashing inside the building to alert everyone inside that I was in the facility and all classified documents must be locked up. I had a mandatory escort watching me at all times. Seemed pretty tight security to me. Then I asked where the equipment was that I needed to install. "Oh, it is out back on the loading dock." I was led to the back door, which was propped open with a rock! The smokers would duck out back when they wanted a drag and needed to be able to get back in easily........ Nobody seemed to care about the dichotomy between front and back door security.
2) Another system was installed in a secure conference room used by the top brass. Very secure, again with the armed guards watching us install the equipment. The entire room was a Faraday cage, no EMF allowed. In the middle of the install, my cell phone rang!........ This caused much hubbub and consternation. Several senior officers started asking pointed questions of me, the guards, and most pointedly the facility management staff.
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2) Another system was installed in a secure conference room used by the top brass. Very secure, again with the armed guards watching us install the equipment. The entire room was a Faraday cage, no EMF allowed. In the middle of the install, my cell phone rang!........ This caused much hubbub and consternation. Several senior officers started asking pointed questions of me, the guards, and most pointedly the facility management staff.
We just installed cell phone scanners in our building. They're so sensitive that sometimes they pick up blue tooth devices from the floor beneath us. That area isn't supposed to be secure and isn't a threat, but it's annoying when the device is announcing to nobody "Blue Tooth Detected!" It's hilarious when it happens and a random person is walking past it at the same moment though. We all know it gives false-positives so we give that poor guy a hard time.
Re. the discussions of security clearances.
When I was in, we were told not to discuss what clearance we had so as to not make ourselves a juicy target. So people writing about what level they or their relatives had or have is raising some hairs. Is it really okay now to publish that info on a public forum?
I've mentioned my clearance level and vague reference to the city where I live/work, but you don't know my full name or what it is I actually do. If I gave you anything else that could tie me by name to a specific program that would be stupid on my part. I've been to parts of the world on official travel where I was instructed to not wear a uniform or anything else that might easily identify me as American or US military (MMA shirts and camouflage backpacks being a favorite of this generation). I suppose I could pass for Russian or German until I open my mouth, but I get the sentiment. I attended a conference in Europe where we were supposed to maintain a low profile and when we got off the plane a taxi driver was standing there with a placard that said "Lieutenant Smith, Special Operations Command Europe." I never found the little twerp responsible for that, but I hope he and his boss has a little chat later.
Since all I ever had was a 0, I think I would be exempt from that "rule".
Depending on the subject, a few years time could make the classified knowledge irrelevant , but still not revealable. Some jobs have well known clearance level, so hiding it isn't that useful.
That being said, I remember that people were told to BIP (Badge In Pocket) in public. This could be difficult for those at the most secure facility, as they had extra, bulky and distinctive radiation detectors.
At least one personnel database at the Pentagon has been breached, as DW and I were told our info was at risk. We were part of a relative's background check.
The clearence level per se is probably less important than subject matter. - no reference available, just opinion.
I put my badge away as soon as I leave the building. I had to pull aside a soldier who wore her uniform to the mall, security badge still hanging around her neck.
My credit report and my SF 86 have been the property of hackers for over a decade thanks to OPM and the VA.
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1) The most secure building I set up a system in required me to get cleared in through a locked entryway where the armed guards very carefully checked my ID to ensure I was pre-authorized to enter. Since I did not have a security clearance there were red lights flashing inside the building to alert everyone inside that I was in the facility and all classified documents must be locked up. I had a mandatory escort watching me at all times. Seemed pretty tight security to me. Then I asked where the equipment was that I needed to install. "Oh, it is out back on the loading dock." I was led to the back door, which was propped open with a rock! The smokers would duck out back when they wanted a drag and needed to be able to get back in easily........ Nobody seemed to care about the dichotomy between front and back door security.
In this case I actually care less about the open door. I mean you must be fairly good friends to the grim reaper to run into a building with multiple armed guards everywhere.
But having sensible IT parked in the open where everyone could get malware on it that goes undetected for years?
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Co-Worker: (circa end-of-February) "I am out of the market, sold everything today, market it about to go to shit"
Me: (circa March 12th) "how does it feel to have call the top?"
Co-Worker: "Pretty good, I am lucky I got out when I did"
Me: "Are you buying back in soon? You know the old saying about having to time it right twice."
Co-Worker: "Don't need to, I spent most of it already. I probably wont invest again, just for the 401k match"
.... Think your doing it wrong !!
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1) The most secure building I set up a system in required me to get cleared in through a locked entryway where the armed guards very carefully checked my ID to ensure I was pre-authorized to enter. Since I did not have a security clearance there were red lights flashing inside the building to alert everyone inside that I was in the facility and all classified documents must be locked up. I had a mandatory escort watching me at all times. Seemed pretty tight security to me. Then I asked where the equipment was that I needed to install. "Oh, it is out back on the loading dock." I was led to the back door, which was propped open with a rock! The smokers would duck out back when they wanted a drag and needed to be able to get back in easily........ Nobody seemed to care about the dichotomy between front and back door security.
In this case I actually care less about the open door. I mean you must be fairly good friends to the grim reaper to run into a building with multiple armed guards everywhere.
But having sensible IT parked in the open where everyone could get malware on it that goes undetected for years?
I moved the equipment inside and installed it in the appropriate location. Re: the guards, I was there to do a job. Why should trained people carrying guns bother me?
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Co-Worker: (circa end-of-February) "I am out of the market, sold everything today, market it about to go to shit"
Me: (circa March 12th) "how does it feel to have call the top?"
Co-Worker: "Pretty good, I am lucky I got out when I did"
Me: "Are you buying back in soon? You know the old saying about having to time it right twice."
Co-Worker: "Don't need to, I spent most of it already. I probably wont invest again, just for the 401k match"
.... Think your doing it wrong !!
They timed their spending wrong. As the economy ranks there will be deals to be had on all kinds of consumer goods. At least in 2008 there was
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Co-Worker: (circa end-of-February) "I am out of the market, sold everything today, market it about to go to shit"
Me: (circa March 12th) "how does it feel to have call the top?"
Co-Worker: "Pretty good, I am lucky I got out when I did"
Me: "Are you buying back in soon? You know the old saying about having to time it right twice."
Co-Worker: "Don't need to, I spent most of it already. I probably wont invest again, just for the 401k match"
.... Think your doing it wrong !!
They timed their spending wrong. As the economy ranks there will be deals to be had on all kinds of consumer goods. At least in 2008 there was
I had a similar conversation:
Co-Worker: Got out of the market a month ago. I feel like a bit of a genius that I timed it right.
Me: The genius part will be when you decide to go back in.
Co-worker: I'm going to wait until it returns to the same value before putting it in again.
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The guys are watching Extreme Cheapskates. I have to keep my mouth shut because *some* of the things that they are talking about actually make sense to me (cutting open a toothpaste tube to get the last bit not taking leftovers from other people's table at a restaurant).
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The guys are watching Extreme Cheapskates. I have to keep my mouth shut because *some* of the things that they are talking about actually make sense to me (cutting open a toothpaste tube to get the last bit not taking leftovers from other people's table at a restaurant).
I’m not convinced. Somebody run the cost benefit analysis on the lost scissor longevity from cutting foil laminate
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The guys are watching Extreme Cheapskates. I have to keep my mouth shut because *some* of the things that they are talking about actually make sense to me (cutting open a toothpaste tube to get the last bit not taking leftovers from other people's table at a restaurant).
I’m not convinced. Somebody run the cost benefit analysis on the lost scissor longevity from cutting foil laminate
Obviously, you would use a tin snips for this, not your mom's best sewing scissors.
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The guys are watching Extreme Cheapskates. I have to keep my mouth shut because *some* of the things that they are talking about actually make sense to me (cutting open a toothpaste tube to get the last bit not taking leftovers from other people's table at a restaurant).
I’m not convinced. Somebody run the cost benefit analysis on the lost scissor longevity from cutting foil laminate
Obviously, you would use a tin snips for this, not your mom's best sewing scissors.
Probably best to use your toothpaste snips no?
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The guys are watching Extreme Cheapskates. I have to keep my mouth shut because *some* of the things that they are talking about actually make sense to me (cutting open a toothpaste tube to get the last bit not taking leftovers from other people's table at a restaurant).
I’m not convinced. Somebody run the cost benefit analysis on the lost scissor longevity from cutting foil laminate
Obviously, you would use a tin snips for this, not your mom's best sewing scissors.
Only after a thorough cleaning, right?
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Just finished a Town Hall on base and the question was raised "We have X housing units, and X assigned parking spaces. What do we do if we have two cars?" The garrison commander responded (in the most polite tone possible) "We don't have a parking problem, we have a walking problem." He then listed off over 100 additional parking spaces within a block of the apartment towers.
From the same commander just an hour ago...
We're tightening movement on the base due to an outbreak this week. He did a video inside the commissary showing that we have plenty of stock inside, then went outside and did a video where he expressed the following:
https://www.facebook.com/usaghumphreys/videos/573728460019089/ (https://www.facebook.com/usaghumphreys/videos/573728460019089/)
"Buy. Don't shop."
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Just finished a Town Hall on base and the question was raised "We have X housing units, and X assigned parking spaces. What do we do if we have two cars?" The garrison commander responded (in the most polite tone possible) "We don't have a parking problem, we have a walking problem." He then listed off over 100 additional parking spaces within a block of the apartment towers.
From the same commander just an hour ago...
We're tightening movement on the base due to an outbreak this week. He did a video inside the commissary showing that we have plenty of stock inside, then went outside and did a video where he expressed the following:
https://www.facebook.com/usaghumphreys/videos/573728460019089/ (https://www.facebook.com/usaghumphreys/videos/573728460019089/)
"Buy. Don't shop."
I like this guy, his delivery is spot on.
Thanks for sharing!
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Just finished a Town Hall on base and the question was raised "We have X housing units, and X assigned parking spaces. What do we do if we have two cars?" The garrison commander responded (in the most polite tone possible) "We don't have a parking problem, we have a walking problem." He then listed off over 100 additional parking spaces within a block of the apartment towers.
From the same commander just an hour ago...
We're tightening movement on the base due to an outbreak this week. He did a video inside the commissary showing that we have plenty of stock inside, then went outside and did a video where he expressed the following:
https://www.facebook.com/usaghumphreys/videos/573728460019089/ (https://www.facebook.com/usaghumphreys/videos/573728460019089/)
"Buy. Don't shop."
I like this guy, his delivery is spot on.
Thanks for sharing!
OMG, me too! Love this guy! Keep 'em coming.
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So I work for big state government and we're all wfh right now. Due to the start of the fiscal year falling on payday and the difficulty in the legislature passing a new budget while not being at the capital, our paychecks were 1 day late. I'm the second lowest paid person in my department and am an administrative assistant.
Most of the people in my office make in the high 5 or low 6 figures. Because I'm the admin assist I've been cc'd on all of the email with people raging about the fact that their paychecks were going to be a day late and how were they going to be able to pay their bills. I've worked with most of these people for 10 years. The majority have big homes and new cars, travel to cool places but can't make it with their paychecks one day late.
One of the supervisors reached out to me and asked me if I was going to be okay (which was very kind of them) but really didn't believe me that I'd be fine. I didn't have the heart to tell him that I could forgo my paycheck for the next 6 months without blinking an eye or having to sell stock. Our expenses are so low that our small emergency fund would last that long.
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So I work for big state government and we're all wfh right now. Due to the start of the fiscal year falling on payday and the difficulty in the legislature passing a new budget while not being at the capital, our paychecks were 1 day late. I'm the second lowest paid person in my department and am an administrative assistant.
Most of the people in my office make in the high 5 or low 6 figures. Because I'm the admin assist I've been cc'd on all of the email with people raging about the fact that their paychecks were going to be a day late and how were they going to be able to pay their bills. I've worked with most of these people for 10 years. The majority have big homes and new cars, travel to cool places but can't make it with their paychecks one day late.
One of the supervisors reached out to me and asked me if I was going to be okay (which was very kind of them) but really didn't believe me that I'd be fine. I didn't have the heart to tell him that I could forgo my paycheck for the next 6 months without blinking an eye or having to sell stock. Our expenses are so low that our small emergency fund would last that long.
Then your colleagues really wouldn’t survive my workplace, where your paycheck may arrive any time between the 20th and 31st of the month depending on how quickly the local bank and then the foreign bank processes your international wire transfer.
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A couple months ago, a coworker was talking about how she was not able to afford masks for her family because she had no money. This was at the height of the epidemic in China. She also could not afford flights out of the country.
Yesterday, she was posting on social media about going all the way to the other side of the city (taking a taxi instead of public transportation of course, due to the virus), and dropping a lot of money on transformers and pizza.
Sigh, I guess some people don’t learn from their mistakes.
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The guys are watching Extreme Cheapskates. I have to keep my mouth shut because *some* of the things that they are talking about actually make sense to me (cutting open a toothpaste tube to get the last bit not taking leftovers from other people's table at a restaurant).
I’m not convinced. Somebody run the cost benefit analysis on the lost scissor longevity from cutting foil laminate
Obviously, you would use a tin snips for this, not your mom's best sewing scissors.
Only after a thorough cleaning, right?
What? The cost of cleaning supplies will consume any toothpaste savings!
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A close friend has an office/warehouse next to a place that scraps junk cars. He was talking to the scrapyard owner and noticed he had an old Mercedes Benz sitting on concrete blocks that was idling. Turns out the guy tuned the engine to burn the used engine oil he gets out of the cars he is going to scrap. He just lets that old Benz run 24/7/365 burning used engine oil.
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A close friend has an office/warehouse next to a place that scraps junk cars. He was talking to the scrapyard owner and noticed he had an old Mercedes Benz sitting on concrete blocks that was idling. Turns out the guy tuned the engine to burn the used engine oil he gets out of the cars he is going to scrap. He just lets that old Benz run 24/7/365 burning used engine oil.
WTF?
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A close friend has an office/warehouse next to a place that scraps junk cars. He was talking to the scrapyard owner and noticed he had an old Mercedes Benz sitting on concrete blocks that was idling. Turns out the guy tuned the engine to burn the used engine oil he gets out of the cars he is going to scrap. He just lets that old Benz run 24/7/365 burning used engine oil.
You'd think there would be some small amount of money to be made, since used engine oil can be recycled and processed into all sorts of stuff, from new motor oil to fuel oil to gasoline, etc.
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A close friend has an office/warehouse next to a place that scraps junk cars. He was talking to the scrapyard owner and noticed he had an old Mercedes Benz sitting on concrete blocks that was idling. Turns out the guy tuned the engine to burn the used engine oil he gets out of the cars he is going to scrap. He just lets that old Benz run 24/7/365 burning used engine oil.
You'd think there would be some small amount of money to be made, since used engine oil can be recycled and processed into all sorts of stuff, from new motor oil to fuel oil to gasoline, etc.
Find some backyard metal casters who run oil-based furnaces. They are always on the look out for free oil.
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A close friend has an office/warehouse next to a place that scraps junk cars. He was talking to the scrapyard owner and noticed he had an old Mercedes Benz sitting on concrete blocks that was idling. Turns out the guy tuned the engine to burn the used engine oil he gets out of the cars he is going to scrap. He just lets that old Benz run 24/7/365 burning used engine oil.
You'd think there would be some small amount of money to be made, since used engine oil can be recycled and processed into all sorts of stuff, from new motor oil to fuel oil to gasoline, etc.
1. mount alternators to the benz oil burner
2. run a battery and some inverters off it
3. set up a crypto mining rig!
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A close friend has an office/warehouse next to a place that scraps junk cars. He was talking to the scrapyard owner and noticed he had an old Mercedes Benz sitting on concrete blocks that was idling. Turns out the guy tuned the engine to burn the used engine oil he gets out of the cars he is going to scrap. He just lets that old Benz run 24/7/365 burning used engine oil.
Holy Shit!
How much would you wager that this is illegal in more than one way?
Also I guess he doesn't have any neighbors?
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I asked another buddy of mine who owns a car scrap yard in a different state what he does with his used oil - he saves all of it and heats his house and shop with it in the winter.
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I asked another buddy of mine who owns a car scrap yard in a different state what he does with his used oil - he saves all of it and heats his house and shop with it in the winter.
Waste oil heat is pretty common here, but then heating oil (diesel) is common here as well.
Almost every jiffy-lube and shade-tree mechanic heats with waste oil.
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I asked another buddy of mine who owns a car scrap yard in a different state what he does with his used oil - he saves all of it and heats his house and shop with it in the winter.
Waste oil heat is pretty common here, but then heating oil (diesel) is common here as well.
Almost every jiffy-lube and shade-tree mechanic heats with waste oil.
I make fries with it!
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"It's getting hot out. Can't ride my bike anymore."
Wait, what?
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"It's getting hot out. Can't ride my bike anymore."
Wait, what?
And in the winter it’s too cold
And in the spring it’s too rainy
And don’t forget the windy windy fall time
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"It's getting hot out. Can't ride my bike anymore."
Wait, what?
And in the winter it’s too cold
And in the spring it’s too rainy
And don’t forget the windy windy fall time
I absolutely hated riding my bike during winter. I need a quality face mask that can easily come off when I get to the gate guard. Except for the rains, the weather is awesome right now. I have to admit to driving today though. I have to drive my car once a week to keep the battery from dying, and today's rainy day seemed appropriate. With the virus restricting the number of gates we've had open, riding my bike has been two or three times faster than driving because I get to use a separate entrance.
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"It's getting hot out. Can't ride my bike anymore."
Wait, what?
And in the winter it’s too cold
And in the spring it’s too rainy
And don’t forget the windy windy fall time
I absolutely hated riding my bike during winter. I need a quality face mask that can easily come off when I get to the gate guard. Except for the rains, the weather is awesome right now. I have to admit to driving today though. I have to drive my car once a week to keep the battery from dying, and today's rainy day seemed appropriate. With the virus restricting the number of gates we've had open, riding my bike has been two or three times faster than driving because I get to use a separate entrance.
I got a neoprene mask to wear when riding my motorcycle years ago. I haven't actually tried it on the bike (I'm one of those lazy bums who only ride when the weather is pleasant), but I bet it'd work well enough.
Mine is only for half the face, but something like this on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Tough-Headwear-Balaclava-Snowboarding-Motorcycling/dp/B01LE07NI6/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=neoprene+cold+weather+face+mask&qid=1589854410&sr=8-6) would probably be perfect.
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"It's getting hot out. Can't ride my bike anymore."
Wait, what?
And in the winter it’s too cold
And in the spring it’s too rainy
And don’t forget the windy windy fall time
I absolutely hated riding my bike during winter. I need a quality face mask that can easily come off when I get to the gate guard. Except for the rains, the weather is awesome right now. I have to admit to driving today though. I have to drive my car once a week to keep the battery from dying, and today's rainy day seemed appropriate. With the virus restricting the number of gates we've had open, riding my bike has been two or three times faster than driving because I get to use a separate entrance.
I got a neoprene mask to wear when riding my motorcycle years ago. I haven't actually tried it on the bike (I'm one of those lazy bums who only ride when the weather is pleasant), but I bet it'd work well enough.
Mine is only for half the face, but something like this on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Tough-Headwear-Balaclava-Snowboarding-Motorcycling/dp/B01LE07NI6/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=neoprene+cold+weather+face+mask&qid=1589854410&sr=8-6) would probably be perfect.
I have a cheap wool balaclava that barely keeps me warm and my nose just soaks the front of it by the time I get to my destination. If that thing is breathable and keeps my nose from running I'll jump right on it.
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"It's getting hot out. Can't ride my bike anymore."
Wait, what?
And in the winter it’s too cold
And in the spring it’s too rainy
And don’t forget the windy windy fall time
I absolutely hated riding my bike during winter. I need a quality face mask that can easily come off when I get to the gate guard. Except for the rains, the weather is awesome right now. I have to admit to driving today though. I have to drive my car once a week to keep the battery from dying, and today's rainy day seemed appropriate. With the virus restricting the number of gates we've had open, riding my bike has been two or three times faster than driving because I get to use a separate entrance.
I got a neoprene mask to wear when riding my motorcycle years ago. I haven't actually tried it on the bike (I'm one of those lazy bums who only ride when the weather is pleasant), but I bet it'd work well enough.
Mine is only for half the face, but something like this on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Tough-Headwear-Balaclava-Snowboarding-Motorcycling/dp/B01LE07NI6/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=neoprene+cold+weather+face+mask&qid=1589854410&sr=8-6) would probably be perfect.
I have a cheap wool balaclava that barely keeps me warm and my nose just soaks the front of it by the time I get to my destination. If that thing is breathable and keeps my nose from running I'll jump right on it.
I don't remember my nose running, but my sunglasses did often fog up when I wasn't moving with my current one. I ended up holding my breath at red lights and stop signs.
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Most people that I work with have no idea the basic way that investing in a 401k or investing in general works. Here is the short version of the conversation the other day.
Co-worker: I got out after losing 5k in March and no longer put anything into my 401k.
Me: I stayed in, kept my paycheck 401k deduction the same, and I am back up to where I was before the market started to tank in late Feb.
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Most people that I work with have no idea the basic way that investing in a 401k or investing in general works. Here is the short version of the conversation the other day.
Co-worker: I got out after losing 5k in March and no longer put anything into my 401k.
Me: I stayed in, kept my paycheck 401k deduction the same, and I am back up to where I was before the market started to tank in late Feb.
I’ve had the same conversation in the past. It makes me want to slam my head against the wall.
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Most people that I work with have no idea the basic way that investing in a 401k or investing in general works. Here is the short version of the conversation the other day.
Co-worker: I got out after losing 5k in March and no longer put anything into my 401k.
Me: I stayed in, kept my paycheck 401k deduction the same, and I am back up to where I was before the market started to tank in late Feb.
I’ve had the same conversation in the past. It makes me want to slam my head against the wall.
At this point my standard reply for everyone except my closest coworkers who know better is "Oh, I haven't really been paying attention."
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Coworker just told us that his wife just traded her less-than-two-year-old Google Pixel 3 for a Samsung s20.
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Coworker just told us that his wife just traded her less-than-two-year-old Google Pixel 3 for a Samsung s20.
Wait, they're up to 20 now? I just replaced DW's S5.
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Coworker just told us that his wife just traded her less-than-two-year-old Google Pixel 3 for a Samsung s20.
Wait, they're up to 20 now? I just replaced DW's S5.
I think they skipped from S10 to S20. Dunno what was wrong with S11.
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Coworker just told us that his wife just traded her less-than-two-year-old Google Pixel 3 for a Samsung s20.
Wait, they're up to 20 now? I just replaced DW's S5.
I think they skipped from S10 to S20. Dunno what was wrong with S11.
I'm guessing they might be starting to just go with "model years." Like "this is the new 2027 Samsung" like cars. Honestly, it would keep things simple.
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Coworker just told us that his wife just traded her less-than-two-year-old Google Pixel 3 for a Samsung s20.
Wait, they're up to 20 now? I just replaced DW's S5.
I think they skipped from S10 to S20. Dunno what was wrong with S11.
I'm guessing they might be starting to just go with "model years." Like "this is the new 2027 Samsung" like cars. Honestly, it would keep things simple.
Or maybe a combination of that and trying to make people think they’re ten models behind so they “must” upgrade!
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I've spent a few years working with a "Spendy" co-worker. Leases cars, arranges for professional photo-shoots in foreign cities, etc. She recently started a new relationship, and I thought this new bf would have a good influence on her because he talks a lot about Dave Ramsey.
Well, Wednesday of this week, she tells me that boyfriend wants to get a motor home. They're quarantining together, and he sees right now as a "once in a lifetime" opportunity to work (remotely) while on the road. But to get the cash to pull off this deal, he's planning to borrow against his 401(K). She texted me a picture of the trailer.
On Thursday--literally the day after he bought the camper--boyfriend learned that he was being switched to hourly pay "without commission". He's heard about other situations where that's a prelude to job separation, which would make that 401(K) loan...awkward.
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On Thursday--literally the day after he bought the camper--boyfriend learned that he was being switched to hourly pay "without commission". He's heard about other situations where that's a prelude to job separation, which would make that 401(K) loan...awkward.
Ouch, that has to hurt. Even if he keeps his job, it doesn't seem like he's following Ramsey principles, so I wouldn't expect him to have too much of a positive influence on your co-worker.. Hopefully it will go better for them than it seems like it's going right now.
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On Thursday--literally the day after he bought the camper--boyfriend learned that he was being switched to hourly pay "without commission". He's heard about other situations where that's a prelude to job separation, which would make that 401(K) loan...awkward.
Ouch, that has to hurt. Even if he keeps his job, it doesn't seem like he's following Ramsey principles, so I wouldn't expect him to have too much of a positive influence on your co-worker.. Hopefully it will go better for them than it seems like it's going right now.
Funny thing, influence... it works both ways sometimes.
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Coworker just told us that his wife just traded her less-than-two-year-old Google Pixel 3 for a Samsung s20.
Wait, they're up to 20 now? I just replaced DW's S5.
I think they skipped from S10 to S20. Dunno what was wrong with S11.
I'm guessing they might be starting to just go with "model years." Like "this is the new 2027 Samsung" like cars. Honestly, it would keep things simple.
Except they had been releasing new version every 6-8 months, so they were catching up. Now they'll end up ahead. If the next is S30 I'm going to be really annoyed. Nvidia did same thing with video cards going from GTX 500,600,700,800m,900,1000, then 2000...I think there might be some unlucky numbers or something in the 11-19 range for Asian cultures? I love intuitive naming schemes that stick around for many years.
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I've spent a few years working with a "Spendy" co-worker. Leases cars, arranges for professional photo-shoots in foreign cities, etc. She recently started a new relationship, and I thought this new bf would have a good influence on her because he talks a lot about Dave Ramsey.
Well, Wednesday of this week, she tells me that boyfriend wants to get a motor home. They're quarantining together, and he sees right now as a "once in a lifetime" opportunity to work (remotely) while on the road. But to get the cash to pull off this deal, he's planning to borrow against his 401(K). She texted me a picture of the trailer.
On Thursday--literally the day after he bought the camper--boyfriend learned that he was being switched to hourly pay "without commission". He's heard about other situations where that's a prelude to job separation, which would make that 401(K) loan...awkward.
Hopefully he's in a state that allows a "cool-off" period after major purchases.
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Just traded communications, and it sounds like he's planning to keep the camper.
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Just traded communications, and it sounds like he's planning to keep the camper.
I'm sure he deserves it, with the extra stress. /Sarcasm
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Just traded communications, and it sounds like he's planning to keep the camper.
I had a co-worker tell me that she and her family were planning on buying a motorhome. Internally I cried a bit, but gave her the Thumbsup because I knew it wouldn't matter.
I have stopped telling co-workers that if our employer pulls any more shit "I'm gonna retire." Tired of having people argue that it's impossible.
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Due to travel bans, many of my expat coworkers have not been able to return to China. I found out today that some of them continue to:
- Run their AC and dehumidifier 24/7 = $200/month
- Pay their ayi to air out the house and dust and empty the dehumidifier = $1000/month
They are paying $1200/month to basically prevent mold from forming. The local way of preventing mold is to open all the windows to create air circulation. The day before you return, you send the ayi to do a full wipe down/cleaning. If you want to keep ayi employed out of compassion, you send ayi in everyday to clean and air things out, and you save yourself $200/month in electricity costs to cool an empty apartment.
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I was chatting with another ayi today who said the family she works for often buys very expensive groceries from the expat market, spending around $200 each time and purchasing several times per week. She then said that often, things will go bad and her job often entails cleaning out the fridge and throwing away things that have gone bad.
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I was chatting with another ayi today who said the family she works for often buys very expensive groceries from the expat market, spending around $200 each time and purchasing several times per week. She then said that often, things will go bad and her job often entails cleaning out the fridge and throwing away things that have gone bad.
That is one of the things I can never wrap my head around. WTH buy so much you are in constant danger of having to throw away things? Especially if you go shopping several times anyway.
I mean it can happen with some small rests of fresh produce or mini-leftovers where you don't find a reasonable way to use it, but I doubt that is meant.
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I was chatting with another ayi today who said the family she works for often buys very expensive groceries from the expat market, spending around $200 each time and purchasing several times per week. She then said that often, things will go bad and her job often entails cleaning out the fridge and throwing away things that have gone bad.
That is one of the things I can never wrap my head around. WTH buy so much you are in constant danger of having to throw away things? Especially if you go shopping several times anyway.
I mean it can happen with some small rests of fresh produce or mini-leftovers where you don't find a reasonable way to use it, but I doubt that is meant.
Oh, they don’t GO shopping. They pay a delivery fee to have the premium, imported groceries delivered to their door, and then they eventually let the food rot in the fridge.
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I was chatting with another ayi today who said the family she works for often buys very expensive groceries from the expat market, spending around $200 each time and purchasing several times per week. She then said that often, things will go bad and her job often entails cleaning out the fridge and throwing away things that have gone bad.
That is one of the things I can never wrap my head around. WTH buy so much you are in constant danger of having to throw away things? Especially if you go shopping several times anyway.
I mean it can happen with some small rests of fresh produce or mini-leftovers where you don't find a reasonable way to use it, but I doubt that is meant.
Oh, they dont GO shopping. They pay a delivery fee to have the premium, imported groceries delivered to their door, and then they eventually let the food rot in the fridge.
I am truly fascinated by this. What is going through their minds as they make these purchases?? Do they simply forget that they have food in the fridge already? Do they not know that food goes bad? Do they think, "Oh, I don't feel like eating that, so I'll buy something else" and they just don't care that they're wasting food & money?
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Just traded communications, and it sounds like he's planning to keep the camper.
Maybe he can live in it. Sell his house or move out of his apartment whatever the case... ;)
Re: dehumidifier. Some have internal pumps and empty themselves automatically if placed near a floor drain or sink.
I'd like to think they are being kind and employing their housekeeper out of compassion and loyalty.
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Ayi wages have improved since I was last in China! Glad to hear it.
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Years ago, when I was learning my first big boy job, a project manager was coaching me on a bad habit I had at the time.
PM: (Bad habit) is like going shopping, when you don't know what your credit limit is. You wouldn't do that, would you?
Me: What's a credit limit? (Asking honestly, I was young and didn't know things)
PM: WHAT? You ACTUALLY don't know your credit limit?
Me (concerned): Uhhh, no...is that important?
Then he told me all about how credit cards work and how important it is to find out my credit limit RIGHT NOW and make sure I never go over the limit on my credit card, or something REALLY BAD will happen. When I got back to my desk, I frantically checked my bank account online and couldn't find this credit limit thing anywhere so I called their customer service, where a nice lady patiently explained to clueless me that my debit card is not the same thing as a credit card.
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Years ago, when I was learning my first big boy job, a project manager was coaching me on a bad habit I had at the time.
PM: (Bad habit) is like going shopping, when you don't know what your credit limit is. You wouldn't do that, would you?
Me: What's a credit limit? (Asking honestly, I was young and didn't know things)
PM: WHAT? You ACTUALLY don't know your credit limit?
Me (concerned): Uhhh, no...is that important?
Then he told me all about how credit cards work and how important it is to find out my credit limit RIGHT NOW and make sure I never go over the limit on my credit card, or something REALLY BAD will happen. When I got back to my desk, I frantically checked my bank account online and couldn't find this credit limit thing anywhere so I called their customer service, where a nice lady patiently explained to clueless me that my debit card is not the same thing as a credit card.
LOL. Thanks for the laugh! It's ok, everyone starts out not knowing things. You clearly learned.
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Years ago, when I was learning my first big boy job, a project manager was coaching me on a bad habit I had at the time.
PM: (Bad habit) is like going shopping, when you don't know what your credit limit is. You wouldn't do that, would you?
Me: What's a credit limit? (Asking honestly, I was young and didn't know things)
PM: WHAT? You ACTUALLY don't know your credit limit?
Me (concerned): Uhhh, no...is that important?
Then he told me all about how credit cards work and how important it is to find out my credit limit RIGHT NOW and make sure I never go over the limit on my credit card, or something REALLY BAD will happen. When I got back to my desk, I frantically checked my bank account online and couldn't find this credit limit thing anywhere so I called their customer service, where a nice lady patiently explained to clueless me that my debit card is not the same thing as a credit card.
LOL. Thanks for the laugh! It's ok, everyone starts out not knowing things. You clearly learned.
Now imagine those lady having to do a talk like this ten times a day. Could make you lose all faith in humanity ;)
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Most debit cards do have daily spending limits, which is definitely something you would need to know before going shopping or REALLY BAD THINGS HAPPEN. Ok I guess you just get declined. But you need to know your account balance or REALLY BAD THINGS HAPPEN like overdraft fees
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Years ago, when I was learning my first big boy job, a project manager was coaching me on a bad habit I had at the time.
PM: (Bad habit) is like going shopping, when you don't know what your credit limit is. You wouldn't do that, would you?
Me: What's a credit limit? (Asking honestly, I was young and didn't know things)
PM: WHAT? You ACTUALLY don't know your credit limit?
Me (concerned): Uhhh, no...is that important?
Then he told me all about how credit cards work and how important it is to find out my credit limit RIGHT NOW and make sure I never go over the limit on my credit card, or something REALLY BAD will happen. When I got back to my desk, I frantically checked my bank account online and couldn't find this credit limit thing anywhere so I called their customer service, where a nice lady patiently explained to clueless me that my debit card is not the same thing as a credit card.
LOL. Thanks for the laugh! It's ok, everyone starts out not knowing things. You clearly learned.
Now imagine those lady having to do a talk like this ten times a day. Could make you lose all faith in humanity ;)
I've been that lady. Honestly as long as the caller didn't start screaming, I was happy to have that conversation all day long. The ones that make you lose faith in humanity are the ones who cannot take in new information and get abusive when you refuse to answer an illogical either-or question as a binary, e.g. following up an explanation of credit vs. debit with "You're either incompetent or a criminal, you can't or won't answer basic questions, DO YOU KNOW MY DEBIT CARD'S CREDIT LIMIT, YES or NO?" Bonus points if they're in some kind of prestige profession that would normally imply a functioning intellect.
Apologies to anybody who's worked phone service and just mentally flashed back through a montage of reasons you wanted to FIRE.
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The other day at work a coworker was sharing his story about how he somehow ended up paying some random stranger's phone bill; $50/month every month for 3 years before he noticed.
Everyone laughed about it and seemed to completely understand how easily someone could overlook a $50 monthly charge. I wonder how many people have hundreds or thousands of dollars a year draining out of their bank accounts to pay for services they don't even use, that they don't even realize they're paying for?
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"You're either incompetent or a criminal, you can't or won't answer basic questions, DO YOU KNOW MY DEBIT CARD'S CREDIT LIMIT, YES or NO?"
Wouldn't that be simply the credit limit of the underlying bank account?
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"You're either incompetent or a criminal, you can't or won't answer basic questions, DO YOU KNOW MY DEBIT CARD'S CREDIT LIMIT, YES or NO?"
Wouldn't that be simply the credit limit of the underlying bank account?
The answer is probably 0. No credit will be issued. But potentially the bank allows overdrafts and the overdraft limit could be considered a credit limit. But I'd just stick with 0.
On the other hand, Amex says they don't have credit limits. They evaluate every purchase for an approval decision. I'm sure they have some back-end metric that is a maximum allowable charge, but no rep will give that to you (you can, however, enter an amount you wish to charge on the website and it will give you a non-binding approval/denial).
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So today I heard that car parks in the area that I park in for work can be rented for $90 per month. A few of my colleagues have taken up this offer. The car parking area isn't large - from the very back of the lot to the front door of my workplace is about 2 minutes walk, max. The carparks near the workplace building are all reserved, and the $90 per month buys you one of those. However..... the carparks at the back of the lot aren't assigned to any building and are all freeeeeee...........
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The answer is probably 0. No credit will be issued. But potentially the bank allows overdrafts and the overdraft limit could be considered a credit limit. But I'd just stick with 0.
Really? In Germany (where CC usage is pretty low, compared to the US, but we are catching up), giro accounts (checking accounts) are very common to come with a line of credit, the so called Dispokredit. leo translates this to overdraft.
But it is definitely considered as credit. The interest is of course high (but with ~10% p.a. more reasonable than some credit cards).
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So today I heard that car parks in the area that I park in for work can be rented for $90 per month. A few of my colleagues have taken up this offer. The car parking area isn't large - from the very back of the lot to the front door of my workplace is about 2 minutes walk, max. The carparks near the workplace building are all reserved, and the $90 per month buys you one of those. However..... the carparks at the back of the lot aren't assigned to any building and are all freeeeeee...........
By my calculations, they are valuing their time at around $60/hour to save that short walk. Nuts.
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So today I heard that car parks in the area that I park in for work can be rented for $90 per month. A few of my colleagues have taken up this offer. The car parking area isn't large - from the very back of the lot to the front door of my workplace is about 2 minutes walk, max. The carparks near the workplace building are all reserved, and the $90 per month buys you one of those. However..... the carparks at the back of the lot aren't assigned to any building and are all freeeeeee...........
By my calculations, they are valuing their time at around $60/hour to save that short walk. Nuts.
And income gets taxed, and expenses come after taxes.
Plus it's physical exercise, so that "costs" half the time in my book.
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Due to travel bans, many of my expat coworkers have not been able to return to China. I found out today that some of them continue to:
- Run their AC and dehumidifier 24/7 = $200/month
- Pay their ayi to air out the house and dust and empty the dehumidifier = $1000/month
They are paying $1200/month to basically prevent mold from forming. The local way of preventing mold is to open all the windows to create air circulation. The day before you return, you send the ayi to do a full wipe down/cleaning. If you want to keep ayi employed out of compassion, you send ayi in everyday to clean and air things out, and you save yourself $200/month in electricity costs to cool an empty apartment.
I am sure my house will be a mess when I return.
Closed all windows, switched off power supply (except for refrigerator) as I left China for a 1 week vacation in mid-Jan.
5 months later, there are no signs of international flights starting from India.
I hope Covid situation in India will improve in Q4 2020.
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Due to travel bans, many of my expat coworkers have not been able to return to China. I found out today that some of them continue to:
- Run their AC and dehumidifier 24/7 = $200/month
- Pay their ayi to air out the house and dust and empty the dehumidifier = $1000/month
They are paying $1200/month to basically prevent mold from forming. The local way of preventing mold is to open all the windows to create air circulation. The day before you return, you send the ayi to do a full wipe down/cleaning. If you want to keep ayi employed out of compassion, you send ayi in everyday to clean and air things out, and you save yourself $200/month in electricity costs to cool an empty apartment.
I am sure my house will be a mess when I return.
Closed all windows, switched off power supply (except for refrigerator) as I left China for a 1 week vacation in mid-Jan.
5 months later, there are no signs of international flights starting from India.
I hope Covid situation in India will improve in Q4 2020.
Yikes. I just checked and there are flights in August flying to China from Mumbai with a layover in Japan. Most of the expats returning home after their contracts ended have been routed through multiple cities.
In other related anti-Mustachian news, several expats here have decided to charter their own plane to fly themselves and their families back to the states next month, as they have been unable to find commercial flights. The word on the street is that tickets will cost somewhere between $2K-$10k per person. It’s nice when you have money.
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Yikes. I just checked and there are flights in August flying to China from Mumbai with a layover in Japan. Most of the expats returning home after their contracts ended have been routed through multiple cities.
Airlines are taking bookings without any visibility when government will allow flights to be operational. When date of flight approach, airlines hand out a coupon saying you can travel on the said ticket anytime during the next 1 year (of course if price at that moment is higher you have to pay the difference, if price is lower you won't receive a refund). Few activists approached court and court advised airlines to extend coupon validity from 1 year to 2 years.
In Feb, I booked a crazy connecting flight flying through India-Sri Lanka-Malaysia-Hong Kong-China. Whenever flights are operational either I have to take this back breaking journey or say goodbye to USD 250 ticket. (most likely the latter)
In other related anti-Mustachian news, several expats here have decided to charter their own plane to fly themselves and their families back to the states next month, as they have been unable to find commercial flights. The word on the street is that tickets will cost somewhere between $2K-$10k per person. It’s nice when you have money.
Perhaps ticket cost is paid by their employer.
Several employers have an exorbitant support package for expats in China.
My employer provides following perks for expats in China (unfortunately I am a local hire with no benefits):
1. Rent is covered by employer. One can choose a house with bedrooms equal to number of family members plus one. My expat supervisor lives on an island. Employer pays rent USD ~55k per year.
2. Company car with a driver (USD ~40k per year)
3. Child education paid for in an international school (USD ~35k per year per child)
4. International health insurance (USD ~3k per year per family member)
5. One return ticket per year for entire family (most expats avail this benefit to return home during festive season)
6. 30 paid leaves per year additional to China statutory requirement
Kudos to you if you are an expat in China.
If house rent, commute, child education and health insurance is paid for, one can easily save 90+% of salary and give FIRE a solid boost.
-
Due to travel bans, many of my expat coworkers have not been able to return to China. I found out today that some of them continue to:
- Run their AC and dehumidifier 24/7 = $200/month
- Pay their ayi to air out the house and dust and empty the dehumidifier = $1000/month
They are paying $1200/month to basically prevent mold from forming. The local way of preventing mold is to open all the windows to create air circulation. The day before you return, you send the ayi to do a full wipe down/cleaning. If you want to keep ayi employed out of compassion, you send ayi in everyday to clean and air things out, and you save yourself $200/month in electricity costs to cool an empty apartment.
I am sure my house will be a mess when I return.
Closed all windows, switched off power supply (except for refrigerator) as I left China for a 1 week vacation in mid-Jan.
5 months later, there are no signs of international flights starting from India.
I hope Covid situation in India will improve in Q4 2020.
Yikes. I just checked and there are flights in August flying to China from Mumbai with a layover in Japan. Most of the expats returning home after their contracts ended have been routed through multiple cities.
In other related anti-Mustachian news, several expats here have decided to charter their own plane to fly themselves and their families back to the states next month, as they have been unable to find commercial flights. The word on the street is that tickets will cost somewhere between $2K-$10k per person. It’s nice when you have money.
It seems I managed to kill this thread with too much information.
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Or maybe everyone has been WFH and hasn't heard any good "Overheard at Work" stories lately.
I have one that happened last week. Some of my coworkers are organizing fun activities for expats who are staying in China over the summer. One of these activities is a tour of breakfast foods in Shanghai. A quick search online shows that the price per person for the tour is USD$75. They take you to try 10 different breakfast foods -- all of which I've tried already from the side of the street as they make great grab-and-go breakfast foods. However, the foods in total cost at most ~USD$15, even when you buy them from the priciest neighborhood in Shanghai.
I think I will be skipping this tour.
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Or maybe everyone has been WFH and hasn't heard any good "Overheard at Work" stories lately.
I have one that happened last week. Some of my coworkers are organizing fun activities for expats who are staying in China over the summer. One of these activities is a tour of breakfast foods in Shanghai. A quick search online shows that the price per person for the tour is USD$75. They take you to try 10 different breakfast foods -- all of which I've tried already from the side of the street as they make great grab-and-go breakfast foods. However, the foods in total cost at most ~USD$15, even when you buy them from the priciest neighborhood in Shanghai.
I think I will be skipping this tour.
I don't think the point of the tour is to get your belly filled.
Still that is a lot of money.
Regarding the overheard: Yes, I think so many are working in the home office that a lot is talked about. Like how super cheap that car on sale was, so I just got two in case one breaks down.
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May I bend the rules and talk about a neighbor of my parents?
Due to the restrictions, a retired neighbor of my parents said "It's weird with this isolation - I have so much money left each month. I don't know what to do? Should I give it away?".
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Well one of my coworkers just bought a used porches because it was a good deal at $28,000. And granted for the car it was a “good deal“ but they already have 4 cars for 4 people.
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It'd be interesting to see that driveway.
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Well one of my coworkers just bought a used porches because it was a good deal at $28,000. And granted for the car it was a “good deal“ but they already have 4 cars for 4 people.
Are they going to park the Porsche on one of the porches? (ducks and rolls....... )
I'm not normally a grammar nazi, honest, but I do one an example of a fine piece of Finnish car-making, a Porsche Boxster from Uusikaupunki .
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Yikes. I just checked and there are flights in August flying to China from Mumbai with a layover in Japan. Most of the expats returning home after their contracts ended have been routed through multiple cities.
Airlines are taking bookings without any visibility when government will allow flights to be operational. When date of flight approach, airlines hand out a coupon saying you can travel on the said ticket anytime during the next 1 year (of course if price at that moment is higher you have to pay the difference, if price is lower you won't receive a refund). Few activists approached court and court advised airlines to extend coupon validity from 1 year to 2 years.
In Feb, I booked a crazy connecting flight flying through India-Sri Lanka-Malaysia-Hong Kong-China. Whenever flights are operational either I have to take this back breaking journey or say goodbye to USD 250 ticket. (most likely the latter)
In other related anti-Mustachian news, several expats here have decided to charter their own plane to fly themselves and their families back to the states next month, as they have been unable to find commercial flights. The word on the street is that tickets will cost somewhere between $2K-$10k per person. It’s nice when you have money.
Perhaps ticket cost is paid by their employer.
Several employers have an exorbitant support package for expats in China.
My employer provides following perks for expats in China (unfortunately I am a local hire with no benefits):
1. Rent is covered by employer. One can choose a house with bedrooms equal to number of family members plus one. My expat supervisor lives on an island. Employer pays rent USD ~55k per year.
2. Company car with a driver (USD ~40k per year)
3. Child education paid for in an international school (USD ~35k per year per child)
4. International health insurance (USD ~3k per year per family member)
5. One return ticket per year for entire family (most expats avail this benefit to return home during festive season)
6. 30 paid leaves per year additional to China statutory requirement
Kudos to you if you are an expat in China.
If house rent, commute, child education and health insurance is paid for, one can easily save 90+% of salary and give FIRE a solid boost.
I’m curious what kind of jobs and companies have expat packages like that because wow... I have zero desire to go to China again but that is so generous I would be tempted.
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Well one of my coworkers just bought a used porches because it was a good deal at $28,000. And granted for the car it was a “good deal“ but they already have 4 cars for 4 people.
Are they going to park the Porsche on one of the porches? (ducks and rolls....... )
I'm not normally a grammar nazi, honest, but I do one an example of a fine piece of Finnish car-making, a Porsche Boxster from Uusikaupunki .
I admit, it took me a moment also. “Maybe they are adding on a deck?”
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Well one of my coworkers just bought a used porches because it was a good deal at $28,000. And granted for the car it was a “good deal“ but they already have 4 cars for 4 people.
Are they going to park the Porsche on one of the porches? (ducks and rolls....... )
I'm not normally a grammar nazi, honest, but I do one an example of a fine piece of Finnish car-making, a Porsche Boxster from Uusikaupunki .
I admit, it took me a moment also. “Maybe they are adding on a deck?”
It’s the sign of a true Mustachian who has no need of spelling luxury brands.
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Yikes. I just checked and there are flights in August flying to China from Mumbai with a layover in Japan. Most of the expats returning home after their contracts ended have been routed through multiple cities.
Airlines are taking bookings without any visibility when government will allow flights to be operational. When date of flight approach, airlines hand out a coupon saying you can travel on the said ticket anytime during the next 1 year (of course if price at that moment is higher you have to pay the difference, if price is lower you won't receive a refund). Few activists approached court and court advised airlines to extend coupon validity from 1 year to 2 years.
In Feb, I booked a crazy connecting flight flying through India-Sri Lanka-Malaysia-Hong Kong-China. Whenever flights are operational either I have to take this back breaking journey or say goodbye to USD 250 ticket. (most likely the latter)
In other related anti-Mustachian news, several expats here have decided to charter their own plane to fly themselves and their families back to the states next month, as they have been unable to find commercial flights. The word on the street is that tickets will cost somewhere between $2K-$10k per person. It’s nice when you have money.
Perhaps ticket cost is paid by their employer.
Several employers have an exorbitant support package for expats in China.
My employer provides following perks for expats in China (unfortunately I am a local hire with no benefits):
1. Rent is covered by employer. One can choose a house with bedrooms equal to number of family members plus one. My expat supervisor lives on an island. Employer pays rent USD ~55k per year.
2. Company car with a driver (USD ~40k per year)
3. Child education paid for in an international school (USD ~35k per year per child)
4. International health insurance (USD ~3k per year per family member)
5. One return ticket per year for entire family (most expats avail this benefit to return home during festive season)
6. 30 paid leaves per year additional to China statutory requirement
Kudos to you if you are an expat in China.
If house rent, commute, child education and health insurance is paid for, one can easily save 90+% of salary and give FIRE a solid boost.
I’m curious what kind of jobs and companies have expat packages like that because wow... I have zero desire to go to China again but that is so generous I would be tempted.
Almost all the MNCs have packages like that. Out of my circle of acquaintance...Ford, GM, Disney, major American hotel chains like Marriott, embassies and consulates, all the retail and investment banks like HSBC, major accounting firms, major law firms, big pharma...The return ticket is typically for business class seats. Some employers will also contribute to a retirement plan for you. The packages are easily worth $500k to $1M in salary and benefits.
Most of the people with the packages are in a leadership position, like General Manager, or head of a particular car parts division, etc. Many of them are engineers, esp. the ones in the car companies.
All the major international schools also offer the above package for their teachers, minus the car and driver. And they only cover economy class seats.
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Something minor... Co-worker is pregnant and now announced that she'll also get a boat.
But they're both making good money and thanks for being in Germany her job is still secure. But still... Not sure how intensive they'll use it.
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Well one of my coworkers just bought a used porches because it was a good deal at $28,000. And granted for the car it was a “good deal“ but they already have 4 cars for 4 people.
Are they going to park the Porsche on one of the porches? (ducks and rolls....... )
I'm not normally a grammar nazi, honest, but I do one an example of a fine piece of Finnish car-making, a Porsche Boxster from Uusikaupunki .
I admit, it took me a moment also. “Maybe they are adding on a deck?”
Stupid autocorrect. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
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Something minor... Co-worker is pregnant and now announced that she'll also get a boat.
But they're both making good money and thanks for being in Germany her job is still secure. But still... Not sure how intensive they'll use it.
Did she say how big of a boat? I wouldn't want something that needs a ton of maintenance while I had a newborn. On top of them being money pits. My dad just told me he's decided to downsize his boat, so that's great!
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Ha auto correct did that to me here the other day when I tried to write porsche. It was something about someone wanting a luxury Porsche but came out luxury porch. I left it because DAMN! Who doesn't want a luxury porch? I mean what better place for an early retiree to spent their day ranting at the young uns (who are probably older than you) to get the hell off their lawn from.
Ts ts, that just shows the inadequate commoner mind of the nouveau riche.
A luxury porch has an automated yelling machine so that the butler does not have to step out and confront the unsightly plebs!
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Ha auto correct did that to me here the other day when I tried to write porsche. It was something about someone wanting a luxury Porsche but came out luxury porch. I left it because DAMN! Who doesn't want a luxury porch? I mean what better place for an early retiree to spent their day ranting at the young uns (who are probably older than you) to get the hell off their lawn from.
Ts ts, that just shows the inadequate commoner mind of the nouveau riche.
A luxury porch has an automated yelling machine so that the butler does not have to step out and confront the unsightly plebs!
I guess I need a automated luxury porch to yell at people who don't pick up the dog poo.
We even have free, biodegradable doggy poo bags in a dispenser on a sidewalk corner of our property.
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We even have free, biodegradable doggy poo bags in a dispenser on a sidewalk corner of our property.
Ugh, I just got triggered remembering the last two weeks someone has been putting their dog poop in my can after collection. Not poop bags, poop wrapped in some kind of unenclosed plastic. I don't leave my cans out an unreasonable amount of time, but even so I think it's a bit rude to put even fully tied bags in someone's recently collected can (thereby allowing the smell to smoulder for an entire week... I don't have an issue tossing it in the night before collection). But on top of that these aren't even tied. Luckily I do have a dog and stick it in one of his poop bags and my can already gets a nice stinky must going all week. However, I feel bad for non-dog household who this culprit might terrorize. Sorry for the rant I just don't get people sometimes. Just use an actual bag! It's like someone got a sale on those little wax paper squares they use in the donut case.
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Actually speaking of the porch. My boss who can’t afford to max out his 401k is getting a $28,000 screened porch. The on I want but am not getting because it’s not in the budget since I max out my 401k.
I have to confess, I consoled myself with finally buying the Kayak I’ve been lusting after for 2 years. (I live less than a mile from a gorgeous flat water river that I saw a bald eagle on last week). It was not $28k
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I was working at a different location with a supervisor I wasn't familiar with. She spent most of the day trying to figure out why she hadn't gotten her stimulus check yet. Phone, email, the works. The rest of the day was spent talking about various fast food & fast casual food places where the employees know her by name, and her favorite orders from each because she doesn't cook and eats all of her meals out.
So I figured she spends more than $1,200 PER MONTH eating out, if she eats out every meal...But she was very upset that she hadn't gotten this one payment because she needed it to pay bills.
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~facepalm~
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I was working at a different location with a supervisor I wasn't familiar with. She spent most of the day trying to figure out why she hadn't gotten her stimulus check yet. Phone, email, the works. The rest of the day was spent talking about various fast food & fast casual food places where the employees know her by name, and her favorite orders from each because she doesn't cook and eats all of her meals out.
So I figured she spends more than $1,200 PER MONTH eating out, if she eats out every meal...But she was very upset that she hadn't gotten this one payment because she needed it to pay bills.
Ah yes, the classic "I can't afford the things I need but I still manage to buy the things I want" consumer.
I wish those people were the exception, but they seem to be the rule.
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Ah yes, the classic "I can't afford the things I need but because I still manage to buy the things I want" consumer.
FTFY
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Between the basic income stats reported by our gov't, the things people say and do with their money - I'm no longer surprised that a large percentage of people can't raise $400 on short notice or that median incomes are so low or that personal debt is so high. Delayed gratification is apparently a super power.
Way back at the beginning of DW and my personal finance education via MMM and other sources - we were frequently surprised. No as much lately.
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Between the basic income stats reported by our gov't, the things people say and do with their money - I'm no longer surprised that a large percentage of people can't raise $400 on short notice or that median incomes are so low or that personal debt is so high. Delayed gratification is apparently a super power.
Way back at the beginning of DW and my personal finance education via MMM and other sources - we were frequently surprised. No as much lately.
I sometimes (okay, often), think questions are slanted to evoke the response desired. If the question asked me "if you had an unexpected $400 charge, do you have enough in your chequing account to cover it", the answer is NO if I'm feeling very literal that day. They didn't ask me if I have a metric shit ton of money somewhere else, and a very decent pay cheque ever two weeks. Although, I do suspect that most people have to answer NO because they really don't have a spare $400 anywhere.....and that truly saddens me for society as a whole.
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Between the basic income stats reported by our gov't, the things people say and do with their money - I'm no longer surprised that a large percentage of people can't raise $400 on short notice or that median incomes are so low or that personal debt is so high. Delayed gratification is apparently a super power.
Way back at the beginning of DW and my personal finance education via MMM and other sources - we were frequently surprised. No as much lately.
I sometimes (okay, often), think questions are slanted to evoke the response desired. If the question asked me "if you had an unexpected $400 charge, do you have enough in your chequing account to cover it", the answer is NO if I'm feeling very literal that day. They didn't ask me if I have a metric shit ton of money somewhere else, and a very decent pay cheque ever two weeks. Although, I do suspect that most people have to answer NO because they really don't have a spare $400 anywhere.....and that truly saddens me for society as a whole.
Yep, that survey has been greatly misinterpreted.
From the Cato Institute (https://www.cato.org/blog/it-true-40-americans-cant-handle-400-emergency-expense-0):
The question was about how people would choose to pay a $400 “emergency expense” — not whether or not they could pay it out of savings (or checking) if they wanted to. Respondents were also free to choose more than one way of paying the extra $400 (“please selects all that apply”), so the answers add up 143% rather than 100%. Even if 100% said they could pay an extra $400 with cash, there could still be more than 40% who would choose a different method.
It turns out that 86% would pay cash or charge it and then pay off the bill at the next statement (many consumers autopay credit card bills from checking accounts). Some (11%) said they might borrow some or all of it from a friend or family member, but that probably means a spouse or parent in most cases (respondents included full‐time students).
From that, it looks like the actual number is 14%.
And if you're worried about source bias, Bloomberg had a similar article, but it's behind a paywall.
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Yep, that survey has been greatly misinterpreted.
From the Cato Institute (https://www.cato.org/blog/it-true-40-americans-cant-handle-400-emergency-expense-0):
thanks for the link.....I hadn't thought of that....If I was asked how I would pay for something, credit card is my go to choice because:
1) someone else's money for a month when paid off in full
2) convenient
3) points
4) ease of expense tracking - I download it every month
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You see very similar slant any time they talk about saving's rates. I have $0 in a savings account, why would I? But I'm not poor by any stretch of the imagination.
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This morning in the wall street journal an article said 59% of working age people don't have any money in a retirement account, and then later on in the article they said if families have savings at all, it is most often in a retirement account. Those statements put together show how dire the situation is. It doesn't surprise me at all though because I'm from a family where savings, especially retirement savings, are unheard of. The mindset is that retirement savings = social security, and you just plan on working until you can't possible work any longer and then dying.
Here's the article but it is behind the paywall.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/states-take-aim-at-people-with-no-retirement-plan-11593945474?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1
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This morning in the wall street journal an article said 59% of working age people don't have any money in a retirement account, and then later on in the article they said if families have savings at all, it is most often in a retirement account. Those statements put together show how dire the situation is. It doesn't surprise me at all though because I'm from a family where savings, especially retirement savings, are unheard of. The mindset is that retirement savings = social security, and you just plan on working until you can't possible work any longer and then dying.
Here's the article but it is behind the paywall.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/states-take-aim-at-people-with-no-retirement-plan-11593945474?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1
I'm genuinely interested in this topic so I went looking. I couldn't find a non-paywalled version of the article, nor was the actual source data from the National Institute on Retirement Security obvious. But I did find something similar (https://www.nirsonline.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Examining-the-Nest-Egg-Final-1.pdf) from NIRS, which maybe is the source data, which claims that 40% of over-60s only receive income from Social Security, not from pensions ("DB" or "Defined Benefit Plans") or 401k/403b/IRAs ("DC" or "Defined Contribution Plans"). Another NIRS tidbit (https://www.nirsonline.org/reports/financial-asset-inequality-and-its-implications-for-retirement-security/) is that among Boomers - who are approaching retirement age if not already there - the wealthiest 25% own a whopping 91% of the money, and the bottom 50% only own 2%.
If that's true then that really is devastating. Especially for the Boomers, who have no time left to "make up for it".
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@sherr - I’m on my iPad right now which doesn’t offer a print to pdf option, but if I remember when I’m on the laptop later I’ll try to make a pdf and send it to you. I was also able to pull up the study that value came from, but there is no way to share it on here, although the print to pdf might work there too.
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I’d really love to read it too, if it’s not too much trouble.
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I'm genuinely interested in this topic so I went looking. I couldn't find a non-paywalled version of the article, nor was the actual source data from the National Institute on Retirement Security obvious. But I did find something similar (https://www.nirsonline.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Examining-the-Nest-Egg-Final-1.pdf) from NIRS, which maybe is the source data, which claims that 40% of over-60s only receive income from Social Security, not from pensions ("DB" or "Defined Benefit Plans") or 401k/403b/IRAs ("DC" or "Defined Contribution Plans"). Another NIRS tidbit (https://www.nirsonline.org/reports/financial-asset-inequality-and-its-implications-for-retirement-security/) is that among Boomers - who are approaching retirement age if not already there - the wealthiest 25% own a whopping 91% of the money, and the bottom 50% only own 2%.
I wonder if the shift is because the bottom 50%, having started out with less, have expended more of their financial assets, while those who started out with more still haven't worked through it. E.g. if I start out with $2 and my friend starts off with $8, he has 80% of the money and I have 20%. If we both spend $2, now he has 100% of what's left. I guess I'm not sure if it should bother me to see that sort of shift.
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I'm genuinely interested in this topic so I went looking. I couldn't find a non-paywalled version of the article, nor was the actual source data from the National Institute on Retirement Security obvious. But I did find something similar (https://www.nirsonline.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Examining-the-Nest-Egg-Final-1.pdf) from NIRS, which maybe is the source data, which claims that 40% of over-60s only receive income from Social Security, not from pensions ("DB" or "Defined Benefit Plans") or 401k/403b/IRAs ("DC" or "Defined Contribution Plans"). Another NIRS tidbit (https://www.nirsonline.org/reports/financial-asset-inequality-and-its-implications-for-retirement-security/) is that among Boomers - who are approaching retirement age if not already there - the wealthiest 25% own a whopping 91% of the money, and the bottom 50% only own 2%.
I wonder if the shift is because the bottom 50%, having started out with less, have expended more of their financial assets, while those who started out with more still haven't worked through it. E.g. if I start out with $2 and my friend starts off with $8, he has 80% of the money and I have 20%. If we both spend $2, now he has 100% of what's left. I guess I'm not sure if it should bother me to see that sort of shift.
Even if that is the cause, running out of money 5 years into retirement and relying solely on SS is surely undesirable.
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This morning in the wall street journal an article said 59% of working age people don't have any money in a retirement account, and then later on in the article they said if families have savings at all, it is most often in a retirement account. Those statements put together show how dire the situation is. It doesn't surprise me at all though because I'm from a family where savings, especially retirement savings, are unheard of. The mindset is that retirement savings = social security, and you just plan on working until you can't possible work any longer and then dying.
Here's the article but it is behind the paywall.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/states-take-aim-at-people-with-no-retirement-plan-11593945474?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1
I'm genuinely interested in this topic so I went looking. I couldn't find a non-paywalled version of the article, nor was the actual source data from the National Institute on Retirement Security obvious.
Economista pointed out off-line that the source data is from this NIRS article (https://www.nirsonline.org/reports/retirement-in-america-out-of-reach-for-most-americans/), I didn't find it earlier because I didn't go back to 2018.
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I'm genuinely interested in this topic so I went looking. I couldn't find a non-paywalled version of the article, nor was the actual source data from the National Institute on Retirement Security obvious. But I did find something similar (https://www.nirsonline.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Examining-the-Nest-Egg-Final-1.pdf) from NIRS, which maybe is the source data, which claims that 40% of over-60s only receive income from Social Security, not from pensions ("DB" or "Defined Benefit Plans") or 401k/403b/IRAs ("DC" or "Defined Contribution Plans"). Another NIRS tidbit (https://www.nirsonline.org/reports/financial-asset-inequality-and-its-implications-for-retirement-security/) is that among Boomers - who are approaching retirement age if not already there - the wealthiest 25% own a whopping 91% of the money, and the bottom 50% only own 2%.
I wonder if the shift is because the bottom 50%, having started out with less, have expended more of their financial assets, while those who started out with more still haven't worked through it. E.g. if I start out with $2 and my friend starts off with $8, he has 80% of the money and I have 20%. If we both spend $2, now he has 100% of what's left. I guess I'm not sure if it should bother me to see that sort of shift.
Even if that is the cause, running out of money 5 years into retirement and relying solely on SS is surely undesirable.
Certainly it's undesirable, but it doesn't necessarily point to an injustice IMO. As much as it has metastasized into our culture, SS was never meant to be a sole source of support in retirement.
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I'm genuinely interested in this topic so I went looking. I couldn't find a non-paywalled version of the article, nor was the actual source data from the National Institute on Retirement Security obvious. But I did find something similar (https://www.nirsonline.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Examining-the-Nest-Egg-Final-1.pdf) from NIRS, which maybe is the source data, which claims that 40% of over-60s only receive income from Social Security, not from pensions ("DB" or "Defined Benefit Plans") or 401k/403b/IRAs ("DC" or "Defined Contribution Plans"). Another NIRS tidbit (https://www.nirsonline.org/reports/financial-asset-inequality-and-its-implications-for-retirement-security/) is that among Boomers - who are approaching retirement age if not already there - the wealthiest 25% own a whopping 91% of the money, and the bottom 50% only own 2%.
I wonder if the shift is because the bottom 50%, having started out with less, have expended more of their financial assets, while those who started out with more still haven't worked through it. E.g. if I start out with $2 and my friend starts off with $8, he has 80% of the money and I have 20%. If we both spend $2, now he has 100% of what's left. I guess I'm not sure if it should bother me to see that sort of shift.
Even if that is the cause, running out of money 5 years into retirement and relying solely on SS is surely undesirable.
Certainly it's undesirable, but it doesn't necessarily point to an injustice IMO. As much as it has metastasized into our culture, SS was never meant to be a sole source of support in retirement.
Yes, that's my point. SS was not meant to be the sole source of support in retirement. And if it is, for half of the people, then the current system is obviously broken and needs to be changed.
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I'm genuinely interested in this topic so I went looking. I couldn't find a non-paywalled version of the article, nor was the actual source data from the National Institute on Retirement Security obvious. But I did find something similar (https://www.nirsonline.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Examining-the-Nest-Egg-Final-1.pdf) from NIRS, which maybe is the source data, which claims that 40% of over-60s only receive income from Social Security, not from pensions ("DB" or "Defined Benefit Plans") or 401k/403b/IRAs ("DC" or "Defined Contribution Plans"). Another NIRS tidbit (https://www.nirsonline.org/reports/financial-asset-inequality-and-its-implications-for-retirement-security/) is that among Boomers - who are approaching retirement age if not already there - the wealthiest 25% own a whopping 91% of the money, and the bottom 50% only own 2%.
I wonder if the shift is because the bottom 50%, having started out with less, have expended more of their financial assets, while those who started out with more still haven't worked through it. E.g. if I start out with $2 and my friend starts off with $8, he has 80% of the money and I have 20%. If we both spend $2, now he has 100% of what's left. I guess I'm not sure if it should bother me to see that sort of shift.
Even if that is the cause, running out of money 5 years into retirement and relying solely on SS is surely undesirable.
Certainly it's undesirable, but it doesn't necessarily point to an injustice IMO. As much as it has metastasized into our culture, SS was never meant to be a sole source of support in retirement.
Yes, that's my point. SS was not meant to be the sole source of support in retirement. And if it is, for half of the people, then the current system is obviously broken and needs to be changed.
Or a lot of people are idiots who will sacrifice their future by spending every dollar they make now. Even when confronted with hard truths, they would rather blame the system than take responsibility for their own future.
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Or a lot of people are idiots who will sacrifice their future by spending every dollar they make now. Even when confronted with hard truths, they would rather blame the system than take responsibility for their own future.
I believe that a good system provides good outcomes for the majority of people, by definition. If it does not provide good outcomes for the majority of people, only for the, say, top 10% like you and me, then it's a bad system.
You can point to individual people and say that individual people should take more responsibility for their situation etc etc etc all day long, and I'd probably agree with you. But if most people are getting screwed, then it's not an individual problem, it's a systemic problem.
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Even if that is the cause, running out of money 5 years into retirement and relying solely on SS is surely undesirable.
Certainly it's undesirable, but it doesn't necessarily point to an injustice IMO. As much as it has metastasized into our culture, SS was never meant to be a sole source of support in retirement.
Yes, that's my point. SS was not meant to be the sole source of support in retirement. And if it is, for half of the people, then the current system is obviously broken and needs to be changed.
[/quote]If, by "the current system is obviously broken," you mean "decades of consumerism and well-intentioned but misguided expansions of social welfare have led half of baby boomers to abandon responsibility for their own retirement finances," then I agree. Instead of politicians promising that Uncle Sam will take care of you, let's instead make sure that people understand that SS *isn't* meant to support you. Sadly, that doesn't make for a very effective campaign slogan...
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If, by "the current system is obviously broken," you mean "decades of consumerism and well-intentioned but misguided expansions of social welfare have led half of baby boomers to abandon responsibility for their own retirement finances," then I agree. Instead of politicians promising that Uncle Sam will take care of you, let's instead make sure that people understand that SS *isn't* meant to support you. Sadly, that doesn't make for a very effective campaign slogan...
I'm legitimately curious what your actual practical suggestions are. Take SS away entirely and just tell people to "figure it out"?! Or... what exactly? There is a problem here that we both agree is a problem. What is your preferred solution?
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Not to mention that there is the simple but important bit that the current SS system (in various form over the countries) is also a product of the 1929 economy crisis.
For example, you could have saved as much as you wanted, if you suddenly pay in billions, your savings are worth less than the paper it's printed on. As long as your "security" is money based, it is risky.
That is why I like the much insulted German system. It is based on actual production. And let's face it, underproduction was not exactly a problem in the west for the last half century.
And telling people to figure it out... to know how well this works, just look at the people enthusiastic about how good a work Trump has done and that vaccines just make you sick.
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The system is in place for people to succeed. The old adage, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink," certainly applies.
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The system is in place for people to succeed. The old adage, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink," certainly applies.
It does not apply, because there are plenty of countries that do force their citizens to save for retirement in one way or another, and do solve this problem.
So you're saying that your preferred solution really is "take away SS and tell people to 'figure it out'"? Or is it that you don't have any solution, and just shrug and say "it is what it is" when presented with the problem?
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Think about those SS stats... They would likely include:
Spouses that worked but did not invest $$s in their own name.
People who have spent their savings, possibly by giving it away or having private care in later retirement, in order to be eligible for subsidized long term care.
People that have spent their savings because they have lived a very long time (over 85) and don't need a lot.
People that put their "savings" into a fully paid off home. This one is pretty common, and now just pull SS.
People that put their savings into a savings account, under the mattress, etc, and therefore don't show any income.
People that spent money on kids' education, weddings, kids home down payments, and in turn, rely on the kids to support them now. (Also more common than I had thought).
People that only ever made <$60k a year and had little left over while raising families, yet the SS amount now is more than enough.
Maximum SS is $3k a month. If you have a spouse, you could be getting more than this. With a paid off home, this is PLENTY. IMO even $2k/month with a paid off home and medicare is plenty.
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The system is in place for people to succeed. The old adage, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink," certainly applies.
It does not apply, because there are plenty of countries that do force their citizens to save for retirement in one way or another, and do solve this problem.
So you're saying that your preferred solution really is "take away SS and tell people to 'figure it out'"? Or is it that you don't have any solution, and just shrug and say "it is what it is" when presented with the problem?
Not everything requires a huge policy change. My solution would be to increase education. Make it required learning in high school. You can leave SS as it is, though I wouldn't complain if there were an opt-out option for people who'd rather invest that money and get a decent return on it.
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I think “should” is a bad policy premise. Regardless of whether people should be saving money or not, the simple fact is that many don’t/ we are hardwire to do poorly at delayed gratification and prioritize Now over Later. So given that the question in my mind is how to maximize the chance of a safe financial figure for the most people in the easiest way possible. Any time you fight against human nature you are either not going to be very successful (think of abstinence-only) education, or it will be difficult and expensive. So it has to be easy.
We have seen that making the default option for 401k participation be to participate increases how many people use the plan. Similarly the auto-increase option allows people to save more each year in retirement accounts without having to do anything. Make people’s naturel laziness work for you instead of against you. In this a default opt-in system like SS is great for most people because they don’t have to do anything and can’t mess it up too badly with their own short-sighted thinking. (“Borrowing against my retirement savings to buy that sweet boat is an awesome idea!”)
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The system is in place for people to succeed. The old adage, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink," certainly applies.
So what should the system do? Tax people more (European rate perhaps) and make SS a retirement solution?
I can imagine a conservative politician blowing that idea up 10 seconds later complaining about unfair higher taxes.
Ten seconds later the people that the changes are meant to help are promptly agreeing.
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The system is in place for people to succeed. The old adage, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink," certainly applies.
So what should the system do? Tax people more (European rate perhaps) and make SS a retirement solution?
I can imagine a conservative politician blowing that idea up 10 seconds later complaining about unfair higher taxes.
Ten seconds later the people that the changes are meant to help are promptly agreeing.
Neither party is going to allow significant changes to SS proposed by the other. Debating what the government should do with it is wasted energy. So what can the government do instead?
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I think the ACA mandate has shown us what the political establishment is capable of. And what the people meant to help might feel about the help.
The ACA needs some adjustments and polish but the intention is good. Too bad its been politicized so much.
The problem with 401K is that if there is a major recession (market collapse) then a portion of the population is in a tough place and may be drawing on their principle in short order. I knew of people in 2008 in this very situation. I think the solution whatever it would be needs to be more robust than the stock market.
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I think the ACA mandate has shown us what the political establishment is capable of. And what the people meant to help might feel about the help.
The ACA needs some adjustments and polish but the intention is good. Too bad its been politicized so much.
The problem with 401K is that if there is a major recession (market collapse) then a portion of the population is in a tough place and may be drawing on their principle in short order. I knew of people in 2008 in this very situation. I think the solution whatever it would be needs to be more robust than the stock market.
ACA itself is evidence of the failure of Washington. We needed universal healthcare, and all we could get, even when one political party controls both houses of congress and the presidency, is the ACA.
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If, by "the current system is obviously broken," you mean "decades of consumerism and well-intentioned but misguided expansions of social welfare have led half of baby boomers to abandon responsibility for their own retirement finances," then I agree. Instead of politicians promising that Uncle Sam will take care of you, let's instead make sure that people understand that SS *isn't* meant to support you. Sadly, that doesn't make for a very effective campaign slogan...
I'm legitimately curious what your actual practical suggestions are. Take SS away entirely and just tell people to "figure it out"?! Or... what exactly? There is a problem here that we both agree is a problem. What is your preferred solution?
Can you first define what you perceive the problem to be? I just want to make sure we're discussing the same thing. I've participated in too many discussions where the participants were talking past each other without realizing it :)
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If, by "the current system is obviously broken," you mean "decades of consumerism and well-intentioned but misguided expansions of social welfare have led half of baby boomers to abandon responsibility for their own retirement finances," then I agree. Instead of politicians promising that Uncle Sam will take care of you, let's instead make sure that people understand that SS *isn't* meant to support you. Sadly, that doesn't make for a very effective campaign slogan...
I'm legitimately curious what your actual practical suggestions are. Take SS away entirely and just tell people to "figure it out"?! Or... what exactly? There is a problem here that we both agree is a problem. What is your preferred solution?
Can you first define what you perceive the problem to be? I just want to make sure we're discussing the same thing. I've participated in too many discussions where the participants were talking past each other without realizing it :)
That roughly half of all Americans entering retirement apparently have no retirement savings and are completely dependent on Social Security.
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This morning in the wall street journal an article said 59% of working age people don't have any money in a retirement account, and then later on in the article they said if families have savings at all, it is most often in a retirement account. Those statements put together show how dire the situation is. It doesn't surprise me at all though because I'm from a family where savings, especially retirement savings, are unheard of. The mindset is that retirement savings = social security, and you just plan on working until you can't possible work any longer and then dying.
Here's the article but it is behind the paywall.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/states-take-aim-at-people-with-no-retirement-plan-11593945474?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1
I'm less familiar with the American SS program, but here in Canada, we have Old Age Security (OAS), which kicks in at age 65 for and pays approx $600 Cdn/month, or if that's all the income you have, then about $1200/month, including the Supplement. Try living on even 1200 a month here. It can be done, but it's a sparse kind of life. It was implemented in 1927, when most people didn't live long enough to collect it. I think the average life-span was about 64 then. So it was expected that you worked until you died. Now that life spans are much longer, the only logical step is to either have a laddered amount for deferring or mandated later starting date.
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This morning in the wall street journal an article said 59% of working age people don't have any money in a retirement account, and then later on in the article they said if families have savings at all, it is most often in a retirement account. Those statements put together show how dire the situation is. It doesn't surprise me at all though because I'm from a family where savings, especially retirement savings, are unheard of. The mindset is that retirement savings = social security, and you just plan on working until you can't possible work any longer and then dying.
Here's the article but it is behind the paywall.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/states-take-aim-at-people-with-no-retirement-plan-11593945474?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1
I'm less familiar with the American SS program, but here in Canada, we have Old Age Security (OAS), which kicks in at age 65 for and pays approx $600 Cdn/month, or if that's all the income you have, then about $1200/month, including the Supplement. Try living on even 1200 a month here. It can be done, but it's a sparse kind of life. It was implemented in 1927, when most people didn't live long enough to collect it. I think the average life-span was about 64 then. So it was expected that you worked until you died. Now that life spans are much longer, the only logical step is to either have a laddered amount for deferring or mandated later starting date.
Or increase the amount that's saved into the program...
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here in Canada, we have Old Age Security (OAS), which kicks in at age 65 for and pays approx $600 Cdn/month, or if that's all the income you have, then about $1200/month, including the Supplement. Try living on even 1200 a month here. It can be done, but it's a sparse kind of life. It was implemented in 1927, when most people didn't live long enough to collect it. I think the average life-span was about 64 then. So it was expected that you worked until you died. Now that life spans are much longer, the only logical step is to either have a laddered amount for deferring or mandated later starting date.
That number felt a little low, so I had a look... as far as I can tell, the minimum income a senior (65+) can get from the government is $1529 a month... see https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/old-age-security/payments/tab1-1.html (https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/old-age-security/payments/tab1-1.html). That assumes the person has spent their entire adult life in Canada, but never worked, never contributed to the Canada Pension Plan, and never had a spouse that worked or contributed. It's still not a lot of money, but it's fairly generous for somebody who didn't put any money in!
I'm happy to be corrected on this if I'm missing something... I do know, for example, that you have to apply separately for OAS, and many seniors aren't aware of that.
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This morning in the wall street journal an article said 59% of working age people don't have any money in a retirement account, and then later on in the article they said if families have savings at all, it is most often in a retirement account. Those statements put together show how dire the situation is. It doesn't surprise me at all though because I'm from a family where savings, especially retirement savings, are unheard of. The mindset is that retirement savings = social security, and you just plan on working until you can't possible work any longer and then dying.
Here's the article but it is behind the paywall.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/states-take-aim-at-people-with-no-retirement-plan-11593945474?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1
I'm less familiar with the American SS program, but here in Canada, we have Old Age Security (OAS), which kicks in at age 65 for and pays approx $600 Cdn/month, or if that's all the income you have, then about $1200/month, including the Supplement. Try living on even 1200 a month here. It can be done, but it's a sparse kind of life. It was implemented in 1927, when most people didn't live long enough to collect it. I think the average life-span was about 64 then. So it was expected that you worked until you died. Now that life spans are much longer, the only logical step is to either have a laddered amount for deferring or mandated later starting date.
Or increase the amount that's saved into the program...
OAS is a social security / welfare type program funded by general overhead and everyone's taxes, not a "pay into it" system like Canada Pension Plan.
In other words, there is no saving into the OAS / GIS program, it comes out of general revenues fresh each year.
Someone who never worked and who has lived in Canada 40 years after age 18 can get $1200/mo to live on, as a 65 yr old senior without other income, which is a lot more than the provincial welfare system gives someone who is 55 and technically able to work.
Canada Pension plan currently requires you to work and pay into it, (like SS), and maxes out payments at $1200/mo. The average person (due to working less or with far below average incomes) receives $900/mo.
Therefore, when combined with OAS, the average senior would get around CAD$1525/mo to live on, if no other pension plan or retirement savings. (Their spouse could get the same amount, if they also worked the average).
You can see why Canadians think that a SS system that pays out an average US$1500/mo, or US$2500/couple with the maximum payout double that number, seems just fine, especially if a paid off home is involved.
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This morning in the wall street journal an article said 59% of working age people don't have any money in a retirement account, and then later on in the article they said if families have savings at all, it is most often in a retirement account. Those statements put together show how dire the situation is. It doesn't surprise me at all though because I'm from a family where savings, especially retirement savings, are unheard of. The mindset is that retirement savings = social security, and you just plan on working until you can't possible work any longer and then dying.
Here's the article but it is behind the paywall.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/states-take-aim-at-people-with-no-retirement-plan-11593945474?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1
I'm less familiar with the American SS program, but here in Canada, we have Old Age Security (OAS), which kicks in at age 65 for and pays approx $600 Cdn/month, or if that's all the income you have, then about $1200/month, including the Supplement. Try living on even 1200 a month here. It can be done, but it's a sparse kind of life. It was implemented in 1927, when most people didn't live long enough to collect it. I think the average life-span was about 64 then. So it was expected that you worked until you died. Now that life spans are much longer, the only logical step is to either have a laddered amount for deferring or mandated later starting date.
Or increase the amount that's saved into the program...
Remembering that the production per worker is magnitude(s) higher then it was 100 years ago, it should be no problem.
But absolute and relative are two different political beasts.
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Can we please move the social security discussion to another thread, as has already been requested once before?
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Can we please move the social security discussion to another thread, as has already been requested once before?
I'd suggest we put the SS discussion in a black (orange) box, pack it it foam (to the extent that it isn't already) and watch it crash.
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Let’s move this thread back on topic.
Many of our friends are expat teachers, and this year, everyone is stuck in China because you can’t get back in if you leave (due to borders being closed). The solution to teacher boredom appears to be “spend spend spend!”
One coworker (who frequently talks about not having enough money to pay basic water/electricity/gas bills, which btw are relatively inexpensive in China, went on a USD$70 street food tour. (You can get the foods for $15 if you walk 15 minutes down the street from our neighborhood.) Another one saw an ad for a USD$1500 week-long tour. They didn’t want to travel with strangers though, so they asked a travel agent to arrange a private tour. Granted, this person is not struggling financially and can well afford it. Others are enjoying a five-star beach vacation in Sanya, which, while it sounds excessive, is actually not that bad — about USD$2000 for a family of four to stay at a five-star beachfront resort, including flights.
Individually, each of these trips are not bad. It’s when you hear of the coworker who does ALL the trips that your face starts to meet your palm.
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Can we please move the social security discussion to another thread, as has already been requested once before?
I'd suggest we put the SS discussion in a black (orange) box, pack it it foam (to the extent that it isn't already) and watch it crash.
Please move discussion of moving discussion to another thread to another thread. But keep original off-topic discussion right here.
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Please move discussion of moving discussion to another thread to another thread. But keep original off-topic discussion right here.
I will pretend the site has a "like" button and I will pretend I'm hitting it now.
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Can we please move the social security discussion to another thread, as has already been requested once before?
I'd suggest we put the SS discussion in a black (orange) box, pack it it foam (to the extent that it isn't already) and watch it crash.
Please move (discussion of (moving discussion to another thread)) to another thread. But keep original off-topic discussion right here.
Formula checks out
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Oh geez! What now - math? MATH on a finance forum? Get that out of here! ;)
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Instead of shockingly simple math, this is suddenly turning into a serious examination of the associative property of algebra...I'm in!
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My coworker has a broken air conditioning and instead of repairing it she turns it down and blows it as hard as she can. This costs her $500 in electricity bills a month.
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My coworker has a broken air conditioning and instead of repairing it she turns it down and blows it as hard as she can. This costs her $500 in electricity bills a month.
I don't even understand how many parts of this sentence I don't understand.
My best guess: She switched off the cooling and had the air-moving part run at max all the time, which somehow needs more electricity than the fans of a supercomputer?
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I read it as, the unit is broken, not cooling well but perhaps still cooling a little, so she turns the temperature down and turns the fan up. This makes the unit work harder which costs more.
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We just had a similar issue. Evaporator coil was leaking freon. The part (still under warranty) would have been about $650 plus another $650 or so for labor (not under warranty). At the minimum, she could refill the freon. Otherwise, the AC's motor is going to burn up, and that is going to be a much more expensive bill.
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I read it as, the unit is broken, not cooling well but perhaps still cooling a little, so she turns the temperature down and turns the fan up. This makes the unit work harder which costs more.
Eh.... you run something that is definitely broken in some way, which not only makes it likely to completely break down, costs you a lot of money, and also might be a high health risk too (gases, fire)??
EMERGENCY FACEPUNCHES PLEASE! WITH A BARBELL!
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Yeah the compressor will run continuously until it wrecks itself. That is the energy hog in an a/c unit.
Same as a person who hears a serious engine or transmission noise in their car but choose to drive it to destruction ensuring the maximum cost repair bill. Might have just required something little when they first heard the noise.
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I have one: the small business where I work employs a handful of engineers (expensive), and a bunch of people who assemble our products (at $10/hr). It's interesting to note that the engineers (and management) always bring a sack lunch, or leftovers, or fruit for lunch, while fast food, takeout, or Starbucks are a common sight down in the assembly area. The folks who can least afford it, it seems, are the ones who buy it most frequently.
It's also interesting that with the exception of one car, the owner of the business drives the least-valuable vehicle in the parking lot--an '03 Accord with >250k miles on it. I think I'm pretty close, though, with my '95 Corolla with 234k.
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I have one: the small business where I work employs a handful of engineers (expensive), and a bunch of people who assemble our products (at $10/hr). It's interesting to note that the engineers (and management) always bring a sack lunch, or leftovers, or fruit for lunch, while fast food, takeout, or Starbucks are a common sight down in the assembly area. The folks who can least afford it, it seems, are the ones who buy it most frequently.
Sad fact. Some of them may be working 2 jobs (with limited time away from a job) or don't have great access to a kitchen at the room they rent, so default to buying food.
Hopefully the others are in a situation where they don't have to pay for rent and have a TON of disposable income.
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I have one: the small business where I work employs a handful of engineers (expensive), and a bunch of people who assemble our products (at $10/hr). It's interesting to note that the engineers (and management) always bring a sack lunch, or leftovers, or fruit for lunch, while fast food, takeout, or Starbucks are a common sight down in the assembly area. The folks who can least afford it, it seems, are the ones who buy it most frequently.
Sad fact. Some of them may be working 2 jobs (with limited time away from a job) or don't have great access to a kitchen at the room they rent, so default to buying food.
Hopefully the others are in a situation where they don't have to pay for rent and have a TON of disposable income.
Yep when i was a clueless undergrad i'd spend $10/day on coffee--and didn't think twice about food court constantly. Out of touch. Also, it takes a certain type of person to take the increment and get enthused about it. 1% matters, $5 matters. It's pattern recognition which is, as we know, IQ.
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I have one: the small business where I work employs a handful of engineers (expensive), and a bunch of people who assemble our products (at $10/hr). It's interesting to note that the engineers (and management) always bring a sack lunch, or leftovers, or fruit for lunch, while fast food, takeout, or Starbucks are a common sight down in the assembly area. The folks who can least afford it, it seems, are the ones who buy it most frequently.
Sad fact. Some of them may be working 2 jobs (with limited time away from a job) or don't have great access to a kitchen at the room they rent, so default to buying food.
Hopefully the others are in a situation where they don't have to pay for rent and have a TON of disposable income.
When I was young and working two jobs (about a decade ago) there was a period where I was eating fastfood for lunch every day. I knew that wasn't the healthiest choice but it was the only thing I could buy close to work. But I didn't eat breakfast or dinner at home because when I got home I literally fell asleep and didn't wake up until 15 minutes before I had to leave again. Sometimes I'd grab a snack on the way from one job to the other. And at that time I had a kitchen and I absolutely knew how to cook frugally and from scratch. I was just too tired to stand up by the time I got home, let alone to cook, eat and do dishes afterwards.
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I remember working 80-100 hour weeks after high school. I usually only slept at my apartment.
However, I worked for a convenience store, so I got free coffee and fountain drinks, as well as any of the deli food that was about to be thrown out (after sitting for four hours in a warmer).
It was a pretty sweet deal.
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I remember working 80-100 hour weeks after high school. I usually only slept at my apartment.
However, I worked for a convenience store, so I got free coffee and fountain drinks, as well as any of the deli food that was about to be thrown out (after sitting for four hours in a warmer).
It was a pretty sweet deal.
Mr Imma had exactly that job, at that age that's a perfect job. He still eats dinner at work 4 times a week and while that's procentually not as big a deal as free food in a minimum wage job, it's still a sweet deal. It's one reason our grocery spending is so low.
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I have one: the small business where I work employs a handful of engineers (expensive), and a bunch of people who assemble our products (at $10/hr). It's interesting to note that the engineers (and management) always bring a sack lunch, or leftovers, or fruit for lunch, while fast food, takeout, or Starbucks are a common sight down in the assembly area. The folks who can least afford it, it seems, are the ones who buy it most frequently.
Sad fact. Some of them may be working 2 jobs (with limited time away from a job) or don't have great access to a kitchen at the room they rent, so default to buying food.
Hopefully the others are in a situation where they don't have to pay for rent and have a TON of disposable income.
I know many of them from a different social circle we share, so I know they have kitchens at home. Some are doing this job as a side gig, some are college or HS students. I know some are struggling financially, but I can't say for sure that they are the ones buying fast food.
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I’m guessing many of the lower paid employees didn’t go to college, but when I went, as a frugal, lunch packing adult it really made me sad how much younger students were pushed into the rat race lifestyle. They were scheduled full, forced into meal plans, marketed to heavily and kept so busy and stressed out that they didn’t have a whole lot of time for any kind of self care. So, of course they’re going to finish college barely knowing how to grocery shop, and with a strong habit of rushing through fast food for every meal because that is exactly what they were taught, and what was sold to them. Capitalism and our cultural norms sure set people up to be unhealthy and miserable.
There was also so much manufactured stress. All the professors would try to teach planning, would help students map out semester long projects and create work plans, but the admin and student life people would always be talking about “final stress!” And “all nighters!” And “Cramming!” And planned so many really unhelpful events and activities around those themes.
This just keep going at work now, heaven forbid we actually finish a project on time without rushing and working late.
Why is stress so desirable!?
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At my workplace--when we return--it will be interesting to see whether the 400-foot elevator ride to street level causes a lot of people to rediscover bringing lunch from home.
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At my workplace--when we return--it will be interesting to see whether the 400-foot elevator ride to street level causes a lot of people to rediscover bringing lunch from home.
I see a bungee jump opportunity here! :-)
I remember when I was young (1970's or so) and seeing a National Geographic of New Guinea guys doing a bungee jump (the tower flexed, not the vines to the feet) and thinking, that is a great idea for fun.
Fortunately, I had not hit terminal testosterone puberty yet, so I forgot about it until real bungee jumping became a thing.
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I have one: the small business where I work employs a handful of engineers (expensive), and a bunch of people who assemble our products (at $10/hr). It's interesting to note that the engineers (and management) always bring a sack lunch, or leftovers, or fruit for lunch, while fast food, takeout, or Starbucks are a common sight down in the assembly area. The folks who can least afford it, it seems, are the ones who buy it most frequently.
It's also interesting that with the exception of one car, the owner of the business drives the least-valuable vehicle in the parking lot--an '03 Accord with >250k miles on it. I think I'm pretty close, though, with my '95 Corolla with 234k.
My sister worked for a big defense contractor and it was the opposite. She said the almost all the engineers and executives ate every single meal out or did take-out including several Starbucks a day. The lower earners and tech generally brown bagged it.
This was my experience at my last company and this one too. At both, I started a trend of brown bagging it for many. I started eating in the lunch room (vs at my desk), so others joined me. At both places, people would dig at me for packing a lunch. Both times I told them the math of how much I saved. And more people started packing lunch.
I know many of them from a different social circle we share, so I know they have kitchens at home. Some are doing this job as a side gig, some are college or HS students. I know some are struggling financially, but I can't say for sure that they are the ones buying fast food.
When I was in my 20s/early 30s, I ate out SO MUCH. It was a social thing for me. I would not be surprised if this is the case.
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When I worked for a large defense contractor the food available on campus was uniformly awful and the drive out to anywhere with good food was too long to make it worthwhile more than occasionally. We were technically salaried but since we had to log all of our hours, an extra half an hour at lunch meant staying an extra half an hour at the end of the day. I learned quickly to pack my own lunch merely to save the time.
When I finally moved to Tech at the end of my career it was an amazing privilege to take a real and relaxing lunch break to eat good food with collègues. In the grand scheme of things the money the company spent feeding me free meals and snacks wasn’t big compared to salary and benefits, but it was huge for making me feel valued and wanting to stay there.
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E1 - "I would never buy a used house."
E2 - "I've never bought a used house."
Me on the other side of the wall... o_O
Used house? I've never heard anyone call a house a "Used House". I think of new houses as mostly contractor grade materials unless you have it built yourself.
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E1 - "I would never buy a used house."
E2 - "I've never bought a used house."
Me on the other side of the wall... o_O
Used house? I've never heard anyone call a house a "Used House". I think of new houses as mostly contractor grade materials unless you have it built yourself.
Wow, I was over 40 before I ever lived in a house built after I was born. And I probably would have made that forever if a hurricane hadn't wiped out my house.
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E1 - "I would never buy a used house."
E2 - "I've never bought a used house."
Me on the other side of the wall... o_O
Used house? I've never heard anyone call a house a "Used House". I think of new houses as mostly contractor grade materials unless you have it built yourself.
Wow, I was over 40 before I ever lived in a house built after I was born. And I probably would have made that forever if a hurricane hadn't wiped out my house.
I'm over 40 and still haven't lived in a house built after I was born. I don't get the obsession with new houses.
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To me a "used house" has benefits - all the contractor mistakes are worked out if you're lucky.
Or someone (maybe you) have spent the time to upgrade some of the materials.
Our old house received from us a hardwood floor (not engineered wood, solid wood), a new quality roof, and a quality HVAC system among other things.
Each was a quality step up from what was there.
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There's something to be said for new houses too, they're typically much more energy-efficient are more suited to modern conveniences; more power outlets in convenient places, maybe built-in speaker wires / ethernet, garages large enough for modern cars, etc.
But yes, the concept of a "used house" is very bizarre. What's next, complaining about "used land"?!
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"Used" houses are the best. My house was built a couple of years before I was born, so mid-70s.
The house is done settling. New houses are still settling and owners freak out when they see cracks on the exterior or interior.
We're looking for older homes which aren't in a HOA, and can renovate to the wife's designs, bring them up to code, install efficiency measures.
Having renovated our present home in 2018, we have a finer eye on the current newer homes on the market; materials and work are terrible but asking top shelf pricing. WTF.
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But yes, the concept of a "used house" is very bizarre. What's next, complaining about "used land"?!
Don't even get started on used water and used air... I told someone once the O2 they breathe was exhaled by a tree. They didn't believe me.
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But yes, the concept of a "used house" is very bizarre. What's next, complaining about "used land"?!
This is why I'm moving to Iceland. I need some new land, not this old, hand-me-down land I have now. I have my standards!
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Our house was new. That wasn't our plan when we set out looking for a house, but it was just as expensive per square foot as the used houses we were looking at and didn't have any items that needed fixed right off the bat or any upcoming major repairs.
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I am not sure she has said it out loud as a criteria, but I have a SIL who only buys new houses.
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I see alot of new houses with tiny garages. Like impossible to store two medium size vehicles.
Buy an older house built to store two 1970s land yacht cars and you've got space!
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I see alot of new houses with tiny garages. Like impossible to store two medium size vehicles.
Buy an older house built to store two 1970s land yacht cars and you've got space!
This is one of my pet peeves. Seriously, the incremental cost to the builder to make that garage actually usable (i.e. add four feet of width and three feet of depth) is negligible.
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I see alot of new houses with tiny garages. Like impossible to store two medium size vehicles.
Buy an older house built to store two 1970s land yacht cars and you've got space!
This is one of my pet peeves. Seriously, the incremental cost to the builder to make that garage actually usable (i.e. add four feet of width and three feet of depth) is negligible.
Snoutier Snout-Houses for the Win!
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I see alot of new houses with tiny garages. Like impossible to store two medium size vehicles.
Buy an older house built to store two 1970s land yacht cars and you've got space!
This is one of my pet peeves. Seriously, the incremental cost to the builder to make that garage actually usable (i.e. add four feet of width and three feet of depth) is negligible.
Snoutier Snout-Houses for the Win!
LOL, man, I hate those too. Hooray for making lots as narrow as possible, to minimize road per house! /s
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There's something to be said for new houses too, they're typically much more energy-efficient are more suited to modern conveniences; more power outlets in convenient places, maybe built-in speaker wires / ethernet, garages large enough for modern cars, etc.
But yes, the concept of a "used house" is very bizarre. What's next, complaining about "used land"?!
My house is from the 40s and I'm really happy with it. It's built with high quality materials and it's still in great shape and doesn't need a whole lot of maintenance. It's actually pretty energy efficient too - in the 40s people didn't have a lot of money to spend on heating and a/c didn't exist so homes were built to be cool in summer and warm in winter. A lot of older homes are much better insulated than properties from the 70s/80s.
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But yes, the concept of a "used house" is very bizarre. What's next, complaining about "used land"?!
Don't even get started on used water and used air... I told someone once the O2 they breathe was exhaled by a tree. They didn't believe me.
There is some probability that your last drink of water contained some H20 molecules peed by a frightened baby dinosaur when it saw a T-Rex coming at it.
(dimensional analysis, make-the-units-cancel problem from freshman year college chemistry class).
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Overheard people talking about how it's a great time to buy a new car.
CW1 "The dealerships are currently offering 84 months at 0% no payments for 180 days, so it's free money they are giving away!"
CW2 "Yeah, you can get way more car for your payments now that they price them out over 84 months"
I stayed out of the conversation, but in my mind I was thinking the price of the car must has been increased enough to offset the cost of no interest, plus I don't think they realise 84 months is 7 years payments to pay it off.
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Overheard people talking about how it's a great time to buy a new car.
CW1 "The dealerships are currently offering 84 months at 0% no payments for 180 days, so it's free money they are giving away!"
CW2 "Yeah, you can get way more car for your payments now that they price them out over 84 months"
I stayed out of the conversation, but in my mind I was thinking the price of the car must has been increased enough to offset the cost of no interest, plus I don't think they realise 84 months is 7 years payments to pay it off.
They will be ready for a new car long before the 7 years is up (she says smugly looking at her 10 year old car with no payments).
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But yes, the concept of a "used house" is very bizarre. What's next, complaining about "used land"?!
This is why I'm moving to Iceland. I need some new land, not this old, hand-me-down land I have now. I have my standards!
There is going to be a whole lot of totally unused land in the Antartic coming on the market in a few decades. Keep an eye open for early investments!
I see alot of new houses with tiny garages. Like impossible to store two medium size vehicles.
You got it wrong. That garage is for one SUV!
They will be ready for a new car long before the 7 years is up (she says smugly looking at her 10 year old car with no payments).
Just sell the old car to the dealer for cheap, and he will be happy to roll the new and old payments together. Maybe even for 96 months!
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I'm thinking about all those people who took out 84-month car loans who still have to be making payments right now when they aren't even driving anywhere because the job that justified that car purchase is now a job they can do from home.
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E1 - "I would never buy a used house."
E2 - "I've never bought a used house."
Me on the other side of the wall... o_O
Used house? I've never heard anyone call a house a "Used House". I think of new houses as mostly contractor grade materials unless you have it built yourself.
Wow, I was over 40 before I ever lived in a house built after I was born. And I probably would have made that forever if a hurricane hadn't wiped out my house.
The duplex I lived in before we bought our house was built in 1973, so it's younger than me. Too bad we couldn't buy that thing.
Anyway, our house was build in 1947.
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E1 - "I would never buy a used house."
E2 - "I've never bought a used house."
Me on the other side of the wall... o_O
Used house? I've never heard anyone call a house a "Used House". I think of new houses as mostly contractor grade materials unless you have it built yourself.
Wow, I was over 40 before I ever lived in a house built after I was born. And I probably would have made that forever if a hurricane hadn't wiped out my house.
The duplex I lived in before we bought our house was built in 1973, so it's younger than me. Too bad we couldn't buy that thing.
Anyway, our house was build in 1947.
1919 house checking in. I'm definitely not that old.
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E1 - "I would never buy a used house."
E2 - "I've never bought a used house."
Me on the other side of the wall... o_O
Used house? I've never heard anyone call a house a "Used House". I think of new houses as mostly contractor grade materials unless you have it built yourself.
Wow, I was over 40 before I ever lived in a house built after I was born. And I probably would have made that forever if a hurricane hadn't wiped out my house.
The duplex I lived in before we bought our house was built in 1973, so it's younger than me. Too bad we couldn't buy that thing.
Anyway, our house was build in 1947.
1919 house checking in. I'm definitely not that old.
1944 house here. But.... built by and for the Manhattan Project (Hanford Engineer Works).
http://hanford.houses.tripod.com/
My house is actually older than the nearby https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Coast_Historic_District_(Richland,_Washington)
tempted to cross post to the "What is your oldest (functional) possession" thread.
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The concept of buying a new house to me feels so, I don’t know, Texas. As in tons of land and a huge dependence on cars. I grew up in a HCOL area so the oldest houses were almost always the nicest and the best parts of town, whereas the newer houses were on the outskirts of town and furthest away from everything. The “rich” side of town was old houses and the “poor” side was the 80s and 90s subdivisions of cookie cutter tract homes.
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Since you all seem so obsessed about house ages, I'll brag a bit.
All the houses I have lived in were build in the 60s, the current one 1963.
My small town still has whole streets from houses before 1800 or even 1700. (Beat that you youngsters in America ;) )
Unfortunately a lot of them unlived in so it is only a matter of time until they implode. Some already have.
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Since you all seem so obsessed about house ages, I'll brag a bit.
All the houses I have lived in were build in the 60s, the current one 1963.
My small town still has whole streets from houses before 1800 or even 1700. (Beat that you youngsters in America ;) )
Unfortunately a lot of them unlived in so it is only a matter of time until they implode. Some already have.
My house was built in 1875, is that old enough for you Europeans? :P I figure if it's stood this long, it must have been built well!
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Since you all seem so obsessed about house ages, I'll brag a bit.
All the houses I have lived in were build in the 60s, the current one 1963.
My small town still has whole streets from houses before 1800 or even 1700. (Beat that you youngsters in America ;) )
Unfortunately a lot of them unlived in so it is only a matter of time until they implode. Some already have.
My current house was built in 1960.
The house I lived in as a little kid was built in the 1700s, and used to be a stagecoach stop. It had since been surrounded by houses, but still had the barn with room for a coach and horses, and a hayloft above. We also had the only access to what used to be the field belonging to the house. I don't think we owned that, but no one else could get to it. We picked blackberries, gooseberries, blackcurrants, etc, and every kid on the street played back there.
I remember when my parents got central heating (radiators), and how it made such a difference to us - no more freezing cold mornings waiting for the AGA stove to warm the kitchen! We moved out of that house when I was eight, and went to a house that was built in the late '60s. As kids, we were amazed that you could hear things in the next room through the sheetrock walls - we were used to walls built with big blocks of cut stone, covered in a thick layer of plaster.
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I grew up in a house built in 1979, and my own houses were built in 1942, 1977, and 2012. Old is nice and can provide some great character, but I'll take our 2012 over the '42 bungalow and the '77 and '79 ranches anytime.
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E1 - "I would never buy a used house."
E2 - "I've never bought a used house."
Me on the other side of the wall... o_O
Used house? I've never heard anyone call a house a "Used House". I think of new houses as mostly contractor grade materials unless you have it built yourself.
I refer to my house as used, as in I want a used house that is in a totally built neighborhood so my purchase price is stable.
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I will say it seems easy to encounter people who put in all of the thought and work and decision-making that it takes to build new, then they move into the house for maybe fifteen months before they have to move again!
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I will say it seems easy to encounter people who put in all of the thought and work and decision-making that it takes to build new, then they move into the house for maybe fifteen months before they have to move again!
Wow! I've never heard of someone doing that! I only know three households that have built new at all, and they'll live there forever.
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I will say it seems easy to encounter people who put in all of the thought and work and decision-making that it takes to build new, then they move into the house for maybe fifteen months before they have to move again!
Wow! I've never heard of someone doing that! I only know three households that have built new at all, and they'll live there forever.
Yeah, I also only know of one case, and that was a professor who got his dream position (in a different country) 3 years after they started the house building process (so about half a year they lived in).
I know a lot of persons who aren't finished with their house (or their garden project) years after they have moved in though :D
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Co-worker of mine was a manager (supervised a team of about 4-6 people). Built a custom house, then got a new job as a VP of a public utility in Ohio and moved his family. It sounded like a significant promotion, so I cannot blame him.
But--if you take the trouble to drive through a new neighborhood where construction is still going on--I bet you'll find at least a few houses that are already on the market and are not "inventory" homes.
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Co-worker of mine was a manager (supervised a team of about 4-6 people). Built a custom house, then got a new job as a VP of a public utility in Ohio and moved his family. It sounded like a significant promotion, so I cannot blame him.
I like to ride my road bike out in the country. Fortunately for me I live only a few km from the edge of town so I can get out to the country easily. I have been riding the same routes for about 10 years now.
I can count at least 5 luxury country homes that I have watched get built, each taking 1-3 years to build, only to be sold a few years after construction is completed. Without fail these are luxury country mansions with triple or quad garages, every bedroom has an on-suite bathroom, and a kitchen that looks like it was designed for a photo shoot not for cooking. The one place had a double tall garage double wide, I never saw anything on the property that would justify the huge garage but you could fit some serious farm equipment in that garage.
I can't wrap my head around what must happen to a family for them to invest all the time and money that it takes to build these luxury mansions only to turn around and sell them a few years later.
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I was chatting with another ayi today who said the family she works for often buys very expensive groceries from the expat market, spending around $200 each time and purchasing several times per week. She then said that often, things will go bad and her job often entails cleaning out the fridge and throwing away things that have gone bad.
That is one of the things I can never wrap my head around. WTH buy so much you are in constant danger of having to throw away things? Especially if you go shopping several times anyway.
I mean it can happen with some small rests of fresh produce or mini-leftovers where you don't find a reasonable way to use it, but I doubt that is meant.
Oh, they don’t GO shopping. They pay a delivery fee to have the premium, imported groceries delivered to their door, and then they eventually let the food rot in the fridge.
I am truly fascinated by this. What is going through their minds as they make these purchases?? Do they simply forget that they have food in the fridge already? Do they not know that food goes bad? Do they think, "Oh, I don't feel like eating that, so I'll buy something else" and they just don't care that they're wasting food & money?
The story wasn't about me, but I often buy healthy food from the market, get it in the fridge, then just don't feel like eating healthy or cooking it. So I buy crap, eat that, and let the healthy food rot. One of these days I'll do it right, but I still have hope, so I keep buying the healthy food.
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I have one: the small business where I work employs a handful of engineers (expensive), and a bunch of people who assemble our products (at $10/hr). It's interesting to note that the engineers (and management) always bring a sack lunch, or leftovers, or fruit for lunch, while fast food, takeout, or Starbucks are a common sight down in the assembly area. The folks who can least afford it, it seems, are the ones who buy it most frequently.
It's also interesting that with the exception of one car, the owner of the business drives the least-valuable vehicle in the parking lot--an '03 Accord with >250k miles on it. I think I'm pretty close, though, with my '95 Corolla with 234k.
When my nephew lived with me and had a retail job, the one thing that I think he learned while under my roof was how stupid it was to buy lunch every day. I asked him how many hours he worked to buy his lunch every day and he didn't understand my point at all until I did the math with him. I showed him that his first 1 hour, 15 minutes of work were basically working for nothing if he then spent what he earned to buy lunch at the food court. It really opened his eyes and he started buying his own groceries and taking a sandwich to work every day after that. I'm really proud of that!
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Co-worker of mine was a manager (supervised a team of about 4-6 people). Built a custom house, then got a new job as a VP of a public utility in Ohio and moved his family. It sounded like a significant promotion, so I cannot blame him.
I like to ride my road bike out in the country. Fortunately for me I live only a few km from the edge of town so I can get out to the country easily. I have been riding the same routes for about 10 years now.
I can count at least 5 luxury country homes that I have watched get built, each taking 1-3 years to build, only to be sold a few years after construction is completed. Without fail these are luxury country mansions with triple or quad garages, every bedroom has an on-suite bathroom, and a kitchen that looks like it was designed for a photo shoot not for cooking. The one place had a double tall garage double wide, I never saw anything on the property that would justify the huge garage but you could fit some serious farm equipment in that garage.
I can't wrap my head around what must happen to a family for them to invest all the time and money that it takes to build these luxury mansions only to turn around and sell them a few years later.
It happened with the house my parents built. It was sold when it was about 15 years old. So the tiles/kitchen/colour scheme was slightly dated, it could do with a fresh coat of paint, new floors in some bedrooms and some repairs here and there. But generally a well built, good quality and fairly new home with a large landscaped garden in English cottage style. Maybe in need of 10k worth of cosmetic updating and small fixes.
Instead, the new owners completely stripped the house, built a large addition, moved nearly every internal wall, put in completely new landscaping, even took out the entire driveway and replaced it with a different material (who does that? Take out a perfectly good 20 meter long driveway in perfect condition because you want another colour of brick?) .
Renovations took 3 years and they're selling after 5. According to village gossip they are getting divorced. House prices have increased by 40% in that period but according to my back of a napkin math they're probably going to make a loss if they sell for the asking price, even though asking is 200k more than what they paid then. Who would have thought that a 3-year mid 6-figure renovation would impact your marriage?
They've also decorated the place in a really specific style so I just hope they're going to find a buyer who's into that or even more money will be wasted. As a mustachian, I just cannot imagine the thought process, the sheer scope of the waste. I would hesitate to replace a functional but ugly kitchen and look into painting instead, other people apparantly don't even mind almost demolishing a really new house.
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I will say it seems easy to encounter people who put in all of the thought and work and decision-making that it takes to build new, then they move into the house for maybe fifteen months before they have to move again!
I see that from time to time too. Never understood that. I have a relative that did that. Went through great trouble to buy and renovate, or build new - and then about 18 months or so later they'd move on to another job. Crawling up the career and real estate ladder
I'm sure they made money on property each move but it was an all life consuming process to settle into a job, get the kids into school and get the house the way they liked it only to move on to the next job. They've continued to do that to this day. It is possible they've finally "landed". I'll let you know in about 3-5 years.
There is truly a point if done right, a person could be mortgage free. A sort of side hustle.
DW and I took a different approach trying to stay one place as long as possible to minimize disruption to our lives and those of our kids. Each time we moved and renovated the empty house after we left. The disruption to our lives was shorter and we had a self-imposed deadline to get it on the market and sold ASAP. Fortunately our houses have always sold quickly once completed.
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Co-worker of mine was a manager (supervised a team of about 4-6 people). Built a custom house, then got a new job as a VP of a public utility in Ohio and moved his family. It sounded like a significant promotion, so I cannot blame him.
I like to ride my road bike out in the country. Fortunately for me I live only a few km from the edge of town so I can get out to the country easily. I have been riding the same routes for about 10 years now.
I can count at least 5 luxury country homes that I have watched get built, each taking 1-3 years to build, only to be sold a few years after construction is completed. Without fail these are luxury country mansions with triple or quad garages, every bedroom has an on-suite bathroom, and a kitchen that looks like it was designed for a photo shoot not for cooking. The one place had a double tall garage double wide, I never saw anything on the property that would justify the huge garage but you could fit some serious farm equipment in that garage.
I can't wrap my head around what must happen to a family for them to invest all the time and money that it takes to build these luxury mansions only to turn around and sell them a few years later.
Divorces? Money-laundering? ;)
In our town there is a $1.6M home for sale. Very out of character for this town. I got nosey and did a reverse address lookup and then chased names on the internet. Multiple addresses in multiple states. Perhaps choose to be out of the limelight but very well to do. Business is in one state, properties are around the country.
No idea. All I can do is speculate. I wonder about tax advantages mostly.
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FWIW, I have a relative that has built a few homes, new, from lot up, and moved on after 2-5 years.
Their logic:
1. They have a life in trades and do all the plumbing, general contracting, and finishing work themselves. (Hire out basic construction, architectural, electrical, drywall to various sub trades).
2. There is a tax on new homes sold as new. If you are an owner/builder and live there for at least 2 years, and then sell, you do not charge the tax, and get a better price in your pocket. The interest on the mortgage is your rent during that time.
3. Plus, 2 years after construction, most of the homes around are already built and the area looks a lot more attractive to buyers who don't need to live though neighbor construction mess.
4. Housing always* increases in value over time.
* according to my relative. doh! In actual fact, some areas, once built, have brand new developments agressively being sold adjacent, which keeps the resale prices depressed, but don't tell him that.
So, think of it kind of like a long flip, or a business for him.
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FWIW, I have a relative that has built a few homes, new, from lot up, and moved on after 2-5 years.
Their logic:
1. They have a life in trades and do all the plumbing, general contracting, and finishing work themselves. (Hire out basic construction, architectural, electrical, drywall to various sub trades).
2. There is a tax on new homes sold as new. If you are an owner/builder and live there for at least 2 years, and then sell, you do not charge the tax, and get a better price in your pocket. The interest on the mortgage is your rent during that time.
3. Plus, 2 years after construction, most of the homes around are already built and the area looks a lot more attractive to buyers who don't need to live though neighbor construction mess.
4. Housing always* increases in value over time.
* according to my relative. doh! In actual fact, some areas, once built, have brand new developments agressively being sold adjacent, which keeps the resale prices depressed, but don't tell him that.
So, think of it kind of like a long flip, or a business for him.
If you are a wandering fixer-upper, no words against it! That is great!
If you like that hand work und have fun doing it, and get a profit out of it, that is the best that can happen.
But generally the people are different to that ;)
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I was eating lunch yesterday and overheard two guys next to me talking. One was complaining that he'd spent $1,700 on two phones for his kids. One got the iPhone 11 and the other got the iPhone 11 Pro. They were talking about how their wives both wanted new phones as well.
Meanwhile I've been using my 5-year old phone because my new $400 phone broke a couple of months after I got it and I haven't been able to get it repaired yet since everything is closed. I did get about $150 towards the repair from extra insurance through my credit card - which should cover most of the estimate cost of replacing the LCD screen that broke (not the glass).
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I have to admit, having the newest phone right away is probably going to turn into how it used to be with cars.
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New phones don't make that much sense to me. I'm an Android user. Will be a Linux phone user possibly the next time I need a phone.
If I go buy a brand new phone - it will be filled with the same apps as I have now. It'll have the same kind of background picture that I use now. Organized the same way.
My phone is three years old. It has a great camera. Not sluggish. Battery lasts for days depending on how I use it.
What is the newest version going to get me?
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I only bought a newer phone because several apps I used were no longer supported by the version of Android my old phone runs. I have to say the camera on the newer one was also a significant improvement. Plus I don't have to worry about constantly deleting old podcasts every time I download a new one because it has such limited space. Still, that was $400 - not $1,000.
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I was eating lunch yesterday and overheard two guys next to me talking. One was complaining that he'd spent $1,700 on two phones for his kids. One got the iPhone 11 and the other got the iPhone 11 Pro. They were talking about how their wives both wanted new phones as well.
Meanwhile I've been using my 5-year old phone because my new $400 phone broke a couple of months after I got it and I haven't been able to get it repaired yet since everything is closed. I did get about $150 towards the repair from extra insurance through my credit card - which should cover most of the estimate cost of replacing the LCD screen that broke (not the glass).
I have the fear that the battery on my phone is dying. I have used it more than usual, but it is still 1.5 times more loading this week than usual.
It's a 30€ phone from 2013. I don't want to have to replace it. I would probably need more time to transfer all the data than I am using it in a year.
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What is the newest version going to get me?
For me personally, not being broken. I tend to physically damage my phones. I do really like the Google devices, Nexus and now Pixel. I'm very happy with my Pixel 3a, and will probably replace it when they no longer provide security updates.
Seriously, don't use a phone without up-to-date software from the vendor. You are asking for trouble, in my professional opinion.
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What is the newest version going to get me?
Bragging rights.
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What is the newest version going to get me?
For me personally, not being broken. I tend to physically damage my phones. I do really like the Google devices, Nexus and now Pixel. I'm very happy with my Pixel 3a, and will probably replace it when they no longer provide security updates.
Seriously, don't use a phone without up-to-date software from the vendor. You are asking for trouble, in my professional opinion.
Um, you know they make heavy duty phone cases, right?
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But yes, the concept of a "used house" is very bizarre. What's next, complaining about "used land"?!
Don't even get started on used water and used air... I told someone once the O2 they breathe was exhaled by a tree. They didn't believe me.
There is some probability that your last drink of water contained some H20 molecules peed by a frightened baby dinosaur when it saw a T-Rex coming at it.
(dimensional analysis, make-the-units-cancel problem from freshman year college chemistry class).
Husband teaching freshman chem wants to know if you remember anything more about that problem.
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But yes, the concept of a "used house" is very bizarre. What's next, complaining about "used land"?!
Don't even get started on used water and used air... I told someone once the O2 they breathe was exhaled by a tree. They didn't believe me.
There is some probability that your last drink of water contained some H20 molecules peed by a frightened baby dinosaur when it saw a T-Rex coming at it.
(dimensional analysis, make-the-units-cancel problem from freshman year college chemistry class).
Husband teaching freshman chem wants to know if you remember anything more about that problem.
Wait... did dinos pee? Birds don't pee.
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But yes, the concept of a "used house" is very bizarre. What's next, complaining about "used land"?!
Don't even get started on used water and used air... I told someone once the O2 they breathe was exhaled by a tree. They didn't believe me.
There is some probability that your last drink of water contained some H20 molecules peed by a frightened baby dinosaur when it saw a T-Rex coming at it.
(dimensional analysis, make-the-units-cancel problem from freshman year college chemistry class).
Husband teaching freshman chem wants to know if you remember anything more about that problem.
I vaguely remember ~ 30 gallons of pee ( or fright induced excreta of some sort) divided into the total volume of earth water. There were some intermediate steps that I've forgotten now.
A mole of "beverage " cans dumped on earth makes a thick (hundreds of miles) layer. Hand wave away compression. Beverage is code for beer, depending on the need for verbal correctness.
Requires V=4/3 Pi r3
Randal Monroe (xkcd, what-if) has done a mole of moles.
https://what-if.xkcd.com/4/
Edit, added V in equation and xckd link
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But yes, the concept of a "used house" is very bizarre. What's next, complaining about "used land"?!
Don't even get started on used water and used air... I told someone once the O2 they breathe was exhaled by a tree. They didn't believe me.
There is some probability that your last drink of water contained some H20 molecules peed by a frightened baby dinosaur when it saw a T-Rex coming at it.
(dimensional analysis, make-the-units-cancel problem from freshman year college chemistry class).
Husband teaching freshman chem wants to know if you remember anything more about that problem.
I vaguely remember ~ 30 gallons of pee ( or fright induced excreta of some sort) divided into the total volume of earth water. There were some intermediate steps that I've forgotten now.
A mole of "beverage " cans dumped on earth makes a thick (hundreds of miles) layer. Hand wave away compression. Beverage is code for beer, depending on the need for verbal correctness.
Requires V=4/3 Pi r3
Randal Monroe (xkcd, what-if) has done a mole of moles.
https://what-if.xkcd.com/4/
Edit, added V in equation and xckd link
Mom, they're doing chemistry in the 'I suck at financial math' section!
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While waiting for a meeting to start a couple of co-workers were discussing the problems with camp grounds being closed and the problems with the provincial parks camps closing their shower facilities. The conversation switched to planning on buying cottages as their preferred solution to ensure they have a safe place for their holidays. Wow the prices for what they are looking for were more than I would buy a permanent home for. I understand their frustration on not getting out and enjoying their vacation ,but I don't think they are thinking all the financial impacts of owning a second home for only a couple of weeks of holidays.
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While waiting for a meeting to start a couple of co-workers were discussing the problems with camp grounds being closed and the problems with the provincial parks camps closing their shower facilities. The conversation switched to planning on buying cottages as their preferred solution to ensure they have a safe place for their holidays. Wow the prices for what they are looking for were more than I would buy a permanent home for. I understand their frustration on not getting out and enjoying their vacation ,but I don't think they are thinking all the financial impacts of owning a second home for only a couple of weeks of holidays.
It's not just a couple of weeks of vacation. It's long May weekend to open up, Thanksgiving weekend to close/winterize, and every weekend in between to be sure everything is OK and "get your money's worthless worth". In other words, they would be making a huge financial AND TIME commitment.
Signed, former cottage owner ;-)
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I only bought a newer phone because several apps I used were no longer supported by the version of Android my old phone runs. I have to say the camera on the newer one was also a significant improvement. Plus I don't have to worry about constantly deleting old podcasts every time I download a new one because it has such limited space. Still, that was $400 - not $1,000.
That makes sense. Sorry if I seemed harsh. I was venting. Heard from several people (two coworkers) in a single week buying new phones just because... One just needs a new $15 battery.
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I only bought a newer phone because several apps I used were no longer supported by the version of Android my old phone runs. I have to say the camera on the newer one was also a significant improvement. Plus I don't have to worry about constantly deleting old podcasts every time I download a new one because it has such limited space. Still, that was $400 - not $1,000.
That makes sense. Sorry if I seemed harsh. I was venting. Heard from several people (two coworkers) in a single week buying new phones just because... One just needs a new $15 battery.
Unfortunately it not just a $15 battery. Almost all modern phones are sealed such that the batteries aren't user replaceable. I recently had the battery replaced in my original Pixel phone and it was between $60 `~ $70. And they said it could have been more as sometimes the screen will break during the process, something my research beforehand confirmed. It's also aged out of updates from Google and for that reason alone I'll probably replace it sometime in the future.
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I only bought a newer phone because several apps I used were no longer supported by the version of Android my old phone runs. I have to say the camera on the newer one was also a significant improvement. Plus I don't have to worry about constantly deleting old podcasts every time I download a new one because it has such limited space. Still, that was $400 - not $1,000.
That makes sense. Sorry if I seemed harsh. I was venting. Heard from several people (two coworkers) in a single week buying new phones just because... One just needs a new $15 battery.
Unfortunately it not just a $15 battery. Almost all modern phones are sealed such that the batteries aren't user replaceable. I recently had the battery replaced in my original Pixel phone and it was between $60 `~ $70. And they said it could have been more as sometimes the screen will break during the process, something my research beforehand confirmed. It's also aged out of updates from Google and for that reason alone I'll probably replace it sometime in the future.
Nah you can get the battery and disassembly kit for like $30 max
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I only bought a newer phone because several apps I used were no longer supported by the version of Android my old phone runs. I have to say the camera on the newer one was also a significant improvement. Plus I don't have to worry about constantly deleting old podcasts every time I download a new one because it has such limited space. Still, that was $400 - not $1,000.
That makes sense. Sorry if I seemed harsh. I was venting. Heard from several people (two coworkers) in a single week buying new phones just because... One just needs a new $15 battery.
Unfortunately it not just a $15 battery. Almost all modern phones are sealed such that the batteries aren't user replaceable. I recently had the battery replaced in my original Pixel phone and it was between $60 `~ $70. And they said it could have been more as sometimes the screen will break during the process, something my research beforehand confirmed. It's also aged out of updates from Google and for that reason alone I'll probably replace it sometime in the future.
Gotta love that planned obsolescence.
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I held onto my S5 for the longest time (and replaced with refurb'd models twice) because it was the last model that didn't require a special tool and a glue pack to change the battery in. I moved up to an S8 last year when I found an Active model on Backmarket for a decent price. I'm happy with it so far, but it hasn't been that long, so we'll see what kind of battery life I get out of it.
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Nah you can get the battery and disassembly kit for like $30 max
I changed the battery on my old MotoX last year. Bought the kit, spent an hour just removing the back, only to find the kit had the incorrect little tiny star drive screw driver included. Went to a couple cell phone stores looking for one. A nice guy at the cell phone repair place let me sit in his shop and use his screw driver to spend another hour getting the battery out. He said that phone was an easy battery swap compared to most.
The new battery did jack for the phone's performance or battery life (and I'd removed all the apps and whatever else I could think of to help it work better), so I ended up buying a Pixel3 a couple months later.
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I am an iPhone person and my husband usually replaces my battery once in es h phone I have before I replace it. That extends its life by at least a year. You can buy kits with the battery and the tools you need to replace it and then follow iFixIt instructions online.
That said, I have now finally moved to a waterproof model and I am not sure how well the waterproofing will survive a battery replacement.
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I am an iPhone person and my husband usually replaces my battery once in es h phone I have before I replace it. That extends its life by at least a year. You can buy kits with the battery and the tools you need to replace it and then follow iFixIt instructions online.
That said, I have now finally moved to a waterproof model and I am not sure how well the waterproofing will survive a battery replacement.
It won't.
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I am an iPhone person and my husband usually replaces my battery once in es h phone I have before I replace it. That extends its life by at least a year. You can buy kits with the battery and the tools you need to replace it and then follow iFixIt instructions online.
That said, I have now finally moved to a waterproof model and I am not sure how well the waterproofing will survive a battery replacement.
It won't.
It will if you replace the "display adhesive" aka double sided tape. It's usually included in the kits but can be had separately for an inflated price. Even so, the total cost is way less than paying Apple or buying a new phone.
Or you could just stop showering with your phone
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"Why do you work so late?!" (Clueless coworkers who are bouncy-kneed at 4:15 waiting for 4:29 so they leave a minute early, peel rubber out of the parking lot and go buy something.) I finish up at around 9:45pm five days/week and work about nine hours every Sat and Sun as well--4:15 is about lunchtime for me...
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"Why do you work so late?!" (Clueless coworkers who are bouncy-kneed at 4:15 waiting for 4:29 so they leave a minute early, peel rubber out of the parking lot and go buy something.) I finish up at around 9:45pm five days/week and work about nine hours every Sat and Sun as well--4:15 is about lunchtime for me...
That's funny. How do you know they aren't rushing home to kiss their spouse instead of going shopping?
Because if you aren't being paid extra for all those extra hours, they aren't the clueless one in this scenario...
And even if you are, that's a crazy amount of extra work to take on unless it's for sheer survival or for a very limited period of time.
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"Why do you work so late?!" (Clueless coworkers who are bouncy-kneed at 4:15 waiting for 4:29 so they leave a minute early, peel rubber out of the parking lot and go buy something.) I finish up at around 9:45pm five days/week and work about nine hours every Sat and Sun as well--4:15 is about lunchtime for me...
That's funny. How do you know they aren't rushing home to kiss their spouse instead of going shopping?
Because if you aren't being paid extra for all those extra hours, they aren't the clueless one in this scenario...
And even if you are, that's a crazy amount of extra work to take on unless it's for sheer survival or for a very limited period of time.
Yes they have their priorities but they prioritize bizarre things like “time with family” or other scams. And yes those are the same nonsense lines they have tried on me for years which I use my ninja vision to see right through. Everybody will try to hypnotize you and make you mediocre and “balanced” like them—watch out!
Edit: And yes, went from ~70K to low 200s by cancelling nights and weekends several years ago.
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Edit: And yes, went from ~70K to low 200s by cancelling nights and weekends several years ago.
Have you tried switching to Verizon?
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I am an iPhone person and my husband usually replaces my battery once in es h phone I have before I replace it. That extends its life by at least a year. You can buy kits with the battery and the tools you need to replace it and then follow iFixIt instructions online.
That said, I have now finally moved to a waterproof model and I am not sure how well the waterproofing will survive a battery replacement.
It won't.
It will if you replace the "display adhesive" aka double sided tape. It's usually included in the kits but can be had separately for an inflated price. Even so, the total cost is way less than paying Apple or buying a new phone.
Or you could just stop showering with your phone
That will not make it have anywhere near the same water resistance rating.
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Edit: And yes, went from ~70K to low 200s by cancelling nights and weekends several years ago.
Have you tried switching to Verizon?
Ha! Yep those prices were outrageous alright. Funny phone story though, my flaky family members who borrowed $2500 from me in an "emergency" wanted to use Venmo to pay me back, and when I told them that I use a VOIP that venmo can't verify and it's not an option, they proceeded to lecture me on how "cheap" I am with my phone plan. My friend if that ain't rich dunno what is.
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FWIW, I have a relative that has built a few homes, new, from lot up, and moved on after 2-5 years.
Their logic:
1. They have a life in trades and do all the plumbing, general contracting, and finishing work themselves. (Hire out basic construction, architectural, electrical, drywall to various sub trades).
Since trades work often has "lumpy" or variable demand (ie, time between jobs) - this seems like an excellent way to stay busy in a profitable way. No work today? Well, let's install those cabinets at home!
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Have a surprising coincidence for my home, it was built in 1899.. the same year my paternal grandfather was born.
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I am an iPhone person and my husband usually replaces my battery once in es h phone I have before I replace it. That extends its life by at least a year. You can buy kits with the battery and the tools you need to replace it and then follow iFixIt instructions online.
That said, I have now finally moved to a waterproof model and I am not sure how well the waterproofing will survive a battery replacement.
It won't.
It will if you replace the "display adhesive" aka double sided tape. It's usually included in the kits but can be had separately for an inflated price. Even so, the total cost is way less than paying Apple or buying a new phone.
Or you could just stop showering with your phone
That will not make it have anywhere near the same water resistance rating.
Why not? That’s what Apple does and they warranty their work
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I am an iPhone person and my husband usually replaces my battery once in es h phone I have before I replace it. That extends its life by at least a year. You can buy kits with the battery and the tools you need to replace it and then follow iFixIt instructions online.
That said, I have now finally moved to a waterproof model and I am not sure how well the waterproofing will survive a battery replacement.
It won't.
It will if you replace the "display adhesive" aka double sided tape. It's usually included in the kits but can be had separately for an inflated price. Even so, the total cost is way less than paying Apple or buying a new phone.
Or you could just stop showering with your phone
At this stage it isn’t showering but baby drool. He manages to get his hands on the phone and everything goes into the pie hole. Sigh.
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Ha! Yep those prices were outrageous alright. Funny phone story though, my flaky family members who borrowed $2500 from me in an "emergency" wanted to use Venmo to pay me back, and when I told them that I use a VOIP that venmo can't verify and it's not an option, they proceeded to lecture me on how "cheap" I am with my phone plan. My friend if that ain't rich dunno what is.
I've got nothing to add but I want you to know this post made me smile.
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Ha! Yep those prices were outrageous alright. Funny phone story though, my flaky family members who borrowed $2500 from me in an "emergency" wanted to use Venmo to pay me back, and when I told them that I use a VOIP that venmo can't verify and it's not an option, they proceeded to lecture me on how "cheap" I am with my phone plan. My friend if that ain't rich dunno what is.
I've got nothing to add but I want you to know this post made me smile.
It's fascinating how many people don't see the connection between not spending money and accumulating wealth. I think that for them "being rich" equals "spending a lot" and no thought goes into the source/cause of being rich.
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I am an iPhone person and my husband usually replaces my battery once in es h phone I have before I replace it. That extends its life by at least a year. You can buy kits with the battery and the tools you need to replace it and then follow iFixIt instructions online.
That said, I have now finally moved to a waterproof model and I am not sure how well the waterproofing will survive a battery replacement.
It won't.
It will if you replace the "display adhesive" aka double sided tape. It's usually included in the kits but can be had separately for an inflated price. Even so, the total cost is way less than paying Apple or buying a new phone.
Or you could just stop showering with your phone
That will not make it have anywhere near the same water resistance rating.
Why not? That’s what Apple does and they warranty their work
Maybe you are right about battery. For the screen they use a special machine.
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I am an iPhone person and my husband usually replaces my battery once in es h phone I have before I replace it. That extends its life by at least a year. You can buy kits with the battery and the tools you need to replace it and then follow iFixIt instructions online.
That said, I have now finally moved to a waterproof model and I am not sure how well the waterproofing will survive a battery replacement.
It won't.
It will if you replace the "display adhesive" aka double sided tape. It's usually included in the kits but can be had separately for an inflated price. Even so, the total cost is way less than paying Apple or buying a new phone.
Or you could just stop showering with your phone
That will not make it have anywhere near the same water resistance rating.
Why not? That’s what Apple does and they warranty their work
Maybe you are right about battery. For the screen they use a special machine.
Could't find anything about a waterproofing machine. Do tell.
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"Why do you work so late?!" (Clueless coworkers who are bouncy-kneed at 4:15 waiting for 4:29 so they leave a minute early, peel rubber out of the parking lot and go buy something.) I finish up at around 9:45pm five days/week and work about nine hours every Sat and Sun as well--4:15 is about lunchtime for me...
Careful...I've heard that working a metric crapton of hours can lead to...monerexia.
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What is the newest version going to get me?
For me personally, not being broken. I tend to physically damage my phones. I do really like the Google devices, Nexus and now Pixel. I'm very happy with my Pixel 3a, and will probably replace it when they no longer provide security updates.
Seriously, don't use a phone without up-to-date software from the vendor. You are asking for trouble, in my professional opinion.
Yup. Got a Pixel 3a and really like it.
Honestly, I'm warping Mustachians views here but Phones and TVs are two of the best purchases I've made. I've added a 50-55inch tv every 2-3 years for ~$250/piece so now I have 3 in different rooms (one outside, one living room, and one in the guest bedroom so the MIL can watch in bed). The amount of value I get from them is just insane for the per use cost. Same with a new phone every 2 years (~$400) to ensure a phone with a pretty solid camera, plenty of storage and updated software. For ~.50 a day for something I use this much is great value. Add in my bluetooth headphones for $25 bucks. No regrets and I'm a pretty cheap person. There are easier ways to save that money spent on things I use. I get some people dont value that and are ok with a six year-old phone but I travel and want to take a ton of pictures and have a long battery life. Phones are also a thing where you dont think there is much difference until you go back to your old phone. The speed, displays, etc are noticeable once you have that hedonistic adaptation.
Now if you are talking $2k tvs, that is another scenario.
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Same with a new phone every 2 years (~$400) to ensure a phone with a pretty solid camera, plenty of storage and updated software. For ~.50 a day for something I use this much is great value.
I think the rule is, buy only what you need and what you can afford. For me it is the same with phones. I bought a Galaxy S7 in 2017 and this year a Note 9. Both not current flagships, but way ahead of any 6 year old/shirty cheap phone.
When I travel, I don't have a camera with me, so that's a big deal.
Spending 1000 bucks every year on a new iPhone? No thank you.
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What is the newest version going to get me?
For me personally, not being broken. I tend to physically damage my phones. I do really like the Google devices, Nexus and now Pixel. I'm very happy with my Pixel 3a, and will probably replace it when they no longer provide security updates.
Seriously, don't use a phone without up-to-date software from the vendor. You are asking for trouble, in my professional opinion.
Yup. Got a Pixel 3a and really like it.
Honestly, I'm warping Mustachians views here but Phones and TVs are two of the best purchases I've made. I've added a 50-55inch tv every 2-3 years for ~$250/piece so now I have 3 in different rooms (one outside, one living room, and one in the guest bedroom so the MIL can watch in bed). The amount of value I get from them is just insane for the per use cost. Same with a new phone every 2 years (~$400) to ensure a phone with a pretty solid camera, plenty of storage and updated software. For ~.50 a day for something I use this much is great value. Add in my bluetooth headphones for $25 bucks. No regrets and I'm a pretty cheap person. There are easier ways to save that money spent on things I use. I get some people dont value that and are ok with a six year-old phone but I travel and want to take a ton of pictures and have a long battery life. Phones are also a thing where you dont think there is much difference until you go back to your old phone. The speed, displays, etc are noticeable once you have that hedonistic adaptation.
Now if you are talking $2k tvs, that is another scenario.
My pixel 3A was a good purchase (the Nexus died...cracked/broken screen).
We actually paid $150-200 for a crappy TV when COVID hit, and I'm using it as a monitor. It's not awesome (it's 720? Should have spent $50 more.) It had to be shipped back and replaced because it broke. However, it's been great to have a monitor AND the use of the TV is good also. When it was the rainy season and someone was doing "school" in the living room, I could use it to work out during the day.
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Coworker. Late fifties. Great guy. Terrible with money, but he knows it. Bought a brand new fancy truck about 3 years ago. Told me the interest rate was 12%. Used it for his 40 minute commute. His wife drove a minicooper bought used. Fast forward to last year. Trades in his 2 year old truck for another brand new truck. Payments are over $600/mon. Also trades in his wife's minicooper, which was about to be paid off, for a brand new car (forget which model). Between payments, gas, and insurance alone, he's got to be shelling out over $1,000/mon just on the truck for basic transportation. Damn.
I posted that two years ago. The saga continues. He just traded in THAT truck for a new 4x4 F250 with crewcab. Payment only $871/mon. Damn....
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Coworker. Late fifties. Great guy. Terrible with money, but he knows it. Bought a brand new fancy truck about 3 years ago. Told me the interest rate was 12%. Used it for his 40 minute commute. His wife drove a minicooper bought used. Fast forward to last year. Trades in his 2 year old truck for another brand new truck. Payments are over $600/mon. Also trades in his wife's minicooper, which was about to be paid off, for a brand new car (forget which model). Between payments, gas, and insurance alone, he's got to be shelling out over $1,000/mon just on the truck for basic transportation. Damn.
I posted that two years ago. The saga continues. He just traded in THAT truck for a new 4x4 F250 with crewcab. Payment only $871/mon. Damn....
Oh wow. Does he ever plan to retire? Spending that much on cars makes me feel anxious by proxy. I can't imagine actually doing it.
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Oh wow. Does he ever plan to retire? Spending that much on cars makes me feel anxious by proxy. I can't imagine actually doing it.
He would like to, as he's always complaining about work, but it's hard to see how. He turns 60 this month or next. Still has a mortgage. The truck isn't needed for work or business purposes. He wants to pull an RV with it for vacations...occasionally. He cashed out his 80k 403b in 2017 when switching jobs. I believe he was paying off the IRS for back taxes even before that. He'd be the first to admit he just sucks with money.
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Coworker. Late fifties. Great guy. Terrible with money, but he knows it. Bought a brand new fancy truck about 3 years ago. Told me the interest rate was 12%. Used it for his 40 minute commute. His wife drove a minicooper bought used. Fast forward to last year. Trades in his 2 year old truck for another brand new truck. Payments are over $600/mon. Also trades in his wife's minicooper, which was about to be paid off, for a brand new car (forget which model). Between payments, gas, and insurance alone, he's got to be shelling out over $1,000/mon just on the truck for basic transportation. Damn.
I posted that two years ago. The saga continues. He just traded in THAT truck for a new 4x4 F250 with crewcab. Payment only $871/mon. Damn....
Ow. OMG. Just. Ow.
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Coworker. Late fifties. Great guy. Terrible with money, but he knows it. Bought a brand new fancy truck about 3 years ago. Told me the interest rate was 12%. Used it for his 40 minute commute. His wife drove a minicooper bought used. Fast forward to last year. Trades in his 2 year old truck for another brand new truck. Payments are over $600/mon. Also trades in his wife's minicooper, which was about to be paid off, for a brand new car (forget which model). Between payments, gas, and insurance alone, he's got to be shelling out over $1,000/mon just on the truck for basic transportation. Damn.
I posted that two years ago. The saga continues. He just traded in THAT truck for a new 4x4 F250 with crewcab. Payment only $871/mon. Damn....
Thanks for posting this. Stories like this are what I come to this thread for.
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Not sure if I ever posted this. Apologies if it's a repeat.
I was talking to a biglaw partner about something. Dude makes over $1 million per year and has a house only maybe $2 million. Has been partner for decades. He says "I wish I could retire!" Me:
(https://i.imgur.com/sohWhy9.png)
He did end up retiring a couple years after me so I guess he figured it out himself. Also his wife is a freakin' dentist. If you are on here, PM me.
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Not overheard, but I had to keep my mouth shut last week with a co-worker, who admits he’s not in trouble because he and his wife make good money. (Probably at least 200k). But he can’t retire any time soon because he needs more, he didn’t know his salary, he has a TSP loan, made 300k his previous house in Seattle and now lives in a lower COL area in the Midwest.
He got on my never for other stuff (worked with him in person for a week). I so wanted to drop on him the size of my brokerage account to explain why I wasn’t as desperate for money as him.
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Oh wow. Does he ever plan to retire? Spending that much on cars makes me feel anxious by proxy. I can't imagine actually doing it.
He would like to, as he's always complaining about work, but it's hard to see how. He turns 60 this month or next. Still has a mortgage. The truck isn't needed for work or business purposes. He wants to pull an RV with it for vacations...occasionally. He cashed out his 80k 403b in 2017 when switching jobs. I believe he was paying off the IRS for back taxes even before that. He'd be the first to admit he just sucks with money.
It seems like someone like that could benefit from seeing the simple calculation of what you get after 5 years if you spend that money on cars or if you instead invest it. “Hey, you could have $68,000 in five years or nothing. Which do you prefer?”
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Oh wow. Does he ever plan to retire? Spending that much on cars makes me feel anxious by proxy. I can't imagine actually doing it.
He would like to, as he's always complaining about work, but it's hard to see how. He turns 60 this month or next. Still has a mortgage. The truck isn't needed for work or business purposes. He wants to pull an RV with it for vacations...occasionally. He cashed out his 80k 403b in 2017 when switching jobs. I believe he was paying off the IRS for back taxes even before that. He'd be the first to admit he just sucks with money.
It seems like someone like that could benefit from seeing the simple calculation of what you get after 5 years if you spend that money on cars or if you instead invest it. “Hey, you could have $68,000 in five years or nothing. Which do you prefer?”
He doesn't suck with money. He sucks with ego. All that spending is compensating for something. Until that's addressed he's not going to stop spending.
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Oh wow. Does he ever plan to retire? Spending that much on cars makes me feel anxious by proxy. I can't imagine actually doing it.
He would like to, as he's always complaining about work, but it's hard to see how. He turns 60 this month or next. Still has a mortgage. The truck isn't needed for work or business purposes. He wants to pull an RV with it for vacations...occasionally. He cashed out his 80k 403b in 2017 when switching jobs. I believe he was paying off the IRS for back taxes even before that. He'd be the first to admit he just sucks with money.
It seems like someone like that could benefit from seeing the simple calculation of what you get after 5 years if you spend that money on cars or if you instead invest it. “Hey, you could have $68,000 in five years or nothing. Which do you prefer?”
He doesn't suck with money. He sucks with ego. All that spending is compensating for something. Until that's addressed he's not going to stop spending.
My high school friend calls them “LPTs: little penis trucks”.
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had an ex-co-worker who leased jeep and other "tough-guy" looking trucks. guy was physically not in shape. he would constantly brag and belittle all of us, including our team lead, that he was the "most bestest hardworking guy because he had the best vehicle".
One co-worker told him, "You don't own them, you lease, so STFU."
One day, in a team meeting, he said he was "winning the race". (no one knows WTF he was talking about). eyes were rolling. shrugs.
I said, "you're winning. your vehicle is depreciating at a faster rate than my retirement accounts growing. congratulations." (this was mid 2015 when the market took a small dip.)
Much crazy laughter, 22 IT staff guffawing. Dumbass truck-boy (DTB is what we called him) did not get it. He was literally asking "what, what was the joke? I didn't get it, some explain."
He left a few months later. We had an office pot-luck party after he left.
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One day, in a team meeting, he said he was "winning the race". (no one knows WTF he was talking about). eyes were rolling. shrugs.
He likely meant the race of "Buy things you don't need with money you don't have to impress people you don't like".
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One day, in a team meeting, he said he was "winning the race". (no one knows WTF he was talking about). eyes were rolling. shrugs.
He likely meant the race of "Buy things you don't need with money you don't have to impress people you that don't like YOU".
FTFY or an attempt to help :-)
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One day, in a team meeting, he said he was "winning the race". (no one knows WTF he was talking about). eyes were rolling. shrugs.
He likely meant the race of "Buy things you don't need with money you don't have to impress people you that don't like YOU".
FTFY or an attempt to help :-)
Nono, he meant the race I have described. But he was in the one you have written down.
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DS18 works part-time as a lifeguard at an outdoor pool. Obviously, it's important that staff keep hydrated. He has a coworker who drinks off-brand Gatorade because "I'm all about saving money." Other coworkers razz him for buying the knockoff, to which he replies, "It's cheaper than water!"
In the guard room there's a free water cooler.
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DS18 works part-time as a lifeguard at an outdoor pool. Obviously, it's important that staff keep hydrated. He has a coworker who drinks off-brand Gatorade because "I'm all about saving money." Other coworkers razz him for buying the knockoff, to which he replies, "It's cheaper than water!"
In the guard room there's a free water cooler.
Which would also be a lot more healthier than sports drinks in big numbers.
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Coworker. Late fifties. Great guy. Terrible with money, but he knows it. Bought a brand new fancy truck about 3 years ago. Told me the interest rate was 12%. Used it for his 40 minute commute. His wife drove a minicooper bought used. Fast forward to last year. Trades in his 2 year old truck for another brand new truck. Payments are over $600/mon. Also trades in his wife's minicooper, which was about to be paid off, for a brand new car (forget which model). Between payments, gas, and insurance alone, he's got to be shelling out over $1,000/mon just on the truck for basic transportation. Damn.
I posted that two years ago. The saga continues. He just traded in THAT truck for a new 4x4 F250 with crewcab. Payment only $871/mon. Damn....
I'm in awe. I know people with mortgages lower than that. And the monthly payment doesn't even account for increased insurance payments and property taxes.
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Coworker. Late fifties. Great guy. Terrible with money, but he knows it. Bought a brand new fancy truck about 3 years ago. Told me the interest rate was 12%. Used it for his 40 minute commute. His wife drove a minicooper bought used. Fast forward to last year. Trades in his 2 year old truck for another brand new truck. Payments are over $600/mon. Also trades in his wife's minicooper, which was about to be paid off, for a brand new car (forget which model). Between payments, gas, and insurance alone, he's got to be shelling out over $1,000/mon just on the truck for basic transportation. Damn.
I posted that two years ago. The saga continues. He just traded in THAT truck for a new 4x4 F250 with crewcab. Payment only $871/mon. Damn....
I'm in awe. I know people with mortgages lower than that. And the monthly payment doesn't even account for increased insurance payments and property taxes.
Actually that is higher than my mortgage payment (not PITI though)
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Coworker. Late fifties. Great guy. Terrible with money, but he knows it. Bought a brand new fancy truck about 3 years ago. Told me the interest rate was 12%. Used it for his 40 minute commute. His wife drove a minicooper bought used. Fast forward to last year. Trades in his 2 year old truck for another brand new truck. Payments are over $600/mon. Also trades in his wife's minicooper, which was about to be paid off, for a brand new car (forget which model). Between payments, gas, and insurance alone, he's got to be shelling out over $1,000/mon just on the truck for basic transportation. Damn.
I posted that two years ago. The saga continues. He just traded in THAT truck for a new 4x4 F250 with crewcab. Payment only $871/mon. Damn....
I'm in awe. I know people with mortgages lower than that. And the monthly payment doesn't even account for increased insurance payments and property taxes.
Or maintenance and gas. Add them all up and it's approaching my monthly expenses in the same city. I talked to him last week. The fuel pump went out on his previous truck. The warranty was nearing it's end, so he thought it best to just trade it in. He plans on retiring in 7 years at 67. He has slowly worsening health problems though, so we'll see.
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Coworker. Late fifties. Great guy. Terrible with money, but he knows it. Bought a brand new fancy truck about 3 years ago. Told me the interest rate was 12%. Used it for his 40 minute commute. His wife drove a minicooper bought used. Fast forward to last year. Trades in his 2 year old truck for another brand new truck. Payments are over $600/mon. Also trades in his wife's minicooper, which was about to be paid off, for a brand new car (forget which model). Between payments, gas, and insurance alone, he's got to be shelling out over $1,000/mon just on the truck for basic transportation. Damn.
I posted that two years ago. The saga continues. He just traded in THAT truck for a new 4x4 F250 with crewcab. Payment only $871/mon. Damn....
That's a good house payment here! Priorities!
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I talked to him last week. The fuel pump went out on his previous truck. The warranty was nearing it's end, so he thought it best to just trade it in.
The same justification was just used by some friends of mine. They have newer trucks than mine but their tires, brakes and warranty were about done so "It makes sense to buy a new truck!" He and another friend went together and both got new trucks... They tried to convince me that it a great deal and I should also get a new one. "The trade in is amazing, there are looking for used trucks so are paying top dollar for trades...." Sometimes it is not worth trying to explain the math, after a few minutes of them trying to convince me that the cost of tires and other things that could go wrong justify this great deal. I just congratulated them on their purchases and thought to myself they are basically admitting that trucks are a money pit. Why in the world would they double down?
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I talked to him last week. The fuel pump went out on his previous truck. The warranty was nearing it's end, so he thought it best to just trade it in.
The same justification was just used by some friends of mine. They have newer trucks than mine but their tires, brakes and warranty were about done so "It makes sense to buy a new truck!" He and another friend went together and both got new trucks... They tried to convince me that it a great deal and I should also get a new one. "The trade in is amazing, there are looking for used trucks so are paying top dollar for trades...." Sometimes it is not worth trying to explain the math, after a few minutes of them trying to convince me that the cost of tires and other things that could go wrong justify this great deal. I just congratulated them on their purchases and thought to myself they are basically admitting that trucks are a money pit. Why in the world would they double down?
Next time just thank them for fullfilling the demand for vehicles some idiot has payed the brutal first years for.
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My SiL was visiting me and we were talking about cars. She asked me when I was going to replace my Toyota Camry "now that the one I have is paid off."
Um, I've only got 135,000 miles on it, not even close to done.
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My SiL was visiting me and we were talking about cars. She asked me when I was going to replace my Toyota Camry "now that the one I have is paid off."
Um, I've only got 135,000 miles on it, not even close to done.
My standard answer to that kind of question is, "If I can still get a $500 courtesy trade-in at at the dealer, I haven't driven it long enough!"
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My SiL was visiting me and we were talking about cars. She asked me when I was going to replace my Toyota Camry "now that the one I have is paid off."
Um, I've only got 135,000 miles on it, not even close to done.
A comment like that would have me looking at them like they had spaghetti growing out of their head. Not only is it antimustachian, but it's a complete non-sequitur!
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My SiL was visiting me and we were talking about cars. She asked me when I was going to replace my Toyota Camry "now that the one I have is paid off."
Um, I've only got 135,000 miles on it, not even close to done.
A comment like that would have me looking at them like they had spaghetti growing out of their head. Not only is it antimustachian, but it's a complete non-sequitur!
But.....!!! You'll ALWAYS have a car payment!! Right?
Jeesh, they sure will if they're dumb enough to volunteer for one!
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Sure new vehicles have a bunch of cool new features. But I don't think they justify the price tag.
My buddy's new truck has trailer backup assist (the truck turns the wheel for you)... How many times are you going to use that? Sure the few times I do pull a trailer it might be nice instead of me looking stupid taking a few tries to back up in a tight area. That might happen once or twice a year and if I did it more often I would be good at it and not need some fancy computer to park for me. Seeing that feature work in action was impressive and it shows the technology is really improving. Maybe in a few years decades nobody will be driving and owning vehicles we could all just have roaming autonomous vehicles to transport us around.
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Learned last week that one of our ex-students, who graduated 3 months ago, went out and bought an Audi after gettting a FT job. Earns probably $50-60k max. Was in a wreck last week and broke her arm. Will miss several weeks of work now.
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Learned last week that one of our ex-students, who graduated 3 months ago, went out and bought an Audi after gettting a FT job. Earns probably $50-60k max. Was in a wreck last week and broke her arm. Will miss several weeks of work now.
Perhaps the Audi logo is a chain symbol for a reason. Chained to lease/payments and/or repairs.
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My SiL was visiting me and we were talking about cars. She asked me when I was going to replace my Toyota Camry "now that the one I have is paid off."
Um, I've only got 135,000 miles on it, not even close to done.
A comment like that would have me looking at them like they had spaghetti growing out of their head. Not only is it antimustachian, but it's a complete non-sequitur!
But.....!!! You'll ALWAYS have a car payment!! Right?
Jeesh, they sure will if they're dumb enough to volunteer for one!
The bolded part... Anti-Mustachians act as if it's a great thing to have payments, but have a huge issue if the vehicle is paid off and there's extra money in their account. Somehow that is burning their pocket so it must be spent. Feckin Idjuts. But I thank them for making the manufacturers stock go high. Every little bit helps. I need the dividends.
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My SiL was visiting me and we were talking about cars. She asked me when I was going to replace my Toyota Camry "now that the one I have is paid off."
Um, I've only got 135,000 miles on it, not even close to done.
Right? Same. My 2006 Matrix still under 150k, but barely
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Learned last week that one of our ex-students, who graduated 3 months ago, went out and bought an Audi after gettting a FT job. Earns probably $50-60k max. Was in a wreck last week and broke her arm. Will miss several weeks of work now.
Perhaps the Audi logo is a chain symbol for a reason. Chained to lease/payments and/or repairs.
Bwahahahahaha! Snorted my drink out my nose when I read this....
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My SiL was visiting me and we were talking about cars. She asked me when I was going to replace my Toyota Camry "now that the one I have is paid off."
Um, I've only got 135,000 miles on it, not even close to done.
Right? Same. My 2006 Matrix still under 150k, but barely
My 2007 Vibe (same as the Matrix) has 186,000 - feel like it's just broken in!
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My SiL was visiting me and we were talking about cars. She asked me when I was going to replace my Toyota Camry "now that the one I have is paid off."
Um, I've only got 135,000 miles on it, not even close to done.
Right? Same. My 2006 Matrix still under 150k, but barely
My 2007 Vibe (same as the Matrix) has 186,000 - feel like it's just broken in!
You read my mind. Honda/Toyotas at ~150,000 miles are only mid-life or less. Especially so in the southern states.
Used to work in California in the mid-2000s. At car shows, would routinely see old cars modded, with mileage usually over 200k, and the owners would drive them for a couple hundred miles to weekend car shows quite frequently.
It's common around here for independent mechanics to ask if they can purchase your car when they notice it is well-maintained during service.
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My SiL was visiting me and we were talking about cars. She asked me when I was going to replace my Toyota Camry "now that the one I have is paid off."
Um, I've only got 135,000 miles on it, not even close to done.
Right? Same. My 2006 Matrix still under 150k, but barely
My 2007 Vibe (same as the Matrix) has 186,000 - feel like it's just broken in!
You read my mind. Honda/Toyotas at ~150,000 miles are only mid-life or less. Especially so in the southern states.
Used to work in California in the mid-2000s. At car shows, would routinely see old cars modded, with mileage usually over 200k, and the owners would drive them for a couple hundred miles to weekend car shows quite frequently.
It's common around here for independent mechanics to ask if they can purchase your car when they notice it is well-maintained during service.
My dealership bought my high mileage well maintained car to use as a loaner. I only sold it because it was a sedan and I needed a hatchback. I'm over 280,000 km on the hatchback
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My SiL was visiting me and we were talking about cars. She asked me when I was going to replace my Toyota Camry "now that the one I have is paid off."
Um, I've only got 135,000 miles on it, not even close to done.
Right? Same. My 2006 Matrix still under 150k, but barely
Ha! I’ve got you beat! My 2003 Matrix has 143,000 kilometres on it. Mostly highway. I still think of it as new.
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My high school friend calls them “LPTs: little penis trucks”.
Supposedly the average penis is a lot smaller than what the average man things the average penis is. Maybe Big Truck is surreptitiously convincing Americans that any penis under 10 inches is micro.
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My high school friend calls them “LPTs: little penis trucks”.
Supposedly the average penis is a lot smaller than what the average man things the average penis is. Maybe Big Truck is surreptitiously convincing Americans that any penis under 10 inches is micro.
Men see a lot of penises but few in a ... measurable... state. Women are the real experts on this one!
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My high school friend calls them “LPTs: little penis trucks”.
Supposedly the average penis is a lot smaller than what the average man things the average penis is. Maybe Big Truck is surreptitiously convincing Americans that any penis under 10 inches is micro.
Men see a lot of penises but few in a ... measurable... state. Women are the real experts on this one!
The thing that seems to get missed is that penis size is only half the story. “Insert tab A into slot B”... the relative sizes need to be compatible.
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My SiL was visiting me and we were talking about cars. She asked me when I was going to replace my Toyota Camry "now that the one I have is paid off."
Um, I've only got 135,000 miles on it, not even close to done.
Right? Same. My 2006 Matrix still under 150k, but barely
Ha! I’ve got you beat! My 2003 Matrix has 143,000 kilometres on it. Mostly highway. I still think of it as new.
I beat both of you. Even if I drove my car until I die I would probably not reach 143'000km.
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My SiL was visiting me and we were talking about cars. She asked me when I was going to replace my Toyota Camry "now that the one I have is paid off."
Um, I've only got 135,000 miles on it, not even close to done.
Right? Same. My 2006 Matrix still under 150k, but barely
My 2007 Vibe (same as the Matrix) has 186,000 - feel like it's just broken in!
You read my mind. Honda/Toyotas at ~150,000 miles are only mid-life or less. Especially so in the southern states.
Used to work in California in the mid-2000s. At car shows, would routinely see old cars modded, with mileage usually over 200k, and the owners would drive them for a couple hundred miles to weekend car shows quite frequently.
It's common around here for independent mechanics to ask if they can purchase your car when they notice it is well-maintained during service.
I felt like buying the car new was an extravagance, but I'm twelve years in and--under pandemic lifestyle--hardly driving it at all. Having a car that needed payments would be the true extravagance.
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I drive a small hatchback. Sometimes people give me a hard time for not driving a big truck. I tell them I'm compensating for something.
;)
Not everyone gets it.
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I do have a nice, little taxable investment account from which I'm receiving about $4/day in dividends. It has sometimes occurred to me that I could attempt to lease something small--perhaps a Honda Fit--based on the income coming out of that account.
When we discussed it in 2008, my fiancée thought leasing was dumb. I doubt the intervening years of marriage have changed her mind.
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I do have a nice, little taxable investment account from which I'm receiving about $4/day in dividends. It has sometimes occurred to me that I could attempt to lease something small--perhaps a Honda Fit--based on the income coming out of that account.
When we discussed it in 2008, my fiancée thought leasing was dumb. I doubt the intervening years of marriage have changed her mind.
Why would it change her mind? Leasing almost always is a dumb financial move!
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I drive a small hatchback. Sometimes people give me a hard time for not driving a big truck. I tell them I'm compensating for something.
;)
Not everyone gets it.
Try waggling your eyebrows when you say it.
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I drive a small hatchback. Sometimes people give me a hard time for not driving a big truck. I tell them I'm compensating for something.
;)
Not everyone gets it.
Try waggling your eyebrows when you say it.
Certainly better than waggling somthing else. That could be dangerous.
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I drive a small hatchback. Sometimes people give me a hard time for not driving a big truck. I tell them I'm compensating for something.
;)
Not everyone gets it.
Try waggling your eyebrows when you say it.
And smirking a bit.
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I drive a small hatchback. Sometimes people give me a hard time for not driving a big truck. I tell them I'm compensating for something.
;)
Not everyone gets it.
I drove a Yamaha Vino 125 scooter for six years.
Loved that scooter -- and my gas bill was like $2.75 a month
I used almost the same line when people asked me when I was going to get a real motorcycle--- I told them I was undercompensating
;-)
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I drive a small hatchback. Sometimes people give me a hard time for not driving a big truck. I tell them I'm compensating for something.
;)
Not everyone gets it.
Try waggling your eyebrows when you say it.
Certainly better than waggling somthing else. That could be dangerous.
Licking your eyebrows is an attention getter!
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I do have a nice, little taxable investment account from which I'm receiving about $4/day in dividends. It has sometimes occurred to me that I could attempt to lease something small--perhaps a Honda Fit--based on the income coming out of that account.
When we discussed it in 2008, my fiancée thought leasing was dumb. I doubt the intervening years of marriage have changed her mind.
Why would it change her mind? Leasing almost always is a dumb financial move!
I will acknowledge that I am grateful to not be making lease payments on a car that I don't need during this work-from-home time of my life.
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Coworkers were talking about buying things at the one and only Costco in China, which is an hour away by car. They don’t have a car so it would involve splitting the cost of a $80 van and driver, or $60 taxi. Now, they’ve discovered that someone will do Costco runs for them and then deliver to their home for a mere 10% markup.
I tried to tell them that for many things, you can buy direct from the Costco warehouse (or whatever factory supplies Costco) On Taobao, as long as you Google translate the item into Chinese, and the prices are about the same as physically going to Costco. But apparently it takes too much effort to use Google translate.
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Coworkers were talking about buying things at the one and only Costco in China, which is an hour away by car. They don’t have a car so it would involve splitting the cost of a $80 van and driver, or $60 taxi. Now, they’ve discovered that someone will do Costco runs for them and then deliver to their home for a mere 10% markup.
I tried to tell them that for many things, you can buy direct from the Costco warehouse (or whatever factory supplies Costco) On Taobao, as long as you Google translate the item into Chinese, and the prices are about the same as physically going to Costco. But apparently it takes too much effort to use Google translate.
And you can't possibly learn the words/characters for commonly bought items...
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Coworkers were talking about buying things at the one and only Costco in China, which is an hour away by car. They don’t have a car so it would involve splitting the cost of a $80 van and driver, or $60 taxi. Now, they’ve discovered that someone will do Costco runs for them and then deliver to their home for a mere 10% markup.
I tried to tell them that for many things, you can buy direct from the Costco warehouse (or whatever factory supplies Costco) On Taobao, as long as you Google translate the item into Chinese, and the prices are about the same as physically going to Costco. But apparently it takes too much effort to use Google translate.
And you can't possibly learn the words/characters for commonly bought items...
Actually, I just realized that they could just take a picture of the packaging. Taobao has a picture recognition program and will search for images that look similar. It doesn’t work perfectly, but for many things you don’t even need to know any Chinese if you’ve bought the item before. But that would involve saving money and learning how to navigate a Chinese app. That’s too stressful.
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To be fair google translate is dangerous. You might end up getting a visit from the police.
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Actually, I just realized that they could just take a picture of the packaging. Taobao has a picture recognition program and will search for images that look similar.
That's what I do, but all I get is a bunch of hotdocs and a few not hotdogs.
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Coworkers were talking about buying things at the one and only Costco in China, which is an hour away by car. They don’t have a car so it would involve splitting the cost of a $80 van and driver, or $60 taxi. Now, they’ve discovered that someone will do Costco runs for them and then deliver to their home for a mere 10% markup.
I tried to tell them that for many things, you can buy direct from the Costco warehouse (or whatever factory supplies Costco) On Taobao, as long as you Google translate the item into Chinese, and the prices are about the same as physically going to Costco. But apparently it takes too much effort to use Google translate.
And you can't possibly learn the words/characters for commonly bought items...
Actually, I just realized that they could just take a picture of the packaging. Taobao has a picture recognition program and will search for images that look similar. It doesn’t work perfectly, but for many things you don’t even need to know any Chinese if you’ve bought the item before. But that would involve saving money and learning how to navigate a Chinese app. That’s too stressful.
I do not understand why people choose to live in a foreign country, and refuse to even try. My mother SUCKS at languages, but she still tries. Of course, the last time she lived abroad, she would have totally hired a driver rather than use a computer, but even she likes internet shopping now!
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Someone at work who is up to his eyeballs in credit card debt (and works two jobs to keep up with the bills) told me that he'd been day-trading in his 401(k) back in March when the market was down, and wound up making five figures in profit.
All right, market timing is bad, but he got lucky this time, good for him.
But then he said that because the CARES act now lets you withdraw penalty-free from your 401(k), he was thinking of taking his earnings, and buying a new car.
*headdesk*
I told him that it was a terrible idea to tap the 401(k) because it was precious tax-advantaged space, but if he were to do that, he should really pay off his credit card debt first.
He looked like I'd just kicked his puppy.
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Co-worker cashed in their taxable account back in March (oops!) - still not back in the market (too volatile). His wife is now commuting 1+ hrs away instead of working at the office 10 min away, so they are going to sell the old VW, lease a new BMW, and buy a used BMW.
Not to mention that co-worker does not max the 401k or have an IRA, but still had a taxable!
Sometimes this mustachian life makes you wonder how people even make it through the day.
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Coworker was asking me if it was smart to use the CARES act to withdraw some money. I asked what it would be for and he said a root canal that is $2300.
Dude makes over 140K a year, 2 kids in private school, supporting another kid who wants to be a singer. Spouse doesnt work. Has been working remotely for 6 months, so no commute or lunch expenses. He has been complaining about this dental thing since JANUARY.
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Coworker was asking me if it was smart to use the CARES act to withdraw some money. I asked what it would be for and he said a root canal that is $2300.
Dude makes over 140K a year, 2 kids in private school, supporting another kid who wants to be a singer. Spouse doesnt work. Has been working remotely for 6 months, so no commute or lunch expenses. He has been complaining about this dental thing since JANUARY.
My husband has a very difficult coworker...just hard to work with.
He's very highly paid, probably close to $200k a year would be my guess. My husband's company doesn't provide dental insurance - they have HSA/HDHP.
Anyway...the guy took some time off a few weeks ago, said he was going to be out for several days, if not a full week, due to dental issues. "I guess I should have been going to the dentist these 20 years". Um, yeah dude. You know your HSA can be used to pay a damn dentist...
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Someone at work who is up to his eyeballs in credit card debt (and works two jobs to keep up with the bills) told me that he'd been day-trading in his 401(k) back in March when the market was down, and wound up making five figures in profit.
All right, market timing is bad, but he got lucky this time, good for him.
But then he said that because the CARES act now lets you withdraw penalty-free from your 401(k), he was thinking of taking his earnings, and buying a new car.
*headdesk*
I told him that it was a terrible idea to tap the 401(k) because it was precious tax-advantaged space, but if he were to do that, he should really pay off his credit card debt first.
He looked like I'd just kicked his puppy.
Of course! After all that hard work he deserves that car and would like to have your okay for that, so the tiny voice inside him telling that this is stupid is silent.
What I don't understand is why people sell when it's really low.
I have the problem that I not sell when I should because it's slightly in the red even though I know it will go down more. I don't sell because I don't want to make the loss.
Why aren't people refusing to sell then when it is a big loss??
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Someone at work who is up to his eyeballs in credit card debt (and works two jobs to keep up with the bills) told me that he'd been day-trading in his 401(k) back in March when the market was down, and wound up making five figures in profit.
All right, market timing is bad, but he got lucky this time, good for him.
But then he said that because the CARES act now lets you withdraw penalty-free from your 401(k), he was thinking of taking his earnings, and buying a new car.
*headdesk*
I told him that it was a terrible idea to tap the 401(k) because it was precious tax-advantaged space, but if he were to do that, he should really pay off his credit card debt first.
He looked like I'd just kicked his puppy.
I still occasionally listen to Dave Ramsey and I can't believe how many people call in with questions about using their 401(k) as an ATM because of the CARES act. Always to buy this-or-that (rather than trying to survive and avoid bankruptcy or foreclosure) and always without a thought that they will still have to pay income tax on what they withdraw. It is a constant reminder that there will always be those who do dumb things and then will complain later when they have no retirement money. I am sure they will chalk their failures up to the "stock market casino" or that the government didn't bail them out properly. Exhausting.
And don't forget the "everything is so complicated for ordinary folks these days" bla bla. While it's partially true that some things have become more complicated, money management the way my grandparents with only a couple of years of education did it still works.
They sat down with a notebooks when Grandpa got paid. They'd put aside money for rent and the electricity meter, then calculated what was left. They took out the housekeeping money that my grandma put in her purse, they put some money in a jar that they set aside for the yearly delivery of coal. What was left was divided between budgets for clothing, household expenses and saving. Every time they made a purchase they'd meticulously record it in their notebook so they knew exactly how much was left. And they always tried very much not to touch the small amount of savings so they could take it to the bank at the end of the month. They didn't take out a loan in their entire life because loans = bad and they didn't buy financial products they didn't understand.
Living like this, you're not going to FIRE at 30 but you will thrive financially. All you need is a notebook, elementary level math skills and discipline.
When they died we found a box full of envelopes with small amounts of cash - used envelopes of course, labelled with "birthday" or "Christmas" or "hairdresser" in a very neat handwriting. They budgeted for everything and didn't spend more than they could afford.
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When they died we found a box full of envelopes with small amounts of cash - used envelopes of course, labelled with "birthday" or "Christmas" or "hairdresser" in a very neat handwriting. They budgeted for everything and didn't spend more than they could afford.
Same with my grandparents; they had envelopes hidden all over the house. Having cash on hand rather than plastic was also a big part of that generation's financial planning.
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When they died we found a box full of envelopes with small amounts of cash - used envelopes of course, labelled with "birthday" or "Christmas" or "hairdresser" in a very neat handwriting. They budgeted for everything and didn't spend more than they could afford.
Same with my grandparents; they had envelopes hidden all over the house. Having cash on hand rather than plastic was also a big part of that generation's financial planning.
One of my cousins does this. They have a shoe box full of envelopes with labels for different stuff they budget for. Seems like a pain in the ass to me - but probably effective. Probably healthier than my method of intense guilt and self doubt with every purchase no matter how much money I have, save, or budget for.
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When they died we found a box full of envelopes with small amounts of cash - used envelopes of course, labelled with "birthday" or "Christmas" or "hairdresser" in a very neat handwriting. They budgeted for everything and didn't spend more than they could afford.
Same with my grandparents; they had envelopes hidden all over the house. Having cash on hand rather than plastic was also a big part of that generation's financial planning.
One of my cousins does this. They have a shoe box full of envelopes with labels for different stuff they budget for. Seems like a pain in the ass to me - but probably effective. Probably healthier than my method of intense guilt and self doubt with every purchase no matter how much money I have, save, or budget for.
We were talking at work this morning about how some of us were going to just stick our "bonus" from that stupid payroll tax deferral into our savings account. One person said that he's going to hate seeing the bank account go down next year. I realized that since I've already set up an Ally bucket for it, I don't think I'll have that problem. I hate spending undesignated money, but as long as I have already earmarked money for something, I don't have a problem actually spending it (except the emergency fund....I did everything I could to justify not dipping into the emergency fund in the aftermath of a tornado...go figure).
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When they died we found a box full of envelopes with small amounts of cash - used envelopes of course, labelled with "birthday" or "Christmas" or "hairdresser" in a very neat handwriting. They budgeted for everything and didn't spend more than they could afford.
Same with my grandparents; they had envelopes hidden all over the house. Having cash on hand rather than plastic was also a big part of that generation's financial planning.
One of my cousins does this. They have a shoe box full of envelopes with labels for different stuff they budget for. Seems like a pain in the ass to me - but probably effective. Probably healthier than my method of intense guilt and self doubt with every purchase no matter how much money I have, save, or budget for.
We were talking at work this morning about how some of us were going to just stick our "bonus" from that stupid payroll tax deferral into our savings account. One person said that he's going to hate seeing the bank account go down next year. I realized that since I've already set up an Ally bucket for it, I don't think I'll have that problem. I hate spending undesignated money, but as long as I have already earmarked money for something, I don't have a problem actually spending it (except the emergency fund....I did everything I could to justify not dipping into the emergency fund in the aftermath of a tornado...go figure).
Totally with you on being ok spending from my sinking fund savings account, it totally pained me to send myself a “paycheck” from my emergency fund during the last government shit down. I kept say, just because I have an emergency fund doesn’t mean I want to use it.
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When they died we found a box full of envelopes with small amounts of cash - used envelopes of course, labelled with "birthday" or "Christmas" or "hairdresser" in a very neat handwriting. They budgeted for everything and didn't spend more than they could afford.
Same with my grandparents; they had envelopes hidden all over the house. Having cash on hand rather than plastic was also a big part of that generation's financial planning.
One of my cousins does this. They have a shoe box full of envelopes with labels for different stuff they budget for. Seems like a pain in the ass to me - but probably effective. Probably healthier than my method of intense guilt and self doubt with every purchase no matter how much money I have, save, or budget for.
We were talking at work this morning about how some of us were going to just stick our "bonus" from that stupid payroll tax deferral into our savings account. One person said that he's going to hate seeing the bank account go down next year. I realized that since I've already set up an Ally bucket for it, I don't think I'll have that problem. I hate spending undesignated money, but as long as I have already earmarked money for something, I don't have a problem actually spending it (except the emergency fund....I did everything I could to justify not dipping into the emergency fund in the aftermath of a tornado...go figure).
I pay estimated quarterly taxes as a contractor, and that’s exactly how I manage the tax savings. Every time I get paid, a flat percentage goes straight into the “Taxes” bucket, and then I transfer the needed payment amount into checking every 3 months. If there’s any leftover, it gets invested after we file our year-end paperwork.
Before we switched to Ally, I had a separate savings account just for taxes. Either way, it’s helpful to have the money earmarked and know that spending it won’t affect your emergency or other funds.
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Someone at work who is up to his eyeballs in credit card debt (and works two jobs to keep up with the bills) told me that he'd been day-trading in his 401(k) back in March when the market was down, and wound up making five figures in profit.
All right, market timing is bad, but he got lucky this time, good for him.
But then he said that because the CARES act now lets you withdraw penalty-free from your 401(k), he was thinking of taking his earnings, and buying a new car.
*headdesk*
I told him that it was a terrible idea to tap the 401(k) because it was precious tax-advantaged space, but if he were to do that, he should really pay off his credit card debt first.
He looked like I'd just kicked his puppy.
Of course! After all that hard work he deserves that car and would like to have your okay for that, so the tiny voice inside him telling that this is stupid is silent.
Ugh, it's worse than that. He's not just looking for my approval, he actively wants to impress me with how much money he has/makes, and what he does with it. He's very proud of his hot stock picks, and was quite disappointed when I turned down his investment advice on a different occasion. He thinks he's so financially savvy, but he has no idea who he's talking to, and he's too self-centered to ever take me seriously.
What I don't understand is why people sell when it's really low.
I have the problem that I not sell when I should because it's slightly in the red even though I know it will go down more. I don't sell because I don't want to make the loss.
Why aren't people refusing to sell then when it is a big loss??
A coworker liquidated all the stock in his 401(k) in February (after the market had started to fall, but before it hit rock bottom), and put it all in bonds. He is nearing (normal) retirement age, was losing sleep over the volatility, and said that bailing made him feel so much better. I'm not gonna judge him, I actually feel a lot of compassion for him, because he's a lovely person, and I'm rooting for his financial health and eventual retirement. The core issue is that his asset allocation did not reflect his risk tolerance, so he panic-sold. I have no clue if/when he got back in. Loss aversion is a powerful driver.
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DS18 works part-time as a lifeguard at an outdoor pool. Obviously, it's important that staff keep hydrated. He has a coworker who drinks off-brand Gatorade because "I'm all about saving money." Other coworkers razz him for buying the knockoff, to which he replies, "It's cheaper than water!"
In the guard room there's a free water cooler.
Which would also be a lot more healthier than sports drinks in big numbers.
I bought a pH tester and needed distilled water to calibrate it. I went to Walmart, a gallon of distilled water is $0.81. While waiting in line, the couple in front of me both got a 16oz bottle of water at $1.88 each. $3.76 for 1/4 gallon.
Well, it was convienient!
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What do you do with all that leftover distilled water you don't need? (as I type this, I'm ironically taking a couple of pulls from my massive cup of iced coffee)
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Found out that some of my coworkers don't take advantage of paid company parking because it's too far away and they're usually running late. And so they pay for street parking...mostly. Today they both got parking tickets.
I did the math, and parking costs them about $1,000 a year! With even one parking ticket a month it's about $1,200
over the course of the year!
The kicker is our supervisor isn't a stickler at all about our in times and it takes me less than 3 minutes to get from the parking spot to the office.
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What do you do with all that leftover distilled water you don't need? (as I type this, I'm ironically taking a couple of pulls from my massive cup of iced coffee)
You can use it in your iron or steamer, or coffee machine
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In the coffee machine? To do what?
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In the coffee machine? To do what?
Make coffee?!
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In the coffee machine? To do what?
Make coffee?!
Apparently the coffee gurus out there consider using distilled or RO water bad for coffee flavor, but I like not having to descale my machine (or at least less often). I'm mostly in it for the caffeine anyway given that I let the grounds sit OVERNIGHT in the basket before the timer starts the brew.
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I was never a coffee guru. But I was advised to never drink destilled water.
This might be an urban legend, never followed up on it.
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I was never a coffee guru. But I was advised to never drink destilled water.
This might be an urban legend, never followed up on it.
You can drink distilled water just fine. It is just that if you do not eat or drink anything else, you will lack in minerals. But if you eat well otherwise, distilled water is no problem.
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I was never a coffee guru. But I was advised to never drink destilled water.
This might be an urban legend, never followed up on it.
You can drink distilled water just fine. It is just that if you do not eat or drink anything else, you will lack in minerals. But if you eat well otherwise, distilled water is no problem.
A valuable lesson about the need to challenge knowledge.
I think I'll try my coffee brewed with destilled water!
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I was never a coffee guru. But I was advised to never drink destilled water.
This might be an urban legend, never followed up on it.
There's an idea out there that drinking distilled water might leach minerals from your body, because it has none and .... osmosis? God knows. Anyhoo, that's not really how water behave when you drink it. As far as your body is concerned, it's just water. Your body doesn't let valuable minerals wander around and leave through urine, unless there's something quite wrong.
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I was never a coffee guru. But I was advised to never drink destilled water.
This might be an urban legend, never followed up on it.
You can drink distilled water just fine. It is just that if you do not eat or drink anything else, you will lack in minerals. But if you eat well otherwise, distilled water is no problem.
++
Drinking nothing but distilled water might cause issues longer term (lack of fluoride among them) - I certainly wouldn't worry about drinking some as part of a varied diet.
Brewing coffee with water means the water leaches soluble materials including minerals out of the coffee beans - it's certainly not going to be distilled anymore after it's been through the brew basket! Distilled water should be more efficient at extracting certain compounds, so I can see how flavor would be altered.
Distilled water can cause plumbing issues if not allowed for - brass works great for standard water, but distilled water will slowly leach out the zinc from the brass (typically would still take years though.)
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Distilled water just doesn't taste particularly good. It's just...bland (and I love water - it's just about all I drink).
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We drink remineralized reverse osmosis at home. When travelling, DH considers distilled water an acceptable substitute. He's a water snob - Nestle bottled spring water is disgusting lol
Sent from my VCE-AL00 using Tapatalk
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Distilled water just doesn't taste particularly good. It's just...bland (and I love water - it's just about all I drink).
Taste like watered down water
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Distilled water just doesn't taste particularly good. It's just...bland (and I love water - it's just about all I drink).
Taste like watered down water
LOL!!
Still, water does taste different everywhere, even if u are drinking tap water at different houses in the same city.
I was happy drinking our tap water at home for years. Then DH installed the fancy RO system. I actually didn't like the taste in the beginning. Of course, now I am used to it and no longer like our tap water.
Sent from my VCE-AL00 using Tapatalk
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I tried using distilled water in my iron, but it just caused it to leak out into black foam that looked orange so you could see it better.
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I tried using distilled water in my iron, but it just caused it to leak out into black foam that looked orange so you could see it better.
What did the investigators have to say?
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I drive a small hatchback. Sometimes people give me a hard time for not driving a big truck. I tell them I'm compensating for something.
;)
Not everyone gets it.
ooooh I'm definitely stealing this!
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What I don't understand is why people sell when it's really low.
I have the problem that I not sell when I should because it's slightly in the red even though I know it will go down more. I don't sell because I don't want to make the loss.
Why aren't people refusing to sell then when it is a big loss??
Because it's never clear how close we are to the bottom of the drop. People see their portfolio dropping in value at an alarming rate and fear that it will continue dropping at that rate, so they pull their money out before it loses any more value. The "big loss" doesn't seem big when weighed against the hypothetically bigger loss that they think they'll incur if they *don't* sell.
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What I don't understand is why people sell when it's really low.
I have the problem that I not sell when I should because it's slightly in the red even though I know it will go down more. I don't sell because I don't want to make the loss.
Why aren't people refusing to sell then when it is a big loss??
Because it's never clear how close we are to the bottom of the drop. People see their portfolio dropping in value at an alarming rate and fear that it will continue dropping at that rate, so they pull their money out before it loses any more value. The "big loss" doesn't seem big when weighed against the hypothetically bigger loss that they think they'll incur if they *don't* sell.
A lot of people DO sell when the immediate spot price for their stocks drops big time.
Why don't I sell?
Because I don't confuse "the immediate spot price for my stocks" as the "value of my holdings", that's why.
I'll give an example using things we all understand, cars.
I buy a really cool antique car for $20,000. I drive it to work where a colleague sees it and admires it. We'll call him Sam.
Sam offers to buy the car for $30,000 because he loves this type of car and has always wanted them. I think about it for a minute and then turn him down.
That night, I go home and say, "Honey, Sam said he would pay $30,000 for our antique car!!! We just made $10,000!!!"
We're both very happy about how much money we just made.
A month goes by and I come out to my car to find a note on it from someone who wants to buy it for $15,000, but some water splashed on their phone number, so I can't find them. "OMG!!!! We just lost $15,000!!!! We better sell our car to the first person we can find to buy it, before we lose even more!!!"
Substitute "car" with the word "stock" and you'll see how most Americans view their stock holdings.
Now, hopefully, a few things were obvious. I didn't make a single penny when Sam offered me an immediate spot price of $30,000. Why? Because I didn't sell the car.
Nor did I lose money when I learned that some stranger only wanted to pay $15,000 for the car, again because I didn't sell it to them.
In both cases, I still owned the car and it's worth whatever it's worth.
Maybe it's the kind of antique that will grow in value over the years and maybe its' the kind that won't age well. I dunno. But that's got nothing to do with the immediate spot price I'm offered at various times.
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Great analogy, SwordGuy!
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Actually it's not that great of an analogy. In the car example one is likely to be able to find a buyer for the "true" value of the car.
For stocks, this isn't true. Whatever the spot price (or somewhere near that) is what you will be able to sell them for if you need to sell anytime soon.
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Actually it's not that great of an analogy. In the car example one is likely to be able to find a buyer for the "true" value of the car.
For stocks, this isn't true. Whatever the spot price (or somewhere near that) is what you will be able to sell them for if you need to sell anytime soon.
You may have to wait awhile before you find the right buyer, which is like buying and holding until the market is up again.
All offers to purchase are spot-prices. :)
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Actually it's not that great of an analogy. In the car example one is likely to be able to find a buyer for the "true" value of the car.
For stocks, this isn't true. Whatever the spot price (or somewhere near that) is what you will be able to sell them for if you need to sell anytime soon.
You will still own the car even if the price drops to zero or if no one wants the car(you could still sell it for scrap or piece it out). With stocks if the company delists or goes bankrupt you end up holding nothing. Being a buy and hold forever investor I have had that happen a few times with individual stocks. Since switching to investing in index funds this hasn't happened again.
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Dudes. Really. Stocks aren't cars. We all get that. Even I , who gave the example, get that.
The example was to illustrate HOW REGULAR PEOPLE VIEW STOCKS in such a way that would make it extremely clear to them WHAT THEY GOT WRONG in their thinking about stocks.
It's purpose is to help explain why panicking about a drop in the spot price is foolish and stupid in a way they will both intellectually and emotionally grasp.
That's it. No more. No less.
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Dudes. Really. Stocks aren't cars. We all get that. Even I , who gave the example, get that.
The example was to illustrate HOW REGULAR PEOPLE VIEW STOCKS in such a way that would make it extremely clear to them WHAT THEY GOT WRONG in their thinking about stocks.
It's purpose is to help explain why panicking about a drop in the spot price is foolish and stupid in a way they will both intellectually and emotionally grasp.
That's it. No more. No less.
One goes vroom vroom.
The other doesn't.
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Dudes. Really. Stocks aren't cars. We all get that. Even I , who gave the example, get that.
The example was to illustrate HOW REGULAR PEOPLE VIEW STOCKS in such a way that would make it extremely clear to them WHAT THEY GOT WRONG in their thinking about stocks.
It's purpose is to help explain why panicking about a drop in the spot price is foolish and stupid in a way they will both intellectually and emotionally grasp.
That's it. No more. No less.
I can't drive stocks to work to make more money to buy better stocks, so your comparison is invalid
/troll
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One goes vroom vroom.
The other doesn't.
https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/vrm
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But what about stock cars?!?! Isn’t that what investing is? Stock car racing?
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But what about stock cars?!?! Isn’t that what investing is? Stock car racing?
What if I buy Ford and GM stocks to see which makes the most money, is that Car Stock racing?
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Dudes. Really. Stocks aren't cars. We all get that. Even I , who gave the example, get that.
The example was to illustrate HOW REGULAR PEOPLE VIEW STOCKS in such a way that would make it extremely clear to them WHAT THEY GOT WRONG in their thinking about stocks.
It's purpose is to help explain why panicking about a drop in the spot price is foolish and stupid in a way they will both intellectually and emotionally grasp.
That's it. No more. No less.
One goes vroom vroom.
The other doesn't.
R/wallstreetbets goes vroom vroom on TSLA.
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Dudes. Really. Stocks aren't cars. We all get that. Even I , who gave the example, get that.
The example was to illustrate HOW REGULAR PEOPLE VIEW STOCKS in such a way that would make it extremely clear to them WHAT THEY GOT WRONG in their thinking about stocks.
It's purpose is to help explain why panicking about a drop in the spot price is foolish and stupid in a way they will both intellectually and emotionally grasp.
That's it. No more. No less.
One goes vroom vroom.
The other doesn't.
But they both crash from time to time.
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But wait, Teslas *don't* go vroom vroom.
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But wait, Teslas *don't* go vroom vroom.
https://www.vroom.com/cars/tesla
https://insideevs.com/news/423722/video-tesla-model-3-exhaust-noise/
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But wait, Teslas *don't* go vroom vroom.
They are legally mandated to go *something* though. But what the Teslas say I don't know. Or what the mech says.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
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But wait, Teslas *don't* go vroom vroom.
Yet. If they think that people want to hear vroom vroom, then they'll have the computer play vroom vroom over external facing speakers.
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Do stocks ever rust out?
j/k, j/k...
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I tried using distilled water in my iron, but it just caused it to leak out into black foam that looked orange so you could see it better.
What did the investigators have to say?
Not sure, they vroomed off in a stock certificate.
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I tried using distilled water in my iron, but it just caused it to leak out into black foam that looked orange so you could see it better.
This has been bugging me all day. Can someone explain the joke?
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I tried using distilled water in my iron, but it just caused it to leak out into black foam that looked orange so you could see it better.
This has been bugging me all day. Can someone explain the joke?
Several years ago in this thread there was a rather length off-topic discussion of airplane "black boxes" and how they're actually orange, and related stuff. Since then, such off-topic posts came to be known as "foam."
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I tried using distilled water in my iron, but it just caused it to leak out into black foam that looked orange so you could see it better.
This has been bugging me all day. Can someone explain the joke?
Several years ago in this thread there was a rather length off-topic discussion of airplane "black boxes" and how they're actually orange, and related stuff. Since then, such off-topic posts came to be known as "foam."
It was only like 2 pages, people. Get over it!
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/msg434327/#msg434327
Also, reading that it doesn't seem to be the origin of the foam. Can't remember where that started.
Ok I found it. Started a few pages earlier after off-topic discussion of espresso foam. YOU'RE WELCOME
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/msg412005/#msg412005
Do I now receive a PhD in Mustachian History?
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I sometimes wonder if MMM reads this stuff, and what he might think of it when he does. And yes, you get a PhD in Mustachian History.
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I sometimes wonder if MMM reads this stuff, and what he might think of it when he does. And yes, you get a PhD in Mustachian History.
He created his own Matrix. ;-)
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I tried using distilled water in my iron, but it just caused it to leak out into black foam that looked orange so you could see it better.
This has been bugging me all day. Can someone explain the joke?
Several years ago in this thread there was a rather length off-topic discussion of airplane "black boxes" and how they're actually orange, and related stuff. Since then, such off-topic posts came to be known as "foam."
It was only like 2 pages, people. Get over it!
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/msg434327/#msg434327
Also, reading that it doesn't seem to be the origin of the foam. Can't remember where that started.
Ok I found it. Started a few pages earlier after off-topic discussion of espresso foam. YOU'RE WELCOME
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/msg412005/#msg412005
Do I now receive a PhD in Mustachian History?
THANK YOU
But seriously, now that you've done the work I think it would be fun to have a Forum History thread in the "Forum Information & FAQs" section.
They're almost like Forum Inside Jokes. What other inside jokes do we have?
-
I tried using distilled water in my iron, but it just caused it to leak out into black foam that looked orange so you could see it better.
This has been bugging me all day. Can someone explain the joke?
Several years ago in this thread there was a rather length off-topic discussion of airplane "black boxes" and how they're actually orange, and related stuff. Since then, such off-topic posts came to be known as "foam."
It was only like 2 pages, people. Get over it!
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/msg434327/#msg434327
Also, reading that it doesn't seem to be the origin of the foam. Can't remember where that started.
Ok I found it. Started a few pages earlier after off-topic discussion of espresso foam. YOU'RE WELCOME
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/overheard-at-work/msg412005/#msg412005
Do I now receive a PhD in Mustachian History?
THANK YOU
But seriously, now that you've done the work I think it would be fun to have a Forum History thread in the "Forum Information & FAQs" section.
They're almost like Forum Inside Jokes. What other inside jokes do we have?
@sol's blender thread should make the list
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Dudes. Really. Stocks aren't cars. We all get that. Even I , who gave the example, get that.
The example was to illustrate HOW REGULAR PEOPLE VIEW STOCKS in such a way that would make it extremely clear to them WHAT THEY GOT WRONG in their thinking about stocks.
It's purpose is to help explain why panicking about a drop in the spot price is foolish and stupid in a way they will both intellectually and emotionally grasp.
That's it. No more. No less.
I can't drive stocks to work to make more money to buy better stocks, so your comparison is invalid
/troll
I need a bumper sticker that says "My Other Ride is an Investment Vehicle"
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Dudes. Really. Stocks aren't cars. We all get that. Even I , who gave the example, get that.
The example was to illustrate HOW REGULAR PEOPLE VIEW STOCKS in such a way that would make it extremely clear to them WHAT THEY GOT WRONG in their thinking about stocks.
It's purpose is to help explain why panicking about a drop in the spot price is foolish and stupid in a way they will both intellectually and emotionally grasp.
That's it. No more. No less.
I can't drive stocks to work to make more money to buy better stocks, so your comparison is invalid
/troll
I need a bumper sticker that says "My Other Ride is an Investment Vehicle"
I need this sticker for my bike.
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Dudes. Really. Stocks aren't cars. We all get that. Even I , who gave the example, get that.
The example was to illustrate HOW REGULAR PEOPLE VIEW STOCKS in such a way that would make it extremely clear to them WHAT THEY GOT WRONG in their thinking about stocks.
It's purpose is to help explain why panicking about a drop in the spot price is foolish and stupid in a way they will both intellectually and emotionally grasp.
That's it. No more. No less.
I can't drive stocks to work to make more money to buy better stocks, so your comparison is invalid
/troll
I need a bumper sticker that says "My Other Ride is an Investment Vehicle"
@Valley of Plenty , that's awesome!!!!! I'm making that sign to put on my quadracycle surrey bike!!!
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I tried using distilled water in my iron, but it just caused it to leak out into black foam that looked orange so you could see it better.
This has been bugging me all day. Can someone explain the joke?
Several years ago in this thread there was a rather length off-topic discussion of airplane "black boxes" and how they're actually orange, and related stuff. Since then, such off-topic posts came to be known as "foam."
Don't forget the dress. Wasn't there a dress involved?
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To drag this back on topic, and mention cars....a coworker mentioned that they have *hundreds* of dollars in parking tickets. From not parking in the PAID COMPANY PARKING.
Company parking is the same distance from the work site as the on-street parking where they got the tickets. They paid for some parking, but the meter expired and they got tickets. So they lost the money they paid for parking and the money for the tickets. Hundreds of dollars. Every year they work there.
Our parking is paid for by the company. The times I haven't had a parking pass with me, the manager reimbursed me immediately out of petty cash.
Yet this person keeps parking on the street and getting tickets. #headdesk
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To drag this back on topic, and mention cars....a coworker mentioned that they have *hundreds* of dollars in parking tickets. From not parking in the PAID COMPANY PARKING.
Company parking is the same distance from the work site as the on-street parking where they got the tickets. They paid for some parking, but the meter expired and they got tickets. So they lost the money they paid for parking and the money for the tickets. Hundreds of dollars. Every year they work there.
Our parking is paid for by the company. The times I haven't had a parking pass with me, the manager reimbursed me immediately out of petty cash.
Yet this person keeps parking on the street and getting tickets. #headdesk
Some people are just crazy when it comes to parking where they want to park, no matter what. I have a coworker whose car was towed earlier this year for thousands (not exaggerating) in unpaid tickets and fines. They live in the city and could take the bus to work, but instead want to drive their special car and park right out front, then forget about it. Well, now they are on a payment plan with the PPA to pay it all off. This same person, of course, takes every opportunity to complain about their low pay at work and how it isn't enough to live on.
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A co-worker on Friday was talking about how they went to the dealership checking out the new 2021 F150's since his 2018 F150 is about to hit 100,000KM. He was excited about a bunch of new options on the truck like the new bigger touch screen, and the built in power inverter so you can simply plug in a bunch of electronics etc.. He told the dealership to sign him up for one as long as they can keep the same payments. I can't understand how he doesn't see that those monthly payments add up to a lot of money and he is paying for the highest deprecation years of ownership over and over again. I tried to explain that to him, but could tell he wasn't interested in hearing my way of thinking. His logic is he is used to that payment and if it never changes and he gets to drive a new truck every couple of years he is happy and the dealership is happy everyone is a winner. I don't know the payment details, but I am sure the dealership is just stretching out his payments over more years. It likely won't hit him how much he is paying until he stops buying a new one every couple of years and finds out he has to keep making those high payments for another 6-8 years without getting a new truck.
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One of the managers who works for me is on the road a lot a gets a lot of mileage reimbursement, plus a monthly car stipend. He was talking about buying a new truck, and was trying to work out the math so it would be paid by the reimbursement and stipend. I told him to ignore the stipend and the reimbursement, he gets that's no matter what, so it's not a factor in the decision (hoping he would take that to the logical conclusion and keep driving his current truck and bank the rest).
I could not get him to get off the notion that stipend + reimbursement >= new truck payment.
What can you do?
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Yet this person keeps parking on the street and getting tickets. #headdesk
They must have a reason that makes sense to them. Do you have any idea what it is?
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One of the managers who works for me is on the road a lot a gets a lot of mileage reimbursement, plus a monthly car stipend. He was talking about buying a new truck, and was trying to work out the math so it would be paid by the reimbursement and stipend. I told him to ignore the stipend and the reimbursement, he gets that's no matter what, so it's not a factor in the decision (hoping he would take that to the logical conclusion and keep driving his current truck and bank the rest).
Heh, I had that kind of deal at my last job, and one assignment was 50 miles from home. 100 miles per day, times $0.55/mile, on my (then-)12-year-old car was pretty sweet. The thing more than paid for itself.
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My company also pays quite big when traveling. I would make more money driving than my wage for the same hour. I would still not chose it, but dang, it hurts thinking about it.
One of the managers who works for me is on the road a lot a gets a lot of mileage reimbursement, plus a monthly car stipend. He was talking about buying a new truck, and was trying to work out the math so it would be paid by the reimbursement and stipend. I told him to ignore the stipend and the reimbursement, he gets that's no matter what, so it's not a factor in the decision (hoping he would take that to the logical conclusion and keep driving his current truck and bank the rest).
I could not get him to get off the notion that stipend + reimbursement >= new truck payment.
What can you do?
Did you make the "and this is the amount of money you would have left over every month in comparison. Would you prefer to have that and drive your old car or get a new one instead of all that money" argument? Compared to something else? Like "you could pay your son's sports club costs and still have money left".
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One of the managers who works for me is on the road a lot a gets a lot of mileage reimbursement, plus a monthly car stipend. He was talking about buying a new truck, and was trying to work out the math so it would be paid by the reimbursement and stipend. I told him to ignore the stipend and the reimbursement, he gets that's no matter what, so it's not a factor in the decision (hoping he would take that to the logical conclusion and keep driving his current truck and bank the rest).
Heh, I had that kind of deal at my last job, and one assignment was 50 miles from home. 100 miles per day, times $0.55/mile, on my (then-)12-year-old car was pretty sweet. The thing more than paid for itself.
The wife gets reimbursed for mileage to work. Seems like a decent bonus until you factor in the time/risk spent driving and remember it's totally not worth it.
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Yet this person keeps parking on the street and getting tickets. #headdesk
They must have a reason that makes sense to them. Do you have any idea what it is?
Maybe they sold the parking pass
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My company also pays quite big when traveling. I would make more money driving than my wage for the same hour. I would still not chose it, but dang, it hurts thinking about it.
One of the managers who works for me is on the road a lot a gets a lot of mileage reimbursement, plus a monthly car stipend. He was talking about buying a new truck, and was trying to work out the math so it would be paid by the reimbursement and stipend. I told him to ignore the stipend and the reimbursement, he gets that's no matter what, so it's not a factor in the decision (hoping he would take that to the logical conclusion and keep driving his current truck and bank the rest).
I could not get him to get off the notion that stipend + reimbursement >= new truck payment.
What can you do?
Did you make the "and this is the amount of money you would have left over every month in comparison. Would you prefer to have that and drive your old car or get a new one instead of all that money" argument? Compared to something else? Like "you could pay your son's sports club costs and still have money left".
The problem is, a lot of non-mustachians would truly prefer a fancy car over more money in their wallet...
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My company also pays quite big when traveling. I would make more money driving than my wage for the same hour. I would still not chose it, but dang, it hurts thinking about it.
One of the managers who works for me is on the road a lot a gets a lot of mileage reimbursement, plus a monthly car stipend. He was talking about buying a new truck, and was trying to work out the math so it would be paid by the reimbursement and stipend. I told him to ignore the stipend and the reimbursement, he gets that's no matter what, so it's not a factor in the decision (hoping he would take that to the logical conclusion and keep driving his current truck and bank the rest).
I could not get him to get off the notion that stipend + reimbursement >= new truck payment.
What can you do?
Did you make the "and this is the amount of money you would have left over every month in comparison. Would you prefer to have that and drive your old car or get a new one instead of all that money" argument? Compared to something else? Like "you could pay your son's sports club costs and still have money left".
The problem is, a lot of non-mustachians would truly prefer a fancy car over more money in their wallet...
Then how about "better car or being able to quit 10 years earlier"?
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My company also pays quite big when traveling. I would make more money driving than my wage for the same hour. I would still not chose it, but dang, it hurts thinking about it.
One of the managers who works for me is on the road a lot a gets a lot of mileage reimbursement, plus a monthly car stipend. He was talking about buying a new truck, and was trying to work out the math so it would be paid by the reimbursement and stipend. I told him to ignore the stipend and the reimbursement, he gets that's no matter what, so it's not a factor in the decision (hoping he would take that to the logical conclusion and keep driving his current truck and bank the rest).
I could not get him to get off the notion that stipend + reimbursement >= new truck payment.
What can you do?
Did you make the "and this is the amount of money you would have left over every month in comparison. Would you prefer to have that and drive your old car or get a new one instead of all that money" argument? Compared to something else? Like "you could pay your son's sports club costs and still have money left".
The problem is, a lot of non-mustachians would truly prefer a fancy car over more money in their wallet...
Then how about "better car or being able to quit 10 years earlier"?
Pay off now vs pay off in 10 years? How do you think that's going to go?
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I gave up when he couldn’t disconnect the income stream from the car purchase. I don’t know what he ended up doing, he works in another location from me.
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Yet this person keeps parking on the street and getting tickets. #headdesk
They must have a reason that makes sense to them. Do you have any idea what it is?
Their reasoning is because their always running late, so this way they get to work faster. Except that we don't have a hard 'in time', and get about 15 minutes of flexibility. It takes me exactly three minutes to walk from paid parking to the site. It takes more than three minutes to run out and reload the meter multiple times a day.
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When they died we found a box full of envelopes with small amounts of cash - used envelopes of course, labelled with "birthday" or "Christmas" or "hairdresser" in a very neat handwriting. They budgeted for everything and didn't spend more than they could afford.
Same with my grandparents; they had envelopes hidden all over the house. Having cash on hand rather than plastic was also a big part of that generation's financial planning.
I guarantee this was more effective than pretty much any modern method, including those used by mustachians. I worked in the credit card industry for a number of years. The consumer research shows that people spend significantly more when they use cards instead of cash. The research is pretty robust and applies across different consumer segments.
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When they died we found a box full of envelopes with small amounts of cash - used envelopes of course, labelled with "birthday" or "Christmas" or "hairdresser" in a very neat handwriting. They budgeted for everything and didn't spend more than they could afford.
Same with my grandparents; they had envelopes hidden all over the house. Having cash on hand rather than plastic was also a big part of that generation's financial planning.
I guarantee this was more effective than pretty much any modern method, including those used by mustachians. I worked in the credit card industry for a number of years. The consumer research shows that people spend significantly more when they use cards instead of cash. The research is pretty robust and applies across different consumer segments.
Which is a main factor for the push for cashless payments. It saves hassles for busineses and makes people lose more money.
Of course for you personally it's bad, but as long as the economy is more important than people...
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When they died we found a box full of envelopes with small amounts of cash - used envelopes of course, labelled with "birthday" or "Christmas" or "hairdresser" in a very neat handwriting. They budgeted for everything and didn't spend more than they could afford.
Same with my grandparents; they had envelopes hidden all over the house. Having cash on hand rather than plastic was also a big part of that generation's financial planning.
I guarantee this was more effective than pretty much any modern method, including those used by mustachians. I worked in the credit card industry for a number of years. The consumer research shows that people spend significantly more when they use cards instead of cash. The research is pretty robust and applies across different consumer segments.
I avoid most affiliate cards/programs for the same reason. The reason the Target Red Card gives you a 5% discount is not because they like you. Well maybe it is. They like you because if you have one of their Red Cards, you are literally letting them advertise inside your own wallet. If you have their card, you will shop there more often and spend more money, you poor Consumer Sukka.
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I know what the research says, but I just don't have that pain when spending cash that everyone always talks about. I suspect that it's because I had my first bank account/checkbook/debit card before I had my first job. Therefore, when I did start working the money in my account was mine that I'd worked for (and prior to that it was my allowance that had to be stretched out). If I had cash, it was because of xmas/birthday gifts. So cash has always felt like extra money to me. Plus cash just disappears at my house.
Today's work event is that my team lead just announced the impending birth of his first child. This from the man who has just recently stated that he wasn't having kids. I was kind of amused by the number of people talking about how he's never going to get to retire now. And based on what I know of him, they might be right (he's mentioned student loans, credit cards, and a mortgage). This is going to be quite the shock to him and his wife.
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Today's work event is that my team lead just announced the impending birth of his first child. This is going to be quite the shock to him and his wife.
Oh, so his wife still does not know that her husband is becoming a father? Interesting... ;)
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Today's work event is that my team lead just announced the impending birth of his first child. This is going to be quite the shock to him and his wife.
Oh, so his wife still does not know that her husband is becoming a father? Interesting... ;)
LOL
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Today's work event is that my team lead just announced the impending birth of his first child. This is going to be quite the shock to him and his wife.
Oh, so his wife still does not know that her husband is becoming a father? Interesting... ;)
Had a male co-worker who came to work dejected one day, having found out his wife was pregnant (again).
Dumbass said "I just refuse to wear condoms".
Our Indiana-born-n-bred openly Baptist boss said, "what did you expect if you didn't use birth control?"
Rest of us: 'dude, it's not rocket science" and "you need to control your pocket rocket" and "don't blow your load in the cockpit" (mil workplace).
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A co-worker on Friday was talking about how they went to the dealership checking out the new 2021 F150's since his 2018 F150 is about to hit 100,000KM. He was excited about a bunch of new options on the truck like the new bigger touch screen, and the built in power inverter so you can simply plug in a bunch of electronics etc.. He told the dealership to sign him up for one as long as they can keep the same payments. I can't understand how he doesn't see that those monthly payments add up to a lot of money and he is paying for the highest deprecation years of ownership over and over again. I tried to explain that to him, but could tell he wasn't interested in hearing my way of thinking. His logic is he is used to that payment and if it never changes and he gets to drive a new truck every couple of years he is happy and the dealership is happy everyone is a winner. I don't know the payment details, but I am sure the dealership is just stretching out his payments over more years. It likely won't hit him how much he is paying until he stops buying a new one every couple of years and finds out he has to keep making those high payments for another 6-8 years without getting a new truck.
A cheap inverter is $30. A good inverter a few hundred bucks. People!
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I find inverters in cars super convenient, but converting dc to ac only for the laptop brick to convert it back to dc... seems inefficient...
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I agree. Doesn't matter. Isn't costing anything directly like more gasoline.
However I'm not buying a 12V adapter for a gadget that is rarely used in the car or a passing interest.
We charge phones with 12V to USB adapters. We charge everything else via that old inverter when we camp or travel. That includes cordless drill batteries.
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I find inverters in cars super convenient, but converting dc to ac only for the laptop brick to convert it back to dc... seems inefficient...
The vehicle's DC supply may be dirty and not supply sufficient current, hence the need for an inverter.
More info: https://www.autoguide.com/top-10-best-power-inverters-for-your-car
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Today's work event is that my team lead just announced the impending birth of his first child. This is going to be quite the shock to him and his wife.
Oh, so his wife still does not know that her husband is becoming a father? Interesting... ;)
Had a male co-worker who came to work dejected one day, having found out his wife was pregnant (again).
Dumbass said "I just refuse to wear condoms".
Our Indiana-born-n-bred openly Baptist boss said, "what did you expect if you didn't use birth control?"
Rest of us: 'dude, it's not rocket science" and "you need to control your pocket rocket" and "don't blow your load in the cockpit" (mil workplace).
His wife is soooooo lucky to have him.
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I know what the research says, but I just don't have that pain when spending cash that everyone always talks about. I suspect that it's because I had my first bank account/checkbook/debit card before I had my first job. Therefore, when I did start working the money in my account was mine that I'd worked for (and prior to that it was my allowance that had to be stretched out). If I had cash, it was because of xmas/birthday gifts. So cash has always felt like extra money to me. Plus cash just disappears at my house.
Husband and I have the same experience. Credit card spending can be tracked very easily online, and any impulse to spend is checked by the knowledge that we’re going to have to account for it later when we 1) update Quicken and 2) pay our bills. Cash, on the other hand, tends to get frittered away, with little record of it. Yes, we could go all Gail Vaz-Oxlade and write every penny down. Realistically, I’ve known my husband for almost 2 decades and I know that isn’t going to happen.
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Today's work event is that my team lead just announced the impending birth of his first child. This is going to be quite the shock to him and his wife.
Oh, so his wife still does not know that her husband is becoming a father? Interesting... ;)
Had a male co-worker who came to work dejected one day, having found out his wife was pregnant (again).
Dumbass said "I just refuse to wear condoms".
Our Indiana-born-n-bred openly Baptist boss said, "what did you expect if you didn't use birth control?"
Rest of us: 'dude, it's not rocket science" and "you need to control your pocket rocket" and "don't blow your load in the cockpit" (mil workplace).
Wow. I hope his kids have better role models than him.
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I find inverters in cars super convenient, but converting dc to ac only for the laptop brick to convert it back to dc... seems inefficient...
I've owned one for decades. It was useful a few times when I needed to use the laptop for a road trip, but batteries have gotten a LOT better on electronic devices. Long gone are the days where I would run a CD player (with AUX-tape adapter) along with a laptop and GPS device all off my inverter.
Still glad I have it for the zombie apocalypse though.
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I find inverters in cars super convenient, but converting dc to ac only for the laptop brick to convert it back to dc... seems inefficient...
The vehicle's DC supply may be dirty and not supply sufficient current, hence the need for an inverter.
More info: https://www.autoguide.com/top-10-best-power-inverters-for-your-car
I haven't read the article yet but... if the DC supply can't supply sufficient current I have a hard time believing an inverter can fix that
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I know what the research says, but I just don't have that pain when spending cash that everyone always talks about. I suspect that it's because I had my first bank account/checkbook/debit card before I had my first job. Therefore, when I did start working the money in my account was mine that I'd worked for (and prior to that it was my allowance that had to be stretched out). If I had cash, it was because of xmas/birthday gifts. So cash has always felt like extra money to me. Plus cash just disappears at my house.
Today's work event is that my team lead just announced the impending birth of his first child. This from the man who has just recently stated that he wasn't having kids. I was kind of amused by the number of people talking about how he's never going to get to retire now. And based on what I know of him, they might be right (he's mentioned student loans, credit cards, and a mortgage). This is going to be quite the shock to him and his wife.
Thinking back this might be why I’m good with imaginary cash. My allowance as a little kids was kept track of on the family calculator. I think that way my mom knew where I was spending my money. If I wanted a Barbie, my mom would let me know if I had enough allowance to buy something. If I wanted cash to ride my bike to the local confidence store to buy candy, she gave it to me but subtracted it from the calendar. (Said store was not easy to get to so such rides were planned in advance.)
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I find inverters in cars super convenient, but converting dc to ac only for the laptop brick to convert it back to dc... seems inefficient...
The vehicle's DC supply may be dirty and not supply sufficient current, hence the need for an inverter.
More info: https://www.autoguide.com/top-10-best-power-inverters-for-your-car
I haven't read the article yet but... if the DC supply can't supply sufficient current I have a hard time believing an inverter can fix that
The cigarette lighter in many cars is limited to 15 AMPs. Use more and the fuse will blow. If you tie your inverter directly to the battery, you can get up to (in theory) the alternator's output and still not kill the battery. The alternator in my small SUV is 95 amps.
With my older inverter (500W I think) I've used a Sawzall and an electric drill in the field. Starting current for a big powertool is limited so I have to start no-load or start slowly and ramp up the speed. Its not ideal but once upon a time generators were expensive for me and cordless tools were lousy.
Back in the day when I was in the military I did alot of parking lot vehicle maintenance or upgrades. Was nice to run a 120V/75W work light rather than a flashlight. Good LED lights weren't a thing back then. Heck CFLs weren't really a thing yet.
Thankfully gadget efficiencies and batteries are much better than they once were.
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A co-worker on Friday was talking about how they went to the dealership checking out the new 2021 F150's since his 2018 F150 is about to hit 100,000KM. He was excited about a bunch of new options on the truck like the new bigger touch screen, and the built in power inverter so you can simply plug in a bunch of electronics etc.. He told the dealership to sign him up for one as long as they can keep the same payments. I can't understand how he doesn't see that those monthly payments add up to a lot of money and he is paying for the highest deprecation years of ownership over and over again. I tried to explain that to him, but could tell he wasn't interested in hearing my way of thinking. His logic is he is used to that payment and if it never changes and he gets to drive a new truck every couple of years he is happy and the dealership is happy everyone is a winner. I don't know the payment details, but I am sure the dealership is just stretching out his payments over more years. It likely won't hit him how much he is paying until he stops buying a new one every couple of years and finds out he has to keep making those high payments for another 6-8 years without getting a new truck.
The emotional benefits are often overlooked too: I no longer fret about every single new ding on my car that is ten years old. I am still salty about the damage done to the door after 1.5 months of owning it (dumb move by a careless parker... but couldn't *prove* it was them for fixing it)- but the damage in the last few years? Naw
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The cigarette lighter in many cars is limited to 15 AMPs. Use more and the fuse will blow. If you tie your inverter directly to the battery, you can get up to (in theory) the alternator's output and still not kill the battery. The alternator in my small SUV is 95 amps.
Ah that's the part I was missing
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The cigarette lighter in many cars is limited to 15 AMPs. Use more and the fuse will blow. If you tie your inverter directly to the battery, you can get up to (in theory) the alternator's output and still not kill the battery. The alternator in my small SUV is 95 amps.
Ah that's the part I was missing
Safety hint: Make sure you have a fuse in there somewhere...
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The cigarette lighter in many cars is limited to 15 AMPs. Use more and the fuse will blow. If you tie your inverter directly to the battery, you can get up to (in theory) the alternator's output and still not kill the battery. The alternator in my small SUV is 95 amps.
Ah that's the part I was missing
Safety hint: Make sure you have a fuse in there somewhere...
Not sure if I have a fuse. Can someone please verify?
(https://i.imgur.com/GyMCJOW.jpg)
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Actually with one of those I'm pretty sure your Delorean can power several neighborhoods all at once... A fuse would be quite wise. ;)
Nearest nuclear power plant to my town = ~3.5 Delorean time machine outputs.
I wonder what the duty cycle is on a Doc Brown time machine reactor?
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A coworker has a 1.5 hr (one way) commute to work. He normally drives a full size modified GMC truck, but sometimes he drives his Mini Cooper. Today he bought his wife a 2019 Camaro and had it delivered to work. He is going to drive it home today to surprise her. I have an idea of his salary, and it's less than six figures. No idea if his wife works. I'd hate to see his fuel and insurance costs.
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Heard this from one of my former co-workers who was expressing money woes, "but every time I see the shiny rims on my car, it makes me happy."
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Heard this from one of my former co-workers who was expressing money woes, "but every time I see the shiny rims on my car, it makes me happy."
That's good. Sell the car, keep the rims, hang them in your living room and be ultra happy.
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Actually with one of those I'm pretty sure your Delorean can power several neighborhoods all at once... A fuse would be quite wise. ;)
Nearest nuclear power plant to my town = ~3.5 Delorean time machine outputs.
I wonder what the duty cycle is on a Doc Brown time machine reactor?
This used to be a simple job to replace a flux capacitor when O'reilly had them in stock. Haven't seen them for a while. Must be a shortage of some key component during COVID :)
https://www.oreillyauto.com/flux-500.html
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Actually with one of those I'm pretty sure your Delorean can power several neighborhoods all at once... A fuse would be quite wise. ;)
Nearest nuclear power plant to my town = ~3.5 Delorean time machine outputs.
I wonder what the duty cycle is on a Doc Brown time machine reactor?
This used to be a simple job to replace a flux capacitor when O'reilly had them in stock. Haven't seen them for a while. Must be a shortage of some key component during COVID :)
https://www.oreillyauto.com/flux-500.html
That one seems overkill for my needs anyway. I only need 1.21 GW
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I'll bet the range on a Tesla EV would be better with a flux capacitor on board...
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That one seems overkill for my needs anyway. I only need 1.21 GW
All you need to do is weld 269 Long-Range Model 3's together and you'd have enough energy for a full minute of time travel.
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That one seems overkill for my needs anyway. I only need 1.21 GW
All you need to do is weld 269 Long-Range Model 3's together and you'd have enough energy for a full minute of time travel.
How unmustachian!
Use BYD cars, they only cost half of Teslas models.
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I know what the research says, but I just don't have that pain when spending cash that everyone always talks about. I suspect that it's because I had my first bank account/checkbook/debit card before I had my first job. Therefore, when I did start working the money in my account was mine that I'd worked for (and prior to that it was my allowance that had to be stretched out). If I had cash, it was because of xmas/birthday gifts. So cash has always felt like extra money to me. Plus cash just disappears at my house.
Husband and I have the same experience. Credit card spending can be tracked very easily online, and any impulse to spend is checked by the knowledge that we’re going to have to account for it later when we 1) update Quicken and 2) pay our bills. Cash, on the other hand, tends to get frittered away, with little record of it. Yes, we could go all Gail Vaz-Oxlade and write every penny down. Realistically, I’ve known my husband for almost 2 decades and I know that isn’t going to happen.
I have to Google how the cash looks, when I sometimes get it when I sell something to someone with a foreign background. The last time that happened was more than two years ago and I still have a small bill left. It is a pain in the ass to find somewhere to spend it. Many places don’t accept cash. While credit card and digital spending can be easily tracked and categorized.
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Seriously - businesses where you live don't accept cash?
I bought ~$10 worth of gasoline once. The clerk was not amused. I was relieved to be rid of all the coins.
This was years before I ever saw a coin machine in a grocery store.
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The cigarette lighter in many cars is limited to 15 AMPs. Use more and the fuse will blow. If you tie your inverter directly to the battery, you can get up to (in theory) the alternator's output and still not kill the battery. The alternator in my small SUV is 95 amps.
Ah that's the part I was missing
15 amps is a ton, most households circuits are 15 amps
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The cigarette lighter in many cars is limited to 15 AMPs. Use more and the fuse will blow. If you tie your inverter directly to the battery, you can get up to (in theory) the alternator's output and still not kill the battery. The alternator in my small SUV is 95 amps.
Ah that's the part I was missing
15 amps is a ton, most households circuits are 15 amps
Very different voltages though
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The cigarette lighter in many cars is limited to 15 AMPs. Use more and the fuse will blow. If you tie your inverter directly to the battery, you can get up to (in theory) the alternator's output and still not kill the battery. The alternator in my small SUV is 95 amps.
Ah that's the part I was missing
15 amps is a ton, most households circuits are 15 amps
Very different voltages though
Ah, true
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Seriously - businesses where you live don't accept cash?
I bought ~$10 worth of gasoline once. The clerk was not amused. I was relieved to be rid of all the coins.
This was years before I ever saw a coin machine in a grocery store.
Welcome to Sweden!
Yes, there are restaurants and shops that don’t accept cash. Most of the public transportation companies also refuse cash. Here you can’t buy a ticket on the buses and on trams you can only buy with a card from a machine. Or through an app. Imagine the hassle I had when I once forgot to charge the batteries on my phone to get a ticket, before I remembered that I could by a ticket with a card on the fram. The airport bus is cash free, which frustrates tourists. Many banks are also cash free. For parking you need a card in most of the places, I think, or in some places you pay by text message or through an app.
About 2-3 years ago they made a change of the coins and maybe bills also. That resulted in long lines at the food stores as people took their coins for shopping to get rid of them before they turned invalid. I used all my coins during a month or two, when I went to the grocery store close to me for minor purchases, but they had to put a limit on the amount of coins.
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Seriously - businesses where you live don't accept cash?
I bought ~$10 worth of gasoline once. The clerk was not amused. I was relieved to be rid of all the coins.
This was years before I ever saw a coin machine in a grocery store.
Welcome to Sweden!
Yes, there are restaurants and shops that don’t accept cash.
But to be fair, most shops and restaurants still take cash in Sweden, even if some have a problem with giving change for a big bill for a small purchase. Public transportation and parking is best done using smartphone apps and vending machine-type deals (including self checkout stores) mostly take card payments.
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We took our old Swedish cash with us on trip there last summer only to find that it had “expired”. That is so strange. In the US, you could spend cash or coin from 100 years ago and it would still be valid. Of course, it’s probably worth far more than its face value as a collector’s item, so spending it wouldn’t make much sense, but you could.
That said, we didn’t need cash anywhere in Sweden. Card was so much easier. We eventually got some cash in Finland for use at a street fair. We were able to use it up, but other than that street fair, we probably could have done the whole trip without cash.
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We took our old Swedish cash with us on trip there last summer only to find that it had “expired”. That is so strange. In the US, you could spend cash or coin from 100 years ago and it would still be valid. Of course, it’s probably worth far more than its face value as a collector’s item, so spending it wouldn’t make much sense, but you could.
That said, we didn’t need cash anywhere in Sweden. Card was so much easier. We eventually got some cash in Finland for use at a street fair. We were able to use it up, but other than that street fair, we probably could have done the whole trip without cash.
You can get back the value of the expired cash from the central bank minus a fee. If they accept your excuse for having old cash. The change is made to make it more difficult to forge money.
Actually, here you can basically pay with card or digitally through an app even at the street fairs. Finland is not quite as cashbased yet but I am basically never using cash in Finland. The sellers have realized that they have to have options as people don’t have cash. I read last week that the sellers of the magazine for homeless also accept digital payments through an app. They had to make the change because the main response from people were that they don’t have cash.
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I know what the research says, but I just don't have that pain when spending cash that everyone always talks about. I suspect that it's because I had my first bank account/checkbook/debit card before I had my first job. Therefore, when I did start working the money in my account was mine that I'd worked for (and prior to that it was my allowance that had to be stretched out). If I had cash, it was because of xmas/birthday gifts. So cash has always felt like extra money to me. Plus cash just disappears at my house.
Today's work event is that my team lead just announced the impending birth of his first child. This from the man who has just recently stated that he wasn't having kids. I was kind of amused by the number of people talking about how he's never going to get to retire now. And based on what I know of him, they might be right (he's mentioned student loans, credit cards, and a mortgage). This is going to be quite the shock to him and his wife.
Thinking back this might be why I’m good with imaginary cash. My allowance as a little kids was kept track of on the family calculator. I think that way my mom knew where I was spending my money. If I wanted a Barbie, my mom would let me know if I had enough allowance to buy something. If I wanted cash to ride my bike to the local confidence store to buy candy, she gave it to me but subtracted it from the calendar. (Said store was not easy to get to so such rides were planned in advance.)
Quite understandable that there weren't a lot of confidence stores around ;-)
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I know what the research says, but I just don't have that pain when spending cash that everyone always talks about. I suspect that it's because I had my first bank account/checkbook/debit card before I had my first job. Therefore, when I did start working the money in my account was mine that I'd worked for (and prior to that it was my allowance that had to be stretched out). If I had cash, it was because of xmas/birthday gifts. So cash has always felt like extra money to me. Plus cash just disappears at my house.
Today's work event is that my team lead just announced the impending birth of his first child. This from the man who has just recently stated that he wasn't having kids. I was kind of amused by the number of people talking about how he's never going to get to retire now. And based on what I know of him, they might be right (he's mentioned student loans, credit cards, and a mortgage). This is going to be quite the shock to him and his wife.
Thinking back this might be why I’m good with imaginary cash. My allowance as a little kids was kept track of on the family calculator. I think that way my mom knew where I was spending my money. If I wanted a Barbie, my mom would let me know if I had enough allowance to buy something. If I wanted cash to ride my bike to the local confidence store to buy candy, she gave it to me but subtracted it from the calendar. (Said store was not easy to get to so such rides were planned in advance.)
Quite understandable that there weren't a lot of confidence stores around ;-)
Yes, and back in my day, most of them only sold men's goods.
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We took our old Swedish cash with us on trip there last summer only to find that it had “expired”. That is so strange. In the US, you could spend cash or coin from 100 years ago and it would still be valid. Of course, it’s probably worth far more than its face value as a collector’s item, so spending it wouldn’t make much sense, but you could.
That said, we didn’t need cash anywhere in Sweden. Card was so much easier. We eventually got some cash in Finland for use at a street fair. We were able to use it up, but other than that street fair, we probably could have done the whole trip without cash.
You can get back the value of the expired cash from the central bank minus a fee. If they accept your excuse for having old cash. The change is made to make it more difficult to forge money.
Actually, here you can basically pay with card or digitally through an app even at the street fairs. Finland is not quite as cashbased yet but I am basically never using cash in Finland. The sellers have realized that they have to have options as people don’t have cash. I read last week that the sellers of the magazine for homeless also accept digital payments through an app. They had to make the change because the main response from people were that they don’t have cash.
With my luck I'd probably run out of data on my PAYGO phone and be stuck... ;)
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Heard this from one of my former co-workers who was expressing money woes, "but every time I see the shiny rims on my car, it makes me happy."
That's good. Sell the car, keep the rims, hang them in your living room and be ultra happy.
Nah, just tell them to move to this place so they can see their car. . .
https://www.mvrdv.nl/projects/223/sky-vault-penthouse
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As always city life is better when a person is rich... ;)
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Me: "Would you ever consider moving back home eventually or you think you will stay in the states?"
Coworker: "I'll probably stay in the states, but who knows what will happen 30 years from now when I retire"
Me: "......Yeah..... a lot can change in 30 years."
Meanwhile waiting 6 years feels like an eternity. How people even think about retiring in 30+ years is beyond me.
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PTF
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PTF
just right of the reply button is a button that has the same effect as your PTF ;)
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PTF
just right of the reply button is a button that has the same effect as your PTF ;)
It quite the same. The notify button you can turn off!
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Me: "Would you ever consider moving back home eventually or you think you will stay in the states?"
Coworker: "I'll probably stay in the states, but who knows what will happen 30 years from now when I retire"
Me: "......Yeah..... a lot can change in 30 years."
Meanwhile waiting 6 years feels like an eternity. How people even think about retiring in 30+ years is beyond me.
The first step is finding a job that doesn't suck and you actually enjoy, at least most of the time...
I've been wondering how many FIRE advocates are in jobs that just suck, for one reason or another. And the rest of them, they just don't find their work fulfilling? Maybe I should post a poll!
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Me: "Would you ever consider moving back home eventually or you think you will stay in the states?"
Coworker: "I'll probably stay in the states, but who knows what will happen 30 years from now when I retire"
Me: "......Yeah..... a lot can change in 30 years."
Meanwhile waiting 6 years feels like an eternity. How people even think about retiring in 30+ years is beyond me.
The first step is finding a job that doesn't suck and you actually enjoy, at least most of the time...
I've been wondering how many FIRE advocates are in jobs that just suck, for one reason or another. And the rest of them, they just don't find their work fulfilling? Maybe I should post a poll!
My job isn’t too bad, I’ve had dozens of jobs and this is definitely the best. Well, I was a snowboard camp counselor for a few years, that was pretty great, but I made something like $25/day for basically 24/7 watching kids. But current job is pretty easy, the pay is good, and my team is wonderful.
But - working seems like a total waste of time, it’s not creative or fulfilling. It’s just showing up doing what I need to do to meet deadlines and keep clients happy - and getting a paycheck in exchange. The money is too good to quit and most of the things I want to do don’t make much money, like teaching snowboarding for example.
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Me: "Would you ever consider moving back home eventually or you think you will stay in the states?"
Coworker: "I'll probably stay in the states, but who knows what will happen 30 years from now when I retire"
Me: "......Yeah..... a lot can change in 30 years."
Meanwhile waiting 6 years feels like an eternity. How people even think about retiring in 30+ years is beyond me.
The first step is finding a job that doesn't suck and you actually enjoy, at least most of the time...
I've been wondering how many FIRE advocates are in jobs that just suck, for one reason or another. And the rest of them, they just don't find their work fulfilling? Maybe I should post a poll!
That sounds like a fascinating discussion topic. It'd be interesting to see where people fall on the "how much I enjoy my job vs. how enthusiastic I am about FIRE" graph.
I, for one, really enjoy my job. It's stimulating, challenging, fulfilling, and has plenty of variety. I work with great people, and the atmosphere is great. But I still really really want to FIRE.
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I also enjoy what I do. There are definite annoyances, and things I don't like, but overall I'm fairly happy to do what I do in exchange for money. And yes I'm saving and investing (and generally being cheap), but not to the extreme.
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I hated my job until the pandemic allowed me to start working from home about 2/5 days per week. It's much more tolerable now, especially with 4 years of living expenses stocked up and the knowledge that my boss's boss is pleased with me (despite how I'm unexceptional). The main reason for staying is that the engineering job market recoils from my resume like it's a crucifix; only my current employer was dumb enough to actually hire me.
Passion for FIRE has stabilized around a 62% savings rate or so, not counting what goes into mortgage principal or student loan payments.
To be on-topic, one of my coworkers has referred to retirement as the worst thing that has ever been invented (paraphrased; this comment was months ago). She believes that it's why people decline in old age. But she's about 80 years old and still sharp, so I have no reason to argue.
I have also overheard tales of commute times to my workplace. 40+ minutes is common. To my knowledge, I am the only one who lives in the same city as the office.
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To be on-topic, one of my coworkers has referred to retirement as the worst thing that has ever been invented (paraphrased; this comment was months ago). She believes that it's why people decline in old age. But she's about 80 years old and still sharp, so I have no reason to argue.
That's certainly true-ish. But only if you let yourself decline.
Up until retirement people are forced by work to do something (and relax on the weekend). That is so ingrained in most of them that by the time they actually retire, they can't get around their heads that it's not eternal weekend and they can and have to do something.
Of course if they aren't broken in body by work too by that time.
Okinawa is said to be the "island of the 100 year olds". Mostly it's said because of their food. That certainly has it's part, but those 100 year olds are ALL doing something. Many have still been working in the fields in their 80s or doing it even until they die.
Remember that most FIRE people are not saying they want to endlessly relax. Most say they want to be self-determined and that is what ahem... FIREs them up to be early "retirements".
Having to put food on your plate is a great motivator but it seldom allows people to be themselves. (There is a famous story about one writer who rented a typewriter on an hourly base so he had to make sure to use the time as best as he could and wrote whole novels down in the first draft. While the result is astounding, I am quite sure most people are not on that level of skill - or desparation.)
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That's certainly true-ish. But only if you let yourself decline.
Up until retirement people are forced by work to do something (and relax on the weekend). That is so ingrained in most of them that by the time they actually retire, they can't get around their heads that it's not eternal weekend and they can and have to do something.
Remember that most FIRE people are not saying they want to endlessly relax. Most say they want to be self-determined and that is what ahem... FIREs them up to be early "retirements".
Having to put food on your plate is a great motivator but it seldom allows people to be themselves. (There is a famous story about one writer who rented a typewriter on an hourly base so he had to make sure to use the time as best as he could and wrote whole novels down in the first draft. While the result is astounding, I am quite sure most people are not on that level of skill - or desparation.)
Even within the FIRE community, there aren't enough people that get this. I regularly get into disagreements on Facebook within FIRE groups about what constitutes "retired". Just the other week I had to correct people within the Mustachians in Practice group who were saying that MMM "isn't actually retired", because he still runs a blog and does construction work. I of course linked the Internet Retirement Police article from the blog, and asserted that you can absolutely be retired while doing something you love that happens to make you money. I got a response that "by that definition a lot of people would be retired." I could almost hear the loud smack as the person ran face first into the point, and still missed it.
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Listened to a watercooler discussion about guns and ammo. Hard to get ammo these days b/c demand is so high. $1+ per bullet depending.
And guns... Well, first you buy the gun, then you send it away to have custom machining and a paint job done to it, and then you replace about half the parts with custom catalog parts b/c all these things make the gun better - somehow. Its also how you start with a $500 gun and end up with something that costs multiples of that.
I'm making fun of the gun hobby but this really can apply to any hobby. I've watched people do the same with everything - bikes, motorcycles, fishing gear, 4WD vehicles, etc. I've "upgraded" a couple of my things too. Usually only functional upgrades or preservation upgrades (make something old usable and reliable again).
Funny how we can get stuck in those kinds of upgrade traps.
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Listened to a watercooler discussion about guns and ammo. Hard to get ammo these days b/c demand is so high. $1+ per bullet depending.
And guns... Well, first you buy the gun, then you send it away to have custom machining and a paint job done to it, and then you replace about half the parts with custom catalog parts b/c all these things make the gun better - somehow. Its also how you start with a $500 gun and end up with something that costs multiples of that.
Haven't you heard? AR-15's are like Barbie for Men.
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Listened to a watercooler discussion about guns and ammo. Hard to get ammo these days b/c demand is so high. $1+ per bullet depending.
And guns... Well, first you buy the gun, then you send it away to have custom machining and a paint job done to it, and then you replace about half the parts with custom catalog parts b/c all these things make the gun better - somehow. Its also how you start with a $500 gun and end up with something that costs multiples of that.
Haven't you heard? AR-15's are like Barbie for Men.
Haha, next time I hear about some new scope or part that is needed for a rifle, I am going to ask if Barbie needs a new dress.
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Barbies for men. I like it!
I like to feel that MMM was inoculated us against needless subscriptions and upgrade cycles.
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Barbies for men. I like it!
I like to feel that MMM was inoculated us against needless subscriptions and upgrade cycles.
I was browsing around on ebay for a newer iPad, as my current iPad 2 has an iffy home button and a cracked screen. I just couldn't justify it. Dang MMM'ers in my head wouldn't let me.
Listened to a watercooler discussion .....
I'm making fun of the gun hobby but this really can apply to any hobby. I've watched people do the same with everything - bikes, motorcycles, fishing gear, 4WD vehicles, etc. I've "upgraded" a couple of my things too. Usually only functional upgrades or preservation upgrades (make something old usable and reliable again).
Funny how we can get stuck in those kinds of upgrade traps.
Any level of hobby can look ridiculous to those looking on from the outside, especially spouses.
When I was motorcycle racing, people would take a brand new $6000 motorcycle and put 3 grand or more into "upgrades" that were NOT required by the safety rules*.
I was tempted, but I knew the problem was not the bike, it was me.
I had evidence. I was endurance racing, and had a partner who got on my bike and proceeded to go 15% faster than I did. Same bike same tires same gas same day same weather etc etc.
This means that in a 10 lap race he would have lapped me at least once.
* When I had a racebike stolen, I bought a used racebike and counted up all the extras that were on it and came up with at least 3 grand.
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Barbies for men. I like it!
I like to feel that MMM was inoculated us against needless subscriptions and upgrade cycles.
I was browsing around on ebay for a newer iPad, as my current iPad 2 has an iffy home button and a cracked screen. I just couldn't justify it. Dang MMM'ers in my head wouldn't let me.
Listened to a watercooler discussion .....
I'm making fun of the gun hobby but this really can apply to any hobby. I've watched people do the same with everything - bikes, motorcycles, fishing gear, 4WD vehicles, etc. I've "upgraded" a couple of my things too. Usually only functional upgrades or preservation upgrades (make something old usable and reliable again).
Funny how we can get stuck in those kinds of upgrade traps.
Any level of hobby can look ridiculous to those looking on from the outside, especially spouses.
When I was motorcycle racing, people would take a brand new $6000 motorcycle and put 3 grand or more into "upgrades" that were NOT required by the safety rules*.
I was tempted, but I knew the problem was not the bike, it was me.
I had evidence. I was endurance racing, and had a partner who got on my bike and proceeded to go 15% faster than I did. Same bike same tires same gas same day same weather etc etc.
This means that in a 10 lap race he would have lapped me at least once.
* When I had a racebike stolen, I bought a used racebike and counted up all the extras that were on it and came up with at least 3 grand.
About the iPad, if your old ipad is not functioning ok I think it is totally ok to upgrade. I have a 6 years old Ipad that works ok but little slowly. Today, I got a notice that I could not install the latest version of an app due to the system version. I am going to postpone the upgrade a while longer because t is othervise ok.
I saw the same thing when I was doing triathlons. Mostly guys buying light weight bikes and equipment, while the most cost effective thing would have been losing 10 kilos. One of my best moments in a race was when I passed a guy with a tribike and a special aerodynamic helmet with my 2000 dollar roadbike. And let me tell you I am not a fast biker.
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Me: "Would you ever consider moving back home eventually or you think you will stay in the states?"
Coworker: "I'll probably stay in the states, but who knows what will happen 30 years from now when I retire"
Me: "......Yeah..... a lot can change in 30 years."
Meanwhile waiting 6 years feels like an eternity. How people even think about retiring in 30+ years is beyond me.
The first step is finding a job that doesn't suck and you actually enjoy, at least most of the time...
I've been wondering how many FIRE advocates are in jobs that just suck, for one reason or another. And the rest of them, they just don't find their work fulfilling? Maybe I should post a poll!
That sounds like a fascinating discussion topic. It'd be interesting to see where people fall on the "how much I enjoy my job vs. how enthusiastic I am about FIRE" graph.
I, for one, really enjoy my job. It's stimulating, challenging, fulfilling, and has plenty of variety. I work with great people, and the atmosphere is great. But I still really really want to FIRE.
I think I am just built to find that every job sucks after approx 2 years. I don't think it is the actual job, it's me.
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Listened to a watercooler discussion about guns and ammo. Hard to get ammo these days b/c demand is so high. $1+ per bullet depending.
And guns... Well, first you buy the gun, then you send it away to have custom machining and a paint job done to it, and then you replace about half the parts with custom catalog parts b/c all these things make the gun better - somehow. Its also how you start with a $500 gun and end up with something that costs multiples of that.
Haven't you heard? AR-15's are like Barbie for Men.
Well us women gun owners just accessorize our AR-15s AND get a new dress! Sometimes they even match ;-).
Here you are (attachment) @spartana ...... and Learn to Paint your rifle / AR15 from Chinese [Bob Ross] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDgD4d-552o
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One of the owners of a Hobby Store (The Hobbit) in town used to make uniforms for Barbie dolls and equip them with G.I. Joe guns, knives, etc. She also gave them a scar, just like G.I. Joe.
My favorite was Spetznaz Barbie, which we gave as a Christmas present to our daughter in law to go with her collection.
Apparently some lawyer sent them a cease and desist letter. :(
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Listened to a watercooler discussion about guns and ammo. Hard to get ammo these days b/c demand is so high. $1+ per bullet depending.
And guns... Well, first you buy the gun, then you send it away to have custom machining and a paint job done to it, and then you replace about half the parts with custom catalog parts b/c all these things make the gun better - somehow. Its also how you start with a $500 gun and end up with something that costs multiples of that.
Haven't you heard? AR-15's are like Barbie for Men.
Well us women gun owners just accessorize our AR-15s AND get a new dress! Sometimes they even match ;-).
Here you are (attachment) @spartana ...... and Learn to Paint your rifle / AR15 from Chinese [Bob Ross] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDgD4d-552o
LOL I actually have a pink hoodie with the Hello Kitty with an assault rifle on it. I don't really wear it (well not too often) but it was a gift. Of course you can buy your Barbie her very own AR-15 too. I wonder if it comes in pink ;-).
Whatever the Barbie in that picture is holding, it is most definitely not an AR-15, haha
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Whatever the Barbie in that picture is holding, it is most definitely not an AR-15, haha
Some kind of Bullpup, guessing a Tavor or Desert Tech.
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Whatever the Barbie in that picture is holding, it is most definitely not an AR-15, haha
Some kind of Bullpup, guessing a Tavor or Desert Tech.
I have no idea--it appears to have a magazine both in the stock and in front of the trigger, so I'm very confused.
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Listened to a watercooler discussion about guns and ammo. Hard to get ammo these days b/c demand is so high. $1+ per bullet depending.
And guns... Well, first you buy the gun, then you send it away to have custom machining and a paint job done to it, and then you replace about half the parts with custom catalog parts b/c all these things make the gun better - somehow. Its also how you start with a $500 gun and end up with something that costs multiples of that.
Haven't you heard? AR-15's are like Barbie for Men.
Well us women gun owners just accessorize our AR-15s AND get a new dress! Sometimes they even match ;-).
Here you are (attachment) @spartana ...... and Learn to Paint your rifle / AR15 from Chinese [Bob Ross] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDgD4d-552o
I wonder what we should by our five year old. Oh, maybe her own assault rifle!
But if that is for Chinese customers they might be 20 or 30 years old. I think it is interesting that Hello Kitty is so popular among adults in China.
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Listened to a watercooler discussion about guns and ammo. Hard to get ammo these days b/c demand is so high. $1+ per bullet depending.
And guns... Well, first you buy the gun, then you send it away to have custom machining and a paint job done to it, and then you replace about half the parts with custom catalog parts b/c all these things make the gun better - somehow. Its also how you start with a $500 gun and end up with something that costs multiples of that.
Haven't you heard? AR-15's are like Barbie for Men.
Well us women gun owners just accessorize our AR-15s AND get a new dress! Sometimes they even match ;-).
Here you are (attachment) @spartana ...... and Learn to Paint your rifle / AR15 from Chinese [Bob Ross] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDgD4d-552o
I wonder what we should by our five year old. Oh, maybe her own assault rifle!
Just in case you're not familiar with it, the "AR" doesn't stand for "Assault Rifle." It stands for "ArmaLite Rifle"--Armalite is the company that originally developed it. Generally speaking, the term "assault rifle" only includes weapons capable of automatic fire or burst fire, and the AR-15 doesn't fall into that category.
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Listened to a watercooler discussion about guns and ammo. Hard to get ammo these days b/c demand is so high. $1+ per bullet depending.
And guns... Well, first you buy the gun, then you send it away to have custom machining and a paint job done to it, and then you replace about half the parts with custom catalog parts b/c all these things make the gun better - somehow. Its also how you start with a $500 gun and end up with something that costs multiples of that.
Haven't you heard? AR-15's are like Barbie for Men.
Well us women gun owners just accessorize our AR-15s AND get a new dress! Sometimes they even match ;-).
Here you are (attachment) @spartana ...... and Learn to Paint your rifle / AR15 from Chinese [Bob Ross] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDgD4d-552o
I wonder what we should by our five year old. Oh, maybe her own assault rifle!
Just in case you're not familiar with it, the "AR" doesn't stand for "Assault Rifle." It stands for "ArmaLite Rifle"--Armalite is the company that originally developed it. Generally speaking, the term "assault rifle" only includes weapons capable of automatic fire or burst fire, and the AR-15 doesn't fall into that category.
Up here we call that an assault-style rifle because of the large magazine and short barrel length. The government plays whack-a-mole trying to ban these things. The manufacturers make minor changes to get around the regulations, then the government changes the regulations.
Of course, there's no valid civilian use for an AR15 in Canada anyway. I know that's not the case in the US... :-P
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Listened to a watercooler discussion about guns and ammo. Hard to get ammo these days b/c demand is so high. $1+ per bullet depending.
And guns... Well, first you buy the gun, then you send it away to have custom machining and a paint job done to it, and then you replace about half the parts with custom catalog parts b/c all these things make the gun better - somehow. Its also how you start with a $500 gun and end up with something that costs multiples of that.
I'm making fun of the gun hobby but this really can apply to any hobby. I've watched people do the same with everything - bikes, motorcycles, fishing gear, 4WD vehicles, etc. I've "upgraded" a couple of my things too. Usually only functional upgrades or preservation upgrades (make something old usable and reliable again).
Funny how we can get stuck in those kinds of upgrade traps.
I’m in law enforcement, we have lots of gun nuts. I will never be one because I’m not willing to pay $500 plus for one.
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Listened to a watercooler discussion about guns and ammo. Hard to get ammo these days b/c demand is so high. $1+ per bullet depending.
And guns... Well, first you buy the gun, then you send it away to have custom machining and a paint job done to it, and then you replace about half the parts with custom catalog parts b/c all these things make the gun better - somehow. Its also how you start with a $500 gun and end up with something that costs multiples of that.
I'm making fun of the gun hobby but this really can apply to any hobby. I've watched people do the same with everything - bikes, motorcycles, fishing gear, 4WD vehicles, etc. I've "upgraded" a couple of my things too. Usually only functional upgrades or preservation upgrades (make something old usable and reliable again).
Funny how we can get stuck in those kinds of upgrade traps.
I’m in law enforcement, we have lots of gun nuts. I will never be one because I’m not willing to pay $500 plus for one.
DH had a colleague once who was really, really into guns and spending on guns. But he was like that with everything. Only the most expensive dim sum in town was even worth considering (even the other Chinese people thought he was nuts), new parents shouldn't even consider anything except the top of the line stroller, couldn't understand why anyone would buy a house anywhere except the very best school district....
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Listened to a watercooler discussion about guns and ammo. Hard to get ammo these days b/c demand is so high. $1+ per bullet depending.
And guns... Well, first you buy the gun, then you send it away to have custom machining and a paint job done to it, and then you replace about half the parts with custom catalog parts b/c all these things make the gun better - somehow. Its also how you start with a $500 gun and end up with something that costs multiples of that.
Haven't you heard? AR-15's are like Barbie for Men.
Well us women gun owners just accessorize our AR-15s AND get a new dress! Sometimes they even match ;-).
Here you are (attachment) @spartana ...... and Learn to Paint your rifle / AR15 from Chinese [Bob Ross] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDgD4d-552o
LOL I actually have a pink hoodie with the Hello Kitty with an assault rifle on it. I don't really wear it (well not too often) but it was a gift. Of course you can buy your Barbie her very own AR-15 too. I wonder if it comes in pink ;-).
That picture is nightmare fuel. Barbie, perfect hair, demonic smile and the EYES.... :-) You just KNOW some mayhem is going down
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Me: "Would you ever consider moving back home eventually or you think you will stay in the states?"
Coworker: "I'll probably stay in the states, but who knows what will happen 30 years from now when I retire"
Me: "......Yeah..... a lot can change in 30 years."
Meanwhile waiting 6 years feels like an eternity. How people even think about retiring in 30+ years is beyond me.
The first step is finding a job that doesn't suck and you actually enjoy, at least most of the time...
I've been wondering how many FIRE advocates are in jobs that just suck, for one reason or another. And the rest of them, they just don't find their work fulfilling? Maybe I should post a poll!
That sounds like a fascinating discussion topic. It'd be interesting to see where people fall on the "how much I enjoy my job vs. how enthusiastic I am about FIRE" graph.
I, for one, really enjoy my job. It's stimulating, challenging, fulfilling, and has plenty of variety. I work with great people, and the atmosphere is great. But I still really really want to FIRE.
I think I am just built to find that every job sucks after approx 2 years. I don't think it is the actual job, it's me.
I was the same way. It's nice to know I'm not alone.
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Listened to a watercooler discussion about guns and ammo. Hard to get ammo these days b/c demand is so high. $1+ per bullet depending.
And guns... Well, first you buy the gun, then you send it away to have custom machining and a paint job done to it, and then you replace about half the parts with custom catalog parts b/c all these things make the gun better - somehow. Its also how you start with a $500 gun and end up with something that costs multiples of that.
Haven't you heard? AR-15's are like Barbie for Men.
Well us women gun owners just accessorize our AR-15s AND get a new dress! Sometimes they even match ;-).
Here you are (attachment) @spartana ...... and Learn to Paint your rifle / AR15 from Chinese [Bob Ross] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDgD4d-552o
I wonder what we should by our five year old. Oh, maybe her own assault rifle!
But if that is for Chinese customers they might be 20 or 30 years old. I think it is interesting that Hello Kitty is so popular among adults in China.
Afaik all of Asia is totally into cute. And that is something many western companies have failed to understand (including that adults buy cute stuff).
Famously Barbie had to close down their super hyper Beijing flagship store because they just could manage to sell the "sexy" styled strangely looking Barbie.
Meanwhile Asia goes Saikawa when it comes to cute:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt9BZy4FD1c
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Just in case you're not familiar with it, the "AR" doesn't stand for "Assault Rifle." It stands for "ArmaLite Rifle"--Armalite is the company that originally developed it. Generally speaking, the term "assault rifle" only includes weapons capable of automatic fire or burst fire, and the AR-15 doesn't fall into that category.
Up here we call that an assault-style rifle because of the large magazine and short barrel length. The government plays whack-a-mole trying to ban these things. The manufacturers make minor changes to get around the regulations, then the government changes the regulations.
Of course, there's no valid civilian use for an AR15 in Canada anyway. I know that's not the case in the US... :-P
"Assault-style" is an interesting term. It at least shows acknowledgement that there's a difference, although I take issue with regulating guns based on appearance/style. Where does short barrel length come into play? In the states, "short barrel" is <16 inches. Is it different up north?
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Just in case you're not familiar with it, the "AR" doesn't stand for "Assault Rifle." It stands for "ArmaLite Rifle"--Armalite is the company that originally developed it. Generally speaking, the term "assault rifle" only includes weapons capable of automatic fire or burst fire, and the AR-15 doesn't fall into that category.
Up here we call that an assault-style rifle because of the large magazine and short barrel length. The government plays whack-a-mole trying to ban these things. The manufacturers make minor changes to get around the regulations, then the government changes the regulations.
Of course, there's no valid civilian use for an AR15 in Canada anyway. I know that's not the case in the US... :-P
"Assault-style" is an interesting term. It at least shows acknowledgement that there's a difference, although I take issue with regulating guns based on appearance/style. Where does short barrel length come into play? In the states, "short barrel" is <16 inches. Is it different up north?
That seems to be all our gov't does - regulate based on looks. This Spring our federal gov't rammed through an 'order in council' (which bypasses parliamentary debate) to prohibit ownership of hundreds of firearms (black gun = scary = banned) as a knee jerk reaction to a situation that had nothing to do with the firearms they banned.
The Gov't and media continue to use the term assault rifle and assault-style rifle interchangeably to convince the general public believe that assault rifles are in the hands of civilians - never mind that assault rifles have been banned in Canada since the 70s).
Large capacity magazines for semi-auto center fire rifles are pinned to 5 rounds max to be legal. Barrel and total length are regulated b/c, in theory, they cannot be concealed. I suspect that all the criminals are following the licensing and possession regulations ...
I'm going to go back to reading about $$ now :)
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Just in case you're not familiar with it, the "AR" doesn't stand for "Assault Rifle." It stands for "ArmaLite Rifle"--Armalite is the company that originally developed it. Generally speaking, the term "assault rifle" only includes weapons capable of automatic fire or burst fire, and the AR-15 doesn't fall into that category.
Up here we call that an assault-style rifle because of the large magazine and short barrel length. The government plays whack-a-mole trying to ban these things. The manufacturers make minor changes to get around the regulations, then the government changes the regulations.
Of course, there's no valid civilian use for an AR15 in Canada anyway. I know that's not the case in the US... :-P
"Assault-style" is an interesting term. It at least shows acknowledgement that there's a difference, although I take issue with regulating guns based on appearance/style. Where does short barrel length come into play? In the states, "short barrel" is <16 inches. Is it different up north?
I would join the assault rifle style crowd mentioned above. It is not allowed for private ownership here either. I grew up in a household with rifles for hunting and competition and are comfortable with using guns. Handgun ownership is strictly regulated so either you belong to a shooting club and compete or you are a criminal. You would never see people carrying guns in the street like you see pictures from US.
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Just in case you're not familiar with it, the "AR" doesn't stand for "Assault Rifle." It stands for "ArmaLite Rifle"--Armalite is the company that originally developed it. Generally speaking, the term "assault rifle" only includes weapons capable of automatic fire or burst fire, and the AR-15 doesn't fall into that category.
Up here we call that an assault-style rifle because of the large magazine and short barrel length. The government plays whack-a-mole trying to ban these things. The manufacturers make minor changes to get around the regulations, then the government changes the regulations.
Of course, there's no valid civilian use for an AR15 in Canada anyway. I know that's not the case in the US... :-P
"Assault-style" is an interesting term. It at least shows acknowledgement that there's a difference, although I take issue with regulating guns based on appearance/style. Where does short barrel length come into play? In the states, "short barrel" is <16 inches. Is it different up north?
I would join the assault rifle style crowd mentioned above. It is not allowed for private ownership here either. I grew up in a household with rifles for hunting and competition and are comfortable with using guns. Handgun ownership is strictly regulated so either you belong to a shooting club and compete or you are a criminal. You would never see people carrying guns in the street like you see pictures from US.
FWIW, open carry is pretty uncommon, hence why it garners attention. In the 6 years I lived in the Houston Texas area, I only once saw someone other than police openly carrying a firearm. Now, there are hundreds of thousands of civilians across the country who (legally) carry concealed on a daily basis, but you never see pictures of them, and very rarely hear news stories about them. :) Very occasionally you have instances where you'll see lots of people carrying openly, e.g. Coeur d'Alene Idaho earlier this year when they heard rumors of less-peaceful protesters coming to town (http://Coeur d'Alene Idaho earlier this year when they heard rumors of less-peaceful protesters coming to town), but that's exceedingly rare.
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Just in case you're not familiar with it, the "AR" doesn't stand for "Assault Rifle." It stands for "ArmaLite Rifle"--Armalite is the company that originally developed it. Generally speaking, the term "assault rifle" only includes weapons capable of automatic fire or burst fire, and the AR-15 doesn't fall into that category.
Up here we call that an assault-style rifle because of the large magazine and short barrel length. The government plays whack-a-mole trying to ban these things. The manufacturers make minor changes to get around the regulations, then the government changes the regulations.
Of course, there's no valid civilian use for an AR15 in Canada anyway. I know that's not the case in the US... :-P
"Assault-style" is an interesting term. It at least shows acknowledgement that there's a difference, although I take issue with regulating guns based on appearance/style. Where does short barrel length come into play? In the states, "short barrel" is <16 inches. Is it different up north?
I would join the assault rifle style crowd mentioned above. It is not allowed for private ownership here either. I grew up in a household with rifles for hunting and competition and are comfortable with using guns. Handgun ownership is strictly regulated so either you belong to a shooting club and compete or you are a criminal. You would never see people carrying guns in the street like you see pictures from US.
FWIW, open carry is pretty uncommon, hence why it garners attention. In the 6 years I lived in the Houston Texas area, I only once saw someone other than police openly carrying a firearm. Now, there are hundreds of thousands of civilians across the country who (legally) carry concealed on a daily basis, but you never see pictures of them, and very rarely hear news stories about them. :) Very occasionally you have instances where you'll see lots of people carrying openly, e.g. Coeur d'Alene Idaho earlier this year when they heard rumors of less-peaceful protesters coming to town (http://Coeur d'Alene Idaho earlier this year when they heard rumors of less-peaceful protesters coming to town), but that's exceedingly rare.
I saw someone open carrying while trick or treating with his kid this year. Of course, I live in the deep, deep south.
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Our company has banned us from traveling anywhere this Christmas holiday. We are required to stay in the city to avoid having to undergo a two week quarantine upon our return (thereby delaying our return to work since our holiday is only two weeks long). We are not allowed to extend our holiday by using personal leave, since many of the expats left the country, got stuck outside, and was kind of on leave for the first nine months of this year.
So now, people are desperate to spend their money in the city. These are the opportunities we’ve been invited to in the past couple weeks.
$60 sessions at an indoor playground.
$60 to go for a walk in a park.
$1000 to stay for a couple days at a hotel about a 20 minute bike ride from our expat neighborhood.
$2000 for a few days at a nearby island hotel
$5000 for a one week winter art trip
$500 for a one week (half day) art camp
$800 for a three day science camp
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Just in case you're not familiar with it, the "AR" doesn't stand for "Assault Rifle." It stands for "ArmaLite Rifle"--Armalite is the company that originally developed it. Generally speaking, the term "assault rifle" only includes weapons capable of automatic fire or burst fire, and the AR-15 doesn't fall into that category.
Up here we call that an assault-style rifle because of the large magazine and short barrel length. The government plays whack-a-mole trying to ban these things. The manufacturers make minor changes to get around the regulations, then the government changes the regulations.
Of course, there's no valid civilian use for an AR15 in Canada anyway. I know that's not the case in the US... :-P
"Assault-style" is an interesting term. It at least shows acknowledgement that there's a difference, although I take issue with regulating guns based on appearance/style. Where does short barrel length come into play? In the states, "short barrel" is <16 inches. Is it different up north?
I would join the assault rifle style crowd mentioned above. It is not allowed for private ownership here either. I grew up in a household with rifles for hunting and competition and are comfortable with using guns. Handgun ownership is strictly regulated so either you belong to a shooting club and compete or you are a criminal. You would never see people carrying guns in the street like you see pictures from US.
FWIW, open carry is pretty uncommon, hence why it garners attention. In the 6 years I lived in the Houston Texas area, I only once saw someone other than police openly carrying a firearm. Now, there are hundreds of thousands of civilians across the country who (legally) carry concealed on a daily basis, but you never see pictures of them, and very rarely hear news stories about them. :) Very occasionally you have instances where you'll see lots of people carrying openly, e.g. Coeur d'Alene Idaho earlier this year when they heard rumors of less-peaceful protesters coming to town (http://Coeur d'Alene Idaho earlier this year when they heard rumors of less-peaceful protesters coming to town), but that's exceedingly rare.
I saw someone open carrying while trick or treating with his kid this year. Of course, I live in the deep, deep south.
In case they are attacked by Halloween ghouls and goblins?
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Just in case you're not familiar with it, the "AR" doesn't stand for "Assault Rifle." It stands for "ArmaLite Rifle"--Armalite is the company that originally developed it. Generally speaking, the term "assault rifle" only includes weapons capable of automatic fire or burst fire, and the AR-15 doesn't fall into that category.
Up here we call that an assault-style rifle because of the large magazine and short barrel length. The government plays whack-a-mole trying to ban these things. The manufacturers make minor changes to get around the regulations, then the government changes the regulations.
Of course, there's no valid civilian use for an AR15 in Canada anyway. I know that's not the case in the US... :-P
"Assault-style" is an interesting term. It at least shows acknowledgement that there's a difference, although I take issue with regulating guns based on appearance/style. Where does short barrel length come into play? In the states, "short barrel" is <16 inches. Is it different up north?
I would join the assault rifle style crowd mentioned above. It is not allowed for private ownership here either. I grew up in a household with rifles for hunting and competition and are comfortable with using guns. Handgun ownership is strictly regulated so either you belong to a shooting club and compete or you are a criminal. You would never see people carrying guns in the street like you see pictures from US.
FWIW, open carry is pretty uncommon, hence why it garners attention. In the 6 years I lived in the Houston Texas area, I only once saw someone other than police openly carrying a firearm. Now, there are hundreds of thousands of civilians across the country who (legally) carry concealed on a daily basis, but you never see pictures of them, and very rarely hear news stories about them. :) Very occasionally you have instances where you'll see lots of people carrying openly, e.g. Coeur d'Alene Idaho earlier this year when they heard rumors of less-peaceful protesters coming to town (http://Coeur d'Alene Idaho earlier this year when they heard rumors of less-peaceful protesters coming to town), but that's exceedingly rare.
I saw someone open carrying while trick or treating with his kid this year. Of course, I live in the deep, deep south.
In case they are attacked by Halloween ghouls and goblins?
And silver bullets for vampires and werewolves?
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Just in case you're not familiar with it, the "AR" doesn't stand for "Assault Rifle." It stands for "ArmaLite Rifle"--Armalite is the company that originally developed it. Generally speaking, the term "assault rifle" only includes weapons capable of automatic fire or burst fire, and the AR-15 doesn't fall into that category.
Up here we call that an assault-style rifle because of the large magazine and short barrel length. The government plays whack-a-mole trying to ban these things. The manufacturers make minor changes to get around the regulations, then the government changes the regulations.
Of course, there's no valid civilian use for an AR15 in Canada anyway. I know that's not the case in the US... :-P
"Assault-style" is an interesting term. It at least shows acknowledgement that there's a difference, although I take issue with regulating guns based on appearance/style. Where does short barrel length come into play? In the states, "short barrel" is <16 inches. Is it different up north?
I would join the assault rifle style crowd mentioned above. It is not allowed for private ownership here either. I grew up in a household with rifles for hunting and competition and are comfortable with using guns. Handgun ownership is strictly regulated so either you belong to a shooting club and compete or you are a criminal. You would never see people carrying guns in the street like you see pictures from US.
FWIW, open carry is pretty uncommon, hence why it garners attention. In the 6 years I lived in the Houston Texas area, I only once saw someone other than police openly carrying a firearm. Now, there are hundreds of thousands of civilians across the country who (legally) carry concealed on a daily basis, but you never see pictures of them, and very rarely hear news stories about them. :) Very occasionally you have instances where you'll see lots of people carrying openly, e.g. Coeur d'Alene Idaho earlier this year when they heard rumors of less-peaceful protesters coming to town (http://Coeur d'Alene Idaho earlier this year when they heard rumors of less-peaceful protesters coming to town), but that's exceedingly rare.
I saw someone open carrying while trick or treating with his kid this year. Of course, I live in the deep, deep south.
In case they are attacked by Halloween ghouls and goblins?
And silver bullets for vampires and werewolves?
I thought it was shot or treat instead of trick or treat.
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Our company has banned us from traveling anywhere this Christmas holiday. We are required to stay in the city to avoid having to undergo a two week quarantine upon our return (thereby delaying our return to work since our holiday is only two weeks long).
Is there a "industrialized" country where this sort of thing is still legal? Or are you in Bangladesh?
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Our company has banned us from traveling anywhere this Christmas holiday. We are required to stay in the city to avoid having to undergo a two week quarantine upon our return (thereby delaying our return to work since our holiday is only two weeks long).
Is there a "industrialized" country where this sort of thing is still legal? Or are you in Bangladesh?
China. Company is following government regulations.
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Our company has banned us from traveling anywhere this Christmas holiday. We are required to stay in the city to avoid having to undergo a two week quarantine upon our return (thereby delaying our return to work since our holiday is only two weeks long).
Is there a "industrialized" country where this sort of thing is still legal? Or are you in Bangladesh?
Not an employment lawyer, but it could be legal in the US too (depending on state). There are typically a specific set of protected characteristics (classes) that you can't be fired for, and travel isn't one of them. At the most basic level, you would be fired for not showing up to work. As with everything, it could be argued but I definitely would not be surprised if an employer tried to pull that.
That being said, be safe out there and don't travel this holiday, regardless of your employer's policies
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Me: "Would you ever consider moving back home eventually or you think you will stay in the states?"
Coworker: "I'll probably stay in the states, but who knows what will happen 30 years from now when I retire"
Me: "......Yeah..... a lot can change in 30 years."
Meanwhile waiting 6 years feels like an eternity. How people even think about retiring in 30+ years is beyond me.
The first step is finding a job that doesn't suck and you actually enjoy, at least most of the time...
I've been wondering how many FIRE advocates are in jobs that just suck, for one reason or another. And the rest of them, they just don't find their work fulfilling? Maybe I should post a poll!
That sounds like a fascinating discussion topic. It'd be interesting to see where people fall on the "how much I enjoy my job vs. how enthusiastic I am about FIRE" graph.
I, for one, really enjoy my job. It's stimulating, challenging, fulfilling, and has plenty of variety. I work with great people, and the atmosphere is great. But I still really really want to FIRE.
I think I am just built to find that every job sucks after approx 2 years. I don't think it is the actual job, it's me.
I was the same way. It's nice to know I'm not alone.
Welcome to the club.
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Our company has banned us from traveling anywhere this Christmas holiday. We are required to stay in the city to avoid having to undergo a two week quarantine upon our return (thereby delaying our return to work since our holiday is only two weeks long).
Is there a "industrialized" country where this sort of thing is still legal? Or are you in Bangladesh?
Not an employment lawyer, but it could be legal in the US too (depending on state). There are typically a specific set of protected characteristics (classes) that you can't be fired for, and travel isn't one of them. At the most basic level, you would be fired for not showing up to work. As with everything, it could be argued but I definitely would not be surprised if an employer tried to pull that.
That being said, be safe out there and don't travel this holiday, regardless of your employer's policies
Fired for not being able to turn up at work does not apply if you are forced by law.
If it is not forbidden to travel, than you can't be fired if it is forbidden to leave house after you traveled. You are not the cause of the hindrance but the quarantine.
If it would be different, you could also be fired because you opened the door for the postman. Or because you met your neighbor in the stairs.
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In the US at an at Will employer and state, you can be fired for absolutely anything as long as it isn’t protected. So yes, if the company tells you not to travel (or not to meet someone on the stairs), and you do (even if allowed by the government), then they could make a case for firing.
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Plenty of developed and developing countries have imposed some form of mandatory quarantine during the pandemic.
Source: https://www.trip.com/travel-restrictions-covid-19/
In response, many companies have adapted their business continuity plans, including prohibiting international travel. It makes sense, especially with the post-Thanksgiving travel spikes in COVID cases, and another spike expected after Christmas travel.
Not every job can be done remotely while in mandatory quarantine, so if the nature of the job requires someone to be on site, it would follow that the company would prohibit any action, including international travel, that would lead to mandatory quarantine.
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Our company has banned us from traveling anywhere this Christmas holiday. We are required to stay in the city to avoid having to undergo a two week quarantine upon our return (thereby delaying our return to work since our holiday is only two weeks long).
Is there a "industrialized" country where this sort of thing is still legal? Or are you in Bangladesh?
Not an employment lawyer, but it could be legal in the US too (depending on state). There are typically a specific set of protected characteristics (classes) that you can't be fired for, and travel isn't one of them. At the most basic level, you would be fired for not showing up to work. As with everything, it could be argued but I definitely would not be surprised if an employer tried to pull that.
That being said, be safe out there and don't travel this holiday, regardless of your employer's policies
Fired for not being able to turn up at work does not apply if you are forced by law.
If it is not forbidden to travel, than you can't be fired if it is forbidden to leave house after you traveled. You are not the cause of the hindrance but the quarantine.
If it would be different, you could also be fired because you opened the door for the postman. Or because you met your neighbor in the stairs.
You weren’t forced by law to travel
I would like to see someone test the law by voluntarily traveling and then filing for paid leave. That’s a nice loophole
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Our company has banned us from traveling anywhere this Christmas holiday. We are required to stay in the city to avoid having to undergo a two week quarantine upon our return (thereby delaying our return to work since our holiday is only two weeks long).
Is there a "industrialized" country where this sort of thing is still legal? Or are you in Bangladesh?
Not an employment lawyer, but it could be legal in the US too (depending on state). There are typically a specific set of protected characteristics (classes) that you can't be fired for, and travel isn't one of them. At the most basic level, you would be fired for not showing up to work. As with everything, it could be argued but I definitely would not be surprised if an employer tried to pull that.
That being said, be safe out there and don't travel this holiday, regardless of your employer's policies
Fired for not being able to turn up at work does not apply if you are forced by law.
If it is not forbidden to travel, than you can't be fired if it is forbidden to leave house after you traveled. You are not the cause of the hindrance but the quarantine.
If it would be different, you could also be fired because you opened the door for the postman. Or because you met your neighbor in the stairs.
You weren’t forced by law to travel
I would like to see someone test the law by voluntarily traveling and then filing for paid leave. That’s a nice loophole
I'm your neighbour in the Netherlands @LennStar and in here you can definitely be fired or forced to take unpaid leave if you cause yourself to be quarantained on purpose. You're the one taking the risk, the employer doesn't have to pay for that. The second you are diagnosed with Covid you get paid again because then you're ill instead of absent and you're protected then.
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Yes, choosing to travel internationally is a personal choice, and in these times, travellers have to be fully aware of the consequences: COVID test and quarantine requirements for the points of origin, transit and destination.
It can be a landmine, especially because the rules can change quickly and on short notice. If you go on holiday and your home country closes its borders, and begins to strictly limit the number of travellers who can return, you could be stranded abroad for months. This is happening right now in Australia. When the UK announced a couple of months ago that it would begin requiring quarantine for travellers returning from certain countries, it caught a lot of UK citizens abroad by surprise. Many cut short their overseas travel to make it back home before the quarantine rules took effect.
Also, filing for leave still requires company approval. If you have enough leave credits to cover both the holiday and the quarantine, great! Go on holiday wherever you want and don't show up at the office until quarantine's done.
Otherwise, the employer can require unpaid leave to bridge the gap. Others may simply not grant the leave request at all. Depending on how much they need their employees on site, any kind of voluntary international travel may just be far too risky.
Of course, all of it is extra motivation to FIRE as quickly as possible so that no employer can tell you what to do with your time, and you can travel and quarantine as much as you like without needing to worry about a job.
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Folks in my office have been requesting to telework after traveling or vacationing to states that require quarantine. It hasn't been denied yet. But if they can telework, why deny the request? Some people needed to moved their college aged children into college and then pick them up in another state. Others are helping an immediate family member move to another state for a job. And some are going on a vacation that was planned before March 2020. It's all "voluntary." But now you lose your job because you are causing yourself to be quarantined "on purpose"?
Where do you draw the line? People seem to be drawing a moral line. What if you are a person of color and you don't want your brother to drive across the country alone to start a new (very necessary) job because you are legitimately worried about his safety?
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Folks in my office have been requesting to telework after traveling or vacationing to states that require quarantine. It hasn't been denied yet. But if they can telework, why deny the request? Some people needed to moved their college aged children into college and then pick them up in another state. Others are helping an immediate family member move to another state for a job. And some are going on a vacation that was planned before March 2020. It's all "voluntary." But now you lose your job because you are causing yourself to be quarantined "on purpose"?
Where do you draw the line? People seem to be drawing a moral line. What if you are a person of color and you don't want your brother to drive across the country alone to start a new (very necessary) job because you are legitimately worried about his safety?
If they can telework, they shouldn't be in the office in the first place. And of course there's no issue in that case if people are quarantained. They are still working so an employer doesn't have a right to fire them in my country.
Yes, there is a moral line and exactly where that lies is up to a judge. Travelling to an area that requires quarantaine for a holiday is definitely over the line in my country. That's clear. But for a funeral or another emergency? I can imagine that would be a valid reason. There are no safety risks to travelling across the country where I live so that wouldn't be applicable.
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Folks in my office have been requesting to telework after traveling or vacationing to states that require quarantine. It hasn't been denied yet. But if they can telework, why deny the request? Some people needed to moved their college aged children into college and then pick them up in another state. Others are helping an immediate family member move to another state for a job. And some are going on a vacation that was planned before March 2020. It's all "voluntary." But now you lose your job because you are causing yourself to be quarantined "on purpose"?
Where do you draw the line? People seem to be drawing a moral line. What if you are a person of color and you don't want your brother to drive across the country alone to start a new (very necessary) job because you are legitimately worried about his safety?
If they can telework, they shouldn't be in the office in the first place. And of course there's no issue in that case if people are quarantained. They are still working so an employer doesn't have a right to fire them in my country.
Yes, there is a moral line and exactly where that lies is up to a judge. Travelling to an area that requires quarantaine for a holiday is definitely over the line in my country. That's clear. But for a funeral or another emergency? I can imagine that would be a valid reason. There are no safety risks to travelling across the country where I live so that wouldn't be applicable.
Correct, everyone's situation is different. if you can telework while in quarantine, go ahead.
But if you already know that the nature of your job requires you to show up physically to the office, and then you decide to travel anyway for a holiday (not for an emergency or other urgent reason) and you know in advance that you'll have to quarantine after, then that's intentional. Depending on the nature of the work and the business needs, some companies simply will not allow it.
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Listened to a watercooler discussion about guns and ammo. Hard to get ammo these days b/c demand is so high. $1+ per bullet depending.
Hm. Is there a good marketplace for selling personal quantities of ammo? I've got some I'm not going to use anytime soon.
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Listened to a watercooler discussion about guns and ammo. Hard to get ammo these days b/c demand is so high. $1+ per bullet depending.
Hm. Is there a good marketplace for selling personal quantities of ammo? I've got some I'm not going to use anytime soon.
There's no shortage of gun fetishists who have tens of thousands of rounds of ammo.
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Listened to a watercooler discussion about guns and ammo. Hard to get ammo these days b/c demand is so high. $1+ per bullet depending.
Hm. Is there a good marketplace for selling personal quantities of ammo? I've got some I'm not going to use anytime soon.
There's no shortage of gun fetishists who have tens of thousands of rounds of ammo.
Yes.
I don't really know where I would go to have them make me an offer ;)
Especially since I'm going to want to do it no contact.
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Listened to a watercooler discussion about guns and ammo. Hard to get ammo these days b/c demand is so high. $1+ per bullet depending.
Hm. Is there a good marketplace for selling personal quantities of ammo? I've got some I'm not going to use anytime soon.
Around here FB isn't too interested in enforcing their ban on it. I'm constantly seeing people selling "plastic bags" (that are full of ammo).
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Our company has banned us from traveling anywhere this Christmas holiday. We are required to stay in the city to avoid having to undergo a two week quarantine upon our return (thereby delaying our return to work since our holiday is only two weeks long).
Is there a "industrialized" country where this sort of thing is still legal? Or are you in Bangladesh?
We have this going on at my place of work, at least for the critical workers (the ones not eligible for raises, bonuses, or promotion). This is in the United States.
The critical workers have to work elbow to elbow, so we make sure to not do anything outside work that would expose us to the virus. It's a 24x7 lifestyle change. But it's also backed up by management. If we have the audacity to host family who drive in from out of town, or to drive off for a weekend in the mountains, or to take vacation or personal time in which we cross paths with people outside our household, we're quarantined at our own expense for up to twice the period of time recommended by the CDC. The same standards do not apply to the work-from-home clique.
For the work-from-home clique, whose work we kind of have to cover because telecommuting precludes any kind of hands-on activity, the rules are different. They have the option of traveling. Management will arrange exemptions to quarantine for them, and find work they can do from home. There are probably raises and promotions available for this set too because they are Designated Winners. But the grunts who make everything roll (and who take a great deal of physical risk to do it) have an entirely different (and much higher) set of standards. We, the Designated Losers, are the ones working extremely long hours under physically unsafe conditions. We are not permitted to slip schedule or scale down our operations, and when we get close to meeting a milestone management requires us to move offices or otherwise expose ourselves to more people, more buildings, and more physical risks.
The especially horrific thing is that management is planning for us to get sick. The extra red tape they are applying, and the extra work they are imposing on the onsite personnel, has consequences. Every additional building we go into, and every addition person we are required to cross paths with, increases our risk especially when the high standards applied to us don't apply to the people with whom we cross paths. Sooner or later, the clique permitted to do personal travel out of state and to go to multiple Hallowe'en parties (while the rest of us weren't even allowed to hand out candy) will catch the virus and bring it in to infect us.
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And people wonder why there are so many workplace shootings in the USA?
Remember not to shoot the other grunts.
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And people wonder why there are so many workplace shootings in the USA?
Remember not to shoot the other grunts.
Interesting anecdote:
A guy got fired from the place I work for bringing a gun into work. He was able to collect unemployment.
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And people wonder why there are so many workplace shootings in the USA?
Remember not to shoot the other grunts.
My crew and I would walk through fire for each other. I'd take a bullet to protect any of them and not count it as a loss. They would do the same for me. That's why we've been able to keep the virus away this whole time. None of us is willing to be the one who endangers the rest.
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@TheGrimSqueaker hey Grim, what kind of industry do you work in? I'm having a hard time imagining you putting up with that kind of management. I assume you have good reasons to work there, that outweigh all the negatives?
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@TheGrimSqueaker hey Grim, what kind of industry do you work in? I'm having a hard time imagining you putting up with that kind of management. I assume you have good reasons to work there, that outweigh all the negatives?
Fireproof shoes and bulletproof vests, inc.
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@TheGrimSqueaker hey Grim, what kind of industry do you work in? I'm having a hard time imagining you putting up with that kind of management. I assume you have good reasons to work there, that outweigh all the negatives?
Fireproof shoes and bulletproof vests, inc.
It's high time this forum had a Like feature, to appreciate posts like this.
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@TheGrimSqueaker hey Grim, what kind of industry do you work in? I'm having a hard time imagining you putting up with that kind of management. I assume you have good reasons to work there, that outweigh all the negatives?
A special kind of government contractor. Basically I get paid reasonably well to do what would usually be horrible, destructive things in a legally sanctioned, physically contained, and socially acceptable way. Further details are unprintable. What we do isn't nice, but I get an unbelievable thrill out of it. I'm also surrounded by hardcore badasses. In sweatshop conditions, sure, but I suppose there are tradeoffs everywhere.
What's in it for me? Well, there's the entertainment value. I still can't believe I get paid for this; the only things that would be better would be hunting terrorists or fronting a band. Also, I got into it early enough to qualify for a pension in a few years, which means FIRE.
But yeah, most of us do kind of fantasize about catching certain members of upper management in a dark alley.
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Now that does sound more like somewhere we'd find you!
If you have any (non-confidential) war stories from that workplace, do let us know.
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Now that does sound more like somewhere we'd find you!
If you have any (non-confidential) war stories from that workplace, do let us know.
Any Dilbert cartoon.
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Now that does sound more like somewhere we'd find you!
If you have any (non-confidential) war stories from that workplace, do let us know.
Any Dilbert cartoon.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjFpKffXsAAH-3X.jpg)
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Now that does sound more like somewhere we'd find you!
If you have any (non-confidential) war stories from that workplace, do let us know.
Any Dilbert cartoon.
I used to be super into Dilbert cartoons. I should get back into the habit.
Your description of your workplace combined with your forum profile pic reminded me suddenly of the Bangkok rubber duck protests. (http://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2020/nov/30/the-rubber-duck-revolution-in-pictures) Who knows, management pushes you far enough, you may stage something similar.
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Now that does sound more like somewhere we'd find you!
If you have any (non-confidential) war stories from that workplace, do let us know.
Any Dilbert cartoon.
I used to be super into Dilbert cartoons. I should get back into the habit.
Your description of your workplace combined with your forum profile pic reminded me suddenly of the Bangkok rubber duck protests. (http://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2020/nov/30/the-rubber-duck-revolution-in-pictures) Who knows, management pushes you far enough, you may stage something similar.
I totally missed that.
As a leader, seeing people with silly looking clothing etc. to protests is always the worst. It means they are really determined.
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Now that does sound more like somewhere we'd find you!
If you have any (non-confidential) war stories from that workplace, do let us know.
None of this invective is directed at you, but there's been a development.
One of the fuck weasel cunt bunnies who has access to our work area because management required us to give them the pass code, whom we have been trying to keep out but who keeps gallivanting back in, has just had a visit from the Covid fairy. This wouldn't have been a problem ordinarily because I don't care that that no-load motherfucker's idiot ass is down sick. It makes everyone else's job easier. What really rubs my clitoris with razor blades is that two of my men now are quarantined due to a work related exposure from having interacted with the moron. Shit, damn, and I tabernacle myself of all of this.
Management fucking did this to us. We BEGGED them to keep personnel with no need for access out of our work area. Instead of telling the gallivanters to fuck off, they made some of us commute to different offices while still performing our in-person work, thereby increasing the number of possible exposures. And to dodge the head count limits in the conference rooms, the titheads started having multiple group meetings in our lab. We warned the ass gobbling pricks. We fucking WARNED them.
After all the work and sacrifices to keep 24x7 protocols in place to keep from bringing the virus in, it is about to all come tumbling down because one analist shit-for-brains who didn't need access to our work area wouldn't fuck the hell off while we were getting important things done. This dick-headed twat-hammer who failed to get down with the 24x7 mission oriented protocol, and the galactic turbo douches who refused to back us up, should all be charged with treason. Every single smeg-faced git who fucked up ought to lose a job over this but they will probably be promoted instead.
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Now that does sound more like somewhere we'd find you!
If you have any (non-confidential) war stories from that workplace, do let us know.
None of this invective is directed at you, but there's been a development.
One of the fuck weasel cunt bunnies who has access to our work area because management required us to give them the pass code, whom we have been trying to keep out but who keeps gallivanting back in, has just had a visit from the Covid fairy. This wouldn't have been a problem ordinarily because I don't care that that no-load motherfucker's idiot ass is down sick. It makes everyone else's job easier. What really rubs my clitoris with razor blades is that two of my men now are quarantined due to a work related exposure from having interacted with the moron. Shit, damn, and I tabernacle myself of all of this.
Management fucking did this to us. We BEGGED them to keep personnel with no need for access out of our work area. Instead of telling the gallivanters to fuck off, they made some of us commute to different offices while still performing our in-person work, thereby increasing the number of possible exposures. And to dodge the head count limits in the conference rooms, the titheads started having multiple group meetings in our lab. We warned the ass gobbling pricks. We fucking WARNED them.
After all the work and sacrifices to keep 24x7 protocols in place to keep from bringing the virus in, it is about to all come tumbling down because one analist shit-for-brains who didn't need access to our work area wouldn't fuck the hell off while we were getting important things done. This dick-headed twat-hammer who failed to get down with the 24x7 mission oriented protocol, and the galactic turbo douches who refused to back us up, should all be charged with treason. Every single smeg-faced git who fucked up ought to lose a job over this but they will probably be promoted instead.
I am terribly sorry this has happened to you, but I must say they way you string together obscenities has touched me in ways nothing has before. For that, I thank you. That is all.
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Now that does sound more like somewhere we'd find you!
If you have any (non-confidential) war stories from that workplace, do let us know.
None of this invective is directed at you, but there's been a development.
[Management incompetence described with highly amusing and creative profanity]
Rubber duck revolution time, @TheGrimSqueaker
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Of course those responsible will promote one another -- otherwise someone would have to admit they screwed up -- and that's never on the table.
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Now I know why the squeaker is so grim
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I was talking to a pair of coworkers the other week. I adore them both, and while we were talking about income inequality and damaging social conventions, I was down with the conversation. Then one of them said that the American dream is dead, the other agreed, and I was so flabbergasted that I couldn't think of anything to say.
Of the three of us, two have Master's degrees. The other is thinking about getting a Master's, and we work for an organization that will help with at least part of the cost. One of them has moved up through the ranks of the organization and is now Asst. Director of our department. I was able to leave a toxic job and work part time for a while. All three of us have paychecks that are as steady as you can get right now, healthcare, and retirement. Granted, the paychecks aren't super duper high, but they're not terrible. I was able to start a couple of side gigs and put that money aside, and I know both these women have some in-demand skills they could monetize.
All three of us are living the American dream, so it struck me as odd they would think it was dead.
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@Warlord1986 , that's a very fashionable belief amongst many of my fellow liberals. It's utter rubbish.
Now, where they are right is that for some folks in some situations, it's a hell of a lot harder to make that dream work, and as a society we need to fix that.
But for regular middle class folks with steady jobs, who aren't subjected to catastrophic medical or legal woes, we know that the American dream is alive and well. Your friends don't.
Did you tell them about FIRE? Don't expect any changes from them, it's easier to blame "the system" or "them" than it is to change one's own behavior.
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I have mentioned frugal living and the importance of saving money. It is usually drowned out by the importance of subscribing to every streaming service under the sun, eating out, and clothing box subscriptions. One coworker and I had a conversation about batch cooking, which relieves the desire to get take out after long days at work. However, he belongs to a religious/ethnic minority that has been historically derided for practicing money management, so I'm cautious about mentioning the subject to him.
I've been a bit more open about to the Dept. Director, and I've gotten some hints that he appreciates good financial management.
However, I do have a friend who is working two jobs, trying to rebuild her emergency fund, and pay down debt. I've been a little bit more open about it with her. I try to mention the things I think she's doing really well in (rebuilding the emergency fund, ditching the spendy-jerk boyfriend), and encourage her to put money aside and be more disciplined about spending. I just gifted her some old jars for storing chopped veggies in for later cooking, and she seemed to really appreciate that. Hopefully that will stick.
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@Warlord1986 @SwordGuy I'm not an American, but I've been raised with the concept of the American dream as an aspiration that could be possible for me, if I wanted it.
When I visited the States last year, I was struck by two things: first, the general waste and excess. People have so much stuff. Even poor people have houses full of consumer junk! I wondered, how can they call themselves poor when they have cars, smartphones, home internet, Amazon Prime, their own rooms, their own beds? I don't doubt there are truly poor people in America, but many of those who call themselves "poor" have normalized a standard of living that, in many other countries, is enjoyed only by the wealthy.
Second, I saw that, despite its well-publicized problems, there is still amazing opportunity in America. There are so many ways to earn a decent living.
And so it saddens me that so many Americans are cynical and jaded about the American dream, and say that it is dead. It's not dead. Many have just taken it for granted.
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I think it depends on what you mean by "American Dream". Did the coworkers talk about themselves, or the society as a whole? And what did they mean axactly by that dream?
Because if it is about the "dishwasher to millionaire" story, they are right. Social mobility in the USA is one of the worst in the world.
The "Socialist" nordic states are way better for example. That is because A) the difference beween the upper and lower parts is smaller and B) that is helped by everyone getting a good education and health care and unemployment help. The starting point is better and the race to top-ish shorter.
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Any level of hobby can look ridiculous to those looking on from the outside, especially spouses.
When I was motorcycle racing, people would take a brand new $6000 motorcycle and put 3 grand or more into "upgrades" that were NOT required by the safety rules*.
I was tempted, but I knew the problem was not the bike, it was me.
I had evidence. I was endurance racing, and had a partner who got on my bike and proceeded to go 15% faster than I did. Same bike same tires same gas same day same weather etc etc.
This means that in a 10 lap race he would have lapped me at least once.
* When I had a racebike stolen, I bought a used racebike and counted up all the extras that were on it and came up with at least 3 grand.
I get it. I have a 350 lb 200 song iPod equivalent.
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@Warlord1986 @SwordGuy I'm not an American, but I've been raised with the concept of the American dream as an aspiration that could be possible for me, if I wanted it.
When I visited the States last year, I was struck by two things: first, the general waste and excess. People have so much stuff. Even poor people have houses full of consumer junk! I wondered, how can they call themselves poor when they have cars, smartphones, home internet, Amazon Prime, their own rooms, their own beds? I don't doubt there are truly poor people in America, but many of those who call themselves "poor" have normalized a standard of living that, in many other countries, is enjoyed only by the wealthy.
Second, I saw that, despite its well-publicized problems, there is still amazing opportunity in America. There are so many ways to earn a decent living.
And so it saddens me that so many Americans are cynical and jaded about the American dream, and say that it is dead. It's not dead. Many have just taken it for granted.
This is why I actually love immigrants to the US. They see opportunities and dreams to be had whereas born-and-bred Americans are so often blind to it.
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@Warlord1986 @SwordGuy I'm not an American, but I've been raised with the concept of the American dream as an aspiration that could be possible for me, if I wanted it.
When I visited the States last year, I was struck by two things: first, the general waste and excess. People have so much stuff. Even poor people have houses full of consumer junk! I wondered, how can they call themselves poor when they have cars, smartphones, home internet, Amazon Prime, their own rooms, their own beds? I don't doubt there are truly poor people in America, but many of those who call themselves "poor" have normalized a standard of living that, in many other countries, is enjoyed only by the wealthy.
Second, I saw that, despite its well-publicized problems, there is still amazing opportunity in America. There are so many ways to earn a decent living.
And so it saddens me that so many Americans are cynical and jaded about the American dream, and say that it is dead. It's not dead. Many have just taken it for granted.
This is why I actually love immigrants to the US. They see opportunities and dreams to be had whereas born-and-bred Americans are so often blind to it.
Ditto! The Millionaire Next Door showed that the longer an ethnic group had been in the US in numbers, the lower its percentage of millionaires.
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@Warlord1986 @SwordGuy I'm not an American, but I've been raised with the concept of the American dream as an aspiration that could be possible for me, if I wanted it.
When I visited the States last year, I was struck by two things: first, the general waste and excess. People have so much stuff. Even poor people have houses full of consumer junk! I wondered, how can they call themselves poor when they have cars, smartphones, home internet, Amazon Prime, their own rooms, their own beds? I don't doubt there are truly poor people in America, but many of those who call themselves "poor" have normalized a standard of living that, in many other countries, is enjoyed only by the wealthy.
Second, I saw that, despite its well-publicized problems, there is still amazing opportunity in America. There are so many ways to earn a decent living.
And so it saddens me that so many Americans are cynical and jaded about the American dream, and say that it is dead. It's not dead. Many have just taken it for granted.
This is why I actually love immigrants to the US. They see opportunities and dreams to be had whereas born-and-bred Americans are so often blind to it.
As an immigrant, I was ready to do whatever it took to make it in the US. I went from zero to a six-figure income in six years.
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This is just a silly little story... but it made me shake my head a bit.
I have a work friend who knows that the Hudsoncat family tends to be on frugal side and likes to gently tease about what they consider "extreme" cost cuttings sometimes (for the record I don't even think we are very mustachian. We still have some wasteful spending that I know we could rein in if we wanted). So she asked how I was saving money this month while we were waiting for another co-worker to log on to the meeting the other day.
Me: Oh, once Mr. Hudsoncat is done watching the Mandalorian season, it's time to turn off Disney+ and turn on Netflix.
CW: wait, you turn streaming services on and off?!
Me: Yes. We don't watch a ton of TV anyway, so we'll turn one on, watch whatever we want, turn it off, move on to another one. Wash & repeat.
CW: You do this regularly?
Me: Not really, we switch every 4-6 months?
CW: That seems like a lot of work to save so little money!
Me: Well, again we don't watch a lot of TV. And switching only takes like 5-10 minutes. I mean how many streaming services can you regularly watch at any given time!
CW: We have at least 5. Maybe 6? I don't know. I think [husband] added the Apple one last month. At least if they are all active I know I can watch them if I want to!
Me: Don't you also have cable?
CW: Well yes, but we get our internet cheaper because we have cable too.
Our other co-worker joined at that point and we started the meeting. But I couldn't help shaking my head a bit to myself.
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@hudsoncat,
I do that too! I have at most two going at at time, sometimes one.
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Cable bills suddenly sound outrageous when you break them up into 5 or 6 different streaming subscriptions, even if they total to roughly the same price. Yikes!
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We’ve had Disney plus this year due to the Amex platinum streaming credit (got it got the bonus and then they waived our last AF... almost feel bad for them how much we’ve profited from this card). Mentioned to wife we would be canceling if they don’t waive the fee again, so let’s finish anything we need to watch, and she was like NOOO. We watch maybe 1 movie every 2 months. I was like... we can just pay for a month if we feel like watching something and then she got it.
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An acquaintance at work asked to meet up with me a couple months ago to talk about “finances and job satisfaction”. Even though they are an upper middle class couple with a household income of ~$500k, they were stressed out because they had no savings and “everything in this VHCOL city is so expensive!” They live in a four bedroom penthouse suite overlooking a man made lake. Meanwhile, my family spends $1000/month and $1500 when we are really splurgy.
Well, they’ve been posting their Christmas staycation pictures for everyone to see. They haven’t left the city. Instead they’ve choosing to stay at the Ritz Carlton downtown. They also both look like they’ve been freshly botoxed. Their mouths are curled upwards but everything else on their faces look strangely smooth and frozen. I think they’re in their late 30s.
Well, now I know why you have no savings.
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... upper middle class wealthycouple with a household income of ~$500k...
There, fixed that for you.
(Yes, I realize “wealth” is a net worth measure and “income” is not, but their income would allow them to become wealthy if they made better choices...)
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... upper middle class wealthycouple with a household income of ~$500k...
There, fixed that for you.
(Yes, I realize “wealth” is a net worth measure and “income” is not, but their income would allow them to become wealthy if they made better choices...)
I like the term "Income Affluent" as opposed to "Balance Sheet Affluent". These are not my terms; they come from Thomas Stanley's work.
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I like the term "Income Affluent" as opposed to "Balance Sheet Affluent". These are not my terms; they come from Thomas Stanley's work.
Oh, I like those. Thanks!
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Coworkers in the break room were comparing their auto insurance rates.
Coworker 1: "I pay a little over $300 a month for the insurance on all 4 of my vehicles"
Coworker 2: "Hah! I only pay $280 a month for all six of my vehicles!"
Me: "I pay for 6 months up front but it works out to be $48 a month for my 1 car."
Coworker 2: "Is that just for liability?"
Me: "Yeah"
Coworker 1: "What are you gonna do if you total it?"
Me: "Take off the license plate and buy another car with cash?"
Coworker 1 is a single 21 year old guy, has a newish Dodge Charger, early 2010s pickup truck, and 2 motorcycles. Coworker 2 is a married guy in his 40s, unsure what all his fleet consists of but I know he mentioned at least 2 cars and 2 trucks. Both of these guys make about what I do, around $60k a year. I'd expect that their vehicles are probably eating up around a quarter of their take home pay, after accounting for loan payments, insurance, registration, and fuel. And yet somehow I'm the crazy one for only having one car that I own outright and don't carry full coverage on.
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Me: "Take off the license plate and buy another car with cash?"
Is this a PA thing? I thought most states registered licence plates to specific cars
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Me: "Take off the license plate and buy another car with cash?"
Is this a PA thing? I thought most states registered licence plates to specific cars
Naw, it's the same way in Ontario. The plate stays with the owner.
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Me: "Take off the license plate and buy another car with cash?"
Is this a PA thing? I thought most states registered licence plates to specific cars
It's both, sorta. The plate belongs to the owner, and when you sell the car, you take your plate off. Then when you go get the new car registered, you register your plate to the new vehicle. (I'm in PA)
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Me: "Take off the license plate and buy another car with cash?"
Is this a PA thing? I thought most states registered licence plates to specific cars
Naw, it's the same way in Ontario. The plate stays with the owner.
Glad to hear Ontario is finally a state!
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Me: "Take off the license plate and buy another car with cash?"
Is this a PA thing? I thought most states registered licence plates to specific cars
Naw, it's the same way in Ontario. The plate stays with the owner.
Same in Michigan maybe it’s because PA and MI are close to Canada.
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Me: "Take off the license plate and buy another car with cash?"
Is this a PA thing? I thought most states registered licence plates to specific cars
Naw, it's the same way in Ontario. The plate stays with the owner.
Glad to hear Ontario is finally a state!
Oooh, look who found some nits to pick over the holidays!
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I have a coworker who is always complaining about money problems to me. I've been offering for years to help them with a budget but have never been taken up on it. This week, we were talking about how they only had a few hundred dollars to last until next paycheck, and I suggested they learn to cook in 2021. This person eats out for EVERY MEAL. Breakfast, lunch and dinner. The response I got was, "But eating out is so cheap. For $8 I can get a full meal..."
$8 is cheap?
Yesterday we had dinner at home which came out to $3 per person. Throughout the course of a year, eating 3 meals a day, $3/meal adds up to $3,285.00 vs $8,760.00 for $8/meal. That's a difference of $5,475.00. Over the 4 years this coworker and I have been working together, that could have been a grand total of $21,900.00.
It's really amazing how much impact our eating habits have on our spending.
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Me: "Take off the license plate and buy another car with cash?"
Is this a PA thing? I thought most states registered licence plates to specific cars
It's both, sorta. The plate belongs to the owner, and when you sell the car, you take your plate off. Then when you go get the new car registered, you register your plate to the new vehicle. (I'm in PA)
Texas does this as well.
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Me: "Take off the license plate and buy another car with cash?"
Is this a PA thing? I thought most states registered licence plates to specific cars
It's both, sorta. The plate belongs to the owner, and when you sell the car, you take your plate off. Then when you go get the new car registered, you register your plate to the new vehicle. (I'm in PA)
Texas does this as well.
NJ gives you the option of transferring the plate to a new car or just turning it in and getting a new plate. Depending on when you registered the old car, it can be cheaper to transfer the plate, which is what I did for our last two cars.
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It's really amazing how much impact our eating habits have on our spending.
Absolutely! I bought lunch when I first started working (year ago) but soon stopped after I realized how much I was spending on eating out every day.
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Me: "Take off the license plate and buy another car with cash?"
Is this a PA thing? I thought most states registered licence plates to specific cars
Naw, it's the same way in Ontario. The plate stays with the owner.
Glad to hear Ontario is finally a state!
Oooh, look who found some nits to pick over the holidays!
Thanks to COVID it’s not just for the holidays. I’m actually doing it full time now.
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I have a coworker who is always complaining about money problems to me. I've been offering for years to help them with a budget but have never been taken up on it. This week, we were talking about how they only had a few hundred dollars to last until next paycheck, and I suggested they learn to cook in 2021. This person eats out for EVERY MEAL. Breakfast, lunch and dinner. The response I got was, "But eating out is so cheap. For $8 I can get a full meal..."
$8 is cheap?
Yesterday we had dinner at home which came out to $3 per person. Throughout the course of a year, eating 3 meals a day, $3/meal adds up to $3,285.00 vs $8,760.00 for $8/meal. That's a difference of $5,475.00. Over the 4 years this coworker and I have been working together, that could have been a grand total of $21,900.00.
It's really amazing how much impact our eating habits have on our spending.
My favorite example from the forums is still the guy who went to Starbucks in the morning and midday for a 4$ coffee each time while he got free coffee from his work.
It's literally a fucking house during the "normal" work life that is going into bad coffee there.
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I have a coworker who is always complaining about money problems to me. I've been offering for years to help them with a budget but have never been taken up on it. This week, we were talking about how they only had a few hundred dollars to last until next paycheck, and I suggested they learn to cook in 2021. This person eats out for EVERY MEAL. Breakfast, lunch and dinner. The response I got was, "But eating out is so cheap. For $8 I can get a full meal..."
$8 is cheap?
Yesterday we had dinner at home which came out to $3 per person. Throughout the course of a year, eating 3 meals a day, $3/meal adds up to $3,285.00 vs $8,760.00 for $8/meal. That's a difference of $5,475.00. Over the 4 years this coworker and I have been working together, that could have been a grand total of $21,900.00.
It's really amazing how much impact our eating habits have on our spending.
My favorite example from the forums is still the guy who went to Starbucks in the morning and midday for a 4$ coffee each time while he got free coffee from his work.
It's literally a fucking house during the "normal" work life that is going into bad coffee there.
Our office got a super nice coffee machine last year. It's huge; makes espresso, cappuccino, hot chocolate, you name it. This thing can even add a dash of vanilla or chocolate flavor if you're feeling fancy. It's always stocked and free to use. Still, people walk across the street to Starbucks every day. I'll never understand.
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In my previous non-Mustachian reincarnation, I was a daily Starbucks regular.
I did it to treat myself, to get out of the office, and away from a horrible commute, a job I disliked and coworkers I didn't really get along with. All these factors created an emotional void that wouldn't have been fulfilled by free coffee in the office, no matter how nice.
About a year of this nonsense, I found MMM and realized I was just undermining myself.
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In my previous non-Mustachian reincarnation, I was a daily Starbucks regular.
I did it to treat myself, to get out of the office, and away from a horrible commute, a job I disliked and coworkers I didn't really get along with. All these factors created an emotional void that wouldn't have been fulfilled by free coffee in the office, no matter how nice.
About a year of this nonsense, I found MMM and realized I was just undermining myself.
Good for you! When I need to get out, I usually just take the free coffee and go for a walk with a mug.
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In my previous non-Mustachian reincarnation, I was a daily Starbucks regular.
I did it to treat myself, to get out of the office, and away from a horrible commute, a job I disliked and coworkers I didn't really get along with. All these factors created an emotional void that wouldn't have been fulfilled by free coffee in the office, no matter how nice.
About a year of this nonsense, I found MMM and realized I was just undermining myself.
Good for you! When I need to get out, I usually just take the free coffee and go for a walk with a mug.
Thanks :) Sometimes I look back on those times and shake my head. But if I hadn't been a former consumerist, I wouldn't have the frugal convictions that I have today.
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I used to have a Starbucks habit as well, which was during my a term (~3mo) of my first co-op. I didn't have the excuse of hating my job/commute/coworkers; I just liked the coffee and pumpkin bread. This, too, was before I dicovered MMM, and during my early college days. During a different term with the same employer, I also made a habit of walking to a Jimmy John's to get lunch every day.
That sure was some wasted cash. But looking back, it's certainly not the worst of the bad habits I've developed in my life.
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I have a coworker who is always complaining about money problems to me. I've been offering for years to help them with a budget but have never been taken up on it. This week, we were talking about how they only had a few hundred dollars to last until next paycheck, and I suggested they learn to cook in 2021. This person eats out for EVERY MEAL. Breakfast, lunch and dinner. The response I got was, "But eating out is so cheap. For $8 I can get a full meal..."
$8 is cheap?
Yesterday we had dinner at home which came out to $3 per person. Throughout the course of a year, eating 3 meals a day, $3/meal adds up to $3,285.00 vs $8,760.00 for $8/meal. That's a difference of $5,475.00. Over the 4 years this coworker and I have been working together, that could have been a grand total of $21,900.00.
It's really amazing how much impact our eating habits have on our spending.
Food is definitely the line item with the most room for improvement for me. I've optimized just about every other expense, but I still don't really do much cooking. I need to change that this year.
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I have a coworker who is always complaining about money problems to me. I've been offering for years to help them with a budget but have never been taken up on it. This week, we were talking about how they only had a few hundred dollars to last until next paycheck, and I suggested they learn to cook in 2021. This person eats out for EVERY MEAL. Breakfast, lunch and dinner. The response I got was, "But eating out is so cheap. For $8 I can get a full meal..."
$8 is cheap?
Yesterday we had dinner at home which came out to $3 per person. Throughout the course of a year, eating 3 meals a day, $3/meal adds up to $3,285.00 vs $8,760.00 for $8/meal. That's a difference of $5,475.00. Over the 4 years this coworker and I have been working together, that could have been a grand total of $21,900.00.
It's really amazing how much impact our eating habits have on our spending.
Food is definitely the line item with the most room for improvement for me. I've optimized just about every other expense, but I still don't really do much cooking. I need to change that this year.
Come join us: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/throw-down-the-gauntlet/january-2021-healthy-habits/
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Had a holiday conversation with a coworker this week that was so similar to ones written about here I kind of wanted to look for a hidden camera. Huge grocery bills, two car payments, one income, huge utility bills and nothing left over. As each layer of the onion was revealed - quick math showed how their choices were multiples of x2 and x3 of what we spend in the same city. And we don't have any car payments.
If we can do it, they can do it. With one spouse at home, there ought to be a spare moment or two between them to optimize some of their choices.
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I'm part of a group at work who all log into our 401Ks the first day of the year and compare investment returns.
Sadly, I seem to be among the most risk-averse, with 20% of my account in bonds, so my 9.96% ROR for 2020 was not very competitive.
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Another chapter to my story above: already two car payments and now a desire to own a Tesla (actively shopping). Coworker makes similar money to me but is sole income earner at their house. Even basic mental math shows this would be nearly impossible without parental gifts. Whew.
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I desire to own a tesla.
But my lifestyle at the moment would make it impossible to justify buying a second car if I hadn't already entered April 2020 having that second car. It's really getting more use for storage right now than it is for transportation.
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I'd love to have a Tesla S. Can't justify it with our 10 minute commute. Maybe a Chevy Bolt or Nissan Leaf someday. Don't need any more/newer cars right now.
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I’m in law enforcement, we have lots of gun nuts. I will never be one because I’m not willing to pay $500 plus for one.
That's where I'm at. I was in the military and would love to have a pistol like the one I carried on duty just as a toy to occasionally take out and target shoot with but I won't pay those prices.
I really don't NEED a gun of any type. The town where I live is very safe and I don't go other places that are unsafe. I a have several friends here that carry all the time. I don't see the point.
Cost, hassle, risk.
A little folding pocket knife to open boxes and and clean my fingernails is enough for me. ;)
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I have a coworker who is always complaining about money problems to me. I've been offering for years to help them with a budget but have never been taken up on it. This week, we were talking about how they only had a few hundred dollars to last until next paycheck, and I suggested they learn to cook in 2021. This person eats out for EVERY MEAL. Breakfast, lunch and dinner. The response I got was, "But eating out is so cheap. For $8 I can get a full meal..."
$8 is cheap?
Yesterday we had dinner at home which came out to $3 per person. Throughout the course of a year, eating 3 meals a day, $3/meal adds up to $3,285.00 vs $8,760.00 for $8/meal. That's a difference of $5,475.00. Over the 4 years this coworker and I have been working together, that could have been a grand total of $21,900.00.
It's really amazing how much impact our eating habits have on our spending.
I'd hate the hassle and stress of going out to eat every day. Going out 3 times a day? I'd not have any time to do anything else other than going out to eat.
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I have a coworker who is always complaining about money problems to me. I've been offering for years to help them with a budget but have never been taken up on it. This week, we were talking about how they only had a few hundred dollars to last until next paycheck, and I suggested they learn to cook in 2021. This person eats out for EVERY MEAL. Breakfast, lunch and dinner. The response I got was, "But eating out is so cheap. For $8 I can get a full meal..."
$8 is cheap?
Yesterday we had dinner at home which came out to $3 per person. Throughout the course of a year, eating 3 meals a day, $3/meal adds up to $3,285.00 vs $8,760.00 for $8/meal. That's a difference of $5,475.00. Over the 4 years this coworker and I have been working together, that could have been a grand total of $21,900.00.
It's really amazing how much impact our eating habits have on our spending.
I'd hate the hassle and stress of going out to eat every day. Going out 3 times a day? I'd not have any time to do anything else other than going out to eat.
I traveled for 6 months and after a couple of months I was so tired of making the decision were I would eat and what I should eat every day three times a day. I actually missed cooking and I don’t even like cooking.
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I have a coworker who is always complaining about money problems to me. I've been offering for years to help them with a budget but have never been taken up on it. This week, we were talking about how they only had a few hundred dollars to last until next paycheck, and I suggested they learn to cook in 2021. This person eats out for EVERY MEAL. Breakfast, lunch and dinner. The response I got was, "But eating out is so cheap. For $8 I can get a full meal..."
$8 is cheap?
Yesterday we had dinner at home which came out to $3 per person. Throughout the course of a year, eating 3 meals a day, $3/meal adds up to $3,285.00 vs $8,760.00 for $8/meal. That's a difference of $5,475.00. Over the 4 years this coworker and I have been working together, that could have been a grand total of $21,900.00.
It's really amazing how much impact our eating habits have on our spending.
I'd hate the hassle and stress of going out to eat every day. Going out 3 times a day? I'd not have any time to do anything else other than going out to eat.
No kidding, blech. We have been eating out once/ week because of COVID (getting takeout), which is 2 to 3x normal. I don't like it!
I could improve our grocery bill, but honestly, with COVID, kids schooling at home, FT job...I just switched to Instacart, and that's going to increase my bill, and I just don't care.
$8670 a year though...for one person. Our grocery bill last year for the 4 of us was $11,000 and change, then you have to add about $2k for eating out.
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New guy at work is probably late-30s, doing entry-level labor work. Needed to take an advance on his paycheck just a couple days in, we don’t normally do that, but agreed to pay him early for the two days already worked. He also said he couldn’t afford to get the proper work clothing etc right away. Meanwhile he is driving a full-size truck, smokes and eats out every day for lunch. He also complains about collections calling him as well as the money he figures he owes in taxes. I found out he has been doing 20 hours a week of side work at $25/h, which he says is his “fun money” for smoking and eating out etc. I said that sounds like a lot of work to maintain those habits. $2k a month wasted while complaining about money. I just can’t even.
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2k a month on fun money, oh goodness. That's our whole base budget, if you don't count what we spend/save on our daughter's education. I can only image how fast he could reach FIRE if he buckled down. I kind of hope he's not married and doesn't have kids. I'd think even a more normal consumer would think that's excessive.
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2k a month on fun money, oh goodness. That's our whole base budget, if you don't count what we spend/save on our daughter's education. I can only image how fast he could reach FIRE if he buckled down. I kind of hope he's not married and doesn't have kids. I'd think even a more normal consumer would think that's excessive.
He’s divorced, no kids thankfully. Yeah, our base expenses are $3k in semi-hcol area for our family of 3, and our “fun money” eating out, entertainment etc is barely 1/10 of his. Shooting for a 50% savings rate this year. I definitely wouldn’t spend a nickel on anything non-essential if I was even remotely broke. Even a small setback like a vehicle breakdown or minor health issues and this guy’s whole life could literally unravel into homelessness with the way he manages things.
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No kidding, blech. We have been eating out once/ week because of COVID (getting takeout)
I don’t follow this logic. What about Covid makes you eat out more often?
I’ve eaten out far less during Covid because it’s such a pain in the ass to disinfect (I reheat everything to 165). I am aware that there’s “no evidence” for food borne Covid spread, but I also don’t know what studies have been done to prove/disprove the hypothesis. Whenever I see that there’s “no evidence” for something I ask what evidence might be Availabe. For example, has someone innoculated food with Covid and fed it to 100 monkeys? No. Has someone done intense contact tracing of an unmasked symptomatic line cook to see if any of their customers has contracted Covid? Maybe? I haven’t seen that study. I’m willing to accept that it’s an unlikely avenue for transmission but also know that restaurant back of house is and has always been filthy so I don’t really trust those guys to take any precautions unless I’ve personally visited the kitchen
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We've been getting more takeout because we want to support our local restaurants. It's not like they're essential to our day to day lives, but they add essential character to our town and I want them to survive.
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No kidding, blech. We have been eating out once/ week because of COVID (getting takeout)
I don’t follow this logic. What about Covid makes you eat out more often?
I’ve eaten out far less during Covid because it’s such a pain in the ass to disinfect (I reheat everything to 165). I am aware that there’s “no evidence” for food borne Covid spread, but I also don’t know what studies have been done to prove/disprove the hypothesis. Whenever I see that there’s “no evidence” for something I ask what evidence might be Availabe. For example, has someone innoculated food with Covid and fed it to 100 monkeys? No. Has someone done intense contact tracing of an unmasked symptomatic line cook to see if any of their customers has contracted Covid? Maybe? I haven’t seen that study. I’m willing to accept that it’s an unlikely avenue for transmission but also know that restaurant back of house is and has always been filthy so I don’t really trust those guys to take any precautions unless I’ve personally visited the kitchen
That sound exhausting, and frankly anti-mustachian*/anti-math. We’ve been doing this for more than a year. If there were cases of people catching Covid from takeout food we’d have heard about it by now. You’re far more likely to get e.coli or similar than Covid from food
*anti-mustachian in the sense of expending time/effort to insure against things they have a microscopic chance of happening.
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No kidding, blech. We have been eating out once/ week because of COVID (getting takeout)
I don’t follow this logic. What about Covid makes you eat out more often?
I’ve eaten out far less during Covid because it’s such a pain in the ass to disinfect (I reheat everything to 165). I am aware that there’s “no evidence” for food borne Covid spread, but I also don’t know what studies have been done to prove/disprove the hypothesis. Whenever I see that there’s “no evidence” for something I ask what evidence might be Availabe. For example, has someone innoculated food with Covid and fed it to 100 monkeys? No. Has someone done intense contact tracing of an unmasked symptomatic line cook to see if any of their customers has contracted Covid? Maybe? I haven’t seen that study. I’m willing to accept that it’s an unlikely avenue for transmission but also know that restaurant back of house is and has always been filthy so I don’t really trust those guys to take any precautions unless I’ve personally visited the kitchen
That sound exhausting, and frankly anti-mustachian*/anti-math. We’ve been doing this for more than a year. If there were cases of people catching Covid from takeout food we’d have heard about it by now. You’re far more likely to get e.coli or similar than Covid from food
*anti-mustachian in the sense of expending time/effort to insure against things they have a microscopic chance of happening.
Says the guy who said he has been eating out once a week “because of Covid” but doesn’t answer why Covid makes him eat out more.
Ecoli is also a great reason to reheat your takeout food, so It’s just a win win. It too much trouble so I cook my own food as much as possible, which is far more mustachian from both a math and philosophical point of view
I also personally think it’s super mustachian to insure against things that are low-probability but high-cost. I have liability insurance in case I run someone over because I cannot afford that payout. I have fire insurance in case my home burns down because the price of rebuilding will seriously impact my savings. I microwave my food for 2 minutes and wear a mask because no amount of money will bring me back from the dead
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No kidding, blech. We have been eating out once/ week because of COVID (getting takeout)
I don’t follow this logic. What about Covid makes you eat out more often?
I’ve eaten out far less during Covid because it’s such a pain in the ass to disinfect (I reheat everything to 165). I am aware that there’s “no evidence” for food borne Covid spread, but I also don’t know what studies have been done to prove/disprove the hypothesis. Whenever I see that there’s “no evidence” for something I ask what evidence might be Availabe. For example, has someone innoculated food with Covid and fed it to 100 monkeys? No. Has someone done intense contact tracing of an unmasked symptomatic line cook to see if any of their customers has contracted Covid? Maybe? I haven’t seen that study. I’m willing to accept that it’s an unlikely avenue for transmission but also know that restaurant back of house is and has always been filthy so I don’t really trust those guys to take any precautions unless I’ve personally visited the kitchen
That sound exhausting, and frankly anti-mustachian*/anti-math. We’ve been doing this for more than a year. If there were cases of people catching Covid from takeout food we’d have heard about it by now. You’re far more likely to get e.coli or similar than Covid from food
*anti-mustachian in the sense of expending time/effort to insure against things they have a microscopic chance of happening.
Says the guy who said he has been eating out once a week “because of Covid” but doesn’t answer why Covid makes him eat out more.
Ecoli is also a great reason to reheat your takeout food, so It’s just a win win. It too much trouble so I cook my own food as much as possible, which is far more mustachian from both a math and philosophical point of view
I also personally think it’s super mustachian to insure against things that are low-probability but high-cost. I have liability insurance in case I run someone over because I cannot afford that payout. I have fire insurance in case my home burns down because the price of rebuilding will seriously impact my savings. I microwave my food for 2 minutes and wear a mask because no amount of money will bring me back from the dead
I never said anything about eating out due to Covid, that was someone else.
Unless you are elderly or have significant other issues, the odds of dying of Covid are infinitesimal. I had Covid back in October, it was an extremely mild cold, lasted for a day. Aside from loosing smell for a week, it was a total non issue.
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We’ve been doing this for more than a year. If there were cases of people catching Covid from takeout food we’d have heard about it by now.
I had Covid back in October
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We’ve been doing this for more than a year. If there were cases of people catching Covid from takeout food we’d have heard about it by now.
I had Covid back in October
I’d like to hear about the contact tracing that was done
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My bad on the name mixup
There’s a lot we don’t know because nobody in power wants to know.
My gut does say take out is a small risk so I’m willing to put a small effort into avoiding that risk
If we want to be anecdotal, I got sick a lot more when I was eating more takeout food
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We’ve been doing this for more than a year. If there were cases of people catching Covid from takeout food we’d have heard about it by now.
I had Covid back in October
I’d like to hear about the contact tracing that was done
My in laws went to a wedding, outside, and caught it from a guest. Then they came to my house and gave it to us because their fucking moron doctor told them “it’s only a sinus infection.” Thank God they gave it to us and not the other way around because if I gave it to them I’d never hear the end of it.
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Now I know why the squeaker is so grim
In other news, my manager was just promoted. We've got a new bungee boss who is deferring to our absentee team lead and absorbing his lack of clue.
I, however, have a job offer in a different division and my last day is in mid-May. It sucks to leave my crew but I cannot abide this level of dysfunctional incompetence.
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2k a month on fun money, oh goodness. That's our whole base budget, if you don't count what we spend/save on our daughter's education. I can only image how fast he could reach FIRE if he buckled down. I kind of hope he's not married and doesn't have kids. I'd think even a more normal consumer would think that's excessive.
He’s divorced, no kids thankfully. Yeah, our base expenses are $3k in semi-hcol area for our family of 3, and our “fun money” eating out, entertainment etc is barely 1/10 of his. Shooting for a 50% savings rate this year. I definitely wouldn’t spend a nickel on anything non-essential if I was even remotely broke. Even a small setback like a vehicle breakdown or minor health issues and this guy’s whole life could literally unravel into homelessness with the way he manages things.
That mentality could explain why he's divorced. People can seldom be financially irresponsible well into their twenties or thirties unless they have an enabler. But even married people eventually get tired of wiping butt.
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Now I know why the squeaker is so grim
In other news, my manager was just promoted. We've got a new bungee boss who is deferring to our absentee team lead and absorbing his lack of clue.
I, however, have a job offer in a different division and my last day is in mid-May. It sucks to leave my crew but I cannot abide this level of dysfunctional incompetence.
@TheGrimSqueaker ,
Last day as in taking the new job offer or retiring for good?
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I'm jumping off a sinking ship. Manager at new company has verbally confirmed an offer is forthcoming.
Current job can't for the life of them figure out why all the best employees are leaving.
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I'm jumping off a sinking ship. Manager at new company has verbally confirmed an offer is forthcoming.
Current job can't for the life of them figure out why all the best employees are leaving.
Perhaps you could offer some "consultancy services" to study the brain drain for 30 days, for a fee of course, after you're gone. :p
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Now I know why the squeaker is so grim
In other news, my manager was just promoted. We've got a new bungee boss who is deferring to our absentee team lead and absorbing his lack of clue.
For our collective edification, can you elaborate on what you mean by "bungee boss"? I can imagine a few different definitions, but I'm not sure how you define it.
I'm jumping off a sinking ship. Manager at new company has verbally confirmed an offer is forthcoming.
Current job can't for the life of them figure out why all the best employees are leaving.
Potential "Epic FU Story (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/epic-fu-money-stories/)" ahead?
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When I switched employers in 2017, I made it a point to attempt to train my replacement. But that transition didn't happen well. I offered free help for the the first month after I left (new job was in building opposite to old job). No questions were asked. The following month, started getting questions. Offered two options:
1. Pay me directly per hour as a 1099
2. Hire my new employer for professional services, who'd send me in.
They wouldn't do #1 because they couldn't pass that cost to their D0D customer. They mulled #2, then gave up because "fees are too high". It took them over a year to fill my old seat. And my replacement disappears all the time due to Reserves duty.
Bumped into my old manager a year after I left, he said I was doing the job of 2 engineers. Came home, looked at what I was doing at my present employer, realized I was going above and beyond my role, parlayed that into a $25k instant-ish raise.
Then COVID struck. Many don't want to go in to the customer site. Those of us who do have become invaluable. Then add those who've left to switch to FinTech to work from home full time. So I'm doing the work of 1.5-2 humans. Have asked for a substantial raise, have been told it will happen because I carried extra burden last year, same for my team. (Employer is very generous, pays more than competitors, and doesn't have layers of money-sucking overhead management. Company owned by, run by, full of engineers and IT people.)
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@zolotiyeruki
Bungee Boss: https://dilbert.com/strip/1994-09-07
(https://assets.amuniversal.com/038843a09f85012f2fe600163e41dd5b)
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@zolotiyeruki
Bungee Boss: https://dilbert.com/strip/1994-09-07
(https://assets.amuniversal.com/038843a09f85012f2fe600163e41dd5b)
Exactly this.
I've been at this company 22 years and am on manager number 22. Most of them have been within the past fifteen years. This is only my second voluntary transfer. To get promoted, you have to have the same manager for at least two years back to back.
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My boss is leaving for a new job (promotion) in a few weeks. Another person in our department of 20-30 also just left for another organization (promotion I think, maybe lateral). I am planning on leaving by the end of the year. I work with a lot of contractors and their management is all worthless and that trickles down to the folks on the ground. I feel like most of my time is spent trying to get something out of them and then documenting how they failed to do their job - meanwhile picking up the critical tasks that they failed to do. A new contract starts in several months, but this will be the third contractor in my ~3 years and they just hire the same people from the old contract so nothing really changes. It's still the same broken culture that has an attitude of "well that's how we've always done it" even if it's wrong and contrary to written guidelines and regulations. I have zero confidence the new contractor will do much better - though at least they won't get paid for empty seats
I should have probably 7-10 trained people to do the task at hand but instead I've got 2 semi-trained people, 3 brand new ones, and one new manager over all of them who is just making things worse. Plus the contractor fired the most productive person for a BS reason. I'm actively working to hire her - partially because she does good work, and partially to jab a thumb in their eye for being a-holes. Even with a fully trained and fully manned staff that would only be enough to handle the new work, not fix all the problems that decades of outsourcing have caused.
The fired contractor still passes along unsolicited information to me from the current batch of contractors including how their management is bad-mouthing me behind my back. Really looking forward to buying a business and running that full-time.
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No kidding, blech. We have been eating out once/ week because of COVID (getting takeout)
I don’t follow this logic. What about Covid makes you eat out more often?
I’ve eaten out far less during Covid because it’s such a pain in the ass to disinfect (I reheat everything to 165). I am aware that there’s “no evidence” for food borne Covid spread, but I also don’t know what studies have been done to prove/disprove the hypothesis. Whenever I see that there’s “no evidence” for something I ask what evidence might be Availabe. For example, has someone innoculated food with Covid and fed it to 100 monkeys? No. Has someone done intense contact tracing of an unmasked symptomatic line cook to see if any of their customers has contracted Covid? Maybe? I haven’t seen that study. I’m willing to accept that it’s an unlikely avenue for transmission but also know that restaurant back of house is and has always been filthy so I don’t really trust those guys to take any precautions unless I’ve personally visited the kitchen
@Dee_ called it.
There's no evidence for COVID transmission through food, and if I were doing what you were doing, I wouldn't bother getting takeout either.
Essentially, primarily, we've done it to support our local restaurants.
We've done it because the kids have gotten bored with our food.
We've done it as a "treat" (for the kids, not us really) - where typically it would be 1-2x a month.
Honestly, it was a full year of working FT at home, never leaving the COUNTY (no vacations), in a 3 room house with 4 people and a dog (both kids doing zoom school). We needed something "different" to look forward to each week. Also, feeding 4 people 3-4 times a day and preparing that amount of food sucks DONKEY BALLS.
Now that the kids are back in school (mostly) full time, but we are still working from home, we are actually eating out a bit less (but still more than pre-COVID) because life without zoom school is less stressful. In addition to having more time to work at home in peace, the kids eat lunch at school, so the amount of food prep we have to do is also down.
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Just in case you're not familiar with it, the "AR" doesn't stand for "Assault Rifle." It stands for "ArmaLite Rifle"--Armalite is the company that originally developed it. Generally speaking, the term "assault rifle" only includes weapons capable of automatic fire or burst fire, and the AR-15 doesn't fall into that category.
I find the people who call this these semantics are generally the ones that are trying to change the subject from the most recent mass shooting by pointing out that someone else is "ignorant" of actual weapons classifications. Generally, people will call a weapon that was created and used for assault, an assault-weapon or an assault rifle. And it's not incorrect. But by changing the subject from something seriously fucked up (mass murder) to something so esoteric (do we know what the initials stand for), gun advocates succeed in changing the narrative. I also notice that Armalite has become the most well-known gun manufacturer ever since this tactic was developed. I'm sure they're very pleased that you are advertising their mass-killing machines.
And of course it is the individual states that regulate how someone can carry and own guns not (generally) the feds. In Calif open carry is illegal and gun ownership restricted. Other states are more lenient.
You may remember when open carry in CA became illegal -- and why. It's because the Black Panthers did exactly what the nutcases in Michigan did when they open-carried into a state capital. Panthers walked into Sacramento armed with long guns and it scared the bejesus out of all the white people. If we really want to get serious about gun control, I think all we have to do is give a bunch of black people guns and let them open-carry. White people will shit themselves.
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One of the best, most outspoken, and my favorite 2A spokesman is a man named Colion Noir. He was a prominent NRA spokesman for a while.
https://www.mrcolionnoir.com/
Pretty sure the gun community is happy to have any law abiding spokesman they can, especially if they are young and not white, thus widening the appeal of the community.
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I find the people who call this these semantics are generally the ones that are trying to change the subject from the most recent mass shooting by pointing out that someone else is "ignorant" of actual weapons classifications. Generally, people will call a weapon that was created and used for assault, an assault-weapon or an assault rifle. And it's not incorrect. But by changing the subject from something seriously fucked up (mass murder) to something so esoteric (do we know what the initials stand for), gun advocates succeed in changing the narrative. I also notice that Armalite has become the most well-known gun manufacturer ever since this tactic was developed. I'm sure they're very pleased that you are advertising their mass-killing machines.
I find that the people who intentionally obfuscate assault rifles and then yell “semantics” are intentionally blurring the lines between what a true assault rifle is, an automatic weapon which are highly regulated and largely illegal, and a common semi-automatic like an AR-15, because they want them outlawed. And outlawing them is easier if people think “assault rifle” = automatic weapon. Politicians and gun control advocates absolutely try and confuse the two to engender support for banning all of it.
It’s disingenuous and dishonest.
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I find the people who call this these semantics are generally the ones that are trying to change the subject from the most recent mass shooting by pointing out that someone else is "ignorant" of actual weapons classifications. Generally, people will call a weapon that was created and used for assault, an assault-weapon or an assault rifle. And it's not incorrect. But by changing the subject from something seriously fucked up (mass murder) to something so esoteric (do we know what the initials stand for), gun advocates succeed in changing the narrative. I also notice that Armalite has become the most well-known gun manufacturer ever since this tactic was developed. I'm sure they're very pleased that you are advertising their mass-killing machines.
I find that the people who intentionally obfuscate assault rifles and then yell “semantics” are intentionally blurring the lines between what a true assault rifle is, an automatic weapon which are highly regulated and largely illegal, and a common semi-automatic like an AR-15, because they want them outlawed. And outlawing them is easier if people think “assault rifle” = automatic weapon. Politicians and gun control advocates absolutely try and confuse the two to engender support for banning all of it.
It’s disingenuous and dishonest.
And then there's people like me who are pissed that there's gun control debate starting in the Overheard at Work thread. Take it to Off Topic please, where it belongs.
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No kidding, blech. We have been eating out once/ week because of COVID (getting takeout)
I don’t follow this logic. What about Covid makes you eat out more often?
I’ve eaten out far less during Covid because it’s such a pain in the ass to disinfect (I reheat everything to 165). I am aware that there’s “no evidence” for food borne Covid spread, but I also don’t know what studies have been done to prove/disprove the hypothesis. Whenever I see that there’s “no evidence” for something I ask what evidence might be Availabe. For example, has someone innoculated food with Covid and fed it to 100 monkeys? No. Has someone done intense contact tracing of an unmasked symptomatic line cook to see if any of their customers has contracted Covid? Maybe? I haven’t seen that study. I’m willing to accept that it’s an unlikely avenue for transmission but also know that restaurant back of house is and has always been filthy so I don’t really trust those guys to take any precautions unless I’ve personally visited the kitchen
That sound exhausting, and frankly anti-mustachian*/anti-math. We’ve been doing this for more than a year. If there were cases of people catching Covid from takeout food we’d have heard about it by now. You’re far more likely to get e.coli or similar than Covid from food
*anti-mustachian in the sense of expending time/effort to insure against things they have a microscopic chance of happening.
Says the guy who said he has been eating out once a week “because of Covid” but doesn’t answer why Covid makes him eat out more.
Ecoli is also a great reason to reheat your takeout food, so It’s just a win win. It too much trouble so I cook my own food as much as possible, which is far more mustachian from both a math and philosophical point of view
I also personally think it’s super mustachian to insure against things that are low-probability but high-cost. I have liability insurance in case I run someone over because I cannot afford that payout. I have fire insurance in case my home burns down because the price of rebuilding will seriously impact my savings. I microwave my food for 2 minutes and wear a mask because no amount of money will bring me back from the dead
Dragoncar - you are my hero. You have figured out that taking unnecessary risks with unknown consequences is dumb, and a huge percentage of our country seems incapable of doing this (but life is hard.... waaaaah... I don't want to make food for myself... waaah... you don't have any evidence, therefore I get to do whatever I feel... waaaaaaaah...).
Keep fighting the good fight.
And in case you were still interested, the risk of contracting COVID is literally 100% higher in Americans who go to restaurants. There have been no studies showing foodborne COVID transmission does (or does not) exist. There have been no contact tracing studies done to prove anything. We still don't even know if you can catch COVID from a door knob. The lack of clarity on transmission is depressing, but at least anyone who wants a vaccine and is > 16 y/o can get one now.
If you have questions about any evidence, reply to this post, and I'll chime in whenever I have a few minutes to share it.
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I find the people who call this these semantics are generally the ones that are trying to change the subject from the most recent mass shooting by pointing out that someone else is "ignorant" of actual weapons classifications. Generally, people will call a weapon that was created and used for assault, an assault-weapon or an assault rifle. And it's not incorrect. But by changing the subject from something seriously fucked up (mass murder) to something so esoteric (do we know what the initials stand for), gun advocates succeed in changing the narrative. I also notice that Armalite has become the most well-known gun manufacturer ever since this tactic was developed. I'm sure they're very pleased that you are advertising their mass-killing machines.
I find that the people who intentionally obfuscate assault rifles and then yell “semantics” are intentionally blurring the lines between what a true assault rifle is, an automatic weapon which are highly regulated and largely illegal, and a common semi-automatic like an AR-15, because they want them outlawed. And outlawing them is easier if people think “assault rifle” = automatic weapon. Politicians and gun control advocates absolutely try and confuse the two to engender support for banning all of it.
It’s disingenuous and dishonest.
I think you missed the point. Some people abhor the killing of other people, and you get upset when they don't invest more time in researching something irrelevant (like the difference between an assault rifle vs. Armalite vs. automatic weapon vs. who gives a shit). Guns shoot bullets that sometimes kill people and this irritates everyone. Half of people are irritated that guns are being fired at other people, and the other half are irritated the first half aren't calling the gun the "right" noun. You decide which half is being more unreasonable.
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I find the people who call this these semantics are generally the ones that are trying to change the subject from the most recent mass shooting by pointing out that someone else is "ignorant" of actual weapons classifications. Generally, people will call a weapon that was created and used for assault, an assault-weapon or an assault rifle. And it's not incorrect. But by changing the subject from something seriously fucked up (mass murder) to something so esoteric (do we know what the initials stand for), gun advocates succeed in changing the narrative. I also notice that Armalite has become the most well-known gun manufacturer ever since this tactic was developed. I'm sure they're very pleased that you are advertising their mass-killing machines.
I find that the people who intentionally obfuscate assault rifles and then yell “semantics” are intentionally blurring the lines between what a true assault rifle is, an automatic weapon which are highly regulated and largely illegal, and a common semi-automatic like an AR-15, because they want them outlawed. And outlawing them is easier if people think “assault rifle” = automatic weapon. Politicians and gun control advocates absolutely try and confuse the two to engender support for banning all of it.
It’s disingenuous and dishonest.
I think you missed the point. Some people abhor the killing of other people, and you get upset when they don't invest more time in researching something irrelevant (like the difference between an assault rifle vs. Armalite vs. automatic weapon vs. who gives a shit). Guns shoot bullets that sometimes kill people and this irritates everyone. Half of people are irritated that guns are being fired at other people, and the other half are irritated the first half aren't calling the gun the "right" noun. You decide which half is being more unreasonable.
Actually everyone is upset that guns are being fired at other people. It plays into your narrative to call one side heartless though so I understand why you say one side is irritated only about semantics, unfortunately it is incorrect. The question of what should be done about the issue is where opinions differ. Semantics are also important when you are proposing solutions and outlawing something that was previously legal. You have to draw the line somewhere and you need to be VERY specific about where you draw it. Personally, I believe we would be better off with gun education and inner city community investment than gun control but that's because these bans have been attempted before and have not impacted gun deaths. Looks good for optics though to get re-elected...
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I find the people who call this these semantics are generally the ones that are trying to change the subject from the most recent mass shooting by pointing out that someone else is "ignorant" of actual weapons classifications. Generally, people will call a weapon that was created and used for assault, an assault-weapon or an assault rifle. And it's not incorrect. But by changing the subject from something seriously fucked up (mass murder) to something so esoteric (do we know what the initials stand for), gun advocates succeed in changing the narrative. I also notice that Armalite has become the most well-known gun manufacturer ever since this tactic was developed. I'm sure they're very pleased that you are advertising their mass-killing machines.
I find that the people who intentionally obfuscate assault rifles and then yell “semantics” are intentionally blurring the lines between what a true assault rifle is, an automatic weapon which are highly regulated and largely illegal, and a common semi-automatic like an AR-15, because they want them outlawed. And outlawing them is easier if people think “assault rifle” = automatic weapon. Politicians and gun control advocates absolutely try and confuse the two to engender support for banning all of it.
It’s disingenuous and dishonest.
I think you missed the point. Some people abhor the killing of other people, and you get upset when they don't invest more time in researching something irrelevant (like the difference between an assault rifle vs. Armalite vs. automatic weapon vs. who gives a shit). Guns shoot bullets that sometimes kill people and this irritates everyone. Half of people are irritated that guns are being fired at other people, and the other half are irritated the first half aren't calling the gun the "right" noun. You decide which half is being more unreasonable.
Actually everyone is upset that guns are being fired at other people. It plays into your narrative to call one side heartless though so I understand why you say one side is irritated only about semantics, unfortunately it is incorrect. The question of what should be done about the issue is where opinions differ. Semantics are also important when you are proposing solutions and outlawing something that was previously legal. You have to draw the line somewhere and you need to be VERY specific about where you draw it. Personally, I believe we would be better off with gun education and inner city community investment than gun control but that's because these bans have been attempted before and have not impacted gun deaths. Looks good for optics though to get re-elected...
I'd settle for a mandatory loss of your CCL for failing to secure your weapon in public. In a neighborhood near me, in a single night, six different guns were stolen out of unlocked vehicles. Of course, all of the owners claim to be responsible gun owners...
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I'd settle for a mandatory loss of your CCL for failing to secure your weapon in public. In a neighborhood near me, in a single night, six different guns were stolen out of unlocked vehicles. Of course, all of the owners claim to be responsible gun owners...
I have a devious mind, to me that would be the perfect way to sell a gun illegally. You give me money, I will leave my car unlocked and you can "steal" it.
And to second Sibley, this is no longer overheard at work, and we have had gun control debates ad nauseum over on Off Topic.
I'm retired, so no good "overheard at work" tidbits any more, sorry not sorry, nyah nyah. ;-)
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I’ll see if I can get this back on track a bit. Follow up on the new guy that was complaining about being broke while spending all of his $2k/m side income as “fun money”. He told me yesterday that he is avoiding doing taxes as long as he can because he doesn’t want to see the number that he’s going to owe from getting taxable income assistance last year. Right before he ate out for lunch again.
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I'd settle for a mandatory loss of your CCL for failing to secure your weapon in public. In a neighborhood near me, in a single night, six different guns were stolen out of unlocked vehicles. Of course, all of the owners claim to be responsible gun owners...
I have a devious mind, to me that would be the perfect way to sell a gun illegally. You give me money, I will leave my car unlocked and you can "steal" it.
And to second Sibley, this is no longer overheard at work, and we have had gun control debates ad nauseum over on Off Topic.
I'm retired, so no good "overheard at work" tidbits any more, sorry not sorry, nyah nyah. ;-)
1. That is actually a good idea!
2. Sorry Sibley, and sorry to the rest of you. I saw an older post and responded. I won't engage here. And I'm not really interested in having the debate elsewhere either.
3. I recently retired too! So many people from work are STILL calling me to talk things over/gossip. It's as if they having nothing better to do!!! (sometimes I answer, sometimes I don't
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I suspect my coworker is going to make an unwise vehicle choice. She drives 60 miles per day, and is currently driving her fiancé's vehicle because her 2000 truck is very unreliable. She knows that she should prioritize gas mileage. She WANTS a Jeep Wrangler, or if not that, a truck. She's also 23, so my guess is the want is going to outweigh the should.
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Now I know why the squeaker is so grim
In other news, my manager was just promoted. We've got a new bungee boss who is deferring to our absentee team lead and absorbing his lack of clue.
I, however, have a job offer in a different division and my last day is in mid-May. It sucks to leave my crew but I cannot abide this level of dysfunctional incompetence.
@TheGrimSqueaker ,
Last day as in taking the new job offer or retiring for good?
Just a transfer. I came late to Mustachianism and want to kill my mortgage before retiring, and I'd like to check a few things off my bucket list first, so I'm not retiring yet.
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I suspect my coworker is going to make an unwise vehicle choice. She drives 60 miles per day, and is currently driving her fiancé's vehicle because her 2000 truck is very unreliable. She knows that she should prioritize gas mileage. She WANTS a Jeep Wrangler, or if not that, a truck. She's also 23, so my guess is the want is going to outweigh the should.
Well that's an easy one. Get the plug in hybrid Wrangler.
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I suspect my coworker is going to make an unwise vehicle choice. She drives 60 miles per day, and is currently driving her fiancé's vehicle because her 2000 truck is very unreliable. She knows that she should prioritize gas mileage. She WANTS a Jeep Wrangler, or if not that, a truck. She's also 23, so my guess is the want is going to outweigh the should.
Hell, I'm almost 40 and drive a Jeep 60 miles a day. Hence the reason I'm trying to find a vanpool to join.
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I suspect my coworker is going to make an unwise vehicle choice. She drives 60 miles per day, and is currently driving her fiancé's vehicle because her 2000 truck is very unreliable. She knows that she should prioritize gas mileage. She WANTS a Jeep Wrangler, or if not that, a truck. She's also 23, so my guess is the want is going to outweigh the should.
Well that's an easy one. Get the plug in hybrid Wrangler.
I will mention it to her.
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I suspect my coworker is going to make an unwise vehicle choice. She drives 60 miles per day, and is currently driving her fiancé's vehicle because her 2000 truck is very unreliable. She knows that she should prioritize gas mileage. She WANTS a Jeep Wrangler, or if not that, a truck. She's also 23, so my guess is the want is going to outweigh the should.
Well that's an easy one. Get the plug in hybrid Wrangler.
Looks like a $50k base price for one of those. The gas savings are likely to pale in comparison to the monster of a car payment. How much does she make?
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*sigh* Yesterday, a coworker showed up at work with a new (or very recent model year) Ford Ecosport Titanium. According to Ford's website, it starts at about $27k.
She used to drive an old, beat up Pontiac that was on its last legs, so I don't blame her for getting rid of it. However, she and her husband seem to have consistent money problems, he is underemployed, and I can think of a dozen vehicles options in 30 seconds that would have met their needs and been waaaaay cheaper. In fact, my coworker's husband is picking up what amounts to minimum wage work so they can make the car payment.
Today, we had a sudden rainstorm, and I hoofed it out to make sure my windows were closed. My car was fine, but my coworker's car's sunroof was open. I called over to her, and she was horrified that the inside of her new car was getting wet.
She's a great coworker, does her job really well, works hard, etc. But my heavens, I shake my head at her financial choices some days.
A few things I took away from that interaction today:
1) I enjoy the fact that, because my car is old, I don't have to worry about a scratch in my car's paint, or rain getting in through the window for a couple minutes.
2) I am glad that I've learned to do my own car repair and maintenance, so that I can keep driving my old jalopy. Sure, it needs more upkeep than a new car, but it's WAY cheaper than a car payment.
3) I'm glad that, between buying used cars and paying cash, we don't have a car payment. Sure, it's not mathematically optimal, but the peace of mind is awesome.
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No kidding, blech. We have been eating out once/ week because of COVID (getting takeout)
I don’t follow this logic. What about Covid makes you eat out more often?
I’ve eaten out far less during Covid because it’s such a pain in the ass to disinfect (I reheat everything to 165). I am aware that there’s “no evidence” for food borne Covid spread, but I also don’t know what studies have been done to prove/disprove the hypothesis. Whenever I see that there’s “no evidence” for something I ask what evidence might be Availabe. For example, has someone innoculated food with Covid and fed it to 100 monkeys? No. Has someone done intense contact tracing of an unmasked symptomatic line cook to see if any of their customers has contracted Covid? Maybe? I haven’t seen that study. I’m willing to accept that it’s an unlikely avenue for transmission but also know that restaurant back of house is and has always been filthy so I don’t really trust those guys to take any precautions unless I’ve personally visited the kitchen
You try to find out where people have infected themselves if you catch them positive. You find a lot of reasons, but food is basically never the reason. There are one or two (where a cook was having heavy symptoms and not wearing a mask so you can imagine what was in the food) and a few maybes, but generally you can say it is safer to eat food from outside than to go shopping and grabbing the cart without desinfecting it (and this is already a relativly low-risk thing) and yourself afterward.
Unless you are elderly or have significant other issues, the odds of dying of Covid are infinitesimal.
When does elderly start for you? Even 20 year olds have been around 0,2% death rate - and that is with the "old" virus, the newer mutations seem to be more dangerous.
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*sigh* Yesterday, a coworker showed up at work with a new (or very recent model year) Ford Ecosport Titanium. According to Ford's website, it starts at about $27k.
...
Because reasons, I'm in the market for a car again. My preferred car is something 2 or 3 years old coming off a lease with relatively low mileage and then I keep it for 8-10 years. Last purchase was a 2 year old Honda Accord with 25K miles. Its been a great car. The cheapest I've found in this category is listed over $23,000. That's nuts. Anyway, if your coworker got the base model and keeps it a long time, they may not do bad.
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*sigh* Yesterday, a coworker showed up at work with a new (or very recent model year) Ford Ecosport Titanium. According to Ford's website, it starts at about $27k.
...
Because reasons, I'm in the market for a car again. My preferred car is something 2 or 3 years old coming off a lease with relatively low mileage and then I keep it for 8-10 years. Last purchase was a 2 year old Honda Accord with 25K miles. Its been a great car. The cheapest I've found in this category is listed over $23,000. That's nuts. Anyway, if your coworker got the base model and keeps it a long time, they may not do bad.
Well, the base model starts at $20k. They got the Titanium, which starts around $27k.
I'm a fan of buying cars at around 100,000 miles. That's when a bunch of maintenance comes due (shocks, timing belt, fluids, etc) so there's a bump in ownership cost, so people tend to trade them in. I'm happy to do that maintenance myself in exchange for saving a bunch of money. :)
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*sigh* Yesterday, a coworker showed up at work with a new (or very recent model year) Ford Ecosport Titanium. According to Ford's website, it starts at about $27k.
...
Because reasons, I'm in the market for a car again. My preferred car is something 2 or 3 years old coming off a lease with relatively low mileage and then I keep it for 8-10 years. Last purchase was a 2 year old Honda Accord with 25K miles. Its been a great car. The cheapest I've found in this category is listed over $23,000. That's nuts. Anyway, if your coworker got the base model and keeps it a long time, they may not do bad.
Well, the base model starts at $20k. They got the Titanium, which starts around $27k.
I'm a fan of buying cars at around 100,000 miles. That's when a bunch of maintenance comes due (shocks, timing belt, fluids, etc) so there's a bump in ownership cost, so people tend to trade them in. I'm happy to do that maintenance myself in exchange for saving a bunch of money. :)
You can’t go by MSRPs with Fords. They tend to discount heavily, especially relatively unpopular models like the Ecosport. A quick glance at KBB suggests <$25k without trying too hard.
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*sigh* Yesterday, a coworker showed up at work with a new (or very recent model year) Ford Ecosport Titanium. According to Ford's website, it starts at about $27k.
...
Because reasons, I'm in the market for a car again. My preferred car is something 2 or 3 years old coming off a lease with relatively low mileage and then I keep it for 8-10 years. Last purchase was a 2 year old Honda Accord with 25K miles. Its been a great car. The cheapest I've found in this category is listed over $23,000. That's nuts. Anyway, if your coworker got the base model and keeps it a long time, they may not do bad.
Well, the base model starts at $20k. They got the Titanium, which starts around $27k.
I'm a fan of buying cars at around 100,000 miles. That's when a bunch of maintenance comes due (shocks, timing belt, fluids, etc) so there's a bump in ownership cost, so people tend to trade them in. I'm happy to do that maintenance myself in exchange for saving a bunch of money. :)
You can’t go by MSRPs with Fords. They tend to discount heavily, especially relatively unpopular models like the Ecosport. A quick glance at KBB suggests <$25k without trying too hard.
This is a valid point. Autotrader shows 45 brand new EcoSports with the Titanium trim level for under $20k. Those dealers might be stacking discounts in order to advertise those prices as bait, but still... I really hope nobody is paying $27k for a tarted up EcoSport.
The real issue is that buying an EcoSport, new, and in the highest trim level is an all around terrible decision. They consistently finish last or very near the bottom in comparisons with other vehicles in their class. They depreciate quite a lot too.
US News ranked them dead last in the sub compact CUV category and said:
"The 2021 Ford EcoSport doesn't compare favorably with most vehicles in the subcompact SUV class. It suffers from an underpowered base engine, a harsh ride, and limited advanced safety features, which is why it ranks near the back of the segment."
"Is the Ford EcoSport a Good SUV?
No, the 2021 EcoSport is not a good subcompact SUV. Though this Ford has easy maneuverability in tight spaces and abundant cargo room, its negatives far outweigh its positives. Driver visibility is poor due to thick roof pillars and a narrow rear window. Taller folks will find the rear seats very tight, and there aren't many standard or available active safety features. Additionally, this Ford delivers a bumpy ride over uneven pavement, and acceleration is slow."
All that in a tiny CUV with a tiny engine and they can't even get 30mpg highway. There are just so many better choices...
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There are “better choices” but a lot of those come with higher (real world) price tags. Let’s face it, pretty much any modern car is pretty good. Someone buying a less good but cheaper Ford over a “better” Honda or Toyota is not making a terrible decision IMO.
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This is reminding me, I used to have a coworker who totaled a car once every other year (or at least it seemed that way). It was baffling to me. She sort of accepted it as the way things inevitably were going to be, or just bad luck.
I've met much worse drivers. I think she was just bad at driving defensively, somehow.
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There are “better choices” but a lot of those come with higher (real world) price tags. Let’s face it, pretty much any modern car is pretty good. Someone buying a less good but cheaper Ford over a “better” Honda or Toyota is not making a terrible decision IMO.
Yeah, there aren't very many truly bad new vehicles (although Fiat and Alfa sure try). My point was that there are many better uses for that money. The EcoSport buyer has to be the type of person that doesn't research major purchases in the slightest. I'm not surprised at all to hear that zolotiyeruki's coworker that consistently makes poor financial choices also made a poor choice in transportation. People that make poor choices in one area of their lives often make poor choices in other areas too.
If a person has to buy new, and it has to be a sub compact CUV, the Mazda CX3 has very similar pricing, while looking better, having nicer materials, being more refined in nature and getting 10% better fuel economy. It's also got better crash safety scores than the EcoSport. The Korean models from Hyundai/Kia are again similar on pricing to the EcoSport, but offer a far superior warranty. And those are just the better options in that segment and price bracket.
If we loosen restrictions and allow used vehicles as well, a $20-25k budget buys a very nice Avalon hybrid that has more space, nicer appointments, higher quality, and trounces the EcoSport's fuel economy. If you're loyal to the Ford brand, you can get 1-3 year old Fusion hybrids and PHEVs with well under 30k miles for that price, and again have a nicer, safer, more efficient vehicle (I like my Fusion PHEV a lot).
Sometimes I'm just a little baffled when I see people make the choices that they do. They may not all be awful choices, but good grief. At least put in a little effort to try and get the big things right and avoid hamstringing yourself.
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Sometimes I'm just a little baffled when I see people make the choices that they do. They may not all be awful choices, but good grief. At least put in a little effort to try and get the big things right and avoid hamstringing yourself.
My stepfather ONLY buys Fords. Only.
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You try to find out where people have infected themselves if you catch them positive. You find a lot of reasons, but food is basically never the reason. There are one or two (where a cook was having heavy symptoms and not wearing a mask so you can imagine what was in the food) and a few maybes, but generally you can say it is safer to eat food from outside than to go shopping and grabbing the cart without desinfecting it (and this is already a relativly low-risk thing) and yourself afterward.
Ok I don’t want to crap up this thread with a Covid debate, especially since widespread vaccine availability is mooting most of it and I’m sure we have other threads for Covid which I really don’t want to join
But ill say that I understand hypothetically how we could detect/trace food borne transmission and because the US basically gave up on rigorous contract tracing early on I don’t think we ever collected enough data to disprove the hypothesis. Correct my if I’m wrong, meaning an actual scholarly article, and PM if necessary so as not to foam the thread
And it would have been super easy for someone to do this research too. Get a hundred monkeys and place active Covid on their meals. See if they contract it.* As far as I know, nobody did this. Again, correct me if I’m wrong. I’d legitimately love to see the study and wouldn’t be surprised with either result. I’m just disappointed that there was all this opportunity for basic research that wasn’t done (although I have scientist friends who assure me that data is coming someday, although they don’t specifically know who is analyzing it they feel confident someone somewhere is)
*note also that the respiratory Covid may not be the only form of infection. Early on there were reports of Covid shedding in feces, which could indicate a gastrointestinal infection, presumably not as life threatening, but I didn’t see much since early reports
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And it would have been super easy for someone to do this research too. Get a hundred monkeys and place active Covid on their meals. See if they contract it.* As far as I know, nobody did this. Again, correct me if I’m wrong. I’d legitimately love to see the study and wouldn’t be surprised with either result. I’m just disappointed that there was all this opportunity for basic research that wasn’t done (although I have scientist friends who assure me that data is coming someday, although they don’t specifically know who is analyzing it they feel confident someone somewhere is)
There's two very good reasons nobody did this - because it would have been fucking expensive, and it wouldn't have proven anything. Proving a negative is hard, e.g. COVID is NOT spread by contact transmission, cats are NOT the primary cause of the decline in songbird population, polymer networks with extensive long-range intermolecular interactions are NOT described by a de Gennes reptation or Rouse model. You get the picture. The reason it's hard is that there's usually a few counterexamples. Is COVID spread by contact? We could probably find a few cases where it possibly happened, sure.
It's much easier to accumulate positive examples until your colleagues scoff at a paper with a negative example. Sure, here's a case of possible foodborne COVID transmission. But there's
two hundred thousand cases over here that were most likely respiratory transmission. Your single case is probably an anomaly or a lazy contact tracer. Is the single negative example sometimes a thread that unravels the established theories of an entire subfield? Sure, it happens sometimes. But not all the time.
So is COVID spread via physical contact? Unlikely. We don't say no, because scientists are cautious about making provably false statements. But it's much more likely it spreads via respiratory droplets,
"But maybe if we'd done the monkey experiment we would have had evidence! We just don't know!"
I don't really do in vivo studies so this is just speculation, but let's think this through. We acquire (say) 1,000 rhesus monkeys at a prohibitive cost of 5 million dollars, and hire a bunch of cheap postdocs and grad students to run the study. Let's say the facilities and staff are free, though they most certainly would not be. You feed them COVID laced mangoes.
Two possible outcomes:
1. They don't get COVID. Maybe we didn't give them enough. Maybe we waited too long between dosing and ingestion and the virus died. Maybe eating mangoes and COVID simultaneously reduces the potency of the virus. Maybe monkeys are less susceptible to oral COVID infection than humans are.
2. They get COVID. Maybe monkeys are more susceptible to COVID infection via the oral route than humans are. Maybe COVID manages to reproduce on room temperature mangoes but not room temperature bread. Maybe we gave them more COVID than a human would eat, even if the symptomatic line cook full on sneezed onto their food.
Meanwhile, while you're frantically trying to get your funding agency to give you more money for the followup experiments, the theory that "COVID is spread largely by people breathing in droplets breathed out infected people" explains most of the cases, and getting people to wear masks so they stop breathing air from all over the room and just the little pocket in front of them seems to reduce infection rates.
tl;dr Microwave your food if it makes you feel better. Just wear your mask.
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"I don't want to continue this debate about covid in a thread that has nothing to do with covid, but I'm going to do it anyway, because I have to have the last word."
Y'all just let it go.
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"I don't want to continue this debate about covid in a thread that has nothing to do with covid, but I'm going to do it anyway, because I have to have the last word."
Y'all just let it go.
I’m just letting people know I won’t respond here further on that topic - in fact Dee_ has had the last public word and I’m happy to listen and respond to all opinions through PM. Thus, I’m not stopping the conversation, just suggesting we move it elsewhere because there was already a complaint about off topic discussion. Seems only polite to me, and I suggest this is how all such off topic issues are handled here.
I didn’t originally realize what thread this was when I responded to the first post about Covid
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No kidding, blech. We have been eating out once/ week because of COVID (getting takeout)
I don’t follow this logic. What about Covid makes you eat out more often?
I’ve eaten out far less during Covid because it’s such a pain in the ass to disinfect (I reheat everything to 165). I am aware that there’s “no evidence” for food borne Covid spread, but I also don’t know what studies have been done to prove/disprove the hypothesis. Whenever I see that there’s “no evidence” for something I ask what evidence might be Availabe. For example, has someone innoculated food with Covid and fed it to 100 monkeys? No. Has someone done intense contact tracing of an unmasked symptomatic line cook to see if any of their customers has contracted Covid? Maybe? I haven’t seen that study. I’m willing to accept that it’s an unlikely avenue for transmission but also know that restaurant back of house is and has always been filthy so I don’t really trust those guys to take any precautions unless I’ve personally visited the kitchen
You know what the funny thing is? My immune system is compromised. I get sick all the time. Everything makes me sick, going to parties, meeting kids, going to work, taking public transit, visiting dinner parties.
I know what restaurant kitchens often look like. But the one place where I've never contracted food poisoning is a restaurant, take-out or dine-in. I've given myself food poisoning, other people have given me food poisoning with their home-cooking, but somehow I've either been lucky or restaurant chefs are more aware of hygiene than people would think.
I have no idea about how Covid is contracted so I'm definitely not going to discuss that. I don't reheat my restaurant food but if you feel that's something you need to do, please do it. Better safe than sorry.
I share your concern about gastro-intestinal Covid. A family member stared having gastro symptoms in late Feb/early March 2020 and turned out to have Covid. It wasn't until 10 days later when they were hospitalised that they found out about the Covid (because of a routine test) because they were only having classic stomach bug symptoms and not lung symptoms. By then my family member already had symptomless severe pneumonia in both lungs. Coughing only started another week later right before death. Another family member that helped washing sheets and clothing when my sick relative had accidents got very sick with Covid too. It's impossible to prove how they got infected but my sick family member was not coughing at that point.
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I know what restaurant kitchens often look like. But the one place where I've never contracted food poisoning is a restaurant, take-out or dine-in.
Guess you've never eaten the chili at wendys (literally gave me food poisoning thrice before I stopped going there -- the final time I was admitted to the hospital for fluids. I was young and stupid and would eat wendy's on the way home from WORK) Never given myself food poisoning and I'm usually a "leave it out on the counter all day" kinda guy. I tend to overcook my food though, so don't ask me to make you a medium rare hamburder without signing a waiver
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I know what restaurant kitchens often look like. But the one place where I've never contracted food poisoning is a restaurant, take-out or dine-in.
Guess you've never eaten the chili at wendys (literally gave me food poisoning thrice before I stopped going there -- the final time I was admitted to the hospital for fluids. I was young and stupid and would eat wendy's on the way home from WORK) Never given myself food poisoning and I'm usually a "leave it out on the counter all day" kinda guy. I tend to overcook my food though, so don't ask me to make you a medium rare hamburder without signing a waiver
We don't have Wendy's in my country, so maybe that's why! And I'm careful with the type of food I order. I'm not a big meat eater but I'd maybe order a medium rare steak at a fancy restaurant, but when I'm at an outdoors music festival I'll stick to the French fries and use a hand sanitizer before I eat and after I've touched basically anything. Funny, when I'm abroad and I'm not sure what I can eat and what I can't, I tend to stick to American restaurant chains like Subway and the big yellow M. They have pretty strict hygiene standards and their standards are the same around the world, and both have open kitchens so you can see what's going on. Apparantly Wendy's isn't like that?
The story why we don't have Wendy's in the EU is actually an epic FU money kind of story: https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation/wendys-locations-europe-netherlands-goes-restaurant The guy could have accepted a ton of cash but he decided he'd rather have his restaurant.
I remember being in a small town in a central European country on a summer day and the temperature was over 40C. I wanted to grab lunch but properly stored food was nowhere to be found - I'm not going to eat a pre-prepared sandwich from an uncooled display at a bakery with an indoors temperature of over 30C. I don't think I've ever been happier to see a big yellow M in the distance. I'd much rather eat at the local bakery but I'm not going to risk it under these circumstances. I've only ended up in hospital with food poisoning once (salmonella) and fortunately I didn't cook that dinner! But I think I gave myself food poisoning twice before I figured out my freezer wasn't working properly anymore.
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The story why we don't have Wendy's in the EU is actually an epic FU money kind of story: https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation/wendys-locations-europe-netherlands-goes-restaurant The guy could have accepted a ton of cash but he decided he'd rather have his restaurant.
That's interesting! I remember going to Wendy's in Cork, Ireland. It was the first fast food restaurant I'd even been to, so it must have been the mid-'70s. I remember McDonald's opening in Dublin in May 1977, and the lines were out the door for months. Wendy's had been around for a while at that point, but the Cork city location was the only one, as far as I know.
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Funny, when I'm abroad and I'm not sure what I can eat and what I can't, I tend to stick to American restaurant chains like Subway and the big yellow M.
FWIW I got the worst ever food poisoning from Subway. Had to go to a after hours doc, was folded over in pain. I was on the verge of calling an ambulance to get to ER. Never ever am I having subway meatballs again. The fuckers must have been sitting in the warmer all week festering. Perfect temperature for bacteria to grow.
Sorry to hear you're missing out on awesome international cuisine.
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Funny, when I'm abroad and I'm not sure what I can eat and what I can't, I tend to stick to American restaurant chains like Subway and the big yellow M.
FWIW I got the worst ever food poisoning from Subway. Had to go to a after hours doc, was folded over in pain. I was on the verge of calling an ambulance to get to ER. Never ever am I having subway meatballs again. The fuckers must have been sitting in the warmer all week festering. Perfect temperature for bacteria to grow.
Sorry to hear you're missing out on awesome international cuisine.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. I know what that feels like :( Don't they normally have signs on every ingredient that shows when it was put in the sandwich bar and when it's supposed to be tossed out? In here they also make a point of making the staff wear gloves and showing they get discarded right in front of the customer? That's what I like about them. I'm not a very massive fan of the food itself. If it wasn't for the rigid safety procedures I wouldn't visit them.
I am naturally a fairly adventurous eater, and I really do try to eat local foods as much as possible, but it very much depends on the country and the season. In the UK and Scandinavia it's much less common to leave foods at room temperature in summer than in some places in Central Europe, for example, so I feel much more comfortable getting lunch from a small independent business.
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I'm so sorry that happened to you. I know what that feels like :( Don't they normally have signs on every ingredient that shows when it was put in the sandwich bar and when it's supposed to be tossed out?
I am convinced this problem owes a lot to our crappy franchise arrangements. Franchises like McDonald’s and subway set standards like that. But there are a lot of flailing locations that are basically run by the local owner who either directly works there or micromanaged his staff. And he has a personal profit motive to save every penny (corporations have profit motive but they don’t see you taking an extra packet of sauce as taking food out of their kids mouths). I’ve heard stories of owners just changing the expiration dates, for example, so as not to throw out product. I’ve personally seen the intense penny pinching with napkin counting. This is far more likely to happen at a smaller location where the owner has only one franchise. The larger more visible locations are often corporate run (eg airport international). Not every chain is a franchise either. I tend to like corporate own location better as they better recognize the liabilities involved in food safety (which is why they made those policies to begin with). If there are a lot of impromptu signs around the store, it makes me very wary (2 napkin limit, one sauce per 6 nuggets, one refill per visit, etc) because that level of penny pinching inevitably means cut corners on food safety
Now if your location is busy, you probably won’t see an issue with expired product because it’s constantly getting used up. Unless it’s something that people don’t order often (eg chili) that sits there all day and is supposed to get changed out but for some reason isn’t
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I'm so sorry that happened to you. I know what that feels like :( Don't they normally have signs on every ingredient that shows when it was put in the sandwich bar and when it's supposed to be tossed out?
I am convinced this problem owes a lot to our crappy franchise arrangements. Franchises like McDonald’s and subway set standards like that. But there are a lot of flailing locations that are basically run by the local owner who either directly works there or micromanaged his staff. And he has a personal profit motive to save every penny (corporations have profit motive but they don’t see you taking an extra packet of sauce as taking food out of their kids mouths). I’ve heard stories of owners just changing the expiration dates, for example, so as not to throw out product. I’ve personally seen the intense penny pinching with napkin counting. This is far more likely to happen at a smaller location where the owner has only one franchise. The larger more visible locations are often corporate run (eg airport international). Not every chain is a franchise either. I tend to like corporate own location better as they better recognize the liabilities involved in food safety (which is why they made those policies to begin with). If there are a lot of impromptu signs around the store, it makes me very wary (2 napkin limit, one sauce per 6 nuggets, one refill per visit, etc) because that level of penny pinching inevitably means cut corners on food safety
Now if your location is busy, you probably won’t see an issue with expired product because it’s constantly getting used up. Unless it’s something that people don’t order often (eg chili) that sits there all day and is supposed to get changed out but for some reason isn’t
Subway is also one of the worst franchises for profit margins. There's not a lot of space between individual locations and most people need two to three locations and to be an owner/operator to earn enough of a profit to live on. There's more incentive to cut corners in an operation like that, which is why so many ingredients are consistently unavailable, why the vegetables tend to look wilted and awful, and why the "tuna salad" is mostly mayonnaise.
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I'm so sorry that happened to you. I know what that feels like :( Don't they normally have signs on every ingredient that shows when it was put in the sandwich bar and when it's supposed to be tossed out?
I am convinced this problem owes a lot to our crappy franchise arrangements. Franchises like McDonald’s and subway set standards like that. But there are a lot of flailing locations that are basically run by the local owner who either directly works there or micromanaged his staff. And he has a personal profit motive to save every penny (corporations have profit motive but they don’t see you taking an extra packet of sauce as taking food out of their kids mouths). I’ve heard stories of owners just changing the expiration dates, for example, so as not to throw out product. I’ve personally seen the intense penny pinching with napkin counting. This is far more likely to happen at a smaller location where the owner has only one franchise. The larger more visible locations are often corporate run (eg airport international). Not every chain is a franchise either. I tend to like corporate own location better as they better recognize the liabilities involved in food safety (which is why they made those policies to begin with). If there are a lot of impromptu signs around the store, it makes me very wary (2 napkin limit, one sauce per 6 nuggets, one refill per visit, etc) because that level of penny pinching inevitably means cut corners on food safety
Now if your location is busy, you probably won’t see an issue with expired product because it’s constantly getting used up. Unless it’s something that people don’t order often (eg chili) that sits there all day and is supposed to get changed out but for some reason isn’t
I agree on you being wary of locations penny-pinching. My memory of one Subway in particular was that they were only including one napkin with the order - I asked for more. And with that restaurant being so common that was also the last time I went to that location. As you alluded to, if they are cutting corners one the things you can see, where might they be cutting where you cannot see?
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I agree on you being wary of locations penny-pinching. My memory of one Subway in particular was that they were only including one napkin with the order - I asked for more. And with that restaurant being so common that was also the last time I went to that location. As you alluded to, if they are cutting corners one the things you can see, where might they be cutting where you cannot see?
My supply of (free) napkins/tissues in car and my coats comes from restaurants that put too many napkins on the table. Giving one napkin seems like good business sense... as long as they provide more if you need them.
But Subway... first, yuck. Second, wayyyyyyyy too many decisions to make there. Can't do it.
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Funny, when I'm abroad and I'm not sure what I can eat and what I can't, I tend to stick to American restaurant chains like Subway and the big yellow M.
FWIW I got the worst ever food poisoning from Subway. Had to go to a after hours doc, was folded over in pain. I was on the verge of calling an ambulance to get to ER. Never ever am I having subway meatballs again. The fuckers must have been sitting in the warmer all week festering. Perfect temperature for bacteria to grow.
Sorry to hear you're missing out on awesome international cuisine.
My husband’s Subway food poisoning ruined our camping trip last summer. (He grabbed Subway for lunch the day before we left. Symptoms kicked in after we set up camp.) I don’t normally eat fast food, but that pretty much cemented my decision to avoid it.
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Funny, when I'm abroad and I'm not sure what I can eat and what I can't, I tend to stick to American restaurant chains like Subway and the big yellow M.
FWIW I got the worst ever food poisoning from Subway. Had to go to a after hours doc, was folded over in pain. I was on the verge of calling an ambulance to get to ER. Never ever am I having subway meatballs again. The fuckers must have been sitting in the warmer all week festering. Perfect temperature for bacteria to grow.
Sorry to hear you're missing out on awesome international cuisine.
My husband’s Subway food poisoning ruined our camping trip last summer. (He grabbed Subway for lunch the day before we left. Symptoms kicked in after we set up camp.) I don’t normally eat fast food, but that pretty much cemented my decision to avoid it.
Food poisoning is s strange thing. Sometimes it can break out several days after the bad food - even though I never understood how that is possible. What I want to say: I would give it no more than a 50:50 chance it was actually the subway food. Maybe even while setting up the camp your husband gut some dirt in the mouth with the offending bacteria. Easy if the ground is not wet.
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Funny, when I'm abroad and I'm not sure what I can eat and what I can't, I tend to stick to American restaurant chains like Subway and the big yellow M.
FWIW I got the worst ever food poisoning from Subway. Had to go to a after hours doc, was folded over in pain. I was on the verge of calling an ambulance to get to ER. Never ever am I having subway meatballs again. The fuckers must have been sitting in the warmer all week festering. Perfect temperature for bacteria to grow.
Sorry to hear you're missing out on awesome international cuisine.
My husband’s Subway food poisoning ruined our camping trip last summer. (He grabbed Subway for lunch the day before we left. Symptoms kicked in after we set up camp.) I don’t normally eat fast food, but that pretty much cemented my decision to avoid it.
Food poisoning is s strange thing. Sometimes it can break out several days after the bad food - even though I never understood how that is possible. What I want to say: I would give it no more than a 50:50 chance it was actually the subway food. Maybe even while setting up the camp your husband gut some dirt in the mouth with the offending bacteria. Easy if the ground is not wet.
Sometimes that's how long it takes the pathogenic bacteria to reach a critical mass in the gut. But 24 hours isn't an unusually long incubation time.
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Funny, when I'm abroad and I'm not sure what I can eat and what I can't, I tend to stick to American restaurant chains like Subway and the big yellow M.
FWIW I got the worst ever food poisoning from Subway. Had to go to a after hours doc, was folded over in pain. I was on the verge of calling an ambulance to get to ER. Never ever am I having subway meatballs again. The fuckers must have been sitting in the warmer all week festering. Perfect temperature for bacteria to grow.
Sorry to hear you're missing out on awesome international cuisine.
My husband’s Subway food poisoning ruined our camping trip last summer. (He grabbed Subway for lunch the day before we left. Symptoms kicked in after we set up camp.) I don’t normally eat fast food, but that pretty much cemented my decision to avoid it.
Food poisoning is s strange thing. Sometimes it can break out several days after the bad food - even though I never understood how that is possible. What I want to say: I would give it no more than a 50:50 chance it was actually the subway food. Maybe even while setting up the camp your husband gut some dirt in the mouth with the offending bacteria. Easy if the ground is not wet.
Sometimes that's how long it takes the pathogenic bacteria to reach a critical mass in the gut. But 24 hours isn't an unusually long incubation time.
Yes, but the point is that you can't be sure by far that it was the subway food (or any other single meal for several days before).
It's a reasonable guess, but still just an educated guess.
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Funny, when I'm abroad and I'm not sure what I can eat and what I can't, I tend to stick to American restaurant chains like Subway and the big yellow M.
FWIW I got the worst ever food poisoning from Subway. Had to go to a after hours doc, was folded over in pain. I was on the verge of calling an ambulance to get to ER. Never ever am I having subway meatballs again. The fuckers must have been sitting in the warmer all week festering. Perfect temperature for bacteria to grow.
Sorry to hear you're missing out on awesome international cuisine.
My husband’s Subway food poisoning ruined our camping trip last summer. (He grabbed Subway for lunch the day before we left. Symptoms kicked in after we set up camp.) I don’t normally eat fast food, but that pretty much cemented my decision to avoid it.
Food poisoning is s strange thing. Sometimes it can break out several days after the bad food - even though I never understood how that is possible. What I want to say: I would give it no more than a 50:50 chance it was actually the subway food. Maybe even while setting up the camp your husband gut some dirt in the mouth with the offending bacteria. Easy if the ground is not wet.
Sometimes that's how long it takes the pathogenic bacteria to reach a critical mass in the gut. But 24 hours isn't an unusually long incubation time.
Yes, but the point is that you can't be sure by far that it was the subway food (or any other single meal for several days before).
It's a reasonable guess, but still just an educated guess.
True story.
I've been to various parts of the globe, including active war zones and parts of Asia that aren't known for their food hygiene. I eat local pretty much everywhere I go.
Two places that have bad enough food to make me incredibly sick. The first was poorly cooked unidentified meat from an Iraqi local. The second case was bar food in London.
Be careful with that British food.
Don't worry about that Thai street food though. Or the interesting menu choices in a Chinese Seafood restaurant. Sea Cucumber and Duck tongue are quite tasty if you can get past the texture.
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Funny, when I'm abroad and I'm not sure what I can eat and what I can't, I tend to stick to American restaurant chains like Subway and the big yellow M.
FWIW I got the worst ever food poisoning from Subway. Had to go to a after hours doc, was folded over in pain. I was on the verge of calling an ambulance to get to ER. Never ever am I having subway meatballs again. The fuckers must have been sitting in the warmer all week festering. Perfect temperature for bacteria to grow.
Sorry to hear you're missing out on awesome international cuisine.
My husband’s Subway food poisoning ruined our camping trip last summer. (He grabbed Subway for lunch the day before we left. Symptoms kicked in after we set up camp.) I don’t normally eat fast food, but that pretty much cemented my decision to avoid it.
Food poisoning is s strange thing. Sometimes it can break out several days after the bad food - even though I never understood how that is possible. What I want to say: I would give it no more than a 50:50 chance it was actually the subway food. Maybe even while setting up the camp your husband gut some dirt in the mouth with the offending bacteria. Easy if the ground is not wet.
Sometimes that's how long it takes the pathogenic bacteria to reach a critical mass in the gut. But 24 hours isn't an unusually long incubation time.
Yes, but the point is that you can't be sure by far that it was the subway food (or any other single meal for several days before).
It's a reasonable guess, but still just an educated guess.
True story.
I've been to various parts of the globe, including active war zones and parts of Asia that aren't known for their food hygiene. I eat local pretty much everywhere I go.
Two places that have bad enough food to make me incredibly sick. The first was poorly cooked unidentified meat from an Iraqi local. The second case was bar food in London.
Be careful with that British food.
Don't worry about that Thai street food though. Or the interesting menu choices in a Chinese Seafood restaurant. Sea Cucumber and Duck tongue are quite tasty if you can get past the texture.
I traveled 6 months in Asia and the only time I got a food poisoning was in Vietnam when I ate at a tourist restaurant that was full of westerners. In China, I went to all kind of local restaurant were I only had a basic idea of the menu due to an app. I always choose buy places with locals.
The first time I got a food poisoning was in Switzerland, the night before a wedding with a four or five course menu. I look like a ghost in the pictures as I am even more pale then usual.
I really like food so I try to avoid american fast food restaurants. Part of the experience is to eat good local food.
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"Well we are both splitting the car payment, so my payment is the same for my Jetta, but I get a new BMW M-series"
"She NEEDS a fancy car to impress her clients, boss, and co-workers if she wants to move up the ladder"
"Her boss was poor only 5 years ago, we went to their wedding, it was probably all in only $20k"
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"Well we are both splitting the car payment, so my payment is the same for my Jetta, but I get a new BMW M-series"
"She NEEDS a fancy car to impress her clients, boss, and co-workers if she wants to move up the ladder"
"Her boss was poor only 5 years ago, we went to their wedding, it was probably all in only $20k"
Guess we must be in abject poverty, since ours was less than half that. What on earth are they talking about?! 20k is a lot for a wedding.
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"Well we are both splitting the car payment, so my payment is the same for my Jetta, but I get a new BMW M-series"
"She NEEDS a fancy car to impress her clients, boss, and co-workers if she wants to move up the ladder"
"Her boss was poor only 5 years ago, we went to their wedding, it was probably all in only $20k"
Guess we must be in abject poverty, since ours was less than half that. What on earth are they talking about?! 20k is a lot for a wedding.
***Adventine side-eyes her $200 civil wedding and silicone wedding rings (16 for $26 total)***
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How do you even know how much a wedding costs?
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How do you even know how much a wedding costs?
I wonder this too!
I've been to one wedding that clearly cost a lot--e.g. there were many large and beautiful fresh flower arrangements--but I couldn't begin to put a price tag on it. And never mind knowing what was a gift, what was DIY, etc.
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People in the wedding industry can make pretty good estimates on prices. At least to the scale of costs.
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Or some relative or friend at the wedding mentioned it or the boss herself.
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How do you even know how much a wedding costs?
Catering is going to cost at least $15 per plate and can be multiples of that.
Renting a venue usually starts at $500 and can easily be thousands.
Photographer/Videographer will be $1,000+ in most cases - especially if it's multiple people.
Flowers, clothing, rings, etc.
A wedding with 50-100+ people with nice food and a nice venue is probably going to be in the tens of thousands unless it's obvious all the food was homemade and it's held in a free/cheap venue (backyard of friend/family member, etc.).
Our wedding in a courthouse was a almost nothing (I had a suit, friend made my wife's dress) except gold wedding bands that were around $1,000 (gold was much cheaper back then). The "reception" afterwards was maybe a few hundred more for lunch in a restaurant with a small group of family and friends.
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How do you even know how much a wedding costs?
Catering is going to cost at least $15 per plate and can be multiples of that.
Renting a venue usually starts at $500 and can easily be thousands.
Photographer/Videographer will be $1,000+ in most cases - especially if it's multiple people.
Flowers, clothing, rings, etc.
A wedding with 50-100+ people with nice food and a nice venue is probably going to be in the tens of thousands unless it's obvious all the food was homemade and it's held in a free/cheap venue (backyard of friend/family member, etc.).
Our wedding in a courthouse was a almost nothing (I had a suit, friend made my wife's dress) except gold wedding bands that were around $1,000 (gold was much cheaper back then). The "reception" afterwards was maybe a few hundred more for lunch in a restaurant with a small group of family and friends.
Our wedding budget was $50. That was for everything. License, invitations, postage, everything. Not because we were cheap but simply because we were poor. $50 was a lot of money to us at the time. We held it in our apartment because that was already rented. We told people that if they wanted something to eat or drink at the reception it would be wise to bring it. Rings were gifts from friends because there was no money for rings.
People had such a good time that some folks stayed for 3 days.
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I work with a guy who lives about an hour from work, so his total daily commute is north of 2 hours. He also comes into the office every Saturday. On top of that, he drives like the biggest Ford F150 you can get (think King Ranch size). He said his monthly gas expense is over $1,000. It's a diesel though, so getting "good" gas mileage and longevity! He's a nice guy and smart (has a P.E. designation), but that's about as anti-mustachian as it gets!
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I work with a guy who lives about an hour from work, so his total daily commute is north of 2 hours. He also comes into the office every Saturday. On top of that, he drives like the biggest Ford F150 you can get (think King Ranch size). He said his monthly gas expense is over $1,000. It's a diesel though, so getting "good" gas mileage and longevity! He's a nice guy and smart (has a P.E. designation), but that's about as anti-mustachian as it gets!
Canyonero?
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Can you name the truck that's 4 wheel drive, smells like a steak and seats 45?
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I work with a guy who lives about an hour from work, so his total daily commute is north of 2 hours. He also comes into the office every Saturday. On top of that, he drives like the biggest Ford F150 you can get (think King Ranch size). He said his monthly gas expense is over $1,000. It's a diesel though, so getting "good" gas mileage and longevity! He's a nice guy and smart (has a P.E. designation), but that's about as anti-mustachian as it gets!
Pretty common behavior in Houston. I worked with a guy like that. His giant Kind Ranch wouldn't fit in the company provided parking garage, so he leased an XL sized parking spot 4 blocks away for $130/month.
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I work with a guy who lives about an hour from work, so his total daily commute is north of 2 hours. He also comes into the office every Saturday. On top of that, he drives like the biggest Ford F150 you can get (think King Ranch size). He said his monthly gas expense is over $1,000. It's a diesel though, so getting "good" gas mileage and longevity! He's a nice guy and smart (has a P.E. designation), but that's about as anti-mustachian as it gets!
Pretty common behavior in Houston. I worked with a guy like that. His giant Kind Ranch wouldn't fit in the company provided parking garage, so he leased an XL sized parking spot 4 blocks away for $130/month.
LOLOLOL!
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I work with a guy who lives about an hour from work, so his total daily commute is north of 2 hours. He also comes into the office every Saturday. On top of that, he drives like the biggest Ford F150 you can get (think King Ranch size). He said his monthly gas expense is over $1,000. It's a diesel though, so getting "good" gas mileage and longevity! He's a nice guy and smart (has a P.E. designation), but that's about as anti-mustachian as it gets!
Canyonero?
Top of the line in utility sports, unexplained fires are a matter for the courts!
Canyonero! Canyonero! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI_Jl5WFQkA)
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My plant manager recently traded in his truck (a 2018 Ford F-150 Raptor) for a newer, more expensive truck. Unsure what the make/model is, I just know that it apparently cost a whopping $90,000.
He was in the break room showing off a video of the retractable driver's side step he had installed for an extra $2k. You press a button and it swings out, then you press the button again and it folds back into the undercarriage. I pointed out that I don't need a step to get into my 2010 Suzuki Kizashi, because it only sits about 5 inches off the ground. I can only imagine his frustration when next winter hits and his fancy retractable step freezes in place.
This same manager a few days later was talking to someone about one of his favorite fast food chains (actually it's a gas station chain called Sheetz which is very big here in PA, it's hard to explain the hype but they do have excellent food). "I love their food, but it's just so gosh darn expensive!" I remarked that if he bought a nice used Honda Civic instead of a $90k truck, he could afford to eat there as often as he'd like.
I'm sure he makes at least $150k a year, so he can surely afford to live a ridiculous spendypants lifestyle, but damn, if I made what he makes I could be retired in about 5 years.
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Sheetz is the only place my mother has been known to throw out freshly purchased food. It was a few years ago, but if IIRC, the hot dogs were 3/$1, so she didn’t lose much.
So my family always jokes about getting “the Sheetz” and haven’t been back. They actually have some edible food?
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I was at a job site yesterday and was on the roof of a building with a half dozen guys. 3 of those guys have raptor trucks - they were all comparing notes on horsepower because apparently none of them were stock. The guy with the biggest stick had 750HP, which was impressive to all.
Then the conversation turned to a ~$400,000 truck at a local showroom. Didn’t catch the make / model but everyone except me seemed to know the exact one.
And there I was getting into my Prius when we all left. Lol oh well, I’m sure all those guys make well into the Six figure range, $500k+ So more power to them (literally).
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Sheetz is the only place my mother has been known to throw out freshly purchased food. It was a few years ago, but if IIRC, the hot dogs were 3/$1, so she didn’t lose much.
So my family always jokes about getting “the Sheetz” and haven’t been back. They actually have some edible food?
I've never had a bad experience with Sheetz food. In general I would consider it superior in quality to most fast food (which isn't saying much, but you can't reasonably expect much more from gas station fare).
What probably earned them their popularity back in the early 2000s was that they were one of the first places to offer truly customizable menu options. Even back in like 2005 you could walk into a Sheetz, go up to a touchscreen kiosk and order subs, burgers, sandwiches, etc designed to your exact specifications. Even now that sort of thing isn't super common. Sure you can go to a fast food chain and specify things that you want or don't want on your order, but you're still just editing a pre-designed menu item. With sheetz, you can build your food the way you want it from the ground up.
As an example, sometimes after my morning workout I'll pick up a breakfast quesarito with bacon, sausage, eggs, cheddar cheese, and hash browns in it. The damn thing is a foot long and thicker than my forearm. It's about 1100 calories and 60g or so of protein, for about $6. Not bad at all by fast food standards.
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I’m sure all those guys make well into the Six figure range, $500k+ So more power to them (literally).
Indeed, I'm sure they could all be retired if they valued their time over their horsepower.
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*sigh* Our lovely admin-type person stopped by my office and we discussed weekend events. Her daughter is getting married next year, and so they're working on the arrangements. The venues in our area are apparently charging $10,000 just for the room. No tables, no linens, etc. Caterers are quoting $40-50/head for food, and they're planning on 120-150 guests. So they're looking at neighboring states (minimum drive: 90 minutes to the state border) for cheaper options.
Dang, I'm in the wrong line of work.
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*sigh* Our lovely admin-type person stopped by my office and we discussed weekend events. Her daughter is getting married next year, and so they're working on the arrangements. The venues in our area are apparently charging $10,000 just for the room. No tables, no linens, etc. Caterers are quoting $40-50/head for food, and they're planning on 120-150 guests. So they're looking at neighboring states (minimum drive: 90 minutes to the state border) for cheaper options.
Dang, I'm in the wrong line of work.
Damn, at that price I could offer a Japanese garden and a nice home to host the wedding in. Hell, it would pay for someone else to do the lawn work for the year. One more would pay for the tables and chairs and a store-room to put them in.
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We spent $25k on our wedding 14 years ago. Best $25k ever spent. I wish we’d spent a little more. We talked about doing something in the in-laws’ backyard for $3k, but we decided we wanted something else. My brother eloped for close to nothing and then did a party a year later. I’ve also been to a wedding that easily cost more than $100k, and could have been $250k. Three separate ballrooms, three separate bands, open bar at the reception and dinner, steak and lobster and chicken for 350 guests, unlimited DOM Perignon, amazing flowers.
The thing is, a wedding should be what the bride and groom want and can afford. We wanted $25k, and we saved up to do that. It was awesome. I was a little miffed that my brother and his wife invited only my mom and stepdad and her parents to their wedding, but hey, it’s their wedding. The fancy wedding was amazing - and a little stuffy and pretentious at times, but when you’re putting on a show for all your rich friends, that’s the way it sometimes is. In the end, it’s about the two people pledging themselves to each other. If they want simple, great. If they want fairy tale and can have it, great. People at our wedding told us they had no idea we could throw such a fun party - totally worth it.
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We spent $25k on our wedding 14 years ago. Best $25k ever spent. I wish we’d spent a little more. We talked about doing something in the in-laws’ backyard for $3k, but we decided we wanted something else. My brother eloped for close to nothing and then did a party a year later. I’ve also been to a wedding that easily cost more than $100k, and could have been $250k. Three separate ballrooms, three separate bands, open bar at the reception and dinner, steak and lobster and chicken for 350 guests, unlimited DOM Perignon, amazing flowers.
The thing is, a wedding should be what the bride and groom want and can afford. We wanted $25k, and we saved up to do that. It was awesome. I was a little miffed that my brother and his wife invited only my mom and stepdad and her parents to their wedding, but hey, it’s their wedding. The fancy wedding was amazing - and a little stuffy and pretentious at times, but when you’re putting on a show for all your rich friends, that’s the way it sometimes is. In the end, it’s about the two people pledging themselves to each other. If they want simple, great. If they want fairy tale and can have it, great. People at our wedding told us they had no idea we could throw such a fun party - totally worth it.
There is a correlation between expensive weddings and higher divorce rate. Does it mean a higher priced wedding will lead to divorce, obviously no. But I would disagree that "putting on a show for your rich friends" is about two people pledging themselves to each other, in the end. It's generally more about the show than the pledge.
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It was dad putting on a show for his rich friends. The couple seems to be pretty happy still, and it’s been years. But hey, you never know. It was a great party though, and seeing my late 80’s grandfather on stage dancing with the bridesmaids is a cherished memory. (He was a great dancer and honestly could out-dance most guys in their twenties even at 85+.)
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We spent $25k on our wedding 14 years ago. Best $25k ever spent. I wish we’d spent a little more. We talked about doing something in the in-laws’ backyard for $3k, but we decided we wanted something else. My brother eloped for close to nothing and then did a party a year later. I’ve also been to a wedding that easily cost more than $100k, and could have been $250k. Three separate ballrooms, three separate bands, open bar at the reception and dinner, steak and lobster and chicken for 350 guests, unlimited DOM Perignon, amazing flowers.
The thing is, a wedding should be what the bride and groom want and can afford. We wanted $25k, and we saved up to do that. It was awesome. I was a little miffed that my brother and his wife invited only my mom and stepdad and her parents to their wedding, but hey, it’s their wedding. The fancy wedding was amazing - and a little stuffy and pretentious at times, but when you’re putting on a show for all your rich friends, that’s the way it sometimes is. In the end, it’s about the two people pledging themselves to each other. If they want simple, great. If they want fairy tale and can have it, great. People at our wedding told us they had no idea we could throw such a fun party - totally worth it.
There is a correlation between expensive weddings and higher divorce rate. Does it mean a higher priced wedding will lead to divorce, obviously no. But I would disagree that "putting on a show for your rich friends" is about two people pledging themselves to each other, in the end. It's generally more about the show than the pledge.
I don't think this means that giving a couple an extra $2,500 to spend on their wedding makes their marriage worse. I think it means that a poorer couple will try to conduct their affairs with informal romantic commitments rather than getting married, since they don't have the money to celebrate with their friends anyway.
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We spent $25k on our wedding 14 years ago. Best $25k ever spent. I wish we’d spent a little more. We talked about doing something in the in-laws’ backyard for $3k, but we decided we wanted something else. My brother eloped for close to nothing and then did a party a year later. I’ve also been to a wedding that easily cost more than $100k, and could have been $250k. Three separate ballrooms, three separate bands, open bar at the reception and dinner, steak and lobster and chicken for 350 guests, unlimited DOM Perignon, amazing flowers.
The thing is, a wedding should be what the bride and groom want and can afford. We wanted $25k, and we saved up to do that. It was awesome. I was a little miffed that my brother and his wife invited only my mom and stepdad and her parents to their wedding, but hey, it’s their wedding. The fancy wedding was amazing - and a little stuffy and pretentious at times, but when you’re putting on a show for all your rich friends, that’s the way it sometimes is. In the end, it’s about the two people pledging themselves to each other. If they want simple, great. If they want fairy tale and can have it, great. People at our wedding told us they had no idea we could throw such a fun party - totally worth it.
There is a correlation between expensive weddings and higher divorce rate. Does it mean a higher priced wedding will lead to divorce, obviously no. But I would disagree that "putting on a show for your rich friends" is about two people pledging themselves to each other, in the end. It's generally more about the show than the pledge.
I don't think this means that giving a couple an extra $2,500 to spend on their wedding makes their marriage worse. I think it means that a poorer couple will try to conduct their affairs with informal romantic commitments rather than getting married, since they don't have the money to celebrate with their friends anyway.
Frankly, if the marriage is only an excuse to throw a party, why should they even get married? Isnt it obvious that it doesn’t really have more then a legal meaning then. They can make the commitment anyway.
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Too many people are too poor to divorce. If your wedding was inexpensive, then you're more likely to fall into this category.
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Too many people are too poor to divorce. If your wedding was inexpensive, then you're more likely to fall into this category.
Maybe if you save on the wedding you can afford a divorce. lol. "I been savin' this money for a divorce, if'n I ever getta husband!"
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Sheetz!!
My cousin works at Sheetz. She started in HS, worked there through college, then got a corporate job with them.
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Too many people are too poor to divorce. If your wedding was inexpensive, then you're more likely to fall into this category.
Because, they can’t afford to live on their own or why? Here the divorce application costs about 105 USD.
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Too many people are too poor to divorce. If your wedding was inexpensive, then you're more likely to fall into this category.
Because, they can’t afford to live on their own or why? Here the divorce application costs about 105 USD.
Yes, because they can't afford to live on their own. My mom hired a lady to help keep her home clean and the lady was divorced but still lived with her ex-husband because neither could afford to live on their own.
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Too many people are too poor to divorce. If your wedding was inexpensive, then you're more likely to fall into this category.
Are you saying that poor people are more likely to have inexpensive weddings and in turn less likely to divorce for the same reason, being poor? That sounds odd to me, is there a study that indicates this?
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Too many people are too poor to divorce. If your wedding was inexpensive, then you're more likely to fall into this category.
Are you saying that poor people are more likely to have inexpensive weddings and in turn less likely to divorce for the same reason, being poor? That sounds odd to me, is there a study that indicates this?
I wasn't the one that suggested this, but I can give you the anecdotal evidence that I know more than a few couples too poor to divorce. They're all in the Babyboom generation, they generally own their family house outright, but in today's market selling the family house wouldn't buy back two small apartments. Plus in that generation many women don't work and/or earn as much as men do and have much less pension savings. They prefer a bad marriage over being destitute.
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Too many people are too poor to divorce. If your wedding was inexpensive, then you're more likely to fall into this category.
Are you saying that poor people are more likely to have inexpensive weddings and in turn less likely to divorce for the same reason, being poor? That sounds odd to me, is there a study that indicates this?
I wasn't the one that suggested this, but I can give you the anecdotal evidence that I know more than a few couples too poor to divorce. They're all in the Babyboom generation, they generally own their family house outright, but in today's market selling the family house wouldn't buy back two small apartments. Plus in that generation many women don't work and/or earn as much as men do and have much less pension savings. They prefer a bad marriage over being destitute.
I personally know 4 people right now who won't get a divorce due to money. Three of them are in their 50's and one is 75.
The saddest one was in her late 70's and asked her kids if she could move in them so she could leave their father. They refused and she died a year later.
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Too many people are too poor to divorce. If your wedding was inexpensive, then you're more likely to fall into this category.
Are you saying that poor people are more likely to have inexpensive weddings and in turn less likely to divorce for the same reason, being poor? That sounds odd to me, is there a study that indicates this?
I wasn't the one that suggested this, but I can give you the anecdotal evidence that I know more than a few couples too poor to divorce. They're all in the Babyboom generation, they generally own their family house outright, but in today's market selling the family house wouldn't buy back two small apartments. Plus in that generation many women don't work and/or earn as much as men do and have much less pension savings. They prefer a bad marriage over being destitute.
I personally know 4 people right now who won't get a divorce due to money. Three of them are in their 50's and one is 75.
The saddest one was in her late 70's and asked her kids if she could move in them so she could leave their father. They refused and she died a year later.
I know an elderly couple in a similar position as well. Their only income is social security, and the poor wife is stuck in the relationship.
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Too many people are too poor to divorce. If your wedding was inexpensive, then you're more likely to fall into this category.
Are you saying that poor people are more likely to have inexpensive weddings and in turn less likely to divorce for the same reason, being poor? That sounds odd to me, is there a study that indicates this?
I wasn't the one that suggested this, but I can give you the anecdotal evidence that I know more than a few couples too poor to divorce. They're all in the Babyboom generation, they generally own their family house outright, but in today's market selling the family house wouldn't buy back two small apartments. Plus in that generation many women don't work and/or earn as much as men do and have much less pension savings. They prefer a bad marriage over being destitute.
I personally know 4 people right now who won't get a divorce due to money. Three of them are in their 50's and one is 75.
The saddest one was in her late 70's and asked her kids if she could move in them so she could leave their father. They refused and she died a year later.
I know an elderly couple in a similar position as well. Their only income is social security, and the poor wife is stuck in the relationship.
I agree that many couples cannot afford to divorce, I know some as well, but I'm unaware of any corresponding link to their "inexpensive" weddings. Other than boomers seemed to have had cheaper weddings on the whole. Less emphasis on full service dinner dancing events with open bar than is common today.
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Too many people are too poor to divorce. If your wedding was inexpensive, then you're more likely to fall into this category.
Are you saying that poor people are more likely to have inexpensive weddings and in turn less likely to divorce for the same reason, being poor? That sounds odd to me, is there a study that indicates this?
I wasn't the one that suggested this, but I can give you the anecdotal evidence that I know more than a few couples too poor to divorce. They're all in the Babyboom generation, they generally own their family house outright, but in today's market selling the family house wouldn't buy back two small apartments. Plus in that generation many women don't work and/or earn as much as men do and have much less pension savings. They prefer a bad marriage over being destitute.
I personally know 4 people right now who won't get a divorce due to money. Three of them are in their 50's and one is 75.
The saddest one was in her late 70's and asked her kids if she could move in them so she could leave their father. They refused and she died a year later.
I know an elderly couple in a similar position as well. Their only income is social security, and the poor wife is stuck in the relationship.
I agree that many couples cannot afford to divorce, I know some as well, but I'm unaware of any corresponding link to their "inexpensive" weddings. Other than boomers seemed to have had cheaper weddings on the whole. Less emphasis on full service dinner dancing events with open bar than is common today.
I'm not sure if there's a link other than that people with low incomes generally have cheaper weddings.
Not sure if in the past weddings in my culture were much cheaper than these days. Open bar, dinner and dancing was always the norm in my culture. That's how my parents and grandparents held their weddings as well. But they did select a venue, a menu and an amount of guests that fitted their budget, in my grandparents' case that meant at home. I think weddings held at home are almost unheard of now. I'm sure they did save a ton of money on appearances. It seems everyone now has a hair and makeup artist at their wedding, brides get their nails done etc. In my parents' days people had no idea what a makeup artist even was, let alone that working class girls would hire one for their makeup. I know my mum just asked the friend with the best hair to do hers for her wedding. No one paid for extra decorations to a venue and my mum's bouquet was a gift from a friend who was a florist. And for dinner they just had a simple vegetable soup, meat, potatoes and vegetables. I guess there were less brides wanting to create an unique experience, they just went ahead with what everyone did.
These days couples still cut corners even at fancy weddings, they just have different priorities. In my social circle, +1's have become almost unheard of. Mr Imma and I have so far only been to one wedding together. Even (maybe especially) at fancypants weddings spouses are often not invited. The wedding we went to together was a laid-back affair and we both enjoyed it very much. Personally I would rather buy a less expensive dress/manicure/make-up artist than cut corners on the guest list, but I suppose that doesn't look as good on Instagram.
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In my social circle, +1's have become almost unheard of. Mr Imma and I have so far only been to one wedding together.
I'm curious how they convey this...is it delicately mentioned on the invitation? I've seen the "this event is for adults" (translation: leave your kids at home) but not this.
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Regarding the older couples who can't divorce due to finances: I don't know why, but it's stuck in my head that maybe there could be a life-swap of some kind?
(yes, "life" not "wife")
That if 2 couples were so unhappy and wanted out, maybe one half of the couple's partners could switch residences with the other couple. I'm thinking they would be happier living elsewhere with someone who happens to be in the same situation and the switch could solve both parties' problems in that at least they would be relieved of having to live with someone they really hate.
It would be another level of the already existing roommate-matching services. It just pains me to see older people stuck in this situation with no way out.
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I think it's also important to acknowledge that older couples often stick it out for reasons other than money. I'm sure younger couples do as well, but I've mainly only seen this aversion to divorce due to duty and moral reasons with my mother's generation and above (boomer's and silent generation). My mother's boyfriend (in his 70s) stayed with his wife until she passed away, even though he knew it was a bad match by the time their first child was born, simply because he fully internalized the lesson that marriage is forever and that men don't walk away from a marriage. I have an aunt who stayed married for similar reasons, although hers is more rooted in religion than in duty. Both of these examples had the money to walk away with all parties well taken care of.
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In my social circle, +1's have become almost unheard of. Mr Imma and I have so far only been to one wedding together.
I'm curious how they convey this...is it delicately mentioned on the invitation? I've seen the "this event is for adults" (translation: leave your kids at home) but not this.
Not sure about Imma, but in my area, traditionally the invitees are stated on the envelope, ie, Mr. and Mrs. Smith (both are invited) or the Smith family (the couple and their children are invited) or Mr. Smith (just Mr. Smith is invited). The response card might also restate this for emphasis (Mr. Smith will/will not be attending). I've never been to a wedding where both spouses were not invited, but the "plus 1" for unmarried guests was uncommon unless they were engaged or in a long term serious relationship.
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In my social circle, +1's have become almost unheard of. Mr Imma and I have so far only been to one wedding together.
I'm curious how they convey this...is it delicately mentioned on the invitation? I've seen the "this event is for adults" (translation: leave your kids at home) but not this.
I used to do long term contract work for a military unit. When it came time for the summer picnic or winter holiday party, each new unit commander would have a different policy about whether contractors could come to the party or not. We contractors just took it in stride. One year, contractors could come but not their spouses. That pissed me off.
So I went to the unit commander's office and spoke to his secretary, whom I was on friendly terms with. I mentioned the party invites and said, very curtly, "I do not go to the kind of parties my wife is not welcome at."
A few days later a "clarification" on the party was sent out and spouses could attend.
FU money and social capital are wonderful things.
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In my social circle, +1's have become almost unheard of. Mr Imma and I have so far only been to one wedding together.
I'm curious how they convey this...is it delicately mentioned on the invitation? I've seen the "this event is for adults" (translation: leave your kids at home) but not this.
I used to do long term contract work for a military unit. When it came time for the summer picnic or winter holiday party, each new unit commander would have a different policy about whether contractors could come to the party or not. We contractors just took it in stride. One year, contractors could come but not their spouses. That pissed me off.
So I went to the unit commander's office and spoke to his secretary, whom I was on friendly terms with. I mentioned the party invites and said, very curtly, "I do not go to the kind of parties my wife is not welcome at."
A few days later a "clarification" on the party was sent out and spouses could attend.
FU money and social capital are wonderful things.
I have never been to a work party were the spouses have been invited. The only time I have heard of was when my fathers employer had a 100 year celebration but that was a special occasion. I can’t even fathom why somebody would like to go to their spouses office parties.
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In my social circle, +1's have become almost unheard of. Mr Imma and I have so far only been to one wedding together.
I'm curious how they convey this...is it delicately mentioned on the invitation? I've seen the "this event is for adults" (translation: leave your kids at home) but not this.
Not sure about Imma, but in my area, traditionally the invitees are stated on the envelope, ie, Mr. and Mrs. Smith (both are invited) or the Smith family (the couple and their children are invited) or Mr. Smith (just Mr. Smith is invited). The response card might also restate this for emphasis (Mr. Smith will/will not be attending). I've never been to a wedding where both spouses were not invited, but the "plus 1" for unmarried guests was uncommon unless they were engaged or in a long term serious relationship.
Actually the most recent time this happened was last week. And indeed, it was addressed to "Mr Imma", so he texted his friend whether the invitation was meant for just him or for both of us, and his friend answered it was just for him, for budget reasons. We had honestly always thought the couple were well off, but they had to make a few choices that they themselves described as painful, so maybe there's a change of circumstances that we aren't aware of.
I have to say this is an old highschool/college friend, so someone he is close to but who is only a vague acquaintance for me. Most of the weddings where we didn't get a +1 were that type of weddings - coworkers or highschool/college friends who were really only friends with one half of the couple.
In my social circle, +1's have become almost unheard of. Mr Imma and I have so far only been to one wedding together.
I'm curious how they convey this...is it delicately mentioned on the invitation? I've seen the "this event is for adults" (translation: leave your kids at home) but not this.
I used to do long term contract work for a military unit. When it came time for the summer picnic or winter holiday party, each new unit commander would have a different policy about whether contractors could come to the party or not. We contractors just took it in stride. One year, contractors could come but not their spouses. That pissed me off.
So I went to the unit commander's office and spoke to his secretary, whom I was on friendly terms with. I mentioned the party invites and said, very curtly, "I do not go to the kind of parties my wife is not welcome at."
A few days later a "clarification" on the party was sent out and spouses could attend.
FU money and social capital are wonderful things.
I have never been to a work party were the spouses have been invited. The only time I have heard of was when my fathers employer had a 100 year celebration but that was a special occasion. I can’t even fathom why somebody would like to go to their spouses office parties.
I have also never worked somewhere where spouses were invited to office parties, but I think we are both Europeans and @SwordGuy is in the US so maybe it's common over there? I was very surprised to be invited to a big Christmas party at Mr Imma's workplace a few years ago but that's a very, very informal environment and I know all of his coworkers, because he's in hospitality and I go there as a customer sometimes. It was a lot of fun.
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I think most Americans would not attend a wedding if their spouse or long term partner were not invited. That seems very strange to me. My office always invites a plus one to the parties, but I think that is in part due to the bill of goods that the American workplace is trying to sell to the employee, that “We are a Family.” Or maybe that’s just my office.
The biggest fight I got into about my wedding was the rehearsal dinner. My in laws insisted on paying for it, and I insisted on including the spouses of the out of towners (3 extra people). They traveled hundreds of miles for their spouse to be in my wedding, I was not going to have them sitting in a hotel eating dinner alone. MIL argued this was too expensive. I argued that I would pay for it and hold it at a local pizza parlor, inclusiveness being more important to me than optics. She was horrified that people might think that a pizza dinner was her being cheap (In laws traditionally pay for the rehearsal dinner - not that I gave a hoot about tradition or her paying for it), and ended up relenting and just covering the spouses at the restaurant of her choice. If I had a do over, I would have done things very differently with her from day one. We have magnificent boundaries now!
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In my experience (US) there are office parties and work parties. Office parties are typically held onsite and they are more casual and only for work colleagues and maybe a vendor or two. You'd never bring a +1 to an office party. Work parties are typically held off-site, may be a bit formal, and include +1 or even full family invites (such as the company picnics I was dragged to as a child). I've been to office holiday parties that were held in a decorated break room or at a table in a restaurant, and I've work holiday parties where we all dressed up, brought a date, and hung out at a catered ballroom at the local HoJo.
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In my experience (US) there are office parties and work parties. Office parties are typically held onsite and they are more casual and only for work colleagues and maybe a vendor or two. You'd never bring a +1 to an office party. Work parties are typically held off-site, may be a bit formal, and include +1 or even full family invites (such as the company picnics I was dragged to as a child). I've been to office holiday parties that were held in a decorated break room or at a table in a restaurant, and I've work holiday parties where we all dressed up, brought a date, and hung out at a catered ballroom at the local HoJo.
This is my experience too. The "a couple beers with coworkers, because why not?" type parties are usually just for one team or geographical office, and they don't really have the concept of +1s (though if someone's SO works nearby, it wouldn't be a big deal if they popped in for a drink). Then there's the anniversary or winter holiday type party, which is a SOs invited affair.
I like it at my current job, because the workforce is a little older and more diverse than the bro-y startups I've worked at in the past, so I'm friendly with a lot of my colleagues outside of a work context. That makes they're simultaneously more relaxed and more enjoyable affairs where it's just having a couple of drinks with coworkers and their SOs.
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I guess every thing I've ever been invited to at work was an office party then, and not a work party. In most workplaces they are during or right after work hours (like 3 to 7 or something) and it's often either at work or you travel with your coworkers to the party location and back to the office, where everyone goes their seperate ways. None of the parties I've been to required dressing up, we all just wear our regular office clothes.
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In my experience (US) there are office parties and work parties. Office parties are typically held onsite and they are more casual and only for work colleagues and maybe a vendor or two. You'd never bring a +1 to an office party. Work parties are typically held off-site, may be a bit formal, and include +1 or even full family invites (such as the company picnics I was dragged to as a child). I've been to office holiday parties that were held in a decorated break room or at a table in a restaurant, and I've work holiday parties where we all dressed up, brought a date, and hung out at a catered ballroom at the local HoJo.
Yep, this. Husband's former employer (biotech) used to throw big, flashy holiday parties, and spouses/partners were always invited. My grad department also threw big holiday parties, and families were invited. In other departments, each lab group did its own holiday thing, and those were usually just long lunches or dinners right after work, so just the employees attended.
I don't think I've ever been invited to a wedding without also receiving an invitation for my husband. It just isn't done. In my family/cultural background, you invite both or neither (i.e., it's better to have a smaller wedding than to invite only certain members of a family/friend tier). If the budget were tight, it would be considered far, far less offensive (not at all offensive, actually) to have a small wedding with only immediate family and close friends than to have a larger wedding but only invite some first cousins but not others, friends without their partners, etc.
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Personally I would also prefer to not split up couples. I would rather have a less impressive venue or a simpler menu than not inviting partners or not serving a meal and have an open bar.
I think this is a social shift that happened in my generation, because the first few weddings I was invited to I still lived at home and my parents were shocked there was a) no reception and b) no +1. In my country the reception after the wedding was a public event where people not invited to the evening party could congratulate the couple and their parents. My parents had wanted to go to congratulate my highschool friend but couldn't because there was no reception. I don't think any wedding I've been to had a reception.
In my generation socializing without your partner has become the norm. My parents and all their friends and spouses met in highschool and did everything together. In my generation most people have seperate college friends, work friends, sports team friends... I only know a handful of their partners very well. Mr Imma's friend that didn't invite me, I hardly know him and would not recognize him in a crowd. Neither of us have met the bride. So it doesn't feel very weird. It would be weird if it was a couple we both know well and hang out with together and they would still only invite one of us.
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In my experience (US) there are office parties and work parties. Office parties are typically held onsite and they are more casual and only for work colleagues and maybe a vendor or two. You'd never bring a +1 to an office party. Work parties are typically held off-site, may be a bit formal, and include +1 or even full family invites (such as the company picnics I was dragged to as a child). I've been to office holiday parties that were held in a decorated break room or at a table in a restaurant, and I've work holiday parties where we all dressed up, brought a date, and hung out at a catered ballroom at the local HoJo.
The christmas party have been what you would call a work party but it has never been a +1 event.
I think most Americans would not attend a wedding if their spouse or long term partner were not invited. That seems very strange to me. My office always invites a plus one to the parties, but I think that is in part due to the bill of goods that the American workplace is trying to sell to the employee, that “We are a Family.” Or maybe that’s just my office.
I find the ”we are a family” concept a bit funny as it seems you can be fired pretty easily. We are family as long as I please you...
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I think even having a wedding is based on other conditions in the life. It will be interesting to see how the one year gap caused by this pandemic affects what people expect from their friends for wedding attendance (and attendants).
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I find the ”we are a family” concept a bit funny as it seems you can be fired pretty easily. We are family as long as I please you...
The old olive garden slogan always got me like that. "When you're here, you're family! As long as you pay your f'in bill because if not you're dead to us."
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I find the ”we are a family” concept a bit funny as it seems you can be fired pretty easily. We are family as long as I please you...
The old olive garden slogan always got me like that. "When you're here, you're family! As long as you pay your f'in bill because if not you're dead to us."
I figure if a company is talking about family, it is going to be like the side of my family we don't talk to, not the side we love to hang out with.
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I find the ”we are a family” concept a bit funny as it seems you can be fired pretty easily. We are family as long as I please you...
The old olive garden slogan always got me like that. "When you're here, you're family! As long as you pay your f'in bill because if not you're dead to us."
I figure if a company is talking about family, it is going to be like the side of my family we don't talk to, not the side we love to hang out with.
Like the pain in the ass relative that you tolerate a couple of times per year because they are family.
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In my social circle, +1's have become almost unheard of. Mr Imma and I have so far only been to one wedding together.
I'm curious how they convey this...is it delicately mentioned on the invitation? I've seen the "this event is for adults" (translation: leave your kids at home) but not this.
We got married just a few months ago and it wasn't really a question of phrasing it delicately. I just baldly stated on the invitation to "please leave unmarried significant others at home." We were limited to a specific number of people by the venue, and I didn't feel that my 15 and 17 year old nieces needed to bring their high school boyfriends.
As it turned out, there were only 2 unmarried adult couples, and they brought their SOs anyway. I don't know if they didn't see the comment on the invite, or just chose to ignore it.
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It's hard to draw the line, but I'm sure are some domestic partnerships that are quite "serious" without being legally married. I felt snubbed when I wasn't invited to my spouse's cousin's wedding with him when we had been dating for almost 7 years, living together at the time, and spent holidays with that part of the family. It's not really here nor there, but the couple divorced about 5 years later.
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In my social circle, +1's have become almost unheard of. Mr Imma and I have so far only been to one wedding together.
I'm curious how they convey this...is it delicately mentioned on the invitation? I've seen the "this event is for adults" (translation: leave your kids at home) but not this.
We got married just a few months ago and it wasn't really a question of phrasing it delicately. I just baldly stated on the invitation to "please leave unmarried significant others at home." We were limited to a specific number of people by the venue, and I didn't feel that my 15 and 17 year old nieces needed to bring their high school boyfriends.
As it turned out, there were only 2 unmarried adult couples, and they brought their SOs anyway. I don't know if they didn't see the comment on the invite, or just chose to ignore it.
How did you feel about that? I wouldn't mind not going to a wedding if SO's in general weren't invited but I would be very pissed off if I wasn't invited because we are civil partners rather than spouses. I totally understand not wanting to include teenage boyfriends but I would feel insulted if someone considered my relationship less real because we didn't do a church thing. Especially since Mr Imma and I have been together for much longer than most couples whose weddings I've attended.
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In my social circle, +1's have become almost unheard of. Mr Imma and I have so far only been to one wedding together.
I'm curious how they convey this...is it delicately mentioned on the invitation? I've seen the "this event is for adults" (translation: leave your kids at home) but not this.
We got married just a few months ago and it wasn't really a question of phrasing it delicately. I just baldly stated on the invitation to "please leave unmarried significant others at home." We were limited to a specific number of people by the venue, and I didn't feel that my 15 and 17 year old nieces needed to bring their high school boyfriends.
As it turned out, there were only 2 unmarried adult couples, and they brought their SOs anyway. I don't know if they didn't see the comment on the invite, or just chose to ignore it.
How did you feel about that? I wouldn't mind not going to a wedding if SO's in general weren't invited but I would be very pissed off if I wasn't invited because we are civil partners rather than spouses. I totally understand not wanting to include teenage boyfriends but I would feel insulted if someone considered my relationship less real because we didn't do a church thing. Especially since Mr Imma and I have been together for much longer than most couples whose weddings I've attended.
Oh, I didn't mind at all that (adult) SOs showed up. Honestly, I was only thinking of the teenagers when I put the invite together and had forgotten some of our friends weren't married. So it all worked out just fine.
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In my social circle, +1's have become almost unheard of. Mr Imma and I have so far only been to one wedding together.
I'm curious how they convey this...is it delicately mentioned on the invitation? I've seen the "this event is for adults" (translation: leave your kids at home) but not this.
We got married just a few months ago and it wasn't really a question of phrasing it delicately. I just baldly stated on the invitation to "please leave unmarried significant others at home." We were limited to a specific number of people by the venue, and I didn't feel that my 15 and 17 year old nieces needed to bring their high school boyfriends.
As it turned out, there were only 2 unmarried adult couples, and they brought their SOs anyway. I don't know if they didn't see the comment on the invite, or just chose to ignore it.
I had one family RSVP with 9 when I'd only invited 5...
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In my social circle, +1's have become almost unheard of. Mr Imma and I have so far only been to one wedding together.
I'm curious how they convey this...is it delicately mentioned on the invitation? I've seen the "this event is for adults" (translation: leave your kids at home) but not this.
We got married just a few months ago and it wasn't really a question of phrasing it delicately. I just baldly stated on the invitation to "please leave unmarried significant others at home." We were limited to a specific number of people by the venue, and I didn't feel that my 15 and 17 year old nieces needed to bring their high school boyfriends.
As it turned out, there were only 2 unmarried adult couples, and they brought their SOs anyway. I don't know if they didn't see the comment on the invite, or just chose to ignore it.
How did you feel about that? I wouldn't mind not going to a wedding if SO's in general weren't invited but I would be very pissed off if I wasn't invited because we are civil partners rather than spouses. I totally understand not wanting to include teenage boyfriends but I would feel insulted if someone considered my relationship less real because we didn't do a church thing. Especially since Mr Imma and I have been together for much longer than most couples whose weddings I've attended.
The Miss Manners' answer is very clear - if they are co-habiting, you treat them as married, and invite them both; the invitation is addressed to both, at the same address. If not co-habiting, you make a choice. Venue limits is a great reason to make that choice.
We had heard horror stories about people bringing casual dates to receptions, so our RSVP card was very clear:
____. Yes, _(name)_____ will be attending. Total number attending: _____
_____, No, ___(name)___ will not be attending.
I had one cousin who was invited as a singleton, and she replied with *2* attending. So I called her, and told her that the invitation was only for one. She chose to revoke her attendance, even though her mother, sister, brother, SIL, uncle and niece were all attending.
We were OK with that choice.
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The Miss Manners' answer is very clear - if they are co-habiting, you treat them as married, and invite them both; the invitation is addressed to both, at the same address. If not co-habiting, you make a choice. Venue limits is a great reason to make that choice.
We had heard horror stories about people bringing casual dates to receptions, so our RSVP card was very clear:
____. Yes, _(name)_____ will be attending. Total number attending: _____
_____, No, ___(name)___ will not be attending.
I had one cousin who was invited as a singleton, and she replied with *2* attending. So I called her, and told her that the invitation was only for one. She chose to revoke her attendance, even though her mother, sister, brother, SIL, uncle and niece were all attending.
We were OK with that choice.
If you're trying to be clear, shouldn't you pre-fill the form?
Total number attending: _1___
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My husband’s brother brought his girlfriend-at-the-time to our wedding. I had never met her before the wedding day. I don’t know her name. They broke up shortly after. So now we have a random stranger in most of our “family” wedding pictures. 😂
It doesn’t bother me at all. It’s not like I spend a significant amount of time looking through my wedding pics every day.
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My husband’s brother brought his girlfriend-at-the-time to our wedding. I had never met her before the wedding day. I don’t know her name. They broke up shortly after. So now we have a random stranger in most of our “family” wedding pictures. 😂
It doesn’t bother me at all. It’s not like I spend a significant amount of time looking through my wedding pics every day.
I got married January 12th. My brother brought the girl he picked up at the bar on New Year's Eve as his date. She hit on the officiant all night. They did not see each other afterwards. So now my wedding pictures have this rando in them too. But I'm like you and don't look at them all that often.
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We used an online RSVP platform that we uploaded the guest list to. Guests would search their name and everyone on that invitation would appear on screen and they could select attending or regrets. This was really nice for making it extra clear who was invited and who wasn't.
Almost all of our friends and family were in long term relationships at the time, so they were invited as couples. And the few that weren't got +1 since it added so few to the guest count.
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My husband’s brother brought his girlfriend-at-the-time to our wedding. I had never met her before the wedding day. I don’t know her name. They broke up shortly after. So now we have a random stranger in most of our “family” wedding pictures. 😂
It doesn’t bother me at all. It’s not like I spend a significant amount of time looking through my wedding pics every day.
I got married January 12th. My brother brought the girl he picked up at the bar on New Year's Eve as his date. She hit on the officiant all night. They did not see each other afterwards. So now my wedding pictures have this rando in them too. But I'm like you and don't look at them all that often.
I not only have two random dates (BiL date, mom date neither were around for more than two months before or after the wedding) in my wedding pictures, but also one family picture with a random child that literally none of us know and don't know where he came from. I can only assume he had something to do with a staff member at the venue and with all the moving around the photog grabbed him and stuck him in hinking he belonged since it was just family around.
We still laugh about that one. It's totally one of my favorite pictures from the day.
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The Miss Manners' answer is very clear - if they are co-habiting, you treat them as married, and invite them both; the invitation is addressed to both, at the same address. If not co-habiting, you make a choice. Venue limits is a great reason to make that choice.
We had heard horror stories about people bringing casual dates to receptions, so our RSVP card was very clear:
____. Yes, _(name)_____ will be attending. Total number attending: _____
_____, No, ___(name)___ will not be attending.
I had one cousin who was invited as a singleton, and she replied with *2* attending. So I called her, and told her that the invitation was only for one. She chose to revoke her attendance, even though her mother, sister, brother, SIL, uncle and niece were all attending.
We were OK with that choice.
If you're trying to be clear, shouldn't you pre-fill the form?
Total number attending: _1___
Nope. We had some families where only some could make it, so we invited 4, and 2 attended.
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The Miss Manners' answer is very clear - if they are co-habiting, you treat them as married, and invite them both; the invitation is addressed to both, at the same address. If not co-habiting, you make a choice. Venue limits is a great reason to make that choice.
We had heard horror stories about people bringing casual dates to receptions, so our RSVP card was very clear:
____. Yes, _(name)_____ will be attending. Total number attending: _____
_____, No, ___(name)___ will not be attending.
I had one cousin who was invited as a singleton, and she replied with *2* attending. So I called her, and told her that the invitation was only for one. She chose to revoke her attendance, even though her mother, sister, brother, SIL, uncle and niece were all attending.
We were OK with that choice.
If you're trying to be clear, shouldn't you pre-fill the form?
Total number attending: _1___
Nope. We had some families where only some could make it, so we invited 4, and 2 attended.
Then you don't fill those invitations in with the answer...
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The Miss Manners' answer is very clear - if they are co-habiting, you treat them as married, and invite them both; the invitation is addressed to both, at the same address. If not co-habiting, you make a choice. Venue limits is a great reason to make that choice.
We had heard horror stories about people bringing casual dates to receptions, so our RSVP card was very clear:
____. Yes, _(name)_____ will be attending. Total number attending: _____
_____, No, ___(name)___ will not be attending.
I had one cousin who was invited as a singleton, and she replied with *2* attending. So I called her, and told her that the invitation was only for one. She chose to revoke her attendance, even though her mother, sister, brother, SIL, uncle and niece were all attending.
We were OK with that choice.
If you're trying to be clear, shouldn't you pre-fill the form?
Total number attending: _1___
Nope. We had some families where only some could make it, so we invited 4, and 2 attended.
Then you don't fill those invitations in with the answer...
I don't know what you're talking about.
We didn't know how many were coming, and I wasn't about to call 100+ families to pre-fill the info. That's what the RSVP is for.
It worked perfectly - it flagged the one person who tried to add a +1 when one was not invited, and it allowed everyone else to reply with the family and friends who did plan to attend.
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My husband’s brother brought his girlfriend-at-the-time to our wedding. I had never met her before the wedding day. I don’t know her name. They broke up shortly after. So now we have a random stranger in most of our “family” wedding pictures. 😂
It doesn’t bother me at all. It’s not like I spend a significant amount of time looking through my wedding pics every day.
I got married January 12th. My brother brought the girl he picked up at the bar on New Year's Eve as his date. She hit on the officiant all night. They did not see each other afterwards. So now my wedding pictures have this rando in them too. But I'm like you and don't look at them all that often.
I not only have two random dates (BiL date, mom date neither were around for more than two months before or after the wedding) in my wedding pictures, but also one family picture with a random child that literally none of us know and don't know where he came from. I can only assume he had something to do with a staff member at the venue and with all the moving around the photog grabbed him and stuck him in hinking he belonged since it was just family around.
We still laugh about that one. It's totally one of my favorite pictures from the day.
I know that child. He died 100 years ago. He’s always been the caretaker of that hotel
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My husband’s brother brought his girlfriend-at-the-time to our wedding. I had never met her before the wedding day. I don’t know her name. They broke up shortly after. So now we have a random stranger in most of our “family” wedding pictures. 😂
It doesn’t bother me at all. It’s not like I spend a significant amount of time looking through my wedding pics every day.
I got married January 12th. My brother brought the girl he picked up at the bar on New Year's Eve as his date. She hit on the officiant all night. They did not see each other afterwards. So now my wedding pictures have this rando in them too. But I'm like you and don't look at them all that often.
Have you watched Lovesick (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lovesick_(TV_series))? You should. Everyone in this thread should. The episode with the wedding is the season premiere.
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My husband’s brother brought his girlfriend-at-the-time to our wedding. I had never met her before the wedding day. I don’t know her name. They broke up shortly after. So now we have a random stranger in most of our “family” wedding pictures. 😂
It doesn’t bother me at all. It’s not like I spend a significant amount of time looking through my wedding pics every day.
I got married January 12th. My brother brought the girl he picked up at the bar on New Year's Eve as his date. She hit on the officiant all night. They did not see each other afterwards. So now my wedding pictures have this rando in them too. But I'm like you and don't look at them all that often.
I not only have two random dates (BiL date, mom date neither were around for more than two months before or after the wedding) in my wedding pictures, but also one family picture with a random child that literally none of us know and don't know where he came from. I can only assume he had something to do with a staff member at the venue and with all the moving around the photog grabbed him and stuck him in hinking he belonged since it was just family around.
We still laugh about that one. It's totally one of my favorite pictures from the day.
I know that child. He died 100 years ago. He’s always been the caretaker of that hotel
Maybe it was a Zashiki Warashi? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zashiki-warashi
That would mean a lot of good luck when it's even on the photos!
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*sigh* Our lovely admin-type person stopped by my office and we discussed weekend events. Her daughter is getting married next year, and so they're working on the arrangements. The venues in our area are apparently charging $10,000 just for the room. No tables, no linens, etc. Caterers are quoting $40-50/head for food, and they're planning on 120-150 guests. So they're looking at neighboring states (minimum drive: 90 minutes to the state border) for cheaper options.
Dang, I'm in the wrong line of work.
I won't be surprised if in the near future there is an AirBNB type operation for wedding receptions. For the food, most people I know who are not spendypants get a caterer from just outside the county and save about 40%.
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*sigh* Our lovely admin-type person stopped by my office and we discussed weekend events. Her daughter is getting married next year, and so they're working on the arrangements. The venues in our area are apparently charging $10,000 just for the room. No tables, no linens, etc. Caterers are quoting $40-50/head for food, and they're planning on 120-150 guests. So they're looking at neighboring states (minimum drive: 90 minutes to the state border) for cheaper options.
Dang, I'm in the wrong line of work.
I won't be surprised if in the near future there is an AirBNB type operation for wedding receptions. For the food, most people I know who are not spendypants get a caterer from just outside the county and save about 40%.
I worked for a caterer for awhile, so I've got a few tips. For food, you can do a buffet without it feeling like a buffet. Have them set up food stations of heavy hors d'oeuvres, but instead of setting it up in a line, scatter the stations around the reception area. It encourages people to walk around and see what's available and socialize. You can also lowball the headcount by a few people and are likely to still have enough food.
Look for non-traditional venues. Musuems, state parks, etc. When I got married, we rented out a lodge for the weekend (granted, I had closer to 50 people than 150). I bought my table linens and resold them within 3 days after the wedding. I ordered wholesale flowers and put together simple bouquets and boutonnieres together myself the day before and then used the bouquets as table decorations (again, I didn't have a whole lot of tables to do).
I also made my own veil. It was literally $8 worth of materials.
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My husband’s brother brought his girlfriend-at-the-time to our wedding. I had never met her before the wedding day. I don’t know her name. They broke up shortly after. So now we have a random stranger in most of our “family” wedding pictures. 😂
It doesn’t bother me at all. It’s not like I spend a significant amount of time looking through my wedding pics every day.
I got married January 12th. My brother brought the girl he picked up at the bar on New Year's Eve as his date. She hit on the officiant all night. They did not see each other afterwards. So now my wedding pictures have this rando in them too. But I'm like you and don't look at them all that often.
I not only have two random dates (BiL date, mom date neither were around for more than two months before or after the wedding) in my wedding pictures, but also one family picture with a random child that literally none of us know and don't know where he came from. I can only assume he had something to do with a staff member at the venue and with all the moving around the photog grabbed him and stuck him in hinking he belonged since it was just family around.
We still laugh about that one. It's totally one of my favorite pictures from the day.
I'd rather have randos in my photos than my husband's (now estranged) father. The man didn't want to be there, and is scowling in every photo he's in.
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We had a Chinese wedding banquet at a Chinese restaurant. No dancing or music, which I don’t like anyway, 10-course meal for 100 people, we supplied our own alcohol (no corking fee), snd the whole thing was something like $5k. Everyone had a great time, good food, minimal planning on our part aside from choosing the menu. It feels crazy to hear about what people spend on western style wedding receptions.
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Reading another thread (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/do-any-of-your-parents-hoard-and-try-to-give-you-crap-and-other-dumb-stuff/), realized I have something to contribute here.
High-level gov guy, who's worked with my boss for years, pays $300/month (yes, MONTH, heard that word several times in the conversation) for a storage locker for his wife to store junk stuff. He meant it, stuff like an old washer and dryer, their daughter's old sports equipment, which the grown-up daughter doesn't want, and other junk. Just listening to him made my mind go haywire, I was flabbergasted.
I could only think of what George Carlin said about "Stuff": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac
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Reading another thread (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/do-any-of-your-parents-hoard-and-try-to-give-you-crap-and-other-dumb-stuff/), realized I have something to contribute here.
High-level gov guy, who's worked with my boss for years, pays $300/month (yes, MONTH, heard that word several times in the conversation) for a storage locker for his wife to store junk stuff. He meant it, stuff like an old washer and dryer, their daughter's old sports equipment, which the grown-up daughter doesn't want, and other junk. Just listening to him made my mind go haywire, I was flabbergasted.
I could only think of what George Carlin said about "Stuff": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac
You know, I have wondered a lot of times now why I am so often wrong on what new thing people will use and what not.
The result of my analysis was that the stupider something seems to me, the bigger hit it will be.
Looks like that also works for old stuff, especially with stuff ;)
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Am I the only one who works in an office where discussion of the best new TV prices take place at least monthly?
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You know, I have wondered a lot of times now why I am so often wrong on what new thing people will use and what not.
The result of my analysis was that the stupider something seems to me, the bigger hit it will be.
Ah, a kindred spirit!
We both have a highly valuable talent but capitalism has failed to make efficient use of our expertise. Think how much money could be saved on failed product launches if they canceled products we thought were stupid and useless!
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High-level gov guy, who's worked with my boss for years, pays $300/month (yes, MONTH, heard that word several times in the conversation) for a storage locker for his wife to store junk stuff. He meant it, stuff like an old washer and dryer, their daughter's old sports equipment, which the grown-up daughter doesn't want, and other junk. Just listening to him made my mind go haywire, I was flabbergasted.
I used to be a commercial real estate appraiser and did multiple self-storage properties. I usually wouldn't see inside occupied units but in talking to the owners and managers it was clear that most people literally just stored junk in them. Basically whatever wouldn't fit into someone's closet/garage/attic/basement. So are you going to put your best stuff that you may use someday in your home or in a storage unit? It's not surprising how many people would just stop paying the bill and let the stuff get sold at auction. I would also see people that had units for multiple years, or multiple storage units. In one case the manager said an older couple had an adult child die and they rented three large storage units to put all his stuff in (paying hundreds of dollars per month) because they couldn't bring themselves to get rid of it.
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"The sailboat is a more reasonable option. I can get the 52' for only $1.2M. It's really not bad, even the upkeep is cheaper, something like $100k a year all-in on maintenance and dock fees."
"My 2020 BMW M340xi is certainly fast, but I've been pricing out that new M3. Would be a big step up."
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"The sailboat is a more reasonable option. I can get the 52' for only $1.2M. It's really not bad, even the upkeep is cheaper, something like $100k a year all-in on maintenance and dock fees."
"My 2020 BMW M340xi is certainly fast, but I've been pricing out that new M3. Would be a big step up."
What a workplace is that, where the 100K/year is the cheaper option?
btw. does this guy still have his old boat? I might be convinced to take off his burden from him and make sure his old boat get's a nice new owner.
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The gent who said this is, by far, the exception.
The president of our business division makes >$600k a year and drives a mid 2000s Civic with 200k miles. The guy who made the comment about the sailboat drives the most expensive car in the lot.
I try not to pass judgment on other people's lifestyle choices, but damn, the thought of a $100k annual cost just for the enjoyment of something I get to use a dozen times a year is bonkers to me.
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I try not to pass judgment on other people's lifestyle choices, but damn, the thought of a $100k annual cost just for the enjoyment of something I get to use a dozen times a year is bonkers to me.
If I was going to spend that kind of money, it would be on a woman...
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I think that I could sail around the world for $100k, including the purchase price of a yacht capable of bluewater crossings.
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I try not to pass judgment on other people's lifestyle choices, but damn, the thought of a $100k annual cost just for the enjoyment of something I get to use a dozen times a year is bonkers to me.
If I was going to spend that kind of money, it would be on a woman...
Yeah it sounds like he’s spending 2x his income on the boat and 1/6 income on upkeep. No matter how much money you make those ratios are stupid
And I’m not a fan of tax complainers, but after taxes those ratios are even worse
Maybe he got a huge bonus or has a really high savings rate. Gotta absolutely love boating if you are willing to save for several years to pay for a boat…
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I try not to pass judgment on other people's lifestyle choices, but damn, the thought of a $100k annual cost just for the enjoyment of something I get to use a dozen times a year is bonkers to me.
If I was going to spend that kind of money, it would be on a woman...
Lol, are you single? Cause I'm not spendy, but if I was given the budget, then I could probably dream up ways for someone to spend $100K on me.
On a more topical note:
My brother owns his own construction business and he hired a new guy during the pandemic. It's complicated, skilled labor (custom cabinetry for commercial jobs.) The new guy was normal retirement age and wasn't skilled in construction trades, but he lives in a small town and they needed the money, and my brother was swamped with work coming out of the pandemic shutdown and needed cabinet installers, so he figured he would train him.
Brother was a little worried that the guy wouldn't stick around long enough for it to be worth his effort to train him because he was changing careers from something white collar. So, he asked the guy for his word that he would stay for at least a year. "Of course," he said, "I plan to work 2-3 more years and will stay in this job if you take a chance on hiring me."
Most of his employees are much younger, so my brother thought it would be good to have some more senior, hopefully more mature people on the jobs to set good examples. Installers earn the prevailing wage for each job, which is typically $28-$40 per hour, plus expenses if the install is out of town. The first month of work the new guy made $40/hr for the entire month, even though he didn't know how to do anything job-related and was basically just following the other employees around.
Once he started working, my brother became amazed at how bad he was with money. He said he is temporarily living with his own FIL (who must be in his 90's) ostensibly to save money, but he reports he can't make ends meet. Yet he drives a Lexus SUV, his wife drives a big new Lexus sedan, and, the hilarious kicker: in addition to these they own both a diesel F350 pickup and a gigantic RV. It wouldn't matter, I suppose, except they are so short of money that his wife literally drives to work on payday twice a month to pick up his check for bank deposit while he is still at work. He explained to my brother that she does this because otherwise they can't make it to the next day. Apparently they are always very behind on "the bills." And he reports that they only have $500 as their lifetime savings . . . in their mid-60's. . . and that they keep having to "dip into it for grocery money." So my brother was like "well, living with your FIL and making $40/hr, hopefully you'll be able to get ahead with your savings a bit now."
One of the times he was complaining about "the bills" and how he just can't get ahead, my brother, trying to be friendly and help the guy, asked "well, maybe you could sell the RV so things aren't so tight?" to which the guy said "oh, no, we are fixing that up to live in it full time so we don't have to keep living in my FIL's house." So then my brother said "ok, well, maybe you could sell one of the other cars? It doesn't seem like you really use the truck . . . " But the guy had all kinds of reasons he and his wife needed all 4 vehicles. So then my brother was like "you know, my kids took this Dave Ramsey course, have you heard of him?" And the guy said "oh, yeah, we took it. His methods just aren't going to work for us." So at that point my brother pretty much gave up.
And then, three months after starting the job, the guy came to my brother and they had this conversation:
Guy: "I'm going to take a job at the mill [it's literally a lumber mill]. It's second shift, so I'm hoping I can also still work here in the shop from 10am - 1 pm. The new job starts in a month. I can work here full time until then."
Brother: "The mill? How much does it pay?"
Guy: "$20/hr, but it has better benefits."
Brother: "Huh? You make way more than that here, and I thought I had your word you would stay for a year . . . we are still training you and you don't know how to do half the stuff here yet."
Guy: "I know, and I want to keep working for you, just less hours."
Brother: "Have you been in the mill? I worked there a few months when I first moved here and it's pretty terrible: dark, dangerous, exhausting, loud, repetitive, saw dust everywhere, terrible glue smell. Plus, as a new guy, they are going to keep changing your shift every time a more senior guy needs time off. It might be 2nd shift one week, then switch to third shift if that's what they need. It's not worth "better benefits." I wouldn't work there for a million dollars a year. Are you sure you want to work there?"
Guy: "Yes, but I'm going to keep working here for a month and then I can work part time here, just like three hours a day."
Brother: "That's not going to work. When we are doing an install, I need guys who can be on-site 8 hours at predictable times in the morning with the crew. Plus, you are not keeping your word. If this is your plan, then you can just head home today, because it's not cost effective for me to keep training someone who's not going to be around."
My brother's a totally calm, reasonable guy. I doubt he raised his voice at all during that conversation. He absolutely does not need this guy working for him. Just tried to talk the guy out of it, then fired the guy on the spot once he realized the guy was dead set on his plan. While I hope I'm wrong, I've toured that mill, and I'd be surprised if they guy lasts as long at the mill as he did working for my brother. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you . . . when you don't have any food in your pantry.
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Wow. Just Wow.
Swanee.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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@Zamboni Crazy. Some people just can't be helped.
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I was thinking about the guy and his move to the mill more . . . the PNW where this is had that heat dome all summer.
My brother's employees have always worked 6 or 7 am to 2 or 3 pm, but he started letting them go at 1 pm if they wanted to bc it was so hot this summer. His shop does have AC in the office, but a lot of the work is outside loading the trailer or at job sites that don't have climate control on yet.
I'm sure that most days at 6-7 am they load the trailer to go to the job site for the installation. Then they drive to the site and unload it. If you can just agree to get your boss to agree to let YOU start at 10am, then they other employees do all the lifting and moving and all you have to do is meet them at the site and start drilling things into walls, putting in drawers and putting on doors, etc. (basically, the part that he's not good at . . . because he's unskilled.) A brilliant plan, amirite! Lol, no, that's just not going to fly.
So back to the mill: 100% chance the mill floor has been hot as the surface of the sun in the afternoons this summer. There is a reason they have 2nd shift openings. The fact that the guy suggested 10 am start time tells me that he doesn't like getting up early, and that's he's not swift enough to understand the afternoon heat factor in a lumber mill that has giant open doors all day for unloading the trees (process starts with literally tree trunks) where there will be grueling physical labor the entire shift until you are senior enough to be a manager or get one of the seated jobs, which he will never be because it takes like 20 years of paying dues.
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Wow, if there was ever a situation of "You can't afford to worry about someone else's problem more than they do," this is it.
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With regard to the post above by Zamboni about the guy who worked for the brother. 2 Lexus's and a Ford pick-up and $500.00 as their life savings in their mid-60's. This has to be one of the saddest situations I've seen on this thread.
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^^Yeah, I talked to my brother this morning and he said he was trying to help the guy, but he's actually relieved that he's gone now because new people always cost him money for awhile by slowing down the experienced people.
With regard to the post above by Zamboni about the guy who worked for the brother. 2 Lexus's and a Ford pick-up and $500.00 as their life savings in their mid-60's. This has to be one of the saddest situations I've seen on this thread.
Well, technically they could sell their vehicles and have some money (I think . . . depends upon "the bills", whatever those are.) It's a very LCOL area, so maybe that would put them better off than some people? His wife has never worked outside the home, which is fine, but it might be time for her to try to pitch in if she is capable of working? My brother's wife makes a substantial income running her own business, so he just can't relate.
From Forbes: "Among those closer to retirement, 17% of people aged 45 to 59 report a complete lack of retirement savings and that figure is 13% for those aged 60+."
I think this situation is a lot more common than we realize . . .
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And sadly, so many are quick to explain why that circumstance it is not their fault. The Man has always had his boot on their neck, dontcha know.
I used to be related to people like that. Hard to stay away from judgmental cynicism when their alternatives are so plentiful and obvious.
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My parents are in this boat - 60's no savings, maybe a $1000, only two vehicles though. Luckily they only owe on the house now after a DR course a few years back. Unfortunately they owe as much now as they did when they bought the place 25 years ago due to cash out refinancing a couple times. They are both planning on working part time (permanently) starting this winter also. Not really sure how that works.
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My parents are in this boat - 60's no savings, maybe a $1000, only two vehicles though. Luckily they only owe on the house now after a DR course a few years back. Unfortunately they owe as much now as they did when they bought the place 25 years ago due to cash out refinancing a couple times. They are both planning on working part time (permanently) starting this winter also. Not really sure how that works.
When they did the cash-out refis did they spend the cash on needless purchases?
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My parents are in this boat - 60's no savings, maybe a $1000, only two vehicles though. Luckily they only owe on the house now after a DR course a few years back. Unfortunately they owe as much now as they did when they bought the place 25 years ago due to cash out refinancing a couple times. They are both planning on working part time (permanently) starting this winter also. Not really sure how that works.
When they did the cash-out refis did they spend the cash on needless purchases?
Used it to pay off higher interest debt for the most part - pay off credit cards, pay off cars, personal loans for things like furniture, a hot tub, etc. So... yeah, basically to pay for an inflated lifestyle. Not like they got a big pile a cash and went out and blew it, but they racked up debt until the payments were unsustainable then refinance. Rinse and repeat as the housing boomed though the early 2000's. Their house just appraised for 2x more than they paid for it after a decade or so of stagnation. So... they have an opportunity, but I don't think they will do it again, hopefully.
ETA - they also did this with a business they owned. Sold the business for 3x what they paid for it after owning it for 15 years, but they owed 2.5x what they paid for it, so they only netted a small amount. They blew that on a 6-month long RV trip and paying off credit card debt, car loans, etc. same as above. Money was gone within a year.
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With regard to the post above by Zamboni about the guy who worked for the brother. 2 Lexus's and a Ford pick-up and $500.00 as their life savings in their mid-60's. This has to be one of the saddest situations I've seen on this thread.
Same, I kept cringing more and more as I read...
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With regard to the post above by Zamboni about the guy who worked for the brother. 2 Lexus's and a Ford pick-up and $500.00 as their life savings in their mid-60's. This has to be one of the saddest situations I've seen on this thread.
Same, I kept cringing more and more as I read...
But the mill has a 401k match and dental plan! We are all being too negative: I'm sure it will work out for him.
How much you want to bet that he doesn't even put in any 401K employee contribution and therefore doesn't get the employer match? I mean this guy has had jobs with those kind of benefits before . . . but yet no money . . . because "the bills".
It's sad. I've watched so many former colleagues "cash out" their retirement funds when they changed jobs. One of the places I worked pretty much everyone announced they were going to take the money as a lump sum and run when they left. Everyone always seemed really please to tell us all about it during their last two weeks. They had employer match as private stock for the 401K and also a separate pension plan that you could cash out if they valued it at less than a certain sizable amount. I can sort of see why they did it, as that ex-employer kept trying to get me to cash out the pension I have earned when I left. It's hard to resist having that much money . . . equivalent to a few months of pay . . . dangled in your face all at once. I said "no thanks, please just leave the pension in place," and then they pestered me several times afterwards by sending me letters. . . "looky, looky! Tens of thousands of dollars you can have RIGHT NOW! Why wait?! This is a limited time offer. Here are some ideas of what you could do: buy a car, buy a house, pay down debt. Don't you want a nice new car? If you don't cash out by X date, then you'll be stuck waiting for retirement age!"
Just their corporate enthusiasm for me cashing out made me skeptical. So, after making sure it was guaranteed and locked up tight legally so it won't be raided, I ran the numbers. Even giving myself generous market returns on the lump sum with reinvestment of returns in my spreadsheet, I discovered cashing out the pension was a terrible deal on paper. I did swap the employer stock in their 401K into index funds in my IRA.
So, no thanks, please just keep me and my little pension in your system. Once I hit 65 you can pay it until I die and, even after inflation, I'll always at least have the pension for grocery money. And even if I die before I can collect for the 5 year minimum of payments, my heirs still get it, and I will make sure that they know that it exists because it's all documented in my estate planning binder.
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Used it to pay off higher interest debt for the most part - pay off credit cards, pay off cars, personal loans for things like furniture, a hot tub, etc.
Loans for furniture is one thing I simply can't understand. If you don't have the money, just get some used. They often look like new and you get them for basically nothing. Not to mention that you can go quite well for a few month without until furniture until you have the money.
Well, I guess for people who don't undertand the concept of saving, that would not work either.
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With regard to the post above by Zamboni about the guy who worked for the brother. 2 Lexus's and a Ford pick-up and $500.00 as their life savings in their mid-60's. This has to be one of the saddest situations I've seen on this thread.
Same, I kept cringing more and more as I read...
But the mill has a 401k match and dental plan! We are all being too negative: I'm sure it will work out for him.
How much you want to bet that he doesn't even put in any 401K employee contribution and therefore doesn't get the employer match? I mean this guy has had jobs with those kind of benefits before . . . but yet no money . . . because "the bills".
It's sad. I've watched so many former colleagues "cash out" their retirement funds when they changed jobs. One of the places I worked pretty much everyone announced they were going to take the money as a lump sum and run when they left. Everyone always seemed really please to tell us all about it during their last two weeks. They had employer match as private stock for the 401K and also a separate pension plan that you could cash out if they valued it at less than a certain sizable amount. I can sort of see why they did it, as that ex-employer kept trying to get me to cash out the pension I have earned when I left. It's hard to resist having that much money . . . equivalent to a few months of pay . . . dangled in your face all at once. I said "no thanks, please just leave the pension in place," and then they pestered me several times afterwards by sending me letters. . . "looky, looky! Tens of thousands of dollars you can have RIGHT NOW! Why wait?! This is a limited time offer. Here are some ideas of what you could do: buy a car, buy a house, pay down debt. Don't you want a nice new car? If you don't cash out by X date, then you'll be stuck waiting for retirement age!"
Just their corporate enthusiasm for me cashing out made me skeptical. So, after making sure it was guaranteed and locked up tight legally so it won't be raided, I ran the numbers. Even giving myself generous market returns on the lump sum with reinvestment of returns in my spreadsheet, I discovered cashing out the pension was a terrible deal on paper. I did swap the employer stock in their 401K into index funds in my IRA.
So, no thanks, please just keep me and my little pension in your system. Once I hit 65 you can pay it until I die and, even after inflation, I'll always at least have the pension for grocery money. And even if I die before I can collect for the 5 year minimum of payments, my heirs still get it, and I will make sure that they know that it exists because it's all documented in my estate planning binder.
Zamboni, your description of how hard your former company pushed you to cash out your pension is really bad. I can see people being tempted to do it. ugh...
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Used it to pay off higher interest debt for the most part - pay off credit cards, pay off cars, personal loans for things like furniture, a hot tub, etc.
Loans for furniture is one thing I simply can't understand. If you don't have the money, just get some used. They often look like new and you get them for basically nothing. Not to mention that you can go quite well for a few month without until furniture until you have the money.
Well, I guess for people who don't undertand the concept of saving, that would not work either.
Yeah - last time they went shopping for a new mattress they came home with $10,000 worth of stuff on loan. Top of the line Temperpedic, motorized frame, motorized couch with LED lights, USB ports, and all that junk. Its sad really.
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Used it to pay off higher interest debt for the most part - pay off credit cards, pay off cars, personal loans for things like furniture, a hot tub, etc.
Loans for furniture is one thing I simply can't understand. If you don't have the money, just get some used. They often look like new and you get them for basically nothing. Not to mention that you can go quite well for a few month without until furniture until you have the money.
Well, I guess for people who don't undertand the concept of saving, that would not work either.
Decades ago it wasn‘t as obvious how cheap used furniture is, so my first kitchen furniture consisted of card board for two years.
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Used it to pay off higher interest debt for the most part - pay off credit cards, pay off cars, personal loans for things like furniture, a hot tub, etc.
Loans for furniture is one thing I simply can't understand. If you don't have the money, just get some used. They often look like new and you get them for basically nothing. Not to mention that you can go quite well for a few month without until furniture until you have the money.
Well, I guess for people who don't undertand the concept of saving, that would not work either.
I’ve taken advantage of several 0% offers for furniture. If you were already buying the furniture its free money
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Used it to pay off higher interest debt for the most part - pay off credit cards, pay off cars, personal loans for things like furniture, a hot tub, etc.
Loans for furniture is one thing I simply can't understand. If you don't have the money, just get some used. They often look like new and you get them for basically nothing. Not to mention that you can go quite well for a few month without until furniture until you have the money.
Well, I guess for people who don't undertand the concept of saving, that would not work either.
I’ve taken advantage of several 0% offers for furniture. If you were already buying the furniture its free money
As long as you're organized enough to pay it off before the no-interest period kicks in. I was looking at furniture recently and figured out that the easy payment plan they wanted to set up doesn't actually pay off the loan in time and all the accrued interest would kick in. This seems to be fairly common in the furniture financing realm.
My brother also has the high end bed, with payments to go with it. Plus a vacuum cleaner payment. And I'm pretty sure he's still paying for his wife's engagement ring. And a second mortgage taken out for renovations on the house. He definitely fell into the trap of thinking that if you can afford the payments you can afford the toy. Until he couldn't make the payments. That's why he's back at home with mom and dad. And still buying toys.
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Used it to pay off higher interest debt for the most part - pay off credit cards, pay off cars, personal loans for things like furniture, a hot tub, etc.
Loans for furniture is one thing I simply can't understand. If you don't have the money, just get some used. They often look like new and you get them for basically nothing. Not to mention that you can go quite well for a few month without until furniture until you have the money.
Well, I guess for people who don't undertand the concept of saving, that would not work either.
I’ve taken advantage of several 0% offers for furniture. If you were already buying the furniture its free money
As long as you're organized enough to pay it off before the no-interest period kicks in. I was looking at furniture recently and figured out that the easy payment plan they wanted to set up doesn't actually pay off the loan in time and all the accrued interest would kick in. This seems to be fairly common in the furniture financing realm.
My brother also has the high end bed, with payments to go with it. Plus a vacuum cleaner payment. And I'm pretty sure he's still paying for his wife's engagement ring. And a second mortgage taken out for renovations on the house. He definitely fell into the trap of thinking that if you can afford the payments you can afford the toy. Until he couldn't make the payments. That's why he's back at home with mom and dad. And still buying toys.
A friend of mine is a big spender / flashy type of guy new truck, BMW, boat, etc. etc. All debt payments. He told me once that crushing debt payments motivate him to be better salesman. So... if you are bored at work, consider getting a big loan on something that depreciates quickly. Nothing like pending doom to keep you motivated.
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Co-worker talking about his boat purchase since the beginning of summer. It was used so he tells us he got a good deal compared to buying something new (he never talks about the actual price). However, he bought it at the start of summer when used prices were at their peek. He has shared pictures and it is a nice cruiser with sleeping/living area on the bottom deck. It took a long time for him to get a docking spot at a local marina. So far the only time he has driven his boat was to park it at the dock at marina. During this he had major issues controlling it (large boat he is not used to driving). Smartly he is paying for some one on one training to get used to operating his boat. Most of the summer has gone by and that one on one training still hasn't happened. His weekend plans for boating trips have been replaced with cleaning, and doing maintenance and replacing parts while it docked. I hope he get the training and is able to get one or two weekends out on the water before having to put it in winter storage.
I think his experience with boat ownership matches this definition.
(https://svmahi.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/154-lg.jpg?w=760)
I can't help but think the amount of money he has sunk into this boat and the future ongoing costs would pay for multiple a luxury cruises with no maintenance or stress of boat ownership. Of course covid has really ruined the cruising industry and I would not want to be floating on a boat with hundreds of strangers these days.....
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As they say, the two happiest days in a boat owner's life are the day they buy a boat and the day they sell it!
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And as my uncle likes to say, "BOAT" stands for "Bring Out Another Thousand."
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It was used so he tells us he got a good deal compared to buying something new (he never talks about the actual price).
Are purchases ever a good deal when phrased that way? That seems like the flip side to "If you have to ask, you can't afford it"
You tell me what you bought it for. Let me decide if it was a good deal or not. ;)
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So today at work one of my coworkers was expressing their discontent with a recent situation they found themselves in with our employer. His wife tested positive for COVID, and as a result he had to quarantine until 7 days after she stopped showing symptoms / received a negative test result.
Because this particular coworker is unvaccinated, my employer did not grant them paid leave for their quarantine. They were given the option of either using their accrued vacation time, or not getting paid for their time in quarantine. They chose to use up all of their vacation time for the year (which they just received in August), rather than going without pay.
I don't want to focus on the decision made by the company (I'm sure some will/won't agree with it), what I want to focus on is the reason my coworker gave for making this decision:
"I can't afford to go 5 days without pay."
I know this person very well. We've worked together for 5 years. I've been to their house on multiple occasions; it's a six bedroom mini-mansion with big marble columns out front. In his massive paved driveway sits his recently bought 2018 Ford Raptor (a premium package truck that he financed for a cool $50k), alongside his wife's big fancy SUV. I know what he makes in a year, and have a pretty good guess as to how much his wife makes. Together they're pulling in at least $150k annually.
"I can't afford to go 5 days without pay."
The words hit me like a ton of bricks. How do you find yourself in a position like that? Living in a big fancy house, driving big fancy cars, making 2-3x the median household income, yet unable to make ends meet if half of your household income stops coming in for *5 days*?!?!
I know that the obvious answer is the big bad lifestyle inflation. I just still can't wrap my head around how many people have the means to be financially free and secure, but instead choose to chain themselves down with exorbitant spending and debt-income ratios. Or how they manage to do all of this while never stopping to consider that "Hey, maybe I should sit aside a few G's just in case something crazy happens."
I can't wrap my head around it.
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I would be having an anxiety attack at all times if I was 5 days away from disaster all the time.
In their defense, I often say, “i cannot afford to take unpaid time off” - but what I mean is, “I am not FI yet” or, “my employer doesn’t offer unpaid time off, and 20% of my income is a performance bonus”
But yeah, 5 days is rough. I could take off for a couple decades and I’m stressed because it’s not 7+ decades.
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I would be a nervous wreck too. Cannot afford 5 days? I never was in that situation even when on social security.
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I find people mean a lot of things when they say "can't afford." Sometimes it just means "doesn't fit with my cash flow plans." I have a SIL who stresses enough over taking money out of the emergency fund as to give the impression that this thing is a financial burden, even if she is still meeting her goals.
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I find people mean a lot of things when they say "can't afford." Sometimes it just means "doesn't fit with my cash flow plans." I have a SIL who stresses enough over taking money out of the emergency fund as to give the impression that this thing is a financial burden, even if she is still meeting her goals.
Correct. Sometimes it’s as simple as “I’m not willing to take money out of savings for that.”
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"I can't afford to go 5 days without pay."
He's paycheck to paycheck. He's trying to do the mental math of how to make current month's roof and ride payments. Mini-mansion and Raptor may imply there's no savings each month, possible there isn't any retirement fund contributions.
I've had a co-worker or two at every employer who lives high on the hog. Colleagues tell spendypants to save, in vain. And then kingdom comes. Life is good until you realize you're getting screwed but can't afford lube.
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I've had a co-worker or two at every employer who lives high on the hog. Colleagues tell spendypants to save, in vain. And then kingdom comes. Life is good until you realize you're getting screwed but can't afford lube.
Some people just gotta, Gotta, GOTTA learn things the hard way to learn them at all.
I post obits of unvaccinated people who believed Covid was a hoax on Facebook multiple times a week. Probably equally in vain. Some of them don't even catch on in the ICU while they're dying from it.
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Okay I've never had a story absurd enough to share with this forum, but I got a doozy today.
My coworker recently got married, and he and his wife are expecting a baby next spring. Yay, good for them! A different coworker informed me that they sold their old house (a 1500 sq ft 3bed/2bath) and moved into a 3000+ 4 bed/3bath.
Me: "Wow, that seems kind of insane. Their old house had 3 bedrooms"
Her: "But they're having a BABY"
Me, who lives in a 700 sq ft 2 bed/1bath with my husband and 1 year-old: "Um, 3 bedrooms seems plenty for a married couple and a baby."
Her: "Well, maybe for YOU"
Me: "......................"
It makes me so annoyed, and nobody seems to understand why I think it was a terrible decision. Their old place was in a quiet neighborhood directly across the street from a park. Their new location mandates driving to work and it's at the intersection of 2 major roads. People value the strangest things.
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And I want to add also - I think it's actually easier to have a baby in a smaller house. We went to my inlaws place which is a 2500+ with 2 levels, and there was soo much climbing up and down stairs. And you couldn't hear the baby from the other side of the house to monitor for naps. Meanwhile, our current place is about 25 steps wide total, and you can hear the baby from anywhere in the house. Different priorities I guess.
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And I want to add also - I think it's actually easier to have a baby in a smaller house. We went to my inlaws place which is a 2500+ with 2 levels, and there was soo much climbing up and down stairs. And you couldn't hear the baby from the other side of the house to monitor for naps. Meanwhile, our current place is about 25 steps wide total, and you can hear the baby from anywhere in the house. Different priorities I guess.
And so much more to clean when you already have new tasks to learn!
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And I want to add also - I think it's actually easier to have a baby in a smaller house. We went to my inlaws place which is a 2500+ with 2 levels, and there was soo much climbing up and down stairs. And you couldn't hear the baby from the other side of the house to monitor for naps. Meanwhile, our current place is about 25 steps wide total, and you can hear the baby from anywhere in the house. Different priorities I guess.
Wait…you think that’s a good thing??
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And I want to add also - I think it's actually easier to have a baby in a smaller house. We went to my inlaws place which is a 2500+ with 2 levels, and there was soo much climbing up and down stairs. And you couldn't hear the baby from the other side of the house to monitor for naps. Meanwhile, our current place is about 25 steps wide total, and you can hear the baby from anywhere in the house. Different priorities I guess.
Wait…you think that’s a good thing??
fwiw I concur that it’s a good thing
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The "maybe for you" comment strikes me as aggressive and judgmental, like it should be followed with "ya cheap a**.". But it is gossipy no matter which side you're own so maybe she was feeling defensive on a friend's behalf.
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And I want to add also - I think it's actually easier to have a baby in a smaller house. We went to my inlaws place which is a 2500+ with 2 levels, and there was soo much climbing up and down stairs. And you couldn't hear the baby from the other side of the house to monitor for naps. Meanwhile, our current place is about 25 steps wide total, and you can hear the baby from anywhere in the house. Different priorities I guess.
Agreed.
My mother lived in a massive 7 bedroom farmhouse when her 3 kids were rugrats. She said that we were always under her feet, dragging our toys into the kitchen to play, and when they moved into a <1000 sq ft house, it was no different - always underfoot. She only felt the need to move out of that house once we got into our preteens - once we were more "adult-sized" she felt like she needed more space.
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And I want to add also - I think it's actually easier to have a baby in a smaller house. We went to my inlaws place which is a 2500+ with 2 levels, and there was soo much climbing up and down stairs. And you couldn't hear the baby from the other side of the house to monitor for naps. Meanwhile, our current place is about 25 steps wide total, and you can hear the baby from anywhere in the house. Different priorities I guess.
Wait…you think that’s a good thing??
fwiw I concur that it’s a good thing
Yeah I mean I guess it depends on your situation. Yes, it's good to have space to get away from an inconsolable screaming newborn so you don't go insane. When I felt like I was going to snap I handed him to his dad and went outside to take deep breaths. Now he's one, he's generally a pretty happy baby, and I can go wash dishes while he's napping and know that when he wakes up I'll be able to hear him right away. If I need to focus while Dad has him I put on some headphones and play white noise. My point is that you don't need an enormous house to be able to escape your kids.
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We started Covid in a 1700 sq ft split level.
We currently live in a 3000sq ft house + 1500 sq ft basement because the four of us living, working, and learning together in a small space is completely untenable.
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And I want to add also - I think it's actually easier to have a baby in a smaller house. We went to my inlaws place which is a 2500+ with 2 levels, and there was soo much climbing up and down stairs. And you couldn't hear the baby from the other side of the house to monitor for naps. Meanwhile, our current place is about 25 steps wide total, and you can hear the baby from anywhere in the house. Different priorities I guess.
Wait…you think that’s a good thing??
fwiw I concur that it’s a good thing
We had my newborn daughter in a house with a basement in Ohio, and it was such a relief to be able to take that screaming baby into the basement so her mother could roll up a few hours of sleep.
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And I want to add also - I think it's actually easier to have a baby in a smaller house. We went to my inlaws place which is a 2500+ with 2 levels, and there was soo much climbing up and down stairs. And you couldn't hear the baby from the other side of the house to monitor for naps. Meanwhile, our current place is about 25 steps wide total, and you can hear the baby from anywhere in the house. Different priorities I guess.
Wait…you think that’s a good thing??
fwiw I concur that it’s a good thing
We had my newborn daughter in a house with a basement in Ohio, and it was such a relief to be able to take that screaming baby into the basement so her mother could roll up a few hours of sleep.
Earplugs exist
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And I want to add also - I think it's actually easier to have a baby in a smaller house. We went to my inlaws place which is a 2500+ with 2 levels, and there was soo much climbing up and down stairs. And you couldn't hear the baby from the other side of the house to monitor for naps. Meanwhile, our current place is about 25 steps wide total, and you can hear the baby from anywhere in the house. Different priorities I guess.
Wait…you think that’s a good thing??
fwiw I concur that it’s a good thing
We had my newborn daughter in a house with a basement in Ohio, and it was such a relief to be able to take that screaming baby into the basement so her mother could roll up a few hours of sleep.
Earplugs exist
They don't work for everyone, never have for me
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I know this person very well. We've worked together for 5 years. I've been to their house on multiple occasions; it's a six bedroom mini-mansion with big marble columns out front. In his massive paved driveway sits his recently bought 2018 Ford Raptor (a premium package truck that he financed for a cool $50k), alongside his wife's big fancy SUV. I know what he makes in a year, and have a pretty good guess as to how much his wife makes. Together they're pulling in at least $150k annually.
I find the idea of spending that much on housing and trucks on $150k/year in HH salary pretty frightening. We're a little ahead of that and share a single 8-year-old station wagon...throwing a $50k used monster truck into the mix would keep me up at night.
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I know this person very well. We've worked together for 5 years. I've been to their house on multiple occasions; it's a six bedroom mini-mansion with big marble columns out front. In his massive paved driveway sits his recently bought 2018 Ford Raptor (a premium package truck that he financed for a cool $50k), alongside his wife's big fancy SUV. I know what he makes in a year, and have a pretty good guess as to how much his wife makes. Together they're pulling in at least $150k annually.
I find the idea of spending that much on housing and trucks on $150k/year in HH salary pretty frightening. We're a little ahead of that and share a single 8-year-old station wagon...throwing a $50k used monster truck into the mix would keep me up at night.
Say what you will about the Raptor, but generally you can turn around and unload them for as much or more than you paid for them. I have a very well off friend who has had two, a first Gen and a second Gen and he traded in the first Gen (paid off) for something crazy like $5-10k less than he paid for it 3 years and 30k or something miles earlier. Second Gen cost him like $20k (cash) out the door.
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We started Covid in a 1700 sq ft split level.
We currently live in a 3000sq ft house + 1500 sq ft basement because the four of us living, working, and learning together in a small space is completely untenable.
Covid led us to increase our home size as well. We're in the process of moving from 750sqft to 1250. I'm going to feel like a king in that place!
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Say what you will about the Raptor, but generally you can turn around and unload them for as much or more than you paid for them. I have a very well off friend who has had two, a first Gen and a second Gen and he traded in the first Gen (paid off) for something crazy like $5-10k less than he paid for it 3 years and 30k or something miles earlier. Second Gen cost him like $20k (cash) out the door.
Ah yes, the wave your arms and ignore certain facts method of accounting for stupid toy rationalization.
Porsche guys do this all the time.
But most of them are lying. They paid over MSRP for the dumb toy, which is why it's still selling for close to MSRP now. They often "forget" about this when tying to impress us.
But hey, even if they are being honest- it still ignores a couple of things they absolutely never mention.
-Sales tax on that new expensive car. Even if he's only $20k out of pocket, he's still paying tax on the purchase price.
-Insurance on brand new "hot" cars.
-The opportunity cost of parking all that money in a toy.
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Say what you will about the Raptor, but generally you can turn around and unload them for as much or more than you paid for them. I have a very well off friend who has had two, a first Gen and a second Gen and he traded in the first Gen (paid off) for something crazy like $5-10k less than he paid for it 3 years and 30k or something miles earlier. Second Gen cost him like $20k (cash) out the door.
So, his capital cost for access to a car (ignoring driving costs and insurance costs) was about $10k plus insurance and taxes for a new car for 3 years. Let's assume he repeats that for 12 years, so it costs him around $50k for all of that.
For $55k, I bought a slightly used car AND a complete rental house, and put in another $5k in repairs, which profits me by $5k a year. Did pretty much the same thing with my wife's car, too.
I like my way of buying cars better. :)
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Say what you will about the Raptor, but generally you can turn around and unload them for as much or more than you paid for them. I have a very well off friend who has had two, a first Gen and a second Gen and he traded in the first Gen (paid off) for something crazy like $5-10k less than he paid for it 3 years and 30k or something miles earlier. Second Gen cost him like $20k (cash) out the door.
Ah yes, the wave your arms and ignore certain facts method of accounting for stupid toy rationalization.
Porsche guys do this all the time.
But most of them are lying. They paid over MSRP for the dumb toy, which is why it's still selling for close to MSRP now. They often "forget" about this when tying to impress us.
But hey, even if they are being honest- it still ignores a couple of things they absolutely never mention.
-Sales tax on that new expensive car. Even if he's only $20k out of pocket, he's still paying tax on the purchase price.
-Insurance on brand new "hot" cars.
-The opportunity cost of parking all that money in a toy.
So angry.
Sales tax was minimal, in IL (at the time) you paid the difference between the purchase price and trade in price. So if you buy a truck for $70k but have a trade in for $55k, you’re only paying ($70k - $55k = $15k * 8.25% = $1250). Not nothing, but not that big a deal.
Insurance on like for like is minimal. I just turned in a leased $45k Jeep and leased a new $60k Jeep; my insurance went up $8 on my 6-mo premium ($500).
Opportunity cost, yes, that is certainly valid.
My point is just the Raptor is not a great purchase BUT if one needs to they can get out of it for close to what they paid. They don’t lose a lot on depreciation.
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Say what you will about the Raptor, but generally you can turn around and unload them for as much or more than you paid for them. I have a very well off friend who has had two, a first Gen and a second Gen and he traded in the first Gen (paid off) for something crazy like $5-10k less than he paid for it 3 years and 30k or something miles earlier. Second Gen cost him like $20k (cash) out the door.
So, his capital cost for access to a car (ignoring driving costs and insurance costs) was about $10k plus insurance and taxes for a new car for 3 years. Let's assume he repeats that for 12 years, so it costs him around $50k for all of that.
For $55k, I bought a slightly used car AND a complete rental house, and put in another $5k in repairs, which profits me by $5k a year. Did pretty much the same thing with my wife's car, too.
I like my way of buying cars better. :)
Life’s all about choices. He and his wife own a successful dental practice, including the strip mall it’s in that they collect rent on from other tenants. He’s not blowing all his money on cars.
My point is simply that you see “$55k truck = huge money sump” and there’s more nuance than that.
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A dentist who owns a strip mall and a raptor. This is pretty much everything wrong with the world in one stereotype.
So tell me about his McMansion. :D
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A dentist who owns a strip mall and a raptor. This is pretty much everything wrong with the world in one stereotype.
So tell me about his McMansion. :D
Dude must sell a lot of $100 fluoride treatments
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A dentist who owns a strip mall and a raptor. This is pretty much everything wrong with the world in one stereotype.
So tell me about his McMansion. :D
Dude must sell a lot of $100 fluoride treatments
Or maybe does Botox on the side? I knew a dentist who did that for pocket money.
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A dentist who owns a strip mall and a raptor. This is pretty much everything wrong with the world in one stereotype.
So tell me about his McMansion. :D
Dude must sell a lot of $100 fluoride treatments
Or maybe does Botox on the side? I knew a dentist who did that for pocket money.
Nothing wrong with a strip mall, sounds like Mustachian real estate.
The Raptor ? if it is this one.... then OK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SpaceX_sea-level_Raptor_at_Hawthorne_-_2.jpgRaptor
Botox?
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/vx-nerve-agent
Botulinum toxin is reported to be the most toxic substance known. Comparatively, it is 10–15,000 times more toxic than VX nerve agent.
markbike528cbx's calculation says Botulinum toxin is 4,000 times more toxic than VX nerve gas (source Merck Index).
Fun fact: Umatilla Army Depot, in worry-range of my house, once had enough VX and other toxins to give everyone on the planet 4000 lethal doses (if somehow distributed as single lethal capsules).
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I just turned in a leased $45k Jeep and leased a new $60k Jeep
You should have just led with that, would have saved the rest of us a lot of reading.
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I just turned in a leased $45k Jeep and leased a new $60k Jeep
You should have just led with that, would have saved the rest of us a lot of reading.
Meh. I got the PHEV Jeep. I actually want to own it long term, but it’s brand new tech from Chrysler so I’m wary of how well they made it. I’m going to treat my lease as a long test drive, and if it proves unreliable, I’ll give it back. If it’s reliable, I’ll buy it out. I don’t trust them enough to buy it from the get go.
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And yes, it is true that trucks tend to hold their value better than cars. It's also true that the cost of ownership is substantially higher for them.
They're considerably less fuel efficient, their parts are more expensive, and the initial purchase price is generally about twice what you'd pay for a car of the same year, mileage, and condition.
Never mind the fact that most of the people who buy "fancy" trucks don't even use them for what they're designed for. Trucks are meant to be work-horses, and they're meant to take a beating. If your truck never leaves the pavement and never hauls anywhere near its towing capacity, it's a big dumb waste of money. Even more so if you go with short bed / extended cab options or lift kits, all of which make a truck worse at being a truck.
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I just turned in a leased $45k Jeep and leased a new $60k Jeep
You should have just led with that, would have saved the rest of us a lot of reading.
Those suburban malls ain't gonna crawl themselves.
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A dentist who owns a strip mall and a raptor. This is pretty much everything wrong with the world in one stereotype.
So tell me about his McMansion. :D
Dude must sell a lot of $100 fluoride treatments
Or maybe does Botox on the side? I knew a dentist who did that for pocket money.
Nothing wrong with a strip mall, sounds like Mustachian real estate.
The Raptor ? if it is this one.... then OK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SpaceX_sea-level_Raptor_at_Hawthorne_-_2.jpgRaptor
Botox?
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/vx-nerve-agent
Botulinum toxin is reported to be the most toxic substance known. Comparatively, it is 10–15,000 times more toxic than VX nerve agent.
markbike528cbx's calculation says Botulinum toxin is 4,000 times more toxic than VX nerve gas (source Merck Index).
Fun fact: Umatilla Army Depot, in worry-range of my house, once had enough VX and other toxins to give everyone on the planet 4000 lethal doses (if somehow distributed as single lethal capsules).
Botox the cosmetic treatment :) https://www.botoxcosmetic.com/
Makes people look unnaturally wrinkle-free.
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I just turned in a leased $45k Jeep and leased a new $60k Jeep
You should have just led with that, would have saved the rest of us a lot of reading.
Those suburban malls ain't gonna crawl themselves.
I’m in the woods with it working right now (lunch break)
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Say what you will about the Raptor, but generally you can turn around and unload them for as much or more than you paid for them. I have a very well off friend who has had two, a first Gen and a second Gen and he traded in the first Gen (paid off) for something crazy like $5-10k less than he paid for it 3 years and 30k or something miles earlier. Second Gen cost him like $20k (cash) out the door.
So, his capital cost for access to a car (ignoring driving costs and insurance costs) was about $10k plus insurance and taxes for a new car for 3 years. Let's assume he repeats that for 12 years, so it costs him around $50k for all of that.
For $55k, I bought a slightly used car AND a complete rental house, and put in another $5k in repairs, which profits me by $5k a year. Did pretty much the same thing with my wife's car, too.
I like my way of buying cars better. :)
Life’s all about choices. He and his wife own a successful dental practice, including the strip mall it’s in that they collect rent on from other tenants. He’s not blowing all his money on cars.
My point is simply that you see “$55k truck = huge money sump” and there’s more nuance than that.
Eesh. Never thought I'd see the day when I saw someone defending driving one of those things. Dangerous for other road users and horribly inefficient at both carrying people and hauling, what's not to hate?
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A dentist who owns a strip mall and a raptor. This is pretty much everything wrong with the world in one stereotype.
So tell me about his McMansion. :D
Dude must sell a lot of $100 fluoride treatments
Or maybe does Botox on the side? I knew a dentist who did that for pocket money.
Nothing wrong with a strip mall, sounds like Mustachian real estate.
The Raptor ? if it is this one.... then OK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SpaceX_sea-level_Raptor_at_Hawthorne_-_2.jpgRaptor
Botox?
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/vx-nerve-agent
Botulinum toxin is reported to be the most toxic substance known. Comparatively, it is 10–15,000 times more toxic than VX nerve agent.
markbike528cbx's calculation says Botulinum toxin is 4,000 times more toxic than VX nerve gas (source Merck Index).
Fun fact: Umatilla Army Depot, in worry-range of my house, once had enough VX and other toxins to give everyone on the planet 4000 lethal doses (if somehow distributed as single lethal capsules).
Botox the cosmetic treatment :) https://www.botoxcosmetic.com/
Makes people look unnaturally wrinkle-free.
The slide before / after pics on there are great! hahaha people need to relax.
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The slide before / after pics on there are great! hahaha people need to relax.
"Alright, make sure you scowl as hard as you can for the 'before' picture!"
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A dentist who owns a strip mall and a raptor. This is pretty much everything wrong with the world in one stereotype.
So tell me about his McMansion. :D
Dude must sell a lot of $100 fluoride treatments
Or maybe does Botox on the side? I knew a dentist who did that for pocket money.
Nothing wrong with a strip mall, sounds like Mustachian real estate.
The Raptor ? if it is this one.... then OK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SpaceX_sea-level_Raptor_at_Hawthorne_-_2.jpgRaptor
Botox?
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/vx-nerve-agent
Botulinum toxin is reported to be the most toxic substance known. Comparatively, it is 10–15,000 times more toxic than VX nerve agent.
markbike528cbx's calculation says Botulinum toxin is 4,000 times more toxic than VX nerve gas (source Merck Index).
Fun fact: Umatilla Army Depot, in worry-range of my house, once had enough VX and other toxins to give everyone on the planet 4000 lethal doses (if somehow distributed as single lethal capsules).
Botox the cosmetic treatment :) https://www.botoxcosmetic.com/
Makes people look unnaturally wrinkle-free.
I think Aventine, gets the joke, but for others:
Botox the cosmetic treatment IS Botulinum toxin!
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The slide before / after pics on there are great! hahaha people need to relax.
"Alright, make sure you scowl as hard as you can for the 'before' picture!"
Is there some small percentage of people who’s faces get stuck like that and actually need this type of treatment to correct it? Is that what this website is attempting to demonstrate?
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@markbike528CBX oh yes, I remember one of my favorite uncles, a dermatologist, explaining that to me a long time ago. It was pretty funny when he Botoxed my dad (his brother) for free a couple of years back. It made a huge difference in his face!
But the wrinkles came back after some months because my dad is usually a scowler and doesn't really take care of his health. Oh well. At least it was free.
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But the wrinkles came back after some months because my dad is usually a scowler and doesn't really take care of his health.
A dear friend said something to me years ago that really resonated.
At 18 you have the face you were born with.
At 40 you have the face you have made.
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Botox can be useful medically, too. A friend (in his 30’s) had a throat problem - swallowing was painful and difficult. He had a Botox injection that helped, both in confirming the cause of the problem and a temporary fix.
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I have a friend who is prone to frequent debilitating migraines. Botox injections have given her back her life.
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But the wrinkles came back after some months because my dad is usually a scowler and doesn't really take care of his health.
A dear friend said something to me years ago that really resonated.
At 18 you have the face you were born with.
At 40 you have the face you have made.
And if you live in Southern Calif then at 50 plus you have the face that Dr. 90210 made ;-).
@SwordGuy oh, I agree with you, 100%.
Here is my dad's Botox backstory:
My dad would normally never had agreed to the Botox, except he was down and depressed at the time. He had just lost his wife (my mother) to whom he was married for 32 years. Mom died at the age of 50 from an extremely aggressive form of cancer. It was harrowing for all her caregivers (my dad, me and my two sisters). We were run ragged, and we all looked it.
Dad took it the hardest after Mom died. So his dermatologist brother had the idea to give him Botox (on top of a lot of other professional dermatology treatments) to help him feel better about himself. All of us thought it was fine, especially as this uncle of ours had been there for Dad every step of the way: emotionally, physically, and financially, from Mom's diagnosis until her death.
The derma treatments worked (temporarily). But since Dad didn't really change any of his habits, and didn't go back for touch-ups, he eventually went back to how he normally looked.
As for me, I'll stick to my Mustachian anti-aging routine: a healthy diet, regular exercise, no alcohol, and a generally happy disposition in life. Oh, and sunscreen. Lots and lots of sunscreen.
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On a more topical note:
My brother owns his own construction business and he hired a new guy during the pandemic. It's complicated, skilled labor (custom cabinetry for commercial jobs.) The new guy was normal retirement age and wasn't skilled in construction trades, but he lives in a small town and they needed the money, and my brother was swamped with work coming out of the pandemic shutdown and needed cabinet installers, so he figured he would train him.
Brother was a little worried that the guy wouldn't stick around long enough for it to be worth his effort to train him because he was changing careers from something white collar. So, he asked the guy for his word that he would stay for at least a year. "Of course," he said, "I plan to work 2-3 more years and will stay in this job if you take a chance on hiring me."
Most of his employees are much younger, so my brother thought it would be good to have some more senior, hopefully more mature people on the jobs to set good examples. Installers earn the prevailing wage for each job, which is typically $28-$40 per hour, plus expenses if the install is out of town. The first month of work the new guy made $40/hr for the entire month, even though he didn't know how to do anything job-related and was basically just following the other employees around.
Once he started working, my brother became amazed at how bad he was with money. He said he is temporarily living with his own FIL (who must be in his 90's) ostensibly to save money, but he reports he can't make ends meet. Yet he drives a Lexus SUV, his wife drives a big new Lexus sedan, and, the hilarious kicker: in addition to these they own both a diesel F350 pickup and a gigantic RV. It wouldn't matter, I suppose, except they are so short of money that his wife literally drives to work on payday twice a month to pick up his check for bank deposit while he is still at work. He explained to my brother that she does this because otherwise they can't make it to the next day. Apparently they are always very behind on "the bills." And he reports that they only have $500 as their lifetime savings . . . in their mid-60's. . . and that they keep having to "dip into it for grocery money." So my brother was like "well, living with your FIL and making $40/hr, hopefully you'll be able to get ahead with your savings a bit now."
One of the times he was complaining about "the bills" and how he just can't get ahead, my brother, trying to be friendly and help the guy, asked "well, maybe you could sell the RV so things aren't so tight?" to which the guy said "oh, no, we are fixing that up to live in it full time so we don't have to keep living in my FIL's house." So then my brother said "ok, well, maybe you could sell one of the other cars? It doesn't seem like you really use the truck . .
I never understood the appeal of an RV. Like it you can afford an RV, you can probably afford a $50k house that is actually pretty nice in a LCOL. From an aspirational perspective, like cool you are gonna travel the US of A and not be able to park any place cool and have some crappy RV parking lot. Might as well take the. Savings from not paying for 8 miles per gallon and just pay for a hotel near where you want to go. Price is the same.
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I never understood the appeal of an RV. Like it you can afford an RV, you can probably afford a $50k house that is actually pretty nice in a LCOL. From an aspirational perspective, like cool you are gonna travel the US of A and not be able to park any place cool and have some crappy RV parking lot. Might as well take the. Savings from not paying for 8 miles per gallon and just pay for a hotel near where you want to go. Price is the same.
I understand the emotional appeal, but yeah, it doesn't stand up to any numerical scrutiny. Certainly the large RV never makes financial sense, and even a van conversion has a really hard time breaking even. If you bought a used work van for $10k and spent another couple thousand converting it, that'll pay for a whole lotta nights in a hotel, even before you consider the gas mileage, plus you've spent a whole lot of your own time in the conversion.
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Some of us prefer life on wheels. I don't want to be tied down to a sticks.and bricks home ever again.
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Some of us prefer life on wheels. I don't want to be tied down to a sticks.and bricks home ever again.
If you're full-time RVing, sure! It's the vast majority of RV owners who have both a house and an RV for whom the economics don't make sense.
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Some of us prefer life on wheels. I don't want to be tied down to a sticks.and bricks home ever again.
Renting solves that problem. Give notice and go.
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Some of us prefer life on wheels. I don't want to be tied down to a sticks.and bricks home ever again.
Renting solves that problem. Give notice and go.
Still need to deal with the furniture, unless you are renting furnished.
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I'm totally onboard with living on the road. I might do it myself, but I'd prefer a small travel trailer (Airstream Basecamp 16 ish-sized) so that my house never breaks down.
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There are pros and cons to each type of RV. Everyone has to figure out their own sweet spot. I will likely change up as time goes by. Living in an RV that is easier than changing houses because the size or location doesn't fit anymore.
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Some of us prefer life on wheels. I don't want to be tied down to a sticks.and bricks home ever again.
Renting solves that problem. Give notice and go.
Still need to deal with the furniture, unless you are renting furnished.
Plus many rentals require a years lease. With an RV you really can just pick up and go anytime. I'm not an RV person myself but can see the advantages if you are full timing - or even part timing but gone on extended trips - compared to owning or renting a place. I prefer an inexpensive basic non-converted small 4 cylinder cargo van myself (and/or just a tent and co.pact car) with a mix of camping and short term house rentals or budget motels, but RVs do seem to offer a lot of flexibility at what can be a low cost if buying an older RV and staying put in one area awhile so not driving often.
OK I know I sound stupid. But if I was traveling, a combination of open layout van with tent sounds preferable than a big trailer with kitchen, bathroom, etc with all the hookups. But if you travel van life,How do you go to the bathroom, bath, brush teeth, wash face etc? do you just use gas station bathrooms, etc? Use an improvised set up?
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There are pros and cons to each type of RV. Everyone has to figure out their own sweet spot. I will likely change up as time goes by. Living in an RV that is easier than changing houses because the size or location doesn't fit anymore.
I lived in a 32' Class C motorhome with my wife, 2 daughters, and dog from the beginning of Feb '21 to the end of July '21. I took an unpaid sabbatical since the girls were hating remote learning anyway, and we toured the western half of the US. They were really excited to get back to our house and friends, but I could have continued like that for years. They do have lots of little problems (so do travel trailers), but I was not bothered at all by the small space, smaller bed, bathroom, shower, stove, etc. It's just a matter of getting used to what you have.
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Some of us prefer life on wheels. I don't want to be tied down to a sticks.and bricks home ever again.
Renting solves that problem. Give notice and go.
Still need to deal with the furniture, unless you are renting furnished.
Plus many rentals require a years lease. With an RV you really can just pick up and go anytime. I'm not an RV person myself but can see the advantages if you are full timing - or even part timing but gone on extended trips - compared to owning or renting a place. I prefer an inexpensive basic non-converted small 4 cylinder cargo van myself (and/or just a tent and co.pact car) with a mix of camping and short term house rentals or budget motels, but RVs do seem to offer a lot of flexibility at what can be a low cost if buying an older RV and staying put in one area awhile so not driving often.
OK I know I sound stupid. But if I was traveling, a combination of open layout van with tent sounds preferable than a big trailer with kitchen, bathroom, etc with all the hookups. But if you travel van life,How do you go to the bathroom, bath, brush teeth, wash face etc? do you just use gas station bathrooms, etc? Use an improvised set up?
Most vans have facilities. Cassette toilets and composting are probably the most popular, as neither requires a dump station. But there are some who choose to build without or even remove existing facilities and rely on public bathrooms and a shovel.
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What is the the most minimal set up that is user friendly?.composting toilet. Gravity fed shower? What about kitchen facilities? Seems a mini fridge with some kind of burner, microwave make life a lot more pleasant. Tank for water?
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Check out Bob Wells Cheap RV Living youtube channel. There are folks living in subcompact cars, somewhat comfortably.
A lot of folks with no built in facilities in their car/van use a privacy tent with either a bucket and kitty litter or other cover and a garden sprayer and catch basin for showers. A truck stop shower every week or so to feel better. Some use wipes or other solutions marketed for bedridden patients.
Exited to add:
Saw the rest of the questions. The 12 V fridges from China have come down in price so that is cheaper than buying ice. Some kind of power generation, such as a Jackery or home designed version, to charge electronics and run the fridge. A two burner butane or dual fuel stove, making coffee warms the place up in the morning, just use ventilation. Jugs of water and some kind of jug to catch the dirty water. Check the YouTube channel for some examples of just how minimal one can go and still be relatively comfortable. The sweet spot of size and facilities is different for each person.
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As a slight aside, when I think about building out a utility trailer I always keep the Laveo dry flush toilets (https://dry-flush.com/product-category/dryflush/) in mind. Especially since I might not need it very often when staying in national parks, which would be my goal for going houseless.
EDITed to add - and there is nothing stopping you from running a propane water heater but plumbing your shower outside of the trailer.
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Thanks for the comments. It looks like there are ways to travel with a little more comfort, for not too much money.
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As a slight aside, when I think about building out a utility trailer I always keep the Laveo dry flush toilets (https://dry-flush.com/product-category/dryflush/) in mind. Especially since I might not need it very often when staying in national parks, which would be my goal for going houseless.
EDITed to add - and there is nothing stopping you from running a propane water heater but plumbing your shower outside of the trailer.
A sit on diaper genie?
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I moderate product reviews for a living, and I just had one for a yearly budget planner. The reviewer rated it low because they thought it had too many pages for Savings and too few for Debts! There were 8 pages of Savings and 7 pages of Debts. They said the average person doesn't have that many things to save for in their lifetime and has more debts than they can save for. Plus there were even separate pages for credit cards and student loans, so those didn't have to be on the Debts pages. I just felt so bad for them.
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I moderate product reviews for a living, and I just had one for a yearly budget planner. The reviewer rated it low because they thought it had too many pages for Savings and too few for Debts! There were 8 pages of Savings and 7 pages of Debts. They said the average person doesn't have that many things to save for in their lifetime and has more debts than they can save for. Plus there were even separate pages for credit cards and student loans, so those didn't have to be on the Debts pages. I just felt so bad for them.
OMG! How the hell can you need more than 8 pages of debt?
I would have a hard time to come up with 8 lines even if I started buying stuff for 0%! (I actually tried this when I moves 2 years ago, but it was so much hassle it was not worth the trouble for 200-300€ each. It might have been worth the trouble when Corona struck half a year later and then stocks dropped, but by then I already had everything. Since I finished moving I use about 200€ for household stuff in those 2 years. My monthly free budget - after 30% minimum savings of course.)
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A Planet Fitness membership is a go-to for access to bathrooms and showers, plus weights!
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My DH works fixing problems for a high end resort complex. Situations where clients can't get the toilet to flush, TV remote won't work, the shower won't turn on, shower won't turn off) Normal stuff. One evening he got a call that the residents couldn't get out of the garage. Turns out they had two Teslas plugged into the wall outlet in the garage. With orange extension cords. One plugged into the top plug, the other plugged into the bottom plug. Overloaded the breaker, shut off power to the garage door. Couldn't be reset from inside the unit. Breaker box is in a separate room.
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My DH works fixing problems for a high end resort complex. Situations where clients can't get the toilet to flush, TV remote won't work, the shower won't turn on, shower won't turn off) Normal stuff. One evening he got a call that the residents couldn't get out of the garage. Turns out they had two Teslas plugged into the wall outlet in the garage. With orange extension cords. One plugged into the top plug, the other plugged into the bottom plug. Overloaded the breaker, shut off power to the garage door. Couldn't be reset from inside the unit. Breaker box is in a separate room.
I think they got lucky nothing caught on fire. And lucky they live somewhere that has someone to rescue them.
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My DH works fixing problems for a high end resort complex. Situations where clients can't get the toilet to flush, TV remote won't work, the shower won't turn on, shower won't turn off) Normal stuff. One evening he got a call that the residents couldn't get out of the garage. Turns out they had two Teslas plugged into the wall outlet in the garage. With orange extension cords. One plugged into the top plug, the other plugged into the bottom plug. Overloaded the breaker, shut off power to the garage door. Couldn't be reset from inside the unit. Breaker box is in a separate room.
I've never seen a garage door that didn't have a way to open the door in case of power outage. Sounds like a double case of more dollars than sense...
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There are pros and cons to each type of RV. Everyone has to figure out their own sweet spot. I will likely change up as time goes by. Living in an RV that is easier than changing houses because the size or location doesn't fit anymore.
This is true, however the downside of that extra flexibility, at least from the one couple I know who have lived full time in an RV for the last 8 years, is that they have gone through 5 RVs in those 8 years adapting to whatever best suit them at the time. Honestly, buying, learning all the maintenance and ins and outs, then selling 5 different RVs over that time sounds kind of exhausting. Also, it cost a lot more than they expected going to RV life because of constant changes in the RVs. They sold their house at I think ~400k 8 years ago, but that house has gone up to at least 700k in those 8 years. Meanwhile their RVs have been mostly between 40-70k, and mostly sold close to what they bought them for, but they’ve usually put 5-10k into each one of them in upgrades/solar/repairs/skirting etc so they probably burnt well over 50k in depreciation/transaction cost in 8 years
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My DH works fixing problems for a high end resort complex. Situations where clients can't get the toilet to flush, TV remote won't work, the shower won't turn on, shower won't turn off) Normal stuff. One evening he got a call that the residents couldn't get out of the garage. Turns out they had two Teslas plugged into the wall outlet in the garage. With orange extension cords. One plugged into the top plug, the other plugged into the bottom plug. Overloaded the breaker, shut off power to the garage door. Couldn't be reset from inside the unit. Breaker box is in a separate room.
I've never seen a garage door that didn't have a way to open the door in case of power outage. Sounds like a double case of more dollars than sense...
You are spot on. As a semi-handy engineer guy, I am amazed at things like this.
Now if the garage spring broke - that is a problem. Overloading a circuit, losing power to the opener and you can’t find the manual release handle? Wow.
Full disclosure - I am an electrical engineer.
SwaneeSR.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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the garage door release was right there. Mebbe it was dark. This is the same caliber of people a month ago who called him because they couldn't get the toilet to flush. Not a gravity flush, a pressurized system. It just needed to recharge.
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My DH works fixing problems for a high end resort complex. Situations where clients can't get the toilet to flush, TV remote won't work, the shower won't turn on, shower won't turn off) Normal stuff. One evening he got a call that the residents couldn't get out of the garage. Turns out they had two Teslas plugged into the wall outlet in the garage. With orange extension cords. One plugged into the top plug, the other plugged into the bottom plug. Overloaded the breaker, shut off power to the garage door. Couldn't be reset from inside the unit. Breaker box is in a separate room.
Reminds me of an attorney my wife used to work with.
This woman lived in a fancy high-end apartment in San Francisco right next to the Giants stadium. She relied on food delivery apps for every single meal. Apparently, there were several days that she was very panicked because she couldn't get food. I think she even skipped some meals.
The reason?
With a Giants game traffic, the delivery drivers couldn't get through to her apartment.
There was literally a 24hr Safeway on the ground floor of the building she was living in.
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My DH works fixing problems for a high end resort complex. Situations where clients can't get the toilet to flush, TV remote won't work, the shower won't turn on, shower won't turn off) Normal stuff. One evening he got a call that the residents couldn't get out of the garage. Turns out they had two Teslas plugged into the wall outlet in the garage. With orange extension cords. One plugged into the top plug, the other plugged into the bottom plug. Overloaded the breaker, shut off power to the garage door. Couldn't be reset from inside the unit. Breaker box is in a separate room.
Reminds me of an attorney my wife used to work with.
This woman lived in a fancy high-end apartment in San Francisco right next to the Giants stadium. She relied on food delivery apps for every single meal. Apparently, there were several days that she was very panicked because she couldn't get food. I think she even skipped some meals.
The reason?
With a Giants game traffic, the delivery drivers couldn't get through to her apartment.
There was literally a 24hr Safeway on the ground floor of the building she was living in.
I...what? Why on earth wouldn't she just grocery shop like a normal person? I can't imagine feeling that dependent on food deliveries, that seems awful.
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My DH works fixing problems for a high end resort complex. Situations where clients can't get the toilet to flush, TV remote won't work, the shower won't turn on, shower won't turn off) Normal stuff. One evening he got a call that the residents couldn't get out of the garage. Turns out they had two Teslas plugged into the wall outlet in the garage. With orange extension cords. One plugged into the top plug, the other plugged into the bottom plug. Overloaded the breaker, shut off power to the garage door. Couldn't be reset from inside the unit. Breaker box is in a separate room.
Reminds me of an attorney my wife used to work with.
This woman lived in a fancy high-end apartment in San Francisco right next to the Giants stadium. She relied on food delivery apps for every single meal. Apparently, there were several days that she was very panicked because she couldn't get food. I think she even skipped some meals.
The reason?
With a Giants game traffic, the delivery drivers couldn't get through to her apartment.
There was literally a 24hr Safeway on the ground floor of the building she was living in.
I...what? Why on earth wouldn't she just grocery shop like a normal person? I can't imagine feeling that dependent on food deliveries, that seems awful.
I would not want to hire a lawyer that can’t figure out how to get food and gets panicked over it!
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My DH works fixing problems for a high end resort complex. Situations where clients can't get the toilet to flush, TV remote won't work, the shower won't turn on, shower won't turn off) Normal stuff. One evening he got a call that the residents couldn't get out of the garage. Turns out they had two Teslas plugged into the wall outlet in the garage. With orange extension cords. One plugged into the top plug, the other plugged into the bottom plug. Overloaded the breaker, shut off power to the garage door. Couldn't be reset from inside the unit. Breaker box is in a separate room.
Reminds me of an attorney my wife used to work with.
This woman lived in a fancy high-end apartment in San Francisco right next to the Giants stadium. She relied on food delivery apps for every single meal. Apparently, there were several days that she was very panicked because she couldn't get food. I think she even skipped some meals.
The reason?
With a Giants game traffic, the delivery drivers couldn't get through to her apartment.
There was literally a 24hr Safeway on the ground floor of the building she was living in.
I...what? Why on earth wouldn't she just grocery shop like a normal person? I can't imagine feeling that dependent on food deliveries, that seems awful.
I would not want to hire a lawyer that can’t figure out how to get food and gets panicked over it!
"Don't call a man a fool, borrow money from him."
The modern corollary seems to be:
"Teach a lawyer to fish and she'll never call to have you deliver food to their door again."
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My DH works fixing problems for a high end resort complex. Situations where clients can't get the toilet to flush, TV remote won't work, the shower won't turn on, shower won't turn off) Normal stuff. One evening he got a call that the residents couldn't get out of the garage. Turns out they had two Teslas plugged into the wall outlet in the garage. With orange extension cords. One plugged into the top plug, the other plugged into the bottom plug. Overloaded the breaker, shut off power to the garage door. Couldn't be reset from inside the unit. Breaker box is in a separate room.
Reminds me of an attorney my wife used to work with.
This woman lived in a fancy high-end apartment in San Francisco right next to the Giants stadium. She relied on food delivery apps for every single meal. Apparently, there were several days that she was very panicked because she couldn't get food. I think she even skipped some meals.
The reason?
With a Giants game traffic, the delivery drivers couldn't get through to her apartment.
There was literally a 24hr Safeway on the ground floor of the building she was living in.
I...what? Why on earth wouldn't she just grocery shop like a normal person? I can't imagine feeling that dependent on food deliveries, that seems awful.
I would not want to hire a lawyer that can’t figure out how to get food and gets panicked over it!
"Don't call a man a fool, borrow money from him."
The modern corollary seems to be:
"Teach a lawyer to fish and she'll never call to have you deliver food to their door again."
Could be an issue with billable time, maybe making a meal and shopping are not worth it to her.
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Reminds me of an attorney my wife used to work with.
This woman lived in a fancy high-end apartment in San Francisco right next to the Giants stadium. She relied on food delivery apps for every single meal. Apparently, there were several days that she was very panicked because she couldn't get food. I think she even skipped some meals.
The reason?
With a Giants game traffic, the delivery drivers couldn't get through to her apartment.
There was literally a 24hr Safeway on the ground floor of the building she was living in.
Ooh, I smell a sweet side hustle! If you lived in the same building, you could sign up to be an Instacart shopper and then she could hire you to take the elevator down to Safeway and pick up cooked food from the deli counter or salad bar.
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Reminds me of an attorney my wife used to work with.
This woman lived in a fancy high-end apartment in San Francisco right next to the Giants stadium. She relied on food delivery apps for every single meal. Apparently, there were several days that she was very panicked because she couldn't get food. I think she even skipped some meals.
The reason?
With a Giants game traffic, the delivery drivers couldn't get through to her apartment.
There was literally a 24hr Safeway on the ground floor of the building she was living in.
Ooh, I smell a sweet side hustle! If you lived in the same building, you could sign up to be an Instacart shopper and then she could hire you to take the elevator down to Safeway and pick up cooked food from the deli counter or salad bar.
Or cut out the middleman app and just work out a private arrangement directly with the neighbor!
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A Planet Fitness membership is a go-to for access to bathrooms and showers, plus weights!
Is this something your coworker said? It seems likely as not to be mustachian - for example, if they're biking to work and showering at a PF that's walking distance from work. If PF's signs can be believed, I think membership is like $19/month.
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A Planet Fitness membership is a go-to for access to bathrooms and showers, plus weights!
Is this something your coworker said? It seems likely as not to be mustachian - for example, if they're biking to work and showering at a PF that's walking distance from work. If PF's signs can be believed, I think membership is like $19/month.
It's a common van life thing, cheap access to shower and bathroom near wherever you park your home
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A Planet Fitness membership is a go-to for access to bathrooms and showers, plus weights!
Is this something your coworker said? It seems likely as not to be mustachian - for example, if they're biking to work and showering at a PF that's walking distance from work. If PF's signs can be believed, I think membership is like $19/month.
It's a common van life thing, cheap access to shower and bathroom near wherever you park your home
19$ gets you in at any PF, and you can bring a friend (or spouse) with you unlimited times. Pretty great deal.
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My DH works fixing problems for a high end resort complex. Situations where clients can't get the toilet to flush, TV remote won't work, the shower won't turn on, shower won't turn off) Normal stuff. One evening he got a call that the residents couldn't get out of the garage. Turns out they had two Teslas plugged into the wall outlet in the garage. With orange extension cords. One plugged into the top plug, the other plugged into the bottom plug. Overloaded the breaker, shut off power to the garage door. Couldn't be reset from inside the unit. Breaker box is in a separate room.
Reminds me of an attorney my wife used to work with.
This woman lived in a fancy high-end apartment in San Francisco right next to the Giants stadium. She relied on food delivery apps for every single meal. Apparently, there were several days that she was very panicked because she couldn't get food. I think she even skipped some meals.
The reason?
With a Giants game traffic, the delivery drivers couldn't get through to her apartment.
There was literally a 24hr Safeway on the ground floor of the building she was living in.
I...what? Why on earth wouldn't she just grocery shop like a normal person? I can't imagine feeling that dependent on food deliveries, that seems awful.
Probably because she could expense the food delivery to her clients, but not groceries
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My DH works fixing problems for a high end resort complex. Situations where clients can't get the toilet to flush, TV remote won't work, the shower won't turn on, shower won't turn off) Normal stuff. One evening he got a call that the residents couldn't get out of the garage. Turns out they had two Teslas plugged into the wall outlet in the garage. With orange extension cords. One plugged into the top plug, the other plugged into the bottom plug. Overloaded the breaker, shut off power to the garage door. Couldn't be reset from inside the unit. Breaker box is in a separate room.
Reminds me of an attorney my wife used to work with.
This woman lived in a fancy high-end apartment in San Francisco right next to the Giants stadium. She relied on food delivery apps for every single meal. Apparently, there were several days that she was very panicked because she couldn't get food. I think she even skipped some meals.
The reason?
With a Giants game traffic, the delivery drivers couldn't get through to her apartment.
There was literally a 24hr Safeway on the ground floor of the building she was living in.
I...what? Why on earth wouldn't she just grocery shop like a normal person? I can't imagine feeling that dependent on food deliveries, that seems awful.
Probably because she could expense the food delivery to her clients, but not groceries
As a coworker of my wife, I can confirm that this was not something that could be expensed, or in any way related to work.
For those thinking of a side-hustle, I can confirm that the price of these apartments would be a major detractor for anyone that has a thought of saving money.
In fact, given the demographics of the neighborhood, I’d be surprised if there was a tenant in that building capable of changing a light bulb.
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In fact, given the demographics of the neighborhood, I’d be surprised if there was a tenant in that building capable of changing a light bulb.
So if you can cook your own food, you are probably not going to be high society, sorry.
Changing your own lightbulbs? Destine for the middle class life.
Change your own oil and brake pads? .... ouch ... food stamps it is.
The DIY life is a god damn lie!
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In fact, given the demographics of the neighborhood, I’d be surprised if there was a tenant in that building capable of changing a light bulb.
So if you can cook your own food, you are probably not going to be high society, sorry.
Changing your own lightbulbs? Destine for the middle class life.
Change your own oil and brake pads? .... ouch ... food stamps it is.
The DIY life is a god damn lie!
I remember back when Pres Bush the first was sent out to do photo and video ops to show he was just "a regular guy" and not some rich elite. So he went to a grocery store to buy groceries and was totally mystified by the early 1990s "high tech" check out counter. Didn't have a clue of what to do.
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I remember back when Pres Bush the first was sent out to do photo and video ops to show he was just "a regular guy" and not some rich elite. So he went to a grocery store to buy groceries and was totally mystified by the early 1990s "high tech" check out counter. Didn't have a clue of what to do.
You might want to double check that story. As is so often the case, a tiny fragment of the actual event got pulled out of context and used to construct a narrative that had no basis in fact (https://apnews.com/article/george-hw-bush-north-america-us-news-newspapers-politics-61f29d10e27140b0b108d8e12b64b839):
The New York Times’ front-page account carried the headline: “Bush Encounters the Supermarket, Amazed.”
But although Bush had remarked that some of the machine’s features seemed “amazing,” it hardly looked like his first time in a supermarket checkout line. ... Reporters later learned that it was a special scanner with advanced features, including a scale to weigh produce — uncommon then — and the ability to read barcodes even if they were torn up and jumbled.
Considering the difficulty I occasionally experience with barcode scanners at the self-checkout registers nearly thirty years later, a scanner that could read mangled barcodes back in 1992 would indeed be amazing.
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I remember back when Pres Bush the first was sent out to do photo and video ops to show he was just "a regular guy" and not some rich elite. So he went to a grocery store to buy groceries and was totally mystified by the early 1990s "high tech" check out counter. Didn't have a clue of what to do.
You might want to double check that story. As is so often the case, a tiny fragment of the actual event got pulled out of context and used to construct a narrative that had no basis in fact (https://apnews.com/article/george-hw-bush-north-america-us-news-newspapers-politics-61f29d10e27140b0b108d8e12b64b839):
The New York Times’ front-page account carried the headline: “Bush Encounters the Supermarket, Amazed.”
But although Bush had remarked that some of the machine’s features seemed “amazing,” it hardly looked like his first time in a supermarket checkout line. ... Reporters later learned that it was a special scanner with advanced features, including a scale to weigh produce — uncommon then — and the ability to read barcodes even if they were torn up and jumbled.
Considering the difficulty I occasionally experience with barcode scanners at the self-checkout registers nearly thirty years later, a scanner that could read mangled barcodes back in 1992 would indeed be amazing.
That was back when the crazeee conspiracy theorists were convinced that bar codes were the mark of SATAN.
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I remember back when Pres Bush the first was sent out to do photo and video ops to show he was just "a regular guy" and not some rich elite. So he went to a grocery store to buy groceries and was totally mystified by the early 1990s "high tech" check out counter. Didn't have a clue of what to do.
You might want to double check that story. As is so often the case, a tiny fragment of the actual event got pulled out of context and used to construct a narrative that had no basis in fact (https://apnews.com/article/george-hw-bush-north-america-us-news-newspapers-politics-61f29d10e27140b0b108d8e12b64b839):
The New York Times’ front-page account carried the headline: “Bush Encounters the Supermarket, Amazed.”
But although Bush had remarked that some of the machine’s features seemed “amazing,” it hardly looked like his first time in a supermarket checkout line. ... Reporters later learned that it was a special scanner with advanced features, including a scale to weigh produce — uncommon then — and the ability to read barcodes even if they were torn up and jumbled.
Considering the difficulty I occasionally experience with barcode scanners at the self-checkout registers nearly thirty years later, a scanner that could read mangled barcodes back in 1992 would indeed be amazing.
That was back when the crazeee conspiracy theorists were convinced that bar codes were the mark of SATAN.
Everyone knows Satan fucked with barcodes long before he invented RFID chips and nanobot laden vaccines. Everyone evolves, even Satan.
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I remember back when Pres Bush the first was sent out to do photo and video ops to show he was just "a regular guy" and not some rich elite. So he went to a grocery store to buy groceries and was totally mystified by the early 1990s "high tech" check out counter. Didn't have a clue of what to do.
You might want to double check that story. As is so often the case, a tiny fragment of the actual event got pulled out of context and used to construct a narrative that had no basis in fact (https://apnews.com/article/george-hw-bush-north-america-us-news-newspapers-politics-61f29d10e27140b0b108d8e12b64b839):
The New York Times’ front-page account carried the headline: “Bush Encounters the Supermarket, Amazed.”
But although Bush had remarked that some of the machine’s features seemed “amazing,” it hardly looked like his first time in a supermarket checkout line. ... Reporters later learned that it was a special scanner with advanced features, including a scale to weigh produce — uncommon then — and the ability to read barcodes even if they were torn up and jumbled.
Considering the difficulty I occasionally experience with barcode scanners at the self-checkout registers nearly thirty years later, a scanner that could read mangled barcodes back in 1992 would indeed be amazing.
That was back when the crazeee conspiracy theorists were convinced that bar codes were the mark of SATAN.
Everyone knows Satan fucked with barcodes long before he invented RFID chips and nanobot laden vaccines. Everyone evolves, even Satan.
Random fact: The Swedish navy puts barcodes on all of their ships.
That way, when they get back to port, they can Scandinavian.
I'll see myself out.
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Random fact: The Swedish navy puts barcodes on all of their ships.
That way, when they get back to port, they can Scandinavian.
I'll see myself out.
Booooooo! (but really, that was a good one)
The "Share your stupid jokes" thread is over here (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/tell-me-your-stupid-jokes/), and this one would make a fantastic contribution.
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After a colleague was asking about my return from a 6-month unpaid RV sabbatical, I finished with telling her that our workplace now has a policy that would allow her to do this, too. In the same conversation, she also dropped that she's hoping to retire early (by age 50ish).
Next she tells me that she and her DH are searching for a new house for them and their DD toddler, that their current 3100 square foot house is simply too small, and they definitely need 3,800 sf, minimum!
Seems like an opportunity to define your actual priorities by your actions, right?
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I’m curious how people use that much space. Are they in snowbound regions where you can’t go outside six months out of the year?
We recently moved into a house around 3000ft^2 including finished basement. We don’t use the basement pretty much ever unless guests come (hopefully it will get much more use in a post-Covid future). One bedroom in the main house is never used. Another is an office because Covid WFH. And we still have oodles of space.
Oh yeah, and we have three kids.
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A Planet Fitness membership is a go-to for access to bathrooms and showers, plus weights!
Is this something your coworker said? It seems likely as not to be mustachian - for example, if they're biking to work and showering at a PF that's walking distance from work. If PF's signs can be believed, I think membership is like $19/month.
It's a common van life thing, cheap access to shower and bathroom near wherever you park your home
19$ gets you in at any PF, and you can bring a friend (or spouse) with you unlimited times. Pretty great deal.
Rural Iceland is the best for this: every village has a swimming pool heated by geothermal power (oh, the joy of living on an active magma hotspot). They usually cost ~2 dollars for adults, and are free for children. Nothing beats starting the day by doing a few laps, and then learning the new gossip from the locals in the heitapottur.
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I’m curious how people use that much space. Are they in snowbound regions where you can’t go outside six months out of the year?
We recently moved into a house around 3000ft^2 including finished basement. We don’t use the basement pretty much ever unless guests come (hopefully it will get much more use in a post-Covid future). One bedroom in the main house is never used. Another is an office because Covid WFH. And we still have oodles of space.
Oh yeah, and we have three kids.
We’re in a similar size/kids combination to you, and we use every bit of our space. I wouldn’t mind having more, but that would mean extra heating, cleaning, furnishing, exterior care, etc., so we will stick with what we have. 3,000+ sf is already pretty luxurious.
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Rural Iceland is the best for this: every village has a swimming pool heated by geothermal power (oh, the joy of living on an active magma hotspot). They usually cost ~2 dollars for adults, and are free for children. Nothing beats starting the day by doing a few laps, and then learning the new gossip from the locals in the heitapottur.
Really? Until covid changed my habits, I swam pretty much every workday morning for about 10 years. And it was the least social thing ever. I think it was maybe 18 months of seeing eachother at the pool before my dentist and I recognized eachother in his usual professional context. :D
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I’m curious how people use that much space. Are they in snowbound regions where you can’t go outside six months out of the year?
We recently moved into a house around 3000ft^2 including finished basement. We don’t use the basement pretty much ever unless guests come (hopefully it will get much more use in a post-Covid future). One bedroom in the main house is never used. Another is an office because Covid WFH. And we still have oodles of space.
Oh yeah, and we have three kids.
We’re in a similar size/kids combination to you, and we use every bit of our space. I wouldn’t mind having more, but that would mean extra heating, cleaning, furnishing, exterior care, etc., so we will stick with what we have. 3,000+ sf is already pretty luxurious.
We're in 2600 sf with our 2 kids, and have 4 rooms we hardly ever set foot in. We are in an area that gets really cold (upper Midwest), but I guess we just stay in a smaller footprint. I grew up in a house almost exactly the same size, but with 2 more kids.
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Yesterday, in the break room, overheard an IT team lead/manager telling someone that he has a boat with 32 hours on the engine, and wants to sell it, potentially to the other person, willing to knock down the price. He paid about $50k, he's willing to sell for $44k to the other guy. It costs him $200-250/mo keeping it in a dry dock, since he doesn't want to spend $2500 on a boat trailer, which would mean buying a truck with sufficient towing capacity. The dock/marina keeps the boat ready for him when he calls ahead of time, and when he returns, he gets to use their facilities to wash and rinse it, and they store it away. Other guy doesn't want to buy it because "no trailer". Seller said his wife got tired of the day long boat cruising.
I walked out of there as soon as my lunch was heated up and filled up my water bottle, not wanting to be pitched the sale. (I know nothing about boats, trailers, docks, marinas, etc. And then insurance, because this is Florida.)
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I’m curious how people use that much space. Are they in snowbound regions where you can’t go outside six months out of the year?
We recently moved into a house around 3000ft^2 including finished basement. We don’t use the basement pretty much ever unless guests come (hopefully it will get much more use in a post-Covid future). One bedroom in the main house is never used. Another is an office because Covid WFH. And we still have oodles of space.
Oh yeah, and we have three kids.
We’re in a similar size/kids combination to you, and we use every bit of our space. I wouldn’t mind having more, but that would mean extra heating, cleaning, furnishing, exterior care, etc., so we will stick with what we have. 3,000+ sf is already pretty luxurious.
We're in 2600 sf with our 2 kids, and have 4 rooms we hardly ever set foot in. We are in an area that gets really cold (upper Midwest), but I guess we just stay in a smaller footprint. I grew up in a house almost exactly the same size, but with 2 more kids.
We have 1500 sf, about to have kid 2… I’ve told DH I can’t live in a place any bigger than this. I think I’ll probably break the brain of a real estate agent when we are next looking for a house. “No, no, I meant UNDER 1500 sf, UNDER.” I can’t even keep this amount of space tidy and clean. The mess expands to fit the space you have.
Meanwhile my dad recently sold the 4,500 McMansion we grew up in. That place was a real mess when we lived in it.
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Yesterday, in the break room, overheard an IT team lead/manager telling someone that he has a boat with 32 hours on the engine, and wants to sell it, potentially to the other person, willing to knock down the price. He paid about $50k, he's willing to sell for $44k to the other guy. It costs him $200-250/mo keeping it in a dry dock, since he doesn't want to spend $2500 on a boat trailer, which would mean buying a truck with sufficient towing capacity. The dock/marina keeps the boat ready for him when he calls ahead of time, and when he returns, he gets to use their facilities to wash and rinse it, and they store it away. Other guy doesn't want to buy it because "no trailer". Seller said his wife got tired of the day long boat cruising.
I walked out of there as soon as my lunch was heated up and filled up my water bottle, not wanting to be pitched the sale. (I know nothing about boats, trailers, docks, marinas, etc. And then insurance, because this is Florida.)
It's not fair to make fun of boat people. It must be unfortunate to be born with that large of a blind spot.
Full disclosure: I'm sort of a boat person. I regularly cruise the craigslist boat section looking for a good deal on a sea kayak. Now that we're well into the boating off-season, you can smell the desperation in the ads for the larger, hard to store, maintenance intensive money pits.
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Yesterday, in the break room, overheard an IT team lead/manager telling someone that he has a boat with 32 hours on the engine, and wants to sell it, potentially to the other person, willing to knock down the price. He paid about $50k, he's willing to sell for $44k to the other guy. It costs him $200-250/mo keeping it in a dry dock, since he doesn't want to spend $2500 on a boat trailer, which would mean buying a truck with sufficient towing capacity. The dock/marina keeps the boat ready for him when he calls ahead of time, and when he returns, he gets to use their facilities to wash and rinse it, and they store it away. Other guy doesn't want to buy it because "no trailer". Seller said his wife got tired of the day long boat cruising.
I walked out of there as soon as my lunch was heated up and filled up my water bottle, not wanting to be pitched the sale. (I know nothing about boats, trailers, docks, marinas, etc. And then insurance, because this is Florida.)
It's not fair to make fun of boat people. It must be unfortunate to be born with that large of a blind spot.
Full disclosure: I'm sort of a boat person. I regularly cruise the craigslist boat section looking for a good deal on a sea kayak. Now that we're well into the boating off-season, you can smell the desperation in the ads for the larger, hard to store, maintenance intensive money pits.
Opinion: wanting a kayak doesn't make you a boat person in the same way that owning a bike doesn't make you a car person. Also I definitely laughed at your blind spot comment.
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Yesterday, in the break room, overheard an IT team lead/manager telling someone that he has a boat with 32 hours on the engine, and wants to sell it, potentially to the other person, willing to knock down the price. He paid about $50k, he's willing to sell for $44k to the other guy. It costs him $200-250/mo keeping it in a dry dock, since he doesn't want to spend $2500 on a boat trailer, which would mean buying a truck with sufficient towing capacity. The dock/marina keeps the boat ready for him when he calls ahead of time, and when he returns, he gets to use their facilities to wash and rinse it, and they store it away. Other guy doesn't want to buy it because "no trailer". Seller said his wife got tired of the day long boat cruising.
I walked out of there as soon as my lunch was heated up and filled up my water bottle, not wanting to be pitched the sale. (I know nothing about boats, trailers, docks, marinas, etc. And then insurance, because this is Florida.)
It's not fair to make fun of boat people. It must be unfortunate to be born with that large of a blind spot.
Full disclosure: I'm sort of a boat person. I regularly cruise the craigslist boat section looking for a good deal on a sea kayak. Now that we're well into the boating off-season, you can smell the desperation in the ads for the larger, hard to store, maintenance intensive money pits.
I didn't make fun of boat seller. I cringed in the break room hearing that conversation.
I was talking to the boat seller today; it seems that his wife told him to buy a boat because she enjoyed it, and now she doesn't. The twist is that it is getting cooler and more pleasant to be out on a boat in Florida in the cooler months. He did it to make her happy, he's actually a very nice guy. They've lived in Florida only a couple of years, and it seems the wife is missing the seasonal weather of where they lived "up north". She thought boating is something you do only for the summer. A tragicomedy is what he called it.
I enjoy other people's boats. I help out by providing drinks/water/food/gas money.
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Employer recently began teasing at an across the board pay increase, in an effort to remain competitive against other local employers. We've been having a hard time hiring new employees since COVID, and current employees have been flocking to a higher paying employer in the area that offers higher starting wages (but insane schedules as well, often working 14+ days without a day off).
IMO we were already being pretty generously compensated. I've been living comfortably and saving about 50% of my take home for the last couple years, and had already decided I'll be fine even if I never see another raise until reaching FI some time in the next ~10 years. We've always been one of the highest paying jobs in the area, especially for entry level positions.
About a week ago I was in the break room with a few coworkers who were discussing rumors of how much the raise might be. Everyone was pitching what they expected to get, and what they felt was the minimum acceptable amount for a raise (completely arbitrary numbers just based on what they "felt they deserved"). When asked for my input, I simply shrugged and said "Honestly, I'm already happy with what I'm making. A raise of any amount is just gravy at this point, I really don't care too much one way or the other."
The reactions I got were less than pleasant, bordering on downright hostile. "You'd better not talk them out of giving the rest of us a raise!" one coworker exclaimed. "Well some of us like having money!" said another. I'm almost certain that I have more in the bank than the four of them combined, though they all certainly have me beat in consumer debt by a wide margin.
The amount of the raise was announced yesterday, and everyone is going to be getting about an extra $10k a year. That amounts to about a 15-20% increase for most of my coworkers, and makes us the highest paying employer in the county for entry level / unskilled labor. The feedback I've been hearing from people suggests that many still don't find this adequate, and can't imagine how an extra $10k in their annual pay could possibly make a difference in their lives.
Part of me wants to make a spreadsheet breaking down the broader ramifications of this raise, but part of me also knows I shouldn't bother.
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Employer recently began teasing at an across the board pay increase, in an effort to remain competitive against other local employers. We've been having a hard time hiring new employees since COVID, and current employees have been flocking to a higher paying employer in the area that offers higher starting wages (but insane schedules as well, often working 14+ days without a day off).
IMO we were already being pretty generously compensated. I've been living comfortably and saving about 50% of my take home for the last couple years, and had already decided I'll be fine even if I never see another raise until reaching FI some time in the next ~10 years. We've always been one of the highest paying jobs in the area, especially for entry level positions.
About a week ago I was in the break room with a few coworkers who were discussing rumors of how much the raise might be. Everyone was pitching what they expected to get, and what they felt was the minimum acceptable amount for a raise (completely arbitrary numbers just based on what they "felt they deserved"). When asked for my input, I simply shrugged and said "Honestly, I'm already happy with what I'm making. A raise of any amount is just gravy at this point, I really don't care too much one way or the other."
The reactions I got were less than pleasant, bordering on downright hostile. "You'd better not talk them out of giving the rest of us a raise!" one coworker exclaimed. "Well some of us like having money!" said another. I'm almost certain that I have more in the bank than the four of them combined, though they all certainly have me beat in consumer debt by a wide margin.
The amount of the raise was announced yesterday, and everyone is going to be getting about an extra $10k a year. That amounts to about a 15-20% increase for most of my coworkers, and makes us the highest paying employer in the county for entry level / unskilled labor. The feedback I've been hearing from people suggests that many still don't find this adequate, and can't imagine how an extra $10k in their annual pay could possibly make a difference in their lives.
Part of me wants to make a spreadsheet breaking down the broader ramifications of this raise, but part of me also knows I shouldn't bother.
Ha! Send the complainers my way. I'm told my job hasn't done a real raise for my kind of work in 10 years (I've only worked there for 5). Plus $10k is nearly how much I make in a year, albeit I'm less than part time and have very flexible hours. Though you do need a bachelors, so we're not quite entry level.
$10k a year more would shave years off our FIRE timeline. They need to expand their imaginations.
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I've got one: was visiting a military base last week, one of the guys there noticed a all-the-bells-and-whistles Escalade driving by and expressed his desire for one, at an eye-watering price of $135,000 (they *start* at $76,000!). Apparently the instrument panel is one giant, custom-shaped OLED display.
I remarked that "Dang, that cost more than our first house!"
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I've got one: was visiting a military base last week, one of the guys there noticed a all-the-bells-and-whistles Escalade driving by and expressed his desire for one, at an eye-watering price of $135,000 (they *start* at $76,000!). Apparently the instrument panel is one giant, custom-shaped OLED display.
I remarked that "Dang, that cost more than our first house!"
I remember a Drill Sergeant in basic training had an Escalade. Now he has a prison cell. He was doing a bunch of shady stuff like charging Soldier $50 to make a phone call (we normally got 1 chance a week for a 2-minute call on a payphone) or having his Soldiers sell candy to Soldiers in other units. When he started putting hands on Soldiers and taking money to provide a passing score on the physical fitness test that was when someone finally turned him in. When I came back the next year for advanced training some of the guys who were in his platoon got pulled aside to provide sworn statements and potentially testifying against him. So he want from a comfortable living to being busted down to private and going to Leavenworth prison.
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I remember a Drill Sergeant in basic training had an Escalade. Now he has a prison cell. He was doing a bunch of shady stuff like charging Soldier $50 to make a phone call (we normally got 1 chance a week for a 2-minute call on a payphone) or having his Soldiers sell candy to Soldiers in other units. When he started putting hands on Soldiers and taking money to provide a passing score on the physical fitness test that was when someone finally turned him in. When I came back the next year for advanced training some of the guys who were in his platoon got pulled aside to provide sworn statements and potentially testifying against him. So he want from a comfortable living to being busted down to private and going to Leavenworth prison.
[/quote]
That is ONE EXPENSIVE Escalade!
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I've got one: was visiting a military base last week, one of the guys there noticed a all-the-bells-and-whistles Escalade driving by and expressed his desire for one, at an eye-watering price of $135,000 (they *start* at $76,000!). Apparently the instrument panel is one giant, custom-shaped OLED display.
I remarked that "Dang, that cost more than our first house!"
I remember a Drill Sergeant in basic training had an Escalade. Now he has a prison cell. He was doing a bunch of shady stuff like charging Soldier $50 to make a phone call (we normally got 1 chance a week for a 2-minute call on a payphone) or having his Soldiers sell candy to Soldiers in other units. When he started putting hands on Soldiers and taking money to provide a passing score on the physical fitness test that was when someone finally turned him in. When I came back the next year for advanced training some of the guys who were in his platoon got pulled aside to provide sworn statements and potentially testifying against him. So he want from a comfortable living to being busted down to private and going to Leavenworth prison.
Goes to show the system does work in some situations. I see in the press the cases where either the system breaks down, or even more often, the system is not even tried. Either due to ignorance or some belief that it will not work. So good to hear that some soldier(s) used the system in place and it worked. Only shame is that it was not reported earlier.
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I work in healthcare.
Worker #1($15/hour): "I'm so excited about my new car"!
Worker #2(Cardiologist, $350k/year): "Really, what did you get"?
Worker #1: "Brand new Subaru something or other, what did you get"? (Probably $30K, financed for God knows how long)
Worker #2: "2013 Subaru Forrester"……………..
Another situation. Coworker making around $75k, husband around $50k, so comfortable six figure income. Says she can't afford to work 40 hours/week. Depends on overtime and call pay to make ends meet. Couple months later, excitedly telling everyone about her husbands brand new pickup truck, probably 40-$50k, again financed forever……..
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I work in healthcare.
Worker #1($15/hour): "I'm so excited about my new car"!
Worker #2(Cardiologist, $350k/year): "Really, what did you get"?
Worker #1: "Brand new Subaru something or other, what did you get"? (Probably $30K, financed for God knows how long)
Worker #2: "2013 Subaru Forrester"……………..
Another situation. Coworker making around $75k, husband around $50k, so comfortable six figure income. Says she can't afford to work 40 hours/week. Depends on overtime and call pay to make ends meet. Couple months later, excitedly telling everyone about her husbands brand new pickup truck, probably 40-$50k, again financed forever……..
Wow. This is so backwards or upside down.
I can relate. DW and I have nice income. I drive a 2013 Honda Accord. I can tell you I love this car. I consider it fancy.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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I work in healthcare.
Worker #1($15/hour): "I'm so excited about my new car"!
Worker #2(Cardiologist, $350k/year): "Really, what did you get"?
Worker #1: "Brand new Subaru something or other, what did you get"? (Probably $30K, financed for God knows how long)
Worker #2: "2013 Subaru Forrester"……………..
Another situation. Coworker making around $75k, husband around $50k, so comfortable six figure income. Says she can't afford to work 40 hours/week. Depends on overtime and call pay to make ends meet. Couple months later, excitedly telling everyone about her husbands brand new pickup truck, probably 40-$50k, again financed forever……..
Wow. Most expensive cars we've ever bought were $18k and were lightly used (1 yr old, < 7k miles). And we were multi-millionaires at the time.
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I work in healthcare.
Worker #1($15/hour): "I'm so excited about my new car"!
Worker #2(Cardiologist, $350k/year): "Really, what did you get"?
Worker #1: "Brand new Subaru something or other, what did you get"? (Probably $30K, financed for God knows how long)
Worker #2: "2013 Subaru Forrester"……………..
Another situation. Coworker making around $75k, husband around $50k, so comfortable six figure income. Says she can't afford to work 40 hours/week. Depends on overtime and call pay to make ends meet. Couple months later, excitedly telling everyone about her husbands brand new pickup truck, probably 40-$50k, again financed forever……..
Wow. Most expensive cars we've ever bought were $18k and were lightly used (1 yr old, < 7k miles). And we were multi-millionaires at the time.
Yeah, sometimes I’ll list put (just in my head) all the vehicles I have owned and the prices, just for some reflection time. Then also think about how long I had them. And most importantly, why I no longer have them. It’s a pretty short list over 35 years. Then I think about the folks I know that turnover vehicles at a crazy clip.
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I work in healthcare.
Worker #1($15/hour): "I'm so excited about my new car"!
Worker #2(Cardiologist, $350k/year): "Really, what did you get"?
Worker #1: "Brand new Subaru something or other, what did you get"? (Probably $30K, financed for God knows how long)
Worker #2: "2013 Subaru Forrester"……………..
Another situation. Coworker making around $75k, husband around $50k, so comfortable six figure income. Says she can't afford to work 40 hours/week. Depends on overtime and call pay to make ends meet. Couple months later, excitedly telling everyone about her husbands brand new pickup truck, probably 40-$50k, again financed forever……..
Wow. Most expensive cars we've ever bought were $18k and were lightly used (1 yr old, < 7k miles). And we were multi-millionaires at the time.
Yeah, sometimes I’ll list put (just in my head) all the vehicles I have owned and the prices, just for some reflection time. Then also think about how long I had them. And most importantly, why I no longer have them. It’s a pretty short list over 35 years. Then I think about the folks I know that turnover vehicles at a crazy clip.
Yep, I was dropping off kid #2 at school on my way to work today. One of the dads came up behind me to let me know that one of my brake lights was out. I thanked him and said "I thought you were going to tell me my tire was low. I have this one tire with a slow leak..." Of course I looked at it on the way back to the car and yep. That damn tire. But we chatted about how we have been looking at new cars, slightly bigger (think RAV4 and the like). Both of us own 15 year old cars (mine a Matrix, his a Civic) and we realized: "Might as well drive them forever!"
Honestly, I may get a new (used) car when the prices come down a bit, or when my 15 yo gets a driver's license. He's showing no interest though. Maybe when he's a senior he'll want to drive to school. Right now he gets dropped off, but the bus is a heck of a lot cheaper than insurance on a teenaged driver.
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I work in healthcare.
Worker #1($15/hour): "I'm so excited about my new car"!
Worker #2(Cardiologist, $350k/year): "Really, what did you get"?
Worker #1: "Brand new Subaru something or other, what did you get"? (Probably $30K, financed for God knows how long)
Worker #2: "2013 Subaru Forrester"……………..
Another situation. Coworker making around $75k, husband around $50k, so comfortable six figure income. Says she can't afford to work 40 hours/week. Depends on overtime and call pay to make ends meet. Couple months later, excitedly telling everyone about her husbands brand new pickup truck, probably 40-$50k, again financed forever……..
Wow. Most expensive cars we've ever bought were $18k and were lightly used (1 yr old, < 7k miles). And we were multi-millionaires at the time.
Yeah, sometimes I’ll list put (just in my head) all the vehicles I have owned and the prices, just for some reflection time. Then also think about how long I had them. And most importantly, why I no longer have them. It’s a pretty short list over 35 years. Then I think about the folks I know that turnover vehicles at a crazy clip.
I like that exercise. I might try to do the same (it won't be a pretty list).
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I work in healthcare.
Worker #1($15/hour): "I'm so excited about my new car"!
Worker #2(Cardiologist, $350k/year): "Really, what did you get"?
Worker #1: "Brand new Subaru something or other, what did you get"? (Probably $30K, financed for God knows how long)
Worker #2: "2013 Subaru Forrester"……………..
Another situation. Coworker making around $75k, husband around $50k, so comfortable six figure income. Says she can't afford to work 40 hours/week. Depends on overtime and call pay to make ends meet. Couple months later, excitedly telling everyone about her husbands brand new pickup truck, probably 40-$50k, again financed forever……..
Wow. Most expensive cars we've ever bought were $18k and were lightly used (1 yr old, < 7k miles). And we were multi-millionaires at the time.
Yeah, sometimes I’ll list put (just in my head) all the vehicles I have owned and the prices, just for some reflection time. Then also think about how long I had them. And most importantly, why I no longer have them. It’s a pretty short list over 35 years. Then I think about the folks I know that turnover vehicles at a crazy clip.
I like that exercise. I might try to do the same (it won't be a pretty list).
I did this yesterday after I read Joe’s post. I haven’t had that many vehicles, and fully half of them I only “got rid of” because of circumstances beyond my control or not related to wanting to update (e.g., a flash flood that destroyed one car’s electrical system, a car accident I was in because of an abusive ex’s recklessness, moving overseas for years and not wanting to store the car). The rest, I drive until they are on their last legs.
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I work in healthcare.
Worker #1($15/hour): "I'm so excited about my new car"!
Worker #2(Cardiologist, $350k/year): "Really, what did you get"?
Worker #1: "Brand new Subaru something or other, what did you get"? (Probably $30K, financed for God knows how long)
Worker #2: "2013 Subaru Forrester"……………..
Another situation. Coworker making around $75k, husband around $50k, so comfortable six figure income. Says she can't afford to work 40 hours/week. Depends on overtime and call pay to make ends meet. Couple months later, excitedly telling everyone about her husbands brand new pickup truck, probably 40-$50k, again financed forever……..
Wow. Most expensive cars we've ever bought were $18k and were lightly used (1 yr old, < 7k miles). And we were multi-millionaires at the time.
Yeah, sometimes I’ll list put (just in my head) all the vehicles I have owned and the prices, just for some reflection time. Then also think about how long I had them. And most importantly, why I no longer have them. It’s a pretty short list over 35 years. Then I think about the folks I know that turnover vehicles at a crazy clip.
I like that exercise. I might try to do the same (it won't be a pretty list).
I did this yesterday after I read Joe’s post. I haven’t had that many vehicles, and fully half of them I only “got rid of” because of circumstances beyond my control or not related to wanting to update (e.g., a flash flood that destroyed one car’s electrical system, a car accident I was in because of an abusive ex’s recklessness, moving overseas for years and not wanting to store the car). The rest, I drive until they are on their last legs.
I did it, and the result wasn't pretty at all.
I've owned 4 cars in the last 18 years for a combined net cost (cost - resale cost) of $22,000. My current car is the only one that wasn't at least nine years old when I bought it. That's not awful but...
I've owned 4 motorcycles in the last 15 years for a combined net cost of $31,500, and over half of that was for a new bike purchased this summer.
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Very sweet, hardworking coworker in her mid 20's was complaining the other day about paying 1500/month for her 2 bedroom house that she only has to accommodate her two large dogs. No roommates and no desire for them. Her monthly salary is less than $3000. She also has to drive 15 miles each way to work.
I mentioned off hand that our little town adjacent to our workplace (very safe, even hip, as well as walkable to work) has 2 bedroom rentals for $800-1200/month depending on frills, and some are dog friendly too..... crickets...
Well, I tried.
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Very sweet, hardworking coworker in her mid 20's was complaining the other day about paying 1500/month for her 2 bedroom house that she only has to accommodate her two large dogs. No roommates and no desire for them. Her monthly salary is less than $3000. She also has to drive 15 miles each way to work.
I mentioned off hand that our little town adjacent to our workplace (very safe, even hip, as well as walkable to work) has 2 bedroom rentals for $800-1200/month depending on frills, and some are dog friendly too..... crickets...
Well, I tried.
When (if) she's ready, she'll hear the message. Or perhaps see it herself. Until then, you've done all you can do. Just another voice of another viewpoint.
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Now if the garage spring broke - that is a problem. Overloading a circuit, losing power to the opener and you can’t find the manual release handle? Wow.
Modern doors (even insulated) are light enough that they can usually be lifted manually even with a single spring broken out of the pair. It won't stay up on its own, but I went a few days doing that and wedging a ladder in it to hold it up so I could get in and out until repairs were done. The repair guy help it up for part of the work with a pair of vicegrips... That seems a bit iffy to me though, wouldn't be that brave!
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Now if the garage spring broke - that is a problem. Overloading a circuit, losing power to the opener and you can’t find the manual release handle? Wow.
Modern doors (even insulated) are light enough that they can usually be lifted manually even with a single spring broken out of the pair. It won't stay up on its own, but I went a few days doing that and wedging a ladder in it to hold it up so I could get in and out until repairs were done. The repair guy help it up for part of the work with a pair of vicegrips... That seems a bit iffy to me though, wouldn't be that brave!
The way the door and springs are designed, it takes very little force (or torque) to keep the door up once it's up.
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Agreed. Back in the late 90’s my parents garage door spring broke. DM called me to get the door up so she could get to work. That was a heavy door.
Today’s doors can be lifted.
I am an electrical guy. I admit I have fear and respect for garage door springs. The garage door guys show up and clamp with some vice grips and show no fear.
That is one job I am happy to write the check for.
Swanee
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Coworker, I did stupid stuff (got out of the market in 2008) with my 401k so I’m making up for it by buying and selling bit coin to make up for it.
Me I also did stupid stuff with my 401k moving 50% of it out of the market for a while. I decided to hit “singles” vs home runs, I’m now in the 2 comma club in my 401k.
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Agreed. Back in the late 90’s my parents garage door spring broke. DM called me to get the door up so she could get to work. That was a heavy door.
Today’s doors can be lifted.
I am an electrical guy. I admit I have fear and respect for garage door springs. The garage door guys show up and clamp with some vice grips and show no fear.
That is one job I am happy to write the check for.
Swanee
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I do miss the wonderful pinch points on the old garage doors.
I also am fine with having a garage door pro come and deal with a door. Though we have only needed service once (so far…)
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My co-worker--who sure seemed spendy for a long time--told me that she and her new husband have a savings rate of 22%.
Turns out it was 13% for her and 9% for him.
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My co-worker--who sure seemed spendy for a long time--told me that she and her new husband have a savings rate of 22%.
Turns out it was 13% for her and 9% for him.
That's funny! Still better than the average American (not by much), but definitely NOT 22%!
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My co-worker--who sure seemed spendy for a long time--told me that she and her new husband have a savings rate of 22%.
Turns out it was 13% for her and 9% for him.
In that case, our savings rate is a whopping 89%! We can retire way sooner than I initially thought...
(62% + 27%)
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My co-worker--who sure seemed spendy for a long time--told me that she and her new husband have a savings rate of 22%.
Turns out it was 13% for her and 9% for him.
In that case, our savings rate is a whopping 89%! We can retire way sooner than I initially thought...
(62% + 27%)
Imagine if you and your spouse each saved 50%... You would literally be putting all of your money toward retirement!
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My co-worker--who sure seemed spendy for a long time--told me that she and her new husband have a savings rate of 22%.
Turns out it was 13% for her and 9% for him.
In that case, our savings rate is a whopping 89%! We can retire way sooner than I initially thought...
(62% + 27%)
Imagine if you and your spouse each saved 50%... You would literally be putting all of your money toward retirement!
We make jokes about it...
But it really explains why so many people utterly fail managing money, if this is what is going on.
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My co-worker--who sure seemed spendy for a long time--told me that she and her new husband have a savings rate of 22%.
Turns out it was 13% for her and 9% for him.
I’m… that math is wrong.
lol
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My co-worker--who sure seemed spendy for a long time--told me that she and her new husband have a savings rate of 22%.
Turns out it was 13% for her and 9% for him.
In that case, our savings rate is a whopping 89%! We can retire way sooner than I initially thought...
(62% + 27%)
Imagine if you and your spouse each saved 50%... You would literally be putting all of your money toward retirement!
We make jokes about it...
But it really explains why so many people utterly fail managing money, if this is what is going on.
We had a highly respected engineer who finally retired after 57 years last year. He did a very similar thing in a spreadsheet that was his baby that was used for some fairly important testing decisions. No matter how many times in many different ways we tried to explain it to him, he wouldn’t budge. And he was untouchable to the pointed hairs. So we ended up having our own tool that we used, then tweaked things just enough so that when he saw his wonderful spreadsheet he would think all was fine.
When are people taught the concept of least common denominator?
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I’m in the woods with it working right now (lunch break)
Working with it or working on it?
(just jerking your chain...) Enjoy.
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I never understood the appeal of an RV. Like it you can afford an RV, you can probably afford a $50k house that is actually pretty nice in a LCOL. From an aspirational perspective, like cool you are gonna travel the US of A and not be able to park any place cool and have some crappy RV parking lot. Might as well take the. Savings from not paying for 8 miles per gallon and just pay for a hotel near where you want to go. Price is the same.
The key is to avoid the typical mainstream RV park - i.e. a parking lot for RVs. Camping with a crowd. I don't like people enough to do that.
Stayed at Cataloochie Valley in the GSM. Dirt roads in and out, no hookups and it was grand. Campground bathrooms. Used a popup trailer camper. Light, easy to pull and cost us less than a few nights in a nice condo to own forever. Just an elaborate tent to us.
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The Long Term Visitor Areas (LTVA) in AZ and at least one in CA are $180 to camp in from roughly Sept thru April. That gets you access to a dump station, fresh water fill station, and dumpster access. If you don't have at least 10 gal waste tanks it's required to camp nearish the pit toilets. It's a big desert and you can park as close or as far away from others as you want.
I live in my class A full time. I love the lifestyle. I do live in RV parks but am not bound by anything to keep me from going somewhere else. My house has wheels'.
Sorry if I've posted this before, I tend to wax somewhat poetic on this at times and forget where I've already beat it to death. Short answer is, it doesn't have to be life in an rv parking lot unless that is what you want.
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Boondocking is wonderful!
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My co-worker--who sure seemed spendy for a long time--told me that she and her new husband have a savings rate of 22%.
Turns out it was 13% for her and 9% for him.
In that case, our savings rate is a whopping 89%! We can retire way sooner than I initially thought...
(62% + 27%)
Imagine if you and your spouse each saved 50%... You would literally be putting all of your money toward retirement!
We make jokes about it...
But it really explains why so many people utterly fail managing money, if this is what is going on.
We had a highly respected engineer who finally retired after 57 years last year. He did a very similar thing in a spreadsheet that was his baby that was used for some fairly important testing decisions. No matter how many times in many different ways we tried to explain it to him, he wouldn’t budge. And he was untouchable to the pointed hairs. So we ended up having our own tool that we used, then tweaked things just enough so that when he saw his wonderful spreadsheet he would think all was fine.
When are people taught the concept of least common denominator?
Adding fractions...so maybe 4th or 5th grade?
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We had a highly respected engineer who finally retired after 57 years last year.
Age 57 or after 57 years at work (57 +4 + 17 = ...78!?!?!?)
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We had a highly respected engineer who finally retired after 57 years last year.
Age 57 or after 57 years at work (57 +4 + 17 = ...78!?!?!?)
Yeah…57 years in the building, so he was close to 80. He sat just down the way from me for five years, and we both were early arrivers. I fully expected to hear a large thump from his corner some morning….
The rumor was he was working to keep his ex wives from getting his pension. Made for a good story.
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Those ex-wives stories. We had a town scrap metal man that lived in his pickup truck. Told people he was an educated man but chose to make no money so his ex would get no part of his income.
Always seemed a sad, miserable way to live when there were better alternatives.
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Those ex-wives stories. We had a town scrap metal man that lived in his pickup truck. Told people he was an educated man but chose to make no money so his ex would get no part of his income.
Always seemed a sad, miserable way to live when there were better alternatives.
We lived at a marina that had a bitter old men's club. They would turn the lounge TV to sports, complain about Democrats and immigrants and whine about their ex wives.
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I'm still fairly new to the world of work, but my older co-workers told me all these stories about guys who were working to support their first- and second- families.
I cannot predict what's in my future, but the first few years of parenting when parents are squeezed both time-wise and $$$-wise sure seemed tight to me. I'm actually kind of glad that the courts are putting in some structure so that men are required to send resources back to these children that they helped conceive.
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Those ex-wives stories. We had a town scrap metal man that lived in his pickup truck. Told people he was an educated man but chose to make no money so his ex would get no part of his income.
Always seemed a sad, miserable way to live when there were better alternatives.
We lived at a marina that had a bitter old men's club. They would turn the lounge TV to sports, complain about Democrats and immigrants and whine about their ex wives.
Seems a bit ridiculous to complain about something that they could have avoided. And in a way also sad to let someone from the past to rule your current life.
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Those ex-wives stories. We had a town scrap metal man that lived in his pickup truck. Told people he was an educated man but chose to make no money so his ex would get no part of his income.
Always seemed a sad, miserable way to live when there were better alternatives.
We lived at a marina that had a bitter old men's club. They would turn the lounge TV to sports, complain about Democrats and immigrants and whine about their ex wives.
Seems a bit ridiculous to complain about something that they could have avoided. And in a way also sad to let someone from the past to rule your current life.
I'm sure their ex-wives are happier than they are - they don't have to listen to all the whinging. ;-)
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Those ex-wives stories. We had a town scrap metal man that lived in his pickup truck. Told people he was an educated man but chose to make no money so his ex would get no part of his income.
Always seemed a sad, miserable way to live when there were better alternatives.
We lived at a marina that had a bitter old men's club. They would turn the lounge TV to sports, complain about Democrats and immigrants and whine about their ex wives.
Seems a bit ridiculous to complain about something that they could have avoided. And in a way also sad to let someone from the past to rule your current life.
It's actually surprisingly easy to end up in a situation where (depending on where you live) you are paying palimony, perpetual spousal support, or have a prenup thrown out without ever knowing that it was coming. I’m very sympathetic to people who get drug through a divorce that goes bad. I personally know people in all three of those situations.
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Those ex-wives stories. We had a town scrap metal man that lived in his pickup truck. Told people he was an educated man but chose to make no money so his ex would get no part of his income.
Always seemed a sad, miserable way to live when there were better alternatives.
We lived at a marina that had a bitter old men's club. They would turn the lounge TV to sports, complain about Democrats and immigrants and whine about their ex wives.
Seems a bit ridiculous to complain about something that they could have avoided. And in a way also sad to let someone from the past to rule your current life.
It's actually surprisingly easy to end up in a situation where (depending on where you live) you are paying palimony, perpetual spousal support, or have a prenup thrown out without ever knowing that it was coming. I’m very sympathetic to people who get drug through a divorce that goes bad. I personally know people in all three of those situations.
I know people on the other side. Ex-husband cheated on her. When she filed for divorce, he quit his high-paying IT job and took a low-paying warehouse job so that he could avoid paying child support for his three young kids. Wife had to move in with her parents, and then found a job so she could feed and clothe the kids. He then sued her for alimony because "she's making more money". Sometimes divorce is just really messy.
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Those ex-wives stories. We had a town scrap metal man that lived in his pickup truck. Told people he was an educated man but chose to make no money so his ex would get no part of his income.
Always seemed a sad, miserable way to live when there were better alternatives.
We lived at a marina that had a bitter old men's club. They would turn the lounge TV to sports, complain about Democrats and immigrants and whine about their ex wives.
Seems a bit ridiculous to complain about something that they could have avoided. And in a way also sad to let someone from the past to rule your current life.
It's actually surprisingly easy to end up in a situation where (depending on where you live) you are paying palimony, perpetual spousal support, or have a prenup thrown out without ever knowing that it was coming. I’m very sympathetic to people who get drug through a divorce that goes bad. I personally know people in all three of those situations.
I know people on the other side. Ex-husband cheated on her. When she filed for divorce, he quit his high-paying IT job and took a low-paying warehouse job so that he could avoid paying child support for his three young kids. Wife had to move in with her parents, and then found a job so she could feed and clothe the kids. He then sued her for alimony because "she's making more money". Sometimes divorce is just really messy.
What I meant was that if you marry someone that is going to be a stay at home spouse, you kind of also accept the paying of alimoney with your legal system. That is a choice.
I guess marrying an ass is also a choice but you might find out to late. Did he manage to get alimoney? Seems lika a really dysfunctional legal system!
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Those ex-wives stories. We had a town scrap metal man that lived in his pickup truck. Told people he was an educated man but chose to make no money so his ex would get no part of his income.
Always seemed a sad, miserable way to live when there were better alternatives.
We lived at a marina that had a bitter old men's club. They would turn the lounge TV to sports, complain about Democrats and immigrants and whine about their ex wives.
Seems a bit ridiculous to complain about something that they could have avoided. And in a way also sad to let someone from the past to rule your current life.
It's actually surprisingly easy to end up in a situation where (depending on where you live) you are paying palimony, perpetual spousal support, or have a prenup thrown out without ever knowing that it was coming. I’m very sympathetic to people who get drug through a divorce that goes bad. I personally know people in all three of those situations.
I know people on the other side. Ex-husband cheated on her. When she filed for divorce, he quit his high-paying IT job and took a low-paying warehouse job so that he could avoid paying child support for his three young kids. Wife had to move in with her parents, and then found a job so she could feed and clothe the kids. He then sued her for alimony because "she's making more money". Sometimes divorce is just really messy.
I wouldn't even call that "the other side." I'd call that the same side of "OMG WTF how was I supposed to see this coming and why is this our legal system?"
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What I meant was that if you marry someone that is going to be a stay at home spouse, you kind of also accept the paying of alimoney with your legal system. That is a choice.
I agree, but you don't need to be a stay at home spouse (or a parent) to sue (and win) spousal support in Oregon. Although obviously there needs to be a disparity in earning power. Also, if someone comes after you with one of these suits you might end up paying more money to your lawyer to stop it than you would have actually paid in support (or the other way around: paid more to your lawyer than you got in support), which just makes me think that the whole system is broken. Personally. Also, the suit could take years.
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What I meant was that if you marry someone that is going to be a stay at home spouse, you kind of also accept the paying of alimoney with your legal system. That is a choice.
I agree, but you don't need to be a stay at home spouse (or a parent) to sue (and win) spousal support in Oregon. Although obviously there needs to be a disparity in earning power. Also, if someone comes after you with one of these suits you might end up paying more money to your lawyer to stop it than you would have actually paid in support (or the other way around: paid more to your lawyer than you got in support), which just makes me think that the whole system is broken. Personally. Also, the suit could take years.
Here spousal support is unusal at least long term because you are expected to support yourself and child support ends when the kids are out of high school. Also the looser in the legal battle pays the legal fees. I worked in court and I thought the child custody cases were an excellent birthcontrol because that is thing to battle about here. That at least ends after 18 years. You really realised the price of choosing the wrong spouse. But at least you don’t need to support him or her long term.
One woman had custody battles with two men in parallell. One of the men was a one night stand from a cruise. She had some mental problems and lost both cases. In another case there was four possible fathers to the child. The last one, that was the lucky father, the police had to force to DNA-testing. Lucky child!
What happens when/if the ex-spouse dies? You need to find a new one that supports you?
I
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Here spousal support is unusal at least long term because you are expected to support yourself and child support ends when the kids are out of high school. Also the looser in the legal battle pays the legal fees. I worked in court and I thought the child custody cases were an excellent birthcontrol because that is thing to battle about here. That at least ends after 18 years. You really realised the price of choosing the wrong spouse. But at least you don’t need to support him or her long term.
As it should be. We call that "transitional" support in Oregon. I'm not opposed to it when it is actually needed. I'm also fine paying child support. Depending on the situation it might not be "fair" but hey, they're your kids, and you get to help raise them.
What happens when/if the ex-spouse dies? You need to find a new one that supports you?
Around here you would be compelled by court order to buy life insurance for the other party. Of course that only works if you are insurable.
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Here spousal support is unusal at least long term because you are expected to support yourself and child support ends when the kids are out of high school. Also the looser in the legal battle pays the legal fees. I worked in court and I thought the child custody cases were an excellent birthcontrol because that is thing to battle about here. That at least ends after 18 years. You really realised the price of choosing the wrong spouse. But at least you don’t need to support him or her long term.
As it should be. We call that "transitional" support in Oregon. I'm not opposed to it when it is actually needed. I'm also fine paying child support. Depending on the situation it might not be "fair" but hey, they're your kids, and you get to help raise them.
What happens when/if the ex-spouse dies? You need to find a new one that supports you?
Around here you would be compelled by court order to buy life insurance for the other party. Of course that only works if you are insurable.
What kind of situation would not make it fair? Why would it be the responsibility of the other parent to ”help” raise their own kids? Is it not a joint responsibility?
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Here spousal support is unusal at least long term because you are expected to support yourself and child support ends when the kids are out of high school. Also the looser in the legal battle pays the legal fees. I worked in court and I thought the child custody cases were an excellent birthcontrol because that is thing to battle about here. That at least ends after 18 years. You really realised the price of choosing the wrong spouse. But at least you don’t need to support him or her long term.
As it should be. We call that "transitional" support in Oregon. I'm not opposed to it when it is actually needed. I'm also fine paying child support. Depending on the situation it might not be "fair" but hey, they're your kids, and you get to help raise them.
What happens when/if the ex-spouse dies? You need to find a new one that supports you?
Around here you would be compelled by court order to buy life insurance for the other party. Of course that only works if you are insurable.
What kind of situation would not make it fair? Why would it be the responsibility of the other parent to ”help” raise their own kids? Is it not a joint responsibility?
I would say situations surrounding "imputed income" which is when you argue in court about how much the other person could be making even though they aren't. You are basically compelled by the courts to make absolutely as much money as possible for the duration of the child support order.*
* - because that's what's best for the children
** - but not how many married couples live their lives
EDITed to add that the other dumb thing you can end up arguing about in court for $$$$$ is a remarried spouse who receives substantial economic benefit from their new spouse.
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Here spousal support is unusal at least long term because you are expected to support yourself and child support ends when the kids are out of high school. Also the looser in the legal battle pays the legal fees. I worked in court and I thought the child custody cases were an excellent birthcontrol because that is thing to battle about here. That at least ends after 18 years. You really realised the price of choosing the wrong spouse. But at least you don’t need to support him or her long term.
As it should be. We call that "transitional" support in Oregon. I'm not opposed to it when it is actually needed. I'm also fine paying child support. Depending on the situation it might not be "fair" but hey, they're your kids, and you get to help raise them.
What happens when/if the ex-spouse dies? You need to find a new one that supports you?
Around here you would be compelled by court order to buy life insurance for the other party. Of course that only works if you are insurable.
What kind of situation would not make it fair? Why would it be the responsibility of the other parent to ”help” raise their own kids? Is it not a joint responsibility?
I would say situations surrounding "imputed income" which is when you argue in court about how much the other person could be making even though they aren't. You are basically compelled by the courts to make absolutely as much money as possible for the duration of the child support order.*
* - because that's what's best for the children
** - but not how many married couples live their lives
EDITed to add that the other dumb thing you can end up arguing about in court for $$$$$ is a remarried spouse who receives substantial economic benefit from their new spouse.
I agree about the imputed income. Though I mightt understand that in cases like above when someone gives up a career and wants the exspouse to support them. I don’t think that would be possible here. The child has right to maintain the lifestyle of the spouse with the loftier lifestyle but if that spouse decides to do a career change I guess the amount could be changed.
Do you mean that the spousal support continues after someone have been remarried? That doesnt seem fair. But it should not change the childsupport because why should the new spouse need to support someone else kids.
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Do you mean that the spousal support continues after someone have been remarried? That doesnt seem fair. But it should not change the childsupport because why should the new spouse need to support someone else kids.
No, I actually mean child support. Keeping in mind that child support is basically an equalization payment so that the children can maintain a good standard of living at both houses there is a bunch of math in the Oregon child support calculator for what they call "self-support." But this math (arguably) breaks down if all of the costs of living are subsidized for one of the spouses because of remarriage (or cohabitation).
I'll just make up an example where my ex-wife moves in with Elon Musk and although on paper she makes $0* he gives her a joint CC and she buys whatever she wants with it and doesn't pay any rent. Although Mr Musk would have no obligation to support my children he has already (in my made up example) decided to support the mother. So suddenly the amount that I'm paying the mother isn't really just or reasonable for the benefit of the children. I could go to court and ask a judge to please fix that for the benefit of my children, and the judge would probably agree. But in the mean time Musk could hire an army of lawyers for the mom and they could go through all my bank statements and tax returns and depose me and ask me a bunch of questions about them just to fuck with me.
The other time that the Oregon child support calculator stops making sense is when one parent (or child) has a bunch of assets, because all the math is based on income. In Oregon parents need to pay child support though 21 years of age if the child goes to college, but does that makes sense if they have a pile of money that they inherited from their grandparent? I don't actually know of any cases like that that have been litigated, but I haven't looked very hard.
Also, because the calculator is based on income you are discouraged from ever realizing any gains, even if you were going to take those gains and put them into your child's Roth IRA.
This post isn't legal advice, it's just life advice to never get married and not have have kids with someone unless you really really trust them. I'm actually on very good terms with my ex-wife and we've never spent a dime on attorneys because we are both reasonable (enough) people.
* - most likely imputed up to minimum wage
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Do you mean that the spousal support continues after someone have been remarried? That doesnt seem fair. But it should not change the childsupport because why should the new spouse need to support someone else kids.
No, I actually mean child support. Keeping in mind that child support is basically an equalization payment so that the children can maintain a good standard of living at both houses there is a bunch of math in the Oregon child support calculator for what they call "self-support." But this math (arguably) breaks down if all of the costs of living are subsidized for one of the spouses because of remarriage (or cohabitation).
I'll just make up an example where my ex-wife moves in with Elon Musk and although on paper she makes $0 he gives her a joint CC and she buys whatever she wants with it and doesn't pay any rent. Although Mr Musk would have no obligation to support my children he has already (in my made up example) decided to support the mother. So suddenly the amount that I'm paying the mother isn't really just or reasonable for the benefit of the children. I could go to court and ask a judge to please fix that for the benefit of my children, and the judge would probably agree. But in the mean time Musk could hire an army of lawyers for the mom and they could go through all my bank statements and tax returns and depose me and ask me a bunch of questions about them just to fuck with me.
The other time that the Oregon child support calculator stops making sense is when one parent (or child) has a bunch of assets, because all the math is based on income. In Oregon parents need to pay child support though 21 years of age if the child goes to college, but does that makes sense if they have a pile of money that they inherited from their grandparent? I don't actually know of any cases like that that have been litigated, but I haven't looked very hard.
Also, because the calculator is based on income you are discouraged from ever realizing any gains, even if you were going to take those gains and put them into your child's Roth IRA.
This post isn't legal advice, it's just life advice to never get married and not have have kids with someone unless you really really trust them. I'm actually on very good terms with my ex-wife and we've never spent a dime on attorneys because we are both reasonable (enough) people.
That makes sense. It is pretty interesting that someone can choose not to work and that would be to their advantage in determining child support.
I think everyone that divorces with kids should have ten hours with a therapist before so they can deal with their issues there instead of being an ass in the child custody case because they want revenge for some past shit.
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I think everyone that divorces with kids should have ten hours with a therapist before so they can deal with their issues there instead of being an ass in the child custody case because they want revenge for some past shit.
A lot of Oregon counties now require parenting classes before the divorce is final. I'm a huge fan of this, but seriously, county by county with different requirements in each county? Also, we're talking about 2~5 hours where an adoption requires 10 hours for the whole state. I can probably stop ranting about family law now.
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Those ex-wives stories. We had a town scrap metal man that lived in his pickup truck. Told people he was an educated man but chose to make no money so his ex would get no part of his income.
Always seemed a sad, miserable way to live when there were better alternatives.
We lived at a marina that had a bitter old men's club. They would turn the lounge TV to sports, complain about Democrats and immigrants and whine about their ex wives.
Seems a bit ridiculous to complain about something that they could have avoided. And in a way also sad to let someone from the past to rule your current life.
It's actually surprisingly easy to end up in a situation where (depending on where you live) you are paying palimony, perpetual spousal support, or have a prenup thrown out without ever knowing that it was coming. I’m very sympathetic to people who get drug through a divorce that goes bad. I personally know people in all three of those situations.
I know people on the other side. Ex-husband cheated on her. When she filed for divorce, he quit his high-paying IT job and took a low-paying warehouse job so that he could avoid paying child support for his three young kids. Wife had to move in with her parents, and then found a job so she could feed and clothe the kids. He then sued her for alimony because "she's making more money". Sometimes divorce is just really messy.
What I meant was that if you marry someone that is going to be a stay at home spouse, you kind of also accept the paying of alimoney with your legal system. That is a choice.
I guess marrying an ass is also a choice but you might find out to late. Did he manage to get alimoney? Seems lika a really dysfunctional legal system!
I think they’re still sorting it out in court. He’s claiming that he “wanted a career change” from being an IT guy making over $100k a year to being an Amazon warehouse worker making minimum wage.
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Those ex-wives stories. We had a town scrap metal man that lived in his pickup truck. Told people he was an educated man but chose to make no money so his ex would get no part of his income.
Always seemed a sad, miserable way to live when there were better alternatives.
We lived at a marina that had a bitter old men's club. They would turn the lounge TV to sports, complain about Democrats and immigrants and whine about their ex wives.
Seems a bit ridiculous to complain about something that they could have avoided. And in a way also sad to let someone from the past to rule your current life.
It's actually surprisingly easy to end up in a situation where (depending on where you live) you are paying palimony, perpetual spousal support, or have a prenup thrown out without ever knowing that it was coming. I’m very sympathetic to people who get drug through a divorce that goes bad. I personally know people in all three of those situations.
I know people on the other side. Ex-husband cheated on her. When she filed for divorce, he quit his high-paying IT job and took a low-paying warehouse job so that he could avoid paying child support for his three young kids. Wife had to move in with her parents, and then found a job so she could feed and clothe the kids. He then sued her for alimony because "she's making more money". Sometimes divorce is just really messy.
What I meant was that if you marry someone that is going to be a stay at home spouse, you kind of also accept the paying of alimoney with your legal system. That is a choice.
I guess marrying an ass is also a choice but you might find out to late. Did he manage to get alimoney? Seems lika a really dysfunctional legal system!
I think they’re still sorting it out in court. He’s claiming that he “wanted a career change” from being an IT guy making over $100k a year to being an Amazon warehouse worker making minimum wage.
With any luck, that idiot decision comes back to bite him in future, when he has fallen far behind in IT knowledge and is stuck in low paying jobs for the rest of his life. Some people are just so short sighted, never mind vengeful.
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This may not be too big of an "overheard at work" but I have one from a few years ago.
I am a teacher in a state with a rather "safe" pension. As such myself and my colleagues have access to a 403(b), Roth 403(b), 457, and obviously both IRA options. It is pretty easy to retire at a normal age of 60 with minimal personal investment due to our pension.
A couple of years ago the topic of the lottery came up between a few co-workers. Someone asked, "How much would you have to win today to be able to retire." I was only 28 and I said something to the tune of $2 mil could provide a pretty comfortable life for another 60 years if I was careful.
Two others, both in their 50s, were blown away by my answer and said if they got $2 mil today they wouldn't be able to retire. I tried to explain to them just how much money a year you can get from $2 mil in perpetuity if you adhere to a conservative SWR. It was like talking to a brick wall.
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This may not be too big of an "overheard at work" but I have one from a few years ago.
I am a teacher in a state with a rather "safe" pension. As such myself and my colleagues have access to a 403(b), Roth 403(b), 457, and obviously both IRA options. It is pretty easy to retire at a normal age of 60 with minimal personal investment due to our pension.
A couple of years ago the topic of the lottery came up between a few co-workers. Someone asked, "How much would you have to win today to be able to retire." I was only 28 and I said something to the tune of $2 mil could provide a pretty comfortable life for another 60 years if I was careful.
Two others, both in their 50s, were blown away by my answer and said if they got $2 mil today they wouldn't be able to retire. I tried to explain to them just how much money a year you can get from $2 mil in perpetuity if you adhere to a conservative SWR. It was like talking to a brick wall.
$2 million would likely provide nearly their entire salary. If they couldn't afford to retire on that then how do the manage to live currently?
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My co-worker--who sure seemed spendy for a long time--told me that she and her new husband have a savings rate of 22%.
Turns out it was 13% for her and 9% for him.
In that case, our savings rate is a whopping 89%! We can retire way sooner than I initially thought...
(62% + 27%)
Imagine if you and your spouse each saved 50%... You would literally be putting all of your money toward retirement!
We make jokes about it...
But it really explains why so many people utterly fail managing money, if this is what is going on.
We had a highly respected engineer who finally retired after 57 years last year. He did a very similar thing in a spreadsheet that was his baby that was used for some fairly important testing decisions. No matter how many times in many different ways we tried to explain it to him, he wouldn’t budge. And he was untouchable to the pointed hairs. So we ended up having our own tool that we used, then tweaked things just enough so that when he saw his wonderful spreadsheet he would think all was fine.
When are people taught the concept of least common denominator?
Adding fractions...so maybe 4th or 5th grade?
Yep, my son just learned that in fourth!
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1/4 grade?
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This may not be too big of an "overheard at work" but I have one from a few years ago.
I am a teacher in a state with a rather "safe" pension. As such myself and my colleagues have access to a 403(b), Roth 403(b), 457, and obviously both IRA options. It is pretty easy to retire at a normal age of 60 with minimal personal investment due to our pension.
A couple of years ago the topic of the lottery came up between a few co-workers. Someone asked, "How much would you have to win today to be able to retire." I was only 28 and I said something to the tune of $2 mil could provide a pretty comfortable life for another 60 years if I was careful.
Two others, both in their 50s, were blown away by my answer and said if they got $2 mil today they wouldn't be able to retire. I tried to explain to them just how much money a year you can get from $2 mil in perpetuity if you adhere to a conservative SWR. It was like talking to a brick wall.
$2 million would likely provide nearly their entire salary. If they couldn't afford to retire on that then how do the manage to live currently?
My thoughts exactly. Not sure they understand how any of this works haha.
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This may not be too big of an "overheard at work" but I have one from a few years ago.
I am a teacher in a state with a rather "safe" pension. As such myself and my colleagues have access to a 403(b), Roth 403(b), 457, and obviously both IRA options. It is pretty easy to retire at a normal age of 60 with minimal personal investment due to our pension.
A couple of years ago the topic of the lottery came up between a few co-workers. Someone asked, "How much would you have to win today to be able to retire." I was only 28 and I said something to the tune of $2 mil could provide a pretty comfortable life for another 60 years if I was careful.
Two others, both in their 50s, were blown away by my answer and said if they got $2 mil today they wouldn't be able to retire. I tried to explain to them just how much money a year you can get from $2 mil in perpetuity if you adhere to a conservative SWR. It was like talking to a brick wall.
$2 million would likely provide nearly their entire salary. If they couldn't afford to retire on that then how do the manage to live currently?
My thoughts exactly. Not sure they understand how any of this works haha.
I think many people view their salaries as something stable and reliable (despite all the real world examples to the contrary), but income from investments as somehow insecure and dependent on the vagaries of the market (which is of course true to some extent, hence asset allocation, diversification, and the 4% rule rather than a 7% rule).
So relying on their salaries is the normal and done thing, even if it requires them to actually do something every day to keep it going. After all, this is what most people do. And for many people, getting some money portioned out every month or so is probably better than having a million or two available at once, to be honest. Many non-Mustachians would have a hard time not throwing at least 10% of that at crap, basically, just because they could. Which would mean they eventually really couldn’t manage to live on what’s left…
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This may not be too big of an "overheard at work" but I have one from a few years ago.
I am a teacher in a state with a rather "safe" pension. As such myself and my colleagues have access to a 403(b), Roth 403(b), 457, and obviously both IRA options. It is pretty easy to retire at a normal age of 60 with minimal personal investment due to our pension.
A couple of years ago the topic of the lottery came up between a few co-workers. Someone asked, "How much would you have to win today to be able to retire." I was only 28 and I said something to the tune of $2 mil could provide a pretty comfortable life for another 60 years if I was careful.
Two others, both in their 50s, were blown away by my answer and said if they got $2 mil today they wouldn't be able to retire. I tried to explain to them just how much money a year you can get from $2 mil in perpetuity if you adhere to a conservative SWR. It was like talking to a brick wall.
$2 million would likely provide nearly their entire salary. If they couldn't afford to retire on that then how do the manage to live currently?
My thoughts exactly. Not sure they understand how any of this works haha.
And why should they? Really, when those people were getting hired, pensions were normal for a lot of Americans. Even now, with the market on a crazy tear for the past 12 years, only ~ 50% of Americans have ANYTHING invested in the stock market.
For my mom, single divorcee with three kids in the 1970's, she couldn't even get an account with the WATER company; she had to have her dad co-sign the account when my dad left!!!
We are WEIRD. I think we forget that sometimes. But most people don't think about the stock market as accessible, or trustworthy, or even something that middle class folks participate in...
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This may not be too big of an "overheard at work" but I have one from a few years ago.
I am a teacher in a state with a rather "safe" pension. As such myself and my colleagues have access to a 403(b), Roth 403(b), 457, and obviously both IRA options. It is pretty easy to retire at a normal age of 60 with minimal personal investment due to our pension.
A couple of years ago the topic of the lottery came up between a few co-workers. Someone asked, "How much would you have to win today to be able to retire." I was only 28 and I said something to the tune of $2 mil could provide a pretty comfortable life for another 60 years if I was careful.
Two others, both in their 50s, were blown away by my answer and said if they got $2 mil today they wouldn't be able to retire. I tried to explain to them just how much money a year you can get from $2 mil in perpetuity if you adhere to a conservative SWR. It was like talking to a brick wall.
$2 million would likely provide nearly their entire salary. If they couldn't afford to retire on that then how do the manage to live currently?
My thoughts exactly. Not sure they understand how any of this works haha.
And why should they? Really, when those people were getting hired, pensions were normal for a lot of Americans. Even now, with the market on a crazy tear for the past 12 years, only ~ 50% of Americans have ANYTHING invested in the stock market.
For my mom, single divorcee with three kids in the 1970's, she couldn't even get an account with the WATER company; she had to have her dad co-sign the account when my dad left!!!
We are WEIRD. I think we forget that sometimes. But most people don't think about the stock market as accessible, or trustworthy, or even something that middle class folks participate in...
One of my son's friend's dad has a TSP account which he has only contributed to the G fund (guaranteed returns, but doesn't beat inflation) because "the stock market is gambling." He's kind of a fundie so I'm not sure if he really believes that or if he got burned in 2008.
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This may not be too big of an "overheard at work" but I have one from a few years ago.
I am a teacher in a state with a rather "safe" pension. As such myself and my colleagues have access to a 403(b), Roth 403(b), 457, and obviously both IRA options. It is pretty easy to retire at a normal age of 60 with minimal personal investment due to our pension.
A couple of years ago the topic of the lottery came up between a few co-workers. Someone asked, "How much would you have to win today to be able to retire." I was only 28 and I said something to the tune of $2 mil could provide a pretty comfortable life for another 60 years if I was careful.
Two others, both in their 50s, were blown away by my answer and said if they got $2 mil today they wouldn't be able to retire. I tried to explain to them just how much money a year you can get from $2 mil in perpetuity if you adhere to a conservative SWR. It was like talking to a brick wall.
$2 million would likely provide nearly their entire salary. If they couldn't afford to retire on that then how do the manage to live currently?
My thoughts exactly. Not sure they understand how any of this works haha.
And why should they? Really, when those people were getting hired, pensions were normal for a lot of Americans. Even now, with the market on a crazy tear for the past 12 years, only ~ 50% of Americans have ANYTHING invested in the stock market.
For my mom, single divorcee with three kids in the 1970's, she couldn't even get an account with the WATER company; she had to have her dad co-sign the account when my dad left!!!
We are WEIRD. I think we forget that sometimes. But most people don't think about the stock market as accessible, or trustworthy, or even something that middle class folks participate in...
One of my son's friend's dad has a TSP account which he has only contributed to the G fund (guaranteed returns, but doesn't beat inflation) because "the stock market is gambling." He's kind of a fundie so I'm not sure if he really believes that or if he got burned in 2008.
Unfortunately it’s not all that uncommon 33.7% of all money in the TSP is in the G fund.
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One of my son's friend's dad has a TSP account which he has only contributed to the G fund (guaranteed returns, but doesn't beat inflation) because "the stock market is gambling." He's kind of a fundie so I'm not sure if he really believes that or if he got burned in 2008.
Fundie = Fundamentalist?
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One of my son's friend's dad has a TSP account which he has only contributed to the G fund (guaranteed returns, but doesn't beat inflation) because "the stock market is gambling." He's kind of a fundie so I'm not sure if he really believes that or if he got burned in 2008.
Fundie = Fundamentalist?
Yep. This is the same dad who's son has been telling my child that the covid vaccine is going to kill him.
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One of my son's friend's dad has a TSP account which he has only contributed to the G fund (guaranteed returns, but doesn't beat inflation) because "the stock market is gambling." He's kind of a fundie so I'm not sure if he really believes that or if he got burned in 2008.
Fundie = Fundamentalist?
Yep. This is the same dad who's son has been telling my child that the covid vaccine is going to kill him.
Well, if they aren't getting vaccinated the odds just went up that they've ALREADY saved enough for their retirement needs 'cause they won't live long enough to use them.
Modern problems require modern solutions...
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One of my son's friend's dad has a TSP account which he has only contributed to the G fund (guaranteed returns, but doesn't beat inflation) because "the stock market is gambling." He's kind of a fundie so I'm not sure if he really believes that or if he got burned in 2008.
Fundie = Fundamentalist?
Yep. This is the same dad who's son has been telling my child that the covid vaccine is going to kill him.
Okay then. My sister and her family are fundies. Her husband died of Covid the week before last. None of them are vaccinated.
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One of my son's friend's dad has a TSP account which he has only contributed to the G fund (guaranteed returns, but doesn't beat inflation) because "the stock market is gambling." He's kind of a fundie so I'm not sure if he really believes that or if he got burned in 2008.
Fundie = Fundamentalist?
Yep. This is the same dad who's son has been telling my child that the covid vaccine is going to kill him.
Okay then. My sister and her family are fundies. Her husband died of Covid the week before last. None of them are vaccinated.
My condolences re your BiL. Will they be vaccinated now? Or is his death "God's will"?
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One of my son's friend's dad has a TSP account which he has only contributed to the G fund (guaranteed returns, but doesn't beat inflation) because "the stock market is gambling." He's kind of a fundie so I'm not sure if he really believes that or if he got burned in 2008.
Fundie = Fundamentalist?
Yep. This is the same dad who's son has been telling my child that the covid vaccine is going to kill him.
Okay then. My sister and her family are fundies. Her husband died of Covid the week before last. None of them are vaccinated.
My condolences re your BiL. Will they be vaccinated now? Or is his death "God's will"?
The latter, of course.
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One of my son's friend's dad has a TSP account which he has only contributed to the G fund (guaranteed returns, but doesn't beat inflation) because "the stock market is gambling." He's kind of a fundie so I'm not sure if he really believes that or if he got burned in 2008.
Fundie = Fundamentalist?
Yep. This is the same dad who's son has been telling my child that the covid vaccine is going to kill him.
Okay then. My sister and her family are fundies. Her husband died of Covid the week before last. None of them are vaccinated.
My condolences re your BiL. Will they be vaccinated now? Or is his death "God's will"?
The latter, of course.
Gah! That would drive me crazy. I would be biting my tongue so hard not to say something.
Are they consistent? No other vaccines? No antibiotics? No surgeries? No dental care? Or is it just this one stupid politicized chunk of nonsense. Um, I guess where I stand is kind of obvious ;-)
I love modern medicine, despite it's faults. My grandfather was one of 13 children, 11 of whom lived to adulthood. That was the first generation with those survival rates. Before that it would have been 13 children with 2-3 making it to adulthood.
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One of my son's friend's dad has a TSP account which he has only contributed to the G fund (guaranteed returns, but doesn't beat inflation) because "the stock market is gambling." He's kind of a fundie so I'm not sure if he really believes that or if he got burned in 2008.
Fundie = Fundamentalist?
Yep. This is the same dad who's son has been telling my child that the covid vaccine is going to kill him.
Okay then. My sister and her family are fundies. Her husband died of Covid the week before last. None of them are vaccinated.
My condolences re your BiL. Will they be vaccinated now? Or is his death "God's will"?
The latter, of course.
I'm assuming they took him to the hospital for care when he got bad, though. Yes?
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One of my son's friend's dad has a TSP account which he has only contributed to the G fund (guaranteed returns, but doesn't beat inflation) because "the stock market is gambling." He's kind of a fundie so I'm not sure if he really believes that or if he got burned in 2008.
Fundie = Fundamentalist?
Yep. This is the same dad who's son has been telling my child that the covid vaccine is going to kill him.
Okay then. My sister and her family are fundies. Her husband died of Covid the week before last. None of them are vaccinated.
My condolences re your BiL. Will they be vaccinated now? Or is his death "God's will"?
The latter, of course.
I'm assuming they took him to the hospital for care when he got bad, though. Yes?
Yes, and my sister had the audacity to complain about the level of service they received there.
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One of my son's friend's dad has a TSP account which he has only contributed to the G fund (guaranteed returns, but doesn't beat inflation) because "the stock market is gambling." He's kind of a fundie so I'm not sure if he really believes that or if he got burned in 2008.
Fundie = Fundamentalist?
Yep. This is the same dad who's son has been telling my child that the covid vaccine is going to kill him.
Okay then. My sister and her family are fundies. Her husband died of Covid the week before last. None of them are vaccinated.
My condolences re your BiL. Will they be vaccinated now? Or is his death "God's will"?
The latter, of course.
I'm assuming they took him to the hospital for care when he got bad, though. Yes?
Yes, and my sister had the audacity to complain about the level of service they received there.
Of course she did
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One of my son's friend's dad has a TSP account which he has only contributed to the G fund (guaranteed returns, but doesn't beat inflation) because "the stock market is gambling." He's kind of a fundie so I'm not sure if he really believes that or if he got burned in 2008.
Fundie = Fundamentalist?
Yep. This is the same dad who's son has been telling my child that the covid vaccine is going to kill him.
Well, if they aren't getting vaccinated the odds just went up that they've ALREADY saved enough for their retirement needs 'cause they won't live long enough to use them.
Modern problems require modern solutions...
So does he have an accommodation, is he retire or is he on his way to getting fired?
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One of my son's friend's dad has a TSP account which he has only contributed to the G fund (guaranteed returns, but doesn't beat inflation) because "the stock market is gambling." He's kind of a fundie so I'm not sure if he really believes that or if he got burned in 2008.
Fundie = Fundamentalist?
Yep. This is the same dad who's son has been telling my child that the covid vaccine is going to kill him.
Okay then. My sister and her family are fundies. Her husband died of Covid the week before last. None of them are vaccinated.
My condolences re your BiL. Will they be vaccinated now? Or is his death "God's will"?
The latter, of course.
I'm assuming they took him to the hospital for care when he got bad, though. Yes?
Yes, and my sister had the audacity to complain about the level of service they received there.
Of course she did
What the fundamentalist churches preach here is that you can't make an effort to prevent God's will from happening (like vaccination) but once his will has manifested, you are free to do everything in your power to prevent it from happening (like getting medical treatment).
I do wonder what these people think about smoke detectors, seatbelts and door locks though. And if God is truly omnipotent then I'm not sure a vaccine will stop him.
Anyway, I'm sorry for the loss of your BIL. Having seen a close relative die from it as well, it's an awful way to die. And it must be even harder to know it was preventable, if someone just had had common sense.
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One of my son's friend's dad has a TSP account which he has only contributed to the G fund (guaranteed returns, but doesn't beat inflation) because "the stock market is gambling." He's kind of a fundie so I'm not sure if he really believes that or if he got burned in 2008.
Fundie = Fundamentalist?
Yep. This is the same dad who's son has been telling my child that the covid vaccine is going to kill him.
Okay then. My sister and her family are fundies. Her husband died of Covid the week before last. None of them are vaccinated.
My condolences re your BiL. Will they be vaccinated now? Or is his death "God's will"?
The latter, of course.
I'm assuming they took him to the hospital for care when he got bad, though. Yes?
Yes, and my sister had the audacity to complain about the level of service they received there.
Of course she did
What the fundamentalist churches preach here is that you can't make an effort to prevent God's will from happening (like vaccination) but once his will has manifested, you are free to do everything in your power to prevent it from happening (like getting medical treatment).
I do wonder what these people think about smoke detectors, seatbelts and door locks though. And if God is truly omnipotent then I'm not sure a vaccine will stop him.
Anyway, I'm sorry for the loss of your BIL. Having seen a close relative die from it as well, it's an awful way to die. And it must be even harder to know it was preventable, if someone just had had common sense.
Amen.
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What the fundamentalist churches preach here is that you can't make an effort to prevent God's will from happening (like vaccination) but once his will has manifested, you are free to do everything in your power to prevent it from happening (like getting medical treatment).
So if it is God's will that we find a vaccine, isn't not taking it going against God's will when you should not?
I guess that is another of those times of "being stupid by trying to understand religion with logic"
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What the fundamentalist churches preach here is that you can't make an effort to prevent God's will from happening (like vaccination) but once his will has manifested, you are free to do everything in your power to prevent it from happening (like getting medical treatment).
So if it is God's will that we find a vaccine, isn't not taking it going against God's will when you should not?
I guess that is another of those times of "being stupid by trying to understand religion with logic"
This seems rather appropriate...
A farmer is stranded during a flood. The river is overflowing. Water is surrounding the farmer’s home up to his front porch. As he is standing there, a boat comes up. The man in the boat says, “Jump in, and I’ll take you to safety.”
The farmer crosses his arms and says stubbornly, “Oh no thanks, I put my trust in God.” The boat goes away. The water rises to the second story. Another boat comes up. The man says to the farmer, who is now at the second floor window, “Hurry, jump in. I’ll save you.”
The farmer again says, “Oh no thanks, I put my trust in God.”
The boat goes away. Now the water is inching over the roof. As the farmer stands on the roof, a helicopter comes over, and drops a ladder. The pilot yells down to the farmer, “I’ll save you. Climb the ladder.”
The farmer yells back, “Oh no thanks, I put my trust in God.”
The helicopter goes away. The water continues to rise and sweeps the farmer off the roof into the swiftly moving water. Unfortunately, he drowns.
The farmer goes to heaven. God sees him and says, “What are you doing here?”
The farmer says, “I put my trust in you, and you let me down.”
God says, “What do you mean, let you down? I sent you two boats and a helicopter!”
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What the fundamentalist churches preach here is that you can't make an effort to prevent God's will from happening (like vaccination) but once his will has manifested, you are free to do everything in your power to prevent it from happening (like getting medical treatment).
So if it is God's will that we find a vaccine, isn't not taking it going against God's will when you should not?
I guess that is another of those times of "being stupid by trying to understand religion with logic"
But what if we are defying God by creating vaccines?
These people have actually thought about this issue a lot and to the it makes perfect sense. They also don't believe in getting any type of insurance for example. It's just hard to understand for those of us who don't share these specific views. I think it's a very fascinating group of people (the Dutch Reformed Church) because they aren't idiots. They study the Bible, theology and history extremely thoroughly and have a strong culture of internal debate. And still they end up having these views that outsiders are completely unable to understand.
I do think they lock their doors, but seriously, when car seatbelts were first made mandatory, it was a big issue for them. A couple of decades later, most of them do wear them. But any kind of vaccination has always been a no-no, even after several epidemics of polio in their community. If polio isn't gruesome enough for them to want to get vaccines, then Covid certainly isn't.
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But what if we are defying God by creating vaccines?
These people have actually thought about this issue a lot and to the it makes perfect sense. They also don't believe in getting any type of insurance for example. It's just hard to understand for those of us who don't share these specific views. I think it's a very fascinating group of people (the Dutch Reformed Church) because they aren't idiots. They study the Bible, theology and history extremely thoroughly and have a strong culture of internal debate. And still they end up having these views that outsiders are completely unable to understand.
I do think they lock their doors, but seriously, when car seatbelts were first made mandatory, it was a big issue for them. A couple of decades later, most of them do wear them. But any kind of vaccination has always been a no-no, even after several epidemics of polio in their community. If polio isn't gruesome enough for them to want to get vaccines, then Covid certainly isn't.
"It's God's will for you to choose not to protect your children from getting polio and dying or getting paralyzed for the rest of their lives"...because God is some kind of sadistic psychopath, and you should definitely continue worshipping such an entity. Yeah, no wonder outsiders can't understand it. It sounds like a twisted justification for a bunch of institutionalized abuse. I believe you that they've debated it and thought about it, but they must have some very messed up foundational assumptions about the universe and morality.
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One of my son's friend's dad has a TSP account which he has only contributed to the G fund (guaranteed returns, but doesn't beat inflation) because "the stock market is gambling." He's kind of a fundie so I'm not sure if he really believes that or if he got burned in 2008.
Fundie = Fundamentalist?
Yep. This is the same dad who's son has been telling my child that the covid vaccine is going to kill him.
Okay then. My sister and her family are fundies. Her husband died of Covid the week before last. None of them are vaccinated.
My condolences re your BiL. Will they be vaccinated now? Or is his death "God's will"?
The latter, of course.
I'm assuming they took him to the hospital for care when he got bad, though. Yes?
Yes, and my sister had the audacity to complain about the level of service they received there.
I knew this would be the answer. And yet, it still pissed me the hell off to read it.
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But what if we are defying God by creating vaccines?
These people have actually thought about this issue a lot and to the it makes perfect sense. They also don't believe in getting any type of insurance for example. It's just hard to understand for those of us who don't share these specific views. I think it's a very fascinating group of people (the Dutch Reformed Church) because they aren't idiots. They study the Bible, theology and history extremely thoroughly and have a strong culture of internal debate. And still they end up having these views that outsiders are completely unable to understand.
I do think they lock their doors, but seriously, when car seatbelts were first made mandatory, it was a big issue for them. A couple of decades later, most of them do wear them. But any kind of vaccination has always been a no-no, even after several epidemics of polio in their community. If polio isn't gruesome enough for them to want to get vaccines, then Covid certainly isn't.
"It's God's will for you to choose not to protect your children from getting polio and dying or getting paralyzed for the rest of their lives"...because God is some kind of sadistic psychopath, and you should definitely continue worshipping such an entity. Yeah, no wonder outsiders can't understand it. It sounds like a twisted justification for a bunch of institutionalized abuse. I believe you that they've debated it and thought about it, but they must have some very messed up foundational assumptions about the universe and morality.
I think it's difficult to read the Bible and not come to the conclusion that God is some kind of sadistic psychopath.
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One of my son's friend's dad has a TSP account which he has only contributed to the G fund (guaranteed returns, but doesn't beat inflation) because "the stock market is gambling." He's kind of a fundie so I'm not sure if he really believes that or if he got burned in 2008.
Fundie = Fundamentalist?
Yep. This is the same dad who's son has been telling my child that the covid vaccine is going to kill him.
Well, if they aren't getting vaccinated the odds just went up that they've ALREADY saved enough for their retirement needs 'cause they won't live long enough to use them.
Modern problems require modern solutions...
So does he have an accommodation, is he retire or is he on his way to getting fired?
I'm sure that he's requested an accommodation like 2/3 of the rest of our agencies. I'm curious as to how this is going to play out. The way the accommodation form is written makes it seem like almost no one is going to get it approved. But who knows? This is deep deep red country.
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Back on topic...
I live in Shanghai. Our company has recommended that no one leave the city over the Christmas season, mainly because the laws here are quite strict, and if you travel somewhere which ends up being a medium or high risk area (even one COVID case in the neighborhood will turn the neighborhood into a medium risk area), you will be forced to quarantine for two weeks either at your vacation destination or when you return to Shanghai, and the company cannot afford to have large groups of employees away from work (most of us have to be physically present to do our jobs).
The anti-Mustachian piece is that many people booked non-refundable vacations to Sanya (a warm, tropical, beachy part of China) a few months ago. Now they are all freaking out because everyone is cancelling their traveling plans, and they're stuck with a $$$ vacation package to a five-star resort hotel.
I'm like, "Folks, if you're in the middle of a pandemic and living in a country that can get locked down at a moment's notice, pay that extra few hundred dollars and get a refundable package." Or make a decision to do a staycation. I can understand their desire to get away though...it's been a long pandemic.
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Back on topic...
I live in Shanghai. Our company has recommended that no one leave the city over the Christmas season, mainly because the laws here are quite strict, and if you travel somewhere which ends up being a medium or high risk area (even one COVID case in the neighborhood will turn the neighborhood into a medium risk area), you will be forced to quarantine for two weeks either at your vacation destination or when you return to Shanghai, and the company cannot afford to have large groups of employees away from work (most of us have to be physically present to do our jobs).
The anti-Mustachian piece is that many people booked non-refundable vacations to Sanya (a warm, tropical, beachy part of China) a few months ago. Now they are all freaking out because everyone is cancelling their traveling plans, and they're stuck with a $$$ vacation package to a five-star resort hotel.
I'm like, "Folks, if you're in the middle of a pandemic and living in a country that can get locked down at a moment's notice, pay that extra few hundred dollars and get a refundable package." Or make a decision to do a staycation. I can understand their desire to get away though...it's been a long pandemic.
Or (Covid aside, which I know is a big aside) just go and risk losing two weeks of income? I’m guessing the vacation cost more than a couple weeks salary
Unless “recommend” is code for “order”
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@dragoncar but it's impossible, no one can afford to lose two weeks of income! /s
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Back on topic...
I live in Shanghai. Our company has recommended that no one leave the city over the Christmas season, mainly because the laws here are quite strict, and if you travel somewhere which ends up being a medium or high risk area (even one COVID case in the neighborhood will turn the neighborhood into a medium risk area), you will be forced to quarantine for two weeks either at your vacation destination or when you return to Shanghai, and the company cannot afford to have large groups of employees away from work (most of us have to be physically present to do our jobs).
The anti-Mustachian piece is that many people booked non-refundable vacations to Sanya (a warm, tropical, beachy part of China) a few months ago. Now they are all freaking out because everyone is cancelling their traveling plans, and they're stuck with a $$$ vacation package to a five-star resort hotel.
I'm like, "Folks, if you're in the middle of a pandemic and living in a country that can get locked down at a moment's notice, pay that extra few hundred dollars and get a refundable package." Or make a decision to do a staycation. I can understand their desire to get away though...it's been a long pandemic.
Or (Covid aside, which I know is a big aside) just go and risk losing two weeks of income? I’m guessing the vacation cost more than a couple weeks salary
Unless “recommend” is code for “order”
Yeah, it's "strongly recommend"...but, if you do end up going to a medium/high risk area, you:
1. Lose two weeks of income
2. Could be marked as being in breach of contract (which you are, because our contracts clearly state the number of days we are expected to be at work), and
3. Risk not having your contract renewed the following year.
Also, your two-week mandatory quarantine in a government facility is on your own dime. And the government facilities here mainly serve local Chinese food...and possibly KFC...and may or may not meet international standards of comfort. Most expats were also planning to travel with kids, so they definitely do not look forward to the possibility of being locked in a standard size hotel room for two weeks with their kid(s). Also, it's only one adult per room, so either mom or dad will have the pleasure of keeping cooped up young kids occupied while getting NAT tests every few days.
Basically, the people who selected non-refundable packages are losing about USD$2000 for a week-long vacation.
@dragoncar but it's impossible, no one can afford to lose two weeks of income! /s
LOL! So true! They may have to give up their weekly massage and won't be able to pay their dog-nanny!
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One of my son's friend's dad has a TSP account which he has only contributed to the G fund (guaranteed returns, but doesn't beat inflation) because "the stock market is gambling." He's kind of a fundie so I'm not sure if he really believes that or if he got burned in 2008.
Fundie = Fundamentalist?
Yep. This is the same dad who's son has been telling my child that the covid vaccine is going to kill him.
Well, if they aren't getting vaccinated the odds just went up that they've ALREADY saved enough for their retirement needs 'cause they won't live long enough to use them.
Modern problems require modern solutions...
So does he have an accommodation, is he retire or is he on his way to getting fired?
I'm sure that he's requested an accommodation like 2/3 of the rest of our agencies. I'm curious as to how this is going to play out. The way the accommodation form is written makes it seem like almost no one is going to get it approved. But who knows? This is deep deep red country.
Seriously that low? We are above 95% and I’m not exactly in a “ liberal” work place.
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Yep. This is the same dad who's son has been telling my child that the covid vaccine is going to kill him.
So the vaccine most of us already have had will kill us at some point in the future? I had not heard this angle yet.
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Yep. This is the same dad who's son has been telling my child that the covid vaccine is going to kill him.
So the vaccine most of us already have had will kill us at some point in the future? I had not heard this angle yet.
I've heard from a small number of people that everyone who has had the vaccine will be dead within three years. Stupid qanon shit.
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So weird. The actual statistics are indicating that of the people who were hospitalized with severe Covid but survived and went home, 50% die within 12 months. It’s so wrong that people are making stuff up that is not just untrue but is the near opposite of reality.
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So weird. The actual statistics are indicating that of the people who were hospitalized with severe Covid but survived and went home, 50% die within 12 months. It’s so wrong that people are making stuff up that is not just untrue but is the near opposite of reality.
Source?
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Yep. This is the same dad who's son has been telling my child that the covid vaccine is going to kill him.
So the vaccine most of us already have had will kill us at some point in the future? I had not heard this angle yet.
I've heard from a small number of people that everyone who has had the vaccine will be dead within three years. Stupid qanon shit.
At least it has gone up from the 6 month I heard - for quite obvious reasons.
It's full in line with all those "the world will end at..." and then 5 days after the end of the world they find out that they have miscalculated the date all the years.
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So weird. The actual statistics are indicating that of the people who were hospitalized with severe Covid but survived and went home, 50% die within 12 months. It’s so wrong that people are making stuff up that is not just untrue but is the near opposite of reality.
Source?
I can't tell if Taran is joking with the line about people making stuff up there.
I only know of one person who went to ICU and survived. It hasn't been 12 months yet, but he seems to be doing fine.
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So weird. The actual statistics are indicating that of the people who were hospitalized with severe Covid but survived and went home, 50% die within 12 months. It’s so wrong that people are making stuff up that is not just untrue but is the near opposite of reality.
Source?
I can't tell if Taran is joking with the line about people making stuff up there.
I only know of one person who went to ICU and survived. It hasn't been 12 months yet, but he seems to be doing fine.
The mortality rate is higher, but not quite that bad. According to this (https://www.pennlive.com/news/2021/12/new-study-finds-people-who-survive-a-covid-19-hospitalization-still-more-likely-to-die-within-a-year.html) article, the mortality rate in a small, localized study was 233% higher than the control group, and most were not heart or lung related.
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Yep. This is the same dad who's son has been telling my child that the covid vaccine is going to kill him.
So the vaccine most of us already have had will kill us at some point in the future? I had not heard this angle yet.
I think there simply have been way too many post viral zombie apocalypses movies/novels/tv shows out there for the last 10-20 years. It's just made too many people wary of viruses/vaccines/govt interventions. Propaganda works!
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Yep. This is the same dad who's son has been telling my child that the covid vaccine is going to kill him.
So the vaccine most of us already have had will kill us at some point in the future? I had not heard this angle yet.
I've heard from a small number of people that everyone who has had the vaccine will be dead within three years. Stupid qanon shit.
Yeah, I’ve read a few of these, but can’t find all of them anymore. Bolsonaro is of course always a fountain of crazy ideas and quotes: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/12/04/americas/brazil-bolsonaro-covid-aids-intl-hnk/index.html. Robert Kennedy jr is not far behind: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/politifact/article/robert-kennedy-covid-vaccine-deadly-pants-on-fire-16700258.php. But at least some of them are fake quotes: https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/7435564002.
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So weird. The actual statistics are indicating that of the people who were hospitalized with severe Covid but survived and went home, 50% die within 12 months. It’s so wrong that people are making stuff up that is not just untrue but is the near opposite of reality.
Source?
I can't tell if Taran is joking with the line about people making stuff up there.
I only know of one person who went to ICU and survived. It hasn't been 12 months yet, but he seems to be doing fine.
Well, had you known two, one of them would have been screwed ;-p
To be honest, at least where I am, most people who have been seriously ill with Covid in hospital have been people who are one (or often several) of the following: old, sick, obese, immunosuppressed, etc. That’s part of the reason they ended up in hospital! So the fact that some of them should die soonish (of anything) is not hugely surprising. Having Covid probably doesn’t help either.
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Yep. This is the same dad who's son has been telling my child that the covid vaccine is going to kill him.
So the vaccine most of us already have had will kill us at some point in the future? I had not heard this angle yet.
I've heard from a small number of people that everyone who has had the vaccine will be dead within three years. Stupid qanon shit.
Yeah, I’ve read a few of these, but can’t find all of them anymore. Bolsonaro is of course always a fountain of crazy ideas and quotes: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/12/04/americas/brazil-bolsonaro-covid-aids-intl-hnk/index.html. Robert Kennedy jr is not far behind: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/politifact/article/robert-kennedy-covid-vaccine-deadly-pants-on-fire-16700258.php. But at least some of them are fake quotes: https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/7435564002.
Hey Robert Kennedy's latest book - the one about how Bill Gates and Anthony Fauci are conspiring to inject you with 5g nanobots - is a bestseller. including #1 on Amazon. somebody's listening. In fact it's startling how many people are listening to this crap.
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So weird. The actual statistics are indicating that of the people who were hospitalized with severe Covid but survived and went home, 50% die within 12 months. It’s so wrong that people are making stuff up that is not just untrue but is the near opposite of reality.
Source?
I can't tell if Taran is joking with the line about people making stuff up there.
I only know of one person who went to ICU and survived. It hasn't been 12 months yet, but he seems to be doing fine.
The mortality rate is higher, but not quite that bad. According to this (https://www.pennlive.com/news/2021/12/new-study-finds-people-who-survive-a-covid-19-hospitalization-still-more-likely-to-die-within-a-year.html) article, the mortality rate in a small, localized study was 233% higher than the control group, and most were not heart or lung related.
Darn it, this is what I was thinking of. 233% higher (so basically double chances of death), not half the people die. Also, small study. My brain remembers stuff weirdly sometimes. Thanks for the correction.
My sentiment remains the same. People are worried about the vaccine, and the reality is that getting severe Covid probably makes you more than twice as likely to die in the next year as you would be without. Meanwhile, the vaccine strongly reduces the likelihood of severe Covid. The misinformation is sad.
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So weird. The actual statistics are indicating that of the people who were hospitalized with severe Covid but survived and went home, 50% die within 12 months. It’s so wrong that people are making stuff up that is not just untrue but is the near opposite of reality.
Source?
I can't tell if Taran is joking with the line about people making stuff up there.
I only know of one person who went to ICU and survived. It hasn't been 12 months yet, but he seems to be doing fine.
The mortality rate is higher, but not quite that bad. According to this (https://www.pennlive.com/news/2021/12/new-study-finds-people-who-survive-a-covid-19-hospitalization-still-more-likely-to-die-within-a-year.html) article, the mortality rate in a small, localized study was 233% higher than the control group, and most were not heart or lung related.
Darn it, this is what I was thinking of. 233% higher (so basically double chances of death), not half the people die. Also, small study. My brain remembers stuff weirdly sometimes. Thanks for the correction.
My sentiment remains the same. People are worried about the vaccine, and the reality is that getting severe Covid probably makes you more than twice as likely to die in the next year as you would be without. Meanwhile, the vaccine strongly reduces the likelihood of severe Covid. The misinformation is sad.
I find the constant shifting of goal posts irritating to say the least.
We've gone from "safe and effective" all the way to "you can still get it, you can still spread it, you still need to wear masks, should restrict your social interactions, maintain distance in those you still have but at least it won't be as bad if you catch it." (and that doesn't even engage on the development of the "safe" part of the original claim)
Maybe it's time to admit it's not a vaccine but merely a prophylactic treatment you need to refresh every couple of months.
People are turning this into some sort of religion and fight each other over it instead of looking at data and drawing conclusions. That's not at all how science works.
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So weird. The actual statistics are indicating that of the people who were hospitalized with severe Covid but survived and went home, 50% die within 12 months. It’s so wrong that people are making stuff up that is not just untrue but is the near opposite of reality.
Source?
I can't tell if Taran is joking with the line about people making stuff up there.
I only know of one person who went to ICU and survived. It hasn't been 12 months yet, but he seems to be doing fine.
The mortality rate is higher, but not quite that bad. According to this (https://www.pennlive.com/news/2021/12/new-study-finds-people-who-survive-a-covid-19-hospitalization-still-more-likely-to-die-within-a-year.html) article, the mortality rate in a small, localized study was 233% higher than the control group, and most were not heart or lung related.
Darn it, this is what I was thinking of. 233% higher (so basically double chances of death), not half the people die. Also, small study. My brain remembers stuff weirdly sometimes. Thanks for the correction.
My sentiment remains the same. People are worried about the vaccine, and the reality is that getting severe Covid probably makes you more than twice as likely to die in the next year as you would be without. Meanwhile, the vaccine strongly reduces the likelihood of severe Covid. The misinformation is sad.
I find the constant shifting of goal posts irritating to say the least.
We've gone from "safe and effective" all the way to "you can still get it, you can still spread it, you still need to wear masks, should restrict your social interactions, maintain distance in those you still have but at least it won't be as bad if you catch it." (and that doesn't even engage on the development of the "safe" part of the original claim)
Maybe it's time to admit it's not a vaccine but merely a prophylactic treatment you need to refresh every couple of months.
People are turning this into some sort of religion and fight each other over it instead of looking at data and drawing conclusions. That's not at all how science works.
Right there. In your first sentence.
That's HOW science works, particularly in areas that are brand new to research. Conclusions change as new data is found.
You know, like a never-before encountered disease that's mutating -- fancy scientific word for CHANGING -- as it works its way thru the world's population.
The problem isn't that scientific conclusions are changing as new evidence is found. The problem is that a whole lot of people want to learn something once and never, ever have to change their mind about it -- and that's a sub-optimal life strategy too many of them want to impose on everyone else.
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So weird. The actual statistics are indicating that of the people who were hospitalized with severe Covid but survived and went home, 50% die within 12 months. It’s so wrong that people are making stuff up that is not just untrue but is the near opposite of reality.
Source?
I can't tell if Taran is joking with the line about people making stuff up there.
I only know of one person who went to ICU and survived. It hasn't been 12 months yet, but he seems to be doing fine.
The mortality rate is higher, but not quite that bad. According to this (https://www.pennlive.com/news/2021/12/new-study-finds-people-who-survive-a-covid-19-hospitalization-still-more-likely-to-die-within-a-year.html) article, the mortality rate in a small, localized study was 233% higher than the control group, and most were not heart or lung related.
Darn it, this is what I was thinking of. 233% higher (so basically double chances of death), not half the people die. Also, small study. My brain remembers stuff weirdly sometimes. Thanks for the correction.
My sentiment remains the same. People are worried about the vaccine, and the reality is that getting severe Covid probably makes you more than twice as likely to die in the next year as you would be without. Meanwhile, the vaccine strongly reduces the likelihood of severe Covid. The misinformation is sad.
I find the constant shifting of goal posts irritating to say the least.
We've gone from "safe and effective" all the way to "you can still get it, you can still spread it, you still need to wear masks, should restrict your social interactions, maintain distance in those you still have but at least it won't be as bad if you catch it." (and that doesn't even engage on the development of the "safe" part of the original claim)
Maybe it's time to admit it's not a vaccine but merely a prophylactic treatment you need to refresh every couple of months.
People are turning this into some sort of religion and fight each other over it instead of looking at data and drawing conclusions. That's not at all how science works.
Right there. In your first sentence.
That's HOW science works, particularly in areas that are brand new to research. Conclusions change as new data is found.
You know, like a never-before encountered disease that's mutating -- fancy scientific word for CHANGING -- as it works its way thru the world's population.
The problem isn't that scientific conclusions are changing as new evidence is found. The problem is that a whole lot of people want to learn something once and never, ever have to change their mind about it -- and that's a sub-optimal life strategy too many of them want to impose on everyone else.
Oh, but the conclusion is still the same after all these changes: everybody needs to be "vaccinated" (it's not a vaccine)
Everybody who does not get vaccinated (now: does not get a (second) booster) is a certified Bad Person tm and Killing Grandma.
If we were remotely engaging with data, we'd be hearing about treatment options instead.
Talking about treatment options is even demonized as "promoting vaccine hesitancy" and similar neologismic pseudoderogatives
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I find the constant shifting of goal posts irritating to say the least.
Right there. In your first sentence.
That's HOW science works, particularly in areas that are brand new to research. Conclusions change as new data is found.
You know, like a never-before encountered disease that's mutating -- fancy scientific word for CHANGING -- as it works its way thru the world's population.
The problem isn't that scientific conclusions are changing as new evidence is found. The problem is that a whole lot of people want to learn something once and never, ever have to change their mind about it -- and that's a sub-optimal life strategy too many of them want to impose on everyone else.
Oh, but the conclusion is still the same after all these changes: everybody needs to be "vaccinated" (it's not a vaccine)
Everybody who does not get vaccinated (now: does not get a (second) booster) is a certified Bad Person tm and Killing Grandma.
If we were remotely engaging with data, we'd be hearing about treatment options instead.
Talking about treatment options is even demonized as "promoting vaccine hesitancy" and similar neologismic pseudoderogatives
We do talk about treatment options. Doctors and scientists have been working very hard to develop and learn effective treatment options. The fact that the mortality rate has dropped from the early days is very much due to the conversations that doctors and scientists have had amongst themselves.
Note the proviso above. That's doctors and scientists talking amongst themselves. It's not Edgar or Karen, none of whom bothered to learn much of anything in school (or afterwards, for that matter), talking amongst their ilk deciding whether UV rays up the wazoo or swallowing bleach or using horse dewormer is the better treatment. Those folk's rantings about their preferred treatment are just sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Now, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that NOT GETTING THE DISEASE is a SUPERIOR method of damage prevention to that of TREATING THE DISEASE after one has it.
Nor does it take a rocket scientist to figure out that if YOU DON'T GET THE DISEASE YOU CAN'T GIVE THE DISEASE TO SOMEONE ELSE.
THAT's why we're pushing vaccinations. Because they are doing a great job -- and so do social distancing measures. Both reduce the chance of getting the disease and spreading the disease.
Treatments are only effective FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY SICK. That means damage has already been done and the possibility of worse damage is now on the table. So while good treatments are an awesome thing to have, they aren't the first choice.
And here's one other very important point. Those viruses don't GIVE A DAMN about your notions that things should stay the same as the first time you learned them. Those viruses are out there mutating -- i.e., changing and adapting to find more efficient ways to infect other living creatures. They can change with each generation and, boy howdy! the time between generations in a virus is very small compared to that of humans. So get with the program.
I would also suggest you start evaluating your source of news and information -- because you need better ones.
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I find the constant shifting of goal posts irritating to say the least.
Right there. In your first sentence.
That's HOW science works, particularly in areas that are brand new to research. Conclusions change as new data is found.
You know, like a never-before encountered disease that's mutating -- fancy scientific word for CHANGING -- as it works its way thru the world's population.
The problem isn't that scientific conclusions are changing as new evidence is found. The problem is that a whole lot of people want to learn something once and never, ever have to change their mind about it -- and that's a sub-optimal life strategy too many of them want to impose on everyone else.
Oh, but the conclusion is still the same after all these changes: everybody needs to be "vaccinated" (it's not a vaccine)
Everybody who does not get vaccinated (now: does not get a (second) booster) is a certified Bad Person tm and Killing Grandma.
If we were remotely engaging with data, we'd be hearing about treatment options instead.
Talking about treatment options is even demonized as "promoting vaccine hesitancy" and similar neologismic pseudoderogatives
We do talk about treatment options. Doctors and scientists have been working very hard to develop and learn effective treatment options. The fact that the mortality rate has dropped from the early days is very much due to the conversations that doctors and scientists have had amongst themselves.
Note the proviso above. That's doctors and scientists talking amongst themselves. It's not Edgar or Karen, none of whom bothered to learn much of anything in school (or afterwards, for that matter), talking amongst their ilk deciding whether UV rays up the wazoo or swallowing bleach or using horse dewormer is the better treatment. Those folk's rantings about their preferred treatment are just sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Now, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that NOT GETTING THE DISEASE is a SUPERIOR method of damage prevention to that of TREATING THE DISEASE after one has it.
Nor does it take a rocket scientist to figure out that if YOU DON'T GET THE DISEASE YOU CAN'T GIVE THE DISEASE TO SOMEONE ELSE.
THAT's why we're pushing vaccinations. Because they are doing a great job -- and so do social distancing measures. Both reduce the chance of getting the disease and spreading the disease.
Treatments are only effective FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY SICK. That means damage has already been done and the possibility of worse damage is now on the table. So while good treatments are an awesome thing to have, they aren't the first choice.
And here's one other very important point. Those viruses don't GIVE A DAMN about your notions that things should stay the same as the first time you learned them. Those viruses are out there mutating -- i.e., changing and adapting to find more efficient ways to infect other living creatures. They can change with each generation and, boy howdy! the time between generations in a virus is very small compared to that of humans. So get with the program.
I would also suggest you start evaluating your source of news and information -- because you need better ones.
MASSIVE CLAPPING ! ! ! ! ! ! !
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Oww1OS5IY4
Clapping and also a link to Neil DeGrasse Tyson speaking with a head of a company devising treatment options. The treatments are extraordinary and leading the way for treatments for many other diseases. the guy also explains very well how vaccines work, why they don't work for everyone, and how they work for most ppl. Great info on both vaccines and treatments.
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I find the constant shifting of goal posts irritating to say the least.
Right there. In your first sentence.
That's HOW science works, particularly in areas that are brand new to research. Conclusions change as new data is found.
You know, like a never-before encountered disease that's mutating -- fancy scientific word for CHANGING -- as it works its way thru the world's population.
The problem isn't that scientific conclusions are changing as new evidence is found. The problem is that a whole lot of people want to learn something once and never, ever have to change their mind about it -- and that's a sub-optimal life strategy too many of them want to impose on everyone else.
Oh, but the conclusion is still the same after all these changes: everybody needs to be "vaccinated" (it's not a vaccine)
Everybody who does not get vaccinated (now: does not get a (second) booster) is a certified Bad Person tm and Killing Grandma.
If we were remotely engaging with data, we'd be hearing about treatment options instead.
Talking about treatment options is even demonized as "promoting vaccine hesitancy" and similar neologismic pseudoderogatives
We do talk about treatment options. Doctors and scientists have been working very hard to develop and learn effective treatment options. The fact that the mortality rate has dropped from the early days is very much due to the conversations that doctors and scientists have had amongst themselves.
Note the proviso above. That's doctors and scientists talking amongst themselves. It's not Edgar or Karen, none of whom bothered to learn much of anything in school (or afterwards, for that matter), talking amongst their ilk deciding whether UV rays up the wazoo or swallowing bleach or using horse dewormer is the better treatment. Those folk's rantings about their preferred treatment are just sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Now, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that NOT GETTING THE DISEASE is a SUPERIOR method of damage prevention to that of TREATING THE DISEASE after one has it.
Nor does it take a rocket scientist to figure out that if YOU DON'T GET THE DISEASE YOU CAN'T GIVE THE DISEASE TO SOMEONE ELSE.
THAT's why we're pushing vaccinations. Because they are doing a great job -- and so do social distancing measures. Both reduce the chance of getting the disease and spreading the disease.
Treatments are only effective FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY SICK. That means damage has already been done and the possibility of worse damage is now on the table. So while good treatments are an awesome thing to have, they aren't the first choice.
And here's one other very important point. Those viruses don't GIVE A DAMN about your notions that things should stay the same as the first time you learned them. Those viruses are out there mutating -- i.e., changing and adapting to find more efficient ways to infect other living creatures. They can change with each generation and, boy howdy! the time between generations in a virus is very small compared to that of humans. So get with the program.
I would also suggest you start evaluating your source of news and information -- because you need better ones.
MASSIVE CLAPPING ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Amen.
(and I'm writing this as the sibling of a college-educated man who read the Robert Kennedy Jr. book on Fauci and believed what he said. My sib is double-vaccinated but is now refusing to get the booster and has started ingesting 6mg of Ivermectin twice a week. So I'm in a front row seat for this stuff, including finding out what happens to those who have decided to use Ivermectin. Ugh.)
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So weird. The actual statistics are indicating that of the people who were hospitalized with severe Covid but survived and went home, 50% die within 12 months. It’s so wrong that people are making stuff up that is not just untrue but is the near opposite of reality.
Source?
I can't tell if Taran is joking with the line about people making stuff up there.
I only know of one person who went to ICU and survived. It hasn't been 12 months yet, but he seems to be doing fine.
The mortality rate is higher, but not quite that bad. According to this (https://www.pennlive.com/news/2021/12/new-study-finds-people-who-survive-a-covid-19-hospitalization-still-more-likely-to-die-within-a-year.html) article, the mortality rate in a small, localized study was 233% higher than the control group, and most were not heart or lung related.
Darn it, this is what I was thinking of. 233% higher (so basically double chances of death), not half the people die. Also, small study. My brain remembers stuff weirdly sometimes. Thanks for the correction.
My sentiment remains the same. People are worried about the vaccine, and the reality is that getting severe Covid probably makes you more than twice as likely to die in the next year as you would be without. Meanwhile, the vaccine strongly reduces the likelihood of severe Covid. The misinformation is sad.
I find the constant shifting of goal posts irritating to say the least.
We've gone from "safe and effective" all the way to "you can still get it, you can still spread it, you still need to wear masks, should restrict your social interactions, maintain distance in those you still have but at least it won't be as bad if you catch it." (and that doesn't even engage on the development of the "safe" part of the original claim)
Maybe it's time to admit it's not a vaccine but merely a prophylactic treatment you need to refresh every couple of months.
People are turning this into some sort of religion and fight each other over it instead of looking at data and drawing conclusions. That's not at all how science works.
Right there. In your first sentence.
That's HOW science works, particularly in areas that are brand new to research. Conclusions change as new data is found.
You know, like a never-before encountered disease that's mutating -- fancy scientific word for CHANGING -- as it works its way thru the world's population.
The problem isn't that scientific conclusions are changing as new evidence is found. The problem is that a whole lot of people want to learn something once and never, ever have to change their mind about it -- and that's a sub-optimal life strategy too many of them want to impose on everyone else.
Oh, but the conclusion is still the same after all these changes: everybody needs to be "vaccinated" (it's not a vaccine)
Everybody who does not get vaccinated (now: does not get a (second) booster) is a certified Bad Person tm and Killing Grandma.
If we were remotely engaging with data, we'd be hearing about treatment options instead.
Talking about treatment options is even demonized as "promoting vaccine hesitancy" and similar neologismic pseudoderogatives
What the FUCK are you talking about?
The Covid-19 vaccine is a vaccine. It improves immunity to covid 19, some are done the traditional way (Johnson and Johnson) and some are the awesome new mRNA tech (Pfizer, Moderna) that also has the potential to save your life from cancer years down the line! (Yeah, mRNA vaccine research was already underway for CANCER TREATMENT which is frankly awesome)
The improved immunity from ANY of the vaccinations has also been shown to dramatically reduce the chances of getting severe symptoms if you DO catch Covid, which makes sense.... as it improves your bodys ability to fight that virus, so your body gets a head start on the disease.
Lastly, breakthrough infections are a thing, and statistically some vaccinated people will also need treatment. Of COURSE people talking about vaccinations also promote finding more effective treatments. Vaccination makes those treated patients more likely to survive.
Talk to someone in your community who is connected to healthcare and/or science. You are spreading dangerous misinformation, which will stretch this pandemic out even longer. The more people who are vaccinated, the slower the disease will spread, and the easier people will be to treat when they do get it. You also may want to take a course on statistics, because nobody who knows what they are talking about has EVER said masks PREVENT covid, or vaccines PREVENT catching it. Only that they improve your statistical chances, and make a significant positive effect on the problem on a population scale.
The only alternative to you being under educated on this topic (I was as well! I am not a scientist, I just married one) is you are being malicious. I am not a large presence on these forums, but I am fairly sure malicious misinformation is not welcome here.
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I find the constant shifting of goal posts irritating to say the least.
Right there. In your first sentence.
That's HOW science works, particularly in areas that are brand new to research. Conclusions change as new data is found.
You know, like a never-before encountered disease that's mutating -- fancy scientific word for CHANGING -- as it works its way thru the world's population.
The problem isn't that scientific conclusions are changing as new evidence is found. The problem is that a whole lot of people want to learn something once and never, ever have to change their mind about it -- and that's a sub-optimal life strategy too many of them want to impose on everyone else.
Oh, but the conclusion is still the same after all these changes: everybody needs to be "vaccinated" (it's not a vaccine)
Everybody who does not get vaccinated (now: does not get a (second) booster) is a certified Bad Person tm and Killing Grandma.
If we were remotely engaging with data, we'd be hearing about treatment options instead.
Talking about treatment options is even demonized as "promoting vaccine hesitancy" and similar neologismic pseudoderogatives
We do talk about treatment options. Doctors and scientists have been working very hard to develop and learn effective treatment options. The fact that the mortality rate has dropped from the early days is very much due to the conversations that doctors and scientists have had amongst themselves.
Note the proviso above. That's doctors and scientists talking amongst themselves. It's not Edgar or Karen, none of whom bothered to learn much of anything in school (or afterwards, for that matter), talking amongst their ilk deciding whether UV rays up the wazoo or swallowing bleach or using horse dewormer is the better treatment. Those folk's rantings about their preferred treatment are just sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Now, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that NOT GETTING THE DISEASE is a SUPERIOR method of damage prevention to that of TREATING THE DISEASE after one has it.
Nor does it take a rocket scientist to figure out that if YOU DON'T GET THE DISEASE YOU CAN'T GIVE THE DISEASE TO SOMEONE ELSE.
THAT's why we're pushing vaccinations. Because they are doing a great job -- and so do social distancing measures. Both reduce the chance of getting the disease and spreading the disease.
Treatments are only effective FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY SICK. That means damage has already been done and the possibility of worse damage is now on the table. So while good treatments are an awesome thing to have, they aren't the first choice.
And here's one other very important point. Those viruses don't GIVE A DAMN about your notions that things should stay the same as the first time you learned them. Those viruses are out there mutating -- i.e., changing and adapting to find more efficient ways to infect other living creatures. They can change with each generation and, boy howdy! the time between generations in a virus is very small compared to that of humans. So get with the program.
I would also suggest you start evaluating your source of news and information -- because you need better ones.
case in point on religious fanaticism on the issue.
it's impossible to have a conversation on this topic when you're just going to throw someone who's vaccinated and following guidelines into a grand old pot of flat earthers and Q-anon believers because they've read studies and stopped agreeing with the narrative.
"Now, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that NOT GETTING THE DISEASE is a SUPERIOR method of damage prevention to that of TREATING THE DISEASE after one has it."
since there's no complete protection, simply preventing everybody, or at least the willing, from getting the disease is not an option.
"Treatments are only effective FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY SICK. That means damage has already been done and the possibility of worse damage is now on the table. So while good treatments are an awesome thing to have, they aren't the first choice."
A good treatment doesn't begin when you're too sick to stay out of the ICU
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Any chance we can move this conversation to one of the numerous COVID related threads and get this thread back on track? I don't come here for the COVID arguments, I come here to hear stories about your dumb af coworkers and the poor decisions they make. Christ.
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Any chance we can move this conversation to one of the numerous COVID related threads and get this thread back on track? I don't come here for the COVID arguments, I come here to hear stories about your dumb af coworkers and the poor decisions they make. Christ.
Just as the conversation was starting to make me think of some of my dumb coworkers and the poor decisions they make… :-p
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Any chance we can move this conversation to one of the numerous COVID related threads and get this thread back on track? I don't come here for the COVID arguments, I come here to hear stories about your dumb af coworkers and the poor decisions they make. Christ.
Just as the conversation was starting to make me think of some of my dumb coworkers and the poor decisions they make… :-p
Got any stories...?
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Any chance we can move this conversation to one of the numerous COVID related threads and get this thread back on track? I don't come here for the COVID arguments, I come here to hear stories about your dumb af coworkers and the poor decisions they make. Christ.
Just as the conversation was starting to make me think of some of my dumb coworkers and the poor decisions they make… :-p
Got any stories...?
None that don’t involve the subject you suggested we move away from…
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Any chance we can move this conversation to one of the numerous COVID related threads and get this thread back on track? I don't come here for the COVID arguments, I come here to hear stories about your dumb af coworkers and the poor decisions they make. Christ.
And just when I was going to share my two bits... but you're right, I'll go find a COVID thread.
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Back on topic...
I live in Shanghai. Our company has recommended that no one leave the city over the Christmas season, mainly because the laws here are quite strict, and if you travel somewhere which ends up being a medium or high risk area (even one COVID case in the neighborhood will turn the neighborhood into a medium risk area), you will be forced to quarantine for two weeks either at your vacation destination or when you return to Shanghai, and the company cannot afford to have large groups of employees away from work (most of us have to be physically present to do our jobs).
The anti-Mustachian piece is that many people booked non-refundable vacations to Sanya (a warm, tropical, beachy part of China) a few months ago. Now they are all freaking out because everyone is cancelling their traveling plans, and they're stuck with a $$$ vacation package to a five-star resort hotel.
I'm like, "Folks, if you're in the middle of a pandemic and living in a country that can get locked down at a moment's notice, pay that extra few hundred dollars and get a refundable package." Or make a decision to do a staycation. I can understand their desire to get away though...it's been a long pandemic.
Sanya is really nice specially this time of the year. Been there on vacation in 2014. Loved it.
Yes, refundable tickets are the way to go for the foreseeable future.
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Alright, I have a shorty from this week:
Coworker is peeved about last year's 3% raise. Says that they don't care about how much compensation is covered by 401k matching automatic deposits or the ESOP program, that the salary is the only thing that matters. Verbatim: "I don't care about retirement, I want the money now." I asked what their comparison salary research was showing for a wage gap, they said they haven't looked into it.
Eeesh.
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Alright, I have a shorty from this week:
Coworker is peeved about last year's 3% raise. Says that they don't care about how much compensation is covered by 401k matching automatic deposits or the ESOP program, that the salary is the only thing that matters. Verbatim: "I don't care about retirement, I want the money now." I asked what their comparison salary research was showing for a wage gap, they said they haven't looked into it.
Eeesh.
Well I'm sure they'll have a comfortable retirement with that mindset...
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Alright, I have a shorty from this week:
Coworker is peeved about last year's 3% raise. Says that they don't care about how much compensation is covered by 401k matching automatic deposits or the ESOP program, that the salary is the only thing that matters. Verbatim: "I don't care about retirement, I want the money now." I asked what their comparison salary research was showing for a wage gap, they said they haven't looked into it.
Eeesh.
Well I'm sure they'll have a comfortable retirement with that mindset...
All one week of it. ;-)
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This may not be too big of an "overheard at work" but I have one from a few years ago.
I am a teacher in a state with a rather "safe" pension. As such myself and my colleagues have access to a 403(b), Roth 403(b), 457, and obviously both IRA options. It is pretty easy to retire at a normal age of 60 with minimal personal investment due to our pension.
A couple of years ago the topic of the lottery came up between a few co-workers. Someone asked, "How much would you have to win today to be able to retire." I was only 28 and I said something to the tune of $2 mil could provide a pretty comfortable life for another 60 years if I was careful.
Two others, both in their 50s, were blown away by my answer and said if they got $2 mil today they wouldn't be able to retire. I tried to explain to them just how much money a year you can get from $2 mil in perpetuity if you adhere to a conservative SWR. It was like talking to a brick wall.
$2 million would likely provide nearly their entire salary. If they couldn't afford to retire on that then how do the manage to live currently?
My thoughts exactly. Not sure they understand how any of this works haha.
And why should they? Really, when those people were getting hired, pensions were normal for a lot of Americans. Even now, with the market on a crazy tear for the past 12 years, only ~ 50% of Americans have ANYTHING invested in the stock market.
For my mom, single divorcee with three kids in the 1970's, she couldn't even get an account with the WATER company; she had to have her dad co-sign the account when my dad left!!!
We are WEIRD. I think we forget that sometimes. But most people don't think about the stock market as accessible, or trustworthy, or even something that middle class folks participate in...
Good point, I don't really consider myself very mustachian (I'm working on it). Regardless, it seems that I have a very unique mindset on investing, retirement, spending, and saving when compared to my co-workers and many of my friends and family.
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Not my work, and about 25 years ago....:
my very unmustachian friend lives and works in the UK, and she told me she had joined a 'Christmas Club'. I asked her what she meant, thinking it was similar to a Secret Santa, but it turned out to be an annual savings programme, where people would pay GBP10 a month to the 'President' of the Club, and then receive GBP110 in December, right on time for their Christmas shopping. The 'President' would keep GBP10 as a fee. My friend thought this was an excellent opportunity, because otherwise she wouldn't save at all.
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Not my work, and about 25 years ago....:
my very unmustachian friend lives and works in the UK, and she told me she had joined a 'Christmas Club'. I asked her what she meant, thinking it was similar to a Secret Santa, but it turned out to be an annual savings programme, where people would pay GBP10 a month to the 'President' of the Club, and then receive GBP110 in December, right on time for their Christmas shopping. The 'President' would keep GBP10 as a fee. My friend thought this was an excellent opportunity, because otherwise she wouldn't save at all.
Meanwhile the president compiles a list of potential investors for their soon-to-be-started ponzi/mlm scheme.
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Not my work, and about 25 years ago....:
my very unmustachian friend lives and works in the UK, and she told me she had joined a 'Christmas Club'. I asked her what she meant, thinking it was similar to a Secret Santa, but it turned out to be an annual savings programme, where people would pay GBP10 a month to the 'President' of the Club, and then receive GBP110 in December, right on time for their Christmas shopping. The 'President' would keep GBP10 as a fee. My friend thought this was an excellent opportunity, because otherwise she wouldn't save at all.
WTF???
God, it is face-palmingly insane to me to hear about people who cannot manage to scrape together enough will-power to put an amount of money in a savings account, but can do this.
For some reason, it reminds me of a friend who is a teacher, and so bad with money that I have had to distance myself from her because her life stresses me out so much. She gets paid 9 months out of the year, but does not put aside the money every month to carry her through the three months of the summer. Instead, she lives off of credit cards all summer, going into debt, and then has to pay those cards off over the course of the next year, including the interest of course. But she never quite manages to pay the whole thing off, so she still has a balance when the next summer comes around… lather, rinse, repeat…
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Not my work, and about 25 years ago....:
my very unmustachian friend lives and works in the UK, and she told me she had joined a 'Christmas Club'. I asked her what she meant, thinking it was similar to a Secret Santa, but it turned out to be an annual savings programme, where people would pay GBP10 a month to the 'President' of the Club, and then receive GBP110 in December, right on time for their Christmas shopping. The 'President' would keep GBP10 as a fee. My friend thought this was an excellent opportunity, because otherwise she wouldn't save at all.
WTF???
God, it is face-palmingly insane to me to hear about people who cannot manage to scrape together enough will-power to put an amount of money in a savings account, but can do this.
For some reason, it reminds me of a friend who is a teacher, and so bad with money that I have had to distance myself from her because her life stresses me out so much. She gets paid 9 months out of the year, but does not put aside the money every month to carry her through the three months of the summer. Instead, she lives off of credit cards all summer, going into debt, and then has to pay those cards off over the course of the next year, including the interest of course. But she never quite manages to pay the whole thing off, so she still has a balance when the next summer comes around… lather, rinse, repeat…
I have a friend who casually mentioned that she does this as a school staff member on a 10 month pay schedule. I was shocked! Her monthly pay only just covers spending during the school year. She tries to pay the monthly balance on time to avoid interest, but it creates a cycle of always being a month behind and never saving anything.
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We had a teacher friend who did this out of college. Buy all the things during the school year, pay them off (mostly) with extra work during the summer. She bought a brand new car on graduation (when she had a job lined up for the fall). She could not understand at all why we kept our beater cars and the furniture we'd scooped up from the side of the road on move-out weekend and rarely ate out; she also could not understand at all how we could possibly afford to take 3 years off (with a completely paid off boat) to sail the Eastern Caribbean after only 3 years of working.
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Not my work, and about 25 years ago....:
my very unmustachian friend lives and works in the UK, and she told me she had joined a 'Christmas Club'. I asked her what she meant, thinking it was similar to a Secret Santa, but it turned out to be an annual savings programme, where people would pay GBP10 a month to the 'President' of the Club, and then receive GBP110 in December, right on time for their Christmas shopping. The 'President' would keep GBP10 as a fee. My friend thought this was an excellent opportunity, because otherwise she wouldn't save at all.
WTF???
God, it is face-palmingly insane to me to hear about people who cannot manage to scrape together enough will-power to put an amount of money in a savings account, but can do this.
For some reason, it reminds me of a friend who is a teacher, and so bad with money that I have had to distance myself from her because her life stresses me out so much. She gets paid 9 months out of the year, but does not put aside the money every month to carry her through the three months of the summer. Instead, she lives off of credit cards all summer, going into debt, and then has to pay those cards off over the course of the next year, including the interest of course. But she never quite manages to pay the whole thing off, so she still has a balance when the next summer comes around… lather, rinse, repeat…
I knew this guy at a restaurant job in college. He worked more hours than me, as he wasn't a student, but he borrowed $20 from me a few days before payday, almost every time. As a grad student, I had two friends with the same problem. Always ran out of money just before their student loan checks came. One had worked in their career for nearly a decade before coming to grad school vs the one year I worked between degrees.
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Not my work, and about 25 years ago....:
my very unmustachian friend lives and works in the UK, and she told me she had joined a 'Christmas Club'. I asked her what she meant, thinking it was similar to a Secret Santa, but it turned out to be an annual savings programme, where people would pay GBP10 a month to the 'President' of the Club, and then receive GBP110 in December, right on time for their Christmas shopping. The 'President' would keep GBP10 as a fee. My friend thought this was an excellent opportunity, because otherwise she wouldn't save at all.
WOW!
I don't have a thing for Christmas, but suddenly I want to be the president of the biggest Christmas club there is!
Money lenders, banksters and Christmas club presidents. What a group!
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Isn't this just a Sous-sous or RASCA by another name?
I suppose the difficult thing is that everyone's need for funds lines up...someone could start a RASCA where Orthodox and Western Christians pool their funds for christmas gifts at different times.
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Isn't this just a Sous-sous or RASCA by another name?
I suppose the difficult thing is that everyone's need for funds lines up...someone could start a RASCA where Orthodox and Western Christians pool their funds for christmas gifts at different times.
OK, I came up with a ballet jump and Spanish for scratch. What the heck are sous sous and RASCA?
My Mom always used the Christmas Club at the bank, but that was the 70s and 80s and they paid the same interest as regular savings accounts.
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Isn't this just a Sous-sous or RASCA by another name?
I suppose the difficult thing is that everyone's need for funds lines up...someone could start a RASCA where Orthodox and Western Christians pool their funds for christmas gifts at different times.
OK, I came up with a ballet jump and Spanish for scratch. What the heck are sous sous and RASCA?
My Mom always used the Christmas Club at the bank, but that was the 70s and 80s and they paid the same interest as regular savings accounts.
Yeah, I remember going to the bank with my grandma in the 80s and seeing the signs for Christmas Club accounts. In retrospect, it seems like it was a cross between a savings account and a short-term CD: you put money in weekly or monthly, and it accrued interest, but you couldn't withdraw it without penalty until a set date.
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It’s very different but makes me think of “layaway” programs. Do stores still do those? I heard some story at work recently about a local philanthropist paying off a lot of layaway accounts at Christmas time.
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Our bank still has a Christmas club, but then it's small, local, and pretty old school.
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Isn't this just a Sous-sous or RASCA by another name?
I suppose the difficult thing is that everyone's need for funds lines up...someone could start a RASCA where Orthodox and Western Christians pool their funds for christmas gifts at different times.
OK, I came up with a ballet jump and Spanish for scratch. What the heck are sous sous and RASCA?
My Mom always used the Christmas Club at the bank, but that was the 70s and 80s and they paid the same interest as regular savings accounts.
In a number of cultures it is common to use a form of peer-to-peer lending/savings. I am used to the word "tanda" in the hispanic world, but "su-su" is used in other parts of the Caribbean. One organizes a group. Each puts in a set amount monthly. Each month, a different member of the group is given the collected pot. It is common to use the money for a side hustle, but also for social obligations. It generally doesn't pay interest, but it generally considered easier than saving on your own, especially for the unbanked. Social pressure of disappointing a group of people you know are counting on you generally keeps people depositing month after month. In some instances, a member of the group may take a fee for the bookkeeping.
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Isn't this just a Sous-sous or RASCA by another name?
I suppose the difficult thing is that everyone's need for funds lines up...someone could start a RASCA where Orthodox and Western Christians pool their funds for christmas gifts at different times.
OK, I came up with a ballet jump and Spanish for scratch. What the heck are sous sous and RASCA?
My Mom always used the Christmas Club at the bank, but that was the 70s and 80s and they paid the same interest as regular savings accounts.
In a number of cultures it is common to use a form of peer-to-peer lending/savings. I am used to the word "tanda" in the hispanic world, but "su-su" is used in other parts of the Caribbean. One organizes a group. Each puts in a set amount monthly. Each month, a different member of the group is given the collected pot. It is common to use the money for a side hustle, but also for social obligations. It generally doesn't pay interest, but it generally considered easier than saving on your own, especially for the unbanked. Social pressure of disappointing a group of people you know are counting on you generally keeps people depositing month after month. In some instances, a member of the group may take a fee for the bookkeeping.
Where I live (the NL) carnival is celebrated and it's a massive event with days of drinking. Many bars offer regulars the option of putting away a little bit of money every week so they have a lot of beer money on carnival Friday. Often in the form of an old fashioned wooden box with many little slots in them, every regular gets their own slot. People throw in money every week until carnival (or sometimes the local fair or end of year). It's actually an important part of the cultural heritage of working class people, factory and farm workers and the like. They did not have access to bank accounts like we do.
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Isn't this just a Sous-sous or RASCA by another name?
I suppose the difficult thing is that everyone's need for funds lines up...someone could start a RASCA where Orthodox and Western Christians pool their funds for christmas gifts at different times.
OK, I came up with a ballet jump and Spanish for scratch. What the heck are sous sous and RASCA?
My Mom always used the Christmas Club at the bank, but that was the 70s and 80s and they paid the same interest as regular savings accounts.
In a number of cultures it is common to use a form of peer-to-peer lending/savings. I am used to the word "tanda" in the hispanic world, but "su-su" is used in other parts of the Caribbean. One organizes a group. Each puts in a set amount monthly. Each month, a different member of the group is given the collected pot. It is common to use the money for a side hustle, but also for social obligations. It generally doesn't pay interest, but it generally considered easier than saving on your own, especially for the unbanked. Social pressure of disappointing a group of people you know are counting on you generally keeps people depositing month after month. In some instances, a member of the group may take a fee for the bookkeeping.
There is another big reason these kinds of savings systems are used as well.
In many cultures certain members of the household might have a near unfettered social right to take the money in the family and spend it on whatever. For example the husband often has the authority to take the money of his wife and children to spend it on whatever he wants. And so if the money is at home or in a bank he can easily take it, but if it is kept with other members the community for safekeeping then it becomes a lot harder to demand access to the money without good reason.
On top of that of course the other big reason to use these savings groups other than the lack of access to banks is that often banks are not trusted due to corruption or an inability of many to understand what good a bank will do for them (especially if there are cultural/language barriers).
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My sister-in-law is African, living in The Netherlands, and has joined a group of women with a similar background to meet once a month and pay into a savings pot, which is called a 'tontine' (that's a French word :)). Originally, it was meant to send one of their group to Macca every year, but currently it's used for urgent needs, strictly on a rota.
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My grandmother, Chinese but educated in France, also used the word 'tontine' to refer to a similar savings rota she belonged to in a North American Chinatown.
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I wonder how they came to use that word. My understanding of it has always been a last to die trust kind of set up. Perhaps that interpretation is specific to English Common Law, rather than the French original.
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I wonder how they came to use that word. My understanding of it has always been a last to die trust kind of set up. Perhaps that interpretation is specific to English Common Law, rather than the French original.
That's certainly the popular understanding of the word, but I don't think that it is historically accurate (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/tontine.asp).
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I wonder how they came to use that word. My understanding of it has always been a last to die trust kind of set up. Perhaps that interpretation is specific to English Common Law, rather than the French original.
I think a tontine is generally speaking a pot of money that several people contribute to, to the benefit of one of them. The "last to die" set up is basically a version of that - you can still do that in France (either the last to die (often for real estate), or the survivors after X years (insurance / savings kind of thing)).
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Isn't this just a Sous-sous or RASCA by another name?
I suppose the difficult thing is that everyone's need for funds lines up...someone could start a RASCA where Orthodox and Western Christians pool their funds for christmas gifts at different times.
OK, I came up with a ballet jump and Spanish for scratch. What the heck are sous sous and RASCA?
My Mom always used the Christmas Club at the bank, but that was the 70s and 80s and they paid the same interest as regular savings accounts.
Yeah, I remember going to the bank with my grandma in the 80s and seeing the signs for Christmas Club accounts. In retrospect, it seems like it was a cross between a savings account and a short-term CD: you put money in weekly or monthly, and it accrued interest, but you couldn't withdraw it without penalty until a set date.
My parents have done this for years. That's a good description for it. It earns the exact same interest as a savings account, but can't be accessed until around Thanksgiving. It's a decent enough program for people who don't have the discipline to do it themselves.
In extreme cases (like the time that dad accidentally transferred the mortgage payment to the xmas club account instead of making that month's payment) it can be accessed early. But it's difficult to do.
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We set up a Christmas club account about 20 years ago. B/c we've never changed banks, it still functions the same. We don't really need it now but we just let it run its course. I think it's max amount is $350 or so.
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We set up a Christmas club account about 20 years ago. B/c we've never changed banks, it still functions the same. We don't really need it now but we just let it run its course. I think it's max amount is $350 or so.
Nowadays that $350 seems like a pretty frugal Christmas budget by most people's standards!
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It’s very different but makes me think of “layaway” programs. Do stores still do those? I heard some story at work recently about a local philanthropist paying off a lot of layaway accounts at Christmas time.
My local butcher does a Christmas layaway account, people pay in £5 a month and then get £60 of meat at Christmas. He doesn't charge them anything to do it.
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It’s very different but makes me think of “layaway” programs. Do stores still do those? I heard some story at work recently about a local philanthropist paying off a lot of layaway accounts at Christmas time.
There might be a few, likely independent, stores. I think Walmart axed their layaway program in 2021 in favor of Affirm (a buy now pay later third-party company).
I once worked at a store once that sold a niche holiday product. We did layaway. About half the time it was because people wanted to come in and buy while the the selection was good, but didn't want to have to store it at their house for a couple of months.
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It’s very different but makes me think of “layaway” programs. Do stores still do those? I heard some story at work recently about a local philanthropist paying off a lot of layaway accounts at Christmas time.
My local butcher does a Christmas layaway account, people pay in £5 a month and then get £60 of meat at Christmas. He doesn't charge them anything to do it.
That's really smart. It's guaranteed income for the butcher, plus it would help with planning orders from suppliers during the busy season. Customers would also be assured of getting good meat for their dinners and/or gifts.
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We set up a Christmas club account about 20 years ago. B/c we've never changed banks, it still functions the same. We don't really need it now but we just let it run its course. I think it's max amount is $350 or so.
Nowadays that $350 seems like a pretty frugal Christmas budget by most people's standards!
It is. We spend more than that. I'm not motivated enough to go switch it off.
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My 15 year old daughter was displeased with the 30 dollar phone I bought her so she decided to get a job to buy herself the latest iphone. She got a job 2 hours a day after school at a day care. She came home one day and said, "Mom, there are people who work there that are your age. How do they live on what I make?" Then when they had a secret santa with a 10 dollar limit, one of her middle aged coworkers declined and said they couldn't afford it. My daughter came home in disbelief. She said, "Mom, I know that there are people who are working poor, but it's so different when you know them. I can't believe that someone my parents age could be so poor. I guess I never thought that my parents could run out of money."
I'd say that she learned a lesson more valuable than her iphone.
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hounton, that may be one of the best $30 you ever spent!
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My 15 year old daughter was displeased with the 30 dollar phone I bought her so she decided to get a job to buy herself the latest iphone. She got a job 2 hours a day after school at a day care. She came home one day and said, "Mom, there are people who work there that are your age. How do they live on what I make?" Then when they had a secret santa with a 10 dollar limit, one of her middle aged coworkers declined and said they couldn't afford it. My daughter came home in disbelief. She said, "Mom, I know that there are people who are working poor, but it's so different when you know them. I can't believe that someone my parents age could be so poor. I guess I never thought that my parents could run out of money."
I'd say that she learned a lesson more valuable than her iphone.
Ask your daughter what phone that person who could not afford 10$ owned.
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My 15 year old daughter was displeased with the 30 dollar phone I bought her so she decided to get a job to buy herself the latest iphone. She got a job 2 hours a day after school at a day care. She came home one day and said, "Mom, there are people who work there that are your age. How do they live on what I make?" Then when they had a secret santa with a 10 dollar limit, one of her middle aged coworkers declined and said they couldn't afford it. My daughter came home in disbelief. She said, "Mom, I know that there are people who are working poor, but it's so different when you know them. I can't believe that someone my parents age could be so poor. I guess I never thought that my parents could run out of money."
I'd say that she learned a lesson more valuable than her iphone.
Ask your daughter what phone that person who could not afford 10$ owned.
There's a part of me that expects the answer to be a top of the range, latest model iPhone.
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My 15 year old daughter was displeased with the 30 dollar phone I bought her so she decided to get a job to buy herself the latest iphone. She got a job 2 hours a day after school at a day care. She came home one day and said, "Mom, there are people who work there that are your age. How do they live on what I make?" Then when they had a secret santa with a 10 dollar limit, one of her middle aged coworkers declined and said they couldn't afford it. My daughter came home in disbelief. She said, "Mom, I know that there are people who are working poor, but it's so different when you know them. I can't believe that someone my parents age could be so poor. I guess I never thought that my parents could run out of money."
I'd say that she learned a lesson more valuable than her iphone.
Ask your daughter what phone that person who could not afford 10$ owned.
There's a part of me that expects the answer to be a top of the range, latest model iPhone.
This is indeed an amazing story! Well done @hounton junior both for getting the job in the first place and also doing all that growing up and thinking. Now I’m curious whether this affected her own phone buying plans. I wouldn’t blame her if she still got the phone she originally wanted, but I guess the experience has made her think a lot about future earning and spending.
My kids are younger, but I have a lot of friends with kids the same age, who are now independently realising that how they do now at school influences what schools they get into next, which in turn influences their future studies and thereby their future jobs and earning power… their parents are positively glowing when talking about it!
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My 15 year old daughter was displeased with the 30 dollar phone I bought her so she decided to get a job to buy herself the latest iphone. She got a job 2 hours a day after school at a day care. She came home one day and said, "Mom, there are people who work there that are your age. How do they live on what I make?" Then when they had a secret santa with a 10 dollar limit, one of her middle aged coworkers declined and said they couldn't afford it. My daughter came home in disbelief. She said, "Mom, I know that there are people who are working poor, but it's so different when you know them. I can't believe that someone my parents age could be so poor. I guess I never thought that my parents could run out of money."
I'd say that she learned a lesson more valuable than her iphone.
Ask your daughter what phone that person who could not afford 10$ owned.
There's a part of me that expects the answer to be a top of the range, latest model iPhone.
This is indeed an amazing story! Well done @hounton junior both for getting the job in the first place and also doing all that growing up and thinking. Now I’m curious whether this affected her own phone buying plans. I wouldn’t blame her if she still got the phone she originally wanted, but I guess the experience has made her think a lot about future earning and spending.
My kids are younger, but I have a lot of friends with kids the same age, who are now independently realising that how they do now at school influences what schools they get into next, which in turn influences their future studies and thereby their future jobs and earning power… their parents are positively glowing when talking about it!
I know someone (21) who decided to take a gap year after her bachelor's. She was kinda sorta wanting to do a PhD but not a Master's (!), maybe, you know, next year. She found a job, loosely related to her major, industry-wise, but entry level, and lasted all of two weeks. It made her realize that she really needed to finish her education and at least get a Master's if she didn't want to end up doing this kind of jobs forever, and that maybe her parents didn't get where they are by sheer luck or pure privilege.
So she got serious about finding a real job for the PhD. She then realized that it wouldn't be as easy as she thought, since you know, she's competing with people who do have a Master's, so she also registered for a Master's next fall if that didn't work.
"You were right", she said to everybody who warned her last summer.
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There are pros and cons to each type of RV. Everyone has to figure out their own sweet spot. I will likely change up as time goes by. Living in an RV that is easier than changing houses because the size or location doesn't fit anymore.
This is true, however the downside of that extra flexibility, at least from the one couple I know who have lived full time in an RV for the last 8 years, is that they have gone through 5 RVs in those 8 years adapting to whatever best suit them at the time. Honestly, buying, learning all the maintenance and ins and outs, then selling 5 different RVs over that time sounds kind of exhausting. Also, it cost a lot more than they expected going to RV life because of constant changes in the RVs. They sold their house at I think ~400k 8 years ago, but that house has gone up to at least 700k in those 8 years. Meanwhile their RVs have been mostly between 40-70k, and mostly sold close to what they bought them for, but they’ve usually put 5-10k into each one of them in upgrades/solar/repairs/skirting etc so they probably burnt well over 50k in depreciation/transaction cost in 8 years
If they used $50k from the house sale toward an RV and put the rest in the S&P 500 in January 2004, today they would have a $50k RV plus ~$950M.
Houses require maintenance expenses as well, of course. Even still neglecting that they would have come out WAY ahead. Like $200k + a $50k RV.
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My 15 year old daughter was displeased with the 30 dollar phone I bought her so she decided to get a job to buy herself the latest iphone. She got a job 2 hours a day after school at a day care. She came home one day and said, "Mom, there are people who work there that are your age. How do they live on what I make?" Then when they had a secret santa with a 10 dollar limit, one of her middle aged coworkers declined and said they couldn't afford it. My daughter came home in disbelief. She said, "Mom, I know that there are people who are working poor, but it's so different when you know them. I can't believe that someone my parents age could be so poor. I guess I never thought that my parents could run out of money."
I'd say that she learned a lesson more valuable than her iphone.
Ask your daughter what phone that person who could not afford 10$ owned.
There's a part of me that expects the answer to be a top of the range, latest model iPhone.
This is indeed an amazing story! Well done @hounton junior both for getting the job in the first place and also doing all that growing up and thinking. Now I’m curious whether this affected her own phone buying plans. I wouldn’t blame her if she still got the phone she originally wanted, but I guess the experience has made her think a lot about future earning and spending.
My kids are younger, but I have a lot of friends with kids the same age, who are now independently realising that how they do now at school influences what schools they get into next, which in turn influences their future studies and thereby their future jobs and earning power… their parents are positively glowing when talking about it!
I know someone (21) who decided to take a gap year after her bachelor's. She was kinda sorta wanting to do a PhD but not a Master's (!), maybe, you know, next year. She found a job, loosely related to her major, industry-wise, but entry level, and lasted all of two weeks. It made her realize that she really needed to finish her education and at least get a Master's if she didn't want to end up doing this kind of jobs forever, and that maybe her parents didn't get where they are by sheer luck or pure privilege.
So she got serious about finding a real job for the PhD. She then realized that it wouldn't be as easy as she thought, since you know, she's competing with people who do have a Master's, so she also registered for a Master's next fall if that didn't work.
"You were right", she said to everybody who warned her last summer.
Hey, don’t knock it :-) I did a PhD straight after my BSc. What I never did was take a gap year, and I’m desperate to take one now. It’ll be my FIRE test run.
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The "Christmas Club" concept is new to me, but I know a few people who opt to pay extra in taxes throughout the year in order to get a bigger refund because they don't have the discipline to save the money themselves. Of course, they'll almost always blow their refund check on some new toy within a few weeks of receiving it.
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My 15 year old daughter was displeased with the 30 dollar phone I bought her so she decided to get a job to buy herself the latest iphone. She got a job 2 hours a day after school at a day care. She came home one day and said, "Mom, there are people who work there that are your age. How do they live on what I make?" Then when they had a secret santa with a 10 dollar limit, one of her middle aged coworkers declined and said they couldn't afford it. My daughter came home in disbelief. She said, "Mom, I know that there are people who are working poor, but it's so different when you know them. I can't believe that someone my parents age could be so poor. I guess I never thought that my parents could run out of money."
I'd say that she learned a lesson more valuable than her iphone.
Ask your daughter what phone that person who could not afford 10$ owned.
There's a part of me that expects the answer to be a top of the range, latest model iPhone.
This is indeed an amazing story! Well done @hounton junior both for getting the job in the first place and also doing all that growing up and thinking. Now I’m curious whether this affected her own phone buying plans. I wouldn’t blame her if she still got the phone she originally wanted, but I guess the experience has made her think a lot about future earning and spending.
My kids are younger, but I have a lot of friends with kids the same age, who are now independently realising that how they do now at school influences what schools they get into next, which in turn influences their future studies and thereby their future jobs and earning power… their parents are positively glowing when talking about it!
I know someone (21) who decided to take a gap year after her bachelor's. She was kinda sorta wanting to do a PhD but not a Master's (!), maybe, you know, next year. She found a job, loosely related to her major, industry-wise, but entry level, and lasted all of two weeks. It made her realize that she really needed to finish her education and at least get a Master's if she didn't want to end up doing this kind of jobs forever, and that maybe her parents didn't get where they are by sheer luck or pure privilege.
So she got serious about finding a real job for the PhD. She then realized that it wouldn't be as easy as she thought, since you know, she's competing with people who do have a Master's, so she also registered for a Master's next fall if that didn't work.
"You were right", she said to everybody who warned her last summer.
Hey, don’t knock it :-) I did a PhD straight after my BSc. What I never did was take a gap year, and I’m desperate to take one now. It’ll be my FIRE test run.
Oh I'm not knocking it. I think it's a good idea, actually. But she apparently thought finding - and getting accepted - in the PhD program of a major, reputable college would be as easy as finding the right "internship" and sending her application to the program, and that in the meantime, she'd just find a cool job, maybe.
She realized it's not easy, that competition is a real thing (and she's at a disadvantage due to having only a BsC, very little work experience, and no need to work to support herself (privileged kid)). She also realized backup plans are good to have (hence enrolling into the Master's program in case it doesn't pan out as she wants), and that entry level jobs are neither easy nor fun.
I think this gap year has so far given her very, very useful life lessons. Watching her grow up in the past few months was very cool.
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A guy at work got laid off at age 67, and I was saying to another co-worker how lucky he was, as he gets to collect a year's pay (layoff package) and can wait at least that long to claim Social Security. Oh, no, turns out he claimed at 62, even though he was working and making at least $100k/yr.
When my friend asked him if he realized how much that cost him, he said he didn't care, because all the men in his family died in their 60s. Meanwhile he's got two RVs (couldn't sell the old one but bought a new one anyway) and we're pretty sure he's taken most of his home equity out to buy toys. Good thing his kids are grown and gone!
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My 15 year old daughter was displeased with the 30 dollar phone I bought her so she decided to get a job to buy herself the latest iphone. She got a job 2 hours a day after school at a day care. She came home one day and said, "Mom, there are people who work there that are your age. How do they live on what I make?" Then when they had a secret santa with a 10 dollar limit, one of her middle aged coworkers declined and said they couldn't afford it. My daughter came home in disbelief. She said, "Mom, I know that there are people who are working poor, but it's so different when you know them. I can't believe that someone my parents age could be so poor. I guess I never thought that my parents could run out of money."
I'd say that she learned a lesson more valuable than her iphone.
Ask your daughter what phone that person who could not afford 10$ owned.
There's a part of me that expects the answer to be a top of the range, latest model iPhone.
This is indeed an amazing story! Well done @hounton junior both for getting the job in the first place and also doing all that growing up and thinking. Now I’m curious whether this affected her own phone buying plans. I wouldn’t blame her if she still got the phone she originally wanted, but I guess the experience has made her think a lot about future earning and spending.
My kids are younger, but I have a lot of friends with kids the same age, who are now independently realising that how they do now at school influences what schools they get into next, which in turn influences their future studies and thereby their future jobs and earning power… their parents are positively glowing when talking about it!
I know someone (21) who decided to take a gap year after her bachelor's. She was kinda sorta wanting to do a PhD but not a Master's (!), maybe, you know, next year. She found a job, loosely related to her major, industry-wise, but entry level, and lasted all of two weeks. It made her realize that she really needed to finish her education and at least get a Master's if she didn't want to end up doing this kind of jobs forever, and that maybe her parents didn't get where they are by sheer luck or pure privilege.
So she got serious about finding a real job for the PhD. She then realized that it wouldn't be as easy as she thought, since you know, she's competing with people who do have a Master's, so she also registered for a Master's next fall if that didn't work.
"You were right", she said to everybody who warned her last summer.
Hey, don’t knock it :-) I did a PhD straight after my BSc. What I never did was take a gap year, and I’m desperate to take one now. It’ll be my FIRE test run.
I both took a 5-year gap period after my B.S. and went straight into a PhD program. In my field, if you’re a good candidate, you get a full ride plus living stipend (and usually vacation and health insurance) if you’re accepted to a PhD program. You pay out of pocket for a Master’s degree.
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I don’t know if this should go in the Anti-Mustachian thread or the anti-anti-Mustachian thread.
My coworker was very excited last week because she got paid as she had been pretty broke for about a week. She’s in her 50s and makes probably around $80k a year after-tax. For the record, as expats, our company pays for our housing and health insurance. Most people in this city live on less than $800 a month.
She said that she had opened a Vanguard account and has started sending half her paycheck every month. Yay! So Mustachian! Then she said that she’s painfully broke at the end of the month anyway, so she’d rather have some money in savings and do we think she should stop the Vanguard transfers so that she can have more money to cover her living expenses? Noooo!!!!
Then she said, “Yeah, you’re probably right. I’m going to end up with no money in my bank account at the end of the month anyway, regardless of whether I put money in Vanguard.” Basically, the more money she has in her account the more she spends.
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I don’t know if this should go in the Anti-Mustachian thread or the anti-anti-Mustachian thread. ...
Hmmm, that IS quite the dilemma you're facing. I guess we'll have to see what she does next in order to judgmentally judge her! :P
In any case, I think it's fantastic that she appears to recognize the cause-effect relationship there. That's an important first step.
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There's a part of me that expects the answer to be a top of the range, latest model iPhone.
Around here, if it's a middle-aged lady, it's much more likely to be a very old phone (not an iPhone), with a cracked screen that still remarkably works.
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Coworker got a demo car from the dealership, paid it off in 2 years, then sold it because she "wanted to sell it before the price went down"... Then used that money to get this other new car that was more expensive... also she is always complaining about money.
Another one, my friend, who has a bachelor's degree but has never had a proper job (she hustles), we went to this attraction tour near where I live and she paid for all the silly pictures those theme parks sell at an outrageous price. She didn't really have that much money but said those pictures were a once in a lifetime thing and she would try to cutback later on.
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At work I've been talking for years about my plans for early retirement, how I'm investing. The cult I'm in ;). Imaginary internet friends I'm learing from..
Coworker has a good amount of extra cash. Last week I suggested Roth IRAs since the market was having a little correction. This person is close to 59 years old. "any gains would be tax free." Nope, bought a camper.
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At work I've been talking for years about my plans for early retirement, how I'm investing. The cult I'm in ;). Imaginary internet friends I'm learing from..
Coworker has a good amount of extra cash. Last week I suggested Roth IRAs since the market was having a little correction. This person is close to 59 years old. "any gains would be tax free." Nope, bought a camper.
Could be mustachian if he intends to sell his house and live in it... 😁
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I have a coworker in their early sixties I've posted about before. From cashing out his 403b a few years ago, to buying expensive trucks used mostly for commuting...his belt is notched up with just about any money mistake you can make. He just missed some sort of payment recently and his credit score dropped over 30 points. Anyway, I come into work yesterday having been off a week, and he proceeds to tell me that because the markets "keep going down" and he didn't see a way for them go back up, he rolled over most or all (wasn't clear on that) of his employee retirement account to some sort of annuities at a financial company I had not heard of. So he basically locked in whatever he'd lost. From his brief description, it sounds like maybe some variety of index linked annuity. He did say they can "never go down". I'm sure there's quite a price to be paid for that. Ugh.
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Especially if that company goes bankcrupt, as it goes with a lot of scam companies after their owners have siphoned off a few millions.
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Co-worker made some good returns on crypto a bought a cottage, and is now shocked by the costs of maintaining a second home. With raising energy costs his monthly heating bill during the winter months on his cottage are over $500. The fuel cost to drive there and back keep rising. He just got two property tax bills both due at the same time. On paper the raising values on both his properties show he is still ahead. However, his cash flow issues and expenses are starting to put a dampener on his joys of owning a cottage.
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Co-worker made some good returns on crypto a bought a cottage, and is now shocked by the costs of maintaining a second home. With raising energy costs his monthly heating bill during the winter months on his cottage are over $500. The fuel cost to drive there and back keep rising. He just got two property tax bills both due at the same time. On paper the raising values on both his properties show he is still ahead. However, his cash flow issues and expenses are starting to put a dampener on his joys of owning a cottage.
My brother-in-law just bought a primary home up in the mountains of NW NC. He said the same realtor will often re-sell the same home every few years for the same reason.
People buy a vacation home, visit a bunch for half a year, then don't visit much, then sell it because it's too expensive to own.
So at least someone makes a good living off of this foolishness!
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Co-worker made some good returns on crypto a bought a cottage, and is now shocked by the costs of maintaining a second home. With raising energy costs his monthly heating bill during the winter months on his cottage are over $500. The fuel cost to drive there and back keep rising. He just got two property tax bills both due at the same time. On paper the raising values on both his properties show he is still ahead. However, his cash flow issues and expenses are starting to put a dampener on his joys of owning a cottage.
My brother-in-law just bought a primary home up in the mountains of NW NC. He said the same realtor will often re-sell the same home every few years for the same reason.
People buy a vacation home, visit a bunch for half a year, then don't visit much, then sell it because it's too expensive to own.
So at least someone makes a good living off of this foolishness!
My husband and his coworkers joke that the two rules for financial security are no divorces, and no vacation homes.
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Co-worker made some good returns on crypto a bought a cottage, and is now shocked by the costs of maintaining a second home. With raising energy costs his monthly heating bill during the winter months on his cottage are over $500. The fuel cost to drive there and back keep rising. He just got two property tax bills both due at the same time. On paper the raising values on both his properties show he is still ahead. However, his cash flow issues and expenses are starting to put a dampener on his joys of owning a cottage.
My brother-in-law just bought a primary home up in the mountains of NW NC. He said the same realtor will often re-sell the same home every few years for the same reason.
People buy a vacation home, visit a bunch for half a year, then don't visit much, then sell it because it's too expensive to own.
So at least someone makes a good living off of this foolishness!
My husband and his coworkers joke that the two rules for financial security are no divorces, and no vacation homes.
What about boats?
I am making my own kayak cover, but I drove 45 miles round trip to do a dry fit so that I can finish the project...
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The great thing about plastic kayaks is that if you keep them inside, they practically last forever. That $15/year state invasive species permit really irks me, though.
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The great thing about plastic kayaks is that if you keep them inside, they practically last forever. That $15/year state invasive species permit really irks me, though.
We don't have an inside for it, hence the $$$ cover that needs to be replaced every three years.
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The great thing about plastic kayaks is that if you keep them inside, they practically last forever. That $15/year state invasive species permit really irks me, though.
We don't have an inside for it, hence the $$$ cover that needs to be replaced every three years.
Good call. And better than a boat with a motor and an electrical system and a radio and… wood!
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The great thing about plastic kayaks is that if you keep them inside, they practically last forever. That $15/year state invasive species permit really irks me, though.
We don't have an inside for it, hence the $$$ cover that needs to be replaced every three years.
Good call. And better than a boat with a motor and an electrical system and a radio and… wood!
Oh, we have one of those, too. The kayak fits between the mast and the forestay. Can't wait to move back onboard over the next few months!!
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bumped into my ex-supervisor at ex-employer. asked him if he was on track to retire early at 60.
5 years ago, when we worked together, he had a 2500 sf home, living with wife and kid, daily commute was 45 min round trip.
2018, he bought a 3200 sf home, kid lived with them, daily commute increased to 70-80 minutes round trip. sold old home.
2021, bought a new-build 3800 sf home, kid in college, daily commute increased to 2 hour round trip, sold previous home.
Asked him if he made money on each sale. He said he barely broke even.
He said he's not going to be able to retire before 67.
Man is piling on debt with bigger, more expensive homes and newer cars, has been promoted but salary didn't increase much.
And his wife quit working around 2017. She's in a field that was super-demand during covid, could have made serious six-figure money, but didn't want to work.
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Co-worker made some good returns on crypto a bought a cottage, and is now shocked by the costs of maintaining a second home. With raising energy costs his monthly heating bill during the winter months on his cottage are over $500. The fuel cost to drive there and back keep rising. He just got two property tax bills both due at the same time. On paper the raising values on both his properties show he is still ahead. However, his cash flow issues and expenses are starting to put a dampener on his joys of owning a cottage.
My brother-in-law just bought a primary home up in the mountains of NW NC. He said the same realtor will often re-sell the same home every few years for the same reason.
People buy a vacation home, visit a bunch for half a year, then don't visit much, then sell it because it's too expensive to own.
So at least someone makes a good living off of this foolishness!
My husband and his coworkers joke that the two rules for financial security are no divorces, and no vacation homes.
Not having kids can really jumpstart FIRE as well.
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bumped into my ex-supervisor at ex-employer. asked him if he was on track to retire early at 60.
5 years ago, when we worked together, he had a 2500 sf home, living with wife and kid, daily commute was 45 min round trip.
2018, he bought a 3200 sf home, kid lived with them, daily commute increased to 70-80 minutes round trip. sold old home.
2021, bought a new-build 3800 sf home, kid in college, daily commute increased to 2 hour round trip, sold previous home.
Asked him if he made money on each sale. He said he barely broke even.
He said he's not going to be able to retire before 67.
Man is piling on debt with bigger, more expensive homes and newer cars, has been promoted but salary didn't increase much.
And his wife quit working around 2017. She's in a field that was super-demand during covid, could have made serious six-figure money, but didn't want to work.
Ouch. Well, with the housing market the way it is now, maybe he'll come out okay? He could rent rooms in the 3800 sf house...
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Co-worker made some good returns on crypto a bought a cottage, and is now shocked by the costs of maintaining a second home. With raising energy costs his monthly heating bill during the winter months on his cottage are over $500. The fuel cost to drive there and back keep rising. He just got two property tax bills both due at the same time. On paper the raising values on both his properties show he is still ahead. However, his cash flow issues and expenses are starting to put a dampener on his joys of owning a cottage.
My brother-in-law just bought a primary home up in the mountains of NW NC. He said the same realtor will often re-sell the same home every few years for the same reason.
People buy a vacation home, visit a bunch for half a year, then don't visit much, then sell it because it's too expensive to own.
So at least someone makes a good living off of this foolishness!
My husband and his coworkers joke that the two rules for financial security are no divorces, and no vacation homes.
Not having kids can really jumpstart FIRE as well.
As can having them, if you're the kind of person to be motivated by that.
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Co-worker made some good returns on crypto a bought a cottage, and is now shocked by the costs of maintaining a second home. With raising energy costs his monthly heating bill during the winter months on his cottage are over $500. The fuel cost to drive there and back keep rising. He just got two property tax bills both due at the same time. On paper the raising values on both his properties show he is still ahead. However, his cash flow issues and expenses are starting to put a dampener on his joys of owning a cottage.
My brother-in-law just bought a primary home up in the mountains of NW NC. He said the same realtor will often re-sell the same home every few years for the same reason.
People buy a vacation home, visit a bunch for half a year, then don't visit much, then sell it because it's too expensive to own.
So at least someone makes a good living off of this foolishness!
My husband and his coworkers joke that the two rules for financial security are no divorces, and no vacation homes.
What about boats?
I am making my own kayak cover, but I drove 45 miles round trip to do a dry fit so that I can finish the project...
An easy way to remember this advice is "one house, one spouse".
Also, "if it flies, floats or fucks, rent it".
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Co-worker made some good returns on crypto a bought a cottage, and is now shocked by the costs of maintaining a second home. With raising energy costs his monthly heating bill during the winter months on his cottage are over $500. The fuel cost to drive there and back keep rising. He just got two property tax bills both due at the same time. On paper the raising values on both his properties show he is still ahead. However, his cash flow issues and expenses are starting to put a dampener on his joys of owning a cottage.
My brother-in-law just bought a primary home up in the mountains of NW NC. He said the same realtor will often re-sell the same home every few years for the same reason.
People buy a vacation home, visit a bunch for half a year, then don't visit much, then sell it because it's too expensive to own.
So at least someone makes a good living off of this foolishness!
My husband and his coworkers joke that the two rules for financial security are no divorces, and no vacation homes.
What about boats?
I am making my own kayak cover, but I drove 45 miles round trip to do a dry fit so that I can finish the project...
An easy way to remember this advice is "one house, one spouse".
Also, "if it flies, floats or fucks, rent it".
Are you supposed to rent the wife/husband or prostitutes? I guess there is a breakeven point were the first one is cheaper.
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Co-worker made some good returns on crypto a bought a cottage, and is now shocked by the costs of maintaining a second home. With raising energy costs his monthly heating bill during the winter months on his cottage are over $500. The fuel cost to drive there and back keep rising. He just got two property tax bills both due at the same time. On paper the raising values on both his properties show he is still ahead. However, his cash flow issues and expenses are starting to put a dampener on his joys of owning a cottage.
My brother-in-law just bought a primary home up in the mountains of NW NC. He said the same realtor will often re-sell the same home every few years for the same reason.
People buy a vacation home, visit a bunch for half a year, then don't visit much, then sell it because it's too expensive to own.
So at least someone makes a good living off of this foolishness!
My husband and his coworkers joke that the two rules for financial security are no divorces, and no vacation homes.
What about boats?
I am making my own kayak cover, but I drove 45 miles round trip to do a dry fit so that I can finish the project...
An easy way to remember this advice is "one house, one spouse".
Also, "if it flies, floats or fucks, rent it".
Are you supposed to rent the wife/husband or prostitutes? I guess there is a breakeven point were the first one is cheaper.
The context in which I heard this little gem of advice was in regard to expensive possessions like airplanes, boats and horses. I guess I should have mentioned that.
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Co-worker made some good returns on crypto a bought a cottage, and is now shocked by the costs of maintaining a second home. With raising energy costs his monthly heating bill during the winter months on his cottage are over $500. The fuel cost to drive there and back keep rising. He just got two property tax bills both due at the same time. On paper the raising values on both his properties show he is still ahead. However, his cash flow issues and expenses are starting to put a dampener on his joys of owning a cottage.
My brother-in-law just bought a primary home up in the mountains of NW NC. He said the same realtor will often re-sell the same home every few years for the same reason.
People buy a vacation home, visit a bunch for half a year, then don't visit much, then sell it because it's too expensive to own.
So at least someone makes a good living off of this foolishness!
My husband and his coworkers joke that the two rules for financial security are no divorces, and no vacation homes.
What about boats?
I am making my own kayak cover, but I drove 45 miles round trip to do a dry fit so that I can finish the project...
people are fucking their horses? I thought you were supposed to ride them
An easy way to remember this advice is "one house, one spouse".
Also, "if it flies, floats or fucks, rent it".
Are you supposed to rent the wife/husband or prostitutes? I guess there is a breakeven point were the first one is cheaper.
The context in which I heard this little gem of advice was in regard to expensive possessions like airplanes, boats and horses. I guess I should have mentioned that.
-
Co-worker made some good returns on crypto a bought a cottage, and is now shocked by the costs of maintaining a second home. With raising energy costs his monthly heating bill during the winter months on his cottage are over $500. The fuel cost to drive there and back keep rising. He just got two property tax bills both due at the same time. On paper the raising values on both his properties show he is still ahead. However, his cash flow issues and expenses are starting to put a dampener on his joys of owning a cottage.
My brother-in-law just bought a primary home up in the mountains of NW NC. He said the same realtor will often re-sell the same home every few years for the same reason.
People buy a vacation home, visit a bunch for half a year, then don't visit much, then sell it because it's too expensive to own.
So at least someone makes a good living off of this foolishness!
My husband and his coworkers joke that the two rules for financial security are no divorces, and no vacation homes.
What about boats?
I am making my own kayak cover, but I drove 45 miles round trip to do a dry fit so that I can finish the project...
An easy way to remember this advice is "one house, one spouse".
Also, "if it flies, floats or fucks, rent it".
Are you supposed to rent the wife/husband or prostitutes? I guess there is a breakeven point were the first one is cheaper.
The context in which I heard this little gem of advice was in regard to expensive possessions like airplanes, boats and horses. I guess I should have mentioned that.
That makes sense! I could not figure that out.
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Co-worker made some good returns on crypto a bought a cottage, and is now shocked by the costs of maintaining a second home. With raising energy costs his monthly heating bill during the winter months on his cottage are over $500. The fuel cost to drive there and back keep rising. He just got two property tax bills both due at the same time. On paper the raising values on both his properties show he is still ahead. However, his cash flow issues and expenses are starting to put a dampener on his joys of owning a cottage.
My brother-in-law just bought a primary home up in the mountains of NW NC. He said the same realtor will often re-sell the same home every few years for the same reason.
People buy a vacation home, visit a bunch for half a year, then don't visit much, then sell it because it's too expensive to own.
So at least someone makes a good living off of this foolishness!
My husband and his coworkers joke that the two rules for financial security are no divorces, and no vacation homes.
What about boats?
I am making my own kayak cover, but I drove 45 miles round trip to do a dry fit so that I can finish the project...
An easy way to remember this advice is "one house, one spouse".
Also, "if it flies, floats or fucks, rent it".
Are you supposed to rent the wife/husband or prostitutes? I guess there is a breakeven point were the first one is cheaper.
The context in which I heard this little gem of advice was in regard to expensive possessions like airplanes, boats and horses. I guess I should have mentioned that.
That makes sense! I could not figure that out.
I always thought it was a dig at marriage.
I'm all about the marriage advantages, to reverse a quote from The Talking Heads, "this IS my beautiful wife, this IS my beautiful house"
Some people are not marriage fans and some math supports them.
YMMV.
http://thatsfunnyshit.blogspot.com/2011/07/purchasing-or-leasing-which-is-better.html
Purchasing or Leasing - which is better?
Many people ask their accountant which is cheaper - purchasing or leasing?
We'd like to help you decide by illustrating two charming stories of foolish men and cunning women.
Purchasing
The maths on the Paul McCartney - Heather Mills divorce is as follows:
After 5 years of marriage, he paid her $49 million.
Assuming he had sex with her every night during their 5 year relationship, it ended up with him purchasing her @ $26,849 per time.
Leasing
On the other hand, New York Governor Eliot Spitzer's favourite hooker, Kristen charged $4,000 per night.
So, had Paul McCartney "employed" Kristen for 5 years @ $4,000 per night, he would have paid only $7.3 million in total for sex every night .
This represents a $41.7 million savings. What a shrewd cocksman Eliot is, compared to the ageing Beatle.
...it then goes on.....
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Co-worker made some good returns on crypto a bought a cottage, and is now shocked by the costs of maintaining a second home. With raising energy costs his monthly heating bill during the winter months on his cottage are over $500. The fuel cost to drive there and back keep rising. He just got two property tax bills both due at the same time. On paper the raising values on both his properties show he is still ahead. However, his cash flow issues and expenses are starting to put a dampener on his joys of owning a cottage.
My brother-in-law just bought a primary home up in the mountains of NW NC. He said the same realtor will often re-sell the same home every few years for the same reason.
People buy a vacation home, visit a bunch for half a year, then don't visit much, then sell it because it's too expensive to own.
So at least someone makes a good living off of this foolishness!
My husband and his coworkers joke that the two rules for financial security are no divorces, and no vacation homes.
What about boats?
I am making my own kayak cover, but I drove 45 miles round trip to do a dry fit so that I can finish the project...
An easy way to remember this advice is "one house, one spouse".
Also, "if it flies, floats or fucks, rent it".
Are you supposed to rent the wife/husband or prostitutes? I guess there is a breakeven point were the first one is cheaper.
The context in which I heard this little gem of advice was in regard to expensive possessions like airplanes, boats and horses. I guess I should have mentioned that.
You have carnal relations with horses???
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Co-worker made some good returns on crypto a bought a cottage, and is now shocked by the costs of maintaining a second home. With raising energy costs his monthly heating bill during the winter months on his cottage are over $500. The fuel cost to drive there and back keep rising. He just got two property tax bills both due at the same time. On paper the raising values on both his properties show he is still ahead. However, his cash flow issues and expenses are starting to put a dampener on his joys of owning a cottage.
My brother-in-law just bought a primary home up in the mountains of NW NC. He said the same realtor will often re-sell the same home every few years for the same reason.
People buy a vacation home, visit a bunch for half a year, then don't visit much, then sell it because it's too expensive to own.
So at least someone makes a good living off of this foolishness!
My husband and his coworkers joke that the two rules for financial security are no divorces, and no vacation homes.
What about boats?
I am making my own kayak cover, but I drove 45 miles round trip to do a dry fit so that I can finish the project...
An easy way to remember this advice is "one house, one spouse".
Also, "if it flies, floats or fucks, rent it".
Are you supposed to rent the wife/husband or prostitutes? I guess there is a breakeven point were the first one is cheaper.
A friend of ours has built a successful business with a dozen franchises throughout the SE, and he's recently gone through a divorce. I've wondered if he'd benefit from some pay-for-play, but he's also Catholic.
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A friend of ours has built a successful business with a dozen franchises throughout the SE, and he's recently gone through a divorce. I've wondered if he'd benefit from some pay-for-play, but he's also Catholic.
In which case he's finished for life in the nooky department. No remarriage after divorce, no extramarital shenanigans.
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A friend of ours has built a successful business with a dozen franchises throughout the SE, and he's recently gone through a divorce. I've wondered if he'd benefit from some pay-for-play, but he's also Catholic.
In which case he's finished for life in the nooky department. No remarriage after divorce, no extramarital shenanigans.
They really need to bring back indulgences.
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A friend of ours has built a successful business with a dozen franchises throughout the SE, and he's recently gone through a divorce. I've wondered if he'd benefit from some pay-for-play, but he's also Catholic.
In which case he's finished for life in the nooky department. No remarriage after divorce, no extramarital shenanigans.
I mean, not exactly? Pope Francis opened the door for more grace towards the divorced in 2016....
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/08/473484539/on-divorce-contraception-pope-calls-for-more-grace-less-dogma
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A friend of ours has built a successful business with a dozen franchises throughout the SE, and he's recently gone through a divorce. I've wondered if he'd benefit from some pay-for-play, but he's also Catholic.
In which case he's finished for life in the nooky department. No remarriage after divorce, no extramarital shenanigans.
I mean, not exactly? Pope Francis opened the door for more grace towards the divorced in 2016....
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/08/473484539/on-divorce-contraception-pope-calls-for-more-grace-less-dogma
But according to my *very* trad Cath SIL and family...(pssst! he's not the *real* pope).
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A friend of ours has built a successful business with a dozen franchises throughout the SE, and he's recently gone through a divorce. I've wondered if he'd benefit from some pay-for-play, but he's also Catholic.
In which case he's finished for life in the nooky department. No remarriage after divorce, no extramarital shenanigans.
I mean, not exactly? Pope Francis opened the door for more grace towards the divorced in 2016....
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/08/473484539/on-divorce-contraception-pope-calls-for-more-grace-less-dogma
But according to my *very* trad Cath SIL and family...(pssst! he's not the *real* pope).
I have been waiting to hear that, but so far, liberals just completely twist everything he says, I could not possibly understand...
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A friend of ours has built a successful business with a dozen franchises throughout the SE, and he's recently gone through a divorce. I've wondered if he'd benefit from some pay-for-play, but he's also Catholic.
In which case he's finished for life in the nooky department. No remarriage after divorce, no extramarital shenanigans.
I mean, not exactly? Pope Francis opened the door for more grace towards the divorced in 2016....
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/08/473484539/on-divorce-contraception-pope-calls-for-more-grace-less-dogma
But according to my *very* trad Cath SIL and family...(pssst! he's not the *real* pope).
Oh really? Which one is it then? The Russian one who said that Putin is doing a holy war?
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A friend of ours has built a successful business with a dozen franchises throughout the SE, and he's recently gone through a divorce. I've wondered if he'd benefit from some pay-for-play, but he's also Catholic.
In which case he's finished for life in the nooky department. No remarriage after divorce, no extramarital shenanigans.
I think--given the choice between sex and catholicism--my friend will choose the former.
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A friend of ours has built a successful business with a dozen franchises throughout the SE, and he's recently gone through a divorce. I've wondered if he'd benefit from some pay-for-play, but he's also Catholic.
In which case he's finished for life in the nooky department. No remarriage after divorce, no extramarital shenanigans.
I think--given the choice between sex and catholicism--my friend will choose the former.
Yea, I know a lot of ex catholics who have found a place in a local protestant church *and* a life after divorce.
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A friend of ours has built a successful business with a dozen franchises throughout the SE, and he's recently gone through a divorce. I've wondered if he'd benefit from some pay-for-play, but he's also Catholic.
In which case he's finished for life in the nooky department. No remarriage after divorce, no extramarital shenanigans.
I think--given the choice between sex and catholicism--my friend will choose the former.
Yea, I know a lot of ex catholics who have found a place in a local protestant church *and* a life after divorce.
Many find the Anglican church very welcoming/comfortable. I knew an Anglican minister who had been a Catholic priest. Oops, he fell in love, changed churches but not careers and married his wife.
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A friend of ours has built a successful business with a dozen franchises throughout the SE, and he's recently gone through a divorce. I've wondered if he'd benefit from some pay-for-play, but he's also Catholic.
In which case he's finished for life in the nooky department. No remarriage after divorce, no extramarital shenanigans.
I mean, not exactly? Pope Francis opened the door for more grace towards the divorced in 2016....
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/08/473484539/on-divorce-contraception-pope-calls-for-more-grace-less-dogma
But according to my *very* trad Cath SIL and family...(pssst! he's not the *real* pope).
Oh really? Which one is it then? The Russian one who said that Putin is doing a holy war?
This was a couple years ago, when she was PO'd about her church shutting down during the first death wave of Covid, and how it was prejudicial against her religion. I pointed out it wasn't - other churches were shut down, as were theaters and restaurants. I also noted that the Pope had shut down Easter Sunday services, the highest of high holy days, so she should feel better about caring for others.
Her response was that he was a Communist, and not the "real Pope". I was so shocked I didn't even know where to go next, so I decided that not pursuing that train of thought was probably for the best if I wanted to preserve a relationship with the nieces and nephew.
Gah.
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I didn't even know where to go next, so I decided that not pursuing that train of thought was probably for the best if I wanted to preserve a relationship with the nieces and nephew.
Gah.
Having practiced this technique for the last 30+ years, I am currently hosting the eldest niece and nephew who are very stressed out about protecting their younger sister at least until she turns 16.
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I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.
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As an Atheist I find the importance placed on which flavor of the same stupidity you believe in (and mostly ignore anyway) quite confusing.
I am quite impressed with those "the whole church sings" groups. It's either a fabulous example of group pressure or an incredible demonstration that group think can even win over singing shyness. I am not sure which one or both.
disclaimer: This post is meant in a joking way.
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A friend of ours has built a successful business with a dozen franchises throughout the SE, and he's recently gone through a divorce. I've wondered if he'd benefit from some pay-for-play, but he's also Catholic.
In which case he's finished for life in the nooky department. No remarriage after divorce, no extramarital shenanigans.
I think--given the choice between sex and catholicism--my friend will choose the former.
Yea, I know a lot of ex catholics who have found a place in a local protestant church *and* a life after divorce.
Many find the Anglican church very welcoming/comfortable. I knew an Anglican minister who had been a Catholic priest. Oops, he fell in love, changed churches but not careers and married his wife.
I hear that my ex-husband and his new wife met at an Episcopalian/Anglican seminary. I hope, for her sake, that he's gotten his shit together (he's apparently followed the drug-addiction-to-religion pipeline).
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Not overheard, a conversation. (Bay Area)
Hey K, I’m buying a condo up by you because I decided I like it here (we currently both rent).
K: goes through a list of many restaurants in the area I need to try.
Me mentally thinking, how often do you people eat out and no wonder I’m going to retire earlier than you.
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Chatting with a coworker (and friend) and he mentioned they just got back from meeting with an insurance agent. Best I can tell, it was a full on whole life sales pitch. I gently recommended he do some research. I am very confident he is not one of the corner cases where a WL policy makes any sense at all.
I am pretty sure he was getting pressure from parents since the meeting was with “our guy” that his parents have used for years.
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Chatting with a coworker (and friend) and he mentioned they just got back from meeting with an insurance agent. Best I can tell, it was a full on whole life sales pitch. I gently recommended he do some research. I am very confident he is not one of the corner cases where a WL policy makes any sense at all.
I am pretty sure he was getting pressure from parents since the meeting was with “our guy” that his parents have used for years.
I work in an agency that regulates insurance companies and when they sell universal life and whole life they should be prosecuted. They're like snake oil pitch men.
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I watched someone lock in their losses today and completely exit the market because some strategist posted a blog article. We'd just talked about this. Granted, she's maybe a year away from retirement, so it's quite possible that her AA was not appropriate for her, but damn man.
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Chatting with a coworker (and friend) and he mentioned they just got back from meeting with an insurance agent. Best I can tell, it was a full on whole life sales pitch. I gently recommended he do some research. I am very confident he is not one of the corner cases where a WL policy makes any sense at all.
I am pretty sure he was getting pressure from parents since the meeting was with “our guy” that his parents have used for years.
I work in an agency that regulates insurance companies and when they sell universal life and whole life they should be prosecuted. They're like snake oil pitch men.
I can attest to one benefit of these god-forsaken policies. I was sold on one of these things in my early 20's by one of those scummy financial advisors that preys on junior military officers. Once I learned what was in it a year or so later, it gave me the motivation to actually study and learn personal finance. Enough so that I eventually got an MBA in Finance. It was indirectly one of the best mistakes I ever made.
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Chatting with a coworker (and friend) and he mentioned they just got back from meeting with an insurance agent. Best I can tell, it was a full on whole life sales pitch. I gently recommended he do some research. I am very confident he is not one of the corner cases where a WL policy makes any sense at all.
I am pretty sure he was getting pressure from parents since the meeting was with “our guy” that his parents have used for years.
I work in an agency that regulates insurance companies and when they sell universal life and whole life they should be prosecuted. They're like snake oil pitch men.
I can attest to one benefit of these god-forsaken policies. I was sold on one of these things in my early 20's by one of those scummy financial advisors that preys on junior military officers. Once I learned what was in it a year or so later, it gave me the motivation to actually study and learn personal finance. Enough so that I eventually got an MBA in Finance. It was indirectly one of the best mistakes I ever made.
USPA-IRA? Such a gem. However, similar to you, my experience with them (no insurance ever, just a super expensive mutual fund) caused me to become interested in investing and getting educated. The dollars that made into the market, after the big loads, into my IRA, are now sitting in VTSAX and they have had lots of children along the way as they moved from USPA-IRA to T.Rowe Price, to finally Vanguard.
It’s a little bit of an isolated account due to a Roth conversion when they came out and I was in grad school in a very low tax bracket. So I can sort of see what those early years have become.
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I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.
I find this extraordinary. So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?
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I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.
I find this extraordinary. So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?
No, married priests are allowed in the Eastern branches of the Catholic Church (e.g., Ukrainian, Byzantine, Melkite), in the Anglican Use Ordinariate, and under some circumstances in the Roman rite. A married clergyman of another denomination who converts to Roman Catholicism and discerns a vocation to the Catholic priesthood can be ordained in the RC church after his conversion (and further study) without giving up his wife and family.
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I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.
I find this extraordinary. So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?
I think a married priest who converts to Catholicism can stay married. At least that was what I was told by a friend who planned to after marriage become an priest in another church and the convert to become a Catholic priest. I even googled it, and it seems to be a thing:
https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/whats-the-deal-about-legally-married-priests-1079
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I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.
I find this extraordinary. So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?
I think a married priest who converts to Catholicism can stay married. At least that was what I was told by a friend who planned to after marriage become an priest in another church and the convert to become a Catholic priest. I even googled it, and it seems to be a thing:
https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/whats-the-deal-about-legally-married-priests-1079
I've seen the opposite: Catholic priest who fell in love, left the Catholic Church and joined the Anglican Church, married his love, and became an Anglican minister. I know because I was a member of his Anglican Church.
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I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.
I find this extraordinary. So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?
I think a married priest who converts to Catholicism can stay married. At least that was what I was told by a friend who planned to after marriage become an priest in another church and the convert to become a Catholic priest. I even googled it, and it seems to be a thing:
https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/whats-the-deal-about-legally-married-priests-1079
Thank you for this. My husband and I are Catholic and his parents are very devout Catholics. Neither of us had any idea that this was possible or knew about the Pastoral Provision. We both thought that the minister would have to become a deacon, following the same process as a lay member of the church. You learn something new every day!
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I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.
I find this extraordinary. So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?
Given the catholic church history, might be best thing for the kids to stay far far away from that criminal enterprise.
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I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.
I find this extraordinary. So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?
I think a married priest who converts to Catholicism can stay married. At least that was what I was told by a friend who planned to after marriage become an priest in another church and the convert to become a Catholic priest. I even googled it, and it seems to be a thing:
https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/whats-the-deal-about-legally-married-priests-1079
I bet the same offer is not extended to women/would be nuns….
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I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.
I find this extraordinary. So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?
I think a married priest who converts to Catholicism can stay married. At least that was what I was told by a friend who planned to after marriage become an priest in another church and the convert to become a Catholic priest. I even googled it, and it seems to be a thing:
https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/whats-the-deal-about-legally-married-priests-1079
I bet the same offer is not extended to women/would be nuns….
A woman who converts to Catholicism can become a nun or religious sister. If you mean she can't do that and keep living the usual family life, you're right. A nun, by definition, belongs to an order and lives in community with her sisters, and that's fundamentally incompatible with a family-based household. For a married woman to join a religious order, her husband would have to agree to them ceasing to live as husband and wife, and if she has children they would have to be independent.
There are existing communities and associations of lay Catholics that include married couples. I don't know enough canon law to know whether it is possible to create a religious order for married couples, in which both spouses made vows.
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I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.
I find this extraordinary. So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?
I think a married priest who converts to Catholicism can stay married. At least that was what I was told by a friend who planned to after marriage become an priest in another church and the convert to become a Catholic priest. I even googled it, and it seems to be a thing:
https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/whats-the-deal-about-legally-married-priests-1079
I bet the same offer is not extended to women/would be nuns….
A woman who converts to Catholicism can become a nun or religious sister. If you mean she can't do that and keep living the usual family life, you're right. A nun, by definition, belongs to an order and lives in community with her sisters, and that's fundamentally incompatible with a family-based household. For a married woman to join a religious order, her husband would have to agree to them ceasing to live as husband and wife, and if she has children they would have to be independent.
There are existing communities and associations of lay Catholics that include married couples. I don't know enough canon law to know whether it is possible to create a religious order for married couples, in which both spouses made vows.
Her husband would have to agree to them ceasing to live as husband and wife? Are you saying this is not something she can decide for herself?
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I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.
I find this extraordinary. So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?
I think a married priest who converts to Catholicism can stay married. At least that was what I was told by a friend who planned to after marriage become an priest in another church and the convert to become a Catholic priest. I even googled it, and it seems to be a thing:
https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/whats-the-deal-about-legally-married-priests-1079
I bet the same offer is not extended to women/would be nuns….
A woman who converts to Catholicism can become a nun or religious sister. If you mean she can't do that and keep living the usual family life, you're right. A nun, by definition, belongs to an order and lives in community with her sisters, and that's fundamentally incompatible with a family-based household. For a married woman to join a religious order, her husband would have to agree to them ceasing to live as husband and wife, and if she has children they would have to be independent.
There are existing communities and associations of lay Catholics that include married couples. I don't know enough canon law to know whether it is possible to create a religious order for married couples, in which both spouses made vows.
Her husband would have to agree to them ceasing to live as husband and wife? Are you saying this is not something she can decide for herself?
Last I checked the Catholic Church didn't allow for divorce, only annulment which would then make any children they had retroactive bastards (in the historical meaning of the word, not the colloquial).
You gotta remember - in the view of the Catholic Church, women are property of their fathers or husbands, and widows are either women of low repute (if they associate with unrelated men) or second class citizens. Nuns are property of the Church. So in the case of a wife becoming a nun, since divorce isn't possible of course the husband has to agree - she's his property, and he has to agree to give ownership of her to the Church.
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I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.
I find this extraordinary. So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?
I think a married priest who converts to Catholicism can stay married. At least that was what I was told by a friend who planned to after marriage become an priest in another church and the convert to become a Catholic priest. I even googled it, and it seems to be a thing:
https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/whats-the-deal-about-legally-married-priests-1079
I bet the same offer is not extended to women/would be nuns….
A woman who converts to Catholicism can become a nun or religious sister. If you mean she can't do that and keep living the usual family life, you're right. A nun, by definition, belongs to an order and lives in community with her sisters, and that's fundamentally incompatible with a family-based household. For a married woman to join a religious order, her husband would have to agree to them ceasing to live as husband and wife, and if she has children they would have to be independent.
There are existing communities and associations of lay Catholics that include married couples. I don't know enough canon law to know whether it is possible to create a religious order for married couples, in which both spouses made vows.
Her husband would have to agree to them ceasing to live as husband and wife? Are you saying this is not something she can decide for herself?
Last I checked the Catholic Church didn't allow for divorce, only annulment which would then make any children they had retroactive bastards (in the historical meaning of the word, not the colloquial).
You gotta remember - in the view of the Catholic Church, women are property of their fathers or husbands, and widows are either women of low repute (if they associate with unrelated men) or second class citizens. Nuns are property of the Church. So in the case of a wife becoming a nun, since divorce isn't possible of course the husband has to agree - she's his property, and he has to agree to give ownership of her to the Church.
Hmm, so a woman turning to the church and wanting to become a nun would not be able to do so, until they had checked with her husband? Who she’s not going to divorce anyway, since that’s not possible. What if he doesn’t take their calls, or has skipped town or something?
Although as a lapsed Lutheran I’m pretty unlikely to be joining a convent anytime soon, this is fascinating to me since I’m married to someone who is technically Catholic. But I guess our kids are bastards in the eyes of the Catholic Church anyway, since we only married in city hall and not in a church of any kind. But they are Christened the Lutheran way, is that any help at all? Or is all that Ecumenism just empty words?
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I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.
I find this extraordinary. So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?
I think a married priest who converts to Catholicism can stay married. At least that was what I was told by a friend who planned to after marriage become an priest in another church and the convert to become a Catholic priest. I even googled it, and it seems to be a thing:
https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/whats-the-deal-about-legally-married-priests-1079
I bet the same offer is not extended to women/would be nuns….
A woman who converts to Catholicism can become a nun or religious sister. If you mean she can't do that and keep living the usual family life, you're right. A nun, by definition, belongs to an order and lives in community with her sisters, and that's fundamentally incompatible with a family-based household. For a married woman to join a religious order, her husband would have to agree to them ceasing to live as husband and wife, and if she has children they would have to be independent.
There are existing communities and associations of lay Catholics that include married couples. I don't know enough canon law to know whether it is possible to create a religious order for married couples, in which both spouses made vows.
Her husband would have to agree to them ceasing to live as husband and wife? Are you saying this is not something she can decide for herself?
Last I checked the Catholic Church didn't allow for divorce, only annulment which would then make any children they had retroactive bastards (in the historical meaning of the word, not the colloquial).
You gotta remember - in the view of the Catholic Church, women are property of their fathers or husbands, and widows are either women of low repute (if they associate with unrelated men) or second class citizens. Nuns are property of the Church. So in the case of a wife becoming a nun, since divorce isn't possible of course the husband has to agree - she's his property, and he has to agree to give ownership of her to the Church.
Hmm, so a woman turning to the church and wanting to become a nun would not be able to do so, until they had checked with her husband? Who she’s not going to divorce anyway, since that’s not possible. What if he doesn’t take their calls, or has skipped town or something?
Although as a lapsed Lutheran I’m pretty unlikely to be joining a convent anytime soon, this is fascinating to me since I’m married to someone who is technically Catholic. But I guess our kids are bastards in the eyes of the Catholic Church anyway, since we only married in city hall and not in a church of any kind. But they are Christened the Lutheran way, is that any help at all? Or is all that Ecumenism just empty words?
Technically, only a Catholic marriage is a "real" marriage, a sacrament. It can only end with dead. That's how UK prime minister Boris Johnson managed to marry his third wife in a Catholic church - the first two marriages didn't count. By that logic you must be unmarried too, so I would think nothing would stop you becoming Christ's bride as long as you can leave the kids with their dad.
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Her husband would have to agree to them ceasing to live as husband and wife? Are you saying this is not something she can decide for herself?
Sorry, I think the scope of what I was talking about was unclear. A husband can't stop his wife from leaving him, and getting a civil divorce, if that's what you're asking. But the civil divorce doesn't dissolve a marriage in the eyes of the church, so the spouses still have canonical obligations to each other. If the wife wants to become a nun, her husband has to release her from those obligations before an order will let her undertake the new obligations of religious life.
This has nothing to do with the preposterous claim that women are property of men. It's exactly the same for a married man who wants to become a monk/friar. His wife would have to release him from his obligations to her before an order would accept him as a candidate.
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Well, found the Catholic :)
I don't feel like getting into a religious debate today, so I'm going to keep this short. The Catholic Church, which has existed for 2000-odd years, is therefore operating with rules, procedures, traditions, and "that's just the way its done" that span 2000-odd years. Many of those have a basis in theology - either from the beginning or created as justification or enforcement. For much of those 2000-odd years, yes, women were essentially property. Sometimes literally and legally property. So, when considering anything about how the Church operates, the historical context should be kept in mind, including when appropriate the historical role and rights of women. Because often, you can trace back any particular thing to an actual historical event, decision, cultural trend, etc if you feel like doing the research.
This concept applies more broadly of course, because that's human nature. But it's more interesting to look at it in context of something like the Catholic Church, both because it's 2000 years of history and because of the sheer scope of influence the Church has had on history and the lives of ordinary people.
Also, I'm slightly evil and I find it funny when people freak out when you point this stuff out.
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Well, found the Catholic :)
I don't feel like getting into a religious debate today, so I'm going to keep this short. The Catholic Church, which has existed for 2000-odd years, is therefore operating with rules, procedures, traditions, and "that's just the way its done" that span 2000-odd years. Many of those have a basis in theology - either from the beginning or created as justification or enforcement. For much of those 2000-odd years, yes, women were essentially property. Sometimes literally and legally property. So, when considering anything about how the Church operates, the historical context should be kept in mind, including when appropriate the historical role and rights of women. Because often, you can trace back any particular thing to an actual historical event, decision, cultural trend, etc if you feel like doing the research.
This concept applies more broadly of course, because that's human nature. But it's more interesting to look at it in context of something like the Catholic Church, both because it's 2000 years of history and because of the sheer scope of influence the Church has had on history and the lives of ordinary people.
Also, I'm slightly evil and I find it funny when people freak out when you point this stuff out.
It needs pointing out. Historical roots also need pointing out. Tradition is dead people peer pressure/bulllying.
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Well, found the Catholic :)
I don't feel like getting into a religious debate today, so I'm going to keep this short. The Catholic Church, which has existed for 2000-odd years, is therefore operating with rules, procedures, traditions, and "that's just the way its done" that span 2000-odd years. Many of those have a basis in theology - either from the beginning or created as justification or enforcement. For much of those 2000-odd years, yes, women were essentially property. Sometimes literally and legally property. So, when considering anything about how the Church operates, the historical context should be kept in mind, including when appropriate the historical role and rights of women. Because often, you can trace back any particular thing to an actual historical event, decision, cultural trend, etc if you feel like doing the research.
This concept applies more broadly of course, because that's human nature. But it's more interesting to look at it in context of something like the Catholic Church, both because it's 2000 years of history and because of the sheer scope of influence the Church has had on history and the lives of ordinary people.
Also, I'm slightly evil and I find it funny when people freak out when you point this stuff out.
It needs pointing out. Historical roots also need pointing out. Tradition is dead people peer pressure/bulllying.
And since it's a religion, you get a bunch people who have a fit of the vapors when you point it out. Which is fun. Did I say I'm slightly evil? Because I am.
More seriously, I have deep issues with the Catholic Church as an institution. Individuals will vary of course, you get good and bad people. But the institution I can not respect due to its actions, lack of actions, and apparent lack of willingness to address the very real damage and harm that has been done. I find the continued instance of priestly celibacy to be criminal given the widespread and repeated instances of child predation that has happened and that I'm sure is ongoing. Especially since that rule wasn't put in place until around 1000 or 1100 CE (I forget exactly, google it), and there's arguments made that the rule was only put in place for reasons of political power and wealth.
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Well, found the Catholic :)
I don't feel like getting into a religious debate today, so I'm going to keep this short. The Catholic Church, which has existed for 2000-odd years, is therefore operating with rules, procedures, traditions, and "that's just the way its done" that span 2000-odd years. Many of those have a basis in theology - either from the beginning or created as justification or enforcement. For much of those 2000-odd years, yes, women were essentially property. Sometimes literally and legally property. So, when considering anything about how the Church operates, the historical context should be kept in mind, including when appropriate the historical role and rights of women. Because often, you can trace back any particular thing to an actual historical event, decision, cultural trend, etc if you feel like doing the research.
This concept applies more broadly of course, because that's human nature. But it's more interesting to look at it in context of something like the Catholic Church, both because it's 2000 years of history and because of the sheer scope of influence the Church has had on history and the lives of ordinary people.
Also, I'm slightly evil and I find it funny when people freak out when you point this stuff out.
It needs pointing out. Historical roots also need pointing out. Tradition is dead people peer pressure/bulllying.
And since it's a religion, you get a bunch people who have a fit of the vapors when you point it out. Which is fun. Did I say I'm slightly evil? Because I am.
More seriously, I have deep issues with the Catholic Church as an institution. Individuals will vary of course, you get good and bad people. But the institution I can not respect due to its actions, lack of actions, and apparent lack of willingness to address the very real damage and harm that has been done. I find the continued instance of priestly celibacy to be criminal given the widespread and repeated instances of child predation that has happened and that I'm sure is ongoing. Especially since that rule wasn't put in place until around 1000 or 1100 CE (I forget exactly, google it), and there's arguments made that the rule was only put in place for reasons of political power and wealth.
And this is why, although I was raised Catholic, and went to Catholic schools, I only enter a church for weddings and funerals. At those weddings and funerals I don’t take communion. Why because cannon law says I should because I don’t consider myself to be Catholic.
I too have major issues with the Catholic Church because it is a cultural institution created in a different time who has not evolved enough. It’s not that I have no faith in god, it’s that I have no faith in man not to manipulate god.
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Last I checked the Catholic Church didn't allow for divorce, only annulment which would then make any children they had retroactive bastards (in the historical meaning of the word, not the colloquial).
You gotta remember - in the view of the Catholic Church, women are property of their fathers or husbands, and widows are either women of low repute (if they associate with unrelated men) or second class citizens. Nuns are property of the Church. So in the case of a wife becoming a nun, since divorce isn't possible of course the husband has to agree - she's his property, and he has to agree to give ownership of her to the Church.
Hmm, so a woman turning to the church and wanting to become a nun would not be able to do so, until they had checked with her husband? Who she’s not going to divorce anyway, since that’s not possible. What if he doesn’t take their calls, or has skipped town or something?
Although as a lapsed Lutheran I’m pretty unlikely to be joining a convent anytime soon, this is fascinating to me since I’m married to someone who is technically Catholic. But I guess our kids are bastards in the eyes of the Catholic Church anyway, since we only married in city hall and not in a church of any kind. But they are Christened the Lutheran way, is that any help at all? Or is all that Ecumenism just empty words?
One of the many mysteries of our current society is that the catholic church is allowed to exist. Of all the brainwashing, abusive, sexist organizations out there, this one is allowed to dribble their hateful speech and actions without remorse or recourse. And of course without paying taxes...it is just baffling to me.
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Last I checked the Catholic Church didn't allow for divorce, only annulment which would then make any children they had retroactive bastards (in the historical meaning of the word, not the colloquial).
You gotta remember - in the view of the Catholic Church, women are property of their fathers or husbands, and widows are either women of low repute (if they associate with unrelated men) or second class citizens. Nuns are property of the Church. So in the case of a wife becoming a nun, since divorce isn't possible of course the husband has to agree - she's his property, and he has to agree to give ownership of her to the Church.
Hmm, so a woman turning to the church and wanting to become a nun would not be able to do so, until they had checked with her husband? Who she’s not going to divorce anyway, since that’s not possible. What if he doesn’t take their calls, or has skipped town or something?
Although as a lapsed Lutheran I’m pretty unlikely to be joining a convent anytime soon, this is fascinating to me since I’m married to someone who is technically Catholic. But I guess our kids are bastards in the eyes of the Catholic Church anyway, since we only married in city hall and not in a church of any kind. But they are Christened the Lutheran way, is that any help at all? Or is all that Ecumenism just empty words?
One of the many mysteries of our current society is that the catholic church is allowed to exist. Of all the brainwashing, abusive, sexist organizations out there, this one is allowed to dribble their hateful speech and actions without remorse or recourse. And of course without paying taxes...it is just baffling to me.
I mean there's nothing more hateful than saying love your neighbor, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, take care of the sick, etc.
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Last I checked the Catholic Church didn't allow for divorce, only annulment which would then make any children they had retroactive bastards (in the historical meaning of the word, not the colloquial).
You gotta remember - in the view of the Catholic Church, women are property of their fathers or husbands, and widows are either women of low repute (if they associate with unrelated men) or second class citizens. Nuns are property of the Church. So in the case of a wife becoming a nun, since divorce isn't possible of course the husband has to agree - she's his property, and he has to agree to give ownership of her to the Church.
Hmm, so a woman turning to the church and wanting to become a nun would not be able to do so, until they had checked with her husband? Who she’s not going to divorce anyway, since that’s not possible. What if he doesn’t take their calls, or has skipped town or something?
Although as a lapsed Lutheran I’m pretty unlikely to be joining a convent anytime soon, this is fascinating to me since I’m married to someone who is technically Catholic. But I guess our kids are bastards in the eyes of the Catholic Church anyway, since we only married in city hall and not in a church of any kind. But they are Christened the Lutheran way, is that any help at all? Or is all that Ecumenism just empty words?
One of the many mysteries of our current society is that the catholic church is allowed to exist. Of all the brainwashing, abusive, sexist organizations out there, this one is allowed to dribble their hateful speech and actions without remorse or recourse. And of course without paying taxes...it is just baffling to me.
I mean there's nothing more hateful than saying love your neighbor, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, take care of the sick, etc.
...while actually taking the action of abusing the children (and covering it up) and oppressing the women.
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Last I checked the Catholic Church didn't allow for divorce, only annulment which would then make any children they had retroactive bastards (in the historical meaning of the word, not the colloquial).
You gotta remember - in the view of the Catholic Church, women are property of their fathers or husbands, and widows are either women of low repute (if they associate with unrelated men) or second class citizens. Nuns are property of the Church. So in the case of a wife becoming a nun, since divorce isn't possible of course the husband has to agree - she's his property, and he has to agree to give ownership of her to the Church.
Hmm, so a woman turning to the church and wanting to become a nun would not be able to do so, until they had checked with her husband? Who she’s not going to divorce anyway, since that’s not possible. What if he doesn’t take their calls, or has skipped town or something?
Although as a lapsed Lutheran I’m pretty unlikely to be joining a convent anytime soon, this is fascinating to me since I’m married to someone who is technically Catholic. But I guess our kids are bastards in the eyes of the Catholic Church anyway, since we only married in city hall and not in a church of any kind. But they are Christened the Lutheran way, is that any help at all? Or is all that Ecumenism just empty words?
One of the many mysteries of our current society is that the catholic church is allowed to exist. Of all the brainwashing, abusive, sexist organizations out there, this one is allowed to dribble their hateful speech and actions without remorse or recourse. And of course without paying taxes...it is just baffling to me.
I mean there's nothing more hateful than saying love your neighbor, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, take care of the sick, etc.
...while actually taking the action of abusing the children (and covering it up) and oppressing the women.
Totally agree. Words matter not at all, it’s the actions that show true colours.
The Catholic Church, in my opinion, is a criminal organization that should be drummed out of existence.
I can’t believe anyone supports it, financially or morally. It appalls me.
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I mean, I would argue that the evangelical protestant church is equally terrible.
Back to the topic at hand. I have a coworker moving overseas. We had a long discussion about whether it was cost effective to ship his (Ikea-equivalent) furniture (spoiler alert: hell no, but he was convinced that he should do it because, gasp, of the expense of a furnished apartment!)
People overvalue their stuff so much. It baffles me. I tried to get him to see that the cost of shipping exceeded the value of his stuff, but he was fixated in the idea that his bed frame was 'worth' what he paid for it. No ya dingus, it's worth 25% at MOST.
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People overvalue their stuff so much. It baffles me. I tried to get him to see that the cost of shipping exceeded the value of his stuff, but he was fixated in the idea that his bed frame was 'worth' what he paid for it. No ya dingus, it's worth 25% at MOST.
When my brother was moving a few years ago (using ABF), he calculated that the moving truck cost about $4 per cubic foot. So, when deciding what to take, he looked at each item and thought "would it cost me more to replace this than the space it would take on the truck?"
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People overvalue their stuff so much. It baffles me. I tried to get him to see that the cost of shipping exceeded the value of his stuff, but he was fixated in the idea that his bed frame was 'worth' what he paid for it. No ya dingus, it's worth 25% at MOST.
When my brother was moving a few years ago (using ABF), he calculated that the moving truck cost about $4 per cubic foot. So, when deciding what to take, he looked at each item and thought "would it cost me more to replace this than the space it would take on the truck?"
I have moved a lot and when I pack I look at items and ask myself. Do I want to pay for moving this?
Most of the furnitures without sentimental value are not worth to pay to move. It has resulted in that during 15 years the amount of stuff has basically been the same. Sofas have been one of the items I have sold most of the times. The bed has been one of the things that I have brought with me bit I would never ship it. I have had some Ikea bookcases that I have sold and ordered a new one at the new place.
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I guess I tend to not look at the resale value of something (which I would agree is probably around a quarter of what I paid), but the replacement value - what would it cost me to replace it, which would be substantially higher than 25%.
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I guess I tend to not look at the resale value of something (which I would agree is probably around a quarter of what I paid), but the replacement value - what would it cost me to replace it, which would be substantially higher than 25%.
Yes, I think that's the right way of thinking about it. The resale value of furniture may be pretty low, but that's not the point. The point is you need new furniture in your new space, that suits your needs and that would take time to find. You need to calculate that all in. If you have a simple Ikea Expedit cupboard, there's probably no point in taking it with you, from a financial point of view. You know that wherever you live, if you walk into any thrift shop you can always find another one for maybe €10. But other items of furniture may be difficult to find. I have a set of handmade chairs that I inherited. My (store-bought) table is exactly the right size and height for those chairs. The table has a re-sale value of about €0 since heavy oak tables are out of fashion now. Even though the table is very heavy and a pain to move, I would still take it with me because finding a replacement would be so difficult. I'd probably have to spend months visiting thrift shops over and over again until I found a table that's exactly this size, this height and sort-of matching to the chairs. And all that time I'd be without a table in my new house so that would be extremely inconvenient.
And I also always try to keep appliances like a washing machine or a stove, because I know mine are good quality and well maintained. Buying those used is very much hit or miss and it's not easy to test those before buying them. When you're finally done moving, you want a working washing machine and stove to wash your dirty clothes and cook some food, you don't want to immediately have to go and find a trustworthy repairman in your new area.
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I have a similar problem. I attach almost no feelings whatsoever to 'things' and can throw away almost anything without thought (to my DW's eternal irritation).
When it came time to move, it was always a small tug of war over a variety of things we never use.
"I haven't looked at this portable Shiatsu massager in 14 months, can we get rid of it?" That sort of stuff.
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I am the worst about this stuff. Bought a telescope from a family member, was moving it from one house to another and cursing myself for how little we've used it.
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I guess I tend to not look at the resale value of something (which I would agree is probably around a quarter of what I paid), but the replacement value - what would it cost me to replace it, which would be substantially higher than 25%.
Ah yes, this is why it's such a coup to buy used items - someone else pays the considerable depreciation on household items.
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I am the worst about this stuff. Bought a telescope from a family member, was moving it from one house to another and cursing myself for how little we've used it.
If it's quality equipment, telescopes (like most things recently) are in short supply. Look at Cloudy Night, they have a large classified section for selling used stuff. If you don't have the boxes, specify local pickup.
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Coworker told me today he doesn’t cook. Well he will use the microwave.
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Was catching up with a coworker today, and a guy in his old group just bought a camper two days ago. That’s bad enough for his current financial situation as I understand it (just from general knowledge of his grade and family situation), but naturally it seems the 1/2 ton truck might now need to be upgraded to a 3/4 ton truck. Ugh, I just hope he is taking full advantage of our 401k match and the wonderfully low cost options we have. Please, just as a minimum, be putting in 6% to get a 10% match. Please.
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Coworker told me today he doesn’t cook. Well he will use the microwave.
Ah, that reminds me of a former coworker who once told me that in several years living (alone) in his apartment, he had never once used the dishwasher. He either ate take-out, or microwaved stuff and only ever used paper plates and paper napkins. He didn't even have regular plates. I don't remember if he had silverware or also only used disposable ones.
And no, he wasn't fresh out of college or anything. He was like 45 at the time.
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Coworker told me today he doesn’t cook. Well he will use the microwave.
Ah, that reminds me of a former coworker who once told me that in several years living (alone) in his apartment, he had never once used the dishwasher. He either ate take-out, or microwaved stuff and only ever used paper plates and paper napkins. He didn't even have regular plates. I don't remember if he had silverware or also only used disposable ones.
And no, he wasn't fresh out of college or anything. He was like 45 at the time.
We have been here for four years and never used the dishwasher. But it isn't for the same reasons: we just don't own enough dishes to fill it, so we end up doing dishes by hand. If we don't do it at the end of one meal, we usually need to do it to make the next meal. There are a few combos that let us get in extra meals, like DH likes to use a specific Tupperware for his salad or if one meal uses the sauce pan and frying pan and the next meal is baked in the oven and one of the meals uses bowls while the other uses plates...
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Coworker told me today he doesn’t cook. Well he will use the microwave.
Ah, that reminds me of a former coworker who once told me that in several years living (alone) in his apartment, he had never once used the dishwasher. He either ate take-out, or microwaved stuff and only ever used paper plates and paper napkins. He didn't even have regular plates. I don't remember if he had silverware or also only used disposable ones.
And no, he wasn't fresh out of college or anything. He was like 45 at the time.
We have been here for four years and never used the dishwasher. But it isn't for the same reasons: we just don't own enough dishes to fill it, so we end up doing dishes by hand. If we don't do it at the end of one meal, we usually need to do it to make the next meal. There are a few combos that let us get in extra meals, like DH likes to use a specific Tupperware for his salad or if one meal uses the sauce pan and frying pan and the next meal is baked in the oven and one of the meals uses bowls while the other uses plates...
Depending on your washing technique, this may be wasteful. Modern dishwashers are pretty darn efficient as I understand it.
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Coworker told me today he doesn’t cook. Well he will use the microwave.
Ah, that reminds me of a former coworker who once told me that in several years living (alone) in his apartment, he had never once used the dishwasher. He either ate take-out, or microwaved stuff and only ever used paper plates and paper napkins. He didn't even have regular plates. I don't remember if he had silverware or also only used disposable ones.
And no, he wasn't fresh out of college or anything. He was like 45 at the time.
We have been here for four years and never used the dishwasher. But it isn't for the same reasons: we just don't own enough dishes to fill it, so we end up doing dishes by hand. If we don't do it at the end of one meal, we usually need to do it to make the next meal. There are a few combos that let us get in extra meals, like DH likes to use a specific Tupperware for his salad or if one meal uses the sauce pan and frying pan and the next meal is baked in the oven and one of the meals uses bowls while the other uses plates...
Depending on your washing technique, this may be wasteful. Modern dishwashers are pretty darn efficient as I understand it.
This dishwasher isn't all that modern, but again, the issue is lack of dishes. We have several reasons for not wanting more and our water usage is well below average.
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Depending on your washing technique, this may be wasteful. Modern dishwashers are pretty darn efficient as I understand it.
I'm fully aware of the wastefulness every time I fill my sink with hot water to do the dishes by hand. Which is most of the time I've made food. But for me it's a physical form of mental therapy. Starting a machine doesn't soothe my mind the same way. At least I'm eating out more often than I should, thereby saving the hot water consumption. :)
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Coworker told me today he doesn’t cook. Well he will use the microwave.
Ah, see- my coworker takes to the next level and tries to argue that grocery shopping and cooking at home is just way too expensive compared to eating out.
He also lives a half mile from work via some very nice sidewalks but still drives every day.
In a brand new car.
Then bitches about his student loan payments.
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Coworker told me today he doesn’t cook. Well he will use the microwave.
Ah, that reminds me of a former coworker who once told me that in several years living (alone) in his apartment, he had never once used the dishwasher. He either ate take-out, or microwaved stuff and only ever used paper plates and paper napkins. He didn't even have regular plates. I don't remember if he had silverware or also only used disposable ones.
And no, he wasn't fresh out of college or anything. He was like 45 at the time.
We have been here for four years and never used the dishwasher. But it isn't for the same reasons: we just don't own enough dishes to fill it, so we end up doing dishes by hand. If we don't do it at the end of one meal, we usually need to do it to make the next meal. There are a few combos that let us get in extra meals, like DH likes to use a specific Tupperware for his salad or if one meal uses the sauce pan and frying pan and the next meal is baked in the oven and one of the meals uses bowls while the other uses plates...
Yes, that's different. In his case it's because he'd never had dishes to wash. So much waste, both literally, and financially.
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Coworker told me today he doesn’t cook. Well he will use the microwave.
Ah, see- my coworker takes to the next level and tries to argue that grocery shopping and cooking at home is just way too expensive compared to eating out.
He also lives a half mile from work via some very nice sidewalks but still drives every day.
In a brand new car.
Then bitches about his student loan payments.
And of course sees no connection between those things. So sad.
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Coworker told me today he doesn’t cook. Well he will use the microwave.
Ah, that reminds me of a former coworker who once told me that in several years living (alone) in his apartment, he had never once used the dishwasher. He either ate take-out, or microwaved stuff and only ever used paper plates and paper napkins. He didn't even have regular plates. I don't remember if he had silverware or also only used disposable ones.
And no, he wasn't fresh out of college or anything. He was like 45 at the time.
When I was in college I was absolutely horrified when the guy I'd just started dating invited me over and all he had were paper plates. I doubt its him but this made me think of him.
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Coworker told me today he doesn’t cook. Well he will use the microwave.
Ah, that reminds me of a former coworker who once told me that in several years living (alone) in his apartment, he had never once used the dishwasher. He either ate take-out, or microwaved stuff and only ever used paper plates and paper napkins. He didn't even have regular plates. I don't remember if he had silverware or also only used disposable ones.
And no, he wasn't fresh out of college or anything. He was like 45 at the time.
We have been here for four years and never used the dishwasher. But it isn't for the same reasons: we just don't own enough dishes to fill it, so we end up doing dishes by hand. If we don't do it at the end of one meal, we usually need to do it to make the next meal. There are a few combos that let us get in extra meals, like DH likes to use a specific Tupperware for his salad or if one meal uses the sauce pan and frying pan and the next meal is baked in the oven and one of the meals uses bowls while the other uses plates...
Depending on your washing technique, this may be wasteful. Modern dishwashers are pretty darn efficient as I understand it.
This dishwasher isn't all that modern, but again, the issue is lack of dishes. We have several reasons for not wanting more and our water usage is well below average.
We hand-washed dishes for a few years; no kids, a dishwasher would take a couple of days to fill.
When we had our first kid, that dishwasher started seeing daily use.
And yes, our newer Bosch model is uses very little water for a very well bin-packed wash, compared to our 15+ years old GE model. Also, detergents are much better now.
But there's nothing as satisfying as using Dobie pad + Barkeeper's Friend to make a pot/pan nice and shiny.
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heard from sysadmins talking about their plans to get hybrid/EVs are going to be cancelled because gas went down 10-15% from $5 (current $4.28-4.50 in my area). they're going to continue to drive their trucks (some have lifted) ~30 miles round trip daily, while continuing to bitch that they'd like to work from home a few days because of high gas prices.
meanwhile, their contract calls for onsite work, and they don't have the option to WFH. Also, they don't understand the telework agreement means WFH is an option based on approval for certain projects/tasks in the short-term, not on a regular scheduled basis. We're not gov civilians and don't have the flex to WFH like them, they're the customer and we're here to give them a good time while collecting pretty good paychecks.
these are the same chodes who made fun of me for buying my wife a hybrid a few months before COVID (gas prices were low and Honda couldn't sell the Insight on their lot, I got it for almost the same price as the Civic, same trim). And now that she's permanent WFH, it is my commuter car.
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heard from sysadmins talking about their plans to get hybrid/EVs are going to be cancelled because gas went down 10-15% from $5 (current $4.28-4.50 in my area). they're going to continue to drive their trucks (some have lifted) ~30 miles round trip daily, while continuing to bitch that they'd like to work from home a few days because of high gas prices.
meanwhile, their contract calls for onsite work, and they don't have the option to WFH. Also, they don't understand the telework agreement means WFH is an option based on approval for certain projects/tasks in the short-term, not on a regular scheduled basis. We're not gov civilians and don't have the flex to WFH like them, they're the customer and we're here to give them a good time while collecting pretty good paychecks.
these are the same chodes who made fun of me for buying my wife a hybrid a few months before COVID (gas prices were low and Honda couldn't sell the Insight on their lot, I got it for almost the same price as the Civic, same trim). And now that she's permanent WFH, it is my commuter car.
And I bet they just can’t see the connection between their choices and their situation, or how slick your situation has worked out due to your choices.
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heard from sysadmins talking about their plans to get hybrid/EVs are going to be cancelled because gas went down 10-15% from $5 (current $4.28-4.50 in my area). they're going to continue to drive their trucks (some have lifted) ~30 miles round trip daily, while continuing to bitch that they'd like to work from home a few days because of high gas prices.
meanwhile, their contract calls for onsite work, and they don't have the option to WFH. Also, they don't understand the telework agreement means WFH is an option based on approval for certain projects/tasks in the short-term, not on a regular scheduled basis. We're not gov civilians and don't have the flex to WFH like them, they're the customer and we're here to give them a good time while collecting pretty good paychecks.
these are the same chodes who made fun of me for buying my wife a hybrid a few months before COVID (gas prices were low and Honda couldn't sell the Insight on their lot, I got it for almost the same price as the Civic, same trim). And now that she's permanent WFH, it is my commuter car.
And I bet they just can’t see the connection between their choices and their situation, or how slick your situation has worked out due to your choices.
You can buy a lot of gas for the price of a new EV. I would be reluctant to buy a new car in today's market. Of course I drive a Ford Focus and work from home and ride my bicycle around.
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You can buy a lot of gas for the price of a new EV. I would be reluctant to buy a new car in today's market. Of course I drive a Ford Focus and work from home and ride my bicycle around.
A coworker of mine was attempting to convince me of the benefits of his new Tesla. Sure, compared to a brand-new gasoline-driven car of similar purchase price, the Tesla makes sense, but compared to my 25-year-old, $1750 car, it falls flat.
Actually, out of curiosity, let's compare the $50k Tesla to a $25k 2022 Camry, which gets 28-39 MPG. My coworker says he pays about $0.03/mile for electricity for his Tesla. He does a lot of highway driving, so let's assume his average gas mileage in the Camry would be 37 MPG. At current gas prices, the fuel cost for the Camry would be $0.15. That $0.12/mi difference puts the break-even point at 200,000 miles (8 miles per dollar of gas saved, $25k price difference). That, of course, ignores both the time value of money and the opportunity cost.
Wanna know how it gets even worse? The Camry Hybrid gets about 50MPG, for a fuel cost of $0.11/mile, or a difference of $0.08/mile. It costs $28k. That puts the payback mileage at over 250,000 miles.
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You can buy a lot of gas for the price of a new EV. I would be reluctant to buy a new car in today's market. Of course I drive a Ford Focus and work from home and ride my bicycle around.
A coworker of mine was attempting to convince me of the benefits of his new Tesla. Sure, compared to a brand-new gasoline-driven car of similar purchase price, the Tesla makes sense, but compared to my 25-year-old, $1750 car, it falls flat.
Actually, out of curiosity, let's compare the $50k Tesla to a $25k 2022 Camry, which gets 28-39 MPG. My coworker says he pays about $0.03/mile for electricity for his Tesla. He does a lot of highway driving, so let's assume his average gas mileage in the Camry would be 37 MPG. At current gas prices, the fuel cost for the Camry would be $0.15. That $0.12/mi difference puts the break-even point at 200,000 miles (8 miles per dollar of gas saved, $25k price difference). That, of course, ignores both the time value of money and the opportunity cost.
Wanna know how it gets even worse? The Camry Hybrid gets about 50MPG, for a fuel cost of $0.11/mile, or a difference of $0.08/mile. It costs $28k. That puts the payback mileage at over 250,000 miles.
Thanks for showing me this alternative calculation angle.
Camrys routinely get to 200,000 miles. What's the word on Tesla models, especially Model S?
I've read a few articles claiming Tesla's long-term reliability doesn't compare with Toyota.
(this is a genuine Q, not being sarcastic or trolling. I've only owned Toyotas and Hondas, all made to at least 150,000 miles/15 years before selling.)
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You can buy a lot of gas for the price of a new EV. I would be reluctant to buy a new car in today's market. Of course I drive a Ford Focus and work from home and ride my bicycle around.
A coworker of mine was attempting to convince me of the benefits of his new Tesla. Sure, compared to a brand-new gasoline-driven car of similar purchase price, the Tesla makes sense, but compared to my 25-year-old, $1750 car, it falls flat.
Actually, out of curiosity, let's compare the $50k Tesla to a $25k 2022 Camry, which gets 28-39 MPG. My coworker says he pays about $0.03/mile for electricity for his Tesla. He does a lot of highway driving, so let's assume his average gas mileage in the Camry would be 37 MPG. At current gas prices, the fuel cost for the Camry would be $0.15. That $0.12/mi difference puts the break-even point at 200,000 miles (8 miles per dollar of gas saved, $25k price difference). That, of course, ignores both the time value of money and the opportunity cost.
Wanna know how it gets even worse? The Camry Hybrid gets about 50MPG, for a fuel cost of $0.11/mile, or a difference of $0.08/mile. It costs $28k. That puts the payback mileage at over 250,000 miles.
I agree, the math just doesn't work for an expensive care like a new Tesla. If I were trying to argue a value proposition, I'd do it using a brand new $26,000 Chevy Bolt. Or Nissan Leaf for $20-22,000 after rebate.
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It’s been a while, but finally something to add here. Coworker today mentioned he’ll be able to get a new phone soon, which surprised me because it looked like his phone was pretty new. I asked him what phone he’s got and he said iPhone 12, but he gets a new phone every 2 years because he’s got a special phone plan. So, I’m like oh what does that cost? $110(cdn)/month. Ouch. That’s $65/month more than I pay for the same unlimited plan, which means he’s paying over $1500 to rent a new phone every 2 years on top of the normal cost for the plan.
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heard from sysadmins talking about their plans to get hybrid/EVs are going to be cancelled because gas went down 10-15% from $5 (current $4.28-4.50 in my area). they're going to continue to drive their trucks (some have lifted) ~30 miles round trip daily, while continuing to bitch that they'd like to work from home a few days because of high gas prices.
meanwhile, their contract calls for onsite work, and they don't have the option to WFH. Also, they don't understand the telework agreement means WFH is an option based on approval for certain projects/tasks in the short-term, not on a regular scheduled basis. We're not gov civilians and don't have the flex to WFH like them, they're the customer and we're here to give them a good time while collecting pretty good paychecks.
these are the same chodes who made fun of me for buying my wife a hybrid a few months before COVID (gas prices were low and Honda couldn't sell the Insight on their lot, I got it for almost the same price as the Civic, same trim). And now that she's permanent WFH, it is my commuter car.
And I bet they just can’t see the connection between their choices and their situation, or how slick your situation has worked out due to your choices.
You can buy a lot of gas for the price of a new EV. I would be reluctant to buy a new car in today's market. Of course I drive a Ford Focus and work from home and ride my bicycle around.
Well sure, but I meant the day they walked and bought their current vehicle. That choice is what put them in their current situation of complaining about costs.
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My coworker (65) told me he's retiring at the end of the year. He says he's got a little social security check and $25K saved up. Blue collar guy and currently makes $14 an hour; I don't think he's made much more than this in previous jobs. If he's still alive after a year, he "guesses he'll find another job." He's a pretty healthy guy so I don't think he has any terminal illness. It makes me sad because I do not know what his job prospects will be in a year at his age and he doesn't understand economics enough to know $25K isn't going to get him very far.
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My coworker (65) told me he's retiring at the end of the year. He says he's got a little social security check and $25K saved up. Blue collar guy and currently makes $14 an hour; I don't think he's made much more than this in previous jobs. If he's still alive after a year, he "guesses he'll find another job." He's a pretty healthy guy so I don't think he has any terminal illness. It makes me sad because I do not know what his job prospects will be in a year at his age and he doesn't understand economics enough to know $25K isn't going to get him very far.
Ouch. Every time I have a hard day at work and start to feel a bit down that I’m in my 30’s and probably not able to retire before 50, I remember that I work with people like this who are in their 60’s and can probably never retire, and suddenly I’m a lot more thankful of the position I’m in.
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My coworker (65) told me he's retiring at the end of the year. He says he's got a little social security check and $25K saved up.
Ouch. Nobody told him that the payment goes up the longer you wait, apparently :/
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My coworker (65) told me he's retiring at the end of the year. He says he's got a little social security check and $25K saved up. Blue collar guy and currently makes $14 an hour; I don't think he's made much more than this in previous jobs. If he's still alive after a year, he "guesses he'll find another job." He's a pretty healthy guy so I don't think he has any terminal illness. It makes me sad because I do not know what his job prospects will be in a year at his age and he doesn't understand economics enough to know $25K isn't going to get him very far.
This is like my roommate who retired at 64 without the savings or even understanding what his monthly benefit would be. But he has enough money to pay his rent and walk to the store to by booze. He is generally easy to live with and just hangs out in his room watching TV most of the time. IDK, sounds fucking depressing to me but maybe he is living his best life.
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My coworker (65) told me he's retiring at the end of the year. He says he's got a little social security check and $25K saved up.
Ouch. Nobody told him that the payment goes up the longer you wait, apparently :/
He knew, but he started taking his social security at 62. He said, "in case I don't live much longer I might as well enjoy it"...face palm and here we are years later.
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My coworker (65) told me he's retiring at the end of the year. He says he's got a little social security check and $25K saved up.
Ouch. Nobody told him that the payment goes up the longer you wait, apparently :/
He knew, but he started taking his social security at 62. He said, "in case I don't live much longer I might as well enjoy it"...face palm and here we are years later.
What's the math on this? I always read waiting is a good ROI but when I look at the implied rate it's not really that amazing (hardly a no brainer)
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My coworker (65) told me he's retiring at the end of the year. He says he's got a little social security check and $25K saved up.
Ouch. Nobody told him that the payment goes up the longer you wait, apparently :/
He knew, but he started taking his social security at 62. He said, "in case I don't live much longer I might as well enjoy it"...face palm and here we are years later.
What's the math on this? I always read waiting is a good ROI but when I look at the implied rate it's not really that amazing (hardly a no brainer)
Well, if you have the money to retire it is sort of a wash.
But if you don't have the money to retire and were born after Jan 1 1960 then you reduced your monthly benefits by 30% compared to your full retirement age.
https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/agereduction.html
Of course if you keep working past your full retirement age you get more benefits. Up to 24% more. That's the difference between $1240/mo and $700/mo if you were going to get $1000/mo at your full retirement age.
https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/1960-delay.html
But also your benefits are calculated based on your highest 35 earning years. So if you don't have 35 years (or you get to replace low earning years with high earning years) and you keep working you will be increasing your nominal full retirement benefit as well. This is only really helpful until you hit the second bend point (and super helpful if you haven't made it to the first bend point):
https://www.covisum.com/knowledge-base/what-are-social-security-bend-points
EDTIed to add that if you keep working for an additional eight years that is eight more years to save and for your savings to compound.
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Of course if you keep working past your full retirement age you get more benefits. Up to 24% more. That's the difference between $1240/mo and $700/mo if you were going to get $1000/mo at your full retirement age.
https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/1960-delay.html
Yeah but that's 8 yrs of 700 bucks a month that you aren't getting, 62 to 70. 8 yrs x 12 mo x $700 is $67,200 of payments that you aren't getting. It would take over 10 yrs at the higher pay to make it up, so you'd be 80. You can't just look at what you'd get in say 5 yrs. You have to look at what monthly checks you'd be missing for those yrs.
ETA--there are whole threads on this.
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Of course if you keep working past your full retirement age you get more benefits. Up to 24% more. That's the difference between $1240/mo and $700/mo if you were going to get $1000/mo at your full retirement age.
https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/1960-delay.html
Yeah but that's 8 yrs of 700 bucks a month that you aren't getting, 62 to 70. 8 yrs x 12 mo x $700 is $67,200 of payments that you aren't getting. It would take over 10 yrs at the higher pay to make it up, so you'd be 80. You can't just look at what you'd get in say 5 yrs. You have to look at what monthly checks you'd be missing for those yrs.
ETA--there are whole threads on this.
Yes, but those threads aren't about people that:
1. Could/would be earning more social security credits to increase their full nominal retirement amount.
2. Will be living in a tent and eating cat food if they don't keep working.
Otherwise I completely agree with the math and plan to take SS at 62. But I will be past the second bend point when I do and I won't be working.
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You inspired me to look at my SS statement. I hit 35 years of working this year, but in the 80's I only made $2,000+ of Social Security wages, and in most of the 90's less than $50,000. So now, every year I continue working drives the average up because the first ten years of work were basically for zero dollars.
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You inspired me to look at my SS statement. I hit 35 years of working this year, but in the 80's I only made $2,000+ of Social Security wages, and in most of the 90's less than $50,000. So now, every year I continue working drives the average up because the first ten years of work were basically for zero dollars.
I think you don't understand the calculation. SS doesn't do the calculation of benefits based on your wages, it does so on the inflation-adjusted wages. $2,000 in 1992 dollars is a lot more in 2022 dollars. Somewhere on the SS website or a manual calculation form on it are the inflation multipliers to use for each year.
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Another OT SS mention - if you're the lower earning spouse expecting to get 50% of the higher earning spouse's as your benefit, you have to wait for your full retirement age (67 for those born in 1960 or later) or your benefit is permanently reduced (https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/quickcalc/spouse.html).
As the lower earner who's also older than my high earning spouse, I plan to claim mine at 67, but then I believe I have to wait a couple years until he files to claim the spousal benefit (which will be more than double mine). It sure is complicated.
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Gotcha. But $2000 across 1988, 89, and 90 isn’t a lot of income whether inflation adjusted or not.
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You inspired me to look at my SS statement. I hit 35 years of working this year, but in the 80's I only made $2,000+ of Social Security wages, and in most of the 90's less than $50,000. So now, every year I continue working drives the average up because the first ten years of work were basically for zero dollars.
I think you don't understand the calculation. SS doesn't do the calculation of benefits based on your wages, it does so on the inflation-adjusted wages. $2,000 in 1992 dollars is a lot more in 2022 dollars. Somewhere on the SS website or a manual calculation form on it are the inflation multipliers to use for each year.
Are you past the second bend point? If you are it likely will make almost no difference.
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You inspired me to look at my SS statement. I hit 35 years of working this year, but in the 80's I only made $2,000+ of Social Security wages, and in most of the 90's less than $50,000. So now, every year I continue working drives the average up because the first ten years of work were basically for zero dollars.
I think you don't understand the calculation. SS doesn't do the calculation of benefits based on your wages, it does so on the inflation-adjusted wages. $2,000 in 1992 dollars is a lot more in 2022 dollars. Somewhere on the SS website or a manual calculation form on it are the inflation multipliers to use for each year.
Are you past the second bend point? If you are it likely will make almost no difference.
https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10070.pdf Used to be a table and calculations for benefits. It is now a generic hand wave of a document. If you can find an older version, then you can see how the inflation multiplier worked.
Here on page 3 (three), is a copy of the old version of EN-05-10070
http://chapters.onefpa.org/greaterindiana/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2017/02/Feb-2017-Qrtly-Boyd-Handout-Understanding-Social-Security.pdf
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My favorite SS visualization tool is https://ssa.tools/
It lets me easily see things like how many years I have credits for, what years I have less than four credits for, and where I am in the bend points both now and when I plan to stop working in the USA.
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My favorite SS visualization tool is https://ssa.tools/
It lets me easily see things like how many years I have credits for, what years I have less than four credits for, and where I am in the bend points both now and when I plan to stop working in the USA.
Thanks! I had done the long hand calculation for a few folks, and this is far better.
Replacing a ZERO with a year of maximum contributions only nets $52/mo past the second breakpoint, which is the rough equivalent of having an extra $16k in you stache (assuming the 4% rule as an equivalent), which is kind of rounding error. So work another year to pad your stache, but it really makes a miniscule difference to your SS check.
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TIL at work that there is an even more expensive super cooling/heating travel coffee mug with a handle that costs $100 and has a waiting list. To be clear, they cost about $20 on their website, but you can buy them from resellers on the web for $100 if you just cannot wait to be parted from your money.
https://www.stanley1913.com/products/adventure-quencher-travel-tumbler-40-oz
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TIL at work that there is an even more expensive super cooling/heating travel coffee mug with a handle that costs $100 and has a waiting list. To be clear, they cost about $20 on their website, but you can buy them from resellers on the web for $100 if you just cannot wait to be parted from your money.
https://www.stanley1913.com/products/adventure-quencher-travel-tumbler-40-oz
Sounds like a good business opportunity. It shows as 40 dollar though.
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Talking with a coworker yesterday about how he is deciding if to get a new van or not. He has like 5 kids plus him and his wife so has a ligit use for a big van but he was saying that buying a new one would save him 2k$ per year in gas. I replied that that alone would buy two of the ebikes commute with most days a week. He is moderately money smart but there is only so far you can go with a family that big. I think he has looked at smaller commuter cars and his wife that drives further uses one but he takes the kids to day care, and the both make enough to be worth working.
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Talking with a coworker yesterday about how he is deciding if to get a new van or not. He has like 5 kids plus him and his wife so has a ligit use for a big van but he was saying that buying a new one would save him 2k$ per year in gas. I replied that that alone would buy two of the ebikes commute with most days a week. He is moderately money smart but there is only so far you can go with a family that big. I think he has looked at smaller commuter cars and his wife that drives further uses one but he takes the kids to day care, and the both make enough to be worth working.
https://www.canoo.com/
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TIL at work that there is an even more expensive super cooling/heating travel coffee mug with a handle that costs $100 and has a waiting list. To be clear, they cost about $20 on their website, but you can buy them from resellers on the web for $100 if you just cannot wait to be parted from your money.
https://www.stanley1913.com/products/adventure-quencher-travel-tumbler-40-oz
Sounds like a good business opportunity. It shows as 40 dollar though.
Yup, most of the prices are ridiculous and most of the styles are sold out. Hence the $100 price on Amazon on similar
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Talking with a coworker yesterday about how he is deciding if to get a new van or not. He has like 5 kids plus him and his wife so has a ligit use for a big van but he was saying that buying a new one would save him 2k$ per year in gas. I replied that that alone would buy two of the ebikes commute with most days a week. He is moderately money smart but there is only so far you can go with a family that big. I think he has looked at smaller commuter cars and his wife that drives further uses one but he takes the kids to day care, and the both make enough to be worth working.
https://www.canoo.com/
Oh no I might actually buy this. Stupid MMM forums giving me ideas for spending money
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Talking with a coworker yesterday about how he is deciding if to get a new van or not. He has like 5 kids plus him and his wife so has a ligit use for a big van but he was saying that buying a new one would save him 2k$ per year in gas. I replied that that alone would buy two of the ebikes commute with most days a week. He is moderately money smart but there is only so far you can go with a family that big. I think he has looked at smaller commuter cars and his wife that drives further uses one but he takes the kids to day care, and the both make enough to be worth working.
https://www.canoo.com/
Only seats 7, too small for us (6 kids).
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Talking with a coworker yesterday about how he is deciding if to get a new van or not. He has like 5 kids plus him and his wife so has a ligit use for a big van but he was saying that buying a new one would save him 2k$ per year in gas. I replied that that alone would buy two of the ebikes commute with most days a week. He is moderately money smart but there is only so far you can go with a family that big. I think he has looked at smaller commuter cars and his wife that drives further uses one but he takes the kids to day care, and the both make enough to be worth working.
Was he talking about a Toyota Sienna, which is hybrid-only? It's about time Toyota came out with a hybrid minivan. It's too bad they came out with such an awful one, though.
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I despair of the design of the Toyota Sienna. If I wanted a child-killing front blind spot in the style of SUVs, I would buy an SUV.
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Talking with a coworker yesterday about how he is deciding if to get a new van or not. He has like 5 kids plus him and his wife so has a ligit use for a big van but he was saying that buying a new one would save him 2k$ per year in gas. I replied that that alone would buy two of the ebikes commute with most days a week. He is moderately money smart but there is only so far you can go with a family that big. I think he has looked at smaller commuter cars and his wife that drives further uses one but he takes the kids to day care, and the both make enough to be worth working.
Was he talking about a Toyota Sienna, which is hybrid-only? It's about time Toyota came out with a hybrid minivan. It's too bad they came out with such an awful one, though.
Dont recall which van he was talking about. Will see if I see a new Sienna in the parking lot soon.
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Talking with a coworker yesterday about how he is deciding if to get a new van or not. He has like 5 kids plus him and his wife so has a ligit use for a big van but he was saying that buying a new one would save him 2k$ per year in gas. I replied that that alone would buy two of the ebikes commute with most days a week. He is moderately money smart but there is only so far you can go with a family that big. I think he has looked at smaller commuter cars and his wife that drives further uses one but he takes the kids to day care, and the both make enough to be worth working.
Was he talking about a Toyota Sienna, which is hybrid-only? It's about time Toyota came out with a hybrid minivan. It's too bad they came out with such an awful one, though.
What’s a good option? I know Chrysler has a plug in hybrid but I don’t expect that to last two decades like my accord. The odyssey doesn’t even have a hybrid option though
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Talking with a coworker yesterday about how he is deciding if to get a new van or not. He has like 5 kids plus him and his wife so has a ligit use for a big van but he was saying that buying a new one would save him 2k$ per year in gas. I replied that that alone would buy two of the ebikes commute with most days a week. He is moderately money smart but there is only so far you can go with a family that big. I think he has looked at smaller commuter cars and his wife that drives further uses one but he takes the kids to day care, and the both make enough to be worth working.
Was he talking about a Toyota Sienna, which is hybrid-only? It's about time Toyota came out with a hybrid minivan. It's too bad they came out with such an awful one, though.
What’s a good option? I know Chrysler has a plug in hybrid but I don’t expect that to last two decades like my accord. The odyssey doesn’t even have a hybrid option though
Well, that's my frustration. I'd be quite happy with a hybrid version of a 3rd-gen (2006-2010) Odyssey--all the practicality, utility, and reliability of that generation (and lack of froo-froo electronics), plus the efficiency of the hybrid drivetrain. But even Honda has joined all the other automakers in encrusting vehicles with tens of thousands of dollars of sensors and cameras and electronics in the more recent generations..
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What do you do with co-workers who always want to ask you about money stuff, but never actually consider your advice? I have a co-worker, who thankfully I don't have to interact with on a daily basis, that always wants to talk about the stock market. She's mostly gambling on individual stocks without knowing much about them other than what the talking heads on TV tell her. For example, she told me the other day that her Microsoft Teams stock was doing well. I don't look at individual stocks a whole lot, but I'm pretty sure that's not actually a thing. I think she's talking about TEAM (Atlassian), but definitely specified that it's not MSFT. I've recommended A Simple Path to Wealth several times, but it goes in one ear and out the other because she's excited about the latest hot tip she's gotten.
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What do you do with co-workers who always want to ask you about money stuff, but never actually consider your advice? I have a co-worker, who thankfully I don't have to interact with on a daily basis, that always wants to talk about the stock market. She's mostly gambling on individual stocks without knowing much about them other than what the talking heads on TV tell her. For example, she told me the other day that her Microsoft Teams stock was doing well. I don't look at individual stocks a whole lot, but I'm pretty sure that's not actually a thing. I think she's talking about TEAM (Atlassian), but definitely specified that it's not MSFT. I've recommended A Simple Path to Wealth several times, but it goes in one ear and out the other because she's excited about the latest hot tip she's gotten.
Same thing I do with folks who want to tell me how their sports team is doing: smile, nod, maybe mutter congratulations.
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What do you do with co-workers who always want to ask you about money stuff, but never actually consider your advice? I have a co-worker, who thankfully I don't have to interact with on a daily basis, that always wants to talk about the stock market. She's mostly gambling on individual stocks without knowing much about them other than what the talking heads on TV tell her. For example, she told me the other day that her Microsoft Teams stock was doing well. I don't look at individual stocks a whole lot, but I'm pretty sure that's not actually a thing. I think she's talking about TEAM (Atlassian), but definitely specified that it's not MSFT. I've recommended A Simple Path to Wealth several times, but it goes in one ear and out the other because she's excited about the latest hot tip she's gotten.
Same thing I do with folks who want to tell me how their sports team is doing: smile, nod, maybe mutter congratulations.
Yup, exactly. These kinds of people don't actually want advice (even if they frame it that way). They just want to socialize and feel validated.
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What do you do with co-workers who always want to ask you about money stuff, but never actually consider your advice? I have a co-worker, who thankfully I don't have to interact with on a daily basis, that always wants to talk about the stock market. She's mostly gambling on individual stocks without knowing much about them other than what the talking heads on TV tell her. For example, she told me the other day that her Microsoft Teams stock was doing well. I don't look at individual stocks a whole lot, but I'm pretty sure that's not actually a thing. I think she's talking about TEAM (Atlassian), but definitely specified that it's not MSFT. I've recommended A Simple Path to Wealth several times, but it goes in one ear and out the other because she's excited about the latest hot tip she's gotten.
This was my dad. I simply say that I don't invest in individual stocks, only indexed mutual funds. Then I don't engage about it, which makes it no fun for them. ;)
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Look a stock up that doubled (or more) recently and tell your coworker you bought it and sold it with this big profit, and all you needed to do was putting in a random ISIN.
If coworker asks how you know that it would do that, answer: The same way as your advisors, they didn't.
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What do you do with co-workers who always want to ask you about money stuff, but never actually consider your advice? I have a co-worker, who thankfully I don't have to interact with on a daily basis, that always wants to talk about the stock market. She's mostly gambling on individual stocks without knowing much about them other than what the talking heads on TV tell her. For example, she told me the other day that her Microsoft Teams stock was doing well. I don't look at individual stocks a whole lot, but I'm pretty sure that's not actually a thing. I think she's talking about TEAM (Atlassian), but definitely specified that it's not MSFT. I've recommended A Simple Path to Wealth several times, but it goes in one ear and out the other because she's excited about the latest hot tip she's gotten.
I tell them I use index funds. Tell them to go research and come back with more Qs to help further. They don't come back.
TBH, most of these loudmouths are buying these "trending" stocks because FOMO YOLO syndrome, ZERO logical thinking, or reading any book from the Bogleheads recommended lists.
Don't invest anything in loudmouths, zero ROI.
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What do you do with co-workers who always want to ask you about money stuff, but never actually consider your advice? I have a co-worker, who thankfully I don't have to interact with on a daily basis, that always wants to talk about the stock market. She's mostly gambling on individual stocks without knowing much about them other than what the talking heads on TV tell her. For example, she told me the other day that her Microsoft Teams stock was doing well. I don't look at individual stocks a whole lot, but I'm pretty sure that's not actually a thing. I think she's talking about TEAM (Atlassian), but definitely specified that it's not MSFT. I've recommended A Simple Path to Wealth several times, but it goes in one ear and out the other because she's excited about the latest hot tip she's gotten.
Same thing I do with folks who want to tell me how their sports team is doing: smile, nod, maybe mutter congratulations.
That's exactly how I manage with all my coworkers who are deeply into crypto and meme stock.
I don't really mention to anyone I'm investing but I'm sure if I did they'd think I was crazy for investing in index funds in central-bank-controlled Euro's. These people expect collapse of the entire financial system tomorrow.
Well, if the whole financial system and capitalism collapse, the value of my index funds isn't going to be the biggest worry. Looking back we came pretty close to the whole Eurozone and financial system collapsing a decade ago and no one really remembers that. I am absolutely aware and possibly more knowledgable than them about everything that could go wrong, but if it all does collapse, does your crypto isn't going to save you.
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@Imma I'm curious if any of your coworkers invested in one of the crypto Ponzi schemes that have been in the news lately (Terra, Celsius, etc) and if they've talked about any losses.
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@Imma I'm curious if any of your coworkers invested in one of the crypto Ponzi schemes that have been in the news lately (Terra, Celsius, etc) and if they've talked about any losses.
I actually don't pay attention to the details because I'm so annoyed inside but trying to act appropriately on the outside, but they all talk about their massive gains all the time. Not sure why any of them are still working .... ;-).
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@Imma I'm curious if any of your coworkers invested in one of the crypto Ponzi schemes that have been in the news lately (Terra, Celsius, etc) and if they've talked about any losses.
I actually don't pay attention to the details because I'm so annoyed inside but trying to act appropriately on the outside, but they all talk about their massive gains all the time. Not sure why any of them are still working .... ;-).
DH has a colleague that talks just as much about how he spends it. Seems to be the it must be better because I spent more type. It is never about the deal he got.
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Talking to a coworker today and retirement came up. Coworker is 57 and said he can retire in 9 years which is when he gets full SS. He said he should have his brand new 34 ft RV trailer and brand new Ford F350 paid off by then. He makes ok money but that is a huge purchase at that age, in my opinion. I wish him the best.
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Talking to a coworker today and retirement came up. Coworker is 57 and said he can retire in 9 years which is when he gets full SS. He said he should have his brand new 34 ft RV trailer and brand new Ford F350 paid off by then. He makes ok money but that is a huge purchase at that age, in my opinion. I wish him the best.
In 9 years neither the RV nor the F350 will be "brand new" so they'll need to be replaced. Rinse and repeat.
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Talking to a coworker today and retirement came up. Coworker is 57 and said he can retire in 9 years which is when he gets full SS. He said he should have his brand new 34 ft RV trailer and brand new Ford F350 paid off by then. He makes ok money but that is a huge purchase at that age, in my opinion. I wish him the best.
In 9 years neither the RV nor the F350 will be "brand new" so they'll need to be replaced. Rinse and repeat.
I was thinking the same thing!
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just overheard:
not a co-worker, but someone who sits 2 desks away in cube-ish/open seating land. In a phone convo, he tells someone that he drives a huge truck, and between gas and tolls, his round trip costs about $27. Per day. Which is why he works mostly from home. But his boss, who I used to work with, told me the whole team is coming back to work full time in the office since COVID is over, and the special projects this guy was working on are coming to an end.
I need to stock up on popcorn kernels. going to melt some good NZ salted butter for drizzling on freshly popped.
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fresh one this morning
CW1: got a ticket and a warning yesterday. Warning for speeding, but she wrote me a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt. Unmarked State Trooper.
CW2: uh, seatbelts are really easy to wear...
CW1: I don't like belts, and I don't like seatbelts. I did wear it the rest of the trip. The ticket was $135.
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fresh one this morning
CW1: got a ticket and a warning yesterday. Warning for speeding, but she wrote me a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt. Unmarked State Trooper.
CW2: uh, seatbelts are really easy to wear...
CW1: I don't like belts, and I don't like seatbelts. I did wear it the rest of the trip. The ticket was $135.
Until recently I didn't realize there were people who still didn't wear seatbelts. Then I moved to the south and saw people holding their baby on the front seat.
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fresh one this morning
CW1: got a ticket and a warning yesterday. Warning for speeding, but she wrote me a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt. Unmarked State Trooper.
CW2: uh, seatbelts are really easy to wear...
CW1: I don't like belts, and I don't like seatbelts. I did wear it the rest of the trip. The ticket was $135.
Until recently I didn't realize there were people who still didn't wear seatbelts. Then I moved to the south and saw people holding their baby on the front seat.
To own the libs.
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just overheard:
not a co-worker, but someone who sits 2 desks away in cube-ish/open seating land. In a phone convo, he tells someone that he drives a huge truck, and between gas and tolls, his round trip costs about $27. Per day. Which is why he works mostly from home. But his boss, who I used to work with, told me the whole team is coming back to work full time in the office since COVID is over, and the special projects this guy was working on are coming to an end.
I need to stock up on popcorn kernels. going to melt some good NZ salted butter for drizzling on freshly popped.
Have a co-worker with a big truck daily driver who has been lamenting high gas prices and saying he needs to buy an efficient commuter for around $4K. Only honda or toyota though, because reasons. I comb the local auto for-sale ads pretty often, and mentioned to him several likely candidates locally, both honda/ toyota and other makes.
I've since stopped suggesting anything. As he hasn't actually looked at any used vehicles.
Really i think he just likes complaining about the cost of gas, because he came into a decent inheritance some time ago - but the priority seems to be outfitting a baby granddaughters room with California closets organizers, and other things an amercian baby can't live without apparently, to the tune of $4K+ recently...
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fresh one this morning
CW1: got a ticket and a warning yesterday. Warning for speeding, but she wrote me a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt. Unmarked State Trooper.
CW2: uh, seatbelts are really easy to wear...
CW1: I don't like belts, and I don't like seatbelts. I did wear it the rest of the trip. The ticket was $135.
Until recently I didn't realize there were people who still didn't wear seatbelts. Then I moved to the south and saw people holding their baby on the front seat.
To own the libs.
You know, when I used to live in a country where the typical city driving speed was 15 miles an hour in bumper to bumper traffic, and where I always sat in the back, I never bothered with seatbelts. Never had a problem in 30 years.
Then I moved to the US and experienced US freeway driving in the South. It put the fear of God into me. When I last visited my home country, I got nervous whenever I didn't use the seatbelt, even as a passenger in the back, riding along in slow city traffic.
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I recently transferred agencies within the federal government. New agency doesn't pay for parking at the office. Not a big deal--there's a free parking garage an 8 minute walk away (half a mile).
I learned that nearly all of my coworkers instead opt for the $10 surface lot next to our office building. $10 a day 2-5 days in the office per week. "That walk from the free garage will feel a lot longer when it's wintertime," I was told.
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I learned that nearly all of my coworkers instead opt for the $10 surface lot next to our office building. $10 a day 2-5 days in the office per week. "That walk from the free garage will feel a lot longer when it's wintertime," I was told.
...Which is why they're paying $10/day in the summer?
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I recently transferred agencies within the federal government. New agency doesn't pay for parking at the office. Not a big deal--there's a free parking garage an 8 minute walk away (half a mile).
I learned that nearly all of my coworkers instead opt for the $10 surface lot next to our office building. $10 a day 2-5 days in the office per week. "That walk from the free garage will feel a lot longer when it's wintertime," I was told.
Don't most federal agencies offer some kind of mass transit benefits? Mine will pay most of the cost a vanpool if you can find enough riders. I've heard of others that will subsidize metro passes.
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I recently transferred agencies within the federal government. New agency doesn't pay for parking at the office. Not a big deal--there's a free parking garage an 8 minute walk away (half a mile).
I learned that nearly all of my coworkers instead opt for the $10 surface lot next to our office building. $10 a day 2-5 days in the office per week. "That walk from the free garage will feel a lot longer when it's wintertime," I was told.
For $10 a day, you can find a better vice.
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I recently transferred agencies within the federal government. New agency doesn't pay for parking at the office. Not a big deal--there's a free parking garage an 8 minute walk away (half a mile).
I learned that nearly all of my coworkers instead opt for the $10 surface lot next to our office building. $10 a day 2-5 days in the office per week. "That walk from the free garage will feel a lot longer when it's wintertime," I was told.
Don't most federal agencies offer some kind of mass transit benefits? Mine will pay most of the cost a vanpool if you can find enough riders. I've heard of others that will subsidize metro passes.
Yup! I take advantage of the transit subsidy, but I can't really blame my coworkers for not using transit to get to work. I just happen to live within bicycling range of one of the only frequent and reliable bus lines in the area. Even then, my bus commute is 20 minutes slower than driving a personal car. The Detroit area has abysmal public transit.
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just overheard:
not a co-worker, but someone who sits 2 desks away in cube-ish/open seating land.
You’re as picky as my old (non)coworker. We were at the same company and hung out a lot. But we didn’t literally work together. One time someone asked how we knew each other and I said “oh we used to work at xxx together” and he got all huffy “WE DIDNT WORK TOGETHER WE WERE IN DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS”
AITA?
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I recently transferred agencies within the federal government. New agency doesn't pay for parking at the office. Not a big deal--there's a free parking garage an 8 minute walk away (half a mile).
I learned that nearly all of my coworkers instead opt for the $10 surface lot next to our office building. $10 a day 2-5 days in the office per week. "That walk from the free garage will feel a lot longer when it's wintertime," I was told.
Don't most federal agencies offer some kind of mass transit benefits? Mine will pay most of the cost a vanpool if you can find enough riders. I've heard of others that will subsidize metro passes.
Only if there is mass transit. So yes in big cities. But not in small to midsized ones.
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I recently transferred agencies within the federal government. New agency doesn't pay for parking at the office. Not a big deal--there's a free parking garage an 8 minute walk away (half a mile).
I learned that nearly all of my coworkers instead opt for the $10 surface lot next to our office building. $10 a day 2-5 days in the office per week. "That walk from the free garage will feel a lot longer when it's wintertime," I was told.
Don't most federal agencies offer some kind of mass transit benefits? Mine will pay most of the cost a vanpool if you can find enough riders. I've heard of others that will subsidize metro passes.
Only if there is mass transit. So yes in big cities. But not in small to midsized ones.
I live in a small, rural area where public transportation is non-existent at best. If I can find enough people going in the same general direction, work will pay up to ~$135 per month per person to rent a van for a vanpool. It's not ideal, but it would beat the 15k miles a year that I commute to work. I haven't been able to find a suitable ride yet, unfortunately.
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I recently transferred agencies within the federal government. New agency doesn't pay for parking at the office. Not a big deal--there's a free parking garage an 8 minute walk away (half a mile).
I learned that nearly all of my coworkers instead opt for the $10 surface lot next to our office building. $10 a day 2-5 days in the office per week. "That walk from the free garage will feel a lot longer when it's wintertime," I was told.
For $10 a day, you can find a better vice.
Maybe I should open an ice cream truck there... I just can't decide if the garage or the $10 parking lot is more liekly to produce customers.
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just overheard:
not a co-worker, but someone who sits 2 desks away in cube-ish/open seating land.
You’re as picky as my old (non)coworker. We were at the same company and hung out a lot. But we didn’t literally work together. One time someone asked how we knew each other and I said “oh we used to work at xxx together” and he got all huffy “WE DIDNT WORK TOGETHER WE WERE IN DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS”
AITA?
NTA. You were being polite, plus you hung out with that co-worker.
I'm not picky; just stating facts. At my customer site, we have assigned seating (miltary/gov thing). But only one person sitting around me is my co-worker. The other 8 in my row have nothing to do with the department I'm in. We don't interact. One of those 8 is an ex-co-worker but a classic brown noser and bus thrower ever since he moved from being a fed contractor to a gov civilian. I don't talk to him, unless he asks a question.
My family bumped into Brown Noser & family at a supermarket; I introduced him as person who sits next to me. Wife asked if we worked together. I said no, he sits next to me, we don't work on anything remotely related. He said the same thing of me to his wife. Just stated facts and moved on.
Brown Noser also had money woes when gas hit $5/gal this year. He decided to change his schedule to come to work at 4am instead of 6am; this way he has very minimal red light stops and reduces idling his souped up lifted truck. But then his boss and co-workers are looking for him all afternoon when he's gone home. His wife is a college instructor and they eat out every night or get takeaway, despite renovating a huge kitchen. He's wondering why their daughter has been told she's overweight by the doc. He talks a lot about his family to his boss over video calls, and the folks in my and adjacent rows have a case of TMI. Sometimes his boss' boss comes over and tells him to stop yapping and get working. Oh the joys of being a gov civilian.
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I recently transferred agencies within the federal government. New agency doesn't pay for parking at the office. Not a big deal--there's a free parking garage an 8 minute walk away (half a mile).
I learned that nearly all of my coworkers instead opt for the $10 surface lot next to our office building. $10 a day 2-5 days in the office per week. "That walk from the free garage will feel a lot longer when it's wintertime," I was told.
Don't most federal agencies offer some kind of mass transit benefits? Mine will pay most of the cost a vanpool if you can find enough riders. I've heard of others that will subsidize metro passes.
Only if there is mass transit. So yes in big cities. But not in small to midsized ones.
I live in a small, rural area where public transportation is non-existent at best. If I can find enough people going in the same general direction, work will pay up to ~$135 per month per person to rent a van for a vanpool. It's not ideal, but it would beat the 15k miles a year that I commute to work. I haven't been able to find a suitable ride yet, unfortunately.
I used to work at a public agency with an even better incentive. If you rode your bike (my choice) or commuted, you got extra vacation time. It totaled 2 extra days per year. So, I got to be outside and get exercise every day, and I got more time off!
I was one of a tiny handful that took advantage of the benefit.
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Co-worker1: Getting the boat taken out of the water and back in storage next week before the frost hits.
Co-worker2: How many days did you get out on the boat this season?
Co-worker: Actually none the water was low this year and my depth sensor needs fixing, the gas prices were really high this year... hoping next season to really enjoy it and take it out a lot more.
I can't help but think about all the cash my co-worker is throwing into this money pit on the water! All for the pleasure of spending even more money on maintenance and replacement parts.
- $ to have his large boat put into the water
- $$$ for mooring all summer
- $ to pull the boat out
- $$ to get the boat winterized
- $$$ for winter storage
There is insurance and gas on top of that. My co-worker should have listened to Felix Dennis.
(https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-if-it-flies-floats-or-fornicates-always-rent-it-it-s-cheaper-in-the-long-run-felix-dennis-75-14-88.jpg)
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Co-worker1: Getting the boat taken out of the water and back in storage next week before the frost hits.
Co-worker2: How many days did you get out on the boat this season?
Co-worker: Actually none the water was low this year and my depth sensor needs fixing, the gas prices were really high this year... hoping next season to really enjoy it and take it out a lot more.
I can't help but think about all the cash my co-worker is throwing into this money pit on the water! All for the pleasure of spending even more money on maintenance and replacement parts.
- $ to have his large boat put into the water
- $$$ for mooring all summer
- $ to pull the boat out
- $$ to get the boat winterized
- $$$ for winter storage
There is insurance and gas on top of that. My co-worker should have listened to Felix Dennis.
(https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-if-it-flies-floats-or-fornicates-always-rent-it-it-s-cheaper-in-the-long-run-felix-dennis-75-14-88.jpg)
Yep. We had sailboats for a while, and the last one we had was on a lake that took us about 20 minutes to get to. At the end of the second summer we had it there, we realized the cost per sailing hour ended up just way too exorbitant to justify keeping it. So we sold the boat. I know DH sometimes wishes we still had it, but I do not.
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I benefit from my MiL being committed to the boating project. She has owned the boat for years, and springs for a lot of the cost. I'm trying to get better about showing up with cash for tips, etc., when she has them dock her boat, but i'm not the best about this.
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My DH and FIL had/have boats at a marina 2 hours away. It's a beautiful place, but the drive is a killer. We used to go all the time, and camp on the boat almost every weekend. It had been a long time since then and both really need to be sold. But not my circus, not my monkeys. I've got plenty of monkeys of my own that have to be wrangled right now.
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That's why I have a kayak. Actually I have 3 kayaks and 2 canoes but they are all still cheaper than owning a boat.
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I recently transferred agencies within the federal government. New agency doesn't pay for parking at the office. Not a big deal--there's a free parking garage an 8 minute walk away (half a mile).
I learned that nearly all of my coworkers instead opt for the $10 surface lot next to our office building. $10 a day 2-5 days in the office per week. "That walk from the free garage will feel a lot longer when it's wintertime," I was told.
Not co-worker related, but it reminds me of the medical office building where I saw doctors several times a year until we moved last year. The attached parking garage was $3.50/hr IIRC, and of course it always took at least an hour for the appointment so you're looking at $7 each visit. I noticed after my very first visit that street parking was FREE. And there were always spots available within a block. I mentioned it to a friend one time who thought I was nuts for being willing to walk 3 minutes each way to save $7. So after that I kept the secret free parking to myself.
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That's why I have a kayak. Actually I have 3 kayaks and 2 canoes but they are all still cheaper than owning a boat.
I have 6 kayaks. The great thing about them is they are plastic and if stored dry and inside, there is zero maintenance. They’re heavy, but oh well. Now if only the rubber necks and wrists on my dry gear required zero maintenance…
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A coworker recently took his F150 in for an oil change and they found a piece of metal in the oil that was guessed to be part of the timing chain. I saw a pic of it and I'm not so sure, but I don't pay much attention to trucks so I'll assume it is true. Note, the truck is still running fine with only 140k miles and no other symptoms, warning lights, expensive noises, or additional holes in the block so whatever it is hasn't caused a catastrophic failure at this point.
Next stop: New truck dealer! Woo! Time for a $30k Maverick + $8k in accessories (including the paint protection, natch). All this wrapped into an 84mo loan at 8.5%. But wait! He negotiated it down to 84mo at 7.7% at delivery - very shrewd.
He did trade in the old F150 for 10k and it had been paid off earlier... because he did a cash-out mortgage refi a short time ago and paid the balance. That refi also may have funded a new Harley, too, although that could have been covered by him taking a disbursement from his 401k when he was unemployed before starting here - my inner self was laughing too hard to remember the timeline exactly.
He's also the type to have a truck due to the macho factor so the rest of us are thinking of starting a pool to see how long he lasts with the Maverick trucklet before he decides he "needs" a full-size, again.
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A coworker recently took his F150 in for an oil change and they found a piece of metal in the oil that was guessed to be part of the timing chain. I saw a pic of it and I'm not so sure, but I don't pay much attention to trucks so I'll assume it is true. Note, the truck is still running fine with only 140k miles and no other symptoms, warning lights, expensive noises, or additional holes in the block so whatever it is hasn't caused a catastrophic failure at this point.
My guess is that it's a piece of the timing chain guide/tensioner. If the timing chain goes, the whole engine stops, but a failing tensioner/guide might still allow the engine to operate for a little bit without catastrophic results. But gosh, either way, if the truck was still running fine, it's $1000ish to replace all the affected parts, and you're back on the road again.
It's crazy to me how much people are willing to pay when their car hits 100,000 miles and a bunch of maintenance is due at once. Tires, shocks, timing belt, various fluids...yeah, if you're paying a mechanic, those add up to a couple grand, but once you're through it, your car is pretty much good for another 100k with normal maintenance, for a whole lot less money than a brand new car. And if you do your own car repair, it's a few hundred bucks in parts.
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A coworker recently took his F150 in for an oil change and they found a piece of metal in the oil that was guessed to be part of the timing chain. I saw a pic of it and I'm not so sure, but I don't pay much attention to trucks so I'll assume it is true. Note, the truck is still running fine with only 140k miles and no other symptoms, warning lights, expensive noises, or additional holes in the block so whatever it is hasn't caused a catastrophic failure at this point.
My guess is that it's a piece of the timing chain guide/tensioner. If the timing chain goes, the whole engine stops, but a failing tensioner/guide might still allow the engine to operate for a little bit without catastrophic results. But gosh, either way, if the truck was still running fine, it's $1000ish to replace all the affected parts, and you're back on the road again.
It's crazy to me how much people are willing to pay when their car hits 100,000 miles and a bunch of maintenance is due at once. Tires, shocks, timing belt, various fluids...yeah, if you're paying a mechanic, those add up to a couple grand, but once you're through it, your car is pretty much good for another 100k with normal maintenance, for a whole lot less money than a brand new car. And if you do your own car repair, it's a few hundred bucks in parts.
I AGREE!
I worked with someone who said to me something like "My car just hit 30K miles, so I need to get to the dealer to look for a new one." I asked why - somewhat dumbfounded. They said, "That's when things start needing to be replaced."
My last car had over 200K miles on it - and I did all the maintenance (e.g. Brakes, Oil, filters, brake fluid change, hoses, shocks). Same for my current truck. It has 88K miles on it, and I expect it to at least make it to 200K+. It's a diesel - which may warrant a face punch - but I haul heavy things frequently, and hopefully it will run until the body falls off.
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A coworker recently took his F150 in for an oil change and they found a piece of metal in the oil that was guessed to be part of the timing chain. I saw a pic of it and I'm not so sure, but I don't pay much attention to trucks so I'll assume it is true. Note, the truck is still running fine with only 140k miles and no other symptoms, warning lights, expensive noises, or additional holes in the block so whatever it is hasn't caused a catastrophic failure at this point.
My guess is that it's a piece of the timing chain guide/tensioner. If the timing chain goes, the whole engine stops, but a failing tensioner/guide might still allow the engine to operate for a little bit without catastrophic results. But gosh, either way, if the truck was still running fine, it's $1000ish to replace all the affected parts, and you're back on the road again.
...
His was an Ecoboost 3.5L that has a few TSBs for chain stretch issues (rattling, codes) with the fix being to replace the primary chain and tensioners at a cost of $2-3k, mostly labor (book rate is ~9 hours, IIRC) and he's not the DIY type. Still, a far cry from a $30k new truck.
They didn't use a traditional roller chain on the main one - I don't know the term for the style but it looks like a row of small bands linked together and an individual band looked about the size and shape of his very blurry piece of debris. I would not have expected a failure like that but I've only messed with the normal roller chains. Like you said tho, a guide or tensioner makes more sense.
None of us in the audience cared to press the question since we already knew the story would end with "Check out my new truck!"
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It's crazy to me how much people are willing to pay when their car hits 100,000 miles and a bunch of maintenance is due at once. Tires, shocks, timing belt, various fluids...yeah, if you're paying a mechanic, those add up to a couple grand, but once you're through it, your car is pretty much good for another 100k with normal maintenance, for a whole lot less money than a brand new car. And if you do your own car repair, it's a few hundred bucks in parts.
Not mechanically inclined, will happily pay a mechanic... but we have a car that went over 200K last year and had a couple things go wrong. Took it in, no problem, can fix it all for about $1800. Great, do it. Spouse had a busy day at work so a co-worker took me to pick it up and we had this convo on the way:
CW: So are you getting a new car soon then?
Me (with surprise): No? It was pretty cheap fix!
CW: But you've had that car for the entire time we've worked together, it has to be up there in miles.
Me: a little over 200K, but we've literally done nothing in 12 years of ownership besides basic maintenance. This is the first thing to go wrong that wasn't something you'd expect to replace.
CW: And you trust it? I never drive mine over 100k!
Me: … I guess if fixes start happening more regularly we'll weight the cost, but for right now, yeah. Happy with it.
CW: Well, hopefully it doesn't leave you on the side of the road!
And a year later we've twice driven it across 2-3 states to visit family and our normal driving. NO additional work outside of basic maintenance. CW has purchased a new car and last we chatted is already talking about what she'll "upgrade" to in a year our two.
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And even if it leaves you on the side of the road, thats one really bad day in exchange for thousands of not more dollar. That is a risk I would take. I would not take the risk of me doing anything big on a ton of bullet I will be sitting in though.
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And even if it leaves you on the side of the road, thats one really bad day in exchange for thousands of not more dollar. That is a risk I would take.
Yeah, this. Are people convinced that the only time their car is gonna break down is at midnight on a backroad in Deliverance?
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Most breakdowns have some sort of weird symptoms in advance. Difficulty starting? Check the battery and alternator. Weird clunking noises when you steer? Get those ball joints replaced. Other things are just a matter of changing fluids or time-based changes of something like a timing belt. Sure, some sensors could go, but those usually won’t leave you stranded - just in limp-home mode. Even then, they’re not that expensive and you can replace them proactively if you’re really worried. A fuel pump could be a problem, but that’s also something that can be replaced at 100,000 to avoid worry.
I think it all comes down to your mentality on maintenance. Everything needs maintenance. You can do it proactively and preventively, or you can wait for it to break and then react. Once I’m not confident I can jump in my car today and drive 3,000 miles across the country, I’ll fix whatever the concern is. I’ve taken several cars well past 200,000 miles and being stranded on the side of the road hasn’t yet been a reason to get a different car.
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I have given up on my last two cars due to fuel issues that were hard to repeat in shop conditions, much less address. I still tired for a few months and paid for flushes and what nots before giving up. There was a very real possibility of being left on the side of the road on a rural highway in the first case, but it was cheaper to get my first cell phone than replace the car. Now that everyone already has a phone?
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It's crazy to me how much people are willing to pay when their car hits 100,000 miles and a bunch of maintenance is due at once. Tires, shocks, timing belt, various fluids...yeah, if you're paying a mechanic, those add up to a couple grand, but once you're through it, your car is pretty much good for another 100k with normal maintenance, for a whole lot less money than a brand new car. And if you do your own car repair, it's a few hundred bucks in parts.
So shockingly, most people do not plan for a $300-$1000 car repair bill, plus, they already have a monthly car payment. If it's close to or over 1k, they look for a new car because they can essentially roll that $$ problem into a new "affordable" monthly payment. I think monthly car loan payments mess with people's heads so they think they shouldn't have to (or can't) pay for repairs on top of that.
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It's crazy to me how much people are willing to pay when their car hits 100,000 miles and a bunch of maintenance is due at once. Tires, shocks, timing belt, various fluids...yeah, if you're paying a mechanic, those add up to a couple grand, but once you're through it, your car is pretty much good for another 100k with normal maintenance, for a whole lot less money than a brand new car. And if you do your own car repair, it's a few hundred bucks in parts.
Not mechanically inclined, will happily pay a mechanic... but we have a car that went over 200K last year and had a couple things go wrong. Took it in, no problem, can fix it all for about $1800. Great, do it. Spouse had a busy day at work so a co-worker took me to pick it up and we had this convo on the way:
CW: So are you getting a new car soon then?
Me (with surprise): No? It was pretty cheap fix!
CW: But you've had that car for the entire time we've worked together, it has to be up there in miles.
Me: a little over 200K, but we've literally done nothing in 12 years of ownership besides basic maintenance. This is the first thing to go wrong that wasn't something you'd expect to replace.
CW: And you trust it? I never drive mine over 100k!
Me: … I guess if fixes start happening more regularly we'll weight the cost, but for right now, yeah. Happy with it.
CW: Well, hopefully it doesn't leave you on the side of the road!
And a year later we've twice driven it across 2-3 states to visit family and our normal driving. NO additional work outside of basic maintenance. CW has purchased a new car and last we chatted is already talking about what she'll "upgrade" to in a year our two.
bolded part above: this is still a thing.
My uncle, when he moved to the USA in the late 70s, drove Chevys. and had issues once the cars hit 100k. He has that mentally ingrained even though he's owned only Lexus/Toyota since 1992. When his or his wife's vehicle hit 100k, he'd get them traded in for the latest model. It finally dawned on him he'd been pissing money away when he tried to trade in the minivan during peak pandemic; sales guy told him the price of a new one, and said the old one is good for another 200k by staying on the maintenance schedule (my uncle is fastidious about that). Now even he laughs at family parties that he's been an idiot for 30 years.
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Most breakdowns have some sort of weird symptoms in advance. Difficulty starting? Check the battery and alternator. Weird clunking noises when you steer? Get those ball joints replaced. Other things are just a matter of changing fluids or time-based changes of something like a timing belt. Sure, some sensors could go, but those usually won’t leave you stranded - just in limp-home mode. Even then, they’re not that expensive and you can replace them proactively if you’re really worried. A fuel pump could be a problem, but that’s also something that can be replaced at 100,000 to avoid worry.
I think it all comes down to your mentality on maintenance. Everything needs maintenance. You can do it proactively and preventively, or you can wait for it to break and then react. Once I’m not confident I can jump in my car today and drive 3,000 miles across the country, I’ll fix whatever the concern is. I’ve taken several cars well past 200,000 miles and being stranded on the side of the road hasn’t yet been a reason to get a different car.
When I bought my last car, I swore to keep it for 10 years or 200k miles, whichever came first. In the end, I kept it for almost exactly 10 years, and it had nearly 260k miles on it.
I sold it because I *had* kept up with maintenance, and it stranded me on my 50 mile, one-way commute. The manifold cover had apparently cracked due to heat and age (it was plastic) and that item is not on *any* maintenance list. It took 8 hours to diagnose. Happily, the shop ate the labor, as it cracked when they removed it to replace my spark plugs and wires.
So it's not always a lack of maintenance. I would argue that after 250k miles, it's sufficiently past its useful life span, and OK for you to get a "new to you" car, of whatever vintage you choose.
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not work, but at the gym. exiting, was walking behind a parent with their 2 kids.
kid: what's for dinner?
parent: chipotle
kid: but we had that for lunch with other parent
other kid: we only have chipotle for lunch
parent: well you can have it for dinner tonight
kid: but i already had it, dinner is supposed to be at home
parent: well i decided we're going to eat that
kid: that isn't healthy. it's a school night, dinner should be at home
parent: get in the car
not knowing context and more details, not drawing conclusions, it could be a one-off. but the interesting part was the thought process of the kids.
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It's crazy to me how much people are willing to pay when their car hits 100,000 miles and a bunch of maintenance is due at once. Tires, shocks, timing belt, various fluids...yeah, if you're paying a mechanic, those add up to a couple grand, but once you're through it, your car is pretty much good for another 100k with normal maintenance, for a whole lot less money than a brand new car. And if you do your own car repair, it's a few hundred bucks in parts.
So shockingly, most people do not plan for a $300-$1000 car repair bill, plus, they already have a monthly car payment. If it's close to or over 1k, they look for a new car because they can essentially roll that $$ problem into a new "affordable" monthly payment. I think monthly car loan payments mess with people's heads so they think they shouldn't have to (or can't) pay for repairs on top of that.
We just had an almost $2k car bill for my 16 year old car, though honestly, about $900 of that was regular maintenance and the rest was a repair. Spouse and I are talking about replacing the car...but you know with the supply chain issues and inertia...still probably won't be for a couple of years, if not longer.
It's a Toyota, so it's really only just middle aged.
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Spouse and I are talking about replacing the car...but you know with the supply chain issues and inertia...still probably won't be for a couple of years, if not longer.
It's a Toyota, so it's really only just middle aged.
Well, you don’t want to rush into these things…
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My sister's ex-in laws used to buy a new car every 2 years, trading in the old one at the dealership. They were well-off working class, and they always said 'it's his (fil's) hobby'.
To be fair to them: fil was a very handy guy, he built his own garage, landscaped their own garden and everything, and their rent was extremely low, and they went on holiday to the same campsite in Italy with their own caravan for 3 weeks every year.
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not work, but at the gym. exiting, was walking behind a parent with their 2 kids.
kid: what's for dinner?
parent: chipotle
kid: but we had that for lunch with other parent
other kid: we only have chipotle for lunch
parent: well you can have it for dinner tonight
kid: but i already had it, dinner is supposed to be at home
parent: well i decided we're going to eat that
kid: that isn't healthy. it's a school night, dinner should be at home
parent: get in the car
not knowing context and more details, not drawing conclusions, it could be a one-off. but the interesting part was the thought process of the kids.
I've overheard similar conversations recently. Eating out every day has got to be ruinously expensive - fast food inflation has been way higher than for other many things.
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not work, but at the gym. exiting, was walking behind a parent with their 2 kids.
kid: what's for dinner?
parent: chipotle
kid: but we had that for lunch with other parent
other kid: we only have chipotle for lunch
parent: well you can have it for dinner tonight
kid: but i already had it, dinner is supposed to be at home
parent: well i decided we're going to eat that
kid: that isn't healthy. it's a school night, dinner should be at home
parent: get in the car
not knowing context and more details, not drawing conclusions, it could be a one-off. but the interesting part was the thought process of the kids.
I've overheard similar conversations recently. Eating out every day has got to be ruinously expensive - fast food inflation has been way higher than for other many things.
You aren't kidding. Our go to "cheap" takeout dinner has always been the local sub shop. Two and half hot subs after tax and modest tip is over $50 now. It's very hard to justify.
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It's crazy to me how much people are willing to pay when their car hits 100,000 miles and a bunch of maintenance is due at once. Tires, shocks, timing belt, various fluids...yeah, if you're paying a mechanic, those add up to a couple grand, but once you're through it, your car is pretty much good for another 100k with normal maintenance, for a whole lot less money than a brand new car. And if you do your own car repair, it's a few hundred bucks in parts.
So shockingly, most people do not plan for a $300-$1000 car repair bill, plus, they already have a monthly car payment. If it's close to or over 1k, they look for a new car because they can essentially roll that $$ problem into a new "affordable" monthly payment. I think monthly car loan payments mess with people's heads so they think they shouldn't have to (or can't) pay for repairs on top of that.
We just had an almost $2k car bill for my 16 year old car, though honestly, about $900 of that was regular maintenance and the rest was a repair. Spouse and I are talking about replacing the car...but you know with the supply chain issues and inertia...still probably won't be for a couple of years, if not longer.
It's a Toyota, so it's really only just middle aged.
hahaha... mine is a now 13 year old toyota with 215k on it... so you know, I expect we still have some time yet.
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It's crazy to me how much people are willing to pay when their car hits 100,000 miles and a bunch of maintenance is due at once. Tires, shocks, timing belt, various fluids...yeah, if you're paying a mechanic, those add up to a couple grand, but once you're through it, your car is pretty much good for another 100k with normal maintenance, for a whole lot less money than a brand new car. And if you do your own car repair, it's a few hundred bucks in parts.
So shockingly, most people do not plan for a $300-$1000 car repair bill, plus, they already have a monthly car payment. If it's close to or over 1k, they look for a new car because they can essentially roll that $$ problem into a new "affordable" monthly payment. I think monthly car loan payments mess with people's heads so they think they shouldn't have to (or can't) pay for repairs on top of that.
We just had an almost $2k car bill for my 16 year old car, though honestly, about $900 of that was regular maintenance and the rest was a repair. Spouse and I are talking about replacing the car...but you know with the supply chain issues and inertia...still probably won't be for a couple of years, if not longer.
It's a Toyota, so it's really only just middle aged.
hahaha... mine is a now 13 year old toyota with 215k on it... so you know, I expect we still have some time yet.
My Toyota Matrix turns 20 this month and has 150K kilometres on it. It's still a baby.
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It's crazy to me how much people are willing to pay when their car hits 100,000 miles and a bunch of maintenance is due at once. Tires, shocks, timing belt, various fluids...yeah, if you're paying a mechanic, those add up to a couple grand, but once you're through it, your car is pretty much good for another 100k with normal maintenance, for a whole lot less money than a brand new car. And if you do your own car repair, it's a few hundred bucks in parts.
So shockingly, most people do not plan for a $300-$1000 car repair bill, plus, they already have a monthly car payment. If it's close to or over 1k, they look for a new car because they can essentially roll that $$ problem into a new "affordable" monthly payment. I think monthly car loan payments mess with people's heads so they think they shouldn't have to (or can't) pay for repairs on top of that.
We just had an almost $2k car bill for my 16 year old car, though honestly, about $900 of that was regular maintenance and the rest was a repair. Spouse and I are talking about replacing the car...but you know with the supply chain issues and inertia...still probably won't be for a couple of years, if not longer.
It's a Toyota, so it's really only just middle aged.
hahaha... mine is a now 13 year old toyota with 215k on it... so you know, I expect we still have some time yet.
Almost a year ago, I lost my 27-year-old, 250k mile Toyota to a rear-end accident. It was starting to rust, but mechanically was perfect, thanks to a combination of good engineering (from Toyota) and consistent maintenance (from me) over the 19 years we owned it.
215k? Eh, you're maybe on your second or third timing belt replacement, and it may be finally time to replace the rear brakes, and maybe your shocks need replacing by now. No biggie. Keep up on the maintenance, and that 215k-mile toyota is likely only middle aged.
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It's crazy to me how much people are willing to pay when their car hits 100,000 miles and a bunch of maintenance is due at once. Tires, shocks, timing belt, various fluids...yeah, if you're paying a mechanic, those add up to a couple grand, but once you're through it, your car is pretty much good for another 100k with normal maintenance, for a whole lot less money than a brand new car. And if you do your own car repair, it's a few hundred bucks in parts.
So shockingly, most people do not plan for a $300-$1000 car repair bill, plus, they already have a monthly car payment. If it's close to or over 1k, they look for a new car because they can essentially roll that $$ problem into a new "affordable" monthly payment. I think monthly car loan payments mess with people's heads so they think they shouldn't have to (or can't) pay for repairs on top of that.
We just had an almost $2k car bill for my 16 year old car, though honestly, about $900 of that was regular maintenance and the rest was a repair. Spouse and I are talking about replacing the car...but you know with the supply chain issues and inertia...still probably won't be for a couple of years, if not longer.
It's a Toyota, so it's really only just middle aged.
hahaha... mine is a now 13 year old toyota with 215k on it... so you know, I expect we still have some time yet.
My Toyota Matrix turns 20 this month and has 150K kilometres on it. It's still a baby.
Yeah, my matrix has just under 160k miles. I keep wondering when it's going to go over 160k...but I don't drive that often. I go to the office 3 days a week, so 100 miles a week would be a BIG week. (It's 20 miles round trip).
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Have one to contribute, I was at a work event recently with my DW and she was talking to one of the senior people at my work location, very nice guy. Our work place gets lunches brought in once a week to encourage people to all come in that day, we did that even before Covid since some of us work remotely. He mentioned to her that I had been seen taking leftovers from the lunches home, and that I seemed to still "live like a grad student". He is correct, I had noticed that it was very rare that anyone but me ever ate the leftovers (pizza, wings, sandwiches, etc.) so I brought most of them home rather than see them thrown out a few days later. We have averaged 1-2 free meals a week from work leftovers for the last decade.
He also brought up that I was retiring soon (which is well known around work), and said wistfully that he didn't know how we could manage that. Apparently he did not get the connection between those two things. . .
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It's remarkable how often people are unable to see that!
Like complaining about high car payments and in the next sentence saying to be envious that you don't have those because you drive a beater. Not quite the same, but still...
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It's remarkable how often people are unable to see that!
Like complaining about high car payments and in the next sentence saying to be envious that you don't have those because you drive a beater. Not quite the same, but still...
I don't know how you can live in such a small space/ have so little stuff --> How can you not be working full time? Isn't California sooo expensive?
Maybe, but we still manage to spend less than you. I wonder how we do it...
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We just had an almost $2k car bill for my 16 year old car, though honestly, about $900 of that was regular maintenance and the rest was a repair. Spouse and I are talking about replacing the car...but you know with the supply chain issues and inertia...still probably won't be for a couple of years, if not longer.
It's a Toyota, so it's really only just middle aged.
hahaha... mine is a now 13 year old toyota with 215k on it... so you know, I expect we still have some time yet.
My Toyota Matrix turns 20 this month and has 150K kilometres on it. It's still a baby.
Yeah, my matrix has just under 160k miles. I keep wondering when it's going to go over 160k...but I don't drive that often. I go to the office 3 days a week, so 100 miles a week would be a BIG week. (It's 20 miles round trip).
I just sold my 'basically new' corolla to a friend of mine (how we both kept referring to it). It was an '06 with 145k miles on it.
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I was in training this week and a coworker was telling me about her sister in law and her "crazy lifestyle", has three kids and have rented the same tiny townhome for 20 years, drive a car from when they first were married (20+ years ago). Only works part time and her husband doesn't make a ton of money. They take a vacation once a year and this woman does not understand how they can do it, seeing as her and her husband make triple what they do and have no kids and cant afford to survive. And why dont they buy a bigger house?? and upgrade their car? if only they could get their life together and stop the madness. How unsafe that old car was. lol... it was an interesting perspective and i wonder if family thinks the same about us sometimes. Anyway if you're in California living in a tiny house, driving some ancient car and are on here, Your family is totally baffled by your very existence.
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The whole concept of paying yourself first is lost on some people. Or most people.
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I was in training this week and a coworker was telling me about her sister in law and her "crazy lifestyle", has three kids and have rented the same tiny townhome for 20 years, drive a car from when they first were married (20+ years ago). Only works part time and her husband doesn't make a ton of money. They take a vacation once a year and this woman does not understand how they can do it, seeing as her and her husband make triple what they do and have no kids and cant afford to survive. And why dont they buy a bigger house?? and upgrade their car? if only they could get their life together and stop the madness. How unsafe that old car was. lol... it was an interesting perspective and i wonder if family thinks the same about us sometimes. Anyway if you're in California living in a tiny house, driving some ancient car and are on here, Your family is totally baffled by your very existence.
I've always wondered what my family and friends think of our lifestyle. I would bet that they just don't think I make much money. I have a job that most people, even those in the profession, have no idea what it pays. I even had a friend assume that I was in an unpaid internship when I first started.
I think they are too polite to come out and ask, but I've had a one or two friends try to commiserate about expenses, assuming that I could relate because we drive 10+ year old cars, live in a "starter" home in an no frills neighborhood, and our kids are in public school. I will never address it unless someone asks directly, because it feels like bragging. And it's good to fly under the radar.
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Have to share a recent work story.
Have a coworker who is married with two kids. Between coworker and their partner, they earn >$250K/year in a fairly LCOL area in the US. Said coworker was complaining to me about being house poor and how expensive kids are and how they won't qualify for loan forgiveness because of their high income - these are $100K student loans that have existed for nearly 15 years now and sounds like they haven't even attempted to pay them down.
Mind you this same family lives in a $500K house, 35 minutes from both partners jobs that are located in the same area but they drive separately for kid reasons - meaning they need to be able to pick up and drop the kids off at the private school right next to where they work.
I had to roll my eyes the other day when this coworker came into work and mentioned that for the holidays one partner purchased a new sports car w/ $600/month car payments. Of course, acquiring this new vehicle did not necessitate selling the old commuting truck. No, that continues to be driven because the new car doesn't have the right winter tires to be driving around with. Not to be outdone, the other family member acquired two cats to add on to the family bills while also looking to buy more land to house a horse that can no longer be ridden..
The real icing on the cake - this sports car has some of the highest insurance rates around because it has been the most ticketed vehicle in the US for three years running. Across the board, I don't even know what to say most days because the levels of time and money wasted simply astonish me for two otherwise very bright individuals.
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I had to roll my eyes the other day when this coworker came into work and mentioned that for the holidays one partner purchased a new sports car w/ $600/month car payments. Of course, acquiring this new vehicle did not necessitate selling the old commuting truck. No, that continues to be driven because the new car doesn't have the right winter tires to be driving around with.
I am so happy I didn't drink when I read that.
I guess it's meaningless to ask you what would be the right tires and why the car does not have them. Has it 30" wheels? Is it produced in Saudi Arabia who have never heard of winter tires?
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A few months ago I was talking with a colleague about the future and I mentioned that my goal was to retire in a in a few years (I didn't want to give away that it would be less than a year away). She was shocked and didn't believe it was possible. I've known her quite well over the last 15 years - we both started at the same time with the same company. I know approx how much she makes - I would guess around 250K between her and her husband. You would think this salary would enable someone to retire early - especially someone on this forum. Her comment was that she was still paying student loans (she's been out of school for 15 years), a mortgage (her house is now on the market for 1.3M), and her expenses are way too much to retire. All her kids are in private school.
Her comment towards the end of our discussion was, "You must really be good with investments, can you share any tips with me the next time you find a good stock?" I told her there aren't any secrets - just good decisions and investments are only half the equation....the expense side is also a key piece. I recommended she read The Simple Path to Wealth. She shook her head and said, I hope you know what you are doing and don't have to come back to work - I can't see how you could have enough money.
I thought to myself - yep, I bet you don't.
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Have to share a recent work story.
Have a coworker who is married with two kids. Between coworker and their partner, they earn >$250K/year in a fairly LCOL area in the US. Said coworker was complaining to me about being house poor and how expensive kids are and how they won't qualify for loan forgiveness because of their high income - these are $100K student loans that have existed for nearly 15 years now and sounds like they haven't even attempted to pay them down.
Mind you this same family lives in a $500K house, 35 minutes from both partners jobs that are located in the same area but they drive separately for kid reasons - meaning they need to be able to pick up and drop the kids off at the private school right next to where they work.
I had to roll my eyes the other day when this coworker came into work and mentioned that for the holidays one partner purchased a new sports car w/ $600/month car payments. Of course, acquiring this new vehicle did not necessitate selling the old commuting truck. No, that continues to be driven because the new car doesn't have the right winter tires to be driving around with. Not to be outdone, the other family member acquired two cats to add on to the family bills while also looking to buy more land to house a horse that can no longer be ridden..
The real icing on the cake - this sports car has some of the highest insurance rates around because it has been the most ticketed vehicle in the US for three years running. Across the board, I don't even know what to say most days because the levels of time and money wasted simply astonish me for two otherwise very bright individuals.
I worked in collections many years ago and some of the stories about not having money while having tons of "toys" would boggle your mind. $200k+ income with mutliple car, boat, motorcycle, etc payments but "I can only pay $10/mo on this medical bill" and if you make any suggestion otherwise they would use it as a good excuse to hang up on you. Then they would be shocked when they got sued because clearly they could afford to pay the bill they just needed to make some different choices.
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A few months ago I was talking with a colleague about the future and I mentioned that my goal was to retire in a in a few years (I didn't want to give away that it would be less than a year away). She was shocked and didn't believe it was possible. I've known her quite well over the last 15 years - we both started at the same time with the same company. I know approx how much she makes - I would guess around 250K between her and her husband. You would think this salary would enable someone to retire early - especially someone on this forum. Her comment was that she was still paying student loans (she's been out of school for 15 years), a mortgage (her house is now on the market for 1.3M), and her expenses are way too much to retire. All her kids are in private school.
Her comment towards the end of our discussion was, "You must really be good with investments, can you share any tips with me the next time you find a good stock?" I told her there aren't any secrets - just good decisions and investments are only half the equation....the expense side is also a key piece. I recommended she read The Simple Path to Wealth. She shook her head and said, I hope you know what you are doing and don't have to come back to work - I can't see how you could have enough money.
I thought to myself - yep, I bet you don't.
I also never discussed the details of my plan to retire early with coworkers. There was considerable disbelief when I gave notice. Most of them were resigned to work until they dropped but some could have retired any day but just couldn't do it even though that's all they talked about.
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A few months ago I was talking with a colleague about the future and I mentioned that my goal was to retire in a in a few years (I didn't want to give away that it would be less than a year away). She was shocked and didn't believe it was possible. I've known her quite well over the last 15 years - we both started at the same time with the same company. I know approx how much she makes - I would guess around 250K between her and her husband. You would think this salary would enable someone to retire early - especially someone on this forum. Her comment was that she was still paying student loans (she's been out of school for 15 years), a mortgage (her house is now on the market for 1.3M), and her expenses are way too much to retire. All her kids are in private school.
Her comment towards the end of our discussion was, "You must really be good with investments, can you share any tips with me the next time you find a good stock?" I told her there aren't any secrets - just good decisions and investments are only half the equation....the expense side is also a key piece. I recommended she read The Simple Path to Wealth. She shook her head and said, I hope you know what you are doing and don't have to come back to work - I can't see how you could have enough money.
I thought to myself - yep, I bet you don't.
I also never discussed the details of my plan to retire early with coworkers. There was considerable disbelief when I gave notice. Most of them were resigned to work until they dropped but some could have retired any day but just couldn't do it even though that's all they talked about.
DH has talked about a sabbatical or leaving all together awhile, at least with a couple of colleagues. The same people who marvel at his daily salad (once he developed some food intolerances, he even brought it on the rare occasion everyone would get together lunch) or his biking to work attribute his non dependence on his job entirely to not having kids.
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Have to share a recent work story.
Have a coworker who is married with two kids. Between coworker and their partner, they earn >$250K/year in a fairly LCOL area in the US. Said coworker was complaining to me about being house poor and how expensive kids are and how they won't qualify for loan forgiveness because of their high income - these are $100K student loans that have existed for nearly 15 years now and sounds like they haven't even attempted to pay them down.
Mind you this same family lives in a $500K house, 35 minutes from both partners jobs that are located in the same area but they drive separately for kid reasons - meaning they need to be able to pick up and drop the kids off at the private school right next to where they work.
I had to roll my eyes the other day when this coworker came into work and mentioned that for the holidays one partner purchased a new sports car w/ $600/month car payments. Of course, acquiring this new vehicle did not necessitate selling the old commuting truck. No, that continues to be driven because the new car doesn't have the right winter tires to be driving around with. Not to be outdone, the other family member acquired two cats to add on to the family bills while also looking to buy more land to house a horse that can no longer be ridden..
The real icing on the cake - this sports car has some of the highest insurance rates around because it has been the most ticketed vehicle in the US for three years running. Across the board, I don't even know what to say most days because the levels of time and money wasted simply astonish me for two otherwise very bright individuals.
I worked in collections many years ago and some of the stories about not having money while having tons of "toys" would boggle your mind. $200k+ income with mutliple car, boat, motorcycle, etc payments but "I can only pay $10/mo on this medical bill" and if you make any suggestion otherwise they would use it as a good excuse to hang up on you. Then they would be shocked when they got sued because clearly they could afford to pay the bill they just needed to make some different choices.
I had a very similar experience collecting for medical bills. I remember talking to one lady who lived in a very wealthy part of town to pay $50/month....which she paid for about 2 months before stopping. I sent it to legal for them to figure out.
There were plenty of times I just wrote them off if they really didn't seem to have any money.
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Having never been to collections, am I thinking correctly that you can see their credit report with all outstanding loans and payments? So when you have the conversation with them, you already kinda know what you’re dealing with? Is income included, too? That would be a fascinating experience for a little while. Then it would just be depressing.
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Having never been to collections, am I thinking correctly that you can see their credit report with all outstanding loans and payments? So when you have the conversation with them, you already kinda know what you’re dealing with? Is income included, too? That would be a fascinating experience for a little while. Then it would just be depressing.
Mine was pre-collection at the business level. So, I really didn't have much to go on. I would call them and ask them what they could afford to pay on a monthly basis to cover their outstanding bill. We tried to collect everything we could in this manner before sending to collection since we only got a fraction of what was recovered once it went to collection.
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Have to share a recent work story.
Have a coworker who is married with two kids. Between coworker and their partner, they earn >$250K/year in a fairly LCOL area in the US. Said coworker was complaining to me about being house poor and how expensive kids are and how they won't qualify for loan forgiveness because of their high income - these are $100K student loans that have existed for nearly 15 years now and sounds like they haven't even attempted to pay them down.
Mind you this same family lives in a $500K house, 35 minutes from both partners jobs that are located in the same area but they drive separately for kid reasons - meaning they need to be able to pick up and drop the kids off at the private school right next to where they work.
I had to roll my eyes the other day when this coworker came into work and mentioned that for the holidays one partner purchased a new sports car w/ $600/month car payments. Of course, acquiring this new vehicle did not necessitate selling the old commuting truck. No, that continues to be driven because the new car doesn't have the right winter tires to be driving around with. Not to be outdone, the other family member acquired two cats to add on to the family bills while also looking to buy more land to house a horse that can no longer be ridden..
The real icing on the cake - this sports car has some of the highest insurance rates around because it has been the most ticketed vehicle in the US for three years running. Across the board, I don't even know what to say most days because the levels of time and money wasted simply astonish me for two otherwise very bright individuals.
I worked in collections many years ago and some of the stories about not having money while having tons of "toys" would boggle your mind. $200k+ income with mutliple car, boat, motorcycle, etc payments but "I can only pay $10/mo on this medical bill" and if you make any suggestion otherwise they would use it as a good excuse to hang up on you. Then they would be shocked when they got sued because clearly they could afford to pay the bill they just needed to make some different choices.
My first grown-up job was calling people about their delinquent credit card accounts. I decided right then I never wanted to receive that kind of call. That was probably the first step on the path that put me here today.
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I worked in collections many years ago and some of the stories about not having money while having tons of "toys" would boggle your mind. $200k+ income with mutliple car, boat, motorcycle, etc payments but "I can only pay $10/mo on this medical bill" and if you make any suggestion otherwise they would use it as a good excuse to hang up on you. Then they would be shocked when they got sued because clearly they could afford to pay the bill they just needed to make some different choices.
I had a very similar experience collecting for medical bills. I remember talking to one lady who lived in a very wealthy part of town to pay $50/month....which she paid for about 2 months before stopping. I sent it to legal for them to figure out.
There were plenty of times I just wrote them off if they really didn't seem to have any money.
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I am part of the committee to determine who is approved for funding for a local health service. It is really interesting to see the income statements and financial situations of families, and I am able to get many of them matched to funding when they can't afford services - sometimes even more than the official maximum amount by using bridge funding and other solutions. BUT it is even more interesting to see the mustachian/frugal/etc families who have big medical costs plus big families and medium-low incomes who are so eager to pay it forward immediately by donating to others as soon as they can VS the families who are at the very highest income we would consider (or above) who just list their need for financial assistance as basically 'we are in multiple paid classes and sports and have to travel extensively for each child to compete in their multiple interests so we don't have money for [necessary medical therapy that will make a huge difference in child's life].'
A few people also submit blatantly fraudulent claims asking for support saying they are a single parent when the proof they give shows the other parent is very much living with them and has excellent health coverage and finances, they just don't want to pay. It is shocking and sad but I can only red flag them, I can't just yell at them that they are potentially taking needed funds away from the children and families who have a very real need and that there is limited money to go around. > end rant
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Having never been to collections, am I thinking correctly that you can see their credit report with all outstanding loans and payments? So when you have the conversation with them, you already kinda know what you’re dealing with? Is income included, too? That would be a fascinating experience for a little while. Then it would just be depressing.
The bill is due upon receipt. Most of the providers would accept payment over 90 days, but for anything longer required us to go over income, expenses, etc in order to show need.
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I've been in collections a half dozen times over my lifetime. Not as in collecting debts, but as in not having paid them.
I've only ever ended up there when I refused to pay because the other party did not do what they said they would do - in a major fail. I wasn't nitpicking.
For example, had a medical lab conduct a test and submit the insurance. Insurance was denied because they submitted the wrong insurance info even though I have given them the correct info. Told them several times over the next 90 days but they kept submitting the wrong insurance info. Finally, they sent me the bill instead. I refused to pay.
Why? Because they said they would submit the claim on my insurance first and I agreed to pay the difference after they did so. They never submitted a claim on MY insurance. I saw no reason I should be penalized for their incompetence. They sent me to collections. I told them to pound sand and why. That was the end of it.
Had a security company keep billing us for a service we canceled when we sold that house. Threatened to put it into collections if we didn't pay. I told them they were sending invoices thru the US mail for a service they were not providing to us and that we had cancelled. They could back off and clean up their mistake or I would report them to the US government for postal fraud and damages to my financial reputation re: collections.
Ok, that one didn't get to collections. But you get the idea.
By the way, if you get into one of these pissing matches where a company keeps billing you but won't listen, get their billing transferred back to US mail instead of electronic billing. Nobody seems to want to discuss postal fraud with the US Postal Service.
As for damage to my credit report, I just disputed it on the three services and that was the end of it. My credit payment history is so obviously good that no one was going to believe I had trouble paying some pissant little invoice.
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I am part of the committee to determine who is approved for funding for a local health service.
Coming from a "socialist" country I am not sure I understand that.
Are you talking about some sort of city-paid help for people who have no health insurance or where it is too expensive?
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I am part of the committee to determine who is approved for funding for a local health service.
Coming from a "socialist" country I am not sure I understand that.
Are you talking about some sort of city-paid help for people who have no health insurance or where it is too expensive?
Halftimer appears to be in MN - which is the US. So yes, people don't have health insurance or its too expensive. There's a variety of organizations that exist to provide financial assistance. Sometimes these are part of the health care system (the hospital, etc), sometimes they're independent nonprofits, sometimes its local/state/federal government, etc.
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I am part of the committee to determine who is approved for funding for a local health service.
Coming from a "socialist" country I am not sure I understand that.
Are you talking about some sort of city-paid help for people who have no health insurance or where it is too expensive?
Halftimer appears to be in MN - which is the US. So yes, people don't have health insurance or its too expensive. There's a variety of organizations that exist to provide financial assistance. Sometimes these are part of the health care system (the hospital, etc), sometimes they're independent nonprofits, sometimes its local/state/federal government, etc.
O.o Hospitals giving away money for healthcare?? And you guys are wondering why we Europeans can't understand your healtcare system? :D
On the other hand we expect out hospitals to run a profit, so there is that.
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I am part of the committee to determine who is approved for funding for a local health service.
Coming from a "socialist" country I am not sure I understand that.
Are you talking about some sort of city-paid help for people who have no health insurance or where it is too expensive?
O.o Hospitals giving away money for healthcare?? And you guys are wondering why we Europeans can't understand your healtcare system? :D
On the other hand we expect out hospitals to run a profit, so there is that.
Halftimer appears to be in MN - which is the US. So yes, people don't have health insurance or its too expensive. There's a variety of organizations that exist to provide financial assistance. Sometimes these are part of the health care system (the hospital, etc), sometimes they're independent nonprofits, sometimes its local/state/federal government, etc.
Actually, I live where most healthcare is government funded, but not this particular service. Some families are able to access services with public funds but it is a long wait time and the practitioners are not as specialist as they need (in most cases). So those families who cannot wait or need quicker intervention pay for private services or apply for funding for private services. I wish it wasn't so complicated.
*fixed the formatting
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My first grown-up job was calling people about their delinquent credit card accounts. I decided right then I never wanted to receive that kind of call. That was probably the first step on the path that put me here today.
Welcome to the forums, and how the heck did that great user name last this long? I can't believe no one else thought of it before this.
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She shook her head and said, I hope you know what you are doing and don't have to come back to work - I can't see how you could have enough money.
I thought to myself - yep, I bet you don't.
I had never told anyone about my plan to go out early. So when I said something, my boss asked if I would be willing to work part-time, 100% from home, no fixed hours. The money was fantastic. So for a couple years I worked about 20 hours a week. Then bowed out for good. When I told my lifelong best friend that I had wrapped it up, he was very concerned that I didn't know what I was doing. I had never once discussed money with him (or anyone else besides my wife). We live a very low-key lifestyle. Nothing flashy. So he asked me a ton of questions while avoiding specific numbers to gauge whether I was out of my mind or not, as my career never sounded like a lucrative thing. "Have you really looked at all your expenses? Including the ones that only come up yearly or quarterly? Have you looked into what you'll get from Social Security? Do you think you have a good cushion for when things get bad for a while? You know if you take Social Security early your check will be reduced. Are you sure you're not going too early? It might be hard to get a similar job if you change your mind later."
While inside I was so appreciative that he was that concerned, I could tell he was uncomfortable doing it (having this conversation we had never had before in 40 years).
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She shook her head and said, I hope you know what you are doing and don't have to come back to work - I can't see how you could have enough money.
I thought to myself - yep, I bet you don't.
I had never told anyone about my plan to go out early. So when I said something, my boss asked if I would be willing to work part-time, 100% from home, no fixed hours. The money was fantastic. So for a couple years I worked about 20 hours a week. Then bowed out for good. When I told my lifelong best friend that I had wrapped it up, he was very concerned that I didn't know what I was doing. I had never once discussed money with him (or anyone else besides my wife). We live a very low-key lifestyle. Nothing flashy. So he asked me a ton of questions while avoiding specific numbers to gauge whether I was out of my mind or not, as my career never sounded like a lucrative thing. "Have you really looked at all your expenses? Including the ones that only come up yearly or quarterly? Have you looked into what you'll get from Social Security? Do you think you have a good cushion for when things get bad for a while? You know if you take Social Security early your check will be reduced. Are you sure you're not going too early? It might be hard to get a similar job if you change your mind later."
While inside I was so appreciative that he was that concerned, I could tell he was uncomfortable doing it (having this conversation we had never had before in 40 years).
Most people are living in the thought that they can't retire until they are in their 60's (or later). I'm 51 and I think it just blows peoples mind that I could possibly have saved enough. In their own situation, the money flows out constantly so thinking about retirement is overwhelming.
My kids on the other hand are ready to retire and they haven't barely gotten started on their careers.
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She shook her head and said, I hope you know what you are doing and don't have to come back to work - I can't see how you could have enough money.
I thought to myself - yep, I bet you don't.
I had never told anyone about my plan to go out early. So when I said something, my boss asked if I would be willing to work part-time, 100% from home, no fixed hours. The money was fantastic. So for a couple years I worked about 20 hours a week. Then bowed out for good. When I told my lifelong best friend that I had wrapped it up, he was very concerned that I didn't know what I was doing. I had never once discussed money with him (or anyone else besides my wife). We live a very low-key lifestyle. Nothing flashy. So he asked me a ton of questions while avoiding specific numbers to gauge whether I was out of my mind or not, as my career never sounded like a lucrative thing. "Have you really looked at all your expenses? Including the ones that only come up yearly or quarterly? Have you looked into what you'll get from Social Security? Do you think you have a good cushion for when things get bad for a while? You know if you take Social Security early your check will be reduced. Are you sure you're not going too early? It might be hard to get a similar job if you change your mind later."
While inside I was so appreciative that he was that concerned, I could tell he was uncomfortable doing it (having this conversation we had never had before in 40 years).
You should have flashed the secret MMM sign, maybe he is here. Those were good questions and show an awareness.
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I got a story that swings the other way today at work.
Talking with a guy that does very specialized work and basically lives out of a suitcase traveling around the world (he seems to like it mostly) on the pros and cons of keeping his "home base" apartment we got a little deeper and he mentioned having a 90% savings rate!!! Not sure his exact math but by any measure he is doing well. Not sure his long term plain but he seemed aware that that 90% should be invested and at some point he could live off the proceeds.
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You should have flashed the secret MMM sign, maybe he is here. Those were good questions and show an awareness.
I was thinking this too. Finger-stache?
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She shook her head and said, I hope you know what you are doing and don't have to come back to work - I can't see how you could have enough money.
I thought to myself - yep, I bet you don't.
I had never told anyone about my plan to go out early. So when I said something, my boss asked if I would be willing to work part-time, 100% from home, no fixed hours. The money was fantastic. So for a couple years I worked about 20 hours a week. Then bowed out for good. When I told my lifelong best friend that I had wrapped it up, he was very concerned that I didn't know what I was doing. I had never once discussed money with him (or anyone else besides my wife). We live a very low-key lifestyle. Nothing flashy. So he asked me a ton of questions while avoiding specific numbers to gauge whether I was out of my mind or not, as my career never sounded like a lucrative thing. "Have you really looked at all your expenses? Including the ones that only come up yearly or quarterly? Have you looked into what you'll get from Social Security? Do you think you have a good cushion for when things get bad for a while? You know if you take Social Security early your check will be reduced. Are you sure you're not going too early? It might be hard to get a similar job if you change your mind later."
While inside I was so appreciative that he was that concerned, I could tell he was uncomfortable doing it (having this conversation we had never had before in 40 years).
You should have flashed the secret MMM sign, maybe he is here. Those were good questions and show an awareness.
Slight tangent: this is part of what make Camps and Meetups so freaking awesome. A virtually taboo subject IRL is discussed freely and fluently with plenty of like-minded others. So energizing!
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A new coworker has been complaining she has no money. She got into a car accident a year ago and rather than fix the car (a Toyota, I think) she took the settlement and bought a new Nissan. It's pretty and flashy. Now, she is a month late on her car payment. Her windshield is cracked and she can't afford to replace it. She is also behind on the "rent" she pays to her boyfriend so she can live in his house. Credit cards are maxed. They can't refinance their house. Debt to income ratio is too high.
I mentioned that maybe she could sell her Nissan, buy a used Corolla. Nope, she needs a new car so she doesn't break down on the highway. Tow truck? road side assistance? Nope and nope. To be fair, she lives in a kind of rural area, but she drives on a major interstate. Help wouldn't be far away. I drive a 2009 Ford. I told her I paid $5k for it. I also have a $5k Prius.
We have been really short handed at work, she could work extra shifts to help. She'd probably even get OT. Nope, too tired. She has made a bunch of crafts and is trying to sell them to us. We were talking about Christmas decorations. She has a lot of stuff already set up, plus she has a storage unit that has even MORE Christmas decorations. I told her I have one tote of decorations.
I haven't worked with her very long, so she doesn't know about the cult I belong to.
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A new coworker has been complaining she has no money. She got into a car accident a year ago and rather than fix the car (a Toyota, I think) she took the settlement and bought a new Nissan. It's pretty and flashy. Now, she is a month late on her car payment. Her windshield is cracked and she can't afford to replace it. She is also behind on the "rent" she pays to her boyfriend so she can live in his house. Credit cards are maxed. They can't refinance their house. Debt to income ratio is too high.
I mentioned that maybe she could sell her Nissan, buy a used Corolla. Nope, she needs a new car so she doesn't break down on the highway. Tow truck? road side assistance? Nope and nope.
So glad my first car (20 years old when I bought it) was a Pinto and in pre-cell phone days to boot. Good anchoring point. For the record, she only ditched me twice in ten years, and only once for engine problems - the other time was just a flat tire. In both instances I was within half a mile of public telephones from which I could call dad/bf to come get me.
Granted, I was a lot younger then. Today of course I have roadside assistance for my 2009 Honda Fit, which I did use once to get the battery jumped. I can stand waiting for a tow truck once per decade, if it comes to that.
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Slight tangent: this is part of what make Camps and Meetups so freaking awesome. A virtually taboo subject IRL is discussed freely and fluently with plenty of like-minded others. So energizing!
I used to really long for this. I considered going to a showing of the Playing with FIRE doc, although kinda glad I skipped it after reading the book. I still do wish for more real-life community, but increasingly worry about the implicit risk of non-anonymous exposure of even an outline of my financial position. I have found I can generally can only be detailed with people making twice or more my income, since it gives them a chance of saving something like as much.
The only person I've ever met in real life who knew who MMM was, a coworker, was kind of a terrible person - knowing their competitive nature I figured I'd better not sound more successful at it than they were. Turned out later I'd dodged a bullet by lowballing my progress & making myself sound boring.
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Slight tangent: this is part of what make Camps and Meetups so freaking awesome. A virtually taboo subject IRL is discussed freely and fluently with plenty of like-minded others. So energizing!
I used to really long for this. I considered going to a showing of the Playing with FIRE doc, although kinda glad I skipped it after reading the book. I still do wish for more real-life community, but increasingly worry about the implicit risk of non-anonymous exposure of even an outline of my financial position. I have found I can generally can only be detailed with people making twice or more my income, since it gives them a chance of saving something like as much.
The only person I've ever met in real life who knew who MMM was, a coworker, was kind of a terrible person - knowing their competitive nature I figured I'd better not sound more successful at it than they were. Turned out later I'd dodged a bullet by lowballing my progress & making myself sound boring.
One of my co-workers had two rentals and we would swap stories of being a landlord. It was mostly venting to each other, but part of it was sharing information to help each person get better. He sold his rentals and verbally told me he doesn't want to hear any of my stories He said, "I'm out of the rental game and I don't need the stress." We spent the last two years talking about this and now it's immediately off limits? Kind of weird, but whatever.
He sold at the very beginning of COVID-19 when things were a little slow and down. Now two years later, he makes comments to other people at work that I have too much money. I think he has some small regret of selling at a perceived low point. He vents his anger by telling other people my financial position without my permission. Be careful who you share financials with at work.
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Slight tangent: this is part of what make Camps and Meetups so freaking awesome. A virtually taboo subject IRL is discussed freely and fluently with plenty of like-minded others. So energizing!
I used to really long for this. I considered going to a showing of the Playing with FIRE doc, although kinda glad I skipped it after reading the book. I still do wish for more real-life community, but increasingly worry about the implicit risk of non-anonymous exposure of even an outline of my financial position. I have found I can generally can only be detailed with people making twice or more my income, since it gives them a chance of saving something like as much.
The only person I've ever met in real life who knew who MMM was, a coworker, was kind of a terrible person - knowing their competitive nature I figured I'd better not sound more successful at it than they were. Turned out later I'd dodged a bullet by lowballing my progress & making myself sound boring.
One of my co-workers had two rentals and we would swap stories of being a landlord. It was mostly venting to each other, but part of it was sharing information to help each person get better. He sold his rentals and verbally told me he doesn't want to hear any of my stories He said, "I'm out of the rental game and I don't need the stress." We spent the last two years talking about this and now it's immediately off limits? Kind of weird, but whatever.
He sold at the very beginning of COVID-19 when things were a little slow and down. Now two years later, he makes comments to other people at work that I have too much money. I think he has some small regret of selling at a perceived low point. He vents his anger by telling other people my financial position without my permission. Be careful who you share financials with at work.
Yikes, Clarkfan1979! That sounds really uncomfortable for you. I am sorry your co-worker behaves like this.
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Slight tangent: this is part of what make Camps and Meetups so freaking awesome. A virtually taboo subject IRL is discussed freely and fluently with plenty of like-minded others. So energizing!
I used to really long for this. I considered going to a showing of the Playing with FIRE doc, although kinda glad I skipped it after reading the book. I still do wish for more real-life community, but increasingly worry about the implicit risk of non-anonymous exposure of even an outline of my financial position. I have found I can generally can only be detailed with people making twice or more my income, since it gives them a chance of saving something like as much.
The only person I've ever met in real life who knew who MMM was, a coworker, was kind of a terrible person - knowing their competitive nature I figured I'd better not sound more successful at it than they were. Turned out later I'd dodged a bullet by lowballing my progress & making myself sound boring.
One of my co-workers had two rentals and we would swap stories of being a landlord. It was mostly venting to each other, but part of it was sharing information to help each person get better. He sold his rentals and verbally told me he doesn't want to hear any of my stories He said, "I'm out of the rental game and I don't need the stress." We spent the last two years talking about this and now it's immediately off limits? Kind of weird, but whatever.
He sold at the very beginning of COVID-19 when things were a little slow and down. Now two years later, he makes comments to other people at work that I have too much money. I think he has some small regret of selling at a perceived low point. He vents his anger by telling other people my financial position without my permission. Be careful who you share financials with at work.
You're going to have to burn this bridge.
"Carl, I understand you have been telling people about my financials. I would like you to stop."
...
Carl asks some questions, maybe a little discussion
...
"Can you promise me you will stop?" Keep pressing until you get a Yes.
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Slight tangent: this is part of what make Camps and Meetups so freaking awesome. A virtually taboo subject IRL is discussed freely and fluently with plenty of like-minded others. So energizing!
I used to really long for this. I considered going to a showing of the Playing with FIRE doc, although kinda glad I skipped it after reading the book. I still do wish for more real-life community, but increasingly worry about the implicit risk of non-anonymous exposure of even an outline of my financial position. I have found I can generally can only be detailed with people making twice or more my income, since it gives them a chance of saving something like as much.
The only person I've ever met in real life who knew who MMM was, a coworker, was kind of a terrible person - knowing their competitive nature I figured I'd better not sound more successful at it than they were. Turned out later I'd dodged a bullet by lowballing my progress & making myself sound boring.
One of my co-workers had two rentals and we would swap stories of being a landlord. It was mostly venting to each other, but part of it was sharing information to help each person get better. He sold his rentals and verbally told me he doesn't want to hear any of my stories He said, "I'm out of the rental game and I don't need the stress." We spent the last two years talking about this and now it's immediately off limits? Kind of weird, but whatever.
He sold at the very beginning of COVID-19 when things were a little slow and down. Now two years later, he makes comments to other people at work that I have too much money. I think he has some small regret of selling at a perceived low point. He vents his anger by telling other people my financial position without my permission. Be careful who you share financials with at work.
Yikes! Huge yikes!! I guess it's the difference between a friendship vs. misery who loved company, but that's awful. That's someone who only sees you as a means to their end & repurposed you once they got out of the market.
I tend to lean hard into being a cheapskate DINK if my lack of financial stress comes up (I have a tendency to forget it's payday.) People I'm actually close to - people who'll go out of their way to help, or will pick up slack for those out sick, for example - I'll share a little more, that I'm partly bold in speaking truth to power because "I could afford to take some months off if I had to." (Infinite months is still measured in months.) It's given me the chance to be a voice for those who can't afford to speak up more than once.
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Slight tangent: this is part of what make Camps and Meetups so freaking awesome. A virtually taboo subject IRL is discussed freely and fluently with plenty of like-minded others. So energizing!
I used to really long for this. I considered going to a showing of the Playing with FIRE doc, although kinda glad I skipped it after reading the book. I still do wish for more real-life community, but increasingly worry about the implicit risk of non-anonymous exposure of even an outline of my financial position. I have found I can generally can only be detailed with people making twice or more my income, since it gives them a chance of saving something like as much.
The only person I've ever met in real life who knew who MMM was, a coworker, was kind of a terrible person - knowing their competitive nature I figured I'd better not sound more successful at it than they were. Turned out later I'd dodged a bullet by lowballing my progress & making myself sound boring.
One of my co-workers had two rentals and we would swap stories of being a landlord. It was mostly venting to each other, but part of it was sharing information to help each person get better. He sold his rentals and verbally told me he doesn't want to hear any of my stories He said, "I'm out of the rental game and I don't need the stress." We spent the last two years talking about this and now it's immediately off limits? Kind of weird, but whatever.
He sold at the very beginning of COVID-19 when things were a little slow and down. Now two years later, he makes comments to other people at work that I have too much money. I think he has some small regret of selling at a perceived low point. He vents his anger by telling other people my financial position without my permission. Be careful who you share financials with at work.
You're going to have to burn this bridge.
"Carl, I understand you have been telling people about my financials. I would like you to stop."
...
Carl asks some questions, maybe a little discussion
...
"Can you promise me you will stop?" Keep pressing until you get a Yes.
This was great life lesson for me: how to deal with people who deflect or change the subject when they don’t want to answer something.
Realizing you could just repeat yourself and stick to the same thing until it was addressed was amazing!
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From a co-worker this morning: "It's not like any of us can contribute the max to our TSPs with what they pay us." I'm just biting my tongue because I'm doing it, plus an IRA and HSA. You'd think that they would have figured it out by now because I always know how much per paycheck it takes to get there.
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From a co-worker this morning: "It's not like any of us can contribute the max to our TSPs with what they pay us." I'm just biting my tongue because I'm doing it, plus an IRA and HSA. You'd think that they would have figured it out by now because I always know how much per paycheck it takes to get there.
Clearly it’s not my department where several of us lecture new people on the joys of maxing out. Shout out to the GS 9 soon to be 11 who is doing so right now, per Erin groceries are expensive.
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From a co-worker this morning: "It's not like any of us can contribute the max to our TSPs with what they pay us." I'm just biting my tongue because I'm doing it, plus an IRA and HSA. You'd think that they would have figured it out by now because I always know how much per paycheck it takes to get there.
Clearly it’s not my department where several of us lecture new people on the joys of maxing out. Shout out to the GS 9 soon to be 11 who is doing so right now, per Erin groceries are expensive.
I have encouraged a few newer engineers "you don't have to max it this year, but start working on a plan to get there in the next three." Two of them really had never considered anything except whatever the auto-enroll percentage is, and did not even know there was a max. Hopefully they at least worked to get some education on the subject.
I get not being "able" to max it when you are new and making $50k or something and have never considered what retirement is (TDF of 2065 is now in our plan!!! Yikes for the newbies.)
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I have convinced three people in my life to contribute or max out their 401(k)s when they were otherwise not contributing at all. One retired early. (YAY!) One became a meth addict and cashed it all out years ago. And the third just informed me she cashed hers out to pay off credit cards.
One out of three ain't bad, I guess???
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From a co-worker this morning: "It's not like any of us can contribute the max to our TSPs with what they pay us." I'm just biting my tongue because I'm doing it, plus an IRA and HSA. You'd think that they would have figured it out by now because I always know how much per paycheck it takes to get there.
Clearly it’s not my department where several of us lecture new people on the joys of maxing out. Shout out to the GS 9 soon to be 11 who is doing so right now, per Erin groceries are expensive.
I have encouraged a few newer engineers "you don't have to max it this year, but start working on a plan to get there in the next three." Two of them really had never considered anything except whatever the auto-enroll percentage is, and did not even know there was a max. Hopefully they at least worked to get some education on the subject.
I get not being "able" to max it when you are new and making $50k or something and have never considered what retirement is (TDF of 2065 is now in our plan!!! Yikes for the newbies.)
I tell them add a percent every pay raise. After you get to 10% add $20 or $50. Which in the early years of the GS scale end up being 2* a year.
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I tell them add a percent every pay raise. After you get to 10% add $20 or $50. Which in the early years of the GS scale end up being 2* a year.
I tell people to add 90% of their raise to investments for at least the first 5 years after that raise. That way, they get more in their pocket to spend, they are maximizing time their investments work for them, and they may discover they didn't need the other 90% to live on and have a good life.
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What about some derivative of last month's amount invested? That is easy to track and motivates savings and earnings growth.
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I have convinced three people in my life to contribute or max out their 401(k)s when they were otherwise not contributing at all. One retired early. (YAY!) One became a meth addict and cashed it all out years ago. And the third just informed me she cashed hers out to pay off credit cards.
One out of three ain't bad, I guess???
It's infinitely better than zero.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't hold its head under for too long without having a conversation about glue.
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I have convinced three people in my life to contribute or max out their 401(k)s when they were otherwise not contributing at all. One retired early. (YAY!) One became a meth addict and cashed it all out years ago. And the third just informed me she cashed hers out to pay off credit cards.
One out of three ain't bad, I guess???
I convinced a friend's son who just started his first job after getting a PhD to max out his 401k. All I had to do is show him a compounding curve. I guess he deserved that PhD!
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I have convinced three people in my life to contribute or max out their 401(k)s when they were otherwise not contributing at all. One retired early. (YAY!) One became a meth addict and cashed it all out years ago. And the third just informed me she cashed hers out to pay off credit cards.
One out of three ain't bad, I guess???
I convinced a friend's son who just started his first job after getting a PhD to max out his 401k. All I had to do is show him a compounding curve. I guess he deserved that PhD!
This man will love you in 20 years! Good job, @snic
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I have convinced three people in my life to contribute or max out their 401(k)s when they were otherwise not contributing at all. One retired early. (YAY!) One became a meth addict and cashed it all out years ago. And the third just informed me she cashed hers out to pay off credit cards.
One out of three ain't bad, I guess???
I convinced a friend's son who just started his first job after getting a PhD to max out his 401k. All I had to do is show him a compounding curve. I guess he deserved that PhD!
My son started a new job at the beginning of the year but cannot join the 401K for a couple of months. He asked me for input on the fund selections when he's in town next month. Looks like I'll print out a compounding curve before he comes home.
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I have convinced three people in my life to contribute or max out their 401(k)s when they were otherwise not contributing at all. One retired early. (YAY!) One became a meth addict and cashed it all out years ago. And the third just informed me she cashed hers out to pay off credit cards.
One out of three ain't bad, I guess???
I convinced a friend's son who just started his first job after getting a PhD to max out his 401k. All I had to do is show him a compounding curve. I guess he deserved that PhD!
My son started a new job at the beginning of the year but cannot join the 401K for a couple of months. He asked me for input on the fund selections when he's in town next month. Looks like I'll print out a compounding curve before he comes home.
Back in the bad old days, I couldn’t join the TSP for close to a year. Hire date 7/17/00, first day I could contribute 7/1/01 and I was limited to 10% of my salary.
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From a co-worker this morning: "It's not like any of us can contribute the max to our TSPs with what they pay us." I'm just biting my tongue because I'm doing it, plus an IRA and HSA. You'd think that they would have figured it out by now because I always know how much per paycheck it takes to get there.
Clearly it’s not my department where several of us lecture new people on the joys of maxing out. Shout out to the GS 9 soon to be 11 who is doing so right now, per Erin groceries are expensive.
I have encouraged a few newer engineers "you don't have to max it this year, but start working on a plan to get there in the next three." Two of them really had never considered anything except whatever the auto-enroll percentage is, and did not even know there was a max. Hopefully they at least worked to get some education on the subject.
I get not being "able" to max it when you are new and making $50k or something and have never considered what retirement is (TDF of 2065 is now in our plan!!! Yikes for the newbies.)
I tell them add a percent every pay raise. After you get to 10% add $20 or $50. Which in the early years of the GS scale end up being 2* a year.
My company auto enrolled you in the +1% a year program. I didn't realize it and was manually increasing it 1% myself each year. It was a very nice surprise when I accidently maxed out my 401k. That was about the time I started searching for what next and found MMM.
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@glacio09 That is one for the 'Mustachian People Problems' thread :)
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A coworker bought a brand new truck. Needed a lift for it. The lift cost $17,000. Yes, $17,000. Truck no longer fits in his garage. Traded in a 2017 Suburban for this truck.
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A coworker bought a brand new truck. Needed a lift for it. The lift cost $17,000. Yes, $17,000. Truck no longer fits in his garage. Traded in a 2017 Suburban for this truck.
I'm rather unfamiliar with much of the car world, let alone the US specific rather large car world. Did you mean something to lift his car? What would be the actual use for that? Is het a professional car mechanic, or is this just a very expensive hobby> And how would he lift the truck if it doesn;t even fit in his garage in any case...?
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A coworker bought a brand new truck. Needed a lift for it. The lift cost $17,000. Yes, $17,000. Truck no longer fits in his garage. Traded in a 2017 Suburban for this truck.
I'm rather unfamiliar with much of the car world, let alone the US specific rather large car world. Did you mean something to lift his car? What would be the actual use for that? Is het a professional car mechanic, or is this just a very expensive hobby> And how would he lift the truck if it doesn;t even fit in his garage in any case...?
I suspect he means doing this to the truck. Never understood WHY anyone would do it...
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A coworker bought a brand new truck. Needed a lift for it. The lift cost $17,000. Yes, $17,000. Truck no longer fits in his garage. Traded in a 2017 Suburban for this truck.
"Needed"
LOL!
To assuage their crippling social anxiety that a "normal" ridiculously oversized clown truck wasn't big and impractical enough?
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A coworker bought a brand new truck. Needed a lift for it. The lift cost $17,000. Yes, $17,000. Truck no longer fits in his garage. Traded in a 2017 Suburban for this truck.
I'm rather unfamiliar with much of the car world, let alone the US specific rather large car world. Did you mean something to lift his car? What would be the actual use for that? Is het a professional car mechanic, or is this just a very expensive hobby> And how would he lift the truck if it doesn;t even fit in his garage in any case...?
I suspect he means doing this to the truck. Never understood WHY anyone would do it...
Definitely means he did this to his truck. Did the $17k include the pair of white Oakleys or did he have to buy those separately?
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A coworker bought a brand new truck. Needed a lift for it. The lift cost $17,000. Yes, $17,000. Truck no longer fits in his garage. Traded in a 2017 Suburban for this truck.
I'm rather unfamiliar with much of the car world, let alone the US specific rather large car world. Did you mean something to lift his car? What would be the actual use for that? Is het a professional car mechanic, or is this just a very expensive hobby> And how would he lift the truck if it doesn;t even fit in his garage in any case...?
I suspect he means doing this to the truck. Never understood WHY anyone would do it...
Compensating for something.
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The lift in that photo would cost a lot more than $17,000…
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A coworker bought a brand new truck. Needed a lift for it. The lift cost $17,000. Yes, $17,000. Truck no longer fits in his garage. Traded in a 2017 Suburban for this truck.
I'm rather unfamiliar with much of the car world, let alone the US specific rather large car world. Did you mean something to lift his car? What would be the actual use for that? Is het a professional car mechanic, or is this just a very expensive hobby> And how would he lift the truck if it doesn;t even fit in his garage in any case...?
I suspect he means doing this to the truck. Never understood WHY anyone would do it...
Right. So not a lift to work on his car, but an increased distance from the road to the seat. More modest observations of a similar nature can be made on this side of the large fish pond.
DSM V universally classifies these as symptoms of small willy syndrom I believe.
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A coworker bought a brand new truck. Needed a lift for it. The lift cost $17,000. Yes, $17,000. Truck no longer fits in his garage. Traded in a 2017 Suburban for this truck.
I'm rather unfamiliar with much of the car world, let alone the US specific rather large car world. Did you mean something to lift his car? What would be the actual use for that? Is het a professional car mechanic, or is this just a very expensive hobby> And how would he lift the truck if it doesn;t even fit in his garage in any case...?
I suspect he means doing this to the truck. Never understood WHY anyone would do it...
Do you know some women have inverted nipples?
That guy probably has an inverted P...laything.
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A coworker bought a brand new truck. Needed a lift for it. The lift cost $17,000. Yes, $17,000. Truck no longer fits in his garage. Traded in a 2017 Suburban for this truck.
I'm rather unfamiliar with much of the car world, let alone the US specific rather large car world. Did you mean something to lift his car? What would be the actual use for that? Is het a professional car mechanic, or is this just a very expensive hobby> And how would he lift the truck if it doesn;t even fit in his garage in any case...?
I suspect he means doing this to the truck. Never understood WHY anyone would do it...
Right. So not a lift to work on his car, but an increased distance from the road to the seat. More modest observations of a similar nature can be made on this side of the large fish pond.
DSM V universally classifies these as symptoms of small willy syndrom I believe.
No way the parts cost $17k. This guy is unable to wrench on his own truck and paid out the ass for someone else to do it
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A coworker bought a brand new truck. Needed a lift for it. The lift cost $17,000. Yes, $17,000. Truck no longer fits in his garage. Traded in a 2017 Suburban for this truck.
I'm rather unfamiliar with much of the car world, let alone the US specific rather large car world. Did you mean something to lift his car? What would be the actual use for that? Is het a professional car mechanic, or is this just a very expensive hobby> And how would he lift the truck if it doesn;t even fit in his garage in any case...?
I suspect he means doing this to the truck. Never understood WHY anyone would do it...
Right. So not a lift to work on his car, but an increased distance from the road to the seat. More modest observations of a similar nature can be made on this side of the large fish pond.
DSM V universally classifies these as symptoms of small willy syndrom I believe.
No way the parts cost $17k. This guy is unable to wrench on his own truck and paid out the ass for someone else to do it
Yeah, apparently there's an off road community, mostly in the US. They buy fancy 4WDs - like Jeep Gladiators and Ford Raptors - and modify them to be even more off-road capable. A small fraction of these people take their modified vehicles out to off road parks and trails where they risk destroying their incredibly expensive rigs by trying to drive them over obstacles that would be difficult on a mountain bike.
There's a guy in Vancouver (the Canadian one) who bought a Gladiator and replaced the V6 engine with a V8 hemi out of a full size dodge ram. ?!? He uses the vehicle for his youtube channel where he drives far into the BC back country on old logging and mining roads. I've watched a couple of his videos & I think the routes would be good for backpacking or horse back camping, instead of driving a big 4x4...
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I mostly WFH but make occasional trips to the office in Vancouver. I work with several other co workers my age (roughly 25-35). It snowed roughly 5cm overnight in Vancouver and a couple of my co workers decided to take a taxi to work rather than walk or take the bus becausue it would have thrown off their "vibes' for the day. I just nodded along politely well screaming on the inside.
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I mostly WFH but make occasional trips to the office in Vancouver. I work with several other co workers my age (roughly 25-35). It snowed roughly 5cm overnight in Vancouver and a couple of my co workers decided to take a taxi to work rather than walk or take the bus becausue it would have thrown off their "vibes' for the day. I just nodded along politely well screaming on the inside.
It would make me sad to be around people like that. I would try to walk away before they finished the statement to try and stay blissfully ignorant.
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I mostly WFH but make occasional trips to the office in Vancouver. I work with several other co workers my age (roughly 25-35). It snowed roughly 5cm overnight in Vancouver and a couple of my co workers decided to take a taxi to work rather than walk or take the bus becausue it would have thrown off their "vibes' for the day. I just nodded along politely well screaming on the inside.
It would make me sad to be around people like that. I would try to walk away before they finished the statement to try and stay blissfully ignorant.
I get it, but if you can't safely drive in the snow then I don't want you driving, and if you're nervous to take public transit then a taxi is still better than adding another idiot to the roads.
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I mostly WFH but make occasional trips to the office in Vancouver. I work with several other co workers my age (roughly 25-35). It snowed roughly 5cm overnight in Vancouver and a couple of my co workers decided to take a taxi to work rather than walk or take the bus becausue it would have thrown off their "vibes' for the day. I just nodded along politely well screaming on the inside.
Hold on a minute, driving themselves to work in snow is likely to cause them mental/emotional trauma for the rest of the work day? Holy fragile psyche, batman!
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I mostly WFH but make occasional trips to the office in Vancouver. I work with several other co workers my age (roughly 25-35). It snowed roughly 5cm overnight in Vancouver and a couple of my co workers decided to take a taxi to work rather than walk or take the bus becausue it would have thrown off their "vibes' for the day. I just nodded along politely well screaming on the inside.
Hold on a minute, driving themselves to work in snow is likely to cause them mental/emotional trauma for the rest of the work day? Holy fragile psyche, batman!
The post says taxi rather than walk or bus, not drive.
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I mostly WFH but make occasional trips to the office in Vancouver. I work with several other co workers my age (roughly 25-35). It snowed roughly 5cm overnight in Vancouver and a couple of my co workers decided to take a taxi to work rather than walk or take the bus becausue it would have thrown off their "vibes' for the day. I just nodded along politely well screaming on the inside.
On snowy days, if the entire city hasn't shut down in a paroxysm of sphincter contractions, I do prefer to take the bus. With a professional driver and far more mass than the usual privately owned idiot-mobile, my chances of survival are far better. I found this out first-hand when an idiot in a pickup truck tried to drive up the shoulder of the road and cut in front of the bus. There was barely a jolt on the bus but pieces of the truck went flying.
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On snowy days, if the entire city hasn't shut down in a paroxysm of sphincter contractions, I do prefer to take the bus.
Agreed. The bus is just about the only thing that safely makes it through the snow in Philly when everyone else is plowing into parked cars. Bus is *the* choice.
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And I would think that the bus routes coincide with those that are a priority to plow and the bus drives get some information about the actual conditions.
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I mostly WFH but make occasional trips to the office in Vancouver. I work with several other co workers my age (roughly 25-35). It snowed roughly 5cm overnight in Vancouver and a couple of my co workers decided to take a taxi to work rather than walk or take the bus becausue it would have thrown off their "vibes' for the day. I just nodded along politely well screaming on the inside.
Hold on a minute, driving themselves to work in snow is likely to cause them mental/emotional trauma for the rest of the work day? Holy fragile psyche, batman!
In fairness, Vancouver is easily the worst city to drive in when it snows in all of Canada. It’s pretty rare for snow to fall, much less accumulate on the ground so almost nobody has snow tires or good experience driving in the snow. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were 1000 vehicles involved in collisions per inch of snow accumulated on the roads in that city. But yeah, sounds like they chose a taxi over walking/transit, which I can’t really understand unless they didn’t have appropriate footwear or something.
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I mostly WFH but make occasional trips to the office in Vancouver. I work with several other co workers my age (roughly 25-35). It snowed roughly 5cm overnight in Vancouver and a couple of my co workers decided to take a taxi to work rather than walk or take the bus becausue it would have thrown off their "vibes' for the day. I just nodded along politely well screaming on the inside.
Hold on a minute, driving themselves to work in snow is likely to cause them mental/emotional trauma for the rest of the work day? Holy fragile psyche, batman!
In fairness, Vancouver is easily the worst city to drive in when it snows in all of Canada. It’s pretty rare for snow to fall, much less accumulate on the ground so almost nobody has snow tires or good experience driving in the snow. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were 1000 vehicles involved in collisions per inch of snow accumulated on the roads in that city. But yeah, sounds like they chose a taxi over walking/transit, which I can’t really understand unless they didn’t have appropriate footwear or something.
When I originally posted this article I almost wrote "It snowed in Vancouver overnight 5cm (which in Vancouver might as well be 500cm). I used to live in Victoria and I am still utterly floored at how consistently unprepared Vancouver is to deal with snow, yet it happens on an annual basis.
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I mostly WFH but make occasional trips to the office in Vancouver. I work with several other co workers my age (roughly 25-35). It snowed roughly 5cm overnight in Vancouver and a couple of my co workers decided to take a taxi to work rather than walk or take the bus becausue it would have thrown off their "vibes' for the day. I just nodded along politely well screaming on the inside.
It would make me sad to be around people like that. I would try to walk away before they finished the statement to try and stay blissfully ignorant.
Is this an indictment of their driving skills or millennial lingo? Ha sounds like a great WFH day to me.
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I mostly WFH but make occasional trips to the office in Vancouver. I work with several other co workers my age (roughly 25-35). It snowed roughly 5cm overnight in Vancouver and a couple of my co workers decided to take a taxi to work rather than walk or take the bus becausue it would have thrown off their "vibes' for the day. I just nodded along politely well screaming on the inside.
Hold on a minute, driving themselves to work in snow is likely to cause them mental/emotional trauma for the rest of the work day? Holy fragile psyche, batman!
The post says taxi rather than walk or bus, not drive.
Ooops, you're right. But my reaction stands: because it will "throw off their vibe for the day"? Seriously!?
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I mostly WFH but make occasional trips to the office in Vancouver. I work with several other co workers my age (roughly 25-35). It snowed roughly 5cm overnight in Vancouver and a couple of my co workers decided to take a taxi to work rather than walk or take the bus becausue it would have thrown off their "vibes' for the day. I just nodded along politely well screaming on the inside.
Hold on a minute, driving themselves to work in snow is likely to cause them mental/emotional trauma for the rest of the work day? Holy fragile psyche, batman!
In fairness, Vancouver is easily the worst city to drive in when it snows in all of Canada. It’s pretty rare for snow to fall, much less accumulate on the ground so almost nobody has snow tires or good experience driving in the snow. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were 1000 vehicles involved in collisions per inch of snow accumulated on the roads in that city. But yeah, sounds like they chose a taxi over walking/transit, which I can’t really understand unless they didn’t have appropriate footwear or something.
I love Vancouver because it's so incredibly pedestrian-friendly. (The donair and Nanaimo bar quality is also good.)
The last couple times I was there, I didn't feel the need to rent a car or take a taxi or ride-share even once. Not even with a bunch of suitcases. Everything I needed and wanted was readily available by public transit. It's been that way since the investments and construction prior to Expo 86. The thing I appreciate most is the effort made to move people to and from the airport, the downtown area, and other high-demand areas like the university area, the waterfront, the stadium, and other places people want to go. I haven't gone into the suburban part lately but I recall that there was good bus service and even bike rental options.
I see why some of the suburban dwellers might own a car for convenience, and there might be some corner cases where individuals do truly need and benefit from a personal vehicle, yet I don't see why anyone would drive at all in Vancouver during bad weather, if they had a choice.
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On snowy days, if the entire city hasn't shut down in a paroxysm of sphincter contractions, I do prefer to take the bus.
Agreed. The bus is just about the only thing that safely makes it through the snow in Philly when everyone else is plowing into parked cars. Bus is *the* choice.
No Tram is. There are videos out there from tram driver not reacting more than ringing the bell if an idiot drives in front of them and then gets shoved away like a kitten in front of the door.
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On snowy days, if the entire city hasn't shut down in a paroxysm of sphincter contractions, I do prefer to take the bus.
Agreed. The bus is just about the only thing that safely makes it through the snow in Philly when everyone else is plowing into parked cars. Bus is *the* choice.
No Tram is. There are videos out there from tram driver not reacting more than ringing the bell if an idiot drives in front of them and then gets shoved away like a kitten in front of the door.
Bus. Tram. However you dice it, different countries in snow seem to all have good public transportation alternatives to sliding around in a car.
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I mostly WFH but make occasional trips to the office in Vancouver. I work with several other co workers my age (roughly 25-35). It snowed roughly 5cm overnight in Vancouver and a couple of my co workers decided to take a taxi to work rather than walk or take the bus becausue it would have thrown off their "vibes' for the day. I just nodded along politely well screaming on the inside.
Hold on a minute, driving themselves to work in snow is likely to cause them mental/emotional trauma for the rest of the work day? Holy fragile psyche, batman!
In fairness, Vancouver is easily the worst city to drive in when it snows in all of Canada. It’s pretty rare for snow to fall, much less accumulate on the ground so almost nobody has snow tires or good experience driving in the snow. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were 1000 vehicles involved in collisions per inch of snow accumulated on the roads in that city. But yeah, sounds like they chose a taxi over walking/transit, which I can’t really understand unless they didn’t have appropriate footwear or something.
How can you go skiing in the mountains without snow tires???
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I got in a discussion with a coworker today about FU money. We were testing something out, I made a minor mistake, and CW jokingly said "you're fired!" to which jokingly I said "ok!" CW expressed how "it sure would be nice" to have FU money, and kinda-sorta asked how it's possible. I said "well, do you see what kind of car the CEO and I drive?" (CEO drives a 2003 Honda Civic, I drive a '97 Geo Prizm)
Cue the "oh, but you don't wanna be left on the side of the road" comments, to which I responded that such a situation had happened to me precisely once in twenty years. Coworker drives a late model quad cab pickup truck for her 45-minute commute. As does her spouse. They have one kid left at home, and their family's preferred extracurricular/hobby is racing cars. Which, of course, comes with the need to buy a trailer for the car and to sleep in when they're out of town. Coworker is probably 10 years older than me.
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Ouch. And I always considered model trains as an expensive hobby.
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Since I'm self-employed, my only co-workers now are the people I serve with in the National Guard. This weekend I was working with a guy to update some of my personnel records. The next morning when I came in, he asked if I drove a Black Widow lifted truck that he knew belonged to somebody in the unit. Apparently, this is an optional package for new vehicles that is brand agnostic and only adds about $20,000 to the MSRP - what a deal!
I told him it belonged to one of my colleagues (who is already FIRE and can easily afford it due) and then laughed that I would never make such a ridiculous purchase. My colleague had previously mentioned the sticker price was about $75,000 but he got a deal due to a police discount and it was only $70,000 or so.
Meanwhile my 18-year-old minivan that cost $4,500 a few years ago is still working fine - and probably still worth about the same amount I paid for it even with the additional years and miles since I bought it.
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75K! That 5 years of non-spendypants living over here! The only day you would see me driving this is when I won it at a lottery (not that I play or they ever have such high prices) and I am driving it to sell!
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I got in a discussion with a coworker today about FU money. We were testing something out, I made a minor mistake, and CW jokingly said "you're fired!" to which jokingly I said "ok!" CW expressed how "it sure would be nice" to have FU money, and kinda-sorta asked how it's possible. I said "well, do you see what kind of car the CEO and I drive?" (CEO drives a 2003 Honda Civic, I drive a '97 Geo Prizm)
Cue the "oh, but you don't wanna be left on the side of the road" comments, to which I responded that such a situation had happened to me precisely once in twenty years. Coworker drives a late model quad cab pickup truck for her 45-minute commute. As does her spouse. They have one kid left at home, and their family's preferred extracurricular/hobby is racing cars. Which, of course, comes with the need to buy a trailer for the car and to sleep in when they're out of town. Coworker is probably 10 years older than me.
So they've got one truck to pull the race car on a trailer, and a second truck to pull the trailer they sleep in?
Speaking of getting left on the side of the road, the MAF in my vehicle died yesterday and I had to get it towed to the garage because it would stall whenever I took my foot off the gas. Coincidentally, this is the first time in 19 years with that vehicle that it wouldn't run.
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This might not work for all vehicles, but I recall that removing the MAF sensor connector tells the system to switch to a "safe mode" and run on average settings without reading MAF values. The performance and gas mileage will suffer, and the car won't pass any emission tests, but at least it will remain drivable, so one can get home or go straight to the garage.
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This might not work for all vehicles, but I recall that removing the MAF sensor connector tells the system to switch to a "safe mode" and run on average settings without reading MAF values. The performance and gas mileage will suffer, and the car won't pass any emission tests, but at least it will remain drivable, so one can get home or go straight to the garage.
Heh, that reminds me of a time several years ago, when after replacing a power steering hose, I neglected to reconnect the vacuum line from the intake manifold to the MAP sensor. Naturally, the ECU assumed there was a ton of air flowing into the manifold, and was positively dumping fuel into the intake. Once I figured it out and reconnected the vacuum line, I took it for a test drive, and promptly smoked up a good section of the neighborhood with all the unburned hydrocarbons that had been sitting in my exhaust!
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I got in a discussion with a coworker today about FU money. We were testing something out, I made a minor mistake, and CW jokingly said "you're fired!" to which jokingly I said "ok!" CW expressed how "it sure would be nice" to have FU money, and kinda-sorta asked how it's possible. I said "well, do you see what kind of car the CEO and I drive?" (CEO drives a 2003 Honda Civic, I drive a '97 Geo Prizm)
Cue the "oh, but you don't wanna be left on the side of the road" comments, to which I responded that such a situation had happened to me precisely once in twenty years. Coworker drives a late model quad cab pickup truck for her 45-minute commute. As does her spouse. They have one kid left at home, and their family's preferred extracurricular/hobby is racing cars. Which, of course, comes with the need to buy a trailer for the car and to sleep in when they're out of town. Coworker is probably 10 years older than me.
Holy smokes. This makes mountain bikes and gym memberships sound so tame!
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This might not work for all vehicles, but I recall that removing the MAF sensor connector tells the system to switch to a "safe mode" and run on average settings without reading MAF values. The performance and gas mileage will suffer, and the car won't pass any emission tests, but at least it will remain drivable, so one can get home or go straight to the garage.
Just curious, how would you know it was a failed MAF so you could disconnect it? I had the same thing happen in a different vehicle about 25 years ago, so I suspected it was the MAF, but I wasn't sure...
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I got in a discussion with a coworker today about FU money. We were testing something out, I made a minor mistake, and CW jokingly said "you're fired!" to which jokingly I said "ok!" CW expressed how "it sure would be nice" to have FU money, and kinda-sorta asked how it's possible. I said "well, do you see what kind of car the CEO and I drive?" (CEO drives a 2003 Honda Civic, I drive a '97 Geo Prizm)
Cue the "oh, but you don't wanna be left on the side of the road" comments, to which I responded that such a situation had happened to me precisely once in twenty years. Coworker drives a late model quad cab pickup truck for her 45-minute commute. As does her spouse. They have one kid left at home, and their family's preferred extracurricular/hobby is racing cars. Which, of course, comes with the need to buy a trailer for the car and to sleep in when they're out of town. Coworker is probably 10 years older than me.
Holy smokes. This makes mountain bikes and gym memberships sound so tame!
The road to financial hell is paved with insane car payments.
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Once again got into an argument at work today about the difference between taxes withheld and tax rate. Our bonuses get taxed like regular income, as in my $25k bonus last year along with my regular paycheck got taxed as if I made $850k for the year at 52% total between Feds, State (CA) and FICA. But I’m also getting money back after filing my return because of this.
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I got in a discussion with a coworker today about FU money. We were testing something out, I made a minor mistake, and CW jokingly said "you're fired!" to which jokingly I said "ok!" CW expressed how "it sure would be nice" to have FU money, and kinda-sorta asked how it's possible. I said "well, do you see what kind of car the CEO and I drive?" (CEO drives a 2003 Honda Civic, I drive a '97 Geo Prizm)
Cue the "oh, but you don't wanna be left on the side of the road" comments, to which I responded that such a situation had happened to me precisely once in twenty years. Coworker drives a late model quad cab pickup truck for her 45-minute commute. As does her spouse. They have one kid left at home, and their family's preferred extracurricular/hobby is racing cars. Which, of course, comes with the need to buy a trailer for the car and to sleep in when they're out of town. Coworker is probably 10 years older than me.
Holy smokes. This makes mountain bikes and gym memberships sound so tame!
The road to financial hell is paved with insane car payments.
It certainly is for this guy
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4D2psZ0GrrQ&t=11s
(long video, but worth the watch, just keeps getting more insane)
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Once again got into an argument at work today about the difference between taxes withheld and tax rate. Our bonuses get taxed like regular income, as in my $25k bonus last year along with my regular paycheck got taxed as if I made $850k for the year at 52% total between Feds, State (CA) and FICA. But I’m also getting money back after filing my return because of this.
There are two methods for bonuses as I understand it. A flat 22% and a supplemental wage method. Yours appears to be the supplemental method. My company uses the flat 22% method. This is for bonuses under a million bucks. Anyone making a bonus of over that should go read the docs themselves...
Either one can lead to the argument you had though.
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I got in a discussion with a coworker today about FU money. We were testing something out, I made a minor mistake, and CW jokingly said "you're fired!" to which jokingly I said "ok!" CW expressed how "it sure would be nice" to have FU money, and kinda-sorta asked how it's possible. I said "well, do you see what kind of car the CEO and I drive?" (CEO drives a 2003 Honda Civic, I drive a '97 Geo Prizm)
Cue the "oh, but you don't wanna be left on the side of the road" comments, to which I responded that such a situation had happened to me precisely once in twenty years. Coworker drives a late model quad cab pickup truck for her 45-minute commute. As does her spouse. They have one kid left at home, and their family's preferred extracurricular/hobby is racing cars. Which, of course, comes with the need to buy a trailer for the car and to sleep in when they're out of town. Coworker is probably 10 years older than me.
Holy smokes. This makes mountain bikes and gym memberships sound so tame!
The road to financial hell is paved with insane car payments.
This car payment is insane but not the amount. https://hip-hopvibe.com/news/woman-buys-old-car-for-289-a-month-for-84-years/ (https://hip-hopvibe.com/news/woman-buys-old-car-for-289-a-month-for-84-years/)
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84 month not years. Quality Journalism!
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Once again got into an argument at work today about the difference between taxes withheld and tax rate. Our bonuses get taxed like regular income, as in my $25k bonus last year along with my regular paycheck got taxed as if I made $850k for the year at 52% total between Feds, State (CA) and FICA. But I’m also getting money back after filing my return because of this.
There are two methods for bonuses as I understand it. A flat 22% and a supplemental wage method. Yours appears to be the supplemental method. My company uses the flat 22% method. This is for bonuses under a million bucks. Anyone making a bonus of over that should go read the docs themselves...
Either one can lead to the argument you had though.
Are you referring to payroll withholdings? Some systems will withhold at a flat percentage of the bonus, others will treat it as if that was your normal pay amount and you'd have withholdings accordingly. It has no impact on how tax is calculated when you prepare the return. Its treated as income on the tax return, so refund or payment depends entirely on tax less tax payments already made.
But yes, this leads to all sorts of arguments and misunderstandings because people don't understand taxes. If they argue with me (someone who actually knows the answer to this) vs just going, huh, I didn't know that, thanks, then they've told me who they are and I will believe them.
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I got in a discussion with a coworker today about FU money. We were testing something out, I made a minor mistake, and CW jokingly said "you're fired!" to which jokingly I said "ok!" CW expressed how "it sure would be nice" to have FU money, and kinda-sorta asked how it's possible. I said "well, do you see what kind of car the CEO and I drive?" (CEO drives a 2003 Honda Civic, I drive a '97 Geo Prizm)
Cue the "oh, but you don't wanna be left on the side of the road" comments, to which I responded that such a situation had happened to me precisely once in twenty years. Coworker drives a late model quad cab pickup truck for her 45-minute commute. As does her spouse. They have one kid left at home, and their family's preferred extracurricular/hobby is racing cars. Which, of course, comes with the need to buy a trailer for the car and to sleep in when they're out of town. Coworker is probably 10 years older than me.
Holy smokes. This makes mountain bikes and gym memberships sound so tame!
The road to financial hell is paved with insane car payments.
This car payment is insane but not the amount. https://hip-hopvibe.com/news/woman-buys-old-car-for-289-a-month-for-84-years/ (https://hip-hopvibe.com/news/woman-buys-old-car-for-289-a-month-for-84-years/)
For a car worth barely over a grand, that payment amount is truly insane. She definitely needs to bring that back. A car over 20 years old shouldn’t be able to be financed at all in my opinion, but definitely shouldn’t be allowed to be financed over more than say 18 months. I hope this wasn’t an outright con on the part of the dealer, and was a mistake between the dealer and finance company mixup between a 7 month term and a 7 year term. 7 months and she’d pay about $2k for that car which is about fair
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I tried to explain refundable tax credits this week. It didn't go well.
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Once again got into an argument at work today about the difference between taxes withheld and tax rate. Our bonuses get taxed like regular income, as in my $25k bonus last year along with my regular paycheck got taxed as if I made $850k for the year at 52% total between Feds, State (CA) and FICA. But I’m also getting money back after filing my return because of this.
There are two methods for bonuses as I understand it. A flat 22% and a supplemental wage method. Yours appears to be the supplemental method. My company uses the flat 22% method. This is for bonuses under a million bucks. Anyone making a bonus of over that should go read the docs themselves...
Either one can lead to the argument you had though.
Are you referring to payroll withholdings? Some systems will withhold at a flat percentage of the bonus, others will treat it as if that was your normal pay amount and you'd have withholdings accordingly. It has no impact on how tax is calculated when you prepare the return. Its treated as income on the tax return, so refund or payment depends entirely on tax less tax payments already made.
But yes, this leads to all sorts of arguments and misunderstandings because people don't understand taxes. If they argue with me (someone who actually knows the answer to this) vs just going, huh, I didn't know that, thanks, then they've told me who they are and I will believe them.
yeah, withholding, duh (duh to me not you...). I was way too loose with my typing. Should have inserted the term withholding...which of course is almost the exact origin of the arguments and misunderstanding!
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I’m going to sit down with my financial advisor tomorrow now that I’m actually retired and see if I have to get a “retirement job”. Federal retiring employee.
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I hope your advisor is a fee-only fiduciary.
You can DIY pretty damn easily: https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/
Feel free to post any questions.
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I hope your advisor is a fee-only fiduciary.
You can DIY pretty damn easily: https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/
Feel free to post any questions.
Pretty sure that was what was overheard…
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I hope your advisor is a fee-only fiduciary.
You can DIY pretty damn easily: https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/
Feel free to post any questions.
Pretty sure that was what was overheard…
It was overheard, well actually I was in the conversation but I wasn’t the one retiring. OTOH, as a single person I do pay a fee only FA to check myself. I retire in 2.5 years. We’re are starting to talk post retirement finances now.
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DH is a high school teacher at an international school. He overheard one student tell another that his parents give him 40,000 rmb (USD$5800) a month if he attends school.
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DH is a high school teacher at an international school. He overheard one student tell another that his parents give him 40,000 rmb (USD$5800) a month if he attends school.
That's average income there, right?
Not bad for simple attendance.
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DH is a high school teacher at an international school. He overheard one student tell another that his parents give him 40,000 rmb (USD$5800) a month if he attends school.
That's average income there, right?
Not bad for simple attendance.
A quick Google search tells me it’s about FOUR TIMES the average income in Shanghai. 😂
On the afternoon of July 5, 2022, Shanghai Municipal Human Resources and Social Security Bureau announced that the average salary in China – Shanghai in 2021 (hereinafter referred to as “social average salary”) was CNY 11,396 per month
https://www.jscgroups.com/2022-average-salary-in-china-shanghai/ (https://www.jscgroups.com/2022-average-salary-in-china-shanghai/)
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Ah, sorry, I had per year in my head not month. lol.
But the numbers are still fucked up royally. Depending where I look I get (dollar) between 4K and 30K.
But it seems the most hits are around 12K dollar, so it seems I was right. Per year of course.
If that student doesn't want to go to school, I guess I could do for him for that money!
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DH is a high school teacher at an international school. He overheard one student tell another that his parents give him 40,000 rmb (USD$5800) a month if he attends school.
I wonder how much he'll get for going to work when he's older?
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DH is a high school teacher at an international school. He overheard one student tell another that his parents give him 40,000 rmb (USD$5800) a month if he attends school.
I wonder how much he'll get for going to work when he's older?
His family probably owns a multimillion dollar company, so I’m guessing he’ll get paid millions?
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DH is a high school teacher at an international school. He overheard one student tell another that his parents give him 40,000 rmb (USD$5800) a month if he attends school.
I wonder how much he'll get for going to work when he's older?
His family probably owns a multimillion dollar company, so I’m guessing he’ll get paid millions?
As a salary for actually working or a bribe for just showing up?
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DH is a high school teacher at an international school. He overheard one student tell another that his parents give him 40,000 rmb (USD$5800) a month if he attends school.
I wonder how much he'll get for going to work when he's older?
His family probably owns a multimillion dollar company, so I’m guessing he’ll get paid millions?
As a salary for actually working or a bribe for just showing up?
Yes. Same difference 😂 I’m sure there are smart people working for the family and helping to run the company.
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Just curious, how would you know it was a failed MAF so you could disconnect it? I had the same thing happen in a different vehicle about 25 years ago, so I suspected it was the MAF, but I wasn't sure...
well, this is a good question. As for me, I have a diagnostic OBD2 tool in the car. If not, it would be a trial-and-error in the case described above. On the other hand, if the Check Engine light is on, there are not too many sensors the failure of which leads to stalling, so MAF would be under suspicion anyway. BTW, once I had a very tricky failure, which was difficult to diagnose because there was no CE light and the failure manifested itself once in 3-5 days. After reading the forums and replacing a couple of things I managed to pinpoint it - it was an idle valve, which was just slightly clogged with fume/oil deposits and once in a while it was stuck in closed position :)
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<off topic>
We once had a very tricky problem - occasionally, the ABS would suddenly, briefly, trigger, which was scary at highway speeds. There was no definitive way to diagnose, but a faulty yaw sensor was the only thing the shop come up with (and they were correct).
</ot>
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<off topic>
<off topic>
We once had a very tricky problem - occasionally, the ABS would suddenly, briefly, trigger, which was scary at highway speeds. There was no definitive way to diagnose, but a faulty yaw sensor was the only thing the shop come up with (and they were correct).
</ot>
I have MetroMile car insurance and they bill me based in miles driven as obtained via an always installed OBD (that talks to cell towers) so have gotten emails/texts of issues while driving that it detected. Shame the OEM cant do this... (maybe they are but I have not had really driven anything 'modern')
</ot>
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Just curious, how would you know it was a failed MAF so you could disconnect it? I had the same thing happen in a different vehicle about 25 years ago, so I suspected it was the MAF, but I wasn't sure...
well, this is a good question. As for me, I have a diagnostic OBD2 tool in the car. If not, it would be a trial-and-error in the case described above. On the other hand, if the Check Engine light is on, there are not too many sensors the failure of which leads to stalling, so MAF would be under suspicion anyway. BTW, once I had a very tricky failure, which was difficult to diagnose because there was no CE light and the failure manifested itself once in 3-5 days. After reading the forums and replacing a couple of things I managed to pinpoint it - it was an idle valve, which was just slightly clogged with fume/oil deposits and once in a while it was stuck in closed position :)
OBD2 tools really aren't that expensive when you get a Bluetooth one and all the heavy lifting is done by your phone using an app like Torque Pro.
Example: https://www.amazon.com/BAFX-Products-Wireless-Bluetooth-Diagnostic/dp/B005NLQAHS/
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<off topic>
<off topic>
We once had a very tricky problem - occasionally, the ABS would suddenly, briefly, trigger, which was scary at highway speeds. There was no definitive way to diagnose, but a faulty yaw sensor was the only thing the shop come up with (and they were correct).
</ot>
I have MetroMile car insurance and they bill me based in miles driven as obtained via an always installed OBD (that talks to cell towers) so have gotten emails/texts of issues while driving that it detected. Shame the OEM cant do this... (maybe they are but I have not had really driven anything 'modern')
</ot>
We have an OBD2 (bluetooth, similar to the one TomTX linked), but the car never threw a code. It just scared us!
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the sensors and OBD diagnostics are essential, but they cannot tell you a lot of things - for example, a leaking injector, a stuck idle valve, a faulty or wet spark plug, etc. But, the fault search is much easier with them than without them.
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Just curious, how would you know it was a failed MAF so you could disconnect it? I had the same thing happen in a different vehicle about 25 years ago, so I suspected it was the MAF, but I wasn't sure...
well, this is a good question. As for me, I have a diagnostic OBD2 tool in the car. If not, it would be a trial-and-error in the case described above. On the other hand, if the Check Engine light is on, there are not too many sensors the failure of which leads to stalling, so MAF would be under suspicion anyway. BTW, once I had a very tricky failure, which was difficult to diagnose because there was no CE light and the failure manifested itself once in 3-5 days. After reading the forums and replacing a couple of things I managed to pinpoint it - it was an idle valve, which was just slightly clogged with fume/oil deposits and once in a while it was stuck in closed position :)
OBD2 tools really aren't that expensive when you get a Bluetooth one and all the heavy lifting is done by your phone using an app like Torque Pro.
Example: https://www.amazon.com/BAFX-Products-Wireless-Bluetooth-Diagnostic/dp/B005NLQAHS/
FWIW, if you don't mind a very basic user interface, the ones w/ their own screen etc. can be pretty cheap as well: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01G5EA74I/
(For reasons that seem increasingly silly, I've been slow to warm up to BT-connected devices using my phone as the UI. I'm also a "senior" embedded software dev., so ugly old-school LCD menu interfaces like this are comfortingly familiar to me)
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DW was talking to a more senior co-worker of mine at a company event late last year, and he said that "it had been noticed" that I brought leftover food home. We have company lunches every week, and nobody else eats leftovers, so I often brought some home. We typically got 1-2 extra lunches and dinners a week that way.
The conversation also turned to my impending retirement (now retired as of March 3, stayed long enough to collect the 2022 bonus, woot!). He said he didn't really understand how I could manage to afford to retire. I'll have to have a conversation with him some time now that I am out to try to connect those dots. . .
Conversely, my boss I know has been saving, and planning to retire early (10 years younger than me). He is deliberately moving down from a management back to a technical position to set the stage for some consulting work with the company when he retires, much as I expect to do, for a bit of supplemental income and a way to pay ACA health insurance bills. My company is very friendly to this kind of thing, our work is specialized and hard to find experienced people for. As a consultant I may even go to a few company lunches and bring home leftovers. . . :)
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Ahaha, that last sentence was golden!
Congratulations, I guess?
There are people who think something bad when you take leftovers, but I think bad of those who don't think anything about wasting that food - and that is even without considering environmental damage and climate change.
Not that long ago we had a company dinner at an all you can eat place. I certainly eat too much, nearly puked because I wanted to try everything :D But it also meant I didn't need to eat anything the whole next day, so everything has 2 sides.
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Congratulations @Reynold!
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There are people who think something bad when you take leftovers, but I think bad of those who don't think anything about wasting that food - and that is even without considering environmental damage and climate change.
I used to think that people who didn't like leftovers were wasteful and/or spoiled, and I still do for the most part. But I have a youngish child who is thoroughly put off by leftovers. I have no idea where this came from since we have always served and eaten leftovers every week and everyone else in the family is fine with it. I've had some success covertly reheating food in the air fryer, but he can usually tell. We require that he takes a bite before declining and at that point he can have a sandwich for dinner. My frugal self is baffled.
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There are people who think something bad when you take leftovers, but I think bad of those who don't think anything about wasting that food - and that is even without considering environmental damage and climate change.
I used to think that people who didn't like leftovers were wasteful and/or spoiled, and I still do for the most part. But I have a youngish child who is thoroughly put off by leftovers. I have no idea where this came from since we have always served and eaten leftovers every week and everyone else in the family is fine with it. I've had some success covertly reheating food in the air fryer, but he can usually tell. We require that he takes a bite before declining and at that point he can have a sandwich for dinner. My frugal self is baffled.
I have an older son that is similar. Says he doesn't like leftovers but does batch cooking to bring for lunch (like grills 3 chicken breasts and veggies on Sunday night for lunch M-W). So its not a leftover if it was specifically cooked for later...that I don't understand
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There are people who think something bad when you take leftovers, but I think bad of those who don't think anything about wasting that food - and that is even without considering environmental damage and climate change.
I used to think that people who didn't like leftovers were wasteful and/or spoiled, and I still do for the most part. But I have a youngish child who is thoroughly put off by leftovers. I have no idea where this came from since we have always served and eaten leftovers every week and everyone else in the family is fine with it. I've had some success covertly reheating food in the air fryer, but he can usually tell. We require that he takes a bite before declining and at that point he can have a sandwich for dinner. My frugal self is baffled.
I am my family's leftover food vacuum cleaner. I love leftovers. Leftovers also happen to be very frugal. My wife (and many in her family) rarely tolerate leftovers as it does not appeal to their palettes. I have two supertaster (i.e. superpicky) children and 1 child who is willing to eat anything. Oh well. 1 out of 3 aint bad.
JGS
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I am my family's leftover food vacuum cleaner.
Thank you for your service.
I have an older son that is similar. Says he doesn't like leftovers but does batch cooking to bring for lunch (like grills 3 chicken breasts and veggies on Sunday night for lunch M-W). So its not a leftover if it was specifically cooked for later...that I don't understand
I wish there were some forum leftover-haters who could explain this condition, lol.
My son wouldn't eat if there was no alternative, but after some traumatic experiences with my own parents as a kid at mealtime, I will never pick a battle over food.
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Leftovers taste better than fresh cooked, generally. The flavours have a chance to mingle.
I had a roommate once who cooked pretty much the same meal every day, and when I asked her why she didn't just make more for 2 or 3 meals. she replied that she liked her food "fresh." I thought to myself, Yeah, it's fresh cooked, but the food has traveled from who knows where, sat in the store, then sat in the fridge until you cooked it. It's not "fresh."
(When I was a kid, I always had 2 choices for meals - eat it or go hungry, lol. Still not a picky eater.)
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There are people who think something bad when you take leftovers, but I think bad of those who don't think anything about wasting that food - and that is even without considering environmental damage and climate change.
I used to think that people who didn't like leftovers were wasteful and/or spoiled, and I still do for the most part. But I have a youngish child who is thoroughly put off by leftovers. I have no idea where this came from since we have always served and eaten leftovers every week and everyone else in the family is fine with it. I've had some success covertly reheating food in the air fryer, but he can usually tell. We require that he takes a bite before declining and at that point he can have a sandwich for dinner. My frugal self is baffled.
I have an older son that is similar. Says he doesn't like leftovers but does batch cooking to bring for lunch (like grills 3 chicken breasts and veggies on Sunday night for lunch M-W). So its not a leftover if it was specifically cooked for later...that I don't understand
I'm a bit of a leftover-phobe, though I struggle to overcome it. For me, a big part of it is seeing/smelling the cold leftovers from the fridge; something about it just really puts me off. If someone takes it out and reheats it for me, then it's usually fine (and no, this isn't just a tactic to get my wife to do the work!)
I also have an easier time when it's my own cooking, which is weird since I certainly didn't have any problem eating any of the food the first time around. It's not a trust thing, and it's not (always) a preferred-foods thing... I guess maybe it's just "pride of ownership" in my own creations? IDK
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There are people who think something bad when you take leftovers, but I think bad of those who don't think anything about wasting that food - and that is even without considering environmental damage and climate change.
I used to think that people who didn't like leftovers were wasteful and/or spoiled, and I still do for the most part. But I have a youngish child who is thoroughly put off by leftovers. I have no idea where this came from since we have always served and eaten leftovers every week and everyone else in the family is fine with it. I've had some success covertly reheating food in the air fryer, but he can usually tell. We require that he takes a bite before declining and at that point he can have a sandwich for dinner. My frugal self is baffled.
I have an older son that is similar. Says he doesn't like leftovers but does batch cooking to bring for lunch (like grills 3 chicken breasts and veggies on Sunday night for lunch M-W). So its not a leftover if it was specifically cooked for later...that I don't understand
I'm a bit of a leftover-phobe, though I struggle to overcome it. For me, a big part of it is seeing/smelling the cold leftovers from the fridge; something about it just really puts me off. If someone takes it out and reheats it for me, then it's usually fine (and no, this isn't just a tactic to get my wife to do the work!)
I also have an easier time when it's my own cooking, which is weird since I certainly didn't have any problem eating any of the food the first time around. It's not a trust thing, and it's not (always) a preferred-foods thing... I guess maybe it's just "pride of ownership" in my own creations? IDK
For me it's a texture thing. If the leftovers can be reheated without one component getting soggy or dried out and all the parts are hot again, I am fine. I have an aversion to warmed up food (probably some cave-brain about food borne illness) and I also get sick from food easily. My in-laws will soak the dried cod overnight in a bowl on the dryer and I cannot eat that fish casserole at all. My DH and his siblings will chow down and feel a little off the next day.
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There are people who think something bad when you take leftovers, but I think bad of those who don't think anything about wasting that food - and that is even without considering environmental damage and climate change.
I used to think that people who didn't like leftovers were wasteful and/or spoiled, and I still do for the most part. But I have a youngish child who is thoroughly put off by leftovers. I have no idea where this came from since we have always served and eaten leftovers every week and everyone else in the family is fine with it. I've had some success covertly reheating food in the air fryer, but he can usually tell. We require that he takes a bite before declining and at that point he can have a sandwich for dinner. My frugal self is baffled.
I have an older son that is similar. Says he doesn't like leftovers but does batch cooking to bring for lunch (like grills 3 chicken breasts and veggies on Sunday night for lunch M-W). So its not a leftover if it was specifically cooked for later...that I don't understand
I'm a bit of a leftover-phobe, though I struggle to overcome it. For me, a big part of it is seeing/smelling the cold leftovers from the fridge; something about it just really puts me off. If someone takes it out and reheats it for me, then it's usually fine (and no, this isn't just a tactic to get my wife to do the work!)
I also have an easier time when it's my own cooking, which is weird since I certainly didn't have any problem eating any of the food the first time around. It's not a trust thing, and it's not (always) a preferred-foods thing... I guess maybe it's just "pride of ownership" in my own creations? IDK
For me it's a texture thing. If the leftovers can be reheated without one component getting soggy or dried out and all the parts are hot again, I am fine. I have an aversion to warmed up food (probably some cave-brain about food borne illness) and I also get sick from food easily. My in-laws will soak the dried cod overnight in a bowl on the dryer and I cannot eat that fish casserole at all. My DH and his siblings will chow down and feel a little off the next day.
Well, I can't say that I like leftovers - most stuff does not taste better if it's older - and I am also a sort of supertaster for bitter stuff (hence my aversion to lots of vegetables. Some are ok after thouroughly cooked, which puts others off (see above), but a few things make my stomach revolt just smelling).
But I will never understand those who refuse everything.
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I will eat leftovers, but I know myself well enough to know that I really need to pack them in individual serving containers. For some reason, I don't love serving portions out of a cold dish, putting the rest back in the fridge, and then warming up my own serving. I think it goes back to my mom's...questionable...food storage practices.
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I will eat leftovers, but I know myself well enough to know that I really need to pack them in individual serving containers. For some reason, I don't love serving portions out of a cold dish, putting the rest back in the fridge, and then warming up my own serving. I think it goes back to my mom's...questionable...food storage practices.
Yeah, I think this is part of it for me as well. Scooping out cold, partially congealed glop... *shudder*
And my mom used to forget things in the back of the fridge all the time (as do I), so I'm sure there's some remembered "trauma" there lol
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There are people who think something bad when you take leftovers, but I think bad of those who don't think anything about wasting that food - and that is even without considering environmental damage and climate change.
I used to think that people who didn't like leftovers were wasteful and/or spoiled, and I still do for the most part. But I have a youngish child who is thoroughly put off by leftovers. I have no idea where this came from since we have always served and eaten leftovers every week and everyone else in the family is fine with it. I've had some success covertly reheating food in the air fryer, but he can usually tell. We require that he takes a bite before declining and at that point he can have a sandwich for dinner. My frugal self is baffled.
I have an older son that is similar. Says he doesn't like leftovers but does batch cooking to bring for lunch (like grills 3 chicken breasts and veggies on Sunday night for lunch M-W). So its not a leftover if it was specifically cooked for later...that I don't understand
I'm a bit of a leftover-phobe, though I struggle to overcome it. For me, a big part of it is seeing/smelling the cold leftovers from the fridge; something about it just really puts me off. If someone takes it out and reheats it for me, then it's usually fine (and no, this isn't just a tactic to get my wife to do the work!)
I also have an easier time when it's my own cooking, which is weird since I certainly didn't have any problem eating any of the food the first time around. It's not a trust thing, and it's not (always) a preferred-foods thing... I guess maybe it's just "pride of ownership" in my own creations? IDK
For me it's a texture thing. If the leftovers can be reheated without one component getting soggy or dried out and all the parts are hot again, I am fine. I have an aversion to warmed up food (probably some cave-brain about food borne illness) and I also get sick from food easily. My in-laws will soak the dried cod overnight in a bowl on the dryer and I cannot eat that fish casserole at all. My DH and his siblings will chow down and feel a little off the next day.
All of the above, but for me a lot of it is also how it's been packaged/stored. Something about seeing those nasty tupperware containers with ancient food staining the plastic crevices, all smooshed down by the lid but still somehow the lid came off and it's absorbed other odors and gotten crusty from dry air... yuck. Now that I run the house I use only glass containers and try to still "plate" it in an appetizing way. That really helps the situation.
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I feel like it should go without saying that no one would be expected to like leftovers that aren't stored and packaged safely, but I guess it doesn't. We use glass containers as well.
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Leftovers taste better than fresh cooked, generally. The flavours have a chance to mingle.
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Yes - things like soup & curries & casseroles especially. (eating a leftover bowl of soup as I type this!)
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Leftovers taste better than fresh cooked, generally. The flavours have a chance to mingle.
(When I was a kid, I always had 2 choices for meals - eat it or go hungry, lol. Still not a picky eater.)
This is certainly true for some things, i.e. lasagna.
Not so much for others, i.e. pizza or pasta (which tend to degrade when I reheat them).
I may also benefite from some re-heating tips if this can be fixed.
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Leftovers taste better than fresh cooked, generally. The flavours have a chance to mingle.
(When I was a kid, I always had 2 choices for meals - eat it or go hungry, lol. Still not a picky eater.)
This is certainly true for some things, i.e. lasagna.
Not so much for others, i.e. pizza or pasta (which tend to degrade when I reheat them).
I may also benefite from some re-heating tips if this can be fixed.
For pizza, toaster oven is better than microwave, obviously.
If the crust is unusually soggy, put it in a pan and heat it up like an open-faced grilled cheese. Delicious!
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Leftovers taste better than fresh cooked, generally. The flavours have a chance to mingle.
(When I was a kid, I always had 2 choices for meals - eat it or go hungry, lol. Still not a picky eater.)
This is certainly true for some things, i.e. lasagna.
Not so much for others, i.e. pizza or pasta (which tend to degrade when I reheat them).
I may also benefite from some re-heating tips if this can be fixed.
If the pasta is in a sauce, heating up in the oven is better than microwave. same of course for pizza.
I think it is a subconscious fear or memory of getting sick from old food that puts people off leftovers. When you have put the food away you know when the food was made, how it was stored and how long its been there, versus someone else making it.
I like leftovers for certain things (lasanga, meatloaf, etc) basically time intensive items that taste better the next day. Rest of leftoevers, probably prefer to have something fresh but I don't want to waste food. Sadly my kids are not generally fans of leftovers, so I end up eating the lion's share of leftovers. But yeah. My kids would like a new meal every day even if there are 2 different kind of leftoevers in the fridge. Bugs me.
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Leftovers taste better than fresh cooked, generally. The flavours have a chance to mingle.
(When I was a kid, I always had 2 choices for meals - eat it or go hungry, lol. Still not a picky eater.)
This is certainly true for some things, i.e. lasagna.
Not so much for others, i.e. pizza or pasta (which tend to degrade when I reheat them).
I may also benefite from some re-heating tips if this can be fixed.
For pizza, toaster oven is better than microwave, obviously.
If the crust is unusually soggy, put it in a pan and heat it up like an open-faced grilled cheese. Delicious!
I love reheated pizza in the toaster oven or air fryer, in fact, I usually stick it in with a couple of wings right after arrival.
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I have always been baffled by people's aversion to leftovers. However, I have often been the benefactor of said aversion.
At my former workplace, a good friend of mine complained about how her fridge is perpetually filled with leftovers because neither she nor her husband would eat them, but for some reason, they could also not bring themselves to throw the food away when it went unfinished the first time around because it was seemed wasteful. I offered to make that problem go away by eating any and all leftovers they accumulated on a daily basis (I knew this person well and knew their kitchen was one I trusted).
A few days afterward, upon witnessing this disgusting phenomenon in the break room, two other work friends inquired. They too shared the same aversion.
I spent the next two years eating between a two and three course free lunch every day.
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lol that's a win-win-win!
You win, they win, earth wins!
100% MMM approved!
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I have always been baffled by people's aversion to leftovers. However, I have often been the benefactor of said aversion.
At my former workplace, a good friend of mine complained about how her fridge is perpetually filled with leftovers because neither she nor her husband would eat them, but for some reason, they could also not bring themselves to throw the food away when it went unfinished the first time around because it was seemed wasteful. I offered to make that problem go away by eating any and all leftovers they accumulated on a daily basis (I knew this person well and knew their kitchen was one I trusted).
A few days afterward, upon witnessing this disgusting phenomenon in the break room, two other work friends inquired. They too shared the same aversion.
I spent the next two years eating between a two and three course free lunch every day.
Thank you for bringing a good post to this ridiculous discussion about people not eating/liking leftovers. It had been getting so idiotic here I was about to post on the "Overheard Over the Fence" thread about this group of people I read about who can't figure out how to cook enough for multiple meals and make it good...
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I have always been baffled by people's aversion to leftovers. However, I have often been the benefactor of said aversion.
At my former workplace, a good friend of mine complained about how her fridge is perpetually filled with leftovers because neither she nor her husband would eat them, but for some reason, they could also not bring themselves to throw the food away when it went unfinished the first time around because it was seemed wasteful. I offered to make that problem go away by eating any and all leftovers they accumulated on a daily basis (I knew this person well and knew their kitchen was one I trusted).
A few days afterward, upon witnessing this disgusting phenomenon in the break room, two other work friends inquired. They too shared the same aversion.
I spent the next two years eating between a two and three course free lunch every day.
Thank you for bringing a good post to this ridiculous discussion about people not eating/liking leftovers. It had been getting so idiotic here I was about to post on the "Overheard Over the Fence" thread about this group of people I read about who can't figure out how to cook enough for multiple meals and make it good...
Does an intentional multiple-meal preparation even count as leftovers? It's not as though the entire pot of chili or soup is served and then relegated to leftovers, when it's intentionally portioned out into multiple servings and then refrigerated to be taken out for lunch each day. Can an item even be a leftover if it never makes it to the table? If I buy a bag of apples and eat one, are the rest magically transmuted into leftovers?
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I have always been baffled by people's aversion to leftovers. However, I have often been the benefactor of said aversion.
At my former workplace, a good friend of mine complained about how her fridge is perpetually filled with leftovers because neither she nor her husband would eat them, but for some reason, they could also not bring themselves to throw the food away when it went unfinished the first time around because it was seemed wasteful. I offered to make that problem go away by eating any and all leftovers they accumulated on a daily basis (I knew this person well and knew their kitchen was one I trusted).
A few days afterward, upon witnessing this disgusting phenomenon in the break room, two other work friends inquired. They too shared the same aversion.
I spent the next two years eating between a two and three course free lunch every day.
Thank you for bringing a good post to this ridiculous discussion about people not eating/liking leftovers. It had been getting so idiotic here I was about to post on the "Overheard Over the Fence" thread about this group of people I read about who can't figure out how to cook enough for multiple meals and make it good...
Does an intentional multiple-meal preparation even count as leftovers? It's not as though the entire pot of chili or soup is served and then relegated to leftovers, when it's intentionally portioned out into multiple servings and then refrigerated to be taken out for lunch each day. Can an item even be a leftover if it never makes it to the table? If I buy a bag of apples and eat one, are the rest magically transmuted into leftovers?
I was trying to avoid going there...I was even wondering about cookies (though your apples is a much healthier example!) or pie or cake. While I have been known to stuff myself and try to consume every last slice of a key lime pie my spouse mixes up, it tends to be taken away from me before I get back to it a third time. I get put in pie timeout for at least a dozen hours.
I do not consider almost all of the food I eat as leftovers. Sometimes the entire pan of whatever goes right into the freezer and never even makes it to a single meal for a number of weeks. It's just food. I can't recall the last time we cooked something that was fully consumed on the first day. Maybe the main course when we grill steaks, but normally some vegetable dish will go for two+ meals. Perhaps breakfast would be the one thing that is often "cooked to order". Just enough pancakes, just enough eggs in the skillet, and so on.
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I have always been baffled by people's aversion to leftovers. However, I have often been the benefactor of said aversion.
At my former workplace, a good friend of mine complained about how her fridge is perpetually filled with leftovers because neither she nor her husband would eat them, but for some reason, they could also not bring themselves to throw the food away when it went unfinished the first time around because it was seemed wasteful. I offered to make that problem go away by eating any and all leftovers they accumulated on a daily basis (I knew this person well and knew their kitchen was one I trusted).
A few days afterward, upon witnessing this disgusting phenomenon in the break room, two other work friends inquired. They too shared the same aversion.
I spent the next two years eating between a two and three course free lunch every day.
This is pure gold
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I have always been baffled by people's aversion to leftovers. However, I have often been the benefactor of said aversion.
At my former workplace, a good friend of mine complained about how her fridge is perpetually filled with leftovers because neither she nor her husband would eat them, but for some reason, they could also not bring themselves to throw the food away when it went unfinished the first time around because it was seemed wasteful. I offered to make that problem go away by eating any and all leftovers they accumulated on a daily basis (I knew this person well and knew their kitchen was one I trusted).
A few days afterward, upon witnessing this disgusting phenomenon in the break room, two other work friends inquired. They too shared the same aversion.
I spent the next two years eating between a two and three course free lunch every day.
Thank you for bringing a good post to this ridiculous discussion about people not eating/liking leftovers. It had been getting so idiotic here I was about to post on the "Overheard Over the Fence" thread about this group of people I read about who can't figure out how to cook enough for multiple meals and make it good...
Does an intentional multiple-meal preparation even count as leftovers? It's not as though the entire pot of chili or soup is served and then relegated to leftovers, when it's intentionally portioned out into multiple servings and then refrigerated to be taken out for lunch each day. Can an item even be a leftover if it never makes it to the table? If I buy a bag of apples and eat one, are the rest magically transmuted into leftovers?
I've been known to call meal prepping "organized leftovers".
To add to the conversation, my husband has a rather sensitive stomach so he's a bit more squeamish on leftovers. I have no such problems. I also work in the office and he works from home, so I basically eat all the dinner leftovers at work and he makes sandwiches at home. Everything gets eaten and no one gets sick. Win.
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Leftovers: A waste is a terrible thing to mind.
Office leftovers, esp home made, I love those. That's accepting other food cultures and trying something new that you may never get in a restaurant.
On the flip side, I eat too much of them, because I may not get more the next day. Weight gain, which means workout more, which creates hunger, feeding a never ending cycle.
Also, I don't appreciate people who turn their noses up at leftovers, esp vocally or making faces. There are some in my family. I've told them that if they don't like it, they should keep it to themselves, don't ruin the excitement of others, especially mine. Hangry me is not a nice guy.
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Leftovers taste better than fresh cooked, generally. The flavours have a chance to mingle.
(When I was a kid, I always had 2 choices for meals - eat it or go hungry, lol. Still not a picky eater.)
This is certainly true for some things, i.e. lasagna.
Not so much for others, i.e. pizza or pasta (which tend to degrade when I reheat them).
I may also benefite from some re-heating tips if this can be fixed.
With pizza, I'd start by giving it a quick nuke - 15 seconds or so, just so it's not fridge-cold & the bread starts to throw a little steam onto the plate underneath - then slide it onto a preheated pan hot enough to sizzle (steam is paradoxically your friend for bread crustiness.) Rotate around the pan a few times until thoroughly re-crisped on the bottom. Delicious. Sometimes better than the first day owing to being crunchier with more browning on the carbs. A little balsamic can also brighten it up, especially if you toss it on a salad which you apply directly to the top of just-reheated pizza. For larger amounts (half a pizza) preheat anything made of iron, ceramic, or heavy steel, slide the pizza on, & toss under the broiler.
Pasta, depends on the sauce. Most of my pastas are heavy on vegetables but light on (very intense) sauce so they reheat really well, though best when sealed (pop a plate over the bowl) at low to 50% power over a 3-4 minute period per bowl. When in doubt you can cheat & add a little cream, which rehydrates & lubricates things nicely. If I'm making a large batch of something with the expectation of leftovers I tend to lean very al dente on both the pasta & veg so they don't turn to paste when reheated. Not letting the pasta continue to cook after it's done (i.e. get it off the stove, & spread it out to cool, especially if it's in thick sauce) is important for that latter.
I thought I hated leftovers growing up, what I hated was soggy low-effort microwave meals.
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For Pizza, if I’m reheating leftovers from the fridge, I’ll put a few slices upside down on a plate and microwave on the reheat setting for 30-60 seconds depending on the size and number of slices. That way, the crust doesn’t go soggy from being in between the plate and ingredients on top.
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For Pizza, if I’m reheating leftovers from the fridge, I’ll put a few slices upside down on a plate and microwave on the reheat setting for 30-60 seconds depending on the size and number of slices. That way, the crust doesn’t go soggy from being in between the plate and ingredients on top.
absolute psychopath
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Leftovers taste better than fresh cooked, generally. The flavours have a chance to mingle.
(When I was a kid, I always had 2 choices for meals - eat it or go hungry, lol. Still not a picky eater.)
This is certainly true for some things, i.e. lasagna.
Not so much for others, i.e. pizza or pasta (which tend to degrade when I reheat them).
I may also benefite from some re-heating tips if this can be fixed.
With pizza, I'd start by giving it a quick nuke - 15 seconds or so, just so it's not fridge-cold & the bread starts to throw a little steam onto the plate underneath - then slide it onto a preheated pan hot enough to sizzle (steam is paradoxically your friend for bread crustiness.) Rotate around the pan a few times until thoroughly re-crisped on the bottom. Delicious. Sometimes better than the first day owing to being crunchier with more browning on the carbs. A little balsamic can also brighten it up, especially if you toss it on a salad which you apply directly to the top of just-reheated pizza. For larger amounts (half a pizza) preheat anything made of iron, ceramic, or heavy steel, slide the pizza on, & toss under the broiler.
Pasta, depends on the sauce. Most of my pastas are heavy on vegetables but light on (very intense) sauce so they reheat really well, though best when sealed (pop a plate over the bowl) at low to 50% power over a 3-4 minute period per bowl. When in doubt you can cheat & add a little cream, which rehydrates & lubricates things nicely. If I'm making a large batch of something with the expectation of leftovers I tend to lean very al dente on both the pasta & veg so they don't turn to paste when reheated. Not letting the pasta continue to cook after it's done (i.e. get it off the stove, & spread it out to cool, especially if it's in thick sauce) is important for that latter.
I thought I hated leftovers growing up, what I hated was soggy low-effort microwave meals.
What do you preheat the pan to? Do you spray or do anything to keep it from sticking?
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WRT Pizza:
The best way to eat pizza is after it has sat, congealing in the fridge, for at least 24 hours. I have no idea why, but cold, stale pizza is one of my absolute favorite foods.
For the topic of the thread WRT to leftovers - it is shocking to me STILL that people don't pack their own lunches. Where I work (near Boston), lunch is easily $15-20. In my office of 20, me and one other person bring a lunch, everyone else orders out. The walk around at 11:30 is like clockwork: "Where you going for lunch today?"
I have a reputation that a crowbar is needed to pry my wallet open for eating out.
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- it is shocking to me STILL that people don't pack their own lunches. Where I work (near Boston), lunch is easily $15-20. In my office of 20, me and one other person bring a lunch, everyone else orders out. The walk around at 11:30 is like clockwork: "Where you going for lunch today?"
Your office sounds like mine. I find it funny how the same co-workers will complain about rising food prices, bad service, and quality yet they still go out for lunch all the time.
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Coworker. Late fifties. Great guy. Terrible with money, but he knows it. Bought a brand new fancy truck about 3 years ago. Told me the interest rate was 12%. Used it for his 40 minute commute. His wife drove a minicooper bought used. Fast forward to last year. Trades in his 2 year old truck for another brand new truck. Payments are over $600/mon. Also trades in his wife's minicooper, which was about to be paid off, for a brand new car (forget which model). Between payments, gas, and insurance alone, he's got to be shelling out over $1,000/mon just on the truck for basic transportation. Damn.
I posted that two years ago. The saga continues. He just traded in THAT truck for a new 4x4 F250 with crewcab. Payment only $871/mon. Damn....
Posted that 2.5 years ago. He came in hours late to work Mon annnnd announced he just traded in THAT truck for a used F-series with 60k miles. This time a diesel. Price before hitting the financing dept was 59K. Expressed a desire to refinance in the future, so you can guess what the IR is like. He's 62 now. Still has a long ways to go on the mortgage.
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Coworker. Late fifties. Great guy. Terrible with money, but he knows it. Bought a brand new fancy truck about 3 years ago. Told me the interest rate was 12%. Used it for his 40 minute commute. His wife drove a minicooper bought used. Fast forward to last year. Trades in his 2 year old truck for another brand new truck. Payments are over $600/mon. Also trades in his wife's minicooper, which was about to be paid off, for a brand new car (forget which model). Between payments, gas, and insurance alone, he's got to be shelling out over $1,000/mon just on the truck for basic transportation. Damn.
I posted that two years ago. The saga continues. He just traded in THAT truck for a new 4x4 F250 with crewcab. Payment only $871/mon. Damn....
Posted that 2.5 years ago. He came in hours late to work Mon annnnd announced he just traded in THAT truck for a used F-series with 60k miles. This time a diesel. Price before hitting the financing dept was 59K. Expressed a desire to refinance in the future, so you can guess what the IR is like. He's 62 now. Still has a long ways to go on the mortgage.
Get ready for more attachments for the used Ford diesel truck - in the form of an RV - 5th wheel- "toyhauler"/ etc. Best if he gets that bought and financed while still employed if he doesn't have one yet...
Your guy sounds like he bought a newish used version @ $60K - I have 2 co-workers with older diesel Ford trucks, [ they paid circa 25K for them, used]. And now have dumped literally many thousands $$ more into fixing / repairing various fuel injector/ oil pressure / oil leak issues. Issues that leave them stranded and needing a tow, not just an oil puddle on the ground. -- Granted these are rigs with >150K miles, but they've deluded themselves into thinking the next costly fix will finally stop the pain + drain.
I tried to give similar examples of sunk-cost-fallacy to them, to try to persuade them, to move on to something newer at least, if they absolutely had to have a diesel to pull some huge load [ they don't- it's "toys" and a 5th wheel that is practically rooted to the earth ]
Now I just quickly write and hold up a sign that says " Sell-It ! " when one of them complains about why his tow rig is broken again. Folks in the room laugh, then we repeat the scenario 2 months later.
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If they are going to own a toy hauler it is almost certainly cheaper for them to own something older and pay to fix it occassionally than it would be to buy something newer as you say in your post.
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What do you preheat the pan to? Do you spray or do anything to keep it from sticking?
“Hot,” usually enough to sizzle a water droplet within ten seconds or so. I don’t spray or oil the pan - commercial pizza crust is greasy enough to re-fry itself, & my homemade pizza is made on a dough that’s essentially just bread dough, so that short trip in the microwave to get the crust to steam just a little recreates the conditions necessary to crisp the crust. Not a lot of risk of sticking if the cheese didn’t slump off the sides.
I find generally if your food sticks it’s either because it hasn’t been in place long enough to release or the pan isn’t hot enough.
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If they are going to own a toy hauler it is almost certainly cheaper for them to own something older and pay to fix it occassionally than it would be to buy something newer as you say in your post.
Agree that in 90% of cases you are correct.
But in this anecdote, buying that year and Diesel drivetrain combination, at the price they did, with the relatively High Miles that were already on the trucks when purchased , plus all the subsequent breakdowns and multi-thousand dollar repair bills, + $1000 tow bills {because they had a trailer attached and >50 miles from home} just does not pencil out.
Either person could have purchased a used but newer, much lower mileage, gas or diesel engine truck - that cost even $10-15K more initially - instead of the money pits they did acquire, and come out ahead monetarily + with less angst + better resale value.
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Coworker at my factory job who started fairly recently (approximately 3 months ago) just bought a 2020 Megacab Dodge Cummins "Laramie Edition" (no idea what that last part means other than presumably more $$$). The sticker price was somewhere around $70,000 from what I understand, which is about $10,000 more than his yearly salary. Of course, he'll end up paying closer to $100k after interest, since he financed nearly all of the purchase price (minus what he got for trading in his previous truck, a 2009 Dodge Ram 1500). I wish the clown behavior ended there, but it gets worse.
Just yesterday I noticed a new sticker on his rear windshield, with an Instagram name. I checked it out to see for myself, and it's an entire Instagram page devoted to showing off his various wheeled financial blunders. Both aforementioned trucks, plus a 2010 mustang and some kind of sports bike. If the photo gallery of his depreciating debt-mobiles wasn't bad enough, he's also added super cringey text to each of the image posts. A couple notable examples:
Picture of new truck with text: "All my exs really fumbled a bag" (This is Gen Z speak for: "All my exs really missed a chance to be with a dude who has lots of money)
Picture of old truck, mustang, and motorcycle with text: "Got the trifecta at the age of 20 and I'm still working towards more goals harder than some people in their 40s" - Right mindset, completely wrong priorities.
Barely a week after he bought the new truck he was complaining in the break room about some sensor needing replaced. Apparently it's a $4,000 part that isn't strictly necessary, but simply removing it would void his warranty. He doesn't have $4,000 to replace the part, and so is considering whether voiding his warranty is a preferable alternative to trying to save $4,000
His situation makes me want to laugh and cry. I really hope he comes to his senses and gets his priorities straight. He's still quite young, but he's already got about six figures of debt without even owning a house. And all this while working an entry level factory position he's had for only a few months.
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The sticker price was somewhere around $70,000 from what I understand
When I am fantasizing about what I will tell people, when the day comes that I announce ER/I'm out of here, and they wonder how I can afford to do that, the first line that pops into my head is: "It starts with being incapable, on a molecular level, of spending $70,000 on a vehicle."
I won't do this, because one mustn't gloat/antagonize/burn bridges, and this level of clown car spending is considered normal at the corporate level just above mine.
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New coworker is a young guy not sure exactly maybe very early 20s. Entry level landscaping job. Is trying to get out of the $50k+ cargo van he bought to do a delivery job that never actually panned out. Not sure why he needed to sign up for over $50k of debt and presumably $1000+ per month in payments for a van when he could easily find an older cargo van for $5k. You don’t need a pretty van do deliveries. I doubt he can get more than $40k for it now.
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... the first line that pops into my head is: "It starts with being incapable, on a molecular level, of spending $70,000 on a vehicle."
I'm really liking the new Ford Broncos, and I saw one in a color I LOVED a few days ago. (Cactus Gray in case you're wondering.) So just for fun, I "built" one online. I think the final price ended up in the $45,xxx range, which was honestly lower than I thought it would be. But nah, I'm good with my 10 year old Ford hatchback plug-in hybrid, thank you very much.
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Picture of new truck with text: "All my exs really fumbled a bag" (This is Gen Z speak for: "All my exs really missed a chance to be with a dude who has lots of money)
Picture of old truck, mustang, and motorcycle with text: "Got the trifecta at the age of 20 and I'm still working towards more goals harder than some people in their 40s" - Right mindset, completely wrong priorities.
And this is why it’s important not to judge people’s wealth based on their vehicles. I have to admit, there are times when I am driving our 2008 Prius and I see these shiny new cars on the road and I have an internal sigh. What am I doing wrong? I have to shake my head and just think about the massive role credit plays in consumer lifestyles.
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Picture of new truck with text: "All my exs really fumbled a bag" (This is Gen Z speak for: "All my exs really missed a chance to be with a dude who has lots of money)
Picture of old truck, mustang, and motorcycle with text: "Got the trifecta at the age of 20 and I'm still working towards more goals harder than some people in their 40s" - Right mindset, completely wrong priorities.
And this is why it’s important not to judge people’s wealth based on their vehicles. I have to admit, there are times when I am driving our 2008 Prius and I see these shiny new cars on the road and I have an internal sigh. What am I doing wrong? I have to shake my head and just think about the massive role credit plays in consumer lifestyles.
My husband has a 2009 Chevy Cobalt that is now relegated to back up vehicle (the engine is fine, the passenger door may come off at any time). He parked in front of our local bar and the bouncer scoffed at it and made some comment that he had assumed it was at least mine. I replied that it was the best kind of car: paid off, which kept him quiet. The bouncer is a nice enough guy but dude, you make $15 an hour and drive a $55k truck. My husband's manliness is not contingent on your shitty finances.
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Picture of new truck with text: "All my exs really fumbled a bag" (This is Gen Z speak for: "All my exs really missed a chance to be with a dude who has lots of money)
Picture of old truck, mustang, and motorcycle with text: "Got the trifecta at the age of 20 and I'm still working towards more goals harder than some people in their 40s" - Right mindset, completely wrong priorities.
And this is why it’s important not to judge people’s wealth based on their vehicles. I have to admit, there are times when I am driving our 2008 Prius and I see these shiny new cars on the road and I have an internal sigh. What am I doing wrong? I have to shake my head and just think about the massive role credit plays in consumer lifestyles.
I have a relative who has a wife and kids and also seems to have *all* the toys (dirt bikes, side by side, nice garage/shop with a two-post lift, etc). He's commented in the past that they couldn't buy more toys until they paid down some of their debt. And he was making *good* money in a white collar job without a college degree. I have to remind myself that I have no idea what his retirement accounts look like, and also remember that DW and I chose to have three times as many kids. Life is all about choices.
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Picture of new truck with text: "All my exs really fumbled a bag" (This is Gen Z speak for: "All my exs really missed a chance to be with a dude who has lots of money)
Picture of old truck, mustang, and motorcycle with text: "Got the trifecta at the age of 20 and I'm still working towards more goals harder than some people in their 40s" - Right mindset, completely wrong priorities.
And this is why it’s important not to judge people’s wealth based on their vehicles. I have to admit, there are times when I am driving our 2008 Prius and I see these shiny new cars on the road and I have an internal sigh. What am I doing wrong? I have to shake my head and just think about the massive role credit plays in consumer lifestyles.
I sometimes sigh when I see the paint is nearly gone on the roof and the wear on the fabric seats, but it has served me so faithfully that I just can't give up on it.
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I admit that I covet some of the features of the other vehicles I see on the road. But my 2009 vehicle, which is a glorified golf cart but which only has 120k miles on it, is meeting my needs even though I get laughed at by minimum wage earners.
It appears that cars have gone the way of houses: most of them appear to not be fully paid for, and have been bought with borrowed money.
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I admit that I covet some of the features of the other vehicles I see on the road. But my 2009 vehicle, which is a glorified golf cart but which only has 120k miles on it, is meeting my needs even though I get laughed at by minimum wage earners.
It appears that cars have gone the way of houses: most of them appear to not be fully paid for, and have been bought with borrowed money.
Also way to big and full of fancy bells and whistles that will fail quicker and can't be DIY fixed or even ignored because it's over-designed?
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I admit that I covet some of the features of the other vehicles I see on the road. But my 2009 vehicle, which is a glorified golf cart but which only has 120k miles on it, is meeting my needs even though I get laughed at by minimum wage earners.
It appears that cars have gone the way of houses: most of them appear to not be fully paid for, and have been bought with borrowed money.
Also way to big and full of fancy bells and whistles that will fail quicker and can't be DIY fixed or even ignored because it's over-designed?
I think the early 2000's were the peak of car manufacturing in terms of relative safety, power, and efficiency.
All the additional "life enhancers" added since are really just the bells and whistles you speak of.
I bought a new work truck last year, a base model Nissan, and it's still full of extras I don't need.
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I sometimes sigh when I see the paint is nearly gone on the roof and the wear on the fabric seats, but it has served me so faithfully that I just can't give up on it.
A can of automotive spray paint cost me probably less than 20 bucks a few years back :-) and the mismatched colors I think look even better than stock.
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I admit that I covet some of the features of the other vehicles I see on the road. But my 2009 vehicle, which is a glorified golf cart but which only has 120k miles on it, is meeting my needs even though I get laughed at by minimum wage earners.
It appears that cars have gone the way of houses: most of them appear to not be fully paid for, and have been bought with borrowed money.
Also way to big and full of fancy bells and whistles that will fail quicker and can't be DIY fixed or even ignored because it's over-designed?
I think the early 2000's were the peak of car manufacturing in terms of relative safety, power, and efficiency.
All the additional "life enhancers" added since are really just the bells and whistles you speak of.
I bought a new work truck last year, a base model Nissan, and it's still full of extras I don't need.
I like some of the bells and whistles but not others. I can live without a sun roof and that entire touch screen based infotainment system, but I'd really love it if I could turn on my switch and my seat would heat up. Or if my windshield were at an angle that didn't attract every flying pebble in the immediate area.
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I admit that I covet some of the features of the other vehicles I see on the road. But my 2009 vehicle, which is a glorified golf cart but which only has 120k miles on it, is meeting my needs even though I get laughed at by minimum wage earners.
It appears that cars have gone the way of houses: most of them appear to not be fully paid for, and have been bought with borrowed money.
Also way to big and full of fancy bells and whistles that will fail quicker and can't be DIY fixed or even ignored because it's over-designed?
I think the early 2000's were the peak of car manufacturing in terms of relative safety, power, and efficiency.
All the additional "life enhancers" added since are really just the bells and whistles you speak of.
I bought a new work truck last year, a base model Nissan, and it's still full of extras I don't need.
I like some of the bells and whistles but not others. I can live without a sun roof and that entire touch screen based infotainment system, but I'd really love it if I could turn on my switch and my seat would heat up. Or if my windshield were at an angle that didn't attract every flying pebble in the immediate area.
I like the little light that flashes in my outside mirrors when a vehicle is in my blind spot, and the lane departure warning (which shakes the steering wheel like you're driving over those "road turtles"), that's about it.
You can get aftermarket heated seat pads; they were an option on the Wet Okole neoprene seat covers I got (I'm wet and dirty).
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I was never a fan of heated seats, I always thought that I lived in a climate too warm for them anyway. But I get a lot of rental cars on work trips and a colleague said they used them after a long day standing to make their back feel better. I tried it and sure enough it’s like sitting in a warm jacuzzi, very soothing - but not enough for me to sell the Prius haha. I didn’t know about the warming seat covers, maybe I’ll look into it.
The only other modern feature I really like is adaptive cruise control. Makes long road trips on an interstate very easy.
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Teammate sends me message with a snip from company email indicating that a bonus is 401(k) elibigle.
Coworker: "My understanding is that if you want the whole amount to get to your bank you need to change your 401(k) contribution"
Me: "Actually I went ahead and upped mine... would rather be taxed 0% on more of it than XX%... I hope my contribution change takes effect in time!"
Coworker: "i just dropped mine to 0 lol"
This is a company that also has an effective match of 9% (4% matching and 5% "enhanced" contribution). I have a feeling if I told them I changed my contribution from 35% to the maximum allowable of 60% they might have sh!t a brick.
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Picture of new truck with text: "All my exs really fumbled a bag" (This is Gen Z speak for: "All my exs really missed a chance to be with a dude who has lots of money)
Picture of old truck, mustang, and motorcycle with text: "Got the trifecta at the age of 20 and I'm still working towards more goals harder than some people in their 40s" - Right mindset, completely wrong priorities.
And this is why it’s important not to judge people’s wealth based on their vehicles. I have to admit, there are times when I am driving our 2008 Prius and I see these shiny new cars on the road and I have an internal sigh. What am I doing wrong? I have to shake my head and just think about the massive role credit plays in consumer lifestyles.
I feel like simply not having the car-brain-disease gets you halfway to financial independence. Spending a year's salary on a car, while not uncommon, is absolutely insane.
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Picture of new truck with text: "All my exs really fumbled a bag" (This is Gen Z speak for: "All my exs really missed a chance to be with a dude who has lots of money)
Picture of old truck, mustang, and motorcycle with text: "Got the trifecta at the age of 20 and I'm still working towards more goals harder than some people in their 40s" - Right mindset, completely wrong priorities.
And this is why it’s important not to judge people’s wealth based on their vehicles. I have to admit, there are times when I am driving our 2008 Prius and I see these shiny new cars on the road and I have an internal sigh. What am I doing wrong? I have to shake my head and just think about the massive role credit plays in consumer lifestyles.
I feel like simply not having the car-brain-disease gets you halfway to financial independence. Spending a year's salary on a car, while not uncommon, is absolutely insane.
Especially when it's being done on borrowed money. Stanley and Danko once published an assertion that one of the major factors that affected whether a person would become wealthy was the amount of debt they took on for things like housing. A mortgage balance of more than double a person's annual realized income, to them, was a red flag.
So, I decided to find out how many people had actual auto loans.
I found a Yahoo article dated March 3, 2023 with data clipped from Experian, Edmunds, and KBB. It makes the following points.
- The average monthly payment for new cars is $716, according to Experian.
- The average monthly payment for used cars is $526, according to Experian.
- New cars cost an average of $49,507, according to Kelley Blue Book.
- Average loan term for new cars is 69.44, according to Experian.
- Average loan rate for new cars is 6.07 percent, according to Experian.
- Average loan term for used cars is 68.01 months, according to Experian.
- Average loan rate for used cars is 10.26 percent, according to Experian.
- Drivers pay an average down payment of $6,780, according to Edmunds.
Now, the average car loan balance, according to the same article, is $5,210. Of course that figure appears to include people who have no car loan (no car? car paid off?) According to PIRG, 85% of all new cars sold have loans against them, up from 75% in 2009. Unfortunately, some authors conflate those figures and say that 85% of all Americans have car debt. It's not the same.
I did some digging, and Investopedia quotes TransUnion as saying that "the average auto borrower had a balance of $29,169". WTF Batman: that's five and a half times more than the figure quoted in the Yahoo article. Then I realized that the number on the Yahoo article included all the people who didn't have a car loan, whose balance was zero.
What I can't find readily is a discussion of how many adults actually have car loans, versus how many have none.
Most of my life I've been under the impression that normal people didn't have car loans. I knew almost nobody who had one until I moved State-side. I recall that a vehicle loan was an acceptable thing for a very young person to have, starting out, but if a person still had a car loan at age 30 something was badly wrong and a car loan at age 40 was a sign of critically bad money management. The other day I heard someone say that "most people" have car loans. I instinctively responded with an assertion that it wasn't the case, but if there really are that many stupid, short-sighted or self-destructive people out there I might be the one in the wrong.
Has anyone looked at the demographics of car debt?
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Most of my life I've been under the impression that normal people didn't have car loans. I knew almost nobody who had one until I moved State-side. I recall that a vehicle loan was an acceptable thing for a very young person to have, starting out, but if a person still had a car loan at age 30 something was badly wrong and a car loan at age 40 was a sign of critically bad money management. The other day I heard someone say that "most people" have car loans. I instinctively responded with an assertion that it wasn't the case, but if there really are that many stupid, short-sighted or self-destructive people out there I might be the one in the wrong.
Has anyone looked at the demographics of car debt?
I would guess that the majority of American households do have car debt. Just drive down the street and see how many newish cars you see and assume almost all of them are financed (85% according to the figures you found). Most people really are that short-sighted - or at least are of the mindset that it's totally normal to have an auto loan most of your life, just like having a mortgage. If you ever spend an afternoon listening to Dave Ramsey, probably half or more of the calls boil down to someone is in their current (bad) financial situation because of auto debt.
My parents were always of the mindset that they bought a new car and then drove it for 5-10 years during which time they would pay it off. After it was paid off for a few years they would repeat the cycle. Typically, with a moderately-priced sedan like a Toyota Camry. I would say that's pretty typical. I knew other people who would only keep a new car for 3-5 years and then trade it in before it was even paid off. In some cases, they probably ended up with little or no equity on the trade-in and just repeated the cycle.
I had to take out a loan to buy a used minivan (~$15k) when we outgrew our car a decade or so ago. That got paid off in a couple of years and I've never had any auto debt since - just paid all cash for used vehicles ($10k, $3k, $5k). It's not fun getting a $1,000 repair bill every once in a while on a 15-25-year-old vehicle - but that's still waaaaay cheaper than a monthly payment. Alas, most people get too wrapped up in the idea that having a car break down once every few years or having to pay a $1,000 repair bill means they're totally justified to borrow $30k+ to buy a new vehicle (then another $5-10k in interest and higher comprehensive insurance) just to avoid those relatively minor problems.
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One more car loan data point:
We had 2 cars for the work commute. Each had a 3 year loan. Pay it off, the other car was now 6 years old, trade it in, new car loan. We never had 2 car loans, but except in the very early years (our first old car was a wedding gift and we didn't need 2) we always had a car loan.
My last car had a loan, simply because it was basically 0% interest rate, and I was just separated and had cash flow issues. My present car I paid cash. I feel I have a very luxurious car (2021 Mazda CX-3, used, 2,000 km) and it was just under $25,000CAN, when used cars were as expensive as new cars and new cars had long waits.
I have no idea what Ex is driving (no contact is wonderful) but I would bet higher than 50:50 that he has a car loan.
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Brad from ChooseFI sends out a weekly newsletter. A recent one ran some numbers, updating an old podcast having to do with car payments. He was inspired to update the calculations, because he read that the average US car payment is now nearly $800 per month!
He originally did the exercise, assuming a $300 per month car payment, and projected wealth after 45 years of car payments. At that rate, the FI person with no payments ended up with **$750k more wealth** after 45 years than someone who just rolled over into a $300 per month payment forever.
Now he's re-done the math, assuming a $777 per month car loan, continually paid over 45 years. The FI person would buy new, pay a payment for 5 years, and then add to savings for the next 10 years. Then, after 15 years, they'd buy again, but limit their payment to $300 per month again.
Note that he only contributes to the Car Savings Account for the first purchase - he never adds another penny after Year 15 of the 45 years.
Here is the newsletter excerpt:
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"[Let's look at] the true cost of that $777 per month ‘managed’ car payment vs. someone with the FI mindset and how they would come out nearly $2 million ahead (!) of the less optimized continual car payment person
I revisited our calculation from Episode 22 where we looked at two people side-by-side over a 45-year period.
In that old example, the first person paid $300 per month for 45 years to consistently have newer cars.
The FI-minded person looked at the 45 years as three 15-year cycles where they’d have car payments for five years and then hold that car for another 10 years (so that car was held for 15 years). During the 10 years with no payments, they’d invest that $300 in low-cost index funds.
When 15 years was up, they’d get a new car with $300/month payments and not add to the invested money, but their existing savings would continue to compound.
At the end of 45 years, they’d be sitting with a net worth, just from these [$300 per month] car payment savings, of nearly $750,000 -- while the first person had $0 to show for it.
Since I read the new average $777/month, I wanted to update the analysis to keep the same scenario, but now the car payment changed to $777 (and thus the savings per month is $777 for the FI-person).
Our FI driver’s net worth was now over $1,900,000 higher! From one decision to drive the exact same cars as the less optimized version, but to just drive each of them for 15 years instead of 5.
One decision, nearly $2 million in higher net worth."
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Wow.
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I was never a fan of heated seats, I always thought that I lived in a climate too warm for them anyway. But I get a lot of rental cars on work trips and a colleague said they used them after a long day standing to make their back feel better. I tried it and sure enough it’s like sitting in a warm jacuzzi, very soothing - but not enough for me to sell the Prius haha. I didn’t know about the warming seat covers, maybe I’ll look into it.
The only other modern feature I really like is adaptive cruise control. Makes long road trips on an interstate very easy.
My last car had heated seats. I live in a hot climate, and one blazing summer afternoon I started driving after my car had been baking in the sun a few hours. I soon noticed my ass was feeling even hotter than the rest my body. I looked down and my seat heater was on max and I couldn't turn it off. I ended up pulling the fuse for it when I got home. Ever since, I've considered heated seats verrrrry optional.
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I'd also remind everyone that, pre-mass produced internal combustion engine "availability", factory owners used to BUILD living and transportation networks such as trolleys and housing SOLELY to get employees to work.
Now all this is just part of the employee's responsibility and is often not subsidized in any way in the name of the "American Dream".
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My dad bought a brand new car every nine years for his work commute:
1967 Toyota Corolla
1976 Datsun B10
1985 Honda Accord
He retired in the mid 90's and bought a Honda Pilot, which is now my sister's son's car.
He offered me the Accord in 1996 but I didn't have anywhere to keep it, I wish I had taken it.
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Now, the average car loan balance, according to the same article, is $5,210. Of course that figure appears to include people who have no car loan (no car? car paid off?) According to PIRG, 85% of all new cars sold have loans against them, up from 75% in 2009. Unfortunately, some authors conflate those figures and say that 85% of all Americans have car debt. It's not the same.
I did some digging, and Investopedia quotes TransUnion as saying that "the average auto borrower had a balance of $29,169". WTF Batman: that's five and a half times more than the figure quoted in the Yahoo article. Then I realized that the number on the Yahoo article included all the people who didn't have a car loan, whose balance was zero.
Well, if you know that the average of everyone is $5,210, and the average for the borrowers is $29,169, you can back-calculate the percentage of people with car loans.
$29k * (# of borrowers) = $5.2k * (# of all people)
29/5.2 = (all people)/(borrowers)
$29,169/$5,210 = 5.6. So there are 5.6x as many people total as people with car debt. Or 4.6 non-borrowers per borrower, which means ~22%.
Of course, there's lots of ways that number could be skewed. Families with debt on multiple cars. Families with multiple cars and no debt. Households with multiple cars, but debt on only one, etc
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What I can't find readily is a discussion of how many adults actually have car loans, versus how many have none.
I don't know if this source is particularly legitimate (sample size of only 4000), but it shows 31% of Americans have a car loan, with 15% considering getting one: https://www.finder.com/car-loans/car-loan-statistics
Consumer.gov is probably more reliable, and says 100 million Americans have an auto loan (not too far off the 31% number above): https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/blog/enhancing-public-data-on-auto-lending/
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Teammate sends me message with a snip from company email indicating that a bonus is 401(k) elibigle.
Coworker: "My understanding is that if you want the whole amount to get to your bank you need to change your 401(k) contribution"
Me: "Actually I went ahead and upped mine... would rather be taxed 0% on more of it than XX%... I hope my contribution change takes effect in time!"
Coworker: "i just dropped mine to 0 lol"
This is a company that also has an effective match of 9% (4% matching and 5% "enhanced" contribution). I have a feeling if I told them I changed my contribution from 35% to the maximum allowable of 60% they might have sh!t a brick.
My company used to email everyone, prior to bonus distribution, with allllll the contact info/instructions to make sure we could skip 401k contributions for that cycle, thus normalizing the concept. Sometimes, we would receive at least two notices for this, to make sure we wouldn't make the horrible mistake of having more tax-deferred and free money. And I would overhear plenty of people talking about making the phone call/logging into the website to make sure they did the right thing by skipping that contribution, so they would have more money to spend on Christmas presents.
. . . We have 6% match, true up, and the bonus was at the end of the year.
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I’m tired of trying to figure out how and why other people make financial decisions. Whether it’s perpetual car payments or cutting off 401k contributions at bonus time or buying unlimited toys on credit, I just don’t get it.
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Most of my life I've been under the impression that normal people didn't have car loans. I knew almost nobody who had one until I moved State-side. I recall that a vehicle loan was an acceptable thing for a very young person to have, starting out, but if a person still had a car loan at age 30 something was badly wrong and a car loan at age 40 was a sign of critically bad money management. The other day I heard someone say that "most people" have car loans. I instinctively responded with an assertion that it wasn't the case, but if there really are that many stupid, short-sighted or self-destructive people out there I might be the one in the wrong.
Has anyone looked at the demographics of car debt?
I would guess that the majority of American households do have car debt. Just drive down the street and see how many newish cars you see and assume almost all of them are financed (85% according to the figures you found). Most people really are that short-sighted - or at least are of the mindset that it's totally normal to have an auto loan most of your life, just like having a mortgage. If you ever spend an afternoon listening to Dave Ramsey, probably half or more of the calls boil down to someone is in their current (bad) financial situation because of auto debt.
My parents were always of the mindset that they bought a new car and then drove it for 5-10 years during which time they would pay it off. After it was paid off for a few years they would repeat the cycle. Typically, with a moderately-priced sedan like a Toyota Camry. I would say that's pretty typical. I knew other people who would only keep a new car for 3-5 years and then trade it in before it was even paid off. In some cases, they probably ended up with little or no equity on the trade-in and just repeated the cycle.
I had to take out a loan to buy a used minivan (~$15k) when we outgrew our car a decade or so ago. That got paid off in a couple of years and I've never had any auto debt since - just paid all cash for used vehicles ($10k, $3k, $5k). It's not fun getting a $1,000 repair bill every once in a while on a 15-25-year-old vehicle - but that's still waaaaay cheaper than a monthly payment. Alas, most people get too wrapped up in the idea that having a car break down once every few years or having to pay a $1,000 repair bill means they're totally justified to borrow $30k+ to buy a new vehicle (then another $5-10k in interest and higher comprehensive insurance) just to avoid those relatively minor problems.
My parents were similar but my grandparents had reached the point where they bought a car in cash and then made "car payments" to themselves in order to buy the next one in cash. I finally reached the point where I can do that a few years ago assuming that the market doesn't keep getting stupider and stupider. When I graduated college (for the second time) 10 years ago, the kids I was in class with were already talking about how "you'll always have a car payment" and paying one off just means it's time to buy a new one. SMH.
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And here I am agozing over the question if I should pay a 1000€ repair for my 10 year old car or buy a slightly used for for 13K, which would (mathematically) mean 100€ a month payment.
The most agonizing is of course that I don't want to do both, but as a small towner I just need one once a month and there is no car sharing at all.
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I’m tired of trying to figure out how and why other people make financial decisions. Whether it’s perpetual car payments or cutting off 401k contributions at bonus time or buying unlimited toys on credit, I just don’t get it.
How and why, you ask? Here are some easy ones:
1. People are very emotional about money. Emotions = often stupid decisions. For example, being brought up poor and being mocked as a child for lack of shoes/cars/bling often leads to really shitty spending decisions as an adult in order to psychologically compensate.
2. Money taboo. People often don't talk about this in many societies because it's a taboo subject. Leads to less overall financial education in the general population.
3. Maths is hard. Some folks just don't get it no matter how often data is presented to them. This is independent of someone's intelligence as well. One can have a great base intelligence AND education and still just not get simple math concepts like compound interest working for you or against you. Imagine folks who's IQ is below average and have no formal education at all?
4. Advertising and Marketing -companies do it because it works! Some people have a lot more natural resistance to this than others.
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I think the early 2000's were the peak of car manufacturing in terms of relative safety, power, and efficiency.
Absolutely untrue WRT safety. The safety requirements have gone up noticeably in the last 20 years, and you have a lot more electronic safety features. Electronic stability control. Backup cameras. Blind spot monitoring, improved crumple zones, AEB, etc.
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This was on my local community Facebook group. I guess it goes to show the mindset. The language makes it seem as if you are literally just swapping out a 2019 vehicle for a 2023 for no difference in price. Actually, they'll even give you $1000, so I'm sure there are people who think they made $1000 by swapping to a 2023 vehicle. Financial problems solved!!
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A coworker (who was recently asking me for financial advice) was looking despondent so I asked if everything was okay. They replied that no, the new dining room table & chairs that they just bought for $700 had 'too many legs visible' and a dark underside so they had put it up for sale (less than a week after they got it) and were just hoping to recoup anything since they couldn't be bothered to return it. They were ordering a $1200 set to replace it. I was a bit flabbergasted but somehow also amused :)
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I think the early 2000's were the peak of car manufacturing in terms of relative safety, power, and efficiency.
Absolutely untrue WRT safety. The safety requirements have gone up noticeably in the last 20 years, and you have a lot more electronic safety features. Electronic stability control. Backup cameras. Blind spot monitoring, improved crumple zones, AEB, etc.
Mixed. My late 00's car has WAY better visibility than any car I have rented recently, I dont need blind spot monitoring as I dont have blind spots. Dont need a back up camera as I can turn and look behind me. But my crumple zones are probably interior inferior.
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I think the early 2000's were the peak of car manufacturing in terms of relative safety, power, and efficiency.
Absolutely untrue WRT safety. The safety requirements have gone up noticeably in the last 20 years, and you have a lot more electronic safety features. Electronic stability control. Backup cameras. Blind spot monitoring, improved crumple zones, AEB, etc.
Mixed. My late 00's car has WAY better visibility than any car I have rented recently, I dont need blind spot monitoring as I dont have blind spots. Dont need a back up camera as I can turn and look behind me. But my crumple zones are probably interior.
Agreed on the visibility issue. I can see *everything* out the windows of my '97 sedan Even my '06 minivan has better visibility than just about anything made today.
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I think the early 2000's were the peak of car manufacturing in terms of relative safety, power, and efficiency.
Absolutely untrue WRT safety. The safety requirements have gone up noticeably in the last 20 years, and you have a lot more electronic safety features. Electronic stability control. Backup cameras. Blind spot monitoring, improved crumple zones, AEB, etc.
That is only 1/4 true. In an "old" car you don't need stability control because it's a lot smaller. You don't need cameras because you can actually look out of the windows and see something (and your view isn't blocked by other cars as it is today, I used to look through them and react to the traffic in front of the car in front of the car in front of me.)
Better crumble zones may help, but do they offset the doubled weight? Especially for those not in a car?
FYI traffic death have been rising in the US for years. Your assumption that newer cars are safer seems to be wrong.
The language makes it seem as if you are literally just swapping out a 2019 vehicle for a 2023 for no difference in price.
But how does that work? You trade for a lower priced vehicle... ah, is it the time of the loan?
Because it's short time, it runs out a lot earlier than the car is scrap? So you pay 3 times the price in years of one. (As you might guess I don't have much experience with loans lol)
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The language makes it seem as if you are literally just swapping out a 2019 vehicle for a 2023 for no difference in price.
But how does that work? You trade for a lower priced vehicle... ah, is it the time of the loan?
Because it's short time, it runs out a lot earlier than the car is scrap? So you pay 3 times the price in years of one. (As you might guess I don't have much experience with loans lol)
If you own the 2019 vehicle and pay $400 per month, you might be one payment away from owning the vehicle outright. The dealer will say, "Hey, I have this amazing deal for you. We can lower your payment to $390 per month, and give you a 2023 vehicle, AND give you $1000 cash!" Except you've just restarted your car loan again. Hopefully no one would be dumb enough to do a straight swap without any trade-in value for the 2019 car, but who knows.
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I think the early 2000's were the peak of car manufacturing in terms of relative safety, power, and efficiency.
Absolutely untrue WRT safety. The safety requirements have gone up noticeably in the last 20 years, and you have a lot more electronic safety features. Electronic stability control. Backup cameras. Blind spot monitoring, improved crumple zones, AEB, etc.
Safety requirements have gone up, that is true--they keep coming up with smaller and smaller corner cases, chasing down ever-dwindling edge cases. For example, from head-on tests to moderate overlap crashes to small overlap tests. Each incremental hike in requirements is aimed at a smaller and smaller number of fatalities, at a greater and greater cost.
I don't think I've ever heard any regulator (or pseudo regulator like IIHS) take into account the driver's ability to see out the side and rear windows. There's a reason why cars from 2018 are required to have backup cameras.
The cynic in me wants to think that IIHS *has* to perpetuate the pattern of ratcheting safety standards, otherwise they'd be out of a job. After all, the primary objective of any bureaucracy is its own survival.
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FYI traffic death have been rising in the US for years. Your assumption that newer cars are safer seems to be wrong.
Citation required.
This didn't feel right to me, and after 30s of googling, I believe it is incorrect.
Here's what I see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year
Whether by population or by vehicle-miles-traveled, auto-fatalities are on a long established (though not monotonic) downward trend.
One might quibble that there was an uptick during the pandemic, but I suspect that has more to do with pandemic driving conditions & behaviors than any sudden change in the safety of vehicles.
And at any rate, even the pandemic-era numbers are better than the early-2000s, as is being discussed here in the thread.
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A coworker (who was recently asking me for financial advice) was looking despondent so I asked if everything was okay. They replied that no, the new dining room table & chairs that they just bought for $700 had 'too many legs visible' and a dark underside so they had put it up for sale (less than a week after they got it) and were just hoping to recoup anything since they couldn't be bothered to return it. They were ordering a $1200 set to replace it. I was a bit flabbergasted but somehow also amused :)
Please please please tell us you have been holding this since April 1st. Too many legs, one can at least almost see someone making an argument against (not really, I’m stretching). But dark underside? No path in my mind.
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I think the early 2000's were the peak of car manufacturing in terms of relative safety, power, and efficiency.
Absolutely untrue WRT safety. The safety requirements have gone up noticeably in the last 20 years, and you have a lot more electronic safety features. Electronic stability control. Backup cameras. Blind spot monitoring, improved crumple zones, AEB, etc.
That's why I said relative safety. Generally, airbags. The cars I grew up driving from the 60's and 70's ad 80's were deathtraps.
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A coworker (who was recently asking me for financial advice) was looking despondent so I asked if everything was okay. They replied that no, the new dining room table & chairs that they just bought for $700 had 'too many legs visible' and a dark underside so they had put it up for sale (less than a week after they got it) and were just hoping to recoup anything since they couldn't be bothered to return it. They were ordering a $1200 set to replace it. I was a bit flabbergasted but somehow also amused :)
Please please please tell us you have been holding this since April 1st. Too many legs, one can at least almost see someone making an argument against (not really, I’m stretching). But dark underside? No path in my mind.
Maybe they crawl under the table and give blow jobs to guests? And they like the happy vibe of blonde wood instead of dark wood?
That's all I can come up with!
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FYI traffic death have been rising in the US for years. Your assumption that newer cars are safer seems to be wrong.
Citation required.
This didn't feel right to me, and after 30s of googling, I believe it is incorrect.
Here's what I see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year
Whether by population or by vehicle-miles-traveled, auto-fatalities are on a long established (though not monotonic) downward trend.
One might quibble that there was an uptick during the pandemic, but I suspect that has more to do with pandemic driving conditions & behaviors than any sudden change in the safety of vehicles.
And at any rate, even the pandemic-era numbers are better than the early-2000s, as is being discussed here in the thread.
Okay, that's true, but I was speaking about the last years, when those SUVs and super sized trucks spread which I deem unsafe.
Fatalaties in 2016 have been highest since 2008 and 2021 was even higher and a year back more. (btw. 2008 and 2009 have a dramatical decrease, likely that is the generation of saver cars.)
Meanwhile the years with reduced numbers have fallen less than before.
Looking at it with chartist eyes, this is clearly a W-formation indicating a trend reversal towards increase.
More important the number of pedestrian death has been rising since 2008, as can you see here:
https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/pedestrians
So yes, maybe cars are still getting safer for people in them, but a lot unsafer for people outside them.
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So yes, maybe cars are still getting safer for people in them, but a lot unsafer for people outside them.
The cars are fine. It is the large SUVs and trucks that are killing pedestrians. They are so high the drivers don't see people well (and children not at all). And yes, there are a lot more of those on the roads.
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I was never a fan of heated seats, I always thought that I lived in a climate too warm for them anyway. But I get a lot of rental cars on work trips and a colleague said they used them after a long day standing to make their back feel better. I tried it and sure enough it’s like sitting in a warm jacuzzi, very soothing - but not enough for me to sell the Prius haha. I didn’t know about the warming seat covers, maybe I’ll look into it.
The only other modern feature I really like is adaptive cruise control. Makes long road trips on an interstate very easy.
As someone who is in the weather for heated seats, what I love even more is my heated steering wheel, it came with the seats and I’m thankful. I also like the adaptive cruise that I’ve had on some rentals but my 2015 has 50,000 miles on it so not any time soon.
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A coworker (who was recently asking me for financial advice) was looking despondent so I asked if everything was okay. They replied that no, the new dining room table & chairs that they just bought for $700 had 'too many legs visible' and a dark underside so they had put it up for sale (less than a week after they got it) and were just hoping to recoup anything since they couldn't be bothered to return it. They were ordering a $1200 set to replace it. I was a bit flabbergasted but somehow also amused :)
Please please please tell us you have been holding this since April 1st. Too many legs, one can at least almost see someone making an argument against (not really, I’m stretching). But dark underside? No path in my mind.
The conversation was absurd but at least my coworker recognized it! They managed to sell the overly leggy chairs & table at a minimal loss financially so we will see what the next impulse purchase is :)
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[quote author=RWTL
The same people who marvel at his daily salad (once he developed some food intolerances, he even brought it on the rare occasion everyone would get together lunch) or his biking to work attribute his non dependence on his job entirely to not having kids.
Yes, this happens to me too. Whenever I say things like we will do a new garden or have the kitchen renovated one of my colleagues says "yeah, yo do not have kids". While this is true, we are also in control of our money and save nefore we spend. I hate it but never say anything. Also the comment is not nice because you never know why someone has no children....
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Coworker at my factory job who started fairly recently (approximately 3 months ago) just bought a 2020 Megacab Dodge Cummins "Laramie Edition" (no idea what that last part means other than presumably more $$$). The sticker price was somewhere around $70,000 from what I understand, which is about $10,000 more than his yearly salary. Of course, he'll end up paying closer to $100k after interest, since he financed nearly all of the purchase price (minus what he got for trading in his previous truck, a 2009 Dodge Ram 1500). I wish the clown behavior ended there, but it gets worse.
Just yesterday I noticed a new sticker on his rear windshield, with an Instagram name. I checked it out to see for myself, and it's an entire Instagram page devoted to showing off his various wheeled financial blunders. Both aforementioned trucks, plus a 2010 mustang and some kind of sports bike. If the photo gallery of his depreciating debt-mobiles wasn't bad enough, he's also added super cringey text to each of the image posts. A couple notable examples:
Picture of new truck with text: "All my exs really fumbled a bag" (This is Gen Z speak for: "All my exs really missed a chance to be with a dude who has lots of money)
Picture of old truck, mustang, and motorcycle with text: "Got the trifecta at the age of 20 and I'm still working towards more goals harder than some people in their 40s" - Right mindset, completely wrong priorities.
Barely a week after he bought the new truck he was complaining in the break room about some sensor needing replaced. Apparently it's a $4,000 part that isn't strictly necessary, but simply removing it would void his warranty. He doesn't have $4,000 to replace the part, and so is considering whether voiding his warranty is a preferable alternative to trying to save $4,000
His situation makes me want to laugh and cry. I really hope he comes to his senses and gets his priorities straight. He's still quite young, but he's already got about six figures of debt without even owning a house. And all this while working an entry level factory position he's had for only a few months.
Update to this story: I just found out yesterday that this coworker just paid $1400 to have a train horn installed on his truck. A literal train horn. Like, he hit it in the parking lot after work to show it off and it literally sounded like a freight train was driving past.
He has been driving like an absolute idiot/asshole as well. Always has his mirrors in tow mode despite the fact that he is never actually towing anything, and takes every turn absurdly wide, as if he's driving an 18 wheeler. I watched him make the turn out of the parking lot a few days ago, and he didn't start cutting his wheel until his tailgate was in line with the curb. He was fully between the lines in the oncoming lane at the apex of the turn. A few coworkers were mocking him behind his back the other day because they saw him make a three point turn pulling out of his parking space.
He continues to boast on social media about how great he's doing financially, as evidenced by his super badass totally not overcompensating for anything truck. He also has a license plate cover that says "Daddy's Money, But I'm Daddy" (he doesn't have kids)
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I can sympathize with him thinking he achieved some sort of ' trifecta ' of cool vehicles. -- Except that they aren't paid off...
Not sure why he's advertising to be someone's 'sugar daddy' with the license plate frame, while simultaneously denigrating previous girlfriends on their supposed stupidity elsewhere ??
The truck doesn't Need any sensor currently. If it did, he could use the 7 yr+ 100K mile Warranty the Dodge/ Cummins engine is sold with, to have the part replaced for Free. He Wants to modify something in the emissions / fuel curve / boost pressure arena , so it can either be faster, or more likely so he can "Roll-Coal " and leave a big cloud of diesel smoke, when he floors the fuel pedal.
What kind of lazy trifecta owning bad-ass wanna-be hotrodder can't attempt to install his own horn and save a few hundred $$ on the train noises ??
Have someone ask him what he figures his auto insurance is going to go up to - once he causes his 1st [?] wreck that ruins another car because of his bad driving.
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I can sympathize with him thinking he achieved some sort of ' trifecta ' of cool vehicles. -- Except that they aren't paid off...
Not sure why he's advertising to be someone's 'sugar daddy' with the license plate frame, while simultaneously denigrating previous girlfriends on their supposed stupidity elsewhere ??
The truck doesn't Need any sensor currently. If it did, he could use the 7 yr+ 100K mile Warranty the Dodge/ Cummins engine is sold with, to have the part replaced for Free. He Wants to modify something in the emissions / fuel curve / boost pressure arena , so it can either be faster, or more likely so he can "Roll-Coal " and leave a big cloud of diesel smoke, when he floors the fuel pedal.
What kind of lazy trifecta owning bad-ass wanna-be hotrodder can't attempt to install his own horn and save a few hundred $$ on the train noises ??
Have someone ask him what he figures his auto insurance is going to go up to - once he causes his 1st [?] wreck that ruins another car because of his bad driving.
He pretty clearly doesn't actually know the first thing about vehicles, so I'm not at all surprised he didn't try to DIY the train horn. So far (that I know of) he has paid for new wheels/tires (big rims, low profile tires), window tint, and now the horn, all of which he had done at a shop. And not just any shop, he goes to shops that "specialize" in modifying trucks. Because you know, clearly a regular mechanic wouldn't know the first thing about installing new wheels, or applying window tint.
The jab at his ex was that she was foolish to break up with him, because now she is missing out on being in a relationship with such a clearly wealthy, successful, well-endowed dude.
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My boss replaced her 7 year old car because the check engine light came on and she and her husband couldn't fix it themselves. I can respect going the DIY route initially. Sometimes cars have trivial problems, like a bad gas cap, that can cause check engines lights. I'd feel silly spending $150 on a diagnostic fee to find out I needed a $5 part to fix it. If the easy DIY stuff doesn't work, take it to a mechanic to get it fixed for real. It might be a less obvious cheap fix or it might be $1,000. That's still way less expensive and wasteful than buying a new car.
There seems to be this society wide bad logic that it's better to put money into a new car than repair your current one. Take out a 7 year auto loan and spend $35,000 to avoid spending $2,000. 😑
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Update to this story: I just found out yesterday that this coworker just paid $1400 to have a train horn installed on his truck. A literal train horn.
I am not if I should count this as for or against him getting a proper vehicle.
Anyway, maybe I should be getting more of those autozone stocks.
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Update to this story: I just found out yesterday that this coworker just paid $1400 to have a train horn installed on his truck. A literal train horn. Like, he hit it in the parking lot after work to show it off and it literally sounded like a freight train was driving past.
Not sure but if you got me on the right day I might spend 1400$ for a train horn on my single speed bicycle. I live in an area with actual trains and if they need to toot while crossing the road I think it only right I that I toot when crossing the tracks, or a blind intersection.
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Update to this story: I just found out yesterday that this coworker just paid $1400 to have a train horn installed on his truck. A literal train horn. Like, he hit it in the parking lot after work to show it off and it literally sounded like a freight train was driving past.
Not sure but if you got me on the right day I might spend 1400$ for a train horn on my single speed bicycle. I live in an area with actual trains and if they need to toot while crossing the road I think it only right I that I toot when crossing the tracks, or a blind intersection.
As the world as she does, I just got this on twitter:
https://twitter.com/JohannGruen/status/1655915873197076482
Translation:
Why are you photographing this car?
bike: You are on the bike path.
car: The car is broken.
bike: Then leave it on the pavement. It has 4 lanes.
car: I've been standing there for 20 minutes. What do you think the honking sounded like?!
and now people are discussing that the problem must be the car horn that is missing.
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A few months ago I mentioned a coworker who drives an F-250 to work, because their family is involved in racing cars and motorcycles and they need something hefty to tow the trailer.
Last week, her truck was in the shop for something, so she drove her husband's truck--an F-350. Even bigger and more expensive and gas-guzzlier. I can imagine what their fuel bills are like...
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A few months ago I mentioned a coworker who drives an F-250 to work, because their family is involved in racing cars and motorcycles and they need something hefty to tow the trailer.
Last week, her truck was in the shop for something, so she drove her husband's truck--an F-350. Even bigger and more expensive and gas-guzzlier. I can imagine what their fuel bills are like...
That's a nice car to drive your work crew to pick strawberries, since you can seat 6 and carry all the strawberries you pick in a day.
Less nice to drive 1 person to work lol.
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My boss replaced her 7 year old car because the check engine light came on and she and her husband couldn't fix it themselves. I can respect going the DIY route initially. Sometimes cars have trivial problems, like a bad gas cap, that can cause check engines lights. I'd feel silly spending $150 on a diagnostic fee to find out I needed a $5 part to fix it. If the easy DIY stuff doesn't work, take it to a mechanic to get it fixed for real. It might be a less obvious cheap fix or it might be $1,000. That's still way less expensive and wasteful than buying a new car.
There seems to be this society wide bad logic that it's better to put money into a new car than repair your current one. Take out a 7 year auto loan and spend $35,000 to avoid spending $2,000. 😑
I don't know if this is the case everywhere, but the AutoZones and Advanced Auto Parts near where I live will read check engine codes for free. Then once you have the code you can just type it into google along with the make and model of your car, and you'll probably get a list of all the things that could possibly throw that code.
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My boss replaced her 7 year old car because the check engine light came on and she and her husband couldn't fix it themselves. I can respect going the DIY route initially. Sometimes cars have trivial problems, like a bad gas cap, that can cause check engines lights. I'd feel silly spending $150 on a diagnostic fee to find out I needed a $5 part to fix it. If the easy DIY stuff doesn't work, take it to a mechanic to get it fixed for real. It might be a less obvious cheap fix or it might be $1,000. That's still way less expensive and wasteful than buying a new car.
There seems to be this society wide bad logic that it's better to put money into a new car than repair your current one. Take out a 7 year auto loan and spend $35,000 to avoid spending $2,000. 😑
I don't know if this is the case everywhere, but the AutoZones and Advanced Auto Parts near where I live will read check engine codes for free. Then once you have the code you can just type it into google along with the make and model of your car, and you'll probably get a list of all the things that could possibly throw that code.
My bosses husband actually did go to AutoZone to get the free scan, but the fixes they tried based on the codes it returned didn't work. The light would turn off, then come back.
Whatever was going on with the old car probably needed some deeper troubleshooting than what AutoZone can offer. My issue is they didn't even try going any deeper and went straight to a new car.
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My boss replaced her 7 year old car because the check engine light came on and she and her husband couldn't fix it themselves. I can respect going the DIY route initially. Sometimes cars have trivial problems, like a bad gas cap, that can cause check engines lights. I'd feel silly spending $150 on a diagnostic fee to find out I needed a $5 part to fix it. If the easy DIY stuff doesn't work, take it to a mechanic to get it fixed for real. It might be a less obvious cheap fix or it might be $1,000. That's still way less expensive and wasteful than buying a new car.
There seems to be this society wide bad logic that it's better to put money into a new car than repair your current one. Take out a 7 year auto loan and spend $35,000 to avoid spending $2,000. 😑
I don't know if this is the case everywhere, but the AutoZones and Advanced Auto Parts near where I live will read check engine codes for free. Then once you have the code you can just type it into google along with the make and model of your car, and you'll probably get a list of all the things that could possibly throw that code.
My bosses husband actually did go to AutoZone to get the free scan, but the fixes they tried based on the codes it returned didn't work. The light would turn off, then come back.
Whatever was going on with the old car probably needed some deeper troubleshooting than what AutoZone can offer. My issue is they didn't even try going any deeper and went straight to a new car.
Sometimes the codes can be misleading, especially when there are interdependent elements being tracked. In my case, I had an O2 sensor go bad --but the one that was throwing a code is actually dependent on another one upstream of it. It's apparently very common for people to replace the downstream sensor, only to find out that the problem is actually in the upstream one. (IIRC I wound having both replaced.)
Aside from auto parts stores, you can also get your own code reader fairly cheaply. After that incident, I bought one of these (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01G5EA74I/), and it's come in handy a few times since.
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Teammate sends me message with a snip from company email indicating that a bonus is 401(k) elibigle.
Coworker: "My understanding is that if you want the whole amount to get to your bank you need to change your 401(k) contribution"
Me: "Actually I went ahead and upped mine... would rather be taxed 0% on more of it than XX%... I hope my contribution change takes effect in time!"
Coworker: "i just dropped mine to 0 lol"
This is a company that also has an effective match of 9% (4% matching and 5% "enhanced" contribution). I have a feeling if I told them I changed my contribution from 35% to the maximum allowable of 60% they might have sh!t a brick.
My company used to email everyone, prior to bonus distribution, with allllll the contact info/instructions to make sure we could skip 401k contributions for that cycle, thus normalizing the concept. Sometimes, we would receive at least two notices for this, to make sure we wouldn't make the horrible mistake of having more tax-deferred and free money. And I would overhear plenty of people talking about making the phone call/logging into the website to make sure they did the right thing by skipping that contribution, so they would have more money to spend on Christmas presents.
. . . We have 6% match, true up, and the bonus was at the end of the year.
My company on the other hand makes it quite clear that if you do not contribute to 401k out of bonus, you will not get any match on your bonus. They also include free financial planning as part of their benefits package.
That doesn't stop some of my coworkers from being idiots about money. One of them mentioned the other day how he stopped putting money into his 401k last year because he "couldn't stand watching how his money was going down in the Biden market". Same guy is a perpetual renter of large houses and says he'll never retire because he won't be able to afford to. I've not asked, but from context and conversation, I'd guess he's late 50's. At least he seems satisfied with his job, so maybe he's just so used to this way of life that he can't envision anything else.
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One of them mentioned the other day how he stopped putting money into his 401k last year because he "couldn't stand watching how his money was going down in the Biden market".
When I hear "<POTUS> market up/down" from a mouth breather, I know the person is a Fox/CNN/HLN/etc suckling being spoonfed. I just tune out the conversation and get glazed eyes (uncanny ability to say I don't give a crap without saying I don't give a poop) or walk away.
Sadly I'll be resuming visits to my customer workplace in the near future and be subjected to stupid aural torture of this kind. I haven't contributed to this thread in a while, but I will when I hear shit in open-sitting/cube land.
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While we're on the subject of 401ks- we recently had an all hands meeting at work. HR had a few minutes in the spotlight discussing benefits. They stressed the importance of contributing to your 401k to get the full match, but (and I quote) "it's really easy to reduce or pause your contributions for a bit if you need some quick cash for a trip to Vegas with the guys!"
:facepalm
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While we're on the subject of 401ks- we recently had an all hands meeting at work. HR had a few minutes in the spotlight discussing benefits. They stressed the importance of contributing to your 401k to get the full match, but (and I quote) "it's really easy to reduce or pause your contributions for a bit if you need some quick cash for a trip to Vegas with the guys!"
:facepalm
ouch, just ouch. That is really unfortunate
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While we're on the subject of 401ks- we recently had an all hands meeting at work. HR had a few minutes in the spotlight discussing benefits. They stressed the importance of contributing to your 401k to get the full match, but (and I quote) "it's really easy to reduce or pause your contributions for a bit if you need some quick cash for a trip to Vegas with the guys!"
:facepalm
ouch, just ouch. That is really unfortunate
I know right, like if you get two pay checks a month that quick cash is only 1k$. That will maybe cover the limo to the club and a bottom shelf bottle of champagne.
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While we're on the subject of 401ks- we recently had an all hands meeting at work. HR had a few minutes in the spotlight discussing benefits. They stressed the importance of contributing to your 401k to get the full match, but (and I quote) "it's really easy to reduce or pause your contributions for a bit if you need some quick cash for a trip to Vegas with the guys!"
:facepalm
I can just imagine "THE LOOK" I'd have gotten if I chimed in with "Or if you realize that the 50% of your bonus that you put in will make you max out earlier in the year and you want to reduce to spread your contributions evenly all the way through December"
(The reason I know how easy it is to make changes mid year is because I've done exactly that, by the way. )
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My company's yearly bonus always pays out the Wednesday before Black Friday. Our paychecks normally go out on Fridays, but apparently they send the bonuses out early so people will have money for Black Friday shopping.
One year there was a screwup with payroll and the bonus ended up not going out until the following week, after the holiday. Several people were irate that they didn't have any money to go Black Friday shopping with. This was before I found the FIRE movement but even then I remember thinking that those people probably shouldn't have been going Black Friday shopping to begin with if they were so strapped for cash.
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My company's yearly bonus always pays out the Wednesday before Black Friday. Our paychecks normally go out on Fridays, but apparently they send the bonuses out early so people will have money for Black Friday shopping.
One year there was a screwup with payroll and the bonus ended up not going out until the following week, after the holiday. Several people were irate that they didn't have any money to go Black Friday shopping with. This was before I found the FIRE movement but even then I remember thinking that those people probably shouldn't have been going Black Friday shopping to begin with if they were so strapped for cash.
Ouch. I mean, at least they weren't running up credit cards? Maybe? Silver lining? Of course the credit cards could have been maxed out already...
My job was switching pay systems and we were going to be going three weeks between pay checks instead of two (supposedly they had been paying us on the assumption we'd work the second week and now they were waiting until we worked it to pay). I thought it was a bit sleazy but whatever. They gave us six months warning, zero interest loans, all these meetings to prep us. People were still freaking out. I didn't get it.
Turns out I should have paid more attention because I was in Peru for two weeks during the turnover and I couldn't remember if the money would hit my account in time for rent. I ended up pulling money out of savings and paying before I left. Definitely did not want an overdraft issue because of spotty international banking issues.
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Ouch. I mean, at least they weren't running up credit cards? Maybe? Silver lining? Of course the credit cards could have been maxed out already...
My job was switching pay systems and we were going to be going three weeks between pay checks instead of two (supposedly they had been paying us on the assumption we'd work the second week and now they were waiting until we worked it to pay). I thought it was a bit sleazy but whatever. They gave us six months warning, zero interest loans, all these meetings to prep us. People were still freaking out. I didn't get it.
Turns out I should have paid more attention because I was in Peru for two weeks during the turnover and I couldn't remember if the money would hit my account in time for rent. I ended up pulling money out of savings and paying before I left. Definitely did not want an overdraft issue because of spotty international banking issues.
My former job did this. The meetings went so poorly they pushed it back an additional 3 months. It was nice for me because one of the options the offered was to cash out two weeks of vacation for a pay out. I didn't need the money, but I was maxed out on vacation with no hope to use more than a few days here and there (There are multiple reasons it's a former job) and took the payout and smiled all the way to the bank. They also did an interest free loan option. And a couple others I do not recall.
I have never seen people so upset about something they had ample time to plan for and multiple options to smooth out any rough issues. Also we went from 24 pays to 26, meaning each paycheck was just slightly smaller. The amount of people who thought that meant they were being given a pay cut... My co-workers, in general, were decently intelligent people, but man money make people stupid.
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My company's yearly bonus always pays out the Wednesday before Black Friday. Our paychecks normally go out on Fridays, but apparently they send the bonuses out early so people will have money for Black Friday shopping.
One year there was a screwup with payroll and the bonus ended up not going out until the following week, after the holiday. Several people were irate that they didn't have any money to go Black Friday shopping with. This was before I found the FIRE movement but even then I remember thinking that those people probably shouldn't have been going Black Friday shopping to begin with if they were so strapped for cash.
Ouch. I mean, at least they weren't running up credit cards? Maybe? Silver lining? Of course the credit cards could have been maxed out already...
My job was switching pay systems and we were going to be going three weeks between pay checks instead of two (supposedly they had been paying us on the assumption we'd work the second week and now they were waiting until we worked it to pay). I thought it was a bit sleazy but whatever. They gave us six months warning, zero interest loans, all these meetings to prep us. People were still freaking out. I didn't get it.
Turns out I should have paid more attention because I was in Peru for two weeks during the turnover and I couldn't remember if the money would hit my account in time for rent. I ended up pulling money out of savings and paying before I left. Definitely did not want an overdraft issue because of spotty international banking issues.
From what I've seen, most people in my area don't use credit cards. I live in a very low income area where a lot of people would probably have a hard time getting approved for a credit card in the first place. I almost never see people using credit cards in public, only cash or debit cards.
A few times when paying for stuff with my Chase Sapphire Preferred card, I've had cashiers remark that they were caught off guard by how "heavy" the card is, and that they've never seen a card like it. It's made of a very thin metal, like most higher end credit cards. The fact that a cashier who probably handles over a hundred cards per day has never seen a metal card before says a lot about the area, I think.
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I finally have a really juicy overheard at work - a guy working for our company’s client in a facilities maintenance position out of the blue told me “I ended up buying a brand new Dodge Ram, it was only $55k, Ford wanted close to $85k for the same trim level of truck.” I mumbled something like ”that’s a pretty big difference.” and he replied with “yeah, so I took that difference and got two new jet skis!”.
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If his Boss only wants to pay him 1 dollar per hour, does he also take it and takes the rest for a loan?
two new jetskis means he already has "old" ones?
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I finally have a really juicy overheard at work - a guy working for our company’s client in a facilities maintenance position out of the blue told me “I ended up buying a brand new Dodge Ram, it was only $55k, Ford wanted close to $85k for the same trim level of truck.” I mumbled something like ”that’s a pretty big difference.” and he replied with “yeah, so I took that difference and got two new jet skis!”.
What do you think the odds are that all 3 are financed?
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I finally have a really juicy overheard at work - a guy working for our company’s client in a facilities maintenance position out of the blue told me “I ended up buying a brand new Dodge Ram, it was only $55k, Ford wanted close to $85k for the same trim level of truck.” I mumbled something like ”that’s a pretty big difference.” and he replied with “yeah, so I took that difference and got two new jet skis!”.
What do you think the odds are that all 3 are financed?
Oh shit, I didn't even think about it (Mustachian lol) but yeah, 80% propability at least.
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I finally have a really juicy overheard at work - a guy working for our company’s client in a facilities maintenance position out of the blue told me “I ended up buying a brand new Dodge Ram, it was only $55k, Ford wanted close to $85k for the same trim level of truck.” I mumbled something like ”that’s a pretty big difference.” and he replied with “yeah, so I took that difference and got two new jet skis!”.
What do you think the odds are that all 3 are financed?
Odds are almost certainly 100%.
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I finally have a really juicy overheard at work - a guy working for our company’s client in a facilities maintenance position out of the blue told me “I ended up buying a brand new Dodge Ram, it was only $55k, Ford wanted close to $85k for the same trim level of truck.” I mumbled something like ”that’s a pretty big difference.” and he replied with “yeah, so I took that difference and got two new jet skis!”.
What do you think the odds are that all 3 are financed?
Odds are almost certainly 100%.
Did he also buy a trailer to haul them jetskis?
I don't even want to know what the loan rates are for powersports equipment. I'm too lazy to search for that.
Some people enjoy being in debt, it gives them validation so they can bitch about Big Banks and Bailouts.
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Did he also buy a trailer to haul them jetskis?
I don't even want to know what the loan rates are for powersports equipment. I'm too lazy to search for that.
As someone who paid cash for two PWCs and a double trailer, I can answer that.
Financing is typically for 4-7 (!!) years, at ~ 5-7%.
Four stroke PWCs range in price from $7k-$20k plus. Double trailers are ~ $2500.
I paid ~ $15k for my ski, and DH paid ~ $13k for his 7 years ago. So figure on $30k for two skis and a trailer, at 5% for 7 years:
https://www.yamahaboats.com/special-offers/
With 10% down, and $27k financed at 5% for 84 months, the payments are $382 per month.
;)
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Did he also buy a trailer to haul them jetskis?
I don't even want to know what the loan rates are for powersports equipment. I'm too lazy to search for that.
With 10% down, and $27k financed at 5% for 84 months, the payments are $382 per month.
;)
I think you mean the payments are only $382 per month ;)
With such an affordable monthly payment, how can you afford not to have two jetskis?
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Sometimes I wonder if I’m not living my best life because I haven’t financed gas guzzling toy boats. </sarcasm>
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Sometimes I wonder if I’m not living my best life because I haven’t financed gas guzzling toy boats. </sarcasm>
Jet skis have been 4-stroke for 20+ years now. A full day of riding for 10 gallons of gas seems like a bargain to me! (And yes, as noted above, we paid cash). ;)
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Seven. Years.
Damn!
I admit to admiring the PWC's that are set up for serious ocean fishing, but I wouldn't pay that much just for fun. Fun, with fish? Maybe 😋
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I finally have a really juicy overheard at work - a guy working for our company’s client in a facilities maintenance position out of the blue told me “I ended up buying a brand new Dodge Ram, it was only $55k, Ford wanted close to $85k for the same trim level of truck.” I mumbled something like ”that’s a pretty big difference.” and he replied with “yeah, so I took that difference and got two new jet skis!”.
What do you think the odds are that all 3 are financed?
Odds are almost certainly 100%.
Did he also buy a trailer to haul them jetskis?
I don't even want to know what the loan rates are for powersports equipment. I'm too lazy to search for that.
Some people enjoy being in debt, it gives them validation so they can bitch about Big Banks and Bailouts.
I remember all the people that had all the toys (on credit) before the big 2008/2009 crash. Many of these good people also ended up walking away from their homes ( mortgages ) in the aftermath of that. Unfortunately, I'm seeing a lot of the same all the toys (on credit) behavior theses days. Not a good sign.
We have none of the toys...and it feels great.
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We have none of the toys...and it feels great.
I was just commenting yesterday about being SO GLAD we don't have an RV like everyone else in my area. There are several HUGE RV storage lots around here, always full of unused RVs.
(We do have other toys, but nothing that has to be stored somewhere else.)
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We have none of the toys...and it feels great.
I was just commenting yesterday about being SO GLAD we don't have an RV like everyone else in my area. There are several HUGE RV storage lots around here, always full of unused RVs.
(We do have other toys, but nothing that has to be stored somewhere else.)
I'm a member of a Facebook group for local military moves and there are posts at least weekly from people looking for places to park/store their RVs, Fifth Wheels, etc. Because I'm curious, I occasionally search and can figure out a lot about these people based on other posts in the group, and many of them are clearly fairly low income. And the responses usually contain several that say, "storing an RV in this [HCOL] area is very expensive. We sold ours." More often than not, the person posts that they would never considering selling as "we love it so much." It's crazy how many people have these expensive RVs, and especially those who post concurrently that they are looking for a home but everything is out of their budget. Um, sell the RV, ditch the storage fees, and maybe you'll be able to buy or rent something that doesn't have an hour commute?
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I remember all the people that had all the toys (on credit) before the big 2008/2009 crash. Many of these good people also ended up walking away from their homes ( mortgages ) in the aftermath of that. Unfortunately, I'm seeing a lot of the same all the toys (on credit) behavior theses days. Not a good sign.
We have none of the toys...and it feels great.
Yes, one of our BFFs was one of those people. RV, jetskis, motorcycles, etc. A lot of it was "we can afford the monthly payment" thinking, for sure. Rumor had it that they had *3* mortgages on their townhome.
He quit his job in a snit, thinking he'd get another one easily. And then....2009. So he was unemployed for several years. They had to short-sell the house, and the RV and jetskis were repo'd, and he was incredulous that they still owed money, even when they'd given them back to the dealer. The idea that a depreciated asset meant that they still paid for something they no longer "owned" was startling to them.
They ended up buying a double-wide mobile home from a mutual friend, who financed it for them, at a rate of ~ 7% given their crappy credit scores. (They were so bad that most apartment complexes wouldn't rent to them). About a year later, he got a Federal job in another part of the state. He moved, she stayed, and negotiated a transfer to his town, while getting ready to sell the mobile home. They were *incredibly* lucky, and were able to sell the mobile home for $10k more than they'd purchased it, and paid off the mutual friend.
Now? They've been in the new town for 7 years, bought another house, and seem to have learned their lesson...a bit. They don't finance quite as much, but they have no problem supporting kids who are 30+ and making six figures, but who have tax debt, and DoorDash 3x per day. They spend way too much on cars, IMO.
At some point? Not our problem.
We have some toys, but we've paid cash for them. We have a 15 year mortgage at 2.625%. We have been saving for retirement since we were 25. We bought our first house at age 27/29 and spent years rehabbing it, and then sold it after 20 years, so we could move up in house. We DIY a ridiculous amount of stuff. We live on a written budget. DH semi-retired at age 57; I will retire at age 60.
So you don't need to be so self-congratulatory about having no toys - there are those of us out there who go about getting them in ways that is not financially ruinous.
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We have none of the toys...and it feels great.
I was just commenting yesterday about being SO GLAD we don't have an RV like everyone else in my area. There are several HUGE RV storage lots around here, always full of unused RVs.
(We do have other toys, but nothing that has to be stored somewhere else.)
I feel the same way about boats. Around here it is fancy fishing boats. Most people end up using them FAR less than anticipated and end up "selling" ( i.e. - practically giving them away ) at some point.
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I remember all the people that had all the toys (on credit) before the big 2008/2009 crash. Many of these good people also ended up walking away from their homes ( mortgages ) in the aftermath of that. Unfortunately, I'm seeing a lot of the same all the toys (on credit) behavior theses days. Not a good sign.
We have none of the toys...and it feels great.
Yes, one of our BFFs was one of those people. RV, jetskis, motorcycles, etc. A lot of it was "we can afford the monthly payment" thinking, for sure. Rumor had it that they had *3* mortgages on their townhome.
He quit his job in a snit, thinking he'd get another one easily. And then....2009. So he was unemployed for several years. They had to short-sell the house, and the RV and jetskis were repo'd, and he was incredulous that they still owed money, even when they'd given them back to the dealer. The idea that a depreciated asset meant that they still paid for something they no longer "owned" was startling to them.
They ended up buying a double-wide mobile home from a mutual friend, who financed it for them, at a rate of ~ 7% given their crappy credit scores. (They were so bad that most apartment complexes wouldn't rent to them). About a year later, he got a Federal job in another part of the state. He moved, she stayed, and negotiated a transfer to his town, while getting ready to sell the mobile home. They were *incredibly* lucky, and were able to sell the mobile home for $10k more than they'd purchased it, and paid off the mutual friend.
Now? They've been in the new town for 7 years, bought another house, and seem to have learned their lesson...a bit. They don't finance quite as much, but they have no problem supporting kids who are 30+ and making six figures, but who have tax debt, and DoorDash 3x per day. They spend way too much on cars, IMO.
At some point? Not our problem.
We have some toys, but we've paid cash for them. We have a 15 year mortgage at 2.625%. We have been saving for retirement since we were 25. We bought our first house at age 27/29 and spent years rehabbing it, and then sold it after 20 years, so we could move up in house. We DIY a ridiculous amount of stuff. We live on a written budget. DH semi-retired at age 57; I will retire at age 60.
So you don't need to be so self-congratulatory about having no toys - there are those of us out there who go about getting them in ways that is not financially ruinous.
Haha you got me. However, the LARGE majority of people around here clearly can't afford them and are living like your BFFs. There will always be a minority that can afford all the toys, of course. But yea... I'm not buying that anywhere near the majority can. Sorry I don't have your permission to be self-congratulatory...haha.
The thing that is really disappointing is that people didn't seem to learn anything during 2008-2009. And I guess younger folks didn't have much skin in the game then...so they don't really understand. I think the biggest takeaway though is how dismally bad most are with their finances and don't have a dime save for retirement, yet have all the toys. Just extremely concerning.
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I finally have a really juicy overheard at work - a guy working for our company’s client in a facilities maintenance position out of the blue told me “I ended up buying a brand new Dodge Ram, it was only $55k, Ford wanted close to $85k for the same trim level of truck.” I mumbled something like ”that’s a pretty big difference.” and he replied with “yeah, so I took that difference and got two new jet skis!”.
What do you think the odds are that all 3 are financed?
Odds are almost certainly 100%.
Did he also buy a trailer to haul them jetskis?
I don't even want to know what the loan rates are for powersports equipment. I'm too lazy to search for that.
Some people enjoy being in debt, it gives them validation so they can bitch about Big Banks and Bailouts.
I remember all the people that had all the toys (on credit) before the big 2008/2009 crash. Many of these good people also ended up walking away from their homes ( mortgages ) in the aftermath of that. Unfortunately, I'm seeing a lot of the same all the toys (on credit) behavior theses days. Not a good sign.
We have none of the toys...and it feels great.
I remember seeing all the toys on the repo lot of the credit union in 2008. I'm kind of hoping some kind of double jetski trailer becomes available from that lot soon that's not too expensive. This may belong on the thread about stupidest thing I'm lusting after, but I want a small trailer to haul kayaks and I think that would be a good size for what I want. Not the monstrosity that my brother is trying to sell me, but something that will haul like 4 boats. I have a 4x6 utility trailer that will work for four, but is a pain to load.
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I finally have a really juicy overheard at work - a guy working for our company’s client in a facilities maintenance position out of the blue told me “I ended up buying a brand new Dodge Ram, it was only $55k, Ford wanted close to $85k for the same trim level of truck.” I mumbled something like ”that’s a pretty big difference.” and he replied with “yeah, so I took that difference and got two new jet skis!”.
What do you think the odds are that all 3 are financed?
Odds are almost certainly 100%.
Did he also buy a trailer to haul them jetskis?
I don't even want to know what the loan rates are for powersports equipment. I'm too lazy to search for that.
Some people enjoy being in debt, it gives them validation so they can bitch about Big Banks and Bailouts.
I remember all the people that had all the toys (on credit) before the big 2008/2009 crash. Many of these good people also ended up walking away from their homes ( mortgages ) in the aftermath of that. Unfortunately, I'm seeing a lot of the same all the toys (on credit) behavior theses days. Not a good sign.
We have none of the toys...and it feels great.
I remember seeing all the toys on the repo lot of the credit union in 2008. I'm kind of hoping some kind of double jetski trailer becomes available from that lot soon that's not too expensive. This may belong on the thread about stupidest thing I'm lusting after, but I want a small trailer to haul kayaks and I think that would be a good size for what I want. Not the monstrosity that my brother is trying to sell me, but something that will haul like 4 boats. I have a 4x6 utility trailer that will work for four, but is a pain to load.
Can you build some racks for the 4x6 trailer that help with that? I just picked up a 4x6 trailer too, a really nice utility style with a fold down ramp, absolute steal of a deal from a garage sale I went to.
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I remember all the people that had all the toys (on credit) before the big 2008/2009 crash. Many of these good people also ended up walking away from their homes ( mortgages ) in the aftermath of that. Unfortunately, I'm seeing a lot of the same all the toys (on credit) behavior theses days. Not a good sign.
We have none of the toys...and it feels great.
Yes, one of our BFFs was one of those people. RV, jetskis, motorcycles, etc. A lot of it was "we can afford the monthly payment" thinking, for sure. Rumor had it that they had *3* mortgages on their townhome.
He quit his job in a snit, thinking he'd get another one easily. And then....2009. So he was unemployed for several years. They had to short-sell the house, and the RV and jetskis were repo'd, and he was incredulous that they still owed money, even when they'd given them back to the dealer. The idea that a depreciated asset meant that they still paid for something they no longer "owned" was startling to them.
They ended up buying a double-wide mobile home from a mutual friend, who financed it for them, at a rate of ~ 7% given their crappy credit scores. (They were so bad that most apartment complexes wouldn't rent to them). About a year later, he got a Federal job in another part of the state. He moved, she stayed, and negotiated a transfer to his town, while getting ready to sell the mobile home. They were *incredibly* lucky, and were able to sell the mobile home for $10k more than they'd purchased it, and paid off the mutual friend.
Now? They've been in the new town for 7 years, bought another house, and seem to have learned their lesson...a bit. They don't finance quite as much, but they have no problem supporting kids who are 30+ and making six figures, but who have tax debt, and DoorDash 3x per day. They spend way too much on cars, IMO.
At some point? Not our problem.
We have some toys, but we've paid cash for them. We have a 15 year mortgage at 2.625%. We have been saving for retirement since we were 25. We bought our first house at age 27/29 and spent years rehabbing it, and then sold it after 20 years, so we could move up in house. We DIY a ridiculous amount of stuff. We live on a written budget. DH semi-retired at age 57; I will retire at age 60.
So you don't need to be so self-congratulatory about having no toys - there are those of us out there who go about getting them in ways that is not financially ruinous.
Haha you got me. However, the LARGE majority of people around here clearly can't afford them and are living like your BFFs. There will always be a minority that can afford all the toys, of course. But yea... I'm not buying that anywhere near the majority can. Sorry I don't have your permission to be self-congratulatory...haha.
The thing that is really disappointing is that people didn't seem to learn anything during 2008-2009. And I guess younger folks didn't have much skin in the game then...so they don't really understand. I think the biggest takeaway though is how dismally bad most are with their finances and don't have a dime save for retirement, yet have all the toys. Just extremely concerning.
Piling on. We have a fancypants RV, which we park in our huge driveway. It was eight years old when we bought it, but only had 25k miles and still felt "new". We paid cash from a post-FI/FIRE side hustle. Thanks to the pandemic, it still sells for almost twice what we paid for it, not that we care. We bought it to use and enjoy, not for resale.
Speaking of jet skis, DH had two when we got married. He also had an older RV. He loved to camp and fish, but didn't want to tow a boat, so he started using the jet skis to fish from. Of course, he bought everything used, paid cash, fixed them up, and broke roughly even when he sold them.
It is possible to own toys responsibly, but I agree, it does tend to be the exception.
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I finally have a really juicy overheard at work - a guy working for our company’s client in a facilities maintenance position out of the blue told me “I ended up buying a brand new Dodge Ram, it was only $55k, Ford wanted close to $85k for the same trim level of truck.” I mumbled something like ”that’s a pretty big difference.” and he replied with “yeah, so I took that difference and got two new jet skis!”.
What do you think the odds are that all 3 are financed?
Odds are almost certainly 100%.
Did he also buy a trailer to haul them jetskis?
I don't even want to know what the loan rates are for powersports equipment. I'm too lazy to search for that.
Some people enjoy being in debt, it gives them validation so they can bitch about Big Banks and Bailouts.
I remember all the people that had all the toys (on credit) before the big 2008/2009 crash. Many of these good people also ended up walking away from their homes ( mortgages ) in the aftermath of that. Unfortunately, I'm seeing a lot of the same all the toys (on credit) behavior theses days. Not a good sign.
We have none of the toys...and it feels great.
I remember seeing all the toys on the repo lot of the credit union in 2008. I'm kind of hoping some kind of double jetski trailer becomes available from that lot soon that's not too expensive. This may belong on the thread about stupidest thing I'm lusting after, but I want a small trailer to haul kayaks and I think that would be a good size for what I want. Not the monstrosity that my brother is trying to sell me, but something that will haul like 4 boats. I have a 4x6 utility trailer that will work for four, but is a pain to load.
Can you build some racks for the 4x6 trailer that help with that? I just picked up a 4x6 trailer too, a really nice utility style with a fold down ramp, absolute steal of a deal from a garage sale I went to.
That is something that we are looking at. The biggest issue with that idea is that the 4x6 trailer is shared between several family members for different activities, so we'd need to fabricate something that is either easily removable or can accommodate something like a lawn mower. The ramp also doesn't fold into the trailer, nor is it removable. If worse comes to worse, I do have a very small trailer. I think it was originally for a canoe. I think I could fit it with a crossbar long enough to hold 2 kayaks and put the other two on roof rails on my Jeep. I'm trying to avoid loading these things higher than shoulder level though.
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I've got one. I have a coworker who recently took up a second job. She's working two jobs, and I'm assuming her husband is working at least one job as well. The reason? Two of their daughters got married over the past couple years, and they're paying (or helping to pay) their kids' college costs.
When she was planning one of the weddings, she expressed to me how hard it was to find a venue. One venue they were considering cost $20k....just for the venue. The bare room. Anything else was extra. Tables, chairs, catering, etc.
She and her husband are probably 10 years older than me. I suspect I'll retire long before them, and we're a single-income (albeit a very good single income) family.
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I've got one. I have a coworker who recently took up a second job. She's working two jobs, and I'm assuming her husband is working at least one job as well. The reason? Two of their daughters got married over the past couple years, and they're paying (or helping to pay) their kids' college costs.
When she was planning one of the weddings, she expressed to me how hard it was to find a venue. One venue they were considering cost $20k....just for the venue. The bare room. Anything else was extra. Tables, chairs, catering, etc.
She and her husband are probably 10 years older than me. I suspect I'll retire long before them, and we're a single-income (albeit a very good single income) family.
I’ll rent my backyard to them as a venue for only half that! And I’ll even throw in a few plastic lawn chairs! But seriously, I can’t imagine spending that much money on a kid’s wedding or my own wedding for that matter, even if I had the cash laying around.
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I've got one. I have a coworker who recently took up a second job. She's working two jobs, and I'm assuming her husband is working at least one job as well. The reason? Two of their daughters got married over the past couple years, and they're paying (or helping to pay) their kids' college costs.
When she was planning one of the weddings, she expressed to me how hard it was to find a venue. One venue they were considering cost $20k....just for the venue. The bare room. Anything else was extra. Tables, chairs, catering, etc.
She and her husband are probably 10 years older than me. I suspect I'll retire long before them, and we're a single-income (albeit a very good single income) family.
We just went to a wedding today - our sole employee was getting married and invited our family. The wedding was in a church and while we didn't go to the reception she had mentioned they got a pretty good deal after their original venue cancelled their contract a month out because someone else was willing to pay more for that same day (pretty shitty move on the part of the venue). I think the new venue was $500 (original place was going to be $1-2k). They're a young couple and she only works part-time for us so I would bet the whole wedding was only several thousand dollars.
My older brother is getting married in a few weeks in the backyard of his house with just family in attendance and their reception is at a local brewery. They told the venue it was just a party with friends (no mention of wedding) because the price would have magically doubled or tripled. He and his fiancée are late 30s early 40s so they've got enough sense not to blow a bunch of money on a wedding. They will probably also spend just a few thousand dollars total.
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I've got one. I have a coworker who recently took up a second job. She's working two jobs, and I'm assuming her husband is working at least one job as well. The reason? Two of their daughters got married over the past couple years, and they're paying (or helping to pay) their kids' college costs.
When she was planning one of the weddings, she expressed to me how hard it was to find a venue. One venue they were considering cost $20k....just for the venue. The bare room. Anything else was extra. Tables, chairs, catering, etc.
She and her husband are probably 10 years older than me. I suspect I'll retire long before them, and we're a single-income (albeit a very good single income) family.
We just went to a wedding today - our sole employee was getting married and invited our family. The wedding was in a church and while we didn't go to the reception she had mentioned they got a pretty good deal after their original venue cancelled their contract a month out because someone else was willing to pay more for that same day (pretty shitty move on the part of the venue). I think the new venue was $500 (original place was going to be $1-2k). They're a young couple and she only works part-time for us so I would bet the whole wedding was only several thousand dollars.
My older brother is getting married in a few weeks in the backyard of his house with just family in attendance and their reception is at a local brewery. They told the venue it was just a party with friends (no mention of wedding) because the price would have magically doubled or tripled. He and his fiancée are late 30s early 40s so they've got enough sense not to blow a bunch of money on a wedding. They will probably also spend just a few thousand dollars total.
That’s an awesome trick lol, I like reading about financial train wrecks, but it’s cool to hear about people with some common sense and smarts around money too
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20 years ago, DW and I got married at the state park. We spent $20 to reserve a pavilion and got married on a deck on a bluff overlooking the river. Reception was at the sportsman's club, her dad picked up that tab, but it was less than $2k all in.
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I've got one. I have a coworker who recently took up a second job. She's working two jobs, and I'm assuming her husband is working at least one job as well. The reason? Two of their daughters got married over the past couple years, and they're paying (or helping to pay) their kids' college costs.
When she was planning one of the weddings, she expressed to me how hard it was to find a venue. One venue they were considering cost $20k....just for the venue. The bare room. Anything else was extra. Tables, chairs, catering, etc.
She and her husband are probably 10 years older than me. I suspect I'll retire long before them, and we're a single-income (albeit a very good single income) family.
We just went to a wedding today - our sole employee was getting married and invited our family. The wedding was in a church and while we didn't go to the reception she had mentioned they got a pretty good deal after their original venue cancelled their contract a month out because someone else was willing to pay more for that same day (pretty shitty move on the part of the venue). I think the new venue was $500 (original place was going to be $1-2k). They're a young couple and she only works part-time for us so I would bet the whole wedding was only several thousand dollars.
My older brother is getting married in a few weeks in the backyard of his house with just family in attendance and their reception is at a local brewery. They told the venue it was just a party with friends (no mention of wedding) because the price would have magically doubled or tripled. He and his fiancée are late 30s early 40s so they've got enough sense not to blow a bunch of money on a wedding. They will probably also spend just a few thousand dollars total.
That’s an awesome trick lol, I like reading about financial train wrecks, but it’s cool to hear about people with some common sense and smarts around money too
When one of my old coworkers got married, they rented an outdoor space from a farm. The soon to be husband was getting quotes for catering - prices were just really high.
The soon to be wife (my coworker), took over. Called a few, including their preferred one, and mentioned a party for about 70 people and the date. Quote was for 1/2 of what they'd quoted her fiance for the wedding.
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Wedding is Latin for "price gouging".
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I've got one. I have a coworker who recently took up a second job. She's working two jobs, and I'm assuming her husband is working at least one job as well. The reason? Two of their daughters got married over the past couple years, and they're paying (or helping to pay) their kids' college costs.
When she was planning one of the weddings, she expressed to me how hard it was to find a venue. One venue they were considering cost $20k....just for the venue. The bare room. Anything else was extra. Tables, chairs, catering, etc.
She and her husband are probably 10 years older than me. I suspect I'll retire long before them, and we're a single-income (albeit a very good single income) family.
We just went to a wedding today - our sole employee was getting married and invited our family. The wedding was in a church and while we didn't go to the reception she had mentioned they got a pretty good deal after their original venue cancelled their contract a month out because someone else was willing to pay more for that same day (pretty shitty move on the part of the venue). I think the new venue was $500 (original place was going to be $1-2k). They're a young couple and she only works part-time for us so I would bet the whole wedding was only several thousand dollars.
My older brother is getting married in a few weeks in the backyard of his house with just family in attendance and their reception is at a local brewery. They told the venue it was just a party with friends (no mention of wedding) because the price would have magically doubled or tripled. He and his fiancée are late 30s early 40s so they've got enough sense not to blow a bunch of money on a wedding. They will probably also spend just a few thousand dollars total.
When people talk about expensive venues. I think of all the weddings that were hosted at my county parks enclosed shelters (think wood lodge style looking places with nice looking picnic tables.). Still available to rent for less than $1000 for the day.
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When people talk about expensive venues. I think of all the weddings that were hosted at my county parks enclosed shelters (think wood lodge style looking places with nice looking picnic tables.). Still available to rent for less than $1000 for the day.
Nope. We paid for an indoor wedding. Reasons:
- Elderly relatives. Walking on uneven ground with occasional gopher holes? Nope.
- Soggy ground. One relative did get married in a park. The ground was so wet she lost a shoe walking down the "aisle."
- Another relative got married outdoors, and no one could hear the ceremony; it was in a traffic pattern for the local airport.
- My sister got married outside, and it had rained all week, and then was freezing the day of the ceremony. Everyone left instead of staying for the reception.
- My cousin got married outside, and it was 90 degrees. We got stinky and sunburned, and then were asked to help break down the folding chairs after the ceremony.
There are perfectly rational reasons to not go for a park wedding. That doesn't mean you need to spend $40k on a wedding.
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20 years ago, DW and I got married at the state park. We spent $20 to reserve a pavilion and got married on a deck on a bluff overlooking the river. Reception was at the sportsman's club, her dad picked up that tab, but it was less than $2k all in.
I went to a park wedding a couple years ago. The couple had a private ceremony, so it was just the reception. It was really nice. They had coolers of beer and barbecue. I can't imagine it cost that much. I think the park reservation was free.
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When people talk about expensive venues. I think of all the weddings that were hosted at my county parks enclosed shelters (think wood lodge style looking places with nice looking picnic tables.). Still available to rent for less than $1000 for the day.
Nope. We paid for an indoor wedding. Reasons:
- Elderly relatives. Walking on uneven ground with occasional gopher holes? Nope.
- Soggy ground. One relative did get married in a park. The ground was so wet she lost a shoe walking down the "aisle."
- Another relative got married outdoors, and no one could hear the ceremony; it was in a traffic pattern for the local airport.
- My sister got married outside, and it had rained all week, and then was freezing the day of the ceremony. Everyone left instead of staying for the reception.
- My cousin got married outside, and it was 90 degrees. We got stinky and sunburned, and then were asked to help break down the folding chairs after the ceremony.
There are perfectly rational reasons to not go for a park wedding. That doesn't mean you need to spend $40k on a wedding.
There are all valid reasons. But all of parks in my area have very nice lodges for very reasonable rates that are indoor facilities (as in electricity, heat, plumbing, bathroom, kitchens) that have paved parking lots and walkways. It's not formal or fancy by any means (I attended one featured sledding at the catered reception), but certainly comfortable and very affordable.
We did attend a beautiful wedding at a campground where the reception was at stone building with several large double doors along all the walls so that when they were all open, it felt like an outdoor reception but could be closed during inclement weather. Genius.
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When people talk about expensive venues. I think of all the weddings that were hosted at my county parks enclosed shelters (think wood lodge style looking places with nice looking picnic tables.). Still available to rent for less than $1000 for the day.
Nope. We paid for an indoor wedding. Reasons:
- Elderly relatives. Walking on uneven ground with occasional gopher holes? Nope.
- Soggy ground. One relative did get married in a park. The ground was so wet she lost a shoe walking down the "aisle."
- Another relative got married outdoors, and no one could hear the ceremony; it was in a traffic pattern for the local airport.
- My sister got married outside, and it had rained all week, and then was freezing the day of the ceremony. Everyone left instead of staying for the reception.
- My cousin got married outside, and it was 90 degrees. We got stinky and sunburned, and then were asked to help break down the folding chairs after the ceremony.
There are perfectly rational reasons to not go for a park wedding. That doesn't mean you need to spend $40k on a wedding.
My park’s enclosed shelter had all those things. I’m not sure why you assumed it was outside. Like I said the expensive shelter was a little log lodge with a kitchen and bathrooms etc. It wasn’t an outdoor venue.
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When people talk about expensive venues. I think of all the weddings that were hosted at my county parks enclosed shelters (think wood lodge style looking places with nice looking picnic tables.). Still available to rent for less than $1000 for the day.
Nope. We paid for an indoor wedding. Reasons:
- Elderly relatives. Walking on uneven ground with occasional gopher holes? Nope.
- Soggy ground. One relative did get married in a park. The ground was so wet she lost a shoe walking down the "aisle."
- Another relative got married outdoors, and no one could hear the ceremony; it was in a traffic pattern for the local airport.
- My sister got married outside, and it had rained all week, and then was freezing the day of the ceremony. Everyone left instead of staying for the reception.
- My cousin got married outside, and it was 90 degrees. We got stinky and sunburned, and then were asked to help break down the folding chairs after the ceremony.
There are perfectly rational reasons to not go for a park wedding. That doesn't mean you need to spend $40k on a wedding.
My park’s enclosed shelter had all those things. I’m not sure why you assumed it was outside. Like I said the expensive shelter was a little log lodge with a kitchen and bathrooms etc. It wasn’t an outdoor venue.
I didn't assume you were outside. I said that *we* didn't do a park wedding, because the parks we had access to (as evidenced by the examples above) did not meet the criteria for guest comfort, or our comfort.
Are there parks that meet them? Sure. But it doesn't make it an expensive wedding if you choose to get married inside.
We got married on a weekday, and paid $800 for the venue for 8 hours, and that included chairs, tables, and no weather or soggy lawn issues.
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You did assume outdoor because the poster said "park," and you said "Nope" and listed six reasons why outdoor weddings aren't ideal. That's fine, but at least be forthright in your communications.
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My colleagues have been sharing vacation stories. One coworker often complains about living paycheck to paycheck and not being able to save anything for retirement. (We are expats and can’t contribute to social security in the US/Canada, and our company gives us cash in lieu of a pension contribution.) They are a family of four. For their vacation, they flew to the US (~USD$10k), took a fancy expensive cruise (~USD$6500), went to Mexico where they “drank way too much” ($5000), and then underwent cosmetic surgery (~$3000). My estimates are low as I’m using current non-peak season prices. So they managed to spend at a minimum, $25k in two months. And very likely they spent more than that because they like upgrades and luxuries and “once in a lifetime experiences”, and I haven’t factored in living expenses when they were in the US.
Their justification was that it’s not fair that their extended family got to go on these trips while they were stuck in China, so they deserved it. I’m guessing this may be why they never seem to have enough money.
But then again, I spent more than they did this summer, since we bought a house, so I suppose pots shouldn’t be calling kettles black.
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and then underwent cosmetic surgery (~$3000).
Please tell me the surgery was LASIK, please tell me the surgery was LASIK... obviously not from the remainder of your post but I can at least hope, right?
I only found out that LASIK is technically considered cosmetic when I went to go get it done, since insurance does not cover it. I tell all my friends and family that I've had cosmetic surgery now. ;)
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and then underwent cosmetic surgery (~$3000).
Please tell me the surgery was LASIK, please tell me the surgery was LASIK... obviously not from the remainder of your post but I can at least hope, right?
I only found out that LASIK is technically considered cosmetic when I went to go get it done, since insurance does not cover it. I tell all my friends and family that I've had cosmetic surgery now. ;)
No, but their eyes now look bigger and rounder.
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and then underwent cosmetic surgery (~$3000).
Please tell me the surgery was LASIK, please tell me the surgery was LASIK... obviously not from the remainder of your post but I can at least hope, right?
I only found out that LASIK is technically considered cosmetic when I went to go get it done, since insurance does not cover it. I tell all my friends and family that I've had cosmetic surgery now. ;)
No, but their eyes now look bigger and rounder.
Oh my god, did they get eyelid surgery?
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and then underwent cosmetic surgery (~$3000).
Please tell me the surgery was LASIK, please tell me the surgery was LASIK... obviously not from the remainder of your post but I can at least hope, right?
I only found out that LASIK is technically considered cosmetic when I went to go get it done, since insurance does not cover it. I tell all my friends and family that I've had cosmetic surgery now. ;)
No, but their eyes now look bigger and rounder.
Oh my god, did they get eyelid surgery?
Bingo. They explained it was medically necessary to prevent getting wrinkles on their forehead. Without the surgery, they’d have to use the muscles in their forehead to open their eyes and make them look nice and round. I guess this helps with forehead muscle strain?
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and then underwent cosmetic surgery (~$3000).
Please tell me the surgery was LASIK, please tell me the surgery was LASIK... obviously not from the remainder of your post but I can at least hope, right?
I only found out that LASIK is technically considered cosmetic when I went to go get it done, since insurance does not cover it. I tell all my friends and family that I've had cosmetic surgery now. ;)
No, but their eyes now look bigger and rounder.
Oh my god, did they get eyelid surgery?
Bingo. They explained it was medically necessary to prevent getting wrinkles on their forehead. Without the surgery, they’d have to use the muscles in their forehead to open their eyes and make them look nice and round. I guess this helps with forehead muscle strain?
Now it’s effortless for them to look surprised that they don’t have any money
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You did assume outdoor because the poster said "park," and you said "Nope" and listed six reasons why outdoor weddings aren't ideal. That's fine, but at least be forthright in your communications.
Hey, I'm just catching up on this thread. I read that as "Nope, that wouldn't have worked for us." In my experience, @Sandi_k is not a game player. Accusing her of not being forthright kinda feels like a Rule #1 violation.
Also, I live in the same general region as she does. I was drooling over the descriptions of the facilities that were described by some on this thread. They don't really exist in our neck of the woods. Hang on a sec, I just thought of one. Let me check...rates are from $1122 (M-W-Th) to $5568 on a Sunday, just for the room. They charge $150 to use an outside caterer (only an option on M-W-Th). On F-S-S, you MUST use an approved caterer, which IME, is always expen$ive, plus $500 or $1000 cleaning deposit, depending on the time of the event. If your event runs late, that's another $500/hour. They also make you have $1M-2M of Liability Insurance. Oh, and no hard liquor may be served. The waiting list can be years long.
It's a public freaking park.
We eloped and not a day goes by that we aren't thrilled we chose that path.
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and then underwent cosmetic surgery (~$3000).
Please tell me the surgery was LASIK, please tell me the surgery was LASIK... obviously not from the remainder of your post but I can at least hope, right?
I only found out that LASIK is technically considered cosmetic when I went to go get it done, since insurance does not cover it. I tell all my friends and family that I've had cosmetic surgery now. ;)
No, but their eyes now look bigger and rounder.
Oh my god, did they get eyelid surgery?
Bingo. They explained it was medically necessary to prevent getting wrinkles on their forehead. Without the surgery, they’d have to use the muscles in their forehead to open their eyes and make them look nice and round. I guess this helps with forehead muscle strain?
To be vaguely fair, I know of two older women who had to have eyelid surgery BEFORE they could have medically-necessary cataract surgery. Their eyelid muscles ... I don't know how to say this, "relaxed"? "stretched"? so that their eyelids were always at half-mast (or more closed) and it apparently puts pressure on some part of your eyeball. (Oh, just thought of a third: my literally-zen-buddhist aunt had the same eyelid surgery, because she was getting back and neck problems from having to tip her head back to see stuff.)
Signed, someone who will also be on that path, so I keep a (mentally-separated) savings bucket for this item. Sigh.
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and then underwent cosmetic surgery (~$3000).
Please tell me the surgery was LASIK, please tell me the surgery was LASIK... obviously not from the remainder of your post but I can at least hope, right?
I only found out that LASIK is technically considered cosmetic when I went to go get it done, since insurance does not cover it. I tell all my friends and family that I've had cosmetic surgery now. ;)
No, but their eyes now look bigger and rounder.
Oh my god, did they get eyelid surgery?
Bingo. They explained it was medically necessary to prevent getting wrinkles on their forehead. Without the surgery, they’d have to use the muscles in their forehead to open their eyes and make them look nice and round. I guess this helps with forehead muscle strain?
To be vaguely fair, I know of two older women who had to have eyelid surgery BEFORE they could have medically-necessary cataract surgery. Their eyelid muscles ... I don't know how to say this, "relaxed"? "stretched"? so that their eyelids were always at half-mast (or more closed) and it apparently puts pressure on some part of your eyeball. (Oh, just thought of a third: my literally-zen-buddhist aunt had the same eyelid surgery, because she was getting back and neck problems from having to tip her head back to see stuff.)
Signed, someone who will also be on that path, so I keep a (mentally-separated) savings bucket for this item. Sigh.
I totally support someone who needs eyelid surgery so that they can see. Salman Rushdie had to get it done to save his eyesight (https://www.deseret.com/1999/4/4/19438237/drooping-eyelids-may-be-ptosis). But it seems like @Freedomin5 's coworkers did it primarily to avoid wrinkles.
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and then underwent cosmetic surgery (~$3000).
Please tell me the surgery was LASIK, please tell me the surgery was LASIK... obviously not from the remainder of your post but I can at least hope, right?
I only found out that LASIK is technically considered cosmetic when I went to go get it done, since insurance does not cover it. I tell all my friends and family that I've had cosmetic surgery now. ;)
No, but their eyes now look bigger and rounder.
Oh my god, did they get eyelid surgery?
Bingo. They explained it was medically necessary to prevent getting wrinkles on their forehead. Without the surgery, they’d have to use the muscles in their forehead to open their eyes and make them look nice and round. I guess this helps with forehead muscle strain?
To be vaguely fair, I know of two older women who had to have eyelid surgery BEFORE they could have medically-necessary cataract surgery. Their eyelid muscles ... I don't know how to say this, "relaxed"? "stretched"? so that their eyelids were always at half-mast (or more closed) and it apparently puts pressure on some part of your eyeball. (Oh, just thought of a third: my literally-zen-buddhist aunt had the same eyelid surgery, because she was getting back and neck problems from having to tip her head back to see stuff.)
Signed, someone who will also be on that path, so I keep a (mentally-separated) savings bucket for this item. Sigh.
I totally support someone who needs eyelid surgery so that they can see. Salman Rushdie had to get it done to save his eyesight (https://www.deseret.com/1999/4/4/19438237/drooping-eyelids-may-be-ptosis). But it seems like @Freedomin5 's coworkers did it primarily to avoid wrinkles.
My mom also had this procedure, which was recommended by her doctor. After it was done she realized she had been tilting her head back to compensate for her eyelids not opening completely. In her case it wasn’t considered cosmetic and was covered by insurance.
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The eyelid thing is actually super common among Asians. For whatever reason, East Asians tend to have no fold in the upper eyelid, thus causing the “monolid”, i.e. no visible eyelid crease above the eye. This is a source of consternation for some reason and cosmetic surgery to create a double eyelid is common. IDK how common but I would say it’s on par with the boob job in Western circles.
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More often, at least for Japanese young people (and keep in mind that boob job is relativly rare in "Western circles" that aren't the US).
There are literally ads aimed at teenagers in trains in Japan for cosmetic eyelid surgery. Gross, if you ask me.
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My colleagues have been sharing vacation stories. One coworker often complains about living paycheck to paycheck and not being able to save anything for retirement. (We are expats and can’t contribute to social security in the US/Canada, and our company gives us cash in lieu of a pension contribution.) They are a family of four. For their vacation, they flew to the US (~USD$10k), took a fancy expensive cruise (~USD$6500), went to Mexico where they “drank way too much” ($5000), and then underwent cosmetic surgery (~$3000). My estimates are low as I’m using current non-peak season prices. So they managed to spend at a minimum, $25k in two months. And very likely they spent more than that because they like upgrades and luxuries and “once in a lifetime experiences”, and I haven’t factored in living expenses when they were in the US.
Their justification was that it’s not fair that their extended family got to go on these trips while they were stuck in China, so they deserved it. I’m guessing this may be why they never seem to have enough money.
But then again, I spent more than they did this summer, since we bought a house, so I suppose pots shouldn’t be calling kettles black.
You still have the house, though, presumably. While it's not exactly a liquid asset, if you wanted to sell it you could. The same cannot be said of a vacation that's in the past.
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My colleagues have been sharing vacation stories. One coworker often complains about living paycheck to paycheck and not being able to save anything for retirement. (We are expats and can’t contribute to social security in the US/Canada, and our company gives us cash in lieu of a pension contribution.) They are a family of four. For their vacation, they flew to the US (~USD$10k), took a fancy expensive cruise (~USD$6500), went to Mexico where they “drank way too much” ($5000), and then underwent cosmetic surgery (~$3000). My estimates are low as I’m using current non-peak season prices. So they managed to spend at a minimum, $25k in two months. And very likely they spent more than that because they like upgrades and luxuries and “once in a lifetime experiences”, and I haven’t factored in living expenses when they were in the US.
Their justification was that it’s not fair that their extended family got to go on these trips while they were stuck in China, so they deserved it. I’m guessing this may be why they never seem to have enough money.
But then again, I spent more than they did this summer, since we bought a house, so I suppose pots shouldn’t be calling kettles black.
$5000 for booze? If two were kids, then that's $2500/adult. Did they drink a heck ton of cheap booze or a few bottles of very expensive tequila, wine, rare spirits?
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My colleagues have been sharing vacation stories. One coworker often complains about living paycheck to paycheck and not being able to save anything for retirement. (We are expats and can’t contribute to social security in the US/Canada, and our company gives us cash in lieu of a pension contribution.) They are a family of four. For their vacation, they flew to the US (~USD$10k), took a fancy expensive cruise (~USD$6500), went to Mexico where they “drank way too much” ($5000), and then underwent cosmetic surgery (~$3000). My estimates are low as I’m using current non-peak season prices. So they managed to spend at a minimum, $25k in two months. And very likely they spent more than that because they like upgrades and luxuries and “once in a lifetime experiences”, and I haven’t factored in living expenses when they were in the US.
Their justification was that it’s not fair that their extended family got to go on these trips while they were stuck in China, so they deserved it. I’m guessing this may be why they never seem to have enough money.
But then again, I spent more than they did this summer, since we bought a house, so I suppose pots shouldn’t be calling kettles black.
$5000 for booze? If two were kids, then that's $2500/adult. Did they drink a heck ton of cheap booze or a few bottles of very expensive tequila, wine, rare spirits?
Good lord...We paid for an entire Viking Rhine river cruise for less than the "$5000" they spent on booze ( around $4500 to be exact )!
They had a deal going with free international airfare and free drink package. Just got back a couple weeks ago. Best....trip....ever, especially for the price! The drink package was great...awesome bartenders and top shelf everything was included.
It is unbelievable what some pay for vacations. I'm assuming they don't even bother to look for any sort of deals, which is completely against our sensibilities ( and I'm assuming others here are the same way as we are )!
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My colleagues have been sharing vacation stories. One coworker often complains about living paycheck to paycheck and not being able to save anything for retirement. (We are expats and can’t contribute to social security in the US/Canada, and our company gives us cash in lieu of a pension contribution.) They are a family of four. For their vacation, they flew to the US (~USD$10k), took a fancy expensive cruise (~USD$6500), went to Mexico where they “drank way too much” ($5000), and then underwent cosmetic surgery (~$3000). My estimates are low as I’m using current non-peak season prices. So they managed to spend at a minimum, $25k in two months. And very likely they spent more than that because they like upgrades and luxuries and “once in a lifetime experiences”, and I haven’t factored in living expenses when they were in the US.
Their justification was that it’s not fair that their extended family got to go on these trips while they were stuck in China, so they deserved it. I’m guessing this may be why they never seem to have enough money.
But then again, I spent more than they did this summer, since we bought a house, so I suppose pots shouldn’t be calling kettles black.
You still have the house, though, presumably. While it's not exactly a liquid asset, if you wanted to sell it you could. The same cannot be said of a vacation that's in the past.
That is true. Also, our house is basically a rental property.
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My colleagues have been sharing vacation stories. One coworker often complains about living paycheck to paycheck and not being able to save anything for retirement. (We are expats and can’t contribute to social security in the US/Canada, and our company gives us cash in lieu of a pension contribution.) They are a family of four. For their vacation, they flew to the US (~USD$10k), took a fancy expensive cruise (~USD$6500), went to Mexico where they “drank way too much” ($5000), and then underwent cosmetic surgery (~$3000). My estimates are low as I’m using current non-peak season prices. So they managed to spend at a minimum, $25k in two months. And very likely they spent more than that because they like upgrades and luxuries and “once in a lifetime experiences”, and I haven’t factored in living expenses when they were in the US.
Their justification was that it’s not fair that their extended family got to go on these trips while they were stuck in China, so they deserved it. I’m guessing this may be why they never seem to have enough money.
But then again, I spent more than they did this summer, since we bought a house, so I suppose pots shouldn’t be calling kettles black.
$5000 for booze? If two were kids, then that's $2500/adult. Did they drink a heck ton of cheap booze or a few bottles of very expensive tequila, wine, rare spirits?
They (2 adults, 2 kids) went to a 5-star all-inclusive resort in Mexico for about a week. The $5000 was the approximate cost for the vacation, including flights.
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My colleagues have been sharing vacation stories. One coworker often complains about living paycheck to paycheck and not being able to save anything for retirement. (We are expats and can’t contribute to social security in the US/Canada, and our company gives us cash in lieu of a pension contribution.) They are a family of four. For their vacation, they flew to the US (~USD$10k), took a fancy expensive cruise (~USD$6500), went to Mexico where they “drank way too much” ($5000), and then underwent cosmetic surgery (~$3000). My estimates are low as I’m using current non-peak season prices. So they managed to spend at a minimum, $25k in two months. And very likely they spent more than that because they like upgrades and luxuries and “once in a lifetime experiences”, and I haven’t factored in living expenses when they were in the US.
Their justification was that it’s not fair that their extended family got to go on these trips while they were stuck in China, so they deserved it. I’m guessing this may be why they never seem to have enough money.
But then again, I spent more than they did this summer, since we bought a house, so I suppose pots shouldn’t be calling kettles black.
$5000 for booze? If two were kids, then that's $2500/adult. Did they drink a heck ton of cheap booze or a few bottles of very expensive tequila, wine, rare spirits?
They (2 adults, 2 kids) went to a 5-star all-inclusive resort in Mexico for about a week. The $5000 was the approximate cost for the vacation, including flights.
I would bet on the over.
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My colleagues have been sharing vacation stories. One coworker often complains about living paycheck to paycheck and not being able to save anything for retirement. (We are expats and can’t contribute to social security in the US/Canada, and our company gives us cash in lieu of a pension contribution.) They are a family of four. For their vacation, they flew to the US (~USD$10k), took a fancy expensive cruise (~USD$6500), went to Mexico where they “drank way too much” ($5000), and then underwent cosmetic surgery (~$3000). My estimates are low as I’m using current non-peak season prices. So they managed to spend at a minimum, $25k in two months. And very likely they spent more than that because they like upgrades and luxuries and “once in a lifetime experiences”, and I haven’t factored in living expenses when they were in the US.
Their justification was that it’s not fair that their extended family got to go on these trips while they were stuck in China, so they deserved it. I’m guessing this may be why they never seem to have enough money.
But then again, I spent more than they did this summer, since we bought a house, so I suppose pots shouldn’t be calling kettles black.
$5000 for booze? If two were kids, then that's $2500/adult. Did they drink a heck ton of cheap booze or a few bottles of very expensive tequila, wine, rare spirits?
They (2 adults, 2 kids) went to a 5-star all-inclusive resort in Mexico for about a week. The $5000 was the approximate cost for the vacation, including flights.
I would bet on the over.
Flights to Mexico from the US may not have cost a lot, depending on timing, location, and whether there are connecting flights.
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I believe Freedomin5's coworkers travelled from China to Mexico.
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I believe Freedomin5's coworkers travelled from China to Mexico.
China -> US -> Vancouver -> US -> Mexico -> US -> China
They’re now planning a vacation (all-inclusive, private tour) to India.
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I believe Freedomin5's coworkers travelled from China to Mexico.
China -> US -> Vancouver -> US -> Mexico -> US -> China
They’re now planning a vacation (all-inclusive, private tour) to India.
Well, in their heads, they're chasing that best life! /s
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I believe Freedomin5's coworkers travelled from China to Mexico.
China -> US -> Vancouver -> US -> Mexico -> US -> China
They’re now planning a vacation (all-inclusive, private tour) to India.
It seems to be getting away from them…
Well, in their heads, they're chasing that best life! /s
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The double eyelid thing was fascinating to me. My now-husband had to explain what it was when we started dating. I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have never even noticed the difference if someone hadn’t pointed it out to me. Same with the nose bridge/no nose bridge thing. Now I can’t unsee it and find it sad that actors and other famous people all have nose bridges. Hopefully my kids can just view these differences as “looking more like mummy” and “looking more like baba” than any value judgement associated with them.
As I get old and saggy I find myself much less judge mental of anything people want to freely do to their own bodies. That said, we will still judge the expense if they can’t afford it.
And yes, LASIK is some of the best money I have spent.
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The double eyelid thing was fascinating to me. My now-husband had to explain what it was when we started dating. I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have never even noticed the difference if someone hadn’t pointed it out to me. Same with the nose bridge/no nose bridge thing. Now I can’t unsee it and find it sad that actors and other famous people all have nose bridges. Hopefully my kids can just view these differences as “looking more like mummy” and “looking more like baba” than any value judgement associated with them.
As I get old and saggy I find myself much less judge mental of anything people want to freely do to their own bodies. That said, we will still judge the expense if they can’t afford it.
And yes, LASIK is some of the best money I have spent.
The amount of people getting expensive cosmetic work done is shocking to me. Even basic Botox is like $300-500 per round (for the LEAST amount), and you need to do it 2x per year. Why drop $1,000 per year on a few wrinkles that just come back? That's $10,000 over 10 years ($13-14 with interest).
I'd rather have this $$ for something more interesting. People can put up with my squinty lines.
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and then underwent cosmetic surgery (~$3000).
Please tell me the surgery was LASIK, please tell me the surgery was LASIK... obviously not from the remainder of your post but I can at least hope, right?
I only found out that LASIK is technically considered cosmetic when I went to go get it done, since insurance does not cover it. I tell all my friends and family that I've had cosmetic surgery now. ;)
No, but their eyes now look bigger and rounder.
Oh my god, did they get eyelid surgery?
Bingo. They explained it was medically necessary to prevent getting wrinkles on their forehead. Without the surgery, they’d have to use the muscles in their forehead to open their eyes and make them look nice and round. I guess this helps with forehead muscle strain?
To be vaguely fair, I know of two older women who had to have eyelid surgery BEFORE they could have medically-necessary cataract surgery. Their eyelid muscles ... I don't know how to say this, "relaxed"? "stretched"? so that their eyelids were always at half-mast (or more closed) and it apparently puts pressure on some part of your eyeball. (Oh, just thought of a third: my literally-zen-buddhist aunt had the same eyelid surgery, because she was getting back and neck problems from having to tip her head back to see stuff.)
Signed, someone who will also be on that path, so I keep a (mentally-separated) savings bucket for this item. Sigh.
My father--in his mid-70s at the time--had an insurance-funded eyelid lift. His lids drooped enough that it was affecting his vision. They did a test to check his peripheral vision (and maybe also just total field of vision) and it was deemed bad enough that the surgery to lift his eyelids out of the way so he could see better/more was deemed medically necessary. We all teased him a bit about it, but there was not an ounce of vanity in the decision to do it.
DH has "bedroom eyes" which are deep set and heavy-lidded and I suspect he will need something similar in as he ages. /threadjack
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and then underwent cosmetic surgery (~$3000).
Please tell me the surgery was LASIK, please tell me the surgery was LASIK... obviously not from the remainder of your post but I can at least hope, right?
I only found out that LASIK is technically considered cosmetic when I went to go get it done, since insurance does not cover it. I tell all my friends and family that I've had cosmetic surgery now. ;)
No, but their eyes now look bigger and rounder.
Oh my god, did they get eyelid surgery?
Bingo. They explained it was medically necessary to prevent getting wrinkles on their forehead. Without the surgery, they’d have to use the muscles in their forehead to open their eyes and make them look nice and round. I guess this helps with forehead muscle strain?
To be vaguely fair, I know of two older women who had to have eyelid surgery BEFORE they could have medically-necessary cataract surgery. Their eyelid muscles ... I don't know how to say this, "relaxed"? "stretched"? so that their eyelids were always at half-mast (or more closed) and it apparently puts pressure on some part of your eyeball. (Oh, just thought of a third: my literally-zen-buddhist aunt had the same eyelid surgery, because she was getting back and neck problems from having to tip her head back to see stuff.)
Signed, someone who will also be on that path, so I keep a (mentally-separated) savings bucket for this item. Sigh.
My father--in his mid-70s at the time--had an insurance-funded eyelid lift. His lids drooped enough that it was affecting his vision. They did a test to check his peripheral vision (and maybe also just total field of vision) and it was deemed bad enough that the surgery to lift his eyelids out of the way so he could see better/more was deemed medically necessary. We all teased him a bit about it, but there was not an ounce of vanity in the decision to do it.
DH has "bedroom eyes" which are deep set and heavy-lidded and I suspect he will need something similar in as he ages. /threadjack
I am likely to need this at some point as well. I’m caucasian, but my eyes are similar in many ways to someone from east Asia (epicanthic folds and close to monolid). My vision is fine now, but my eyelids are low enough that they have actually pushed down enough to reverse the direction of my lashes. If you looked closely at my lashes, the direction they point sort of looks like my right lashes are on my left eye and vice versa.
It doesn’t affect me at all really, except I no longer wear mascara if and when I ever put on makeup to go to a fancy event, because it would look weird. But yeah, I am waiting for the day when it starts to make it harder to see.
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The double eyelid thing was fascinating to me. My now-husband had to explain what it was when we started dating. I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have never even noticed the difference if someone hadn’t pointed it out to me. Same with the nose bridge/no nose bridge thing. Now I can’t unsee it and find it sad that actors and other famous people all have nose bridges. Hopefully my kids can just view these differences as “looking more like mummy” and “looking more like baba” than any value judgement associated with them.
As I get old and saggy I find myself much less judge mental of anything people want to freely do to their own bodies. That said, we will still judge the expense if they can’t afford it.
And yes, LASIK is some of the best money I have spent.
The amount of people getting expensive cosmetic work done is shocking to me. Even basic Botox is like $300-500 per round (for the LEAST amount), and you need to do it 2x per year. Why drop $1,000 per year on a few wrinkles that just come back? That's $10,000 over 10 years ($13-14 with interest).
I'd rather have this $$ for something more interesting. People can put up with my squinty lines.
I read recently that at some point with the wrinkle relaxers the muscles sort of give up and you don’t have to continue getting treatments in that area. I suppose it makes sense when I think about it, but I was still surprised.
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and then underwent cosmetic surgery (~$3000).
Please tell me the surgery was LASIK, please tell me the surgery was LASIK... obviously not from the remainder of your post but I can at least hope, right?
I only found out that LASIK is technically considered cosmetic when I went to go get it done, since insurance does not cover it. I tell all my friends and family that I've had cosmetic surgery now. ;)
No, but their eyes now look bigger and rounder.
Oh my god, did they get eyelid surgery?
Bingo. They explained it was medically necessary to prevent getting wrinkles on their forehead. Without the surgery, they’d have to use the muscles in their forehead to open their eyes and make them look nice and round. I guess this helps with forehead muscle strain?
To be vaguely fair, I know of two older women who had to have eyelid surgery BEFORE they could have medically-necessary cataract surgery. Their eyelid muscles ... I don't know how to say this, "relaxed"? "stretched"? so that their eyelids were always at half-mast (or more closed) and it apparently puts pressure on some part of your eyeball. (Oh, just thought of a third: my literally-zen-buddhist aunt had the same eyelid surgery, because she was getting back and neck problems from having to tip her head back to see stuff.)
Signed, someone who will also be on that path, so I keep a (mentally-separated) savings bucket for this item. Sigh.
My father--in his mid-70s at the time--had an insurance-funded eyelid lift. His lids drooped enough that it was affecting his vision. They did a test to check his peripheral vision (and maybe also just total field of vision) and it was deemed bad enough that the surgery to lift his eyelids out of the way so he could see better/more was deemed medically necessary. We all teased him a bit about it, but there was not an ounce of vanity in the decision to do it.
DH has "bedroom eyes" which are deep set and heavy-lidded and I suspect he will need something similar in as he ages. /threadjack
I am likely to need this at some point as well. I’m caucasian, but my eyes are similar in many ways to someone from east Asia (epicanthic folds and close to monolid). My vision is fine now, but my eyelids are low enough that they have actually pushed down enough to reverse the direction of my lashes. If you looked closely at my lashes, the direction they point sort of looks like my right lashes are on my left eye and vice versa.
It doesn’t affect me at all really, except I no longer wear mascara if and when I ever put on makeup to go to a fancy event, because it would look weird. But yeah, I am waiting for the day when it starts to make it harder to see.
That is weirdly fascinating. :)
My eyelids aren’t big enough so my eyes don’t quite close fully. It is awful because it means when I sleep my eyes dry out, exacerbated by the fact that late in my 20s I started suffering from dry eyes in general. I have a multi step maintenance routine i do every day, but still my eyes hurt when I get up to pee at night.
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The double eyelid thing was fascinating to me. My now-husband had to explain what it was when we started dating. I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have never even noticed the difference if someone hadn’t pointed it out to me. Same with the nose bridge/no nose bridge thing. Now I can’t unsee it and find it sad that actors and other famous people all have nose bridges. Hopefully my kids can just view these differences as “looking more like mummy” and “looking more like baba” than any value judgement associated with them.
As I get old and saggy I find myself much less judge mental of anything people want to freely do to their own bodies. That said, we will still judge the expense if they can’t afford it.
And yes, LASIK is some of the best money I have spent.
The amount of people getting expensive cosmetic work done is shocking to me. Even basic Botox is like $300-500 per round (for the LEAST amount), and you need to do it 2x per year. Why drop $1,000 per year on a few wrinkles that just come back? That's $10,000 over 10 years ($13-14 with interest).
I'd rather have this $$ for something more interesting. People can put up with my squinty lines.
I read recently that at some point with the wrinkle relaxers the muscles sort of give up and you don’t have to continue getting treatments in that area. I suppose it makes sense when I think about it, but I was still surprised.
“Note that botulinum toxin type A is 15,000 times more toxic than VX and 100,000 times more toxic than Sarin, two of the well known organophosphate nerve agents.“
https://gulflink.health.mil/bw_ii/bw_refs/n23en118/botulinum.htm#:~:text=Note%20that%20botulinum%20toxin%20type,well%20known%20organophosphate%20nerve%20agents.
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I think I finally have a story that is really truly worthy of this thread.
I was out to eat with coworkers, company-sponsored. I sat down with my delicious plate of Mediterranean food and realized I didn't grab silverware. My colleague points me in the right direction for plasticware, which I don't want to get because there is actual silverware at this place.
The coworker looks at me and says, I don't trust silverware from restaurants. I always go with plastic. Then they go on to explain how they actually THROW AWAY the real silverware from our company cafeteria to discourage its use.
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The double eyelid thing was fascinating to me. My now-husband had to explain what it was when we started dating. I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have never even noticed the difference if someone hadn’t pointed it out to me. Same with the nose bridge/no nose bridge thing. Now I can’t unsee it and find it sad that actors and other famous people all have nose bridges. Hopefully my kids can just view these differences as “looking more like mummy” and “looking more like baba” than any value judgement associated with them.
As I get old and saggy I find myself much less judge mental of anything people want to freely do to their own bodies. That said, we will still judge the expense if they can’t afford it.
And yes, LASIK is some of the best money I have spent.
The amount of people getting expensive cosmetic work done is shocking to me. Even basic Botox is like $300-500 per round (for the LEAST amount), and you need to do it 2x per year. Why drop $1,000 per year on a few wrinkles that just come back? That's $10,000 over 10 years ($13-14 with interest).
I'd rather have this $$ for something more interesting. People can put up with my squinty lines.
I read recently that at some point with the wrinkle relaxers the muscles sort of give up and you don’t have to continue getting treatments in that area. I suppose it makes sense when I think about it, but I was still surprised.
“Note that botulinum toxin type A is 15,000 times more toxic than VX and 100,000 times more toxic than Sarin, two of the well known organophosphate nerve agents.“
https://gulflink.health.mil/bw_ii/bw_refs/n23en118/botulinum.htm#:~:text=Note%20that%20botulinum%20toxin%20type,well%20known%20organophosphate%20nerve%20agents.
As they say, “dose makes the poison”.
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I think I finally have a story that is really truly worthy of this thread.
I was out to eat with coworkers, company-sponsored. I sat down with my delicious plate of Mediterranean food and realized I didn't grab silverware. My colleague points me in the right direction for plasticware, which I don't want to get because there is actual silverware at this place.
The coworker looks at me and says, I don't trust silverware from restaurants. I always go with plastic. Then they go on to explain how they actually THROW AWAY the real silverware from our company cafeteria to discourage its use.
Oh good lord, that is awful.
Do they have a problem with the reusable cookware and serving utensils in restaurants and cafeterias?
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I think I finally have a story that is really truly worthy of this thread.
I was out to eat with coworkers, company-sponsored. I sat down with my delicious plate of Mediterranean food and realized I didn't grab silverware. My colleague points me in the right direction for plasticware, which I don't want to get because there is actual silverware at this place.
The coworker looks at me and says, I don't trust silverware from restaurants. I always go with plastic. Then they go on to explain how they actually THROW AWAY the real silverware from our company cafeteria to discourage its use.
Oh good lord, that is awful.
Do they have a problem with the reusable cookware and serving utensils in restaurants and cafeterias?
Are they important? Do you like them?
Just asking, because people have been fired for a lot less. And contrary to most of them, this person deserves it.
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I think I finally have a story that is really truly worthy of this thread.
I was out to eat with coworkers, company-sponsored. I sat down with my delicious plate of Mediterranean food and realized I didn't grab silverware. My colleague points me in the right direction for plasticware, which I don't want to get because there is actual silverware at this place.
The coworker looks at me and says, I don't trust silverware from restaurants. I always go with plastic. Then they go on to explain how they actually THROW AWAY the real silverware from our company cafeteria to discourage its use.
Oh good lord, that is awful.
Do they have a problem with the reusable cookware and serving utensils in restaurants and cafeterias?
Are they important? Do you like them?
Just asking, because people have been fired for a lot less. And contrary to most of them, this person deserves it.
Yes - they do have a problem with serving utensils in restaurants, I'm not sure what they do if they eat out.
I wouldn't say this person is high ranking. I actually find them the most enjoyable person I work with and they have an awesome work ethic, but they're not management or anything. I certainly don't think they should be fired but I was pretty annoyed to hear this because my company only recently started using reusable utensils and I I'm an advocate for that sort of thing, if it wasn't obvious from me being mustachian to begin with.
I don't know if they consider it some sort of hygienic grassroots activism to hijack the cafeteria utensils- part of me was amused that they thought this would make some sort of impact. But I was mostly grossed out about the wastefulness.
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...
Yes - they do have a problem with serving utensils in restaurants, I'm not sure what they do if they eat out.
I wouldn't say this person is high ranking. I actually find them the most enjoyable person I work with and they have an awesome work ethic, but they're not management or anything. I certainly don't think they should be fired but I was pretty annoyed to hear this because my company only recently started using reusable utensils and I I'm an advocate for that sort of thing, if it wasn't obvious from me being mustachian to begin with.
I don't know if they consider it some sort of hygienic grassroots activism to hijack the cafeteria utensils- part of me was amused that they thought this would make some sort of impact. But I was mostly grossed out about the wastefulness.
Next time you go over to their work area throw out whatever of there's you would normally touch and bring your own. Then take yours back with you when you leave.
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I think I finally have a story that is really truly worthy of this thread.
I was out to eat with coworkers, company-sponsored. I sat down with my delicious plate of Mediterranean food and realized I didn't grab silverware. My colleague points me in the right direction for plasticware, which I don't want to get because there is actual silverware at this place.
The coworker looks at me and says, I don't trust silverware from restaurants. I always go with plastic. Then they go on to explain how they actually THROW AWAY the real silverware from our company cafeteria to discourage its use.
Oh good lord, that is awful.
Do they have a problem with the reusable cookware and serving utensils in restaurants and cafeterias?
Are they important? Do you like them?
Just asking, because people have been fired for a lot less. And contrary to most of them, this person deserves it.
Yes - they do have a problem with serving utensils in restaurants, I'm not sure what they do if they eat out.
I wouldn't say this person is high ranking. I actually find them the most enjoyable person I work with and they have an awesome work ethic, but they're not management or anything. I certainly don't think they should be fired but I was pretty annoyed to hear this because my company only recently started using reusable utensils and I I'm an advocate for that sort of thing, if it wasn't obvious from me being mustachian to begin with.
I don't know if they consider it some sort of hygienic grassroots activism to hijack the cafeteria utensils- part of me was amused that they thought this would make some sort of impact. But I was mostly grossed out about the wastefulness.
Regardless of whether they agree with the use of silverware or not, they have no right to throw away someone else’s belongings. If they do it often enough, it seems like it would be moving into fire-able territory.
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Throwing away silverware would also make me wonder what other company property that person's been throwing away for no good reason. If they don't have common sense and good judgment when it comes to that, what other stupid things are they doing on the job?
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Today at my gov customer site, heard two folks chatting. Dave Ramsey came up. They talked about paying off debts, paying off highest interest items first, all that good stuff. Then I heard one talking about the investment products from Ramsey. My ears perked up like a dog. The other said, no don't do that. He said he heard about index funds.
Well, I had to go over to their area to talk to a gov civilian. When I was done, I asked those two if they were contributing to the gov TSP. They said "just a little bit". Asked if they wanted more info and they said yes. Gave them info to Bogleheads' TSP page and also how to structure their contributions like a lazy portfolio. Then told them to make an investing plan and stick to it, gave them links to read including the one on this venerable forum.
Turns out they're budding Mustachians looking for deals, meal-prepping, etc, driving small fuel-efficient cars after being deployed overseas and learning to live below their means.
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Let them bloom into beautiful FIRE flowers!
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The double eyelid thing was fascinating to me. My now-husband had to explain what it was when we started dating. I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have never even noticed the difference if someone hadn’t pointed it out to me. Same with the nose bridge/no nose bridge thing. Now I can’t unsee it and find it sad that actors and other famous people all have nose bridges. Hopefully my kids can just view these differences as “looking more like mummy” and “looking more like baba” than any value judgement associated with them.
As I get old and saggy I find myself much less judge mental of anything people want to freely do to their own bodies. That said, we will still judge the expense if they can’t afford it.
And yes, LASIK is some of the best money I have spent.
The amount of people getting expensive cosmetic work done is shocking to me. Even basic Botox is like $300-500 per round (for the LEAST amount), and you need to do it 2x per year. Why drop $1,000 per year on a few wrinkles that just come back? That's $10,000 over 10 years ($13-14 with interest).
I'd rather have this $$ for something more interesting. People can put up with my squinty lines.
I read recently that at some point with the wrinkle relaxers the muscles sort of give up and you don’t have to continue getting treatments in that area. I suppose it makes sense when I think about it, but I was still surprised.
I used to have huge frown lines above my nose. In my forties, I decided to try botox. It really worked. I kept it up until I decided to chase FIRE furiously. The effects have been surprisingly long lasting. Twenty years later, it's still much improved. I think the temporary paralysis broke me of my unconscious frowning habit, which was probably related to poor eyesight. I'd totally do it again, but now I'm too old. I'm not going to pursue anything surgical.
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The double eyelid thing was fascinating to me. My now-husband had to explain what it was when we started dating. I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have never even noticed the difference if someone hadn’t pointed it out to me. Same with the nose bridge/no nose bridge thing. Now I can’t unsee it and find it sad that actors and other famous people all have nose bridges. Hopefully my kids can just view these differences as “looking more like mummy” and “looking more like baba” than any value judgement associated with them.
As I get old and saggy I find myself much less judge mental of anything people want to freely do to their own bodies. That said, we will still judge the expense if they can’t afford it.
And yes, LASIK is some of the best money I have spent.
The amount of people getting expensive cosmetic work done is shocking to me. Even basic Botox is like $300-500 per round (for the LEAST amount), and you need to do it 2x per year. Why drop $1,000 per year on a few wrinkles that just come back? That's $10,000 over 10 years ($13-14 with interest).
I'd rather have this $$ for something more interesting. People can put up with my squinty lines.
I read recently that at some point with the wrinkle relaxers the muscles sort of give up and you don’t have to continue getting treatments in that area. I suppose it makes sense when I think about it, but I was still surprised.
I used to have huge frown lines above my nose. In my forties, I decided to try botox. It really worked. I kept it up until I decided to chase FIRE furiously. The effects have been surprisingly long lasting. Twenty years later, it's still much improved. I think the temporary paralysis broke me of my unconscious frowning habit, which was probably related to poor eyesight. I'd totally do it again, but now I'm too old. I'm not going to pursue anything surgical.
For that type of money I'd rather get a fraxil laser treament. It may cost a grand or two but I think the results would be more significant.
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The double eyelid thing was fascinating to me. My now-husband had to explain what it was when we started dating. I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have never even noticed the difference if someone hadn’t pointed it out to me. Same with the nose bridge/no nose bridge thing. Now I can’t unsee it and find it sad that actors and other famous people all have nose bridges. Hopefully my kids can just view these differences as “looking more like mummy” and “looking more like baba” than any value judgement associated with them.
As I get old and saggy I find myself much less judge mental of anything people want to freely do to their own bodies. That said, we will still judge the expense if they can’t afford it.
And yes, LASIK is some of the best money I have spent.
The amount of people getting expensive cosmetic work done is shocking to me. Even basic Botox is like $300-500 per round (for the LEAST amount), and you need to do it 2x per year. Why drop $1,000 per year on a few wrinkles that just come back? That's $10,000 over 10 years ($13-14 with interest).
I'd rather have this $$ for something more interesting. People can put up with my squinty lines.
I read recently that at some point with the wrinkle relaxers the muscles sort of give up and you don’t have to continue getting treatments in that area. I suppose it makes sense when I think about it, but I was still surprised.
I used to have huge frown lines above my nose. In my forties, I decided to try botox. It really worked. I kept it up until I decided to chase FIRE furiously. The effects have been surprisingly long lasting. Twenty years later, it's still much improved. I think the temporary paralysis broke me of my unconscious frowning habit, which was probably related to poor eyesight. I'd totally do it again, but now I'm too old. I'm not going to pursue anything surgical.
That is encouraging to hear. I am part-way through a similar process. My father’s side of the family has huge grooves between the eyebrows from unconsciously squinting. I think I am being slowly trained out of it also.
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A bit of a sad story...I wish there was a way I could help but the tentative suggestions I've made have met with strong resistance.
A coworker with a preschool toddler at home is *desperate* to be able to stay home and raise her child. She likes her job but *hates* having to come into work every day and not be with her child. I think she is truly somewhat depressed and unhappy because of it. She wishes she did not *have* to work. Her and her husband keep separate finances. I suggested that maybe if she stayed home, they could cut expenses enough to afford it i.e. drop a car and therefore a car payment, insurance, gas, cook more, less eating out, less child car,etc etc. I asked how much her cell phone bill was since that is an area where most folks *vastly* overpay by hundreds of $/month. Her response....."I don't know, he pays that bill".
She has absolutely no idea what their total monthly expenses are but is 100% convinced there is no way for her to stay home and not work. It's tragic because being able to do so would be life changing. I suspect that if her and her spouse got on the same page and drilled down the true details of all their expenses, there's a good chance she could probably stay home. It boggles my mind that this is literally probably the most important issue in her life, but she isn't willing to put in the slightest amount of effort to see if it would actually be feasible.
Another coworker was complaining about barely treading water and picking up a 2nd job for extra money. As a couple they make six figures in a low-normal COL area. Mid 30's, kids. I suggested the $15 monthly cell phone plans to free up a bunch of money as they spend hundreds on their plan. Response....."I can't afford to buy the phone out from the contract I'm on".
She owes ~$500 on her cell phone. Mid 30's, six figure income, literally do not have $500 to their name to buy a cell phone and lower their monthly payments by $200/month forever. I wish there was a way to help people like this, but I realize they have to be willing to help themselves.
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Some people aren't actually looking for solutions (though they may sound like they are!) They just want to vent and let out their feelings. When they're actually ready to change, hopefully they will remember your advice.
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Yeah, this kind of stuff is so frustrating. I run into it all the time. It's like there is a wall in their brains - a wall that logic and common sense can't penetrate. Arguing won't help obviously, so there's really nothing you can do.
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I doubt that they don't actually have the $500... it's a polite way of saying "it's too much work to try to figure this out, and I'd rather complain and not create answers".
regarding the earlier post -- most people want to FIRE (or lose weight, or make any other kind of life change) so long as there is no sacrifice or inconvenience involved. That's why that mother is not going to quit her job or try to do anything to help solve her issue...
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I doubt that they don't actually have the $500... it's a polite way of saying "it's too much work to try to figure this out, and I'd rather complain and not create answers".
regarding the earlier post -- most people want to FIRE (or lose weight, or make any other kind of life change) so long as there is no sacrifice or inconvenience involved. That's why that mother is not going to quit her job or try to do anything to help solve her issue...
Funny, my first thought was that she was afraid of her husband.
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I doubt that they don't actually have the $500... it's a polite way of saying "it's too much work to try to figure this out, and I'd rather complain and not create answers".
regarding the earlier post -- most people want to FIRE (or lose weight, or make any other kind of life change) so long as there is no sacrifice or inconvenience involved. That's why that mother is not going to quit her job or try to do anything to help solve her issue...
Funny, my first thought was that she was afraid of her husband.
This is close to what I thought - fear of the husband, or at least a lack of trust that she & the child would be secure were she to become so vulnerable. She sounds like she's framing an impossibility to avoid the need to confront a real fear.
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I used to have huge frown lines above my nose. In my forties, I decided to try botox. It really worked. I kept it up until I decided to chase FIRE furiously. The effects have been surprisingly long lasting. Twenty years later, it's still much improved. I think the temporary paralysis broke me of my unconscious frowning habit, which was probably related to poor eyesight. I'd totally do it again, but now I'm too old. I'm not going to pursue anything surgical.
I also used to frown a lot when I had to go to work
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I used to have huge frown lines above my nose. In my forties, I decided to try botox. It really worked. I kept it up until I decided to chase FIRE furiously. The effects have been surprisingly long lasting. Twenty years later, it's still much improved. I think the temporary paralysis broke me of my unconscious frowning habit, which was probably related to poor eyesight. I'd totally do it again, but now I'm too old. I'm not going to pursue anything surgical.
I also used to frown a lot when I had to go to work
Touche!
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Ah, a tale of two partners, who own the company I work for. Five years ago, Partner A moved out of state and now works remotely, and Partner B is on site. The company is quite profitable, but came from frugal, garage-startup roots. We're talking DIYing car and home repair, driving 15+-year-old cars, shopping thrift stores, etc. It has been interesting to watch the two families over the past few years. Partner A has embarked on several massive projects on his home, including a pool and a second garage, both of which are stuck at 80% done (functional but not finished). And now Partner A is making plans for a pool house. Meanwhile, their *actual* house, which was built about 30 years ago, is still in the state it was in when they bought it 5 years ago, with 20 years of deferred maintenance. The 1-acre lot has served to give Partner A an excuse to buy a tractor, too. And a pickup and a Tesla, maybe two.
Meanwhile, partner B is almost as frugal as ever, although he did recently break down and spent $10k on an almost-new (salvage title) Honda Fit. His family also drives a 10-year-old minivan and a 20-year-old Honda Accord with 275k miles.
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Since I'm self-employed and the only other employee on site is my wife, there's not much to overhear at work. However, I'm also in the National Guard so civilian jobs there range from student/unemployed, to working for the government, private sector, or self-employed.
My newest direct report runs a financial advisory practice and was remarking how he essentially invests all his earnings and then borrows from that at 1.5% to live on. This is a fairly typical strategy for the very wealthy who can easily use massive amounts of equity in a business as collateral for enough loans to let them live off borrowed money without actually having any taxable income. It was just surprising to hear it from someone in their early 30s who probably makes at most low 6 figures. I'm not sure if he's really able to get what is basically a margin loan for as low as 1.5% right now, that may be a figure from a year or two ago that he's anchored on. Still, it's more encouraging than hearing how someone got a great deal and only spent $70k on a giant pickup truck for their daily commute.
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Since I'm self-employed and the only other employee on site is my wife, there's not much to overhear at work. However, I'm also in the National Guard so civilian jobs there range from student/unemployed, to working for the government, private sector, or self-employed.
My newest direct report runs a financial advisory practice and was remarking how he essentially invests all his earnings and then borrows from that at 1.5% to live on. This is a fairly typical strategy for the very wealthy who can easily use massive amounts of equity in a business as collateral for enough loans to let them live off borrowed money without actually having any taxable income. It was just surprising to hear it from someone in their early 30s who probably makes at most low 6 figures. I'm not sure if he's really able to get what is basically a margin loan for as low as 1.5% right now, that may be a figure from a year or two ago that he's anchored on. Still, it's more encouraging than hearing how someone got a great deal and only spent $70k on a giant pickup truck for their daily commute.
I know a 401(k) borrowing hack that's a little bit like what you describe, but there are some down sides besides missing out on long-term market gains. In the event of an employment change such as a job loss, the whole debt is called. If the borrower can't pay, the loan is treated as a withdrawal and penalties kick in.
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I know a 401(k) borrowing hack that's a little bit like what you describe, but there are some down sides besides missing out on long-term market gains. In the event of an employment change such as a job loss, the whole debt is called. If the borrower can't pay, the loan is treated as a withdrawal and penalties kick in.
That's how we got the down payment on out new house before selling our old house. Essentially it functioned as a bridge loan.
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I know a 401(k) borrowing hack that's a little bit like what you describe, but there are some down sides besides missing out on long-term market gains. In the event of an employment change such as a job loss, the whole debt is called. If the borrower can't pay, the loan is treated as a withdrawal and penalties kick in.
That's how we got the down payment on out new house before selling our old house. Essentially it functioned as a bridge loan.
That's how we were able to make an all cash offer on our latest rental, giving us the edge over other very competitive offers. As soon as renovations are complete and it's rented, we'll mortgage it and pay back the loan. Same bridge loan effect.
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At the customer site: Military and government folks patting themselves on their back for turning in their $750+/month lease on a gas-guzzling truck or huge SUV or performance ICE car for a $750/month Lucid Air Pure EV lease. Or a Tesla Model S/X lease. Or turning in one gas guzzler lease for another of the latest model. Military folks and their Stellantis/Nissan purchases/leases - match made in debt heaven/hell.
Then I read GDP was 4.9%, red hot. Of course, these consumers, such as people in my workplace, get the credit for "spend baby, spend". Awesome!
Also, same people saying we need to do something about the record breaking temps this summer and climate change.
Cognitive dissonance? Military Intelligence? Government Efficiency?
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Clearly the socialist governmetn is at fault for the high temperatures!
Even though it's clear that the hot economy has caused it.
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When I first heard of "monolid", I thought that for these people their upper and lower eyelid must be one. You know: just have one eyelid per eye instead of two. But I couldn't see how that would work? And I had never seen anyone with that. But after googling I found out that it is, indeed, about missing a wrinkle in your upper eyelid. Sigh.
At work, a project was cancelled, the manager was frustrated and sad about that and then bought everybody (20+ employees) a small present as "retail therapy" for herself. She even mentioned the words "retail therapy". I got colorful napkins (we do not use napkins when we eat) and two candles of a size that i don't have holders for. I thanked her and have since donated these items to a secondhand store. May someone be happy with them. I'm guessing the 50 euros or so that the manager spent will not be from her purse but company's money (booked to the "employee gifts" account).
Otherwise I must say that at my new workplace so far I have encountered much less stories worthy of being posted here. My colleagues might actually be smart(er) with money. Good for them!
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At drill last weekend I heard a young Soldier telling his buddy that his fiancé's birthday was coming up and he wanted to get her something really nice since she makes his lunches, washes his clothes, etc.
He was going to spend about $2,500 to get her a new snowboard and all the associated gear. No idea what this Soldier does on the civilian side but that just seems like an obscene amount to spend on a birthday gift.
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At drill last weekend I heard a young Soldier telling his buddy that his fiancé's birthday was coming up and he wanted to get her something really nice since she makes his lunches, washes his clothes, etc.
He was going to spend about $2,500 to get her a new snowboard and all the associated gear. No idea what this Soldier does on the civilian side but that just seems like an obscene amount to spend on a birthday gift.
If they go snowboarding a lot and her gear is junk, this makes perfect sense. She is his fiancee, after all, not "just a girlfriend".
Disclaimer - this was written by the mother of a snowboarder and the mother-in-law of a snowboarder, and when they were DINKs I can really seeing them doing this for each other.
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A bit of a sad story...I wish there was a way I could help but the tentative suggestions I've made have met with strong resistance.
A coworker with a preschool toddler at home is *desperate* to be able to stay home and raise her child. She likes her job but *hates* having to come into work every day and not be with her child. I think she is truly somewhat depressed and unhappy because of it. She wishes she did not *have* to work. Her and her husband keep separate finances. I suggested that maybe if she stayed home, they could cut expenses enough to afford it i.e. drop a car and therefore a car payment, insurance, gas, cook more, less eating out, less child car,etc etc. I asked how much her cell phone bill was since that is an area where most folks *vastly* overpay by hundreds of $/month. Her response....."I don't know, he pays that bill".
She has absolutely no idea what their total monthly expenses are but is 100% convinced there is no way for her to stay home and not work. It's tragic because being able to do so would be life changing. I suspect that if her and her spouse got on the same page and drilled down the true details of all their expenses, there's a good chance she could probably stay home. It boggles my mind that this is literally probably the most important issue in her life, but she isn't willing to put in the slightest amount of effort to see if it would actually be feasible.
Another coworker was complaining about barely treading water and picking up a 2nd job for extra money. As a couple they make six figures in a low-normal COL area. Mid 30's, kids. I suggested the $15 monthly cell phone plans to free up a bunch of money as they spend hundreds on their plan. Response....."I can't afford to buy the phone out from the contract I'm on".
She owes ~$500 on her cell phone. Mid 30's, six figure income, literally do not have $500 to their name to buy a cell phone and lower their monthly payments by $200/month forever. I wish there was a way to help people like this, but I realize they have to be willing to help themselves.
I sometimes think about printing up 100 business cards with the top 10 FIRE blogs/forums. Just hand these out to people who express frustration about any matters financial. I've tried to make constructive suggestions but without the whole picture, its never very good quality information. Plus, you never know when people are being honest or spinning their stories.
I'm wasting my breath. I don't want to be anyone's financial counselor. I already do that for people and their cars and their computers. Their financial situation is really none of my business. I do want them to know that being a "typical consumer" is not their only option in life nor is it optimal.
I also don't want to load the forums with people who will never take the topic seriously. Those folks probably belong on some other forum for a moment or two first.