Overheard at Work 2

[Rural]

From the French word « tranche » meaning “slice”. :)

I love how so many fancy words in English are just a normal French word meaning the same thing.

It's all because of the Normans.

[SwordGuy]

I had a coworker get a bit snarky with me after hearing that I went to Hamilton this weekend. "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money" We were talking about groceries last week and she admitted she spends $800 a month for her and her husband; that's $500 more than we spend! Really wanted to point out that she is spending $6K a year more than us on groceries and could go to any show she could possibly want for that much money. Our season tickets, which these were part of, cost us just $600 and include 7 shows.

I don't accept snarky comments.   I prefer to toss some trenchant observations about the snark back, pretty much like a handgrenade into their foxhole.   It tends to discourage them from snarking at or near me again.

Then again, I had FU money.   But the real defense is that people who do that kind of snark do it to any and all possible victims, so you've got lots of passive support out there waiting to cheer you on.

Her: "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money!"

Me: "Sure is!   I had a great time!   I've heard you say you spend $800 a month on groceries for you and your husband.   We spend $300 a month for the 3 of us.  That's, let see, $500 per month times 12 months, why, that's $6000 more than us on just groceries!   That's how we could afford that show.   But hey, enough about me, you're clearly the expert here on big spending!  Tell us more!"

I don’t get why “must be nice” is even snarky.  I mean I get the intent and tone are key here, but objectively it is nice.  If someone said that to me, even sneakily, my response would probably just be “yeah it is nice”

I made the assumptions that the original poster knows mean-spirited snark vs other kinds of comments.  It's not an unreasonable assumption to make.   I also made the assumption that there was enough pattern of that behavior that all doubt about the mean spiritedness had been removed.   (Sometimes people are just socially awkward, not mean.)

I believe that if people are being mean on a repeated basis, they need to be taught to stop doing that.   If I choose a moment when the snark has targetted me, it's a way to defend other people without putting them in the spotlight, like it would if I stepped in to defend them when they got snarked.

[Linea_Norway]

I'm damn impressed by 75%.  I'm only at about 28% until we recover from the trainwreck that was 2018.  But even that's up from about 19%.

That is simple: I counted the amount of money I had transferred to our stock accounts, as part of our nett income. So I just calculated savings rate, not stash growth.

to clarify:  if you took 100k home after taxes, you invested 75k in stocks?  not including home equity.

Yes.
We haven't had a mortgage for the last 13 years or so and that of course accelerated our savings rate. Our stash didn't grow more than a tiny bit in 2018. So the savings just went into a black hole, called the stock market.

[JZinCO]

I'm going to throw out a second-hand 'heard at work'.
So I bought a home. And apparently it's the equivalent of having a birthday. I am emotionally pleased with my decision but I don't see it as a a celebratory thing. The math works out to being somewhat equivalent to renting (The NYTimes Rent vs Buy tradeoff calculator truly applies to me because I will be diverting cash once destined for market investments to pay the mortgage). So financially it's close to a wash at face value, though I will rent out a room so I will come out ahead.
At any rate I keep having these conversations:
CW: I head you bought a place!
Me: Yup
CW: Congratulations, you're way better off and no longer throwing money away.
Me: Thanks.
CW: [Sensing my blank expression] Are you happy?
Me: Yeah
I think the several years of 10% appreciation in my locale are painting the picture that the only way to get ahead is to buy a primary home...Coworkers cite the recent stock market correction but conveniently forget the entirety of the bull run, long-term market perfomances, long-term primary home valuations, carrying costs of owning a home, etc. No coworker has been biased the other way ,e.g. 'Yeah, I prefer renting because of the flexibility', etc...

[LPG]

I'm going to throw out a second-hand 'heard at work'.
So I bought a home. And apparently it's the equivalent of having a birthday. I am emotionally pleased with my decision but I don't see it as a a celebratory thing. The math works out to being somewhat equivalent to renting (The NYTimes Rent vs Buy tradeoff calculator truly applies to me because I will be diverting cash once destined for market investments to pay the mortgage). So financially it's close to a wash at face value, though I will rent out a room so I will come out ahead.
At any rate I keep having these conversations:
CW: I head you bought a place!
Me: Yup
CW: Congratulations, you're way better off and no longer throwing money away.
Me: Thanks.
CW: [Sensing my blank expression] Are you happy?
Me: Yeah
I think the several years of 10% appreciation in my locale are painting the picture that the only way to get ahead is to buy a primary home...Coworkers cite the recent stock market correction but conveniently forget the entirety of the bull run, long-term market perfomances, long-term primary home valuations, carrying costs of owning a home, etc. No coworker has been biased the other way ,e.g. 'Yeah, I prefer renting because of the flexibility', etc...

I'm not sure that this perception is limited to the recent "several years of 10% appreciation". At least in the US the middle class is convinced that buying a home is the single best investment you can ever make, and anything else guarantees that you'll be poor forever. It's so extreme that people try to convince me to buy a condo at ~$2500/month with only ~$400 going to principal at first rather than renting for ~$1500. Right, because throwing $2100/month into interest, taxes, HOA is worth it for $400/mo in principal, but throwing $1500/mo into rent and $1000/mo into the stock market is throwing money away? Such a very ingrained assumption that people rarely look into the numbers before making a decision.

[JZinCO]

Yeah you're right.
Talking to coworkers I found that the average down payment is 3-5%. I put down 10% and many of them gave an audible 'wow'.
side: to avoid facepunches, please know my PMI is $420 annually, effectively increasing my rate by 0.5% for 8 years. I haven't yet decided if it's worth extra payments to get to 20% or investing.

[markbike528CBX]

From the French word « tranche » meaning “slice”. :)

I love how so many fancy words in English are just a normal French word meaning the same thing.

I once described myself and an American colleague (a one-time, near-Olympic heavyweight weightlifter) as the minions of one of our French colleagues(a petite younger lady).

And hilarity ensued.   When the laughter died down, our French colleagues noted that mignon implied little dancing gay boys at the French court.  And hilarity ensued.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mignon   open up the the English historical noun dropdown

or the French -
mignon (feminine singular mignonne, masculine plural mignons, feminine plural mignonnes)
cute (of a baby, an animal, etc.)
cute (sexually attractive).      -- neither of which really applies to us.

[ysette9]

I call my little girls “mignonne” all the time. ;)

Your story brings a smile to my face.

[Ever_Anon]

I don't usually discuss finances with my coworkers, but I just had a weird conversation with one of them. We're contractors, and about 1.5 years ago our contract was taken over by a different company. Today a coworker asked me if I'd had a 401k with the previous company, and if so what I'd done with the money when the contract switched.

This guy is about 20 years older then me. He's definitely held way more professional jobs. But he apparently left that balance sitting there for 1.5 years without thinking about what to do with it. Our 401k options at the first company were horrible. He's probably lost a fuckton of money in fees.  Plus he admitted he has another 401k lurking somewhere he's done nothing with.

Okay, whatever, a lot of Americans don't roll over their 401ks. Except during our conversation he said "I hope I didn't miss the window to get that money." Which implies that he actually thought there was a possibility that whatever money he contributed would disappear if he didn't do something about it, and then left it there anyway.

He also apparently never set up a 401k with our current company, because he "needed the money."

I hope he's got a trust fund or something waiting in the wings, because otherwise I fear for his ability to ever retire.

[gaja]

I had a coworker get a bit snarky with me after hearing that I went to Hamilton this weekend. "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money" We were talking about groceries last week and she admitted she spends $800 a month for her and her husband; that's $500 more than we spend! Really wanted to point out that she is spending $6K a year more than us on groceries and could go to any show she could possibly want for that much money. Our season tickets, which these were part of, cost us just $600 and include 7 shows.

I don't accept snarky comments.   I prefer to toss some trenchant observations about the snark back, pretty much like a handgrenade into their foxhole.   It tends to discourage them from snarking at or near me again.

Then again, I had FU money.   But the real defense is that people who do that kind of snark do it to any and all possible victims, so you've got lots of passive support out there waiting to cheer you on.

Her: "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money!"

Me: "Sure is!   I had a great time!   I've heard you say you spend $800 a month on groceries for you and your husband.   We spend $300 a month for the 3 of us.  That's, let see, $500 per month times 12 months, why, that's $6000 more than us on just groceries!   That's how we could afford that show.   But hey, enough about me, you're clearly the expert here on big spending!  Tell us more!"

I don’t get why “must be nice” is even snarky.  I mean I get the intent and tone are key here, but objectively it is nice.  If someone said that to me, even sneakily, my response would probably just be “yeah it is nice”

I made the assumptions that the original poster knows mean-spirited snark vs other kinds of comments.  It's not an unreasonable assumption to make.   I also made the assumption that there was enough pattern of that behavior that all doubt about the mean spiritedness had been removed.   (Sometimes people are just socially awkward, not mean.)

I believe that if people are being mean on a repeated basis, they need to be taught to stop doing that.   If I choose a moment when the snark has targetted me, it's a way to defend other people without putting them in the spotlight, like it would if I stepped in to defend them when they got snarked.

Sometimes, the most efficient way to teach that lesson, is to be extraordinary nice and positive. "Oh, yes! I'm so glad you are happy for us, we enjoyed it so so much! [big smile and small hug]. All the money we don't waste on other stuff really pays off when we can do this type of thing. I am soooo glad we didn't waste it on mindless shopping or big food bills. You know, I heard some people spend $800/month on food! That must be so limiting!"

[Sugaree]

I don't usually discuss finances with my coworkers, but I just had a weird conversation with one of them. We're contractors, and about 1.5 years ago our contract was taken over by a different company. Today a coworker asked me if I'd had a 401k with the previous company, and if so what I'd done with the money when the contract switched.

This guy is about 20 years older then me. He's definitely held way more professional jobs. But he apparently left that balance sitting there for 1.5 years without thinking about what to do with it. Our 401k options at the first company were horrible. He's probably lost a fuckton of money in fees.  Plus he admitted he has another 401k lurking somewhere he's done nothing with.

Okay, whatever, a lot of Americans don't roll over their 401ks. Except during our conversation he said "I hope I didn't miss the window to get that money." Which implies that he actually thought there was a possibility that whatever money he contributed would disappear if he didn't do something about it, and then left it there anyway.

He also apparently never set up a 401k with our current company, because he "needed the money."

I hope he's got a trust fund or something waiting in the wings, because otherwise I fear for his ability to ever retire.

I left a small retirement account when I left a job about 10 years ago.  My departure, and subsequent financial life, was...not good.  I managed to follow the account for awhile.  I didn't have anything to roll it into, so I just left it alone.  Eventually, I lost track of it.  About a year ago, I tried talking to the last known management company and all they could tell me was that it had been transfered somewhere else.  A few days ago I got a letter saying that a new company has it.  I tried to set up that account online this moring to roll it into my TSP.  I've been divorced and remarried since then, so it looks like proving my identity is going to be a nightmare.

[Just Joe]

$500 a month for cell phones and cable TV!

By my MMM Inc. mental yardstick that sounds so expensive.

My brain was automatically running down the opportunity cost.

[SwordGuy]

I had a coworker get a bit snarky with me after hearing that I went to Hamilton this weekend. "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money" We were talking about groceries last week and she admitted she spends $800 a month for her and her husband; that's $500 more than we spend! Really wanted to point out that she is spending $6K a year more than us on groceries and could go to any show she could possibly want for that much money. Our season tickets, which these were part of, cost us just $600 and include 7 shows.

I don't accept snarky comments.   I prefer to toss some trenchant observations about the snark back, pretty much like a handgrenade into their foxhole.   It tends to discourage them from snarking at or near me again.

Then again, I had FU money.   But the real defense is that people who do that kind of snark do it to any and all possible victims, so you've got lots of passive support out there waiting to cheer you on.

Her: "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money!"

Me: "Sure is!   I had a great time!   I've heard you say you spend $800 a month on groceries for you and your husband.   We spend $300 a month for the 3 of us.  That's, let see, $500 per month times 12 months, why, that's $6000 more than us on just groceries!   That's how we could afford that show.   But hey, enough about me, you're clearly the expert here on big spending!  Tell us more!"

I don’t get why “must be nice” is even snarky.  I mean I get the intent and tone are key here, but objectively it is nice.  If someone said that to me, even sneakily, my response would probably just be “yeah it is nice”

I made the assumptions that the original poster knows mean-spirited snark vs other kinds of comments.  It's not an unreasonable assumption to make.   I also made the assumption that there was enough pattern of that behavior that all doubt about the mean spiritedness had been removed.   (Sometimes people are just socially awkward, not mean.)

I believe that if people are being mean on a repeated basis, they need to be taught to stop doing that.   If I choose a moment when the snark has targetted me, it's a way to defend other people without putting them in the spotlight, like it would if I stepped in to defend them when they got snarked.

Sometimes, the most efficient way to teach that lesson, is to be extraordinary nice and positive. "Oh, yes! I'm so glad you are happy for us, we enjoyed it so so much! [big smile and small hug]. All the money we don't waste on other stuff really pays off when we can do this type of thing. I am soooo glad we didn't waste it on mindless shopping or big food bills. You know, I heard some people spend $800/month on food! That must be so limiting!"

That's an excellent method to use.   

If it works, all the better.   If it doesn't stop the behavior, one can escalate.   Some people can take a hint, others a blunt comment, and some need a clue-by-four upside the head.  It's usually best to start small and work up as needed.

[hudsoncat]

$500 a month for cell phones and cable TV!

By my MMM Inc. mental yardstick that sounds so expensive.

My brain was automatically running down the opportunity cost.

My dad who is otherwise fairly frugal and a good saver, spends $190+ per month for cable. Just cable (internet is a local company and cheap, cell phones through his work). Just so he can have the five channels he likes to watch. It makes my eye twitch a little every time he mentions it. Usually while complaining about the quality of service.

To bring this back around to the topic of the thread... a co-worker mentioned today in passing that they had a water heater go out this weekend. They replaced it, but now are $300 short until next pay day in two weeks for their monthly budget and they have to decide which bills to pay and which to see if they can get an extension.

Oomph... I know we hear this stuff and we see the headlines that most "Americans are $400 away from disaster" (Or whatever the exact amount is), but it's hard to imagine the stress of living like that all the time.

[Cassie]

HUD, if your dad is older he may watch more tv.  We never had it when raising the kids but have it now in our 60’s.  We watch tv more than we used to when working. We pay 200 for cable, internet and house phone. If we let the house phone go it’s more expensive.

[hudsoncat]

HUD, if your dad is older he may watch more tv.  We never had it when raising the kids but have it now in our 60’s.  We watch tv more than we used to when working. We pay 200 for cable, internet and house phone. If we let the house phone go it’s more expensive.

He totally does. And I'd never tell him I thought it was crazy... but it still makes my eye twitch a bit to think about paying that much for cable alone! It really amuses me more than anything. Dude will walk around a store three times picking up and putting back something he actually needs, but damned if he'll ever get rid of the western channel! He is super easy to get a gift for though, all I have to do is ask my step-mom what he has been talking himself out of for the last six months. ha!

Please note this is all said with affection. My dad is the best.

[markbike528CBX]

HUD, if your dad is older he may watch more tv.  We never had it when raising the kids but have it now in our 60’s.  We watch tv more than we used to when working. We pay 200 for cable, internet and house phone. If we let the house phone go it’s more expensive.

He totally does. And I'd never tell him I thought it was crazy... but it still makes my eye twitch a bit to think about paying that much for cable alone! It really amuses me more than anything. Dude will walk around a store three times picking up and putting back something he actually needs, but damned if he'll ever get rid of the western channel! He is super easy to get a gift for though, all I have to do is ask my step-mom what he has been talking himself out of for the last six months. ha!

Please note this is all said with affection. My dad is the best.

Some cable companies have ala-carte options.  I've gotten some flyers from my local internet/cable co.
 I think you might have to look really hard to find them though, and the ala-carte options are basically one level above standard cable (ie. not premium channels).

[galliver]

He also apparently never set up a 401k with our current company, because he "needed the money."

I recently started my first professional job with a 401k (after grad school). Due to Reasons, my company didn't do 401k deductions until last month, so I got to compare my paycheck with and without deductions, without willingly forgoing them. Turns out due to the tax exemption alone, I get almost $1.60 in my 401k per dollar out of my paycheck. Close to $600/mo if maxing it out, before match, etc!

I can't afford *not* to contribute, I need the money! ;)

[letsdoit]

I had a coworker get a bit snarky with me after hearing that I went to Hamilton this weekend. "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money" We were talking about groceries last week and she admitted she spends $800 a month for her and her husband; that's $500 more than we spend! Really wanted to point out that she is spending $6K a year more than us on groceries and could go to any show she could possibly want for that much money. Our season tickets, which these were part of, cost us just $600 and include 7 shows.

I don't accept snarky comments.   I prefer to toss some trenchant observations about the snark back, pretty much like a handgrenade into their foxhole.   It tends to discourage them from snarking at or near me again.

Then again, I had FU money.   But the real defense is that people who do that kind of snark do it to any and all possible victims, so you've got lots of passive support out there waiting to cheer you on.

Her: "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money!"

Me: "Sure is!   I had a great time!   I've heard you say you spend $800 a month on groceries for you and your husband.   We spend $300 a month for the 3 of us.  That's, let see, $500 per month times 12 months, why, that's $6000 more than us on just groceries!   That's how we could afford that show.   But hey, enough about me, you're clearly the expert here on big spending!  Tell us more!"

I don’t get why “must be nice” is even snarky.  I mean I get the intent and tone are key here, but objectively it is nice.  If someone said that to me, even sneakily, my response would probably just be “yeah it is nice”

I made the assumptions that the original poster knows mean-spirited snark vs other kinds of comments.  It's not an unreasonable assumption to make.   I also made the assumption that there was enough pattern of that behavior that all doubt about the mean spiritedness had been removed.   (Sometimes people are just socially awkward, not mean.)

I believe that if people are being mean on a repeated basis, they need to be taught to stop doing that.   If I choose a moment when the snark has targetted me, it's a way to defend other people without putting them in the spotlight, like it would if I stepped in to defend them when they got snarked.

Sometimes, the most efficient way to teach that lesson, is to be extraordinary nice and positive. "Oh, yes! I'm so glad you are happy for us, we enjoyed it so so much! [big smile and small hug]. All the money we don't waste on other stuff really pays off when we can do this type of thing. I am soooo glad we didn't waste it on mindless shopping or big food bills. You know, I heard some people spend $800/month on food! That must be so limiting!"

uh, we spend $800 on food a month, and without any take out and hardly any comfort food 

[jps]

I had a coworker get a bit snarky with me after hearing that I went to Hamilton this weekend. "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money" We were talking about groceries last week and she admitted she spends $800 a month for her and her husband; that's $500 more than we spend! Really wanted to point out that she is spending $6K a year more than us on groceries and could go to any show she could possibly want for that much money. Our season tickets, which these were part of, cost us just $600 and include 7 shows.

I don't accept snarky comments.   I prefer to toss some trenchant observations about the snark back, pretty much like a handgrenade into their foxhole.   It tends to discourage them from snarking at or near me again.

Then again, I had FU money.   But the real defense is that people who do that kind of snark do it to any and all possible victims, so you've got lots of passive support out there waiting to cheer you on.

Her: "Must be nice to be able to spend all that money!"

Me: "Sure is!   I had a great time!   I've heard you say you spend $800 a month on groceries for you and your husband.   We spend $300 a month for the 3 of us.  That's, let see, $500 per month times 12 months, why, that's $6000 more than us on just groceries!   That's how we could afford that show.   But hey, enough about me, you're clearly the expert here on big spending!  Tell us more!"

I don’t get why “must be nice” is even snarky.  I mean I get the intent and tone are key here, but objectively it is nice.  If someone said that to me, even sneakily, my response would probably just be “yeah it is nice”

I made the assumptions that the original poster knows mean-spirited snark vs other kinds of comments.  It's not an unreasonable assumption to make.   I also made the assumption that there was enough pattern of that behavior that all doubt about the mean spiritedness had been removed.   (Sometimes people are just socially awkward, not mean.)

I believe that if people are being mean on a repeated basis, they need to be taught to stop doing that.   If I choose a moment when the snark has targetted me, it's a way to defend other people without putting them in the spotlight, like it would if I stepped in to defend them when they got snarked.

Sometimes, the most efficient way to teach that lesson, is to be extraordinary nice and positive. "Oh, yes! I'm so glad you are happy for us, we enjoyed it so so much! [big smile and small hug]. All the money we don't waste on other stuff really pays off when we can do this type of thing. I am soooo glad we didn't waste it on mindless shopping or big food bills. You know, I heard some people spend $800/month on food! That must be so limiting!"

uh, we spend $800 on food a month, and without any take out and hardly any comfort food

Probably depends on how many people are in your household.

[JZinCO]

To bring this back around to the topic of the thread... a co-worker mentioned today in passing that they had a water heater go out this weekend. They replaced it, but now are $300 short until next pay day in two weeks for their monthly budget and they have to decide which bills to pay and which to see if they can get an extension.

Oomph... I know we hear this stuff and we see the headlines that most "Americans are $400 away from disaster" (Or whatever the exact amount is), but it's hard to imagine the stress of living like that all the time.

There's a mental hurdle that I can't get over... How is it that people pre-allocate every dollar to some expense before the money arrives? I mean I went through this when I was poor, but I find it hard to accomplish when there is alot of cash flowing. I guess someone is like 'I have X surplus so I can afford Y each month. Oh, our son likes soccer and that costs Z per month. We still have X-Y available so now we have X-Y-Z.. ad infinitum until the remainder is close to 0.'. But I mean.. I just don't understand that decision making process.
I really enjoy having flexibility to change my cash flow's allocation as life changes and that my bank account ebbs and flows as savings go in or one-time big expenses go out.

[ixtap]

To bring this back around to the topic of the thread... a co-worker mentioned today in passing that they had a water heater go out this weekend. They replaced it, but now are $300 short until next pay day in two weeks for their monthly budget and they have to decide which bills to pay and which to see if they can get an extension.

Oomph... I know we hear this stuff and we see the headlines that most "Americans are $400 away from disaster" (Or whatever the exact amount is), but it's hard to imagine the stress of living like that all the time.

There's a mental hurdle that I can't get over... How is it that people pre-allocate every dollar to some expense before the money arrives? I mean I went through this when I was poor, but I find it hard to accomplish when there is alot of cash flowing. I guess someone is like 'I have X surplus so I can afford Y each month. Oh, our son likes soccer and that costs Z per month. We still have X-Y available so now we have X-Y-Z.. ad infinitum until the remainder is close to 0.'. But I mean.. I just don't understand that decision making process.
I really enjoy having flexibility to change my cash flow's allocation as life changes and that my bank account ebbs and flows as savings go in or one-time big expenses go out.

Part of it comes down to "If I can afford the payments, I can afford the thing."

Being on the savings side of the mental hurdle is why I am most impressed with people who come here and make the lifestyle changes.

[Sugaree]

To bring this back around to the topic of the thread... a co-worker mentioned today in passing that they had a water heater go out this weekend. They replaced it, but now are $300 short until next pay day in two weeks for their monthly budget and they have to decide which bills to pay and which to see if they can get an extension.

Oomph... I know we hear this stuff and we see the headlines that most "Americans are $400 away from disaster" (Or whatever the exact amount is), but it's hard to imagine the stress of living like that all the time.

There's a mental hurdle that I can't get over... How is it that people pre-allocate every dollar to some expense before the money arrives? I mean I went through this when I was poor, but I find it hard to accomplish when there is alot of cash flowing. I guess someone is like 'I have X surplus so I can afford Y each month. Oh, our son likes soccer and that costs Z per month. We still have X-Y available so now we have X-Y-Z.. ad infinitum until the remainder is close to 0.'. But I mean.. I just don't understand that decision making process.
I really enjoy having flexibility to change my cash flow's allocation as life changes and that my bank account ebbs and flows as savings go in or one-time big expenses go out.

I do that....with the caveat that everything that doesn't get allocated to something else is designated as savings (or, unfortunately, loan repayments at the moment).  Day to day, it keeps me accountable.  Freedom for me is knowing that I have $X to spend on Y so I don't stress about spending it because that's what it's there for.  I also know that if I run out of money for Y that I shouldn't pull it from Z because it's a different color of money, so to speak.  That's not to say that I can't change the color of some money, but it's a thought out process instead of on the fly. 

[bluebelle]

To bring this back around to the topic of the thread... a co-worker mentioned today in passing that they had a water heater go out this weekend. They replaced it, but now are $300 short until next pay day in two weeks for their monthly budget and they have to decide which bills to pay and which to see if they can get an extension.

Oomph... I know we hear this stuff and we see the headlines that most "Americans are $400 away from disaster" (Or whatever the exact amount is), but it's hard to imagine the stress of living like that all the time.

I've always wondered how they phrase the question on the survey.....depending on how they asked the question, I might answer yes.....there are times when there is less than $100 in my checking account (I don't count the $2,000 that keeps in above the minimum because I'm not paying fees for all the features the account has).....and since we're FI, just not RE (next year), it's not like I don't have the money 'somewhere', just not in my chequing account.   I am a cynic, and I often read survey questions and know what answer they're trying to elicit.  And I'm also damn good at manipulating statistics to produce the chart that 'proves' whatever point I want to make. 
But I also know I don't live in the 'real' world, and DH and I joke about living 'pay cheque to pay cheque', but that's only because I moved the money out of the chequing account on pay day to a higher purpose.  99% of all our spending goes on a credit card, for an unexpected expense doesn't really show up for a month.....and given that time and our cash flow, it would no longer be an unexpected expense, it would be in my spreadsheet (I love spreadsheets)......I also know it's a gift of genetics and environment that allows me to do a job that pays me well, and a brain that thinks the way it does (the way this community does)

[mustachepungoeshere]

I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues buys breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.

Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.

Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.

But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.

And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.

Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.

Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.

But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.

And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?

I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?

[mustachepungoeshere]

I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.

Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.

Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.

But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.

And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?

I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?

She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.

She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.

[jps]

I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.

Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.

Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.

But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.

And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?

I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?

She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.

She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.

Just....sourdough bread and butter? For $8?

[nnls]

I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.

Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.

Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.

But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.

And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?

I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?

She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.

She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.

Just....sourdough bread and butter? For $8?

The $8 probably had the option of having jam or Vegemite as well as butter (well that is what its like at the cafe near my place for $6)

[mustachepungoeshere]

I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.

Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.

Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.

But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.

And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?

I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?

She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.

She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.

Just....sourdough bread and butter? For $8?

The $8 probably had the option of having jam or Vegemite as well as butter (well that is what its like at the cafe near my place for $6)

Bingo, Vegemite.

[JZinCO]

I do that....with the caveat that everything that doesn't get allocated to something else is designated as savings (or, unfortunately, loan repayments at the moment).  Day to day, it keeps me accountable.  Freedom for me is knowing that I have $X to spend on Y so I don't stress about spending it because that's what it's there for.  I also know that if I run out of money for Y that I shouldn't pull it from Z because it's a different color of money, so to speak.  That's not to say that I can't change the color of some money, but it's a thought out process instead of on the fly.

I see, I suppose I do the same. I have regular bills + savings that are equally pre-destined for a set amount of money to go towards. The remainder is 'homeless' and ends accumulating as cash until I usually buy investments with it.
I am very averse to accumulating frequent one-off purchases or fixed, monthly costs. I think it's just that I come from a scarcity mindset..

Your point reminds me of a way of framing savings. As in 'I'm still spending my money on all things I want. I just want to make more freedom purchases instead of lattes'. Sounds a bit more of a mustachian approach to money.

[OtherJen]

I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.

Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.

Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.

But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.

And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?

I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?

She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.

She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.

But...you could easily buy a whole loaf of good bread and half-pound of coffee beans for $12 even at Whole Foods! Toast and coffee is the easiest thing!

[ixtap]

I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.

Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.

Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.

But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.

And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?

I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?

She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.

She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.

But...you could easily buy a whole loaf of good bread and half-pound of coffee beans for $12 even at Whole Foods! Toast and coffee is the easiest thing!

Yeah, but how much does vegemite cost in the US?

[dragoncar]

I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.

Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.

Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.

But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.

And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?

I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?

She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.

She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.

Wow, and just a few years ago people were up in arms about a mere $4 toast (https://www.businessinsider.com/we-tried-the-fancy-4-toast-san-francisco-is-going-crazy-for-2015-6)

[OtherJen]

I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.

Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.

Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.

But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.

And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?

I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?

She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.

She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.

But...you could easily buy a whole loaf of good bread and half-pound of coffee beans for $12 even at Whole Foods! Toast and coffee is the easiest thing!

Yeah, but how much does vegemite cost in the US?

Amazon says $9.42 for a 150-g jar. It seems like one could spend $20 and have enough bread, vegemite, and coffee for at least a week of breakfast.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

So.... she pays $12 for breakfast every day? Does she also pay for lunch???

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.

Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.

Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.

But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.

And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?

I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?

She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.

She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.

EIGHT BUCKS FOR TOAST??? No wonder it's not a thing in NZ. We're a cheap nation. Bloody eight dollars for toast.

[dragoncar]

Hold up, maybe she’s a millennial and it’s avocado toast, which is why she can’t afford a house

[mustachepungoeshere]

So.... she pays $12 for breakfast every day? Does she also pay for lunch???

Yep.

And a vending machine Coke and a second coffee.

And Uber Eats for dinner.

She tells me that I'm unusually careful with money. I ... don't think I'm the unusual one.

[Linea_Norway]

So.... she pays $12 for breakfast every day? Does she also pay for lunch???

Yep.

And a vending machine Coke and a second coffee.

And Uber Eats for dinner.

She tells me that I'm unusually careful with money. I ... don't think I'm the unusual one.

I think we are indeed the unusual ones. Maybe is is not solely about making all our meals at home, but it's also about having cheap vacations (I am the only one at work who camps in a tent), not having cable TV, not using streaming services, not buying new clothes all the time, not having expensive cell phones and driving an old car.

But this co-worker above is on the other side of the scale. I guess most people are a bit more in between.

[marty998]

I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.

Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.

Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.

But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.

And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?

I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?

She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.

She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.

But...you could easily buy a whole loaf of good bread and half-pound of coffee beans for $12 even at Whole Foods! Toast and coffee is the easiest thing!

Yeah, but how much does vegemite cost in the US?

Amazon says $9.42 for a 150-g jar. It seems like one could spend $20 and have enough bread, vegemite, and coffee for at least a week of breakfast.

Wow, we pay AU$6 for a 380g jar here in Australia. You guys should fly here and load up a suitcase (like the chinese do with our baby formula)

@mustachepungoeshere I too have a friend who loves his sourdough.... $10,000* a year habit.

Makes me die a little inside.

*Edit to clarify, meant to say it's all food during the day - includes sourdough brekkie, work lunches and coffees.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

So.... she pays $12 for breakfast every day? Does she also pay for lunch???

Yep.

And a vending machine Coke and a second coffee.

And Uber Eats for dinner.

She tells me that I'm unusually careful with money. I ... don't think I'm the unusual one.

That's crazy. I often think that these super spendy people have never been financially tested. They've never been without an income, or seen their parents without an income. They have no idea how quickly things can go wrong.

[Davnasty]

I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.

Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.

Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.

But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.

And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?

I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?

She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.

She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.

But...you could easily buy a whole loaf of good bread and half-pound of coffee beans for $12 even at Whole Foods! Toast and coffee is the easiest thing!

Or $6 at Aldi, and that's for the good stuff, not the bargain brands.

Also, HOLY SHIT $8 for toast? AUD to USD exchange is .71 right now but that's still $5.68 USD. I'd rather starve. I mean fast, I'd rather fast.

[Just Joe]

EIGHT BUCKS FOR TOAST??? No wonder it's not a thing in NZ. We're a cheap nation. Bloody eight dollars for toast.

Don't post her budget! it'll leave a burn mark on my screen.

[OtherJen]

I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.

Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.

Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.

But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.

And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?

I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?

She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.

She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.

But...you could easily buy a whole loaf of good bread and half-pound of coffee beans for $12 even at Whole Foods! Toast and coffee is the easiest thing!

Or $6 at Aldi, and that's for the good stuff, not the bargain brands.

Also, HOLY SHIT $8 for toast? AUD to USD exchange is .71 right now but that's still $5.68 USD. I'd rather starve. I mean fast, I'd rather fast.

Of course, but I’m extrapolating from my own experiences. The people I know who would have no qualms about dropping $12 on toast and coffee every morning are the same people who refuse to shop at Aldi because it’s “weird.” They may be convinced to slum it at Trader Joe’s.

[Imma]

So.... she pays $12 for breakfast every day? Does she also pay for lunch???

Yep.

And a vending machine Coke and a second coffee.

And Uber Eats for dinner.

She tells me that I'm unusually careful with money. I ... don't think I'm the unusual one.

That's crazy. I often think that these super spendy people have never been financially tested. They've never been without an income, or seen their parents without an income. They have no idea how quickly things can go wrong.

I had a conversation like that a while back. Person told me to be less careful with money and have more fun (spendypants fun obviously, frugal fun isn't real fun). Live is for living you know, you might fall ill tomorrow and then you've saved all this money for nothing.

Actually, I did get pretty seriously ill in my early 20s and I can't tell you how glad I was that I had money saved up. The costs add up quickly even in a country with cheap health care. I was able to outsource things like cleaning, paid for loads of extra physical therapy, had money to travel to the most specialized hospital in the country. I'm doing much better now because I had money then - and if something happens to me now, my partner won't struggle financially (at all). This is worth more than 1000 trips to Thailand for me. Plus, when I was ill I was way too busy being ill to even think about memories from the past.

[penguintroopers]

I've mentioned this before but one of my colleagues breakfast - usually toast and coffee - on her way to work and eats it in the office every day.

Yesterday she complained about having to stand in line for 15 minutes to buy toast. She said this like the cafe was the problem.

Today she wanted pastries instead of toast, so she went to a different cafe where the pastries are better.

But someone from her usual cafe saw her, and she felt guilty and like she had to explain her actions.

And yet all this is more convenient than dropping bread in a toaster?

I've never heard or anyone buying toast. I didn't even know it was an option. Is there something special about this toast that she can't do at home? How much does one pay for toast?

She pays $8 for the toast, $4 for the coffee.

She justifies it because it's sourdough. I make Vegemite toast on sourdough at home.

But...you could easily buy a whole loaf of good bread and half-pound of coffee beans for $12 even at Whole Foods! Toast and coffee is the easiest thing!

Or $6 at Aldi, and that's for the good stuff, not the bargain brands.

Also, HOLY SHIT $8 for toast? AUD to USD exchange is .71 right now but that's still $5.68 USD. I'd rather starve. I mean fast, I'd rather fast.

Of course, but I’m extrapolating from my own experiences. The people I know who would have no qualms about dropping $12 on toast and coffee every morning are the same people who refuse to shop at Aldi because it’s “weird.” They may be convinced to slum it at Trader Joe’s.

My husband had to explain to a coworker what Aldi actually was. The coworker thought it was a "about-to-expire" food discount store.

on the subject of the toast, I had a moment similar to when dogs will move their heads in confusion.

[letsdoit]

i had a starbucks gift card someone gave me and with it i got a cup of tea.
 and it was 2.75 USD for a regular tea bag in a cup. 
and this was 8 years ago,  maybe it's more now. 

[letsdoit]

but toast, that's messed up.

[TVRodriguez]

My husband had to explain to a coworker what Aldi actually was. The coworker thought it was a "about-to-expire" food discount store.

I have to admit that the first time we went to Aldi, my husband picked up a gallon of milk and when we got home I noticed that it expired that day.  So there may be something to your co-worker's theory.  I just make extra sure now to check expiration dates!