Author Topic: Overheard at Work 2  (Read 452203 times)

OtherJen

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2100 on: January 22, 2020, 10:57:03 AM »
To be fair you cannot contribute to an HSA unless you have a High Deductible plan, and depending on the plans your company offers that may legitimately not be the best choice for a lot of people. 5% does sound low though. :(

Yes, exactly. At my company, the premiums for a HDHP with a $1,400 deductible and 20% coinsurance on all costs after the deductible is only  15% less than a regular plan with a $700 deductible and 0-10% coinsurance (depending on the specific service). Actual premiums vary by family size and salary, but for employee-only coverage for someone earning a median salary for my company, the tipping point is around $1,000 of medical costs per year. Which is one chronic condition or injury per year.

It has been my experience that many people think an HSA is use it or lose it, like an FSA, and most people cannot do the math to see that the HDHP is a better option.

Depends on how high that deductible is. For someone early in the process, the personal HSA max contribution is $3500, and some HDHP plans have a personal deductible of $6000. That person would likely do the math and choose a non-HDHP plan if they anticipate anything beyond routine care in the next year.

But yes, many people are unaware of the fairly recent change in HSA policy. It used to be "use it or lose it."

Edit: apparently what we had before husband started working for current employer was a medical FSA. A lot of workplaces used to offer these, and that's the source of the confusion.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 11:04:06 AM by OtherJen »

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2101 on: January 22, 2020, 10:57:32 AM »
To be fair you cannot contribute to an HSA unless you have a High Deductible plan, and depending on the plans your company offers that may legitimately not be the best choice for a lot of people. 5% does sound low though. :(

Yes, exactly. At my company, the premiums for a HDHP with a $1,400 deductible and 20% coinsurance on all costs after the deductible is only  15% less than a regular plan with a $700 deductible and 0-10% coinsurance (depending on the specific service). Actual premiums vary by family size and salary, but for employee-only coverage for someone earning a median salary for my company, the tipping point is around $1,000 of medical costs per year. Which is one chronic condition or injury per year.

It has been my experience that many people think an HSA is use it or lose it, like an FSA, and most people cannot do the math to see that the HDHP is a better option.


Aside from that, often times for a young person even if you have done the math, you don't quite realize the implications of it. If I could go back in time I'd have told my 26 year old self (first time I was off mom and dads insurance) that an HSA is the same thing as your IRA, you need to contribute as much as you can to it. But I was gung-ho on my IRA and 401k. That was only 4 years ago, but despite reading everything here and other places, I couldn't quite grasp why it made sense for a single, extremely healthy young person. Now having seen a $1M hospital bill (patient liability far less), I get it.

DaMa

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2102 on: January 22, 2020, 11:41:43 AM »

Depends on how high that deductible is. For someone early in the process, the personal HSA max contribution is $3500, and some HDHP plans have a personal deductible of $6000. That person would likely do the math and choose a non-HDHP plan if they anticipate anything beyond routine care in the next year.

But yes, many people are unaware of the fairly recent change in HSA policy. It used to be "use it or lose it."

Edit: apparently what we had before husband started working for current employer was a medical FSA. A lot of workplaces used to offer these, and that's the source of the confusion.

Even with the $6000 deductible, it depends on the premiums and benefits of your alternatives.  That's my point.


LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2103 on: January 22, 2020, 11:49:18 AM »
But our payroll timing is changing from "paid current" to "paid 1 week in arrears". So in 2 months they will hold back 1 week of pay, meaning when they do, people will get a paycheck only half the size of  the usual. They have had to implement a loan plan to allow employees to borrow up the amount of the "missing" money and pay it back over 4 months.

Heh, this brought back memories. Where I worked they did that payroll change in the mid-1970s.  We got a letter explaining the financial mumbo-jumbo and it said upon separation, you get that held-back week of pay. Somewhere around 2009 a co-worker retired. He had held onto that letter. The HR/payroll people had changed many times over, so he showed them the letter to make sure his held-back week was paid out in his last check. Apparently, by that time it had been so long since anyone left who had been there in 1976 the HR/payroll people were flummoxed. They didn't think the guy had forged the letter but nobody in authority had ever seen one or heard of it.

HR hinted that they weren't going to pay it without coming right out and saying so, suggesting that the obligation belonged to the former parent company, not the current owners. He said they could explain it to the news reporter who would be showing up to ask about it, the HR guy said to hold on as they were still researching, and they did pay it in his last check - a week's pay at his current rate.

This guy is my hero.

Nah. Only if he had gotten the 6% above Federal Lending Rate (or whatever the rule is in the US) interest on that overdue payment.

js82

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2104 on: January 22, 2020, 04:50:34 PM »
Received an email earlier this week that made me want to reach through the internet and facepunch corporate IT.  Content of the email is paraphrased below:


"It has been identified that you have a program on the 'restricted list' on your computer.  This program is on the restricted risk because it presents either a legal or cybersecurity risk to the company, and will be removed from your computer on (insert date here.

The restricted program you are using is (free software that came with measurement equipment I purchased).  We have identified an alternative program for the same purpose (alternative program name, made by the same company).  If you would like this software installed instead, please file a case with the IT Department

If you have any questions, please email us at (email address)"


Now keep in mind the following:
-This program was originally installed on my computer by corporate IT, a couple years ago
-The two programs in question were created by the same company.  It's a reputable company
-The version I'm using is the version they offer free of charge to anyone that purchases their hardware.  It's essentially a stripped-down version of the pricey version.  You can download it for free from their website.
-The version IT wants to force me to switch to costs $495 and has a bunch of features I don't care about.

Currently resisting the urge to respond to the "please direct any questions to address" with a message letting them know how useless and wasteful they are.  Fortunately, I've managed to restrain that urge(so far).

jps

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2105 on: January 22, 2020, 05:30:47 PM »
Currently resisting the urge to respond to the "please direct any questions to address" with a message letting them know how useless and wasteful they are.  Fortunately, I've managed to restrain that urge(so far).

Yeah, that's probably good urge to restrain. just kidding, do it and tell us what happens.

SwordGuy

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2106 on: January 22, 2020, 06:27:21 PM »
Received an email earlier this week that made me want to reach through the internet and facepunch corporate IT.  Content of the email is paraphrased below:


"It has been identified that you have a program on the 'restricted list' on your computer.  This program is on the restricted risk because it presents either a legal or cybersecurity risk to the company, and will be removed from your computer on (insert date here.

The restricted program you are using is (free software that came with measurement equipment I purchased).  We have identified an alternative program for the same purpose (alternative program name, made by the same company).  If you would like this software installed instead, please file a case with the IT Department

If you have any questions, please email us at (email address)"


Now keep in mind the following:
-This program was originally installed on my computer by corporate IT, a couple years ago
-The two programs in question were created by the same company.  It's a reputable company
-The version I'm using is the version they offer free of charge to anyone that purchases their hardware.  It's essentially a stripped-down version of the pricey version.  You can download it for free from their website.
-The version IT wants to force me to switch to costs $495 and has a bunch of features I don't care about.

Currently resisting the urge to respond to the "please direct any questions to address" with a message letting them know how useless and wasteful they are.  Fortunately, I've managed to restrain that urge(so far).

It's possible that the free version of the software actually DOES have security flaws that the pay-for version does not.    You should check that out before jumping on their case.

Montecarlo

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2107 on: January 22, 2020, 07:57:15 PM »


I enjoy a nice evening at a hookah bar smoking and sipping beer.  I donít see whatís immoral about tobacco companies profiting off of that.  Or why alcohol seems to get a free pass when it causes crazy health problems as well.

I would prefer not to invest in alcohol either if I had the choice, but I haven't found a sober fund yet.

Alcohol (and fastfood companies, etc etc) are different than tobacco companies though. While consuming alcohol is not healthy, most users are not addicted to it. Only a minority of the users suffer from addiction. It's an unfortunate side effect. Tobacco on the other hand is addictive by design. Almost all users are hooked after using it for a few times (I don't know the exact numbers but I've seen figures suggesting teenagers often get addicted after trying a cigarette less than 5-10 times)  The tobacco industry is actually doing research to find out how to increase the addictiveness of their products. In my book that's pretty evil.

Also, from a danger-to-others perspective, while of course a person with an alcohol addiction is a huge burden to their environment, tobacco users literally pollute other people's air with toxic fumes. I believe that everyone has the theoretical right to inhale toxic fumes (although freedom of choice is difficult with addiction) but you also poison other people. This is a sensitive topic for me, because I suffer from an auto immune disease, have suffered from it since I was a teenager. When I asked my doctor how I could possibly suddenly get this disease, she replied 'are your parents smokers?' Exposure to second hand smoke is one of the biggest risk factors for my illness, after from first hand smoke (I'm a never smoker) .

If weíre using danger to others because of usersí irresponsible use as a criteria, I would rate alcohol (driving while drunk), phones (driving while texting), and cars (driving while driving) as more dangerous than smoking.

PDXTabs

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2108 on: January 22, 2020, 08:00:18 PM »
Or why alcohol seems to get a free pass when it causes crazy health problems as well.

Every society has one or two drugs that are condoned. We just picked a really dumb one.

PDXTabs

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2109 on: January 22, 2020, 08:09:56 PM »
If I could go back in time I'd have told my 26 year old self (first time I was off mom and dads insurance) that an HSA is the same thing as your IRA, you need to contribute as much as you can to it. But I was gung-ho on my IRA and 401k.

But it isn't. You can use the rule of 55 to take money out of a 401K at 55, you can use a 72T to take money out of your IRA anytime, you can transfer money between IRAs and 401Ks, but a HSA requires that you actually be 65 to use that money for anything other than medical expenses.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 08:22:11 PM by PDXTabs »

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2110 on: January 22, 2020, 08:27:10 PM »
If I could go back in time I'd have told my 26 year old self (first time I was off mom and dads insurance) that an HSA is the same thing as your IRA, you need to contribute as much as you can to it. But I was gung-ho on my IRA and 401k.

But it isn't. You can use the rule of 55 to take money out of a 401K at 55, you can use a 72T to take money out of your IRA anytime, but a HSA requires that you actually be 65 to use that money for anything other than medical expenses.

No, I realize that. But that is the language I would have understood, and it would have been a better use of my savings for me and my family than straight IRA and 401k.  Obviously this is equivalent to me telling younger self to choose a Toyota instead of a Honda. Or maybe a Corvette instead of a Ferrari? Or Ferrari instead of Corvette? W/e, my point is that for me I didn't make a bad choice but could have made a better choice - although that is with the benefit of hindsight.

Xlar

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2111 on: January 23, 2020, 08:59:23 AM »
If I could go back in time I'd have told my 26 year old self (first time I was off mom and dads insurance) that an HSA is the same thing as your IRA, you need to contribute as much as you can to it. But I was gung-ho on my IRA and 401k.

But it isn't. You can use the rule of 55 to take money out of a 401K at 55, you can use a 72T to take money out of your IRA anytime, you can transfer money between IRAs and 401Ks, but a HSA requires that you actually be 65 to use that money for anything other than medical expenses.

While you have to be 65 to withdraw for anything other than medical expenses my understanding is that you pay your medical expenses now using non-HSA dollars and then later when you are FIRED you use those receipts to withdraw dollars from the HSA. Here is the article where I first heard about the concept: https://www.madfientist.com/ultimate-retirement-account/

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2112 on: January 23, 2020, 09:39:33 AM »
Currently resisting the urge to respond to the "please direct any questions to address" with a message letting them know how useless and wasteful they are.  Fortunately, I've managed to restrain that urge(so far).

Yeah, that's probably good urge to restrain. just kidding, do it and tell us what happens.

http://bofharchive.com/BOFH.html


Not really overheard and certainly not overseen:

My collegue got a "little" packet today. 2 buckets (3 gallons) and diverse stuff, including nano seal shampoo, to clean his car.
My car gets washed every time it rains. Guess I miss out on some real fun here.

BigIslandGuy

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2113 on: January 23, 2020, 01:25:45 PM »
A 70 year old man and his 64 year old SO take their aging van to a dealer to get repairs. While waiting, their eyes catch on a new Dodge Journey SUV for about 20k sticker.
They both get Social Security - that's their only source of income.  He gets 1000, she gets 750. 
They are upside down on the vehicle being repaired. They get $1,500 trade allowance but loan payoff of $5,800, so they roll the $3,,300 into new loan. And get sold a $3,600 service contract. Payments are $700 per month.  So of their $1750 income, 700 will go to the new vehicle. And of course rent of 520 so that leaves them about $530 for everything else.

Did I mention his financial statements shown to the dealer show 2 bank accounts. First has $24 positive balance and the other is overdrawn by about $150. So they have less than zero money.

Their loan is for 26.5k at over 20% APR. This works for 1 month.

Then she dies. Now he is stuck with the loan and now only $1,000 income and $1,200 between vehicle and the rent. 

Can there be a worse story?


Davnasty

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2114 on: January 23, 2020, 01:40:11 PM »
Antimustachian wall of shame and tragedy...

How do you know such specific details?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 01:43:42 PM by Davnasty »

ysette9

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2115 on: January 23, 2020, 01:40:17 PM »
That sounds downright criminal

BigIslandGuy

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2116 on: January 23, 2020, 01:58:05 PM »
Antimustachian wall of shame and tragedy...

How do you know such specific details?

I may be posting many such stories, but its better for all involved that I not divulge how I know the details. :)  But they are very true and some may or may not result in litigation.

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2117 on: January 24, 2020, 06:35:05 AM »


I enjoy a nice evening at a hookah bar smoking and sipping beer.  I donít see whatís immoral about tobacco companies profiting off of that.  Or why alcohol seems to get a free pass when it causes crazy health problems as well.

I would prefer not to invest in alcohol either if I had the choice, but I haven't found a sober fund yet.

Alcohol (and fastfood companies, etc etc) are different than tobacco companies though. While consuming alcohol is not healthy, most users are not addicted to it. Only a minority of the users suffer from addiction. It's an unfortunate side effect. Tobacco on the other hand is addictive by design. Almost all users are hooked after using it for a few times (I don't know the exact numbers but I've seen figures suggesting teenagers often get addicted after trying a cigarette less than 5-10 times)  The tobacco industry is actually doing research to find out how to increase the addictiveness of their products. In my book that's pretty evil.

Also, from a danger-to-others perspective, while of course a person with an alcohol addiction is a huge burden to their environment, tobacco users literally pollute other people's air with toxic fumes. I believe that everyone has the theoretical right to inhale toxic fumes (although freedom of choice is difficult with addiction) but you also poison other people. This is a sensitive topic for me, because I suffer from an auto immune disease, have suffered from it since I was a teenager. When I asked my doctor how I could possibly suddenly get this disease, she replied 'are your parents smokers?' Exposure to second hand smoke is one of the biggest risk factors for my illness, after from first hand smoke (I'm a never smoker) .

If weíre using danger to others because of usersí irresponsible use as a criteria, I would rate alcohol (driving while drunk), phones (driving while texting), and cars (driving while driving) as more dangerous than smoking.

Of course I don't think those examples are not dangerous, but the existance of other dangerous things doesn't mean that exposure to second hand smoke is not dangerous. Getting hit by a drunk driver may result in death or a serious injury, but as I said, because of exposure to smoke in childhood I will suffer from a serious illness for the rest of my life. The cause and effect relationship is the same, the result is the same, except the relationship between exposure to smoke and illness is less immediately visible. I'm not sure if drunk driving accidents are more common either - about a quarter of the population still smokes and doing it in front of children or during pregnancy isn't exactly unheard of.

All my siblings had lung issues as a child. A smoking acquintance had a baby who was born early, likely because she moked heavily throughout pregnancy. The kid is healthy enough now but many premature children develop problems later on in life. It is common, unfortunately just like drunk driving and texting and driving. I have ended a friendship over drunk driving, I really hate that too.

I still do think that there's a moral difference between a product that is only designed to do harm, and products that have a use (like cars) but are misused and cause harm because of misuse.

Sugaree

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2118 on: January 24, 2020, 09:18:54 AM »
A 70 year old man and his 64 year old SO take their aging van to a dealer to get repairs. While waiting, their eyes catch on a new Dodge Journey SUV for about 20k sticker.
They both get Social Security - that's their only source of income.  He gets 1000, she gets 750. 
They are upside down on the vehicle being repaired. They get $1,500 trade allowance but loan payoff of $5,800, so they roll the $3,,300 into new loan. And get sold a $3,600 service contract. Payments are $700 per month.  So of their $1750 income, 700 will go to the new vehicle. And of course rent of 520 so that leaves them about $530 for everything else.

Did I mention his financial statements shown to the dealer show 2 bank accounts. First has $24 positive balance and the other is overdrawn by about $150. So they have less than zero money.

Their loan is for 26.5k at over 20% APR. This works for 1 month.

Then she dies. Now he is stuck with the loan and now only $1,000 income and $1,200 between vehicle and the rent. 

Can there be a worse story?


It would be a Dodge Journey.  Those are rather infamous for being what you end up with when you need to roll negative equity into something.

Montecarlo

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2119 on: January 24, 2020, 09:42:31 AM »
a product that is only designed to do harm

Thatís extreme.  Itís not like weíre talking about politicians here.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2120 on: January 24, 2020, 09:57:48 AM »
a product that is only designed to do harm

Thatís extreme.  Itís not like weíre talking about politicians here.

That's right. The correct description is "a product that is made to make money and is deliverately optimised to cause harm because that makes more money".

In contrast politicians - even the dictatorial sort - seldom do harm because they like it. Generally it is just what comes with becoming and keeping to be a leader. Like Republicans deliberately cause harm to poor and especially poor black people, because those tend to vote democratic.

Or, if you want to put it the other way round, Democrats who intentionally harm super rich people's money sacks so that they can keep the poor voting them by delivering presents like health care.

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2121 on: January 24, 2020, 10:31:30 AM »
A 70 year old man and his 64 year old SO take their aging van to a dealer to get repairs. While waiting, their eyes catch on a new Dodge Journey SUV for about 20k sticker.
They both get Social Security - that's their only source of income.  He gets 1000, she gets 750. 
They are upside down on the vehicle being repaired. They get $1,500 trade allowance but loan payoff of $5,800, so they roll the $3,,300 into new loan. And get sold a $3,600 service contract. Payments are $700 per month.  So of their $1750 income, 700 will go to the new vehicle. And of course rent of 520 so that leaves them about $530 for everything else.

Did I mention his financial statements shown to the dealer show 2 bank accounts. First has $24 positive balance and the other is overdrawn by about $150. So they have less than zero money.

Their loan is for 26.5k at over 20% APR. This works for 1 month.

Then she dies. Now he is stuck with the loan and now only $1,000 income and $1,200 between vehicle and the rent. 

Can there be a worse story?

It ought to be illegal for a business to gouge an individual like that. Seriously! Not everyone has the same level of intellect and impulse control to understand how bad their choices are. SO many stories of people buying cars and houses and toys they can't even come close to affording.

BTDretire

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2122 on: January 24, 2020, 12:35:30 PM »
My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.
There is a certain TX gas station with a cult following.  I actually have a branded T-shirt from there (thrifted!) and a coozie.  Its so much more than just a gas station :)

My first thought when I read this was that it had to be Bucc-ee's

 I thought it was The Busy Bee, I had never heard of Buc-ee's.
I found a video about the Busy Bee, it seems so far it's a Florida/Georgia thing.
 The bathrooms really are great and always clean.
The bill boards are fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_7v4U3RxUE&feature=youtu.be

 All those goodies are there, but when we stop at a Busy Bee, we may buy gas, but not usually, my wife already has the cheap gas places figured out, and as far as goodies, she already packed those for the trip,
so no paying high prices on highway food.
 Did I mention they have nice bathrooms, that's why we stop. :-)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 05:08:22 PM by BTDretire »

BTDretire

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2123 on: January 24, 2020, 12:50:01 PM »
To be fair you cannot contribute to an HSA unless you have a High Deductible plan, and depending on the plans your company offers that may legitimately not be the best choice for a lot of people. 5% does sound low though. :(

Yes, exactly. At my company, the premiums for a HDHP with a $1,400 deductible and 20% coinsurance on all costs after the deductible is only  15% less than a regular plan with a $700 deductible and 0-10% coinsurance (depending on the specific service). Actual premiums vary by family size and salary, but for employee-only coverage for someone earning a median salary for my company, the tipping point is around $1,000 of medical costs per year. Which is one chronic condition or injury per year.

  Not sure I understand the details. Are you paying $4,666 or more for the $700 deductible plan?
 If so, a 15% reduction in the premium would cover the $700 difference in the deductible. I don't understand how the co-insurance plays in, it may be the stopper.
 How about the tax reduction if you are allowed to use the HSA. Does that make it worth while?
 I only ask because going to a high deductible for me reduced my premium a huge amount, and now after
about 8 years, I have $52k of tax advantaged money in my HSA. I've been very happy with my HDHP/HSA policy.

marty998

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2124 on: January 25, 2020, 04:05:56 PM »
A 70 year old man and his 64 year old SO take their aging van to a dealer to get repairs. While waiting, their eyes catch on a new Dodge Journey SUV for about 20k sticker.
They both get Social Security - that's their only source of income.  He gets 1000, she gets 750. 
They are upside down on the vehicle being repaired. They get $1,500 trade allowance but loan payoff of $5,800, so they roll the $3,,300 into new loan. And get sold a $3,600 service contract. Payments are $700 per month.  So of their $1750 income, 700 will go to the new vehicle. And of course rent of 520 so that leaves them about $530 for everything else.

Did I mention his financial statements shown to the dealer show 2 bank accounts. First has $24 positive balance and the other is overdrawn by about $150. So they have less than zero money.

Their loan is for 26.5k at over 20% APR. This works for 1 month.

Then she dies. Now he is stuck with the loan and now only $1,000 income and $1,200 between vehicle and the rent. 

Can there be a worse story?

It ought to be illegal for a business to gouge an individual like that. Seriously! Not everyone has the same level of intellect and impulse control to understand how bad their choices are. SO many stories of people buying cars and houses and toys they can't even come close to affording.

We have rules around misleading and deceptive conduct here, as well as consumer credit laws (a credit provider has to undertake due diligence that a customer can service a loan).

However, numerous innovations are seeking to get around these laws, such as buy now, pay later apps and schemes - where you make a series of instalments, and are technically not charged interest.

The problem with trying to put in place unfair contract laws is the expectation that someone signing a contract has already sought proper legal advice. Perhaps there should be a requirement for the lender to ask "have you received legal or financial advice?" If the borrower waives that clause, then don't punish the lender.

Interesting though, the only reason I can think a lender would lend someone money in this situation is that the sales staff gets an upfront commission from it, and head office doesn't clue onto it until much later down the line, or just has bad internal management reporting.

horsepoor

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2125 on: January 27, 2020, 08:17:18 PM »
I don't hear these often, but the other day, I overheard a coworker telling someone that he took a 401K loan to buy a new washing machine "because those things aren't cheap these days."  I know he makes a little over $100K.  A washing machine is what, like $600?  I hope I misheard, but I don't think I did.

Sugaree

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2126 on: January 28, 2020, 04:26:38 AM »
I don't hear these often, but the other day, I overheard a coworker telling someone that he took a 401K loan to buy a new washing machine "because those things aren't cheap these days."  I know he makes a little over $100K.  A washing machine is what, like $600?  I hope I misheard, but I don't think I did.


When I looked around last summer, I could find a new one for ~$450 for the basest of base models.  Even the super duper high-end, stackable front loaders were only like $1300.  I ended up just fixing my 30 year-old Kenmore. 

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2127 on: January 28, 2020, 10:56:05 AM »
I don't hear these often, but the other day, I overheard a coworker telling someone that he took a 401K loan to buy a new washing machine "because those things aren't cheap these days."  I know he makes a little over $100K.  A washing machine is what, like $600?  I hope I misheard, but I don't think I did.


When I looked around last summer, I could find a new one for ~$450 for the basest of base models.  Even the super duper high-end, stackable front loaders were only like $1300.  I ended up just fixing my 30 year-old Kenmore.

I purchased a pair in mid 2009, Frigidaires. They were the "base model" high-efficiency front loaders, $1000+tax for the pair, "free" delivery. The base drawer+riser was $150 each. We didn't need it. Around 2016, I saw them on clearance at Lowes for $25 each.
Washer/Dryer have been fine. Washer had a draining issue once, opened it (super easy), took out the offending baby socks, some coins, pins, collar tabs, etc. Been good ever since. Washes and dries well, I don't know what other features I'd need that the newer "Smart" models have.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2128 on: January 28, 2020, 11:15:14 AM »
I purchased a pair in mid 2009, Frigidaires. They were the "base model" high-efficiency front loaders, $1000+tax for the pair, "free" delivery. The base drawer+riser was $150 each. We didn't need it. Around 2016, I saw them on clearance at Lowes for $25 each.
Washer/Dryer have been fine. Washer had a draining issue once, opened it (super easy), took out the offending baby socks, some coins, pins, collar tabs, etc. Been good ever since. Washes and dries well, I don't know what other features I'd need that the newer "Smart" models have.
But, but, but, the newer models play a song when they're done!


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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2129 on: January 28, 2020, 11:35:14 AM »
I purchased a pair in mid 2009, Frigidaires. They were the "base model" high-efficiency front loaders, $1000+tax for the pair, "free" delivery. The base drawer+riser was $150 each. We didn't need it. Around 2016, I saw them on clearance at Lowes for $25 each.
Washer/Dryer have been fine. Washer had a draining issue once, opened it (super easy), took out the offending baby socks, some coins, pins, collar tabs, etc. Been good ever since. Washes and dries well, I don't know what other features I'd need that the newer "Smart" models have.
But, but, but, the newer models play a song when they're done!

That's nice and all, but there are just some things that don't necessarily need to be "smart" (like the smart kitchen faucet...just why?).  My laundry room is semi-detached, so sending an alert to my phone when it's done would be kind of nifty, but I've gone 10 years now just remembering to check on it after 30 or 40 minutes and I've lived.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2130 on: January 28, 2020, 05:07:48 PM »
I purchased a pair in mid 2009, Frigidaires. They were the "base model" high-efficiency front loaders, $1000+tax for the pair, "free" delivery. The base drawer+riser was $150 each. We didn't need it. Around 2016, I saw them on clearance at Lowes for $25 each.
Washer/Dryer have been fine. Washer had a draining issue once, opened it (super easy), took out the offending baby socks, some coins, pins, collar tabs, etc. Been good ever since. Washes and dries well, I don't know what other features I'd need that the newer "Smart" models have.
But, but, but, the newer models play a song when they're done!

We just bought a new house.   The dryer it came with runs on natural gas instead of electricity, which is nice.   But the thing that surprised me was a plastic rack that fits into the dryer and provides a non-spinning platform in the dryer.  You use it to put your things on it like shoes that you need to dry but don't want them thumping around inside.   I was gob-smacked.   

I feel so upper class.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2131 on: January 28, 2020, 05:21:44 PM »
I purchased a pair in mid 2009, Frigidaires. They were the "base model" high-efficiency front loaders, $1000+tax for the pair, "free" delivery. The base drawer+riser was $150 each. We didn't need it. Around 2016, I saw them on clearance at Lowes for $25 each.
Washer/Dryer have been fine. Washer had a draining issue once, opened it (super easy), took out the offending baby socks, some coins, pins, collar tabs, etc. Been good ever since. Washes and dries well, I don't know what other features I'd need that the newer "Smart" models have.
But, but, but, the newer models play a song when they're done!

We just bought a new house.   The dryer it came with runs on natural gas instead of electricity, which is nice.   But the thing that surprised me was a plastic rack that fits into the dryer and provides a non-spinning platform in the dryer.  You use it to put your things on it like shoes that you need to dry but don't want them thumping around inside.   I was gob-smacked.   

I feel so upper class.

Man, just wear them wet until they dry out. Shouldn't take more than a couple of days...

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2132 on: January 28, 2020, 06:29:29 PM »
I purchased a pair in mid 2009, Frigidaires. They were the "base model" high-efficiency front loaders, $1000+tax for the pair, "free" delivery. The base drawer+riser was $150 each. We didn't need it. Around 2016, I saw them on clearance at Lowes for $25 each.
Washer/Dryer have been fine. Washer had a draining issue once, opened it (super easy), took out the offending baby socks, some coins, pins, collar tabs, etc. Been good ever since. Washes and dries well, I don't know what other features I'd need that the newer "Smart" models have.
But, but, but, the newer models play a song when they're done!

We just bought a new house.   The dryer it came with runs on natural gas instead of electricity, which is nice.   But the thing that surprised me was a plastic rack that fits into the dryer and provides a non-spinning platform in the dryer.  You use it to put your things on it like shoes that you need to dry but don't want them thumping around inside.   I was gob-smacked.   

I feel so upper class.

Man, just wear them wet until they dry out. Shouldn't take more than a couple of days...

Yep, plus they'll have that nice mildewy smell.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2133 on: January 28, 2020, 06:48:56 PM »
I purchased a pair in mid 2009, Frigidaires. They were the "base model" high-efficiency front loaders, $1000+tax for the pair, "free" delivery. The base drawer+riser was $150 each. We didn't need it. Around 2016, I saw them on clearance at Lowes for $25 each.
Washer/Dryer have been fine. Washer had a draining issue once, opened it (super easy), took out the offending baby socks, some coins, pins, collar tabs, etc. Been good ever since. Washes and dries well, I don't know what other features I'd need that the newer "Smart" models have.
But, but, but, the newer models play a song when they're done!

We just bought a new house.   The dryer it came with runs on natural gas instead of electricity, which is nice.   But the thing that surprised me was a plastic rack that fits into the dryer and provides a non-spinning platform in the dryer.  You use it to put your things on it like shoes that you need to dry but don't want them thumping around inside.   I was gob-smacked.   

I feel so upper class.

Man, just wear them wet until they dry out. Shouldn't take more than a couple of days...

I didn't buy the house because of the features on the dryer!  Hell, I didn't even know about them until some days after we closed on it.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2134 on: January 29, 2020, 08:09:28 AM »
We just bought a new house.   The dryer it came with runs on natural gas instead of electricity, which is nice.   But the thing that surprised me was a plastic rack that fits into the dryer and provides a non-spinning platform in the dryer.  You use it to put your things on it like shoes that you need to dry but don't want them thumping around inside.   I was gob-smacked.   

I feel so upper class.

That does sound fancy. Makes setting them out in front of the warm draft from my refrigerator coils sound downright primitive.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2135 on: January 29, 2020, 08:11:38 AM »
I purchased a pair in mid 2009, Frigidaires. They were the "base model" high-efficiency front loaders, $1000+tax for the pair, "free" delivery. The base drawer+riser was $150 each. We didn't need it. Around 2016, I saw them on clearance at Lowes for $25 each.
Washer/Dryer have been fine. Washer had a draining issue once, opened it (super easy), took out the offending baby socks, some coins, pins, collar tabs, etc. Been good ever since. Washes and dries well, I don't know what other features I'd need that the newer "Smart" models have.
But, but, but, the newer models play a song when they're done!

We just bought a new house.   The dryer it came with runs on natural gas instead of electricity, which is nice.   But the thing that surprised me was a plastic rack that fits into the dryer and provides a non-spinning platform in the dryer.  You use it to put your things on it like shoes that you need to dry but don't want them thumping around inside.   I was gob-smacked.   

I feel so upper class.

Man, just wear them wet until they dry out. Shouldn't take more than a couple of days...

I didn't buy the house because of the features on the dryer!  Hell, I didn't even know about them until some days after we closed on it.

Getting away from the topic of the thread, but... One of my favorite estate sale purchases was a boot dryer. Paid about $5 for it. Stick boots on it, hockey skates, shoes, gloves... It is great.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2136 on: January 29, 2020, 06:52:25 PM »
I don't hear these often, but the other day, I overheard a coworker telling someone that he took a 401K loan to buy a new washing machine "because those things aren't cheap these days."  I know he makes a little over $100K.  A washing machine is what, like $600?  I hope I misheard, but I don't think I did.


When I looked around last summer, I could find a new one for ~$450 for the basest of base models.  Even the super duper high-end, stackable front loaders were only like $1300.  I ended up just fixing my 30 year-old Kenmore.

Yep, and if I couldn't cash flow that, I think I'd just buy of Craigslist or use the laundromat for a month or two.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2137 on: January 30, 2020, 01:19:45 AM »
I don't hear these often, but the other day, I overheard a coworker telling someone that he took a 401K loan to buy a new washing machine "because those things aren't cheap these days."  I know he makes a little over $100K.  A washing machine is what, like $600?  I hope I misheard, but I don't think I did.


When I looked around last summer, I could find a new one for ~$450 for the basest of base models.  Even the super duper high-end, stackable front loaders were only like $1300.  I ended up just fixing my 30 year-old Kenmore.

Yep, and if I couldn't cash flow that, I think I'd just buy of Craigslist or use the laundromat for a month or two.

I bought my whiteware from a guy who reconditions whiteware FIFTEEN YEARS AGO. He's not the absolute cheapest but he does offer a warranty and all that stuff, and he only does whiteware and obviously quite well. I think my washing machine was $400 or so. The fridge was $500 and he sourced the particular fridge I wanted - single, white, half and half with the freezer on the bottom. Second hand goods are a great deal if you buy them with a bit of thought.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2138 on: January 30, 2020, 01:29:52 PM »
I purchased a pair in mid 2009, Frigidaires. They were the "base model" high-efficiency front loaders, $1000+tax for the pair, "free" delivery. The base drawer+riser was $150 each. We didn't need it. Around 2016, I saw them on clearance at Lowes for $25 each.
Washer/Dryer have been fine. Washer had a draining issue once, opened it (super easy), took out the offending baby socks, some coins, pins, collar tabs, etc. Been good ever since. Washes and dries well, I don't know what other features I'd need that the newer "Smart" models have.
But, but, but, the newer models play a song when they're done!

We just bought a new house.   The dryer it came with runs on natural gas instead of electricity, which is nice.   But the thing that surprised me was a plastic rack that fits into the dryer and provides a non-spinning platform in the dryer.  You use it to put your things on it like shoes that you need to dry but don't want them thumping around inside.   I was gob-smacked.   

I feel so upper class.

Man, just wear them wet until they dry out. Shouldn't take more than a couple of days...

Yep, plus they'll have that nice mildewy smell.

For the record - I was joking... ;)

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2139 on: January 30, 2020, 01:35:00 PM »
I don't hear these often, but the other day, I overheard a coworker telling someone that he took a 401K loan to buy a new washing machine "because those things aren't cheap these days."  I know he makes a little over $100K.  A washing machine is what, like $600?  I hope I misheard, but I don't think I did.


When I looked around last summer, I could find a new one for ~$450 for the basest of base models.  Even the super duper high-end, stackable front loaders were only like $1300.  I ended up just fixing my 30 year-old Kenmore.

Yep, and if I couldn't cash flow that, I think I'd just buy of Craigslist or use the laundromat for a month or two.

I bought my whiteware from a guy who reconditions whiteware FIFTEEN YEARS AGO. He's not the absolute cheapest but he does offer a warranty and all that stuff, and he only does whiteware and obviously quite well. I think my washing machine was $400 or so. The fridge was $500 and he sourced the particular fridge I wanted - single, white, half and half with the freezer on the bottom. Second hand goods are a great deal if you buy them with a bit of thought.
Or even new things too.  I'm pretty shocked at how "high end" everything is this days - or what people think is normal.

We bought a fridge in 2001 (new, Kenmore) because the apartment we moved into didn't have one.  So, it was $650 or so.

Fast forward to late 2019, and it finally dies (after we replaced a few things along the way).  I go down the rabbit hole of looking things up on line (with very few places in town to LOOK), and even went on Craigslist and FB marketplace - but the fridge was dead and we couldn't really go without one for long.  Luckily it died BEFORE I did the Sat grocery shopping, so we made do for 3-4 days with a cooler and my work mini-fridge and our mini-freezer.

We were helped by the fact that in our house, my husband built cabinets around the fridge.  So, it's a 30" fridge.  That really means you aren't buying a $3k fridge.  After stressing about water filters, ice makers, stainless steel, french doors...we ended up with... a (new) 2017 Kenmore.  They were getting rid of unsold stock.  It's black, it was $350, though we did have to pay for delivery.  It is nearly identical to the one we replaced except it's black, the freezer is a tiny bit smaller, and the door shelving is not adjustable, like it was on the old fridge.  Even on sale, the cheapest other fridge was $1100. 

So now, our 16 yo gas stove is dead/ dying.  We paid $399 when we bought it new.  The repair guy told us it would be $373 to fix.  The igniter is bad in the oven part - that's an electrical part, I think my husband could fix it.  The largest of the 4 burners is broken, and as it hooks up to gas inside the oven, that's the expensive part.  We paid his fee and declined the fix.  We'll probably just live with it for awhile.  It's undecided whether we'll replace the whole thing or just the igniter and live without a burner.

But here's the thing: "You've earned a new stove!"  You know how much a new stove costs?  Well, if you look up highly rates ones, apparently I'm supposed to fork out $2k-$3k.  However, the very base model of stove (gas or electric), which honestly would be a lower model than we have, is about $375-450.  Lower models are generally FAR more reliable, because fewer things break.  If I felt like "upgrading" to a fifth burner, then well, it might be $550-600.  I prefer gas but I keep reading that electric is better for the environment. I'd worry about breaking the glass top.  Not sure but for now, we do nothing.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2140 on: January 30, 2020, 01:47:35 PM »
But here's the thing: "You've earned a new stove!"  You know how much a new stove costs?  Well, if you look up highly rates ones, apparently I'm supposed to fork out $2k-$3k.  However, the very base model of stove (gas or electric), which honestly would be a lower model than we have, is about $375-450.  Lower models are generally FAR more reliable, because fewer things break.  If I felt like "upgrading" to a fifth burner, then well, it might be $550-600.  I prefer gas but I keep reading that electric is better for the environment. I'd worry about breaking the glass top.  Not sure but for now, we do nothing.
Unless your electricity is generated using renewables or nuclear, a gas stove can actually be better for the environment.  Gas burned at your stove puts its heat directly into the pan.  Energy generated at the power plant has to heat steam, drive a turbine, get geared down, drive a generator, go through a transformer, travel dozens-to-hundreds of miles through power lines, go through at least a couple more transformers, and then finally be turned back into heat at your stove.  There's some efficiency loss there :)  Besides, natural gas is the cleanest fossil fuel.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2141 on: January 30, 2020, 02:25:59 PM »
I don't hear these often, but the other day, I overheard a coworker telling someone that he took a 401K loan to buy a new washing machine "because those things aren't cheap these days."  I know he makes a little over $100K.  A washing machine is what, like $600?  I hope I misheard, but I don't think I did.


When I looked around last summer, I could find a new one for ~$450 for the basest of base models.  Even the super duper high-end, stackable front loaders were only like $1300.  I ended up just fixing my 30 year-old Kenmore.

Yep, and if I couldn't cash flow that, I think I'd just buy of Craigslist or use the laundromat for a month or two.

I bought my whiteware from a guy who reconditions whiteware FIFTEEN YEARS AGO. He's not the absolute cheapest but he does offer a warranty and all that stuff, and he only does whiteware and obviously quite well. I think my washing machine was $400 or so. The fridge was $500 and he sourced the particular fridge I wanted - single, white, half and half with the freezer on the bottom. Second hand goods are a great deal if you buy them with a bit of thought.
Or even new things too.  I'm pretty shocked at how "high end" everything is this days - or what people think is normal.

We bought a fridge in 2001 (new, Kenmore) because the apartment we moved into didn't have one.  So, it was $650 or so.

Fast forward to late 2019, and it finally dies (after we replaced a few things along the way).  I go down the rabbit hole of looking things up on line (with very few places in town to LOOK), and even went on Craigslist and FB marketplace - but the fridge was dead and we couldn't really go without one for long.  Luckily it died BEFORE I did the Sat grocery shopping, so we made do for 3-4 days with a cooler and my work mini-fridge and our mini-freezer.

We were helped by the fact that in our house, my husband built cabinets around the fridge.  So, it's a 30" fridge.  That really means you aren't buying a $3k fridge.  After stressing about water filters, ice makers, stainless steel, french doors...we ended up with... a (new) 2017 Kenmore.  They were getting rid of unsold stock.  It's black, it was $350, though we did have to pay for delivery.  It is nearly identical to the one we replaced except it's black, the freezer is a tiny bit smaller, and the door shelving is not adjustable, like it was on the old fridge.  Even on sale, the cheapest other fridge was $1100. 

So now, our 16 yo gas stove is dead/ dying.  We paid $399 when we bought it new.  The repair guy told us it would be $373 to fix.  The igniter is bad in the oven part - that's an electrical part, I think my husband could fix it.  The largest of the 4 burners is broken, and as it hooks up to gas inside the oven, that's the expensive part.  We paid his fee and declined the fix.  We'll probably just live with it for awhile.  It's undecided whether we'll replace the whole thing or just the igniter and live without a burner.

But here's the thing: "You've earned a new stove!"  You know how much a new stove costs?  Well, if you look up highly rates ones, apparently I'm supposed to fork out $2k-$3k.  However, the very base model of stove (gas or electric), which honestly would be a lower model than we have, is about $375-450.  Lower models are generally FAR more reliable, because fewer things break.  If I felt like "upgrading" to a fifth burner, then well, it might be $550-600.  I prefer gas but I keep reading that electric is better for the environment. I'd worry about breaking the glass top.  Not sure but for now, we do nothing.


We did some stuff to fix up the kitchen two years ago since we already had contractors at the house to fix the big gaping hole in the roof.  We had them run a gas line and a plug for the electric stove we already had.  So, what I really want is a dual fuel system with a gas cooktop and electric oven.  But it's going to be awhile before I will pull the trigger on that one. 

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2142 on: January 30, 2020, 04:51:12 PM »
We just bought a new house.   The dryer it came with runs on natural gas instead of electricity, which is nice.   But the thing that surprised me was a plastic rack that fits into the dryer and provides a non-spinning platform in the dryer.  You use it to put your things on it like shoes that you need to dry but don't want them thumping around inside.   I was gob-smacked.   

I feel so upper class.

That does sound fancy. Makes setting them out in front of the warm draft from my refrigerator coils sound downright primitive.

My Kenmore dryer is about 30 years old and came with a boot rack.  Iíve never used it - I figure thatís what the furnace vents are for.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2143 on: January 31, 2020, 07:04:39 AM »

We just bought a new house.   The dryer it came with runs on natural gas instead of electricity, which is nice.   But the thing that surprised me was a plastic rack that fits into the dryer and provides a non-spinning platform in the dryer.  You use it to put your things on it like shoes that you need to dry but don't want them thumping around inside.   I was gob-smacked.   

if you've never had a gas dryer - you'll find it easier on your clothes than an electric dryer.   

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2144 on: January 31, 2020, 07:24:49 AM »

We just bought a new house.   The dryer it came with runs on natural gas instead of electricity, which is nice.   But the thing that surprised me was a plastic rack that fits into the dryer and provides a non-spinning platform in the dryer.  You use it to put your things on it like shoes that you need to dry but don't want them thumping around inside.   I was gob-smacked.   

if you've never had a gas dryer - you'll find it easier on your clothes than an electric dryer.

Agree. Used a gas dryer for a year when I lived in the Boston suburbs. Loved it. (And a gas range too, wife wants it real bad.)
Unfortunately it costs crazy numbers to get a gas tank and lines run into our current house. And need a permit.
But if we do move in next couple of years, we'll be looking for a house that has gas lines for water heater (tank or tankless), range, and dryer. Many newer builds have gas lines, our late '70s ranch house doesn't.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2145 on: January 31, 2020, 05:46:06 PM »
LOL, the only gas dryer I have ever used (an old one at a relative's "cabin") burned holes in my sheets.

:-)

BigIslandGuy

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2146 on: January 31, 2020, 05:47:49 PM »
A 70 year old man and his 64 year old SO take their aging van to a dealer to get repairs. While waiting, their eyes catch on a new Dodge Journey SUV for about 20k sticker.
They both get Social Security - that's their only source of income.  He gets 1000, she gets 750. 
They are upside down on the vehicle being repaired. They get $1,500 trade allowance but loan payoff of $5,800, so they roll the $3,,300 into new loan. And get sold a $3,600 service contract. Payments are $700 per month.  So of their $1750 income, 700 will go to the new vehicle. And of course rent of 520 so that leaves them about $530 for everything else.

Did I mention his financial statements shown to the dealer show 2 bank accounts. First has $24 positive balance and the other is overdrawn by about $150. So they have less than zero money.

Their loan is for 26.5k at over 20% APR. This works for 1 month.

Then she dies. Now he is stuck with the loan and now only $1,000 income and $1,200 between vehicle and the rent. 

Can there be a worse story?

It ought to be illegal for a business to gouge an individual like that. Seriously! Not everyone has the same level of intellect and impulse control to understand how bad their choices are. SO many stories of people buying cars and houses and toys they can't even come close to affording.

We have rules around misleading and deceptive conduct here, as well as consumer credit laws (a credit provider has to undertake due diligence that a customer can service a loan).

However, numerous innovations are seeking to get around these laws, such as buy now, pay later apps and schemes - where you make a series of instalments, and are technically not charged interest.

The problem with trying to put in place unfair contract laws is the expectation that someone signing a contract has already sought proper legal advice. Perhaps there should be a requirement for the lender to ask "have you received legal or financial advice?" If the borrower waives that clause, then don't punish the lender.

Interesting though, the only reason I can think a lender would lend someone money in this situation is that the sales staff gets an upfront commission from it, and head office doesn't clue onto it until much later down the line, or just has bad internal management reporting.

The dealer salesperson may have misrepresented the income sources on the loan app to get it approved, but all parties are probably guilty of greed (buyer, dealer, and lender).

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2147 on: January 31, 2020, 05:51:31 PM »
A guy where I work is planning on buying a nice but used $4200 BMW motorcycle, a $500 helmet, a $300 riding jacket and all the safety gear. This week. He doesnt even have his 6 month emergency fund built up fully yet.  Nor does he have a motorcycle license. Nor does he have a true need for the bike. It's a total midlife crisis move to stave off burnout and feeling like he is stuck in a rut. He already has both a pickup and an electric car. Lets not forget the increase in his Geico bill to cover the motorcycle. Facepalm.

I am that guy.

« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 05:54:05 PM by BigIslandGuy »

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2148 on: January 31, 2020, 08:35:58 PM »
LOL, the only gas dryer I have ever used (an old one at a relative's "cabin") burned holes in my sheets.

:-)

Funny you mention that my electric dryer just did the same thing.  I think things got tuck somehow and one part stayed right in front of the vent.  I always use the lowest heat setting so it kinda pissed me off... like I expected the temp to be below burning point

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2149 on: February 01, 2020, 03:10:51 AM »
A guy where I work is planning on buying a nice but used $4200 BMW motorcycle, a $500 helmet, a $300 riding jacket and all the safety gear. This week. He doesnt even have his 6 month emergency fund built up fully yet.  Nor does he have a motorcycle license. Nor does he have a true need for the bike. It's a total midlife crisis move to stave off burnout and feeling like he is stuck in a rut. He already has both a pickup and an electric car. Lets not forget the increase in his Geico bill to cover the motorcycle. Facepalm.

I am that guy.
I'll punch you until you swear to get that licence first before paying any more money.