Author Topic: Overheard at Work 2  (Read 333048 times)

Sugaree

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1800 on: November 18, 2019, 09:03:32 AM »
It's bonus week and the leave/earnings statements went out Friday.  It seems that many people don't realize that supplemental wages are withheld at a higher rate.  There has been much wailing and gnashing of teeth about taxes on this bonus being withheld at ~34%.  This has been the case for each of the last 10 years, so why it would be different this year, I don't know.  And I imagine that by February many will have forgotten about it and won't realize they're getting it back in the form of a tax refund.

The sad thing is that all that drama is totally unnecessary!

If the bonus was coded as a one-time payment rather than a recurring one and the payroll software was coded correctly, it would correctly estimate the annual income and only withhold the correct amount.

I thought that was an IRS thing?  The two options from Pub 15 are to tax it at a flat 22% or to roll it into the taxable amount of the paycheck that it's paid with, which for most of us would push at least part of it into the 24% bucket.

Let's say I get paid $1000 weekly.  So, on week 1, I earn $1000.  The payroll software needs to calculate $1000 * 52 weeks / year, for an annual income of $52,000.   It then looks up the income tax on $52,000 and divides that by 52 weeks to calculate how much income tax to withhold.   This is very straightforward.

Now, let's add a $5000 bonus in week 50 and not tell the software it's a one-time payment.  In addition, let's be lazy programmers.    So, we take ($1000 wages + $5000 bonus) * 52 = $312,000 annual income.  So, we look up the tax owed for that much income (which is in a much higher tax bracket) and divide by 52, and take out the calculated amount.

That's why the bonus money is withheld at such a high rate. 

Now, let's tell the software it's a one time bonus and assume the programmers did a better job.  We'll take $1000 wages * 52 weeks/per year = $52,000 + $5000 bonus for a $57,000 annual income.  Look up the tax on that and then divide by 52 to get the withholding amount.   The bonus won't be withheld at the $312,000 income rate so more of it will go home right away (and the tax refund will be smaller).

The above is still lazy programming, though.   The reality is our payroll system should know how much we've paid the person for the year so far, so it should only be estimating based on the rest of the year.   So, to calculate our annual income, we would look up how much the person has already been paid, add in what we're paying them this time, and then estimate the recurring payments for the rest of the year.    That way, our estimate gets progressively better each pay period as the year goes on.   
Plus, if someone has an uneven income, although the initial high income paycheck will be withheld at a high rate, the lower paychecks after it would be withheld at a lower rate to compensate.   So the person would get more of their income earlier instead of having to wait for a refund.   

Downside is if you changed jobs half-way thru the year, the 2nd job would be under-withholding for the remainder of the year, because it wouldn't know about the prior job's income.

I get all that.  But what I'm saying is that the IRS specifies exactly how bonuses are taxed and the way my payroll office does it is correct as per the IRS instructions.  So, the programming is correct, but the instructions are dumb.



https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p15.pdf

Section 7 about Supplemental Wages
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 09:06:24 AM by Sugaree »

merula

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1801 on: November 18, 2019, 09:23:40 AM »
Exactly what Sugaree says. The IRS doesn't ever want to risk under-withholding, and lots of people change jobs, which is why (1) filling out the W-4 perfectly will always result in over-withholding, and (2) why they specify bonus withholding the way they do.

If you set up a payroll software system the way Swordguy laid you, any companies who use it are at risk of IRS fines for underwithholding, and officers of the company can be found personally liable. https://www.irs.gov/compliance/criminal-investigation/employer-and-employee-responsibilities-employment-tax-enforcement

The way to get the result Swordguy proposes (and what I think most Mustachians would want) is to figure out your taxes ahead of time, back into the withholding needed to get there, and submit a W-4 accordingly.

Sugaree

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1802 on: November 18, 2019, 10:47:29 AM »
Exactly what Sugaree says. The IRS doesn't ever want to risk under-withholding, and lots of people change jobs, which is why (1) filling out the W-4 perfectly will always result in over-withholding, and (2) why they specify bonus withholding the way they do.

If you set up a payroll software system the way Swordguy laid you, any companies who use it are at risk of IRS fines for underwithholding, and officers of the company can be found personally liable. https://www.irs.gov/compliance/criminal-investigation/employer-and-employee-responsibilities-employment-tax-enforcement

The way to get the result Swordguy proposes (and what I think most Mustachians would want) is to figure out your taxes ahead of time, back into the withholding needed to get there, and submit a W-4 accordingly.

From what I've seen of the new W-4, it looks like that's what the IRS is trying to do. 

TVRodriguez

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1803 on: November 18, 2019, 12:55:03 PM »
I feel sorry for my coworker. Not so long ago he bought a new, fancy pellets oven for a lot of money. Now it turns out the oven doesn't work as well as he expected and he wants to sell it on the second hand market, where you usually can't get more than 60% or the new price.

Last year he bought a (second hand) car, not knowing what Norwegian winters are like, and bought one that didn't have 4x4 or spike tires. Now he has bought a replacement second hand car. Every time you buy a car, you pay a fee (600$ or so) to get a car registered in your name.

It seems to me that he made some unfortunate choices that cost him money now.

That stinks for him, and he clearly is someone who could benefit from research rather than learning by experience.  Many people suffer from the same affliction.

But what stuck out to me was the "pellets oven," because that is something I never heard of before.  Now, thanks to you and google, I know.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1804 on: November 18, 2019, 01:47:22 PM »
What do you think Europeans, is this Wiki true?
https://www.wikihow.com/Dress-European

Well, some of the "european" style drawings look like my work clothes, but I never considered that a classic "european" look?

Seriously, there's a big difference between the various regions of Europe. I'm in NW Europe which is very casual 'skinny and flats' territory, while Germany, the next country to the east, the general style is a lot less casual, and my impression is that the further south you go, the less casual people tend to dress - but of course, that doesn't mean every single person dresses like that. And I haven't visited every single country in Europe. The weather is also very different across the different countries in Europe, so that certainly plays a role. Where I live it doesn't get cold, but the climate is wet and windy and we walk and bike a lot. So there's no point in dressing up too much.

I wouldn't consider ankle length trousers a very European thing? As far as I know they are supposed to reach but not cover the shoe, not show a bare ankle.

The stereotypical American tourist can be described as wearing oversized and very casual clothing at an age where such 'casual' clothing is maybe not as common in my country. Oversized clothing isn't so common and people over a certain age don't usually wear t-shirts. Certainly not the people that are wealthy enough to be able to afford a trip across the Atlantic. It seems like American women
over a certain age are also more used to wearing trousers rather than skirts. But this is the type of tourists you'd recognize from a distance, of course there are many more people you'd never notice.


For American exchange students, it used to be the white shoes but these days everyone wears the same type of sneakers. Big hoodies with university logos seem to be something Americans particularly like, as well as manicured nails.
I can see this.  I dress very casually (at work and elsewhere), and I'm 49.  So, I can see where some countries might have middle-aged women be more put together.  I don't really care to be put together.

I have never really liked skirts, even when in the military and required to wear them occasionally.  In fact, I do not own a single skirt right now - and only one dress.  I did notice more skirts in Copenhagen this summer (and they biked in them!)  To be honest, I don't find dresses and skirts to really flatter me.

I don't have manicured nails, but when it is cold, my warm weather jacket is a hoodie, with an elementary school logo.

merula

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1805 on: November 18, 2019, 03:01:07 PM »
Exactly what Sugaree says. The IRS doesn't ever want to risk under-withholding, and lots of people change jobs, which is why (1) filling out the W-4 perfectly will always result in over-withholding, and (2) why they specify bonus withholding the way they do.

If you set up a payroll software system the way Swordguy laid you, any companies who use it are at risk of IRS fines for underwithholding, and officers of the company can be found personally liable. https://www.irs.gov/compliance/criminal-investigation/employer-and-employee-responsibilities-employment-tax-enforcement

The way to get the result Swordguy proposes (and what I think most Mustachians would want) is to figure out your taxes ahead of time, back into the withholding needed to get there, and submit a W-4 accordingly.

From what I've seen of the new W-4, it looks like that's what the IRS is trying to do.

Thanks for the info! I had no idea there was a new W-4 in the works. Now I'm wondering if my state is going to respond, as they currently have a ban on claiming more than 10 exemptions.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1806 on: November 18, 2019, 05:32:46 PM »
In spring and autumn there are big disparities between the locals and more northern immigrants such as us. We dress along the lines of what level of warmth do I need if I'm sitting in direct sunshine in the hottest part of the day. The locals ask themselves what would be appropriate if they ended up sitting outside in the wind at 2am. So we'll be in t-shirts and they'll be in jumpers and scarves, all looking at each other as if the other is crazy.

Haha, reminds me of my holiday in Tunisia in early spring. We winter-steeled Germans walked bare feeted through the mediteranean, at 17įC air temp, with only a thin pullover and jacket bound around the waist.
The locals in their scarfs and wollen hats and thick winter clothes would look at us as if calculating if they should run away from those clearly mad people :D

I'm giggling at this because this is the same scenario as Canadians (snowbirds) in Florida in February. It's not cold, it's 18 with a high forecast of 25.   ;-)

A friend of mine just moved from Miami to Indianapolis.  She commented the locals were wearing less in 10*F than the people in Miami wear at 65*F

RetiredAt63

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1807 on: November 19, 2019, 08:57:24 AM »
In spring and autumn there are big disparities between the locals and more northern immigrants such as us. We dress along the lines of what level of warmth do I need if I'm sitting in direct sunshine in the hottest part of the day. The locals ask themselves what would be appropriate if they ended up sitting outside in the wind at 2am. So we'll be in t-shirts and they'll be in jumpers and scarves, all looking at each other as if the other is crazy.

Haha, reminds me of my holiday in Tunisia in early spring. We winter-steeled Germans walked bare feeted through the mediteranean, at 17įC air temp, with only a thin pullover and jacket bound around the waist.
The locals in their scarfs and wollen hats and thick winter clothes would look at us as if calculating if they should run away from those clearly mad people :D

I'm giggling at this because this is the same scenario as Canadians (snowbirds) in Florida in February. It's not cold, it's 18 with a high forecast of 25.   ;-)

A friend of mine just moved from Miami to Indianapolis.  She commented the locals were wearing less in 10*F than the people in Miami wear at 65*F

That is -12C. Cold enough for a warm jacket,  gloves, and a hat if it is windy.  Certainly overkill for 18C. My apartment is at 19 and I have on shorts,  a t-shirt and flipflops. No wind, of course.  What do people in Miami wear at 65F?

Jouer

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1808 on: November 19, 2019, 10:46:32 AM »
In spring and autumn there are big disparities between the locals and more northern immigrants such as us. We dress along the lines of what level of warmth do I need if I'm sitting in direct sunshine in the hottest part of the day. The locals ask themselves what would be appropriate if they ended up sitting outside in the wind at 2am. So we'll be in t-shirts and they'll be in jumpers and scarves, all looking at each other as if the other is crazy.

Haha, reminds me of my holiday in Tunisia in early spring. We winter-steeled Germans walked bare feeted through the mediteranean, at 17įC air temp, with only a thin pullover and jacket bound around the waist.
The locals in their scarfs and wollen hats and thick winter clothes would look at us as if calculating if they should run away from those clearly mad people :D

I'm giggling at this because this is the same scenario as Canadians (snowbirds) in Florida in February. It's not cold, it's 18 with a high forecast of 25.   ;-)

A friend of mine just moved from Miami to Indianapolis.  She commented the locals were wearing less in 10*F than the people in Miami wear at 65*F

That is -12C. Cold enough for a warm jacket,  gloves, and a hat if it is windy.  Certainly overkill for 18C. My apartment is at 19 and I have on shorts,  a t-shirt and flipflops. No wind, of course.  What do people in Miami wear at 65F?

It's all about relativity. A few years ago I went to Bonnaroo in Tennessee in June. It was 40C in the day and 20C at night. I grew up in Newfoundland where 20C at night is the nicest evening of the year. But in Tennessee, after it being 40C a few hours earlier, 20C felt pretty damned cold. Not hat and mitts weather...but certainly a hoodie and pants.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1809 on: November 19, 2019, 04:12:31 PM »
In spring and autumn there are big disparities between the locals and more northern immigrants such as us. We dress along the lines of what level of warmth do I need if I'm sitting in direct sunshine in the hottest part of the day. The locals ask themselves what would be appropriate if they ended up sitting outside in the wind at 2am. So we'll be in t-shirts and they'll be in jumpers and scarves, all looking at each other as if the other is crazy.

Haha, reminds me of my holiday in Tunisia in early spring. We winter-steeled Germans walked bare feeted through the mediteranean, at 17įC air temp, with only a thin pullover and jacket bound around the waist.
The locals in their scarfs and wollen hats and thick winter clothes would look at us as if calculating if they should run away from those clearly mad people :D

I'm giggling at this because this is the same scenario as Canadians (snowbirds) in Florida in February. It's not cold, it's 18 with a high forecast of 25.   ;-)

A friend of mine just moved from Miami to Indianapolis.  She commented the locals were wearing less in 10*F than the people in Miami wear at 65*F

That is -12C. Cold enough for a warm jacket,  gloves, and a hat if it is windy.  Certainly overkill for 18C. My apartment is at 19 and I have on shorts,  a t-shirt and flipflops. No wind, of course.  What do people in Miami wear at 65F?

It's all about relativity. A few years ago I went to Bonnaroo in Tennessee in June. It was 40C in the day and 20C at night. I grew up in Newfoundland where 20C at night is the nicest evening of the year. But in Tennessee, after it being 40C a few hours earlier, 20C felt pretty damned cold. Not hat and mitts weather...but certainly a hoodie and pants.

Gotcha.  Today was +2 and it felt warm.

In summer 20 is too hot at night, you can't get the house cooled off.   ;-)

Gerard

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1810 on: November 19, 2019, 05:12:04 PM »
I grew up in Newfoundland where 20C at night is the nicest evening of the year.

When I lived in Newfoundland, I used to think the local kids wearing shorts when it was 8 celsius were weird. Then I saw the Labrador kids wearing t-shirts in February!

DaMa

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1811 on: November 19, 2019, 06:42:08 PM »
I live in Michigan.  When it's 50 F in January, we wear shorts and t-shirts.  When it's 50 F in July, we wear jeans and jackets.

Dee

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1812 on: November 19, 2019, 07:55:42 PM »
I once visited Cuba in February, from Ottawa (Canada). It was, I am told, an unusually cool winter. One morning, I was swimming in the outdoor pool while the local groundskeepers were doing their landscaping work. Wearing tuques. AFAIK, everyone was comfortable enough. Sure, the unheated pool was a little cool getting in (as pools generally are) but felt just fine once I had acclimated. It was probably in the neighbourhood of 22 C or thereabouts. And beautifully sunny.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1813 on: November 19, 2019, 08:13:12 PM »
In spring and autumn there are big disparities between the locals and more northern immigrants such as us. We dress along the lines of what level of warmth do I need if I'm sitting in direct sunshine in the hottest part of the day. The locals ask themselves what would be appropriate if they ended up sitting outside in the wind at 2am. So we'll be in t-shirts and they'll be in jumpers and scarves, all looking at each other as if the other is crazy.

Haha, reminds me of my holiday in Tunisia in early spring. We winter-steeled Germans walked bare feeted through the mediteranean, at 17įC air temp, with only a thin pullover and jacket bound around the waist.
The locals in their scarfs and wollen hats and thick winter clothes would look at us as if calculating if they should run away from those clearly mad people :D

I'm giggling at this because this is the same scenario as Canadians (snowbirds) in Florida in February. It's not cold, it's 18 with a high forecast of 25.   ;-)

A friend of mine just moved from Miami to Indianapolis.  She commented the locals were wearing less in 10*F than the people in Miami wear at 65*F

That is -12C. Cold enough for a warm jacket,  gloves, and a hat if it is windy.  Certainly overkill for 18C. My apartment is at 19 and I have on shorts,  a t-shirt and flipflops. No wind, of course.  What do people in Miami wear at 65F?

A Canadian Goose Jacket, gloves, hat and scarf I think.

TVRodriguez

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1814 on: November 20, 2019, 07:00:55 AM »
What do people in Miami wear at 65F?

At 65, I'm in jeans and t-shirts if it's sunny.  The first day it hits 55 however, DH has been known to break out scarves and gloves (though he still drives his Jeep without doors), and I've been known to break out my leather jacket that gets hidden in the back of the closet the rest of the year.  Sunday morning it was 56, and our kids were thrilled to get out the "winter wear" and put on scarves to swing in the backyard.  They still left their shoes off, though.

Today it was 64 and sunny when I took the kids to school, and it was glorious.  I'm in jeans and a t-shirt, and kids were still in shorts/skirts and polo t-shirts (school uniform), btw.

In fact, I only realized this week (due to this cold spell) that my 10 year old daughter has no pants that actually fit her.  She wears shorts and skirts all the time, and the last time she put on any pants was last winter.  She's grown since then.  Time for a trip to Goodwill.

jinga nation

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1815 on: November 20, 2019, 08:41:08 AM »
What do people in Miami wear at 65F?

West-Central Florida here. We wear lots of schadenfreude, like how people wear cheap perfume.

Love to see northerners suffer in our "mild" temps of low 80s (Freedom F units). If you can't take the heat, why da faq do y'all keep coming down here annually?

But your snowbird money is very welcome. Spend, birdy, spend.

But seriously, acclimatization takes 2-4 weeks generally to get used to completely different climes, so first impressions are hilarious.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 09:40:08 AM by jinga nation »

reeshau

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1816 on: November 20, 2019, 09:10:13 AM »
I once visited Cuba in February, from Ottawa (Canada). It was, I am told, an unusually cool winter. One morning, I was swimming in the outdoor pool while the local groundskeepers were doing their landscaping work. Wearing tuques. AFAIK, everyone was comfortable enough. Sure, the unheated pool was a little cool getting in (as pools generally are) but felt just fine once I had acclimated. It was probably in the neighbourhood of 22 C or thereabouts. And beautifully sunny.

We had a similar experience with an outdoor pool in Ft. Lauderdale.  My wife was the only one swimming in the pool, on a sunny day.  A cleaning lady was walking by with her cart, looked at her, and said "You must be a Northerner."

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1817 on: November 20, 2019, 01:05:31 PM »
Heard about a new fad last night. Took a while for this middle aged guy to "get it".

https://www.google.com/search?q=vsco girl

Still not sure how old the girls can be - is this a high school thing, a college girl thing, or an adult thing? I heard about it at work.

https://youtu.be/HcaHMT9EABU?t=49

Not sure if she is stuttering or the camera has problems or ???

Never mind, just realized its not really important. ;)
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 01:08:28 PM by Just Joe »

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1818 on: November 20, 2019, 03:36:30 PM »
Heard about a new fad last night. Took a while for this middle aged guy to "get it".

https://www.google.com/search?q=vsco girl

Still not sure how old the girls can be - is this a high school thing, a college girl thing, or an adult thing? I heard about it at work.

https://youtu.be/HcaHMT9EABU?t=49

Not sure if she is stuttering or the camera has problems or ???

Never mind, just realized its not really important. ;)

Sksksksk

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1819 on: November 20, 2019, 05:24:19 PM »
Heard about a new fad last night. Took a while for this middle aged guy to "get it".

https://www.google.com/search?q=vsco girl

Still not sure how old the girls can be - is this a high school thing, a college girl thing, or an adult thing? I heard about it at work.

https://youtu.be/HcaHMT9EABU?t=49

Not sure if she is stuttering or the camera has problems or ???

Never mind, just realized its not really important. ;)

My son is in 4th grade and I know of a group of 3 girls (2 in his class) who are into this thing, so it isn't just high school/college.

economista

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1820 on: November 21, 2019, 08:40:45 AM »
Heard about a new fad last night. Took a while for this middle aged guy to "get it".

https://www.google.com/search?q=vsco girl

Still not sure how old the girls can be - is this a high school thing, a college girl thing, or an adult thing? I heard about it at work.

https://youtu.be/HcaHMT9EABU?t=49

Not sure if she is stuttering or the camera has problems or ???

Never mind, just realized its not really important. ;)

My son is in 4th grade and I know of a group of 3 girls (2 in his class) who are into this thing, so it isn't just high school/college.

My coworkerís 11 year old daughter dressed up as this for Halloween.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1821 on: November 21, 2019, 11:45:22 AM »
Heard about a new fad last night. Took a while for this middle aged guy to "get it".

https://www.google.com/search?q=vsco girl

Still not sure how old the girls can be - is this a high school thing, a college girl thing, or an adult thing? I heard about it at work.

https://youtu.be/HcaHMT9EABU?t=49

Not sure if she is stuttering or the camera has problems or ???

Never mind, just realized its not really important. ;)

My son is in 4th grade and I know of a group of 3 girls (2 in his class) who are into this thing, so it isn't just high school/college.
The funny thing about it is...so, they dress like we did in the late 80s/early 90s, with some eco stuff thrown in?  Right on.

OtherJen

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1822 on: November 21, 2019, 11:48:35 AM »
Heard about a new fad last night. Took a while for this middle aged guy to "get it".

https://www.google.com/search?q=vsco girl

Still not sure how old the girls can be - is this a high school thing, a college girl thing, or an adult thing? I heard about it at work.

https://youtu.be/HcaHMT9EABU?t=49

Not sure if she is stuttering or the camera has problems or ???

Never mind, just realized its not really important. ;)

My son is in 4th grade and I know of a group of 3 girls (2 in his class) who are into this thing, so it isn't just high school/college.
The funny thing about it is...so, they dress like we did in the late 80s/early 90s, with some eco stuff thrown in?  Right on.

That was my impression, too. I bet they'd go nuts over Hypercolor shirts.

Freedomin5

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1823 on: November 22, 2019, 11:09:44 AM »
I recently posted something for sale on our work buy/sell group for $5. One of my coworkers snapped it up. When I dropped it off at her office, she was like, ďI donít know if I have enough to pay you. I seriously hope we get paid soon. I have, like, no money. I donít know where all my money goes.Ē I didnít say anything, but sheís frequently buying useless things such as what I was selling on the buy/sell groups, sheís often signing up for the employee shopping trips, she goes to all the girls night outs and the band nights and holiday parties/dinners. Today, she asked whether her electricity would get turned off if she misses a payment.

Iím not sure how much she makes, but itís probably in the $60k-80k range after tax. And housing and health insurance are provided by the company. We expats literally have no major expenses. Even our international flights home are covered. Our biggest expense is probably food, which can be as cheap or as expensive as you make it.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1824 on: November 23, 2019, 01:07:37 AM »
I recently posted something for sale on our work buy/sell group for $5. One of my coworkers snapped it up. When I dropped it off at her office, she was like, ďI donít know if I have enough to pay you. I seriously hope we get paid soon. I have, like, no money. I donít know where all my money goes.Ē I didnít say anything, but sheís frequently buying useless things such as what I was selling on the buy/sell groups, sheís often signing up for the employee shopping trips, she goes to all the girls night outs and the band nights and holiday parties/dinners. Today, she asked whether her electricity would get turned off if she misses a payment.

Iím not sure how much she makes, but itís probably in the $60k-80k range after tax. And housing and health insurance are provided by the company. We expats literally have no major expenses. Even our international flights home are covered. Our biggest expense is probably food, which can be as cheap or as expensive as you make it.

Um... just to be sure:
She makes 5K a month, has practically no hardcoded living costs beside food AND STILL RUNS OUT OF MONEY???
How do you even do that?? I would find myself hard pressed to dish out 5K in a year for other stuff than living. I mean even if you only eat ordered food that is still only 10%. A year's clothing is 10% of that monthly income. A long holiday 50%. A new gaming rig is 20%-30% of that. Even if you are a stupid Apple slave you can't realistically get to one month worth of money there with buying a macbook and a new top phone.
How?

Freedomin5

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1825 on: November 23, 2019, 04:23:26 AM »
I recently posted something for sale on our work buy/sell group for $5. One of my coworkers snapped it up. When I dropped it off at her office, she was like, ďI donít know if I have enough to pay you. I seriously hope we get paid soon. I have, like, no money. I donít know where all my money goes.Ē I didnít say anything, but sheís frequently buying useless things such as what I was selling on the buy/sell groups, sheís often signing up for the employee shopping trips, she goes to all the girls night outs and the band nights and holiday parties/dinners. Today, she asked whether her electricity would get turned off if she misses a payment.

Iím not sure how much she makes, but itís probably in the $60k-80k range after tax. And housing and health insurance are provided by the company. We expats literally have no major expenses. Even our international flights home are covered. Our biggest expense is probably food, which can be as cheap or as expensive as you make it.

Um... just to be sure:
She makes 5K a month, has practically no hardcoded living costs beside food AND STILL RUNS OUT OF MONEY???
How do you even do that?? I would find myself hard pressed to dish out 5K in a year for other stuff than living. I mean even if you only eat ordered food that is still only 10%. A year's clothing is 10% of that monthly income. A long holiday 50%. A new gaming rig is 20%-30% of that. Even if you are a stupid Apple slave you can't realistically get to one month worth of money there with buying a macbook and a new top phone.
How?

Yeah, I have no idea. Oh, and work gives us a MacBook so we donít need to buy that either. I guess if you eat out everyday for lunch and dinner only at Western restaurants you can spend around $20/meal/person, so maybe around $100 per day for her and her family? So that could be up to $3000 per month, theoretically. Imported wine is also expensive and some of these folks drink a $50 bottle a day.

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1826 on: November 24, 2019, 06:16:59 AM »
I heard one. Different department, same organization as I work for.

That department is hiring a new employee. They are flying in three candidates on different dates for the final round of interviews.

The candidate pays for their own flight and then they are reimbursed. Yes, it could be done differently but I suspect there is a reason and this might be it.

Candidate B asks if the org can front the flight money. They can't afford to.
Org: Nope b/c rules.
Candidate B suggests that they will use their current employer's credit card and then Org can reimburse the current employer for the flight! Org isn't keen on this either.

I wonder if candidate B's current employer is event aware that candidate B is job searching. Wouldn't that be a way to learn!

Apparently the flight isn't a long one and thus less expensive that others, candidate can't borrow any money from friends or family, can't put it on a credit card, nor can they drive to the interview. The drive would be several hours but perfectly doable if they had a vehicle in reasonable condition.

Because they can't overcome this hurdle, they will probably eliminate themselves from the interview schedule.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1827 on: November 24, 2019, 08:52:26 AM »
I heard one. Different department, same organization as I work for.

That department is hiring a new employee. They are flying in three candidates on different dates for the final round of interviews.

The candidate pays for their own flight and then they are reimbursed. Yes, it could be done differently but I suspect there is a reason and this might be it.

Candidate B asks if the org can front the flight money. They can't afford to.
Org: Nope b/c rules.
Candidate B suggests that they will use their current employer's credit card and then Org can reimburse the current employer for the flight! Org isn't keen on this either.

I wonder if candidate B's current employer is event aware that candidate B is job searching. Wouldn't that be a way to learn!

Apparently the flight isn't a long one and thus less expensive that others, candidate can't borrow any money from friends or family, can't put it on a credit card, nor can they drive to the interview. The drive would be several hours but perfectly doable if they had a vehicle in reasonable condition.

Because they can't overcome this hurdle, they will probably eliminate themselves from the interview schedule.

Wow that is amazing.  I work with some people who are reluctant to pay for work things up front to be reimbursed later but I assumed that this was just an emotional thing not the fact that they had maxed out their credit cards, had no savings and couldn't borrow money from anyone.

GatorNation

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1828 on: November 24, 2019, 09:44:24 AM »
Open enrollment at work.  Many employees are complaining that our employer is not offering high premium low deductible plans.  The office does offer an HSA plan at no cost to employee.

I overhear my assistant complain about current plan options and their costs.  I told her to sign up for the free HSA plan.  As expected, she complained of the high out of pocket expenses associated with plan.  I told her to calculate the expected high deductible to what she could be depositing in her HSA account.  Had no idea what I was talking about.  Also mentioned that she can't afford the high deductible.

She leaves this week to her yearly trip to Spain and north Africa.  Eats out every meal and is always going to extravagant weekend trips.  Although she's 40, she still lives with her parents because she says housing is too expensive to move out.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1829 on: November 24, 2019, 06:25:26 PM »
Open enrollment at work.  Many employees are complaining that our employer is not offering high premium low deductible plans.  The office does offer an HSA plan at no cost to employee.

I overhear my assistant complain about current plan options and their costs.  I told her to sign up for the free HSA plan.  As expected, she complained of the high out of pocket expenses associated with plan.  I told her to calculate the expected high deductible to what she could be depositing in her HSA account.  Had no idea what I was talking about.  Also mentioned that she can't afford the high deductible.

She leaves this week to her yearly trip to Spain and north Africa.  Eats out every meal and is always going to extravagant weekend trips.  Although she's 40, she still lives with her parents because she says housing is too expensive to move out.

Some plans make absolutely no sense.  The high premium low deductible plan offered to us is so expensive that you will never come out ahead.  Annual premiums are more than the out of pocket max on cheaper plans with the same system.  Of course this is affected by how much the employer share is, but perhaps someone would choose it if they know they are only going to pay 1-2 months premiums for a very expensive procedure and then quit?

Steeze

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1830 on: November 24, 2019, 08:32:43 PM »
Quote
...but perhaps someone would choose it if they know they are only going to pay 1-2 months premiums for a very expensive procedure and then quit?

Did this once. Insurance company went out of business so I had open enrollment for 3 months then another open enrollment. Went HDHP to platinum plan then back to HDHP. Racked up $40k+ in medical bills including every blood test, allergy test imaginable, and had surgery to correct a deviated septum. Cost me about $3000 in premiums.

Turns out my testosterone levels are fine and Iím not allergic to anything. Also can Sleep with my mouth closed now.

Somewhere out there is a line in an accounting spreadsheet with a red number next to my name indicating the loss the insurance company took by insuring me.

Sugaree

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1831 on: November 25, 2019, 06:21:35 AM »
I heard one. Different department, same organization as I work for.

That department is hiring a new employee. They are flying in three candidates on different dates for the final round of interviews.

The candidate pays for their own flight and then they are reimbursed. Yes, it could be done differently but I suspect there is a reason and this might be it.

Candidate B asks if the org can front the flight money. They can't afford to.
Org: Nope b/c rules.
Candidate B suggests that they will use their current employer's credit card and then Org can reimburse the current employer for the flight! Org isn't keen on this either.

I wonder if candidate B's current employer is event aware that candidate B is job searching. Wouldn't that be a way to learn!

Apparently the flight isn't a long one and thus less expensive that others, candidate can't borrow any money from friends or family, can't put it on a credit card, nor can they drive to the interview. The drive would be several hours but perfectly doable if they had a vehicle in reasonable condition.

Because they can't overcome this hurdle, they will probably eliminate themselves from the interview schedule.

Wow that is amazing.  I work with some people who are reluctant to pay for work things up front to be reimbursed later but I assumed that this was just an emotional thing not the fact that they had maxed out their credit cards, had no savings and couldn't borrow money from anyone.

I work with a bunch of people who can't imagine that I would want to/be able to pay for my own, very infrequent, business travel and then be reimbursed. 

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1832 on: November 25, 2019, 08:00:36 AM »
I heard one. Different department, same organization as I work for.

That department is hiring a new employee. They are flying in three candidates on different dates for the final round of interviews.

The candidate pays for their own flight and then they are reimbursed. Yes, it could be done differently but I suspect there is a reason and this might be it.

Candidate B asks if the org can front the flight money. They can't afford to.
Org: Nope b/c rules.
Candidate B suggests that they will use their current employer's credit card and then Org can reimburse the current employer for the flight! Org isn't keen on this either.

I wonder if candidate B's current employer is event aware that candidate B is job searching. Wouldn't that be a way to learn!

Apparently the flight isn't a long one and thus less expensive that others, candidate can't borrow any money from friends or family, can't put it on a credit card, nor can they drive to the interview. The drive would be several hours but perfectly doable if they had a vehicle in reasonable condition.

Because they can't overcome this hurdle, they will probably eliminate themselves from the interview schedule.

Wow that is amazing.  I work with some people who are reluctant to pay for work things up front to be reimbursed later but I assumed that this was just an emotional thing not the fact that they had maxed out their credit cards, had no savings and couldn't borrow money from anyone.

Last time I traveled overnight for work I traveled with three other coworkers. I put the whole thing on my credit card for the points and convenience. Rather than wait for them to get it together and make the arrangements I could choose a comfortable place to stay close to our destination which I did.

Employer reimbursed each person individually and each person passed the money to me - except one. Two months later the highest paid member of that trip as yet to reimburse me though they have publicly promised they would. A couple of hundred bucks more or less. That person is over me on the pecking order.

I won't take the initiative to be efficient again.

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1833 on: November 25, 2019, 08:04:48 AM »
I can just imagine the next trip. Sorry, my supervisor can't join us for this meeting with you the project partner b/c they can't front their their portion of the hotel bill. So, let's get this meeting started...

ysette9

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1834 on: November 25, 2019, 09:21:53 AM »
I have never worked for a company that allowed business travel or purchase to be put on a personal credit cArd. I find that whole concept to be weird.

OtherJen

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1835 on: November 25, 2019, 09:55:55 AM »
I have never worked for a company that allowed business travel or purchase to be put on a personal credit cArd. I find that whole concept to be weird.

Academia, maybe? I was always responsible for covering my own travel expenses, which were then reimbursed by the department. They didn't care how I originally paid, as long as I presented valid receipts.

Kris

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1836 on: November 25, 2019, 10:23:34 AM »
I have never worked for a company that allowed business travel or purchase to be put on a personal credit cArd. I find that whole concept to be weird.

Academia, maybe? I was always responsible for covering my own travel expenses, which were then reimbursed by the department. They didn't care how I originally paid, as long as I presented valid receipts.

This is definitely changing, in my experience. At least in public institutions. Itís moving toward having to pay with a university corporate card, in your name. (And at least in some cases, a centralized travel office through which you book the travel, I guess so you donít go off and spend mad money on luxury digs, first-class tickets, etc.)

That travel is then reimbursed, through a ridiculously bureaucratic process that easily erases any intended savings.

DadJokes

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1837 on: November 25, 2019, 10:28:50 AM »
I have never worked for a company that allowed business travel or purchase to be put on a personal credit cArd. I find that whole concept to be weird.

It's pretty normal I think. It's also a great way to get free travel reward points, as long as you think the company is solvent enough to reimburse you. I probably wouldn't want to count on reimbursement from a company to fly down for an interview. That's placing a lot of trust in a company you don't even work for.

SwordGuy

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1838 on: November 25, 2019, 11:04:21 AM »
I have never worked for a company that allowed business travel or purchase to be put on a personal credit cArd. I find that whole concept to be weird.

Academia, maybe? I was always responsible for covering my own travel expenses, which were then reimbursed by the department. They didn't care how I originally paid, as long as I presented valid receipts.

This is definitely changing, in my experience. At least in public institutions. Itís moving toward having to pay with a university corporate card, in your name. (And at least in some cases, a centralized travel office through which you book the travel, I guess so you donít go off and spend mad money on luxury digs, first-class tickets, etc.)

That travel is then reimbursed, through a ridiculously bureaucratic process that easily erases any intended savings.

A corporate card in your name may well be a fancy way to say "A card in my name, whose debts I am personally responsible for."
If your company doesn't pay, you get to.   I had a friend who had that happen.   You might want to check the fine print on that card agreement.

ysette9

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1839 on: November 25, 2019, 12:20:51 PM »
My corporate cards have never shown up on my credit reports.

I was told it was a way of reducing fraud

PrairieBeardstache

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1840 on: November 25, 2019, 01:00:51 PM »
I have never worked for a company that allowed business travel or purchase to be put on a personal credit cArd. I find that whole concept to be weird.

Academia, maybe? I was always responsible for covering my own travel expenses, which were then reimbursed by the department. They didn't care how I originally paid, as long as I presented valid receipts.

This is definitely changing, in my experience. At least in public institutions. Itís moving toward having to pay with a university corporate card, in your name. (And at least in some cases, a centralized travel office through which you book the travel, I guess so you donít go off and spend mad money on luxury digs, first-class tickets, etc.)

That travel is then reimbursed, through a ridiculously bureaucratic process that easily erases any intended savings.

A corporate card in your name may well be a fancy way to say "A card in my name, whose debts I am personally responsible for."
If your company doesn't pay, you get to.   I had a friend who had that happen.   You might want to check the fine print on that card agreement.

I worked for a company that switched from having us use our own cards and be reimbursed. Which, we were all fine with because we spent a lot (I was averaging around $100k/year in expenses) and it resulted in us collecting the rewards (I received about $2k/year). To exactly the situation you describe. We retained all of the risk and lost any of the rewards...

techwiz

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1841 on: November 25, 2019, 01:59:09 PM »
A co-worker talking in lunch room to a group of us about gambling at the local casino. 

co-worker: I don't go to the casino on Fridays or the weekend the machines never pay out on those days. I only go now on Thursdays.... (lots of details on which machines pay out and how to pick the right ones)Ö if I win the 10,000 jackpot I would be able to payoff three of my credit cards.   

I couldn't help myself and said: Paying off the credit cards would be like winning 19% every month.

Co-worker sat with a blank stare for a few seconds then changed the topic to talk about something else....sometimes I should just keep my mouth shut!


Kris

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1842 on: November 25, 2019, 02:10:24 PM »
I have never worked for a company that allowed business travel or purchase to be put on a personal credit cArd. I find that whole concept to be weird.

Academia, maybe? I was always responsible for covering my own travel expenses, which were then reimbursed by the department. They didn't care how I originally paid, as long as I presented valid receipts.

This is definitely changing, in my experience. At least in public institutions. Itís moving toward having to pay with a university corporate card, in your name. (And at least in some cases, a centralized travel office through which you book the travel, I guess so you donít go off and spend mad money on luxury digs, first-class tickets, etc.)

That travel is then reimbursed, through a ridiculously bureaucratic process that easily erases any intended savings.

A corporate card in your name may well be a fancy way to say "A card in my name, whose debts I am personally responsible for."
If your company doesn't pay, you get to.   I had a friend who had that happen.   You might want to check the fine print on that card agreement.

Oh, yeah, that's definitely the case.

But it's a card that you can only use to pay the things they allow you to buy.

And you don't get any of the associated miles, etc. for anything you purchase.

And if you happen to use your own card instead, you get yelled at by pompous accounting types and you have to go around and around with them as they threaten not to reimburse you.

It's a great system, really.

Here4theGB

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1843 on: November 25, 2019, 02:56:19 PM »
Anyone remember Diner's Club credit cards?  I was given a corporate version in my first professional position to use for travel (back then we had to do all of this ourselves).  We had to pay the bill each month and the company paid us for our expenses.  Another fellow in my entrance "class" I ended up working with on the same team.  When he got his card, he went out and furnished his whole apartment, furniture, tv, all of it, under the assumption that it was like every other credit card and he could carry a balance.  Not so, like Amex, needs to be paid in full each month.  Bill came do, he tried to make a $50 payment or whatever, CC company contacts our employer, etc.......I'm not sure what the final outcome was, I assume they paid it and withheld earnings until paid.  I would've fired the idiot, but they didn't.  What a first impression, this happened the first billing cycle after being hired.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1844 on: November 25, 2019, 04:39:01 PM »
My current employer has a "corporate card" that must be used for travel for at least the airline and hotel, and generally for conferences and similar expenses. It's in the employee's name and appears on his or her own credit report. But of course there aren't any goodies like air miles or rebates. After an expense is charged, there's a process to apply for reimbursement (which is usually pretty prompt) and the reimbursement generally arrives before the bill is due. The normal thing for people to do is to use the reimbursement to pay the bill. The per diem is generous enough for a reasonably frugal person to come out ahead. But apparently enough people tried to carry a balance on *top* of their reimbursement *and* the per diem, and it was common enough for Corporate to throw a snit fit over it and start forwarding late payment or balance carrying information to the employees' managers.

Rural

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1845 on: November 25, 2019, 06:42:08 PM »
I have never worked for a company that allowed business travel or purchase to be put on a personal credit cArd. I find that whole concept to be weird.

Academia, maybe? I was always responsible for covering my own travel expenses, which were then reimbursed by the department. They didn't care how I originally paid, as long as I presented valid receipts.

This is definitely changing, in my experience. At least in public institutions. Itís moving toward having to pay with a university corporate card, in your name. (And at least in some cases, a centralized travel office through which you book the travel, I guess so you donít go off and spend mad money on luxury digs, first-class tickets, etc.)

That travel is then reimbursed, through a ridiculously bureaucratic process that easily erases any intended savings.


This varies depending on the place, I think. Well, all except the ridiculous bureaucratic  process Ė that's universal. But I just filed for reimbursement for travel from my public institution today. There's no way to get a university card. The options are use a personal credit card or petition the bursars office to physically cut a check ahead of time.

markbike528CBX

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1846 on: November 25, 2019, 11:45:05 PM »
As always, Godwin's Law applies even to expense reports.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4Murq5x_pw

You nearly feel for the guy, until...... you realize who you're feeling sorry for.
German speakers would understand the actual wording, and not get the impact of the subtitles.

BTW. The movie from which it is taken, Downfall, is a really good movie.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1847 on: November 26, 2019, 01:16:55 AM »
My current employer has a "corporate card" that must be used for travel for at least the airline and hotel, and generally for conferences and similar expenses. It's in the employee's name and appears on his or her own credit report. But of course there aren't any goodies like air miles or rebates. After an expense is charged, there's a process to apply for reimbursement (which is usually pretty prompt) and the reimbursement generally arrives before the bill is due. The normal thing for people to do is to use the reimbursement to pay the bill. The per diem is generous enough for a reasonably frugal person to come out ahead. But apparently enough people tried to carry a balance on *top* of their reimbursement *and* the per diem, and it was common enough for Corporate to throw a snit fit over it and start forwarding late payment or balance carrying information to the employees' managers.

My jobs lets you pay flights, hotels and conferences yourself and will only reimburse after the event. A year ago I had an event which was quite pricey, in the range of 1000$. Of course I had no problem paying it, but I found it a bit unreasonable to pay this large amount 2-3 months ahead and get reimbursed to much later. When I asked the payment department, they said I could ask for an advance in my travel bill, which I did.
There is also a special credit card that we can order, with which as can pay flights and pay them after reimbursement, whenever that may be. I haven't bothered to get that card, as I don't travel so often.

TomTX

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1848 on: November 26, 2019, 05:37:38 AM »
My current employer has a "corporate card" that must be used for travel for at least the airline and hotel, and generally for conferences and similar expenses. It's in the employee's name and appears on his or her own credit report. But of course there aren't any goodies like air miles or rebates. After an expense is charged, there's a process to apply for reimbursement (which is usually pretty prompt) and the reimbursement generally arrives before the bill is due. The normal thing for people to do is to use the reimbursement to pay the bill. The per diem is generous enough for a reasonably frugal person to come out ahead. But apparently enough people tried to carry a balance on *top* of their reimbursement *and* the per diem, and it was common enough for Corporate to throw a snit fit over it and start forwarding late payment or balance carrying information to the employees' managers.

My jobs lets you pay flights, hotels and conferences yourself and will only reimburse after the event. A year ago I had an event which was quite pricey, in the range of 1000$. Of course I had no problem paying it, but I found it a bit unreasonable to pay this large amount 2-3 months ahead and get reimbursed to much later. When I asked the payment department, they said I could ask for an advance in my travel bill, which I did.
There is also a special credit card that we can order, with which as can pay flights and pay them after reimbursement, whenever that may be. I haven't bothered to get that card, as I don't travel so often.

You might ask the conference if you can register well in advance, but pay upon arrival. I just did this for a conference - and while it was a bit of a hassle, it meant I wasn't carrying the expense for months in advance.

economista

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1849 on: November 26, 2019, 09:42:33 AM »
I work for the federal government and we have travel cards that show up on our credit reports and they must be used for all flights and hotels. The limit on the card is set by your credit score and I know of at least one coworker who got approved for a travel card, but the limit was something like $100 so he couldnít actually use it. Our reimbursement goes directly onto the card and I had an issue last year where I promptly submitted my voucher for reimbursement, but my supervisor never went into the system and approved it, so the bill on the card didnít get paid. I had never even received a bill before because I was so used to it being paid before a bill came out. The bill went to an old address, was forwarded to my new address, and showed up after the due date! I was nervous that it would impact my credit score but luckily it never showed up as late on my credit report.

Another coworker got in trouble because we are only allowed to use the cards for work sponsored travel, but he wanted to buy new golf clubs without his wife knowing so he used the travel card and then planned to pay the bill himself once it came. The finance department caught him and he got into trouble and almost lost his travel card over it.