Author Topic: Overheard at Work 2  (Read 929232 times)

TomTX

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1650 on: October 12, 2019, 07:23:03 AM »
Along the same lines there was a story in NY Times I read where they found that unemployed people look forward to the weekend almost as much as people working - this was also due to a lot of fun happens on weekends when more people have time to do it.

My retired friends typically have an active dislike for the weekend. Stores, parks, library, etc are all too crowded.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1651 on: October 12, 2019, 07:57:17 AM »

Your profile link www.theliveinlandlord.com goes to the Baidu search engine?

Oops, I forgot to update my profile. I let the blog site go because it wasn't profitable enough to justify my time.

BlueHouse

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1652 on: October 12, 2019, 08:15:53 AM »
Coworker 1 this week the day after corporate announcement that our pension plan was frozen (not for me as it has been closed to new hires for 7 years). "I upped my 401k 1% to make up for it", with it being the frozen pension. This was also immediately after Coworker1 had a discussion with Coworker2 who said both he and his wife were, and had been, maxing their 401k's for years. CW1 said "I don't know how you can do that". Granted, CW2 almost certainly makes about 20% more than CW1, but we're all paid low (very low) six figures. And there is a 50% 401k match. I just kept drinking my free coffee.

I don't understand any part of this story. 

partgypsy

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1653 on: October 12, 2019, 08:39:41 AM »
The HCE thing is a disappointment. I was stuck there at my old company. No more at my current one! And our match is 50% up to the full $19k. And the plan is at vanguard and offers auto Roth conversions for mega backdoor Roth.

I am totally in love with my current 401k plan.

Man I would be too. I don't often experience jealousy, feeling it here

Linea_Norway

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1654 on: October 13, 2019, 12:41:54 PM »
Along the same lines there was a story in NY Times I read where they found that unemployed people look forward to the weekend almost as much as people working - this was also due to a lot of fun happens on weekends when more people have time to do it.

My retired friends typically have an active dislike for the weekend. Stores, parks, library, etc are all too crowded.

I already notice a dislike for visiting crowded areas in the weekend, now that I don't work on Fridays.

The_Big_H

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1655 on: October 13, 2019, 03:37:42 PM »
Because naturally women will be judging you based on the size of the parking space you fill up.

Hah

Well... if there's any truth to the saying that consumer-sukka women dress to impress other women, maybe consumer-sukka men buy cars to impress other men.

D**k measuring contest.  The supreme irony is the pickup truck is supposed to show you are "a hard workin' man" with a rough and tumble go-anywhere life.  Yet mostly the truck fills up corporate office parking lots.  I think a lot of men feel emasculated working white-collar so they buy the vehicle of the blue-collar/rancher/farmer/contractor.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1656 on: October 13, 2019, 11:27:10 PM »
Along the same lines there was a story in NY Times I read where they found that unemployed people look forward to the weekend almost as much as people working - this was also due to a lot of fun happens on weekends when more people have time to do it.

My retired friends typically have an active dislike for the weekend. Stores, parks, library, etc are all too crowded.

I already notice a dislike for visiting crowded areas in the weekend, now that I don't work on Fridays.

I'd happily go to Costco for a hamburger today... as long as it's Tuesday morning.

TVRodriguez

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1657 on: October 14, 2019, 10:26:56 AM »
Because naturally women will be judging you based on the size of the parking space you fill up.

Hah

Well... if there's any truth to the saying that consumer-sukka women dress to impress other women, maybe consumer-sukka men buy cars to impress other men.

D**k measuring contest.  The supreme irony is the pickup truck is supposed to show you are "a hard workin' man" with a rough and tumble go-anywhere life.  Yet mostly the truck fills up corporate office parking lots.  I think a lot of men feel emasculated working white-collar so they buy the vehicle of the blue-collar/rancher/farmer/contractor.

A minimalist-clean-freak-yet-consumerist friend of mine has told me that he wants his next car (he leases) to be a $70,000 pickup truck.  He works in an office all day, no calluses on his hands.  He wants the pickup because he can "throw the kids' dirty sports things in the back in the covered bed and not stink up the SUV after a game."  He has one child, age 3, no sports teams.

Davnasty

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1658 on: October 14, 2019, 10:48:54 AM »
Because naturally women will be judging you based on the size of the parking space you fill up.

Hah

Well... if there's any truth to the saying that consumer-sukka women dress to impress other women, maybe consumer-sukka men buy cars to impress other men.

D**k measuring contest.  The supreme irony is the pickup truck is supposed to show you are "a hard workin' man" with a rough and tumble go-anywhere life.  Yet mostly the truck fills up corporate office parking lots.  I think a lot of men feel emasculated working white-collar so they buy the vehicle of the blue-collar/rancher/farmer/contractor.

A minimalist-clean-freak-yet-consumerist friend of mine has told me that he wants his next car (he leases) to be a $70,000 pickup truck.  He works in an office all day, no calluses on his hands.  He wants the pickup because he can "throw the kids' dirty sports things in the back in the covered bed and not stink up the SUV after a game."  He has one child, age 3, no sports teams.

Wow. I've seen people reach for justifications of their vehicle choice but that's on a different level.

trashtalk

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1659 on: October 14, 2019, 11:30:17 AM »
This is just a friend not a coworker but a lady I've known for 10 years keeps saying "we should all go to [expensive resort hotel next county over] again together!" Or "we should all rent a house with a pool in [fancy resort town] for a couple weeks and go hang out." Aside from the fact that everyone is working and raising children and we don't really have the bandwidth for this I think this woman is in grave financial trouble and just can't admit that to herself.

This woman has been downwardly mobile since I've known her. She was laid off from a big corporate job a couple years after I met her and has probably not been continuously employed for more than a year since. There have been *a lot* of "layoffs" and "downsizings" and "position eliminated" and "crazy boss" situations but I think it adds up to *she* is unstable and unreliable and perpetually late and is generally always flying around like a chicken with her head cut off and people just terminate the relationship sooner rather than later.

She is now earning (when she is employed) at the poverty level at best. She lives in a modest home in a very expensive section of town. She was living off a settlement for a while, and then credit cards. She has complained about property taxes being a huge financial burden. She is a single mom and has a medically fragile child. I'm pretty sure she lives in a hoarder house based on her stated struggles with "decluttering" but I'm not sure since we've never been invited over. She is very overweight--once broke a chair at a gathering, can't sit in middle chairs, chairs with arms, etc. She honestly seems ill and overwhelmed and even though her family and friends try to help out things are getting worse not better.

But she cannot seem to just take it down a notch and stop traveling, stop consuming, stop biting off more than she can chew and just pause and settle down and get her shit together.

So long story short this woman absolutely does not have the disposable income for a vacation but she's always the social recruiter and she's still trying to do this even though she needs to just help herself first.

I wish I knew how to help her but she's seemingly determined to prove she's fine and invulnerable and definitely not a rapidly collapsing mess.

Rubic

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1660 on: October 14, 2019, 12:48:16 PM »
A minimalist-clean-freak-yet-consumerist friend of mine has told me that he wants his next car (he leases) to be a $70,000 pickup truck.  He works in an office all day, no calluses on his hands.  He wants the pickup because he can "throw the kids' dirty sports things in the back in the covered bed and not stink up the SUV after a game."  He has one child, age 3, no sports teams.

A carrier rack cargo top is out of the question?

SunnyDays

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1661 on: October 14, 2019, 01:18:44 PM »
Wow, Trashtalk, that's sad.  Queen of denial, huh?  As Dr. Phil says, you can't change what you don't acknowledge.

Kronsey

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1662 on: October 14, 2019, 02:15:30 PM »
This is just a friend not a coworker but a lady I've known for 10 years keeps saying "we should all go to [expensive resort hotel next county over] again together!" Or "we should all rent a house with a pool in [fancy resort town] for a couple weeks and go hang out." Aside from the fact that everyone is working and raising children and we don't really have the bandwidth for this I think this woman is in grave financial trouble and just can't admit that to herself.

This woman has been downwardly mobile since I've known her. She was laid off from a big corporate job a couple years after I met her and has probably not been continuously employed for more than a year since. There have been *a lot* of "layoffs" and "downsizings" and "position eliminated" and "crazy boss" situations but I think it adds up to *she* is unstable and unreliable and perpetually late and is generally always flying around like a chicken with her head cut off and people just terminate the relationship sooner rather than later.

She is now earning (when she is employed) at the poverty level at best. She lives in a modest home in a very expensive section of town. She was living off a settlement for a while, and then credit cards. She has complained about property taxes being a huge financial burden. She is a single mom and has a medically fragile child. I'm pretty sure she lives in a hoarder house based on her stated struggles with "decluttering" but I'm not sure since we've never been invited over. She is very overweight--once broke a chair at a gathering, can't sit in middle chairs, chairs with arms, etc. She honestly seems ill and overwhelmed and even though her family and friends try to help out things are getting worse not better.

But she cannot seem to just take it down a notch and stop traveling, stop consuming, stop biting off more than she can chew and just pause and settle down and get her shit together.

So long story short this woman absolutely does not have the disposable income for a vacation but she's always the social recruiter and she's still trying to do this even though she needs to just help herself first.

I wish I knew how to help her but she's seemingly determined to prove she's fine and invulnerable and definitely not a rapidly collapsing mess.

In the USA if the drug of choice is food or overspending/consumerism, you will likely receive a pat on the back for your addiction problems. But if the drug of choice happened to be cocaine (or similar), all family and friends would be trying to get her help/treatment (and rightfully so obviously).

It is sad that we've accepted that level of depravity as normal/ok in our society.

TVRodriguez

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1663 on: October 14, 2019, 02:33:32 PM »
A minimalist-clean-freak-yet-consumerist friend of mine has told me that he wants his next car (he leases) to be a $70,000 pickup truck.  He works in an office all day, no calluses on his hands.  He wants the pickup because he can "throw the kids' dirty sports things in the back in the covered bed and not stink up the SUV after a game."  He has one child, age 3, no sports teams.

A carrier rack cargo top is out of the question?

It didn't come up, but I'm sure that would be deemed inconvenient. 

Montecarlo

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1664 on: October 14, 2019, 02:57:57 PM »
A minimalist-clean-freak-yet-consumerist friend of mine has told me that he wants his next car (he leases) to be a $70,000 pickup truck.  He works in an office all day, no calluses on his hands.  He wants the pickup because he can "throw the kids' dirty sports things in the back in the covered bed and not stink up the SUV after a game."  He has one child, age 3, no sports teams.

If I'm spending near 6 figures on a vehicle, it's going to have 2 seats and a manual gearbox.  Or helps produce revenue.

I can't even imagine... actually, if I had more than $15 million, I'd probably have a ridiculous range rover, so I can imagine...

trashtalk

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Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1665 on: October 14, 2019, 03:42:56 PM »
A work friend of mine - who is lovely - sends her children to private schools, even though she really can't afford it. She earns a slightly above average income, but her husband's been unemployed for a long time and has only just got a job. They've taken out a second mortgage to afford it, even though they're in the catchment area for a really well respected, high performing and sought after public school. Then she says that she struggles to afford the private school and is annoyed that people think that private school kids are privileged.

It's just weird to me. If you have to struggle to do it, and there's no REASON to do it, why are you doing it? I also think that some people struggle to just get food on the table and a roof over their heads, so I will reserve most of my sympathy for them, as opposed to (lovely but misguided) people who are basically living above their means.

Can't really say that, though. But when she says things like "Should I keep them in private school?", I say "You don't have to, the other school's a really good option."

People get very emotional about their kid's education. I've looked at private schools myself, and even though we can well afford it, I just don't want to go down that rabbit hole. What has helped me avoid that expense is a) my older one would not be accepted into most regular private schools because of his special needs and b) I've heard some not so nice things about extreme snobbiness from parents whose kids have attended private schools near us.

I can totally understand the draw though, especially since I work part time as an educational consultant. Especially when it's a place where your child is spending most of their waking hours five days a week. I haven't yet found a totally convincing argument against private education for friends who have this emotional want for it for their kids.
Back in the olden days before the internet, I was a Money Magazine addict. I remember reading an article to the same effect. Buying the more expensive house in the best public school district was a better return on investment than paying for private school. It made total sense to me. OTOH, I kinda know where you live. If those schools aren't top-notch, where the hell are they?

We live in a great school district but our neighborhood school will not allow my son to attend because of his special needs :( The district assigned him to a special class in a different school, which I didn't feel was beneficial for him. We fought hard for it, but stopped short of suing the district because I found a better solution. That's also why I was looking at private schools.

**I remember a while back in the Bay Area you could totally see the price disparity on real estate in different school districts. But as the market continued heating up, even houses in the not so good school districts started selling like hot cakes. Hell, even a burnt shack in a crappy district sold for over a million dollars. But you could see that over the years the public school test scores started going up too. My theory is that the parents spent so much money just to get a place to live that they no longer had any dough left for private school.**


Seeing similar changes in my SoCal neighborhood. I think this absolutely explains why the local school has dramatically improved in the "rankings" over the last five years. It corresponds very closely with the era when the houses in the area were suddenly $800k then $900k then over a million. Meanwhile the condos went from $250k to $400k and so on.

Young families that move here for the district and either don't seek or don't get into the fancy lottery-only immersion "magnet" default to the local school. There are few if any affordable K-12 parochial schools in the area and the local private schools are all *at least* $35k a year (not including extras expenses and fundraising). Even if locals could afford those schools outright, the available slots are often taken by kids from much wealthier neighborhoods in the area.

So the local "middle class" (LOL) returns to the public schools they might have bypassed 30 or 40 years ago, scores increase as kids from enriched environments enroll, and the virtuous or vicious cycle (depending on how you see things) increases in speed.

moof

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1666 on: October 14, 2019, 04:34:40 PM »
...
A minimalist-clean-freak-yet-consumerist friend of mine has told me that he wants his next car (he leases) to be a $70,000 pickup truck.  He works in an office all day, no calluses on his hands.  He wants the pickup because he can "throw the kids' dirty sports things in the back in the covered bed and not stink up the SUV after a game."  He has one child, age 3, no sports teams.
More cars than not are sold aspirationally.  Sports cars make no sense when confined to traffic laden roads with speeds limits.  4-wheel drive SUV's make no sense in urban jungles (well, depending on pothole density in your area).  Giant pickups for non-existent kids sports teams make no sense to the father of 3 year old.

Humans have dreams and fears, cars appeal to both.  Buried in the back of folks heads is that they could be a street racer, so of course they need to add a wing on the back and cotter pin closures for their hoods.  They might encounter a zombie apocalypse and need a lift kit and a winch on their pickup.  In my youth I feel for buying a tow package for a new truck, which NEVER towed a damn thing for the life of the truck.  So on and so forth.

Much of consumer sucka culture is about stoking those dreams and fears, then selling the merch to satiate the need.

Only in places like this forum are such spells lifted so that the shear insanity can be seen plain as day.

cloudsail

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1667 on: October 15, 2019, 12:29:30 AM »
This is not work but a family friend.

They recently came into a large windfall due to the sale of some rental property. They owe quite a bit of capital gains tax on it so are looking to doing a 1031, which is a decent idea. However, they apparently have a rich uncle who is a Harvard professor telling them that they should look into venture capital or private equity. These friends know next to nothing about investing, and are generally not great with money, so the wife asked me what I thought.

I honestly don't know what to say. I hate to give other people money advice, but I know that this represents the vast majority of their net worth. I just... well I don't know if I should say what I think or keep my mouth shut.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1668 on: October 15, 2019, 01:01:49 AM »
This is not work but a family friend.

They recently came into a large windfall due to the sale of some rental property. They owe quite a bit of capital gains tax on it so are looking to doing a 1031, which is a decent idea. However, they apparently have a rich uncle who is a Harvard professor telling them that they should look into venture capital or private equity. These friends know next to nothing about investing, and are generally not great with money, so the wife asked me what I thought.

I honestly don't know what to say. I hate to give other people money advice, but I know that this represents the vast majority of their net worth. I just... well I don't know if I should say what I think or keep my mouth shut.

You should not advice people to put all their assets in the stock market. I think the general rule would be to only invest money in the stock market that you are comfortable loosing, or plummeting with 80% for a period.

cloudsail

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1669 on: October 15, 2019, 02:18:26 AM »
This is not work but a family friend.

They recently came into a large windfall due to the sale of some rental property. They owe quite a bit of capital gains tax on it so are looking to doing a 1031, which is a decent idea. However, they apparently have a rich uncle who is a Harvard professor telling them that they should look into venture capital or private equity. These friends know next to nothing about investing, and are generally not great with money, so the wife asked me what I thought.

I honestly don't know what to say. I hate to give other people money advice, but I know that this represents the vast majority of their net worth. I just... well I don't know if I should say what I think or keep my mouth shut.

You should not advice people to put all their assets in the stock market. I think the general rule would be to only invest money in the stock market that you are comfortable loosing, or plummeting with 80% for a period.

Oh, of course not. I thought their original idea of doing a 1031 was fine, since real estate is an area that they are familiar with and somewhat knowledgeable about. However, they seem to be giving serious thought to the "venture capital and private equity" advice of this uncle because he's "rich and very conservative." I want to tell my friend this is a very scary area especially if you don't know anything about investing, but I don't generally give advice to people about their money.

Jouer

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1670 on: October 15, 2019, 08:49:26 AM »
A minimalist-clean-freak-yet-consumerist friend of mine has told me that he wants his next car (he leases) to be a $70,000 pickup truck.  He works in an office all day, no calluses on his hands.  He wants the pickup because he can "throw the kids' dirty sports things in the back in the covered bed and not stink up the SUV after a game."  He has one child, age 3, no sports teams.

A carrier rack cargo top is out of the question?

1. toss is in the hatchback like the rest of us.
2. little kids' equipment doesn't stink too bad until they hit puberty so this guy will have used up his truck (and likely one more, given his non-MMM), before needing to keep any stink out.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1671 on: October 15, 2019, 09:24:47 AM »
This is not work but a family friend.

They recently came into a large windfall due to the sale of some rental property. They owe quite a bit of capital gains tax on it so are looking to doing a 1031, which is a decent idea. However, they apparently have a rich uncle who is a Harvard professor telling them that they should look into venture capital or private equity. These friends know next to nothing about investing, and are generally not great with money, so the wife asked me what I thought.

I honestly don't know what to say. I hate to give other people money advice, but I know that this represents the vast majority of their net worth. I just... well I don't know if I should say what I think or keep my mouth shut.

You should not advice people to put all their assets in the stock market. I think the general rule would be to only invest money in the stock market that you are comfortable loosing, or plummeting with 80% for a period.

Oh, of course not. I thought their original idea of doing a 1031 was fine, since real estate is an area that they are familiar with and somewhat knowledgeable about. However, they seem to be giving serious thought to the "venture capital and private equity" advice of this uncle because he's "rich and very conservative." I want to tell my friend this is a very scary area especially if you don't know anything about investing, but I don't generally give advice to people about their money.

If this is a friend, then I think it's appropriate to tell them that this seems like a bad idea to you and they should do a LOT more research, independently of the "rich and conservative uncle", before they decide to go down that path.

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1672 on: October 15, 2019, 03:24:08 PM »
This is not work but a family friend.

They recently came into a large windfall due to the sale of some rental property. They owe quite a bit of capital gains tax on it so are looking to doing a 1031, which is a decent idea. However, they apparently have a rich uncle who is a Harvard professor telling them that they should look into venture capital or private equity. These friends know next to nothing about investing, and are generally not great with money, so the wife asked me what I thought.

I honestly don't know what to say. I hate to give other people money advice, but I know that this represents the vast majority of their net worth. I just... well I don't know if I should say what I think or keep my mouth shut.

You should not advice people to put all their assets in the stock market. I think the general rule would be to only invest money in the stock market that you are comfortable loosing, or plummeting with 80% for a period.

Oh, of course not. I thought their original idea of doing a 1031 was fine, since real estate is an area that they are familiar with and somewhat knowledgeable about. However, they seem to be giving serious thought to the "venture capital and private equity" advice of this uncle because he's "rich and very conservative." I want to tell my friend this is a very scary area especially if you don't know anything about investing, but I don't generally give advice to people about their money.

If this is a friend, then I think it's appropriate to tell them that this seems like a bad idea to you and they should do a LOT more research, independently of the "rich and conservative uncle", before they decide to go down that path.

I sometimes get asked to but don't want to give specific financial advice (because of the business I run) but I'm happy to give out a few rules of thumb - do your research, don't take risks that you don't feel comfortable with, don't invest money you can't afford to lose, don't do anything you don't fully understand. Those rules are extremely obvious to us but not to everyone, and they won't do any harm.

cloudsail

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1673 on: October 15, 2019, 06:31:36 PM »
I sometimes get asked to but don't want to give specific financial advice (because of the business I run) but I'm happy to give out a few rules of thumb - do your research, don't take risks that you don't feel comfortable with, don't invest money you can't afford to lose, don't do anything you don't fully understand. Those rules are extremely obvious to us but not to everyone, and they won't do any harm.

Thanks, this is awesome, I'm going to borrow it.

Gremlin

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1674 on: October 15, 2019, 06:52:29 PM »
I sometimes get asked to but don't want to give specific financial advice (because of the business I run) but I'm happy to give out a few rules of thumb - do your research, don't take risks that you don't feel comfortable with, don't invest money you can't afford to lose, don't do anything you don't fully understand. Those rules are extremely obvious to us but not to everyone, and they won't do any harm.

The part I've bolded above is definitely a double-edged sword.  I know plenty of people who have invested in short-term cash accounts only because of this and run out of money in retirement as a result.

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1675 on: October 16, 2019, 08:05:20 AM »
Along the same lines there was a story in NY Times I read where they found that unemployed people look forward to the weekend almost as much as people working - this was also due to a lot of fun happens on weekends when more people have time to do it.

My retired friends typically have an active dislike for the weekend. Stores, parks, library, etc are all too crowded.

I already notice a dislike for visiting crowded areas in the weekend, now that I don't work on Fridays.

I acquired that feeling just from living in a smallish town.

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1676 on: October 16, 2019, 08:06:59 AM »
A minimalist-clean-freak-yet-consumerist friend of mine has told me that he wants his next car (he leases) to be a $70,000 pickup truck.  He works in an office all day, no calluses on his hands.  He wants the pickup because he can "throw the kids' dirty sports things in the back in the covered bed and not stink up the SUV after a game."  He has one child, age 3, no sports teams.

What do you bet that he flips out the first time that $70K truck gets scratched? A $5K minivan sounds like the better option. Put a hitch cargo platform on the back for the really stinky gear.

License plate seen on a Range Rover recently: "4thedog". Was worth a good chuckle. That happened to be what I was doing at that moment. Returning home after a vet trip.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 08:14:03 AM by Just Joe »

cloudsail

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1677 on: October 16, 2019, 09:15:11 AM »
I sometimes get asked to but don't want to give specific financial advice (because of the business I run) but I'm happy to give out a few rules of thumb - do your research, don't take risks that you don't feel comfortable with, don't invest money you can't afford to lose, don't do anything you don't fully understand. Those rules are extremely obvious to us but not to everyone, and they won't do any harm.

The part I've bolded above is definitely a double-edged sword.  I know plenty of people who have invested in short-term cash accounts only because of this and run out of money in retirement as a result.

Might be better to say don't speculate with money you can't afford to lose? Of course, then you get into what's considered "speculation."

Frankly considering how conservative my DH is, if we only invested money we didn't want to lose, we'd be almost entirely in cash and never be able to FIRE.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1678 on: October 16, 2019, 03:00:42 PM »
I sometimes get asked to but don't want to give specific financial advice (because of the business I run) but I'm happy to give out a few rules of thumb - do your research, don't take risks that you don't feel comfortable with, don't invest money you can't afford to lose, don't do anything you don't fully understand. Those rules are extremely obvious to us but not to everyone, and they won't do any harm.

The part I've bolded above is definitely a double-edged sword.  I know plenty of people who have invested in short-term cash accounts only because of this and run out of money in retirement as a result.

Might be better to say don't speculate with money you can't afford to lose? Of course, then you get into what's considered "speculation."

Frankly considering how conservative my DH is, if we only invested money we didn't want to lose, we'd be almost entirely in cash and never be able to FIRE.

I guess this isn't a perfect rule of thumb for mustachians as we tend to overthink these things: what's the difference between investing and speculating? What exactly is money you can't afford to lose?

The customer who most recently asked for financial advice was planning to put literally every single penny they had (a sum in the low 4 figures) in the stock market, through a so-called advisor. Some people literally need to be told they shouldn't buy stocks with the money they need to pay rent with in 3 weeks. The same goes for not taking risks you don't feel comfortable with - that doesn't mean putting all your money in a savings account is the best idea, but no amount of money is worth losing sleep over, and on the other side of the spectrum, if your gut tells you something is too good to be true, don't get sucked into something. Someone I know borrowed 30k to invest in some sort of pyramid scheme. So basically the level of financial stupidity I deal with can get quite high.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1679 on: October 16, 2019, 03:33:57 PM »
Was discussing kids with a coworker.  He said he and his wife give their 15 year old son $50 a week for lunch.  This is a good lesson for him because he has to keep it at $10 a day or less.  This is $200 a month on lunches....which doesn't include weekend lunches...for one child.  They will do the same for their daughter when she enters high school next year.  This same gentleman has not put any money in his 401(k) for years (3% match) because he can't bear to see the size of his take home pay reduced.  This man and his wife make close to $200k a year.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1680 on: October 16, 2019, 04:37:35 PM »
Was discussing kids with a coworker.  He said he and his wife give their 15 year old son $50 a week for lunch.  This is a good lesson for him because he has to keep it at $10 a day or less.  This is $200 a month on lunches....which doesn't include weekend lunches...for one child.  They will do the same for their daughter when she enters high school next year.  This same gentleman has not put any money in his 401(k) for years (3% match) because he can't bear to see the size of his take home pay reduced.  This man and his wife make close to $200k a year.
Good grief, what is this kid buying for lunch? At my kidís elementary school breakfast at the cafeteria is $2 and lunch is $3.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1681 on: October 17, 2019, 02:36:16 AM »
Was discussing kids with a coworker.  He said he and his wife give their 15 year old son $50 a week for lunch.  This is a good lesson for him because he has to keep it at $10 a day or less.  This is $200 a month on lunches....which doesn't include weekend lunches...for one child.  They will do the same for their daughter when she enters high school next year.  This same gentleman has not put any money in his 401(k) for years (3% match) because he can't bear to see the size of his take home pay reduced.  This man and his wife make close to $200k a year.
Good grief, what is this kid buying for lunch? At my kidís elementary school breakfast at the cafeteria is $2 and lunch is $3.

Yes, imagine these kids learning that this spending amount for lunch is normal. They will probably continue to spend that much when they start working themselves.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1682 on: October 17, 2019, 03:34:05 AM »
PTF

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1683 on: October 17, 2019, 12:05:36 PM »
Was discussing kids with a coworker.  He said he and his wife give their 15 year old son $50 a week for lunch.  This is a good lesson for him because he has to keep it at $10 a day or less.  This is $200 a month on lunches....which doesn't include weekend lunches...for one child.  They will do the same for their daughter when she enters high school next year.  This same gentleman has not put any money in his 401(k) for years (3% match) because he can't bear to see the size of his take home pay reduced.  This man and his wife make close to $200k a year.
Good grief, what is this kid buying for lunch? At my kidís elementary school breakfast at the cafeteria is $2 and lunch is $3.
The school lunch is between usually between 3-5 dollars but that's not cool.  Going out to Chipotle, Subway, or Taco Bell is usually the order of the day.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1684 on: October 17, 2019, 12:51:57 PM »
Was discussing kids with a coworker.  He said he and his wife give their 15 year old son $50 a week for lunch.  This is a good lesson for him because he has to keep it at $10 a day or less.  This is $200 a month on lunches....which doesn't include weekend lunches...for one child.  They will do the same for their daughter when she enters high school next year.  This same gentleman has not put any money in his 401(k) for years (3% match) because he can't bear to see the size of his take home pay reduced.  This man and his wife make close to $200k a year.
Good grief, what is this kid buying for lunch? At my kidís elementary school breakfast at the cafeteria is $2 and lunch is $3.
The school lunch is between usually between 3-5 dollars but that's not cool.  Going out to Chipotle, Subway, or Taco Bell is usually the order of the day.

Another good reason my kids take home packed lunches every day. We are just teaching them to brown bag it when they are adults too. :)

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1685 on: October 17, 2019, 03:57:58 PM »
A minimalist-clean-freak-yet-consumerist friend of mine has told me that he wants his next car (he leases) to be a $70,000 pickup truck.  He works in an office all day, no calluses on his hands.  He wants the pickup because he can "throw the kids' dirty sports things in the back in the covered bed and not stink up the SUV after a game."  He has one child, age 3, no sports teams.

A carrier rack cargo top is out of the question?

1. toss is in the hatchback like the rest of us.
2. little kids' equipment doesn't stink too bad until they hit puberty so this guy will have used up his truck (and likely one more, given his non-MMM), before needing to keep any stink out.

 Black plastic trash bag $0.30 vs $70,000. If you reuse the bag $0.15, $0.10 if you use it 3 times.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1686 on: October 17, 2019, 06:53:44 PM »
I'm new to Mustachianism, but today I remembered something that used to happen all the time at an old workplace of mine, which was on the 9th floor of a building.

Quite frequently, the elevators were out of order. So on those mornings, someone would send an email around the entire office saying "Forget Leg Day! Elevators not working!" I had to ask what this meant - they explained that they were telling people who usually go to the gym to work out before work that they could skip the gym for today and walk up the stairs instead.

Because you can't just do that every damn day????

(I thought it was funny at the time, but now I'm a Mustachian, I see just how crazy that is!)

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1687 on: October 17, 2019, 08:31:57 PM »
I'm new to Mustachianism, but today I remembered something that used to happen all the time at an old workplace of mine, which was on the 9th floor of a building.

Quite frequently, the elevators were out of order. So on those mornings, someone would send an email around the entire office saying "Forget Leg Day! Elevators not working!" I had to ask what this meant - they explained that they were telling people who usually go to the gym to work out before work that they could skip the gym for today and walk up the stairs instead.

Because you can't just do that every damn day????

(I thought it was funny at the time, but now I'm a Mustachian, I see just how crazy that is!)

With gymbros, my understanding is "leg day" means you are basically a cripple for the rest of the day because you went so hard that you are sore as hell.   In that case, taking the stairs up might be quite painful and you might want to skip leg day.

six-car-habit

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1688 on: October 18, 2019, 02:06:35 AM »
Does everyone check their work emails in the morning before they even get to the building ?
 
  I suppose if you don't check emails bright and early, you get to the building , the elevators don't work, you have to walk up stairs, just like everyone else...

  Maybe it was actually a humblebrag about the "notifier" working out that week ?

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1689 on: October 18, 2019, 02:19:31 AM »
"Why would we wash dishes when we can just use paper plates from Costco, amiright?"

No. No that is not right.

ETA: This was in reference to regular home use
FWIW, I have some relatives that have actually done the math of paper vs reusable plates, and it's not as clear-cut as you might immediately think.  When you consider the acquisition cost, the cost of water, electricity, detergent, and the time spent washing and putting away dishes, the gap narrows considerably.

That is some pretty funny math

1 Acquisition Cost-- can you imagine not owning a single dinner plate that is not disposable?  Most people have a set (as a gift usually) and then buy the paper plates too.   In reality, most people would buy a set of dishes for $30, and have it last 10 -15 years.  $0.01/dinner

2.  Time spent washing dishes is free because I don't pay anyone to do that for me.   When I am too busy (making money) they pile up or I ask someone else to wash them (for free).

3. Water  / Electricity  $0.17/load.  Soap $0.17/load = $0.34/load.   Also - do you buy plastic cutlery and how do you get the pots and pans clean,  serving items without running a dishwasher..?   What about cups?   

Plates, cups, cutlery (disposable) for 6 persons:$0.70.  (2 cents per plate, 5 cent cup, 3 cent cutlery, plus one trash bag at $0.10 per meal)
Cost to run dishwasher, plates $0.35

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1690 on: October 18, 2019, 08:53:06 AM »
Was discussing kids with a coworker.  He said he and his wife give their 15 year old son $50 a week for lunch.  This is a good lesson for him because he has to keep it at $10 a day or less.  This is $200 a month on lunches....which doesn't include weekend lunches...for one child.  They will do the same for their daughter when she enters high school next year.  This same gentleman has not put any money in his 401(k) for years (3% match) because he can't bear to see the size of his take home pay reduced.  This man and his wife make close to $200k a year.
Good grief, what is this kid buying for lunch? At my kidís elementary school breakfast at the cafeteria is $2 and lunch is $3.
The school lunch is between usually between 3-5 dollars but that's not cool.  Going out to Chipotle, Subway, or Taco Bell is usually the order of the day.

I'd love to see those prices at the school cafeteria... lunch for my kindergartener is 5$, and that includes a lunch like 'soup and grilled cheese' (I have a moral objection to paying 5$ for soup and grilled cheese).

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1691 on: October 18, 2019, 10:21:15 AM »
My dad is always astounded that he can pay $48 for a salad at a restaurant a couple of miles away where from families are paying $0.40 a day for reduced-price school lunch.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1692 on: October 18, 2019, 10:22:29 AM »
Was discussing kids with a coworker.  He said he and his wife give their 15 year old son $50 a week for lunch.  This is a good lesson for him because he has to keep it at $10 a day or less.  This is $200 a month on lunches....which doesn't include weekend lunches...for one child.  They will do the same for their daughter when she enters high school next year.  This same gentleman has not put any money in his 401(k) for years (3% match) because he can't bear to see the size of his take home pay reduced.  This man and his wife make close to $200k a year.
Good grief, what is this kid buying for lunch? At my kidís elementary school breakfast at the cafeteria is $2 and lunch is $3.

Yes, imagine these kids learning that this spending amount for lunch is normal. They will probably continue to spend that much when they start working themselves.

Worse yet, imagine these kids learn that $10 per lunch is being deprived, then start making their own money, spending $15-$20 per lunch, and wondering why they have no money left at the end of the month...

ysette9

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1693 on: October 18, 2019, 10:24:49 AM »
The school my kid goes to is high poverty. I donít know if that has anything to do with it or not.

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I was saying to my husband last night how odd it is that her school is a Title I in a neighborhood where every house is easily over $1M. Funny world we live in.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1694 on: October 18, 2019, 04:48:09 PM »
I'm new to Mustachianism, but today I remembered something that used to happen all the time at an old workplace of mine, which was on the 9th floor of a building.

Quite frequently, the elevators were out of order. So on those mornings, someone would send an email around the entire office saying "Forget Leg Day! Elevators not working!" I had to ask what this meant - they explained that they were telling people who usually go to the gym to work out before work that they could skip the gym for today and walk up the stairs instead.

Because you can't just do that every damn day????

(I thought it was funny at the time, but now I'm a Mustachian, I see just how crazy that is!)


With gymbros, my understanding is "leg day" means you are basically a cripple for the rest of the day because you went so hard that you are sore as hell.   In that case, taking the stairs up might be quite painful and you might want to skip leg day.


I work in a 20 story building and as soon as the weather gets cold I do the stairs from the lobby to 20 twice a day for the exercise. It kills me to see my coworkers take the elevator to go up 1 story but then talk about their gym workout.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1695 on: October 18, 2019, 11:19:50 PM »
I'm new to Mustachianism, but today I remembered something that used to happen all the time at an old workplace of mine, which was on the 9th floor of a building.

Quite frequently, the elevators were out of order. So on those mornings, someone would send an email around the entire office saying "Forget Leg Day! Elevators not working!" I had to ask what this meant - they explained that they were telling people who usually go to the gym to work out before work that they could skip the gym for today and walk up the stairs instead.

Because you can't just do that every damn day????

(I thought it was funny at the time, but now I'm a Mustachian, I see just how crazy that is!)


With gymbros, my understanding is "leg day" means you are basically a cripple for the rest of the day because you went so hard that you are sore as hell.   In that case, taking the stairs up might be quite painful and you might want to skip leg day.


I work in a 20 story building and as soon as the weather gets cold I do the stairs from the lobby to 20 twice a day for the exercise. It kills me to see my coworkers take the elevator to go up 1 story but then talk about their gym workout.

I fully agree with getting exercise in throughout the day (I'd never idle for 5 minutes just to get a parking spot 20 feet closer to the entrance) but I do sweat profusely so I can understand why some people would want to separate their job from their workout.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1696 on: October 19, 2019, 04:57:23 AM »
I'm new to Mustachianism, but today I remembered something that used to happen all the time at an old workplace of mine, which was on the 9th floor of a building.

Quite frequently, the elevators were out of order. So on those mornings, someone would send an email around the entire office saying "Forget Leg Day! Elevators not working!" I had to ask what this meant - they explained that they were telling people who usually go to the gym to work out before work that they could skip the gym for today and walk up the stairs instead.

Because you can't just do that every damn day????

(I thought it was funny at the time, but now I'm a Mustachian, I see just how crazy that is!)


With gymbros, my understanding is "leg day" means you are basically a cripple for the rest of the day because you went so hard that you are sore as hell.   In that case, taking the stairs up might be quite painful and you might want to skip leg day.


I work in a 20 story building and as soon as the weather gets cold I do the stairs from the lobby to 20 twice a day for the exercise. It kills me to see my coworkers take the elevator to go up 1 story but then talk about their gym workout.

Um... I find stairs really difficult with bad knees - multiple dislocations. I use the elevator. I still go to the gym.....

RetiredAt63

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1697 on: October 19, 2019, 07:23:09 AM »
I'm new to Mustachianism, but today I remembered something that used to happen all the time at an old workplace of mine, which was on the 9th floor of a building.

Quite frequently, the elevators were out of order. So on those mornings, someone would send an email around the entire office saying "Forget Leg Day! Elevators not working!" I had to ask what this meant - they explained that they were telling people who usually go to the gym to work out before work that they could skip the gym for today and walk up the stairs instead.

Because you can't just do that every damn day????

(I thought it was funny at the time, but now I'm a Mustachian, I see just how crazy that is!)


With gymbros, my understanding is "leg day" means you are basically a cripple for the rest of the day because you went so hard that you are sore as hell.   In that case, taking the stairs up might be quite painful and you might want to skip leg day.


I work in a 20 story building and as soon as the weather gets cold I do the stairs from the lobby to 20 twice a day for the exercise. It kills me to see my coworkers take the elevator to go up 1 story but then talk about their gym workout.

Um... I find stairs really difficult with bad knees - multiple dislocations. I use the elevator. I still go to the gym.....

Bad knees and stairs, oh my.  When I moved to an apartment one requirement was to be no more than 6 floors up.  I can evacuate on my own in case of an emergency.  Higher than that and I would be waiting for emergency personnel.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1698 on: October 19, 2019, 08:14:19 AM »
I fully agree with getting exercise in throughout the day (I'd never idle for 5 minutes just to get a parking spot 20 feet closer to the entrance) but I do sweat profusely so I can understand why some people would want to separate their job from their workout.

Ha - I often go on a brisk walk at lunch, and then if it's warm, take the elevator back up to my 3rd floor office.  The stairs push me right over the edge into profuse sweating after being outside.  Not a problem in the winter though, so I have to catch myself on the urge to be lazy once the weather cools.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #1699 on: October 19, 2019, 10:08:04 AM »
I'm new to Mustachianism, but today I remembered something that used to happen all the time at an old workplace of mine, which was on the 9th floor of a building.

Quite frequently, the elevators were out of order. So on those mornings, someone would send an email around the entire office saying "Forget Leg Day! Elevators not working!" I had to ask what this meant - they explained that they were telling people who usually go to the gym to work out before work that they could skip the gym for today and walk up the stairs instead.

Because you can't just do that every damn day????

(I thought it was funny at the time, but now I'm a Mustachian, I see just how crazy that is!)

This reminds me of my workplace, where my problem is that I cannot reach the 3rd floor (where my office is) from the lobby via the stairs.  They refuse to allow entrance, only exit, via the 3rd floor stairway door.  I have asked that they install a key card reader (we all have them!) to allow entrance only via key card, and they refuse.  I would LOVE to be able to walk up my 3 flights of stairs each day, but alas, I may not.  So I must take the elevator.  So silly.